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April 6, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 06 April 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

I’m going to make some predictions on how the Covid-19 story plays out, thinking particularly of when ‘normal’ life begins to resume.

1. The Covid-19 death rate will be much lower than ‘the models’ predicted, and as a result
   (a) Governments will quickly claim their ‘comprehensive containment measures’ (aka suspension of civil liberties) are the reason for the better outcome
   (b) Some model creators will defend their work, saying it was based on the best information they had at the time. Others will re-publish their model with numbers closer to actuals while claiming these revisions are normal practice.
   (c) Professional and amateur analysists will ferret out inconsistencies in numbers reported by governments during the crisis, and these will point to national leaders overstating the seriousness of the situation, and hiding important truths.

2. Governments will defend their suspension of civil liberties on the basis that they acted on the best information available to them. In the wake of legal challenges about the scope and scale of their actions, many governments will move to retrospectively enshrine their dictates in law so as to prevent further challenges.

3. The Overton Window will move left as governments from the left and the right try to recover the mess they created with more welfare and more quantitative easing (aka helicopter money), and all paid for by selling sovereign debt to China. Inflation will climb above 10% in New Zealand

4. Governments that instigated the most draconian suspension of civil liberties will see the biggest spike in relationship breakdowns, child poverty, suicides, unemployment and business failures. In New Zealand, more people will take their own lives as a result of the Labour government’s actions, than will have been taken solely due to the virus.

5. As better testing becomes available, it will emerge that the number of people who contracted the virus and then recovered with no significant or reported symptoms will be more than 10x the number of reported cases.

6. The reporting of national mortality statistics will show
   (a) a drop in deaths due to CHF, pneumonia, ILI, stroke and diabetes-related ailments over the same period as Covid-19 deaths ‘soar’.
   (b) that most countries experienced a small increase in their net mortalities, but few will see any statistically significant overall increase, and none will see mortalities increase by the number of reported Covid-19 deaths.
   (c) the some countries will change the reporting framework to mask these truths.

7. There will be calls from Climate, UN functions and some national government figures for more global government to ‘combat future pandemics’. Think “We’re from the Global Government. We’re here to help”!

8. China will increase its funding of the World Health Organisation on the pretext of being supportive of their work. This will rightly be seen as China buying WHOs continued duplicity over this and subsequent public health crises.

I drafted these three days ago, and some are already manifesting.
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April 6, 2020 8:00am
- All_on_Red
  
  Agree with most of that.
  Not so sure about inflation though.
  The ‘helicopter’ money is a replacement for money lost not extra, so shouldn’t be inflationary.
  We will see
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:09am
  - cmm
    
    Inflation is caused when the money supply is increased but the “value” behind the money does not.
    
    If productivity has increased from 2 widgets to 5 widgets and the money supply goes from $2 to $5 then that is non-inflationary. If the money supply goes to $6, then that is inflationary.
    
    However, when the widget drop from 2 to 1 and the money supply stays the same, then that is going to be inflationary because the productivity to $ ratio has dropped.
    
    ie. They are printing un-backed money. The money gets weaker. Inflation.
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:26am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Yes but the helicopter cash is not increasing the money supply.
      It’s replacing all the losses, topping up the hole if you like.
      In tandem with the issues caused by Covid you have a major economic meltdown going on in EU Banks.
      Most of the Fed money is to cover those losses and prop up the system.
      The money being spent here in NZ is to replace cash lost normally moving through the economy.
      The difference with what’s happening now compared to before is that the money is flowing immediately.
      Fwiw, I think we will recover quite quickly- with a chunk of debt added of course.
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:35am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        cmm is right. Even if the money supply has not increased, the quantity of goods and services has decreased due to the forced shutdown. The same amount of money being spent on fewer goods and services means higher prices.
        
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        April 6, 2020 8:42am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Alas,He’s not right. Looks like the only thing at the moment which has risen in price is vegetables.
        You guys clearly are unaware of the meltdown in the EU Banking system.
        There’s a massive shortage of USD (notice how it’s been rising) due to having to repay debt and cover trading losses (Eurodollar leveraging out of control)
        All this money will do is cover the holes.
        It isn’t extra.
        
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        April 6, 2020 9:40am
      - cmm
        
        Vegs going up in price is inflationary.
        
        I don’t think inflation can really just be measured against other currencies because we’re all in the same boat. Print, print, print.
        
        If we are all inflating at the same rate then it appears unchanged.
        
        But ultimately there is a huge value hole which leaves a hole in our economy that will take some while to fill. Just papering over the hole does not make it go away.
        
        We have not really recovered until that debt has been repaid. Would you say your financial position has recovered if you’ve just taken out a second mortgage?
        
        Apart from having to be repaid, that extra debt has interest that needs to be serviced. That is an extra drag on the economy (ie. services & road building that do not happen and extra taxation because we have to service debt).
        
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        April 6, 2020 9:49am
      - septic skeptic
        
        I have searched YouTube and come up with this definitive explanation. Enjoy ?
        
        https://youtu.be/j2AvU2cfXRk
        
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        April 6, 2020 10:24am
      - Durden
        
        Nigel is right. Supply side shock causes inflation. Here is some historical facts from India after 1918 Spanish Flu.
        “Recorded growth in real gross domestic product (GDP) was the lowest (-10.5%) while inflation was near all-time highs, a cocktail much worse than any other tragedy that has hit India—including the world wars or the Bengal famine.
        
        “Typically, when GDP slumps, prices also fall. But nobody was going to work in 1918 (because of the virus) and there was a supply-side shock.”
        
        This time supply side shocks will be amplified because of forced and full government lock downs as compared to the past where the people were just not there to work or voluntarily stayed away.
        
        https://www.livemint.com/news/world/why-1918-matters-in-india-s-corona-war-11584033795146.html
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:04am
      - All_on_Red
        
        You guys are wandering off on tangents now.
        I’m echoing the view of someone who was in Parliament working for Key during the GFC . And previously with Birch.
        He’s a very senior Economist but more hands on.
        DPF will know who I mean.
        The way this is being handled is different.
        The ‘hole’ is being filled before it’s empty and the pain hits.
        There is no ‘extra ‘ money.
        Yes, there’s a lot of money
        If anything in the short term there will be deflation.
        No one is suggesting there won’t be pain or additional debt to pay
        But I doubt we will see inflation.
        We will see.
        
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        April 6, 2020 12:44pm
    - PhilBest
      
      CrazyKiwi is ONTO IT!!! In every way.
      
      Yes, the pent-up inflation from monetary expansion may well end up being unleashed at this time, precisely because of the constraints now on the superabundance of supply of so many items under globalization. Housing under urban planning constraints is just a classic illustration of what can happen to any “goods” with supply constrained.
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:36am
    - igm
      
      It also knocks the hell out of material assets and capital savings.
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:43am
    - Simon
      
      The money supply has to hit the main economy to create inflation. If it parked at the banks and never loan then there is no CPI inflation
      
      There will be a period of deflation. It’s likely that banks won’t lend and instead money printing is pumped directly to the likes of Auckland City,Air NZ, Tainui, Flect Build etc etc. Any wasters that are big enough and have made terrible business decisions. They will be bailed out directly. Then the inflation will come.
      
      Unless Auckland City is pumped full of cash by central government it will go under. Auckland City assets ie the public’s assets will be sold cents on the dollar. It will be a disgrace.
      
      With inflation comes higher interest rates. As NZ is massive funny paper money debtor nation it’s over.
      
      Argentina economics bought to NZ by the mongs in Wellington
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:54am
    - Ed Snack
      
      You’ve also got to factor in the “velocity” of the money circulation. If that circulation slows by 50%, then 2 x the actually money in the system isn’t inflationary. You are looking at volume x velocity and trying to keep that fairly steady.
      
      Tim Worstall on his blog had a long series on that. We’ve had a lot of money “creation” since 2008/9 yet almost no inflation, and that’s because the velocity has undergone what appears to be along term shift to a significantly lower value.
      
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      April 6, 2020 10:43am
      - Miritu
        
        “yet almost no inflation”
        official inflation rates conveniently exclude the elephant in the room, property prices
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:09am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Indeed, the drawback with the constant volume x velocity measure is that excess amounts of money do built up and create asset bubbles. That is primary driver of our inflated house prices, the monetary bubble combined with low interest rates.
        
        But headline inflation in daily and weekly expense items has been very low for some time.
        
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        April 6, 2020 2:23pm
    - freethinker
      
      CMM – Correct but only part of the equation as inflation requires demand to exceed supply and availability of money. The failure of many otherwise viable business’s and the loss of employment (Income) may/will prevent demand building sufficiently to allow price increases. My guess is unless Covid 19 is tamed or eliminate very shortly the global economy will shrink and at best a recession will occur – no inflation. A worse case scenario is the recession spirals in to a depression and deflation happens and that I fear as historically wars have been a depression reverser. Some business’s and large corporation whose past actions have been flawed by greed of owners should be allowed to fail so creative destruction occurs and lessons are learned – “In times of change learners inherit the earth; while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists”
      I fear our Communists leaning Government are “The Learned” despite the good things they have done – Jacinda has script read comforting words but after wards its pragmatic actions that count. The world is hopefully learning that this great reset has many opportunities to steer NZ on a path of greater success and we badly need real leadership and the current opposition is unproved even though Simon may be stepping up and LEARNING otherwise I look to David Seymour who despite some mistakes has been consistently on the mark.
      
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      April 6, 2020 10:48am
    - Durden
      
      I think we need to start thinking about Hyperinflation. The preconditions for hyperinflation are “loss of productive capacity, foreign currency liabilities, and a loss of the ability to tax” .
      
      https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/04/what-are-the-preconditions-for-hyperinflation.html
      
      With the impacts of Covid-19 being inflationary, if we are to be clear-eyed, we are just one more unforeseen shock away from getting there e.g. an outbreak foot and mouth disease or some such thing that affects primary industry.
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:16am
    - chukar
      
      To reply
      For NZ it is case of a very wounded tradable sector.
      Drought,CV forestry just to name 3
      TheNZD is under even more downward pressure causedby the competency or otherwise of the RB talking about negative OCR and indulging in quantitative easing.
      The RB should be doing what it can to maintain the stability of the NZD in this crisis.
      
      Chukar
      
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      April 6, 2020 6:19pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    “Free” money must shift prices because there is no underlying productive value exchanged for it.
    
    Consider: if the quantity of money doubled in an instant, what would happen to prices?
    If you were a seller of goods and did not double your prices likewise but had to buy at the new 2x level you could go broke. Prices have to shift with the money available to pay for goods–that keeps relativities intact. The “value” of the items is actually independent being a function of its utility.
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:10am
  - DeepBlue
    
    There seems to be a difference of opinions from our resident commentors. This doesn’t give me confidence for those paid to know the answer.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:34am
  - Gus87
    
    What about if we confiscate all Chinese businesses, land and property who have ties to the CCP for damages for the coronavirus. Australia are doing this.
    
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    April 6, 2020 7:41pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Where is the evidence about Australia?
      
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      April 7, 2020 2:27am
- Ford Prefect
  
  As climate change has always been about the instigation of a socialist global government with wealth redistribution as their main aim, do you think the activists will now move from climate hysteria to more virus hysteria.
  
  Its not important to them how they terrify the public and gain control, its just important that it happens. This virus is a dream for socialists who want to control the population, and can be reinstated every year, when a new flu evolves.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:11am
- BullyHayes
  
  i think your points 4 and 5 are a sure bet
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:14am
- artemisia
  
  7. There will be calls from Climate, UN functions and some national government figures for more global government to ‘combat future pandemics’. Think “We’re from the Global Government. We’re here to help”!
  
