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May 16, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 May 2020

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General Debate

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PhilBest

Quote of the day: Britain’s Toby Young:
“…I’ve long suspected that senior civil servants think they know better than democratically-elected politicians and have no qualms about misrepresenting scientific or legal advice in order to manipulate them. But they don’t often brag about it in national newspapers, particularly not when still in post…”
Dr Jeannette Young, the Chief Health Officer of Queensland in Australia, has told the Brisbane Times that she urged the state’s premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, to shut down schools in order to send a “message”, not because she thought it was scientifically advisable. Here are the key paragraphs:

“…Dr Young says while evidence showed schools were not a high-risk environment for the spread of the virus, closing them down would help people understand the gravity of the situation.

“If you go out to the community and say, ‘this is so bad, we can’t even have schools, all schools have got to be closed’, you are really getting to people,” Dr Young says.

“So sometimes it’s more than just the science and the health, it’s about the messaging.”…
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May 16, 2020 8:04am
- PhilBest
  
  Also from Toby Young:
  “…The New York Times has an article attempting to smear all lockdown sceptics as far-right loons and conspiracy theorists, focusing on the dissemination of the Stanford Santa Clara serological study…
  “…but the estimate of the IFR in that preprint – 0.17% – has turned out to be more accurate than official estimates…
  “…which figure should be classed as “misinformation”? The one produced by Professor Ioannidis and his team at Stanford or the one produced by Professor Ferguson and his team at Imperial? I’m willing to bet my house that when the IFR of SARS-CoV-2 is a settled figure, it will be closer to 0.17% than 0.9%.
  The Times concludes its analysis by saying that there are two internets, one interested in scientific evidence and governed by reason, the other a Wild West dominated by right-wing conspiracy theorists…
  “…the authors of the article have got it backwards: it’s mainstream media organisations like the New York Times and the BBC that are disseminating propaganda, with the truth about coronavirus more likely to be found in little tributaries of the internet…”
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:05am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  We have had a lot of messaging and, an awful lot of massaging the message.
  
  I for one, am over it.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:31am
- Scott
  
  Also from TV3 The Project where they called American protesters, who were protesting for freedom from lockdown and were amusing themselves doing push-ups, idiots. These were the stupid Americans according to the panel.
  
  But The Project presenters have jobs. These American “idiots” probably don’t have jobs and need the economy to open up so they can get a job and feed their families.
  
  But the other thing is that the elite opinions just do not seem to value freedom. They just don’t understand it?? They think Jacinda is marvellous and everything she’s done is totally justified and she has saved thousands of lives.
  
  Those of us who value freedom say that we have been forced into house arrest and given just a solitary walk in the exercise yard of our local neighbourhood and only allowed out to go to the supermarket and buy food. Those of us who value our freedom find this appalling.
  
  And now we see that this government of kindness has passed legislation that means enforcement officers can enter our homes without a warrant if they think that there is some level 2 infraction going on in our house?
  
  The Project presenters just don’t value freedom? I sure as hell do!
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:03am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    It’s very easy to be entirely supportive of the govt right now if you’re a teacher or public servant at home on full pay.
    
    Of course we should be kept safe under an indefinite lockdown…
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:19am
  - BeaB
    
    Catching the end of the Project in error, I was horrified to hear Jessie Mulligan say, ‘”why are Americans so stupid”?
    A bit rich from someone whose knowledge is exposed every day on Radio NZ as patchy, shallow and limited. His restaurant reviews are cringemaking.
    Where does this asinine sense of superiority come from?
    Perhaps the same sources that keep telling us the rest of the world is besotted with us and wracked with envy, especially of our sainted Jacinda.
    And yet any of us who travel overseas know that even in Australia they generally couldn’t give a stuff what we are doing, if they even know about it.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:10am
    - hilaryt
      
      BeaB…can’t watch The Project for it’s air of insufferable ‘smug’ & absolute ‘right-onism’. That’s a terrible comment for any broadcaster who wants to be taken seriously to make. We know he’s a pal of the PM and the media are full of them & wannabes. Sigh….but mostly eye-roll, for their shallow, inflated sense of entitled self-worth.
      
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      May 16, 2020 12:00pm
  - tf78
    
    I think we should all be given a Credit for future minor crimes we may commit during the ‘enforcement’ of these draconian illegally implemented rules.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:28am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Yep, it a similar lie that got introduced into religion, sometime after the 4th century. Jesus died for your sins that you have not committed yet, so you are forgiven in advance.
      
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      May 16, 2020 12:04pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    The same show that consistently and trivially ridicules right wing politicians like the piece on David Seymour’s haircut the other night. Think they’re so clever but they’re so transparent
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:31pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  This is not a case of a civil servant misrepresenting scientific advice to a politician, rather a case of advising a politician about the psychological effects of a policy choice. Which is entirely proper, whether or not the policy choice is a good one or not.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:18am
  - Australis
    
    Entirely improper for a technical adviser to step right outside her field of supposed expertise.
    
    What does Dr Young know about mass psychology? Or political spin? Or the art of propaganda?
    
    This scientist is employed as a conduit of technical virological and epidemiological knowledge from the practitioners to the policymakers.
    
    The elected politicians must then apply their value judgments – probably taking account of a separate stream of advice from expert spin doctors/ message masseurs.
    
    Dr Young tried to corner this whole supply chain.
    
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    May 16, 2020 7:58pm
H. Upmann

Rest in peace Roy Green. Comrade Ardern’s first victim.

Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot would be proud of her.
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May 16, 2020 8:06am
- PhilBest
  
  How do we know he’s the first? He’s just the first you know about….
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:32am
- Tall Man
  
  No where near the first. Unfortunately.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:51am
- MT_Tinman
  
  The list should read more like: Tarrant, Gray, Ratima, Graham.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:30am
- JackRabbit
  
  And after the first “kill”, what remains of the tyrants conscience is shredded and all future wrong acts are buried in his/her unconscious, fueling and amplifying the tyrant’s madness and obsessive control.
  
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  May 16, 2020 12:06pm
- yossarian
  
  One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic
  
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  May 17, 2020 7:42am
PhilBest

According to the latest Spectator newsletter, in Britain with its thousands of COVID-19 deaths, one in five deaths are dementia care patients.
In NZ it is like three in five of our “death toll”. Which itself is unremarkable in the context of annual mortality from all causes. Who remembers the 37 deaths from swine flu in 2009? Who even knows that flu season “excess mortality” in NZ every year is several hundred?
One wonders how many dementia care patients are part of annual mortality statistics in a normal year, perhaps this is a scandal that politics everywhere should focus on?
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May 16, 2020 8:06am
- JackRabbit
  
  Apparently, one of the families of one of those “cluster deaths”, is irate and pissed off that Jacinda has used that death to fuel her Covid-19 bullshit stance.
  
  The family know all too well the circumstances of the death, and the risk of death, and the prevalence of cluster deaths in any year, so Jacinda grandstanding over it, is making their blood boil.
  
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  May 16, 2020 12:12pm
Captain Mainwaring

OK, in the budget we’ve been told we’re going to pay another shitload of money to feed the kids at school.
Did I miss something, because I haven’t heard a bloody thing about how many kids died of starvation when they were off school for seven weeks?
Someone is having a lend of us here, and I suspect it’s Cindy.
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May 16, 2020 8:07am
- yossarian
  
  Never waste a crisis to ram down ideology my friend
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:21am
- Gravelroad
  
  It’ll sound good during the election campaign, Capt Mannering, and that’s all that matters now.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:24am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Utter lunacy and ideological. It’s not the kids fault, so I don’t begrudge them being hungry and requiring a state funded lunch. But we have to get real here. We need to identify, accept and address the root cause: stupid parents who have kids that they cannot afford. That in turn is a result of paying young female idiots to breed with other young male idiots, the latter pissing off and leaving the mother dependent on the taxpayer. Thereafter, the kids are exposed to a precession of other young idiots turning up unannounced at 1am for a pump and dump. A great many kids who are sexually abused or beaten to death are abused by Mum’s loser hook-ups.
  
  People respond to incentives, even if the easy short-term option results in long-term misery. We need to gradually phase out a system that not only allows this behaviour, but cynically encourages it.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:34am
  - tf78
    
    That was the path that National were well down when these clowns undid all the good work set in place.
    
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    May 16, 2020 8:46am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Incentivising marriage and long-term commitment would give the best BCR, an order or magnitude better than any other social welfare spend.
    
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    May 16, 2020 8:47am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Social Welfare and WFF. SSP. State Sanctioned Prostitution. Paying you to bonk and have kids since forever.
    
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    May 16, 2020 12:14pm
- Nickc2
  
  More money for pubs and poker machines if you don’t have to feed your kids.
  WRT the above: You can afford to feed your kids when COVID-19 has shut down poker machines and pubs.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:42am
- MCos
  
  These are hard times for a lot of people, surely you know that?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121217158/coronavirus-where-to-get-help-food-parcels-during-covid19-lockdown
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:50am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    It sure is. But the fact is that vast swathes of “vulnerable” or “disadvantaged” people are such due mostly to their own dumb choices. It used to be socially unacceptable to not be able to provide for your family. Now we bend over backwards and contort ourselves to rationalise and excuse poor behaviour, even going so far as to blame it on the white man’s system. So, it is the system, but not in the way people think it is. It’s the relatively recently instituted system of rewarding the idiots and punishing the more sensible among us.
    
    Life is not fair and it is not easy for 99% of people, but bad decisions exacerbate the difficulties. Ergo, it pays to think and don’t make bad decisions.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:05am
    - MCos
      
      https://twitter.com/stephmatuku/status/1261063405047177216?s=21
      
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      May 16, 2020 10:38am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Interesting, but irrelevant.
        
        What does an obviously middle-class hypocrite’s opinion on other middle-class people’s valid concerns have to do with the consistently poor choices of chronically less well-off people?
        
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        May 16, 2020 11:10am
    - MCos
      
      I’ve had the unfortunate experience of lining up at WINZ three times over the years to apply for the unemployment benefit that my taxes have paid for, in previous times of recession.
      It’s real fun telling someone you don’t know about what you have in the bank, how much mortgage you pay blah blah just so you can get enough money to put sausages on the table and not much else besides.
      Fortunately I was back in work each time in a few months like the vast majority of beneficiaries. I read somewhere that 90% have a job in 6 months.
      I suspect that there’s a few people this time around who aren’t going to make that mark.
      
