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December 1, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 December 2020

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General Debate

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Ian Boag

Another good property anecdote …

Turangi was once a hydro town when the Tongariro power scheme was built. So it has a lot of basic ex-MoW hydro houses. 10 years ago these typically sold for more than $50k and less than $100k. This story is about a 2-br one that had been used as a holiday home – not uncommon. It sold in 2017 for $130k and in 2020 for $340k. AFAICT nothing much was done to it.

Turangi … wow …
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December 1, 2019 10:15am
Maggie Pie

‘Stuff’ should take a leaf out of David Cunliffe’s book and apologise for pretending to be a news organization.

Just saying.
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December 1, 2020 8:02am
- surfing
  
  Must be embarrassing to say you work there.
  
  Laughing stock.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:02am
  - freethinker
    
    Nobody works at $1Stuff they just attend & regurgitate the same lefty shite.
    
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    December 1, 2020 8:29am
  - Cobolt24
    
    According to Sean Plunkett yesterday, some people working at Stuff are embarrassed by all this.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:34am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I was proud to be a Herald delivery boy 54 years ago. Now I’d be very embarrassed if I was one.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:59am
- rouppe
  
  Isn’t that what they did?
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:19am
- jacob
  
  “I’m sorry for being a journalist”
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:20am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Said no $1uff employee – there are no journalists working there.
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:33am
  - Fletch
    
    Mike Hosking said on his show yesterday that he himself wasn’t a journalist and doesn’t pretend to be one…
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:36am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Word on the street is that their subscription line was ringing off the hook yesterday; with cancellations.
  
  Once circulation and readership starts to drop, advertisers will pull their spend or adjust their budgets downwards, and once that happens, there’s no going back.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:22am
  - G152
    
    The trouble is that all the trades people will be made unemployed through no fault of their own
    
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    December 1, 2020 8:30am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Tony,
    Cant say I am surprised to hear that.
    I deleted their apps and website from the various devices I used as soon as I saw yesterdays banner.
    The entity will be worth less than a buck now.
    
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    December 1, 2020 8:35am
    - sooty
      
      They certainly paid too much for stuffed, to let the kiddies run it!
      Onyone with a few clues should be out the door as quick as they can find a new job!
      
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      December 1, 2020 8:44am
      - Jimmy White
        
        Stuffs Stuffed
        
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        December 1, 2020 10:58am
    - KiwiSapper
      
      Very ironic as it was bought for that same amount, $1.
      
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      December 1, 2020 8:53am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Many would argue that Sinead Boucher paid too much for Stuff…
        
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        December 1, 2020 4:36pm
  - Ronin
    
    Then Cindy will bail it out (with tax payers money), because capitalism has failed.
    
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:15am
  - Fletch
    
    The only reason I go there is for the daily quiz…
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:37am
    - Flossie
      
      Me too!
      
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      December 1, 2020 10:50am
      - Unity
        
        I like the puzzles page.
        
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        December 1, 2020 11:23am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Find the Truth from the Liberal bullcrap
      
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      December 1, 2020 10:59am
  - Justitia
    
    I cancelled our remaining Saturday-only subscription this morning. You are directed to Stuff’s call centre in the Philippines(?) for this service. The lady asked if I was cancelling “because of yesterday’s content”. I replied that and more besides. I was passed on to a further person who again asked why I was cancelling. I said I was tired of woke bullshit posing as journalism. She said all comments were being passed on to the editorial team. After discussing subscription refund modalities I thanked her and hung up. I now feel somehow cleansed by no longer having this offensive matter coming into our house.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:29am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, have you a spare dollar for a media mendicant?
  ‘Make a contribution from as little as $1 and help safeguard trustworthy, independent journalism.’
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:25am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Die Stuff die.
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:34am
  - Biscuit
    
    Inandout, I find it amusing that the begging note you cite gives you just three options:
    
    Yes, I’ll throw as little as $1 your way
    No, I’ve already done that
    or
    Remind me later
    
    The option I’d tick (‘No, I’ll just keep looking for free in the hope that at some time in the future your journalism standards become worthy of my financial support’) never appears.
    
    I live in hope though…
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:35am
    - Biscuit
      
      Further to that, I was in Wikipedia just before and they, too, are on the scrounge.
      
      Some delicious wording, too: I mean how long before the ‘trustworhy’ and ‘independent’ journalists at Stuff pinch the ‘for the 1st time recently’ line?:
      
      To all our readers in New Zealand,
      It might be awkward, but please don’t scroll past this. This Tuesday, for the 1st time recently, we humbly ask you to defend Wikipedia’s independence. 98% of our readers don’t give; they simply look the other way. If you are an exceptional reader who has already donated, we sincerely thank you. If you donate just $2.75, Wikipedia could keep thriving for years. Most people donate because Wikipedia is useful. If Wikipedia has given you $2.75 worth of knowledge this year, take a minute to donate. Show the volunteers who bring you reliable, neutral information that their work matters. Thank you.
      
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      December 1, 2020 1:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Wikipedia has always been funded by donations. It’s an amazingly successful project, if you think about it.
        
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        December 1, 2020 2:33pm
      - Crisplion
        
        I used to donate to Wikipedia each year because it was a reliable and very useful source of information. It still is on many, many topics. However I now feel conflicted about supporting it financially because of what I perceive to be increasingly politicised biographical information.
        
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        December 1, 2020 3:08pm
      - jgw739
        
        Wikipedia is worth the investment to be fair… prior to that is was a case of buying the Encyclopedia Brittanica for a small fortune for out of date information.
        
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        December 1, 2020 7:02pm
- peterwn
  
  Are they saying that the Blunder Brothers (as a student newspaper called the Blundell Brothers – the founders) blundered?
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:56am
- Loddenthinks
  
  $1uff displayed today that they have no concept of statistical analysis or even basic maths, self-flagellating about their “raaacist” article 21 years ago about the profile of the typical driver involved in car accidents in the Waikato.
  
  “Figures shared in the story said Māori made up 27.4 per cent of the population of Waikato, and young male Māori were the drivers in 28.5 per cent of fatal crashes.
  
  The story did not say who made up the larger 71.5 per cent of people who were drivers in fatal crashes.
  
  Tamatea said the stats gave readers an “incomplete picture”.
  
  “I’m thinking what is missing here, for example, it also says drivers were likely to be unemployed, 24 per cent, so that means 76 per cent are employed, so they would be the more risky group.
  
  “So that would suggest this is a minority, in the risky group category, that the story is highlighting.””
  
  $1uff seems to be saying that the 28.5% of fatal crashes that were caused by young male Maori was somehow proportionate to the percentage of the Waikato population that were Maori (27.4%).
  
  I guess if the only Maori in Waikato were young and male, that idea might (almost) stand up, but of course that’s not the case. To determine to what extent young male Maori were over- or under-represented in fatal crash statistics, all you have to do is determine what percentage of car drivers in the Waikato are young, male Maori.
  
  Let’s say that 50% of the Maori in Waikato are female; now they are over-represented by a factor of more than 2. Then you have to work out how many Maori are car drivers, so you can exclude everyone under 16, and you also need a definition of “young”.
  
  We can assume that the definition of “young” is 16 – 25, which the insurance companies tell us is the age-range that’s most at risk. Their premiums and excess drop off sharply after the age of 25, and insurance under-writers have a very good handle on where the risk is.
  
  Let’s be charitable and say that a quarter of all drivers are in the “young” category; now we find that young, male Maori drivers are over-represented in fatal crash statistics by a factor of more than 8.
  
  Pretty raaacist, those stats, eh?
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:02am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    While you’re right to criticise Stuff’s dodgy statistics, ‘the factor of more than 8’ calculation is itself dodgy.
    
    A proper comparison would match sub-sets of Maori and non-Maori: ie, assuming driving hours etc are equal, the correct comparison is with young, male non-Maori drivers. My guess is that will be lower than eight.
    
    When I look at all the supporting reports, there’s enough evidence to justify an overall apology. Will this will lead to more balanced reporting or just wokeism on steroids? I don’t know.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:52am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      We’re both right to the extent that more detailed analysis is required, and as far as that goes your “guess” is no more or less valid than my “estimate”.
      
      It’s pretty easy to work out what data is needed, but less easy to find that exact data especially after more than 20 years, but my point still stands and I’m sure you’re not refuting it. Young, male, Maori drivers were grossly over-represented in fatal crash statistics in the Waikato in 1999. You can dance on the head of a pin and say that they were over-represented by a factor of 6, 7, 8 or more (I’d wager it’s more), but you can’t rationally argue that the article was neither racist nor inaccurate.
      
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      December 1, 2020 2:46pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        Agree that the article was inaccurate and misleading, but think it statistically naive rather than racist.
        
        Now waiting for Stuff’s crusade against all the racist handouts and racist legislation diluting democratic representation and decision making.
        
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        December 1, 2020 6:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @ Loddenthinks
    Thank goodness our journalists are innumerate…
    Imagine if we were subject to your detail of analysis each time we read an article…
    we might end up being INFORMED.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:54am
- hullkiwi
  
  Saw TV1 news about this last night. Why don’t they call it what it is, REVISIONIST HISTORY?
  
  Simon D spoke briefly to One News Maori Affairs reporter, who dabbled on about needing more Maoris in the news teams with an appreciation of the Maori perspective (or bias to most people).
  
  They also interviewed Hone (John) Harawera about his (and his mates) assault on the Rngineering School Concert Party in late April/early May 1979*.
  Harawera accused the Auckland Star of printing an inflammatory and racist headline with “Maori Gang Rampage at Auckland University”.
  
  Harawera’s version of events was, he and some associates went to the University to have a 3 minute conversation with the Engineering Students.
  
  The fact, that some of the students had to attend Auckland Hospital to get their injuries attended to, seems to have escaped Harawera’s memory.
  
  *For the record, somebody tipped off Harawera and his mates about the Engineering School Concert part, and their piece in the Auckland University Capping Revue in 1979. The conversation that Harawera and his mates had with the engineering students, was to beat the c**p out of them. The consequence was, that then AUSA president Janet Roth (a known Marxist) wouldn’t condemn what happened and was rolled by the student body. In the by-election that followed, Roth was replaced by a then Engineering student by the name of Kevin Hague. The rest, as they say is history.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:31am
gravedodger

The current surge in house prices across NZ Inc is “The fault of the People”.
Crikey does that take blame shifting to new heights?

Is it true Cinderella slumped into her Coach just as the clock struck midnight?
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December 1, 2020 8:05am
- Simon
  
  Where is Collins on Cindy’s garbage ? Or is she being censored?
  
  Before Cindy blamed capitalism on house prices. Now Cindy is outta ideas.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:43am
  - curry4me
    
    Simon: David Seymour is the Leader of the Opposition now. JC is the nominal one.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:56am
- MCos
  
  Who, on a personal level, is actually disappointed with the rising house prices apart from people trying to buy a first home, which is a small percentage of the population?
  Banks?
  Real estate businesses?
  Mortgage brokers?
  Property investors/speculators?
  Home owners with or without a mortgage?
  Property developers?
  Construction industry in general?
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:04am
  - Notsofast
    
    Several categories, eg people who would like a home but have no deposit so can’t look, people with one house and 4 children etc.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:27am
    - MCos
      
      As I said
      
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      December 1, 2020 1:21pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Renters. Not a small percentage of the population. Not disappointed – devastated.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:12am
    - MCos
      
      I’d agree with that, but I wonder how many people on this forum are renters?
      
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      December 1, 2020 1:23pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Still she will win 2023 election with a majority and that is all it matters.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:35am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I’ll bet you an edible hat made of bacon that she will not. If she wins I’ll eat my hat.
    
    If she loses I’ll still eat my hat, because, bacon!
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:01am
    - Paulus
      
      She will be gone well before the next election – Robertson to take the fall – already underway.
      
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      December 1, 2020 2:26pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I don’t know if she slumped into her coach, but she appears to have fewer functioning brain cells than a pumpkin.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:35am
I remember when

Did it say Joe Biden hurt his foot playing with his dog.
Or was it, Biden ‘dogged’ by sore foot.
Remember those efforts to show that he was ‘fit’ to be President during his campaign.
Can happen, when you start by lifting your left foot the suddenly wonder (or even very, very slowly wonder) “what do I do next?”
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December 1, 2020 8:05am
- Inandout
  
  Irw, then the media pack diverted by saying Trump didn’t really have C19. A Biden moon boot might bring a bit of sympathy from chiropodists.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:29am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Joe Biden – putting the Dem back in dementia. 😆
    
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    December 1, 2020 12:02pm
- freethinker
  
  Over at YSB there was a report the Joes fractured foot was caused by a suitcase of $$$$$$ from China being dropped on his left foot.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:33am
  - Goon
    
    Word on the jie has it they have also dropped one of the d’s out of the Forbidden City
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:38am
  - C J Southern
    
    If so then it says far more about YSB and the people there who believe it than it does about Biden.
    
