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December 12, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 December 2020

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Tony Stuart

It’s 8.02am on Saturday 12th December 2020, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives is Trevor Mallard.
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December 12, 2020 8:05am
- Paulus
  
  Still Speaker – he hasn’t the guts to Resign and payback the money involved.
  Trevor – the next while we will not forget you until you Resign.
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:29am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Plus, Stephie, Masterbatman, Brian McDonald, Milky and other assorted Labour sycophants are strangely quiet.
    
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    December 12, 2020 8:31pm
- ldypen
  
  Yep ain’t that wrong!
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:35am
- 3-coil
  
  Yes Tony, incredible isn’t it!
  I attended the fabulous farewell garden-party for departing US Ambassador Scott Brown the other day, at his sprawling residence in Woburn. Amb Brown was on stage performing with his (excellent!) rock band and had a special welcome for Mallard when he arrived. In front of the 700 guests, over the multi-thousand watt PA system, the Ambassador made sure everyone knew Trev was arriving and welcomed him with several repeated loud announcements “you’re out of order Mr Speaker”! Trev nearly dropped the poor little sprog he was carrying, hard to believe but he actually looked embarrassed! It was a great little “welcome to the USA” moment for our Trev. ?
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:40am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Scott Brown has been a superb US Ambassador.
    
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    December 13, 2020 7:09am
- Yvette
  
  What was the precise rule or law that Mallard changed, when he knew that it would decide the payee of liability in a case that involved him, in as much as where was the requirement for Mallard to declare a vast conflict of interest?
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:42am
  - PaulL
    
    Not clear to me that was true. He was already covered as Jacinda decided Speaker was like a Minister. He changed rules to extend the same privilege to MPs.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:33am
    - sooty
      
      But to cover his own arse first and foremost!
      He had a conflict of interst and should have stood down!
      Massive corruption!
      It’s the cover up that gets you!
      
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      December 12, 2020 11:50am
- Tomtoddy
  
  It’s 8.02am on Saturday 12th March 2021 and Trevor Mallard is unemployed.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:08am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    It is 9.26 01 August 2017, Trevor Mallard is unemployable . . .
    
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    December 12, 2020 9:28am
  - UkiWop
    
    It’s 9.37am on Saturday 12th March 2021 and Trevor Mallard is unemployable
    
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    December 12, 2020 9:38am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      and I hope he is shunned, jeered at and declined service at every private institution with any respect for citizen’s rights accross the whole of NZ until he slinks off to a hermit-hole somewhere in the Ruahines.
      
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      December 12, 2020 10:53am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Please don’t despoil the beautiful Ruahines with a weasel (noxious pest) like that. Dump him over the back of Wainuiomata somewhere.
        
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        December 12, 2020 9:23pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Im hoping Mallard doesnt resign. He will have a target painted on his forehead for Nats and ACT to go after him for the rest of the term. He will powerless morally and ethically. He will huff and puff but have no moral authority. If I was Nats ACT I would play with him and taunt him as much as possible. He deserves it. If the Nats and ACT are smart they will drive him from office by wearing him down and giving him the same treatment he has meted out for years. Nothing should be off the table as regards a relentless campaign to attack him.
  Pop corn time!!!!
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:21am
  - sooty
    
    While trev’s still there it makes Jacin-DUH look right regal polishing a turd and rolling it in glitter!
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:53am
- niggly
  
  Trevor Mallard has been an MP since 1984. That was 36 years ago, and apart from losing his seat once has been paid by us, the taxpayer, for 33 years.
  
  Mallard does not need to work – as he must be a multi-millionaire “rich prick” by now.
  
  Mallard is also eligible to collect the pension as he reached retirement age (and no doubt it will a most very generous pension indeed).
  
  So there is no real reason why Labour and Ardern need to keep Mallard on (he would be fine, financially, if no longer a working MP etc).
  
  So with that in mind and looking at the situation (that Mallard, Labour and Ardern are in, now we know more about Mallard’s duplicity and deception), I’d like to see the Media continue to question Mallard and Ardern as to why he’s still there.
  
  There is no reason for Mallard to “exist” (as a parliamentarian) ……… unless it’s because Mallard is vital to “protect” Ardern in the debating chamber? Surely not? But if so, well that begs some important questions for the Media to continue to question (and put pressure on) Ardern so to why that perception exists …. especially if Mallard remains as Speaker.
  
  So Labour, is it really worth protecting Mallard? After all he’s not an endangered species so-to-speak, in fact, an unlike his latest victim, Mallard is and will be rather well off financially.
  
  After all, Labour, this is not all about Mallard is it? It’s also about Mallard’s victim. Victim’s are important, aren’t they, Labour and Ardern?
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:43am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Spot on Tony.
  A defintion of rape I am comfortable with
  “Unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person’s will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception ”
  I wonder if the speaker of the house will let us know his definition.
  I wonder if he will continue to make decisions as a speaker when he clearly doesn’t or cannot think them through logically before spitting venom at people. The speaker is supposedly unbiased, I am yet to see this.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:24am
fernglas

In Auckland, public transport patronage is down about 40% since last year. Have routes been reduced by 40%? Expenditure reduced by 40%? Road construction increased by 40%?
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December 12, 2020 8:12am
- sooty
  
  How many buses have they parked up because of the 40% loss of patronage?
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:46am
- Benedict Yu
  
  No they will just be losing money. In Christchurch I have never seen a bus even close to full. Of course a diesel bus carrying two people is worse than a giant car. Yay climate change emergency.
  
  An electric bus with two passengers is financially insane. As such bus cost $650 000 ?.
  
  The future is flexible transport. I went out for dinner last night and was having few wines. I used Ola ride share service. Nice car. New hybrid. Trip cost $7.
  
  I say many times government in New Zealand is not capable of lateral thinking and good implementation. That applies to both central and local government. It is this horrible hand brake on progress of the country.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:49am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  To be fair, it’s not all bad news in Auckland transport.
  
  While waiting in a queue of cars this week at the local main road intersection through the 2-3 complete traffic light cycles which have become common at off-peak times since cycle lanes were introduced a year or two ago and motorists’ lane and direction choices reduced, I saw not just the usual zero, not just one, but TWO cyclists.
  
  And there’s definitely an increase in leisure cycling in the weekend.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:30am
- Nickc2
  
  Working from home and Covid-19 may have something to do with it.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:28am
iMP

20-STATE Petition to US Supreme Court.
I’ve visited the Texas state legislature which is a copy of the Capitol building, very impressive, so today I’m flying the Texas State flag, the Lone Star state. This is because Texas, along with 20 other states, almost half the US, has filed petition in the US Supreme Court over the unconstitutionality of the recent post-in-ballot aspect of the US election.

In the US changes to the electoral system are the preserve of the State legislatures. In several states Democrats changed the system 90 days out from the election, something President Trump complained against well before the election. 20 states are challenging the Constitutionality of this act which is only legal if the State legislature makes the change. (It would be like Phill Goff deciding on how votes could be cast in Auckland Super City during a general election). In many cases State governors or other officials changed the system just before the election.

Having ongoing involvement with the New Zealand Supreme Court, I understand how these courts work. They are interested in legal case law, precedent, and principals of law. I suspect the US Supreme Court will uphold the standing of the State legislature to determine changes to electoral process. They may rule that some State votes be laid aside or some County results, and direct a reallocation of the electoral votes to determine the US presidency. It’s possible they may direct a complete new election but probably unlikely.

This is fascinating and worth watching if you’re interested in law, democracy, governance and the leadership of the worlds largest democracy. Thus I am honouring Texas today because of its bold stand to defend democratic processes and law. y flying the Lone Star state flag.
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December 12, 2020 8:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Having ongoing involvement with the New Zealand Supreme Court
  
  Ah, a legal genius!
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:18am
  - IC5000
    
    I have a law degree from the University of Otago. However I do not pretend to be an expert of the US Supreme Court.
    
    > They are interested in legal case law, precedent, and principals of law.
    
    Every court is interested in these things. Did you think this was a revelation to us?
    
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    December 12, 2020 6:45pm
- Andrew Worth
  
  There’s an even larger number of states opposing the Texas suit.
  Many red states also made electoral changes through executive actions aimed at voter suppression, so pot meet kettle.
  
  The SCOTUS will most likely decline to hear the Texas suit, it has the power to ignore such applications and has done so on other occasions where states have endeavoured to use the court to meddle in the internal processes of other states.
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:35am
  - alloytoo
    
    The question is whether states can ignore the constitution, the agreement which binds them together as the united states.
    
    I’m not sure the supreme court can afford to ignore the petition.
    
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    December 12, 2020 8:55am
    - artemisia
      
      Regardless of what happens in courts, a huge number of US citizens of all stripes are not confident the election was free and fair.
      
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      December 12, 2020 11:00am
  - Simon
    
    Expert evidence shows that Biden’s serge vote count from 1 am to 3 am after poll watchers sent home was statistically impossible.
    
    Unconstitutional voting practices and procedures produced an impossible result. (in a Federal election) Texas Electors, and others have been harmed as their voters have been disenfranchised by the unconstitutional actions of the named States / illegal vote tally.
    
    Lets see what happens. At the end I think the remedy will be too hard for SCOTUS.
    
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    December 12, 2020 9:09am
    - Andrew Worth
      
      “Statistically impossible ” you’ve bought a lie.
      
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      December 12, 2020 9:48am
      - JackRabbit
        
        You’ve bought a lie that “Statistically impossible” is a lie.
        
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        December 12, 2020 11:29am
    - SGA
      
      Expert evidence shows that Biden’s serge vote count from 1 am to 3 am after poll watchers sent home was statistically impossible.
      
      Two quick points –
      
      First, as each election is run differently each time, and this one had many more mail-in ballots due to Covid, such analyses will require a lot of assumptions – historical patterns are of very limited value. It is easy to manipulate such probabilities by the assumptions one makes.
      
      Second, and probably more important, you can make a raft of assumptions and calculate the probability that intelligent life has evolved on Earth. Such analyses will “prove” there is a mind boggingly small probability that it exists… but it does (although lately KB has challanged my belief in that basic premise). Calculating the probability of events after it has occurred often produces such results.
      
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      December 12, 2020 10:00am
      - simonway
        
        SGA, there’s not much point trying to argue against the “statistically impossible” claim, because the numbers involved are essentially just made up.
        
        I have seen people try to do serious statistical analysis and make stupid errors, but that isn’t really what happened here. The gist of it is that some guy picked out some numbers that it doesn’t make sense to pick out and multiplied them together when it doesn’t make sense to multiply them together. There’s no actual logic to the “calculations” here. As such, you can’t use logic against them.
        
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        December 12, 2020 2:44pm
  - Kevin Herlihy
    
    Texas also made electoral changes, the very same changes that they are suing other states over.
    SCOTUS have met to discuss which cases they will consider and an announcement is due anytime soon.
    
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    December 12, 2020 9:10am
  - Fletch
    
    The SCOTUS will most likely decline to hear the Texas suit
    
    I somehow don’t think so. There are so many states suing and so much interest that it really can’t be ignored. If it is ignored, what I would do if I was a State legislature would be to choose and send my own electors as well – the same as has been done in the past. When both sets of electors get there, let Congress determine which are the ones constitutionally able to cast the votes of their state.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:19am
    - C J Southern
      
      Well there ya go – wrong again.
      
      At least you’re consistent.
      
