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June 7, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 07 June 2020

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General Debate

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Mike

Eighty years ago today: death of the RAF’s first ace of WWII.
Edgar ‘Cobber’ Kain was born in Wellington, and travelled to England in the late-1930s to join the RAF. He was credited with 14 aerial victories during the Battle of France.
Ordered back to England for rest, he was killed performing aerobatics as he left his squadron mates.
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June 7, 2020 8:00am
- Simon
  
  Also DDay anniversary 76 years – where Christian armies of the British Empire & US liberated half of Europe from socialism.
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:18am
  - Mike
    
    I thought the Germans were the Christians – weren’t they the ones with ‘Gott mit uns’ engraved on their belts?
    And as for socialism, isn’t that what the British electorate voted for as soon as the wwar ended?
    
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    June 7, 2020 8:53am
    - MCos
      
      The British Empire was more than just Christians. The India Army was the largest volunteer army at 2.5mil.
      They were fighting fascists, not socialists.
      
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      June 7, 2020 9:18am
      - washo
        
        Hitler’s party was the National Socialist Party.
        
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        June 7, 2020 9:37am
      - MCos
        
        I’m sure this sort of self styled nomenclature has been discussed many times before.
        North Korea calls itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea and East Germany the German Democratic Republic.
        
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        June 7, 2020 10:44am
      - Jack5
        
        On MCos’s point, we will exclude Indians who fought on the Japanese side in Burma, taking part in the battles at Imphal and Kohima.
        
        And we’ll exclude the Waffen SS Indian Legion, which fought against French partisans, and against Polish, British (and perhaps even NZ) troops in Italy.
        
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        June 7, 2020 11:24am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Damn few Indians took up the Japanese side, and given the terrible treatment that Indian POW’s received from the Japanese, that has to be remarked upon.
        
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        June 7, 2020 12:26pm
      - Jack5
        
        According to this source, 45,000 Indian prisoners of war joined the Indian National Army, which fought against Commonwealth troops in Burma.
        
        INA units fought on the Japanese side at the crucial Burma battles of Imphal and Kohima.
        
        Japanese were accused of torture of NCOs and officers who hindered recruiting of captured Indian troops, and the Indian National Army itself was said to have formed its own version of the Japanese Kempetai military police to co-erce captured Indian troops into joining the INA.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Army_in_Singapore
        
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        June 7, 2020 1:50pm
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        There is a difference between a truthful name and a double-speak name.
        A truthful name would be the “National Socialist Party.” It was just what it says it was. It was nationalist and it was socialist.
        
        On the other hand, the “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.” It is not democratic, it is not of the people, and it is not a republic.
        
        If you can’t see this difference, then I don’t know what you can do.
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:15pm
      - Aunty
        
        A lot of people end up on the wrong side of history, Jack,because they are toxic, delusional, mentally ill, ignorant, you name it. Just look at the communists and socialists.
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:43pm
    - Swifty
      
      “I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and People, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a brave soldier, to risk my life at any time for this oath.”
      
      Maybe it was another god they were swearing by…….
      
      I saw too that the only Nazi ever excommunicated by the Roman Catholic church during the entirety of the Second World War was Goebbels – and that was for the horrific crime of marrying a protestant – and that the first treaty ever signed by the Nazi government was with the Vatican and which remained in place for the duration, I understand.
      
      Shameful.
      
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      June 7, 2020 9:22am
      - Scott
        
        Generally most people would think that National Socialism was another religion. Indeed they tried to obliterate the Jews and install themselves as the master race.
        They had their own religious ceremonies, even a nazi baptism if I recall correctly.
        
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        June 7, 2020 12:56pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        All Nazis were automatically excommunicated by joining the Nazi party. Came into force in the 1930’s.
        
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        June 7, 2020 1:20pm
      - Swifty
        
        Hitler’s Pope:
        
        https://www.vanityfair.com/style/1999/10/pope-pius-xii-199910
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:08pm
      - Mike
        
        Lucia Maria. I don’t believe that. Please provide a citation.
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:19pm
      - Lucia Maria
        
        Archives Show Church Excommunicated Nazis
        
        NEW YORK, APRIL 16, 2010 (Zenit.org).- An interreligious group trying to discover the facts regarding Pope Pius XII and his efforts to help Jews during World War II has announced the discovery of documents showing how the Church excommunicated Catholics who joined the Nazis.
        
        The New-York based Pave the Way Foundation said that its representative Michael Hesemann found a large series of documents from 1930 to 1933.
        
        The documents indicate that any Catholic who joined the Nazi party, wore the uniform or flew the swastika flag would no longer be able to receive the sacraments.
        
        This policy set three years before Hitler was elected chancellor made clear that the teachings of the Church were incompatible with Nazi ideology.
        
        “The documents clearly show an ideological war between the Catholic Church and National Socialism already in the pre-war decade,” Hesemann explained. “The German bishops and the Roman Curia considered the Nazi doctrine not only as incompatible with the Christian faith, but also as hostile to the Church and dangerous to human morals, even more than Communism.”
        
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        June 7, 2020 5:43pm
    - Jack5
      
      German troops wore this on their helmets in World War 1 . In World War 2, Germany Army troops wore it on their belt buckles, but the Waffen SS had different motto.
      
      From the Bible (Isiah 7:14) it’s a slogan used by other countries (in their languages), too, and was apparently a battle cry of Christian troops in the late Roman Empire.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns
      Isaiah 7:14,
      
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      June 7, 2020 11:16am
  - Swifty
    
    Eh?
    
    Wasn’t it Christian versus Christian Simon?
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:01am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’m pretty sure my Daddy was an atheist when he signed up…damn sure he would have been by the time he was demobbed.
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:35am
    - hookerphil
      
      “There are no atheists in foxholes”
      
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      June 7, 2020 9:46am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        He was told to dig one on Ruweisat Ridge. It was solid rock.
        
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        June 7, 2020 10:39am
      - Mike
        
        Ruweisat Ridge. Another desert war cock-up. The NZ battalions captured their objectives there in the first Battle of Alamein, but were left unsupported by the British armoured brigade. Abut 1,500 NZ casualties in this battle, including many captured when they were left exposed on the ridges to the German counterattack.
        
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        June 7, 2020 10:50am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Oh yes there are.
        
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        June 7, 2020 12:20pm
MT_Tinman

Todd, forget about telling us how you’ll spend our money.

Tell us how you’ll allow us to spend it for ourselves.
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June 7, 2020 8:03am
Jacinda Ardhern

Real bravery.

Not like today’s heroes: limp-wristed homosexuals in female attire on parade.
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June 7, 2020 8:04am
- mark15
  
  When ‘taking a knee’ meant a better firing position.
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:35am
  - MrTips
    
    Isn’t takeaknee a suburb in Auckland?
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:02am
    - Tall Man
      
      Take a knee knee silly.
      
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      June 7, 2020 10:35am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Just down from Father 2 toes.
        
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        June 7, 2020 12:46pm
- RiP NZ
  
  ‘Hard times make strong people, strong people make easy times, easy times make weak people’
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:42am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    As my father put it:
    “Wooden ships made iron men, iron ships made wooden men”
    A little more metaphorical.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:54am
    - Jack5
      
      Your Dad may have read a poem by Rosemary and Stephen Vincent Benet that begins:
      
      There was a time before our time,
      It will not come again,
      When the best ships still were wooden ships
      But the men were iron men.
      
      https://www.military-quotes.com/forum/wooden-ships-iron-men-t71288.html
      
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      June 7, 2020 8:50pm
- igm
  
  Are you not referencing Bush’s progressive police force?
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:46am
  - stewmar
    
    Are you not referencing Bush’s progressive police force?
    
    Don’t you mean Police Service ? They want it called now
    
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    June 7, 2020 2:35pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Interesting term or phrase stewmar. I have a friend in Aust who is in the NSW Police and they have transitioned from a ‘Force’ into a ‘Service’ and he is unable to tell me the difference. Can you please elaborate? TKS
      
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      June 7, 2020 2:48pm
    - david
      
      I think they are going a step beyond service.
      
