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May 20, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 May 2021

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General Debate

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Fletch

More concerning reading about the vaccine. At least I find it very concerning. I have been reading about how the vaccine works. According to what I read in an information brochure online –

COVID-19 mRNA vaccines provide instructions to cells in our upper arms to make a harmless protein found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19. Once this “spike protein” is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them. Our immune systems recognize that this spike protein doesn’t belong in our bodies and makes antibodies to bind onto the protein, signaling our immune cells to attack.

The trouble with this is, is that according to an article published at the Salk Institute (named after Jonas Salk who created the first vaccine), these so-called “spike” proteins are not that harmless and are the cause of vascular disease and blood clotting.

In the new study, the researchers created a “pseudovirus” that was surrounded by SARS-CoV-2 classic crown of spike proteins, but did not contain any actual virus. Exposure to this pseudovirus resulted in damage to the lungs and arteries of an animal model—proving that the spike protein alone was enough to cause disease. Tissue samples showed inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls.

The team then replicated this process in the lab, exposing healthy endothelial cells (which line arteries) to the spike protein. They showed that the spike protein damaged the cells by binding ACE2. This binding disrupted ACE2’s molecular signaling to mitochondria (organelles that generate energy for cells), causing the mitochondria to become damaged and fragmented.

Previous studies have shown a similar effect when cells were exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but this is the first study to show that the damage occurs when cells are exposed to the spike protein on its own.

“If you remove the replicating capabilities of the virus, it still has a major damaging effect on the vascular cells, simply by virtue of its ability to bind to this ACE2 receptor, the S protein receptor, now famous thanks to COVID,” Manor explains. “Further studies with mutant spike proteins will also provide new insight towards the infectivity and severity of mutant SARS CoV-2 viruses.”

https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/

There are scans there showing how the spike protein causes increased mitochondrial fragmentation in vascular cells. Here is a link to the science paper mentioned, published in Circulation Research:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.121.318902

The more I read about the vaccine, the more I becoming convinced not to take it.
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December 20, 2020 10:52am
- Pharmachick
  
  Okay, so immunology 102…
  
  The replica spike proteins are in the mRNA design. They stimulate the B (antibodies) and T cells (that’s why you need two jabs – primer and finisher) to recognize the natural virus. So that if you contract the virus you mount an immune defence – your immune cells are not blind sided. The mutations in the spike protein have two main purposes (1) to more effectively inject the virus in the cell and (2) to evade the vaccines by introducing a new shop (antibodies recognize the shape of the viral spike, its called an “epitope”). So mutations can change these shapes, and then the immune system is either less primed (doesn’t mount robust defence) or in worst case, not primed. There are no variants of concern that are “escape” variants (i.e. not primed) for the mRNA vaccines.
  
  The clotting does not occur from mRNA vaccines, only from AAV vaccines (AZ and J&J)… AZ causes cerebrovascular clotting, ptienaitlly as high as 1/50,000 in women aged 30-40, also dangerous for 40-50. The J&J vaccine causes disseminated clotting with low platelet syndrome, also more prevalent in women, but only 1/100,000.
  
  The mRNA vaccines are safe and efficacious.
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:22pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    PS I am not your down ticker, I rarely if ever do that.
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:29pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yes, but what the article and scientific paper are suggesting is that the spike proteins themselves aren’t safe. And the vaccines causes the body to produce these spikes. I don’t pretend to know how it all works, but the upshot is that these spikes are introduced into the body by the vaccine without the virus to give the antibodies something to recognize for when they do encounter the actual virus. But if the spikes themselves aren’t safe? And it looks like they aren’t. I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but I am worried about it.
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:49pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      The in vitro (petri dish) data re: mitochondrial disruption etc is so far away from the in vivo (whole body) data as to be nearly meaningless. In addition, the article is suggesting that the mechanism by which the virus makes you sick is that spike proteins do more than just insertion, they also affect intracellular vesicles (compartments).
      
      The article does not support spike proteins e.g. from a vaccine as being inherently pathogenic in themselves, because the other parts of the viral genome and other viral proteins are not there in the experimental model to drive the original job of the spike. The authors have manipulated this very reductionist system to look at individual parts of the mechanism in one case spike binding ACE2 and in another mitochondria fragmentation. We do it all the time, but in doing so you remove yourself very far from the biological system that either the whole virus, or the non-natural vaccine-derived spikes come from. This needs to be scaled up and better, more complex systems used before those types of conclusions can be drawn. We simply don’t know if in the “whole system” there is a different protein/molecule/cell compartment that acts in a protective manner and because this is so reductionist, the results are spurious. It doesn’t meant they’re WRONG, its just too early to tell.
      
      This is why I get annoyed with authors that have very preliminary data, that needs confirmation and more complex systems over-analyzing their data and over-promising what it means. Usually in pursuit of the next research grant. The nuances are also often lost on the lay public.
      
      Circ Research is a good journal.
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:28pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        PS My favourite example is the number of times Biomedical researchers have cured cancer in vitro (Petri dish) is breathtakingly embarrassing for us in terms of honesty (none), over sell (too much) and in the blind pursuit of the next research funding (very hard to get right now).
        
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        May 20, 2021 1:39pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Thank you Pharmachick. I always welcome your expert insights – much appreciated.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I will not take it after recently having an anaphylactic attack. Crazy to have an untested drug
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:22pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Anaphylaxis caused by Moderna and Pfizer is directly related to allergy to polyethylene glycol (PEG) one of the carriers in the liposomal packaging used to “wrap” the mRNA so it an be delivered to target. Anaphylaxis is an incredibly specific reaction. If you’re not allergic to PEG, you should be fine.
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:32pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Only reacted to Pholcodine and Suxamethonium.
      Medic Alert tag on it’s way
      
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      May 20, 2021 3:09pm
  - Vory v zakone
    
    So what is behind this US evaluation?
    ??
    
    https://youtu.be/iR_dmmUIDFY
    
    VAERS weekly update
    14 May 2021
    
    Deaths: 4,057
    Adverse events: 192,954. Pharmaceuticals have been recalled from market for fewer than ten deaths. Why not these?
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:58pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      The adverse events have mainly been seen with AZ and J&J. When Ontario, Canada was reporting 19 clots per million in women 30-40 and 10/million in 40-50 for AZ, with high fatality rates (50-70%, initially) many did ask for recall. That is effectively what has happened. Indeed, several territories have restricted or withdrawn use of those vaccines (Canadian Provinces have differing advice as health care is largely provincial, BC is no longer giving first shots of AZ at all, and may well not give second shots. ON and AB are similar. Australia has restricted it to over 50 etc). Don’t worry NZ isn’t in line for AZ [so far].
      
      The anaphylaxis in mRNA vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer) has been categorized as a RSAE (rare serious adverse event) and rates have been reported at 1/250,000 – 500,000. There have been no deaths due to the anaphylaxis in Western countries (horribly unpleasant though).
      
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      May 21, 2021 8:14am
Happychappy

National says it’s ironic ‘Prisoners’ in our Country vaccinated before frontline Police Officers.
“I am advised that as of at the 11th of May 2021, 79 people in our prisons have recieved their first Covid-19 vaccination dose” “Corrections MinisterKelvin Davis replied.
So its obvious that Jacinda Ardern, Chris Hipkins , Andrew Little and the Corrections Minister value criminals lives ahead of essential New Zealand work force and individuals that have put the lives into making New Zealand a better place to live.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/national-says-it-s-ironic-prisoners-being-vaccinated-before-frontline-cops.html
This Government is putting peoples lives at risk with stupid ideology on keeping criminals out of prison and the separatism of race at the cost of many that have given their lives to make this better for those that follow.
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May 20, 2021 8:00am
- Frank the tank
  
  Imagine the outcry if Scomo indicated crims would get the jab before ordinary citizens.
  
  Here there’s just a shrug. Only in (little) Aotearoa……
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:15am
- Inandout
  
  Happy, haven’t prisoners traditionally been given ‘trial’ vaccines?
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:27am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Not really, traditionally the prisoners’, sorry customers, are usually there post trial.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:43am
  - kevn
    
    @InOut… brain will be along soon, he will know.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:00am
- Simon
  
  I recall the panic in the eyes of a cop has he worked a road block and had stopped my car at night during the home detention March 2020. Of course I wasnt wearing a mask. He was genuinely scared. Was interesting.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:42am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  According the toxic poll released by Toxic Tova 53% unwashed which includes Farmers, Small Businesses and Sheeple of Taranaki support this gummit and every move they make. So this is OK.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:45am
  - Happychappy
    
    Well this morning’s Newshub am show doesn’t think that.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2021/05/question-of-the-day-should-benefit-levels-increase.html
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:02am
    - artemisia
      
      Still hear talk from some on how the MOAB smacked beneficiaries by reducing their income. Strangely it is never mentioned that the reasoning was that the gap between working and not working had closed in some cases plus sometimes not working produced more income.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:22am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Being dignified costs money
        
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        May 20, 2021 9:41am
      - sooty
        
        Are bennies going to vote for an early christmas?
        
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        May 20, 2021 10:20am
    - rockape
      
      Wow that poll was quickly closed down. Seems they were not getting the answer they wanted!
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:25am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Hasn’t stopped Jessica Mutch-McKay from opining…
        
        And anyway, not getting the poll answers they want doesn’t seem to stop the msm from delivering the poll answers they want…
        
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        May 20, 2021 9:42am
      - Bullion
        
        Polls like this mean nothing, show nothing and are worthless source of information; just a way to generate content and get more clicks.
        
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        May 20, 2021 11:38am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    You’ve just got no aroha, have you…
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:11am
- zulumonster
  
  surely it’s just a simple consequence of them being “people in our care” – therefore they must be cared for …. “and bugger the rest of you ingrates” (who don’t vote for us!)
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:35am
- MCos
  
  In Thailand there has recently been, by their standards, an upsurge in covid cases.
  Nothing like the infection rate India, UK or the US.
  Thirty deaths a day seems to be the worst of it in a country of 70mil. However that doesn’t stop the govt coming down with a heavy hand. (Except on themselves)
  What they have found, however, is about half the prisoners tested are infected. Previously they hadn’t been tested, but their hand was forced when some political prisoners who were released were all infected.
  BTW
  Social media is thick with rumours about the health of the king.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:35am
  - grumpy
    
    “the health of the King”. Oh, I can just imagine the outpouring of public grief and concern…….
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:37am
TWEEDSE

I couldn’t agree more with Mike Hosking’s article today, “Is this government meeting your expectations?”

He asks the 52% of people who would vote labour to wake up.

Worth a read if only to find someone with common sense and a brain still left in the media.

(Article excerpt)
Let’s assume just for a minute that the TV3 poll this week is accurate. We know, given the methodology it isn’t.
But if it was, 52 % of you love Labour, you would vote for Labour. That’s more than voted for them last September. And that is, despite all that’s happened between then and now…

(Full article)
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/opinion/mike-hosking-is-this-government-meeting-your-expectations/
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May 20, 2021 8:00am
- Bill Felt
  
  “Quick question for the so called 52 %; what is it you see in this lot that that gives you confidence?”
  
  “Are you literally asleep? Or comatose and you are missing all this?”
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:13am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Comatose is the answer. People in Fendalton and Thorndon are celebrating their capital gains. People renting especially those with kids are in despair.
    
    Neither of these groups care about the vaccine because it won’t change their lives.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:26am
    - Muttonbird
      
      People in Fendalton and Thorndon are celebrating their capital gains. People renting especially those with kids are in despair.
      
      That was always true under any government. Both groups know this.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:15am
      - Jack5
        
        Mutton, when before did house prices increase at the rate of the present bubble?
        
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        May 20, 2021 10:00am
      - Muttonbird
        
        Last pandemic?
        
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        May 20, 2021 10:42am
      - Tall Man
        
        Jack, assets always increase disproportionately when there is cheap money floating around.
        
        The danger of the current situation is that it isn’t real money, merely recycled debt saddling our future generations.
        
        It’s probably like you borrowing 150% of your home’s value when you have neither a job nor not any plan to pay it back. You use half the money to make repayments, which run out faster than numpties imagine, then running away or dying before having to settle your account.
        
        Sounds like a great plan doesn’t it, but only if you’re a complete fiscal idiot ….. calling grant oh grant ….
        
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        May 20, 2021 2:26pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Hosking is still in stage 3 of his political grief cycle – anger and negotiation. Tragics like me have already moved onto stage 4 – depression.
  
  Waiting for the upwards term………..
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:14am
- BAM
  
  It’s because they don’t see National as a viable alternative.
  As shit, as Labour is and they really are shit, they consider National worse.
  
  This is hardly surprising given the wall to wall negative coverage in the MSM every day, people see it and believe it.
  
  Changing the leader won’t do jack, National has to get around the MSM and find other avenues to reach people.
  
  Who’s running their social media campaign?
  Do they even have a social media campaign?
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:41am
  - redeye
    
    My facebok page is literally filled with Seymour, Collins, Bishop & Willis – all highlighting this governments many many failings. I don’t do Twitter anymore but look at Instagram occasionally and see the same National posts.
    TVNZ, Newshub, Stuff & the Herald need to be reminded that the government will eventually change and the COVID advertising budget will run out.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:57am
    - BAM
      
      Because that’s what you’re interested in.
      Facebook is serving up what you want to read about.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:14am
      - Tall Man
        
        And you don’t think the media isn’t serving up what ardern wants?
        
