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July 8, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 July 2021

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Happychappy

Labour is under fire for more inappropriate messaging after using Its Party Branding to promote medsafe’s to approve another Covid-19 vaccine.Earlier on Tuesday it was announced thatMedsafe – New Zealand independent regulatory authority responsible for approving medical products- had granted provisional approval for the Janssen Covid-19 vaccine.
This was triumpeted by Labour which tweeted the news in Labour Party Branding, but this decision is being criticized by Scientists, Politicians and Legal experts.
Surprise , surprise who would have though our not so sneaky clean Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern would stoop this low , it’s disgraceful and dishonest and is happening to often in this Government.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/labour-under-fire-for-using-party-branding-to-promote-medsafe-vaccine-decision.html
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July 8, 2021 8:00am
- Paulus
  
  Why would the voter sheeple believe that she could not go so low – what’s new ?
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:23am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But if we want to reinforce the message that Our Dear leader and Her Party are keeping us safe, surely it’s not too much to put a little spin on the actions of the minions who serve her?
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:27am
  - Happychappy
    
    The leeches that we call media in New Zealand go along with their silence leaving only one Three News online to alert the public on Labours blatant Electioneering.
    
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    July 8, 2021 8:40am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    When their actions serve her: full LP branding, smiley face, great news comrades!
    
    When their incompetence and failure are exposed: “So disappointed and frustrated by these people we’ve just thrown under the bus, backed up and run over again”
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:20am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Happy-
  Marketing 101: the brand must be protected at all times.
  But if brand recognition and approval is going gangbusters, it can be used for propaganda purposes – no problem at all.
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    An extended view:
    https://joannenova.com.au/2021/07/vaccines-not-the-magic-bullet-the-advertisers-claim/
    
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    July 8, 2021 8:55am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A little background on this previously unheard of “vaccine” in NZ.
  No one wants it.
  https://www.drugs.com/mtm/janssen-covid-19-vaccine-pf.html
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:49am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    BS. Everyone has heard of it
    
    It’s the Johnson & Johnson vaccine
    
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    July 8, 2021 8:53am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s not the regular J&J vaccine.
      
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      July 8, 2021 11:59am
- Akarak
  
  Labour says that the Janssen vaccine has been ‘approved’. Medsafe says it has been ‘provisionally approved’. One word can make a lot of difference.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Labour say it is approved? Approved for what?
    Labour are WELL know for lying
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:15am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      known* ffs
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:15am
    - fernglas
      
      It has to be approved by cabinet. They have decided they will do so in, oh, let’s say August, probably the 28th, there’s no hurry, we are all safe thanks to our outstanding vaccination programme and watertight borders.
      
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      July 8, 2021 5:57pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Provisionally approved is not sufficient to get it out of the population experimental class.
    
    Are we to have house calls as well to give the jab to the reluctant?
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:01pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  This is not even a story for the average Labour voting sheep. Let us not waste digital space.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Labour are a waste as a well of physical space.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:02pm
- Bob
  
  This is exactly the same tactic that Comrade Clark used during her term as PM.
  Most printed Public Service notices ended with the bottom line reading…..
  ‘you are better off with a Labour Government’.
  A leopard never changes its strips.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:05am
  - Paulus
    
    I wonder whether some in the top echelons of the Public Service are fed up with being made as it is their fault for the many balls ups, despite their Ministers only saying and doing whatever the Party via the Beehive determine.
    I smell trouble at Camp !
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:46pm
- Fletch
  
  A co-worker told me he’d seen ads promoting the vaccine (Pfizer?) saying it had been approved by authorities here and was as safe as the yearly flu jab. I told him that this was unlikely as it wasn’t due to be approved until 2023. He didn’t believe me though….
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:19am
- zulumonster
  
  The funniest part of that article is “Auckland University public policy lecturer Dr Sarah Hendrica Bickerton warned it risks politicising the pandemic and vaccination response.”
  Dr Bickerton, where have you been the last 18 months? This has been politicised up the wazoo right from the moment Jacinda warned Simon Bridges to not politicise Covid-19!!
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:49am
- Phronesis
  
  I suspect the confusion arises from the fact that both the Pfizer and Janssen vaccine have been provisionally approved Pursuant to section 23(1) of the Medicines Act 1981. https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/Comirnaty-Gazette-Jun-2021.pdf
  
  “23 (1) Minister may give provisional consent
  Notwithstanding sections 20 to 22, the Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, in accordance with this section, give provisional consent to the sale or supply or use of a new medicine if the Minister is of the opinion that it is desirable that the medicine be sold, supplied, or used.”
  
  So there clearly is a political element to the decision.
  A 23(1) approval cuts out a lot of the usual checks and balances that are built into the system.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:58pm
fernglas

Rodney Hide questions Siouxsie Wiles’ credibility and objectivity as a “scientist”.
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/quis-custodiet-ipsos-custodes

To be fair,Siouxsie doesn’t disagree. From her Twitter feed:
“I get that some people think I’m too political but what I’m actually doing is just being open about my values.
“The reason I am open about my values is so that people understand the lens through which I evaluate evidence. Because if a scientist has told you they are completely objective they are deluding themselves.”
In other words, she decides what is fact and what is fiction based on her political beliefs. Aren’t you lucky to have such objectivity available in a time of crisis.
And Michael Baker outs himself as totally disconnected, saying that:
“… the fact we had simply accepted that hundreds of people would die every winter from the flu was shocking. He described it like the Grim Reaper going through and collecting its harvest.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125675591/public-health-expert-no-we-shouldnt-aim-to-live-with-covid19-like-we-live-with-the-flu
He also describes the UK opening up:
“This “barbaric experiment”, as Baker described it, would provide New Zealand and the world with valuable data.”
These are the people this government is listening to. Self-appointed charlatans. Doesn’t anyone in New Zealand, (other than Des Gorman), have the courage to stand up and tell the truth?
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July 8, 2021 8:00am
- Nickc2
  
  Gorman to replace Saint Ash? YES PLEASE!!!
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:21am
- kowtow
  
  “……a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science.”
  
  WSC
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:43am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Baker is a clown. He is so invested with the catastrophic elimination strategy he must be praying morning and night for the Uk and Singapore to fail.
  From his glowing bio in Wikipedia
  “February 2020 he was advocating with colleagues at the University of Otago to ‘stamp out’ COVID-19 in New Zealand and keep it out, rather than trying to ‘flatten the curve’.[6] The Government eventually introduced a countrywide lockdown”
  So anything he says should be viewed with the fact that he’s reputation hangs on the ever more tenuous thread that elimination was a great idea.
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Don’t let Siouxsie near mathematics, she may use her “lens” and get a different view of trigonometric identities.
  Engineers get sued for using subjective truth. (Building fall down …)
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:53am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Or Sperical trigonometry for navigation.
    Thats ok now as we now see all the Matariki constellation by telescope.
    The original great navigators of Aotearoa must sure like there carrots to name all 7 stars.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:18am
    - gump
      
      There are archeological artifacts which demonstrate that human societies have known about the seven stars in the Pleiades since the bronze age.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk
      
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      July 8, 2021 2:40pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Her hubby is a Professor of Mathematics.
    
    (I use my hubby to check hard sums now & again)
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:32am
    - Nickc2
      
      She has a hubby? Geez, how some people …………. beats me. [Deleted – Mod]
      
      [Mod – leave the remarks about family out please]
      
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      July 8, 2021 9:39am
    - alloytoo
      
      and to open tight Jars?
      
      I recall a radio interview of a Nordic (of origin) researcher many years ago who had been researching the force required to open class jars, She indicated that some jars required excessive force and that this could be a problem for the ill, aged and young.
      
      The radio DJ (who was a bit of a twat) asked if she experienced difficulty opening jars.
      
      Her reply was that her husband was big and strong and would do that for her.
      
      That put the DJ in his place.
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:04am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Alas, now hubby has arthritic thumbs and can’t win against my Marmalade jars…
        I swear by these Brix JarKeys.
        https://www.stevens.co.nz/kitchen/cook-tools-gadgets/utensils/jarkey-jar-opener-assorted-5165069
        
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        July 8, 2021 10:24am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Life hack:
        Use the bottom a teaspoon under the metal lid between it and the glass where the thread is, and lever gently to flex the metal lid. It breaks the vacuum seal (“pop!”) and then the lid comes off easily.
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:15pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Fuzzysnuggleduck @ 12:15PM
        Place the lid in really hot water for a few seconds. The atoms move further apart and take off the lid as normal.
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:33pm
      - Paulus
        
        Easy – put the lid area of the jar under hot water for few seconds.
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:48pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Whats happened to Sir David Skeggs.
  Now theres an opinion I would listen too and respect.?
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:56am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    He’s been put in charge of a committee to try and get us out of our Hermit existence..
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/440019/covid-19-govt-sets-up-scientist-group-to-advise-on-vaccine-rollout-border-changes
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:13am
- Cinematic
  
  Unrated internationally with his opinion never sought by overseas authorities Baker has outlined his plan for Britain.
  
  Seriously, Baker’s comments in that article are unhinged.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:26am
- MrTips
  
  Public health and infectious disease is a particularly political environment in NZ.
  
  Michael Baker and Nic Wilson are in one camp and not well liked by others. Mainly because they get so much airtime.
  
  Rod Jackson, well known anti-butter fiend, has public egg on his face because he indicated Sweden was going to have 60,000 deaths and their model wouldn’t work. Instead, they have had 14,000 deaths and bugger all during their third wave which can’t be attributed to vaccine roll out as it started before that could have had an effect.
  
  Rod is not a fan of Des Gorman, neither is David Murdoch and the bods at Te Pūnaha Matatini. Mainly because Des is blunt and isn’t a “classical” public health figure.
  
  Siouxsie Wiles has ingratiated herself with Te Pūnaha Matatini (Shaun Hendy and Michael Plank – physicist and mathematician respectively, acolytes of the disgraced, lying Neil Ferguson – who initially predicted 80,000 deaths here, then changed it down to 25,000 or so and couldn’t even predict numbers from the Auckland August cluster (out by 3-fold) and who had NEVER MODELLED infectious pandemics prior to 2020) and also with One Health Aotearoa of which David Murdoch is co-director and Michael Baker is on the management group.
  
  The COVID-plan B group (which includes Simon Thornley) are generally shunned. They have some ok ideas, but they do have some outrageous ones as well. They appear to be the go to beat up crew that all the above like to pounce on.
  
  There are others who try and get a hearing but they get shut down and largely ignored by the MoH (eg. saliva testing groups). In fact, the MoH ignores a lot of good advice.
  
  The only thing that unites these factions is their general rule of silence over their differences. The one common punching bag is the Plan B group – otherwise they are more fragmented and divided than people realise. And behind the scenes, its been brutal.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:03am
  - Lummox
    
    And how does the funding fit in with the “academic” hustling? I assume that none of these people work in the private sector, and that they are all clamouring for the tax payer’s dollar?
    
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    July 8, 2021 4:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Siouxsie Wiles, aka Red Terror
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:16am
  - oldfella
    
    Steve: Siouxie Wiles, aka Red ERROR!
    There, fixed it for you. 😉
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:03pm
Tony Stuart

Here’s the prize-winning NZDF essay that Defence Minister Peeni Henare believes you need to be protected from, for his own good:

https://web.archive.org/web/20210702035433/https://kea-learning.nz/editors-pick/new-zealand-chief-of-army-writing-competition-winner-of-the-new-zealand-defence-force-private-writing-category-can-the-army-afford-to-go-woke-benign-social-progress-or-national-security-threat/
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July 8, 2021 8:01am
- hullkiwi
  
  Thanks Tony. I heard the story last night. I suppose this story is the culmination of the woke education primary school children were receiving in the 1990s. Anyone remember their children being taught “Peace Studies”?
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:17am
  - Ehlana
    
    I remember the guest speaker who told us that if NZ was invaded we could retreat to the forests and communicate using fax machines and photocopiers.
    
    Not to mention packing the runways with sheep so enemy plans couldn’t land.
    
    Oddly, our school never bothered to bring in a speaker with actual defense knowledge to provide balance. Perhaps they couldn’t find one who could stop laughing long enough.
    
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    July 8, 2021 8:55am
    - JibberJabber
      
      I believe that was Frank O’Flynn (Lab), Minister of Defence 1984-87.
      I recall, “retreat to the hills blowing up bridges behind us.” ?‍♂️
      
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      July 8, 2021 9:34am
      - Sacha
        
        For several years during and after the war, I remember the ‘Home Guard’ of local farmers having working parties on the Napier-Taihape road. They would check that the logs that they had positioned to block the road in case of Japanese invasion, were still in place.
        They did their bit for NZ’s defence, as well as keeping the larders full.
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:36pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Sacha @ 12:36PM
        Yes, that stuff would probably have worked then but that technology has been overtaken by Covid-19 (commonly referred to as Wuhu flu). China’s initial trial of this technology seems to have been fairly successful. Now, different variations of Wuhu flu are being cultured as we sleep.
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:13pm
    - Nickc2
      
      IMO, NZs next enemy will probably come from within. A bit like the Tuhoe uprising a few years ago only this one will probably come to full-on fruition. The seeds for an uprising have already been sown by our Universities and Education system in general and are now being fertilised by the implementation of the He Puapua Report/Plan.
      Don’t forget, Gangs are already being subsidised by what Labour’s Maori Caucus call koha.
      
