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December 26, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 December 2020

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Steve Todd

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COVID-19 update from America: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2020/12/dystopia-journal-48-pandemic-winter/? .

Extract—

“It didn’t have to be this way. Much of this suffering and death was avoidable – if only we’d had a minimally decent and competent human being for president, rather than a malignant and ignorant narcissist who sought to hush up bad news so it didn’t imperil his reelection bid. […].”
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December 26, 2020 8:00am
- David Garrett
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I recall seeing a clip of Trump pre-election telling reporters that they would see a sharp decline in the virus cases “very soon”…Perhaps some of the Trumpists here can tell us what “very soon” means in Trumpspeak…
  
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  December 26, 2020 8:20am
  - NewInoffensiveName
    
    After January 20th.
    
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    December 26, 2020 8:26am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      Agree. After 20 January US news will be reporting massive downturn in Covid cases. Massive downturn in blacks being shot by white police massive downturn in crime massive downturn in black unemployment welfare etc etc.
      
      All will be well with Joe and Kamala in charge.
      
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      December 26, 2020 9:59am
      - JackRabbit
        
        All will be well with Joe on life support and ~~Kamala~~ Obama’s sock puppet in charge.
        
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        December 26, 2020 10:32am
      - lifesgood
        
        Just like child poverdy, homelessness and unemployment suddenly disappeared when Jacinda was given the job of PM (by Peters)…..except they didn’t, did they?
        
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        December 26, 2020 11:27am
      - amospicton
        
        Much like the change in the coverage of homelessness and child poverdy here.
        
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        December 26, 2020 11:57am
  - Simon
    
    Lysenkoism in the West is ramping up. There on the front page NZ herald. NZ Lysenkosim bitter and angry that “An anti-lockdown letter in one of New Zealand’s top medical journals by “Covid Plan B” academics has drawn the scorn of the Ministry of Health’s top advisers.”
    
    Lysenkosim the subordination of science to ideology. Covid19 became about ideology when the death counts forecasts were badly wrong but the State / MSM had already scared the population. Here in NZ the State has become addicted to the political success that comes from promoting fear, vast control over the plebs and spending vast sums of printed money. The actual Covid19 outcomes, tiny number of deaths of the already very ill elderly i.e the science has fuck all do with anything.
    
    Covid19, The Fear, is the best thing ever to happen to the Labour party.
    
    Trump vs American Lysenkoism. Trump position that all medical outcomes (and economic) had to be considered when countering Covid. A sane and sound position.
    
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    December 26, 2020 8:51am
    - Bob
      
      SImon,8.51; so very true and frightening. A bit like we are reverting to ‘witchcraft’ rather than the facts of science.
      Steven Joyce penned a very good article in todays Hoorid, alluding to a problem similar to the thrust of your comment. Rather surprised that the Horrid printed it.
      Not surprised about the Horrid ‘puff’ piece article heralding the expertise of Baker and the ministry. Three learned academics can’t all be wrong, since their thoughts reflect the comments that I am hearing from the non- aligned members of the population.
      
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      December 26, 2020 10:02am
    - artemisia
      
      The favoured goto pandemic folk are quite rightly feeling targeted by an opposing, even scandalous, point of view. Not to mention threatened. Because they are.
      
      The Plan B folk are not new to the scene by any means but have had very little airtime because the narrative. Suddenly some big hitters are being heard saying the cure could be worse than the disease.
      
      Immediate fluff from Plan A folk for whom, naturally, it is far too late to resile even a little bit. Though some of the early loud voices seem to have fallen off the radar these days.
      
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      December 26, 2020 10:23am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Simon, I know you are a well-read sweetheart that likes to find things to read that suit your world vision then use the word fear on the internet in a way that it doesn’t apply in the real world.
      Go tell wharfies or truckies that worked through the Covid lockdowns when you were sitting home moaning that they are scared and are plebs.
      Then you can come back and tell the board not about something that you read about but about an actual experience. Also, take a trip to the isolation facilities and tell the armed forces personnel that they are scared and are plebs, even the police or customs staff. Give it a go mate – be honest to your beliefs in person.
      
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      December 26, 2020 10:35am
      - amospicton
        
        As Simon said Brian that fear was not rational – it was stoked by our beloved leaders and their media lackies. Reasonably healthy people under 70 had almost nothing to worry about.
        
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        December 26, 2020 12:01pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        amospiction. You are pre-occupied by the idea that people don’t make their own minds up, that speaks of you – not the general public. That is the middle who are not particular party diehards. It’s the very weakest argument you could have because it cannot be substantiated. What you say was not backed up by the polls or the 2,000 odd that turned out in Auckland for a mishmash number of reasons including that Covid was a myth.
        
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        December 26, 2020 12:16pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Very famous Russian saying, I believe from Stalin ?
      
      “Take away the common enemy all you get is Kaos”.
      
      The common enemy in this was the USSR.
      
      Take from it what you wish.
      
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      December 26, 2020 5:48pm
  - Nickc2
    
    It means exactly the same as when you were a Pollie David – SQUAT! As a Lawer and former MP, you should know this.
    
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    December 26, 2020 8:53am
  - Inandout
    
    DG, you are far too intgelligent for this Trump diversion stuff. His supposed replacement is, as you well know, a patsy to be replaced ASAP so the Dems can take the power they and the establishment have sought since that ‘upstart’ businessman moved into the White House. Joe has spent 47 years at the trough and not produced an iota of benefit for the US, and has a son who is as crooked as the worst criminal lawyers that once inhabited the NZ bench. How a man of your character could look the other way when the US media shut down and censored all mention of Hunter’s crimes is beyond my comprehension.
    
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    December 26, 2020 8:56am
    - NewInoffensiveName
      
      Don’t worry. Biden will never occupy the Oval Office.
      
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      December 26, 2020 9:26am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Where else would a sitting President lie “in state” before the funeral?
        
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        December 26, 2020 9:59am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Inandout anything you missed out there from starting with the word of your personal elevation to “intelligent?” Passing by troughing politicians and the President’s elect son’s “crimes.” Your last 3 words captured the situation for you, “beyond my (your) comprehension.”
      
      [Please lay off the personal abuse if you want to keep posting here today. I’m not going to continue giving up my time here so dicks can keep on slagging off each other – really, better things to do. Also, looking at the up/down ticks, you are in the minority. Think about that. Mod.]
      
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      December 26, 2020 12:22pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    DG: My take is he was putting a positive (posidive) spin on the situation. Much like St Jacinda does with her “Trans Tasman/Cook Islands bubble coming early next year” etc. Spin spin and more spin.
    
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    December 26, 2020 9:16am
  - theoldbloke
    
    [Deleted – https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy :Personal Abuse
    
    Mod.]
    
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    December 26, 2020 9:22am
- Scott
  
  Dear me – no. You might not like Donald Trump’s personality, fine. But a lot of things he did were very good. He worked with the governors to get PPE and to get ventilators and all of the things that the governors wanted.
  
  And blaming the virus on him and the deaths is just ridiculous. He basically did pretty much everything that Dr Fauci and others wanted. He worked hard with industry and scientists to get a vaccine really quickly.
  
  Unfortunately the media were determined to slander everything he did as wrong. Even hydroxy was dismissed because trump said that it was promising.
  
  The link you are posting is a guy who is way over the top and appears to have an advanced case of TDS. Unfortunately there appears to be no vaccine for TDS.
  
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  December 26, 2020 8:51am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    How did President Trump not get tired of being right.
    Russia collusion…..FAKE
    Steel dossier……….FAKE
    FISA warrant……FAKE (and illegally obtained)
    Ukraine corruption….FAKE
    Impeachment….FAKE
    Attacks on Supreme court nominees….FAKE
    Industries revitalized as promised
    Economic growth as promised
    low unemployment as promised
    Covid vaccine BEFORE Xmas…as promised
    
    ACTIONS not words
    Achievements (POSITIVE) not just deeds
    AND BTW
    
    Please stop being disingenuous
    YOU are ALL old enough to remember the time BEFORE Covid where all of the above was happening in the US and the OPPOSITE results were being visited on NZ by these incompetent and dishonest fools, that call themselves a govt.
    
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    December 26, 2020 10:09am
    - SB2
      
      Ukraine corruption….FAKE? Certainly the Hunter Biden claims are fake
      
      Impeachment….FAKE Only because the GOP had the majority in the Senate that saved Trump’s bacon
      
      Industries revitalized as promised ?Not in eg Ohio Youngstown where unemployment is still high and the General Motor Plant remains closed ( main source of work )
      
      low unemployment as promised? Not in 2020 where it mattered
      
      Covid vaccine BEFORE Xmas…as promised Not as a direct result of Operation Warp Speed
      
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      December 26, 2020 12:15pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Impeachment…Fake….NO CRIMES found
        Ukraine…jury’s still out on Hunter
        Covid is unique event, will end.
        The unemployment is being seen in 2020 in states that locked down the economy, largely Democrat states.
        33% growth in previous quarter.
        Covid vaccine BEFORE Xmas…as promised Not as a direct result of Operation Warp Speed
        WRONG in EVERY sense, the race doesn’t start without the starting gun.
        In Kennedy’s race to the moon and
        In Trumps case, the announcement of warp speed.
        
