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December 7, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 07 December 2020

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy International Civil Aviation Day!
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December 7, 2020 8:01am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  I usually find these funny but today this one is just sad as I remember travel, the industry I love and have worked in for 20 years which is now just a shell of its former self.
  As days go on and the PM remains silent about our future I do fear that when she does decide in the end to reopen the border many airlines will no longer fly here. This will result in less choice for the traveling public and higher fares so when you have to pay $800 to go to Australia on a special please do not yell at your travel agent or airline representitive remember the PM and government who caused this.
  As an aside as I do not play the woman card the travel industry is female dominated with many being single mothers, how is what has been done to us in any way “kind”.
  We need to see there is some light at the end of this tunnel but I fear the PM has no plan so can offer us no hope.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:57am
  - Inandout
    
    CH, hence travel shops closing down or have skeleton staff numbers. Mind you up until the flu increasing numbers of travellers were doing their bookings online anyway.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:37am
    - Charmaine Hawke
      
      Yes and no, people are happy to book the easy stuff on line but more complex itineraries was where we came into our own as an industry.
      I have been out of a shop for 15 years and broker from home with many repeat and referral clients. I think our model will dominate whatever future the industry has as we can stand the shock of no income a little better than someone with 20K overheads each month before earning a cent.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:41am
    - MCos
      
      I would suggest that travel shops were on the skids anyway.
      Once upon a time it was a big deal come out of one of those places with a sheaf of tickets stapled together representing your life’s saving to fly the family from Timaru to Wellington, starting with a DC3 to Ch’ch.
      Now, well a year ago, a few clicks on the phone and you’re off round the world for a wedding.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:44am
      - Charmaine Hawke
        
        I agree but there is still a place for us especially when putting together all the pieces of a major trip. Flight to a wedding no issue but if you want a river cruise, pre and post cruise package and a road trip around Italy for afters we come into our own there.
        Also when something goes awry we can step in and fix that as well. The number of ticket re-routes I did to get people back into NZ in March as borders were closing and flights cancelling was staggering. I am sure my clients were happy I was doing that and not someone in the airlines call centre.
        
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        December 7, 2020 12:38pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Too right Charmaine. When my wife and I holidayed in Europe in 2015, we received notification that the river cruise our agent had booked us on was cancelled due to low water levels in the Danube. We could have gone into a tailspin, but we contacted our agent, and within 12 hours were booked onto another cruise leaving from a different destination (Prague, instead of Budapest), with a week’s worth of land-based travel organised via Vienna and a delightful town in the southern Czech Republic named Cesky Krumlov. We could not have been happier with the service provided.
        
        Sure, we don’t need a travel agent for a weekend in Australia, but for any significant, multi-country travel, we would certainly deal through our travel agent again.
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:26pm
      - tavita
        
        My travel broker works from home like Charmaine. She is available 24/7 – great when working from other time zones. I did once call her when stranded in some airport at 3am NZ time, and she fixed it. So i normally put all my simple stuff through her too. This is despite the efforts of the airlines to freeze agents out. Mind you with the airline apps are getting so much better these days, it can be tempting to switch to self service.
        
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        December 7, 2020 6:16pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Sheeple are happy to be house bound and enjoying while the borders are shut. So why blame the PM? She is busy fixing poverdy.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:49am
    - Charmaine Hawke
      
      SCS sometimes your satire is on point and sometimes it misses the mark, today is one of those days. Yes I am a little sensitive but losing something you spent years working on can do that to a person.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:42am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Charmaine – I am still fuming about the election loss and how the farmers and small businesses ditched National to vote for Labour. All my satire has gone out of the window. I am grumpy.
        
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        December 7, 2020 1:34pm
    - amospicton
      
      Not sure whether anyone else saw but Campbell had her on the ropes this morning re poverdy. At least until his journalistic instincts were swamped bu his political instincts.
      
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      December 7, 2020 12:27pm
      - chukar
        
        SCS.
        Why do you keep blaming farmers for just about anything ?
        You could have a wonderful career as a “ farm advisor “ if you could get anyone at all to listen to you.
        Nah ,The sheep won’t , neither will farmers dogs
        Does not leave much of an audience.
        
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        December 7, 2020 3:09pm
  - Bob
    
    So true Charmaine.
    But our silly little girl PM does have a ‘PLAN’!!
    Welfare dependency and control of the masses, gives her the sense of power that she craves.
    Why do you think that we are being ‘conditioned’ to ‘sign in’ or ‘zap the app’; its to get us to accept having our movements ‘monitored’ as per Soviet Union practice last century
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:13am
cmm

Few things rile me more than people coming to live permanently in NZ and not considering it home and not committing to the country.

When people talk of “back home” or “home country” it irks me no end. If somewhere else is your home then why not piss off back there? And I’m not just talking about Indians, but Poms, Aussies and South Africans too.

I am an immigrant and have been here 28 years. I have not had a “home country” other than NZ since my passport was stamped in Auckland on 3 August 1992. Even when I’d only been here three days I would correct people asking me about “back home” and it is a phrase I have never used myself. I have burned my ships. This is my home.

A New Zealand citizenship is a valuable gift to be treasured and deserves a 100% commitment to NZ. If you come to live here, then live here.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crowd-gathers-at-aucklands-aotea-square-to-protest-against-indias-new-agriculture-laws/J7WYBTKXF3ZRWHMF7JRJHG5QRU/

As for government bail outs for farmers don’t these people realise that the only way farmers can get subsidies is by taxing other people harder? Other Indians must live in poverty to give farmers some extra dosh. And yes, this isn’t just an Indian issue but a worldwide issue. It is just that Indians suffer more under these regulations.
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December 7, 2020 8:03am
- kowtow
  
  A couple of things strike me immediately about that story.
  
  It is written by the herald’s “diversity” senior reporter . Looking at the photos these protesters are not just “Indians” , they are Sikhs . The flags suggest an element of exclusivity on that front , but of course as the report is so short on detail only an insider would know. The photo of a banner saying “Fuk Modi” could also suggest an element of vitriol beyond a mere farm protest ( Modi being a Hindu extremist , according to some ). The report also suggests from the US that this is a Sikh thing and not purely “Indian” ( Indians being very diverse)
  
  Last but not least , it would be nice to see these folk protest on behalf of New Zealand farmers as our wealth as a nation and standard of living depend on the hard work done by them ,and this govt , media ,NGOs and so called environmentalists are giving them a good kicking.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:27am
  - lifesgood
    
    “giving them a kicking” Lol, they voted Labour!
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:36am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Yes the NZ farmers deserve whatever they get from Labour and the toxic Greens. They voted for Labour. Let them have it. I have no sympathy.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:51am
      - Matt Long
        
        I’m yet to meet a farmer who admits to having voted Labour this election, however there are loons in every occupation.
        I’m guessing the Jaffa refugees may have swung some electorates.
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:31am
    - kowtow
      
      Didn’t.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:14am
  - Durden
    
    Yes. More to this than meets the eye. I agree with CMM–If any community feels so strongly about their “home” then they should be encouraged to go back there.
    
    Reports say protests are strong and essentially around the border Punjab area. Read the section headlined “Why the protests” in this article from Times of India, a reliable MSM source and a newspaper of record.
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/new-farm-bill-2020-who-is-protesting-why/articleshow/78179693.cms
    
    There is also suggestions that the Punjabi Khalistan separatist movement is behind the strength of the protests. There is a huge diaspora of Punjabis around the world who are being used to drum up support. Hence co-ordinated protests internationally.
    
    “Intelligence sources said the use of Khalistan as a propaganda material is a last ditch attempt by outfits like the SFJ to garner support in terms of both people and funding in countries like the US, the UK and Canada where they have been organising signature campaigns and protests for the last one year. The governments in these countries has allowed them free speech and it is only through the use of the ‘K’ word they are able to garner some support, the official said.”
    
    https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2020/12/02/amid-farmers-stir-khalistan-being-used-as-a-propaganda-material.html
    
    And:
    “Just as Congress played a dangerous game right after the Citizenship Amendment Act was passed, leading to riots in Delhi where several Congress leaders have been accused, Congress seems to be repeating their shenanigan, this time, using the farm bills as an excuse. ”
    
    https://www.opindia.com/2020/11/khalistan-slogans-indira-gandhi-assassination-pro-imran-khan-farmer-protest-congress-game/
    
    The ISI (equiv. CIA) of Pakistan will be happy that there is trouble at the border. Congress seems happy as a way of clawing back relevancy after being thrashed in elections. But the threats to kill Modi must worry them because it was the Khalistani issue that led to congress leader Mrs Indira Gandhi’s assasination by her Sikh bodyguard.
    
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    December 7, 2020 2:10pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  When I lived in Wellington there was couple next door who were from Scotland. Been here 20 years. Had no intention of becoming New Zealand citizens. And had Scotland flag on flag pole on roof of house.
  
  I thought it was odd.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:27am
  - rockape
    
    Do you think all those kiwis living in cheap Asian countries consider themselves Kiwis or Indonesians?
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:07am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Kiwis living Aus.?
      That want the same benefits the Aussies have, without becoming Australian.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:47am
      - Ian Boag
        
        It is hard, slow and expensive to become Australian. Add “very” to each ….
        
        Most Kiwis living over there as guest workers would never get there even if they tried. They would probably like to get the benefits that they (and Aussies) pay tax for.
        
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        December 7, 2019 11:47am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @rockape
        
        You need to talk to a Kiwi who has gone through the mill of Aus PR/citizenship. There is (quite) a bit more to it than those numbers ….
        
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        December 7, 2019 2:53pm
      - Flossie
        
        Trying to become an Australian citizen is virtually impossible for most New Zealanders. And if you could qualify it is hideously expensive.
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:42am
      - rockape
        
        Cost of NZ citizenship : $470.20. Cost of Australian Citizenship $180 to $285. Seems Aussie is cheaper by a considerable margin.
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:48pm
      - Flossie
        
        @rockape
        Have no clue where those figures are from. I have lived in Australia and attempted to get permanent residency which is required prior to requesting citizenship. The costs of tha alone was literally thousands.
        
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        December 7, 2020 3:41pm
      - giltee
        
        Obviously you haven’t lived there. Kiwis don’t get all the benefits Ozzie’s have and as said it’s almost impossible and very expensive to become citizen. It’s easier for people from other countries to get citizenship.
        
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        December 7, 2020 3:56pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @rockape
        I know about these costs and other obstacles because my son navigated it over several years …
        
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        December 7, 2020 4:59pm
  - sooty
    
    They couldn’t help it.
    They were Scottish and they are all different!
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:21am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s damn rude to fly other country’s flags domestically. If one’s so enamoured by whatever it is : Just FO back there.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:26am
- RW Capitalist
  
  My father was Dutch, came over (when offered) after the war in Indonesia, like many.
  He would get infuriated when his Dutch friends would speak Dutch, when there were non Dutch speakers were present.
  He considered it the height of rudeness.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:41am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    It’s a Dutch trait. I once endured a game of golf with three Afrikaans immigrants who insisted on speaking to each other in their native tongue.
    Arrogant bastards.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:00am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      There are umpteen similar stories about Afrikaner migrants here.
      ‘Refugees from democracy’, Lange called them.
      
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      December 7, 2020 9:11am
      - rangitoto
        
        More like refugees from rampant crime.
        
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        December 7, 2020 10:12am
      - Bevan
        
        How dare they not stay in Sth Africa to be raped, robed or murdered….
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:35am
    - carl wiekart
      
      You do know where Dutch people come from eh? I’ll give you a clue it’s not Africa.
      
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      December 7, 2020 9:14am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        One example
        English………………Intend
        Afrikaans……………van plan is
        Dutch…………………van plan zijn
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:21am
      - Bevan
        
        Have you ever heard of the Afrikaner?
        
        Here’s a hint, they originated from somewhere in Europe
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:36am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Have had it happen to me
      Maori
      Samoan
      Tongan
      German
      French
      Italian
      Spanish
      Guess there are rude people everywhere.
      
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      December 7, 2020 9:25am
    - Jack5
      
      Never experienced rudeness from a Dutch migrant in New Zealand.
      
      I have found Dutch people likeable. In their culture they are more direct than typical English native-speakers, but that has good points.
      
      Dutch immigrants coming soon after World War 2 when their country was recovering from Occupation were hard working people, and they assimilated.
      
      You can understand why sometimes they were taken a back by locals’ near- arrogance about the English language. The Dutch are good at languages.
      
      As well as Dutch, the Netherlands has regional languages: Frisian, which is the English language’s closest relative; Limburghish, spoken by about 825,000 people; and Low Saxon, similar to the north German Plattdeutsch dialects. Also, the Netherlands is surrounded by French, German, and Belgian French and Belgian Flemish speakers.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:38am
      - Paulie_
        
        There were two influxes of Dutch speaking immigrants into NZ in the 50’s, those from Holland and those like myself from Indonesia. The two were as similar as the British and New Zealanders.
        
        The European Dutch (kaaskops, or cheeseheads) tended to be similar to Germans, with emphasis on rules and order, while us Indonesian Dutch (kachangs, Malay for peanuts) tended to be a lot more laid back, but sadly rather colonialist in attitude to other races.
        
        The Dutch spoken by my lot was about halfway between pure Dutch and Afrikaans, in that I could read it, but had difficulty in understanding the spoken Afrikaans. It was also riddled with Malay (or Bahasa Indonesian) as well as Chinese words.
        
        Our food varied too, being based on rice rather than potatoes, with dollops of hot sambal, beef & chicken, and don’t you dare offer us lamb or mutton.
        
        As far as my home, I’m in it. I visited both my place of birth (Bali), and place of my ancestors (Holland). Both beautiful countries, with awesome people, but after six weeks I almost wept when I walked into Auckland International Airport and again heard people speaking New Zilnd ??
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:47pm
  - Chris R
    
    I had a group of Maori in my office during 2019 to discuss a land matter (not Maori land either.) They largely spoke Te Reo particularly among themselves. It was my office and they knew I did not understand Te Reo. Initially I thought they were being rude to me but looking back they were simply showing-off amongst themselves.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:24am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      It’s still rude
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:48am
    - Bob
      
      More like arrogance and ignorance on display.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:14am
  - Max Sky
    
    I was Australian born, after I arrived here in 1974 people used to poke fun at my accent but I didn’t care. Forty six years later they can still pick a bit of Ocker up here and there and we enjoy a bit of banter, all in good humour ANZACs after all. For 25 years I visited Germany on business, despite English being deemed the ‘official business language’ they spoke German in my presence. That’s okay again I did’t care it’s their country. One evening we went to view the German speaking Sunset Boulevard movie (without English subtitles) in Berlin. As I had seen the original USA version I knew the plot and phrases used and was able to advise some of my German colleagues what was happening and why. They never spoke German to each other in my presence again.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:51am
    - Flossie
      
      My partner is Australian and after many years he also has a hint of his original accent. The thing that bugs him more than anything when people rightly guess his origins is that he is often rudely spoken to regarding the underarm bowling incident… He also did not appreciate the unsporting action but so many kiwis want to “have a go” at him!
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:22am
      - Jack5
        
        Foreigners mostly have difficulty differentiation New Zealand and Australian accents. There are even videos on Youtube explaining how to do this – get the person to say “fish and chips”.
        
