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February 19, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 February 2021

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General Debate

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kloyd0306

Question of the day:

Who moderates the moderators?

In particular, Batman.

He gets to delete posts but no one gets to delete his.

Why is he allowed to be the master, unabated?

Aren’t moderators supposed to be impartial? If so, Batman sure ain’t. He is the most outspoken of all the moderators and it is all too clear which side of the fence from which he spouts his biased views.

A biased moderator – a total contradiction in terms.

I am all for free speech but this particular moderator is able to both moderate and commentate. Which one is he? If he wishes to comment, give up the moderator position. He cannot, and should not, be both.

Until then, I would suggest he puts a sock in it. Come to think of it, put a sock in both ends. The less crap the better.
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February 19, 2021 8:02am
- Batman
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Right, you may have missed the first few hundred times I’ve said this so I’ll repeat. Moderation is separate from commenting. There is no link between moderation and the comments made by a moderator, known or unknown.
  
  As it happens, pretty much all of the moderators are frequent commenters and all have their own opinions. They chose not to reveal themselves probably for exactly this reason, because they would become the easy target for moaning and whining from people who feel hard done by and want an axe to grind.
  
  Who moderates the moderators? Well if you have specific complaint you can take it to DPF as has always been the case. You will also know that we generally biff all comments which are certain moans at moderators and the moderation. In this case I feel it is worth responding to make clear that I always approve comments that are critical of me, unless someone really goes off the deep end in which case I’d pass it on to the group of mods to smack down.
  
  You also make references to fences and apparently you have clairvoyance on which side of the political fence I sit on. Well I’m sorry to inform you that while I may be centre-right and socially libertarian, that doesn’t make me a lefty in any way. It seems like a you issue, whereby you’ve moved the centre point well to the right beyond where it sits in NZ (and let’s not get into news sources and the influence of those on KB commenters). So frankly, you can foxtrot Oscar with your accusations on this one ?
  
  No I won’t be giving up moderation, because otherwise multiple commenters would have to as well. Or the blog would grind to a halt as some of the heavy lifters would stop moderating!
  
  As for putting a sock in it, well, two can play that game. Please enjoy this suggested purchase for your ends https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/darn-tough-mens-comfort-crew-health-socks-3-pack/R2461571.html?gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1268368&ds_rl=1268368&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvbiBBhD-ARIsAGM48bw3ogYXFeW-PQ-QjfvjafGBa1Cx2gSlteCpVSiqt_12lhpfj0EPn9saApHbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
  
  Happy Friday!
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:47am
  - Simon
    
    Moderates get lots of shit but they were right about the Qanon not getting posted on Kiwiblog.
    
    At the time thought it was unfair because Qanon was bad as say CNN and they didnt stop CNN links. So they are half right, got Qanon right.
    
    Kiwiblog should be regarded as soft centre left, including the moderates. Take it from there.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:01am
  - Bluegrass
    
    Permit me to disagree. Perception is the key here.
    
    If you have a moderator who is also a commentator who makes partisan comments then it is not unlikely that the moderator will be perceived by those on the other side of the aisle, as it were, as being biased and to comment accordingly, as in this thread. It’s human nature.
    
    And a fortiori any moderator indulging in a triggered foxtrot oscar type of response, wearing his ‘commentator’ hat [of course] merely reveals an arguably immoderate temperament which is antithetical to the concept and practice of moderation.
    
    PS That’s my view as a past and current moderator in other venues…
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:27am
  - pseudonymous
    
    Typing with the hunt and peck method must have taken you sometime to respond to Kloyd0306. And more downticks that upticks is the result. You have a Happy Friday also Magoo.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:29am
  - zulumonster
    
    I defintitely missed “the first few hundred times I’ve said this” … maybe you got moderated for repetition and hyperbole?
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:57pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  As I and others have posted before its DPFs blog. If you dont like the rules you can always go to The Standard.
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:55am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Amen to that.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:07am
    - tf78
      
      Awoman
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:09am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Why don’t you just stay there?
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:48am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I’m happy with the rules and I’m happy that moderators also comment. But I’m not sure that all the content being blocked by moderators is actually against the rules, rather than just being assertions the moderator considers unreasonable.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:15am
    - WaynelSexton
      
      I enjoy having my comments deleted for wrong think. It makes me laugh.
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:31am
      - RichardX
        
        There is a difference between wrong think and just being wrong as demonstrated by your past comments.
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:10am
    - Tall Man
      
      I do agree with that at times.
      
      Sometimes I can hear the “woosh” as my point is clearly missed but like Wayne, I generally smile.
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:37am
  - pseudonymous
    
    Standard response.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:33am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t think Kloyd was moaning about the rules merely his perception of the application of those rules.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:50am
  - edhunter
    
    The Standard & BFD are both echo chambers, at least here there is a semblance of debate for which DPF & the mods should be given credit & applause.
    
    Just because you’re a bible bashing anti abortionist doesn’t mean there’s not common ground on which we would both agree and the fact that we are here would indicate we have more that unites us than divides us. Celebrate what unites but just because we disagree on some things doesn’t make us enemies.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:26am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Agreed.
      There has to be SOME moderation, since otherwise people just abuse one another and get their rocks off just being unpleasant.
      I haven’t sense that any particular topic or line of reasoning has been shut down here- aside from abuse of politicians or their families which borders on bad taste.
      So if there is a point you want to get across, then moderation is probably serving us well if it makes you think a little HOW you put it across in a way that gets past their filtering.
      If you run afoul and get a push back, brush yourself off – and assuming the topic is not loathsome or inappropriate, try again. Maybe try another day, and try a different way. If it really matters.
      This sort of approach works for more than just posting stuff on the internet.
      
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      February 19, 2021 3:05pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    The moderators over at the Standard are very quick to ban people who have a different view point to them. They like to keep the echo chamber all in agreement.
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  So far as I know, Batman is the only commenter who has identified himself as a moderator. This being Kiwiblog, some people have fixated on any issues with moderation as being his fault. Batman’s response above should make it all pretty clear.
  And here’s something to add to the sock:
  http://luluncat.co.nz/product/harden-up-concrete-pills
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:06am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Have to agree with you Mike. As I have said before, you can debate with Batman, and he does not go all snarky and get the hammer out.
    Others, bang, it’s gone with no reasoning
    
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    February 19, 2021 1:29pm
- Frank the tank
  
  I’d argue for all his ‘shortfalls’ in terms of his posts – Batty and most of the moderators appear fairly reasonable here.
  
  I’ve only been warned once or twice and re-calibrated accordingly. Like getting penalized in a game of rugby – only a dumb arse gets pinged for the same thing again.
  
  And yes he can be both. In fact i’d argue his views are critical in terms of presenting an alternative to the standard views here. In terms of our lefties here mostly his are the most educated (aside from his TDS) when compared to the crayon scribble of a couple of others.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:11am
- Inandout
  
  kloyd, perhaps I was behind the times and thought Batman as a moderator was a rumour. This perhaps explains why my comments are sometimes many hours late to appear.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:29am
- Andrei
  
  I have been commenting on this blog almost since the beginning – never once got put into the sin bin, but now my comments can sit for hours in moderation, be edited to reduce their impact or just not make it through.
  
  In the early days of moderation a Greek quotation was not allowed – that seems to have changed Maggy Wassilieff occaisionally deploys cyrillic “Мэгги Василиев”, to make her point and now I can too.
  
  But it is all arbitary and as a conversational medium the threads are непригодный
  
  Which is sad but a sign of the times with weaponised deplatforming the method of choice in controlling public discourse and owning the narrative
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:30am
  - tf78
    
    Andrei, when will we reach “Peak Woke” do you think? I can bear much more of this.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:12am
- WaveyDavey
  
  I’m more concerned about how he’s happy to delete comment on the grounds of personal abuse “play the man not the ball”
  
  Yet is happy to spray personal abuse around himself – accusing someone of being mentally unwell a couple of days back springs to mind
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:49am
- Tall Man
  
  I have also commented on some of Batman’s comments as I think they sail close to the wind and I have had comments deleted that I felt were far less in breach of the rules than his.
  
  In saying that, I have no issue with him or any of the other moderators posting their opinions or even their abuse/insults as long as I am given the same latitude.
  
  It would be a very dull world if we all felt exactly the same and expressed our opinions the same way as well.
  
  Let me introduce you moderators to a new word for the day … “latitude” 😉
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:54am
- kloyd0306
  
  Open your eyes fellow bloggers.
  
  It is a well known fact that the media has been infiltrated by the left.
  
  They love power and will anything to hold on to power.
  
  And Kiwi Blog has been similarly infiltrated.
  
  Take note of the speed with which a leftist rally came forward to defend Batman’s dual roles of both commentator and moderator.
  
  Yes, when challenged, the left will do anything to justify having their cake and eating it too.
  
  Batman et al have all the credibility of a vegetarian shark.
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:17am
- NoFax
  
  I did not realise that Batman was a moderator as well. His comments are mostly Batshit crazy! I am unsure whether he is a good moderator or not but some of his comments cross the line. The only other option then is to report – I hope someone else reviews the reports.
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:34am
Happychappy

What and how will the Government deal with the 7.6 million dozes orderedthat would be enough to vaccine 3.8 million people if it reduces the effectivness of the vaccine on the South African variant of Covid -19 like scientists have found in South Africa.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/02/coronavirus-south-african-covid-19-mutation-reduces-pfizer-vaccine-s-effectiveness-study.html
Who would be prepared to have a vaccine that the South African Government won’t even use on their own population.
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February 19, 2021 8:03am
- Frank the tank
  
  It will have the same issues as the flu jab. Be prepared to be spectacularly let down. (Little) Aotearoans aren’t going anywhere in a hurry.
  
  BTW – using the example of SA. Question for all – how is a country like this:
  
  a). Going to roll out a vaccine?
  b). Going to monitor who has been jabbed and with what
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:40am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    What Im interested in is what is Cindy going to do about the Anti Vaxxers. Will she take measures to force them to vaccinate or will she just ignore the issue.
    Qantas and no doubt other airlines wont carry anyone who isnt vaccinated. Other businesses may follow suit.
    
    Afterall the fuss about Covid it would be a weak Government who said oh well if you dont want to be vaccinated dont.
    
    I suspect the citizens would treat such a response badly. Like you lot put us through all this lockdown stuff and now you wont do anything about making sure everyone is vaccinated.
    Could be interesting with the Human Rights lawyers banging on and the other side banging on about the Governments duty to protect its citizens.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:02am
    - Simon
      
      Cant force people to take vaccines.
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:14am
      - MCos
        
        Indonesia intends to fine people who refuse.
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:42am
    - Frank the tank
      
      You can’t force people to vaccinate. A case like that would be porn for a half-decent lawyer.
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:14am
    - Charmaine Hawke
      
      The other question to factor in is what happens if this turns out like the Swine Flu vaccinations in the 1970’s or worse still Thalidomide?
      We are rushing out vaccines that still have not been properly tested, there is a reason a normal vaccine takes 10 years, from companies governments have indemnified from payout if things go wrong.
      I am no anti-vaxxer but am really worried if this is a ticking time bomb then we may be doing more harm than good.
      As for airlines who won’t take un-vaccinated passengers that will be a commercial decision they may regret later assuming we still have airlines in 12 months.
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:31am
      - Pharmachick
        
        Thalidomide is not the correct analogy, if there were gross deformities we would know by now (and FYI the company that made thalidomide Chemie Grunenthal GMBH, KNEW before they went mass market, it was documented among their own workers – they found the files in a literal filing cabinet in Germany about 10 years ago).
        