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        December 26, 2020 12:58pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You are finally catching up Scott. Listing things that you believe Trump was good at which may be the least hurtful way for you of acknowledging his defeat.
    For at least weeks, maybe months I’ve thought about the way Trump appeared at some conference which Putin attended and was released partly on video. Putin appeared outgoing and in control. Trump looked neither, in fact very uncomfortable.
    It immediately reminded me of situations where a person’s appearance at a press release is contrived as if to show support for a decision or be see as an explanation of some type given by someone present. Or maybe to show they accept a position where formerly they did not.
    It made me wonder why Trump, probably one of the least humble people on the planet, appeared humbled, awkward, and even controlled as though Putin was his master.
    Do you recall seeing it, Scott? It is pretty fascinating. It got bought back to mind by some of the people who Trump has pardoned for lying to investigators. That Putin had outsmarted Trump’s operatives however distant they may have been and saw that he had Trump in his pocket.
    Begs the question, did Trump reveal something about himself with those pardons, make a mistake?
    All of this is present now.
    As are the toes Trump disdainfully stood on in the military and secret services. Will there be people continuing to go after him and is that why a common question is whether a President can pardon himself, or of the possibility that Trump will resign to be pardoned by Pence?
    A good time to move on and observe the aftermath of Trump’s presidency.
    
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    December 26, 2020 10:57am
    - Scott
      
      Brian McDonald – are you still going on about Trump and Russia? The idea that Trump is a Russian agent in the pocket of Vladimir Putin? The idea that was investigated for years by an out of control special counsel and despite years of investigation and millions of dollars of expenditure, no evidence was ever found?
      
      Honestly Brian, Trump and Russia was always a hoax. Let it go man.
      
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      December 26, 2020 1:51pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Nope. Never mentioned Russia before in this context. And not saying Trump is an agent – rather than his own actions or those undertaken on his behalf compromised him. Why else would he pardon people convicted of lying to American authorities about their contact with Russia?
        
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        December 26, 2020 3:33pm
    - Robert
      
      Oh you mean no new wars. Hasn’t bombed any innocent civilians both these are the first for a US president in over 70 years.
      Well that’s a good start.
      Appointed 140 or more Justices.(good and bad).
      got rid of many swamp dwellers.
      Got lots done during covid. Ventilators which now being supplied to many countries as well, as their own hospitals. In their thousands. Indonesia for example got a plane load the other day.
      Made America self sufficient in oil. Now I guess you won’t have though much about that as seems to be the deal here these days.
      But, America being self sufficient means that countries that have traded oil are no doing so at a much lower price. So what does that mean? It means that the countries that used their oil money to start wars, provide arms bought mainly from Russia or Pakistan don’t have the same cash to toss around. So the benefactors are not able to buy as many armaments. Quite a good deal really.
      Knocked off probably the worst terrorist in the world and gave a quiet lesson to the Iranians who are shortly to get another.
      
      Managed in his quiet moments to get 5, yep, that’s right five, Middle East peace and trade agreements in place. Not bad for a bloody amateur you would have him be.
      Put a clamp on the worlds displaced persons moving into the USA. If you have never been there and seen what that was like then you are not even in a position to comment.
      Prior to covid had the lowest level of unemployment in all the population sectors in the States.
      Caused the rising of wages thru that action.
      
      Tore up useless trade agreements that hurt US workers.
      
      Has achieved more in driving down drug imports than any other President. Why because he would not accept 1000 people a week dying from the use of Chinese made and illegally imported drugs. Drugs imported by so called Americans and dished out by so called DRs.
      
      Caused a lot of US companies to move from China. Now tell me why that happened. Could it be that in fact he saw what XI was about to do way before you?
      Exposed the huge theft of Intellectual Property Rights by the Chinese.
      Oh you think Hawei is a new idea. Hell no. If you ain’t had a clever idea in your life then perhaps you don’t care that they would steal it from you.
      There’s a huge long list that if you read CNN, MSMBC, ABC, you will never see as they have sheltered themselves behind the Dems and the the use of section 230 by the Spyteks.
      
      Exposed the extent of Chinese penetration into USA politics. We need to do the same. Nats included.
      There’s more if you bother to open your minds, take off your Chinese coloured glasses and go find out.
      
      BUT, and here’s the Truth.
      You won’t.
      
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      December 27, 2020 6:31pm
- Andrei
  
  Every civilization collapses and we are living through the collapse of ours.
  
  Covid-19 is just a tool to scare the gulliable and foolish such as yourself by twisting statistics and torturing data.
  
  Today stuff is wittering on about an outbreak in Sydney that has yet to kill a single person and probably wont.
  
  For some reason the death of a 94 year old dementia patient (an every day occurrence) becomes newsworthy if certain RNA fragments after having amplified with PCR are detected in her respiratory system.
  
  Of course since corona viruses are ubiquitous and mutate often the powers that be can keep this going as long as they want and they will until they have reduced us all to subserviant serfdom but I suspect that is what you really are an unthinking obedient serf who will tug your forelock to your master and say it is doing as we are told that keeps us free.
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:31am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Feel better now, Andrei?
    
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    December 26, 2020 9:52am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Downtickers, please don’t overlook the fact that, during his rant, Andrei called me “gulliable [sic] and foolish”, and suggested I am “an unthinking obedient serf”.
      
      I consider my response was measured, controlled, and reasonable.
      
      Just like Benedict Yu, I, too, will get my vaccination as soon as possible. At my age, it would be silly not to.
      
      It’s not a question of being a sheeple. I have been getting the ’flu jab every April for more than 25 years now, simply because it is better to be safe than sorry. Why wouldn’t I get the coronavirus jab, as well, especially given that the border won’t open until a certain percentage (whatever that might be) of us have been vaccinated? And if I’m offered a “booster” every year or two, I’ll happily take that, too.
      
      How on earth does that make me an “obedient serf”? I suggest it doesn’t.
      
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      December 26, 2020 1:22pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        It’s to do with downticks and being part of the New Zealand majority apparently.
        
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        December 26, 2020 1:40pm
- Fletch
  
  What a crock. And what if Biden had been president? Would he have closed the border to China like Trump did? Unlikely, as Biden and his family cozied up to the CCP, getting millions from. He called trump racist for closing the border at the time.
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:39am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I note that China have closed their borders to flights from the UK and somehow that is not racist; whereas the CCP – and China’s Ambassador in NZ – were screaming racism when Trump closed the US border to flights from China. Of course it’s different when they do it…
    
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    December 26, 2020 11:43am
- GJM
  
  Isn’t the health response the responsibility of the states, beinga federal system and all? Hence the disaster in New York, where the (Democrat) state government sent sick people to oldfolks homes with the expected results?
  
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  December 26, 2020 10:16am
  - giltee
    
    That’s my thinking. Isn’t it better to blame Trump for the out of control pandemic in the states when each state in USA can act independently by locking down and closing its borders. There’s a lot more at play there and it has more to do with blaming Trump for everything and getting rid of him.
    
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    December 26, 2020 11:27am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Interesting to see downticks for stating a truth.
    
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    December 26, 2020 11:43am
Swifty

If men wish to dress up as women I say good luck to them. Live and let live, as long as they ‘neither pick my pocket or break my arm….’ as the saying goes.

However it appears many, notably many women, are concerned at trans demands and are speaking out.

For a fresh look at this issue, I can strongly recommend this piece from the Triggernometry guys – this woman, Posie Parker, just lands bomb after bomb.

She opened my eyes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdpc2r4cBxQ

[Mod. Note: Thank you Swifty for showing the perfect way to introduce a you-tube link. Other posters, please take note.]
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December 26, 2020 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Really interesting. The police tried to prosecute this woman for saying truthfully that somebody took a 16 year old boy to Thailand to be castrated.
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:24am
- redeye
  
  I genuinely cannot understand how you can feel like you are a member of the opposite sex without stereotyping that gender.
  So if you are biologically female but feel your a man, like Ellen/Elliot Page, how do you benefit from now calling yourself a man? I’m picking she wont get too many male roles.
  Woman can do everything males can except impregnate another woman. They can wear men’s clothes, weld and hammer, and swear and fart etc.
  It is a genuine question. I simply cannot wrap my head around it
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:37am
  - Swifty
    
    “I genuinely cannot understand how you can feel like you are a member of the opposite sex without stereotyping that gender…..”
    
    Exactly redeye.
    
    “Oh I have always felt I was a woman….” says Barry
    
    “Really, how would you know?” replies Cathy
    
    Sums it up for me.
    
