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October 4, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 October 2020

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General Debate

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Happychappy

How can the media print stories like this even though many can’t read it because it is under the paywall. This is disgraceful by the Herald a d the writer especially so close to a Election where they are supposed to be neutral in the political race.
cherie.howie@nzherald.co.nz
When are the people that pen stories like this going to wake up to the fact these catch phrase’s that Jacinda Ardern writes that they fawn on are not her own they are copied from many famous people our climate activists around the world by a Prime Minister that seldom tells the truth .
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October 4, 2020 8:00am
- JackRabbit
  
  Seldom is a bit too frequent from my observation.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:31am
Sigmund Freud

Good morning Kiwibloggers.

Another day on the Cindy and Winstone train wreck of New Zealand and it’s people and it’s economy.
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October 4, 2020 8:01am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Animal Day!
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October 4, 2020 8:01am
- Jimmy White
  
  Its also NATIONAL CINNAMON ROLL DAY or as I call in NATIONAL WILL ROLL CINDY DAY
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:12am
  - sooty
    
    MnM. Yes, they do taste nice!
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:40am
krazykiwi

Forgive me father, pastor, vicar, padre, priest.

For I have synonymed.
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October 4, 2020 8:02am
- gump
  
  What song do religious fundamentalists learn at primary school?
  
  If you’re happy and you know it, it’s a sin…
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:05am
  - kowtow
    
    What song do woke parents make their kids sing at Envirokindy ?
    
    If you’re a white chappy and you know it, check your privelige…….
    
    I’ll get my coat.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:23am
  - Gravelroad
    
    As a child and young teenager I used to go to a Presbyterian Sunday School ( they had good picnics and socials).
    But as time went by I started questioning about why, as the Reverend kept telling us, we must “fear God” and beware of the “wrath of God”.
    We all had to be “God fearing”.
    Why?
    Stopped going.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:25am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Christened a Catholic
      Went to a Presbyterian Sunday school
      Now an atheist
      but, am I just a bad Catholic?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdolFXcNAH4
      
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      October 4, 2020 10:44am
      - Don Beckett
        
        So are you going to join the Taliban? 😉
        
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        October 4, 2020 11:06am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Don Becket
        Yes ….
        I would like to join the Taliban to a rocket and launch them into outer space.
        
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        October 4, 2020 1:40pm
    - Belinda
      
      My mother made me go to Sunday School, I hated it and only escaped when I went home and was able to say the teacher hit me, and I didnt think that was very christianlike.
      
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      October 4, 2020 10:55am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Syn no more..
  Use poecilonyms instead.
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:32am
- Justitia
  
  krazykiwi, you left out your mullah or imam. Islamophobia! They R us! I feel a complaint to our marxist and perversely named “human rights” commission coming on.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:36am
MCos

Is Trump crook or not?
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October 4, 2020 8:03am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Considering he has been the most investigated President ever, I’d say he is a long way down the list.
  definitely below these on the honest list
  Obama.
  Clinton
  Bush x 2
  Kennedy
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  Nixon
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  Trump/Regan
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:47am
  - Fletch
    
    Obama was honest??!! Are you kidding?? Really??
    You must be! And Clinton??!! ?
    Biggest liars in U.S history….
    
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    October 4, 2020 6:36pm
artemisia

Stuff today reporting on some horticultural workers, their opinions and their pay. The item is accompanied by a short vid featuring apple sorters.

Stuff could usefully have mentioned that New Zealand is ahead of the pack in developing apple sorting, grading and packing robotics and is exporting it. Packing is especially labour intensive, or was. But wait, there’s more ….

Or maybe that is Moore as in Moore’s Law.
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October 4, 2020 8:04am
I remember when

Sweden covid deaths by age group:
90+ 1528 26%
80+ 3966 67.5%
70+ 5252 89.33%
60+ 5658 96.24%
0-9 2: 10-19 0: 0-50 57:
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October 4, 2020 8:08am
- Jimmy White
  
  Your saying that if you are between 60 and 70 and Catch Covid you have a 96% chance you will die?
  Please post the link? (doing a Mike)
  
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  October 4, 2020 12:30pm
  - gander
    
    Jimmy, I reckon the first four lines list Covid-19 deaths as cumulative numbers and percentages of the total numbers of Covid-19 deaths.
    
    Start with the over-90’s; they account for 26% of the total Covid-19 deaths. Add the 80-89’s; together those two groups account for 67.5%. Add the 70-79’s; together those three groups account for 89.33%. And so on.
    
    The three figures at the bottom of the post aren’t in the same format; they’re absolute numbers only, and only for two specific decades (0-9 and 10-19) and the under-50s as a group.
    
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    October 4, 2020 1:15pm
Swifty

A good piece from Damien Grant on Peters and his looming demise:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300121760/winston-peters-political-story-is-coming-to-an-end
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October 4, 2020 8:12am
- Inandout
  
  Swifty, a long career for such a short person.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:04am
mark15

Good morning all.
I hope that Donald Trump isn’t assassinated.
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October 4, 2020 8:13am
- Jimmy White
  
  Odds are he was given Covid rather than catching it.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:15am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Much like the Diana assassination theory – it’s not much of a fiendish plot when it is totally dependent on the intended victim failing to take the most elementary, widely advised and well known precautions.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:27am
- BAM
  
  Could be all theatre.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:49am
I remember when

If we had had the 4400 covid-19 deaths one model suggested (scaled down from 80,000), we would be leading the world in deaths per million.
The 1136 dpm would leave Peru’s 986 dpm way behind in second place.
If the world had averaged 1136 dpm there would be 8,860,800 people dead. So the less than 1.1 million would have been far exceeded.
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October 4, 2020 8:14am
- Dave Mann
  
  Yes – I always say in conversation a write on blogs that the dpm is the only really important figure, mainly because a) testing is so haphazard and not always accurate, and b) because a huge percentage of people have either zero or only mild symptoms.
  
  The people are so brainwashed by fear that they can’t think it through logically. Worse than that, many just can’t understand the concept of percentages or dpm.
  
  Last night at a family dinner I pointed out that ‘two hundred thousand US deaths’ was only a tiny fraction – 0.06% – of their population. And most of these were either elderly and/or sick with some other condition too. I was met with blank looks and the reply was along the lines of “That’s still a lot of people…. how would YOU like to catch it and die????”
  
  Logic and facts don’t really stand a chance in a climate of fear such as this.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:21am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    According to Wikipedia approximately 0.81% of the human population die each year. With a population of 350,000,000 you would expect 2,835,000 people to die in the USA each year. 200,000 represents about 7%. Maybe 10% after a year has passed.
    
    Internationally with a population of 7.8 billion, we can expect about 63 million to die each year. With 1.1 million dead due to or with covid-19 that represents a very small percentage. 98% of the people that die each year die for other reasons.
    
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    October 4, 2020 1:53pm
Swifty

The Red-Shanked Douc Langur:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcV5l4jXX8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVuptCnAbnQ

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen nor heard of them before.
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October 4, 2020 8:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They are fabulous..
  
  The black-shanked Douc Langur is pretty cool, too….with its blue face and nether region
  
  https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fb/17/6b/fb176b8b2078bb7236695117c94eb244.jpg
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:19am
Justitia

It is 1989. The Berlin Wall falls and totalitarian socialist dictatorships are collapsing across Eastern Europe, leading to the dissolution of the Soviet Union itself. “The end of history” is proclaimed because it seems the values enshrined in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including its promises of free speech and freedom of expression, so long suppressed under Communism, are now becoming truly universal.

But the thugs and dictators who rule many of the member States of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) are deeply alarmed. They send their Foreign Ministers to a meeting in Tehran, the centre of the web of Islamist terrorism, to hammer out the Declaration of Human Rights in Islam. They declare human rights are a Western invention and a “tool of imperialism”. Their own declaration contains no guarantees of freedom of speech or freedom of religion. Sharia Law is the only source of citizens’ rights. “Defamation” of Islam is a crime.

And this Dear Reader, is the code that Ardern and her irascible goon of a Justice Minister plan to implement after the election, if they prevail, by outlawing “hate speech” against religion and in particular “islamophobia”. It would be a betrayal of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and rob you of your rights to free speech and free expression. Don’t let them do it. Vote them out now before it’s too late.
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October 4, 2020 8:20am
- Inandout
  
  Justy, 1989 when the communists of the world fled to other nests, such as Greenpeace and ‘environmentalist’ cells.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:08am
artemisia

How many will take advantage of quarantine free travel to Australia and also avoid quarantine here on return? By not returning. Maybe a visit later.

