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December 21, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 December 2020

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General Debate

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Maggie Pie

BREAKING

‘Driving Home For Christmas’ now banned on all UK radio stations.

https://youtu.be/EvDxSW8mzvU
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December 21, 2020 8:02am
- GazzaW
  
  ….and a Happy Christmas to you Maggie from all of us Kiwis who have their nearest and dearest working in the UK and facing a very bleak Christmas this year.
  
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  December 21, 2020 9:14am
- Fletch
  
  Great song.
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:25am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Breaking
  Driving or flying through any border in Australia is now banned or need a permit except if you are a kiwi you can fly in and do as you please.
  One state excepted NSW. Have never closed their borders.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:14am
- SB2
  
  Is that a buzzsaw in the background?
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:36am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pathetic, stupid girl. You have no idea of a good singing voice.
    EG, Lee Hazelwood.
    Now fuck off
    
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    December 21, 2020 4:41pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Guess a man with a deep singing voice scare the fuck out of you.
      Here sweetie.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N9So0nW6ec
      
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      December 21, 2020 4:47pm
Scott

Was the 2020 presidential election stolen? Let’s look at the facts at a high level. If Pres Trump won 74 million votes and Joe Biden won 81 million votes then 73% of eligible voters actually voted in this year’s election. That is the highest voter turnout in the USA since 1900!

So we are asked to believe that Joe Biden who never drew any crowds, who stayed in his basement, who excites nobody, got more votes than Barack Obama and more votes than any other candidate in presidential history and inspired a record turnout not seen for over 100 years??

Here is the thing. There was a sophisticated Democrat machine that manufactured millions of votes for Biden. This election was stolen.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/update-lies-top-lies-simple-math-proves-numbers-dont-add-media-biden-now-claim-73-turnout-time-high-since-1900/
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December 21, 2020 8:02am
- fernglas
  
  I don’t know why it hasn’t occurred to anyone that the reason voter turnout was so high was that Trump was such a polarising and controversial figure that more people than usual on both sides decided their vote was important. Biden didn’t inspire anything. Trump did.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:23am
  - SGA
    
    Yep – controversial, polarising, divisive, whatever. I think the effect that had on the election turnout has occurred to everybody other than those desparately seeking excuses for Trump’s loss.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:23pm
  - fernglas
    
    Plus Gateway pundit is a little confused. The WAPO figures are based on eligible, rather than registered voters. Lots of Americans aren’t registered.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:36pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yeh, but Trump gained 11 million votes more than in 2016. About 3 times more than Obama got when he won his second election. I will never believe that Joe Biden won legally.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:10pm
    - SGA
      
      I will never believe that Joe Biden won legally.
      
      We know, Fletch, we know. The Archangel Gabriel and the Celestial Choir could turn up on your doorstep to tell you, and within 10 minutes you’d be on Kiwiblog telling us how the Democrats or Chines or Soros or whoever had got to them too. Nothing, absolutely nothing, will shake your conviction – that’s what make you such a good conspiracy theorist.
      
      In contrast, if we see a tidal wave of people facing criminal charges for rigging an election (which can happen independently of the election outcome, and whether or not if affect its outcome), then I will change my mind.
      
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      December 21, 2020 1:36pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Except the Archangel Gabriel would say no such thing. He voted for Trump. 😆
        
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        December 21, 2020 5:00pm
      - SGA
        
        Sadly, you probably think he did.
        
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        December 21, 2020 5:13pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It’s good that your imaginary friends are on the side of Trump, Don. I hope that make you feel better.
        
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        December 21, 2020 6:14pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Fletch – just ignore the trolls until Jan 6th. Ignoring them will make them go apeshit.
      School is finished, so this blog will be plagued with commie teachers
      
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      December 21, 2020 4:33pm
- SB2
  
  Scott, to beleive all that it pays to be a tad paranoid of the Trump supporter variety as your link suggests.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:46am
- Steve Todd
  
  See my response to Otto, at General Debate, Sat 19 Dec 20, at 11:16AM, for somewhat more accurate figures.
  
  See also, fernglas’s response, immediately above.
  
  The simple fact of the matter is, a majority of the American people (51.27%, in fact), just knew that they had to get out there and vote Trump from office; otherwise, disaster would surely ensue.
  
  Therefore, it didn’t matter that his opponent was Joe Biden, because, regardless, the opposing candidate was always going to be the ‘not-Trump’ candidate, which was all that was needed for victory.
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Almost Christmas – so I am not responding to the TDS trolls until after maybe Jan 6th. Your tunnel vision is so bad you should not even drive a car.
    You all know who you are.
    Merry Christmas.
    
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    December 21, 2020 4:31pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Oh Steve Todd, the ‘your tunnel vision’ was not directed at you – is is a direction to ALL. Sorry.
      
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      December 21, 2020 4:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Scott, tell it to Steve Todd, and let him bullshit you
  
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  December 21, 2020 5:42pm
Simon

Remember when Simon Bridges towards the end of January, ahead of the curve, called for a NZ China travel ban. He was called racist by the left right up until the time Labour closed this border.

Simon Bridges call for NZ China travel ban was attacked by the powerful Chinese Auckland Consul general. The CCP, while China was closed internally, wanted the international plague flights to continue. Bridges was then rolled a few months later.

At a critical time as Ardern slowly got her shit organized for many in National the issue wasn’t dealing with Ardern’s failures and acting as an opposition party for NZ but undermining Bridges so he could be replaced.
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December 21, 2020 8:07am
Albert_Ross

Time to put poor old Guppy out to grass?
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December 21, 2020 8:07am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Not yet, but we have an exciting crop of batsmen there.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:08am
- redflagged
  
  The Nathan Astle of our age.
  
  Many low scores, then a hundred when his head is on the chopping block.
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:50pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Lol red, with a comment like that, it can be safely said that what you know about cricket could be written on the back of a very small postage stamp with a felt tip pen with a very large tip.
    For interests sake, Astle only played a handful of 20/20 games, and in other cricket, was a fine attacking player who was generally consistently good. He only had one really bad trot from my memory in tests and ODI’s, and that was just before he retired. Plus he could bowl a bit and was an outstanding fielder. And at the time, there was no one better than him to replace him with.
    
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    December 21, 2020 2:06pm
    - wilderbeast
      
      I’d add he was a better player for NZ than Guptill has been. I think I’m right in saying he still has more ODI hundreds to his name, albeit at a lower average, but he was also a very good test player with 11 hundreds including 150 against Australia at the WACA, the coliseum of Australian cricket. Whereas Guppy never got test cricket sussed. I’m a huge fan of Guppy too, no flies on him at all. Unfortunately though the signs are there that he’s not seeing it like he used to.
      
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      December 21, 2020 3:41pm
hullkiwi

New strain of China flu, or not so new according to this morning’s news. The Brits have known about it since September. The were testing it at Portland Down to confirm whether the vaccines work against it. They don’t.

European countries are closing borders with the UK, but it is all too late give the strain of the virus has been spreading since September.

Brilliant, you couldn’t make up a “BigPharma” story like this if you tried!
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December 21, 2020 8:09am
- fernglas
  
  Bullshit on the story that the vaccines don’t work on this virus. Show us your source.
  ” European Union experts believe existing vaccines against coronavirus are effective against the new fast-spreading strain identified in Britain, Germany’s health minister said Sunday.”
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:26am
  - krazykiwi
    
    From The Telegraph:
    
    [UK] Government scientists are in a race to prove that vaccines can fend off the new strain of Covid-19 as experts warned the variant could render jabs “less effective”.
    
    Scientists at the Porton Down facility in Wiltshire are growing samples of the new strain before adding serum taken from vaccinated patients to test the response. The results are expected in a “couple of weeks,” Whitehall sources said.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:18pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I guess it’s possible the German’s have known about the variant longer and therefore have better evidence in support of their confidence.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:20pm
  - burt
    
    Well Stuff seem to be reporting that urgent testing is under way and results are a few weeks away.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300189611/scientists-race-to-ensure-vaccine-will-work-against-new-covid-strain
    
    But hey, you know these existing vaccines work so you’re obviously way ahead of the UK government scientists. Go you.
    