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      July 8, 2021 9:51am
- mandk
  
  Excellent essay.
  
  Make that man Chief of the Defence Force.
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:19am
- Nickc2
  
  Congratulations NZDF (Army). About time someone kicked back against WOKEISM. IMO it will have a favourable effect on recruiting if kids are permitted to read the essay.
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:37am
  - Tall Man
    
    It has been removed.
    
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    July 8, 2021 8:44am
    - graham
      
      It may have been removed from the NZDF site, but once something has been published on the Internet it is highly likely there will be a copy or a cache somewhere.
      
      Both Tony Stuart and JibberJabber have provided a link to a cached copy on webarchive.org
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:09am
    - Nickc2
      
      It’s still on the net. Refer to Tony Stuart 8:01AM post.
      Kids will find it if they want to.
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:24am
      - Tall Man
        
        I realise that. I was referring to you “congratulations” to the army but they have removed it.
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:26pm
  - Batman
    
    It’s also says that multiculturalism is good and has benefited the defence force.
    
    Hardly a repudiation of “wokeism”, whatever outrage that applies to today.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:35am
    - Tall Man
      
      Multiculturalism is a fact of life in NZ after all, if we just count the 4 primary cultures we have “multi” before get into the general population. Nobody has ever called multiculturalism a “woke” issue.
      
      Do you actually proof read some of the shit you post?
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:35pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      You don’t seem to have read the actual article every well.
      
      While he states that a mix of Maori warrior and British regimental ethos has been a great virtue, that time spend targeting diversity targets and promoting ideas which are essentially contrary to (quote) “resilence” and “personal responsibility” (i.e snowflakeness and victimhood and all the SJW crap) is all time poorly spent in comparison to their primary role or what makes the army what it is.
      Given the title and the conclusion and the plain speaking/author’s self-admitedly non-academic format it is odd that these are your primary takes from it: things that weren’t there.
      I don’t think he could have been much clearer.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:43pm
      - Batman
        
        I disagree. There is a differentiation between the concepts.
        
        To take a black and white approach (no pun intended) to it really ends up with a conclusion that a fighting force should be homogeneous and devoid of societal awareness and context. That is a recipe for failure.
        
        It is very much a case of those seeing what they want to see in it, as another marker post in the culture war against a mythical enemy.
        
        And it’s poorly written, which doesn’t help. Fair play to the writer for doing it anyway.
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:50pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “And it’s poorly written, which doesn’t help.”
        
        And he won !!!!
        
        Good god, how bad must all the others have been …….
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:25pm
      - rouppe
        
        @Batman I disagree with your assessment.
        
        What this Private was saying is that the armed forces needs to concentrate on recruiting warriors. This is because in the armed forces you have one job: kill the enemy.
        
        Now your specialisation might not be pulling triggers, it might be maintaining equipment that facilitates killing people, or feeding the warriors, or medically treating injured people so they can go out and kill some more, but the number one purpose should be recruiting those people.
        
        He doesn’t care whether the warrior is male or female, what colour their skin is or anything else, just that they be a warrior. He’s saying that too much attention is being deployed to making sure the armed forces are diverse, and welcoming to minorities and what not. That’s the waste of time.
        
        Now women should totally be free from harassment in a modern military because that woman might be the person protecting your back in a fight, or making sure you get supplied.
        
        But taking someone who isn’t a warrior is a distraction
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:27pm
- Prince
  
  That is a fine essay.
  He may have lost this battle, but in having his essay banned, he has certainly won the war.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Thanks for that
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:23am
- Loddenthinks
  
  A very well written piece, especially since he had less than a day to put it together. I strongly suspect the vast majority of NZ Army personnel feel the same way as he does.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:30am
  - Jack5
    
    What if this bright soldier were editor of the Stuff Chain, or head commissar at State Radio or State TV?
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    I would include Navy and Air in those feelings Loddenthinks.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:57am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I read it. I agree with everything there.
  
  It is a great read. A talented writer. I can easily see how this originally won the competition. It is disturbing that he was cancelled.
  
  Is there a link to the essay that ultimately won?
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:31am
- backster
  
  Tony….The same critique could (should) be applied to the New Zealand Police. In each case the organisation would be better led by men such as the writer than by the woke administration under which the current staff labour.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:39am
- Hacked-Off
  
  Thanks Tony,
  
  A good well written essay elaborating many points that I agree with. As an ex-soldier it is a disappointment that Major General Boswell, a man I have served with, did not have the courage and integrity to stand up to the buffoon Peeni Henare. Unfortunately the Army is not what it once was, and now we know that the CA (Commander Army) will not stand up for his men nor the integrity of thought diversity in the Army.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:57am
- oldfella
  
  Tony, how about we round up the gangs and conscript them into a new Maori Battallion?
  They could spend a few months bashing the sh*t out of each other on training exercises,
  TVNZ could turn it into a new game of ‘Survivors’ with a death-or-jail prize – those who survive go straight to jail. Works for me.
  Do you think it would get NZ On Air funding? //s
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:13pm
- insider
  
  There’s a couple of good essays on there. The one promoting diversity is well argued.
  
  My favourite was the one on slaughtering sacred cows , calling for a complete reorganisation of the army into a commando brigade model. Has a great link to a description of a recent war between Azerbaijan and Armenia, and the role of precision smart munitions and surveillance technology that resulted in a massive win for Azerbaijan and the loss of more than 200 Armenian tanks and armoured vehicles.
  
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  July 8, 2021 1:20pm
JibberJabber

Banned by the Army of Woke.
https://tinyurl.com/3z3u7rhs

I write this essay fully aware of the backlash and, at times, real world consequences afforded to the authors of similar documents in the current socio-political climate. Nevertheless, I would invoke the NZ Army ethos ‘3CI’ – particularly ‘Courage’ and ‘Integrity’ – in defence of the opinion I will express herein. The open discussion of any issue must be possible without fear of repercussions on both sides of the debate if the best outcome is ever to be reached. That is the fundamental value of free speech that permits the free enquiry, self-reflection, self-criticism and peer review that underpin our scientific and academic edifices and, in fact, our entire civilisation.
I will argue that the NZ Army cannot reconcile a more diverse and inclusive workforce with the maintenance of a warrior ethos and war-fighting culture or at least, it should not try. Further it should redirect as little energy as possible toward creating a more ‘inclusive’ culture in the way that this kind of language is understood in the politically-charged parlance of the present day. On the contrary, I will argue that, if anything, the Army should instead endeavour to become more exclusive.
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July 8, 2021 8:02am
- hullkiwi
  
  The author has been accused by nameless woke government “officials” of being a supporter of an ultra right wing advocate from the US, and having used their language in the essay.
  
  However, nobody has either:
  1. Identified the ultra right wing person; or
  2. Idenified the offending passages in the essay.
  
  So, you figure!
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:21am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    2. It’s Jordan Peterson isn’t it?
    
    Stuff’s unwoke bogeyman. And they’re dumb enough to think Canada is the USA
    
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    July 8, 2021 8:59am
    - Batman
      
      Wavey it won’t be Peterson, he’s too busy trying to pass a bowel movement due to his all-meat diet haha.
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:37am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Sad.
        Peterson is not right on all things/same page as me all the time (nobody would be!), but he had real moral courage, and genuinely tries to engage intellectually with interviewers, and seems to want to do good.
        He is really someone worth admiring for conviction and intellect in these horrible culture wars.
        He is also bang on about topics like Marxism and taking personal responsibility versus toxic modern philosophies.
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:48pm
  - RoboRob
    
    And so what if the author did use right wing language in the essay? All of the woke language they are arguing against comes from the ultra progressive left in the US. Why not some balance:)
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:15am
  - Nickc2
    
    How come all those nameless officials speak from the PM’s office? /sarc
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:00am
- Surely Knott
  
  From the essay,”However, increasing focus on these identity-based notions of Diversity only sews greater division and dischord in society ……, I argue that a deliberate effort to engineer diversity will do more harm than good.”
  
  “The trend over the past five to six years to increasingly focus on race, gender and sexual orientation feels like a return to a pre-social revolution era where these arbitrary features of a person were given so much more weight than they deserve.”
  
  Sounds like a Martin Luther King speech. Let us not judge by the colour of our skin but by the content of our character. Would MLK have been banned in 2021. Probably.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:30am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    only sews greater division
    
    I suspect the author meant: only sows greater division.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:28am
Kiwi_in_Paris

I never thought I would see a New Zealand government and New Zealand doctors breaching the Nuremberg Code….but I think it is about to happen.

I guess they are going to hunt down and shame anyone who doesn’t get the experimental jab, or worse.

Interesting that they use the word “hesitancy” because hesitancy implies a change later.
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July 8, 2021 8:04am
- krazykiwi
  
  Link?
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:35am
  - Kiwi_in_Paris
    
    https://twitter.com/ConspiracyCen/status/1412497791650308102
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:04am
    - Fletch
      
      People who have not had the jab that we have to “go out and find” next year…
      Sounds ominous..
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:28am
  - Jack5
    
    If you really are in Paris, Kiwi_in_Paris, what’s happening with vaccination in that city?
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:38am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I don’t think that the Nuremberg Code applies because the government has “approved” the vaccines, i.e., the vaccines are not legally “experimental.”
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:23am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The Nuremburg Code, IIRC, prevents experimentation on patients, while the Stockholm Convention specifically requires that patient provides informed consent before any treatment is commenced, and allows them to decline treatment for any reason.
    
    Giving informed consent is not possible while governments block dialog on alternative treatments and/or withhold details about side-effects.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:20am
  - Fletch
    
    Regardless of whether the govt has “approved” them or not, we don’t know whether the Covid-19 vaccines are safe because the clinical trials of them are still underway and won’t finish until 2023. So anyone getting the vaccine is being experimented on.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:30am
    - Batman
      
      Fletch why do you keep lying about this? The trials are complete. Safety monitoring will continue on the participants as per normal practice.
      
      “It is standard practice for vaccine safety monitoring to continue after approval | Article [AMP] | Reuters” https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2AC2G3
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:40am
      - Fletch
        
        And yet, there are still side effects coming up that years-long trials would take into account. Like the warnings about effects on the heart that the authorities have now had to include in the fact sheet and the unforeseen fact that the lipids carrying the mRNA (and thus the mRNA itself) are not staying in the site of the injection but entering the blood stream and ending up in great concentrations in the ovaries and bone marrow. This would all have been picked up in trials taking the regular amount of time.
        
        But yeh, most of the trials are due to end in 2023. eg –
        
        https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728
        
        May 2, 2023.
        
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        July 8, 2021 11:32am
      - krazykiwi
        
        “Fletch why do you keep lying about this?”
        
        Coming from the chap who declared that no one had died as a result of receiving a Covid19 vaccination I’d suggest glasshouses.
        
        And further…
        
        On November 18th Pfizer and BioNTech announced they had concluded their phase three trial of BNT. They had demonstrated efficacy of 95% and U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA’s) Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) safety data milestone had been met.
        
        The only part of this claim that was true was compliance with FDA emergency safety data milestones. They have not concluded their phase three trials. They haven’t even fully completed phase one.
        
        Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act) so called “unapproved” drugs are allowed on the market in emergencies. Similarly, in the UK, authorisation under Regulation 174 of the Human Medicine Regulations 2012 (as amended) permits the same.
        
        Love it when the manufacturers declare their trials finished, in 7% of the time usually taken. Liars.
        
        Don’t tell me you did your research before getting the jab. You are the research!
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:27pm
- Batman
  
  While it’s nice that KiP cites a source that literally has “conspiracy” in the username, the ongoing fear porn makes you look stupid.
  
  Hopkins saying health agencies will send reminders and follow up with people who haven’t booked, missed appointments, or are now able to get a shot is in no way “hunting down” of the type you like to imagine.
  
  Your credibility has been so thoroughly demolished by pharmachick and others that it really is just your virtue signal comments for upticks that keep you going.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:44am
- insider
  
  Everyone in the public service is expected to be immunized according to government guidance, no matter what their role. It’s effectively going to be turned into a performance issue.
  
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  July 8, 2021 1:24pm
Frank the tank

Add this to the sports producer who dared argue that Women’s rugby didn’t pay their way losing his job earlier this week in a gloating piece in Stuffed.

We should be making lists of the CEOs, Public Servants and senior management that are peddling this nonsense. These ideologues should be named and shamed.
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July 8, 2021 8:05am
- RoboRob
  
  Isn’t sports ‘journalism’ all about opinion? Surely he is allowed to hold an opinion that Womans rugby doesn’t pay its way?
  
  Stuff can get stuffed. The sooner the owner looses the dollar she paid for it the better.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:18am
  - amospicton
    
    That’s more a fact than an opinion RoboRob. Women’s rugby doesn’t attract much revenue – that’s a fact. By investing in it now it may do so in the future but the reason men earn more than women in rugby is that more people pay to watch the men than the women.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:11am
  - alloytoo
    
    It’s not even opinion, it’s commercial reality.
    
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    July 8, 2021 11:08am
  - Paulus
    
    Where anything woman is contrary to the feminist philosophy any male deserves to be castigated.
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:59pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Frank the Tank;
  Change that word “should” to “must”.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:31am
Master Mariner

Just thinking.
Rascism in South Africa was
Given a name and made into law 1967.
Apartheid.
What would be the result if COVID was not given a name ?
Would the world be any wiser ?
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July 8, 2021 8:13am
- fernglas
  
  It really seems to work with that Christchurch mosque attack guy. No-one is talking about that any more since the PM decided not to mention him by name
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:38am
- cmm
  
  While I won’t go as far as to say the whole CV19 thing is a stage managed event, it would not look much different if it was.
  
