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November 24, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 November 2020

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Maggie Pie

NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has spoken with president elect Joe Biden.

“He sounded very interested and excited when I raised the idea of us visiting school children together.”
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November 24, 2020 8:04am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I know you kidding but that conversation is actually plausible.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:12am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    I heard she asked Joe whether putting teddy bears in front windows during a lockdown was a worthwhile strategy
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:09am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Would you want Joe Biden to be left alone with your young daughters?
    
    https://twitter.com/i/events/930120742422716416?lang=en
    
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    November 24, 2020 4:11pm
- pdm
  
  I bet all of the `phone tappers’ were cringing at the level of intellect during that conversation.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:14am
- Ehlana
  
  School children? Don’t they have those in America? What about Rocket Lab or a sustainable farm?
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:26am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Lot’s of new hair to sniff.
    
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    November 24, 2020 8:37am
  - doggone7
    
    They have school children here too. Very regularly, demonstrating their maturity.
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:39am
    - Ehlana
      
      Perhaps I should have specified school-aged children. As opposed to chronically immature adults.
      
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      November 24, 2020 3:35pm
- MCos
  
  Doesn’t matter who the President is or PM, a good relationship between our two countries suits us just fine when it comes to trade talks, which is what it’s all about as far as NZ is concerned.
  Obama & Key seemed to get along well & Biden got an AB jersey when he came out here.
  Mike Pence sat with Ardern at some dinner, but his wife had to sit between them just in case the conversation got a bit racey.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:48am
  - pdm
    
    Did Mike Pence do Racey?
    
    Never heard that one before.
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      ‘Mother’ famously does not let Mike Pence be alone with any other woman.
      
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      November 24, 2020 11:11am
    - MCos
      
      His wife doesn’t trust him to be alone near a female.
      
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      November 24, 2020 12:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

NZ’s hydrogen production fairy tale
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/hydrogen-magic-pill-or-magic-bean
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November 24, 2020 8:04am
- G152
  
  Now all we need is sufficient power supplies to make enough hydrogen for this scheme viable.
  Maybe a reactor or two
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:13am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Thanks really interesting. Hydrogen has been hailed as saviour for 30 years. But nothing. The problem is that no minister in government knows anything about science or economics and especially the PM. When she talks about “hydrogen road map” she has no idea. It would be funny if a journalist asked her “Can you explain how hydrogen is made?”
  
  I’ll say it again. There is no need for the government to do anything. Markets will decide on the transition to post petroleum fuels. By picking winners, all the government will do is is lose vast amounts of money on boondoggle. Because given their track record (kiwibuild etc) those winners will be losers.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:26am
  - dave_c_
    
    Be careful what you wish for re “Markets will decide on the transition to post petroleum fuels”
    Big business and markets have a record of delaying the implementations of newer technologies and product. It is in their own financial interests (at times) when to put innovation back on the shelf.
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:08am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Individual businesses will try to stop innovation but not markets. For example, Kodak tried to stop digital cameras but was (literally in this case) killed by the market.
      
      To put it mildly, I am deeply skeptical of the New Zealand Government telling me that have a “hydrogen road map”.
      
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      November 24, 2020 10:45am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I dispude that! It is next to the pandemic response plan, gathering dust . . .
        
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        November 24, 2020 12:37pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        They don’t understand Covid-19, they don’t understand climate science, they have no concept of a roadmap given the absence of any roadmap for MIQ implementation.
        
        They don’t understand atmospheric science, watts, volts, amps and energy conversion, losses and efficiencies, as evidenced by the electric car fetish and pumped hydro.
        
        Lastly, they do not understand that govt should not be interfering in the market place, whether that be energy or children’s free lunches.
        
        I doubt that there is one positive foundation principle that any of them understand with certainty. Not the ten commandments, not physics, not economics, not biology, not karma.
        
        Help me out here, is there anything positive they do understand?
        
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        November 24, 2020 4:22pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Can you explain how hydrogen is made? – Don’t you know? It is “gen”erated from “hydro”. That is why it is called Hydrogen. Sheeple go – Awwwwwwhhhh
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:26am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Diatomic hydrogen is expensive to make and technically very difficult to store.
      Stick with coal-fired* EVs if you must.
      
      *In most countries
      
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      November 24, 2020 10:46am
      - Stu2
        
        Right!
        
        Hydrogen can get out of anything but the very best containments
        
        Japan and some of the Japanese car companies have a hydrogen phobia, but electric vehicles look very well suited to NZ and our largely clean power
        
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        November 24, 2020 1:42pm
      - freethinker
        
        Oda – Honda & Toyota are pursuing Hydrogen and neither of foolish by wasting money easily so I suspect that they know more than prof Krumdiek and would back this technical expertise against most comers. It occurs to me that changing the Batteries in a Prius for a fuel cell is feasible with too much engineering thereby increasing the length of the vehicles useful life. Honda already produce & sell a Hydrogen car the Clarity whihc sells in California and Hawaii were the latter has a public refueling network and some garages have their own solar produced Gas using off the shelf equipment although they can only achieve 5000 Psi instead of 10,000 which reduces the range by half to approx 250 Miles. It seems that local production is possible and whilst electrolysis is inefficient if the power (Sunshine) is free the capital cost v production volume may be ok. I don’t know the cost and life of a fuel cell against a battery which is another key cost aspect.
        
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        November 24, 2020 2:02pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    In a mid latitude country like ours Hydrogen only makes sense for long distance aviation and shipping, and possibly earthmovers/farming. But none of those applications exist yet, and they won’t in any real numbers for at least another 1-2 decades. So don’t waste time or money on Hydrogen. Let others do the development work, pay the early-adopter premium and we can pick it up in 10-20 years when the technology, kinks and costs have been optimised.
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:20am
  - giltee
    
    Just like when she was asked at Waitangi what the articles of the treaty were and she didn’t know. That was disgraceful for a person who’s handing out a lolly scramble to Maori but she got away with it. She’s all piss and wind and like Helen Clark is dangerous to the future prosperity of the country
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:12am
  - Paulus
    
    Back in the early eighties we had the Liquid Fuels Trust Board who ran cars on Hydrogen.
    Shut down by Lange Government.
    
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    November 24, 2020 1:51pm
- artemisia
  
  That is a lot of taxpayer money tipped into hydrogen production. Is New Zealand attempting to be first mover? Why not coat tail on other research around the world?
  
  ‘Miss, miss, I know the answer!’
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:44am
  - alwyn
    
    I don’t have Herald sub so I haven’t read this story.
    However the headline would seem to imply that the Super Fund has given up on the Hydrogen Magic Bean saga after blowing $112 million on the exercise.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nz-super-fund-books-112m-loss-exiting-fuel-cell-maker-bloom-energy/YEDLL46Z5Q3MHAGHI7XHYJZ3JM/
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:23am
- Inandout
  
  John Cadogan explained it better than I could:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu1v7d7-Wh0&list=RDCMUCKcC11ircL-HI7TieCr9XQg&start_radio=1
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:45am
- GazzaW
  
  Australia is sending its first commercial shipment of hydrogen to Japan in February. Scomo made that announcement on Friday.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:50am
- oob
  
  I’m considering implementing it, Maggy.
  
  Here’s the thing: during the summer the batteries are full by about 10 a.m. at our off-grid property, so our solar panels are not harvesting for the remainder of the day.
  
  So why not electrolysis for hydrogen production? It gives the panels something useful to do.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The cost of setting it up and storing hydrogen for months would be absolutely ruinous + danger and maintenance issues. Alternative idea: Sink a ground source heat exchanger in a bore hole and use a heat pump to heat up the ground deep under your property using the excess. Tap into it in winter for heating (biggest power draw).
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:41am
    - oob
      
      You’re right UNC, hazard, storage and maintenance are the huge constraints upon household-scale Hydrogen production.
      
      Using a ground source heat exchanger as a dump load is not the solution though, they don’t work like that.
      
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      November 24, 2020 3:23pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      If you live in the outback next to a river dump an Archimedes screw generator into the river anchored by two steel ropes. Some guy down south did it and was pulling 30Kw out of modest setup. And the principle is used allover the world.
      
      But in NZ you cannot set up your own because the Crown or Maoris own X number of metres beside each water way, and the Maoris own the rights to flowing water because Maui created flowing water when he fished NZ out of the sea. Just as they own the airwaves because they had wireless technology before white man.
      
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      November 24, 2020 4:32pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Great…
    Then you could get a compressor and fill up a few hydrogen cells and bike into town…
    https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/09/04/hydrogen-powered-bicycles-offer-new-electromobility-concept/
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:44am
    - Liberty
      
      The Government is pushing Pumped hydro . What a foolish proposal.
      You would have to be a supporter of perpetual motion.
      I suspect they had it designed by M C Escher.
      
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      November 24, 2020 3:36pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        To back Pumped Hydro, anyone would have to be a supporter of the idea where you get 35kw of energy back for every 100kw you put in. Mind you, that is consistent with every other project.
        
        We have an abundance of energy in every river and every water fall, but we don’t harness it.
        
        And wanting to pump water uphill at 33% efficiency, is nuts. I would like us to move to all new energy systems, but we have to get there first. So stopping oil and gas drilling, especially gas, makes the process that much harder.
        
        Pumped Hydro was a good idea back in a 1970’s Popular Mechanics magazine when there was a fuel crisis and there were limited options but it appears some people are stuck the past.
        
        You have to remember that the Pumped Storage idea came out of the USA, which depends on fossil fuels for 85% of power, and fuel was short.
        
        NZ however has ten of thousands of miles of flowing water, which we could harness. Ardern’s attitude could be compared to living in a fruit forest with vege gardens, rabbits and chickens everywhere, which we are not allowed to touch. Instead she wants us to eat recycled tofu.
        
        Any ten year old that has made sandcastles, rivers and dams at the beach or river bed could tell you the difficulty of Pumped Hydro, and efficiency losses through evaporation are huge.
        