      The title du jour IIRC is just “Police”
      
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      June 7, 2020 5:46pm
Lee C

Moderator I hope you will delete my reply to Mike – it was silly, even by my shallow standards. Cheers
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June 7, 2020 8:08am
- Mike
  
  Didn’t see it, but I’m fairly confident I could have made an even shallower reply,
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:14am
  - Tall Man
    
    100% with you there mikey.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:35am
JibberJabber

LoL
From New Shub on the Twitter,

Minister for Corrections Kelvin Davis says that whilst the percentage of Māori prisoners has increased over the past 3 years, the total number has reduced.

At last, something for Kelvin to be …..er…..proud of?
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June 7, 2020 8:08am
- Nickc2
  
  He’s a school teacher, what would you expect?
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:43am
- 3-coil
  
  Ihu wept….only in Kelvin’s vacuous cranium
  
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  June 7, 2020 10:03am
cas

What’s the betting that our 1 remaining case will recover on Monday in time for jacinda’s presser.
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June 7, 2020 8:09am
- Okahu
  
  I imagine that will qualify as the necessary miracle to confirm sainthood. Got to admire the prescience of Kiwibloggers in conferring the title based on nothing but faith!
  
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  June 7, 2020 1:25pm
Aunty

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12337682

Should Matthew Hooten be employed by Muller? Is this a smart move by the new National Party leader?

I would say no on both counts. Hooten is a divisive figure with a chequered history in relation to the National Party. With friends like that, who needs enemies? What the Party needs now is a period of unity, stability, and discipline. It is difficult to see how Hooten’s presence will do much to achieve that.
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June 7, 2020 8:09am
- lifesgood
  
  Totally agree. I’m very suspicious of him, think he’s a Labour party plant and don’t trust him one iota.
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:44am
- peterwn
  
  It is going to be very interesting to see how this pans out. I am wondering whether the National Caucus got into a panic over the low poll result and so became desperate to try anything. Judith Collins did not pitch for the leadership this time – this is very telling.
  A successful businessman does not always transition into being a successful politician.
  Will have to wait and see.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’ve heard from South Island friends that Muller made a very favourable impression with businesses in Christchurch and Queenstown he visited at the end of this week. He was particularly well received in Queenstown, where he made a significant tourism announcement from the Coronet Peak skifields along with local MP Hamish Walker, now National’s associate tourism spokesman.
    
    Fronting up, meeting people and listening to their concerns in person seems to have gone down a treat, compared to the Minister, who engages by webinar.
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:32am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Simon Bridges also used to do very well when engaging with people direct. Didn’t help him and won’t help Muller. It’s through the media that they’ve got to connect, and Muller has an uphill struggle there having made such a poor start
      
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      June 7, 2020 9:41am
      - Tall Man
        
        All these experts that are out there including our host seem unable to devise a strategy that allows National and it’s leader to gain any traction at all with the media.
        
        Perhaps they need to do “labour” and donate $50 million to guarantee favourable coverage.
        
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        June 7, 2020 10:38am
    - Jack5
      
      Tony, do you make “significant tourism announcements” when you’re in Opposition?
      
      Muller hasn’t yet made much impression among my Tory acquaintances in Christchurch.
      
      However, the acute economic pain’s still to begin. Muller gets his chance to to revive National’s electorate appeal between now and the election. The odds are about even: Jacindarella at hero status and with the media in her handbag v. the coming economic dive with hardship and hurt for scores of thousands.
      
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      June 7, 2020 11:37am
- Nickc2
  
  Hooton? NO f_n WAY!
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:46am
- The Boss
  
  I don’t trust Hooten. He donated money to NZF
  
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  June 7, 2020 2:53pm
dave_c_

So ! Whats with the awarding of Kiwirail electrification project to two overseas companies ?
One South African owned company, and one Chinese owned company !
Before folks climb into me and indicate it is the ‘market at work’, in my view this is not a good look, particularly given the state of NZ at this time.
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June 7, 2020 8:13am
- Tony Stuart
  
  This is a really bad look for the Government Dave, and especially for the strongly pro-rail NZ First. Watch Peters and especially Jones try to jawbone Kiwirail into changing their mind, which of course the MP’s have no right to demand.
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:46am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    The drunken dwarf will not utter a word. He knows he will be a minister for only a few more months.
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:56am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Its worse, one bidder will be hopelessley corrupt and half the kit will be missing, the other will do a shoddy job, and half the kit will need to be rebuilt, and the asbestos removed.
    
    From the team that brought you Kiwibuild, light rail to the airport, and eliminated child poverdy.
    
    What could possibly go wrong?
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:44am
- igm
  
  Especially when Chinese laboratories have stuffed world economies.
  
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  June 7, 2020 8:49am
- Scott
  
  dave c – great post. What is the point of New Zealand enriching China, which by the way was very negligent in unleashing the Wuhan flu on the world. Can New Zealanders not electrify their own rail system?
  Would it not be a tremendous project for New Zealand workers? Like the Labour Party is supposed to be the party that represents the New Zealand workers. Now they have an opportunity to provide jobs for those workers and they award the contract to China!
  
  I am convinced that both parties are complicit in managing our decline and enriching the Chinese.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:09am
  - MCos
    
    Kiwirail isn’t owned by the Labour Party just as it’s never been owned by the Nats.
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:31am
    - Nookin
      
      Are you saying that these contracts can be let without any assurances or accommodation from the government?
      
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      June 7, 2020 9:42am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Correct. It is a company. The Board will make decisions about who to provide contracts to. Ministers absolutely cannot direct them. I can assure you from my personal experience that is the situation.
        
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        June 7, 2020 10:28am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        sorry accidentally reported Benedict. Boards are appointed by Ministers, you will be astonished at how “responsive” they are to Ministerial preferences – and how nothing is ever in writing!
        
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        June 7, 2020 10:45am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “you will be astonished at how “responsive” they are to Ministerial preferences ”
        
        Yes I am aware. But in my experience – including with public sector clients – that does not extend to the Government telling a Crown owned company which contracts to award, even not in writing.
        
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        June 7, 2020 3:53pm
    - GJM
      
      Perhaps, but the government (aka taxpayer) has stumped up a pile of money for Kiwirail. As the ones paying the tab, it gives a certain amount of influence and the ability to apply conditions.
      
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      June 7, 2020 5:45pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Why on earth mad Marama not asking hard questions??
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:57am
    - Tall Man
      
      Too busy living up to her “special” word and cosying up with an illegal immigrant … and bagging “racist” cops.
      
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      June 7, 2020 10:41am
      - sooty
        
        Sir Cullen,
        Because it’s too hard!
        
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        June 7, 2020 6:00pm
  - dave_c_
    
    Talk about ‘enriching the Chinese’.
    I saw a map of Australia recently, and there were ‘red blotches’ all over it. These represented the parcels of land that are owned by the Chinese government. Vast tracts of it – absolutely mind blowing.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:11am
  - Justitia
    
    Scott, the Chinese were not “negligent”. Once the man-made virus was out of the Wuhan Institute of Virology labs they realized the resulting epidemic would put them at a serious disadvantage relative to the US. So they decided to protect major cities like Beijing and Shanghai while cold-bloodedly facilitating the spread of the virus to Europe and North America. They denied the virus could be transmitted between humans until the pandemic was thoroughly seeded abroad. They also engaged through their proxies abroad in buying up PPE from other countries including New Zealand so as to deny other populations protection. Not so long ago China’s actions would be a legitimate casus belli.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:22am
- peterwn
  
  The validity of the story is ‘leaked’ (Helen Clark style?) information from an unsuccessful bidder. There could be much more to it than price. For example the unsuccessful bidder may have added unacceptable ‘conditions’ to its bid. If I was considering these tenders (this used to be a significant part of my work in the past – I was also ‘engineer to the contract’ for various contracts) I would currently view a tender involving Fletchers with a rather jaundiced eye. Fletcher’s Commercial Bay (downtown Auckland) and the Justice Precinct (Christchurch) contracts have wound up in court and do little to inspire confidence in Fletchers. In Commercial Bay a subbie walked off the job because Fletchers was allegedly unreasonably quibbling over payments and Fletchers went to court to get the subbie back to work and Fletchers had to put the payment into trust to get a favourable decision, otherwise Commercial Bay retail would not be opening this Thursday. In Justice Precinct a subbie wiped the floor with Fletchers, what was interesting here, the judgment indicated that management of the project was very poor and bumbling. If I was running a contract for a client the last thing I would want is the contract to be mired in litigation especially if my client could be on the receiving end of litigation (these two contracts could well end up in court with respect to the clients).
  I strongly suspect that the chosen tenderer put in a good all round bid, one which the client (Kiwirail I think) had the most confidence in.
  The last thing we want in NZ is contracts being awarded for political reasons.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:11am
  - Nookin
    
    Good points. My recollection of the ChCh case is that Fletchers hadn’t even seen it necessary to have a detailed contract with the subby who won millions on a quantum merit basis. Doesn’t reflect well on the acumen of either party.
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:39am
    - peterwn
      
      I think the problem was that Fletchers brought Electrix (for electrical, data cabling and security) on board on the basis of a guesstimate (scope of work was not firm at the time) then they could not agree on terms of a contract but Fletchers had no option to keep Electrix on board. Electrix’s attitude and behaviour was pretty well impeccable. They had things well documented. Electrix had to re-do some work through no fault of their own so Fletchers had to cough up for that. Fletchers tried the usual counter-claim trick but the counter claim fell flat on its face. Fletchers also tried the counter-claim against its Commercial Bay subbie with partial interim success but will probably come off second best at the end of the day.
      The judgments in both cases are on the Court’s web site for all to see.
      