The last few months have afforded time to consider options, and if the most probable option here is Jobseeker it could be an easy choice.
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October 4, 2020 8:22am
- yossarian
  
  And that it exactly what will happen. I guess the govt doesn’t want to open the border because the of the flood who’ll be leaving
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:47am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    New Zealanders can leave now. I know two who have gone to Europe in July.
    In short “the flood who’s be leaving” can happen as soon as Australia opens the border. But I guess it won’t happen. It would be hard for departing New Zealanders to get jobs in Australia.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:40am
    - virtualmark
      
      Wayne, out of interest, were the two people European citizens? Travel insurers aren’t covering anyone for Covid now, and that’s going to chill tourism as much as anything else.
      
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      October 4, 2020 11:18am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Some travel insurers…not all. 🙂
        
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        October 4, 2020 1:19pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Both were New Zealand citizens, both born here. Both had plausible reasons to leave New Zealand to go to Europe, though for one the reason was more compelling than for the other.
        
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        October 4, 2020 3:22pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It would be hard for departing New Zealanders to get jobs in Australia.
      
      Not in the hospitality trades.
      
      All the foreign folk who keep Aussie Hospitality running had to head back to their own countries if they didn’t qualify for job seeker funds.
      
      Victoria is crying out for workers to rebuild its economy.
      https://www.coronavirus.vic.gov.au/working-victoria-information-jobseekers#am-i-eligible
      
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      October 4, 2020 11:28am
      - Dave Mann
        
        Hahaha Maggy!
        
        Why would anybody want to go to live and work in a totalitarian Marxist shithole like Victoria? It’s bad enough here in A-hole-turd-a-rower; out of the frying pan and into the fire.
        
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        October 4, 2020 11:46am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Why would anybody want to go to live and work in a totalitarian Marxist shithole like Victoria?
        
        From daughter’s p.o.v.:
        1. Because she gets paid a damn sight more in Melbourne than in Auckland.
        2. Because there’s a greater variety of work places in which to gain experience.
        3. Because her rent is cheaper/better.
        4. Because it’s cheaper to travel o/s from Oz than from NZ.
        
        and probably loads of other reasons….
        
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        October 4, 2020 1:49pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      True Wayne. I know some Kiwis who have gone to Cambodia for teaching jobs All you need is a Cambodian visa!!!
      
      Part of the entry process is to show insurance cover of $50,000 isd or more
      
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      October 4, 2020 1:23pm
    - artemisia
      
      Not to forget the hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders already settled in Australia. If they have jobs they will be staying. Plenty own businesses. They all have family and mates in NZ, and if some are heading for the dole here and few prospects they might well head over the ditch.
      
      Half of my generation – siblings and cousins, live in Australia. Most have been there for many years and are citizens. I plan to stay here but if I or the offspring decided to go there, doors and jobs will be wide open.
      
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      October 4, 2020 4:16pm
- Max
  
  I have Australian citizenship, after living in NZ for 46 years (except for a 4 year tenure overseas) when Labour becomes the government again we will be off to the NSW coast. It will be sad to leave however there are few people we know who see through the propaganda foremost we do not want to see our hard earned assets and investments disappear through a marxist wealth/asset redistribution tax and QE
  
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  October 4, 2020 4:54pm
lazza

You are forgiven… my son? Not for your sins…. just for your patriarchal “Divines” assumptions. Love Germaine.
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October 4, 2020 8:27am
Natfan08

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
There are rumours going around on Twitter that National’s internal polling has New Conservatives polling at 4.5%!!!

Would this explain why Judith is now all of a sudden saying she is a Christian!?… To try and steal some NC votes???
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October 4, 2020 8:28am
- kowtow
  
  This election is not one for a new party , it’s about getting rid of Lab, Gr ,NZF.
  
  A vote for NC ,unless it’s coming from NZF ,is a vote for a far left govt.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:53am
- lifesgood
  
  Good on her. Not ashamed to voice her beliefs AND how she will vote re cannabis. She will certainly pick up a lot of PI votes by declaring her christianity. Jacinda goes against most of the beliefs of PI culture, e.g value for life, pro drugs (she’s kidding no one…she’s voting yes) and family values of which she clearly has none.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:26am
  - Ruahine
    
    She is voting Yes. Keeping it in the family.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:59am
- Inandout
  
  Natfan, what is wrong with having a belief? Much better than fleeing to the Climate Church of the St Greta variety and praying at the CO2 alter.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:13am
- MCos
  
  The Nats should get a new polling company if that’s what they’re being told.
  
  Apart from that there’s two big issues dominating this election. Who can fight The Bug & restore the economy.
  NZ politics has been free of religious interference for decades & that’s not going to change. Graham Capill put a full stop at the end of that.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:53am
buzzler

Just had a look at Facebook. The Greens have an advert, “Affordable Homes For All”. 250+ comments and not many, if any, favourable comments. The F word is used a lot though!
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October 4, 2020 8:36am
- kowtow
  
  Green Pardy affordable homes could be classified as a Hovel Ready Project.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:56am
- Catgurl13
  
  The Greens think” Rent to Own” is what people should do,when it’s really just a big scam and a high failure rate of not being guaranteed to secure a mortgage on the house in the end. Such a dumb idea. You also lose your part of the deposit and waste your time improving the property.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:45am
  - artemisia
    
    Private sector rent-to-own fell out of the limelight when a few unhappy buyers found they had lost their ingoing (part of the rent) and the media strafed the sellers. Still a few rent-to-own deals around.
    
    The reasons buyers lost out was their own fault as they didn’t keep their end of the deal.
    
    Quite possible similar will happen with a government (taxpayer) arrangement. But a kind government will then have to tip in more money and effort to keep buyers housed so the unkind government stays off the front page.
    
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    October 4, 2020 12:13pm
Don Beckett

So President Trump is fine and in good spirits. He told his doctor he feels just fine and would like to get back to work.
So much for the scaremongering about having to replace the president close to an election, and the dickheads who were hoping he would die – what horrible arseholes.
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October 4, 2020 8:39am
- surfing
  
  It’s amazing and an incredible thing.
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:42am
- frankflintstone
  
  I was hoping they would announce that he was treated with hydroxychloroquine and he made a stunning recovery, but according to reports it was something else.
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:44am
  - Jimmy White
    
    It must be bad a special nurse has flown in from Chicago to treat him with Clorox
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/1/lori-lightfoot-chicago-mayor-dons-rona-destroyer-c/
    
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    October 4, 2020 12:40pm
- NK
  
  How do you know he’s “fine”.
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:45am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    He tweeted it himself.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1312442195509563392
    
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    October 4, 2020 8:56am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Christine Keeler would have known what to think about that.
      
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      October 4, 2020 10:28am
      - chuk
        
        I think you mean Mandy Rice-Davies rather than Christine Keeler: “Well, he would (say that), wouldn’t he?”
        
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        October 4, 2020 11:35am
  - Inandout
    
    NK, of course he is on a ventilator and fighting for his life…oh wait.. no, the left say this C19 is a hoax. I love seeing the left in a quandary.
    
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    October 4, 2020 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    What’s the most likely scenario? He’s fine.
    Most people who test positive are asymptomatic.
    Of the few that show symptoms, most show only mild symptoms.
    Of the few that show significant symptoms, most are at no risk.
    
    Sure, he possibly could be in for a very rough ride, but it is highly unlikely.
    
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    October 4, 2020 9:09am
    - Inandout
      
      cmm, you are too optimistic, and obviously not a socialist.
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:11am
      - cmm
        
        It’s 2020 so anything can happen…
        
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        October 4, 2020 12:47pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      A US Tv host, Joy Reid, Says it’s all a hoax anyway and false news that Trump has coronavirus. He’s just saying he has it to get out of further televised debates with Biden!
      And the people who run twitter are saying they may delete thousands of tweets which say they hope Trump dies.
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:15am
      - Inandout
        
        Gravel, I assumed Biden was already dead.
        
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        October 4, 2020 11:16am
    - krazykiwi
      
      And remember RT-PCR tests detect all sorts of viral fragments left over from a body’s recently successful efforts to thwart a virus. It is therefore possible that Trump has already finished with the disease.
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:16am
      - JackRabbit
        
        We would need a second opinion from Greta on that. Remember she had it, and she confirmed without a medical test. 😉
        
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        October 4, 2020 9:35am
    - IC5000
      
      Why would Trumps doctors place him on an experimental drug treatment if he was ‘fine’?
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:35am
      - surfing
        
        Because it is an incredible thing.
        
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        October 4, 2020 12:45pm
      - IC5000
        
        It’s an incredible thing to place the president on an unproven drug treatment which may have extremely adverse side effects?
        
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        October 4, 2020 2:32pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, it’s a bit tricky. The part where “he told his doctor he feels just fine” could be a clue.
    
