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September 26, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 September 2020

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General Debate

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Sigmund Freud

They put me under lock down and you did nothing.

They made me wear a mask and you did nothing.

They put me under curfew and you did nothing.

They made the vaccine mandatory and you did nothing…

Freedom is lost one right at a time until it’s all gone.

AT LEAST I TRIED… I’M OFF TO THE PROTEST TODAY 12:00 PM AOTEA SQUARE
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September 26, 2020 8:00am
- 3-coil
  
  Sigmund – you are well within your rights to protest today at Aotea Square! Our Prime Minister was showing off the the new (Auckland) level 2 social distancing rules on tv Thursday night: it’s now ok to hug, kiss, cuddle with complete strangers…although they were muslims she was groping (so there may be a subclause to check) but otherwise fill your boots!
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:22am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    “… it’s now ok to hug, kiss, cuddle with complete strangers…”
    
    And I guess that consent is no longer required under Labour rules 😉
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:37am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Not since the Labour introduced Junior Labour Camps
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:33am
      - sooty
        
        If you have a Labour party card, it’s open slather.
        
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        September 26, 2020 10:46am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  And good luck to all your fellow anti-vaxxers, 1080 ‘activists’, 5G alarmists, and other assorted loonies.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:24am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    thanks 🙂
    
    you sound much like a tool I know in invercargill, same attitude same level of trolling same idealogy same scared sheeple mentality. hes even a mike too, maybe its the name that does it?
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:35am
  - fernglas
    
    I don’t subscribe to any of those schools of thought, but I do not believe that the approach taken by this Government is the correct one, nor do I believe that it has been properly directed by the science. I saw Siouxsie Wiles on twitter saying that her “expert” views could not be formed independent of her politics, and I fear that politics has trumped evidence and rational discourse in this debate. So don’t go sticking labels on people who do not grovel before the approach to which we are being subjected. Try looking at the issue, not the noisiest proponents. You might be surprised
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:37am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    Thanks. It’s working!!!
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:37am
  - Lee C
    
    Wanker.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Not very nice, but true
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:05am
    - JackRabbit
      
      M’n’M casts a wide net when insulting and denigrating others. If you have doubts about a particular vaccine, you are automatically an anti-vaxxer, and as far as Mike is concerned also a flat-earther, 5G alarmist, and a loonie.
      
      Labelism is a tool used a lot by lefties.
      
      “the incessant need to declare that those who disagree with you much be given a Label– such as Racist, Sexist, Misogynist, Bigot, etc.”
      
      https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=labelism
      
      Rather than enter into rational debate of specifics, they resort to attacking the credibility of the opponent by way of lies, innuendos, and labelism.
      
      These are often traits observed in children before they grow up and mature. Also often seen in immature adults who have not mentally progressed beyond childhood. Respect is an adult attribute. Those who do not respect or communicate like adults, are stuck seeing life through the eyes of delinquent child.
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:17am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Please, please could you give me a link to the ‘research’ about Martian colonisation of Earth. I tried hard to find it, but the clogosphere is quite dense, so I’d appreciate your guidance.
        
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        September 26, 2020 9:40am
      - alwyn
        
        “Labelism is a tool used a lot by lefties”.
        Come, come. It is also something often used by the average contributor to this blog.
        When we see a typical comment by Mike we tend to think, and often say, “Idiot”.
        I do it quite routinely. But then I think he is an idiot.
        
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        September 26, 2020 9:45am
      - herb1
        
        “Labelism is a tool used a lot by lefties.”
        A useful tool when you don’t have the intellect or knowledge to craft a sound rebuttal.
        
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        September 26, 2020 9:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @alwyn
        
        You are correct. M’n’M has earned that label.
        
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        September 26, 2020 10:30am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @mikenmildagain
        
        Another attempt at denigration.
        
        Idiot.
        
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        September 26, 2020 10:32am
      - Jimmy White
        
        Mike please find attached the link you are looking for. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36
        
        This study has more Truth about it than any of these: https://www.union.org.nz/category_media/climate-change/
        
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        September 26, 2020 11:33am
  - Roberta
    
    Yes there are a few if those present, but most people I saw there were good honest hardworking Kiwis who are concerned about the damage Jacinda Ardern is causing to our country.
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:03am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Another unwarranted smear, eh Mikenmild?
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Not a smear. The lockdown protests have attracted all sorts of nutcases.
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:41am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You wrote all your fellow anti-vaxxers, 1080 ‘activists’, 5G alarmists, and other assorted loonies.
        
        What evidence is that these folks are anything to do with Sigmund?
        
        Why did you use the possessive “Your” if it wasn’t meant as a smear?
        
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        September 26, 2020 11:22am
      - Jimmy White
        
        Though I saw you there
        
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        September 26, 2020 11:34am
      - lifesgood
        
        So I take it you will be there, then, mm.
        
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        September 26, 2020 12:36pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    You are a disgusting human being. Be ashamed.
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:13am
  - Observer of Life
    
    You are a sad little tw@t MnM
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:20am
  - RJ
    
    Yes, let’s all rush out and have a vaccine that is being rushed out and not going through the substantial testing it should be.
    
    I will continue to follow my GPs advice to not touch this vaccine over the advise of some labour troll who thinks sexual abuse is a minor offence
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:36am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Any vaccine that is made available in NZ will have had to go through registration as for all other vaccines at Medsafe.
      
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      September 26, 2020 11:11am
  - Grizz
    
    Sadly MM, this is a myth perpetuated by the media. Most people opposed to the current lockdown strategy are not on this train. Only those on the fringes of society see it as a 5G conspiracy or whatever trip they may be on.
    
    Most are capable of rational thoughts, probably see the pandemic as little threat to the young (not elderly) and healthy hence want the government to drop the nonsensical approach of elimination, adopt strategies to live with it, protect the vulnerable and allow the majority to go about their business.
    
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    September 26, 2020 10:28am
  - bruceavon
    
    Well I was at the first protest and I have to say there is some truth in what mikenmildagain says. There seemed to be a lot of weird protest characters there unrelated to just anti-lockdown. The marches since seem to be attracting more “normal” folk, but there were certainly a lot of weirdos at the first one.
    
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    September 26, 2020 10:59am
- Chris R
  
  Good thinking but please advise who the “you” is who did nothing in 2020. There are many of us who detest the filthy creep of socialist control so evident in NZ in 2020. Did we all really do “nothing.” I don’t think so and resent the contrary suggestion. Many of us have protested in our own ways but were we listened to? Now THAT is the acid test. Good luck for the protest!
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:26am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    Sigmund apologises.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:38am
- Observer of Life
  
  I’m out of town otherwise I’d be with you to show how I feel about all this BS
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:23am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Let me know who the other person that was attending. Thanks Sigmund Fraud.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:35am
- MCos
  
  I don’t know what country you’ve been in. You must feel blessed to be in NZ.
  Nobody’s been made to wear a mask, except on public transport, there hasn’t been a curfew, no vaccine is mandatory.
  Unlike Belarus nobody will be arrested for protesting.
  Unlike Russia opposition leaders won’t be poisoned.
  Unlike Thailand dissenters won’t disappear.
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:14am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Yet.
    
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    September 26, 2020 3:45pm
- Aunty
  
  Hysterical trite nonsense. You should be ashamed of yourself.
  