        Evaporation is huge because the water in continually being evaporated into water vapour to form clouds. The water vapour from your tiny lake will evaporate into a much larger area and any rain that falls will fall over a much wider area.
        
        Pumped Hydro, like socialism, has been proven to fail time and time again.
        
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        November 24, 2020 4:58pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  So the cost of an all electric Tesla truck is about 1/3 that of a hydrogen fueled truck and more than twice as efficient to run per Kw of electricity. Electricity is easier to transport than hydrogen. I believe more thought needs to go into this venture before a lot more money (taxpayers) is spent on developing hydrogen generators.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:58am
- Master Mariner
  
  Real issue is storage and energy intensive to produce .
  Either ammonia or methanol as storage. Either way Im sure fire fighters and St Johns will be very reluctant to go to work.
  Transportation at sea is relatively safe however.
  So far it has been extensively researched by huge government grants.https://gcaptain.com/havyards-hydrogen-propulsion-system-could-be-ready-in-2021/
  also I believe we can produce it here for export via hydro dams and cheap electricity.
  https://gcaptain.com/norway-races-australia-to-fulfill-japans-hydrogen-society-eream/
  However to use locally will be a disaster in transportation.
  
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  November 24, 2020 11:44am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Global hydrogen production will be done in sunny tropics that can now make electricity for <$0.02/kWh using large scale PV. NZ wholesale electricity is 4x that cost so we will never be competitive.
    
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    November 24, 2020 12:59pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Thinking more along the lines of Manapouri and potential loss of Tiwai Aluminium smelter.
      PV too expensive on large scale needed.
      Hydro and untapped on our door step.
      Transported and exported via Bluff.
      Lots of untapped Hydro potential.
      Could be a Greens own goal so to speak.
      Look at Iceland ( Aluminimum) and “free Hydro” and Geothermal power.
      Both Aluminum and Hydrogen are massive power consumers (green hydrogen).
      As far as local transport its so far not economically viable by a long shot.
      Exporting Hydrogen well within our reach.
      Dam more rivers or build a Nuclear power station.
      Disagrre with your comment about sunny tropics totaly.
      
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      November 24, 2020 2:59pm
  - oob
    
    Ammonia production requires the Haber-Bosch process at industrial scale, does it not? The energy requirement is massive: heat to above 600 Celsius and (from memory) pressure to 50 atmospheres.
    
    Methanol is interesting. Household scale, we produce it at our off-grid property, but as a bi-product of producing 95% pure Ethanol via distillation in a refracting column still. Industrial scale pretty much means natural gas as a source, does it not?
    
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    November 24, 2020 2:38pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      If you have an off-grid property that is close to a decent stream or river you could get power.
      
      https://www.powerspout.com/
      
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      November 24, 2020 5:07pm
      - oob
        
        Great link JackRabbit: PowerPoint is superb Kiwi tech and a total success story we ought to be celebrating.
        
        It’s viable for us, as we hold riparian and other rights to a stream, but generation isn’t the issue as we’re already oversupplied by solar.
        
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        November 24, 2020 6:12pm
- Lance
  
  Hydrogen as a fuel sounds wonderful and along with hydrogen fusion reactors, will change our lives as we know it, be environmentally friendly and sustainable.
  The trouble is, both of these tech’s seem to be perpetually “30 years away”.
  I am deeply skeptical throwing a few million bucks at the problem in NZ will solve what billions of dollars has so far failed to achieve elsewhere in the world.
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:52pm
I remember when

Ricardo Menendez March:
Has apparently outraged social media by using the term “OK Boomers”.
One suspects that March is going to spend a lot of his time, or rather continue to spend a lot of his time, outraging people.
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November 24, 2020 8:05am
- artemisia
  
  Mr March gets loads of airtime. What’s not to like?
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:46am
  - sooty
    
    Stupid is, as stupid does.
    The greens deserve a phill twyford too!
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:16am
- graham
  
  Has apparently outraged social media by using the term “OK Boomers”.
  
  Really? Don’t people have anything better to get outraged about? It’s not even new … how long ago was it that Chloe Swarbrick used it?
  
  There are some people who mature early, and are capable of making worthwhile contributions to the wider community at an early age – and then there are some people who never grow up. Ever. And if they never grow up, then unfortunately really the only way to deal with them is as you would a petulant sulky teenager.
  
  Personally I find it easiest to ignore them.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:48am
- rockape
  
  I think he is enough of a dick headed troughers to drag the Greens down as they well deserve.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:51am
- MCos
  
  March is going to outrage people on the forum if it transpires he doesn’t eat Weet-Bix for breakfast.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:53am
- JibberJabber
  
  The beauty of Twitter, these low IQ unelected cretins get to show their true colours.
  
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  November 24, 2020 8:56am
  - BeaB
    
    No outrage from me just happy anticipation watching these up-themselves young whippersnappers patronise us as they themselves inch ever closer to old age.
    Prizing one’s own youthfulness is always futile.
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:46am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  His maiden speech could be a doozy… in the best ‘green’ traditions maybe
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:08am
  - Sacha
    
    The thought of all the new ‘maiden’ speeches is a bit daunting. I remember thinking that a young Winston Peters would go far when he made his maiden speech . . . . . . . .
    Maybe I won’t be listening to Parliament for a while.
    
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    November 24, 2020 12:13pm
- chukar
  
  RMM,
  Don’t worry about hydrogen when we are giving idiots oxygen!
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:08am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  I could live with the outcome of this election except for Ricardo bro getting in. That was the worst part for me.
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:27am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    I envisage plenty of OutRage! alright…
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:07am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The fact of another imported left wing foreign national being in our parliament lecturing the populace on our history and whiteness in pure woke is enough to trigger me . . .
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:44am
  - David George
    
    “Pure Woke” I believe the term is Wokish, as spoken by wet wokelets worldwide.
    James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose are working on an online wokish dictionary for our edification and amusement – and to help with translation into English of course.
    https://newdiscourses.com/translations-from-the-wokish/
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:29am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      We are transitioning from 100% Pure New Zealand to 100% Woke Gaytearoa
      
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      November 24, 2020 12:42pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Unfortunately, >5% of the country are utter morons who will actually like him.
  
  I also love the complete stupidity of the Greens to give this moron a massive conflict of interest straight off the bat.
  
  He is their immigration spokesperson at the same time he’s trying to subvert the rules to get his parents over here. What’s the likelihood that anything he does in his role will be with a view to that goal rather than acting on behalf of the people of NZ?
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:24am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    How do you know he is trying to get his family in??
    
    How will he support them if he is no longer an MP??
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:54am
    - artemisia
      
      He has said publicly that his income was insufficient to meet immigration criteria to bring his parents in to New Zealand.
      
      Income will be fine now he is an MP.
      
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      November 24, 2020 12:08pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Ricardo will end up getting heaps of airtime compared to other Greens / politicians. He is their new Gloriz. And as I’ve said before, he makes Marama look like a far right winger. He will be controversial and upset lots of people and Shaw will end up making excuses for him.
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:33am
- rouppe
  
  That’s just his modus operandi so that he can then complain how racist we all are
  
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  November 24, 2020 12:02pm
I remember when

‘NZ’s hydrogen production fairy tale.’
Now if only we could do the same thing with Green House Gases and CO2, in particular.
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November 24, 2020 8:08am
I remember when

Labour’s sustainability and carbon neutrality plan as Baldrick said will be as ‘cunning as a we shall’.
Or will it just be more hot air and the overused ‘you shall’.
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November 24, 2020 8:16am
rockape

So a bi product is water vapour! Isn’t that a greenhouse gas?
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November 24, 2020 8:18am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Shhhhhhhhh!
  You are not meant to mention inconvenient facts…
  
  The IPCC has seen fit to ignore the most abundant greenhouse gas in our atmosphere and so should we.
  
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  November 24, 2020 11:50am
Surely Knott

CNN circa 2008, “Sen. Barack Obama used the rule book to win first race for Illinois state Senate
Democrat challenged opponents’ petitions and forced them off the ballot” “But back at the time he was running for state Senate, Askia said, he was dismayed Obama would use such tactics.

“It wasn’t honorable,” he said. “I wouldn’t have done it.”

He said the Obama team challenged every single one of his petitions on “technicalities.”

If names were printed instead of signed in cursive writing, they were declared invalid. If signatures were good but the person gathering the signatures wasn’t properly registered, those petitions also were thrown out.”

“Obama is not the only politician to resort to petition challenges to eliminate the competition.
“He came from Chicago politics,” Stewart said. “Politics ain’t beanbag, as they say in Chicago. You play with your elbows up, and you’re pretty tough and ruthless when you have to be. Sen. Obama felt that’s what was necessary at the time, that’s what he did. Does it fit in with the rhetoric now? Perhaps not.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/
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November 24, 2020 8:22am
- Phronesis
  
  People think the vitriol spewed at Trump has something to do with Trump, when it wouldn’t really have mattered who the president was. As long as he was a Republican he would be the enemy. Trump says plenty of stupid things but they still make up stuff that he supposedly said, they would do the same to any Republican president.
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:19am
  - Inandout
    
    Ph, you are correct. Take any Republican since JFK’s time and they have been pilloried by the MSM. Reagan was a master communicator and loved by millions but the media tried to destroy him by honing in on his last term beginnings of dementia. Biden gets a free run on his dementia though.
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:15am
  - dcrane
    
    Similarly, on the other side, we now know that a lot of the fury aimed at Bush’s Iraq war wasn’t so much about the war, but the “Bush” part. The Democrats now repeatedly defend Bush’s wars against any hint of withdrawal by Trump.
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:02am
  - David George
    
    You have to be pretty tough to be a conservative or right wing politician with all the vitriol that is heaped on you. Trump managed to cope with the most intensive and extensive campaign of hate I’ve ever seen or can imagine. Mueller couldn’t take it and had some sort of a breakdown as a consequence. Boris has bottled but Judith seems to be handling it OK and with characteristic good humour.
    She’s a hard road being right these days.
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:38am
    - Sacha
      
      “She’s a hard road being right these days.”
      I wonder how long it will be before some Young Thing of the Left demands that we start driving on the Left – again.
      