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      December 12, 2020 2:03pm
  - Jimbob
    
    It will be all over on Tuesday 15 Dec. NZ time. All the college votes are counted, Biden will win.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:21am
    - virtualmark
      
      It will be all over in a traditional sense.
      
      But it will never be over for Trump, and for the members of his death cult. Within 24 hours he will have come up with some other harebrained idea to effect an authoritarian takeover, and his tribe will lap it up. The idea that “the Supreme Court will deliver us our Presidency” will be forgotten, as though it never existed.
      
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      December 12, 2020 8:57pm
- IC5000
  
  Looks like the NY DAs are also asserting states rights to uphold the law.
  
  I too stand with you on this principle by applauding the Manhattan DA in deciding to impartially investigate any behaviour in deem criminal despite the suspect trying to use the defence of absolute immunity to deflect any investigation.
  
  https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/manhattan-das-office-reportedly-escalating-investigation-of-trump-significantly-recently-interviewed-deutsche-bank-employees/
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:55am
- Inandout
  
  Bill Barr has announced that Hunter Biden had been under investigation for months but because of the election ‘he couldn’t make them public’ he told the Wall Street Journal. Little wonder some US electors feel betrayed.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:17am
  - IC5000
    
    Is Hunter Biden running for public office?
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:27am
  - Lance
    
    No problem, Biden can just issue pardons left right and centre like Trump is doing, because Trumps family has done no wrong but are getting pardons anyway.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:27am
- Than
  
  This case will go utterly nowhere. It is so blatantly unconstitutional I’m genuinely amazed the Texas AG was willing to file it. He (and all the other Republicans supporting this absurb motion) are going to end up looking like imbeciles.
  
  This is not even just about the constitution, it goes deeper than that. It is about the basic Federal structure of the USA, which is that the States are Sovereign. One state cannot tell another state what to do.
  
  Texas has absolutely no right to tell Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania how they choose their electors. They are sovereign and independent states who control their own affairs. And they are (quite rightly) telling Texas to piss off and mind its own business. This is just an absolute no-brainer, and will go nowhere.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:28am
  - alloytoo
    
    States may well be sovereign, however they have this agreement themselves them called the US constitution.
    
    That agreement states that the manner of conducting elections is the decided by the state legislatures.
    
    SCOTUS has also previously ruled that the what ever rules are applied by the state legislature need to be applied consistently across the state.
    
    Texas’ argument is that the imposition of rules and regulations by anyone other than the state legislature is a breach of the constitution (since the constitution is an agreement between the Sovereign states.)
    
    Since the election is in respect of Federal officials the outcome effects the state of Texas and her citizens.
    
    SCOTUS was setup to precisely to adjudicate this type of inter-state dispute.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:22am
  - Doctor Sigmund Freud
    
    Trump won’t back down.
    
    Neither should he as he’s fighting the technocratic take-over of the United States of America.
    
    We have the same problem in NZ – the successful take-over of New Zealand by ‘Dr’ Ashley Bloomfield who leads the other technocrats.
    
    Any idiot with a pencil, back of envelope and calculator could figure out with minimal effort that this COVID is NOT an existential threat.
    
    FFS here in Milford, Auckland we are swarming with government inspectors of all sorts of authority. EVERYWHERE!
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:22am
  - IC5000
    
    > I’m genuinely amazed the Texas AG was willing to file it
    
    The Texas AG is the subject of a FBI probe for corruptly using his office for private gain. A Trump pardon would come in useful.
    
    That’s how it rolls in Trumpland. Corrupt public officials use each other and Trump supporters pretend like nothing is happening. They are just as corrupt as the criminal president they support
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:32am
  - SGA
    
    Tied up with that the issue that this matter can, should, and, in some cases, has been dealt with in the appropriate lower courts (within those states). As I understand it, the Supreme Court is more appropriate when there is no clear case which state’s court should deal with it (e.g., a border dispute between Texas and New Mexico).
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:40am
  - Fletch
    
    You really don’t understand. That is not what it says in the Constitution, which makes it clear that the choosing of electors is solely up to the state legislature. Yes, states are sovereign, but a certain body IN that state has authority.
    
    There is nowhere in the Constitution that says a citizen may vote for who is president. In reality, there are 50 small state elections where electors are chosen which are then sent to Congress. And the electing part is a fairly recent thing.
    
    In the past the legislature of each state chose its electors without an election. They just chose the people they wanted to represent their state. It’s only in more recent times that an election was held which determined which electors would go. And the legislature can take back that right.
    
    As the Supreme Court said in 1892 in the case of McPherson v. Blacker, “Whatever provisions may be made by statute, or by the state constitution, to choose electors by the people, there is no doubt of the right of the legislature to resume the power at any time…”.
    
    As far as other states like Texas suing – they are doing so because they are holding to the rules but other states aren’t. Which affects the whole election. It violates the Equal Protection Clause.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:27am
    - Steve Todd
      
      You really don’t understand.
      
      Yeah, yeah, so you keep telling us.
      
      One thing is certain: the 38 Texas electors will vote for Trump and Pence on Monday – guaranteed.
      
      So, tell us again, how has Texas been “seriously injured” by the Defendant States? Because that is what Texas must demonstrate.
      
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      December 12, 2020 1:46pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Spot on, Than.
    
    I wish I had said all that at some point over the last two days.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:27pm
- bruceavon
  
  I am expecting the Supreme Court will be discussing this right now. The court does not want to get involved in deciding elections.
  Every election will end up with countless suits before the Supreme Court.
  So I expect it to be rejected soon.
  But I don’t think a 1 sentence denial is in order. They need to issue a notice to indicate that they the Supreme Court won’t get involved in these matters without hard evidence and with every good reason. They have been involved in many cases related to voter suppression, ID etc. But these must occur before the election. Not some Hail Mary collection of junk after, to turn the whole election.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:39am
  - alloytoo
    
    This isn’t a matter for evidence, the facts are not in dispute.
    
    This is about upholding the Constitution.
    
    Allowing states, not merely state legislatures but mere officials, to breach the Constitution may be a far worse precedent than the constitutional remedies on offer.
    
    The court could set aside the election and return the appointment of electoral college voters to the state legislature or they could set aside the electoral college altogether and let congress decide.
    
    Both these options are constitutional (and therefore don’t set a precident)
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:33am
  - Fletch
    
    Yet the Supreme Court pretty much decided Bush v Gore. (Well, almost.. Gore saw the way it was heading and conceded).
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:33am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Pity the Justices who have the onerous duty of settling these conflicting interests.
  Fraud cannot be allowed as a substitute for legitimate action but but voiding a lot of votes is concerning too. However where voting machines have applied the adjustment referred to in their manual to give a fraction of a vote to one candidate and a ratio exceeding unity to another no one can say they each vote is equal. Dead people don’t provide valid votes either.
  
  The Justice’s will have to confront that they are in a political situation. The complaints may be politically motivated but the constitutional necessity to provide for equality among citizens has been clearly breached.
  If the Justices do not take the bold step of denying certification of the present outcomes there may be further strife.
  I do not expect the President to accept evident fraud as sufficient to deny him a further term. At least a State of Emergency is likely while a new voting system is sorted out.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:59am
  - SGA
    
    At least a State of Emergency is likely while a new voting system is sorted out.
    
    Now that is something the SCOTUS would be more likely to strike down!
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:43am
  - Fletch
    
    Right. All the Justices really need to do is say that those states cannot be certified, give authority back to the state legislatures to decide. SCOTUS does not have to validate or invalidate the election itself. Just make clear what the Constitution says and leave the decisions to the state legislatures.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:35am
  - Harriet
    
    “……I do not expect the President to accept evident fraud as sufficient to deny him a further term. At least a State of Emergency is likely while a new voting system is sorted out…..”
    
    Well given it takes just one single tit bit of bullshit information from an anonymous source to impeach a President – he’s now confronted with the same invalid shit again – but in the 100’s of thousands, and again in places where they seem to be ‘more than useful’. 😎
    
    Yes federal voting within states does need serious oversight as it is constitutional – how they vote for themselves is for the most part their own business.
    
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    December 12, 2020 12:09pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Kevin,
    
    I’m going to try to explain things to you one last time.
    
    1. For reasons right or wrong, many people in the US have decided to support Trump. Off the top of my head there are about 75,000,000 or so of them.
    
    2. Those people don’t want to believe any news that doesn’t frame the person that they’ve chosen to support in a good light. They get angry when they hear it. And yes, the same goes for the other side too. Most people in the world today are completely incapable of differentiating between reality and “reality as they’d like it to be”.
    
    3. That inturn creates one hell of a marketing opportunity for news organisations to leverage that anger.
    
    4. Thus those organisations “make a meal” out of every little thing that they can by “creatively misinterpreting” “evidence” (polite phrasing) aka “misleading people and making shit up” (not-so-polite phrasing).
    
    5. It tells people what they want to hear and thus keeps those people supporting the organisation saying it, but IT DOESN’T MAKE WHAT THEY’RE SAYING TRUE.
    
    There has been no finer demonstration of that than this US election.
    
    6. I can read your mind – you’re thinking “But MY sources ARE true – it’s all those other MSM sources that are lying” – (was I right?)
    
    7. So that begs the question: “Does the MSM lie to protect their own self-interest?” … You betcha they do. Frequently. But that doesn’t mean that everything they say is a lie just because it aligns with their chosen position. And it doesn’t mean that people who impartially investigate something and reach a conclusion that you don’t like are wrong either.
    
    8. My encouragement is for you to assume that neither “side” has any credibility. Instead, use some logic and reason;
    
    – There have been literally HUNDREDS of accusations of fraud made – as “evidenced” by all of the reports made.
    
    – I think it’s pretty safe to assume that if there was any evidence that stacked up then their lawyers would have presented it to a court. So you really need to ask yourself why that’s the case that nothing of consequence has been presented. There’s really only 2 answers – (a) that hundreds of frauds occurred as alleged in the articles published by the likes of The Gateway Pundit and One America News Network but there was no evidence of it (seriously – what ARE the odds of that?) or (b) that “there is no credible evidence to present because no widespread fraud occurred”. BINGO.
    
    Stop and have a think about that for a moment.
    
    No – really – STOP AND HAVE A THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT.
    
    9. So that brings me to the statements/affidavits. There are two great things about courts: (a) they’re impartial and (b) they’re REALLY good at weighting credible evidence and non-credible evidence appropriately. They deal with people lying through their teeth and trying to mislead day-in and day-out.
    
    10. You hear from your favourite sites that “X thousand of people have come forward to make statements/affidavits etc”; the problem is, they just don’t hold water. Most are aware of the penalties for making a false declaration and are hedging their bets by saying things like “I thought I heard someone say something” or “I thought I might have seen something”. Throughout dozens of trials – by numerous courts – at several levels – in numerous states – the ruling from the judges has been remarkably consistent in saying that evidence that’s been presented has not been credible/reliable.
    
    11. When a whole bunch of courts all independently reach this same conclusion after hearing from the best lawyers money can buy I think you really need to start asking yourself why that is. Why is “the incriminating evidence found on the servers seized in Germany” not being presented? Why is “the Chinese ownership of Dominion” not being presented? I’ll tell you why: It didn’t happen – and they’re not owned by the China. And the same goes for the hundreds of other absurd accusations; they told supporters what they wanted to hear, but they were no more truthful than Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.
    
    12. At this point I think it’s pretty clear that Trump’s objective is pretty much to just continue to milk his supporters for cash; possibly with the intention of running again in 2024. I’ll leave it up to you to decide if you want to be party to being manipulated like that.
    