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  September 26, 2020 11:47am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  DIRTY
  
  It was dirty when Tedros told people to travel
  It was dirty when sick people were put next to the old and the vulnerable
  It was dirty when the media lied
  It was dirty when the nurses danced
  It was dirty when death certificates were faked
  It was dirty when Hancock said, “Test, test, test!”
  It was dirty when they locked down the well
  It was dirty when they let people die alone
  It was dirty when they closed the borders
  It was dirty when they crashed the economies
  It was dirty when Gates said everyone must be vaccinated
  It was dirty when Gates said the next one will get attention this time
  It was dirty when Fauci and The Lancet said hydroxychloroquine was no good
  It was dirty when they used ineffective tests with false positives
  It was dirty when they made the children wear masks
  It was dirty when they put people in isolation
  It was dirty when they enacted laws destroying human rights
  It was dirty when the politicized police arrested people for not wearing a mask
  It was dirty when the politicized police beat innocent protesters in the street
  And no matter how much they sanitize
  The complicit will never be clean
  
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  September 26, 2020 6:50pm
CJames

Who said party political ads have to be boring? The Texas Republicans certainly think outside the box. https://youtu.be/Wd6b_8OlwXU
For all their failure to present unflawed presidential candidates, in the USA a lot of those standing for the House in marginal seats have real backstories. That is a pleasant contrast with NZ.
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September 26, 2020 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  a lot of those standing for the House in marginal seats have real backstories
  
  Too true. Like Marjorie Taylor Greene:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjorie_Taylor_Greene
  Great back story there of peddling conspiracy theories and racism.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:28am
  - CJames
    
    Good old Milky – can always be relied upon to post a link from that mast impartial of sources, Wikipedia. And she is so off the wall, there is not even a Democrat standing against her.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Perhaps you could explain why having Q Anon enthusiast will becgood for the congress…
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:42am
      - CJames
        
        Because then Washington Post and Ms Pelosi will have a target to rail against. Maybe that will distract them from worrying about how to deal with a second term President Trump.
        
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        September 26, 2020 10:09am
  - Nukuleka
    
    What a dreary sour saddo you are, milkey.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:44am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Knowing nothing about Q’Anon, except from what he/she publishes and knowing nothing about M’n’M except what he publishes on KB in the form of uncontrolled Technicolour Yawns, I’d trust Q’Anon any day over M’n’M.
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:42am
    - RichardX
      
      We know you have problems finding trusted sources, after all, you believe science states that Earth was colonised by Martians.
      
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      September 27, 2020 8:42am
- Jules99
  
  Wow, that’s amazing. I was expecting to see Alex Jones pop out at some point though.
  
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  September 26, 2020 12:06pm
mikenmildagain

Happy Dominion Day!
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September 26, 2020 8:01am
- Tony Stuart
  
  As a child, I always thought Dominion Day had something to do with Wellington’s morning newspaper!
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:14am
  - lazza
    
    As a child, Dominion day seemed to me to have a lot to do with either Sid Holland or Walter Nash … little kiwi flags (unchanged) and brass bands plus Dad lugging his flagons home from the pub.
    
    In other words “yesteryear ” …
    
    Dom Day is not very 2020 ehh?
    
    Maybe swap it and Labour Day for a Matatini hol?
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:28am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Swop labour day for a martini?
      
      Excellent idea!
      
      Got any more prof?
      
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      September 26, 2020 8:53am
  - alwyn
    
    That wasn’t an irrational belief actually, although the causation was the other way round.
    The paper was first published on September 26, 1907 which was the day New Zealand achieved Dominion status. That is why the paper was given its name.
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:50am
- MCos
  
  Technically NZ is still a Dominion, that is to say a ‘self-governing colony’.
  God Save the Queen is one of our national anthems.
  Denmark is the only other country with two.
  
  Not many countries left in the world whose Head of State can never be one of it’s citizens.
  Do something about that if you love freedom so much Sigmumd Freud!
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:28am
  - Tall Man
    
    Again, a half truth.
    
    How about you elaborate how having the Queen as out head of state reduces our freedom?
    
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    September 26, 2020 12:44pm
  - alwyn
    
    “Head of State can never be one of it’s citizens.”
    Why not? I cannot see any reason why the UK Monarch couldn’t have dual citizenship of the UK and New Zealand.
    If the Duchess of Cornwall had been born in New Zealand rather than the UK Prince George would be a New Zealand citizen.
    Prince Harry’s son Archie has dual citizenship of the UK and the US.
    
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    September 26, 2020 1:01pm
    - MCos
      
      So you’re saying Edward VII had German citizenship, George V had Danish citizenship and Prince Charles has Greek citizenship?
      
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      September 26, 2020 2:59pm
    - Flossie
      
      How would George become a NZ citizen by virtue of the fact that his step grandmother being born here?
      
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      September 26, 2020 3:55pm
      - alwyn
        
        Whoops. You are quite right.
        I meant to say Duchess of Cambridge. There are so many of that ilk that I am easily confused.
        
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        September 26, 2020 5:05pm
artemisia

So one person complains about food in MIQ and is eating only carrots, snow peas, tomatoes, nuts and seeds, delivered at her cost. The media tells the world since it is such astonishing news.

Taxpayers say very sorry you have to buy in food you like. Though why someone would choose only raw veges and seeds over the vast delivery menu available is anyone’s guess.

I hope Julia Hawker, 59, realises that a large number of New Zealanders are now going to say Hi Karen when they pass her in the street.

PS The free food looked OK to me, similar to airline meals. Did I mention free? And taxpayers?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122891823/covid-19-hungry-hotel-guest-in-quarantine-labels-blasts-terrible-food
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September 26, 2020 8:04am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  for half the folk theyve rounded up in the community and put in MIQ that food would be a huge improvement for their diet… can you get withdrawl from maccas and kfc?
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:30am
- Tall Man
  
  Easily fixed, stay the fuck where you were rather than come here and whinge.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:18am
  - Happychappy
    
    Tall Man do you think Jacinda Ardern will re- employ the sexual deviate that worked out of her office again if she and Labour are re-elected for a second term and can govern alone. I’m asking this as he was a vital senior advisor before the questions were asked being a stranger to the truth and very devious it wouldn’t surprise me if she did.
    
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    September 26, 2020 11:00am
    - Tall Man
      
      I would be stunned if she hadn’t already, after all, the complainant has been silenced.
      
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      September 26, 2020 1:14pm
fernglas

A Spanish government report shows that one third of Spaniards would accept a Covid-19 vaccine, one third are reluctant but might be persuaded and one third would refuse to be vaccinated. How is the mood in this country? If you and any minor dependents would accept a vaccine if one became available by June 2021, give me an uptick. If you would not, give me a downtick.
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September 26, 2020 8:08am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  I am no anti-vaxer (I plan to get the shingles vaccine this year) but I am concerned at the speed these vaccines are being brought to market. The last time this happened there were a number of side effects and this one apparently comes with a no sue the manufacturer in case of defect clause.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:13am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Having observed events over the past 6 months, I cannot see any rational justification that would lead to my receiving a Covid-19 vaccine.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:18am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Do your or your family receive vaccinations for anything ?
      
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      September 26, 2020 11:18am
    - Dave Mann
      
      I agree. I’m not an anti-vaxer either and I fully support vaccination against serious shit like polio, measles, hepatitis etc, but I have never had a flu shot and I certainly wouldn’t have a covid vaccine either.
      
      It’s about risks vs benefits. Vaccines take the place of the body’s NATURAL ability to develop immunity. So, whereas polio for example is a real threat that no sane person would want to play around with, neither the flu nor this ‘novel coronavirus’ represent a serious enough threat to any healthy person to warrant all this fear and panic.
      
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      September 26, 2020 12:04pm
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Immunisation is very often about protecting others in community rather than yourself.
        
        If, for example a Covid vaccine was available early next year and vaccination of a large enough portion of the population meant that we could move to open borders and economy would that change your view ?
        
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        September 26, 2020 1:44pm
      - fernglas
        
        Good question, Doc, but I think the country’s altruism has been fully taxed already.
        
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        September 26, 2020 4:12pm
      - Dave Mann
        
        Hi Doc thanks for engaging. No I wouldn’t get vaccinated because I think that it’s much more healthy long-term to develop natural immunity.
        
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        September 27, 2020 12:21am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Northshoredoc
      Yes. But how are other vaccines relevant to any proposed Covid-19 vaccine, other than that they all contain the word ‘vaccine’?
      
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      September 26, 2020 12:44pm
      - Northshoredoc
        
        I was wanting to know if you were anti immunisation or just anti this potential immunisation.
        