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    October 4, 2020 9:11am
    - fernglas
      
      I wish him well, if only so he can demonstrate personally that the virus is not as bad as it’s cracked up to be. Bolsonaro did fine. So should Trump, despite the obvious death wishes from the media.
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:16am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      Having seen the press briefing at Walter Reed, I would be taking any statement with a grain of salt.
      
      Why a doc needed to have another 8 people in White Coats and masks behind him as a backdrop is a mystery to me. It was an exercise in Spin Doctoring.
      
      Nobody actually knows what was said, but we are getting conflicting statements and information on the condition of POTUS
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:21am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘to have another 8 people in White Coats and masks behind him as a backdrop is a mystery to me’
        
        Perhaps someone who knows media stuff could throw some light on that . It seems to me to be an American presentation thingy that has now caught on and everyone does it now , including our muppets who all have to stand in and nod sagely at whoever is the Dear Leader prognosticating.
        
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        October 4, 2020 10:01am
    - frankflintstone
      
      that and his twitter account…
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:24am
    - MCos
      
      Reminds me of a bloke I knew whose family was concerned about their elderly grandfather living alone, so they organised one of those lanyards for him to wear with an emergency button.
      Sure enough one day he fell over and some time later someone found him on the ground. They asked him why he hadn’t pushed the button. Well, he said, you told me it was only for emergencies.
      
      The last thing Trump will admit to is any sort of physical failing that might stop him running for President. You won’t see him use any sort of walking aid.
      
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      October 4, 2020 9:46am
      - kowtow
        
        Roosevelt was very cunning that way and the Media Pardy went along with it .
        
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        October 4, 2020 10:36am
      - Mike
        
        Woodrow Wilson had a stroke and was barely functioning for the final year of his presidency.
        
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        October 4, 2020 11:39am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Hillary was never President and, she had trouble functioning as well . . .
        
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        October 4, 2020 12:53pm
- tas
  
  Trump is in hospital. He is taking anti-virals and receiving experimental antibody therapy. His doctor won’t deny that he was on oxygen earlier.
  Does that sound fine to you?
  
  Will the Trump sycophants here finally accept that COVID is a serious disease?
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:50am
  - fernglas
    
    So all Trump sycophants don’t believe Covid is a serious disease? Does it follow that all those who thing Covid is not a serious disease are Trump sycophants?
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:00am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Nobody has ever claimed it’s not serious in some cases. Some people here think we could have kept many small businesses going safely instead of ruining butchers, bakers, other local shops etc. and instead of taking on far more debt than NZ should have.
    
    Others think the death rate is not as high as some claim. A lot depends on definitions, cases tested and actual covid deaths.
    
    Nobody has said that if you’re old and sick covid can’t kill you.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:12am
  - Jimmy White
    
    There are Fine people on both sides
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:19am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    No, they won’t. It is just a mild flu. This oxygen business is just a bit of fake news.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:42am
  - krazykiwi
    
    There are lots of ‘serious’ diseases. Covid-19 is one of many, and is otherwise unremarkable.
    
    What is truly virulent, and absolutely dangerous for close to 100% of the population is the fear mongering, lying and suspension of civil liberties for which Covid-19 has been a catalyst.
    
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    October 4, 2020 3:10pm
- Exclamation Mark
  
  No doubt someone cleverer than me has thought of this already but this thought occurred to me last night:
  If Trump dies from wu-flu and the yanks find out that the virus was let out of a weapons lab, that would it be considered an act of war and grounds for military action?
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:50am
  - IC5000
    
    > that would it be considered an act of war and grounds for military action?
    
    Nah, just roll Trump style and stiff the Chinese Creditors for a trillion bucks in debt.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:40am
  - MCos
    
    I would suggest few people will give a shit about Trump if for some reason he has to withdraw from the presidential race. The Republicans will be too busy panicking about finding a viable replacement, because Mike Pence won’t cut the mustard.
    I doubt if there’s anyone in the WH who particularly cares for him apart from his family.
    The say if you want a friend in the WH, get a dog.
    
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    October 4, 2020 12:03pm
- Belinda
  
  I want to vote carefully and tactically in this election, if I’m happy with my local member (Nat) who stands a good chance of losing.
  How should I vote, I want National to win and I like David Seymour, I dont want to waste my vote.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:18am
  - Bob
    
    Two ticks BLUE Belinda.
    The important thing at this election is to elect a competent democratic government; this requires the building up of a maximum electoral vote and party vote for NATIONAL.
    David is doing very well as he is; he doesn’t have a strong team of potential ministers at present, but with three years exposure to Parliament some of his chosen may!.. may? become competent ministers. We don’t know much about the ACT support team, only hear about David.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:04am
    - slightlyrighty
      
      Thier #3 on the list has a great resume!
      
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      October 4, 2020 10:25am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Harete Hipango will win Belinda but she still needs your Vote Blue/Blue
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:22am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Belinda.
    
    All parties take votes of other parties. What you have to ask yourself is, where are the votes coming from.
    
    ACT has surged lately, and you have yo ask, where are those votes coming from? The Obvious answer is from National.
    
    However, Labour is losing votes. and Labour have a centrist clique, and a progressive clique. National needs to get enough of the centrist vote to get the center right over the line. Changing your vote from the Nats to ACT wont change that.
    
    The Nats need to pull votes from Labour. That’s all. A vote for ACT will help National as well.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:25am
- Jim
  
  Someone has helpfully compiled a “Compilation of Trump Supporters wishing death for their political opponents“.
  
  Regarding people wishing ill of Trump: you reap what you sow.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:19am
  - RJ
    
    so because some idiots said something it is fine for other idiots to say it as well. Guess you are the guy who copied everything his demented friends did growing up.
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:41am
- MCos
  
  Maybe he’s fine. Maybe still a little bit under the weather.
  The ambivalence is reminiscent of the USSR.
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/03/us/politics/trump-covid-updates.html
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:28am
- Classic Liberal
  
  It’s just been a fascinating few years, seeing how otherwise normal people completely lose their willingness to actually listen when Trump says something.
  
  For those enjoying Schadenfreude: He’s likely to be ok: no vascular or respiratory comorbidities, non smoker, not obese just overweight.
  
  For those thinking ‘it serves him right because of downplaying covid’ – I again watched his actual speeches. Re ‘he called covid a hoax’ – he didn’t, he said the dems’ hoax was to be politicising covid after at first they had ignored it. When he closed the borders the dems called him a xenophobe and Pelosi encouraged people to pack into Chinatown for celebrations.
  
  Re the claim ‘He did nothing and played it down’ – he closed the borders, told people it’s serious and was holding daily meetings about it. But Ok, he didn’t force a nationwide lockdown, destroying the economy and probably causing civil war in the US. Can you imagine how Americans would have reacted to Trump forcing the kind of lockdown we had, cops telling them they’d be going to the cells for leaving their suburb? Also most local decisions are up to governors and mayors in the US.
  
  Maybe waves of extreme lockdowns and resulting unemployment, economic losses and cancelled hospital appointments are better for public health in the long run. We’ll find out over the next while.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:42am
- Ruahine
  
  Fake news I reckon.
  He is just trying to get the sympathy vote.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:49am
- Dr p
  
  I am sure the advice is to stay positive until he has recovered.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:40am
- igm
  
  The nastiest I saw was a posting by Ardern\Little confidant Neale Jones . . . bloody sickening.
  And is he not sucking taxpayers’ tits?
  
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  October 4, 2020 3:02pm
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/Will_of_Ockham/status/1312468182037262337

Beware, trigger warning for BattyBoy.?
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October 4, 2020 8:44am
NK

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/trump-campaign-manager-tests-positive/index.html
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October 4, 2020 8:47am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Who cares? It’s not going to kill them.
  
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  October 4, 2020 8:53am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Unless they get hit by a Bus, then it’ll be listed another covid death.
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:10am
harvey wilson

Alison Mau is says we having a #metoo moment for NZ men.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300122746/the-metoo-moment-for-kiwi-men

She has no credibility though, her reporting on the issues Labour has with predatory behaviour from senior staffers towards teenagers has been token at best.
She posted a submission from a party member alleging the party had an issue with rape culture and that the process for resolving it was so hard and drawn out for the victims they usually give up. No follow up articles from Mau, no interviews with victims , just one article that was buried so the issue can go away quietly.

She has no credibility and neither do Stuff for letting her continue to ignore Labours issues with rape culture while claiming to be at the forefront of the #metoo campaign.
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October 4, 2020 8:53am
- lifesgood
  
  How on earth did someone like Simon Dallow last so many years with her? Beggars belief.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:30am
  - Inandout
    
    life, as we all know a woman can fake it, but not easy for a male of that persuasion.
    
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    October 4, 2020 5:26pm
cmm

Oes noes! Christchurch way above average temperature the last few days.
The week before it was way lower than average.
Funny how averages work.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122973594/way-above-average-warm-temperatures-for-parts-of-the-south-island
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October 4, 2020 9:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes saw that. Stupid journalist. This is the 7 day forecast for Christchurch. In other words totally normal for this time of year. But no it gets a new story.
  
