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August 12, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 August 2021

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General Debate

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Happychappy

Isn’t it ironic that this Government keeps preaching to New Zealand’s that they are the only source of the truth that can be believed.
Dispite this fabrication of less there Ministers Like Megan Woods go out and blatantly lie of who is to blame over the power outage on Monday night that left many freeing because the out couldn’t keep there heating going.
It’s easy to play the blame game but not so easy to cover it up when a Journalist like Thomas Coughlan decides that Jaina Ardern the Prime Minister and Megan Woods are being loose with the truth.
Thomas Coughlan : Ministers were warned about power outages. Three years ago a report from Grid Operator Transpower landed on Beehive desks it carried serios warnings.
“Under the base- cases scenario, New Zealand exposure to supply shortages in winter and dry years is….
Dispite the warnings and the lies that are being told by this Government to try and appease their voters the media decide it’s better to go after National Leader Judith Collins than take this rotten Government and the Prime Minister to task.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/megan-woods-on-the-warpath-over-electricity-outages-throws-power-generators-under-the-bus-but-brushes-off-calls-to-resign/TG2C34R4FMA7NZFZMHNU5OBLXU/
Labour Ministers telling the public they are the only source of the truth is a laugh they don’t even understand the meaning of the word “Truth”.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/thomas-coughlan-ministers-were-warned-about-power-outages/VYR73E4SWGWGD2M4GJCKXZTZZU/
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August 12, 2021 8:00am
- Bobba Fret
  
  An I see they have now wheeled out David Parker to front on the issue…..where is Megan? Too embarrassed to be seen as the head of Genesis basically stood up to them…good on him.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I suspect Dr Woods has been hastily moved to Witless Protection…
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:00am
    - pdm
      
      Seems a good place for her – out of sight out of mind.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:24am
    - Maxx
      
      That bunker must be getting pretty big now. Maybe the lower down list MP’s are tasked to keep digging it out – they don’t seem to do anything else.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:43am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      To keep Kris Faafoi company there!
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:23am
- Maxx
  
  Ardern famously made her statement that she doesn’t lie and if she did she would own up to it.
  
  So as she hasn’t owned up to any lies, and if we’re to believe her statement that she doesn’t lie, when statements that she has made have been proven to be false or misleading it can only mean that her advisers and/or Ministers are lying to her.
  
  Does she accept that it is acceptable for them to lie to her if she has publicly stated “lying = bad”? If she is fine with this, why is it OK for them if her moral compass points to it being bad? If not, seemingly there are no repercussions for misleading her, and by extension the country, so lying ≠ bad? Or is it bad is not equal to bad as it is defined? Perhaps it is deathly serious and her and she is actively rehabilitating them; we know she doesn’t believe the traditional methods of correction ~~or that of calling out bad behaviour~~ and shifting blame. This could explain the close association with Harry Tam and his positive corrective methods.
  
  Or perhaps she lied about not lying. Much like the two doors riddle in Labyrinth where one door always told the truth and the other lies. Clearly the public and the media decided the the person who says they never lies was telling the truth and that the person who said that lies sometimes happens was lying.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:52am
  - alloytoo
    
    Perhaps Ardern doesn’t lie, or rather she believes her own lies.
    
    That would make her a pathological liar, possibly suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. (Did we really believe JLR was the only one?)
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:12am
    - herb1
      
      She’s like Megan Markle. She speaks “her” truth
      
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      August 12, 2021 1:22pm
peterwn

Interesting reading the various news items concerning Monday night’s power blackouts. My take on various aspects:
WEL – lines operator in the Waikato. Its ‘customers’ (they are in reality customers of various retailers) bore the brunt of the cuts. WEL has had to defend making the cuts which it was obliged to make in accordance with the regulatory framework. It queried the need for the extent of cuts it had to impose but to no avail. Apart from that there was nothing WEL could have done except straight out disobedience which could have resulted in Transpower pulling the switches at Hamilton and Huntly grid exit points which would have caused a more chaotic situation including probably Waikato Hospital being cut.
Genesis – has ended up being the ‘whipping boy’ for the debacle. Whether the weed problem at its Tokaanu station (which reduced production during the critical period) could have been averted or avoided goodness knows. Then it owns Huntly and it seems the blame has gone on Genesis for not having the third Rankine machine going at the time of the cuts. The machine had not been ‘dispatched’ by Transpower earlier in the day (it takes 8 to 10 hours to start up) and Genesis would have had no reason to start it up on its own volition. In this regard there are probably tense relationships between Genesis and the Electricity Authority, the other generators and others regarding Huntly. Huntly is surplus to requirements as far a Genesis is concerned but has retained it at the behest of the Electricity Authority and Meridian. Naturally Genesis wants a commercial return on keeping it available and got stiffed by the Electricity Authority several years ago when it offered power at a high spot price during transmission line shutdowns. As far as I know Genesis would now be paid some sort of retainer for keeping Huntly. Genesis also suffers the odium of operating a coal fired station even though the output is required for others.
Transpower – Apart from running transmission, it is responsible for the day to day dispatching of generation and related market functions. It is apparent that the dispatchers goofed, both with not dispatching the third Huntly machine earlier in the day (but hindsight is a wonderful thing) and with the extent of cuts applied (seemed to be calculation and judgment errors). Seems Transpower is taking it on the nose.
Electricity Authority – has kept its head down so far. Normally EA would be pontificating to everyone else about the error of their ways. However EA probably recognises it has ‘dirty hands’ and is still figuring how to blame others. EA is effectively the rulemaker and referee but it seems its rules do not seem to accord with reality. For example it accused Meridian and Contact of unnecessarily ‘spilling’ water, but had to back down in its final report or the companies would have sought and won judicial review.
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August 12, 2021 8:00am
- peterwn
  
  And a few more aspects to take a look at.
  Electric Kiwi – EK and some other small retailers have a parasitic business model of buying most of their power at low spot prices, then complain when they cannot buy power at ‘reasonable’ prices when supply is constrained. EK etc do not make any investment in generation. EK is trying to apply political pressure in support of its business model. EK has also accused Mercury of being ‘conflicted’ in offering $50 to its customers affected by the blackouts (there is no ‘blame’ attached to Mercury) and by implication is not going to offer $50 to its affected customers. The $50 decision would have been made by Mercury’s retail division as a goodwill and marketing gesture and not an acceptance of blame.
  Consumer Institute – considers that the retailers have breached contracts with customers and consider that compensation should be paid. Consumer should have made it clear that it is the ‘industry’ who should be paying compensation but how it is divvied up in the industry is not the customers’ concerns.
  Hamish Rutherford of Stuff – blames it on a ‘shortage’ of generation. He overlooks that the four major generators do have wind and geothermal generation projects in the pipeline, but he forgets that building generation prematurely is a cost burden that has to be borne by customers. Indeed the EA and MBIE may not allow the cost of ‘premature’ works to be recovered through tariffs.
  The Government – has made it virtually impossible to build new hydro and has stopped oil exploration. I suspect the Government would like to put the boot into the major generators, but this would mean a reduction in dividends from its half ownership in three of the companies and would increase the perception of sovereign risk of doing business in NZ.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:24am
  - insider
    
    Why would anyone build a generator today except to replace retired capacity?
    
    Putting aside RMA and other issues, electricity demand is static and has been for 15 years. And we are losing or about to lose some major industrial users – pulp mills, NZRC, perhaps glenbrook and tiwai point. The government’s fickleness and arbitrariness over major policy is also a big issue. So what director would approve spending hundreds of millions in that environment.
    
    I’d also note that during these issues one of the favoured future energy sources -wind – was only producing about 100MW of about 800mW installed. That’s a regular issue for NZ in winter. If Huntley goes, we are going to have to build a lot of spare capacity for the freezing nights when either a southerly storm rages across the country or it is dead still and a frost descends. Building more wind won’t cover that. Nor will solar.
    
    The other concern with losing these industrial customers is that they were able to act as a safety valve when the system got tight, as they could reduce demand to support the network. Not having that capacity could make the system more vulnerable because the only option to shed load will not be a factory but a suburb or a city.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:41am
    - alloytoo
      
      Wind and solar are not suitable power sources for a a national grid.
      
      They may have limited uses elsewhere, but keep them off your grid.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:21am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting analysis, particularly in respect of the EA. Oh, a suggestion: in the interested of readability… some paragraph breaks?
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And dead on cue the Government’s lapdog runs a hit job on Genesis.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/genesis-carbon-dioxide-levels-up-82-pct-compared-to-previous-years.html
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:55am
  - peterwn
    
    If Genesis just needed Huntly coal burning Rankine (to distinguish from some gas fired plant on site) for its own customer needs, it would have dumped Huntly several years ago. Government and public odium are further reasons why Genesis could consider dumping Huntly. However it is currently an essential component of the electricity system. Perhaps Genesis should do a ‘jingle keys’ – put the keys to Huntly into a courier envelope and courier it to Megan Woods. When they arrive they would probably be so toxic as to force a Beehive evacuation.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:05am
    - tf78
      
      pertwn, haven’t Genesis gone all green in the past few years?!
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:51am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Unfortunately for the Government however, Genesis is innocent with regard to Monday night’s fiasco. Instead someone at Transpower got their sums wrong.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:51am
    - NoCash
      
      That’s not entirely correct. Yes, Transpower miscalculated the load that needed to be shed, which caused more people having power cut than necessary. But there was not enough generation to meet demand regardless. Genesis wasn’t completely blame free IMO, the first warning was issued early in the morning on Monday, but they didn’t take into account the possibility of wind drop and failure at the hydro when deciding whether to or not preemptively prepare the 3rd Huntly unit for production, which in part I assume was due to the market price for the peak period was not high enough to justify.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:27am
      - peterwn
        
        Wrong. This is of course the line other parties are trying to take to shift blame away from themselves. If Genesis had pre-emptively started the third machine without it being ‘dispatched’ and it was not needed, it would not have received payments. Similarly if it started the machine and offered the power at a high spot price (which would recognise that Genesis receives only a sporadic return on its value and subsistence costs) it risked being ‘stiffed’ by the EA which happened several years ago. The responsibility for ‘dispatching’ that machine lies with Transpower (short term) and EA (longer term). It does not lie with Genesis unless it needed the output to satisfy its particular contracts. Genesis exists to meet its own customers’ needs and to make money for its shareholders. Genesis is not Mother Teresa.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:42pm
      - NoCash
        
        @peterwn
        Transpower doesn’t direct Genesis how to generate the agreed supply. It’s up Genesis to decide when to fire up the 3rd unit at Huntly. They failed to account for the wind drop and their hydro outage, that’s on them. Had there been no supply shortage from them, there would be no power cut.
        
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        August 12, 2021 1:48pm
- Maxx
  
  Like everything there are usually a number of things that taken separately would not have lead to the overall outcome. And as is usually the case a chain of events that hadn’t been predicted.
  
  Yet people have a desire for things to be clean and simple. They look for something they can understand , and generation is nothing like simple.
  
  What should happen from here is examining in detail the chain of events, look for areas where existing requirements weren’t met and understand why that was, and finally update the requirements and guidelines. I’m sure this won’t satisfy peoples need for blood though.
  
  The main takeaway from this for me is that demand has continued to grow and will not slow, we don’t have sufficient spare capacity especially considering hydro storage levels are currently good, and there is little to no generation coming on. The market signals from the Government are such that no sane organisation would want to invest.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:28am
- NoCash
  
  AFAIK, by regulations, Transpower doesn’t have the power to order Genesis to start up the 3rd Huntly generator. Transpower only has the power to order load shedding in an emergency to protect the grid.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:49am
- Ed Snack
  
  I’d suggest that the Tokaanu problem was very predictable and that Genesis bears some responsibility for that issue. The intake is in Lake Rotoaira, in the far Northern corner, in the presence of a strong southerly wind, excess weed is predictably bound to end up in the intake area. Genesis would know this and either failed to manage the weed issue or failed to keep the screens clear enough; or maybe failed to have adequate mechanisms in place to do that.
  
  Quite free of blame for the reduction in wind generation as that is exactly the nature of wind power, I think the case is that wind power is completely reliable – never available when most needed. Absolutely unsuitable to be counted beyond about 1-5% of capacity as base load.
  
  And given that the weather forecasts for a serious cold snap were available several days before it happened (and we’re pretty accurate), the failure to get the third Huntley unit on line is obvious. Predictably required and yet not requested until it was (obviously) too late.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:10am
- Nickc2
  
  It was stated on the Hosking show this morning that the fault lay with some mathematical genius at Transpower calling for other stations to reduce their loads by X and when queried about X, verified the requirement. Subsequently, all other stations reduced loads iaw the requirement. In other words, human error. The value of X was incorrectly calculated.
  I can’t verify the truth of this statement but it was reported ………..etc.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:15am
krazykiwi

I want to draw your attention to this initiative: https://groundedkiwis.com.

My London-based son-in-law became involved with the group’s founders a couple of weeks ago, and since then it’s been like holding a tiger by the tail. They have been sent many stories of hardship created by a MIQ system that is failing New Zealanders both here and abroad.

They have also compiled a great collection of news and resources.

You can support them. I’ve signed their parliamentary petition and encourage you and your friends to do likewise.
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August 12, 2021 8:01am
- pdm
  
  Petition signed.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:11am
- Master Mariner
  
  Absolutely KK.
  also,
  http://www.change.org/nzseafarers
  Currently in excess of 400 unable to return after months and sometimes over a year to return home.
  Some extremely harrowing accounts keeping supply chains operating.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:01am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, you guys are legends. Can can you have those 400 sign the parliamentary petition? It probably has more teeth in that one accepted by an MP it can’t be ignored.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:06am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  If love you see a few hundred of them just turn up on the doorstep at a port or airport and sue the shit out of the government for refusing entry. Those who have got back need to do the same to set a precedent and some case law for those less fortunate.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:27am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Apparently this group now includes members with high-end legal expertise, lawyers with roles in government and industry in US and Europe. There are some very smart, very pissed ex-pat kiwis out there.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:42am
    - kevn
      
      @kk… Cactus Kate amongst them?
      
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      August 12, 2021 2:15pm
- BeeJay
  
  Petition signed
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:47am
- Lara
  
  Signed.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:04am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Duly signed 😀
  
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  August 12, 2021 2:03pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Thanks for your support, team. Every voice counts.
  
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  August 12, 2021 6:37pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

Labour Party deplatforms portrait of ‘Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11’ from 9th floor of Beehive.

Replaces it with digital reproduction of Bayeux Tapestry.

https://twitter.com/KiwiArtByABot/status/1422659286186999815
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August 12, 2021 8:13am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Few ‘more’ clowns in the pic and so long as it’s a 9th floor, all good.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern’s taken over the job as Hel Capitain.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:33am
- Tall Man
  
  The one of little should have him lying on the canvas …..
  (no mistake in the spelling for the more observant)
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:46am
G152

Well Wellington businessman and Hurricanes board member Troy Bowker did the freedom of speech thing and remarked upon the changes in language on fake news programs (for example).
And our little duckling has gone beserk..
No longer will he ‘attend’ rugby matches as Troy Bowker actually helps finance a team of European Maori and Islanders.
Using, of course his freedom of speech to disparage another thinking his position in Parliament means a darn out here in the real world.
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August 12, 2021 8:18am
- alwyn
  
  I have heard a rumour from a friend who is involved in rugby in Wellington. I have no idea whether it is true but it sounds possible. He said he isn’t sure either.
  According to him the real reason Trevor is so mad is that he is being dropped from the list of people who get free tickets to the games.
  Can anyone in the know confirm or deny this?
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:58am
  - sooty
    
    What’s he done or could influence by attending the rugger! He’s just a drain!
    