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        September 26, 2020 1:40pm
  - mark15
    
    Who gives a vaccine manufacturer an immunity from prosecution?
    Does someone on my behalf?
    I didn’t give anyone permission.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:22am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      WHO, When a pandemic is declared the rulebook gets brushed asside.
      
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      September 26, 2020 8:36am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        It should be WHO?
        
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        September 26, 2020 5:41pm
    - peterwn
      
      There are legal ramifications here. it is possible that you need to give the vaccine manufacturer legal immunity from lawsuits when you receive the vaccination. Because of ACC there may be hurdles suing the manufacturer in a NZ court, but you may be able to sue the manufacturer in a foreign court.
      The manufacturer may need to be shown to be ‘negligent’ (on the balance of probabilities) for a lawsuit to succeed. There is no ‘strict liability’ on the part of the manufacturer.
      Basically if you do not trust the vaccine, do not have it.
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:22am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    I have been vaccinated against everything but I also am not going to get vaccinated with something rushed to market so quickly.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:30am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Don’t worry Wangas, we’ll be a long way down the queue to get it.
      
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      September 26, 2020 10:21am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Correct – most of Europe, Nth America, Australia and many states in Asia will be sorted before we are.
        
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        September 26, 2020 11:20am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Tax payers last?
        
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        September 26, 2020 5:45pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    A polio epidemic is sweeping through Africa, caused by a polio vaccine.
    
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/polio-vaccine-causing-polio-outbreaks-in-africa-who-admits/
    
    Pasteur, Jenner and Hilleman would roll over in their graves the way the Covid-19 outbreak was created. It is no secret that two labs involved in vaccine research on Corona Viruses had containment breaches in the months immediately prior to Covid-19. One in the USA and the one in Wuhan.
    
    Play with fire and get sloppy, you will get burnt.
    
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    September 26, 2020 8:59am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Please, you can’t seriously be placing credence in a known and widely-discredited ant-vaxxer website?
      
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      September 26, 2020 10:25am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “…a known and widely-discredited anti-vaxxer website?”
        
        I suppose you think the CDC is now an anti-vaxxer website, since they confirm it?
        
        https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6845a4.htm
        
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        September 26, 2020 10:38am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      bollocks – this site and the authors therein are cranks frauds and lollygaggers
      
      https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/robert-f-kennedy-jr-s-harlem-vaccine-forum-a-disastrous-antivaccine-forum/
      
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      September 26, 2020 11:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I will take it after Jaspinda does
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:12am
    - fernglas
      
      You mean the leadership she has shown in taking a test, wearing a mask, and practising social distancing? Do as I say, not as I do. Do you think she will turn up on the first day of vaccinations with Neve and allow her to be inoculated? Perhaps one of these limp-wristed reporters who claim they have been pilloried for asking the tough questions would like to ask her that.
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:24am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      she will get a shot of saline infront of the cameras and be declared our saviour once again
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:40am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        You mean another lie? Never! //
        
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        September 26, 2020 10:25am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Based on her non-compliance of lockdown rules throughout the lockdown, suffice to say you would have to tie her down and administer it to her yourself to be assured she took it.
      
      She would be likely to resist, as any leader of state should, since it needs to be fully tested. Since they do not know the effects/side effects of a vaccine until they test it on live humans, we are the guinea pigs.
      
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      September 26, 2020 9:49am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Willl she take it like the Premier of Queensland took the flu injection, appears she managed to get the vaccine without a needle being inserted.
      What you are told you are seeing is not always what is actually happening.
      
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      September 26, 2020 1:28pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep, all smoke and mirrors…
        
        like when Bloomfield pretended to take the adult covid swa .. but had the child’s version (less intrusive).
        
        At their next meeting, testing was the main subject. “I had to bring it up. ‘Ashley, you need to fess up. You didn’t have a normal nasal. That one you did on television, that was a high-turbinate nasopharyngeal.’ Which is a hell of a lot easier, it’s the one we use with children. He rocked back in his chair and laughed. ‘How did you know that?’ he asked. I know things,” Reti said with a smile.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12361486
        
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        September 26, 2020 1:49pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Would you believe her?
      
      2 1
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      September 26, 2020 5:47pm
  - Northshoredoc
    
    In NZ you can’t sure the manufacturer of any registered vaccine.
    
    6 1
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    September 26, 2020 11:12am
- godruelf
  
  Probably not that keen but when Government (NZ and/or offshore) say if you want to travel you need a jab then count me in.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:19am
  - JackRabbit
    
    No different to International Travel now. If you want to fly, you have to abide by the rules. Its a risk vs reward analysis.
    
    7 4
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    September 26, 2020 9:00am
- hullkiwi
  
  As reported last night on TV1: at the moment 1 in 5 are saying they will refuse a COVID vaccine. 10% were definitely against an 11% were probably will not.
  
  15 1
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  September 26, 2020 8:20am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You might be interested in this recent report about New Zealanders’ attitudes to ideas about Covid-19:
    https://www.researchnz.com/assets/resources/CovidConcerns16.pdf
    
    4 22
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    September 26, 2020 8:35am
    - fernglas
      
      I’m more interested in who decides what is a fact and what is a conspiracy theory.
      
      21 3
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      September 26, 2020 9:27am
      - JackRabbit
        
        M’n’M is the expert on that.
        
        He has a spreadsheet listing what is a fact and what is a conspiracy theory, from a USB drive left outside his door in a brown paper packet also containing $10k in unmarked bills.
        
        10 3
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        September 26, 2020 10:41am
- MCos
  
  If Donald Trump recommended a particular vaccine was 100% effective & safe about two weeks out from the US election I’d be a bit skeptical.
  However I’m sure down the track sometime one will come along that can be trusted, in which case I’ll be queuing up down at the clinic.
  Every year I get a flu jab & over the years I’ve had all sorts of other shots with no ill effects. I’m not expecting this one to be any different once the politics is taken out of it.
  
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  September 26, 2020 11:28am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Well the easiest way to be sure something is not true is if Donald Trump is saying it.
    
    2 11
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    September 26, 2020 3:46pm
  - fernglas
    
    How far down the track are you prepared to go? If there is no effective vaccine even for two years, and we carry on with an elimination strategy, we are truly fucked.
    
    7 0
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    September 26, 2020 4:19pm
- Brian Marshall
  
  I gave an uptick, but a qualifier with it. I would only take it if it properly tested. I don’t think it would be, but if it was, I’d be okay to get immunised. My thoughts are it will be rushed and will have only limited effectiveness or worse.
  
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  September 26, 2020 2:24pm
Im Right

I’m starting to get the feeling politics has seeped into the SFO….they assured us a decision would be made before election (when election was not extended to Oct) this gives me a couple of queries:
1: If Winston is so sure of NZ1 innocence in all of this why isn’t he demanding an outcome before the election
2: why has all MSM gone quiet in this investigation (SFO included)…I can assure you all if it were National or Act under investigation it would be front page news till outcome was given by SFO.

Strange that, unusually, SFO made a statement about an enquiry and gave a timeline of outcome… and now silence….
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September 26, 2020 8:14am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Collins and seymour will get onto it oct 18th.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:19am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Given the fact that when the SFO said there will be a decision, the election date was 1 week ago, and to date we have heard nothing, I wonder what the hell is going on!
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:43am
  - GJM
    
    A bit like the mosque shooting inquiry. Delayed yet again to after the election. Gun laws are outside the brief thay are allowed to look into, but i expect whatever evidence that is not suppressed will show the Police stuffed up and didnt follow the law before and Cindy’s gun cinfiscatikn was a political move and a waste of $149m that increased the number of illegal guns in circulation.
    
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    September 26, 2020 3:24pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      And the sheeple will sheep.
      