    I’ll end with a link to a site that lists literally hundreds of things that your favourite sites have reported in recent months; I’ll leave it up to you to decide on their credibility; all I’ll ask is that you try to read some of them with an open mind because – they’re not just someone’s opinion; much like what’s coming out of the courts, the outcome is backed up with references to source materials that you can verify yourself.
    
    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/
    
    Have a scan through the list – I’m sure that you’ll see many many statements that have been quoted here by a few as “evidence”. Click on a few and learn something – even if it’s not what you want to hear.
    
    Oh – and don’t forget to mercilessly down-vote me everyone … because I’m telling you something that you won’t want to hear; unfortunately for you lot, your denial of reality doesn’t change reality — and just like I’ve been saying for months, the transition to a Biden presidency is proceeding normally and on-schedule. How Biden does as president is another question altogether; I’m sure that many here will already have negative opinions about that — mostly based on information from the same biased sources. Personally, I think the country is stuffed regardless of who’s leading it; the only difference will probably be how it’s stuffed … but that’s a different discussion for a different day.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:48pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      There’s plenty of details out there and as an old fraud investigator I would not be using Politifact as a principal source. I have read for myself the voting machine manuals and their “adjustment” features. Also, reviewed a great quantity of other material like the delightful surreptitious counting with the hidden cameras rolling after scrutineers were dismissed. There are plainly cases to answer but the context of handling them is very difficult. This is not simple shop lifting. Deceit does not disappear by changing it’s name and in a political context it can breed. Loyalty to a candidate can take-out reason.
      
      The most important matter is not who actually wins but that the process must be seen to be fair and proper. We are close to having both sides out on the streets.
      SCOTUS has just denied dealing with the Texas complaint without looking at any issues and dismissed it as lacking standing. That’s code for they don’t want to deal with it. I’m sure they don’t.
      Now it’s up to the President and the people once again.
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:05pm
      - C J Southern
        
        I can only conclude that you must have been a REALLY bad fraud investigator.
        
        Instead of judging signposts like Politifact you’d be far better served observing the direction that they’re pointing … but you never do that; it’s the “same old same old” with you; when it’s something that supports the position you favour you accept it as credible – and when it doesn’t, you don’t – despite most of the “evidence of fraud” being irrational, illogical, and patently absurd.
        
        Clearly I’m wasting my time; trying to rationalise with irrational people is clearly impossible.
        
        “There’s plenty of details out there”
        
        No. There’s not. If there were they would have been presented as evidence by now.
        
        “I have read for myself the voting machine manuals and their “adjustment” features.”
        
        No. You haven’t. If you’ve read anything it’s probably either (a) something maliciously created to look like a manual or (b) some point in a genuine manual that you’re being deliberately mislead into believing it to be capable of something that it’s not. Again, if it existed then it would have been presented as evidence by now.
        
        “Also, reviewed a great quantity of other material like the delightful surreptitious counting with the hidden cameras rolling after scrutineers were dismissed.”
        
        No. You haven’t. That was just one of the allegations clearly debunked in the link I previously posted; it comes as no surprise that you’ve chosen not to read it.Off memory that’s just one of the thinks a court refused to accept was credible.
        
        “There are plainly cases to answer”
        
        No. There are not. There has been only hundreds of wilful/childish misinterpretations that are accepted as “fact” by the gulliable because it’s telling them what they want to here and they’re incapable of differentiating between reality and reality as they’d like it to be.
        
        “This is not simple shop lifting. ”
        
        Agreed. And it’s not fraud either.
        
        “Deceit does not disappear by changing it’s name and in a political context it can breed.”
        
        Agreed. There can be no finer example that the deceipt and corruption that Trump is showing now.
        
        “Loyalty to a candidate can take-out reason.
        
        “Loyalty to a candidate can take-out reason”
        
        Yes – again, we’re seeing pleanty of that from people like you.
        
        “The most important matter is not who actually wins but that the process must be seen to be fair and proper”
        
        There has not been ANY evidence that the election was not fair and proper; this has been verified by dozens of courts.
        
        “We are close to having both sides out on the streets.”
        
        Yes – and the SOLE reason for that is because Trump wants to leverage his loss. People like you help to enable that; you’re part of the problem – not part of the solution.
        
        “SCOTUS has just denied dealing with the Texas complaint without looking at any issues and dismissed it as lacking standing. That’s code for they don’t want to deal with it. I’m sure they don’t.”
        
        No. That’s code for “we followed the law”; the appealants were asking them to break the law and they quite rightly didn’t want to have a bar of it.
        
        “Now it’s up to the President and the people once again.”
        
        Now it’s up to President-elect Biden to try and sort out the devicise mess that Trump has created for his own personal gain. Trump has been the living definition of “scorched earth policy”.
        
        Here’s a reality check for you:
        
        – Voting machines weren’t found on a bus in Arizona
        
        – In Wisconsin, there were not 70,000 absentee ballots that did not have matching ballot applications as required by law.
        
        – The probability of Biden winning in Wisconsin, Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania “given President Trump’s early lead … was NOT less than one in a quadrillion” in each state.
        
        – A forensics examination of a Ware County, Ga., Dominion Voting Systems machine did NOT find votes were switched from Donald Trump to Joe Biden.
        
        – People in Germany did NOT see an electoral map that shows Trump beating Biden with 410 electoral votes before Dominion’s servers were seized.
        
        – The USPS did NOT backdate 100K ballots so they could be counted illegally.
        
        – Video footage from Georgia did NOT show suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under a table and illegally counted after election observers were told to leave.
        
        – Dominion Voting Systems are NOT owned by China.
        
        – Dominion Voting Systems employees are NOT “on the run”.
        
        – There were NOT “more votes than people who voted, and in big numbers in certain swing states”.
        
        – Biden did NOT receive a dump of 143,379 votes at 3:42AM (in Wisconsin), when they learned he was losing badly.
        
        – There was no “raid on servers in Germany” by US forces.
        
        And a whole lot more. You’re being played for a fool Kevin; you can either smarten up or keep confirming it. It’s over to you.
        
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        December 12, 2020 6:22pm
    - amospicton
      
      CJ, I’m in the camp that would love for the Dems to be caught cheating because I find them to be a reprehensible bunch of elitist virtue signalling hypocrites. However I’m coming to believe you are correct. It’s implausible that if there was such widescale fraud there wouldn’t be a smoking gun somewhere and despite the desperate searching there doesn’t seem to be one.
      
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      December 12, 2020 5:22pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        I’m in the camp there was more voter fraud than normal due to mass mail-in voting being allowed, but not enough to swing the vote. What clinched it was four years of Russia, Russia, Russia and #OrangeManBad pumped out by a partisan media and late night “comedians”. Smarter people (at least smart on paper) can be more easily fooled by propaganda and misinformation precisely because they think they’re too clever to be fooled. Their ipso facto rationalizations for believing X, Y or Z also tend to be more sophisticated and resistant to counter argument, logic or common sense for the same reason, their self-evident credentialed genius. These educated-beyond-their-intelligence types often end up ruling over us as unelected technocrats in an increasingly authoritarian government. They KNOW they are smart and they KNOW they are right. And therefore you WILL comply. It’s a terrifying scenario that is unfolding all around us.
        
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        December 13, 2020 2:01pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    At least a State of Emergency is likely while a new voting system is sorted out.
    
    Okay, so you’ve completely ignored my response to you last evening, where I said—
    
    “The President’s power to declare a national emergency is governed by the National Emergencies Act [of 1976]. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act.)
    
    “The president’s executive powers under Article II of the Constitution are several, but, under the Act, they don’t include the power to cancel a presidential election (only?) and order a new one. In this regard, see the section headed ‘Emergency powers’.
    
    “Perhaps you can explain what you’re getting at.”
    
    I ask you again to explain what you’re getting at. Specifically, why must a State of Emergency be declared “while a new voting system is sorted out[?]”
    
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    December 12, 2020 2:23pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      …why must a State of Emergency be declared while a new voting system is sorted out? These matters could blossom into widespread street warfare. If so, a State of Emergency may help contain that while the nation is returned to a civil state.
      
      I have read opinion other than Wikipedia on the possibility of a State of Emergency based on the Declaration of Independence. Like most law it’s easy to find six views of a two sided coin and I have no pretence as to US jurisprudence. I can sniff out fraud and believe there are cases to answer but under their rules. Trump is going to have to deal with the present divided nation.
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:21pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thanks for responding, Kev.
        
        These matters could blossom into widespread street warfare.
        
        Could, but won’t. Biden will assume the office of President of the United States in the same way that almost all of his predecessors have, and life will go on.
        
        But, even if RWNJs riot in the streets, and President Biden declares a state of emergency, why would that be cause for “a new voting system [to be] sorted out”? After all, if the “voting system” survived the Civil War, it can certainly survive a presidential transition.
        
        I have read opinion other than Wikipedia on the possibility of a State of Emergency based on the Declaration of Independence.
        
        You have told us this before. Surely, you mean the Constitution. I have read the Declaration of Independence – and the Constitution – a number of times over the last 50+ years, and no way does it provide for a State of Emergency. Don’t forget, it was written in 1776, and settled government didn’t commence until 1789.
        
        Also, when you make statements like “I have read opinion, […]”, would you please give us links to the articles you are referring to, so we can read the opinions, too.
        
        Trump is going to have to deal with the present divided nation.
        
        No, he’s not. He’s out the door in 40 days’ time. That will be down to Biden.
        
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        December 12, 2020 4:15pm
  - C J Southern
    
    “At least a State of Emergency is likely while a new voting system is sorted out.”
    
    FFS – No – Trump isn’t going to “declare any emergency”.
    
    Get a grip.
    
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    December 12, 2020 6:24pm
- Jim
  
  The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed
  as moot.
  
  No surprise there.
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:56pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Yes!
    
    Exactly what I have been saying over the last two days (admittedly, using less-than-judicial language).
    
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    December 12, 2020 2:31pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Indeed. Courts don’t like adjudicating matters involving the Head of State.
    
    I wonder how SCOTUS saw the way forward? The election was badly tainted and I don’t see Trump relinquishing the White House on the basis of it. Law may have gotten in the way of common sense, the latter has to ultimately prevail.
    
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    December 12, 2020 3:30pm
    - C J Southern
      
      “Courts don’t like adjudicating matters involving the Head of State.”
      
      The courts follow the law. End of.
      
      “The election was badly tainted”
      
      No. It wasn’t. There were however a lot of baseless claims made by a lot of people who didn’t get the result they wanted.
      
      “I don’t see Trump relinquishing the White House on the basis of it.
      
      If Trump is still there at 12:01 on the 20 Jan 2021 he’ll be escorted off the property just like any other tresspasser.
      
      “Law may have gotten in the way of common sense, the latter has to ultimately prevail.”
      
      Common sense dictates that when the losing side cries foul but can’t back it up with ANY evidence then the ONLY valid conclusion is that they’re sore losers with no integrity.
      