        But there’s always the potential for something like diethylstilbestrol. Unfortunately no amount of clinical trials can actually prevent/detect that, only long-term population-wide use, all therapeutics roll the dice with that one.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol
        (see: side effects… imagine if taking something in pregnancy resulted in adenocarcinoma of the cervix in your 14 year old daughter [ref 52])
        
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        February 19, 2021 1:38pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Whoops, sorry this is the better link:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_defects_of_diethylstilbestrol
        
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        February 19, 2021 1:40pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        PS Diethylstilbestrol-type ADR are vanishingly rare, and have never been seen with vaccines. Do not panic, the odds are greater than the NZ lotto. The reason we teach these drugs is they’e the exceptions that prove the rule.
        
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        February 19, 2021 1:49pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        In the modern version of ‘I am Legend’ a genetically altered measles virus (a retrovirus to treat cancer) ended up killing most of the world, and then most of the living became crazed cannibals.
        Fingers crossed!
        I keep telling my wife that ‘this or that’ will be handy in the upcoming zombie apocalypse, and she tells me ‘aint happening’.
        One can but hope.
        Sadly, it is about as likely as the Iranian Imams who warned people that the vaccine turns you gay.
        My vote is for zombies.
        
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        February 19, 2021 3:18pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @Fuzzysnuggleduck… thanks (genuinely) for the laugh. I’m a massive horror movie fan… it predates my occupation, but it jibes oh-so-well.
        
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        February 19, 2021 5:18pm
      - Kiwi_in_Paris
        
        Don’t forget the 2009 Swine Flu vaccine:
        
        https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe
        
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        February 19, 2021 8:27pm
    - Cinematic
      
      So you’re for forced vaccinations? Courtesy of a bunch of elected pudding heads and their narcissistic band of academic groupies? They can jam their vaccine where the sun don’t shine.
      
      Qantas et al operate air taxis. Fucked if I’m going to pay the slightest heed to what they have to say. They’re not a monopoly and competitive pressures will soon deal to their ill considered posturing.
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:32am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I am pretty certain that it will become an international rule, “no vaccine, no air travel”.
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:09am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Wayne – this is going to be an interesting area. Are there limits on what businesses and employers can do? Can an employer insist all employees are vaccinated? Can any business excluded non-vaccinated customers?
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:16am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Yes agree, Just like a yellow fever card we carry and must keep up to date.
        Our company already looking at vaccinations for next crew changes.
        On another note, I think it “may” go like Aus in regards to schools. No vaccination then home school. or otherwise you should be entitled to know who is vaccinatted and who is’nt.
        I guess it will come down to how bad the Virius gets .
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:22am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        Airlines will find most of their customers prefer to travel with vaccinated people, and they will lose those customers if they cannot guarantee that and their competitors can. So ‘competitive pressures’ will not produce the outcome you are hoping for.
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:54am
      - Charmaine Hawke
        
        Wayne I certainly hope not as that is forced vaccinations, spare me your private company rot as you politicians have outsourced hard (read unpopular) decisions to the private sector, and that is something no government has a right to do.
        While I get it that you believe your, temporary, position in parliament makes you somehow better than the rest of us I have news and you are not.
        The last year has shown us how easy it is to capture the mind of a politician and keep it trapped in a state of fear so they think removing the rights of their citizens is actually a good thing.
        The archaeologist Neil Oliver has coined the term homo politicus for a being whose brain is dominated by the amygdala and I think he is 100% right.
        
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        February 19, 2021 11:01am
      - pdm
        
        Wayne Mapp that is exactly what our GP told mrspdm and I a few weeks ago.
        
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        February 19, 2021 11:59am
      - virtualmark
        
        Wayne,
        
        It will also be “no vaccine, no travel insurance”. Which will be another strong imperative for people to take the vaccine.
        
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        February 19, 2021 2:11pm
    - MCos
      
      Our government has already said the vaccine is optional.
      However.
      There are situations that require you to have a vaccine. Whether that’s legal or not, I don’t know, but if you refuse pending a court hearing it could be an expensive wait.
      Might be easier to find another job rather than go down that rabbit hole.
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:58am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Well for me. The company is already looking at mass vaccinations for Global work force.
      Simple. No vaccination No work. Your choice.
      If it turns out or percieved to turn as a Silver Bullet then surely people have a right tio know who is and isnt vaccinated.
      Think work force, schools etc
      Works both ways, And yes i believe it will be a requirement ( rightly or wrongly) for International travel.
      Your choice, no vaccination No travel.
      Probably good places for small Pacific Island countries to promote No vaccination required for tourists however it will fall on Airlines and IATA.
      
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      February 19, 2021 11:54am
    - theoldbloke
      
      Small problem for Cindy insisting everyone has the jabs
      Bill of rights.
      
      11. Right to refuse to undergo medical treatment
      Everyone has the right to refuse to undergo any medical treatment.
      
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      February 19, 2021 2:09pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    (Little) ~~Aotearoans~~NZedders aren’t going anywhere in a hurry
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:51am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      They will travel only when Cindy wants them to travel. Keep that in mind O’Brien bro.
      
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      February 19, 2021 3:26pm
  - pjay
    
    I just hope like hell that this will gain traction – although I doubt it … but it really underlines the origins, especially now that hard data is readily available.
    
    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2021/02/17/viel-gluck-dr-fuellmich/
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:57am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Why is it not OK to call it the China virus but OK to freely call (they tell us) an alleged “new variant” the UK strain? I’m surprised they also use the term South African strain, given that apartheid has now ended. I’m waiting for the virulent “Trump supporter” strain before I am 100% satisfied they are full of shit (I’m at 99.9% now).
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What beats me is that if I do have the vaccine and get unwell or incapacitated, there is no comeback. Nobody will take any responsibility and NO ACC claims
  
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  February 19, 2021 1:39pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    If there is to be no ACC we must have a right to sue. That was the tradeoff. I’m not happy with a “vaccine” which has been poorly tested, changes DNA and other countries have banned–we are not Sprague Dawley Rats.
    
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    February 19, 2021 4:52pm
- virtualmark
  
  Happychappy,
  
  We all need to wait to see the actual effectiveness of the vaccines against the South African variant.
  
  It was always known and understood that the virus would mutate, and that some or all of the initial vaccines wouldn’t be as effective against future mutations.
  
  It appears now that *in vitro, in the lab* those vaccines might be something like half to two-thirds as effective against the South African variant in particular.
  
  But that doesn’t yet mean that *in vivo, in a real human* that they don’t still provide enough protection to (a) protect people against serious cases that require hospitalisation and (b) massively slow down transmission.
  
  NZ has ordered the Pfizer, Novavax, J&J/Janssen and Astra Zeneca/Oxford vaccines. Way more of them than we notionally need. One or more of those vaccines will prove more effective against the South African variant than the others. We will tilt our vaccination programme towards that “more effective” vaccine.
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:10pm
Don Beckett

Are we in for an early autumn and cold winter? It’s quite cool here in Tauranga for this time of year – usually our mid-summer – and we generally follow the Northern Hemisphere with our weather.

Hopefully, Doc Holliday will be along shortly to give us an update on global warming/climate change //
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February 19, 2021 8:05am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I’m not so sure about the early autumn Don; the forecast for early next week is for a return to 30* days, although it should be noted that next week is the last week of summer!
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:08am
  - G152
    
    Then watch the climate change alarmists come out of the woodwork claiming hottest year in a selection of years.
    Fake news will eat it up
    
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    February 19, 2021 8:14am
    - Ruawai
      
      Maybe they should publish alarmist climate change stories every 3 months when the climate changes. They used to call it Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring but hence forth will be known as ‘climate change’.
      
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      February 19, 2021 8:59am
      - rangitoto
        
        On Pravda One last night I heard the breathless commentator say the that cold weather currently in the US was due to climate change. Yeah we used to call it winter.
        
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        February 19, 2021 10:37am
      - kowtow
        
        rangitoto
        
        Yes I noted that too.
        
        1985 Texas had a huge winter storm too . Upto 15 inches of snow in places.
        
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        February 19, 2021 2:02pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It’s not an uncommon occurrence to get heavy snowfall in Texas.
        https://abc13.com/winter-storm-texas-houston-weather-snow-in-does-it/2753082/
        
        The problem is that their energy provider took their eye off maintenance of basic infrastructure and talked up renewables.
        https://www.barrons.com/articles/texas-didnt-protect-its-investments-now-everyones-paying-the-cost-51613600915
        
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        February 19, 2021 5:10pm
  - James Stephenson
    
    although it should be noted that next week is the last week of summer!
    
    Only if you insist on forcing arbitrary calendar dates on the seasons. Astronomically speaking, Summer runs from the Solstice to the Equinox so we have another month or so…
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:12am
    - yossarian
      
      Bang. People who go by seasonal months are just too lazy to learn a little astronomy. It’s not that hard
      
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      February 19, 2021 11:04am
      - Paulus
        
        But we have been told when Matariki is – Jacinda decides !
        
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        February 19, 2021 1:33pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Not so sure about that Tony. I checked our weekly forecaste, and our hottest day here is 27 C. tomorrow – the rest of the week is 23 – 24 C., which is cool for this time of year. Often, we are still getting the odd 30 C. day – not so much last year, and not looking like it this year either.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:32am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      How on earth did you manage to get downticks for that post?
      
      8 4
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      February 19, 2021 12:15pm
      - Nickc2
        
        There are blooggers here who play the man, not the ball. That must be true, Batman told me not to do it.
        
        9 3
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        February 19, 2021 12:52pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Yes Paulus – I wonder if they live in Tauranga? 😆
        
        2 3
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        February 19, 2021 1:04pm
- Simon
  
  Comrade when its a little bit hot its the “temperature” when its cold and the solar panels freeze up its the “weather. “
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:11am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  my naked ladies are out in full bloom; the croquet lawn is covered in box elder leaves; the ducks have gone.
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:30am
  - rangitoto
    
    Did you eat all the ducks?
    
    8 0
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    February 19, 2021 10:39am
  - Bluegrass
    
    It’s minus 9’C here in upstate New York and snowing. I just looked out the window but no naked ladies…
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:44am
  - Pharmachick
    
    My snowdrops are out and magnolias budding… Bluegrass, you’re on the wrong coast mate 😉
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:05pm
- pdm
  
  Snowing or has snowed in Texas.
  
  That is hardly Global Warming.
  
  34 4
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  February 19, 2021 8:35am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    No, it’s not “global warming”, but last night TVNZ was blaming the storms in Texas and other US states on “climate change”…
    
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    February 19, 2021 8:49am
    - Nickc2
      
      TVNZ pushing their barrow again. Smarmy bastards.
      
      30 4
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      February 19, 2021 9:11am
    - Frank the tank
      
      TVNZ was assimilated into the Wokeborg a long time ago.
      
      22 3
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      February 19, 2021 9:44am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Leighton Smiths recent podcast had an interview with a world leading Climate Guy(back when they were called Meterologists) yep. A kiwi now retired in NZ.(88 years old)
        
        Should listen to his take on things and how the climate change movement started for him.
        
        Ie his attendance at Met conferences moved from 100 real experts to suddenly starting to have lawyers in attendance
        
        Fascinating
        Podcast 98 skip to minute 40
        
        https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/the-leighton-smith-podcast/
        
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        February 19, 2021 2:19pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Thanks Oldbloke,
        
        Great interview. Could’nt agree more.
        
        Another Great NZ Meteorolgist is Mike Scanlan and produced a great book, Had great privilege to be taught be him.
        
