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October 18, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 October 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

When you reward the incompetent you get more incompetence. When you applaud Marxists you get more Marxism. When you usher back racists you get more racism.

When people like David Clark and Phil Twyford are returned, and people like Chris Bishop are shown the door it make me certain that NZ has lost its way.
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October 18, 2020 8:02am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Bishop will be back in on the list. He got beaten by 2200 in the electorate which is far less of a drubbing that many of his National mates received in electorates that should have been much safer than Hutt South.
  He will hold the hopeless Ginny Anderson to account and will very much a rising star in the resurgent National Party.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:09am
  - PhilBest
    
    You’re hopeful! Is National going to “go Trump” or go even more Tweedledee Labour Lite?
    
    I will believe that National will reverse Jacinda’s inevitable lunacies of the next 3 years, when I see them do it. I more expect them to repeat the Key performance, of being the Clark government’s 4th, 5th and 6th terms. We will have a nice popular new PM Luxton (or someone), and we will continue to have embedded forever, oil and gas bans, free speech gone, a gutted farming sector, small businesses a thing of the past, State Housing on steroids, borrow, print money, spend and hope, half the country directly dependent on the State for income, systematized mis-education of children, etc etc
    
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    October 18, 2020 8:19am
    - Chris R
      
      I agree. By the way his name is LUXON while the frivolous woman who won the Rangitata seat is LUXTON. Having said that Christopher Luxon may not be a stayer in Parliament once he actually gets there. I say keep Judith Collins for the next 3 years!
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:00am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    AndersEn is genuinely popular in Hutt South. Sure, she benefits from her party’s huge popularity, but she has been very active locally.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:17am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Sorry about the typo.
      If Andersen has been ‘very active’ there must be about 15 Chris Bishops all over the place.
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:56am
      - PhilBest
        
        Not for nothing is he nicknamed “Mr Everywhere Man”
        
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        October 18, 2020 10:48am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I’ve just chatted with a relative of Chris. I learned that out on the campaign trail, door knocking or on the streets, Chris would regularly come across residents who had no idea they could vote for him and also party vote Labour. Their belief was that ‘to vote Labour’ meant they had to select both the Labour candidate and tick The NZ Labour party .. “or it didn’t count”. In 2020. Amazing really.
    
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    October 18, 2020 3:45pm
- PhilBest
  
  National deserves permanent oblivion over the way it has sold out on principle; the crowning travesty was licking Jacinda’s boots over “doing a good job over Covid-19”. They could not possibly have achieved a worse result had they gone on the attack right from the start over the lockdown policy, especially given the abundance of experts, including official, Ministry of Health ones, whose advice they were ignoring over a narrow cabal of alarmists including Bloomfield, and, one of the world’s worst, Hendy. Hendy is NZ’s equivalent of the charlatans who said Sweden would have 120,000 dead.
  
  It is impossible now in October, to accept that these alarmists are incompetent. They are conspirators in a crime against humanity. The final straw is the way PCR tests are being misused and abused to terrorize people, when high numbers of PCR test positives are MOSTLY people who have recovered from an infection they were unaware of at some stage since January!
  
  There is in fact a global network of doctors and lawyers bringing legal action on this very basis, against some of the national Health Officials who are knowingly doing this with PCR test outcome statistics, terrorizing the public by presenting them as a NEW “second wave”.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:12am
  - Debsta
    
    Mmm 7-5 to the downtickers Phil, when all you say is true of course. I’m hoping its KBers just disagreeing that National would have done any better electorally had they been recommending a more nuanced response to Covid, which is probably correct given the sheeples support of the wreckage. If the downtickers are disagreeing with anything else you’re saying I despair!
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:20am
  - SPC
    
    Crazy bear chocolate fish catch of the day.
    
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    October 18, 2020 10:13am
    - PhilBest
      
      Sooooo, you are one of the ones who claim YOU are pro “science” but PCR test results “ARE a second wave” and anyone who says otherwise is a “conspiracy theorist”? That isn’t science, it means YOU are a Stalinist.
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:51am
      - SPC
        
        Using the term, Stalinist, in that context looks like crayon on white board.
        
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        October 18, 2020 10:57am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    The post of a lost space cadet. The election result came about in a good part because of public appreciation of how Covid is being handled. When the Nats attacked it they quickly learned they were using the wrong tactics. If you don’t understand that go join Rossy baby and the other tin foilers.
    
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    October 18, 2020 11:14am
- IC5000
  
  Bishop is young(ish) and he has his whole life ahead of him. We were contemporaries at law school so I have no doubt he has the ability to land on his feet in whatever career he chooses. He was an outstanding advocate for his electorate and hopefully will be back at some point.
  
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  October 18, 2020 12:41pm
  - TheGordyEffect
    
    Surely Bishop is not going anywhere. He remains an MP, doing the same job, except as a list MP and not an electorate one.
    
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    October 18, 2020 2:28pm
    - IC5000
      
      You’re right, looks like he made it.
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:18am
- theoldbloke
  
  The most sensible media bit I have read today.
  National should be sitting back, regrouping and preparing for 3 years hence when the all talk no walk leader has had her feet put to the fire.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/428615/comment-total-power-total-responsibility-jacinda-holds-both-in-her-hands-after-2020-election
  
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  October 18, 2020 1:57pm
vt

I weep for New Zealand.
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October 18, 2020 8:03am
- jon
  
  NZ silly little country at times!
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:41pm
krazykiwi

Today is the day Labour will start cashing the blank cheque it has been issued. No policy obligations, no promises to deliver on. Just a mandate to do whatever the hell they want, without restraint. Buckle up, New Zealand.
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October 18, 2020 8:09am
- PhilBest
  
  Buckle, up, the minority who will be the Long Marcher’s targets for the next 3 years. The rest don’t care, including most National MP’s. They won’t stick up for you. If they wouldn’t stick up for you over Covid-19 tyranny, they won’t stick up for you over anything. Expect Jacinda to go full retard “woke”, looking to score brownie points from the global progressive movement including the media. But will National stick up for, say, online posters making fair criticisms of something like official bad faith over a “pandemic”, getting arrested and fined and even jailed? NZ has until now actually not been as bad as that Andrews rotter in Victoria, but what is Jacinda not capable of, with a “mandate”, and the whole world’s progressive movement crowning her as their icon?
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:27am
  - SPC
    
    Where were you when the Advance Party was Deer Hunting for credible electorate candidates for Auckland Central.
    
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    October 18, 2020 10:15am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Phil and KK were right at the front of the queue but even the Advance has its limits.
      
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      October 18, 2020 11:16am
- Ruawai
  
  I notice a lot of the new Labour MPs are bureaucrats and policy writers rather than people with any real world business experience .
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:38am
  - PhilBest
    
    So what’s new?
    
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    October 18, 2020 10:52am
- The Boss
  
  Ihumatao is high on the list. Will be “resolved” soon.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:22am
burt

Where are the “not my PM” protests today?
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October 18, 2020 8:09am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Here’s one.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:10am
- Observer of Life
  
  Burt: The fear has already begun?
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:10am
  - burt
    
    Not for me, I’ve got a good accountant that I’m happy to pay well.
    
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    October 18, 2020 1:23pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Let’s please not be antidemocratic and unconstitutional here. Jacinda is our Prime Minister. She has been duly elected to that position in a democratic process which was properly carried out. There is nothing to “protest” about.
  
  Not voting for her is your absolute right. Saying that you don’t like the result, that’s a reasonable position to take. Watching carefully to see whether she and her Government do in fact govern in the interests of all New Zealanders and not just to reward the ones who voted for her, that is entirely appropriate.
  
  But there are no grounds to claim that she is not truly the Prime Minister.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:30am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    She built on the fairy dust that she was given last time by Winston. She should never have been in that position.
    
