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April 9, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 April 2020

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General Debate

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PhilBest

Today’s EXCELLENT long read, hat tip to Muriel Newman and her newsletter (again)
http://jdmichel.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2020/03/24/covid-19-the-game-is-over-305275.html
A few excerpts:
“…the same political or journalistic treatment applied to any episode of seasonal flu would terrify us just as much as the current epidemic…
“…We now know that Covid-19 is benign in the absence of pre-existing pathology…
“…We must dare to say it: it is not the virus that kills, it is the chronic pathologies that make a CoV-2 SARS infection potentially fatal to certain patients already heavily affected by these societal diseases, whereas it is benign for healthy people…
“…There is another problem: the rates, especially those for complications and mortality, exhibited day in, day out, are meaningless. As long as there is no systematic testing of the population, we have no reliable data to which to refer the figures we obtain (the number of reported cases and of deaths).
This is a classic in epidemiology: if you only screen for deaths, you arrive at a death rate of 100%! If you only test the critical cases, the rate will be lower, but still much higher than the actual one. If you do a great deal of screening, you will find many cases, whereas if you do little testing, the number of cases will be low. The present cacophony just doesn’t give you any idea of how the virus is really progressing and spreading.
The most credible estimates suggest that the number of people who test positive for Covid is far lower than the number of people who are actually infected, about half of whom will not even realize they have contracted the virus…
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April 9, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  “…most projections aimed at imagining the number of possible deaths are nothing short of madness. Many rest on an artificial, maximal “forcing” of all values and coefficients. They are established by people who work in offices, in front of computers, and do not have the slightest idea of the real world of field work or of clinical infectiology, resulting in absurd fictions…
  “…It is in this complicated paradox between the great harmlessness of the virus for the vast majority of people and its extreme dangerousness in some cases that we found ourselves stuck. We then adopted measures that were absolutely contrary to good practice: we stopped screening people who might be ill, pleading for the confining the population as a whole to stop the spread of the virus. These measures were actually medieval and problematic, since they only slowed down the epidemic at the risk of producing potentially even worse rebound phenomena. And too, they lock up everyone while only a small minority is affected. Conversely, all public health recommendations call for social distancing combined with detecting as many cases as possible, and confining positive cases only, until they are no longer contagious.
  Confinement of everyone is a poor second-best way to deal with the epidemic, one that is due to the lack of everything that would enable us to fight it effectively…
  Why did it come to this? Simply because we failed to set up the proper responses from the outset…
  “…Systematic testing would be easy to implement, provided it is made a health priority and organized, which the Koreans have done in record time. In Europe, we are completely out of our depth, as if we were living in another age. The authorities now understand that this is an absolute priority – in line with the WHO’s insistent recommendations.
  There is no difficulty in producing the tests: It’s an ordinary PCR [polymerase chain reaction] that anyone can do, the problem is organization, not the technique or the diagnostic capability…
  “…The problem is definitely us. France has plunged into endless polemics before anyone has even opened their mouth, while its Jupiterian president indulges in flights of antiquated oratory about the “state of war” while contemplating himself in a mirror…
  “…Once the emergency is over, however, the health and political officials will have to account for the fact that they turned out to be totally unprepared for a perfectly identified health risk, in a situation which is actually not very serious in comparison with the damage a really lethal pandemic would wreak…
  “…It is somewhat as if no-one, in area threatened by earthquakes, had thought of promulgating anti-earthquake standards for buildings, or procedures to protect the population ! And all the while, hordes of senior officials and academics were generously paid to anticipate those risks…”
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:00am
  - doggone7
    
    When you’re in solitary confinement, under house arrest, held against your will, you get time to ponder the big questions.
    
    It’s silly having billions of dollars worth of gear stowed away for worst case scenarios. Just in case. Or tied up in extra hospital facilities for the What if? Big One. Or even for the almost worst case scenario.
    
    It’s silly taking out insurance for worst case scenarios too. No-one would do that would they?
    
    And how come the decision makers always use experts who aren’t as expert as all the other experts? How come when they use the experts they do the expertise of other experts grows exponentially?
    
    There are probably some Peanuts cartoons there.
    
    If Muriel Fisher were still in Parliament and she had hordes of her party with her, EVERYTHING would be better, we know that. Things would not be as they are because coronavirus wouldn’t have got into the country or if it did, on day one it would have been dealt with out of existence.
    
    And not by stopping everyone coming in from overseas either. And probably not from the imposition of testing everyone coming in from early January on. There would have been creative solutions. Decent epidemiologists would only have needed to be consulted in very minor ways because Muriel would have had it knocked on the head from the outset.
    
    There are probably a few Peanuts cartoons and t-shirts in that too.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:11am
    - PhilBest
      
      Ad hominem. It’s not Muriel Newman actually saying anything, it is a well-credentialled French expert quoting other experts and pointing out some major flaws in “popular but wrong” policy approaches.
      
      The important difference with who is in power politically, is who are they going to listen to for advice? Are they going to default to “shut the stable door” lockdown policies instead of the “insurance policy” ones because it appeals to their inner totalitarian?
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:09am
      - doggone7
        
        The inner totalitarian being in charge is fine. As long as it’s your inner totalitarian not someone else’s.
        
        Muriel Newman putting up some well-credentialled French expert is no different than Ardern or anyone putting up their well-credentialled expert from anywhere.
        
        Someone’s got to do the job. Because someone else is doing the job automatically means it’s wrong, it should have been better etc. etc.
        
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        April 9, 2020 11:44am
  - Michael NZ
    
    So what you’re saying Philbest.
    Is this has been a good practice for The CCP’s future attack on the World?
    
    So we better up our game?
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:48am
    - PhilBest
      
      I think that it is a good idea to regard this time as a lucky “warning” and get the right measures in place for the real thing. It’s not me saying it, I’m quoting an expert. And we shouldn’t assume that its only in the realm of fantasy, that the CCP might just be doing trial runs to see how good its engineering of biological weapons has got so far.
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:05am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Good point.
        
        It has been said for decades that WW3 would be fought with ideas, and weapons that use biology, radio waves, the weather, and mass indoctrination.
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:47am
      - Nickc2
        
        Biological warfare has been around for years but under certain treaties, some nations banned it’s use but trained for the eventuality.
        
        In the case of COVID-19, I’m of the belief that the Chinese choose to give wings to a culture they had been developing but in this instance, that culture was given a ‘shelf life’ and the Chinese themselves had an antidote which they administered to certain persons and/or provinces in order to maintain the status quo. In doing so, I think Wuhan was both the location of origin and the sacrificial goat so to speak.
        
        I think this fiasco all started when the CCP realised the US was serious when it said it would impose tariffs on Chinese imports in order to render the trade imbalance neutral. This countermeasure was not what the Chinese expected. I think they believed the US would capitulate and in return, China would no longer hold the US responsible for opposing the introduction of Huawei into the 5-eyes 5G network.
        
        I think we should be asking our authorities these questions:
        When did NZ first know of the COVID-19 treat?
        How did NZ get to know of this threat?
        Did the threat come the US via 5-eyes?
        Who in the Government first received the threat warning and what did he/she do?
        Which Ministers were informed of the threat?
        Why weren’t border protection measure implemented on receipt of the threat warning?
        Why was there no catalogue of PPE available to the relevant minister(s)?
        Was the Police Commissioner warned by the relevant authority that what he was telling his officers to do had no legal authority?
        Who designed the framework for gifting money to businesses and individuals?
        Why are we now in week 3 of lockdown and there is no exit strategy published?
        Feel free to add questions as appropriate but these questions are not being asked by our MSM who should be holding this government accountable. Isn’t that the job of the 4th Estate?
        
        These are only my opinions. No animals were injured in arriving at these opinions.
        
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        April 9, 2020 11:53am
    - projectman
      
      Documentary on likelihood of Covid-19 originating in Wuhan virology research laboratory.
      https://youtu.be/Le_rfTdayLs
      
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      April 9, 2020 1:35pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You’ve excitedly lecturing us with your theories but this says otherwise. I think it is Vietnam with a low infection rate that fines or lockups propagandists, this NZ expert is more subtle:
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/kiwi-health-researcher-claims-chinas-covid-19-death-toll-at-least-30000/ar-BB12lqmI?ocid=spartandhp
    
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    April 9, 2020 11:55am
- Ed Snack
  
  Well, she’s quite wrong about the virus being “benign in the absence of…”. It isn’t. It can and does kill younger fit and apparently healthy people. It is more lethal for those with some specific ailments, but benign otherwise, absolutely wrong.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:55am
  - PhilBest
    
    The mortality profile is actually the same as the “all causes” mortality profile. So the argument that “it is killing young fit people” is a nothing-burger.
    
    If it is killing a lot of old people who were going to die anyway, it can also be killing some tiny number of young fit people who were going to die anyway. We just don’t have good general knowledge about things like young fit people whose hearts suddenly stop for no reason, for example, but there are a few, there is statistics for it.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:11am
    - herb1
      
      Around 17.9 million people die of heart attacks per year. You are correct in saying that a number of these will be young and fit. prior to having a quad bypass 3 years ago , I sat in the surgeons waiting room , surprised at how many fit looking 30 somethings were there
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:34am
      - PhilBest
        
        My own shock awakening recently, was the fact that a lot of fit and healthy sportspeople develop DVT’s and these turn into sometimes-fatal pulmonary embolisms. The specialist interviewing patients tells them this face to face most matter-of-factly but why isn’t it general knowledge??
        
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        April 9, 2020 1:00pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Are you quite sure of that? I’d suggest she knows a hell of a lot more about this topic than you and me. There will always be outliers, but it doesn’t change the fact that 99% of deaths attributed to COVID are “with” rather than “from”.
    
    Unless autopsies are performed, we may never know the actual cause of death, or whether COVID was a factor at any level.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:23am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Why would she know more than random Kiwibloggers, about anything?
      
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      April 9, 2020 11:07am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Lethal? The most lethal thing circulating right now is government-source propaganda. Many, many more people will die or suffer misery on that account.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:42am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      It appears you are 1 of the sources of propaganda:
      
      https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/kiwi-health-researcher-claims-chinas-covid-19-death-toll-at-least-30000/ar-BB12lqmI?ocid=spartandhp
      
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      April 9, 2020 11:56am
      - krazykiwi
        
        So let me get this right: China almost certainly lies about their death rate, and a kiwi researcher uses a his own model to confirm that China lies … and this somehow makes me a source of propaganda?
        
        If you still have a day job I really hope it doesn’t require the application of logic.
        
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        April 9, 2020 12:08pm
- theoldbloke
  
  http://jdmichel.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2020/03/24/covid-19-the-game-is-over-305275.html
  
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  April 9, 2020 2:16pm
krazykiwi

In the very near future we’re going to hear Ardern start crowing about how her government’s ‘strong, decisive measures’ have staved off a biological disaster, with 10s of thousands of lives ‘saved’.

This is, of course, a completely baseless claim, having no more truth than saying weeks of house arrest saved us all from an asteroid strike. Nevertheless, our sycophantic media will once again provide air cover for the lies, presenting correlation as causation. Sadly millions of unthinking New Zealanders will simply accept this at face value.

The truth reads something more like this.

☛ If you are now unemployed, Covid-19 isn’t the cause. You are unemployed because of the Ardern government’s response to Covid-19.

☛ If you are stressed, traumatized or suffering increased family violence, Covid-19 isn’t the cause. You are experiencing this because of the Ardern government’s response to Covid-19. (and please seek help.. don’t wait for a government service)

☛ If you have been forced to close your business, Covid-19 isn’t the cause. You’ve been forced to close your business because of the Ardern government’s response to Covid-19.

☛ If your health is suffering because hospitals have cancelled your outpatient appointments or your scheduled operation, Covid-19 isn’t the cause. Your health is suffering because of the Ardern government’s response to Covid-19.

☛ If you are suffering emotionally due be being separated from loved ones, Covid-19 isn’t the cause. You are suffering because of the Ardern government’s response to Covid-19.

You get the idea. Please, please, please don’t buy the line that all this hardship and pain was necessary ‘because of Covid-19’. That is a unmitigated lie. Spread this message far and wide, because the lies from this government are gathering pace, and for the most part, the media are not holding them to account.
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April 9, 2020 8:00am
- Rich Prick
  
  Couldn’t agree more. But I doubt the luvvies in the media will get that, they’re all too invested in the “crisis” now.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:27am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    The problem being, as KK states, the “crisis” is the panic, not the virus.
    
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    April 9, 2020 8:30am
  - Evadne
    
    The NZ media has, with few exceptions, descended into uncritical, blind hagiography.
    
    They are as much to blame for this social & economic disaster as Adern’s government. If not more – Adern merely plays the part they have written for her.
    
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    April 9, 2020 8:43am
    - brett68
      
      The media is only interested in money and staying afloat.
      They see that they have a better chance with Labour then they do with National.
      
      Maybe National needs to get in the game and start playing politics, use their business connections and start talking to who runs the news outlets, offer them a lifeline.
      
      National needs to start controlling the narrative.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:28am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Hagiography used to be reserved for those above 40.
      