        A comment by Michael Bassett..
        
        “Virtually all the editorial writers in the country, and even the Listener, support her in one way or another, either outright with their observations, or by suppressing counter arguments. “
        
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        May 20, 2021 2:32pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Hosking gone by lunch time. Cindy has ignored him. So he is nobody.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    And you? A jester at Cinders outing from her fireplace. Has she hired Santa too for the wedding?
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:56am
    - Paulus
      
      Didn’t know that Maori do Santa ?
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:30am
      - oldfella
        
        Paulus, yes, Maori do Santa. Just not very well. Ask the people of Nelson.
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/12/new-zealand-divided-by-nelson-s-m-ori-santa.html
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:32pm
    - Frank the tank
      
      “A jester at Cinders outing from her fireplace”
      
      Don’t give him ideas
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:23am
  - Yabster
    
    Cindy ignores anybody with half a brain as she can’t have a debate on policy as she is too dumb to know what the issues are, as Mike said he didn’t agree with Helen but at least she could argue her point of view- with a handle like yours its not surprising re your silly repeated comments.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:20am
    - doggone7
      
      Cindy ignores anybody with half a brain? Hence she’s moved on from Hosking?
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:24am
      - Yabster
        
        you sound like you enjoy wedding plans etc Cindys kind of audience…
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:11pm
  - Muttonbird
    
    Hoskings [Hosking] is heading off to Aussie, finally!
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/mike-hosking-progressive-politics-in-new-zealand-is-on-borrowed-time/O54WFNDQ3EIH522RFCQ3XQJRYA/
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:43am
    - Yabster
      
      more crap from Muttonchops..
      
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      May 20, 2021 12:11pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      Some of the comments 🙂
      
      “Mike Hoskings says he’s going to Australia if Labour are [sic] re-elected. I offer to buy his one-way ticket to Sydney,” one Twitter user said.
      
      “I don’t think Mike Hoskings will find it hard to find someone to pay for his airfare,” another wrote.
      
      “I’m sure there’s a plane sitting on the tarmac with your name on it,” said another.
      
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      May 20, 2021 12:20pm
      - Yabster
        
        don’t post the comments in support of his statement though do you Muttonturd- you shld be in the MSM…
        
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        May 20, 2021 1:01pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m surprised all those labour supporters had the time to post those comments … Thought they’d all be on tenterhooks today hoping for more freebies from the National supporters paying taxes.
        
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        May 20, 2021 2:34pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Muttonhead, that isn’t what he actually said, there is a timeline and scenario he stated in his hypothetical.
      Poor reading comprehension, son.
      
      Consider those talking of exit: I don’t expect that the banning of migrant labour is going to help get highly skilled and talented people here, nor change the ‘low wage economy’ in itself, when the govt. is not business friendly, favours prisoners and beneficiaries and non-productive people above others, and those with initiative will see greater opportunity overseas.
      Given that hospitality and retail and agriculture sectors are all going to suffer from recent policy, that in itself is not going to inspire entrepreneurs. Just like the penalties on land lords harm the renters – Labour, the party of good intentions perhaps, but only delivers unintended consequences.
      Nothing I see fills me with optimism. Best thing to hope for is minimal harm and wastage.
      
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      May 20, 2021 12:31pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Not what he said but I can understand your deliberate misreading of his comment.
      
      In fairness though, you do touch on a worthwhile course of action for those with easily transferable skills …. and I can’t say I blame them.
      
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      May 20, 2021 2:29pm
- jacob
  
  Yes, they are meeting my expectations
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:52am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Me too. Actually they are doing slightly better than I expected.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:20am
  - sooty
    
    Yes! They are even exceding my expectations!
    I expected them to be as much use as tits on a bull and so far, have not been disappointed and don’t expect to be! The only question is how many are leaving our shores!
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:28am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yep, they are meeting my expectations of them. My expectations of them are extremely low.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:48am
- Spring Bank Westie
  
  Unfortunately the wording of the question is poor.
  
  Yes, the government is meeting my expectations, by being incompetent and dishonest.
  
  However, I don’t think that’s what they meant to ask.
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:20am
DeepBlue

Yesterday Hipkins said we knew early in the year the ‘bulk’ of the vaccines wouldn’t arrive until July. Why did they then plan for Group 3 people ,1.7M, to be vaccinated May and June?

CDHB now running low, they can’t even do all their Group 2 by July.
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May 20, 2021 8:04am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Yesterday Hipkins said we knew early in the year the ‘bulk’ of the vaccines wouldn’t arrive until July.”
  
  It’s called lying.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:15am
  - artemisia
    
    More likely Minister Hipkins has been given info or opinion from officials who have layered on a positive spin. Like, for example, while we acknowledge a challenge ahead we are talking every single day to suppliers and working incredibly hard to meet your targets.
    
    Not hard to guess which Minister Hipkins chose to tell the public. And why.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:58am
- Paulus
  
  And we are expected to believe Hipkins along with all the continual lies he puts forward, whilst Cindy talks about weddings.
  She runs for cover and shouts back when cornered.
  This vaccine roll out is a sadly a fiasco.
  We are only 3.6 people (approx) in the adult category – a simple spreadsheet could be written in an hour to cater for this.
  We have been conned AGAIN.
  But 52% will still vote for incompetence.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:17am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Are you not interested to know about her wedding plans? Are you not part of the team of 5 Million who are eagerly waiting for her marriage?
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:48am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Who cares? Cinders is all hooey and no dui.
      
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      May 20, 2021 8:58am
    - amospicton
      
      I don’t blame her for trying to create a distraction from the ghastly reality that is her government but I despair at the media for falling for it, or even worse, aiding and abetting it.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:31am
    - Justitia
      
      [leave families and children out. Very close to a fortnight holiday – Mod]
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:35am
    - Frank the tank
      
      What did the wedding invite look like? Was it written in Te Reo?
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:24am
    - Crisplion
      
      I’m looking forward more eagerly to her (political) funeral. I fear I might be waiting a while…
      
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      May 20, 2021 12:05pm
  - Justitia
    
    In Wellington, the vaccine is being rationed by race. Whitey isn’t even on the queue,: http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=136324
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:38am
    - Jack5
      
      Interesting in that link, Justitia, that DHB Pacific people’s health director Tagaloa Junior Ulu said it was about “equity”.
      Ulu said: “It’s recognising that our Pacific people tend to get illnesses sooner than the rest of the population… but we’re also bringing their families in today. So you’ll see it’s not just people aged 55-plus, it’s their whole aiga, their whole whanau here, and that’s encouraged. This is how we are as Pacific people: we don’t just work on an individualistic basis, we work on a communal basis.”
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:19pm
- Simon
  
  Well at least all this might explain why the Cindy princess hasnt had the Ro jab. All her cult followers will want the jab all at once and the system failures would become more apparent.
  
  Or it cld be Cindy dont want the Ro jab [Deleted – Mod]
  
  [Mod – leave the personal stuff out]
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:35am
- RoboRob
  
  This ‘story’, https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125189142/cantabrians-over-65-may-have-to-wait-months-for-covid19-vaccine, says that the issue in Canterbury is vaccine supply.
  
  This site, https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data#by_soh, says Canterbury is doing more than planned and that the country has ALWAYS received more stock of vaccine than expected / planned.
  
  The ‘story’ about supply being the issue at the CHDB must be BS. If there is a supply issue it could only be related to getting stock from the Govt or insufficient storage in Canterbury. Both of these are government failures, nothing to do with vaccine supply. Im tied of lord Ashely and Chippy using supply as an excuse for other failures.
  
  Simple logic, if applied by the MSM, would say if one DHB has a supply shortage all others should too.
  
  We are being lied to.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:13am
  - rockape
    
    They saw the hospital built but failed to allow for the extra nurses needed to man it. It is therefore half empty due to staff shortages.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:31am
    - Paulus
      
      And I believe they did not order enough needles to do the job.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:42am
      - Observer of Life
        
        Pauli’s: Yep. Confirmed by my GP a couple of weeks ago. Surprised -NOT!
        
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        May 20, 2021 11:21pm
- fernglas
  
  Christchurch used up its allocation quicker than other DHBs. Northland will deliver the same number of jabs per head of population; it will just take them longer.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:57am
Tony Stuart

$5,300,000 per hour
$83,333 per minute
$1486 per second

As Budget Day dawns there’s a timely reminder of the rate at which New Zealand is borrowing money to keep the economy afloat. Borrowing is fine at the moment, with interest rates at historic lows, but what’s going to happen to our indebtedness when interest rates start to rise, as they inevitably will?
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May 20, 2021 8:04am
- Frank the tank
  
  There are some real scary numbers starting to come out of the states in regards to inflation. Shit flows downhill.
  
  I wonder how those people that paid $1m for a derelict batch in Ruakaka will feel when it costs them an extra $18k p.a. to meet interest costs……
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:11am
  - Apropos of the Wet Snow
    
    Here’s another great interview with Dr VDH on the state of America under the Biden Regime, only 5 months in. That which cannot continue will not continue.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg6pgXXMJCk&t=2783s
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:15am
    - Frank the tank
      
      The US is in the same boat as us – extremely tight labor market, surging raw material costs and shortages as well as transportation issues. A high end cocktail of inflationary pressures.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:25am
  - oldgolfer
    
    That day is coming. I’m laughed at when I tell people the cheap loot won’t last, but I fancy the days of 5% plus mortgages aren’t too far away.
    It’s all right, I have a hat I can eat if I’m wrong.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:41am
    - rockape
      
      I don’t think you are wrong and I know who will be hurt the most. All those first home buyers Jacinta promised to help.
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:08pm
- Swifty
  
  KS – can I gently push-back on the notion that the determinant of whether to borrow is purely one of the cost of doing so.
  
  I believe that foolhardy and not what we do in our personal lives.
  
  If our kids came home and said “Mum and Dad, I’ve just borrowed $50k from the bank because interest rates are at historic lows and now I’ve just got to think what to spend it on….” we’d think them daft or worse.
  
  Our government must not fall into this trap, but I suspect Grant will. The government’s main determinant of whether to borrow should be whether the benefits of the spending decisions stack up. I get the fact that the cost of borrowing is a factor in determining whether the benefits stack up, but it’s not the sole factor as I hear many people saying.
  
  An example – “Dad, I’ve borrowed $10k to buy a car for work because I can start work earlier and finish later, versus public transport, and even allowing for car maintenance and fuel, can pay it off within a year……”
  
  We don’t borrow money ’cause it’s cheap – we borrow because it’s a bloody good idea.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    They already have Swifty. Back before Covid-19 reared its ugly head, Robertson announced massive borrowing for infrastructure investment. His justification was that interest rates were low, so there’d never been a better time to get cheap money. Many of those projects are yet to see a shovel in the ground, and some never will. So where’s the money gone?
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:39am
    - Swifty
      
      I thought he might have, but wasn’t sure so I didn’t say it.
      
      Good grief.
      
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      May 20, 2021 8:46am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Tony, when you are printing money hand over fist, borrowing isn’t a problem. Robo has just printed money to buy bonds back. However, he and Cindy will get in the shit when they find that production hasn’t increased to soak up all the surplus money, and hey presto, we have inflation. Savers will be disincentivised from saving. Those savings will not be available for businesses to borrow. Production will be affected negatively. Money not saved will be put into other forms of investment that are non-productive, oh, I don’t know, like housing. And all Labour’s rhetoric around house prices will be for nought as prices will go up even faster than they have been. This is the price the 52% who claim they support the Labour Govt will have to pay. And fabulously, it will create opportunities galore for those with the financial wherewithal to gratefully accept to increase their wealth. Beautiful. As has always been said, a Labour Government always makes the rich richer!!
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:41am
      - Swifty
        
        Very well said In Vino Veritas
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:25pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        “Robo has just printed money to buy bonds back.” I believe it’s the other way round, IVV. The Reserve Bank has printed the money and used it to buy Government Bonds.
        
        When the bonds mature, that’s when the money will need to be paid back, and the cupboard will be bare.
        