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    December 21, 2020 2:05pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    BBC, being interviewed on Morning Report, this morning.
    
    fernglas, Covid is a virus that has mutated several times during the past year. Just like Flu and Norovirus (which funnily enough has recently seen an outbreak in NZ, despite MIQ) the vaccines for Covid will not get ahead of the virus. Despite the publicity, scientists have only been successful against two viruses (and one of those was by luck, rather than good science).
    
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    December 21, 2020 3:24pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Here’s what the science says. I think the last line is for you hullkiwi – don’t panic.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/health/medical/the-coronavirus-is-mutating-what-does-that-mean-for-us/ar-BB1c59I5?ocid=msedgdhp
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:08pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Hmm – MSN quoting the NY Times, quoting someone from a cancer research facility. No thanks, I prefer my “news” with a side of reality and a sprinkling of reasoning and facts.
    
    The accuracy and integrity of a website is often evidenced by the links and advertisements at the bottom of the article. In this case, it’s the usual dross, scams and clickbait – hearing aids “sweeping New Zealand”, how to “get an income by investing NZ$250 in Netflix in Napier” and “Why Kiwis are snapping up this $89 portable AC.”
    
    I’ve never even lived in Napier, and haven’t visited there (or browsed any businesses there) for months.
    
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    December 21, 2020 4:44pm
softail 1450

“Jupiter and Saturn” aligning, Astronomy Domine ,Pink Floyd , from “The piper at the gates of dawn” 1967 which We still possess and proves what an old bastard I am.
The king is dead,Long live Syd Barrett…
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December 21, 2020 8:14am
Happychappy

Friday seems to be Jacinda Ardern and Labours day to release story’s and despicable lies they have told for several months so what have they got apart from COVID-19 to release over the Xmas and New Year or will the Coronavirus return to our shores just like it has done in Australia, Britain and other Countries around the World.
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December 21, 2020 8:17am
- Happychappy
  
  Gee I hope this is not the deviate out of the PM’S office trying to force himself on the interns in the festive season.
  https://media.tenor.co/images/d4df0c46cc2576987c5ad8b2a5ac8e4b/tenor.gif?riffsid=TnpJeE9UZ3dNbDlqYUE9PTB6YCamks3gceQsox_vxOS2iTZXwK43-GGv6i-nsvckcQWotupuO9UjqcJlR9TTVofK9FSmpQ7q&fbclid=IwAR0pMePBtGKyBRkisp5B7MpMpw8ugmLE7r9ge5V6_XbL5i3rggoOmXcBOlw
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:15am
Maggy Wassilieff

Tonight and tomorrow night are the best evenings for viewing Jupiter & Saturn’s conjunction – The Great Conjunction

Jupiter is moving closer to Saturn. They will be less than a full-moon’s width apart from December 17th to the 26th. Around the 21st-22nd the gap between then will be just 7′ (seven minutes of arc) wide, about a quarter of a full moon’s width, so they will be in a telescope’s field of view.
https://www.rasnz.org.nz/in-the-sky/the-evening-sky

Wait for the sun to set, and just to the right of where the sun went down, look up a little bit and they’ll be the first two points of light coming out as the sky darkens
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/12/jupiter-and-saturn-aligning-at-night-for-first-time-in-800-years.html
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December 21, 2020 8:19am
- RW Capitalist
  
  So the solar system has…conjunctivitis?
  
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  December 21, 2020 8:38am
  - Okahu
    
    Well, no, but I suppose the prospect is something for you and a couple of close friends to masticate over!
    
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    December 21, 2020 2:45pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I also heard he was caught introducing a 14 year old boy to philately!
      
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      December 21, 2020 4:47pm
- rangitoto
  
  I observed them in the dusk last night. Looking less probable tonight as the clouds have moved in. I’m waiting for the predicted occultation of Saturn by Jupiter on 10th February 7,541. Just need to find something to keep me occupied for a few thousand years.
  
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  December 21, 2020 8:39am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    In 7541AD, kiwibuild will still be a failure . . .
    
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    December 21, 2020 11:38am
- SB2
  
  MW, you stole my thunder but thanks for the great info. I saw the conjuction of the two giant planets last nught clear as a bell. An awsome sight . Once in a lifetime.
  
  Pray for continuing clear skies as the 23rd will be the penultimate night will be Wednesday 23rd Dec when Jupiter and Saturn align together as one.
  
  Mor
  
  It is thought the star of Bethlehem was, in fact, a conjunction of these two plus maybe Mars. Without today’s kind of city light pollution, it would be absolutely spectacular.
  
  I found by looking lower South West with a clear line of sight the conjunction could be easily seen.
  
  Mor information from the Auckland Stardrome Observatory
  
  https://www.stardome.org.nz/great-conjunctions-2020-the-closest-in-400-years/
  
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  December 21, 2020 9:19am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Santa’s been reading your posts this year SB.
    He’s going to bring you a Dictionary.
    
    😀
    
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    December 21, 2020 11:25am
    - IC5000
      
      What’s he got in yours Maggie, a plethora of anti-aging creams and hair dyes? Needs must when nature drives.
      
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      December 21, 2020 11:50am
      - Harriet
        
        The reason yourself, Milky and Stephiboi have been so good this year is so that Santa comes twice. 😎
        
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        December 21, 2020 2:23pm
  - Fletch
    
    I had a look last night but couldn’t see anything. We’re set down a little as well, so it is hard to see the actual horizon out West.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:25pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Don’t wait until it actually gets dark. They will be much lower in the sky by then. Binoculars in the twilight sky will be your best bet provided the clouds play ball.
      
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      December 21, 2020 2:22pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Just to complete the information we all need to have, my Collins A51 2020 diary says that sunset on 19 December was at 2053 hrs, and on 26 December it will be at 2056 hrs.
  
  You’re welcome.
  
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  December 21, 2020 1:03pm
Ehlana

Maggie, do you have a link for that? The one you posted is just to the song itself.
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December 21, 2020 8:19am
- Inandout
  
  Ehlana…no you are joking.
  
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  December 21, 2020 8:27am
- Hollyfield
  
  Maggie may (pun initially accidental) be referring to new lockdowns in London, and closures of the NSW borders. So the “driving home” bit is banned, not the song. I haven’t read either article about London or NSW so don’t know any specifics, only seen the article headers.
  
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  December 21, 2020 8:28am
Maggie Pie

Along with Sir Bob Jones, I see that Nigel Farage also reads my posts here on KB……

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1340342881521971206

Just saying.
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December 21, 2020 8:27am
- sooty
  
  Shit, you’re famous! Maggie Pie.
  One thing I know is you’re better than all nz comedian’s, cos they’re all shit!
  
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  December 21, 2020 8:54am
  - Ruahine
    
    The worst thing about NZs so-called comedians is that without taxpayer money, read NZ on Air, they would be ‘begging’ for a living. Pathetically roped in for a bit of ‘entertainment’ at corporate gigs. No wonder they are so embittered. Mind you if some of them could increase their vocabularies a bit it might help them. IMHO NZ has some of the most unfunny comedians that exist and rely on a lot of obscene language to drum up a ‘laugh’. Mostly lefties living off the taxpayer from their friend Ardern who also quite likes living off of OPM.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:15pm
    - sooty
      
      If them uselees twats were begging, they be dead in 3 days from starvation!
      
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      December 21, 2020 3:28pm
- JackRabbit
  
  I’m more interested in the post on that link that says China recovered from Covid-19 without a vaccine, and questioning why no-one is talking about it.
  
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  December 21, 2020 8:57am
  - krazykiwi
    
    To be fair, the CCP isn’t exactly lily white when it comes to reporting mortality stats. Come to think of it, neither are so-called responsible western nations.
    
    Hey, fun game: Which European county had the least authoritarian response to Covid-19? No, not Sweden. It was Belarus.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:06pm
- SB2
  
  Unlike Sir Bob Nigel Farage has had a rather chequered and dodgy career,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/16/nigel-farage-truth-honesty-brexit-party
  
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  December 21, 2020 9:24am
  - IC5000
    
    So it’s still Nigel without a K? Guess who got pumped and dumped by Boris for keeping his mouth shut during the election.
    
