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April 23, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 April 2020

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PhilBest

People with the necessary curiosity are aware of the emerging findings from antibodies tests for COVID-19 that show far wider spread of infections, due to the role of asymptomatic infection.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/health/coronavirus-antibodies-california.html
“…If accurate, that would mean that 220,000 to 442,000 residents had been exposed. By comparison, only 8,000 cases had been confirmed in the county by early April…” (Los Angeles County)

Now we have this, which is, as the headline says, a “Bombshell”:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/bombshell-autopsy-reveals-covid-19-hit-california-in-early-february-not-march
Testing cadavers that have been on ice for some reason since January, in California, it has been discovered that someone who died back then, had COVID-19!
That means arrival of the virus in CA at least one month earlier than all the official assumptions.
Kiwibloggers will remember that I have been asking repeatedly; why would any country with a gateway that has airliners full of people from China arriving every normal week, assume their “first infection” to have been in late February or early March? Then given the high rate of asymptomatic infection, thousands of people have had it by the time the first person actually is identified as dying of it.
On point after point – this is just one of them – the official “experts” have demonstrated such a deficit of logic, that the very hiring policies for these people must be based on testing job applicants for logic and hiring the people who show the least. Or perhaps it goes automatically with hiring people on the basis of the correct politics; the ones with the correct politics for “Public” service these days will by default, lack logic skills.
NZ’s frontman “experts” are still, as at a couple of days ago, airily dismissing the tsunami of findings worldwide on asymptomatic infections and doing a lot of hand-waving about NZ being different on this. So we don’t need to bother to actually find out, of course. No resources will be allocated to actually finding out. The media sycophants will never demand it or ask the right questions at the regular Dear Leader Worship sessions.
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April 23, 2020 8:00am
- MT_Tinman
  
  If accurate, that would mean that 220,000 to 442,000 residents had been exposed.
  
  A while back I did a quick, completely unscientific, calculation based on my own experience driving tourists off just one boat (the Ruby Princess).
  
  I figured about a quarter mil. exposed, including other tourists, in Canterbury alone between March 13 and the lock-down if just one person on each bus/van leaving Akaroa had been exposed.
  
  Strangely I have not seen a single report of a confirmed case in Canterbury from this exposure.
  
  This suggests to me not just the asymptomatic theory but that many are actually resistant to the virus and never actually contract it despite exposure.
  
  Thanks to the virus panic NZ has already lost 20% of it’s income and that 20% won’t come back until well after the border reopens.
  
  The totally unnecessary house arrest is putting further businesses, outside of that 20%, out of business in what can now only described as a communist ploy to create dependency on the dictatorship and, eventually, a formal communist dictatorship.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:29am
  - PhilBest
    
    Tinman, you’re onto it. I agree that NZ might just have another factor in its favour; survival of the virus itself may be low because of our ambient humidity. And our famously high UV levels, which kills viruses.
    
    So besides the asymptomatic infection thing which is relevant everywhere, rates of transmission almost certainly vary from region to region depending on environment, and NZ is probably the world’s luckiest country on this. The average indoor environment matters too, which in turn depends on the outdoor one, and NZ is fortunate in that it is very easy to keep our internal environments to around 50 percent humidity. I bet the clusters of transmission all relate to HEVAC conditions when people were congregating to socialise.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:50am
    - Evadne
      
      We are in summer. It is predominately a winter illness, and becomes more virulent then.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:37am
      - PhilBest
        
        And the winter aspect has a lot to do with what happens to indoor environments during winter. Windows are shut, air stagnates, more people are in the same indoors space for longer, wet clothes bring moisture in from outside, condensation builds up, etc etc.
        
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        April 23, 2020 1:10pm
    - chukar
      
      Really interested in your UV comment.This year some have suspected levels have been higher than normal.I don’t know if there is any truth in that but pastures and some mature forests are certainly showing damage.
      Drought, UV levels or both?
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:00am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “That means arrival of the virus in CA at least one month earlier than all the official assumptions.”
    
    I would put it back to at least December for both the US and Iran.
    
    As I have posted before, several people I know or know of through those same people, believe they had Covid-19 late last year. All had been in the US in December, or had boarders who came back from Iran. In this last case some people connected also fell ill. In the US case, it was a family wedding and the entire wedding party fell ill, with a really bad flu. In all cases symptoms matched Covid-19.
    
    In another case, again it was the US connection. The person who relayed this one to me, said they had heard reports of other people connected to the US had also got sick.
    
    This was in December 2019. Not January, February or March. Covid-19 was not in the news, so getting a test for it was not possible.
    
    The first NZ death was on the West Coast, with pre-existing heath issues. Curiously, she had not been in contact with anyone this year, so it was a mystery how she got it. To make matters worse, her husband had died in August of a really bad virus.
    
    I think we have to assume that somewhere in the latter part of 2019 is when it reached NZ.
    
    Only antibody testing is relevant.
    
    Is the Corona Virus scaremongerimng a Trojan Horse?
    
    https://www.iwnsvg.com/2020/04/18/covid-19-scapegoat-or-trojan-horse/
    
    https://uxplanet.org/covid-19-a-system-trojan-horse-for-re-designing-lives-6d93d021fa92
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:24am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      This article about Golriz Gharaman is interesting as she tell us her father began preparing for lockdown in Mid February… based on information from international news and overseas contacts.
      I wonder how much news he was receiving from folks back in Iran.
      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/22/1133355/in-lockdown-with-golriz-ghahraman
      
      (hasn’t she got a fabulous grumpy cat…?)
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:02am
    - Ruawai
      
      Wonder if Elton John had CV19?
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:14am
      - trout
        
        That did occur to me. Elton was diagnosed as having ‘walking pneumonia’.
        ‘Walking pneumonia is often caused by bacteria or viruses. Most commonly a bacteria called mycoplasma pneumoniae is responsible for the infection. The infection is often caused by inhaling airborne droplets of water that are contaminated with the bacteria or virus when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These bacteria and viruses then infect your nose, throat, windpipe and lungs.’ Sound familiar?
        
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        April 23, 2020 12:19pm
      - Batman
        
        It also sounds like regular influenza
        
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        April 23, 2020 12:44pm
BobbyS

if this isn’t a blatant attempt to perverse the narrative then what is?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12326776

The PTPM’s old Headmaster says the Govt’s decision with schools to return & kids don’t pass on the virus, was rejected
So the Hearld runs the article with a Picture of the PTPM hugging the said Headmaster
That is a deliberate attempt to influence the reader and play down the comments IMHO
When will ANY JOURNALIST / MSM in NZ actually start to do their job and STOP supporting this Govt’s agenda?
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April 23, 2020 8:05am
- cmm
  
  Let’s face it, the only credibility this headmaster from some obscure school has is that Mz Ardern went to that school.
  
  If it wasn’t for that he’d just be treated as another old codger raving in the storm.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:13am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    Imagine putting up with that for four years.
    
    You’d be completely round the twist as he so obviously is.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:31am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  “So the Hearld runs the article with a Picture of the PTPM hugging the said Headmaster
  That is a deliberate attempt to influence the reader…”
  
  I see this tactic everywhere. This is how propaganda works, and they do it constantly. For instance, look at nearly any photo of Trump in a “news” article – pointing, grimacing, squinting, holding up his chin in a “arrogant” pose etc. Then look at older photos of, say, Obama – smiling, waving, generally looking like the candidate out of central casting.
  
  The point is to establish a particular tone, reader perception and psychological predisposition in order that they believe the editorialising thereunder is somehow factual.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    And the blogosphere sometimes attempts to balance this – look at any image of Helen Clark on the old WOBH for example. Hilarious! I sent one to an American site once that was publishing unflattering photos of Democrat politicians and the response was “OMG!!! We’ll publish that at the top if we ever do an international lefty politicians photo essay”.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:53am
  - kevn
    
    @The PG… Exactly. Look at the current MSM images of Bridges. The most unflattering possible.
    The begging bowl media are just so transparent.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:06am
  - kowtow
    
    Alan Kurdi.
    
    [Mod.] https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjYsLy3gf3oAhX14jgGHSOUCJIQFjAAegQIBBAB&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi&usg=AOvVaw0LyvWC3c5RMbLZXCZLfKCn
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:44am
  - The Boss
    
    The narrative must be fed all the time
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:16am
  - Lee C
    
    “The point is to establish a particular tone, reader perception and psychological predisposition in order that they believe the editorialising thereunder is somehow factual.”
    Yes – it’s been fascinating watching the beatification of Ardern in this way..
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:43am
  - [moderated]
    
    Yep, a pictures speaks a thousand words and sometimes more about the person who took it.
    
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    April 23, 2020 2:16pm
- nickle
  
  Why does she get away with hugging everyone? It’s freakin creepy. It’s even creepier as her hugs seem to be all enveloping, arms completely around your back…. ugh. Why is this not unwanted touching #metoo
  
  At least she could use her hugging charms on Muslim women, imagine any male leader trying that and then getting praised eternally for their compassion, kindness, loveliness…
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:09am
JibberJabber

Hey Deborah, Thomas Sowells’ got your number,

Of all ignorance, the ignorance of the educated is the most dangerous. Not only are educated people likely to have more influence, they are the last people to suspect that they don’t know what they are talking about when they go outside their narrow fields.
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April 23, 2020 8:05am
- Simon
  
  The [Deleted – Mod] Robertson said recently increasing the minimum wage would create demand in the economy.
  
  Nothing Debbs says comes close to this. Though “Robertson “ was able to shot her down.
  
  Looks like a plant.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:15am
  - Swifty
    
    “Robertson said recently increasing the minimum wage would create demand in the economy….”
    
    It doesn’t.
    
    Like R and Martin Williams who have also parroted this line, Robertson is either lying or dumb.
    
    Which is it?
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:54am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Both.
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:19am
- John Warren
  
  Deborah Russell gave us a great example of that just the other day.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:02am
- Durden
  
  The acronym IYI — intelligent yet idiot is used often.
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:16am
  - curry4me
    
    Durden: The American version I saw in the Ntional Review a while ago was, half smart academic.
    
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    April 23, 2020 7:16pm
Greg Ettridge

Can someone tell me how probable cases can still be probable after 23 days, currently 338 probables dating back to April 1.
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April 23, 2020 8:07am
- Jules99
  
  I think probably means they had symptoms but weren’t tested. Therefore they will be probable until we get antibody tests, which I haven’t heard anything about.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:11am
  - Max Howler
    
    “A probable case is one without a positive laboratory result, but which is treated like a confirmed case based on its exposure history and clinical symptoms. …..”
    Pretty much anyone with a cough that insisted on being tested. and as Poppa points out, is desperately needed to bulk the numbers.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:30am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Sort of like you are probably a lotto winner because you believe you should be, or you got 3 winning numbers, and had meant to use the other numbers that won but didn’t.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:27am
      - alwyn
        
        3 Winning numbers?
        You do a lot better than I ever seem to. I got the Bonus number once on a line but I think that was about the best I’ve ever done.
        What is your secret?
        