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    December 26, 2020 10:43am
- oldfella
  
  Swifty, at the heart of this is the right to free speech. If we ain’t got free speech, we just ain’t free!
  Spiked, as always, has some good thoughts on the subject.
  ++
  As we prepare to face new threats to free speech in the new year, we need to find ways to restate and update some first principles. Our liberty remains indivisible; we defend free speech for all, or none at all. It is not just about defending somebody else’s right to hate, but also our right to listen (or not) and judge for ourselves. Once you seek to infringe that freedom, the question is always: who decides where to draw the line?
  https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/12/23/a-good-year-for-free-speech-haters/
  
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  December 26, 2020 10:55am
- giltee
  
  Very interesting video. I don’t care what a man or woman wants to do with their body or what gender they want to be as long as they don’t push their ideology onto me and don’t condemn my right to my own opinion. Firstly I’ve been to Thailand, the land of smiles and ladyboys many times and rightly they’re an accepted part of Thai society. I’ve often said the Thai ladyboys in appearance and mannerisms appear more girly than the girls. In Aussie I worked with a middle-aged transgender truck diver in a predominantly male FIFO environment where even though she screwed up many times because SHE was transgender she was protected and they couldn’t get rid of her. That is wrong because we should be all treated as equal but the company treated her with differently to others I guess because of the bad publicity and litigation that would come from firing her. The toilet issue came up in my mind because she used the woman’s toilets and as it turned out he/she was pre-op. I’ve no problem with transgenders using male toilets because they’re born a man so I asked a female colleague how she feels about he/she using the woman’s toilets and her opinion was the same, that women’s toilets were a woman’s space. An interesting point so where should they fit, should we have to accept they’re a woman because biologically they’re not. Or should we just accept that they have a right to be what they want to be, treat them with respect for their choices with them giving us the respect to accept tat we have a right to our own opinions even if it’s the opposite of theirs.
  
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  December 26, 2020 1:11pm
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Trump’s last desperate roll of the dice
the so-called Pence card that claims that VP Pence has an ace up his sleeve that will rescue the Trump presidency.This is currently doing the far-right social media rounds,

But ….,

“Here’s Why Pence Can’t Overthrow Biden’s Win (Despite What Trump May Hope)

As President Donald Trump desperately looks to reverse his election loss, he’s reportedly taken an interest in Vice President Mike Pence’s obscure, constitutionally mandated role when Congress counts Electoral College votes next month — but federal law gives Pence almost no power to derail President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.

KEY FACTS

The Senate and House will meet in a joint session on Jan. 6 to officially count the Electoral College votes (which Biden won 306-232), and as president of the Senate, Pence is set to preside over this normally uncontroversial event.

On Wednesday night, the president retweeted a wild suggestion that Pence should use his role to toss out electoral votes from swing states won by Biden, falsely arguing the vice president has the right to demand new electors if he deems them legally illegitimate.

In reality, Pence’s role in the electoral process is sharply limited: He’s in charge of opening the certificates sent by each state’s electoral slate and presiding over a joint session of Congress, not weighing in on the election’s outcome….”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2020/12/24/heres-why-pence-cant-overthrow-bidens-win-despite-what-trump-may-hope/?sh=7cdfcc0547d9

Whitehouse staff better get the removal vans bookesd
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December 26, 2020 8:12am
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  I think there is some validity to the assertion that Pence has some Constitutional latitude regarding the counting of electors. But I do not think this gambit alone is sufficient for Trump to secure victory without also tearing the nation apart. I expect to see a disclosure of some sort between now and New Year’s Eve setting out what military intelligence efforts gathered leading up to, through, and after the election. I also expect to see some politicians ‘fessing up to their sins. This may provide cover for Pence to use his Constitutional discretion, or maybe some other mechanism (a Biden concession?) will decide matters. The fact that we have not yet seen what NSA, DIA, and other intelligence assets must have collected suggests strongly to me that this is the shoe that is waiting to drop. (Cue the gnashing of teeth and flurry of downvoting!)
  
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  December 26, 2020 8:52am
- Steve Todd
  
  Yes, I covered this off last week, but a good reminder, SB2.
  
  I liked this, from the Forbes article you linked to—
  
  “When Congress certified Trump’s victory four years ago, the presiding officer was Biden, then the outgoing vice president. A handful of House Democrats raised symbolic objections to Trump’s electors, but Biden gaveled them down and said ‘it’s over.’”
  
  It’s all laid out here: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf.
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:07am
- Fletch
  
  According to Giuliani things are going to “blow up” after Christmas. And lets look at what else is happening. The White House has instructed Trump staff to STOP packing. The Pentagon has stopped giving Joe Biden intelligence briefings. Kamala Harris STILL hasn’t left her Senate seat.
  
  Giuliani – “You’re going to find out all at once. It’s going to be very shocking to the country.”
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:44am
  - SB2
    
    Fletch, just remind us when they let the departure day fireworks off.
    
    BOOM!
    
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    December 26, 2020 10:02am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Sigh. No sources, no links.
    
    Kamala Harris STILL hasn’t left her Senate seat.
    
    She will vacate her Senate seat on the constitutionally-mandated date – January 3, 2021.
    
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    December 26, 2020 10:10am
    - Fletch
      
      In just one instance – Giuliani, in this video, talks about the list of “indefinitely confined” people in Wisconsin who made use of an absentee ballot (which requires no ID). In the 2018 election there were 20,000 people in that category. This year it was 226,000. Wisconsin is very strict on the law, and if you really aren’t “indefinitely confined” that vote has to be dismissed. They are going through the lists. It isn’t complete yet but Giuliani says, “we’re in the process of investigating that group, and I can report to you, not the final result, but I can report that we’re well beyond the point that would change the election”.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkvvtuVsyUA
      
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      December 26, 2020 10:55am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Fletch,
        
        The fundamental point you are missing is that these people were registered, and did cast a vote, albeit by post. No-one is seriously suggesting that didn’t cast their own vote.
        
        The courts will not unilaterally cancel these votes, even if the voters did take advantage of a provision to cast a postal votes. Courts are extremely wary of taking people’s votes off them, especially when there are hundreds of thousands cast by post in the the very real fear of covid.
        
        As a rule I have ceased commenting on these sorts of posts whereby the commenter thinks courts and various legislatures will magically will deliver the election to Trump. It is not going to happen, and the various theories are generally too far fetched to be worth commenting on.
        
        However, I thought I should comment on your post which seems to be of the view that courts will just cancel literally hundreds of thousands of votes on relatively minor points. In the US the courts will also be highly mindful of looking like they are applying Jim Crow laws.
        
        I have actually participated as a legal advisor in electoral challenges, obviously in New Zealand. Courts are highly reluctant to cancel a person’s vote, even if there are technical irregularities. They really only do so if there is actual fraud, or if the person is not registered and has never made an attempt to do so.
        
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        December 26, 2020 11:44am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thank you, Fletch. I appreciate that. I have watched the video.
        
        So, Giuliani is alleging fraud, whereas he was not prepared to do so to any of the judges he and/or his legal team appeared before, before now. Perhaps he had better start doing so, and present what evidence he has.
        
        Nothing will change until judges start evaluating evidence “of fraud”. Regardless, it all seems to me to be too late.
        
        I don’t understand why Giuliani keeps going on about the use of the Dominion Voting machines in Antrim County. The election night result indicating Biden had won, was corrected. The final, certified (hand tally), result gives Biden-Harris 5,960, Trump-Pence 9,748, Others 241; Total 15,949. The mistake, and how it was corrected, is all explained here – I don’t see the problem: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/12/17/antrim-county-hand-tally-certified-election-results/3937898001/.
        
        See also the actual certified result, at the first eight pages (of 185), here: http://www.antrimcounty.org/downloads/official_results_2nd_amended.pdf. See also, on page 2, that the total number of registered voters in Antrim County was 22,082. Surely, those who voted had their names marked off the register of voters.
        
        Fletch! It’s over.
        
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        December 26, 2020 12:21pm
      - Fletch
        
        The fundamental point you are missing is that these people were registered, and did cast a vote, albeit by post.
        
        And how do you know that to be true? If you’re posting a ballot because of the virus and you’re afraid of going out, then why not just send a regular postal ballot (which presumably does require ID?) Why use this special category? Something just doesn’t add up there. I fail to see how the number of “indefinitely confined” magically increases by 10 times in a state. It just isn’t possible.
        
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        December 26, 2020 7:43pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Is Giuliani now releasing press statements from the funny farm?
    
    4 11
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    December 26, 2020 11:10am
    - Mike
      
      In between redoing his hair dye and tucking in his shirt.
      
      6 9
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      December 26, 2020 11:27am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      I doubt Giuliani is in Bidens basement.
      
      7 6
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      December 26, 2020 11:46am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        He’s already been there but couldn’t find any vote-counting machines to seize so he dyed his hair and adjusted his belt before leaving.
        
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        December 26, 2020 1:45pm
  - Alan1930
    
    The only thing “blowing up after Christmas” will be Trump’s legal teams as they self destruct.
    
    The writing is already on the wall for them.
    
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    December 27, 2020 4:19am
KevO'Brien

HM Elizabeth II, Queen of New Zealand, Christmas message–
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9013591/How-Queen-used-Christmas-speech-lift-nations-spirits-troubled-years.html

Contains full video.
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December 26, 2020 8:20am
- David Garrett
  
  Kev: Isn’t she just a magnificent trooper? At 94 she’s clearly still playing with a full deck.
  