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    December 21, 2020 11:52am
- MCos
  
  “Christmas cancelled. Thank you, China.”
  Nigel Farage
  
  The last country that ruined Xmas for our family here in NZ was Germany.
  I have a postcard that Dad sent his family from some wretched POW camp in Austria one of the four Christmases he spent in captivity.
  The message was cheerful enough in a lonely sort of way.
  
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  December 21, 2020 9:31am
Adroit

News from the Granny today (apologies re: paywall): NZ’s ‘confronting’ history

Apparently, ‘Aotearoa(sic) NZ History is going to be mandatory for students within the next few years. There are seven topics that will be covered:

• The arrival and settlement of Māori, including Pacific navigation, iwi traditions, traditional culture and Māori history.

• First encounters and early colonial history, including Captain Cook’s initial encounters and Māori history after European contact.

• Te Tiriti o Waitangi, including its later legal and political influence.

• Colonisation of, and immigration to, Aotearoa, including the New Zealand Wars.

• Evolving national identity in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, including symbolic changes such as the national anthem and banknotes, women’s suffrage, Māori religious and political movements and NZ’s role in world wars.

• Aotearoa NZ in the late 20th century and evolution of national identity with cultural plurality, including demographic changes, debates about biculturalism and multiculturalism, the 1975 Māori land march, the 1981 Springbok tour and the nuclear-free policy.

• Aotearoa NZ’s role in the Pacific, including colonising Sāmoa, opposing French nuclear tests, and Pacific immigration to NZ.

My concern is this: Will the material taught be a true reflection of what has occurred, or will it be an ideological hit job to further paint whitey as the root of all evil in this world? Of course, there is no need to ask that – we know what the answer will be! No doubt, the narrative will be evil looting and plundering whites turning up to destroy the bucolic, noble lives led by the innocent natives who lived in a state of perfect harmony with each other and nature, learning only the worst traits of Man when the Europeans showed up to teach them. Maori will be the poor, betrayed and aggrieved parties in all deals, innocent of violence or aggression while greedy, dishonest whites wait for every chance to dispossess and betray the locals.

While I have poured it on a bit thick, based upon my discussions with people, the above is not too far from what is commonly believed, so a fertile soil to be furrowed, no doubt.

While there is good in knowing one’s history (the actual history), based upon the current capture of the teaching profession and academia, I am of the opinion that this will simply turn into another Struggle Session of the great Cultural Revolution. In essence the result will be to further dislocate individuals from their past and their ancestors. This will aid in the ongoing balkanization NZ. After all, a tractable and rootless people with no sense of identity are more easily controlled.
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December 21, 2020 8:32am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Please point me to any NZ history book that presents the story you have told in your second paragraph.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:10am
  - Bob
    
    The new (revised) history books to be in schools, and on line by 1st feb 2022.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:45pm
- Flossie
  
  I do wonder how/when/why Christian religion is so significant in Maoridom? Not opposed to it at all, but they speak often of Cultural Appropriation so how come that’s alright?
  I have Maori origins myself but I also have European ancestry and I feel the latter is being ignored – consigned to the dustbin. We live in a global world (covid notwithstanding) and a well rounded international type education is surely more beneficial to all kids.
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:07pm
  - SGA
    
    I do wonder how/when/why Christian religion is so significant in Maoridom? Not opposed to it at all, but they speak often of Cultural Appropriation so how come that’s alright?
    
    Well, Flossie, throughout the world, there were people accompanying colonists called missionairies. The locals didn’t have to appropriate anything – instead, these missionaires took a very active role in trying to get the locals to abandon their religions and adopt Christianity. In some parts of the world, the missionaires were actually quite hostile about the exisitng belief systems.
    
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    December 21, 2020 2:35pm
    - historian
      
      A majority of Maori became Chritian before 1840 when colonists were pretty well non-existent.
      
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      December 21, 2020 11:17pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  If anything, you’ve laid it on a little thinly, IMO. I’m only grateful my school days, and those of my now-adult children (both with practical degrees) are long over.
  
  I really feel for their kids though, if/when they eventually have them.
  
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  December 21, 2020 4:57pm
Fisiani2

Today is the summer solstice and thus the longest day. It is a turning point. And the day that Celtic won an historic Quadruple Treble. 12 trophies in a row.
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December 21, 2020 8:47am
- namron
  
  Being the longest day, that means from tomorrow we are heading back to the shortest day and WINTER!!
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:30pm
  - sooty
    
    Oh no, CCP Virus season is coming!
    
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    December 21, 2020 3:30pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    You could look at it that way, or you could say we’re as far away from winter as we can possibly be.
    
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    December 21, 2020 4:58pm
- Dairy Flat
  
  I was very nervous of the result this morning but the bhoys finally put the jam tarts to the sword on penalties. Got the New Year game to sweat on next; it’s been a rough season thus far.
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:52pm
  - andydownhere
    
    Speak Kiwi man
    
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    December 21, 2020 6:39pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Let’s hope Stevie G ruins the quest for 10 and the SPL becomes more competitive than a one horse race…
    
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    December 21, 2020 7:56pm
Andrei

Whatever happenened to “Fomenting happy Mischief” the one time catch phrase of this blog?

Hmmm

Samizdat in the blogosphere is dead
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December 21, 2020 9:01am
- Fletch
  
  That’s kind of inherent in the constant Trump attacks.
  
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  December 21, 2020 1:26pm
Jack5

How long are we going to take this crap from the Leftist, Woke teaching industry?

Prepare for the great Woke brainwash of your children and grandchildren.

Simon Collins warns in the Herald of the trauma caused in children by the compulsory study of what is ominously named “Aotearoa New Zealand history.”

Collins writes of a study of the effects of this teaching:

Taita College head of social sciences Dr Michael Harcourt asked 1889 students at 20 high schools around the country for their main feeling after reading a passage about the effects of the land wars on Waikato Maori.

The largest number (39 per cent) chose sadness, followed by anger (11 per cent), frustration (10 per cent), shame (6 per cent), grief, resentment and guilt.

Harcourt said teachers, who will be required to teach NZ history from 2022, should be alert to those emotions and actually draw them out.

Teachers have been scaring kids with doom about climate change, and now they are loading them with guilt about national history.

Meanwhile educational standards slide. As Richard Prebble wrote in the Herald recently:

In the 2019 international maths and science test 81 per cent of New Zealand year 9 pupils got a simple math question wrong. 73 per cent of Singaporean students answered correctly.

There are already commentators saying “no need to panic”, we have just slipped a few places. In 1970 when New Zealand first participated in an international education comparison, for reading, we came top. If you slip 2 to 3 places every three years then in 50 years you are where we are, 40th position. We have gone from top to being bottom in reading and maths in the English-speaking world.

What is more despicable: Woke teachers who use their positions to brainwash, terrify our children, and load them with guilt, or an apathetic people who let this happen?

We should fight back.

Tell the kids that Woke trash are misleading them, complain to schools, complain to teachers, complain at PPTA meetings, complain to friends, work mates and relatives, complain to political parties, and reject those Woke media hacks who support those piling guilt on our children.

Above all, we should get enthusiastically behind political parties and electorate candidates or MPs who demonstrate guts on this issue .

Footnote: why do politicians itch to take on Ardern over her control of Covid when there are issues like this, and her impending attack on free speech?
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December 21, 2020 9:02am
- BAM
  
  The problem we’ve got is that the media won’t report any sort of opposition or criticism.
  
  National has to hire the best social media people in the business and use them to get their message out. It’s really the only way forward.
  
  Traditional media is no longer an option in NZ when they’re all shilling for the government and UN/world economic forum.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:16am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Why would you not want children to learn about the invasion of the Waikato and the deaths and impoverishment that went with it? Do you not consider it an important part of our history?
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:17am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    News flash; people 150 years ago, before rule of law was firmly pervasive in a young country did shitty things to other people not of their ‘tribe’. Repeat x 100 billion for human history.
    