  Send money. A lot. FIFY.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:16am
- emmess
  
  Kind of agree but there will also be a massive backlash from the populace (and parties on the right)
  
  Regarding 1)& 5) I hope so, as we get antibody testing and data, the denominator will rise. I don’t think the total number of death will be as bad as the worst predictions but it will be very bad.
  
  Reagrding 3) & 7) Not sure about the that, populist nationalism was on the rise before the crisis. The crisis has highlighted the failures of having our supply chains reliant on a near totalitarian state. And also the complete failure of global institutions, particularly the WHO, the EU is on the verge of collapse. The US has already cut its funding to the WHO in half already, there will be strong pressure to cut further. When things get back to normal and we are told about the impending doom on the ‘climate crisis’, a lot more people than do already will just laugh as they have just lived through a real crisis and have had a taste of the decarbonised future and didn’t like it.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:30am
- Blackface Twin Reverb
  
  Message from Two Weeks into the future
  
  Viva Frei is a Montreal based lawyer. See what 4 weeks in lockdown does to sane, rational people.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:31am
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  Spot on. I hope you are wrong about inflation as that would likely come with vast increases to mortgage rates which would utterly collapse the real estate market.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:48am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    In the last crash home owners went with their common sense and didn’t list. The shortage of available houses kept the price up.
    
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    April 6, 2020 1:01pm
- Ian Hawthorn
  
  Of course death rates from influenza and other diseases will drop. This social distancing thing isn’t a specific treatment for the Wu Flu. All infectious diseases are going to be knocked back.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:04am
  - krazykiwi
    
    True, however infectious diseases account for less than 3% of NZ’s annual disease deaths. My point is that significant numbers of deaths that would previously have been attributed another disease are currently being attributed to Covid-19, thereby increasing the public’s fear.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:48am
- Biscuit
  
  Some excellent points, kk.
  
  Re 8. I truly hope that fans of the United Nations – and just in New Zealand you’d include Helen Clark, David Shearer and Jacinda Ardern – come to appreciate what a near-useless, all-but-corrupt organisation it is.
  
  Here we are, just 80 years away from the 22nd Century and yet the world’s principal international forum is ‘ruled’ by nations that did well during a 20th Century conflict.
  
  A few observations re the ‘United’ Nations:
  
  * No major power worth its salt gives any credence to any resolutions it makes. If any resolution they dislike isn’t vetoed, it is simply ignored.
  
  * Most of its ‘work’ – indeed, our very own Parliament has proven to be similar, ha, in recent days – could be easily conducted by televisual conferencing. And have you ever been in NYC traffic when the convoys of limousines for self-important leaders and representatives get driven to their next feeding? I got held up for 22 minutes once – and, even being a tolerant sort of soul, have never much liked Egypt since!
  
  * The World Health Organisation – and who knows what other UN ‘arms’ are similar? – has shown it can be ‘bought’.
  (The clown heading WHO, you may recall, famously wanted to have Robert Mugabe as one of its ‘Goodwill Ambassadors’, good frigging grief!)
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:14am
- kwkiwigirl
  
  China may well also be buying up lots of assets around the world going at firesale prices.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:37am
- JackRabbit
  
  Right on all counts.
  
  Thanks you.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:33am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Point 4 is emotive drivel. You contemplate people are laying down in submission when they are not. It betrays the course you are taking as also emotive.
  
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  April 6, 2020 12:58pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I’m not contemplating anything other than what decades of well cited research confirms. Calls to helplines are increasing, and I’m involved with one such service here in NZ and we’re seeing a huge increase in calls generally, and specifically those involving suicide ideation.
    
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    April 6, 2020 1:55pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Have to accept that then, just not the impression I’m gaining in a very small sample.
      
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      April 6, 2020 4:28pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  One thing you missed. MSM here and Australia will hail Cindy as the saviour and the Sheeple will fall at her feet. She will win 2020 election with 67% of the vote.
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:52pm
- krazykiwi
  
  With reference to 6(a)
  
  “The reporting of national mortality statistics will show a drop in deaths due to CHF, pneumonia …”
  
  Check this out: Data from CDC.govt in the USA shows 1000’s fewer weekly pneumonia deaths. Can anyone offer a non-Covid-19 reason for such a massive reduction in these deaths?
  
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  April 6, 2020 6:02pm
PhilBest

Last night I found an excellent source of COVID-19 expert-analysis links, regularly updated at the bottom, requiring scrolling down. I’ve been putting time into looking for something like this, someone somewhere obviously needed to do it. Muriel Newman’s site has a few good links, but nowhere near as many as this one.
https://www.eturbonews.com/568969/risk-of-dying-on-coronavirus/
C’mon, everyone. Start demanding some reason and integrity from your media, your elected representatives, and your health officials!!
Here’s some quotes. I believe embedded links don’t post in KB comments; go to the original article for them. There are also illustrative graphs.
Current all-cause mortality in Europe and in Italy is still normal or even below-average. Latest data shows increases only for +65 year olds in Northern Italy and parts of France and Spain
The mortality profile corresponds to natural mortality, which is close to zero for children and almost twice as high for 75-year-old men as for women of the same age. The natural mortality profile “by location” is also a similar fit.
The decisive factor in assessing the danger of the disease is not the number of test-positive persons and deceased, which is often mentioned in the media, but the number of people actually and unexpectedly developing or dying from pneumonia (so-called excess mortality). So far, this value remains very low in most countries. Those who die “with” COVID-19 but not “from” pneumonia, did not die “of” COVID-19.
Most major media falsely report that Italy has up to 800 deaths per day from the coronavirus. In reality, the president of the Italian Civil Protection Service stresses that these are deaths “with the coronavirus and not from the coronavirus”
The Italian National Health Institute hasn’t yet determined what the patients analyzed ultimately died of and refers to them in general terms as Covid19-positive deaths. According to Italian Professor Walter Ricciardi, “only 12% of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus“, whereas in public reports “all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus“.
Italian immunology professor Sergio Romagnani from the University of Florence comes to the conclusion in a study on 3000 people that 50 to 75% of the test-positive people of all ages remain completely symptom-free
The occupancy rate of the North Italian ICUs in the winter months is typically already 85 to 90%. Italian intensive care units already collapsed under the marked flu wave in 2017/2018. 2018/2019 was a milder flu season in Italy and Europe, sparing many vulnerable people at that time.
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April 6, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  A study of Japanese evacuees from Wuhan concludes that the fatality of Covid19 even in the Chinese city of Wuhan was only 0.04% to 0.12% and thus rather lower than that of seasonal flu, which has a mortality rate of about 0.1%. As a reason for the overestimated fatality of Covid19, the researchers suspect the disease was probably asymptomatic or mild in many people.
  Air pollution in both Wuhan and Northern Italy (worst in Europe) is a significant cause of respiratory system pre-conditions and pre-existing mortality
  According to Stanford Professor John Ioannidis, the new coronavirus may be no more dangerous than some of the common coronaviruses, even in older people. Ioannidis argues that there is no reliable medical data backing the measures currently decided upon. From Ioannidis’ article:
  “…If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it would be buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.” If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average. The media coverage would have been less than for an NBA game between the two most indifferent teams…”
  A 2006 Canadian study referred to by Stanford Professor John Ioannidis found that pre-existing common cold coronaviruses may also cause death rates of up to 6% in risk groups such as residents of a care facility.
  Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, a world renowned expert in medical microbiology, describes the currently discussed or imposed measures as “grotesque“, “useless“, “self-destructive“ and a “collective suicide“ that will shorten the lifespan of the elderly anyway. Professor Bhakdi has meanwhile published a video (German/English) in which he explains his Open Letter to German Chancellor Dr. Angela Merkel, calling for an urgent reassessment of the response to Covid19 and asking the Chancellor five crucial questions.
  A model from Imperial College London predicted between 250,000 and 500,000 deaths in the UK “from“ Covid-19, but the authors of the study have now conceded that many of these deaths would not be in addition to, but rather part of the normal annual mortality rate, which in the UK is about 600,000 people per year.
  A new French study in the Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, titled SARS-CoV-2: fear versus data, concludes that „the problem of SARS-CoV-2 is probably overestimated“, since “the mortality rate for SARS-CoV-2 is not significantly different from that for common coronaviruses identified at the study hospital in France“.
  The UK has removed Covid19 from the official list of High Consequence Infectious Diseases (HCID), stating that mortality rates are “low overall“
  German immunologist and toxicologist, Professor Stefan Hockertz, explains in a radio interview that Covid19 is no more dangerous than influenza (the flu), but that it is simply observed much more closely. More dangerous than the virus is the fear and panic created by the media and the “authoritarian reaction“ of many governments. Professor Hockertz also believes that up to ten times more people than reported already had Covid19 but noticed nothing or very little.
  A Japanese study showed that of all the test-positive passengers from the cruise ship Diamond Princes , even among the 80-89 year olds, 48% remained symptom-free, while among the 70 to 79 year olds it was an astounding 60% that developed no symptoms at all.
  The latest US data of March 25 shows a decreasing incidence of “flu-like illnesses” throughout the country, the frequency of which is now well below the multi-year average. The government measures can be ruled out as a reason for this, as they have been in effect for less than a week. Researcher Stephen McIntyre has evaluated the official data on deaths from pneumonia in the US. There are usually between 3000 and 5500 deaths per week and thus significantly more than the current figures for Covid19.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:00am
  - PhilBest
    
    The latest influenza report of the German Robert Koch Institute of March 24 documents a “nationwide decrease in the activity of acute respiratory diseases“: The number of “influenza-like illnesses” and the number of hospital stays caused by them is below the level of previous years and is currently continuing to decline. The RKI continues: “The increase in the number of visits to the doctor cannot currently be explained by viruses circulating in the population…”
    The renowned Italian virologist Giulio Tarro argues that the mortality rate of Covid19 is below 1% even in Italy and is therefore comparable to influenza.
    A study from China in 2003 concluded that the probability of dying from SARS is 84% higher in people exposed to moderate air pollution than in patients from regions with clean air. The risk is even 200% higher among people from areas with heavily polluted air.
    The German Network for Evidence-Based Medicine (EbM) criticises the media reporting on Covid19: “The media coverage does not in any way take into account the criteria of evidence-based risk communication that we have demanded”
    German Virology professor Dr. Carsten Scheller from the University of Würzburg explains in a podcast that Covid19 is definitely comparable with influenza and has so far even led to fewer deaths. Professor Scheller suspects that the exponential curves often presented in the media have more to do with the increasing number of tests than with an unusual spread of the virus itself.
    Two Stanford professors of medicine, Dr. Eran Bendavid and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, explain in an article that the lethality of Covid19 is overestimated by several orders of magnitude and is probably even in Italy only at 0.01% to 0.06% and thus below that of influenza. The reason for this overestimation is the greatly underestimated number of people already infected (without symptoms). As an example, the fully tested Italian community of Vo is mentioned, which showed 50 to 75% symptom-free test-positive persons.
    A new study by the University of Oxford concludes that Covid19 may already have existed in the UK since January 2020 and that half of the population may already be immunised, with most people experiencing no or only mild symptoms. This would mean that only one in a thousand people would need to be hospitalised for Covid19.
    The German media scientist Professor Otfried Jarren criticized that many media provide uncritical journalism that emphasizes threats and executive power. According to Professor Jarren, there is hardly any differentiation and real debate between experts.
    The latest data from the German Robert Koch Institute show that the increase in test-positive persons is proportional to the increase in the number of tests, i.e. in percentage terms it remains roughly the same. This may indicate that the increase in the number of cases is mainly due to an increase in the number of tests, and not due to an ongoing epidemic.
    In Germany, some clinics can no longer accept patients – not because there are too many patients or too few beds, but because the nursing staff have tested positive, although in most cases they hardly show any symptoms. This case illustrates again how and why health care systems are getting paralysed.
    In a German retirement and nursing home for people with advanced dementia, 15 test-positive people have died. However, many of these died without showing symptoms of corona. A German medical specialist informs us: “Some of these people may have died as a result of the measures taken. People with dementia get into high stress when major changes are made to their everyday lives: isolation, no physical contact, hooded staff. ”Nevertheless, the deceased are counted as “corona deaths“ in German and international statistics.
    Professor Gérard Krause, head of the Department of Epidemiology at the German Helmholtz Centre for Infection Research, warns on German public television ZDF that the anti-corona measures could lead to more deaths than the virus itself
    An extensive survey in Iceland found that 50% of all test-positive persons showed „no symptoms“ at all, while the other 50% mostly showed „very moderate cold-like symptoms“. According to the Icelandic data, the mortality rate of Covid19 is in the per mille range, i.e. in the flu range or below.
    Authors of the German Risk Management Network RiskNET speak in a Covid19 analysis of a “blind flight“ as well as “insufficient data competence and data ethics“. Instead of more and more tests and measures, a representative sample is necessary. The “sense and ratio“ of the measures must be critically questioned.
    Depending on the country, the proportion of test-positive individuals is between 5 and 15%, which corresponds to the usual spread of coronaviruses. Interestingly, these constant numerical values are not actively communicated (or even removed) by authorities and the media. Instead, exponential but irrelevant and misleading curves are shown without context.
    Such behavior, of course, does not correspond to professional medical standards, as a look at the traditional influenza report of the German Robert Koch Institute makes clear (see chart). Here, in addition to the number of detections (right), the number of samples (left, grey bars) and the positive rate (left, blue curve) are shown.
    This immediately shows that during a flu season the positive rate rises from 0 to 10% to up to 80% of the samples and drops back to the normal value after a few weeks. In comparison, Covid19 tests show a constant positive rate in the normal range (see chart)
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:01am
    - PhilBest
      