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    October 18, 2020 8:49am
    - calendar girl
      
      From my perspective, the most welcome outcome of yesterday’s General Election result was the banishment from our Parliament of Winston Peters and his NZ First Party.
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:13am
      - gorse
        
        Calendar girl, I try to focus on the positives from yesterday. NZ First gone. Peters and Jones. Then JL Ross also looking for work. Another person I am glad to see out is Tamati Coffey. These help ease the pain, but only a little.
        
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        October 18, 2020 2:31pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      True, but that was last time. This time she has won the election herself.
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:36am
      - mark15
        
        She and the media party.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:13am
      - Tall Man
        
        Only by completely silencing her caucus to conceal the idiots from the public.
        
        The candidate in Otaki has hardly been seen yet she has been elected. Go figure.
        
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        October 18, 2020 12:46pm
  - burt
    
    That’s my point. People who didn’t vote for slogans will just carry on unlike the cry baby stuff we see from the left when they don’t get the result they wanted from democracy.
    
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    October 18, 2020 8:51am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You actually sound like a cry baby with that: “oh, we’re better losers than them.”
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:18am
      - Jack5
        
        Milky talking about cry babies.
        
        There’s irony! ?
        
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        October 18, 2020 9:27am
      - burt
        
        No argument about it being a vote for slogans?
        
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        October 18, 2020 9:30am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Burt’s been sooking up all night he confuses the left and right vote with the middle – which Labour did not, and that is where they will stay.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:18am
  - Tall Man
    
    If I present you with a false CV and you appoint me based upon that CV then would that not be fraudulent? arden’s CV is fraudulent.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:26am
    - sam green
      
      Hey Shorty. The left won resoundingly. You lost. Good job. For the last 3 years I’ve watch you and Farrar be utter creeps about Ardern. Schadenfreude. (Shardenfreud). Ha!
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:25am
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m not sure if your position is due to stupidity, ignorance or just blind adherence to an outdated ideology.
        
        I labelled ardern a liar in 2017. I still stand by that assertion and there are numerous clear examples of that and unless you are blind and refuse to see. If pointing that out makes me a creep in your mind then says quite a lot about you, none of it flattering.
        
        As to David and I losing, I’m not sure how David feels but I haven’t lost at all. My wealth will increase over the next three should ardern and her team of dropkicks last that long. labour is always good to my business and we are very tax efficient so based on their inability to run a pissup in a brewery I shall emerge in 2023 in a better position than now.
        
        It is New Zealand that has lost but, thankfully many of the losers are like you and haven’t got a fucking clue about what is coming. Enjoy the storm coming and let’s see if you are still dancing in 2023.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:23am
    - Humble Capitalist
      
      Like telling Hosking that she understands small business because she ran an NGO – the socialist youth group
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    There are plenty of grounds to challenge her rightful authority but she has trapped herself. I won’t comment on the deception, lack of integrity, treating of voters, bribery of media, super-regal authority, pride, manipulation, hidden PR, bullying, fear, denial of freedom, theft of Ihumatao, promotion of a false god, belief in her supreme ability…
    
    Pride precedes a fall and there are several lined up. Do these amateurs believe they will outlive the next twelve months as govt?
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:30am
    - Harriet
      
      “…..Pride precedes a fall and there are several lined up. Do these amateurs believe they will outlive the next twelve months as govt?….”
      
      You forgot hypocrisy in the list:
      
      She is solving the housing crisis as owners are now going to holiday in NSW, score a job and rent their kiwi house out for whatever they can get.
      
      Half of those will be arseholes, and going to Canberra. 😎
      
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      October 18, 2020 12:00pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Thanks Harriet for the addendum. I’m not perfect.
        
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        October 18, 2020 1:18pm
  - jaysper
    
    Agreed.
    This government is the most incompetent since (and possibly before) Muldoon, but they are still sadly the government.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:42am
  - david
    
    Apart from the voters in her electorate, in theory absolutely no-one voted for Jacinda Adern, they voted for the Labour Party and a bunch of individual (though related) candidates.
    The Party will now proceed to select it’s parliamentary leader and the leading candidate (nay, the only candidate I would suggest) happens to be J Adern.
    That is the theory anyhow but we have now seen a new level of personality politics that is difficult to comprehend. Perhaps it is a flow-on effect of the global attention given to the US situation, perhaps it is the result of the credence given to “stars” who fatuously endorse people, parties and policies. Perhaps it is the result of an intellectual vacuum created by isolation and lockdowns. I don’t know but there is certainly fertile ground for social research and outfits like Curia for a few years to come to try and pin down the triggers for this shift.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:49am
    - Sacha
      
      @ david.
      I disagree. Everyone voted FOR the rock-star PM – actual government and policy weren’t considered. It was a show of gratitude for saving us.
      The under 40’s have been reared on peace and plenty – credit card wealth maybe, but they have absolutely no concept of what can happen when the currency collapses and NZ cannot pay its bills.
      Let’s hope the PM can save us from that fate.
      
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      October 18, 2020 2:18pm
- Inandout
  
  burt, not my President will suffice.. they are coming..well maybe..
  https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f8b31204eb99611d5f11b32
  So long as the Hollywood pedos and Epstein escapees aren’t amongst the exodus.
  
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  October 18, 2020 11:45am
Observer of Life

KK: Agree. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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October 18, 2020 8:09am
CaptainCompromise

Hate speech, more taxes, wealth redistribution, eradication of deer and tahr in nz, more regulation, a war against private mobility, more regulation, less common sense, more authoritarianism, more regulation, decreasing productivity, the destruction of our primary industry, more regulation, no one is individually responsible for anything except being always responsible for the collective, more division, less unity, anything you can think of can and will be under state control of for public safety and/or the environment, free thinking is a danger. Nothing is safe. Enjoy it while it lasts. Welcome to our brave new world.
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October 18, 2020 8:10am
- krazykiwi
  
  Remember that Kiwiblog moderation was forced on DPF under this government, a period which also saw the media brazenly purchased as a state propaganda vehicle. Anyone here think places like Kiwiblog won’t be in the cross-hairs now? Anyone?
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:47am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Yip. It starts with the “outliers,” the “dangerous radicals” posting online. But hey, who cares about them, right? Then it moves on to the “insiders” like KB. The only limiting principle is when everyone thinks the same due to an absence of alternative sources of information and forums. If it’s not talked about, did it really happen?
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:00am
    - dcrane
      
      In America they have Twitter and Facebook brazenly suppressing embarrassing news for Biden, before anyone even begins reporting to test the claims. It’s all out in the open now.
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:04am
      - SPC
        
        The Babylon Bee is a busy little bee. And it is now liked as the most reliable of the fake news sites by the real Donald Trump.
        
        I only know this because he managed to tweet it so. Despite being informed that Twitter had been shut down, he tried and he succeeded in getting his tweet published.
        
        And so the reactionary MSM revealed to us a POTUS playing dumb so the MSM could mock him. And all so you hear and believe, via them, his dog whistle that Twitter and other social media were protecting Sleepy Joseph Biden, by not waking him up to the Republican truth. Which is that they need those whites who have not been to college to serve their country, not on foreign fields, as losers, but as winners who vote Donald. For without them they have no job and thus no health insurance and the pandemic will end them.
        
        I know because a deck of cards referred me to The Onion that revealed the ultimate secret of the Oracle of the Matrix. The real neo is a woman and her name is Jacinda …. to be continued.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:40am
      - Inandout
        
        dcrane, this is explosive and may well see those companies broken up. Even thinking Dem politicians are appalled at the North Korean type suppression.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:49am
      - SPC
        
        Short version, there are a lot of narratives that can be created to help people deal with a world in which there are other people who are different, and think differently.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:54am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Why are you slandering DPF?
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:18am
    - Tall Man
      
      Stop bullshit stirring. We all know the type of person you are mikey, there’s no need to reinforce that on a daily basis.
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:28am
  - IC5000
    
    > Remember that Kiwiblog moderation was forced on DPF under this government
    
    No, I believe it was forced on DPF after the Christchurch mosque massacre after the neo-nazi alt right contingent wrote racist rage posts.
    