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      April 9, 2020 12:35pm
- Simon
  
  “Please, please, please don’t buy the line that all this hardship and pain was necessary ‘because of Covid-19’.”
  
  Yep and anyone who thinks the Ardern government will then be able to white knight the economy should seek professional help.
  
  And the worse it gets the more hatred you will see from the left.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:43am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ardern is living rent free in the heads of lefties – they are brainwashed
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:44am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I believe the expression ‘living rent free’ is more akin to your attitude to Ardern, than to the attitude of her supporters.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rent%20Free
    
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    April 9, 2020 8:47am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Breaking news Mike. I estimate 8o% of NZ now has a negative attitude to Ardern and her lies. Send her some flowers, it will make her feel good
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:00am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        We aren’t concerned with her popularity, only your consuming obsession and choice of metaphors.
        
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        April 9, 2020 9:15am
      - Clyde
        
        Steve, I don’t know where you get your wild beliefs, but perhaps you have a very limited circle of friends. Trying to take assessments in the community is difficult enough to do dispassionately, but from my experience I’d say you need to sit down, take a few deep breaths and open the ears rather than your mouth.
        
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        April 9, 2020 9:25am
      - barnacle bill
        
        @clyde
        
        This is Mr Otto you are talking about there Clyde.
        
        He comes on here about twenty times a day with his wild beliefs and crazy thoughts.
        
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        April 9, 2020 9:43am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @Barnacle: so it’s fair to say he’s living rent-free in your head?
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:24am
      - barnacle bill
        
        @Loddenthinks
        Have you forgotten just what the Double Dipper from Dipton got up to ?
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:37am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Left turn Clyde – oh sorry you already did
        
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        April 9, 2020 2:43pm
- emmess
  
  I would partially agree.
  Obviously,we were going to take a massive hit, no matter what.
  But Ardern has exacerbated it.
  Watch for our unemployment rate to go much higher and stubbornly stay higher than other similar countries, Australia in particular.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:19am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  We are from the Government, we are here to help.
  
  Be afraid, be very afraid.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:48am
- Ipanema69
  
  KK your post is great and I agree the MSM will immediately try and push that line (and indeed are starting to push it now). However I think that you underestimate a couple of factors.
  
  Firstly in general people have an amazingly short memory. In 2-3 months believe it or not Covid-19 will be off the headlines, however the economic effects will be very much to the forefront. This will have an impact on the Ardern govt popularity.
  
  Secondly the reality is that outcome of MMP elections are decided by a very small percentage of swinging voters. The economic impacts of the lock down will be huge and ongoing. For example does anyone believe that the several hundred people let go by flight center yesterday will wake up this morning and think “you know what I’m voting for Jacinda at the next election”.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:49am
  - arkhad
    
    Be interesting to read Bob Jones on Monday. He says he will lay out the reasoning behind his prediction that the election result will be a landslide for the opposition. Trying to make money off his bet but no-one will wager against him.
    https://nopunchespulled.com/2020/04/09/prediction/#more-1219
    
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    April 9, 2020 12:28pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      My sensors warn me of a coming political landslide too. I saw it before.
      ☑️☑️Rout2020☑️☑️
      
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      April 9, 2020 12:38pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  What are you talking about? According to latest Colmar-Brunton poll 84% of people support what the gummit is doing. Game over bro.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:31am
  - Durden
    
    Depends on what questions were asked and ow they were phrased. If the questions was “Do you agree with the government’s response to Covid-19?” The answer most likely will be “Yes”.
    
    But if you asked “Did the government act soon enough ?” or “Did the government act proportionately (balancing potential loss of life v definite impact on economy) , the answers would be “No”. Comparing the responses would be more illuminating than what polling companies usually ask.
    
    If someone participated in the above survey and can remember the questions it would be illuminating.
    
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    April 9, 2020 4:25pm
- quarterpack
  
  Ummm…what about the rest of the world shutting their borders and effectively their economies in a similar fashion also?
  Are they all also completely wrong also in their response?
  If so you better shine your light on all those other world leaders, including my friend President Trump
  
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  April 9, 2020 2:38pm
PhilBest

NZ Government stat of the day: from

http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/environment/environmental-reporting-series/environmental-indicators/Home/Atmosphere-and-climate/influenza.aspx

“…in 2009, 1,122 hospitalisations and 35 deaths were caused by the influenza A (H1N1) pandemic, commonly referred to as swine flu…”

I didn’t remember that – did you?

I don’t remember anyone conflating opposition to total economic shutdown to avert those deaths, and avert the load on ICU’s, with “murder”.
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April 9, 2020 8:01am
- Ruahine
  
  This so called lockdown needs to come to a halt as quickly as possible as it is basically economic sabotage of the private sector. The sector that allows the country to pay it bills. The super markets have been open for over two weeks now and I have yet to read any reports where the people employed at the supermarkets and any of the peripheral workers have contracted the virus. The hyperventilating Arderb declaring that thousands will die turns out to be gross hyperbole.
  Many people ordered to stop work because of fears that to contract the virus you barely need to stand near them is actually false. If supermarket people are not dropping like flies and all those people scurrying around in the media have not all succumbed and the many other people still working and interacting with other people it is obvious that any continuation of lockdown is statistically not necessary unless as I suspect ulterior reasons are really at play.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:01am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  That was John Key bro’s fault.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:31am
  - PhilBest
    
    Brilliant satire, Sir!
    
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    April 9, 2020 1:03pm
Bobba Fret

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys……….how come we pay politicians good money and we get Twyford, Clark, Davis, Curran and Lees-Galloway?
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April 9, 2020 8:04am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Most really competent people would need a lot more monetary compensation than MPs get, to induce them to give up professions in which they can be confident of secure, well paid employment and instead take on (also inflicting on their families) the piles of ordure and job insecurity that a job in politics entails.
  
  We think it’s so easy and well-paid. Why isn’t anybody here doing it, then?
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:15am
  - Tall Man
    
    Some have. Rodney, David, Wayne plus David Farrar has more than done his bit or should we all aspire to public office?
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:43am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The only people who are currently entitled to be “confident of secure, well-paid employment” are government employees, including MPs.
    
    The rest of us are holed up in the trenches, trying to survive, you muppet.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:29am
- G152
  
  Peters!!!!!!!!!!!
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:24am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Expensive peanuts
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:27am
- stewmar
  
  how come we pay politicians good money and we get Twyford, Clark, Davis, Curran and Lees-Galloway?
  Because stupid sheeple voted for NZ First.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:37am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Stewmar
    
    Many of us voted NZF because National abused NZ in 9yrs of Govt.
    National took little NZ for granted.
    
    Plus they kicked all the big items that needed fixing down the road.
    They wasted Political capital and the Numbers…..
    
    Duh!
    But it doesn’t look like they have learned their lesson does it.
    When the One Politician tries to protect our basic rights by highlighting that The Greens are dangerous for Kiwis.
    The Green attack him….
    But Judith Collins (with Soiman’s say so, as he says nothing) stabs him in the back….
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:54am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Thanks for joining my Sheeple party. Come this election Sheeple will vote en mass Cindy – “She saved us from death”.
    
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    April 9, 2020 11:33am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      To paraphrase the old Mitre 10 advert – Bro; you’re dreamin’!!!
      
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      April 9, 2020 12:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The monkeys made a deal with Winston, so they got money and power.
  Remember come Election time, we have been had big time
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:47am
- stigie
  
  And don’t forget Mega Fightery..?
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:45am
- Hard Cheese
  
  That’s a bit insulting.
  
  …to monkeys.
  
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  April 9, 2020 2:24pm
MrTips

Wee shake here in CHC. Ken Ring was clearly on to something given the full moon last night. What was Annette King up to as well? 😛 😛
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April 9, 2020 8:08am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Is Ken Ring still a thing? Is the pandemic related to the moon’s influence over our gravitational field? If the moon can cause earthquakes, surely it is powerful enough to cause tiny viruses to mutate.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:44am
  - JackRabbit
    
    What drivel.
    
    Ken Ring follows the science that is also part of inherited indigenous wisdom among many cultures around the world including the ancient Maori. Ancient Maori used the same knowledge of the planets to know when to fish or not fish, irrespctive of what the weather looked like.
    
    He had written 2 years before the earthquakes about ancient Maori using that knowledge. He was wrongly discredited by Geonet because it made them look stupid that he had predicted the 22 Feb earthquake and they had no clue. he also predicted the large aftershock in March 2011, but Geonet pulled a lot of the large sensor readings from their website about 5 minutes after the shake to avoid further embarrassment. I know this because I was tracking the raw drum readings.
    
    Go back to studying Uranus.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:07am
    - Aliog
      
      You believe in naturopathy, and Ken Ring…you’ve established your ‘credibility’.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:21am
      - JackRabbit
        
        It might surprise you to know that a survey was carried out in 20o6 amongst 300 NZ GPs. 20% of GP’s practiced alternative medicine in additional to conventional cures. 95% of GP’s had referred patients to alternative medicine practitioners.
        
        Are you suggsting that 95% of GPS are actually quacks and 20% charlatans?
        
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        April 9, 2020 9:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        It might surprise you to know that some people took Ken Ring’s advice seriously, and acted on indicators immediately prior to 22nd February, saving lives and injury.
        
        The week following the Sept 4th, the patterns of after shocks was so specifically linked to the moon phases, you could set your watch, and your fishing calendar by it. For several days drum activity mirrored almost exactly the tide charts.
        
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        April 9, 2020 9:54am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        GP’s, faced with hypochondriacs and other irrational nutters look to find ways of getting them out of their hair. And it is a decent approach – the placebo effect (people’s belief in effectiveness of even fake medicine can produce positive outcomes) is a well studied reality, and it free’s up GP’s time to work on other people who’s problems are treatable and aren’t just in their heads.
        
        Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been proven to work? Medicine.
        
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        April 9, 2020 9:59am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        He’s established his credulity too – limitless, it would appear.
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:31am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Intelligent people take responsibility for their lives. They don’t behave like sheep, and accept whatever they are told, they verify the data.
        
        Oh, the current overreaction to the Coronavirus? Caused by unintelligent people, who followed like sheep and parroted “data” as if it was data, and not spin.
        
        Had the data been correctly analysed, NZ would not be facing an economic meltdown.
        … [snipped, Mod.]
        
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        April 9, 2020 11:00am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Believing and knowing are two totally different things. Dumb people ‘believe’ Jacinda that she has saved 27,000 lives. Based on my research and the data published by MOH, I ‘know’ that this pandemic has a mortality rate less than or equal to the annual flu.
        
        Be cautious about criticising things you know nothing about.
        
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        April 9, 2020 11:04am
    - Im Right
      
      Your an anti-vaxxer also?…just to add to your credibility you understand.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:57am
      - JackRabbit
        
        No. But then like most intelligent people, I vet what vaccines I will accept. The unintelligent just get the jab, because they believe everything the drug companies peddle, just as they accept that Jacinda is lovely and has saved 27,000 lives, and that we have to wait 18 months for drug companies to invent a vaccine.
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:56am
      - marcw
        
        It would be interesting to know what are the currently recommended vaccines in NZ you find not acceptable JR. And also, most people are happy to follow the advice of medically trained experts, as they recognise they are the best qualified to follow. Dr Google, not so much.
        
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        April 9, 2020 11:09am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @marcw
        
        Never hear of Dr Google. Who is he?
        
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        April 9, 2020 2:49pm
    - Ruahine
      
      Modern Maori also know where to fish and not fish.
      I will pass it on. If you are not catching any fish then go try somewhere else.
      
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      April 9, 2020 11:34am
- PhilBest
  
  Some great leaders of the past turning over in their graves perhaps?
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Also due to the moon phase?
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:15am
godruelf

I heard Genter has popped up again extending the priority period for the flu vaccine till 27 April. Spoke to the Dr’s earlier in the week as over 65 said we will call you back 1st May to book appointment.
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April 9, 2020 8:16am
- Tricati
  
  Yep, got the same message from our Pharmacy – I watched Genter’s spiel on TV1 this morning and it was all obfuscation, its a distribution problem not supply. She didn’t stop yapping to allow questions, and it was all BS – Targeting elderly and vulnerable to stop ‘deaths’ emotional BS, yet have to extend period due to ‘distribution issues. Like face masks & PPE they were unprepared. The spin masters will be earning their pay over the next few months for sure.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:59am
  - herb1
    
    She never stops yapping in interviews otherwise shell get asked questions she hasn’t the faintest idea how to ask.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:42am
- GazzaW
  
  I’m in my 70s and booked my flu jab appointment three weeks ago. The earliest they could give me way back then was 15 April. The senior receptionist told me that the stocks of vaccine were very limited.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:22am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Shame I feel for you.
    I got mine same day here in Seatoun.
    But didn’t get any Chloroquine 🙁
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:56am
    - Batman
      
      Probably a good thing, Michael. Medication should only be taken by those who need it, and when it is proven to work.
      