  45 2
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  December 26, 2020 8:21am
  - lifesgood
    
    Amazing woman! Did anyone see the documentary with Mary Berry and Prince William and Kate a couple of nights ago? What a thoroughly likeable, down to earth couple they are. He will make an outstanding king if the monarchy continues. Just as well William’s the heir and not his idiot brother.
    
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    December 26, 2020 8:46am
    - David Garrett
      
      lifesgood: Are you referring to Major Hewitt’s son?
      
      10 27
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      December 26, 2020 9:00am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        David I think the consensus is that is unlikely. Dianna did not meet Hewitt until years after Harry was born. Also Harry is now showing the identical rapid onset baldness that William has.
        
        Nobody has ever come up with a shred of evidence that Hewitt is Harry’s father.
        
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        December 26, 2020 9:07am
      - Swifty
        
        I heard once that male baldness was inherited through the mother i.e. the mothers side….
        
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        December 26, 2020 9:28am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Still there is no evidence. Many of Diana’s relatives had red hair including her brother.
        
        There will always be suspicion but not even any weak evidence that Charles is not Harry’s father.
        
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        December 26, 2020 9:49am
      - Nukuleka
        
        Sad to see someone of your character and intellect subscribing to absurd conspiracy theories, DG..
        
        16 3
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        December 26, 2020 10:39am
    - GazzaW
      
      ……and yet there are tens of thousands of Kiwis who want to switch to republicanism and would be happy to swap our very unique constitutional monarchy system to one where in all likelihood Helen Clark would be installed as President of the Peoples Socialist Republic of Aotearoa.
      
      If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
      
      35 5
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      December 26, 2020 9:42am
      - Bob
        
        This .. Comrade Clarke as Pres of …is not as implausible as it may seem; watch the political developments during the next twelve to eighteen months.
        
        15 3
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        December 26, 2020 10:09am
      - GazzaW
        
        And you can bet your bottom dollar that our President would be selected by the MPs of the ruling party and not by the populace.
        
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        December 26, 2020 12:22pm
      - giltee
        
        If we became a republic then the cursed treaty of waitangi would become irrelevant to all but the gravy-train Iwi. If there was a sensible brave government then a new non-separatist constitution could be drafted where were all treated equally regardless as race. Long live our Queen and the Commonwealth because it was just an idea, a dream.
        
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        December 26, 2020 1:22pm
  - SB2
    
    DG, I agree and at that age she is truly remarkable. Her Chrsitmas message was one of her best.
    
    The best!
    
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    December 26, 2020 10:04am
MCos

Important opinion piece by Garry Kasparov in light of the coming change at the top in America.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/25/opinions/putin-russia-navalny-poisoning-cyberattack-kasparov/index.html
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December 26, 2020 8:22am
igm

Gassed up the T150, hoping it will get to Wanganui and back, event free; especially tickets.
16 3
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December 26, 2020 8:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I thought all mobility scooters were electric.
  
  14 31
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  December 26, 2020 9:05am
  - oldfella
    
    MMA, I saw your comment and laughed. A joke, right? For which you got 12 downticks… Really?
    I think there must be a few hungover Grinches on KB today.
    
    6 12
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    December 26, 2020 11:00am
    - Mike
      
      For sure. A joke’s a joke. If downticks mattered at all, I would have stopped commenting years ago.
      
      8 3
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      December 26, 2020 11:30am
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      Mikenmild dosent joke he just trolls, this was a low level troll post as a dig at igm due to their lil tit for tat the other day
      
      10 8
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      December 26, 2020 1:34pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Mike, you can be forgiven for revealing how young you are. IGM was probably cruising the highways on his T150 when those in your age group were still painting their nappies Karitane yellow.
    
    20 4
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    December 26, 2020 11:02am
  - igm
    
    Left-wing losers and state employees/tenants do not think . . . they leech!
    
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    December 27, 2020 7:28am
Gravelroad

Watched HM The Queen’s Christmas message last evening.
It was a masterclass of inclusiveness mixed with an unequivocal statement of where she stands on her own religious beliefs.
A clever, brave woman.
Many in the sneering media and community “leadership” positions could learn a lot from her “without fear or favour” approach.
They won’t of course.
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December 26, 2020 8:24am
- Bob
  
  Many in the sneering media and community “leadership” positions could learn a lot…..
  They won’t of course, since they don’t believe (realise) that they need to learn anything.’ THEY’ know all the answers.
  
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  December 26, 2020 10:11am
- Wimpston peeders
  
  [Deleted – unacceptable OTT abuse. Mod.]
  
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  December 26, 2020 1:35pm
NewInoffensiveName

Trump warned Iran not to harm Americans. A great article describing how he (and Israel) may smite them if they transgress:

https://libertyunyielding.com/2020/12/22/submarine-transits-of-suez-hormuz-send-signal-to-iran/
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December 26, 2020 8:27am
Ruahine

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
She is a great Lady compared to the useless and gutless Charles Windsor who will likely be the next King of England. For us it would then be time to cut ties with the British Monarchy. We should declare ourselves a Republic.
We should call ourselves the Peoples Democratic Republic of Aotearoa.
I also know just the person to make this happen.
Be kind.
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December 26, 2020 8:30am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  You forgot to mention President Klark.
  
  21 4
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  December 26, 2020 8:48am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I’d prefer to just miss out the eccentric Charles and move on with William.
    
    12 11
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    December 26, 2020 8:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Amazingly, an hereditary monarchy does not work that way…
      
      17 2
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      December 26, 2020 9:06am
      - kowtow
        
        It works anyway those in power want it to work.
        
        Between James II and Edward VIII one could probably find a few more examples .
        
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        December 26, 2020 9:48am
      - Mike
        
        Good examples. At least half a dozen English monarchs have been deposed or murdered. Edward VIII is the most relevant. His personal conduct did not meet contemporary standards. But there are no political or personal issued that would make a Charles III unacceptable.
        
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        December 26, 2020 11:39am
- calendar girl
  
  My country is called New Zealand, thanks.
  
  52 2
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  December 26, 2020 8:56am
  - fernglas
    
    I have no objection to the name being changed to Aotearoa, but I would like to be asked first.
    
    11 27
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    December 26, 2020 9:27am
  - Ruahine
    
    It is mine as well calendar girl. But we are being brainwashed in to thinking that there was a Maori name for what was named New Zealand by Abel Tasman.
    When there never was.
    
    47 3
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    December 26, 2020 9:31am
    - chukar
      
      New Zealand for ever!
      An inclusive name that recognises every resident of this country, and the contribution made by them.
      Key tried unsuccessfully to change the flag but at least he had a referendum .
      This mob are trying to change the name by stealth without asking any New Zealanders.
      Yet again a racially divisive policy.
      
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      December 26, 2020 10:32am
      - artemisia
        
        Way too early in the election cycle for National to fly policy flags. Not too early for ACT though, maybe after a quiet word in the other opposition ear.
        
        A policy flag like – ACT is totally opposed to a change of name of our nation. We will fight them on the beaches …. If we are still allowed on them.
        
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        December 26, 2020 12:54pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Just as there were no Maori names for many things that colonisation bought, that Maori are now laying prior claim to.
      
      30 3
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      December 26, 2020 11:04am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        Like that well-known pre-colonisation taonga, the 3.6 Ghz 5G radio spectrum.
        
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        December 26, 2020 7:56pm
- MCos
  
  On the face of it our monarchy has no influence in the politics of our country, which is not hard to believe.
  Whether the same applies in the UK only the Queen & the PM know although the latter is left holding the can when things turn to custard.
  I note the other day the King of Sweden gave his government a kick up the bum over it’s handling of the pandemic. I don’t know if that’s typical in that realm, but I wonder what would happen if Charles/William started to speak out?
  Personally I think NZ should be become a republic within the commonwealth.
  As for blatantly political de facto Head of State appointments, National made Holyoake Governor Gerneral with the power to sack the government as Australia found out. The GG is also Commander in Chief of the Defence Force.
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:14am
  - Jack5
    
    If a Governor-General did try to sack the Government, NZ would be a full republic very quickly.
    
    However, the present set-up is great in many ways: we are a constitutional monarchy where the monarch is a mere figurehead, exercising no political power, yet providing a distant link to authentic and historical pageantry.
    
    It also gives NZ the political stability of constitutional republics.
    
    NZ is a virtual republic without the drawbacks of a republic.
    
    Drawbacks for a New Zealand repubic would be another layer of government, when one of the advantages of the country is its lean one-layer government.
    
    Another is that the necessary presidency would provide an unelected presidential retirement hole for the likes of Clark, Bolger, Key, and Ardern. Yuck!
    
    And another drawback: first, Maori would likely demand some sort of racial basis for appointment of president; second, others would want the role at least alternately filled by women; third, multiculturists would want minority representatives appointed.
    
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    December 26, 2020 11:17am
    - Jack5
      
      Edit: It also gives NZ the political stability of constitutional ~~republics~~ monarchies.
      