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      December 12, 2020 6:30pm
- Nick R
  
  Well, you can bookmark this. The Supreme Court just threw out the Texas case. No standing. Another YUGE loss for Trump!
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:05pm
  - Jim
    
    claim Trump won the election
    while true {
    ⠀ refute any contrary claims with:
    ⠀ “it’s all over because of court case N”
    ⠀ spout pseudo-legal gibberish while case is heard
    ⠀ pause while case is lost
    ⠀ google for new conspiracy
    ⠀ N = N plus 1
    }
    
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    December 12, 2020 2:55pm
- virtualmark
  
  iMP, your post didn’t age well.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:11pm
David George

Watched JA going on about the trans Tasman bubble on the “news” last night. She said she didn’t want to “jepradise” our covid status.
What’s that; Jacindish?
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December 12, 2020 8:23am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It really shits me. So what is her exit plan for us?
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:52am
- amospicton
  
  She does it every time David. I can just about handle the comical malapropisms from Justin Marshall et al commenting on the rugby but a prime minister shouldn’t be mutilating the language like this. She’s such a great communicator too apparently!
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:07am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is now clear that this trans tasman bubble will never happen. She has been talking about it forever. Now every state in Australia has opened up to new Zealand. It is time we do the same.
  
  Of course that is not zero risk. All I know is that Jacinda poses more risks to New Zealand than a trans tasman bubble.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:08am
- septic skeptic
  
  It’s an embarrassment that our PM constantly mispronounces words like some cutsie toddler learning to talk.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:19am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Call it what you like but not a travel bubble.
  ‘travel bubble’ a set of countries agree to open their borders to each other, but keep borders to all other countries closed. So people can move freely within the bubble.
  Maybe call it a “JA Burble”, make it up as you go..
  My son had a work mate wanting to come from Aussie to see a very sick mate mate, he will but the idea of quarantine is just absurd, unscientific, and ridiculous. She is not quite as Blowie McGown in WA, but certainly up there.
  Blowie is not even a Sandgroper, he is a seaweed sucker from NSW.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The utterly crazy thing is bringing in seasonal workers from Tonga where there is NO Covid and putting them in a hotel for 14 days on arrival, at great cost and imposing the risk that they will catch the virus.
    
    Yet it is a policy of the New Zealand Government so no surprise.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:00pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yes, and it’s bin going on for far too long.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:17pm
I remember when

Just for those that just know how Donald Trump leads the world in covid stupidity.
Deaths per million:
United Kingdom – 908
United Kingdom – 933
Spain – 1018
Italy – 1049
Belgium – 1524
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December 12, 2020 8:25am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Context, please.
  1. What is the mean age of the deaths? (Would it be higher than the respective average age of death in those nations by any chance?)
  2. What percentage of the deceased had co-morbidities?
  3. Does “covid death” mean “death with covid” or “death due to covid”?
  4. What are the rates of false positives in the testing for the virus? (At a false-positive rate of 1%, you will have 10,000 of them if you test a million people.)
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:00am
- amospicton
  
  Which does beg the question as to why the msm bang on about the disaster in the US. Two possibilities – either they’re just looking the numbers rather than numbers per million or it’s all about Trump. Or both.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:09am
- SB2
  
  “Donald Trump leads the world in covid stupidity.”
  
  Well, he is one of the leaders and explains in a big one why he lost the elections 3/11/20.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:34am
- ISeeRed
  
  Looks like the UK is doubling down. ?
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:38am
- JackRabbit
  
  I think you meant to say USA 908, UK 933 etc
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:34am
- MCos
  
  That 908 is the US.
  I don’t know what’s going on in Spain, Italy & Belgium, but we hear a lot about the UK and their approach sounds like a mess.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:58am
BAM

Will the Trump love-hate wank on here ever be over?
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December 12, 2020 8:33am
- Lance
  
  What BAM wrote
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:28am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I’m with BAM too – pretty over it to be honest
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:19pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Sorry, BAM. At least another 40 days to go (I would imagine).
  
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  December 12, 2020 2:46pm
I remember when

Just a thought:
If the Auckland Regional Council hadn’t bought back my Ports of Auckland shares – would vessels have as many problems as they do at present.
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December 12, 2020 8:39am
- amospicton
  
  No.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:09am
  - hullkiwi
    
    not as many problems as Northport.
    
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    December 12, 2020 9:57pm
iMP

Jacinda’s HATE SPEECH kite.

It is not the role of the State to determine thinking or opinions. We live in a free society. Government is there to SERVE the People not bully us with ideologically underpinned social monitoring or ‘guidance.’
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December 12, 2020 8:41am
- Albert_Ross
  
  I wholeheartedly agree.
  
  Unfortunately, however, what most of “the People” appear to want of the State is precisely that it should interfere in what other people choose to think, say, do and spend their money on. How do we answer Jacinda when she says that she is “serving the People” who want her to do that?
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:50am
  - Crisplion
    
    That is the paradox of democracy foreseen by Karl Popper: If people forget the value base of democracy they can all too easily use its own institutions in the service of tyranny; they can vote democracy out of existence.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:24am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Over 60% of the population have demonstrated they want the Government to wipe their arses for them as per the recent election.
    We are a society of wimps soft cocks weak willed individuals who have jelly fish spines and refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their families instead expecting the Government to provide and provide big time.
    Our grandparents and great grandparents will be spinning in their graves given their self reliance in building this country to once first world status but now declining fast into third world dictatorship with no opposition just cowering fawning forelock tugging for a manipulative scheming and scamming woman.
    Rant over.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:24pm
    - Nickc2
      
      A good rant.
      
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      December 12, 2020 1:36pm
- IC5000
  
  > Government is there to SERVE the People
  
  Except of course when there is a global pandemic which Trump has no responsibility to protect the American people. Isn’t that how it works with Trumpists?
  
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  December 12, 2020 8:57am
  - alloytoo
    
    Maybe he should have acted early, like perhaps restricting travel to the US?
    
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    December 12, 2020 9:50am
  - Nukuleka
    
    A post about Ardern and free speech in NZ and you feel obliged to introduce Trump into the debate. Get over you obsessive Trumpphobia.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:03am
    - IC5000
      
      As soon as you get over your obsessive hero worship. But that’s not going to happen anytime soon because you are incapable to admitting that your hero is a sex abuser, a fraud and is using you.
      
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      December 12, 2020 5:48pm
  - Harriet
    
    Yep – just like the government you can go take something oral – and look after yourself in this current coughing fit.
    
    Merry Christmas to you too. 😎
    
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    December 12, 2020 12:23pm
- Swifty
  
  You might think that. I might think that. But that’s not what lefties think.
  
  They think citizens are there to serve and fund the state. And that the state should be governed by Labour in perpetuity.
  
  Because, you see, it is only through their control of a state apparatus which controls the populace that their glorious socialist vision for us all can be realised.
  
  We are merely little cogs in their great machine and we are there purely to serve our little cogly functions.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:02am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Nor to abuse with impunity neo nazi style hateful racial slurs and vindictive .
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:05am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Wait till you meet the transhumanists.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:02am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @SB2
    Feel free to explain to all who read Kiwiblog why you labelled me as a Alt-right Trumpeter.
    
    Feel free to explain to all who read Kiwiblog why you labelled me as a racist.
    
    I think we are all clear nowadays that when you threw the Alt-right label at many of us on KB, you were accusing us of being neo-Nazis.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:41am
    - Swifty
      
      He slurs other posters the most out of anyone, and for years, but then he is the very one who accuses others of doing it the most!
      
      Same as Mallard, when it suits him he says that it is not in the public interest for the government to sign-up to non-disclosure clauses, but then will happily do that exact thing, again, when it suits him.
      
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      December 12, 2020 11:46am
    - SB2
      
      MW, first things first would you describe yourself as a Trumpeter? ( Trump supporter)
      
      Second what has become of All on Red of late?
      
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      December 12, 2020 12:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I have clearly stated that I have very little interest in US politics.
        
        I am a NZ citizen… I can’t vote in US elections.
        
        How did you ever assume I was interested in Trump?
        
        There are numerous postings on this blog about US and Trump politics… I challenge you to find any comment I made in favour of Trump when you first posted your accusation about me being an alt-right Trumpeter.
        
        Since the results of the last USA election, I have commented that Trump didn’t start any wars…
        That doesn’t make me a supporter of Trump per se.. It merely affirms the importance I have always attached to Pacifism.
        
        Second.. Who or what is All on Red?… Why are you aiming that question at me?
        
        If you are suggesting that I have any links with other folks on this blog, put up some evidence.. don’t try and smear my name with anonymous folk who comment on this blog.
        
        I post under my own name.
        I take responsibility for my comments.
        I am not responsible for the comments of other folks on this blog.
        
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        December 12, 2020 1:42pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @Maggy don’t waste time or effort on something unworthy of your notice. Another way to say it is “don’t feed the trolls” they simply love it and the attention makes them feel special, when we know they’re a different kind of special.
        
        The really deranged trolls always have to have the last word, too. You watch.
        
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        December 12, 2020 10:44pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Txs Loddenthinks
        
        For a few years now SB2 has tried to create the impression that folks who comment/argue/debate here on KB are followers or practitioners of neo-Naziism and Alt-Right thought.
        
        He has thrown accusations around willy-nilly.
        
        He didn’t think very hard or very long when he attempted to link me with such philosophies.
        
        I’ll react each time SB2/Stephieboy tries to assert some moral high-ground on this blog when he has been one of the key offenders at throwing hateful slurs and vindictive comments at individuals.
        
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        December 12, 2020 10:58pm
  - Jack5
    
    Today’s rostered-on SB2/Stephieboy is the one who struggles with English idiom and grammar.
    
    But, hell’s teeth, today’s duty SB2, you are almost incoherent in your 9.05 post. For goodness sake, take it easy on the khat!
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:50am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    People should not be allowed to verbally harass people. Or incite violence. Anyone that taunts a Muslim on the street or tries to pull a hijab off a woman should be dealt with in short order. But we need to be careful in drawing the line. I don’t know why I am engaging. Maybe because it is Saturday. So tell me if these statements should be banned under “hate speech laws”:
    
    “Trans women are not real women”
    
    “The dependence of Hinduism on hierarchical structure of the caste system is evil and needs to be challenged”
    
    “Maori need to address high levels of child abuse”
    
    “Jehovas witnesses are idiots because they prohibit blood transfusions”
    
    So would you prohibit any of those statements under hate speech laws? I am hoping for “yes” or “no”.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:07pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      BenY: No
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:03pm
    - Swifty
      
      Good questions.
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:23pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      No.
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:37pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      The answer is No, they should not be banned. The language is sometimes challenging but perfectly legal, and the statements are either demonstrably true (1 and 3) or sincerely-held opinion (2 and 4).
      
      However, ask the same questions but substitute “should be banned…?” with “will be banned…?”
      
      Sadly, I think the answers would be different.
      
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      December 12, 2020 10:59pm
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  @ iMP
  
  Too late. Freedom of speech is gone because only 1% of New Zealand’s population want freedom of speech.
  
  When the baby-boomer generation die the % of New Zealand’s population who want it will be 0%.
  
  From unfree speech to free speech to unfree speech in 3 or 4 generations.
  
  Alexander Tytler (d.1813) believed that “a pure democracy is a chimera”, and that “All government is essentially of the nature of a monarchy”.
  
  In discussing the Athenian democracy, after noting that a great number of the population were actually enslaved, he went on to say, “Nor were the superior classes in the actual enjoyment of a rational liberty and independence. They were perpetually divided into factions, which servilely ranked themselves under the banners of the contending demagogues; and these maintained their influence over their partisans by the most shameful corruption and bribery, of which the means were supplied alone by the plunder of the public money”.
  
  Here is the Tytler Cycle:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler,_Lord_Woodhouselee#/media/File:Tytler_cycle.png
  
  I STRONGLY RECOMMEND YOU LOOK AT THIS!
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:20am
  - SB2
    
    “Too late. Freedom of speech is gone because only 1% of New Zealand’s population want freedom of speech….”
    