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      November 24, 2020 12:18pm
  - Paulus
    
    Similar to being National Party here – condemned before you start.
    Ask Tova – and she is not alone among the Press Gallery particularly.
    
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    November 24, 2020 1:57pm
- Fletch
  
  Obama got rid of his opponents using every dirty trick in the book. His “signature move” was unsealing the private records of his opponents to publicly smear them.
  
  One month before the 2004 Democratic primary for the U.S. Senate, Obama was down in the polls, about to lose to Blair Hull, a multimillionaire securities trader. But then the Chicago Tribune leaked the claim that Hull’s second ex-wife, Brenda Sexton, had sought an order of protection against him during their 1998 divorce proceedings.
  
  Those records were under seal, but as The New York Times noted: “The Tribune reporter who wrote the original piece later acknowledged in print that the Obama camp had ‘worked aggressively behind the scenes’ to push the story.” Many people said Axelrod had “an even more significant role — that he leaked the initial story.”
  
  Both Hull and his ex-wife opposed releasing their sealed divorce records, but they finally relented in response to the media’s hysteria — 18 days before the primary. Hull was forced to spend four minutes of a debate detailing the abuse allegation in his divorce papers, explaining that his ex-wife “kicked me in the leg and I hit her shin to try to get her to not continue to kick me.”
  
  As luck would have it, Obama’s opponent in the general election had also been divorced! Jack Ryan was tall, handsome, Catholic — and shared a name with one of Harrison Ford’s most popular onscreen characters! He went to Dartmouth, Harvard Law and Harvard Business School, made hundreds of millions of dollars as a partner at Goldman Sachs, and then, in his early 40s, left investment banking to teach at an inner city school on the South Side of Chicago.
  
  Ryan would have walloped Obama in the Senate race. But at the request of — again — the Chicago Tribune, California Judge Robert Schnider unsealed the custody papers in Ryan’s divorce five years earlier from Hollywood starlet Jeri Lynn Ryan, the bombshell Borg on “Star Trek: Voyager.”
  
  Jack Ryan had released his tax records. He had released his divorce records. But both he and his ex-wife sought to keep the custody records under seal to protect their son.
  
  Amid the 400 pages of filings from the custody case, Jack Ryan claimed that his wife had had an affair, and she counterclaimed with the allegation that he had taken her to “sex clubs” in Paris, New York and New Orleans, which drove her to fall in love with another man.
  
  And that’s how Obama became a U.S. senator. He destroyed both his Democratic primary opponent and his Republican general election opponent with salacious allegations about their personal lives taken from “sealed” court records.
  
  Obama’s team delved into Sarah Palin’s marriage and spread rumors of John McCain’s alleged affair in 2008 and they smeared Herman Cain in 2011 with hazy sexual harassment allegations all emanating from David Axelrod’s pals in Chicago.
  
  It’s almost like a serial killer’s signature. Unsealed personal records have been released to the press. Obama must be running for office!
  
  https://humanevents.com/2012/08/01/ann-coulter-obamas-signature-move-unsealing-private-records/
  
  etc etc
  
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  November 24, 2020 11:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Well, imagine that – a politician’s personal peccadillos having an impact on politics.
    
    5 8
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    November 24, 2020 12:44pm
    - Fletch
      
      Again – sealed records. But Obama and his team go all out to get them leaked etc. Just imagine if that had been done to Obama, whose personal records are still all sealed.
      
      11 5
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      November 24, 2020 1:16pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        What dark secrets do you imagine are ‘sealed’ in Obama’s personal record?
        
        5 5
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        November 24, 2020 1:34pm
      - Fletch
        
        Whatever he considers worth hiding?
        
        5 2
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        November 24, 2020 4:33pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Pallet loads of cash Mike – and not in US currency
        
        4 2
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        November 24, 2020 5:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Here’s your chance – what evil deeds do you think lurk in Obama’s past?
        
        2 3
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        November 24, 2020 6:43pm
Happychappy

So are these promises like Kiwibuild that David Parker and Jacinda Ardern are pushing to save our economy or will they be like all the projects before them and be just another of Labours top echelons failures.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/three-new-infrastructure-projects-fast-tracked-government
Just because you bypass the Resource Management Act doesn’t mean it will be successful.
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November 24, 2020 8:42am
- alex Masterley
  
  I would hardly call redeveloping a tired commercial building into a supermarket/office and apartment building on Dominion Road infrastructure.
  The government is setting a really low aspirational bar.
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:43am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    ‘The government is setting a really low aspirational bar’
    
    I just love the surprise in your comment, almost like you were expecting something else . . .
    
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    November 24, 2020 9:47am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Under Labour ‘the fail’ is the new success! eg. oh well, at least we tried building new houses (unlike the other lot – Nats). It’s like receiving a well done participation award for coming 10th out of 10 people in the 100 metre sprint race.
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:40am
  - Paulus
    
    I know where permission is given to build over 400 houses in Auckland and the builder is ready to start.
    It is called Ihumatao – near the Airport, remember.
    
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    November 24, 2020 2:01pm
    - Scooter
      
      What’s the bet Jacinda will announce the Ihumatao outcome right before they break for Xmas?
      
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      November 24, 2020 9:38pm
Loddenthinks

Re the Shelly Bay occupation, this poor young white liberal misguided idealistic idiot had the following to say, when he went there “to support “the important voices in the conversation” and because he cared about the land.”

“We do not need this type of high-value accommodation, where a small amount of people will be able to live in luxury apartments,” he said.

“I’m not saying this area should be turned into emergency accommodation, but it should be used for supporting life, the type of life we need in this area and not what Ian Cassels has planned.”

Let me break all this down for you, son,

First of all, it’s neither your job nor your business to determine what “we need” with regard to accommodation of any type. Private land owners can do with it what they like, subject to resource consent of course, which they have or will pay for, like everyone else.

Secondly, let’s have a look at your second pearl of wisdom.

“I’m not saying this area should be turned into emergency accommodation..” Why not? Why do you not care about people needing emergency accommodation? Do you only care about Maori, who are clearly not homeless and just as clearly well-fed?

“but it should be used for supporting life,” – the last time I checked Peter, allowing people to buy apartments and houses to live in is one of the key ways of supporting life. Also the development is going to build or protect a penguin colony, so you know, life.

“the type of life we need in this area” – again, Peter, you’re not the Sheriff of deciding what type of life an area “needs”, let alone an area that is privately owned and none of your damn business.

“and not what Ian Cassels has planned.” – at risk of repeating myself, a private land-owner and property developer can decide all by himself what he wants to plan and build. None. Of. Your. Business.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/431290/shelly-bay-occupation-we-re-here-for-the-next-generation
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November 24, 2020 8:51am
- surfing
  
  Private land owners can do with it what they like, subject to resource consent of course, which they have or will pay for, like everyone else.
  
  Problem with this, is that councils issue non-notified consents when they shouldn’t be issued at all.
  
  Our council system is completely broken, we have council employees ruining the lives of private citizens. Then, when you call them, they use the excuse that the consent couldn’t annoy any neighbour.
  
  My neigbour applied for consent to put 12 caravans on his property in a high density suburb, and they gave it to him, non-notified of course.
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:21am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  A house is a house. If low/middle income people can’t afford Shelly Bay, maybe they can afford the places the Shelly Bay people have moved out of, or are now not bidding on.
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:48pm
redeye

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300162292/nz-first-foundation-case-accuseds-lawyer-says-therell-be-a-trial-by-media-if-named

They have used expert witness Cameron Slater to argue for continued name suppression.
Really? They have no sense of irony at all.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/featured/10-05-2016/cameron-slater-fearless-crusader-against-name-suppression-just-had-his-name-suppression-lifted/
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November 24, 2020 9:04am
Clyde

If you really want an excuse to choke on the coffee, read the Espiner “investigation” into the deeds of a woman called Mihi Bassett. This woman caused $20k damage to the prison, has a record as long as your arm and by all accounts is a nasty piece of work. But once again, RNZ raises colonisation and systemic racism (listen to the Moaning Report interview broadcast shortly after 7am, to offer excuses. I pity the Corrections staff who have to deal with wastes of space, but instead we have the useless Kelvin Davis, saying he is “disturbed” at the Espiner diatribe.
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November 24, 2020 9:05am
hullkiwi

Be warned Jacinda’s virtue signalling police are everywhere.

First there was the propaganda and disinformation, now there is “you’re not being a good citizen unless you follow the preaching of Ashley”.

This is a true story from yesterday.

Mrs HK and juniorHKgo to Countdown in Warkworth. JuniorHK (using MrsHK’s phone) scans the Covid QR code as they enter the building from the carpark. They duly travel up escalator to street store entrance. Before entering store at turnstiles is another QR code for those entering store from the street. At this second WR code is a woman approx 60+ fluffing about making a performance about scan ing the code.

As MrsHK and Junior walk by comes the comment “it is sad to see that not all people heed the call to scan in”. MrsHK ignored at first, and a similar comment came a second time. To which MrsHK looked around, and realised the statement was directed at her. So, MrsHK made the following comments:
1. Did you see me come into the store? Answer no
2. Did you see whether we scanned in downstairs? Answer, no; and
3. What business is it of yours’ as to whether I scan in or not?
At which point, Mrs HK and Junior walk on.

Mrs HK statement later was, “she was b****y lucky I didn’t first her smug smiling face.”