        South Australians pronounce the vowel “a” in a similar way to New Zealanders in words like “dance” and “chance”.
        
        A hundred years ago, and even less in some parts of the South Island. many New Zealanders pronounced “dance” and “chance” in way similar to most other Australians do.
        
        At the beginning of this video clip, an American accent coach gives a way of differentiation the Australian and New Zealand accents:
        
        https://youtu.be/XKuPfZpzEHg
        
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        December 7, 2020 10:49am
      - Jack5
        
        Edit: please read “differentiating” for “differentiation”.
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:10am
      - Flossie
        
        @Jack5
        My partner has lots of family in SA and to a man they pronounce dance and chance with the “a” how we say the “a” in hand
        
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        December 7, 2020 12:12pm
      - Jack5
        
        Flossie, an article in Wikipedia, suggests South Australians mainly use the “broad a”, as most in NZ do.
        
        This is from the article:
        
        In Australian English, pronunciations vary regionally according to the type of vowel that occurs before the sounds nd, ns, nt, nce, nch, and mple, and the pronunciation of the suffix “-mand”. In words like “chance”, “plant”, “branch”, “sample” and “demand”, the vast majority of Australians use the flat /æ/ TRAP vowel.
        
        In South Australia, however, there is a high proportion of people who use the broad /aː/ BATH vowel in these words. For example, a survey of pronunciation in different cities found that 86% of those surveyed in Adelaide pronounced graph with an /aː/, whereas 100% of those surveyed in Hobart and 70% of those surveyed in Melbourne used /æ/.
        
        Because of the prevalence of the South Australian broad A, the South Australian accent appears to be closer to Cultivated Australian English than other state dialects.
        
        Or here’s a funny video about the Adelaide accent:
        
        https://youtu.be/ZlFpxAjy71A
        
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        December 7, 2020 1:23pm
      - Flossie
        
        Okay Jack. Whatever YouTube says. I am only going by my lived experience.
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:40pm
      - giltee
        
        I must admit when I first went to OZ to work I tired of the relentless sheep shagger jokes and shite being directed at me. After time back in NZ then back to Oz this time round I haven’t struck it once. I like Ozzie’s and the fact that they’re proud and patriotic. I wish kiwis were the same and wouldn’t just accept all the crap the government and sovereignty Iwi force onto them.
        
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        December 7, 2020 4:07pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I took German in High School from the 6th form, having taken French throughout high school. The first time I went to Germany (1983) I called in to the campground office to find two middle-aged Germans having a beer.
      
      In my best (slightly nervous) school-boy German I greeted them and asked politely if they spoke English. No, one of them replied (in German), but we speak very good German. Hilarious! Wankers.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:46am
      - Flossie
        
        My daughter and I were overseas and enjoying a massage done by young ladies from India and the Philippines. They were aware our accents were a little different to what they were used to and when we told them we were from NZ they said that we spoke really good English !
        
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        December 7, 2020 12:15pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Germans….with sense of humour….hope you took a photo of this rare beast.
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:24pm
  - MCos
    
    English was the principle language in all the offices I worked in in Bangkok, whether the Thais liked it or not.
    Imagine not being able to get an office job here if you couldn’t speak some foreign language or other.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:59am
    - Fisiani
      
      I have an obvious and soft Scottish accent despite having lived in NZ for decades. Like many people with a distinctive accent it is galling how often people ignore what I am saying and then say “I love your accent”. It happens to many immigrants and is a sign of arrogance from people who do not realise that the world is bigger than NZ.
      
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      December 7, 2020 1:14pm
      - Aunty
        
        I used to get that a lot in America too “I just love your accent. Where are you from?” Drove me nuts until one day I snapped and replied, “My mother’s vagina”.
        
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        December 7, 2020 5:20pm
  - Libertysparks
    
    Similarly, I am the son of a Dutch immigrant who also came out after the war in Indonesia. He too spoke only English, even in the presence of other Dutch people. He totally assimilated, gave up his Dutch passport because NZ was where he wanted his children to be raised.
    Being married to an Asian immigrant, I see immigration as assimilation into the host country’s values and ways of life. It shouldnt be about the immigrant demanding the host country changing to adapt to their former country’s values and ways.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:12pm
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Then why are we forbidden from having a Kiwi Head of State, with the active agreement of most of the population?
  I’m a New Zealander. I love this country.
  I believe we should cast of our constitutional ties to the Crown.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:46am
  - fernglas
    
    And change the flag and the name.
    
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    December 7, 2020 8:54am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      may be compulsory to change the flag, as an independent republic we would have no rights to use the union jack.
      
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      December 7, 2020 2:27pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Open your eyes and take a look at the Republic of Fiji flag.
        
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        December 7, 2020 9:24pm
  - SGA
    
    In principle, yes MCos, but in practice I’m happy to muddle along with our quaint, largely symbolic, constitutional monarchy for the time being. A discussion about what the Republic of NZ would look like interests me more than pointing out that our current system is somewhat archaic.
    
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    December 7, 2020 8:59am
    - giltee
      
      I’m all in favour of it as long as it’d make the cursid treaty of waitangi nul-in-void.
      
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      December 7, 2020 6:23pm
  - Philview
    
    The current Labour Government have been promoting the Crown – Iwi Partnership. If the Partnership ends it is fairly obvious what follows next. The Maori Party are already demanding a separate Maori Parliament with a $20 billion annual budget.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:10am
  - Jack5
    
    New Zealand is a faux republic already, and the arrangement is good in many ways.
    
    First, from the illusion of being a monarchy, we get the stability that constitutional monarchies are noted for.
    
    Second, we are a faux monarchy, because the Queen is as far away as you can get on Earth, and costs our taxpayers virtually nothing. The monarch doesn’t interfere.
    
    Third it allows us to keep our layers of Government thin, reactive, and easy to negotiate. A New Zealand president would provide another tier to our government.
    
    Fourth, the lighter end of our media gets a feeling of “ours” when it uses the British Royal family’s actions and antics to titillate its more air-headed customers.
    
    Fifth, it keeps used politicians from boring us with platitudes in a new role as President. I’m thinking of Bolger, Shipley, Clark, Key.
    
    Sixth, it avoids the Woke going into decades of frenzy over diversity in a presidency, with calls for Maori, Pacific Islander, Chinese, Indian presidents; and debate over male v. female presidential numbers, LGBTQ presidents, and physically disabled presidents.
    
    Seventh, some New Zealanders would miss the Royal tours with scores able to handshake or hongi with a world personality.
    
    Eighth, this would set off Maori separatists who would say the Treaty of Waitangi was with the British Crown, and white people should now fuck off.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:29am
    - alloytoo
      
      What would happen if someone pointed out that the crown was paying their benefits?
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:55am
  - lifesgood
    
    A head of state could be anyone the govt chose, Nanaia Mahuta, Winston Peters, Chloe Swarbrick? Give me the Queen any day over that rabble.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:38am
  - Mobile Michael
    
    Elizabeth R is Queen of New Zealand. By the choice of New Zealand. If you become a New Zealand Citizen and were subject to Elizabeth R in another realm you still have to pledge to the Queen of New Zealand.
    
    If you think we should consider that choice, start a CIR with the question:
    
    Should the New Zealand Head of State be a President chose through a democratic process?
    
    If it gets 50%+1 vote we change.
    
    I prefer the advantages of the current constitutional arrangements – the Head of State appoints a representative, who is accountable to the Prime Minister (and, by convention, Parliament) and also to the Queen so must act with integrity to both institutions.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:43am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Other way around, isn’t it? The Prime Minister (and, by convention, Parliament) are accountable to the representative of the Head of State (Governor General).
      
      The GG can sack the government and dissolve Parliament, invites the leader of the winning party to form a government, and reads their legislative program at the opening of Parliament – among many other things.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:54am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Until this year I would have downvoted you as I was an ardent monarchist but having seen our next 2 kings and how out of touch they both are (lecturing about climate change as they fly off to their next engagement) with the reality most of us live with I can support them no longer.
    That said the thought of President Clark, Key or Ardern fills me with dread.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:10am
  - Frank the tank
    
    With Helen as president and a whole lot of troughers in an upper house feeding off the teet – no thanks.
    
    More bloated salaries, more bureaucrats, more free taxis/flights etc for no added benefit. Sounds like a left wing paradise.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:16am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Becoming a republic and having a President doesn’t necessitate having an “upper house”. New Zealand changed to a unicameral parliamentary system just over 70 years ago, and has no need to change that.
      
      In fact many would argue (me amongst them) that 120+ MPs for a country of 5 million is more than enough.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:59am
      - Durden
        
        Maybe we could split them. Lower House goes back to first past the post (FPP) system with electorate seats winners only. And the upper house can be staffed by the list MPs who come in based on party vote.
        
        Steve Todd will no doubt jump in and tell me why I am wrong 🙂
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:21pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    If you’re going to have a head of state with very significant powers who, by convention, chooses not to exercise those powers, it’s much better for it to be someone with little personal connection to NZ . It reduces the temptation. Can you imagine what Helen Clark might do with all the powers of the Queen?
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:20am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    We do have a Kiwi head of State – Willie Jackson.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:53am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    No way. It’s the only constitutional remnant we have left.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:57am
- Swifty
  
  Thanks cmm, I was going to comment on the Civic Square protest and will do so here.
  
  Yeah I was a little perplexed about this and I’m still not sure what my final thoughts are.
  
  These people are free to do as they wish I guess but I’m not sure about the idea of our public spaced being used to agitate on issues in other countries i.e. nothing to do with us. For decades we largely saw none of it (with 1981 a notable exception) but now I’m seeing it more and more; Palestine, BLM, Trump, Indian farmers etc etc).
  
  As far as this particular protest goes I don’t see it as anti-farmer I see it as pro-consumer. If I was a NZ reporter I’d have hot-footed down there and asked the protesters whether they would be happy with NZ taking protective measures against Indian trade? Would they be happy with us and other countries putting prohibitive tariffs, taxes and quota arrangements in on their exported goods and services? Or do they welcome free and fair trade?
  
  If they are happy with Indian cars, IT products, electronic goods and manufactured items arriving in our shops – then why do they insist our exporters have to compete in selling their goods into India against protected local markets?
  
  I’d also be asking them why, as you ask, should Indian taxpayers be pillaged to keep uncompetitive Indian farmers afloat? What is keeping the farmers from earning their own keep?
  
  These guys haven’t a leg to stand on. And if Ardern goes the same way as Trudeau then she’s a mug who is working against our interests.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:47am
  - SGA
    
    I’d also be asking them why, as you ask, should Indian taxpayers be pillaged to keep uncompetitive Indian farmers afloat? What is keeping the farmers from earning their own keep?
    
    Probably the same rationales that have led to “sheep retention schemes”, “wine lakes”, “butter mountains”, subsidies for leaving wheat and corn fields lie fallow, and so on throughout the world.
    
    You may not like any of them (fair enough), but it’s not as though India would stand out if did something to protect the long term interests of its agricultural sector.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:33am
    - Swifty
      
      It is in the long term interest of the Indian agricultural sector to get itself into a strong, profitable and sustainable position as quickly as possible – by identifying and focusing on what it does well and eliminating what it does not; exposing poor operators to market forces and identifying customers and markets where it can compete and create wealth for those involved.
      
      It’s in no-one’s interests for Indian agriculture to struggle on, producing poor quality or expensive products that no-one wants to buy, destroying wealth and viable only because it is propped up by politicians for their own political gain and, of course, with the money of hard-working Indian taxpayers.
      
      If of interest, it’s also increasingly clear that competitive winds blowing through the industry will lead to improved environmental outcomes.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:47am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      New Zealand hasn’t done any of that for years.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:54am
      - SGA
        
        True, but I’m not sure there been a need for it either, has there? The film industry has had a helping hand form time to time though, hasn’t it? The government pours money into things that might help the tourism industry (isn’t that one of rationales about government spending towards major sports events).
        
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        December 7, 2020 11:36am
- BeeJay
  
  The father in law of my younger daughter came to NZ from the UK 50 years ago, married a Kiwi, but has never become a Kiwi citizen. He travels everywhere on his UK passport, requiring visas in some countries where NZ Passport holders don’t! My daughter really has no idea why he won’t commit to becoming an NZ citizen and believes that he thinks just being a permanent resident of NZ is adequate even when he could have both UK and NZ passports?
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:55am
  - rockape
    
    I have Nz citizenship but still prefer to travel on a uk passport.
    
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    December 7, 2020 3:08pm
- Ford Prefect
  
  I came to NZ as a kid and raised with parents who always talked about how everything was done better “back home”. As an adult I emigrated back to the UK and found it quite a foreign land. I was intent on staying there long term but couldnt get over how much better NZ was and started referring NZ as “back home”. Eventually we’d had enough of the bureaucracy, traffic and class snobbery and came back. I think it was really therapeutic to see my birth country as it is as opposed to through my parents rose-coloured glasses, and voluntarily leave it for the country of my upbringing, NZ.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:07am
- mandk
  
  I’m with you on the issue of ‘home’.
  
  I came to NZ with a resident’s visa 17 years ago, and NZ was home from day one.
  
  But, strangely enough, my 81 year old NZ born father in law refers to England as home, even though he has never lived there.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:15am
  - Flossie
    
    I can identify with that. I had a great aunt, born here, as were her parents too (back in the 1800s) who referred constantly to Back Home, and none of them had ever been there to even visit. As a child I found this most confusing when visiting her home to hear her speak of Back Home!
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:28am
- JackRabbit
  
  cmm, thanks for that insight.
  I admire and respect your resolve and commitment!
  
  I was talking with someone the other day who has only been in NZ a few months, however it was clear he was a NZer in every aspect of his life. Like you, he had made that commitment.
  
  From my observation, the people that talk of “back home”, are examples of people who live in the past, instead of the now. Or people that are in NZ but would rather be “back home” but the crime is just too bad, or there is too much poverty.
  
  A lot of problems exist in life because a person is in one location or situation, but wants to be or dreams of being in another. Country / City / Job / Marriage / Relationship, etc.
  