      2 2
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      September 26, 2020 5:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston got into Parliament via lawfare.
  Has he had the SFO findings to comment on and made even indirect threats concerning their possible disclosure? He’s a bit of a legal scattergun and innocent individuals can get caught in the fire.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:46am
- igm
  
  What about Mallard’s defamation charges?
  Seems CoL can commit crimes with impunity, including family of MPs, when it comes to sexual perversion.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:25am
- Jimmy White
  
  Email them and ask them for a copy of the report that they said they would release before the 19th of September.
  enquiries@sfo.govt.nz
  
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  September 26, 2020 11:40am
Yvette

Ihumātao, raised yesterday again by Winston Peters, could be solved under Heritage New Zealand.

Similar to the historic Bill Sutton House in the red zone of Christchurch, which has been reportedly extensively renovated by Land Information New Zealand on behalf of the Crown.
Its acquisition is not apparently under Heritage New Zealand, but like Kate Sheppard’s home, could have been.
Bill Sutton was one of New Zealand’s most influential artists and created most of his works at the Templar St house.
It surely just depends whether the sites of Maori early farming, Ihumātua, rates against great white New Zealand writers, political suffrage leaders, or painters.
The elevation of Bill Sutton’s house to a certain level of historic value should not impact the Treaty of Waitangi as should not the establishment of Ihumātua land in its place in early Maori agriculture and trading.

Cost is partly established by what Fletchers paid: $19 million
They have invested design, negotiations and other costs, which need to be recognised if to be compensated for, but the Auckland Council evaluation of the land is irrelevant until the exact purpose of the land is ascertained – a public park is totally different to land designated for housing, so is at present outside Auckland Council’s preview.

“Then, on 26 July, 2019, while [Peters was] travelling abroad as Foreign Minister, the Prime Minister halted the Fletchers housing development at Ihumātao,” Peters added.
“No consultation was ever done with our party, as by Labour’s agreement with us should’ve happened. That intervention was a terrible decision.”

Peters revealed Labour asked NZ First to use its ‘agree to disagree’ clause in their coalition agreement over Ihumātao, but the request was refused.
“We said no to Labour. Not once. Not twice. But three times. We went to the wall over Ihumātao. Labour asked us to ‘agree to disagree’. We said no. It was just too important for the country’s future. For us it was a matter of deep principle.” [1]

Ardern is obviously wrong in her intervention. She is additionally in error since she is Minister in charge of Heritage New Zealand, which holds a solution.
Can she admit these faults as she has recently to her credit admitted certain selfies were inappropriate in terms of her own administrations, as much as that slight comparison may diminish the status of Ihumātua?

Have both Winston Peters and Ardern overplayed their positions on Ihumātua, when it is a simple matter for Heritage New Zealand.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-winston-peters-thinks-jacinda-ardern-made-a-terrible-decision-by-intervening-in-ihum-tao.html
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September 26, 2020 8:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ihumatao is simply theft. Fletchers have the title.
  Has Princess Cindy turned into a stalking gila monster?
  What’s yours is theirs.
  
  62 2
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  September 26, 2020 8:36am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Has Princess Cindy turned into a stalking gila monster?”
    
    Always was in my mind. I saw through her from day one. Nothing more than a lazy liar which she has shown repeatedly.
    
    This link reminds you of her dissembling…
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/07/pm_tries_to_tell_media_what_they_can_and_cant_ask.html
    
    32 3
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    September 26, 2020 9:14am
- Paulus
  
  Jacinda can never be wrong !
  
  19 1
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  September 26, 2020 8:42am
- Tall Man
  
  Yvette, all the historical sites and features were already protected and not zoned for development.
  
  All the occupation is about is the overturning of treaty settlements as a way of extracting more money from the now rightful owners.
  
  30 3
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  September 26, 2020 9:10am
  - Toko
    
    The bigger issue is setting a precedent for overturning Treaty claims and private property rights. Care to have your property seized because a group of professional protesters decide something important happened there 170 years ago?
    
    19 1
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    September 26, 2020 9:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s also about activists that the Police are too chicken to confront.
    The Rule of Law has been abandoned to the Rule of Ardern.
    
    14 3
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    September 26, 2020 12:24pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Agree. These people are learning from the troubles in America. They are deliberately playing off one race against another and/or one group against another. Divide and conquer. Inevitably, the taxpayer will have to pay one way or another and they know this and don’t care IMHO.
      
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      September 26, 2020 12:53pm
- peterwn
  
  There is group preparing to pull off another “Ihumātua” if a payment is made for Ihumātua. This effectively opens the gates for k***mail on a wider scale. Winston understands the implications of this so has resisted Jacinda’s desire to settle.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:29am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The whole lot should be arrested. Those planning strife are also part of the conspirators.
    Judith didn’t tolerate boy racers. Why should Ardern allow the some people to riot as they please and for her to stop the Police intervening.
    
    9 3
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    September 26, 2020 12:28pm
  - Paulus
    
    When Cindy gets re elected she will do Ihumatao as Winston will not be at the party which is what she is working on.
    After all she Little, Robertson et al will be able to do all that they wants for the next three years.
    
    7 1
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    September 26, 2020 1:32pm
    - peterwn
      
      Well, She and Robbo had better budget a few billion for all the follow-on claims. Every piece of raw land about to be developed is potentially at risk.
      
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      September 26, 2020 5:05pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Ihumatao has nothing to do with Heritage New Zealand – nothing at all. The case has been through every possible legal avenue and the law is unanimous – the property was lawfully purchased by Fletchers and is being illegally occupied.
  
  Peters is correct but what a shame (and how convenient) it has taken him until a few weeks before the election before he piped up about it. Wily old charlatans still be charlatans.
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:59am
Maggy Wassilieff

So no racism by the Leadership at Waikato Uni against folk in the Māori and Indigenous Studies faculty.. .just a couple of senior staff who couldn’t follow best practice with regard to public $$$$.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300116670/waikato-uni-racism-claims-incorrect-sparked-by-spending-probe–report
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September 26, 2020 8:19am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  way to backfire.
  what is it with when our brown brothers get near others money they have a tendancy to help themselves?
  Didnt know stopping fraud and theft is now deemed systemically racist, just another stat theyre over represented in.
  
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  September 26, 2020 8:25am
- JimBobJoe
  
  That article contains very concerning statements… e.g.
  ‘But the report found that while the institution is structurally discriminatory against Māori due to its western university tradition’
  
  Ummm….. University’s are a Western cultural taonga… so Maori back off. It’s not a cultural institution that Maori have any rights over in my opinion whatsoever…
  
  And I note the Uni thinks it needs to change. What idiots….guess the Export Education sector is comfortable giving up one of its key selling points namely British based/style University Education.
  
  This country is moving rapidly towards destroying a lot of key strengths all driven by Left wing ideology and the attendant stupidity
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:06am
  - hullkiwi
    
    JBJ, because of that one clause and the fact that the substantive accusation was dismissed they are now wanting a wider enquiry into all 8 universities over colonial racism.
    
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    September 26, 2020 2:41pm
  - GJM
    
    Waikato Uni is owned by Tainui. Literally, the land under the uni and most of Hamilton was given to them.
    Our lawyer, a senior partner and founder of a mid size law company said they won’t hire Waikato grads unless they are a very rare exception. To useless, not taught useful stuff
    
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    September 26, 2020 3:50pm
lazza

Apologies if this duplicates earlier similar tributes … this one is “mine”.

My original-first kiwi rock hero Max Merrit “slipped away”. yesterday.

His song of the same name (eponymous for all you wordsmith’s) … which some call the best ever Kiwi rock anthem. Now that’s as “maybe” … [a peculiar turn of phrase Ed]… but …

It is sweet; melodic; haunting and teary … for moi.
Beautiful Beautiful.

Hope you like it.

Cheers … Fanboy Larry … of the Top Twenty nightclub- metro Auckland circa 1966.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d08Cnyzi_iw
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September 26, 2020 8:20am
- Tall Man
  
  One of the greatest NZ musicians and song.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

Policeman killed in London – Matt Ratana- was an old boy of PNBHS.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-54302266
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September 26, 2020 8:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Terribly sad news. Sincere condolences to Matt’s UK and New Zealand whanau, friends and colleagues.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:17am
- JimBobJoe
  
  That’s really sad news. Condolences to his family.
  