  Consider what a perfectly stage managed event would look like:
  1) Start it in some country that the rest of the world considers at least slightly dodgy: China would be perfect.
  2) Invoke some cross-over from an animal that people are fearful of: Bats would be perfect.
  3) Massive fearmongering.
  4) Massive flip-flops in “information” to confuse people and increase the fear factor.
  5) Lots of dramatic footage to engage emotion and overrun logic.
  6) Exploit people’s general ignorance of many medical and scientific subjects by using bullshit claims (eg. things that have never been seen before – but are really common).
  7) Obscure historical events so there is no context (eg. why are people not better informed about Spanish Flu).
  8) Make the state and huge global players into “heroes”.
  9) Use this as a means of pushing further intervention into our lives.
  10) Use it as a way to cause further disruption of Western economies.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:16am
- MCos
  
  That’s not the definition of ‘apartheid’, which was separate development.
  No doubt cmm would be the person to give a better explanation.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:50am
  - alloytoo
    
    Well apartheid literally literally translates into “Apartness”, which “in Theory” meant separate development, and the allocation of land in respect of separate homelands for identified Nguni tribes.
    
    This sophistry meant that Black people could never be citizens in South Africa proper as they would be citizens of the faux states, but would still be available as a labour pool to the South African economy. Non-African POC (Coloureds and Indians) were given their own parliaments, subserviant of course to the “White” parliament.
    
    At the end of the day Apartheid was a grand piece of failed social engineering ostensibly for the “good” of the citizens, much like ( would argue simply a variation of) communism/socialism.
    
    It included state control of media (Including banning people*), controlling significant parts of the economy: Electricity, Rail, Air travel, Communications, and banking (international Wealth transfers/ banking to farmers etc), Arms industry, massive subsidies to create industry adjacent to “homelands” or for export and protective import levies.
    
    On the bright side South Africa was probably far better at conservation than communist countries tend to be.
    
    * And we thought Jacinda’s refusal to use Tarrent’s name was virtuous, no, it’s socialism 101 straight out of 1984.
    
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    July 8, 2021 11:29am
    - cmm
      
      Yes, apartheid does translate to apartness. The -heid bit translates to -ness (eg. skoonheid = cleanliness, vriendlikheid = friendliness).
      
      And yes, the idea was to pretty much split South Africa into separate lands – mostly along prior tribal boundaries with black people being citizens of those “countries” – though the countries were sufficiently independent that they had their own parliaments, police forces, armies. Some white people ended up becoming citizens of those countries too.
      
      It must be remembered that apartheid was really engineered for the benefit of white Afrikaners and, indeed, had a strong socialist component. Many Afrikaners were communist in the 1920s with large Afrikaans trade unions etc amongst the working class.
      
      The main purpose of apartheid was to give the “poor white” Afrikaners a leg up and rose out of the trade unions. eg. they wanted job reservation for mining jobs so that black people would be excluded to the benefit of the “poor white” mine workers.
      
      During WW1, 1930s and WW2 there was a great admiration for the Germans for two reasons:
      A) The enemy of your enemy is my friend – both were pitted against the Brits.
      B) They were both nationalist socialist. Both had someone to blame for the ills of the world (Jews/Blacks) and both had massive socialist programmes for the benefit of certain group (Germans or Afrikaners).
      
      There were essentially three threads to apartheid:
      1) Social separation of races: separate suburbs in cities etc. Separate beaches, toilets, train carriages…
      2) Job reservation.
      3) Legal status surrounding land ownership etc as well as being subject (or not) to tribal laws. For example, polygamy was illegal for whites but not blacks.
      
      There are certainly some parallels to that observable in the emerging Aotearoa. Once people start saying “our people” you’re on the slippery slope.
      
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      July 8, 2021 1:31pm
      - MCos
        
        I recently read a book about Australian Breaker Morrant, most of which took place during the 2nd Boer War.
        Taking the historic detail on face value I’m not surprised at any animosity the Boers might have had for the British.
        All parties seemed to have treated the blacks very poorly.
        
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        July 8, 2021 2:05pm
artemisia

A lot of hoopla from the government about record numbers of housing consents. Unsubtle subtext – price rises will be down to ohhh 0.9% before voters can say ‘knife’.

Meanwhile

Mike Blackburn says the rise and rise of residential building consents are likely to end soon as the home building industry struggles with capacity issues. And buyers may balk at the new cost realities

This article quietly traverses numerous cost and resource issues in the housing sector – land, infrastructure, consent process, subbies, immigration, supply chain, shipping costs. The net of it – increased costs and delays.

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/111185/mike-blackburn-says-rise-and-rise-residential-building-consents-are-likely-end-soon
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July 8, 2021 8:14am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

“New Zealand will hunt down those who have not been vaccinated”

This is sooo scary. First they take your guns.
After being arrested, what should you do?

https://twitter.com/ConspiracyCen/status/1412497791650308102
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July 8, 2021 8:17am
- hullkiwi
  
  Quoting the Rachel Stewart example, that is threatening!
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Under what law?
  Let them first prove the need for the WHO/Gates/Fauci plandemic with benefits. Secondly let them prove it is safe. The promotion to date kills the integrity of what is on offer.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:01am
  - Paulus
    
    When you have 53% of the votes you are the Law.
    
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    July 8, 2021 2:01pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes totally wrong. As regular readers know, I intend to be vaccinated as soon as I am offered it. But I know that others have a different view. It is fine for people to be followed up “hey you have not been vaccinated. Do you want it?” If the answer is no that’s the end.
  
  Most likely the vaccination rate will stall at 80 percent at best. I would expect to see much higher rates in people older than 80.
  
  Over time it might drift up to 85 percent as people who want to travel to Europe realise they cannot without being vaccinated.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:45am
  - Ehlana
    
    I agree. The governments role here is (1) approval of vaccine, as for all other medicines and (2) making it available to the population. Once that is achieved, people can make their own choices and the borders can re-open. There will be an initial surge in cases, and probably seasonally hereafter as for other viruses. We will learn to live with this as we do with them. There isn’t another choice.
    
    I think having Pfizer and Janssen is a good idea. They’re two different technologies, so people hesitant to get Pfizer because of its new method may be happy to have a Janssen shot.
    Janssen is one shot and doesn’t, I understand, need the super-cooling of the other. Making it ideal also for roll-out through workplaces (using the same companies currently doing the flu jabs) and at places like GPs, churches, rugby clubs or shopping malls, which may be more convenient and accessible for a lot of people.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:33am
    - Paulus
      
      Like Pfizer the J&J Vaccine are not available to New Zealand – only the Pfizer is on back order as we are told by her that they are better for other poorer countries before us.
      Our great Charitable lessons before New Zealand – not what a great cock up that has been made here as we will see.
      Lack of vaccinations has done her no good.
      
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      July 8, 2021 2:06pm
    - fernglas
      
      If so, why is Cabinet not going to approve Janssen until August? Does this country not see the urgency?
      
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      July 8, 2021 2:07pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Both Pfizer and Janssen have been rushed to market with originally scheduled trial dates shortened – in Pfizer’s case from mind-2023 to Dec-2020, ie just a few months after their Phase 1 trial started.
      
      That said, the data around Janssen makes me more inclined to roll up my sleeve.
      
      The most toxic virus on the loose is StrategiumNillusCovidus – the futile pursuit of a zero-covid strategy. I’ve been saying this thing would become an endemic, seasonal illness since April 2020. Western government are slowly catching on … while Ardern (and Morrison for that matter) continue to pursue StrategiumNillusCovidus.
      
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      July 8, 2021 2:25pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    Yep, got my 2 jabs. Just so I can get the paperwork and travel.
    Dont really give a toss about the vaccine itself.
    
    Age 75.
    Figure I have more chance of dying from being hit by a one legged lesbian dwarf driving a ute.
    
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    July 8, 2021 2:54pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Did you get the paperwork?
      
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      July 8, 2021 3:21pm
- Batman
  
  Maggie I am sure you well know that this is not what you’re claiming.
  
  If he was talking about hunting down tennis players I could probably understand your concern ?
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:47am
- Sacha
  
  “New Zealand will hunt down those who have not been vaccinated”.
  
  How about this, if you haven’t already watched it.
  
  Is this how the government will continue to treat New Zealanders?
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ocDKEFsUY
  I felt ashamed. And angry.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:56pm
Happychappy

Real Estate Agency Barfoot and Thompson reporting big spike in Auckland House prices in June 2021, says new regulations not dampening cost.
Auklands largest real estate agency has reported yet another house price spike in June in Auckland where houses had risen to $1.14 million- up 2.6% from May, whilethe medium price spiked 3.4% to $ 1.1 million.
Last month Finance Minister Grant Robertson said New Zealand was still facing the aftermath of the perfect storm when it came to housing. ” We took this action we always knew it would take a little bit of time to flow through, but we are now starting to see a trend going in what I consider to be the right direction Robertson told the AM Show.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/07/real-estate-agency-barfoot-and-thompson-reports-big-spike-in-auckland-house-prices-in-june-says-new-regulations-not-dampening-cost.html
It only took a month for his view to be ridiculed.
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July 8, 2021 8:20am
- Ruahine
  
  House prices rising. Oh Dear. Who can we blame Cindy?
  Last time it was the Chinese fault. Perhaps this time it is the fault of the Indians.
  Consult Phil Twyford.
  He knows about these things.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:05am
Yvette

He Puapua – “the Government has gone down a rabbit hole”

While I have not often agreed with what she has said in the past – and some kiwiblog commenters indicate a similar view by their remarks – Dame Anne Salmond raises a point now on Newsroom, which does make me wonder.

She says, as I understand her, a view that proposes “Māori and the Crown will enjoy a harmonious and constructive relationship” has the perverse effect of excluding all “non-Māori” from the relationship, leaving it for ‘the Crown’ to speak on their behalf.

Debates over He Puapua are bound to be divisive, if only because of these exclusions, which include most of the population of Aotearoa New Zealand. The chances of the vast majority of New Zealanders agreeing to being set aside in this way are negligible, and the prospects of harmony arising from these discussions are slight.

She suggests – Whakapapa has nothing to do with ‘race’. Here, a person is constituted by the sum and quality of their relationships … including tīpuna [ancestors] and whanaunga [relative, kin, blood relation] from different backgrounds and places.

This is very different from the sharp-edged categories generated by binary [two part] logic, based on Yes / No choices – eg. Iwi / Kiwi, Māori / the Crown, Māori / non-Māori, which cut across the relational networks of whakapapa and whanaungatanga [close connection between people].

Ironically, such thinking is deployed by He Puapua and its critics alike. It readily translates into denials of shared humanity, in racism for example, in ‘culture wars,’ or inter-ethnic antagonisms that flare into violence and hatred, as we have seen in many countries around the world.

The promise of Te Tiriti, couched as it was in the language of chiefly gift exchange, was to enhance the mana of all the parties, and to bring people and their tikanga [customs and traditional values] together, as Article 3 clearly states – a future based on reciprocity and mutual respect.

With He Puapua and its critics, however, the Government has lost sight of this promise – as also happened after Te Tiriti was signed, leading to racial antagonism, violent conflict, and bitter and lasting anger. By focusing debates around Te Tiriti on this document, the Government has gone down a rabbit hole, with no ready exit in sight.
History should teach us not to keep on making the same mistakes.

Perhaps the decisive Maori / Crown split is why, previously –
Labour strongly opposed the declaration, fearing it was too sweeping and labelling it incompatible with New Zealand’s constitutional and legal arrangements and Treaty settlement policy.
It also feared the creation of two classes of citizenship and said the declaration would give indigenous people veto rights over laws made by Parliament.
It also feared the creation of two classes of citizenship and said the declaration would give indigenous people veto rights over laws made by Parliament. [1]

Is it why Pita Sharples, in his 2010 speech to the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues said –
9. In particular, where the Declaration sets out aspirations for rights to and restitution of traditionally held land and resources, New Zealand has, through its well-established processes for resolving Treaty claims, developed its own distinct approach. [1]

Dame Anne Salmond doesn’t comment on the current proposed six month consultation now of Maori “stakeholders”, on He Puapua, before any “national conversation” next year with the rest of the country, so I wonder if she would see that of a continuation of the Maori / Crown division, and this time definitely “excluding all “non-Māori” from the relationship, leaving it for ‘the Crown’ to speak on their behalf” – as “the Government goes down a rabbit hole”?

Newsroom article – https://www.newsroom.co.nz/anne-salmond-he-puapua-and-a-forgotten-promise
[1] http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3599153/NZ-does-U-turn-on-rights-charter
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July 8, 2021 8:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There was an ad on TV1 last night for He Puapua.
  
  How come? This has not had any Parliamentary attention. There is not any law in force regarding it in NZ.
  
  Is the govt just doing as it pleases and has abandoned all sense of responsibility?
  Do the people have to get more forceful to bring extra-regal Ardern back under control?
  Have Maori already accomplished their takeover?
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:07am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Have Maori already accomplished their takeover?”
    
    Rhetorical I assume.
    
    Maori have not taken over, a very very small but vocal cabal have managed to hijack the labour party.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:13am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      A.K.A Takeover.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:06pm
      - Tall Man
        
        My point Kev is that it is a small minority. Most Maori are appalled at this shit.
        