    Absolute nonsense! A kind of covid lockdown gulag/ tyranny mentality
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:28am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  You are so wrong, it is no longer a free society and getting worse by the day.
  The free world I knew as a boy is disappearing before my eyes. I can still post here, which i am thankful but this blog will go the way of many before it, free speech will disappear under these left wing socialists.
  I wonder how many copies of “The Great Reset” Jacinda owns, I guess she has to get inspiration from it several times a day.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:50am
  - MCos
    
    There most certainly wasn’t free speech when I was a boy.
    Tim Shadbolt was prosecuted for saying ‘bullshit’ in public.
    Being a communist, Maoist, Trotskyist, Leninist, of any prominence could guarantee close attention from the SIS.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:32pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      My old man arrested Shadbolt on that occasion, on orders from above for what was seen as a flagrant affront to decency by bloody hippies.
      
      Said Shadbolt was a good bloke to deal with, knew the drill and passed the attitude test. Pretty sure he ended up voting for him as Waitemata Mayor when he retired to Te Atatu as well.
      
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      December 12, 2020 11:10pm
  - SB2
    
    Greg Ettridge, so whats stopping you exercising your free speech here on KB and elsewhere?
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:36pm
    - snowy
      
      The increasingly left wing driven “moderation”.
      That’s what.
      
      2 1
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      December 12, 2020 5:44pm
mark15

Pigmented sealer.
After a bit of a frantic week scratching away at the ‘finish’ coat of wallpaper we’ve finally hit the base layer of wallpaper.
It’s waterproof vinyl dpm snow camouflage.
It’s hideous,dark and gloomy,in the darkest,gloomiest room in the house.Our hall is shaped like a ‘T’ and only one door at the bottom of the T,the front,is glazed, so as you go past all the dpm wallpaper into the house it just gets darker.
The decorator suggested we sand all the dpm wallpaper,seal it and then I can fill the holes created by the wallpaper stripping tools I used perhaps a little too enthusiastically last week.A trip to Bunnings is in order because the price difference on the gear I need is sufficient for me to drive the 20km there instead of going to the local Mitre10.
I despise mitre10.I would rename it ‘OrangeHades’.
SWMBO is going to a birthday celebration and our lodger has his work’s Christmas do tonight,so I will have a bit of metime later.
I might turn my attention to one of the many garage projects I have started and not finished.
So that’s my weekend planned!
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December 12, 2020 8:41am
- Inandout
  
  mark, I have used Resene Sure Seal on fresh plaster, concrete, anything that requires sealing. Oil based so sticks like the proverbial.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:00am
  - mark15
    
    Thats what the decorator recommended.
    The guy in Bunnings said roll it on rather than spray it,too.
    
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    December 12, 2020 4:37pm
- BAM
  
  Should have ripped it all off and put up new plasterboard.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:22am
  - mark15
    
    I’d like that,but perfect is the enemy of good.
    
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    December 12, 2020 4:38pm
  - Colville
    
    Ha.
    I so agree.
    New GIB is such a cheap fix.
    Get a supply/fix/stop contractor $2K for a room. Done and it looks a LOT better than the old stuff plastered to a grade 5 finish so it can be painted.
    
    While you are there put some noise batts in the walls!
    
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    December 12, 2020 5:40pm
- sooty
  
  We put in a solar tube in a house years ago, whan they first came on market!
  It was brillant light up a dark corner.
  Wallpaper covers amutitude of sins.
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:05pm
  - mark15
    
    Are they expensive,solar tubes?
    
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    December 12, 2020 4:35pm
surfing

My tauranga rates increased by 15% this year. Now, they want to increase another 30-40%. Tauranga’s tax maven’s are ruthless. I’ll be paying more in rates than income tax very soon.

“Average rates rises of 18 to 20 per cent next year and totalling 30 to 40 per cent over a three-year period have been forecast for Tauranga.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/rates-rise-of-20-per-cent-forecast-for-tauranga-next-year-as-council-prepares-for-challenging-long-term-plan/YX5HK4ZTWVNT6ALBLUPMWBUEH4/
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December 12, 2020 8:45am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Wellbeing?
  
  9 2
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  December 12, 2020 11:49am
Nookin

I read that the rule change initiated by the speaker and which gives MPs indemnity against suit as well as exemption from the OIA, was signed off by the PM. I wonder what criteria were brought to bear when she decided to endorse the rule change.

Did she give some thought to the fact that the timing was extremely convenient for her in-house protector?

Assuming that there had been no prior debate, did she consider the decision to be a little rushed and maybe required more debate?

And how could she possibly have considered it appropriate to give indemnities and anonymity to perpetrators of hate speech if they happen to be MPs?

We will not get the answers. Just like the episode when there were allegations about a staff member in her office, she ducked for cover. It’s a party matter she said at that time – nothing to do with her.

This time, with the ink of her signature a well dried endorsement of Mallard’s ethical perfidy, she says that the speakers office has nothing to do with her. AND he has after all, apologised and that should be the end of that!

Kindness and forgiveness all round. Sad that the victim has serious health issues, possibly consequential, but is unlikely to see a brass razoo of the taypayers dosh.

In the immortal words of Windsor Davies (Battery Sargeant major Williams)- How sad. Never mind
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December 12, 2020 9:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So Jacinda Ardern can’t divorce herself from Mallard’s defamatory behaviour…
  
  She has assisted him by ensuring he incurs no financial penalty.
  
  Shame, shame, shame.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:17am
  - Nickc2
    
    If John Key had done what Cindy did, all the plods in Wellington couldn’t guarantee his safety from the screaming multitudes of lefties.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:08am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Maggy, her political career depends on this bully shutting down everything and anything she feels uncomfortable with. Which is on many many occasions.
    They are like Siamese twins, very hard to separate.
    
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    December 12, 2020 11:43am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What is Ardern R’s authority for such a remission of liability?
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:50am
- Mike
  
  Parliament has never been subject to the OIA.
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:16pm
I remember when

Since the16th September there have been 233 covid-19 recovered cases.
During that time there have been no deaths.
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December 12, 2020 9:04am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  You mean no covid deaths.
  The really important statistic they don’t report is how many deaths compared with other years.
  You only report what makes the sheeples feel fear and anxiety.
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:57pm
  - MCos
    
    Here’s the official info from Stats for the year to 20-September. Big drop in the number of deaths.
    https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/births-and-deaths-year-ended-september-2020-infoshare-tables
    
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    December 12, 2020 2:34pm
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Fort those who think that Maori were some kind of primitive stone society without the Whitey gene power,

Māori architecture far more sophisticated than people think,

Māori had an ingenious and sophisticated way of building, that made for remarkably stable structures – resistant to the forces of the weather and ground movements.

Contrary to popular perception, they developed these techniques well before the arrival of Europeans – nor were they dependent on the arrival of hammers and nails.

These are the findings of Jeremy Treadwell from Auckland University’s School of Architecture, who just completed a PHD in Māori architectural technology…”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018772687/maori-architecture-far-more-sophisticated-than-people-think
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December 12, 2020 9:07am
- Inandout
  
  SB2, good try but that ‘advanced’ culture had no wheel or written language, the very basics of the beginnings of a well structured society. The Romans had great stadiums and sophisticated buildings well into BC. Just accept the Maori existence was stone age basic.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:04am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Pa, kumera, puakaroa…
    
    3 2
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    December 12, 2020 3:41pm
- Nukuleka
  
  Hoist by your own prejudiced petard sadly. ‘Whitey gene power’ indeed.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:07am
  - Swifty
    
    Exactly.
    
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    December 12, 2020 3:09pm
- Swifty
  
  Note the implied filthy little slur on Kiwiblog posters, “Fort (sic) those who think that Maori were some kind of primitive stone (sic) society without the Whitey gene power…” the implication being that KBers believe any Maori inferiority is genetic and can only be remedied by an injection of whiteness.
  
  Over 12 years, I don’t remember ever reading any KBer posting on here about Maori genetic inferiority and if anyone did they’d get short shrift from the overwhelming majority of posters, if not all.
  
  Why he’s allowed to get away with these unfounded racist slurs is beyond me.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:09am
  - SB2
    
    Where did I bring Kiwi blog posters into the mix? Never mentioned them though I would have to say there would be a small number that may qualify.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:27pm
    - Swifty
      
      What absolute bullshit.
      
      Here you are posting on KB and lead with “For those who…”
      
      Of course you were meaning us; other KB posters.
      
      You haven’t even got the balls to stand by your own posts.
      
      What a creep.
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:11pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You are writing on Kiwiblog….
      
      You specifically started your comment:
      “For those who think Maori were some kind of primitive…”
      
      So if it wasn’t aimed at Kiwiblog readers, who were you attempting to address with your comment?
      
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      December 12, 2020 3:25pm
      - Swifty
        
        He’s been called out and now he’s just trying to slime his way out of it….but not without, I note, having another go on the way out; “though I would have to say there would be a small number that may qualify.”
        
        Sleaze.
        
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        December 12, 2020 4:09pm
- amospicton
  
  Read ‘Moriori A People Rediscovered’ by Michael King SB for evidence that there were certainly elements that resembled that of a ‘primitive stone society’.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:13am
  - SB2
    
    In the book Michael King makes it very clear the Moriori were not a seperate race unrelated to the Maori.
    
    They are Polynessians who came out with the orginal migrants and in about the 16th century migrated from the maninland to the Chathams
    
    Fact.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:31pm
    - amospicton
      
      And were ‘colonised’ by Taranaki Maori – fair enough by the standards of the day – but proceeded to murder and eat their victims and subject the survivors to slavery that ultimately ended in extinction. The MAori regarded them as a separate people and certainly treated them as such. Fact.
      
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      December 12, 2020 5:30pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        I suspect we’ll all be extinct long before Moriori, amospicton. I visited Chatham this year and found them thriving. Not many extinct people have a beautiful new marae, a team of rangers, a fishing fleet, and a Treaty settlement. If you want to get Moriori history right have a look at the website of their representative body the Hokotehi Trust.
        
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        December 13, 2020 12:26am
- Bob
  
  Clearly another example of Auck Uni degrees that aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.
  
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  December 12, 2020 10:18am
  - SB2
    
    Bob , tell us about your” paper degree”?
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:34pm
- Cobolt24
  
  It’s not hard to build earthquake resistant structures when they’re a single storey. Aren’t all buildings meant to be resistant to weather forces?
  
  Not trying to knock them but just being realistic to what these academics come out with.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:11am
- Nickc2
  
  So they were building their own State Houses in those days? It obviously wasn’t an attribute they carried forward once the white man arrived.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:12am
- Jack5
  
  SB2 slips into Stephiestani post-colonial resentment with the phrase, “Whitie gene power”. However:
  
  Maori did a good job with the stone tools they had, and Treadwell is probably doing them, as builders, justice in noticing the slight inclination of posts, the curving of rafters, and what he sees as the “key thing” in their craft:
  
  “The joints were all made to accept the compression that the tensioning kind of put on them … it was the implementation of both the tensioning and these carefully formed joints that gave you these really rigid structures.”
  
  In response to a question from the RNZ host, Treadwell says:
  
  ”Yes, post tensioning has been used in other circumstances in other cultures, but not in this way where the post tensioning and the compression was generated – was kind of set up as a system that was applied to the whole house, forming a whole sequence of these arches ….
  