    I’m sure Ghandi can confirm.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:28am
    - Jack5
      
      My guess is the danger of libel suits was the main cause of Kiwiblog becoming moderated.
      
      Andrew Little has indicated that hate speech laws will be introduced.
      
      That means freedom of speech will be endangered.
      
      In the coming economic maelstrom, Labour or Labour-Greens will likely push tight controls on speech to divert public attention and debate from their economic measures.
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:31am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The introduction of hate speech laws will just give us an excuse to be more careful in our choice of words. Language can be delightfully extensible. I have frequently dodged a whining litigious personage and what is inferred is the readers choice not mine.
        I hope Niu Tirani, A.K.A Owteafrommoa, does not become New Tyranny.
        
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        October 18, 2020 1:30pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Kiwiblog moderation was not ‘forced’ on DPF. He decided to rein in the most outrageous behaviour on his own account. A good move, which prompted some of the craziest to leave the blog altogether. So, a good result all round.
      
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      October 18, 2020 11:05am
      - Inandout
        
        m&m, if some of the craziest people have left then how come you are still here?
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:51am
      - IC5000
        
        I think DPF had to act but whether his hand was forced or not it was something that had to happen sooner or later given the inclination of some here.
        
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        October 18, 2020 12:37pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Yes, it was a reaction to the Mosque attacks. Also Muslims had been attacked on here for a long time and prophecies given as to what would happen in NZ with the Muslim population reached a certain level.
      I think DPF’s reaction was timely.
      
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      October 18, 2020 11:25am
      - Jack5
        
        So, you’re for tighter “hate-speech” legislation, then Brian?
        
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        October 18, 2020 12:21pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Not sure about that.
      
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      October 18, 2020 12:48pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        You are ask a lot of questions for someone without a real name Jack5.
        
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        October 18, 2020 2:17pm
      - Jack5
        
        DPF has always allowed use of pseudonyms on Kiwiblog, Brian. If you want the policy to change, say so.
        
        There is also semi-anonymity in some common forenames and surnames.
        
        How many John Smiths in New Zealand, and would they like to be blamed for each other’s views? Not that I’ve run into more than one Brian McDonald.
        
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        October 18, 2020 9:13pm
  - sam green
    
    [Deleted and a warning – following this line of posting will end in a lengthy ban. Mod.]
    
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    October 18, 2020 10:52am
  - SGA
    
    Remember that Kiwiblog moderation was forced on DPF under this government
    
    That’s not what I remember. As I recall, DPF acted independently and relatively early after the mosque massacre. Perhaps he was acting preemptively anticipating such legislation, but I don’t think so. I think he had a good look at some of the more extreme anti-Muslim rhetoric posted here and what that meant for Kiwiblog’s “brand” (and whether it had become the sort of site he wanted to have his “name” on). NB – I can’t read DPF’s mind so that’s all imho.
    
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    October 18, 2020 2:51pm
I remember when

Let’s be honest from the result short of stealing the ballot boxes National couldn’t have won.
This election had nothing to do with day-to-day politics and everything to do with ‘star’ power.
Only those National Party candidates out in the electorate probably understood what they were up against.
When Ian McKelvie looks like he might lose his seat it that sums it up.
Did National win the vote in a single city or even town?
“Jacinda saved us from coronavirus!”
Nothing changed for the parties from the position at the end of the first lockdown.
National lost their over 60 vote because of coronavirus.
National’s ‘mistakes’ didn’t really change anything: Nothing could.
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October 18, 2020 8:11am
Luke Piewalker

1. National you have abandoned the rural sector and got what you deserved from those voters

2. Your PR campaign is shit. You are taking a knife to a gunfight

3. You let Michael Woodhouse and Nick Smith get back in and let the likes of Megan Hands go.

4. Todd Muller got back in ?

5. Judith Collins showed herself to be someone of real substance.
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October 18, 2020 8:11am
- RJ
  
  Megan Hands was crap, she should never of been selected above people who had huge standing in the community. Her campaign was non existent, they thought it was a safe seat and they paid for it.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:51am
- Brian McDonald
  
  I think Todd Muller’s electorate sent its message very loudly as to who was to be its representative.
  
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  October 18, 2020 11:29am
Justitia

The next three years are going to be very testing for those who cherish true liberal values such as freedom of speech and expression. I hope David Seymour and his new parliamentary team will be at the forefront of the resistance to the erosion of our civil liberties by the Left. National need to rediscover what they stand for and come back stronger than before.
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October 18, 2020 8:12am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Yes, centre-right has to now stand up for free speech. Shows where leftards really stand.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:10am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    The vote came out the middle the ‘tards’ are those that can’t figure that out.
    
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    October 18, 2020 11:30am
Tom Barker

National could rename itself the Regional Party. Or it could try to find a likeable leader.
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October 18, 2020 8:16am
renderer

It will be interesting to see how long it be until the Adern Aura starts disintegrating with the media
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October 18, 2020 8:18am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Why would the aura disintegrate?
  
  The media have everything they want. Why would they deviate from the path that helped destroy the National vote with the added promise of additional funding, how does that settle the pixie dust?
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:57am
- iMP
  
  Already begun. Kelvin Davis confirmed as deputy PM. First mistake by Jacinda within hours.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:57am
- igm
  
  renderer: This will not happen, she has keys to $50m of taxpayers’ money which media need, as the demographic they support do not advertise. No decent company advertises (which is media’s income) with these commercial failures, so they need to be supported.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:59am
- rangitoto
  
  The borrowed cash is running out.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:47am
- RW Capitalist
  
  There will come a day, when all the lies will collapse under their own weight, and truth will again triumph.
  Lets hope Goebbels was right.
  After all, this one is strangely reminiscent of Ardern
  If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
  
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  October 18, 2020 1:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Another $50M will fix that. The trouble is that they don’t have $50M, its pinched from exploitation of Parliament budget processes. The Reserve Bank is printing to order so apart from having to deal with imported inflation we are well on the way to making our own.
  I won’t counsel the new Opposition, the bullies have straitjacketed them so they will need to learn to operate below ground.
  
  I expect justice and retribution in due course. It may have already arrived. This monster landslide may encourage their self worth to the point of blindness as to their job. They are out of their depth and the drowning will not be pleasant. I will be surprised if they last 12 months. An international tsunami is highly likely.
  ☑️☑️We will return☑️☑️
  
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  October 18, 2020 1:46pm
JibberJabber

What can you say? A Landslide victory for Labour on the back of a 3 year term where they delivered nothing except incompetence, failure and inadequacy.
A stunning result in more ways than one.
Stock up on Toilet paper, cos’ that was the first sign Venezuela was up shit creek…
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October 18, 2020 8:20am
- cmm
  
  “A Landslide victory for Labour on the back of a 3 year term where they delivered nothing except incompetence, failure and inadequacy.”
  
  That’s because they were not selling competence or success.
  
  All DPFs ads showing Labour incompetence achieved SFA because that’s not how anyone measures Jacinda Party.
  