        Why do you think Tukaki was voted out?
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:37pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    What was the basis of the advert?
    
    I have seen the 3 Waters sludge cartoon properganda which was bad enough. It says all water is going to be contaminated. The inference is the government are the only ones to fix it.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:21am
    - Paulus
      
      To stop water contamination pissing must be banned and rainfall must be stopped or Marae directed.
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:14am
    - graham
      
      The inference is the government are the only ones to fix it.
      
      … which comes as somewhat of a surprise to those of us who have lived on tank water for years and years.
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:24am
      - Ehlana
        
        And is a great cause of concern to others of us. If this government fixes water the way it has fixed poverty and homelessness etc., our future is fearful indeed.
        
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        July 8, 2021 10:36am
      - Paulus
        
        Tank water will be banned as not Maori controlled.
        
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        July 8, 2021 2:08pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Maori will put a meter on your tank discharge line and you will be billed accordingly (meter rental charges included.
        
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        July 8, 2021 2:25pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I didn’t watch it too intently. It appeared to be govt (agency?) sponsored.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:08pm
  - Bob
    
    electioneering!!
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:15am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    As long as 53% sheeple including the “traitors” are behind Cindy, she can do anything she wants. Do you have a problem with that bro?
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:29am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Greatly.
      The PM is not Sovereign. Only Parliament as a whole has that. An English King was reminded about it before his head was presented to the axeman.
      Only Parliament in NZ has the right to vote its approval of the expenditure of monies from taxation.
      Labour may have a temporary excessive majority but that does not enlarge its rights. It make the exercise of power more tricky as they can slip outside their boundaries.
      
      Labour are inviting recall provisions to be enacted. They may be extended as well to MP’s and their conduct with enforceable penalties even after they have left Office. Govts who don’t obey the long established rules or exceed their authority will have to be made accountable.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:22pm
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        My point Kev is this. Sheeple of this country cannot do a damn until 2023. Labour are not going to change their track until few opinion polls show they have started to lose position to the useless National. I don’t see that happening because every week Toxic Tova presents a nasty piece on National or Judith.
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:19pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Your description is probably a fair presentation of the current state of political corruption.
        I’m close to drafting a Bill to recall and chastise failed MP’s or those who breach their duties of care.
        
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        July 8, 2021 5:15pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Reverse apartheid.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:21pm
  - oldfella
    
    kev, what did the He Puapua TV ad say? And if it was an ad, what would be the justification for running it?
    I thought HPP wasn’t yet Govt policy, just a discussion document.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:28pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      So did I. Next time I will have to take more notice. (It was in the later evening.)
      
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      July 8, 2021 5:16pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Dame Anne Salmond is probably coming to the realisation that whilst she has been advocating for a weaving together of the peoples and cultures that make up NZ, many political Maori are no longer interested in that approach.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:21am
  - DeepBlue
    
    As a white person she will not be consulted, despite her years of contribution to the field.
    
    Only approved opinions are accepted now. This looks like Mao’s education cleanout, but on a slow rollout so people don’t notice.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:22am
    - Master Mariner
      
      The beauty with Mao he sent all academics to the rice fields to learn hard labour much like himself.
      
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      July 8, 2021 1:30pm
- RockyJ
  
  Thanks Yvette. I read the Newsroom article and struggled to understand what conclusions it made. This is similar to my experience in standing up to a joint push by iwi and greens to implement co-governance of the coastline of Waiheke Island.
  Their written announcements, website, newspaper articles, submissions etc, are an indecipherable word soup of grandiose ideas coupled with a liberal topping of Maori phrases we are all expected to understand. They are deliberately obtuse and misleading. This is done to disguise their real objectives from a public who would find them alarming. It also reflects their sloppy thinking and an inability to derive an argument from logic.
  At the end of the day it is possible to defeat them. You just need to flush out their real intentions, expressed in plain English, and put these in front of the public. These people are intellectual bullies. The way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them as they are also cowards.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:38am
  - Paulus
    
    Including Waiheke they only want to stop the new Marina, despite top legal go ahead.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:16am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I, for one, have no desire whatsoever for the Crown to speak on my behalf. I might be an old fart with a Gold Card, but I still have sufficient intelligence to think for myself.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:38am
I remember when

South Korea Covid Cases/Deaths to 24 June, 2021:
(Using Statista Percentage Totals so small errors).
Also Graph for Deaths shows 70-79 as 5.57% and 80+ as 18.71% while on the Cases Page it mentions 6.4% for 70s and 20.5% for 80s.
Total Cases 153,155: Total Deaths 2008 (1.3%):
0-19: 17,904 Cases – 0 Deaths
20-49: 68,230 Cases – 26 Deaths
50-69: 50,893 Cases – 312 Deaths
70-79: 10,246 Cases – 571 Deaths (5.57%)
80+: 5866 Cases – 1098 Deaths (18.71%)
Can probably be considered the Gold Standard for reliability.
Worldometer today shows 40 Deaths per million so 1 death for every 25,000 South Koreans.
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July 8, 2021 8:24am
- Tall Man
  
  I wonder if it includes the many thousands that got a cold, stayed home, avoided the tests and fully recovered …….
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:42am
- maggiemay
  
  So we saved all us oldies a few months in order to put out babes and children through this RSV hell. Who would have thought? (Sarc)
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:59am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I’m very concerned about flu season this year and next. The natural herd immunity must be falling and I suspect many people haven’t kept up with their usual annual vaxinations because the Covid Vax has confused timings.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:10am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Unfortunately behind a paywall… but children’s immunisations dropped last year and are still low.
      
      https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/news/child-immunisation-rates-fail-recover-drop-during-covid-19-lockdowns
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:34am
  - Pharmachick
    
    There’s a very good drug, but its very expensive. It is better to be given prophylactically, but can be given in response to disease, as is common in the NICU her an in Europe. Called Palivizumab. Only approved in NZ in 100 mg vials. I genuinely wonder why we haven’t heard anything about its use. Perhaps our journalists simply don’t know the right questions to ask.
    
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    July 8, 2021 11:16am
    - Tall Man
      
      “Perhaps our journalists simply don’t know the right questions to ask.”
      
      Again, rhetorical I assume.
      
      Unless the “approved” questions are on the ardern approved song sheet they remain unasked.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:40pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        So what I was hinting at is Pav is very, very expensive. The dosage is 15 mg/kg, but only 100 mg vials in NZ. Now, think about how many kgs a baby in the NICU might be. There is a very specific guideline in the approval that says the vial can only be used ONCE for ONE patient, because usage is infectious disease… read between the lines.
        
        Oh yes (warning PDF): https://medsafe.govt.nz/profs/Datasheet/s/synagisinj.pdf
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:50pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Also, to be completely fair, I have no idea how much Medsafe/Pharmac/DHBs have on hand in their stock piles, its not commonly used so probably a lot less than e.g. morphine.
        
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        July 8, 2021 12:52pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Last comment – I re-read my post and I want to make it clear that I’ve never met a Pediatric Intensivist that wouldn’t pull out ALL the stops for a gravely ill child. NEVER. My main point(s) were:
        
        (1) Why is the 100mg vial only approved with 15 mg/kg doses when the target population in babies and toddlers and there is a 50 mg vial available.
        
        (2) How much did they even have on hand, do they still have it, and if not; what are the plans to procure more (this scenario is not dissimilar to the Covid Vax story).
        
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        July 8, 2021 1:34pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/114832273/jim-hubbard-cartoons

The perfect visualisation of how the Pro Hate Speech group are framing the argument.
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July 8, 2021 8:34am
- kowtow
  
  Indeed , that cartoon could in itself constitute “hate speech” as proposed by this regime.
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:49am
- Jack5
  
  That cartoon’s like official cartoons from Germany, 1938.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:40am
  - Jack5
    
    Perhaps Hubbard and Murdoch think cartoons will be exempt from free-speech repression by Ardernists.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:49am
    - oldfella
      
      Jack, fortunately Garrick Tremain is still doing his thing on the Bassett, Brash, and Hide site.
      This is a good example of how genuine political cartoonists do it.
      https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/cartoon-of-the-day-25
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:42pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The cartoon is a bit racist and classist.
  The “bad guy” is portrayed as a white, working-class, middle-aged male, where in real life, the SJW type will likely be quite different (young, socialist, female, and often from a middle-class background).
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:46am
Maggie Pie

Word Of The Day 😀

LYMPH (>n) To walk with a lisp.
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July 8, 2021 8:35am
- krazykiwi
  
  Here is the Washington Post’s Mensa Invitational which once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition.
  
  Here are the winners:
  1. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period of time.
  2. Ignoranus : A person who’s both stupid and an asshole.
  3. Intaxicaton : Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.
  4. Reintarnation : Coming back to life as a hillbilly.
  5. Bozone ( n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.
  6. Foreploy : Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid.
  7. Giraffiti : Vandalism spray-painted very, very high
  8. Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn’t get it.
  9. Inoculatte : To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.
  10. Osteopornosis : A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.)
  11. Karmageddon : It’s like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it’s like, a serious bummer.
  12. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you.
  13. Glibido : All talk and no action.
  14. Dope-ler Effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
  15. Arachnoleptic Fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you’ve accidentally walked through a spider web.
  16. Beelzebug (n.) : Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.
  17. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a worm in the fruit you’re eating.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:30am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    #13. Labour to a T.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:46am
- JibberJabber
  
  ?
  Pokemon , n.. A Rastafarian proctologist.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:41am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  As in the MP for Tijuana??
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:53am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I’m sure you’ve got some in nodes somewhere.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:25pm
curry4me

ASTERISK PRESIDENCY: Episode 25.
Direct from Harveywood, here is this week’s episode of Asterisk Presidency. Brought to you by the CCP, MSM, Wall Street, $oros, ANTIFA, BLM, CDC, Nordstream, globalists, ‘academia’, FBI, CIA, NSA, and Burisma.
Will Eric Cartman freak when he finds out Sleepy Joe ordered a probe. Will Mayor Pete be the new ‘Veep”? Will it be ‘Dr Jill’? Would Quemala even be able to beat Pierre Delecto in 2024? Inflation is back. Will flares and hot pants follow? Should it be called Bidenflation? Will the Treasury start adding zeroes to US money? Will Cuomo take responsibility for rest home deaths? Will there be more shootings in NY than Chicago? Will a state of emergency help? Which one will beat St Louis to become Detroit 3.0? Does $0.16 off the cost of a BBQ nix the rest of Bidenflation? Does it mean his ‘economic plan’ is working? Is the presitator smiling? Can Sleepy Joe answer a question without notes? Is this the slowest recovery ever? Will the infrastructure plan pass? Will donor firms get most of the contracts? Would anyone be surprised? Will Sleepy Joe close the border to stop a Covid surge? Will he drop his cue cards? Is ‘Dr Jill’ also nurse Jill? Will the MSM run out of soft ball questions? Will other stores stockpile to beat Bidenflation? Will the NSA start reading Don Lemon’s e.mails? Will public school enrolment fall further? How many Afghan troops will surrender to the Taliban? Is Sleepy Joe a Potemkin president? Does he think Potempkin is Putin’s deputy? Has his amazing success killed the GOP? Are the MSM nostalgic for President Trump yet? Have some enrolled for solar panel installation work? What if 2020 election audits show Trump won? Will there be more class actions against big tech? How many more countries will reject global minimum tax? Will Sleepy Joe protect the Hyde amendment? Does he think compos mentos is a pasta dish? Will the WaPo give the WH three Pinocchios next week? Will another state pay tourists to visit? Stay tuned folks?
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July 8, 2021 8:43am
- Batman
  
  Interested why you think making international corporations pay a consistent level of tax is bad?
  
  Is it just because Biden is supporting it? Despite it being worked on by the OECD and the previous National govt for at least five years.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:00am
  - theoldbloke
    
    Why not make international minimum wage orders, or international standardized interest rates.
    
    The reason that making tax an international standard is that….wait for it…all countries have different laws and aspirations. It would be a ferkin minefield.
    
    Are you willingly being obtuse or are you really the non thinking prat that your comment suggests.
    
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    July 8, 2021 3:06pm
    - Batman
      
      As someone who worked on this topic I would suggest I know more than an old bloke.
      
      But I digress, the comparators you have suggested are different in nature and function.
      
      The proposal isn’t to have a standardised tax rate, but a set of coherent rules which set a legal floor which prevents companies from undertaking base erosion and profit shifting in order to avoid paying tax on the largest portions of their revenue.
      
      If you’d like a BePS for Dummies I would be happy to source a link.
      
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      July 8, 2021 4:07pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Legal floors are only that, a playground for corporates and their lawyers. Our tax regime is reasonable but it is the unreasonable who challenge it.
        
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        July 8, 2021 5:25pm
      - Yabster
        
        what a fcking arrogant tool you are Batty- BePS for dummies- shld I source a link for how not to behave like an ahol for you?
        
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        July 9, 2021 7:47am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      We are our own peoples. Wars have been fought over the right to tax. A global tax policy couldn’t be implemented without a global government.
      NZ watches other countries for taxes like those on company profits. Ours are comparatively reasonable.
      
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      July 8, 2021 5:21pm
  - kloyd0306
    
    What about all the other questions above?
    Oh, that’s right. You’re a moderator.
    As a commentator your last three posts have you at 2 and 28 negative.
    Go back to moderating and leave the commenting to the big kids.
    