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        February 19, 2021 3:56pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Yes, I heard that and had to laugh. It just shows you how dangerous media platforms are when they are in the hands of the uneducated, I’ll informed and without accurate validation of the I’ll informed comments. Now of what was said was backed up with any science or fact.
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:08am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Others are waiting for the big cold (30-50 yrs or more) to set in.
      Two can play “Pick Your Climate”. We’ve had 2 extended periods without global warming and there is good science to justify a possible coming cold scenario.
      Basing decisions on the UN, which reported in TAR3 that the climate a chaotic system and their predictions impossible, is a hazard in waiting. It has led to a race by the elite for opportunism.
      
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      February 19, 2021 11:00am
    - amospicton
      
      I do not believe in anthropomorphic global warming but extreme cold weather is consistent with that theory. The extremes are exaggerated within an overall warming trend. Essentially the stability is disrupted. To repeat though I think it’s tosh – the climate has always changed and the evidence it’s man-made exists more in theoretical models (Shaun Hendy again) than in empirical evidence.
      
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      February 19, 2021 11:06am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Climate change is the excuse now not to do your research and have an understanding of weather patterns.
      Bring back meteorologists, Now there’s a Science
      
      13 3
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      February 19, 2021 12:00pm
  - artemisia
    
    Well a huge problem is fossil fuels contributing to climate change and poisoning Gaia. Until suddenly those sustainable windmills stop working when it gets a bit too cold because of climate change, the fossil fuel generators can’t cope and people freeze or worse. My head hurts.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:04am
    - rangitoto
      
      The reason they changed from global warming to climate change is that the latter can’t be falsified. The climate is always changing. Must have been a heck of a lot of plastic bags and SUV’s around during the last ice age.
      
      12 2
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      February 19, 2021 10:42am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Apparently Texas is now entering its 5th day of the big freeze. But it is not just the US, the same has happened across Western Europe.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Wimpy Texans have never been to Alaska. Fairbanks has been know to be minus 54C
    
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    February 19, 2021 1:43pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Don, we have been saying for the past 3 weeks the signs are there for an early, but sharp autumn. Pampas (bloo*y weed) flowering end of January, quince falling off the tree a month early, poplar went autumnal in January. So, the signs are early autumn, and hopefully more rain.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:03am
- Tall Man
  
  We have a lot of deciduous trees … a lot … and two swimming pools at the moment. The leaves are starting to turn, especially the deciduous hibiscus.
  
  The empty pool was like a basket of leaves yesterday,
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:58am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Non native trees easily get confused, Deciduous from Ntn hemisphere.
    Bit of an enigma as far am I’m concerned.?
    
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    February 19, 2021 12:05pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Oak, Silver Birch, Walnut, Cherry, Ginko, Poplar, Paulownia, Maples, Golden Elm and so on.
      
      Leaves are an ongoing pool problem but the shelter the trees give makes it worthwhile.
      
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      February 19, 2021 1:19pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Sorry, Did’nt explain correctly.
        
        What I meant was that its strange that Non Native trees seem to be all over the place dropping leaves.
        
        quite often at the first onset Autumn but really seem to be confused as the when they shed leaves.
        
        Not sure if totally true but something that I was thinking about and hence replied.
        
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        February 19, 2021 5:32pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Hi Don, My estimate it will blend Autumn into winter.
  
  Still a lot of warm water to NW ( La Nina) and plenty of energy.
  
  Interesting Europe, Follow the positions Jet streams in N’ hemisphere and that will show why. Low pressure tends to follow these.
  
  My pick will a wet and wild Autumn, plenty unsettled wx. Also picking Wly’s come in late after equinoxes ( equal day/night) with more settled wx. Plenty of Lows ( Tasman sea, Coral sea) will pepper Nth Island.
  I’m picking not cold Like Ntn hemisphere but unsettled and shitty.
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:28am
- Master Mariner
  
  Heres the site for jet streams Don.
  Spin the globe around and you can see where both have converged, Texas and Parts of Europe.
  Hence bitter cold weather.
  https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/global-jetstream#2021/02/18/1200Z/jetstream/surface/level/overlay=jetstream/orthographic=-246.22,13.04,470
  Before satilite imagery, We always followed to 500 Hpa chart ( barometric) this will give you indication of wx. More so in Tropics. i still use this.
  
  You mentioned, We follow Ntn Hemisphere wx. To a degree yes and No.
  Chance of bitter cold winter. The Jet stream will tell you that and especially if converge into one.
  Remember 2 jet streams Stn Hemi and 2 in Nth hemisphere.
  
  Of interest, it was the Japanese during WW2 that first new about these and actually bombed Canada. Fascinating Logic and understanding in making these devices.
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:44am
  - oldfella
    
    Interesting, MM. Didn’t know that about Japan bombing Canada. Were you referring to these fire balloons?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb
    
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    February 19, 2021 12:31pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Yeah thats them.
      
      Ingenious in understanding and design.
      
      I think the propaganda factor alone was enough the send Western seaboard into a panic, Which was there intention.
      Remember these Jet streams had’nt been discovered till then but the Japanese did, How I dont know but very clever all the same.
      
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      February 19, 2021 1:28pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Thanks MM – love this blog… learn a little every day.
        
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        February 19, 2021 2:08pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        There was no panic. After some initial reports, news coverage of the balloons was suppressed for fear of panic, but this ban was later dropped so that people could be alert to the incendiary devices.
        
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        February 19, 2021 3:12pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Wasaburo Oishi, Japanese meteorologist, discovered the Jet stream during his upper-air observations in the 1920s.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasaburo_Oishi
    
    https://www.airspacemag.com/as-next/as-next-may-unbelievablebuttrue-180968355/
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:04pm
Tony Stuart

So Corrections have confirmed that all seventeen prison inmates involved in the riot at Waikeria in December were gang members. Yet Corrections reviews into the riot have been specifically prevented by the Minister of Corrections, Kelvin Davis, from investigating the role of gang members.

https://twitter.com/SimeonBrownMP/status/1362203563162697730/photo/1

Is it any wonder there is an overwhelming perception that Labour, and Kelvin Davis in particular, are soft on crime?
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February 19, 2021 8:07am
- pdm
  
  Clueless Kelvin – the man that wants all criminals back on the streets and to hell with the victims and law abiding citizens.
  
  Aided and abetted by Angry Andy from 2017 until late 2020.
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:11am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Special K wants the future votes
    
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    February 19, 2021 8:29am
    - pdm
      
      Angry Andy had already organised that for prisoners.
      
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      February 19, 2021 8:36am
  - G152
    
    You leave Kelvins mates alone.
    Aussie gangsters run riot in NZ prison ?
    They’re just emptying them out
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:51am
    - Nickc2
      
      If it wasn’t for this lot, Kelvin wouldn’t have any mates.
      
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      February 19, 2021 12:42pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    Interesting that in Myanmar.
    The Military released prisoners, gave then a bag of meth and convinced them to reek havoc in the community.
    Yes I have Burmese friends who are able from time to time live stream from Myanmar
    
    So there ya go Kelvin. Put that on your todo list when releasing crims.
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:33pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Still, deep down we know that they are good boys –so we’ll give them gun licences when they’ve reformed themselves in prison.
  
  Nicole McKee: Can the Minister also confirm that 12 gang members on the national gang list hold a current firearms licence, up from the 11 acknowledged in August last year?
  
  Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I can confirm that. It is an operational issue as to whether the police will take any action against them. I would note that as the legislation currently stands those on the national gang list can have their firearms licence removed, if the police believe they are not a fit and proper person and associated with a gang. That is a piece of legislation the ACT Party voted against.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20210218_20210218_12
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:35am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Note that ACT voted against the legislation because it is a poor piece of legislation, rushed through parliament with zero regard to parliamentary process.
    Also note that “Associated with a Gang” is the definition of “not a fit and proper person”.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:48am
  - kowtow
    
    The worrying thing about this latest “opertion” with a silly name is that , according to the news reports , it is targeting the supply of firearms to the gangs , not the gangs themselves.
    
    And where does that supply come from , according to the press release , licensed firearms holders .
    
    Who is being targeted here , the gangs or the lawful license holder ?
    
    ps No mention of why the gangs resort to firearms so readily in the first place being that this govt has clearly signalled it has no intention of doing any serious punishing of criminal behaviour ( For the thickos here , “we want to empty the prisons”)
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:14pm
Paulus

Do I get the impression that the so called $55 million media have decided that instead of having any reason to query our wonnerful/do no wrong Government they will, and are playing, ACT against National on a regular basis as a new inspiring tactic !
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February 19, 2021 8:17am
- BAM
  
  It’s fairly obvious to most people the writing is on the wall for National.
  
  It will take a few election cycles but ACT under David Seymour will take Nationals place as the other major party.
  
  National is going to end up as the new NZ First catering for old boomers, with each election cycle getting less and less of the vote until they drop below 5% and disappear.
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:47am
  - Jimbob
    
    The National party tolerates ACT, they fill a space in politics that they will not fill, as National need to be in the centre. NZ population is more centre and left, so the National party has to cover that space to drown out Labour.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:38am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Quite. It’s the same as the Greens hoovering up the extremes for Labour – they always know that if they p*ss off the leftists they’ll head to the Greens and in turn the Greens will only ever side with Labour
      
      ACT & Greens act as safe blow-offs for National and Labour
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:27am
    - Paulus
      
      It is said that Cinderella took something like 400,000 former National (stupid Men as well as Women) voters at the last election.
      Cindy will do all she can to maintain those people despite upsetting her own former voters who will vote for her anyway.
      
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      February 19, 2021 10:52am
    - Jack5
      
      ACT has been as lethargic as National since the election.
      
      I’m not convinced about the quality and views of the new ACT MPs.
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:16pm
  - lifesgood
    
    I know plenty of young people i.e. 40 and under, who support National and they are just the ones I know, there must be plenty of others. ACT is showing some balls, good to see. I think a combination of Nat and ACT would be ideal.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:56am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I bet you a million billion dollars that doesn’t happen in your lifetime or mine.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:56am
  - James Stephenson
    
    It will take a few election cycles but ACT under David Seymour will take Nationals place as the other major party.
    
    I’m an ACT supporter from way back but I don’t think this is either likely or desirable. ACT should continue to be the party of uncomfortable truths that necessarily confines them to a minor party role.
    
    The Nats need a new President and an overhaul, but they will always be the “broad church” Centre-right party
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:19am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    National don’t realise that there is a political and social war raging, revolutionary in nature. Labour and the Greens do. The Nats are getting steamrolled because they are asleep at the wheel. Greater polarisation than ever has set in. As the Left go further left, the Right must go further right. If you’ve ever seen a see-saw in action, you’ll understand what I mean. Sitting benignly in the middle will have no effect whatsoever. I pointed out yesterday Brexit and Trump, but National don’t seem to be aware of either phenomenon.
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:28am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Having seen the job description for the person tasked with doling out the $55m I can confidently predict that they will be female, Maori and a formerly senior broadcaster/presenter with RNZ
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:51am
- curry4me
  
  Paulus: Well, if it accidentally shows ACT to be the real opposition, and National to be Labour lite; the NPC media will have done something useful.
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:38am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Open question: why can’t you or I show up at press conferences and ask some tricky questions of our overlords? Or can we? I assume we can’t because we would make them look very bad.
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  National atm are socialists in drag. NZ needs a Donald Trump
  
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  February 19, 2021 1:49pm
Tony Stuart

The Government has announced this morning that it is setting up a task force to disarm gangs. But yesterday in the House, Kris Faafoi, on behalf of Police Minister Poto Williams, said our streets were safer because the previous government had taken 60,000 guns off law-abiding citizens:

Nicole McKee: Can the Minister also confirm that 12 gang members on the national gang list hold a current firearms licence, up from the 11 acknowledged in August last year?

Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I can confirm that. It is an operational issue as to whether the police will take any action against them. I would note that as the legislation currently stands those on the national gang list can have their firearms licence removed, if the police believe they are not a fit and proper person and associated with a gang. That is a piece of legislation the ACT Party voted against.

Hon Stuart Nash: Is it true that under the previous term of this Government, we took over 60,000 rifles out of our community that were primarily designed to kill people and not hunt deer, possums, rabbits, or tahr?

Hon KRIS FAAFOI: I can confirm that, and that has led to New Zealanders being safer as a result of that change of legislation.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20210218_051300000/12-question-no-12-police

The other interesting question arising from that exchange; why are 12 known gang members, up from 11 last year, considered fit and proper persons by the Police to hold firearms licences?
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February 19, 2021 8:22am
- RW Capitalist
  
  or how many gun crimes were committed, since the
  “over 60,000 rifles out of our community”?
  Also how is a rifle, which is designed to “Kill deer”, but has a different designed stock and grip, ie made to LOOK like an assault rifle, any different from one that is of the stock standard variety?
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:36am
  - G152
    
    He has no idea as to firearms.
    And the increased number of gang shootings prove they got it wrong
    
    10 2
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    February 19, 2021 10:54am
- GJM
  
  When you go through the list of confiscated firearms on the police website, it shows what lie that is. .22 bunny guns and shotgunsare a huge proportion.
  A few rare, irreplaceable and valuable antique guns like MP44s were crushed.
  The pigs and pollies lying again as usual.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:16am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Hmmm, perhaps it needs a name?
  
  Strikeforce Raptor perhaps?
  
  Oh no can’t be that, that was a terrible idea according to the government.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:53am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Did any political party ever come up with a more ludicrous name for a policy proposal? Sounded like it came from an armchair warrior.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:12am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Nothing to say about Labour basically running a National policy despite having trashed it at election time Mike?
      
      Nah, thought not. No way the opposition can ever be anything but wrong huh?
      
      Sometime, take the time and see just how many Nat/ACT policies have been left to be forgotten before being announced as Labour policy.
      
      BTW Strike Force Raptor is doing good work in Aus
      
      https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/story/7133643/police-shake-up-elite-anti-bikie-squad-raptor/?cs=7574
      
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      February 19, 2021 11:40am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Tomorrows schools?
      Working groups? (that don’t work)
      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1907/S00177/300-million-on-working-groups-trail-of-broken-promises.htm
      
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      February 19, 2021 5:41pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Rumour has it they are working on an initiative called “Strikeforce Rapper”:
    
    Squads of homeboys and homegirls will secrete themselves, repel from the ceilings of gang headquarters at a pre-arranged moment, and, spitting some fresh bars off the top of their domes (ask your grandkids), will, in 4/4 time, evoke a world without crime, drugs and anti-social behaviour, thus solving the gang problem at once.
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:53am
    - oldfella
      
      Ghandi, I can just imagine those ‘cleaned up’ raps promoting a world without bitches, niggas or ho’s.
      We’ll have gang members converting on the spot.
      
      7 2
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      February 19, 2021 12:42pm
- NoFax
  
  If the really meant “disarming” as in chop their hands off, Saudi style, then I might be for it…
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:40am
- Nickc2
  
  This clearly shows the stupidity of ‘Patsy Questions’ in the Debating Chamber (one idiot from the ruling party asking another idiot from the same party) a question that can follow an agreed path to show the opposition in an unfavorable light.
  
  The ACT Party didn’t oppose the legislation per-se, they opposed it for its intention to deprive legal gun owners of their lawful property because some Aussie mental retard committed a heinous crime with a weapon our police approved of and licensed the Aussie mental retard to have AFIK.
  
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  February 19, 2021 12:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yup. Shotgun barrels were bought back at $300 a go I think. Stupid pricks only now realise that there are 87 sawnoff shotguns out there – guess who has them?
  
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  February 19, 2021 1:54pm
burt

Not content with tax payer funding the wealthy people to race around in boats while hotels are being packed with homeless people, NZ has now decided that wealthy movie makers also need tax payer assistance.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300234062/taxpayers-to-fork-out-1-billion-in-film-subsidies-over-the-next-five-years
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February 19, 2021 8:30am
- RW Capitalist
  
  But wasn’t that wrong when John Key did it.
  I have no issue with lower taxes to movie makers.
  1. Just wish it was for all of us.
  2. They still spend 100% of the costs in our economy.
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:38am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Correct; the tax breaks given to the LotR production actually produced a profit, from the GST and PAYE collected from those employed on the movies.
    
    33 1
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    February 19, 2021 8:51am
    - burt
      
      The old trickle down economics argument eh, the same one the left say is bullshit when they are in opposition.
      
      24 2
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      February 19, 2021 9:00am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      and
      Hotels
      taxis
      food
      etc etc
      
      13 2
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      February 19, 2021 9:09am
  - burt
    
    1,000 homeless in hotels under Key was a disaster, 23,000 in hotels under Labour shows they government is caring.
    
    53 1
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    February 19, 2021 9:01am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      28000 “emergency housing” grants, up from 4000 under John Key.
      
      44 2
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      February 19, 2021 9:10am
      - burt
        
        That nasty Shonky eh, 7x less caring thatn Labour.
        
        22 2
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        February 19, 2021 9:39am
    - Rich Prick
      
      You really have to turn your mind inside out to qualify as a leftie. Lose it altogether, and you get permanent membership.
      
      27 3
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      February 19, 2021 9:25am
- MCos
  
  “NZ has now decided that wealthy movie makers also need tax payer assistance.”
  This scheme was established is 2014 by a previous administration to attract film productions to NZ. Basically if we didn’t do it our film industry would die off.
  Right now we have the added advantage of being covid-19 free.
  The America’s Cup was supposed to be similar. If we didn’t front up someone else would and the whole circus would be held elsewhere. All the billionaires with their super yachts would not come here bringing oodles of cash for our economy.
  Turns out they haven’t come and the public has done their dough. To add to that the regatta has been a damp squid thus far with every race a procession & the same boat winning.
  Now even the few people that can be bothered watching can’t over the next few races unless they’ve got a spot on a spectator boat.
  The media has tried to beat it up, but where I live in South Auckland I don’t think anyone’s listening.
  
  9 4
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  February 19, 2021 9:11am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The production is off putting. The brief commentary by amateurs was no invitation to excitement to watch. Are Kelvin, Cinders or NZ on air involved?
    
    7 3
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    February 19, 2021 11:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    America’s Cup has not started yet. When the superyachts come, so will the money – self quarantine on the boats with a secret kickback to those who allow it.
    Tell me I am wrong about this – money talks
    
    7 3
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    February 19, 2021 1:59pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Previous challenger series were exciting–these are like having chewing gum for dinner.
      
      4 1
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      February 19, 2021 4:53pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  LOTR was an enormous advertisement for NZ tourism, that paid any subsidy back many many times over. Maybe the TV series will be similar.
  
  I am fine with the subsidy providing it brings overseas income to NZ that we wouldn’t otherwise get and still produces net tax income for the Govt (via income tax, GST etc). A net boost in overseas earnings for NZ is very useful.
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:00am
  - kowtow
    
    Was it though , it’s easy to make assertions about tourists coming here cos of xyz . But vcan that be proven.
    
    It’s far too easy to blow hard earned tax payer money on nice projetcs ansd claim all sorts of benefits , but are the benefits real and genuinely quantifiable.
    
    Then there’s the principle , basically these mega wealthy orgs are blackmailing govts to spend our tax dollars by saying they’ll take themselves elsewhere .
    
    I say fuck ’em.
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Income Tax is the fine you pay for being productive and useful.
This is why State Sector employees do not pay Tax
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February 19, 2021 8:33am
- Nickc2
  
  State Sector employees do not pay Tax? Please qualify that statement.
  
  12 4
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  February 19, 2021 9:24am
  - Dougal10
    
    They are funded by tax so they actually pay no tax its just a way of lowering the cost of wages to the crown.
    
    7 12
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    February 19, 2021 9:44am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I can confirm Steve is qualified to make moronic statements.
    
    10 19
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    February 19, 2021 9:58am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Tax on a taxpayer-funded income is hardly tax though. It’s just an internal merry-go-round of productive people’s money. Your productivity must be through the floor, given your constant activity as a right-wing blogger.
      
      6 2
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      February 19, 2021 12:17pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      People like Mike will never understand because they are State Sector Employees. They think the Tax (numbers on paper)they pay ends up paying their salaries.
      Without the Private Sector Net Taxpayer they will run out of ‘other people’s money’
      
      8 3
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      February 19, 2021 2:02pm
      - MCos
        
        Don’t be a wanker, SteveO.
        You are saying that the anyone not engaged in productive work should be thanking those that are because if it wasn’t for them they wouldn’t get paid?
        I have sister who spent fifty years as nurse helping sick people back to health. Never produced a thing in all those years except some kids, one of whom is a dairy farm. He produces milk, or his cows did until they were all wiped out by M. Bovis. The socialist government gave him a whole lot of money and now he’s away again.
        They both pay tax. My sister’s tax helped him get through a sticky patch.
        BTW
        She has a daughter who’s a school teacher. I suppose she’s non productive too?
        
        4 7
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        February 19, 2021 2:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    see my reply to Mike
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:03pm
Yvette

‘Morally cowardice’ — Pike River recovery effort hasn’t gone far enough, some victims’ families say …
The crucial piece of evidence, the underground fan believed to be the ignition source for the first explosion, sits behind the roof fall. [1]

If the fan was the source of ignition, would criminal charges be bought against it designers, constructors, installers or those responsible for its maintenance.
But also to the mind of an utter amateur, a point of ignitions would surely have to ignite an air/methane mixture that was explodable – so is monitoring also an area of criminal oversight: monitor installation, functioning and maintenance, even control room connection to make readings usable, or drainage of gas, or the bypassing of sensors by some workers where there was the constant gas tripping of some machines (Royal Commission report)

Also, would not the gas/air mixture factors, in any examination of the mine, be of conditions as they now exist: wrecked equipment with 10 years of decay, rather than in the condition just prior to the explosion and an atmosphere which can not now be replicated to match the moment before ignition. Most “evidence” from any viewpoint even within the mine itself, must surely still be supposition.

Continuous monitoring of methane levels is essential to understanding the underground atmosphere and trends. Pike installed fixed sensors that reported to the control room, but at the time of the explosion there were too few and they were not well sited. There were only four fixed sensors in return air. One in the hydro panel reported to the operator of the water jet, and another was not functional. Sensors were also located at the bottom and near the top of the ventilation shaft. The bottom one was broken for 11 weeks before the explosion and the other was unreliable and could not read above 2.96% methane. There were no fixed sensors reporting to the surface from the working areas of the mine inbye of the main fan. – Royal Commission report

How would you establish the responsibility of any one in relation to any of those faults and the contribution they may have made to creating a gas/air mixture that exploded – as well as charging anyone in relation to the fan itself if it was the actual source of ignition?

And how many of those would be miners already entombed in the mine itself and unable to defend themselves?

Note : A Stuff item [2] details the recovery from the drift of a large chunk of metal understood to be a piece of the main ventilation fan. It weighs about a tonne and is about 3 metres long. It would appear from diagrams that this item traversed a short shaft to hit the drift wall at an angle greater than 90˚ to that wall, so had to be blown around that obtuse angle and down the drift by an explosive force from the mine itself already coming down the other up-side of the drift. This may be “evidence” in electrical engineer Richard Healey’s theories, but it is surely also evidence to the relocation and disarray of material inside the mine. What reconstruction of the site would be required to provide any useful and accurate evidence? And would equipment need to be extracted and reassembled for such an examination.