  “… Yes, the actual principles of post tensioning were known but the way they were applied by Maori were quite different …
  
  “… What seems very likely is that technology actually came from the fact that these guys were great navigators, and they could sail these enormous waka … Anyone who sails a boat knows that when you’re trimming and managing the sails and so forth that you are operating tension and compression systems. So these buildings, and it seems very likely, actually evolved out of a really well-known maritime technology.
  
  As a layman, I thought post-tensioning related to concrete technology, and in a quick Net search I’ve been unable to find anything to widen that view. Perhaps any engineer reading Kiwiblog can help us. If Treadwell is talking about building arches, these have been used for about 4000 years.
  
  Treadwell’s Ph.D. thesis doesn’t seem to be online yet, though he has something filed on architecture in tombs in the Karori cemetery.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:24am
- Fletch
  
  Would that be Maori, or the structures built by the people here before them (the Waipoua Forest Stone City etc..)
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:37am
  - SB2
    
    Fletch , no pre Maori built those so called stone structures in the Waipoua forest etc .
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:33pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    It somehow doesn’t surprise me that folks who think Trump won bigly and is being robbed by a conspiracy in the courts also believe in nonsense about ancient white civilisations in NZ. I hope Fletch wasn’t one of the folks risking his life digging up limestone country for ancient white giants earlier this year:
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/25-02-2020/ancient-giants-and-old-delusions-a-history-of-mysticism-and-racism-in-aotearoa/
    
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    December 13, 2020 12:31am
- David George
  
  Stone age is not a denigration of the people SB, it refers to the technology pre the use of metals. The massive disadvantage for the Maoris in being closed off from developments elsewhere in the world need to be considered.
  Apart from some pretty nebulous understanding of a semi mythical homeland the Pre European Maori had no knowledge of the wider world and it’s technologies.
  The great blessing, thanks to the European explorers, was the Maori’s discovery of the World.
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:59am
- JackRabbit
  
  The original carvers, and specifically stone carvers, arrived here 2000 years ago, bringing with them great carving abilities. They were the peaceful types that cultivated the land. The later arrivals, the Tahitians, were the plunderers, murders, rapists, and cannibals.
  
  Eating the flesh of your opponents on the battlefield, vs having the self discipline to carve greenstone as well as build aesthetic and strong structures as a record of history, are two very different mindsets.
  
  It is worth studying ancient NZ history, and links back to Peru, Easter Island, Hawaii, Alaska and so forth. NZ history involving people living here goes back thousands of years. History has/is been re-written to deny the existence of ancient history, and disconnect the various races from their origins. It simply does not suit the narrative.
  
  But of course rather than investigate, you will no doubt label this as a “conspiracy theory” or “that it has been debunked”. And then you will demand of me “proof”. Any authentic researcher will go looking and investigate, instead of demanding “proof”.
  
  You are probably due for a knee replacement very soon. You’ve probably done some serious damage, with all the “knee jerk” responses when you read a post on KB that you disagree with. 😉
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:04pm
- SB2
  
  Now I wonder what were the 30 downticks for I wonder?
  
  Let me guess…?
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:18pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  Where’s all this sophisticated architecture?
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Plenty in Japan, Korea and China…
    
    multistorey, hundreds of years old, displaying a number of nailless construction techniques
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vju-neTRcAI
    
    https://www.openculture.com/2020/03/see-how-traditional-japanese-carpenters-can-build-a-whole-building-using-no-nails-or-wood.html
    
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    December 12, 2020 2:06pm
    - WaynelSexton
      
      I didn’t realise Maori lived in Japan, Korea, and China….
      
      2 1
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      December 12, 2020 5:22pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        They don’t..
        but I thought you were asking for the location of existing examples of sophisticated wooden architecture.
        
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        December 12, 2020 11:05pm
I remember when

IRW @ 8.25am
Just having a Joe Biden lapse.
United States – 908 (not UK)
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December 12, 2020 9:13am
Tomtoddy

Don’t you love it?? NZ kicked out of the big Paris shindig celebrating 5 years since the Paris Accord. One in the eye for Ardern and her climate emergency. A kick in the goolies for Shaw and his ragtag bunch who want to catwalk the world stage.

Fracking and Covid have done more to change emissions than everything else combined.

Five years after Paris and renewables cant even top 2%. On a cost/benefit basis Paris is all cost and zero benefit. When will they ever learn?
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December 12, 2020 9:16am
- Jade Warrior
  
  I get the sneaky suspicion that securing an invite to that Paris conference is the only reason why Jacinda declared a “climate emergency” in the first place. All talk, no action.
  
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  December 12, 2020 9:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Australia has done way better at reducing emissions than New Zealand.
    
    That is because all they need to do is convert some of their brown coal to renewables. They also are richer country with younger car fleet.
    
    New Zealand is a difficult place to reduce emissions. Read ruinously expensive. We already have mainly renewables. The car fleet is what people can afford.
    
    It is much better to reduce emissions where it is cheap to do so. Yay Australia and Belarus. To try to do it on scale here is insane. The country will be impoverished. I don’t know whether jacinda does not understand or is just being willfully obtuse. Her job is supposed to be to increase the wealth of the nation.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:04am
    - Paulus
      
      Her job is to stay in power.
      
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      December 12, 2020 2:28pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Exactly, Jade.
    
    And no, courtesy of her lttle deal with Trevor to help him out, I will immediately think ‘What’s in it for Jacinda?’ whenever she decides on any seemingly-random action in the future.
    
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    December 12, 2020 10:06am
  - sooty
    
    Big hat and no cattle!
    
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    December 12, 2020 12:08pm
    - kowtow
      
      All piss and wind ,no shit.
      
      1 1
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      December 12, 2020 5:03pm
- Fletch
  
  Hah, that’s a good name for this govt (formally the CoL) – “The Renewables” (shades of The Expendables – a rag tag bunch of has-been movie actors all getting together)
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:40am
Jack5

We have a white swan event. Ballet gives a new twist from “black swan”, a term popularised by Nassim Nicholas Taleb as description for a rare event, impossible to predict.

It’s a mirror transformation of “black face” theatrical entertainment, in which white performers blackened their faces. This practice has long been condemned as racist.

The New York Times reports that Chloe Lopes Gomes, a French dancer and the only black performer with the Staatsballett Berlin, claims she was discriminated against. Gomes says she was told to apply white make-up for performance of “Swan Lake.”

The newspaper says:

Until fairly recently, it has been common practice in ballet companies for the female dancers in ballets like “Swan Lake,” “Giselle” and “La Bayadère” to apply a whitening makeup in order to look like beings from another world, be they swans, sylphides, spirits or Shades. Since most ballet companies — until relatively recently — included few Black dancers in their ranks, little thought was given to this; it was simply part of the creation of a uniform aesthetic effect.

But as companies have become both more diverse and more sensitive to racial issues, most have stopped the practice, or left it up to individual dancers.

In September, Gomes was one of 12 dancers at Staatsballett Berlin whose contracts weren’t renewed.

The New York Times says female dancers powdering or painting their bodies to look whiter probably dates from the 1850s, when romantic ballets popularised ethereal creatures who were variously ghosts, spirits or enchanted beings — such as women turned into swans.

Also fundamental to classical dance; says the newspaper, is “the idea of aesthetic and stylistic uniformity.”

The newspaper quotes the Benjamin Millepied, who stopped use of either whitening paint or blackface during his tenure as director of the Paris Opera Ballet, as stating defenders of these traditions always said that the dancer was simply playing a character. But he argued it was not a valid argument in a context in which one race had oppressed another.
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December 12, 2020 9:27am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ballet is an art work. Some coherency in style is expected among the participants. How would a solitary black swan not affect the attention on the stage among a cast of white clad signets?
  
  Fixed– spray paint the lot with a multitude of colours.
  
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  December 12, 2020 3:52pm
RJ

Australian COVID vaccine trial cancelled – UQ and CSL abandon trials due to ‘unexpected’ false positives for HIV.

https://twitter.com/10NewsFirst/status/1337143815719825409
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December 12, 2020 9:34am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Thanks for link
  An interesting list further down, a list of time frames to get a vaccine to human consumption. Flu the fastest only took 12 years, measles 46 years, and herpes 96 years and still no vaccine.
  The Wu Hu vaccinations will proudly take their place in the Guinness book of records, they won’t be going into my arm anytime soon. I will be well down the back of the line.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:06pm
Maggie Pie

Mornung all 😀
My partner never came home last night. Long lunch obviously. Anyway, I’ve only just gotten up,

Laid in bed for a bit watching telly. Tell you what was disturbing, BBC are reporting that Osama Bin Laden’s right hand man, murdering terrorist and wife beater Abdel-Abdel Bary, is back walking the streets in the UK.
They’ve had to release him from prison….because he’s too FAT!!

Let’s hope they keep Brenton on bread and water.
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December 12, 2020 10:35am
- sooty
  
  Prisoner too fat!
  Feeding him too much and not enough rocks!
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:11pm
- snowy
  
  Didn’t come home? Must have got lucky ?
  
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  December 12, 2020 5:53pm
oldfella

We live in strange times…
Over at No Minister there’s a piece on how today’s lesbians are being stuffed back in the closet for being too ‘bio-essentialist and exclusive’.
https://nominister.wordpress.com/2020/12/12/lesbians-who-dat/

Meanwhile J.K. Rowling calls for an end to the ‘climate of fear’ around the trans debate after being sent ‘heart-breaking’ letters from women who had irreversible gender reassignment surgery
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9034385/JK-Rowling-calls-end-climate-fear-trans-debate.html
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December 12, 2020 10:38am
- oldfella
  
  This piece by Bomber Bradbury slots in nicely with the stuff I posted above.
  
  “Why don’t we call this push for Gender Identity Hate Speech for what it really is? The criminalisation of Rachel Stewart & Ani O’Brien”
  https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/12/12/why-dont-we-call-this-push-for-gender-identity-hate-speech-for-what-it-really-is-the-criminalisation-of-rachel-stewart-ani-obrien/
  
  FWIW, for those of you – like me – who had to look up the names Bomber talks about…
  https://speakupforwomen.nz/the-rachel-stewart-column/
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:11am
Maggy Wassilieff

Forget the folks who’ve lost their jobs during this year and the Growers who can’t get their produce picked and packed….

….NZ is open and all-go for movie-makers
How New Zealand’s film industry boomed during the pandemic
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55272486
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December 12, 2020 11:00am
- niggly
  
  If there is one thing that really pisses me off about Labour/Ardern’s handling of the covid situation, is the preferential treatment when it comes to exemptions.
  
  Nevermind essential workers or infrastructure specialists or yachties trying to escape typhoon season or international students or seasonal workers from the covid-free Pacific … all essential to keep many industries viable across the nation in the cities and regions (and multi-million dollar projects on time and within budget), but hey according to Labour Hollywood movie makers are exempt*.
  
  And before Ardern and Labour bullshit us with “the Ministry of Health make those judgements not us”, well tell us who in Labour was lobbying for these movie makers.
  
  *Just had a thought as I was typing. Since exemptions were granted to “Hollywood”, were there any requests and exemptions from “Bollywood”? If there were requests and no exemptions granted, then are Labour “racist” to Indians? Perhaps the smearer-in-chief Megan Woods or her “do nothing” Dear Leader might wish to comment?
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:23am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, New York has similar hypocrisy with their film crews.
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/los-angeles-restaurant-owner-calls-out-covid-lockdown-hypocrisy/vi-BB1bIclY
  
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  December 12, 2020 11:30am
- sooty
  
  On the labour governments dime to have cindy front and centre on the red carpet on opening night
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:16pm
  - MCos
    
    John Key was more attracted to the red carpet, particularly if the ABs were winning silerware
    
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    December 12, 2020 3:11pm
oldfella

Remember, Ayoteearower: ‘China is asshole!’

