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August 27, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 August 2021

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Vory v zakone

More from
The Week That Was…

_MINISTER MAYHEM: Brawl erupts in Armenian Parliament, bottles and fists fly
_United States AF B-2 Spirit stealth bombers have now progressed to the United Kingdom from Iceland.
_Delta Airlines to charge unvaccinated employees $200 monthly fee!
_France: Restaurants requiring Macron’s “Covid Passports” are empty. Tens of thousands of people have picnics in the streets smiling happily in family style gatherings.
_The entire 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division set sail, headed out to sea from Charleston, SC on a Sea Emergency Deployment Readiness Exercise
_U.S. is warning to leave certain gates at #Kabul airport immediately in a very specific warning.
_Mexico: Military helicopter Mi-17 crashes in Mexico. The head of Ministry of Internal Affairs of the state of Veracruz was on board.
_US Space Force Top Chief Seeks LIVE ORBIT War Games Ops. The newest US military branch has activated its space training and readiness command
_Leading baby food manufacturers knowingly sold products with high levels of toxic metals, a Congressional investigation found
_Rachel Maddow Weeknight Show to End
_Supreme Court says Biden administration must reinstate Trump’s ‘Remain in Mexico’ border policy
_YouTube removes 1 MILLION+ “dangerous coronavirus information” vids from platform
_FDA gaslights the world with FAKE “approval” of Pfizer vaccine while Biden presidency is collapsing
_Unvaccinated people have already achieved herd immunity, while the VACCINATED are now getting sick as their vaccines fail
_Now it makes sense: Biden wanted out of Afghanistan so his Chinese masters could take control of lithium deposits…
_DISMANTLING A CITY: San Francisco to suspend all cops, firefighters who refuse covid vaccines
_Trump booed at Cullman rally after telling supporters to take the ‘vaccine’
_Huge! Japan Recalls 1.63 Million Doses Of Moderna Covid Vaccine Due To Foreign Material Contamination
_SMOKING GUN: Fauci Admits COVID Vaccines Can Trigger Death
_Watch: Biden Handlers Cut Feed When Asked About US Actions After Aug. 31 Deadline
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August 27, 2021 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  Trump booed at Cullman rally after telling supporters to take the ‘vaccine’…
  
  This is a significant development. I got largely downticked for saying Operation Warp Speed was Trump’s biggest mistake, and one that could sink his chances for 2024. Certainly if by then there has been a “vaccine” day of reckoning, of which there are hopeful signs of a start already.
  
  The research doctors of integrity who always have been issuing concerns and predicting potential “unforeseen” outcomes, are now going full “told you so” as studies are getting published, and saying that the sooner we pivot to mitigating a “biological catastrophe” the better. If you only follow the MSM and the Ministry Of Truth, you will be completely unaware of this still.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Cinders as the ODT sees her:
  https://www.odt.co.nz
  
  I think she is out of favour with the South.
  Are we getting close to a criminal case for incompetence?
  
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  August 27, 2021 3:42pm
- curry4me
  
  Vory v zakone: So, Madcow is gone, and SCOTUS upheld the Remain in Mexico thing. Two bits of good news. I guess Prof Turley will be all over both of these. Thanks for posting.
  
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  August 27, 2021 6:43pm
Happychappy

A Essential worker shocked at being part of vaccine botch up .
This is absolutely disgusting and the buck should stop with the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, especially as you have only been informed by emails d told to stay in isolation.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/essential-worker-shocked-being-part-vaccine-botch-up
This from the most caring Prime Minister New Zealand has ever had according to many that support this Government and they can’t even get the small things right to assure people are ok when they have fucked up giving people a vaccine.
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August 27, 2021 8:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  the most ~~caring~~ dispairing Prime Minister New Zealand has ever had…
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:31am
- RW Capitalist
  
  re vaccine minstakes
  Impertinent question
  How in gods name, did a vile of saline find it’s way to within MILES of a DEDICATED vaccination station.
  1.The only viles there, should have been vaccine.
  2. Who injected these people with saline, without reading the label or noticing that this vile is different to the usual?
  3. Training of those injecting people with a vaccine?
  4. Thank god it wasn’t a vile of warfarin.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:44am
  - SoloView
    
    “How in gods name, did a vile of saline find it’s way to within MILES of a DEDICATED vaccination station.”
    
    Vaccine is diluted with saline.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:55am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      The vials instruct to record the Date and Time of dilution, this is aligned with the
      instructions in the Medsafe-approved Data Sheet
      
      From
      https://medsafe.govt.nz/safety/DHCPLetters/ComirnatyFeb2021.pdf
      
      Indicating that the dilution does not occur at the same place or time of vaccination.
      “record the Date and Time “
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:25pm
  - Romney
    
    I may be out of my element here, but I do use a lot of vacccines in livestock. Some, like Toxovax don’t come pre-mixed. In each box you get a bag of saline and two vials of powder. You have to draw some saline from the bag, inject it into the vial, mix it into a concentrate, then draw it out of the vial and inject the concentrate into the bag of saline. Twice. Then your vaccine is ready.
    
    One time, working fast in a cluttered environment, I ended up with a vial left over, meaning 250 ewes got a half does. Sounds like something similar happened here.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:24pm
  - Sacha
    
    Normal saline (0.9% solution) is a common diluent for powdered drugs – and it is non toxic to the human body. It is in everyday use throughout the world as fluid replacement and as a medium for giving intra-venous drugs.
    It is unfortunate that some 6-7 people received an injection of Normal Saline instead of the Vaccination Solution, but they will have come to no harm from it.
    Let’s not get over emotional about it if we don’t know the facts of the matter.
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:47pm
- Paulus
  
  It is always the fault of somebody else remember !
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:01am
- Ra Henare
  
  It occurs to me that to get better vax rates in NZ
  
  and address those scared of the experimental fizzer
  
  and help build our relationship with China 🙂
  
  That NZ should obtain ASAP Sinovac Vaxs
  as they are the old fashioned way of producing vaxs…. ie not the experimental stuff
  
  WHO says
  Efficacy is 51% for preventing symptomatic disease & 100% for preventing hospitalization.
  
  But of course all those who watch and read Western news will poh pooh them as not better than sea water.
  Of course that is BS.
  Take the political lens off..
  Get a workable solution
  and think of the children(ie kids of anti vaxers)
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:29am
  - curry4me
    
    Ra Henare: I wouldn’t offer that one to Hitler, Stalin, or Mao if they were still alive.
    
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    August 27, 2021 6:46pm
- riffer
  
  Somebody very low down in the chain fucked up, and did not follow the rules that were established to ensure things worked properly.
  And your reaction is that the Prime Minister should resign because there was this fuck up?
  You’re clutching at straws mate. Unless you can prove that this was somebody following an exact process that the Prime Minister had control over and that the process was deliberately created to cause a problem then you are absolutely dreaming.
  There are fifty things more important to worry about than this.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:38am
  - RockyJ
    
    The issue is not that a mistake happened. Even the best organisations make mistakes. The big issue is that a cover up took place
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:11am
    - artemisia
      
      And that almost certainly an extra layer of checking has been added. Time and staff. Due to bad press, nothing to do with any actual danger to anyone.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:06pm
  - Nickc2
    
    The BUCK stops at the top! If her ministers can’t be trusted to do their jobs which includes managing those within the bounds of their portfolio(s) she should not have appointed them.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:45am
  - I remember when
    
    Cave Creek
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:35pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    So what you’re saying is, the appalling vaccine rollout, which is close to (or at) the bottom of the OECD, isn’t even in the the Top 50 fuck-ups on Jacinda’s watch?
    
    Seems an odd way to defend your Princess, but I have to say I agree with you!
    
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    August 27, 2021 2:10pm
Scott

Catastrophe in Kabul as 60 people are killed in an explosion which appears to be linked with Isis and appears to include at least one suicide bomber. According to reporting 12 US troops have been killed in the explosion. This is a catastrophe that makes Jimmy Carter and the hostages in Tehran look small beer. They are literally carrying away the dead in wheelbarrows.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9928471/Severe-threat-imminent-terror-attack-Kabul-airport-British-armed-forces-minister-warns.html

Joe Biden and his generals had one job. To safely evacuate Americans and their Afghan interpreters. They withdrew the troops first, didn’t tell their allies and left everyone high and dry at the mercy of the Taliban. Apparently Australia had to send in the SAS to rescue their own people. Former Green Berets have gone in to try and rescue Americans. My sources tell me that our New Zealand forces are very concerned about the fate of Afghan interpreters that helped them. Of course we had to send our own plane to try and rescue our own people.

This is an absolute disaster for America and their president. He may survive this but only with the energetic help of the supine media. CNN is already moving heroically to spin this Biden’s way, saying that events are showing how true Biden’s warning was about the possibility of an attack. Biden was right! (According to CNN).
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/08/biden-proved-right-on-afghanistan.php

However the American people can see with their own eyes what a disaster this is. Joe Biden should really be in a rest home, not in the White House.
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August 27, 2021 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  Mark Steyn raises the question; “who are these guys working for? If they were working for the enemy, what would they have done differently”?
  
  Some of the best lockdown listening you can do
  
  https://www.steynonline.com/11619/who-are-these-guys-working-for
  
  I haven’t listened to the latest Steyn “Q and A” yet but it will be a humdinger
  
  https://www.steynonline.com/11646/countdown-in-kabul
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:22am
- RiP NZ
  
  Where are all you Biden supporters? lets see you.
  
  Weak men create hard times
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:24am
  - dcrane
    
    There never were any. Just anti-Trump votes and hardcore fans wanting to prop up Obama’s legacy.
    
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    August 27, 2021 8:32am
  - PhilBest
    
    Good point. Is anyone really a “Biden supporter” or are they really only a “make conservatives eat dirt” supporter, and any puppet in the White House will do, as long as the right radicals are really running things.
    
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    August 27, 2021 8:47am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      The 10 best things about Biden:
      
      1. His history of personal tragedy has made him someone of huge empathy, who genuinely cares for others.
      2. He is kind and decent, as seen by what he did for Brayden Harrington
      3. He is not one of those politicians that encourages people to hate the other side. In fact he has a long record of working with Republicans, and if anyone can work across party lines, it is Biden.
      4. He is instinctively far removed from the woke activists who are pushing cancel culture etc.
      5. He is vastly experienced in Government, both as a Senator and VP. He may not inspire, but he will be competent.
      6. He is down to earth. For 36 years he spent three hours on the train every day just so he could be at home with his boys. Even as a presidential candidate he was often on the train.
      7. He believes in a rules based international system, and will have the US join the TPP and stop trying to destroy the WTO.
      8. He will stand up to Russian aggression in Europe, and elsewhere
      9. He is a good negotiator, skilled at the art of compromise
      10. He will show the Democrats the best route to success is not extremism, but moderation.
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/11/ten_worst_and_best_things_about_joe_biden.html
      
      Oof.
      
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      August 27, 2021 9:19am
      - Charmaine Hawke
        
        Yes that post from our host has aged well, it turns out that aside from point 6 all else was projection.
        
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        August 27, 2021 9:46am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Yep, every one of those points was a lie, a carefully crafted media supported set of lies. How come supposedly experienced political people fall for such an obvious rewriting of history like that ?
        
        Biden always was a cowardly small time corruptocrat, widely derided in the senate and across Washington, and with a history of gaffes, racism, and lies. Then suddenly to fit with the Democrats desperate need to find someone to beat back the resurgent left wing of the party he becomes the next incarnation of Lincoln crossed with JFK.
        
        Even when he couldn’t and wouldn’t campaign the MSM did that for him, and the intelligence agencies conspired on his behalf (Russian bounties anyone ?), even when his rallies and get togethers produced crowds that might have reached 3 figures in some places, it was all part of the confidence trick that such a senile grasping old fool could out perform Obama in as few as a couple of dozen key counties countrywide to eke out a narrow electoral win.
        
        Anyone still certain that the election was “the most transparent and fairest ever” ?
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:00am
      - Liberal Cliche
        
        I was balancing on the cringe and eessh seesaw reading that.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:10am
      - CJames
        
        From his appointments and pronouncements so far, I don’t think “he is instinctively far removed from the woke activists” either. Nor is his record of working Republicans there.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:11am
      - NoFax
        
        Yeah that didn’t age well…
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:19am
      - Inandout
        
        CT, at least DPF allows his past errors to be shown, and not censored. After the latest complete and utter fuckup in Kabul with that explosion/s there is enough material here for Biden to be impeached, or stood down using the 25th Amendment.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:19am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        The inference that experience in Government implies competence may not be valid.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:28am
- Critical Thinker
  
  All hail the surrenderer-in-chief! ?
  
  The now undeniably worst pResident* and administration in all US history.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpHM3Lorx9w
  
  “The mission hasn’t failed, yet…I don’t care if you think I’m Satan incarnate… I bear ZERO responsibility” – Manchurian candidate Joseph Robinette Biden
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:25am
  - virtualmark
    
    Don’t be a muppet. The agreement with the Taliban was negotiated and signed under Trump.
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:24pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Downtickers can’t read … https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Signed-Agreement-02292020.pdf
      
      Who was the President on 29 February 2020? Biden? Was it Biden? I could have sworn it was some other former guy.
      
      Like I said … muppets.
      
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      August 27, 2021 3:19pm
- Simon
  
  All the TDS suffers would be apoplectic with rage literally shitting themselves online if Trump was in charge. But its all quiet because its their guy Biden, part of the system, who they talked up so much.
  
  Biden will take the blame. But the system is failing.
  
  They will start mortaring the airport next. NZ military should leave asap. If they have anti-aircraft missiles…..
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:34am
  - amospicton
    
    100% Simon – I have yet to see any serious criticism of Biden in the NZ media. Imagine if Trump had done this. Once upon a time I never doubted the integrity of what I heard – Philip Sherry etc were completely apolitical and simply told us the news. Now it seems all we get is spin, slant and opinion.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:21am
    - Crisplion
      
      What we get is hard leftist propaganda, pure and simple. Ardern is completely brazen and open about that. To qualify for taxpayer funding, media organisations have to sign up to all manner of woke bullshit.
      
      I used to mull over whether the worst PM in my lifetime was Ardern or Muldoon. Now it’s no contest. Muldoon nearly bankrupted the country financially but Ardern will bankrupt us politically as well. We are no longer a properly functioning democracy,of which a free press is an essential component.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:24am
    - Nickc2
      
      Are you trying to tell us Obama’s legacy was/is worth propping up? The jury’s not only out on that one, it refuses to hear the case FFS.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:04pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Embedded Journalism. Nothing more, nothing Less.
      
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      August 27, 2021 4:41pm
    - curry4me
      
      amospicton: Nor me until the mid 90s.
      
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      August 27, 2021 6:52pm
  - virtualmark
    
    I don’t like Trump, but he was right to pull US troops out of Afghanistan. That said, the deal he signed with the Taliban was poor.
    
    I’m neutral on Biden, but that means I’m not a hater like many here who are criticising him. Like Trump Biden is right to get out Afghanistan. The State Department has been advising US citizens/residents to get out of Afghanistan since February – but most chose not to. They chose poorly. It does look though as though State & Military weren’t coordinating. That is a cockup.
    
    There is no such thing as an elegant military retreat-in-defeat. To be fair to the US military, they did a better job of their retreat from Kabul than the British military did.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:42am
    - dcrane
      
      What do you mean exactly when you say Trump’s deal was poor?
      
      I don’t claim to know the details, but it seemed that Trump negotiated a deal in Feb. 2020 that involved the Taliban agreeing to a cease-fire while the US withdrew, with the final date set for May, 2021 more than a year later.
      
      Had the Washington and defense establishments honored that deal, I see no reason anyone would be left behind today. There was plenty of time for a coordinated withdrawal, first the civilians and then the military.
      
      Instead the defense establishment undermined Trump, the political establishment cheated him in the election (at minimum, with censorship etc), and they all sent mixed signals about withdrawal. They broke the May deadline, and the Taliban, who had been honoring the ceasefire, resumed the war.
      
      I agree the process has looked confused for some time. Probably within the state and defense establishments the left hand doesn’t even know for sure what the right is up to. Some maybe hoped they could keep a fig-leaf presence in Kabul to mask their failure and manage the dark projects from there for a while. Again, mixed signals. This is on the Washington political establishment as a whole, not just Biden.
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:05am
      - virtualmark
        
        It’s 5 pages long, read it for yourself … https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Signed-Agreement-02292020.pdf
        
        Part One (A) … to start the US will draw down heavily
        Part One (B) … the US will be totally gone by May (including the contractors who were supporting the Afghan Army)
        Part One (C) … the US will immediately release 5,000 Taliban prisoners
        Part One (D) and (E) … the US will remove all sanctions
        Part One (F) … the US won’t intervene in Afghanistan again
        Part Two … the Taliban won’t let Afghanistan be used as a base to attack the US
        Part Three … the US will invest in reconstructing a Taliban-led Afghanistan.
        
        It’s like the Treaty of Versailles, dictated by the Taliban. Neville Chamberlain would have blushed at this deal.
        
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        August 27, 2021 12:34pm
      - virtualmark
        
        I should add … I’m not sure Trump, or any American President, was ever going to be in a position to write a much better agreement.
        
        But even if it is basically a surrender document to the Taliban (note that the Afghan government weren’t even part of this agreement, it’s between the US and the Taliban) I think it was still the right step to take. One of my closest family members did three tours in Afghanistan. I’m glad they’re not going to have to do a fourth. There is no there there.
        
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        August 27, 2021 12:50pm
      - dcrane
        
        virtualmark those bullet points sound pretty good to me
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:32pm
      - virtualmark
        
        dcrane,
        
        I think it might have been better if the contractors supporting the Afghan military had been allowed to stay, and to only release the prisoners in stages as the Taliban re-engaged constructively, and not sure why the US should continue to invest in Afghanistan under the Taliban.
        
        But … we’re all armchairing this from a long distance and with next to no information. Meanwhile the deal is what the deal is.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:44pm
      - Scott
        
        Looking through the agreement it seems like a fair deal. Why virtualmark goes on about Treaty of Versailles and Neville Chamberlain is a mystery?
        But my explanation is TDS. Which is very catching and long lasting and for which sadly there is no vaccine. ?
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:58pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Oh Scott, always reliable.
        