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        April 23, 2020 5:38pm
    - MCos
      
      From the Ministry of Health
      Probable case
      • A case that meets the clinical criteria where other known aetiologies that fully explain the clinical presentation have been excluded and either has laboratory suggestive evidence or for whom testing for SARS-CoV-2 is inconclusive, or
      • a close contact of a confirmed case that either meets the clinical criteria and for whom testing cannot be performed, or
      • a is a negative result but a public health risk assessment indicates they should be classified as a probable case.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:49am
- Poppa
  
  We need to add those to bulk up the numbers to justify the destruction of the country
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:15am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yep, that’s why after weeks of triaging testing due to a shortage of reagents, and still getting 95% negative results, Jacinda was recently urging people to “request a test”.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:55am
- MrTips
  
  Greg
  symptomology strongly thought to be COVID19 and contact with a known case proven. Either no PCR test, or PCR test negative. Doctors don’t rely solely on Dx tests – they are adjunct to clinical picture. In absence of proven viral RNA, it only meets criteria of probable not proven.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:31am
- Yvette
  
  Greg
  The first confirmed case in New Zealand was February 28.
  The first time it seems tests were mentioned in daily releases was March 8, when 224 tests had been done, and it was not until March 18 (most likely, as a test total figures was not supplied for that day) that they reached their first 1000 tests.
  That was neither “going early, or going hard”
  And anti-body tests, assumed likely the only way to confirm “probable” cases as positive or not, are probably even less available than the initial test to show you are infected.
  How many anti-body tests are being done, if any?
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:36am
  - PhilBest
    
    It would be interesting to see data on that “by country”. And graphed in real time.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:56am
  - JackRabbit
    
    First probable with a high degree of certainty cases December.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:28am
Luke Piewalker

So today the Waikato river is clear

Guess it wasn’t dirty dairying polluting after all
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April 23, 2020 8:10am
- trout
  
  And so is the lower Waipa which normally resembles liquid fudge. Reasons are clear; no rain therefore no farm run off, and end of dairy season; most cows are dried off, many moved on to winter pasture. Dirty dairying alive and real in the Waikato. Rivers that used to run clear are silty and murky; a result of uncontrolled farm run off.
  
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  April 23, 2020 12:25pm
Lee C

I think ‘April 1st’ may be a clue, Greg…
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April 23, 2020 8:13am
mikenmildagain

Happy English Language Day!
Celebrating the birth/death dates of William Shakespeare.
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April 23, 2020 8:13am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  You missed a significant landmark yesterday Mike.
  
  Yesterday marked official recognition that New Zealand is an apartheid state, where the majority are the minority, when Adhern refused to acknowledge that the illegal roadblocks set up on public highway by maori, are ok.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:36am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Calling New Zealand an ‘apartheid state’ is an insult to the victims of actual apartheid.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:41am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      It’s pretty hard to argue that South Africa wasn’t a far better country under apartheid. Look at the general crime rates, and particularly the 70 odd thousand white farmers who have been tortured and murdered by the savages since about 1994. Similar to Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. If you want examples of what happens when the wrong people take control of a country, then southern Africa has two of them.
      
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      April 23, 2020 8:57am
      - Random T Person
        
        More than two Mister Proper, sir. Zambia, Mozambique, Tanzania and if you wander somewhat north Malawi and Uganda are all, well, interesting.
        
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        April 23, 2020 9:11am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hey, I thought you were complaining about apartheid. Make up your mind, do you want it or not?
        
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        April 23, 2020 9:31am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Yep, the communist ANC “liberated” South Africa.
        
        “With our boxes of matches, and our necklaces, we shall liberate this country” – Winnie Mandela.
        
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        April 23, 2020 9:35am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        mike
        Apartheid is not inherently about the minority ruling the majority. In SA it happened to be the Afrikaaners (minority) running the show over the blacks (majority).
        
        Yes Maori are the minority here. But the point is, you don’t want the wrong group in charge, be they a minority or a majority.
        
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        April 23, 2020 10:32am
    - david
      
      ‘victims” – Mike why don’t you go tell that to the relatives of those thousands who were “necklaced” during the glory years of the ANC and Mandela’s dictatorship.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:19am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Don’t understand. She refused to acknowledge that illegal roadblocks set up on the public highway by Maori are ok – ie, her position is that they are not ok – and that makes NZ an apartheid state? Or is there a “not” missing here?
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:56am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Whether she did or did not approve it is all window dressing.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:42am
    - Blackface Twin Reverb
      
      Have they been moved on yet?
      If not, why not?
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:55am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Which begs a “look in the mirror” moment.
        
        If it is OK for vigilantes, as in this case, to set up illegal blockades, and be manning them in contravention to the lockdown, because they believe it is “preventing the committing of a crime”, then application of the same principle, makes it OK for another bunch of people (white or otherwise) to take down said blockade because they believe it to be a “criminal act”, stopping essential traffic, and perform a “citizens arrest” on those that are manning the blockade.
        
        In a just court of law, Both, OR Neither should be found guilty. However NZ law is not just when it comes to skin colour.
        
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        April 23, 2020 12:13pm
  - Nickc2
    
    She and her Police Minister moved the goalposts on that one by calling them ‘Check Points’ FFS and obfuscating the issue.
    Maori Malitia (Mongeral Mob) Check Points aided and abetted by the NZ Police. How is that legal?
    Oh, that’s right, its all part of being a totalitarian country. Suck it up cupcakes.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:09am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Brownshirt ‘Check Points’
      
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      April 23, 2020 12:14pm
- PhilBest
  
  That ghastly dead white male, Mikey? How could you even type his name without your head exploding?
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:57am
- Random T Person
  
  Cheers Mike. My favourite passage:
  
  “I have of late—but wherefore I know not—lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercises; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapors.
  
  What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god! The beauty of the world, the paragon of animals!
  
  And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me—no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so.”
  
  It goes heavily with my disposition right now. I guess this might apply to others, too.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:15am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    For some reason I will always associate Shakespeare with a radio ad many years ago for camping equipment:
    “Now is the winter of our discount tent”
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:56am
GazzaW

Were there no journalists present at Jacinda’s gabfest with sufficient intestinal fortitude to pursue the GPs’ very major concerns regarding PPE, flu vax availability and funding and to just accept Ardern’s comment “I disagree”? The views were expressed by Kate Baddock on behalf of the GPs’ professional body to a Select Committee and Ardern can get away with such a facile argument? Those journos were a disgrace yesterday
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April 23, 2020 8:15am
- oldgolfer
  
  Just yesterday?
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:58am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  just as the PM was being quizzed about the appalling state of affairs for our GPs and other healthcare workers, up pipes a Journo to ask if Jacinda had “reached out” to her “friend Justin” over the Nova Scotian killings.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:59am
  - bruceavon
    
    Oh no. I can’t stand listening to them anymore. All of the women journos sound the same but one seems to dominate the yelling and get her questions through all the time. I think it is Jessica Mulch, who I notice married Ardern’s bearded bodyguard guy. Pretty cosy. Anyway whoever she is asks the lamest questions.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:09am
    - tf78
      
      What an awful job that guy has got. I saw them all on a plane to Gisborne last October (Friday morning) – he didn’t look the happiest of blokes. (We ended up sitting directly behind them, I was almost air sick).
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:33am
    - Ruawai
      
      I listened to Trudeau talk about the killings and he clearly speaks from the same play book as Ardern, treating his subjects as children that need a motivational speech.
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And look how useless “The Herald” is at providing an analysis of those concerns that the Journalists tried to raise:
  
  ‘I disagree’: Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern at odds with a number of people during press conference
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12326810
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:08am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Saying “I disagree” without setting out the basis for the disagreement in a logical and coherent manner is as big a waste of time as “refuting” an allegation without saying why.
    Surely if the herald had journalists with intestinal fortitude they would have pursued that line.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:24am
    - tf78
      
      She does it during question time regularly.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:34am
    - projectman
      
      She deflects all the time to avoid answering questions. The faithful, her parishioners, never see it or admit it of course (so-called journalists included). Already we are starting to see the spin to deflect the bad decisions that have been made onto others.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:36am
    - adamsmith1922
      
      Alex your answer is ‘Surely if the herald had journalists with intestinal fortitude they would have pursued that line’
      NZ media is in thrall to the Ardern myth
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:13am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    All she does is says she disagrees but offers no argument or any logic as to why. So she is basically just calling them liars. ie. she is right and they are wrong.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:01am
    - Evadne
      
      And that she is the sole arbiter of what is true or right.
      
      I.e. people can say it think what they like, but it ultimately all comes down to what Adern agrees with.
      
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      April 23, 2020 12:02pm
brett68

Key comes out in support of Luxon and how great he’d be as PM

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121200135/john-key-describes-what-chris-luxon-would-be-like-as-prime-minister

The takeaway from that is that National has no interest in winning the election.
Bridges to lose, be replaced by Luxon is obviously the preferred outcome for National.

Going to be a tough three years at least.
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April 23, 2020 8:16am
- emmess
  
  Luxon and Key discussed aspects of New Zealand’s diplomatic and economic relationship with China,
  
  No way, watching a tiny clip of that video
  I get the feeling this Luxon guy is very closely tied to China. They ask him about Jack Ma, Alibaba co-founder who is closely tied to the CCP who he has only favourable things to say about.
  
  I saw this video the other day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnNB6-osoiY
  Almost a year old in which it talks about Air NZs losses in China.
  
  I don’t think he is the sort of person we need as PM, right now. We need someone who will be willing to stand up to China. Perhaps, if Bridges is to go, Mark Mitchell will be the right man for the job.
  
  As an aside, does anyone else think Luxon looks a lot like Muldoon?
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:41am
  - tf78
    
    Do you remember when Simon’s poll numbers went up he was very upbeat which suited him well. With all the shit being thrown at him for so long no wonder he seems a little despondent. You can see how scowly Jacinda gets when someones mean to her. She has a defense team, Simon doesn’t apart from his fellow party members. A little praise for him now and then would not go amiss.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:42am
  - kowtow
    
    National’s Trojan horse is a Chinese dragon.
    
    Always remember comrades that one dragon is better than two sacred cows.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:52am
  - adamsmith1922
    
    Luxon is a no go as far as I am concerned
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:14am
    - jv
      
      Beware of evangelical christians
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:35am
  - Justitia
    
    “Skykiwi” has been outed by China experts like Professor Anne-Marie Brady as a propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party in New Zealand. Frankly the “China Virus” and in particular China’s behaviour around it have alienated many New Zealanders. National persist with these connections at their peril.
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:40am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Key needs to shut the fuck up. He and Luxon must be in some sort of relationship, the way he goes on about the guy. He’s no better than old Helen sticking her oar in at every opportunity.
  
  Key was a CEO, and that’s about it. Sure he responded to a couple of big events that he couldn’t avoid, but honestly, in a decade or two nobody will remember John Key. He’s just a liberal really. Piss off, you’ve had your time.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:43am
  - barnacle bill
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Key and English got very lucky with the Canterbury earthquakes.
    
    The amount of money that flowed into recovery over inflated their image as financial wizards.
    They were not.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:55am
  - PhilBest
    
    I fear that Luxon will just be Key mark2. Key gave us Helen’s 4th, 5th and 6th terms (what did he change, please remind me). Luxon might give us Jacinda’s fourth, fifth and sixth terms. Not repealing the oil and gas exploration ban. Not repealing constraints on freedom of speech. Not repealing welfare largesse.
    
    Think I’m exaggerating? Fool me once, Vichy National, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:01am
    - Tall Man
      
      Please identify the “better” alternative ………….
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:55am
      - Ruawai
        
        I am not keen on Luxon either. I would like to see Nikki Kaye but if she is not ready try Woodhouse, Collins or Goldsmith. Also don’t want to see Mitchell as leader who the media keep trotting out.
        
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        April 23, 2020 11:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    100% agree. Just like helen Sir John Key is yesterday’s man and needs to remember that.
    
    As an aside, I always find it amusing that labour focus so heavily on the leadership of National offering up alternatives for whatever leader is in the hot seat. It completely passes over their heads that National actually have options. Collins, Mitchell, Bennett etc and even Luxon who hasn’t even made it into Parliament is being looked at as a future leader.
    
    Let’s list the labour options. ardern, ………….. oops, nothing.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:20am
  - david
    
    Key is just taking the first step in getting Luxon into Parliament. That is to pump Luxon and thus get rid of Ross in Botany. Even John Key knows it would be premature to be promoting as PM, someone who has yet to set foot in the debating chamber or even stood for Parliament yet.
    Looking for the real reason for statements is like peeling an onion – the surface colour is not what you get to use.
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:28am
- barnacle bill
  
  Key has found himself a puppet.
  