    The only reason this is considered noteworthy today, is as a justification for the insanity of racist neo-original sin of identity politics (and ignore all examples of Maori being appalling to each other in same era). It’s not the info that’s a problem, its the agenda
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:28pm
  - poacher
    
    I believe it is important, however there is no mention in the planned teaching about the musket wars, which continued over decades and had a far higher death toll than the land wars. I suggest you read The Musket Wars by R H Crosby if you would like to be a bit more educated.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:36pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I have read it. the Musket Wars were very important too, as one of the earliest, and deadliest, manifestations of contact with Europeans.
      
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      December 21, 2020 6:03pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Yeah, the kids should be told about Maori conquest being a feature of property rights and how useless residuals or rangatiratanga could be eaten to exhibit mana over them.
    
    By stirring the Maori history pot we are only encouraging tribes to recall unrequited utu and its exercise.
    Most useless gobblement ever.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:41pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I look at all that swamp country around the likes of Ohaupo, Monovale, Motumaoho and Springdale and applaud the hard workers who drained it and made it top quality grassland. Far quits will describe those pioneers as land grabbing R Soles.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:47pm
  - Yabster
    
    your a complete cock Mike- you know he is saying if the history is balanced all good but no your stir your shit yet a gain.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:54pm
  - giltee
    
    Mike. Are they going to teach that Taranaki Maori went to the Chathams and wiped out the peaceful Moriori.
    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=033e2af2dbac4cb4b72cf08f1209ebcb
    
    I don’t think so. History will be sanitised and won’t give the truth but will instead be to appease radical Iwi. You’re naive if you think if teaching NZ history won’t be more about instilling white guilt than teaching there were faults on both sides.
    
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    December 21, 2020 2:33pm
    - Batman
      
      A little bit like comparing the Holocaust with the My Lai massacre.
      
      But broadly you have a point, even if not founded on evidence.
      
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      December 21, 2020 2:42pm
      - Jack5
        
        The slaughter of Chatham Islands Moriori by Taranaki Maori is among the genocides listed on Wikipedia, just above the genocide of the indigenous people of Tasmania:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll
        
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        December 21, 2020 4:11pm
    - SB2
      
      giltee, the core facts of the invasion of the Chathams,
      
      “95% of the Moriori population was eradicated by the invasion from Taranaki, a group of people from the Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama”
      
      It was not a general invasion by Taranki iwi!
      
      Fact
      
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      December 21, 2020 5:14pm
      - Jack5
        
        And, Stephie (S2), you would say then, that the atrocities at Auschwitz were committed only by a group of people from the Nazi SS.
        
        The Raj left the basis of a good modern education system in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Why is Stephiestan’s education so ineffective?
        
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        December 21, 2020 7:44pm
    - david
      
      It paid off though. The 2 Iwi involved got generous TOW settlements while the descendants of the last Moriori got SFA in comparison. No apologies, settlements or land grants from the “victorious” colonisers in that case.
      
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      December 21, 2020 5:16pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        ‘The 2 Iwi involved got generous TOW settlements’
        
        Ngati Mutunga o Wharekauri, the descendants of the invaders, are still waiting on their settlement; it’s s’posed to come through relatively soon. Ngati Mutunga in Taranaki is not a proxy for Ngati Mutunga o Wharekauri on the Chathams.
        
        ‘the descendants of the last Moriori got SFA in comparison’
        
        I doubt whether you’ve read the Treaty settlement, but one of the things Moriori got was money to pay for an education programme, so that ignorant people didn’t perpetuate the notion that the ‘last Moriori’ died long ago. If you want to make a small contribution to the Moriori cultural renaissance, you could stop perpetuating this myth.
        
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        December 21, 2020 10:23pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Some interesting responses. So most would not like NZ history to emphasise colonisation, dispossession and destruction of a society at all, or if it is to be mentioned, given balance by teaching the very worst things we can emphasise about a stone age culture in the light of today’s values.
    
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    December 21, 2020 6:07pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Really happy for the whole history to be taught Mike as long as the negatives are balanced by the vast amount of pros arising from colonialisation of NZ by the British…. the pros are huge and not discussed much just bs like post colonial stress disorder etc
      
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      December 21, 2020 8:01pm
      - Mike
        
        History is not about balancing positives and negatives.
        
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        December 21, 2020 8:43pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        ‘History is not about balancing positives and negatives’
        
        History as I understand is about finding out what happened, and trying to work out why it happened. Both things require an incredible amount of work. You don’t really want to stop every five minutes and ask whether X was good or bad, or whether event Y had positive or negative effects. Answers to questions like these are going to be partly subjective, flowing from the worldview of the person answering them, and they are going to change over time.
        
        As a young guy I did an undergrad course in Chinese history with one of the world’s top experts on the subject, Richard Phillips. It was a whirlwind tour, from T’ang to opium wars to Mao. Phillips didn’t stop at the end of each lecture and draw up a moral balance sheet. It was pretty obvious to me that, say, the Opium Wars and the Great Leap Forward were tragedies, and that Mao and the British drug dealers were in different ways bastards, but that wasn’t a point Richard Phillips had to or wanted to argue – he was a historian, not a preacher or politician.
        
        I have no doubt that most liberals as well as most conservatives, in NZ and other societies, feel much more comfortable turning history into a political argument, and arguing for their team against the other team. That’s why they’re not historians, and it’s also why historians need to stay away from partisan politics and other shallow ways of thinking rooted in the present. We’ve got too much work to do.
        
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        December 21, 2020 10:36pm
- JackRabbit
  
  So same students were clearly not asked how they felt about white man pulling Maori kicking and screaming out of cannibalism and practice of beheading.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:23am
  - Ruahine
    
    And the tattooing of heads to be sold to those evil traders after they have had the poor unfortunate killed.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:18pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Or eating the very last Moa.
    
    19 4
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    December 21, 2020 1:18pm
  - Flossie
    
    Oh but don’t you know – this land was Utopia…all sweetness and light…until the dastardly colonialists arrived. Now it’s their fault mobsters beat their women and kids don’t finish school, and obesity is rife and all kinds of other awful stuff amongst the poor oppressed.
    
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    December 21, 2020 1:34pm
    - MCos
      
      I don’t think too many people are glossing over the harsh life of Maori before colonization.
      However it’s worth noting that although the British claim to have come fro a more advanced society the life expectancy back in England wasn’t terribly flash compared to the Maori.
      Furthermore.
      Nothing occurred here to compare with the the wholesale slaughter that occurred in Europe.
      Having said that.
      Maori, for all they were ripped off through a system of land ownership imposed on them, at least have a Treaty, which few other indigenous people have to fall back on.
      
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      December 21, 2020 5:48pm
Yvette

Questions raised after police officers stop youths to take their photos [1],
report several media websites, but most related questions seem unanswered.

Of the two examples cited, one was a 15 year old in Masterton two years ago, and the other a 14 year old “last year”.
The second was a relative of Massey University politics lecturer John-James Carberry, who had heard police in Wairarapa were taking photographs of young people, and reached out online to find out more, and says his Facebook post was flooded with responses from others whose tamariki had received similar treatment.
However he, through the media, gives no indication how many supposed incidents there were, nor mentions if any were “non-Maori” (by whatever identification).

In a statement, police said the law allowed them to take photos of young people in some limited circumstances.
Wairarapa Area Commander Inspector Scott Miller said in August a review found three images were not taken under the right legislation and they were destroyed.
He said all other youth photographs were correctly captured under Section 214 of the 1989 Oranga Tamariki Act.
He did not say why the review was undertaken, or give any details about the youths captured in the photographs.
Nor did he explain why the photographs were taken in the first place, or they give any total of photographs, the number of youths involved or confirm it was only Maori photographed.

However this un-informative story, originally on RNZ, is republished with permission, by stuff. And one wonders why.
After their massive apology for publishing past material demeaning Maori, why have they repeated this item which not only reinforces the image that Maori are the attention of police surveillance, that the Police are in the wrong – although apparently acting within the law (all but three youth photographs were correctly captured under Section 214 of the 1989 Oranga Tamariki Act) – and stuff have failed to correct what was wrong with RNZ’s article – that it mentions no totals for you to understand the scope of the problem, if there is one.

[1] the stuff link is here, but why bother? https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300189251/questions-raised-after-police-officers-stop-youths-to-take-their-photos
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December 21, 2020 9:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  S.214 cited does not allow photography as the Police chooses.
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:47pm
Frank the tank

The amount of people we know buying batches/rental properties is staggering. This is beyond the pre-GFC boom herd mentality.