  In fact attacks on her probably bive her more votes.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:01am
  - RJ
    
    His ads achieved nothing also because you don’t run an add campaign when the vast majority had voted. National should of ran that campaign, but they were too useless to fight this election
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:53am
Cinematic

That was a comprehensive shellacking. I spent the entire evening in stunned bewilderment. Still, the people have spoken.
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October 18, 2020 8:25am
- krazykiwi
  
  I switched off. The pseudo-orgasmic commentary from Labour’s paid-off talking heads was too much for me. I spent most of the evening reading with the cat on my lap, and an aged single malt in my hand.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:04am
  - lifesgood
    
    I turned Newstalk and Mike Hosking on briefly but he had that dreadful Neale Jones in the studio with him so I turned it off and watched an amusing programme on Netflix…way more fun!
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:20am
    - Sacha
      
      Gee, I turned on Netflix and couldn’t see a single programme that I wanted to look at.
      Had to read a book !
      
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      October 18, 2020 2:27pm
- Dave Mann
  
  Still, the ~~people~~ sheeple have spoken.
  
  Fixed it for you.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:38am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    The “sheeple” are those bleating this morning. NZ politics have changed forever.
    
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    October 18, 2020 11:34am
    - Wired-one
      
      Yeah lefties were saying that when Key was winning his second and third terms also. This wont last, anyone with a brain knows that…
      
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      October 18, 2020 1:00pm
    - Inandout
      
      BM, politics hasn’t changed, other than MMP being dumped on us, but the terror machine put the fear of the devil into the aged. These retired persons largely still buy the daily papers and watch local news on TV, and can you really blame them for seeing Jacinda as their saviour? Being on a pension their one path to the final days is whatever seems safe and Labour has paved it with roses. That said the elderly residents of Remuera and Brooklyn in their mega-million dollar homes are ripe for the picking by a socialist government, especially one in bed with the Greens. Massive unemployment will further add to the pressure to ‘level out’ society.
      
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      October 18, 2020 1:22pm
EssenX

I don’t think it’s the end of the world. Labour knows that if they are radical they will be turfed out. Ardern is an invertebrate. She could have put in place a capital gains tax by now, but she didn’t. She didn’t need to rule out a wealth tax, but she did. I think we will see more of the same for the next three years: sweet f… all. The sad thing is that the constituents that she planned to support the most – Low socio-economic groups – will suffer the most. The wealthy will plan to take advantage of the unintended consequences and arbitrage opportunities that are government will no doubt present.

Where to from here for the National party? I think the result shows that politics is very cyclical in New Zealand. And it is a popularity contest not a contest of ideas or performance review. A lot of Supposed rejuvenation under Key, but we saw last night that there were a few who had hung on for far too long. Some of these candidates should have signal they were stepping down halfway through the term so that there was a runway for the replacement belt profile.

Lastly, John Campbell is a twat. He loves the sound of his voice. He thinks he’s funny, but he really isn’t. However I did enjoy the comments of Liam Hehir and Emma Espiner last night.
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October 18, 2020 8:27am
- iMP
  
  Lated less than a minute on ONE, switched back to TV3.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:58am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Started on TV3 and stayed there. Was never going to watch One.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:05am
    - sharont
      
      No way would I watch gloating Toxic Tova.
      
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      October 19, 2020 1:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It seems that our leaders are almost inherently conservative. They are terrified of blowing a winning position. Jacinda Ardern is almost copying John Key in ruling out policies she would probably prefer to implement.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:21am
  - EssenX
    
    I agree. I think Key wasted his popularity. He should have at least reformed the RMA, improved our tax structure, and done more to improve productivity. He told National supporters he wanted to take the center with him in an MMP environment, but on reflection he simply lacked the testicular fortitude to risk burning political capital. While the halo is strong around Ardern among her activists, I feel that she desires to be liked even more than Key (who did some unpopular things such as GST increase and asset sales) and she will never do anything that risks people disliking her. For these reasons, I’m not too worried about her in Government. She may be popular, but compared to Labour leaders in the past she is hardly “transformational”.
    
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    October 18, 2020 10:14am
    - rangitoto
      
      Key never had the numbers to reform the RMA.
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:49am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Rubbish. National/ACT/Peter Dunne had the numbers in 2008, 2011, and 2014.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:09am
      - rangitoto
        
        Dunne refused.
        
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        October 18, 2020 5:58pm
  - Simon
    
    “They are terrified of blowing a winning position. Jacinda Ardern is almost copying John Key in ruling out “
    
    Yep it’s all about office. The left r now dreaming of a 1000 year Reich make me laugh
    
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    October 18, 2020 11:51am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Essen, you sound like you want people’s savings and property to be stolen by wealth tax or cut?
  
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  October 18, 2020 11:18am
  - EssenX
    
    No, I don’t want these things. What I’m highlighting is that if Ardern wanted to achieve these things for her base then she could’ve done them. But she doesn’t have the guts do anything remotely unpopular and/or risky. Similarly, Key could have done things but didn’t. I guess if you like MMP then it’s achieved it’s aim: centrist public policy without wild ideological swings. The thing I don’t like is that sometimes those swings are necessary to develop our country. But I don’t see it happening. We’re likely to be stagnant and incremental, when sometimes bigger changes – left or right, liberal or authoritarian – may be required. This might be contributing to our relative decline because our politics is basically #yeahnah so we’re making no progress in any direction.
    
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    October 18, 2020 3:23pm
- Inandout
  
  Only the laundry man will know just how esctatic John was last night. Rachel Maddow has nothing on our John Campbell for sheer over the top enthusiasm for favourites.
  
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  October 18, 2020 1:26pm
- Sacha
  
  “Ardern is an invertebrate.”
  
  Hah! Basks in the warmth of adoration, doing nothing.
  
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  October 18, 2020 2:31pm
edhunter

So SCS was right all along, I suppose that’s the problem when you decide to live in an echo chamber and shout down and shut out any decenting voices, you only hear wha you want to hear.
For what it’s worth even without 20/20 hindsight Bridges would not have lost as badly as this, those 2 leadership spills within months of each other were the final nails in a coffin that was sealed when JA despite going late successfully contained the virus and the sheeple responded accordingly.
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October 18, 2020 8:30am
- JackRabbit
  
  I agree. Criticism of Bridges was unfounded, especially by Tod Muller. Bridges by comparison was relatively stoic in dealing with the Red Queen. No doubt he had dealt with Red Queen types in his job.
  
  Muller on the other hand, put in the jet blast of the Red Queen, was as stunned and paralysed as a rabbit in car headlights.
  
  It is one thing to conceive of facing off with Smaug, it is another entirely thing to confront and actually do it.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:33am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Even at the time I said there’s nothing wrong with Bridges. All the chopping and changing was a disaster.
  
  But even he couldn’t have beaten this fairy dust plus covid plus total media backed win.
  
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  October 18, 2020 11:21am
  - Inandout
    
    CL, I doubt even Jesus could have beaten Jacinda last night.
    
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    October 18, 2020 1:28pm
Ipanema69

On a positive note things to look forward to in the next three years.

Deputy prime minister Davis.
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October 18, 2020 8:32am
- Prince
  
  I heard his speech last night was appalling. Anyone have a link ?
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:52am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I would be surprised if it’s not Robbo.
  Please not one of those toxic greenies.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:58am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Oh Hell. I missed the news that Davis has already been announced.
    Big mistake Cindy, may there be many more.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:07am
    - lifesgood
      
      Does he know where the bodies are buried, or something? (Figure of speech)
      
      11 1
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      October 18, 2020 9:23am
      - sam green
        
        There are no bodies – you assume they operate like the right – big mistake. The world has changed.
        
        1 18
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        October 18, 2020 10:35am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        No, Labour knows where the votes are buried – the ones the Nats lost in 2017.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:38am
    - Ipanema69
      
      Well captain I would say that it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be no additions to the family during this term!
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:57am
- gorse
  
  I heard that, jeez I laughed and laughed and laughed. If he is the best she’s got God help her, she’s going to need it.
  