All I can say, is thank you Jacinda for your Nazi style propaganda and for turning NZ into 1984 style state in which we are all citizens and we must submit to group think!
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November 24, 2020 9:20am
- hullkiwi
  
  Should have read “fist her smug smiling face”
  
  I don’t know which is worse, predictive text or “virtue signalling idiots”?
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:52am
- Inandout
  
  Hull, I see very few QIs being used now, but some poke their phone at the sign and walk on.
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:23am
  - sooty
    
    Just aswell I don’t scan!
    Someone would get an ear full!
    Have you seen the speed some of them take to scan. First they stop and open purse, open phone find the app, scan and click, then close the phone and put it away, close purse and move away!
    They are the bloody same at the atm and bank!
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:27am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I poke my middle finger.
    
    Remind me how many community transmitted cases of Covid19 has there been in the last week? The last month?
    
    FUA.
    
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    November 24, 2020 1:32pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      We concur.
      
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      November 24, 2020 5:26pm
- artemisia
  
  MrsHK missed the opportunity to say ‘thanks so much for your concern Karen’.
  
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  November 24, 2020 12:02pm
graham

Watching the news last night, I found myself perplexed and confused.

There was an item about Oranga Tamariki, and the uplift of babies. Now, putting aside the rights and wrongs of that particular policy, what left me confused was this:

The item spoke about the desire to do what was best for Maori children, ensuring they are safe and well cared for. Oranga Tamariki, according to a statement on their website, have a commitment to working alongside Maori to support their children. The Office of the Children’s Commissioner has recommended that the Prime Minister and Cabinet commit to transferring power and resources from Government to Maori to enable a Maori-led approach.

And I thought to myself, “what about non-Maori children”?

Because I thought Oranga Tamariki was supposed to be set up to support ANY child in New Zealand whose wellbeing was at risk.

Obviously I was wrong. Even on their website, under the “About Us – Vision and values” page, their beginning refers to a couple of reports (one in 1988 and one in 2015) which called:

for a commitment to deliver on our obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi and to create outcomes that all New Zealand children deserved, while reducing the disparities experienced by tamariki Māori.

So I guess I am belatedly beginning to realise that everything about Oranga Tamariki is PRIMARILY geared towards Maori. With maybe the occasional brief nod towards other New Zealanders.

At least I now understand this, I guess.
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November 24, 2020 9:36am
- Batman
  
  Something like 70-80 of the cases are Maori families.
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:44am
  - graham
    
    I presume you mean 70-80% of the cases are Maori families. And yes, I get that. But as I said above, Oranga Tamariki is supposedly there for ANY AND ALL children in New Zealand who need them.
    
    But when was the last time you saw or heard anything about Oranga Tamariki that wasn’t talking about Maori?
    
    As alloytoo says below, essentially it is a tacit admission that the problem is primarily with the Maori community – but woe betide anybody who dares to say that out loud.
    
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    November 24, 2020 10:31am
    - Batman
      
      Yes sorry, I did mean 70-80%
      
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      November 24, 2020 12:27pm
- alloytoo
  
  They are trying desperately to avoid saying that the problem is primarily with the Maori community.
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:02am
  - sooty
    
    What about the other 20/30%.
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:30am
    - oldfella
      
      Sooty, the non-Maori kids will probably get their their own organisation.
      Call it ‘White Tamariki’.
      
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      November 24, 2020 12:17pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    …….But, but Beacroft told us, it is a problem of colonisation and Maori subjugation that will be solved by a by Maori/for Maori solution.
    
    Or put it another way:
    1. Give all Maori Children to their hapu or iwi;
    2. Give all money to Maori ;
    3. Remove all accountability and responsibility;
    4. Stand back and watch Maori continue to neglect and kill their children; and
    5. Blame the police for institutional racism for not doing anything while Maori neglect and kill their children.
    
    17 1
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    November 24, 2020 12:26pm
- rouppe
  
  Children’s commissioner says Maori children should be cared for by wider whanau.
  
  They tried that already. Put the child in with the grandparents. However the abuse by the parents was because the parents were abused as children by the grandparents. So the child went from being abused by their parents to being abused by the grandparents, sometimes worse out of resentment of being lumbered with the extra costs of having a child again.
  
  This policy is going to end in tragedy
  
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  November 24, 2020 12:15pm
  - Paulus
    
    It already is a tragedy – will it end by all these social shenanigans – NO !
    
    9 1
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    November 24, 2020 2:07pm
- hilaryt
  
  And nobody EVER speaks of the elephant in this particular room…that if parents parented properly then the ambo at the bottom of this dreadful cliff is redundant. SO many excuses, so much hand-wringing, so little change…how many decades since the advent of the pill???
  
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  November 24, 2020 4:02pm
Swifty

The Helen Clark Foundation, through IER, calls for large increases to the minimum wage:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300165450/big-minimum-wage-boost-would-give-nz-economy-chance-to-reset-helen-clark-foundation

Full report here:

https://nzier.org.nz/static/media/filer_public/ed/2a/ed2a5f0d-bc77-4750-a75c-ecd839c9f0d6/38380_hcfnzier_young_people_inclusive_growth_report_231120.pdf

Several points:

1. It says that dramatically raising the cost of labour this way will make firms more productive. How? The report does not say, other than glib generalities.
2. If this is such a wonderful thing to do – then why are firms not doing this already? It does not say.
3. What are the negative effects/downsides of raising the minimum wage so dramatically? It says that there may be some jobs foregone but this doesn’t matter as Covid has caused job losses already so a few more won’t hurt. It also says some companies will collapse but that new firms will magically emerge to replace them. How? The report does not say.
4. Is it the role of political parties (as governments) to use the coercive powers of the state to dictate the commercial terms between two private parties – or is this government over-reach?
5. What will be the consequential effect of this wage rate increase in terms of rising prices for food, accommodation, clothing, transport etc etc. The report does not say.

A final point, a weak one I know, but I’d like to make it nonetheless – what is the make-up of the executives of the Helen Clark Foundation and IER report author?

https://helenclark.foundation/our-foundation/our-executive-director/

https://helenclark.foundation/our-foundation/our-people/

https://nzier.org.nz/people/todd-krieble/

Career civil servants. I wonder how many businesses they’ve started from scratch?
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November 24, 2020 9:36am
- Yabster
  
  It doesn’t apply as the article is referring to a country called Aotearoa New Zealand…
  
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  November 24, 2020 9:54am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  ‘I wonder how many businesses they’ve started from scratch?’
  
  Starting businesses is not their job. They specialise in wrecking businesses. Get with the programme.
  
  18 2
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  November 24, 2020 10:15am
- BananaLlama
  
  These are the same mongs that cry about the cost of living going through the roof. Producers are the ones who need a shot in the arm, not consumers.
  What ever, why do i even bother though? i should stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and just take the money and run.
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:35pm
mikenmildagain

Happy Evolution Day!
9 13
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November 24, 2020 9:38am
- Inandout
  
  m&m, what has Joe turned into today?
  
  6 6
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  November 24, 2020 10:26am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Stalin has been dead for a long time.
    
    5 5
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    November 24, 2020 10:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I give you an uptick for that Mike. It was clever
      
      2 1
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      November 24, 2020 5:58pm
lastmanstanding

Whilst the standard of governance in NZ is appalling IMHO Australia takes it to a new low level.

Two Cases.

1. Victoria. Over 700 people died of Covid because of escapes from hotel quarantine. The Police Commission was recorded saying he wont have any part of security arrangements so the officials hired a Sydney based security firm bypassing their own process to only hire local accredited firms. this firm then recruited locals via Whatsapp gave them a uniform no training.
The Premier Dan Andrews other pollies and officials have breached the new introduced Health & Safety laws forced in by the Unions to catch big business.
The problem is the guy in charge of the H&S Department is a long time mate of Andrews so its going to be a ‘nothing to see here move on”

2. The Alleged and I use the word carefully war crimes committed by SAS soldiers in Afghanistan.
The Prime Minister and Chief of Defence have referred to them as ‘shocking truths”. This before any charges have been laid and anyone bought to Court. If the Court follows due legal process it will dismiss any charges for the following reasons;

The PM and CoD have prejudged the matter and the publicity means any accused cannot receive a fair trial.
The Government breached its H&S laws through the number of rotations and the lack of H&S services provided between rotations and after final return home.
The number of suicides of former SAS Soldiers is evidence of the lack of services.
The Yamashita Standard means the most senior commanding officer of a person charged with war crimes must also be charged no matter that did not know of the action and took no part in the action.

Sadly I suspect the Courts will side with the Government and make scape goats of junior soldiers and thereby raise the risk to Australia of retaliation. The Taleban have already said this will happen. Stand by for terror attacks in Australia.
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November 24, 2020 9:43am
Swifty

Johnny Cash and June Carter-Cash in San Quentin, 1969:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoTrznfUVuI
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November 24, 2020 10:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I give you an uptick for that Mike. It was clever
  
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  November 24, 2020 6:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Here we go again. I replied to Mike and this shit comes up on my replay to Swifty.
    FUCK!!!
    
    2 1
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    November 24, 2020 6:50pm
C J Southern

US Election Reality Check

Suits filed: 42
Proceedings concluded: 30
States gained due to legal action: 0
Votes gained due to legal action: 0
Cases of election fraud proven: 0

Transition to Biden countdown: 57D 19H 36M

Status: The countdown is proceeding normally. All lights are green. All systems are go
#ReportEnds
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November 24, 2020 10:24am
- Inandout
  
  CJ, if the Dems were genuine about the US voting system they would be happy to join an inquiry into how it needs to get rid of those postal and computer votes. Booth voting by filling out a paper form has been proved to be the most honest and of course the original way.
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:31am
  - MCos
    
    You do know why postal voting was so popular don’t you?
    The people who had no qualms about catching the bug tended to vote in person, but those who were more cautious used the postal system and who can blame them.
    
    7 6
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    November 24, 2020 12:11pm
    - Batman
      
      And postal had been shown to be more secure than other methods of voting.
      
      Perhaps it is just that inandout, and others, don’t like the idea of everyone having a good opportunity to vote?
      
      7 11
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      November 24, 2020 12:32pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Bingo.
        
