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December 5, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 December 2020

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy World Soil Day!
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December 5, 2020 8:02am
- JackRabbit
  
  Underpants problem eh Mikey?
  
  46 6
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  December 5, 2020 9:37am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wish I’d said that 😀
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:22am
    - alloytoo
      
      As usual the Jackrabbit it streaks ahead
      
      14 2
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      December 5, 2020 11:14am
    - RJ
      
      Just be thankful you don’t have to clean it up
      
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      December 5, 2020 11:55am
- oob
  
  I struggle to understand those reflexively downticking Milky’s “day” posts.
  
  I really like them.
  
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  December 5, 2020 12:54pm
- IC5000
  
  Shouldn’t this be Jan 20th for all those Trumpists?
  
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  December 5, 2020 1:24pm
  - Mike
    
    Every day is soil day for DiaperDon’s caregivers
    
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    December 5, 2020 5:19pm
    - IC5000
      
      No worries. The Diaper Don can just pre-pardon everyone in his administration for crimes they did not commit as long as donations to the Trump Library Foundation are made before Jan 20th.
      
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      December 5, 2020 5:57pm
      - Mike
        
        Grifters gotta grift.
        
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        December 5, 2020 6:44pm
fernglas

Univerity of Otago academics talk bullshit about Covid. They conclude 2000 more people would have died and then come to this conclusion:
“”Assuming an average of 16 lost life-years per death from Covid-19 in high-income countries, this represents the prevention of around 2000 deaths and a saving of 32,000 life-years in New Zealand compared to the OECD average.”
Given that the average life expectancy in the country is about 82.5 years, this would mean the average age of a Covid death would be 16 years less, 68.5. But in fact it is around 78 years in the US.
Can’t anyone tell us the truth?
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December 5, 2020 8:10am
- fernglas
  
  For those interested in such things, this is a link to the report from which they took the 16 year figure.
  https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0238678#:~:text=Given%20the%20uncertainty%20in%20fatality,4%20years%20in%20sub%2DSaharan
  Nowhere in there is the 16 year figure mentioned. This is just lies made up to scare people
  
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  December 5, 2020 8:30am
  - fernglas
    
    And furthermore, the statistic is based on the assumption that each of those who died had a remaing number of life-years equivalent to others of the same age, when we know that it is predominantly those with co-morbidities that die, and those people are likely to have a much lower actual, rather than statistical, number of life years remaining
    
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    December 5, 2020 8:47am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Publish and perish.
    
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    December 5, 2020 9:57am
  - amospicton
    
    Probably wrong by an order of magnitude.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:05am
  - kowtow
    
    There’s a war on freedom ,being waged by the Woke,and to quote the Greek ; “In war truth is the first casualty.”
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:08am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They are plainly useless as demographers. These people cannot claim any authoritative standing other than Cindy Sycophants.
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:55am
- JackRabbit
  
  A true scientist does not spend endless hours cogitating, fiddling with numbers, and creating spreadsheets of what might have happened.
  
  Scientists that do, live in the past. They think they can show how clever they are and thereby achieve importance in society by passing comment on what didn’t happen.
  
  But these people having failed at analyzing the past, rarely, if ever, accurately predict the future. Predicting the future is not an academic spreadsheet exercise. Prediction Machines that work are based on patterns and masses of real raw data. It is not guesswork.
  
  Real scientists are hands on, not theoreticians.
  They are the ones that prove by doing and observing, not thinking up some hyperbole to be featured in the media, and give the transparency of being a though leader.
  
  Real scientists are thought leaders because they can take their ideas and build things from them.
  
  “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
  ― Nikola Tesla
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:52am
  - Ian Boag
    
    So run me an experiment about how to control covid. Don’t bother trying to figure out how it spreads. Just do the real scientific method thing, formulate a hypothesis and design an experiment to test it.
    
    When you have done that, set something up to see if the world is (a) warming and (b) humans have anything to do with it if (c) it matters ….
    
    This stuff is way beyond lab benches and Bunsen burners. Perhaps the best known example is weather forecasting – orders of magnitude better that it ever was – all due to (a) more information than there used to be and (b) heavy duty computer models to turn that into forecasts.
    
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    December 5, 2019 1:25pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      “So run me an experiment about how to control covid. Don’t bother trying to figure out how it spreads. Just do the real scientific method thing, formulate a hypothesis and design an experiment to test it. ”
      
      Already on that one, Ian.
      
      Weather forecasting is not climate science.
      
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      December 5, 2020 2:03pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        on that one, Ian
        
        I’ll bite. “How to control covid – scientifically a la Tesla”
        
        1) the hypothesis?
        2) the experiment?
        
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        December 5, 2019 2:33pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Weather forecasting is not climate science.
        
        Large sets of differential equations. Initial conditions from satellite monitoring. Heavy duty computing. We take it for granted that these models produce predictions that are good for a week or so ahead. In the old days the weather forecasts were thumbs waved in the breeze.
        
        “Not climate science”. Tesla would not have been there …
        
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        December 5, 2019 6:26pm
fernglas

The Pfizer vaccine is made from mRNA technology. This is genetic modification. Will the Greens come out against it?
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December 5, 2020 8:12am
- Aunty
  
  No, because it’s NOT a genetic modification.
  
  You need to educate yourself about biology, mate.
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:43am
  - krazykiwi
    
    You’re correct, Aunty.
    
    But mRNA does trick your DNA. It has also never previously been used to deliver vaccines. Nor has it been used on massive scale.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:10am
    - Aunty
      
      mRNA does not ‘trick’ your DNA, whatever that means. What nonsensical nonsense! I’ll say it yet again, you need to educate yourself about biology before you come on to blogs like these and write about things you clearly know nothing about and understand even less!
      
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      December 5, 2020 10:20am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Always thought, from my dim distant past Biology education (1st yr University)
        That mRNA…messenger RNA
        Was (to over simplify) half a strand of DNA, that was a copy of your DNA, that with the help of proteins, help with the replication of the full DNA strand?
        More asking than stating….it was a long time ago.
        
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        December 5, 2020 11:54am
      - Aunty
        
        Nice try, RW, but no. Messenger RNA (mRNA) is a single-stranded ribonucleic acid molecule that is transcribed (i.e., made) by the enzyme RNA polymerase II as it traverses down a gene on the DNA (a deoxyribonucleic acid molecule) transcribing that gene into a complementary strand of RNA. This (after processing) is then used by the ribosomes (protein assembling units) as a coding sequence template for the production of proteins that go on to do various forms of work in the body, such as enzymes, hormones, structural proteins, etc.
        
        It’s named after its function, messenger RNA. That is it carries the coding information from the genetic material (DNA in the nucleus) to the protein-making factories (the ribosomes) which are outside the nucleus in the cytosol of the cell.
        
        The mRNA vaccine is usurping this process by adding the coding information for the coronavirus spike protein (what it uses to dock onto our cells in order to infect them) to get the ribosomes to make the spikes which in turn are processed by the normal cellular machinery and presented to the immune system for checking. This identifies these as foreign proteins and goes on high alert and mounts an attack by producing antibodies (and other things) targeting these spike proteins.
        
        The immune system on one level can be a bit dumb. It doesn’t know that there is no actual virus there. And we have craftily exploited that stupidy for our own benefit.
        