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        May 20, 2021 11:00pm
    - Sacha
      
      Perhaps an ‘announcement’ of the intent to borrow money to use in a certain way is just that.
      It is never actually borrowed/spent, but can be redirected into another announcement.
      Hence the number of idle shovels – perhaps they bought with borrowed money too?
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:25am
    - oldgolfer
      
      Jolly Grant reminds me of a spender promising to rein in spending after finding a $100 note.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:43am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Cindy and Robber have a plan. They will take care of it.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:49am
  - sooty
    
    Yer right! Would you like to buy a bridge!
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:00am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Yes bro, as long as the name of the Bridge starts with Simon.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:50am
- I remember when
  
  Most of our present politicians, and the majority of the voters, have little knowledge of the world before the 1987 Global Financial Crisis.
  The GFC showed that instead of austerity we could just print our way out of financial strife.
  Firms that should have gone to the wall were propped up instead.
  To a degree it removed the consequences of bad decisions, as the government will prevent you having to suffer.
  The effects of this approach are yet to be experienced.
  Now we have Corona virus lockdown debit added to other long-term indebtedness, and many are expecting to be able to continue without concerns.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:28am
  - whostoblame
    
    There was a share market crash in 1987 not the GFC. 2008 saw the beginning of the GFC and we certainly didn’t borrow or even introduce quantitative easing like the current muppets at the helm.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:44am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  What will happen?
  I am hoping for a Mad Max scenario, a quicker and less painless total collapse of society:
  but what I expect will happen is that health, justice and education will suffer as far as service levels. Cost of living will be higher – gas, petrol. The poor will be hit hardest, and will be propped up with a shrinking financial base of net taxpayers. Social divisions will grow based on pandering to identity politics, and sense of outrage. Those that believe ‘equality’ is a human right and the natural order of things will continue to agitate. The polar ice caps will keep being predicted as being gone 10-20 years into the future. Housing will be unaffordable, and the government will find new ways to take money from my pay, or my bank account, or my transactions.
  And then spend it on stupid shit.
  And the world keeps turning.
  Eventually the sun will consume the earth, and not a moment too soon!
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:55pm
  - Badger
    
    What an odd thing to hope for.
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:28pm
alex Masterley

5 more days of sick-leave that I have to allow for. Thank you Jacinda.
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May 20, 2021 8:15am
- Frank the tank
  
  And you just know they will use it as a target not as an allowance
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:18am
  - graham
    
    Truly sad that some people treat it like that.
    
    I am an employee, and currently have 44 days sick leave accrued. I have no hesitation in taking sick leave when I genuinely need it, but why do people insist on trying to squeeze every last drop of blood out of their employers? I don’t understand that attitude.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:40am
    - Nickc2
      
      Exactly. Without a successful employer, there are no happy or successful employees. And that dear friends is what Labour Govts the world over don’t understand.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:25am
    - ldypen
      
      Careful Graham, if the lefties read what you have said they will accuse you of hate speech!
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:05am
    - Ruahine
      
      graham. Just talk to some Labour supporters. They will enlighten you on this matter. Just be prepared for envy, jealousy, greed and a bit of hate thrown in for good measure.
      
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      May 20, 2021 2:20pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ah, but Productivity will increase…
    
    Wood said the bill was about fairness and increasing productivity in the workplace.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/442938/bill-to-increase-sick-leave-from-five-days-to-10-days-passes
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:45am
    - alex Masterley
      
      If Minister Wood believes that claptrap then I have a bridge I can sell him.
      
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      May 20, 2021 8:49am
    - I remember when
      
      Ten days sick leave.
      Except that there is no mention of how much of it is for actual sickness.
      Should go well with the stay home if you don’t feel 100% – it may be infectious.
      If everyone was honest it would not be a problem.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:04am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Bill is a sop to the unions for their support. That same generosity leads to runaway wage/price inflation. Super-spender Poohbah with his fingers in the Reserve Bank till is aiding that too. The more money printed, adds to the money supply and further pushes up prices.
      These people don’t run on guidance but feelings and belief in their own self worth providing the way.
      Its the people at the supermarket pay the price. Also the house prices are fed by inflation.
      A wedding is not going to take the people’s minds off the govt’s inability to manage. Circuses don’t feed empty tummies.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:10am
    - zulumonster
      
      If doubling it to 10 days is going to increase productivity why didn’t they be bold and go for 30 days? We would lead the world in productivity in no time …
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:58am
    - Humble Capitalist
      
      Said the man who has never run a factory like I do where sick leave is mainly treated as annual leave and used to the last day every year
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:26am
    - Frank the tank
      
      “Wood said the bill was about fairness and increasing productivity in the workplace”.
      
      How – by making the dumb fools that are present work faster and harder?
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:27am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Keep a spreadsheet for twelve months and, to confirm that results are no anomalies, do it for a second year for confirmation.
    
    I can guarantee that there will be a lot of ten’s as there are fives now.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:50am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Small businesses voted Labour as the best economic manager than National. So suck it in Alex bro.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:50am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Have to wonder about these surveys and polls.
    If small businesses said that, is it like how must National supporters apparent LIKE the idea of a separate Maori health authority; according to Tova?
    Or the RNZ announcement that there is “overwhelming support /92%” for a policy, when the poll only mailed surveys out to people on the Maori electoral roll, and got something like a 10% response rate even from that sample base.
    This is even worse than poor methodology, and surely these scoundrels know it!
    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    Enemedia.
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:03pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Worse still Alex; it’s five days per staff member of lost productivity.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:07am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Yes and no.
    All our firm can and do work remotely so if they are sick, flu, a cold or similar they can all put their oneses on and work away on their bed, couch or where ever they are.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:47am
    - Flossie
      
      That’s nice for your firm alex. However I’m sure you are aware there are many many jobs that require the employee to be physically present in the workplace.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:22am
- MCos
  
  In Thailand the statutory sick leave entitlement when I was there was 30 days.
  I worked in several offices.
  The problem wasn’t lazy buggers taking excessive sick days. It was lazy buggers arriving late, messing round on social media, disappearing to have a smoke.
  A lot of that came down to motivation. They were either out of their depth or not given enough responsibility a lot of the time.
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:37am
Philview

I read the ODT editorial today slamming Judith Collins. It is really disturbing where we are at as a country. The media make very little attempt to report the actual facts of a matter on Labour’s separatist policy programme but then try and discredit the Leader of the Opposition for doing her job.
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May 20, 2021 8:16am
- Simon
  
  Otago eh? The indigenous people of Otago were early British settlers.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:37am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Scots, thank you.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:50am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Reminds me of the old adage that when Andy Murray got beaten, he was British. When he started winning, he was a Scot.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:04pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    They will vote even for a cardboard cut out if the word “Labour” is written on it.
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:51am
    - sooty
      
      They have proved that in the past!
      Is it something in the water?
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:03am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      More shame on them for shortsightedness and falling for the wedding bells.
      Remember the mess Muldoon had to fix up–started by the ’72 Labour Gobblement? It’s coming again.
      Cinders, Robbo and others will get their comeuppance.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:16am
    - alex Masterley
      
      That definitely happend in the Mt Albert electorate.
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:48am
- Nickc2
  
  That’s what we’re up against Phil. Our universities are turning them out in their droves. And then there are the dyed-in-the-wool semi-retired Trade Union aligned Communists masquerading as Journos still stirring shit to achieve a belief.
  No doubt they are White, so what will their role be after the Great Reset Maori Take-over?
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:44am
  - Apropos of the Wet Snow
    
    My sense of schadenfreude is anticipating the day when they all realise what diversity means for their employment status.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:21am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes. The Great Maori Reset is coming.
      Come on Judith, push this line.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:58am
      - Ruawai
        
        The reset is already here, we were talking to a contractor this morning who has been told by councils that to get the contracts they need to employ more Maori staff.
        
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        May 20, 2021 1:36pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Ruawai@1:36PM
        This is something I would love to raise with my local MP but he’s a Labour Pary Maori so he sure as shit ain’t going to be interested in a meaningful conversation with me.
        
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        May 20, 2021 2:24pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Did the ODT or any other MSM consider what that poll asked about Labour separatist policy?
  
  Fortunately, Michael Bassett has…
  https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/the-newshub-reid-political-poll
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:48am
- Apropos of the Wet Snow
  
  That is exactly what I thought when I saw a featured article online about who would design her wedding dress! Reality can only be kept at bay for a finite period, and people are not going to be happy when it inevitably bursts into their living rooms.
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:20am
- Badger
  
  And the new cartoonist is getting irritating. It’s got me wondering whether Garrick Tremain was set up for a fall.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:00pm
Paulus

5 more days holiday – thanks Cindy.
Cough cough – without a Doctors note
Conned again.
Why should I ever vote National again when I get everything I need,
400,000 people saw that at the last election – principally women I understand from the experts who moved there vote and will never go back.
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May 20, 2021 8:19am
- JackRabbit
  
  And while that extra five days sick leave gets paid by employers, ultimately by employees pay for it several times over, through inflation which is just another tax. Higher prices, higher tax brackets, higher interest rates, less likely to get a promotion or pay increase if five days are treated as a holiday.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:41am
  - artemisia
    
    Large corporates I worked for – they actually had 10 days sick leave – were acutely aware of who took what sick and other non-annual leave. Stress leave was watched closely due to the risk to the company. And made sure managers were also acutely aware, which they were anyway of course.
    
    Time to time there was a restructure.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:07am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Yup. The companies just raise prices and since every company in the country does the same the companies don’t get hurt.
    
    The exporters compete globally and can’t do the same so they get hurt. Fewer import dollars means a lower standard of living for everyone.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:43am
- I remember when
  
  The great female ‘Cindy’ vote. Seldom mentioned by the media as it would prevent them being able to lambast National.
  Perhaps we should have separate Male and Female seats. It might be more difficult now with people being able to change their sex.
  A vote for diversity.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:52am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Perhaps we should have separate Male and Female seats.
    
    What, in the beehive or toilet? At times, what comes out is just as offensive.
    
    https://tinyurl.com/4r887wjw
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:13am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yup, the women ain’t comin back to National! They love Cindy and they are having tea parties to discuss what to wear for Cindy’s wedding.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Disturbing news SCS…
    
    I had the Lovely Ladies around for drinkies, nibbles and ~~gossip~~ literary conversation, last night.
    
    Not a mention of the Dear PM and our Clarke.
    
    and with most of us drifting into our declining years, none of us yet jabbed.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:05am
    - sooty
      
      What, and here’s you living on the sidelines of NZ’s event of the year and there’s no interest?
      So you and your friends won’t be lining the sides of the stream as cindy glides past in the waka going to her wedding?
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:39am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The women have already turned. Cindy has ruined Labour. The more she plays media chick the quicker she falls.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:18am
  - Happychappy
    
    Do you think most of them woman might have been a bit envious of the Woman that the sexual deviate out of Jacinda’s office that was sexually assualted. Well it seems our Prime Minister thought it was alright when she swept it under the carpet.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:13am
    - Paulus
      
      I suspect that many of her office woman would wish they could be molested.
      They are possibly so ugly that it would be a dream – but love Cindy.
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:35pm
Flossie

Yesterday I did an online quiz, and one question truly bugged me…
Which of these is William Shakespeare in Maori. The options here are not my issue which is simply that the author’s name is William Shakespeare whatever language you speak. Why would it ever need to be translated?
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May 20, 2021 8:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Fili Sahagapea
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:31am
- graham
  
  I bet if you turned that around, for example:
  
  “Which of these is Te Rauparaha in English?”
  
  there would be one hell of an outcry.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:44am
  - Swifty
    
    Good point.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:00am
  - mandk
    
    Why?
    
    It only translates to The Pillager.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:55am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Te Bill not to be confused with te old bill who many maori will be familiar with . . .
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:52am
- Than
  
  This is something that has annoyed me since I returned to NZ a few weeks ago – the obnoxious inclusion of Maori words and phrases in everything. Sometimes to the extent that I have difficulty understanding text allegedly written in my first language.
  
  If you’re writing a text in Maori, you should use the Maori words. If you’re writing a text in English, you should use the English words. This is not rocket science. Using a hodge-podge mix of multiple languages just results in gibberish.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:59am
  - Nickc2
    
    Than, this deserves more up-ticks.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:12am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Totally agree – it leads to the bastardisation of both languages.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:49am
  - Sacha
    
    I’m finding place names totally confusing. I don’t know where to go . . . . .
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:34am
  - doggone7
    
    I get a sense of déjà vu seeing this. A friend and I were out on the patio last having a tête-à-tête with our cappuccinos last week. I made the faux pas of dropping in the expression ‘kapai.’
    Well, she went real diva at that.
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:38am
    - Than
      
      All of which is in English (except for kapai).
      
      Sure, many of those words have their origin in other languages. But if you looked in a dictionary of the English-language they’d be in there.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:53am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Many Maori words can be found in English dictionaries too.
        
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        May 20, 2021 1:46pm
      - Than
        
        Not outside of New Zealand they can’t. So why are we choosing to deliberately linguistically isolate ourselves from the rest of the English speaking world?
        
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        May 20, 2021 3:20pm
  - KiWombat
    
    Couldn’t agree more, Than.
    
    A few weeks back I received an email, the first few lines of which were in Maori. I deleted it as I could not read it. Some days later I was asked whether I had received the email, and said no – so the same email arrived in my inbox again.
    
    I replied to sender that I could not understand the email, and could she please translate it. Still waiting !
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:39am
  - cmm
    
    What is even worse is the whining that borrowed words are not being pronounced in the Maori way (putting aside whether there is really One True Maori way of saying words).
    
    Once a word has been borrowed into a language it becomes a word in the borrowing language and it is up to the borrowing language how they use the word.
    
    When we say Paris in English we say “parris”, we don’t say “pahree”.
    
    It is now being used in English and is no longer up to the French to tell us how to say it.
    
    The same basic principle goes for all word borrowing. It is always that way. Word forms need to change to fit with the grammar and sounds available in the new language.
    
    If an English person says “pahree” when speaking English then they are being an affected wanker. Same for those insisting on “proper” Maori pronunciation when used in English sentences.
    