      Oh, and of course, once you’ve digested the above, keep an eye on the NZ stats – all of them including “by region” hospitalizations and recoveries; and draw your own conclusions:
      
      https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:07am
    - GoVege
      
      If coronavirus ain’t a serious affliction, how come Boris is in hospital with it?
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:39am
      - PhilBest
        
        No. 10 Downing St isn’t a particularly healthy building and he picked up co-infections there? Highly probable. It is becoming self-evident that co-infections are what makes the difference between asymptomatic or mild infection, and severe or deadly infection. The oldest COVID-19 survivor so far is 104. Even on board the Ruby Princess, 60% of the infected between the ages of 70 and 79, were asymptomatic. Something is going on, that “experts” are too dam incompetent to even think of.
        
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        April 6, 2020 9:26am
      - Evadne
        
        1.The studies are not arguing that Covid is never serious at an individual level, but that it is potentially no more (or not significantly more) serious at a population level than other influenza like diseases.
        
        2. Hospital admission does necessarily mean something is “serious”, it just means something can be conveniently treated or tested there.
        
        3. Anecdotal evidence that someone died from, or was made ill by, some cause or other does not automatically mean that cause is inherently “serious”. People become seriously ill after a stubbed toe, or bee sting, or jogging. That doesn’t make minor injuries, bees, or exercise dangerous – just that the specific circumstances of that individual meant an otherwise trivial thing (for most people) led to tragedy *in that case*. Which is why you need to look at the population rate of stubbed toes, bee stings & jogging.
        
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        April 6, 2020 9:31am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Philbest,
      
      How credible is all of this musing by you on the mortality, given the Covid related deaths in New York, the UK, Italy, Spain. These are deaths rates way above the normal flu. And from the data I have seen, it shows Covid as the leading cause of death, especially among older people
      
      However, in NZ and Australia the death rate is very low, especially in NZ. Instead of 10% as it is in the UK, Spain and Italy, it is 0.1% in NZ. That is an absolutely enormous difference, that can’t be explained by different testing regimes. Why is much less less lethal here than in other countries? Is this because we acted earlier in the cycle than other countries, and because border control is fundamentally easier?
      
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      April 6, 2020 10:10am
      - freethinker
        
        Wayne – There is a correlation – the main areas of high rates of Covid 19 are those with high population density and mass transport systems. The measures by The Muslim Mayor of London Khan in reducing the number of underground trains simply concentrated even more proximity so community transmission becomes greater – ditto NY. Khan lives in the 7th century and I don’t mark him as total R Sole for fear of unjustifiably praising him – ditto NY De Blasio and Cuomo and see the connection -all Socialists. Join the dots in NZ which may escape the worst through the luck of Geography and the belated action to close borders and actually quarantine arrivals . There should be a reckoning and lessons learned but I fear a golden opportunity per my comments to CMM above will be ignored by the “learned”.
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:08am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Could be a lot earlier in the cycle in NZ, mass infections only 2 weeks or so so not yet time for the full mortality rate to be in evidence.
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:27am
      - artemisia
        
        Summer here, winter there. Some viruses don’t like it hot.
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:31am
      - PhilBest
        
        Wayne, you obviously haven’t read much of what I was quoting. This is NOT “the black death”!!
        
        What you call startling death rates, are no such thing in the context of overall mortality over time. Not only are vulnerable people dying now instead of in a few weeks or months hence, they are dying now instead of last year! And the mere fact of “where” these people live, increases their mortality from a wide range of causes. You can bet the bank on it, that mortality from COVID-19 now, will be offset by mortality from “all other causes”, because the victims now won’t be dying of THOSE things!
        
        Yes, I think it is self-evident why death rates from any pandemic (not just COVID-19) are higher or lower “by location”. It relates to the level of risk of the locations where elderly and vulnerable people predominantly live. Nowhere in NZ are there elderly people living in significant numbers, at locations where they are going to be quickly infected by viruses coming into their neighborhood via international exposure. If there are any such outbreaks, eg in rest homes, they will be the outcome of a random unfortunate coincidence.
        
        NZ’s clusters are all related to international exposure, and in circumstances where there is a very low probability of rapid transfer of infection to concentrations of elderly. Look at how the elderly in Northern Italy and some parts of Europe live; add high levels of physical proximity to people coming from overseas, and voila!
        
        There is actually nothing wrong with the young and healthy partying on as long as the vulnerable are out of harms way; herd immunity is the solution whether it comes early or late. The elderly are all locked down anyway, whether or not it is just them, or everyone. You can lock everyone down for ages; or you can lock down just the elderly for a short time. What’s smartest?
        
        Now having explained that, can I count on you to explain it to your colleagues and contacts in responsible positions?
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:42am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        “Why is much less less lethal here than in other countries? Is this because we acted earlier in the cycle than other countries, and because border control is fundamentally easier?”
        That’s the simplest way to put it and I believe correct, everything else is a diversion unless those basic numbers change.
        I’m happy to say my pre-occupation with testing those showing no symptoms is probably wrong. We’ve increased testing, broadened who can be tested and numbers of infections have not increased Ashley Bloomfield says that is an indication that broader testing may not be required.
        Ignoring what has happened in USA, Italy etc to say NZ is doing something wrong is heading to the crazy ward.
        
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        April 6, 2020 1:46pm
      - Evadne
        
        I don’t know much about Italy or Spain but I can tell you with absolute certainty that the death rate in the UK is NOT 10% or vaguely close to 10%
        
        They are only testing those who are seriously ill, seriously high risk, or constitutionally important (eg Boris, Charles).
        
        They are not even recording or monitoring people who have corona-like symptoms. People are just told to self isolate & take paracetamol.
        
        When an accurate antibody test is rolled out, to get better estimates of who has had it, the fatality stats will probably drop in line with the rest (ie about 0.1-0.3%)
        
        Meanwhile, the population-wide death rate from all causes is tracking around the figures from last year. I.e. they’re not seeing significantly more people die than usual.
        
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        April 6, 2020 2:53pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Also, Wayne, it occurs to me that you didn’t even note that what I was saying wasn’t “musings”, it was a copy and paste of what well credentialled experts are saying. You never were any good at listening to genuine experts if they contradicted the narrative that the mainstream media dictate, you were all too busy trying to make yourselves popular with knaves. You and your colleagues were piss-useless at “due diligence” on anything on which there is an intersection between scientific analysis and politics. Or even admitting that there was disagreement worth following, among experts, or that institutions tend to get ideologically “stacked” in one direction over time.
        
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        April 6, 2020 5:15pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Backed up by this detailed examination from Germany:
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-virological-findings-from-patients-treated-in-a-munich-hospital/
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:13am
- DeepBlue
  
  In Herald today a doctor said the majority of people who die from Covid19 die from heart failure when they are starting to recover, not the pneumonia itself. As yet an unexplained result. It would be interesting to see if your research picks up this trend.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:13am
  - Ed Snack
    
    That is interesting; there is a theory that may be gaining traction that seeks to explain what we are seeing with this virus.
    
    In essence, the real issue is that the virus itself has an affinity with the poryphrin chains in Haemoglobin, and when it binds with these it causes the FE ion in haem to be expelled. This causes a number of symptoms:
    
    1. Patients who can breath OK but have low O2 blood levels – their lungs are so far OK but their blood can’t carry enough O2;
    2. The released FE ions are a potent oxidative poison and cause damage to the lungs as it overwhelms the normal iron mopping up functions there. this leads to bilateral pneumonia which is quite rare;
    3. The excess iron also overloads the liver which attempts to mop up the excess Fe, leading to specific signalling molecules being released that can be and are detected;
    4. The lack of O2 causes eventual organ failure, including heart failure;
    5. Chloroquin and its derivatives work because the malarial parasite also targets Haemoglobin via the same binding sites, and the Chloroquin drugs block that site, preserving the ability of haemoglobin to carry O2.
    
    Apparently this theory does explain many of the specific symptoms seen in patients; and also suggests that standard ventilators which supply air and supplementary O2 under pressure maybe part of the problem as the lungs are fine, it is the blood that cannot handle the O2 requirements. Pure supplementary oxygen would be better, maybe.
    
    Anyone with better virological and biological knowledge would be welcome to comment. This looks interesting and I wonder if it is getting the research that it warrants. There is a Chinese pre-print paper on chemRxiv as covi19-202000328-EN-1.pdf. Preprint, and not sure how reliable.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:05am
    - Jules99
      
      Here’s an interesting video from an NY Doc [who] Says We’re Treating COVID 19 Wrong,
      
      https://youtu.be/tARyZfFSCyc
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:43am
    - PhilBest
      
      Great stuff, Ed. My biggest concern is that helpful medical findings can’t cut through the hysteria. Political bias is shockingly responsible for distortion of a public health issue: Bad Orange Man quotes findings that chloroquine might prove helpful; Nevada, Michigan and NZ promptly prohibit doctors from supplying it on their own intitiative. Bad Orange Man closes border with China; Nancy Pelosi, Bill DiBlasio and even health officials of progressive persuasion promptly urge people to “make a statement against xenophobia by going to that Chinatown festival in March”!!! One week later and they’re in shamless denial over their responsibility, blaming Bad Orange Man for everything.
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:48am
    - PhilBest
      
      Ed, re your earlier comment about cycle timing; I doubt that NZ had less than average exposure to infection via Chinese arrivals, especially following both our own holiday period, and their own “New Year”. I think that the Oxford Uni study that suggests that it is possible that 50% herd immunity is already here, with mass asymptomatic or mild infections having commenced from early January, is as true for NZ as it is of Britain.
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:52am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Maybe, we do need a proper random survey of the virus and of antibodies (if that is yet feasible) to find out. Otherwise, like the study, we’re just guessing.
        