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    July 8, 2021 4:15pm
    - Batman
      
      Erm, because Curry’s rambling posts would take hours to address? Who wants to do that, I bet you don’t either!
      
      My curiosity was piqued by the mention of the boring OECD tax work which has leapt into the political gun sights because Biden is now working on it.
      
      Commenting isn’t a popularity contest, otherwise I’d just post clearly insane rants about Jacinda being a communist and get plenty of votes. But the market for that is a little saturated so I’ll stick with holding up a mirror while you “big kids” cry and whine about it.
      
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      July 8, 2021 4:33pm
      - Yabster
        
        you really do need the how not to be an ahole link…
        
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        July 9, 2021 7:49am
krazykiwi

Interesting opinion piece on the veracity of material published in journals

I was not alone in my concerns. As far back as 2005, John Ioannidis wrote the very highly cited paper ‘Why most Published Research Findings are False’. It has been downloaded and read by many, many, thousands of researchers over the years, so they can’t say they don’t know:

Moreover for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias.”

Marcia Angell, who edited the New England Journal of Medicine for twenty years, wrote the following. It is a quote I have used many times, in many different talks:

It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgement of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.”
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July 8, 2021 8:46am
dave_c_

Believe it or not !
57% of Israelis Are Fully Vaccinated. They Contribute 55% of the Newly Infected
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July 8, 2021 8:50am
- krazykiwi
  
  In the public consciousness vaccination = no more infection. This is, quite reasonably, how we’ve understood the benefits of vaccination.
  
  However we now face the absurd situation where: –
  
  1. The public is not being appropriately guided that ‘vaccination’ for Covid19 does not confer immunity from infection, and;
  
  2. Prophylaxis provided by treatment with Ivermectin now appears to be more effective than are the experimental ‘vaccines’
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:12am
  - alloytoo
    
    “Orange man bad” is why we cannot use Ivermectin and other similar prophylactic treatments.
    
    There doesn’t appear to be any other reason.
    
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    July 8, 2021 11:45am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      There’s no profit for Big Pharma in repurposing out of patent generics. The great and good in the pockets of Big Pharma have decided that the peasantry should not be permitted to discuss or employ (and preferably not even investigate the possibility of) alternatives that might result in an increase in hesitancy to take experimental vaccines.
      
      Show me the incentive and I’ll tell you the outcome. Profit dictates pushing vaccination and suppressing all competitors.
      
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      July 8, 2021 3:03pm
- Fletch
  
  Israel is also the most vaccinated country in the world, and the govt here wants us to be 100% ?
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:35am
  - alloytoo
    
    If our vaccine rollout is going according to plan, it is , by comparison to other OECD countries, a pretty shitty plan.
    
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    July 8, 2021 11:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Bit of in-fighting within the Maori Council
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/new-maori-council-board-refuses-mediation

I cannot find any annual report for the organization, nor any account of how much funding it receives from the Government.
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July 8, 2021 8:53am
- Tall Man
  
  “I cannot find any annual report for the organization, nor any account of how much funding it receives from the Government.”
  
  Silly Maggy …… all of it 😉
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Seven Tribes means seven votes.
  Maori needed us to keep their peace previously.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Council has 16 districts
    https://www.maoricouncil.org/districts
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:25am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Ever better: 16 /7 = two and a bit. There’s plenty of scope for internal squabbling left.
      
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      July 8, 2021 9:43am
    - Jack5
      
      I think they need to get Steve Todd to sort things out with his beloved STV voting system. ?
      
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      July 8, 2021 9:46am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Oh, no, Jack! Confirmation that I have failed to convince you? Sadly, it would seem so.
        
        Bearing in mind that the 1986 Royal Commission on the Electoral System reduced the options to MMP and STV, and chose to recommend MMP, can you describe your preferred system—
        
        “that [combines] both the accurate reflection of voting numbers of MMP, and the direct representation of FPP.
        
        “In other words no list MPs.”
        
        —being a system other than STV?
        
        I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
        
        (To refresh your memory, see https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/07/general_debate_04_july_2021.html#comment-2968923.)
        
        Oh, and by the way, I’d be happy to help out the New Zealand Māori Council.
        
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        July 8, 2021 5:30pm
    - Southtop2
      
      Heh – https://www.maoricouncil.org/districts there are two places named in English – Auckland and Welligton
      And yes I did spell the latter exactly as the website has it.
      
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      July 8, 2021 10:36am
- surfing
  
  Will maori start to war again? As maori power increases to 50/50 control of the country, so will the fight for scarce resources.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:29am
  - graham
    
    Seems like power struggles are all the rage at the moment.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/tuhoe-leadership-tussle-activist-tame-iti-shoved-as-tempers-fray-at-protest/BTSV3IJA6ZSWEU6Z72OZTKFAPY/
    
    Protests within the Tūhoe nation show no sign of letting up. In the last three months, kaumātua have staged at least five protests.
    
    Anger at leadership decisions has seen some hapū pull away from the iwi’s governing authority Te Uru Taumatua (TUT).
    
    Protesters would like to see leaders within the organisation resign and for TUT to adhere to a Māori Land Court ruling to hold fresh elections for two trustee positions after it ruled the election held for those positions was invalid.
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:47am
    - trout
      
      Tribalism and democracy are uneasy bedfellows. In African and Polynesian society the concept of one man one vote does not take account of hierachical tribal structures. And those in power do not give it up easily. We see power struggles happening locally in the NZ Maori council, Tuhoe and in Samoa. South Africa is close to civil war; the Zulu Nation is at odds with the elected Government. Ngapuhi in the North are interesting; they cannot agree on leadership even with the carrot of major financial reward being offered. Elections are held but go nowhere. Why? Because none of the disparate hapu will have decisions made for them by another hapu.
      
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      July 8, 2021 11:25am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Maori Land Court will have no authority over the Chiefly tribal elders. Chiefs run the show.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:31pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “Will maori start to war again?”
    
    “Will iwi start to war again?”
    There. Fixed it for you.
    
    The use of the term “maori” is one of the outsider’s invention. You might see them as “maori,” but they may see themselves as something different (members of specific iwi).
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:03pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Indeed.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:31pm
- rjay
  
  Fake elections? Where have I heard that before?
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:46am
kowtow

There’s some very vicious , violent people out there and the courts don’t seem inclined to protect the public from them.

‘A man who attacked a lifeguard at a pool in Gore said “I really wanted to kill you” after he released her from being held underwater.’

“Judge Farnan said she would recommend a restorative justice programme be explored for the case.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/gore-pool-attack-lifeguard-felt-she-was-going-die

Considering this was a male attacks female one wonders where the Media Pardy # outrage mob are , along with all the safety at work ,lefty workers rights ,unionist types……
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July 8, 2021 8:57am
- Bobba Fret
  
  He should do some jail time IMO.
  
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  July 8, 2021 11:50am
Kiwi_in_Paris

Meanwhile the Midazolam scandal is gaining traction in the UK:

https://dlive.tv/p/unitynews+JOF93ming
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July 8, 2021 9:03am
Tall Man

Do England and Denmark not realise I have a big day planned …….
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July 8, 2021 9:07am
- Paulus
  
  Controversial England Win !
  – cannot see why our media say that – of course it was England who can do not right in New Zealand for anything in media jerks terms.
  Look at the video.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:21am
- Pharmachick
  
  Watched the whole game, with AET on mute b/c I was in a Zoom meeting. The Kane goal in extra time showed excellent technique in following through (and I am NOT a Kane fan).
  
  ITS COMING HOME, ITS COMING HOME, ITS… oh never mind, too early? (Rhetorical, its always to early for the ENG team)…
  
  Really happy for Southgate though.
  
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  July 8, 2021 11:19am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCdomlSDsts

Donald Trump Announces Major Game Changing Lawsuit.

Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report discusses the news that Donald Trump is launching a massive lawsuit against the big tech companies. This is his response to being banned from almost all social media companies. The Donald Trump lawsuit against Facebook, Twitter and Google and their CEOs if successful could have major ramifications for big tech censorship of conservatives and liberals. [6:54 I hope others oin it, and it achieves total success.]
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July 8, 2021 9:13am
- Batman
  
  These aren’t suits designed to achieve anything other than change the media narrative away from his court cases, juice the base for more donations, and keep up the imaginary fight.
  
  Or, they’re totally incompetent…
  
  “Trump’s Facebook lawsuit is filed in federal court in Florida. Facebook’s terms of service requires that “any claim, cause of action, or dispute you have against us” be filed in federal court in northern California or San Mateo County state court.”
  
  “Trump’s Twitter lawsuit also is filed in Florida. Twitter’s terms of service – which courts generally enforce – require that “all disputes related to these Terms or the Services will be brought solely in the federal or state courts located in San Francisco County.”
  https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1412795910430527489?s=19
  
  So the suits will fall over at the first hurdle unless they are re-filed immediately.
  
  Hardly a game-changer given that
  
  “So Trump sued the techies and chose FL as his venue. But:
  1) Section 230 protects social platforms from lawsuits alleging unfair removal of posts or accounts
  2) A FL law prohibiting such suspensions was recently blocked by a federal judge
  3) Discovery”
  https://t.co/SskkrSQU96
  
  I highly doubt Trump wants to enter into discovery over his communications and actions on Jan 6.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:54am
  - oldfella
    
    Bats, in NZ we don’t need lawsuits to change the media narrative. Nah.
    All we need are stories about first blokes, kids birthday cakes, weddings plans, etc.
    Works a treat every time.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:55pm
    - Batman
      
      OF, and? It seems you just wanted to disagree but didn’t have a good counter?
      
      Yes NZ media and culture is much lighter than the toxic hell hole that is US politics haha.
      
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      July 8, 2021 4:13pm
- Lance
  
  Trump is little more than a delusional cretin that pisses on democracy because he didn’t get his own way.
  Fact free statements abound from this bilious fool aided an abetted by the mendacious hollowed out shell that was once the great Republican party.
  The latest example is an orchestrated campaign to make out the capital insurrection was little more than a loud picnic.
  Video evidence… meh
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWJVMoe7OY0
  
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  July 8, 2021 2:59pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI_QwP5B-Xo

Newly Discovered ‘Ballot Duplication’ Documents; Senate Extends Fairgrounds Contract.

More Arizona audit stuff. Dominion aren’t playing ball. No surprise there. [16:07]
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July 8, 2021 9:13am
surfing

Just noticed this “Wi Spa” debacle in the US….
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/weimar-los-angeles-you-cant-go-home-again

Sicko pervert claims he is a woman and wanders into the female spa, exposing himself to women and children.

Wi Spa, authorities and now antifa seem to be on the side of the pervert!
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July 8, 2021 9:18am
- hilaryt
  
  On Twitter there was this about the Wi Spa nuttiness…’Plenty of left wing women suffer trauma from rape and deserve a refuge from cocks and balls. Is a left wing society one where no woman has any public refuge from cocks and balls? If that’s the new utopia, they may want to put it on the marketing’…love it.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:31pm
Master Mariner

Or Sperical trigonometry for navigation.
Thats ok now as we now see all the Matariki constellation by telescope.
The original great navigators of Aotearoa must sure like there carrots to name all 7 stars.
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July 8, 2021 9:22am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Long by Chron or Marc St Hilaire???
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:31am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Napiers Rules.
    Carry both tables and almanacs for both methods.
    Sperical trig mainly used for great circle sailling.
    Right bugger.
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:44pm
- rangitoto
  
  They claim they can see nine. It’s possible but requires excellent visual acuity and dark moonless sky. The faintest two of the nine are about vmag 5.7. With binoculars it’s easy to see about 100 stars in the cluster. From digital imaging and proper motion studies, there appears to be about 1,000 stars in the cluster in total.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:52am
lastmanstanding

IMHO across the Western world democracy is being diminished and eroded by the Left. As examples I cite Hate Speech Laws Cancel Culture and in NZ the push to have 15% of the population rule over 85%.

Unless there is a pushback the Left will gain their Agenda by stealth one piece at the time just as they have with political correctness.

Over the weekend I was watching the Carry On movies made from the 50s to the 70s. None of them could be made today because of the thin lipped intolerant Left. Mrs LMS and I laughed as we had when they first came out. Innocent clever tongue in cheek humour. But of course the Left dont have a sense of humour. They are a bunch of miserable arseholes determined to make everyone else as miserable as them.

Well not me. I tell politically incorrect jokes in front ot them and laugh in their faces when the poor dears get offended. Try it. It works.
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July 8, 2021 9:30am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Spotify. It is wonderful. I have Lou and Simon’s great piece on it;
  “A Maori Car.”
  It is a beautiful take off of of Bernstein’s West Side Story with that lovely song, “America”.
  The loss of that delightful humour is a tragedy.
  The lyrics date Lou and Simon. One line goes;
  “Brabham and McLaren came from afar,
  Just to ride in a Maori Car.”
  Apparently that song got the intellectual property lawyers in a right royal tangle.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:44am
- Jack5
  
  Imminent curbs on our freedom of speech wouldn’t be happening if Ardern hadn’t won the general election in such a clean sweep.
  
  Ahead, we have another 27 months of her tyranny.
  
  Thank you Todd Muller and the hara-kiri support party in National.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:55am
  - jgw739
    
    Blame Winston, Covid and the Bridges bashing Media. Muller never had a chance.
    
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    July 8, 2021 7:03pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  The Carry On series has never been my cup of tea, but I’ve always employed a strategy to deal with it so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel. I don’t watch them. That seems more reasonable than demanding that you or anyone else doesn’t watch them.
  