    If the rules have changed, then no more bro – say brother. No more Pirihimana – say policeman (or the original Latin/whatever).
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:16am
  - Ruawai
    
    Don’t listen to RNZ then, they are talking in 50/50 Maori/English sentences now.
    
    5 1
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    May 20, 2021 1:40pm
  - Unity
    
    We now have Pidgin English. It’s totally irritating but I’ve developed an automatic filter that screens the annoying words out so I just get one language instead of a mixture of two.
    
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    May 20, 2021 3:14pm
  - Durden
    
    I have stated calling this Manglish. The word describes mangled English or Maori English — take your pick.
    
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    May 20, 2021 3:59pm
ABS4EVA

https://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/chinese-soldiers-to-train-in-northern-australia/news-story/9b2ef3f1432b57138359f02dc6f6965d

2014 CCP training in the Northern Territory Seriously Role out the red carpet

It is a Harsh Environment you need to know
how to operate there.

Now they Do.

Abbott what a Statesman
like Rudd.
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May 20, 2021 8:23am
- tf78
  
  ABS4EVA – that was written in 2014.
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:07am
ABS4EVA

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6226521688001

Keswick Island is a Future Military and NAVAL Base.
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May 20, 2021 8:25am
Maggie Pie

JIHADI’S IN OUR MIDST 🙁

‘Justice Sally Fitzgerald’ is presiding over this trial.
A really lovely lady by all accounts. According to her bio, Sal’s legal background was specializing in commercial dispute resolution and tax litigation apparently. Looks like a really understanding sort of person to me. Just saying.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/125159254/man-repeatedly-accessed-isis-terror-material-before-buying-knife-crown-says
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May 20, 2021 8:29am
- Jack5
  
  The young Muslim lad who, before the mosques massacres, planned a car and knife massacre in Christchurch got a non-custodial, supervised open sentence that led to him having golf lessons.
  
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  May 20, 2021 1:24pm
Than

Oh, the irony… part of the latest piece of environmental wishful thinking is using naturally occuring reservoirs to store hydrogen.

First issue here, hydrogen is a lot harder to store than the oil/natural gas that these reservoirs were previously used for. I’m sure it would work to an extent, but some leakage will be inevitable.

But the main thing that made me laugh is considering how such reservoirs are discovered. Gee, that would be through oil and gas exploration. So exactly what our substanceless Prime Minister banned as a piece of empty virtue-signaling early in her term.
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May 20, 2021 8:30am
- JackRabbit
  
  It would be inefficiencies on top of inefficiencies on top of inefficiencies. Unless of course scientists find a way to release hydrogen and oxygen from water with an over unity gain (free energy). In which case long term storage becomes irrelevant anyway. And then they would have to empty the caverns of natural gas to store the hydrogen.
  
  The definition of free energy is any power generation systems that requires a power input less that what it produces. We already have free energy, thanks to Nikola Tesla – hydroelectricity – by hooking into the wheel work of nature. The sun provides the energy to vapourise the seas to create clouds that produce rain that results in rivers that turn the turbines. You can’t get simpler than that. But then again even simple logic is lost on left wing idiots, which is why they have overlooked building more dams or even small hydro in rivers.
  
  And cut off their nose to spite their face by banning oil and gas exploration. I’m all for modern futuristic clean ways of generating power, but maintaining a free market and competition is the way to get there, not meddling.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:04am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The discovery of using hydrogen directly in water molecules is actively under commercial development.
    There is argument about the physics GUT-CP but the realities speak of changes to the former order QM.
    The parties involved are all serious scientists. You can see demo’s here:
    https://brilliantlightpower.com
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:32am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Regardless of discovery, abundant energy will always be about hooking into the wheelwork of nature or the wheelwork of the cosmos.
      
      The key with all these discoveries is having a working model capable of lighting up a house or cooking a roast dinner, and being able to explain how it works in layman’s terms. Until then they are just theories. Not unlike one billion trees or 100,000 homes. It is interesting to note that Tesla built working models of all the types of AC motors and generators in use today, including poly-phase devices, in just 3 months.
      
      It will be interesting to see how brilliantpower turns out. Along with many others.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:23am
      - Paulus
        
        Britain has just announced some new small nuclear power stations to be built – each about a footy field in size and 1/7th of a full station and energy for one million houses.
        First will be be active by 2030.
        Yes, real.
        
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        May 20, 2021 1:42pm
    - cmm
      
      There’s a sucker born every minute.
      
      Thinking you can use the hydrogen in water is ridiculous. It is like saying you can use the carbon in CO2.
      
      Water is H2O. Hydrogen bonded with the oxygen. Splitting the hydrogen from the oxygen needs a massive amount of energy. This can be done chemically (eg. react with something that causes the oxygen to grab onto the reactant – thus liberating the hydrogen) or with electrolysis (where the hydrogen ions are fed electrons to make them stand alone).
      
      Both require enormous energy.
      
      When you then burn/react the hydrogen it then gives back some energy but less than required to make it.
      
      Serious scientists my arse. They’ve seen that there is a massive amount of funding floating around in the the US green economy stimulus spending and are eager to get their snouts in the trough.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:33am
      - Nickc2
        
        Well said cmm.
        
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        May 20, 2021 10:53am
      - crikey
        
        Agree cmm. There’s a serious lack of understanding of some pretty basic chemistry going on here.
        
        Those of you who didn’t study science or didn’t pay attention, please and find something else to expound on.
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:18pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        They have been working at this for many years and enhanced the understanding of physics. Catalysts can do unexpected things. Gallium is allowing state changes in molecular bonded hydrogen with consequent energy release. That’s surely better than using large nuclear reactors or playing with tokamaks.
        
        A new form of hydrogen has apparently appeared and the claim is that it is verifiable by spectroscopic analysis where unique lines show for the hydrino state.
        My explanation may be imperfect but I believe it to be reasonable.
        
        Be hopeful. I smell science here not a scam. Not everything is understood on first encounter.
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:37pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        hydrogen from PV is widely predicted to cost less than $1.5/kg by 2030 based on current trends and known technology. That is about $0.075/kWh when reconverted to electricity using commercially available fuel cells (which are well developed and understood technology now). Note that PV electricity is already <$0.02/kWh in sunny countries. That is about the same as wholesale electricity price in NZ for last 2 years.
        
        If you convert your country to mostly PV power you only need a small proportion of the PV power converted to hydrogen for use in winter and bad weather so your overall cost of electricity averages out lower than our current cost.
        
        I'm a fan of nuclear, and don't believe that climate change is a significant problem, but it's pretty clear that fully renewably produced hydrogen will be an economic long term solution to power in out world within a decade – along with EV's it soon start to replace most fossil fuels due to lower cost.
        
        Note that such cheap hydrogen can also be used to make synthetic hydrocarbons for $100/barrel, not much more than current prices, and a price that we have seen several times in the past without too much issue.
        
        PV production is going to boom.
        
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        May 20, 2021 3:14pm
  - tf78
    
    Jack – speaking of such things, I was wondering if electric vehicles are so much heavier than petrol/diesel vehicles, would multi-story car parks be able to carry their weight.
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:13am
    - alloytoo
      
      A bigger worry is if one (just one) caught fire. The heat could cause the concrete to shatter and deform (if not outright melt) the reinforcing bars.
      
      There’s no way of extinguishing the blaze except through submersion.
      
      If more than one caught fire…….
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:36pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Yes, there was a case recently in the US/UK where an EV caught fire whilst parked with no one in attendance and the Fire Dept had had no training in how to deal with the fire. Have our Firies been trained for such an event?
        I believe it’s not simply a matter of pouring water on the problem because there’s a lot of dangerous substances which give off toxic gasses when subjected to heat and some that become more fire intense when water is applied.
        
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        May 20, 2021 2:12pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      The difference is not huge. A Tesla P100 is similar in weight to an Audi A7 3.0 TDI Quattro S 5 Door, and both are lighter than a top of the line Dodge Ram. And there are dozens of cars heavier than electric cars.
      
      We are so lucky that most buildings are over designed for maximum weights and then some.
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:40pm
- Durden
  
  Uncomfortable truths.
  
  Hydrogen is expensive. It is competitive only if carbon credit price is increased artificially by government mandates. That is why we are most likely to export Hydrogen to Japan rather than using it in NZ. Because of Japan’s limited renewable resources for generating electricity the carbon price in that country will rise first and fast. And hence it is a good market.
  
  Contact Energy recently admitted this during a Q&A after a presentation.
  
  http://business.scoop.co.nz/2019/02/01/hydrogens-nz-role-may-be-limited-concept/
  “Concept estimated that, by 2040, New Zealand could ship renewable hydrogen to Japan at a cost of about $44 a gigajoule, compared with a liquefied natural gas price of $14/GJ. That would require a carbon price of $550 a tonne to be cost competitive.”
  
  “For its study Concept calculated the cost of making hydrogen through electrolysis at $8.91/kg. That cost, which includes tank storage, is equivalent to $63/GJ or 23 cents per kilowatt-hour. The wholesale cost of gas is about $6/GJ and 7.5c/kWh for electricity.
  
  Using existing steam methane reforming from gas, hydrogen would cost $2.70/kg, or $19/GJ, but would need a carbon price of $100 a tonne.”
  
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  May 20, 2021 4:16pm
info@cruzpro.com

As a US citizen I received this email today from medicare.gov:

“Haven’t gotten your COVID-19 vaccine yet? Now’s your chance! Find a COVID-19 vaccine provider near you quickly and easily with the redesigned Vaccines.gov website.

COVID-19 vaccines are the best way to protect yourself and your loved ones from COVID-19 — and an important tool to help us get back to normal. And remember, the vaccine is available at no cost to you at doctor’s offices, clinics, hospitals and retail pharmacies across the country.”

Seems that they make it pretty simple to get the vaccine in the USA.
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May 20, 2021 8:39am
- Flossie
  
  My 14 year old grandson in Colorado has had his vaccination, as of course have his parents. There’s talk now that it won’t be very long before the next one, an eleven year old, will also be eligible.
  Meanwhile back here their grandparents have no idea when to expect to get theirs!
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:27am
  - MCos
    
    There’s two points to consider.
    Colorado, which has a population slightly higher than NZ still has upwards of 600 new cases a day so getting a vaccine is more compelling than here.
    I just rang and made an appointment for my wife & I. Maybe being in South Auckland means I can do that.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:56am
    - Nickc2
      
      You are lucky. Yesterday, I happened to be passing my local vaccination place and dropped in on the off chance I could get a jab as the place was empty of patients. I was informed that I must phone and make an appointment even though there was no one in the queue and it was less than 30mins from last call. Officious little bastard he was. Trouble is, I think he will remember me next time I’m there.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:35am
      - notreadyet
        
        Could be that as new vaccine stocks not arriving untill July that they trying to look like they running a program but not actually doing it by whatever means to stretch out the current stock
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:30pm
    - doggone7
      
      More compelling? That’s understandable.
      
      Colorado 534,564 cases and 6,592 deaths.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:43am
  - calendar girl
    
    That’s because Ms Ardern’s Government took an intolerably long time committing adequate orders abroad for supplies of relevant vaccines.
    
    In-actions usually have consequences.
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:36pm
- Nickc2
  
  That’s how they get through so many injections over a very short time frame. Our f-wits like to keep the injecting to themselves. I can go to my local doctor and get a flu jab, but not a Covid-19 jab. Why?
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:57am
  - rockape
    
    Be a use the Government won’t fund the extra cost to your GP. Phoned mine told to contact the DHB, phoned the DHB to be told to contact my GP.
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:28pm
    - Nickc2
      
      And we pay the wages of these incompetent bastards!
      
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      May 20, 2021 2:19pm
I remember when

Americans ‘boo’ Biden for his ‘silence over the Israel/Gaza conflict.
Booed for failing to say ‘boo’.
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May 20, 2021 8:43am
YesMinister

Can someone tell me what the point of laws is, when incumbent governments just rush through changes without consultation whenever they decide to?

I’m tired of Labour fucking up and acting illegally, and then turning around and pushing through a law under urgency. It makes a mockery of having laws anyway. The lockdowns were illegal, the vaccine approval was illegal, well who cares, no penalties, just change the laws.

They did the same with calling tax deductions on investment properties a “loophole” which is absolute garbage, and changing the law.

Why should any of us buy into these cereal box post it note fly by night laws? At this point, it’s just a small cabal of liberal interests dictating to us at random. We have no rights, we own nothing except that which they allow us to currently pretend to own, and they’re making that ever clearer by constantly fucking with the rules instead of playing in the same sandbox the rest of us have to.
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May 20, 2021 8:43am
- Weetbix3ways
  
  Exactly – it is a dictatorship disguised as democracy. And since they have bought the media, almost everyone believes it is wonderful ‘progress’. Of course, progress is only good if you are going in the right direction – we are heading for a cliff.
  
  Strange isn’t it, that freedom and representative government is gradually abolished to thunderous applause…
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:28am
- Paulus
  
  Why not 53% of the voters voted for her.
  I still cannot find one of them who will to admit it.
  
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  May 20, 2021 1:45pm
  - Batman
    
    Hahah that probably tells us more about you than anything else.
    
    Pro tip: don’t open the conservation by calling her a name then saying she’s a communist, it puts off the other person.
    
