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May 11, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 May 2020

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General Debate

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artemisia

Two epidemiologists on the wireless this morning – Professor Hendy and Professor Baker. And Dr Wiles saying the same thing yesterday.

All are cautioning against moving to L2 yet because, maybe.

Smacks of CYA- if wrong their comments will quietly fade into the background. If right, we told you so.

Not helped by Professor Baker, the um epidemiologist, focusing on how easy it was for people to get alcohol delivered to the door in the past few weeks. No agenda then. I suppose we should be thankful the sugary drinks tax wasn’t slipped in.
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May 11, 2020 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  CYA is exactly what PTPM will do this afternoon
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:31am
  - Hacked-Off
    
    The point is though that if Ardern does not go to Level 2 this afternoon then she will have a problem. Watch support for the Government measures plummet. Having built the image of ‘competency’ on handling the pandemic (hoping people forget the previous two years), any backsliding to Level 4 or being static at the status quo will see any support gained during it lost automatically. Being election year therefore the Government is forced cynically to move to Level 2 irrespective of what they actually feel or advice from the Health Ministry.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:14am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      When mothers are removed from their distraught crying child by the police, for protesting about having their right to earn a living removed, then governments have lost. They cannot go back to Levels 3 or 4 and avoid mass civil unrest.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12330831
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:28am
      - coolas
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Mis-information
        This happened in Australia not New Zealand
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:16am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Bro – Cindy is kind. She will never let this happen here in NZ.
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:34am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        coolas
        I didn’t say it happened in New Zealand.
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:35am
      - kowtow
        
        I love how the Media Party whip up anti police feelings by highlighting such fascist behaviour , when it was the Media Party itself which created the conditions for the mass hysteria that has enabled govts to act like , fascists.
        
        The Media Party , I can have my cake and eat it .
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:40am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        An interesting part of that NZ Herald piece was that Renee Altakrity was referred to as “the woman”. The Australian news reports showed the name. Why do New Zealand papers omit such important information?
        A Google search shows that she is a self employed beautician working in west Sydney. She was aged 36 with a four year old son.
        I have twin daughters her age and our eldest grand son is several months younger than Renee’s boy. What scares the hell out of me is the thought of where would I be now if one of my daughters and my grand son was treated like that. If I had been present I would have been in a classic “no-win” situation. If I stepped in Erich Honecker’s Aussie mates would have imprisoned me. If I did nothing I would curse my gutlessness for the rest of my life.
        It would appear that Renee’s maiden name was Geragotelis which suggests that she is of Hungarian extraction. My wife’s second brother had been an eleven year old refugee in Budapest in 1956. He had told me what a police state is like. I never ever thought I would see one in Sydney.
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:40am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        What a stupid bitch using her kid like that. Poor kid. Took away the whole message in my opinion.
        
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        May 11, 2020 2:45pm
    - david
      
      No problems today, testing is almost non-existent on weekends so there can only be good news on a Monday.
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:58am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Steve,
    
    You seem to have convinced yourself in your comment here and further on in General Debate, that the PM will stay at Level 3 for at least a week or more. Mostly because that is your view of the PM.
    
    I reckon she will announce Level 2 today, to actually commence this Wednesday at midnight.
    
    We will know in just over 4 hours.
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      We will see
      
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      May 11, 2020 12:00pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        I think these commentators are plants. Not to justify keeping us in lockdown, as that would be political suicide, but to pretend that they are being reasonable and able to compromise. We should have been out ages ago but now she can point to “experts” who believe we should stay in longer.
        
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        May 11, 2020 2:46pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Well, I was 80% right. Schools next Monday. It was inevitable that would be the case for schools. Bars on the 21st and groups limited to 10. I am assessing that as the 20% I didn’t get right.
        
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        May 11, 2020 4:36pm
    - freethinker
      
      Wayne – Looks like you are both wrong.
      
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      May 11, 2020 5:22pm
- Tricati
  
  What will Level 2 look like, as it appears the criteria is changing daily, which supports the notion this is all being made up as we go along. With the various experts, and their ‘models’ which seem to be taken as some ‘divine biblical script’ that can’t be questioned, we are constantly told we must wait. No opposite views allowed here.
  How many of these experts are currently unemployed, or at least work for a private enterprise, so have the real impact of the lock down affecting their businesses.
  And as for the government being honest; I think we have seen the true picture in recent days with Friday afternoon data dumps, gagging orders from the PM offices and I note the removal of articles that had David Parker threatening to take Simon Bridges to the Privileges Committee now missing from various news sites – Open & transparent my arse.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:32am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    Hmmm. Which would be better? This Governemnt making decisions according to its own judgment? Or listening to the experts and just doing what they say?
    
    Of course, the ideal would be a set of really competent people with wide experience and managerial ability listening carefully and balancing expert advice with sound judgment about where the experts are getting into CYA or tunnel vision territory.
    
    That not being a possibility here, I think on balance, given the character of our current Government, that it is better they just do what the experts tell them.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:28am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      The “experts” have ZERO accountability though. Further, one expert says X, the other expert says Y. Yet they are both experts. As is the case in any field.
      
      There is no evidence at all that this is anything more than very bad flu. There is none. And I say this based on the data that is being officially released.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:32am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Let the “experts” first prove their creds.
      Many are blind to common sense and it is the receivers duty to apply that.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:36am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “Let the “experts” first prove their creds.”
        
        Kev, while this has truth and validity in most situations, I disagree. Truth should never be absolutely judged by the person that delivers it. It is about the logic, reasoning and specifics in layman’s terms that matter, in what is delivered.
        
        It is a misconception, that complex subjects, in this case epidemiology, cannot be understood by the layman, and that the best the layman can hope for is to find the right person who has the best credentials.
        
        Ironically though, if you do not understand a complex subject, you will also not understand the worth or worthlessness of someone’s credentials in that subject.
        
        In which case trust becomes a matter of popularity, which is how we have ended up with a populist CoL. Based on actual track record, the Col would poll at less than 5%. That is based on the CoL having some worthwhile skills although as yet I do not know what they are.
        
        In the matter of complex subjects, I find that an expert is someone who Understands. And if they understand, they will have specifics, and will be able to talk in layman’s terms, all the principles, hierarchy of principles, logic and rational chains.
        
        And this can be summed up by : “If you can’t explain something in simple terms, you don’t understand it.”
        
        “The person who says he knows what he thinks but cannot express it usually does not know what he thinks.”
        — Mortimer Adler
        
        https://kottke.org/17/06/if-you-cant-explain-something-in-simple-terms-you-dont-understand-it
        
        https://fs.blog/2012/04/feynman-technique/
        
        This is why Mx Ardern does not like being questioned and can only speak what has been scripted.
        
        Sadly, her level of understanding of life has not progressed much beyond handing out Fish and Chips.
        
        She is still intellectually and emotionally a young child, having grossly delusional ideas about the world and following emotional ideologies that have no basis in reality.
        
        She is unable to sustain rational debate about anything important and lashes out at anyone who challenges her.
        
        We have an emotional and intellectual infant in charge of our country.
        
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        May 11, 2020 12:15pm
    - 3-coil
      
      StephenRussell (9.28am) – some of the so-called “experts” either have a hidden agenda, or are total idiots.
      Eg Prof Shaun Hendy. He has advised the govt re lockdowns etc – from his key roles in Te Punaha Matatini and also University of Auckland. These evidently biased “activist” institutions (along with Canterbury University, and Manaaki Whenua) tell us that “Maori are twice as likely to die from coronavirus than non-Maori populations”. Somebody added the inconvenient footnote to the the article: maori accounted for 8.4% of all cases.
      Maori currently comprise 16.5% of NZ population, yet only make up half that percentage of cases – not double! Despite these sort of idiotic claims/predictions, we should still be following Shaun Hendy’s advice?? You’d have to be a total airhead to base your decisions on what Hendy says.
      
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      May 11, 2020 11:36am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    And aided and abetted by our self described media.
    
    Fourth estate my arse.
    
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    May 11, 2020 2:47pm
    - curry4me
      
      Rachael Membery: Fourth Estate = Fifth Colum.
      
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      May 11, 2020 5:29pm
- SmokerGuy
  
  There will always be a chance it could come back but if we keep going in L3 for a week or 2 longer our economy may not make a come back. Even now the damage is so immense, more than it should have been. I think regardless of whether it is this week, a week from now etc people in a couple of months will be very angry with what this government has done particularly when we see Australia flying ahead of us. I imagine we will eventually go back to the days where our best people will leave to go to AU in droves.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:37am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    I think that if they are not very very careful , they will be removed from office by one means or another.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:34am
    - kevn
      
      The PG… Like time for the Governor General to step in?
      nah too many numb sheeples .
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:45am
    - freethinker
      
      PG – prefer the ballot box but sometimes the means does justify the end.
      
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      May 11, 2020 5:27pm
  - Max
    
    I am glad to have kept my Australian passport and citizenship, after 46 years living in NZ it would be strange to go back. After all I do not want to see our hard earned equity disappear.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:39am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘When the joblessness hits, when the homelessness hits, when depression and addiction and suicide hits – remember who wished for it. Remember who wanted it and never forget.
  Sydney Univerties Brain and Mind Centre research predicts up to 1500 extra suicides a year in Australia due to lockdown and economic collapse.’
  H/t Joe Hildebrand- he’s right. We’re at the point where the risk of some more dying from Covid is the lesser evil.
  https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/calls-for-urgent-attention-to-covid-related-mental
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:40am
  - alloytoo
    
    I suspect the redundancy notices will hit the emails on 1 June.
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:58am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      No, it’s really going to start now. It already has. Most will have 4 week notice period in their contract, and the four weeks to the end of the 12 week subsidy begins right now.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:36am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Sky City are starting procedures today to let another 700 staff go.
        
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        May 11, 2020 2:00pm
  - GT Build
    
    Already started here local Mad Butcher went in to liquidation last week and the owner took his own life in weekend
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:59am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I find this case incredibly sad, and without doubt, it’s an unnecessary death. The MBIE advice to the Government was that butchers were safe to remain open during the Level 4 lockdown. The Government, for whatever reason, chose not to accept the MBIE advice, butcher shops were closed, and now we hear of a business that has gone belly-up, resulting in the owner taking his own life.
      
      The Government doesn’t want you to hear stories like this. The arrogant email from the PM’s office on Friday said that the Government didn’t have to defend its decision, and the public would accept they did a good job.
      