  To your point, I was looking at some 30 seconds in my garage yesterday, and thought the same thing about the ads (that I found funny) for the product only a short time ago.
  
  The eastern gentleman putting on an accent and saying”spray and walkaway!” with his missus saying “I wonder why, nobody think of this before!” all very harmless. Never saw anyone complain or launch a Twatter attack, have a rally or get bent out of shape. Shudder to think what the reaction would be now.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:13am
- hilaryt
  
  Funny you should raise the Carry On films…I wallowed in vintage Kenneth Williams over the ghastly wet long weekend. Genius, still hilarious, love the guy.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:28pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gore-pool-attack-lifeguard-thought-she-was-going-to-die/TUXJNSCXB33XOMA5DJNUGOI2NE/

Yep, a cultural report and restorative justice is the answer to maori violence against white people!

And this one too….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-car-ramming-in-downtown-auckland-woman-60-charged-with-assault-driving-dangerously/KKTP465CWQBCLF7WJAXAVFHYYU/
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July 8, 2021 9:42am
tf78

Can anybody enlighten me? When we sign all these wonderful Free Trade Agreements that Labour have been boasting about, exactly what NZ will have to trade, as we’ll have no workers allowed into NZ to help the farmers/orchardists etc.
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July 8, 2021 9:46am
- Sacha
  
  Well, whatever is harvested will have to be exported. What’s left, can be eaten by whoever can afford to buy it.
  So that’s another problem sorted –
  
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  July 8, 2021 1:23pm
Yvette

No Progress On Ihumatao Housing
“Eight months after the Government made a $29.9 million agreement with taxpayers’ money to buy the land at Ihumātao from Fletcher, there has been absolutely no progress to build houses,” says ACT Deputy Leader and Housing spokesperson Brooke van Velden.
“Worse than that, the Māori Housing Minister Peeni Henare has said he’s unapologetic and admitted that no other developer would take this long to come up with a plan.
… “The Memorandum of Understanding states that a steering committee should be formed. It still hasn’t and there’s no timeline for the formation.
“How little progress has been made is beyond a joke. This Government has proven time and again it’s hopeless when it comes housing.”
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2107/S00063/no-progress-on-ihumatao-housing.htm

Who appoints the steering committee – or hasn’t yet appointed it?
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July 8, 2021 9:46am
- Paulus
  
  Surely Ihumatao would be an ideal site for the new hotel Camp or whatever for incoming passengers as close to airport and other facilities for staffing.
  Understand the Aussie company who built the large Aussie facility near Canberra have offered to build one for us in 45 days – but like many others have been turned down so far.
  Still Ihumatao would be well used for many years and earn whoever owns it a nicely koha.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:27am
- Southtop2
  
  Ihumatao: A good place for a container based MIQ Centre for workers and international students – carve a road down the middle with eight sections per side.
  Built electric fences around each area. Drop in a heap of converted containers and some portaloos along the fence – so they can be pumped without anyone entering.
  With sixteen distinct areas we have 14 days of quarantine plus 2 in reserve. 81 acres would see around 4-5 acres per area, plenty of room.
  Next choice Waiouru???
  
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  July 8, 2021 11:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The crime against the nation is still a festering sore.
  When are the Police going to arrest the protesters for their illegal occupation?
  
  Is the rule of law completely dead in NZ? Maybe that’s needed for the Treaty cancellation.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:36pm
  - Nickc2
    
    The Police are too busy helping Maori Malitia organise their illegal roadblocks during times of Covid duress and escorting Maori Gangs when they wish to go to funerals and stop off at the local bottle shops on the way back to their HQs.
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Why are Labour MPs useless at getting their Ministries to perform?

Andrew Little can’t get the Ministry of Health to pull finger on Saliva tests
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/govt-breaking-point-health-ministry-over-covid-saliva-testing-advice

Andrew Little can’t get the Min of Health to build some decent Mental Health facilities or account for how it spends $$$$
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/446345/mp-calls-for-inquiry-into-mental-health-facility-projects-and-upgrades

Willie Jackson can’t get folks to form a committee
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/446419/ihumatao-government-keen-to-see-some-decisions
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July 8, 2021 9:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Is it Jackson or Peeni Henare who is liable for the latter issue?
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:50am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Peeni’s Grandfather was a National Party MP and Commander of the 28th
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:54am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    They’re both most likely still having a korero about that – could take awhile before we know.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:54am
    - Paulus
      
      What is a Korero – translation needed please –
      I assume money is involved !
      
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      July 8, 2021 2:15pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hahahaha..
    
    Peeni Henare was against a buy-out of the land
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2019/07/peeni-henare-warns-government-buying-ihumatao-land-will-undermine-every-treaty-settlement-done-to-date.html
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:41am
  - Paul Marsden
    
    For the latter issue, it is maori fighting against maori. I’ll wager a bet that we will never seen a sod turned on this site, in our life time.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:55pm
    - Nickc2
      
      A follow-on from the Raglan Golf Course perhaps?
      
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      July 8, 2021 1:19pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Why are Labour MPs useless?
  It’s the …
  Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright
  ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign
  of breaking down in the near future.
  
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  July 8, 2021 9:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Am I getting the feeling that a number of Ministries are not co-operating with their Ministers as they dislike being effectively being pissed on by them in whatever they do or recommend on a daily basis ?
    
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    July 8, 2021 10:29am
- ds
  
  Over on the Daily Blog is Martyn Bradbury’s theory on why Labour can’t get things done.
  
  The real difference difference between Labour and National is this.
  
  National are ruthless pricks. Nasty, bullying ruthless pricks and you need nasty bullying ruthless pricks to beat the bejesus out of the Wellington bureaucracy to actually get shit done.
  
  Labour on the other hand wants to give everyone a cuddle and an inclusive Hui with a vegan lunch menu in te Reo and a side dish of pronouns, where they all feel safe and as such, the Wellington bureaucracy isn’t scared of Labour.
  
  Trouble is if we let National back in they will finish selling NZ to the CCP and then join Keys in Hawaii.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:25am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    My god there are some sad cases on here. ds is just the latest example.
    
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    July 8, 2021 5:00pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  “Yes Minister”.
  Meaning: “You know how it is, I might do something If I am inclined. Don’t bother me again, my answer will always be yes.”
  (If you don’t know that, your too Pakeha.”
  
  Things will happen when I’m ready, my mana is at stake.)
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:44pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/rawiri-waititi-tikanga-does-not-discriminate/756PQNMH7LVVCUOPBNBORVHR5Y/

Yes , it does discriminate… because gangs give no respect to the victims of their crimes… Rawiri is an idiot, because he is saying we should be nice to gangs and give them money, but at the same time gangs are welcome to rape, murder, and steal!

Respect is a 2 way street pal!
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July 8, 2021 9:52am
- graham
  
  I can’t read the piece as it is Premium, but if Mr Waititi is indeed claiming that we should show these gangs respect then you’ve nailed it.
  
  “Respect is a 2 way street pal!” – this x 100.
  
  If gangs want us to respect them, then they can damn well start first. We’ve had years of thugs harassing innocent people and causing untold heartbreak and misery … yet we’re supposed to treat them with respect? Give me a break.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:38am
- cmm
  
  Any respect shown to gangs would be seen by them as weakness to be exploited.
  
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  July 8, 2021 2:34pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You show respect to a gang by keeping out its way while it goes about its business. If your not fearful your not respectful.
    
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    July 8, 2021 5:31pm
I remember when

‘Councillor Josh Trlin:’Heat on Councils over climate crisis.’
“Last week we passed Porirua’s new LTP which recognises “proactive response to the climate crisis” as a strategic priority.
We’re setting up a specialist climate team within the council, and we’ve begun to set aside dedicated capital spending for emissions reductions.
This isn’t about balancing acting on climate change against “fiscal responsibility.”
Investing in climate change mitigation and adaptation is the most fiscally responsible thing we can do.’
So if climate is “sun, rain and wind” how is climate change different.
Surely planning for possible adverse events is an everyday council responsibility.
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July 8, 2021 9:53am
- Inandout
  
  Irw, why not vote them out next election?
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:46am
  - Paulus
    
    Sheeple voters !
    
    3 1
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    July 8, 2021 2:17pm
Benedict Yu

Here is an idea. Andrew Little phone Tony Ryall and say let’s put politics aside. Meet me for a beer and tell me how you got them to perform.

Of course one of the answers would be to set targets. It works.

Just by chance I heard a nurse on talk back radio this week.. She said that at her hospital there were 15 ambulances stuck for long periods in the ambulance bay unable to offload patients because there was no room for them in emergency rooms.
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July 8, 2021 9:57am
- Paulus
  
  Little is not big enough to ask anybody to offer any help.
  He is an arrogant unelected Union hack and a lazy prick.
  But still Union favourite to succeed when Ardern goes, along with other Union favourite Michael Wood – currently stuffing up Transport.
  Grunter not in the real picture – a lousy ignorant and incompetent Finance hack.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:35am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I’d be happy with either of those pricks leading Labour.
    It would mean that they would be out of Govt. for a very long time.
    
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    July 8, 2021 5:02pm
- MCos
  
  Was that nurse calling from Australia because, although things are not flash in NZ I can’t find a situation as bad as that?
  https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/five-hour-ambulance-delays-outside-hospitals-a-public-health-disaster-20210421-p57l5k.html
  Things are not too good in the UK either
  https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55581006
  
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  July 8, 2021 11:59am
Loddenthinks

Congratulations England – first major final since 1966 and at the same venue – Wembley Stadium.

All the very best for the final – with any luck they’ll win and now that Harry Kane has some silverware he won’t go elsewhere!
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July 8, 2021 10:04am
- Pharmachick
  
  Just wait for the press to go feral “England can only win at home” etc. Bloody good job Southgate has done building this team.
  
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  July 8, 2021 1:00pm
I remember when

Northern Outlook:
In Waimakariri, 829 consents for new buildings were lodged in the year to Jume – a large increase on the same period in 2019/20 (507) and 2018/19 (545).
Key figures in the local construction industry say delays are prevalent in all parts of the industry, not just the consenting process.
Other issues include a lack of available workers and supply issues with materials.
“I’ve never seen anything like it,” Mike Greer, executive director of Mike Greer Homes, said.
“The whole industry is under the pump, frames are slow, getting plans drawn is slow, resource consents and building consents are slow.
It’s just unprecedented demand.”
Infometrics chief forecaster and economist Garth Kiernan said delays across the construction industry were limiting growth and could cause an economic slowdown in the next 18 months.
Kiernan said delays could result in projects costing more as well.
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July 8, 2021 10:05am
- Bob
  
  If the Key figures in the industry think that this present performance is slow, wait until the government has centralised all commercial activity under Crown control; then you will see SLOW.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Up the Waimak.
  Christchurch is being rebuilt in new satellite towns.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:47pm
CAKE FACE1

Professor Baker has gone full on mentalist.

The entire world is moving on to a policy of learning to live with Rona.

Baker says we should hide under our beds – forever. The scary part is that our socialist government seem to be agreeing with him…

God help us…
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July 8, 2021 10:22am
- kevn
  
  @CAKE… Cancel his job, stop his wages like lots of NZer’s have had to cope with.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:29am
- Inandout
  
  Cake, while the rest of the world starts living we hide in isolation, our fear stoked by a very clever regime which knows the average NZer is now as soft as blancmange. I can still remember when the average NZer was very opionated and their point of view was just accepted. Now many actually fear their own shadows, especially the retired you see dutifully scanning or signing into shops.
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:44am
  - tf78
    
    Inandout : Petition update 16,621 and counting.
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:52pm
- MCos
  
  “We always have to be a bit sceptical about learning lessons from countries that have failed very badly.”
  
  Michael Baker
  
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  July 8, 2021 1:53pm
cmm

This guy that really wanted to kill a lifeguard probably only let her live because someone else intervened.

“Judge Farnan said she would recommend a restorative justice programme be explored for the case.
The judge also recommended a cultural report be completed.”

FFS! This was a massive assault – even attempted murder, but perhaps it was all due to Captain Cook.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/gore-pool-attack-lifeguard-thought-she-was-going-to-die/TUXJNSCXB33XOMA5DJNUGOI2NE/
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July 8, 2021 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Seems some of the charges against this chap got dropped..
  
  He was also charged with resisting arrest, assaulting police, etc
  https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-southland-times/20210506/281565178629132
  
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  July 8, 2021 10:48am
  - Jack5
    
    What a mad thug, and how weak and Woke is this?
    
    Judge Farnan said she would recommend a restorative justice programme be explored for the case.
    
    The judge also recommended a cultural report be completed.
    