        The reason I say it is like the Treaty of Versailles is that it is a surrender document. The US gets none of its stated objectives in Afghanistan. All of the changes the US has notionally achieved get overturned. The only thing the US gets is to go home. Bruised and battered.
        
        The victor writes the surrender document, and this agreement here reads like a one-sided document drafted by the Taliban.
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:33pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    “part of the system”
    
    This is what TDS, in large part, is.
    
    Trump was not part of the system, and in many ways he was anti-system. And those with their snouts in the trough, the beneficiaries of political money and power–in all parts of the world, mind you, since TDS knows no national boundaries–they hated him for it because they sensed instinctively, like all grasping trough-feeders do, that it spelled a threat to the cosy kleptocracy and proto-oligarchy they have set up, where elections make little difference, and the political class rules, skimming the foam from the torrents of public money they control.
    
    But they didn’t count on Trump, who despite his superficial flaws, pissed off all the right people and revealed them for what they are: gatekeepers for a corrupt, rent-seeking system.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:59am
    - Nickc2
      
      Too true IMO.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:09pm
    - miltonF
      
      Correct. Everyone loved Trump before he ran for President. The day he announced he’s running for President he became the devil incarnate in a world wide propaganda campaign.
      
      Trump is a free, self made made [man]. He answers to no one. He is the enemy of the “swamp” of corrupt trough feeders. This is why we have seen such unrelenting, biased misinformation attacks against him.
      
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      August 27, 2021 2:51pm
- JibberJabber
  
  FFS,
  
  U.S. officials gave the Taliban a list of names of U.S. citizens, green card holders & Afghan allies to grant entry into the outer perimeter of the city’s airport, prompting outrage behind the scenes from lawmakers and military officials.
  
  This level of incompetence can only be deliberate, not even Democrat Lackeys/voters can be this unintelligent…
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:53am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    The Biden admin has given the Taliban a truly staggering amount of military hardware. Including the names and bio-metrics of those we trained to fight them ?
    
    https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/1430963234845118469
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:23am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Basically the Taliban have got the Afghan Army gear. The US never supplied the Afghan Army with any advanced gear, knowing that some members of the Afghan Army were in the habit of selling it to the Taliban. The gear the Taliban have got is essentially standard infantry equipment and transport. I am pretty sure the Taliban would know who were senior in the Afghan Army and security services. They didn’t need the biometric data to know that.
      
      As for Biden, I don’t think history will judge him that harshly on Afghanistan. The whole Afghan project was already a busted flush, partly due to the Trump deal.
      
      The final exit, whether it was Trump or Biden in charge, was likely to have been a bit of a mess.
      
      To be generous to Trump, he may have held Bagram Airbase till the last, but that may not have been particularly useful, given it is 70 km from Kabul.
      
      Neither Trump nor Biden was going to embark on a major bombing campaign against the Taliban, though maybe Trump would have ensured that the private contractors supporting the Afghan airforce would have stayed longer. Would that have made a difference in the Taliban’s final drive (uncontested) into Kabul? Who knows.
      
      It appeared that the Afghan Army had stopped fighting anyway, thinking an early surrender without fighting was better than fighting then surrendering.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:05am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Bagram was the most defensible place in all Afghanistan, corridors of safe passage could have been negotiated with the Taliban, with threat of response for non compliance.
        (effectively Trumps plan…with the political solution added)
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:13am
      - NoFax
        
        Was this written pre-airport bombing or post-airport bombing? Any further thoughts?
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:21am
      - Fletch
        
        Really? A report breaks down the $85 billion worth of weapons that Biden decided to leave for the Taliban, including 110 helicopters, 20 light attack airplanes, 42,000 light attack vehicles, 25,000 grenade launchers, etc…
        
        https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/update-bidens-gift-taliban-included-110-helicopters-20-light-attack-airplanes-42000-light-attack-vehicles-25000-grenade-watchers/
        
        It’s sobering reading…
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:30am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It was never going to end well. The choice was between leaving or maintaining a permanent military occupation. Over 20 years and trillions of dollars, no miraculously modernised Afghanistan was going to emerge.
        At some stage the US was going to have to leave. So the political argument now now gets down to who was left holding the poisonous parcel.
        Bush converted a revenge mission into nation-building along the line of the ‘new American century’ guff. Obama took the advice for the ‘surge’ and the counter-insurgency strategy, and had no other answer when that failed.
        Trump talked about nuking the place, etc, etc, but at least made a commitment to leave. Then he and Pompeo decided to negotiate with the Taliban and ignore the Afghan government.
        Now Biden is left holding the bag for a messy evacuation, and rightly skewered for his optimistic talk.
        Political consequences for any of them – no. The evacuation and further american deaths will have as much consequence for Biden as the 1983 Lebanon attack had for Reagan in 1984.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:31am
      - Ruahine
        
        Mr Mapp.
        I cannot agree that it would have been the same re the pullout from Afghanistan. Yes Trump had a ‘deal’ with the Taliban.
        Trump would have made certain that they kept to it.
        In business you kept to the deal.
        Biden cancelled the deal. Reasoning. Deal was made by Trump.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:35am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Nice load of excuses for Biden there, why don’t you just come out and say it is all Trump’s fault and be done with it ?
        
        And did you see any of the Biden press conference, first thing he does is say “They gave me a list here, the first person I was instructed to call upon here…”
        
        WHAT ? they gave me a list ? So the press corps is still acquiescing to a completely staged process, they pretend to ask questions that they have been given to ask, and Joe reads off the pre-scripted answer to his own sides question. And the press just puts up with that ?
        
        That’s not a press conference, that’s a staged propaganda event.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:41am
      - David George
        
        Yes Fletch, it doesn’t matter whether the equipment was intended for the Afghan Army or US and allied forces. It’s all ended up with the Taliban now.
        Some great opportunities for enterprising locals though.
        https://babylonbee.com/news/taliban-opens-chain-of-us-army-surplus-stores
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:43am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Fletch,
        
        More than half the helicopters were Russian Mil 17. Half the Afghan airforce is now in Uzbekistan.
        
        Yes, the Taliban have a whole host of infantry equipment. But was there ever likely to be another outcome? Was the US ever going to go in and take all the Afghan Army gear or alternatively blow it up. The answer is no, whether Trump or Biden was in power.
        
        So yes, the final fall is calamitous, but it was probably always going to happen once the Trump deal was done. The most that Clark or Blair was proposing was slowing the fall.
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:47am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Ruahine,
        
        How would have Trump enforced the deal? A massive bombing campaign launched from Deigo Garcia?
        
        I don’t think so. Once US troops were out, he couldn’t have cared less about what happened to Afghanistan. In his eyes, a shithole country.
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:51am
      - Nickc2
        
        Wayne, I don’t see any Blackhawk Helicopters listed in the assets of the Afghan Air Force.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Afghan_Air_Force_aircraft
        Neither do I see any Blackhawk Helicopters listed in the assets of the Afghan Army.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Afghan_National_Army
        Now, given that the Taliban and their associates have inherited a sizable inventory of equipment gifted by the US via Biden, they have in addition to other things, 120 Blackhawk Helicopters.
        Providing they can fly/fight/maintain the damned things, who will they be used on? I’m sure they won’t be kept for the annual official Fly-Pasts to celebrate the day the Taliban defeated the US of A.
        
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        August 27, 2021 12:32pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        RWC, you were correct until you mentioned Trump. Trump’s Afghanistan policy was the same as Biden. The only exception was that withdrawal would have been completed next year. All the presidents from GW Bush to Biden are responsible for the shambles today. Trying to absolve Trump of blame is like Jacinda not accepting the shambles she has been creating.
        
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        August 27, 2021 12:58pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Wayne, during the week I noticed a photo of a Taliban press conference where the Taliban soldiers were handling their weapons exactly the way that Western armies do … barrel pointing downwards, finger alongside the trigger but not inside the guard, and so on.
        
        I wonder where they learned that?
        
        I don’t think there was ever much pragmatic hope of forming viable national institutions like a parliament, police, army etc. Afghanistan isn’t really a country … it’s a collection of individual tribal/ethnic groups, each ruled by a “warlord”, and with those groups coalescing into alliances that are always shifting and seething. People are connected to their tribe/ethnic group, but have little or no allegiance to the concept of an “Afghanistan” nation state.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:31pm
      - virtualmark
        
        nickc2,
        
        “As of June 30, the Afghan Air Force had 45 UH-60s, 33 of which were categorized as usable/in-country, according to the most recent quarterly report from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR)”
        
        In addition there was a separate Afghani “Special Mission Wing” that also had UH-60 helicopters, but unclear how many.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:35pm
      - Nickc2
        
        virtualmark @1:35PM.
        Thanks, I’ll pay that one. I wasn’t searching for UH-60. Cheers.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:50pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Some of the Blackhawks have clearly been captured by the Taliban, but I presume a fair number were flown out to Uzbekistan. I think the Taliban will have more success in keeping the Mil 17 in service given they are not as precisely engineered as a Blackhawk,
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:50pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        So Hullkiwi, which part Bidens “agreement”
        Insisted in joint govt. talks with Afghan govt. of the time.
        threatened retaliation if safe passage was not guaranteed
        Kept Bagram air base as the exit point.
        
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        August 27, 2021 4:39pm
    - curry4me
      
      Critical Thinker: Yes, they’re very grateful. They even made him employee of the month.
      
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      August 27, 2021 6:55pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Yep, “Hey Taliban person, here is a list of the all the locals you need to round up and execute, thanks “
    
    Even though we are enjoined not to blame on malevolence what can simply be ascribed to incompetence, what this administration has done strains the boundaries of incompetence to the point where malevolence and hatred (a hallmark of the left) starts to become a reasonable explanation.
    
    Surely they cannot ALL be so clueless and incapable ?
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:03am
    - curry4me
      
      Ed Snack: That list amounts to ‘giving aid and comfort to the enemy’; literally.
      
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      August 27, 2021 6:56pm
- surfing
  
  I wonder how long the taliban can keep those US helicopters running?
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:50am
  - virtualmark
    
    With Chinese help quite a long time. The Chinese bought Blackhawk helicopters in the 1980s and reverse-engineered them (surprise!) into the Harbin Z-20.
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:52pm
- covfefe
  
  Stolen elections have consequences
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:13am
rouppe

Still feel good about donating money to the Taliban, Jacinda?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/taliban-kill-woman-for-not-wearing-burqa-on-same-day-it-vows-to-honour-womens-rights/US3LE23D4I6TSERYSUEG5HO2SY/
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August 27, 2021 8:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  That’s quite a bit of bang for our bucks. Perhaps they forgot to read the Be Kind™ message on the lovely handwritten card.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:20am
  - Happychappy
    
    The graph that keeps New Zealand at the bottom of the pile in vaccines being given.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-comparing-nzs-vaccine-rollout-to-the-world/2HSRGSPZYC55PWAMWL5IUY2GI4/
    I wonder how many lies Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister will tell to try and discredit this.
    
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    August 27, 2021 8:26am
    - redeye
      
      Good God. Our definition of open and transparent seems to be quite different to the rest of the world.
      
      I wish I could tell you more about the country’s dealings with Pfizer, like how much was paid per dose and when they were purchased, as well as upcoming delivery schedules. Other countries have shared that information or it’s been leaked to local media. New Zealand’s Government has maintained that its conversations with Pfizer are protected by “commercial confidentiality” and exempt from official information requests and most parliamentary scrutiny. The only real information that exists is jabs in arms.
      
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      August 27, 2021 9:31am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      What an apologetic piece…
      
      That was then, this is now… move on
      His final piece of advice is to not get caught up on past decisions and to instead focus on the future
      
      Labour’s usual mantra when it has a major balls-up
      
      and of course: the finale… if it all turns to custard, it will be Team 5 million’s fault…
      New Zealand can still be the first country in the OECD to really aim for 100 per cent coverage. Not 70 per cent or 80 per cent, but everyone. That has little to do with the name of the government in power or the minister signing the cheques, that’s up to us.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:00am
      - Ian Hawthorn
        
        The only way to achieve 100% coverage would be by resorting to extreme police state measures.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:29am
      - Ra Henare
        
        The guy might be an expert in his field.
        But he shows total ignorance of human behavior.
        100% vacination in NZ is impossible!
        
        So every baby born will be immediately vaccinated?
        81% of Kiwis are over 16
        
        So if he meant 100% of adult population.
        It would mean forcing vaxs in to the arms of anti vaxers. Yep that aint gunna happen.
        
        So put him in the dickhead folder for advice.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:39am
- PhilBest
  
  I am suggesting that these “donations” are “protection money” the Taliban is levying on everyone who is getting people out. They will be creaming it. This is just a preliminary. They aren’t going to be letting everyone go. The hostage ransom racket will start in earnest next month.
  
  As Mark Steyn asks, if the US Administration and its generals were working for the enemy, what would they have done differently? They seem to be masochistically salivating in anticipation for the Taliban’s hostage ransom demands that will come for all the people they didn’t get out.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:26am
  - Master Mariner
    
    It seems to have close relationship to the Rape of Nanjing.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
    
    Whereby everyone is coralled into Kabul airport.
    
    Incredably dangerous times for all concerned. Not too sure where else anyone can go regarding Border.
    Do they try and get out through Pakistan or Iran if left behind.
    Great Job for NZ Airforce getting in and out. Kudos where its due, How long then can do evacuations for is anyones guess .
    As you said PB there will be a lot “bak sheesh” needed to safely release expats/Interpreters after Deadline by 31st.
    
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    August 27, 2021 8:59am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Oh Dear,
      Looking increasing likely NZ’ers and Visa Holders will require help from Oz, US if to be evacuated from Kabul.
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/livestream-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-and-chief-of-defence-force-kevin-short-give-update-on-kabul-airport-attack.html
      
      Looking likely + 200 remaining from News clip above.
      
      This is not looking like its going to end well at all with deadline looming at end of the month.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:31pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Hey Cindy, have you handed over that $1,000,000.00 to the Taliban yet?
        
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        August 27, 2021 12:56pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Latest updates.
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/total-betrayal-afghan-interpreters-shocked-as-new-zealand-ends-kabul-evacuation
      
      Will this be the Noose around Labours neck?
      
      Meantime every one is totaly consumed by ZERO Covid deaths.
      
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      August 27, 2021 3:57pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What else can you expect? The US military have yielded control so those remaining with guns take charge. SNAFU.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:34am
  - Master Mariner
    
    A good article outlining Pakistans heavy influence.
    
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/world/asia/afghanistan-pakistan-taliban.html
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:53am
  - rouppe
    
    Possibly. Though I’m not sure that the average uneducated, low iq taliban fighter will be able to recognize a female nz citizen while consumed with their righteous religious fervor.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:13am
- Simon
  
  Taliban recently committed to fighting climate change. NZ gubermint will be paying the Taliban to help fight “climate change. ”
  
  Climate change is of course an code for making payments to get NZ passport holders out of Afgh.
  The payments will go to third party suppliers like some fucked up UN agency. Who of course take their cut before passing onto the Taliban.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:40am
  - oldfella
    
    Simon, here’s a link to the Taliban climate change story.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9925087/Taliban-vow-tackle-CLIMATE-CHANGE-amid-civilian-executions-eradication-womens-freedoms.html
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:43am
- Gravelroad
  
  It was a cynical box ticking exercise to update a cv of someone with ambitions of a new job at the UN.
  There is no way that money can be justified, tracked or accounted for. Will it reach any women and/or children in Afghanistan?
  No. It was just a throw-away “look at me” moment.
  
  Are the nurses still begging on TV for more money for ICU beds at Starship Hospital?
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:43am
- Nickc2
  
  She’ll attack em with a wagging finger and no hugz. But she will be wearing a Burka.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:44pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    In all honestly Nick I sincerely hopes she does.
    
    Whether she gets the airtime I’m not sure.
    
    Looking between the lines thats possibly the only way NZ citizens / interpreters will get out.
    Too be perfectly honest I’m not too sure I’d like to be in NZ Aljazeera reporters shoes right now.
    
    Its really last resort from my limited knowledge but firmly see this as the only alternative.
    
    Its not looking good that’s for sure after all being “coralled” into the Airport as a “safe haven”.
    
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    August 27, 2021 4:53pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    “Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced on Friday his country has already completed its evacuation operations in Afghanistan.”
    
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/27/us-braces-for-more-possible-attacks-after-deadly-kabul-blasts
    
    And NZ Prime minister.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/total-betrayal-afghan-interpreters-shocked-as-new-zealand-ends-kabul-evacuation
    
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    August 27, 2021 5:10pm
Ra Henare

Last Year I was a fan of Facemarks to control the spread of Covid.

But like many things life moves on.
Now I am of the opinion that wearing a mask is more about virtual signaling rather than an effective measure.

Having spent a large portion of the last 18 months in SE asia were mask wearing was common pre covid(vehicle fumes are intense).
And living in compulsory mask wearing environment.
IT DID NOT STOP MASSIVE numbers of cases.
Looking around as one does I came across this article in Swiss Policy Research.
https://swprs.org/the-face-mask-folly-in-retrospect/

I especially like this bit……..
During the first year of the pandemic, several East Asian countries had a very low coronavirus infection rate, and many ‘health experts’ falsely assumed that this was due to face masks. In reality, it was due to very rapid border controls in some countries neighboring China as well as a combination of metabolic and immunologic factors reducing transmission rates. Nevertheless, many East Asian countries eventually got overwhelmed by the coronavirus, too (see charts below).

So, like Vaccine rollout. Is our MOH behind the 8 ball on mask mandates or
From Swiss research

Several political factors contributed to the implementation of mask mandates. First, some politicians simply wanted to “do something” against the pandemic; second, some politicians thought face masks might have a “psychological effect” and might “remind” citizens to stay cautious (if anything, it had the opposite effect: creating a ‘false sense of security’); third, some politicians used mask mandates to enforce compliance and pressure the population into accepting mass vaccination.

In addition, there was a vicious circle involving science and politics: politicians claimed to “follow the science”, but scientists followed politics. For instance, the WHO famously admitted that their updated mask guidelines were in response to “political lobbying”, not new evidence. The most influential lobby group was “masks4all”, founded by a “Young Leader” of the World Economic Forum (WEF).
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August 27, 2021 8:09am
- PhilBest
  
  I have had Swiss Policy Research’s “Covid Facts” page pinned to my taskbar since around March 2020
  
  https://swprs.org/%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4-19/?fbclid=IwAR1X_0_LoF2y9wjS1MrfLzA4ZVVNHwL-oJrz-F43DzobVZtf3VxGvobjnH4
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:28am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Likewise. Sane analysis, well evidenced data.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:10am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    This “Swiss Policy Research”?
    