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      June 7, 2020 12:11pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, there is a better chance of project completion with an off-shore contractor than an NZ contractor. Remember Mangere Bridge?
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:55am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Ah yes; Mangere Bridge, when Auckland and New Zealand was held to ransom by the unions.
      
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      June 7, 2020 2:15pm
  - peterwn
    
    I suspect the ‘leak’ may have something to do with lobbying to try and un-award the contract and re-award it to Fletchers, etc.
    
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    June 7, 2020 12:13pm
- Nookin
  
  I would be interested in knowing the extent of any labour requirements for the Chinese component.
  
  Will all labourers be NZers or will they be temporary workers? Has Lees Gallaway approved an immigration scheme either specifically or in principle?
  
  I wonder what rate of pay they will receive?
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:23am
  - Nickc2
    
    Who cares what their rates of pay are, its got nothing to do with us. FFS, keep our unions out of it! If unions are involved, money will be channeled back to the Labour Party.
    
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    June 7, 2020 9:58am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Electrifying railways requires surprisingly few “labourers” ie unskilled pick and shovel guys. It is a capital intensive business.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:31am
    - Jack5
      
      Where are we going to get electricity from as roads fill with electric cars, the little railway is electrified, and pressure is put on surviving coal users to change?
      
      We don’t have the geographical features (steep valleys that can be dammed) to support sizeable expansion of hydro-power generation; the Greens and the Global Warming panickers have killed our chances of harnessing inshore and coal-seam gas which is necessary to balance non-predictable electricity from wind; and we won’t look at nuclear power generation.
      
      Do the Greens really want to electrify the transport system or are they maniacs who want to reduce us all to cyclists, Maoist-era China style?
      
      New Zealanders have been conned over generations that we live in a paradise for hydro-electricity generation. It ain’t true. Many of our big dams have only a few days storage of water to use. It’s not water that’s the problem, but storage, which is needed because rainfall and and snow melt are irregular. Wind’s irregular, too, and needs (near-banned) gas-fired power to cater for demand peaks and supply dips.
      
      Add to the difficult topography – mountainous islands – the shape of the country: long and thin. This is an expensive and difficult country for power distribution.
      
      How dumb to turn up our nose at exploring inshore and offshore gas (and possibly oil) resources, as well as the substantial reserves of coal-seam gas (even if we aren’t allowed to use the coal).
      
      Geothermal power (the sources are hard to measure, and the superheated steam sources move) and solar panels are going to save us? That’s a Greenie’s pot dream.
      
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      June 7, 2020 12:02pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        At GW scale PV can now easily compete with other sources of wholesale electricity, in middle east cost of PV electricity is now down to about NZD$0.02/kWh, NZ wholesale is 0.08/kWh. But it does really need energy storage to get the best out of it. Onslow pumped storage scheme (800m above Clyde river near Roxborough) could do energy storage for all NZ winter months.
        
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        June 7, 2020 1:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re. Urban Neocolonialist’s PV ( i.e. solar) power:
        How much sunlight and how regular is it in the Middle East compared with NZ sun from north to south? And do your figures take into account storage costs?
        
        In addition to a soaring demand for electricity from an electrified transport system; in addition to rising demand because of phasing out remaining coal use; in addition to pressure on supply because of phasing out thermal generation; New Zealand has the fastest rising population of any of the Western developed countries. This alone must make demand for electricity surge.
        
        For those interested in the multi-billion-dollar Onslow pumped storage scheme that UrbanNeocoloniast mentions, but note the environmental issues, a dilemma for the Greenies:
        
        https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/massive-hydro-storage-plan-be-reassessed
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:10pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Qatar has about 20% higher annual insolation than sunniest parts of NZ. PV in NZ would be quite economically viable, provided we had large scale pumped storage (for which Onslow is probably best option).
        
        I like gas, no axe to grind with regards to climate change, but it’s clear that economics are about to see end of fossil fuels as PV/batteries undercut it. Biggest factor with fossil fuels is that exploration, development and decommissioning costs probably can’t be recovered economically in the short 1-2 decades left (used to get 30years to get your money back on a discovery), few new discoveries will be economically viable compared to existing developed fields and sources.
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:55pm
    - peterwn
      
      The ‘pick and shovel’ work would probably be done by local subcontractors and workers who are used to working in rail corridors under Kiwirail’s strict H&S conditions. The work would be done at weekends and over the Christmas period and buses laid on for users. If the contract includes building the three new stations and upgrading Pukekohe station, that would be subcontracted to locals.
      Personally I would like to see the electrification extended to Te Rapa to join the existing electrification, and the 1500 V DC electrification extended from Waikanae to Palmerston North. Procuring locomotives to run on both systems is no big deal (the original Channel Tunnel passenger trains had to run on three systems including ‘third rail’). However I am dreaming – the figures would not stack up.
      
      3 1
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      June 7, 2020 12:27pm
- Inandout
  
  dave, Kiwi companies aren’t happy.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:43am
  - peterwn
    
    If I was a client, I would have favoured Fletchers years ago even if their price was a few percent higher because I knew they could get the job done on time in a no nonsense way. Not nowadays. Not with their ‘pay when paid’ nonsense they foisted on their subbies, nor their Mickey Mouse performance with the Justice Precinct.
    
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    June 7, 2020 3:02pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Certainly not a good “look”, but it is sound economics and business practice. Which do we think is more important?
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:45am
  - Inandout
    
    AR, yes we have a weak economic manufacturing base compared with many other countries, especially the sheer size of the US juggernaut. Economics though pales beside the billions we are throwing at welfare for the jobless. If only we had a government with business savvy that thought outside the socialist square.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:09am
- MCos
  
  Why should the NZ taxpayer have any sympathy for Fletchers & Downers?
  They seem to have lost out on this work because they weren’t the best value for money. If Kiwirail wanted the work to go to NZ only contractors they wouldn’t have invited tenders from offshore & by the sounds of things the locals could charge what they like.
  Poor old Fletchers.
  BTW
  John Holland may be a subsidiary of a Chinese company, but it’s basically Australian/NZ.
  One imagines all the people involved will be local.
  
  https://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516
  
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  June 7, 2020 10:05am
- DeepBlue
  
  The procurement weighting was only 30% price. The overseas consortium must have promised significant NZInc benefits to win as price is reported as close.
  
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  June 7, 2020 10:15am
- Frank the tank
  
  Less than 6 months ago the construction industry in particular Fletchers was being challenged over their ability to properly cost projects and there was government support to have increased costs as long as we got sustainability back in the industry.
  
  So we return to a race to the bottom for this critical industry?
  
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  June 7, 2020 12:06pm
peterwn

“Auckland businessman who stole from investors fails in appeal against jail sentence” – Herald.
Calling him a ‘businessman’ is an insult to all business owners and managers who keep people employed and the economy running.
He raised money from people especially the elderly promising to trade it.
None of the money was traded, and Robertson instead used it to buy expensive cars, travel by private helicopter, go on luxury weekend getaways or overseas holidays in a private jet, and buy expensive jewellery.
Unfortunately for him, NZ does not have Club Fed type prisons. He is no doubt finding prison rather uncomfortable.
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June 7, 2020 8:14am
- Nookin
  
  In media speak, “businessman” = expensive cars, helicopter rides, luxury weekends and private jets by definition. It is all part of the media’s predilection to stereotyping and factionalising. He was a fraudster, pure and simple.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:53am
  - peterwn
    
    Ebenezer Scrooge would have been much more of a businessman than that crook.People growing businesses need to be thrifty and even when they have ‘made it’ many like Ebenezer have trouble kicking the ‘thrift’ habit.
    