        It’s a very elegant system and a clever new approach to making vaccines.
        
        No genetic material (DNA) is harmed or altered in the making of this or during the vaccination itself. And the mRNA strands themselves (the ones produced by the body or those in the vaccine) don’t last that long once made as they are been constantly turned over as part of the control of gene expression.
        
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        December 5, 2020 12:58pm
      - IC5000
        
        Any good sources on how this actually works?
        
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        December 5, 2020 1:25pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @RW Capitalist
        
        You are muddling up transcription and translation in an eucaryotic cell with the (perhaps) simpler process that occurs when a single-stranded RNA virus (Which the Covid-19 SARS-CoV-2 virus is) takes over the cell machinery in a eucaryote animal or plant.
        
        The mRNAs are small sections of the Viral Genome that code for specific proteins.
        
        This little item might make things clearer.
        
        http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/an-introduction-to-ribosomes-natures-busiest-molecular-machines/
        
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        December 5, 2020 3:05pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      The covid expert is back.
      
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      December 5, 2020 10:47am
    - JackRabbit
      
      The medical companies say they have a safe vaccine, even though it takes years to test a vaccine. So let them dose, in fact multi-dose x 5, themselves and their employees, their children, their grandchildren, their parents and grandparents.
      
      Have these tests audited / monitored so there is no sleight of hand, or people refusing to take it. If there are refusals, the tests, and the vaccine, should be terminated.
      Assuming 100% willingness to be vaccinated, monitor their DNA. If there is no sickness, or deaths, or health compromises, then and only then could it be considered safe.
      
      If they have so much faith in the vaccine, use their own family as Guinea Pigs, not other peoples families. It’s what Maurice Hilleman would have done.
      
      If our Government sanctions the new Covid-19 vaccine in this country, first test in the manner above with the entire Labour and Greens Party, and entire families, both old and young, being multi-dosed and tabulate the results, including how many refused to be vaccinated.
      
      Sadly, the majority of old people in aged care facilities that die from flu cluster deaths, were vaccinated from the flu. Many are incapacitated by the vaccination. The Polio epidemic racing through Africa was created by the Polio vaccine.
      
      Do you really want to create a Covid-19 second wave through a dodgy Vaccination?
      
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      December 5, 2020 10:58am
      - tf78
        
        I see Dear Leader has volunteered herself to have the vaccine publicly – fine by me, provided Dr Shane Reti selects and administers it.
        
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        December 5, 2020 11:38am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        I will take it, my wife is dying of PH and chronic heart failure…I do not want to hasten the process.
        But my observation:
        Fear they created around this disease combined with their hatred of Donald Trump (warp speed announcement that started this vaccine rush) has now caused a fear of taking the vaccine.
        
        A tangled web we weave when we first practice to deceive.
        
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        December 5, 2020 12:01pm
      - Miritu
        
        “I see Dear Leader has volunteered herself to have the vaccine publicly..”
        Make sure its for real, not like Queensland MP’s faked vaccine shot
        
        https://youtu.be/2sFI6aCjRdQ
        
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        December 5, 2020 12:24pm
      - Ian Hawthorn
        
        Which vaccine are you talking about. There are three quite different vaccines very close to release – two MRNA vaccines and a DNA vaccine. These are among 16 vaccines currently in stage 3 trials. There are 165 vaccines altogether in various places and stages of development.
        
        https://thevaccinetracker.com/
        
        People who talk about the evil effects of “the vaccine” without showing any apparent awareness that there are several have no credibility.
        
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        December 5, 2020 12:43pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @tf78
        
        The UK has enough vaccines for 5 for every man, women, child, and fence jumper. It looks like we will be going down a similar road. One is not enough if the public are expected to have 3. One is tokenism.
        
        I for one would be happier if multiple vaccine units were picked at random on the spur of the moment, from local doctors supplies by David Seymour, and administered by Shane to the entire family, young and old, for the entire treatment series. If anyone refuses, the entire vaccine shipment gets sent back. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
        
        History is littered with tokenism and leaders avoiding the treatment that they subject the public to.
        
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        December 5, 2020 1:24pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Ian Hawthorn
        
        “People who talk about the evil effects of “the vaccine” without showing any apparent awareness that there are several have no credibility.”
        
        This is not about being a “vaccine” expert. It is about evaluating risk, as every person should do. In fact it is about informed consent, as our own medical establishment advises.
        
        https://www.immune.org.nz/immunisation/immune-system-vaccination
        
        It is about the principles of science, how you test, the risks and the results. If I’m given a ticket for a plane flight on an aircraft that has never been off the ground, that is going to fly through the eye of the world’s biggest storm, and made by a company that has already crashed a few, I don’t have to understand aircraft design to politely refuse the flight.
        
        The vaccine tracker website is run by nerds, not medical professionals.
        
        It is not about a “evil” vaccine. It is about a vaccine that is untested, rushed through in a few months rather than years, in a period of history where vaccines are failing and in some cases creating the pandemic they were designed to prevent.
        
        We should not forget the history of new vaccines or even vaccines that by now should not create problems.
        
        We should not forget the Thalidomide babies or the current polio epidemic in Africa.
        
        https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/polio-vaccination-causes-more-infections-than-wild-virus-66778
        
        We should not gloss over the fact that Stage 3 testing has NOT yet been carried out, and that Stage 3 testing is going to be 10,000 members of the UK public.
        
        https://www.gov.uk/government/news/10000-uk-volunteers-to-take-part-in-new-covid-19-vaccine-trials
        
        https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54612293
        
        https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02821-4
        
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        December 5, 2020 1:47pm
      - IC5000
        
        > fine by me, provided Dr Shane Reti selects and administers it.
        
        Always funny when KBers think that what they want actually matters to others. Do you really think the PM even knows you exist let alone gives any consideration to what you want? Seriously?
        
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        December 5, 2020 2:37pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Make sure its for real,
        
        Not like Ashley Bloomfield’s nasal swab
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122410663/coronavirus-dr-ashley-bloomfield-gets-a-covid19-swab-test
        
        At their next meeting, testing was the main subject. “I had to bring it up. ‘Ashley, you need to fess up. You didn’t have a normal nasal. That one you did on television, that was a high-turbinate nasopharyngeal.’ Which is a hell of a lot easier, it’s the one we use with children. He rocked back in his chair and laughed. ‘How did you know that?’ he asked. I know things,” Reti said with a smile.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dr-shane-reti-on-leading-nationals-changed-covid-19-coronavirus-response/TPXY5CUWO27N66GQ2IGED2M3WU/
        
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        December 5, 2020 3:16pm
  - fernglas
    
    I now see I was wrong about the GM thing. At least that means the Greens won’t be letting people die , unlike the consequences of their moratorium on genetically modified food.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:57am
- kowtow
  
  Were any lab animals involved ?
  
  ( Other than the next phase of the experiment , the whole of Britain)
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Also with no guarantees as what affects it may have including possible transmission to the population at large. The former Fizer head is solidly against it.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:00am
  - JackRabbit
    
    The average development and testing phase of any vaccine is 5 years. The medical industry has so little understanding of Covid-19 that they cannot decisively knock it on the head, as evidenced by the massive number of deaths in the US.
    
    Yet the medical industry claims to have so much understanding, they have produced a ‘safe vaccine’ in just a few months.
    