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    May 20, 2021 3:04pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

https://rairfoundation.com/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-is-creating-variants/

This could be HUGE!
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May 20, 2021 8:48am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Utter fake news.
  
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  May 20, 2021 8:57am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Did you read it or just look at the pictures?
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:10am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Neither Maggie Pie. Just posted “Fake News”.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:52am
- Weetbix3ways
  
  Much the same process as over-use of antibiotics creates antibiotic-resistance.
  Nature abhors a vacuum. If one strain is removed, something else will fill the space. If you are lucky, it will be something more harmless…
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:33am
- oldfella
  
  Quick, Maggie, check with the Pink Haired Lady to see if our NZer of the Year thinks the Nobel Prize winner is wrong.
  I’ll go with whatever Pinky says. /
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:53pm
G152

So Waikato Hospital Board prove they cant manage squat.
Computer system hacked and no backup systems in place.
Back to pen and paper.
Any guesses as to how many patients are affected?
How many staff are over over worked manually running systems?
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May 20, 2021 8:56am
- artemisia
  
  No backup systems? Is that true? Seems unlikely. But interesting to know when the backup system (if any) was last stress tested.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:11am
Swifty

The lawyer for fraud and theft victims want NZ families to be taxed more to compensate victims for their losses:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/jailed-financial-adviser-barry-klooghs-wife-breaks-silence/F7Q3MSWWN4P7JA4O5LZOJZ3KJI/

“Lawyer Geoff Mirkin, who is part of a professional group which has advised Kloogh’s victims at no charge, said the Government had failed to put proper safeguards in place to protect investors, despite having claimed it was going to do so in several discussion documents concerning law reform of the financial advice sector.

“The Government has let down this group of people.

“The Government should write out a cheque.””

Is this really the track we wish to go down in New Zealand?

Don’t get me wrong, Barry Kloogh has been found guilty of utter bastardry. He richly deserves a long spell in the big house for his appalling deeds and for the extensive damage he has caused to many lives. How older people will cope after losing huge proportions of their retirement nest-eggs, and with little or no ability to re-make that dough, is beyond me.

But are we really saying that NZ families, who has nothing to do with the incident, are now liable for compensating losses? And where will this extend to – in future will the NZ taxpayer become liable for compensating all victims of crime or theft?

How is that fair to them?

The lawyer says “We are two years down the track.

“We still don’t know whether any third parties are liable for regulatory breaches, and so who then takes responsibility?

“It has to be the Government.” ”

I really wish people would stop saying ‘The Government’ when who they really mean is the NZ taxpayer. NZ families. Because that is who will end up paying for Kloogh’s misdeeds if this is acted upon by Labour.

Saying ‘The Government’ is dishonest and designed to mislead in my opinion.
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May 20, 2021 8:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  If the govt is to provide for all how can we ever separate people in grades for the purpose.
  
  (Risk belongs to the lender.)
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:37am
- Apropos of the Wet Snow
  
  They all freely risked their money, and they lost it. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. They should serve as a pertinent lesson to everyone else thinking about investing money. I doubt they paid more tax than was necessary on any of the gains they may have realised, so it shouldn’t work the other way in reverse either.
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:32am
Swifty

Rodney Hide continues to write very well, I must say:

“I respect your right to your religious views but in return you must respect my right to mine.

Your religious views are a private matter between you and your God/s. They are not a matter for the workplace.

New Zealand also enjoys religious tolerance by keeping the state and church separate. The government and its organisations don’t profess a religious view.

That separation has enabled people of different faiths to live and work together without the violence and upheaval that bedevilled the world historically and which sadly still blights much of the planet. We don’t live in a theocracy.

I respectfully ask that your Tāne Mahuta be removed. That’s for you and your fellow believers in your private time. You can worship him or anyone you like, and build whatever shrine meets your fancy, but such worship and such shrines have no place in the workplace and certainty no place on a state agency.”

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/reserve-bank-theocracy
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May 20, 2021 9:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I wonder if he ever spoke out against prayers in parliament.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Christian prayer is acceptable.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:39am
    - Swifty
      
      I think you’re missing the point there Kev……
      
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      May 20, 2021 9:51am
    - fernglas
      
      Only to Christians. To the rest of us, it is as irrelevant as reading the entrails of chickens.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:03am
      - Swifty
        
        I find chicken entrail reading more reliable – the truth be told.
        
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        May 20, 2021 10:15am
  - Swifty
    
    Good question.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:52am
  - Ehlana
    
    miken, there’s a difference between the Members of Parliament (who determine their own workplaces practices) and employees of state entities, who do not.
    The prayer in Parliament reflects an historic reality – that most of the members confessed Christian faith. But even when the majority of state employees probably were also Christian, Christian prayer was not a part of the work day, nor Christian icons part of the decor in government departments. So why should religious practice or icons be introduced now?
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:35pm
- JackRabbit
  
  It would appear that Tāne Mahuta, a giant Kauri three, God of the Forest, has escaped the forest and taken up residence in the Reserve Bank. It is also interesting to note that Tāne Mahuta is between 1200 and 2500 years old, and so predates the official arrival of the (Tahitian) Maori. Perhaps instead, Tāne belongs to the Moriori, Waitaha, or Nga Puhi or other cultures that inhabited NZ long before the arrival of the (Tahitian) Maori.
  
  If there was even the slightest chance that Tāne, the spirit after which Tānee Mahuta was named, actually existed, it is cleared that Tāne has taken pity on the Reserve Bank, and must solemnly believe that its management has got lost in the woods and “cannot see the forest for the trees”.
  
  No doubt Tāne has also done a lot of hand wringing over our current socialist government.
  
  Maori legend also has it that Tāne is also God of the birds, so maybe annoyed with the disrespect antics of the Mallard in the Beehive. Maori legend also has it that Tāne married his own daughter, Hine-tītama, without her knowing Tāne is her father. He sires children with her, and when Hine-tītama discovers that Tāne is her father, she fled to the underworld (hell).
  
  Apart from the fact that religion has no place in the workplace, is it really acceptable the Reserve Bank or anyone for that matter, worship a deity guilty of incest and abuse? What was un-Christian Hawkesby thinking?
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:05am
  - Paulus
    
    If we accept the belief that Tane committed incest with his daughter from which she sired children might well give understanding to some medical outturns generations later – called consanguinity which may be understood in later generations.
    It was seen in years gone back within the UK Royal Family in the early Georges which is why overseas dilution took place but possibly never really goes away.
    Mental Health today is apparent in some immigrant and refugee families currently in the UK.
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:53pm
Gravelroad

This a.m. on Newstalkzb there was a little hit job on Wellington Mayor, Andy Foster.
I don’t know Mr Foster personally or whether he is a capable Mayor and community governance leader or not.
But, on the “news” (8am) I was told that: shock, horror, Foster had attended only 4 out of 7 Wellington Airport board meetings.
On the occasions he had not attended, he had sent another Council rep in his place- which could be good experience going forward for him/her in any case.
Is this really national news?
For some relevant context, I would have been interested to hear how many Airport board meetings that say, the last two or three Mayors had attended.
But I guess that as the previous two were left wing socialists they probably went to all of them as:
A. They had nothing else to do – and
B. They were troughers.
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May 20, 2021 9:09am
RockyJ

“When Jacinda Ardern read 1984 she saw it as inspiration rather than a warning”
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May 20, 2021 9:14am
- JackRabbit
  
  I doubt that she read it (in full). By observation she appears incapable of following a train of thought or logic structure for more that a few seconds.
  
  If she had read it in full and considered it circumspectly, she would never have entered politics, at least not as an antagonist, or activist.
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:12am
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like our school teachers will need to do some homework this summer….

as they catch up on a few basics of NZ History..such as:
.What were the Maori doing between 1300 and 1800?
. Were there Women in NZ before the 21st Century?
. What did pioneer folk use before EFT POS?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/442935/draft-history-curriculum-misses-600-years-of-aotearoa-new-zealand-s-past
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May 20, 2021 9:21am
- crikey
  
  I wonder how much of this Maori-centric history curriculum will be on the appalling treatment of Moriori on Chatham Island. This is well-documented and referred to in the official apology by the government to the Moriori descendants.
  
  Any advances on none, no reference?
  
  Transcript of Crown apology to Moriori:
  http://shapingeducation.govt.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Transcript-of-the-Crown-apology-to-Moriori.pdf
  
  If you read it, note that Maori are not explicitly mentioned, but we do know what underlies the words.
  
  “ The Crown was aware in 1842, when it assumed responsibility for the Chatham Islands, that Moriori were enslaved and many had died at the hands of their captors.” ‘Captors’=Maori, ‘died at the hands of’ includes cannabilism. We wouldn’t want that discussed and taught would we.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:47am
  - Jack5
    
    The great Woke rewrite.
    
    Here’s the guts of the new history that will be forced on our children:
    
    The new curriculum will be taught to all children from Years 0-10 from next year and is centred on three “big ideas” – Maori history, the impact of colonisation, and the exercise of power.
    
    The expert panel said it strongly supported the intent of the draft, including placing Maori history at its centre.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/442949/nz-history-in-schools-could-be-confrontational-expert-panel-says
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:23am
    - Jack5
      
      I first posted this very late last night (really too late) in General Debate on the composition of the New Zealand Royal Society’s panel that reviewed the new history curriculum. I hope I’m permitted to repost it today …
      
      Britain’s great Royal Society was inspired by Sir Francis Bacon. Its had a stunning array of members over the centuries: Darwin, Newton, Humphry Davy, Babbage, Herschel, Franklin, Max Planck – to name a very few.
      
      Unlike the hard-science focus of the Royal Society, The NZ version seems more oriented to humanities – the soft sciences such as sociology, and to history.
      
      The three members of the NZ Royal Society who appraised the new NZ history curriculum as mentioned by Milky (11.07 post) are:
      
      – Retired professor Atholl Anderson, a former professor of archaeology at the Australian National University. Anderson has Stewart Island Ngai Tahu forbears, and did research for Ngai Tahu’s treaty claim.
      
      – Margaret Tennant, formerly a professor of history at Massey University. Her publications have been mainly in women’s history and the history of social policy.
      
      – Tony Ballantyne, of Otago University, a historian of the British Empire. The University notes his current interest focuses on the development of colonial knowledge in southern New Zealand.
      
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      May 20, 2021 10:32am
      - Pharmachick
        
        To be fair, you’re hardly going to have a physicist reviewing and commenting in an “expert” manner on a history curriculum.
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:12pm
      - Jack5
        
        The Royal Society of New Zealand administers the Marsden Fund, which the Government funds. It was established in 1994 to fund “excellence in fundamental research in New Zealand”.
        
        Marsden Fund grants for 2020 included $1.77 million to the Auckland University Faculty of Arts for four projects including this:
        
        Distinguished Professor Dame Anne Salmond, Dr Dan Hikuroa (Te Wananga o Waipapa) and Dr Billie Lythberg (Business School) have been awarded $870,000 for Let the River Speak, a project which drew inspiration from the 2017 Te Awa Tupua (Whanganui River) Act, in which Aotearoa New Zealand became the first nation-state to recognise the river as a legal person.
        
        Based on a pilot study of rivers across New Zealand, including the Waimata River in Gisborne, Dr Hikuroa and Professor Salmond say the project is looking for new ways to give rivers a voice and to revitalise them as living communities of landscapes, plants, animals and people.
        
        “It’s designed to foster globally innovative exchanges across different disciplines and ways of thinking, iwi, local and central government, farmers, foresters, riverside residents, businesses and those who paddle, row, fish and swim in the river,” they say.
        
        It’s outcome will be a range of practical interventions aimed at restoring river communities to a state of ora – prosperity, health and wellbeing.
        
        https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2020/11/10/marsden-funding-for-arts.html
        
        The sort of stuff that will keep New Zealand from slipping into the Third World?
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:55pm
  - Yvette
    
    The Māori Party co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer has pulled no punches in her maiden speech, describing early New Zealand governments as “monsters, murderers and rapists”.
    Ngarewa-Packer accused former MPs of being responsible for the murder and rape of women and children, the imprisonment of Māori without trial and the confiscation of their land.
    
    “I stand here as a descendant of a people who survived a Holocaust, a genocide, sponsored by this House and members of Parliament whose portraits still hang from the walls. Members of Parliament who sought our extermination and created legislation to achieve it.” – Hansard
    
    In 1835 two Māori groups, Ngāti Tama and Ngāti Mutunga, invaded the Chatham Islands. They had left northern Taranaki due to warfare, and were seeking somewhere else to live. Moriori decided to greet them peacefully, but the Māori killed more than 200 Moriori and enslaved the rest
    
    Another source – Moriori chose to obey their law and refused to fight back. In less than thirty years, 90 percent of the population – or 1561 people – were dead and the survivors were kept in slavery until they were freed in 1863.
    
