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December 11, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 December 2020

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General Debate

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Tony Stuart

Why is Chris Hipkins sitting on a review which is believed to be critical of the Ministry of Health’s response to Covid-19?

National MP Chris Bishop is pressuring COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins to release the findings of an independent review into the Government’s border testing system.

The Government commissioned the COVID-19 Surveillance and Testing Strategy Group under urgency in August after it emerged border response workers weren’t getting tested for the virus as thoroughly as the Government had been led to believe.

Led by former Prime Minister Helen Clark’s chief of staff Heather Simpson and Sir Brian Roche, whose background involves chairing a wide range of boards including NZTA, the pair were tasked with identifying flaws in the system.

Hipkins revealed in Parliament last week his office received a copy of the report on September 30. It was sent back to the panel after the Ministry of Health disagreed with some of the findings, and the final report was delivered on November 27.

“The report should have been released before the election – but as we learned today in Parliament, the Government has simply sat on the report since then. The minister would not even commit today in Parliament to releasing the report before Christmas,” Bishop said earlier this week.

“This is simply unacceptable – The suspicion must be that the Ministry of Health has spent the time since September 30 fighting to stop the report being released and trying to change the findings of the independent panel.”<.i>

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/12/covid-19-response-minister-chris-hipkins-under-pressure-to-release-findings-of-border-testing-review.html

Could it be that Chris Hipkins has sat on this report until after Parliament rises for the Christmas recess, thus avoiding any scrutiny in Parliament until February at the earliest? Surely the “most open and transparent government ever” would be above such cynical politics…
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December 11, 2018 8:49am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Good post Tony ?
  
  Curious how it was somehow miraculously posted 2 years ago though… ??
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:31am
- Eh?
  
  OK, I’ll play. I can think of two possible recommendations that Simpson and Roche may have made that could lead the Minister to wanting to hide the report.
  
  Firstly, that St Ashley, while being the ideal man to front the public health response, actually isn’t a particularly good leader of the MoH bureaucracy and should be replaced as Director General. I have some sympathy for Hipkins if that is the case, imagine selling that one to the public – particularly just before the election!
  
  Secondly, that this is a general rule rather than a specific instance and that St Ashley’s replacement – and all future Directors General of Health – should be Civil Servants rather than Medical Professionals. There isn’t a holiday period dead enough to release that bit of news to a sceptical public.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:54am
Critical Thinker

President Trump Announces Yet Another Historic Middle Eastern Peace Deal ?️
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-africa-israel-north-africa-morocco-4279242f6f688d242bad5c7a64e29caf

Just imagine how peaceful the Middle East and the world will be with another term of President Trump…
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December 11, 2020 8:01am
- Surely Knott
  
  I’ve checked the Herald. Nothing on the peace deal. This important opinion piece however made the cut, “Trump received care other’s cant.” Yawn.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:34am
  - alloytoo
    
    US presidents receive care other’s can’t?
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:30am
    - peterwn
      
      I cannot find the item, but AFAIK USA Presidents have to pay personally for the care they receive at the US Navy Hospital in Maryland.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:57am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’m sure we can all sleep more safely in our beds now that the war between Morocco and Israel is over.
  Next up, ‘peace’ deals between Israel and Bangladesh, Mauritania, Senegal and Bosnia.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:37am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Don’t fret Mikey, Biden will start bombing the Middle East again as soon as he gets his feet under the desk.
    Iran will give him a list of “problems” they want sorted, maybe even a Nobel in it for him.
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:54am
    - pdm
      
      `Biden will start bombing the Middle East again as soon as he gets his feet under the desk.’
      
      JJ – by the look of him someone would have to tell him to. I don’t think he could work it out for himself.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:10am
      - Jimmy White
        
        The only thing Biden is capable of bombing is his presidency
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:56am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Of course they’ll have to tell him to. Right after they tell him his name, where he is and what the list of instructions says.
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:07am
      - JibberJabber
        
        What’s this Red button here for? ?
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:10pm
    - lastmanstanding
      
      On the matter of Biden/Harris it is no surprise the CCP are imposing trade sanctions on Australia. This is to test the new Administration. Do they continue and ramp up the sanctions against China or do they do a Neville Chamberlain and look the other way.
      
      The CCP agenda has a very long time frame. One of their agenda items with the FTA with NZ was to establish themselves as a major trading partner. At some point they could then force NZ ( and other countries) to choose between China and the US.
      
      The CCP wants to replace the US as the worlds leading power house. If a Government like NZ doesnt bend to the CCP then its very easy for the CCP to damage the economy with a resultant change of government.
      A new government wont need to be told what will happen to it if it doesnt follow the CCP wishes.
      
      And given Cindys role a decade or so ago its not hard to see her and the Greens bending to Chinas wishes.
      
      So what do the CCP want. First they want the NZ Government to ensure there is no dissent against China. Having worked for Asian companies for many years there is the matter of “face”. Face is all important. White eyes dont understand this so miss the deep need for Asians to be accepted and not embarrassed in any way.
      Second they want the Government to ensure the two countries ideology is aligned. This is a very long term process but remember China has a history of over 3500 years so time it not an issue for the CCP.
      The test will be whether our Government stands with Australia and the US or wether tries to sit on the fence and gets splinters in its arses. The CCP wont tolerate sitting on the fence. You are either with them or an enemy.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:15am
      - sooty
        
        Oh, jacin-DUHs bought already!
        Clarkunfehrer will give her the orders!
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:12am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The Aussies were trapped when they sold the ownership of a large part of their mineral wealth to China. They effectively became a Chinese satellite.
        
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        December 11, 2020 11:25am
      - The Housekeeper
        
        This is a great, timely lesson for NZ exporters against putting too many eggs in one basket. I hope the Aussies stick to their guns and take the short-term financial hit. Their products are good and others will want them.
        
        In the meantime, the love affair that was Australia and China, which saw Australia become more and more dependent on exports to China, has turned toxic. China has repeatedly shown itself as the aggressive, bully partner, drunk on power and insistent on submission, lately dishing out a public hiding to the Mrs, repeatedly, in a pathetic show of strength. Mrs Aussie has made a big mistake. She has taken up with a bad man. He’s even taking over her islands and making new rules. When others dare to point out that he is an asshole, he accuses some of Mrs Aussie’s boys of being assholes too so Mrs Aussie should just shut up unless she wants another bashing. Same goes for her friends. To keep the peace, Mrs Aussie has put on the sunglasses to hide the bruises and is playing the devoted but hurt wife for the cameras. She says she still loves him but we can see the damage has been done.
        
        I’d be surprised if China’s actions against Australia were winning them many friends but I do thank China for the very loud warning to NZ exporters. Why would you trust anyone in gummint to decide which markets are in your best interest?
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:32pm
      - towaka
        
        You have it around the wrong way LSM.. after Obama’s “pivot to Asia”, the U.S enacted its containment policy of China and set the scene for the situation we are are now in.
        
        John Mearshiemer (who wrote a seminal book on great power politics) predicted in many speeches etc that once the U.S enacted a containment policy towards China that they would force countries like Australia to choose sides. This is now playing out in so many ways, for example whether a country has Huawei in its 5G network or not.
        
        The Chinese way would be more like the tribute system of the past and be more nuanced. But part of the tribute system was “face” and Scmo and his advisors seem to be ignorant of this hence the trouble brewing for their economy.
        
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        December 11, 2020 2:45pm
      - IC5000
        
        > Mrs Aussie has made a big mistake. She has taken up with a bad man.
        
        Agree. Scott Morrison is as stupid as a rock and fell hook, line and sinker for CCP trolling.
        He made himself look weak by being so emotional. Correction, he is is weak.
        
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        December 11, 2020 3:01pm
- Batman
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Trump has been rage-tweeting in his pyjamas for a month, he didn’t negotiate jack.
  
  Full credit to the career officials on all sides, however. They are the ones who actually did this.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:12am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Especially full credit to the Obama/Biden Secretary of State John “There will be no separate peace between Israel and the Arab world” Kerry. Right Batman? ?
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjgQuVH6X_4
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:24am
    - Batman
      
      The officials still do the bulk of the work.
      
      Though it does have to be said that Kerry basically lived in switzerland while they negotiated the deal to rein in Iran. I don’t see Pompeo doing that unless he’s getting some side bonuses (which he’s under investigation for)
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:46am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Still convinced that the Hunter Biden laptop and related shonky “business” deals were all “Russian Disinformation” Batman ?
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:23pm
- Ehlana
  
  From that link, Critical Thinker:
  “For Morocco, it’s a major achievement, too: U.S. recognition of its claim to Western Sahara, something not recognized by the United Nations and the subject of an international dispute for decades.
  
  But it’s a blow for hopes for autonomy for those in Western Sahara who have fought for independence and want a referendum on the territory’s future. The former Spanish colony, with a population estimated at 350,000 to 500,000, is believed to have considerable offshore oil deposits and mineral resources.”
  
  So Morocco agreed to normalise relations with Israel in return for the US agreeing that Morocco owns Western Sahara (and it’s oil) – something it appears the people of Western Sahara have not agreed to. Doesn’t sound like a recipe for peace to me.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:24am
  - Mike
    
    So the price paid for an empty gesture was to sell Western Sahara down the road.
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:15pm
- Scott
  
  Critical thinker – isn’t it amazing that after all these years countries are normalising relations with Israel? And it’s under the regime of orange man bad?
  
  But don’t worry liberal progressives. Uncle Joe will be in the White House soon and it will be business as usual. Those defence contractors need war and Joe will give it to them.
  
  Pres Trump has been the first president for ages not to start any new wars. That’s why he’s opposed by both the Republicans and Democrats who have had a consensus for decades that American involvement in wars overseas for democracy is a good thing. And the lobbyists for the defence contractors will be there to sweeten the deal.
  
  Trump is the first president for ages who is not a fan of endless wars. I think we can all agree with him on this one particular issue. 🙂
  
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  December 11, 2020 10:30am
  - Mike
    
    And amid these great peace deals, there are now more US troops in the middle east than there were in 2016.
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:17pm
Jack5

Britain continues to reap the dividends of diversity:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9038461/amp/Police-charge-32-men-West-Yorkshire-150-child-sex-offences.html
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December 11, 2020 8:01am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Grief..
  
  I thought they had caught the men working the grooming gang in that region.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang
  
  This is obviously another one (or arm of it).
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:26am
- Scott
  
  Thanks for mentioning that Jack 5. I love the headline – “Police charged 32 men West Yorkshire”. Just 32 random lads from West Yorkshire. Nothing else to see here. Nothing special about them.
  
  But maybe there is just one defining characteristic? The daily mail report doesn’t actually make this point directly but they do helpfully print out the names of those charged –
  
  Asif Ali
  Amer Ali Hussain
  Sarfraz Miraf
  
  Those are the first three of the 32 men charged. Anyone see anything special about who these people might be? Anything common in their backgrounds?
  Or should we shut our eyes and close our mouths. Move on, nothing to see here??
  