      I’m not accepting that; not for a minute. In 2017, Jacinda Ardern told a crowd at a suicide awareness gathering at Parliament that “One suicide is one too many”. I’m now aware of at least five suicides in recent weeks of business people whose businesses have failed as a consequence of being forced to close during lockdown. That doesn’t include the young man DPF referred to yesterday in the post about evidence to the Epidemic Response Committee.
      
      My network is pretty small, so I would say it is almost certain that more people have died as a result of suicide that COVID-19 since the beginning of March. Sadly, the Government cannot or will not give suicide numbers; they won’t be released until August.
      
      This case shows unequivocally, yet tragically, why a Royal Commission of Inquiry must be convened to investigate the Government’s response to the global COVID-19 pandemic. I am strongly considering starting a petition; the only thing holding me back from that is media attention, which I can do without. Yes, the Government had to do something to slow the progress of coronavirus, but how do you balance that against the human cost in terms of lost jobs, business closures, and deaths?
      
      In the meantime, I send my most sincere condolences to the family involved here. I cannot imagine the anguish and pain they must be going through. Arohanui.
      
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      May 11, 2020 1:29pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Awfully sad.
      
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      May 11, 2020 2:50pm
- MrTips
  
  Once again, Hendy is not an epidemiologist, nor is Wiles. Wiles to her credit, does not pretend to be.
  
  Hendy on the other hand has neatly inserted himself into the picture in time for his CoRE refunding bid. I bet TEC are impressed.
  
  I am waiting for the media to solidly challenge Hendy on his 80,000 deaths claim. And he should release his raw data and model code. Nick Wilson has.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:48am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “And he should release his raw data and model code.”
    
    No, we don’t need him to release it since we already knows it a crock. We just want him to remove himself.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:17am
  - PhilBest
    
    Not only will the model be based on the nonsensical one used in Britain, I bet Hendy failed to make any changes to account for NZ being in summertime, having lower population density, etc. So much for pandemic “expertise”.
    
    We are still waiting for the so-called “experts” all over the world to admit that fresh air and sunshine almost completely mitigate viral infection and therefore it was a gratuitous abuse of the goodwill of the populace to put them under house arrest, close beaches, restrict outdoor exercise to “one form of exercise per day” etc etc.
    
    This bad faith is akin to telling people NOT to wash their hands, seeing fresh air and sunshine are similarly effective at eliminating viruses. So what are these X-spurts playing at?
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:23am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Models are fun to play with but not for virus advice.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:38am
      - Nickc2
        
        I had a model once but she turned out just like her mother.
        
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        May 11, 2020 11:49am
  - artemisia
    
    Re Hendy, us ordinary punters could be forgiven for thinking he is a foremost expert in the covid-19 field.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:38am
    - JackRabbit
      
      On par with David Clark, who thinks he is an expert in his field, or is that a bike park?
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:15am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Thank goodness Ive been banging on about this for weeks. My partner has a phd in Molecular Biology and has worked in the field for 30 years. She is no more of an expert in communicable disease than I am. You wouldn’t have a diesel mechanic fix a turbo prop .. but but they’re both mechanics.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:04am
  - Durden
    
    Hendy based his code on the Neil Fergusson Imperial College Model
    
    The Neil Ferguson code was finally released and has been analysed by various people who think the code is heap of crap.
    
    One comment is “On top of that, thousands of lines of undocumented C, one of the unsafest programming languages known to man, responsible for many security bugs, if not other issues…Unvetted, time-untested academic code cannot be trusted”
    
    https://lockdownsceptics.org/code-review-of-fergusons-model/
    
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    May 11, 2020 2:52pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Hendy is a physicist who has specialised in:
  Condensed matter physics
  Computational materials science
  Nanotechnology
  The physics of complex systems
  Innovation and economics
  
  His arguments are worthless.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:58am
  - PhilBest
    
    I bet he sucks at those things too if there is ever a political angle involved in the “research” outcomes
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:25am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    That is to say, all arguments are worthless unless they come from a person highly qualified in the specific field at issue. That would of course include my arguments, and I assume, yours.
    Hendy is obviously intelligent. His arguments should be given at least the same weight as any other person: which is to say: a bit, but only a bit.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:32am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      No because his arguments are based on him claiming expertise he doesn’t have. I’m not claiming to know everything about this issue. That doesn’t mean I can’t tell a rat when I see one.
      You are right of course that Hendy’s arguments should only have a little bit of weight.
      The issue of course is that he’s been given more weight than just about anyone else in this country. He’s the one that made the outrageously incorrect models that the Government used as justification for their actions. He’s the one that Jacinda keeps referencing when she tells us how important her actions are.
      In that context, his arguments are worthless.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:46am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “His arguments are worthless.”
    
    It is the analytical skill set that is most important. Every day, people such as successful business owners make correct evaluations and decisions without being an expert in that field. It is all about having analytical skill sets, and following the scientific method.
    
    Other people with the same skill sets as Hendy, but possessing actual analytical skill sets, and following the scientific method could have actually got it right.
    
    So rather than say he is an expert in the above skill-sets but rubbish at epidemiology, I would say his analytical skills are severely lacking, and he does not follow the scientific method. Which puts severe doubt in his expertise in the listed skill sets.
    
    The quickest way to end your career or undermine your credibility in your chosen field is to demonstrate stupidity in another one.
    
    Sort of like David Clarke, Twyford, Curran, Woods, Robertson and Mx Ardern. None of whom would be employable in the private sector.
    
    When your biggest crowning achievement on your CV is handing out Fish and Chip orders, it is a disgrace. And therefore hiring people of the same low intellectual ability is not surprising.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:36am
- marcw
  
  Maybe if these taxpayer employed spokespeople were told their employment will end like so many of those they are condemning to further lockdowns with their scare-mongering, then they will feel differently. They are all spouting out from the comfort of their well paid secure employment which biases their thinking.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:30am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    They would change their tune in an instant.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:37am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Only Hendy is not an Epidemiologist he is in fact a physicist that deals in modelling, Dr Wiles has a phd in molecular biology and is a science communicator ( makes science fun and understandable hence pink hair ) Baker has advocated ” stamping out Covid 19 ” and keeping it out for some time and is therefore largely responsible for the moving goal posts. Having encouraged us all to join together to flatten the curve he advised to go for elimination once that had obviously been achieved. Only nobody told us we were now participating in a medical experiment and not preserving the nations wellbeing. Quote from Wiki. In April 2020, Baker stated that New Zealand had the “most decisive and strongest lockdown in the world at the moment” and that it is the only western country where the goal is to eliminate COVID-19. Baker thinks we will look back on COVID-19 as “the most profound public health intervention in our history”. So now it’s all about experts time in the sun and academic ego.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:53am
- Sacha
  
  We will reap what we sow. Personally, I like these guys. Worth viewing if you have yet to be convinced.
  
  https://youtu.be/vJprwe_rWeM
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:49am
- Aunty
  
  All of this nonsense should now be swept aside. It’s a distraction. It’s yesterday’s arguments.
  
  What the focus now needs to be, with clear and laser-like precision, is how do we under level 2, stop ourselves from becoming infected with the virus. What concrete, simple, practical, cost-effective steps do I need to take to stop the virus from gaining access to my mucus membranes.
  
  And it is as simple as that. That should now be the focus, and that is what the MOH should be pounding the table about and issuing clear messaging and guidelines about. Do X, Y, and Z to stop yourself from becoming infected.
  
  We already know in the main what those things are, and we just need to keep the focus and the messaging now on that.
  
  And I am going to add a couple. When out of the house, don’t touch your face. Wear a mask when you are shopping, traveling on public transport, or around large crowds. And if you’re going to eat at a restaurant or cafe, swab the table top down first with a disinfectant wipe that you can buy in the supermarket. And if you are in a high-risk category, take your own cutlery. Asians do that a lot you know. They take their own resuable metal chopsticks.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:51am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ve only seen metal chopsticks used in Korea and in Korean Restaurants (outside of S.Korea).
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:29am
- Jack5
  
  Hendy and Wiles epidemiologists?
  
  Hendy is physicist and Wiles is a microbiologist (and you can see her at this link):
  
  https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2020/05/05/my-story-Siouxsie-Wiles.html
  
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  May 11, 2020 4:23pm
TWEEDSE

These quotes are from a Newshub article, June 2017, on Ardern’s anxiety
disorder. Link to article at the bottom and I saved the article in case
Newshub take it down.

Ardern –

“I’m constantly anxious about making mistakes.”

“I do live in constant fear of what might be. Clarke really tries to pull
me back from the precipice of anxiety a lot, but it’s just who I am”

“Ms Ardern says the pressure and anxiety has ballooned since she took over
as second in command (of labour) adding that it would be unmanageable as
leader.”

“When you’re a bit of an anxious person, and you constantly worry about
things, there comes a point where certain jobs are just really bad for you.”

So we have proof that Ardern suffers from an anxiety disorder which makes
her unsuitable to make decisions about the current emergency or for that matter any decision about New Zealand. She knows this and said the leadership job would be bad for her.

Can we have her removed on medical grounds?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/06/poll-jacinda-ardern-s-popularity-plummets.html
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May 11, 2020 8:02am
- Simon
  
  “Can we have her removed on medical grounds?”
  
  She has got flat affect really bad. Look it up.
  
  Only Labo can remove her. Labour Party is a feral organisation for eg Ardern covered for a rapist and they were ok with that.
  
  So Ardern will not be removed until Labo start polling around 35%. 35% is the death zone for any Labo leader.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:40am
  - rjay
    
    She hardly has Flat Affect. Google says there is no facial expressions if you have that condition. Hers is most definitely not Flat but the reverses.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:15am
    - kevn
      
      @rjay Is there a Manic Flat Effect?
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:49am
    - Simon
      
      “She hardly has Flat Affect”
      
      She does when the photos are not staged.
      
      A lot of the Obama Admin, including Zero had Flat Affect. But Zero did smile a lot for the cameras so does Ardern.
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:04am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Her stress and anxiety is also brought to you by the letters GCSB, DJT and NSA. It may get even worse closer to the election …
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:43am
- amospicton
  
  Was she telling the truth or did it merely fit her agenda of the time?
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s little wonder she suffers from anxiety if she is always striving for perfection; the two are simply incompatible.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Leadership is not about perfection. Some are brilliant – eg John Key, but most of us who have led people are happy to be ‘good enough’. I am sure John Key could list the mistakes he made as PM. However I am totally confident that history will judge him as one of New Zealand’s most successful PMs.
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:57am
    - septic skeptic
      
      One of the longest serving anyway.
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:54am
  - Liberty
    
    That might explain why after a Cabinet meeting this morning. The peasants have to wait until 4pm to find out if the country moves to 2.9
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:17am
    - marcw
      
      Unfortunately Academy Award productions take time – cameras, crews, scriptwriters, rehearsals, publicity agents. Never waste a crisis to miss a promotional event.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:35am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Especially when not attaining, it seems only bouquets not brickbats for Jacinda.
    