  The timing of this release is very interesting.
  Hang on to Bridge, until my Boy comes after the election, and take over the leadership and all will be well again.
  
  He has now more or less said that the current National MP’s in parliament are a pack of no hopers.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:50am
  - PhilBest
    
    I couldn’t agree more. Key dominated the Candidate selection process nationwide and stacked it with tame, nicey, stuffed-shirt, “inoffensive”, people who think “Hayek” is a Mexican actress.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:04am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Your knowledge of National Party candidate selections is 100% wrong Phil. Local party members make the decisions, and candidates promoted by the party leadership tend to be viewed with suspicion by the locals.
      
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      April 23, 2020 1:31pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Isn’t it funny how the Left hang on Key’s every word when it suits them.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:05am
  - Clyde
    
    Key is right about his assessment of current National MP’s, but he could have gone further. On BOTH sides of the House we are not well served at all. The Cabinet is not exactly filled with talent – Jackson, Clark, Davis, Twyford, Little, Mahuta, Nash, Jones spring to mind as being talentless, but honestly I look at the entire line-up for National and there isn’t a lot of talent there either. What is the solution?
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:21am
    - tf78
      
      I think maybe you should dig a little deeper into National’s MP there are some extremely good people. I have taken the time to go and listen to them speak and I have not found one disappointing.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:53am
- peterwn
  
  To put it bluntly, National is very much on the back foot. In the eyes of many, Jacinda can do no wrong and Simon can do no right. National has been accused of politicising the Coronavirus outbreak, never mind that Labour has politicised it even more – and with taxpayer’s money. Labour has effectively been able to run its election campaign during the lockdown. National is finding it almost impossible to run any sort of campaign.
  So my prediction is some normally National supporters will support Jacinda in the forthcoming election and there is nothing National can do about it even with a superhuman leader. She would be able to form a government without having to call upon NZ First and possibly the Greens, though she would probably throw the Greens a few crumbs.
  Hence National’s best hope is to try and avoid being hollowed out 2002 style.
  National’s other best hope could be, together with NZ First’s help, to try and postpone the election for a year. This assumes that Winston also sees a similar benefit in doing so.
  Discuss.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:04am
  - tf78
    
    I totally agree, postpone for a year, people will see the utter shambles Jacinda/Labour have created and then the Nats will be the government for the foreseeable future.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:55am
  - kowtow
    
    I think there’s a bit of a turn in the MSM . After their Jax lock down honey moon there are more questioning stories appearing , and about time too .
    
    Maybe reality is finally biting them or maybe they feel guilty about how sycophantic they’ve been , who knows .
    
    PPE , GP , dentistry and the effects on small business all coming through, albeit very gently……
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:57am
    - peterwn
      
      “I think there’s a bit of a turn in the MSM”
      Maybe, but MSM is getting desperate for a big handout at the taxpayer’s expense (or Goggle’s and Facebook’s if the Government can swing that).
      So MSM is not going to be too willing to bite the hand that potentially feeds it.
      If there is going to be Government or external assistance to MSM it must be on condition of a political neutrality charter.
      Otherwise it is Corruption with a big C (Ginny Anderson please note – you have had much to say on ‘corruption’ wnen Labour was in opposition).
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:21am
  - Gravelroad
    
    I’m confused- Peterwn.
    You suggest that National should consult with Mr Winston Peters of the NZ1st Party and ask for his help to postpone the election?
    That’s just politics of expediency, I suppose.
    All good mates together really?
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:05am
    - peterwn
      
      It is not being ‘good mates’, it is a matter of whether the two parties have a similar objective ie to delay the election. National would benefit from a delayed election which would increase its chances of winning enough seats to govern alone. NZ First would also probably benefit from a delayed election and may think it would still have the balance of power and have Shane Jones installed in the Northland seat.
      
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      April 23, 2020 1:28pm
  - Liberty
    
    Peterwn
    “National supporters will support Jacinda”
    Peter you are wrong. “What can you put in my wallet voters” will vote for Jacinda.
    Just as Flies are attracted to meadow biscuits.
    National supporters are a bit more discerning.
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:12am
    - Mark Craig
      
      All pigs fed and ready to fly.
      
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      April 24, 2020 6:14pm
  - Lee C
    
    Yes I watched with jaw-dropping disbelief a piece of political propaganda about NZ being in ‘unity’ with ‘The NZ Government’ at the end last night on tv. I thought are we in North Korea or something?
    
    These people are dangerous.
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:47am
  - david
    
    Peterson, “ …… with taxpayer’s money. “
    Indeed Labour seem relatively flush with a campaign of paid adverts through the country extolling how well Labour ( note it is not ‘The Government’ or ‘ the Coalition’) have done in saving New Zealand from a fate worse than death.
    Where indeed has the Labour Party found its source of funds for this and for payment of the twitter bot attack on Bridges?
    
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    April 23, 2020 2:43pm
- kevn
  
  @brett… Yep, JA has ensured she will leave a poisoned chalice.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:09am
- Tall Man
  
  I know how you feel about Simon Bridges but it is good to see a little balance here.
  
  I don’t agree that National have no interest in winning this year. No politician sets out to “not win”. I do agree that many saw and some still see Simon Bridges as a fill in leader but for me he has grown into the role reasonably well especially taking into account the media obsession with ardern and the total negativity towards both Simon and National.
  
  However, I would vote for any party that offered a better option than ardern and the actual leader is irrelevant to me.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:16am
- Isobar
  
  A lot of supporters will take Keys advice seriously. I predict a lot of National votes now heading to NZF to ensure the handbrake remains.
  
  Its a terrible look for him to endorse Luxon at this time.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:36am
  - barnacle bill
    
    @Isobar
    Yes it is.
    It is like he would like to re enter parliament himself, but is unsure about how that would be received, and his big ego would not like to loose.
    
    Next best thing is have this Luxon Lad in the leadership role so he can pull the strings in the back ground.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:52am
- MCos
  
  Talk about a party falling apart before our eyes.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:59am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Oh bollocks.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:35am
  - Tall Man
    
    If you want to see a party fall apart take ardern out of labour. The idiots are still seething in the background assuming “they” could hold the party together when she finally swans off. They’re wrong and the truth is that ardern is not holding the party together, the lies she tells and the cover from the media is what is holding the party together.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:53am
    - MCos
      
      Labour falls apart on a regular basis going back to John A Lee who got his nose out of joint right back in the 1st Labour Government.
      On the other hand it’s a rare occurrence with National, which is why John Key putting the boot into poor old Simon tends to raise an eyebrow.
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:40am
      - brett68
        
        Especially when it was Key who got him the job in the first place.
        
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        April 23, 2020 1:01pm
    - Paulus
      
      Robertson still thinks h has a chance when she gets beaten in September.
      But she will not resign though – she thinks she is invincible.
      Back to the Unions again.
      
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      April 23, 2020 1:54pm
  - Mark Craig
    
    Oh yes please yes.
    
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    April 24, 2020 6:16pm
Justitia

The Epidemic Response Committee was even more compelling viewing than usual yesterday. The testimony of the various health sector associations was chilling. GPs, dentists and pharmacies are close to going out of business. The flu vaccine roll-out has been an utter shambles. Grave deficiencies in PPE availability for health professionals continue and the costs are escalating. Meanwhile the Minister of Health remains sublimely indifferent at his Dunedin hideaway, having “conversations” into thin air. It was pleasing to see the media finally picking up on these matters of real public concern. The veil is slowly being lifted and Ardern’s spin is beginning to be challenged. Once a crack appears it will become a torrent.
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April 23, 2020 8:21am
- Tony Stuart
  
  David Clark emerged from hiding this morning to talk to Mike Hosking. But he shouldn’t have bothered; he gave his normal non-answers.
  
  As for Ardern not accepting the premise of Dr Kate Baddock’s statement to the ERC yesterday that the flu vaccine roll-out this year has been “a complete debacle”, words fail me. Dr Baddock is a practising GP, on the health front line. She’s also so respected within the profession that she chairs the Medical Association. I will take her word over the Prime Minister’s on any day ending in d-a-y.
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/kate-baddock-medical-association-says-flu-vaccine-rollout-has-be-a-complete-debacle/
  
  I agree with you Justitia; the worm turned yesterday. It may have been only slightly, but this morning media are reporting this, which is significant. And David Clark has simply reinforced the fact that he is totally ineffective as Health Minister, and coronavirus or no coronavirus, the PM should have sacked him while she had the chance. He is incompetent, and her judgment is lacking, at a time when we need strong leadership.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:33am
  - pdm
    
    Ardern, `stretched’ the truth yesterday when she said that they brought the flu jabs forward and they were early this year.
    
    We, mrspdm and I, had ours on almost exactly the same date (26 March) as we had them last year – so I call bulldust on her statement.
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:54am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Even though I am on the priority list (a chronic blood condition) I did not get around to getting my flu shot before the lockdown. Given that I pretty much haven’t left home in four weeks, I’m not too worried, but I will remedy that shortly.
      
      21 1
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      April 23, 2020 8:57am
      - Max Howler
        
        Good idea Tony. In case you haven’t got a suitable remedy, here is some from the web 🙂
        
        https://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/white-seeber-grogan-the-remedy-chicks/natural-hangover-remedies/
        
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        April 23, 2020 9:09am
      - Nookin
        
        Also on the list Tony but cannot get the shot because the vaccine is not available.
        
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        April 23, 2020 9:20am
      - pdm
        
        Inv we were contacted by a nurse in our GP’s practice the week before to make the appointment so it was made on about the 20 March. In that call she said they already had the vaccine on hand.
        
        Jab was done in the car park.
        
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        April 23, 2020 9:30am
      - marcw
        
        @PDM – no one is saying vaccines werent available, the problem is the availability didn’t match the hype then and now. Most GPs and pharmacies received part deliveries, and non-delivery of further requests. No good having lots of vaccines ordered from overseas suppliers if they are not available and in GPs fridges ready to be administered.
        
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        April 23, 2020 10:12am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Said yesterday it did not pass the sniff test. Compulsive liar
      
      11 1
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      April 23, 2020 10:03am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Got my flu jab in mid-March. Phone and confirmed I qualified and got the shot the next day.
      I think there needs to be some enquiry into the distribution this year. Many more doses were ordered, and the programme began earlier than usual. So something has clearly gone wrong.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    the worm turned yesterday
    
    Indeed it did.. and what compelling viewing it was seeing an articulate intelligent woman speaking clearly and directly to the committee.
    
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/scl/epidemic-response/news-archive/watch-public-meetings-of-the-epidemic-response-committee/
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:20am
- Libertarians are right
  
  So Simon Bridges was right then? I assume there’ll be 24,000 apologies to him for there disgraceful lies and attacks on him?
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:15am
  - adamsmith1922
    
    Bridges was correct, I find the FB hating number to be very suspicious
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:19am
HalfFull

No shit Sherlock.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121147156/coronavirus-contact-tracing-system-blamed-for-new-zealand-remaining-in-covid19-lockdown

Yep we all knew Bloomfield was bluffing the country, DHB management are not good enough. Not enuf PPE. OLD deteriorating PPE,
Bad logistics management, a courier company could do it better. Tracing virtually non existent.

Hmmm what to do.

Worse case modelling from …. Done
Tell Cindy – done ( Yep Cindy has a problem later “As I Say” will later be “I was told” Ill suck it a bit, who cares her problem.)
Get more $ – done
Bluff – Done
Get some more $ – done
Double down on bluff – done (gotta stretch this one)
Ok Its working – done

Hmmm I could restructure the DHB’s hmmm

Self impose Audit and various parts of DHB + various other sections cos I know its effed – start as soon as.

if completed delay results a bit for timing properly, give to govt (who will also delay) – keep a copy for later use for press to keep the govt in line.