    “In 2017 a University of Zurich report on media in Switzerland analyzed “six of the most-discussed ‘alternative media'”, including SPR, that “resort to conspiracy theories.” Daniel Vogler concluded that SPR appears to be a “a pseudoscientific media research project.”
    
    Andrea Haefely wrote a critique of the website in the magazine Beobachter in May 2020, noting: “The website Swiss Propaganda Research assumes that the Swiss media does what SPR itself does: feed the readers with questionable information.” She also suggested that the persistent use of the letter ß on the site suggests that the content creator is likely to be from outside Switzerland, as this particular letter form is not in common use within Switzerland.
    
    Christoph Neuberger, a professor at the Free University of Berlin, stated that while the SPR website attempts to present its message as objective and neutral, it is clearly political, and its content is pseudoscientific (“pseudowissenschaftlich”).”
    
    Seems legit…
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Policy_Research
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:49am
    - freemark
      
      Well I’ve been having a look at them since the unscientific panic driven debacle started. All links are cross-referenced & attributed. They have updated monthly on current situations as more information comes to hand. They openly state where stuff is opinion.
      IMHO far more credible than much of the twaddle we get served up as “truth”
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:49am
    - krazykiwi
      
      SPR deemed ‘pseudoscientific’ and ‘questionable information’ when, as freemark notes, everything is referenced.
      
      And the attack in SPR comes from Wikipedia. This is justification for you? Seriously?
      
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      August 27, 2021 2:00pm
- Simon
  
  “Now I am of the opinion that wearing a mask is more about virtual signaling rather than an effective measure.”
  
  Well it is an effective measure for the control of sheep. You must have seen the sheep outside wearing masks. Scared sheep.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:43am
  - PhilBest
    
    Hmmm, someone needs to work on a version of the famous “Whiffenpoof Song” for this…
    
    All together now:
    
    We are poor little sheep, who have lost our way
    BAAAA! BAAAA! BAAAA!
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:32am
- cmm
  
  The science around masks is pretty sketchy because it is very difficult to actually measure how effective a mask is.
  
  There is no way to actually measure whether masks stop virus particles, but instead, they measure other properties and try to draw conclusions.
  
  The effectiveness of a mask really comes down to how well it sieves out particles from the air stream. Most tests that do this either inject droplets or dust into an air stream and see how much gets through the mask fabric.
  
  The main problem with these methods is that they do not reflect real world conditions.
  
  The droplet tests are great for testing performance against large droplets (eg. someone sneezing directly in your face).
  
  The dust tests are great for testing dry dust (that gets filtered by static electric effects) and for some types of sticky dust (such as woodworking dust). Electrostatics are especially important for filtering very small particles traveling through relatively large weave fabric.
  
  But neither of these is necessarily an effective test for very small droplets of the size that can carry a virus.
  
  A virus is tiny: 50 nanometres or so. 10,000 in a line cover 1mm. A virus is so small that millions can fit in aerosols (the tiny droplets up to approx 10 microns across).
  
  If you want a mask that stops aerosols, the weave would need to be so tight that you might as well put a plastic bag over your face.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:52am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Also, the virus can get into your body through the mucous membranes around your eyeballs, so you need to wear airtight googles to be safe.
    
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    August 27, 2021 8:55am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    More likely 20K at 50nm each to stretch across 1mm.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:53am
  - PhilBest
    
    CMM, you are always one of the most astute commenters on KB. That is so right. ALL the “studies” that so-called “prove masks are effective” are nice tests in the lab using monitors in front of the test subject’s face, etc etc etc.
    
    And YET – ALL the “mask mandates” cannot show any measurable statistical improvement in meta-outcomes in real life.
    
    Besides what you said, which is absolutely true, the problem particles are the ones that are small enough to get through, there is leakage around the edges;
    
    ADD: any viruses temporarily “trapped” in the mask’s fibres along with moisture from the user’s breath, slowly “shed” into the air anyway with each exhalation. Those nice lab tests aren’t spending long enough and measuring “total buildup in the air”, they are only detecting the plume of “expelled particles”.
    
    Plus, the mask wearers have a false sense of security and go places and spend too long there, where aerosolized virus does build up in the air.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:39am
    - cmm
      
      If viruses are trapped in moisture in the mask, then that only works until the mast is saturated and the mask stops taking up water.
      
      NB By saturated I do not mean dripping wet – just that it has now reached the point where it no longer takes up more moisture. This is a large reason why masks need to be changed often.
      
      Once a mask is saturated, any ability to take up new droplets (and the virus particles therein) stops. For every droplet that is captured, another is expelled.
      
      All that humid breath that you feel when wearing a mask is made up of aerosols etc that are bypassing the mask or going through it.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:16pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Suggest you read the article which references many studies.
    https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:42am
Tony Stuart

Excellent piece in the Herald this morning from Claire Trevett:

This time round, the lockdown doesn’t only feel harder for all of us – it also clearly feels harder for Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

The handling of the Delta outbreak has come in for a lot more scrutiny and criticism than in the past. Judging from the very extended set-piece speech Ardern delivered today, that is starting to take its toll.

The introductory speech beamed out live to the nation was not about what was happening with the current Delta outbreak, it was a political broadcast.

It was an attempt by Ardern to defend what the Government had done in the past and justify things it might not have done.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-we-dont-expect-perfection-prime-minister-but-drop-the-defensiveness/BIA5FSJG5KTBS33HT3DCCGP7RM/

It would appear that the scales have fallen from Ms Trevett’s eyes in recent days. This is the latest in a series of stories which are unflattering to the Government and the PM. In this instance, the PM is accused of politicising COVID.

Yesterday’s recitation from the Podium of Truth was especially patronising. It was a lecture, not a briefing. Trevett is also calling Ministers out on what she describes as the “galling” habit that has developed in recent weeks of starting every session with “good news”. I mean it’s great that over 80,000 were jabbed on Wednesday, but in truth, that should have been happening three to four months ago. Instead the Government prevaricated, and instead of being at the front of the queue as Chris Hipkins boasted in November 2020, we couldn’t even find the bloody queue!

Cabinet faces a big decision today. But whatever Cabinet decides, the focus cannot be taken away from all the stuff-ups the Government has made along the way. This lockdown was avoidable.
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August 27, 2021 8:12am
- Benedict Yu
  
  A little humility would go a long way. Jacinda could say “I’m sorry. We should have ordered more vaccines sooner. Clearly, ranking 120th in the world is not ‘front of the queue’. I apologise on behalf of the government. We are going to order more vaccines and diversify our supply.”
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:20am
  - cmm
    
    Never going to happen. All she ever does is double down on saying she’s done everything right.
    
    She will, however “apologise” for things she had nothing to do with, and need no apology – like the Dawn Raids.
    
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    August 27, 2021 8:54am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Double down, I refute that, I’m going to push back on that, lie, obfuscate, deny, deflect, and blame everyone else. Pathetic, she is.
      
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      August 27, 2021 9:07am
      - Paulus
        
        Still 53% of the voters voted for her so she must be right.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:05am
  - I remember when
    
    The media has allowed the government to get away with the one vaccine policy.
    Where are the articles documenting all the vaccines available, the for and against results and the effect diversification would have on vaccine supply.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:04am
    - Ed Snack
      
      There are some reasons to have a one vaccine policy, much easier to sort out issues like bad reactions to a vaccine when the figures are not confused by multiple options.
      
      However what may have seemed like a good idea at the time should surely have been revisited and changed when supply chain issues became evident many months ago.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:08am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Agree Ed, this lot can’t even figure out if they injected the one vaccine we’ve got, or saline solution. I can only imagine what would happen if they had a choice!
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:30am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Yep all those countries that can actually have a system to track multiple vacines dont have a problem
        To expect NZ MOH to have such a system would be unheard of 🙂
        
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        August 27, 2021 5:25pm
- PhilBest
  
  What about the good news that almost all our dreaded Delta variant “cases” haven’t even got the sniffles or a sore throat, let alone needed to go to hospital? None of the really good news has ever been featured in our media or these official breifings, at any stage of this pandemic. I am still waiting for the discovery in March 2020 from cruise ship passenger antibodies testing, of what the real case fatality rate was, and the existence of asymptomatic infection for the overwhelming majority of “cases”, to be presented to a public who thought, and many of whom still do, that this is the Black Death.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:29am
  - Scott
    
    Agree Phil Best! We have got 277 cases including a one year old!!
    We should be terrified of this virus!!
    
    Except only 12 people are in hospital. No one is in ICU. No one has died. But still the whole of New Zealand is shut down.
    Does anyone in government have any sense of proportion over this?
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:27am
    - kowtow
      
      Has Coromandel been wiped orf the map yet by this hugely hyper deadly virulent strain?
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:13am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      generally takes a couple of weeks to die from Covid, and hospitalisation is generally more than a week after infection.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:46am
    - PhilBest
      
      And in this whole pandemic, how many people have ended up in hospital BECAUSE they followed the official advice about “self isolating” instead of THIS from Peter McCullough et al in July 2020:
      
      REDUCTION OF SELF-REINOCULATION
      
      “It is well-recognized that COVID-19 exists outside the human body in a bioaerosol of airborne particles and droplets. Because exhaled air in an infected person is considered to be “loaded” with inoculum, each exhalation and inhalation is effectively reinoculation
      
      In patients who are hospitalized, negative pressure is applied to the room air largely to reduce spread outside of the room. We propose that fresh air could reduce reinoculation and potentially reduce the severity of illness and possibly reduce household spread during quarantine. This calls for open windows, fans for aeration, or spending long periods of time outdoors away from others with no face covering to disperse and not reinhale the viral bioaerosol.”
      
      Hands up everyone who knows anecdotes from friends and relatives overseas, and reported stories, of people who ended up in ICU or dead after a couple of weeks in a small bedroom with no ventilation? My hand is up.
      
      The occasional case from MIQ in NZ and in Aussie too, that ends up rushed from MIQ to ICU, certainly has not been helped by the stuffy, cramped MIQ conditions. At what point do the officials become liable when concerned citizens and “fringe” experts have been trying to alert them to this?
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:48am
    - TS Child
      
      Very rough back of envelope math: 12/277 = 4.3%.
      4.3% 5 million = 216-217K. Our hospitals could not cope with that influx if it occurred over a period of say 3 months. The lock down is immensely annoying, but I think this is about resource management and we do not have the resources.
      The media are picking up on vaccination, but so far there is silence about this much bigger topic.
      There is also silence around the types of people getting sick enough to be admitted to hospital – underlying conditions, age. Small numbers and (appropriate!) privacy concerns mean we cannot discuss NZ cases. But we have worldwide data that could be discussed.
      The other really important topic that has failed to be discussed is the impact of Western lifestyles on health outcomes. Highly processed foods, obesity, smoking, alcohol (and other drugs), lack of exercise, lack of outdoors time, stress – all produce health outcomes that make people vulnerable to this type of illness (old age, even healthy old age, makes you vulnerable to, well, everything). How did we come to live in a society where a treat, by definition, means something that is bad for you?
      
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      August 27, 2021 3:00pm
- Simon
  
  FFS its always political. First lock down in March 2020 Ardern had a cardboard cut out of Savage behind her. Directly linking the lock down with a some dead Labo icon – who denied Maori access to social housing.
  
  Of course the around 10% of us at the time thought that the cardboard cutout Savage should be in charge ahead of the midwit.
  
  Its just taken that long for more to wake up.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:48am
- alex Masterley
  
  The sermon from the mount was rather tiresome.
  The payment to the mob, and now the payment to the Taliban all smack of a government whose priorities have become skewed.
  The 15 or so MPs in the lower reaches of the list and who sit in marginal seats and who piggybacked Ms Ardern into parliament had better start dusting off their cv’s.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:57am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Alex
    
    Only 15??? Try 30
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    However did NZ make a payment to the Taliban and for what?
    What Vote Item did that come out of?
    All parties to the payment should be made personally liable to repay this theft of taxpayers’ money.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:59am
    - kowtow
      
      “We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
      No matter how trifling the cost;
      For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
      And the nation that pays it is lost!”
      
      Kipling.
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:02am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        If it was a ransom payment on well defined terms and OK’d by the Opposition I may accept it.
        When you leave the people unguarded retrieval can be hard.
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:15pm
  - TWEEDSE
    
    Should be a pretty short CV those 15 labour MP’s have:
    
    Previous experience: teacher.
    
    Qualification: Bachelor of Arts.
    
    Life experience: none.
    
    Anyone want to give them a job?
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:40am
- Muttonbird
  
  Claire Trevett is a partisan right wing journalist. She is the Herald reporter assigned to the National Party and therefore must produce stories which they approve of in order to maintain her status with, and access to, them.
  
  Recently she has decided to head down the rabbit hole, and yesterday’s effort was a particularly hurt, foot-stamping piece, seemingly straight from the embittered pen of husband and wife team, the Soper-duPlesis-Allens.
  
  Most people will not read Claire Trevett’s article because they are behind the paywall.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:34am
  - JibberJabber
    
    LoL, ? ? Mutt’s overdosed on Jacindas’ Klownworld Koolaid.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:10am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Trevett’s a right-wing journalist, right Muttonbird? Perhaps that’s why she goes by the nickname Red Claire…
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:00pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is any enforced jab that the manufacturer disclaims responsibility for “good news”?
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:57am
- Maxx
  
  They have never been briefings – they always carried the tone of being lectured to from the adult who knows best.
  
  At 1pm (not that I have seen one in 398 days) I don’t need a recap of what everyone else has said, I don’t want an explanation as to why covid=bad and the rest of the world=stupid. I don’t need “medical facts”, certainly not from you Prime Minister who doesn’t understand 90% of what shit comes out of your mouth. I want to know what the government is doing, what the plan is, what metrics you will use to gauge and influence the decision – and I won’t even hold you to those. But let us know what influences the decision. Better yet, just fuck off.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:02am
- John Pakes
  
  Spoken like a true Nat.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:10am
Cinematic

The reality of an open Europe and USA will eventually force Jacinda/Baker etc to relinquish control. Covid will disappear from the collective consciousness of NZers in a matter of days. What feels overwhelmingly important now will become redundant. This is inevitable.

There will be no ‘new normal’, just normal. Those amongst us that lobby for ever more extreme limits on our rights and civility liberties will be disappointed. And hopefully embarrassed.
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August 27, 2021 8:12am
- PhilBest
  
  This is what I am telling, in a spirit of hopefulness, to some contacts who I worry might be a suicide risk. The health establishment is only interested in suicide-risk people who are scared of the virus – and even then, they are not interested in changing the messaging to try and reduce the problem. If someone is a suicide risk because of government tyranny on the basis of pretexts, the establishment regards them as an enemy and their approach to talking them round is not going to help.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:37am
- covfefe
  
  Remember Zika virus, anyone? And H1N1? Our societies have become so complacent and decadent that we make up things to be scared of.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:18am
Critical Thinker

Pfizer “Vaccine” is an Undeniable Failure in Israel

The deaths per million in “Fully Pfizer Vaccinated” Israel now surpasses that which India was experiencing during its “apocalypse” back in May. And Israel’s “Confirmed Cases” are also as high as they’ve ever been.

It sadly sure looks like we have been sold a dud vaccine. I’m sure this critical information and incredibly newsworthy story will be all over the mainstream media right now. Especially here in New Zealand… right?… right? ?
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August 27, 2021 8:13am
- Ra Henare
  
  Cherry picking is never a basis for a good argument.
  remember the good old adage
  
  Correlation does not imply causation
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:44am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Also note that Israel achieved 50% of population vax(2 jabs) In March this year. 72% of population is over 16
    By end of Feb they had double jabbed 80% of the over 60s.
    (and what % has NZ jabbed over over 60s in August 21)
    
    yes end of July the Israeli numbers started exploding…. Hence the rollout of booster shots.
    
    So for 6 months the vax worked as advertised.
    Even so. The deathrate has gone from under 2 a day 3 weeks ago to 25 a day this week.
    
    No I am not an Vax apologist or an Israeli supporter.
    Just get pissed off when people jump to wild conclusions on very limited data.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:55am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Says in here that the rate of serious cases in Israel is double for unvaccinated under-60s, and nine times higher for unvaccinated over-60s.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/24/why-is-covid-surging-in-highly-vaccinated-israel-and-what-can-australia-learn-from-it
  
  Do you dispute that? If so, on what basis? If not, what conclusion do you draw from it?
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:44am
- Maxx
  
  2.98 deaths per million is hardly cause for alarm unless your name in Jacinda.
  
  I would expect to see the number of deaths rise after a population is vaccinated and a country returns to normal. Even more so a country that is largely a test case for the rest of the word. And that’s the good news from this, is that Israel is providing valuable data for the rest of the world to understand what it will mean to keep living in a Covid world.
  
  Data is showing that those seriously ill over the age of 60 is 9 times less for those that were vaccinated. The other data is showing as well that a large number of the “spreaders” are those in the age group under 20. While Israel has an overall vaccination rate approaching 80%, the rate for those between 12 and 20 is around 58%.
  
  But of course it is much easier to just through a number up. I would rather be in a country that is largely vaccinated and going about our business.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:39am
- dcrane
  
  Stats like this are fraught. Everyone in Israel, almost, is vaccinated, and they have been encouraged to get back to daily life for several months. The coronavirus is probably being very widely spread with many (most even?) people now encountering it. Whereas in India, during their big wave they were in a big scare and many were probably still being very cautious. How then are to we judge these “deaths per million” across countries? We really need to know the exposure rate per million to compare them.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:25am
WaynelSexton

A very worrying trend in the UK

Since the beginning of July, all-cause deaths have risen 12% over 2020 and 9% over the 2015-2019 average:

59,877 (2021)
53,435 (2020)
54,716 (2015-19 average)

And the gap is widening. For the newest available week (Aug. 13) it was 16% over 2020

https://voxday.net/2021/08/26/the-science-lied/
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August 27, 2021 8:14am
- PhilBest
  
  Us lockdown skeptics always predicted this. People who did not intuitively understand that lockdowns had to be more harmful than Covid, are the same people who have been ruining the world forever. The suckers for utopian big government and “other people’s money” and “well-meaning” intitiatives riddled with unintended consequences that they are pathologically incapable of seeing. Hayek must be spinning in his grave.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:40am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Yep, and this image I found in April last year was very concise, A Picture is Worth A Thousand Graphs
    
    Somebody should also track down the paper published back in 2006 by a bunch of epidemiologists who pushed back on the Bush Administration’s proposal for lockdown as a strategy against future pandemics. They basically said it reversed all the science that had been painfully learnt in the previous century.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:44am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Perhaps the result of several factors:
  – psychological effects of confinement
  – lower exposure to sunlight
  – delays in surgeries and medical treatment
  – an aging population would play a part
  – lack of exercise
  – immune suppression due to chronic higher levels of anxiety
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:58am
  - PhilBest
    
    Immune Deficit really should be top of the list
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:50am
- dannz
  
  Just not even close:
  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000372/Weekly_report_mortality__W27.pdf
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:06am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    dannz,
    I read the first part of the attachment. I presume you intended that this to debunk Wayne Sexton’s comment.
    