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    June 7, 2020 1:29pm
G152

Another day ending in ‘Y’
And the fake news that has to advertise itself as everything its not on the media that carries it.
The first 3 to 5 minutes of every bulletin is
hate the white hate the right hate President Trump and how wonderful Cindy is.
Just another day ending in ‘Y’
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June 7, 2020 8:22am
- greybeard
  
  Not to mention the enormous puff-piece on Stuff for James Shaw & the Greens.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:31am
- oldfella
  
  G152: Talking of hate Trump… how many of you read yesterday about Trump linking (good) job numbers with George Floyd?
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300029106/donald-trump-believes-george-floyd-would-be-thrilled-over-job-figures
  Shame on the overpriced ‘$1 Stuffed’, and others, because it was a classic case of MSM TDS. As this article explains by providing some context.
  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/06/05/fake-news-media-falsely-claim-trump-invoked-george-floyd-when-discussing-jobs-report-n500781
  
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  June 7, 2020 10:26am
  - emmess
    
    Yeah, it was a dumb statement but not for the reasons the media say
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtPfoEvNJ74
    
    3 6
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    June 7, 2020 11:02am
  - oldfella
    
    Hmm, wonder why anyone would down-tick a story correcting an anti-Trump hit-piece with context and facts? It’s a great mystery.
    
    10 3
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    June 7, 2020 11:07am
- Akarak
  
  How wonderful Cindy is! According to New Zealand Initiative chair Roger Partridge we should be “capitalising on our Covid-free status and the global reputation of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern but the government still has a counterproductive ‘fortress New Zealand’ mentality.”
  Good god!! Is Partridge recommending that we promote Saint Cindy as our very own version of Fidel Castro? Worked well for Cuba didn’t it! And as for the ‘fortress New Zealand’ mentality being counterproductive….everything this COL has done has been counterproductive!
  
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  June 7, 2020 5:20pm
In Vino Veritas

Former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on June 3. ABC, CBS and NBC ignored it. The ABC, CBS and NBC evening newscasts devoted 2,202 minutes of coverage to the Trump-Russia collusion conspiracy theory from Jan. 21, 2017, to Feb. 10, 2019. When the Senate Intelligence Committee announced on Feb. 12, 2019, that there was no collusion? There was zero coverage on ABC, CBS and NBC (thanks Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire).
A scandal that dwarves Watergate receives no coverage on three of America’s biggest new sites.
Rachel Maddow of MSNBC, who lead the charge on the Russia Conspiracy, claimed that the investigation was only there to create an air of criminality around Vice President Biden and the whole Obama administration in time for the election in November, never once mentioning the fake dossier or Rosenstein in her spiel. She has never retracted her allegations about Trump, or his team, and of course had no compunctions about fabricating news creating an air of criminality around those people.
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June 7, 2020 8:30am
- Fletch
  
  Ted Cruz nailed Rosenstein (who looks like a deer in the headlights) –
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD0rgygc-w8
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:24am
- hookerphil
  
  A day later Senator Cruz gives this great address that very clearly outlines the corruption from within the WhiteHouse and the FBI in the days prior to the hand over to the new administration. Haven’t seen this yet as a lead on any “news” link or indeed a Kiwi Blog article.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeBcfNaXl4w&feature=youtu.be
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:26am
  - Fletch
    
    Brutal!
    
    18 2
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    June 7, 2020 10:13am
- Inandout
  
  IVV, Rachel’s TV show was once very popular, now it is down amongst the reality cooking shows. She is looked upon as a fraud.
  
  13 2
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  June 7, 2020 10:02am
  - MCos
    
    I’ve never watched either Maddow or cooking shows, but from what I understand the latter are very popular.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:52am
Simon

It has been proclaimed that the Wuhan virus is over. Here and overseas. Political declaration and the science falls in behind. The riots are more important than any social distancing / lockdowns or other Wuhan virus considerations.

That changed in about one week.

Here according to $1 media NZ is wacist.

Orders are in for $1 media. Team of 5 million talk is finished and its back to attempting to divide the country with fairy tales.
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June 7, 2020 8:30am
Maggy Wassilieff

Andrea Vance greenwashes the Greens
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121694108/portrait-of-green-leader-james-shaw-labour-wasted-its-political-capital
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June 7, 2020 8:33am
- SpencerArnold
  
  Cringeworthy hagiography, but to Vance’s credit, it does appear to be written from first-person interviews rather than intercepted voicemails.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:26am
  - Overworked
    
    When she learns to write in grown-up paragraphs, I’ll read it.
    
    6 2
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    June 7, 2020 1:47pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I found the article so dreary that I gave up reading a quarter of the way through.
  Did see the bit where Mr Shaw didn’t like the party conference maypole dancing though. I dunno, at least maypole dancing is fairly harmless, unlike the majority of the Greens other activities.
  How anybody can have any confidence in that lot is one of life’s great mysteries- similar to Linus’s devotion in the Peanuts cartoons to the powers of the “great pumpkin.”
  I preferred the wisdom of Snoopy myself.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:29am
- Prince
  
  No doubt where Vance’s sympathies lie.
  
  18 1
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  June 7, 2020 9:38am
  - Paulus
    
    See Greenpeace got a judgement in their favour from a so called NZ Judge for being oversmart in trying to thwart OMV ‘s oil exploration – $50,000 plus cost award.
    
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    June 7, 2020 11:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I only knew James Shaw nominally as leader. Andrea seems to have a reasonable personal interview with James and added some flesh. James presents as a person of integrity and one who is prepared to compromise to make political action work. He seems to understand “you can’t win ’em all.”
  I don’t have to agree with all his advocacy but he’s now more tolerable.
  
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  June 7, 2020 12:58pm
MrTips

So Hooton is now confirmed as working for the Muller leadership team. That’ll really appeal to those National MPs and party officials/volunteers sympathetic to Key and Joyce.

Of course Winston knows this.

The best weapon Labour have right now is the perceived uncertainty in National. Get it together team.
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June 7, 2020 8:47am
I remember when

Just some figures on police killings and although they are from Wikipedia they are probably at least indicative. (2018)
Australia .17 per million, New Zealand .21 pm
Caribbean;
Jamaica 42.27 pm T&Tobago 33.97 pm Bahamas 27.57 pm
Africa:
South Africa 7.69 pm CAR 6.44pm Lesotho 6.38 pm
Americas:
Mexico 3.00 pm USA 4.66 pm El Salvador 95.45 pm Venezuela 163.28 pm
So obviously some black lives matter more than others. There is also the fact we don’t know how many black deaths in US are by black officers.
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June 7, 2020 8:48am
- Fletch
  
  What is telling is that when people are marching for some kind of “change”, most of the top leaders in Minneapolis (where the shooting occurred) are already black and all are Democrats… So who is to blame then?
  
  To start, you have as the city Mayor, Jacob Frey, an avowed leftist who follows a string of Democratic liberal leaders. The last time a Republican was elected to run the city was 1957. The police chief of Minneapolis is Medaria Arradondo, a black police official. The federal representative for the city, in Washington, is the famed female POC Ilhan Omar, and the top cop for the state is another POC and former head of the DNC, Attorney General Keith Ellison. Are these the leaders perpetuating the culture of white supremacy?
  