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    May 11, 2020 4:42pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Wow – I had not previously seen.
  
  Let’s imagine a scenario. You were being interviewed for a CEO job, not of a multinational, but say a medium sized firm employing 100 people. The prospective employer googles your name. 2 years earlier you had been interviewed by a magazine doing a piece on anxiety. You used your real name, and up comes the quotes that are attributed to the PM. Your application would not proceed. They would not mention the article, but you would be all over.
  
  My point is that someone who is “constantly anxious about making mistakes” is not suitable for a leadership role unless they seek successful treatment for such anxiety. And I mean any leadership role. You would be unsuitable for leading girl guides on a tramping trip, which involves leadership, organisation, and the risk of being injured and lost.
  
  I hope I am wrong, but it would come as no surprise if we stay in L3 for longer, or, more probably, there is a phased introduction, with hospitality venues needing to wait for longer.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:54am
- Yvette
  
  TWEEDSE
  Please also refer to “Jacinda Ardern: ‘Very little of what I have done has been deliberate. It’s intuitive’ ” – https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/06/jacinda-ardern-intuitive-courage-new-zealand
  This article documents the more impulsive decision making that goes with an anxious personality… as evidenced in the distance Capital gain Tax was thrown out of the cot, and prior to last Election, the dismissal of any other new tax until after the up-coming 2020 Election, when the proposed agriculture water tax became rather indecisive and was thrust aside into the Tax Working Group – being the first of a remarkable number of committees, consultants and working groups which also epitomise the inability of anxious persons to make decisions.
  Shutting down Fletchers construction at Ihumātao reflects a compulsive illegal decision, while the late shutting of New Zealand ‘s borders reflect the indecision that is the other end of Ardern’s anxiety problems.
  
  The 36-year-old politician describes herself as too much of a ‘risk-averse person’ to be prime minister at this stage in her career.
  “I just feel like there’s more people to let down now. I do feel an enormous amount of pressure. Because I know there are lots of people who don’t want me to screw up, and there are just as many who would really love it if I did,” she tells NEXT magazine.
  “It’s me knowing myself and knowing that actually, when you’re a bit of an anxious person, and you constantly worry about things, there comes a point where certain jobs are just really bad for you. I hate letting people down. I hate feeling like I’m not doing the job as well as I should. I’ve got a pretty big weight of responsibility right now; I can’t imagine doing much more than that.”
  https://www.nowtolove.co.nz/news/current-affairs/jacinda-ardern-labour-deputy-leader-personal-story-in-next-32958
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:01am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “It’s intuitive’…”
    
    So increasing petrol tax when she said she wouldn’t was intuitive i.e. she felt like it. “I’ll punish those rich pricks who use petrol”.
    
    “Ah sweety that liquid that goes into Daddy’s car at the lolly and icecream shop is actually fuel for the car. The lolly and icecream shop is called a service station, and those robots are actually petrol pumps.”
    
    Intellectually “clever”, but unable to progress beyond handing out Fish and Chips orders. Really poor CV.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:50am
  - Durden
    
    Jacinda is also guilt-ridden–another barrier to performance.
    
    “I did ask him [Barack Obama] how he dealt with guilt,” says Ardern, who first met the former US president last week. She is in the throes of figuring out how she will balance parenting and the prime ministership. Her baby is due on 15 June and she plans to be back at work six weeks later.
    
    “He just talked about the things you can do. Just to do your best, and that there will always be elements of that [guilt] in the roles that we do, and probably to a certain degree just accepting that; but we are still doing our best.”
    
    So advice from one useless flake who did zero for the USA (remember zero people went to jail for GFC) despite a massive mandate for change to another.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/30/jacinda-ardern-on-life-as-a-leader-trump-and-selfies-in-the-lingerie-department
    
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    May 11, 2020 3:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Happy Mother’s Day to CNN, mother of Fake News. She’s always in the kitchen, Cooking up drama and propaganda
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May 11, 2020 8:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Mother’s Day was yesterday.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    International dateline Mike. CNN is American, it is the 10th there. A person with your knowledge should know that
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:34am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      And you are on the North Shore, so what day is it there? Or was this your excuse when you forgot about Mother’s Day – that you were watching too much CNN?
      
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      May 11, 2020 8:41am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        When in a hole, stop digging.
        Doesn’t apply to mikey.
        
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        May 11, 2020 9:07am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I have an adoptive stepdaughter in Alaska. She has a son – sort of grandson to me. That is how I know it is the 10th in USA. Quite easy to understand, I don’t know why you can’t
        
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        May 11, 2020 9:32am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He’s employing standard D&D (Diversion and Discrediting) Troll Tricks.
      
      First he tries to discredit you…then he attempts to divert you..
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:48am
      - Tall Man
        
        He seems to get a substantial amount of mod latitude to me.
        
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        May 11, 2020 9:51am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        But it is fun to expose his basic stupidity
        
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        May 11, 2020 9:56am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Tall Man
        
        He seems to get a substantial amount of mod latitude to me.
        
        Indeed he does…
        MMA has perfected the technique of solitary smears…
        If Moderators only sees his quick one-liners and take no regard for the posts above or on previous days, then they may be unaware of his repeated personal attacks on posters here.
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:34am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Far too much Tall Man. If I behaved like him, I would be in the hinaki forever
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:44am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Mother’s day is not universal, there are a wide variety of dates around the world. Particularly different in UK vs USA
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_Day#Dates_around_the_world
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:55am
- Critical Thinker
  
  CNN: China News Network
  
  https://youtu.be/lfXHmW6SJEc
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:20am
  - oldfella
    
    China News Network? I like it.
    Just remember what they say in Hong Kong, grasshopper. ‘Don’t trust China. China is asshole.’
    Just like CNN.
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:14am
    - curry4me
      
      oldfella: CNN = XiNN.
      
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      May 11, 2020 5:41pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
  Joseph Goebbels
  
  Russia collusion
  Impeachment
  Kavanaugh
  All coming back to bite them.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:22am
- Scott
  
  Totally agree Steve. I actually think all of the mainstream media appears to have a huge case of TDS and an ideological bent to believe every situation shows that America is racist and orange man bad.
  
  Two examples – Gen Flynn appears to be vindicated as the charges against him have been dropped by the Justice Department. We were reliably informed by CNN and the rest of the mainstream media that Gen Flynn was in collusion with the Russians and a part of the wider scheme by Donald Trump in collusion with Vladimir Putin to steal the election from Hillary Clinton and govern as a Russian stooge. CNN had that Russia story for three years and ran with nothing else.
  But the case against Gen Flynn was all bull. There was never any evidence against him.
  https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/dirty-dozen-12-revelations-sunk-muellers-case-against
  
  And now we have the case of the innocent black man jogging and being set upon by two white men who shot him for no reason. Well maybe that story is falling apart as well. According to reporting today, the innocent black man Ahmaud Arbery is on video entering someone’s home and running out after being spotted by a neighbour.
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/oopsie-ajc-video-appears-show-ahmaud-arbery-entering-home-mcmichaels-street-running-spotted-neighbor/
  
  It seems pretty hard to get actual objective truthful reporting these days??!
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:22am
  - kowtow
    
    “America is racist ”
    
    Yep , eg of all the murders there ours chose to cover the 2 white guys shoot a black guy.
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:48am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      kowtow
      This is the point I make quite often, much to the annoyance of some people who cannot accept an uncomfortable reality: it is racial/tribal thinking, and objective facts are irrelevant. Human nature is tribal and expressed by in-group bias behaviour. We can disagree with it, but we can’t change it. This is why ethnically homogenous societies have little social conflict, ethnic tensions and disorder. It’s just a fact.
      
      It doesn’t matter that 80% of black murder victims are murdered by other blacks. That is an in-group issue, so it doesn’t matter. But when someone from outside the group does the same (and in this case, it was self-defence against a hostile criminal – see the link to the video I have posted), that is not OK because they think tribally.
      
      American society is a vision of all of our futures.
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    CNN, Wash Post and CNBC et al never back track on a story they know to be a lie. They like our Herald and Stuff have realised that to do so doesn’t sell advertising or newspapers. However, they all know that manufactured news does sell.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:31am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Those guys have been charged based on a tweet from a meat head named Le Bron James. The guy was not jogging: he was running down the road having been spooked while preparing to commit a burglary. He was wearing cut off jeans and Timberland boots (those images seem to have been removed from Twitter, I can’t imagine why though).Then he attacked the guys who were legally armed (whether or not they should have bailed him up is an open question). He tried to grab the gun from the son, and punched him in the head several times. Then his bad decisions caught up on him:
    
    https://twitter.com/VANGUARDWORLD13/status/1259240076107644928
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:51am
  - Batman
    
    I almost don’t actually believe what I’m reading from you lot, except that I can.
    
    Set aside the idiocy of believing that Barr isn’t corruptly letting off a criminal who lied to the FBI for a moment, and let’s look at your other point.
    
    You and Gateway Pundit (unsurprising from them) have connected blurry security camera footage which doesn’t identify anything, and concluded that it shows the murder victim commiting a crime.
    
    Frankly, that is some real nice subconscious racism you got going on there!
    
    Aside from anything else, even if it was the same person, you don’t pull over and wait for them to jog past, then confront them and SHOOT THEM. That’s called felony murder, as they’ve been charged with.
    
    What the hell is wrong with you? Jeeeezus.
    
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    May 11, 2020 3:34pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He’s standing solidly with southern US racists, that’s what’s wrong with him.
      
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      May 11, 2020 3:47pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Flynn didn’t lie to the FBI during his interview at the Whitehouse
      That was confirmed ages ago
      Strozyk lied and Page conspired to help him.
      And you’ve been shown this multiple times
      Calling Barr corrupt is just stupid.
      
      Batman is Kiwiblogs Dumbest Commentator
      
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      May 11, 2020 4:30pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘“The interviewing agents asked FLYNN if he recalled any conversation with Kislyak in which the expulsions were discussed, where Flynn might have encouraged Kislyak not to escalate the situation, to keep the Russian response reciprocal, or not to engage in a “tit-for-tat.” FLYNN responded “Not really. I don’t remember. It wasn’t “Don’t do anything.”
        