      Definitely not proven in this case…
      
      https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/hydroxychloroquine-trump/609547/
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:59am
      - PhilBest
        
        Read what the French expert I am linking to earlier, says about Chloroquine…
        
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/04/general_debate_09_april_2020.html#comment-2681544
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:17am
Happychappy

This is Jacinda Ardern all over when she has her back to the wall and knows better than everyone else even the experts.
Border block: PM plans quarantining ‘across the board for arrivals. So very soon we will see the Labour Party with Bryce Edward’s informing the Guardian what a great strong Leader Jacinda Ardern is without informing the same media outlet that Scientists and Political Leaders have been calling for this for several weeks. The National Party has also stepped up the pressure over mandatory quarantining through a online petition that has over 20,000 signatures but Ardern pointed out she has been planning it for sometime and the Goverment is considering advise on it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12323595
Is there no limit to the lies Jacinda will tell to take from others plans , like SirDavid Skegg, Michael Baker, Dr Ashley Bloomfield and National Party Leader Simom Bridges.
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April 9, 2020 8:16am
Paulus

To our friends –
“Happy Pesach”
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April 9, 2020 8:20am
Im Right

Will be interesting to see the polling numbers after the lockdown, will Labour get a big boost at the expense of National, or will they again be cannibalising their ‘own side’ and Greens/NZ1st down more.
I have a feeling the next few months polls will favour Labour greatly as the only MSM media we have (apart from blogs online) are pushing the ‘Jacinda is our saviour’ line. (But only if the lockdown is lifted after 4 weeks, any extension and the brownie points won by the Govt will suffer blowback)
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April 9, 2020 8:22am
- bruceavon
  
  Well no one here will want to believe it but I think Labour will be miles ahead, thrashing National. The internal polling will be why National are starting to complain about the election date. also I notice Peters is too. That is not because of common sense and covid 19 but political survival. The lock down shows every chance of success. We are only just reaching the point where the lock downs effect will be seen in them numbers. They lock down the clusters and seal the border and we are on track to come out of this well. Which is great of course. But politically for the right, tricky. They really have nowhere to attack.
  But that is only part of the problem. I have a wide group of colleagues, family and friends of all ages and ideas. The amount of people changing and offering either grudging or total support now to Ardern is pretty daunting. People who would maybe have been in the middle but also National people too. The polls must be terrifying. the only good thing is NZF must be done.
  There has been this idea that Winston is the one really in charge if this government. I never brought into it but it has just been blown out if the water lately. Haven’t seen him in weeks. Their only chance is Labour get so far ahead that conservative voters jump to NZF to avoid a super left wing Labour/green government. If I was National I would try to kick the election as far down the road as possible.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:46am
  - pdm
    
    Heard from Heather du Plessis Soper yesterday from Labours internal polling:
    
    Labour 49
    National 35
    NZ First 5
    Greens 5
    
    No mention of any other party and no confirmation of the accuracy – UMR are the pollster apparently
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:06am
    - bruceavon
      
      You have to wonder who the fuck votes for NZF? i don’t know anyone.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:28am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        I know a couple of silly old farts at the club who did. One of them is dead now so he won’t do it again.
        
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        April 9, 2020 10:05am
    - Tricati
      
      We keep hearing that ‘Labour’ polls have them way ahead, then the TV initiated polls come out and so the labour ones were crap – Why should we believe the labour shrills in the MSM now.
      
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      April 9, 2020 2:21pm
  - YesMinister
    
    Labour are polling strongly because people are scared. If Jacinda could call a snap election today, she would, and she would win. However, even September is the better part of five months away, and by then, NZ will be in such terrible economic straits that if National don’t manage to make an impact, then that’s on them.
    
    Then again, National have let her every lie pass, they’ve failed to establish a voice in the media. They’re boring, they’re quiet, and they’re letting it be the Jacinda show. Simon isn’t charismatic enough. Judith would probably be popular if it wasn’t for her troublesome double X chromosomes making her seem “bitchy” instead of “strong.”
    
    They better do some digging through the ranks and pull out somebody with gravitas and charisma. They don’t need someone to match Jacinda for feelz. They need someone who makes people feel they’re a safer pair of hands than hers, and they haven’t done that yet.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:42am
    - Im Right
      
      Trouble is YesMinister is that they left have laid a very nasty trap in that any pointing out of errors, lies/ommissions will be tarred with ‘politiking’ and smeared as not in NZ best interest blah blah blah
      Its a no win situation for anyone not currently in Govt.
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:01am
    - bruceavon
      
      They are doing an excellent job on the committee. But no one is watching it. I think that is why Simon Bridges needs to stay in Wellington. get the messages across. Bloody hard though. If he attacks them it could back fire.
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:10am
      - YesMinister
        
        That’s exactly it. I’m not saying National aren’t capable, or aren’t performing well in office. I’m saying the NZ public are on par with the audience at a Wriggles show and that’s why mummy Jacinda is so popular.
        
        If National want to win, they need some sex appeal. If I were a marketing person, and I am, I’d say they need their front man to be mid-thirties t0 mid fifties (silver fox would work), attractive male with a background in the military or doing something dangerous with sharp things. A man’s man, for women to lust after and men to want to be. National need to find their James Bond. Simon’s not it.
        
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        April 9, 2020 11:26am
  - Paulus
    
    How many Electorate seats does Ardern have ?
    
    8 2
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    April 9, 2020 9:53am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Tell me again why this matters?
      
      An equally dumb and irrelevant question would be “how many list seats does National have? “
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:08am
    - bruceavon
      
      1?
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:10am
    - marcw
      
      Labour 29
      National 41
      ACT 1
      
      List:
      Labour 17
      National 15
      NZF 9
      Greens 8
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:31am
- PhilBest
  
  We desperately need a “breaker” of the fraud that is going down. Social media giants are already being noted as considering plans to censor “misinformation” about COVID-19. Apparently Jordan Peterson has had something to say on it and it’s been black-holed already.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:51am
oldpark

The sound of rolling thunder is finally being heard in NZ . Yes Ardern and Robertson in charge of our health and financial well being have finally got the memo on how to stop the Coronavirus dead in its tracks arriving in NZ .
Guess what, the two we know best Peters selected once also rans from a defunct Labour Party Ardern and Robertson are pulling the strings. Mandatory Quarantine at our borders to swab the arrivals and put them in the compulsory 14 day and test them for the Covid-19 .
Let us hope that the crazy decision by Ardern and company to not have compulsory Quarantine at our borders much sooner does not come back to haunt all of us . Too little too late .
Yet it took Simon Bridges from National plus 40,000 signatures in one day to convince Ardern and company to just for once in the questionable way they have handled the virus crisis , to listen to some common sense . Special thanks to Simon Bridges on finally getting a positive result for all NZs.
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April 9, 2020 8:23am
- Justitia
  
  One hundred percent quarantine of international arrivals should have been implemented from day one of the Lockdown, if not before. The logistics would have been challenging but not impossible using the Armed Forces. We have already lost a lot of extremely expensive time. The emphasis now must also turn to mass testing to discover the true levels of community infection. This will enable us to determine the extent of herd immunity that may have already developed and to isolate and contain key pockets of the virus. This knowledge is fundamental to easing the lockdown. At the same time our medical experts should be looking to treat cases aggressively with techniques such as injecting the blood plasma of recovered patients and drugs like hydroxychloroquine that appear to be having some success overseas. A vaccine is simply too far away. Our greatest concern must be the potential for a significant rebound or second wave in the coming winter.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:40am
  - PhilBest
    
    Testing negative for COVID-19 would be OK to allow someone in without forced quarantine, wouldn’t it? The lack of testing is the more heinous thing than the lack of quarantine. The tests should at the very least be available for a co-payment if arrivals wish to avoid quarantine.
    
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    April 9, 2020 8:53am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      No, Minimum two weeks total quarantine on arrival and then test.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:23am
  - JackRabbit
    
    If you’ve ever watched a zombie or contagion movie or series, that have been around for decades, its a no-brainer that you shut the gates and carry out checks on people coming in.
    
    Ms Ardern however would not have had time to watch TV, she was too busy chairing communist youth meetings and being groomed for bigger things. Ms Ardern is not living in this world, and being responsible for her position. She is living in a socialist fantasy world.
    
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    April 9, 2020 8:59am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    There will almost certainly be a “second wave”of the virus because the panic has denied the young and fit a chance to develop immunity.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Arden told us “NZ is in lockdown. ” It seems she omitted the borders–lies by omission?
    
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    April 9, 2020 12:46pm
JibberJabber

David Horowitz

In practice, socialism didnt work. But socialism could never have worked because it is based on false premises about human psychology and society, and gross ignorance of human economy.

It`s almost like Thomas Sowell knows Ardern personally,

Every policy is a success by sufficiently low standards and a failure by sufficiently high standards.
The beauty of doing nothing is that you can do it perfectly. Only when you do something is it almost impossible to do it without mistakes. Therefore people who are contributing nothing to society, except their constant criticisms, can feel both intellectually and morally superior.
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April 9, 2020 8:24am
Vory v zakone

Pop … Pop … Pop Pop Pop is the sound of the international liberal numpties’ heads exploding when Boris Johnston appears from his ICU stay, and pronounces he is free of the rona, because he took the Dr Trump endorsed cure of HYDROXYCLOROQUINE !! lol
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April 9, 2020 8:24am
- PhilBest
  
  From the French expert whose essay I linked above:
  
  “…Professor Raoult and his co-workers are the best specialists in the world today in the use of chloroquine. In particular, he had the brilliant idea of testing its action against intracellular bacteria (which, like viruses, are capable of penetrating cells), in particular Ricksettia. The Marseilles IHU therefore has unparalleled clinical and pharmacological experience in the use of this molecule.
  
  Chloroquine has also demonstrated its powerful therapeutic efficacy against most coronaviruses, including the dreaded SARS of sinister memory. The Chinese clinical trial therefore confirmed Raoul’s hypothesis that chloroquine could also be used against the Covid-19.
  
  However, he was greeted as completely irrelevant; his colleagues denigrated his proposal from the outset. Le Monde, a daily newspaper, even went so far as to describe his communication as “fake news”, an accusation that was repeated on the Ministry of Health website for a few hours before being withdrawn.
  
  Prof. Raoult was however immediately authorized to conduct a clinical trial on 24 patients in his department and was called to be part of the multidisciplinary committee of 11 experts set up in March by the French executive in order to “inform public decision-making in the management of the health situation related to the coronavirus.”
  
  The results of the clinical trial were eagerly awaited, first and foremost by yours truly. We are well aware of how cautious one must be…The results of his clinical study came out on March 16, confirming that spectacular therapeutic effects have been obtained. The methodology is solid…
  
  “…The authorities and scientists therefore welcomed it with joy, you would think…
  
  Well, not by a long shot! The reactions that were first heard ranged from stupid to nasty.
  
  Admittedly, neither the Chinese studies nor the clinical trial in Marseilles has the value of proof (“evidence”) according to the criteria of scientific research. Replication of the results by other teams is required, not to mention a randomized double-blind study, the top of the pop of research methodologies.
  
  But what the hell! We are in an emergency situation. Chloroquine is one of the best known and best controlled drugs (in particular by the IHU in Marseilles). We can therefore be sure specialists possess very solid experience in prescribing it. Taking refuge behind procedural fundamentalism is ethically indefensible when we are talking about a drug that we know by heart, which has already demonstrated its efficacy on other coronaviruses, confirmed on this one by two clinical trial, and when lives are at stake day after day!
  
  Raoult noted caustically that it was not impossible that the discovery of a new therapeutic utility for a drug that had fallen into the public domain long ago would be disappointing for all those hoping to win a Nobel Prize thanks to the breakthrough discovery of a new molecule or vaccine… Not to mention the prospect of tens of billions of dollars in revenue to be made, whereas chloroquine costs literally nothing…
  
  “…Unfortunately, the situation is far less admirable among our leading experts. Medical research and medical authority are also often made up of petty, manipulative, dishonest or abusive practices of all kinds, as well as pitiful but violent clashes of egos…
  
  “…Raoult summarizes this absurd situation as follows : “There is a health emergency and we know how to cure the disease with a drug that we know perfectly well. We must be clear on where our priorities lie.”…
  
  “…Is this the loneliness of an extremely competent man?…
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:01am
  - Ed Snack
    
    There’s a lot of serious questions about the maths/stats and the protocols in Raoult’s paper, enough to seriously question its conclusions.
    
    There is quite a lot of anecdotal evidence for the benefits of HCQ in treatment, but also some studies that show no effect.
    
    I am still of the view that at worst it would have a positive placebo effect and it probably has some impact on viral load. But to be sure we do need properly conducted trials with proper controls and protocols.
    
    I just hate to get over-enthusiastic about something which *may* prove to be a false hope; it is nearly as bad as those who’s fervent hope is that HCQ is proven to be useless just so they can continue to sneer at Trump.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:34am
    - PhilBest
      
      Raoult seems to be dealing with the criticism credibly, even back when that article was written, he was addressing some of the criticisms. The more we know, the better the treatment can be refined, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth doctors with insights and expertise saving a few people meanwhile. And he’s talking about ICU treatment, not prescriptions for every man and his dog.
      
      We weren’t reluctant to put COVID-19 patients on ventilators “because it is an unproven treatment for that condition”. Now there is a possibility that ventilator air pressure at the usual levels, is harmful in COVID-19 patients. So should we stop using ventilators for criticial cases with new respiratory diseases until the right controlled studies have been done for ventilator use for the new disease?
      