    Be good if you actually said that in your post.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:11am
  - PhilBest
    
    “Adjusted”.
    
    Hmmmmm. Did they get advice from Hadley Climate Research Unit?
    
    This data is rather gobsmacking to have a quick squiz at down the years:
    
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:03am
- I remember when
  
  Didn’t something the same happen in the US during their first wave.
  The difference between the covid deaths and the expected/projected deaths was 2/300,000.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:16am
  - PhilBest
    
    This is something everyone should watch:
    
    https://archive.org/details/covid-19-deaths-a-look-at-u.-s.-data
    
    Covid 19 Deaths A Look At U. S. Data : Dr. Genevieve Briand
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  In Week #31 (ended 13-Aug) there were 10,372 deaths in England and Wales. The 5 years average is 9,102 meaning there is a 1,270 all-cause excess death count for this week.
  
  In Week #31 (ended 13-Aug) there were 571 Covid-related deaths recorded.
  
  This means non-Covid excess mortality for the week is 699. This is 699 additional people who have died from diseases including cancer, COPD and the like.
  
  Lockdown kills people.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Here is an analysis tool showing UK excess deaths by disease.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:15am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Are they doing postmortems to determine if the virus was the cause? World wide flu incidence has been ignored and every possible death attributed to c-19. It helps the insurance payments, the pharma industry and the socialist wannabe controllers.
    Too much propaganda based on very flimsy substance.
    
    Strangely the demographic incidence reported at the beginning on the Diamond Princess in Feb 2020 has continued throughout the world. C-19 is basically only dangerous to us 80+and few others. Only 1/4 x 1% of the infected died from the disease and co-morbidities helped that toll.
    
    Dissing available remedies like ivermectin and others to enhance a profit making situation is virtually criminal. (Another to look at is Nigella Sativa seed oil which The Muslim Prophet said “cures everything except death”. Our RubItOn uses it as it does have some outstanding curative properties. Its seeds were found in King Tuts tomb.)
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:23am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I expect it’s not practical given the volume of deaths. Understand that. Related, I learned that across the ditch, the Victoria state coroner has a two year backlog to review unexplained deaths. The working hypothesis is that suicides there have hugely increased.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:38am
    - PhilBest
      
      Another gobsmacking new suggestion is based on the extraordinary low rate of Covid cases associated with dental care. Apparently the mouthwash they get you to swill around several times during your visit is highly effective against SARS CoV 2
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:08am
  - Happy1
    
    Krazy, what is responsible for the excess deaths is unknown but you enlist it to support your point of view. They equally could be unattributed covid deaths or from life shortening covid infection from last year. Surely Boris lost some life expectancy with his illness. I was concerned about a Dad yesterday becoming anxious about his pregnant daughter HAVING the FDA approved jab. Surely the risk of the jab pales into insignificance when compared to the risk of covid. God I miss Pharmachick. She had the authority to take you on but I guess she got sick of keyboard warriors scavenging the internet for outlier stats which supported their POV and decided that her mental well-being came first.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:49am
    - krazykiwi
      
      “She had the authority to take you on”
      
      Huh? I enjoyed discussion with her. I learned quite a bit. It’s not a battle, Happy1.
      
      As for the excess deaths, nothing I say will influence you, clearly. So do some research. I expect you’ll find credible work that demonstrates the net cost of lockdowns in terms of human life.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:33pm
      - Happy1
        
        Krazy, NZ and Australia have a death deficit. i.e our deaths are considerably lower than the 5 year average. Yet we have had the same lockdowns and delayed medical treatment etc as the U.K. so lockdowns don’t lead to an increase in deaths.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:44pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Yet we have had the same lockdowns and delayed medical treatment etc as the U.K
        
        Utter rubbish. Do you even read what you write? The UK has been in a state of semi or full lockdown since March 20th, 2020. Unless you’ve not noticed we’ve been free to travel NZ, work, eat out, go to sports matches, visit the doctor etc etc.
        
        Every UK doctor stopped seeing patients in March 2020, and many still refuse to see patients today. The deferred cancer treatments run into millions. My London-based daughter has spent the last 18 months working from her lounge table, and went into her office for the first time last week.
        
        So no.
        
        The UK lockdowns are not the same as our own.
        
        Not even slightly.
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:07pm
      - Happy1
        
        Sorry reported your next post by mistake. Have a neph in Melbourne. He reckons their lockdown was/is pretty brutal. Cheers
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:22pm
Yvette

The left seeming not to be right –
Ardern said that showed “people are following Level 4 and we’re beginning to reach people who became infected since lockdown began”.
New Zealand recorded 68 new community cases of Covid-19 on Wednesday. On Thursday, 62 cases were detected.
Ardern said the numbers were “not necessarily unexpected” given the increased infectiousness of the Delta variant.
– https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/covid-19-spread-13-400-locations-interest-ardern

Whether the totals above are Ardern’s, the reporters, or media source, it appears they are vice versa according to Government health department information.
The difference seems minor, but is an ascending number not descending as intimated.

Media release – 26 August 2021 [Thursday]
There are 68 new cases of COVID-19 in the New Zealand community to confirm today.
Media release – 25 August 2021 [Wednesday]
There are 62 new cases of COVID-19 in the New Zealand community to confirm today
– https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-news-and-media-updates
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August 27, 2021 8:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Good spotting Yvette…
  
  Yep, each day so far there has been an increasing number of folk who have tested covid +ve.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    Of course when you lock people down, the first thing that is going to happen is anyone who has the virus will pass it to everyone in the same building. There was less chance of this if they were all just coming and going as normal. This is especially the case with Delta, and especially the case with climate conditions that are associated with less introduction of fresh air to indoors.
    
    In the case of crowded housing where some of the residents are essential rest home workers, this is officials unknowingly playing Russian Roulette. I fear the worst.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:12am
I remember when

Southland Express: Activity ‘unacceptable’:
Invercargill mayor Tim Shadbolt said the raiding of his emails would not be accepted in any other workplace.
The Invercargill City Cncl CEO Clare Hadley admitted she was wrong to share an intercepted email from Sir Tim.
Sir Tim said councillors might have the impression information was not passed on.
He would dispute this, as they would have no way of actually determining so.
A scheduled meeting, at which councillors would have access to former Dunedin city councillor Richard Thomson’s six-month review, has been cancelled due to lockdown.
A new date to be confirmed.
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August 27, 2021 8:17am
- Paulus
  
  Handle should resign as a breach of ethical standards.
  Must be a Labourite.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:08am
  - curry4me
    
    paulus: That won’t happen. Labourites tend to think ‘ethics’ is a county in England.
    
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    August 27, 2021 7:34pm
info@cruzpro.com

Been convicted and locked up for an undermined amount of time without a trial or the possibility of release on bail.
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August 27, 2021 8:17am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  They won’t even allow a lawyer to visit me. Isn’t that part of the law? No trial date yet.
  
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  August 27, 2021 6:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Latest review on the airborne transmission of respiratory viruses

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6558/eabd9149?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Twitter

Get outside into the sunshine folks:
UV radiation
Irradiation with UV light has long been established as an effective approach to inactivate airborne viruses, including influenza virus (127, 140), SARS-CoV, and other human coronaviruses (141). UV radiation rapidly inactivates SARS-CoV-2 in bulk culture medium (142) and in aerosols (47) at wavelengths found in ground-level sunlight. UV radiation damages genetic material, leading to inactivation of the virus (143)
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August 27, 2021 8:18am
- Andrei
  
  As anyone with an iota of common sense knows (and this immediately excludes all politicians and bureaucrats) that exercise in the fresh air and sunshine is just the thing to get your immune system into tip top working order.
  
  And that confining people indoors and forcing them to breath through a face mask which rapidly becomes a warm damp “petrie dish” ideal for breeding colonies of bacteria is a good way of
  producing large numbers of sickly, depressed people
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:37am
- I remember when
  
  TV1 Reporter in Australia:
  “Not a single recorded case of ‘outdoor’ transmission in NSW since the pandemic began.
  Confirmed NSW Covid cases as at 26/8/21 stood at 21,471.
  So as the five leading members of the Assn for Aerosol research said, in an open letter to the German government and state premiers, 11 April, 2021,;
  “The transmission of SARS-Cov-2 viruses takes place indoors almost without exception.
  Transmission outdoors is exceptionally rare and never leads to cluster infections.”
  So why are the police wasting time stopping motorists.
  Why can’t you go fishing, to your holiday batch or surfing.
  It’s because the government is worried about themselves – not us.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    “So why are the police wasting time stopping motorists.”
    
    Worse, why are the Police going “full Robocop” on people who are merely outdoors? “Non essentially”, for “too long”, too “far from home”, not wearing a mask, etc etc?
    
    There is video footage out there that should flip any decent human being into a state of screaming outrage. Big Tech is flat-out removing it, it is hard to find a lot of it without someone specifically sharing a link with you to something on Odysee, Rumble, Brighteon, BitChute, etc
    
    A fleeing guy on foot, being run over by a patrol car and flying through the air. An elderly man collapsing with convulsions during his arrest and his wife being forcibly restrained from slipping his essential medication into his mouth. 12 and 13 year old girls being pepper sprayed, handcuffed and carted off not in a patrol car, but in a small cage in a riot control vehicle.
    
    But the worshippers of the tyrannical State Premiers just “approve” of all this! The divide between the outraged and the assenters to tyranny is civil war in the making.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:24am
- cmm
  
  It would be better if people “locked down” on the beach than sitting at home bingeing on Netflix.
  
  On top of the UV nobbling the virus, the other important thing is that it is boosting your Vit D – thereby boosting your immune system.
  
  The third major benefit is the feel-good of having a walk and being out in the sunshine. This counters stress etc which improves your chances.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:58am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The worrying thing is that I’ve been well aware of the action of sunlight uv on viruses since Cell Biology -1st Year Uni – 1970!!
    
    This isn’t New stuff….neither is the aerosol transmission of respiratory viruses…
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:12am
    - Taieri
      
      Let me guess…you didn’t attend Te Whare Matauranga did you?
      
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      August 27, 2021 9:45am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Hahahahaha…
        
        I did my undergrad at Massey (but it hadn’t been taken over by the Social Scientists in 1970s)….Some folks thought it was an Agricultural backwater…but the biochem, genetics, microbiol, plant physiol stuff I was taught there put me far ahead of the Vic Botany students when I went there for honours).
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:54am
    - cmm
      
      The biggest problem is that they’ve been pushing this “Covid is different” nonsense forever.
      
      One for the first “facts” that they pushed is that the SarsCov2 only travels in large drops and not aerosols – hence the 1 to 2 metre social distancing, giving space for the drops to fall on the ground.
      
      This “large drop” nonsense also pushes the whole thing with masks.
      
      So much of the response is based on false foundations and oversimplifications.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:31am
      - Taieri
        
        So much of the response is based on false foundations and oversimplifications
        ———————
        
        No apparent criteria in decision making are evident. It seems that all decisions are made on an impulse. Be it on a whim of an “expert”, without any rational foundation or in response to political rather than scientific requirements. What’s particularly striking is the complete absence of any public debate on the best approach to tackle the current issues. What we get instead is a show, with daily performances by whoever is the star of the day. I won’t mention the lack of any cost-benefit analysis as that would be too much to expect from the current crop of our betters.
        
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        August 27, 2021 10:59am
      - PhilBest
        
        Yep, I have commented many times, they NEED the contact, droplets, surfaces hypothesis to justify tyranny.
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Sunlight does marvels.
  Others are those plants like blueberries. The fresh frozen ones are better than none. Easy to use: take them whole or bizz them and a little water and enjoy.
  Getting a load of fresh antioxidants in to help is the best on offer.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:30am
hullkiwi

Remember that gold plated contact tracing system that Ayessha Verral confirmed NZ had in her paid for report last year?

The report she wrote before she was confirmed as a Labour list candidate last year?

The report she wrote before she became a MP?

The report she wrote before she became Associate Minister of Health & a cabinet minister?

The report she wrote in which she said it would be world class and gold plated with some further investment in people and training?

Well apparently, St Ash and co. spent some more money,

but guess what?

NZ’s contact tracing can only work if they close down the telephone contact desks and transfer the staff of other government departments to work on contact tracing.

For the past week, in my work, I’ve been trying to contact 2 government departments only to learn, the govt departments concerned are not able to function properly. This is because a number of the said government departments have been transferred to work on contact tracing duties.

This is third world and banana Republic stuff.

You do not close down government functions to satisfy a political imperative.

I suppose it could be worse, I could be waiting for FatBoy Faafoi to approve a visa!
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August 27, 2021 8:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s called “public administration”?
  Sounds more like a 6 o’clock swill public house. (The govt has announced more public housing.)
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:34am
hullkiwi

How to wreck an economy 101.

Close down and lock down the country.

Stop all “non-essential” online shopping from NZ owned shops.

But allow

Australian and foreign owned shops and retail groups to offer online shopping to Nrw Zealanders. Dispatch ordered goods to New Zealand, and get local couriers to deliver goods to said locked up shoppers, living in their bubbles.

Oh well, I suppose it keeps the postal service and couriers in jobs, if nobody else.

What type of economy does Ardern and Robertson want?
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August 27, 2021 8:28am
- westernScientest
  
  dont forget print lots and lots of currency and pretend inflation isnt a thing
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:47am
  - PhilBest
    
    It brings “the Great Reset” closer. It hit me a few months ago that this is probably an inherent objective. We will need to be “saved” from the collapse of the monetary system of exchange.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:26am
    - Tricati
      
      Shit, don’t mention the ‘great reset’ to Robo. Isn’t that the subject he spate the dummy over on Peter William’s show and refused to go back on.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:50pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They want a communist Economy
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:11am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A command economy to their orders.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:35am
I remember when

Unvaccinated may not get employed.
The need for employees to be vaccinated to be included in employment packages.
Attendance at concerts will be dependent on producing proof of vaccination.
Ability to travel overseas may need a valid vaccination passport.
I could go on – WHERE WILL IT STOP.
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August 27, 2021 8:28am
- kowtow
  
  The New Normal.
  
  Government health mandates .
  
  And it won’t stop there.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:03am
  - PhilBest
    
    We need to stop using the term “the new normal” and call it “the new abnormal”
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:27am
    - kowtow
      
      Like with energy , renewables should be unreliables .
      
      Control the language to control the narrative.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:15pm
- Ehlana
  
  This is one where anti-discrimination law really should apply. We don’t discriminate against people who don’t want a flu vaccination each year, so why would we discriminate against people who don’t want a covid vaccination?
  
  Unless an employer can show that being unvaccinated poses an unacceptable health and safety risk, which is probably only if the person works with people who are very vulnerable to viruses. Do ICU staff have to get a flu jab? That would give you a guide.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:17am
- mandk
  
  What makes you think it will stop, Irw?
  
  In due course, drivers will be stopped by cops, so a government official can check their ‘vaccine’ passport.
  
  And soon after that people in brown shirts will be knocking on the doors of people where public health records do not show that they have been jabbed.
  
  And while this is happening, people who have been double or triple jabbed will continue to get COVID, will continue to infect other jabbed people, and will die from adverse reactions.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Unvaccinated may not get employed…
  Unlawful in New Zealand. Nu Tirani?
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:36am
- Plue
  
  I hope you are right that employers will refuse to employ unvaccinated people, as I work in a space that finds it hard to get good people, so other employers chucking away people for such a dumb reason will increase the pool of available talent for us.
  I personally think getting a vaccine is a good idea but I could care less if you don’t want one, that is up to you. If vaccines work then I don’t need you to have one too do I.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:45am
Maggie Pie

AN INTERESTING QUESTION……

‘Just how long can you safely keep using a Disposable Face Mask?’

Caller to late-night Talkback, claiming to be ‘Sione from Mangere’, …..tells host he is still wearing the same blue mask that was issued to him during the level 4 lockdown in March last year.
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August 27, 2021 8:30am
- Ra Henare
  
  Given that face masks are not the great protection that has been touted. I would put him amongst the sage money savers category 🙂
  
  https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:49am
- westernScientest
  
  its not very long….. If they get wet (from respiration or any thing else) they are supposed to be replaced. Im not sure, but I think in hospitals it is common for them to be replaced at each break, so probably every 2-4 hours. It is definitely more than once a day, because there were a lot of complaints from Nurses and Docs that they were only aloud one a day when there was a shortage last time.
  Different setting and different reason to ware one though I guess, more so you dont dribble in some poor guys open wound than so your aloud to buy food.
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:56am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep, discard your used face masks…
    
    https://www.greenpeace.org/aotearoa/story/where-did-5500-tonnes-of-discarded-face-masks-end-up/?gclid=CjwKCAjw95yJBhAgEiwAmRrutBNk1cJDEETFGMmKhlX8yLk6XdYucyPizKcq-wuGaR_Rgp4Lg5KeRxoCqCgQAvD_BwE
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:15am
    - westernScientest
      
      The irony:
      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-announces-plan-tackle-problem-plastics-and-seven-single-use-plastic-items
      
      do you think a disposable face mask will be considered a single use plastic bag for your face soon?
      
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      August 27, 2021 9:40am
    - JJ56
      
      Maggy
      Just in the category of useless information, but if you delete everything in a URL from and including the ‘?’ to the end, people will still get to the page, but give Greenpeace less information about how you originally got there.
      