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  October 18, 2020 6:13pm
- jon
  
  They will have to benchmate Davis with Robertson so that the latter can whisper to the former what to say when he is Acting PM.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:54pm
Tony Stuart

I spent last night commentating speedway, my summer obsession. I followed things on Twitter and via messages from my wife, and was glad for the distraction as the carnage grew.

For purely selfish reasons, I’m hoping either Gerry Brownlee or Nick Smith decides not to return via the list, as the first National MP to miss out was Harete Hipango (#21). I’m also desperately sad for Tim Costley in Otaki, who has campaigned brilliantly for a year, only to lose to the red wave, and a Labour candidate who was reportedly barely visible during the campaign. I hope Tim goes again in 2023.

I expected Labour to do well in the party vote, but I did not expect so many electorates to change hands. Sadly, people are in for some rude surprises over the next three years. Labour’s back bench will be filled with people who never in their life expected to be there, whilst the front bench is as inept as it was in the last term.

Lastly, I see DPF’s debt clock is about to tick over to $50 billion, and it’s still spinning at a rate of more than a thousand dollars a second. Hold onto your hats folks, this ride is about to get rough!
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October 18, 2020 8:34am
- krazykiwi
  
  Tim Costly did an amazing job on the campaign trail. He worked hard, just as Bishop did. Both were beaten by useless flakes.
  
  While I expected Ardern’s cult leader status to boost Labour’s party vote I am gobsmacked at the mindless ‘two ticks red drubbing’ that has seen so many strong National candidates sidelined.
  
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  October 18, 2020 8:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I can’t understand how New Plymouth, kicked into submission over oil and gas, and dairying, could elect a Labour MP. My gob is utterly smacked.
    
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    October 18, 2020 9:02am
    - sooty
      
      Not so young in long pants!
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:44am
    - Gravelroad
      
      I can only imagine that a lot of taxpayer $s have gone into Taranaki as “compensation”…..
      
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      October 18, 2020 9:55am
      - Spam
        
        Nope. About $20 million in a hydrogen centre, I recall.
        
        People also need to realise that hydrogen has more in common with pumped hydro than with gas or coal. It’s battery storage.
        
        Yes, New Plymouth has me puzzled. There was a lot more labour advertising around. Bennett set up his office in the Main Street, which is pretty smart. But still.
        
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        October 18, 2020 11:18am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      If the voters of New Plymouth are so stupid that they don’t know where their bread and butter comes from they deserve to be royally shafted.
      
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      October 18, 2020 10:02am
      - jon
        
        Well said Captain.
        
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        October 18, 2020 8:59pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      You weren’t following the Government trips made to Palmerston North and the announcements which followed. Also, the turnoff is not as complete as they were understood to be.
      Generally, Tony you were even out of touch with the sentiment in your own electorate although you spoke with knowing authority about it – nothing personal Tony but you missed the bus. Your reports on polling and how things were going was all awry.
      A problem National displayed right to the top and exemplified by Peter Goodfellow on the stage last night as those nothing had gone wrong under his watch.
      Then when Judith gave her speech, she couldn’t be reflective and say the Nats had got off track – that middle of the road voters had abandoned the party.
      It was her chance to speak as to what had gone wrong, reflect on it and talk about the rebuilding – but like the campaign, in fact the whole year, no vision.
      I say that despite acknowledging her sheer guts to take on the battle while other aspirants hid away. Now is the wait for them to crawl out from cover.
      
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      October 18, 2020 11:54am
      - gorse
        
        I think you meant New Plymouth. Jeez if you can’t get thst right why would I read your postings?
        
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        October 18, 2020 6:08pm
WaynelSexton

The cookies have spoken.
Trumpslide 2020
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/pennsylvania-bakery-cookie-sales-predicted-presidential-elections
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October 18, 2020 8:38am
- Inandout
  
  Wayne, I suspect Biden & Son don’t eat there.
  
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  October 18, 2020 1:31pm
mark15

The next three years will be a rough ride if you’re a white,straight,working home-owner who values freedoms,liberty and democratic rule.
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October 18, 2020 8:39am
- RJ
  
  Next few months will be very big, buckle in and enjoy the ride! It’s been in the planning for so long.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:57am
slightlyrighty

Like it or not, Jacinda Ardern is our PM. For the record, I do not like the fact, but I do acknowledge that fact.

Our opposition must remain vigilant. There are many proposals from Labour that give me concern, but the worst of them is the push for Hate Speech Legislation. I am very pleased that ACT is now a 10 person caucus and no longer a lone voice in the wilderness on this issue.

A government that dictates what you cannot express is a short step away from a government that dictates what you must say, and we cannot allow this to happen.

We have seen the results in other jurisdictions where voices are suppressed when they speak uncomfortable truths.
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October 18, 2020 8:40am
- cmm
  
  National was amazingly incompetent as an opposition in the leat term. They did not deserve to be in power this term.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:03am
Frank the tank

This is shit……this is shit
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October 18, 2020 8:46am
Swifty

A reminder for Winston – give the bloody car back.
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October 18, 2020 8:49am
Colville

Bring back Simon.
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October 18, 2020 8:50am
iMP

THOUGHTS on ELECTION
1. HUGE CONGRATULATIONS to Labour, well Jacinda. But this is an outlier result, it is unprecedented in so many ways. That is the impact of Covid, being unable to campaign properly, and lockdowns, National’s infighting, Jacinda hogging all the media air and the MSM being cheerleaders for her.
2. 99% Jacinda and 1 % Labour. A celebrity election. Labour had catastrophically failed on all their 2017 promises. Don’t expect change there 2020-2023. Read the record.
3. Can Jacinda manage this huge new caucus? David Lange couldn’t. The Left is so factionalised, watch them backbite, squabble and implode over this next term.
4. Bit shocked to see Jacinda looking to govern alone, and cold shoulder the Greens. That is ominous.
5. As someone who had some time seeing our new PM off camera, what I saw was a woman who doesn’t want to be there. Journalists said same of her during leader debate ad breaks. She switches off and switches on to perform. Thrust in to leadership reluctantly, given PM-ship by Winston, now landslide. Prediction: Jacinda will be at UN before 2023 as wheels fall off.
6. Kelvin Davis confirmed as Deputy PM. Really? That speech last night was embarrassing. First Jacinda misstep.
7. Time for Winston and NZF to be done. But what an undignified departure. I hope he has a guest valedictory. I have voted for him once, admire him as a politician and will miss his imput, but the SFO stuff is corrupt and it is an unexcusable cancer inside Winston Peters and NZF politically. End of an era and an error.
8. 8. Congrats to my ex-colleage Ingrid Leary, a National press sec., now a labour MP for Taieri, Dunedin.
9. Gutted for Gerry and Nick. Both should dtay another term to anchor reaction and experinece. Judith should stay as leader too for next election.
10. Hope Maori party makes it. Coffey has been woeful with all his woke politics that was irrelevant to real Maori issues. How cool to have a NZ MP with full moko. Love it.
11. ACT cannibalised National vote, we will see how well Seymour manages his team and whether they can consolidates as a breakoff party like Greens from labour/Alliance. But their vote may swing back again in 2023 to National.
12. NewCons, TOP, Opp, Adv, go home. You’re seaweed in the whitebait net.
13. Lesson for National. Stop trying to out-Progressive the Labour Party. Nats are not a pink-blue. Its a rural conservative party. Pivot to the center and reframe the party purpose and raison detre (to oppose Socialism, champion farming and business, less govt, and personal responsibility).
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October 18, 2020 8:50am
- mandk
  
  “How cool to have a NZ MP with full moko”
  
  Yeah, but it’s a pity about his cultural appropriation, suit, hat and all.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:22am
  - Unity
    
    To me nothing looks worse than facial tattoos. Part Maori seem to be continually looking back into the past. Facial tattoos are a grossly ugly disfiguration, making the owner look aggressive. Yuk!! Who would give the owner of one a front of house job?
    