  So they are never fully committed because they have “half a mind” to go back home, get a different job, etc.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:16am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Jacinda is a classic example of being “half a minder”, as are many of the current govt (and many of the wayward National MPs that left).
    
    Jacinda is a “half minder” because she doesn’t commit herself to understanding anything, including living by the values she thinks everyone else should live by.
    
    She pretends to understand business but never actually experienced it, let alone actually immersing herself in it.
    
    She is like a child that “knows all about” water – the sea, rivers, swimming pools, but has never been in any out of fear, and never even “put a toe in the water”, as the saying goes. She doesn’t understand, because she has never committed and experienced it first hand.
    
    When the govt found out about Covid last year, they had enough foresight (or greed), to agree to borrow $19Bn. But they didn’t have the full mindedness to tell the public about the virus.
    
    They banned the semi-automatics, but were only half-minded about it, taking guns off law abiding citizens, and letting the non lawabiding gangs keep theirs.
    
    The public were subjected to various levels of lock down and social distancing, yet the Princess and several of her stooges were flaunting the rules, and in many cases out giving hugs and selfies, with no regard to their own rules. “Half minders”.
    
    As a result of the cataclysmic impact on the NZ economy, everyone is supposed to really dig deep, economise and be in this together as a country. Like any organisation, management and admin functions are overheads. During any financial crisis you strip overheads and expenses to the bone, reducing as a percentage of revenue those overheads.
    
    For a country, it would mean slashing govt spending, stimulating and give a reason for people to shrug off the malaise, dig in, build business and jobs back up. This means slashing and flattening tax rates, and with it govt expenses and salaries. This is necessary to reduce resistance to working harder, or longer hours, or getting off the dole.
    
    With graduated income taxes or a high dole figure the herd mentality is that “If I work harder, I will see little extra money”, so why bother. Creating stimulus and incentives is important to prevent creeping apathy.
    
    Again, Jacinda was being a “half minder”, with the private sector carrying most of the load, increasing the slope of the tax hill, and not cutting costs in the govt, or getting rid of obvious freeloaders within her own party, or in govt infrastructure.
    
    Being on the cover of women’s mags, photo ops, hearing about her holidays, or flitting around the country or world spending money confirms that she is being a “half minder”.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:20am
- alloytoo
  
  I couldn’t agree more.
  
  As an immigrant I made a conscious decision to choose this country.
  
  That’s an all in choice.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:20am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Kiwis in London regularly fly NZ flags and proudly proclaim their NZ status. It’s just how immigration is, you never forget where you were from.
  
  That said Kiwi value and British values are very similar.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:25am
  - Jack5
    
    The language, too, the laws, the Parliamentary institutions, and at present, similar Woke dry rot.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:31am
  - Nickc2
    
    When I lived in Aust and became an Aust citizen, I supported Aust and anyone who played rugby or cricket against Australia.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:45am
    - giltee
      
      Today I was walking down Williams St in Northbridge, Perth and I was an extreme minority, the majority being Asians. Almost none of them were speaking English and you could be forgiven for thinking you were in Asia. I respect anyone that integrates into their new country but with some races and religions they don’t and bring their way of life both good and bad with them.
      
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      December 7, 2020 6:42pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    As someone who lived in the UK and Europe for 21 years, and am a former President of the New Zealand Society in the UK, your post is simplistic.
    
    Generally, there are 3 groups of Kiwi, Aussie, Saffa and Canadians in the UK. They are:
    
    1. Those on 2 year work visas (they are most commonly the group you refer to). Their mission is to travel, party and get la*d all over Europe before returning to NZ. To them they NZ is everything, they advocate NZ first and foremost, but often they are the worst advertisements for anywhere, because their ignorance is often front and central to most of what they say and do.
    
    2. Then there are those on a 4 year grand parent Visa. They are happy to work in the UK, but most still have the goal of returning to NZ.
    
    3. Then there is the 3rd group, these are those of us who have the rights to permanent residency in both NZ and the UK/Europe. I was part of this group. Many of this group were born in NZ, but have now lived more in the UK than NZ. These people are often well connected in the UK establishment, but remain positive advocates for NZ, and wear black and wave the NZ flag on any chance of an occasion. Generally, this group are not your loud mouth boorish immigrants. Because after all, they have a passport, suitcases, credit cards and know where to catch the silver bird back to Auckland.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:54am
- Brian McDonald
  
  What “riles” me (well, somewhat) CMM is people migrating to NZ then lining up against the original people of New Zealand. Particularly when those arrivals have immigrated from countries where colonisation has failed and become a force against them. Then work to cultivate the same disharmony here that caused them to leave their own country.
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:01am
  - Jack5
    
    Brian McDonald, you are obviously referring to Afrikaaners.
    
    Surely, if they had been pro-apartheid, they would welcome moves towards a neo-apartheid political system in New Zealand, such as race-based voting for local bodies.
    
    Brian, you are hypocritical if you both defend apartheid-like racial separatism in New Zealand and then attack those who have supported this practice overseas.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:07am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Don’t be a Drama Queen Jack. My first experience were pommie unionists as a teenager that needed to learn kiwis are not easily stood over, but more recently the few Afrikaaners that confuse NZ with what took off from and don’t accept NZ culture warts and all. Particularly vocal and heroic on FB unfortunately. The point you appear to be trying to make was recently referenced by Peter Dunne as why National is in the crap – shallow diversity in a changing country.
      
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      December 7, 2020 4:50pm
      - Jack5
        
        Brian McD: the National line-up for the election was diverse. It was the voters who trimmed off the diversity.
        
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        December 7, 2020 8:38pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  What riles me is immigrants objecting to the way of life here including objections to Maori. Especially when they have come from countries were race relations have clearly failed.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:26am
  - rockape
    
    I just object to the attitude that prevails against people like me who arrived 20 years ago and get blamed for the sins of the early immigrants who ripper NZ owned Maori off.
    
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    December 7, 2020 3:13pm
- mark15
  
  Well,after 7 years here I disagree.
  Every day this country becomes more like the shithole I left.
  Pommy gun laws,pommy police,pommy worksafe directors,muslim,gay and tranny MPs deciding how you live and what you talk about.
  I might go ‘home’,at least the house would be made of building materials.
  
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  December 7, 2020 5:36pm
Yvette

Ardern entered the escalating row between China and Australia, formally expressing concern about “disinformation” issued by a senior Chinese foreign affairs official on social to highlight the damning war crimes report in Australia.

The doctored image of an Australian soldier holding a knife to the throat of an Afghan has plummeted the two countries’ relationship into what commentators say is the “lowest point in 50 years”.
‘Kiwis bleat like Aussie sheep but don’t condemn Afghan killings’ ran the headline on China’s state-run media Global Times website the day after New Zealand made its statement.
“Ardern has demonstrated that New Zealand will not stop playing double standard tricks the West uses so often,” reads the article. “This is also part of the so-called Western values – the freedom to be hypocrites.

In the latest statements, spokesperson Hua Chunying said: “Australia and its a few allies, instead of repenting on themselves, accused China of disinformation. I wonder if they can explain what disinformation is, who should be the one to define disinformation, and what they mean by human rights? Is it their shared value to pin the blame to others just to whitewash themselves? In this sense, the caricature is a mirror showing the hypocrisy and double standards of a few people in these few countries.” [1]

However – Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern believes New Zealand is ending 2020 with its relationship with China as strong as when the year began.
New Zealand, China in ‘a mature relationship’ – Jacinda Ardern – claims the headline

“I wonder if they can explain what disinformation is …. “
Is it not on the Chinese that Ardern is supposed to be playing double standard tricks
– not New Zealanders?

[1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/432236/new-zealand-china-in-a-mature-relationship-jacinda-ardern-on-row-with-australia
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December 7, 2020 8:05am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  My understanding of a “mature relationship” seems to differ from that espoused by our PM.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:42am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Silly woman. (juvenile.) Does she think China will treat us any better than any other country which expresses our distaste of it’s policies.
  She should know better being head of the bully Part in Govt. They don’t take “no” for an answer and she throws her power around as faux Arden R. (Cancelled Taranaki and determining Policing.) China is bigger and they bully harder and we are very small fry (1/300 of their size) but like the cleaner fish we need the whale for food.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:12am
- NoCash
  
  While I agree that the Chinese tweet was a cheap shot and tactless, it wasn’t disinformation though, after all the ADF report does allege the throat slitting of two 14 y.o. Afghan civilians. Why Cindy had to weigh in is puzzling.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:39am
  - giltee
    
    The Chinese CCP are great at deflecting attention away from their own horrendous treatment of their own citizens. Hundreds of thousands, millions persecuted for their religion, murdered for organ harvesting, imprisoned/women raped/sterilised because they’re Muslim/ their children taken to be put in re-education schools, Tibet/ forced culture eradication, anyone speaking out against the CCP disappears etc etc. The CCP is an evil force that is intent on eradicating anyone who has the audacity to criticise them and a countries sovereign border makes no difference to their aggression or bullying. The more we stand up to them the better because they need to be stopped.
    
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    December 7, 2020 6:56pm
Benedict Yu

Why did the police not arrest these people? Being allowed to protest does not mean you are allowed to block a railway line for severl hours.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/9-hour-coal-train-protest-creates-%E2%80%98-positive-moment-change%E2%80%99
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December 7, 2020 8:08am
- kowtow
  
  The reporting is very one sided.
  ‘Despite limited financial resources, the protesters had made their point successfully, he said.’
  
  yeah when you have the Media Pardy giving you such wide , uncritical coverage…….This is on the front page of the ODT .
  
  meanwhile this small group of unaccountable extremists get to disrupt and cost hardworking and struggling businesses at great cost , not to mention wasting police resources , with nary a say so as to cost.
  
  It would have been nice had the Media Pardy shown a photo or two of the soap dodgers alighting their barely roadworthy diesel powered vans for their journey back to where ever they came from…….
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:05am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Reminder to Ardern
  HOLD YOUR TONGUE
  Your JOB is to represent NZ, not to use your office as a platform for your own personal views.
  If you want to improve our status in the world (not just your own profile)
  I suggest you work on the CER relationship with Australia, that you seem hell bent on damaging.
  Refugees
  NZ citizen rights
  etc etc
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    IMO the Australia relationship was materially damaged by that stunt jacinda pulled with the lecture about sending New Zealand criminals back.
    
    Australia holds all the cards in this relationship. It is only a matter of time before the absolute right of New Zealanders to live there is altered.
    
    The two countries are on very different paths that will cause an increasing gap betwen gdp per capita of the two countries. Another 40 years and it will be like USA and Mexico.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:08am
    - Jack5
      
      More likely another 20 years.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:15am
    - Ian Boag
      
      the absolute right of New Zealanders to live there
      
      As guest workers – with access to medicare and no other taxpayer funded benefits, although (naturally) full tax is paid.
      
      Upgrading to PR or citizen is a long, hard and expensive process. Many of the NZers over there on this basis would have no show of ever getting either.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:31am
      - Flossie
        
        Dead right Ian.
        
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        December 7, 2020 10:49am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      “IMO the Australia relationship was materially damaged by that stunt jacinda pulled with the lecture about sending New Zealand criminals back.”
      and
      IMO the Australia relationship was materially damaged by that stunt chris Hipkins pulled with the interference in Australian politics over the Nationality incident.
      
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      December 7, 2020 10:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s taken a lot of time and work to get a reasonable outcome. My son who’s lived there 45 years has only in recent years had the privileges of long his long term recognised.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:16am
- backster
  
  Try risking your life to save others and the Health and Safety Boffins will hold intensive and expensive research from their office to persecute you.It worked at White Island. Where are they now?
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:43am
  - artemisia
    
    The petition – Stop The Prosecution of the Helicopter Pilots Who Saved Lives on Whakaari/White Island – over on change.org is close to 100,000 signatures.
    
    Now if they were in crayon there might be some action.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:52pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    AFAIK the prosecution for asbestos management has nothing to do with the White Island thing.
    
    I don’t have a lot of time for WorkSafe and I think a lot of the asbestos rules are grossly OTT, but them’s the rules.
    
    If WorkSafe/the police said “you broke the law, but on the other hand you later did something (unrelated) that was brave and good so that’s OK” …..
    
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    December 7, 2020 1:40pm
- kris
  
  “Protesters said that as the train was travelling at very low speed towards the crossing north of the railway station, shortly before 7.30am, a group of flag-carrying protesters advanced close to the tracks to alert the driver.
  When the train stopped, another group of protesters locked themselves to the tracks in front of the train, preventing it from moving, and later a group of seven protesters, carrying placards, climbed aboard two nearby coal wagons.”
  
  I guess this wouldn’t happen if trains were automated, and just kept going….
  
  “The protest ended peacefully on Saturday afternoon, protesters moving away and police confirming one person, in the protest group in front of the train, had received a warning, but no-one was detained beyond a few minutes, or charged.”
  
  Why was no-one charged? If police can’t do their bloody job, then they should be charged as well.
  
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  December 7, 2020 2:41pm
fightingtemeraire

cmm Some years back I went back to the UK and was asked “Isnt it nice to be home??”
To which I replied “Nz is my home and I have lived there longer than I did in the UK” Should have seen the look on their faces.
Arrived at LHR and got in the queue for Commonwealth and other passports. Handed over the passport and it said that I was born in London.

The rather snooty female passport Officer said “You can have a British Passport you know”
I said “I dont want one thanks”

You should have seen th e look on her face. If looks could kill.
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December 7, 2020 8:11am
- rockape
  
  I keep my British passport rather than have an NZ one. Who would you rather come and get you the British forces or woke Kiwi ones?
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:04am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    My wife has both
    The only reason
    She gets to use the “British passport holders” gate on entry to the UK….the lines are shorter.
    Otherwise she’s more Kiwi than many born here.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:55am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Oh yeah, the Tommies are going to come and get you, 100%.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:09pm
  - Jack5
    
    Perhaps the Aussie ones. Their SAS doesn’t muck around, does it?
    
    But seriously, what’s been going on with the NZ Army and Australian Army? We used to synchronise our gear with that of the Aussies.
    
    However, two years ago we dropped the 1960s-origin technology Steyr bullpup rifles for a development of the M16 (1950s technology originally), of which NZ bought more than 9,000.
    
    Meanwhile, Australia, has created a new version of the Steyr, the F90, and built 30,000. It’s still a bullpup design.
    
    Who was right on this? Do the Aussies expect to fight a different war from NZ any time soon?
    
    Still I don’t think NZ ever adopted the Australian submachine gun, the Owen, which international firearms enthusiasts in retrospect rate quite highly, especially relative to the British Sten gun.
    