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      August 27, 2021 6:58pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    I recall a study that showed that the way to make a cloth mask have a minor impact on virus transmission was to ensure a tight fitting mask, change the mask every 20 minutes using sterile gloves (or hand wash immediately after removing with bare hands), and immediate safe disposal in a sealed container.
    
    Not likely to be met in real world conditions.
    
    Just as a thought, are there any commenters here who support the use of masks ? If so, could you explain why, purely out of interest. And does anyone have a solid idea why this government is so insistent on their use ?
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:16am
    - PhilBest
      
      One of the reasons mask mandates don’t work in spite of the so-called “proofs” in lab one-off tests that they “do work” is that after a few minutes, the viruses trapped in the cloth, soaked in moisture of course, end up shedding into the air anyway. That is why they need to be washed every 20 minutes or thrown away and replaced with a new one.
      
      Then there is this:
      
      https://townhall.com/tipsheet/scottmorefield/2021/06/15/a-group-of-parents-sent-their-kids-face-masks-to-a-lab-for-analysis-heres-what-they-found-n2591047
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:30am
- JibberJabber
  
  I’ve got one in the console of the ol’ Holden that’s been there for 18 months, I drag it out every time I need to get a bottle of milk when we are under house arrest…
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:15am
Critical Thinker

The Bizarre Refusal to Apply Cost-Benefit Analysis to COVID Debates

Are those who oppose a ban on cars or a radical reduction in speed limits sociopaths, given the huge number of people they are knowingly consigning to death or maiming?

The quickest and most guaranteed way to save hundreds of thousands of lives with policy changes would be to ban the use of automobiles, or severely restrict their usage to those authorized by the state on the ground of essential need, or at least lower the nationwide speed limit. Any of those policies would immediately prevent huge numbers of human beings from dying.

Is it because most people are just sociopaths who do not care about the huge number of lives lost by the driving policies they support, and are perfectly happy to watch people die or be permanently maimed as long as their convenience is not impeded? Is it because they do not assign value to the lives of other people, and therefore knowingly support policies — allowing anyone above 15 years old to drive, at high speeds — that will kill many children along with adults?

When making public policy choices, we do not examine only one side of the ledger, but also consider the immense costs generated by policies that would prevent those deaths. We never opt for a society-altering policy on the ground that “any lives saved make it imperative to embrace” precisely because such a primitive mindset ignores all the countervailing costs which this life-saving policy would generate — at least it was until the COVID pandemic began.

It is now extremely common in Western democracies for large factions of citizens to demand that any measures undertaken to prevent COVID deaths are vital, regardless of the costs imposed by those policies. It is impossible to overstate the costs imposed on children of all ages from the sustained, enduring and severe disruptions to their lives justified in the name of COVID.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-08-21/harrowing-rise-in-deaths-of-children-due-to-abuse-or-neglect-during-pandemic

The richer you are, the less likely you are to be affected by these harms from COVID restrictions. Wealth allows people to leave their homes, hire private tutors, temporarily live in the countryside or mountains, or enjoy outdoor space at home. It is the poor and the economically deprived who bear the worst of these deprivations, which may be one reason they are assigned little to no weight in mainstream discourse.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-bizarre-refusal-to-apply-cost
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August 27, 2021 8:33am
- Critical Thinker
  
  What’s next for ~~South China~~ Australia?
  
  We are on the same trajectory at the moment it seems.
  
  Last year people would’ve laughed off the possibility of Australia heading down this path as a conspiracy, now we are living in it ?
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7F2An8Jbl4
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:56am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Australian Citizens Ask Taliban To Liberate Their Country
    
    As Australia continues to brutally enforce a total lockdown on their own citizens, the increasingly desperate population has reached out to the Taliban and begged them to come and liberate their country.
    
    …
    
    Australians then chose a representative to fly to Kabul and ask the Taliban army to overthrow their tyrannical government and usher in an age of slightly less tyranny.
    
    The Taliban are reportedly considering the request, and have promised a decision next month after they have finished embarrassing America.
    
    https://babylonbee.com/news/australian-citizens-ask-taliban-to-liberate-their-country
    ?
    
    [Please do not quote complete copyrighted articles. An exerpt is permitted, with the link for further views. Mod.]
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:10am
- PhilBest
  
  Another issue where this “moral” framework is being applied, is “systemic racism”.
  
  You can be married to a person of color and have mixed-race kids. But that is no exoneration. You have to support the abolition of the current system of reward to merit and effort “because it has unequal outcomes” – or you are a RACIST regardless.
  
  In other words, support communism or you are a RACIST. Destroy the system that provides economic growth and a bigger cake to share, just because there are different outcomes in different fields of endeavour, “by race”.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:34am
- JJ56
  
  For a NZ take on this, including some discussion of cost, read https://croakingcassandra.com/2021/08/27/costs-benefits-etc/
  
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  August 27, 2021 7:03pm
Liberal Cliche

BBC reporter dies from vaccine.

Lisa Shaw, who worked for BBC Radio Newcastle, died at the age of 44 in May after developing headaches a week after getting her first dose of the vaccine.

Newcastle coroner Karen Dilks heard Ms Shaw suffered blood clots in the brain which ultimately led to her death.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796
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August 27, 2021 8:35am
- Ehlana
  
  Tragic, but thankfully very rare.
  Condolences to her family.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    “First do no harm”. We have abandoned vaccines in the past on the basis of far less rare adverse events than we are seeing now. Of course some people say this is sad seeing a lot of “common good” might be foregone.
    
    So exactly who are the harsh utilitarian thinkers in all this? We could accept that a few years past 80 is when people do die, on harsh utilitarian grounds too.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:37am
Ruahine

To the Police Commissioner Andrew Coster.

I will be delivering NATIONAL Party pamphlets in South Auckland today.
Looking forward to making the acquaintance of some of your representatives.
P.S. Why is it that The Herald can be delivered?
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August 27, 2021 8:36am
- kowtow
  
  Like Maori fishing and food gathering , Labour have a hereditary right to break the rules imposed on the rest of us.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:35am
- Littletramp
  
  and couriers making deliveries left right and centre?
  Question – Can i go and get fish and chips (not sausages and chips or KFC – they are not seafood) under my customary gathering rights?
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:52am
  - kevn
    
    @LIttle… The local liquor wholesaler is doing great business delivering. Gave me a big thumbs up as he drove past today.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:09pm
- dcrane
  
  State propaganda is an essential service.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:17am
Maggy Wassilieff

Just how slow is our Ministry of Health in getting their A into G?

Hardly any saliva testing…

and no Antigen tests yet…
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/coronavirus-growing-calls-for-rapid-antigen-tests-in-nz.html
Director of Public Health Caroline McElnay said the Ministry of Health was looking into the tests.

“We haven’t yet provided a conclusion. The evidence is emerging around the world on that but we continue to keep a close eye on things.”
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August 27, 2021 8:42am
- Gravelroad
  
  A few years ago, a (left leaning) relative with a lot of experience working in government departments, was seconded to the Ministry of Health to work on a specific project.
  Although he/she had been looking forward to the job, they couldn’t get out of it quick enough.
  Said they had never worked in such a passive, inefficient, bumbling, poorly lead outfit.
  Nothing’s changed then.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:03am
  - westernScientest
    
    I know of a similar experience, about 2 months in the person when and begged for their old job in the private sector back and took a 20% pay cut to leave. They were a really miserable person for those 2 months as well, much better after they left.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:24am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    “he/she”? hiding identity or outing a hermaphrodite?
    
    10 0
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    August 27, 2021 9:42am
  - Tricati
    
    Wife worked a local DHB for a number of years as a clinician and also has a degree in Health Economics. Was at a meeting on effectiveness of Community Based Mental Health, and when she tried to explain why the MoH proposal would not work, she was cried down by some muppet from Wellington who said to her – And what would you know about the cost of the programme and how it works. Wife replied; I have 30 years as a clinical psychologist and hold a degree in health economics, so what do you bring to the meeting other than a bloody big ego. Wife left CDHB shortly after, as she got so run down by the bullshit.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:59pm
- lifesgood
  
  God they’re useless!
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:10am
- I remember when
  
  Forgot to add the ‘d’ – closed eye.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:47am
CAKE FACE1

Decision day.

Predictions?
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August 27, 2021 8:43am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m loathe to say it.. but I suspect All of the North Island will remain in some strict Lockdown… Perhaps ex-Auckland region will get a level 3.
  
  I think the S.I. will be Level 3 until at least Tuesday.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:21am
  - westernScientest
    
    you are more optimistic than me, im picking everyone at L4 till Tuesday, then maybe SI to 3 until Auc is aloud to move down.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:25am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Yes, the power game is too heady and exciting for Ms Ardern and her sycophants to relinquish quite yet.
    Might be a film in it.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:41am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      A walk to the scaffold?
      
      10 1
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      August 27, 2021 10:40am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    SI needs to institute MIQ for travellers from NI and de-escalate lockdown.
    
    10 1
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    August 27, 2021 9:43am
  - Paulus
    
    Did I not hear this morning on ZB that over 70% of the country want to stay at level 4 as they can be kind to everybody.
    And as long as somebody is still paying them it is a great early holiday and can continue without having to go to work.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:12am
  - lifesgood
    
    Yep. It will be the typical Labour government Friday dump.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:37am
    - curry4me
      
      lifesgood: This government takes a dump on the productive sector every day.
      
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      August 27, 2021 7:46pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Given that L3 has been described as “Level Four with takeaways”, I can’t see any point in dropping a level today, with only a few hours notice. What businesses will be able to restock in preparation for opening after 3.30pm on a Friday afternoon.
    
    It would be better to remain at L4 over the weekend, but announce today that everywhere but Auckland and Wellington can drop to L3 at 11.59pm on Tuesday.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:05pm
- westernScientest
  
  What are the odds a case suddenly shows up in chch just in time to keep SI in L4?
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:27am
  - PhilBest
    
    If they were to do enough PCR testing down there “just in case” you bet they could come up with a few false positives.
    
    Now now, I will be giving them ideas
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:39am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I reckon Level three for rest of NZ
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:48am
I remember when

PM: Cannot rescue everyone from Afghanistan in initial evacuation: RNZ.
“But, Cabinet planned to figure out what it could do once that was over.”
That’ll be reassuring.
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August 27, 2021 8:46am
hullkiwi

For those who have not been paying attention, the government has been going into overdrive to get Kiwis tested and vaccinated. And they do not stop with the lies.

The latest trick is to use an “employment lawyer”, who is not:
1. Up with her employment law versus the Bill of Rights; and
2. Up with her facts.

Interviewed by Ryan Bridge this morning:
1. The Bill of Rights protects Kiwis’ rights as to the right to refuse medical treatments;
2. An employer cannot make taking a vaccine a discipline matter on the grounds of keeping people “safe”. When it was shown this week, that nobody is safe when:
a) you can still catch covid even if you’ve had 2 jabs of the vaccine;
b) even if you go and put yourself forward to be vaccinated, there is no guarantee that you indeed were vaccinated.

So, sorry Jacinda and your spinners, that effort was a fail.
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August 27, 2021 8:46am
- krazykiwi
  
  Bio-fascism is on the rise.
  
  Refer Hamburg Businesses to Be Given ‘Choice’ to Bar Unvaccinated Residents.
  
  People need to wake up and see what’s really happening here. Those who have been carefully and deliberately terrorised by the state will be asked to accept this kind of new normal “for their own good”.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:26am
- PhilBest
  
  There are other areas of government regulation where tame lawyers do NOT win quick and clean in the interests of their clients, this is a long standing problem in RMA / development contributions cases. And activist judges not enforcing the legislation as clearly worded by Parliament, to require Councils to act transparently etc
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:41am
- Sacha
  
  Regarding the Bill of Rights: I remember watching a minor child die because the parents were members of a sect that believed that blood transfusions were forbidden by God (or something similar). They would only allow infusions of Normal Saline.
  A few years later an urgent court case taken by the Hospital Board on behalf of a minor, resulted in plasma being approved since the red blood cells were removed.
  And a young teenager with leukaemia was given authority to make his own decision as to receiving blood transfusions.
  
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  August 27, 2021 3:05pm
Klondike

I know they’re incompetent. The readers of this blog know the’re incompetent. What I want to know is when they look in the mirror, are they self aware enough to realise they are incompetent ? Or are they like a dog that see’s it’s own reflection and doesn’t comprehend it’s seeing itself ?
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August 27, 2021 8:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Na,
  They know we are suckas/losers.
  They look in the mirror and see WINNA!
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:23am
- Gravelroad
  
  @klondike –
  I don’t think competency or self awareness has much to do with it.
  The faithful and the advantaged are still clinging on to the power awarded to them by the media driven Jacindamania effect.
  In a few years time, when Ms Ardern has moved on, I think there will be many who will look back and say
  “What the hell were we thinking? How did we get so taken in?”
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:36am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  They have been half-arsing it their entire careers all the way back to school and uni (slacking off studies to do student politics). Of course they know.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:45am
- curry4me
  
  Klondike: They’re like the dog.
  
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  August 27, 2021 7:50pm
Greg Ettridge

The science is settled. my Bovine excrement metre is going off the dial.
On the NZ Health website
Face coverings – including scarves and bandanas
“If you do not have access to masks, face coverings such as a bandana or scarf are suitable options.
If possible, for extra protection fold a scarf three times before tying it.”
The same website then sends you to WHO for advice.
Homemade fabric masks of three-layer structure (based on the fabric used) are advised, with each layer providing a function: 1) an innermost layer of a hydrophilic material 2) an outermost layer made of hydrophobic material 3) a middle hydrophobic layer which has been shown to enhance filtration or retain droplets.
If you fold a material of lets say 10 micron three times, what particle size will it prevent transmission. These people have magical powers.
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August 27, 2021 8:53am
- westernScientest
  
  I might start using a loosely knitted woollen scarf….
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I bought a little cotton”scarf”/large hanky when I was at a Japanese Botanical Garden..It’s got leaf patterns of common Japanese forest trees on it…
    Pretty, but totally useless…. UNTIL NOW.
    
    It’s my face mask….and is in keeping with Kaiti fashion.
    https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/y/g/b/i/o/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240×700.1y7jtp.png/1578178452615.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=medium
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:16am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yep a lot of polypropylene outdoors wear is great too, I just discovered that the polyprop balaclava barely hinders my breathing at all
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:43am
- cmm
  
  That construction would likely perform very well in a typical lab droplet test.
  
  Unfortunately the droplet test is a poor representation of reality.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:01am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    You are correct, both are completely useless, the scarf is just a joke beyond parody.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:05am
    - alloytoo
      
      but a scarf is at least stylish.
      
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      August 27, 2021 10:08am
      - PhilBest
        
        Some of the masks that are popular in America include “Dont Tread On Me”, a Confederate Flag, “Trump 2024”, and “F–k Mask Nazis”
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:44am
    - cmm
      
      A thin scarf has been shown to be worse than useless.
      
      Thin scarves will actually break up larger droplets making reasonably inert larger droplets into far more dangerous small droplets and aerosols.
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:06am
      - PhilBest
        
        This is an interesting possibility for all masks, too, I hadn’t thought of that. A sneeze would produce many droplets that just fall to the ground. But if they are caught in a mask, they will gradually shed into the air in the form of aerosols.
        
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        August 27, 2021 11:46am
- Cinematic
  
  Science and statistics have been twisted to suit the covid narrative. Any rational person can work out a homemade mask is basically worthless. Except as a tool of control.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:02am
  - kowtow
    
    Neo Lysenkoism.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:04pm
- tf78
  
  Greg, handy hint for the ladies “burquas work really well”.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:24pm
Liberal Cliche

Latest report from UK Gov.

Not looking good…. 67% of delta covid deaths are among vaccinated. Vaccinated count for 48% of all cases.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf
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August 27, 2021 8:56am
- Cinematic
  
  You would expect this. The majority of vulnerable over there are vaccinated ie those on borrowed time due to serious health issues or simply old age. Clearly they are dying with covid not of covid. This has been the big flaw in covid death counting across most of the world.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:19am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yes but this proves that the vaccines “trials” did NOT prove they saved the lives of the vulnerable who are the precise reason we are destroying society “until we are all vaccinated”.
    
    Of the 45,000 volunteers in the Pfizer trial, of whom only 1% got Covid during the trial, how many of these were obese rest home residents with 2 or more comorbidities?
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:49am
- hullkiwi
  
  Tell that to Jacinda’s army of employment lawyers who are telling people:
  1. That employers can tell employees they need to be vaccinated;
  2. That after redeployment etc, and continued refusal by the employee, the employer can begin discipline processes to dismiss. Because the employee is clearly unsafe and breaching safe protocols.
  
  As the UK is showing, and as events have shown this week in NZ, there is no way of stopping covid. And we suddenly have self appointed people determining what is safe practice, and determination being made without any basis of fact.
  
  Jacinda and friends, you are a fail.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:25am
  - Plue
    
    I am not a lawyer but do know a bit about employment issues given that we employee 500 staff and I can assure you I would not want to be the person who finds themselves in court defending a decision to fire someone for not being vaccinated. Regardless of what the lawyers say I am pretty sure the employer will lose that battle and pay heavily for the privilege.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:56am
    - PhilBest
      
      You are relying on judges having integrity. Reiner Fuellmich’s attempts so far in court have got nowhere, regardless of how much evidence he and his witnesses bring.
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:51am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Exactly Plue. An employer arguing vaccination is a discipline issue, given:
      1. Legislation doesn’t support it;
      2. Employment contracts are very explicit as to what discipline issue is. Issues of vaccination do not fall into that category. If that was the case an employer could make climate change a matter of safety, and failing to listen to the employer a matter of discipline.
      
      Finally, as I said the case of the nurse at Middlemore and the “saline” vaccine would be enough to prove that having the vaccine is not a matter of safety at work.
      
      With that, I would have very little confidence in the Employment lawyer interviewed on the am Show this morning.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:18pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Agree, Plue. Like you I’m not an employment lawyer, but I’ve had more than a few years exposure now to those issues.
      Our Bill of Rights Act is clear on the right to refuse medical treatment. The Human Rights Act list of prohibited grounds of discrimination includes “the presence in the body of organisms capable of causing illness”.
      To make it a health and safety issue, you would have to prove that the non-vaccinated employee poses a sufficient health risk. I think that would be a hard ask.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:39pm
- cmm
  
  On the face of it, this is a pretty poor performance by the vaccine.
  
  But be careful about how you interpret statistics.
  