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  December 11, 2020 10:23am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    We can talk about it now, but in the very near future calling it for what it is (obviously just a “cultural misunderstanding” or several coincidental “sexual emergencies”) will be an illegal hate crime.
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:31pm
  - giltee
    
    Just the same as the Huddersfield criminals. Correct me if I’m wrong but…The policy due to a previous claim and investigation of institutionalised racism against someone coloured they were apprehensive to act for fear of being called racist. This is what we get by accepting leftist do-goodest PC nonsense.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:00pm
Maggie Pie

Wonder if Ricardo borrowed Trev’s handbook on the definition of ‘rape’ ?

https://twitter.com/pulpyfictorious/status/1336824232324554755
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December 11, 2020 8:04am
- cmm
  
  Previous Greenie: A smack is as bad as hitting a kid with a 2×4.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:09am
- JibberJabber
  
  I love this but, looking at some of the comments the problem with social media is that a lot of people can no longer recognise finely crafted satire because it is just too close to the truth and even if he didn’t really say it, you know he wants to.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:09am
  - James Stephenson
    
    Poe’s Law: “Without a clear indicator of the author’s intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied.”
    
    The fact that satirising SJWs now falls foul of this adage, says everything you need to know about their ideology.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:02am
- cmm
  
  Are these women raping me with their skimpy dress?
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/groping-sexism-and-discrimination-female-djs-are-fighting-back-against-harassment/GDJSEKCAU3QHHODNQ5RSSRU6RY/
  
  Seriously ladies, if you go clubbing in your jammies, then don’t be surprised if you get a bit of “feedback”.
  
  Sure, people shouldn’t be grabby, but they are so don’t bitch when you seem to be going out of your way to make yourself a victim.
  
  You should be able to leave your car with the keys in overnight in the CBD but you don’t do you? If your car gets stolen then what’s the cop going to say?
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:17am
  - NoCash
    
    Exactly… similarly when women wearing a low cut tank top braless walking down the street, don’t complain why men don’t focus on the face…
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:30am
    - Batman
      
      Great so men are knuckle draggers who can’t keep themselves to themselves?
      
      Classic victim blaming. How about people acknowledge others being pieces of crap?
      
      Nobody is asking for it.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:15am
      - mark15
        
        Nothing wrong with window shopping BM is there?
        And ‘ogling’ or ‘leering’,which is perfectly harmless,is different to ‘men not keeping themselves to themselves’
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:27am
      - Batman
        
        Depends whether one is looking politely from a distance, or making a gesture or comment which is uninvited.
        
        Staring is rude, as everyone should have been told by their parents! Haha
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:44am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Asking for it, were they?
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:39am
    - cmm
      
      If you leave your keys in your car are you asking for it?
      
      People should be able to leave their wallet and cell phone on a park bench for a few hours without it being nicked. If thy do that are they asking for it?
      
      So, yes, going clubbing in your pajamas is asking for it.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:00am
      - Batman
        
        cmm this view is what grants creepers and rapists the environment to assault innocent victims.
        
        You are effectively condoning the assaults and rapes by saying they asked for it.
        
        Another example of Courtenay’s point from yesterday about the world moving forward to becoming a better place when views like yours kick the bucket.
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:17am
      - IC5000
        
        > So, yes, going clubbing in your pajamas is asking for it
        
        Just when I thought nothing could bring down KB comments section any lower than Proper Ghandi’s neo nazi ravings we have a new contender for lord of the sewer.
        
        I have a couple of nieces in NZ of clubbing age and your behaviour disgusts me. I hope you are dealt with accordingly if you try anything dodgy around any women.
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:16pm
    - Doctor Sigmund Freud
      
      Yes, they were asking for it. They LOVE the attention.
      
      Yesterday I banked in cash $2000 on behalf of a society. I didn’t display it – I took it discretely. After all, if it was stolen off me there would be consequences.
      
      On the other hand, I could have waved it about, had it stolen, gone to the newspapers and loved the attention…
      
      16 12
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      December 11, 2020 9:06am
      - civil serpent
        
        Really? Comparing women with wallets? Dollars with someone’s daughter?
        
        11 6
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        December 11, 2020 9:24am
      - peterwn
        
        A tool box is a good container for carrying cash for banking.
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:01am
      - ISeeRed
        
        civil serpent, men are just wallets to many women.
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:26pm
  - Ehlana
    
    cmm, how about if you can’t behave in public, don’t go out in it!
    
    You are not responsible for how someone else dresses, or whether they leave their keys in their car. You are responsible for how you respond to it – what you say and do reflects you, not them.
    
    If you can’t control yourself, stay home.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:45am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sure, people shouldn’t be grabby, but they are so …
    
    But that’s the key point.
    Why should I, my daughters, my nieces, my female mates, etc.. put up with sleazy blokes invading our personal space just because we all know that some men behave this way?
    
    The fact is, most men don’t maul and rub their bits over females just because they can/feel like it.
    
    Sleazebags need to keep their gropey hands to themselves and really should seek treatment for their unwelcome displays of frotteurism.
    
    26 0
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    December 11, 2020 10:03am
    - lofty
      
      frotteurism…what a magnificent word, I learn something new everyday = grubby bastard.
      
      Thanks Maggy.
      
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      December 11, 2020 12:11pm
      - calendar girl
        
        A new word for me too, Maggy.
        
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        December 11, 2020 3:05pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    I read this and lost interest …..
    “Trigger warning: This article contains language that may offend some people and references to sexual assault.” FFS
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:31pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    If you leave your keys in your car and somebody steals the car, and gets caught, they’re done for theft.
    
    If you go out in a short skirt and somebody gropes you, and gets caught, they’re done for assault/sexual assault etc.
    
    It’s the scumbag that makes the choice to behave badly. That’s why “groping” has a legal consequence: assault/sexual assault depending on where you were groped, and how strong the prosecution’s case is.
    
    There’s no legal consequence for wearing skimpy clothes* for a reason.
    
    (*in modern western democracies)
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:57pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I believe he only winks at men so its probably ok
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:20am
  - pdm
    
    How times change.
    
    When I was a teenager some 60 years ago to wink at a girl was to say – if I was close enough I would kiss you.
    
    11 5
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    December 11, 2020 8:50am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Wolf whistle today and see what happens
      
      11 2
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      December 11, 2020 10:13am
      - Biscuit
        
        It’s all context, Steve.
        
        I wolf-whistle at my partner each time I see her exiting the shower…
        
        40 years together next year and the only ‘fights’ have to do over who is to blame for (disgracefully) emptying the pantry of our favourite biscuits!
        
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        December 11, 2020 11:05am
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/MoniquePoirier_/status/1337109882873376768

Mallard is just but one reason people look upon Politicians as lower than dog sheet on your doorstep.
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December 11, 2020 8:05am
krazykiwi

230 masked people on flight to Akl, now pawing at their compliance muzzles to get them of for coffee, then fitting n fiddling with them. The chap next to me is removing and refitting his mask for each sip of coffee. Such a farce.
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December 11, 2020 8:07am
- cmm
  
  Bugger that. I’d rather walk.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:09am
- Frank the tank
  
  But, but, but safety first in little ol’ Aotearoa.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:38am
artemisia

Shelly Bay court action by Mau Whenua appears to be on the skids as the big funding offer is withdrawn. Though Dr Love suggests it might just mean delay.

What was that about justice delayed?

Would not be surprised if the big donor has decided the case is unlikely to succeed even with a huge amount of money tipped in.
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December 11, 2020 8:08am
- Paulus
  
  Is this the Wellington 10ths Trust Dr Love who has had a problem with the Judiciary, but got off due to age and ill health.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No
    
    8 4
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    December 11, 2020 8:39am
  - RalphT
    
    No, he died in 2018. I think this might be his son; a relative in any case.
    
    10 1
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    December 11, 2020 8:43am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No.. that was her father.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/108026719/wellington-mori-leader-sir-ngatata-love-dies
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:49am
Maggy Wassilieff

Paul Moon on hate speech

Make no mistake, there is something deeply sinister in the plans to criminalise speech according to a definition that no jurist can even define with sufficient precision.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/123659211/silencing-disharmonious-speech-will-not-be-golden
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December 11, 2020 8:10am
- emmess
  
  Youtube about to ban questioning of the US 2020 election, and only that election.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4UH4rplHNQ
  
  How long before Kiwiblog follows?
  
  Never forget this happened in Georgia
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCenojrUwVM&t=81s
  
  I recommend everyone gets on Rumble ASAP
  https://rumble.com/
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:34am
- Swifty
  
  Good on Paul Moon.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:53am
Tony Stuart

Oh dear; Trevor Mallard is not only arguably the worst Speaker in my memory, but his hiding behind a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) is blatantly hypocritical as well:

Parliament’s speaker is being slammed by the National Party over an alleged lack of transparency.

Trevor Mallard won’t divulge how much his legal fees cost taxpayers after wrongly calling a staff member a rapist.

But just last year, Mallard claimed non-disclosure agreements shouldn’t be used when taxpayer funds are involved.

Shadow leader of the house Chris Bishop told Heather du Plessis-Allan Mallard’s a hypocrite.

“Taxpayers are entitled to know how much money firstly was spent on the case, but also secondly, if there was a settlement, how much was the settlement for? Because it could be quite substantial.”

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/chris-bishop-trevor-mallard-criticised-for-avoiding-questions-about-taxypayer-funding/

This is well worth taking a few moments out of your Friday morning to have a listen to. Mallard is becoming increasingly a stain on Jacinda Ardern’s government, and on the entire Parliament. #MallardMustGo
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December 11, 2020 8:15am
- cmm
  
  Sure, just like all of them, Mallard is arrogant, useless and a twat.
  
  But does that hurt PriNZess? No.
  Adversities like these bring in the sisterhood for her support.
  
  Awww poor Cindy she’s trying so hard even though she’s surrounded by idiots.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:22am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    At the moment cmm, the silence of the lefties springing to Mallard’s defence is absolutely deafening.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:00am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And the silence of the left when Mallard attacked an innocent public servant speaks volumes.
      
      30 0
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      December 11, 2020 9:11am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Maggy, Maggy, Maggy, really you should know by now !
        
        It’s DIFFERENT when they do it.
        
        Move along now, nothing to see here…
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:28pm
    - Paulus
      
      Because it never happened – the media will tell you !
      
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      December 11, 2020 2:36pm
- Paulus
  
  Of course he cannot go – he is Labour, so no wrong !
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:24am
- alex Masterley
  
  Can’t agree more Tony.
  Mallard is between the rock and the hard place. Almost every settlement agreement drafted has non-disclosure clauses so to consent to one being included in the agreement shows him up as the arch hypocrite.
  If the details are released Mallard will be in breach of the agreement and liable to the complainant for that breach.
  Popcorn time!
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:25am
  - peterwn
    
    The complainant probably could not care less if the agreement was breached. It is whoever has to fork out for settlements who want confidentiality so precedents are not set.
    
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    December 11, 2020 10:06am
- Bobba Fret
  
  On HDPA on ZB when she was talking to Chris Bishop, I believe she said the payment to the person accused may be around $400k as that was the amount Trevor was being sued for? Some one on here yesterday mentioned over $1m.
  As its public money I think we have the right to know. I hope they don’t forget about this. Bishop said they have put written questions to Mallard regarding this.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:25am
  - Ehlana
    
    Why should the taxpayer pay anything for a case involving an MP defaming someone? Wouldn’t that be rather like a company paying the speeding fines for an employee?
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:31pm
- niggly
  
  Mallard’s toxic stench will start sticking to the Labour Party as more revelations of hypocrisy come out.
  
  How much will the Labour Party tolerate having a bully damaging the Party’s reputation … over the next three years?
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:26am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Labour will be very exposed if Mallard is dumped as Speaker.
    