  But how does a person under arrest in cuffs shoot someone? Why was weapon still on his person or available to be taken from an officer? Something doesn’t parse properly with that story…
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:50am
  - Swifty
    
    Easily, I would have thought.
    
    Wasn’t searched properly or at all prior to booking. Happens all the time.
    
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    September 26, 2020 10:31am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Two very good questions. It is the job of the arresting offices to search the suspect on arrest, before taking him/her down to the nick. It was at the station, while he had his hands cuffed behind his back, that he extracted the revolver and shot the custody sergeant and then himself.
    
    Poor attention to detail by the arresting officer(s), and now a copper’s dead.
    
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    September 26, 2020 11:02am
    - Swifty
      
      Yep, just off the phone with my ex-cop younger bro.
      
      He says a cop or two will be feeling particularly bad today having not completed a proper search.
      
      12 0
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      September 26, 2020 11:24am
    - marcw
      
      One opinion in the Telegraph is that street arrests only allow ‘pat down’ weapon searches, and full searches are only permitted in station custody suites. This appears to be the case this time. The alleged offender retrieved a concealed weapon just prior to a fuller search, and fired the fatal shot by reaching through his legs with it, all whilst still handcuffed.
      
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      September 26, 2020 11:54am
- Swifty
  
  What a tragic bloody waste.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2257288/Video-Police-officer-Matt-Ratana-head-coach-local-rugby-club.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490
  
  How terribly sad.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:51am
wimpston peeeders

is this what they mean by orange man bad?
https://vote.nz
seems a nice chap but I guess its not good to encourage morons and sheeple to vote for drugs death and useless politicians.
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September 26, 2020 8:48am
- Nuwanda
  
  Hmm, if only sex, drugs and rock and roll were on the ballot.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:57am
All_on_Red

Raise your glass ?to FBI Special Agent William Barnett, Whistle Blower for Special Investigating Prosecutor John Durham.
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September 26, 2020 8:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He needs to watch his back, strange things happen
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:27am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    his suicide is likely to be already listed on a wikipedia page…
    
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    September 26, 2020 9:46am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Another mystery suicide. 2 to the back of the head…. inexplicable. Just another arkancide…
      
      6 3
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      September 26, 2020 12:29pm
piglady

Leighton Smiths podcast 78 with Australian Professor Thomas Barody about his COVID cure triple therapy was very interesting.
Hubbies Dr happy to prescribe so we now have doses available to us if needed.
As an aside but well worth mentioning, Professor Barody has cured husbands longtime and debilitating terrible gut issues whereby now he can live a normal life.
Sorry I have not posted the link, I need to learn how but seriously the podcast is worth a listen.
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September 26, 2020 8:55am
- oldfella
  
  Here’s the Leighton Smith I/V with Prof Borody…
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/the-leighton-smith-podcast/leighton-smith-podcast-episode-78-august-26th-2020/
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:06am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Best ad: Texas Reloaded. Dan Crenshaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EQkW0rhKmc
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September 26, 2020 9:03am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Perhaps Crenshaw would have a better chance of winning the blue-turning state of Texas if it weren’t for the mass immigration of left-leaning third world voters that he and most of the other GOP shills say or do nothing about. Like most of these guys, he was once an avowed Never Trumper.
  
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  September 26, 2020 12:01pm
redeye

The Serious Fraud Office, investigators from the Financial Markets Authority, the Commerce Commission and Inland Revenue can all compel people to talk.
But child killers get the protection of the Bill of Rights Act. Go figure.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300115275/right-to-silence-should-people-be-forced-to-speak-to-police-when-a-child-is-killed
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September 26, 2020 9:16am
PaulDunmore

Today is Stanislav Petrov Day. Early morning Moscow time on 26 September 1983, Colonel Petrov disobeyed orders and failed to report to his seniors an apparent US missile attack on the Soviet Union.
My family and I, living in Canada at the time, would have been visiting my mother-in-law’s that evening. Had Colonel Petrov done his job, we might not have got home again.
So raise a glass today (vodka, presumably) in memory of Stanislav Petrov.
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September 26, 2020 9:19am
Maggy Wassilieff

What is wrong with RNZ journalists?

They run an item to “fact check” the economics of pumped Hydro and try and make out that Collins and the Nats are wrong by getting the opinion of folks with vested interests.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/426958/will-pumped-hydro-result-in-significant-energy-price-hikes-for-nz

They seem to be unaware that a couple of months ago, RNZ interviewed other folks who reckoned the Lake Onslow-Pumped Hydro scheme was a dog.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422165/industry-figures-say-lake-onslow-hydro-project-not-worth-it
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September 26, 2020 9:26am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  pump using cheap power then release when prices/demand is high.
  
  Cindy claims itll make power cheaper but thats not how pumped hydro works, its pretty much a hydro power peaking generator eg. would run at times the expensive gas generators would get turned on except the power generation would be at the wrong end of the country.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:45am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Its also likely obsolete.
    
    11 1
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    September 26, 2020 12:30pm
  - JJ56
    
    The BAU option is to stick with NG and pay to cover the cost of the emissions. BAU is definitely cheaper.
    
    6 1
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    September 26, 2020 1:41pm
- Spam
  
  Yes. I took a quick look at that – the Stuff “fact check” article stuffed-up on GW vs GWH, but apparently this is 5,000 GWh, expanding up to 7,000 GWh in a dry year.
  
  https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/low-emissions-economy/nz-battery/
  
  I have a question and a couple of observations:
  Q.) Given that New Zealand’s other lakes, combined, when they all “Full” can store less than 5,000 GWh, are they confident of the 5,000 – 7,000 number?
  https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/security-supply/hydro-information
  
  And the observations:
  5000 GWh sounds like a lot, and looks like a lot, compared to the other storage. But it is only 18 PJ. Annual consumption is around 40,000 GWh or 3,300 GWh/month. Hydro generation is typically 25,000 GWh/annum, so can this really cover a “dry year”.
  
  What is the expected efficiency? At (say) 80% efficient, you would need to expend 6,250 GWh in order to store this electricity. Will this happen in a dry year?
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:57am
  - marcw
    
    As at 22/9/20 NZ hydro lakes were at 47% of total full. The historical average for this time is 60% total full. This is the beginning of summer.
    
    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/security-supply/hydro-information#Current%20Hydro%20Situation
    
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    September 26, 2020 11:23am
- JackRabbit
  
  Pumped hydro requires 15% to 30% more energy to pump the water uphill, than it releases when going downhill. Add in evaporation loss and other energy overheads means you may get 50-65% efficiency.
  
  Apart from the pumping inefficiency mentioned above, evaporation remains a big problem. You pump during periods of least electricity demand, which is in summer when evaporation is highest.
  
  Pumped hydro is outdated sixty year technology and hopelessly inefficient. You would get more efficiency using battery storage. Or better still build some mini-nuclear power plants.
  
  Promoting pumped hydro is an attempt to send us back to the stone age by numpties who don’t understand technology. And who don’t understand viruses, principles of research, climates, geography (are we in China or Japan), and finances based on basic mathematics as taught in Primer 1 using Cuisenaire rods.
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:22am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    But it is okay because we don’t expect much from Labour?
    