Labour will create a committees to investigate later. Who cares how long… I guess mid next year.

Get more $

Reduce DHB’s to ???

You have to admire the guy he could not change what he could not change. Hey look over here we are all unemployed.

Also because Labour cant masturbate with one hand and use the mouse properly with the other. Labour Will fuck everyone it doesn’t like ie SME’s.

(sorry for the swearing, been in a bubble too long and ran out of whiskey weeks ago)
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April 23, 2020 8:23am
- thetiedarch
  
  This article by Stuff pisses me off.
  
  Not because it is wrong.
  
  But because it’s exactly what Bridges was saying in his FB post.
  
  Yet, let’s all pile in on Bridges?!?!
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:33am
  - emmess
    
    The thing I find most suspicious about the Bridges manufactured story is that there are 29000 comments on the post when a typical post will only have a few hundred and they all basically say the same thing…
    
    I have always voted National but Jacinda is awesome.
    
    I even read one of these supposed recent National supporters comments barraging Simon about his ‘white male privilege’???
    Now notwithstanding the fact that Simon is not exactly white, who has ever heard a National supporter talk like that?
    
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    April 23, 2020 8:53am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed emmess. It’s certainly not language I have every heard at a National Party meeting. Normally the talk is more around rain, grass growth and milk prices.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:02am
    - Ruahine
      
      Just for the record for all lefty opinion writers at stuff, herald etc why have you not noticed that Simon Bridges and Paula Bennett are Maori according to the ‘newspeak’ definition of ethnicity.
      A new headline for you.
      ‘National Part is run by Maoris’.
      Don’t worry Simon. I’ve got your back Bro. We Maoris have to stick together.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:06am
    - theoldbloke
      
      You are aware of course the the Coalition have hired the leading digital marketeers to “”get the message to NZ public””.
      These are the guys that helped Boris “”thrash”” labour at the UK elections.
      Duh
      When will people realise that MSM sources most of their stories from Social media!!!!!
      Hence simply load Simon’s facebook page with negative comments will achieve MSM prominence and give the soundbyte that everyone disagrees with Simon..
      
      So why not do the same to Jacinda. Quoting one of her many untruths.
      There are many in her speech announcing the move to Level 3
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:18am
      - Ruahine
        
        TOB.
        
        Topham Guerin. Perchance.?
        They don’t come cheap.
        But then Labour now has plenty of money apparently.
        
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        April 23, 2020 10:31am
      - Tall Man
        
        Are you sure Topham Guerin are still on board?
        
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        April 23, 2020 10:47am
      - tf78
        
        No I think Labour thought themselves so clever they don’t need them.
        
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        April 23, 2020 11:42am
    - DeepBlue
      
      The silent majority of National voters would never comment on FB supporting Bridges because of the retaliation.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:36am
      - tf78
        
        Or are a majority of National voters too smart to go near Facebook.
        
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        April 23, 2020 10:00am
    - kowtow
      
      If this had happened to a “left wing” politician our media party would be going Putin mental on people trying to influence our politics …….but as the victim is perceived as right wing , not so much.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:02am
    - John Warren
      
      The moment they say “I am a National voter but…” or any words to that general effect, you know they aren’t.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:27am
    - Tall Man
      
      29,000 …… Yeah Right.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:48am
    - Ruawai
      
      National need to investigate the responses and get it in the media if it was bots responding.
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Different when the left do it
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:06am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Contact tracing systems and provision of PPE to those on the front line were two of the issues Simon Bridges raised in his statement on Monday for which he has been vilified. Maybe Bridges was right all along…
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:36am
- Tall Man
  
  Whisky & More.co.nz
  
  😉
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:23am
Im Right

Been wondering….when we are out of lockdown and into Lvl2 or 1 and the election campaign starts in earnest (assuming it’s not delayed), can ANY one here not envisage the standard reply to anything questioned/queried that is Covid-19 related from the opposition ‘If we didn’t do what we did we would have had *80,000 dead, *insert some fantastical number here, and effectively shut down any debate dead in it’s tracks. Now the fantastical dead number comes from a worst case scenario projection and not on solid medical scientific facts! but alas I suspect the only ones that will be questioning the PM’s numbers will be the opposition and with no debate they will just look like doomsday merchants and Labour will beat them over the head with ‘National would have allowed 80,000 to die so their business donors could open early’….National need to be VERY careful and tip toe around the whole virus thing in campaigning as the media are obviously (not surprised) on Labours side.
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April 23, 2020 8:27am
- PhilBest
  
  There is one very, very simple and logical counter argument National desperately needs to wake up to. That is, if there ever was going to be thousands of deaths, lockdown wouldn’t have stopped the curve rising to dozens of deaths per day before the lockdown started to have an effect. Viruses don’t just magically de-activate at the word of a Prime-Minister-cum-Saint, and people die weeks after infection, not the same day.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  I disagree about the tiptoe suggestion. They simply need to hold the line on these three things:
  
  1. Theoretical models from across the globe have proven themselves fantastically wrong. So wrong it’s just not worth discussing “what if’s”. Next point.
  
  2. The actual impact of response is record unemployment, record business failures, and a record reduction if GDP which is proven to shorten the lives of New Zealander
  
  3. The Labour government, led by Jacinda Ardern are responsible for the worst disaster in the history of our country. They must be held to account, and they must be removed from office before more damage is caused.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:23am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Very good. The economic destruction happening is not because of the virus, it’s because of the governments reaction to the virus.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:55am
- C-Town
  
  Then come election time, look at the death rates of other countries that have not had lockdowns (or at least more lenient lockdowns) such as Brazil, Belarus or Sweden. For example if the 80,000 figures was applied to Brazil which has 40 times the population of NZ, then they’d have over 3 million deaths. Sweden would have about 160,000 deaths. Currently they are nowhere those numbers and their death and infections appear to be waning.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:58am
- Nickc2
  
  The retort pertaining to the quote “If we didn’t do what we did we would have had *80,000 dead” is simple. If you had closed all our borders when first notified of the virus, there would have been no deaths whatsoever. The virus was imported across our borders. If they were closed until the government sorted out what they were going to do instead of hanging out at all costs until the Muslim hoards arrived for Cindy’s hug-fest, we would not have had one death due to COVID-19.
  All this crap about going hard and early is just that, crap.
  
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  April 23, 2020 12:14pm
Nukuleka

What the hell was John Key doing talking John Luxon up as a potential Prime Minister? Luxon isn’t even an MP. Is Key totally tone deaf? He must have known that the media would seize upon this and use it as a stick with which to continue to beat Simon Bridges. You chose to leave politics, Mr Key. Stop meddling.
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April 23, 2020 8:27am
- JackRabbit
  
  If I had to choose which ex PM to make a recommendation, far sooner it was Key, not Mx Clark.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:55am
- John Warren
  
  One can only assume he chose to meddle.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:28am
- Sacha
  
  And there is always that little question hiding in the background: why did Key decide to leave so suddenly?
  Why?
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:33am
- Faroffsound
  
  Well said. Former MPs of whatever rank should bugger off and do something other than make themselves available for comment. They have had their spell in the limelight.
  
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  April 23, 2020 3:31pm
I remember when

Australia starting to stir. Only 3 cases yesterday. PM talking about going to Anzac dawn parade. South Australian schools open next week. No talk about if you want to go. MOH in fact have issued statement to the effect that it is considered safe.
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April 23, 2020 8:31am
Ruahine

I have read the explanation on the Ministry of Health Website. The trouble with saying something is probable is that in regard to the description of cases we do not know if this is supposed to mean probably are or probably not by true definition.
We also are not told how many go from probable to definite. One might presume that it is a mechanism to increase numbers but for what purpose is unclear.
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April 23, 2020 8:33am
oldpark

Go figure this one . Turning on Newstalk ZB yesterday to hear what that channel was offering on the events of the day . There were Two main news items .
After being tuned into Talk Magic prior with Peter Williams and Shaun Plunket aboard they were like a breath of fresh air reporting on what where and how things were being or not reported by the sycophantic sickly afraid of their own shadows
Mainstream Media of not reporting how the Peters selected Ardern was performing or even half the lies she was telling were not true. .
Imagine on Newstalkzb at 4.00PM there was wee junior ms/Soper who masquerades as HDPA spreading the fake news about Simon Bridges about to be deposed and dumped from the National Party .
She completely ignored the real story .Earlier in the day at the 1.00pm Propaganda news about the virus and questions being taken by Ardern .
Wee ms/junior Soper fell over herself singing the praises of Peters selected PM Ardern . Not a word about Ardern condoning the roadblocks set up by Hone Harawira and his gang . Even though there is documented evidence that NZs going about their lawful business were being bullied and intimated. At the same time when told by the Medical Profession spokewoman there was a massive shortage of PPE equipment for hospital nurses and flu Vaccines also not available for Health outlets. . Ardern said she did not agree.
Even worse on the same programme daddy bear Senior Soper came on and accordance with wee junior ms/Soper continued to put the boot into Simon Bridges . Completely ignoring the main story of the day . Yes the utterances of Arden condoning the road blocks by virtually sanctioned roadside terrorists,as well as denying the truth of the shortage of Product for our Medical Profession in their hours of need .
Think it is time to bring back Larry Williams and
show the wee biased HDPA alias junior ms/Soper how to tell the truth in the news and not suppress it .Just saying .
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April 23, 2020 8:33am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes Larry Williams was the best
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:43am
artemisia

Fantastic opportunity for the many vegans in our community. They’ve had a great idea and won’t be able to resist taking over the Burger King chain from liquidation. After a thorough clean of course to deal to all those teeny tiny nasty atoms.

PETA asks Burger King to reopen as a chain of vegan restaurants

Oh, sorry no vegan crowdfunding coming up, no putting money where big loud mouth is. Someone else has to pay.
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April 23, 2020 8:34am
- JackRabbit
  
  Vegans. Re-incarnated cows that gather together to moo.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:57am
Tony Stuart

David Cormack now believes that he was being used when he blogged on Tuesday night about there being a coup underway in the National Party.

He probably was, but an apology wouldn’t go amiss.
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April 23, 2020 8:35am
- tf78
  
  That’s the trouble when people don’t like the message or the messenger.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:43am
- Souvlaki
  
  Almost certainly stoned at the time. He is a known Labour lacky AND in the past Labour have been known to have organise banks of supporters to bombard radio stations/ newspapers etc etc.
  Remember how some nonentity by the name of Peter Davis always used to flood the Herald with letters of support for H1 ? This is NO DIFFERENT..a beat up by the desperati !
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:50am
  - artemisia
    
    A pile on of that magnitude suggests coordination. Why? Desperati sounds like a good descriptor for folk who finally noticed an election is coming up. Fast.
    
    What was it Oscar Wilde said?
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:10am
  - Tall Man
    
    Listening to all the labour interns yesterday phoning Magic made me laugh.
    
    It revealed a total lack of intellect as being the driving force behind being a labour supporter.
    
    I also mentioned yesterday that some twit cited posts on Kiwiblog as evidence that a coup was running against Simon Bridges. A vocal minority of a few dozen who are probably not even committed National supporters is evidence of nothing but believing they have relevance is certainly an indication of something!
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:33am
    - tf78
      
      I heard that guy, I wonder if he meant BFD – Cameron Slater seems to hate National with a passion.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:13am
    - Mark Craig
      
      Erm shortarse that would have been me ,I have had nothing better to do for 1 month than monitor what the Gnats have had to say on here.Please carry on Mr Ostrich ,do not let me get in the way.
      
