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October 27, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 October 2020

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General Debate

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Inandout

Looks like Hillary has some vomiting coming.
‘Hillary Clinton has said that a second Trump term would make her feel sick. In a New York Times podcast released Monday she said his re-election would leave her ‘literally sick to my stomach’.
Apparently Bill’s Love Island escapades were OK.
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October 27, 2020 8:02am
- cmm
  
  Clinton sick? How could you tell?
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:10am
- Simon
  
  Democracy makes Clinton sick. No one is surprised. How the Dems loath the plebs. Clinton, the mad cow, called Jill Stein & Tulsi Gabbard Russian agents. Unhinged.
  
  When Trump / America wins again its people like Clinton will cause division and hatred with their lies and sickness.
  
  The Dems called off the BLM / Antifa rioting as it hurt their support. Once Trump wins then it will be Clinton & Dem leadership fueling the hatred. The rioting will be much worst because of a sick Clinton.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:32am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Given the hatred in your comment towards political opponents who are not even from NZ, I do wonder who really despises democracy here.
    
    Hate is not a flattering colour, Simon.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:08am
    - Catgurl13
      
      What a bid load of twaddle lol.
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:14am
      - Batman
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        I listened to that podcast and none of the language was anywhere near the kind of invective that Simon just threw up.
        
        It makes one wonder where the real anger and hate comes from… Though it’s not hard to figure out. Spoiler: it all comes from the politics of white grievance that other people are allowed a voice these days.
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:35am
- Fletch
  
  The woman would do anything to win. Those new documents showed that it was her that came up with the idea to use the Russia conspiracy to divert from her email scandal. She most probably masterminded the “video” excuse for the Benghazi attack as well.
  
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  October 27, 2020 10:11am
  - Batman
    
    And yet she managed to lose in 2016 despite all her other perfectly executed conspiracies.
    
    Amazing.
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

Don’t ask your local council too many questions…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/429190/gisborne-district-council-lifts-block-on-prolific-writer-of-emails
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October 27, 2020 8:03am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, I seem to recall the Horowhenua council blocked an emailer.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:08am
- freethinker
  
  Public bodies must be held to account as their officials and staff are PUBLIC SERVANTS and as such are there to SERVE their employers whose taxes/rates pay their wages. Refusing to engage is also very dangerous as not being aware of public opinion can and often does lead to a situation developing that officials are unaware of and causes problems for them. Lockdowns globally have demonstrated that when officials fail to persuade their citizens the use of force always ends with a response of force and you cannot beat numbers.
  
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  October 27, 2020 11:00am
Tony Stuart

I’m no fan of Trump, but at least he knows his opponent’s name, unlike Joe Biden…

https://youtu.be/Gj0DRjlfvhw
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October 27, 2020 8:04am
- Inandout
  
  Tony, there is George Bush and even George Washington to consider. I love the pained look on Jill’s face as she tries to whisper a correction; well her lips moved. Elder abuse is evident here.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:12am
- krazykiwi
  
  Biden’s campaign is elder abuse writ large.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:25am
  - cmm
    
    I’d feel sorry for Jill Biden if she wasn’t enabling this abuse of her husband.
    
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    October 27, 2020 8:55am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Can some learned person here (who is not too dramatically affected by TDS) tell me why they picked Biden as their candidate?
      Was he really the very best of the bunch of possibles?
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It is symptomatic of the broken state of US politics that they can come up with candidates as bad as Trump and Biden.
        Hyper-partisanship, ossified political parties, and the enormous influence of money leads to this.
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:16am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Bizarre isn’t it? Practically any candidate could have beaten Trump and been a better president than Biden will be, but they chose the sharply declining septuagenarian, with all his skeletons in the closet. Perhaps because he had good name recognition? Or was it because he was going to be easy for DNC to push around or push aside?
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:21am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        No, according to Styx the best could have been Pete Buttigieg.
        
        Didn’t make it for some reason. Dems not ready for openly gay candidate?
        
        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/us/politics/pete-buttigieg-drops-out.amp.html
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:23am
      - cmm
        
        Well clearly Biden is the puppet with the longest strings….
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:24am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Biden was promoted for, as far as I understand, two main reasons. One, and possibly the main one, was that he among all the candidates appealed most to black voters for some reason. Perhaps it was his association with Obama, but the states and voters that pushed him into contention in the primaries were in the South where the urban black vote dominates the Democrat primaries.
        
        Second reason is that he is NOT Bernie Sanders, and and can be held to represent the entire party, sort of.
        
        I don’t think it is beyond speculating that a third major reason is that they knew he was declining rapidly and would therefore be subject to being essentially a figurehead – so the party worthies can really run the country. This also makes him an ideal way to bring the real preferred candidate onto the ticket as VP and get them into office as POTUS when Joe retires for medical reasons. Harris was always the favoured candidate of the Obama wing of the party.
        
        Given Joe’s record of venality and incompetence (yes, really, see what other Democrats used to think of him before he became VP as a non-threatening adjunct to Obama), he was not chosen for his accomplishments or his abilities. But purely because with a comprehensive media whitewash program he could be made to look like the consensus and “unity” candidate.
        
        But just maybe the Democrats should have looked at his vulnerabilities a bit harder. I mean, what serious candidate calls a lid on all campaigning for the last 9 days of a close campaign ? Either he is so far ahead in their thinking that he can afford the rest, or the risks of exposing him to a few probing questions about his corrupt behaviour and his subsequent meltdown would ruin a carefully crafted image.
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:42am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Let’s celebrate this rare moment when we are in agreement mikenmild. In a country with almost 400 million people, surely they could find people with fewer flaws and more competent than Donald Trump, Hilary Clinton or Joe Biden.
        
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        October 27, 2020 12:11pm
- Brian Marshall
  
  Have to wonder what the Biden ‘gaff of the day’ will be tomorrow….. I understand he has called curtains on events that media can report on prior to the election. He has a few virtue events between now and the Election Day, but is hiding to avoid being asked about his and Hunter’s business dealings.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:07am
- Batman
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Tony I’m surprised you got suckered by this.
  
  You know who Biden was being interviewed by?
  
  George Lopez.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:09am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “Four more years of George, ehh George…”. While Jill is whispering’Trump’.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:27am
    - Batman
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      He’s referring to his opponent and the interviewer. Though of course that won’t dissuade those with no argument beyond a mythical tale of senility.
      
      Meanwhile, how’s the incumbents seniors numbers going? Haha
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:37am
      - Catgurl13
        
        Give it up batty you know Biden is toast.
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:58am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Actually in the Florida county touted as the “Seniors County”, the GOP is up on 2016, and the Democrats are down. Roughly, the numbers are 71% GOP, 28% Dem, 1% Other. That’s GOP up 5+% on 2016, just FWIW.
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:49am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Ed,
        I can’t find a single polls with figures anything like yours. All the polls have Florida as virtually dead heat, with 1 or 2 % advantage to Biden.
        
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        October 27, 2020 2:19pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Batman has been given his talking points, and he ain’t budging !
      
      The phrasing, “Four more years OF George …” makes it pretty clear that he’s referring to his opponent, not to the interviewer. He’s confused the name in what is left of his mind. Pretty clear that Jill Biden IS saying “Trump” to remind him.
      
      Mind you, it’s not in my mind a biggie, this kind of name error is actually quite common. Over emphasised by his opponents IMHO, but the ridiculous defence that his partisans make of it IS amusing.
      
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      October 27, 2020 10:47am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Day for Audiovisual Heritage!
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October 27, 2020 8:07am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Alas, MMA, the only day I can generate any enthusiasm for is Apathetic Indifference Day.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:34am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Sorry, can’t be bothered KD. 🙂
    
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    October 27, 2020 12:58pm
Surely Knott

Police fired at again. But I don’t think we’ve been told the name of the idiot who shot the young policeman in Massey. Does he still have name suppression. Was he a gang member. What gang. Is this new shooting also a gang crime. We’re given no details. And what about the teen that was attacked in Grey lynn yesterday by ten youths. No description of the attackers.. And then two days ago another youth attacked at a park in Massey and hospitalised. No description of attackers.
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October 27, 2020 8:10am
- David George
  
  “No description of attackers”
  Have we reached the point where it’s safe to assume, where no description of the offenders is given of the perpetrators, that they are of a “non European ethnicity”. If a gang of young European men attacked a lone Maori/PI/Muslim kid they would be getting the full Neo Nazi/white supremacist/racially motivated/hate crime tag applied without hesitation or evidence.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:19am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    David George is 100% correct.
    I think that is a sick fact of life in 2020.
    
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    October 27, 2020 8:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The absence of stated ethnicity has been an invite to fill in the blanks for many years.
    