    And yes – I know it was intended as a “joke” but 99% of what I’ve read about the US elections from those types of places is equally as stupid … and people ARE taking it as fact.
    
    Most these days seem completely incapable of differentiating between “what they would like to see happen” and “what is actually happening”; they have no objectivity and compensate with copious quantities of cognitive dissonance.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:57am
    - Don Beckett
      
      So all those indicators of massive fraud are figments of peoples’ imaginations.
      Glad we’ve got that right. //
      
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      December 1, 2020 12:04pm
      - SGA
        
        Well the “indicators of massive fraud” have had a nasty habit of evaporating the closer they get to court rooms, so you can’t be surprised that some are very skeptical.
        
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        December 1, 2020 12:48pm
      - C J Southern
        
        If there was any credible evidence of fraud it would have been presented to a court by now.
        
        What HAS been presented so far? No evidence and no accusation.
        
        What does that tell you?
        
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        December 1, 2020 1:54pm
    - Couchpotatoe
      
      Even William will not have a Barr of it:) Boom tish.
      
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      December 2, 2020 7:08pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I heard it was because he tried to sniff the dog’s hair and the dog quite rightly objected.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:02am
- coge
  
  The dog won’t talk.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:41am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    The dog should be wary if Hillary moves to pat it . . .
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:16am
- fisho
  
  Thanks for clarifying, I heard he’d hurt his foot dogging.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:28am
- Paulus
  
  Called Gout – I know ~
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:15am
jaysper

Yup! Today everyone at stuff is feeling guilty for having done nothing to people who have had nothing done to them.
Bunch of woke lunatics.
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December 1, 2020 8:06am
emmess

Watch before commenting on the US election today
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6213094785001/

I don’t know why the hell it is in portrait though
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December 1, 2020 8:12am
- emmess
  
  Better stream here
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rri6flxaXww
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:04am
Yvette

Yesterday’s – New Zealand media giant Stuff apologises for ‘racist’ past reporting. Outlet promises to ‘do better in the future’, admitting that it seldom treated Māori fairly – today makes it into the Guardian, UK.

But, interestingly, after quoting Stuff’s editorial director, Mark Stevens – “Our coverage of Māori issues over the last 160 years ranged from racist to blinkered” – the Guardian seems to recount only two examples of the media’s shortcomings –

It found its outlets had “been racist, contributed to stigma, marginalisation and stereotypes against Māori”.
In the 1800s there were references to an “inferior race” but Stuff’s reporting has marginalised Māori this century too and treated them as “other”.
“Our language often split New Zealand into two – Kiwis and Māori … us and them,” Stevens said.

Here, to perhaps help them out in expressing the unnecessary type of denigration that has been happening, is an independent example –
“After nine years of this National Government, propped up by the Māori party, there’s not a lot to brag about. Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to these disturbing statistics produced under National’s watch. [1]
– Kelvin Davis, before the 2017 Election

Davis went on to say “There’s no mana for Māori who support a waka that’s shackled to the National Party. Labour won six of the seven Māori seats at the last election. Māori deserve more support than what the Nats and their hopeless helpers have delivered”

But Davis, just after the 2017-2020 term as Government with all seven Maori seats under Labour, recently said “when schools accept low achievement rates from its Māori students, without aspiring to better them, it shows there is “systemic racism” in the education system.”
That is mentioned under “Maori educational achievement rates” posted by David Farrar, November 25, 2020, accompanied by two graphs showing Labour has actually worsened the status quo for Maori school leavers! [2]

There is perhaps one thing worse than nasty stereotype speech for one’s own political gain – it is poor performance and non-delivery when you are in the position to improve statistics that you have criticised, using the very speech you yourself now condemn.

Charles Colson in an interview with Brian Edwards long ago said he thought American Africans have been enslaved twice: first, physically; and then when they were “freed” they were continually told what a low level of all social statistics they occupied, enslaving them the second time.
It’s probably a little like getting colonialised twice, Kelvin.

[1] https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1702/S00255/no-mana-for-maori.htm
[2] https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/11/maori_educational_achievement_rates.html
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December 1, 2020 8:13am
- rouppe
  
  One of the biggest contributors to Maori being seen as “other” is Maori – or at least their political aspirants – constantly pushing for separatism.
  
  Separate funding, representation, tertiary entrant quotas and on and on…
  
  Just saw an old episode of Ewan Mcgregor’s Long Way Down when they visited Rwanda. Known only for the genocide. The guide was asked “were you Tutsi or Hutu during that time?”.
  The woman gave him a very hard look and said “back then I was Tutsi, now I am Rwandan”.
  
  We could benefit from similar culture change.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:38am
  - Unity
    
    Too many of them still live in the past or hanker after it. I would have thought they would progress and look to the future and how they can do so much better by their own efforts. Living in the past just drags them down and they will never prosper while they continue to do that. You would think that instead of being labelled victims and wallowing in it, they would want to stick it to the rest of us and show us how well they can do. Come on those with Maori ethnicity in the poor stats, get off your backsides, work hard and aspire to do well.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:30am
    - Flossie
      
      My biggest bugbear with all this separatist talk is that those with the loudest voices seem to be less than half Maori so how do they respond to their “pakeha” family? I too claim some Maori blood but I am also very cognisant of all the rest of my ancestry.
      
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      December 1, 2020 11:52am
      - Unity
        
        I’m actually wondering that seeing all seem to have the blood of the ‘dreadful’ colonists why don’t they suppress the Maori side and elevate their ‘other’ side, then they might start to do well. Just wondering ….?
        
        I get very irritated when they refer to ‘our people’ because we all know they aren’t talking about anyone other than their ‘Maori’ side. Why do they sideline their ‘other’ side? Seeing the rest of us are supposedly doing so well compared to them, they should join us. We’d love us all to be New Zealanders.
        
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        December 1, 2020 1:52pm
      - Jack5
        
        Yvette notes the appearance of Stuff’s kowtow in the UK Guardian.
        
        Checks by VPN show the Stuff Maorification report appeared only in the Australian edition of the Guardian, and in the NZ pseudo-edition you read only when you log in from New Zealand.
        
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        December 1, 2020 5:28pm
- backster
  
  Yvette….Don’t worry in education at least the other kids are being brought down to the Maori level.
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:57am
  - Unity
    
    Which angers me very much. If I had children still at school I would be causing so much fuss over all of this nonsense.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:31am
- kowtow
  
  “Our language often split New Zealand into two – Kiwis and Māori … us and them,” Stevens said.’
  
  Ok, that being the case will the Media party question the current fad of ” Maori solutions to Maori problems” a la the child abuse epidemic or all things separatist these days . Or will they ever question the constant use by Maori Exclusivists of the term “our people” , tangata whenua , tau iwi or indeed their own use of “pakeha” which also divides us a nation on racial grounds.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:27am
  - Gravelroad
    
    What are the proposed “Māori solutions to Māori problems” especially pertaining to child abuse?
    Anyone know?
    There have been plenty of working groups, meetings, hui etc to talk about this.
    But, other than giving out more and more money – what solutions have been offered by Māori to Māori?
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:28am
    - kowtow
      
      An old white guy says that’s the wat it should be , no detail of course , but I wonder if he’s being neo colonialist being a white guy an’all.
      
      ‘While Mrs Moss’ days must be numbered, what might happen next for this beleaguered organisation is not clear. Children’s Commissioner Andrew Becroft has called for the transfer of power and resources from the Government to Maori to keep pepi Maori in the care of Maori groups — a by Maori for Maori system.’
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/time-oranga-tamariki-boss
      
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      December 1, 2020 10:48am
    - Unity
      
      It’s been going since the year dot – billions of dollars have been thrown at “Maori” issues but nothing seems to change. So obviously everything we have been doing has been in vain – it’s not worked. Why don’t they start making the hard decisions and stop paying children to have children. They have learned they don’t need to be educated as they can just have a baby and put out their upturned palm. Young people should learn that there won’t be a benefit if they have children whilst on it or in order to get it. They will soon get the message and finally realise that they perhaps should get an education so they can ‘earn’ some decent money. Hard decisions need to be made – nothing has worked so far, so get tough.
      
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      December 1, 2020 11:34am
I remember when

“Electronic devices” killed Iran scientists.
I knew they weren’t telling us the truth about G5!
34 4
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December 1, 2020 8:14am
- Loddenthinks
  
  There’s more – they actually died of Covid, caused by the 5G cell towers.
  
  18 3
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  December 1, 2020 9:37am
  - Jack5
    
    That bloody 5G: it made holes in the side of the scientists’ cars almost like those of bullets.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:01am
flash2846

More and more and more fraud in the American elections:
Now hundreds of witnesses who were actually working at the polling places have come forward with evidence and other concerns confirming organized election fraud to the benefit of Biden…. HUNDREDS.
Conversely, not one person who was there has come forward claiming everything to be ‘hunky-dory’
Now bring on the looney left wing haters with their lies, their hurt feelings and the inevitable downticks. Knock yourselves out.
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December 1, 2020 8:15am
- President Elect Andrei
  
  The evidence is overwhelming…
  
  …I wonder how long before the penny to drops for our Blog host?
  
  40 15
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  December 1, 2020 8:32am
  - SB2
    
    “The evidence is overwhelming…”
    
    Such as?
    
    9 30
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    December 1, 2020 9:54am
    - C J Southern
      
      Ummm, ummm
      
      5 13
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      December 1, 2020 11:57am
- BeeJay
  
  What is so incredible is that there was ZERO election fraud reported in states that Trump won! But HUNDREDS of witnesses to organised election fraud in the states Trump lost! Oh, I get it! Selective fraud? Right! Thanks for that!
  BTW just to clear up the allegations as to alliances! Far from being a loony, left wing hater with hurt feelings, I’m an active National Party member, having been involved in actively working for the Party during the time that I was domiciled in NZ, after many years in employment around the world! Call me a Trump hater if you like, I just can’t stand seeing morons in positions that really need people with intelligence and commonsense!
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Logically, there should have been evidence of democrats’ fraud in the states won narrowly by Trump: Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Ohio, Texas. But nothing, of course. Those elections were miraculously free f fraud.
    
    12 12
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    December 1, 2020 10:27am
  - Fletch
    
    Florida had the smoothest election ever this year after they cleaned up their act and enacted reforms.
    
    Reforms enacted after 2000 unified ballots—eliminating punch cards and pull level machines in favor of mandated paper ballots—and promoted early and no-excused absentee voting long before the pandemic. Uniform recount laws were also passed and provisional ballots were also added.
    
    Floridians can even track their mail ballots online. Every state needs to do the same thing.
    
    13 3
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    December 1, 2020 10:46am
    - C J Southern
      
      It would indeed be a great thing. Unfortunately – it’s not in most cases because of “privacy concerns”.
      
      9 5
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      December 1, 2020 10:59am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Why would Republicans put energy into finding fraud in states they won? It certainly exists at some level (as in all states with long dead voters and unchallenged mail in ballots), but there is no point to chasing it when there are bigger fish to fry. They have found some pretty big cases in California (8000 votes in LA, perpetrator arrested) which they would never win. Everyone in USA knows that the only states that matter electorally are the 5-10 tightly contested battleground states
    
    9 7
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    December 1, 2020 11:18am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You don’t think that anyone witnessing fraud in those states would report it? It’s a serious crime, isn’t it?
      
      5 5
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      December 1, 2020 12:08pm
    - C J Southern
      
      “Why would Republicans put energy into finding fraud in states they won?”
      
      For the same reason they’d try to manufacture fraud in states that they lost: Because it’s in their best interests.
      
      4 7
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      December 1, 2020 1:57pm
  - flash2846
    
    Hey BeeJay…. So you worked for the National Party. Good on ya.
    Weren’t very good though were ya given the last election results.
    
    3 6
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    December 1, 2020 12:56pm
- Simon
  
  Yep also the experts saying major problems with the election. They are being censored of course
  
  17 12
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  December 1, 2020 8:46am
  - SB2
    
    “They are being censored of course”
    
    Examples!
    
    10 27
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    December 1, 2020 9:55am
    - freethinker
      
      If comments/facts are censored they don’t appear so examples are difficult to provide but reports of the kind mentioned in this blog and affidavits seem to be reasonable evidence that at least the alleged irregularities be investigated/litigated.
      
      11 6
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      December 1, 2020 10:40am
      - C J Southern
        
        The courts don’t “censor facts” – so you’d really have to ask yourself why there’s been so much “allegation” and so many “facts” outside the court (where people can say pretty much whatever they like with relative impunity) and yet ZERO allegations of fraud presented in court and only “strained legal argument” (to quote a judge) in court where there are consequences.
        
        Even Guiliani himself told the judge “we’re not alleging fraud”.
        
        What we have here is nothing more than a whole bunch of people who’s only tool to attempt to align “what they want to happen” with “what is actually happening” is cognitive dissonance.
        