    For those with time to view on a quiet Monday,here’s a North American tries out the Aussies’ Owen gun:
    
    https://youtu.be/O1aZuAbgjGY
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:18pm
    - rockape
      
      The stun gun or later the sterling sub machine gun. Was on for what it did. Main thing was it was really simple and cheap to manufacture. Up to 200 meters pretty effective.
      
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      December 7, 2020 3:54pm
      - Nickc2
        
        That thing was a ‘scattergun’. It was designed as a close combat weapon. If a full magazine was fired across the road at a telegraph pole, the user would be lucky if two rounds hit the pole. Jams were part and parcel of the stupid things. The discharge of spent cartridges were not kind to left-handed users.
        
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        December 7, 2020 9:00pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  “Nz is my home and I have lived there longer than I did in the UK”
  especially when you remove your childhood years,
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:39am
iMP

If Biden isn’t even aware of the FDA’s detailed vaccine rollout plans, that have been around for a year, and

despite the FDA cooperating with 64 different agencies, and

Biden saying “we’ve seen no plan,” –ie he is politicising this and ‘strawman bagging’ Trump on vaccine (Operation Warp Speed was Trump’s early plan to get vaccine by now)– then

what hope is there of Biden engaging the new Chinese aggression with any competence?
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December 7, 2020 8:13am
- RW Capitalist
  
  and in our part of the world
  Our very own
  
  Influenza Pandemic Response Plan c2017
  
  Clear and easy to find on the Ministry of Health’s web site.
  Why was it NEVER even referred to or mentioned by,
  The Govt.
  The MSM
  and in their willingness to not “rock the boat” or even criticize this clown car govt.s incompetent response to this “pandemic”,……National Party.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:37am
- Nickc2
  
  I don’t think Biden will be POTUS for too long. Nancy Pelosi already has plans afoot to amend US Constitution Amendment 25 which infers in part what happens if the POTUS is incapable of performing his duties. If/when Harris succeeds Biden and AOC or another leftist becomes VPOTUS, the so called free world will IMO be on a slippery slope towards Socialism/Communism.
  IMO, NZ has already embarked on that slippery slope and nothing to date indicates otherwise.
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:13am
  - Juliet2554
    
    he won’t be POTUS at all
    
    7 6
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    December 7, 2020 11:05am
    - Nickc2
      
      I hope you are right Juliet.
      
      6 2
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      December 7, 2020 12:35pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Fever dreams.
    
    Paracetamol might help.
    
    2 0
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    December 7, 2020 3:28pm
    - Nickc2
      
      It would appear that you have experimented taking that stuff anally.
      
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      December 7, 2020 9:12pm
- Fletch
  
  Biden will be totally compliant to the Chinese. He will fold like a cheap card table. He and his son were already doing deals for the Communist Chinese to have access to Biden. The Chinese even got access to U.S military tech through the Biden deals.
  
  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/23/code-name-project-hanson-insider-documents-reveal-how-hunter-biden-associates-helped-chinese-military-contractor-acquire-michigan-dual-use-manufacturer/
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:44am
artemisia

If New Zealand is lucky, some of the Hong Kong citizens heading for the UK will eventually relocate here. There is an option of UK citizenship after 5 years and many will take that up.
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December 7, 2020 8:15am
- igm
  
  They will not be allowed here by this government . . . they don’t wear her preferred attire, work hard, are very affable, and successful.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:12am
  - artemisia
    
    Don’t forget plenty will be rich pricks. Can’t have that. (Seen the price of HK real estate?)
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:36am
- kowtow
  
  Can’t see the Conservative voting base being too happy with hundreds of thousands of visas being flicked out like that . Bare in mind there’d be no test on whether those visas go to Commie lovers or Democracy lovers .
  
  Meanwhile Fijian soldiers who served in HM Forces get the bums’ rush and many celebs campaign to keep West Indian rapists and murderers from deportation.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:14am
- ISeeRed
  
  Why would they want to immigrate to a tiny failing welfare state near the bottom of the developed world (figuratively and literally)?
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:05am
- Nickc2
  
  If China honours the agreement.
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:15am
- Paulie_
  
  I worked with a Bangladeshi who stayed in NZ until he and his wife got NZ citizenship, and then promptly moved to Australia. Bloody good, too, as he was one of the most arrogant bastards I have ever met. We put the table tennis table back into his prayer room.
  
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  December 7, 2020 3:03pm
  - Jack5
    
    Through the Tasman back door to Australia.
    
    How long before the Aussies shut it?
    
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    December 7, 2020 8:35pm
Paulus

On Visas – how many of the families involved in the Christchurch Massacre have been granted, irrespective, Visas or even Citizenship as Ardern indicated after the event.
How many who came for the sentencing, and now the report, have yet to go back to where they came as per their special visas ?
And can we assume that tomorrow before the last day of Parliament she intends to extend considerable taxpayers funds to these people, many of whom have been well looked after more than many New Zealanders.
Have already heard that whatever they get it will not be enough.
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December 7, 2020 8:16am
- sooty
  
  Along with, how many didn’t go back!
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:26am
- Albert_Ross
  
  If anybody on Kiwiblog is in a position actually to know the answer to this, it would be grossly unprofessional of them to provide that answer here.
  
  So why are you asking it here, rather than putting an Official Information Act request to Immigration?
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:30am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Grossly unprofessional to ask questions now, is it?
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:06am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Not what I said, as anybody with a modicum of basic literacy would be able to see.
      
      I said it would be grossly unprofessional to answer the question on this forum.
      
      Asking isn’t unprofessional, but it is an idiotic and pointless waste of time on a forum where nobody will be able to provide an answer.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:01am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      reading comprehension fail
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:10am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    OIAs lodged many weeks back have not produced any response.
    
    6 1
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    December 7, 2020 11:26am
hmmokrightitis

Morons moaning about fake money being thrown into a crowd – including one who traveled by bus to Auckland from Wellington.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The first clue was the fact that he went by loser cruiser.

Seriously – what have we become?
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December 7, 2020 8:19am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Seriously – what have we become?’
  
  South Seas Cuba.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Sad her, but Cuba is quite well civilised now.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:01am
Maggie Pie

ONLY IN AMERICA…. 🙁

You may recall the name ‘George Floyd’….the petty burglar, ex=con and drug addict, who died unexpectedly while in the process of being arrested for passing counterfeit $20 notes?
Well, he now features in an ‘Exhibit of Remembrance’ at the Holocaust Memorial in Florida!

Well, *NEWS FLASH*. The Holocaust Museum was created to remind visitors why we must “never forget” the starvation, rape, torture and gassing of more than 6 million Jews.
It should not be used as a memorial of an individual like George Floyd after an unfortunate run-in with the law.

Shame on the Holocaust center for thinking otherwise.

https://twitter.com/DanODonnellShow/status/1330350970518302722
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December 7, 2020 8:22am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “…..the petty burglar, ex=con and drug addict, who died unexpectedly while in the process of being arrested for passing counterfeit $20 notes?”
  I did wonder why his interaction with the Police went the way it did.
  I must be exceptional…my few interactions with the Police have always been polite and respectful…on both sides…go figure.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:29am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And not to mention poking a gun into a pregnant woman’s tummy while robbing her.
    
    47 5
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    December 7, 2020 8:54am
  - alloytoo
    
    For the most part I think the cops were unaware that he was doped to the gills with fentanyl and that his lungs were filling up.
    
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    December 7, 2020 9:26am
  - Fletch
    
    Police body cams show him acting erratically. The police even asking those around him why he is acting like this. He wouldn’t even get into the police car because he said he was claustrophobic and asked if he could lie on the ground.
    
    Meanwhile, a coroners report says he basically died of a drug overdose. He had a “fatal level of fentanyl” in his system – his lungs were filled with fluid and three times the size of what they should be.
    
    https://spectator.org/minnesota-v-derek-chauvin-et-al-the-prosecutions-dirty-little-secret/
    
    Sure, perhaps the cops should not have kneeled on him, but that seems to be a common restraining procedure they are used to using and which normally doesn’t cause any harm…
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:52am
igm

Imagine the problems this would solve in NZ.
https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/12/06/mp-calls-out-forced-abortions-on-uyghur-women-in-china/
People would need to work for a living, not lie in bed all day breeding (for payment), no housing shortages; in fact we would once again be a prosperous and safe country to inhabit.
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December 7, 2020 8:26am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think someone needs a forced lobotomy.
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:55am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Let me guess ahh Mikenmildagain
    
    8 3
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    December 7, 2020 11:23am
- Jack5
  
  We have scarcely any Uighurs in New Zealand. Just who are you suggesting be the genocide victims, IGM? The unemployed?
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:13am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Tat seems to be his suggestion – forced abortions for people he doesn’t like, ie every woman who is not a ‘principal ratepayer’.
    
    3 3
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    December 7, 2020 11:11am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Why does ‘my body my choice’ get abortions protected and funded by others, but when it comes to masks and vaccines, ‘my body my choice’ gets ignored?
      
      6 4
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      December 7, 2020 11:28am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Maybe because you can’t get someone pregnant by sneezing on them?
        
        Also it’s worth noting that neither the wearing of masks nor the taking of vaccines is mandated by law as compulsory on this country (yet).
        
        5 1
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        December 7, 2020 1:22pm
- Mike22240
  
  Have you looked into how China is treating Uyghur’s? It mirrors Hitler’s work so unless you Han-Chinese I wouldn’t recommend encouraging it.
  
  11 2
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  December 7, 2020 9:33am
- emmess
  
  Can I just get a bit of clarification?
  Are you saying that you are in favour of forced abortions?
  
  11 1
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  December 7, 2020 9:51am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I can’t see how anybody can ever be in favor of forced abortions. That’s a sickening thought.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:29am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      igm is used to expressing his sickening thoughts.
      
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      December 7, 2020 1:31pm
Nukuleka

cmm: I can understand your annoyance about the demonstration by local Indians expressing their anger about agricultural policies in their ‘home country’ but to then generalise about kiwis referring to their birth country as ‘home’ is a nonsense and rather reduces your comments to little more than an idiosyncratic rant. Immigrants may well commit 100% to New Zealand but still have an emotional attachment to the place of their birth. It’s perfectly human and perfectly acceptable. We should remind ourselves that up till the 60s the people who built modern day New Zealand and created our great nation would frequently refer to the UK as ‘home’ even though they had never even visited there, let alone been born there. It may seem quaint and old-fashioned to our more cynical 21st century eyes but there can be no doubting their commitment to the country they lived in- New Zealand. I have two ‘homes’- the UK where I was born and NZ. What’s the problem?
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December 7, 2020 8:35am
- MCos
  
  My mother, who was English, always referred to England as ‘home’ when we were kids; so did Dad whose grandfather was an Irish migrant. I think Mum’s friend next door did too and she was born in NZ.
  Mum had no inclination to ever move back to England. She went ‘home’ a few times to see the family, but was always happy to be back home in NZ.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:09am
  - namron
    
    If you checked a dictionary and checked what the official meaning of “home” is, you would see that “home” is where you feel it is!!
    “home”- the place where one lives, belongs or was born.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:17am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The UK shipping Companies, Port Line, Shaw Savill etc were known as “The Home Boats”
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:13am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  For my birthday I was given a newspaper from my birth date. 1948. I noticed that whenever home was referred to as Great Britain it was always spelled Home.
  Quaint, eh?
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:15am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I disagree. I would never refer to Taiwan as “home” even though I have attachments to Taiwan.
  
  If I am asked “Where are you from?”… I always say New Zealand. That usually results in awkward silence. If pressed I explain further.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:29am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I don’t understand what you are disagreeing with. Some people have two homes, some have one, some have none. I don’t feel any obligation of loyalty to NZ even though I have lived here all my life.
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:30am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hubby is often asked where he is from..
    Folks seem a bit bewildered when he replies Palmerston North.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:14am
    - SGA
      
      That’s understandable. Not many people willing admit to being from Palmerston North 🙂
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:23am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Alex was your father in law? It’s almost as unusual a name as “Boag” …. 🙂
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:26am
      - Jack5
        
        It wasn’t originally Boagan, was it Ian? ?
        
        3 2
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        December 7, 2020 11:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:14pm
emmess

What it is like to live with a fact checker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stRRtPkvc0
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December 7, 2020 8:42am
hullkiwi

Two files from only government and the bureaucracy can be this inept (and be before people gloat or down tick, this is aimed at governments of all hues).

File 1.
Yesterday, the Royal Commission Report into the Christchurch Shootings was released to family members of victims. The report will be public on line tomorrow. However, if you are the next of kin of a victim living abroad, you couldn’t receive a copy because of security reasons, or in the words of an email from the Office of the Prime Minister, “early release of the report would be to those next of kin most affected….”. This was text read out on the AM Show this morning by the niece of a victim living in the UK on behalf her aunt, a next of kin of a victim. Do people not think to read what they have written before they hit send?

In the 21st Century, to get such a report securely to someone resident in the UK is easy. FFS, MFAT & other agencies occupy 4 floors of NZ House in SW1 London! Clearly, they are all too busy working out how to spend their tax free incomes to be concerned about getting a report to a victim!

File 2
This morning we also learn that some 9 years after the Key Government’s Minister of Health launched the Smoke Free by 2025, there is still no official government policy on how this ambitious target will be achieved. Before, my National/Act allies start laughing at the hapless David Clark etc, reflect on this, preeceeding Clark there were 6 years of Tony Ryall and Jonathan Coleman as Ministers of Health. So, it is not just Labour, but also National who are guilty of bold PR level policy statements with target dates in the future, and then they shelve the problem and leave the problem for somebody else and another day.

This is an example of politics being front and centre in everything an MP does, rather than remembering that once elected and appointed as a Minister, that person is there to be a “chairman” of a specific arm of government acting on behalf of all New Zealanders. Unfortunately, we witness (from politicians of all sides) on a daily basis an approach to government that is more akin to permanent electioneering, which sometimes yields good government, but more often not!
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December 7, 2020 8:43am
- Paulus
  
  Am I wrong but New Zealand Government staff working in any capacity overseas is taxed as if they are New Zealand domiciled resident ?
  My Military family were I understood ?
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:06am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    When I was stationed offshore my pay was certainly taxed as if I was still in NZ…!
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:31am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Paulus, I think you are correct. All MFAT staff (foreign affairs and trade) from Wellington (not those recruited locally), military, police staff and a few other government posts were officially “diplomatic staff”. They were tax free abroad, but not in NZ. This also entitled them to tax free shopping for high end goods or goods that would leave the UK. There would be tax owed in NZ.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:54am
  - Ian Boag
    
    My understanding is (was) that they got their NZ salary – taxed at NZ rates – plus a “location allowance” which was obviously higher in New York than Apia …. Not sure what happened re tax on the location allowance.
    