    I don’t think there’s anyone else on their team who can shield the PM and her incompetent cronies as well as Mallard does.
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:54am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Deputy Speaker Adrian Rurawhe certainly wouldn’t be able to run interference in the way Mallard does. For a start, he’s a pretty straight-up, honest bloke, not a 33-year political scrapper/attack dog like Mallard.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:03am
      - sooty
        
        Ha HHHAAA, jacin-DUH, have to run her own interference and defelction! Like that’ll work!
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:22am
      - niggly
        
        Yes, Adrian Rurawhe would bring a sense of decorum into the Chamber and is well respected within Labour (and I sense within the Opposition too, as no-one has anything bad to say about him)!
        
        There are other bonuses for Labour too (the good ol’ diversity angle and kudos from Maoridom), but Mr Rurawhe would actually get there on merit.
        
        Over to Labour then, whether they want 3 years of “tension” (in the debating chamber) under Mr Mallard or 3 years of sincere and orderly authority under Mr Rurawhe!
        
        I guess if Mallard is retained as Speaker, put alongside previous Labour shenanigans (such as allegations of sexual assaults in the Office of PM), that it will be perceived as more evidence of Labour having a toxic culture within, that the PM will have to keep defending, which will be interesting as Mallard is in plain view and is exposed … meaning that Labour is exposed too.
        
        After all, how can someone who has stuffed up big time retain their job? Mallard will remain a target for the next 3 years but Labour will be “collateral damage” … oh dear!
        
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        December 11, 2020 11:14am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Curran must go – finally gone.
  David Clark must go – finally demoted.
  Twyford must go – promoted then demoted.
  Kelvin Davis must go – oh, he’s ok as he doesn’t do anything, so with the Labour bar set so low, he is actually a high performer! Cindy never takes action until absolutely forced to.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:30am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I noticed the other day in Question Time, Davis was questioned in Maori by Willow-Jean Prime, and gave his answers in Maori. I guess that’s one way of avoiding any scrutiny.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:04am
    - Couchpotatoe
      
      Did Prime translate the question? Or avoiding scrutiny?
      
      12 1
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      December 11, 2020 9:33am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Hansard provides a translation..
        Q5 – Maori Education:
        
        In summary:
        *Funding for 10,000 teachers and support staff/year to bring Te Reo into the classroom.
        
        *Funding to run for 4 years …..(40,000 will receive training)
        
        *$232 million has been granted to kōhanga reo in the last two years.
        
        https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansD_20201208_20201208
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:11am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      And to add to that, Davis was questioned in ENGLISH by the female co-leader of the Maori party and gave his answers in Maori so nobody else could understand them.
      
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      December 11, 2020 11:33am
      - Spam
        
        You really think Davis answering in english would have solved that problem?
        
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        December 11, 2020 1:57pm
- Frank the tank
  
  All animals are equal but some are more equal than others
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:38am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Are some ducks more equal than other ducks? Asking for a friend…
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:04am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Mandarins rule the Pond, Mallards are but minions.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:08am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I must admit my Mother Mallard and her 11 ducklings have been rather cosseted by hubby and me for the last few months.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:16am
- Swifty
  
  And through their inaction the Labour leadership demonstrate once again that they put their political interests above those of New Zealanders.
  
  They demonstrate they have no issue whatsoever taking money from the pockets of New Zealanders to pay to make Trevor’s self-inflicted problems go away – while at the same time clearly sending the message that it’s none of our bloody business what has gone on and that we should just shut up and get back to work.
  
  “Open and transparent” wasn’t just a mistake, a mis-speak – it was just a meme they planted; a deliberate deception, given that they have continually failed to honour it.
  
  Labour don’t give a fuck about Kiwis and our interests. And when Labour interests and Kiwi’s interests clash – we all know the Labour leadership will do whatever is right.
  
  For Labour.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:49am
  - Swifty
    
    Honestly, this is just so wrong.
    
    Bully Mallard opens his gob and defames and maligns a parliamentary staffer, accusing him of deeds he did not do (no-one forced him to say it, no-one held a gun to his head, he wasn’t required to say it as part of his job, he said it freely, voluntarily and of his own volition) but it’s us who has to pay while Mallard skips away scot-free – and what’s worse, Mallard and the Labour Party leadership (I have no doubt whatsoever they had their legal team poring over it) deliberately sign up to a non-disclosure agreement preventing New Zealanders from knowing anything about the grubby little deal.
    
    For goodness sake, why should NZers have to pay for Trevor’s personal problems to go away? We had nothing to do with this. Nothing. Why isn’t Trevor paying for this? Or at least making a contribution given he’s brought this all on himself?
    
    This is bordering on criminal if you ask me. They are taking NZers money to pay off the bloke because they can. Not because it is the right thing to do, but purely because they’re in a position to.
    
    And for a great fat cherry on top, when we ask about what has gone on they tell us to piss off, they’re not going to tell us anything. We have no right to know.
    
    Fuck you Labour.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:18am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Let’s not forget that this is not Trevor Mallard’s first brush with a defamation action either. Formewr public servant Erin Leigh, callously maligned by Mallard in Parliament, went to the Supreme Court to fight for the right to sue Mallard for defamation, and won.
      
      Although she subsequently dropped the defamation case (DPF’s post below explains why), the fact that she won the right to sue Mallard is significant, and was a victory for Ms Leigh and her legal team.
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/09/erin_leigh_qa.html
      
      Given that the incident resulted from comments made when Mallard was a Minister in the Helen Clark Labour Government, what’s the bet the long-suffering taxpayer picked up Mallard’s legal bills for this case as well.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:32am
    - Paulus
      
      Was Trevor pissed ? – isn’t that the usual answer to a Judge.
      Or a good up and coming sportsman.
      
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      December 11, 2020 2:41pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  I’m sure this will have been commented on already but Mallard’s comment at he end of David Seymour’s criticsm of him… “The Member’s time has expired… in more ways than one” can only be interpreted as a death threat and should have led to Mallard’s immediate dismissal. It is unbelievable that he has got away with it.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:08am
  - Swifty
    
    That was so revealing if you ask me.
    
    Trevor’s mask slipped then and we got to see the real man.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:20am
    - GazzaW
      
      Whenever I see Mallard I’m reminded of the day when it was revealed that he flogs off the free concert tickets on Trade Me that he gets sent by promoters as a part of his job as an MP. Does he give them to needy local citizens or to charities? No way – straight on to Trade Me for a bit of extra tax-free income. That’s the mark of the man.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:42am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Shouldn’t the proceeds from tickets received as an MP be paid to the Public Account? They are outside his remuneration package.
        Petty fraud from a duck?
        
        9 1
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        December 11, 2020 11:34am
    - Paulus
      
      Swifty
      Man ???????????????
      
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      December 11, 2020 2:42pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Rather than a “death threat”, I saw that as Mallard throwing down the gauntlet to Seymour, and declaring “war” on him in the House. By “war”, I mean Mallard singling Seymour out for special treatment, for pedantic comments about his grammar, and for snide remarks such as those Mallard delivers to Nick Smith, Gerry Brownlee and Simon Bridges on a regular basis.
    
    Mallard can barely hide his contempt towards the three National MP’s mentioned above, and I suggest Mallard was suggesting he would add David Seymour to his “shit list”. That in itself totally demeans the role of Speaker.
    
    PS: For those who have forgotten how nasty Mallard was, here’s an excerpt from Trev’s Greatest Hits:
    
    https://youtu.be/3gMs_567l7Y
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:38am
    - Swifty
      
      That’s how I saw it KS – a declaration of war for having the temerity to challenge him.
      
      What a bully.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:58am
- burt
  
  But it’s different when Labour do it.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:09am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Especially when it’s a Labour Speaker setting the rules of engagement.
    
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    December 11, 2020 1:15pm
- Paulus
  
  Come on now – its the end of the Parliamentary year and Christmas, where we are all going to be nice to each other so let Trevor disappear for 3 months whilst we all forget about his disgraceful behaviour which would have cost anybody else their job – BUT Trevor is a Labour MP – remember the Party we all voted for – any other party all hell would have been let loose, but the $50 million plus media will swamp it over Christmas and the next 3 months – IT DID NOT HAPPEN.
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:18pm
Maggie Pie

When will Biden concede? KABOOM!!

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1337097024215404551
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December 11, 2020 8:15am
- JibberJabber
  
  What happens if Joe gets ~~Arkancided~~ pops his clogs before January?
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:06am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, there is a clip of Joe publicly announcing a certain retired military person of colour to a government post. The biggest problem is Joe actually forgot the guy’s name and mumbled like he does. A masked Harris sits in the far background and it is difficult to read her expressions but I can imagine her thinking ‘FFS Joe, this can’t continue’.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:24am
  - Batman
    
    Funny that, I saw that very clip.
    
    He mispronounces the surname by speaking it phonetically. Rather than how it should be pronounced.
    
    There was no mumble and he carried on talking.
    
    “You know, Xavier Becerra… excuse me,’ Biden said, before carrying on and later correctly pronouncing Becerra’s name as well as correctly referring to the HHS.”
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden-mispronounces-hhs-secretary-nominee-xavier-becerra-s-name/ar-BB1bLhGm?ocid=SautMedia
    
    Of course, the childish morons of the GOP tried to make it a thing and apparently they suckered you too.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:51am
    - Inandout
      
      Oh Bat, go and talk to rest home workers about mental decline.
      
      12 3
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      December 11, 2020 10:19am
Simon

It’s ok to burn the Chinese flag.
17 1
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December 11, 2020 8:15am
- NoCash
  
  ^^^ This message is authorised by Russel “Give Me My Flag Back” Norman.
  ;-p
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:24am
  - Simon
    
    Yeah where have all the free Tibet hippy Greens gone?
    
    Though nothing triggers the CCP like the Tawian flag.
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:40am
JibberJabber

Roll up, roll up, get your Vaccination here,

https://twitter.com/davidcoverdale/status/1336768458504073216
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December 11, 2020 8:15am
- Jade Warrior
  
  If I see one more close-up of a syringe going into an arm on any of the nightly news bulletins, I’ll scream! ?
  
  8 0
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  December 11, 2020 9:09am
  - JibberJabber
    
    You’re safe with this link ?
    
    4 0
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    December 11, 2020 9:47am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hubby can’t handle seeing folks having injections and for 50+ years refused to have anything to do with hypodermic needles (no Tetanus shots, no BCG vaccination, no visits to the dentist….)
    
    Now, he has to have 6-weekly injections into his eyeballs…
    I can’t bear to watch…(or be in the same room).
    
    Funny old world.
    
    11 0
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    December 11, 2020 10:21am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Hope it helps, those injections seem to work extra well in a subset of the population with the disease (not yet worked out why). Unfortunate side effect of knowing so much about drugs, people talk about a regimen, and I know what’s wrong with them…
      
      1 0
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      December 11, 2020 3:06pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yeah txs..
        
        Things are fairly stable at present, but he’s a bit of a fatalist drama queen and can’t quite get his head around the fact that MD is Not the end of the world.
        
        (I’ve been told I should be more sympathetic….)
        