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    August 12, 2021 4:10pm
- oldfella
  
  Ian Taylor was fairly balanced this morning on TV3’s AM show. Won’t use the racist word when discussing Bowker’s comments, and thinks he’s just ill informed. Also spoke out against cancel culture, suggesting people keep supporting the Hurricanes – a multi-cultural team. And said they should keep Bowker on the board as the team needs his money.
  I’d like to think Bowker got a chance tomorrow morning to reply.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:58am
  - surfing
    
    While I don’t like Bowker, I don’t believe Bowker said anything racist.
    
    Some of Bowkers subsequent comments are deplorable, but still not racist.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:47am
    - Tall Man
      
      Not sure why you see them as deplorable.
      
      While unnecessarily blunt, they are on point in my opinion.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:49am
  - oldfella
    
    Talking of racism…
    Just when you think cancel culture is hitting rock bottom, it gets even more imbecilic. The learned academics at the University of Wisconsin-Madison say rocks can be racist.
    No, we’re not talking about a racist tossing a rock at someone. We’re talking about a boulder just sitting there.
    https://lidblog.com/racist-rock/
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:35am
    - tf78
      
      oldfella, I guess it depends on whose head they come into contact with.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:02am
- igm
  
  The fat funny fella is also upset . . . who bloody cares, about time someone spoke out about this bullshit. Perenara is using it as political football, not that his word is worth much, in fact he is a joke.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:25am
  - pdm
    
    `in fact he is a joke’
    
    Bit like his rugby at the moment.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:26am
    - oldfella
      
      I think PJ has visions of becoming our own Colin Kaepernick. Wait for Perenara to take a knee before the next AB test and say it’s his stand against racists like Bowker. Could be a good career move. /s
      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/sports/football/george-floyd-kaepernick-kneeling-nfl-protests.html
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:13am
      - Nickc2
        
        Perenara was and maybe still is a good Half-Back but using the ABs and/or the Hurricanes as a Political Platform does not show himself or the game I love in a good light. He is fast becoming a liability IMO.
        If he wants to make Political statements using the MSM, he should hang up his boots, attend the Victoria University of Wellington and get a degree in Racial Activism and see how he goes from there.
        He may do well in that field. TVNZ1 could replace that idiot John Campbell with him and perhaps their ratings will improve, but who really cares?
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:35pm
      - herb1
        
        Looking forward to Perenara making a stand on his principles , and cancels his contract with the Hurricanes.
        Anything less would be hypocritical as Bowker has made it clear he’s not selling his shares , ergo he remains on the board.
        
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        August 12, 2021 1:27pm
      - Prince
        
        TJ is making a run for Labour MP for Mana next election. Sitting MP Barbara Edmonds is worried.
        
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        August 12, 2021 4:07pm
  - JerJer
    
    End if the day, Troy Bowker is just speaking his mind, and is speaking the truth and most clear thinking people would agree with him.
    
    TJ is an average Rugby player and a thicket at the end of his career, who doesn’t understand racsim.
    
    There will be only one winner here.
    
    Hint: It won’t be someone called TJ.
    
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    August 12, 2021 3:50pm
- BeeJay
  
  Oh dear, the Hurricanes will be so upset that a toxic supporter spat the dummy and isn’t going to any more of their games while a Board Member and Owner stays involved with the Hurricanes club! Yep, that’ll do it! The Hurricanes club will now fall apart without the support of Toxic Trevor! ?
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:56am
  - sooty
    
    But just think of the money they save by not having to feed and water him!
    
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    August 12, 2021 4:20pm
Tony Stuart

There appears to have been a leak from either UMR or the Beehive, and the Prime Minister will be somewhat anxious. UMR’s latest poll is reported to have Labour at 38%, National at 31%, Act 13% and the Greens 8%.

The gap has most certainly narrowed between the left and right blocs, to the point where a further 1% swing from left to right would have the groupings dead equal.

Even though this changes nothing, Labour backbenchers expecting a long tenure at the parliamentary trough are going to become extremely anxious as they see their prospects of re-election slipping away. Once the back bench gets nervous, it can create issues for even the strongest of leaders, although most would argue that’s not Ms Ardern. The back bench can quickly become a liability, whilst on the other side of the House, National and Act MP’s will be emboldened, as will those candidates who missed out last year, but are determined to have another go. These are interesting times.
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August 12, 2021 8:19am
- Paulus
  
  In reading the BOP Times today for the first time almost all the letters are against whatever this Government are and have done. This contrary to everything they usually do along with the regular anti Collins disgusting cartoons.
  I expect the Editor to get the DCM (or more money).
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:26am
  - tf78
    
    Paulus, it’s turning into JDS just like they did with Trump. The people they fear the most.
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:11am
- artemisia
  
  Suspect 2023 is the election Labour won’t mind losing. Their ‘policies that stick’ approach (lots of free money given or committed) and general incompetence means the cupboard will be bare.
  
  Much more fun to rest up and snipe from the sidelines. And Ms Ardern can move on if offers are on the table. Which of course they will be.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:27am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Emotionally and mentally the Blairite won’t be able to handle opposition. Step in Grunter who will be mocked endlessly by the government given what the economic situation will be at this juncture.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:21am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Emotionally and mentally the Blairite won’t be able to handle opposition.
      
      When Labour gets turfed from office, she will resign from parliament and go off and do something else. She made that clear in response to a question during one of the Leaders’ Debates last October.
      
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      August 12, 2021 1:11pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    National are going to have an awful time fixing up the financial mess they will inherit.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:37am
- Simon
  
  Just in from my contact in the Prime Minister’s office. Latest results of their UMR internal polling has Labour below 40s at 38%, National at 31%, Act at 13% Grn at 8% NZF at 4% Top at 3% MP at 2% NC at 1%
  
  https://twitter.com/Coltheman1/status/1425374215151124486
  
  If Winston can hold it together NZF will get over 5% and will be part of any next gubermint. – Undesirable – but likely.
  
  Lets hope some creeping maori cloak wearing dripping wet Tory doesnt try to take out the Nats leadership.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:30am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Winston is toxic. Time for the old chap to hang up the 80’s double breasted suits, and fade quietly into oblivion.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:24am
    - cmm
      
      You know you’re dreaming. Winston will still be electioneering from the grave.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:20am
  - Jack5
    
    Can someone explain please what “internal polling” is?
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:59am
    - Tall Man
      
      You really don’t want to know Jack ……
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:51am
  - Nickc2
    
    Great!!! I think the realities of:
    He Puapua,
    3 Waters,
    Aotearoa (renaming NZ),
    Mongrel Mob rewards,
    Illegal Road Blocks,
    Conversion Therapy,
    Covid-19 Lockdowns,
    Lies and MSM Propaganda,
    Incompetent Ministers,
    Rental Property laws,
    EVs and Utes,
    Pandering to Radicals,
    Perceived interference in the Justice System,
    Separatism and
    Compulsory Maori Wards are finally being understood by the voting populace.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:50pm
  - coge
    
    Get it over the line. Without Winston.
    
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    August 12, 2021 2:13pm
- Bill Felt
  
  The Labour party is made up of various factions:
  1. The Progressives – Ardern, Robertson, Hipkins
  2. Unions – Little, ..
  3. Maori – Mahuta, Jackson
  4. Backbenchers, …
  
  With the 50% mandate the party currently has each of the factions are pushing for their own interests. Just look at the Maori faction with He Puapua, Maori health, water, Maori trade….
  
  But when the numbers start to demonstrate that a re-election is going to be a hard thing or when the money runs out, the factions will pull the Labour party apart. With Arderns weak leadership, this will happen very quickly and the situation will deteriorate rapidly.
  
  When Labour lose the next election Ardern is gone! There will be a leadership vacuum and various factions will be fighting for the leadership role.
  
  Labour will be in opposition for many years
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:33am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Don’t forget Labour’s Rainbow caucus. It provided most of the Labour speakers in the First Reading debate of the Conversion Therapy Bill last week, including Dr Ayesha Verrall, Tamati Coffey, Louisa Wall, Glen Bennett and Shanan Halbert.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:08am
    - pdm
      
      Does Verrall bat for the other team – I didn’t know that.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:28am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        This was the last paragraph of Dr Verrall’s speech:
        
        The rainbow community has long fought homophobia. We have done this by asserting our rights, by being visible. The primary way we do this is with pride, by being proud and refusing to be ashamed. The rainbow community has progressed progressive law reform in New Zealand to ensure that our rights are upheld, and the rainbow community has called for this bill to be passed today. I am very proud to be a member of New Zealand’s rainbow community, and I am proud to be a Labour MP supporting this bill. All our young people should grow up with a sense of pride in themselves. Conversion therapy is monstrous. It is not therapy; it is hate. I commend this bill to the House.
        
        Frankly, I don’t give a toss what someone’s sexuality is; I’m far more concerned with their competence. And to date, Dr Verrall has been underwhelming, having entered Parliament with a big reputation thanks to her work during the Covid pandemic last year.
        
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        August 12, 2021 10:49am
      - tf78
        
        pdm, why don’t gay people understand that their life choices have been widely accepted by the general populace for over twenty years. No one is more special that the next.
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:18am
    - I remember when
      
      Another problem for Labour is the percentage of electorate seats held by Maori members.
      It is the reason it was obvious that, unless they gave Maori a high percentage of the ministerial positions, they had to be appeased with policy.
      If they hold the Maori seats, which they need, how much does it affect the list allocations.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:00am
      - tf78
        
        Irw – we looked at our old passports this morning and it appears that Aoatearowa only appeared on them from about 2021. HC at the helm at the time I think.
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:20am
      - oldfella
        
        tf78, things are changing with our latest passports, which will now say our country is Aotearoa/New Zealand. But wait, there’s more…
        “The silver fern and coat of arms would remain on the cover. But one change was that te reo Māori would appear before English on the cover and throughout the book.”
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300291188/new-zealand-passport-to-get-a-security-makeover
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:00pm
      - tf78
        
        Irw – sorry I meant to say 2001 not 2021.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:20pm
  - Isobar
    
    Labour like National are shocking for planning for opposition years.
    
    If they were smart they will be thinking of succession planning and opposition planning right now so they dont look like the shit-show they were during the key years or that National are looking like at the moment.
    
    Of course, like National they probably wont do this because they think they will be in government forever.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:28am
- Frank the tank
  
  This is good news Tony.
  
  We all know the key to the election is those 30+ without penises. There is definitely a cooling off amongst these in regards to the Blairite. Most of these aren’t woke and are scared by the thought of going to jail when their Timmy wants to be a Tammy.
  
  There will be also a HUGE reaction when the great unwashed discover what we knew already that vaccination is not the end game for the left in regards to the plandemic. Not allowing suburban housewives over to the GC for a week with the kids will come as a great shock to those who thought they were part of the “team of 5 million”
  
  Wokeborg has infected New Zealand and the Blairite. I don’t believe they have the desire to play RealPolitik without Grampa Peters managing the kids.
  
  Perhaps the first slivers of dawn are appearing on the horizon.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:35am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Hmmm, more’s the pity when you consider that Labour’s backbench comprises such sheer, unbridled talent. I know this because many of them talk openly about just how talented they are…
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:36am
  - I remember when
    
    For such a ‘diverse’ government they all seem rather similar – lacking in ‘diversity.’
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh dear,
  Our Dear PM might discover some folks in her own party don’t particularly like her.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:50am
- WaveyDavey
  
  So what you’ve said is that the left has about 50% support
  
  A 10% lead
  
  Pretty substantial and remember this is after 4 years of this incompetent mob. If the right can’t get its collective sh1t together by now there’s no hope
  
  2023: L +/- G
  2026: L+G +/- MP
  
  …16yo’s get the vote…
  
  2029: See 2023/26
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:24am
  - cmm
    
    There isn’t really the Labour Party. There’s the Jacinda Party.
    
    Take Jacinda away and Labour is the same mob that were on their way to a 20-something% hiding under Little in 2017.
    
    If the public lose confidence in Cindy (or get tired with Cindyphoria) then they’ve got no depth.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:29am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Absolutely agree with you there. Without her they’re gone. Which is why she’s not going anywhere
      
      Polls show that 60% of the female vote supports her
      
      In effect that’s the Labour party’s absolute baseline with JA in charge – 30% of the total vote
      
      Now if they only pick up 25% of male voters (and it’s likely to be more than that) that’s your almost guaranteed 40%(ish)
      
      Chuck in the Greens who won’t ever go with anyone else and Maori Party (a rat too far for National to swallow, if for no other reason than ACT won’t let it happen) and you’re looking close to 50% LoC as a base to work from
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:42am
      - oldfella
        
        WD, I just found this little nugget about Queensland’s female Premier. The story is behind a paywall on Brisbane’s ‘Courier Mail’, but this says a lot.
        Among Annastacia Palaszczuk’s 30 media spinners is a secret team of a dozen people in charge of curating her public image.
        I wonder if Cindy – who also has about 30 media spinners – also has a dedicated inner circle curating her public image.
        I’d say = almost certainly.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:13pm
      - Mark
        
        you were very happy when it was the jk party oik.
        
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        August 12, 2021 10:06pm
    - Isobar
      
      Its true, and they are likely to fall into the same trap as National did with Key.
      
      When Jacinda goes, a lot of their popularity will too because they dont appear to have proper succession planning in place.
      
      Bill English was a nice guy and an incredibly competent minister. But he was never going to match Key in popularity. Labour have the exact same problem.
      
      The only problem is – Key resigned, labour people were waiting with baited breath for his popularity to drop, but it never did. If you are hoping the same will happen to Ardern, be prepared for a potential long wait and / or her to resign and move on.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:17pm
      - Isobar
        
        Also as an addendum, To replicate what happened in 2017, Ardern would need to resign (as Key did well in advance) and National would need to have a new very popular leader. These two things dont look like happening any time soon.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:20pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Labour plus Greens = 46%
    National plus Act = 44%
    
    There was a four percentage point gap between the L/G and N/A blocs on the Roy Morgan poll last week; now that’s down to two percentage points. I don’t quite see where your 10 point gap comes from.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:57am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Again: the Maori Party!
      
      But keep on keeping on with the echo chamber. Everyone here deluded themselves last time and in 2017 – that went well didn’t it?
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:56am
      - sooty
        
        Whinestone’s opening for the next election!
        
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        August 12, 2021 4:32pm
      - JerJer
        
        Nope. Wasted vote. They won’t get an electorate seat again, and the shamles of this time around.
        
        They majority of their remaining vote will be re-distributed to the National/Act majority.
        
        I’m sure they will be delighted.
        
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        August 12, 2021 10:23pm
- redeye
  
  And presumably this poll was taken pre the electricity crisis.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:33am
- BananaLlama
  
  Labour ruling out a return of NZF and pushing ahead with their Maori separatism will certainly make things interesting. I imagine alot of puckering going on at the beehive if this leak is true.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:45am
- Isobar
  
  Even if true, weren’t we all just rubbishing the UMR polls as being unreliable only a couple of weeks ago?
  
  I think the fact that we even have to rely on supposed poll leaks just for any shred of good news is really not a great position to be in.
  
  Just be careful about not getting your hopes up to much on something with such little credibility. National will need to show they have so much more to offer than the zero new policy we saw over the weekend to prove they are capable of being in govt again.
  
  Doing nothing is not going to move the needle that much and win the election for them, and if that is the strategy, it is a fraught one.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:22am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Zero new policy? There’s a huge amount of work going on with regard to policy development right now, but two years out from the election isn’t the time to be releasing policy.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:59am
    - tf78
      
      Tony, we’re going to listen to Simon Bridges next Monday morning. Really looking forward to it. I think he’s the answer. (Bill English (whose name is also Simon) came back again).
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:26am
    - Isobar
      
      I disagree, we have all sorts of issues at the moment and people right now want to see what alternate solutions could look like. Without that the government will continue setting the agenda and National will continue to always be several steps behind.
      