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      April 24, 2020 6:25pm
  - tf78
    
    Souvlaki, I do remember Peter Davis writing disparaging comments about Labour about 18 months ago – haven’t heard of him since.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:12am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He’s still out there..
      but as his latest article (2 days ago) is behind a Herald paywall, I’ve no idea what slant he’s taking.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12326085
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:44am
      - Durden
        
        MW. Peter Davis (troughing as an elected member of the Auck DHB) does not provide justification for any of his claims. He talks about health system learnings. A light COMMENT (mostly opinion) article. :
        
        – The hospital system can adapt quickly under pressure. e.g. IC beds doubled. I would say it has never been tested.
        
        – Skill and role boundaries between staff can be blurred. Temporary exemptions have been sought under legislation to allow more role flexibility. Can we make this permanent? I say tell that to your friends – the Unions.
        
        – Fee-for-service and patient co-payments in primary care are problematic. – patients are not attending, put off by fees. A simple extension of ACC cover to illness in family practice — I say he is continuing Labour’s effort to make accident cover expand to addiction etc and now general health.
        
        – Planned, ambulatory, outpatient, and elective care need to be clearly separated out. I say why not design to “blur the boundaries” and reconfigure as needed?
        
        – The demand for acute hospital care is surprisingly “elastic”. Inpatient bed occupancy is half what it is usually, as is use of the ED, and intensive care has been stepped down substantially. I say people are suffering or dying (and impact will surface in the future) because the government has scared them away or forcibly stopped services.
        
        – The National Health Index (NHI) number can be used more. Northland DBH is using the NHI to target vulnerable populations for flu vaccination. Huh ?
        
        – Ethnic inequalities are not evident. Yeah Sure.
        
        – The aged care sector needs a thorough review. More central government control ?
        
        – You don’t miss public health – until you miss it. Que ?
        
        – You need a strong centre. Nope you need central management of administrative overhead services. Leave clinical management local.
        
        – There have also been strong independent voices in the academic sector. ll agenda driven bull shit. Very poor input with infighting.
        
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        April 23, 2020 11:51am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Txs, Durden.
        
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        April 23, 2020 11:58am
- MCos
  
  Used by who?
  
  John Key?
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:02am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Used by the people who were putting stories around social media about the rumours they had heard. Top of the list would be Neale Jones and “Hey Clint” Smith.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:37am
Wangas Feral

With China in the shit financially – I mean even more so than some others – do you think that they will use war as a solution? Things starting to look pretty scary out there. The Chinese are probing Taiwan like crazy at the moment.
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April 23, 2020 8:39am
- cmm
  
  Are China really in the shit?
  
  Two of the companies that I work with in the electronic sector were having printed circuit boards made in China as the Wuflu hit. The boards were only delayed by 2 weeks and those factories seem to be back to full production.
  
  Chinese factories making PPE and test kits etc for export are having a boom.
  
  Meanwhile the rest of the world has shut down factories and taken a knock and there is apparently evidence that Chinese are snapping up the low-priced Western shares.
  
  Perhaps China is going to bounce back faster than anyone else and end up owning more of the Monopoly board.
  
  If you’re into conspiracy theories, then it is a great way to run a bloodless war.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:12am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Xi’s friends factories didn’t really stop.
    China has very little USD to pay its bills. (Europe too)
    The Fed is helping them both out. So I doubt they will be buying anything.
    Look to China retract its expansion around the world.
    Xi will be gone within two years
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:01am
Tony Stuart

Why did Dr Ashley Bloomfield provide a misleading statement to yesterday’s media conference by saying the woman in Dunedin Hospital was in a “stable” condition? The hospital has informed the family that was incorrect, and the woman remains criticially ill, in ICU, on a ventilator.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/414917/family-of-critically-ill-woman-in-invercargill-unsure-how-they-got-covid-19

It’s also believed that this case is as a result of community transmission of the coronavirus which is worrying, given the Director-General and Prime Minister have reassured us that community transmission is not an issue. The D-G also revealed yesterday that the source of the infection that led to the death of our first coronavirus fatality (on the West Coast), is not yet known.

Is there anything else we are not being told?
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April 23, 2020 8:47am
- cmm
  
  AFAIK, stable just means they are not getting worse at this time.
  
  ie, You can be in a bad way, but stable because you are not getting worse.
  
  But the longer you’re on a ventilator, the less good your chances, so the “stable” call sounds a bit optimistic.
  
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  April 23, 2020 8:58am
- lifesgood
  
  In medical parlance “stable” means no change in the condition. That makes sense. It doesn’t mean improving.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:05am
- PhilBest
  
  Community transmission actually isn’t a problem here just like the whole virus isn’t a problem here. Community transmission and the virus being a problem, go along together. When you have hundreds of deaths per million population, as the epicentres do, most of them are from community transmission. NZ has only stood a chance of its non-organised case tracing system actually catching up next week, because this virus spreads so non-virulently under NZ conditions that we have two point something deaths per million. Nothing to do with the lockdown, either.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:24am
- nickle
  
  I find the community transmission argument interesting. There is still no known source for the Marist College cluster, but it is responsible for 93 of our positive cases. So 93 community transmissions or 1 (I know, I know the other 92 are ‘linked’ to an existing cluster)
  
  Also, schools are safe as per the latest news. Yet Marist College remains our 2nd biggest cluster??
  
  We have very low transmission, but 1 person was responsible for the Bluff cluster of 98?
  
  While I understand they use these kinds of terminology in their ‘technical’ sense, seems like the wording is deliberately misleading for us laymen.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:30am
cmm

We have an over-reliance on inappropriate modeling in NZ.

Note I am not saying this is a competence issue. Modelling with a small “lumpy” population is challenging – if not impossible.

However, IMHO, it is irresponsible to project their results with level of confidence they are using and pretend we’re being scientific.

All the modeling we’re using in our “data driven” decision making thus far is based on a homogeneous population. ie. All people/events can be treated equally and have an equal probability of being infected or encountering infected people.

This is, of course, done to simplify the model and make it manageable.

This approach can work in large populations, but falls down badly in small populations like ours. This problem is highly related to the “small number” problem of dealing with statistics in a place like NZ.

To give an illustration, consider the Easter road death toll. In NZ this is a very small number (average less than 10, IIRC) and one car crash can easily change the number from being an excellent year to a bad year. In a large country, a few car crashes here or there only make a very tiny % change. This makes the concept of an Easter death toll meaningless in NZ.

Similarly as Kiwis we have approx a 47% chance of getting pregnant in our lives. But that is not uniform. Biological women have a 94% chance and the biological men have zero. If you zoom out in a large enough population to the extent that you can’t see individuals then it merges to 47%. However at a family level we’ll see 4 daughter families (84% chance), and four son families (16% chance).

Now the same applies when it comes to infections. Infections (and deaths) mostly happen in clusters. Approx half the infections in NZ have happened in clusters of 10 or more people.

The vast majority of deaths have happened in aged residential care. If infections stay out of old age homes then the rate stays low, if it gets into old age homes the rate goes up.

Clusters (and aged care residences) are clearly not homogenous with the rest of the community, especially in a small population like NZ.

Again, the same applies when people talk about the R0 number like it is something special and static. No, the R0 is different for different sub-populations (eg. very high in old age homes, very low in some other places). R0 also depends on the season, population density, use of public transport. R0 also changes as people build up herd immunity.

Models with one R0 number are broken in that they do not match reality. They might, however, be “good enough” in some situations, especially where the population is large and we can work with some sort of average.

For those reasons I think models that might work in large populations are often unlikely to work here. (NB I say might, because many models are extremely iffy even in large populations).

The only good news in this is that the Centre of Excellence people driving modelling in NZ have indicated that they want to start sub-population modelling. That is a good thing.

Unfortunately it is also an admission that their modelling done to date is of lesser value (and has, unfortunately, shown itself to be flat out wrong).

It is a pity that they attach such confidence to their work that it is swaying policy making.
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April 23, 2020 8:53am
- MrTips
  
  Hendy shouldn’t be allowed near anything on this. What disturbed me highly yesterday is that Cindy revealed she chooses Hendy’s untrained opinion over that of Sir David Skegg, a medically trained epidemiologist and expert.
  
  The link, imo: climate change. Both Hendy and Ardern will turn the conversation to climate change benefits. Just watch.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:14am
  - cmm
    
    Not quite.
    
    Skeggs was saying drop the lockdown immediately.
    
    Hendy’s last report said we need 3 months of level 4 and even 6 weeks is not enough. He has probably rolled that back to 6 weeks in the light of his most optimistic modelling being way more pessimistic than what is happening in reality.
    
    It appears she split the difference and went with the 5 days “as insurance”. ie. to be seen to have done the right thing and, maybe, a bit of extra power tripping.
    
    Hendy should have told everyone his models were wrong and withdrawn them. IMHO, it is grossly irresponsible to have kept up pushing these models when they are obviously wrong.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:38am
  - Fletch
    
    Greta already has. Trying to remain relevant in a world that doesn’t need her…
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:41am
- PhilBest
  
  Outstanding post, CMM. One of the best I’ve seen so far. I am convinced that even at the level of hard-hit cities, like NYC, the crucial factor is the indoors environment where people are crammed in socialising. I bet every second bar and restaurant in NYC at the fateful period, had HEVAC conditions like our Bluff restaurant. Combined with careless behavior under the influence of drink and other “substances”.
  
  We should be investigating this whole thing at the level of the environment, both climate and indoors, rather than obsessing about national “deaths per million” and scoring petty points about the various chosen political responses. This whole thing reminds me of the history of previous diseases like Malaria; until it was known how it was spread – and it was lonely contrarians who said it was mosquitos – everything the authorities could do was only so much beating the air.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:31am
- DeepBlue
  
  Excellent post CMM. Much easier to understand R0.
  
  However, the model was purely political. The epidemiologists wanted any model that would get Jacinda to start lockdown. They didn’t really care about the detail.
  
  Trouble is the model is there to be reviewed so egg will be on someone’s face. But not Jacinda’s because she was acting on advice of experts based on the best information known at the time.
  
  I think National party should be using Treasury’s unemployment model and move onto talking about what life will be like in July and what their recovery approach is. They can’t score many wins over Jacinda at the moment with her popularity and MSM support.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:00am
Cunningham

The list of issues related to the handling of the covid 19 by this government is growing:

– PPE distribution debacle still going . It’s embarrassing.
– Contact tracing ability not up to scratch (Bridges raised it and was shouted down but he was right). Now we spend longer in lock down because of it.
– Our poor comparison to Australia. They are literally beating us in almost every single way.
– Flu vaccine issues.
– Health minister almost completely absent during our worst ever health crisis.

And our PM gets up yesterday and just says she doesn’t agree when questioned. FFS how is this leadership? I think the storm coming to our economy is going to be worse then thought and if National can get their act together, this government is going to cop it like no other government in our history.
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April 23, 2020 8:55am
- Cinematic
  
  Yes, ‘doesn’t agree’ isn’t an answer. Show us the evidence if you’re so confident Jacinda.
  
  It was clear to me on watching Prof. Skegg’s interview by the committee in week 2 that Bloomfield and Team Jacinda were failing to deliver behind the scenes.
  
  Words at press stand-ups aren’t delivery. This government has fallen at practically every delivery hurdle over their term. Even when a (dubious) health crisis arose they couldn’t find the gumption to get shit done. They’re dangerously pathetic.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:44am
  - Cunningham
    
    And not really being held to account which is the big concern. It’s only in a few months time when we are in serious shit that they will face a backlash and be put under scrutiny but by then it is too late.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:59am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And not really being held to account which is the big concern.
      
      You would think reporters at Stuff, RNZ and The Herald have enough information to prove to us that they really do play an important role in a democracy.
      
      But as they can’t be bothered following up the disasters listed above, then it’s little wonder folks can’t be bothered funding their “journalism”.
      