    As a comparison, if KiwiBuild announced on Monday they have solved all their problems and can now build a house in 2 weeks, given that a normal build is 5-6 months, I’d be very suspicious.
    
    Given the mounting failures with Flu vaccines and more recent Polio vaccines, creating the actual Virus, how safe would it be to take a vaccine that has not been tested, and where you are the Guinea Pig?
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:22am
    - tf78
      
      Jackrabbit – Or did the vaccine arrive before Covid?!
      
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      December 5, 2020 11:39am
    - Ian Hawthorn
      
      A house can be built in 2 weeks. It is just more economic to build them more slowly.
      
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      December 5, 2020 12:45pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        A house could never be built in 2 weeks or 2 months by this lot. At the current rate of progress the 100,000 houses will be complete in 2421.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300021781/kiwibuild-will-take-more-than-400-years-to-reach-original-target
        
        So they should be very economic. However Kiwibuild had a budget of $2Bn and have built 400 hours, so a cost of $5M each. Very economic indeed!
        
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        December 5, 2020 1:54pm
    - chukar
      
      Caution is essential and must be mandatory.
      Think Thalidomide.
      Does anyone remember US Officers in Vietnam drinking agent Orange to prove how safe it was?
      
      Let us get the COVID-19 vaccine right first.
      
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      December 5, 2020 6:27pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Anything that modifies DNA or RNA technology is not how the body develops immunity.
  
  Covid-19 behaves more like a nanobot parasite, existing materially made up from components from the “host”. i.e. unlike normal human parasites, it has no distinct materials of its own, rather synthesizing its structure out of host materials.
  
  Covid-19 is also not like other viruses. No-one has been able to find a path of mutation from a previous Corona Virus. It also has inbuilt error correction, to prevent mutation away from the core template. The first virus to do so. Rather like a self-driving car.
  
  And since your average family sedan is never going to morph into a self driving car how is this possible?
  
  Additionally the minute electrical charge on the legs, which is how it attaches to the host, is effective at providing a bond to the host, at a distance of 10nm (10 nanometres). Previous Corona Viruses had to be as close as 1nm to electrically attach.
  
  Nothing like this has never been seen before in any virus from any animal group. This is puzzling scientists as to how the charge multiplied that many times without any evolutionary or adaptive incremental changes.
  
  Being not of animal or biological construction, it is more of a Nanite than anything else.
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:00am
  - Phronesis
    
    Sigh, sometimes the price we pay for freedom of speech is high.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:24am
    - JackRabbit
      
      In what way?
      
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      December 5, 2020 11:23am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is the charge getting the 45x multiplier treatment too that is giving most people false positives and controllers a lot of excitement?
    
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    December 5, 2020 11:22am
    - JackRabbit
      
      There is no doubt the charge from the vaccine companies to the public health system will be 45x.
      
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      December 5, 2020 11:29am
  - mark15
    
    It’s man-made.
    
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    December 5, 2020 11:53am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, it’s a worry. AT least we won’t get it until March maybe, so we can see how the rest of the world reacts. I see the story about how former presidents Obama, Clinton, and Bush are lining up to be the first to get the jab to prove to the rest of us that it’s OK. I can’t think of any better guinea pigs to test it on…. ?
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:20am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I can – Jacinda has also said she’ll take the vaccine in public.
    
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    December 5, 2020 11:32am
- Mrs_Right
  
  Also, former top Pfizer scientist Michael Yeadon claims COVID vaccines may cause infertility in women…
  
  https://orwell1984366490226.wordpress.com/2020/12/04/former-top-pfizer-scientist-michael-yeadon-claims-covid-vaccines-may-cause-infertility-in-women/
  
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  December 5, 2020 12:45pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “Also, former top Pfizer scientist Michael Yeadon claims COVID vaccines may cause infertility in women…”
    
    So they’re going to push the COVID vaccines in parts of the world where the birthrate is already cratering, then?
    
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    December 5, 2020 6:13pm
Surely Knott

Biden’s Confusing Fractured Foot Story:

“What happened was I got out of the shower. I got a dog and anybody who’s been around my house knows — dropped, little pup dropped a ball in front of me, and for me to grab the ball,” Biden explained.

“And I’m walking through this little alleyway to get to the bedroom, and I grabbed the ball like this and he ran,” Biden continued. “And I’m joking, running after him and grab his tail. And what happened was that he slid on a throw rug, and I tripped on the rug he slid on.”

1. He’s really struggling with the first part of the story – “anyone who’s been to my house knows …dropped..the pup dropped a ball”??
2. What is a little alleyway inside your house that connects a bedroom and a bathroom? Is that not a hallway? Did he forget the word hallway?
3. Who grabs a dog by the tail? Very lucky not to be bitten. .
4. No wonder the dogs confused it’s trying to play fetch, it drops the ball and runs waiting to field it and you grab the ball and start running after the dog?
“That’s what happened,” Biden said. “Oh man, not a very exciting story.”
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December 5, 2020 8:32am
- RJ
  
  Got out of shower, dog has a ball, ouch!!!
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:42am
  - kowtow
    
    We should be grateful he wasn’t giving it a bone.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:49am
- SGA
  
  Really it’s bone spurs 🙂
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:49am
- kowtow
  
  Hilary said she couldn’t keep her dog on the porch . Biden falls over his.
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The getting out of the shower bit seems a bit unnecessary in this story.
  
  He says has tripped on the throw rug in the hallway whilst playing with the dog…..
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:21am
  - Phronesis
    
    It was a killer Russian rug sent to assassinate him.
    
    But seriously, loose floor coverings are a known hazard to the elderly and infirm. If he really has them in his hallways then someone wants Kamala at the top sooner rather than later.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:29am
  - JackRabbit
    
    >”The getting out of the shower bit seems a bit unnecessary in this story…”
    
    Maybe not, but it tells us he was naked… Who plays with their dog naked, wouldn’t you get dressed first?
    
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    December 5, 2020 11:09am
    - lifesgood
      
      The whole story is a load of tosh. The thing is he simply can’t remember what happened. Par for the course with him, he’ll be forgetting his own name soon.
      
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      December 5, 2020 12:02pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Waking ~~Ned Devine~~ Joe Biden.
        
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        December 5, 2020 2:07pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’d at least dry off…
      
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      December 5, 2020 3:18pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Trump supporter explaining voter fraud:
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-donald-trump-campaign-witness-melissa-carone-the-star-of-fraud-hearing/VJA2GYLGRBBARNK4L3SQMRIXZQ/
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:54am
  - cha
    
    Surely the whole circus is another Baron Cohen send up.
    
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoaeWDqWMAgIxLm?format=jpg&name=small
    
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    December 5, 2020 11:21am
- Jax30
  
  Sorry down ticked by mistake
  
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  December 5, 2020 1:38pm
softail 1450

Any bets on which politician will jump the 1st class international flight when we are all immunized for covid?
The poor bastards like Cindy, Mallard, Shaw, Collins, Jackson, Bridges etc etc have been doing it hard for nearly a year without having their entitled arses on an aircraft seat.
Think about the 100s of thousands of dollars saved by not having Cindy flying all over the planet on Airforce one.
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December 5, 2020 8:33am
- RJ
  
  Nothing saved by the politicians not flying because of the billions they have pushed out because of covid, so save with one hand, taken with a much much bigger hand
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:41am
  - sooty
    
    What about the thousands of public servants wh missed out?
    