So possible expense to re-enter the mine itself, expense to extract and reassemble portions of equipment, cost of a trial?
No.
Pike River RIP.

[1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/morally-cowardice-pike-river-recovery-effort-hasnt-gone-far-enough-some-victims-families-say
[2] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123500008/crucial-evidence-recovered-from-pike-river-mine-drift
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February 19, 2021 8:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  One of the miners reported that flames regularly used to break out from the coal face:
  
  Brent Foster an Australian miner who has worked at Pike River before told 60 Minutes he saw flames break out at the coalface and that a procedure called ‘stone dusting’ – applying lime to surfaces to control coal dust – was not done enough at the mine.
  
  The flames Mr Foster saw are known in the industry as ‘ignitions’ and are treated extremely seriously.
  
  Pike River Coal has confirms the fire was part of a series of ignitions and a number of remedial actions were taken, in consultation with the mines inspector.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/pike-river-inquiry-60-mins-raises-big-issues–epmu-2010121711
  
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  February 19, 2021 8:55am
- hullkiwi
  
  I watched One News last night, during which Monk and another relative were interviewed. During the course of the said interview the comment was passed by Monk’s friend, that he was very angry “that they were not prepared to go further into the mine, because they were covering up a homicide enquiry”. At which point, I flipped and started shouting abuse at the TV.
  
  1. On what basis does someone with no evidence, have the right to level such an accusation; and
  2. What sort of journalism are we getting for our taxpayer funded state TV company, that the useless interviewer did not question the comment, and the programme editor allowed the comment to go to air?
  
  Calling that journalism is an insult to any journalists with any integrity left in this country. But I somehow doubt there any proper journalists left in NZ.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:19am
  - Frank the tank
    
    “I watched One News last night……”
    
    And right there is your issue.
    
    Keeping up with the Kardashians is a better source for information than OneWokeNews.
    
    12 2
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    February 19, 2021 11:31am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Playschool TV1 news is bad for your health
    
    6 2
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    February 19, 2021 2:04pm
  - virtualmark
    
    I don’t often catch the TV News, but I saw the same piece yesterday, and like you started yelling at the TV.
    
    What TV news is missing is real journalists who will put the question back hard on the Monks of this world. What would an Ian Fraser have said in that interview? “Mr Monk, what evidence do you have that there was a homicide? And what evidence do you have of a cover-up?” etc etc.
    
    Instead all we get is pretty faces made-for-TV who have no instinct for the hard questions.
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:18pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      $110M says you can not ask hard questions
      
      7 2
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      February 19, 2021 2:51pm
Frank the tank

What soft toy is the Blairite going to ensure gets to its rightful owner today?
27 4
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February 19, 2021 8:42am
- Tall Man
  
  Robbo?
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:33am
RW Capitalist

Period poverty the latest govt. overblown, over hyped, response to a lack of parental responsibility issue.
How much do these parents spend on ciggies,booze, fancy clothes and entertainment on themselves and their families?
They have KNOW for around 12yrs, that this little girl, is going to NEED these products.
HOW DARE they send this little girl to school without them.
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February 19, 2021 8:43am
- Ian Boag
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  How much do these parents spend on ciggies,booze, fancy clothes and entertainment on themselves and their families?
  
  I don’t know – sounds like do you don’t either. Might be someone on KB with a bit of hard data I suppose ?
  
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  December 19, 2020 9:12am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    2 things
    It’s a budgeting QUESTION.
    I do read that I mentioned the word all lefties hate..
    R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y.
    
    36 6
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    February 19, 2021 9:20am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Might also ask how much they spend on rent, food, clothes, keeping the car on the road, doctor’s visits and all that …
      
      It still sounds like you don’t know the answer to your question or where to find it. I don’t know the answer to my question either.
      
      I gather that it this could cost up to $8m per year. Maybe it could be just handed out in cases of need?
      
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      February 19, 2021 9:31am
      - lifesgood
        
        If you can’t afford kids don’t have them. Very simple.
        
        29 4
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        February 19, 2021 9:59am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Other necessities…..
        I ASKED about luxury items
        ciggies
        booze
        Takeaways
        etc
        Easily exchanged for sanitary items for their girls.
        They had 12yrs notice, to understand and budget for, these expenses.
        
        23 2
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        February 19, 2021 10:01am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        another $8mill of taxpayer money.
        PSST Grant Robertson can’t even count, so I expect they have again under estimated the cost.
        PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY.
        
        19 2
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        February 19, 2021 10:03am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @life
        
        And if you end up with kids you can’t afford (feckless or unlucky or divorced or widowed) the kids can suffer for it. Also very simple.
        
        I wish I saw the world as clearly as you do …
        
        2 22
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        February 19, 2021 10:21am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        There’s a reason that there are more fast-food outlets in poorer communities* and businesses go where the demand it. It’s an obvious example of poor budgetary choices.
        
        That KFC Bargain Bucket is clearly of a higher priority than the $3 a packet of tampons once a month costs.
        
        Seriously, too poor to find 10c a day? BS
        
        *and in many case are more expensive than the equivalent in better-off communities: I know of a specific takeaway in Mangere that prices its takeaway meals at 40-50% higher than the equivalent in Titirangi. I would imagine its competitors are broadly in alignment
        
        9 2
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        February 19, 2021 11:52am
      - namron
        
        Everyone’s life is a never-ending collection of choices.
        When it comes to money, it is very evident some people’s highest priorities are not their highest needs This Govt “sympathetic payments” just makes the problem worse!
        Half the things that some people call “problems” aren’t, – they are self-imposed difficulties caused by their unwise spending.
        
        12 1
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        February 19, 2021 12:25pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I recall young men getting teased because they went to intermediate school with the first flush of whiskers. Razors are bloody expensive for young fellas, so is the Government going to fund them as well?
  
  51 2
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  February 19, 2021 8:48am
  - Jimbob
    
    I know someone in the wholesale sector, they say batteries and razors are cheap as chips, retailers rack up the prices.
    
    15 1
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    February 19, 2021 9:43am
  - MCos
    
    Hair on your face is just a bit different from mensuration. While the provision of sanitary pads/tampons is talked about here as a ‘poverty’ issue it’s clearly a lot more than that for some young women.
    
    6 18
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    February 19, 2021 9:54am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh, I’d say that hair on your face is quite a bit different from the science of measurement.
      
      9 12
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      February 19, 2021 10:14am
    - hullkiwi
      
      MCos yes, but in my day at school, you could either make sure you kept your face fur under control, or we we had a visit to the Assoc Principal and he “gave us a choice” of shave it off, or our backsides felt his golf swing with the cane. That was the 1970s for you.
      
      15 3
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      February 19, 2021 10:17am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, the policy is sexist, put in place by a feminist-centric government. Women in past generations seemed to have coped in economic conditions far worse than ours. If the government were rolling out a policy that gave free things to males there’d be an outcry and accusations of misogyny. Oh, and nothing is free. The policy will cost us $25 million over 3 years. It’s not like the country is skint already after the virus, right? To be wasting money on this.
    
    I wonder if trans-females will be supplied as well? I am betting so, in this loony tune world.
    
    18 3
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    February 19, 2021 10:41am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    And old people with incontinence issues should get free nappies too? What about babies?
    
    15 1
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    February 19, 2021 12:51pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I got the strap for having a bumfluff moustache.
    
    8 2
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    February 19, 2021 2:06pm
- artemisia
  
  $2 for a pack of 20 sanitary pads. For school pupils one pack a month usually.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:07am
- Flossie
  
  I do wonder if the reason so many young ladies skip school really is am inability to fund the required products, or perhaps they just don’t feel up to par a couple of days a month. I know when I was a high schoolgirl there were many days when I’d have preferred a sickie but my mother said to get over myself as it was just a normal part of womanhood. And the difficulties with the particular products we had to deal with back then makes what’s available to today a walk in the park.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:22am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And the difficulties with the particular products we had to deal with back then makes what’s available to today a walk in the park.
    
    Yee Gods…. biking 7km home with a damp pad…chaff, chaff, chaff.
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:38am
    - Flossie
      
      Belts and safety pins….and no disposal bins in the toilets…
      
      9 0
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      February 19, 2021 12:17pm
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      Either that’s a rare typo or grain husks and strips of aluminium foil had more varied uses than dreamed of in my philosophy.
      
      5 0
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      February 19, 2021 4:36pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Good spotting!
        
        3 0
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        February 19, 2021 4:48pm
- Rich Prick
  
  At seven cents a pop, they will struggle to sell this new gender biased “poverty” to us. But let’s watch them try.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:27am
  - curry4me
    
    Rich Prick: I’m sure many in the Third World suffering actual poverty would like to swap places with those suffering ‘poverty’ in NuZuela.
    
    8 2
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    February 19, 2021 11:45am
- oldfella
  
  Do the kids suffering period poverty have cell phones? Just wondering about family budgeting priorities.
  
  13 1
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  February 19, 2021 12:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

What are folks drinking in Wellington?

A couple of councillors wanted to spend $170M on cycle pathways.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/124292325/wellington-city-council-longterm-plan-meeting-a-shambles-and-almost-incomprehensible
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February 19, 2021 8:44am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  That’s what you get when you elect rampant lefties onto councils.
  
  40 1
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  February 19, 2021 8:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    They don’t seem too keen on libraries either..
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124286245/lets-get-wellington-amending–confusion-and-chaos-as-wellington-mayor-andy-foster-tables-late-changes-to-10year-plan
    
    22 2
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    February 19, 2021 9:02am
    - burt
      
      The left have always been into burning books, their ideology always fails so they need to constantly re-write history.
      
      23 3
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      February 19, 2021 9:10am
    - artemisia
      
      One of the proposals is to cut back acquisitions by a mill a year. Libraries can save heaps by beefing up the downloadables and lending / giving cheap tablets and support to those without, mainly older people. No need to store or catalogue downloads, big saving there, and libraries only pay for what is borrowed. (More complicated than that but similar.)
      
      Focus on often requested and local paper material.
      
      Wellington currently has a central store to provide reserves to any branch (it is fast and efficient) and 3 CBD locations. Why not continue?
      
      13 1
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      February 19, 2021 9:15am
    - SB2
      
      MW and others, who supported Andy Foster’s Mayoral campaign on KB and elsewhere?
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405645/sir-peter-jackson-behind-30-000-for-wellington-mayor-s-campaign
      
      0 20
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      February 19, 2021 11:06am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        And why would I be giving a stuffy poo about Peter Jackson steffieboy?
        
        and what the heck has that got to do with yesterday’s Council meeting?
        
        Trolling or harassing, eh?
        
        14 1
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        February 19, 2021 1:47pm
      - SB2
        
        MW, Trolling or harassing, eh?
        
        Neither! Merely pointing out an inconsistency by those who back then supported Andy Foster’s Mayoral race that included many on KB.
        
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        February 19, 2021 2:18pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Well it wasn’t me who supported Andy Foster, so you can FUCK OFF attaching shitty remarks to me that have nothing to do with me.
        
        Go and cast your slime elsewhere.
        
        12 0
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        February 19, 2021 3:29pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    And have even more rampant lefties reporting on it. Yes it was shambolic but at least they hacked out some 10s or 100s of millions, and I greatly enjoyed hearing the Mayor state “You’re deluding yourself, and you’re not telling the truth to the community. You won’t be able to do it. It won’t happen,” he told the two councillors.
    
    At another point, he said it “feels like there are people in parallel universes where money grows on trees and everybody’s going to be happy when you take it away from them”.
    