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        April 6, 2020 12:36pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Exactly, re antibodies test. Random sample tests for the virus itself would now be too late. The random population-sample tests done at a few places in January are really, really helpful now – but hardly anyone is taking any notice of the studies based on those. Same goes for cruise-ship passenger “whole cohort” samples.
      
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      April 6, 2020 1:11pm
Tricati

I watched the PM’s covid update for the first time on TV1 yesterday and started to get really annoyed at the blatant misrepresentation of facts and the use of supposed ‘modelling’ to show how well we have done to stave of 3000 additional cases at this time.
She indicated the modelling she has (Not on any reputable web site I can find including Health Ministry), that if we hadn’t taken the steps we have we would have an additional 3000 cases – I’m calling BS on that unless she can front up with the modelling that has been peer reviewed for accuracy.
Additionally, she referred to the article on various news sites that refers to the reduction of trips to beaches, parks and workplaces and the like, as again an indication the governments plan is working. On reading the article it is clear even goggle state that because they can’t confirm if all had ‘location’ selected active on their mobiles, if the data was accurate.
To use these to items in a way to justify the government’s actions, when both are unvalidated and spurious at least, is extremely disingenuous to all of us who have endured the lock-down, taken a server financial hit, see no end to the madness and are being treated like idiots. I really do wonder who is advising her, as they clearly have no grip on people’s reality right now.
The one key stat I’m waiting to see is the number of applications for unemployment, which seems to be very absent, and would be a better metric on the governments performance to date. I don’t want to hear Robertson going on how many have applied for the wage subsidy, as that is irrelevant when job losses are a better picture of the impact on business and people’s lives.
I fear all we are now seeing is the ‘spin’ to suggest how well the government acted, but not the economic havoc they have caused through ideology ($25 pay-out to beneficiaries & increase in minimum wage), and poor decisions like closing butchers & bakeries – If millennials think baby-boomers made life hard for them, then they need to rake heed of this shambles, and what age group is leading it.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/413457/google-s-tracking-kiwis-during-covid-19-lockdown
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April 6, 2020 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  The lockdown hasn’t even been in effect long enough to have averted the 3000 projected cases! What idiots are we being taken for??
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:08am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  A few budding novelists on deck this morning, eh.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Yah. More screeds from the amateur epidemiologists.
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:13am
    - PhilBest
      
      War is too important to be left entirely to generals; analysis of “pandemic” is too important to be left entirely to epidemiologists. As Ann Coulter said last week: a famous geologist once proposed using nuclear bombs to expose abundant water supplies beneath the Arizona desert. He was asked “what about the fallout”. He replied, “oh, that’s not my field”. Lotta things aren’t the epidemiologists field.
      
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      April 6, 2020 9:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yah, what would those pointy-headed ‘experts’ know next to the genius of Ann “we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity” Coulter?
        
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        April 6, 2020 9:44am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Lol. Gotta admit, I’m getting more and more angry at this situation. There is a systemic fault in our leadership constructs, and this is delivering profoundly unwise, dangerous actions on the basis of “don’t question us, we know what’s best for you”.
    
    While I have plenty of criticism for the Swedes, their approach appears to be this: “Make it clear who the most at-risk groups are, and then let each person decide how to best protect themselves and their loved ones. We’ll help, of course, with factual/non-hysterical data, and we’ll support those most impacted”
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:30am
    - PhilBest
      
      I’m “risking” my credibility on continuing to predict that the Swedes will look good when all this is over. You can beat me up with today’s stats, but give it 6 months, and include economics data and “all cause” mortality rates, and then see who is laughing.
      
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      April 6, 2020 9:31am
      - curry4me
        
        PhilBest: Yeah, I hope their reaction proves to be the right one.
        
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        April 6, 2020 1:33pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        “include economics data and “all cause” mortality rates”
        
        Wash your mouth out, Phil!! You’re basically a murderer if you think that anything except possibly giving a few more days or weeks to very old and comorbid loved ones who might die with Covid-19 should be guiding us right now!
        
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        April 6, 2020 2:31pm
  - Biscuit
    
    ‘Once Upon A Time In Cindyland’, eh, Captain?
    
    ‘In the beginning, there were 9 long years of neglect…’
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:21am
    - niggly
      
      Followed by 3 years of Failures!
      
      (I expect that chapter was heavily censored)!
      
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      April 6, 2020 1:40pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        The pransome hincess was trying though during those 3 years, very very trying…
        
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        April 6, 2020 2:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  By ” blatant misrepresentation of facts” you mean her lies?
  Call it what it is, fucking LIES!!!!
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:12am
  - Swifty
    
    Steve, last night I replied to one of your comments on GD and you might have been wondering WFT I was talking about.
    
    My apologies, my reply was not meant for you – if was for another poster’s comment.
    
    I cocked up. Sorry mate.
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:18am
    - Biscuit
      
      No, no, Swifty, this won’t do.
      
      This is the Internet,.
      
      You never apologise!
      
      You cast aspersions on the other person’s parentage and stalk haughtily off into the sunset…
      
      NB:
      
      Stalk only close to your own house, of course. UNless you are ‘Dr’ David Clrak or Trevor Mallard
      
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      April 6, 2020 9:46am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      About me quitting KB? I did wonder. Water off a duck’s back
      
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      April 6, 2020 10:30am
  - All_on_Red
    
    She shouldn’t have let that Ruby Princess cruise continue.
    More have died in the Clusters created by infected passengers.
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She wants people infected – lots of political mileage to be made.
      Sadistic narcissist
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:36am
      - PhilBest
        
        She’s just selective with the response how the infections occur. From people let in from overseas without quarantine, fine. Do nothing even when hundreds of cases from it.
        
        Community cross-infection, bad! Lock everyone down to stop it; even if it is close to non-existent!!!
        
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        April 6, 2020 9:34am
    - Surely Knott
      
      I’d also like to know the details for the new Auckland (13 people) and Christchurch (10) clusters that they are calling unknown origin. The origin might be unknown, but there must be a common linkeage ( event, location, workplace, cruiseship?) that makes them a cluster. Otherwise they would be just general transmission.
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:59am
  - calendar girl
    
    I watched PM Ardern at length on TV1 this morning, following the Queen’s very able address to her UK and Commonwealth subjects.
    
    Why does our PM smile or grin, unexpectedly, during her TV messages to the nation on such a serious threat to her country’s citizens?
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:43am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Because the camera is there
      
      26 1
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      April 6, 2020 10:31am
      - fernglas
        
        Because, as anyone who has ever done live TV during a crisis will know, she is shit scared.
        
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        April 7, 2020 5:15am
    - Pheobe
      
      Why does she speak to us like we are 5 year olds.
      
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      April 6, 2020 4:36pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Because she is one.
        Did you see Jessica Hyphen Hyphen’s attack on Simon Bridges for using his car to get to his office in Parliament Buildings? What a sickening ………… licker she is.
        I’m convinced she follows Cindy around all day with a spare roll of toilet paper just in case. Then again, maybe the toilet paper roll is fake and she uses other means,
        
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        April 6, 2020 7:28pm
  - Akarak
    
    Sorry Steve. Should have been an uptick. Big finger, small phone!
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:31am
- Ford Prefect
  
  Does the PM also have a model showing expected cases when the country is in lockdown. Can she show the numbers for the next few days, weeks and months, then we can ascertain how accurate the model is in current circumstances. You cant just have a model for non-lockdown scenarios as you cant compare real world results.
  
  I also dont think you can use the moniker of “scientist” if all your analysis comes from a model. Climate change models are the most inaccurate predictor for outrageous amounts of money, and they get constantly corrected when real world data proves how useless they are.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:19am
  - Ian Boag
    
    And your “model” is that we are overdoing it and if we let up a bit things will be OK. Or not?
    
    Off the top of your anonymous head.
    
    Why should we listen to useless educated people when we get free advice from “Ford Prefect”? A crappy 1950’s “car” ….
    
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    April 6, 2020 6:20pm
- kiwiracer
  
  Modelling. . . .
  
  Climate Change
  Corona Virus
  
  The only truth is a disconnect from reality.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:23am
  - kiwiracer
    
    A down tick, not one climate change model has proven to be correct.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:22am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The Russian one (INM-CM4) ain’t too bad… and I think that pisses every one else off..
      
      Why on Earth would you continue to work with an assemblage of bad models when you have one that is much more realistic?
      
      https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/427906-are-climate-models-overpredicting-global-warming
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:32am
  - artemisia
    
    Modelling. Imperial College London.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:51am
- herb1
  
  Tricati , based on the actual mortality of 1 per 1000 cover cases , the PM has saved the lives of 3 people so far.
  How many lives will be lost by suicide due to job losses , businesses failures , mortgagee sales etc will be far greater.
  But still those with less than enquiring minds will adore the Liar in Chief
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:46am
  - PhilBest
    
    As experts I quote above are saying; the elderly and vulnerable themselves will probably be “offed” at a higher rate from the fear, disruption, isolation, and loss of routine “use it or lose it” activity. So it’s not even a question of “them” versus “everyone else put at risk”.
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:37am
- MT_Tinman
  
  Tricati
  
  The one key stat I’m waiting to see is the number of applications for unemployment,
  
  I have seen this request before in various columns. It is a direct steal from various USA columns.
  
  It is ignorant, at best, to assume at this stage this stat will mean anything at all in New Zealand.
  
  Most of those not now working are still being paid by the NZ taxpayer and, as yet, have no need to register as unemployed.
  
  Indeed I suspect most, like me, have no real knowledge on whether we will be employed or unemployed at the end of the current, completely unnecessary panic.
  
  The figures will only reflect reality some time after the first week of June.
  
  The rest of your comment was well thought out.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The PTPM was in full blast mode yesterday praising herself and her col. Apparently in her view they are world beaters.
  I did sense however that they are looking to get out of the present lockdown. The financial implications are growing as a worrying political issue. A quick release of the population would bring glory but a long term financial situation would oust the govt.
  My impression is the PM is concerned about her govt’s survival. She can’t be seen to be putting money above people but she will run cover for it as needed.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:23am
  - Ruawai
    
    And this morning she said she can’t fire David Clark as he is a ‘competent’ Health Minister. She must have a very low bar for competency.
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:49am
    - septic skeptic
      
      She leads by example.
      
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      April 6, 2020 10:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      David Clark is on par or better than most of her other Ministers.
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:13am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      At least the Chief Medical Officer in Scotland had the decency to resign when she got busted breaking her own rules.
      
      Coronavirus: Scotland’s chief medical officer resigns over lockdown trips
      https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-52177171
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:35am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        She was a medico: Dr David is a Reverend gentleman. He authorises building hospitals while others prescribe and fix.
        
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        April 6, 2020 1:17pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Here is the link to the modelling. The Modelling for our disease breakdown is based on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. I’m no expert but catching a disease on an enclosed cruise ship where an elderly population all eat, dine and dance and exercise together in a very very confined largely indoor space, does not seem to be a realistic comparison of NZ with it’s well spread suburbs and cities, outdoor lifestyles, where we still mostly cook and eat at home with our family groups. We also have the advantage that we now know the disease is present and can minimise large groups, increase distancing, and hygiene and mask wearing.
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/preliminary_report_for_moh_-_covid-19_modelling_for_nz_-_draft_27_feb_2020.pdf
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:31am
  - kowtow
    
    Not to mention very diverse crews most of whom are from the Third world , travel alot betwwen ships and shore and live in very close quarters to each other.
    
    Norovirus was always a big issue on those floating petri dishes even before the Wuflu.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:47am
  - Durden
    
    Diamond Princess, the ultimate petri-dish with a preponderance of older people, had 3,711 passengers, 712 confirmed cases, 10 deaths. That is deaths of 0.3% for the whole population and 1.55% of those infected.
    