        They’re like a bunch of prisoners all moaning about how they were “wrongfully convicted”; that’s their right … but them saying it doesn’t make it so. Bottom line is it comes down to evidence and compelling legal arguments – and to date there have been ZERO of either – hence the reason the election is proceeding through normal processes – and will continue to do so – despite the inane delusion theories.
        
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        December 1, 2020 11:08am
- IC5000
  
  Then i expect that they have provided affidavits to Trumps legal team?
  
  9 8
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  December 1, 2020 8:49am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Or maybe a question – got links for this?
  
  6 1
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  December 1, 2020 8:52am
  - C J Southern
    
    Or better still links to credible sources – like court decisions.
    
    4 3
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    December 1, 2020 1:59pm
- Littletramp
  
  The question is not if there was election fraud, the question is what will America do next?
  They are about to expose their corrupt system in full frontal view on the worldwide stage.
  The globalists will be desperate to keep any issues away from the Supreme Court. Just imagine having their fate decided by Samuel Alito, Neill Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Comey Barrett and especially Clarence Thomas!
  Popcorn please.
  
  12 8
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  December 1, 2020 9:44am
- C J Southern
  
  And in real news:
  
  1. STILL no evidence or accusations being presented in court.
  
  2. Arizona (D), Connecticut (D) have both certified their results.
  
  The only ones with hurt feelings appear to be you lot who don’t like the facts.
  
  11 25
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  December 1, 2020 10:23am
  - Couchpotatoe
    
    Love seeing the Trump fanbois heads exploding with the truth.
    
    0 0
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    December 2, 2020 7:12pm
BAM

Is the MSM ghosting National or is National ignoring the media?
52 5
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December 1, 2020 8:18am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The ghosting continues.
  
  44 6
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  December 1, 2020 8:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The Media is currently undergoing some self-reflection…
  
  I think we will have to wait for the Great Purge to be over before the Nats come under the spotlight.
  
  45 3
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  December 1, 2020 8:26am
  - Unity
    
    They are too busy apologising to Maori for all the negativity they have been presenting since forever!! When their readership is zilch they might wake up and start being proper journalists and report all the news, not just selected rejigged bits and pieces.
    
    18 3
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    December 1, 2020 11:36am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Stuff’s too busy navel-gazing at the moment to publish anything from the Opposition.
  
  57 3
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  December 1, 2020 8:33am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    National is irrelevant Tony Bro. They need not bother until at least 2026 election.
    
    4 19
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    December 1, 2020 9:37am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Give them time. they have to catch up on all the rumours swirling about the next leadership change. Before Xmas, or after Xmas?
    
    4 23
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    December 1, 2020 9:54am
jacob

Wellington spatial plan goes full spaz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/123551426/council-staff-debate-whether-wellingtons-20kmh-cable-car-qualifies-as-rapid-transit
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December 1, 2020 8:19am
- tf78
  
  jacob, it depends if the brakes fail – then definitely.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:57am
dcrane

Posted this substack voting pattern article on Twitter today, and my post got tagged with Twitter’s “this claim about election fraud is disputed” warning message. (Little me…I’m kinda proud actually.)

https://votepatternanalysis.substack.com/p/voting-anomalies-2020

But the article alleges no fraud – the authors were careful to say they could not conclude this. Their study seems careful and worth reading, whether or not there turns out to be an innocent explanation for the extreme data points they highlighted.

My statement also claimed no fraud (I said it was worth reading).

Big tech’s heavy hand has been interfering in this election on behalf of Joe Biden. Their actions, like censoring the Biden influence peddling news, make Russias claimed 2016 role look like child’s play.

(Here is my post: https://twitter.com/kikihia1/status/1333488001599512576)
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December 1, 2020 8:21am
- C J Southern
  
  If the evidence is solid then I’m sure a judge will treat it accordingly.
  
  And yet NONE of this “evidence” (or accusation) makes it to a courtroom …
  
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  December 1, 2020 2:02pm
  - dcrane
    
    There are supposedly new cases going in even now. We’ll see. I do wish they had more time to set them up and better people doing it.
    
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    December 1, 2020 5:15pm
Maggie Pie

It just shows how utterly despicable the CCP really is.
To post a FAKE image on Twitter, of an Australian Soldier slitting the throat of an Afghani baby girl while she clutches a little lamb, with the message “Don’t be afraid – we come to bring you peace”, is just sooo repugnant and deeply offensive.
Our own FM must summon the Chinese Ambassador to her office today, and deliver a severe dressing down, letting China know exactly what New Zealand thinks of this most appalling development.

https://twitter.com/Dolgogi/status/1333279535119286273
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December 1, 2020 8:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  or alternatively, PM Morrison could get on his knees and slap himself around the face.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/12/china-strikes-back-at-scott-morrison-s-demand-for-apology-state-media-calls-for-pm-to-slap-himself-on-live-tv.html
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:28am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Can you even believe it Maggs? A most shocking and disturbing ‘State sanctioned’ move by the CCP.
    What do they honestly believe they are going to achieve with this deeply offensive action?
    My partner reckons it’s akin to them becoming upset with something New Zealand does, and then tweeting an image of a Mokomakai smoking a cigarette or something as equally repugnant.
    
    27 6
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    December 1, 2020 8:42am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I am relying on Jacinda and Nanaia to sort it out between our beloved trade partners.
      
      36 3
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      December 1, 2020 8:58am
      - calendar girl
        
        Relying on those two to sort out anything at international level is likely to be a stretch too far.
        
        20 2
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        December 1, 2020 10:07am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I can see a flaw in your cunning plan . . .
        
        16 1
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        December 1, 2020 10:22am
    - Jack5
      
      Can anyone get the Aussies photos of the State holiday camps Beijing is running for the Uighurs?
      
      26 0
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      December 1, 2020 10:05am
      - freethinker
        
        Just cut & paste image of Aushwitz and replace flag with the CCP version.
        
        13 1
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        December 1, 2020 10:48am
- Simon
  
  National’s biggest sponsors really are scum. National should give all the money back to the CCP
  
  Would be good to hear from noted China expert John Key on CCP criminally. For a laugh of course.
  
  6 34
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  December 1, 2020 8:49am
  - C J Southern
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/chinas-communists-fund-jacinda-arderns-labour-party-what-the-united-states-congress-was-told/YLXIFYHTQHUZSJAAUPRGSK6QSQ/
    
    9 1
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    December 1, 2020 12:01pm
- Nickc2
  
  This could get messy. A guy in my local pub told me last night it was quite likely China will call in its loans to Aust and when they can’t be repaid, stuff Aust exports to China will become free as interest payments on China’s loans.
  It must be remembered that Aust sold many of their farming interests to China (as we have) and products from these could go directly from Chinese owned paddocks to Chinese plates without Aust being able to even click the ticket as they say. This will be the same for Aust’s mineral resources. China will own the lot.
  Whilst Aust has a reasonably strong military, it is in no way a viable counter to Chinese aggression should that scenario develop.
  What will we do? Probably stick our fingers in our ears, roll over and hope China pats us on the head like a farmer rewards his well-behaved dogs.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:32am
  - Jack5
    
    What was an international financier who knows when international loans will be recalled doing slumming in an NZ pub last night?
    
    16 0
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    December 1, 2020 10:13am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      LOL
      
      9 6
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      December 1, 2020 10:28am
    - Nickc2
      
      Making the most of it before the next lockdown.
      
      5 1
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      December 1, 2020 12:36pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    China’s power is often overstated. Countries that export commodities may feel vulnerable, but most commodities sought by China are freely traded internationally. China might cut off imports of Australian wine, for example, but that means they will import more wine from other countries, meaning Australian exporters will have other opportunities. Disruptive, for sure, but not crippling.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:15am
    - Jack5
      
      Dozens of ships carrying about $NZ750,000 worth of coal are stranded off the China, the Sydney Morning Herald reports.
      
      Communist China is a tough trading partner. Fortunately there are other rising industrial countries in China, such as Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia.
      
      https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/australian-coal-exports-face-perfect-storm-as-china-restrictions-hit-20201130-p56j9b.html
      
      9 0
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      December 1, 2020 11:02am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Exactly – the market for broad commodities is far larger than China alone. China has not succeeded in bullying some other countries.
        
        8 2
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        December 1, 2020 12:10pm
  - alloytoo
    
    In the event of China doing that Australia should just declare themselves a communist state and thank China for their donations to the cause.
    
    7 1
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    December 1, 2020 1:10pm
    - Nickc2
      
      That reminds me alloytoo, when is our supreme leader going to officially declare NZ a satellite Communist Chinese state? I’m pretty sure she promised it would be addressed during the current term of Parliament.
      
      6 1
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      December 1, 2020 1:41pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Thanks for the joke Pie. Our Foreign Minister? Do we have one?
  
  19 4
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  December 1, 2020 9:38am
artemisia

So the government had no idea how to resolve Ms Ardern’s own goal at Ihumatao. Despite armies of highly paid officials they had to seek expensive outside help for liaison and help to identify a way forward. Sounds like very loose terms of reference and doubt we will ever learn the results.

Paywalled –

The Government has shelled out more than $150,000 to consultants to provide advice regarding the Ihumātao land dispute, with some being paid up to $325 an hour.

“And a spokeswoman for DPMC said the contracted services “provided for liaison between the parties involved and advice to help identify a way forward at Ihumātao”

Contracted parties – Hingston Mill Ltd and Rimu Road Consulting Ltd (run by former MBIE chief executive David Smol).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-government-paid-private-consultants-up-to-325-an-hour-to-provide-ihumatao-advice/KUBX26FCAHIDECVR37TFDVFBRE/
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December 1, 2020 8:26am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s simple really–follow the law.
  Fletchers are the registered title holders. The PM and others are implicated in a criminal activity of denying a registered land owner their property rights. The occupation is also criminal so encouraging it is criminal. The Police have ignored their sworn duties in favour of political intervention. They are not lackeys of the State but have a broader duty to keep the peace. That includes putting the PM in her place if need be.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:00am
  - artemisia
    
    Agree KevOB but does sound like Fletchers agreed at the outset, probably thinking it would be resolved quickly. That means not criminal and police may be under instruction from Fletchers.
    
    Fletchers said last week they expect it to be resolved soon. What they did not say, but probably thought, is that’s the last time we try to help in any similar circs.
    
    8 2
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    December 1, 2020 12:10pm
  - giltee
    
    But in the real world it doesn’t work that way …..Cindy has to keep her Maori votes because without the Maori seats she’d never have been in the drivers seat
    
    8 1
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    December 1, 2020 12:39pm
I remember when

The ban on concerts at Eden Park is the ultimate triumph of the New Zealand nimby.
(The leader of whom likes to drop into New Zealand sometimes.)
Spinoff article:
Then for almost three months there’s nothing.
Makes you wonder.
Is it time to convert Eden Park into high density, low cost, last chance, housing?
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December 1, 2020 8:27am
- mikenmildagain
  
  That reminds me: when is Ray Avery putting on that ‘charity’ concert he was planning?
  
  7 8
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  December 1, 2020 9:55am
  - sooty
    
    Low cost, last chance housing. You don’t have a chance mate! The snob on the hill, will not allow it to happen! She would be spitting tacks!
    
    8 3
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    December 1, 2020 11:12am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yeah sure, Eden Park was the only possible site for his ~~scam~~ concert.
      
      3 6
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      December 1, 2020 12:11pm
Tony Stuart

A must-read piece today; Queenstown restaurant owner Darren Lovell pulls no punches about what’s going on in the town:

THERE’S a bloody big elephant stampeding through the streets of Queenstown and no one, it seems, can see it.

And if someone doesn’t do something soon, that bloody big elephant is going to smash our streets to smithereens.

Our elephant, the one thing no one seems to be talking about, is that we are a tourist town with no tourists.

How does that work, folks?

Guess what? It doesn’t.

We can pretend all we like how great the school holidays were, how fantastic marathon weekend was, and yes, I’m told, hang on in there, a travel bubble to Australia will be with us soon.

‘‘Things are on the improve,’’ writes my landlord, responding to my email explaining why I can’t pay the full amount of rent owing for the sixth month straight.

‘‘There’s a vaccine coming.’’

I scream. I cry.

Doesn’t anyone get it?

We need the vaccine now.

We need our borders open now.

We need tourists now.

Without them I do not have a profitable business.

Hands up if the same thing applies to you?

http://www.scene.co.nz/opinion/can-we-stop-pretending-everything-is-still-ok/

It remains to be seen whether new Tourism Minister Stuart Nash will be any better than the hapless Kelvin Davis, not that being better than Davis should be difficult, or anything to be proud of, for that matter. But it’s clear that Queenstown is on life support, and Nash needs to get some action from the PM on reopening the border, to a trans-Tasman bubble, at least.
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December 1, 2020 8:32am
- alex Masterley
  
  The whole Queenstown Lakes area is having issues at the moment.
  Nash and St Jacinda of the Pestilence need to get the TT bubble going sooner rather than later.
  