        Flynn never even said the word ‘Sanctions’.
        And he was never warned about lying either
        The DOJ have confirmed that.
        
        Still haven’t heard back about that bet.
        You chicken?
        
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        May 11, 2020 4:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Flynn must have been pretty damn stupid to plead guilty then…
        LOL
        
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        May 11, 2020 4:55pm
      - Vory v zakone
        
        And the Referee’s, who wants to be a player, head will explode when the next ‘bombshell’ comes out and more declassified information is released (this week maybe?) It will be pretty to watch ?
        
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        May 11, 2020 5:21pm
- BeeJay
  
  Oh Steve, really? What about all the other Channels that don’t love the Donald? Even Fox is coming under fire cos they don’t all love him wholeheartedly “Hannity loves me” and “ Tucker loves me” but “some of the others aren’t loving me enough”! So, the new favourite is OANN, just watch Trump when questions flow, straight to OANN he goes “cos they love me more than Fox”! FFS the guy really is a moron!
  But today they’re talking about a Republican going to challenge Trump in the primary! Former MA Governor Bill Weld yesterday launched his campaign to challenge Trump in 2020, and already is polling at 8%! Previous examples of challengers to sitting Presidents in US has resulted in sitting Presidents losing! Interesting times?
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump 2020 landslide – you know it.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:35am
    - BeeJay
      
      In your dreams?
      
      2 17
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      May 11, 2020 9:45am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Prob in your nightmares son
        
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        May 11, 2020 3:16pm
PhilBest

Another incredibly relevant point of comparison between Jacinda and “the anti-Jacinda”, South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem :

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/05/09/showdown-south-dakota-gov-gives-ultimatum-to-sioux-tribe-to-take-down-covid19-checkpoints-n2568527

Showdown: South Dakota Gov. Battles Sioux Tribe Over Coronavirus Checkpoints

Here’s the original article I linked to on 26 April, drawing attention to this amazing woman as “the anti-Jacinda”:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/22/exclusive-south-dakota-gov-kristi-noem-on-beating-coronavirus-without-lockdown-were-much-better-on-offense/

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem on Beating Coronavirus Without Lockdown
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May 11, 2020 8:03am
- SGA
  
  Ever been to South Dakota? I have (albeit a while ago now) – no one lives there 😉
  
  Ok, that’s a exaggeration. The place is a bit under twice the size of the North Island, with a population of about 900,000. The entire metro population of its biggest city, Sioux Falls, is under 300,000 (i.e., about 1/5th the size of Auckland).
  
  And in January-February (when the virus was spreading in the USA before states began locking down), there would be minimal international or interstate travel into South Dakota (few in their right mind are choosing that time of year to visit Mt Rushmore). Winters are harsh there.
  
  Just as you aren’t keen to compare NZ with Italy or NY (say), to be fair you might reconsider comparing NZ in Jan/Feb with South Dakota in Jan/Feb.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:31am
MT_Tinman

Another day!

Another racist organisation stating they know better and they’re going it alone (at our expense).

And funniest of all: A prisoner, overnight, broke out of his prison – into the all-of-New Zealand prison.

I’m betting in the cold light of day he’s already banging on the doors of Rimutaka Prison begging to be let back in.
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May 11, 2020 8:06am
- Inandout
  
  MT, this prisoner may have been looking for Angry’s promised ballot box to vote in this election.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:52am
alloytoo

The quest for excellence is likely to produce diversity.

The quest for diversity is less likely to lead to excellence.
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May 11, 2020 8:08am
Blackface Twin Reverb

Dear Mods,
What is the policy for repeated links to a page or site from a thread?
I’m talking at least three links to the same page in a thread by a single commentor.
I’ve looked through the Comments policy and cant see anything obvious regarding “Linkwhoring”. I remember Pete George used to get hammered for constantly linking to his own website in order to drive traffic, and would appreciate a bit of clarity.
Cheers.
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May 11, 2020 8:10am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Mods sometimes warn people. It’s no big deal though is it? Just ignore the whore’s links…
  
  {Mod: I generally warn if someone has more than two links in a post. Hugh Pavlecich was notoriously bad, and didn’t get the hint]
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:32am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I wondered what happened to Hughie.
    
    14 1
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    May 11, 2020 9:09am
    - All_on_Red
      
      What happened to Stephieboy?
      
      8 2
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      May 11, 2020 10:07am
      - Swifty
        
        Banned for duration of lockdown.
        
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        May 11, 2020 11:17am
      - Dougal10
        
        Reborn under a new name and kicked off again already is my guess
        
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        May 11, 2020 11:22am
    - Swifty
      
      Who cares Cap’n?
      
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      May 11, 2020 11:17am
- Pete George
  
  I didn’t constantly link, and it wasn’t to drive traffic (I’ve got no need to do that).
  
  The usual aim was to post a summary here and to link to further details (that was the original motivation for setting up my own blog). This part quote and link is a very common and way of using the Internet. The web is built on linked information.
  
  From there it’s the free choice of anyone to ignore the comment, or to seek further information if they like. I don’t think any harm has ever been done to anyone. Faux outrage is just a common tactic to try to discredit information by people who seem to hate different opinions and news that doesn’t fit within their comfort zone.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:49am
  - Simon
    
    PG you should have linked to your post about proceeds of crime.
    
    Will link. It was very good. Everyone should read.
    
    https://yournz.org/2020/05/03/despite-fine-reparation-and-sentence-police-restrain-all-companys-assets-for-proceeds-of-crime-a-health-and-safety-offence/
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:01am
  - PhilBest
    
    I think that’s a perfectly legitimate approach as an alternative to making long comments here, which also annoys some readers. You can be damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:17am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    Really queen?
    Anyway, this wasn’t about you specifically, just getting guidance from the moderators on what is and isn’t linkwhoring, and what DPF’s boundaries are.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:23am
Ruahine

Guess what day it is children.
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May 11, 2020 8:10am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Monday?
  
  7 14
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  May 11, 2020 8:32am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Heh, is that you Cindy?
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:40am
Paulus

It appears to be understood this morning, with the attempt to shut it down, that there is blood on the walls of the Beehive as the release of an arrogant and stupid memo only goes to show what we have already known, but not fully understood, that there is a Control Freak at work from there.
This arrogance has been brewing daily around one o’clock and getting worse with the compliant selected so called media.
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May 11, 2020 8:13am
- Simon
  
  Yep the left proclaimed the gagging order was some amazing communications win but it turns out the gagging order was in of itself a communications failure. Well that’s the latest Ardern spin.
  
  Cant make this shit up.
  
  The Ardern government is spiraling bigly.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  This is to be Robbo’s & Cindy week. L3 will morph into darn climate change and niceness into social control ala Lenin.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:50am
G152

Watch as to how we’re not subservient enough to go to Condition 2 at the moment
Maybe next week
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May 11, 2020 8:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well it’s not party scene around hereabouts.
  
  Couldn’t all the naughty boys and girls report to the HeadMistress’ Office and sit in detention for the rest of the week?
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:30am
info@cruzpro.com

George Carlin was a comedian. He died in 2008 but had this amazing ability to foretell the future.

You should view this video of George telling us how to handle the current Covid-19 situation.

Warning – foul language…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&feature=emb_title&v=JSbT7JVNEU4
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May 11, 2020 8:13am
- Don Beckett
  
  Yes, very appropriate.
  I posted that video a week or so ago but its certainly worth repeating – every day until this farce is over.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:48am
Wangas Feral

CNN has been so many things to so many people but I think it’s new moniker of China Network News is rather appropriate.
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May 11, 2020 8:14am
Luke Piewalker

Prediction. NZ is going to be very angry at Ardern and her bumbling fools very shortly.

She won’t be able to hold back the tsunami of anger coming from the tide of unemployment and business closures coming her way.

Yes Cindy. You caused this.
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May 11, 2020 8:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is all just a test of socialist control to see how far she can push us until we start making a noise.
  First they came for your guns
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:39am
  - north island kiwi
    
    yes and that was a giant hoax and scam as well
    we are so fucked in this country, the lies have been so thick half the people believe them , the other half don,t
    know what to think, like it or not i think we are in for a
    culling, sadly again it will be the innocent that cop it
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Socialists do not relinquish their control easily. The power is an addiction to the narcissist.
      
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      May 11, 2020 12:35pm
- Simon
  
  “Yes Cindy. You caused this”
  
  Just watch in September as this awful government is voted out how many Labour, including Ardern fuck off overseas as quickly as possible.
  
  Turn their backs on the mess they created in NZ as they head off.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:52am
  - artemisia
    
    Don’t speak too soon. 55%.
    
    5 10
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    May 11, 2020 9:08am
    - Tall Man
      
      Can’t find the “Don’t knows” and the “Won’t says” anywhere.
      
      Maybe they were very high.
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:25am
  - JibberJabber
    
    We can but hope.
    
    4 2
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    May 11, 2020 9:11am
- Inandout
  
  Luke, this is why Winston keeps feeding that rope to her by remaining silent.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    I think there is feeding but it’s not rope and it’s flowing the other way.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:19am
  - rjay
    
    Not all Ministers are from Labour so not all Prime Minsterial memos may be leaked by a Labour person.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:21am
- rouppe
  
  I think you are under estimating the ability of people to see the hand that appears to be feeding them.
  
  You can treat a dog incredibly cruelly. But as long as you feed it every day it will keep coming back.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:25am
2ic

Does anyone share my feeling that all these finicky little lockdown rules are there for nothing more than to give the public the illusion that the government actually knows what it’s doing?

If it could actually be explained by government how buying fruit, vegetables and meat from a supermarket or dairy is ok, but not a greengrocer or butcher, then maybe I could accept it. But I’m not aware that anyone has, because it simply doesn’t make sense.

As if 4 Levels that they keep changing the rules for isn’t enough, it now seems we have to have a staggered implementation of whatever Level 2 rules are going to be announced today (https://tinyurl.com/y9v4kvu3). And Ardern has a communications degree?