There are some truly worrying scenarios at play here:

1). The risk of a Japanese style economic stagflation is now extremely high. Simply put it defies logic that real incomes are falling yet landed asset prices are rising.
2). Commercial property investment is now based on expected value appreciation and NOT commercial yield returns. Again “crusin for a briusin” into the long term
3). There remains ‘no stock’ further pushing up values. Supply is at least 12 months behind demand.
4). Asset accumulation appears across the board (i.e. no premium for location). This will have significant downstream issues for secondary and tertiary locations/areas.
5). Most people realistically can’t afford these additional properties and (while not likely into the medium term) there is no ability to meet interest rate rises should these to occur.
6). Rents remain ridiculous relative to the quality of the property. This is no longer just an Auckland issue. This is countrywide now.

I have the feeling we are walking into a subprime type landed asset meltdown scenario within the next 3-5 years.

This time around there will be very little monetary tools available to Beetroot and Grunter should this nightmare scenario occur.
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December 21, 2020 9:19am
- Inandout
  
  Frank, ‘Caveat emptor’ is still my abiding rule of purchase of any item or property. If others are fools then so be it.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:25am
- muppeth8r
  
  The can keeps getting kicked down the road and is almost at the point of being left to get flattened.
  
  Spent the day with an old mate yesterday and hes just purchased his 8th property and thinks its halarious the way cindy and co have helped him along so much but is cautious about a crash or interest rate rise, 1% rise is about 1500per week extra to service debt… id be quietly shitting myself if i were him.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:37am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The govt would never allow significant numbers of NZers to end up going to the wall in mortgagee sales (driving house prices down and making all those center voters feel poor), so the highly leveraged investors are sadly as safe as, well, houses
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:31pm
    - muppeth8r
      
      Yea youre right they certainly wouldnt just allow that to happen… cindy will legislate and demand it happens
      
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      December 21, 2020 3:02pm
- IC5000
  
  Don’t worry Frank the market will take care of it all. No need for any gummit regulation.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:54am
  - alloytoo
    
    You do release that a crash is a legitimate market response don’t you?
    
    6 1
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    December 21, 2020 12:32pm
- PaulL
  
  We never got a proper crash, we got a sort-of COVID crash. But with Trump out, there’ll be a number of good news stories over the next year that will make markets bump up:
  – Trump out
  – covid recovery package
  – some sort of trade deal / easing of tensions with China
  – some sort of carbon deal / NATO deal / make traditional allies happy
  – COVID vaccine
  – COVID reduction in impact
  
  These are all mostly illusory, but I think it’ll result in ongoing market run up. The eventual crash when it comes will be bigger. In the meantime, there’ll be money to be made.
  
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  December 21, 2020 12:12pm
- Paulus
  
  When you throw $150 billion printed money plus the $4 billion cancellation of the ANZ Bank managed savings into the mix, and then wonder where the hell it has all gone, when an older savings investor cannot get 1% return in Bank Deposits, you wonder where it has gone
  Idiots like this Government
  Who is going to pay back this money purloined and when will it start ?
  – after the demise of this corrupt Government, aided by the $50 million plus donation of our money to the media.
  
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  December 21, 2020 1:23pm
- Paulie_
  
  Why worry about the batches as they will soon be under water, according to the greenies
  
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  December 21, 2020 3:22pm
Maggie Pie

The only good thing about STUFF, is that you can read the same shit on there that the Herald expects you to pay for.
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December 21, 2020 9:44am
- David George
  
  The “same shit” with a double helping of woke and all for free.
  What’s not to like.
  
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  December 21, 2020 9:56am
- Jack5
  
  Maggie from Remuera: it’s with surprise we read you aren’t responding to Stuff’s plea:
  
  “Make a contribution from as little as $1 and help safeguard trustworthy, independent journalism.”
  
  Independent of the Woke?
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:26am
Jack5

Are hotels unsuitable for quarantining arrivals over the border?

An Australian report questions whether their ventilation systems could spread Covid.

Hospital ventilation is under suspicion for spreading Covid in the second wave of the disease in Australia.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/ventilation-blamed-for-covid-spread-as-design-problems-are-detected-20201219-p56ox4.html
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December 21, 2020 9:51am
- JackRabbit
  
  [1] Any building with shared ventilation systems are essentially Incubation Centres, but them Dumb and Dumber haven’t figured that out yet. Which means that those in charge in Govt, don’t have a clue.
  
  [2] Even if rooms have self contained Air Con units, are said air con unit stripped and cleaned between occupant changes?
  
  [3] Even if rooms have self contained Air Con units, there is shared air in stairwells, lifts, hallways etc.
  
  However by regulation there has to be X number of air changes per hour, so the likelihood of NO circulated air system is low, unless the units open out onto a patio or deck, which unless the deck is 5 sided, distancing is immediately breached by way of air flow and lack of distancing between decks / patios.
  
  All of which is a mute point, because the NZ Covid-19 version is relatively benign.
  
  I wouldn’t hold out hope on any vaccine. Covid-19 is a parasite. You can’t vaccinate against parasites. The mRNA vaccine process has previously been used “successfully” (no objective tests, and mostly unsuccessful with re-infections) against Ebola. Ebola again is a parasite issue. You cannot vaccinate against parasites, only treat for them.
  
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  December 21, 2020 11:38am
  - Flossie
    
    How do hospitals manage this vexed air reticulation problem?
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:12pm
    - rockape
      
      Isolation rooms ,about two per DHB with negative air pressure and independent aircon.
      
      5 1
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      December 21, 2020 2:03pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        “two per DHB”. Great if you are one of the two. 🙁
        
        6 1
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        December 21, 2020 2:23pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      In general wards, they don’t. Which is why you have twice the likelihood of dying from an infection you picked up while in hospital as would of dying in a motor vehicle accident.
      
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      December 21, 2020 2:21pm
lastmanstanding

Alas I fear the Covid vaccines are going to prove ineffective against the new strains that are emerging. Seems Covid has a nasty way of reinventing itself for the scientists are going to have keep chasing its with new vaccines.
With the outbreak in Sydney I dont see any travel to Oz in the near future and we could have an outbreak here.
You got to wonder whats going on inside China given they appear to be back in full production. Are they just letting their citizens die and carrying on or have they found a super vaccine ( given they probably manufactured Covid in the first place).
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December 21, 2020 10:00am
- Frank the tank
  
  “Seems Covid has a nasty way of reinventing itself”
  
  What? Like the flu?
  
  Well I never…….
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:03am
- Bill Felt
  
  “Seems Covid has a nasty way of reinventing itself for the scientists are going to have keep chasing its with new vaccines”
  
  oh do you mean just like any other virus!
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:36am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  There is no credible evidence China manufactured the virus,
  
  https://www.newscientist.com/term/coronavirus-come-lab/
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:38am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Chirp, Chirp, Chirp
    There is credible evidence China kept International routes flying for weeks after they domestic flights.
    I guess welding up locals doors in Wuhan was just to stop them leaving the house.
    Enjoy your reset SB2.
    It is the China flu, if by some miracle they didn’t have a hand in altering it, they did nothing to spread it worldwide.
    
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    December 21, 2020 11:22am
    - SB2
      
      Boo hoo!
      
      2 30
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      December 21, 2020 11:49am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        You mean WuHU as in Flu, China Flu.
        Have a great day.
        
        23 3
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        December 21, 2020 12:13pm
      - RJ
        
        Just shows the idiot posting doesn’t care that China didn’t lock down and because of that has caused this virus to spread around the world, killing people, leaving people with life long Illnesses and destroying peoples jobs, etc. it really does show he only cares about the virus when he can try and use it as a means of political attack.
        