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    July 8, 2021 11:45am
    - rangitoto
      
      If I had been the judge, it would have been ten lashes o’ the cat and five years hard labour.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:03pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  He should go to jail. Oh no, cant do that, we are trying to reduce the numbers in prisons. Give him a cup of tea and a biscuit and have a stern talking to him!
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:13pm
TripeWryter

I realise this is reverting to earlier in the week news.
But yesterday I was thinking about the koha cash given to a Maori gang by the Human Rights Commissioner, Paul Hunt, and the Minister of Maori Development, William Wakatere Jackson.
Instead of cash koha they could have given koha in another form because the taxpayer cash sticks in the craw of the taxpayers.
Here’s a few suggestion about how tikanga can be observed in future visits to gang pads without getting up the noses of pakeha and Maori taxpayers.
* Take along a pallet of fruit – apples, pears, mandarins, oranges, kiwifruit, bananas – for the gangsters’ kids instead of cash for the gangsters.
* Or a pallet of Huggies and Treasures and winter clothes and footwear for the gangsters’ children instead of cash for the gangsters.
* Or what about a pallet of tampons and sanitary pads for the gangsters’ wives and partners and their daughters instead of cash for the gangsters?
I’m sure there are other ways of expressing tikanga, which the Maori Party MP Rawiri Waititi told us yesterday in The Once-Royal New Zealand Herald was about showing respect to the hosts – even hosts who enrich themselves on other people’s misery.
In this way neither the Human Rights Commissioner nor the multitude of other unelected commissioners appointed to police us can get up our noses by handing over taxpayer cash. (Or they can hand over their own money.)
If he had taken fruit for the kids or tampons for young girls William Wakatere Jackson would not have needed to get so angry and defensive as he tried to bluster – as he always does when he’s cornered and caught out – his way past a group of hacks including Maori reporters.
He could have said: ‘There was a need. I helped meet it in a small way and still respected tikanga.’
But he showed himself to be a silly Willie instead.
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July 8, 2021 10:42am
- jgw739
  
  Very solid point there TW. One could go further and express this in a more traditional way. Possibilities include, flax woven baskets (made by young graduates of the government funded Flax Weaving diploma courses), top quality hangi stones or even some nice fish hooks made from whale bone. Not sure why cash even comes into it really, such a European cultural construction….
  
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  July 8, 2021 7:50pm
Maggie Pie

So, I see where the Justice Minister would not express confidence in the Chief HRC this week.

And have you noticed how ‘The Race Relations Commissioner’ has gone a bit quiet lately?

Has anyone in government ‘expressed confidence’ in Meng-The-Merciless, since it was revealed he’d allegedly sought a kickback in return for helping to approve a pokie machine grant?
Even the fact that he owned a Pokie Bar in Kaiti, one of Gisborne’s most deprived suburbs, is not a good look either!

https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/local-news/20210617/kickback-claim-denied/
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July 8, 2021 10:46am
CAKE FACE1

There are a lot of arguments about whether Pol Pot was guilty of genocide. The defence is that the grinning imbecile didn’t realise that all these people would die as a result of his policies. He didn’t mean to kill them all…

However, by forcibly clearing out all the cities overnight, and sending every man, woman or child into the fields, the result (that about quarter of the population starved to death) should have been obvious beforehand. I think the question of genocide is therefore academic – he is culpable for the deaths of those millions of souls.

It all seems so absurd. It could never happen again, could it?

Then you look at the Climate “Emergency” recommendations by the guy with the God beard and Messiah Complex. His ideas are completely whacky. People will freeze to death or starve, if his nonsense policies were ever implemented…

I have a sense of foreboding. I can see the socialists winning the next two elections.

I can see the sustained economic vandalism burning NZ to the ground.

We are in a desperate situation.

I sense NZ will be ruined. And yes – a grinning imbecile will again be responsible.
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July 8, 2021 11:02am
Jack5

More regulation from the Ardernists ….

Folic acid is to be added to all bread-making flour, except, note, to organic flour. That looks like an exemption for Green-voting hippies.

Compulsory folic-acid addition is believed to reduce incidence of a severe handicap in babies. No question that’s a worthy goal.

The mandate has been announced by Ayesha Verrall, Labour’s Minister for Food Safety.

Breads with folic acid additive are available in supermarkets now. The second link below gives a list of them as available three years ago. There are probably more now.

To benefit, women need to be taking folic-acid supplement for a month before they fall pregnant, according to Verrall. She says that where folic acid is mandated in bread, and she cites Australia, Canada, and the United States, “neural tube” defect incidence is lower.

(The American folic acid mandate seems to cover pasta, cereals, and even rice.)

Folic acid is cited as reducing incidence of cruel handicaps like spina bifida.

However, rightly or wrongly, there have been claims that folic acid can aggravate other health conditions. One that has received publicity is prostate cancer. I don’t know whether the concerns are valid, but the second link below gives you an idea about them.

For those with such concerns, perhaps lines of organic-flour based, folic-free bread may pop up in supermarkets.

Folic-acid bread available now:

https://www.bakeinfo.co.nz/Facts/Bread-making/Folic-Acid-Fortification-of-Bread/List-of-Folic-Acid-Fortified-Breads

An abstract (from 2009) that gives an idea on possible links, or fears of possible links, between prostate cancer and folic acid:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19276452/
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July 8, 2021 11:31am
- Jack5
  
  The Food and Grocery Council puts up a case against compulsory fortification of food with folic acid:
  
  https://www.fgc.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/NZFGC-Submission-FINAL-NS-Folic-Acid-fortification-12-Nov-2019.pdf
  
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  July 8, 2021 11:38am
  - MCos
    
    I believe NZ & were to introduce folic acid at the same time as Oz, but caved in the face of opposition from the Food and Grocery Council.
    Maybe we can look at and see what happened over there.
    I’m picking there has been not adverse effects.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:09pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      See if the incidence of prostate cancer rose significantly in Australia in the years following the addition of folic acid to bread and flour.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:57pm
      - Tall Man
        
        May be too soon to judge.
        
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        July 8, 2021 2:05pm
  - cmm
    
    The theory behind folic acid is that adding it to bread will make sure mums (especially those that eat poorly) get enough for the growing bub.
    
    That being the case, they’d probably do better to put it in chips and coke.
    
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    July 8, 2021 2:31pm
- Nickc2
  
  It’s also rumoured that Folic-Acid prevents male erections. Perhaps that’s how birth defects are prevented but beer is the cure-all to that.
  
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  July 8, 2021 11:56am
  - Batman
    
    Countdown doesn’t put it in their $1 bread loaves for cost reasons, so if one is concerned you can subject yourself to that ?
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:34pm
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS. I prefer to take the beer medicine.
      
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      July 8, 2021 12:56pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Tastes better than flour and water baked.
        I want my Molenberg (Flour and water baked with some seeds and chook mash)
        
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        July 8, 2021 5:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are we safe from Ayesha Verrall?
  Why this revive this when it was rejected just a few years back?
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:51pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Deflection, nothing more nothing less.
    
    Tomorrow may be an info dump so expect twitter attacks on Judith which will need to be widely reported in the media.
    
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    July 8, 2021 2:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Why is my food to be polluted? I’m highly unlikely to get pregnant, although I’ am awaiting my first gtgtgchild.
  
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  July 8, 2021 5:35pm
Steve Todd

Yesterday, I posted an article about how atheists are “nicer” than Christians, particularly evangelical Christians. Jack5 had a bit of fun with me, as a consequence. Swifty was more on my side. I responded to both of them earlier this morning.

In my Inbox this morning — hey! If Steve Otto can do it, so can I — was an article to do with who created god: see https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2021/07/but-who-created-god-an-atheist-fallacy/?

Again — Jack — this encapsulates why I am an atheist, rather than an agnostic.
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July 8, 2021 11:59am
- Jack5
  
  Steve, I respect your position, and it takes more resolve than just being an agnostic, like me.
  
  On the internet, after decades I’ve just stumbled again on the Association of Rationalists and Humanists.
  
  This must be the old Rationalist Association, whose flimsily printed newsletters turned me into a rebel when I was very young.
  
  http://rationalists.nz/
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:10pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Thank you for that, Jack.
    
    I was unaware that the NZ organisation had reformed. I’ve been accessing the Humanists, US and UK organisations, for the last 10 or so years, plus several other atheist / secular humanist websites, of course. Again, thank you.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:57pm
- MCos
  
  Did God create Man or vice versa?
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:11pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Don’t be cis normative MCOS. Clearly LBTGXYZABC created gods.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:33pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    God created Man, who then created what he believed to be God (or gods).
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:00pm
  - Lance
    
    Considering God is meant to be outside time.. then the question is meaningless
    
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    July 8, 2021 3:07pm
- rangitoto
  
  Most atheists are agnostic. Atheist/theist is about belief. Agnosticism is about knowledge or lack thereof (of gods).
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:17pm
- Swifty
  
  Steve,
  
  for your pleasure, some brief doozies from H.L. Mencken:
  
  “A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn’t there. A theologian is the man who finds it.”
  
  “The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable…”
  
  “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.”
  
  “Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on “I am not too sure.”
  
  “The state — or, to make matters more concrete, the government — consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get, and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time it is made good by looting ‘A’ to satisfy ‘B’. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advanced auction on stolen goods.”
  
  Hundreds more here:
  
  https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/7805.H_L_Mencken
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:45pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn’t there. A theologian is the man who finds it.”
    
    Schrodinger has joined the chat.
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:02pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Great stuff. Thank you, Swifty.
    
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    July 8, 2021 1:12pm
- Tall Man
  
  And most of us don’t care, much as we don’t care what side of the bed people lie on or even who’s next to them, or not.
  
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  July 8, 2021 2:02pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    And most of us don’t care, […].
    
    And that is irrelevant to the exchange of views that take place here, every day, whether with regard to this, or any other, topic.
    
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    July 8, 2021 2:29pm
Herodotus

Wondering why it was taking too long for my donation rebate to be paid out. Logged into myird. All good as what was submitted had been processed. Rang them up, the person who answered was great. We will process the payment and it will be made within 3 days. When the payment arrived they included previous years. Thought that was a mistake then referring back to the bank account these had never been paid out. The IRD I have found out, is waiting for us to contact them before releasing payments, of our money. And there was no interest payable. Yet if I am late use of money is also charged.
No wonder the govt is flush with funds they are not paying out refunds, so those out there it may be prudent to check and call them if your case is similar ?
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July 8, 2021 12:30pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I cant believe you didn’t realise you had not received your previous years donation rebate! I guess I have a financial background and my advice would be to always check the tax assessments v what you filed as the IRD often make errors.
  
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  July 8, 2021 3:50pm
Swifty

When will NZers learn?

It doesn’t matter what’s best for the kids, it doesn’t even matter what the parents want, or indeed what’s good for taxpayers – all that matters is what is best for the education unions and the NZ Labour Party.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/125672364/parents-devastated-as-government-rejects-state-school-for-children-with-special-needs
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July 8, 2021 12:32pm
Batman

Six months after the invasion and ransacking of the US Capitol by militias who agitated MAGA supporters, egged on by high profile figures, we are starting to get a good account of what actually went on and who pushed it.

Unsurprisingly, the mob was swept along by organised and coordinated extremists seeking to execute part of the plan laid out by the Turner Diaries, in order to inspire and create energy for their cause.

This is a fantastic 40 minute timeline of events, which resolves some of the questions from those here about timelines and who was where at what point. It turns out that the organised groups were at the Capitol up to two hours before the crowd arrived, and well before the Trump speech.

The ransacking was planned by fringe groups, not by core-MAGA, though the main crowd were certainly egged on by public figures who spoke.

I’m sure many of you will downtick this and choose to either ignore it or post a reply that says something like “get over it, it’s done so move on.” But I think it is worth finding out who exactly pushed the crowd to violence and how they did it.

So, I encourage those interested to take the time to watch a very interesting doco on the ransacking!

https://youtu.be/jWJVMoe7OY0
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July 8, 2021 12:32pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  But how many of those people own 2 inch tall Lego models of the capital building? Apparently that’s evidence that they’re planning something.
  
  Note to the FBI: My son has a Lego Avengers tower but that does not mean he’s planning to attack New York.
  
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  July 8, 2021 12:50pm
  - Batman
    
    Thanks for proving me right that most will not take it seriously and instead seek to undermine the topic with disingenuous arguments.
    
    Battle plans the world over have been drawn in dirt with sticks and rocks by generals through to squad leader NCOs, that doesn’t mean the plans are less useful or lack intentionality.
    
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    July 8, 2021 12:53pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Or the guy was just a patriotic American with a Lego model of the Capitol Building.
      
      I considered buying the Lego White House. That doesn’t make me a violent insurrectionist.
      
      As for not taking it seriously, I’m not the one reaching to justify the belief of pre-meditated insurgency. I note the guy owned three guns but didn’t even think to take them to his “insurgency”.
      
      The whole idea of an insurrection when the security guards were the only ones with guns is nonsensical. The lack of any real weapons would suggest a lack of intentionality. No reasonable person would take it seriously.
      
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      July 8, 2021 1:58pm
      - Batman
        
        Lib – you’re laser focused on one particular case and very clearly did not watch the doco.
        
        You seek to undermine in order to satisfy your confirmation bias.
        
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        July 8, 2021 4:19pm
    - Lance
      
      @Batman
      You saw the Trump supporters level of mental processing in the video. L.A.R. thinks there were great people.
      Nuff said
      
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      July 8, 2021 3:05pm
      - Batman
        
        Lance that’s perhaps unfair. They were led to believe those lies because of two decades of living inside a bubble where an alternative reality and history has been created that caters to prejudices.
        
        Anyone can be suckered by it. Just look at the many normal and intelligent people who have been sucked into QAnon, an entirely fanciful delusion created by trolls on a site which hosts hentai and kiddy porn.
        
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        July 8, 2021 4:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Six months after the invasion and ransacking of the US Capitol by militias who agitated MAGA supporters, egged on by high profile figures, we are starting to get a good account of what actually went on and who pushed it.
  You are not saying Trump was right? when he was?
  Agitated? No Batman – infiltrated.
  Nice diversion pal
  
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  July 8, 2021 5:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Batman, you know full well I said this, yet you did not respond to anything I said about antifa and BLM.
    Batman, your TDS is bad/severe….
    