And isn’t it comforting to the 1,000 people joining the dole queue every day during the lockdown, that Ardern “always made the decisions on the Monday so they can take effect on a Wednesday”. (https://tinyurl.com/ydcpyxa3) So if we are on Level 4 and the data shows we are ready to go to Level 3 on a Thursday, Ardern will wait until the following Monday to announce it. That’s 4 days – another 4,000 jobs gone. Or is it only 2 days, as we know Ardern doesn’t count weekends and public holidays?
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May 11, 2020 8:23am
- Justitia
  
  I think the point of the finicky little lockdown rules, which may well be unlawful, is to condition New Zealanders to accept unquestioningly any directives from an increasingly dictatorial government no matter how ridiculous they may seem.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:38am
- Rich Prick
  
  On Level 2 you hop on your left leg with your right hand in the air. When Cindy stops the music, you find a chair.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:45am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  They only have to sound authoritative for now…
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Here is my prediction, for what it is worth. We will move to Level 2 on Monday 18 May. Except hospitality venues will need to wait until Monday 1 June.
  
  Let’s hope I am dead wrong 🙂
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:02am
- calendar girl
  
  Great comment, 2ic. You’ve summed up perfectly NZ’s circumstances and lack of competent leadership.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:38am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Also about cash not being acceptable for payment. Under what law is cash now NOT LEGAL TENDER?
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:54am
  - north island kiwi
    
    yes, but the globalists are pushing for cashless so like it or not thats what we will get unless there is a massive push back, which i don,t think will happen to many people
    happy to use the money m/c, eftpos etc, i don,t think most
    people realise how many freedoms we lose going cashless.
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:33am
- Nickc2
  
  She hasn’t said anything about what to expect with Level 1. It sure as hell wont be life as normal as we know it. I’m picking it will be the precursor to life under Marxist rule. She thinks she has the numbers to do it and she certainly has the will and blessing of the media.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:55am
- Ruawai
  
  Not quite sure why we have level 3 for 16 days instead of 14 days, by JA reckoning we should have gone to level 2 tonight as she says we need 14 days at each level. I think JA got confused as the original 4 weeks started on a Wednesday night, but due to Anzac day they extended level 4 by 5 days, so any future changes in level should have been on a Monday night.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:02am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Businesses will be given a couple of days – Level 3, Days 15 and 16 – to get ready for life under Level 2, commencing Thursday 14 (hopefully).
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And have you noticed the way the MSM keep downplaying how long we have been in lockdown… as if it was only 4 weeks in Lockdown 4…
    Instead of factoring in the fact that many individuals and businesses began moving into Lockdown mode around March 21st.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand#March_2020_2
    
    So for many, we are entering our 8th week of Lockdown life.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:47am
Swifty

Neil Diamond

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLgsV_Ms3Q

Hands, washing hands….
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May 11, 2020 8:23am
Fisiani

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Interesting because it’s directed by Mike Moore . An expose of so called green energy as a pointless sham.
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May 11, 2020 8:24am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Yep and Delingpole takes the piss out of the Climate Cultists
  https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/09/delingpole-michael-moore-has-become-a-hero-to-climate-deniers-complains-guardian/
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:57am
mark15

Will NZ trial HCQ or remdesivir?
What covid research is the NZ govt doing?
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May 11, 2020 8:25am
- mikenmildagain
  
  If you search on the RNZ website, there was a very good interview about three weeks ago with a NZ medical researcher about this. In brief, NZ is participating in several clinical trials for a range of treatment.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:35am
  - JackRabbit
    
    But the social experiments outweigh the clinical trials.
    
    It won’t be long before Jacinda suggests that everyone be vaccinated with Bill Gates DNA altering vaccine and have his Borg Identity Chip inserted at birth and retrospectively to all existing humans.
    
    She is already echoing his stance that the world will not return to normal until a universal vaccine is found and everyone is “treated”. Virus per se are parasites at a cellular level. You cannot vaccinate for parasites. You can treat them, but can’t vaccinate against them, any more than you can vaccinate your cat against fleas and worms.
    
    Covid-19 is not the problem. It is the looming global solutions to Covid-19 that are the upcoming problems.
    
    Typical globalist agenda – create a problem then offer your custom solution. No better than computer ransomware.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:28am
    - JackRabbit
      
      With downticks, and no upticks at this point, clearly the forward vision to see what is coming out of this Covid-19 is limited. She’s bad, but not that bad.
      
      Hitler was a bad boy, but not so bad that he would be aided and abetted by large corporations, conduct medical experiments, and put bar codes on people’s forearms. Yeah Right. History tells the oppossite.
      
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      May 11, 2020 11:39am
    - north island kiwi
      
      billy gates fauci et al all evil globalists, there should be mass protests here if cinders dares to even mention compulsory vaccinations
      
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      May 11, 2020 11:43am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Bill Gates should know.
      
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      May 11, 2020 8:08pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Mikey’s quite right, one study is on using HCQ too.
    
    And why not, finding something that ameliorates the symptoms and reduces viral load would be great, and it wouldn’t matter that much what it was (as long as ethically OK !). It would be very helpful for all (except Gilead) if HCQ did work even a bit as it is dirt cheap to manufacti=ure and can be administered orally.
    
    Remdesvir hasn’t had a good set of trials so far despite the press pushing it; and it costs an enormous amount, and is administered by IV.
    
    I’ve always thought that HCQ was an immediate correct choice to trial. It has confirmed in vitro activity against BCV’s as shown during the original SARs epidemic, is cheap, has well documented usage guidelines, and has considerable anecdotal supporting evidence. Doesn’t mean it will work in vivio, but certainly worth testing and in varying ways. For example it might work best as a prophylactic administered very early, or before a patient needs intensive care. One very small study showed little apparent affect on patients in ICU.
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:58am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      On of the problems with treating very sick people (with malaria) with quinine was always the unwanted, potentially lethal, cardiac (side)effects.
      
      Giving it to less sick early on is a very good clinical idea, but so many people with terminal TDS shouted it (that drug’s use) down that few researchers are willing to try in vivo.
      
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      May 11, 2020 12:16pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    You cannot clinically trial a drug if you are not treating patients, mike-o. The best you can do is run lab and animal tests. Which is not gonna contribute much in the present global clusterfuck.
    
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    May 11, 2020 12:13pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      NZ can, and is, participating in clinical trials, so that just makes your statement…um…wrong.
      
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      May 11, 2020 12:47pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  How do we trial it when we have no new patients? HCQ seems to be of no benefit if taken when already very sick, might have some benefit if taken ASAP after infection, but that still needs proving. Remdesivir is pretty weak too. Ensuring you are not Vit-D deficient is a far more significant life saver.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:01am
- rangitoto
  
  There are a bunch of trials under way for HCQ + Zinc and also remdesivir trials. NZ probably doesn’t have enough cases to do any useful trials.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:58am
  - north island kiwi
    
    that true, tell me again why we have shut the whole goddamed country down, how many companys have closed how many jobs have been lost never to return?
    global depression coming up this country will likely never
    recover
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:51am
Justitia

So what will happen to the universities as a result of COVID 19? The pandemic still has a fair way to run but it’s already apparent most are hurting badly from losing the revenue from their profitable foreign student intakes. Meanwhile how many young New Zealanders will want to burden themselves with tens of thousands of dollars of debt when the prospects for the economy are so dire? And how many will want to sign up to online courses at the same price?

Of course, every crisis brings with it an opportunity and now is the perfect time to begin the long overdue overhaul of the bloated university sector in New Zealand . It has become corrupted by its dependence on foreign students to the point where it has trampled on the fundamental values of free speech and free inquiry, which are enshrined in the legislation under which it operates, in order to appease a totalitarian regime in China and equally dictatorial domestic identity politicians and pressure groups.

The absence of foreign students will hopefully give the universities the opportunity to reflect on their role and to rediscover the original reason for their founding, which was to provide a high quality education to New Zealanders to meet this country’s future needs. In the meantime, let the shakeout begin. For a country of five million, we probably only need two or three.
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May 11, 2020 8:26am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The universities should be okay. Most of them have very strong cash reserves. They should also be able to scale back their operations for reduced demand, especially for their high volume/low value offerings that are particularly popular with overseas students.
  The number of NZ universities is not a specific problem. If one were designing a university system from scratch, there might be less, or more, but arbitrarily closing three or four would be pointless
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:39am
  - cmm
    
    “Most of them have very strong cash reserves. ”
    
    Most of them have their hooks deep in our wallets.
    
    Many of us real tax payers (as opposed to tax consumers) are going to have thinner wallets this year.
    
    “The number of NZ universities is not a specific problem.”
    
    For whom? For the people that work in them it is great: more bureaucracy = more job prospects, more advertising and rebranding, etc etc.
    
    For the people getting the services that duplication of bureaucracy is cost with little benefit.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If you go to Auckland Uni as a student , you will get your grades scaled up
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/coronavirus-university-of-auckland-students-to-have-grades-scaled-up-due-to-pandemic.html
  
  So if you manage to get an A grade without any scaling… you’ll be joined by the B grade folk….
  (how fair is that?)
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:43am
  - Ruahine
    
    Socialist ‘kindness’ in action. That student who earned an ‘A’ needs to be punished for exceeding their allotment of equality.
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:47am
  - cmm
    
    I must say I really don’t care if they do this in the liberal arts and basket weaving courses, but it is problematic in other areas.
    
    How fair is that to the patients of doctors who graduated form Auckland Uni when the doctor got nudged through because of CV19?
    
    Will a civil engineer’s bridge keep standing? Does gravity know that this poor engineer studied during CV19 so it should not make these bridges fall down?
    
    It’s just a race to the bottom like nudging people through based on race. In the end everyone loses.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:09am
  - Ruawai
    
    And is this fair to other universities students competing for the same jobs with AU students having artificially higher grades. And if you get an actual A+ at AU employers will maybe assume it was just an A.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:09am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Yep, that’s the approach many health authorities adopt. Died of a heart attack but Covid was detected – automatic upgrade to Covid. Chain smoked a pack a day for 50 years, in aged care with 9 toes in the grave, and you shuffle off – auto upgrade to Covid.
    
    When the CDC reduced the number of Covid cases by 27,000 overnight, it was due to auto Covid upgrades because they had not been tested.
    
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    May 11, 2020 3:51pm
- greybeard
  
  ” It has become corrupted by its dependence on foreign students…..”
  You are so right.
  It is an obsession, the taking of money from these people.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:45am
  - Tall Man
    
    “It is an obsession, the taking of money from these people”
    
    But only to “give” it to the chosen ones.
    
    “They are us”…. yeah right.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:12am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think we need more than two or three. But I would like to see universities like Massey go back to a focus on animals, crops, soils, and vets, rather than feminist studies.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:04am
  - Ian Boag
    
    So Massey should close its technology (engineering) school, business school, sciences, nursing, etc …… ? Not sure what fraction do feminist studies? Perhaps you know?
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:20am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Wasn’t Massey going to close down Sciences at its Albany Campus?
      