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        December 21, 2020 3:08pm
- oldfella
  
  lastmanstanding: it would be interesting to get Pharmachick’s take on how much use the current vaccines will be if this virus keeps mutating.
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:39am
  - oldfella
    
    I see UK boffins are already on to it…
    ++
    Scientists at top secret government base Porton Down race to find if new mutant strain is vulnerable to vaccine as variant is now detected throughout Wales and in parts of Scotland
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9072855/Scientists-secret-government-base-race-new-mutant-strain-vulnerable-vaccine.html
    
    FWIW Stuffed’s cartoon today has a bunch of Buzzy Bees flying in vaccines to the cheers of the Kiwi birds manning Ayoteearower’s castle battlements.
    Nice idea, but if the new vaccines don’t help as the virus keeps mutating… Hmm!
    
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    December 21, 2020 10:53am
  - Pharmachick
    
    @oldfella yeah sure, I’ll bite since you asked a direct Q and Maggy W was correct, I can tell you about it pretty fast…
    
    There’s 2 new mutations to the spike protein in the UK variant:
    
    N501Y alters the receptor-binding domain – that’s what makes this new viral mutant more transmissible (note not more lethal or sicker people, just passed round more easily).
    
    There’s also a H69/V70 deletion. That one is worrisome – mutating in that direction makes the vaccines less useful. A similar deletion has arisen separately and independently in South Africa and in the mink farms. But we can tweak the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines easily enough because they’re mRNA based. If nSARs-CoV-2 keeps mutating in this direction vaccines will need tweaking like ‘flu vaccine.
    
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    December 21, 2020 3:24pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  William of Ockham would say that – given the ChiComs shut down domestic travel after the outbreak while encouraging global / international travel outside of WuPox Central; and given that unlike in the UK, US, EU, LATAM, Middle East etc countries, no prominent Party-heading ChiCommies have sickened and died of the WuPox; and given that the ChiCommies sequenced the genome within a week or two of admitting there even was an outbreak – they both made it and had a vaccine for it.
  
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  December 21, 2020 10:49am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
    
    The Wuhan virus lab a few km from the blamed wet market and 1500km from the home range of the bats, that we know was actively experimenting with ‘gain of function research’ on corona viruses (there are publications from this research from previous years) most probably had an accidental release.
    
    Western media + UN, + academia + many many western politicians are all deeply in pockets of PRC so are loathe to print, publish or otherwise promulgate such clearly established facts.
    
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    December 21, 2020 12:43pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      The inserted 12 base pair furin cleavage site in the bat virus’s RNA is highly suspicious.
      
      Transcription errors (mutations) are common in RNA replication, but a random mutation inserting just a specific chunk of new base pairs with a well known (in literature on other dangerous viruses) gain-of-function purpose into an existing RNA chain in such a geographically remote location (1500km from bat population) is on probabilities alone completely unbelievable.
      
      This and other tells in the sequenced virus RNA compared to the supposed originating virus (like lack of other random changes) are strongly indicative of human design/intervention.
      
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      December 21, 2020 1:49pm
- kowtow
  
  The great /smart/scientifics etc put all their eggs in the vaccine basket .
  
  NZ’s only answer was to shut the borders pending a vaccine . Now that may prove ineffective.
  
  That’s why from the outset the genuinely smart folk said “don’t panic , try to keep as normal as possible ( Sweden) , protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us go on as usual ”
  
  My money is still on the “Don’t panic , carry on ” model .
  
  Look up the Mayor of Tubingens’ response and how well that worked , without the panic.
  
  ‘COVID: A focus on protecting the elderly
  As Germany braces for a hard lockdown, the southern city of Tübingen is focusing on protecting high-risk groups and on carrying out as many tests as possible.’
  
  https://www.dw.com/en/covid-a-focus-on-protecting-the-elderly/a-55947244
  
  12 2
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  December 21, 2020 10:52am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I agree. But the “don’t panic, protect the most at risk, and carry on” strategy doesn’t accelerate the state’s absolute control over our lives, ergo it’s not a good strategy for aspiring totalitarians.
    
    10 2
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    December 21, 2020 11:41am
    - SB2
      
      “.. aspiring totalitarians” ??
      
      0 29
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      December 21, 2020 11:52am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Aspergillosis totalitarians.
        
        9 1
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        December 21, 2020 12:52pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    “The great /smart/scientifics etc put all their eggs in the vaccine basket”
    
    Incorrect.
    
    Canada’s COVID drug advisory task force is actively reviewing, with daily summaries of trials and research M-F, and bi-weekly meetings to discuss. That said, not sure Pharmac has one, and even if they do, not sure they can afford anything other than dexamethasone, based on their utterly woeful performance with oncology drugs in the last few years.
    
    5 1
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    December 21, 2020 4:02pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Welcome back.
      
      6 1
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      December 21, 2020 7:00pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Lets just get a little context which the media seem to avoid talking about. It doesn’t sell.
  In NSW, there are less than 100 positives, they have all been contact traced.
  There has been 1 death in Australia since the 30 October, an elderly person which I bet had other medical factors involved..
  Last Covid death in NSW was 92 days ago
  In Hospital are NSW 3, QLD 11, and NT 12.
  The original plan was to control numbers going into hospitals.
  90% of deaths occurred in Victoria, and they had 90% of cases that couldn’t be contact traced.
  Over 40 flights have been cancelled out of Sydney today, the hysteria is just mind blowing.
  I said to a good friend yesterday, we have lived through the best years in the last 100 years, but unfortunately the tail end of our life will be turned to shite by manic control freaks.
  India is handing out packs of Ivermectin, Zinc, and Doxycycline that cost a few bucks.
  A brave leader in India, Bill Gates will be pissed, no money in these packs.
  The rest of the world is trying to eliminate a virus.
  Enjoy the great reset, it is here and looks like here to stay.
  Scomo is just sitting back, powerless to stop the rampart control and hysteria throughout the country.
  
  31 3
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  December 21, 2020 10:57am
  - Cinematic
    
    Yes the goal has shifted from control numbers entering our hospitals to just plain control. New variants are of course in endless supply as all viruses mutate. There is no end in sight.
    
    13 1
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    December 21, 2020 11:03am
  - Jack5
    
    For those who, because of hope for a trans-Tasman travel “bubble”, want to follow Covid 19 incidence in Australia (now 66 cases in Sydney’s northern beach districts):
    
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0
    
    5 1
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    December 21, 2020 11:34am
  - IC5000
    
    > the hysteria is just mind blowing.
    
    Looking out my window in Sydney now. Life continues as usual.
    
    3 8
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    December 21, 2020 11:57am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Don’t for get to put yours socks in wash.
      
      7 6
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      December 21, 2020 12:36pm
- Cinematic
  
  Or perhaps China decided to cease breathlessly reporting cases and get on with living and dying. Like the old days.
  
  13 2
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  December 21, 2020 10:58am
- Harriet
  
  “….they appear to be back in full production….”
  
  Sort of. They stopped coal from Australia and now they are having power outs, the CCP have ordered some factories to operate in the daytime and others at nighttime. They now buy some coal from Canada but the price has now gone up as Aussie coal is no longer in the Chinese market.
  
  And going by the news China is now starting talk things down a little, as Biden has ‘won’.
  
  12 4
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  December 21, 2020 11:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  they probably manufactured Covid in the first place
  
  Na,
  
  This is probably not that surprising, that a strain like this would emerge because there is this evolutionary pressure on the virus, it’s always got lots of variants floating around and if one is more infectious than others, it will create more viruses in the next generation and so on, so that strain becomes more dominant.”
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433294/epidemiologist-michael-baker-we-will-be-bringing-this-virus-into-new-zealand
  
  That’s just what nature does.
  Variation is the life-blood of survival.
  
  16 0
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  December 21, 2020 11:31am
- MFD
  
  “given they probably manufactured Covid in the first place”
  
  They either did or they didn’t. There is no probability involved except in your mind.
  
  4 5
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  December 21, 2020 11:50am
- MCos
  
  “With the outbreak in Sydney I dont see any travel to Oz in the near future and we could have an outbreak here.”
  You can go to Oz anytime you want without an isolation period.
  Upon returning is a different story.
  
  Of course we could have an outbreak here from people entering the country, unless we shut down all contact with the outside world completely & that ain’t going to happen.
  
  “Alas I fear . . . .”
  
  Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year.
  Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!
  
  8 3
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  December 21, 2020 12:17pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Yeah, I would love to go see my son and grandchildren in Sydney.
    