    Why did they extrapolate it to the whole of NZ and make it more severe ?
    “It is also much more severe than the results of a case study where we take disease parameters from the largest outbreak outside of China ie, the Diamond Princess cruise ship outbreak and use these to extrapolate to all of NZ (see Appendix 2).”
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Thanks. They make it plain their modelling is running around in circles like marbles circuiting pins in a game maze. The cannot make definitive prognoses. Already their data has been superseded and the situation is far less worse than their extrapolations.
    
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    April 6, 2020 1:24pm
Brian Marshall

So last week some guy who represented a major courier company said that their business was down 60% from normal. So why don’t the government allow non essential business to operate and courier goods once the essential goods have been taken care of?
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April 6, 2020 8:01am
Maggy Wassilieff

Could you lot just keep your germs to yourself, txs?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018741637/coronavirus-gisborne-illegal-community-checkpoints-gain-support
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April 6, 2020 8:02am
- rockape
  
  With apologies to Queen,https://www.facebook.com/gert.snyers/videos/10218376613741012/?t=1
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:20am
- cmm
  
  Do you think I’d get away with doing the same on my street?
  
  I can find my painter’s overalls somewhere. Otherwise I can always put on my vest and long johns.
  
  11 1
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  April 6, 2020 8:58am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Depends how effective you would be…
    doesn’t look like those Northland roadblocks have worked
    Covid 19 coronavirus: Kaikohe supermarket staffer tests positive
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322592
    
    25 1
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    April 6, 2020 9:15am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Aren’t virii small enough to be blown around on the winds.
      
      9 1
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      April 6, 2020 9:24am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Not very far though, before the concentration is too low to be infective. That’s why the “2 metre rule” for distancing. ideally it would be 3-4 metres or longer for a really good sneeze, but practically it is pretty effective.
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:33am
mikenmildagain

Happy International Day of Sport for Development and Peace!
Just enjoy developing your sport in peace, and isolation.
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April 6, 2020 8:02am
krazykiwi

In the US state of Indiana, calls to the mental health and suicide hotline have increased by over 2000% from 1000 to 25,000 calls per day due to the lockdown and its economic impact.

Note to our PM: Too much of your style of ‘kindness’ leads to misery and deaths.
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April 6, 2020 8:03am
Maggy Wassilieff

Irish PM off to the front-line
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taoiseach-re-registers-as-a-doctor-to-help-tackle-coronavirus-crisis-992294.html
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April 6, 2020 8:03am
- cmm
  
  Chip shops shut so ours will have to stay in the Beehive :-(.
  
  42 2
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  April 6, 2020 8:40am
  - cmm
    
    DG: Sorry mate theres a shutdown and an apostrophe shortage. However Cindy said that anyone wanting an apostrophe should have one. Hah. Commas running short too. I suppose people are starting to use those instead of apostrophes. Lotsa full stops though…
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Perhaps that could be replicated in New Zealand (minus the doctor bit)
  
  9 1
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  April 6, 2020 8:53am
  - cmm
    
    Dr Liz Craig, currently a Labour list counting token, could go back to earning her coin. She’s doing bugger all as an MP and could be more valuable in the medical system.
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Like most MPs, she is working from home, answering constituents’ questions, etc.
      
      3 27
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      April 6, 2020 9:49am
      - cmm
        
        I call bullshit.
        List MP.
        No constituents.
        No questions.
        
        Haven’t heard a peep out of her although she’s Labour’s only medic. You’d expect her to be somewhere up front leading the charge.
        
        Still in hiding because of the Fingergate allegations??
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:00am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, all list MPs will be at home. A few of them will be on the Epidemic Committee.
        You may think list MPs have no constituents, but what do you then call the members of the public who seek their assistance? Do you think a list MP should hand them off to an electorate MP?
        
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        April 6, 2020 1:07pm
    - Paulus
      
      Who is Liz Craig – never heard of her ?
      
      5 1
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      April 6, 2020 1:44pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Kiwibloggers seem to think that because she is a Labour MP with a medical qualification she should automatically be the minister of health…
        
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        April 6, 2020 4:27pm
- MrTips
  
  Not to be outdone, Boris is off to the front line too, but he’s doing it the hard way. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/413539/uk-prime-minister-boris-johnson-admitted-to-hospital-over-virus-symptoms
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:53am
- kowtow
  
  He’s in a caretaker role at the moment , so probably has a bit of spare time on his hands . Also lost out in the popularity stakes in the recent GE ,.
  Call me a cynic but he’s repositioning himself for life after politics.
  Meanwhile Ireland has taken a major lurch to the left , including a big vote for the gun men with blood on their hands.
  
  Friendly Micks , my fat arse.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:43am
Raphael

It’s a beautiful day out there.
If you have a chance, try get out for a walk today.
Don’t let any idiots* on the internet ruin your day.

*use your own definition of who you think is an idiot
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April 6, 2020 8:04am
- PhilBest
  
  The internet is where you might pick up some sense from!! Yeah you have to sift through a lot of groupthink, party line and conspiracy theory, but ain’t that always the way. You can find sources you obviously can trust.
  
  12 3
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  April 6, 2020 8:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I can think of two. They are not awake yet
  
  21 2
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  April 6, 2020 8:14am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Not true.
    
    Do you have any idea the time and fortitude it takes to swallow all that resentment, hate and bile so to spit it out here all day?
    
    They are hero’s in their mothers basements . . .
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:56am
Than

Watched the first couple of episodes of Tiger King yesterday. Gotta say I don’t the appeal.

This may be partially because True-Crime shows aren’t my thing. Neither are Jerry Springer style “laugh at the weirdos” day-time TV. And Tiger King is basically a hybrid of these.
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April 6, 2020 8:05am
- kowtow
  
  Must say I kept seeing references across all sorts of media “news” out lets to this and wondered wtf is this trash about .
  Searched and saw it was to do with a netflicks thingy.
  
  Talk about free advertising , or are they all involved with each other?
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:39am
  - Batman
    
    Come on guys, it’s bloody hilarious.
    
    Not so much laughing at the people involved but the entire scenario which just gets more insane as you go along.
    
    By the end of it you can’t believe it’s real.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:49am
surfing

Government should certainly allow golf course green keepers and gardeners of large public parks / gardens to work in isolation.

No commonsense.
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April 6, 2020 8:11am
- RiP NZ
  
  Just dodged the councilman mowing the domain (top of my street)
  Easily recovered if left…its a big empty bit of grass
  While literally up the road the golf course moves to unrecoverable- and its effectively the same activity
  Most rural course are on bones of a anyway- no good lifting Lockdown and being 6 months away from a usable course.
  Maybe this is their Kiwibuild solution…….a holes.
  
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  April 6, 2020 2:43pm
Raphael

Is war over resources brewing?

Venezuela seems to be resorting to piracy as one of their naval ships attempted to seize a cruise ship.
The Naval ship ended up ramming the cruise ship, which has a re-enforced hull for ice breaking, and the naval ship ended up sinking.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52151951

Venezuela was already in a desperate situation, having resorted to drug trafficking to try get foreign currency, and with the oil price having plummeted the only resource they had of value is now worth way less than it was.

The US has deployed some naval ships to the area to “prevent drug shipments”…..

just a bit of random speculation …. and a chuckle at the Venezuelan ship sinking
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April 6, 2020 8:13am
- All_on_Red
  
  Venezuela govt has always been involved in drug trafficking.
  Especially in partnership with Hezbollah and Iran
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:19am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hezbollah has a history of developing relationships in Latin America, especially among the Lebanese communities in Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay.
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:49am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Mikie
      and the terrorist training and transportation…
      
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      April 6, 2020 12:00pm
- Andrei
  
  That is a weird story – It is an old clapped out vessel and the company that owns that ship is bankrupt, in deep finncial doo doos
  
  It had been under arrest in Argentina for non payment of large debts, and had just been released after the debt was somehow paid even though the company that owns her is in receivership.
  
  It sailed from Buenos Aires on 5 March – there is clearly a lot more to this story than what the BBC is telling
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:29am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  I believe this qualified as the first portuguese (the ship is registered there) naval victory for 200 years.
  
  Yay Portugal
  
  And typical Latino bureacrats – obviously their subscription to Jane’s is not up to date.
  
  “For the glory of the Socialist Republic – and because they probably have toilet paper and clean water on board – Lets ram this enormous ice strengthened cruiser with our tinny little patrol craft!”
  
  What could possibly go wrong.
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:35am
  - Komata
    
    The deity etc.@0835
    
    After reading your post this came immediately to mind….
    It seems appropriate; Enjoy.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qp0IgBClpQ
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:48am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The ‘cruise ship’ had no passengers and was crewed by Ukrainians. Not sure what it was doing there but it seemed well prepared for trouble.
  
  https://www.portugalresident.com/new-spat-opens-with-venezuela-president-accuses-portuguese-cruiseship-of-act-of-terrorism-and-piracy/
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:51am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Maybe Maduro thought the Ukrainians were mercenaries that were bound for Venezuela ? He is a bit paranoid about such things.
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:34pm
krazykiwi

A leaked confidential strategy paper of the German government shows that the German government, in conjunction with the media and some scientists, is apparently following a “shock strategy” to make people afraid of a “worst case scenario. The general population – for whom the virus is largely harmless – should be warned against “painful suffocation”; likewise, children playing in playgrounds could cause the “painful death” of their parents.
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April 6, 2020 8:17am
G152

The first four posts today are what we need.
Non headshake data.
And when this is over how do we deal with all the bankrupt businesses and the people who were once employed and barely paying their way ???
And will we get our freedoms back ?????
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April 6, 2020 8:18am
Happychappy

A third of Auckland businesses fear permanent closure due to CORID 19 crisis.
Bigger businesses are starting to feel the pinch of CORID-19 as they lay off hundreds of workers. Now that reality has crept in – the big costs,the hire purchase, the rental, the tenancies, the overheads – and people looking at their reserves and saying ‘ I can’t survive this’. Aucklands Chamber of Commerce’s Michael Barnett told one news.
It comes as a survey done during the lockdown of 1,000 businesses from Aucklands Chamber of Commerce a grim insight. ” One of the things that came back that was abundantly clear that 30% of those thousand Companies are going to have to shut themselves down, they will not survive”, Mr Barnett says.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/third-businesses-fear-permanent-closure-during-covid-19-crisis
So it is alright to go on facebook and talk about finances and our economy with people that don’t know , but how is she going to explain it to maybe over a third of our Employers who will be facing financial ruin because of the shot down.
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April 6, 2020 8:19am
- Inandout
  
  Happy, if I was one of those who lost their jobs I would be furious Central and Local body workers are on full pay and some ‘working from home’. Pull the other one, it has bells on it. Jacinda can’t leave the election too late or she will be accused of using the virus to further her interests. On the same note, Trish Regan on Fox was sacked for pointing out the Dems were using the Covid virus to push their politics.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We have over 400,000 folks working in the Public Sector….
    Whether they are all fully occupied in the lockdown is debatable.
    
    https://ssc.govt.nz/our-work/workforce-data/
    
    Whether they will all be needed to restore NZ’s economy when we get out of lockdown is another question our politicians might like to ponder.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:43am
    - Ehlana
      
      Has anyone actually seen anything official about public servants at this time? I understand front line workers in sanitation, health, MSD, IRD, police are probably as busy as ever, but what about head office people or those doing work not connected to health and food? What has happened to them?
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:59am
BobbyS

So called journalist asked the PTPM yesterday ” What do you think of the guy that sneezed & coughed over people in Christchurch?”
Seriously?!?!?!?!?
What a complete dumb fuck question that is?