  Just to add to the list, you have Minnesota headed by Democrat Tim Walz, the state is served by two Democrat senators, including Amy Klobuchar who spent years as an acting state attorney in a few offices, and even the sister city of Saint Paul has as its Mayor, Melvin Carter, another POC leader. These would be the people operating the ‘’racist and prejudicial system and culture’’. Looking over these names, note how few have incurred the wrath and blame over the past week, while President Trump has been pointed at as responsible.
  
  https://www.redstate.com/bradslager/2020/06/03/during-this-spate-of-racial-outrage-here-are-some-deeply-uncomfortable-facts-for-the-press-the-activists-and-even-ben-jerrys/
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:28am
  - MCos
    
    What shooting are you talking about?
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:58am
oldpark

Thought for the month and last month .Spot the “Role Model” for all the World to to see and hear about. . A convicted criminal found guilty of “holding” a loaded gun on a very pregnant future mum ,or a very rogue Cop and soon to be a convicted criminal “holding” his knee on the same convicted criminal . Just saying .
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June 7, 2020 8:58am
- Brian Marshall
  
  Oh come on. We all ‘know’ that putting the knee to the neck is not approved by any police department. Right?
  
  https://www.lawofficer.com/neck-hold-used-by-minneapolis-officer-was-approved-by-department-policy/
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:52am
  - Tall Man
    
    I challenge anyone to find a “safer” way to restrain an extremely aggressive person intent on not being restrained.
    
    A softer approach could have easily led to the death or injury of an officer.
    
    Not sure if he can get a fair trial now that the left have already convicted him but if he does it will be interesting to watch.
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:53am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      It you have got to the point where you can get a knee on their neck then you have them under control. He’s on the ground on his face with handcuffs on and 4 cops around him. Put some upward pressure on his arms (pull up on handcuffs). It’s super easy to control people with a twist of the hand behind their back (as anyone with martial arts or bouncing experience knows) – if they keep fighting then a wrist elbow or shoulder can be easily dislocated or broken – which is safer than being tasered.
      
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      June 7, 2020 1:14pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m well aware of that but …. factor in the drugs in his system and you have a pain threshold that is through the roof.
        
        Watch the cop in Queens Street try to deal with a man twice his size. Even the pepper spray wore off quite quickly.
        
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        June 7, 2020 1:43pm
    - Jack5
      
      One of Kiwiblog’s police, or ex-police, followers might be able to explain whether having to get arrested people into cars is part of the problem.
      
      Back in the day, didn’t the police have vans? The back doors would be opened and the arrested person bundled in upright – more or less shoved in if they didn’t step in voluntarily.
      
      It must be hard getting a resisting person into the back seat of a car, especially a large resisting person. It looks at though, at times, it would be like a tag wrestling bout.
      
      Have to agree with Tall Man, that’s there’s no possibility now of a fair trial for the Minneapolis cop. The mob and the media have already sentenced him to life without parole.
      
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      June 7, 2020 2:47pm
Yvette

Featured in UK’s The Guardian but written by Eleanor Ainge Roy in Dunedin –
Two of Jacinda Ardern’s senior coalition partners have accused Donald Trump of racism after more than a week of global protests following the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police officers.
James Shaw and Marama Davidson, co-leaders of the Green party, were asked their opinion of the US president following inflammatory comments on Twitter during protests over the death in police custody of George Floyd.
Asked by press gallery reporters if they thought Trump was racist, both co-leaders answered: “I do”.

Prime minister Ardern has also been asked for her opinion on Trump, but repeatedly declined to answer, saying it was not her place to make character assessments of foreign leaders. [1]

Probably neither James Shaw or Marama Davidson can do anything effective about United States President Donald Trump.
But perhaps they can about Coalition member Shane Jones.
Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon says “Shane Jones’ continued racist and ignorant statements against Indian communities must stop. As a leader in Government, his words are irresponsible and harmful to many Indian, migrant, and ethnic communities. These types of comments divide us as a country and embolden those that hold racist and xenophobic views.”

“This month [Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon’s press release was March 3, 2020] New Zealand will mark two important events, the one year anniversary of the Christchurch Mosque shootings and Race Relations Day, that remind us of the ugliness of racism and hate. Shane Jones’ comments are an affront to these important moments when New Zealanders should be coming together to support one another.” [2]

Meng Foon does however add “The anniversary of the 15 March mosque attacks marks the day when 51 people were murdered by someone who held erroneous and hateful views towards a religious and ethnically diverse group.” which – in the absence now of a court case, no context yet to sentencing, a Commission still to report back, and a ban on reading Tarrant’s own explanation (his manifesto) – maybe Foon’s comment is an over-simplified view of Tarrant’s atrocities.
However the other important event Meng Foon mentioned, was – Race Relations Day on 21 March, which commemorates the 1960 Sharpeville Massacre when 69 Black South African citizens – including ten children – were shot to death by their own police for protesting against racial apartheid laws.”

So to say “Shane Jones’ comments are an affront to these important moments” are strong words from
Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon.
I guess Northland voters now will be especially interested to see what else Shane Jones says.
Or James Shaw or Marama Davidson. They still work with Jones, don’t they?

And could Andrew Little’s supposed up-coming “hate speech laws” be delayed at this stage because fellow-Cabinet Minister Shane Jones utterances – by Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon’s condemnation – may be exactly what the laws should encompass could be embarrassing to say the least, or Little is waiting for the sentencing of Tarrant to hang them on.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/new-zealand-minister-says-yes-trump-is-racist-amid-george-floyd-protests
[2] https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2003/S00029/meng-foon-condemns-shane-jones-comments-against-indian-communities-as-racist-ignorant-and-harmful.htm
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June 7, 2020 9:00am
- Tall Man
  
  Hypocrisy is strong with those ones.
  
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  June 7, 2020 10:54am
Maggie Pie

When i came out of the shower last night, my partner had taken control of the TV remote.
He insisted we watch some silly R18 horror movie on the Duke Chanel, called ‘HOSTEL’.
Well honestly, it had to be one of the most scary, sexually depraved, demeaning films, that i’ve ever seen on telly. There were explicit and erotic scenes of sadomasachism, lesbianism, felatio, and group sex, all coupled with some of the most horroficly gruesome torture interludes you could ever witness.
I went to bed about half way thru. My partner stayed up to the end. He was just telling me this morning that when the credits rolled, needless to say most of the actors he’d never even heard of. The only two names he did recognize, was a ‘Special Thanks’ to Peter & Fran Jackson.

God only knows what roles they played 🙁
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June 7, 2020 9:03am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, I haven’t seen the film, but I’ve heard of it. I can’t watch films like that, or Saw, or 8MM – anything with torture or where people are being cruel. I can handle over-the-top Arnie violence, but not this torture porn stuff.
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There’s 2 more Hostels to go….
  (Hostel 2 was banned in NZ for some years)
  https://archive.is/20171023023958/http://www.newshub.co.nz/entertainment/hostel-part-ii-finally-being-released-in-new-zealand-2008032814
  
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  June 7, 2020 9:54am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Honestly Maggs, you’d have to wonder what sort of depraved individuals actually produce this silly cr*p . God only knows what it does to the minds of impressionable kids watching it at home.
    
    (My partner now believes Peter and Fran may not have actually had starring roles in the movie, but rather, just provided the ‘special-effects’ thru Wetter Workshops.)
    
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    June 7, 2020 10:11am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I assure you Maggie Pie my education is extended every time I read one of your posts… I seem to have led a very sheltered existence.
      
      (p.s. I’ve never seen Fran Walsh referred to as Fran Jackson)
      
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      June 7, 2020 10:50am
      - Mike
        
        Lady Jackson?
        
        7 2
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        June 7, 2020 11:03am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        I can only assume you never spent the best part of your childhood at a Catholic Boarding School then Maggs?
        
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        June 7, 2020 11:49am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Good Grief,
        My lot spent 400 years warding Papists off our Island….but they’ve returned!
        http://www.catholic-iona.com/history/
        
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        June 7, 2020 2:53pm
KevO'Brien

What are we fighting for?
https://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-systemic-collapse-of-the-us-society-has-begun/?utm_source=whatfinger
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June 7, 2020 9:06am
- Inandout
  
  KO, that is an anti Jewish site, Holocaust Hoax books.
  
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  June 7, 2020 11:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Do you look for every Jew in NYC?
    
    The article has a perceptive presentation in depth that has nothing to do with Jewry.
    It also does point out what concerns me the rise of a new class of elite like baron, earls etc. who are claiming global sovereignty rights.
    
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    June 7, 2020 1:09pm
-D

Do Not Miss Reading Cactus Kate’s Latest Post:

CEO Air New Zealand: WE JUST CAN’T AFFORD IT!