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      April 23, 2020 10:51am
- Paulus
  
  The political media ladies will not report the National Party and their policies. These policies are ready but cannot get headway yet due to total media prejudice.
  They will continue to do whatever they can to condemn anything that National says.
  They are so still prejudiced it is unbelievable – particularly Tova but she is not alone.
  
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  April 23, 2020 2:06pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Paulus, it doesn’t really matter anymore, the Government own/control media content by virtue of their funding bailout.
    
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    April 23, 2020 3:14pm
I remember when

How much are coronavirus results influenced by the size of major cities as a percentage of their population? In the case of the UK figures the influence of London and also New York on the early US results. When considering Sweden, Finland and Norway it would seem that having 3 larger cities mean that Sweden would expect higher totals. No, not as much as they are but perhaps 250/300. Finland in fact is a success story as Helsinki makes up over a quarter of their population.
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April 23, 2020 9:03am
- cmm
  
  The infection & death rates are highly skewed within countries.
  
  NYC is approx 5% of the USA population but accounts for 50% of the deaths in USA. That makes NYC death rate 18x the rest of the country and somewhere closer to 50x more sparsely populated areas.
  
  USA is, generally a car-loving nation but less than 50% of households in NYC have cars. Well over half the population of NYC ride buses and subways every day. That’s a perfect way to spread a virus.
  
  The same applies in Spain. Most of the infections and deaths are around Barcelona with its massive subway/public transport system.
  
  Infection rates in Norway, Sweden and Denmark are almost identical. It is only on death rate that they actually differ.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    I Remember, and Cmm, good direction of questioning. Yes, dense cities is a factor that points in the right direction – but focus in even more closely. The type of housing and buildings within the city. And the indoor environment.
    
    Asian success-story cities = overwhelmingly newbuilt stuff, latest climate control systems, fanatical dedication to hygeiene, etc etc. Epicentres like NYC and Barcelona have a lot of old quaint stuff that it is almost a matter of faith to not “renew”. Add difficulties in keeping the indoor environment optimum for suppression of viruses, because of the outdoor climate and the nature of the buildings themselves, and you have a petri-dish phenomenon.
    
    Another factor is the people (with official approval) acting stupid about the risk until very late in the piece.
    
    Germany too is probably an example of high standards of indoors environments, and responsible behavior from early on. What makes the difference with Sweden among the Northern Euro countries, is bad Rest Home outbreaks. This is irrelevant to lockdown / no lockdown.
    
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    April 23, 2020 9:41am
    - cmm
      
      “This is irrelevant to lockdown / no lockdown.”
      
      Absolutely bang on.
      
      The lockdown/no lockdown primarily influence the INFECTION rate, not the death rate.
      
      It is interesting that Norway, Sweden and Denmark have vastly different lockdown policies but almost identical infection rates.
      
      If Sweden has dropped the ball, then it is due to some factor other than the lockdown policy.
      
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      April 23, 2020 9:52am
I remember when

Australia only had 3 cases of coronavirus yesterday and is taking steps to remove restrictions. South Australian children off to school next week with MOH instructions outlining the belief that it is safe.
Their PM is off to Anzac Day dawn parade.
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April 23, 2020 9:07am
Belinda

It seems to be gathering momentum the idea of giving everyone in NZ cash.
Stupid stupid idea, most of us have hardly managed to spend anything in last five weeks, I just think more debt for our children and grandchildren to pay off.
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April 23, 2020 9:12am
- Cunningham
  
  Could not agree more! People need jobs to go back to more than they need cash.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:36am
- DeepBlue
  
  This is a point of difference National can attack now.
  
  Explain in soundbites, (not speaches Simon) why this is not appropriate e.g. ‘handouts will just go straight to the big Aussie banks’.
  And their alternative e.g. ‘$1500 will be saved by every NZer by reducing GST to x% immediately – cheaper groceries for all’… Or whatever the alternative policy is.
  
  And if they don’t have an alternative policy then they don’t deserve to be the government.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:11am
theoldbloke

Some observations re Covid19
While Everyone and his dog is slamming Swedens approach and referencing “”good”” Norways lockdown.
NOBODY is referencing Finland..!!! Much better figures and a PM who is a 34 year Old woman.

It also annoys me when Kiwi commentators in the rush to support NZs decision for the strictest lockdown in the world!!
Then cherry picking Sweden/Norway for their facile arguments

So what is a wider picture.

Using the cases/Million and Deaths/Million

No Lockdown
Sweden 1585/192
Belarus 771/6

Limited Restrictions
Finland 745/27

Lockdown
Norway 1342/34
BELGIUM 3614/540

and for a point of reference re the USA numbers hysteria. 2551/143
California Lockdown 952/36
Arkansa Few Restrictions 761/14

By the way. I think the numbers of cases is a strawman. Its meaningless to compare countries on this basis as it is dependant on the testing regime
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April 23, 2020 9:13am
The Boss

So, according to our PTPM those illegal roadblocks are cool and legal, they are only there to protect the community, nothing wrong with them if they operate within the law (yes, that is what she said!) and as long as the operators do not “overstep the mark”. Also, she has not had any complaints about abuse, intimidation etc, so what is the problem?
My understanding is that there are now two sets of laws in this country: One for a certain group of people and another for the rest.
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April 23, 2020 9:16am
- cmm
  
  How do you “overstep the mark”?
  
  Be white?
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:43am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Seems arbitrary marks have replaced law now.
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:13am
- JackRabbit
  
  That follows the well templated German path. Let thugs keep their guns, slowly allow them to help and then co-opt them for law and dis-order.
  
  One argument for ‘that’ group is that they are the ‘natural’ owners of the country and therefore have more rights. SA ANC arguement.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:05am
- Mark Craig
  
  I live up north and you would be hard to find someone who despises Mr Harawira more than me.I cannot abide racists and he is a proven racist. However I find it hard to fault the intent of what he is trying to achieve here.The old people ,kaumatuas and kuias are incredibly precious to the locals.Hell I am Ngati Pakeha and they are precious to me.The natives lost more people to Spanish Flu than all other s proportionally,so they are taking no chances.ps As an aside he was a leader of the Patu squad in the Springbok tour debacle in 1981 ,and as much as it pains me to admit he was a fearless rooster.
  
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  April 24, 2020 6:43pm
lastmanstanding

Do not fear loyal Nat supporters. At some point Cindys lecturing will turn off a number of voters.

There is only so much of a good thing and then it turns sour.

Even the sheeple will start to get pissed off.

And. When the unemployment numbers rocket and the lines at the food banks stretch around the block as they are already CV will be forgotten. But what will be uppermost is the economic carnage and daily reports of more businesses going to the wall and more out of work.

IMHO just as the CV modelling has proved to be hopelessly wrong so the unemployment numbers will be wrong. By a massive amount.

And the final nail in the COL coffin will be the economic and social costs vs the CV deaths. This number will be in the big billions of dollars per CV deaths.

And the sheeple will ask WHY.
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April 23, 2020 9:16am
- cmm
  
  “And the sheeple will ask WHY.”
  
  Only if it gets painful fast enough. Otherwise just one term in office will be deemed “unfair”.
  
  When the pain hits then they will want grown ups to fix it, just like the Clark/Key changeover.
  
  Then when everything gets comfortable and the memory of the pain wears off, we’ll get another PriNZess in 1935 or whatever.
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:30am
  - cmm
    
    1935, bah! Of course I meant 2035…
    
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    April 23, 2020 10:01am
  - gravedodger
    
    Oh I wondered if it was a backhand reference to the team Saint Micky Savage batted for, LoL
    
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    April 23, 2020 4:18pm
    - Mark Craig
      
      Yes of course I still have the sainted mans photo over my mantelpiece. … [Deleted – mod.]
      
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      April 24, 2020 6:50pm
- Ruahine
  
  National really does not want to win the next election.
  Sit back and enjoy the show.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:07am
RW Capitalist

Anyone else notice how dear old Jacinda’s demeanor changed when a reporter asked about the many doctors complaining they couldn’t get the flu vaccine.
The “how dare you”, look that came across her face. Followed by the curt answer…to the effect…”that is not my knowledge of it”..parliamentary speak for calling whoever said it …a liar.
Facade fading?
Q: Wonder how many will die of flu, because there aren’t enough vaccine shots?
Back to the same management as Measles and Meningitis.
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April 23, 2020 9:23am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  To be fair, some GPs are a bit confused about this.
  I got a text this morning from my GP practice advising me that they now have the flu vaccine and could I ring them to make an appointment.
  They did it a month ago.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:13am
  - Durden
    
    They never tell you how many they have, They are being drip fed stocks.
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:58am
- DeepBlue
  
  Not many. Flu is way down in NZ now and with all the hand washing, social distancing and borders closed probably won’t flare up again this winter.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:16am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    1.The flu season hasn’t started
    2. The flu, unlike covid19, is more dangerous to the under 40’s
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:20am
- kowtow
  
  Her first “stand up” as the briefings have been christened after the Clarky cycle affair was quite fevered fow a few minutes and at one point she actually sighed an “ugh” but carried on . You could see she really resented the questioning and quickly enough some apparatchik asked a Clark unrelated qusetion and got her out of the fire .
  
  I wonder who she was ? No doubt she will be forever on her christmas card list.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:31am
Maggy Wassilieff

Perhaps folks could believe that their local cafe/hairdresser/shoe store was on its last legs before the pandemic, but if their local pharmacy, or dentist or GP goes under, folks are going to demand answers.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/23/1139975/will-pharmacies-gps-and-dentists-survive-covid-19
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April 23, 2020 9:43am
- Libertarians are right
  
  So, we’re not allow to blame the Covid 19 deaths on the pre-existing conditions that actually killed them but we have to blame pre-existing conditions that may or may not have existed on the deaths of businesses. It’s worth noting of course that many of these pre-existing conditions related to this Government’s policies, just like its Covid 19 response.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:17am
- Swifty
  
  They don’t deserve to survive according to Deborah Russell, R and Martin Williams.
  
  The GPs and dentists are the authors of their own demise.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:18am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Dentists and Pharmacists are generally “well off” people so if they do not have enough in reserve to survive this lockdown, heaven help the many other small businesses who the Labour MP seemed to think should have had plans to survive a set back. This is hardly a minor set back.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:49am
- Paulus
  
  My wife has offered to cut my hair, which she in over 50 years, she has never done – so please please allow hairdressers to go back to work asap.
  
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  April 23, 2020 2:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Good news folks…

According to this Otago Uni Professor
there is an easy solution to solving all our coming economic and environmental problems…we just have to use the stars to guide our every decision

In the night sky we can see the Southern Cross, or Māhutonga, as seven bright stars – five in the cross and two below, the ‘pointers’. By using these seven whetū as a constellation to guide every decision and every investment from here on, we would be on track towards achieving a sustainable future together.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/2020/04/20/1133127/covid-19-has-nothing-on-whats-coming

(Personally, I’ll stick to consulting my tea leaves before I undertake any decisions or investments…)
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April 23, 2020 9:52am
- cmm
  
  The only reality I see in this is:
  
  We pay for this shit
  
  Maggy: D’ya feel like pursuing a professorship in tea leaves reading :-).
  
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  April 23, 2020 9:57am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Maggy: D’ya feel like pursuing a professorship in tea leaves reading
    
    Now, that’s not a bad idea..
    
    In fact, I have my first three PhD research programmes ready:
    
    *Biophysiochemical study of Mānuka teas
    
    * A comparative study of tea drinking behaviour in a socio-economic deprived community of Tairāwhiti, Aotearoa.
    
    * Indigenous tea-drinking customs of genetic cousins
    
    (Now, we should be able to run the first two research programmes from my backyard/kitchen table…as I have 5 different kinds of Mānuka in my garden at present, and I can easily go out and cut a bit of scrub off the local hills….
    