    He got it completely wrong with Shelly Bay but in rebuking the incompetent ideologues Tamatha Paul and Jill Day has was bang on the (lack of) money.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:09am
I remember when

‘The ducks are gone.’
Usually at this time of the year the evening sky used to be alive with ducks heading out to the grain harvesting fields.
Now they reflect the changing farming patterns as I haven’t seen a single duck in flight this year.
What has happened to the barley contracts.
14 1
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February 19, 2021 8:54am
- Tall Man
  
  The geese have already been in 😉
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:31am
nathie

@MW 8.44am (sorry unable to delete and shift reply to your post).

Flawed thinking courtesy of the usual three muppets – Tamatha Paul, Jill Day and Fleur Fitzsimons.

Wellington and WCC is screwed whilst these deluded individuals force their “progressive/green” agendas down the throats of Wellingtonians.

But what’s the bet Wellingtonians will not only vote them back in in 2022 but they will also vote one of them in as Mayor?

John Key was right, Wellington is stuffed!
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February 19, 2021 8:59am
- hullkiwi
  
  And it will remained stuffed while they are aided and abetted by Central Govt funding from NZTA.
  
  NZ’s infrastructure deficit is not helped when resources are poured into projects that may “aid” community well being (debatable) but are not priorities (e.g. Wellington’s water and sewerage network).
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:22am
  - oldfella
    
    HK, I don’t blame NZTA. I blame Waka Kotahi.
    
    13 1
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    February 19, 2021 12:52pm
- Tall Man
  
  “Wellington is stuffed!”
  
  No more than anywhere else it would seem.
  
  7 1
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  February 19, 2021 10:31am
cas

Does anyone know how much of that whopping payout for Kyle Jamieson does he get to keep? Are there agents fees, NZ Cricket have a cut on the way? Well deserved though, he is a class act.
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February 19, 2021 9:02am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I don’t believe there’s a cut to NZC, his agent will no doubt get a slice but the lion’s share is his to keep.
  
  6 0
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  February 19, 2021 10:10am
  - Ian Boag
    
    As an NZ resident he is taxed on world income …
    
    7 1
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    February 19, 2021 10:38am
    - Master Mariner
      
      So am I Ian,
      The trouble being I cant get in.
      So do i still have an obligation to pay tax ?
      Fair question actually?
      When you have PM on TV saying they restricting travel into NZ through Limited MIQ places?
      
      9 0
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      February 19, 2021 12:12pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  How long is the contract for. I know the IPL is a couple of months in duration, but is he contracted for a number of years?
  
  5 2
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  February 19, 2021 10:46am
- Frank the tank
  
  It is pro-rated in regards to games played as well therefore like a lot before him the payout is significantly less than this.
  
  7 1
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  February 19, 2021 11:33am
I remember when

“More than three million Texans are still without power, stuck heating their homes with unsafe methods like gas stoves and generators while watching as icicles form on indoor ceiling fans.”
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February 19, 2021 9:05am
I remember when

Regardless of the outcome of the Facebook/Australian Government dispute there is a problem the world will need to confront.
Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Ali Baba and many others of the global giants are bigger than many countries in terms of income.
At what stage do they become pseudo governments deciding how much control elected (or other) governments have.
Was this the start of the ‘war’.
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February 19, 2021 9:12am
- hullkiwi
  
  IRW, that has been a problem for most of the period post WWII, any number of corporations have had economic clout far greater than any number of countries (including NZ), it is not just the internet media and other media giants. Why do you think politicians have not wanted to deal with the issue of multinationals and the amounts of corporation tax they do (or dont) pay in the countries they operate in?
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:02am
Frankie Lee

So we’re all supposed to learn te reo, we just can’t be any good at it, apparently…..

https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/17-02-2021/some-thoughts-about-pakeha-learning-and-speaking-te-reo-maori/#.YC7KsZ9utgE.link
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February 19, 2021 9:16am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Can’t wait till the honkies and the Chinese out perform the natives in te reo assessments.
  
  16 2
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  February 19, 2021 12:01pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Speaking of dead languages, when are they going to make Latin compulsory in schools again?
    
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    February 19, 2021 12:54pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Latin will never die. It’s still more relevant the The Reo ever will be, particularly if one is a botanist for instance, or even just someone who speaks English. ‘Compulsus’ is the root of ‘compulsory’, for example.
      
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      February 19, 2021 1:48pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        There is already pressure going on to have all new species in NZ given Māori taxonomic nomenclature as opposed to just a Māori common name
        
        The use of the Māori language in species nomenclature
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212682113000383
        
        and https://www.newsroom.co.nz/te-reo-in-taxonomy
        
        But it’s not as if our taxonomists haven’t been using Māori epithets in a species name for yonks….
        
        We identified 1288 different taxonomic epithets containing te reo or ta re, with variability in frequency across different branches of the tree of life
        https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337670597_Using_te_reo_Maori_and_ta_re_Moriori_in_taxonomy
        
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        February 19, 2021 3:25pm
      - Bluegrass
        
        Indeed. And, inter alia, agricola (farmer) > agriculture; femina (woman) > feminine; puer (boy) > puerile; pulcher (beautiful) > pulchritude; etc et cetera…
        
        And if a native English-speaker has a reasonable knowledge of Latin grammar then it is extremely useful as a tool for learning Romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian) and German – especially German object-verb word order.
        
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        February 19, 2021 4:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        Would the Woke give us Pidgin taxonomy?
        
        Genus or genera in Latin; species in Latin, English, or perhaps even in Maori; then Maori name?
        
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        February 19, 2021 9:33pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Yes please. Makes grasping and understanding of scientific and medical terms so much better…
      
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      February 19, 2021 2:18pm
- oldfella
  
  Frankie, I spotted this headline in today’s BOP Times online.
  
  “Planned retirement village, residential development, would ‘dishonour and disrespect’ cultural land, says iwi.”
  
  Okay, makes sense to me. Enough English in that headline for someone like me who doesn’t speak Maori. But then I got to paragraph two…
  
  “At the final day of the hearing into the granting of a resource consent for a residential subdivision next to an ancient urupa in Whakatane, tangata whenua were adamant they would not take part in any accidental discovery protocol if koiwi (bones) were found during development – to do so would sever their whakapapa to the land and make a mockery of their role as kaitiaki, they said.”
  
  Why, oh why do English language news outlets do this? What is kaitaki? What’s whakapapa? (I figured out urupa from the sign).
  I stopped reading it this morning at this point. And suspect many others did the same. If they won’t treat me with enough respect to make the story easily understood by the majority of their readers, without referring to a Maori dictionary, I’m not interested.
  Another own goal by a MSM outlet that is so woke it may well end up broke, even with generous Labour party handouts.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/124297446/planned-retirement-village-residential-development-would-dishonour-and-disrespect-cultural-land-says-iwi
  
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  February 19, 2021 12:59pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Saying that moving bones severs their ties to the land is rubbish.
    They can SAY that, but the Maori practiced secondary burial traditionally. And in the late 19th century many bones were moved by Waikato to the current Taupiri cemetary. I have seen human remains recovered by Maori and buried elsewher, and I know this is not uncommon (as exposed by erosion).
    It is just Brownmail – seeking koha/chequebook spirituality at best or just a way to veto it at worst. They should be honest…… They either dont want the development, or else their palms havent been greased.
    To say Maori can’t (reverently) remove bones to another location, is pure rot.
    
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    February 19, 2021 3:53pm
  - Nickc2
    
    It will only get worse with compulsory Maori Wards.
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:43pm
artemisia

What’s up at HUD. Housing is top of the pops right now yet their last monthly public housing report is last November. MONTHLY. Should not take the best part of 3 months to produce a monthly report.

Last quarterly report was September, not so bad but still seriously slow.
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February 19, 2021 9:18am
Maggie Pie

Just dropped my partner into his office then I took a drive up Queen Street to make sure I still hate the general public.
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February 19, 2021 9:22am
- Tony Stuart
  
  And?
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Goodness, you sound like a politician.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:26am
- Frank the tank
  
  Remember the vast majority of them voted for the Blairite
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:37am
- fernglas
  
  A drive up Queen Street makes you hate the Council traffic planners, bus drivers, the homeless, engineering companies and the bastard who gets $1 royalties on fluorescent cones well before you get to the general public
  
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  February 19, 2021 12:00pm
MCos

Texas can’t cope with particularly bad weather. https://twitter.com/danrather/status/1362199270921703424?s=21
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February 19, 2021 9:23am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Yes it is amazing what happens when you decide to use wind and solar as you main generation and winter happens.
  What the clowns in politics don’t get is wind and solar can supliment a power grid but can never be base load power, we are about to find this out thanks to the PM but she won’t be here to see the results as she will be “needed by the world” #JacindaforQueen
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:41am
  - SB2
    
    Thats untrue. Renewables contribute only a small amount to the Texas grid.
    
    Fossil fuel plants are also hobbled by the extreme weather event with water freezing and natural gas pipes gas also affected..
    
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    February 19, 2021 10:59am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Did you read that off AOC’s twitter feed did you?
      
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      February 19, 2021 11:34am
      - virtualmark
        
        Since when has AOC set Texas’ energy policy????
        
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        February 19, 2021 2:21pm
    - alloytoo
      
      “Mostly false”
      
      While is is true that in absolute terms traditional generation lost more than renewables. Renewables as a percentage of their percentage capacity lost far more.
      
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      February 19, 2021 12:12pm
    - Colville
      
      Natural gas freezes at approx -150C IIRC ….
      
      So I dont think that is the problem.
      
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      February 19, 2021 12:17pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Yep expands when temps rise.
        
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        February 19, 2021 12:48pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Exactly Colvile.
        -160 C for LNG ( Liquified Natural Gas). This is how they carry the volume by tanker to Market.
        
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        February 19, 2021 3:05pm
  - MCos
    
    Texas generates minimal electricity from wind.
    There’s a couple of problems, from what I understand. Unlike everywhere else in the US, except presumably Alaska & Hawaii, they are not hooked into a national grid. So if the local supply turns to custard they’re on their on.
    Their system is low cost to keep charges down. Obviously it’s not capable of coping with unusually cold weather.
    Who tried to fob it off onto wind turbines? The GOP governor who happens to be the third Republican in a row to hold that position for 26yrs going back to G W Bush.
    Not only that one of the two Republican senators, Ted Cruz, skipped off to Mexico until he was rumbled and came back early with his tail between his legs.
    The state is controlled by Republicans.
    
    Wind generation works just fine in much colder locations like the Antarctic. Texas went for the lite version.
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:27am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Wait till the price of Oil and Gas through the roof, Not too long away I’m guessing and people struggling to Fill there car due too costs.
    
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    February 19, 2021 12:16pm
    - oldfella
      
      MM, thank goodness we’re still exploiting our own oil and gas reserves as well as aggressively drilling for more.
      Oh, wait…
      
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      February 19, 2021 1:03pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Is it true that Marsden Point are considering a halt to refining and importing [finished] petroleum?
      
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      February 19, 2021 2:21pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Yes my understanding.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124266092/plan-to-quit-refining-at-marsden-point-could-happen-next-year
        ‘’I think at a point in time you would always be looking at this … but it takes a number of years on the Government’s forecasts, on the Climate Change Commission forecasts, for current fuel demand to shift significantly.’’
        
        This from same article and is more concerning true today than ever.
        
        Refinery closures have become common overseas, but Marsden Point is New Zealand’s only fuel refinery and was considered a strategic asset when it was set up 50 years ago.
        
        FWIW, i currently work in OIL and Gas and off coast of Myanmar.
        
        Investments in Oil and Gas ( Hence new fields) are in arears at least a decade. Ie Its really going to hit home soon with a huge price spike.
        