        5 7
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        November 24, 2020 12:38pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Poppycock
    
    6 6
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    November 24, 2020 12:37pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Who is ‘poppy?’
      Asking for lots of friends
      
      2 1
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      November 24, 2020 6:54pm
  - curry4me
    
    Inandout: If…
    
    4 3
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    November 24, 2020 1:10pm
- SB2
  
  Let the 20th roll on with Trump pouting and whimpering sharing the Janitor’s apartment Trump Towers. ( in liquidation )
  
  6 25
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  November 24, 2020 10:31am
  - Inandout
    
    SB, spoken like a true leftie. The gentleman to whom you refer could buy and sell you a billion times over.
    
    12 7
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    November 24, 2020 12:02pm
    - Batman
      
      He’s certainly not a gentleman, and given his current fundraising efforts, he is very concerned about his ongoing financial position with his debtors.
      
      7 15
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      November 24, 2020 12:33pm
    - MCos
      
      I knew a bloke who could buy and sell me several times over, not a billion.
      He had to move to Oz to avoid the IRD who wanted to know why he wasn’t pulling his weight in society.
      
      4 3
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      November 24, 2020 1:53pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    He has been President if the USA, quite an achievement. What have you ever been, SB2?
    
    14 7
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    November 24, 2020 12:23pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Apparently SB2 has the co-honour of being grounded in reality; something Trump and his deluded followers will never know.
      
      7 13
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      November 24, 2020 12:40pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      And you, of course, would never stoop to criticise anyone achieved more than you…
      
      4 10
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      November 24, 2020 12:41pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Cock thinks he is ‘president’ of trolls on KB. He is correct
      
      2 1
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      November 24, 2020 6:56pm
    - Couchpotatoe
      
      Was he really President of the US of A?
      
      or Commander in Cheat of tax, constitutional and electoral law
      
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      November 24, 2020 9:51pm
- dcrane
  
  Plus bizarre infighting between Powell and the rest of the Trump team. I had wondered if Giuliani looked just a bit uncomfortable handing the podium to Sidney in that hair dye press conference. Now I have to think she has her own agenda or is really easily confused by numbers.
  
  I still think that the best sounding arguments for challenging any state results have to do with variable and/or inappropriate standards for acceptance of (and “curing”) mail in ballots.
  
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  November 24, 2020 10:59am
- C J Southern
  
  Just to give a “frame of reference” for the mood, here’s some of the outcomes; there are many more just like these. I’ll bold bits for those who want to speed-read.
  
  – On November 7, the plaintiffs voluntarily dismissed the suit.
  
  – On November 19, 2020, the lawsuit was dismissed with prejudice and the Republican Party’s request for an injunction against Maricopa County denied. In his ruling, Judge John Hannah invited the Secretary of State’s Office to seek payment for attorney’s fees from the Arizona Republican Party, citing a state law that allows for such awards when a party brings a claim “without substantial justification” or “solely or primarily for delay or harassment.”
  
  – During the hearing, the lawyer for the Trump campaign, Kory Langhofer, stated that the plaintiffs were “not alleging fraud” or “that anyone is stealing the election”, but were disputing “good faith errors.” On November 13, the lawsuit regarding presidential ballots was dropped, after it became evident that the number of votes potentially to be contested (191) would not overcome Biden’s margin of victory in the state.
  
  – The lawsuit, regarding 53 ballots, was filed by the Trump campaign and the Georgia Republican Party on November 4 in the Chatham County Superior Court of the Eastern Judicial Circuit of Georgia. The campaign claimed that two witnesses had seen late ballots being improperly mixed with on-time ballots. Superior Court Judge James F. Bass Jr. denied the request and dismissed the suit on November 5, after hearing testimony from the chairman of the Chatham County Board of Registrars. The judge ruled that no evidence had been produced that the ballots were late.
  
  – On November 11, 2020, four voters in Georgia sued Thomas Mahoney, Chairman of the Chatham County Board of Elections, in federal district court. The voters claimed a software glitch caused a miscounting of votes, and asked the court to stop certain counties from certifying their presidential election results. On November 16, the plaintiffs voluntarily dismissed the case.
  
  – On November 19, Judge Steven Grimberg ruled that Wood lacked standing to bring the case, had brought it too late, and “didn’t have the ability to show he could bring a case.” The Trump-appointed judge also found “no basis in fact or in law” to stop Georgia’s certification of its election results (in which Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump) at such a late stage, as this would “breed confusion and potential disenfranchisement”.
  
  – Chief Judge Timothy Kenny denied the motion for injunctive relief on November 6, finding that the plaintiffs did “not offer any affidavits or specific eyewitness evidence to substantiate their assertions … Plaintiffs’ allegation is mere speculation. Plaintiffs’ pleadings do not set forth a cause of action.” The judge noted that “sinister, fraudulent motives” were alleged, but that the “plaintiffs’ interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible”
  
  – When the judge asked Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, on why the plaintiffs did not advance legal claims based on voter fraud, Giuliani replied that “this is not a fraud case”. Giuliani had previously made public claims of “fraud”, “absolute fraud” in the election. Fellow Trump lawyer Linda Kerns also agreed that this lawsuit was not based on “allegations of fraud or misconduct”. Judge Matthew W. Brann dismissed the case with prejudice on November 21, citing “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations,” noting that “in the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state … our people, laws, and institutions demand more”. He likened the Trump team argument to “Frankenstein’s Monster”, and characterized the requested remedy to disqualify nearly seven million votes as “unhinged.”
  
  – Donald J. Trump for President Inc. v. Bucks County Board of Elections is a lawsuit filed in the state’s trial court on November 9. The lawyers for the Trump campaign have signed an agreement that they “do not allege, and there is no evidence of, any fraud in connection with the challenged ballots”. They also declared that they were not alleging votes from dead people, “misconduct”, or “impropriety” related to those ballots, and had no evidence of such happenings.
  
  – During the hearing, the judge asked the lawyer for the Trump campaign, Jonathan Goldstein, if Goldstein was “claiming that there is any fraud” or “any undue or improper influence upon the elector with respect to these 592 ballots”. Goldstein replied no. This contradicted Trump’s claim of widespread voter fraud.
  
  Staggering abuse of the law by Trump.
  
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  November 24, 2020 11:10am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Doesn’t matter. The dupes will believe anything Trump tells them. His moron supporters on Kiwiblog are probably sending donations to ~~fund the grifter~~ continue the battle.
    
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    November 24, 2020 11:24am
    - Nukuleka
      
      Gosh I am tired of these abusive posts. To this KB has come. Sadly.
      
      18 7
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      November 24, 2020 12:25pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        If it saves Mikey from self-harm that’s the price we have to pay.
        
        9 5
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        November 24, 2020 12:36pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’d take that more seriously if you objected to abusive posts from those whose opinions you agree with.
        
        7 12
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        November 24, 2020 12:40pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Bit rich coming from you considering you abused SB2 in this same thread.
        
        The true sadness for KB IMO is that it’s rapidly trending from a center-right lounge where many enjoy taking pot-shots at our incompetent government to one that’s not much above conspiracy delusion status (can’t even call it a conspiracy theory) due to the constant Trump drivel posted by Trumpets.
        
        You may want to check the mirror to get a look at one of those responsible.
        
        11 13
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        November 24, 2020 12:47pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        @CJ Southern complaining about “the downfall of KB …… due to the constant Trump drivel posted by Trumpets.”
        And yet the person who started the thread is an anti Trump post made by CJ himself! It’s entitled Daily US Election update where we get an anti Trump countdown post updated every day. All good. But you can hardly complain that the problem with KB is others posting Trump drivel.
        
        7 4
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        November 24, 2020 3:07pm
      - herb1
        
        it dosent help when one of the moderators is one of the culprits
        
        8 3
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        November 24, 2020 3:43pm
      - Batman
        
        I approved your comment despite disagreeing with you.
        
        And yes I do get into spirited debate about US stuff, because at the end of the day facts are important and over time I know that the nonsense theories posted here by some will fizzle out as they’re proven wrong or continue to be unproven.
        
        Contesting those theories ensures that the KB comments section doesn’t slide right down the slope into Parler or chan territory.
        
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        November 24, 2020 4:41pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @Surely Knott
        
        “And yet the person who started the thread is an anti Trump post made by CJ himself! It’s entitled Daily US Election update where we get an anti Trump countdown post updated every day.”
        
        Good news – I can see exactly where you went wrong (it was rather obvious). I didn’t post an “anti Trump countdown” – I posted accurate hard data. I posted something that’s based on reality. It’s not opinion – it’s verifiable fact.
        
        “But you can hardly complain that the problem with KB is others posting Trump drivel.”
        
        I sure can when the drivel is based on blatent nonsense. The Trumpets need a serious reality check; if there had been “widespread fraud” then by now there would have been at least some credible evidence to document some of it – and yet has ANY been presented to the courts? Nope. ZERO – ZILCH – ZIP – NADA – NOTHING!
        
        Everyday it’s the same old crap; Trump spouts some crap without any evidence – the gullible lemmings believe it – the courts reject it – and in your advanced state of denial you still try to blame me for pointing it out the delusion.
        
        As I’ve said for over 2 weeks now; it’s over – Trump lost – there was no significant fraud. For better of worse the people have spoken. The Trumpets can take it in good grace or you can continue to spout baseless delusion theories that get the site a bad rep – but it doesn’t change reality.
        
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        November 24, 2020 4:44pm
  - Paulus
    
    I understand that in the US Judges are made by Appointment (nearly all politically voted) which means that if an Judge had sided with Trump they would be deselected shortly.
    
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    November 24, 2020 2:14pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Or you know – maybe just maybe – they have some integrity and follow the law by requiring evidence before ruling?
      
      Bit much for some to comprehend I know …
      
      3 6
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      November 24, 2020 4:47pm
    - SGA
      
      I understand that in the US Judges are made by Appointment (nearly all politically voted) which means that if an Judge had sided with Trump they would be deselected shortly.
      