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      April 9, 2020 1:11pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Add a note about HCQ, one of the major reasons it was tried as a treatment for COVID-19 is that it was trialed in 2003 or so against SARS, and was judged to have been effective then. As this SARS-CoV-2 virus is closely related to SARS, there’s a reasonable expectation that HCQ might work this time as well.
      
      There’s video of Dr Fauci praising the use of HCQ back in the SARS epidemic.
      
      A further note about the theory that SCV-2 virus affects haemoglobin, that paper is based on computerized modelling of the viral proteins and not on clinical results. Although very interesting it does need some more actual evidence before being taken more seriously no matter how well it appears to explain the symptoms observed.
      
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      April 9, 2020 1:22pm
      - chiz
        
        There is no evidence that SCV2 can enter red blood cells in the first place, and some of the discussion at the end of the paper is just bizarre, even allowing for language issues. Personally I would ignore the paper.
        
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        April 9, 2020 4:30pm
  - chiz
    
    Good grief, that essay is a seriously biased puff piece. Since Raoult’s original study came out people have been looking into it and him and neither come out looking good. Raoult turns out to be an egotistical braggart with a history of bullying behaviour who has been the subject of multiple investigations into his management. He got caught once dishonestly manipulating the data in one paper and was banned from publishing in some journals as a result. People have now found other instances, not caught at the time, where he manipulated data in papers.
    
    The original chloroquine study was a mess. It was methodologically weak and when people starting looking at in detail it turned out to be a morass of bizarreness. His followup study was just as bad and some people have openly speculated that we might looking at deliberate fraud rather than gross incompetence.
    
    People who want an alternative view on Raoult and his hydoxyxcholoroquine work should read this.
    
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    April 9, 2020 3:46pm
- emmess
  
  Maybe, more left wing activists will start murdering their husbands.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLGQLKNBS-o&t=8s
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:30am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Breaking News: Trump triggers all the TDS sufferers once again. This time by promoting ZINC as an aid in fighting CV19.
  
  The #FakeNews media are now apoplectic because of this “endorsement” while failing to mention that medical experts have recommended ZINC as a boost to the immune system, for many years.
  
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  April 9, 2020 6:55pm
DeepBlue

How come Jacinda used a company specializing in Asian macroeconomics to run the numbers re COVID19 to get the xyz number of deaths for do nothing? (To be clear my concern is the regional macroeconomics part not the Asian part)

They may have had the analytical software to run this quickly but I’d really like to see their experience re the parameters that were set for said analysis. And what those assumptions were.
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April 9, 2020 8:29am
- Nickc2
  
  Exactly, it’s easy to write a program that will give you the results you want.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:36am
MT_Tinman

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/police-to-arrest-easter-holidaymakers-who-dont-comply-with-covid-19-lockdown-rules/ar-BB12j9v9

You vil obey!
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April 9, 2020 8:29am
- Andrew Worth
  
  I was watching the coverage of this on TV3 last night, there were about 10 shots of police talking to drivers, in none of those discussions with drivers were the police adhering to the 2 metre rule, and none of the police had masks on either.
  
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  April 9, 2020 8:42am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    When every citizen has a cellphone with camera is slime travel, accompanying stasi, essential?
    
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    April 9, 2020 8:50am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Shouldnt sweat the small stuff, they rarely get it right. They talked about trucking busisnesses and showed a picture of a Smith and Davies Mercedes tractor from Northcote that went into receivership about the time the call was ‘comrade comrade comrade . . .’
    
    They make shit up.
    
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    April 9, 2020 2:02pm
- kowtow
  
  Plod will arrest Honkey for breach but assists Maoris running illegal road blocks .
  
  ‘Unite’ against covid , my fat white arse.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:05am
  - Paulus
    
    Having thought about it for a few days am not sure that the Maori road blocks may not be a bad idea – assuming it totally effectively isolates at least some people for the duration only.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:58am
    - Batman
      
      I have been against it on legal grounds but given the holiday weekend coming up I have decided they’re a necessary tool given the dickheads of the world seem to think going on holiday is totally fine
      
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      April 9, 2020 10:02am
      - kowtow
        
        Are they “going on holiday” or keeping an eye on their property , if the later I’d be very sympathetic .
        
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        April 9, 2020 12:18pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Certainly thieves are not taking the lockdown very seriously. My son had his bike nicked (for the third time I should add), and he bought that particular bike cheaply as he thought it would be too old and ramshackle looking to be worth stealing. Sadly not so.
        
        5 1
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        April 9, 2020 1:24pm
      - Batman
        
        Yep and an ED nurse had her e-bike stolen from Wellington hospital.
        
        Scumbags never rest
        
        4 0
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        April 9, 2020 1:28pm
    - Durden
      
      If the cops agree with the Maori roadblocks, then it should have been the cops that should have implemented it, with backing of experts that would have said — yes the risk for those people is high, and limited access routes create a good option to isolate and protect–lets do this.
      
      The fact that they did not do this suggests the Maori blockade is illegal under the law.
      
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      April 9, 2020 4:39pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Why is the Police Commissioner not being asked questions when the cameras are on him about these Maori Militia road blocks?
    Is it because of a complicit media? If so, hold these bastards to account.
    
    13 2
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    April 9, 2020 11:15am
    - quarterpack
      
      Road blocks manned by anyone but the police have got to be a bad idea, as they involve people intimidating others for what ever motive, standing in front of vehicles, banging on bonnets and can only end badly with someone being run over or bashed. Mike Bush seemed to tacitly endorse these roadblocks in his last days as commissioner
      
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      April 9, 2020 4:16pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Agree, and that’s a worry.
        
        2 0
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        April 9, 2020 8:08pm
- Ruahine
  
  At New World today an announcement was made that no alcohol will be sold on Easter Sunday.
  Bossy Mummy Ardern and her cohorts in action.
  
  9 5
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  April 9, 2020 10:46am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Isnt a problem for me. Wine fridges full to overflowing as is the beer fridge.
    
    5 0
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    April 9, 2020 1:33pm
JibberJabber

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10158152902714710&set=gm.2651910468417832&type=3&theater ???
10 1
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April 9, 2020 8:32am
Simon

Private sector debt in New Zealand stood at $456bn in March 2019, the equivalent of almost $92,000 for each of our 4,957,400 men, women and children.

https://www.noted.co.nz/money/money-property/household-debt-nz-levels-reaching-terrifying-heights

Comrades its over. There is nothing that can be done except bankruptcy and start over.

GFC was the warning shot. Nothing was done. Its over. Have a clean out and rebuild. Anything that delays the clean out will make things much worse.
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April 9, 2020 8:35am
- YesMinister
  
  These are the kinds of numbers the breathless morons who allegedly told Colmar Brunton they trust the government aren’t aware of. Apparently 90% of NZ’ers trust this government to make decisions. If that’s true, then the country more or less deserves what’s coming. That’s the kind of stupidity the sheep has when it trusts the farmer come time to go on the truck.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:11am
  - DeepBlue
    
    They have to trust Jacinda will save them, because they can’t save themselves.
    
    Jacinda is kind she will take care of our mortgage, feed us, pay our power bill and increase the benefit. Everything will be fine when the generous UBI comes in. We can stay home on the couch and become a community again. Arh no.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:04am
    - Ruahine
      
      Looking out of our windows at Teddy Bears.
      
      9 1
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      April 9, 2020 10:41am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        “We must display Teddy Bears to show our loyalty to the regime – or else!” (Said in a threatening voice).
        
        6 3
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        April 9, 2020 12:15pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It will be interesting to see the medium-term effect on our house-price bubble.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:20am
- slijmbal
  
  Yes $92K each but it’s distorted by debt backed by assets and some individuals with large amounts of debt. The way you present the number implies each person in NZ owes X, which is obvious nonsense.
  
  The only true figure is private sector debt to GDP, which is less than 1/2 the same figures for US, UK and Australia.
  
  For instance we own several commercial properties and have seven figure debt but also 6 figure income attached to this debt.
  
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  April 9, 2020 4:14pm
Happychappy

While experts like Sir David Skegg and Michael Baker have been calling for changes at our borders with more testing and quarantine for COVID19 it has been rumored that Bryce Edward’s has been posting fluff peices for the Guardian about how great our Prime Minister is. But really if it wasn’t for Scientists like Sir David Skegg with Micheal Baker the opposition Party Leader Simon Bridges and the face of the pandemic Dr Ashley Bloomfield it could have been a disaster with weak Leadership of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern not listening about people crossing our borders with no testing and no demand to isolate, with the Police not following up to ensure they were. So there are several people in the Health Ministry that deserve credit for how the pandemic has been handle especially those I have named but it seems those fawning over Jacinda think it down to her instead of the team.
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April 9, 2020 8:47am
- Ruawai
  
  It would be interesting to release stats of those coming across the border each day after quarantine is introduced and how many have CV once tested even if asymptomatic.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:14am
Manolo

No, do not cut the money! Oh dear…
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/08/who-responds-to-trumps-threat-to-cut-funding.html
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April 9, 2020 8:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Trump wants to cut WHO funding during a global pandemic?
  
  8 36
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  April 9, 2020 9:20am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    So what exactly and specifically are the WHO doing during this pandemic?
    What did they do to mitigate, early, the worst impact?
    Apart from playing politics and covering their own butt, have they done constructively?
    Who pays most of the money that funds WHO?
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:28am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Up until recently the US was the largest contributor to WHOs $4.4b annual budget. They contributed ~2.5% of that. What is a also interesting is that ~18% of Who’s budget comes from private foundations, and there is now evidence emerging that WHO shifts its policy and advocacy focus to align with the interests of their private funders. Big pharma are in this group, although they tend to provide funding in the form of free product rather than cash.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:47am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Bill Gates is another.
        
        5 1
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        April 9, 2020 12:49pm
  - kloyd0306
    
    ….the same WHO that covered up this Wu-Who-Flu by giving China a pass.
    
    Trump should send the UN packing to Brussels while he is about it.
    
    Both are useless organizations.
    
    25 2
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    April 9, 2020 9:40am
    - Nickc2
      
      ‘Useless’ is being too kind.
      
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      April 9, 2020 9:51am
  - Manolo
    
    Yes, he does and he should do it sooner than later.
    
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    April 9, 2020 10:17am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Yes, that is correct. Perhaps the funding could have been wisely used in advance of when it was actually needed? What do they spend the US’s money on?
    
    Trump should stop funding the WHO (and the UN) and any other supranational groups who are very happy to take with both hands, yet never have anything good to say about Trump or his country. No reciprocity. Then, watch them come begging. That will change their tune.
    
    4 2
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    April 9, 2020 1:44pm
    - david
      
      I can see it now. Our beloved PM announcing to the World that NZ punches above its weight and will step up to cover the shortfall left when the US departs. “Grant, find another billion will you”
      
      4 1
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      April 9, 2020 2:20pm
  - gravedodger
    
    What better time, the slavish cooperation with the CCP obfuscation and entirely oppressive behaviours has done the free world no favours and deserves the same sanction China deserves but will never be forced to confront.
    This OAP will be unlikely to make any purchases of Made in China product extended to good that do not state other wise.
    
    Mr commy hugger dont let the door hit your arse.
    
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    April 9, 2020 3:51pm
DeepBlue

Jacinda’s nightmare: on waking this morning Lord Winston reminds her we only wanted a little bit of socialism to swing the voters to the left. Winston reminds Cindy we still need capitalism to pay for our socialism. You’d better finalise that exit plan over Easter.
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April 9, 2020 8:51am
- PhilBest
  
  Lord Winston would do that? Count me a skeptic. His supporters thought he’d do a lot of things. Force National, as condition of a Coalition, to wind back the Treaty Industry, for example.
  
  How many times do Winston loyalists have to be bitten, to end up “shy”?
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:04am
  - Steve James
    
    They’re being bitten now. Pathetic old farts.
    
    6 1
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    April 9, 2020 11:36am
Maggy Wassilieff

Auckland Councillors squabbling about your and your children’s future.

Jobs versus climate change. The debate raging at Auckland Council

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323561

Gee, do you try and recover from our current National Emergency or do you waste immediate resources on a hypothetical global warming of a fraction of a degree 50 years hence?
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April 9, 2020 8:53am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Global warming fixed
  By poverty and starvation of the human race.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:25am
Old White Loser

Four Countries will be coming out of lock down before New Zealand.

Each one is doing it different, could be a pathway for New Zealand.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/europe-relax-coronavirus-lockdown-norway-denmark-austria-czech-republic
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April 9, 2020 8:53am
- PhilBest
  
  And they’re all countries that had much more cause to actually worry than we ever did!!
  
  21 4
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  April 9, 2020 9:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Won’t happen here. Supreme Commander has got a good taste of socialist control and will not give it up until the last possible second
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:07am
  - Paulus
    
    Steve
    The last possible control will end now at the end of November – and it will be your fault not hers.
    
    11 1
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    April 9, 2020 10:01am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah, my fault, or more than likely Trump’s fault
      
      3 2
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      April 9, 2020 1:02pm
  - gravedodger
    
    As amply demonstrated by the waiting until well into March the 14th to do what many would have decided days even weeks earlier over the orgy to bring Tarrant back into focus.
    