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        December 11, 2020 4:44pm
BAM

Think tank editor runs far-right blog

In posts on his personal blog, New Zealand Initiative chief editor Nathan Smith attacks Muslims and Jews and espouses incel ideology, Marc Daalder reports

The chief editor of the prominent New Zealand Initiative think tank runs a far-right blog on the side, where he bashes Muslims, says Jews invite anti-Semitism on themselves and falsely claims that the death toll from the Covid-19 pandemic has been artificially inflated.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/think-tank-editor-runs-far-right-blog
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December 11, 2020 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Oh dear.
  
  14 4
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  December 11, 2020 8:50am
- Inandout
  
  BAM, BigTech won’t block him as he hasn’t mentioned any Dems cheating.
  https://video.foxnews.com/v/6215428621001#sp=show-clips
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Nathan Smith resigned at lunchtime.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/432662/new-zealand-initiative-to-investigate-content-after-staffer-s-resignation-over-extreme-views
  
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  December 11, 2020 5:06pm
Nukuleka

Remember Behrouz Boochani, the Manus island Iranian detainee who came into NZ on a one month visa and vowed he had no intention of overstaying his visa or breaking his visa conditions? He lied, of course. On the day he was granted refugee status by the government Mr Boochani was appointed as an Adjunct Research Fellow by the University of Canterbury. Coincidentally, he has now been awarded the 2021 Ursula Bethell Residency, an award administered by the University of Canterbury’s English Department, whose aim is to ‘foster New Zealand writing’. As Mr Boochani is intending to use this award to write a short story collection in a Kurdish dialect, I’m not quite sure how this is going to foster New Zealand writing! Perhaps his award is a twist on the old adage ‘jobs for the boys’. The University makes much of the fact that Boochani is an award- winning author (in Kurdish). A quick flick through the awards reveal that they have all been made by left wing organisations ( and I include the Victoria Premier in this!) that wanted to take a cheap pot shot at the Australian Liberal government that detained Boochani on Manus Island in the first place. The University of Canterbury is continuing in the same trajectory.
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December 11, 2020 8:21am
- Flossie
  
  Who ever believed for one second he was going to leave NZ after a month!! Citizenship coming in due course, then emigration to Oz…thus jeopardizing our special border relationship with them.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:37am
  - Jack5
    
    Maybe the Aussies will slam the back door shut before Boochani reaches it.
    
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    December 11, 2020 10:24am
- Frank the tank
  
  It’s all the Blairite has got. Cheap pot shots on the side
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well, at least he’s not seeking a seat in Parliament.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:01am
  - Flossie
    
    Yet
    
    22 0
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    December 11, 2020 9:06am
    - sooty
      
      If he upset the applecart and went green, he would hose in!
      
      9 1
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      December 11, 2020 10:33am
  - Paulus
    
    Boochani is not seeking a Parliamentary seat YET.
    Does he not need to be a Citizen first, but am not sure ?
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:46pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Heh, it’s just tough shit for any genuine refugee sitting in a real camp for years trying to go thru the system legally.
  #celebrityrefugee
  On the upside, he’s not costing us the taxpayers anything anymore?
  
  15 1
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  December 11, 2020 9:01am
  - Ehlana
    
    JibberJabber, if he is still an Adjunct Research Fellow at the University of Canterbury, he’s still costing you money.
    
    8 0
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    December 11, 2020 12:35pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      Bugger! ?…
      
      4 0
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      December 11, 2020 1:49pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Cripes English become Kurdish. Have they both got common origins via Sanskrit?
  
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  December 11, 2020 11:37am
Aunty

The Covid situation in America is looking very grim. They are now loosing a Masterton every 9 days.

If the vaccines had not of been found by the scientists, the death toll in the US would have been well in excess of 1 million by this time next year – largely because ratlickers and Covnuts just won’t front to their responsibilities and biological reality.
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December 11, 2020 8:22am
- Critical Thinker
  
  …. Meanwhile back in the real world ??
  
  Important study shows similar mortality in Sweden and Norway despite different responses, but Sweden’s result cost a lot less.
  
  Despite an order of magnitude difference in case-fatality rates in Sweden (higher) compared to Norway, the two countries had very similar overall mortality profiles.
  
  There was a big difference though in national costs. Norway’s more restrictive policies resulting in public spending 2.6-fold more than Sweden (Norway: 4,176 Euros per person & Sweden 1,580 per person) during the epidemic.
  
  It also reveals that the apparent spike in mortality in Sweden which has so excited the gloomsters was most likely due to ‘displaced mortality’ from low mortality in earlier seasons. Norway had no overall mortality spike.
  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.11.20229708v1.full.pdf
  
  “Not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.
  
  These data analyses suggest that in contrast to most people’s assumptions, the number of deaths by COVID-19 is not alarming. In fact, it has relatively no effect on deaths in the United States.
  
  The CDC classified all deaths that are related to COVID-19 simply as COVID-19 deaths. Even patients dying from other underlying diseases but are infected with COVID-19 count as COVID-19 deaths. This is likely the main explanation as to why COVID-19 deaths drastically increased while deaths by all other diseases experienced a significant decrease.
  
  All of this points to no evidence that COVID-19 created any excess deaths. Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers.”
  https://web.archive.org/web/20201126223119/https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:09am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Given you are a critical thinker, presumably you are aware that all the social distancing has generally reduced infections. Basically no flu this year. Also much greater hygiene generally.
    
    I guess the fact that the US is approaching 300,000 dead from covid is no big deal either.
    
    7 20
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    December 11, 2020 9:52am
    - Frank the tank
      
      That is horseshit Wayne – i’ve personally had 3 bouts of the flu (and of course 3 Wuflu tests) and this was after the ineffective flu jab. It’s been rife through the schools and South Auckland this year. Evidence = Look at all the negative WuFlu tests we have had as a country.
      
      Of course if you are a Little Aotearoa cultist that doesn’t go out of your house, wraps themselves in cotton wool, disinfects everything that moves and otherwise wears a mask and full PPE everywhere and anywhere you probably didn’t get sick this year.
      
      Unfortunately in planet real world that type of behavior means nothing gets done.
      
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      December 11, 2020 10:31am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I happen to know one of the major importers of the flu vaccine into New Zealand. He says demand has been much lower than in previous years and he has a large amount of unused stock. My GP says they have had way fewer cases of flu coming through this year.
        
        If you have has three lots of flu in the last few months, I think you have been very unlucky.
        
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        December 11, 2020 1:22pm
      - Joely Doe
        
        3 bouts of ‘flu’ this year?!
        Nope.
        3 common colds, not influenza.
        Maybe, just maybe, one influenza got you this year – given that there has been a 99.8 percent reduction in flu cases, due in part to social distancing and increased hygiene measures.
        
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        December 11, 2020 5:45pm
      - SGA
        
        i’ve personally had 3 bouts of the flu … and this was after the ineffective flu jab
        
        My guess is that you haven’t had three separate strains of influenza this year (catching one typically gives you immunty from catching that strain again). It is more likely that you’ve had common garden-variety colds that you are calling the “flu” (as some people mistakenly confuse the terms).
        
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        December 11, 2020 8:24pm
  - Aunty
    
    I can play that silly game too.
    
    Meanwhile back in the real world……….
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGrGRyZXZw8
    
    I don’t think DW News has any particular axe to grind, do you? They are impartial, balanced and thorough, correct?
    
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    December 11, 2020 1:52pm
  - Stu2
    
    “Important study shows similar mortality in Sweden and Norway despite different responses, but Sweden’s result cost a lot less”
    
    Not much of a study – Sweden 726 deaths/million Norway 70 deaths/million
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:43pm
    - SGA
      
      @Stu2
      You are correct, there is about a 10 fold difference in mortality rates between these two countries. That’s why “Critical Thinker” hasn’t been back to correct you.
      
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      December 11, 2020 8:26pm
      - Critical Thinker
        
        I was pointing out the now undeniable fact that Sweden and the USA overall deaths haven’t actually increased this year compared to previous years. Which shows the farcical nature of this bad flu scamdemic, that has been blown out of all proportion ?
        
        We all know very well that millions will be dying from the economic carnage from these ongoing lockdowns. Especially the worlds poor ?
        
        The World Health Organisation – “Look what’s happened to smallholder farmers all over the world. Look what’s happening to poverty levels. It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. We may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition.
        
        In the United States, lockdowns have been tied to increased thoughts of suicide from children, a surge in drug overdoses, an uptick in domestic violence, and a study conducted in May concluded that stress and anxiety from lockdowns could destroy seven times the years of life that lockdowns potentially save.”
        https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/who-official-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdowns-as-primary-virus-control-method/ar-BB19TBUo
        
        Future generations will not look kindly at our generations ideocracy hysteria ?
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:47pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Universal use of ivermectin would likely save 70-80% of those deaths. It’s stunning efficacy is finally starting to get traction in media and medical industry, but it’s been slow because big Pharma and hospitals don’t stand to make money out of it.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:15am
  - Batman
    
    The lefty conspiracy that the hospitals are in it for the profit is kind of hilarious in that it’s a great argument for a Bernie style reform of the US health system.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:21am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Compare and contrast the efficacy of Ivermectin https://ivmmeta.com/ that has had positive results in testing since May, yet is still largely unused, or the less effective (but still beneficial in early stages) hydroxychloroquine that was maliciously undermined by faked data in a now-retracted major journal article several months back – (Qui Bono?). with super expensive Remdisivir, which is almost ineffectual in trials, yet has been promoted and pushed like crazy. Big Pharma has huge malign influence on medical establishment and development of widespread cheap effective covid treatment protocols.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:41am
      - Batman
        
        There’s no reasoning with truthers.
        
        You guys are the new anti-vax Mums.
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:25am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Ivermectin has been adopted and tested far more extensively outside of USA than within. Doesn’t that seem suspicious to you? Lobbiests and US pharma profit motive seemingly doing harm. Here’s testimony presented to US Senate on benefits of Ivermectin a few days back. Doctor giving it was almost in tears with his frustration at institutional stonewalling of this treatment and what he sees as an enormous number of needless deaths that are continuing to occur.
        https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Testimony-Kory-2020-12-08.pdf
        
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        December 11, 2020 12:00pm
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  [Mod: mocking mass death is not acceptable. Mocking Masterton is a lesser offence ?]
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:32am
  - Doctor Sigmund Freud
    
    Dear Mod I was mocking the comparison of an alleged daily death rate in USA with the size of a town in New Zealand.
    
    The comparison was intended to be alarming. I was calling bullshit on the validity of that comparison.
    
    Here’s another ridiculous comparison: domestic animals (dogs and cats) consume enough food to give breakfast to all the hungry children in Zimbabwe.
    
    If you struggle with this perhaps moderation is not your forte.
    
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    December 11, 2020 10:20am
    - Doctor Sigmund Freud
      
      Dear Mod.
      
      I unconditionally apologise for the last sentence and withdraw it.
      
      3 2
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      December 11, 2020 11:06am
      - SGA
        
        You aren’t a reincarnation of an alpine parrot, by any chance? Maybe not, I suppose.
        
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        December 11, 2020 8:33pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  How many are actually dying from the disease?
  
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  December 11, 2020 11:38am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One good thing about Covid – it has eliminaded influenza. Nobody dies from the flu anymore //
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:00pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Beat that Jaspinda
    
    3 1
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    December 11, 2020 2:01pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Who is this ‘Jaspinda’ you keep referring to? What does the word, “Jaspinda” mean?
      