  (Forecast max, degrees C)
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  October 4, 2020 9:14am
- frankflintstone
  
  above average, below average, but all perfectly normal…
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:25am
Benedict Yu

I emphasise – I have nothing against EVs. No doubt they are the vehicle of the future. They will achieve market success when they are fit for purpose relative to price.

But I do object to the Government trying to bribe people to buy them (or worse, the Greens forcing everyone to buy them).

This is an amusing little article from the Government’s publicity agent, ‘Stuff’ (a ludicrous name for a new site.)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/122548778/teething-problems-but-no-exhaust-travel-diary-of-a-road-trip-by-ev

These two women take a return trip from Wellington to Napier in an EV. And a top of the line Audi SUV. It sounded like a novelty trip, and I would jump at the chance of driving one. However, even in this top of the line vehicle they had to charge it five times on the return trip, with charging taking between 20 and 40 minutes each time. The cost of the charging was $64, which would be higher than the cost of petrol in an efficient hybrid EV (Right now a hybrid is far and away the best choice if economy is important – which of course is why sales of hybrids are increasing rapidly.)

So this article under the “climate change” banner was not a great advertisement for EVs. Oh and the article neglects to mention that their vehicle of choice retails for – wait for it – $159,000.

https://www.giltrapaudi.co.nz/model-range/e-tron
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October 4, 2020 9:10am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  To be fair, that was a road trip and using expensive fast chargers. Best use for an EV would be to charge at home at night for about 1/6 the cost of using fast chargers.
  
  The cost of a internal combustion car should also include maintenance. In the four years we’ve owned a Nisan Leaf 100% electric car, we had to purchase two new tires and some windshield wiper fluid – that’s it! Normal WOF and Rego fees of course.
  
  Within very few years the cost of an EV will be the same or lower than an IC vehicle.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:53am
  - rangitoto
    
    How often do you have to replace the battery?
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:39am
    - sooty
      
      2nd hand was it?
      Not as though it’s going to rip big black marks.
      
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      October 4, 2020 11:58am
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        I take it you mean burning rubber (burn outs)?
        
        Never tried but can tell you that little boy racers don’t have a chance when the light turns green. An EV could give them a heads start and still clean their clock. Full torque at zero speed. The IC car has to get the revs up before getting any torque. By then it’s all over.
        
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        October 4, 2020 1:34pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Not often. Don’t know anyone that has had to yet.
      
      A Nisan LEAF taxi in the Netherlands is on 250,000 Km and still using the original battery.
      
      Depends a lot on how you charge, level of charge and depth of discharge. I try not to charge above 80% or discharge below 20% and still only have to plug in once every three days. 95% of my driving is in the town of Whangarei with occasional trips to go to Tutukaka or Whangarei Heads.
      
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      October 4, 2020 1:30pm
- MarkF
  
  Confession, I have an EV and I found that article I little strange. The Audi would be good for 300kms. Wellington to Napier is 320km so it would have only needed 1 stop each way not 3 or 4. Also remember Charge Net charges by both power and time. Considering the short distances between charges they seemed high to me. That said, just for comparison I’ve done 18000km and the “fuel” cost is about $1100.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:02am
  - sooty
    
    Slow charger, could not fill battery.
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:59am
    - kowtow
      
      We’ve had blood diamonds , now we have blood batteries . I don’t know how the smug ev car owners can sleep well at night knowing how many black babies died in some hole in the Congo so they could take short city trips to prove to themselves and their dinner party set how virtuous they are.
      
      King Leopold bad , me good.
      
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      October 4, 2020 2:12pm
- JackRabbit
  
  The EV technology is not there yet. The biggest problem is how many Kilowatts you can poke into a car storage device over what time.
  
  If you want the power in an EV you had in a Petrol or diesel car it s a lot of KW.
  
  We tend to forget that while less efficient, a 60 litre fuel tank on an ICE (internal Combustion Engine) vehicle holds approx 540Kwhr of energy, with a fill up time of say 1-2 minutes.
  
  To get the same range at the same power use in an EV you need at least 100kwhr. A 30 minute charge, is an eye watering 200kw rate of charge. (As batteries improve, charge times can in theory drop). A charge EV station with 12 cars hooked up and you will need the entire output of small hydro station right next to the charging station.
  
  EV Fuel Cell technology is going ahead leaps and bounds. I expect this to overtake grid powered EV in the near future. These also do away with the need for expensive bulky Li-Ion batteries, retaining only a small battery as a buffer.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:12am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    with typical car engine efficiency the 60L fuel tank only holds about 120-150kWh. EV’s will be matching that in a few years.
    
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    October 4, 2020 9:05pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  $159,000. Hmm, so if someone with a million dollar house also had one of these cars: wealth tax!!
  
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  October 4, 2020 12:46pm
  - Inandout
    
    CL, I watched a 1972 Ford XA Falcon Phase4 GTHO being auctioned for AU$2 million. Only 4 were made because the then Oz government freaked out and banned such ‘beasts’ lest they fell into the hands of wayward yoof. Imagine a Tesla of any model fetching such a sum.
    
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    October 4, 2020 1:20pm
Flossie

Auckland central labour candidate Helen White with Jack Tame this morning comes across as vague- and very “scripted”. Also she’s obviously mirroring Jacinda with the frowny noddy effects.
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October 4, 2020 9:19am
Catgurl13

Just watching on Q&A Emma Mellow, Helen White, Chloe Swarbrick. Emma is a very bright competent person, Chloe is dreaming and out of reality and Helen is a bit of a dizzy Lizzy…..she reminds me of Renee Zellweger. Jack Tame is goading Paul Goldsmith for his fiscal mistake but has said nothing at all to Grant about his much bigger fiscal error this past week. This lefty prog makes me sick!!!
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October 4, 2020 9:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I doubt many (if any) undecided voters watch Q&A.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:36am
  - JibberJabber
    
    My wife who watches regularly has finally this morning had a guts full of Jack Tame and his shouty interruptions.
    I wisely kept my mouth shut, yes dear LoL ?
    
    36 1
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    October 4, 2020 10:04am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Yeah, well Jibber – Tame,Campbell and co are all celebrities see?
      Celebrities can say what they like.
      Doesn’t matter it it’s true – just that a celebrity said it.
      Same applies to Ms Ardern – must be true as I saw it a magazine – Ms Ardern described as a celebrity rather than as a leading politician.
      We once had reporters and commentators where it wasn’t all about them on social media – not now.
      PS: can you imagine Bill English or even John Key being described as a celebrity?
      They were proud to be leaders. It wasn’t all about them. It was what was best for NZ.
      
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      October 4, 2020 10:38am
      - Sacha
        
        When does a ‘celebrity’ stop being a celebrity?
        
        Tame and Campbell are nonentities in my book.
        
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        October 4, 2020 12:16pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Tony Stuart last Election you gave me the email address at the electoral Commission to complain about Matt McCarten and slave gate and I recieved a email saying sorry but he had done nothing wrong. Well today I have tried to make a complaint to the electoral commission on Jacinda Ardern about how she is abusing the system on COVID-19 annoucements by promoting her policy and then on questions to the journalists present getting patsy questions to criticize National and Act which today was very pointed. When you need someone to help with a complaint all I got was two people telling me that they don’t take complaints it is nothing to do with them but they still made sure they had my name spelt right. Then finally I was given a email address of there legal team (Legal@Elections.govt.nz) which I would like to know would it be safe to make the complaint as it wasn’t that last Election.
    
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    October 5, 2020 4:51pm
- Flossie
  
  Grant is rude and overbearing
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:44am
  - Inandout
    
    Flossie, isn’t that hate language?
    
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    October 4, 2020 1:21pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Fair comment can never be hate. Truth is often disagreeable to those who don’t practice it. To allow their dislike for that being revealed to prevent contrary opinion removes all freedom of thoughtful expression.
      
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      October 4, 2020 2:05pm
- Lance
  
  Its odd that some ‘commentators’ last week were complaining Judith interrupted Cindy too much (cough cough).
  Grant Robinson talked continuously over the top of Paul, sometimes both Tame and Robinson shouting down Paul at the same time.
  What piece of shit Q+A has become.
  I am slowly disliking Grant Robinson more and more as time goes on and it started from a firm dislike anyway.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:18am
slightlyrighty

We are 2 weeks from polling day.

My Ideal result would be for National and Act to form a government, with the Greens falling below 5%.