    8 1
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    December 5, 2020 11:11am
- The Feed
  
  It will be a Green.
  
  My bet is on Biggles Shaw.
  
  14 1
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  December 5, 2020 10:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Looks like NZ is closed again. Nothing happening
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December 5, 2020 8:40am
- Inandout
  
  SO, I was listening to the ‘builders show’ and one of the presenters went to an event and then stayed in a hotel later. He had time to spare so switched onto CNN ‘to see what is happening to Trumpy’.
  So was the hotel room TV locked onto CNN, does CNN feed Magic Radio, or was CNN just mentioned as an aside? Obviously this builder has not heard of Zucker and his instructions to staff at CNN; ‘don’t ever put Trump in a good light’.
  
  25 5
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  December 5, 2020 8:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah, but we’re at the start of a climate emergency.
  Gizzy is only going to reach 21C today…
  I’m off to raid pinecones in the neighbouring reserve..got to get them before some other shivering wretch finds them.
  
  42 4
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  December 5, 2020 9:03am
  - RJ
    
    Oh I wish we could reach 21, had the fire going one and off the past few weeks.
    
    16 4
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    December 5, 2020 9:38am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’m in Queenstown. Quiet. Lots of high end retailers with empty shops and sad faces. I’m surprised they are still operating. The locals tell me that a bunch of high end restaurants have closed or swapped out to new cheaper menus.
  
  One thing that has not changed here. All the hospitality places are staffed predominantly by foreigners.
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:08am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, my offspring are off to Queenstown on Boxing Day and expect the place to be humming; hope so.
    
    10 1
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    December 5, 2020 10:00am
  - Sacha
    
    Maybe the Queenstowners could create their own MIQ – fly in Aussies for a fortnight, keep them in quarantine while they go about their sporting business, and then fly them home again.
    
    If nothing else, the virus has shown us how our economy is built on tourist sand dollars.
    
    12 3
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    December 5, 2020 10:07am
    - MCos
      
      Mayor Bolt was aghast at the thought of their empty hotels being used for managed isolation.
      
      9 1
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      December 5, 2020 10:29am
      - gump
        
        Mayor Bolt is an idiot who has lead at least one major company into receivership.
        
        3 3
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        December 5, 2020 12:52pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  It’s shopping time before the Christmas rush.
  Mods need their time off too!
  
  Or…. no-one has anything worthwhile to say/share?
  
  8 3
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  December 5, 2020 9:26am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Good news Steve!
  
  Gaytearoa is dusting off and getting ready to go!
  
  Try not to be too disappointed that your white colonist better life outcomes history has come to smother you . . .
  
  18 5
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  December 5, 2020 9:29am
- Ralph
  
  Then go back to hibernating . Winter is obviously not over for you yet.
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:25am
Swifty

Recommended (some would say compulsory) viewing for all KBers who are recent arrivals to the country:

https://youtu.be/6UTc0g6Mv2M?t=159

🙂

An interesting look back at what was one of the absolute backbones of New Zealand’s developing economy but for some years now has been relegated to a low-value by product of the meat industry.
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December 5, 2020 8:41am
MCos

Not quite nothing happening
I was just reading about a young Kiwi writer who has a best selling book in the US.
#3 on NYT young adult hard cover list for a week is not bad for a first book.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/books/review/chloe-gong-these-violent-delights.html?referringSource=articleShare
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December 5, 2020 8:52am
- calendar girl
  
  Well said, MCos – it sounds like quite an achievement. (I’m disappointed though that he’s referred to as a “Kiwi Writer” rather than a New Zealander.)
  
  When is our country (and particularly its local media) going to drop this constant reference to our citizens as “kiwis”?
  
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  December 5, 2020 2:55pm
  - Paulie_
    
    Soon to be re-described as an Aotearoan writer
    
    2 1
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    December 5, 2020 4:05pm
Paulus

Yes, everywhere quiet and will be for a couple of month by the look of it.
Shopkeepers are going to be very unhappy I think as we for example will/have cut back our usual spending as superannuants
Cindy will love it as she will not have to pretend to do anything – Robertson is in training for the takeover which he has always wanted.
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December 5, 2020 9:00am
pdm

`Looks like NZ is closed again.’

Ardern Government resigns – mission accomplished!!
18 2
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December 5, 2020 9:00am
iMP

CHINA’s imperialism. It’s getting a bit scary.
I don’t want Biden, I want Trump!
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December 5, 2020 9:14am
Don Beckett

Electoral worker in Michigan swears that she witnessed massive voter fraud:

https://freepressers.com/articles/michigan-witness-carone-democrats-like-to-ruin-your-lives
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December 5, 2020 9:27am
- SGA
  
  That’s great Don.
  
  I am sure that the prison sentences for such massive fraud will be lengthy, and I look forward to the people doing this in Michigan (and those in the video from Georgia) being dragged before the courts and duly tried and sentenced. This seems a slam dunk eventuality. And, of course, there is a chance that the election results will be overturned.
  
  (On the other hand, this all might be smoke and mirrors, there hasn’t been massive election fraud, and neither will happen – what do you think?).
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:34am
  - RJ
    
    5000 witnesses is what Rudy has so far, any of them lying is 5 years in jail.
    
    Former military personal, former intelligence officer, people with legal backgrounds, businesses people, former local politicians, I doubt they will be lying and risking jail time. And the video, I doubt the security cameras will lie, not even sure how security cameras can do jail time, they don’t even work outside certain pedophile traffickers cells
    
    20 9
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    December 5, 2020 9:46am
    - SGA
      
      Excellent, the arrests for those committing these major crimes can’t be far away, can they?
      
      10 6
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      December 5, 2020 9:54am
      - RJ
        
        You have a month before the house votes and you’ll know who the president is
        
        6 4
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        December 5, 2020 10:16am
      - SGA
        
        True, but the arrests of those specific individuals caught by video and witnesses committing specific criminal acts can start before that. They aren’t contingent on each other – the evidence of their massive fraud is, well, massive.
        
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        December 5, 2020 11:17am
      - Paulie_
        
        American electoral justice is about effective as the New Zealand Electoral Commission
        
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        December 5, 2020 4:08pm
  - Andrei
    
    The other thing is the elected State legsilators are getting innundted with calls from infuriated constituents who turned up to vote on election day only to be told they had already voted by post using a postal ballot they never requested nor received
    
    And they are taking notice even if the alphbet cable news outlets are not
    
    Now here’s the thing it is the State legislators who choose actually the electors and the electors themselves can cast their votes anyway they choose.
    
    Methinks the Don is appealing to public opinion and the legislators rather than the courts to deal with this egregious and blatant theft of an election
    
    The swamp is being drained
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:03am
    - SGA
      
      Methinks the Don is appealing to public opinion and the legislators
      
      What choice does he have? For the most part Judges (even Republican appointed ones) are treating his teams efforts as a bit of a bad joke.
      
      However, time will tell. With so much inconvertible evidence of specific individuals committing specific crimes, there will be an extensive series of court cases followed by lengthy sentences for those who took any part in this massive fraud.
      
      3 7
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      December 5, 2020 10:48am
      - IC5000
        
        Trump can’t pump and dump Republican judges like he can with other politicians and sycophants. They’re probably think of Trump in the immortal words of Eminem “ I do know one thing though Bitches they come they go”.
        