      Sorry for that!
      
      3 0
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      December 26, 2020 3:56pm
- giltee
  
  Love you SOH Ruahine
  
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  December 26, 2020 1:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

For Americans. Merry Christmas to you.
America the Beautiful- Willie Nelson and Ensemble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1fihSpdEx8
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December 26, 2020 8:33am
- Wimpston peeders
  
  In america its “happy holidays” left/ woketards will ravage you for saying merry xmas
  
  2 6
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  December 26, 2020 1:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Fuck the ‘woketards’ – and the left
    
    8 5
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    December 26, 2020 2:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I’m guessing not many bothered to watch. Many famous faces there. Neil Young, Stevie Wonder, Mohamed Ali. All patriots – even from the left
    
    3 5
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    December 26, 2020 2:25pm
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      Yup i know but the transition to happy holidays started almost 2 decades ago.
      Somehow its oppressive and offensive to keep merry xmas.
      
      Sometime next month might pay to remind the patriots of america to sort that out when they stand up for their country and freedom.
      
      5 3
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      December 26, 2020 4:34pm
      - Batman
        
        It is rather amusing that a commerical catch-all phrase used around the multi-holiday time of the year has been turned into some nefarious plot ?
        
        3 7
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        December 26, 2020 5:39pm
      - Wimpston peeders
        
        Batty cleary you dont understand the reason happy holidays was introduced.
        
        Im waiting for it to happen here, manendez march will likely be the one to do so on grounds of inequality or somecrap like that. If the pasifika ppl werent so religious then it wouldve been mentioned by nz left already.
        
        But hey you stick to your lil naive millenial world where everything is make believe and fairy tales.
        
        6 4
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        December 26, 2020 5:51pm
      - Batman
        
        Pathetic as usual from you. Your warped mind always goes for grievance instead of reality or reason
        
        3 7
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        December 26, 2020 6:13pm
      - Wimpston peeders
        
        Ok batman whatever makes you happy. Ill let you go back to your gender studies and smashed avo on toast, Reality alludes you.
        
        3 4
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        December 26, 2020 6:52pm
    - maintiens le droit
      
      Neil Young is Canadian.
      
      3 0
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      December 26, 2020 8:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Now that we are on the downward slide out of our Earthly existence, Hubby and I have been divesting ourselves of ~~possessions~~ junk.
So we’re not in the habit of giving ~~presents~~ stuff to each other.

However, our kids still like to give us stuff… and this year one of them seems to have hit the jackpot of locating old junk for Hubby —- a bunch of decrepit Classic Comics.

I remember being rather embarrassed that I had a husband who had a standing order for Donald Duck comics down at Mrs Far’s Stationery Store in Island Bay…but looks like his comic collection might be worth a few bob if we have to cash-up one day.
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December 26, 2020 8:34am
Benedict Yu

Hopefully the Queen will live to 103. Not impossible. That will make Charles 81. Then hope he only lasts 5 to 10 years.
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December 26, 2020 8:54am
- Steve Todd
  
  Then hope he only lasts 5 to 10 years.
  
  That is in very poor taste, Benedict.
  
  I, for one, want every person on this planet to live out their natural lives (even though, of course, I know that doesn’t happen), including Prince Charles.
  
  Consequently, I’m perfectly happy to wait as long as it takes for New Zealand to become a republic (within the Commonwealth). Realistically, it won’t happen during my lifetime.
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:39am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    OK I apologise for bad taste. I will reword. I hope that Queen lives a very long time because I do not think Charles will make a good Head of State.
    
    23 4
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    December 26, 2020 10:16am
- Wimpston peeders
  
  Both are lying germans masquerading as important english folk.
  
  3 3
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  December 26, 2020 4:36pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…..

Joe and Jill Biden face first hard-hitting television interview together…..

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1342257498405785600
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December 26, 2020 8:58am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, knowing Hunter’s liking for many types of powder was that really baking powder that ‘fell like snow’ around the Christmas tree?
  
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  December 26, 2020 9:33am
  - oldfella
    
    ‘Joe, how old was little Hunter when he first asked Santa to bring him a hooker for Christmas?’
    
    14 4
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    December 26, 2020 11:06am
- curry4me
  
  Maggie Pie: Beijing Biden, and ‘Dr Jill’.
  
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  December 26, 2020 7:28pm
Maggie Pie

And my partner was just saying that Chynaa is already flexing its muscles with the bought and paid for Bidens.
Demanding Joe return the US to the Iran Nuclear Deal….

https://twitter.com/ThePoliticalHat/status/1341850433724149760
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December 26, 2020 9:30am
- SB2
  
  “..bought and paid for Bidens.”
  
  ???
  
  4 32
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  December 26, 2020 10:07am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Fake President-elect. Bought & paid for China Loyalists. Adored by Big Tech. Shielded by the MSM.
    
    “YUP. They’re good folks, folks” LOL!!
    
    29 9
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    December 26, 2020 10:57am
- kowtow
  
  And the bought and paid for Media pardy.
  
  The CCP is knocking the shit out of our closest ally and most important neighboring country and our MSM is full of anti Trump tirades , which have sucked in the gullible and done the perfect job of diversionism……
  
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  December 26, 2020 10:09am
Benedict Yu

Fascinating but scary article in the Spectator on cancel culture. From July but worth a read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/were-facing-a-tsunami-of-censorship/amp

It refers to a man who wrote a post on social media criticising aspects of the Black Lives Matter movement. Particularly their demand that capitalism be dismantled. Someone posted anonymously “We are coming after you.” Shortly afterwards he was sacked from his job running an NGO.

This is what the UK has become and it could happen here. We should be afraid. I would take to the streets to protest and I have never done that.
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December 26, 2020 9:41am
- Justitia
  
  I will be joining you in the streets Benedict. We will each need to buy a good crash helmet with the Antifa thugs around.
  
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  December 26, 2020 10:01am
- Jack5
  
  Has anyone heard if the threat of controls on freedom of speech is causing National to stir in its sleep?
  
  It still seems preoccupied with tackling Jacinderella on her pandemic policies and pandemic management. A tough course.
  
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  December 26, 2020 11:27am
Positan

A fact not appreciated, let alone understood, by our shallow-thinking anti-royalists is the constitutional safeguard and electoral stability that is ensured by the Crown in our country. One example: the Queen is head of our law – a position in which she plays no part other than to (via her G-G representative) sign into law the legislation our parliament enacts – but, in being head of our law, the position is denied to any and all other would be holders – a protection so many of our congenitally-uninformed demonstrably lack the cerebral talent necessary to grasp, understand or appreciate.
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December 26, 2020 9:55am
- MCos
  
  Under the present arrangement a New Zealander can never be Head of State of our own country.
  Their was a time when having a mutual HoS with the UK meant something, but that was effectively swept aside when they joined the EEC.
  These days I’m not sure what we gain beyond being in the commonwealth.
  BTW
  I don’t know why the position of President should be controversial. The only GG appointment that caused some muttering was Holyoake or the there could be an election.
  
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  December 26, 2020 12:21pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    I don’t know why the position of President should be controversial.
    
    And why must we just swap the Governor-General with a President? Why couldn’t we take the opportunity to put in place a Swiss-like republic, with a seven- or nine-person National Council? (The largely ceremonial position of President would rotate annually amongst the National Councillors.)
    
    The National Council would be the Executive branch of government; parliament the Legislative.
    
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    December 26, 2020 1:46pm
    - Nickc2
      
      The answer is quite simple. If we swap the queen for a president, we will get Helen Clark as president for life of the Peoples’ Republic of New Zealand only with less emphasis on ‘Peoples’. I would much rather maintain NZ as a democracy thanks.
      Just imagine, Clark as President and Ardern as Prime Minister? Far too scary for me.
      
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      December 26, 2020 1:59pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Relax, Nick.
        
        New Zealand abandoning the British monarchy in favour of becoming a republic, is at least 20 years away, probably 20 more.
        
        Put Helen Clark to the back of your mind – she will almost certainly have no further impact (of any consequence) on your life.
        
        And, by the time the prime minister is in any position to be president, you (I suspect) and I (definitely) will not be in a position to care.
        
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        December 26, 2020 2:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        After the quasi-republic we now have with an absentee monarch over a constitutional monarchy, I would rank best the Swiss council idea pointed out by Steve Todd, with a rotating presidency.
        
        The Swiss canton system also gives locals good democracy. Here’s a description- from the link that follows it:
        
        Switzerland … is divided into 26 areas called cantons. The cantons are comprised of approximately 3000 communes. A central or federal government links the cantons into one unified country, but this central government controls only those affairs which are of interest to all the cantons.
        
        These matters of common interest include foreign policy, national defence, federal railways and the mint. All other issues – education, labour, economic and welfare policies and so on – are determined by the governments of the cantons and communes. Each canton has its own parliament and constitution and they differ substantially from one another.
        