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      May 16, 2020 10:52am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        I think the salient question your comment raises is, why do you keep losing jobs?
        
        Moreover, your taxes don’t really pay for benefits directly. Your future tax-earning capacity is used as collateral for the government to borrow the money that gets sprayed about to all manner of vested interest. The taxpayer works on the hamster wheel, while we often get abused by the ingrates who benefit from our efforts.
        
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        May 16, 2020 11:18am
      - IC5000
        
        I have about three years living expenses in cash saved up although I’m clearly an outlier and I don’t expect many to do this. The hypocrisy is that the individual should take care of themselves and not not be reliant on state handouts and if they do then somehow it is character fault but businesses cannot weather a couple of months of no cashflow then its the ‘gummit’ fault and not the owners for an inability to plan.
        
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        May 16, 2020 12:56pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      That is assuming they can think. State education and media indoctrination remove the need to think.
      
      Teddy bears and Easter Egg hunts. Follow the LGBTQI Piper.
      
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      May 16, 2020 12:17pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I also wonder where the extra $25 a week went already.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:14am
  - Wired-one
    
    Working for families and benefit increases are obviously not working if the taxpayer now needs to pay to feed children at school. Its absolutely ridiculous how entitled kiwis have become.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:00pm
- wilderbeast
  
  Another point to note is that taxpayer funded food was provided to those same kids when they were AT HOME with their caregivers DURING the lockdown. Am I missing something? If feeding their kids isn’t the first thing they do with their money then I think there’s a bigger issue at play…just cynical Labour politics, trying to entrench dependency on the state and everlasting loyalty to the generous left
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s also an oblique attack on home schooling. Another reason to decline exemptions so State indoctrination can prevail.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:10am
PhilBest

From a short summary in English of the contents of a leaked paper (“Corona” paper) written by Stephan Kohn, a senior civil servant (“Oberregierungsrat”), who has since been suspended from his post in the KM4 department of the German Ministry for the Interior:

If we had not known that a viral epidemy by the name of Covid-19 was coming our way, or if we had not seen the pictures from Italy and China, then all the experts I know would have held the following scenario for probable: In February first surge of severe viral pneumonia in the surgeries. Some of these patients would have been sent to hospital and that might have provoked a short stress of over-occupancy, which however would have alleviated in April. The doctors would have been puzzled and attempted to find the cause and eventually succeeded. Mortality would not have exceeded that of a severe influenza.

That would not have made headline news, and life would have continued as normal. Many would have been infected, and therefore there would have been no expectation of a second wave. In the next year, Covid-19 would have done its mischief in competition with the new influenza. The immunologist Prof. Dr. Stefan Hockertz, who classified the present measures as the fundamentally wrong early on, says on this topic: a reasonable medical message after Corona, is that we must take the annual recurrence of influenza more seriously by observing general hygiene, for example, when visiting grandparents, especially in winter.

The whole page is an illuminating read:

http://www.klasseverantwortung.de/english/Corona.html
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May 16, 2020 8:13am
Grant

Some thing to mull over with your morning coffee
G
https://unherd.com/2020/05/the-hypocrisy-of-safetyism/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3
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May 16, 2020 8:14am
- Lee C
  
  That was a very very good read, Grant.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Great writing, txs
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:58am
- PhilBest
  
  Hey, indeed that is a great read. Matthew Crawford is an extremely interesting author and I didn’t know he’d written something about COVID. His first book, “Shopcraft as Soulcraft” described how he dropped out of the rat race of financial trading to become a motorbike mechanic, and how he thrived as a human as a result. I can greatly relate to that in my own experience.
  
  Now here’s a sample of his powers of philosophical analysis from your link:
  
  “…I suspect the ease with which we have lately accepted the authority of health experts to reshape the contours of our common life is due to the fact that safetyism has largely displaced other moral sensibilities that might offer some resistance. There appears to be a feedback loop wherein the safer we become, the more intolerable any remaining risk appears. At the level of bureaucratic grasping, we can note that emergency powers are seldom relinquished once the emergency has passed. Together, these dynamics make up a kind of ratchet mechanism that moves in only one direction, tightening against the human spirit.
  
  Acquiescence in this appears to be most prevalent among the meritocrats who staff the managerial layer of society. Deferring to expert authority is a habit inculcated in the “knowledge economy”, naturally enough; the basic currency of this economy is epistemic prestige.
  
  Among those who work in the economy of THINGS, on the other hand, you see greater skepticism toward experts…”
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:03am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Thanks – a really good read.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:02pm
- emmess
  
  From that Unherd article, this stood out
  
  But when some other doctors, “quickly acting on their hunches,” try giving men oestrogen to fight the virus, this, according to the New York Times, is the kind of out-of-the-box thinking required by the crisis.
  
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/health/coronavirus-estrogen-men.html
  
  Is that the end goal?
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:43am
- 3-coil
  
  Brilliant article – thx Grant
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:50am
- Surely Knott
  
  Brilliant. Great read.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:59am
- krazykiwi
  
  Good essay. This is so true:
  
  At the level of bureaucratic grasping, we can note that emergency powers are seldom relinquished once the emergency has passed. Together, these dynamics make up a kind of ratchet mechanism that moves in only one direction, tightening against the human spirit.
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:29am
- JackRabbit
  
  This bit is good.
  
  “A pandemic is a deadly serious business. But we would do well to remember that bureaucracies have their own interests, quite apart from the public interest that is their official brief and warrant. They are very much in the business of tending and feeding the narratives that justify their existence.”
  
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  May 16, 2020 1:04pm
oldpark

Once more just a reminder and a terrible act of betrayal and hypocricy. The Green Party led by the bloated face of Mr Shaw have sold out their principles and protection of the Human and Civil rights of NZs, their price a fist full of borrowed dollars .
Yes they enjoined “Auntie Cindy Control Freak” and the “Meglamaniac Peters” in voting for the punitive law for the Police to charge into the homes of NZs any which way in the pretext of Coronavirus abuse. Yes a very sad day for NZ. Not forgetting the complete betrayal by the now waste of space Green Party . Who in their right minds would even think of giving a vote to them . What for, for them to help erode the well being and lifestyle of NZs even more anytime soon . NZs should be afraid of the Present Political Control Freaks destroying the Human and Civil Rights of NZs by using the Covid-19 as an excuse . Go Figure that type of Political Abuse. .
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May 16, 2020 8:18am
- tf78
  
  I wish some one would tell Piers Morgan than.
  The closing words from Andrew Bolt on Thursday night were “poor New Zealand”.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:49am
  - Don Beckett
    
    [Sorry no, OTT and offensive. Mod.]
    
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    May 16, 2020 8:59am
    - north island kiwi
      
      [Then you can have a 2 week holiday to read up on the Blog rules. Mod.]
      
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      May 16, 2020 12:57pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Piers Morgan knew about and turned a blind eye to the hacking of a dead girl’s phone. His endorsement isn’t worth much at all:
    
    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/01/21/piers-morgan-and-phone-hacking-what-even-he-cant-deny/
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:49am
    - Nickc2
      
      Piers Morgan is just another mouth for sale. What’s his claim to fame anyway? He’s just another F_ing journalist after all said and done. I don’t believe he has ever done anything of note. He just makes headlines out of celebrity’s utterances/misdemeanours and gets paid heaps for it.
      I wouldn’t classify Cindy as a celebrity though. Maybe she is in her own mind.
      
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      May 16, 2020 11:12am
youcanthandlethetruth

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Chris Bishops new haircut has done more for Nationals chances at the next election than anything Simon Bridges has done over the last three years.
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May 16, 2020 8:18am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  So early and yet, wrong.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:34am
- PhilBest
  
  Not sure about that, the Boris Johnson approach works for Boris….
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:34am
Souvlaki

It’s my personal view that Stuff are offering better ( or more balanced at least) political commentary than NZ Herald lately.
Luke Malpass seems far more astute than his contemporaries like Young / Wild at NZME who are in love with Ardern….regardless of evidence.
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May 16, 2020 8:20am
- PhilBest
  
  Knowing Luke Malpass, I was gobsmacked he even got a job in the MSM at all…. and that the length of the leash he is on isn’t shorter…..
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:35am
  - MCos
    
    I thought his piece in Stuff was a good read.
    “The tragedy for the Government is that the more successful it seems to be at defeating Covid-19, the more it raises questions over the necessity of it all. And it will always be arguable whether the right balance between public health and economic freedom was struck.“
    This pretty much sums up the problem the government was faced with, although ‘tragedy‘ is hardly the correct word. I would have said ‘dilemma’.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:09am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Wasn’t Helen Clark, ‘damned by her own success’?
      
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      May 16, 2020 4:50pm
- Lee C
  
  He [Malpas} certainly got the ability – but can he show leadership?
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:52am
- oldpark
  
  @souvlaki 8.20am
  NZ” toilet paper” Herald better known as the North Korean Times . All written in accordance and wishes of the other well known dictator and control freak. Kim Jong- un.Nuff said .
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:53am
- all true
  
  All the NZ media feels like if you read a communistic propaganda paper released just by Lenin and Stalin.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:02am
Benedict Yu

This cheered me up after reading DPF’s 0700 post.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2005/S00194/budget-only-loose-change-for-the-climate-greenpeace.htm

Just like Golriz Ghahraman, if Russell Norman is unhappy about something you don’t need to check to be sure that is a good situation.
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May 16, 2020 8:20am
- emmess
  
  Fuck, governments have destroyed the world economy.
  What more do the Greenies want?
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:47am
  - Nickc2
    
    They want to sue governments for breach of copywrite.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:03am
Benedict Yu

I am not going to fill in these creepy registers at cafes and restaurants. I do not want some person at the Ministry of Health embarking on a contact tracing circus that involves me.
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May 16, 2020 8:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just enter a false name and address/phone. Fuck them
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:10am
  - sam green
    
    Steve would rather not know he’s been exposed and will potentially risk the lives of other people because he’s a _ _ _ _. (1. Hero. 2. Rebel. 3. Vagina.).
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:26pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Get fucked Sam. You are part of the problem – brainwashed. SLB silly little boy
      
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      May 16, 2020 3:56pm
      - sam green
        
        [Deleted – Sam, you’re just back from a ban. Up your game and quit the abuse. Mod.]
        