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    April 9, 2020 3:53pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Plan???
  Pathway???
  Words this govt. has no idea about.
  This was a very poor response
  Followed by a hasty lock down
  No account for impact (they used the word essential, with absolutely no idea of what that was and what rolling impact that would have)
  When you have a dictatorship mentality, as they do, you never need to ask:
  what if?
  What could happen if I do this?
  What if the best thing happens?
  (would they recognize it if it did)
  What if the worst thing happens?
  All they did was attempt to frighten people into doing what they commanded.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:23am
- kowtow
  
  Sweden never went into a “lock down”.
  
  They’re the one to watch and report on.
  
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  April 9, 2020 12:15pm
  - The only red for me is that of Manchester United
    
    Neither did Singapore who learnt their lessons from SARS. Singapore also learnt that a lockdown has bigger socio-economic impact on people lives and causes more harm than the virus.
    
    8 2
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    April 9, 2020 12:52pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Singapore is seeing a resurgence right now though. Also the kind of social controls available to the government in Singapore to trace citizens and to restrict their contacts is not available in NZ, or at least not yet. Singapore is also a place where mask wearing was “de rigeur”.
      
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      April 9, 2020 1:27pm
kowtow

‘Jokowi was apparently more concerned about the threat the virus posed to trade, investment and tourism. In February, when many countries were imposing tough travel restrictions, he planned to offer discounts of up to 30 per cent to attract tourists. His government even allocated almost NZ$8.3 million to pay social media influencers for tourism promotions.’

From a stuff article about how Indonesia ballsed up its response.

Question . How much tax payer money do these “social media influencers” get , who are they and who the fuck pays attention to them ?
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April 9, 2020 9:03am
Mobile Michael

Sanders ends his campaign. Just when no one had noticed he was still running.

Not sure Biden is able to beat Trump – he’ll close the gap in the South (but still lose) and not inspire confidence in the North to get the blue collar workers back from Trump.
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April 9, 2020 9:03am
- Steve James
  
  Biden will either be replaced before the election, probably due to DNC diagnosed health issues or the DNC will pick his running mate who will be front and center the whole time.
  Biden is toast either way.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:39am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Indeed, a couple of his recent (and totally scripted) “press conference readings” have degenerated to word salad. Poor old creepy Joe is deteriorating by the week, let alone the month.
    
    I can’t see him fronting up for any debates, he’s simply not capable. So who do they replace him with ?
    
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    April 9, 2020 12:14pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Hillary!
      
      5 3
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      April 9, 2020 12:58pm
      - PhilBest
        
        This is a question, not a prediction. What has Al Gore been up to for the last few years? The guy would be an instant idol in all the wrong circles if he tried a political comeback.
        
        5 1
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        April 9, 2020 1:15pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Killary – won’t be long now
    
    4 4
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    April 9, 2020 1:03pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Well the smart money seems to be settling on Kamala Harris, though others suggest she has already been offered the post of AG if Biden wins (which given her record should scare every young Black person in the USA to vote for Trump).
      
      I’m not entirely sure how Harris would poll, but she did very badly in the primaries and dropped out very early once her real record was exposed. I can’t see her as a vote winner, really.
      
      HRC, well, Batman will offer you evens on a sizable bet about that if you’re keen.
      
      Does anyone still think that Biden is capable of actually completing his run through to November, given his current apparent mental state ? Seriously, if you think so, watch videos of him speaking and presenting even 2-3 years ago and compare them to today. He’s very visibly in a serious decline in mental acuity. I think he’ll actually have a “health problem” after the convention when he is nominated so his faction can control who is the actual nominee.
      
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      April 9, 2020 1:34pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Your hypothesis is sound Ed. If I was a Democrat supported, I would like to see Tulsi Gabbard step up. Then, creepy Joe can die or retire whenever he likes.
        I must stress though, I am no Democrat supporter.
        
        2 1
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        April 9, 2020 1:57pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Kamala will be in the race if she keeps her kneeling pads on
        
        2 1
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        April 9, 2020 2:46pm
    - Nickc2
      
      @PhilBest
      The Democrat party is full of ego’s on steroids at the moment and they don’t need another like Al Gore. He was never a team player (not that Hillary was either). That said, Al Gore is probably too engrossed in saving the planet to be bothered.
      Being VP would interrupt his wealth accumulating endeavours, unless of course the Ukrainians can see a way ahead to split the payments between the Biden kid and Al Gore.
      
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      April 9, 2020 1:35pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is Biden even able to wake up in the mornings?
  First senile POTUS candidate?
  
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  April 9, 2020 12:50pm
The Proper Ghandi

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/campus/university-of-otago/academic-discourages-hasty-change

Even the cancer specialists now have something to say about why we should stay in lockdown. But he is an ‘expert’ so we must defer on any and all such matters.
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April 9, 2020 9:06am
KevO'Brien

A serious look by a good analyst:-
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/08/flattening-the-curve/
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April 9, 2020 9:10am
- cmm
  
  It is also worth considering that the implications of flattening the curve in NZ are different than for the northern hemisphere.
  
  If the northern hemisphere flatten the curve by delaying infections, they get some gain because they are now leaving flu season and later infections should be milder.
  
  For us it is the other way around. If we delay the infections we end up pushing them into our flu season.
  
  We need to be careful of how we interpret foreign data.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:33am
  - PhilBest
    
    This should be said more often, and earlier, on discussion threads.
    
    6 2
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    April 9, 2020 1:16pm
- krazykiwi
  
  From the article:
  
  Finally, I want to talk about that most mundane of things, the humble cost/benefit analysis. Draw a vertical line down a sheet of paper, label one side “Costs” and the other “Benefits”. Write them down on the appropriate side, add them up. We’ve all done some variation of that, even if just mentally.
  
  Unfortunately, it seems Dr. Fauci doesn’t do cost/benefit analyses. It seems he only looks at or cares about the benefits. He called millions of people being thrown out of work “unfortunate” … unfortunate? It is a huge cost that he doesn’t want to think about. He’s not going to lose his job. His friends won’t lose their jobs. Meanwhile, at the same time that he’s saying “unfortunate”, the mental health hotlines and the suicide hotlines are ringing off the wall. People are going off the rails. Domestic violence calls are through the roof, and understandably. Forcibly take the jobs away from a wife and a husband, tell them that they are under house arrest, that’s stress enough … and meanwhile there’s no money coming in, rent and electricity bills are piling up, can’t put gas in the car, kids bouncing off the walls from being cooped up … of course domestic violence and suicides and mental health problems are off the charts.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:39am
  - cmm
    
    Fauci is focused on medical issues: keep people alive, shame about the dollars. That is his mission.
    
    Economists look at the other side: keep the economy going, shame about the bodies. That is their mission.
    
    Different experts will have different suggestions and priorities based on their interest areas. This means not all experts will be listened to all the time.
    
    That’s the role of a leader: to pull together the competing expertise and make a picture that works.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:58am
    - trout
      
      I liked Richard Prebble’s take on this (in NBR)_; worth repeating;
      ‘This is why the prime minister’s statement “a policy that sacrifices people in favour of supposedly a better economic outcome is a false dichotomy” is so alarming. How is doing something safely (sic;opening businesses) sacrificing people? How can it fail to be a better economic outcome if more businesses stay open? A dichotomy is “a difference between two completely opposite ideas or things”. It is the prime minister who is claiming that health and the economy are completely separate. We will discover how the loss of employment, of people’s livelihood, of the dignity of work, is a health issue.
      There is an old saying in politics: “if you cannot ride two horses at once, why are you in the circus?” Politics is all about priorities, some of which are in conflict. It is never all one priority. Balancing those conflicting priorities is what politicians do’.
      
      17 2
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      April 9, 2020 11:55am
      - Tricati
        
        Those heavily financially affected, and aren’t mentally strong, will be a real risk of self harm – Then unfortunately, we will see the true human (health) impact of the governments decisions.
        
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        April 9, 2020 2:30pm
  - Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999
    
    I guess real life issues “isn’t his field”.
    
    6 2
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    April 9, 2020 10:02am
greybeard

Winston wants the election delayed.
He has been missing the last couple of months, and he needs more air time.
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April 9, 2020 9:11am
JibberJabber

LoL love it,
Liam Hehir on Twitter
Turkey votes for a delayed Christmas
Quote Tweet

Morning Report
@NZMorningReport
· 32m
#BREAKING NZ First leader Winston Peters says due to the Covid-19 outbreak he believes the election should be on November 21.
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April 9, 2020 9:13am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Maybe he’s counting on the SFO not working at the moment, and not being able to make a decision on prosecuting the NZF Foundation before then 😀
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:20am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Personally I believe that ALL elections should be like the Melbourne cup (held first Tuesday in November)
  and held, (compulsory) on the first Saturday in November every 3 years (actually I also think terms should be 4yrs). No playing “poll politics” using the the date to maximize your chances.
  Also no excuse to not be enrolled
  Early voting only in exceptional cases, if voting is so important, delay your holiday. After all, you know when the election is.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:53am
  - Batman
    
    I don’t think we need to do that here. Now that the established tradition is to announce the date at the beginning of the year, there is relatively little politiking that goes on with the date. The only thing you can really attempt is try to schedule it after a sporting event in the event that NZ wins and you get a positive bump from it.
    
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    April 9, 2020 9:56am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      That’s only been an “established tradition” since John Key announced the date of the 2011 election early Batman 😀
      
      12 1
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      April 9, 2020 10:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No need to delay holiday. Last Election we voted from Chena Hot Springs Resort – near Fairbanks, Alaska. Set up before hand it was easy, but slow with bad internet
    
    2 2
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    April 9, 2020 1:07pm
RW Capitalist

I see hipkins is giving away computers and books for home schooling….Vote buying…..
Begs a few questions.
1. When did he order these?
Since it takes about 2-3 weeks to
decide what to order
place the order
pay for it
organize the order
send the order (BTW airfreight…approx $20USD per Kg)
clear customs and MPI
deliver to the govt.
A: before the lock down?
Begs more questions
2. How did he get the money?
It’s not allowed for in the budget.
3. If this was ordered BEFORE the lock down, how long is the lock down to be?
Answer:
If the lock down was estimated to be 4 weeks, this is not for the loss in education, it is a bribe.
If this is a long term lock down, why are we paying teachers, or at least this many, to do nothing? When parents are effectively home schooling.

Or as I suspect, this is the wholesale corrupt purchase of votes.
along with votes for criminals
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April 9, 2020 9:15am
- cmm
  
  Happy Birthday.
  
  15 0
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  April 9, 2020 9:19am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Thank you.
    
    11 0
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    April 9, 2020 9:35am
    - Tall Man
      
      Welcome to the best decade of your life 🙂
      
      6 2
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      April 9, 2020 12:14pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        I told the policeman that 60 was the new 30, he gave me a ticket anyway.
        
        7 0
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        April 9, 2020 12:48pm
- BeaB
  
  And wait till mum or dad or big brother sells the computer to pay for drugs.
  
  18 2
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  April 9, 2020 9:43am
- Paulus
  
  Watch Trade Me shortly when these electronics get given out.
  
  15 1
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  April 9, 2020 10:03am
MT_Tinman

Some time ago my son introduced me to a credit-card holder that protected against accidental charging and theft.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/04/09/1121483/paywave-limit-raised-for-as-long-as-necessary

I’m very glad he did!
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April 9, 2020 9:23am
oldfella

I posted this late yesterday, but Maggy W. suggested it was so good I should post it again this morning. So here tis… 🙂

EMPLOYEE NOTICE
**************************
Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown in the economy, the Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 50 years of age and above on early, mandatory retirement, thus creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the Government to be considered for the SHAFT program (Special Help After Forced Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (System Covering Retired-Early Workers).

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the Government deems appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED could get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependents & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance).

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED or SCREWED any further by the Government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The Government has always prided themselves on the amount of SHIT they give our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your MP, who has been trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Sincerely, The Committee for Economic Value of Individual Lives (E.V.I.L.)

PS – Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas and oil, as well as current market conditions,
The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

Stay Kind
Love and Hugz
Jacinda
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April 9, 2020 9:31am
Happychappy

Who is financing these appeals and why would they expect and want the public not to know.
Labour Party Summer Camp Case:
dismisses suppression bid.
The young man who pleaded guilty to two assault charges in the Labour summer camp case pictured next to his Lawyer Emma Priest, wants his identity permanently suppressed, howeverthe secrecy of the 22 year olds name will continue until at least may the 2nd to allow the prospect of another legal challenge to the Court of Appeal.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12323390
Someone with lots of money doesn’t want this name to be released and I wonder why.
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April 9, 2020 9:33am
- cmm
  
  While his name is suppressed, he is also somewhat suppressed.
  
  If it all opens up, then a whole lot of embarrassing questions get asks:
  * Who provided booze?
  * Who was the supervising adult that went to bed and left them to it?
  * Why did Labour try to treat it as an internal matter and to who was involved in any conspiracies to subvert justice and tmper with witnesses?
  * How far up does this go? How deep was Ardern in this?
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:43am
MT_Tinman

I notice that the anti-everything-that-is-not-sycophantic brigade only get going about 09:30.