  41 5
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  December 1, 2020 8:45am
  - rouppe
    
    Yet I looked for a few nights in Lake tekapo in the medium price range and there’s nothing to be found.
    
    13 1
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    December 1, 2020 9:23am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      When were you booking for though Rouppe. I suggest accommodation providers would bite your hand off if you made an enquiry about a midweek stay, before the holidays get underway. Sure, they’ll get business during the school holidays, but that’s not enough to keep them afloat for a full year.
      
      My in-laws recently had a stay in Queenstown midweek, and noticed that the staffing of the hotel they stayed in was significantly less than their previous, pre-Covid stay. Not only were there fewer staff, but the level of service was somewhat less as well. Employers have had to let staff go, and the ones kept on have to work twice as hard during peak times.
      
      15 2
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      December 1, 2020 10:17am
      - mark15
        
        Crikey
        I didn’t think new zealand’s level of service could decrease from where it is.
        
        11 2
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        December 1, 2020 11:18am
      - rouppe
        
        Fair enough and yes it was during the late December early Jan period, cause that’s when I (am required to) have leave.
        
        On a side note I have been looking at motorcycle touring options. There’s a 5 day one out of ChCh that costs about $750 a day if you bring your own bike.
        
        There’s a three week one in Peru that’s about $550 a day including bike hire, fuel, meals, a support vehicle and accommodation.
        
        Yes overall worth airfares the Peru trip is more expensive but…
        
        7 1
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        December 1, 2020 11:57am
      - IC5000
        
        You get to sample the finest uncut Peruvian marching powder?
        
        2 0
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        December 1, 2020 2:50pm
    - Dougal10
      
      Tekapo is nowhere near queenstown.
      
      3 1
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      December 1, 2020 11:22am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Yeah right. She is saving lives and the sheeple know it.
    
    2 11
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    December 1, 2020 9:46am
- BAM
  
  Without them I do not have a profitable business.
  
  It’s not all about you bud, try and remember that next time.
  
  3 32
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  December 1, 2020 9:02am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’ve obviously never owned a business BAM. Businesses need customers to survive. Lovell employed 14 staff a short time ago, now he employs four. Tell me how that is good for anyone, especially the ten staff who have lost their jobs, and their families.
    
    41 4
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    December 1, 2020 10:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      No one expects controlling a pandemic to be good for many businesses, do they?
      
      5 35
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      December 1, 2020 10:16am
    - mark15
      
      I reckon about 60% would be foreign anyway.
      
      6 2
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      December 1, 2020 11:20am
    - BAM
      
      Yes, I have, try and see the big picture, Tony.
      
      3 10
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      December 1, 2020 11:49am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It’s hard to see a big picture when one is small-minded.
        
        8 14
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        December 1, 2020 12:12pm
- backster
  
  Nah, Power and control over the proletariat and creating dependency on the State is the key.
  
  21 4
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  December 1, 2020 9:24am
- kowtow
  
  The South ( indeed the whole country) is full of virtual ghost towns that died when the economy changed in one way or another .
  
  Gold rushes, timber booms, the end of sail and steam etc
  
  13 6
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  December 1, 2020 9:33am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  I am happy for them to suffer and close down. They voted for Jacinda and Labour and she will fix it. So don’t cry for me Argentina.
  
  25 3
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  December 1, 2020 9:45am
  - plc
    
    Especially Taranaki!
    
    18 3
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    December 1, 2020 10:16am
- tf78
  
  All the well paid MP’s and their families should spend their two month Christmas break in Queenstown.
  
  4 6
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  December 1, 2020 10:11am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Do you hate them all that much?
    
    8 4
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    December 1, 2020 10:29am
- hullkiwi
  
  Tony, I have no sympathy for Queenstown or any other tourist town that has set themselves on a model that relies on charging sky high prices to foreign tourists. Then they turn around and cry when the foreign tourist tap is turned off. In a phrase though, their business, their choices.
  
  As we are fond of saying, that is the free market model. The reality is there is much wrong with NZ’s economic model. None more so than the tourism and hospitality industries, there is no magic money tree.
  
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  December 1, 2020 12:03pm
Lance

Plonker of the week goes to Michael Wood.
Garner tore him a new one on the AM show when is response to any question whatsoever was it was sub judice.
Such was the answer to questions like “so who could have stopped the tours going ahead”, “how come WorkSafe visited the island two weeks before the eruption”, “who were the volcanologists supposed to contact” etc.
The govt oversaw a shit show of gross incompetence so are now just charging everyone and their dog no matter how idiotic the premise.

So I’m guessing anybody with any influence whatsoever over any risk will go to the extreme to protect themselves form the Nazi’s running riot.
Volcanologists will just declare immanent eruptions on ALL volcanoes all the time, all private land owners will bar any and all public access, all beaches and all lakes in NZ to the fenced off…. and worst of all, rescue nobody incase the Gestapo throw you in jail for reckless endangerment.
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December 1, 2020 8:37am
Paulus

White Island – prosecutions now before the Court.
We are given to understand that a number of people and organisations are to be prosecuted for the Volcanic eruption.
Whilst a number of the names are currently not advised I hope that one includes God as the eruption can quite rightly be called an “Act of God”.
He or She will require a good QC.
Once all becomes settled I would expect the Auckland owners would be bankrupted at which time DOC can do what they have always wanted to take control and rename it Whakaari Island.
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December 1, 2020 8:37am
- greybeard
  
  Did anyone else see Garner’s interview with Michael Wood this morning?
  Garner asked Wood what he knew about the WorkSafe visit to White Island 2 weeks BEFORE the eruption.
  From the look on Wood’s face I think it was the first time he had heard of it !
  He obfuscated and blathered on without giving a straight answer.
  Garner finished by saying that WorkSafe sent only one person to the island before the eruption but 28 after the event !
  Definitely Garner 1, Wood 0
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:02am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    So what is your point? Wood is still the minister and he will still win with a huge majority. Bro my point is this. If you are Labour, you don’t have to even lift your finger and the f**king sheeple of this country will elect you with high majorities. See Twyford’s majority this election.
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:48am
  - JackRabbit
    
    WorkSafe are the proverbial ambulance chasers. So if Worksafe visited the Island 2 weeks earlier and gave it a green tick, how can they not have a conflict of interest?
    
    If WorkSafe were resident in Pompeii, no doubt prosecutions would have eventuated.
    
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    December 1, 2020 9:52am
    - C J Southern
      
      That’s a bit like asserting that “if police initially eliminate someone from their enquiries but subsequent enquiries & evidence reveals their guilt then it would of been a conflict of interest to charge them”.
      
      WorkSafe only have so many resources; if they did indeed give White Island a “green tick” (which I’m doubtful of because it would be the operators who got the tick – not the island) then it’s most likely because they weren’t in a position to know all relevent details at the time.
      
      As far as I’m concerned if 22 people died and 25 more had life-changing injuries because some businesses put $$$ ahead of practical steps that could have been taken to keep everyone safe then I for one have no problem with the matter being decided in court.
      
      Keep in mind that WorkSafe aren’t judge, jury, and executioner – and defence costs will probably be paid out of public liability insurance anyway.
      
      22 people died; if there were factors other than “just bad luck” that could have been taken into account then someone needs to be held accountable.
      
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      December 1, 2020 10:37am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Everyone needs health and safety training. However I’ve had dealings with WorkSafe at a technology level and they can’t manage their own risks. I could easily have been dealing with Basil Fawlty.
        
        The issues impacted certain WorkSafe activities that in a normal business would be seen an as extremely elevated or critical risk. In a normal business you would expect this type of risk to be dealt with immediately and certainly by end of day, but these risks casually lingered on for weeks.
        
        That experience left me cold, and despite best intentions, I sincerely doubt that WorkSafe are able to accurately assess risk in advance to any discernible level of accuracy.
        
        If the White Island excursion was an inspection, then they failed in not carryng out due diligence. If it was a “lets go look at White Island for some time out of the office” then not only were they negligent but also did not pick up on the elevated level of risk they are now prosecuting over.
        
        In any safely inspection I’ve seen or been part of, both the operators and the conditions are referenced, because operators have to know the conditions. If operators are moving into critical conditions or location when they shouldn’t be, that’s a fail.
        
        The inspectors have to be aware of the conditions to be able to determine if the operator is aware of the conditions. Otherwise it’s three blind mice directing the watchmaker.
        
        Getting green ticks of approval, hours, days or weeks before a disaster are commonplace in IT, the airline industry, and everything in between. And those giving the green ticks were unaware of the impending calamities. You can’t manage what you don’t understand.
        
        Putts Law:
        
        Putt’s Law: “Technology is dominated by two types of people, those who understand what they do not manage and those who manage what they do not understand.”
        
        Putt’s Corollary: “Every technical hierarchy, in time, develops a competence inversion, with incompetence being ‘flushed out of the lower levels’ of a technocratic hierarchy, ensuring that technically competent people remain directly in charge of the actual technology while those without technical competence move into management.”
        
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        December 1, 2020 11:52am
      - C J Southern
        
        Your argument is flawed on numerous levels;
        
        1. This is about the compliance of White Island operators – not WorkSafe’s own compliance with NZ H&S legislation.
        
        2. Your opinion that WorkSafe are non-compliant with NZ legislation carries little to no weight; as should all biased opinion that’s not supported by credible evidence.
        
        3. Unless WorkSafe are 1000 times bigger and have a permanent presence in every work environment then they’re only ever going to be able to sample a tiny fraction of what goes on in the real world … unless of course the shit hits the fan. Of course it would be nice if they could be more proactive than retroactive but KBers would be the first to moan if their resources were massively ramped up. You charge a motorist after a crash – you don’t charge the police for not having enough patrols to catch him speeding.
        
        4. Again, WorkSafe can allege whatever they like – they only charge people – they don’t convict them. If the charges are without merit then I’m pretty sure several tiers of courts in NZ will throw them out – but equally, “the proof of the pudding is in the eating” – and if the parties are found guilty then you need to accept that WorkSafe (despite your alleged failings) called it right. Time will tell.
        
        Is it your position (as someone who doesn’t have access to the facts & details any more than I do) that they shouldn’t investigate and seek to hold people to account for what they believe (and are asking a court to confirm) were illegal actions that got 22 people killed and 25 others seriously injured?
        
        Look – I get it – getting charged and facing months of litigation sucks – but so does getting killed and injured; so at this point we need just a little bit more to go on than “you think they’re incompetent”.
        
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        December 1, 2020 12:24pm
- rockape
  
  Where is Billy Connolly when you need him?
  ( The man who sued God )
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:08am
- MCos
  
  Most people in NZ know that White Island is a dangerous place given to relatively frequent eruptions that are signaled ahead of time by heightened thermal activity.
  There’s a pretty good chance foreign visitors weren’t told any of this or that locals weren’t aware that there was increased activity.
  Hence the charges.
  
  NZ has had too many cases of careless practices leading to preventable deaths and, in some cases, nobody being held to account.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:46am
  - plc
    
    The Volcanic Alert Level was raised the Wednesday prior and Volcanic Alert Bulletin sent out (including to tour operators).
    
    Channel 9 “Sixty Minutes” have footage from the day with tour operators discussing heightened Alert Levels
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:22am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Communication alerts are important.
      However, who sent alerts and how were the alerts sent?
      
      If it was by email that’s not good enough. If the alert was don’t fly, it should have been by phone, so that two way communication was actually had.
      
      Many organisations have failures with email not arriving, lost in Spam filters, or buried under an avalanche of other email, WorkSafe and other Govt departments included.
      
      Unless you have two way verbal communication, you don’t know it has been received, let alone read and digested. Elevated risks and critical situations call for elevated and/or critical communications.
      
      I’ve lost track of the number of situations where screw-ups and disasters could have been avoided if people didn’t rely on email, or avoid direct communication – “I sent an email so it’s no longer my responsibility”.
      
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      December 1, 2020 12:35pm
      - plc
        
        From GNS website:
        
        “Volcanic Alert Bulletins
        Volcano Alert Bulletins (VABs) are New Zealand’s official source of volcano status information including the current Volcanic Alert Level (VAL). They are issued on an as needed basis summarising the volcano status and recent events. They can indicate if activity is increasing, decreasing, or in a steady state. They may contain forecasts, highlight developing, or expected problems.
        If you’d like to be notified as soon as we issue a new bulletin, our social media channels and the GeoNet app will keep you up-to-date.”
        
        I’m going to guess if tour operations to White Island are your main source of business then you will be monitoring things reasonably closely
        
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        December 1, 2020 1:05pm
      - C J Southern
        
        When I go flying it’s my responsibility to check the status of any danger areas that I want to fly through from official sources – it’s not their job to inform me.
        