However, what happens if the Greens get to 4.9%. They traditionaaly do well in the special votes, and may get over 5% after that. I would hate to see a longer period of uncertainty. While the Nats have to focus on Labour, they can’t take their eye off the Greens.
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October 4, 2020 9:27am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Overseas votes will be far less of a factor this year, with so many ex-pat Kiwis having headed home. Just to be sure though, I’d prefer the Greens to be on 4.6% on election night.
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:37am
- JackRabbit
  
  Lets hope that all the teachers that are pissed with the Greedy Green school, vote National or ACT.
  
  30 1
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  October 4, 2020 9:39am
  - Bob
    
    The Teachers Union has already instructed the teachers how to vote, they probably all voted yesterday as directed by Union secretary.
    
    21 1
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    October 4, 2020 10:09am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Not all teachers do what they are told, and all are not automatons just yet. They teach because they care, and the Green School thing didn’t sit right with them.
      
      14 2
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      October 4, 2020 11:16am
      - sooty
        
        Did the teachers have to submit for marking?
        
        5 1
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        October 4, 2020 12:02pm
- Gravelroad
  
  NZ Election 2020: Shane Jones concedes NZ First can’t rely on Northland seat, vows to kill off Green Party
  I’m still waiting to see how Shane Jones is going with his vow to “kill off the Green Party.”
  Anyone from NZ1 got an update on that?
  
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  October 4, 2020 9:47am
  - kowtow
    
    Labour gave NZF 3 billion of our hard worked for dollars to secure that useless, blow hard ,party hopper a seat to keep NZF ‘s nose at the trough and the result ; zip ,nadda , nothing.
    
    Why aren’t the Media pardy calling out that black hole , fiscal lunacy that is actually as close to the “c” word as you can get ?
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:10am
    - Tall Man
      
      marana did claim that word. She never said she wouldn’t share it with the rest of the greens.
      
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      October 4, 2020 1:14pm
  - Bill Felt
    
    I am willing to help him
    (kill off the Greens!)
    
    15 0
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    October 4, 2020 10:13am
  - Inandout
    
    Gravel, I hear the Greens can be ‘killed off’ with Roundup.
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:23am
- Bob
  
  Probably won’t be so many ‘specials votes’ this year,
  most interested voters are back in NZ
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:08am
  - buzzler
    
    Just cast my vote from overseas. Two ticks Blue.
    
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    October 4, 2020 10:33am
    - sooty
      
      Will the green voters be safely tucked up in NZ and not roaming the world?
      
      6 0
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      October 4, 2020 12:05pm
- Flossie
  
  I really have a problem with that…”polling day”. Isn’t it polling fortnight now?
  What about those rules we used to have, like signs down and no electioneering midnight before the polls open.Why in this day and age do we need two whole weeks in this small country for voting?
  
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  October 4, 2020 1:11pm
alwyn

I finally got around to listening to the Minor Party leader’s debate on TV3 from a couple of days ago.
Winston at one point said that “I am a lawyer”.
He doesn’t have a practicing certificate, or at least he is not registered on the Law Society Register, so isn’t he breaking the law when he makes such a claim?
Any lawyer willing to comment?
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October 4, 2020 9:38am
- FatTony
  
  He’s allowed to say he’s a lawyer because he was admitted to the legal profession, he’s just not allowed to say he’s a practising lawyer if he doesn’t have a current practising certificate.
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:12am
  - fernglas
    
    Not right, FT. If you describe yourself as a lawyer, you have to be entitled to provide legal services, which Winston is not. Plus, he hasn’t practised for millenia. A law degree doesn’t make you a lawyer.
    
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    October 4, 2020 3:21pm
    - alwyn
      
      That is what I thought and there seems to be informed agreement with my view.
      For example
      “A lawyer is a person who holds a current practicing certificate issued by the Law Society, either as a barrister, or as a barrister and solicitor. Any person who does not meet this criterion cannot call themselves a ‘lawyer’ or variations of the term such as ‘legal practitioner’, ‘barrister’, ‘solicitor’, or ‘counsel’.”
      From
      https://www.wynnwilliams.co.nz/Publications/Articles/When-is-a-lawyer-not-a-lawyer
      
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      October 4, 2020 6:12pm
FatTony

538 Forecast: Biden 80% (+2), Trump 20% (-1)
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October 4, 2020 9:57am
- All_on_Red
  
  https://predict2016.sites.stanford.edu/clinton-has-86-chance-winning-tomorrow
  
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  October 4, 2020 10:17am
  - virtualmark
    
    Red, the problem for Trump is that this time he has little opportunity to turn things around given he’s in a hospital.
    
    Even if he makes a miraculous recovery I doubt he can turn things around from here, especially given the dent to his credibility over the last few days.
    
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    October 4, 2020 11:23am
    - virtualmark
      
      I’d also say that McConnell’s intention to still push the Barrett vote through even though 3 GOP Senators have been confirmed with Covid in the last few days suggests that McConnell doesn’t think Trump is going to win on 3 November and doesn’t think a lame-duck President could get it done.
      
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      October 4, 2020 11:26am
    - IC5000
      
      > Even if he makes a miraculous recovery I doubt he can turn things around from here.
      
      If he lives he will not be in any fit state to run the country despite his presidential duties consisting of watching Fox for 8 hours a day and tweeting.
      
      Look at how Boris came through, a shadow of his former self. Sure Boris was a lardass however he did play tennis regularly, biked around and appeared to be a top shagger but got hit for six and had to have a month off. Trump is geriatric, obese and has trouble walking down slight gradients longer than 5 meters.
      
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      October 4, 2020 11:57am
      - Tall Man
        
        He could always follow Obama’s method and preen in front of his mirror all day.
        
        6 4
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        October 4, 2020 1:11pm
      - IC5000
        
        He’s watching himself on TV so already has that end covered
        
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        October 4, 2020 2:03pm
      - Tall Man
        
        This guy?
        
        https://youtu.be/BqzIKKl7n7Q
        
        https://youtu.be/_Xj6fBEvjWk
        
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        October 4, 2020 3:07pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Tall Man
        
        Or go Green and follow Obama and Gore and buy an Ocean Beach waterfront property that uses more power than a small town, and will be underwater in no time from the “rapidly rising” water levels. 😉
        
        2 2
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        October 4, 2020 3:42pm
JibberJabber

The Left…”Jacinda was sent by God”
The rest of us…”Why, was he all out of Locusts and Toads”?
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October 4, 2020 10:00am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I am hearing opinions that the Dems planted the Covid virus at the Whitehouse in an attempt to assassinate Trump. Many others in his team have tested positive.
I would not put it past the Democrats, they are a festering sore and will do anything to win
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October 4, 2020 10:11am
- Chris Morgan
  
  One of the “arrows in the quiver”?
  
  9 1
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  October 4, 2020 10:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Well Chuck said there is more than one way to STOP Trump
    
    3 3
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    October 4, 2020 11:18am
- Jimmy White
  
  This was my thought exactly. Probably not the Dems but a Left wing Business group with lots to loose it Trump gets another Term.
  
  9 4
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  October 4, 2020 10:31am
  - Gravelroad
    
    I blame The Russians and demand a full enquiry….
    
    3 2
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    October 4, 2020 2:00pm
- IC5000
  
  I’m am hearing opinions that Trump purposely infected himself because he didn’t want to face Biden in a debate where the moderator could cut off his mic and muzzle him. Part of Trumps plan was to get the sympathy vote because he’s behind in the polls in several crucial states.
  
  7 31
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  October 4, 2020 10:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Your TDS level is very high today
    
    21 4
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    October 4, 2020 11:19am
    - kowtow
      
      Really weird innit , they just don’t get how f@cken stupid they look peddling conspiracy theories that would have the Left Media Pardy larfing their tits orf if the same looney stuff was being said by the Deplorables of the VRWC !
      
      8 4
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      October 4, 2020 12:19pm
      - IC5000
        
        > Really weird innit , they just don’t get how f@cken stupid they look peddling conspiracy theories
        
        Like a self confessed sex abuser president who is subject to multiple allegations of sexual assault is actually helping to stop a deep state of kiddie fiddlers?
        
        Maybe how the Democratic party was operating a child sex ring in the basement of Comet pizza restaurant despite the restaurant having no basement?
        
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        October 4, 2020 12:55pm
      - cha
        
        Weird alright.
        /
        
        Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I am hearing opinions that the Dems planted the Covid virus at the Whitehouse in an attempt to assassinate Trump. Many others in his team have tested positive.
        I would not put it past the Democrats, they are a festering sore and will do anything to win
        
        5 3
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        October 4, 2020 1:00pm
- FatTony
  
  Or it could be that Trump was simply too bone headed to follow the basic health advice from his own medical experts, and so caught the virus because of his own negligence.
  
  But yeah, could also be a conspiracy. Probably George Soros and the deep state snuck into the White House and put COVID on trump’s cornflakes. Oh, and Bill Gates I guess.
  