There is only one answer to that
What purpose does it serve to ask that question?
What a complete waste of a question in a news conference about a global pandemic

We seriously need some journalists culled, they are a waste of space
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April 6, 2020 8:22am
- Inandout
  
  Bobby, that drunken idiot should have been shot with an animal sedative, of elephant strength.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:43am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    He didn’t look too drunk to me.
    
    Seemed to be perfectly aware what he was doing… thought it was a great joke… obviously still sober enough to post it on the interweb.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:45am
- david
  
  Obviously a patsy question to make the SLG look tough and in charge. A soft target put up for her to fire at with impunity. Absolutely pointless waste of everyone’s time otherwise.
  I for one have had a guts full of being treated like an unintelligent sponge with self-promoting chest beating, half truths and transparent strategies which clearly are aimed at manipulating a public response.
  Oh to be treated as an intelligent adult.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:56am
MT_Tinman

This headline from Stuff caught my eye:
Afterpay ‘could hold on to tens of thousands’ during lockdown, retailer says

Reading the story it seems some retailers are taking orders for stock they do not have and/or can not deliver and allowing people to pay over time using AfterPay.

AfterPay only pay sellers after goods have been delivered.

The retailers want AfterPay to take a risk and donate money to the retailers in the hope that in the future the retailer will actually deliver the goods, not go broke, abscond etc.etc.

AfterPay are sticking by their contracted obligations.

Based on the story the only argument the retailers have put forward is that AfterPay will hold on to significant amounts of money until the retailers fulfil their obligations and thereby gain some interest.

This is a front page story on Stuff.co.nz.

I can only assume the editor, journalist and, for that matter the complaining retailers, are Labour/NZF voters.

No one else would be silly enough!
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April 6, 2020 8:25am
cmm

Venezuela, the lefty paradise.
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April 6, 2020 8:30am
- MT_Tinman
  
  New Zealand: soon to be a second Venezuela.
  
  15 3
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  April 6, 2020 8:59am
  - PhilBest
    
    I’ve said for years that we’ll be the first “banana republic” clone in the Anglosphere
    
    14 3
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    April 6, 2020 9:42am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, that would depend on your definition of ‘Anglosphere’.
      
      2 20
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      April 6, 2020 9:53am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Belize would be my guess for the first. They do have actual bananas there !
        
        Fiji would be pretty close too; and it does, as mikey accurately points out, depend on what is included in the “anglosphere”. Parts of Africa come to mind…
        
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        April 6, 2020 11:38am
- Rich Prick
  
  Well, we are having a 30 day free trial of socialism. I don’t think I’ll be subscribing when it ends.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:56am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I’m feeling a bit like that with my introductory $1 per week Herald subscription.
    
    9 0
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    April 6, 2020 11:44am
    - Paulus
      
      Mind you the Herald is so thin and few pages nearly ready for re use in the toilet.
      Not worth any money.
      
      6 1
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      April 6, 2020 1:48pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It is also a low-Carbon trial..
    How’s that feel?
    
    10 1
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    April 6, 2020 11:46am
Simon

Aust at the same as Cov19 alert level 3 and the Wuhan virus is under control

S Korea & Taiwan tackled the virus without destroying their economies.

The Mong Princess panicked and blew up the economy.
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April 6, 2020 8:30am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes and she has no clue how to fix it.
  Reports over the weekend point to:
  1. One third of businesses closing down;
  2. Expectations of unemployment among 15 to 19 year olds and 20 to 24 year olds to be as much as 25%;
  3. Contraction of the NZ economy will be as much as 10%.
  
  With this all PriNZess can say is:
  1. We went early and we went hard. The government, didn’t and her patronizing platitudes justifying the CoLs actions are just that platitudes!
  If they had gone hard and early, why have we got any cases in an island nation? They made a public spectacle of the quarantine for the Wuhan returnees and the Diamond Princess passengers, why didn’t they shut the doors and pay all Kiwis abroad, $5k to hide in their bolt holes for 1month? It would have been cheaper than the economic carnage they are creating and bequeathing NZ for the next 2 to 3 years!
  2. It is a false dichotomy between public health and the economy. Rubbish, what is public health, if NZ has an economy in depression and mass unemployment. The welfare system will be overwhelmed an unable to cope. Printing money does in itself help NZ to produce and earn income with the levels of unskilled unemployed we will experience!
  3. PriNZess telling businesses to step up and fix an economy that her and Robertson have smashed, is not strategic leadership with a vision and shows just how devoid of ability the government and the bureaucrats in Wellington are;
  4. Robertson talking of “shovel ready” projects to get NZ going, shows how lacking in understanding he is. For projects to be “shovel ready”, assumes consents are in place, tenders have been let, the contractors are there ready and have the people ready to go. Has no-one enlightened Robbo that out of work shop assistants, hotel workers etc are not exactly road or building contractors? Further has nobody told Robbo, that for projects to help NZ, there needs to be a strategic purpose for the project – undertaking “nice to do projects” like cycle ways and SkyPath do not add value and will not help NZ recover economically.
  
  Playing politics (and not a very nice thought I know), I want this lockdown to continue and for PriNZess to delay the election until April next year. This is because the longer it continues, the greater the economic wreakage. Meaning the greater the discontent with PriNZess and the CoL (even her Facebook fan club will lose faith in her as a recession/depression bites home), the better the chance of banishing PriNZess and Winston to the political graveyard.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:13am
  - Paulus
    
    Ready for the incoming National Government to sort out AGAIN.
    
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    April 6, 2020 1:50pm
GoVege

Labour need to get their list of “non-essentials ” sorted.
Magazines….essential.
Flowers…essential.
Butcheries…essential.
I hate to see animals killed, but when the supply chain is messed around with, they are more likely to suffer, and that is worse.
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April 6, 2020 8:43am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes Vege, did you see the flower gardener knowing down his stock, and saying he has had to lay off staff. Because he can’t sell his stock. The example on the news on Saturday, was someone who had built up his business over 30 years.
  
  Well done the CoL, are they going to pay compensation? Chances are, No!
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:16am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes, it was beautiful stock…same story happening for many market gardeners and plant nurseries.
    
    I was seriously pissed off yesterday when Linda Clark opined on RNZ that only poorly performing businesses would go to the wall.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018741568/linda-clark-and-michael-barnett-on-nz-s-covid-19-response
    
    Another clueless mouthpiece of our CoL.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:52am
    - Jules99
      
      Once the falling tax take is felt a lot of arrogant numpties will be out on the streets as well.
      
      4 0
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      April 6, 2020 4:56pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    A flower producer here has been giving out (collected from roadside stall) bunches of flowers free to essential workers. This has been much appreciated and all the photos and messages of thanks on social media have given the flower grower a lot of positive recognition.
    
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    April 6, 2020 3:16pm
- Jules99
  
  I see no reason for the government to distinguish between non-essential and essential. How you define that depends on the individual. People should be able to go about their daily business, so long as they can follow the 2 metre rule and have appropriate health and safety precautions in place.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:37am
Poppa

I am wondering what the true cost of this lockdown is. To my way of thinking it has to be something in the order of $1billion per day

That is a huge cost of protecting people from not dying. In fact there is even some doubt about the woman that did die, she may have died from other things

It just feels to me that this is over blown, even though I am what would be considered at risk
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April 6, 2020 8:47am
Maggie Pie

This has gone absolutely viral – getting over a million hits within a matter of weeks!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUtb0hLU0AAtl_0?format=jpg&name=medium
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April 6, 2020 8:48am
- Maggie Pie
  
  @8:48am
  Hmmm – i see there’s at least 2 members of the CCP logged in. Humorless sillies 😀
  
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  April 6, 2020 8:58am
3-coil

Parkin’ Clark down in dunners for the duration of the lockup must’ve been a lightbulb moment for Jacinda (get the lazy error-prone idiot out of sight, away from the media spotlight in Wellington) but even that turned out to be yet another cockup by the PM. The Rev Clark’s dimwitted arrogance led to his rule breaking making the national headlines – epic fail!

But what it does highlight yet again is the abysmal lack of competence in ALL of the government Ministers that Ardern has appointed (Twyford, Jones, Sage, Whatiri etc etc) none of whom seem capable of doing their jobs. The coalition is evidently just a ship of fools leading the country to inevitable cockup after cockup, created and led by an lightweight airhead Prime Minister Ardern – who still hasn’t clicked how stupid she looks delivering doomsday scenarios with that ubiquitous inane grin plastered over her face. When will she be announcing the pay cuts her non-performing coalition losers will be taking to help NZinc out of the mess she’s created?
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April 6, 2020 8:50am
- DeepBlue
  
  Most of her Ministers seem to be parked at home in the provinces. Jacinda becomes more presidential, in her eyes, with every stand up.
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:42pm
- Scooter
  
  I think they do these idiotic things on purpose (who would drive a van with his face plastered on it) 1. cos they know JA will do nothing 2. They’re hoping they won’t get a 2nd term… It’s becoming abit too hard.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:23pm
MCos

Other interesting angles on a couple of issues relating to the lockdown from Gordon Campbell writing for Scoop
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2004/S00020/on-wage-cuts-and-the-listeners-demise.htm
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April 6, 2020 8:52am
- hilaryt
  
  Sour grapes re the Listener and as a long-term subscriber I am left in no doubt what he thinks of me! Would enjoy a debate between him & people like Ralston & Nissen, both of whom were pretty grumpy and condemnatory of the govt over this. (Thanks for the link)
  
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  April 6, 2020 1:16pm
Old White Loser

Why are we flying in masks and PPE When we make them here. Why not help the local companies make more or re purpose them like Ford is making respirators. I kno the material is in short supply but sure we can come up with a substitute. What happen to the number 8 wire attitude?

I also wonder that the key people pushing this flying in and chartering are all importers from China what heir end game is. We should be importing less for a while and using more NZ Made.
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April 6, 2020 8:56am
- kowtow
  
  You didn’t get the memo , comrade.
  
  Manufacturing is shit work that the Chinese can do .We can “offshore” all our factories .
  
  Instead we can get on with tertiary economic , high paid jobs in service industries such as tourism …….selling plane tickets , making beds , washing dishes and serving coffees.
  
  How’s that working out now , seeing as “trade” with China was going to make us all rich .
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:44am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Yes, apparently importing a lot of desperately poor brown Third Worlders to do the dirty work in the NZ economy isn’t problematic or troublesome at all. And letting our own jobless rot on the economic scrapheap while the business class get richer off exploiting this foreign labour is caring and humanitarian.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The Ford and GM production of ventilators may be too little, too late.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:55am
  - Ed Snack
    
    But maybe Chloroquin drugs will deliver.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:45am
    - Batman
      
      Until they’re actually proven to help, it is recklessly irresponsible to encourage people to take something not prescribed by their doctor, or to burden the system by asking for something which isn’t proven and certified.
      
      4 7
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      April 6, 2020 11:50am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Looking like they probably won’t be needed.
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:51am
- marcw
  
  It’s hard for companies to ramp up production when they are in lockdown. Did you know the reason why there is no flour available in supermarkets is not because there is no flour – it’s because there is no supply of retail sized bags to pack into. A six week delay on getting new stock!!!
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:37am
Southtop2

PTPM called me an idiot yesterday for wanting to catch a trout during the weekend after a week of working from home watching hundreds of her supporters walking past my house (Lycra has a place, just not sure where).
I hope that this is bobble heads Clinton basket of deplorables moment!
I suggest a t-shirt competition – e.g. Proud to be one of Dear Leaders Idiots
Let the creative juices flow
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April 6, 2020 8:57am
KevO'Brien

A close examination of patients–real details:-
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/04/coronavirus-virological-findings-from-patients-treated-in-a-munich-hospital/
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April 6, 2020 9:00am
KevO'Brien

DIY masks:-
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/04/make-your-own-mask-diy-no-sew-2-minute-and-high-quality-sewn-hepa-options/
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April 6, 2020 9:01am
- cmm
  
  I remember our dentist using masks like that in the 1970s.
  