      I am not expecting an full manifesto at the moment, but National need to start setting the agenda rather than following it. To do that they could have come out with a couple of great policy ideas to get the conversation started and to start to build momentum. The whole leave things to the last minute approach didn’t really work out well for them last time, so maybe its worth doing things differently this time.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:10pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Hi Tony,
      Keep powder dry. Or rather miss the chance for a shot because your musket isn’t loaded when a head appears?
      Recently David Seymour has stated his vision around changes to how MIQ might work, so a vacuum of policy means that National aren’t in the news for having different ideas – or as an alternative government – but only for supposed ‘disarray’ or ‘barking at cars’.
      Seem to be coming less relevant.
      
      That said, I wish National all the best.
      The media is the enemy, even more so that Labour – since Labour is in the process of making so many mistakes they are actually doing a service to the opposition.
      
      David also seems to do better with his zingers, such as Kainga Ora paying $10,000 for a statue and his sound byte being ‘You cant live inside a statue’.
      It works on radio, TV and in print.
      I am seeing people I wouldnt have previously suspected on Facebook both criticising the government, and even saying nice things about Act!
      Judith hasnt had a fair suck of the sav yet.
      Muller really knocked National down in the public eyes and Judith can’t (or sadly might not be the right person) to restore it.
      Dimwitted National MPs being sleazeballs didnt help.
      
      What would I suggest?
      Never speak in the media with more than 1 or 2 sentences at a time, so they cant misrepresent a statement.
      Never explain a problem or an answer with too much detail.
      Use humour, be a mongrel.
      Rationality or measured words in itself is not enough in the age of enemedia and social media.
      
      I think National needs to change the way it speaks to the nation, via media – and that does NOT mean Twitter (which is stacked with Labour trolls).
      National cant be Labour Lite, and all things to all people. Choose a spot of ground, and put a stake down.
      The Demand the Debate thing doesnt actually hit the mark, since even a Labour-loathing mate of mine didn’t even know what He Puapua is.
      Rather, a billboard – “(1) Improve the lot of NZers of ALL skin colours. (2) No state should be structually divided along ethnic lines”.
      What’s the debate? There is NO debate in any case. At least then it hints at the issue, and the stance taken.
      Come out and say what you bloody stand for!
      
      National needs to do better, since Labour is a train wreck.
      And too many times I am hearing “National is not better”.
      National is not even succeeding at being the least worst at this moment. Sad facts.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:48pm
- Philview
  
  I bet we will not be hearing much about this one from the usual media
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:08am
- curry4me
  
  Tony Stuart: Bad news for Labour is good news for NZ.
  
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  August 12, 2021 4:19pm
- Mark
  
  In your dreams laddie .You have 6 more glorious years of St Jacinda to look forward too.Hallelujah.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:38pm
hullkiwi

Thank you USA for another failed intervention without a planned end game. This one took 20 years, but is ending with the same outcome as every other intervention. For the past 100 years the USA has intervened in conflicts, that have ended in stalemate, early withdrawal or an unsatisfactory peace.

Afghanistan, being the latest Vietnam.

Despite winning the cold War 30 years ago, there are no democracies in Asia free of corruption (even South Korea and Japan have there moments). There is a litany of tyrannical and despotic countries from North Africa eastwards to the Pacific that over the past 100 years have been the subject of US foreign policy or intervention,one way or another.

It is now 42 years since the Soviets entered Afghanistan, 30 years since the islamists took over and nearly 20 years since the US led invasion, all to achieve what? Vietnam Mark II, take a bow Bush, Obama, Trump & Biden.
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August 12, 2021 8:19am
- Frank the tank
  
  Trump is not to blame. You can blame him for A LOT of things of his own makings moreover his views of Afghanistan have been consistent and coherent.
  
  The other 3 however……..
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:37am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Trump is as guilty as the other 3. Under his watch, they started the peace process/talks with the Taliban and plans for withdrawal of forces, continued by Biden.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:29am
- Scott
  
  hullkiwi – can’t agree with all of that. The United States did intervene in World War I and World War II within the last hundred years and did pretty well.
  
  The problem with Afghanistan has been that they entered into a war that they could not win. The idea that Afghanistan would become a democracy is ludicrous. Maybe a short action to get rid of Bin Laden would have made some sense after 9/11.
  But to blindly go on year after year, achieving nothing, was the worst kind of foolishness.
  
  The Americans are better out of it. Getting into endless wars costing many lives and trillions of dollars made no sense.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:41am
  - david
    
    I didn’t miss your point Scott and concur with what you say, but the pedant within has insisted that I point out that WW1 ended 102 and a bit years ago.
    So perhaps reference to the last couple of centuries might be more accurate
    Tempus fugit and all that.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:10am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Scott, the US intervened in a war that ws a stalemate by 1917, and helped formulate the Treaty of Versailles, and the failed League of Nations. This helped collapse Germany & give rise to Hitler.
    
    WWII in Europe happened because of the above. The US did not get involved until 1942, and then compelled Churchill at Yalta to let the Soviets march across Eastern Europe. Meaning Europe was divided for 50 years and many of the stares are basket cases to this day (Albania, Bulgaria, Kosovan, Serbia etc).
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:38am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Scott, Iraq2 was no better. Got rid of Hussain and there was no plan for after. The excuse was they were not there to nation build. Which was true, they were there for the oil.
    
    The Arab spring was no different. It was fermented by the CIA, and now we have Russians in Libya, helping to gain control of Libyian oil. Brilliant.
    
    US intervention (often for commercial reasons), aided by its NATO allies over the past 100 years has not brought peace or democracy anywhere (except Grenada).
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:47am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  That’s what war is: a load of bad things that happen in order to stop even worse things from happening.
  
  Nobody knows what Al Qaeda and the Taliban would have done if they had been left alone. Nobody knows how much of South-East Asia would now be communist if Vietnam had been ignored.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:42am
- krazykiwi
  
  Based on 2018 figures, the US is the worlds largest arms exporter with $US10.5b in sales. This is the same as #2 Russia, #3 France, #4 Germany and #5 Spain combined.
  
  Perhaps their interventions as are simply long-running trade shows for potential buyers, and long-running threats to potential aggressors?
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:47am
  - cmm
    
    Naah, it’s more of a way to get rid of old equipment that is beyond its Best Before date to make room for new shiny toys.
    
    Unfortunately a lot of the new toys are just not up to the job. There is no practical replacement to the obsolete (49-year old) A10 Warthog.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:37am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yeah, that makes some sense
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:47am
      - cmm
        
        It is somewhat ironic that new engineering does not produce better war machines, just better toys for the engineers.
        
        Not a single useful aircraft in the US Airforce was designed since engineers stopped using slide rules. Pretty much the same for tanks and artillery, etc.
        
        C130: 1950s.
        A10, F16: 1970s.
        M1 Abrams: 1970s
        M119 howitzer: 1960s.
        M4 rifle: early 1980s.
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:13am
      - Sponge
        
        My favourite cmm is the M2 Browning .50 cal. Designed in 1933 and still in use.
        
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        August 12, 2021 7:12pm
- kevn
  
  @Hull… China will be next to line up and have crack. It is a gateway to the Middle East and is one of Chinas neighbours.
  They better be quick though, the country is in chaos.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:53am
  - Frank the tank
    
    China won’t be dumb and fight a military conflict. They’ll infiltrate the Taliban over time, assist with infrastructure funding, take their exports, plant CCP operatives in government institutions and otherwise get to a point whereas the Taliban are dependent on the CCP for their economic and political survival therefore being able to manipulate them without one bullet being fired.
    
    Sound familiar?
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:13am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I think it was Confucious who said that fighting is the most barbaric form of warfare.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:09am
    - yossarian
      
      Was it Alexander the Great who said “you never own an Afghan, you only rent him”
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:12am
      - oldfella
        
        yossarian, that “you never own an Afghan, you only rent him” quote takes on a whole new meaning if, as some historians believe, Alexander was gay. 😉
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:47am
    - kevn
      
      @Frank… Yep, they will have a crack at control in the Chinese way. Main motivation is that Afghanistan is very rich in natural resources. Look at how Africa has been done over.
      But, much trickier, Afghanistan is such a tribal country be like herding wild cats.
      China plans 100-150 years out, so no rush, it will likely happen.
      Meanwhile back in the (NZ) jungle… the clowns have taken over.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:35am
    - Paulus
      
      China will be watching the Taliban being ferocious as the last thing China needs now is Muslim (Uighurs are Muslims) problems on their western borders.
      
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      August 12, 2021 1:45pm
    - Mark
      
      First comment you have posted i can agree with.Keep it up.
      
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      August 12, 2021 9:42pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Afghanistan is unfixable without removing the scourge of antediluvian death-worshiping fundamentalism that afflicts it, and western ethics prevent the necessary measures to achieve that from being taken (As would have been done by any conquering nation prior to the last 100 years). So in the name of maintaining ethical standards we condemns who knows how many future generations of Afghani women to savage and bleak lives of pseudo-slavery as play things for men.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:45am
  - Mark
    
    agree.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:54pm
- Jack5
  
  Not just the United States, Hullkiwi.
  
  Britain tried and failed to persuade its Nato partners to make a joint stand with it in Afghanistan after the United States withdrew.
  
  Apart from Britain, the European allies don’t seem interested in fighting the Taliban. Don’t forget New Zealand and Australia also withdrew their troops from Afghanistan.
  
  The Afghan war has cost the United States more than $US2 trillion over 20 years. Who can blame America from getting out?
  
  Neighbouring Pakistan, which has played a double game, deserves the consequences of the withdrawal.
  
  The people of Afghanistan are already paying the price, with the Taliban seizing girls from houses to be concubines or wives for their soldiers.
  
  Time to get Hager the Horrible and the Stuff Special Investigations Team over to Kabul to sort things out.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:13am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Yes, I agree. The UK and the EU were the problem with the former Yugoslavia in 1991/92 and everything that followed.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:52am
- dcrane
  
  Seemed to me that Trump was trying to pull out through most of his presidency. Since the Democrats and their deep-state allies resisted him the whole time, we can’t be sure.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:41am
  - hullkiwi
    
    True. Trump favoured withdrawal and set up the peace talks with the Taliban.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:53am
    - cmm
      
      There are peace talks and there are peace talks.
      
      Peace talks with effective negotiators get a far different outcome than those with ineffective negotiators.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:15am
Benedict Yu

I am not going to repeat my diatribe about the Government’s plans for indefinite border restrictions to pursue covid “elimination”, shortly to have a Maori name.

But I am dismayed that no journalists in the media asked the obvious questions given the evolution of the delta variant and its efficacy at preventing infection and transmission.

The obvious question is “In the absence of a new generation of vaccines, how will border restrictions and quarantine ever end? The answer is that they can NEVER end unless a second generation of vaccines are highly efficacious in preventing transmission of delta and any other variants that emerge.

What is the media there for?
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August 12, 2021 8:20am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “What is the media there for?”
  
  To collect $55m.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:25am
  - Paulus
    
    Isn’t it actually $105 million ($50 plus $55) ?
    And more expected before the election.
    
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    August 12, 2021 8:30am
    - cmm
      
      When you consider all the CV19 and Three Waters ads that re running (etc etc), I’ll bet it’s a lot higher than that.
      
      Unfortunately the same basic principle applies to all the others that should be speaking up. Academics and researchers who are telling us 80,000 will die etc.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:18am
  - Tricati
    
    And promote Labour’s agenda
    
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    August 12, 2021 8:42am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There is no end in sight until every little child in NZ is safely vaccinated…and that’s with the proviso that none of the Covid-19 vaccines are 100% effective.
  
  At least, that’s what I take from this latest piece from Assoc Professor Wiles.
  
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/12-08-2021/siouxsie-wiles-we-all-want-to-open-up-to-the-world-heres-what-we-need-to-do-first/
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    From her article: –
    
    Sticking to our elimination strategy for now means two things: limiting introductions of the virus into the country and stamping out community transmission if it happens. I think what’s happening in New South Wales shows that if we do get community transmission with the delta variant we really can’t mess around
    
    Wiles, I’ll show you what’s happening in NSW => Is This a Dystopian Satire? No, it’s Daily Life Down Under
    
    Further, sticking to our futile elimination strategy means thinking we know better than the world’s top scientists, medical professionals and Covid battle-weary leaders.
    
    Sticking to our elimination strategy is nuts. It will cost countless more lives of the young an previously healthy.
    
    And you, Wiles, will have blood on your hands.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:05am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Funny isn’t it?
      
      We only ever hear about Australia being a “disaster area”
      
      What about… Tas, WA, SA, NT, QL? All doing perfectly fine
      
      But no, it’s only ever Sydney and Melbourne that our media looks at
      
      As I said before, I was in QL and watched both NZ and Aus tv news (not Sky btw). NZ: “it’s all doom, gloom and terror” Aus: “Wear your masks, wash your hands, keep your distance and carry on”
      
      This f*cking country, its media and its residents are so immature it beggars belief
      
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      August 12, 2021 9:29am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Let’s put that in the same place at zero carbon emissions and eliminating child “poverdee” shall we?
    
    Fucking impossible.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:14am
  - cmm
    
    There is an end in sight, but it is still a way off.
    
    Just like very pandemic in history (and this is by no means anywhere near the worst), it will just go away after two years or so and drift into the background. Same as Asian flu, HK flu and Spanish flu.
    
    Of course things are being delayed here so our two years haven’t really started yet.
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:38am
- RoboRob
  
  The current generation of Vaccines at ~95% effective are much more effective than the annual flu vaccine for example. Whilst less effective against the new Delta strain they are still more effective than the typical flu vax. I don’t see any situation, under the current government and advisors, where the border can open. Even if a 100% effective vax was developed.
  
  The idea that we can stand zero infection and even one death is too many, means we will forever cower in fear. Lucky for us this govt hasn’t taken this approach with cars or bicycles, if they had these would be illegal and there would be dawn raids on cycle / car enthusiasts 🙂
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:59am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You are mistaken
    
    The vaccines reduce your chances of getting covid by 50 percent. But if you catch covid while vaccinated you are highly infectious.
    
    The vaccine reduces your chances of serous illness by 90+ percent and death by 95+ percent
    
    So to repeat the vaccine is NOT 95 percent effective in preventing transmission. If it was we would end the pandemic.
    
    I am not going to provide citations because I am on my phone. But this data is in the public domain in the UK and USA.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:36am
    - RoboRob
      
      No
      
      The science is not settled on how infections you are if you catch it while vaccinated. Most studies show vaccinated people as less infections than un vaccinated. Although I am sure there are others showing the opposite. As I said, not settled.
      
      I never said the vax was ’95 percent effective in preventing transmission’. The effectiveness discussed has always been around preventing serious illness. As I said above the transmission levels are still being studied.
      
      The whole point is avoiding death / serious illness. It really doesn’t matter if the whole population gets the virus if it only results in a mild cold. Right?
      
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      August 12, 2021 9:42am
      - tf78
        
        Robrob, wasn’t Covid before the vaccine at 98% recovery rate anyway. Seems to me vaccines have just been a very big money making exercise for the Pharmaceutical companies and apparently making matters worse than naturally gained immunity.
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:38am
      - cmm
        
        You’re saying the science is not settled, yet still boldly make a claim of 95% effectiveness. How does that work?
        
        In what way do you claim the 95% effectiveness. It definitely is not 95% effective at stopping people from being infected.
        
        Any massive changes in effectiveness at causing deaths will have to come from changing the methodology used in counting CV19 cases.
        
        Remember that anyone that dies while returning a positive PCR test has been claimed as a CV19 death regardless of the actual cause of death. If we keep that up then the numbers won’t go down by 95% because people will continue to return positive test results forever.
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:45am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The USA is providing good data.
        