    Note: neither invading iwi is mentioned in the Transcript-of-the-Crown-apology-to-Moriori, and neither have apologised, and in fact Ngāti Mutunga o Wharekauri is trying to block a planned transfer of 12,000 hectares of Department of Conservation (DoC) land back to Moriori, saying they have no right to have it exclusively …
    The iwi which invaded their home from Taranaki in 1835 say it can’t happen, because Moriori have been “conquered and subjugated”. [1]
    
    By the usual definition of genocide, surely Ngāti Tama and Ngāti Mutunga did more to commit genocide of the ethnic group, Moriori – reduce their numbers to near zero, or extinction – than did colonial factions commit actual genocide in the case of ancestors of Debbie Ngarewa-Packer or Rawiri Waititi.
    
    [1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/12/taranaki-iwi-fights-to-keep-moriori-land-it-invaded.html
    
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    May 20, 2021 10:47am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Debbie Ngarewa- Packer of Maori and Irish descent says,
      
      “Mum’s parents had come over from Ireland and they farmed at Paeroa as well as doing some goldmining up that way. “.
      
      “Mum, who’s an extremely intelligent woman, always had an affinity for Māori, and must’ve taken a shine to Dad who, so we understand, made a big impression on her as dancer — not that us kids ever saw much evidence of those dancing skills.”
      
      “She pushed bilingual teaching way before its time. She rejected the stereotypical labels that were put on our community and kids. And she taught us to commit to a kaupapa bigger than ourselves.”
      
      “So we learned to be activists and to take pressure at a very young age. She once sat with Eva Rickard on a long bus trip and that began a long friendship. Mum had, and still has, this capacity for embracing new ideas and enriching the community with them. ”
      
      The rhetoric in the parliamentary speech makes it sound like the history of Maori and Pakeha is one of hate. But her own family history like so many NZ stories is one of love between Maori and European Settlers. And far from suppressing the culture, she explains it was her Irish mother who rejected racial stereotypes, had a love for Maori, promoted learning Te Reo and was supportive of the culture, and encouraged her Dad into teaching.”
      
      https://e-tangata.co.nz/korero/debbie-ngarewa-packer-taking-on-the-world-from-patea/
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:44pm
  - Matt Long
    
    When will Iwi be compensated for the confiscation of their rights as slave owners and for the loss of one of their best sources of protein by the white supremacist colonialists?
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:42am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I think Matt meant that, tongue in cheek.
      But consider this;
      It is an awful long way for Ngapuhi to row from Northland to the Bay of Plenty. Much protein would have been required by the oarsmen to make such an arduous journey. Where did they source that protein?
      One book I read suggested that several of their slaves had a one way ticket on the waka.
      
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      May 20, 2021 12:23pm
      - cmm
        
        Yup, just like Scott used his ponies for both transport and food. As the supplies got used up, the ponies became surplus and became supplies themselves.
        
        From what I have read, that was also the way on the Ponamu Trail bringing pounamu from the west coast. Once you got to the watershed all the hard uphill work was done and one of the slaves would be spare. Time for a celebratory feed.
        
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        May 20, 2021 2:03pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        There’s an island in the middle of Lake Brunner on the west coast where they used to store live human ‘food’
        
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        May 20, 2021 3:20pm
Yvette

“Today is a day ~~I’m~~ we are so happy to share more of my our life with you all — ~~I am~~ we are proud to let you know that I we identify as non-binary,” Lovato announced on Twitter and in an accompanying video, adding they will “officially be changing my our pronouns to ~~they/them~~ us moving forward.”

As they say, ‘fixed it for you both”
And, if a non-binary person married, is it bigamy?
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May 20, 2021 9:29am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s getting peculiar: I know two logical lesbians lovers.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:41am
kevn

@Maggy… add, when did people begin to txt and talk at the same time?
Earlier this century, pre phone screen times.
You can see they have to look at the imagery now, have to look while walking, driving, ‘working’ or talking to you.
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May 20, 2021 9:31am
Swifty

I hate to say it but some of my fellow New Zealanders really are utter scumbags:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300312023/seventyfive-brass-plaques-stolen-from-auckland-cemetery-families-shocked

“I am so bereft of any sense of decency that I will go to a cemetery and steal the brass plaques from the graves of my fellow community member’s loved ones….oh, but if anyone comes to my house to steal my stuff I’ll f….n KILL THEM!!!!!”

Lower than whale shit.
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May 20, 2021 9:34am
- cmm
  
  I suppose there’s some bastard scrap dealer asking no questions.
  
  What else could you do with them? Flip them over and use the other side?
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:57am
  - BAM
    
    You melt them down and make ingots, so they’re unrecognisable.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye26eIsk_LA
    
    Scrap metal dealer has no idea where you’ve got the brass from.
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:59am
mikenmildagain

Eighty years since the opening of the Battle of Crete, 20 May 1941. One of the debacles so common in the early years of the war.
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May 20, 2021 9:38am
- Jack5
  
  Hmm … the battle where one of our best soldiers, Kippenberger, rallied his troops:
  
  “Stand for New Zealand! Stand every man who is a soldier! Stand for New Zealand!”
  
  Guess they Woke would revise this to “Stand for Aotearoa!”
  
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  May 20, 2021 1:32pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I guess that in a similar situation today, an officer would use whatever expression was likely to motivate the troops. Given that quite a high percentage of NZ Army soldiers are Maori, only snowflakes would object should such an exhortation be in te reo.
    Are you a snowflake, Jack?
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:51pm
    - Jack5
      
      Milky, a high proportion of the NZ Army (perhaps half of it) is now Maori.
      
      But not in World War 2, and not on Crete, where there was just the one Maori battalion.
      
      If there is a Maori version of “Stand for New Zealand!” Kippenberger’s Kiwi soldiers wouldn’t have understood it.
      
      His brigade included his former command, the 20th Battalion (in which Upham fought), the Divisional Cavalry, and various cobbled-together units including the “infantillery” – artillerymen fighting as a rifle unit.
      
      As to your question, Milky, whether I’m a snowflake: Sorry, no, I’m not Woke and will die unWoken.
      
      As you well know, Milky, snowflakes are a subset (a dominant subset) of your Woke community. ?
      
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      May 20, 2021 3:55pm
      - ABS4EVA
        
        Just so you know Jack 5
        Maori first served in Combat Roles in the
        Australian Army in WW1 some left NZ
        and fought with Australia.
        
        Because at First they were not allowed Combat roles n the NZ army that changed in Gallipoli.
        
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        May 20, 2021 10:51pm
Batman

Tim Ryan absolutely destroys the feckless, traitorous cowards in the GOP (I’m taking a leaf out of other commenters books for link captions ?)

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1395130470615031809?s=19

Tim Ryan: “Benghazi, you guys chased the former SoS all over the country, spent millions of dollars. We have people scaling the Capitol, hitting the Capitol Police with lead pipes across the head, and we can’t get bipartisanship. What else has to happen in this country…”
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May 20, 2021 9:41am
- virtualmark
  
  That’s politics …
  
  No matter how much you might like your favourite politician remember that they will lie to your face and sell you down the river for their own political gain.
  
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  May 20, 2021 9:55am
  - Batman
    
    VM, but by no means should we accept the rank hypocrisy of these people when discussing US Pols. No should we here at home.
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:12pm
- Inandout
  
  Bat, the Capitol has replaced TDS now Trump is not President. Meanwhile, the US is in a sorry state.
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:31am
  - Batman
    
    Sounds like you needed a new straw man, inandout.
    
    Unfortunately the bipartisan vote for a commission means we should hopefully find out exactly what happened on Jan 6. Which should be mighty awkward for a lot of GOP reps and folks like you who consistently downplay and deny it.
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:20am
    - Doc Holliday
      
      I’ve just down-ticked you. Let there be no confusion in the numbers for any passerby: This is the habitat of the deluded paranoid! 🙂
      
      4 7
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      May 20, 2021 11:32am
- Fletch
  
  Meanwhile, some of the people who walked in to the Capitol building on Jan 6 have been chased down by the DOJ and are in solitary confinement, despite not having being charged with a single thing. Only being let out for an hour a day for exercise and being denied access to basic hygiene etc. They are likely to be their for months – perhaps until next year. Punishment for supporting Trump.
  
  Which is why so many January 6 detainees now languish in solitary confinement conditions, some reportedly abused by prison guards, denied routine access to family members and defense attorneys. While there’s no doubt most of those behind bars awaiting delayed trials face the most serious charges related to the Capitol breach, the double standard of justice is in clear view. The same Justice Department dropping cases against Portland rioters, including those charged with assaulting federal officers, is treating January 6 defendants as hardened criminals even though most have no criminal records.
  
  Lang told his father his fellow detainees are being tortured “mentally, physically, socially, emotionally, legally, and spiritually.”
  
  The jail allows them to leave their cells for an hour a day. Religious services are not allowed; they can’t exercise and access to personal hygiene such as showers is nearly nonexistent, according to defense lawyers and relatives I’ve spoken with. The detainees, before a single moment of their trial has begun, suffer the same harsh treatment as convicted criminals incarcerated in the D.C. prison system—pandemic-justified conditions recently condemned by elected officials of both parties.
  
  https://amgreatness.com/2021/05/17/shawshank-for-january-6-detainees/
  
  At the same time, those who took part in lootings, arson, rioting in Portland are being let go in droves without being charged. Shows you the ideology of the govt…
  
  https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/05/04/most-portland-rioters-have-their-cases-dismissed-n387625
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:40am
  - Batman
    
    Wow I wouldn’t have guessed you’d be a supporter of comprehensive US prison reform but here we are! Welcome.
    
    Having said that, a website called ‘amgreatness’ using the claims of one guy, with no specifics whatsoever. Doesn’t exactly lead me to think they are terribly reliable, and most likely to be bullshit from people surprised to find that prison sucks and crimes have consequences.
    
    The first world whining is fairly spectacular.
    
    As for your Portland comment. States rights I suppose. Remember how you guys support that? And hotair.com? How very Freudian of you to link that…
    
    Enjoy your delusion bubble. I’m sorry you’re being lied to by these sources.
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:35am
    - Fletch
      
      The “guy” is Julie Kelly, and she is the only one interested enough to do some actual journalism and reporting on the subject. The mainstream media don’t care. They would if it were BLM or Antifa members being treated this way. Then you’d see an uproar and Senators like AOC would be getting in on the act. But because it is Trump supporters it doesn’t matter.
      
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      May 20, 2021 11:57am
      - Batman
        
        I was talking about the guy in the story, not the author.
        
        Yes, the only ‘journalist’ reporting this for a reason, because she’s a partisan crank.
        
        Yeah you’d probably hear from AOC and Bernie, but you wouldn’t hear from the GOP. It’s only when it affects their white supporters do things suddenly become a problem…
        
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        May 20, 2021 12:04pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh horrors! The guys who attempted to overthrow the elected government are being locked up.
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:54pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Fletch, I thought it was Antifa and BLM that stormed the Capitol????
    
    I figured you’d be rapt to see Antifa and BLM members being locked up in prison.
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:41pm
    - Batman
      
      Juliet is convinced of that. Maybe she should have a chat to Fletch?
      
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      May 20, 2021 3:26pm
Pharmachick

3-0 … one to go. Is bikkie about?
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May 20, 2021 9:44am
- plc
  
  Nat Phillips had a blinder and we are starting to see the best of Thiago
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:22pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Bring back Virgil and Jota, have a healthy Ox and Gini, use Shaqiri and Origi as impact players and hope to Dog that Mane, Mo and Bobby are firing… Make sure you give Trent everything he wants, keep Robertson happy (work rate beyond) and also keep Milner for a 1-2 yr extension [contract done this summer I think]… HELLO CHAMPIONS LEAGUE and PREMIERSHIP, and FA Cup adn (okay I’m really Istanbulling now).
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:35pm
    - calendar girl
      
      Agreed, Pharma. Impressed with how well you read the state of affairs at the top of the Premier League!
      
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      May 20, 2021 4:12pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Up top of the day’s thread I just praised your thoughtful contributions, Pharmachick.
      
      I need to clarify that this excludes your views on the Anfield end of the EPL.
      
      Come on you Irons!
      
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      May 20, 2021 8:52pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        LOL, I got caught defending Man U Supporters the other day on this Blog re: those *** Glazers – nearly got excommunicated. Fenway aren’t much better… but they haven’t quite lost the Kop or the Klopp yet.
        
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        May 21, 2021 5:51am
rangitoto

Has the Hamilton train carried any passengers so far this week?
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May 20, 2021 9:46am
- MCos
  
  Frances Cook who works at the NZH estimated 80% full on her train.
  Of course you might not believe her, but you can always give her a ring & see if she telling fibs.
  https://twitter.com/francescook/status/1394367754266832898?s=21
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:14am
  - rangitoto
    
    Was reported as empty this morning.
    
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    May 20, 2021 11:30am
- sooty
  
  The conductor!
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:51am
- cmm
  
  Aspirational goal.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV8EQx3pLyw
  
  Perhaps this is (inaudible’s) favourite bedtime story?
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:58am
cmm

Good on the 82-year old bloke for keeping his mind sharp and getting a PhD at that age.

I’m not so sure the taxpayer gets a good deal sponsoring this because he’s never going to be using that education to the benefit of society.

Still, it is no less valuable than people who get PhDs in basket weaving (like Megan Woods) or BAs in French History.

Also, he’s contributed heaps to society through his life (and as a taxpayer), so we can allow him a chance to get some of that back.