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        December 5, 2020 2:47pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      I’m sure that those who don’t believe there was election fraud, would be mighty pissed to go to the bank to transfer their savings to go on holiday, only to be told someone else has withdrawn the funds, using a cheque-book that the account owner never requested or received.
      
      I guess their attitude to fraud and the law will change when the bank says there is no evidence of fraud, despite there being a video of the perp in the bank with the cheque-book withdrawing the funds.
      
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      December 5, 2020 11:16am
      - Happy1
        
        Carol Ann Smith checked up and found she was recorded as having already voted
        
        5 3
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        December 5, 2020 1:38pm
- bruceavon
  
  Not sure a testimony like that does anything for the case. A judge already declared her testimony not credible before she appeared. This adds to the Rudy’s clown show atmosphere with the proceedings.
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:37am
- fernglas
  
  Watch the clip. She’s drunk and barking mad. If that’s the best they can do, they should just give up now.
  
  10 25
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  December 5, 2020 9:43am
  - Inandout
    
    fernglas, have you listened to ‘unedited’ clips of Joe Biden lately?
    
    26 8
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    December 5, 2020 10:04am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Is Biden ranting in the media about election ‘fraud’?Or ranting about anything?
      
      7 13
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      December 5, 2020 10:45am
  - Andrei
    
    No she is angry and full of Mid West Sass
    
    8 4
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    December 5, 2020 11:37am
    - SGA
      
      full of Mid West Sass
      
      Does one drink that neat, or with a mixer? 🙂
      
      I don’t think that the even the Republican lawmaker talking to her took her seriously.
      
      2 3
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      December 5, 2020 3:23pm
- Ralph
  
  Don Becket , she was an embarrassment to Rudy and the Court with her incoherent almost drunken like rant ,
  
  WATCH: Rudy Giuliani’s hearing in Michigan gets so wild he ‘shushes’ his own witness
  
  “..Her name is Melissa Carone and she claimed she worked as a contractor for Dominion Voting Systems, although as Daily Beast pointed out, she seemed to struggle when asked to describe her job. And then she stood by a claim that a group of 30,000 voters were counted multiple times, stymying legislators who tried to figure out the basis for what she was saying…”
  
  https://www.radio.com/wwjnewsradio/news/local/watch-rudy-giulianis-hearing-in-michigan-gets-wild
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:36am
Benedict Yu

It will be fascinating to see how the government defines a “carbon neutral government”. Trying will be eye watering expensive but jacinda will see that as no barrier.

Think about it. The army, navy and airforce use lots petroleum. They can’t change. The police just bought an entire fleet of new petrol cars. DOC needs 4wds and utes.

So let’s move on to health. Hospitals use lots of cars for running around town. They are mainly little cars like Toyota Yaris. They will get these for about 20,000 dollars. If they are forced to buy EV, cost will go up. A lot. If their budget is not increased, they will need to cut health care services to pay for it.

Finally you have public servants travelling to work all over New Zealand. Most of them in cars. Are they going to be counted?

The bottom line is that Jacinda will be loading the public sector up with billions in additional costs to change energy inputs. It is certain. Because if carbon neutral energy mix was most efficient it would be there already. In turn, those costs can only be met by reducing services like hospitals, or higher debt, or higher taxes.

Has jacinda thought through these effects and tradeoffs? Why are not journalists asking these questions?
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December 5, 2020 9:29am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Journalists don’t ask those questions because their mission in life is to protect Cindy.
  
  41 2
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  December 5, 2020 9:57am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is only money, Taxpayer’s money, not Jaspinda’s money.
  Also the journalists have been told not to ask these questions
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  “Has jacinda thought…”
  
  Thinking is a tad challenging when ones mind is a fog of pseudo-communist, woke sound bytes.
  
  35 4
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  December 5, 2020 10:17am
- Waipuk
  
  Simple. Just buy carbon credits with taxpayer money. Tens of millions of dollars going overseas. It’s only taxpayer money.
  
  Taxpayer money like what was spent on all of those working groups, committees, and so on. I see their recommendations being implemented very day.
  
  Or look directly at the camera with a straight face and say it was an aspirational.
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:25am
emmess

Good morning to the fraud deniers out there

I haven’t heard any spin on the video evidence of fraud presented to the Georgia state legislature hearing yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keANzinHWUA

Downvote and reply if you think it is some sort of fake
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December 5, 2020 9:36am
- SGA
  
  That’s fantastic, emmess.
  
  I am sure that the prison sentences for such massive fraud will be lengthy, and I look forward to the people doing this in Georgia being dragged before the courts and duly tried and sentenced. This seems a slam dunk eventuality, they are identifiable in the video doing it. I imagine people are already being arrested by local, state or federal authorities. This is a major crime, after all. And, of course, there is a chance that the election results will be overturned.
  
  You might find this interesting, btw.
  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-recertifies-election-results-fulton-county-video
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:48am
  - Inandout
    
    SGA, you attempt to ‘normalise’ corrupt behaviour. This is a world most of us don’t want a bar of.
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:06am
    - SGA
      
      I am doing the exact opposite. Apparently there is conclusive evidence (video and witnesses) of specific people committing specific crimes (i.e., working to “rig” an election). Massive fraud of this kind is a very serious criminal offense. With so much evidence, surely it can only be a matter of time before specific individuals are charged (you’d expect the arrest warrants to be under way, wouldn’t you?).
      
      8 4
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      December 5, 2020 10:25am
      - emmess
        
        Well yes, I hope so and I hope they sing too
        The woman with the blonde braids ought to be very nervous right now
        
        3 2
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        December 5, 2020 2:47pm
      - SGA
        
        Exactly, emmess. I look forward to seeing her arrest announced. What would that mean for such evidence if she is still walking free.
        
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        December 5, 2020 3:27pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      But no evidence of corrupt behaviour has been presented to the courts. Numerous lawsuits have been dismissed. Republican lawyers have been reluctant to allege fraud in court, doubtless knowing that the evidence is not there and they could even be sanctioned for presenting false cases.
      
      5 19
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      December 5, 2020 10:47am
  - emmess
    
    Editor-in-Chief Alan Duke co-founded Lead Stories after ending a 26-year career with CNN
    
    Oh yeah totally legit
    
    12 2
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    December 5, 2020 10:38am
    - SGA
      
      Oh damn, they’ve got to Fox too now. Wow, this conspiracy is bigger than I thought. Thanks for the heads up. At least there are random Youtube clips and twitter messages to rely on.
      