        99.5 percent of all deaths from covid are now in the unvaccinated.
        https://www.krqe.com/health/coronavirus/vaccine/us-is-split-between-the-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-and-deaths-and-hospitalizations-reflect-this-divide/
        
        Hospitals in places like Mississippi where vaccination rates are low are swamped with mainly middle aged people in intensive care. Because the over 80s are mostly vaccinated. It is the unvaccinated folk in their 40s 50s and 60s who are now dying.
        
        On the other hand if you live in the Eastern seaboard states where vaccination rates are high life is normal.
        
        So no the science is not settled. But right now the case for being vaccinated is overwhelming.
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:58am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Benedict, the reduction in serious illness and death isn’t clear but I doubt it is that high. The “new” variants are themselves less lethal it seems and much of the reduction in hospitalisation is down to that. This is clear from the fact that the hospitalisation rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated is not that different (not hugely better for vaccinated, but possibly a bit better).
      
      We can’t use NZ figures as we don’t have enough cases, but there is quite a lot of info available from Israel, Gibraltar, and Iceland as well as other places in Europe. These numbers are still evolving, the initial Israeli figures suggested that there was no benefit from the vaccination, but later numbers do seem to show that vaccinated people do get hospitalised up to 50% less – this may change further as the cases accumulate.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:21am
      - cmm
        
        New variants from here on are as lethal as they are: maybe more lethal, maybe less lethal.
        
        A “new” variant is far more likely to be less lethal than more lethal due to regression to the mean (ie. severe viruses are outliers and changes are more likely to drift towards less lethal). That does not preclude more lethal variants though.
        
        But your point is well made: the new variants (delta etc) have a completely different profile from previous generations. There are numerous other variables in play too – including the harvesting effect.
        
        It is broken to compare the stats of a year ago to the stats of today and put it all down to the vaccine (one way or the other).
        
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        August 12, 2021 11:52am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Benedict, the reduction in serious illness and death isn’t clear but I doubt it is that high”
        
        OK show me your data. I check global data every morning and story is the same everywhere. If you are vaccinated you are very very unlikely to become seriously ill.
        
        And the delta variant is more contagious and equally virulent as preceding variants.
        
        I’ll change my mind when the data changes.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:06pm
      - Stu2
        
        Actually the reduction in death and serious illness is extremely clear as Benedict has said – the seriously covid ill and dead in US hospitals are virtually all unvaccinated
        
        And the high case numbers and consequent hospital populations are concentrated in states with low vaccination rates
        
        They have enough vaccine that this was almost totally preventable
        
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        August 12, 2021 1:29pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Here’s a no holds barred commentary of how the UK has ended up in a mess
  
  Being generous, we could blame an incompetent Government blindsided by a ‘pandemic’ that hit just as it was popping the cork on finally ‘getting Brexit done’. But the actions it took went beyond naïvety and entered the realms of the Kafka-esque nonsensical. The last 18 months have been those of U-turns and false predictions followed by denials; hirings and firings of ‘experts’ paid to find or fabricate the evidence to fit the theory; promises to follow ‘the science’, to go by ‘data not dates’ – and then do the opposite. The mainstream media has refused to ask tough questions, social platforms have censored anything that doesn’t fit the fear narrative, scientists and medics and employees across the spectrum have lost their jobs and reputations for daring to speak out or refuse injection. The nurses on the ‘front line’ who worked around the clock last year without a vaccine will now be fired if they choose not to have one. This is their reward. The elites have flourished while the proles festered.
  
  Much blame should be laid at the Government’s door for frightening its citizens and turning them into nodding, clapping, cheering automatons. But the people are not themselves entirely blameless, and tyranny does not operate in a vacuum. We are responsible for collectively swallowing the lies, the deceit, the buried evidence, the false predictions, the censored questions, the fairy tales told from Rose Gardens dreamed up in Barnard Castles in the air. Gullible en masse, we have refused to believe the evidence of our eyes, dropping last week’s headlines down the memory hole in favour of the latest scare, forgetting that the Government promised no further lockdowns, no vaccine passports, no jabbing of the under-18s, abandoning that most precious of resources: common sense.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:30am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Yeah, well kiwi, it has to be remembered that Boris was EXCORIATED by the media when he suggested herd immunity. And the Brits all fell in behind. They got what they asked for, so their bleats at the 11th hour aren’t worth a blob of goat shit.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:07pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Using lockdowns to control spread of Covid in future won’t be justified and efforts should focus on protecting the most vulnerable, SAGE adviser says.
    
    Anyone tell Ardern?
    
    And if they did, would she listen?
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:44pm
- Surely Knott
  
  My question is if we repeatedly use low effectiveness vaccines on Covid, does it just encourage the virus to evolve into stronger variants just like drench resistant worms?
  
  Of the 6 kiwi scholarship athletes who caught covid in the USA, at least three of them were fully vaccinated. Breakthrough infections don’t seem rare.
  
  Telegraph reports latest science showed fully vaccinated and unvaccinated who caught covid had the same level of viral load and both could spread it.
  
  /www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-six-new-zealand-athletes-on-us-scholarships-catch-virus/EXD3KUTTFNVXXOKDAJSASRYYJU/
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  First question is there an actual virus? The WHO have denied their testing regime (they say we all should be re-tested).
  https://www.globalresearch.ca/does-the-virus-exist-the-sars-cov-2-has-not-been-isolated-biggest-fraud-in-medical-history/5752066
  Meanwhile the Great Reset plan is being fulfilled.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:45am
  - tf78
    
    Kev O – thanks for that now my brain hurts.
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:53am
Maggy Wassilieff

Our open and transparent Government has blocked Dr Bloomfield from being recalled to the Health Select Committee to explain why he made incorrect statements last week.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2108/S00105/government-blocks-bloomfield-recall-again.htm

It’s not as if he hasn’t got a lot of things to explain at the moment.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-bad-week-for-bloomfields-ministry
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August 12, 2021 8:21am
- Tony Stuart
  
  This is an appallingly partisan decision from the Labour-dominated Health select committee. The only opportunity Opposition MP’s (and MP’s in general) have to question senior public servants is at select committee.
  
  Dr Bloomfield admitted last week that he had misled the select committee over circumstances surrounding the urgent transfer of a UN official with Covid to Auckland from Fiji. That’s a serious matter, for which he needs to provide an explanation to the select committee.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:33am
  - Tricati
    
    The fact Labour wont allow Bloomfield to attend the select committee, and be questioned, speaks volumes as to the number and degree of cock-ups the Ministry of Health has overseen.
    There is no doubt Helen Clark was donkey deep in the decision to bring UN staffer from Fiji, and Labour will use all its resources to protect the ‘Queen Bee’.
    
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    August 12, 2021 8:45am
  - Mark
    
    oh fuck off
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:55pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Whilst he is there if he has a few moments in his busy life of covid, he could actually address this.
  New Zealand excess mortality currently 4.84 %, People are dying, just not of covid.
  What you read in fear porn news everyday is just not true.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:02am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Greg, where did you source this statistic?
    
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    August 12, 2021 2:25pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases
    
    go to excess mortality and put in NZ pretty much been up since November reaching a high of 17% in January. It did drop below zero for a week at the end of June.
    
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    August 12, 2021 3:08pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Thanks
      
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      August 12, 2021 6:38pm
- gravedodger
  
  That utterly shameless avoidance of a very risky probability that St Ash may have been forced to admit some very embarrassing details on several matters within his field of operations was just too great.
  It might be very revealing to have seen the conversations between the Ninth floor Spin army and the Political managers of the MSM, this week.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:28am
- cmm
  
  That’s very kind of you to let this slide as an “incorrect statement”.
  
  It was not just a mistake. It was a damn bald-faced lie!
  
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  August 12, 2021 2:17pm
Maggie's partner

Last night I had a dream……..

Her Royal Highness the Comrade Queen of New Rhodesia, Dame Cindee Huggihuggi, looked down at her adoring public as they chanted slavishly “We’ve got the power, we’ve got the power” and prostrated themselves before the dais upon which her splendid throne stood tall.

How she loved these mass rallies, when her subjects celebrated their shared role in government, and acknowledged her supreme kindness. Truly they were worthy of their place in society.

And today was a special day; she planned to announce the name of the lucky farmer whose name had been selected by a Roy Morgan poll for early release from the Green Education programme.
Her people loved their farmers, and she knew the announcement would be greeted with rapturous applause and an impromptu outbreak of tree planting and spontaneous acts of kindness.

The crown rose onto one knee, together to sing the National Song…

“We all know how lucky we are
tearoa
We all know how lucky we are”

She and her number 2 partner Ash, who was attending her that day, joined in lustily.

Ash left as soon as the song finished, he was playing for the All Blacks later that day, and the throng below them began to disburse, huge lines forming besides the pick up point for the single electric bus which served the entire Northerly Isle.

Cindee mounted her eBike and sped off in the opposite direction. Her helmet mounted Go Pro streamed her direct to Facebook. This was what it was all about, she thought to herself.
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August 12, 2021 8:23am
- oldfella
  
  MP: The National song…
  “We all know how lucky we are
  tearoa
  We all know how lucky we are”
  Love it!! 🙂
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:07am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie’s partner: Excellent Sir! (assuming you are male, and neither you nor Maggie is an invert.)
  
  As a man who values good – and funny – writing, I give that effort a solid 10/10
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Brilliant.
  MaggiePie is such a lucky bird.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:26am
Tony Stuart

Here’s a photograph of Winston Churchill’s response to the Greens taking down his portrait from the walls of Parliament:

https://twitter.com/TonyStuart55/status/1425390792881836034
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August 12, 2021 8:35am
- graham
  
  When I first heard about this, my immediate reaction was that I was pretty bloody angry. As someone of British heritage, this is my history they are callously trampling over.
  
  But I calmed down pretty quickly, because … well, it’s just the Greens. I mean, if this was an individual MP or a party that I:
  a. had some respect for,
  b. could take seriously, or
  c. was, in ANY way, important or actually mattered
  then it would be different, and I’d probably still be angry.
  
  But it’s just the Greens. It’s like watching a five-year-old have a temper tantrum; it’s impossible to take them seriously.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:12am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What else can we expect? We have already had (offensive) Muslim prayer in Parliament.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:49am
  - tf78
    
    graham, and most of them are bloody imports who are lucky to be here in New Zealand. Ungrateful, ignorant fools they are.
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:59am
- Ed Snack
  
  The Covid test further down that page you link to is pretty good too, Tony !
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:25am
lifesgood

Is it just me who gets the sense that anger about being imprisoned in NZ is beginning to grow?
John Key, on Hosking this morning, didn’t hold back. Without actually saying it he intimated that this government is a bunch of clueless nincompoops. Hear, hear.

If you are double vaccinated you should be free to go anywhere you want. It is so frustrating and depressing to see my friends and family in the UK gaily traveling all over Europe with no quarantine on return. Unfortunately this country is invested with too many nervous Nellies. Nevertheless, the grumbles I hear out and about are building to a crescendo.
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August 12, 2021 8:35am
- Cinematic
  
  It’s not just you.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:46am
- Ed Snack
  
  Well, no. The vaccination is relatively ineffective at preventing you catching or passing on the virus. It *may* reduce your odds of becoming seriously ill.
  
  If you have ready had Covid, your acquired immunity is much stronger (pace the Dominion opinion writer who claims that the vaccine is better – idiot).
  
  Current vaccines, at least the most common mRNA ones, do not appear to be particularly good as a game changing tactic. Possibly newer versions and non-mRNA ones will improve this.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:28am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The vaccines are 50 percent effective at preventing transmission. That is not relatively ineffective.
    
    And there is no “may” about it. They drastically reduce serious illness and death.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:10pm
Simon

So the Green wankers wanted Churchill picture taken down.

Churchill leading the Brit Empire & Commonwealth faced Nazi Germany down during the summer of 1940.

At the time of Churchill’s great victory for Western civilisation Nazi Germany had a peace pact & massive economic trade deals with the Soviet Union. That is marxist turds like the Greens were ideologically & politically bound with the Nazis.

Churchill’s greatest moment at time when marxist sewage of the day like Shaw, Davidson & March were in the Nazi camp. No wonder they want Churchill gone. A reminder, one of so many, of their shameful past they want removed.
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August 12, 2021 8:36am
- David Garrett
  
  Simon: Hear hear…but I was very disappointed at Judith Collins’ wishy washy reaction to this, which included the statement that WSC had “made mistakes”…Of course he fucking made mistakes – particularly when events of the early and mid 20th century are judged through the lens of today.
  
  His description of Ghandi as “a half naked fakir of a type well known in the East” is very offensive today, but in the 1930’s, when gentlemen all dressed for dinner, and the most casual attire ever worn was plus fours – and long socks so as not to expose flesh – on the golf course, the description would have seemed entirely accurate, if a bit naughty.
  
  There is not the slightest doubt that WSC was the greatest statesman of the 20th Century, and to a considerable extent he shaped the world we live in 80 years later.
  
  Had the Brits been knocked out of the war in 1940, and the Nazis invaded, which I am certain they would have, there is no way the Yanks would have extended the war they faced 18 months later in the Pacific to Europe.
  
  Japan would inevitably still have been defeated but who knows how long the Nazis would have controlled Europe? The Communists controlled half of it for fifty years.
  
  I had better stop before this becomes a guest post rather than a comment!
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:39am
  - RockyJ
    
    The objection the Greens seem to have to Churchill seems to be that “he was a racist”. Certainly he had a low opinion of Islam.
    Hitler on the other hand had a high opinion of Islam, so I guess he would be OK.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:08am
    - Nickc2
      
      Islam is a Religion, not a Race so how can Churchill and Hitler be Racists?
      
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      August 12, 2021 1:35pm
      - RockyJ
        
        I know, it’s crazy isn’t it? But that is how the Greens see it.
        
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        August 12, 2021 2:01pm
  - Jack5
    
    …there is no way the Yanks would have extended the war they faced 18 months later in the Pacific to Europe.
    
    If the Russians had been able to keep fighting, the Americans would have been able to keep supplying them over the Alaska-Siberia link.
    
    American aid motorised the vast Red Army when it began its rollback from Stalingrad. Here’s some of the equipment America supplied Russia:
    
    – 400,000 jeeps & trucks.
    – 14,000 airplanes.
    – 13,000 tanks.
    – 1.5 million blankets.
    – 15 million pairs of army boots.
    – 2.7 million tons of petrol products.
    – 4.5 million tons of food.
    
    Russians quite liked the Aircobra fighters from America, though later they weren’t so keen on Spitfires that Britain spared them. Western Allied pilots didn’t rate the Aircobra so highly.
    
    It’s surprising that the Russians used Western tanks, considering the Soviet Union made 84,000 T34s.
    
    The Russians liked the little British Valentine infantry tanks that were used by NZ territorials back in the day. Moscow asked Britain to keep making these until late in the war.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:39am
    - David Garrett
      
      Jack 5: All very interesting – and all correct so far as I know – but you are missing my point entirely.
      
      The Yanks only massively supplied the Russians because they were on the same side fighting Nazism. Had Britain fallen, regardless of whether Barbarossa went ahead or not, which pitted the Nazis against the Russians, the Yanks wouldn’t have given the Russians so much as a truck.
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:54am
      - David Garrett
        
        …but as a student of WW II I am interested in your claim that the Yanks supplied the Russians with tanks…the more so since as you say, the Russians made the highly effective T-34 which overall was better than anything the Germans had until the Tiger, and IIRC the T-34 still had its advantages over the Tiger…speed for one.
        
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        August 12, 2021 10:58am
      - Jack5
        
        Yes, it is surprising that the Russians, with their fine tanks, wanted American and British tanks.
        