      1 1
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      December 11, 2020 9:04pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It’s a Jacinda that spins bullshit
        
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        December 12, 2020 8:12am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Okay. Thanks Steve. I’ll let you have that one.
        
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        December 12, 2020 9:52am
Benedict Yu

So someone gets outraged by name of a dress. Then journalists pick it up.

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-national/embarrassing-mistake-trelise-cooper-apology-over-dress-name

This behaviour will have chilling effect on people. Dress maker should stand up to these people and say ‘no I’m not changing the name of the dress, now STFU.’
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December 11, 2020 8:28am
- mandk
  
  Quite right, BY.
  
  The best way to combat woke bullies is not to feed by reacting to them.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:36am
- Frank the tank
  
  Welcome to the cult of little Aotearoa. Identity politics is commandment number
  3 after “Trust the Science (sic)” and “Aren’t we the best country in the world at absoludely Everythink”
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:43am
- Nukuleka
  
  Absolutely, Benedict. I doubt that half a dozen people in NZ had ever heard of this native American ‘massacre’ and the name of the dress clearly had nothing to do with this event. This is all about the self-righteous virtue- signaling Joanna Kidman, of course, who wants to promote her own profile at the expense of Trelise Cooper. Cooper should have told her to go jump- and most NZers would have applauded her. Never apologise!
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The Trail of Tears is, in fact, a very well-known ethnic cleansing of Native Americans from their homes in southeast states, and forced marches to the midwest, causing the deaths of at least 10,000.
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:14am
    - Doctor Sigmund Freud
      
      So what? Ain’t my problem.
      
      11 2
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      December 11, 2020 9:33am
    - Sacha
      
      The Trail of Tears
      The Trail of Tiers
      
      Spot the difference? Most of us have the ability to distinguish that the difference in spelling indicates a different meaning, even if they sound the same.
      Poor, dim, Joanna.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:49am
      - Frank the tank
        
        Off the the gulag with you!!!! Logical thinking is not permitted in Little Aotearoa.
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:35am
      - Pharmachick
        
        @Frank:
        Aotearoa iti. Off with your head.
        
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        December 11, 2020 4:29pm
    - David George
      
      Very well known?
      What basis do you have for this assertion.
      I suspect very few Kiwis have ever heard of it but I’ll leave it up to you to provide the justification.
      All of this stuff, these lightweight wokelets desperately trying to find something to be offended about is getting ridiculous. They’ll be going for Eskimo Pies next thing.
      
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      December 11, 2020 12:34pm
    - Nukuleka
      
      I stand by my assertion that very few people in NZ had ever heard of it- apart from the very knowledgeable Joanna Kidman and your good self, of course.
      
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      December 11, 2020 12:43pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Keep the dress name. Let the bullies enjoy their own tears.
  
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  December 11, 2020 11:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Kidman – full of her own importance and nothing more
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:03pm
iMP

Eighteen – that’s E-I-G-H-T-T-E-E-N – US States have filed suit in Supreme Court negating the electoral processes in their States. This is where it will get decided.

a) This is about the Constitution. States allege Dems ‘changed’ the process illegally (Trump was very vocal about this a year before the election); processes are determined by State legislatures, not officials. That is a fairly straight forward legal position that the SC can rule on.

b) What I think will happen, is SC will rule out some Counties or States from the 2020 election and there will be a recalibration for President.

c) I am expecting Trump to win on the legals.

Meanwhile, PEACE breaks out Israel-Morocco. But Trump will not get the Nobel for his 4th historic Arab peace accord, plus opening relations with NK, because he’s not half Black like Obama.

[You can rate this comment for “hate speech” percentages by using this template downloadable direct from the Dept of Prime Minister. Go to “Minister of Thought”. You’re welcome. Tenakoe].
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December 11, 2020 8:31am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  I don’t believe the SC will “award” Trump the election, because they will know that is effectively what they are being asked to do.
  
  As a fundamental, judges in advanced democracies know they can’t just cancel the votes of tens of millions of people. They know that unelected judges do not have a mandate to cancel out the votes of millions, and still say they are in a democracy. Kagan and Sotomeyer may say this directly, though if the court acts unanimously on the legal points they may not feel so inclined.
  
  On the “legals’ the SC judges, probably unanimously, will say it is up to each state to sort out their election laws, provided they give every person the right to vote. That other states don’t have the right to interpose themselves into another state’s business when it does not directly affect them.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:46am
  - Andrei
    
    Dr Mapp several days ago I pointed you to the text of the Texan lawsuit and invited you to read it and comment on it as a legal scholar
    
    From this and previous comments you have made it is quite clear you haven’t read it or even attempted to understand the constitutional proceeses in play here.
    
    The Supreme Court is not being asked to decide the election
    
    If the supreme court decides in favour of the Plaintiffs. The State of Texas et al. then the State legislatures of the Defendant States will be directed that the election results of their States are hopelessly tainted and that they should choose the electors as per the US Constitution. If the legislators are for whatever reason unable to do this then no electors from that State will be seated
    
    If as a result of States being unable to seat electors no candidate acheives the magic 270 electoral college votes then the next President will be decided by the US Congress with each State getting one Congressional Vote – the elector in this case being chosen from among the congressional delegation for that State
    
    This is all articulated in the US Constitution and its amendments
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:00am
    - Batman
      
      Andrei you’re missing the part where the case has no merit and will most likely be summarily thrown out, just like the last one.
      
      Safe harbour day has been and gone, the certifications will go to the EC and then Congress.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:08am
      - Andrei
        
        Batman you don’t know what you are talking about, you are just babbling
        
        I don’t know how this will turn out and I am not pretending I do, I am just stating the facts on the ground.
        
        What we all can forsee. I think is that there are stormy waters ahead
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:14am
      - fernglas
        
        There is a good legal argument that the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction over the election outcome, because election disputes are purely a matter for a state to resolve. Texas would therefore have no standing to intervene in the outcome of another state’s electoral process and so the Supreme Court would have no basis to hear the case. This the point Wayne Mapp is making in the last para. of his post.
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:19am
      - Batman
        
        Andrei I suspect your internet research has led you astray, my Putinesque friend.
        
        1-54 in legal challenges, remember. It must infuriate you Trumpers so much that people like Wayne and I keep being proven right.
        
        This case will be thrown out. No amount of amateur hour legal theorising from the cult followers will change that.
        
        Now, back to your handlers for updated talking points.
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:25am
    - Doctor Sigmund Freud
      
      I learned to ignore Mapp when he became MP for North Shore.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:34am
- bruceavon
  
  The argument about states changing the system illegally has been well covered through the courts in several other cases that were thrown out. Where judges have pointed out that if there was a problem, the time to contest it was months ago before the election, not after the election when you don’t like the result. And when you will disenfranchise millions of voters of their votes. I doubt this case will even get considered by the Supreme Court.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:50am
  - WaynelSexton
    
    It’s the usual Catch-22. Challenge in a timely manner and you have no standing or cause. Challenge when you actually have standing and cause and you’re told it is too late.
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:55am
    - Batman
      
      Ergo, the changes are actually constitutional and there was no harm other than “we lost and we don’t like it”
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:28am
- Brian McDonald
  
  You lost your middle wicket mate. 18 Republican States banding together to change an election result is a defacto attempt to override the democratic vote. It’s an attempted coup by stealth, though very obvious except to the bewildered. Firstly the States are not independent that is why they are trying to argue the case in the SCOTUS, the Governor’s have no control over the democratic vote of other states. A Governor has no elected status to interfere with the voting system in his own state let alone another state. But keep dreaming.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:14am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, the proof that it is up to state legislatures is that in the very beginning, all the electors were chosen by the legislatures.\ with no public involvement at all. Most states decided that the public should have a right in choosing electors by public election – but they don’t have to. And they can take back that right any time and decide to choose electors themselves. There is no right in the Constitution for the public to vote on who is to be president.
  
  If there is still contention over the results, then the legislatures have every right to take the choosing of electors back. That it be remanded to them.
  
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  December 11, 2020 12:36pm
- virtualmark
  
  And twenty three – that’s T-W-E-N-T-Y-T-H-R-E-E – US states and territories have filed amici curiae in the same case, to support the four states charged by Texas. You can see that at https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163379/20201210144443769_Texas%20v.%20Pennsylvania%20-%20Motion%20and%20Br.%20of%20Amici%20DC%20et%20al.pdf
  
  I am expecting the Supreme Court will decline to hear this case and will affirm that each state is responsible for setting and executing its own rules on elections.
  
  Texas should hope so too. Because otherwise I can see a lot of states lining up to invalidate blatant voter suppression like this … https://www.texastribune.org/2020/10/27/texas-voting-elections-mail-in-drop-off/
  
  Maybe it’s Texas’ votes that should be disallowed?
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:37pm
iMP

HUNTER Biden being investigated for tax fraud means… his financials will be scrutinised with a fine tooth comb, and WHO will be exposed again and again therein?

Ticking Daddy Joe time bomb right there.
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December 11, 2020 8:38am
- amospicton
  
  This and Joe’s rapidly declining facilities mean we’re closer by the day to America’s first woman president. A woman of ‘colour’ too. Only a pity she wasn’t elected by the people.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:04am
  - Lance
    
    So the fact that she was running as vice president was kept a secret?
    And the fact the Joe is old was also a secret?
    
    About as genuine as the pricks from the left saying Jenny Shipley wasn’t the first ‘elected’ prime minister of NZ when NZ does vote for prime ministers. Instead just a vile slur by the mean spirited
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:35am
    - amospicton
      
      The difference is that I believe it was the Dems plan all along for Harris to become president. Would she have won if she stood versus Trump? Who knows but it would have been more honest than hiding behind Biden.
      
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      December 11, 2020 10:09am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I find it very sad tat the Dems are using Joe in this manner just to get horizontal Harris in. Joe Biden is a very sick man, and the Dems are swamp dwellers
        
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        December 11, 2020 2:09pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    It’s a feature not a bug. Kamala was selected to lead America by Billionaires (DNC paymasters) in backrooms, knowing that Biden would be quickly pushed aside. Kamala is bought and paid for and exhibits very flexible morality – will do whatever it takes to get ahead (eg shagging geriatric mayor to get her first elected position). Can’t have pesky voters choosing non-compliant leadership can we?
    
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    December 11, 2020 9:46am
    - Batman
      
      A great argument except for the problem that Biden won voters who earn under 50k by about 11% and high earners voted for Trump by a larger percentage margin, including the super wealthy.
      
      The billionaire class overwhelmingly donates to Trump and Co, though less so this year as he was so off the rails.
      
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      December 11, 2020 9:59am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Trumps funding is primarily driven by grass roots donations. Big corporates (eg tech) were the primary donors to the DNC. They call the tune, and sculpt the media landscape to favour DNC. Poor voters for DNC are just the easily influenced idiots – same as poor voting for labour in NZ.
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:13am
      - Inandout
        
        Bat, I hear dead voters tell no tales.
        
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        December 11, 2020 10:24am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Trump funding comes from the merchandise sold. Look at all of the hats and flags at the rallies of hundreds of thousands. I can not buy a Trump/Pence 2020 flag – they stopped shipping overseas
        
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        December 11, 2020 2:13pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Only a pity she wasn’t elected by the people.
    
    She was elected by the People, amos. Her name was right there, alongside Joe’s.
    