    I’ll get a couple of the neighbours over for afternoon tea for the 2nd bit of research)
    
    I’m sure a few of the neighbours wouldn’t mind a few weeks in Taiwan (when flights begin again).. we’ll meet up with a few of their cuzzies and have a cup of cha or two together…)
    
    I’m just putting my $850,000 proposal into the Marsden Foundation….
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:16am
- kowtow
  
  Defunding pointless academics would be a very good start.
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:37am
- rangitoto
  
  Should I apply for a job casting horoscopes for dear leader?
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:45pm
- John Warren
  
  Once I’d briefly read it it didn’t seem quite so wishy washy, but it’s still full of pie-in-the-sky academic dreaming. They appear have a lot of nutters at Otago Uni. Perhaps it’s all the sitting around winter bonfires singing kumbaya.
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:10pm
fernglas

Coronavirus death toll to date 122,000. World deaths 2020 57,750,000
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April 23, 2020 10:04am
- slightlyrighty
  
  I don’t know where you got that Covid Death Toll from. Latest I have seen is considerably higher than that. 183788 to be precise.
  
  World deaths this year so far is about 18million.
  
  https://www.worldometers.info/
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:36am
  - cmm
    
    Either way, we’re still talking about 1% or less of deaths.
    
    CV19 deaths are approx:
    half the deaths caused by suicide,
    a third the deaths caused by vehicle accidents,
    less than 10% the deaths from cancer,
    a third of the deaths caused by AIDS
    and half the deaths caused by malaria.
    
    Did we crater the world economy for any of those?
    
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    April 23, 2020 11:18am
    - kevn
      
      @cmm…. and add about 40 abortions daily.
      
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      April 23, 2020 11:28am
      - cmm
        
        We’re talking about worldwide numbers
        Over 13 million abortions so far this year. That is almost as many as all other deaths put together.
        
        Grannys falling off their perches in old age homes are also just a bunch of cells right?
        
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        April 23, 2020 12:07pm
oldfella

“Prime Minister, what can you tell us about this mysterious private jet that’s just landed in NZ?”
“Yes, so, did I show you this delightful picture Neve drew for me this morning?”
‘That’s lovely, Prime Minister.”
“Yes, so, next question.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/121202416/coronavirus-private-jet-lands-in-dunedin-to-take-mystery-travellers-home
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April 23, 2020 10:12am
slightlyrighty

I was chatting online with my Brother over Easter, and we were discussing the actions of the religious right in the US, who, against official advice, held and attended a number of Church Services in the US.

He said that we can predict,and expect a surge in cases in about 2 weeks.

Well, it’s been 2 weeks. Well, while we have seen a substantial drop in cases in NZ, Yesterday saw the highest single number of deaths in a day in the US, and today may be on course to beat that.

The US does not have this under control, and are about to re-open many states.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better, and the economic cost will be huge.
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April 23, 2020 10:12am
RW Capitalist

Think back, if you can, to the last time you went to a shopping Mall.
How many empty shops were there? BEFORE Covid 19.
and how many will there be after L3 is over?
How many cafes in shopping malls will survive?
Now multiply that by 4 (including the owner) and you have the unemployment from that very small part of the economy.
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April 23, 2020 10:12am
Iamright

Shock horror in today’s DomPost. Who wrote the editorial? Positive towards Simon. Someone must have got out of the wrong side of the bed. That writer clearly needs to be retrained so that only our glorious leader gets positive coverage.
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April 23, 2020 10:22am
- John Warren
  
  Under the new conditions of State support, his funding will be withheld until his narrative improves.
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:13pm
oldfella

SEEN ON FACEBOOK: “Just think how many lives have been saved by two things leftists hate most: suburbs and the car culture. And just think how many lives have been lost by things the left love most: mass transit and high-density urban living.”
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April 23, 2020 10:24am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Don’t know when the liquor stores will open. Bad experience with a large online outfit. My order took 16 days to arrive, so I discarded them
Another outfit (Brews Wairau) offers same day delivery if you order before lunchtime. That is service (even on Sundays)
Use Facebook. Like and share them, message them with name, address, phone and ID, they will contact you for the order. They ring 1 minute before arrival. All contactless.
That is how you do business
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April 23, 2020 10:26am
- alex Masterley
  
  I haven’t had the same experience. 3 purchases, one beer order from a major player in auckland, and two wine orders, one from the south island and one from Auckland. Time for delivery was 2 days, 3 days and 1 day.
  I only did the beer order because at the time we had theJacinda inspired panic buying at the supermarkets and the thought of standing in a queue horrified me.
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

May as well carry on dreaming. 10 reasons NOT to go to Hawaii:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUb-weK-_dI&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0Y_LIFlFWKdtDkPEQg_H6_Hi8cQmWanLYqq4R0nPLYRe3zz-L0IrufQ3Y
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April 23, 2020 10:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Been 4 times. Those who have not been will not understand how hard and sad it is to leave
  
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  April 23, 2020 10:52am
Philview

I noticed how Jacinda dodged the question last night about China’s role in this crisis. A significant part of the Global community are now looking to sue China. The geopolitics are such that New Zealand’s covert backing of China will have implications. She is walking a fine line.
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April 23, 2020 10:53am
- emmess
  
  Yeah, I bet it alot of it comes down to the influence of Helen Clark
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/03/coronavirus-former-prime-minister-helen-clark-commends-government-response-to-covid-19-pandemic.html
  
  I bet the UNDP and WHO are tied at the hip and just as corrupt as each other and all the other tentacles of the UN.
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:28am
kowtow

“NZ Police has apologised for the “poor timing” of sharing a Covid-19 awareness video shot in Arrowtown yesterday, after receiving backlash on social media.”

There’s that police singular again .
Funny old world we live in though . Cos of a virtual shit storm on social media they back down and apologise over a rather silly , but lame and tame post .

Surely they (plural) need to enforce the law , close down the illegal road blocks and apologise for aiding and abetting them.

And the so called fourth estate needs to go after them and the gubmit on same.Not bleedin’ cliamte change.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/disgusting-police-apologise-poor-timing-post
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April 23, 2020 10:53am
- emmess
  
  NZ Police dindu nuffin wrong (not in this case anyway)
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:21am
waripori

If there was any doubt how out of touch with business the Government is you wait until people figure out the five day extension to Level 4 plus 14 days in Level 3 takes us to the Tuesday after Mother’s day. It we had not had the extension to Monday night we would have had all the shops florists cafes and restaurants open on the Thursday prior which would have given all those small businesses a real cash boost.
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April 23, 2020 11:20am
secondcumming

When will *Car Dealers* be able to open again?
Not under Lv3 by the sound of things. You have to really feel for those guys….imagine what their *holding costs* must be!!

I hear there’s over $500mil worth of vehicles that have been left setting on the wharves – with more on the water.
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April 23, 2020 11:21am
oldfella

Just been talking to a local in Tauranga who says the Sikh temple in his area has been holding meetings most days. WTH? Cops have apparently visited the temple several times, but the meetings continue. Anyone know if mosques around the country are still holding meetings?
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April 23, 2020 11:25am
- John Warren
  
  Tomorrow is Friday morning. A quick drive to the Riccarton Pak n Save for some essentials, taking in Al Noor mosque on he way, might prove educational.
  
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  April 23, 2020 11:18pm
Fletch

Ouch 😆

https://i.imgflip.com/3tnjmc.jpg
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April 23, 2020 11:37am
Im Right

Now where are the defenders of Oranga Tamariki, or the ones crying out that children should not be taken from abusive homes?
The wee 4yr old boy who was beaten almost to death in Flaxmere has spoken a few words….the background of his abuse is reported below on Stuff, disgraceful!! (The assault happened in January, just weeks after he was placed back into the house with his parent(s)

‘He was admitted to hospital on at least one other occasion, with injuries including broken bones.

Newsroom reported after the first incident in June 2019, the boy was placed in the care of his grandmother in Auckland but Oranga Tamariki returned him to his immediate family in Flaxmere before Christmas’
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April 23, 2020 11:43am
Happychappy

CORID-19 Coronavirus: 50 complaints to Health and Disability Commissioner over Coronavirus.
Health Minister David Clark has asked Ministry Officials to look into patient access concerns raised by the Health and Disability Commissioner as a mater of “urgency “.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12326917
Is there anything David Clark can do right as his track record as Health Minister is in tatters after his inability to do anything right from obeying his lockdown to the Measle epidemic and Coronavirus Pandemic. It’s never his fault it’s always others.
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April 23, 2020 11:53am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ibsqZCMOE
Over 33,000 ‘news professionals’ have been fired, furloughed, or made redundant.
NPR is slashing exec pay due to ad drought. The MSM thought the CCP virus
Would destroy the Trump presidency.
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April 23, 2020 11:55am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVR3MjysKg

Did John Brennan Expose His Role During the 2016 Elections?
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April 23, 2020 11:55am
cmm

WHO chief pleading with Trump for money.

I hope Trump lets them stew a lot longer and attaches a few conditions to further WHO sponsorship.

No more can we have a WHO that is complicit in massaging numbers for political purposes.

No more can we have a WHO that thinks Robert Mugabe makes a good health ambassador.

No more can we have a WHO that denies the existence of Taiwan.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/121205710/coronavirus-who-warns-of-worrying-upward-trends-in-covid19-cases-in-some-countries
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April 23, 2020 11:58am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep, looks like Taiwan should be at the top table at WHO.
  
  The present incumbent needs to explain his unsubstantiated attacks on Taiwan.
  
  Coronavirus: WHO chief and Taiwan in row over ‘racist’ comments
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52230833
  
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  April 23, 2020 12:12pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Taiwan has a difficult path internationally. Most countries and international organisation have to choose between recognising Taiwan or recognising China.
    Taiwan was expelled from the UN itself in 1971. It has associate or observer status in many international organisations, including WHO.
    
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    April 23, 2020 12:25pm
    - cmm
      
      If they are a health organisation, focusing on health and not politics, they should not be excluding Taiwan because it might offend China.
      
      Telling the Taiwanese to make their requests for info, or whatever, through China is clearly unacceptable given the political tension between the two.
      
      Appointing Robert Mugabe as a Goodwill ambassador (done by the current WHO head Tedros Adhanom) was completely ridiculous.
      
      At a minimum Tedros Adhanom needs to go to rebuild any credibility.
      
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      April 23, 2020 1:26pm
    - cmm
      
      My grandfather was there for the forming of the League Of Nations (representing SW Africa – now Namibia).
      
      I think he’s be spinning in his grave if he saw what the UN is now.
      
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      April 23, 2020 2:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

As I predicted..

Our Government is bailing out the media…
$50M to begin with…

More $$$$$ will be on the way.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121178681/coronavirus-50m-government-package-to-help-media-through-crisis
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April 23, 2020 12:45pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  More here:
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/414946/covid-19-government-announces-support-package-for-media-sector
  
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  April 23, 2020 12:49pm
  - Old White Loser
    
    Now the Media can not claim they are independent.
    
    They are now being kept by the Government.
    
    Shameless
    
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    April 23, 2020 1:41pm
    - cmm
      
      “They are now being kept by the Government.”
      
      No, they are being kept by us – the very people they abuse most.
      
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      April 23, 2020 2:29pm
  - Miritu
    
    Its pay back time. Idolising the PM is paying off.
    Was this some of friend Justin’s advice to her?
    
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    April 23, 2020 1:46pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Will it actually give them what they want – or will some be disappointed?
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:10pm
- cmm
  
  Did RNZ get their $38M yet?
  
  This hand out will be drip fed to keep them onside.
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:27pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    So much for “independent” media.
    Is anyone capable and able to start a campaign to let media advertisers know that we won’t buy products advertised on “dependent” media?
    