        Among the armour sent to the Soviet Union by the United States were 2,000 Sherman tanks, enough to equip 10 American armoured divisions.
        
        Other American tanks included the M5 Stuart and the M3 Lee.
        
        British tanks supplied to the Soviet Union included the previously mentioned infantry tank, the Valentine. Production of these moved to Canada after 1942, and more than 1400 were manufactured for shipment to the Soviet Union. I think Britain also shipped Matilda and Churchill tanks to Russia.
        
        Here’s a picture of a Sherman tank being salvaged from a ship sunk in the Barents Sea with a lend-lease cargo from the United States.
        
        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703900/Russian-sailors-pull-American-tank-Second-World-War-surface-spent-70-years-bottom-ocean.html
        
        DG, as someone interested in World War 2 and in its aerial warfare, you might also be interested in this video, by a German military historian, why lend-lease Spitfires weren’t always liked by the Soviet pilots … e.g., they were old, they were early models, had no manuals, spare parts for them were in short supply, and Russian-made aircraft were improving by this stage.
        
        Later Britain sent a thousand Spitfire Mark 9 planes to the Soviet Union, but these weren’t fully used, the historian says.
        
        https://youtu.be/l3KhizcH3vs
        
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        August 12, 2021 2:05pm
      - Jack5
        
        Addendum: Here’s a detailed piece on American Lend Lease armoured vehicle and aircraft suppied to the Soviet Union in World War 2.
        
        https://www.ww2-weapons.com/lend-lease-tanks-and-aircrafts/
        
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        August 12, 2021 2:40pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        DG @10.58
        
        In 1942 the Soviet Union faced a tank production crisis because the dismantled factories withdrawn from territory now occupied by Germany didn’t start producing until autumn – the only continuously manufacturing plant was at Stalingrad – so I guess the USSR was glad for anything it could get that year.
        
        The T 34 had obvious strengths but also serious defects. The gearbox was recalcitrant – some drivers carried a maul to knock the gear lever into position; the two-man turret meant that the commander doubled as loader; the turret, lacking a self-contained basket, was quite quite un-ergonomic; most early models lacked a radio; locked down, the commander had inferior all-round vision compared to German commanders; gun sights were inferior to German optics.
        
        Consequently, battlefield awareness and control of tank forces were both poor; German tankers counted on getting off two rounds before their opponents realised they were being fired upon, and with the higher velocity cannons increasingly fitted from late 1942, could confidently engage the T 34 at long range. Not surprisingly, Soviet tank losses were five times those of German losses throughout 1942 – 1944. Not until 1945 did German losses, through fuel shortages, surrender and abandonment in retreat, approach Soviet losses.
        
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        August 12, 2021 6:11pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    For my generation it wasn’t the mistakes, if any, WSC made, it was surviving the war. We saw the gruesome remnants of Auschwitz and those movies still haunt. Honour was satisfied. Now it is discarded, critical race theory and greedy intolerance. All need to be allowed to live peacefully but sometimes that may mean prior protection required. Other nations will do as they please and that must be tolerated within their borders. We do not have a Policeman of the world and we cannot be forced into one mold.
    
    The Yanks finished off the Japs and life was slowly allowed to re-form.
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:01am
  - tf78
    
    David, Peta Credlin mentioned Judith’s reaction last night and said “Well she’d get my vote”. I say she handled perfectly as it hit the news and also pressed a few buttons.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:03pm
    - Mark
      
      in your dreams
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:08pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh, surely the aesthetics of the entrance to your office are of the utmost importance.
  
  Every interior designer knows that it’s first impressions that count..
  
  It’s so reassuring that some folks in Parliament are attending to these neglected aspects of visual well-being.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:52am
  - sooty
    
    Along with how cheaply it was done.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:25am
  - Tall Man
    
    It’s all they care about, appearances not substance, much like ardern.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:38am
Critical Thinker

BREAKING
Pfizer shares plummet 19% as the EMA evaluates three new possible side-effects of the experimental mRNA COVID19 “vaccine”.

Erythema multiforme, Glomerulonephritis and Nephrotic syndrome, are the 3 new possible side-effects that are now being studied by the EMA safety committee.
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/moderna-biontech-stock-price-pfizer-eu-covid-vaccine-side-effects-2021-8

Back in June the FDA added a warning about Myocarditis heart inflammation from the Pfizer’s experimental mRNA “vaccines”.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthcare/fda-adds-warning-about-rare-heart-inflammation-to-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines

Last December the FDA listed the following as possible side effects to the experimental ‘vaccine”.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8iFVjQVIAI_MCX?format=jpg
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August 12, 2021 8:36am
- RoboRob
  
  Pfizer shares down 3.9% after rising almost 5% yesterday. Its called the Fking share market!
  
  https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PFE?p=PFE
  
  Whilst everyone can have an opinion. Thats a straight up lie. I see that first linked article is where your headline comes from but it’s simply not true. What they have done is add Modernas 15% drop and Pfizers 4% drop together. What they don’t tell you is that Most Pharma stocks (except Pfizer) took a big hit this week as investers realised they were over valued compared to earnings.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:08am
- virtualmark
  
  Um, I think you’ll find this is for Moderna, not Pfizer.
  
  And note that so far there have been over 350 million doses of the Moderna vaccine given (44m in Europe), but that the European Medicines Agency is looking into a “small number of cases” that “may be linked”.
  
  The reality is that if you gave any medicine to everyone in your population then there would be a small number of people whose genetics and biochemistry would lead them to have complications. This was known and understood before the vaccination programs began.
  
  Meanwhile, there are 164 million fully vaccinated Americans and the statistics are showing:
  99.9% have tested not positive for Covid
  0.08% have had “breakthrough” Covid
  0.004% have been hospitalised with Covid
  0.001% have died of Covid
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:24am
  - RoboRob
    
    Thanks Virtualmark
    
    It is just too easy to pull up random articles on the internet and create FUD around vaccines, cellphones etc.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:46am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    “Um, I think you’ll find this is for Moderna, not Pfizer.”
    
    It’s for Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine
    
    “99.9% have tested not positive for Covid
    0.08% have had “breakthrough” Covid
    0.004% have been hospitalised with Covid
    0.001% have died of Covid”
    
    Source for such a ridiculous claim? yEspecially in light with what is happening in the rest of the world ?
    
    New Study: Pfizer Only 42% Effective Against Infection
    
    https://humanevents.com/2021/08/11/biden-admin-concerned-as-mayo-clinic-study-shows-pfizer-vaccine-dropped-to-42-effective/
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:47am
    - Jack5
      
      Here are the facts on the Pfizer share price. It looks to be higher than it was a couple of weeks ago.
      
      https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/PFE
      
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      August 12, 2021 10:44am
      - Biscuit
        
        Jack5, I copped some flak in here (as Trump was dumped by Twitter) for suggesting ‘Sit and wait, the market will outlast the orange buffoon’)
        
        The Trump fans all happily predicted Twitter would crash and burn.
        
        Twitter’s share price did, indeed, have a (tiny) fall.
        
        It hit a low of $US45.70 in January of this year when it wasn’t certain how the election result would go.
        
        It’s done a bit of fluctuating in the months since but today is sitting at around $US65.46.
        
        By my math, that’s a rise of some 43% in that time.
        
        Beats bank deposit rates!
        
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        August 12, 2021 4:45pm
    - virtualmark
      
      No, Moderna. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/covid-19-vaccine-safety-update/covid-19-vaccine-safety-update-spikevax-previously-covid-19-vaccine-moderna-11-august-2021_en.pdf
      
      The US vaccine statistics came from Ian Bremmer. https://twitter.com/ianbremmer I’ve met Ian, he’s a serious man, and seriously connected. I trust what he says.
      
      Yes the Covid vaccines are less effective at preventing breakthrough infections of the Delta variant. But they still provide extremely high protection against hospitalisation and death, even with Delta.
      
      Meanwhile, a major trial of Ivermectin shows “no effect whatsoever” on Covid. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid?_amp=true
      
      Look, you’re free to take Ivermectin and not have the vaccination. Your choice. But we all need to own the outcomes of our own choices.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:44am
      - virtualmark
        
        If you are looking for high-quality updates and data on Covid-19 then I recommend reading Bob Wachter’s twitter feed. https://twitter.com/Bob_Wachter
        
        He is the Chair of the UCSF Department of Medicine. I’ve not seen any political bias in his comments.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:07pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        One major trial, summaries by the LA Times? How many trials did they ignore in order to come up with one that gave their desired result?
        
        I suggest reviewing this: Ivermectin for COVID-19: real-time meta analysis of 62 studies. Perhaps send the LA Times this link, and ask which bits they disagree with.
        
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        August 12, 2021 2:31pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Can I also add that as far back as mid-2020 the vaccine manufacturers were saying their vaccines would not prevent breakthrough infections.
      
      They were clear that vaccinated people could/would still get Covid, but that if/when they did it would be a mild case, and that the contagious period would be a lot shorter.
      
      So the fact that we are seeing breakthrough infections is not a surprise to anyone who’s been closely involved in this.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:12pm
  - Tall Man
    
    So about the same as the non vaccinated population then?
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:02am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Can you provide a link for your statistics Virtual mark.
    164 million and .08% have had breakthrough covid?
    
    3 fully vaccinated nz track and field athletes on scholarship in america have all tested positive for covid
    
    And in NZ where both covid is extremely rare and vaccination low we have also had breakthrough infections. “On Tuesday, the Ministry of Health announced a border worker at Auckland Airport, who cleans planes, had tested positive for Covid-19 through routine testing, despite having received two doses of the Pfizer vaccine.”
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:10am
    - Surely Knott
      
      And incoming more breakthrough cases. Ozzy has 345 cases in NSW. Two people in their 90’s die. 1 had both pfizer shots. And the other had 1 Astra Zeneca. So 100% of people were vaccinated. 50% were double vaccinated. 100% of the deaths were breakthrough cases.
      
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      August 12, 2021 2:11pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Gosh, those clever folks in the US, eh?
    
    They’ve got it sooo right, while across the pond in Scotland Public Health Scotland Admits That the Majority of People Hospitalised and Testing Positive for Covid Are Vaccinated
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:23pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    My UK-based daughter received her second Pfizer jab in July, and 15 days later test positive for Covid-19. Was a bit unwell for 6-7 days, then fine again.
    
    So I call bullshit on your claims of infinitesimal break-thru rates.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:26pm
    - virtualmark
      
      You know, I don’t really care if you believe those statistics or not.
      
      You will have the personal choice of whether to take the vaccine or not. I don’t mind what you choose to do – that’s up to you. I absolutely expect 25% or so of the population will choose to not be vaccinated.
      
      But once everyone has had the *opportunity* to be vaccinated then we should re-open our borders and go back to our historical freedoms to travel.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:40pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        You’ve moved the goalposts. The I’m not debating vaccine choice and/or hesitancy.
        
        Your claim related to supposedly infinitesimal rates of breakthrough infections.
        
        I provided evidence of this being comprehensively disproven in Scotland, and anecdotal evidence to the contrary based on a family member.
        
        What is the providence of your claim that only 0.08% of fully vaccinated people have experienced breakthrough infections?
        
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        August 12, 2021 1:08pm
      - virtualmark
        
        No, I just can’t be bothered arguing with anti-vaxxer “freedumb” people – who are trying to make a political point rather than a public health one.
        
        The reliable public health info says that the vaccines are effective at minimising infection, hospitalisation and death. See for yourself at places like https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/ (Figure 2).
        
        But … you’re an adult and you can make your own decisions. Feel free to take a pass on the vaccine, and feel free to go down to your vet and load up on as much equine anti-worming medication as you can carry. I don’t care.
        
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        August 12, 2021 3:59pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Here’s another analysis of vaccine breakthrough infections, hospitalisations and deaths … https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html?
        The second table shows you rates per 100,000 people for infections, hospitalisations and deaths for vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
        
        Note that the case for vaccinations is so compelling that Donald Trump, Rupert Murdoch, Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson are all vaccinated. Hell, Fox News uses “vaccine passports”. You’re not making a political statement by arguing against Covid-19 vaccines – you’re just being a dumb rube for people who are setting you up.
        
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        August 12, 2021 4:13pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Sigh. I’ll try again: What is the providence of your claim that only 0.08% of fully vaccinated people have experienced breakthrough infections?
        
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        August 12, 2021 6:40pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Sigh. I answered that in my post from 11:44am.
        
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        August 12, 2021 9:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Around 63% of Israel’s population has been vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine …
but they are now experiencing their third wave of Covid-19 infections.

Some folks are onto their third vaccination.
https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general?utm_source=go.gov.il&utm_medium=referral
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August 12, 2021 8:40am
- Frank the tank
  
  LOL. Lockdowns/Masks 4Eva Maggie.
  
  Unless of course you are part of the elite.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:45am
- Critical Thinker
  
  How things are going for “Fully vaccinated” Israel versus wide-spread Ivermectin use India ?
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:49am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    CDC Considers 12 of the 13 Most Vaccinated Countries a Travel Risk
    
    Curiously, vaccination has had totally the opposite effect to what had been expected: 12 of the 13 countries on the Johns Hopkins list of the most vaccinated are currently listed by the CDC as “high” or even “very high” SARS-Cov-2 travel risk.
    
    The CDC and the World Health Organization (WHO) keep insisting that vaccination is effective against “serious illness and death” but this may be yet another important issue they have gotten wrong. Their notion of “herd immunity” was dead and buried with data coming out of Israel at the end of June already.
    
    https://thebl.tv/world-news/12-of-the-13-most-vaccinated-countries-in-the-world-are-considered-risky-for-travel-by-cdc.html
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:21am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes, this is interesting, isn’t it?
      
      The message we have been force-fed is that vaccines ‘solve’ the virus problem, and ‘allow’ countries to open up. But that’s not how it’s playing out. So, keep that mask on, do what you’re told (today) and they’ll update it all tomorrow. Oh, and continue to be fearful. Yes, like that. Well done.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:19pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  What benefits does the Pfizer vaccine offer against the Delta (Indian) strain?
  What about the strain to come after Delta? (The Lambda (Peruvian)) strain)?
  
  Surely there will be a need for a never-ending series of “booster” vaccines (along with corresponding stickers to be placed in your passport…)
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:50am
  - Tall Man
    
    They’re called “booster” because they boost the profits of the companies astute enough to con gullible politicians who are so keen to spend our money on snake oil.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  To quote someone vapid from their podium of truth, “it’s a tricky virus”.
  
  We need to stop agonizing over infections and focus instead on vaccination for the most at risk, strengthening treatment protocols for the rest of us, and critically, reversing the restriction of civil liberties that have been ‘justified’ by the lies and scaremongering of our leaders.
  
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  August 12, 2021 8:53am
  - RoboRob
    
    We need to vax as many people as possible to slow spread and reduce harm from infection. We need to treat covid like the flu and quit with the closed border once we have a decent percentage of the population vaccinated. Masks are a joke.
    
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    August 12, 2021 9:12am
    - Tall Man
      
      And yet as Israel and Iceland have shown the vaccination does not slow the spread nor reduce the harm.
      
      We need to face the fact that people die and if they are highly vulnerable they will die from almost any respiratory disease, vaccinated or not.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:19pm
      - Mark
        
        oi gonzo only because of the delta variant. do try to keep up.
        