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    October 27, 2020 8:49am
  - kowtow
    
    Could be “trans”
    
    “But perhaps it is the influence of Stonewall on the police and the judiciary that is most concerning. Indeed, many police forces are listed as Stonewall Diversity Champions, which has an actual impact on how they conduct investigations. For example, in June this year, as reported by Fair Cop, vital details about a serious sexual assault, including the fact that the perpetrator was a man dressed as a woman, were witheld by Hertfordshire constabulary to avoid ‘a situation where members of the gay or trans communities in particular are being targeted by hurtful comments or actions as a result of this information being released’. In doing so, Hertfordshire constabulary, one of Stonewall’s Diversity Champions, effectively compromised an investigation into a brutal sex attack on a young man.”
    
    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/23/the-rise-and-fall-of-stonewall/
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:06am
  - crikey
    
    Are there any gangs of young European men, or women for that matter.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:18am
    - Jack5
      
      The white Harris gang was long the top dog gang in Christchurch, but hasn’t been heard of for years. Probably now just typical suburbanites.
      
      Then there were white motorbike gangs in the south, such as the Antarctic Angels.
      
      It’s interesting how these seem to have disappeared while Maori gangs like the Mongrel Mob are inter-generational.
      
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      October 27, 2020 10:14am
      - RF
        
        The Harris gang has grown up and appear to have disappeared apart from some of the younger ones getting into the odd spot of bother. Wining a major Lotto prize helped them.
        
        The father was snoopy Harris who was not a good role model for his family. He was involved in circus / carnivals who attract a certain class of individual.
        
        Successful criminals these days tend to rely on brains and not brawn.
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:48am
  - Earl Dumarest
    
    The 17 year old who was beaten up in Spargo Park claimed there were 4 attackers and he was attacked from behind and he didn’t see his attackers. Yet he was able to count them. He suffered serious dental work and needed 40 stitches to his face. Attack lasted 5 minutes. Didn’t say if he was in full running-gear. Must have been a heck of a whack to the back of his head to cause dental damage. The mother who was part Maori went OTT on TV news. But stopped short of saying it was a drug deal gone wrong
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:28am
    - Catgurl13
      
      You have no proof it’s about a drug deal. He might be scared as he might know them in his neighbourhood or school.
      
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      October 27, 2020 11:20am
      - IC5000
        
        There is no proof that the suspects are islanders or Maori either but that doesn’t stop people from speculating.
        
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        October 27, 2020 8:22pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The Auckland murder accused’s name suppression lapsed in August
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300082738/auckland-police-shooting-alleged-murderer-can-now-be-named
  
  I have seen some speculation that he is related to another murderer, who recently escaped from custody and was on the run for a week before being recaptured.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/426873/convicted-killer-katrina-epiha-found-in-west-auckland
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:31am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Thanks Toni. Eli Epiha. Interesting that even once they’ve named him there is no photo – there is a photo of the getaway driver but not the shooter? And no google search comes up with his name and photo. Google comes up with Katrina Epiha (same surname – related?) who is the woman who murdered another young woman at a west auckland house party. At the time of the murder, she was aged 18. She had been born and raised in a gang environment, where she suffered extensive and repeated violence and neglect. She was in Child, Youth, and Family care from the age of 7.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:58am
- kowtow
  
  Police hierarchy said the buy back and law changes would make the country safer .
  
  How’s that workin’ ?
  
  As to descriptions . They’ve probably made some sort of commitment to some charter or other where naming names or putting out descriptions is seen to “hurt” or ‘re victimise’ one “community” or other . No shit .
  
  We’ve gone down the rabbit hole.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:32am
- Inandout
  
  SK, I too displayed concern about name suppression and then I heard the Covid lady on radio talking about businesses which must display QR codes. I felt a sudden soothing sensation that all will be well under Jacinda, we are being watched over by the most popular PM in NZ’s history. Labour has replaced the belief in a higher being, they are the meaning of life.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:02am
- The Boss
  
  A result of a government that is soft on crime. It will get worse, I am afraid to say.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:16am
- Catgurl13
  
  Well we do have lower the prisoner numbers as Labour promised,so that means letting crims go and not putting them in there to start with…..hugs and cuddles fix criminals don’t have know?
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:17am
- Earl Dumarest
  
  The minute a crime is committed the Australian news broadcasters always state the police are looking for a person or persons of middle eastern appearance, or Pacific Island appearance, or Maori appearance, or Caucasian appearance
  
  The NZ news-broadcasters never do that
  
  The difficulty is, its pretty difficult identifying anyone of Maori appearance cos most of them are less than 20% blood and mostly look Caucasian. Unless they have been branded with a full facial tattoo or a cultural moko
  
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  October 27, 2020 10:19am
- cmm
  
  Why name suppression is bad.
  
  Society still wants to protect itself, so name suppression will force people to speculate and start rumours etc.
  
  Name suppression should only be allowed in the most extreme cases.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wellington-music-scene-allegations-police-warn-of-misinformation-on-social-media/GP2DNZLBYWPOEZSFOSQJ76ZWL4/
  
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  October 27, 2020 3:16pm
- mark15
  
  Was his firearm banned?
  11 shots,possibly without reloading.
  I suppose we’ll never find that out either.
  
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  October 27, 2020 6:04pm
WaynelSexton

Even the fake polls have Trump ahead in Florida and North Carolina. Expect Trump to win by double digits there.

https://texasinsider.org/articles/trump-now-beating-biden-49-46-in-florida-48-47-in-north-carolina-says-rasmussen-polls
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October 27, 2020 8:11am
- Simon
  
  Yep. When Trump / America wins MSM will say that their polls were only aspirational.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:34am
  - sooty
    
    Will we see cindy before the American election?
    She will be struck down with consumption if Trumpy wins!
    Bigly consumption of hard liquor!
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:01am
    - Batman
      
      Sooty I totally expect the same from a few people here when Trump loses bigly.
      
      What’s your choice of tipple?
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:04am
      - Random T Person
        
        Win ore lose we drink the booze.
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:32am
      - Batman
        
        That’s a slogan I can get behind, for sure
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:32am
      - Catgurl13
        
        Don’t hold your breath Batman…or is that a promise?
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:00am
  - Jimmy White
    
    The Pollsters can’t get it as wrong as they got the NZ election could they? Their silence in NZ as been deafening.
    
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    October 27, 2020 3:19pm
- Scott
  
  Yes as a Fox pollster Frank Luntz said recently, “if Trump wins then the polling industry is out of business”.
  
  If it weren’t for the polls saying Biden has a lead of 8 points everyone would think Trump is ahead. Massive crowds, massive enthusiasm, heaps of energy. On the other hand no crowds, no enthusiasm and no energy. Biden is doing no campaign events today!
  Let that sink in. He’s doing no campaigning the week before the election. He’s either got it in the bag or he can’t be bothered because he’s too tired.
  I think the latter. He’s too old and tired to be potus.
  Trump is full of energy and the people are behind him. I do hope he wins. Just watching them cry on CNN. Priceless! ?
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:47am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Polls in NZ turned out to be accurate. I was hopping they were wrong.
    
    After the NZ experience I will take note of polls, but also put a lot of weight on photographs of crowds in Malls, rallies etc.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:13am
    - Isobar
      
      Even then here in NZ the polls overstated Nationals vote and understated Labour. Whose to say it wont happen in the US too.
      
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      October 27, 2020 2:05pm
    - Jimmy White
      
      The NZ polls were totally wrong. They got the right result be the margin was so far out you could drive a bus though it.
      
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      October 27, 2020 3:20pm
  - Batman
    
    Scott I don’t thinking you’re interpreting Luntz’s comment how he meant it…
    
    As for Wayne’s assessment that Trump will win by double digits in Florida and North Carolina… Well, I didn’t realise everyone was smoking weed in anticipation of the referendum succeeding!
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:23am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Get real Batman, Biden is an entertaining clown. He can barely remember which shoe goes on which foot lol.
      
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      October 27, 2020 10:03am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Well, I have to admit that I am a bit confused with the likely outcome.
      
      The polls, or at least those reported in the NZ media are pretty definite that it’s a landslide for Biden – today’s Dom has an article speculating that Biden will win Texas. And almost all of the US MSM are all in on the blue wave.
      
      On the other side though, no one can doubt that there is an absolutely huge enthusiasm gap – the Democrats even rolled out Obama for two gigs, and there ain’t no draw card bigger than that in the Dem inventory, and he drew derisory numbers in Philadelphia -less than 1,000 people. And even fewer at the next event. They had Cher singing at an LA event and there was nobody watching. Same with Harris campaign events, the audience is in the tens or hundreds max. Nobody is interested in attending. And enthusiasm is important to get your supporters out to vote; sure plenty vote early – and this year the early vote is much larger, but the majority of voters will vote on the day and you need to get them out.
      