Are they ALL schoolteachers?
21 2
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April 9, 2020 9:33am
- RW Capitalist
  
  with nothing better to do.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:04am
Stu2

The USA University of Washington model has just been adjusted downwards for the second time

The central death estimate is now 60k in mid-May, down from 90k , then 80k

There was commentary yesterday that the original formulation was based on 50% of americans actually doing social distancing, but the reality is far better than that. About the only positive for what New York is going through
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April 9, 2020 9:40am
- RW Capitalist
  
  From what I hear, New York, but more specifically NYC,did it to themselves.
  100’s perhaps 1000’s of ventilators were sent, but left in a warehouse. While they attempted to play politics with it.
  
  11 2
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  April 9, 2020 9:45am
  - PhilBest
    
    You don’t know about this angle??
    
    http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2020/04/identity-politics-lied-new-yorkers-died.html
    
    7 2
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    April 9, 2020 10:27am
  - Stu2
    
    The NY death toll (currently 6268) is only exceeded by Spain, Italy, France , the UK and the rest of the USA
    
    Yes, what has happened in NY would have been reduced by earlier social isolation and shutdown, ventilators aren’t relevant to that
    
    https://ny.eater.com/2020/4/8/21213598/nyc-coronavirus-warnings-deblasio-cuomo-nytimes
    
    The only plus is that other states have belatedly introduced isolation measures, as NY couldn’t be ignored.
    
    12 1
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    April 9, 2020 10:37am
    - PhilBest
      
      The other lesson NYC and cities like it should learn: evacuate your elderly and vulnerable early on and you’ll have almost no deaths at all while herd immunity is gained in the remainder.
      
      What are oldies doing living near Wall Street and Broadway anyway? Must be “rich prick” oldies
      
      3 4
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      April 9, 2020 1:40pm
RW Capitalist

JA to close the boarders?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWy0jEaA2UU
Bit late?
14 2
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April 9, 2020 9:43am
- Tony Stuart
  
  A lot too late.
  
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  April 9, 2020 9:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  But but but she said she had done that – twice now.
  First two times were lies? Never!
  
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  April 9, 2020 1:12pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  still better done than not.
  
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  April 9, 2020 4:18pm
kloyd0306

They are us!
If so, why are the precious Muslims allowed to have their own butcher while the rest of us are forced to pay supermarket gouging prices for poorer quality meat.
Answers please.
We have been conned by Princess Frowny-face.
29 1
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April 9, 2020 9:47am
Surely Knott

The two mystery clusters in Auckland. What’s up with that. Yesterday the Herald said they would be named. Today the Herald says Auckland District Health Board is refusing to name them on privacy grounds. It’s a state of emergency and they have taken away all our other rights on these grounds. It now makes me wonder if it is withheld as the organisation and event having covid-19 wouldn’t have good political optics? It also doesn’t allow people who may have had contact with the workplace or event to identify themselves as part of the cluster or look for health signs. We need some details on these clusters.
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April 9, 2020 9:50am
- Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999
  
  Friday mosque?
  
  20 2
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  April 9, 2020 10:05am
- brett68
  
  You’re not allowed to know where any of the cases actually are.
  If people found out that their town/area had no cases, they’d be questioning why they’re still locked down.
  
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  April 9, 2020 10:14am
Vallager

Am I alone in feeling incredibly depressed by the sound of Winston rearing his ugly head this morning
26 3
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April 9, 2020 9:51am
Michael

I was a little surprised last Friday when I got a call from a nurse working at City Doctors asking if we [my wife and I , both in our 80’s] would like to come in for our yearly flu injection. I thought those injections might have been postponed until after the lockdown but no. So I booked us in for 2 p.m on the following Monday and in we went. Not a soul waiting in the clinic, the only person we saw apart from the nurse and receptionist was just one bloke leaving after having had a flu injection before us.
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April 9, 2020 9:51am
- Paulus
  
  We were the same – faultless injections by Doctors outside the Centre – doctors fully garbed.
  
  11 1
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  April 9, 2020 10:06am
- greybeard
  
  I have just rung Waikanae Health to book a flu jab, but the recorded message says they have no vaccines as the Govt underestimated the required number of doses. Come back after mid-April !
  
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  April 9, 2020 10:45am
  - greybeard
    
    Who in their right mind would downtick a comment like this ?
    
    2 1
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    April 9, 2020 7:12pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      No-one in their right mind.
      
      Conclusion: a left-minded person.
      
      2 0
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      April 9, 2020 7:43pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Lucky me. I rang my Med center yesterday to ask when. I could get the jab. Nurse said they had a cancellation, could I come in now? Yep. Done and dusted in 30 minutes
  
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  April 9, 2020 1:16pm
Tony Stuart

Will “We went hard and early” become 2020’s “Nine years of neglect” or “Sewage running down the walls”? It strikes me that the phrase is fast becoming just another Labour Party slogan, with little actual substance to back it up.

Going “hard and early” would have been a mandatory quarantine on all arrivals to New Zealand several weeks ago, not today. Once again, the PM is playing catch-up.
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April 9, 2020 9:51am
Inandout

Peter Williams had a first call from a builder who was positive because he had plenty of funds and was happy with Labour. This was followed by a very vocal retiree who praised the builder and attacked Peter for his ‘negativity’, because he dared to ask questions. The following caller was also a Jacinda person and I began to wonder, can calls be stacked by groups?
27 1
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April 9, 2020 9:57am
- Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999
  
  You don’t think Labour is trolling talkback? The downticks here indicate Kiwiblog is being trolled.
  
  22 4
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  April 9, 2020 10:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    This place is heavily infected with them atm
    
    12 2
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    April 9, 2020 1:18pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Probably being trolled, because a downtick could not possibly represent any sort of reasoned disapproval.
    
    2 7
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    April 9, 2020 1:42pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Sometimes there are downticks just because one is a knob with a history of knobishness . . .
      
      8 1
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      April 9, 2020 2:23pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You could work on your self-esteem…
        
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        April 9, 2020 3:38pm
- Ruahine
  
  Another one of Andrew Littles friends who could be voting.
  Utter devastation for this family.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/120882100/van-driver-was-wanted-for-burglary-when-he-hit-and-killed-father-cycling-with-daughter
  
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  April 9, 2020 10:14am
- Ruahine
  
  Labour has lots of helpers who are very familiar and practised around media. Many of them on full pay.
  
  19 1
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  April 9, 2020 10:16am
  - kowtow
    
    Helpers?
    
    The media is labour.
    
    17 1
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    April 9, 2020 10:54am
Swifty

A challenge one can try when one has a case of Corona:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=s83SS_1586207698
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April 9, 2020 10:07am
Jacinda's Prisoner #3999999

Humphreys on “Yes, Prime Minister” on polls and polling. Especially about only publishing the ‘last’ question.

Critical watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA
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April 9, 2020 10:16am
Dave Mann

I think this whole corona virus fiasco is just a huge glaring example of the fear mentality which has gripped almost all of humanity – fed by the ease of spreading pictures, messages and videos throughout the world in real time through the internet.

Climate change was the beginning of this…. but there were no actual pictures available of people who had been affected, let alone killed, so the totalitarians and nutjobs had to invent false ‘data’ to spread the fear.

Even without any actual visible evidence, the anti-humans were able to succeed wildly with the global warming delusion. They were well on the way to destroying human civilisation – but there were still pockets of resistance among sane elements of society.

Imagine the delight, however, when a previously unknown virus was accidentally released from a Chinese bio warfare lab! Now, by judiciously preventing even our health workers from obtaining the basics like masks and sanitisers and encouraging feelgood madness like ‘hug a Chinaman’, the transnational psycho elite have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, with tons of lovely panic-inducing pictures of people coughing and sneezing their way back into the middle ages! They must be literally having orgasms over this.

Out of 7.8 BILLION people, a staggering 88 THOUSAND people have died…. OMG we’re all doomed! This is too small a percentage to calculate on a standard phone calculator, but it’s still far better for the global fearmongers than ‘climate change’ isn’t it! I mean, now we have celebrities and sports stars who have felt a bit unwell, so it must be really SERIOUS, right?
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April 9, 2020 10:28am
oldfella

I see that Cindy has today announced that the Wuhan Flu has claimed further NZ businesses.
Our bra manufacturer has gone bust.
The specialist in submersibles has gone under.
A dog kennel has had to call in the retrievers.
The suppliers of paper for origami enthusiasts has folded.
The Heinz factory has been canned as they couldn’t ketchup with orders.
A tarmac laying company has reached the end of the road.
The manufacturer of food blenders has gone into liquidation.
Your local bread company has run out of dough.
The clock manufacturer has had to wind down.
The shoe shop has had to put his foot down and given his staff the boot.
Your local computer repair shop had virus issues.
The Undertaker lost the plot.
The tyre shop business went flat.
The fencing contractor got posted out of town.
And the launderette has been taken to the cleaners!
34 3
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April 9, 2020 10:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Another brilliant set.
  
  11 1
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  April 9, 2020 11:10am
  - oldfella
    
    Thank you, Maggy. Happy to share a few laughs because people are going crazy from being in lock down!
    Actually I’ve just been talking about this with the microwave, and toaster and all of us agreed that things are getting bad.
    I didn’t mention anything to the washing machine as she puts a different spin on everything.
    Certainly not to the fridge as he is acting cold and distant.
    In the end the iron calmed me down as she said everything will be fine, no situation is too pressing.
    The vacuum cleaner was very unsympathetic… told me to just suck it up, but the fan was more optimistic and hoped it would all soon blow over!
    The toilet looked a bit flushed when I asked its opinion and didn’t say anything but the door knob told me to get a grip.
    The front door said I was unhinged and so the curtains told me to pull myself together…….”
    
    20 1
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    April 9, 2020 11:24am
- Vallager
  
  our local bookshop has filed for Chapter 11
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:19am
- curry4me
  
  oldfella: Brilliant. Stealing that for my FB.
  
  8 1
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  April 9, 2020 1:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yup, thanks. That is going on FB
  
  6 1
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  April 9, 2020 1:25pm
kglm

Those who advocate restarting economic activity are accused by many of being heartless monsters, on the grounds that suppressing economic activity will prevent more people getting the virus and save lives. In reality, health outcomes and economic outcomes are linked. Without economic activity a health system will not exist. Health services need to be paid for just like any other service, or they will not exist. This cant happen unless people are working, producing goods and services and paying taxes.

The immediate health cost of the virus is the number of hospitalisations and deaths, currently very low in comparison to the number of known infections.

The immediate and longer term health costs of the governments’ reaction to the virus is:
* deaths and suffering due to current restrictions on the availability of normal health services (despite hospitals currently being underused)
* future deaths and suffering due to future health services not being able to be adequately funded and provided for, due to current and future lack of economic activity.

A cost-benefit analysis of health outcomes due to the current economic restrictions is not possible, because the needed information is lacking. However, I strongly suspect the health costs of economic suppression will vastly outweigh the health benefits.

Then there is the other effects on peoples’ lives, but that is another story…
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April 9, 2020 10:44am
Michael NZ

Don’t forget, life still goes on even amid COVID19 or Wuhan Flu.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/muslims_deny_aid_to_christians_and_infidels_during_covid19.html
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April 9, 2020 10:46am
oldfella

I see Wynstone wants to delay the election by a couple of months. I guess when your snout is firmly in the trough, you want to keep it there as long as possible.
15 2
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April 9, 2020 10:47am
- brett68
  
  Bridges needs to work with Peters on this.
  Try and get the greens on side as well.
  
  2 8
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  April 9, 2020 11:12am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    No way!
    
    5 2
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    April 9, 2020 12:56pm
    - brett68
      
      Don’t be so shortsighted, National has a far better chance of winning in November then they do in September.
      
      If you can get the majority on board then the government will have no choice but to postpone the election for another couple of months.
      
      Thing is both NZ First and Greens are looking at electoral oblivion and national sure as fuck ain’t going to be winning outright if the election is held in September.
      
      Which means only one thing, do you want that?
      
      5 3
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      April 9, 2020 1:14pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The less time the COL have to run the better.
        Look at the legislation they are trying to sneak through under cover of darkness.
        
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        April 9, 2020 3:21pm
Jack5

How does Stuff let this crap be published: …

“Maori health experts question Government testing” says a Covid-19 report by Maori journo Carmen Parahi, in Stuff.

It talks of an “expert group” set up by a high powered team of Maori health professionals.

The only “expert” cited in the report is “researcher Dr Rawiri Taonui”.

The report, with a photograph of Taonui, and repeated use of the “Dr” honorific, says Maori “researchers and doctors” are questioning the NZ Covid-19 testing regime, apparently because it is not being done on an ethnic basis.

The report does not tell the reader that Taonui is not a medical doctor. He was a lecturer on Maori cultural subjects at Canterbury University until he resigned in 2006. This was after the university had hired consultants to investigate allegations against him by five staff members. The allegations were of bullying, discrimination, intimidation and “consistent confrontational and aggressive communication”.

Taonui said the allegations were not the reason for his resignation.