        4 4
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        December 1, 2020 2:06pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @plc
        @C J Southern
        
        I agree, without question, it is the responsibility of the operators to check. I would go one step further however. If I was a tourist, and knowing about Volcanoes, I would be checking the alerts myself, before deciding to go on said tour.
        
        In fact there are times I have declined to do something because things did not look right or something was not mechanically or electrically sound.
        
        And if I was an operator or a tourist, I wouldn’t be relying on WorkSafe, green tick or not.
        
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        December 1, 2020 3:01pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @JackRabbit
        So in other words “you’d use common sense”
        
        Can’t argue with that; so would I – but in most cases people are going to defer a lot of judgement to people whom they perceive to be credible — because that’s their area of expertise.
        
        We now live in a world where many “assume that any given situation or environment is safe” because “it’s illegal for it not to be”.
        
        Personally, I believe that people need to take more responsibility for their own welfare (and I’ve said as much here — and got down-voted for it if memory serves me correctly) – but in the same breath, the “experts” running the operations also need to step-up and exercise the trust placed in them responsibly; these charges serve as allegations that they’ve not done so.
        
        Responsibility for safety doesn’t have to rest with only one party; in this case it can rest with both parties (service provider and service receiver).
        
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        December 1, 2020 7:39pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        Agreed, personal responsibility is paramount. The problem is lack of standards, and a lack of a clear communication chain.
        
        Back to WorkSafe: If they want to be the kingpin and final word on safety, then they have to own that role, warts and all. They can’t have people swanning around making visits and declaring or making the impression that things are good (or bad), without being accountable.
        
        Hence my statement about conflict if interest. If they are to be taken seriously, they can’t do a half-pie and leave things hanging in the wind. They are either the last word on accountability of safety or they aren’t. If they are, they need to man up, if they aren’t then any advice is exactly that, advice, which the user can choose to follow or not.
        
        I can bet your bottom dollar there was no system that enforced a no fly command to the island. In which case it was still up to the operators and for that matter tourists to make a judgement call. The operators got it wrong and will pay the price.
        
        If it was important that no-one flew to the island, where was the system, put in place that prevented it?
        
        WorkSafe were made responsible back in 2011 with new regulations to ensure that tourism operators were audited and regulated and take action accordingly. WorkSafe failed.
        They failed badly. They have a part to play in this tragic affair.
        
        If WorkSafe are in the game, they need to take their responsibilities seriously.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118436134/worksafe-sent-expert-to-white-islandwhakaari-two-months-before-eruption
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118098320/whakaari-white-island-three-helicopter-companies-all-unregistered-for-adventure-activities
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/10699460/PM-send-warning-to-tourism-operators
        
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        December 1, 2020 10:08pm
  - C J Southern
    
    BINGO.
    
    It’s important to note too that WorkSafe aren’t the ones who convict anyone; they’re only charges. If the courts decide that they have no merit then they’ll be thrown out. It the court decide that they DO have merit then IMO that puts the accused on the back foot.
    
    22 people dying is something that needed to be investigated; it sounds to me like they’ve done that and that the accused have been “come up short” in WorkSafe’s opinion.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:41am
freethinker

Darren is one of the few who can see what 2021 is likely to bring and its pretty ugly, MSM message that everything is fine based on housing prices will be shown to be as accurate as twatfords kiwi build promises.
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December 1, 2020 8:42am
SB2

The so-called Kraken is put to the sword as Trump and his supporters pursue pointless and fruitless electoral lawsuits and protests,

“Fired director of U.S. cyber agency Chris Krebs explains why President Trump’s claims of election interference are false”

Chris Krebs, a lifelong Republican, was put in charge of the agency handling election security by President Trump two years ago. When Krebs said the election was the country’s most secure ever, Mr. Trump fired him. Now, Krebs speaks to Scott Pelley. …”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/election-results-security-chris-krebs-60-minutes-2020-11-29/
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December 1, 2020 8:48am
- JackRabbit
  
  Calling the US 2020 election “the most secure ever”, would be like describing Jacinda as a libertarian.
  
  Irrespective of the outcome, the changes in lowered chain of custody requirements in many states could be compared to being told you no longer have to keep locking your car, but advertising its OK to leave your car unlocked with the keys in the ignition.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:48am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, it is utter rubbish to say this election was the most secure ever. Millions of ballots being mailed out based on voter lists which include dead people and those no longer living in the state. States also had ballots returned before the date they were requested. Hundreds of other abnormalities. I don’t think anyone can say with a straight face that this was the most secure election ever. It’s utter nonsense.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:00am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Yep, and don’t forget some voting precincts received more ballots back than were posted out.
      
      9 7
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      December 1, 2020 12:01pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Go tell it to a judge.
        
        5 5
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        December 1, 2020 2:07pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  What you going to do if Trump wins?
  
  10 11
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  December 1, 2020 10:03am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What are you going to do now he has lost.
    TRUMP 2024?
    Word is he will announce his new campaign on Inauguration Day.
    
    8 15
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    December 1, 2020 10:18am
    - cha
      
      He’s off…
      https://donaldjtrump2024.com/
      
      https://djtrumplibrary.com/
      
      1 1
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      December 1, 2020 2:20pm
  - SB2
    
    He Wont!
    
    4 11
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    December 1, 2020 10:24am
  - C J Southern
    
    Trump lost about 3 weeks ago; all that’s happened since then is that that fact has been confirmed over and over and over again at EVERY turn.
    
    8 14
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    December 1, 2020 10:43am
    - freethinker
      
      I admire your conviction CJ – bet the farm on Biden as next President then?
      
      10 5
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      December 1, 2020 11:00am
      - C J Southern
        
        Point me to a site where I can legally place a bet on it not being Trump who’s inaugerated on 20 Jan 2021 – that it’ll give me odds at ANYTHING over even money – and I’ll happily bet a few thousand.
        
        Better question – how much would you be prepared to bet that it’ll be Trump who’s inaugerated?
        
        10 7
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        December 1, 2020 11:14am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Can I get some of that betting action too?
        
        3 1
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        December 1, 2020 12:14pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Still waiting …
        
        3 3
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        December 1, 2020 2:09pm
      - IC5000
        
        What odds are you offering on that action Freethinker?
        
        2 0
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        December 1, 2020 2:56pm
      - C J Southern
        
        “Freethinker” appears to have left the chat …
        
        1 1
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        December 1, 2020 7:40pm
- tf78
  
  60 Minutes lost all credibility for me a couple of years back.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:15am
- Couchpotatoe
  
  Even his most faithful lieutenant Willam Barr agrees.
  
  Delusional Bigly or just a cynical ploy to keep the grievance money coming to pay the campaign debts?
  
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  December 2, 2020 8:11pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Today Stuff is analysing its preoccupation with abused Māori children… (a harrowing read) and ends with some self-indulgent rhetoric

This raises several uncomfortable questions for us as journalists: Why have we deemed some children more deserving of coverage than others?

I’ll be surprised if they go on to consider why they have given yards of print space to the gory details of murders of pretty young white females and trials of their accused, but bugger-all mention of the dozens
of other women and men bashed, stabbed, and shot each year.
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December 1, 2020 8:54am
- kowtow
  
  ‘details of murders of pretty young white females’
  
  So very true .
  
  Not to mention the amount of time and effort on the deaths of certain black men , only at the hands of American cops ( or currently Froggies) . Meanwhile wholesale slaughter in Africa and Chicago goes virtually unremarked.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:37am
- BassilFawlty
  
  It’s so sad how right you are.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:49am
lazza

Quote: President Elect Andrei
The evidence is overwhelming…”

Errr … make that … Underwhelming!
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December 1, 2020 8:55am
cmm

Have we really become that pathetic that living for a day in Chch on $50 a day is a challenge?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/nz/canterbury/123146337/50-challenge-how-to-spend-a-day-in-christchurch-on-an-almost-50-budget

Take a bit of a walk in the hills or around town and pick yourself up a pie for lunch and you’ll get change from $5.
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December 1, 2020 8:58am
- surfing
  
  The stuff author has far more imagination than you, and I’ll choose their day over your dodgy pie and a cold walk.
  
  2 29
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  December 1, 2020 9:30am
  - Than
    
    Umm… the Stuff itinerary essentially *is* a walk around town.
    
    The only difference between between their itinerary and cmm’s suggestion is the Stuff version throws in some blatant advertising for food vendors and tries to pass it off as travel advice.
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:20am
    - surfing
      
      still better than a dodgy pie and a cold walk.
      
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      December 1, 2020 3:35pm
      - Than
        
        No, it’s exactly the same. Except not wasting $50 on so-so food deceptively praised through Native Advertising.
        
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        December 1, 2020 9:17pm
- MCos
  
  You don’t visit a city to eat a bloody pie.
  
  “Why did you go to Christchurch?”
  
  “To eat a pie and walk around in the rain”
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:30am
- Than
  
  Yep. Even in the Stuff itinerary, 6 of the items on their list are free. You could throw a wander around the Botanical Gardens in as well (also free). And apart from boating on the Avon, the free locations are the only distinctively Christchurch parts of the day – the rest is just random food vendors I’d never heard of.
  
  The cynic in me does have to wonder whether the named vendors provided Stuff with any consideration for the “honour” of being included in this list. Native advertising at its sneakiest.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:41am
- muppeth8r
  
  keep the 50bux and stay away from shithole cities 🙂
  
  9 6
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  December 1, 2020 10:15am
  - freethinker
    
    Well that rules out Wellington & Auckland.
    
    5 3
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    December 1, 2020 11:07am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Ah, so many other destinations:
      https://www.facebook.com/shittownsofnz
      
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      December 1, 2020 12:15pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

Hearing rumours that Biden is being advised to concede due to the mounting evidence of fraud….Arizona hearing live:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rri6flxaXww
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December 1, 2020 9:00am
- Inandout
  
  KiP, that suitcase of Chinese money should have been placed beside him, not on his bloody foot.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:04am
- C J Southern
  
  You’ll hear lots of rumours. Unfortunately for you, none of them are true.
  
  If you check more reliable sources you’ll discover that Arizona just certified their results – on time and as expected.
  
  Reality check:
  
  – Biden won’t be conceding
  
  – No evidence of fraud has been presented to any court or even any allegations of fraud made.
  
  This was all over for Trump 3 weeks ago; I can understand that they’re sore about losing but lost they have. Since then all they could do was bluff; those who wanted to believe they had the better hand did so because they’re incapable of being objective – but unfortunately for them their bluff has been called and they had nothing.
  
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  December 1, 2020 12:33pm
  - Fletch
    
    The scumbags are just totally ignoring the many reported instances of fraud just to be stubborn. Totally inexcusable.
    
    1 3
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    December 1, 2020 1:54pm
    - C J Southern
      
      So now you’re alleging that all the courts are in on the fraud to?
      
      The hole you continue to dig just get’s deeper and deeper.
      
      3 1
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      December 1, 2020 7:42pm
lazza

Reference our Dear Red Leader .

Nothing personal you understand … but …

Surely we can expect from a Prime Minister! an entry level, working knowledge of basic finance and economics … right?

Without this understanding, how in hell’s name can she be put in charge of of our economic wellbeing?

My recollection of an early misstep by Madam endures … she had no! idea of what GDP was! … stays with me.

That level of fiscal naiveté says it all.

Kiwi electors were conned … they have put “nice, comforting, kind and soothing” … ahead of “street smart, shrewd, and perceptive” financial management ehh?

A No Brainer: Post covid-19, which skills do we need most?

We shall soon reap the whirlwind folks.
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December 1, 2020 9:11am
Maggie Pie

This from the same person who STOLE the election from the American people! Unf–kingbelieveable!!

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1333198053499490304
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December 1, 2020 9:16am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, he appears to have won Arizona twice; amazing man, the most popular in US history.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:38am
- SB2
  
  Maggie Pie, this tweet gets the drift of things,
  
  Marc E. Elias
  @marceelias
  ·
  Nov 30
  Police cars revolving lightPolice cars revolving lightBREAKING: Wisconsin’s presidential recount is completed. Joe Biden gained 87 votes and again won the state.
  
  Trump becomes the first presidential candidate in history to lose recounts in two different states.
  
  Trump and his allies remain 1-39 in post-election litigation.
  
  8 18
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  December 1, 2020 9:45am
  - freethinker
    
    Recounting fraudulent votes doesn’t change that they were fraudulent like all 900 votes from Military for Biden!
    
    14 9
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    December 1, 2020 11:11am
    - C J Southern
      
      Just as alleging that votes were fraudulent without any evidence doesn’t make them fraudulent.
      
      If there was any reliable evidence of fraud then it would have been presented in court by now – so you really need to ask yourself why that’s the case.
      
      8 7
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      December 1, 2020 12:36pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  He’s not wrong though, is he? At some stage, the US needs to back away from the extreme partisanship of the last thirty years.
  