      Next point is that there are some targeted polls, as mentioned by a previous commenter, and these seem to be pro trump, Florida looks solid, NC also if a little less definite, and PA seems to be solidifying for Trump. On the ground numbers support this; advance voting in Palm Beach FL (went heavily for Clinton and had a huge early vote lead for her in 2016) has GOP actually in front, which is unheard of. And in PA, the Dem vote is Philadelphia (their biggest vote catchment in the State) is down over 20% compared to the same time 2016 even though otherwise the early vote is up. Again, if real and this continues, even mass voter fraud using “stray” mail ballots returned after the election won’t be enough.
      
      So, the signals are contradictory, but in my view the real on the ground numbers seem to point Trumpwards. Hard to know though.
      
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      October 27, 2020 11:06am
- Fletch
  
  There will most likely be weeks of legal fighting if Trump wins – and waits while huge numbers of postal votes come in to be counted. The Dems will ramp those up if it looks like Trump is winning.
  
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  October 27, 2020 10:14am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Rasmussen have historically been biased about 1.5% towards republicans: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/
  I think a key factor will be in enthusiasm – If voters think Biden is as corrupt as the info coming out portrays then a lot of his likely voters will simply stay home even if they won’t switch to Trump.
  
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  October 27, 2020 3:28pm
I remember when

BBC covid figures for Scotland to 6 October.
In first 4 weeks 62% of deaths occurred in hospital.
From 13 April to 14 June (53%) were in care homes.
Since mid-June there have been slightly more deaths in hospital, although for this period the number of deaths was much lower.
Over the course of the Pandemic 47% of deaths were in hospital, 46% in care homes and only 7% of deaths were at home.
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October 27, 2020 8:13am
- Brian Marshall
  
  I don’t know why people down ticked you for stating statistics. Maybe they have replies in moderation that will explain why they down ticked you. ?
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:12am
  - Jimmy White
    
    The down tickers on this site can’t spell statistics
    
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    October 27, 2020 3:24pm
- theoldbloke
  
  https://www.newzealandtoday.net/home/2020/10/27/sir-ray-avery-supports-lancets-call-for-nz-covid-inquiry
  
  And Hipkins says no!
  Why am I not surprised
  
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  October 27, 2020 10:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Haven’t heard from Ray Avery for awhile. Perhaps he’s planning another ‘fundraising’ concert…
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:17am
    - BassilFawlty
      
      Sir Ray Avery.
      
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      October 27, 2020 1:03pm
- cmm
  
  I am not at all surprised because that follows how CV19 positive patients were handled in many countries (including here)
  
  The first few cases got the full hospital treatment whether they were mild or serious. Slowly this shifted so that only serious cases went to hospital.
  
  Once it got into the care homes they didn’t move those people to hospital any more.
  
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  October 27, 2020 3:23pm
artemisia

Is it time for a different long march via local authority elections? Not a bad training ground for central government aspirants especially if managed with policy support and media exposure.

The long march has been carefully worked to great advantage here, and there indications of a concerning plan in the north of the UK too.
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October 27, 2020 8:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A different creature is required. The go-getter executive needed for Executive Govt would be a fish out of water in the Council Chambers where ambition is frowned upon.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:52am
  - tf78
    
    Kev, I remember talking to Cameron Brewer he said being a councilor was like hitting his head against a brick wall everyday. That’s why he gave up unfortunately.
    
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    October 27, 2020 11:04am
    - artemisia
      
      Wouldn’t that change if there is a majority of like minded councillors with their feet pointing in much the same direction? It works well for the left.
      
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      October 27, 2020 2:48pm
- Nermal
  
  Argument is spurious when you consider Jami-lee Ross was elected to both Manukau & Auckland Councils before standing for parliament
  
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  October 27, 2020 3:03pm
hullkiwi

Got too state radio RNZ, and their continuous pumping of narratives, rather than facts/news/reality.

Example 1.
Newshub are reporting the case of a Napier child who tested positive for Covid after on arrival from NZ. This after the child tested negative in NZ, apparently NZ officials are scratching their heads. This story was not reported by RNZ in either its 7.00am or 7.30am news bulletins, but what was reported was the US Chief of Staff saying that lockdowns don’t work, and the incredulity that this was the opposite of what Biden has been saying. Well reality check, countries across Europe are going into lockdowns for a second time this year, so obviously, the first lockdowns eliminated the virus?

Example 2
The Democrats are upset that Trump’s latest nominee to the Supreme Court is likely to be confirmed today. Democrats are upset. Sorry, but 1. the US Congress remains until mid January, the Republicans control the Senate, and the Justices of the Supreme Court can only adjudicate as a case comes before them, the fact someone is critical of an earlier decision, does not give them a licence to go and rewrite earlier decisions. Something woke RNZ and their commenariat do not seem to appreciate.
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October 27, 2020 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  ‘countries across Europe are going into lockdowns for a second time this year, so obviously, the first lockdowns eliminated the virus?’
  
  And all this after all that mask wearing ?
  
  Tell us again how masks are so effective , other than as a prop in the theatre of the absurd.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The democrats are upset that the republicans refused to even consider a supreme court nomination in the last election year, but are rushing a nomination through now. They are also upset that the nominee refuses to answer even the simplest of questions about her political and legal opinions.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The candidates a proven Judge and quite properly won’t be compromised. Her integrity as a Justice speaks for itself. Regardless of her religion & politics she seems to be a very fine Judge.
    Without such people on a Court Justice can be bent to will.
    
    The Rule of Law must be honoured. Our land law is now in disarray being suspended by activists, the PM and the Police collaborating in the Ihumatao seizure. Law requires certainty not persuasion or seasonal variants.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:00am
    - Batman
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      If she’s proven, why has she dodged every question of substance?
      
      It would be funny if the simpering display by the GOP Senators wasn’t so pathetically obvious.
      
      3 37
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      October 27, 2020 9:26am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Those who ask inappropriate questions of a judicial officer cannot expect an answer in detail.
        
        6 0
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        October 27, 2020 12:57pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Interesting, your definition of substance.
        
        4 0
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        October 27, 2020 1:02pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Mma, the Republicans had a Senate majority even in 2016. So the Demoxrats nomination would have gone nowhere. The grandstanding by the Democrats is for the media and the polls next week. As for dodging answering questions, that is an allegation not borne out by the hearing process. The US isin
    the bi-annusl election season and we are witnessing the usual grandstanding, nothing more.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:34am
    - Batman
      
      Your point about the state majority in 2016 shows exactly what is wrong with the GOP and why it deserves the electoral belting it is about to receive
      
      3 24
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      October 27, 2020 9:45am
      - Nickc2
        
        Don’t know what you are on Batman but it can’t be good for ya.
        
        14 2
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        October 27, 2020 10:53am
      - freethinker
        
        Batman – if Trump wins the verbal belting you get will be of biblical proportions.
        
        12 1
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        October 27, 2020 11:18am
    - Isobar
      
      I just dont understand, if the republicans were confident of winning, why the rush?
      
      I think they know Trump is likely gone as is possibly their majority. Make hay whilst the sun shines.
      
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      October 27, 2020 2:15pm
  - Isobar
    
    It is such a shame that the Senate is a farce. Long gone are the days of working together finding compromises for the common good. Both sides are guilty.
    
    It’s not good for democracy to have such division, anger and ‘quick point scoring’, it is especially not good to have so much politics involved in a institution that is supposed to be neutral.
    
    This is a quick ‘win’ for the republicans, but it will be democracy that loses and moreso the United States standing in the world will continue to diminish, until they can all start acting like adults again. By then though it might be too late.
    
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    October 27, 2020 2:13pm
Classic Liberal

Human rights of Australian travellers abused in Qatar:

At Hamad international airport Qatar Airways internally examined women from a plane after a baby was found in the terminal.

In a western country this would be sexual assault.

Why do civilised people even stop over in such a country where their citizens have no human rights?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-54682565

In Qatar:

“Sharia law is the main source of Qatari legislation”

“Many women who get pregnant with an illegitimate child are jailed.”

“Qatar’s criminal code declares the punishment for fornication is 100 lashes.[8] Married men and women who commit adultery can be punished by death”

“in 2012 at least six foreign nationals were sentenced to floggings of either 40 or 100 lashes.”

“As of 2014, certain provisions of the Qatari Criminal Code allows punishments such as flogging and stoning to be imposed as criminal sanctions”

As for a gay couple: “Homosexuality is a crime punishable in sharia by the death penalty for Muslims, though in Qatar the penalty for consenting males is up to 5 years in prison”

For the further joys of Qatar’s sharia law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar

Under our current identity politics and the coming hate speech laws we are now being forced to respect all this as part of a religion.