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        August 12, 2021 10:11pm
  - Tall Man
    
    As we have both said, “positives” aren’t infections unless there are symptoms.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:06am
- Mark
  
  oh fuck off
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:02pm
Happychappy

Covid- 19 Coronavirus: Delta in New Zealand community would ‘risk collapsing or compromising our Health System’.
Doctors fear New Zealand Health system could quickly collapse in the event if a outbreak of the Delta variant of COVID-19.
A expert report into the reopening of our borders released yesterday said a similar outbreak to what is happening in New South Wales was likely this year dispite borders remaining closed for now- and the Health system was poorly resourced to deal with it..
It comes as the Government announced yesterday that it would plunge the country into a “swift and severe” lockdown if only a handful of cases of the virus are detected in the community.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-in-nz-community-would-risk-collapsing-or-compromising-our-health-system/C2A54DUXAQAWRTAPXDCWZXPFVU/
Hello where back to scare tactics once again an Jacinda Ardern knows this is the only scenario that will save her Government and give them a chance of victory at the 2023 General Election.
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August 12, 2021 8:44am
- RoboRob
  
  Apparently 1 patient in ICU with Covid is enough to bring our health system to it’s knees. Thats what AK DHB claimed when they initially rejected the Fijian / UN person!
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:13am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not correct. They were well aware that our health systems and protocols are not robust to guarantee zero transmission so why risk bringing in an already critical patient.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:08am
    - RoboRob
      
      Ok, I understood they original denial was due to insufficient capacity in ICU to cope with additional patients.
      
      If, as you say, it was about protocols being insufficient, we have a problem. There is no way the patient should have been allowed in.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:03am
      - Tall Man
        
        Pretty sure the “capacity” argument was a false flag because if not then who was punted out of ICU to make way for the Fijian?
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:10pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Actually NZ would probably be fairly hard hit initially if Covid became widespread. We haven’t had a “first wave” set of infections yet and there’s probably rather more distinctly vulnerable people out there than in places where Covid has already had a winnowing effect.
  
  If we focussed hard on early prophylactic treatment we’d be much better off, but that would probably be politically unacceptable so unlikely, unfortunately.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:34am
  - Tall Man
    
    Haven’t 22,700 of the “grannies” Batman wanted us to save already died?
    
    You are correct though, we have had a couple of benign years vis a vis elderly deaths so if covid doesn’t get them then any influenza or gastro outbreak will.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:07pm
    - Batman
      
      You’re welcome to stand at a podium as a politician and advocate for sacrificing our elders for a perceived economic benefit.
      
      You’d be a modern Lord Farquard!
      
      “Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.” Haha.
      
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      August 12, 2021 12:19pm
      - Tall Man
        
        No sacrifice needed Batman, the good lord sorts that out.
        
        Just for my personal pleasure, when the dust finally settles on this stupidity and the full stats and details are put out for all to see, will you be among the first to put your hand up and admit you were wrong or will do a cindy and blame the media or some other sucker.
        
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        August 12, 2021 12:26pm
      - Batman
        
        I’m sure you will claim a win no matter what the estimated losses would be.
        
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        August 12, 2021 2:09pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        What about the babies though Batman. Why didn’t they stop RSV at the border. 9 people have died in NZ and our hospitals have been at capacity. Where are the worldometer stats on RSV. Where are NZ’s mortality stats since 2018. Oh wait. We don’t need facts. Just look at the podium.
        
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        August 12, 2021 2:24pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    If we focussed hard on early prophylactic treatment we’d be much better off
    
    +10
    
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    August 12, 2021 2:42pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Other opinion has it that the new bogey-person strain is the working out of the presence of the presently “vaccinated”.
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:07am
Frank the tank

Listening to Ian Taylor on HDPA last night he had clearly been absorbed by Wokeborg sometime over the last 6 months.

I can’t help but believe his posting a partisan cartoon @Judith Collins was nothing more or less than trolling. And as all social media trolls do – he wanted an emotional response from a protagonist that he and his ilk could ridicule. He certainly got this.

Please someone try to justify Taylor was doing anything but trolling and if so, does he still deserve his knighthood?
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August 12, 2021 8:44am
- oldfella
  
  Frank, I watched that interview and had a different take on it. See my comments earlier in this thread.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:13am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Why didn’t he pick up the phone and talk directly to the leader of the opposition then?
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:37am
Simon

“Former NZ Prime Minister Sir John Key says the government should adopt a telethon-style approach to boost vaccination numbers and open up our borders by Christmas.”

Dont like Key much but he was clearly the most capable PM NZ has ever had. Highly intelligent and street smart. The polar opposite of the current gubermint & zero covid nut jobs.

Key understands need to open NZ, ro vax & in December when the weather is the best for 3 months.
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August 12, 2021 8:46am
- Frank the tank
  
  We could have given everyone $500 for getting fully vaccinated but alas Grunter and Beetroot “spent our load” on impregnating the housing market and corporate welfare for multinationals.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:18am
- virtualmark
  
  The current PM is brilliant at empathising with people who are in distress.
  
  The problem is that that’s not the PM’s job. The PM’s job is to focus on solving problems, not on sympathising with people who have problems.
  
  Jacinda plays a role that the royal family do in the UK. Go to the nice occasions, lap up the acclaim, show relatable empathy in the bad times, but don’t do any real work, and consider themselves to be above criticism.
  
  Lots of Kiwis seem to like that “Royal PM” approach. They get to take selfies and knit booties for Neve. But meanwhile shit isn’t getting done.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:28am
- lifesgood
  
  That’s a good post, Simon, but interested to know why you say you don’t like Key much and then go on to praise him as “the most capable PM NZ has ever had”. The left loathed him because he was a successful product of a solo mother and a state house, that is just not on, he got above his station.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:33am
  - Mark
    
    You sir are full of shit .ADMIT it you lost.Yee har
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:39pm
Drone

Whilst most of the on-line UK newspapers are little more than gossip trash this article may resonate with some New Zealanders https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9884589/If-Boris-thinks-Brits-pay-nose-green-boilers-hes-signing-death-warrant.html . The sentiments expressed are going to be felt all over the first world.
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August 12, 2021 8:50am
- David Garrett
  
  Drone: Thanks for that excellent link…but remind me: is the Daily Mail a usually right or left leaning paper? I don’t really know which is which among their minor papers (and at least over there, you know the Telegraph is “Tory” and the Guardian the opposite…here our papers just maintain a pretence of even handedness)
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:33am
  - Drone
    
    Hi David one has to say right leaning paper, but it has started attacking Johnson recently.
    
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    August 12, 2021 2:54pm
I remember when

Criticism of Cycling New Zealand and High Performance Sport New Zealand.
When you are professional your ability to decide your own future is compromised.
You become a business rather than a person so the balancing acts become more stressful.
Professional athletes ( in the sense that all sports people are athletes) experience a mixture of emotional highs and lows. It can be a precarious occupation with performance and financial stress always in the background.
An ideal example is the the end of an important team sport championship when one team is elated and the other often in tears.
They have spent a whole season getting to this point and now it is success or failure.
The team in tears is the second best team in the competition, but now they are unsuccessful so their season has been (at least at that moment) ‘wasted.’
Professional athletes are paid according to their success especially in the case of Cycling New Zealand and High Performance Sport New Zealand.
Margins of success or failure are often very small and officials in both bodies must be successful too.
It often is a ‘dog eat dog’ world.
This is the reason psychologists are now so much part of the sport scene.
Anyone is different and we all react in different ways.
As we draw attention to these problems and failures, it may be a good time to think about the pressure being put on farmers and supposed ‘polluters.’
It may suit the ‘must be done now or it’s too late’ crowd to rush in but let’s carefully consider the affect on those concerned.
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August 12, 2021 8:56am
ABS4EVA

What kind of a SICKO funds the Mongrel Mob?

Seriously

What kind of a SICKO funds the Mongrel Mob?
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August 12, 2021 9:05am
- sooty
  
  One that knows which side of it’s bread is buttered on!
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:20am
- JibberJabber
  
  Our elected representative apparently…
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:27am
- Tall Man
  
  [ Sorry – naked links not an option ]
  
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  August 12, 2021 6:02pm
  - Tall Man
    
    There were no naked links people. Poor terminology by a mod I think.
    
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    August 13, 2021 11:10am
stewmar

Listening to Sir John Key on Hoskin this morning was a breath of fresh air, he talks such common sense.
The C19 pandemic is of a level of such seriousness to our nation that I think it should be dealt with in a bipartisan way with all parties in Parliament working together to find a strategy moving forward. But not only all political parties the working group should also be represented by heads of major business sector groups, religious groups and unions etc.
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August 12, 2021 9:06am
- Ruawai
  
  Jacinda would never give up the reigns of covid power.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Cindy’s COL closed down Simon Bridges’ attempt to make sure everyone was informed about Covid-19.
  
  The media piled in on Nats and Bridges every time they pointed out the problems/errors with Ardern & Clark’s attempts to eliminate the tricky virus.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121169737/coronavirus-simon-bridges-receives-huge-backlash-to-facebook-post-criticising-lockdown-extension
  
  So here we are 18 months later and clearly this Government hasn’t a damn clue as to how to proceed.
  
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  August 12, 2021 2:26pm
- Mark
  
  i suggested the same thing 18 months ago and shortarse and Stuart rubbished me .It is on record.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:14pm
yossarian

How much is David Seymour nailing the sound bites?

Last night on the HDA show he said in relation to a plan B for the Skegg report that “our isolation will go from our greatest strength to our greatest weakness in regards to Covid 19”

He’s leaving Crusher (whom I admire) for dead in regards to communication.
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August 12, 2021 9:14am
- oldfella
  
  Yossarian: We can’t blame Cindy for this covid shambles. According to Skegg we’ve been let down by our Allies. That’s good to know. If it’s all someone else’s fault Glorious Leader will never need to apologize.
  Leading epidemiologist Sir David Skegg says New Zealand has been “let down by its allies” in its fight to eliminate Covid-19.
  Speaking at a press conference this morning, Skegg, said despite vaccine development the virus was “still winning the war”.
  New Zealand had been let down by allies, Skegg said. They could have pursued the elimination strategy, but chose not to.
  Many of the countries that could have eliminated Covid-19 either never tried, or threw in the towel.”
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-set-to-respond-to-sir-david-skegg-report-on-vaccine-targets-border-opening/LCZF5AZYNXLVNGIOKUVEFD25UY/
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:10am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Skegg: “Many of the countries that could have eliminated Covid-19 either never tried, or threw in the towel”
    
    What utter nonsense. Mankind has NEVER ELIMINATED AS RESPIRATORY VIRUS, and the signals that this one is here to say have been with us since March 2020.
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:52am
    - Frank the tank
      
      I can’t but help think this report was ‘commissioned’ before the latest poll results when they still believed the majority of the population, especially those without penises were fully functioning members of the covid cult.
      
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      August 12, 2021 11:36am
- lifesgood
  
  Yes, Seymour is doing really well but I can’t, for the life of me, name one other Act party MP.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:36am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    You obviously don’t follow politics much. Deputy Brooke VanVelden is also impressive but admittedly I can’t remember the names of any of the others.
    
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    August 12, 2021 1:05pm
    - Nickc2
      
      At least he’s keeping his lot under control. This is more than can be said for Labour, Greens or even National. However, National may improve its act now Muller has tendered his resignation albeit at the next election.
      
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      August 12, 2021 1:18pm
    - artemisia
      
      That’s because they are breathing through the nose. Very wise too.
      
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      August 12, 2021 4:37pm
- Frank the tank
  
  The best burn was his opening “Now I know they are just taking the piss”. That was brilliant.
  
  In regards to Seymour he has much more license as he doesn’t have to sound prime ministerial. Collins does – remember this.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:39am
- Ed Snack
  
  And he’s right about that. As I comment above, NZ will have a rough time when (and I think it is when not if) Covid gets out into the population.
  
  Our best hope is for a more effective vaccine to appear plus the acceptance of best practice early treatment that is not subject to political considerations.
  
  Maybe we’ll end up like Iceland where it appears that they have accepted that the solution is to achieve as much local immunity as possible by allowing the spread of the virus coupled with management of cases; coupled with vaccination to partially reduce the effect.
  
  It does appear that the only good immunity is achieved naturally, the vaccines just are not as good.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:40am
Happychappy

Genesis Carbon Dioxide levels up 82 pct
compared to previous years.
Genesis Energy emitted more carbon dioxide in generating electricity last year than any year in the last decade as it used more coal to make up for the lack of hydropower and gas.
Low rainfall and lake level shave hampered hydropower generation, and unforeseen gas outages have led to lower fossil gas supply able to be used in generation, as a result more coal had to be used.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/genesis-carbon-dioxide-levels-up-82-pct-compared-to-previous-years.html
So is this what we have to look forward to over the coming years when the cold cause’s outages like Monday night and is this a direct result of our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s Captains Call for the environment .
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August 12, 2021 9:17am
- krazykiwi
  
  I ♥ CO2
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:45am
  - Tall Man
    
    So do my trees and plants.
    
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    August 12, 2021 5:58pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Good, looking forward to a bumper crop of tomatoes, lettuce and sweet corn this season.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:29am
Maggy Wassilieff

We seem to be stuck in a perpetual kiddies’ playground

Today we are on the merry-go-round, hearing the same old stories we were told last year about how NZ will transition out of the pandemic.

You know already that we are going to be told the same stuff next year.
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August 12, 2021 9:21am
rouppe

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/scary-all-in-fight-filmed-at-auckland-girls-grammar-school/FQO4HOKEDPFOLEKR4UQ7WL236A/

PoC….
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August 12, 2021 9:21am
- krazykiwi
  
  Looked like a standard session of the Ukrainian parliament. These girls could have a career in politics.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:42am
  - sooty
    
    Standing along side Marama, as backup!
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:17am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Whilst the video is probably self-explanatory, this should in no way be confused with ‘Epsom Girls Grammar’, which along with Auckland Boys, forms the much sought after ‘Double Grammar Zone’.
  
  Just saying.
  
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  August 12, 2021 9:52am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  That fight scene should have been billed as “A heavy weight contest”.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:25am
- JibberJabber
  
  Maybe the Govts latest apology has inspired a reenactment of the late 80s Otara Chopping Mall incident?
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:25am
WaveyDavey

I see Skegg has turned out to be a Labour placeman and fellow-traveller

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-set-to-respond-to-sir-david-skegg-report-on-vaccine-targets-border-opening/LCZF5AZYNXLVNGIOKUVEFD25UY/

Trans: “The Sainted Jacinda is right and everyone else in the world knows nothing…”
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August 12, 2021 9:32am
kiwikidsnz

For no obvious reason this morning I came across this https://www.stuff.co.nz/about-stuff/300106664/stuff-editorial-code-of-practice-and-ethics

I particularly enjoyed being reassured that “Stuff is politically non-partisan. Journalists should take care not to allow bias – or the perception of bias – in their reporting and in public comments,…”
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August 12, 2021 9:39am
- oldfella
  
  kknz: stuffed has the best comedy writers in the country. Their ‘we’re non-partisan’ schtick is hilarious.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:53am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Well if they can’t get clicks for journalism then may as well try their hand at comedy.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:53am
- graham
  
  I particularly enjoyed being reassured that “Stuff is politically non-partisan. Journalists should take care not to allow bias – or the perception of bias – in their reporting and in public comments,…
  
  … and now you have to clean the coffee out of your keyboard, right?
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:04am
CAKE FACE1

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

The zero Ro nut jobs are insane, but they are also in charge.

This is surreal.

These people are basically advocating hiding under our beds – forever! There is no exit strategy from this madness allowable.

NZ will be economically and socially destroyed.

How did it come to this???
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August 12, 2021 9:41am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I know my mental health is declining from being separated from family.
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:32am
Rusty

Standard definition of the word racism.

noun (prejudice based on) belief in superiority of particular race; antagonism towards other races.

Here’s a standard definition of the word Marxism.

doctrines of Marx. predicting common ownership of means of production.

Could the very people who accuse others of being racialist be racialist themselves through Marxist thinking?
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August 12, 2021 9:58am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “noun (prejudice based on) belief in superiority of particular race; antagonism towards other races.”
  