  While the UK population as a whole might be 48% vaccinated, the numbers amongst the most vulnerable (ie. those over 70 who are most likely to die) are over 90%.
  
  Regardless, 67% of deaths being amongst vaccinated shows that the the vaccine really isn’t as much of a life saver as it is supposed to be.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:34am
  - krazykiwi
    
    cmm, Table 5 does provide two age bands: <50 and 50+, so while this isn't perfect there is some distinction for age-related risk.
    
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    August 27, 2021 9:42am
- krazykiwi
  
  These technical briefings are data goldmines. I’ve been reading them all year.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:41am
- YesMinister
  
  It’s almost like the vaccine not only doesn’t work, it might even make you more susceptible from dying later on.
  
  Isn’t it wonderful that 80,000 NZ’ers are trotting obediently off daily to be injected.
  
  Also, isn’t it fun how suddenly, the majority of deaths being over 70 means the vaccine isn’t failing, whereas the majority of deaths being over 70 was completely ignored when it came to ramping up the hysteria around covid in the first place.
  
  The entire reaction to covid has been knee-jerk and hysterical. People rushing for the first “cure” that came along like complete idiots, believing the propaganda even though it keeps changing. First the vaccines were gonna stop the plague, then they were just gonna slow it down a bit. Now, oopsie whoopsie, better get injected with mRNA every six months forever!
  
  You couldn’t write this level of mass stupidity and dumb willingness to submit to anything remotely looking like authority. These people would probably do what a lab coat on a coat hanger told them to do, bleating “trust the science” the whole time.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:44am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You are misinterpreting the data. What is important is that the numbers of people who are dying have plummeted. So, in the last 7 months 652 vaccinated people over 50 have died. And 318 unvaccinated people. Most of those vaccinated people will be over 80. Going forward, as vaccination rates increase, vaccinated people will be MORE prominent in deaths relative to unvaccinated people, but absolute numbers will remain tiny compared to peak deaths pre vaccines.
  This is exactly what you would expect to see. This chart tells it all.
  
  https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths
  
  In January, deaths peaked at 1,297 on a single DAY. That compares to 390 deaths over the entire last 7 months. (See page 23 of the report you linked to).
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:45am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Benedict, the death rate amongst the unvaccinated has dropped precipitously as well. Now there will be some (unquantified) impact from the differences in age between the groups, but the current circulation version of Covid is apparently considerably less lethal. The drop in deaths is at best only partially explained by vaccination.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:26am
    - PhilBest
      
      Herd immunity from real infections. The elephant in the room.
      
      NZ is actually an important test case now. We have enough “cases” now to be able to tell that both vaccinated and unvaccinated people are not even getting the sniffles or a sore throat. What would be the mortality cost of letting herd immunity via Delta just happen, if people “don’t die anyway”? Especially through our summer.
      
      No-one even knows we have around 500 excess deaths every flu season. Delta could be the Covid variant in which mortality has fallen below the seasonal flu, even if it is more transmissable. There are plenty of highly transmissable viruses around the place that we don’t even bother to try and track, because they are not deadly enough.
      
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      August 27, 2021 11:57am
  - YesMinister
    
    That’s not misinterpreting the data at all. You would expect that a year on, deaths would be lower. The virus already killed everybody weak enough to be killed by it on the first run. You can’t die of covid twice. Now it’s having a second run through the vaccinated who have obligingly made themselves sitting ducks.
    
    If vaccines worked, and this were a deadly virus, deaths among the unvaccinated should be absolutely bloody skyrocketing, and deaths among the vaccinated should be proportionately lower. They’re not.
    
    Instead, deaths among the unvaccinated are what, oh right, a third of the deaths of the vaccinated. Twist it how you like, the vaccines are making this arguably worse.
    
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    August 27, 2021 10:26am
    - PhilBest
      
      NZ is an important test case right now because of low vaccination rates and non-existent herd immunity, which the Poms sure do have. This is an elephant in the room over there.
      
      If NZ has similar or better (I am picking better) survival rates in the unvaccinated, that would be proof that Delta itself is evolved in the direction of higher transmissability and lower deadliness and we might as well now just regard it like a normal flu or common cold. The transmissability is not an issue, the world is full of highly transmissable viruses that we wouldn’t ever waste our time trying to track.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:01pm
  - Plue
    
    A great many of the people who have died of Covid have been given and MMR vaccine, pretty sure that is the problem…. 😉
    I also understand that 85% of the dead had a cup of tea in the week leading up to their death from Covid, some researchers are cautioning against tea drinking until more work can be undertaken on this link.
    No one wants to become a statistic, refuse to die is the best option.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:00am
  - dcrane
    
    Yes, the vaccines appear to have broken the hard link beween cases and deaths. The vaccinated still catch and spread the virus, which is a big problem since it means resistance evolves, but at least the threat of overwhelmed hospitals is alleviated. It was that risk that was used to justify lockdowns. Lockdowns should be stopped after we get most high risk people vaccinated (i.e., over 40 or so). The border should be set to open at a date by which we will have accomplished this. Many ppl waiting will opt to be vaccinated when they know covid is coming.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:14am
    - kowtow
      
      A poorly funded hospital system will still barely cope.
      
      That’s actually situation normal for flu and rsv season almost every year .
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:06pm
      - dcrane
        
        Barely coping, even with periods of being overwhelmed, is better than Level 4 every few months. If you ask me anyway.
        
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        August 27, 2021 12:50pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Yep, especially when they spend all that time and money being woke…
        
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        August 27, 2021 5:26pm
westernScientest

sorry mods, wrong place
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August 27, 2021 8:59am
Scooter

Times are tough in Newcovidland, have to supplement their income somehow. I’m surprised they posted their photos.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300392527/elderly-woman-attacked-and-robbed-after-being-followed-on-auckland-bus?cid=app-android
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August 27, 2021 9:06am
- Scooter
  
  Morons. Smile you’re on Candid Camera!
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:34am
- I remember when
  
  Quite well dressed.
  Will the police solve a number of crimes if/when they catch them.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:40am
  - kowtow
    
    They’ll certainly be able to ping them for the heinous crime of not wearing a face covering on public transport , and the way the courts are these days that’s the offence that will carry the greatest sanction , not the robbery .
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:09am
- Gravelroad
  
  The guy looks like he needs another meth top up.
  No one else matters.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:01am
Tony

I was thinking the other day about which Labour politician I dislike the least.

My vote would go to Chris Hipkins.

He is undoubtably as incompetent as the rest.
But he always seems to be earnest and trying hard.

Unlike our glorious leader, he faces up to all the tough interviews even though he gets and absolute shellacking in most of them, especially with HDPA.
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August 27, 2021 9:16am
- RW Capitalist
  
  True idiots, have NO idea they are idiots.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:08am
- Biscuit
  
  A tad unfair, Tony.
  Jacinda will be fronting for today’s Announcement.
  And she will conclude by saying she’ll take questions.
  Jacinda: Tova…
  Tova: Have you considered…
  Jacinda: Naughty, Tova, that’s NOT the wording on the question I agreed you could ask…
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:14am
  - kowtow
    
    Even money on “out of an abundance of caution” being thrown in there somewhere .
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:10am
- Libertarians are right
  
  It’s funny. I actually dislike him the most. He’s the the most ardent anti-democratic person in the Labour party (basically every time Labour blocks transparency or accountability it links back to him). The main reason he doesn’t look as bad as everyone else is because he locks down information so nothing gets out. He also actively destroyed the Charter Schools, putting the futures of hundreds of kids at risk without even pretending to care.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:04am
- cmm
  
  I actually think Hipkins is not intelligent enough to fully understand what he’s doing/cocking up.
  
  It is very difficult to dislike someone just because they’re special needs.
  
  Still, earnest or not, he should at least realise that he’s stuffing up badly enough that he should step aside and give the job to someone a bit more competent.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:09am
  - Tony
    
    Who????
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:34am
- marcw
  
  I’d go for Mallard as the most disliked – he is enabling these Labour politicians and preventing the democratic process from exposing their incompetence and ulterior policy directions. He is single-handedly destroying the future of NZ, where we are facing an economic and social disaster.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:31am
- Prince
  
  I think I’d go for Mallard.
  Incompetence and opportunism is spread across all parties, but the Speaker has an important role in any democracy, to ensure policies are debated and views are aired.
  Mallard has effectively shut down the Opposition parties and zealously protects his Government.
  Despicable. And dangerous.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Without a shadow of a doubt the worst Speaker in my many years of following politics.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:33pm
  - I remember when
    
    Who does write all those letters Trevor receives complaining about ‘their being unable to hear Question Time answers because of all the rowdy interjections.’
    And, why aren’t they out delivering Labour Party pamphlets.
    
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    August 27, 2021 2:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

JOEVID-21 is the new Virus
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August 27, 2021 9:22am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Joe a few days ago:
https://rumble.com/vlpnqq-bidens-excuse-days-ago-for-failure-no-one-is-being-killed-right-now.html?
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August 27, 2021 9:27am
Liberal Cliche

Another journalist hospitalized with the *ahem* rare side effect of Pfizer vaccine…

This comes after Journalist Georgia Clark suffered the same *ahem* rare side effect.

Channel 7 reporter Denham Hitchcock has spoken from hospital after being diagnosed with pericarditis, a rare side effect of the Pfizer vaccine.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/channel-7-journalist-hospitalised-with-pericarditis-after-pfizer-vaccine/news-story/43e3d637eeea6827962aa973db8cda7e
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August 27, 2021 9:30am
Happychappy

The Waikato Times are reporting more dishonesty over Covid- 19 from the Waikato Council and the Government. Covid – 19 : anger follows news that Council staff withheld place of interest alert and took 24 hours before the Government announced details.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/300391755/covid19-anger-follows-news-that-council-staff-withheld-place-of-interest-alert
Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister and Ashley Bloomfield our Health Director keep trying to emphasize that there is people out there deliberately releasing false information , yet the withhold information themselves from people in the community and lie about it.
Time to drain the swamp in Government and Local Government, they they are paid by the people for the people to get answers not lies.
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August 27, 2021 9:36am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden on Al Jazeera now. ‘No collusion between Taliban and ISIL.’
Leopards do not change their spots – leopards will fucking kill you
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August 27, 2021 9:45am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  He’s doing the “it’s Trumps fault” 12 marines are dead and he’s shifting the blame.
  
  A classic liberal cliche.
  
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  August 27, 2021 9:53am
- cmm
  
  I think Joe is technically correct here, but so what?
  
  From what I have seen, ISIL are far more extreme than Taliban. They are not collaborating but are jockeying against eachother for influence/control/power.
  
  The mere fact that the ISIL feel confident enough to be popping their heads up just shows the situation is pretty unstable.
  
  Bottom line though is that another fight is not a good place for civilians.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:02am
Cassandra

Biden: “No-one is being killed right now”. Next headline: “12 Marines killed” followed by 60 killed in Kabul airport explosion”. Sadly, America is not well served right now.
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August 27, 2021 9:47am
- rangitoto
  
  Bring back Trump.
  
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  August 27, 2021 10:56am
- Bluegrass
  
  C’mon, man. That happened yesterday.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:15pm
thetiedarch

I see Stuff are running more interference for the Govt.

Reporting those having been fully vaccinated as a % of the ‘eligible’ population (those aged >12).

Gives a nice higher number to report 🙂
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August 27, 2021 10:01am
RW Capitalist

Listened to Bidens speech.
It
1. Tried to blame Trump
2. Rewrite of Obama’s red line
3. Current program of withdrawal including not using Bagram airbase (the most defend able position
in all Afghanistan) was a “consensus” of opinion.
(reminded me of an old saying “a camel is a horse designed by committee”)
also begs the question…NOT unanimous the, just a majority.
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August 27, 2021 10:06am
- dcrane
  
  And cut and ran rather than answer questions.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:08am
Critical Thinker

No Fear – By Rabindranath Tagore

Where the mind Is without fear
and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;

Where the world has not been
broken up into fragments
by narrow domestic walls;

Where words come out
from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches
its arms towards perfection;

Where the clear stream
of reason has not lost its way
into the dreary desert sand
of dead habit;

Where the mind is
led forward by thee
Into ever-widening
thought and action

Into that heaven of freedom,
my Father,
let my country awake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2g_5LOGRPg
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August 27, 2021 10:08am
RW Capitalist

Q:
They have been evacuating for about 5 days
They say they have evacuated more than 100000
ie 20000 per day
at about 400 per plane
thats 50 planes per day
2 per hour
at about a 5hr flight to the closest base (Doha).
so 10hrs to get back
Have they go enough planes and crew?
Logistics?
Starts to sound like BS.
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August 27, 2021 10:22am
- cmm
  
  Much less than 400 per plane on average. Most of the planes flying in and out are C17A Globemasters (carry 150 or so) and C130s (about 90 passengers). Of course there have been some flights where they’ve packed 0ver 600 into a C17A, but those are exceptions.
  
  If you go on flightradar24.com you can see the flights in real time. It looks to me like the rate is way higher than 2/hour during daylight and they are also flying at night.
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:24am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    and some are flying to Germany and other bases further away than Doha.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:50am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    I liked the comment I heard, on pilot said to the tower
    Tower: you overloaded, you will not be able to take off
    Pilot: Watch me.
    Hero’s on the ground, cowards in the White House.
    
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    August 27, 2021 11:52am
    - virtualmark
      
      None of the flights out of Kabul have been overloaded.
      
      The C-17 that brought out the more than 600 Afghans is built to lift a 60-ton tank.
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:39pm
      - cmm
        
        Yup, none are overloaded from a weight point of view. The average Afghani on the flight that took 800-odd probably weighs in at 60kg or so – far less for the kids so make that 50kg each. All up, 40T.
        Max payload for a C17A is over 77T, so this is hardly trying.
        
        It is fair to say that they were overloaded in terms of passenger count since the C17A with full seating arrangements (sides + pallet seats) can carry about 150. 800+ unrestrained passengers would have a tough time in any turbulence etc. It would have been a pretty unpleasant flight – but still better than the alternative.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:26pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        The C-17 can drop 102 paratroopers plus 8 equipment bundles
        we aren’t moving tanks.
        
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        August 27, 2021 1:35pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think the NZ C 130 is in Dubai. What happens next?
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:09pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/livestream-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-and-chief-of-defence-force-kevin-short-give-update-on-kabul-airport-attack.html
      
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      August 27, 2021 12:47pm
    - cmm
      
      It had flown at least three flights to Kabul (23rd, 25th & 26th). Since then it is hiding on a safe airfield for now.
      
      https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/nz7005/#
      
      I do notice that the planes flying into Afghanistan are now turning off their transponders and are not tracking over the whole of Afghanistan. The Stratotankers that were showing up flying circuits are no longer doing so.
      
      Perhaps the Taliban is getting a bit more organised and the Yanks aren’t quite as cocky as they were two days ago.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:41pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Being cheeky … it breaks down.
      
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      August 27, 2021 3:22pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Needs another ‘intake manifold’ …..
        
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        August 27, 2021 3:49pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Serious – they are old. Bit like keeping an Austin A30 alive
        
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        August 27, 2021 3:51pm
R

Some front line police are being removed from the front line. Do they have Covid? Have they broken the law? Are they refusing to be vaccinated? No, they have a beard LOL

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/126201029/bearded-cops-removed-from-frontline-during-covid19-outbreak
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August 27, 2021 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  Imagine having to draw up the rosters based on how much fuzz a constable’s bush has .
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Health and Safety. You don’t know where that bush has been
    
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    August 27, 2021 3:53pm
- Prince
  
  I trust this one is undergoing retraining.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=500ZuPauPX8
  
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  August 27, 2021 11:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How long before the Police see you on Skype, or any home video – at home, and come around coz you have no mask?? Will never happen? NZ Police are in the hallway ….
    
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    August 27, 2021 4:00pm
- crikey
  
  So? A mask cannot be properly sealed over a beard. A sensible procedure also followed by medical personnel (well, it is normal for the later to remove beards).
  
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  August 27, 2021 5:41pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Ah the cops found a way out of it hilarious. Just grow a beard bro and you don’t have to work around the infected.
  
  Very clever.
  
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  August 27, 2021 6:40pm
Fletch

The bill that Biden and the Democrats are trying to pass which will tax Americans into oblivion, including a combined corporate tax rate higher than China.

Trillions in new tax increases on working families and small businesses. This budget resolution is the first step toward the Biden plan to raise taxes by $3 trillion over the next decade. Some of these tax increases include:

◾ Increasing the corporate tax rate from 21 percent to 28 percent, which will be passed along to working families in the form of higher prices, fewer jobs, and lower wages. This will give the U.S. a combined state-federal rate of 32 percent, higher than our foreign competitors including China, which has a 25 percent corporate tax rate.

◾ At least 2 million small businesses will get hit by Biden’s tax hikes. This includes over 1.4 million small businesses organized as c-corporations, family-owned farms impacted by the repeal of step-up in basis, and pass-through organizations which would be hit by the increase of the top marginal income tax to 39.6 percent.

◾ Raising the corporate income tax rate will hit Americans with higher utility bills as the country tries to recover from the pandemic. Customers directly bear the cost of corporate income taxes imposed on utility companies. Investor-owned electric, gas, and water companies must get their billing rates approved by the respective state utility commissions. Therefore, if Democrats raise the corporate tax rate, they will have voted to raise utility bills. [Americans for Tax Reform has compiled 300 examples of utilities passing tax savings along to customers.]

◾ Doubling the capital gains tax to 43.4 percent, a rate more than double China’s capital gains tax.

◾ Taking away step-up in basis and imposing a second death tax by taxing unrealized capital gains at death. This will disproportionately fall on family-owned businesses. Taking away step-up in basis has already been tried and failed. In 1976, Congress eliminated stepped-up basis, but it was so complicated and unworkable that it was restored in 1980.

◾ Imposing a 15 percent minimum tax on “book income” that will disallow the use of important deductions and credits that help promote job creation and economic growth.

◾ Increasing the top income tax rate to 39.6%, a tax increase that will fall on small businesses. As noted in a recent Senate Finance Committee report, “… in 2016, only 42 percent of net business income in the United States was earned by corporations, down from 78.3 percent in 1980.”

◾ New taxes on American energy including a tax on manufacturers based on their methane production and a carbon border tax. These tax increases will be passed along to families and businesses in the form of higher prices.