In 2012, Taonui, then a lecturer in indigenous studies at Auckland University of Technology, was part of a team that said:

“Western accounting needs to recast the narrow, individualistic and economically bound concept of asset, claiming that much would be gained from recognising that there are things of value beyond those defined by individual property rights and economic reckoning.”

Taonui is described on the Australian blog site, The Conversation, as ” an independent writer, researcher and adviser on Maori, indigenous and inter-cultural human rights, and, equity, diversity and anti-racism.”

The NZ blog, Spinoff, last year described Taonui as, apart from having been at Canterbury, a former head of the School of Maori Art, Knowledge and Education at Massey University; the first professor of Indigenous Studies in New Zealand (AUT University); and a lecturer in Pacific Studies, Maori Studies and History (Auckland University).

Taonui’s departure from Canterbury University:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4366846/Outspoken-Rawiri-Taonui-resigns

The Stuff report:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120918482/maori-health-experts-question-government-testing
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April 9, 2020 10:52am
- Inandout
  
  jACK5, dare I proffer that a group of expert ‘high powered team of Maori health professionals’ could easily meet in a phone box.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:13am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    There would still be room for the drunk to come in and piss in the corner.
    
    4 1
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    April 9, 2020 2:32pm
mike45

Well, Jacinda and Team have done it again

Having announced that only emergency legislation would be considered during lockdown etc, the first thing they did was bring in incredible tenant protection rules. For example:

1 Incredibly difficult to get rid of bad tenants.
2 Tenants can go over 60 days with rent arrears before the Tribunal will “consider” terminating the tenancy. And once the rent is more than 60 days in arrears, how long will it be before the landlord can get before the Tribunal.
3 No rent increase for 6 months.

NB. Coincidentally! These provisions are in place until 1 week after the September election. It is possible that if Labour wins they will not remove these measures.

However, the latest:

The govt has 3 bills that are being progressed:

1 Sexual Violence Bill. To be more protective of rape victims in trials. First reading November 2019. Expected to become law in 2021
2 Protection for First Responders and Prison Officers Bill. More protection for emergency personnel e.g. Police, Ambulance drivers, firemen etc. First reading December 2019. No date for it to become law.
3 The Elected (Sentenced Prisoners) Amendment Bill. Returning to prison inmates the right to vote in elections. First reading 18 March 2020. Expected to become law – before the 2020 election.

That is correct. The govt sees returning voting rights to prisoners (sentenced to less than 3 years) to be a matter of urgency.

The first select committee hearing to take place on 18 April by teleconference. The time for hearings and submissions has been reduced from 6 months to 3 months to ensure it gets in before the September election.

Since when was this so urgent that it has to proceed ahead of other legislation?

Why is this govt so focussed on giving more to people who cause problems e.g. bad tenants and prison inmates?

Why is this govt focussing resources on giving smoking rights to prison inmates?

Why is the mainstream media ignoring this issue?

Having already failed to make it easier for violent recidivists by removing the 3 strikes legislation, Andrew Little is now focussed on more rights for inmates. Rape victims and emergency responders can wait.

He is an embarrassment to Labour, the govt and the country.
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April 9, 2020 10:59am
- Inandout
  
  Mike45, did you not hear that Winston wants a November election, his first choice apparently but voted down by Jacinda? Jacinda knows she will be toast by November because the virus will be out of peoples’ minds.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:17am
  - The only red for me is that of Manchester United
    
    No Jacinda won’t be toast. What people want is a sense of normality. Changing a government so soon after the biggest crisis that all New Zealanders have had to face won’t be what the greater public want. When lockdown is over the public will say that Jacinda and the government did what they had to do. Don’t forget that the simple statement of “be kind” resonates more with average people than any policy will.
    
    It will be a year after the election when the grumbling starts.
    
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    April 9, 2020 12:24pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Churchill got the arse card after saving Europe from speaking German forever. More people probably died in the east end bombing than will die from this chinese manufactured virus. I have a graph that illustrates my point somewhere . .
      
      4 1
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      April 9, 2020 2:37pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Quite possibly the British voters did not believe that Churchill saved them all by himself.
        A huge motivation for British voters in 1945 was the promise of a better deal for all.
        
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        April 9, 2020 3:42pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Looking forward to ditching the COL in September.
  
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  April 9, 2020 12:58pm
JibberJabber

Cathay pacific coming in from HK with another load of Covid over my house as we speak another, CES 779 from Shanghai about 4 hrs away.
Probably a good call to put us all under house arrest….?
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April 9, 2020 11:07am
- Inandout
  
  JJ, Jacinda is on to this, she is getting near to testing all incoming passengers, she is working on it, won’t be long now.
  
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  April 9, 2020 11:23am
mike45

What have we done to our wonderful country.
Just received from Employment NZ “However, workers who are compelled to work on Easter Sunday can get in touch with the Inspectorate”
Shades of 1950’2 communist bloc mentality and terminology.
And on govt language, am I the only one who finds it offensive that our govt leaders consistently refer to employers and workers.
Most people I know that are employers work very hard in their businessess.
Jacinda take note: employers and employees please.
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April 9, 2020 11:21am
- kowtow
  
  “And on govt language, am I the only one who finds it offensive that our govt leaders consistently refer to employers and workers.”
  
  Classic Marxist language. All about class war fare.
  
  “United” in the fight against covid , my fat white arse.
  
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  April 9, 2020 12:06pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Most employers in NZ work darn hard and many twice as long as their employees.
    FAIR GO FOR EMPLOYERS
    DOUBLE THEIR PAY.
    
    9 1
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    April 9, 2020 1:00pm
Manolo

The lying Communist Party of China:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/kiwi-health-researcher-claims-chinas-covid-19-death-toll-at-least-30000/ar-BB12lqmI

A health data researcher says China’s coronavirus numbers have been vastly under-reported, perhaps by a factor of 10.

At the moment, the country where the SARS-CoV-2 virus first emerged has reported a confirmed 82,809 cases of infection and 3,333 deaths from COVID-19, the disease it causes.

But Giresh Kanji of the University of Auckland told The AM Show on Thursday the true figures are more likely to be 300,000 infections and between 30,000 and 60,000 deaths – estimates he calls conservative.
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April 9, 2020 11:30am
info@cruzpro.com

The wife and I are both over 70 and called our GP to get a flu jab. No vaccine available. Will let us know when it becomes available in Whangarei.
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April 9, 2020 11:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Mine hadn’t got any available until after Easter. I may skip it this year.
  
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  April 9, 2020 1:01pm
The only red for me is that of Manchester United

Interestingly the SARS global outbreak was contained in July 2003 and since 2004 there have been no outbreaks. Scientists are still unclear what actually happened to the virus. MERS still does have small outbreaks. Since 2012 858 deaths have been recorded. We will live with COVID-19 just as we have with other viruses. The viral load could weaken over time. Until China closes its wet markets the world continues to be at risk from future Corona viruses and China does not feel a sense of responsibility of what has happened. With a much more connected world than from the SARS outbreak we all face the risk of something similar happening again in another decades time. Perhaps when the dust settles the international community could put pressure on China to close wet markets or at least impose some stricter laws around hygiene. I don’t see that happening.
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April 9, 2020 11:38am
- MCos
  
  “Until China closes its wet markets the world continues to be at risk from future Corona viruses”
  As I recall the talk was that the virus was transferred to humans who ate live bats. (Ossis Osborne used to bite the heads off live bats as part of his stage act in his youth & he’s still fine).
  From what I understand the real problem stems from the interaction of species of animals that have never been in contact before.
  This possibility isn’t confined to Chinese wet markets. The Chatuchak Weekend Market in Bangkok has a thriving illegal market in exotic animals they are kept in overcrowded cages jammed together in a section of the huge market.
  Many of these animals are infested with viruses that have the rare potential to mutate if the animals scratch each other and then bite a human.
  
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  April 9, 2020 1:07pm
curry4me

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15EsEz3X1WgfrmSvUT7jhVP1RblQ_tpTY/view
This might be useful for people who have little kids that don’t understand about the CCP virus.
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April 9, 2020 12:33pm
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/04/08/exclusive-hungarys-pro-family-policy-working-births-up-9-4-per-cent/
Hungary has a pro-family policy. Births are up 9%. Marriages are up, and the number of children per woman is rising. The government has been lectured and stigmatized by the usual suspects.
7 2
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April 9, 2020 12:33pm
- cmm
  
  Nobody ever wags a finger in Africa or the Middle East.
  
  5 2
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  April 9, 2020 1:23pm
  - cmm
    
    Hey PriNZess you’re being shown up by a shitholistan!
    
    A government that is 70th on the World Corruption Index (South Africa) shows up a government at number 1 (NZ).
    
    South African Minister breaks lockdown rules:
    * President says no one, including the minister is above the law.
    * The minister must face the same consequences as everyone else and will be facing court.
    * Minister must give a public apology.
    * Minister stood down for 2 months (one month unpaid).
    
    Is this what we really strive for? Is this really the sort of corruption you want to be known for?
    
    https://youtu.be/xk5QpAxELU0?t=90
    
    6 1
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    April 9, 2020 3:00pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0M5uTCt3g4
Bernie has suspended his campaign. He won a moral victory though/sarc. He will try to influence the convention by using his delegates.
3 3
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April 9, 2020 12:34pm
RW Capitalist

Q;
They are promoting this antibody test, to prove immunity after you have had Covid 19.
To determine whether it is “safe” for you to go back to work.
If you have quarantined yourself so well that you didn’t get it. Will they not allow you back to work, until you get it and get over it?
Does this indicate that lock down (at least partial) will not end till everyone has had it?
Will those without antibodies, have to wear a “yellow star” or something similar, until they have antibodies?
9 1
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April 9, 2020 12:44pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Tattooed serial number on your forearm?
  
  5 1
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  April 9, 2020 1:55pm
Jack5

Jacinderella is winning ground in the international PR war, as should a politician with a bachelor’s degree in communications and international success in youth socialism.

This impresses New Zealanders. Remote islanders, we’re overly sensitive to what foreigners think of us. Overseas praise of New Zealanders is like a snake charmer’s flute to a (little) cobra.

As well as the Guardian providing near-daily reports – even if mostly only in its phoney “NZ edition” – we have Giovanni Torre, an Australian free-lance (self-employed) journo writing her up in the Telegraph, and a New Zealand fan cheering her on in the Washington Post.

Torre seems to be a decent bloke, but his politics are evident in his voluntary work. Organisations he helps include Amnesty International as well as the Red Cross “soup patrol”, and the “Australian College of Community and Disability Practitioners”, which is a trade union – a branch of the Australian Services Union.

The Washington Post report was by Anna Fifield, a New Zealander who heads the Post’s Beijing bureau. She wrote from New Zealand, which she says she still calls home after 20 years abroad.

Fifield has achieved some prominence as an authority on North Korea.

Fifield began her career at the Rotorua Post, then worked in Britain and the U.S. for the Financial Times.

When it comes to Ardern, Fifield’s views are in line with those of the ultra-liberal Washington Post.
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April 9, 2020 1:04pm
- The only red for me is that of Manchester United
  
  Fified’s non fiction book on North Korea and Kim Jong Un is the best book on North Korea in many years. I’ve read a few. She had new information about the workings of the party and she examined the meetings between Kim and Trump. If you are interested in DPRK then this book is a good place to start. “The Great Successor: the divinely perfect destiny of brilliant comrade Kim Jong Un”.
  
  It’s more than likely that CVD-19 is inside North Korea. Time will tell how much damage it has caused. When North Korea starts launching missiles we’ll know that they will be after aid. Medical aid.
  
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  April 9, 2020 3:15pm
graham

Bwa ha ha!!! You tell ’em mate!

“the breakfast news here (NZ)is like a sixth form experiment compared to Good Morning Britain”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120720907/uk-man-stranded-in-new-zealand-laments-local-tv-its-like-a-sixth-form-experiment

A British coupke stuck here find out what the rest of us already know:

“The breakfast news here is like a sixth form experiment compared to Good Morning Britain … It really is desperate. Piers Morgan is a God compared to what we are looking at … there are about three local channels here that play things like Love Island Australia repeatedly.”
15 1
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April 9, 2020 1:06pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Love Island Australia repeatedly.”
  they are mistaken, that is the news.
  
  7 1
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  April 9, 2020 1:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  TV1 breakfast is play school. The only reason I watch is because the ‘speaker of the house’ insists.
  Fucking wholesale rubbish
  
  10 3
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  April 9, 2020 1:33pm
RW Capitalist

tested under 4000 again today.
So just another 500 days before we have tested 1/2 the population, and can say most have been tested.
Absolutely no self awareness, tat with such a low number being tested per day, the number of confirmed cases on a daily basis is meaningless.
10 2
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April 9, 2020 1:11pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  To an extent it doesn’t matter, quarantines work with or without testing, so even the anonymous asymptomatic carriers will be doing minimal spreading.
  
  The rate of drop off in numbers is heartening. Halving in 3 days. That could conceivably get us to near zero in 2 weeks – and if it is possible to achieve that, eradication, with a few more days lockdown it would be worth it. Now is the time to be super-hard on isolation measures to prevent any and all transmission.
  