    Simple enough to get there – on the plane on the train and there I am …
    
    Coming back, I need to book a quarantine slot. I understand that if I book it now, early March will work. Then I would do the 2 weeks, pay the 4 grand and I’m home again. Round trip a mere 3 months ….
    
    10 2
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    December 21, 2020 12:27pm
    - Flossie
      
      Why not book your trip to Australia for late February then Ian?
      
      3 0
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      December 21, 2020 12:51pm
- Paulus
  
  Sorry for the report today of an Air NZ Cabin crew member being delighted at getting her job back.
  Sorry love – not yet, now, or in the foreseeable future – more Government controlled flim flame.
  Can you come back in a year or two !
  
  8 1
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  December 21, 2020 1:27pm
SGA

Alas I fear the Covid vaccines are going to prove ineffective against the new strains that are emerging.

Maybe, maybe not. According to the interview I listened to earlier today, vaccine designers are that there are likely to be some mutation, and try to factor that into the design process. Too early to say.
8 1
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December 21, 2020 10:20am
- cmm
  
  I’m not so sure this is something the designers have much control over.
  
  Different viruses behave differently.
  
  For example small pox, cow pox, monkey pox etc all respond to once vaccine, but it is a different matter for flu.
  
  An existing vaccine will no longer cover new variants – hence the updates to the flu vaccine recipe every year.
  
  4 1
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  December 21, 2020 1:19pm
  - SGA
    
    That’s what I heard an “expert” saying on the radio – that the vaccine designers had tried to make it a general as possible (there are, of course, a range of mutations already in circulation – that’s how they can track using genomic sequencing). Eventually, evolution does its thing and a vaccine may get beaten.
    
    I think that the more immediate threat is if the vaccine provides only relatively brief immunity.
    
    4 0
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    December 21, 2020 2:16pm
- Pharmachick
  
  The Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are RNA based. They can be easily altered (in a comparative sense with “old-school” vaccines) to take into account mutations. It would mean more like seasonal flu shots than one-and-done MMR etc
  
  8 0
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  December 21, 2020 4:08pm
Happy1

Time for KBer of the year. To be in the running for the teddy you need to think Trump won. Extra points for. NZ can’t eliminate covid, impossible to produce a vaccine, it’s only the flu, ( uk 70000 excess deaths nz death deficit 700) Aussie doing far better than us with a lighter response, we are leaving our grandkids a 200bn debt ( we are also leaving a reserve bank which owns the debt) Sweden got it right (8000 dead and going south rapidly) Can’t wait till September so this lot will be voted out. House prices will crash, unemployment skyrocket and bankruptcies everywhere. Suicides up ( they are slightly down) , They knew last week that covid had reappeared. Jus sayin. Their daughter entered a quarantine area to be with boyfriend. ( fabricator known) the nanny is pregnant. Crusher Collins will blow Cindy away, reason why we lost election is msm bias apart from Mike, Duncan , Leighton Peter Damian Grant etc. We should have opened up to Aussie yonks ago. The fact that some test negative at day 3 and positive on day 12 is suspicious. Covid is in the community but they won’t find it because they aren’t testing. ( sewage monitoring is the weapon of choice)
12 24
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December 21, 2020 10:29am
- Stu2
  
  You’ve missed Trump will win in a landslide
  
  7 5
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  December 21, 2020 12:31pm
  - Happy1
    
    Yeah thanks, and China created the virus, Ardern is a commie ( now a Blairite) Bill and Melinda created it as a money making venture, feel free to add.
    
    7 2
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    December 21, 2020 1:44pm
    - Okahu
      
      Top work happy! Perhaps since it’s still ongoing, ‘Brexit! Taking back control’ could join your list of Kiwiblog’s commonly spouted absurdities. And perhaps ‘Q knows!’ Truth be told, few are as brilliantly stupid as the one word catch all for I haven’t got a clue but I need to affirm my membership in clan dunce… BENGHAZZI!
      
      4 5
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      December 21, 2020 4:05pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Thanks Happy1 – you just made my day. The level of weirdness has really been getting me down last few weeks.
      
      9 1
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      December 21, 2020 4:09pm
oldfella

Have the Irish been talking to Angry Andy?
++
The Irish government has proposed making it a crime to share ‘hate’ comments on social media platforms even if someone else wrote of them.
Ireland’s Justice Minister, Helen McEntee, announced the new proposals this week, which could see retweeting or reposting ‘hate’ speech comments a criminal offence.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/12/20/irish-govt-wants-to-criminalise-sharing-retweeting-hate-posts/
15 2
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December 21, 2020 10:43am
- kowtow
  
  Well dat’s all de pub singin’ gone den ……..no more anti English shite!
  
  1 2
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  December 21, 2020 3:38pm
RJ

Question for those with medical knowledge. Are theseHealth Impact Events high or normal for vaccines

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20432769/05-covid-clark.pdf
4 2
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December 21, 2020 10:45am
- rockape
  
  Not a medic but married to one and know for a fact that after my annual flue vaccine I have to wait in the medical center for 20 minutes in case I have a reaction.
  Google says approx 1 to 3.3 cases per million doses have a reaction to any vaccine.
  
  11 0
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  December 21, 2020 11:52am
  - RJ
    
    Yeah I’ve seen a few people taken away in ambulance from the flu vaccine.
    
    3 3
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    December 21, 2020 12:16pm
    - rockape
      
      You must be everywhere as there were only about 2 million shots per year so between 2 and 6 badly affected per year.
      
      4 2
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      December 21, 2020 2:06pm
      - RJ
        
        I have no idea if they were affected badly or not, I just know that a few have been taken to the hospital from reactions to the flu vaccine from my gp
        
        4 3
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        December 21, 2020 2:25pm
Maggie Pie

Chris Rea spotted making U-turn on M1.
9 9
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December 21, 2020 11:20am
- Jade Warrior
  
  He must have thought he was on the road to hell.
  
  https://youtu.be/gUUdQfnshJ4
  
  4 4
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  December 21, 2020 11:30am
- plc
  
  Wasn’t really funny the first time
  
  9 6
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  December 21, 2020 11:42am
Maggy Wassilieff

Some views of the conjunction of Saturn & Venus from the UK…
http://jupitersaturn2020.org/
11 1
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December 21, 2020 11:35am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBjHCcVHMp8

Chinas Local Government Woes.

After the Coronavirus pandemic, China’s local governments, its companies and its youth- all are going bankrupt with speed that Xi Jinping has given up on controlling.
7 2
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December 21, 2020 11:53am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb14-Q4y02k

AOC slightly Miffed at Losing.

Beiing Biden used the Bernie Bros, and AOC etc to
Get votes and support. Now he’s ‘president elect’ he
doesn’t need them. So, under the bus they go.
9 3
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December 21, 2020 11:54am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

This will be the most funny tweet you see today.
Even the poster’s comment would apply to some of the humorless losers that post here. LOL!!

https://twitter.com/BearUKnow/status/1340731318456430596
10 8
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December 21, 2020 12:15pm
muppeth8r

Have a douche of a mate coming back to nz for a month, rekons they can get in on nz passport then leave on another passport and escape paying, a few of his family have done the same aparently and got away with it.

Anyone know if thats a legit loophole and if it will eventually catch up to them?
Kinda annoys me that we’re left to pickup the tab for fuckwits that dont contribute.
10 2
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December 21, 2020 12:33pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Bloody hell mupps – my partner reckons they gave that AJ Hackett outfit 12mill. Anything’s possible with this lot
  
  8 3
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  December 21, 2020 1:34pm
- MCos
  
  Don’t ask us.
  Put the question to Immigration and mention a few names.
  You’re either pissed off at someone taking us for a ride or you’re not.
  BTW
  How can someone leave on a foreign passport who doesn’t appear to have entered the country with a valid visa?
  
  11 1
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  December 21, 2020 2:00pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  It probably is a loophole because they’re too soft policing it.
  
  If you’re a returning NZ’er you should have to show you’re travelling on a one way ticket or have confirmed outward travel more than 90 days after arrival – and if you can’t, you get charged.
  