Is Ardern getting ideas from Qatar?

“A cyber law which passed in late September 2014 severely limited freedom of speech and freedom of expression rights”.

“The law states that the authority may in each individual case judge whether the content is suitable or not. No guidelines or references are currently available to say what type of content is allowed.”

Is this twit really too stupid to see the huge contradiction between being pro LGBT and pro equal rights for women and yet forcing us to respect and sweet talk religions that treat women and gays like this?
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October 27, 2020 8:20am
- kowtow
  
  Borders are very interesting places when it comes to “human rights”. The west also gives itself huge powers at the margins . Passwords for computers etc
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:42am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Agreed. But anti-terrorism or drug charges are quite different concerns than having aspects of sharia law enforced because you’re in the wrong country.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:13am
- Jimmy White
  
  No body who is writing about this incident has mentioned the baby. What low life would have a baby and dump it in a toilet.
  
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  October 27, 2020 3:29pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    A ‘lowlife’ who was going to be flogged and imprisoned. Desperately scared, maybe just a girl who had been raped.
    
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    October 27, 2020 5:35pm
WaynelSexton

Influenza disappeared guys….

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875201/Has-Covid-killed-flu.html
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October 27, 2020 8:24am
- burt
  
  Saved by Starlinda The Kind.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:35am
burt

This guy will be wishing he was a Labour Party member so he could get his charges dropped and permanent name suppression.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/123202426/notorious–paedophile-moves-into-wellington-home-surrounded-by-kids
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October 27, 2020 8:27am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  If it’s not safe to release him to a place where there are kids living nearby, it’s not safe to release him at all.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:40am
  - burt
    
    I disagree, as long as the Spinoff hasn’t run a story about him we can pretend he’s done nothing wrong and nobody told us about it.
    
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    October 27, 2020 8:42am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Uptick for that. There is nowhere to house released prisoners that is not somehow going to be considered too close to children or schools. Given that offenders are released, it seems that some more realism needs to be attached to the actual danger posed. The law already provides for extended supervision of child-sex offender for up to ten years following release.
    
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    October 27, 2020 8:43am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      We need a paedo-village somewhere isolated. Keep them away from temptation and let them live otherwise useful/OK lives.
      
      6 2
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      October 27, 2020 9:26am
      - artemisia
        
        Saw a doco about one in the US. Families could live there as well and there was work not too far away. Has to be worth a look.
        
        5 0
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        October 27, 2020 10:39am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      White Island. With an escape pod.
      
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      October 27, 2020 1:03pm
  - pdm
    
    Angry Andy and Klueless Kelvin do not want him in jail.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:00am
Yvette

Touched on here on kiwiblog by one commenter yesterday, Newsroom reports –

A case for teaching Islam in schools
The current Islamic education system in New Zealand is best described as a Band-Aid to genuine religious education, writes the president of the International Muslim Association of New Zealand, Tahir Nawaz.
In countries like the United Kingdom and across Europe, although a large number of Muslims follow the traditional Islamic way of life, there is concern around the number of Muslims becoming radicalised in their religion.
How could this happen in advanced western countries and what lessons can be drawn to avoid this happening in New Zealand? It is becoming urgent that we address these questions as a nation so all New Zealanders are able to live in peace and harmony.

To be sure, the main cause for the rise in Muslim extremism overseas is the brainwashing and radicalisation of Muslims with inaccurate Islamic teachings and ideologies.

If I can fairly assess what the criticism is of local Islamic tuition, it is balance –

The current Islamic education system in New Zealand is best described as a Band-Aid to genuine religious education … Without a proper Islamic education system, parents who want their children to obtain higher Islamic education usually send them to overseas countries like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, where the children are totally immersed in the system, but at a higher risk of radicalisation from the groups that target these countries of highly concentrated belief …

The best result is achieved when a proper balance is struck in imparting Islamic education alongside Kiwi cultural values to Muslim children during a normal school period. For this to happen, a group or panel of Islamic educators should be brought under one roof to develop a proper and balanced Islamic curriculum with input from government and faith groups. [1]

One basic question of course, is what adjustments could be made to the Call to Prayer, a crux statement of Islamic belief, that “Allahu Akbar – God is Great. Ashhadu an la ilaha illa Allah – I bear witness that there is no god except the One God.” – to, of course, the exclusion of all other religions.

The rest implies some revision of Islam, but with the Koran being believed to be the eternal unchanging word of Allah, how is change possible?

[1] https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-case-for-teaching-islam-in-schools
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October 27, 2020 8:37am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It is realistic to expect that a religious education can be provided to Muslim children in New Zealand without turning out kids who believe apostasy should be punished by death, etc.
  In the same way, a Christian education can be provided without turning out kids who believe homosexuality is a crime, etc.
  
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  October 27, 2020 8:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It would be preferable that New Zealand children weren’t taught to believe in magical nonsense, of course, but I don’t think we can impinge on freedom of belief to that extent.
    
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    October 27, 2020 8:53am
    - mandk
      
      I agree about the magical nonsense.
      
      Darwinian evolution should be the first thing on the scrap heap.
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:16am
      - Swifty
        
        mandk, what would you replace it with?
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:59am
      - Jack5
        
        Swifty, the replacement would include a fossils factory.
        
        4 1
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        October 27, 2020 10:37am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      To the extent of sticking to secular education in schools: yes, we could.
      
      6 1
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      October 27, 2020 9:17am
    - burt
      
      It would be preferable that New Zealand children weren’t taught to believe in magical nonsense
      
      Like Taniwha ?
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:59am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I doubt any children are being taught that taniwha are real, in the same way that some children are taught that wine and crackers can be transformed into blood and flesh.
        
        3 20
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        October 27, 2020 10:23am
      - MCos
        
        I have two three year old grandchildren.
        When one of them comes to my house she insists on checking with a torch behind every closed door and under every bed for bears & monsters.
        The other one went to her Dad’s work the other day and someone asked her what Santa was bringing her for Xmas.
        She told him Santa wasn’t real, he’s just a character.
        So, there’s a wide variety of beliefs in this world.
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:44am
      - Ed Snack
        
        No, but they learn pretty quickly that Taniwha are worth a great deal of $$$, no matter how mythical they might be…
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:14am
  - Ruahine
    
    Traditional Christianity teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Leviticus I believe.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:07am
    - MCos
      
      There’s some pretty weird stuff in the Old Testament. Many Christians, including Catholics, pretty much ignore it.
      
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      October 27, 2020 10:51am
      - kowtow
        
        The Pope in Rome being one of them.
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:18am
      - virtualmark
        
        The theological argument is that Peter’s vision in Acts chapter 10 is viewed as Christians being released from the strict laws of Judaism. Hence why many (basically all) Christians do not feel bound by the detailed Old Testament laws.
        
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        October 27, 2020 4:35pm
  - Inandout
    
    m&m, some Christians don’t go along with homosexuality but unlike Islam don’t usually call for their death. Even if death is not on the list, Muslims by a large percentage believe homosexuality should not be tolerated; and that was from a UK survey.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:24am
  - crikey
    
    Religious education for Muslims can (is) and should be provided in Mosques. That is where it should stay.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:30am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I don’t see why only Christians should be allowed religious schools. As it happens, we already have some Islamic schools here.
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:54am
      - Ehlana
        
        milkenmildagain – I think Tahir Nawaz is suggesting Islamic education in state schools: “The best result is achieved when a proper balance is struck in imparting Islamic education alongside Kiwi cultural values to Muslim children during a normal school period”.
        He doesn’t seem to have considered current concerns around the existing Christian education programmes some schools run. I don’t see how an Islamic education program wouldn’t raise the same issues – what do all the other children do while this is on?
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:22am
      - Jack5
        
        And, everywhere, the Green schools of the State system.
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:31am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The concern would be identical – state schools should not host religious instruction. I’d go further, and disqualify religious schools from receiving any taxpayer support.
        
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        October 27, 2020 10:39am
      - Jack5
        
        Trouble is Milky, the Paris school where the teacher was butchered almost certainly had no religious instruction.
        
        Schools can’t completely isolate themselves safely from religious ideologies.
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:13am
    - Nickc2
      
      Likewise and religious teachings for non-muslim children should be carried out in churches of their parent’s choice, not schools.
      
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      October 27, 2020 11:12am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Only as many mosques here as there are cathedrals in Saudi and Pakistan. It’s a deal.
      
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      October 27, 2020 1:04pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Whoosh – and the point goes right over your head.
      
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      October 27, 2020 3:48pm
  - burt
    
    In the same way, a Christian education can be provided without turning out kids who believe homosexuality is a crime, etc
    
    It might be better to teach them to think it’s a crime rather than teach them to kill people for it.
    