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    December 11, 2020 8:55pm
- MCos
  
  I read that Trump has preemptive pardons lined up for his family before he leaves his current job, not to mention other shady characters.
  I wouldn’t have a clue whether Biden jnr has broken any laws, but with his Dad taking over from Trump the precedent may have been set by then for him to get his beleaguered son off the hook.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:29am
  - IC5000
    
    Can he pardon them for crimes they have not yet been indicted for? Wouldn’t it be better to have them indicted now so the pardons can be made before the 20th Jan?
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:23pm
  - Fletch
    
    Pardons for what? Trump hasn’t done anything. While Biden obviously has.
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:40pm
  - Ehlana
    
    And that, MCos, is something office holders often seem to forget – if you do it, the other side will too.
    
    If Trump can pardon his own children (before they have actually been investigated/ arrested/ charged/ tried/ convicted), then Biden can too.
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:45pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think there is a bit of 3D chess going on here, and Trump is good at it
    
    3 3
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    December 11, 2020 2:16pm
    - SGA
      
      He’s slipping then – a couple of years ago it was 4-D and above according to some here.
      
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      December 11, 2020 8:38pm
igm

The party of envy once again leeches off those that are successful and do not vote for them . . .
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300180688/employee-perks-could-be-axed-after-government-tax-change
Must appease and fund unionists and losers somehow!
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December 11, 2020 8:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “No more new Taxes” was a blatant LIE!
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:18pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this was worth sharing with the group.
We tried using a product called ‘Hitman’ on the weeds in the driveway a couple of weeks ago. What absolute crap. After the rain they’ve come back stronger than ever!
Never had that problem with ‘Roundup’. One good application and the next week you can just broom away the dust.
Only downside is, when my partner sprays it, his eyes turn red and he can’t wear jandals because the skin between his toes peels off.

Anyone else have other suggestions ?
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December 11, 2020 8:50am
- RJ
  
  Get a new partner?
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:57am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    But would the new partner’s random opinions be so compelling as to warrant Maggie reporting them?
    
    8 8
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    December 11, 2020 9:53am
    - sooty
      
      Wear gumboots and add in some 245T!
      
      8 1
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      December 11, 2020 10:43am
    - IC5000
      
      His missives are certainly an argument for restricting the right to vote based on an IQ test but that’s not something I would ever countenance.
      
      2 3
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      December 11, 2020 12:21pm
- igm
  
  There is only one way to get rid of this type of crap and that is glyphoste based weed killers. I used anything containing it on our ditches for years with no problems . . . only in latter years when know-all towny lifestylers bought in the area.
  Never had any adverse reactions to glyphosate.
  
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  December 11, 2020 8:58am
- kowtow
  
  Go on twitter and be offended by the name “hitman” as it’s disrespectful to all victims of violence.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:15am
- Matt Long
  
  Use a weed wiper hockey stick instead of spray application with some PPE.
  Or apply diesel, or use a lpg burner which will unfortunately not take out the roots.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:20am
- rangitoto
  
  You can’t beat a 50/50 mixture of 2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid and 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid. Works a treat.
  
  2 0
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  December 11, 2020 1:29pm
  - JibberJabber
    
    Do you get a little Umbrella and a Cherry/ slice of Orange with that?
    
    2 0
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    December 11, 2020 1:52pm
- gorse
  
  Use roundup, safe as houses.
  
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  December 11, 2020 1:36pm
  - MFD
    
    Do not use Roundup. It is ludicrously overpriced.
    Mitre10’s no.8 brand glyphosate works just as well and costs substantially less.
    
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    December 11, 2020 5:24pm
Critical Thinker

Mainstream Media, Big Tech Coverup Collapses with Hunter Biden Investigation ?

Joe “Big Guy” Biden called the story a “Russian plant”.

– Facebook suppressed the story by labeling it “misinformation.”

– Twitter shut down all links to the bombshell New York Post story, and locked the 219 year old New York Post out of its own account.

– Wikipedia, the Internet’s go-to source for common knowledge decided to censor the story.

– Taxpayer-funded NPR ignored the story.

– The Washington Post suggested that the story was Russian disinformation.

– Fox News Chris Wallace — who had moderated the first presidential debate — poured scorn on the story, calling it “completely unverified”.

– MSNBC treated the Hunter Biden laptop story as if it were disinformation.

– The New York Times tried to discredit the story by reporting that staff at the New York Post doubted the authenticity of the story.

– Politico reported the letter from intelligence officials who called the Post story Russian “disinformation.” Later, after the election, Politico gloated that the Hunter Biden laptop story had “fizzled”.

– Axios media reporter Sara Fischer praised the censorship of the Post story, saying that the “defense systems” had worked.

– CNN deliberately spiked the story, and media reporter Brian Stelter demanded more censorship from Silicon Valley.

– ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos failed to ask Joe Biden a single question about the Post story on the laptop, during the 90-minute town hall meeting.

– NBC reported that federal authorities were investigating the Hunter Biden story as a foreign intelligence operation.
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2020/12/09/pollak-mainstream-media-big-tech-coverup-collapses-with-hunter-biden-investigation-laptop/

4.6% of Biden voters admit that they would not have voted for him had they been aware of evidence of this bombshell scandal ?
https://www.wnd.com/2020/11/poll-shows-media-stole-election-censoring-hunter-biden-story/

Also, the deeply corrupt FBI stopped investigating Hunter Biden while his dad Joe “Big Guy” Biden was running for president ?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/hunter-biden-tax-investigtation/

Reconcile ☝️
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December 11, 2020 8:50am
- RJ
  
  They even shut down the daughters diary of inappropriate showers with her dad. Strange we have a media that wants to cover up hunters pedophilia just for his father who had inappropriate showers with his young daughter because they don’t like trump and the deep state can’t control him. But then again the media is just as Chinese owned as the Biden’s.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:04am
  - Inandout
    
    RJ, the big tech 3 are very powerful men, but it appears they have overstpped the mark on Hunter Biden. There are calls from US politicians from both sides to break up this monopoly because even the left knows that once you allow censorship it becomes a double edged sword. They say J E Hoover of the FBI was the most powerful man in America, and indeed he had the dirt on every politican and public official and threatened to use it. However Hoover’s power is miniscule compared with Google/Twitter/FB influence. Those 3 know the movements of every mobile phone and computer user at any time and what they are watching; that is real unmitigated power.
    
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    December 11, 2020 10:35am
    - RJ
      
      Yeah, and with YouTube’s decision to now delete and ban anything that doesn’t fit their election narrative everyone is realising just how bad they have all become. I expect anything anti covid vaccine will be next
      
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      December 11, 2020 11:05am
      - Inandout
        
        RJ, as I have mentioned before the sites such as Blaze, Newsmax etc are littered with NZ ads so they must attract viewers. I can’t imagine YouTube cutting off their income just to join the big tech censorship.
        
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        December 11, 2020 1:22pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        The end game in this will be for big tech to lobby for legislation that backs and requiries their censorship – with the scale and complexity of that censorship system being then used to prevent any upstart competition. Regulatory capture has shored up many monopolies and cartels over the last century, and DNC can certainly see how Google+Facebook and Twitter hugely increased their vote last election so will be keen to legislatively lock in a playing field that is skewed towards them.
        
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        December 11, 2020 9:17pm
- Juliet2554
  
  & many of our new about this story in October as it was all over twitter. Never trended on twitter though. Obviously…
  This is why people don’t trust the media any longer.
  If anyone wants to see how news is manufactured, I recommended listening to the daily CNN exposed tapes – https://www.youtube.com/c/veritasvisuals . Basically Veritas was unknowingly to Cnn listening in & recording CNN’s 9am briefings for 2 months. They are exposing them everyday. This is why news can’t be trusted. Pure propaganda.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:36am
  - curry4me
    
    Jukiet2554: Yes, Project Veritas do sterling work. I especially like their ‘wall of shame’. That’s where they attach copies of all the retracted stories about them.
    
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    December 11, 2020 12:59pm
- Billy Collins
  
  So, Batman, is this still Russian disinfo?
  Those reputable sources you relied on still reputable to you?
  
  6 2
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  December 11, 2020 11:55am
RJ

Hmmmm

A former Israeli space security chief has sent eyebrows shooting heavenward by saying that earthlings have been in contact with extraterrestrials from a “galactic federation.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weird-news/former-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333
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December 11, 2020 8:54am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  Bullshit.
  
  There is no intelligent live on Earth.
  
  Maybe on Uranus 🙂
  
  14 2
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  December 11, 2020 9:36am
  - kowtow
    
    If you bend over with a mirror you can even see it.
    
    6 1
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    December 11, 2020 10:07am
  - skyblue
    
    I trust you are referring to the Clingons.
    
    4 1
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    December 11, 2020 10:34am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      No. He is refering to the moon.
      
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      December 11, 2020 1:34pm
  - Ehlana
    
    If there is intelligent life out there, would it really make contact with Earth?
    
    Then again, perhaps unintelligent life is not just confined to our world?
    
    4 0
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    December 11, 2020 12:07pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Of course Trump knows about it, he’s space cadet #1.
  
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  December 11, 2020 10:10am
  - Inandout
    
    BM, you getting ready for Biden quips?
    
    7 2
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    December 11, 2020 10:38am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Don’t really care.
      
      1 1
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      December 11, 2020 7:43pm
kowtow

I had a spare moment this am and contrasted TV3’s morning studio Christmas decorations (lots of them) with TV1’s ………none .

What’s that wokery about?
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December 11, 2020 9:21am
- MCos
  
  When I was young there was no TV in the morning.
  Now I know why.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:34am
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, you must be really, really, really old, I mean ‘Biden Old’. Hell what about ‘Bill and Ben, The Flower Pot Men’ or ‘Basil Brush’?
    
    6 2
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    December 11, 2020 10:41am
    - MCos
      
      I’m 72, which makes me younger than Biden, Trump, McConnell, Giuliani & Winston.
      My wife asked me yesterday if I was worried about Alzheimer’s. I said not particularly. She said you should be.
      
      Years ago when my son was about eight he was sitting in front of the TV at breakfast-time when he should have been getting ready for school. I said why are you watching the news? He said because it’s TV.
      
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      December 11, 2020 2:25pm
- Cobolt24
  
  I remember in the 90s TV1 used to change their logo to have a Christmas theme. I wonder when they stopped?
  
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  December 11, 2020 10:35am
  - Batman
    
    Don’t they change their theme colours on the background screens to red during Christmas?
    
    I don’t ever watch or care about breakfast TV so don’t have a recent reference point…
    
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    December 11, 2020 10:55am
    - RJ
      
      I think they wait until schools broken up then everything on Tvnz changes to Christmas decorations and themes.
      
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      December 11, 2020 11:03am
Juliet2554

I would like an investigation into how much NZ universities are receiving from China. Also our media & government.
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December 11, 2020 9:33am
- kowtow
  
  Both major parties have a same approach to Communist China going back to the “free trade ” farce of the ’90’s.
  
  We are now so heavily committed it would take only a ‘disrupter’ of the standing and stature of a Trump to get us out of our deeply subservient ‘China Syndrome”.
  
  If anyone thinks the gNats are the answer just look at Todd ‘Coup” Muller , representing the ‘progressive” wing of the party . His only answer to new Zealand’s economic woes was ……..China , China , China.
  
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  December 11, 2020 10:03am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    While I agree with your opening sentence, a Trumpy disrupter is not needed. If such a person followed the Trump pattern, he would talk tough about China while caving in to whatever they Beijing dictators actually wanted.
    