It gives me something to strive for in retirement. I’m too busy working to prioritise studies over work, but maybe in a few years it could be worth having some me-time and pursuing a PhD.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/125119677/retired-veterinarians-desire-to-keep-learning-earns-him-phd-at-age-82
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May 20, 2021 9:54am
- doggone7
  
  Megan Woods has a PhD in history. That’d be a waste of time surely.
  
  History might be flavour of the month for schools but we know that the knowledgeable in places like this know far more than those who’ve studied history.
  Don’t we?
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:49am
  - Jack5
    
    There are Ph.D.’s and Ph.D.’s.
    
    Woods’s Ph.D. is in feminist history.
    
    It’s interesting that during a great epidemic, the politician Woods uses “Dr” as her honorific.
    
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    May 20, 2021 12:40pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Her Ph.D. gave her plenty of time to sit around eating though. Maybe she should have simultaneously undertaken a Ph.D. in Gastronomics?
      
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      May 20, 2021 12:50pm
      - doggone7
        
        Her PhD gave her time to research something about our history. There’ll be plenty to rubbish that.
        
        If she’d left school at 16 with 6th Form Certificate or no qualifications and got to Parliament there’d be enough criticising her as uneducated.
        
        Perhaps you could inform us about the great qualifications you gained by way of comparison. Maybe also assure us you did not use the time sitting around eating.
        
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        May 20, 2021 3:15pm
      - Nickc2
        
        doggone7@3:15PM
        For what it’s worth, I left school at the age of 15. The day of that birthday actually. I joined the military 3 Months later and served my country for 27 plus years, going from non-commissioned to commissioned and being awarded an MBE along the way. Post military service, I travelled the world working on allied military projects for 26 years.
        In short, I’ve worked with many academics throughout my life where some put their degrees etc to good use and I admire them for that whilst others with degrees in the likes of backward basket weaving, I wouldn’t give the time of day. Megan Woods degree falls into that category. A fucking oxygen thief.
        
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        May 20, 2021 9:13pm
    - MCos
      
      Her PhD thesis is entitled
      ‘Integrating the Nation: Gendering Maori Urbanisation and Integration, 1942-1969’
      https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/4352/woods_thesis.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:04pm
      - Jack5
        
        MCos, from page 2 the subject title, I acknowledge that the emphasis in Woods’s thesis is on Westernisation of Maori women.
        
        But it’s about women, and is feminist history.
        
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        May 20, 2021 1:44pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Do you think holders of doctoral degrees should be allowed to use the honorific ‘Dr’?
      
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      May 20, 2021 1:55pm
      - Jack5
        
        Of course it’s a legal honorific. But many folk use it only when its relevant to the discipline it which their Ph.D. was awarded.
        
        Do you think people who have “honorary doctorates” should use the “Dr” prefix, Milky? And what of dentists, veterinarians, physiotherapists?
        
        Milky, would you support the German practice, where an academic with two Ph.D.’s can use the honorific, “Doctor, doctor”?
        
        When it comes to honorary doctorates, the number a person has received can be outrageous.
        
        Consider Daisaku Ikeda, the Japanese Buddhist philosopher and third president of the Buddhist organisation Soka Gakkai. Between 1975 and 2010 Ikeda received 300 honorary doctorates. The first was bestowed on him by Moscow University and the 300th by the University of Massachusetts Boston.
        
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        May 20, 2021 3:32pm
- tf78
  
  cmm, some people just want fulfillment/satisfaction in their lives – good on them.
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:19pm
- Ehlana
  
  An 82 year old may have much life experience and wisdom to share with the younger ones around him – if they care to learn.
  
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  May 20, 2021 1:33pm
Maggie Pie

OMG – I need to share this with you now 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/buitengebieden_/status/1394341977194483716
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May 20, 2021 9:57am
- Opie
  
  I would have more confidence in that collie running our country than the current mob
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:57am
JibberJabber

Ian Wishart
@investigatemag

Epic #nzhistory fail by
@chrishipkins
.. new curriculum pretends iwi were communal #ecosmurfs before Pakeha arrived. No mention of genocide, slavery and human sacrifice. You can’t understand Waitangi sans context.

https://twitter.com/investigatemag/status/1395092720973082626
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May 20, 2021 10:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Is Investigate Magazine still a thing?
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:27am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Phucktifino…
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:25pm
- Apropos of the Wet Snow
  
  I see complaints being reported about the omission from the history curriculum of the 600 or so years of history between Maori arriving by boat, and Europeans similarly arriving by boat. Given that they were, by definition, a stone age culture who didn’t do anything of note nor write anything down, why is this a surprise?
  
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  May 20, 2021 10:43am
  - Ehlana
    
    Apropos, in those 600 years they would have had an impact on the landscape, adapted to a new climate, flora and fauna and probably fought a few inter-tribal wars. Those wars and the people movements that accompanied them would go a long way to explaining, for example, why more than one Maori group may have claims on a single piece of land.
    
    And all that was before the white man arrived, and the impact of that arrival with regards to trade, technology, intermarriage, overseas travel, religion etc.
    
    So quite important really, if you want to put the Treaty of Waitangi in context.
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:38pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Why bother to put the Treaty in context? Whose context is going to be acceptable?
      IMO, by going down this track, we’re inviting problems that will last forever. Should we, and do we have the right to do so?
      Ponder for a while the endless bickering that will occur between tribes and those within tribes claiming more rights than others (where only financial redress will solve the problem albeit for a very short period of time). Let’s not impose this crap on our grandkids.
      And don’t ever forget, there are various degrees of being Maori and this will manifest itself in the very near future.
      
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      May 20, 2021 2:02pm
  - Waipuk
    
    I think it was much less than 600 years or are they taking 1840 as day one.
    
    Perhaps how they determine when they did arrive. There possible origins. And much, much more.
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:58pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Wiped out the megafauna, destroyed vast swathes of forest, ramped up warfare, slavery, cannibalism and all other manner of nasty (by todays standards) social behaviours: bigotry, misogyny and other social ills common to warring pre-literate stone-age culture.
    
    But yeah, lets push the manichean enlightened noble savage/evil whitey (who ended the wars, cannibalism and slavery) bollocks down the throats of children who are not allowed any say in the matter
    
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    May 20, 2021 3:31pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Tell that to the moas!
    
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    May 20, 2021 8:54pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ian Wishart evidently did not read the (proposed) NZ history curriculum.
  
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  May 20, 2021 4:08pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    He’s too smart to fall for that propaganda rag.
    
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    May 20, 2021 5:04pm
cmm

Herald has a really useless article on bitcoin.

“According to Coinbase, there are about 18.7 million Bitcoins in circulation and only 21 million will ever exist. The reason for that is unclear, and where all the Bitcoins are is anyone’s guess.”

What? The reason for there being 18.7 million is very clear – that’s how many have been mined. The reason why there will only ever be 21 million is also very clear – that’s how many possible unique bitcoin codes there are.

Bitcoins are just bit strings (numbers) that match a certain cryptographic criterion. There is no short-cut way to identify these numbers except by generating numbers and testing them. Sure you can use special computing equipment (eg. FPGAs) to help in the exercise but they still need to be searched for.

Bitcoin values are extremely volatile and subject to crashes because they represent nothing and are backed by nothing physical – all they are are a a bunch of zeroes and ones.

Now you might argue that all fiat currencies are just numbers in a bank account, but at least they are tied to an economy. They are, essentially, shares in the economy which is why money printing causes inflation.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/bitcoin-why-is-crypto-down-bitcoin-fell-nearly-30-at-one-point-losing-70-billion-in-market-value/SCO2BPLN5FMSLA6FFALLVMD7V4/
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May 20, 2021 10:21am
- JibberJabber
  
  I’m quite happy to admit that my mind just could not compute how Bitcoin works, but thanks cmm your post has cleared it up a little ?.
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:00pm
- alloytoo
  
  Thanks cmm, you explanation visa viz the value of bit coins vs the value of fiat currencies agrees completely with my own.
  
  Though sometimes I think I’m going mad when I have to explain it.
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:33pm
JibberJabber

LABOUR MP ACTIVE MEMBER OF ONLINE HATE GROUP

https://israelinstitute.nz/2021/01/labour-mp-active-member-of-online-hate-group/

Dr. Webb is a committed anti-Israel activist and has made no secret of this on social media. He also has amassed a long history of concerning comments and conduct associated with the conflict that have long troubled members of the New Zealand Jewish community.
While one of the more high profile MPs, Dr. Webb isn’t the only active member in our current coalition government. There are also two other MPs who are members of “Aotearoa Standing with Palestine” – Labour Party MP, Ibrahim Omer, who joined the hate group about 3 years ago and Green MP, Teanau Tuiono who joined about one year ago.

The Human Rights Commission has told The Israel Institute of New Zealand they

“do not condone, and are very concerned by, any alleged association of MPs with forums that express discrimination or racism. We also agree that antisemitism should not be allowed to grow in NZ politics.”
NZ Human Rights Commission

Prof Hunt spoke out against antisemitism similar to that found in “Aotearoa Standing with Palestine” that was previously exposed in another anti-Israel group – Kia Ora Gaza, run by Roger Fowler – saying they peddled “utterly deplorable antisemitism”.

Hardly surprised the “screaming skull” is involved as well…
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May 20, 2021 11:07am
- MCos
  
  I looked at that Facebook page.
  It’s hardly a ‘hate group’ if that’s anything to go by.
  
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  May 20, 2021 1:35pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    For some people, criticism of Israel = antisemitism.
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:56pm
Rusty

Excellent opinion piece by Mike Hosking in the herald today.

Left wing socialism in 2021 is being rejected all around the western world because ironically the covid lock downs and restrictions of personal freedoms is what socialism is all about and the people hate it!

Jacinda and her mob only won the elections last year because they scared 5 million kiwis into believing thousands would die of covid and when it came to election time Jacinda could tell us she prevented it happening.

Hopefully Kiwis are now waking up to their real agenda of imposing a socialist system of a one state party or 2 state party (run by Maori)

If we don’t push back then it will happen and I might join Mike Hosking by going to Aussie!
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May 20, 2021 11:17am
- rockape
  
  Kiwis are a bit slow on the uptake but hopefully by 2023 they will see the light.
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:46pm
EssenX

Woman arrested for racist rant in Farmers by Police under Summary Offences Act 1981 Section 4 (1) c (I) with using insulting words while being reckless about whether any person was alarmed or insulted by those words.

The words the woman is alleged to say to her husband, “Don’t worry, it won’t be long before they leave our country” and allegedly asking someone if she was born and bred in New Zealand.

I have no time for racists, racism and the arrested person in this instance sounds like a moron. But should the Police be arresting people for speech, especially this sort of speech?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/racist-rant-in-farmers-store-woman-arrested-after-incident-involving-mosque-shooting-victims-family/47L2CMKZYPDEPATSZO7PAWH3NA/
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May 20, 2021 11:18am
- Swifty
  
  While impolite, rude and just plain wrong – this should not be a criminal matter – as many, many folk before me have asked; where will this end?
  
  People are rude to others all the time for a million different reasons and we don’t apply criminal sanctions to them.
  
  Far, far better for everyone if the people on the receiving end of this rudeness just give it back both barrels and move on.
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:23pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Random, rude insults can apparently be a criminal offence. Probably shouldn’t be, although I can remember people being happy with protestors at Anzac Day ceremonies being charged for offensive behaviour. standards change. Personally, I think anyone going about their business in Farmers should be prepared to face racist abuse in the name of free speech.
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:00pm
    - Jack5
      
      Random, rude insults can apparently be a criminal offence … [Milky, 2pm post]
      
      ? Then all who post on Kiwiblog are liable for a spell in the slammer.
      
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      May 20, 2021 3:38pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That would be an inhumane punishment for those already in prison.
        
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        May 20, 2021 4:06pm
    - Swifty
      
      Why single out ‘abuse’ that is supposedly racist?
      
      What about fattist or sexist, or ageist or because of the colour of one’s hair, or who they work for, or their clothes choice or type of shoes worn, or the time of day….
      
      Who defines ‘abuse’. It [Is] it any unwelcome comment?
      
      Are we proposing enforcing laws which criminalise unwelcome comments, of any type?
      
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      May 20, 2021 3:57pm
      - Swifty
        
        Thanks Mod.
        
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        May 20, 2021 5:06pm
- rouppe
  
  It leads one to wonder just how quickly nz will head down that particular rabbit hole.
  
  If I were to yell at Jacinda “you’re the worst pm we’ve ever had”, would that qualify as “using insulting words while being reckless about whether any person was alarmed or insulted by those words” and therefore be subject to arrest?
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:32pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have been subject to racial abuse a couple of times along the lines of “Go back to China.” I would not even consider reporting that to the police.
  
  If it was accompanied by…. “or we will smash your face in” and the culprit was a large tattooed male, that’s a differnt matter entirely.
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:10pm
  - Swifty
    
    We’ve got some real low-IQ types in NZ I’m afraid Benedict.
    
    I’m terribly sorry, dear fellow.
    
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    May 20, 2021 5:08pm
  - Jack5
    
    Good on you Benedict for being staunch. Such abusers are cowardly types.
    