        We rely to heavily on overseas and we have seen with COVId and trade practices everyone is scrambling to keep what they have.
        
        Marsden Point is a Strategic Asset that should never been Privitised.
        
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        February 19, 2021 3:14pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Thx for the answer/clarification. Slightly scary prospect…
        
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        February 19, 2021 5:20pm
- Andrei
  
  Apprantly the “renewables” failed and as the natural gas generators kicked in to make up the shortfall they started to fail too as the gas pressures in the lines dropped, not only due to the demand but the further cooling as the gas expands
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:42am
- Scott
  
  Yes it’s amazing that Texas has embraced green energy and now the heaters don’t work. Solar power is no good. Wind power is no good. A state like Texas with huge reserves of oil and gas is freezing because they reliant on green energy.
  Take note fellow citizens of the peoples socialist Republic of aotearoa. This is your future! If James Shaw has his way that is.
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:09am
  - MCos
    
    A slightly more technical summary of the problems Texas is faces electricity wise.
    https://www.statista.com/chart/24202/texas-energy-mix-by-fuel-type/
    
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    February 19, 2021 1:14pm
I remember when

“Article on an Antipodean Albatross bred on Pitt Island in the Chathams in TV News last night.
This is 700 kms north of the Antipodes Island their main breeding site.
Fortunately, the parents don’t appear to be aware of global warming.’
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February 19, 2021 9:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Up until the 1990s this bird was considered to be a wandering albatross.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipodean_albatross
  
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  February 19, 2021 12:06pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Absolutely, Very little difference between great wandering and royal Albatross.
    Depends on Genetics and DNA etc but too untrained eye the same.
    Thats the main arguments with a Maui and Hector Dolphin, Only DNA can identify,
    see the problem here and the loopy greens.
    New snails species,
    The list can go on.
    
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    February 19, 2021 12:24pm
  - I remember when
    
    Yes. It is mentioned as being a sub species of the wandering albatross.
    The orange-fronted parakeet has been a species much debated as to whether it is a stand alone species.
    It has been reclassified several times.
    
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    February 19, 2021 1:13pm
Maggie Pie

And so it came to pass…..

https://twitter.com/lienomail/status/1316481562326769664
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February 19, 2021 9:35am
- SB2
  
  MP , Rosie Smith tweets her response ,
  
  Rosie Smith
  @LostPatriot2020
  Replying to
  @lienomail
  And yet despite all that, I still trust him more than Trump! Worth giving him a chance really – good on Trump for setting such a low bar!
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:00am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    More whataboutism.
    And who is Rosie Smith, other than someone you cherry pick?
    
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    February 19, 2021 4:00pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Isn’t that a type of apple?
      
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      February 19, 2021 8:36pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Yep, painful and as it now transpires, scary . . .
  
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  February 19, 2021 12:29pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  I wouldn’t even call that a stream of consciousness, since he doesnt seem to be coherent. Doesnt even finish one though before starting another.
  Painful. Worse than putting a toddler on the spot.
  
  Reads from a teleprompter OK from what I have seen though.
  
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  February 19, 2021 3:59pm
Greg Ettridge

Maggie Pie, It was lucky he didn’t have to go hunting in his pockets for his pen, it would have just been more of the same, how could anyone let alone millions vote this person and his power base in.
But just look around the world, people love voting for what will come back to haunt them for years.
People flush stability for irrationality, maybe they belief in tooth fairies putting the world right and food on the table.
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February 19, 2021 9:58am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Oh gawd yes Greg – I saw him trying to hide that Mont Blanc in his jacket. How embarrassing! TBH, I thought he was trying to steal it. Just like he stole the election 🙁
  
  MAGA2024
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:09am
  - SB2
    
    MAGA2024?
    
    Dream on,
    
    https://ktla.com/news/politics/trump-releases-statement-criticizing-political-hack-mcconnell-as-gop-divide-deepens-post-impeachment/
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:01am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Show us on this doll where your TDS hurts the most
      
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      February 19, 2021 2:28pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    MAGA 2024. Already in the back window of my Landcruiser. So is ‘Hillary for Prison 2021’
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:27pm
Jack5

Wellington crime the worst seen in 20 years.

A chance for National. Send for Bridges, the ex-prosecutor.

Oh, that’s right …

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/124259501/worst-ive-seen-in-20-years-hospitality-workers-grapple-with-crime-in-central-city
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February 19, 2021 9:58am
Tony Stuart

NASA’s Perseverance Rover has just touched down on Mars, after a seven-month journey. It may not have quite the same significance as the first manned moon landing in 1969, but it’s a big day for space exploration. Well done NASA!
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February 19, 2021 10:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s a busy time at Mars. The UAE’s first Mars probe and a Chinese probe just entered Mars orbit last week, with the Chinese mission to land a rover later in the year.
  
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  February 19, 2021 10:27am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Don’t you know there is an international convention “Who stole the ~~Man~~ Non-Binary person in the Moon?” being held there ?
    
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    February 19, 2021 11:16am
  - virtualmark
    
    The timing is all to do with where Earth & Mars are in their orbits.
    
    Once every 25 months the orbits of Earth and Mars line up for what’s called the “least energy trajectory”. That’s why you’re seeing this flurry of UAE, Chinese and US landers right now.
    
    It’s also an interesting wrinkle for Elon Musk’s pants to colonise Mars. It’s not a trip where we can have a flight every week … more like lots of flight in one week, then none for two more years.
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:26pm
    - virtualmark
      
      *plans* not *pants*. Bloody auto-correct.
      
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      February 19, 2021 3:05pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Joy, strict Islamists and the CCP playing about in space too.
    
    UAE should go to the moon, and look for the split mark/joint where it was separated. A miracle performed by Muhammed (PBUH).
    …Muslim scholars even search images from Nasa for the scars, and discussed how it proven via the Hadith.
    https://questionsonislam.com/article/miracle-splitting-moon-0
    ““Yes! We also did see the moon in that state! We saw the moon as split! They informed that the moon was split. Among the people who came from everywhere and seen the moon split, there was no one who had not informed them about it.”
    
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    February 19, 2021 4:10pm
- Rich Prick
  
  And I bet it’s carrying a billion dollars in aid. Just in case.
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:31am
- curry4me
  
  Tony Stuart: That’s good news. I’m sure someone will have to put a man on Mars, ust to satisfy ego. With that done, they can concentrste oon useing robots. They don’t need life support systems. So the missions would be cheaper.
  
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  February 19, 2021 11:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Did Catherine Delahunty (ex Minister for Mars) give a speech?
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:30pm
Maggie Pie

A girl from tennis retweets…..

HOMOFOBIC ?

https://twitter.com/TheAliceSmith/status/1362355652924997632
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February 19, 2021 10:16am
Philview

I was amused by the editorial in the ODT.
“the media is vital, giving voice to coherent criticism and providing amplification to alternative expert views. This keeps the Government under healthy pressure to work through its policies vigorously and to defend them publicly.”
Then of course goes on to commend the Government for being so trustworthy.

Surely, the editor doesn’t believe the ODT holds the Government to account. Which media are we talking about. The TVNZ news team, RNZ, TV3 News?

https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/trust-and-politicians-covid-era
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February 19, 2021 10:27am
I remember when

Who are the left going to blame when all the old white men (automatically branded right wing) are no longer around.
Will the media be more informative, honest and investigative once all old white male reporters/commentators are gone? Especially the ones that know that being liked is not always the result when you question the majority view. That presenting the facts is their job no matter how unpopular the outcome.
Will all the systemic racism, supposed results of white colonialism, micro aggression, anti-gay, misogyny, lack of empathy for the disadvantaged disappear.
Imagine a world with all the same problems and no-one that can be blamed for them.
No-one the left can mention as the reason for the behaviour and have everyone says ‘Yes it’s their fault.’
A lot of the white right-wing supposed perpetrators are no longer with us – have the problems disappeared?
What will happen if/when the european systems of justice and government are superseded?
Will there be a world of perfect harmony and agreement?
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February 19, 2021 11:01am
graham

Hmm … is it just me, or has anybody else noticed that there appear to be different standards in the news reporting around the Covid vaccinations?

If you’re a white New Zealander and express reservations about getting the jab, you’re an anti-vaxxer, a loony, selfish, irrational, and goodness knows what else.

If you’re Maori and express reservations about getting the jab, you’re “vaccine hesitant”, anxious, and mistrustful of a health system which is biased against Maori.

Just saying …
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February 19, 2021 11:05am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brSHjHC3eCs

Mitt Romney May End up Splitting the Republican Party Into Two.

The Republicans have realised that without Donald Trump GOP will lose all its support So they are rallying behind him once again But this time, things should be different and the Republican Party must be united And it does not help if people like Pierre Delecto [aka Mitt Romney] continue to have a free run in the party
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February 19, 2021 11:29am
- virtualmark
  
  Why is it Mitt Romney’s fault, and not Donald Trump’s?
  
  Basically the GOP has a (legacy) conservative faction, and a Foxlandia faction. Trump dominates the Foxlandia faction. But no one really leads the conservative faction. Romney is in there, McCain was in there, McConnell’s (cold dark) heart belongs there but really he’s in love with power more than policy.
  
  The Foxlandia faction have been very successful at turning away many of the classical conservative voters (suburbanites, soccer Moms etc) and riling up their Foxlandia voter base. So they dominate the GOP’s ability to get out the vote, and the conservative faction have to reckon with how much they’re prepared to compromise towards Foxlandia in order to get the votes to win an election. But the Foxlandia faction is only about 25%-30% of the electorate, so as it sheds the conservative voters it’s having to do more and more extreme things (gerrymandering, voter suppression, insurrections) in order to try and retain/win power.
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:29pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Boomer take. The Republicans are never winning anything ever again unless Trump himself runs or someone like Trump with his policies run. There is a reason Romney and McCain, for instance, never won shit, and it’s because no one listens to or wants what they are proposing (which is essentially indistinguishable from what the Dems propose).
    
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    February 19, 2021 3:15pm
  - curry4me
    
    virtualmark: With someone like Pierre Delecto [aka Mitt Romney] running in 2016, HC would be in the Whitehouse. And it’d have been business as usual with the uni party. Most Reupblicans want President Trump to run again in 2024. They also want him to galvanize the opposition in the mid-terms.
    
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    February 19, 2021 9:23pm
    - virtualmark
      
      The Foxlandia faction dominates today’s GOP, and since Trump is the Fuhrer of their faction then yes “Most Republicans want President Trump to run again in 2024”.
      
      But Trump managed to lose the House, lose the Presidency and lose the Senate. He is a proven loser. As much as you like him I just don’t see him winning in 2024. The Foxlandia faction isn’t big enough to win an election on its own, but it’s toxic to rest of the electorate.
      
      Added to which, by 2024 Trump will be some combination of bankrupt, in jail, and/or gaga (did you see the comments this week that Bannon thought Trump had dementia? I believe he does).
      
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      February 20, 2021 9:37am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpLF8Szg7gQ

Cuomo’s New York Nursing Home Covid Cover Up | America Uncovered.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has been caught misrepresenting the number of nursing home deaths in New York State. The massive cover up has led to an FBI investigation. And even more amazingly, it kind of makes New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio look good in comparison. [Will the Emmy be withdrawn if he is
found guilty of man slaughter?]
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February 19, 2021 11:30am
Tony

So high levels of lead has been found in the blood of people exposed to the toxic water in Dunedin.

Faulty lead joints in pipes has been raised as a possible cause.

It beggars belief that lead joints would ever have been installed in modern times (i.e. the last 70 or so years), especially with what we know about lead plumbing and the effect on the Romans.