The Great China-Australia Divorce Has Arrived:
These days, Australia is quite simply “country non grata” in Beijing.
How did things get so bad? Hell hath no fury like a suitor scorned, and if Australia-China relations have turned bad, it’s only because they were so good for so long.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2020/12/the-great-china-australia-divorce-has-arrived/
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December 12, 2020 11:33am
Nickc2

Nancy Pelosi sacrifices her own constituents to Covid-19 for political purposes. Self-confessed.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/12/fmr-us-navy-seal-ltcdr-dan-crenshaw-usn-retd-with-perfectly-expressed-righteous-disgust-at-nancy-pel.html
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December 12, 2020 11:41am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING NZH:

Newly appointed Police Minister (and all-round nice gal) Poto Williams, urges Aucklanders “……to remain calm and look out for each other” as gun violence and bloodshed surges in the city, due to the influx of ‘501s’ arriving back here from Australia.

Yup, that should do it, eh?
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December 12, 2020 11:50am
- RJ
  
  She’s police minister? Gawd, as bad as that dickhead union leader being health minister.
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:09pm
- sooty
  
  Never mind our own home grown ones protecting the patch!
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:13pm
RJ

Hmmm, ours went up thanks to some stupid idiot in government getting rid of discount for actually paying your bill because the lazy who didn’t pay complained.

Data released by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment showed the national average residential power bill was down by $126 a year, on five years ago.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/12/new-zealanders-average-power-bill-drops-to-decade-low.html
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December 12, 2020 12:03pm
Swifty

Does anyone else note the irony in the positions taken by the modern left with respect to both historical Maori grievances and their approach to resolving (modern) inequality and the like in NZ?

On one hand the NZ lefties constantly decry the (often unlawful, underhand and downright wrong don’t get me wrong) confiscation of Maori land, wealth etc and constantly imply that if they were alive at the time they would have done everything in their power to stop it.

But on the other hand, they constantly raise issues of inequality (which I am not at all convinced is the monster they make it out to be), pay disparities, poverty etc etc – and what is their proposed remedy? More confiscations! Greater confiscations of NZers wealth through increased taxation and using the power of the state to force private individuals and business owners to pay their employees more than they would otherwise agree to do through ‘fair pay’ legislation, living wage agreements, minimum wage rises etc etc.

Do you think it has ever occurred to them how utterly two-faced this is? That they choose the very means they decry (state confiscation) to attempt to resolve the modern dragons they choose to invent and attempt to slay?

But I guess as our good friend burt puts it – it’s ok when the left do it.
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December 12, 2020 12:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Problems with the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Christchurch Massacres

On its release this week, it became immediately apparent that the commission’s work had been hindered not only by the restrictive terms of reference, but also by the fact the Muslim community had not been allowed to see, hear or challenge relevant information. As no public hearings had been held, conflicting testimony was unresolved and significant matters left unattended.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/dec/11/new-zealands-christchurch-muslim-women-should-not-have-to-bear-the-burden-of-rebuilding-after-christchurch-on-their-own
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December 12, 2020 12:13pm
- sooty
  
  Is that overseas journalists putting the boot into cindy and ours?
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:20pm
- fernglas
  
  There comes a time when a victim’s right to involvement in the process has to take a back seat to issues of national security. This is one of them. It’s unfortunate if that has led to anomalies and unresolved issues, but a balance had to be struck between the inquiry being as comprehensive as possible, and the rights of victims to participate
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:22pm
- mandk
  
  Well, you wouldn’t want the government to be open and transparent, would you Maggie?
  
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  December 12, 2020 12:45pm
Mike

Parliament has never been subject to the OIA.
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December 12, 2020 12:16pm
kiwikidsnz

Free speech subject matter expert, Rowan Atkinson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqDZlAZygU
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December 12, 2020 12:35pm
RJ

TEXAS V. PENNSYLVANIA, ET AL.
The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of
complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of
the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially
cognizable interest in the manner in which another State
conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed
as moot.
Statement of Justice Alito, with whom Justice Thomas joins: In my view, we do not have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within our original jurisdiction. See Arizona v. California, 589 U. S. ___
(Feb. 24, 2020) (Thomas, J., dissenting). I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.
CERTIORARI GRANTED
GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP, ET AL. V. AR TEACHER RETIREMENT, ET AL. The petition for a writ of certiorari is granted.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/121120zr_p860.pdf
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December 12, 2020 12:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Corrupt fact checkers are silencing you.
https://rumble.com/vbsrv3-revealed-facebook-fact-checker-bragged-about-being-on-team-hillary.html?
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December 12, 2020 12:45pm
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore) Yeah, ‘Fact Check’ = Dem Check.
  
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  December 12, 2020 6:52pm
Maggie Pie

WOW!! 17,000 ‘likes’ in the the last 5 minutes 😀
I haven’t had that many views since i posted a pic of my main course on Instagram

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1337541208831307776
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December 12, 2020 12:50pm
Don Beckett

It would appear that the SCOTUS has denied the Texas lawsuit.(from my friend’s blog in Illinois)

“Alito and Thomas dissent:
(ORDER LIST: 592 U.S.)FRIDAY, DECEMBER 11, 2020ORDER IN PENDING CASE155, ORIG. TEXAS V. PENNSYLVANIA, ET AL.
The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot.
Statement of Justice Alito, with whom Justice Thomas joins: In my view, we do not have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within our original jurisdiction. See Arizona v. California, 589 U. S. ___ (Feb. 24, 2020) (Thomas, J., dissenting). I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.”
The Supreme Court is sitting this one out.

So I would say that Trump has no more grounds on which to resist. So It’s farewell President Trump until 2024, and hello fake President Biden until Kamala backstabs you.
Oh, and goodbye USA as we knew it. Biden will allow Chinese hegemony to demote USA to a vassal state, but the American people will fight back.
.
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December 12, 2020 12:54pm
- Fletch
  
  Yeh, looks like it could be over. Although PA petitioners have filed for a writ of certiorari. But yeh, SCOTUS have caved, apart from Alito and Thomas. Cowards.
  
  I would say the U.S is screwed. Especially with Manchurian Candidate Biden in charge. ANd all his appointments are people who are pro-China.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:04pm
  - Batman
    
    Hahahahaha!!
    
    I told you so.
    
    5 16
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    December 12, 2020 1:40pm
    - Fletch
      
      As someone said on another board –
      
      “Yea, so what is the use in voting if they rules change as they go and when caught cheating, there is no relief at all. No court, no DOJ, nothing. The big FU”
      
      It’s a disgrace. A total shambles.
      
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      December 12, 2020 1:48pm
      - fernglas
        
        You’d have to say that the highest court in the most powerful democracy in the world has a bit more credibility than some of the raving nutjobs who have been doing Trump’s bidding over this.
        
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        December 12, 2020 4:19pm
- Fletch
  
  ps, if I was Texas, I would still get the legislature to send it’s preferred electors.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:13pm
- Don Beckett
  
  My friend’s comment on his own blog, replying to a commenter:
  “DONALD R. MCCLAREY(The blog host)
  Standing is a handy doctrine when courts don’t want to touch something. It was made up out of whole cloth by the Court in 1922. I note the gutless wonders of the Court made this a Friday night dump, as all politicians do when they are sending out something controversial.
  
  The idea that a state does not have standing to assert a provision of the Constitution is risible. I expected something like this after they refused to take up the Pennsylvania case 9-0, but it still shows the judiciary at its very worst: cowardly, deceitful and feckless.”
  Interestingly, the two dissenting judges were not Trump appointees.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:24pm
  - Fletch
    
    And with all the trouble they went to, to get Barrett in there, and her supposed to be a die-hard Constiutionalist. I suppose the judges are afraid of death threats and threats to their families.
    
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    December 12, 2020 1:32pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I suspect SCOTUS saw the can of worms emerging from any decision to affirm the Texas case. They do need to keep some separation from the President and their decision may have precipitated further trouble. The have preserved their standing and that was necessary too. Sometimes law may not effect justice.
    I don’t see a peaceful outcome .
    
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    December 12, 2020 4:14pm
    - fernglas
      
      Any comment on legal issues which begins with the words “I suspect” generally means “I haven’t a clue what I’m talking about”. The notion of standing in a Court of law has been around since Roman times at least. Basically, they are saying that Texas has no right to interfere in the way another state conducts its elections. Its simple enough. There doesn’t need to be some huge conspiracy behind it. It is just 7 very highly qualified and capable people doing the job the American constitution requires them to do.
      
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      December 12, 2020 4:24pm
      - fernglas
        
        9
        
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        December 12, 2020 4:27pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      I don’t see a peaceful outcome .
      
      And you just can’t wait until it all goes off, can you Kev?
      
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      December 12, 2020 6:34pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    […], but it still shows the judiciary at its very worst: cowardly, deceitful and feckless.
    
    What a load of utter nonsense.
    
    Moving on, I note that you have ignored my response to you yesterday at General Debate (5:45PM). Have you, perchance, read my several other comments on this matter over the last two days?
    
    Regardless, as I said to Kev earlier, the 38 Texas electors will vote for Trump and Pence on Monday – guaranteed.
    
    So, I now ask you, Don, to please tell us how Texas was “seriously injured” by the four Defendant States? Because that is what Texas had to demonstrate to the Court, but was unable to. (If you Googled and at least skim-read the two papers I brought to the attention of Kiwibloggers on Thursday – Here’s all the courts Trump has lost in, at 1:18PM – you will know what I’m referring to.)
    
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    December 12, 2020 6:14pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Oops! “[A]s I said to Fletch earlier, […].” (At 1:46PM, above.)
      
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      December 12, 2020 8:30pm
- Happy1
  
  The U.S.will be fine Don, it’s just democracy at work. The U.S. got along before Trump and manage without him just fine. Although you may need a replacement conspiracy to add to your remaining ones such as global warming doesn’t exist, covid 19 is no worse than the flu, Jacinda is a communist and the Chinese are taking over the world etc. You will probably settle for white anting the vaccine.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:36pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s early days yet. Trump is not a nursing home candidate.
  Standby.
  
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  December 12, 2020 4:17pm
Maggie Pie

And one more thing before i head out.
For the last 4 hours ZB have been leading their News Bulletins with the story about “….a travel bubble being created between us and the Cook Islands”

Honestly, who gives f- – k??
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December 12, 2020 1:08pm
- MCos
  
  Probably the Cook Islanders who rely on NZ tourists & the NZers who fancy a break over there.
  Not to mention Cook Islanders who want to work over here & people here who want to employ them without the burden of a fortnight’s incarceration.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:43pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Our neighbor (single mum \ 2 kids) holidayed in Raro last year, Five Star waterfront hotel. Booked 10 days, stayed 2 and moved elsewhere. The ‘pool boy’ did nothing but perv on her the hole time.
    Found out later he had been deported back there after serving three years here for indecent assault on a school girl. And had been an overstayer.
    Like she said, could have saved a fortune in airfares and just booked a South Auckland Motel for the school holidays.
    
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    December 12, 2020 3:02pm
    - Mike
      
      There are no ‘overstayers’ from the Cook Islands.
      
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      December 12, 2020 4:51pm
    - Jack5
      
      Heading in Sydney Morning Herald:
      
      New Zealand creates its first ‘travel bubble’ … just not with Australia
      
      The Cook Islands are an insignificant source of customers for our tourist areas like Queenstown. Australia is the immediate key.
      