    1 0
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    September 26, 2020 6:14pm
- CJames
  
  Even if they build Onslow (and it will cost a lot more than $4B) how will they get the power to the North Island? All the lines are currently at rating. They will need to build a 1200MW line from Roxburgh to Whakamaru.
  There is little or no “surplus” power to fill the lake. They will need to build a lot more power stations to get the energy. About 10 Waitara sized windfarms, I estimate. And if the power has to be sold cheaply to enable the pumps to run, who will build lossmaking plant?
  The scheme only looks attractive to those that don’t understand physics. Or have someone else’s chequebook and want to be seen as doing something.
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:26am
- peterwn
  
  It is possible that additional storage is needed somewhere down the track if increase in generation capacity is by wind or solar power. At present existing hydro stations effectively provide this storage capability and indeed Transpower has tweaked the network where needed to enable this storage to be used.
  Assuming the Lake Onslow facility is needed at some future point, the issue is whether to build it now (to create jobs) or later. The established power companies are well aware that money has ‘time value’ so argue quite correctly that the project if started prematurely would place a financial burden on electricity customers. The idea that money has time value is not well understood, although the schoolboys in Rudyard Kipling’s ‘Stalky and Co’ (The Impressionists) were fully aware of this.
  The proponents of Lake Onslow would take the attitude of why not start it now to give employment opportunities since it is going to be needed anyway presumably with the idea that the Government (rather than electricity users) would bear the cost of a premature start. So both sides do have their point in a way.
  Since the 1960’s the Government has generally tried to keep politics out of electricity planning and this has generally but not always successful. The latest (1990’s)reforms resulting in the state owned power stations being split into 4 gentailers was intended to place commercial risks concerning demand forecasting and other matters on to the shareholders of the companies but market failures has resulted in the Government exercising some regulatory control via the Electricity Authority and MBIE. Labour’s advocacy of the Lake Onslow project means the Government is getting directly involved again especially if the scheme is built as a ‘public work’ to be owned by the Government. The last such political intervention of this nature would have been Hugh Watt’s (Labour’s Works Minister) in the late 1950’s. One could argue that Rob Muldoon intervened with the Clyde Project, but in that case he was in general supporting a project already in an impartially assessed power plan.
  
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  September 26, 2020 11:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Alternative sources of energy are on the horizon to come on stream. Even small thorium salt reactors are possible. Airbus has lined up to use the peculiar energy being exhibited by some plasmas. A large thumb size tube is producing 4Kw electricity directly, continuously. It requires nothing more than 38w to run which it provides itself once started.
    
    In the background at present it looks like the exciting race for power and lighting of the Edison era. Academics and commercial interests world wide are actively seeking working partners, rights and approvals for the new technology. There is more than one visible contender. It even shows promise to take us off the grid at the domestic level. Those large lakes may yet be used for other purposes.
    Cars may be an early adopter with a lifetime energy supply built-in. No external recharge. This could be as close as next year.
    
    6 3
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    September 26, 2020 12:56pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    theyd be better off to revive the old beaumont dam plans, probably cost the same and wont waste power pumping water to fill a lake like onslow.
    
    but yet again at the wrong end of the country, they should be focusing and transmission from manapouri to benmore or even future proof and go all the way to NI, 4 bill would do it but question is how much of that would be spent slaying taniwhas.
    
    7 2
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    September 26, 2020 12:57pm
  - JJ56
    
    The irony is that we have excellent energy storage already, well connected with transmission infrastructure, that can be expanded at relatively low cost to cover dry years.
    
    The Ahuroa underground natural gas storage facility.
    
    7 1
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    September 26, 2020 1:52pm
  - JJ56
    
    ” .. why not start it now to give employment opportunities since it is going to be needed anyway ..”
    
    Because it is unlikely we will with so many other lower cost options (no one has really looked at new technologies, other fuels, or demand side responses).
    
    Incremental solutions manage that uncertainty at much lower risk and hence cost, it isn’t just the time value of money, it’s the risk adjustment.
    
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    September 26, 2020 2:03pm
    - peterwn
      
      Quite right. The power generation/ transmission industry favours incremental solutions for these reasons. A ‘big bang’ solution is appropriate under some particular circumstances. An example was Vector’s cable tunnel from Penrose to downtown. It is giving Vector a further return since Transpower is using it to reinforce supply to the growing areas north of Auckland.
      
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      September 26, 2020 5:14pm
- Spam
  
  The other point is that 30 Million for a feasibility study seems like a lot. Assume $150 or even $200 / hour for an engineer, that’s 150,000 hours of work. Or 75 person-years.
  
  Sure, they will probably need to do something like drill a few core samples to confirm the geology (they could always do seismic….), so let’s say that costs $10,000,000. It’s still 50 person-years of work.
  
  $30,000,000 still seems like a lot of money.
  
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  September 26, 2020 12:58pm
  - peterwn
    
    For feasibility study read ‘slush fund’. There will need to be lots of hui’s, koha’s here, there and everywhere and how to protect rare native snails, etc.
    
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    September 26, 2020 5:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Donald Trump’s greatest accomplishment?
Keeping Killary from becoming President
35 3
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September 26, 2020 9:30am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I keep hearing about RBG’s dying wish.
Ambassador Chris Stevens had a dying wish too
15 4
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September 26, 2020 9:39am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Oh great, here it comes. Repeat performance from Ben Ghazi and the Buttery Males…
  
  3 33
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  September 26, 2020 9:44am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    You really are special mike. Leaving an ambassador to die is the perfect reason for a snide remark isnt it?
    
    11 4
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    September 26, 2020 12:52pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What do you use for butter?
    
    5 3
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    September 26, 2020 12:58pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Democrats might be upset RBG has died
  But on a positive note she’ll keep voting Democrat in 27 States
  
  20 3
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  September 26, 2020 11:15am
- RF
  
  Yep. Chris’s dying wish,
  
  Get me the fuck out of here !!!
  
  Where’s my backup !!!
  
  7 3
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  September 26, 2020 12:25pm
- theoldbloke
  
  Being keen on correct reportage.
  
  RBG’s alleged dying wish.
  Apparently only said once to a Grand daughter????
  
  Makes you think doesnt it
  
  4 2
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  September 26, 2020 2:53pm
thirteenstars

I’d like to commend David Farrar for his recent stand on the proposed hate speech laws, mainly in the form of an email he sent out yesterday under the letterhead of the Free Speech Coalition, of which he is a member. Some of DPF’s letter is reproduced in his post yesterday about Labour coming for free speech:

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/09/labour_coming_for_free_speech_after_the_election.html

In his email he correctly makes this point about Labour’s nefarious plans:

‘This is not about discrimination, but about speech that may “ridicule” or “criticise”.’

And be in no doubt it’s intended to shield every authoritarian who wants a piece of your life and your liberty. It’s designed to shut down debate and send a chill through society. To make you think very carefully about the consequences before you speak your mind. It’s political correctness enforced by the police. It’s cancel culture made into law.

Put your money where your mouth is. Support the Free Speech Coalition. We can all afford a few dollars a month to fight for the rights that previous generations gave their lives to preserve and which we have sadly neglected.

https://www.freespeechcoalition.nz/

And contact your National MP, email the party, or do something else to make sure National are hammering this issue and putting it in front of Kiwis in clear, stark terms. Let them know we don’t want police turning up on doorsteps threatening Kiwis with prosecution because they’ve said something “inappropriate”.

ACT already know the score.
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September 26, 2020 9:40am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Judith Collins stated clearly on Thursday that National opposes what the PM has suggested.
  
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  September 26, 2020 9:58am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Where’s that statement?
    
    Did Collins say it was National policy to oppose any such laws and to promise to vote against them and to repeal them when elected?
    
    I’ve seen too many, including Collins, make public comments about intended legislation only to support such things in modified forms when push comes to shove.
    
    An unequivocal rejection is required.
    
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    September 26, 2020 10:02am
    - RJ
      
      National Party leader Judith Collins says she won’t commit to any specific hate speech laws.
      
      “I’m very clear that our human rights legislation already deals with what needs to be dealt with.”
      
      She would read the Ministry of Justice’s review of hate speech laws, but she says “I can tell you right now that the National Party I lead is not going to be adding further to a loss of or removal of freedom of speech in this country”.
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-christchurch/al-noor-mosque-imam-urges-reform-hate-speech-laws-protect-religious
      
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      September 26, 2020 11:58am
      - thirteenstars
        
        That’s nothing more than a good start.
        