    Ten years ago I would have given it a go but at my age not a chance.
    
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    April 23, 2020 7:38pm
- Swifty
  
  Sickening.
  
  This spells the end of free and independent news media in New Zealand.
  
  A sad and dark day for New Zealand.
  
  I ask you, who willingly bites the hand that feeds them?
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:33pm
  - MCos
    
    Magic & Newstalk ZB are unlikely to get rid of their popular right wing radio personalities
    
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    April 23, 2020 7:11pm
    - Nickc2
      
      They may have no choice. They are not the paymaster.
      
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      April 23, 2020 8:12pm
Suze Wainwright

Who does Matthew Hooton want to lead the National Party?

(Apologies – I have probably missed any earlier notices)
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April 23, 2020 1:13pm
- MrTips
  
  Defo not Stephen Joyce LOL
  And: who cares?
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:22pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Hooton asks on Twitter – can you really believe Bridges has received thousands of emails from small business owners?
  
  Well, can you really believe that numerous ‘former National Party voters’ mock Bridges and proudly claim ‘they’re now voting for Jacinda’ on Facebook (aside from also accusing a Maori man of ‘white privilege’)’
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:26pm
dave_c_

Talk about deliberately misleading information.
I have noticed that at the 1pm state of the nation address re Covid19, they show the totals for the various statuses of Covid
eg. NZ has 1498 cases
900 people have fully recovered from the virus
SO hang on a moment : It should read ‘ NZ has 598 cases’ ? shouldnt it

Talk about the scaremongering – pricks
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April 23, 2020 1:13pm
- cmm
  
  These are nasty people.
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:29pm
- barnacle bill
  
  I am sure they are not “Pricks” as you subscribe to.
  
  They are working extremely hard to get the country though this Covid Virus and
  the numbers of new cases are falling by the day which shows they are on the right track.
  
  Scaremongering. No.
  
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  April 23, 2020 1:43pm
  - cmm
    
    If they were not scare mongering they would have told Shaun Hendy to take his models and get out of the room with his tail between his legs.
    
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    April 23, 2020 2:31pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  And in the past 24 hours there has been -1 confirmed cases of the virus… ?
  
  It’s insane that we’re still in this incredibly damaging level 4 lockdown.
  
  5 1
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  April 23, 2020 3:23pm
gump

Bridges is a dead man walking.
3 17
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April 23, 2020 1:18pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Look, Squirrel!
  
  11 2
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  April 23, 2020 2:20pm
Fletch

First documentary on the origins of Covid-19. I haven’t watched it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le_rfTdayLs
5 1
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April 23, 2020 1:25pm
- Fletch
  
  Watched it now. Shocking. And it is backed up by published papers by the Chinese in respected journals. We know they were altering viruses to make them infectious to humans. Their published research shows this, and the top virologist their, a woman, even gave a talk on bat coronavirus cross species infection at a university! The Chinese are directly to blame for this, and the world is going to be stuck with this virus now permanently in different degrees.
  
  7 1
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  April 23, 2020 2:07pm
Maggie Pie

Fab to hear Shorn Plunket just say that Magic’s ratings now put them ahead of ZB in the 9 to noon slot (Peter Williams) and 12 till 4 (Shorn).

I did try to warn ZB months ago about that pair of naive sychophantic milksops they put on in place of Andrew Dickinson. They are sooo condesendingly sickly!!
23 1
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April 23, 2020 1:44pm
Max Howler

absolute compliment to Bridges that the labour party spin machine needs to roll out its dirty tricks this far out from the election.
Its a thrown gauntlet that needs utu
14 1
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April 23, 2020 1:48pm
oldfella

As they say in Hong Kong these days: ‘Don’t trust China, China is asshole’.
https://thenationalpulse.com/news/pompeo-china-has-still-not-shared-virus-sample/
10 1
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April 23, 2020 1:53pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  LOL thats nothing!
  You should hear what my partner sez about them after a couple of wines!!
  dear o’ dear 🙁
  
  9 2
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  April 23, 2020 2:25pm
oldfella

And we think the NZ media fawns over leftie politicians…
https://www.dailywire.com/news/cnn-finally-covers-sexual-assault-allegations-against-biden-had-nearly-700-articles-on-kavanaugh-accusations
6 1
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April 23, 2020 1:55pm
greenfinger

Brace yourself, NZ! This government will clearly be doing “helicopter” money in one form or another. All design to buy another another three if not six years of power. The start of another new rot and slippery slope, like it was with Helen’s interest free student loan followed by Jay’s free tertiary education.The Communist Labour and Green will bankrupt NZ in 10 years but not before they fly out to their United Nation gravy tr
ain. So, Winston, where the hell are you?
9 1
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April 23, 2020 2:18pm
- Max Howler
  
  Totally agree. Election bribes for all the comrades.
  I cant get out of my head the image that this is just like the WKRP turkey drop. Except its the turkeys doing a sheeple money scramble
  
  5 1
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  April 23, 2020 3:03pm
John Warren

I’m fed up with “our” fucking Prime Minister telling us what to do. She’s even telling us who we can buy our meals from. And I’m fed up with the Royal “I”. “What I need from NZers…”, “What I want right now…”

We’re getting right into personality cult material here, and it worries me that so many Kiwis suck it all up. This dimwitted, narcissistic woman has far too much control over our lives.

Rant over. For now.
16 1
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April 23, 2020 2:37pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Has the Prime Minister finally sacked David Clark and appointed herself to the Health portfolio? I ask this because she spent the Q&A segment of this afternoon’s media briefing cutting across Dr Bloomfield’s answers, and giving her own opinion on health-related matters.
  
  Or maybe she was trying to deflect criticism from the media bailout…
  
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  April 23, 2020 2:40pm
  - John Warren
    
    It tells us a lot about David Clark that he’s such a moron that the useless PM is thought to be a better option.
    
    But it also tells a lot about Cindy’s pathetic addiction to being front and centre. Butting in over Bloomfield like she was doing is rude, disrespectful, and immature – it’s something I’ve been trying to beat out of my teenage son.
    
    8 1
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    April 23, 2020 2:46pm
  - cmm
    
    This is all for #CinD4UN.
    
    Can’t have that waste of space from Dunners sucking up her camera time.
    
    3 1
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    April 23, 2020 6:15pm
- Poppa
  
  How she loves this power John
  
  We are confined to jail for one reason only….Cindy & her power craving
  
  I can easily see how Hitler did what he did
  
  5 1
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  April 23, 2020 3:24pm
Maggie Pie

A freind tweets 😀
For me – it’s defo ‘B’.
You?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWM-PMEX0AAV33V?format=jpg&name=small
8 1
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April 23, 2020 2:41pm
- Tall Man
  
  FFS Maggie, a debate is when there are possibly 2 sides to an argument. The A supporters have no argument at all.
  
  2 0
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  April 23, 2020 8:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Liz Wheeler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtIE0TKeB0
2 2
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April 23, 2020 2:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Liz forgot prostate cancer. I am on active surveillance for low level prostate cancer (2/12)
  Now on the back burner.
  Fuck you Jacinda Ardern. Small cancer is still cancer and any cancer does not give a continental fuck about Covid 19, or your socialist politics
  
  11 2
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  April 23, 2020 3:01pm
  - Max Howler
    
    I am sorry to hear that Steve – I wouldn’t wish cancer on anyone, least of all prostate, and I hope you all the best in the future, and that it stays in surveillance.
    
    5 1
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    April 23, 2020 5:53pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Hi Steve,
    
    Been there 8/12. Two tumours. Finally got the thing removed. I have a very good idea of what you’re going through and wish you the best.
    
    If you end up getting surgery I really recommend you research DaVinchi robotic surgery. After just a few weeks I was ready to go back to scuba diving.
    
    4 1
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    April 23, 2020 7:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Thanks for the support
    
    1 0
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    April 24, 2020 7:39am
greenfinger

The Capitalist Model – surround myself with people better than I am that will make me look good.

The Socialist Model – surround myself with people worse than I am that will make me look good.

Which model do you think Jac has adopted?
9 1
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April 23, 2020 3:02pm
euro2019

Well here we come home to the birthplace of Lenin.
I am wondering why has the COVID19 not exploded in Sweden as much and against all nutty predictions while in other countries with the lockdown experiencing massive explosions?
The Swedes have done it their way and not sacrificed their economy for saving a few lives.
I think all the experts advising various governments should be held responsible for their unreasonable forecasts including also all these governments which followed like a herd of sheeps and drove the world economy up to the wall.
Extremely well done.
7 1
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April 23, 2020 3:47pm
rangitoto

I see that the Tyrant Cindy the First is now dictating that laws passed by parliament regarding obstructing public roads don’t apply if she says so.
6 2
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April 23, 2020 4:51pm
Okahu

Just rushed outside to watch a plane flying over. Feel like an over excited midget cast member on Fantasy Island!
6 0
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April 23, 2020 4:58pm
- Poppa
  
  I will do the same when I see one here. We are close to a flight path in Hamilton
  
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  April 23, 2020 5:08pm
RW Capitalist

Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on the age group. The percentages shown below do not have to add up to 100%, as they do NOT represent share of deaths by age group. Rather, it represents, for a person in a given age group, the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19.
AGE
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
80+ years old

21.9%

14.8%
70-79 years old

8.0%
60-69 years old

3.6%
50-59 years old

1.3%
40-49 years old

0.4%
30-39 years old

0.2%
20-29 years old

0.2%
10-19 years old

0.2%
0-9 years old

no fatalities
1. Why are we frightening parents about return to school?
2. Why are we not testing old folks homes, when they are the most “at risk” group.
5 1
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April 23, 2020 5:14pm
- Poppa
  
  So according to that I have an 8% probability
  
  I think that is rubbish. I believe I am more likely to be taken out on the road or hit by lightning
  
  I can’t say win lotto because I don’t take them
  
  1 0
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  April 23, 2020 6:34pm
- MCos
  
  Kids can get infected and spread the bug around the family.
  As an example.
  The virus had also been spread to the five other people in the household of the woman who died in Dunedin yesterday, which included a toddler and baby.
  I’m not sure which one was first, but it could have been a school kid.
  
  3 0
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  April 23, 2020 6:37pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.boredpanda.com/where-is-waldo-coronavirus-edition-book/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
1 1
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April 23, 2020 5:33pm
Iamright

So the government has allowed hunting. What about golf. How f…….g much does it take to come up with a simple set of rules. My Labour voting golf buddies and I are getting horribly pissed off. To nick a phrase. ” let’s do this” !!!!!!
3 0
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April 23, 2020 6:32pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah..
  you and your bubble can go golfing
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2020/04/coronavirus-nz-golf-confirms-strict-guidelines-for-level-3-return-to-play.html
  
  0 0
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  April 23, 2020 8:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Death Threat against Simon Bridges and his family.

Hohepa Waenga has been released on bail after an appearance in the Whakatane District Court.and will reappear next month.

The Kawerau man allegedly posted a social media threat against Bridges.

He’s been charged with threatening to kill, or cause grievous bodily harm, to Bridges and his family

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/man-charged-threat-kill-simon-bridges-family
5 0
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April 23, 2020 7:03pm
info@cruzpro.com

New poll says 87% of the 600 people polled are happy with the lock down extension.

I wonder what percentage of them are happy being paid not to go to work and how they will poll when there is no job to go back to.
8 1
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April 23, 2020 7:52pm
Alan Matt

Refugee Charter flight?
UNVERIFIED.
Report that charter flight from Africa with 200 Ethiopian refugees on board arrived in New Zealand yesterday (22nd?).
Can’t find any corroboration on flight tracker or media.
Any way to confirm, eg refugee Centre report, airline company record?
0 1
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April 24, 2020 7:22am

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