      3 12
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      December 5, 2020 11:20am
- Ralph
  
  Good morning Trumpeters and voter fraud Cters,
  
  Georgia Election Head Says No Evidence Of Fraud In Second Recount, Slams Trump For ‘Violent Rhetoric’
  
  “As he criticized President Trump for creating a threatening environment for election officials, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said Wednesday authorities have found no evidence of fraud during the state’s second recount and indicated that President-elect Joe Biden’s victory will stand…”
  
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/12/02/georgia-election-head-says-no-evidence-of-fraud-in-second-recount-slams-trump-for-violent-rhetoric/?sh=960ea5c3689a
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:41am
  - emmess
    
    Great timing with that one
    
    https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2020/12/04/kemp-signature-audit-cites-fulton-video/3827380001/
    
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    December 5, 2020 2:50pm
Aunty

So much for herd immunity – more on the failed Swedish experiment and its consequences.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-sweden-closes-secondary-schools-as-second-wave-surges/XYQ5KTONJUAD3YSPNAJB6QGIAQ/
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December 5, 2020 9:37am
- emmess
  
  I call BS on that story
  
  Sweden is to shut upper secondary schools from next week as it tries to control a surge in coronavirus infections that has led to 209 deaths in the past two days alone.
  
  https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+covid+deaths&oq=sweden+covid+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0i433i457j0i433j0l3j69i60.9519j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  
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  December 5, 2020 9:50am
  - Ralph
    
    There is absolutely no sign Sweden has attained herd immunity and its principle advocate sidelined with a disaster has led in his wake,
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8996157/Health-expert-Swedens-no-lockdown-Covid-strategy-sidelined-government.html
    
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    December 5, 2020 10:46am
  - SGA
    
    I call BS on that story
    
    Maybe you should contact Reuters?
    https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-education/swedish-high-schools-switch-to-distance-learning-as-second-covid-wave-mounts-idUSS3N2CP02M
    
    6 5
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    December 5, 2020 10:54am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Well, Reuters don’t cover the Uighur XiHi concentration camps with any transparency, so why trust them in any field of reporting.
      
      5 4
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      December 5, 2020 2:31pm
    - emmess
      
      Perhaps, I should have been a bit more specific. It was the 209 deaths in two days that didn’t look right to me.
      
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      December 5, 2020 2:52pm
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Bullshit Aunty.
  
  Here is a thought experiment:
  
  Imagine if an urban myth arose that freckles were deadly and contagious.
  
  Most of the world decides to elimade [sic] freckles. Only the wise Swedish doctor is prepared to stand up to this bullshit. He says ‘do nothing, except perhaps avoid the sun’.
  
  The panic merchants globally spit the dummy – mostly because they have investments in freckle removal creme (which incidentally doesn’t really work except make a LOT of money for some).
  
  The world turns spitefully on the Swedish doctor who finally gives up and realises he has to elimate freckles, not to save lives, but to save the nation from pariah status – in international travel, trade and investment.
  
  So you ‘play the game’ and cleverly make students study from home with zoom.
  
  If you can’t understand now, then I give up. You are on the left-hand-side of the Bell Curve, or a property investor, or a beneficiary or a civil servant paid to do nothing.
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:22am
Rocky Jnr

This makes interesting viewing.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/selected-deaths-vs-covid-19-united-states
6 2
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December 5, 2020 9:52am
RJ

Governor Brian Kemp is calling on the Secretary of State’s office to conduct a signature audit of ballots after allegations of fraud in Georgia were presented at a Senate hearing./

https://www.cbs46.com/news/governor-kemp-calls-on-ga-sos-to-conduct-signature-audit-of-ballots/article_d6ab0aba-35f0-11eb-8713-834ffd0b8200.html
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December 5, 2020 9:55am
- Fletch
  
  He really needed to call for a special session of the legislature, too, which he refuses to do. There’s no way an accurate determination can be made as to who won there.
  
  9 4
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  December 5, 2020 10:36am
  - RJ
    
    Yeah, but the pressure is on him now and he isn’t happy, I think he will call shortly
    
    6 4
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    December 5, 2020 11:59am
lazza

“Gangs ands Guns … 355 shot in the City “- scream the headlines.

Labour’s failures … Homelessness-Housing documented by KB.

An economy out of kilter and on the slide with crucial tax reforms “off the table” … a Reserve Bank out to lunch and a Cabinet with 19 out of 20 of them totally devoid of economic and commercial credentials .

What a toxic brew coupled to this useless woke, incompetent, amateur’s-hour bunch of no hopers to try to run the show.

3 long years of socialism mixed with declining productivity initiative and morale.

Best tactic … hunker down folks its about to get rough in 2021.
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December 5, 2020 9:56am
lazza

Hey DB quote:

Electoral worker in Michigan swears that she witnessed massive voter fraud:

Errr? massive? Says who? Whats “massive” Sufficient to overturn a President in Waiting.

Nahh mate. You have to be dreaming OK?
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December 5, 2020 10:00am
Sacha

Yesterday I heard (again) how people were living in their cars and how they couldn’t find jobs –
One young man was particularly angry because he had invested $7k (borrowed) in training as a barrista in an effort to improve his station in life, and now couldn’t find a job and was sleeping in his car.
If he had invested in getting trade training he would probably have all the work he could fit into a 7-day week, and be a contributing member of society. His self esteem would be pretty high.
If there’s one thing that young people should be registering, it is that service jobs in the tourist industry are the first to go in times of uncertainty. They are the jobs that YOU do when you go travelling, not the stuff of successful careers at home.
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December 5, 2020 10:18am
- lifesgood
  
  $7K to train as a barista??? What an idiot, You can get a job in a cafe and learn on the job which is what most people do. I know several young people who have learnt on the job before anyone tells me I am wrong.
  
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  December 5, 2020 12:09pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I learned to bartend on the job from Day One, at the Ellerslie Racecourse while I was still too young to drink EtOH legally. A great education in many ways. And a superb hourly rate with tips…
    
    11 1
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    December 5, 2020 2:28pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘They are the jobs that YOU do when you go travelling, not the stuff of successful careers at home.’
  
  Agree ,but successive govts’ policies contradict that as they put so much faith in the tourism industry which turned New Zealanders into impoverished waitresses for newly wealthy Asians and our world class best practice immigration system deemed retail and cooking “managers” to be a high skills category ……
  
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  December 5, 2020 2:14pm
Maggie Pie

NZH trending…

“Serious Fraud Office silent over Mayor Phil Goff election expenses”

Why have the SFO suddenly become all Koi ?
32 5
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December 5, 2020 10:33am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, you are supposed to parrot ‘show me the evidence’.
  
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  December 5, 2020 10:59am
- IC5000
  
  You mean like the Japanese Carp?
  
  2 8
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  December 5, 2020 2:55pm
Phronesis

Just occasionally, early on a Saturday morning when some poor sod was all alone in the office, the MSM actually manages to report something approaching the truth.

“We say to the State, Fonterra and Bathurst Resources that they must be honourable treat partners and honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi…”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/activists-locked-tracks-coal-protest
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December 5, 2020 10:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The defence of Climate Emergency can now be raised to to justify their stupid, dangerous actions.
  Mr Plod, as usual is standing by.
  
  15 3
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  December 5, 2020 11:32am
  - calendar girl
    
    Mr Plod should do his duty by forcibly removing (if necessary) protestors who halt legal infrastructure activities and impede a business (publicly-owned NZ Rail in this instance) carrying out its legal business activities.
    
    7 1
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    December 5, 2020 4:02pm
Maggie Pie

Trump is a genius.
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December 5, 2020 10:51am
- alwyn
  
  So he has told us Maggie.
  Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ………………zzzzzzzzz.
  Now in the real world the truth is that the man is a monumental flake. We only have to survive him for another 46 days though.
  
  7 13
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  December 5, 2020 12:53pm
  - kowtow
    
    “We” , Kimosabi ?
    
    10 3
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    December 5, 2020 2:15pm
    - Mike
      
      ‘we’, being the members of the rational community.
      