  7 13
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  October 4, 2020 11:16am
  - Sacha
    
    I wonder when Jacinda will test positve. She doesn’t wear masks either.
    
    13 3
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    October 4, 2020 12:20pm
    - Sacha
      
      She doesn’t wear masks either.
      
      4 3
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      October 4, 2020 12:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She is immune to everything including common sense and Covid
      
      15 3
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      October 4, 2020 12:34pm
- cha
  
  I hear Trump boarded Marine One with a portable oxygen concentrator in his pocket with the nasal cannula going up his back, hidden in his hair and tucked under his mask. He is not as well as they say.
  //
  
  7 16
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  October 4, 2020 11:27am
  - IC5000
    
    No photos of Trump travelling to Walter Reed have emerged so odds are he was given oxygen treatment en route as a precaution.
    
    3 8
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    October 4, 2020 11:50am
  - RJ
    
    I hear you are making shit up and have no idea of anything. Just idiot troll day
    
    13 2
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    October 4, 2020 12:43pm
    - IC5000
      
      Like everyone here claiming Trump is ‘just fine’ despite having no medical training?
      
      If Trump was having laboured breathing on Thursday and Covid is a Respitory virus then it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that his SPO2 levels would have fallen below 93% and oxygen would be administered as a precaution. Obviously they could have not but that would be stupid.
      
      2 4
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      October 4, 2020 1:09pm
  - Mike
    
    People are saying…
    
    4 0
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    October 4, 2020 1:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I should not have downticked that – I missed the sarc tab
    
    1 3
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    October 4, 2020 1:54pm
Okahu

Given the Rose Garden event for Ms Barrett (as Supreme Court nominee) has turned out to be a super spreader event, perhaps its time to put her up with Typhoid Mary as a woman who has made her place in history through disease.

Question. Who, when there history books are written will have been found to have the greater impact? Typhoid Mary or Covid Amy?
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October 4, 2020 10:39am
- RJ
  
  Looks like it is one of those days where idiots are out making stupid posts
  
  18 4
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  October 4, 2020 11:38am
  - Okahu
    
    Why don’t you have a wee lie down RJ? looks like you might have been triggered by something you poor dear. When you have recovered enough, try this little challenge.
    
    Find the following statement so wrong that even mentioning it is ‘stupid’.
    
    1). It wasn’t a super spreader event
    2). Its impact wasn’t of historic significance
    3). The impact of Typhoid Mary was worse
    4). RJ has a wonderful sense of humour
    
    1 2
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    October 4, 2020 5:20pm
- kowtow
  
  Xi Jinping.
  
  3 2
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  October 4, 2020 12:34pm
Maggie Pie

Finally back home. Went to Parnell for early Mass.
The car radio happened to be on ZB, so on the way i listened to that guy Peter Wolfcamp taking questions about home renovation problems.
The thing that really struck me, was that not one of the DIYer’s who called for advice sounded like they would have been a Kings Old Boy.

Just saying.
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October 4, 2020 10:46am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  What do Kings Old Boys sound like?
  I don’t think I’ve ever met one.
  
  11 2
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  October 4, 2020 11:39am
  - Tall Man
    
    http://www.kingshigholdboys.co.nz
    
    Met this guy?
    
    2 2
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    October 4, 2020 1:08pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Nope.
      
      3 2
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      October 4, 2020 1:37pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Well Maggy, they sound literate ?
        
        1 1
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        October 4, 2020 2:57pm
Happychappy

Jacinda Ardern and Labour are not happy about not being able to eradicate COVID-19 from NZ but have set out on another target in the Health by calling Rheumatic fever a National disgrace.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427554/labour-targets-rheumatic-fever-with-new-healthy-homes-pledge
So a new pledge to harvest votes and sit on their backsides like Helen Clark did in the period between 2000 and 2005 where it was estimate 200 people a year died from this disease. Will this also be another promise like the vaccines that wern’t delivered to those that died trough the Meningococcal outbreak in Northland while Jacinda has been Prime Minister as it is easy to throw money at many health problems but disgracefully when they end up not delivered when need.
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October 4, 2020 11:33am
- BeaB
  
  And this was a disease National was making real progress on until Jacinda kindly dropped the target.
  It’s sad thinking of the missed opportunities of the past three years.
  But the young adore her and that’s what matters. They will have to bear the crippling costs for most of their lifetimes but will do it happily for a PM they love.
  
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  October 4, 2020 11:44am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dropping the target seems to be infectious for Labour. Houses, trees, trains, hospitals ……
    
    9 2
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    October 4, 2020 1:59pm
- Jimmy White
  
  Peter Fraser and Walter Nash both Labour MP’s had a go and failed in eradicating Rheumatic fever.
  Te Cindy should read her history books
  
  11 2
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  October 4, 2020 12:49pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Labour’s main aim seems to be rental inspections. No doubt they’ll make landlords pay for it, so like the HHS they will make this happen.
  
  Then landlords whose tenants don’t bother to ventilate, air and heat the place will be taken to court.
  
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  October 4, 2020 1:03pm
Jack5

Anna Fifield, from today editor of Wellington’s newspaper, the Dominion Post, spelled out her policy in an interview on Radio NZ today.

She’s back in NZ after 20 years working for newspapers overseas, most recently as Beijing correspondent of the Washington Post.

Fifield said she was keen to increase diversity in the paper’s news room, saying “New Zealand is a wonderful multicultural place.” (In fact, according to Wikipedia, on the Fearon index ranks about 102nd in the world by ethnic diversitiy, and by the Alesina analysis is also well down the list).

Fifield wants to boost the arts and culture coverage of the newspaper, because Wellington’s a “two-storey town” and she believes the political side is already well covered.

In the interview, Fifield said that not every view would be given balanced coverage, and cited climate change “denialism” as an example. She also said it wasn’t necessary to give conspiracy theories balanced reporting.

(How many recall the Copernicus-Galileo conspiracy theory about Earth revolving around the Sun? That was a load or rubbish, wasn’t it?)

Fifield said she chose to come back to New Zealand rather than to the United States, where her son was born, because the United States had become toxic and polarised. “I want to raise him as a New Zealander with New Zealand values. I didn’t want to go back to that environment.”

Fifield interviewed:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018766799

Multiculturalism internationally ranked:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level
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October 4, 2020 11:39am
- kowtow
  
  If she really believed we are so multicultural then she print her rag in Hindi or Chinese and see how well that works out for her.
  
  Oh and she can stand down and appoint someone “multicultural” in her place ……..
  
  Wokists all talk about what’s good for the rest of us , but when it comes to actually doing anything ………
  
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  October 4, 2020 2:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Fifield is equally polarised. How can she be certain about science and climate change? What’s she going to say when told they are now “harvesting” electricity out of the unknown? (I kid you not, there is a lot of academic argument as to what is providing commercial quantities of electricity for devices under current tests.)
  
  Never be certain about what you do not understand. Science is not fixed. Newton’s mechanics have been shown to be a special case despite their utility for common use. They work within their boundaries. What we cannot see or evaluate does not disprove its existence or potential influence.
  When political action is involved it’s frequently about power and the resultant control. Covid is an example, some “experts” seeing sky-high deaths but without responsibility for their utterances. That’s not the use of science but stupidity or grabbing advantage of fear for control.
  
  Global warming is presented that way too. When we’ve gone 20+ years without it and the lack of sunspots is reminiscent of a period when there were fairs on an ice bound Thames, certainty is hard to claim. Better to live with change than to deny its existence which we cannot be sure about. I am sure our ancestors would have called us witches or suchlike if we showed them a photograph of an aeroplane in flight.
  
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  October 4, 2020 2:41pm
BeaB

The new Spitting Image in the UK:
“superkiwisocialisticextranicejacinda”
and a very funny puppet baring her colossal teeth behind Trump at the UN.
Pity we have no satire in NZ.
Pity no-one will ever pick up this story from the Times.
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October 4, 2020 11:40am
- All_on_Red
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12367650
  
  2 2
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  October 4, 2020 1:43pm
  - softail 1450
    
    A O R ,,,ha,ha,ha that’s hilarious,LOL.
    I have screen shot it and sent it worldwide.
    
    3 1
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    October 4, 2020 2:35pm
Tasman Terror

A Kings old boy wouldn’t say Aushtralia or communidy. We leave that to high paid unmarried beneficiaries living in Premier house. Just saying.
23 2
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October 4, 2020 11:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah, but even graduates of Castlecliff Kindy don’t say jepradize or double judy.
  
  20 1
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  October 4, 2020 12:07pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fustrading, isn’t it?
  
  8 4
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  October 4, 2020 2:01pm
Mike

I noticed today that we can use te reo to order coffee at McDonald’s. Ka pai.
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October 4, 2020 11:52am
- marcw
  
  Sorry, McDonalds have stopped selling Georgie Pais.
  