  Basically a bit of elastic with a crocodile clip on the end holding a folded paper towel.
  
  Scary bugger. It didn’t help that he was a German with a vocabulary limited to yelling “Open Vide, Open Vide.”
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:15am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Vee haff vays off makink you not tok.
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:21am
kowtow

This guy is a microbiologist and advisor to the HK gubmint.

Third wave infections.

“This kind of cycle will continue on and on until we have an effective vaccine or we acquire herd immunity, where about 60-70 percent, or even 70-80 percent of people are immune to Covid-19.”

And on the social cultural front.

“But at the same time, he continued to make provocative comments, urging Chinese people to raise their civic awareness — citing Japanese and German people as an example to follow.

Yuen said if there’s one thing to learn from the coronavirus pandemic is that many people disrespect the lives of wild animals — insisting on consuming a variety of animals even though they already have plenty of choices like beef, pork, poultry and mutton.”

Looks like the disruptions will continue either till there’s a vaccine ( who knows how long ) or until there actually is a rip through , we take the knocks now and get on with it.

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1519011-20200405.htm
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April 6, 2020 9:03am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Bill Gates has plans for all of us to be chipped and certified as safe–he will provide.
  https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-04-03-eugenicist-bill-gates-demands-digital-certificates-coronavirus-vaccination.html
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:32am
Maggy Wassilieff

Well if NZers are such a key component of the Aussie economy, shouldn’t we be welcoming them home to help rebuild our economy?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/413536/new-zealanders-key-part-of-australian-economy-pm

Or is Jacinda worried that these folks left adrift in OZ are going to be damn angry if they are forced to return to NZ and will have no sympathy for her & her CoL government.
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April 6, 2020 9:03am
- MrTips
  
  Its ball bashingly clear that TeamGracinda are electioneering. Put Cindy in the limelight all the time (Clark was allowed to leave to DNE) and make statements to NZers in Aussie that Cindy is looking out for them.
  
  Labour clearly are electioneering for NZers in Aussie. They view them as their most important voters. And it might work because anything Labour do or say will have no effect on Aussie based NZ lives, but Cindy can look good by simply saying they tried. All care, no responsibility and she loves it.
  
  Meanwhile, TeamGracinda have no idea what to do on planet reality in NZ.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:32am
  - godruelf
    
    I think Dunedins Airport code is more appropriate for the Rev Clark …. DUD…. Should be wearing his Bag Tag
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:46am
- Harriet
  
  Given they can self isolate in NZ with their recent and current links to the country, then I can’t see a problem.
  
  Rebuilding your country is spot on, everything will soon be up for inspection, government contracts, departments – even government employees very presence – such as the need for specified school hours now that children will get used to adapting to some of their teacher’s time via social media. What secondary school pupil needs a government employee for 30hours when their own parents now relate to them over social media?
  
  If some pupils do have 3 days a week with their teacher in the class room, or only mornings 5 days a week, and due to their parents work commitments or such things, or even the kids having other interests – then so what?
  
  Attending public buildings shouldn’t be compulsory on anyone, let alone children. And the practical daily burden on parents ‘to deliver’ at certain times plays enormous havoc with society, just ask traffic police and emergency depts. And employers, or just ask the parents themselves. Public transport would be more efficient. Not every adult has a school teachers daily routine. It’s not war time.
  
  Meanwhile people are increasingly barred from talking in the public square, currently even banned from being there. Why the need for children and public buildings then?
  
  Ted Cruz said education is the new civil rights. 😎
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:40am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yeah I think that message about how essential New Zealanders are in Australia was not really directed at the Australian Government. I bet that phone is well and truly off the hook.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:48am
Nigel Kearney

We all die. The problem is not death but the loss of years of quality life.

Based on events in other countries and the kinds of people affected, the most we can expect to achieve in NZ with the toughest restrictions is to enable 10,000 people to avoid the virus and enjoy an average of 15 further years of quality life as a result. That’s 150,000 years total and I consider it an overestimate if anything.

Then you have to consider the years of quality life lost by having 4.7 million people in lockdown for a month. That’s already almost 400,000 person years though of course we can still do some things we enjoy. Then you have to add the reduction in quality of life due to economic losses, the inevitable deaths due to cancer patients and others being made to wait, and what we’ll lose due to higher taxes in the future to pay back all the debt.

It’s hard to see the benefits of this lockdown outweighing the costs. I suggest giving it another week and from the Tuesday after Easter onwards we just return to normal. We’re not a police state and politicans are untrustworthy and only semi-competent so I don’t see that we have any moral obligation to keep subjecting ourselves to their nonsense. Anyone who wants to stay home longer can still so that.
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April 6, 2020 9:15am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Health practitioners in New Zealand and Pharmac have long used cost benefit analysis to decide whether to save lives (eg whether to invest in drugs).
  
  https://www.pharmac.govt.nz/medicines/how-medicines-are-funded/economic-analysis/pfpa/6-estimating-health-benefits/
  
  I don’t have time to look up the numbers but I am positive that the costs of this lockdown will exceed these commonly used measures by several orders of magnitude.
  
  An alternative approach could have been to not use heroic measures to save virus victims of over (say) 80. They just get palliative care. This lock down is not about saving lives. It is about avoiding the health care system being overwhelmed.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:37am
  - fernglas
    
    The value of a life in NZ is $4.1 million according to the NZTA. That is about the same as in OZ where the personal injury industry values it.
    
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    April 6, 2020 9:49am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      OK so if these measures save (say) 10,000 lives (that seems a lot) that is $41 billion. But presumably we discount the number if half of the folk saved are over 80. Either way it does not meet any of the cost benefit tests that we apply in our health system every day.
      
      And it gets worse. How many lives will be destroyed? How many suicides?
      
      It sure puts all the wittering of the last 2 years about ‘wellbeing’ to the sword.
      
      15 1
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      April 6, 2020 10:05am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Am I still worth $4.1m at 80 and my wife the same at 52?
      
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      April 6, 2020 11:18am
RRM

Starring to seriously wish covid 19 had happened under a National government.

(Not because I imagine they’d do much different, look at Bridges’ comments about the lockdown)

But if we had a National government imposing all of this, at least we would be seeing a healthy level of contempt and criticism of the government right now from the lefty luvvies in the media, and the left wing hoarde on failbook.

Instead of this wall-to-wall sycophancy that we are seeing instead.

Please, Miss! Take away MORE of my freedom! Take my job and livelihood too! I know you’ll provide for my every need! Praise Comrade Napo- I mean, Praise Comrade Jacinduh!
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April 6, 2020 9:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  True. DPF would have post after post lauding Bridges’s heroic leadership, and Kiwiblog commenters would be lashing out at anyone who had the temerity to criticise his all-seeing wisdom.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:03am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Butchers would remain open. Everything else closed.
    
    4 22
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    April 6, 2020 10:35am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Yes, probably. But there are lots of people who don’t read Kiwiblog and instead rely on TV1, TV3 or Stuff for their news. Those people would be getting much stronger analysis and criticism of the official position.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:50am
- Ruahine
  
  Please save my job at Metro and N&S and The Listener as well as the Womans Weekly and we will write heaps of luvly stories about you as a struggling new Mum with great air brushed pictures.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:42am
- david
  
  And also, ”please miss, call me by my first name during a press conference on National Television, and just the word Kind in your answer, please, please, pretty please”
  
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  April 6, 2020 12:35pm
Loddenthinks

It’s just been announced that Scotland’s chief medical officer, Dr Catherine Calderwood, has resigned after it emerged she had failed to adhere to her own social distancing guidelines by visiting her second home.

Earlier on Saturday, police issued a warning to Dr Calderwood over the incident, while Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the chief medical officer had “made a mistake”, but that she needed her to remain in her position.

The high-profile medic has been among those urging the public to stay at home to save lives and to protect the NHS.

I’m quite sure David Clark will now also resign, despite his equally stupid leader saying some nonsense about charity, or something. Just to b on the safe side, I won’t be holding my breath.
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April 6, 2020 9:24am
- cmm
  
  Calderwood is not a politician. That’s where she went wrong.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:36am
- KH
  
  Yep Clark will resign for sure. Cough. Because the Labs willdo the right thing. Choke.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:09am
lastmanstanding

Talking to a young guy who teaches English in Sapporo. Flew home via Harita Saturday. Plane full of Kiwis doing the same,

Not tested at airport and told if he feels OK in 5 days he can go out and about.
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April 6, 2020 9:30am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Where is Harita? Do you mean Haneda?
  
  6 2
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  April 6, 2020 9:48am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Sorry. Narita.
    
    8 0
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    April 6, 2020 9:55am
- kowtow
  
  WTF have we been doing lock down for in that case ?
  
  Media Party need to put the hard questions at the daily press conference.
  
  22 2
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  April 6, 2020 9:53am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Yeah right….
    
    8 1
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    April 6, 2020 12:10pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Great work there Cindy!
  
  So the quarantine period starts again with every one of these clowns let back into the country!
  
  15 2
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  April 6, 2020 10:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern describes this “our borders being locked down.”
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:20am
Lance

It was hilarious on the AM show this morning. Duncan was suggesting to Cindy that she should employ John Key to head our recovery strategy.
She changed the narrative twice before refusing point blank to answer.
The lefties are so bloody tribal
Not to mention they would rather chew off their own right arm than have John Key (or Bill English) involved with anything they can control.
Whereas John Key would promote anyone who was best suited to the job, including supporting Helen Clark for head of the UN.
The left are so one dimensional
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April 6, 2020 9:38am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If it were not for his unfortunate illness, I am positive Sir Michael Cullen would haven been given that job.
  
  19 1
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  April 6, 2020 9:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Just shows how massive the administrative talent vacuum is on the left.
    
    14 1
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    April 6, 2020 11:23am
- doggone7
  
  On the grounds of equal rights I put forward:
  The righties are so bloody tribal. The right are so one dimensional.
  
  There you go, when one has a wider view and isn’t one dimensional the real picture can be seen and told as it is.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:57am
  - Lance
    
    Keen for you to show examples of National not including ‘competent’ lefties?
    
    16 1
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    April 6, 2020 10:34am
- Ruahine
  
  The first thing he would do is quarantine everyone arriving in the country. Like what should have been happening since March 1st.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:44am
Gravelroad

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II – still a class act at 94.
49 2
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April 6, 2020 9:40am
- krazykiwi
  
  May she live forever …. because the chap waiting to replace her, the guy who claims he’ll be an activist king will be a disaster.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:25am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I think the first thing we should do after recovery is to go republic and change the NZ flag to Red Peak.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:32am
  - MrTips
    
    Stuff the homeless and unemployed eh Martin?
    Nice.
    
    16 2
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    April 6, 2020 11:03am
  - Lance
    
    I thought only evil John Key wanted to change the flag? All good lefties must keep the flag as it is, thus sayeth Labour.
    Or was that only because John Key put the referendum forward?
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:34am
- MrTips
  
  https://twitter.com/Queen_UK/status/1246876485719392257
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:53am
- Gravelroad
  
  To the downticker here- I wonder what you will be doing when you are 94? If you get that far.
  If you don’t like royalty, or the commenter, fair enough, but shame if you can’t admire a woman who, at her advanced age, can still appear on TV and talk sense. She illustrates a lifetime of leadership and I admire her for it.
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:43pm
KH

Paywave. Actually a sneaky bankers plot to increase fees. (they can’t charge fees on eftpos) Paywave is credit card only.
Thus and very wisely merchants avoid paywave. But now itvs useful because of the virus.
Solution. Banks don’t charge fees on paywave. (Just like they don’t on eftpos)
Or. They allow paywave on eftpos.
Time for banks to step up.
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April 6, 2020 9:44am
- MCos
  
  ‘Paywave is credit card only.’
  