  10 12
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  December 1, 2020 9:58am
  - Surely Knott
    
    No. He’s not wrong. But where was he when it was his team that lost on the democrat supporters were protesting and looting. He only wants peace and unity now that he believes he has been elected.
    
    15 6
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    December 1, 2020 10:58am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, he HAS been elected. And it would be hard to do worse than his predecessor in fomenting more division. So here’s hoping that Americans can get a bit better at being citizens rather than republicans or democrats.
      
      6 8
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      December 1, 2020 12:19pm
      - Fletch
        
        C’mon MM. You don’t really believe Biden has been elected fairly. I am sure Biden himself doesn’t even believe that.
        
        5 4
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        December 1, 2020 2:00pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Amen
        
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        December 1, 2020 2:10pm
- Fletch
  
  LOL! This from the guy who was calling Trump a nazi and Hitler during his campaign now calling for calm. The hypocrisy makes me want to vomit. Especially when we know that if roles were reversed that liberals would be rioting and burning cities in America. Republicans, on the other hand, are showing restrained but warranted concern for the fraud and the election being stolen.
  
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  December 1, 2020 1:58pm
- IC5000
  
  I guess Trumps voter suppression campaign targeted at minorities didn’t work this time around. Diddums Maggie.
  
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  December 1, 2020 3:00pm
graham

I found it fascinating to read Stuff’s ‘apology to Maori’ yesterday. In the article, they said that “our coverage of Māori issues over the past 160 years ranged from racist to blinkered. Seldom was it fair or balanced in terms of representing Māori.”

And that “the narrative remained divisive.”

I’m fascinated by their cognitive dissonance … because how is this different to their coverage of Donald Trump? These are just some of the headlines and narrative I found in a 30-second Google search – all from Stuff, who are now so keen to be ‘fair and balanced’.

Tell me these headlines and musings in the pages of Stuff are fair and balanced.

Why’s it so hard for us to say out loud that Trump has lost his mind?

Why is it so hard for us to say out loud the blazingly obvious about the president of the United States: that he has utterly lost his mind. If Donald Trump were appointed the principal of your local secondary school tomorrow, you’d have pulled your kids out by Wednesday and he’d be gone by Friday. If he was mayor of your town, you’d pretend to live somewhere else. If he was a dog, you’d be making whispered phone calls to your vet.

I mean, I used to think Ronald Reagan and George W Bush were intellectually sub-par – but, by God, they’re Mensa material compared to this guy. Meanwhile, his immediate past predecessor, Barack Obama, is as intellectually far ahead of Trump as it’s possible to be while still belonging to the same species.

Chch terror victim’s praise for Trump typical of his ‘generosity’

Ahmed thanked Trump for his humanity and standing up for religious groups, prompting reaction that Ahmed was again showing great love and generosity even if the subject was undeserving.

Donald Trump continues to refuse defeat in rambling 45-minute TV interview

For Donald Trump, 20 days of fantasy and failure

The facts were indisputable: President Donald Trump had lost.

But Trump refused to see it that way. Sequestered in the White House and brooding out of public view after his election defeat, rageful and at times delirious in a torrent of private conversations, Trump was, in the telling of one close adviser, like “Mad King George, muttering, ‘I won. I won. I won.'”

Trump pardons a turkey in one of the more normal things he’s done this month

Pardoning a turkey is usually one of the most farcical things a president does in a year, but Trump granting clemency to a corpulent bird in the Rose Garden is somehow the most normal thing that’s happened in Washington all month.
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December 1, 2020 9:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  All true. Being ‘fair’ to Trump doesn’t mean subscribing to his alternative version of reality.
  He’s a loser.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:21am
  - Inandout
    
    m&m, ‘loser’ is probably the first word you uttered; well the first intelligible word anyway.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:09am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Who helped you formulate that insult? It doesn’t sound like something your Mum would say.
      
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      December 1, 2020 12:20pm
  - freethinker
    
    Well you certainly fit that bill.
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:18am
- Paulus
  
  Our lovely Auckland Rose Garden is going to have a concrete monstrosity to Erebus built in it.
  Serves the Rich Parnellites right.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:25am
Swifty

Tandoori Chicken and Venison Kebabs in Ruatori:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHBh_UBTeTs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_vZeWzkjBk

Chur
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December 1, 2020 9:26am
- Swifty
  
  *Ruatoria
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:37am
chukar

Is it this the same David Farrar who is holding a “Goodbye Donald Trump” breakfast on the lawn at parliament on 21 January?

If so he can join Stuff in the rubbish bin!
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December 1, 2020 9:42am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Seems a good reason for a party.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:22am
- Gravelroad
  
  Chukar- I don’t care if the Trump haters have a party.
  Not so sure about having it at Parliament though – seems inappropriate. Better to have it at some posh restaurant on the waterfront.
  Put it this way- if Trump had won, do we think that his supporters (OMG probably wearing MAGA hats)
  would have been allowed to gather anywhere at all in Parliament grounds to celebrate?
  No, of course they wouldn’t.
  
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  December 1, 2020 1:53pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I don’t think you need permission to have a picnic on the lawn at parliament, so go right ahead and organize your own breakfast to celebrate Trump’s 2nd inauguration…
    
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    December 1, 2020 2:38pm
Maggie Pie

So what happened to “…we’re in this together” and “…the team of 5 million”

Now it’s all our fault.
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December 1, 2020 9:45am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who told the Police to get out of Ihumatao?
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:06am
Swifty

Forced marriage is rape.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/123486383/case-of-forced-marriage-reported-in-wellington-hampered-by-jurisdiction-issue

Sickening.

Jail and deportation (where appropriate) for all responsible for it. The ‘clerics’, the parents, the ‘groom/rapist’; everyone.
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December 1, 2020 9:50am
- Inandout
  
  Swifty, ‘If this story had an impact on you, please become a Stuff supporter’. Umm, no sorry.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:12am
- MCos
  
  Back in the sixties and prior there were plenty of forced marriages in NZ; although they were slightly more subtle than arranged marriages.
  Maybe they weren’t.
  They involved a very young couple with the female pregnant.
  
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  December 1, 2020 2:57pm
plc

Chris Trotter not happy with Stuff….calls them uninformed and lacking understanding of colonial context
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December 1, 2020 9:54am
- Jack5
  
  At least we still have some English-language newspapers: the Herald, others in the NZME chain, and the Otago Daily Times.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:34am
Aunty

No, it’s not just another flu, ratlickers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLmMPOHDwM
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December 1, 2020 10:02am
- Inandout
  
  Aunty, no, just a bad flu.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:13am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  —Copied from elsewhere but I have, as the lying media would say. ‘fact-checked’ it:—
  
  2015: Ministry of Health stated there were 767 deaths from the flu (about 7 Kiwis out of 100,000 – much better however than the 49 people per 100,000 in 1970.
  
  2017: Otago University scientists’ study concluded the flu is likely New Zealand’s single biggest infectious disease killer, accounting for about 1.8 per cent of annual deaths in the country. Published in the Journal of Infection.
  
  2019: University of Otago’s professor Michael Baker: “…these (susceptible) groups add up to around 500 deaths per year in New Zealand, a figure higher than last year’s road toll. This makes influenza one of the biggest infectious disease killers in the country.”
  
  —So Aunty, you’re right, it’s not just another flu. It’s notably less serious than the previous major outbreaks – or it could have been if we had not given in to hysteria and a huuuuuge and continuing overreaction even once all could see the curve was plainly flattened (which was the only reason we cooperated with the first lockdown, while awaiting better evidence on the XiVirus’s behavior).
  
  Now we have that evidence and The Princess of the Pestilence is still driving our country into overdraft, unemployment, depression and suicide.
  
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  December 1, 2020 12:37pm
- rangitoto
  
  Around 34 million people have recovered from SARS COV 2 infection. A large proportion didn’t know they had it until tested.
  
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  December 1, 2020 3:01pm
lastmanstanding

Hey Cindy. So now your blaming the citizens for the increase in house prices. So explain this. I live in the same house I bought in 1979. So how have I contributed to the increase.

Stop making bull shit accusations. All you do is prove your as thick as pig shit.
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December 1, 2020 10:04am
- tf78
  
  Me too only it was 1978 for me.
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:27am
- alex Masterley
  
  Same here, except it was 2000
  
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  December 1, 2020 10:48am
SB2

Mick West host of Metabunk exposes the flawed analysis by Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia claiming New York Times voting data feed shows “ data manipulation by artificial means,”” that does not occur in the real world indicates fraud.

Mick West finds that Navid Keshavarz-Nia claim that Trump’s vote advantage of 700,000 was a reduced to 300,000 in a short 3 hours is utter nonsense . In fact Trump gained 700,000 in six hours of counting . Biden gains were within a 12 hour time frame .This is not unusual and shows “no data manipulation by artificial means “

“Debunked: Navid Keshavarz-Nia’s Claims of “A Sudden Rise in Slope” as Election Fraud Evidence”

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-navid-keshavarz-nias-claims-of-a-sudden-rise-in-slope-as-election-fraud-evidence.11469/

Dr. Navid Keshavarz-Nia a so-called” expert “indeed
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December 1, 2020 10:26am
- C J Southern
  
  Yep. This is the reason all the crackpot theories never make it to court; they sound great to all those who want to believe (listen to a group of prisoners complaining about how they were unfairly convicted and you’ll probably agree with them too) but almost without exception they just don’t hold water.
  
  They make many feel “justified” … but they’re not valid.
  
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  December 1, 2020 11:19am
  - emmess
    
    All the early morning vote dumps in the swing state were well over three standard deviations out
    
    That dotted black line at the top is the 99.5th percentile. In other words, only one out of every two-hundred points are above it. The four vote dumps in question are all at or above the 99.92th percentile. With these ratios, if they were at the 99th percentile only, they would each be dragged down to the middle of the three lines shown.
    Critically, they account for more than the margin of victory in all three states, and thus forty-two electoral votes, and with them, the Presidency.
    
    https://www.revolver.news/2020/11/definitive-case-proves-donald-trump-won-election/
    
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    December 1, 2020 11:45am
    - C J Southern
      
      So you keep saying. But what you never say is why this evidence isn’t being presented to a court by Trumps lawyers.
      
      I’ll tell you the reason – it’s because it’s BS.
      
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      December 1, 2020 12:39pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        You obviously haven’t had a look at what has been presented.
        There has been sufficient introductory evidence and of probative quality that higher Courts will deal with it properly.
        
        There’s too much smoke for there not to be a fire somewhere. With such furious media I don’t give the same value to each report. The outcome will be fascinating.
        
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        December 1, 2020 2:32pm
      - SGA
        
        There’s too much smoke for there not to be a fire somewhere.
        
        meh – at the moment, it looks much more like throw enough excrement about and see if any attaches, and even if it doesn’t then at least you’ve left the impression that something smells.
        
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        December 1, 2020 3:45pm
      - emmess
        
        No evidence being presented in court?
        What the hell is this then?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rri6flxaXww&t=20s
        
        Do you think all these people are perjuring themselves?
        Have all these people been somehow tricked into saying things that will get them sent to jail?
        Who are the conspiracy theorists?
        
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        December 1, 2020 5:40pm
      - C J Southern
        
        No Kev – the outcome will be predictable.
        
        1. The courts will continue to throw out baseless claims (ie all of them).
        
        2. Election officials will continue the process just as they have so far.
        
        3. You lot will continue to clutch at straws whilst your boat sinks further and further in the water.
        
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        December 1, 2020 7:46pm
    - C J Southern
      
      This is the BS that I see time and time again from moon landing hoax believers.
      
      We get crap like “the aluminium of the spacecraft melts at 1200 deg C – and yet it’s 3000 deg C in the mesosphere – therefore it’s all a hoax because the spacecraft would have melted – therefore it was all faked.
      
      Then others come along and start quoting the flawed theory as “evidence”.
      
      Unfortunately for them – it’s false logic; yes – the metal may melt at that temp – and yes it is that hot in that area – but they’re making the mistake of assuming that the temperature of that area would quickly transfer when of course it doesn’t because of the massive difference in effective thermal density (the same reason pouring a jug of boiling water into the ocean doesn’t cause the ocean to start boiling).
      
      Exactly the same here. If you think the data is valid then put it before a judge – but be prepared to have it torn to shreds by qualified statitions and mathematitians. That’s the problem you have with all these theories; nobody with a chosen position wants to hear any pushback – but that doesn’t mean it goes away.
      
      Bottom line is that if it’s not been presented to a court then there’s probably only 2 reasons for that (1) nobody thought of it or (2) it doesn’t hold up. And when you consider that it doesn’t even meet the standard of the “strained legal arguments” (judge’s words, not mine) that have been presented so far then I think that tells you all you need to know about how credible it is. Or isn’t to be more accurate.
      
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      December 1, 2020 12:58pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Those out-of-statistical range and out-of-view data dumps, their timing and significance by State points to collusion that demands contrary justification.
      