    OTOH there was a funny one where you could be offshore getting paid by NZ govt … if you stayed out of the country for 12 months then you were deemed to be non-resident with no tax to pay. I was a uni lecturer on sabbatical when I did this, but it was nearly 40 years ago ….
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:12pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Correct. NZ Servicmen are also taxed at NZ rates when deployed to combat zones. The only nation to do so to the best of my knowledge. Aust. don’t do it.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:27pm
    - rockape
      
      Uk forces the same, although in certain theatres we got a small allowance.
      
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      December 7, 2020 3:57pm
Swifty

Oh dear.

RIP Walter Williams.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/artcarden/2020/12/03/in-memoriam-walter-e-williams-1936-2020/?sh=166a18b38fe4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5TS8QUJWXo&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJE8AAvsHIc

A great and long-standing friend of Thomas Sowell.
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December 7, 2020 8:49am
MCos

Tweet of the day – so far
“45 days until Republicans start blaming Biden for the 281,000 Americans dead from covid.”
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December 7, 2020 8:50am
- mikenmildagain
  
  That won’t be the only thing they’ll be blaming him for.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:12am
Maggy Wassilieff

I’m getting good at seeing how the media marginalise certain folks in our society.

Check out this story on growing medicinal cannabis near Blenheim.

All the pictured white chaps get their names mentioned in the photo captions, but the Islander chap doing the hard graft is “a worker”.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/432268/new-zealand-farmers-prepare-to-export-best-cannabis-in-the-world
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December 7, 2020 8:50am
- Jack5
  
  Migrant workers imported to grow cannabis.
  
  The migrant worker scheme began as a foreign aid project. Why don’t they just grow the drug in the Melanesian islands? Vanuatu has legalised cannabis for medical use.
  
  Is cannabis not a tropical crop?
  
  https://www.weedworldmagazine.org/2019/07/25/best-places-in-the-world-to-naturally-grow-cannabis/
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  At $USD100/gm, Cannabis without THC is enormously expensive. It make a great tax object.
  CBD is not accorded a ranking status in the natural anti-inflammatories or plant produced polyphenols cheaply and readily available in NZ. Some are wowsome and King Tut had their seeds in his tomb. I can walk because of them.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:30am
  - Jack5
    
    Kevin, King Tut died at the age of 19.
    
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    December 7, 2020 1:42pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The seeds were for his afterlife, or so they say.
      
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      December 7, 2020 3:06pm
- Jaundiced
  
  I suspect you’re looking for racism where none exists. The ‘white’ fellows named in the photo are the people who set up the business. The ‘islander’ chap is indeed a hired ‘worker’.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Na, I was pointing out our CLASS system.
    
    Bugger the workers, eh?
    
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    December 7, 2020 2:29pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you something else…..if I do ever get a Llama to keep at the farm, I’m totally gonna name it ‘Dalai’
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December 7, 2020 8:51am
- mikenmildagain
  
  But what would you name a pet magpie?
  
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  December 7, 2020 8:57am
- sooty
  
  You are a treat Maggie Pie!
  What are you like at drawing, because it wouldn’t be hard to out do the newspapers scriblers! You out do all of our comedian’s!
  You should be on tv!
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:39am
I remember when

Forty one percent of black-owned businesses in the United States shuttered up permanently between February and April this year.
This compared to 17% of white-owned companies, exacerbating long-running racial disparities.
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December 7, 2020 9:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

The UN issues word-soup sop to the Rohingya refugees being resettled on a low-lying, shifting sandbank in the Bay of Bengal.

https://reliefweb.int/report/bangladesh/press-statement-united-nations-statement-relocation-rohingya-refugees-bhasan-char

The “island” of Bhasan Char is only 14 years old! (formed in 2006) and maximum elevation is 2.8m above sea level.

Storm surges in the Bay of Bengal can reach 10m.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52718531
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December 7, 2020 9:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  These are the refugees expelled from Myanmar by the government led by Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung Sun Suu Kyi.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Indeed…
    
    and the inheritors of a faded colonial regime.
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep19683?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents
    
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    December 7, 2020 10:17am
    - Jack5
      
      If Burma was still a colony, would the Rohingya be on the move?
      
      The British in empire days could be severe on uprisings, to the point of dropping gas from biplanes, but did they drive people out?
      
      Other victimised Burma minorities, the Karen (a quarter of them Christians) and the Kachin people would probably have a better deal in a British colony.
      
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      December 7, 2020 11:02am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Did they drive people out?
        How about looking up the New Zealand Settlements Act 1863?
        
        2 5
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        December 7, 2020 12:16pm
      - Jack5
        
        I wasn’t aware the British colonialists drove Maori out of New Zealand? Details?
        
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        December 7, 2020 1:38pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        No, the Brits didn’t drive the Rohingya out of Burma/ Myanmar… Many arrived during the period of British Colonial rule…but when the Brits retreated from Burma, the Japanese and the Burmese turned on the Rohingya.
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:44pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Does driving people off their own land not count, Jack? Do they have to be driven out of the country to count as victims?
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:50pm
  - Paulie_
    
    These are the illegal migrants who harboured Islamic jihad fighters in armed rebellion against the Burmese government.
    
    There, fixed it for you mm
    
    5 0
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    December 7, 2020 3:13pm
- kowtow
  
  TBH Bangladesh is little more than a sand bank at the mouth of the Ganges , albeit a bloody big one.
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:20am
  - Paulie_
    
    Why don’t they build dykes like the Dutch. It works better than trying to reclaim the sea by pouring plastic waste into it.
    
    3 0
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    December 7, 2020 3:15pm
Sarkozygroupie

Has the MSM reported on this anywhere?

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cctv-video-georgia-poll-workers-sparks-election-fraud-outrage
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December 7, 2020 9:16am
- SB2
  
  Usually MSM don’t report fake allegations but Zero hedge will report any nonsense deep state related conspiracy theory including spurous claims of voter fraud .
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:25am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    The video was faked….a hollywood production?
    After observers were sent home, saying they were ending counting for the evening, come back at 8:30am… Multiple affidavits (ie legal court documents, subject to perjury laws and punishable by jail) confirming this.
    Promptly followed by an unobserved count (illegal) and a massive spike in Biden votes.
    Since the premises were rented to count votes
    The staff were paid to count votes
    ie the only purpose was to count votes.
    What were they doing if not, counting votes, from several unofficial containers (suitcases), not ballot boxes (presumably sealed for integrity), unobserved by official scrutineers.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:35am
    - SGA
      
      hmmm… this tells a different story…
      https://myfox8.com/news/surveillance-video-of-suitcases-filled-with-ballots-breeds-false-fraud-claims-in-georgia/
      
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      December 7, 2020 4:43pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        — Surveillance video of ballot processing on election night in Atlanta is fueling a false social media narrative of “suitcases filled with ballots”
        
        1. They were only brought out AFTER scrutineers had left….which is illegal under Georgia law.
        
        hidden under a cloth-covered table and tallied without supervision, even as top state officials confirm election workers followed standard procedure.
        
        2. No they didn’t
        
        The video showed regular ballot containers on wheels — not suitcases — and both a state investigator and an independent monitor observed counting until it was done for the night, finding no evidence of improper ballots, state and county officials said on Friday.
        3. there were NO independent scrutineers, they sent them home.
        
        4. the “ballot containers”…were not sealed, you can clearly see, they were removed from their hiding place (why were they UNDER the table to begin with) and opened with no impediment (seal) needed to be broken.
        
        PS I have been a scrutineer, no ballot box is opened without scrutineers present and the seals are cut while they watch, they are then emptied onto an empty table in full view of the scrutineers before being handed to the counters for counting.
        This video shows that NONE of these things happened.
        In fact you can see counters just reaching into each suitcase and taking out hand fulls of ballots to count.
        
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        December 7, 2020 6:41pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Get over it. The USA is done for. They won’t tolerate Trump being re-elected nor accept that nursing home recluse Biden.
    
    Part of the issues are when lawyers mention fraud they are dealing with the proof of intention to deceive, others use the word fraud to describe its affects. Showing the latter is usually much more easy than intent.
    
    This matter may not yet be settled in the Courts. The evidence and timing may not render it judicable. The outcome of the Electoral College is indeterminate at this stage and they might refer it back to Congress.
    
    The President is potentially faced with an unsatisfactory outcome. He may resort to The Declaration of Independence which has been argued to provide him power to declare a State of Emergency and prepare for fresh elections.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:45am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The declaration of independence has nothing to do with declaring a state of emergency.
      
      5 6
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      December 7, 2020 12:14pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I have read contrary legal opinion.
        The matter’s way out of our hands but I venture that Biden as President would unleash more potential difficulties for the world than Trump.
        
        The aims and intent of the unelected World Economic Forum are not to be desired.
        
        12 4
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        December 7, 2020 12:35pm
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        I assume you mean the U.S. Constitution. Looking for something about a state of emergency in The Declaration of Independence would be like looking for references to ‘partnership’ in the Treaty of Waitangi.
        
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        December 7, 2020 12:54pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        True Nigel. I’m trying to help Kev here, but it’s an uphill battle
        
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        December 7, 2020 1:33pm
    - WaynelSexton
      
      I think you mean Trump might invoke the Insurrection Act
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act_of_1807
      
      4 1
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      December 7, 2020 1:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I doubt he knows what he means.
        
        5 4
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        December 7, 2020 1:33pm
    - Durden
      
      The goal post has been shifted by the progressives and their stacked courts as they always do.
      
      Apparently it is not enough too “prove” that there was fraud or cast doubt i.e. likely fraud. It has to be “proven” to be large enough to have been able to change the election result.
      
      By cutting any cases off at the pass using the above logic, they stop any further investigations/prosecutions, and remove any chances of delving deeper into the fraud under oath in a public court to find how deep it has been or what else have been done.
      
      The burden of proof being placed on the Republicans is very high. They have too prove fraud and find that to the extent that it overturns the outcome .
      
      The justice system in the US is fucked. Once fraud is proven it should be up to the government machinery and FBI, police investigators etc to further investigate and disprove that it was NOT large enough to overturn the result.
      
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      December 7, 2020 2:47pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      How many USA qualified Constitutional lawyers do we have on KB? I’ve a smattering of NZ legal systems and jurisprudence but the knowhow required to give an informed opinion on US legal outcomes is way out of my paygrade. We have some principles in common but I cannot give an opinion based on those.
      
      However, I can sniff out concern and possible evidence from my years as a forensic investigator. There seems to be good reason to infer that the Presidential election results in some places are of dubious standing. That’s up to the USA to deal with. I’ve read extensive authorities and some do argue that Trump has the power and likely the duty to pass this matter back to the people again.
      
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      December 7, 2020 3:22pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Sigh.
        
        Trump has no constitutional authority to “pass this matter back to the people again”.
        
        In the absence of clear evidence of overwhelming fraud neither do the courts. And no, we haven’t even seen mildly speculative evidence of small amounts of fraud let alone the level needed.
        
        Under the US Constitution Trump will cease to be President at midday on 20 January 2021. You can flail around all you like but that is what will happen.
        
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        December 7, 2020 3:33pm
  - Juliet2554
    
    there’s no way that video is fake. MSM print lies every day
    
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    December 7, 2020 3:57pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      whereas nobody ever puts fake videos up on youtube
      
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      December 7, 2020 5:13pm
- SGA
  
  @Sarkozygroupie
  Yes, but it’s reporting that this is a bogus beat-up.
  For example (there are others)
  https://myfox8.com/news/surveillance-video-of-suitcases-filled-with-ballots-breeds-false-fraud-claims-in-georgia/
  Trump’s more extreme supporters here, however, are waiting for the hammer to drop on the people in the videos, of course.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:12am
Swifty

I saw this coming a year or two ago and now here it is:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123609316/this-is-urgent-fed-up-employment-commissioner-launches-inquiry-in-low-pay-for-pacific-workers

I don’t know why Commissioner of Equal Employment Opportunities Saunoamaali’i Dr Karanina Sumeo needs her enquiry. It appears abundantly clear from this and other interviews with her that her mind is already made up; Pacific people are paid lower because of racial discrimination and the law should be used to force and coerce racist private business owners to pay them more.

The fact that pay and income rates are far more to do with education levels, occupational skills and personal behaviours, entrepreneurship, command of English, interpersonal skills, time out for children etc won’t come into it I suspect – it will all come down to racism by Europeans.

I would also point out what is, in my view, a deliberate deceit when NZ pay rate by ethnicities is graphed as in this article. I have seen it time and time again; you are only ever presented comparisons of Europeans versus Maori and Pacific people. I have never seen a breakdown by all ethnicities and which will show many Asian ethnicities having higher pay rates than Europeans – the Chinese and Koreans being a good example.

Of course, showing that Europeans are being out-earned by the Chinese and Koreans blows the racist argument out of the water and that’s why they don’t show it.

Commissioner of Equal Employment Opportunities Saunoamaali’i Dr Karanina Sumeo could save us a whole lot of time and money by simply sending the Pacific community strong and clear messages of “be more like the Chinese and the Koreans” and everyone will be a whole lot better off.

But I guarantee she won’t.

I’ve said it a hundred times, we are being openly misled and by people who’s salaries we pay for.
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December 7, 2020 9:19am
- Bob
  
  I observed and heard Commissioner Saunoamaali on TV this morning. I doubt that she has a clue about economics and pay rates; and clearly does not understand this made up Portfolio that she holds; but the title sounds impressive for social occasions.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:29am
lilman

Was getting fuel last night after a 16 hour day working.
Ran into a group of young Kiwis who I could tell were up to no good at the service station.
They were stealing,pure and simple,every thing about their manor and actions was simply suspect.
I have 4 children so life has taught me when thing dont feel right to take notice.
Baseball cap number one was complaining to counter staff ,loudly and with much swearing that this Trucker found to say enlightening would be a understatement.
Neck tattoo number two was stuffing his trousers with a collection of food,drinks and for some unknown reason cable ties.
Number three, a stunted teenager with arse was hanging out of his trousers was standing in doorway holding glass doors open.
Myself ,I was on phone videoing all goings on whilst talking to police.
LOL, number three threatened to fuck me up,I showed him the size 12 steel cap that I would insert into his arse if he even tried to move.
He nearly cried ,it was so funny a young lady waiting to pay actually started to laugh at them ,it was pathetic.
Police arrive and after seeing video and arresting 2 and 3 stopped to tell me that I would need to give a statement which I will this morning.
Trash all of them, Good to see my day of work ,that I was being taxed on, being used to fund these deadbeats to have a lovely Christmas.
63 2
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December 7, 2020 9:19am
- RJ
  
  Don’t worry, they will get a growling and let go.
  