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        May 16, 2020 4:43pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Steve would obviously prefer not to know if the person making his food is carrying a highly infectious disease.
        Better to risk illness than have some cafe knowing his name and phone number…
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:15pm
      - sam green
        
        And I guess to risk the lives of his loved ones – just because the wrong people are not the government.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:38pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  By going to such places, you increase your risk of exposure to the virus.
  
  If this does happen, and you haven’t cooperated in contact tracing, then you will not know it until you become ill yourself, which takes a couple of weeks during which you will expose your family and everybody you meet, and they will expose their families and everybody they meet.
  
  Some of them will be less able than you to withstand the illness and some may die.
  
  But that’s all far preferable of course to you having to put up with something that you find creepy.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:33am
  - kowtow
    
    Sounds like what happens every ‘flu season, year in year out ,every where across the globe ………I’m having difficulty working out what is so very different this year .
    
    17 2
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    May 16, 2020 10:42am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      You are seeing the enemy as covid-19, but that is not now the real enemy. The real enemy at this stage is people who think that covid-19 is a good reason for taking away our freedoms and for not trusting us to exercise our individual rights in a responsible way.
      
      Covid-19 no worse than the flu? What, you mean the flu is just as bad as covid-19? Why then, we must make the compulsory restrictions on movement, association and behaviour permanent!
      
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      May 16, 2020 11:26am
      - kowtow
        
        No , my point is that we’ve lost all reason on this Wuflu business , which is no worse than a very bad flu season .
        For some strange reason the media and govts never lost their shit over all those deaths , or shut society down …….
        We do seem to be in a totally different reality now , one wonders how we got here so quickly.
        
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        May 16, 2020 1:07pm
- surfing
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You are a repehensible and selfish individual.
  
  Contact tracing is the one thing that can keep the NZ economy running. I don’t want Jacinda Ardern to have any reason for going back to level 4, but , you are that reason!
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:41am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The “reprehensibles” now who said that and how did it work out for her?
    
    So far 24 other reprehensibles agree with me.
    
    28 5
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    May 16, 2020 10:11am
    - surfing
      
      This could be you…Only plonkers try to escape the contact tracing rules.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY89dcgbi3w&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0cBTRSxXnLWdROCgSLCGHlpARbzY0Bmyd2GBVN0nOGDK0kuzpTDwCyBBY
      
      5 13
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      May 16, 2020 10:43am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Now 30, and every one of them is providing aid and succour to those who would argue that New Zealanders cannot be trusted voluntarily to exercise good judgement for their own and everybody else’s benefit – and must therefore be made to by law.
      
      Thanks a whole bloody bunch!
      
      8 2
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      May 16, 2020 10:49am
    - Gravelroad
      
      H. Clinton called Republican supporters “deplorables” during a presidential debate – not “reprehensibles”.
      I watched that debate live and knew as soon as she had said it that she was toast.
      
      12 0
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      May 16, 2020 11:03am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    And BTW I am not behaving unlawfully. I simply will not visit and establishments while that is a requirement.
    
    15 0
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    May 16, 2020 10:19am
    - sam green
      
      I’m glad you won’t be there. I’d rather be with people who do take responsibility.
      
      1 10
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      May 16, 2020 1:19pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes thanks I realised I had got that wrong after I posted.
      
      1 0
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      May 16, 2020 3:12pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Supermarkets weren’t required to take details, so why now? Continued vestiges of control?
      
      4 0
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      May 16, 2020 4:57pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Where was your opprobrium when 100s of New Zealanders died of flu last year, and every year prior? Come back once the PM-generated fear porn has worn off and you’ve realised this is a manufactured panic, one that emboldens the state to remove your civil liberties “for your own good”
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Who runs NZ? Bloomfield and the redhead from Otago? They may advise, if they’re capable and honest–both are seriously doubted.
    
    12 3
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    May 16, 2020 11:16am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      If by the redhead you mean Dr Siouxie Wiles, she’s Uni of Auckland.
      
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      May 16, 2020 11:42am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Sorry got my geography wrong. Dr Siouxie was the intended. (Does that name rhyme with sushi?)
        
        2 1
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        May 16, 2020 1:51pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    The contact tracing is not about Covid-19.
    
    It’s about people control. Do you really think that if someone has a strong version of Covid-19 that they are going to be able to telepathically figure out where he or she has gone in the last 14 days, all based on hand written sheets in businesses?
    
    Have we done contact tracing on the flu any other year? NO
    
    Have we made public cluster deaths in any other year? NO
    
    Have we published flu infections and deaths every other year? NO
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:12pm
- BananaLlama
  
  After the shit they just pulled with warrantless searches i wont be complying anymore.
  
  28 4
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  May 16, 2020 10:11am
  - surfing
    
    If everyone does as you do, the virus will return and kill people.
    
    7 26
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    May 16, 2020 10:44am
    - BananaLlama
      
      It be like this, if you are going to get sent to the sin bin by a bent ref then you did nothing wrong.
      
      9 3
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      May 16, 2020 11:10am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Here be a brain dead idiot
      
      2 4
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      May 16, 2020 11:51am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Return? What part of “it’s here to stay” don’t you understand? We will learn to deal with it using common sense, rather than common totalitarianism.
      
      3 0
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      May 16, 2020 12:42pm
    - north island kiwi
      
      it,s the frigging flu man, you are being lied to,
      this is so frustrating NZers are to trusting, you got to
      understand the goverment is NOT your friend they are
      not there to help you.
      
      4 1
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      May 16, 2020 1:15pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      If the virus should ever return I hope it is selective. One way of getting rid of stupid people
      
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      May 16, 2020 4:03pm
      - sam green
        
        So you really want to infect people? This is abusive and criminal. What a guy!
        
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        May 16, 2020 10:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Some people just need to be told what to do. Plonkers. Watch them at an intersection when the signals are out. No bloody idea.
  Yesterday I had to get out of my car and tell the idiot in front to shift it. Dead pan faced moron who needs to be controlled. Totally dumbed down.
  There is no CV19 on the Shore. One case in hospital – recent arrival to NZ.
  Fuck
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:49am
- TWEEDSE
  
  These hand written lists, easily copied by anyone else coming into the cafe, are perfect for identity fraud. No security of the supplied information.
  
  Just set yourself up a temporary Gmail account, forward to your current account and don’t write anything else. Your traceable without exposure to identity fraud.
  
  Problem solved.
  
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  May 16, 2020 2:34pm
Yvette

Piers Morgan heaps praise on Jacinda Ardern, wishes we ‘had a leader like her’
While some of the issues facing New Zealand have been glossed over in the video, thousands of people reacted positively to Morgan’s praise of Ardern and the criticism of UK leaders, with many saying Ardern’s leadership during the crisis has been a success.

“Everyone bashing this fails to understand the comparison of the proactive approach from New Zealand and the reactive approach from the UK,” one said.
“If the UK Govt had been proactive like NZ them we would be in a similar position as them but our govt said we’d take it on the chin instead.”

Another added: “Me too, she’s an amazing leader. People there must have a happy life. You can tell how downtrodden people are in the UK by their tweets, they have been groomed to accept receiving such disdain from a lying government. The Tories hate them, but they just keep standing up for them.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12332336

This demonstrates the success of Ardern’s slogan “Go early, go hard”
They in fact took more than 18 days to selectively ration their first 1,000 tests.
Ardern’s “success” is sheer chance and a lying slogan.
Sheer luck – like the virus not devastating Maori and Pacific Island elderly with multiple ailments, as was the disposition of those aged that died in Italy, France and Spain.

Arden may know how lucky she is, but will not admit it.
Nor will she correct Piers Morgan.
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May 16, 2020 8:27am
- PhilBest
  
  The promoters of Ardern all around the world are all simultaneously guilty of utterly misinforming the public about important features of this crisis.
  
  William Briggs, famous statistician, crunches the numbers from around the world and concludes:
  
  There Is No Evidence Lockdowns Saved Lives.
  
  https://wmbriggs.com/post/30833/
  
  “…There IS a sort of trend of lower death rates in hotter countries, or in areas of larger countries with better weather, like the US. Population density also played a part. It easier to spread any bug in tightly packed quarters, than when people are spread far apart. South Dakota, which had no lockdown, did 7 times better than Chicago (or all Illinois), which did…”
  
  “…The only evidence for lockdowns is the desire that lockdowns worked. That, and the embarrassment (and worse) in admitting to error. What politician anywhere will cop to ruining their economy and the lives of millions of their citizens? Who can say “Ah, it was only a few trillion”? This will not happen. It just won’t. All politicians will go on repeating that their lockdowns “saved lives”…
  
  “…There is a distinct tendency, at least in the Western media, to ascribe merit and blame for every event to people. What egos we all have!
  
  In the US it went like this. The virus was caused or exacerbated by the political party I disfavor. If persons in the party I favored were listened to, this would not have been as big a crisis. The virus spread so rapidly because of the actions of the party I disfavor. The party I favor helped stem the tide and saved lives. The crisis would have ended sooner, and more lives would have been saved, if the people in the party I hate were ignored. Science saved us!
  
  Nature gets no credit. Not for the creation of the virus, not for its highly variable spread, not for its highly variable infection rate, and certainly not for its hugely variable deaths caused. All those things were believed to be the responsibility of people. Nature has no real power, we think. It can be controlled to any degree of precision desired, if only we can muster sufficient political will and suppress our enemies…”
  
  The whole thing is a “must read”
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:38am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I was invited to listen to an address Prof Des Gorman gave to a Rotary club this week (via Zoom). He dismissed “hard and early” when it came to closing down the border, and said he would have characterised that as “soft and late”. He believes the border could and should have been closed three weeks sooner, and we may not have required as stringent a lockdown, with the resultant socioeconomic catastrophe.
  