      4 5
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      December 5, 2020 5:33pm
GazzaW

The Dow Index closed on a record high of 30,218 this morning. Read into that what you will.
8 1
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December 5, 2020 11:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ridiculous. It’s no measure of value.
  
  5 7
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  December 5, 2020 11:33am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  I read into it that lemmings gonna lemming until unexpectedly! the ground vanishes from under their feetses.
  
  Disclaimer: I ain’t rich, so whadda I know 🙂
  
  7 1
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  December 5, 2020 2:27pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The component stocks of the Dow are changed over time. The Dow of today is not the Dow of a decade ago.
  But you knew that already.
  
  6 0
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  December 5, 2020 6:21pm
Inandout

‘Eight people have locked themselves to a Dunedin train track, blocking a train in a protest against coal.

A coalition of climate activists known as Coal Action Network Aotearoa (CANA) locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway Station about 7.30am on Saturday in an attempt to stop the daily coal train running from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine in Southland to Fonterra’s Clandeboye milk factory in Temuka.

About 20 people were on the track, including eight who were locked to it.

Environmental Justice Ōtepoti (Dunedin) member Fiona Clements said her whakapapa was on the line’.

I think Stuff have apologised in advance for this racist behaviour by Fonterra.
25 3
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December 5, 2020 11:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  If their justification is the lame one of activist Maori rights they all should be arrested without bail.
  
  21 5
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  December 5, 2020 11:35am
- JackRabbit
  
  I guess none of these people drink milk or lattes, or eat yoghurt, cheese, ice cream, other dairy products, or use dairy by-products.
  
  I’m not sure I’d chain myself to a train track if I was a vegan. Fig leaves don’t provide much protection from the cold, and dandelion chains aren’t that strong.
  
  15 2
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  December 5, 2020 11:39am
- kowtow
  
  At the moment in Daft Dunners the temp is 14.5 C , half a degree below the December average . I don’t see any climate emergency there .
  
  It’s (happily) about to piss down heavily so I expect the Climate Warriors to either don waterproof flax rain gear ( certainly not plastics as that would make them hypocrites) or to just fuck off having made their point in front of the Farmers’ Market , hessian shopping bag totting , sandal wearing , beardie academics who make up the majority of punters there…….
  
  18 4
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  December 5, 2020 12:08pm
- RJ
  
  Clandeboye Is moving away from coal, shame the protestors don’t know this. Their plan is to moving to burning wood instead which will mean firewood shortages for everyone in the area as frontera buy it up
  
  9 2
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  December 5, 2020 1:54pm
cha

The rats are abandoning ship..

“If you look at the vote totals in the Electoral College tally, it looks like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will prevail. I assume the electors will certify that and it will be official. We, as a nation, will move forward, because we always do.”

Conway also pledged to work with “future administrations,” saying: “If there’s anything I can ever do to help … they can count on me.”

https://19thnews.org/2020/12/kellyanne-conway-acknowledges-it-looks-like-joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-will-prevail/
3 7
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December 5, 2020 11:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  President Trump has an onerous duty to uphold the Declaration of Independence. He only has to be personally satisfied and cut through the legal argy bargy to declare an emergency (real, not Climatic Cindy).
  
  Sometimes facts or law cannot be proven to a defined degree but the stench requires action. [What were those people doing apparently processing votes after they had chased the scrutineers out?] This is commonly seen in tax matters where a discretion is given which can completely remove any bill. That doesn’t require the formal proofs but an opinion is sufficient for action to see that a fair outcome results that such proofs may not yield.
  
  4 3
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  December 5, 2020 5:04pm
  - Mike
    
    That must be just about the most stupid comment you have ever made.
    
    2 8
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    December 5, 2020 5:37pm
  - cha
    
    President Trump has an onerous duty to uphold the Declaration of Independence. He only has to be personally satisfied and cut through the legal argy bargy to declare an emergency
    
    *snort*
    Have you ever wondered why Team Trump keeps filing lawsuits despite losing badly?
    
    Diaper Donnie’s upholding is his own fucking pocket.
    
    The FEC filing, which covers the period from Oct. 15 through Nov. 23, classified about $8.8 million in expenses as “recount” related.
    
    Legal consulting was the campaign’s second-biggest recount expense, according to the disclosure report. The first was $3 million to pay the cost of a partial recount in Wisconsin that ended up increasing Biden’s lead by 87 votes. The third largest recount expense was nearly $2.2 million for text message advertising as the campaign bombarded his supporters with requests for money.
    The legal effort has been a powerful fundraising tool. Trump’s campaign reported that it had raised more than $207 million since the election.
    
    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-election-trump-expenses/trump-campaign-spent-more-than-2-million-on-election-lawyers-including-jenna-ellis-idUSKBN28E2VG
    
    4 4
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    December 5, 2020 6:15pm
    - Mike
      
      Yep it’s a scam. The credulous rubes will be rushing to donate to TRUMP 2024! as well.
      
      3 5
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      December 5, 2020 6:40pm
igm

Has macular degeneration research funding been withdrawn?
Maybe the reason being that white people have a far higher incidence rate than current government’s preferred people!
13 7
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December 5, 2020 11:57am
- IC5000
  
  Don’t worry the private sector and the free market will take care of everything. You don’t need the gummit for anything.
  
  5 8
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  December 5, 2020 2:53pm
  - igm
    
    This is not a government, it is a decadent disgrace and insult to those who have fought for, worked for, and paid taxes.
    No decent person derserves these disreputable, fiscally dyslexic, unemployable failures in all facets of life, controlling their taxes.
    
    7 5
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    December 5, 2020 3:37pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Has macular degeneration research funding been withdrawn?.
  
  Have you heard/read something to suggest this is happening?
  
  (Genuine question…genuine interest in AMD)
  
  9 2
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  December 5, 2020 3:41pm
  - igm
    
    Just happened to hear a little bit of gossip but do not know whether factual or not.
    With problems in our health system, especially prioritising waiting lists by ethnicity, one wonders where the hell anything is going!
    
    3 3
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    December 5, 2020 6:35pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Well, three years or so ago this lot nixed funding for cochlear implants so I’d say it’s par for the course for this bunch.
    
    3 0
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    December 5, 2020 9:43pm
  - igm
    
    My informants tell me Macuvision, a treatment for this terrible disease, has also had its funding withdrawn, with many users unable to afford it any longer, causing the problem to escalate.
    
    0 0
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    December 6, 2020 7:44am
lifesgood

I got the local Courier newspaper (stuff owned) with 3 pages including the front of woke nonsense. I feel contaminated.
27 5
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December 5, 2020 12:11pm
- marleybob
  
  Same, I opened the latest Hauraki herald to, We Are Sorry bullshit, didn’t go any further, be the last time I will open that rag.
  
  11 1
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  December 5, 2020 4:01pm
- Mike
  
  DomPost is always a good read on a Saturday morning.
  
  1 7
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  December 5, 2020 5:41pm
Fletch

Trump files lawsuit in Georgia to overturn election result.

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/trump-lawsuit-georgia-overturned/2020/12/04/id/1000086/

I’d say he has good reason.
15 8
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December 5, 2020 12:16pm
- oob
  
  That’s because you’re a dribbling moron.
  