      No. Certainly not at the Federal level (e.g., Brann). Once appointed it is, in effect, until they retire or die. On rare occasions they are impeached for bad behaviour.
      
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      November 24, 2020 7:27pm
- Fletch
  
  Continuing witness statements. Today Articia Bomer, who was a candidate for US Congress with the US Taxpayers Party. She is a Detroit resident, and she was present at the TCF Center on Nov. 3rd and 4th when the votes from Wayne County were tabulated. She witnessed –
  
  * Hearing an announcement of 50 boxes at 4am: the Biden Ballot Dump!
  * Hearing that the Biden Ballot Dump was counted and processed in an impossibly short amount of time
  * Witnessing officials TAMPERING with tabulators at the TCF Center!
  * Ballot harvesting operations being done by a local Church
  * Poll workers overriding the actual votes, and changing Trump votes to BIDEN!
  * Poll workers REFUSING TO COUNT Trump votes!
  * Poll workers bringing in luggage and boxes that could have contained illegal ballots
  * Poll Workers using deceitful tactics and colluding with Democrats to try and EXPEL GOP Poll Challengers
  * GOP Poll Challengers being EJECTED from observing the vote count
  * GOP Poll Challengers were observing ILLEGAL BALLOTS and their objections were IGNORED
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGpIuNh_dU&feature=emb_title
  
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  November 24, 2020 11:27am
  - Batman
    
    She should present her ‘evidence’ to a court and see what happens then.
    
    Until then, it’s the rantings of a failed fringe party candidate. Until then, she’s the Billy TK of the USA ?
    
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    November 24, 2020 12:40pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Yawn.
    
    Another batch of allegations without credible evidence.
    
    The courts are absolutely unequivocal about crap like that; finding it uncredible; per my post above, none of these lawyers have the balls to repeat any of the fraud claims in court – some are signing statements to certify that they’re not accusing anyone of fraud (to over their asses) – and even one case where the judge gave a thumbs up to Trumps lot footing the bill for the defense given how frivolous it was.
    
    Time to wake up and smell the roses; your calvary isn’t coming.
    
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    November 24, 2020 12:54pm
Swifty

An interesting look back at Kenneth Williams and Jimmy Reid on Parkinson, 1973:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylTnvLl4aIk

Jimmy Reid (1932 – 2020) was a Scottish trade unionists, veteran member of UK and Scottish Communist Parties, national political aspirant and local councillor.

I thought he spoke well and passionately at times in the debate and asked some good questions – but, I’m afraid, when it came to answers to those questions his contribution falls away to nothingness.

“Creating a classless society”. How? He doesn’t say. At what cost? He doesn’t say. At the expense of what freedoms? He doesn’t say.

“Centrally apportioning wages based on some subjective assessment of a job’s ‘worth’ to society” (my words). How? Again he doesn’t say. Who would decide this ‘worth’? He doesn’t say. How would the assessment be performed? No answers. Where has this ever been successfully been done before? No answers. Who would we trust to perform this assessment? No answers. Any downsides? No answers.
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November 24, 2020 10:38am
- Swifty
  
  *2010
  
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  November 24, 2020 4:25pm
surfing

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/123475296/relocatable-building-casts-shadow-over-84yearold-mans-final-months

Another example of councils abusing non notified consents.

The council will say the guy can always go to the environment court. If only the neighbour had ratepayers to pay 100k to do that.
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November 24, 2020 10:54am
- Batman
  
  Isn’t this simple property rights?
  
  I’m sorry he’s got no case here. He is hardly bring shut in by an apartment building!
  
  5 8
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  November 24, 2020 12:42pm
  - surfing
    
    Your comment indicates you have absolutely no idea about zoning laws or the resource management act.
    
    Where do you live? I may like to buy the neighbours land and start up a piggery .
    
    6 5
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    November 24, 2020 12:57pm
Fletch

CNN PANICS as Vote Certification in PA and MI in DOUBT

Both the courts and the legislatures in MI and PA are signaling that they may indeed refuse to certify their results, and why a number of experts are predicting that Trump may indeed successfully bring this election into the House of Representatives, all but guaranteeing his reelection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNNdCjowblg&feature=emb_title
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November 24, 2020 11:31am
- Batman
  
  Michigan has been certified.
  
  Pack up and go home kids. Tantrum over.
  
  6 12
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  November 24, 2020 12:42pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I have copied all of your TDS comments (maybe not coz so many) Batman.
    Nice tantrum at 12.42pm.
    Know any fat ladies?
    
    3 2
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    November 24, 2020 7:00pm
    - SGA
      
      Oh dear, poor Batman.
      
      1 1
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      November 24, 2020 7:28pm
- C J Southern
  
  Game over. You lost. Better luck next time.
  
  3 5
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  November 24, 2020 4:51pm
gorse

Stuff’s cartoon today – they continue to put the boot into National. It’s just non stop.
14 2
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November 24, 2020 12:07pm
- curry4me
  
  gorse: Did they get abything from the second tranche of Cindybucks? Or are they still hoping for something. Personally, I can’t see the point of paying for stuff you can get gratis.
  
  7 2
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  November 24, 2020 1:14pm
  - Paulus
    
    Still cannot see Dominion worth a dollar !
    
    3 1
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    November 24, 2020 2:18pm
oldfella

Quick, someone tell Cindy. China has succeeded in eliminating ‘poverdy’. And a week ahead of schedule.
These Chinese communists are awesome, man. She should go visit and they can show her how to do it.
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/11/23/china-claims-succeeded-eliminating-extreme-poverty/
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November 24, 2020 12:13pm
Fletch

Just in. It looks like MI have agreed to certify their results, with three members voted in favor of certification, and one abstaining. ?

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/11/23/938015808/michigan-a-state-where-biden-leads-to-certify-election-results
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November 24, 2020 12:19pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You must have had an exciting 40 minutes there, fantasizing that the results would not be certified.
  
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  November 24, 2020 12:38pm
  - Fletch
    
    To be honest, I wish the Republican electors had stood their ground. But I can understand – with them being doxxed, the names and addresses of their families being given out. They already changed their vote and back again, amidst reports of being threatened. I can’t blame them for not wanting to take any more – to have mobs turn up at their houses.
    
    If it does mean Biden has won, it’s a sorry state of affairs for America. It will go down in history as the most mass fraudulent election ever in the U.S.
    
    9 9
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    November 24, 2020 1:00pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      What a shame there is no evidence of fraud to be produced in court.
      
      9 6
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      November 24, 2020 1:37pm
    - Batman
      
      In denial right to the end. I have to admire your stubborn refusal to face reality, Fletch.
      
      9 9
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      November 24, 2020 1:41pm
    - Critical Thinker
      
      It’s not even close to being over. Not by a long shot ?
      
      3 10
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      November 24, 2020 1:41pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Yes. It is over. By a long shot.
        
        3 4
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        November 24, 2020 4:53pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  The Republican member that voted to certify the MI election said he felt an obligation to do so, noting that it would allow the state to conduct an audit. It is not legally possible for the state to conduct an audit until the results have been certified by the MI Canvassing Board ?
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:23pm
Don Beckett

A bit long, but this is the summation of my lawyer friend in Illinois from his blog:
I believe the Presidential election was stolen by fraud, and I further believe that nothing will be done to redress this fraud. Here are some indications that the election was stolen:

Presidential bellwethers-Of all the counties that have correctly predicted the outcomes of Presidential elections since 1980, only one remains. All the others got this election “wrong”. That is stunning and unprecedented.
The House elections- Leading up to this November election, 26 Republican members of the House retired. Normally you only see such a wave of retirements when a party believes it is going to be shellacked, and the GOP thought it was going to be shellacked in the House. As a result, Republican recruitment for House candidates was lacking. The Democrats were flush with cash. Experts predicted the Democrats were going to gain 5-20 seats. (Fox predicted 5-15 on the night of the election.) Instead, it is the Republicans who are gaining circa 13 seats. Of 27 races rated tossups by experts going into the election, 27 out of 27 were won by Republicans. This was almost all due to the coattails of Donald Trump and the 74 million GOP voters he brought to the polls.
The Senate-Almost all experts thought it likely the Senate would flip to Democrat control because of the very bad map the Republicans were defending. Two seats face runoffs in Georgia, but the Republicans are favored to hold on. Several key races were decided with the help of the coattails of Donald Trump.
Legislative races-This was an important year since the new legislatures elected this year will control redistricting in most states. The Democrats put endless money into flipping legislative chambers. Instead, it was the GOP that gained circa 160 legislative seats, and the only legislature that flipped was New Hampshire, and it went from Democrat control to Republican.
Gubernatorial races-The Republicans had a net gain of one.
Success at the Ballot box-It is beyond odd for one party in a presidential election to be victorious at all other levels, yet lose the White House.
Ohio and Florida-Ohio was a presidential bellweather since 1970. Florida was a presidential bellweather since 1992. Trump won both, but still lost the election. The last Republican nominee to have this happen to him was Nixon in 1960, sixty years ago in an election clouded by suspicions of fraud.
Presidential undervotes-Some voters will vote only for President. Biden received an unusually large number, especially compared to undervotes for Trump, in key states of such undervotes. If one is going to prepare fraudulent ballots, voting for President only is a time saver, and not voting for down ballot races reduces the chance for discovery, since Presidential race totals in a state have almost never been challenged historically, whereas down ballot race challenges occur much more frequently.
Increase in Trump Vote-A sure path to victory for a president is to increase his vote total from the time he was elected. Some Presidents do win reelection even while gaining less votes. The most recent instance was Obama in 2012 who earned three and a half million votes less than in 2008. Fortunately he was running against Romney who managed the feat of increasing McCain’s pathetic total by less than a million. Votes are still being tabulated, but it looks like Trump increased his 2016 vote total by almost twelve million ballots, while Biden, a candidate who hardly campaigned, purportedly increased Clinton’s 2016 total by fourteen million ballots.
Enthusiasm-By every measure, Trump voters tended to be very enthusiastic for him while Biden voters had little enthusiasm for him, most being motivated by opposition to Trump. In Presidential contests usually the more enthusiastic side wins.
Observers-In Democrat urban centers in key states, Republican observers were harassed, and sometimes locked out. They were kept such a distance away, ostensibly out of Covid concerns, that they could not observe the actual ballots being tabulated. As I have asked many times in my legal career: If you have nothing to hide, why are you acting as if you have a great deal to hide?
Slow down and stop in vote count-After Trump took the lead on election night, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, or rather their blue controlled counties, suddenly began to slow down and stop their vote counts, which did not resume until the wee hours of the morning. It doesn’t take too much cynicism to realize that the Democrat powers that be in those counties were determining how many votes they needed to prevail. Preparation for this was made in Pennsylvania with the Mayor of Philadelphia announcing, prior to election day, that Philadelphia would not begin counting mail in ballots until the day following the election.
I could go on at some length, but you get the point. Life is full of anomalies, but pile up too many anomalies in one event and it doesn’t take 38 years practice as an attorney to recognize criminal actions. This election was stolen from the American people, and that is just fine with the powers that be in our country. Remember.