  Also Matthew Hooton tweeted yesterday that the Ministry of Health has replied to an OIA request he submitted, and has confirmed that it only gave the Government health advice when making lockdown decisions, and now advice on economic health considerations including depression, addiction and suicide.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:47am
- bruceavon
  
  Well theres no doubt we did a better job than Britain. We had several advantages in being behind the curve of many of the countries and being isolated . But Britains response was shockingly bad. Boris dallied with a herd approach and then locked down when the disease was already widely established.The worst of both worlds. Then he himself almost died. The testing was a disgrace. At one stage we were almost testing more people daily than them with a population of 70 million. Even when they improved their testing we were testing 8000 and day and they were tested 18,000. I have many friends over there and its been appalling. The messaging and plan were completely disjointed and the leadership was a fiasco because in the middle of it all Johnson ended up in hospital. Its not surprising in that environment people like at what Arden did with envy. We probably were slightly late in everything but we had a plan, executed it and it seems to have worked. I still have no idea what Britain’s plan is.
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:20am
  - Nickc2
    
    Contrary to popular belief bruceavon, we did not have a plan. Stuff was made up as they went along. If there was even the remotest chance they had plan, it must have been how to exploit the situation in order to further enhance their implementation of a Marxism/Communism on the peasants of NZ.
    A plan to combat an epidemic would involve triggers for entry and exit of behaviours. Cindy’s mob couldn’t even tell us what the state of play would have to be before entry/departure to/from each lockdown level. Even now, they can’t espouse what the entry behaviour will be to enter Level 1 or regress to Level 3, let alone level zero FFS.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Poms have sure got their people stirred up. My daughter there is very scared for her family with an asthmatic and diabetic. The numbers reported dying makes NZ look like Paradise. That however is no credit to Cindy who preferred Muslim ceremonials to health concerns.
  The economic damage done to NZ will never be forgotten. Nor will the presently hidden mental health problems created and the number of resultant suicides exceeding the virus reaping.
  
  Doctors look at warts and boils they don’t have to consider the community outcomes of not being able to work. Do tourists matter to them, despite being 10%+ of our nations income providers? I am much more horrified of the consequences to the people collectively from not having our foreign students return and Queenstown and other places swarming with tourists. That gives us happy people in work and not supported by borrowing or our handful of net taxpayers. The risks are temporary: the virus today is not the virus of tomorrow so waiting for Pharma to profit from a vaccine is to wait in vain. We will still have to dodge a variant next season.
  
  We know that, except among the elderly and those particularly already with compromised health, the risks of health outcomes are mostly OK. The overloading of hospitals has been shown to be mindful fear so normal health attention has been re-prioritised as zero while cancer go undiagnosed. A handful of elderly Covid deaths are being deferred for a much larger damage to the nations overall health outcomes.
  
  Our Amateur politicians have not the sense or judgement to deal with these issues. They need to pass the baton to those who can cope. The matter has ceased to be political. It is not one that ideology provides solutions for: executive ability and judgement are required–kindness is not sufficient.
  
  Work provides a very large part of life satisfaction. The PM, advisers and Public Servant remain on full pay unaware of the the real harm felt by others away from their usual productive jobs. Jobs for the future are not jobs for now. Even less so when they present as hollow promises after their proven inability to discern and deliver. We need a very smart return to our former state. I’m sure other countries will be keen to normalise too.
  Going early and hard into the oblivion of anxiety needs to be avoided.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:52am
- chukar
  
  Was Morgan hit on the head by Brett Lee when he was trying to show off?
  
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  May 16, 2020 12:50pm
G152

All those homeless who have to be re-homed after living through this virus.
Liebor have promised houses for all.
100,000 at first as I recall and now with the homeless in campervans two pies is promising a thousand houses.
Any-one reporting as to why these people are homeless so the social services can orchestrate a more housing permanent solution ?????
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May 16, 2020 8:27am
- artemisia
  
  One reported to be a homeless family of 10, two camper vans needed. No report on why their previous home was no longer available so we will have to guess.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  On day 1 of the lockdown, my washing machine broke. This forced me to use the local launderette. And there is a homeless guy living there. I have a friend who works for a housing NGO so used him to get this guy a free motel room and three meals per day. He had a dog and they got someone to board and feed the dog.
  
  Anyway within a week, he had left the motel, broken out his dog, and is back living at the launderette.
  
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  May 16, 2020 8:51am
  - kevn
    
    @Ben.. Sounds like a labour supporter.
    
    28 2
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    May 16, 2020 8:57am
    - Cassandra
      
      Missed his dog. I sympathise.
      
      11 2
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      May 16, 2020 11:00am
  - Hollyfield
    
    Did you try to get the washing machine fixed? I expected that to be an essential repair and therefore allowed. And shops like Mitre 10 were allowed to sell essential items but only to tradespeople. Just wondering whether repair people refused to come, or whether you just left it. (I think I would have preferred 1 person in my house for an hour – assuming most houses have their laundry near a back door so he wouldn’t need to move throughout the rest of the house – than mixing with multiple people at a laundromat.) A bit like the difference between a supermarket and a butchers.
    
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    May 16, 2020 3:11pm
Paulus Gnome

HDPA again predicting the fall and fall again of Simon Bridges.

What is it with that woman?

In all her time on observing, writing and broadcasting, why has she not woken up to the fact that National hold the steady course through any storm while the socialist go for the mad woman in the pedallo every time.

HDPA, successfully predicting the last nine National leadership coups.
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May 16, 2020 8:29am
- Inandout
  
  Paulus G, follow the pillow talk. Does National really want to win this election? Best to wait for the wheels to fall off Labour next year, it wont be a pretty sight but from every disaster….
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:21am
- oldpark
  
  Seems a lot of “pillow talk” from her off sider known as Barely Sober . Long past his use by date. A lot longer than her daily rant against Simon Bridges. Then the fake news company she works for NZME better known as NZ “toilet paper” Herald has already nailed their fake news propaganda to the mast .Their track record of fake news even outscores the masters of fake news . CNN ,New York Times , Washington Post. The only thing keeping them going are the advertising such as the massive overpriced cleaning fluid which gets promoted daily on Newstalkzb alongside the rants of the HDPA .Recently their share price took a massive hit putting them on life support. Go figure .
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:24am
  - surfing
    
    From DPF…
    
    “Abusive nicknames for MPs such as “Ardern the liar”, “Golly G”, “Simple Simon” will be unacceptable. You can critique something they have said or done, but not just repeat an abusive nickname.”
    
    I’m assuming the same would apply to Barry Soper — you are calling him an alcoholic. Hope you have evidence.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:49am
    - Cassandra
      
      Come on! It’s quite witty.
      
      15 2
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      May 16, 2020 11:01am
- The Boss
  
  Paulus; This woman is as woke as you can get. Just another activist disguised as a journalist. As bad as hubby Barry. Cannot stand either of them. Every now and again they will criticise the government just to create the impression that they are not biased. I’ve had enough of them, they will not fool me. Don’t read or listen to their crap.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:48am
Bobba Fret

I feel sorry for this landlord. Seems like a decent bloke.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121496784/landlords-discovers-worst-abuse-by-tenant-in-20-years
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May 16, 2020 8:58am
- Bobba Fret
  
  My down ticker must be his tenant.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:34am
- surfing
  
  Failing to pay rent needs to be given an urgent hearing.
  
  I had this occur to me. As soon as the tenant gives up paying rent, they start damaging things.
  
  That happened to me, and I got out of the rental business as it was too difficult to micromanage bad tenants while overseas. Luckily we only had a couple of broken windows.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:35am
  - wairarapapaul
    
    Maybe JP’s could be used to adjudicate urgent rent payment disputes?
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:17am
  - artemisia
    
    Failure to pay rent is quite OK under current tenancy rules. No termination order from the Tenancy Tribunal permitted until at least 60 days behind, and even then termination might not be permitted. Anyway, good luck getting payment for rent arrears or damage, maybe $5 a week if lucky.
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:18am
- artemisia
  
  Possibly a mental health issue. Not the landlord’s problem though. Until it is.
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:18am
Yvette

Of 1497 total covid-19 cases, 1058 are European and similar, or 70.6% of cases, where Europeans are a 70% share of New Zealand’s population.
Asian cases are 185, or 12.36% of total cases, while their population share is 15.3%.
Māori has 126 cases, or 8.42% of total cases, but have 16.5% of population share
Pacific people 80 cases, 5.34% of total while population share is 9.0% [1]

Due to apparently unexplained reasons – unless it be just pure luck – Maori have largely escaped the devastation that their traditionally admitted poor social statistics in health, life expectancy, housing and employment, as well as their having some family structures similar to Italy, Spain and France, would have anticipated.
In fact the Government itself anticipated such a disaster, in allocating $56 million to the special care of Maori from the beginning of the shutdown.
‘Europeans’, meanwhile, appear to be infected in almost exact proportion as is their population share.

Since the Government fears for Maori have not being realised, what was that $56 million spent on, and is it too late for any remaining amounts to be paid back to the Government?
Because on top of that $56 million and the general business assistance payments that include Maori employees, Government has allocated yet another $900 million especially for Maori for the damage done to working circumstances – not damage by the virus, but by the Government lockdown of the population, when (like Australia) the only thing needing full lockdown was the nation’s borders.

[1] covid-19 statistics https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/05/14/1101216/covid-19-in-nz-the-numbers
population figures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_Zealand
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May 16, 2020 9:00am
- Kabull
  
  Interestingly, I’ve not found any reporting on the number of Maori deaths. Yet they were supposed to more at risk than other NZrs. Does anyone know what the number is?
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:29am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    $50 says there will be more Maori deaths resulting from the lockdown than from C19
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:40am
  - david
    
    Possible that you won’t find a lot of Maori receiving “ end-of-life-care” in the dementia units of rest homes throughout the country.
    
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    May 16, 2020 2:27pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Millions which were spent within days not on healthcare but handing out free stuff.
  
  BTW there was emergency capitation payment to medical practices – they recieved 3x the amount for Maori & PI patients on their books than they did for white patients.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:42am
- JackRabbit
  
  The $56 million was ear marked to buy votes. Nothing to do with the pandemic.
  
  “Grant, we need to pay the Maoris some dosh. We can’t have them falling off the Labour wagon over the Covid-19 fallout. Plus we need a big thanks for road blocks.”
  
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  May 16, 2020 1:21pm
Lee C

HDPA is delusional if she thinks Bridges is on life-support.

In fact, it is the current administration that is on life-support.

The Greens consigned to irrelevance by Ardern’s show-boating.
NZ Fist now shown up for the busted flush it is.

NZLP just don’t have the numbers to roll back the shy voters who are eagerly waiting to exact revenge in September.

The same delusional wish-thinkers in the media seem to populate the world over.

In their world, Hilary Clinton would now be President, and Australia would have a left-leaning Prime Minister.

Simon Bridges will win the election because come September many people will literally be too afraid to vote Labour.