  Damn anyone watch the British police show where people assaulting police get slapped with a fine or basically nothing for assaulting a cop
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:16am
- Nukuleka
  
  Why would anyone downtick this amazing post!!! Good on you lilman.
  
  27 2
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  December 7, 2020 10:42am
- lifesgood
  
  Good man!
  
  20 0
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  December 7, 2020 11:03am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Good on you. Well done for taking action.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:53am
I remember when

India’s raw cotton prices increased by about 25% in two months this year due to international price rises.
After three years of sluggish markets there are positive indicators that support a firm trend in cotton prices.
There will not be a surplus this year as supply will be smaller than earlier expected while demand is reviving.
Price increases may hit exports, in the short term, but Bangladesh will continue to buy Indian cotton. They are the biggest purchaser of Indian’s cotton.
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December 7, 2020 9:21am
- Jack5
  
  That’s odd, the site I link to below says of the world cotton price:
  
  From over 100 cents in 1995 the price has dropped to below 30 cents in recent years, and is now at the level of the last global economic crisis.
  
  There are rival fabrics, such as rayon, nylon, polyester, or if you like natural stuff, merino, linen, pulped bamboo.
  
  The latest on cotton prices:
  
  https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/cotton-price?op=1
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:21am
Maggie Pie

All up, we’ve got 9 toilets. Yet quite often I find myself having to explain to the Check-Out Operators at New World why I buy so much Toilet Paper.
They don’t seem to understand that some people might have a couple of houses and a boat that need to be stocked on a regular basis.

I can only imagine the sort of questions Meghan Markel must get when she goes shopping 😀

https://twitter.com/BillNeelyNBC/status/1293920097338191872
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December 7, 2020 9:31am
- sooty
  
  Yes, but would you not be dumping the same amout, regardless of which throne you use!
  It’s not as though you can have an extra one for your sister, mother, them next door?
  
  11 3
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  December 7, 2020 9:36am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Well Maggie, I am down to three and find, not unsurprisingly, that I can only use one at a time.
  
  I only use 1 x toilet tissue per visit while the other two languish on standby. The number of toilets does not equate to a closet toilet paper hoarder but the number of squares per visit . . .
  
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  December 7, 2020 9:54am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Feel free to thank me
  https://urbansurvivalsite.com/ways-to-wipe-your-butt-when-the-toilet-paper-is-gone/
  
  14 3
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  December 7, 2020 10:05am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thanks Maggs!
    Saw an excellent doco over the weekend where the Royal Family have a…. “Groom of the Stool”
    
    Not silly ;D
    
    12 4
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    December 7, 2020 10:24am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      They used to have a groom of the stool. This was literally, the king’s toilet assistant. It was a prized job, given the personal contact with the king. Thomas more recounts a tale of Richard III sitting on his ‘close stool’ grumbling, to a ‘secret page’ about the need to find a reliable man to do away with the princes in the tower.
      
      11 2
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      December 7, 2020 11:20am
      - IC5000
        
        After having experienced the civilised glory that is a Japanese toilet with an upward spray where the user can control the velocity, temperature and pattern it is a decent into barbarism to use toilet paper again.
        
        7 1
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        December 7, 2020 1:36pm
- RJ
  
  Nice house, shame he has to share it with Megan
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:13am
hullkiwi

Then we get from the file of I could have told you so….

RNZ have reported that rural schools in NZ have been having a problem recruiting teachers for the 2021 academic year.

Well guess what folks, I’m not surprised. This problem has existed for years, it has been a problem since the 1980s and the “Tomorrow Schools Policy” and the demise of regional Education Boards, and the requirements to employ teachers (both full time and relief) who had maintained their certification/qualifications. Because of a lack of central control at a regional level it is often difficult to attract staff to remote schools (and living environments) on salaries that are not attractive.

Add to the woes, that Jacinda and her mates have controlled (without understanding) immigration policy. Just as the REF worker scheme is a backstop for the horticultural industry. Recruiting teachers abroad has been a backstop for rural schools. However, Covid and Jacinda turned this approach off, instead she assured us that NZ would benefit from all the teachers coming home this year.

News flash Jacinda, it is not happening!

If any teachers have come home, and are wanting to work as teachers, they are only doing so in the big cities.

So, now we are seeing reports that rural schools are struggling to recruit for 2021.

Just goes to show how dangerous it is when you have a PM fixated about what the next headline might be, and they are surrounded by equally unqualified colleagues, advisors and PR spin/marketing merchants.

Real issues get ignored in favour of “kindness, aroha, hugz and feelz”, pumped hydro and electric cars.

When will a real government stop forward?
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December 7, 2020 9:34am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Yes, teacher recruitment.
  I have a rellie who is a career teacher, not renewing his contract at a Northland school, will be looking at other options. Says that the kids are not supported in that part of the world and it’s a depressing environment to try and teach in.
  Here’s an idea: Charter schools seem to work well in those places.
  ……….. oh, wait ………….
  
  31 1
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  December 7, 2020 10:27am
  - RJ
    
    Don’t be silly, labour and the teachers union, who are both corrupt, have no interest in the what is best for students. They’re just as bad as the usa teachers union.
    
    21 3
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    December 7, 2020 10:31am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Seems like we have a Labour-voting-downticker…
      
      14 4
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      December 7, 2020 11:48am
      - hullkiwi
        
        We may have a Labour voting downticker, who probably doesn’t have a clue how much the education system has been failing rural children for 30 years. Add the failure of the immigration policy and rural teacher recruitment, the question begs how many Kaikohes does the downticker want?
        
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        December 7, 2020 1:24pm
Inandout

As with Trump, the deluded ones will wish Giuliani no recovery.
https://trends.gab.com/item/5fcd428da35b1428670f808a
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December 7, 2020 9:47am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Iandout, entirely predictable though.
  
  0 38
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  December 7, 2020 10:12am
  - Inandout
    
    SB2, as are your answers.
    
    19 1
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    December 7, 2020 11:38am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Covid-19 has caught a dose of Rudi.
  
  3 12
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  December 7, 2020 11:21am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is it the fake 45x PCR test result?
    
    4 1
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    December 7, 2020 11:50am
    - SB2
      
      Ask the Whitehouse or Rudy himself!
      
      1 16
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      December 7, 2020 12:02pm
  - virtualmark
    
    It seems the virus has no standards.
    
    0 3
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    December 7, 2020 3:35pm
RiP NZ

Evil landlords / capitalists. Preying on the marginalized and forcing people to the wall with massive lease hikes –

How dare the white ……hang on

Ngāti Whātua proposes massive ground rental rises on Auckland waterfront sites. https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/apartment-owners-hit-nightmare-lease-hike?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Heads%20Up
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December 7, 2020 9:52am
- Inandout
  
  RiP, oh dear, how sad, never mind. Think of those magnificent views, and at least the local iwi probably doesn’t have to pay tax.
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:25am
artemisia

Public submissions open (briefly, to 16 December) for the Bill changing residential eligibility for super from 10 years to 20 years. Submissions will be interesting.

There are a lot of Bills just opened for public submissions. Various dates, some others in December as well.
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December 7, 2020 9:52am
Jack5

Is Kiwiblog short of moderators?

There were delays of up to six hours on posts at the weekend.

I can see the need for moderation with dangers of libel and the climate since the Christchurch mosque massacres, but moderation has taken away the spontaneity and to-and-fro quipping that made Kiwiblog so lively in past years.

If it’s a case of relying on volunteer labour, perhaps DPF might look at a system where each poster pays X cents per post (and higher at weekends), the cash going to pay moderators.

[Mod: What a splendid idea!]
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December 7, 2020 9:57am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  That would cut me out. I don’t even have spare cash to donate to Stuff.
  
  28 1
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  December 7, 2020 10:28am
  - RJ
    
    Thats alright, neither do stuffed
    
    15 2
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    December 7, 2020 10:37am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’d do that. Even better, I’d be happy to act as a moderator.
  
  2 24
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  December 7, 2020 11:22am
  - sooty
    
    You have offered before and been passed over.
    Maybe when you get more up ticks than down ticks!
    
    14 1
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    December 7, 2020 12:15pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Wisely, the moderators (apart from batman) have not revealed their role to the unwashed commentariat.
      
      6 2
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      December 7, 2020 1:35pm
- Jack5
  
  We could elaborate on the scheme:
  
  – A higher rate for a post that would get preferential moderation, with a guaranteed maximum wait of 10 minutes;
  
  – For anyone prepared and able to provide, first, a preferential mortgage over a home or other land asset of up to $700,000, and, second, an iron legal guarantee to meet any damages and legal costs. This contract would allow direct posting without moderation.
  
  4 2
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  December 7, 2020 11:39am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  As long as the Mod roster is made public (pseudonymously of course), I’m all for it. 10c a post 🙂
  
  4 2
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  December 7, 2020 11:50am
- emmess
  
  No way, it would kill the site.
  It is a big leap to give your credit card over to site.
  Only a small percentage of existing posters would (maybe 25%) and barely any new people would join.
  
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  December 7, 2020 1:48pm
RJ

Message from Sheriff Bianco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvvRme0h2oY&app=desktop
10 2
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December 7, 2020 10:03am
- SB2
  
  One rather unhinged tweet,
  
  Aaron Knox
  
  1 day ago
  Standing for individual liberty against tyrants – how incredibly “American”.
  Thank you for your courage and for protecting our rights.
  “Hold the Line!”
  
  2 28
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  December 7, 2020 10:15am
I remember when

“Greater focus had been put on the link between burning the coal, a fossil fuel, and industrial agriculture and the output of a Fonterra agricultural plant.” Environmental Justice Onepoti member and media liaison, Fiona Clement.
And they looked neither left or right so saw not any injustice in their actions.
This evil incarnate must be struck down and neither fact, or science, is required to justify their actions.
EVERYONE knows they are RIGHT.
9 2
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December 7, 2020 10:07am
- RJ
  
  Well they are shifting to burning wood instead, which is going to leave it hard for locals to buy firewood
  
  10 3
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  December 7, 2020 10:12am
  - alloytoo
    
    Yes with only fifteen years left before disaster (twenty years ago) we’ll burn more polutant wood which is “Renewable” in 20 years.
    
    Assuming of course the wood isn’t cleared to build a damn windmill.
    
    6 1
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    December 7, 2020 11:09am
oldfella

The No Minister blog sums up the new mini-circus now residing in parliament. (Stuff … are you listening?)

“The Maori Party are setting themselves up to be a sideshow giving voice to the Hone Harawira’s of Maoridom perpetually mired in the grievance industry and supported by guilt ridden, chardonnay quaffing, tiki wearing, woke socialists … misfits all.”

https://nominister.wordpress.com/2020/12/06/the-maori-party-seeks-to-airbrush-history/
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December 7, 2020 10:14am
I remember when

1. We must never make a mistake.
2. No matter what happens there must absolutely be no local transmission.
Should we …..
Refer to No1 and 2.
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December 7, 2020 10:15am
Maggie Pie

Thort this worth sharing with the group.

Overheard my partner on his mobile this morning telling a client “….that 6 out of 11 Jaguar models are now manufactured in India”.

Sounds like he might have convinced the guy to view the BM he’s selling on behalf.
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December 7, 2020 10:17am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Love to know what Jaguar models those are.
  Sounds like an old wives’ tale.
  
  5 4
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  December 7, 2020 10:30am
  - mark15
    
    No.
    Jaguar is owned by Tata Steel.
    I used to work in a freight forwarders in the uk 20 odd years ago and the frames for the doors and bonnets were imported from India then.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:09pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, given Jag’s appalling reputation for ‘things going wrong’ perhaps a bit of Asian vehicle reliability may rub off on the brand. Then again all those dodgy Jag electronics presumably are made to fail, so the old maxim: rubbish in, rubbish out.
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner had an F-TYPE he traded earlier this year. Found a plum for it in Palmy of all places. They smell really nice.
    
    9 4
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    December 7, 2020 10:51am
  - hullkiwi
    
    From something Indian owned?
    
    A similar example can be applied to a higher priced brand of German whiteware.
    
    Made in India, costs less, but will fail after 2 to 3 years.
    
    Made in Munich, will cost 80% more, but will last 5 to 10 times longer.
    
    You figure?
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Bosch, I assume?
      
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      December 7, 2020 1:36pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @hullk
        
        If you are being real patriotic, work your way through a few “made in NZ” F&P dish-drawers …
        
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        December 7, 2019 6:22pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        There are 3 potential brands, Bosch being one. Bosch whitewater in Europe is also marketed in alliance with Siemens and Neff. So, it is your choice.
        
        But for what it is worth, people who retail whiteware know of the issue I posted on. The same retailers will then profile their customers based on what they believe you can afford. If you, are a person who comes across as someone who is looking for branded goods for a song, chances are you will be buying “Made in India” or “Made in Turkey”. The price you pay for being a cheap skate.
        
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        December 7, 2020 2:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Does that mean the appliance retailer will have both German-made and Indian-made in stock at the same time for the same price?
        
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        December 7, 2020 5:39pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Yes, same brand, just made in the different countries. Don’t believe me, go to Harvey Norman and ask. They have the same product, and models, side by side, except one was made in India and one in German. An Indian made dishwasher $1500, the German one $2300.
        
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        December 7, 2020 8:59pm
- SB2
  
  Maggie Pie, though owned by the Mumbai based Tata group Jaguars are in fact made at these plants,
  
  Today Jaguar cars are made at the JLR factory in Castle Bromwich in Birmingham. In late 2018 was open new plant in Slovakia. Jaguar owns the Daimler brand (not Daimler-Benz). Jaguar bought the British Daimler Company in 1960.
  Parent: Tata Motors, Ford
  Subsidiary: Daimler Company
  Founders: William Lyons
  
  Jaguar Cars – Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
  Maggie Pie and hubby are full of old wives tales
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Quite honestly, what would you know SB2?
    Just checked with my partner and he said 6 of 11 Jaguar models are manufactured at their PUNE plant in Maharashitra.
    
    And a matter of interest, what do YOU drive
    Thought so. LOL!!
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:47am
    - sooty
      
      Drive, surely you jest!
      He catches a covid carrier!
      
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      December 7, 2020 12:10pm
    - Durden
      
      Info from 2019, https://www.jaguarmissionviejo.com/who-owns-jaguar/
      
      Who Makes Jaguar / Where is the Jaguar Factory?
      