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2020/06/greg-foran-schools-cindy-and-robbo-we.html
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June 7, 2020 9:11am
- MCos
  
  The article mentions that ThaiAir is fucked. In fact it’s permanently fucked with a bail out each year from the government.
  As a variation it’s currently bankrupt.
  
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  June 7, 2020 11:12am
  - Tall Man
    
    Hope my points are safe 🙂
    
    6 2
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    June 7, 2020 12:10pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Airlines have historically been loss makers as airports (being natural monopolies) extra all the profit potential from the airline industry.
    
    But airports will lose their monopoly in next decade as cheap air taxis will be able to make more distant competing airports viable, and will also take away Air NZ monopoly on many domestic routes in NZ.
    
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    June 7, 2020 3:02pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Do not miss this. Cactus Kate as perceptive as ever.
  
  It’s a pity Robbo has no concept of what is to come.
  
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  June 7, 2020 1:17pm
Swifty

Notsofast – get your teeth into this one:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12337388
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June 7, 2020 9:27am
- Tall Man
  
  Not working for me.
  
  5 2
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  June 7, 2020 11:21am
  - Swifty
    
    That is weird.
    
    You can google the article on the Herald and ODT but when you click on them you get the ‘not found message’ – the articles must have been recently pulled.
    
    It was the story about the wife of the Southland firefighter supposedly killed by a stag on his own farm – but of which there are a number of unanswered questions.
    
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    June 7, 2020 1:20pm
JibberJabber

Useful Idiots,
https://twitter.com/WWG1WGAUSA/status/1269344260978958336
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June 7, 2020 10:00am
Yvette

Shane Jones exclusively revealed to Newshub in February there was a plan afoot to take down National in Northland.
On Saturday, he officially confirmed he was New Zealand First’s Northland candidate. He told a party meeting in Kerikeri that it was a “privilege to be selected by the party and pledged a bold and job-rich campaign reaching out to all Northlanders”, according to a statement.
“I will deliver an exciting policy vision for Northland – my home, with passion,” he said.
“I have a strong and determined team up here. We look forward to telling our story of continued Government investment into rail, water storage, roads, digital connectivity, tourism and health after nine years of neglect by the last National Government – and now three years of pork-barrel politics exploiting the three billion dollar regional ‘Elect New Zealand First slush fund’“, said Jones.

But there, I humbly assist Shane’s honestly by adding the portion in bold, because “after nine years of neglect by the last National Government” is really pushing krap up-hill even for someone credited with such oratory originality as is Shane “Self-Aggrandised Champion of the Regions” Jones.

Shane Jones has the backing of leader Winston Peters, who won the 2015 by-election in Northland [28 March 2015] before losing it to King in 2017 [23 September 2017]

So, during “the nine years of neglect by the last National Government”, Northland was blessed with care of Shane’s superior, Winston Peters, as MP for about 2 years, 6 months, 26 days of that time.
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June 7, 2020 10:07am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have done a bit of work on regional development, mainly in Australia. All of the programmes I have looked at internationally are failures. So after a few years I refused to work on such projects anywhere because ultimately they are expensive boondoggles. They amount to using the state to direct resources to where markets will not. Unless you keep up an endless subsidy, any established economic activity just falls over.
  
  Put simply, these efforts by Jones will absolutely make New Zealand a poorer nation. For a while it will enrich chosen people, but only at the expense of everyone else.
  
  The best advice you could give to a smart high achieving young person in Northland on finishing high school would be to leave. And that is what most young people in these places do. That means that the average intelligence of the remaining population falls relative to urban centres.
  
  Shane Jones is an absolute menace to the country. And where is National? Has National said bluntly that it will scrap the PGF?
  
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  June 7, 2020 10:43am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I think it is well understood that the PGF is Labour’s assist to Shane Jones so NZF can continue.
    
    9 2
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    June 7, 2020 1:20pm
- David George
  
  Shane is not well liked/deeply loathed around here so can’t see him winning.
  We’ll be working hard to support Matt King.
  
  28 1
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  June 7, 2020 10:46am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    He’s already been beaten twice in Northland by John “Hone” Carter. In addition, Jones lost to Pita Sharples in Tamaki-Makaurau, and last election finished a distant third behind Dr Shane Reti in Whangarei. Dr Reti’s majority over his Labour opponent and Jones was nearly 11,000 votes.
    
    Jones has a reputation of being lazy, and cutting corners. That partly explains his perfect record in losing every electorate contest he has ever been involved in, but I suggest he’s also not a team player. I saw first-hand the teamwork required in 2017, and the hard work and dedication a candidate requires.
    
    Jones cannot simply hope that everyone who voted for Winston Peters in 2017 will automatically vote for him. Every vote has to be earned, and sure, Jones has cash to splash around. But Matt King has worked his arse off since the 2017 election as the Northland MP, and will be a formidable opponent.
    
    I predict a second term for Matt King, and for Jones to retain his perfect record. With luck, it will be his fifth and final unsuccessful tilt at winning an electorate.
    
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    June 7, 2020 2:29pm
    - greybeard
      
      But the stupidity of NZ’s MMP system means that Jones will still get in on the List, provided they get enough votes. Even though Northland rejects him.
      
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      June 8, 2020 7:42am
chaos

* A former head of MI6 believes the coronavirus pandemic “started as an accident” when the virus escaped from a laboratory in China.

In an interview with the Daily Telegraph UK, Sir Richard Dearlove said he had seen an “important” new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally but was man-made by Chinese scientists.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12337755
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June 7, 2020 10:28am
- C J Southern
  
  One of the world’s leading epidemiologists – with relevant additional experience in this area – had this to say on the topic:
  
  “Joe Rogan: (18:01)
  All right, well so much for that myth. Myth number two. Well I won’t say myth, I should say rumor, was that this was something from some sort of a biological weapons thing that was leaked because Wuhan is some area, a part of China, that they actually do work on biological weapons.
  Michael Osterholm: (18:21)
  And we’ve heard that loud and clear. And let me just give a little bit background and more of my career. Back in the early 1990s I got very involved in the whole area of bio-defense and bio-terrorism, bio-warfare. It turned out I was involved with helping to interview and get information from some of the Russian bio-weaponeers. After the wall fell and Russia collapsed, we had all these experts coming out who’d been spending their whole lives making bio-weapons and it became very clear to me that this was really a serious challenge. And as part of my work, I spent a lot of time in this area and I actually, through a series of serendipitous events, became a personal advisor to his majesty, King Hussein of Jordan, before he died, on this topic. I got really into it.
  Michael Osterholm: (19:06)
  I wrote a book that was published on nine 11 of 2000 called Living Terrorist, What Our Country Needs to Survive the Coming Bio-terrorist Catastrophe. And I think I bought eight of the 12 copies that were sold in that year afterwards. And then when 9/11 happened, of course, then it became really prominent. And then I went on to serve on a group here in the United States that was basically the national science advisory board on bio-security, safety issues. So I’ve had a lot of experience in this area. And so I bring that to the table and I tell you there is no evidence whatsoever that this is a bio-weapon or that it was accidentally released from the Wuhan lab. Today, with the genetics we have on these viruses and how we can do testing, we can almost date them almost like carbon testing so radiocarbon and you want to know how old a block is or something like that.
  Michael Osterholm: (19:51)
  This thing clearly jumped from an animal species, probably the third week of November to humans. In Pangolins, these scaly anteater like animals are a very good source because we have Corona viruses just like those in these animals and it got into a human. So we surely had a lot of challenges with that, but I don’t believe that there’s any evidence linking this to one, an intentional release or an accidental release or that it’s an engineered bug. It’s not”
  
  https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-rogan-michael-osterholm-podcast-transcript-infectious-disease-expert-talks-coronavirus
  
  5 4
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  June 7, 2020 12:21pm
harvey wilson

Is this parody? I can’t tell anymore

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300028585/how-nz-can-lead-the-way-in-dismantling-systems-of-white-supremacy
19 1
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June 7, 2020 10:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s not parody…it’s the bow wave of Law Enforcement and Penal Reform in NZ.
  
  Wait for some political party to start repeating:
  1. Abolish Police
  2. Abolish our Prison System
  
  29 1
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  June 7, 2020 11:07am
  - Komata
    
    MaggyW@1107
    
    Re: ‘ Wait for some political party to start repeating:…’
    
    While their leaders sit in walled compounds with gates and (armed?) security on 24-hour watch.
    