◾ Creating a 21 percent global minimum tax, higher than the 15 percent global minimum tax the Biden admin is pushing other countries to enact. Because existing law denies foreign tax credits, this could see businesses pay a top rate of 26.25 percent.

◾ Repealing the deduction for foreign-derived intangible income, a tax cut that encourages businesses to house their intellectual property in the United States.

◾ $80 billion in new IRS funding to hire 87,000 new agents. This would allow the IRS to audit and harass small businesses and American families for an additional $787 billion. It would hire enough new IRS agents to fill Nationals Park twice.

https://www.atr.org/house-democrats-fast-track-35-trillion-tax-and-spending-spree?amp

I don’t see how the U.S can survive the Democrat party.
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August 27, 2021 10:39am
- krazykiwi
  
  The old fashioned socialists had balls. They bombastically and proudly nationalised businesses.
  
  This new breed of socialists are whimps. They micro-nationalise, one month at a time.
  
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  August 27, 2021 7:16pm
dave_c_

I’m gobsmacked !
It suddenly occured to me that li’l ol NZ, seems to have a never-ending supply of ‘qualified experts’ !
How many of them can there be ?
In just about every new news column, there seems to be reference to a new expert every day – all espousing (spouting) their own view of everything Covid. Bollocks to about 95 percent (perhaps more) of them.
I wonder if they are being remunerated with the largesse our govt seems to be throwing at all-comers, to further the Labour agenda.
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August 27, 2021 10:39am
- Ian Boag
  
  NZ seems to have a never-ending supply of ‘qualified experts’
  
  You only have to look on KB to find a zillion anonymous ones 🙂
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:14pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    You’d have to be a particular shade of stupid to believe that posting under your own name somehow makes you more intelligent, or gives your comments more weight. It doesn’t.
    
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    August 27, 2021 2:18pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      believe that posting under your own name somehow
      
      Not really. But look at it this way – if you were being interviewed on TV and you put your head in a paper bag and used a voice changer ….. uptake and acceptance of what you had to say might be a bit limited 🙂 Even if you were quite intelligent ….
      
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      August 27, 2021 6:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  X is the unknown quantity, spurt is s drip under pressure.
  Expert opinion.
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:43pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Maybe they stopped paying the old experts and these guys are giving freebies???
  
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  August 27, 2021 5:31pm
- crikey
  
  No surprise, there are many here on KB (just not being given official status).
  
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  August 27, 2021 5:44pm
dave_c_

Wow, what a fantastic opportunity for those police on the front lines, to opt out, and avoid the ‘danger’.
It is now mandated that Police officers who have a beard will no longer be selected for front line duty !
I can see the bins being filled with shaving gear, starting forthwith !
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August 27, 2021 10:44am
- curry4me
  
  dave_c_: I guess clip on beards of the Life of Brian type wouldn’t work?
  
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  August 27, 2021 8:04pm
greybeard

Anyone else hear Kate Hawkesby tear Ashley Bloomfield’s character and performance to shreds this morning?
5:24am
I am beginning to like this woman !
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August 27, 2021 10:50am
- kowtow
  
  HDPA also really down loaded on what she termed the dishonest , lying MoH , the other day .
  
  Scathing .
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/heather-du-plessis-allan-the-ministry-of-health-is-dishonest/
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:20pm
Master Mariner

Who else had a Niggling feeling before Lockdown was announced?
If so, Then well founded by all accounts.
https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/08/26/the-curious-case-of-the-time-travelling-japanese-embassy/
This raises a lot more questions and by all accounts is true.
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August 27, 2021 11:11am
- dcrane
  
  Perhaps they had the page ready to go and accidentally made it live too early. This happened once to me with a publisher – I had a manuscript version go live/public while still in proof stage. Google’s algos noticed…it was ages before the premature “publication date” was expunged.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:03pm
  - kevn
    
    @dcrane… You are too kind.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:36pm
    - dcrane
      
      Actually deleted the post after realizing the claimed Japanese page gave an exact date, which wouldn’t make sense under my explanation. The delete didn’t work apparently.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:33pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    By all accounts it was released in Japanese in Japan, Same page and times so seems “so far” unlikely.
    
    Definately warrants further scrutiny, That’s for sure.
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:20pm
Stu2

MoH has improved their vaccination reporting
One of the issues recently has been maori and pacific vaccination rates.

Halfway down the page is a table comparing their rates with the non-maori, non pacific rates by age band.

The two bands that have had the greatest opportunity to be vaccinated (50-64, >64) show :

Maori first dose 50-64 89% cf rest of popn
Pacific first dose 50-64 102% cf rest of popn

Maori first dose >64 94% cf rest of popn
Pacific first dose >64 88% cf rest of popn

So less than perfect, but not a complete debacle

——

Another interesting number is that >64 group who are at most risk, and have had the greatest opportunity to get vaccinated are at 82.3% for first dose (cf the estimated number of >64 year olds).

Looks like the high water mark for vaccinations is somewhere in the 80s

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
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August 27, 2021 11:11am
cas

Apologies if this has already been commented on in the myriad of comments but if you are short of reading, whizz off to the local 4 square or supermarket and pick up a copy of the latest listener. There is a fascinating article by Jane Tolerton on Kate Sheppard who seems to have been a master of spin and not really the only pioneer for women’s suffrage that she is made out to be.

Shock horror there were even men who did a power of work to secure the vote. Sadly National Archives and MCH with the Kate Sheppard House seem to be trotting out a false narrative.

Well worth a read. I expect loads of anguished letters to the Listener.
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August 27, 2021 11:15am
kowtow

Allister Heath in yesterday’s UK Daily Telegraph.

Four Mega Trends that Condemn the West to Irreversible Decline.

The West’s Kabul moment is different …….this time there’ll be no bounce back.

There’ll be many more Afghanistans.

The West’s 320 year hegemony is over.

Other civilisations will become as rich and powerful, just as in the past.

The 4 trends are;

the emergence of non democratic capitalism
the misuse of technology
net zero
the US’ and Europe’s ideological decadence.

Well worth a read.
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August 27, 2021 11:17am
- Adroit
  
  He failed to mention the most important factor of all – demographics. The saying demographics is destiny exists for a reason. By 2100 40% of the world’s pop will be living in Africa with 7 of the top 10 most populous countries in the continent. Does anyone think that some how over the next 80 years Africa will become the scientific centre of the world? I suspect not.
  
  Equally, while Africa’s pop will keep growing, there is not a single country in Europe that has a stable or above population birth rate for their native population. For that matter, Non-hispanic whites’ population in the USA is shrinking, and for the first time ever, has both decreased as a %, and decreased as an absolute number. The East Asians aren’t immune either – on current trends, China’s pop will have halved by 2100. They will go from poor to old having never reached a wealthy middle ground.
  
  Our hegemony over the world is coming to an end. We have been suckered in by destructive ideologues, and also rapacious greed from our elites. That’s the black pill that lies at the bottom of the bottle.
  
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  August 27, 2021 2:14pm
RW Capitalist

Bidens theme song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsep-_M03AA
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August 27, 2021 11:31am
- oldfella
  
  RW, a terrific musical… but in the real South that statue would have already been torn down.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kabul. “We will hunt you down” Really Joe? Really?
They were suicide bombers. You are going to hunt down dead people?
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August 27, 2021 12:05pm
- kowtow
  
  He’s such an idiot.
  
  The irony of being in kabul in the first place was they were hunting down the 9/11 crowd ,but that seems to be lost on Old Joe.
  
  Meanwhile the bosses of these loons are to be found in pakistan and saudi arabia , who again , ironically ,are “allies” in the war on terror.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:17pm
- Nickc2
  
  Hunt them down? Come on Joe, the pieces will likely be spread within a radius of 50 meters mixed with other human remains.
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:47pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwPBt5aBIiw

The Great Crisis of Social Democracy in Europe – VisualPolitik.

What are the reasons for the decline of social democracy? Why do fewer and fewer people vote for these parties? In this video we will answer these questions. [13:55. ]
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August 27, 2021 12:28pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrZr87V4rc

Medical workers in Greece protest against vaccine mandate.

We start things off in Greece,… where workers at public hospitals held a five-hour work stoppage on Thursday,… to protest against the government’s decision to make vaccination against COVID-19 mandatory for all health care workers in both the public and private sector. With the measure going into effect on September 1st, around 300 hospital workers rallied outside the health ministry in Athens. [2:43. Arirang is about news. Not about adoration of politicians. News readers aren’t the star.]
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August 27, 2021 12:29pm
Ian Boag

If we backed off on all the measures being taken here, one would not be surprised to see us follow the same path as NSW.

Population about the same and all that. 1000 cases/day and they are in lockdown. Would 1000 cases/day matter here given a CFR of a bit under 2% most of whom are old/sick/fat/whatever ..

I suppose vaccinating like mad is about the only other thing we can do. Seems to be some doubt whether that is worth bothering with. Ivermectin if you like – whatever.

Sooo … without writing a list of all the things that could/should have been done better, what do we do now? To those who have firm ideas they are willing to share, please don’t bother ranting about what has been done wrong so far. Just spell out what we should be doing now ….

eg

Perhaps we shouldn’t bother with testing asymptomatic people ? Perhaps we should just tell oldies to park up and cut everyone else loose. Perhapes we should let the RSEs back in to save the orchardists – they will probably take covid home but is that our problem? Foreign tourists might not come back in a hurry, but so what? They aren’t here now …

The world press would probably acknowledge that NZ has come to its senses. So many choices …..
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August 27, 2021 12:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Let’s hear your suggestions Ian. You’ve clearly been ruminating on this quite a bit 🙂
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:42pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I really don’t know.
    
    I thought of asking something like “if you were PM tomorrow what would you do going forward?”, but that would just provoke a whole lot of backward looking rants. Assuming anyone bothered to reply.
    
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    August 27, 2021 12:52pm
- septic skeptic
  
  From here:
  1. Announce a firm date for opening up. Say 30 November. This is based on the presumption that all eligible will have the opportunity to get both shots by 16 November. Note no requirement about actual uptake – just the opportunity.
  2. Continue the elimination strategy at this point in the hope of capturing the current outbreak.
  3. Open up the vaccination process further using GPs and pharmacists as well as the vaccination centres.
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:46pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Really don’t know why you get down-ticked. Your comment is a perfectly reasonable question. So ideas, then:-
  
  1. We will formally reject elimination strategy, acknowledging Covid-19 is now endemic, and a small number of people are likely to die form it each year, as happens today with influenza
  
  2. We will formally acknowledge that our intervention strategy is no longer singularly focused on vaccination. Vaccination will continue, and we will now also: –
  
  (a) instigate a program of getting early stage treatment protocols into every primary care facilities and rest homes in NZ, and
  
  (b) we will instigate a programs of getting mid/advanced stage treatment protocols into all hospitals, and
  
  (c) we will double our ICU capacity within 3 months
  
  3. We will encourage workers who are able to work from home to do this for the next 6 months
  
  4. We will acknowledge that NZers are capable of taking care of their own primary health needs, and that they are smart enough to stay home and/or not have visitors if they are unwell.
  
  5. We will remove mask mandates because there is no evidence of their efficacy
  
  6. We will no longer publish case numbers as its now clear these generate unnecessary panic
  
  7. We pledge to never lockdown New Zealand society because the evidence now shows these result in increased net harm to society
  
  8. We will reduce immediately MIQ to 7 days, and welcome back more nurses and GPs into New Zealand. We will completely establish MIQ on 1-Jan-2022 – a new beginning.
  
  .. and so on.
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:55pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Wow ….. sort of lock up the oldies and let it rip.
    
    Just a few questions/thoughts
    
    6. If we hang on to widespread testing, then people will demand to know (their right and all that) the results.
    
    2 (c) is a bit of a tall one. I think 3 months would be a bit aspirational. Staffing would be an issue too.
    
    2 (a)/(b) What are these “early/middle/advanced” treatment protocols? Ivermectin and vitamin D? Thumb our noses at the FDA?
    
    8. If you are halving MiQ now and canning it in 4 months why not just can it now?
    
    Bin the wage subsidy and encourage people back to work? Accept the increased risk of transmission because it doesn’t really matter?
    
    pledge to never lockdown Never is pretty infrequent. Why bother? I think this one is just a feel-good.
    
    You left out the border thing – RSEs and backpackers and all that. Perhaps require vax + a recent test? Or do we let that one slide too? If we send covid-infected RSEs back home and Vanuatu
    starts to look like Fiji should we be worried or feel sort of responsible?
    
    It’s interesting to look at the Greek approach to tourists – like us they were pretty heavily dependent on it and it all dried up. They have a (not small) list of countries that you can come from and to enter you need a vax certificate (more than 3 weeks old) and a less than 72 hour clean test. Hasn’t got them back to anything like 2019 levels.
    
    I can see where you are coming from – not sure I would go as far as you.
    
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    August 27, 2021 3:15pm
oldfella

Taliban Opens Chain Of U.S. Army Surplus Stores
https://babylonbee.com/news/taliban-opens-chain-of-us-army-surplus-stores
😉
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August 27, 2021 12:40pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  See how long that lasts on Facebook, sensitive bunch of wanks
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can anyone accurately interpret the following sentence of Peeni Henare:

Henare told RNZ’s Nine to Noon the government did not know for sure that none of the people New Zealand had been trying to evacuate had not been caught up in the blast.

Does he mean…
*None of the people were caught up in the blast?
*None of the people were Not caught up in the blast = some of the people were caught up in the blast?

or does he mean… we don’t know nuffin’?
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August 27, 2021 12:45pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I think he means “I am ignorant about this”…
  
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  August 27, 2021 12:56pm
thirteenstars

Really interesting report from Rebel News Australia showing their reporting team interacting with cops and the cops describing the whole situation as a joke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8c1f36HSw

Pays to have a lawyer on retainer.
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August 27, 2021 12:57pm
cmm

Jacinda mulling alert levels??? Mulling?? FFS!

Silly me. I thought they used science, but, it seems it is all down to Cindy and her inchewishun.

Cindy gets a funny feeling in her tummy and it could be lockdowns for three hours or three months!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-total-new-cases-close-to-70-as-jacinda-ardern-mulls-alert-levels/COB4RSCR3OV5QA4H6RP5SOGCKY/
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August 27, 2021 1:00pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now, now cmm..
  
  you know a decent mull requires prolonged study and deep thinking..
  
  doesn’t it make you glow inside to know that our Dear Leader mulls?
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:20pm
  - marcw
    
    Mmmm … does a mulled wine act faster than my normal red. A study is indicated urgently.
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:30pm
    - Ehlana
      
      marcw, be sure to clarify in your results whether you considered only time from consumption from effect or whether you took account of the whole time span, from opening the bottle … remember mulled wine takes longer to prepare, which could affect your outcome.
      
      Please let the rest of us know, so we can “follow the science”.
      
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      August 27, 2021 1:48pm
      - marcw
        
        Results delayed, due to operational difficulties the first round of tests were found to reflect peer reviewed bias. Further tests are planned, but whether any sense can be made by tomorrow is looking blurrry …
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:09pm
      - cmm
        
        Warming does, indeed, improve the effect.
        
        But far better is to drink mulled wine through a straw with a few pin holes in the side. The air bubbles then transfer the alcohol directly to the lung tissue and then directly into the blood stream. No messing about with slow-acting stomach absorption required.
        
        You really can’t beat a university education.
        
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        August 27, 2021 2:27pm
    - Spring Bank Westie
      
      I think it’s about the same.
      
      Too much mulled wine and too much mulling PM both make me throw up.
      
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      August 27, 2021 2:53pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Ohhh the power.
  She is a rank amateur trying to play a professional game.
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:36pm
mandk

1.23 pm, and still no release of the 1.00 pm update the MoH promised.

Is the a more useless government outfit in NZ?
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August 27, 2021 1:26pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Having trouble with the numbers no doubt – still @ 1:44
  
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  August 27, 2021 1:45pm
  - westernScientest
    
    counting is really hard… or maybe they were working out how to spin this:
    
    Amberlea Home and Hospital Care Facility in Warkworth is a new location of interest. The fully vaccinated staff member worked two shifts while unknowingly infectious.
    
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    August 27, 2021 1:56pm
    - marcw
      
      Which begs the question, what is ïnfectious”? Is it just a positive PCR result, because it suggests the staff member was asymptomatic. In the wider scheme, my opinion is that this delta variant is only transmissible for a very brief time during the course of an infection process. This is backed up by the evidence from Coramandel – a PCR positive individual moving around in a social environment for 3 days, but no-one, not a single one, is infected. It defies the rational for a Nationwide lockdown.
      
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      August 27, 2021 2:22pm
  - BKS
    
    Although they’ve now updated the “COVID-19: Current cases” page, it says “Last updated 1pm 27 August 2021”, which is a lie.
    
    The graph of “Cases reported each day” on that page is pretty terrible. Very hard to read the numbers and you should be able to hover over the data points to see the values.
    
    4 0
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    August 27, 2021 2:04pm
    - westernScientest
      
      you can try the ESR (the cri that does all the testing) covid dashboard, its a bit buggy and more recently often doesn’t line up with the MoH releases
      https://nzcoviddashboard.esr.cri.nz/#!/
      showing 75 cases for today in the community….
      
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      August 27, 2021 3:02pm
Nickc2

[Deleted – your link is irrelevant to your post. Mod.]
0 3
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August 27, 2021 1:36pm
- Nickc2
  
  Did you review the whole video? Carlson’s guest goes into detail about the US Dollar being the world’s reserve currency.
  
  [The link you provided was to the complete TC video library (100’s) – I am not a mind reader to decide which one you mean. Mod.]
  
  4 1
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  August 27, 2021 2:28pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Do you have any faith in the US Dollar as the world’s reserve currency?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHT4jZLig40
    
    [Erik Prince: The US military may not be as capable as they claim]
    
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    August 27, 2021 3:43pm
ABS4EVA

For entertainment in lock down

SEARCH

SLUG GATE
3 1
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August 27, 2021 1:44pm
- curry4me
  
  ABS4EVA: No surprise considering the location.
  
  1 1
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  August 27, 2021 8:20pm
MrTips

All dah rona in AKL – 70 more cases. 19 in hospital, 1 in ICU, all stable.

Now Michael Plank was concerned about PCR positive wastewater in CHC. This is exhibit 56 of COVID modeler failure and logic.
If the PCR is sensitive enough to pick up MIQ released SARS-COV-2 mRNA, it is sensitive enough to pick it up in a community case.
But there are none outside AKL and Wgtn. Wgtn may have peaked, but we’ll see.