There’ll be none of that tactical voting BS – it will be like when Clark was dumped in favour of Key – because the majority of thinking people will have had a gutsful of being manipulated.
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May 16, 2020 9:00am
- Albert_Ross
  
  I hope and devoutly wish that this is true. But I haven’t seen any evidence to support it. Polls, media reporting, social media adulation, all seem to indicate that most people genuinely believe that Jacinda is a great leader of our time and that no more iconic a duo can be found than she and Grant Robertson.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:15am
  - tf78
    
    I’m not sure Albert, I noticed Simon was very up beat the other day I think he knows something about internal polls that they don’t.
    
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    May 16, 2020 12:30pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    When the 18 year old’s turn the COL are in tatters.
    ☑️☑️Time to GO NOW ☑️☑️
    
    10 1
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    May 16, 2020 12:46pm
  - gorse
    
    What polls? UMR – conveniently leaked by Labour. The last Colmar Brunton poll had National pretty much where it was in the election, plus ACT going up. Sure Labour was up, but still below National. Never believe UMR polls, never been close to right during the election.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:57pm
Chuck Bird

Does anyone not support Seymour’s petition?

https://www.act.org.nz/mpsalaries
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May 16, 2020 9:18am
I remember when

Future Conversation:
When you tell people Kelvin Davis was the Minister of Tourism.
People will ask, “What was Tourism?”.
“Successful before Kelvin took over.”
“Who was Kelvin Davis?”
“He was the only CoL Minister who actually finished something.”
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May 16, 2020 9:19am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  I like! You make sick burn!
  
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  May 16, 2020 3:19pm
Aunty

A very interesting article on the Swedish experiment and how it compares to the approach of others. It contains some hard data which is a refreshing change from the usual overwrought hysterical delusional drivel that one so often reads now.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/15/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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May 16, 2020 9:20am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Indeed Aunty.
  
  There’s only really one question that matters.
  
  How many extra deaths due to C19 is tolerable to enable our modern society to function?
  
  NZ’s annual death rate is 7 per thousand* or 0.7%, if it “leapt” by a “massive” 5% that would be 7.35** deaths per thousand
  
  *100 a day
  **106 a day
  
  So we penalise and financially cripple nearly 5 million people to extend the lives of about 2,000 people, most of whom don’t have a good quality of life – and are likely to di e within months
  
  Isolate the vulnerable and let the rest take their chances.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:37am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Too complicated for our downvoter to understand?
    
    I’ll translate for the hard-of-understanding: I’d rather be living under the Swedish approach (being properly informed, being treated and behaving like an adult) than the NZ nannying you’re-all-children-who-can’t-be-trusted approach.
    
    This long term nannying approach is why we can’t put the risk into context and rely on the state to micro-manage our daily lives.
    
    Sweden = adults
    NZ = toddlers in a playgroup
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:14am
    - tf78
      
      Wavey all by order of the Kindergarten Cop Ardern. I like the Senator in Dakota who actually trusts her constituents enough to treat them like grown up’s.
      
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      May 16, 2020 12:33pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Groan! What are ya!
        
        You are referring to Kristi Noem, the Republican Governor of South Dakota.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:04pm
- Aunty
  
  What is interesting about this article is that it shows that the Swedish approach has failed to stop the spread of the virus, failed to stop the deaths, and most importantly (well to the readers of this blog anyway) failed to stop the economic fallout.
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:03am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    The Swedish model was never anything to do with stopping the virus or or deaths though.
    
    It was about managing the pandemic and remaining a functioning society.
    
    The economic fallout may or may not be as bad as elsewhere but they will recover more easily because they didn’t totally lock down.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:26pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Auntie, if you search long enough on the internet, you will always find something you want to believe. Anything else is fake news remember.
      
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      May 16, 2020 3:59pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Auntie, if you search long enough on the internet, you will always find something you want to believe.
        
        Yep. PhilBest will attest to that.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:08pm
MrTips

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I have not heard and I have not seen, that the Budget2020 contained any extra allocations for public health contact tracing, quarantine requirements, ICU bed capacity/ventilators or ongoing diagnostic/seroprevalence testing for COVID19.

This will be the measure by which we will live or die, literally and economically, over the next 2 yrs. We need NOW to plan this. If we increase our ventilator capacity to 1500 beds and have clear regional areas to, if necessary, quarantine the SICK, not the well, then we should be ok. Public health 101, no?

And we get nothing. Have I read this correctly or have I missed it?
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May 16, 2020 9:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’d have to check, but such provisions would not necessarily show up in the budget itself, which would not list with such specificity items of equipment, etc.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:32am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Fair point Mikey, but the govt should be taking control and telling the DHBs where some of the money should be spent.
    
    C19 needs a nationwide strategy – if you need ICU care and you’re in, say, Matatmata who actually give a flying f*ck if you have to go to Auckland or Wellie to get it?
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:44am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They’ve got at least another $20Bn to play with in Covid19 slushfund. (It’s all part of the $50Bn.)
      
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      May 16, 2020 12:54pm
  - MrTips
    
    That’s my point Mike. At this PRECISE moment in time, THEY SHOULD.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:58am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think you misunderstand how the budget works. The 2020/21 Estimates of Appropriation for Vote Health is a 120-page document.
      https://treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2020-05/est20-v6-health.pdf
      Even at that length, it is impossible to list the specific things you are interested in. Having a quick look, I can see for example, that there is a new allocation of $200 million for Public Health Service Purchasing, has part of the Covid-19 response package. But even the 7 pages of detail on that appropriation does not come down to more details on what specific services or equipment are being provided. That’s just not how it works.]
      I suspect if you really wanted to know, for example, how many extra ventilators were being purchased and where they would be located, you would need to make a fairly specific request for that information.
      
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      May 16, 2020 10:16am
  - Cassandra
    
    But you’d think it would warrant a mention in the Minister’s speech.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:03am
- tf78
  
  We have very high tech tracing capabilities called a diary.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:59am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  or have I missed it?
  
  You are not the only one who may have missed it:
  Economist Eric Crampton went looking and can’t locate it within the Health allocation.
  
  Dr Eric Crampton wants to see more transparency around contact tracing from the Government.
  and
  And while Finance Minister Grant Robertson noted in the Budget lockup that everyone now understands the importance of contact tracing, we are left to trust that this is well in-hand.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300012917/the-vital-investments-budget-2020-was-missing
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:01am
Kabull

How on earth did this get past the Stuffed front desk? If the people get to know what direction their magnificent leader really wants to go, they will revolt – or maybe not …https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300012145/its-important-to-understand-what-drives-the-prime-minister
It is very important to look at the 2009 International Union of Socialist Youth Conference papers Steve Elers provides in the link in his 6th para. Pay particular attention to the report on pages 42-48 of the conference papers. It is concerning now that we have a leader of that organisation (IUSY) now running our country.
If the Nats and ACT have any sense they will actively bring up Dear Leader’s connection with IUSY during the election ampaign.
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May 16, 2020 9:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Elers seemed to find this passage objectionable, for some reason:
  
  “Human beings are born with unequal resources available. We as young socialists believe in a social democratic system which secures a redistribution of resources.”
  
  It’s a bog-standard description of how a modern social democracy operates.
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:35am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    And you can’t see the problem with that?
    
    I own something and you, by state decree, are entitled to demand access or ownership to it?
    
    2 words : first one starts with F, second one OFF
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The state, by ‘decree’ as you put it, already takes ownership of a good percentage of your income. This is called taxation. The state take this part of your income, and redistributes it to a vast array of things, some of which you might want, and some of which you might not want.
      So I don’t have a particular problem with the concept of taxation, no.
      
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      May 16, 2020 10:23am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Not entirely different but enough to take issue with.
        
        Taxation is one side of an agreed social contract your suggestion was that property (of all kind) should be seized and redistributed.
        
        You’re talking about ownership of the means of production (the resources) not a shared redistribution of the benefits generated by that ownership.
        
        Your thesis argues for state-ownership in the name of the people of everything. Its nonsensical approach is why the UK Labour Party under Blair (their most successful time ever remember) did away with Clause 4 which is what your comment advocates.
        
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        May 16, 2020 12:22pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No, this argument sprang from a quote about redistribution of resources, which is a very mainstream social democratic position. I said nothing about ownership of the means of production or state ownership of everything.
        
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        May 16, 2020 12:52pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Yet those are the very resources that socialist social democrat parties want to take into state ownership.
        
        Not the benefits of ownership.
        
        I own a property rental – that’s a resource, it provides me with income (not a resource) that income is subject to tax. That’s the social contract.
        
        Socialism (various Labour parties through the years included) demands nationalisation of the means of production in this case the rental property and then taking it upon itself to apportion any benefits accruing.
        
        The passage that Elers objects to specifically says socialism and taking ownership of private resources.
        
        Say you have a 4 bed house and I have a 2 bed property – what you would no doubt call an equitable distribution of resources would entail me taking possession of one of your bedrooms.
        
        Never mind the fact that you worked harder or longer to actually own that property “I want to be equal so it’s mine.”
        
        You’re arguing for equality of outcomes regardless of what the original input was.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You are quite simply wrong. Contemporary social democratic parties, like Labour in NZ, do not advocate any extension of state ownership of private resources.
        Just because you want to build a straw man to attack does not make it any more real. You are perfectly free to imagine that the socialists want to confiscate your spare bedroom, if that helps to fuel your hatred.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:48pm
  - MrTips
    
    Ah yes, but socialists don’t believe that ideology applies to them. They don’t see any reason why their own positions of power should be challenged or questioned. Nor should their own resources be subject to redistribution.
    
    Socialists also fare badly in surveys of charitable giving or works. Not very kind at all it would seem.
    
    How inequitable is that!!!!!
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:07am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You think socialists object to being taxed?
      
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      May 16, 2020 11:06am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Hardcore Socialists are free to pay 100% tax if they wish, yet few if any do. They just want others to pay more tax. I think they should lead by example.
        
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        May 16, 2020 11:30am
      - Steve Todd
        
        @The Proper Ghandi @ 11:30AM
        
        They just want others to pay more tax.
        
        And hardcore capitalists/NACTS would pay no tax at all, if they could get away with it. They just want others to pay all the tax.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:20pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      Indeed, like all Communists, Cindy is very keen to redistribute your wealth but not so keen to redistribute her own.
      
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      May 16, 2020 2:12pm
    - greybeard
      
      I wonder how much of her $500,000 salary Cindy gives to the poor?
      How much of his considerable income would Mr. Gayford give away?
      