  15 1
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  October 4, 2020 12:10pm
- Jack5
  
  PR cunning by McDonalds: the noun for coffee by sound is the same in both languages, for it’s a loan word in Maori.
  
  14 2
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  October 4, 2020 12:13pm
- softail 1450
  
  Mike ,you should ask if they’ll accept KOHA for your grub ,it is afterall a very Maori way of paying for stuff ,you might find the cultural awareness doesn’t go quite that far..
  
  5 2
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  October 4, 2020 2:12pm
Maggie Pie

Can you believe that any so called ‘media personality’ in this country would go so low? What a bitch.

https://twitter.com/rpcnz/status/1312490079055560704/photo/1
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October 4, 2020 11:56am
- sooty
  
  For that one, its not unusual!
  
  17 2
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  October 4, 2020 12:11pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I wish I could call her a carpet bagger.
  
  8 2
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  October 4, 2020 1:32pm
- Swifty
  
  Whereas if anyone tweeted that about Jacinda then it would be quoted and used by the left (and Mau) as examples of how sexist, misogynist New Zealand males are and that we can’t handle having a woman leader.
  
  Honestly, there are times that these people disgust me. They gleefully do the exact same things they excoriate others for doing. I see it all the time.
  
  And they appear to do it with absolute impunity.
  
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  October 4, 2020 2:00pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Aaah, the entitlement of being a celebrity so-called influencer in New Zealand!
  Ms May is just plain awful.
  
  10 2
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  October 4, 2020 2:11pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Reading between the lines, Mau publicly states that she wants Trump dead. Would that also be the view of the others who also front the TV3 Project program? They all need to be challenged on air, whether they support Mau’s position, or otherwise.
  
  5 2
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  October 4, 2020 2:11pm
  - Batman
    
    Reading the between the lines is not enough when accusing someone of wishing death. As it happens, she has specifically said she doesn’t hope he dies.
    
    Disclaimer: I don’t like Alison Mau at all.
    
    3 3
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    October 4, 2020 5:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The United Spot is satire, for those of you without a sense of humour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDRa4rGogc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2xJaWZ1ZS7x4lozhMDxoA1G6EK4z-RkiFGdWhAJ22K1HghLssW_6auyYs
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October 4, 2020 11:58am
Tasman Terror

Do you mean “car pie” rather than “ Ka pai “at Maccas drive in?
13 1
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October 4, 2020 12:19pm
I remember when

Emphasises the need for adequate fire services as forest areas increase.
Fears dozens of houses lost in large MacKenzie Basin fire.
Lake Ohau fire has destroyed at least 20 homes.
It is understood it was sparked by an electrical arc from power lines. The fire is being fanned by strong westerly winds.
About 200 people are gathered at Twizel’s events centre and reports of another 100 or so were at Lake Ohau Lodge.
9 3
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October 4, 2020 12:25pm
- Jimmy White
  
  How dare you Parrot Trump. It’s Global Warming not forest control that caused the fire,
  My heart goes out to all those that have lost their homes.
  
  9 3
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  October 4, 2020 12:55pm
- Swifty
  
  How long until some dishonest person comes on here and attributes Ohau to climate change?
  
  11 3
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  October 4, 2020 1:13pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Will Ms Ardern whizz down there tomorrow wearing a fireman’s helmet for a photo op?
    They are us and all that.
    Another disaster for the gullible to say “isn’t she marvellous”?
    
    13 3
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    October 4, 2020 2:13pm
RJ

Trump talking from hospital, gee doesn’t look as bad as the trolls are making out

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1312525833505058816
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October 4, 2020 12:42pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Looks pale but basically ok. Have you noticed that over the last while he has lost weight? People calling him ‘obese’ are incorrect. At most he is overweight and maybe not even that in the last while. Hard to tell as he has a solid build anyway.
  
  18 3
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  October 4, 2020 1:18pm
  - Inandout
    
    CL, the man is about 6 foot 4 so he towers over most people.
    
    13 3
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    October 4, 2020 1:34pm
  - surfing
    
    Looks obese to me.
    
    3 16
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    October 4, 2020 1:46pm
    - softail 1450
      
      surfing ,his bank balance is certainly obese is yours?
      
      3 2
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      October 4, 2020 2:06pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Should have gone to Specsavers
      
      14 4
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      October 4, 2020 2:07pm
    - gorse
      
      I understand he wears body armour all the time. This is what makes him look large.
      
      5 2
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      October 4, 2020 3:02pm
      - Batman
        
        Does he wear a bullet proof vest over his arse? A surprising place to wear one tbh.
        
        2 9
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        October 4, 2020 5:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Bullet-proof incontinence pants?
        
        1 5
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        October 4, 2020 6:53pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I would imagine a high velocity round in the arse would be rather unpleasant so why not?
        
        3 1
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        October 4, 2020 7:36pm
  - cmm
    
    Oh FFS, there’s obese and there’s OBESE.
    
    Trump is around BMI 31. That is technically marginally obese. Hardly worse than overweight and certainly not morbidly obese (BMI 40+).
    
    The way BMI works is unfair to tall people in that a well proportioned body increases volume (and thus weight) according to the cube of height, but BMI only uses the square of height.
    
    A person 6ft 4 with a BMI of 31 is not as podgy as a short-arse with a BMI of 25.
    
    17 3
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    October 4, 2020 2:23pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      BMI is a ruff as guts indicator of obesity.
      When Richie McCaw was ABs captain his BMI put him in obese category!!!!
      
      6 2
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      October 4, 2020 3:43pm
- Mike
  
  Thoughts and prayers.
  
  11 3
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  October 4, 2020 1:26pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Uptick for that sonny
    
    4 5
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    October 4, 2020 2:08pm
Rusty

If I heard this right, if Donald Trump and vice president Pence both died then Nancy Pelosi becomes president of the USA.

Scary stuff!
14 4
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October 4, 2020 1:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What if Nancy dies too? She is 80 and drinks a shitload of piss
  
  11 5
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  October 4, 2020 2:10pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Secretary of State I believe …Mike Pompeo?
    
    5 1
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    October 4, 2020 2:19pm
- cmm
  
  What happens if an asteroid comes and hits the Whitehouse???
  
  C’mon: Change of Trump dying is very low (way less than 10%) and chance of Pence dying is less again.. so we’re talking less than 1%.
  
  10 6
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  October 4, 2020 2:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump is going to die one day – we all are. That is the logic the fuckheads are using
    
    4 7
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    October 4, 2020 2:55pm
Wayne1749

Great to see a photo of Collins praying in church!
https://tinyurl.com/y54shrym

When is the last time we have seen that from a PM!

The centre-right in NZ has for far too long been defined as right only by fiscal conservatism, not be moral or cultural conservatism. Conservative voters thus find appeal in whacko groups like New Conservatives etc.

New Zealand’s defining culture it seems at the moment is woke identity politics. There must be an alternative from a mainstream political party, of sensible moral conservatism.

Indeed such a move would appeal to many Pacific and Asian immigrant voters, who come to NZ precisely because it is a well run Western country with what they assumed to be the civilizational values informed by Christianity.
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October 4, 2020 2:12pm
RW Capitalist

Are we losing the brashness and bravery of youth?
The generation before mine went to war to stop war coming to them.
My generation traveled the world, not just to another country to see what was there, and play with their toys.
Personally (and I’m no hero or exceptional, there were many doing it), I went to Australia for no particular reason. Where In lived in a youth hostel for over a year and worked in a menial job at a tannery.
After that bought a ticket to the USA with the intent to travel on to Europe (UK).
Reason, because nearly everyone else was going through Asia.
I had a little green book with addresses of all the people I met in Sydney.
LA….met a friend from Sydney and stayed at his sisters house.
hitch hiked to San Diego stayed
Hitch hiked back to LA
stayed
Hitched to San Fransisco stayed
on Vancouver via Portland Oregon
Victoria vancouver island
On to Calgary stopping in the rockies (Canoe on the Shuswap lake…..what a place
Calgary to Grand Prairie and back
On through more of Canada, down into North Dekota to Minneapolis/ St Paul, up to Deluth, west side of Lake superior around to Toronto, to kingston, Ottowa, Montreal, Quebec city, Frederickton, Charlotte town PEI (before there was a bridge.) and down to Boston Mass.
ALL hitchhiking.
What an adventure and I will remember every minute.
Now this was an OE, met many generous people.
This only the American leg.
Any others done this?…speak up.
Now any under 25’s done this?
When I did it there were literally 1000’s doing the same, from all over the world.
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October 4, 2020 2:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/governor-cuomo-generously-offers-to-house-trump-at-one-of-his-finest-nursing-homes/?
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October 4, 2020 2:38pm
Jack5

The New Zealand “edition” of the Guardian has picked up the Radio NZ story about the Maori woman teaching other women to hunt, so they can “put food on the table”.