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    October 18, 2020 3:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Rural conservatives are not a base on which a nationwide party can be built.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:25am
- Gravelroad
  
  Good summary iMP but don’t totally agree with your point 13.
  It’s been a very long time since National saw itself as a “rural Conservative party,” and I don’t imagine for a minute they would want to be.
  In fact, I thought John Key was much more aligned with urban business and treated rural folk like peasants – in a rather paternalistic fashion.
  No political party will ever come out and support farming and private property rights – because urban voter bases won’t tolerate those concepts.
  Seymour has given it a go this time, but can’t see him following through post election.
  Ironically, so much of the business of primary production (dairy, wine, forestry) is now in the hands of corporate “farmers” for whom international profit making is the prime concern.
  Urban people need not fear influence of any owner operator family farmer – they are the easiest of regulatory and hate targets and dwindling into oblivion anyway.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:29am
- SPC
  
  The, it’s all Clark or it’s all Ardern line is tired.
  
  And they don’t walk away until they lose an election, you’re thinking of Key.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:51am
  - marcw
    
    Key did not lose an election – left when he saw what all his hard work meant to the losers eg. Maori party.
    
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    October 18, 2020 11:02am
lazza

Quote: “National deserves permanent oblivion over the way it has sold out on principle;”

Well yes … but add their born to rule stupidity- oblivious and ignorant of the realities of MMP. Peopled-run by shelf life expired arrogant grey stuffed shirts.

National needs a bomb under it… a reformation and a renewal … above all a new boldness of liberal (hardly conservative) considered and enlightened policies.
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October 18, 2020 8:55am
- Sacha
  
  @ lazza:
  “Peopled-run by shelf life expired arrogant grey stuffed shirts.”
  Ah – the arrogance of youth exemplified.
  
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  October 18, 2020 2:43pm
Prince

On the bright side…
Goodbye NZ First, Winston, Tracy Martin.
Goodbye Jamie Lee Ross.
Thanks Nick Smith, Gerry. Time to walk away.
Given the implosions this year, a smaller, focussed National Caucus could be more effective. So much for the impact of the much touted largest single Opposition caucus in history.
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October 18, 2020 9:02am
- BAM
  
  All the backstabbers and underminers made to back in.
  
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  October 18, 2020 12:52pm
Waipuk

The media were a big contributor in helping Labour win the election.

Nation must find a way of talking directly with the people.
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October 18, 2020 9:12am
- BananaLlama
  
  Well what do you expect when you have MPs running their own gossip columns to the media. National are just brainless at the moment hopefully this defeat allows them to clean house.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:55am
Scooter

Well the line Cindy lay down before the election that she will resign may just come back to bite her, as people will now expect her to last the next 3 years. Not a good look to bail out part way through.
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October 18, 2020 9:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Na,
  she’s the boss..
  she can do what she likes.
  
  She got Labour back in and solidly….
  She’s up with Michael Savage in Labour mythology now.
  There’ll be others waiting to step into her seat if she vacates early.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:55am
JibberJabber

When do we find out the results of the Referenda ?
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October 18, 2020 9:19am
- burt
  
  With a Labour/Green govt the result is irrelevant.
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:47am
- RJ
  
  Two weeks
  
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  October 18, 2020 9:56am
- Ruawai
  
  In 2 weeks.
  
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  October 18, 2020 10:04am
lazza

Bloodbath… massacre … rout … whatever. Told you so ffolkes.

The existing shelf life expired, grey, arrogant and disordered National Party structure should now be interred without ceremony.

A bold superbly lead more liberal principled well organized and responsive entity must take its place.

Or else? … we are doomed.

Footnote … to how bad the Nat organization is and how it is perceived: I

In the Nat electorate’s (only 3! exceptions) returned a labour! majority … for the party vote.

I rest my case.
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October 18, 2020 9:25am
All_on_Red

UK’s Spitting Image does ‘Extra Nice Jacinda’
https://mobile.twitter.com/spittingimage/status/1317518236318076928
6 2
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October 18, 2020 9:29am
Wired-one

Just goes to show us all that the public dont care about utter failure on policy delivery and promises. Let’s be honest, National may as well elect Richie McCaw as their leader. I marvel at how stupid and pathetic NZ has become. When did we decide mediocrity, incompetence ineptitude and complete failure should be rewarded? Do kiwis honestly think Twyford, Clark and Davis deserve rewarded for their achievements? Every single measure from hospital waiting times to poverty and inequality has significantly worsened, that has now been rewarded by a majority for Labour. Please wake the hell up NZ and shame on our media for being complicit in this bullshit.
34 4
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October 18, 2020 9:35am
- Wired-one
  
  Come on down tickers, tell us all why Ardern and Labour deserved re-election and talk about policy delivery please.
  
  3 0
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  October 18, 2020 4:47pm
Maggie Pie

Only just backhome now. What an absolutely fab day here in the Queen City. Warm sunny sky and a 5 knot Northerly.
Headed directly from St Mary’s in Parnell out to the BP in GI for a 6 pk of KK. Heard ZB’s Kerry Woodham open her show telling listeners that when her Uber Driver picked her up early this morning, she asked him what he thought of last nights election result?
He was overjoyed, telling Kerry…. “that with Jacinda’s help, he will now finally be able to bring his entire family over from India”.

What a wonderful caring country we are.
27 3
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October 18, 2020 9:43am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Sorry to be a pedant MP, but her name is ‘Kerre’.
  
  7 4
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  October 18, 2020 10:05am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I know it was a landslide to Labor, Captain……but I’m not sure that’s something you would want to admit to?
    
    5 4
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    October 18, 2020 10:15am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      What’s all that about? I thought we were on the same team. Something happen at Mass this morning?
      
      4 2
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      October 18, 2020 11:35am
Philview

Three investors have told me in recent weeks they are divesting from New Zealand. Nothing to do with wealth tax but spooked by the risk. Has anyone else heard similar?
20 5
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October 18, 2020 9:57am
- fernglas
  
  The Australian finance editor nailed it a couple of days ago when he said that this country’s economy is in the shit. The trouble is that those numpties who voted for the left last night either don’t realise it or don’t care. So yes, there will be capital flight, and I am certainly reorganising my investments to make them New Zealand light, and portable. That means I sold my golf clubs for some US Dollars.
  
  18 0
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  October 18, 2020 11:24am
  - gorse
    
    Thanks fernglass, i made a d at around 9-30 last night to move a heap to Australia. Been working on it today. If we are going it how many millions might go before Christmas?
    
    4 0
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    October 18, 2020 5:50pm
Wired-one

We will be back, keep you chins up National and Act voters. The tide is currently out, itll be back in before you know it.
14 3
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October 18, 2020 10:12am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I think it’s time to retire. I like working at what I do, but at 68I am not paying any more Tax for these socialist bastards to waste on stupid things. Knuckle down and live off my savings and Super.
Fuck them.
Even Upper Harbour turned red, from a supposed safe National seat.
31 4
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October 18, 2020 10:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Boo hoo
  
  2 29
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  October 18, 2020 11:12am
- sam green
  
  [Unacceptable – banned for 2 weeks. Mod.]
  
  2 7
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  October 18, 2020 11:19am
  - Jack5
    
    My up-tick is for the ban! ??
    
    10 3
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    October 18, 2020 12:05pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mine too. Bye sam
      
      13 1
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      October 18, 2020 12:39pm
- IC5000
  
  Don’t worry Otto, hopefully the Trump landslide will cheer you up.
  
  It might be healthy to take a break from discussing politics online for the sake of your health. I’m part troll so I live for this rowdy shit but do you really want to waste your declining years being triggered hard by people such as me?
  