As he says, he thinks that the powers that be will roll over & let it happen, and I suspect he may be correct.
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November 24, 2020 12:19pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The matter may yet be settled in the streets.
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:55pm
  - C J Southern
    
    More poppycock. The matter is already settled; Trump lost and you lot made complete idiots of yourselves.
    
    The only question still unanswered is “will you now smarten up or will you keep on documenting your stupidity”.
    
    4 7
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    November 24, 2020 5:03pm
- Paulus
  
  My US Cousin who has live in Chicago for over 40 years says – well remember it is Illinois, and it has many branches of the Mafia (not entirely actual – but).
  Obama was famously the Senator for Illinois and the changing of housing lending legislation with his mate Clinton – from which the US economy collapsed along with many others.
  
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  November 24, 2020 2:27pm
- C J Southern
  
  What a load of shite. If that really is from a lawyer then they need to hang their head in shame because they of all people should appreciate that courts make decisions based on credible evidence – not unfounded accusation.
  
  What I read in that rubbish is tantamount to saying “I don’t care what the evidence says – I think the earth really is flat – but the truth is being kept from people due to “.
  
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  November 24, 2020 5:00pm
- cha
  
  Sure he’s your friend.
  
  https://the-american-catholic.com/2020/11/23/signs-that-the-election-was-stolen/
  
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  November 24, 2020 5:33pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Let’s be charitable and say they are Facebook friends.
    
    2 1
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    November 24, 2020 6:38pm
rangitoto

I see Genter has been branded as a filthy Kulak by Swarfega.
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November 24, 2020 12:24pm
Batman

Breaking: Trump authorises transition.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/23/us/joe-biden-trump/the-gsa-administrator-has-formally-designated-biden-the-apparent-winner-of-the-presidential-election

Biden wins. Who was it saying this morning that he would never be president?
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November 24, 2020 12:45pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  “I want to thank Emily Murphy at GSA for her steadfast dedication and loyalty to our Country. She has been harassed, threatened, and abused – and I do not want to see this happen to her, her family, or employees of GSA. Our case STRONGLY continues, we will keep up the good fight, and I believe we will prevail! Nevertheless, in the best interest of our Country, I am recommending that Emily and her team do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols, and have told my team to do the same.” – President Donald Trump
  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1331013907859845121?s=19
  
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  November 24, 2020 12:49pm
  - Fletch
    
    Right. This does not mean he is conceding. But as I said above, I would not want to be one of those electors. They have both probably been threatened five ways from Sunday. And their families, too.
    
    9 5
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    November 24, 2020 1:03pm
    - Batman
      
      Murphy has “ascertained that Biden is the apparent winner of the election”
      
      That is the official position of the US Federal Government as of this afternoon.
      
      8 5
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      November 24, 2020 1:42pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Biden is still constrained unless he is constitutionally sworn in as President.
      
      2 2
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      November 24, 2020 6:36pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    GSA Approves Biden Transition Funds
    
    “To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination. I did, however, receive threats online, by phone, and by mail directed at my safety, my family, my staff, and even my pets in an effort to coerce me into making this determination prematurely. Even in the face of thousands of threats, I always remained committed to upholding the law.
    
    GSA does not dictate the outcome of legal disputes and recounts, nor does it determine whether such proceedings are reasonable or justified. These are issues that the Constitution, federal laws, and state laws leave to the election certification process and decisions by courts of competent jurisdiction.
    
    As you know, the GSA Administrator does not pick or certify the winner of a presidential election.
    
    The actual winner of the presidential election will be determined by the electoral process detailed in the Constitution.” – US GSA Admin Emily Murphy
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/gsa-approves-biden-transition-funds/
    
    ??
    
    7 6
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    November 24, 2020 1:31pm
    - Batman
      
      Another step towards Trump bring evicted, no matter how those deluded clowns spin it.
      
      7 7
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      November 24, 2020 1:45pm
    - Inandout
      
      Batman, did you vote twice as well?
      
      5 0
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      November 24, 2020 2:06pm
      - Batman
        
        The only case of that which had been verified is the guy from Forty Fort who voted for Trump twice using his mother’s ballot.
        
        I voted zero times in the US election ?
        
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        November 24, 2020 2:12pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Let’s not get too carried away. Trump agrees that the transition teams should start talking about transition in case Biden does get the nod. Remember, it is not the NYT who determines who is president even though at this time it is looking stronger for Biden maybe 55/45 – but it is the Electoral College that will make the call on Dec. 14th.
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:03pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Sidney Powell’s statement is well worth reading.
    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/11/statement-from-sidney-powell.html
    
    6 3
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    November 24, 2020 1:14pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes, very entertaining.
      
      7 4
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      November 24, 2020 1:36pm
    - SB2
      
      “Sidney Powell’s statement is well worth reading.”
      
      That Biden is the antichrist with the apocalypse following?
      
      2 10
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      November 24, 2020 3:26pm
    - C J Southern
      
      In summary:
      
      – Same old accusations
      
      – Same old lack of evidence
      
      3 4
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      November 24, 2020 5:07pm
  - Inandout
    
    DB, our ZB music station has had a direct from CNN feed which says Trump may as well go.
    
    3 2
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    November 24, 2020 2:08pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      CNN ??? Guffaw !! 😆
      
      4 2
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      November 24, 2020 2:32pm
      - SB2
        
        Gateway Pundit too?
        
        LMAO
        
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        November 24, 2020 3:27pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s not about a win: It to prevent further threats and damage being done to the GSA administrator. It’s almost harmless temporarily.
  
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  November 24, 2020 1:57pm
- Stu2
  
  Hooray
  
  Great that the Bidan team will get all the briefings on the economy, covid and the vaccine plan etc
  
  It has been good to see more of the republicans pushing for the transition to start – not critical mass but it was building
  
  4 8
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  November 24, 2020 2:10pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFAld1c-D5w

Russia goes all out against China’s Central Asia ambitions.

Putin is eager to disrupt Chinese plans in central Asia.
Putin is on a propaganda offensive against Chinese claims.
They are wary of ‘investments’, soft power, and the BRI.
7 2
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November 24, 2020 12:48pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQaKJr4zZjA

The End of Chinese Companies on US Stock Markets?

Is it de-coupling time? Let’s hope so. The presitator is
Terrified of the idea. The US China economies may be heading towards decoupling as the SEC, the US Securities and Exchange Commission, may potentially be banning Chinese companies from the US Stock Markets for failing to comply with auditing rules and regulations. Apparently China considers those documents on Jack Ma’s Alibaba to be state secrets. It also comes after a President Donald Trump executive order banning US investment in several companies linked to the Chinese military. How will this affect Chinese stocks, like Alibaba stock? Anyhow, the presitator is hoping Beijing Bidens administration will be a lot more user friendly.
7 2
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November 24, 2020 12:48pm
Fletch

Part of the letter to Biden from the GOP elector Emily Murphy –

To be clear, I did not receive any direction to delay my determination. I did, however, receive threats online, by phone, and by mail directed at my safety, my family, my staff, and even my pets in an effort to coerce me into making this determination prematurely.

Says it all, really. The election was not won fairly. It was won by fraud, and after that, threats of violence and intimidation. That is how the Democrat machine works.
12 9
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November 24, 2020 1:29pm
- Batman
  
  Oh hogwash. She delayed executing a simple and clear administrative function because of her political loyalty to Trump, over and above the oath she swore to the constitution.
  
  No prior GSA head has pulled this stupid stunt. Death threats are not acceptable but she should have been prepared for a blowback from the public when she joined Trump’s undemocratic attempt to upend a legitimate election.
  
  She could have signed the letter and the court process would have played out anyway.
  
  In the words for the MAGA movement, fuck your feelings, amirite?
  
  Let’s not forget, this is the woman who lied to Congress about Trump discussing the FBI headquarters tender and his involvement in it and was forced to retract that lie.
  
  9 13
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  November 24, 2020 1:50pm
  - Inandout
    
    Batman, you mention ‘lies’ and forget Hunter Biden and ‘the big man’. This won’t go away despite the best efforts of the Dems to make it non-news and may eventually see Harris assume the Presidency.
    
    9 7
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    November 24, 2020 2:13pm
    - Batman
      
      So now that the fraud hoax is over, you’re back on the Hunter hoax train?
      
      Go for your life. Nobody cares.
      
      6 11
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      November 24, 2020 2:14pm
      - Inandout
        
        Batman, it won’t go away. If you think Hunter is as innocent as the driven snow you are deluded mate. Our MSM may be locked, but the US one is as free as a bird. I note Zucker and the Twitter chap have loosened their censorship of late.
        