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      May 16, 2020 4:04pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How to get to Venezuela.
    
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    May 16, 2020 12:56pm
- niggly
  
  Keep a copy of the article peeps!
  
  What’s the bet the PM’s Office intervenes (again!) and either demands that Stuff management “refute” the authors article or demands it be “un-articled” (as in “un-personed”)!
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:01am
Chuck Bird

I certainly believe many would doubt Ardern’s intelligence!

Audrey Young: National’s uphill battle on a Budget for a crisis

“Like Key, no one would doubt Ardern’s intelligence, hard work or central role in dealing with the crisis of the day.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12332115
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May 16, 2020 9:26am
- wilderbeast
  
  Indeed, I don’t believe she’s super bright at all. Ideological yes, intelligent not so much
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:37am
  - kevn
    
    @wilder… Plenty of animal cunning and serious media coaching.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ardern fits the profile of an IQ=110, socialist bully. Judgment is predetermined for her by her ideology. Executive ability c. 15% Its’s her way or no other–typical of the unionist classes.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:01pm
WaveyDavey

So did we have full lockdown because

(a) the government didn’t trust the people to behave sensibly
or
(b) because certain sections of society really couldn’t be trusted to behave sensibly

It seems that following reasonable hygiene guidelines is the best policy. No handshakes, no hugs and kissing and above all no disease-spreading hongi. After all, in the modern age, where we now how disease and illness spreads who TF thinks sharing a random stanger’s breath is a really great idea?
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May 16, 2020 9:29am
The Proper Ghandi

Evidently, Kelvin Davis won’t “pay people to exist”, unless they are the underclass who rigidly vote for Labour. I don’t think the taxpayer should pay anyone as a matter of course and pure entitlement, but the double-standard here is ridiculous.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/tourism-ministers-blunt-warning-govt-wont-pay-people-exist
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May 16, 2020 9:30am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you not read the article? Do you think the government should subsidise jobs indefinitely until the tourism market recovers?
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:25am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    No, I don’t think that. If you read my comment, that would have been apparent.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    When will that recovery be? The message has been NZ won’t be reopen for tourism until the world has conquered COVID 19, 20 ..
    No vaccine is effective against a mutating seasonal virus.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh dear…
  
  Let’s deconstruct what Davis is saying…
  
  He’s basically identified a group of people that our Government won’t support… and if they cease to exist, that’s part of the CoL’s MasterPlan.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:02am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I couldn’t decode it. By not re-opening NZ quickly more people will fall over. I hope they’re not going climate change nutty too and welcoming a population decrease. Their reason is covered up by hubris so watch out.
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:09pm
wilderbeast

I know it’s getting old and predictable but I still managed a wry smile when Ardern said Nationals criticism of the budget was inappropriate, just like she said any criticism of the lockdown was inappropriate. How long until she legislates against criticism of the government?
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May 16, 2020 9:32am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Have you been following the 1pm pressers?
  
  Dismiss and ignore since day 1
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:50am
  - wilderbeast
    
    True, I must be a tiger for punishment
    
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    May 16, 2020 1:36pm
- emmess
  
  Will it be appropriate to criticise the government during the election campaign?
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:00am
- oldpark
  
  Remind her of the Twenty Billion Dollar slush fund waiting for election voting bribes anytime soon . Just saying . For the General Election on September 19 2020 .Surely not. Why would any person even think that .Yeah! Right! The Peters selectArdern would not even consider that idea of bribing the NZ voters . Even Crooked Hillary Clinton would not stoop so low in her quest for power and control of voters any which way .Teeheeehee.
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  That’s what the $50m to the MSM was for, to ensure the correct message was promoted.
  
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  May 16, 2020 1:10pm
surfing

NZ is intentionally dumbing down the quality of our doctors…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300013258/medical-school-who-gets-in-and-why

Given the choice of a doctor who has a very good understanding of homeostasis in the human body, and another who doesn’t quite understand the chaotic turmoil that keeps our bodies in check but they can supposedly relate better because they know the word ‘bro’… who would you choose?
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May 16, 2020 9:33am
rouppe

I had no idea that entry to medical school now prioritises 60% of entrants on ethnic grounds , while non Maori and non pasifika must compete for only 40% of places.
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May 16, 2020 9:33am
- Ian Boag
  
  If you did it (med school entry) totally on academic results, you might find that a large % of medical students were Asian , female or both. Just saying.
  
  Also there is the problem of how do you choose between a bright(ish) high school graduate or an older person with a four year science degree? In the US I understand most medical students already have a degree. Go figure.
  
  Not simple ….
  
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  May 16, 2020 9:45am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Excellent. We get the best and the brightest not those there to fulfill quotas.
    
    Quotas don’t really bother me when it comes to mundane everyday jobs, but when it comes to the important stuff I want the person dealing with me to be there on merit and not just making up the numbers.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:49am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Some questions exist about the correlation between exam results and medical skills in later life. I saw an extreme version of this when I was studying in Canada – an engineering PhD graduate who unsuccessfully applied to go to med school and was declined …. I belive they used a quota system.
      
      I won’t tread in the delicate ground of women who quit to have a family and come back part time ….
      
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      May 16, 2020 10:01am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        There’s also the approach that’s being taken in some US universities where some ethnic minority applicants are penalised for their ethnicity.
        
        But that’s okay because they’re only SE asian, not real PoC are they?
        
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        May 16, 2020 10:09am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        My Island Bay female GP managed to have 2 children, deliver many babies, become President of RNZCGP, lecture at the Med School (Otago -Wn Campus), serve as Clinical Director (mental health) at a Primary health care network, serve as Clinical Director – Long-term health at Min of Health, and somehow still have time to babysit her grandchildren and socialise with her friends.
        
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        May 16, 2020 10:22am
      - rouppe
        
        @Maggy: that’s pretty outstanding
        
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        May 16, 2020 3:54pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Sorry Maggie – my bad again – misunderstood.
        
        I was talking about perceptions that used to float around in the days when fusty old white men chose med school entrants on the basis of exam grades alone except for keeping an eye on the gender balance ….
        
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        May 16, 2020 4:45pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        that’s pretty outstanding
        
        Yeah, I reckon, but she said she wasn’t a top scholar…
        but definitely hardworking, well-organised, and thorough.
        
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        May 16, 2020 5:36pm
  - old skool reactionary
    
    “% of medical students were Asian , female or both. Just saying.”
    
    Great, white guys built this civilisation only to have Boomers give it away to females and foreign tribes.
    
    Its game over now though. Welcome to the Greater Depression.
    
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    May 16, 2020 9:55am
    - Ian Boag
      
      I think you misunderstood me. Asians and women score well in the health science intro course ….
      
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      May 16, 2020 10:03am
      - old skool reactionary
        
        Only from the north eastern Asians tribes, they have a higher average IQ.
        
        The education system is designed to destroy boys and groom females. Actually you can start with divorce and broken families. Boys school performance goes through the floor once dad is kicked out of the house. About half households are single mummery environments?
        
        Then there are ways to game the exam system like extending time allowed because females are slower to produce answers.
        
        Now of that matters now, Nature has a way of reestablishing its natural order and its just delivered BIG TIME.
        
        Welcome to The Greater Depression.
        
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        May 16, 2020 10:16am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Oh, he understands all right. He’d just prefer doctors to be white males.
        
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        May 16, 2020 10:27am
      - Jack5
        
        If you mould a profession so that entry reflects proportions of society, the key is which categories of society are those that count for the proportions. In NZ, reserved entry is by these classifications:
        
        – Race/ethnicity (Maori, Pacific Islander, the rest);
        
        – Geographical background (rural v. city);
        
        – Wealth of parents (provisions for poorer students);
        
        – Where you are born in NZ (there’s a category for refugees);
        
        Women have passed parity with males in medical school, but how long before there will be demands for quotas for the various LGBTQ classifications?
        
        How long before the bleeding hearts push for quotas for prison inmates – they can’t be discriminated against for ever by being restricted to soft-science Ph.D.s.
        
        Let’s have two systems. One for the Woke, with proportions for their medical school strictly proportional on a population basis, and without entry examinations. The second system to be rigidly examination based, and if that means all NZ doctors eventually will be ethnic Chinese, so be it.
        
        Martin van Beynen on who gets into NZ medical schools:
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300013258/medical-school-who-gets-in-and-why
        
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        May 16, 2020 3:39pm
  - surfing
    
    My GP is an female doctor from a European country and she is really really good. Way better than my previous male GP doctor. I have no qualms being treated by an Asian doctor either. Although I prefer them to be trained in first world countries because I trust that their degree is more likely to be bonafide and at an acceptable standard.
    
    Actually, one thing I’ve noticed, there seem to be a lot of GP’s that are born overseas. Maybe we just don’t train enough doctors locally? If positions are so scarce, and at the same time we are importing so many doctors, why not just train more locally?
    
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    May 16, 2020 10:04am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      We do train lots of doctors, it’s just that many of them then prefer to to and work overseas.
      
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      May 16, 2020 11:02am
    - artemisia
      
      Maybe we should train fewer doctors locally and import more ready trained ones. We know they want to come here.
      
      That would save a truckload of money, currently wasted when graduates head off overseas as soon as they can. One medical school would be enough.
      
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      May 16, 2020 11:40am
      - Ian Boag
        
        One of the offspring went to Med School. I used to pull his mates’ chains a bit with this kind of talk – pay off the student loans for imported doctors, bond them legally to stay for a while etc etc. Could be cheaper than training them here.
        
        “Not possible, only NZ trained docs understand Kiwi culture”.
        
        So I asked a few about their plans after graduation. Work in NZ as junior doc because NZ pays well for that then off to Oz for more dosh. Apparently Kiwi docs understand Oz culture ,…
        
        FWIW NZ basically has three med schools – Auckland, Otago and Offshore.
        
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        May 16, 2020 4:18pm
- emmess
  
  Is it any surprise then that we need to end up having to import all the doctors from India, then?
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:03am
- GJM
  
  And that is why I have a European doctor. Why settle for second best on something as important as your own health?
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:22am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I had an American doctor once. She was okay, too.
    