    But lets not dare be honest about what each religion actually stands for or some people wearing hijabs for photo-op moments might need to acknowledge they are using a symbol of female subjugation as a fashion accessory.
    
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    October 27, 2020 9:50am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      All religions stand for magical nonsense, and the dangerous notion that some ideas or behaviours are abopve the reach of a secular society.
      
      9 9
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      October 27, 2020 9:56am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Well, there’s excellent evidence around and about that nonsense does not require religious support to be present.
        
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        October 27, 2020 1:05pm
  - Overworked
    
    I’d be happy with religious education that didn’t turn out people who thought they had a right to interfere in other people’s lives at all. Fat chance.
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:17am
- Inandout
  
  Yvette, meanwhile in the real world:
  https://www.politico.eu/article/on-islam-macron-is-more-measured-than-his-critics-claim/
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:06am
  - Yvette
    
    Yes, Inandout, I noted a few days ago here on kiwiblog [1] under the ‘heading’, French beheading, that in the “real world” –
    
    The attack came as Macron is pushing for a new law against what he calls domestic “separatism,” notably by Islamic radicals accused of indoctrinating vulnerable people through home schools, extremist preaching and other activities. France has the largest Muslim population in Western Europe with up to 5 million members, and Islam is the country’s No. 2 religion.
    
    Islamists would not be allowed to sleep quietly in France, Macron was quoted as saying in a cabinet meeting on Sunday.
    
    Islamists here, advocating teaching Islam in presumably state schools, need to explain what is different between political Islam in France and Islam in New Zealand.
    
    [1] my earlier comment with other links https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/10/general_debate_21_october_2020.html#comment-2826225
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:50am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There can be no case for Muslim teaching in NZ schools. Let those who want it teach their own.
  
  Do we want to foster a religious war between Muslim and Christians? Islam does not tolerate others outside their religion. Look at the mess now in France. We could easily become like that if we allow Muslims to become a larger part of our population. They have pressures to perform and won’t be stopped which means we have to be extra watchful. It is not a matter of being nice but setting boundaries.
  I understand that our prisons are under attack to get prisoners to convert to Islam. If true this must be stamped out.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:10am
  - Catgurl13
    
    It doesn’t help when we have a hijab wearing PM who injects the Muslim prayer into our Parliament when she isn’t even remotely Muslim.
    
    32 2
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    October 27, 2020 9:24am
    - RF
      
      Sadly it’s all about Me Me Me.
      
      She is as cunning as an outhouse rat as nothing is left to chance. I believe she follows a tight script prepared by one of her many minders.
      
      Do not under estimate her.
      
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      October 27, 2020 9:56am
  - MCos
    
    There’s a couple of Islamic schools not a million miles from my house. Also a Mormon outfit, Baptist Church round the corner, Anglican Church, some sort it Tibetan Buddhist mini temple & a Chinese place down the road.
    What do you think happens? A rumble on Swanson Park every Friday night or something?
    
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    October 27, 2020 11:01am
    - Paulus
      
      I am not afraid that they have a wish to kill me as part of their teaching.
      
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      October 27, 2020 1:51pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  Islam in schools, the future boomers left for their grandchildren….
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:55am
  - Catgurl13
    
    No this is what gen Zders are voting for,not realising the consequences of being woke.
    
    21 3
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    October 27, 2020 10:06am
    - Inandout
      
      Cat, Islam says marriage is between male and female and sex outside marriage is taboo. So how do our woke people go along with this ‘old fashioned’ idea, but especially with two genders and no other. The left push Muslim laws to one side because it doesn’t suit their agenda and even when it involves despising gays.
      
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      October 27, 2020 12:26pm
  - Flossie
    
    Boomers??? Jacinda isn’t even close!
    Not sure what generation to blame but hardly Boomers (although I do realise lots of younger people want to blame boomers for EVERYTHING they consider a problem)
    
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    October 27, 2020 12:48pm
- Ehlana
  
  Aren’t all world views exclusionary though?
  We all believe that we are right in what we believe; I think what is needed is to understand and accept that other people believe differently.
  Rather than religious education in schools, we perhaps need free society education, learning that everyone has equal rights of freedom of thought, expression and association and that we resolve conflicting ideas through the medium of laws promulgated by a Parliament of elected representatives.
  
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  October 27, 2020 11:00am
- oldfella
  
  Yvette: this French poll is something that should alarm Kiwis.
  “87% of French people say they agree with the fact that secularism is now in danger in France, and 79% that Islamism has declared war on the nation and the Republic,” reports Ifop.
  https://summit.news/2020/10/26/poll-79-of-french-believe-islamism-has-declared-war-on-their-country/
  
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  October 27, 2020 11:05am
  - oldfella
    
    A reminder that it’s not wise to upset the ‘religion of peace’.
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201026-resist-the-blackmail-french-companies-brace-for-arab-boycott
    
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    October 27, 2020 1:10pm
- already-registered
  
  There also is a case against teaching Islam in schools.
  
  Quite simply: the truth about Islam can never be taught.
  
  On a superficial level, Kiwi Muslims proclaim Islam is the only true religion, a religion of peace, Mohammed is the perfect man, the model for mankind. Kiwi Muslims claim the wars that Mohammed fought were always and only defensive, and that Mohammed abolished slavery, and elevated women in society.
  
  On this superficial level, Kiwi Muslims claim the Bible as we have it today is corrupted, the Koran is the inspired eternal word of Allah, with not a thing changed from the beginning of time, the Arabic text existed in heaven when Allah made the universe. Kiwi Muslims claim that there is only one Arabic text of the Koran which is clear and easy to understand and is the ultimate authority, full of scientific miracles.
  
  On this superficial level, Kiwi Muslims proclaim that all one needs to do to become a Muslim is say a simple profession of faith, and then say daily prayers, give alms, fast and visit Mecca (if possible).
  
  On this superficial level, the 1400 years of violent subjugation of surrounding nations are from people who are not real Muslims, or real Muslims fighting defensively when the message of Koran is resisted.
  
  It is with this superficial knowledge that Kiwis are encouraged to become Muslims by other Kiwi Muslims, simply by saying the simple prayer.
  
  Going on a bit further, you are now part of the global Islamic community and must participate in their lifestyle, imitating the behaviour of the prophet of Islam, submitting to Allah by submitting to the instructions of your leader.
  
  Going a bit deeper, Islam divides the world into two houses, the house of Islam, and the house of war. Which are you in? The submitters, or the kaffir? Remember now that this prophet also said “War is deceit!” And Allah is the best of deceivers!
  
  To be fair, many Muslims brought up in the West have never read the Koran, or the Gospels which the Koran keeps referring to. They rely only on the verbal teachings of their leaders. If they had read the Koran, they would have seen that it portrays their prophet in a totally different light than what is proclaimed in the Western countries.
  
  Most Muslims are unaware that every single superficial claim about Mohammed and the Koran is easily provable as false. There are no new good or nice revelations in the Koran, only violent ones.
  
  Most Kiwi Muslims are unaware that the Koran upholds the divine inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Gospels that Mohammed was holding in his hands back then. It’s ironic that their leaders use the same Gospels they claim are corrupt, to also claim these very same corrupt Gospels foretold the coming of their prophet in the Gospel of John! Their leaders cannot tell the truth about the Koran, because the Gospels that Mohammed had in his day could clearly prove Koranic statements false, which is why the only converts were the losers of wars!
  
  If you’re wondering why Islam is so violent overseas, most Kiwi Muslim converts are unaware that their prophet married a 6 year old, had 11 wives, abolished adoption so he could marry his adopted sons wife, encouraged sex slavery, encouraged deception, and warred unceasingly. Kiwi Muslims are only following as much of the story as their leaders will tell them.
  
  If you want to know why there are so many Kiwi women in our mental health system after relationships with Islamic men, (or why there are so many Islamic men in our mental health system!) just look at the Islamic sources, Koran, Sira and Hadiths, to see how Mohammed and his followers treated women!
  
  Why is Islam the same in NZ as it is overseas? Just as Islam is an imported ideology, so also is all of the promotional material imported from overseas, including teachings and even the teachers and evangelists themselves. These resources and people are imported from Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and anywhere where Islam has money to send to evangelists. If you want to know what Islam will be like in New Zealand, look overseas.
  
  But to question the teachings of the imams, results in, well, just look at the comment section of anyone who does! Punishments for leaving Islam range from shunning, shame, torture or just death. If Islam is different in NZ than it is overseas, it would be easy for FIANZ to place a notice on it’s website, and circulated around the mosques, stating that here in New Zealand, Muslims are free to leave or change their religion without any fear of retribution or action taken by other Muslims, either here or overseas.
  
  Remember, there’s only two options for Muslims, the house of Islam, or the house of War. Mohammed says “War is deceit.”
  