  So if you oppose a race because of their general tendency towards crime and cruel violence, you must be, by definition, racist.
  
  Note: Generalization is very unfair on the individual.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:46am
CAKE FACE1

CAKE has been semi-retired for over four years now, but I remember what it was like working. Personally, I operated differently from colleagues – I tried to be as rational and efficient as possible. I would sign stuff off immediately, if I thought it was correct to do so.

However, what I found out was that the only power middle managers are often granted is to delay the progress of things. Consequently, they almost universally sit on sign-offs, for as long as they can get away with it. This is the source of their only power.

When you look at the Ro “experts”, I suspect that this is part of what is happening, with regards to opening the borders (or not).

For the first time in their lives, someone is listening to these so-called “experts”. They are given some power with respect to advocating closing the borders. If they don’t support closed borders, all their power and influence would be gone, forever.

So it is…
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August 12, 2021 10:10am
sooty

The media websites say watch live our PM, shining the light on the path forward, live even!
No thanks! I prefer not to listern to her as I can’t stand her lies or the sound of her voice! The ventriloquist dummies she calls ministers, are no better!
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August 12, 2021 10:16am
I remember when

One Plan – One million changes:
Farm Gauge not effective: Stuff:
Except it was never intended to be used for the purpose.
An independent report into the Overseer nutrient management tool, released yesterday, uncovered serious issues.
(No it didn’t – they were already known.)
A 2018 review by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Simon Upton found the tool seriously flawed, leading to the Government-initiated review released yesterday.
Apparently Overseer did not take into account sudden events like storms.
(So it pisses down with rain and a lot of the nitrogen might run off the property (no doubt into a fast flowing river) – who would have known .)
Notified in 2007, One Plan is the “one stop shop” resource management planning document for the Horizons region.
Plan Change 1 (2016)
Plan Amendment 1 (2018)
Proposed Plan Change 2 -Existing Intensive Farming Land Uses.
Roll in several Environmental Court cases.
(Why don’t farmers just get on and make the necessary changes that science dictates like the Greens, etc, suggest.)
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August 12, 2021 10:17am
- westernScientest
  
  Whats most annoying is all they had to do was go to the overseer website to find out that it wasnt designed to do what they are critisising it for not doing. Anyone with the reading age of a 12 year old and a spare half hour could have worked it out. Their website says:
  
  “Overseer models nutrient flows to the farm boundary. The farm boundary is to the farm gate and down to 60 cm below the surface (typical rooting depth of pasture). It does not model what happens to those nutrients beyond this boundary, nor does it model extreme weather or events.”
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:02am
Maggie Pie

Just been speaking with Ma. Said she’s got no idea why she even bothers listening to Marcus Lush…lost his marbles she reckons. Talks shit for 4 hours. Although apparently, he did let slip last night that Mayor Tim could be facing a no-confidence vote today. She thinks he on the council?
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August 12, 2021 10:18am
- Wired-one
  
  Lush is on the council.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:37am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    No wonder poor old Tim can’t understand what’s going on then.
    
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    August 12, 2021 11:02am
- Frank the tank
  
  One of the early assimilations to wokeborg. A 1-trick pony to boot.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:41am
Ruawai

Propaganda currently spewing from the pulpit of one source of truth.
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August 12, 2021 10:29am
- Ruawai
  
  Propaganda just finished and no questions afterwards. Then a Maori prayer to close and the sign language guy couldn’t do sign language as he must not speak Maori, so guess that means most people had no idea what he was saying.
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:51am
Cassandra

The AGS girls are big, aren’t they? It’s mainly handbags but they’d hurt!
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August 12, 2021 10:36am
Happychappy

It happens to often by Labour when it comes to breaking rules .
Labour Party under fire for using Party branding to promote Medsafe Vaccine decision.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/labour-under-fire-for-using-party-branding-to-promote-medsafe-vaccine-decision.html
Labour have no bungles when it comes to themselves but cry fowl if anyone else trys the same thing.
It’s all about Jacinda Ardern and how she wants New Zealander’s to believe this is all because of her.
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August 12, 2021 10:42am
Maggie Pie

ZB TRENDING…

PC Andy Coster just tells Kerry Woodham that general arming of police wont happen on his watch,

He did say that he has been ‘personally thanked’ by all personnel who have attended the latest round of Seminars on… “How to approach members of the public in a safe manner”

SHEESH!!
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August 12, 2021 10:45am
- Frank the tank
  
  LOL. What a … [deleted].
  
  On the front line there has never been more hatred for the Bullshit Castle.
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:38am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trouble with idiots like Costa, if he is ever confronted by a bad guy with a gun (gang members have the guns) the first thing the arrogant prick will do is call a good guy with a gun. Looks like it will not be his woke Police then, so who??
  
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  August 12, 2021 5:49pm
  - Mark
    
    Shit that police gun culture is working out real well in the states is it not.Wait till 5 unarmed Maoris are shot ,you sir are fuckwit .
    
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    August 12, 2021 10:18pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I know who the fuckwits are. Who mentioned the States? I was talking about NZ which you may know as a ah tea rower
      
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      August 13, 2021 7:56am
oldfella

One of broadcast television’s most revered news programs avoided mentioning the scandals plaguing Democratic New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo resulting in his resignation.
“60 Minutes,” CBS News’ highly-watched Sunday magazine show, has ignored the multiple controversies that have surfaced against Cuomo over the past year.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/cbs-60-minutes-andrew-cuomo-scandals-resignation
Well of course 60 Minutes ignored it. They even managed to ignore the sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden before the last election. Allegations which Kamala Harris said were credible.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kamala-harris-joe-biden-accusers-i-believe-them_n_5ca4fb96e4b094d3f5c5750f
Of course 60 Minutes in Aus did do an interview with Joe’s accuser, but that was only for the Aussie market. And never got played in the US.
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August 12, 2021 10:48am
westernScientest

So there we have it everyone. We should/might see quarantine free travel for a select few later this year, possibly as early as October. Now we know why they have been harping on about L4 again.

Prediction:
Someone will be double vacced, go through their special scheme, release delta into the community through no fault of their own, gvt will force us into L4 blame the poor kfc worker, those dam ‘anti-vacsors’, capitalism and colonialism, slam the boarder shut again and go on about how cindy saved us all.

The peasants are getting restless, better put the fear of big government back into them
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August 12, 2021 10:56am
Maggie Pie

PC Andrew Coster tells ZB listeners he spent his early days policing out in South Auckland.
Says…. what wonderful people they are.

Imagine his effusiveness had he been stationed in Remuera 😀
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August 12, 2021 11:08am
- cmm
  
  There are wonderful people in South Auckland. Unfortunately there are criminals there too impacting on these wonderful people’s lives. The crims need to be eliminated to allow the rest to continue getting on with being wonderful.
  
  Unfortunately the dickhead thinks ridding a society of its crims is racist. Silly woke bugger.
  
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  August 12, 2021 12:13pm
I remember when

What is the covid science:
What percentage of those who caught covid in earlier waves, but not been vaccinated, have caught covid again?
What percentage of those who were infected and have also received a vaccination have been reinfected?
What percentage of those who have only been vaccinated have subsequently caught covid?
Have the outcomes for these groups differed in any way?
How does the percentage of those not in the above groups, that have caught covid recently (since vaccination reached say 25%), vary from original outbreaks as a % of the unvaccinated population?
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August 12, 2021 11:23am
- Tall Man
  
  Too many questions.
  
  The only one that counts for anything is …
  
  “what colour dress will you wear cindy …….”
  
  or maybe ….
  
  “have the family got their miq spots sorted yet?’
  
  Actually, not a chance that will ever be asked.
  
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  August 12, 2021 5:41pm
Benedict Yu

This is what the PM said this morning

“If everyone heeds the call to be vaccinated by the end of 2021, it is our goal to reduce and then eventually remove the need for lock downs,” Ardern said.

She said Covid-19 could then be treated like measles has been for years.

“Measles is both incredibly infectious but also potentially deadly for a young unvaccinated child. When we have outbreaks in New Zealand, we contact trace and we isolate. These are the public health tools, that in the absence of lockdowns, we will continue to use,” Ardern said.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300380835/covid-19-nz-resets-approach-with-faster-vaccine-rollout-border-reopening-trial-this-year

The problem is that the measles vaccine is 95 percent effective at preventing transmission. It effectively stamps out measles if about 92 percent of kids are vaccinated.

The COVID vaccine is only 50 percent effective at preventing transmission. And if vaccinated people get covid they are highly infectious.

This is not just my opinion. Senior scientists in the UK have been saying the same thing in the last two days.

So no the covid vaccine is nothing like the measles vaccine. Why is the PM not being challenged? David Seymour where are you?
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August 12, 2021 11:24am
- krazykiwi
  
  She is doubling down, and in doing so telegraphing her manifestly weak leadership.
  
  Most of her advisors will know the truth, and some will be tentatively telling her.
  
  But the implications of acting on the truth must be politically unpalatable.
  
  So she lies, spins, obfuscates.
  
  Also, side issue. That 50% level isn’t static. The Israelis learned that citizens fully vaccinated in January 2021 had just 16% protection from infection 6 months later.
  
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  August 12, 2021 11:37am
- cmm
  
  What a liar she is.
  
  Measles is a one (or two) pricks and you’re sorted for life vaccine (1 gives 95% coverage, 2 gives 99%).
  
  For CV19 they’re now talking about 6 monthly boosters and all they’re offering is a relatively small payback.
  
  It is a lie to compare CV19 and measles.
  
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  August 12, 2021 12:10pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes totally correct. Did she just dream up the measles comparison? What she is saying is as stupid as Trump suggesting bleach injections. The media should be running headlines ridiculing her measles analogy.
    
    I’m in despair but most folk think Jacinda has got this in hand.
    
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    August 12, 2021 12:18pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘ Trump suggesting bleach injection’
      Except he didn’t say that at all
      
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      August 12, 2021 1:10pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ah, but the media say he said that, bahahaha
        
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        August 12, 2021 5:57pm
      - MCos
        
        Listen to what he said
        https://youtu.be/zicGxU5MfwE
        
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        August 12, 2021 7:34pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        McCos, you have comprehension problems. Trump was ASKING a question, not suggesting. Do you work for CNN?
        
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        August 13, 2021 7:59am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Also “Measles – Humans are the only natural hosts of the virus, and no other animal reservoirs are known to exist.”
    
    They’ve already told us Minks, and Bats and Cats and Dogs can get the Rona. So vaccinating humans is not going to stop it.
    
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    August 12, 2021 3:02pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Measles had an actual vaccine not a pretend generic mod one. WHO had to change its definition finally to include the COVID one within its definition.
    
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    August 12, 2021 3:04pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Never had a vax for the two measles. We lived in the sticks, just got it, and got NATURAL antibodies. Same for all the other things except polio – I had that.
    When you are 30 miles from the nearest Doctor you don’t go running to the coz you sneezed or got a rash
    
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    August 12, 2021 6:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “If everyone heeds the call to be vaccinated by the end of 2021, it is our goal to reduce and then eventually remove the need for lock downs,”
  Now, in between the lines what she is saying is, “when NZ gets the Delta variant, we will lockdown to level 4. It is not my fault that we did not get 100% vaccinated”
  Degree in communications you know. This is a perfect example of Jacindaspeak – waffle waffle waffle – it is the people’s fault, not mine
  
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  August 12, 2021 5:56pm
trout

So the BSA has rapped Media Works over the knuckles for hiring John Banks;
‘The way the talkback topic was framed by Mr Banks as part of his introduction created an environment in which such discriminatory comments were foreseeable and practically inevitable.’
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August 12, 2021 11:24am
ABS4EVA

[Although this is GD, there must be some point before posting links to events of some 34 years ago. Perhaps you could include some relevant commentary if you wish to repost. Mod.]
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August 12, 2021 11:37am
Nickc2

A smoke signal from the Beehive just indicated Twyford is to replace Woods as Minister for Energy and Resources.
At last, Cindy has come to her senses. Now we can have total faith in Electricity Supply. //
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August 12, 2021 11:42am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Tywfordism in energy supply?
  It did in housing.
  
  Is Woods incapable or just had enough of having to deal with a portfolio where nothing is the rule because anything requires actual people to plan, consent and do something which may take 10 years to do? Very Twyford, but still expect nothing.
  
  Get this amateur gulliblerment out now before any further damage.
  
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  August 12, 2021 3:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It worked in all the other things he has done. Great stuff from Jaspinda //
  
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  August 12, 2021 6:06pm
Tauhei Notts

Another day.
Another item of idiocy.
Today’s is that there will no longer be birth certificates. There will be identity certificates.
One outfit is proposing a petition against such idiotic behaviour. I will not sign such a petition. I believe that it is best that we merely tolerate these dingbats until the next election then vote them away. If we sign a petition they just might realise their idiocy and back down.
Many posters on this site know they are idiots. If they are allowed, until the next election, to behave like dongbeaters, then a huge majority of the population will have it rammed down their throats that, beyond any shadow of doubt, they are the worst government in our country’s history.
But I might be wrong. I thought Nordmeyer had a slight chance of beating Holyoake in 1963.
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August 12, 2021 11:44am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Tauhei, I don’t believe you are wrong about the election. And Bob Jones agrees with you. He’s taken a $10k bet that Labour will be out at the next election.
  The only issue I have is if some of this bollocks goes through, it won’t be a high priority to reverse it when the Government changes. So best get shot of it now.
  
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  August 12, 2021 12:10pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The identity certificate will prob state if you were breastfed or chestfed – and also what ‘other’ gender you may be without looking in your undies
  
  2 1
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  August 12, 2021 6:09pm
Littletramp

I have not tried posting a link to twitter before but here goes.
https://twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1422181544161128450
This thread is an outstanding time line of how distrust in media evolved. It is quite lengthy but right on point, and probably explains why politicians are having trouble getting vaccination uptake sold.
8 1
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August 12, 2021 11:52am
- Batman
  
  Interesting but ultimately self-excusing and blind to two decades of contrarian conditioning coming from Fox News and the other wider conservative media ecosystem.
  
  It’s basically a grab bag of pre-determined beliefs to justify selfish virtue signalling by those who claim to be smart. Peak confirmation bias, if you will.
  
  2 24
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  August 12, 2021 12:11pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Well that said nothing…..
    
    15 2
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    August 12, 2021 12:28pm
    - Batman
      
      Too many smart words for ya, shorty? ?
      
      4 17
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      August 12, 2021 2:12pm
      - Tall Man
        
        You’ve been listening to ardern for too long.
        
        Word soup does not a comprehensible sentence make.
        
        To be completely honest, I was trying to be nice but hey since brevity is your thing ……
        
        What a load of crap.
        
        9 1
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        August 12, 2021 2:58pm
      - Batman
        
        Ok here’s my short version.
        
        It was a load of self-serving bullshit designed to hit all the key talking points for triggered snowflake Trumpers who don’t want to accept they’ve been mislead for two decades and have been radicalised into idiot Facebook mums who are anti-vax because someone on the internet said it was bad.
        
        1 6
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        August 12, 2021 7:07pm
    - Tall Man
      
      So how about you approve my posts that have been up for a while instead of posting abuse.
      
      You assume that because you accept a narrative without question others do the same.
      
      It doesn’t take a deeply analytical mind to recognise the inherent bias of the current media luvvies, nor would it have taken too much to spot absolute bias towards the right in the preceding 20 years.
      
      But look back at the achievements of the press over the past 30 – 50 years and tell me they did make significant and positive differences to our world and you label it all as misleading.
      
      Now tell me what the current lot are achieving, changed pronouns FFS………
      
      4 0
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      August 12, 2021 7:35pm
      - Batman
        
        Untie your knickers buddy.
        
        Of course some of the current media are urban lefties, shit I worked with them and in close proximity.
        