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    July 8, 2021 5:57pm
Happychappy

Kiwi midwife heads to Australia for triple the pay and better work conditions.
Midwife Sian Redman says she is now earning two to three times more money in Queensland than she could ever make working in New Zealand.
Since crossing the Tasman Redman told Breakfast her lifestyle had also improved, she said her work conditions are better in Australia, and her food and accommodation cost had dropped.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/kiwi-midwife-heads-australia-triple-pay-better-work-conditions
I wonder what excuse will be used by the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little to cover this because nine years of neglect is getting sickening after nearly four years of fuck ups in the Health system that nurses and other qualified staff are wearing for Labours poor performance.
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July 8, 2021 12:39pm
- Yabster
  
  2 to 3 times huh?- so is it two times?- say a midwife earns $75k- she’s on $150k in Aus or is it three times- $225k ? bloody big difference- when there are no actual numbers mentioned in articles then take it with a grain of salt- nurses and teachers are a classic- maybe they do deserve a pay increase but give me the remuneration rates so I can form an informed opinion! Also I am a Finance Manager I could get more pay in Auckland or Syndey- I chosse not too- Aus is having the same issue with their nurses, who are leaving for better pay overseas- its just the way of the world.
  
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  July 8, 2021 1:22pm
  - Tall Man
    
    These are the base salaries I think.
    
    https://www.health.qld.gov.au/hrpolicies/salary/nursing
    
    Remember that Oz still pays penal rates and O/T rates. Has a client working that banked $A600 for each Saturday worked for an 8 hour shift. Sunday can be even better.
    
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    July 8, 2021 2:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Poor excuse to portray the DHB bull.
  Jaspinda will just say OZ is paying too much and stealing NZ medical staff, NZ can not afford this —- whilst MIQ beds are empty but paid for.
  LOVE THIS LABOUR GOVT /////
  
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  July 8, 2021 6:01pm
Swifty

Once again our politicians prioritise ‘character’ over housing affordability:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/i-felt-sick-almost-90-per-cent-of-wellingtons-inner-suburbs-have-character-protection/LLH5VFTGDTJBXMTHT5P6VIPVYY/

But still they’ll shreik, when it suits them, “the market has failed!!!”

Hypocrites.
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July 8, 2021 1:14pm
MCos

I read today that a plane taking vacationers to the Bahamas from the US was cancelled because a bunch of high school kids refused to wear masks.
One can think they know better about these aviation rules, but that doesn’t cut the mustard with whoever polices these regulations.
So the plane returned to the terminal and those who could were able to rebook the next day.
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July 8, 2021 1:28pm
cmm

Oes noes: Herald says one of the mariners has the highly infectious delta variant!!! In scrolling red.

Where’s any evidence that the Delta variant is highly infectious?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-infected-mariner-has-delta-variant-one-new-case-in-managed-isolation-today/4XCDVFFJ2BS5L6ELFU37P7XI4E/
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July 8, 2021 1:52pm
- Cinematic
  
  Every reference to Delta carries the statement that it ‘may be’ or ‘appears to be’ or is ‘suspected to be’ more infectious. So I guess you and I ought to accept it is?
  
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  July 8, 2021 5:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  More infectious, but less severe? Or more severe than infectious if you have the jab that will not stop you from getting it?
  SO MUCH BULLSHIT FRON THE SOCIALISTS
  
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  July 8, 2021 6:15pm
krazykiwi

The EU are about to introduce a ‘green’ tax on commercial air traffic. This will be paid by every traveler, and every person on the ground who uses products that have been air freighted.

But get this – They will exempt private jets from this new tax.
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July 8, 2021 1:55pm
- cmm
  
  We can’t impeded on the fine work of international Climate Warriors like Leo De Caprio who flew half way around the world in a private jet just to accept an award.
  
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  July 8, 2021 2:23pm
mike45

Statistics and Lies

NZ Deaths from Covid: 26
Criteria: Anyone who tests positive for Covid and dies however and whatever causes the death.
Note virtually all deaths have been of people over the age of 70 and suffering from other serious life-threatening conditions none of which caused the death!!!
Example: The Florida man who died from Covid shortly after being swallowed by an alligator.

NZ deaths from Covid vaccination: 0
Probable Criteria: Must drop dead while needle still in arm and no other possible cause identifiable.
Note example: Pauline Hanna. Ms Hanna had the vaccination at lunchtime, went out with friends in the afternoon, spent evening emailing and was found dead in her bed next morning (9th April).
On 10th April the Police considered the death to be “mysterious” but on the same day the Herald editor confirmed that it was not linked to the vaccination.
How did the Herald editor make that assessment within hours of her body being found? He/she was certainly not quoting the coroner who is the one who should make the determination, if they are allowed access to the body.
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July 8, 2021 2:02pm
krazykiwi

True Story: 22 Days Inside a New Zealand Quarantine Facility [video]
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July 8, 2021 2:41pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I don’t usually watch longer vid interviews like this, but given I have family about to return to NZ I thought I’d invest the time.
  
  And wow. Just wow.
  
  Military guard. Food being withheld.
  
  Talk about human rights being trashed.
  
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  July 8, 2021 2:51pm
Yabster

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/125688427/a-minor-road-rage-incident-led-to-an-18strong-mongrel-mob-attack-on-a-man-in-his-home

Willie the dropkick thinks giving these guys Koha is fine- how intimated/traumatised would those kids be. A the three that got off -as if they din’t know why they were in the van.
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July 8, 2021 2:53pm
- BananaLlama
  
  Gangs are out of control in Hawkesbay.
  
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  July 8, 2021 3:28pm
- herb1
  
  These would be the people that Stuffs Sharon Murdoch attacked Judith Collins for not showing respect to.
  
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  July 8, 2021 7:11pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300352263/government-to-mandate-folic-acid-in-most-breadmaking-flour-to-protect-babies
“Ten to 12 years ago there was push back around safety but there wasn’t good evidence about these safety concerns at all.”
Although doses up to 5 mg daily have been safely used in some research, doses of folic acid greater than 1 mg daily might cause abdominal cramps, diarrhea, rash, sleep disorders, irritability, confusion, nausea, stomach upset, behavior changes, skin reactions, seizures, gas, excitability, and other side effects.
However, supplementing with high doses of folic acid has been associated with adverse side effects. Side effects of excess folic acid include masking a B12 deficiency, compromised immune function, and increased prostate cancer risk.
Foods that are naturally high in folate include leafy vegetables (such as spinach, broccoli, and lettuce), okra, asparagus, fruits (such as bananas, melons, and lemons) beans, yeast, mushrooms, meat (such as beef liver and kidney), orange juice, and tomato juice.
Folic acid supplementation was associated with increased risk of prostate cancer. By contrast, baseline dietary folate was inversely associated with prostate cancer risk.

Didn’t we reject this silliness 12 years ago?
Mass medication of a population, that would only benefit about 10% of the population.
More socialist BS.
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July 8, 2021 3:04pm
- Tall Man
  
  10%?
  
  Wouldn’t it be just the pregnant women who do not get enough naturally? How many birth defects do we get now? Let’s see if there’s a drop.
  
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  July 8, 2021 7:16pm
  - Batman
    
    When they did it in Australia, birth defects amongst babies born to aboriginal mother’s dropped by 70%.
    
    As with a lot of women’s health products, pregnancy supplements are expensive as hell and as with a lot of things, those at the bottom of the tree are impacted the most severely.
    
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    July 8, 2021 7:34pm
Fuzzysnuggleduck

Edit: this was meant to be a reply to Mike45
Weren’t some of the deaths in the CH dementia ward counted as Covid fatalities- yet never tested, from memory?
Can’t find a link now, but this was broken down previously as confirmed vs suspected, and a couple of the Covid deaths amongst those 80-90 year old were even negative for Cov-19 after the families insisted on tests.

So even that low number of Covid deaths for NZ is likely too high.
But gotta clutch that teddy bear tight! Cindy saved 80,000 kiwis!
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July 8, 2021 3:27pm
Gravelroad

England’s football team going pretty well – into the final of the European Cup.
And what might be the cause of the England’s team resurgence in performance you might ask?
See below.
Maori beliefs! Of course.
(Be prepared to scroll down a fair way to find out this amazing information).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/300352525/euro-2020-the-mori-belief-helping-gareth-southgate-find-englands-identity
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July 8, 2021 3:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Will the Clintons get out of this one by more suicides?
https://civildeadline.com/boom-these-next-two-weeks-will-be-death-knell-for-the-clintons-after-judges-ruling/
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July 8, 2021 4:03pm
- Batman
  
  Steve if you’re going to post links at least find something that isn’t an angry stream of consciousness, which in no way makes clear that there is any connection between the court case at hand and the Clinton foundation.
  
  If there is a connection, the writer has utterly failed to show that there is one. Perhaps that’s why the reference to the foundation is in quotes, because he knows it is unrelated.
  
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  July 8, 2021 4:28pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Really? It may even be satire Batman. Some even object to satire.
    This is nothing more than what the leftist media do by leaving bits of text/video out to fit their own narrative.
    Ted Lieu and Candace Owens is a perfect example
    
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    July 8, 2021 4:34pm
Happychappy

Davd Seymour overtakes Judith Collins in latest UMR Poll , this you could say is Labours Poll becaus this is the same company that does their polling and just another shit stir to wind up the Natonal Leadership.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unprecedented-poll-result-as-act-leader-david-seymour-overtakes-national-leader-judith-collins-in-new-umr-poll/PYCCGTEATQBHI3DRX766MSGITQ/
This is Steven Mills and the media stirring the pot for Labour.
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July 8, 2021 4:22pm
- Cinematic
  
  I presume UMR also found a plunge in support for Labour?
  
  Respectfully Seymour hasn’t the presence to capture an election. But he makes for a good agitator.
  
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  July 8, 2021 5:27pm
- Tall Man
  
  I said there would a hit on Judith tomorrow ….. Sorry, I was a day out.
  
  The media is here for deflection, that’s it.
  
  Any news we get is an accidental emission.
  
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  July 8, 2021 7:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is SATIRE – before you all get bitter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh8_DR36ReE
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July 8, 2021 4:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Newsmax, Trump suing Facebook and Twitter.
Oh no he’s not! Oh yes he is!
Well it depends if you suffer from severe TDS or not.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/big-tech-lawsuits-social-media-section-230/2021/07/07/id/1027821/
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July 8, 2021 4:56pm
Maggy Wassilieff

My Goodness, Labour is a vindictive Party

They’re going to make the next 2 years very difficult for Louisa Wall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300352856/breaking-ranks-labour-mp-louisa-wall-granted-speaking-slot-on-suicide-by-national
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July 8, 2021 5:12pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  and for folks who don’t know some of the back history…
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122339382/why-labour-mp-louisa-wall-refuses-to-know-her-place
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/108874063/mp-louisa-walls-hate-speech-comments-secretly-recorded-at-pride-hui
  
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  July 8, 2021 5:17pm
- PeeJay
  
  I struggle to understand why she is on the shit list. I don’t agree with her politically but she’s been a bloody strong advocate on mental health, gay rights and other issues. Her TERF comments were poor, but she is strong and independent.
  Kudos to her for not going out with a whimper and massive kudos to National for giving her a speaking spot.
  Labour really can be vindictive shits can’t they?
  
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  July 8, 2021 6:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Something for you brainwashed pro vax people.
If you are vaccinated, there is no reason for you to know or care who is UNVACCINATED.
Unless you don’t trust your vaccine …
This would be a good question for Chippie, and Jaspinda
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July 8, 2021 5:16pm
greybeard

Is it not time that we used DNA testing to determine who can legitimately claim to be a maori ?
How the hell can someone with 1/8th or 1/16th or 1/32nd or less maori blood claim to be a maori and qualify for the government-provided benefits because of this ?
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July 8, 2021 5:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If you feel Moari, then you are Moari.
  This was a quote on camera, dunno who, you guess
  
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  July 8, 2021 5:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Yeah righto mods. Here is some more conspiracy/truth. You decide, depending on political leanings.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bztxh5mvbewsrd/Vid%20spanish%20flu.mp4?dl=0
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July 8, 2021 5:41pm
- doggone7
  
  I’ve got my doubts about the Black Death too. With a grasp of history I’m surprised some political leader hasn’t blamed it on communists. Or China.
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Seem with all the downticks I have had on my limited time here today, this Blog is now infected with social lefties who have nothing better to do.
Some of us WORK.
Sorry ‘work’ is a 4 letter word
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July 8, 2021 6:18pm
Cinematic

I note the RSV virus is cutting a swathe. Wait for the next flu season. Lockdowns have consequences, most of which are foreseeable.

Humankind learnt over thousands of years to never focus on one problem at the expense of all others. Sadly a balanced approach was abandoned in favour of a media driven covid obsession. There’s a price to pay and unfortunately it will greatly exceed any covid wins.
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July 8, 2021 6:24pm
- doggone7
  
  When did you think the focus should have gone onto RSV?
  
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  July 8, 2021 8:22pm
  - Cinematic
    
    The point is the lockdowns have suppressed all viruses. There will be a catch-up period. Look for these endemic viruses to wreak havoc over the coming years.
    
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    July 8, 2021 9:19pm

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