  The only way western Muslims can stop people critiquing their religion by calling out their deceit, is to call any such critique ‘hate speech’ and convince western governments to outlaw ‘hate speech’.
  
  from: https://islamicstatewatch.com/2020/10/26/newsroom-a-case-against-teaching-islam-in-schools/
  
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  October 31, 2020 3:31pm
I remember when

Is it time to allow Maori to replace Oranga Tamariki for those families who wish to be treated in this way?
Perhaps a Maori controlled system would result in better communication within the child welfare sector.
A two system approach which would allow comparison so that actions would be able to measured by result. Officials could then adjust their methods if shown to be inferior.
Perhaps something along the lines of ERO could be put in place. This would have oversight over both systems.
It might result in a wider discussion than the present endless complaints and lack of satisfaction .
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October 27, 2020 8:44am
- sooty
  
  Or is it more money for maori?
  
  29 0
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  October 27, 2020 9:08am
  - Nickc2
    
    With no accountability to anyone but themselves.
    
    18 0
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    October 27, 2020 11:18am
- mandk
  
  Wider discussion?
  
  I thought we just need fewer Maori babies being beaten or shaken to death.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:13am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Define Maori.
  
  15 1
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  October 27, 2020 9:19am
  - Jack5
    
    Maori … Polynesian voyagers who got lost in the South Pacific and were marooned, stranded, for centuries, in the archipelago that became New Zealand.
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:46am
    - Jack5
      
      They were originally on a paddling-holiday tour headed for Surfers Paradise.
      
      8 1
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      October 27, 2020 10:59am
    - Ed Snack
      
      There were two way voyages for sometime, until for some reason the art of building large double hulled craft was lost in NZ.
      
      The Maori were no more lost than the Vikings were in discovering Iceland, Greenland, and Newfoundland. That is the original explorers may have been driven some distance by bad weather or whatever, but they had some idea where they got to and how to return.
      
      They were pretty accomplished seafarers.
      
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      October 27, 2020 11:22am
      - Jack5
        
        The Polynesians were fine and brave seafarers, but they had limited navigation tools.
        
        Is there any evidence proving two-way voyaging? Perhaps population growth collapsed local resources and people just moved on looking for the next islands to colonise, often against currents and tacking against prevailing winds.
        
        That Maori were more or less landlocked in New Zealand for centuries seems to lend weight to the theory that the initial migration fleet arrived by chance rather than by plan.
        
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        October 27, 2020 1:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  No family wants a child seized because a social worker is miffed that someone doesn’t meet their personal standards and has a baby to raise.
  
  There is tut-tutting here about unwed Maori mothers, but our PM is unwed. The only difference is she has a paid job. We cannot expect fertile young women who are otherwise unemployable not to take up govt-supported motherhood as an occupational choice. Many are not capable of getting a NCEA level-2 meal ticket and naturally fall into the beneficiary category.
  We need more imagination in work creation opportunities. Why can’t people who can’t get level-2 have opportunities like horticulture, fruit picking, labourers… There seems too much attention to academic credit and not enough to societal needs. How useful is Greek History, Art & Literature?
  Life at College is turning into advanced baby-sitting with kids being severely bored. Girls may enjoy the social milieu but boys are not being satisfied. Schools should be concerned with occupational training.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:26am
  - crikey
    
    “Why can’t people who can’t get level-2 have opportunities like horticulture, fruit picking, labourers… ”
    
    These opportunities aleady exist. The important question is ‘why don’t people take them up?’ The answer is ‘it’s too hard and I’m doing very nicely on welfare thank you’.
    
    29 2
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    October 27, 2020 9:37am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Everyone had the chance to attend state schools. Parents can get a lot of help through schools actually if they ask. It’s a choice to get pregnant and creat children you can’t afford while plunging them into poverty, taking no responsibility. If some of us can plan our lives why can’t the rest no matter what race they are?. Anyone is free to look for a job at 16 years old. You can even start a in a trade with no experience,you just need the right attitude and work ethic which costs nothing.
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:11am
    - Jack5
      
      Some day, perhaps, we’ll even have trade schools of seamanship to provide crews for trawlers, freighters and ferries of this island country.
      
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      October 27, 2020 10:33am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Without NCEA 2 most are nobodies and work is no that readily available. The massive immigration is no help.
      
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      October 27, 2020 1:00pm
- Catgurl13
  
  That would make Maori answerable to no one. Maori already cannot fix their family problems themselves. If they could they would sort it in their own families without it going public,and they wouldn’t have police involved for safety reasons. Police have to attend deaths of all people,it’s just that Maori deaths happen to be deaths of children at the hands of their own family or defacto partners.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:33am
  - RJ
    
    Right, because white kids arent raped and killed by white relatives and parents. Your racism is disgusting.
    
    2 26
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    October 27, 2020 11:12am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Maori are the racist ones wanting special treatment for their race,yet they can’t seem to solve their own problems now. I’m not being racist I’m being honest. Why should we change our laws because someone is Maori?. Get with the game.
      
      19 2
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      October 27, 2020 11:29am
      - RJ
        
        Bullshit, you don’t know any Maori do you, because the Maori I grew up with work their butts off and own their businesses. You come here every day posting your anti Maori bullshit and it speaks more of the vile human you are than Maori. People like you are only ever part of the problem, never the solution.
        
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        October 27, 2020 1:44pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      RJ: Wilful myopia is of no help.
      
      10 1
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      October 27, 2020 1:07pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Any system that treats people differently because of their ethnicity is racist. Separate facilities is racist.
  
  The problem is not that the NZ system does not cater for Maori or fails Maori; it is that Maori do not recognise the system and fail to honour the (wider) system.
  
  It does not require a village to raise a child. It requires a loving and caring family. Not working and therefore not earning enough to even contemplate having a child, let alone having 1,2,3 or more, is neither loving nor caring.
  
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  October 27, 2020 3:09pm
Swifty

Attention Maggy W:

Norwood?
4 1
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October 27, 2020 8:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  1 Norwood
  
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  October 27, 2020 11:40am
MCos

https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1320770226091425792?s=21
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October 27, 2020 9:02am
- Inandout
  
  MCos, pathetic video, even by your standards.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:26am
  - Batman
    
    I see humour is dead for the final week of the campaign.
    
    Hurt feelings abound!
    
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    October 27, 2020 11:33am
mikenmildagain

She is brilliant. I was just re-watching ‘How to person man woman camera TV’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8oaaP68i4s&ab_channel=SarahCooper
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October 27, 2020 9:13am
Batman

I won’t stir too much today, I promise, but this is too funny not to post.

For anyone who is wondering why the Biden Crime Family line is not having much effect…

“Do you think Joe Biden and his family are corrupt?
Yes 40%
No 47%
.
Do you think Donald Trump and his family are corrupt?
Yes 55%
No 35%”

@YouGovAmerica/@YahooNews, RV, 10/23-25
https://t.co/ETiOUbPPPt
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October 27, 2020 9:54am
- WaynelSexton
  
  The fact you believe the polls is hilarious.
  
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  October 27, 2020 9:59am
  - Batman
    
    What, just because some State polls were out of the margin of error in an election that was right on the margin of error, we’re supposed to never believe another poll on anything ever?
    
    Delusional stuff.
    
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    October 27, 2020 10:17am
    - virtualmark
      
      Batman you’re only supposed to believe in the polls that align with what you want to happen.
      
      But if the polls are telling you something uncomfortable then clearly those polls are fake.
      
      They used to talk about Steve Jobs having a reality distortion field, but when he died it passed to the GOP.
      
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      October 27, 2020 4:37pm
      - Batman
        
        Or a Rasmussen poll, apparently
        
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        October 27, 2020 4:49pm
- David George
  
  There’s no need to wonder Batman, the Biden story has been expunged or excused by the media, even here in NZ.
  Why that should be is the question worth pondering.
  
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  October 27, 2020 10:09am
  - Batman
    
    Because it’s flimsier than a house of damp cards?
    
    Even the NYPost newsroom has filed stories which pick a million holes in it.
    
    3 25
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    October 27, 2020 10:10am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Aww get real,Biden is a crook and so is his son. It’s only now those rumours have been confirmed. He has been caught out.
      
      21 2
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      October 27, 2020 10:14am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Even the NYPost journalists who worked on the story did not want their names attached to it.
      
      5 22
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      October 27, 2020 10:24am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Funny thing is, the MSM spent more time researching who did or didn’t write the story at the NYP than they have spent finding out if the story itself is factual.
        
        And they lie so often about it I for one would not believe that story about the NYP, it’s sourced to anonymous people after all.
        