      Massey University proposes axing science at Albany, Auckland – 400 students affected
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12311311
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:53am
oldpark

In the last few days there are a lot of claims a certain NZ Politician is a complete “Control Freak” .Is that just another name for a person suffering from a “Narcisstic Personality Disorder”or is it “Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder”.
Maybe after today the Nation of NZ will be able to gauge such a claim by many many observers. Just saying.We all live in hope that no one can fool all of the people all of the time.Not even an alleged “Control Freak”.
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May 11, 2020 8:35am
- cmm
  
  Helen Clark was also a micro-managing control freak.
  
  But she was at least reasonably competent.
  
  That micromanagement squeezed out any talented people in Labour – leaving the empty talent bucket they have now.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Good Grief!!!!…
  
  It’s both of those aberrations
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_freak
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:58am
I remember when

So now that countries are finding covid-19 cases are diminishing everyone has the same problem. How do you loosen procedures with the least possible risk.
No matter how successful the controls have been there are still risks when trying to get back to some normality. The major difference is that the risk of covid-19 is now balanced against the need for freedom to exercise.
It is interesting that all the countries in the UK are allowing increased physical activity.
Is this where the real advantage of the Sweden approach becomes apparent?
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May 11, 2020 8:39am
Suze Wainwright

Nice to hear Shamubeel Eaqub reinforce that the govt should not try and pick winners, on RNZ this morning. Sounded like he actually caught Corin off guard.

Labour *might* actually have to campaign on policy this election rather than rely on glib, cheap and cheesy Cindy platitudes. That would be interesting…
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May 11, 2020 8:46am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Not possible.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:57am
- Ruawai
  
  Corin said it was improtant for the Govt to pick winners and give them money like they have done with the film industry in the past, Eaqub said that didn’t help everyone only the film industry and then Corin came out with a clanger that helping the film industry had helped the NZ people with a feeling of wellbeing having films shot in NZ. The mind boggles.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018745936/coronavirus-will-consumers-get-back-to-businesses-at-alert-level-2
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:15am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    But special help for the film industry is a Kiwiblog favourite. Remember the scorn for the ‘hobbit haters’?
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:50am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    The All Blacks winning used to make the nation feel good.
    
    The future aotearoa will be world famous for exporting French ‘art house’ style movies spoken in fluent te reo and authentic vegan tofu…
    
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    May 11, 2020 11:12am
    - Ed Snack
      
      “Speaking in tofu…” …sounds like some sort of obscure green religious sect.
      
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      May 11, 2020 12:01pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  All they will do is disagree with National’s proposals as per. Not have any of their own.
  
  Are all those advisory ‘groups’ still getting paid?
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:34pm
Maggie Pie

No wonder Auckland is facing water restrictions this week.
Even the $700 thousand dollar man, Watercare CEO Raven Jaduram, describes himself as an optimist ….”who likes to fill his glass to the brim”

Well you need to lead by example boyo!!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11567948
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May 11, 2020 8:48am
- Ruawai
  
  Pretty easy to be optimistic when you have $700000 coming in every year.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:16am
Gravelroad

Earlier this morning I read on Stuff a column by fervent Government groupie Jane Bowron.
Because I didn’t really understand what it was about at the time, I thought I would go back and re-read to see if I could make head or tail of what she was trying to convey.
Seems to have gone – off the front page at least.
It was a very strange column – perhaps compiled with the assistance of mind altering substances?
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May 11, 2020 8:50am
- burt
  
  Mind altering substances, like $50m of gag money?
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:02am
  - chukar
    
    Bit like Muldoons shiver looking for a spine to run up — an idea looking for a mind .
    A real struggle but $$$ changes everything!
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:40am
- greybeard
  
  https://muckrack.com/jane-bowron/articles
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:23am
Simon

Comrades its Budget Week .

Look for as many short term cash hand out policies as possible to help Labo election chances in September. Cash for Africa and nothing for the real economy.

Everything in the budget will be for this one purpose. The Well Being of Labour.
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May 11, 2020 8:56am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Wynston will have his hand out.
  
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  May 11, 2020 8:40pm
burt

I’ve decided I know everything and I’m always right and I can tell people what to do without any legal basis but the best part is anyone who tries to criticise me can just be dismissed. Am I now a kind, transparent awesome leader or a f##king psycho?
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May 11, 2020 8:59am
- emmess
  
  But what if you say does not align with other transparent awesome leaders in other countries or global institutions?
  Something to think about
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:33am
  - burt
    
    Then they are wrong, we can just dismiss what they say.
    
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    May 11, 2020 9:38am
    - emmess
      
      Are they just wrong in NZ or correct in their countries?
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:52am
      - burt
        
        You’re not getting thos are you, I’m right and that’s proven by the fact I’m popular and any criticism can just be dismissed. It’s people like you who want to see thousands die that are the problem.
        
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        May 11, 2020 9:58am
      - emmess
        
        Yes, boss
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:27am
JibberJabber

Jacindas ~~Barack Obama’s~~ political genius is ~~his~~ her ability to say things that will sound good to people who have not followed the issues in any detail — regardless of how obviously fraudulent what She hesays may be to those who have.
…T Sowell.
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May 11, 2020 9:03am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Is this the same Thomas Sowell who claimed that Obama’s nuclear deal could see the US surrendering to Iran?
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:54am
Yvette

Opinion: I have fibromyalgia. This is why I need cannabis to be legalised
– cannabis referendum, Newshub

The writer has fibromyalgia, so chronic pain and fatigue, and finds the only medication recommended again and again by studies is CBD, the non-psychoactive component of cannabis, but also finds consultation to be expensive ($275) and the 25ml CBD medication then costs $250 to $325.

The writer’s GP, Dr Gulbransen, however believes that medication would be more effective if a small amount of THC is included in the medicine.

That THC reference is the only connection to the up-coming referendum, which is for recreational cannabis.
Medicinal cannabis is already dealt with. It’s outrageous expense is a medical cannabis problem and should be the concern of health authorities, not an extraneous reason to legalise recreational cannabis, hoping for some cross cost interplay – there shouldn’t be one.
If there is a sufficient medical market for largely CBD cannabis it will be grown and prices should drop or be subsidised.

It has little to do with recreational cannabis, which is the subject of the referendum.
Newshub is doing no one a service to confuse the issue.
The referendum is about recreational use of cannabis and that is largely THC yielding plants not those cultivated for CBD, the pain relieving agent in medicinal use.

Newshub classifies this opinion piece as “trending”. Really? – popular movement, or drift?
Perhaps more: leaning; bias, or bent.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/opinion-i-have-fibromyalgia-this-is-why-i-need-cannabis-to-be-legalised.html
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May 11, 2020 9:04am
- burt
  
  You don’t need cannabis, you need to be denied expensive drugs by pharmac. That’s how we roll in one size fits all NZ.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:27am
  - Ruahine
    
    Is not cannabis the new wonder drug cures everything.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:00am
    - burt
      
      Which, if you’ve been following along, explains why you can’t have it!
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:50am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Like Jacinda? I won’t be voting for either.
      
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      May 11, 2020 8:43pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Fibromyalgia is a distressing condition but CBD is comparatively unknown and there are other freely available essential oils, much cheaper,that help greatly. It runs in my family.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:07am
  - burt
    
    I think you’ll find CBD is as cheap as tomato paste when you’re not paying risk rent to get it.
    
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    May 11, 2020 1:23pm
emmess

I had a thought, yesterday.
NZ is forecast to one of the largest falls in GDP of any economy this year, excluding Venezuela and some European countries.

Two points
European countries have lower population growth than us, so that is not taking into account GDP per Capita.
And more importantly, their economic hit would have coincided with the spread of the virus throughout the population, unless you believe an amazing vaccine is on the way, our is yet to come.
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May 11, 2020 9:31am
- burt
  
  Comrade, you appear to be questioning the wisdom of total lockdown waiting for a vaccine, have you cleared this message with your party leader.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:36am
  - Ruawai
    
    ON RNZ with Jim Mora on Sunday morning a leading vaccine scientist Dr. Wayne Koff president and CEO of the Human Vaccines Project, said the quickest a vaccine has ever been created is 4 years for the mumps and that having all the world concentrate on a vaccine for CV19 means vaccines for other diseases will be delayed.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:23am
    - burt
      
      He can be dismissed, our leader is popular and his sort of negativity will not be tolerated.
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:52am
    - emmess
      
      But a wealthy Software Developer said it can be done in 12-18 months.
      
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      May 11, 2020 10:52am
      - burt
        
        Then we’ll only need to be in level 3 & 4 for 12-18 months comrade. Any business that can’t survive that is obviously poorly managed and the owners of that business deserve poverdy.
        
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        May 11, 2020 11:49am
      - Ed Snack
        
        We already have 3-4 vaccine candidates in level 2 testing, plus another 10-20 in level 1 or thereabouts. A couple are even progressing to level 3 which is larger sample and testing for efficacy. Level’s 1&2 are mostly safety related I believe.
        
        A vaccine by July/August is possible – not inevitable, but certainly possible.
        
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        May 11, 2020 12:05pm
      - burt
        
        Ed Snack
        
        So we just take all of them and hope one of them works and then stay in lock down until we know the answer – is that how this play out?
        
        I know It’s not advisable to question the logic of a government that thinks it has no need to explain itself, but I’m doing that and I’d like to know how when we’ve never had a vaccine work for any corona virus why we all suddenly think it’s going to happen and we should stay locked down while we wait?
        
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        May 11, 2020 1:15pm
Don Beckett

A report from America comparing Sweden’s approach and New York.
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/05/new-video-two-types-of-people-in-this-world/
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May 11, 2020 9:32am
The Proper Ghandi

Coming to a public space near you:

https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1259124716528435202
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May 11, 2020 9:40am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Is there a new virus in Wuhan? If so, that will be Cindy’s excuse to stay at L3
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May 11, 2020 9:47am
- burt
  
  I guess we’ll stay locked down till March 14 2021 when we all get let out for 48 hours to adorn symbols of female subjugation to show how kind we all are.
  
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  May 11, 2020 9:49am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Don’t jest.
    
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    May 11, 2020 8:47pm
Jack5

Where would NZ stand in a war between China and the United States?

Chinese nationalists are calling for an invasion of Taiwan while, they claim, America’s four big aircraft-carriers in the Pacific are crippled by Covid-19 in their crews.

Meanwhile, anti-Chinese feeling is stirring again in Indonesia.