An extract”

The Maori woman prioritises women in need for her free trips – beneficiaries, solo mothers and survivors of trauma. The women don’t shoot for fun; they shoot to feed their families.

The report also quotes the hunter, Pania Tepaiho Marsh, saying:

“When families fall apart, the kids so often end up with the women. We need to make sure those women – especially in an economic crisis like Covid – that these women are fine, that they can still feed their kids.”

Flaws in this strategy were pointed out when the story surfaced at Radio NZ.

A .308 rifle (the calibre Marsh is reported using) ranges from about $800 (second hand) to $6000 at Gun City. A reasonable scope will cost from about $150 up. Ammunition for the .308 will typically cost $2.50 to $3 a round.

That’s before footwear and clothing for the bush, a good knife, and a pack frame to carry the meat on.

Then the mums will need transport to and from the bush. Plus a firearms licence with the required safety course to be taken. And a safe for the rifle. This will cost from $150 to $2,000.

A cheap alternative to shopping at the butcher?

If you go to the Guardian web site through VPN, so it doesn’t know what country you are logging in from, you won’t see this report in the Guardian UK edition, nor in the Guardian International edition. The newspaper seems to run an unofficial edition for New Zealand.

Ardern does feature in the official UK edition, however. The subject is the trans-Tasman bubble Australia is trying to set up.

The hunting for food report in the NZ “edition”:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/03/priceless-skill-the-maori-hunter-helping-women-swap-the-food-bank-for-the-rifle
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October 4, 2020 2:38pm
Maggie Pie

Tucker Carlson just saying “…..the timing of Trump getting the China Virus was a pretty strange coincidence”

hmmm
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October 4, 2020 2:41pm
- Mike
  
  Tucker Carlson says lots of things. Fox News recently claimed in court that no one should rely on him for factual accuracy.
  
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  October 4, 2020 2:49pm
- Stu2
  
  Have you seen pictures of the White House Rose Garden event a week ago? Hundreds of Republican and legal elites crammed in like battery hens. And maybe 10-15% mask wearing.
  
  And there was an indoor reception too.
  
  Really stupid.
  
  The list of those infected is still growing. Three republican senators at last count, which means they might have to hold off on the supreme court vote until very close to the election
  
  The only thing that is strange is that he was managed to avoid the virus for so long, given the numbers of people he comes close to
  
  5 2
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  October 4, 2020 2:52pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Fraser House basement dwellers are out in full force today
  
  14 9
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  October 4, 2020 2:54pm
  - lifesgood
    
    They’ve all be called in. Desperate times need desperate measures.
    
    8 2
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    October 4, 2020 3:52pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Bugger – been off line today so didn’t get my fair share. Other way of looking at it – they are getting really worried and looking to see what ideas they can pinch from you guys but can’t help trolling….
    
    5 1
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    October 4, 2020 5:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Walkaway march. Tell me again, Trump will not win. Walkaway means they have had a gutsful of the Democrats.
https://twitter.com/RepVernonJones/status/1312529975136804864?s=20&fbclid=IwAR2f-kt9BF65H-JgYhaRVp7wvysS7yW1t7K3XKi5XFtwPWWFMVUxqbTono4
9 6
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October 4, 2020 2:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden going for a skate? OANN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFUjtsxb3OI
7 7
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October 4, 2020 3:04pm
- lifesgood
  
  Chickens coming home to roost, eh?
  
  5 2
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  October 4, 2020 3:51pm
theoldbloke

Can somebody tell me who is in charge of policy at the met office.
Why does a government enterty keep referring to some foreign country Aotearoa???
The parliament names the country. Currently New Zealand and all gummint communications should refer to the countries official name. Or the stupid woke met office and their minister needs their arse kicked
14 2
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October 4, 2020 3:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Aotearoa is some place I don’t want to be. NZ is OK
  
  10 4
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  October 4, 2020 5:58pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  MetService is a SOE.
  
  Minister in charge of SOEs – Winston Peters
  Associate Minister in Charge of SOEs – Shane Jones.
  
  8 2
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  October 4, 2020 6:06pm
SB2

Despite the apparent puzzling elevated status of Osteopathy in the US ( compared to here and elsewhere) it still appears to have crank connotations as we see here ,

Sean Conley: the doctor who agreed to Trump taking hydroxychloroquine

The US navy veteran who is qualified in osteopathic medicine concluded the ‘potential benefit outweighed the risks’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/19/sean-conley-doctor-who-agreed-trump-taking-hydroxychloroquine
1 11
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October 4, 2020 3:57pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Perhaps you’d like to enquire why our Ministry of Health and ACC support Osteopathic practices here in NZ.
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/regulation-health-and-disability-system/health-practitioners-competence-assurance-act/responsible-authorities-under-act
  
  7 1
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  October 4, 2020 7:47pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Because organisations make stupid mistakes quite often?
    Osteopathy is quack medicine.
    
    2 7
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    October 4, 2020 7:52pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Oh dear,
      Looks like your tax $$$$ are supporting the training of Osteopaths.
      https://www.ara.ac.nz/study-interest-areas/nursing-midwifery-and-medical-imaging/osteopathy/
      
      5 1
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      October 4, 2020 8:53pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, my taxes support all sorts of things of which I don’t personally approve. It’s possible you don’t approve of every item of public expenditure either. And osteopathy is still quack medicine, regardless of who pays for it.
        
        0 0
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        October 5, 2020 6:38am
  - RJ
    
    Yeah, very bizarre that the troll is attacking someone like this dr. This is the same troll who claimed covid was a nothing, that people were fear mongering and scaring people. Obviously the troll is only allowed to support something when Jacindy says it is ok to support it
    
    5 2
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    October 4, 2020 8:11pm
- RJ
  
  And still more qualified in his little finger than you, troll.
  
  4 1
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  October 4, 2020 8:09pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Calling me a troll is very hurtful, and makes me sad.
    
    0 0
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    October 5, 2020 6:39am
gump

I’m not a fan of Winston Peters. But every so often he pops out a zinger that reminds us why he survived so long in politics.

This is his response to Judith Collins holding a photo op in a church to ensure that she was photographed praying:

https://mobile.twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1312586004038000641
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October 4, 2020 4:53pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  sick burn
  
  4 4
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  October 4, 2020 6:56pm
- kowtow
  
  Cheap shot , by the media and all the attackers.
  
  Context , from stuffed.
  
  ‘Arriving at St Thomas Anglican Church in Tāmaki to cast her vote – early voting opened on Saturday – Collins was invited by Reverend Bob Driver to pray.’
  
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  October 4, 2020 7:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Mods say include something that tells the subject of the post. There ya go, it is YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJecWvOTIT8
1 10
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October 4, 2020 5:02pm
Happychappy

Jacinda and Labour must be having bad dreams as they have decided to put all their eggs in one basket for the later part of the Election campaign by going all out on how Labour and Jacinda saved NZ from COVID-19.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/nz-election-2020-labour-party-releases-new-tv-ad-focusing-on-covid-19-recovery.html
This shows just how short of policy they can come up with and how weak they are in capable MP’s that they find Jacinda is all they have left to keep them in power
20 1
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October 4, 2020 5:16pm
- greybeard
  
  On the 2am and 3am NewstalkZB news this morning
  ( Monday ) there was an item on the Auckland Harbour Bridge repairs.
  He referred only to “Waka Kotahi”, and never mentioned “NZTA” at all. Not sure if many listening would know what he meant.
  
  2 1
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  October 5, 2020 7:05am
Fletch

The news presenters and the Maori on the network news – just quit it!! Getting tired of it. Even the Mobil ad during the break had Maori subtitles – for what??
12 5
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October 4, 2020 6:48pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It should come with a trigger warning for snowflakes, so they can turn off the news and stay in their safe spaces.
  
  3 13
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  October 4, 2020 7:37pm
  - Jack5
    
    You could always post in Maori, ~~Mikaere~~ Milky. Don’t forget the macrons! ?
    
    6 2
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    October 4, 2020 8:33pm
Tauhei Notts

Sunday afternoon in the pub for a couple of handles.
I will party vote Labour, said an employer of 20, because I don’t want Labour beholden to those Green cnuts.
I thought, outside over a coffin nail, I last heard that idea 21 years ago when it was apparent that Clark would win.
That employer is not dyslexic. I was just trying to be polite.
5 1
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October 4, 2020 8:32pm
Tall Man

Have any in the MSM asked cindy if she knows sroubek/antolik and bothered to do any research?

Has anyone asked why Ritchie hardcore thanked cindy when she claimed to have no input into the decision?
5 2
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October 4, 2020 9:07pm

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