        It isn’t actually in much doubt that it’s Hunter’s laptops and data. And it all dates back from well before Joe was the candidate. Dropped off for data recovery in April 2019, forfeited in August 2019 after no response. Notified to the FBI in September, taken under GJ subpoena in January 2020. Not released to Giuliani eat al until September 2020. So u less the Russians are time travellers or remarkably prescient, no opening for them to interfere despite Joe’s fake denials. Putin prefers Biden anyway, Biden’s energy plans will give the Russian economy a huge boost.
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:44am
      - Batman
        
        Finding out where it came from and who pushed it is a key part of verifying a story, it is not?
        
        So what your dates tell us is that all this happened during a time period when Rudy was digging around with his Ukrainian oligarch buddies and disgruntled corrupt officials, and the whole Burisma story was being cooked up?
        
        Given the Russians have been causing mischief since 2015/16, it’s entirely consistent that related actors and their stooges (Rudy) have material dating back that far.
        
        But this won’t matter to you. You’ll keep using the language of Trumpland to justify anything you like, and ignore anything you don’t by calling it ‘fake’. Amateur hour.
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:51am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Wake up Batman, and see what a ridiculous line you are trying to run with.
        
        Here’s the nub, do you think it is HB’s laptop or not ?
        
        – Dropped off by HB, repair person has a reasonable ID but being “legally blind” (which doesn’t mean one can’t see at all, but has limited sight capabilities) isn’t likely to be taken as 100% certain;
        – Work contract signed and has the same forms and shapes as HB signature;
        – HB lawyer actually called to ask for it back, and was refused but did email to acknowledge a conversation;
        – Has numerous photos of a pretty personal nature, unlikely to be fake; how would one compile a photo of HB asleep with a crack pipe, if completely composed artificially that should be easy to demonstrate.
        – Contains emails and other data that has been corroborated by recipients as being real. Are those people ALL Russian agents, Bobulinski and others ?
        
        So maybe it is a fake assembled by “Russians”, then surely the easiest out for the Bidens is to say that, that it isn’t Hunters Laptop, or that the data is faked. They have not said that; they have said that it is “Russian Disinformation” as a general term. Why has no one asked them that easy question ? If faked it is probably easy to show, bring out an original email chain and show the differences, that sort of thing.
        
        There’s another way to tell as well, get the laptop serial number and trace the purchase and any possible Apple Care details. MSM even tried that ?
        
        Occams razor says it’s Hunters, and that the data is real. The question then is, how damaging is the data. And that one email where Burisma dude is demanding action to quash legal action against “Nikolay” as a known condition of the agreement with Hunter is pretty bad, given that Joe intervened and the problems did indeed, go away.
        
        So can you explain why you think it isn’t real ? Apart from muttering about far out conspiracies with Giuliani carried out well BEFORE Joe was a candidate ?
        
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        October 27, 2020 1:56pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Dropped off by someone pretending to be Hunter Biden. And not hard for a trained intelligence operative to fake a signature.
        
        Disk image based on a hacked Time Machine backup, but salted with faked emails and messages courtesy of Russian intelligence.
        
        Shopped in the Ukraine to Rudy G and his helpers as early as April/May 2019.
        
        Subject of clear warnings from both the CIA and FBI to senior politicians.
        
        Not made available for independent verification by any reputable news entity.
        
        Finally written up by Murdoch’s tabloid, the NY Post.
        
        Not touched by any other *news* entity, including the major papers and *Fox News* (covered by Hannity & Tucker, as “commentators” but not by Fox New’s own newsroom … in legal proceedings Fox News has claimed that Hannity & Tucker are not journalists and are not held to journalistic standards, but are “commentators” who use “exaggeration and non-literal commentary”).
        
        Subsequently found that even the NY Post newsroom didn’t want their names on the story.
        
        And then the voters at large just went *yaaawwwwwnnnn”. Only the feverish are pushing a “Biden corruption” angle.
        
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        October 27, 2020 4:46pm
    - Fletch
      
      Explain exactly how the story is flimsy? There is more evidence there than was used to impeach Trump.
      
      For a start – the laptop. It can’t be denied that it is Hunter Biden’s. He signed for it himself. His lawyers emailed and phoned asking for it back. It’s filled with photos of him performed lewd sex acts and smoking a crack pipe. As well as the damning emails, many of which have been confirmed by the recipients of those mails. Joe Biden hasn’t denied it is his son’s – and hasn’t been asked whether it is his son’s either (typical media). He just brushes it off broadly as “a smear” and “Russian disinformation” without their being any evidence for such. Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe said the emails are ‘not part’ of a Russian disinformation campaign. Saying otherwise is simply “not true” and that they haven’t briefed Congress on any such thing.
      
      Secondly, it lines up perfectly with Joe Biden blackmailing the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor looking in to the corrupt company his son Hunter was working for. He did this by threatening to withhold billions in US aid money unless the prosecutor was fired, and “son of a bitch” he was.
      The subsequent prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko has said that U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch gave him a ‘do not prosecute’ list during their first meeting. And Burisma was on the list.
      
      Thirdly, we have actual witnesses – former Hunter Biden business partners Bevan Cooney and Tony Bobulinski who have independently handed over emails and texts detailing the dealings of the Bidens with China, Russia et al.
      
      It’s obvious the Bidens were selling access to Joe Biden while he was VP for millions of dollars.
      
      None of this has been debunked, or is likely to be. There is too much evidence.
      
      What is it with Democrats and selling their influence? Hillary and Bill did it as well, while she was Secretary of State, Bill getting paid millions of dollars for “speaking fees” in Russia which all stopped once Hillary was not in that position any more.
      
      Corrupt to the core.
      
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      October 27, 2020 10:32am
      - Batman
        
        This is the problem with the conspiracy, it requires the reader to be totally inside the echo-chamber of the conservative media bubble.
        
        None of what you just said makes any sense to anyone normal. None of the ‘facts’ you laid out have been confirmed beyond opinion pieces and smears by Rudy.
        
        As MM said, even the NYPost newsroom wouldn’t put their names to it. So they had to give it to Sean Hannity’s former guest booker to do it.
        
        You even mention the old Ukraine prosecutor angle, which has been proven wrong so many times that at this point anyone who brings it up is really just demonstrating their ability to suspend reality.
        
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        October 27, 2020 11:38am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Hunter Biden – a total mess of a human – has zero value to all these foreign companies he was taking huge money off except as a source of control over US govt policy. There is simply no other reasonable explanation. There is incontrovertible evidence that he was extracting money from sketchy companies in precisely the areas that Biden was engaging in foreign policy initiatives – even travelling with the “big guy” in many cases, with clear evidence of favorable political interference from Biden (burisma prosecutor fired etc). The paper trails are growing as people dig into the released info – and that will only continue to snowball. No reasonable person can pretend that there isn’t prima-facie evidence of serious corruption, certainly far more so than in Trumps impeachment, so the lack of deeper investigation and prosecution is just clear evidence of serious corruption at highest levels.
        
        54% of US voters now believe Biden is dirty:
        https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2020/most_say_biden_hunter_business_connection_likely
        
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        October 27, 2020 2:30pm
      - virtualmark
        
        The Bobulinski story was completely debunked in the Wall Street Journal … the same paper that was supposed to carry the smear.
        
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        October 27, 2020 4:47pm
- Surely Knott
  
  With those polls the left will be able to get rid of George once and for all! . George George ahhhh…..oh nope that was the president two terms ago. Ahhhhh now What’s the current guys name? Anyone.
  
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  October 27, 2020 7:33pm
Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass

NASA finds water on the moon’s surface.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/300142504/nasa-finds-water-on-the-moons-surface
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October 27, 2020 10:21am
- sooty
  
  Astronaut pissed on the moonlanders leg, because there was no tree!
  
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  October 27, 2020 12:31pm
  - kowtow
    
    Moonlander ?
    
    Most likely it’s the studio water cooler leaking……
    
    4 3
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    October 27, 2020 3:44pm
Catgurl13

Interestingly now the Muslims want Jacinda and Megan to solve their infighting over the money donated. Now these people think we owe them a life here. They want endless life funding and Islamic schools built for themselves. So much for integrating and being independent here.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/123068130/hardship-grants-climb-for-march-15-victims-while-2m-in-donations-remain-untouched
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October 27, 2020 10:32am
- sooty
  
  How many went home after the Chch trial!
  
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  October 27, 2020 12:32pm
  - RJ
    
    All of them. But I know that doesn’t fit some of your agendas.
    
    2 8
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    October 27, 2020 1:33pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Incorrect.
      
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      October 27, 2020 8:51pm
  - Paulus
    
    I have asked this a number of times and do not expect a reply !
    