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    May 16, 2020 11:03am
Scooter

This was an interesting read but buried in the Opinion section.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300012145/its-important-to-understand-what-drives-the-prime-minister?cid=app-android
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May 16, 2020 9:39am
- Cassandra
  
  Fascinating. Explains a lot and should be widely disseminated. Or perhaps not: “S/he who robs Peter to pay Paul will always get the vote of Paul”.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:09am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Thanks Scooter. Very frightening.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:18am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I year old. Liz wheeler sticking it up Jacinda Ardern about gun control. She is correct, Jacinda does not understand. SLG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79qd9FY_q7A
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May 16, 2020 9:42am
kevn

@rouppe… Adding to this, is the lower pass marks needed by the special and extra tuition offered. Even exam answers, I gather from a Ngati Pakeha med student who suffered the process.
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May 16, 2020 9:43am
- rouppe
  
  Indeed. As low as 70% for those in the quotas with less competition, and I think it was 94% pass marks in the remaining 40% open competition group
  
  1 1
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  May 16, 2020 3:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jellyfish have survived 650 million years despite not having a brain. Gives so many people hope
27 3
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May 16, 2020 9:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They don’t have a heart either… just work on feelz!
  
  18 0
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  May 16, 2020 10:24am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQLhfy6CrR4
Trump threatens to cut ties with China as COVID-19 tensions threaten to boil over
15 3
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May 16, 2020 9:55am
- emmess
  
  Good, all countries should do so too.
  
  17 2
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  May 16, 2020 10:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This is a leader who will not be bullied, and will not stand for any nonsense. China will learn the hard way unless they negotiate
  
  11 4
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  May 16, 2020 12:00pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Ha!! China only has to wait until 20 January.
    
    0 2
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    May 16, 2020 6:31pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jChqUQeQ00Y
China plays political games.
6 3
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May 16, 2020 9:55am
old skool reactionary

So 11.5 million Italian workers are now applying for aid. That’s 50% OF THEM.

Anyone here still deluded about a V or U shaped recovery, anywhere?

9% unemplyment? LOL
GDP at 8% in a couple of years? LOL

We built a massive credit bubble of million dollar dog boxes in Manurewa.

Anyone here seriously believe it is still on track?

Out on the streets around Auckland here everyone looks spaced out like they just crawled out of the smoldering rubble of a nuclear attack.

What you need to ask yourself in order to survive in the years ahead is are you any good in a knife fight?

Welcome to THE GREATER DEPRESSION.
21 2
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May 16, 2020 10:09am
Maggie Pie

My partners only just pulled out and headed back down to the farm.
He would have gone a lot earlier, but he had trouble finding where he left his camo gear.
Being a fine Saturday, I’ve put the bedding in the washing machine. Must admit i smiled to myself when i saw this link – he’s actually had the same old pillow since his student flatting days 😀

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYAhqpxXkAMLi7N?format=jpg&name=small
12 2
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May 16, 2020 10:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I had a tramping acquaintance (old bachelor c. mid-50s) who informed us he had inherited his parents’ double bed with its 50+ year-old mattress, and that was now his bed.
  
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  May 16, 2020 10:38am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YUK!! 😛
    
    7 1
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    May 16, 2020 10:43am
Surely Knott

“Medical School who gets in and why” on stuff this morning. If you are a person of a minority race and you go to your doctor with symptoms of a rare life threatening disease, would you rather a. have someone of your own race. Or b. have the doctor with the best grades in the class and an impressive intellect regardless of race. 2. If you are a young smart high-achieving minority student who intended to achieve the med school grades without support, are you annoyed with the degree of affirmative action. Will this well meaning policy create further racial discrimination because locally trained minority doctors could then be perceived as less able and having received assistance.
16 1
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May 16, 2020 10:23am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ask yourself..
  would you rather be treated in a hospital in Singapore or one in Kuala Lumpur?
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-23841888
  
  For decades Malaysia has run a system that favours entry of Malays over ethnic Chinese into its Engineering and Medical schools.
  
  Singapore has never used ethnic criteria for entry to its Medical courses.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:21am
Bat Man

The surgical implants that will come
after COVID predicted in revelations.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/13-17.htm

16And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666.…

https://biblehub.com/revelation/13-17.htm

Keep it as reference when the Fake Vaccine
and implant is compulsory after the

Plandemic

https://plandemicmovie.com/

Don’t take the Mark

Keep the Faith

Kia Kaha
7 7
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May 16, 2020 10:53am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The planned vaccine with injected personal ID tracer does indeed fit the Biblical predictions. So does the rise of Bill Gates. Interesting time ahead?
  
  4 3
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  May 16, 2020 1:27pm
- JibberJabber
  
  I`ve a decent magnet here at home, with a bit of luck it`ll sort out any microchip.
  
  3 2
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  May 16, 2020 2:46pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s not a microchip gates has planned but some other combination which can be detected. We don’t know enough yet to plan against it.
    
    2 1
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    May 16, 2020 6:32pm
Maggie Pie

I just heard that creepy Dutchman on ZB with Jack Tame.
He opened up saying, “Todays show is brought to you by the letter F….. Figs and Feijoas”

It wasn’t the first thing that came to my mind 🙁
13 4
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May 16, 2020 11:00am
I remember when

When people travel Internationally in future will we return to the good old days and sing “We’ll meet again don’t know where don’t know when”
10 2
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May 16, 2020 11:01am
I remember when

Is being in Government like buying or inheriting a mattress.
“You have to lie on it”.
6 2
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May 16, 2020 11:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s no bed of roses…
  just hoping it’s not a Procrustean bed.
  
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  May 16, 2020 11:52am
Lucia Maria

The idiocy of the government’s restrictions on churches (no more than 10 people in the very large building & contact tracing etc) means my church will not open at all until the restrictions are eased.

I was thinking that maybe they might open and I could go sit in there at the normal Mass time, but no. Oh well, can go and sit outside instead.
17 1
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May 16, 2020 11:47am
- Maggie Pie
  
  I’m with you there Lucia. God bless.
  
  13 1
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  May 16, 2020 12:26pm
  - oldfella
    
    Me too, Lucia.
    And not in a creepy Joe Biden, kind of way.
    
    8 2
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    May 16, 2020 12:29pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We are all missing the lockdown of our churches. This feels like a deliberate act by the govt.
    What is the situation now with the Mosques?
    
    11 4
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    May 16, 2020 1:30pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Churches being locked down makes absolutely no difference to my life.
      Haven’t been in one for about 60 years apart from the obligatory weddings & funerals.
      
      5 6
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      May 16, 2020 1:56pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      What is the situation now with the Mosques?
      
      Watch closely this week.
      
      Eid al-Fitr is next Saturday – 23rd May
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eid_al-Fitr
      
      9 1
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      May 16, 2020 2:03pm
      - seismac
        
        Isnt there somebody living in Wellington –premier House comes to mind that will be out at the gate with the full hijab on to make a statement re eid at the right time to declare a limit of 500 on mosques intime for all to go and prostrate in time
        
        5 3
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        May 16, 2020 4:47pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      We are all missing the lockdown of our churches.
      
      What a load of absolute tosh.
      
      1 5
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      May 16, 2020 6:22pm
- JibberJabber
  
  The Churches should just ignore the Law, the precedent has been set with the Police saying they are unable to do any about 300 attending a funeral at Matamata.
  So there is no reason why any Church across the country has to obey these ridiculous laws.
  It`d be fairly bad optics for the cops to be filmed breaking up a Church service.
  The hardest part would be getting the Arderns lapdog media to report it.
  
  12 4
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  May 16, 2020 2:37pm
- Scooter
  
  So you are allowed 50 people at funerals but only 10 in a church, eh??? Aren’t most funerals conducted in a church?
  
  6 2
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  May 16, 2020 4:11pm
Nickc2

A short story on Cindy’s rise to fame. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGgsv8ycA0I&feature=youtu.be
16 4
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May 16, 2020 12:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She’s gonna hate this. Share the hell out of it!
  
  12 4
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  May 16, 2020 2:33pm
oldfella

The old rogue makes his play? Interesting.
http://nominister.blogspot.com/2020/05/the-old-rogue-makes-his-play.html
Will probably win him a few votes. And if Labour can’t get enough members to govern alone, they might need to make another deal with this particular devil, which if nothing else could cramp their socialist takeover.
5 3
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May 16, 2020 12:27pm
JibberJabber

Kayleigh McEnany, White House Press Secretary

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1261437262174146560

Right about now the US press corp are probably wishing Sanders was still in the job.
6 2
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May 16, 2020 12:30pm
oldfella

So, Donald Trump goes for a walkabout in a factory, and doesn’t wear a mask. Derision from the MSM.
Jacinda goes for a walkabout in a factory and doesn’t wear a mask. Crickets from the MSM.
Meh, nothing to see here, move along…
26 6
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May 16, 2020 12:33pm
- Prince
  
  Not quite. TV One was gushing about how she was out and about talking to her subjects, lifting spirits etc.
  
  10 4
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  May 16, 2020 2:21pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you see the clip where Pence was visiting the mask factory and ‘Live and Let Die’ was playing over the PA?
  
  2 9
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  May 16, 2020 3:43pm
BananaLlama

I find it very interesting that people prefer the geographic haplogroup of a doctor to be the same as their own.
What are your thoughts on this?
Is there any research that suggests it is common?
If so why?
mine is just anecdotal.
4 0
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May 16, 2020 12:34pm
plc

Rates Notice arrived from Wellington City Council this morning:

“The services we provide include ensuring households have safe drinking water, that the waste water system keeps operating, rubbish is collected, public transport is available to get essential workers to work, burials and cemeteries (sic) can take place, essential roading and safety repairs are made, emergency services (Civil Defence) are on hand, and flood protection is being monitored.”

Now if that is what they spend the rates on and didn’t include vanity projects and virtue signalling, I’d be happy.

It’s really not that, is it?
7 2
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May 16, 2020 1:04pm
- plc
  
  Not that hard
  
  3 1
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  May 16, 2020 3:59pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    TWSS
    
    2 2
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    May 16, 2020 5:04pm
lifesgood

I live in Auckland. I just accidentally showered for 4 and a half minutes. I am awaiting the arrival of the unwarranted cops.
13 4
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May 16, 2020 1:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Just leave all your taps running. Show those commies that a free man can use as much water as he wants.
  
  4 13
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  May 16, 2020 3:30pm
  - Tall Man
    
    We’re not all pathetic children.
    