        The communes, which vary in size from a few hundred to more than a million people, also have their own legislative and executive councils. The cantonal and communal governments are elected by the citizens resident in their areas of jurisdiction.
        
        https://liberty-intl.org/2000/03/12/the-swiss-cantonal-system-a-model-democracy/
        
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        December 26, 2020 3:50pm
SB2

Trump performs the unthinkable pardoning the Blackwater contractors responsible for committing the infamous Nisour Square massacre that occurred on September 16, 2007,

Can a Pardon Be a War Crime?: When Pardons Themselves Violate the Laws of War

https://www.justsecurity.org/64288/can-a-pardon-be-a-war-crime-when-pardons-themselves-violate-the-laws-of-war/
Given that Eric Prince the CEO of Blackwater Security Contractors is a close confident and pal of Trump there is no surprise

It is important to recall what happened on that day when a group of Blackwater Contractors went out from the Green Zone, unauthorised leading to a wild west styled shoot up killing at least 14 -17 innocent Iraqi civilians,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisour_Square_massacre
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December 26, 2020 10:11am
- Fletch
  
  And I suppose it is fine that both Bill Clinton and Obama pardoned FALN terrorists?
  
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  December 26, 2020 10:42am
  - kowtow
    
    Tony Blair basically pardoned the Provos who’d spent 30 years murdering soldiers, policemen and hundreds of civilians , Irish , British and of all denominations…….
    
    They’re mates of Bidens’ , the Provos that is.
    
    25 3
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    December 26, 2020 11:24am
    - Paulus
      
      Biden has always been a loyal Irish Catholic and has supported Ireland publically against Boris recently before the US election to encourage the Irish US Voters to vote for him.
      
      8 2
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      December 26, 2020 1:34pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Get it right – Biden is a Catholic in name only – a CINO. he goes against the teachings of the Church in many things he does. Because of this, he is refused Holy Communion by most priests and bishops.
        Fake Catholic.
        
        4 1
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        December 26, 2020 5:42pm
  - Mike
    
    Whataboutism is always a go to when you have no defence for your idol’s latest smack in the face to justice,
    
    6 10
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    December 26, 2020 11:47am
  - SB2
    
    The facts.
    “Oscar Lopez Rivera, the Puerto Rican nationalist who had served 35 years of a 55-year conviction for the crime of “seditious conspiracy,” as well as attempted robbery, explosives and vehicle-theft charges.
    ..”
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/oscar-lopez-commutation-barack-obama-214685
    
    Unlike the Blackwater contractors who killed innocent and unarmed civilians with out just cause,
    
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    December 26, 2020 11:47am
    - Fletch
      
      Trump pardoned no domestic terrorists, unlike Obama and Clinton.
      
      3 2
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      December 26, 2020 7:46pm
kowtow

Smoking a post Christmas dinner cigar yesterday I couldn’t help but reflect on the efforts that our major parties , the GNats included , went to to delegitimise tobacco as dangerous / life threatening etc while this parliament has gone to the opposite extreme of legitimising the use of harmful narcotics for young people at noise festivals which are themselves probably nothing more than a front to traffic dangerous drugs or an inculturalisation to use same…….
24 6
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December 26, 2020 10:16am
- fernglas
  
  1600 die a year from lung cancer. 1 from psychedelics and 32 from amphetamine type stimulants.
  
  9 7
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  December 26, 2020 11:00am
  - kowtow
    
    And what of mental health ?
    
    10 3
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    December 26, 2020 11:21am
  - Jack5
    
    Fernglas, presumably your figures would be those of drug overdoses.
    
    There is much misery and death from drugs beyond that. For example, among schizophrenics who were genetically susceptible to having their disease triggered by cannabis use.
    
    13 2
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    December 26, 2020 11:31am
- MCos
  
  “festivals . . . . are themselves probably nothing more than a front to traffic dangerous drugs”
  
  You’re getting confused with the Tour de France.
  
  5 2
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  December 26, 2020 1:20pm
  - Wimpston peeders
    
    Um no the festival statement is very true, i honestly dont know 1 person who went to a festival without drugs, the music is only there to enhance the high.
    
    1 2
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    December 26, 2020 4:39pm
Inandout

SB2, you really are uninformed.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics
20 3
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December 26, 2020 10:27am
RW Capitalist

How our media are trying to rewrite history.
Brexit…now achieved
Claiming that Margret Thatcher supported entry into the EU
She did not
She supported the far more common sense “Common market”…effectively a free trade agreement.
She did not support any form of European govt.
She supported the independence of Nations.
It was Tony Blair who thew Britain head long into the EU and the disastrous result of massive payments into the EU parliament and an 80 bill pound trade deficit.
They dodged a bullet on taking up the Euro
afterall Blair wanted it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/16/euro.eu
31 3
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December 26, 2020 10:38am
Fletch

Newt Gingrich on why he will never accept Biden as president (and rightly so).

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/21/why-i-will-not-accept-joe-biden-as-president/
22 5
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December 26, 2020 10:41am
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, when I heard that Biden garnered more votes than Obama ever did I joined the disbelievers. This feeble man rarely gathered more than a score of people at his outside meetings.
  
  25 7
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  December 26, 2020 11:00am
  - SB2
    
    Inandout, the Trump rallies were to no avail.
    
    He lost fair and square.
    
    Candidates
    
    Electoral votes
    Vote %
    Vote count
    
    Joe Biden
    Democratic Party
    306
    51.4%
    81,283,485
    
    Donald Trump
    Republican Party
    232
    46.9%
    74,223,744
    
    Move on!
    
    5 25
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    December 26, 2020 11:58am
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      You forgot 1 category.
      
      Democrat fraud 100%
      
      3 3
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      December 26, 2020 7:43pm
- SB2
  
  Let him. Gingrich is a man of little or no consequence.
  
  3 21
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  December 26, 2020 11:55am
  - Mike
    
    Oh, he is, or rather was, a man of consequence. Gingrich was one of the main figures responsible for the current era of damaging hyperpartisanship in US politics.
    
    5 11
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    December 26, 2020 12:07pm
RW Capitalist

Truck bomb in Nashville?
10 1
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December 26, 2020 10:46am
- Maggie Pie
  
  YUP. Described as….. “an intentional act”
  3 taken to hospital. Injuries said to be ‘not serious’.
  Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
  
  11 5
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  December 26, 2020 11:02am
- RJ
  
  Will be interesting to see what comes of this, seems a bit strange.
  
  4 2
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  December 26, 2020 1:37pm
  - RJ
    
    Interesting, so it looks like the At&t building could of been the target, as there is a story not hitting the news yet that a major emergency cellular switch was taken down in Nashville. This is firstnet, the cellular network for first responders.
    
    Considering that a 15 minute warning was given before the explosion, this is interesting
    
    4 1
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    December 26, 2020 9:12pm
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      Trial run for something bigger methinks. I doubt next time will have a warning, the ones behind this were sending a message and demonstrating their capabilities.
      
      I wouldnt read into the target too much as its likely just a diversion from the main attack.
      
      2 1
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      December 26, 2020 9:23pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Destroying evidence?
      
      1 1
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      December 26, 2020 9:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

NZ’s growth industry
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433625/number-of-people-joining-gangs-increased-by-at-least-13-percent-this-year-police-data-shows
19 1
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December 26, 2020 11:02am
- oldfella
  
  Maggy, gangs mainly full of Ayoteearower’s ‘chosen’ children. Maybe we just need to give them more money and privileges? That should do it.
  
  23 2
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  December 26, 2020 11:15am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Sarcasm taxed in 3…2…1
    
    12 2
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    December 26, 2020 11:58am
- Wimpston peeders
  
  Caught up with a mate xmas eve, he had just teturned from visiting whanau up north. A few of his nephews have gone into gangs ang crime, talking to one he was blown away with their earnings.
  On a good day 1 guy was making a bit over 50k profit, but that was at the start of his dealings and now has a severe habit but still has eyewatering earnings but nothing to really show for it as its squandered on bullshit.
  Its the insane amount of meth money thats the lure for the gamg increase, only expect it to get worse, far far worse before it gets better
  
  9 4
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  December 26, 2020 1:46pm
  - MCos
    
    “On a good day 1 guy was making a bit over 50k profit”
    Where does a bloke sign up?
    
    5 1
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    December 26, 2020 4:27pm
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      At your local mongrel mob, head hunters or comanchero gang chapter.
      
      Its easy to see why gun violence is becoming so common when that sort of money is being made by relatively low level gang members, from the dole to 50k a day theyll do anything to protect that, well actually theyre protecting their means to fund a drug habbit that costs several thousand per day. Most are that fried they dont understand what theyve got in terms of money.
      
      5 1
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      December 26, 2020 6:29pm
Justitia

[Once is sufficient thank you. Mod.]
0 7
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December 26, 2020 11:07am
- Justitia
  
  Dear Moderator, by mistake this morning (bleary eyed perhaps?) I made my post on the Malthusian origins of climate change catastrophism under yesterday’s general debate and then tried to transfer it to today’s debate. Perhaps you could permit this as a convenience for your esteemed readers?
  