    Felt something similar to you a few times by being called Gwai Lo in threatening tone in shady Chinese streets, but more puzzled than threatened by an African American, curious about my accent, asking: “What are you, a Cracker?”
    
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    May 20, 2021 9:21pm
- virtualmark
  
  There’s a bunch of quite unusual “offences” in the Summary Offences Act.
  
  I suspect most of us would be bankrupted by fines if they were rigorously enforced.
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:44pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  They don’t arrest wild occupying activists but seize on someone mild.
  Are the Police loosing their marbles. There may be a technical offence but where’s the justice when they deliberately abandon their duties in larger matters?
  Have they turned into chickens?
  
  Socialist rules at Cinders say so.
  
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  May 20, 2021 5:10pm
Maggie Pie

Restauraner from Queenstown tells ZB’s Kerry Woodham he’s finding it impossible to attract staff.

When challenged on the cost of living and high rents, he says…. “wait-staff get free meals and can rent something down there for $150 a week”.
LOL!

Last time we booked in for a weekend it was $1800 a night!!
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May 20, 2021 11:23am
- cmm
  
  When they say “rent something” they mean shared rent with a bunch of others – 8 people in a 3 bedroom house.
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:36am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Goodness…I find it claustrophobic with 2 people in a 5 bedroom house.
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:07pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Rents in Queenstown are way cheaper than they used to be pre pandemic. You could rent a room in a decent house for $200 per week.
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:13pm
cmm

Has anyone else read the Police/Maori “Turning of the Tides Strategy”?

As is well known, Maori over offend at approx 3x the rate of the rest of the population and are approx 2x more successful at killing themselves on the roads.

So the cops and Maori get together to make some “aims”.

Sounds great. Let’s see some action.

There’s not a single word on HOW. Until there’s a HOW, this is not a plan and the “aims” can’t really be called goals.

That was put together in December 2012 – no doubt costing a shit load in consultation fees etc.

There was an update in 2016 claiming some success, but since then – no action. If anything it has gone backwards and the situation is even further out of hand.

It looks like the wokeness has shelved this one.

https://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/maori-police/turning-tide
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May 20, 2021 11:33am
- ISeeRed
  
  Note the passive framing in the first sentence: “How do we reduce repeat offending, victimisation and fatal crashes among Māori”? Not “by” Māori. Not “How could Māori reduce their high rates of offending, victimisation and fatal crashes?” These are just random things that mysteriously happen “among” Māori or to Māori. Also note the use of “we” in contrast to “Māori”, which implies the exclusion of Māori in reducing offending etc. Māori have no agency, no power, no choice. People who are not Māori must instead work to reduce the offending etc. that Māori themselves commit because…why? PS since we’re using English, that should be “Maoris”, the normal way of forming the plural in English. (Or maybe “the Maori” if this was 1921, not 2021.)
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:49pm
cmm

Senior gang member manages to evade cops for a year.

Really?

Come on plod, surely it’s not that hard or are there just too many of these sods out there it chase down?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/125189660/senior-gang-member-wanted-for-nearly-a-year-appears-in-court
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May 20, 2021 11:46am
- Surely Knott
  
  White woman to be charged for insulting words at the Farmers store. The video is clipped and we can’t see what the original altercation at the lipstick stand, but then we see a video showing the white woman asking “Excuse me, are you born here? ” to a Muslim woman which to be fair is pretty ignorant and insulting. But really is “Are you born here?” and “you’ll be going back soon” a criminal offence? Apparently so.
  
  But at the end of the video the person filming says to the woman “Ok, Karen” which is a slur on white women who are being difficult. Is this also criminal? It is insulting so meets the legal standard.
  
  What about phrases like “decolonize NZ”. That’s offensive and threatening and racist.
  
  This opens up a can of worms and is very unclear and it seems we already have a hate speech law on our books already so why do we need a new one.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/racist-rant-in-farmers-store-woman-arrested-after-incident-involving-mosque-shooting-victims-family/47L2CMKZYPDEPATSZO7PAWH3NA/
  
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  May 20, 2021 11:58am
curry4me

ASTERISK PRESIDENCY: Episode 18.
Direct from Harveywood, here is this week’s episode of Asterisk Presidency. Brought to you by the CCP, MSM, Wall Street, $oros, ANTIFA, BLM, and Burisma.
Will the billboard truck outside Hunter’s pad be towed? Will it cop a parking fine? Will My Son Hunter win an Oscar? Wil the Supremes dump Roe v Wade? Will Dems have a meltdown? Will other states drop the mask requirement for schools? Will Sleepy Joe wear three? Has Sleepy Joe waived sanctions on Nordstream2? Does he think it’s some kind of private jet? Will aliens from a UFO want to be taken to see Sleepy Joe? Are they that stupid?
Will they visit ‘Dr’ Jill instead? Is 2021 turning out worse than 1979? Is Jimmy Carter smiling? Will the Never Trumpers run Liz Cheney in 2024? Will the Dems beat them to it?
Will Hunters book hit the best seller list? When AP shared space with Hamas, who washed the coffee cups? Were ribs off the menu? Which state will allow open carry next? Will the wokerati boycott South Carolina? Will South Korea join the Quad next year? Does Sleepy Joe think it’s some kind of motorbike? Will kimchi be served at Quad meetings? Will some attendees mistake kimbap for sushi? Will Bill, and Melinda kiss, and make up? Will Sleepy Joe hit his golf ball in the right direction net week? Will Facebook shut down a pro Hamas page? Stay tuned Folks.
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May 20, 2021 11:59am
- Fletch
  
  Has Sleepy Joe waived sanctions on Nordstream2?
  
  Yeh he has. For the uninitiated, Nordstream is the pipeline being built to supply oil to Germany from Russia. Trump placed sanctions on the building of it. As Trump pointed out, what if Russia decides to cut it off? For any reason they like?
  
  https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/joe-biden-wimps-out-on-russias-nord-stream-2-pipeline/
  
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  May 20, 2021 12:18pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Biden didn’t have to waive those Sanctions
    He’s really soft on Russia
    What has Vlad Putin got on Joe and his family?
    Lol
    
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    May 20, 2021 1:43pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Is it really the USA’s business to regulate Germany’s energy supply? I thought Trump had wanted the Us to butt out of these worrisome overseas entanglements.
    
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    May 20, 2021 2:02pm
    - rangitoto
      
      The US spends a lot of money on defending Germany so it is there business.
      
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      May 20, 2021 5:00pm
Fuzzysnuggleduck

Since Pale Male and Stale voices are the least important of all, as a way of enforcing “equity” – consider that ageism is fine and dandy. You have less value with the passing of time, viewed by the lens of SJWs. Dinosaurs.

I liked a line from Norm MacDonald’s, ‘Hitler’s Dog, Gossip and Trickery’:

” It’s always supposed to be for the people {in} the future.
That’s how they try to trick you, you know?
They always go, “The children are the future,” which is true…..but they said that when I was a child.
Then I grew up.
I was like, “Here I am!”
They were like, “Now it’s the other kids.”
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May 20, 2021 12:04pm
- cmm
  
  If the kids are the future why the hell are we burdening them with so much debt?
  
  I suppose it is for their own good.
  
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  May 20, 2021 1:52pm
70andstilllearning

My laugh of the day.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/early-edition/audio/deborah-pead-air-nz-show-a-good-reputation-is-the-best-insurance-policy-during-hard-times/
“The latest Colmar Brunton Corporate Reputation Index ranks the national airline first among 50-companies for responsibility, trust and leadership.

Pak’n’Save takes second place, closely followed by TVNZ.”

Why does the cynic in me say – Really?
After all:
– Air NZ sits on credits from last year for flights they cancelled and it was a push to get that even.
– Pak ‘n” Save ho hum – maybe but each is franchise
– TVNZ “trust” LOL.
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May 20, 2021 12:09pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M4LxCGIX8Q&list=PLRE6vgY7NmNFHRj0DwgGj-w0QKYK9s2Mb&index=1
“Transformation through education.” Those are the words used by the Chinese Communist Party to describe the internment camps that house hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs scattered across the Xinjiang Autonomous region. An increasing number of Western governments have declared China’s treatment of the Uyghur people a genocide. Leaked documents reveal a system of forced labour, forced abortions and forced ideological indoctrination. What is really going on in these camps? Is it really a genocide? Are we funding it? And what can we do to stop it? All that, in this video.
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May 20, 2021 12:23pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSBGDo3WsF4

Sleepy Joe wants to add South Korea to the Quad.

Moon is set to meet Biden on Friday, and if the Quad issue comes up, Moon would probably not hesitate in joining the informal body. Anyhow, Biden stands to lose because a conservative, anti-China regime is expected to come to power in Seoul. [About time. Moon isn’t up to much. Thank God for term limits.]
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May 20, 2021 12:24pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

Would you consider this…. ‘child abuse’?

https://twitter.com/MaryMargOlohan/status/1395179623584051201
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May 20, 2021 1:03pm
dave_c_

Covid-19: Traces found in wastewater of Christchurch, Rotorua and Queenstown

Unless those who make such claims prove how this was detected, and prove that it is what they say, I treat this as ‘Lies and scaremongering’. (yet again)
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May 20, 2021 1:32pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Really? You think the ministry of health would lie about test results?
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:04pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Stupid! You think they never lie when caught out so many times?
    I will not bother to list the shit lies even before the Covid (mild flu) came to NZ.
    Go get your 10th dose of the vaccine sonny
    
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    May 20, 2021 6:59pm
- Tall Man
  
  Actually, I think it proves beyond doubt that covid, in a mild form, has been with us in the community for quite some time as many experts have claimed since November 2019.
  
  Remember again how many of our positive cases have been hospitalised due to covid in the past 6 months ……… None!
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:06pm
- cmm
  
  Quite.
  
  Unless there’s an explanation of the methodology it is hard to know what this means.
  
  File it alongside “80,000 will die”.
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Well I did not die yet, came close. Now there are 80,000 saved by the TEAM of 5 Fucking million, and don’t you ever forget that.
    JA
    
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    May 20, 2021 7:09pm
- fernglas
  
  Don’t be afraid. It’s just a few dead cells from people who have recovered, but the headline “Ex-Covid patient has a dump” doesn’t sell as many papers.
  
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  May 20, 2021 2:49pm
  - Batman
    
    I found the drug use analysis by suburb to be far more of a riveting read!
    
    4 2
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    May 20, 2021 3:24pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Don’t fret Batboy – they knew the budget was a bummer from their embargoed copy so thought they could help running some early interference.
      
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      May 20, 2021 5:32pm
I remember when

TV1 – 12 O’Clock News Bulletin:
Didn’t realise things were going to be so bad.
At some future date, as yet unspecified, they may not be able to play cricket tests in Melbourne.
The reason is that, up to, every third days may be too hot due to ‘climate change.’
To illustrate the outcome they showed a game, amongst children, at what may have been Alice Springs – brown dirt with nary a blade of grass in sight.
Interviewed Joe Root who acknowledged the possible problems in 30-years time.
Not a trace of any science, except near cloudless blue skies, but a wealth (after all it is Budget Day) of good honest personal opinion.
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May 20, 2021 2:02pm
MCos

I see the Republicans in the US Congress don’t want an independent inquiry into the Jan 6 fracas.
One would have thought they would have jumped at the chance for the involvement of BLM & Antifa to be exposed.
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May 20, 2021 2:17pm
- Batman
  
  Some did vote for it, so there’s that.
  
  Though I’m sure they will be thrown out within the month.
  
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  May 20, 2021 3:11pm
JibberJabber

An old Pilot sat down in Starbucks and ordered a cup of coffee.
As he sat sipping his coffee, a young woman sat down next to him.
She turned to the pilot and asked, ‘Are you a real pilot?’
He replied, ‘Well, I’ve spent my whole life flying biplanes, Cubs, Aeronca’s, Neiuports, flew in WWII in a B-29, and later in the Korean conflict, taught 50 people to fly and gave rides to hundreds, so I guess I am a pilot – what about you?’
She said, ‘I’m a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about naked women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about naked women. When I shower, I think about naked women When I watch TV, I think about naked women. It seems everything makes me think of naked women.’
The two sat sipping in silence.
A little while later, a young man sat down on the other side of the old pilot and asked, ‘Are you a real pilot?’
He replied, ‘I always thought I was, but I just found out I’m a lesbian.’
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May 20, 2021 2:43pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300311202/the-sixmonth-mortgage-holiday-and-the-6000-in-extra-baggage
So: is this a plea for someone to start a “Give-a-Little” page ?
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May 20, 2021 5:57pm
- MCos
  
  Not at all.
  
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  May 20, 2021 6:49pm
Cinematic

Does the USA still have a president?
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May 20, 2021 6:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yup, but at Mar – a – Lago.
  Back soon.
  The other guy does not know what a President is
  
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  May 20, 2021 6:54pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Back soon?
    So it has turned into a millennialist cult now?
    
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    May 21, 2021 6:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Come and talk sense in 2022
      
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      May 21, 2021 8:17am
Jethrod

I have just spotted this link and thought to share it here
https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/05/the-fight-for-new-zealand-is-now-underway/
Any comments at all.
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May 20, 2021 8:58pm
Observer of Life

J-Rod: Yep.. be afraid.
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May 21, 2021 12:14am

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