        Firstly, Collins doesn’t make official National Party policy.
        
        Secondly, “…not going to be adding further to a loss of or removal of freedom of speech in this country”, well, that’s in the eye of the beholder. It would be perfectly consistent for Collins to argue that certain changes to laws around speech do not lead to a loss of freedom.
        
        It needs to be National policy, clearly stated, that current law is adequate, that the changes mooted are dangerous, and that a future National government would repeal them.
        
        And it needs to be stated with passion and righteous indignation. Nothing less will do.
        
        8 8
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        September 26, 2020 12:38pm
- Swifty
  
  I’ve got to say, without any wish to sound at all martyrish, that this is one issue that I’d be arrested with pride for and would skip gaily to the cells.
  
  (I guess something like how many NZers feel for their Tour or No Nukes arrests.)
  
  If Little and Ardern proceed to criminalise free speech on the basis that someone says they have taken offence at it then I have a growing feeling that you will quickly find me camped out at a major Auckland transport intersection or public space with a whopping great sign saying:
  
  “No god ever sent any angel to whisper in anyone’s ear – let alone recite a book to them. And anyone who thinks this actually happened is being very silly and needs to grow up.”
  
  Should I be hauled away and thrown in the clink I would do so with a song in my heart, a skip in my step and a sweet fragrance swirling through my nostrils.
  
  I would go with pride.
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:28am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Good for you.
    
    And relish your day in court. Simply quote Sections 13 and 14 of the NZ Bill of Rights Act and make the judge tell you they no longer apply.
    
    13. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, and belief, including the right to adopt and to hold opinions without interference.
    
    14. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.
    
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM224792.html
    
    15 2
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    September 26, 2020 12:51pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Dope?
    
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    September 26, 2020 6:25pm
Tasman Terror

Jacinda’s greatest accomplishment?
We need a working group to figure that one out?
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September 26, 2020 9:40am
- crikey
  
  ‘Greatest accomplishment’ implies there is more than one. Are there any?
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:53am
Critical Thinker

US President Trump Just Confirmed as a Truly Terrible Racist ?

Double Noble Peace Prize nominee Donald Trump has just announced that he will be designating the notorious white supremacist KKK as a domestic terrorist organisation.

He will also make lynching a national hate crime, while pledging increased access to capital in Black communities by a truly astounding $500 billion.

He will also help to create 500,000 new Black-owned businesses, along with 3 million new jobs for the Black community. In addition to numerous other initiatives.

The KKK isn’t the only Democrat run organisation that will be labeled as terrorists. He will also be designating the fascist-anarchist Antifa as a domestic terrorist organisation as well.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-plan-for-black-america

As I said. Worst racist ever. Still those with terminal TDS will undoubtedly carry on calling him a narcissistic psychopath, that’s literally worse than Hitler ?
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September 26, 2020 9:53am
- Nuwanda
  
  “The KKK isn’t the only Democrat run organisation that will be labeled as terrorists.”
  
  Nice.
  
  12 3
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  September 26, 2020 10:04am
- Critical Thinker
  
  In other news ?
  
  FBI agent says there Never was evidence of Russia collusion but Mueller team had ‘get Trump’ goal.
  https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/fbi-agent-never-was-evidence-russia-collusion-mueller
  
  Video shows Joe Biden calling military servicemembers “stupid bastards”:
  https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1309590041287708672
  
  Kim Jong Un has apologized to South Korea’s President over the killing of a South Korean official earlier this week. Kim said he feels “very sorry” for “disappointing” President Moon Jae-in and other South Koreans; both leaders have been exchanging letters
  
  Japan’s new PM Suga says he is prepared to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong Un without any preconditions
  
  Reports Sudan could normalise relations with Israel and be removed from the US list of terrorism sponsors next week
  
  Israel and Lebanon agree to hold maritime border negotiations.
  
  President Trump to select Amy Coney Barrett as replacement for Justice Ginsburg on Supreme Court.
  
  Trump denounces the communist BurnLootMurder/BLM
  https://twitter.com/KarluskaP/status/1309582541163081729
  
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  September 26, 2020 10:19am
Ruahine

Just in case anyone missed this in the MSM.
Nice work Olivia.
https://www.oliviapierson.org/blog
11 2
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September 26, 2020 9:57am
Littletramp

There is just no way Joe Biden fronts for the first debate after the groundwork being prepared by Trump supporters right now.
Trump has so much ammo against Biden on past foreign policy decisions, his poor racism record, developing proof of corrupt ties to China, Ukraine, Russia and Iran, links to the coup plot prior to and after the 2016 election (General Flynn etc), Biden’s support of current violent riots, socialist influence of the Democrat power base and the brand of “Harris/Biden”, unrestricted immigration policy, Biden’s obviously deteriorating health etc, etc, etc.
Funny how all of these conspiracy theories are now becoming documented conspiracy facts.
Do we think Trump will hold back, or give both barrels as he did during the 2016 “roast event” with Hillary Clinton.
My pick is someone close to Biden will conveniently catch Covid over the weekend, and Joe will try to have the debate staged remotely so he can surround himself with a defence force just off screen feeding him the replies.
Trump may not win the next election, but 100% chance he will not lose to Joe Biden.
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September 26, 2020 10:15am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Scared of trucks with flags? Seriously?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOURc9czmOs
9 2
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September 26, 2020 10:19am
Maggie Pie

One of the girls at tennis this morning was saying she would far rather contract Covid-19 from a billionaire Superyacht owner, than a member of Mt Roskill’s Evangelical Church..

LOL!!
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September 26, 2020 10:35am
Fletch

So it turns out Russia did interfere in the 2016 election – on behalf of the Democrats. Remember that fake dossier used to attack Trump and obtain FISA warrants? The same dossier paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC? We now know that “The primary sub-source for the Steele dossier was deemed a possible “national security threat” + the subject of 2009 FBI counter-intel probe.”

We now know that Christopher Steele’s sub-source for his discredited dossier was a suspected Russian spy who the FBI believed was a “threat to national security” and the target of an FBI counter-intelligence probe from 2009 to 2011, according to declassified information provided by Attorney General William Barr to Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-SC).

We also know the FBI learned the sub-source was the target of its counter-intelligence investigation in December 2016 and knowingly hid that information from the FISA courts while continuing its surveillance on Trump campaign aide Carter Page, who the FBI accused of being a Russian agent.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/09/24/we-now-know-the-sub-source-for-the-steele-dossier-was-a-russian-spy-n2576888
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1309266622104862721

It’s all starting to come out folks. But you can bet you won’t hear much about it in the media.
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September 26, 2020 11:08am
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION….

Should somebody with a name like ‘Meng Foon’ recuse themselves from any involvement in this matter?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12367880
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September 26, 2020 11:35am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Of course not.
  
  7 2
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  September 26, 2020 12:47pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  No to wully.
  
  3 1
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  September 26, 2020 1:07pm
- Tall Man
  
  I don’t think so but this is not something that needs his input.
  
  We are becoming a little precious in my opinion but unfortunately no ones asks me!!!!!!!
  
  7 2
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  September 26, 2020 1:10pm
- KH
  
  Did the complainer work out that “satire” and “skit” using ethnic names is anti racist here. Obviously is going to have trouble with “sarcasm”
  
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  September 27, 2020 9:55am
RJ

Another Saturday, been to three farmers markets today, each again with a labour stand at them, no sign of national anywhere. I wonder if Rangitata will swing back to labour this election, I don’t think it is a safe seat any more.
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September 26, 2020 11:51am
Nickc2

FFS Mr. Race Relations Commissioner, cut the kids some slack. Kids in their middle teen years should not be held to account for their jokes by some self-centered Govt. appointed mouthpiece. If anyone is offended, they should take it up with the Head Master of the school concerned, not hang it out in the public arena where radical leftists will make a mountain out of a molehill with it and bring the school into disrepute and held to public ridicule.
17 3
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September 26, 2020 11:53am
- hilaryt
  
  Quite so. And all at a time when mental health is under the microscope again, and they wonder why people suffer panic attacks. The mania for shaming is incredibly destructive.
  