Free the mighty southerners Jacinda.
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August 27, 2021 1:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So an extra 70 +ves today.

Doesn’t look like the modellers were on the money…

Plank expected to see numbers start to show signs of decline by near the end of the week, which would suggest the lockdown was having an effect.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/449759/lockdown-should-impact-on-covid-19-numbers-by-end-of-week-modeller

Maybe next week….
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August 27, 2021 1:52pm
- westernScientest
  
  it will be interesting to see if we get a downward trend over the next week, or if new case numbers just chop around like Victoria, in some ways that feels like the worst possible outcome.
  
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  August 27, 2021 2:18pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It would be interesting to create a function relating the number of +ves to the number of tests.
  Have they all been sampled the same and processed likewise?
  Who is auditing the labs?
  
  5 2
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  August 27, 2021 2:23pm
- cmm
  
  More funding required…
  
  5 0
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  August 27, 2021 2:48pm
- Stu2
  
  Was expecting something like that given the large numbers being tested yesterday at the site just for the church cluster
  
  Could be quite a few positive household contacts
  
  Not sure the modeller was taking who had been tested into account sufficiently
  
  3 0
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  August 27, 2021 2:51pm
ABS4EVA

Have you all had a Visit
From NZ Police yet

For thought Crimes?
10 1
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August 27, 2021 2:24pm
ABS4EVA

More Entertainment

NEW FOR 2021: Dame Edna sings Anyone Can Whistle with a Royal Interruption

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuTrYT6msTE&t=3s

And for the Serious

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/barry-humphries-name-dropped-from-prestigious-micf-award/11018726

Since 2000, the most outstanding show at the festival has won the Barry Award, named after Humphries — but this year the title has been renamed the Melbourne International Comedy Festival Award.

And to anyone who knows
Melbourne is now one
NON STOP Comedy Festival
6 1
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August 27, 2021 2:29pm
alex Masterley

It would be nice to have more data around the numbers.
For example
The number infected, as against those who have recovered or are not infectious.
Whether those infected have been infected while isolating with their bubble or have caught it while in the community.
The second point is to enable us to see if there is transmission in the community or if transmission is now limited to those in their bubbles.
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August 27, 2021 2:35pm
- westernScientest
  
  more data would definitely be nice. The MoH put out a number of summary statistics, but they are all so screwy and useless and mainly seem to be designed to show that they are or are not racist, some how. The obsession with ethnicity in their break downs is weird. Can find all sorts of break downs by ethnicity, but cant find simple daily community cases counts (almost always obscured by MIQ) in a way that can be accessed without trying to read them off graph that is too small.
  
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  August 27, 2021 2:43pm
- westernScientest
  
  also if there is anyone from stats nz on here, you API is excruciatingly slow.
  
  3 0
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  August 27, 2021 2:45pm
CAKE FACE1

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300393045/new-zealand-drops-26-places-in-covid-resilience-ranking

Down we go!!!
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August 27, 2021 2:36pm
- cmm
  
  These rankings are bullshit because the criteria they use are fairly arbitrary.
  
  Norway is top of the pack (which is probably fair).
  Norway has massive oil revenue which props up their welfare system and still they don’t spend like our drunken sailors.
  
  Norway’s PM apologized for overreacting to CV19 – perhaps the only leader to do something like that.
  
  Debt-funded resilience is not really resilience – it just hands the problem on to future generations.
  
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  August 27, 2021 2:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

We have not heard from pharmachick for a while.
A wealth of knowledge. I suspect that because of her job she has been silenced by her employers – or threatened by others …..
8 4
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August 27, 2021 2:44pm
- kevn
  
  @SteveO…. Might also be some assumptions are not playing out.
  
  3 2
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  August 27, 2021 3:15pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe. We communicated after my anaphylaxis.
    No assumptions there, plain and clear info. No downtick kevn.
    ‘A’ knows her stuff.
    
    4 2
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    August 27, 2021 3:36pm
Maggie Pie

Just back from having a sneaky lunch with one my tennis bezzies.

Fleur was saying…. “Imagine being able to stay in bed for a month like the Green list Shahbanu , and have taxpayers drop 4k a week into your bank account for doing SFA!”

Told her the same applies with Pancho and Lefty.
15 1
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August 27, 2021 2:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I wonder who you mean? ….. LOL
  
  3 1
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  August 27, 2021 2:51pm
Poppa

I have seen a huge amount of horse floats on the road today heading towards Cambridge

That suggests to me they have the heads up that Waikato will be reducing to level 3 and racing will resume. Auckland not so much

We shall see
5 0
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August 27, 2021 2:54pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So that is where she will stay …..
  
  4 1
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  August 27, 2021 3:37pm
westernScientest

L4 house arrest for all the peasants until at least Tuesday.
7 0
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August 27, 2021 3:08pm
- kowtow
  
  Not all , some are allowed to go fishing.
  
  4 1
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  August 27, 2021 4:08pm
CAKE FACE1

Do you remember the child’s game “Simon says – do this”?

I invented a new game today. When Cindy speaks, I tried to copy her expression, in real time.

I found myself in awe of her rubber face. Mine doesn’t move around like that, and mine also gets a bit sore, if I attempt some of the more extreme stretches and gurns.

She is aging very fast. I think this is more likely to be as a consequence of stress, rather than face pulling, but who knows?
8 2
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August 27, 2021 3:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One day the wind will change, and it becomes permanent ….
  
  6 2
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  August 27, 2021 3:22pm
- kowtow
  
  I wonder how much time she spends in front of a full length mirror and with how many acting tutors to get that move from foot to foot , the hands and arms going , head and all those facial expressions …….all to convey how sincere , caring and engaged she actually isn’t .
  
  The Best Actress award goes to ……
  
  8 1
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  August 27, 2021 3:23pm
  - kevn
    
    @kowtow… It is a full time (when the cameras are rolling) acting job now. Must get tiring.
    
    4 0
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    August 27, 2021 4:32pm
- Inandout
  
  CF, it takes years of practice to work those face muscles into unusual positions.
  
  3 1
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  August 27, 2021 3:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Now she’s just babbling…(and jepradising)

Any bets on how many +Ve folks will be in hospital next week?

Any bets on whether Parliament will be operating next week?
16 0
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August 27, 2021 3:11pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Her speech writers must have a sick sense of humour! It wasn’t kind to put in “jeopardize”.
  
  5 1
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  August 27, 2021 3:14pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Jepradise
    
    3 0
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    August 27, 2021 4:13pm
  - greybeard
    
    Or so many words with the letter “t” in them.
    
    4 0
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    August 27, 2021 4:29pm
  - kowtow
    
    She’s another mangler who says bought instead of brought.
    
    2 1
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    August 27, 2021 5:05pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      She does not know the difference
      
      0 0
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      August 28, 2021 7:41am
- alex Masterley
  
  Happily, if it can be described that keeping Auckland in level 4 means the PM wont get back up here for a while.
  
  6 0
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  August 27, 2021 3:15pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oh no no no. Different rules. And Jethro has a boat – I’m sure he has dispensation under Te Tiriti to go fishing. Got to get the kai bro – rest of us living on bread and water.//
    
    5 2
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    August 27, 2021 3:19pm
    - westernScientest
      
      enjoy the water while you can, 3 waters will fix that soon enough.
      
      7 0
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      August 27, 2021 3:26pm
    - alex Masterley
      
      I think it is still in the drive. I will go for a walk later and check.
      
      4 1
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      August 27, 2021 3:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Check the fuel tanks, he will be off asap
        
        2 1
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        August 27, 2021 4:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Parliament will be shut down as long as Jaspinda can keep it shut down. It is the Socialist/Communist way of silencing the sheeple
  
  17 3
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  August 27, 2021 3:16pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    Do you mind
    Her Party is busy distributing much needed
    TOILET PAPER
    
    5 1
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    August 27, 2021 3:33pm
- Ruawai
  
  They will instruct doctors to put people in hospital even if not needed to make it look worse and scare the people.
  
  2 1
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  August 27, 2021 4:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://rumble.com/vlqfti-former-marine-jesse-kelly-torches-bidens-handling-of-afghanistan.html?
4 2
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August 27, 2021 3:13pm
kowtow

By their own definition the SI should be at L2 at most.

“The disease is contained, but the risk of community transmission remains.”
11 1
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August 27, 2021 3:28pm
- Ceepar
  
  I’m pretty sure they threw the different level rules out quite some time ago and now just wing it.
  
  6 0
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  August 27, 2021 4:04pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  If we stand up against the misapplication of their privileges. what then?
  
  3 2
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  August 27, 2021 5:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    As it has always been with the Elites and the Plebs …..
    
    “You’re nicked, mate”.
    
    1 1
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    August 27, 2021 5:29pm
MrTips

Congratulations New Zealand

You have just shown Jacinda that she can get away with not doing ANYTHING, not achieving anything, not DELIVERING ANYTHING and she can lock you all down if she comes up with a good enough reason to say “what if” (in this case because the egotistical Michael Baker says so).

The fact she should have put in place the capability to deal with “what if” over the last 12-18 months, and didn’t, doesn’t matter. Locked down you are.

Especially you, you poxy Sth Islanders who won’t get it anyway ‘cos no-one can travel there yet. And you, you poxy Hawkes Bay folk with your great weather and fantastic horticulture. Same for you Tasman Mako’s. And anyone else.

Can’t wait to see what the next “what if” reason is.
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August 27, 2021 3:39pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Has anyone checked the legality of this lockdown extension? These surely have to be ordered by the Chief Medical Officer of Health. I understand he (alone) has to order the initial lockdown under certain criteria and orders in the NZ Gazette need to be promulgated. All this is strict. There is not room for political or policing embroidery. The Bill of Rights is an over-riding compliance watchdog. There is little room for Cabinet to have a say either as the decision has to be Bloomfields. I doubt if he has the right to delegate that.
  
  We need to be certain we are not being hoodwinked. One lot of deceit is not an apology for another. The uncertainty of the tests and the “vaccines” is bad enough.
  
  Lawyers to the Chase, please!
  
  4 2
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  August 27, 2021 5:13pm
  - kowtow
    
    She very much gave the impression that this was a cabinet decision but did make the point that Dr Blofeld [Bloomfield] was there throughout and part of the “conversation”.
    
    1 1
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    August 27, 2021 5:35pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Last Year the Government passed the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act
    
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0012/latest/LMS344176.html
    
    This was to cover the fact that the DG of Health and Government had acted unlawfully for 9 days when he first put NZ into Lockdown…
    
    https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/cases/Borrowdale-v-D-G-of-Health-V_1.pdf
    
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    August 27, 2021 7:59pm
Tony

The government has timed this conveniently to prevent businesses outside Auckland from getting anything charged out for August.

How thoughtful of them.
5 0
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August 27, 2021 3:40pm
- Inandout
  
  Most businesses except supermarkets, service stations, certain butchers and pharmacies. Who cares if a certain greengrocer had to dump 80 cases of broccoli.
  
  4 1
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  August 27, 2021 5:00pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How do we get the family washing dried without the laundromat? Four days of rain makes running the household dryer almost impossible.
    
    3 2
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    August 27, 2021 5:20pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A most excellent observation.
  
  Perhaps we will defer the GST payment this month.
  I have clients on life support on the dripfeed wage subsidy. The resurgence handout is harder to prove qualifying for.
  
  1 1
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  August 27, 2021 5:16pm
ABS4EVA

I wrote a song in Lock down 1
It was so politically incorrect
no one I showed it to speaks to me anymore
which is very good

So could not release it in case it went Viral

TO protect the innocent I can only give a few lines
of the new verses

Oh No I have a bat poo flu
Oh No I do not know what to do
I don’t know what to do about the
Bat Poo Flu Blues

I am writing this song and it is getting worse
so now I have to add another verse

Oh No I do not know what to do
Now I have a Bat poo Flu 2

I am on the floor waiting to go from level four to 2

I don’t know what to do about the
Bat Poo Flu Blues 2
2 1
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August 27, 2021 3:41pm
Captain Mainwaring

Westyland in the news again.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126207127/four-people-arrested-after-police-chase-through-south-and-west-auckland

What is it about that God-forsaken place?
5 0
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August 27, 2021 3:42pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  I was born in Henderson on a Sunday Morning
  I did not live there
  But West Auckland used to be Wonderful
  The Beaches and the Love and Support in the Community just a Wonderful Glow Bright Yellow
  
  What NZ used to be? It was just beautiful
  Simple and Beautiful
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pttfUWnZkrE
  [The Opening Scene in The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)]
  
  Much that once was IS LOST
  For none now live who
  REMEMBER IT
  
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  August 27, 2021 4:25pm
I remember when

Just a thought.
Would the PM’s covid briefings be improved by use of a white board and a suitable pointer.
Definite place for the occasional drum roll and, perhaps, the introduction of a trumpet for points of particular importance.
5 1
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August 27, 2021 3:46pm
CAKE FACE1

Europe and the US have moved on from this nasty flu.

It feels like we are only just starting out on what is likely to be a long and brutal journey…

If by August next year, we’re still being locked down – I’m off to Europe…
6 1
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August 27, 2021 3:46pm
70andstilllearning

Good work Northland police. You sure got this one right!
“[Police] basically said, they were wanting Northland to be able to drop down a level as soon as possible.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-mangawhai-locals-frustrated-police-checkpoints-exclude-them-from-northland/6C34UHUX5S52J77J3XZB52MNDI/

Great idea sending Mangawhai folk to Warkworth, this week wasn’t it.
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August 27, 2021 3:58pm
Master Mariner

Forget about NZ Covid Deaths, This will likely far exceed any Deaths in NZ by Covid, Either Directly and indirectly.
We really need a Government with Worldly experience and Common sense.

One thing so far is the lack of information by the Minister for MFAT.

“Ali, along with a number of other Afghan workers and translators, had made a number of applications to come to New Zealand in the months leading up to Kabul’s fall. Those applications were widely reported on by New Zealand media. They were repeatedly turned down by the government. According to Stuff, immigration minister Kris Faafoi wrote to the group on 5 July to say the government was not looking to “extend” assistance to the former workers.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/27/total-betrayal-afghan-interpreters-shocked-as-new-zealand-ends-kabul-evacuation

It really seems to me that the Covid “Side show” 1500 hrs today is just that.

Really hoping for a good result, But in all honesty I’m not seeing any positive actions to mitigate these fears.
5 1
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August 27, 2021 4:19pm
- kowtow
  
  The Herc was sent there , ostensibly, to pick them up .
  
  How the Goon Show masquarading as our govt thought anyone could have got from Bamyan to Kabul under the circumstances defies all logic.
  
  Now confirmed the Herc didn’t pick up any of the folk it was sent for ie the ones Faafoi ,actually Cabinet , effectively abandoned.
  
  What was the point of sending the ‘plane , other than more spin.
  
  HDPA has coined a new phrase ” to be Faafoied”
  
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  August 27, 2021 4:59pm
  - kevn
    
    @kowtow… The Herc did 3 trips from Dubai to Kabul I gather. Not sure what the passenger makeup was. Some are on the way to NZ with Emirates.
    Plenty of voter remorse in the US I expect.
    Just like in NZ.
    
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    August 27, 2021 6:11pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    @Kowtow-
    Please do not insult the integrity of the Goon Show by comparing it to this authoritarian government we have ruling over us.
    If only Peter Sellers, Harry Secombe, Spike Milligan and Michael Bentine were still on deck to show our soulless fools here what being really crazy was all about.
    The Goon Show was classy.
    This government is not.
    
    4 0
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    August 27, 2021 7:34pm
Fletch

Pushing it in written news stories as well….. (bolding mine)

They were apprehended nearby and are currently in custody, while two others were arrested at the vehicle, Peter Raynes from Tāmaki Makaurau Police later said.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/police-cars-smash-into-vehicle-wild-chase-across-auckland-stopped

It’s friggin’ AUCKLAND.
9 1
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August 27, 2021 5:05pm
info@cruzpro.com

“Auckland congestion charge: Cross-party support to make drivers pay at peak times”

Am I wrong to believe that other taxes will not be reduced to compensate for this additional revenue?
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August 27, 2021 5:57pm
ABS4EVA

Stay Calm
Stay Home

Don’t watch the Sunset
Follow the Science

Dan Andrews has lent Jacinda Adhern

The SUPER COMPUTER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47pfv-dtoQI

[Dan Andrews’ Super Computer – Exclusive Behind The Scenes Look]
2 1
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August 27, 2021 6:07pm
krazykiwi

A new paper from a study in Israel in respect of Pfizer : –

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections

SARS-CoV-2-naive vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected
:::
SARS-CoV-2-naive vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected
:::
This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity

If natural immunity is so much stronger than vaccine-created immunity, then why is there not more focus on treatment?
6 1
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August 27, 2021 6:54pm
krazykiwi

So, the Pfizer vax is finally approved by the FDA?

Well, no. It is not.

It is still under EUA.

You may have heard that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 shot received FDA approval this past Monday. Politicians, national health officials, and journalists are breathless with excitement about how this approval will finally induce the remaining “vaccine-hesitant” into stepping forward to receive their jab. The FDA even has a press release on its website about it.

There’s just one problem.

If you read the actual letters that the FDA sent to Pfizer on August 23, 2021, you’ll see that the FDA did no such thing. In the sense that the term “FDA approval” is generally understood, this drug is not approved by the FDA. It is still under EUA (Emergency Use Authorization). It is still an experimental drug.
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August 27, 2021 7:00pm
- krazykiwi
  
  This story just became bigger.
  
  What Pfizer has done is to split the vaccine product into two products. One is branded (“Comirnaty”) which has received the full market licence, but is unavailable in the US due to “insufficient stocks”, and the other an unbranded product (“Pfizer/Biontech vaccine”) which is widely available but remains under the existing Emergency Use Authorisation.
  
  So they and the elites can crow about full FDA approval (of some conjured product), while continue to inject the experimental ’emergency use’ gene therapy into millions of shoulders every day.
  
  Astounding.
  
  And these robber/barons are the once claiming their product is safe and effective?
  
  5 1
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  August 27, 2021 10:20pm
ABS4EVA

If anyone is bored there is heaps of Riot Footage
to watch in SA

Wow

Impressive
1 1
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August 27, 2021 7:51pm

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