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      December 1, 2020 2:45pm
      - C J Southern
        
        No – they do however point to desperate attempts by people to create something that isn’t there.
        
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        December 1, 2020 7:48pm
Jack5

Will Mrs Hamilton let Scott out to play on Kiwblog today, or is it back to work on the 40-volume history of colonialism in the South Pacific? ?
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December 1, 2020 10:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Probably depends upon how many old myths are recycled on the blog.
  
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  December 1, 2020 12:21pm
- Scott Hamilton
  
  My wife was actually ticking me off for commenting on KB yesterday, Jack. She’s gone out but I have write my column for North and South this afternoon, or else – it’s not about race relations but about our forgotten domestic travel writers of the 1930s – people like Robin Hyde and John Pascoe, who might just be guides for today’s domestic tourists, now that overseas has been abolished.
  
  But let me at least offer a link in response to your complaint that BLM-ish people only want to tear statues down, and that Bishop Patteson would never survive on an Auckland plinth. I want to get rid of statues of warmongers and psychopaths like George Grey, but replace them with some of the good Pakeha of the 19th C. I provided a list of Pakeha heroes:
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/09-07-2020/four-pakeha-heroes-for-empty-plinths/
  There’s nothing stopping us celebrating the good parts of our history, at the same time as we identify the bad stuff.
  
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  December 1, 2020 1:12pm
  - Jack5
    
    Robin Hyde? There’s an interesting writer, Scott. I enjoyed her book, Passport to Hell, about Starkie, the NZ Army scout who remained a legend in Southland for decades after World War 1.
    
    Hyde met a sad end on her travels. Her life and talent might be a good basis for a film.
    
    I think James Douglas Stark’s father ran a pub in Invercargill in the wild days that led to local prohibition about 1911.
    
    Folk attributed his brownish skin to his being partly native American, but I believe others think one of his ancestors came from the West Indies.
    
    Good luck with your column. We’ll joust on Kiwiblog another day. ?
    
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    December 1, 2020 1:39pm
    - Scott Hamilton
      
      Robin Hyde was incredible, wasn’t she? So much work, so young, dead at 32. Did she ever sleep? The real Starkie is buried up the road from me, in Waikumete Cemetery. Hyde did this cool series of pieces for NZ Railways Magazine, which was the equivalent of today’s in-flight magazines, called Adventures of a Train Tramp – they are now online, along with the rest of magazine, at the NZ Electronic Text Centre: http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Gov10_01Rail-t1-body-d9.html
      
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      December 1, 2020 1:58pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I doubt that folks will find lovers amongst the lupins at Castlecliff Beach these days.
    
    I must pay a tribute [ . . . ] to the heavy manna-sweetness of the scent of lupins, growing by the hundred thousand out at Castlecliff, and notorious for the lovers they harboured.
    
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    December 1, 2020 2:30pm
Maggie Pie

Just heard on ZB News that an elderly gentleman now in his 80’s ( refered to as ‘Mr X’) has come out to the Royal Commission of Inquiry, and accused a Catholic Priest of sexually abusing him when he was 14.
Look I know it’s probably terrible and all that, but I used to really love Wine Gums.
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December 1, 2020 11:16am
- RJ
  
  Wine Gums, was that the name of the toothless priest?
  
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  December 1, 2020 1:32pm
Alan Wilkinson

Remember when we had cartoonists who were funny? Our present ones are appallingly dreadful.

I have to go to Matt at the Telegraph to enjoy some wit and insight.
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December 1, 2020 11:35am
- curry4me
  
  Alan Wilkinson: If you like good cartoons, try reading The Spectator. Sometimes the humour is so dry, I cant even get it.
  
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  December 1, 2020 12:20pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Thanks. I will.
    
    4 1
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    December 1, 2020 2:02pm
- Jack5
  
  Matt is witty.
  
  Alan is right that our cartoons lack humour.
  
  For a cartoonist, being able to draw isn’t enough.
  
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  December 1, 2020 1:42pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    The appalling quality of our cartoonists also speaks to the quality of the editors who choose them. Clearly the right politics and diversity are the only criteria that matter.
    
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    December 1, 2020 2:24pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHTxsrBiFFw

Morrison will ‘absolutely not’ join Biden and Trudeau in ‘the Great Reset.

Sky News host Paul Murray says Prime Minister Scott Morrison is “absolutely not” going to secretly join Joe Biden and Justin Trudeau by following along with the Great Reset. “For those of you who believe he (Scott Morrison) is going to secretly going fall along with Biden, Trudeau or anyone else with the Great reset, he is absolutely not going in that direction,” Mr Murray said. Mr Murray showed footage of a recent speech the prime minister gave to London. In his speech, Mr Morrison said, “We don’t need to reset our economic agenda, we just need to get on with it.” “Thank God this bloke is leading the country,” Mr Murray said.
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December 1, 2020 11:47am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgwlwyiRY8

Chinese communist regime has ‘disgraced itself’ for the entire world to see.

Sky News host Chris Smith says the Chinese communist regime has “disgraced themselves in front of the world” after posting a doctored picture of an Australian soldier holding a knife to a child’s neck. “The Chinese Communist Party and its regressive government have outdone themselves,” Mr Smith said. The doctored image – which has not been censored by Twitter despite being faked – were published by China’s foreign ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian who said he was “shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers”.
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December 1, 2020 11:47am
Bobba Fret

Unfortunately when the 10 days of sick leave comes in, our warehouse staff will simply see it as an extra weeks holiday a year. Currently around 85% of all sick days are Mondays and Fridays. Once the five days are used up they either get unpaid leave or have to use an annual day. With 10 days sick leave it will be roughly a day off every month with only two being annual days.
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December 1, 2020 11:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Staff will just have to be reduced to to be fund the extra perks. Shorter hours?
  
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  December 1, 2020 2:18pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Cant reduce hours as the work would not get done especially with all the extra Mondays being taken as “sick leave”
    
    3 1
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    December 1, 2020 3:02pm
    - Harriet
      
      They can’t all be taking sick leave – why don’t you just swap all the sick days to a bonus system for those who don’t take days off, plus add in other things like monthly targets being hit, monthly business revenue, sales etc. having increased —- then give it out as a monthly bonus in front of all other staff.
      
      The others will soon realise that it is front up or fuck off time.
      Sure you might be paying a ‘bit’ more than you should be but the ‘workers’ will be working harder for you and that will show up in the bottom line — and so will the new workers that have replaced all the lazy fucks.
      
      I’ve been saying it for years – give productive staff a monthly bonus and unions can’t do anything at all about your workplace. It’s insurance! 😎
      
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      December 1, 2020 5:43pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The remaining staff just have to work harder. They surely cannot expect to be paid at rates which will bust the business?
      A little grumbling is better than no job.
      
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      December 1, 2020 6:27pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  After seeing all the downticks to the blog entry above I am somewhat reluctant to add my 2 cents worth but here goes anyway…
  
  In addition to the extra week of sick leave, the PM is still keen to add Matariki as another holliday and now Stuff has an article about requests to allow another paid day off on one’s birthday.
  
  Running a small business is already quite challenging with most going under even in the best of times. Adding more financial burdens to businesses now in the most difficult time in 15 years doesn’t seem very wise.
  
  Extending the debt repayment moratorium for Zombie companies for another year to October 2021 will likely cause more (currently solvent) debtors to go under as well.
  
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  December 1, 2020 2:27pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The word “wise” is never used in referring to Ardern R. or her Gobblement.
    
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    December 1, 2020 6:32pm
  - Mark
    
    I ran a furniture manufacturing business in Aucks for 12 years prior to 2000 ,finished up with 35 staff,explained to every one of them that life was tough and getting tougher by the year.Showed them the books yadda yadda ,peer pressure ensured no one took the piss ,sickies wise,and we survived ,but in the end I sold out because thanks to RWNJ dribble dicks enablement,I could not compete with Chines prison slave labour ,thanks team ,I did not lose my house but a lot of my friends in the industry did ,and their marriages and their lives .All sacrificed on the altar of free trade.You make me vomit .
    
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    December 1, 2020 8:23pm
curry4me

The Address in Reply Speech by the Leader of the Opposition. David Seymour.

http://auckland.scoop.co.nz/2020/11/david-seymour-address-in-reply-speech-to-parliament/
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December 1, 2020 11:50am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Tried to watch QT today but it’s not the same anymore. Shift in numbers means it’s out of balance with patsies.
  And the tattooed Maori party idiot with his stupid hat on means I probably won’t go back.
  
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  December 1, 2020 4:18pm
  - mandk
    
    QT has been a waste of time for ages.
    
    Ministers responding have been allowed to largely ignore the questions and to grandstand.
    
    The questioners are not afforded the same opportunity.
    
    If I were National, I would not bother asking Ardern any questions in the House, but would collar the journalists in the lobby instead.
    
    E.g. Why aren’t you picking up the PM for not implementing a single recommendation from the Welfare Working Group? / When are you going to report on the extraordinary increase in the housing waiting list? / Why don’t you call out the clear and obvious decline in educational attainment?
    
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    December 1, 2020 4:36pm
  - curry4me
    
    Captain Mainwaring: The MP doubles as a clown show. And they do it gratis. Jolly nice of them.
    
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    December 1, 2020 4:49pm
Maggie Pie

Why is it, that every time I get the Corn Starch out to add to my cake mix, suddenly there’s shit everywhere?
5 8
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December 1, 2020 12:02pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just roll around in it… great for those little chaffed areas.
  
  https://www.stayathomemum.com.au/houseandhome/diy-cleaning-products/12-amazing-uses-cornflour/
  
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  December 1, 2020 12:18pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    They don’t mention what Annabel Langbein recommends – replacing 2tbs of Flour with Cornstarch to make it wonderfully moist.
    
    4 6
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    December 1, 2020 12:27pm
Maggie Pie

And our thoughts & prayers are with the poor wounded Police Dog shot in the head up North this morning, while apprehending an offender.

Get well soon hun.
xxx
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December 1, 2020 12:31pm
Surely Knott

The media treated Judith Collins like she was playing cynical politics before the election, for discussing the capital gains tax when Labour had clearly ruled it out. By ruling it out they took the discussion off the debate table and out of the media.
Next Minute headlines….”Hamish Rutherford: Grant Robertson flatly ruled out changes to the bright-line test. Now he isn’t”
Will the media apologise to Collins?
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December 1, 2020 1:13pm
Maggie Pie

LOL! What about these poor sad losers phoning talkback and saying….. “They always check the ‘sugar content’ of stuff in the supermarket before they buy it”

Same ones that want ME to pay a sugar-tax I guess.
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December 1, 2020 1:29pm
- MCos
  
  Years ago I took the kids to Disneyland in Anaheim. We went to a supermarket to buy some breakfast cereal.
  There was acres of shelving full of the stuff, but according to the boxes we looked at it was all more than 50% sugar. My son settled on something with an impressive picture of a rocket on the box and wouldn’t be deterred even when I pointed out it was almost solid sugar.
  Next day he had one mouthful and chucked it in the garbage.
  
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  December 1, 2020 3:14pm
- Inandout
  
  Yet Maggie they probably are unaware that the food or ingredients come from China. I think sugar use will let me live longer than unknown crop spray use.
  
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  December 1, 2020 4:01pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Exactly! Anything with ‘China’ on the label, i always put back on the shelf. Made the mistake of buying some Doggy Treats for Gladys once. Pigs Ears. Turns out they were from Chinaaaa. Even she turned her back on them. They know you know.
    
    5 4
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    December 1, 2020 4:51pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes, pigs’ ears fattened on human effluent is not healthy fodder for any Kritter.
      
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      December 1, 2020 8:50pm
I remember when

Just looking thru some of the blogs about the rising price of housing.
Maybe it is a good idea for Judith Collins and David Seymour to be sidelined on this issue.
This leaves the media with nobody to talk to but Jacinda. If Jacinda is the only news then at some stage they have to start asking probing questions.
The more fanciful the answers the deeper the hole.
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December 1, 2020 2:03pm
graham

I’m guessing Stuff, having received by all accounts a considerable backlash over their virtue-signalling yesterday, will either:

(a) Quietly backtrack; or
(b) Double down, taking it as proof that we’re all a bunch of racists, and it takes a fearless media organisation such as themselves to stand up and hold us all to account.

Sadly, I suspect (b). I think these clowns are starting to believe their own BS and see themselves as the guardians of truth, fearlessly fighting for truth, honour, and democracy! Cue the heroic music!

Their latest version of “please give us your money” is quite Mittyesque:

Our journalists hold elected officials to account, but powerful politicals have a slick PR playbook. They can toss the ‘fake news’ accusation at anything that counters their narrative, and turn to social media platforms to speak unchecked. The independence and expertise of our political reporters is more important than ever.

Stuff’s political team ensures those leading New Zealand through these uncharted territories effectively represent you. We’re asking for support to keep pressing for answers, cutting through spin, challenging policy decisions, measuring progress and seeking the truth.