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    October 27, 2020 1:55pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/123210177/police-officer-shot-at-in-northland-hunt-under-way-for-alleged-offenders
Do police vehicles have dashcams on at all times?
Why is a lone policeman in a car at 4am ?
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October 27, 2020 10:35am
- oldfella
  
  Greybeard: I assume it’s a lone, male, officer, but the story just talks about ‘the officer’. Would this story be even more horrifying if it were a lone, FEMALE, officer?
  And how much longer can we continue sending out unarmed cops? I think the time has come to issue sidearms to all frontline officers.
  
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  October 27, 2020 11:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And never mind the 9mm. Make it a 44
    
    3 1
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    October 27, 2020 5:25pm
oldfella

Had to happen…
Cricket Australia has been told the game is seen as a “white privileged sport”, as the governing body wrestles with how to recognise the Black Lives Matter movement.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/white-privileged-sport-australian-cricket-confronts-race-issues-20201023-p56834.html
Same problem in NZ I guess. We could start by banning all white uniforms at test, club, or school level. That would include white pads and/or boots.
And no more of that racist ‘white’ zinc some players use as sun block.
All teams should now play in rainbow uniforms and to be really inclusive, our women’s teams should welcome all ‘men-who-feel-like women’ into their squads.
Anyone else got any other woke ideas? 😉
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October 27, 2020 11:32am
- greybeard
  
  Has anyone asked the players from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,South Africa, West Indies, England etc about this ?
  Especially the IPL players.
  
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  October 27, 2020 12:03pm
  - oldfella
    
    Good point, greybeard. I think some of those IPL players are definitely ‘not’ white!
    BTW, have the IPL teams been ‘taking a knee’ before matches in support of BLM? If not, why not?
    
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    October 27, 2020 12:33pm
Fletch

“Santa could potentially infect every household on Earth this Christmas, but no one wants to talk about it” ?
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October 27, 2020 11:35am
Sacha

We sat in the sun yesterday and discussed our country’s political future.
One question that arose: what would it take to overthrow the government by way of citizen action?
Is there any legislation?
Any suggestions?
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October 27, 2020 11:40am
- Batman
  
  Citizen petition and CIR to the GG.
  However given the current government has a broad mandate, you wouldn’t get the signatures, votes, or the agreement of the GG to dissolve the government.
  
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  October 27, 2020 11:52am
- RJ
  
  At some point people need to put their big boy and girl pants on and get on with life. We lost the election, move on and win the next one. This wa wa wa what can we do to get rid of this government Reminds me of the Democrats.
  
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  October 27, 2020 1:32pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Are you sure you weren’t out in the sun too long, Sacha?
  The people love and trust Jacinda – end of story.
  Whether that is fully warranted is irrelevant.
  And even if such an overthrow were to succeed, who the hell would replace Jacinda and her merry band of social activists?
  Not National – they can’t even govern themselves at the moment.
  No, we are stuck with what we have got and most people are thrilled about it. Might be different if the money runs out – but can just print some more.
  Fixed.
  
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  October 27, 2020 1:44pm
- Isobar
  
  Participating in an election?
  
  7 0
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  October 27, 2020 2:20pm
- cmm
  
  ” Any suggestions?”
  
  Talk to your party of choice and tell them to get their arse into gear for 2023.
  
  As much as Jacinda won it for the Jacinda Party, National threw this one away.
  
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  October 27, 2020 2:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Can’t have a Civil War – she took away our guns.
  ‘First they came for the guns’ where have I heard that before?
  
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  October 27, 2020 5:29pm
cmm

Herald says “Hurrah to companies giving people more time off”.

Well maybe.

The only way that companies can afford to give people more time off is by charging you more for their products.

The company is not giving the people tine off – you are.
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October 27, 2020 11:44am
Sacha

People are raving about the Social Dilemma doco. Then I looked on youtube – and there are several ‘why you shouldn’t bother watching this stupid programme’- type short videos.
Who is manipulating who(m)?
PS: I haven’t watched the doc, and only the intros of a couple of the don’t-watch vids. Neither appeal.
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October 27, 2020 11:46am
- oldfella
  
  Sacha, the Social Dilemma doc is well worth a watch. Especially if you have kids in the family who are addicted to social media. A very good reminder of how what seem like great ideas can often have unintended consequences, especially for unwary consumers.
  
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  October 27, 2020 12:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

1 day-old baby attacked by dog has died.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/429224/baby-in-hospital-after-dog-attack-in-hamilton-dies
17 1
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October 27, 2020 11:53am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXpZF61lNFA

Vaccine Trials Resume.

After a FDA review, AstraZeneca has been permitted to
Continue its vaccine development process in the USA.
1 2
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October 27, 2020 12:16pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSGMljWFRao

Trumps Chinese Bank Account.

The Trump organization did some business in China. They
haven’t done much business for a while. You need an
account to do business there. No smoke, no fire.
12 2
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October 27, 2020 12:16pm
- Batman
  
  Where did the 2017 $15 million payment come from? What was it for? Why was it drawn down to the main Trump Org account?
  
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  October 27, 2020 2:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Chris Chappell? Really. His TDS is severe. When he mentions names like Maddow, you can take it with a 40 foot container load of salt
  
  3 3
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  October 27, 2020 5:42pm
I remember when

Define Maori.
Broadly Maori fall into two categories.
The first, consider themselves Maori, whether they would be recognised as Maori or not.
In the second group are those whose appearance leads people to recognise them as Maori. They are Maori whether they think they are or not.
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October 27, 2020 1:25pm
- cmm
  
  Third category: are Maori but that doesn’t define them and they realize that to have a successful life they need to be in the same boat as other successful people.
  
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  October 27, 2020 2:19pm
Batman

Trump today at his rally in Allentown, PA: “By the way, nice trucks. You think I could hop into one of them and drive it away? I’d love to do it. Just drive the hell outta here. Just get the hell out of this. I had such a good life. My life was great.”

Things are going great!! Trump landslide ahead!
9 4
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October 27, 2020 2:16pm
- All_on_Red
  
  “We’ve built the best Voter Fraud organisation in the country”
  The Big Guy
  
  Hey, George Lopez for four more years!
  
  6 2
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  October 27, 2020 7:15pm
Fletch

Trump hots the official swearing in of Amy Coney Barrett.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeY5LIT8z9U

ACB is the new RBG.
6 2
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October 27, 2020 2:38pm
- Fletch
  
  *hosts*
  
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  October 27, 2020 2:57pm
- Batman
  
  That comparison is fairly fucked up.
  
  Or it reflects the fucked up state of US conservatism.
  
  2 9
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  October 27, 2020 4:38pm
mandk

Congratulations to soon-to-be Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett.
11 3
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October 27, 2020 2:43pm
I remember when

Why do so many of the anti teaching religion in schools proponents seem to have read so much of the bible?
I doubt that most of those who attended a school with any sort of religious study programme have read a great deal of the bible.
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October 27, 2020 2:56pm
- Mike
  
  The bible is a very well-known text of great literary and cultural significance. So it is unsurprising that educated people have some familiarity with it, regardless of personal beliefs.
  
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  October 27, 2020 6:12pm
cmm

More CV19 fear porn.

We keep on hearing bullshit reports of how CV19 is different, then some medic familiar with the area says it’s nothing new. This keeps on happening.

* CV19 droplets are different and the virus spreads differently. Naah, bullshit. A virus is very tiny, millions can fit in a small drop. They do not change the droplet in any way. A droplet with SARS-COV-2 virus in it is no different to a droplet with any other virus in it.
* Ground glass opacity: ooh terrible it turns your lungs into mush that looks like ground glass. Nope, that’s not what GGO means.
* CV19 is making kids get these never-seen-before micro clots in their toes. Actually, pediatricians say it’s fairly common.
And now, in Israel some bloke is having some brain issue. No doubt in a few days someone is going to tell us it’s actually either unrelated or common with other diseases.

Now I’m not going to say they are deliberately fearmongering, but if they were they would do nothing different.
12 2
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October 27, 2020 4:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

On Nov 1st the US set their clocks back.
On Nov 3rd they take their Country back
3 4
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October 27, 2020 6:00pm
- Mike
  
  By voting out the incumbent president? I didn’t expect such perspicaity from you, Stevie.
  
  2 2
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  October 27, 2020 6:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Come see me Nov 4th (NZ time) Mike.
    
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    October 28, 2020 7:55am
- cha
  
  On Nov 3rd they take their Country back
  
  Well it is tRump’s to lose.
  /
  
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  October 27, 2020 6:39pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/123217485/americas-cup-brazilian-designer-claims-patent-for-ac75-canting-foils
The only surprise here is that he comes from Brazil and not Nigeria.
3 2
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October 27, 2020 6:16pm
RJ

An interesting interview with Robert Cahaly from the Trafalgar Group

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04nqez0IvvY&feature=emb_logo
4 1
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October 27, 2020 7:32pm

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