      As for a source of workers: the Cook Islands runs a scheme for New Zealanders to do seasonal work in the Cook Islands.
      
      https://cookislands.travel/news/foreign-work-permits-cook-islands-explained
      
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      December 12, 2020 4:59pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Won’t be operating before end of March at the earliest… so just a gap-filler to take our attention away from the fact that it’s safe to travel to Oz, but our PM thinks otherwise.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/432689/nz-cook-islands-announce-quarantine-free-travel-bubble
  
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  December 12, 2020 2:09pm
- Paulus
  
  Isn’t that where Aitutaki is where she wants to get married so that the media can be invited. ?
  
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  December 12, 2020 2:34pm
Fletch

Mark Levin on SCOTUS –

The irony of the Supreme Court’s latest duck is that, in the end, it may have ruined itself — that is, if the Democrats take both Senate seats in Georgia, and Biden is sworn in as presidents, Schumer has made clear his intent to destroy the Court as an independent institution. Consequently, the Court’s unwillingness to even hear significant challenges will boomerang.
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December 12, 2020 1:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

FFS!

Serious vicious assaults on daughters and Father receives 9 months home detention…. because of “cultural displacement”.

The man hit his daughter in the face then kicked her in the back as she lay on the floor.

He struck her with a belt several times, dragged her by the hair and spat in her face twice, the court heard.

Three weeks later, his younger daughter got the same treatment.

The defendant saw a ring on her finger and a social media post about a boy that had garnered 400 likes.

He pulled off the jewellery then took to her with the belt, using both the strap and the buckle.

Next he hit her with a phone charger and finally made the girl kiss his feet.

As the injured victim crawled around on her hands and knees, the defendant dragged her around the room by her hair, pulling clumps of it out.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/crime/%E2%80%98cultural-displacement%E2%80%99-cited-assaults
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December 12, 2020 1:14pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Bloody disgusting – our courts are no better – or worse – than the USA courts.
  
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  December 12, 2020 1:27pm
- Jack5
  
  Where do they find judges like this? What about the victims?
  
  Judge Emma Smith said the family had fled their home and spent years living in a single garage in another country before arriving in New Zealand.
  
  “You were driven by your need to protect them from death and deprivation in the hope of a better life, leaving behind family and people you love, a culture you understood, a faith easily practised.”
  
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  December 12, 2020 2:20pm
Fletch

To be honest, I would be disappointed if Biden had won the election fairly, but not that upset. People vote the way they vote. But what galls me no end is that the Democrats cheated openly and got away with it. It now sets a precedent that the state legislatures are no longer in charge of elections. The whole system is open to fraud, with mail-in ballots no longer needing to be checked for legal signature, postmarks, whether it arrived in time, or practically anything else. Just the mere presence of a vote will have it be counted.

A sad day for a once great country. The American people can no longer have faith in their voting process.
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December 12, 2020 1:30pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Agreed Fletch. If Biden had won fair & square, no problem – a problem for the USA, but they would have voted for him so they get what they deserve. But this election is so fraudulent that it causes me to wonder what will happen in four years time – the winner will be who can jack the vote the most.
  
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  December 12, 2020 3:10pm
  - SGA
    
    But this election is so fraudulent
    
    Well, there are always the criminal prosecutions for fraudulent behaviour to come, Don. Not just the scattering of small scale things that do occur from time to time in elections. There is, apparently, a “massive” amount of evidence associated with a “massive” amount of fraud. This can (and should!) be prosecuted irrespective of the election results. Then the world will see what you and Fletch are talking about, and you can crow about it.
    
    The alternative is that you’ve been taken in.
    
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    December 12, 2020 3:54pm
  - SB2
    
    But Biden did win fair and square. It’s only Trump and his sycophantic follwers who think its the other way around
    
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    December 12, 2020 4:10pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The evident fraud has been too great.
  SCOTUS has kicked the can down the road probably because they want to keep their separation from the Head of State. I note they didn’t want to argue “standing” either.
  
  POTUS has some very serious decisions to make. I do not envisage Biden encouraging electoral reform and could the USA sustain another election of this manner?
  I suspect this is the last chance to fix it and some vigour may be needed.
  
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  December 12, 2020 4:02pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    You’re right Kev. In my comment above where I quote my friend’s comment on his own blog, Don McClarey is a lawyer in Illinois of 28 years standing and is very familiar with the Constitution and all matters legal.
    Where he says,” Standing is a handy doctrine when courts don’t want to touch something. It was made up out of whole cloth by the Court in 1922. I note the gutless wonders of the Court made this a Friday night dump, as all politicians do when they are sending out something controversial.” I would suggest that he knows exactly what he is talking about.
    
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    December 12, 2020 4:55pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  Don’t despair, if SCOTUS won’t do their job Trump has every right to invoke the Insurrection Act to uphold the constitution.
  
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  December 12, 2020 5:31pm
Greg Ettridge

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9042721/Melbourne-cricket-star-REFUSES-knee-Black-Lives-Matter-BBL-match.html
What a great news statistic this is.
Ben dunk is the only Melbourne big bash player not to take the knee.
The votes for him 7,980, in first 9 comments
Votes against him, 260
So a few are against him, the vast majority are behind his stand.
What a refreshing story and very heroic person for calling out the bullshit by himself.
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December 12, 2020 1:41pm
bruceavon

Supreme Court rejects Texas suit, as some of us have predicted for days. Its all over.
Any comments from Trump fans?
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December 12, 2020 1:47pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Time for the Military approach Mister President.
  
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  December 12, 2020 3:10pm
  - SB2
    
    KevO’Brien,what “evident fraud”?
    
    MP,that should now be former Mr President.
    
    1 6
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    December 12, 2020 4:13pm
  - fernglas
    
    The Military approach? Is that the one where the Sergeant-Major says “Brace up and stop your snivelling”?
    
    2 1
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    December 12, 2020 4:29pm
  - Mike
    
    Even in NZ, fascism has its cheerleaders.
    
    5 2
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    December 12, 2020 4:55pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    You’re a hard lady, Maggie.
    
    4 1
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    December 12, 2020 5:07pm
- Inandout
  
  bruce, I have 7 days of sunshine to look forward to and outside is where I will be. It was a fun ride and now the spotlight can swing onto Joe; but that is another story.
  
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  December 12, 2020 3:56pm
- barnacle bill
  
  @bruce
  Trump is the Great Pretender.
  
  He has not been a Presidents backside over the last four years.
  Good riddance to bad rubbish.
  
  4 4
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  December 12, 2020 4:53pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  Not even Trump thought the courts were going to do their job.
  There’s a reason Trump created Space Force, a military wing that only reports to him?
  Hmmm it’s like people thinking the Special Air Service is to do with the airforce.
  Trump has given the Democrats a way out through the courts. If they want to continue to lie and cheat, then Trump has every right to uphold the constitution by invoking the Insurrection Act.
  
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  December 12, 2020 5:44pm
Fletch

ps, watch for the investigations into Hunter and the rest of the Biden clan and China, and Hunter and his taxes magically vanish, just as Joe got them to do in the Ukraine…
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December 12, 2020 2:29pm
Fletch

I still say that state legislatures should send their own electors –

States allow the popular vote to determine the appointment of electors, but Trump and his allies could use friendly state legislatures and governors to send alternate—or in the case of states with Republican legislatures and Democratic governors, additional—electors. When the electoral college convenes on Dec. 14, states with competing electors would cast double their allotted votes, forcing Senate president Mike Pence to figure out what to do with the doubled-up votes. If Pence threw out the extra votes and neither candidate hit 270, the decision goes to the House. There, each state delegation gets one vote; currently, in 27 states, a majority of delegates are Republican.
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December 12, 2020 2:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/eric-swalwells-girlfriend-revealed-to-be-president-xi-in-a-wig?
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December 12, 2020 2:59pm
Fletch

Rush Limbaugh mentioned the word “secession” in his latest show but backed off from the idea himself. But still – wouldn’t it be good to leave the liberals live in their own muck. See what a mess they make of a country wholly Democrat. It would be a zone of crime-ridden filth. Just look at Democrat run cities now… Imagine a whole country like that.
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December 12, 2020 3:04pm
RW Capitalist

I heard Grant Robertson on the radio the other day.
The housing crisis is very big, we will start on it after Xmas.
Well Grant you go away and have a nice holiday till the end of January. Meanwhile we’ll look at your record on housing and what we can expect.
Housing benefit recipients go from
4000 in 2007
to
20000 in 2020
16000 in 156 weeks
ie 102 per week
so
with you away for the next 6 weeks, what happens to the 612 newly on the housing benefit?
I think they may view housing as more of an emergency than bloody climate change.
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December 12, 2020 3:28pm
Captain Mainwaring

Kyle Jamieson is going to be our best fast bowler ever.
What say you Tony Stuart?
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December 12, 2020 3:41pm
- Mike
  
  Early days yet. He is certainly looking good. Could be a champion all-rounder.
  
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  December 12, 2020 5:02pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING….. and OMG – THIS IS HUGE!!!

Big hole blown in Prince Andrews ‘Pizza Express’ alibi

https://twitter.com/NEWS_MAKER/status/1337601767597543424
9 4
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December 12, 2020 4:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He’s just a naughty boy, but Mother is spitting tacks
  
  5 2
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  December 12, 2020 4:56pm
Don Beckett

Yeah Maggie. Twitter is the judge, jury & executioner nowadays.
Way bigger than the latest Trump story. 🙂
5 2
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December 12, 2020 4:59pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Must have missed that one Donnie – whats happened?
  
  4 2
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  December 12, 2020 5:16pm
Maggie Pie

And you’ll be pleased to hear this…

One filthy scumbag fewer in the world. CNBC are reporting ‘Alfred Bourgeois’, who tortured and murdered his 2-yo daughter, has had his Federal death sentence carried out.

Thank you Mister President – keep up Gods work.
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December 12, 2020 5:39pm
Captain Mainwaring

Yep, I second that Maggie.
4 2
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December 12, 2020 7:53pm
Fletch

Rudy says it’s not over….

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/12/11/giuliani-says-trump-team-not-finished-after-supreme-court-defeat/

There are still multiple ways Trump can win –

https://nationalfile.com/how-trump-can-win-scotus-state-supreme-courts-legislatures-and-the-12th-amendment/
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December 12, 2020 10:03pm
- Batman
  
  You’re welcome to trust the guy with hair powder leaking down his face
  
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  December 13, 2020 1:59am
JJ56

Speakers Directions make it clear the PM would have signed off on Mallard’s legal fees (earlier comment seems lost in the ether):

39 Legal costs
(1) A member’s legal costs from defending civil proceedings in a court or tribunal
may be met from party and member support funding if the relevant party
leader, the Speaker, and the Chief Executive have approved the payment of
those costs from party and member support funding.
(2) In considering whether to approve the payment of legal costs, the relevant
party leader, the Speaker, and the Chief Executive must consider—
(a) the extent to which the member’s involvement in the proceedings is due
to the member acting in their capacity as a member of Parliament; and
(b) the extent to which the liability for the legal costs arises from the member’s personal wrongdoing or impropriety.
(3) Legal costs includes the following:
(a) costs of legal advice and representation:
(b) any damages or compensation awarded against the member:
(c) any payments to settle the claim against the member:
(d) awards of costs against the member in favour of another party to the proceedings.
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December 13, 2020 3:17pm

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