    9 4
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    May 16, 2020 5:12pm
emmess

Trump 4D Chess

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/416772/covid-19-trump-says-us-reopening-vaccine-or-no-vaccine

Experts: Vaccine 12-18 months,12-18 months, 12-18 months …
Trump: less than 12 months
Experts: Vaccine years away, if ever
Trump: Back to work, then
2 5
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May 16, 2020 1:51pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I thought he was up to 6D chess, by now. 4D seems so 2016…
  
  3 13
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  May 16, 2020 3:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    TDS. Mike plays marbles – just 2 of them LOL!
    
    6 5
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    May 16, 2020 3:59pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That’s reassuring – I thought I might have lost them all.
      
      3 7
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      May 16, 2020 5:03pm
zulumonster

This beggars belief – Wellington City Council is proposing pop-up cycle lanes in Brooklyn and Lyall Bay. The rationale (for Onepu Road at least) is to “To provide more space for biking in response to Covid-19 social distancing guidelines” Impact is “Improved safety for cyclists and Removal of 41, P60 car parking spaces”

To put it politely – what a load of bollocks. There is so much wrong with this – who believes that this initiative will prevent any spread of Covid-19? And do the cyclists & pedestrians magically become immune to the virus once the cycle way ends?

I complained to the council recently regarding their 5% + proposed rates rise and got a very condescending response. They are going to get another email from me regarding this. And I fully expect a similar response.

I will also be putting in a formal submission.

https://wellington.govt.nz/have-your-say/public-inputs/consultations/open/covid-19-response-projects—proposed-traffic-resolutions
10 2
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May 16, 2020 2:06pm
tranquil

I’m very depressed with the poll figures recently (saying that Labour is polling at around 55 percent and the Nats at under 30 percent).

That would mean that a big number of Nat voters have “jumped ship” and been brainwashed by Labour’s propaganda.
They’ll be women, no doubt, as they are so “easily led”.

I find it hard to believe that so many people would switch from National to Labour but that’s what the polls seem to be saying.

Is there **any** hope at all for a National win in September? I’m starting to resign myself to another term of the “toothy one” leading us.
12 8
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May 16, 2020 2:59pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I can’t wait for responses to your claim that women are ‘easily led’.
  ＃votesformenonly
  
  6 13
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  May 16, 2020 3:42pm
- Inandout
  
  tranquil, please wait until the full impact of jobless numbers eventuate. Businesses are either closing or opening with reduced staff and the mighty real estate market is looking pretty sick. Sure the benefits will balloon in number and the lame brained among us will not think one iota as to where the money comes from. If Labour win the next round NZ will sink into the abyss and we will all suffer terribly because they really are amateurs at creating wealth.
  
  10 2
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  May 16, 2020 4:08pm
- lifesgood
  
  So you actually believe the poll?
  
  5 4
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  May 16, 2020 4:18pm
- bruceavon
  
  Don’t worry that poll will be as good as it could gets for Labour and Ardern. It was and the end of level 4 lock down our figures going down for the virus, people’s wages paid, the “were all in this together” sentiment. But now jobs will be lost, businesses failing, reality setting in. even now I am sure they will be polling lower. there’s a long way to go to the election. The odds are probably for labour still but a lot is going to go wrong. National just need to present a credible sensible alternative and wait for the stuff ups to pile up. On the bad side, Robertson given himself a 20bn dollar piggy bank to do what he likes with until the election. but if the virus makes any sort of comeback, they will be doomed. Or if we have to go into lock down again. Same thing. It’s not over yet.
  
  14 2
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  May 16, 2020 4:44pm
- Tall Man
  
  Not like that at all. Nowhere is the level of don’t know or won’t say shown. The numbers are rounded up to make 100% so the don’t knows don’t count …… But they will I promise you.
  
  6 3
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  May 16, 2020 5:06pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Oh, god. Still beating that sad old drum, Tall Man?
    
    I’ll say it again (1): when the “17%” decide how they’re going to vote, they’ll divide roughly in accordance with the percentage support for the main parties. The subject I’m relying on here is known as “Statistics”.
    
    I’ll say it again (2): NZ First and the Greens will be part of the next parliament. I told you this about four months ago. You said, if I’m right, you’ll pack up everything and move to Oz. Will you still do that, I wonder?
    
    4 7
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    May 16, 2020 5:58pm
- Prince
  
  That’s exactly the response Labour wanted when they leaked the poll.
  But notice that was about a month ago, and no labour UMR polling has been released. Why ? Because the results aren’t as rosy for Labour.
  Why do you think they ignored Bloomfield’s advice and went down to level 2 ?
  Why keep $20B slush fund to fight the election ? Why the renewed attacks on Bridges ?
  
  3 1
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  May 16, 2020 8:05pm
Bat Man

Are you all enjoying the March to Socialist Utopia

Work hard in 8 years you will have a surplus it is going to be

Commie Crap for Breakfast
Commie Crap for Lunch
Commie Crap for Tea

Punctuated only by the odd break while

Agent J

Prostrates NZ even further to Communist China
and Xi Jinping
14 4
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May 16, 2020 3:10pm
dad4justice

The comrade labour leader has us heading down the communist road as Aunty Helen pulls the strings. God help New Zealand.
23 5
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May 16, 2020 3:27pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  This is a rare privilege for Kiwibloggers. How are you D4J?
  
  6 9
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  May 16, 2020 4:52pm
- stigie
  
  Voting for Winston again this year Dad, he could need your help..?
  
  5 3
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  May 16, 2020 5:44pm
JimBobJoe

Jacinda Economic Flu…. I predict will be much deadlier than the WuhanFlu

The JEF is coming for us all.

Vote Labour out
26 2
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May 16, 2020 3:28pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Another term of this terrible Government will involve rioting on the streets.
  They will not take our liberties without a fight.
  
  14 3
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  May 16, 2020 4:04pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    But will Sergeant Wilson and Corporal Jones be there alongside you?
    
    2 13
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    May 16, 2020 4:51pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Will you be hiding in the Fraser House basement? These next few months are going to be very exciting. Expect the PM and Pooh Bah to both blow their fufu valves.
      
      8 3
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      May 16, 2020 6:38pm
greybeard

No self-respecting cafe or restaurant owner should ever let Ardern and friends anywhere near their premises again.
11 3
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May 16, 2020 6:25pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Agree. So bizarre. Did they really think we’ve got a small gap in the news today. What do you think the people want to hear about. Perhaps a nice personal vignette about Jacinda for a change.
  
  2 1
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  May 16, 2020 7:33pm
Bat Man

Will we get an implant ?
or a butt plug with an electrode?

Oh yes please

Will it be china made ?

When is the SUPERIOR “Socialist Science”
Finally going to be presented by the
Socialist Satan worshipers?

Could some of the mentally retarded people
who voted Labour Elaborate ?
or some other equally brain dead moron
from the Centre Right “National Socialists”

Who still thinks Communist China is a serious
Business proposition?

Seriously while we can still say it

F OFF

to Wuhan
2 3
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May 16, 2020 8:17pm
Bat Man

The Next Pacific War

is coming in your life times you think this
Covid trivia is the worst thing that will happen?

It kind of has already started just needs to warm
up a bit Duterte poured cold water on it -give it time

Think Again and Carefully

Do not be deceived again remember they all preached China Prosperity? I hope you are enjoying your China Prosperity?

Isn’t it Fantastic Isn’t if Fun Wow

This is nothing – they are capable of much much more and much much worse than this and
worse is planned – it is and you know it is

That is the only thing to be assured of.

Worse is coming and they are working on it frantically. Day and Night.

I mean what a load of hysteria wait until you
have some real problems when they blockade
Aus as part of the trade war?

A pictures says 1000 words comrades

Look

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeiDou#/media/File:Beidou_Navigation_Satellite_System_2012.png

What is the Focus?
What country is behind that?

NZ

Look Carefully

War is coming to your Neighbourhood

No one expects you to do anything other than to surrender ? That was basically done already when Belt roads was signed. To them you are just an Island like Hong Kong or Taiwan they get when they want it?

So relax NZ’s role (in the meant time)
is just to be a spy base for the CCP the CCP anyway that is all they want

and of course..

Casinos (tick)
Brothels (tick)
America out of the way (Nuclear free policy) (tick)
NZ with no Air Force (tick)
you disarmed (tick)
Control of the Auckland property Market
I mean the Communist Elites need nice
houses while you are homeless

Successive NZ governments are just giving them
everything they want without question and will continue to do so.

Check in here from time to time

https://www.globaltimes.cn/china/military/

They are always working on something to make the invasion of your country a bit easier like…

an Aircraft Carrier or 3 they will have 7 soon
that is nothing the other tech is impressive

or

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1187575.shtml

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy Marine Corps is striving to become a multidimensional force that operates beyond oceans and fights in all terrains around the world to serve as a fast-reacting force to protect China’s growing overseas interests, in addition to the conventional task of conducting amphibious landing missions, like securing islands and reefs close to the mainland, potentially including those in the South China Sea and the island of Taiwan, experts said on Wednesday.

They MEAN Business but it has never been the Business you were hoping if the recent rhetoric against Australia is anything to go by

Wait until the Communist’s in AUS NZ and America have weakened America even further

It is coming as Night Follows Day.

Their Intention is to Force a showdown with the US Navy when the time is right.

Covid weakens America further which is part of the plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeET4WB2As

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shMvpRebngc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJGv5lhm-ak

you will be enslaved first

Debt is slavery (tick)

Communism was and still is developed form of Slavery for the industrial age

Now with AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6_639O1v10

What you should be praying
Say a little Karakia for Aotearoa now it is ok to
pray when it is a “Karakia”

Pray
Australia has the sense to protect itself
with drone swarms and get some Nukes

Enjoy the Barbecue

You are invited – like it or not

Meanwhile take a deep breath and take a big whiff
of Commo Crap

that is what you get when your leaders bury their
up their smelly corrupt communist bottoms

Smells good

Another serving of Commo Crap on a plate

Yum Yum Yum

Thank you New Zealand Government
we are all in this together

We get equal shares of Commo Cap

Non stop Commo Crap
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May 16, 2020 9:34pm
Herodotus

A few years ago we had a National MP resign given his comments Don’t You Know Who I am – Will we see a Labour MP fall ? Creates a profile (To lift one you 1st need a profile !!) Cannot even both to investigate the facts. But on 2nd thoughts she will survive The advantage of anonymity
“She said she tried to send the screenshot in a private message to someone, but accidentally posted it in public instead.” She screwed up !!!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12332489
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May 17, 2020 5:12pm

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