  2 9
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  October 18, 2020 12:01pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nothing wrong with my health sonny. I produce twice as much as guys half my age.
    Take a break? Might fuck off to Alaska to see the northern lights as soon as supreme commander opens the border
    
    13 1
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    October 18, 2020 12:38pm
  - IC5000
    
    > I produce twice as much as guys half my age.
    
    Just tell Mrs Otto to lie back and think of England you rascal
    
    0 3
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    October 18, 2020 1:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I divorced Mrs Otto in 1988, in the same office I was married in. Current partner for 37 years has no ancestry, she was adopted
      
      2 0
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      October 18, 2020 2:58pm
      - IC5000
        
        Have you heard of the saying ‘lie back and think of England before’?
        
        Current partner of 37 years? You don’t sound very optimistic
        
        0 2
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        October 18, 2020 3:39pm
Herodotus

Nothing worse than when those who remain on the reserve bench for the ENTIRE game, then once the game is over come on “Giving Smack Talk” to the opposition.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2020-is-kelvin-davis-election-night-speech-the-worlds-worst-political-speech/BBIG3TIAVORROD2LTQ3L4NGH44/
13 1
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October 18, 2020 10:27am
Cinematic

Labour now has a major management issue. They’ve gone very deep into their list. Given they’re weak at the top it must be fruit loop territory further down. Act will have similar problems on a smaller scale.

National on the other hand, once sorted, will be a tight highly motivated focussed team.
12 5
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October 18, 2020 10:36am
- Tall Man
  
  We can but hope.
  
  0 0
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  October 18, 2020 9:12pm
oldfella

Don’t have to own a crystal ball to see that very soon Cindy will announce a deal for Ihumatao which will see the land ceded back to Maori control, one way or the other.
To be followed immediately by sit-ins and demonstrations up and down the country by other Maori malcontents who will note the Ihumatao precedent and think, ‘We-too! Give us our land back as well, and bugger the treaty settlements’.
Could get very messy…
23 4
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October 18, 2020 10:45am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  I have more than enough popcorn to watch and snigger. They broke it, they own it. Yes, they’ll tax me more, but no, they don’t own my peace of mind. And the chickens will re-encounter the roost.
  
  7 1
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  October 18, 2020 1:21pm
Bill Felt

Labour have enough MP’s to form a Government.
But not enough competent Ministers to run a country!
14 3
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October 18, 2020 10:55am
- RW Capitalist
  
  But no competent Ministers to run a country!
  Fixed it
  
  7 1
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  October 18, 2020 12:48pm
  - Bill Felt
    
    That’s not fair after all there is…. ummm argh,… no, you are right!
    
    5 0
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    October 18, 2020 3:15pm
Fletch

In case you missed it overseas – ANOTHER set of released emails (nothing to do with the last lot) showing a connection the Bidens and the Chinese and how they got rich off it. This time from a former partner of Hunter’s who is now in prison.

Newly obtained emails from a Hunter Biden business partner lay out in detail how the Vice President’s son and his colleagues used their access to the Obama-Biden administration to arrange private meetings for potential foreign clients and investors at the highest levels in the White House. These never-before-revealed emails outline how a delegation of Chinese investors and Communist Party officials managed to secure a private, off-the-books meeting with then-Vice President Joe Biden.

In a 2011 email, Hunter Biden’s business associates also discussed developing relations with what one called “China Inc.” as part of a “new push on soft diplomacy for the Chinese.” These emails are completely unconnected to the Hunter Biden emails being released by the New York Post.

These and more explosive never-before-revealed emails were provided to Schweizer by Bevan Cooney, a one-time Hunter Biden and Devon Archer business associate. Cooney is currently in prison serving a sentence for his involvement in a 2016 bond fraud investment scheme.

In 2019, Cooney reached out to Schweizer after becoming familiar with the revelations in his 2018 book Secret Empires. Cooney explained that he believes he was the “fall guy” for the fraud scheme and that Archer and Hunter Biden had avoided responsibility.

Details of some of the mails at the link – https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/16/exclusive-this-is-china-inc-emails-reveal-hunter-bidens-associates-helped-communist-aligned-chinese-elites-secure-white-house-meetings/

The thing is – will anybody care? The media certainly don’t. The Bidens, as Trump has said, are pretty much an “organized crime family”. Selling influence to the Chinese and Ukrainians and profiting greatly from it. It’s the same thing as the Clintons did, only they did it using the fake Clinton Foundation as cover.

If Biden gets elected then the American people are stupid.
17 5
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October 18, 2020 11:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If Biden gets elected then the American people are as stupid as the NZ people.
  Fixed it for you
  
  15 4
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  October 18, 2020 12:42pm
  - Fletch
    
    I was going to say that but didn’t…..lol
    
    4 0
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    October 18, 2020 3:45pm
Suze Wainwright

Isn’t that Clarke Gayford a real sweetie!
3 15
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October 18, 2020 11:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  OK, who has the barf bucket? I need it
  
  13 0
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  October 18, 2020 12:42pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    It’s full, bud.
    
    9 0
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    October 18, 2020 1:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Get a leftie to empty the fucker
      
      4 0
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      October 18, 2020 2:59pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        None available, they’re all working from home…
        
        0 0
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        October 19, 2020 4:55am
fernglas

National should purge the leadership; get rid of Collins and Brownlee, if he hasn’t already taken the hint, and get some young Turks on board. Not egotistical power-mad idiots with too much testosterone and not enough brains, but people with a future. I liked our Auckland Central candidate Emma Mellow. They are the ones the National party should be looking at. Forget the next election. Build for 2026. If there is a 2026.
3 13
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October 18, 2020 11:29am
tranquil

I think Cindy will be in power for as long as she wants to be.

With the fawning leftist media and our children being leftist-brainwashed at school, I can’t see Labour being beaten until the 2030s. I’m serious.
The Left is **that** dominant in politics and in general culture, and I can’t see that EVER changing.

Policies don’t matter any more.
Facts don’t matter any more.
Heck, I’ll wager that 99 percent of Labour voters don’t even know what “debt” is.
The only thing that matters is “star power” and “good feelz”.
20 2
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October 18, 2020 11:30am
- RW Capitalist
  
  This govt. will be hence forth known as the Kardasian govt.
  
  8 0
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  October 18, 2020 12:37pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Apart from the quality of the sex tapes … you may be on to something.
    
    3 0
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    October 18, 2020 12:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The only thing that matters is continuous $50M bailouts
  
  9 1
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  October 18, 2020 12:44pm
- BAM
  
  That’s what shits me about John Key, he allowed that to happen.
  Worst National PM of all time.
  
  4 8
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  October 18, 2020 12:58pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘debt’ The difference between a billion and a trillion is 3 zeros, and zeros have no value, so there is no extra cost. That is how Labour comprehend debt
  
  6 0
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  October 18, 2020 3:01pm
- RJ
  
  I’d say more than national voters labour voters understand what debt is and what struggling to get by is.. labour got into because
  
  The media were behind them.
  They had the daily 1pm campaign briefing, whoops covid
  National were as weak as hell in their campaign, constant leaks and stuffing things up and never really recovered from ousting bridges.
  
  I voted for Megan Hands. She never campaigned in my area, no junk mail from her. While labour were at all the farmers markets national were no where to been seen. National lost this election, welcome to democracy, the team that was out there and working their ass off every day flipped a strong blue area to red because national didn’t give a fuck.
  
  5 0
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  October 18, 2020 4:51pm
  - Scooter
    
    Hands, is that her real surname? I thought people were mocking her and maybe she had Jacinda’s affliction.
    
    3 0
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    October 18, 2020 8:34pm
Maggie Pie

[Deleted, and will be referred to DPF when he returns. You have been warned about losing your auto-posting privilege. Making fun of mental illness is unacceptable here. Mod.]
5 4
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October 18, 2020 11:38am
- Maggie Pie
  
  never saw it that way tbh
  [Sorry DPF has, banned for 2 weeks. Mod.]
  