      While Jaguar is owned by Tata Motors, Jaguar Land Rover is headquartered in Coventry about two hours north of London, and the main Jaguar assembly plant is in Birmingham, England, which has been a hub of manufacturing innovation since the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution in Britain. You can even take a trip across the pond and take a Jaguar factory tour! Many plants across the world make genuine Jaguar and Land Rover models, but if you buy your Jaguar in the United States, it was probably made in England. Here is where Jaguar factories are located globally:
      
      Birmingham, England — Jaguar XE, XF, XJ, and F-TYPE
      Solihull, England — Jaguar F-PACE
      Wolverhampton, England — Engine assembly plant
      Graz, Austria — Facility co-operated by Magna Steyr, manufacturing the Jaguar E-PACE and I-PACE
      Changshu, China — Jaguar XE, XF, and engine assembly
      Pune, India — Assembly of complete knock-down kits* for the Jaguar XF and XJ
      
      *A complete knock-down kit is a kit of parts that have been manufactured in one country (England for example). The kit is then sent to another country (India in this case) for final assembly.
      
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      December 8, 2020 7:32am
- Paulus
  
  Jaguar a cars as JLR (Jaguar Land Rover) are all Indian owned so irrelevant where built.
  Mr RatanTata owns the company.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:15am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Did a bit of research. Some Jaguar models are actually built in India but you can bet they will only be for local consumption.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:50am
Mike22240

Some of the services the council is supposed to manage could be dismantled while ATEED still exists. I hope we get a commissioner like Tauranga because this council is dysfunctional.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-council-could-be-forced-to-close-playgrounds-and-public-toilets/XCRZYRUASLNNUJ5MZI5HGRFHAA/
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December 7, 2020 10:24am
RJ

Ware County, Ga has broken the Dominion algorithm: Using sequestered Dominion Equipment, Ware County ran a equal number of Trump votes and Biden votes through the Tabulator and the Tabulator reported a 26% lead for Biden.

https://mobile.twitter.com/robbhurstCPA/status/1335557576587665408
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December 7, 2020 10:27am
- SB2
  
  RJ , the claim is refuted here,
  
  Fact check: Video claim that Dominion tech manipulated Georgia votes is false
  
  “…Watch a Dominion Representative … responsible for tabulating ballots and certifying results, download data to a USB from the Election Management Server, plug it into a laptop, manipulate the data, then palm the USB,” the person who posted the video wrote in its caption. She did not respond to USA TODAY’s request for comment…”
  
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/02/fact-check-claim-dominion-tech-altered-georgia-votes-false/3792599001/
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:41am
  - RJ
    
    Nope it hasn’t been refuted, actually your article doesn’t even have anything to do with it, as usual.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:27am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Fact checking by the Lugendpresse? Ok, boomer…
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:51am
  - Juliet2554
    
    ha a fact checker by USAtoday. Good one
    
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    December 7, 2020 3:02pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    The article is itself long on accusation and very short on any actual “fact” to check.
    
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    December 7, 2020 3:57pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Nah this is chinese whispers, there is no verifiable source for this claim. There was a recount in this county that found a 37 vote error in Bidens favour (super suspicious that errors always seem to favour Biden), but no voting machine issue, and local officials say no machines have been audited in this manner.
  
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  December 7, 2020 10:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Actual story from a source who was set to testify.
    Recount showed 37 votes switched to Biden, but no clear indications how it happened, could be machines, could be another cheating Democratic vote counter.
    
    https://georgiastarnews.com/2020/12/05/trump-legal-team-witness-alleged-that-ware-county-audit-results-revealed-dominion-machine-flipped-ballots-from-trump-to-biden/
    
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    December 7, 2020 4:54pm
- Juliet2554
  
  Ware County Dominion Machines were seized. Equal number of Trump & Biden votes were forensically analysed. However the machines reported 87% for Trump & 113% for Biden. These machines should be set to 100% for both candidates.
  Stay tuned
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:09am
  - alloytoo
    
    Why do these machines even have such a setting?
    
    And if they do, why would an honest person buy them.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:46pm
    - Juliet2554
      
      Very good question – guess it depends on the money you’re getting as kick backs for signing up. Exactly why Texas said no to them.
      
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      December 7, 2020 3:03pm
- Inandout
  
  RJ, if anything will tip Joe over the edge into full dementia this is it. I can just imagine the immense pressure he is under keeping these things hidden. I can’t believe for a moment he is unaware of the voting anomolies.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:15am
  - SGA
    
    Maybe that’s what Biden was doing while Trump was holding rallies. Roaming around changing the software in voting machines. Maybe someone on twitter or youtube can confirm this.
    
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    December 7, 2020 11:28am
    - Inandout
      
      SGA, I can imagine Joe roaming around. The poor bastard is too far gone to even know what day it is, it is elder abuse carried to new heights. Just to get Harris over the line.
      
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      December 7, 2020 12:40pm
    - Juliet2554
      
      Joe was across this but most of this has been driven by Obama + George Soros. There is talk Obama cheated in his 2nd election. The Democrats would have got away with it in 2020 but they didnt except Trump to win by so much so they werent prepared. That’s why they made so many mistakes and were exposed.
      
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      December 7, 2020 3:05pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Biden had previously stated in public that he had set up the “best” voting fraud team ever.
    Such a statement show his fitness to be a candidate for POTUS.
    Don’t they have others on offer?
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:06pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Wow. Might be only a matter of days before the president declares an emergency, cancels the election results, and locks up all those crooked democrats!
  Or, the courts continue to dismiss the baseless allegations for want of evidence, the electoral college meets, and the new president is inaugurated as scheduled.
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:26am
I remember when

Forty five days until the Democrats start blaming Trump for any ongoing covid deaths.
Forty five days until the Democrats take the credit for any successful covid vaccines.
Forty five days until the media find out they have very little to write about.
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December 7, 2020 10:47am
Juliet2554

For those who don’t know Dominion Voting was sold to Staple St in 2018. Staple St sold this company to Swiss Bank UBS Securities in October 2020.
USB Securities is 75% owned by the CCP.
Here is the law Trump passed in September 2018 regarding international election interference. He has 45 days after an election to declare a national state of emergency after international election interference. That I believe is Friday 18th December. Four more years of Trump everyone!
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-imposing-certain-sanctions-event-foreign-interference-united-states-election/
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December 7, 2020 11:12am
- SB2
  
  Updated: December 3, 2020 (12:00PM ET)
  
  SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT: FACTS & RUMORS
  DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS HAS BEEN THE TARGET OF ELECTION DISINFORMATION SEEKING TO UNDERMINE CONFIDENCE IN THE INTEGRITY OF THE 2020 ELECTION. HERE ARE THE FACTS:
  
  Dominion is a private American company that provides voting systems in 28 states, including “red” and “blue” jurisdictions. Since its founding in 2003, Dominion has supported tens of thousands of elections in non-partisan fashion.
  All Dominion systems are capable of producing paper records and are 100% auditable, with testing, reviews, audits, and recounts subject to oversight and verification by all political parties.
  All 2020 election audits and recounts using Dominion technology have validated the accuracy and reliability of results, confirming the integrity of election outcomes.
  Baseless claims about the integrity of the system or the accuracy of the results have been dismissed by election authorities, subject matter experts and third-party fact-checkers.
  Malicious and misleading false claims about Dominion have resulted in dangerous levels of threats and harassment against the company and its employees, as well as election officials.
  
  WHO OWNS DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS?
  
  Dominion Voting Systems is a non-partisan American company that makes electronic voting systems. No foreign national directly or indirectly owns or controls the company. As verified by the Associated Press, Dominion began as a Canadian company and was later incorporated in the United States. One of the company’s founders, John Poulos, serves as CEO. Dominion and other voting system manufacturers submit extensive company disclosures to federal and state authorities as terms of product testing and system certification. The company has no ownership ties whatsoever to USB, or the governments of China, Cuba, or Venezuela.
  
  https://www.dominionvoting.com/election2020-setting-the-record-straight/
  
  Note “The company has no ownership ties whatsoever to USB, or the governments of China, Cuba, or Venezuela.”
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:50am
  - Fletch
    
    Yeh, that’s why all their members have gone into hiding, closed their social media accounts, missed a court appearance, closed up shop and moved away etc…
    
    Back to paper ballots the only way to go. The whole election has been a car crash in slow motion. Every day brings more evidence of corruption and outright fraud.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:28pm
    - IC5000
      
      > Yeh, that’s why all their members have gone into hiding, closed their social media accounts, missed a court appearance, closed up shop and moved away etc…
      
      That’s because their wives and children have been threatened by Trump supporters. It’s only a matter of time before they kill or maim again.
      
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      December 7, 2020 1:30pm
  - Juliet2554
    
    sorry this is untrue. I have been following this closely since election night. Dominion sold to Staple Street Capital –
    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/dominion-voting-systems-acquired-by-its-management-team-and-staple-street-capital-300681752.html
    Then sold to UBS Securities.
    
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1827586/000182758620000001/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml
    
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    December 7, 2020 2:33pm
    - The Housekeeper
      
      That’s hard to refute, good work Juliet2554.
      
      4 2
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      December 7, 2020 4:26pm
    - SB2
      
      I repeat as per my earleir post – lies !
      
      WHO OWNS DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS?
      
      Dominion Voting Systems is a non-partisan American company that makes electronic voting systems. No foreign national directly or indirectly owns or controls the company. As verified by the Associated Press, Dominion began as a Canadian company and was later incorporated in the United States. One of the company’s founders, John Poulos, serves as CEO. Dominion and other voting system manufacturers submit extensive company disclosures to federal and state authorities as terms of product testing and system certification. The company has no ownership ties whatsoever to USB, or the governments of China, Cuba, or Venezuela.
      
      https://www.dominionvoting.com/election2020-setting-the-record-straight/
      
      Note “The company has no ownership ties whatsoever to USB, or the governments of China, Cuba, or Venezuela.”
      
      I just wonder when unhinged Trump supporters will be outside their head office sceaming death threats and so om.
      
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      December 7, 2020 4:50pm
    - RichardX
      
      You need to verify your claim of UBS Securities being 75% CCP owned.
      
      Your claim is different to multiple sources I have checked.
      
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      December 7, 2020 7:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        But, but…she has ‘been following this closely’…
        
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        December 7, 2020 8:56pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  There is legal argument out there that POTUS has fundamental rights and duties under the Declaration of Independence. That’s like a discretionary backstop–POTUS is enabled to do whatever in their opinion is needed.
  
  The next few weeks are going to be exceedingly interesting.
  
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  December 7, 2020 12:10pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    “May you live in interesting times”.
    
    Yes, yes we are.
    
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    December 7, 2020 1:23pm
    - emmess
      
      Well the CCP are busily putting the old Chinese curse into action.
      
      6 2
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      December 7, 2020 1:42pm
  - IC5000
    
    Hopefully the US military will step in to defend the constitution against these internal enemies seeking to overthrown the new president elect.
    
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    December 7, 2020 1:28pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      There he goes again, babbling on about the declaration of independence. And he thinks Biden is senile…
      
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      December 7, 2020 1:38pm
    - emmess
      
      Hey, you are jumping the gun a bit there. Trump is not president elect yet.
      
      6 3
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      December 7, 2020 1:44pm
      - IC5000
        
        Maybe in 2025 I guess if he’s still alive and long covid hasn’t degraded his cognitive capacity too much
        
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        December 7, 2020 3:31pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        IC – how much is still there to degrade?
        “Person, man, woman, camera, TV”
        
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        December 7, 2020 5:36pm
  - SB2
    
    Only in the mindss of unhinged Trump supporters.
    
    Bring on 20/01/ 21 when Biden takes the oath of office as the 46th President of the USA
    
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    December 7, 2020 4:52pm
RJ

Georgia Democrat talking against the voting machines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN8lukZ2K3I

Need to look to see how much commie money she got to change her mind about it a few days ago
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December 7, 2020 11:29am
- RJ
  
  Wow she even admits that these machines can be hacked with no sign of hacking. She must of taken a huge commie pay off considering her speech the other day
  
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  December 7, 2020 11:32am
- SB2
  
  Dominion is not owned by the CCP
  
  FACT!
  
  I’ll bet when approached by media she will just skulk away. Like they all do!
  
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  December 7, 2020 4:53pm
oldfella

I doubt this will be the last such protest as footballing fans are finally allowed back into English grounds. If paying punters keep this up it might bring an end to the ‘taking the knee’ stupidity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9023141/Millwall-finally-condemn-fans-BOOING-players.html
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December 7, 2020 11:33am
- oob
  
  Agreed.
  
  Surprised as I am at the first time in my entire life agreeing with the actions of Millwall fans.
  
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  December 7, 2020 12:24pm
RJ

Nothing from David today, is he alright?
8 3
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December 7, 2020 11:35am
Maggie Pie

REMINDER TO THE GROUP…

‘Taranaki Hard’
tonite TV3 @ 8:40

DON’T MISS IT 😛
4 6
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December 7, 2020 11:51am
- sooty
  
  Pure crap, by a bunch of try hard, never amount to much, bloody idiots. If that is the young ones of today from the beneficiaries, we’re stuffed! We will always be governed by labour and look like them! Good help us!
  
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  December 7, 2020 12:06pm
- oldfella
  
  Maggie, not sure ‘Taranaki’ and ‘Hard’ belong in the same sentence after the way they voted in the last election.
  Unless it was, ‘Oh, Mistress Cindy, you make me so hard just thinking ab0ut the way you destroyed our oil and gas industry … more whip, more whip …’
  
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  December 7, 2020 12:19pm
- niggly
  
  Can you kindly post a review of the programme in tomorrow’s GD?
  
  Asking as I’m sure it’ll be even funnier (than real life)!
  
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  December 7, 2020 12:30pm
Surely Knott

DOC closes Goldie’s Bush one of Auckland’s best walks including many swimming holes, is closed again “until further notice”. Is this to be another of Waitakere’s permanently closed tracks?. There is no work programme or opening date.
DOC already upgraded Goldies Bush to dry foot standards with Trigene Stations, signage, new walkways, new gravel, and track ambassadors and reopened in Oct 2018.
Meanwhile, NZ Beech Dieback in Whanganui is widespread.
What does DOC say about Beech dieback, “We think the beech tree dieback is a natural process. Studies of large beech forests in the Kaweka Mountains have found that gaps are an important part of the forest life cycle, providing the space and light for tree seedlings to come away. As each generation of trees grows old and dies it is important that they are replaced with young, healthy trees to form the next generation.
Southern beeches often have a ‘seedling bank’ rather than a ‘seed bank’. Seeds usually sprout quickly and then wait for a gap to occur.”

Why the different approach? “This is known as gap-phase regeneration and occurs in New Zealand’s main forest types: kauri, conifer–broadleaf and beech forests.”

Yes Kauri need a gap from dying trees to regenerate. The beech forests meanwhile are still open.