    ‘Do as I say, not as I do’ comes immediately to mind…
    
    11 1
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    June 7, 2020 12:32pm
- emmess
  
  *The author holds a Master of Laws from Harvard University, specialising in Critical Race Theory and minority rights.
  
  Seriously, western countries could start by defunding but a few all non-STEM courses at all universities. That is the first thing that needs to be done to turn around this creeping Marxism through the institutions.
  
  24 3
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  June 7, 2020 11:16am
  - Mike
    
    We can only assure the survival of a free society by limiting what people can study.
    
    2 8
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    June 7, 2020 12:43pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Do you include fire raising, mayhem, street violence, imprisonment…?
      
      7 3
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      June 7, 2020 1:23pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      But we don’t need to pay fuckwits to propegate – these ‘studies’ are of no value to society, in fact they are a cancer of a sort that only do damage. We shouldn’t be subsidising anti-vaxers or fields dedicated to sabotaging (manufacturing and maximising conflict and racial division) civil society. If people want to study it let them pay the full ticket price for it, because the taxpayer is getting nothing of value from it.
      
      10 3
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      June 7, 2020 1:24pm
      - Mike
        
        You seem to be confident that governments can decide what sort of academic study is deserving.
        
        3 6
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        June 7, 2020 2:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        They can and do, Mike.
        
        Take engineering and medical colleges as an example.
        
        The plethora of soft “science” courses and degrees have spread from the United States.
        
        Heaps of graduates from these in America, and in Britain, earn less than they would from working as tradies.
        
        8 1
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        June 7, 2020 2:51pm
    - cmm
      
      No not limiting anybody from taking a basket weaving degree if they choose to pay for it.
      
      The reason we fund studying is because those degrees are of vast benefit to society: engineers, teachers, doctors,…
      
      Being funded to study for a PhD in Medieval French History in a NZ university is pretty broken.
      
      The test is this: can you get a free market job? You, know, one of those jobs where people actually pay for the services and thereby acknowledge that you are providing value.
      
      8 2
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      June 7, 2020 2:28pm
      - Mike
        
        That’s a very narrow view of education: that it’s only purpose is to prepare someone for a job.
        
        2 5
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        June 7, 2020 3:12pm
  - cmm
    
    “Critical Race Theory” has the word “Theory” in it.
    
    Sounds like legitimate science to me. That surely makes it a STEM course along with political science.
    
    7 1
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    June 7, 2020 2:22pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      ‘Critical’ in arts/social science parlance means ‘Marxist’, that tired old tool of human immiseration.
      
      5 1
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      June 7, 2020 3:09pm
    - emmess
      
      Critical theory, Marxist-inspired movement in social and political philosophy originally associated with the work of the Frankfurt School.
      https://www.britannica.com/topic/critical-theory
      
      4 1
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      June 7, 2020 3:28pm
oldfella

Anyone else surprised at how quickly lefty Aussie state premiers buckled to the mob and decided that marching for black lives was more important than protecting ALL lives by observing social distancing? I can’t keep up.
28 2
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June 7, 2020 11:17am
- Inandout
  
  oldfella, the virus fiasco is ended, the population is muted and softened, so what an ideal time to wheel out the BLM.
  
  17 1
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  June 7, 2020 12:03pm
Inandout

I was curious as to what is in the BLM manifesto:
https://www.puckermob.com/lifestyle/black-lives-matter-just-delivered-their-10-point-manifesto-and-this-is-what-they-want/
Wonder if the Limousine Liberals know exactly what they support?
14 1
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June 7, 2020 12:00pm
- MCos
  
  I didn’t look at that site any further than what I could see under a request for my email.
  Buggered if I want my inbox filled up with even more propaganda.
  However I noticed the first point was an end to the “broken windows” policy whereby it is assumed the police suspect the nearest person of dark complexion is the culprit.
  An example.
  A friend of mine is part owner of some gyms in Arlington. One of his partners, a black gentleman & lawyer, was run in by the police on suspicion of robbery because he bore a resemblance to a photo of the perpetrator.
  Except he didn’t, which was blindingly obvious to the judge when he appeared in court a few days later.
  Last I heard he was suing the city for several million dollars.
  
  5 1
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  June 7, 2020 4:40pm
chaos

* A much-anticipated coronavirus vaccine trial only has a 50 per cent chance of success, the professor leading the project has warned.

High hopes have been pinned on the vaccine from Oxford University, with a deal for 30million doses by September already in place.

But Professor Adrian Hill said the upcoming trial of 10,000 Britons may flop and produce ‘no result’ because the virus is vanishing in the UK.*

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8351369/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-50-chance-success-professor-leading-project-warns.html
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June 7, 2020 12:57pm
MH

Dear Jacinder,
Is it safe now? Can I stop going to church now?
9 2
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June 7, 2020 1:23pm
- MH
  
  ……..and why do all the sermons end with”this has been a party broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party” and why has Winson taken over the collection plate from Clayton Mitchell? Asking on behalf of a genuine genuflector.
  
  10 2
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  June 7, 2020 1:45pm
Maggie Pie

My partners brother in-law tweets….

“Well FMD! This would have to be the most MORONIC SIGN I’ve ever seen in my entire career with the Force.”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZ1ghE8U8AcT1z4?format=jpg&name=900×900
11 1
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June 7, 2020 1:54pm
- chaos
  
  But then all those teeth whiting businesses will go out of businesses.
  
  6 0
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  June 7, 2020 2:06pm
  - chaos
    
    Argh, whitening
    
    5 0
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    June 7, 2020 2:32pm
chaos

I have an idea, how about with the damage the lockdown has done to the economy we support local businesses Cindy, just like the adverts on tv say.

* Construction companies Fletcher and Downer are reportedly “fuming” after a $371 million Government rail contract has been awarded to overseas companies – costing the Kiwi firms hundreds of local jobs.

Three sources within the companies have told the Herald on Sunday they were unsuccessful in their joint bid for the Papakura to Pukekohe rail electrification contract in South Auckland.

It is understood the KiwiRail contract has been awarded to a joint bid from Chinese-owned firm John Holland and South African-owned McConnell Dowell.

The competing New Zealand and overseas tenders were reportedly “very, very close” but cost played a determining factor.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516
8 4
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June 7, 2020 2:00pm
- chaos
  
  It’s obvious the downdicker doesn’t support nz businesses
  
  4 4
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  June 7, 2020 3:18pm
  - MCos
    
    You could equally argue the uptickers don’t support the taxpayers.
    
    3 3
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    June 7, 2020 5:24pm
    - chaos
      
      Of course because it is far better for the tax payer that this money for this job sees a large chunk of money go offshore than stay in NZ, but hey unlike you the uptickers realise that it is far better to pay a nz company and keep that Money in the country right now when your chosen one has so fucked the economy. And considering the tenders were very close In price your stupidity shows more
      
      1 1
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      June 7, 2020 7:48pm
rangitoto

I see J.K Rowling has been turned on by the woke twitterati for suggesting there is some biological basis to gender. Have to laugh when the left carry out a purge of wrong thinkers in their own ranks.
11 1
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June 7, 2020 2:38pm
rangitoto

Twitter super troll Donald Trunp writes:

“@CNN
& MSDNC are doing everything possible to “inflame” the crowd. Fortunately they have a very small audience!”
7 4
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June 7, 2020 2:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Big audience on play school TV1 presenters, reporters, and news
  
  7 3
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  June 7, 2020 3:08pm
Inandout

Snopes had as most unlikely that Justin was Castro’s love child because his mother ‘couldn’t have’ had a tryst with Fidel. His dad was 51 when he married Margaret 22, and it was known she was a bit loose with her affections, but getting to Cuba for a night in bed would have been a tad difficult. Justin, on hearing of Fidel’s death was distraught to the extent many Canadians were embarrassed by their Leader’s over the top glorification of the Cuban dictator. I like a bit of mystery.
7 5
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June 7, 2020 2:50pm
- Inandout
  
  Slight interest in Cuba led me to this:
  https://www.facebook.com/turningpointusa/videos/557997498126683/
  Want to holiday in this country?
  
  0 0
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  June 7, 2020 5:48pm
marcw

(This was written as a response to freedom 101 in the “Matts Letter” post, but after reading the link, is better placed here in GD.)