  6 5
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  October 18, 2020 12:33pm
Alboy

I’m trying to think of it like this:

25% were always going to vote labour.
7% think the planet is broken and can be fixed with tax.
20% odd think that Jacinda saved us from a plague of biblical proportions.

Somehow feels better if I think like this 🙂
13 1
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October 18, 2020 11:44am
Maggie Pie

Director General of Health Ashley Bloomfield has called a special press conference for 1pm to make announcement on Covid-19 situation.

I can see this ending in tiers.
19 0
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October 18, 2020 12:22pm
- adaman
  
  And it happens first day after the election……
  
  17 0
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  October 18, 2020 12:32pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    As Einstein said, I don’t believe in coincidences.
    
    8 0
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    October 18, 2020 1:31pm
    - sooty
      
      Chippies bullshitting, he says he found out at 6.11 today, Ashley would have him on speed dial!
      
      3 0
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      October 18, 2020 8:43pm
  - jon
    
    And the powers to be reportedly knew about it on the 16th..took two days to report it..funny that!!
    
    0 0
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    October 18, 2020 9:16pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  or tears…floods of
  Tears?? in the fabric of our economy
  
  5 1
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  October 18, 2020 12:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is he following the supreme leaders first captains call of the second term?
  I do hope it is not more socialist control
  
  5 2
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  October 18, 2020 12:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not on TV1 yet. I guess they will record it for editing.
  
  3 2
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  October 18, 2020 1:02pm
  - sooty
    
    Lockdown for Auckland!
    Commuity case on the 16th. Had to get the election over first!
    
    2 1
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    October 18, 2020 1:49pm
RW Capitalist

Lament of the day
18yrs of do nothing Paul Swain
followed by
15yrs of do nothing Chris Hipkins
Why do Remutaka, keep electing these lazy, feckless
Non representatives?
33 yrs where the only progress and development has been thanks to National govt.s.
There must have been a time in the past 12yrs that Hipkins has used the word Remutaka (at the very least), but for the life of me, I can’t recall it.
8 1
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October 18, 2020 12:33pm
SPC

Whose bright idea was it to make all those red MAGA caps without informing Kiwi voters it was not Make Ardern Great Again …
5 0
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October 18, 2020 12:34pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  In order to “make ardern great again”
  Makes the assumption, she was great to begin with.
  
  12 1
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  October 18, 2020 12:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Make Ardern Go Away, but the left did not comprehend
  
  12 3
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  October 18, 2020 12:51pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I’m wearing mine daily. I expect there will be more not fewer Kiwis who will agree with the sentiment in weeks and times to come.
    
    4 1
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    October 18, 2020 1:23pm
    - SPC
      
      Bert, are you enjoying hosting the Taranaki games this year?
      
      0 0
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      October 18, 2020 2:34pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        wut the actual are you rabbiting about? what games?
        
        0 0
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        October 19, 2020 4:57am
SPC

As for ASB and Kaikoura Fish and Chip Shop naming rights to Eden Park.

1. A fisherman is home from the sea with food for newsmedia.

2. You can read the results of the election in fish and chip wrapping paper before the test starts.

(some people know how to do this)

3. The plan is to hunt the deer in the electorate headlights for the cull swing comes for them

4. In the north where the young mother is PM bares her breasts within Fin’ish fashion, whereas in the south another seeks to return to her place as head of her party down under in a place where the Maori word for fish and head have something to do with a grandmothers jaw bone and leaving someone behind to take care of the older women so they are safe.

5. Sometimes different colours involve different accents, but only here are we free, old and young, of COVID.

And so in the end, it came down to how many stars/tries were awarded, to determine the winner in the day. The end.

PS The journalist knows it is all about narrative and being the one who prevails as hero of the story by its end.
4 4
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October 18, 2020 12:57pm
SPC

1 community case.

Port worker.

Wednesday 14th – working in New Plymouth, stayed in motel. Ship he worked on is en route to Napier.

Returned home to Auckland.

Thursday 15th – at home in Auckland.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/10/coronavirus-new-community-case-of-covid-19-in-new-zealand.html
9 0
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October 18, 2020 1:14pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Wow. One case. How many flu cases today? Remember that using CDC’s own data Civid-19 has the same IFR as a bad flu.
  
  9 1
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  October 18, 2020 7:45pm
info@cruzpro.com

On the bright side, Labour now has to face the problems that it created.
22 3
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October 18, 2020 1:29pm
greybeard

So Rieko Ioane has been replaced because of some apparent injury.
That was a very kind way of dropping him as punishment for last week’s Hollywood clanger.
4 4
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October 18, 2020 1:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

World Doctors Alliance has been censored over Covid. It has been removed from YouTube.
You are being played.
https://2020electioncenter.com/watch?id=5f89e0dc32cdbe13b341a897&fbclid=IwAR0XwdIr9FLBzlwBZCZdgSjVZiiqV8eZeGFPLUEe07CwReVLq6EM7jCbzRQ
9 2
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October 18, 2020 4:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems the ‘controllers’ are not wanting this bullshit publicised. You know who you are, especially in NZ
  
  11 1
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  October 18, 2020 4:11pm
greybeard

Thank God that the appalling Shane Jones has been removed from our lives.
I can almost accept National’s failure in exchange for getting rid of that narcissistic bloated prick.
14 1
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October 18, 2020 6:04pm
- sooty
  
  Isn’t he lucky Kelvin lives down the road, he can wave when he passes!
  
  7 0
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  October 18, 2020 8:39pm
  - mark15
    
    He can wave when he passes,Kelvin,
    but his brains are where his ass is.
    I can poem too!
    
    2 0
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    October 18, 2020 10:29pm
Cobolt24

I think long term, Labour will have a hard time staying this popular. Lets hope Judith stays in for this long run. The stardom will wear off for Labour. They seemed to have picked up the centrist National voters they’ll likely reclaim. ACT will probably keep many of their new voters.

The Greens were a bit of a surprise. I suspect more left leaning Labour voters who thought they weren’t radical enough such as not implementing a CGT among other things.
11 3
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October 18, 2020 6:40pm
gorse

A long way down on General Debate so won’t get read by many, doesn’t matter as it is a ramble anyway. I can’t understand what happened yesterday. I am nearly 70. I first voted in the early 70’s, when I turned 21. Yes you had to have the “key to the door” to vote then. My parents took me to the polling booth, they were farmers, the booth was a half hour drive away. I voted National. I have ever since until this election when I voted ACT. National has to me become centre left, not where I was brought up. My parents drummed it into me to never put your hand out to the Government for money. The message was if you did you were a failure. A bit tough by todays standards maybe, but I can remember dad said you would feel better about yourself shovelling shit for money than getting it from the Government. I lived my life, always in work, and I have passed that ethic onto my two children. It seems that now we live in an era where accepting the hand out from the Government is entrenched by many, too many. It seems that yesterday, many right wing people have jumped ship for the easy left wing ride. No principles in my opinion. They have not understood that socialism isn’t the redistribution of wealth but the redistribution of poverty. I can’t remember who said that, probably because I am nearly 70.
22 4
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October 18, 2020 7:13pm
- Pateke
  
  Well saidGorse. Same upbringing but started earlier voting, now 75. a little bewildered by what happened last night.
  
  9 0
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  October 18, 2020 8:30pm
- Tall Man
  
  I understand that completely.
  
  It’s yesterday that still has me puzzled.
  
  0 1
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  October 18, 2020 9:03pm
Suze Wainwright

When did the Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand buy out Country Calendar?
10 0
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October 18, 2020 7:37pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Troughers gotta trough…
  
  2 0
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  October 19, 2020 4:58am

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