If you value our democracy, please consider becoming a Stuff supporter

… etc.

Seriously, how can they write this stuff without bursting into laughter?
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December 1, 2020 2:16pm
- RJ
  
  I’m guessing iwi are rather pleased with the opportunity they will soon get to buy stuff for 20c
  
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  December 1, 2020 5:10pm
- C J Southern
  
  It irritates me just as much as most others here – and nothing would make my day more than hearing credible reports that they’d ceased training – but regardless of what I’d LIKE to occur, the reality is that left/”wokeness” is gaining traction in society.
  
  Thus this new direction/strategy could well prove successful for them. Unfortunately.
  
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  December 1, 2020 7:52pm
I remember when

‘People with one house and four children’.
Have we discovered a part of the population who are really being discriminated against.
Is it fair that higher income people often have smaller families. This allows them to be ‘the bank of mum and dad’ when their children want to buy a house.
Imagine the psychological damage it does to the parents unable to help who are made to feel they have failed.
Should children from larger families be placed at the front the queue for buying their own property?
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December 1, 2020 2:24pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  “Don’t breed them if you can’t feed them.”
  
  This seems to make some people angry. Dunno why. The truth of the assertion seems obvious to me.
  
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  December 1, 2020 9:28pm
Fletch

One of the witnesses describing blatant voter fraud in AZ has been suspended by Twitter. I guess they didn’t like it….

Big Tech tyranny is alive and well in Twitterville as they have suspended Bobby Piton, a pivotal witness in today’s voter fraud hearing before the Arizona state legislature. His searing testimony pointed out blatant voter fraud through incontrovertible evidence, at one point claiming he’d stake his life on the factual nature of his testimony.
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December 1, 2020 2:25pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  There is no ‘hearing before the Arizona state legislature’…
  
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  December 1, 2020 7:30pm
Goon

Yikes…..it’s an emergency all right.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/11/low-lying-pacific-island-continuing-to-expand-despite-sea-level-rise-scientists.html

Now what would be funny is if the Orange Guy got the last laugh on sleepy, creepy (and his omnishambles climate muppet-tzar*) after all by submitting the Paris agreement to the Senate:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-stop-the-paris-climate-accord-11606684590

*surely putting John Kerry in charge of anything is a sign you don’t give a fuck about it
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December 1, 2020 3:04pm
Wayne1749

Sorry, it it ‘misogynistic’ or ‘sexist’ to question how the hell a jury could find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt 16 years after the case, and when there were only two people in the room – the plaintiff and the accused?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/auckland-man-craig-koning-on-trial-for-rape-denies-using-suicide-threat-to-muzzle-partner/R25MOFKJMOFZJLKELPEUP4GRXM/
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December 1, 2020 3:29pm
Great White Buffalo

I have just read an extraordinary article in the NZ Herald penned by Jamie Morton titled “Lockdown crushes flu toll in NZ”. The irony and ignorance is laughable at best and deeply tragic at worst. The article states that more than 200,000 NZers catch flu each year and that around 500 of them die from it. This year however, there have been only 500 cases of the flu detected with 474 of those occurring pre-lockdown. Medical experts, Dr Nikki Turner, Dr Sue Hang and the Professor Michael Baker, variously state that they are amazed that NZ’s covid-19 interventions, ie lockdown and detainment, have caused a massive reduction in flu rates and related deaths. Really? You don’t know that locking people inside, preventing them from working, eating out, visiting friends, going to school etc would slow and block the transmission of respiratory viruses? And if you didn’t know that, why then did you (Professor Michael Baker in particular) strongly recommend the hard lockdown strategy? The real irony and tragedy in Morton’s article though comes from Professor Baker’s statement that “…We’ve accepted it as a fact…these viral respiratory infections that plague us every year…are responsible for much of our [winter deaths].” Yes Professor, we as a society do accept as a fact that people (sadly) die every year as a result of respiratory infections but we’ve never detained and restricted the population as a result. If we need to lockdown our people to prevent covid-19 spreading (1,700 confirmed cases in total, 25 deaths) we should certainly have been locking them down over the years to constrain seasonal flu (200,000 cases annually and 500 deaths).
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December 1, 2020 4:26pm
- Cinematic
  
  Still plenty of COVID arriving into NZ. Daily cases. Yet no deaths. How can this be?
  
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  December 1, 2020 5:35pm
- RdM
  
  And let’s not forget that
  
  https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
  
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  December 2, 2020 2:39am
Swifty

An insight into the thinking of leading Islamic clerics and others on current world events.

Al-Aqsa Mosque Lesson By Sheikh Issam Amira: The Beheading Of French Teacher Paty Is A Great Honor For All Muslims

https://www.memri.org/tv/Palestinian-al-aqsa-issam-amira-beheading-france-samuel-paty-great-honor-muslims

Al-Aqsa Mosque Lecture By Political Researcher Ahmad Al-Khatwani: An Islamic State Will Conquer Rome, Liberate Al-Andalus, Extinguish Polytheism In The Vatican, And Rule The World

https://www.memri.org/tv/palestinian-reseracher-khatwani-aqsa-mosque-islamic-state-conquer-rome-rule-the-world

Pakistani Journalist Mian Haseeb Madni Pledges 50 Million Rupees As Reward To Anyone Who Beheads French President Macron

https://www.memri.org/tv/pakistan-journalist-mian-haseeb-madni-pledges-reward-for-beheading-macron

Miami Imam Dr. Yousef Fadi Kablawi: The Narrative That Samuel Paty Was Beheaded By A Chechen Is ‘Bogus’ Just Like The 9/11 Narrative; The Attack Was Staged By French Authorities To Frame The Muslims

https://www.memri.org/tv/miami-imam-fadi-kablawi-france-beheading-story-bogus-like-911-narrative

Al-Aqsa Mosque Address By Sheikh Ali Abu Ahmad: Boycotting French Products Is Not The Answer To Macron; We Should Establish A Caliphate, Crush Paris With Our Armies

https://www.memri.org/tv/palestinian-sheikh-ali-ahmad-answer-marcon-don-garb-war-establish-caliphate-crush-paris

Syracuse, NY Imam Khadar Bin Muhammad: Women Can Never Be Free Of The Men In Their Family, A Girl Can Leave Her Father’s Home Only Upon Marriage Or Death

https://www.memri.org/tv/syracuse-imam-khadar-muhammad-men-regularly-check-in-women-relatives-behavior-never-free

Mauritanian Islamic Scholar Mohamed Ould Khattari: The Quran Teaches Us To Be Enemies Of the Jews; Normalization Is An Attempt To Do Away With The Disgust Muslims Feel Towards Jews

https://www.memri.org/tv/mauritanian-islamic-scholar-khattari-against-normalization-quran-says-jews-sworn-enemies

I wonder whether our news media will ever entertain some long-form interviews with leaders in the NZ Muslim community and go over their attitudes to these issues?
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December 1, 2020 4:26pm
- Swifty
  
  For balance;
  
  ‘Sam And Ammar’ On Al-Hurra TV, Following Terror Attacks In Europe: We Always Insist That We Are Victims Of A Conspiracy; We Take Zero Responsibility For Anything
  
  https://www.memri.org/tv/egyptian-american-researcher-sam-tadros-paty-beheading-muslims-insist-innocent-victims
  
  …and in partial response to footage (above) in which a Miami-based imam claims that the murder of Samuel Paty was staged in order to frame Muslims and that ‘the infidels’ can never be trusted. Just to emphasise this – a Miami Muslim cleric preaching that the French authorities killed Paty and that non-Muslims can and should never be trusted not to lie (my words).
  
  Gee, so peaceful…..
  
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  December 1, 2020 5:21pm
- Mike
  
  And you believe these attitudes are widely shared by NZ muslims.
  
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  December 1, 2020 7:05pm
RJ

I have no problem with these companies being charged with health and safety issues they have within their company before the rescues but seriously this just shows how fucked up this is, asbestos. If these charges are this pathetic work safe need to be prosecuted for wasting court time

Law said one of the six charges laid against Kahu NZ relates to the company’s failure to implement a sufficient asbestos management plan

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/12/white-island-eruption-worksafe-charges-against-kahu-nz-helicopter-company-silly-owner.html
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December 1, 2020 5:04pm
RJ

A good opening by Sean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvoA8feXwqA
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December 1, 2020 5:34pm
Jack5

Batteries from the the first wave of electric cars and hybrid vehicles are about to reach the end of their lifespan. This will mean a mountain of used batteries.

Wired Magazine says the EV revolution has created an e-waste timebomb—and cracking lithium-ion recycling is the only way to defuse it.

At present, the most common technique, pyrometallurgy, usually entails burning the batteries in a furnace powered by fossil fuel.

The article:
https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-crack-battery-recycling-before-its-too-late/
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December 1, 2020 5:54pm
- Ian Boag
  
  A battery that has gone below useful levels for a car still has heaps of storage capacity compared to deep-cycle lead-acid cells used in off-grid and solar setups. “Worn out” Li-ion traction batteries would work fine in a setup where the size, weight and storage capacity really don’t matter much.
  
  https://www.driven.co.nz/news/how-used-ev-batteries-can-be-recycled-for-domestic-solar-use/
  
  Kicks the can some distance down the road ….
  
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  December 1, 2019 6:33pm
  - oob
    
    It does indeed.
    
    Our friend Brynn is doing exactly this, in Sanson.
    
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    December 1, 2020 6:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Give your batteries to Julie Ann Genter. On the front lawn, next to her bike
  
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  December 1, 2020 6:33pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    An electric bike is all they are good for when they get to below 50% capacity.
    
    Unlike electric cars with daily use, ICE engine efficiency does not drop to 50% in five years.
    
    Lithium Ion batteries are becoming a major problem with disposable. No Lithium Ion battery, not even one, can end up in the trash or wrong recycling plant.
    
    https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/28/21156477/recycling-plants-fire-batteries-rechargeable-smartphone-lithium-ion
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54634802
    
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    December 1, 2020 10:35pm
- SB2
  
  Recycling lithium-ion batteries from electric vehicles
  
  The facts are that already waste management strategies are recycling materials from car batteries especially cobalt ( only mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo) and other rare metals used therein,
  
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5
  
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  December 1, 2020 6:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Huge traffic jam on the Shore caused by a fuckup on the motorway – 2 hours to get home, it is an 8 minute drive on a Sunday.
Anyway that commie prick Phil Goff was on Red Radio going on about a 5% Rates increase. Seemed to think it is no big deal, costing each household about $36. FUCK! can someone take this idiot to a primary school and teach him some math please?
My Rates are over $2600 pa. 5% of that is NOT $36 idiot, it is $130 ffs. Not hard to work out in your head but for commie Goff it is impossible. Lefties just do not understand basic numbers.

Rant over, FUCK
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December 1, 2020 6:32pm
- Surely Knott
  
  I agree Steve. I think he’s screwed up his maths. And the journalists haven’t picked it up or called him on it either. The 5% increase on a $1mill home will be more like $130 not $36. It’s extremely misleading.
  
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  December 1, 2020 6:49pm
- C J Southern
  
  I’d LOVE to only pay $2.6K in rates.
  
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  December 1, 2020 7:54pm
  - muppeth8r
    
    Then move.
    
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    December 1, 2020 8:26pm
- Mark
  
  Pull yer head in yer plonker ,we pay more than that to live up north with no services.Stop being a wanky twat diddums and cough up and send the bill to Rodney Hide .Crikey that clusterfuck he arranged turned out well did it not?Jeez you wing nuts are beyond pathetic.Honestly you are beyond pathetic ,and getting beneath contempt,God help me .
  
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  December 1, 2020 8:53pm
mikenmildagain

China accuses Australia of war crimes with doctored photo and insults.
Scott Morrison: “The Chinese government should be totally ashamed of this post. It diminishes them in the world’s eyes. It is an absolutely outrageous and disgusting slur. Australia is seeking an apology from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and we are seeking it be removed from Twitter.”
Jacinda Ardern: “I’ve seen some of the latest discussion over what was a Twitter image. New Zealand has registered directly with Chinese authorities our concern over the use of that image. It was an unfactual post, and of course that would concern us”
Judith Collins: “It’s not something I’ve turned my mind to … The Government always needs to take an independent foreign policy”
Gerry Brownlee: While there was a “historically strong” trans-Tasman relationship, New Zealand had also developed “strong relationships with China over the years … and of course, they’re an important trading partner”.
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December 1, 2020 7:58pm
Surely Knott

If nz is geographically unique and can keep a widespread virus from entering our borders, why not drugs, why not guns?
If sightseers legally visit an active volcano, sign a waiver and the volcano blows up the scientists advising on the volcano are still charged?
When drug users get their illegal drugs test they also sign a waiver, but if the drug user then overdoses, it appears these scientists will be protected by legislation being pushed through to protect theses scientists?
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December 2, 2020 8:35am

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