Kauri are not going to be extinct in 40 years as alleged by Media. They used a false date 2008 as the discovery date. But that is only when it was found in Piha. The pathogen now known as Phytopthora Agathidicida was found causing dieback in 1974 on Great Barrier Island by Scion and Dr Peter Gadgil who published his research. He found the pathogen under sick AND healthy trees and therefore believes the pathogen only activated in periods of drought or poor climate. Council Scientists visited the Gadgil site in 2009 and found the Gadgil site was rich in regeneration of many natives including Kauri. Kauri are still thriving on Great Barrier. Open the parks.
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December 7, 2020 11:55am
- wilderbeast
  
  As someone who spends a sh*tload more time in the outdoors than the average urban liberal in the DoC hierarchy, but nowhere near as much as i’d like, my summation is that there is no more BS out there than the DoC doctrine on native species. Beech trees are in NZ in their millions, as is snow grass – but if you read what DoC has to say, accompanied by some cherry picked photos symbolising environmental apocalypse you can be excused for thinking otherwise.
  
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  December 7, 2020 12:45pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Agreed. DoC thinks the aggressive monoculture weed known as mangroves which is destroying our northern harbours and estuaries is in dire need of protection. Although it is silently devoid of life other than worms and crabs in its stinking mud they think it is an essential habitat. Beyond clueless.
    
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    December 7, 2020 12:56pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Why is NZ Geographic lying about the importance of mangrove swamps?
      https://www.nzgeo.com/video/mangroves/
      Looks like Forest & Bird and NIWA know little about mangroves either:
      https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/update-mangrove-management-bill
      https://niwa.co.nz/publications/wa/vol11-no1-march-2003/spreading-mangroves-a-new-zealand-phenomenon-or-a-global-trend
      
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      December 7, 2020 1:45pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      The huge Whangapoua estuary used to be an open and clear stretch of water two generations back. Now half clogged up and ever shrinking due to mangrove spread. Tauranga is similarly afflicted. Spawning grounds for countless coastal fisheries are being lost by this pestilence.
      
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      December 7, 2020 5:07pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Bollocks.
        
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        December 7, 2020 5:34pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Check the information yourself, then.
        
        https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Change-in-percentage-cover-of-mangrove-and-seagrass-in-Whangapoua-Harbour-from-1945-until_fig6_306255616
        
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        December 7, 2020 8:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not really the point, is it?
        If Urban was actually concerned for the state of coastal fisheries, he could worry about the many other factors in play rather than the recovery of mangroves.
        
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        December 7, 2020 8:51pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I could understand somebody from DOC in Napier commenting upon the Kaweka mountains, which form the watershed between the Mohaka and Ngaruroro rivers, but why consult the Wanganui office on such a matter? That seems weird to me.
  
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  December 7, 2020 1:48pm
  - Biscuit
    
    TN, did you miss this morning’s news.
    
    Magnitude 4.4 Earthquake just north of Wairoa.
    
    Apparently the Kaweka mountains to which you refer were shunted to within 10 km of W(h)angers!
    
    Would these baby-blue eyes lie to you?
    
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    December 7, 2020 2:39pm
- trout
  
  This is the content of a letter I wrote to the Herald which they declined to publish. I sense that right now there is a retreat from the dogmatic position held by the Council (added and abetted by pushy tree lovers). It was all political.
  ‘The call to ban people from Kauri tree locations is extreme and probably ineffective. That walkers spread kauri dieback is an unproven hypothesis. There is no die back in the Hunuas or Okura River bush; it may be that the tree or soil chemistry is different but this is unlikely. Many trampers have successively walked the tracks in Waitakere and the Hunuas with soil on their boots, and yet there is no sign of transported infection. A more likely vector for the kauri dieback organism are wild pigs; they roam the Waitakere tracks; root around trees near the tracks and more significantly visit areas of the bush where die back exists but no people go. A rudimentary survey has shown no sign of dieback alongside several popular tracks in the Waitakeres which have been traversed by hundreds of trampers. Perhaps it would be more productive to eliminate the pigs and let the people back in.’
  
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  December 7, 2020 3:16pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    We cannot save Kauri given all the animal vectors for transmitting the disease. The only option that makes sense is working to breed resistant strains of Kauri, and that is the only thing that money should be spent on.
    
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    December 7, 2020 5:10pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      No. We don’t need resistant strains. Kauri are already resistant to Phytopthora Agatahadicida. The soil tests from Council showed only a very small minority of the trees they visually symptomatic tested had dieback. They were nearly three times as likely to find Phytopthora cinnamomi, phytopthora multivora, phytopthora sp. or nil. They witheld the soil test results from the report. They have since been published on local sites after lgoima. Phytopthora Agathadicida is endemic to our soils and genetic tests have since proved it was centuries of years old. It is natural. It’s not the first time it was found causing dieback in the waitakeres either. Podger and Newhook (ex head of plant pathology at Auckland Uni) published a report showing Kauri dieback dating back to the 1950’s in the Waitakere’s Cascades caused by P. Cinnamomi. (not agathadicida) they also said it’s activated by drought. It’s a perfectly normal recurring process. And soil tests did not support that it was agathadicida. They just need to open the forests.
      
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      December 7, 2020 6:36pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You could try and eliminate the pigs… (not difficult for a few decent hunters)..but they’ll just be re-introduced by other folks who don’t give a damn about the condition of Northland’s forests.
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/06/pigs-illegally-released-onto-northland-conservation-land.html
    
    https://www.nzgeo.com/audio/doc-to-work-with-iwi-over-wild-pig-problem/
    
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    December 7, 2020 7:18pm
RW Capitalist

“a date which will live in infamy.”
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
To all the US, Australian, New Zealand, Canadian soldiers Please include all those I forgot, especially the civilians.
14 0
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December 7, 2020 12:22pm
- rockape
  
  Forgot the uk contribution and many other European countries.
  
  2 1
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  December 7, 2020 2:35pm
Fletch

Satanists protesting at the recent Pro-Life march in Wellington – using recycled Labour Party signs ?

https://www.facebook.com/wayne.mulqueen/posts/10225862313650547

“Let’s Do This” ?
That pretty much says it all.
15 4
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December 7, 2020 1:04pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Satanists and Stalinists are pretty close spelling. A Dyslexic would never notice.
  
  Perhaps these poor protesting urchins have sold their souls to Santa 😉
  
  6 3
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  December 7, 2020 3:12pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Why there is no other post today from uncle DPF? We can’t afford Patreon unfortunately and rely on Kiwiblog….
16 2
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December 7, 2020 1:35pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Time for a guest post from you?
  
  9 3
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  December 7, 2020 1:54pm
  - Harriet
    
    No Milky, it is far past time for a guest post from me.
    
    Re. Pattern of Behaviours.
    
    Virtually all posts are about Trump
    
    A sitting President who LOST in the first term
    
    To a guy who WON the most votes in history.
    
    This statistical pattern of behaviour is very odd behaviour.
    
    As most HISTORICAL posts were about Obama WINNING
    
    Not about GWB LOSING
    
    And the world’s media is operating in exactly the SAME way.
    
    Milky – why is everyone who hates Trump – still so interested in him? 😎
    
    11 3
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    December 7, 2020 3:01pm
    - SB2
      
      Harriet, because Trump is so obviously deranged and inciting his supporters to violence!
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300174531/us-election-trumps-grievances-feeding-a-menacing-undertow?rm=a
      
      1 9
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      December 7, 2020 4:58pm
- gump
  
  So you can’t afford Kiwiblog, but you can afford the time to come on Kiwiblog and post every day?
  
  Maybe you could use some of your free time to get a job?
  
  4 14
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  December 7, 2020 2:46pm
  - RJ
    
    Or maybe you should understand that a lot of people with different backgrounds read Kiwiblog, including pensioners who don’t have spare cash before you make stupid accusations of the poster.
    
    8 4
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    December 7, 2020 4:28pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      You can sort of tell this is an oldies’ meeting place .. FPP … we deserve the pension … CGT is evil … anyone can buy a house if they just try hard enough .. benefits are too generous (except said pension) … Jacinda is useless .. John Key was wonderful …
      
      4 9
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      December 7, 2019 5:12pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        “The young people today”…
        
        4 3
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        December 7, 2020 5:31pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Gumpy – I live on benefit. Jacinda pays me very less and I want $2000 per week as a decent living benefit. Can you organise that?
    
    5 1
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    December 7, 2020 5:08pm
info@cruzpro.com

Glad we don’t live in Auckland and looking at a potential congestion charge/tax to get people out of using their cars.

I could be made to believe this is OK but only if Auckland council reduced other charges/taxes by the same amount the congestion tax raises otherwise it’s just another money grab.

The same could be said for other potential new taxes such as the sugar tax. Are they doing this for our own good or just to collect more money?
4 4
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December 7, 2020 3:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Socialists think it is for our own good – and they also like other people’s money
  
  4 5
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  December 7, 2020 4:57pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja7xUxRcoSU

California Woes. -:)

More people voted Trump in California this year than in
2016. Elon Musk, has listed all his California properties,
and is moving to Texas. Jobs are leaving with him.
High taxes, lockdowns, and nasty lefties all share the blame.
8 6
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December 7, 2020 4:17pm
- SB2
  
  How many voted for Biden then?
  
  2 9
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  December 7, 2020 5:04pm
curry4me

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/exchange-programs-propaganda/2020/12/05/id/1000167/

US Ends Exchange Programs With China.

The U.S. State Department said on Friday it has ended five cultural exchange programs with China, calling them “soft power propaganda tools.”
The Department said on its website it had “terminated” the Policymakers Educational China Trip Program, the U.S.-China Friendship Program, the U.S.-China Leadership Exchange Program, the U.S.-China Transpacific Exchange Program and the Hong Kong Educational and Cultural Program.
4 4
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December 7, 2020 4:17pm
- SB2
  
  Hopefully revoked by Biden after 20/01/21
  
  2 9
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  December 7, 2020 5:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wild Bill for America has accepted the challenge from AOC. I think he means business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeeFwCFiWbI&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2IgSga-6Ap7MOXwwbaQQmRkXYR1T1BqPBCxPllup3wPkDcHPBTH4qDVeo
2 4
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December 7, 2020 4:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Steve, I believe AOC reached the peak of her (work) career as a waitress.
  
  2 4
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  December 7, 2020 4:59pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Would not even give her that title – she pours the piss
    
    3 4
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    December 7, 2020 6:04pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Quintus Fabius said to the Carthaginian Senate
  
  “Here I bring peace or war, take which you will”
  
  THat was the beginning of the 2nd Punic War
  
  3 1
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  December 7, 2020 6:40pm
Maggie Pie

LOL!!

HDPA tells ZB political correspondent Barry Soper “…she feels sorry for people that drove all the way up from Levin for the Saftey Warehouse $100,000 cash scramble on Saturday”
Barry argues back – calls them “Naive losers”

Don’t like ol’ Bazza’s chances tonite 😛
14 3
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December 7, 2020 5:04pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  People will do anything for free money.
  
  3 2
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  December 7, 2020 5:09pm
  - MCos
    
    No better example of that than the Taxpayers Union taking free taxpayers money in spite of themselves.
    
    2 2
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    December 7, 2020 6:37pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300176760/auckland-100k-cash-drop-organisers-should-apologise-pm-says-its-caused-harm
After the harm SHE caused by interfering in the Ihumatao dispute maybe Ardern should stop butting-in to anything else.
Does she never learn ?
8 3
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December 7, 2020 5:05pm
- Inandout
  
  grey, which person do I follow, herself or the big guy? Anyhow I left the video sound on mute for a laugh.
  
  4 0
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  December 7, 2020 5:28pm
  - V
    
    Look, I haven’t watched it, but I’m guessing a furrowed brow was involved?
    
    0 0
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    December 8, 2020 1:39am
UrbanNeocolonialist

Another participant in the dodgy Georgia vote counting/ballot stuffing video revealed to have strong ties to Democrats:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/exclusive-ralph-jones-sr-outed-loud-mouth-gabriel-sterling-son-ralph-jones-jr-official-spokesman-democrat-us-senate-candidate-warnock-linked-stacey-abrams/
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December 7, 2020 5:21pm
- SB2
  
  Yet another alternative reality of Trump’s rigged election and stolen votes.
  
  https://www.npr.org/2020/11/27/939490452/trumps-election-denialism-could-hurt-his-own-party-and-its-media-allies
  
  BTW were you the one that posted that Reuters did not report on the Uyghurs issue and human rights?
  
  Untrua
  
  2 14
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  December 7, 2020 5:42pm
  - emmess
    
    Don’t believe you lying eyes, then.
    
    4 3
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    December 7, 2020 6:59pm
Fletch

Joe Biden is asked about his disagreements with Kamala Harris on certain issues:

“Like I told Barack, if I reach something where there’s a fundamental disagreement we have based on a moral principle, I’ll develop some disease and say I have to resign.”

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1334686548122591235

The guy is a few slices short of a full loaf….
9 6
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December 7, 2020 6:23pm
- Fletch
  
  It looks like Joe may have spilled the beans on the plan again….
  
  8 4
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  December 7, 2020 6:43pm
- BAM
  
  Are you a yank?
  
  0 5
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  December 7, 2020 7:15pm
kiwikidsnz

Probably the only time I’ve agreed with anything Soper says. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. That would be an important lesson for these people.
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December 7, 2020 6:31pm
Inandout

An example of the left eating their own.
https://trends.gab.com/item/5fcdbf0aa35b142867104f62
Perhaps if the Mayor did a knees down…
4 3
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December 7, 2020 6:46pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING….

Finance Minister Grant Robinson to take proposal to Cabinet to consider reimbursement for all those who attended ‘The Safety Warehouse Money Scramble’ at Auckland’s Aotea Square.
Says…..”Top Tax Rate may need to increase to 40% from April 1st”.
10 6
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December 7, 2020 6:52pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  You must be joking!!
  
  HOW WOKE
  
  3 3
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  December 7, 2020 8:07pm
  - sooty
    
    Bet you find half of nz were there!
    Where do I sign up?
    
    1 1
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    December 7, 2020 9:02pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      But can you prove it from Covid app tracking?
      
      1 0
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      December 8, 2020 6:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

The trouble with Lambton Quay

It closes down in weekends…It closes down over the long Summer holidays.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123625354/popular-wellington-cafe-astoria-lays-off-31-staff-weeks-out-from-christmas
4 2
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December 7, 2020 7:01pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Disgusting! My partner reckons it could be a ploy by the new owners to staff the joint with Chinese students.
  As the song goes…. “The monies not great but the rice is free”.
  
  2 5
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  December 7, 2020 7:19pm

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