  And govt has (6 weeks late) finally instituted mandatory 2 week quarantines for arrivals. Halle-fucking-lujah.
  
  8 2
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  April 9, 2020 1:33pm
- Stu2
  
  The antibody test will be far more revelant to large scale testing, determining immunity levels
  
  6 1
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  April 9, 2020 1:45pm
Critical Thinker

NZ on day 15 of the dystopian lockdown:
992 confirmed cases of the China Coronavirus (23 new).
317 recovered.
12 currently in hospital. 4 of them are in ICU.
1 died with the China Coronavirus. (73 year old woman, that already had an underlying chronic health condition, whom refused to be put on a ventilator).

It’s unarguably time to downgrade this lockdown to level 3, and properly secure our borders. As this extreme level 4 lockdown is proving to be more devastating than the China Coronavirus.
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April 9, 2020 1:20pm
- cmm
  
  To be fair to the 73 year old lady that died, being on a ventilator with COPD (aka Emphysema) is pretty shitty.
  
  Ventilation only has about 50% success rate on bad respiratory conditions like Covid patients with complications (they pretty much ALL have complications). My understanding is that it is worse for people with COPD, so, maybe, the ventilator would only have given her a 20% chance of survival. Then what?
  
  Having survived Covid with COPD her breathing would have been even worse than it was already. Crap life.
  
  If you’re literally gasping your last, then it is made far worse by being on a ventilator. I think I’d make the same choice as her.
  
  While I am not a doctor, I have done quite a bit of study on how ventilators work and their use with various patient profiles. I defer to medical staff who have more experience in this field than I.
  
  5 1
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  April 9, 2020 2:05pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    She refused ventilation.
    
    6 1
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    April 9, 2020 3:13pm
    - cmm
      
      Well done. Gold star.
      Both Critical and I just said that.
      
      5 0
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      April 9, 2020 4:03pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Correct. She was on the way out without COVID-19. Why she was included in the virus statistics beats me. There must be some obscure political reason.
      
      3 1
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      April 9, 2020 4:14pm
- rangitoto
  
  The lockdown has probably killed more via suicide than the virus ever will.
  
  9 1
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  April 9, 2020 2:10pm
  - cmm
    
    Yup, one about 2.5 km from me.
    
    5 1
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    April 9, 2020 3:03pm
    - tf78
      
      cmm – I’m so sorry to here that, it just shows how important it is to keep in touch with family, friends and neighbours in times such as these.
      
      3 0
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      April 9, 2020 6:36pm
godruelf

Reading about long supermarket queues today was this a result of another half baked decision by Cindy to only open Supermarkets on Sunday not showing great experience in flattening demand curves
10 2
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April 9, 2020 1:21pm
RW Capitalist

So this is wrong:
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/07/new-zealand-ironsand-waihopai-nsa-gcsb/
But there is an app. to determine the location of 2 people talking to each other on their cell phones.
To “contact trace” for “health reasons”.
How is this not the collection of metadata?
In fact it is more insidious than just metadata.
4 1
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April 9, 2020 1:25pm
RW Capitalist

Tone JA conference…on now.
Lock down will be longer.
3 2
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April 9, 2020 1:25pm
RW Capitalist

JA still lying about being “early” with their reaction to this.
Closed boarders should have been the FIRST thing done, not nearly the last.
She said their were too many returners to NZ than hotel beds for them.
Who said anything about hotels?
Can’t use motels, they are filled with the extra homeless they created before this covid 19 thingy.
We have air bases and army bases.
We have the ability to turn shipping containers into rooms (for prisoners).
14 1
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April 9, 2020 1:29pm
- cmm
  
  Its still good weather out there. What’s wrong with tents?
  
  My family camped in inland Canterbury during March/April while we were between houses after the EQ. What’s wrong with people these days?
  
  9 1
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  April 9, 2020 1:53pm
- Ruahine
  
  Plus all those empty campervans. The women is mendacious or just plain ignorant.
  
  10 1
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  April 9, 2020 2:03pm
- Nickc2
  
  Exactly, the military has plenty of tents. The Government expect military personnel to live in tents so what’s the problem? The Army also have portable Cooking facilities and porta loos are not a problem either.
  
  8 1
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  April 9, 2020 2:18pm
cmm

Fake cop

https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/z/z/p/b/v/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240×700.1zzuxz.png/1586396306594.jpg

No tats.
5 2
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April 9, 2020 1:42pm
bruceavon

29. Probably the first result that can be directly attributed to the lock down. So it’s working. Plus quarantine the border. Good. And an app. I have been saying they need an app for weeks. smart.
Ok. Let’s gets out of lock down now. No excuse for going over a month. At least open some more shops? Butchers? Green grocers? Stop the supermarket madness. Mitre 10? I need some paint and wood. pretty good result for us though. better than almost every country I can think of. This is going to drag on for months in the UK and the US.
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April 9, 2020 1:42pm
emmess

The government finally announces a quarantine for returning Kiwis, which what they should have done, at least three weeks ago.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323799
12 1
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April 9, 2020 1:44pm
cmm

According to stuff:

“Businesses being asked to prepare now for any alert level”

How clueless are these people?

Should a cafe or a butcher order in more stock to be ready, then have to throw it out?
17 1
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April 9, 2020 1:46pm
- Nickc2
  
  That’s what happens when there is no real-world or job relevant experience on the Government’s front bench and they are too arrogant to seek advice elsewhere.
  
  10 1
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  April 9, 2020 2:07pm
  - cmm
    
    But she’s surely remember that the chippy needs to get in some more crinkle cuts and jam donuts!
    
    9 1
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    April 9, 2020 2:22pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    My bad, I read ignorant, not arrogant.
    
    2 1
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    April 9, 2020 2:46pm
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS Paulus. I can go along with either.
      
      3 1
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      April 9, 2020 3:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Some fun – especially for you humourless trolls. You know who you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdiYOOyTbJM
4 2
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April 9, 2020 1:51pm
RW Capitalist

Haven’t heard a blanket call for plasma from the ones cured.
This is a treatment being touted overseas, people are volunteering.
Apparently the plasma of the cured, has the antibodies to help fight the virus.
Now this would be focusing on the health outcomes.
4 1
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April 9, 2020 1:52pm
- tf78
  
  I was wondering if any of these ‘samples’ have been kept for a DNA database.
  
  4 1
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  April 9, 2020 2:32pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The cure for Covid-19
  isn’t herd immunity,
  isn’t chloroquine,
  and isn’t a vaccine.
  
  The cure, apparently, is radical socialism. And we’ll take this always-failed medicine good and hard while megalomaniacal PM rules us.
  
  14 2
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  April 9, 2020 2:38pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    ‘It’ll work this time won’t it mummy?’
    
    Channelling ‘am I safe now?’
    
    8 1
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    April 9, 2020 2:49pm
  - tf78
    
    Well it’s not working for me – I feel quite ill now.
    
    3 1
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    April 9, 2020 6:37pm
Bobba Fret

The Labour Youth camp person can be named!!!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/120931403/young-labour-camp-assault-man-loses-bid-to-keep-name-secret
12 1
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April 9, 2020 2:12pm
- Puckish Rogue
  
  Does anyone know who it is, I always just assumed it was the son of an MP
  
  [Mod: You know what they say about “assume”… But it’s not]
  
  3 3
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  April 9, 2020 3:05pm
  - cmm
    
    Just don’t name him here until May or the mods will rightfully rip your balls off.
    
    4 0
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    April 9, 2020 3:48pm
Stu2

Stuff has an interesting interview with Stephen Tindall on the plane loads of PCE he and others brought in, and his thoughts on steps after that (antibody testing , temperature scanners at business entrances, contact recording of customers …)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120912415/coronavirus-how-tindall-morgan-and-fyfe-worked-to-ready-country-for-covid19-fight
2 1
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April 9, 2020 2:12pm
Fletch

The Easter break lawbreakers song (apologies to Waylon Jennings and those Duke Boys…)

Just the good ol’ boys
Never meanin’ no harm
Beat a track to the beach
For the holiday week
Think they’re way out of reach.

‘Stead of flattenin’ the curve
They’re more for floutin’ the rules.
Someday the virus might get ’em
But the law surely will

Makin’ their way
to their holiday home
Roadblock ahead
gotta lessen the spread
turn the camper around.

Just the good ol’ boys,
Turned back, headin’ for home
Park the car in the shed
best to be a bit bored
than to go wind up dead.

Yeh, by the third verse I was running out of ideas…. ?
6 0
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April 9, 2020 2:27pm
Chuck Bird

In the future should people be allowed in without the quarantine if they can prove they had the virus with an antibody test when one is developed.
5 1
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April 9, 2020 2:28pm
RW Capitalist

Now it really is a joke.
On the 26/3 I sent MBIE an EMail re my business being an essential service.
Having heard nothing, and made a couple of attempts to call them.
I sent Chris Bishop an EMail on 31/3 at 5:01pm to see if he could look into it.
3 1/2hrs later, I received confirmation that my business was “essential”
On the 2/4 at 8:26pm I received the same info from MBIE saying my business was “essential”
and
Now today 9/4 at 2:19pm I received the same info again.
BTW each time they apologized for being late.
Leaves the distinct feeling that:
They are VERY afraid of Chris Bishop
or
They are incredibly incompetent and the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.
and they are repeating the same work 3 times over.
Note to self:
Go away and slap yourself….of course they are incompetent…this is the govt.
12 1
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April 9, 2020 2:40pm
- Batman
  
  Managing multiple streams of emails from public inboxes can be tricky. Though three times suggests that they don’t have a centralised checking system and are currently doing it manually to a set of criteria.
  
  Can I ask, where did you send the first email? MBIE info or to their Covid address?
  
  3 4
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  April 9, 2020 2:43pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    But this is the same govt. that runs the IRD.
    Oops answered my own question, the put the budget on a public website and then tried to call it hacking.
    and no, I won’t allow you to trace who I am by back tracing the receiver of the EMail.
    
    7 1
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    April 9, 2020 2:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Running out of alcohol. Can’t buy Crown Royal or Jacks online, if it is advertised they are sold out. Whisky arriving next week. Looks like I finish the dregs. Glayva, some Chinese Shen Zhou Tiu, and some Hapsburg Absinthe (86%)
Not allowed in the spa pool after Absinthe – some thing about green fairies.
Countdown were nice today, they dropped Stella to $43
8 1
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April 9, 2020 2:41pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Got a good delivery today.
  
  0 4
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  April 9, 2020 3:50pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Try Winecentral
  
  1 0
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  April 9, 2020 4:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I don’t play the game and there is only one thing I take note of – the Dow.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/us-stocks-april-8-2020?fbclid=IwAR1tVPy9GnJAErf_g2SEuwYBHfVcf5LOakjbI8hUWxnGUDUAO3jLIByhvOA
2 1
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April 9, 2020 2:56pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Must be the Trump economy…
  
  1 10
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  April 9, 2020 3:51pm
cmm

These people make my blood boil.

Apparently we’re saving 200 lives a day by locking down when we did according to modelling from those same “Centre For Excellence” people who put out the 80,000 deaths prediction.

200 a day? Please. Sized for population, that is about 4x the worst day that Italy had.

So far Italy has had less than 18,000 deaths. Sized for population, that would be about 1500 in NZ. According to these people, we would clock that up in a week.

On top of the raw numbers, they clearly do not factor in:
1) They live in crowded places.
2) Worst air pollution in EU.
3) Older population.
4) They are in flu season, we are not.
5) Over 90% of the Italian deaths are “died with”, not “died from”.
6) They smoke worse than we do.
7)Lots of Chinese workers importing the virus, exacerbated by a “hug a Chinese person” day.

But still, we are supposed to believe we’d be 4x as bad as them!

If anyone should ever be locked up for fake news it is these people and the MSM that enables them.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12323880

But, hey, it all serves PriNZess. She can walk on water!
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April 9, 2020 3:38pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Not a sterling recommendation, that we would be 4x as bad as Italy.
  But considering
  Forestry planting and
  house building and
  homelessness and
  poverty
  You can possibly see where they get their pessimistic out look from.
  
  8 2
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  April 9, 2020 4:15pm
- Stu2
  
  The USA prediction is 60k now – social isolation has pulled that down from 90k
  
  The NZ models looked to predict sizable numbers happening for ages, but at the rate we are going new cases will be minimal soon. Then proper border controls (at last), full on contact tracing and antibody tests might keep them down. The NZ models are suspect
  
  4 1
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  April 9, 2020 4:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So hey to all. I am not a religious man, far from it.
May you have a Friday tomorrow that suits you and your faith.
Even those who piss me off, have a good day.
Steve Otto
11 0
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April 9, 2020 4:17pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Best wishes to you and your family as well Steve.
  
  6 0
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  April 9, 2020 5:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Climate change is on hold until after the NZ Govt revolution.
12 2
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April 9, 2020 4:47pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Trouble brewing in the Green Camp?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120950431/green-party-initial-election-list-puts-newcomer-teanau-tuiono-ahead-of-several-sitting-mps
5 0
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April 9, 2020 7:51pm
- sam green
  
  Only in your mind Maggy. Perhaps they don’t operate like you.
  
  0 2
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  April 9, 2020 8:32pm

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