  2 0
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  December 21, 2020 2:14pm
  - muppeth8r
    
    Yep 1 way ticket in but the return flight gets booked while being cindys guest at the hotel, seems an easy and obvious loophole to exploit.
    
    Considering labours reluctance to even implement charges i wouldnt be suprised if the told folk how to get past the fees.
    
    5 0
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    December 21, 2020 3:47pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      True. But they’d be paying significantly more for two one way tickets than a single return, and taking a big risk on flight availability to get back. As MCos mentioned above, it should be a data matching exercise – they should be able to pick up people leaving on a passport that has no valid entry visa attached.
      
      And you’re right about the fees, Labour’s pathetic attempts at cost recovery are a joke. I’m surprised they’re not hiring staff to give people a hug at the airport as they arrive.
      
      1 1
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      December 21, 2020 5:00pm
krazykiwi

Mt Ruapehu crater lake just been raised to alert level 2. Lake temperature was 15deg back in October and it currently at 43deg, with gas passing through lake, and increased volcanic tremors.

Someone tell Santa to navigate carefully.
21 0
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December 21, 2020 12:45pm
- muppeth8r
  
  Cindys hoping for a careless tour group, shes got her selfie stick and sad face ready to go.
  
  How good would a massive eruption be, it would top of 2020 quite nicely…
  
  17 2
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  December 21, 2020 12:52pm
  - RJ
    
    An, she’s already way ahead of you and worked out how to kill one duck off. Trevor will soon be sent to Ruapehu to investigate the lake being used for sailing
    
    11 2
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    December 21, 2020 1:26pm
- cmm
  
  Clearly the taniwha is pissed off. I’m sure this is somehow my fault and I should be paying some koha to make it go away.
  
  19 2
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  December 21, 2020 1:22pm
- Inandout
  
  krazy, in sane times the lake woud have been ‘bled’ by allowing an outflow. Then moddies said ‘you can’t do that’ and the rest is history.
  
  5 2
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  December 21, 2020 3:26pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    What was the purpose of bleeding water? Just to reduce the spike volume ejected in an eruption?
    
    3 0
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    December 21, 2020 5:13pm
Maggie Pie

My partner suggested I should share our heavenly ‘Egg Nog’ recipe with the group…..

2L French Vanilla ice cream (softened)
Bottle of Whiskey (or) Rum
12 Eggs (6s)
1tsp Nutmeg

Put all ingredients into Food Processor and blend until well combined. Pour into jug and keep chilled until ready to consume. Best made and served on same day. Sprinkle a little more Nutmeg on the top when serving.

(Recipe can be halved if there’s just the two of you.)
12 5
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December 21, 2020 1:10pm
- RJ
  
  Why not just safe time and just have the rum or whiskey?
  
  8 2
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  December 21, 2020 1:25pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Because i really love Nutmeg, silly!
    
    10 4
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    December 21, 2020 1:46pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  You could really do a job on ones self if you tackled said recipe alone.
  I could make probably take the bottle of grog, icecream, and nutmeg, but 12 eggs would be a real stretch.
  
  6 1
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  December 21, 2020 2:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now would that be a 700ml bottle of Jacks – or a 1.75 Litre as they sell in Alaska? (US$ 26)
  
  9 5
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  December 21, 2020 3:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oh lookie, a downticker. Need a can of Fanta? I will open it for you sweetie
    
    11 8
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    December 21, 2020 4:05pm
    - RJ
      
      Damn! if I knew there was a free can of Fanta involved I would of downticked you.
      
      4 3
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      December 21, 2020 8:46pm
Surely Knott

The NHS has lost a court case in the UK re giving puberty blockers to kids and now minors will need to seek court approval. At the same time the NHS has updated their website. The UK website used to say, “The effects of treatment with GnRH analogues are considered to be FULLY REVERSIBLE”. The NZ Ministry of health website also says there is no risk, “Blockers are a safe and fully reversible medicine….”. They name no side effects or harm either psychologically or physically. And there is no mention of the very serious consequences of the next part of the treatment.
The UK website after the court case has now been updated and says, “These hormone blockers (gonadotrophin-releasing hormone analogues) pause the physical changes of puberty, such as breast development or facial hair.
Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria.
Although the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) advises this is a physically reversible treatment if stopped, it is not known what the psychological effects may be.
It’s also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children’s bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations.”
If science is facts, and nz is following the science, then how can those two statements be so different. Is the drug safe and reliable. And if there are side effects why aren’t they named by MOH. The website doesn’t give any other options like therapy because it is now considered a natural variation. The NZ advise also doesn’t explore any of the reasons that could contribute to gender dysphoria like psychological issues or trauma (eg sexual abuse).
12 2
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December 21, 2020 1:20pm
RJ

Speechless

A young man who was granted home detention after a killing a security guard with a single punch has been re-sentenced after he went on a crime spree a month later.

Sydney Jayden Kokiri was originally sentenced in March 2019 for the manslaughter of Serbian national Goran Milosavljevic.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300189562/auckland-man-who-killed-security-guard-gets-home-detention-for-crime-spree
19 4
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December 21, 2020 1:46pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  I see it says ……Sydney was locked in the back of their car once while his father drove over his mother.
  Like my partner just said, “Thank f–k they don’t live in Remuera”
  
  10 6
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  December 21, 2020 2:11pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Yes, but did Sydney ever ‘express remorse’…?
  
  7 1
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  December 21, 2020 2:19pm
- muppeth8r
  
  This is the woke product of systemic racism and hugs for criminals.
  
  7 2
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  December 21, 2020 3:51pm
burt

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300189611/scientists-race-to-ensure-vaccine-will-work-against-new-covid-strain

If you’ve ever wondered why we don’t have a vaccine to cure the common cold – there are clues in this link.

Still, great time to be investing in big pharma, much cash to be made on the herd insanity.
11 2
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December 21, 2020 2:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I started to read some of that link, then it went off beat. Some sort of shit like Jaspindaspeak
  
  4 4
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  December 21, 2020 4:08pm
muppeth8r

How to break the poverty cycle…
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/lack-of-south-auckland-abortion-services-unacceptable/ar-BB1c5rXB

While i dont agree with abortion i do welcome a move to increase services in poorer communities and high welfare areas, america done this years ago and nothing says BLM more then clinics as common as a bottlestore and kfc.
3 4
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December 21, 2020 4:04pm
- mandk
  
  There’s no reason to suppose that greater provision or uptake of abortion service will solve poverty or any other social and economic problems in South Auckland, or anywhere else for that matter.
  
  Better education, support for self-improvement and an emphasis on self-reliance are the only things that will work.
  
  Look at how African Americans have been targeted by abortion services, and ask yourself why they are still at the bottom of the heap, economically and socially.
  
  3 2
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  December 21, 2020 4:38pm
RJ

An interesting interview

“It’s important to note everybody says this is potentially the biggest intrusion in our history. The reality is the blast radius for this, I kind of explain it with a funnel. It’s true that over 300,000 companies use SolarWinds, but you come down from that total number down to about 18,000 or so companies that actually had the backdoor or malicious code on a network,” he said. “And then you come down to the next part. It’s probably only about fifty organizations or companies, somewhere in that zone, that’s genuinely impacted by the threat actor.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/ceo-of-cybersecurity-company-lays-out-scope-of-cyberattack-on-u-s-suggests-culprit-not-yet-known?%3Futm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwtwitter
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December 21, 2020 4:10pm
Inandout

In the name of sanity, how could the majority have voted this man in?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_M6oScyWxI&feature=emb_logo
5 3
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December 21, 2020 4:47pm
RJ

I wonder who doesn’t need to go into isolation now

exclusion from managed isolation for a small number of additional people, where the health risk is deemed very low

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/12/covid-19-five-new-coronavirus-cases-in-new-zealand-s-managed-isolation-facilities.html
3 2
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December 21, 2020 4:55pm
Swifty

Pakeha have no culture….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/123468882/the-only-pkeh-on-te-wnanga-o-aotearoa-course-thinks-its-time-to-ask-who-we-are-and-what-we-stand-for

Can anyone decipher this and tell me exactly what this guy is suggesting – I can’t make it out.

And can anyone tell me what a ‘pakeha college’ is?
8 3
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December 21, 2020 5:09pm

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