        8 6
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        November 24, 2020 2:33pm
      - SB2
        
        Inandout, keep us up today with the state of your Hunter Biden delusions.
        
        3 12
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        November 24, 2020 3:30pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      What going on with Cinders that so much diversion is appearing? Are they worked up over the house prices or have the discovered the cost of living is out of their control?
      
      Roberson, Min Fin, Pooh Bah, looked like school boy on TV1 tonight.
      Are some going to be arrested over Ihumatao?
      Is HM concerned about her new amateur Executive Council, her advisors?
      Has Biden been granted residency? Has Obama?
      Something is going on.
      
      4 3
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      November 24, 2020 6:26pm
- MCos
  
  The Georgia Secretary Of State has to have a police guard on his house because the recount confirmed Trump came second.
  
  7 6
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  November 24, 2020 2:13pm
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, did the Republican supporters loot and burn buildings down? You have such a short memory.
    
    9 4
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    November 24, 2020 3:15pm
Fletch

Doesn’t mean it is “game over” for Trump –

It does not matter that Michigan bureaucrats wrongfully (and some would say illegally) certified Joe Biden’s “victory.” That is a step in the system, and each state has the right to engage in their own systems. But at the end of the day, those systems still need to end with a lawful and legitimate result. Right now, the currently accepted results are in doubt.

It’s incumbent on President Trump’s team of attorneys as well as independent attorneys representing the people (see Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, and others) to make their cases before the judiciary. And since we’re talking about it, the only judgments that truly matter are those made by the Supreme Court. The aforementioned Democrats, mainstream media, and social media trolls love to point out every “loss” by Team Trump in lower courts, but here’s the thing. The only thing that matters is the speed at which these cases are elevated to the Supreme Court.

A bad call by a district judge or appellate judges are just like state election board certifications. They’re procedural steps. Even if a district judge rules in favor of Team Trump, that’s not much of a win. It will be appealed, and if the appellate courts uphold it, the case will be appealed again. If it makes it to the Supreme Court, they can still overturn it, rendering any of these so-called “wins” into a giant loss.

The same holds true in reverse, and that’s the most likely set of scenarios we face. Team Trump files suits. They’re kicked by a district judge. They appeal. They’re kicked by an appellate judge. They go to the Supreme Court, and that, friends, is where justice or injustice in this insane election will be determined.

https://noqreport.com/2020/11/23/no-certification-of-votes-is-not-game-over-for-team-trump/
11 9
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November 24, 2020 1:39pm
- SB2
  
  Fletch, so longs as they don’t come up with the factual evidence voter fraud then it is ” GAME OVER” for team trump.
  
  As I’ve suggested earler throughly read and absorb the U.S. District Court Judge Matthew Brann decision. Pennsylvania.
  
  4 11
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  November 24, 2020 3:34pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    A District Court Judge? They’re a bit like yokel at the the SCOTUS level. Brann was ill mannered too.
    
    4 4
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    November 24, 2020 6:14pm
cmm

Comrades, we’re just one more regulation short of utopia.

MPs make a new rule and magically all the leaky homes, mold and dodgy wiring sort themselves out.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/123490230/healthy-home-guide-takes-aim-at-crap-quality-of-our-new-homes
11 2
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November 24, 2020 1:56pm
- Stu2
  
  It is only a non-govt guide
  
  The article didn’t include any comment from the politicans
  
  3 4
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  November 24, 2020 2:15pm
- Inandout
  
  cmm, that super home looks very much like the one just sold, with a declaration.
  https://harcourts.co.nz/Property/928503/LE14613/5-Claremont-Rise
  
  4 3
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  November 24, 2020 2:18pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Yes. The number of people who feel entitled to impose their opinions on others is the reason homes are unaffordable. And Robertson complaining that the Reserve Bank should do something about house prices demonstrates the utter cluelessness of the Government.
  
  8 4
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  November 24, 2020 2:24pm
I remember when

Letter to gisborne herald by Andy Oakley.
‘Most of us against racial segregation.’
This letter is in response to the Gisborne District Council voting in favour of separate Maori wards.
The letter presents the ‘against’ reasoning very well.
Is it being racist to suggest that Maori need separate wards.
Does it suggest that Maori need help because they are unable to do things for themselves.
Gisborne, with its near 50/50 Maori/European population split, should be the last place on earth that needs to introduce Maori wards.
16 2
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November 24, 2020 2:56pm
Maggie Pie

TWITTER NOW TRENDING…. 😀

“Will China take Ms. Mahuta seriously?”

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1330881407145664512
12 3
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November 24, 2020 3:00pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, they may well quip ‘what is running down her chin?’
  
  9 4
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  November 24, 2020 3:18pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  NO!!
  
  5 1
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  November 24, 2020 3:45pm
- Nickc2
  
  According to Winston, (remember him?) Maori are descendants of Taiwan. That will go down well with China.
  
  4 0
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  November 24, 2020 7:31pm
I remember when

The Reserve Bank and the Labour Government are, and will continue to in the short-term, doing nothing about the price of houses. Apart from expressing dismay.
The price of houses, despite many arguing it doesn’t, is considered to show our successful economy.
There is a fear that an slowdown will adversely affect the exchange rate.
So in the short-term much tut-tutting, explanations on why it isn’t the Government’s fault, much procrastination, but, if anything, only tinkering around the edges.
9 1
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November 24, 2020 3:07pm
- surfing
  
  The obvious solution is to spend billions on infrastructure first so we can open up new areas for housing
  
  This is very costly… who pays? Government or added infrastructure fee when building a new house. That infrastructure fee could easily be 500k for each new house though. Or, maybe go half and half?
  
  6 1
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  November 24, 2020 3:39pm
  - david
    
    The fact however remains that in many, many jurisdictions around the world, they manage to install the infrastructure before they start building their houses.
    Whereas here they seem to wait until half the houses are built before they finish the roads, stormwater, reserves etc and then later still someone starts to think about changing bus routes by which time they have dug up the roads twice because they forgot or undersized one of the services.
    It is shambolic , shameful, bordering on criminal neglect of duty not to mention a demonstration of massive incompetence.
    Superlatives fail me.!!!!
    
    6 0
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    November 24, 2020 4:50pm
- mandk
  
  Last time I heard the PM talking about house prices, it struck me that she had nothing to say that was more insightful than something I could hear any day by chatting to the nice ladies on the check outs at Upper Hutt Pak-n-save.
  
  Interviewer: “House prices aren’t they dreadful?”
  
  PM: “Yes, I know, but we’re better than National because we care.”
  
  Interviewer: “So what is your solution?”
  
  PM: “Well you know , Cabinet has made this a priority, and we are determined to find the answers. New Zealanders can trust us.”
  
  Interviewer: “Thank you very much Prime Minister. That’s awesome”
  
  13 2
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  November 24, 2020 4:36pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  When is Robbo going to realise that he is out of his depth as Min Fin? The PM seems to suggest it is all sweetness and light but fails to see global economic tsunami. It will wash over her but probably not standing.
  House prices? They are indirectly being controlled by excessive global credit creation which we are powerless to control.
  
  7 4
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  November 24, 2020 5:00pm
  - pdm
    
    Did I understand this right:
    
    Earlier today Robbo wrote to the Reserve Bank Governor and urged him to include Housing in his forcasts etc,
    
    Orr replied almost instantly – get nicked and stay out of my areas of responsibility.
    
    5 0
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    November 24, 2020 7:18pm
Stu2

John Bolton on the great electoral conspiracy

“Their basic argument is this was a conspiracy so vast and so successful that there’s no evidence of it. Now if that’s true, I really want to know who the people are who pulled this off, we need to hire them at the CIA.”
7 5
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November 24, 2020 4:25pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The evidence for the fraud is the suspicious lack of evidence of the fraud.
  
  5 7
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  November 24, 2020 5:13pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Oh shit, Mike is correct, almost.
    Who is covering up the lack of evidence Mike?
    Sure as fuck it is not President Donald John Trump????
    
    3 6
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    November 24, 2020 7:08pm
    - SB2
      
      Steve Otto(North Shore), the core issue is for Trump and his legal team to find evidence of voter fraud.
      
      None so far is forthcoming thats why zilch success in the courts thus far.
      
      2 8
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      November 24, 2020 8:31pm
- Fletch
  
  Um, have you not seen the hundreds of affidavits? The data that doesn’t match expected norms? The hundreds of thousands of votes (only for Biden) added at 4am? There is evidence alright.
  
  4 3
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  November 24, 2020 7:04pm
  - SB2
    
    Fletch , please persist and produce the evidence that would stand up in a court of law.
    
    Legal Team Trump have fallen considerably short with nothing.
    
    2 8
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    November 24, 2020 8:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Doesn’t look like many of us will be popping overseas any time soon…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123488648/coronavirus-government-starting-to-work-through-ramifications-of-a-vaccine–but-borders-could-be-closed-for-another-18-months
12 0
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November 24, 2020 5:07pm
- sooty
  
  Look on the bright side.
  Neithers she!
  
  7 0
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  November 24, 2020 6:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Fuck, I heard a vicious rumour about daddy and some island, and a navy ship, and no quarantine on return to NZ.
    Maybe the news is not covering that????
    
    5 3
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    November 24, 2020 7:11pm
Maggie Pie

We were just watching the story about Robbo writing to the Reverse Bank Governor with his concerns of how to bring down house prices.
As my partner said, “Who the f–k wants that to happen? If things remain on the present track, two more terms under Jacinda, and our CV could be nearly a 100 mill. She gets our vote!”
9 3
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November 24, 2020 7:26pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Reverse Bank alright…
  We’ll be paying banks for the privilege of storing our pennies soon.
  
  10 2
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  November 24, 2020 8:21pm
John Joseph

Every time I look at or read anything from or about

Jacinda Adhern

I feel like

I NEED A PUKE
2 0
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November 24, 2020 9:41pm

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