An interesting situation for our Beijing-friendly National Party.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3083696/china-tries-calm-nationalist-fever-calls-invasion-taiwan-grow

Hostility to Chinese surges in Indonesia:

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3083732/indonesia-condemns-inhuman-treatment-its-fishermen-chinese
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May 11, 2020 9:53am
- Komata
  
  Jack5@0953
  
  Re: ‘An interesting situation for our Beijing-friendly National Party’.
  
  An interesting statement considering that the NZLP / SLG is in very close communication with (as in ‘in thrall to’) Beijing, or is it (once again) different when the ‘Left’ do such things?
  
  (Just asking)
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:03am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    The problem is, both Labour and National are too close to the Chinese. That’s what you do if you want to influence a foreign country: buy both sides. The Nats had better start taking a bloody close look at some of their relationships. The time is fast approaching when some decisions will have to be made about where their loyalties lie.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:14am
  - Jack5
    
    Komata, we expect the Left to be close to the People’s Republic of China with its Communist regime.
    
    National has stepped out of its traditional position:
    
    – Bringing into Parliament as a list MP Jian Yang, a former employee of China’s military intelligence system.
    
    – Former National Party leaders, and one a former Prime Minister – Brash and Shipley – accepting positions on the NZ boards of Chinese banks.
    
    – Maurice Williamson, when a National MP, intervening with the police on behalf of a Chinese donor to the National Party.
    
    – Accepting $150,0o0 at the last election from the “Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry”, representing a huge buyer of NZ bloodstock punting on the possibility of China re-legalising horse racing with betting.
    
    National isn’t alone in ties with China, but National is supposed to be the market of free enterprise, of free Western standards.
    
    Here, from two years ago, is US concern about China influence in NZ politics:
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/chinese-communist-party-link-claimed
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:50am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      New Zealand’s major political parties are very bipartisan on most matters. Especially on the important issues, such as getting as much money as possible from the Chinese dictatorship.
      
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      May 11, 2020 11:32am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Lol
        
        3 2
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        May 11, 2020 1:25pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  The States, even though they have deteriorated in many aspects socially and economically, would still obliterate the Chinese militarily. Thankfully, Trump has reinstated deterrence post the wet noodle named Obama.
  
  We have nothing in common with the Chinese, and have close historical ties to the Americans. It’s a no-brainer really.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:06am
  - north island kiwi
    
    problem is it won,t be just chiner if the US attacks chiner
    the mutual defense treaty they have with russia will kick
    in, Iran and possibly one or two others as well will join in
    these countries are sick of all the destruction the global bully has caused around the world and if the yanks are
    stupid enough to start this these countries will completely
    destroy the US
    
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    May 11, 2020 12:30pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      I’d take you more seriously if you knew how to spell China.
      
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      May 11, 2020 1:53pm
      - Jack5
        
        “N.I. Kiwi” should note that Indian troops were scrapping with soldiers from “Chiner” on the India-China border less than a week ago.
        
        When he talks of Iran siding with China he might consider Iranian Muslims’ sympathies with the persecuted minority of China’s Turkic Muslims, the Uighurs, and with its bigger Muslim minority, mainly Han Chinese, the Hui.
        
        Would Russia go to war as an ally of China? That’s not clear. Russians think Chinese eyes are on Siberia. Remember it was the Red Army which stopped China from taking over Mongolia in the 1920s.
        
        Also, Russia is not the military power it was during the Cold War. On the south Russia has the hostile state of Ukraine, and in the West it faces Nato, which includes some countries that were Russa’s allies 50 years ago.
        
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        May 11, 2020 10:30pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  It’s a no brainer. As we now know that the fascist “Chinese Communist Party” facilitated in the spread of an incredibly contagious virus around the world. That it has around a million innocent Muslim Uighers in “re-education” camps. Severely oppresses Falun Gong, Christian and Muslim worshippers. Organ harvesting of political prisoners. Continues its brutal occupation and ethnic cleansing of Tibet and Xinjiang. Threatens the existence of the democratic nation of Taiwan with invasion, and also the democratic governance of Hong Kong. We could go on and on…
  
  All civilised countries across the globe are now looking to effectively give China the pariah status that it absolutely deserves.
  
  Even though New Zealand’s human rights and democratic values have decreased somewhat over the past few years, we still have MUCH more in common with our official ANZUS and Five Eyes allies the US. Further more it’s in our interest to keep China out of New Zealand and Australia’s sphere of influence.
  
  First thing New Zealand absolutely needs to do is demand reparations from China. Boycott Chinese goods. And scrap our shameful New Zealand–China Free Trade Agreement.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand%E2%80%93China_Free_Trade_Agreement
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:43am
  - north island kiwi
    
    the virus was engineered at fort detrick USA and smuggled into chiner , the wuhan lab was funded $7.4mil
    by the us govt, this virus has been another attempt to
    take down president trumper, aka just another false flag.
    
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    May 11, 2020 12:37pm
I remember when

US CDC “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework”.
Researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and local officials as they begin to re-open.
It contained detailed “decision trees” or flow charts to help local leaders navigate the difficult decision of whether to re-open or remain closed.
Unfortunately it was buried by the US Administration so details not revealed.
However, it would seem to be the sort of leadership that governments should be providing.
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May 11, 2020 9:54am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “US CDC “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework”.
  Easy
  since 75% of all deaths in the USA are in Democrat states…..vote Republican.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:01am
Raphael

I see NZME has valued Stuff at $1 in their bid to get the government to let them buy it..

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12330932
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May 11, 2020 10:07am
- WaveyDavey
  
  LOL precisely the figure I put on it yesterday.
  
  I wonder how I knew 😉
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:12am
- cmm
  
  Can I buy stuff for $1 and shut then down?
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:12am
  - rangitoto
    
    Yeah but you would have to repay their debt.
    
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    May 11, 2020 10:15am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ve just located a 10C coin down the back of my sofa in case you are interested in a joint ownership model.
    
    I would be a sleeping partner, of course.
    
    5 1
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    May 11, 2020 11:39am
- Inandout
  
  So Jacinda’s $50 million spray will go to one company, rather than two; less $1 of course.
  
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  May 11, 2020 10:33am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  A bit rich for my blood.
  
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  May 11, 2020 12:01pm
rangitoto

In most places men appear to be more susceptible than women to the Wuhan Lab flu unless you live in Quebec.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/coronavirus-women-canada-quebec-hit-harder-men-200510170309552.html
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May 11, 2020 10:14am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Not so in NZ:
  55% Women
  44% Men
  <1% Unspecified!
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases#gender<
  
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  May 11, 2020 11:18am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Men are about 1.7x more likely to die if infected. Put another way: risk to men is about the same as for a woman 5-7 years older.
    
    Number of women vs men who were infected in NZ is a different issue, and possibly reflects greater number of women in hospitals, rest homes, and customer-contacting jobs.
    
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    May 11, 2020 12:00pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Unspecified!
    Can’t they just have gander at their tackle or lack of it and make a call on it.
    But I guess they have a 20 page dossier on how to decide if you are unspecified?
    Maybe we all should become unspecified, that would really throw a spanner in the works.
    
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    May 11, 2020 1:14pm
- kowtow
  
  Quebeckers are a funny bunch.
  
  In WW2 the Froggies weren’t keen on fighting Hitler ( they didn’t see it as their war) so the Canadian govt had to promise not to send any soldiers overseas unless they volunteered to ,to appease them . Caused problems for the Canadian army in NW Europe in 44 /45 as they weren’t getting the replacements they needed.
  
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  May 11, 2020 12:43pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Australians refused to implement conscription in WWI.
    
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    May 11, 2020 1:51pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      True enough, two referendums (1916 & 1917) and both were narrowly defeated. By late 1918 the Australians with a nominal 5 divisions in being could barely fields two effectively. And because of the lack of reinforcements the Australians basically withdrew from combat operations inflate September early October – the remaining men were worn out.
      
      Part of that was because the Australians insisted on maximising their front line nominal strength, as noted fielding 5 divisions. But they struggled to keep these divisions at anywhere close to a reasonable strength.
      
      By contrast NZ fielded a single division and refused the opportunity to form a second one in France. But we did maintain the flow of reinforcements so that in 1918 the NZ division was consistently one of the strongest and most capable divisions in the British army, frequently having almost twice the effective manpower as the standard British and Australian divisions. The Canadians too tended to maintain the individual divisions better, it not to NZ standards.
      
      Upshot was though that as a % of men deployed and as a % of population, NZ suffered heavier casualties than Australia or Canada.
      
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      May 11, 2020 7:31pm
kloyd0306

The CoL of failed parties Power Trip continues.
Not only have we been held to ransom for seven weeks, now, Robertson and his pathetic cronies want us on tenterhooks until Budget night.

Their own incompetence saw details of last year’s budget leaked and published, as if that were just the worst thing anyone could do. So, this year, great secrecy surrounds the 2020 version.

When will these numpties figure out that the budget is all about revenues and spending, none of which is possible without taxpayers (i.e. voters who put this untalented bunch of wallys in charge).

Remember, the government creates NOTHING. They only spend or pass laws that hinder us.
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May 11, 2020 10:29am
MH

Rumours are rife that the source of virus infestation at the whitehouse has been tracked to the nuclear code carrying case. To prevent transmission of Cul-vert 19 Trump has ordered the case to be opened daily so he can wipe the keys clean with bleach. The odds of correct launch codes during this domestic clean are apparently quite high but on the positive side its just another way of bringing a good dose of light in to kill the disease.
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May 11, 2020 10:34am
KevO'Brien

Where next?
https://newspunch.com/bill-gates-bankrolls-1-billion-plan-blanket-earth-video-surveillance-satellites/
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May 11, 2020 10:37am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Billy Boy is starting to look like a very untrustworthy individual. has for awhile, just getting alot more obvious he has many agenda’s to invest the fortune he has aquired. Unfortunately, the results maybe to his liking and not for the normal person.
  
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  May 11, 2020 1:19pm
- north island kiwi
  
  yep this fucking evil globalists wants to watch your
  every move
  
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  May 11, 2020 1:29pm
Benedict Yu

This is really interesting. It is a “stringency index” which shows the level of stringency of lock down measures across countries and across time.

New Zealand has for most of the last two months had the most stringent lock down of those countries surveyed. However we were (very late) to the party. In February and early March most countries were doing much more than New Zealand. The “go early go hard claim” is demonstrably false. New Zealand went “do very little and then go hard later than the rest of the world”.