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    December 11, 2020 4:19pm
lifesgood

This wearing masks on Auckland transport is a bloody big joke. Utterly pointless. I am on a bus now. The driver is not wearing one. Of the 5 passengers 2 have them over their mouth only, 1 isn’t wearing one at all and 2, including me, are wearing them properly. There is no community transmission, when will they end this charade?
16 2
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December 11, 2020 9:38am
- sooty
  
  When the powers that can’t even give a one page press release to their tame media and cancel the standup comedy slot, you have take from that it’s all bullshit now!
  
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  December 11, 2020 10:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ends when Jaspinda says so, and not before. Comply or else
  
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  December 11, 2020 11:29am
- WaynelSexton
  
  It’s utterly pointless but you’re wearing one like a good little boy.
  It ends when you take off the mask like the other two legends on the bus.
  
  8 2
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  December 11, 2020 12:43pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    And you are supposed to take off the mask after the journey, not touching the front, and wash your hands immediately.
    
    Surgery room level cleanliness in a public bus. Yeah right. A real charade.
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:47pm
- JackRabbit
  
  The only transmission is in Managed Incubation Quarters, sharing air in the building with other people who are infected.
  
  It will never be zero as long as the MIQ Covid-19 re-infection baton relay marathon keeps operating, and providing false stats.
  
  And remember these are only tests that show if you have had or currently have it. Not hospitalizations or deaths.
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:45pm
Frank the tank

So our annual Broadbeach holiday might be back on now after the “Piechucker” realized she was burning down the State’s economy.

Alas i’ll have to quarantine on my way back from all the WuFlu currently over in the state of Queensland.

On the bright side I might be able to pick up some Christmas presents as I believe container ships can be de-vanned in less than 30 days over there.

Oh course Little Aotearoa cultists will still want the border closed.
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December 11, 2020 9:55am
kowtow

A sane voice in academia.

“Dr Graso said the results supported the hypothesis, suggesting Covid-19 elimination efforts had become “moralised to an almost sacred level”.

Prioritising control or elimination of Covid-19 also carried collateral human costs, such as unemployment, extreme financial stress, social isolation, substance abuse and delayed cancer diagnoses.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/virus-containment-elimination-efforts-have-become-%E2%80%98moralised%E2%80%99
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December 11, 2020 9:56am
Surely Knott

From the Australian, “ABC shows pinged for bias towards Labor”

“An internal review has found two of the ABC’s flagship political discussion programs favoured Labor over the Coalition during the 2019 federal election campaign, with one at times showing a “marked enthusiasm’’ for a Labor victory.”

Do our media, especially those receiving public funding, have internal or independent reviews to check their bias. Are those bias reports ever made public.
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December 11, 2020 10:10am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Nearly spilled my coffee when I read your last two questions.
  
  Of course they don’t silly, what they get is $50m cash, no questions asked (because they already know what the answers will be – nudge, nudge).
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:54pm
I remember when

“Fleeing drunk ‘gunman’ in Dunedin foiled by roadworks.”
Labour law and order at its very best!
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December 11, 2020 10:17am
UrbanNeocolonialist

Demonstrating use of Dominion voting machines. All power in the hands of operators to change votes any way they like with no way of finding someone switching votes after the fact. The system requires close scrutiny by poll watchers (which was widely denied in this election, and complaints and challengers in instances that were spotted have been completely ignored by courts):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJIqfYHKpVk&feature=emb_logo
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December 11, 2020 10:22am
Critical Thinker

? BREAKING ?
106 members of the House have now given their full support of the Texas SCOTUS lawsuit against Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan. ??

“This brief presents our concern as Members of Congress, shared by untold millions of their constituents, that the unconstitutional irregularities involved in the 2020 presidential election cast doubt upon its outcome.

Our constitutional republic has endured for nearly two and a half centuries based on the consent of the governed. That consent is grounded in the confidence of our people in the legitimacy of our institutions of government. Among our most fundamental institutions is the system of free and fair elections that we rely upon, and any erosion in that foundation jeopardizes the stability of our
republic.

Fortunately, the Framers of our Constitution provided for this moment. It is now the duty of this Honorable Court to objectively review the facts presented by the Plaintiff in this historic case, render judgment upon the unconstitutional actions in the Defendant states, and restore the confidence of all Americans that the rule of law will be upheld today and our elections in the future will be secured.

ARGUMENT

I. The U.S. Constitution Gives Plenary Authority to State Legislatures to Determine the Manner of Appointing Presidential Electors

II-IV. The Usurpation of Legislative Power in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan & Wisconsin Produced Unconstitutional Ballots”
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December 11, 2020 10:23am
- RJ
  
  A good video from the American Center for Law and Justice
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7wc1MttNaA&feature=emb_logo
  
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  December 11, 2020 11:34am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The President’s top duty also must be the preservation of the Republic. This attempt of subversion via the ballot box diminishes the rights of all citizens.
  
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  December 11, 2020 11:53am
Biscuit

Shocking news, Kiwibloggers.

It is blowing a gale here in Wellington as the Second Test gets ready to kick-off (or whatever term Cricketers use for the start of play).

And ‘warm’ is NOT an adjective I would use about the temp.
‘As cold as Helen Clark’s heart’, a friend just commented.

A typically-fine day, otherwise, in the Riviera of the South.
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December 11, 2020 11:12am
- Batman
  
  Clearing up later in the day, however
  
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  December 11, 2020 1:09pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  “As cold as a witch’s tit” is a good analogy, which coincidentally matches your friend’s description 🙂
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:51pm
I remember when

While there does seem to be evidence that male pupil academic performance is deteriorating, is it a recent outcome.
Thinking back to my years, I can think of several girls who were ‘top-of-the-class’ in subjects, but have little recall of similar male outcomes.
Also, at that time secondary school education was largely single sex so results weren’t compared.
Except perhaps as part of School Certificate or University Entrance results.
Often secondary school specialised in different subjects depending on gender.
Boys went to school to fill in time until they were 15 and could get a job and leave.
Now secondary schools prepare students for tertiary education.
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December 11, 2020 11:12am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Secondary education now focuses more on the voluminous workloads of continual internal assessment, rewarding diligence. Previously end of year examinations required only a few weeks of serious effort. For strong evolutionary reasons girls tend to have greater trait conscientiousness even if they tend to be less competitively focused. That’s what gets them ahead in secondary education over their male peers.
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:25pm
oldfella

You don’t have to be a football follower to appreciate this free speech controversy in the UK.

On Saturday, some Millwall fans, on their long-awaited return to their stadium, The Den, booed Millwall players as they took a knee in support of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement. One supporter was heard shouting ‘get up!’ in response to the players. Since then, many pundits and former players have condemned the booing, and Millwall FC has released a statement regarding the incident. Now, the English FA has announced that it plans to investigate the booing. This could have chilling effects not only on football, but also on wider society going forward.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/12/10/free-speech-for-football-fans/
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December 11, 2020 11:25am
Maggie Pie

Just got a txt from ‘Black Market Wines’ suggesting we….” order early and avoid the Xmas rush”.

What do they think we’ve been doing for the last 12 months? 😛
9 2
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December 11, 2020 11:29am
- RJ
  
  Drinking what you’ve been ordering and running dry?
  
  9 1
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  December 11, 2020 11:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It sort of works out like that. Lion Nathan are not bringing in Crown Royal, so I bought a carton of 12. Wonder how long it will last
    
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    December 11, 2020 2:29pm
I remember when

March 22, 2019.
Researchers from University of Nottingham have found much higher percentage of ‘natural’ fibres than microplastic fibres in freshwater and atmospheric samples in UK.Over a 12-month period 223 samples were collected from 10 sites: from the river Trent, River Leon, River Soar and four roofs of the University’s UK campuses.
Microplastic textile fibres, such as polyester and nylon, were absent from 82.8% of samples, whereas ‘natural’ textile fibres were absent from only 9.7% of samples.
The findings question whether we know enough about environmental threat of some of the plastic-alternatives we are turning to, to help save the planet.
Lead researcher, Tom Stanton says, “There is a high percentage of natural fibres in our water – and we don’t really understand what the impact on the environment will be.
More needs to be done.”
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December 11, 2020 11:36am
Maggie Pie

And who gave that ‘Mad Mexican’ the right to have a say in how our country should be run?
Th guys a total fruit-loop! Sitting there talking shit and pulling 170k of OUR money. I mean who else would give him a job.

Build a wall!!
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December 11, 2020 12:26pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Heh, he’s from Sinaloa cartel country, el Chapo would teach him how to tunnel under it…
  
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  December 11, 2020 1:55pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wonder how long before he arranges ‘Visitor Visas’ for his mates like Golriz did?
    
    5 2
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    December 11, 2020 3:01pm
- MCos
  
  All those Nats who didn’t vote Labour to keep the Greens out.
  
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  December 11, 2020 1:58pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/h4o_4P2lAWI/

HUNTER BIDEN COMES UNDER FEDERAL INVESTIGATION.

There is a Justice Department investigation of Hunter Biden. Tax violations are being investigated. The MSM were busy denying he had done a thing, in the lead up to the election. Now there
is something to see. Foreign ties, and possible money laundering are also being investigated.
Of course the fake news people never asked Beijing Biden about Hunter during the run up
to the election.
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December 11, 2020 12:33pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ba-HQAOiPk0/

17 STATES JOIN TEXAS LAWSUIT.

17 STATES have joined the Texas lawsuit in the Supreme Court against Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Meanwhile, Democrat Cynthia Johnson has been SUSPENDED from her duties as state representative and is UNDER INVESTIGATION for her comments about conservatives. #SCOTUS #TexasLawSuit #Trump. Nothing to see here folks. Nobody cheated.
The election was conducted fairly. Nobody violated the constitution. Now, pop over to TV1, and watch Shortland Street. /sarc
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December 11, 2020 12:33pm
- Don Beckett
  
  The Texas AG explains his case to SCOTUS.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu_JvESluMg
  
  May not go anywhere, but appears to be the most sound case yet.
  
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  December 11, 2020 1:08pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    […], but appears to be the most sound case yet.
    
    Oh, c’mon, Don, that’s nonsense.
    
    The pertinent parts of the Texas suit are—
    
    “Put another way, Defendant States’ unconstitutional actions affect outcome-determinative numbers of popular votes, that in turn affect outcome-determinative numbers of electoral votes.”
    
    [and]
    
    “Pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 1251(a), Plaintiff State has filed a motion for leave to file a bill of complaint today. As set forth in the complaint and outlined above, all Defendant States ran their 2020 election process in noncompliance with the ballot-integrity requirements of their State legislature’s election statutes, generally using the COVID-19 pandemic as a pretext or rationale for doing so. In so doing, Defendant States disenfranchised not only their own voters, but also the voters of all other States: “the impact of the votes cast in each State is affected by the votes cast for the various candidates in other States.” Anderson v. Celebrezze, 460 U.S. 780, 795 (1983).”
    
    Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said in the video you linked to that “if other states don’t follow the Constitution […] it affects my state […].”
    
    But, as I asked Critical Thinker yesterday (Here’s all the courts Trump has lost in, at 5:29PM)—
    
    “What ‘clear and convincing evidence’ does Texas have, that is proof ‘of some real and substantial injury or damage’ to it (or [to] its citizens) by the defendant states?”
    