I like today’s David Seymour, but I have some doubts still. How can he explain his performance in the last two years of John Key’s government when all he seemed to do was argue with the then speaker (David Carter) and ask silly and petulant questions in QT. It was not a performance I would be proud of. Maybe he has changed, maybe he has found new purpose in seeing ACT gain more public attention – and he is the one to be credited for that. Hopefully in the coming election campaign he can gain a bit more trust, and importantly, introduce us and convince us of the ability of some of the ACT Party list members who may end up in Parliament with him.
7 2
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June 7, 2020 3:44pm
- Jack5
  
  Seymour performed well in trying to slow the firearms control panic after the mosque massacres. He wanted a measured, considered review, rather than the rushed ban.
  
  What has Muller done in Parliament until now?
  
  3 0
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  June 7, 2020 8:39pm
  - marcw
    
    Yes I saw his support for LFO’s as one of the positive starts to his rebuilding. And his work in getting the EoL Petition into this election.
    
    Regarding Muller, unfortunately, I suspect that National are already realising what a stupendous mistake they have made with their badly timed leadership coup, and as a potential coalition partner, ACT will likely suffer the fallout through not having enough combined seats with them to form a Government come September 19.
    
    1 1
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    June 7, 2020 9:22pm
Benedict Yu

I am despairing of this guy.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/covid-19-todd-muller-wants-transtasman-bubble-timeline-now/

How can the Government provide a Trans Tasman ‘bubble’ timeline now? Such a ‘bubble’ is subject to negotiations with the Australian Government (which control the borders) but also the State Governments (which control health policies and which have the power to quarantine people). So it is not simple.

Despite my opinion of this Government, there will be dozens, maybe hundreds of officials in both countries working to make this happen as soon as possible. It will happen when it happens. Todd Muller demanding a “timeline” makes him look like a right twit.
8 10
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June 7, 2020 3:51pm
- chaos
  
  Australia tourism is already advertising on no tv for new zeal and tourists to head over to Aussie when allowed. There is non reason why a timeline cannot be given now because the plan has been given to the goats
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337347
  
  And more so when Aussie and asking for those interested in flying to nz in July. Also a timeline allows businesses to plan ahead.
  
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  June 7, 2020 4:29pm
- C J Southern
  
  I disagree.
  
  When all is said and done – with our current “government”, a lot more gets said than ever gets done.
  
  A timeline gives affected businesses (especially tourism) something to plan around; granted, for the reasons you give, it’s quite likely that any timeline wouldn’t be particularly accurate at this point in time, but it’s still better than leaving people in the dark. And it’s not like Labour haven’t already set many precidents with regards to timeline accuracy …
  
  There’s nothing wrong with the “government” giving us something – keeping us informed – and updating it as and when better information is available.
  
  As a starting point they could simply say something along the lines of:
  
  1. If Australia & NZ virus stats continue to progress at the current rate then we envisage being able to open negotiations with our counterparts in about 4 weeks.
  
  2. We believe that it may take 4 to 6 weeks to come up with a plan, and
  
  3. Take up to 4 months after that to impliment the required infrastructure of that plan.
  
  Currently we’re trying to borrow our way out of a very deep fiscal hole – the repayment period (inc interest) is going to be measured in something between decades and generations. Budget surplusses are the ONLY way that that’s going to progress – and budget surplusses aren’t going to happen until the economy is firing on all cylinders – of which transtasman tourism is a MAJOR contributor. Thus the more information that they have to plan around the better.
  
  Not a huge fan of Muller at this point in time (too early to tell whether he’s an asset or a liability) (would prefer Sir John Key to be guiding us through this — Luxon would probably have a lot to offer too) but anyone championing for key business sectors to get the tools they need to move forward gets my seal of approval.
  
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  June 7, 2020 4:58pm
- bruceavon
  
  It seems like a stupid thing to pick to target to me. Given there is do much that you can attack them on. Most New Zealanders appear very cautious with regard the virus. So opening up the border to a country with active cases when we have none won’t be a big vote getter. and National were initially in favour of stronger border restrictions. not something that will have much traction with the public therefore why bother?
  
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  June 7, 2020 6:13pm
MH

I just realise I’m a racist. I’m inferior to everyone.
2 2
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June 7, 2020 3:56pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Well me, nor my partner, could ever be called racist.
  For a start, we don’t even know any black people.
  
  11 3
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  June 7, 2020 4:42pm
  - chaos
    
    Just put your golliwog in the window to show your support
    
    9 0
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    June 7, 2020 5:06pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I was going to, but whenever i take him off the bed, he gets this really sad look on his face 🙁
      
      8 0
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      June 7, 2020 6:47pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Many people accuse others of “being racist” or “of racist behaviour” – but I doubt many even know the meaning of the word.
    
    When I look up racism in the dictionary the two (similar) meanings that come back are:
    
    1. “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.”
    
    2. “the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.”
    
    Key word in both of those dictionary definitions is “belief”.
    
    Actual racism is an ugly thing, but the vast majority of the time accusations of racism fail because they don’t contain any evidence that documents that the people accused believe their race to be superior.
    
    – Poking fun at someone’s accent isn’t racism (eg “velly good chicken” – per accusations of racism against a restaurant owner who printed this on their menus).
    
    – Hawea Lions club dressing up in blackface isn’t racist; I can understand how it may well be offensive to some – but “offence” and “racism” aren’t the same thing. I’m pretty sure that those members of that wonderful organisation who give so much of their own time to helping others in the community don’t all think that they’re of a superior race.
    
    – The lady selling golliwogs; again, they may well be offensive to some but it’s not racist in the slightest because it doesn’t prove that the seller thinks her race is superior.
    
    In my opinion the lady on the bus who told the Asian ladies to “F-off back to where they came from” probably does believe that she’s from a superior race.
    
    In my opinion most racism accusations are a classic case of “the boy who cried wolf”; they water down the meaning of the ugly word resulting in people becoming more desinsitised to it – thus defeating the very objective they’re trying to achieve.
    
    That’s my 10c thoughts anyway.
    
    15 4
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    June 7, 2020 5:15pm
rangitoto

The Skripals living in New Zealand.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12337819&fbclid=IwAR3HrLWCoH2tWAO8ZsUkG3U_F1q-Ld8dprHtfy-LuXjot1cs3XYXl8LQP7o
3 0
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June 7, 2020 4:48pm
- Mike
  
  Be very careful of people with Russian accents visiting to admire our church architecture…
  
  4 0
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  June 7, 2020 5:29pm
Hard Cheese

Hold the front page! Stuff reports Jacinda Ardern buys 3 pairs of socks. Exclusive photos of her wearing them!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/fashion/121749675/jacinda-ardern-wears-nadia-reid-socks-after-attending-the-singers-gig-in-wellington
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June 7, 2020 5:37pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121724144/coronavirus-why-is-it-taking-so-long-to-get-to-zero-cases

This person will miraculously show NO Covid-19 symptoms on the 18th September 2020
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June 7, 2020 6:07pm
Komata

Concerning the Skripals:

Having done just about everything they can to give it away, why doesn’t the Herald just tell the world the whole xxxxx detail; their location of their new residence, their phone numbers, and, best of all, their identities!!!!

IMHO this is totally, utterly and completely irresponsible ‘Journalism’ (And an insult to that noble word), by some stupid little ANONYMOUS scribbler who thinks they are soooo clever.

The NZ Herald as a ‘Journal of Record’?? Please, don’t make me laugh!!
8 0
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June 7, 2020 6:23pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  I fear you could be right about that Komata.
  Time to get the popcorn in…..
  
  https://i.imgflip.com/1dsob1.jpg
  
  5 0
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  June 7, 2020 8:19pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  It was reported in The Times of London first
  
  5 0
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  June 7, 2020 8:48pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300027852/northland-and-auckland-drought-rain-averts-water-crisis-in-far-north

So can we expect the farmers and agriculturalists in Northland to build dams and instal reservoirs between now and next summer, so that this does not happen again ?
Will any positive action be taken, so that we don’t have to read these stories in the papers next year ?
3 0
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June 7, 2020 6:27pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

The Muslim Mayor Sadiq Khan has certainly done a good job in stirring up racial hate in London, and the UK:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1292350/London-protest-police-horse-injuries-black-lives-matter
4 0
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June 7, 2020 7:29pm

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