        But that stupid attempt at groupthink retweets and likes is a lame little dog whistle.
        
        You seem very intelligent but you are completely unable to be self-reflective and critical of sources that confirm your views.
        
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        August 12, 2021 7:48pm
oldfella

According to the Daily Mail…
“If Boris thinks Brits are going to pay through the nose for green boilers and electric cars while the Chinese are burning coal like there’s no tomorrow he’s signing his own death warrant”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9884589/If-Boris-thinks-Brits-pay-nose-green-boilers-hes-signing-death-warrant.html
Hmm, sounds like Cindy’s plan. Which might have the same effect. We can but hope.
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August 12, 2021 12:39pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDY….

Speaker Mallard allows ‘MP-for-Tijuana’ to wear Inflatable Life Jacket in the Chamber during Question Time.

https://vimeo.com/585160402
18 1
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August 12, 2021 12:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If he is not going, he will sell the free tickets.
  Trademe Trev
  
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  August 12, 2021 6:12pm
Paulus

Understand that Trevor Mallard has said he will no longer attend the Hurricanes matches since part owner Bowker’s comments.
Thank goodness the Hurricanes may well benefit from that move as, of course Mallard, does not even pay for his tickets anyway, and probably his beer too.
31 0
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August 12, 2021 1:06pm
- Nickc2
  
  I can hear the Hurricanes Board breathe a sigh of relief for that. They thought they were stuck with the bludger for another season.
  Another Labour Pollie bites the hand that feeds him. How would have thought?
  
  23 2
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  August 12, 2021 1:43pm
- krazykiwi
  
  He’s probably stopped going because there are insufficient bare-knuckle fights for his liking.
  
  7 2
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  August 12, 2021 2:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Baaaa!!!
    
    3 1
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    August 12, 2021 6:13pm
Harriet

Religious education is not Sunday school.

National and ACT should take the Department of Deplorables head on over this…….Indians, Koreans, Islanders, Jews……that’s a HUGE amount of votes. 😎
3 1
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August 12, 2021 1:12pm
All_on_Red

Ruh Roh
‘This week, federal prosecutors quietly revealed that they possess evidence that may sink their prosecutions of many of those who were present at the Capitol on January 6.

This under-the-radar admission was made in a filing in the case of United States v. Couy Griffin. Griffin….is charged with entering a restricted area outside the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021’
‘….federal prosecutors made a breathtaking admission.

After explaining that the government possesses “[t]housands of hours” of video footage from a variety of sources, they conceded these materials include recordings of Capitol Police Officers ALLOWING PROTESTORS TO ENTER the “restricted” area into which Griffin is alleged to have trespassed. The prosecutors stated:
“[W]e are not in a position to turn over the universe of information we possess for Defendant to review. Although we are aware that we possess some information that the defense may view as supportive of arguments that law enforcement authorized defendants (including Defendant) to enter the restricted grounds, e.g., images of officers hugging or fist-bumping rioters, posing for photos with rioters, and moving bike racks, we are not in a position to state whether we have identified all such information”
So funny.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/08/jan-6-prosecutors-admit-to-possession-of-images-of-officers-hugging-or-fist-bumping-rioters-posing-for-photos-with-rioters-and-moving-bike-racks/
11 1
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August 12, 2021 1:45pm
- krazykiwi
  
  No, no, you’ve got it all wrong. This was a violent insurrection which struck at the heart of US democracy.
  
  Those officers hugging or fist-bumping rioters, posing for photos with rioters, and moving bike racks where terrorized into being collaborators in this heinous plot //
  
  I’d like to see some of those officers on the stand, under oath, and testifying as to who gave them the orders to stand aside
  
  12 1
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  August 12, 2021 1:55pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Pelosi declined Police and National Guard assistance well before the incident.
    
    8 1
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    August 12, 2021 1:57pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Donald Trump is on record of offering that. The whole World other than Democrats know this. Pelosi declined because she was one of those who knew Antifa and BLM were going to mingle with Trump supporters – and she wanted it to happen. Nancy is evil
      
      8 1
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      August 12, 2021 6:19pm
      - Batman
        
        That’s bullshit Scott and you know it.
        
        Pelosi and McConnell are not in charge of operational decisions by the Capitol police.
        
        There were no antifa or BLM people in the crowd, it was all angry white people who didn’t like being out voted by the majority. It was a racist mob who called police officers “Niggers” and abused them for doing their jobs.
        
        Pelosi isn’t evil, however we can talk about Stephen Miller if you want to get into evil. Or maybe the Trump coup with the DoJ flunkies attempting to overturn an election and very nearly getting away with it.
        
        Racist authoritarians, now that’s evil.
        
        It’ll be fun watching you chaps distance yourselves from it when the dust settles.
        
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        August 12, 2021 7:13pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Good grief, there are people who still believe the NYT, especially on matters Trump?
        
        As Attorney Margot Cleveland explains in this Twitter thread:
        
        It reads as if the President told his DOJ to tell American public the election was corrupt even after the DOJ told him there was no evidence to back it up.
        
        But as she put it:
        
        Did Trump tell DOJ to say election was corrupt in relation to no evidence of fraud
        …
        OR in response to DOJ saying they could discover quickly if PA had more votes than voters but that they couldn’t reverse the election?
        
        The published notes of the meeting showed it was the latter. Trump specifically told them he doesn’t expect them to change the results. So, he specifically said the opposite of what the NY Times implied. It only makes sense in the context of them finding a problem. If they found no fraud, but said there was fraud, that would be “changing the results.” So, he didn’t ask them to do that, as he himself said.
        
        That’s why removing that comment from the context of the question about Pennsylvania and suggesting it was after they told Trump there was nothing to be found is dishonest, and changing the nature of what was actually said.
        
        It’s the Georgia phone call and Lafayette Park all over again, except this time the NYT lie fell apart after just a couple of days.
        
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        August 12, 2021 8:52pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    People who wandered into the Capitol building without breaking anything or hurting anyone have been languishing in prison for 6 months, with bail being refused, often in solitary confinement, and are being denied access to evidence or even a trial until next year.
    
    Meanwhile Democratic Arizona state senator charged with kiddie fiddling released on bail two days after being arrested.
    
    Two tier politicized justice system with different rules and standards applied to little people.
    
    12 1
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    August 12, 2021 3:38pm
    - Batman
      
      More lies.
      
      Those in Prison are being processed through the courts on a number of violent charges including assaulting a police officer. Funny how the people who usually ask for tough prisons, tough policing and tough sentences are now crying for mummy because they’re the ones doing the crimes.
      
      Maybe Trump should have funded the justice system better instead of focusing on enriching himself and securing power.
      
      1 9
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      August 12, 2021 7:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Orders to stand aside? Nancy will never allow that
    
    4 1
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    August 12, 2021 6:16pm
    - Batman
      
      But Trump’s Defense department did exactly that, muzzling the National Guard and his political appointees slow-rolled the response in the hopes the building would be seized completely by Roger Stone’s friends in the militias.
      
      1 9
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      August 12, 2021 7:15pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

A short presentation on how the 2020 US election was stolen with clear proof from voter records. Voter rolls were padded out ahead of the election with fake voters who were created to fill in gaps so that there wouldn’t be any obvious excess of people enrolled to vote in any particular age group compared to the 2010 census data. But the fraud is clearly revealed by the fact that this enrolled voter age demographic pyramid is replicated identically in every county in each state whether it is a rich or poor, urban or rural electorate (which is not reflective of real demographics). The fraud is even more starkly revealed by perfect state-wide homogeneity in voter age distribution for counties within states, but big step changes across state boundaries, even if the adjacent counties on either side of the state boundary are both rural or otherwise highly similar. Clearly huge coordinated election fraud.

At the election these fake voters were then utilised via mailed out absentee ballots filled in by DNC operatives to pump up Biden’s vote totals as and where needed.

https://rumble.com/vkynsx-2010-census-was-used-to-fabricate-and-inflate-the-2020-vote.html
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August 12, 2021 1:47pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  And further interesting info today from a conference on the 2020 election fraud that a Colorado whistleblower took disk images of Dominion election machines just prior to a May ‘update’ by Dominion and analysis of those images reveals that a backdoor security hole had been installed by Dominion to allow them to be easily hacked and controlled remotely, along with SQL database software to allow vote databases to be easily altered (illegal, but similar was found in Antrim county audit). Evidence of this and election logs and records were wiped by Dominion during this ‘update’ even though records are required by law to be kept for 22 months.
  
  But Democrats control sufficient branches and functions of US govt to likely prevent any of this being prosecuted – just as they are stonewalling the audit process in Arizona.
  
  6 2
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  August 12, 2021 2:11pm
  - kevn
    
    @Urban… Cue batty. He be here soon.
    
    4 1
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    August 12, 2021 4:49pm
    - Tall Man
      
      On the train home …. be patient.
      
      2 1
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      August 12, 2021 5:36pm
    - Batman
      
      Only to laugh heartily at the stupidity of it all.
      
      Lindell has been taken for a ride by people taking his money and telling him what he wants to hear.
      
      Anyone who believes this stuff is merely accessing a virtual comfort blanket for their hurt feelings and denial.
      
      This is all a case of people *wanting* to believe it until it’s true. They’re like kids who believe in Santa.
      
      2 9
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      August 12, 2021 7:24pm
- Mark
  
  You sir are full of shit .ADMIT it you lost.Yee har
  
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  August 12, 2021 10:25pm
Batman

Virtualmark mentioned that Ivermectin has been found to be a dud drug for covid, despite a few people pushing it.

Just wanting to link this as a bit of a warning in case anyone is considering horse paste or sheep drench…. Don’t.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/demon-sperm-doctors-new-bogus-cure-has-covid-truthers-eating-horse-paste
5 15
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August 12, 2021 2:14pm
- Tall Man
  
  Those of us outside of the public service only seem stupid whereas …….
  
  4 2
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  August 12, 2021 2:49pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    State sector, those public service only service themselves
    
    2 1
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    August 12, 2021 6:33pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Thedailybeast. I’m sure that as a far left propaganda outlet they’ll always tell the truth and definitely not just parrot lines from their political masters (eg Google upon whom they are almost entirely dependent for clicks).
  
  Or (nullius in verba) you can look at the results of large numbers of studies involving 10’s of thousands of patients and come to your own conclusions (extensive collection of excellent results from early, ideally prophylactic use use, far more than generally seen for drugs put into widespread use): https://ivmmeta.com/
  
  Are these 100’s of peer reviewed and published researchers all risking their professional reputations and careers to push fraudulent data?
  
  Percentage improvement with ivermectin treatment
  Studies Prophylaxis Early treatment Late treatment Patients Authors
  All studies 62 86% [75‑92%] 73% [56‑84%] 43% [26‑56%] 24,664 587
  With exclusions 51 88% [76‑94%] 76% [66‑83%] 50% [28‑65%] 18,907 525
  Peer-reviewed 42 86% [73‑93%] 75% [61‑84%] 43% [21‑59%] 16,455 436
  Randomized Controlled Trials 31 84% [25‑96%] 67% [54‑76%] 30% [2‑50%] 6,561 359
  Mortality results 24 96% [41‑100%] 61% [10‑83%] 59% [35‑74%] 12,153 237
  
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  August 12, 2021 3:10pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Note there are lots of ways of gaming a trial to get a bad outcome if that is what is desired to serve as a ‘hit job’ on competition, eg by skewing protocols away from what is likely to work best. That has been clearly done in a number of cases like the Oxford ‘Recovery’ trial on hydroxychloroquine amongst others (with toxic dosages delivered very late, counter to established efficacy when used early so as to generate negative headlines). There was also another fraudulent hit piece on hydroxychloroquine published in the lancet before it was caught (obviously there is big money for hit jobs in the service of big Pharma interests), but had done it’s work in stopping other trials on hydroxychloroquine. It pays to read critiques of establishment trial results.
    
    4 2
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    August 12, 2021 3:59pm
    - Batman
      
      Unfortunately, the scandal of bunk ivermectin stories just keeps growing thanks to the alt-medicine community.
      
      https://www.sciencealert.com/ivermectin-study-controversy-is-a-huge-wake-up-call-for-fraud-in-covid-19-science
      
      https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93658
      
      https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/ivermectin-still-lacks-scientific-support-as-a-covid-19-drug-69049
      
      https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w
      
      These mostly relate to the same case but it shows there is serious issues with the studies pushing Ivermectin in the hope of getting attention.
      
      2 6
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      August 12, 2021 7:41pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  You’ve been getting your stories from The Daily Beast, eh? Some very large pennies just dropped into place.
  
  7 0
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  August 12, 2021 4:36pm
  - Batman
    
    Meh, enjoy your pennies.
    
    Two links to the beast is hardly a crime. Certainly not as stupid as linking to genuine authoritarian state outlets and thinking it’s quality ?
    
    0 8
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    August 12, 2021 7:20pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126024267/new-zealanders-concerned-about-killer-robots-as-government-pushes-against-new-arms-race

Phil Twyford, Minister for Killer Robots !

His CV for this job:

Minister of Housing and Urban Development and the Minister of Transport. Dumped.

Dismissed from Civil Aviation portfolio

Twyford “shuffled out” as Housing Minister, replaced by Megan Woods ( !!! ) , and became Minister of Economic Development .

Twyford then dropped from Prime Minister Ardern’s Cabinet, being given the Disarmament and Arms Control, and Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth portfolios as a Minister outside of Cabinet.
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August 12, 2021 4:14pm
- Tall Man
  
  [try to add something of value instead of abusing other commenters – Mod]
  
  0 1
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  August 12, 2021 5:34pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Again, there was no abuse directed at Greybeard.
    
    Why are you putting in comments that are pretty much a slur?
    
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    August 13, 2021 11:02am
Maggie Pie

JUST IN….. 😛

Batman’s sidekick comes out as gay!

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1425419055985479686
10 1
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August 12, 2021 4:15pm
- skyblue
  
  As the old joke goes…….
  Answer. Cock Robin.
  Question. What’s up my arse Batman.
  
  2 0
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  August 12, 2021 4:24pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Reminds me of the old joke. If Cockrobin is the answer, what is the question?
  
  7 0
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  August 12, 2021 4:32pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Ah yes…LUV that one! 😀 😀 😀
    Remember getting in a Xmas Cracker at Tindalls a couple of years back.
    
    3 2
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    August 12, 2021 5:11pm
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/explained-why-new-zealand-s-proposed-law-banning-conversion-therapy-is-unlikely-to-criminalise-parents.html

So the minister in charge and the so called pm can’t explain but Eddie can ……
4 1
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August 12, 2021 5:31pm
fernglas

So I awaken to the news that the Government’s failure to vaccinate people means that it will be at least another 6 months before you lot can dream of going and coming back, or before New Zealanders overseas can have a reasonable hope of returning. And it’s all predicated on a significant vaccine uptake amongst people who are showing themselves to be remarkably vaccine hesitant. To top it off, rent-a-mouth Siouxsie Wiles now wants the country to stay shut down until children are vaccinated against a disease that is far less likely to kill them than the vaccine itself.
You poor fools.
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August 12, 2021 5:59pm
Tauhei Notts

In 1968 I shared a rental home on Northcote Point, just 50 metres from the Northcote Hotel carpark, but in those days we called it 54 yards, with a couple of midwives from St Helen’s Hospital. They regaled me with numerous stories about how hard they worked and how underpaid they were, over a cask of chateau cardboard. There was no respect for them. Life was so terrible. They were a couple of rug munchers , but that term was not used 53 years ago.
Well, today, I read on the RNZ National website how badly off midwives are.
Who made that wonderful comment;
“It’s deja vu all over again.”
And, women are still queuing up to become midwives. Lord, have mercy upon us miserable offenders.
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August 12, 2021 9:21pm

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