  [Mod: Please feel free to link to it]
  
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  December 26, 2020 4:30pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was just saying he’s thinking about selling his John Lennon memorabilia on eBay.
Imagine all the PayPal.
10 7
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December 26, 2020 11:18am
Brian McDonald

Is Giuliani now releasing press statements from the funny farm?
3 24
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December 26, 2020 11:22am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sabotage? Who would do this?
Description is in the link.
https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/worlds-second-largest-hydroxychloroquine-plant-in-taiwan-blows-up/?
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December 26, 2020 11:23am
rouppe

Martin van Beynen must feel like his tenure at Stuff is ending anyway, because this heresy isn’t going to make him any friends.

The shift has created a climate in which free speech going against the trend is condemned as racism and continued oppression. It must be difficult working in the public service, where opposition to the current orthodoxy will be career suicide. Certainly it’s not conducive to debate.
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December 26, 2020 11:45am
- oldfella
  
  Rouppe, at the bottom of that Martin van Beynen article Stuffed made this pitch for our support. Best laugh I’ve had all day as it has to be a piss take. Yes?
  +++
  “Stuff reflects the perspectives of all New Zealanders. We’re a bit like the classic Kiwi bag of pick ‘n’ mix – all the colours, flavours and shapes that make up our diverse islands.
  We believe in freedom of speech and in the importance of everyone having a say in a healthy democracy. We aim to give you the whole picture to help you form your own view of the world.
  But we need your help to keep doing it. With regular supporters we can continue to feature columnists who represent Aotearoa, to publish fresh perspectives and cartoonists, and to challenge the status quo.”
  
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  December 26, 2020 12:28pm
  - Positan
    
    re Rouppe: With regard to Stuff’s “policy” on free-speech restricting matters like its denying of column-space to those who question the validity of our “approach” to climate change, it simply HAS to be a piss take !!!
    
    Without question, Stuff’s editors are “lysenko-ists” as per Simon’s early piece above – they see their leftist ideology as superior to the constant questioning and appraisal of scientific input.
    
    12 1
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    December 26, 2020 1:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump gets Covid and my few leftie friends laugh.
Guiliani gets Covid and they laugh.
Biden gets Covid and it’s not funny anymore.
How does that work?
18 6
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December 26, 2020 12:19pm
- fernglas
  
  It doesn’t work. Biden doesn’t have Covid.
  
  4 1
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  December 26, 2020 3:49pm
  - sooty
    
    Bugger!
    
    3 4
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    December 26, 2020 4:12pm
  - Wimpston peeders
    
    Itll happen when the dems want kamala to take over tho !
    
    2 0
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    December 26, 2020 9:24pm
Maggie Pie

Nothing to see here.
.
It’s all in your tiny mind.

Time to move on.

https://twitter.com/HillelNeuer/status/1342191483064102914
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December 26, 2020 12:40pm
curry4me

https://WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/WATCH?V=UE-IKEPZH7Y

Is China America’s “Mortal Enemy?” | Zoom Shares Your Data With China.

Is China America’s “mortal enemy?” That’s according to Peter Navarro, speaking as US China relations remain influx after the US presidential election. Zoom is sharing American user data with China. CEO Eric Yuan isn’t doing much about it. This comes after Zoom shutdown video chats about the Tiananmen Square Massacre. The US blacklists more than 60 Chinese companies tied to the Chinese military. And China is running out of coal after a tariffs war between China Australia. And a growing crackdown on Chinese tech companies like Ant Financial and Jack Ma’s Alibaba. That and more on this week’s China news headlines. It’s freedoms mortal enemy. Not just Americas.
8 3
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December 26, 2020 12:57pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfIim10-DtY

Clock ticking For Tik Tok.

CEO of Gazprom-Media, Russia’s leading media holding has announced that the holding has purchased a new service. He disclosed that the app will support sharing of short vertical videos, similar to China’s TikTok.
5 3
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December 26, 2020 12:57pm
Don Beckett

The real uncensored Queen’s message 😉

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvY-Abd2FfM

very well done.
4 4
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December 26, 2020 1:22pm
- oldfella
  
  Don, this video explains how Channel 4 produced that deep fake Queen’s message. Fascinating, but also just a bit scary.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alc6R_UfPkc&ab_channel=Channel4
  
  2 1
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  December 26, 2020 5:00pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    It really is just a bit of satire – I thought it was quite funny – as it was intended to be.
    
    3 3
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    December 26, 2020 5:46pm
Maggie Pie

Thort I’d share this with the group 😛
Ma has just TXT thru this joke she heard…..

Jesus was in a foul mood after shagging his new girlfriend for the first time.
She asked him, “What’s up with you?”
“Oh, nothing” Jesus replied. “It’s just really fuking annoying to have some chick scream your dad’s name while she’s having an orgasm”
7 19
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December 26, 2020 1:25pm
- lifesgood
  
  I’m not one that gets offended easily but I have to say that’s pretty offensive.
  
  9 8
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  December 26, 2020 2:10pm
  - oldfella
    
    Me too, Maggie. I agree with lifesgood that it’s pretty offensive, but in saying that I’m sure we’ll both defend your right to offend us, and anyone else, without starting a campaign to cancel you or otherwise shut you down.
    Not sure if all the KB mods on here take that tack with some of the comments they bounce – including a bit of my stuff from time to time.
    And you might want to steer clear of any similar jokes that mention Allah or Mohammed. 😉
    
    8 3
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    December 26, 2020 5:08pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I wouldn’t be too quick to criticize the Mods if I were you ‘oldfella’.
      TBH, some of your posts are a bit beyond the pale 😀
      
      2 8
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      December 26, 2020 6:10pm
- Wimpston peeders
  
  I thought the oh god thing was reserved for porn and “good” catholic girls?
  
  2 5
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  December 26, 2020 6:49pm
Jack5

Iraq’s Christian population is under 400,000 – down from 1.4 million 30 years ago.

You would think they might have shown up more in the refugee intake of Western countries.

The Times notes that it’s 10 years since Al-Qaeda Christmas-service massacre at the Lady of Salvation church in Baghdad killed 58 worshippers.

Since then, at least eight churches have closed in Baghdad.

The Times reports that in a speech in London last year the Rt Rev Bashar Warda, the Chaldean archbishop of Arbil, the Kurdish capital, accused Britain’s Christian leaders of failing to protect the Iraq’s dwindling Christian community. According to Mr Warda, the population shrank 83 per cent in 16 years.
10 2
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December 26, 2020 1:58pm
- GazzaW
  
  I worked with some Iraqi Christians who emigrated to NZ during the Saddam era. There is a small community of them in Auckland who maintain a low profile. The ones that I have met are very hardworking and loyal Kiwis.
  
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  December 26, 2020 3:20pm
Maggie Pie

Not entirely sure whether or not New Zealand has entered into an agreement to secure supplies of the ‘MODERNA’ vaccine…..but a timely warning for some just in case.

https://mol.im/a/9087415
6 5
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December 26, 2020 2:28pm
- RJ
  
  Thank god we still have photoshopping. Imagine the world we would live in if we had to see woman’s magazines with Helen Clark and her daughter Jacinda on the cover not photoshopped.
  
  9 4
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  December 26, 2020 2:42pm
  - sooty
    
    Wouldn’t work the punters would run a mile and the woke would go broke!
    
    5 1
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    December 26, 2020 4:09pm
- Wimpston peeders
  
  You gunna warn your partners mum?
  Imagine that, a nosejob and botox and get a jab the day before xmas… would look like rudolph the red nose reindeer 🙂
  
  4 2
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  December 26, 2020 6:56pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    What about Bruce…. the brown nose reindeer?
    Tethered directly behind Rudolph, but can’t stop as quickly as he does 😛
    
    3 3
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    December 26, 2020 8:11pm
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      Deer poo is usually black tho mags, perhaps bruce has been brown nosing santa?
      
      1 1
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      December 26, 2020 9:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Australians have always seemed a more eloquent lot than NZers.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/26/spanker-knob-bullshit-hill-and-guys-dirty-hole-are-all-real-places-in-australia
8 2
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December 26, 2020 2:49pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  LOL!! I’m pretty sure that aussie guy who comments here calling himself ‘IC500’ would be from Spanker Knob.
  
  11 5
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  December 26, 2020 3:04pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    NO NO NO
    … [Deleted – escalating it to name calling abuse is not ok. Mod.]
    
    1 5
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    December 26, 2020 3:23pm
Jack5

While New Zealand recruits the low fruit (pickers), Finland targets high-end migrants – technology workers.

Finland already has the world’s highest number of digital business start-ups per capita. Tech multinationals such as Google, Bayer and GE Healthcare have also recently opened campuses in the country.