It also shows that Australia had the third LEAST restrictive restrictions of the countries surveyed !!! With better outcomes than New Zealand.

Aint data grand 🙂

HAT TIP: Croaking Casandra

https://croakingcassandra.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/stringency-index.png
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May 11, 2020 10:42am
all true

As long we have so many brainwashed people then we need live for another few years with these communistics clowns or politicians. But the worst lot are in actual fact all these half-baked experts from the various universities being on a healthy salary and creating all day long just floored documents based on BS information and the politicians use this well for their own political ideologies and for their steroid-oversized ego and power fix.
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May 11, 2020 11:01am
I remember when

Cinders gags her ministers.
It would seem that the covid-19 pandemic could not have occurred at a worse time in the electoral cycle. Just when all the attention should be on getting NZ back to economic performance the need to avoid political damage is foremost.
How the virus details are presented to the public is influenced by the need to present it in the most favourable light possible.
The endless repeating of “we went hard and early”, etc., so that people believe it is indisputable and does need to be argued. In fact, arguing against “we went hard and early” shows the opposition was prepared to accept the most dire consequences.
There would seem to be the possibility that even the length of levels of lockdown are made with the upcoming election to the forefront.
Would it be the same if we had two years before the next election?
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May 11, 2020 11:22am
- burt
  
  Attn Mods.
  
  This message was not cleared with the party leader and it must be deleted.
  
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  May 11, 2020 11:51am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No uptick, or downtick burt. Bad attempt at humour. Don’t give up your day job
    
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    May 11, 2020 3:13pm
I remember when

Coronavirus Weekly Deaths Worldometer:
Mar 28- Apr 4 33,833
Apr 5-11 44,083
” 12-18 51,268
” 19-25 43,117
” 26-May 2 41,500
May 3-9 35,560
A more reasonable indication of what is happening?
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May 11, 2020 11:40am
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/05/10/cotton-publicly-available-cell-phone-data-suggests-roads-around-wuhan-lab-were-closed-in-mid-october/
Wuhan roads closed in mid-October.
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May 11, 2020 11:45am
- emmess
  
  Why are people down voting this?
  Are they not interested in finding out the truth?
  
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  May 11, 2020 4:16pm
curry4me

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/63333978/the-star-may-07-2020
Executive pay. Who has taken a cut, and who hasn’t yet, or won’t.
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May 11, 2020 11:46am
Libertarians are right

So IRD have released the new UOMI rates.
7% when you owe them (was 8.35%)
0% when they owe you (was 0.81%)

The big issue here of course is that the IRD are currently very error prone and are stealing legitimate refunds and offsetting them against future (not yet due) tax etc. The low interest rate was already unfair due to this but now they’re going to be taking your money illegally, taking their time to return it, then not even pretending to reimburse you for the inconvenience of their actions.
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May 11, 2020 11:46am
- RW Capitalist
  
  you forgot something.
  Penalty amounts
  
  1% penalty on the day after payment due date.
  4% penalty for remaining tax including penalties on 7th day after payment due date.
  1% penalty every month the remaining tax including penalties is unpaid.
  Interest is chargeable after and as an addition to the penalties.
  so if you owe $1000
  they add $10 after 1 day
  then $40 after 7 days
  then after 1 month a further $10 penalties.
  so after one month you owe $1060 plus 1.58% monthly interest an penalties (7% PA)
  So actual rate is closer to 20%PA
  
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  May 11, 2020 2:48pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    They got rid of the monthly additional 1% so it’s just 1% plus 4%. Penalties are easy enough to get around as long as you actually talk to the IRD and come to arrangements etc. Interest is (almost) always charged.
    
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    May 11, 2020 3:55pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      I cut and pasted it from the IRD web site.
      
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      May 11, 2020 4:55pm
kwkiwigirl

I had subscribed to the NZ Herald last year, mainly to read the business articles behind the paywall. It was $2.50 per week for the first 8 weeks. Then went up to $5 per week. Since the lockdown I’ve got sick and tired of Ardern being the lead story every day of the week. Basically government propaganda machine.

I rang to cancel the NZH subscription because of this one sided coverage. (BTW you can’t cancel online, you have to ring them, even though they state in the sign up email that you can cancel via a link.) They then offered me the introductory rate again for 8 weeks to stay. I did give them feedback that their political coverage is far too one sided and I couldn’t stand seeing Ardern every single day.

BTW is Hooten left leaning now, or something? I can’t tell from his latest pieces. Is he supposed to be the right leaning side of this blunt instrument of a rag?? Only seems to be Derek Cheng and Fran O’Sullivan, vaguely representing the right on NZH.

Also just to let you know since I had a chance during the lockdown, to look around at other news site offerings and found Financial Times and SMHerald quite good, along with interest.co.nz, businessdesk.co.nz and NBR. Also nopunchespulled has been a laugh and worth a visit, along with kiwiblog which I spend far too much time on now. With Financial Times the commenters at least have a brain.

Stuff and NZME seem to have descended into the lowest common denominator and tell you to go and comment with all the other bottom feeders on their facebook page.
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May 11, 2020 11:57am
- sooty
  
  Didn’t Hooten hid the ginger toy boy of Annette King up in Upper Hutt?
  
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  May 11, 2020 5:35pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’re thinking of Hipkins.
    
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    May 11, 2020 5:51pm
    - sam green
      
      I imagine Hooten would have had more reason
      
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      May 11, 2020 11:39pm
oldfella

A US take on whether endless lockdowns are malice or stupity.With our lot, maybe more of the latter, however…
https://pjmedia.com/columns/david-solway-2/2020/05/10/are-endless-lockdowns-the-result-of-malice-or-stupidity-n389548
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May 11, 2020 12:16pm
Swifty

Achtung! Panzer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRGQJL0Amqs
3 1
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May 11, 2020 12:42pm
Swifty

The Ventures – Wipeout live in Japan 1966

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bKG0p6Tv9Q
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May 11, 2020 12:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Instead of practicing ‘social distancing’ maybe practicing ‘socialist distancing’ would be better
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May 11, 2020 12:54pm
Chuck Bird

I see they are not releasing the latest figures till 4 pm. I heard on Sean Plunket that active cases are down to 92 0r 93.

I hope when we are at level 2 we will not have to hear Ardern politicking every day.
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May 11, 2020 1:08pm
- burt
  
  I’m just going to dismiss your comment.
  
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  May 11, 2020 1:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The figures for today are on the Min of Health website:
  https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/3-new-cases-covid-19-3
  
  RNZ news at 1pm gave the basics.
  
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  May 11, 2020 1:27pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There must be a reason for the downtick,,, but for some odd reason, I can’t think of a simple logical reason for why that post garnered a downtick.
    
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    May 11, 2020 2:38pm
    - burt
      
      You mentioned The ministry of health, that deserves a down tick because those crazy buggers had a different opinion to dear leader on what Level 4 meant for small business. They need to be dismissed for not having the same opinions as Jacinda’s phone-a-friend advice from the UK.
      
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      May 11, 2020 3:03pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Duncan Garnered?
      
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      May 11, 2020 9:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Andrew Geddis’ latest musings on the Legality of the Lockdowns

https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/the-lockdown-and-the-law-where-are-we-now
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May 11, 2020 1:25pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Good read. But I said the other day that he is up himself. This gives me no reason to alter that opinion. Andrew, Parker only cited you because you agree with his line. Don’t congratulate yourself unnecessarily.
  
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  May 11, 2020 2:08pm
Fletch

Timely animated short video (around 7 mins without the credits) based on a 1957 graphic novel. “Nevada” means ‘snowfall’ in Spanish.

https://vimeo.com/411485636
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May 11, 2020 3:00pm
gump

Name suppression has been lifted for the High Court action that was taken against the NZ Government alleging unlawful detention. Which means that it can be revealed that Dermot “Lauda Finem” Nottingham and Robert McKinney were the two men behind the action.

What makes the case particularly amusing is that Mr Nottingham
was serving a sentence of home detention when he launched his High Court action. Meaning that he was already detained.

What makes the case even more amusing is that Mr Nottingham has been criminal convictions for breaching name suppression on his blog, but asked the Court for his own name to be suppressed when taking this action.

Here is a copy of Court judgment for the curious:

https://courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/cases/Nottingham-v-Ardern-PCCivil.pdf
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May 11, 2020 3:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Get ready. CYA (covering your arse) starts in 18 minutes.
First will be play school TV1 nonsense and then we will get 8 minutes of how you will be controlled.
Hint : $50M
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May 11, 2020 3:43pm
MH

SKYTOWER doing it hard…..maybe they should convert to a laundry business?
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May 11, 2020 5:01pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121476605/no-eta-on-westpac-payments-systems-fix

In other words, some 12-year-old IT dickhead has implemented some new software which has never been tested.
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May 11, 2020 5:43pm
- chaos
  
  Welcome to technology, there will always be times that it will have issues and wil be fixed as quick as they can. All 12 years are smart enough to understand this, it is people like yourself who get angry and make dickhead comments rather than understand it happens and those fixing it are working to correct it. Don’t worry you can go get your booze and kfc soon, but maybe a gym membership would be better
  
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  May 11, 2020 7:40pm
  - greybeard
    
    I speak with some authority on matters to do with IT.
    I began my IT career in 1971 and finished it in 2010, going through the gamut of jobs from programming to corporate management.
    One thing I did learn, Mr. Chaos, was that no matter how new and advanced the technology there are always people who make mistakes or cut corners.
    Oh yes, your final sentence was unworthy and unjustified.
    
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    May 12, 2020 7:09pm
Jack5

Taiwan, which is invisible to the NZ media, is lifting industrial investment as companies move production back from Mainland China.

By Friday, 471 Taiwan-based companies had pledged to invest the equivalent of $NZ54.2 billion on facilities for the expansion, reports the Taipeh Times.

The country’s leading spenders on R&D, the electronic components and the computer and optoelectronics industries, last year lifted their research spending 7.9 per cent to $NZ14.6 billion and $NZ6.8 billion respectively.

Sunday marked Taiwan’s 27th day with no new domestic cases of Covid-19. The Government has received more than 500 proposals for a Covid-19 research fund it has set up. The proposals include killing the virus with microwaves and devices to filter it from the air.

Sorry to hammer Taiwan and Covid-19, but the Western media generally shuts it out of reports and pandemic comparisons.
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May 11, 2020 9:01pm
sam green

Jeez – why aren’t we talking about the suicide stats? Just released by vickithesaneone.
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May 11, 2020 11:34pm

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