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  September 26, 2020 4:07pm
- RJ
  
  I’m just grateful I got to grow up when humour was allowed. Thank god for Billy T James and being able to laugh at ourselves. I wonder if today’s crowed would of ever allowed Billy or our telethons. Too offensive to precious people.
  
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  September 26, 2020 5:25pm
greybeard

Why are so many professional sportspeople and their entourages being allowed into NZ but no dispensation is being given to working-visa fruit and vege pickers ?
Our exports are being endangered in favour of people playing games.
16 2
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September 26, 2020 12:00pm
- RJ
  
  New visa for 11,000 seasonal workers
  
  https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-general-news/new-visa-for-11-000-seasonal-workers
  
  7 0
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  September 26, 2020 12:53pm
  - greybeard
    
    OK, thanks.
    
    5 0
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    September 26, 2020 1:24pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  The yachties should be let in too, they will already have done quarantine.
  
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  September 26, 2020 6:32pm
Flossie

An article in Newshub this morning. Could John Key save National or words to that effect. It goes on to quote a poll from July. JC became leader of the Nats in July.
5 1
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September 26, 2020 12:10pm
- RJ
  
  It uses that poll because that is the last poll newshub have done. Was a good article. Personally I’d prefer former politicians and leaders stay out of current elections
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-could-sir-john-key-save-national-from-jacinda-ardern.html
  
  8 1
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  September 26, 2020 12:22pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    yet helens making noises every 2nd day especially with the 2 referendums.
    
    8 3
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    September 26, 2020 1:53pm
    - lifesgood
      
      The black witch returns. It seems we can’t get shot of her.
      
      7 3
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      September 26, 2020 5:54pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        She was only biding her time at the UN.
        
        1 1
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        September 26, 2020 6:35pm
Dave Mann

BREAKING NEWS
The worldwide death toll of this horrific plague is now 986,000 people.

This represents a terrifying 0.0001 % of our population and it is obvious that capitalism, fossil fuels and Trump are to blame for causing so much devastation.

We call on all ~~drones~~
citizens to immediately ban the evil ‘civilisation’ which is responsible for the spread of this devastating disease.

We must work harder and be kind. Stop all travel and any productive activity, stay away from all places where any other people might congregate and, above all, if you must leave your houses, cover your faces so that others can see how frightened you are and how seriously you are taking the fear.

Don’t worry or think too much. It will all be OK if you just obey the ‘scientists’. We are hard at work modelling to find ways of keeping you safe from our imaginations.

Trust us and everything will be alright. Honestly.
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September 26, 2020 12:52pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  This represents a terrifying 0.0001 % of our population
  
  Not by my calculations…
  if we round things up, we have…
  1 million dead out of a world population of 8 billion.
  
  1 million divide by 8 billion = 0.000125
  0.000125 expressed as a percentage is 0.0125%.
  
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  September 26, 2020 1:26pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    1/80th of 1 percent = 125/million.
    
    1 3
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    September 26, 2020 4:02pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    OMG Maggy you’re absolutely correct!
    
    On the plus side though, being in error by a factor of a hundred makes me eminently suitable as a computer modeller if I’m no longer required as a consultant for the MOH! ?
    
    9 1
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    September 26, 2020 4:03pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Currently Covid-19 is considerably lower than the Spanish Flu which killed somewhere between 2.7-5.4% of the World’s Population.
      
      https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-flu-largest-influenza-pandemic-in-history#:~:text=The%20global%20death%20count%20of%20the%20flu%20today&text=This%20means%20that%20in%20recent,one%20person%20out%20of%2018%2C750.
      
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      September 26, 2020 6:36pm
wimpston peeeders

aw god now youll really terrify the sheeple with a huge percentage like that!!!

10% And id be happy and satisfied with the ratio of carnage/loss of freedoms we incurred.
25% And id be super excited the world will be a better place and more sustainable.

but no we paniced over nothing, its all one giant bad joke and even worse is the continuation of the scam.
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September 26, 2020 2:02pm
103PapPap

Interesting article on Stuff today which shows you how to tell if web sites are tracking you – very comprehensive. Here’s the link:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/300117316/87-of-websites-are-tracking-you-a-new-tool-can-run-a-creepiness-check
Everyone should look at this. It’s scary!
5 0
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September 26, 2020 2:47pm
- RJ
  
  Stuff can talk the amount of trackers on their website.
  
  If you want a basic way to block use brave browser, or for your browser use unlock, privacy badger, umatrix
  
  2 0
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  September 26, 2020 5:17pm
- RJ
  
  Just out of interest I looked
  
  National party website, 6 ad trackers, 11 third party cookies
  
  Labour Party, 6 ad trackers, 9 third party cookies
  
  Act Party, 11 ad trackers, 8 third party cookies and a warning it may be monitoring keystrokes and mouse clicks. Bad
  
  Greens Party, 6 ad trackers, 2 third party cookies
  
  NZ First, nothing
  
  Kiwiblog, 7 ad trackers, 14 third party cookies
  
  BFD, 4 ad trackers, 13 third party cookies and “ This website loads trackers on your computer that are designed to evade third-party cookie blockers.”
  
  Stuff, 14 ad trackers, 29 third party cookies, and This website loads trackers on your computer that are designed to evade third-party cookie blockers.
  and This website could be monitoring your keystrokes and mouse clicks.
  
  NZ Parliament! 3 ad trackers
  
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  September 26, 2020 6:14pm
- Ruahine
  
  It is nothing new. All Internet users are being tracked all the time. keep away from Pornsites. Tracey Martin of NZ First is trying to help however.
  
  2 0
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  September 26, 2020 7:24pm
C J Southern

“Air New Zealand pilot lets female passenger travel in cockpit”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12368090

This pisses me off (the article that is). Having had the privilage of flying in the jump seat with Air NZ crews on a number of occasions over the years I can personally attest to their unwavering professionalism.

Having a friend/aquaintance in the jump seat in no way compromises the safety of the flight in any way, shape, or form.

Glad the investigation appears to have reached the exact same conclusion. It’s a total non-event.
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September 26, 2020 3:42pm
Catgurl13

Stop the world I want to get off. Too much fricken woke bullshit everywhere. NZ is going to the dogs. It’s turning 3rd world.
12 4
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September 26, 2020 4:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Get off is in the middle of the night. Set clocks, you will have 1 hour to recover
  
  6 2
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  September 26, 2020 4:58pm
- C J Southern
  
  I hear ya.
  
  Been thinking much the same for a while now.
  
  1 0
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  September 26, 2020 10:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Grief,
Even eating healthily can be a disease!!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2020/09/orthorexia-survivor-says-obsessions-with-eating-healthy-shouldn-t-be-celebrated.html
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September 26, 2020 4:50pm
70andstilllearning

FFS
Timeline: 26 Sep, 2020 4:37pm
Clickbait:
Coronavirus Covid 19: Auckland Fullers ferry staffer tests positive for Covid-19
First few para :
“A Fullers ferry staffer tested positive for Covid-19 earlier this week, but the company maintains the risk to customers is “extremely low”.

Fullers chief executive Mike Horne sent an email out to all staff on Wednesday announcing an employee had received a positive test result, but had not been in the workplace for more than two weeks.

This was due to pre planned annual leave, Horne wrote.”

A Fullers spokesperson told the Herald the staffer was “not in a customer facing role” and “has not had any workplace contact with any of our teams during that time”.

It is understood the infected staffer is a maintenance worker.
A Fullers spokesperson told the Herald the staffer was “not in a customer facing role” and “has not had any workplace contact with any of our teams during that time”.

It is understood the infected staffer is a maintenance worker.”

Is there anything the MSM WONT do to help the the Covid election?

My other view is:
God of nations at thy feet…

I’m not religious but figure out the rest
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