Now Finland is offering potential tech migrants trial 90-day moves to the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/25/thousands-apply-to-be-a-finn-for-90-days-in-migration-scheme
10 1
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December 26, 2020 3:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Some fun. Santa calls NZ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA0dvaDcqA4
4 6
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December 26, 2020 3:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oooh err, a downticker. That must be stupid boy, scanning the 170 comments to downtick some more. Hand off cock little boy
  
  7 7
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  December 26, 2020 4:27pm
  - Mike
    
    Sticks and stones could break your bones. but the downticks really hurt you…
    
    5 8
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    December 26, 2020 5:11pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Leave your dick alone Mike. You get shitloads of downticks, I get a few
      
      6 4
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      December 26, 2020 6:19pm
      - RJ
        
        Be careful, the mods didn’t get a Christmas bonus this year and seem to be out in force today
        
        3 3
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        December 26, 2020 6:33pm
      - Wimpston peeders
        
        No xmas bonus for them? Bugger i guess the nats didnt pay their invoice after their pollster called it early for labour 🙂
        
        3 4
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        December 26, 2020 7:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Donald Trump Junior. Now we know where the crazy NZ Govt gets their crazy ideas from – the American Swamp.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=saved&v=1123492381402726
6 6
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December 26, 2020 4:22pm
- Mike
  
  Do you reckon junior will be on the ticket for 2024 to Make America Great Again, Again?
  
  5 4
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  December 26, 2020 5:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Jaspinda Ardern.
    Opps nope. Candace Owens 2024
    
    4 3
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    December 26, 2020 6:21pm
- SB2
  
  [Mod: don’t bait other commenters]
  
  1 8
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  December 26, 2020 5:57pm
Maggie Pie

Probably my fave song ever.

https://youtu.be/HCjNJDNzw8Y

Me sitting at the lights. Moon-Roof open. Vol at full noise. It’s amazing the looks I get.
It’s already had more than 1.7 BILLION hits on YouTube!!
One thing I did learn today, is that in the city of Havana, police raided the houses of singers and artists who dared critisize the Communist Regime. Yet next week, CUBA joins the ‘UN Human Rights Council’, along with Chynaa.

Just saying.
5 5
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December 26, 2020 4:44pm
- RJ
  
  I saw an article the other day on the hazards of having the moon roof open
  
  Newshub
  
  2 2
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  December 26, 2020 4:57pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOLLLL!! 😛
    
    (The worstest thing that ever happened to me, was when a bus pulled up alongside once, and some Ahole threw a half-eaten egg sandwich out of the window onto my passenger seat.)
    
    3 5
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    December 26, 2020 5:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Inconvenient information revealed on an afternoon of a Public Holiday.

Taxpayers have stumped up an extra $550 million to pay public-sector employees in the last year.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433638/13-percent-rise-in-cost-of-public-servants-salaries
14 3
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December 26, 2020 4:46pm
- Mike
  
  You think RNZ has deliberately held back this story till this afternoon?
  
  7 5
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  December 26, 2020 5:04pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh, I’m sure that the Journalist spent all day yesterday ringing up SSC to get the figures from some poor put-upon Public Servant holding the fort.
    Then our intrepid Journo bashed out the story this morning, sent it for Editorial overview and broadcast it at first opportunity.
    
    9 3
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    December 26, 2020 7:04pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      So, you have no idea at all…
      
      2 12
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      December 26, 2020 7:59pm
      - RJ
        
        You’re sounding more and more like that troll that constantly would constantly stalk Maggy rather than use commonsense.
        
        8 2
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        December 26, 2020 8:20pm
    - marcw
      
      LOL Maggy, looks like you need to use the sarc tag for the Sheldon Cooper’s of our population here.
      
      4 3
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      December 26, 2020 8:04pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It’s a worry isn’t it?
        
        6 2
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        December 26, 2020 8:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Are the leftie trolls here being paid to troll 24/7?
9 6
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December 26, 2020 5:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mike and Stupid boy, and Todd and the others with silly names; when do you sleep????
  
  8 5
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  December 26, 2020 5:14pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    What are you talking about, Otto?
    
    Point to one of my comments today, or even over the last week, that anyone would say constitutes trolling.
    
    Furthermore, I have scrolled down through all your comments, above, and the up / down ticks are all green / red, respectively.
    
    Explain yourself!
    
    7 4
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    December 26, 2020 5:34pm
Alan Wilkinson

More imported murderous religious enemies of free speech;:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123821112/wattle-downs-assault-victim-is-punjabi-talkback-radio-host-harnek-neki
4 2
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December 26, 2020 7:02pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Alan, are you sure you have adopted the right “take” on this?
  
  The victim may well be “imported”, and clearly exercises his right to free speech (via his radio station), but how do you know his attackers were “imported murderous religious enemies of [the victim’s right to] free speech”? Because that’s what your words say, despite the fact that the tone of your comment seems to be anti the victim!
  
  Did you, perchance, jump in without thinking?
  
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  December 26, 2020 7:47pm
  - RJ
    
    Although the stories do point out threats and death threats from people within their community who do not support what he is saying. Either way hopefully they catch the people who did this.
    
    5 3
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    December 26, 2020 7:57pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Well, yes, from the linked article, there was this, “Singh claims his friend had been getting numerous death threats because of an opinion he gave on his radio programme.”
      
      But that, on its own, is nowhere near enough to enable Alan to assume anything about who the victim’s attackers were.
      
      But I agree, let’s hope they catch them.
      
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      December 26, 2020 8:17pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        It will just be a matter of looking in the right places….
        
        https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/432899656176381952
        
        2 3
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        December 26, 2020 8:28pm
      - RJ
        
        The herald gives you a better view from the friend, but I do agree, although you can get a better idea from the article it’s impossible to know much about the attackers. His religious community will contain immigrants and people born here
        
        He’s okay, his condition is stable and he’s at Middlemore. We believe so [he was stabbed]. The motivation behind the attack obviously has to do with what he says on the radio, what opinion on different issues and topics which have been discussed on the radio.
        
        “Mainly on this radio programme a lot of religious issues have been discussed. So let’s just say a lot of traditional myths that people believe in, and we on the radio try to explain to people to look at it in a practical way other than the mythical point of view that most people have.
        
        “Obviously that would upset someone who is religiously fanatic, and someone who looks at the religion in a mythical point of view as a lot of religions do.”
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/radio-host-stabbed-multiple-times-in-south-auckland-driveway-in-attack/VOBDA7P37ARE7KOEGLMQFUFKDA/
        
        2 2
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        December 26, 2020 8:30pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Wow, thanks RJ.
        
        That’s pretty worrying stuff.
        
        4 1
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        December 26, 2020 8:54pm
  - Swifty
    
    I’ve had a look at this today Steve, and spoken to Sikh mates, it appears that this is Sikh on Sikh violence.
    
    Any cursory glance at his various social media accounts reveal hatred, threats and intimidation from other members of the Sikh community both in NZ and overseas.
    
    It appears that this bloke has pissed off a number of people and they have finally responded. They want him silenced.
    
    An appalling development in NZ.
    
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    December 26, 2020 8:08pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Thanks for that, Swifty.
      
      I just wish Alan had put up a comment that better reflected what the article he linked to, said.
      
      If he knew more, he should have told us how he knew more.
      
      And you’re right, it’s an appalling development.
      
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      December 26, 2020 8:50pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        It was obvious enough from the linked article. All you had to do was read it as I did. I’m not into spoon-feeding.
        
        1 0
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        December 26, 2020 9:38pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        No, it wasn’t.
        
        This: More imported murderous religious enemies of free speech, was based on an assumption, by you, that was not warranted solely by the content of the article you linked to.
        
        I don’t need spoon-feeding, just accuracy.
        
        2 0
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        December 26, 2020 10:05pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        You got accuracy. You are just complaining it wasn’t spelt out with a picture for you.
        
        0 1
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        December 27, 2020 11:32am
    - Wimpston peeders
      
      Arent sikh supposed to be a tolerant bunch of folk?
      Aw well play stupid games win stupid prizes
      
      1 0
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      December 26, 2020 9:30pm
Max Sky

The Herald reports that public servants salaries costs have risen 13% while a lot of people are suffering under the deliberate over reaction to the Covid flu. https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FMfcgxwKkHZTHwBDZhWfnFJMBXZGmHQX

[Max, your link is wrong (goes to Gmail). Mod]
2 2
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December 26, 2020 7:10pm
- Max Sky
  
  The Herald reports that public servants salaries costs have risen 13% while a lot of people are suffering under the deliberate over reaction to the Covid flu
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rise-of-13-in-cost-of-public-servants-salaries/WBKVKSVQ5HO7EDR67UPI62WD7A/
  
  3 1
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  December 26, 2020 7:44pm
  - Wimpston peeders
    
    Hmmm equality and all that stuff…
    
    Welcome to the party of saying stuff and doing the opposite.
    
    2 1
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    December 26, 2020 8:29pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You and Maggy Wassilief might benefit from reading the original news release about public service workforce data.
  
  4 9
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  December 26, 2020 8:19pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    That’s my point, isn’t it, MMA?
    
    Peter Hughes released the info on the 9 Dec. 2020.
    
    Why has RNZ waited until 3:30pm Boxing Day to reveal some of the info…and The Herald 5.01pm Boxing Day?
    
    10 2
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    December 26, 2020 8:51pm
- Max Sky
  
  Thank you Mod please delete earlier incorrect post and see below, I appreciate your help.
  
  0 0
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  December 26, 2020 9:40pm

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