    That question uses language used by the Court in a previous dispute between states.
    
    In what way were the voters in Texas disenfranchised by the alleged actions of election officials in the four Defendant States, let alone in those states? They all got to cast a vote. Do the, as at right now, 5,259,126 Texans who voted for Joe Biden (see https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/, then click on TX) consider themselves to have been disenfranchised? I suspect not.
    
    What Paxton is really saying, therefore, is that those who voted for Trump, including the 5,890,347 Texans who did so, were disenfranchised. That is view not universally shared.
    
    As bruceavon pointed out at 8:50AM, above, “The argument about states changing the system illegally has been well covered through the courts in several other cases that were thrown out.”
    
    Not only does this suit not constitute an “original action”, but Texas has not been “seriously injured” by the Defendant States. This bill of complaint will be dismissed.
    
    In conclusion, I point you to virtualmark’s comment at 2:37PM, above. He quite simply nails it.
    
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    December 11, 2020 5:45pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      In what way were the voters in Texas disenfranchised by the alleged actions of election officials in the four Defendant States, let alone in those states? They all got to cast a vote.
      
      But, effectively all votes were not equal, particularly those of indeterminate persons some of whom were dead and other votes allocated or denied by algorithm. A Trump vote weighted at 87% and a Biden vote weighted at 113% are plainly not equal. How can citizenship be maintained if votes are not equally ranked?
      
      The common rule for cheating is that the perpetrator must be denied any apparent advantage.
      
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      December 11, 2020 6:08pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        But, effectively all votes were not equal, […].
        
        Again, that is a view not universally shared. Such issues have to be decided in the courts of the [Defendant States], as they have been. The fact that few, if any, of the cases are making it into higher courts, let alone the Supreme Court, must surely say “a lot” (as Trump would say).
        
        The 38 Texas electors have certainly not been disenfranchised; they can still vote for Trump and Pence on Monday. Consequently, no “injury” or “damage” has been done to Texas.
        
        This suit is clearly politically motivated. For that reason alone, it will surely be dismissed.
        
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        December 11, 2020 6:42pm
- MCos
  
  More fake news.
  Shorthand St is on TV2.
  
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  December 11, 2020 1:56pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was sarc LOL
    
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    December 11, 2020 3:16pm
  - curry4me
    
    MCos: I don’t watch TV. I dislike ads, and promos. They interrupt the plot. Plus, if I watched TVNZ, my brain would start dribbling out my ears. Listening to Radio Live [live from the neck down] would greatly hasten the process.
    
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    December 11, 2020 6:01pm
Jack5

Gun City owner David Tipple and an RNZ reporter discuss the Royal Commission report on the Christchurch massacres:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018776559
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December 11, 2020 12:46pm
Fletch

ps, as far as the so-called “Safe Harbor” time limit of the 8th of December or the 14th of December – that does not mean that the election cannot be challenged past those dates. Look up the election of 1876 which was disputed due to allegations of widespread fraud. The president wasn’t decided until two days before inauguration.

Allegations of widespread voter fraud forced Congress to set up a special electoral commission to determine the winner, composed of fifteen congressmen and Supreme Court justices. The commission finally announced their decision only two days before the inauguration.

https://www.rbhayes.org/hayes/disputed-election-of-1876/
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December 11, 2020 12:55pm
- MCos
  
  Trump can’t issue pardons in NZ.
  You know that, don’t you?
  
  3 6
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  December 11, 2020 1:50pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  1876 was rather different, and messier. Electoral results were disputed in four states, which sent competing sets of electors to Washington. The dispute was solved by special legislation to set up a commission which, as it had a majority of republican appointees, awarded the presidency to the republican candidate. As a quid pro quo for accepting the solution, the democrats were appeased by the end of reconstruction in the former confederate states.
  
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  December 11, 2020 2:16pm
  - Fletch
    
    Sounds very similar. Election results disputed in four states now as well, in particular.
    
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    December 11, 2020 3:28pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    @mikenmildagain @ 2:16PM
    
    Regarding the election of 1876 (and the Electoral Count Act of 1887 and the Safe Harbor Deadline), this is a good read: https://www.statutesandstories.com/blog_html/electoral-count-act-of-1887-and-the-election-of-1876/.
    
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    December 11, 2020 3:56pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Thanks, an interesting read. One has to wonder how far fraud can be allowed to go in affecting an election. The rules could be part of the scheme. I am sure the Justices will be very reluctant to be seen to disenfranchise anyone but is fraud to supersede that?
      If the dubious States are allowed to stand I will not be surprised to see a State of Emergency declared.
      
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      December 11, 2020 5:57pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thanks, an interesting read.
        
        You’re welcome.
        
        […] I will not be surprised to see a State of Emergency declared.
        
        Yes, you’ve said that a number of times now, Kev, and I wonder why.
        
        The President’s power to declare a national emergency is governed by the National Emergencies Act [of 1976]. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act.)
        
        The president’s executive powers under Article II of the Constitution are several, but, under the Act, they don’t include the power to cancel a presidential election (only?) and order a new one. In this regard, see the section headed ‘Emergency powers’.
        
        Perhaps you can explain what you’re getting at.
        
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        December 11, 2020 7:35pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Fletch, the dates you mention were put in place by the Electoral Count Act of 1887, as amended (obviously).
  
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  December 11, 2020 7:48pm
Maggie Pie

TXT from my partner to say he’ll be late home tonite.
He’s having Yum Cha at Grand Harbor with a couple of friends. Thinks they recognize Jian Yang waiting tables.
7 5
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December 11, 2020 2:03pm
- David George
  
  Watch out for the salad dressing, cream of sum yang guy, it’s not very nice
  
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  December 11, 2020 7:54pm
Lance

Maybe our long suffering host, DPF could set a daily post “demented ramblings about US elections” so GD doesn’t descend into 90% partisan insults and render it all but useless in the first few minutes until the end of the day?
7 10
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December 11, 2020 2:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Maybe DPF could ban commie trolls – they serve no purpose
  
  13 4
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  December 11, 2020 3:19pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What a great idea. but do we have any ‘commie trolls’?
    
    4 7
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    December 11, 2020 4:12pm
    - Batman
      
      I assume he means you, Comrade Mikhail ? (and probably me too, laughably)
      
      5 8
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      December 11, 2020 4:13pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I refuse to confirm or deny how many – including the run of the mill trolls here
      
      6 3
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      December 11, 2020 5:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Some facts from Liz Wheeler on Covid. We are being played.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6nn0ow5_n8
10 4
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December 11, 2020 2:43pm
Fletch

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10224668117792988

?
7 3
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December 11, 2020 3:27pm
Fletch

Probably going to use Parler more….

An outspoken Twitter activist critical of Donald Trump who brags about being on “team” Hillary Clinton is the supposedly independent expert in charge of who can become a Facebook fact-checker.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215525891001
10 4
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December 11, 2020 3:38pm
Maggie Pie

How do you get on China’s payroll?

Asking for a friend.
9 2
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December 11, 2020 3:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ask Joe and Hunter
  
  14 4
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  December 11, 2020 3:43pm
- RJ
  
  Or Eric Swalwell
  
  Brian Kemp Will also know, and so will his brother who works for Huawei
  
  Pelosi and her family can also answer for you on how to get Chinese money, so can the Bush’s, Clinton’s and Obama.
  
  The list is rather long, even some in New Zealand who run blogs have Chinese money connections.
  
  10 2
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  December 11, 2020 4:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Leave Killary out of it or you will be DOA
    
    11 3
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    December 11, 2020 5:27pm
    - SB2
      
      Killary???
      
      0 6
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      December 11, 2020 7:57pm
- BAM
  
  Ask Peter Goodfellow.
  
  2 0
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  December 11, 2020 5:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nancy Pelosi hates America. Crenshaw explains.
Lefties, go stand in the corner and take your TDS with you.
https://rumble.com/vbqyhh-rep.-dan-crenshaw-slams-nancy-pelosi.html?
9 3
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December 11, 2020 3:42pm
Maggie Pie

Just watched Hannity giving his take on the Eric Swalwell affair.
You’d have to think the Chinese are a pack of amatuers when it comes to setting up a ‘Honey Trap’.
‘There wouldn’t be one guy I know who’d want a blowjob from somebody calling herself ‘Christine Fang’
12 2
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December 11, 2020 4:28pm
Fletch

UPDATE: 21 States Now Support Texas SCOTUS Lawsuit, 42% of America to Sue 8% of America.

https://nationalfile.com/update-21-states-now-support-texas-scotus-lawsuit-42-of-america-to-sue-8-of-america/
6 1
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December 11, 2020 4:45pm
Maggie Pie

And, looks like hard times ahead for ‘PornHub’

Both Visa and Mastercard have withdrawn their payment facilities to access the site.

About time.
6 0
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December 11, 2020 5:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What is “Pornhub?”
  Asking for all Kiwibloggers. Please explain.
  
  7 2
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  December 11, 2020 5:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oh, 1 downtick – tugging away on a Friday evening.
    
    6 3
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    December 11, 2020 5:41pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I was offered a part in a porn movie once.
    
    It became all too hard in the end so I told them where to stick it.
    
    7 1
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    December 11, 2020 6:13pm
    - RJ
      
      Awww, who stared in the the catholic school porno that year then?
      
      3 2
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      December 11, 2020 6:19pm
      - RJ
        
        Starred
        
        1 2
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        December 11, 2020 6:28pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        No silly! It was a MILF movie 😛
        
        2 1
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        December 11, 2020 9:03pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Heh, heh, good one Maggie. Love it.
      
      I also love the way Steve gave himself away by asking, “What is Pornhub?” when you had referred to “PornHub”. Heh, heh, heh, heh. So good. Silly boy.
      
      6 0
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      December 11, 2020 8:28pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It’s called trolling Todd.
        
        1 2
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        December 12, 2020 8:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Whatever will their staff and friends do?
  
  6 1
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  December 11, 2020 5:44pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I knew a porn hub once, but his wife divorced him.
  
  4 0
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  December 11, 2020 6:18pm
Fletch

Time magazine has named Biden and Pelosi the “Person of the Year” (not sure how that works). But yeh, ?

2020 is the year that keeps on giving.
4 1
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December 11, 2020 5:09pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300181870/joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-named-2020-time-person-of-the-year
I want to say something witty and pithy about this but am lost for words.
12 1
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December 11, 2020 6:09pm
- Inandout
  
  grey, they look like couple of bandits.
  
  6 0
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  December 11, 2020 6:16pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Well they gave Obama the Nobel peace prize for just getting elected ?
  
  The Time magazine cover is very based though ?
  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eo72TpJVgAEvLh-?format=jpg
  
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  December 11, 2020 9:53pm
Inandout

How to make friends and influence gun owners even before you are inaugrated.
https://trends.gab.com/item/5fd3052e5400172939bda575
This should make the Mayor of South Bend as happy as a sand boy.
4 1
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December 11, 2020 6:40pm
Maggie Pie

SCOTUS to release their decision tomorrow.

Good luck Mister President.
8 3
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December 11, 2020 7:21pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Prepare to be disappointed, Maggie.
  
  6 2
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  December 11, 2020 7:25pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    People are going to need a lot of hugs soon, Steve 😀
    
    9 3
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    December 11, 2020 7:47pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Ahh, hugs. I love hugs.
      
      5 0
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      December 11, 2020 8:35pm

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