And it is still in use in Christchurch:
https://ccc.govt.nz/services/water-and-drainage/water-supply/about-the-water-supply/lead-jointed-pipes
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February 19, 2021 11:44am
Brian McDonald

Caught up with the Ayesha Verrall interview by Duncan Garner – what a find for Labour. She got across more about the latest outbreak than several interviews with the normal spokespeople did this week.
I think Garner missed a few important questions as he seemed to be star-struck or something, or maybe it was a relief.
I would have liked to know about the mutation process and when the virus was said to the 1.1.7 strain but not identical to other cases found here if it in fact could be a mutation that recently occurred within NZ.
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February 19, 2021 12:20pm
- Frank the tank
  
  So a virus mutates after 1 or 2 infections. Seriously? Do you proof read before you post?
  
  … [Deleted] Dunc was obviously having one of his “labour’ days.
  
  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve always viewed Verrall is a Labour stooge. Criticizing their response one minute, ‘nek minite’ high on their list.
  
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  February 19, 2021 12:48pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    What sort of stooge are you?
    
    “For SARS-CoV-2, scientists estimate that one mutation becomes established in the population every 11 days or so. But this process may not always happen at a steady pace.”
    
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    February 20, 2021 4:24am
- oldfella
  
  Ayesha is such a rising star, Cindy ‘wrote’ a puff piece about her for Time magazine.
  https://time.com/collection-post/5937714/ayesha-verrall/
  I wonder how much Labour’s PR company charged to ‘write’ that particular puff piece.
  Dollars to donuts Cindy didn’t write it. She just took the credit.
  
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  February 19, 2021 1:12pm
Maggie Pie

Just shot up to the local Deli to get a Pork & Mayo Roll and a slab of their homemade Caramel Slice for lunch. Heard the girl beside me asking what they had that was sugar, salt and gluten free?
Guy behind the counter said… “the serviettes”

LOL!!
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February 19, 2021 1:19pm
- Biscuit
  
  Maggie, years and years ago when I was still in the office rat race I (foolishly) volunteered to be the one to organise the office Christmas lunch.
  So, months ahead of the date, I scoped a few local eateries, all of which had to able to cater for 45 people, and whittled things to a shortlist of five…
  That list was circulated to the staff, who were all invited to nominate a fave and to shoot it back to me.
  Oh, did I mention that the boss, out of the goodness of his heart, was kicking in a $100 a head for the occasion?
  (I know $100 doesn’t even buy you an entrée in the Super Shitty these days but…)
  Simplez, eh?, for me to then tally the votes, and make a booking…
  Nooooooooooooooo…
  In promptly came emails along the lines of:
  • If A is the choice, I won’t be going
  • Is X going? If so I won’t be
  • Does Restaurant Q offer a vegan option?
  • Are the toilets ‘Feng Shui’ appropriate?
  • Why isn’t Z one of the restaurant options? You are being very Nazi about this
  It quickly became apparent that the word ‘consensus’ didn’t exist in a lot of my co-workers’ vocabularies.
  Nowadays, ha, there’d be folk demanding – like your example – sugar, salt and gluten free options and insisting that the serviettes be four-ply as a minimum and available in 11 different colours (but not green!)…
  Anyways, the upshot was that the boss, like me, quickly lost interest in the exercise, the lunch was cancelled and, delightfully, the boss emphasised his displeasure at my being f*cked about by splurging for a $50 hamper style prezzie for everyone instead.
  A $50-per-head saving to him, ha, and – better still – the joy of knowing that doubtless there’d be something in the hamper that wouldn’t appeal to everyone…
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:15pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Mod, no idea why but this post shows twice.
    
    Pray delete one of em!
    
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    February 19, 2021 2:24pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      No need to delete the second one Bikkie.
      I had to read it twice anyway.
      
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      February 19, 2021 3:04pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Cool story, bro – tell it again!
      
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      February 19, 2021 3:18pm
Loddenthinks

Further evidence of Facebook flexing their muscles – FB is now the sole arbiter of “climate change truth”.

They’ve set up a Facebook Climate Science Information Centre “a repository of fact-checked claims about the environment.” The climate and the environment are two different things, but never mind, Zuck knows best.

This is apparently a limited trial in the UK, but you can be sure it will spread like a chinese virus. I for one don’t want FB deciding what information I’m allowed to see before being sent off to a camp to be reprogrammed.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/18/facebook-announces-uk-trial-tackle-climate-misinformation
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February 19, 2021 1:57pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Getting us all primed before the latest IPCC report is released….and just in case the big Glasgow talkfest is cancelled
  https://ukcop26.org/
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:11pm
- curry4me
  
  Loddenthinks: I’ve already joined MeWe. None of this PC nonsense from them. I also left three FB groups today.
  
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  February 19, 2021 9:27pm
oldfella

Maggie Pie is a twitter fangirl, so she’ll love this. 🙂
Yesterday, The Daily Beast’s editor Justin Baragona tweeted a screen shot from the Tucker Carlson show featuring a photograph of AOC, and accused him of photoshopping the picture.
Specifically, he accused Tucker of adding “googly eyes” to AOC to make her look more ridiculous.
Nope! That’s literally just her face.
https://www.chicksonright.com/blog/2021/02/18/daily-beast-editor-accuses-tucker-of-adding-googly-eyes-to-aoc-turns-out-its-just-her-face/
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February 19, 2021 2:07pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Confirm that. She does it when discombobulated, which is most of the time. The brain did not respond, had no answer, hence the look
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Trevor Mallard doesn’t get satire..

Other folks do…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/436740/national-party-ad-featuring-labour-mp-clearly-satirical-committee-rules
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February 19, 2021 2:14pm
- sooty
  
  He doesn’t get anything unless it’s free!
  
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  February 19, 2021 6:06pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this was worth sharing with the group.

The guy at the Deli was telling me, the phrase…. “blowing smoke up your ass”, was actually a thing.

A ‘Tobacco Enema’ was in fact a medical procedure used back in the 1700’s, in the belief it would resuscitate drowning victims.

You learn something new every day 😀
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February 19, 2021 2:27pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yeah well anything shoved up the arse is going to make you gasp. Colonoscopy/ prostate biopsy anyone?
  
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  February 19, 2021 2:42pm
- theoldbloke
  
  The famous equivalent
  The guy at the pub said it was true that…..
  
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  February 19, 2021 3:15pm
Maggie Pie

Who uses FB for ‘news’ anyway?
I’m only interested in where all my friends went for the holidays and what they had for dinner.
Everybody knows Twitter is for News.

Just saying.
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February 19, 2021 3:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Play school TV1 is for news //
  
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  February 19, 2021 4:01pm
Libertarians are right

So Grant Robertson has decided that Peter Williams is an evil conspiracy theorist.

He’s basically saying that because Peter Williams mentioned the (entirely real) Great Reset, that he believes the (insane) conspiracy theory that the Left created Covid so that they can reset the world’s economies.

This isn’t why people are concerned about the Great Reset. Most people regard it simply as a case of the global left taking advantage of chaos to push their agenda.

Robertson says there isn’t some massive coordinated effort (despite the WEF certainly trying).

The thing is, we’ve seen this before. We’re told Antifa isn’t an organisation, it’s a movement.

This seems to be the same. All authoritarian Left Wingers moving in the same direction with the intent of “resetting” their economies in exactly the same way.

Does it actually matter if it’s an organisation or just a movement? In the end, just like with Antifa, cities are still going to burn.
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February 19, 2021 3:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Children and those with TDS (same thing) Go to the basement before you get triggered.

https://thepatriotjournal.com/president-poll-reagan-winner-trump/?
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February 19, 2021 4:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ronald Reagan is now runner up.
https://thepatriotjournal.com/president-poll-reagan-winner-trump/?utm_source=mainline2&utm_medium=email
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February 19, 2021 4:03pm
Maggie Pie

Should somebody call Meng?

My partner was just saying he heard Andy Coster on MagicNews telling reporters that the country’s gang problem…. ‘was not black and white’
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February 19, 2021 4:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

They landed on Mars – where they came from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0ss8VE7P7AFj93ThPTyL-LRkJImOf2e_lmZXzKMKWydKhS4y3s6arj1lE&v=gZcI7_xifzI&feature=youtu.be
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February 19, 2021 4:12pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/124301816/grant-robertson-axes-weekly-interview-on-magic-talk-radio-show
Well, Magic Talk are obviously doing all the right things, as the lefties are all trying to shut it down.
Keep it up, Magic Talk hosts !
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February 19, 2021 4:27pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Grant’s getting scared, as he should be out of his depth, with the global economic tsunami gathering force.
  
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  February 19, 2021 4:56pm
  - kowtow
    
    Recall Plunkett said Jax had an open invite to his show , but refused to show .
    Now this . Funny how the ODT editorial today is about how we can trust our pollies ( yeah right) but that the media must still question . How can they when they won’t turn up.
    
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    February 19, 2021 5:13pm
- nathie
  
  Piss poor article by Stuff though, it’s not very balanced and does not explain Peter Williams reasons for asking the question, instead we read about Robertson’s red-herring obfuscations as he deflects by trying to avoid the question.
  
  Which is the where the real story is. Why is the normally affable and sensible Grant Robertson losing his rag? What is he “hiding”? Or is it that he doesn’t want to be accountable for NZ following a path that most Kiwi’s wouldn’t want a bar of? There is clearly more to this than meets the eye (but the bought for MSM won’t go there, instead they will attack the messenger).
  
  Full replay at (listen towards the end – it’s simply astounding)!
  https://www.magic.co.nz/home/news/2021/02/grant-robertson–the-great-reset-movement-is-a—giant-conspirac.html
  
  And as Peter Williams said today, what’s wrong with having a discussion, to clarify Robertson/Labour’s thinking on the wider issue, as it will impact NZ economically and into the future.
  
  Plus apparently there are recordings of Jacinda Ardern supporting this “reset” at the WEF. Where’s the impotent MSM questioning this? Bought off again?
  
  Perhaps ACT needs to do some digging because clearly Roberston (and Ardern) will be highly rattled …
  
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  February 19, 2021 5:57pm
Hollyfield

It’s good to know this Government has a handle on the housing situation in NZ.

“Dr Woods said the advice she’s received on the current gap between housing supply and demand in New Zealand is anywhere between 28,000 and 200,000 homes, based on a range of estimates by banks and property experts.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/02/housing-minister-megan-woods-fires-up-when-quizzed-on-lack-of-property-shortage-figures.html
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February 19, 2021 5:38pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  As my partner’s mum just txt…..
  
  It’s not more HOUSES the country needs to fix its problems – it’s more PRISONS!
  
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  February 19, 2021 6:35pm
- greybeard
  
  28,000 to 200,000 range.
  Estimates ?
  Property “Experts” ?
  Dear God.
  
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  February 19, 2021 6:36pm
RW Capitalist

Boomers lament
Where did all the rebellion go???
Now we have a bunch of wimps that want the govt. (mummy) to look after them and keep them safe.
I suggest an anthem……
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk
BTW, listen carefully Jacinda
“….if that’s your best, your best won’t do…”
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February 19, 2021 5:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

America the Beautiful, what happened to you lefty corksoakers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1fihSpdEx8
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February 19, 2021 7:28pm
RW Capitalist

Just saw a snippet of a “town hall” between Biden and Anderson cooper. via sky news
Where Biden says “you know, we didn’t have a vaccine. before I came to office”
Really Joe??? What was that they gave YOU just a few weeks BEFORE your inauguration?
He was never pulled on that.
I believe that is way worse than Trumps….”I had the biggest crowd…”
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February 19, 2021 9:37pm

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