  3 9
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  December 5, 2020 6:33pm
Alan Wilkinson

Yet another stuff up by Dunedin police:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dunedin-party-attack-charged-mans-19-months-of-anguish-before-case-dismissed-at-trial/F52WTEDPQHELFQ472IAOIIFIGQ/
9 3
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December 5, 2020 12:55pm
mark15

Is there an easy way of finding out what bills have been introduced by certain MPs?
5 1
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December 5, 2020 1:32pm
- Steve Todd
  
  You could start with these two links.
  
  Most bills are government bills, in the name of the relevant minister.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/
  
  These are the members’ bills that were in the last ballot—
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/proposed-members-bills/document/52HOOOCBallot202007301/members-bills-ballot-for-thursday-30-july-2020.
  
  6 1
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  December 5, 2020 3:33pm
Milhous

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/04/facebook-posts/no-georgia-election-workers-didnt-kick-out-observe/

And once again , what was touted as iron clad proof of fraud turns out to be a fizzer.

It’s become clear that the Trump campaign is using these fake examples of “evidence “ to maintain the funding momentum for his post election PAC….and as per the script the useful idiots and swivel eyes loons are playing right along.
8 14
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December 5, 2020 2:37pm
- Andrei
  
  I rate your post as false – the arbiter of the veracity of these claims is not some partisan “fact checker” such s polifact but the laws of the State of Georgia, the USA and the Constitution itself.
  
  Quite clearly that woman announced that counting was ceasing for the night and this was due to a broken pipe, which was reported at the time on all Networks – so your fact check is just regurgitated spin from self interested parties who hopefully will be going to jail soon
  
  12 11
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  December 5, 2020 3:03pm
  - Milhous
    
    Yeah it’s just that the argument and rationale in that article is compelling compared to the never prosecuted , consistently debunked rinse and repeat fantasies that you have just re espoused.
    
    5 11
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    December 5, 2020 3:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Just watch the footage which is readily available.
  
  Whatever the excuse for leaving, after the scrutineers left (you can see the reluctantly go) crates of votes which had been well hidden were dragged out and run through the machines.
  
  11 6
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  December 5, 2020 4:49pm
- RJ
  
  So your source of this is Facebook whose owner donated $350 million to those responsible for counting the votes and changing the rules around the votes. I guess when a thief stands up in court you believe the thief just wasn’t stealing anything it was just left there and no one wanted it, but the house was unlocked. Forget the witnesses who were told to leave they must be wrong to because idiots would rather ignore evidence and claim there is no evidence because Facebook and Twitter told you so.
  
  9 4
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  December 5, 2020 4:54pm
  - Milhous
    
    Errr. The source isn’t Facebook!
    
    Why don’t you read it. It quotes Republicans who are actually in Georgia and have investigated this.
    
    The source’s credentials and references are linked in the article….hence the credibility is streets ahead of the “I saw a suitcase on YouTube” nutbars posting here.
    
    2 8
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    December 5, 2020 5:21pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/FVyHw-85mIo/

Georgia Governor Orders Ballot Audit.

The governor has done this on the basis of evidence presented.
They had previously ‘certified’ the vote. Act in haste, repent in leisure.
Then they saw the surveillience video showing workers moving
suitcases full of ‘votes’ from under tables and counting them
once the observors had left. Unfortunately, they forgot about
the security cameras. If the SCOTUS decide its outcome
determinative, Trump wins.
10 7
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December 5, 2020 2:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  FB fact checkers still say this did not happen – no suitcases of ballots, and yet I have seen it. Dragged over to the machine and actioned after everyone but 4 was told to leave.
  FB fact checkers are not worth a tin of shit
  
  13 6
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  December 5, 2020 4:26pm
  - RichardX
    
    That is what you have been told you have seen.
    
    5 5
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    December 5, 2020 6:40pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Silly crims forgot 4 cameras giving a very clear view of the processing room. The cameras were running continuously and consistent footage can be dialled up to a fraction of a second.
  
  13 6
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  December 5, 2020 4:44pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Drrh. They forgotted the cameras. What a slueth you are Kev.
    
    5 11
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    December 5, 2020 5:10pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8coiNJi8k

US Passes an Act That Can Kick Out Any Chinese Company From US Stock Exchanges.

Having been passed by the Senate in May itself, and now by the House of Representatives too, the Act seeking delisting of Chinese firms is awaiting President Trump’s signature, which would turn it into a law. President Trump will happily sign the same. The presitator will not be amused. Some readers might want to call their broker.
6 2
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December 5, 2020 2:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The United Spot. Now settle down girls – this is satire so don’t get your panties all twisted.
Love Kamala’s shirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXK-GWIcrqI&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0J_aWXGH6HwwNNg_gaB3wnBIQ1larvqG63xOtMvanxJjSD_VGy7qMLmSc
4 9
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December 5, 2020 2:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is how socialism fucks with your head. The day I conform will be the bloody day. Come on sheep, play the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8BkzvP19v4&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1txeqNyUlQmxr_AquAR3V3O8Md_nd-bxXgzb2N8hwncY44AEymcNptwUs
10 7
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December 5, 2020 3:11pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Which one were you Steve?
  
  2 12
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  December 5, 2020 5:20pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Brian, I was the one taking the video.
    Busted sonny LOL
    
    7 3
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    December 5, 2020 5:33pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Did not even downtick you buddy, pathetic attempt at humour
      
      7 3
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      December 5, 2020 5:35pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Sorry to get under your skin Steve. Here’s a little more to disrupt your fantasies.
        
        https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/joe-biden-officially-secures-enough-electors-to-become-us-president/ar-BB1bEbTB?ocid=msedgdhp
        
        3 5
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        December 5, 2020 9:11pm
Waipuk

Build Back Better

When a number of world leaders and also Jacinta Ardern plus UN committees and the World Economic Forum keep using the same phrase it worries me.

https://youtu.be/5oKWkiIJaoo

But of course there will be lots of public discussion and input before any plans are made
12 1
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December 5, 2020 5:14pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Disappointing that Boris J. using the same phrasing and propaganda even though from a different side of the political spectrum – they are all using the same propaganda phrasing and working to a predetermined global agenda.. It really does show that as batshit crazy as Trump is, he is the only one marching to his own drum and was a genuine disrupter and individual.
  
  4 1
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  December 5, 2020 7:27pm
RJ

Canada what the hell has happened to you

https://twitter.com/randyhillier
2 3
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December 5, 2020 8:37pm
RJ

Interesting, company might be in trouble

“We are the people’s company & proud of it, so we’re dropping $105,891.40 in value from the sky in Aotea Square at 12pm on Saturday the 5th. Yes, ACTUAL MONEY will be flying from the sky,”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123612850/anger-violence-after-fake-money-handed-out-in-100k-cash-drop
3 4
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December 5, 2020 8:50pm
- BananaLlama
  
  Downtick for linking stuff.
  
  2 4
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  December 5, 2020 10:04pm
- V
  
  Remember the idiots who attended this get to vote. Perpetually disappointed that the free lunch didn’t materialize.
  Seriously you would have to be embarrassed to be one of the idiots agreeing to be interviewed.
  
  What the hell happened to NZers ability to think critically?
  
  2 0
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  December 6, 2020 2:39am
- greybeard
  
  So we now know that some people are dishonest and a lot of people are greedy and stupid.
  
  2 0
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  Report
  December 6, 2020 7:44am

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