  No it’s not
  
  8 1
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  April 6, 2020 10:11am
  - Batman
    
    Well, it’s on debit and credit cards so if one is running an old school eftpos card it won’t have paywave.
    
    But yes you are correct it isn’t just for credit cards 🙂
    
    6 0
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    April 6, 2020 10:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  PayWave is limited to $80.
  
  3 1
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  April 6, 2020 11:23am
  - Ed Snack
    
    $80 without other verification isn’t it ?
    
    5 0
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    April 6, 2020 11:48am
  - jonno1
    
    … without a PIN.
    
    3 1
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    April 6, 2020 12:34pm
JibberJabber

Trish Sherson on the AM Show
‘David Clark has been as useful as a teddy bear in a window”
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April 6, 2020 9:48am
- Loddenthinks
  
  As much use as a chocolate teapot.
  
  17 1
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  April 6, 2020 10:18am
  - Pheobe
    
    A parachute in a submarine.
    
    3 0
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    April 6, 2020 6:46pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Note:
  The Scottish minister of health, publicly apologized to the people for breaking her own lock down rule.
  Our Minister of Health……………
  
  16 1
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  April 6, 2020 10:21am
- emmess
  
  Specifically, a Winnie the Pooh teddy bear.
  
  7 1
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  April 6, 2020 11:57am
igm

I do not think this is fair to our local Kiwi operated and owned butcheries that are forced into closure with millions of dollars of stock going to waste.
Why are these allowed to open?
cook street halal butchery palmerston north
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April 6, 2020 9:54am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Be thankful and go get your meat there regardless.
  Call for govt . to open all butchers.
  
  11 1
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  April 6, 2020 10:18am
  - igm
    
    I would become a vegan rather than support them, they get too much from NZ taxpayers/ratepayers and PTPM already.
    
    10 4
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    April 6, 2020 11:33am
- Ruahine
  
  Special rules for Arderns special people.
  
  18 1
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  April 6, 2020 10:47am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    I guess they’re not really one of us then?
    
    12 1
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    April 6, 2020 12:47pm
- MCos
  
  You’re talking about Palmy Food City, which looks like a ethnic supperette?
  There are many larger versions of the same sort of establishment in Auckland. We went to one yesterday to pick up Asian cooking ingredients not usually available in the mainstream supermarkets.
  
  2 5
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  April 6, 2020 11:57am
  - igm
    
    They should be closed forthwith.
    Anyone coming to NZ should be prepared to eat our food, abide by our laws, and not expect a government to use them as a political tool, reaping more in living costs than a hard working business operator.
    
    8 3
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    April 6, 2020 12:49pm
    - MCos
      
      ‘Anyone coming to NZ should be prepared to eat our food‘
      People can eat whatever they like.
      Personally I quite like Thai food, but when I lived there I was quite partial to a burger and chips once in awhile. Fortunately the locals over there are more tolerant than your type.
      
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      April 6, 2020 6:24pm
burt

It’s a pity this level of accountability isn’t applied to all governments.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/120833758/coronavirus-us-wasted-months-before-preparing-for-pandemic

Imagine how we’d be reporting the NZ response if our PM was an old white male.
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April 6, 2020 9:54am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Ignoring one fact.
  Trump banned all travel from Chine in the middle of January.
  One of the first to do so.
  and was called a racist for doing so.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:17am
  - burt
    
    Imagine if Trump had tried to keep his country open so he could gave a public gathering with international visitors in mid March then at the last minute canned that and bolted into lockdown saying he had acted swiftly.
    
    28 4
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    April 6, 2020 10:48am
  - Ed Snack
    
    January 31 actually, be accurate. Setup the CV Commission to orchestrate the response a few days before, 28th I think.
    
    At the same time prominent Democrats were encouraging social mingling and major events like Mardi Gras and Chinese festival in SF. But it’s all Trump’s fault doncha know ?
    
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    April 6, 2020 11:51am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Why are some US states refusing to order social distancing?
      
      1 9
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      April 6, 2020 1:11pm
      - cmm
        
        You’ll have to ask the governors of those states.
        
        12 1
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        April 6, 2020 1:31pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Perhaps because the situation is quite different in some states. Those without lockdown are midwestern and western sparsely populated states with often quite isolated communities.
        
        Lockdown may not be the most appropriate action in such places.
        
        For now, those doing worst are places that encouraged mass-mingling despite warnings – and in some cases they did so to spite Trump. NY City with its Mayor come to mind as an example of that.
        
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        April 6, 2020 2:37pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yup, and many media networks, including CNN were saying that it was nothing to worry about –
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDPVBZF2Xg
    
    The media are PATHETIC…
    
    6 2
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    April 6, 2020 4:01pm
    - Fletch
      
      ps, remember on just February 24th when Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown and urged people to come out to join them. It was basically an anti-Trump exercise to show how it was racist to blame China for the virus.
      
      “We want to be vigilant about what is out there in other places. We want to be careful about how we deal with it, but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown. Here we are, careful, safe and come join us.’”
      
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      April 6, 2020 4:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ps, remember not everything in the US is Democrat bad; Republican good. FWIW, it doesn’t look like any politician there took any timely action, and some governors, for example are still fiddling while Rome burns.
        
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        April 6, 2020 5:08pm
    - Nickc2
      
      and Joe Biden has come out and said it was the right thing to do. Who would have guessed? I wonder who had their hand up Biden’s arse?
      
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      April 6, 2020 4:37pm
colinm

I see that http://www.nanny.kiwi domain is still available.
Hmm, how does Nark a Neighbour Now You sound. 🙂
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April 6, 2020 9:58am
RW Capitalist

Q:
If this solely a health driven response to Covid 19.
1. Why did they cancel ALL clinical community nursing visits at the time of lock down?
2. Why has my wife, who has serious heart and lung problems, only now just received her FIRST phone call from a nurse, since lock down?
3. How busy are the medical staff in hospitals, with only 15 hospitalized Covid 19 patients?
3a. and why did they cancel ALL elective surgeries? Surely this leaves them plenty of time to deal with the 15 inpatients considering there are zero community visits.
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April 6, 2020 10:13am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Impertinent questions??
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:15am
  - Ed Snack
    
    The reduction in hospital patients is not only to free up space for potential COVID-19 patients, but also to reduce nosomical (hospital transmitted) infections of the virus. In Italy such transmission may be a major vector.
    
    Given that they could define and isolate certain sections of a hospital as COVID-19 only areas, they do seem to have over reacted. A lot of GP’s are pulling out of practice because they can’t see patients and have no income.
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:01pm
  - cmm
    
    Very impertinent.
    
    Canterbury DHB has zero Covid patients, but Chch hospital is completely closed for pretty much everything except acute/emergency.
    
    You can’t really have nosocomial if there is no Covid in the hospital.
    
    Heart/cancer outpatients waiting for critical tests? Forget about it, even though they don’t go into the main hospital (wards and such).
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A District Nurse has been calling daily at our house in Christchurch after some recent surgery of one our inmates. That only ceased a few days ago after her assistance completed.
  Was our bubble being burst?– it wasn’t the same nurse each day.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:28am
Loddenthinks

Haven’t seen any comment at all in the NZ MSM about the islamic terror attack in France on Saturday (northern time).

A “knifeman” killed two people, wounded several others and was arrested while kneeling on the ground, praying in arabic.

“Prosecutors did not identify the suspect. They said he had no identifying documents but claimed to be Sudanese and to have been born in 1987.

During a subsequent search of his home, authorities found handwritten documents that included arguments about religion and a complaint about living in a “country of unbelievers”, officials said.

The prosecutor’s office did not confirm reports that the man shouted “Allahu akbar” (God is great) as he stabbed and slashed people.”
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April 6, 2020 10:15am
- cmm
  
  The Mallard excuse: I’m a bit deaf in that ear. I didn’t hear what he said.
  
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  April 6, 2020 12:53pm
hullkiwi

Because of media perpetuated fraud. All meat killed in NZ for resale conforms to halal requirements.
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April 6, 2020 10:37am
- Batman
  
  No, only some of the big meatworks which do export stuff along with domestic.
  
  Your regular local slaughterhouse won’t do halal.
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:51am
  - Ed Snack
    
    All of the larger meatworks, including any that export. Only domestic only and home slaughter don’t to Halal as a matter of course. And those are pretty small in general.
    
    Supermarkets typically source from a larger site (but not only) so they would always have a supply of Halal meat. Allowing specific halal butchers to open is blatant pandering in the circumstances.
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:05pm
    - Paulus
      
      Don’t think my Pork Chop are Halal are they ?
      
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      April 6, 2020 2:00pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Probably not, but with some very limited exceptions, plants have different chains to handle the different types of animals. The animal handling equipment and fit-out is quite different for Beef, Lamb/Mutton, and Pigs. Deer and Horses have different needs again. One sort of exception is that Bobby calves are normally killed at Lamb plants as the sizes are equivalent.
        
        So Pigs are usually killed at separate plants or at the very least, at separate chains and processing rooms from Lamb or Beef.
        
        And no, never Halal or Kosher either !
        
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        April 6, 2020 3:10pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Batman, the only slaughtermen not doing Halal are home kill. That meat is not available for resale.
    
    Where do you think Halal butchers get their meat?
    
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    April 6, 2020 2:43pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I have my doubts. God’s name must be invoked in a one-line blessing called the Tasmiyah, said before any slaughter.
  
  Most of the chaps I know from the meat works invoke God’s name pretty much continuously but not, I suspect, a way approved by the local cleric, or the local pastor for that matter 😉
  
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  April 6, 2020 10:55am
  - Ed Snack
    
    There is usually a specific slaughter man, who must be Islamic and certified by an appropriate Islamic agency. and a back person. Only the actual slaughterer is involved, the rest of the kill chain staff need not be Islamic.
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:07pm
hullkiwi

Did anyone else catch Winston’s attempt for relevance this morning. He has been behind a petition to get the Eagle police helicopter returned to Auckland.

Why?

Why hasn’t Christchurch got a police helicopter anyhow?
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April 6, 2020 10:40am
- burt
  
  If he’s doing this he must think he might need it to get to a hospital from his holiday home. With Winston the explanation for his actions is always self serving.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:06am
  - Ceepar
    
    Why is Winston allowed to go to his holiday home when we have been told people shouldn’t go to their holiday home?
    I know, I know, one rule for us…
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:18pm
    - burt
      
      4 legs good comrade, all animals are equal.
      
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      April 6, 2020 1:34pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        and if pigs are more equal than others, the chief pig, should be allowed to go to his holiday home.
        
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        April 6, 2020 1:43pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Can’t see the point of that petition.
  I live in central Auckland and we regularly have the police helicopter flying around us, including yesterday.
  
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  April 6, 2020 11:31am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Time to go straight Alex, just sayin’ 😛
    
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    April 6, 2020 1:40pm
    - alex Masterley
      
      Yes, the police take a dim view of the suggestion that delivering lawnmowers to clients is an essential service.
      
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      April 7, 2020 7:25am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Change your business name to ‘Law ‘n Mowers’ and you should be right.
        
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        April 7, 2020 7:39am
trout

Auckland City Council is in for a shock; the Auckland Airport shares they have clung on to (for ideological reasons) which could have been sold for megabucks and paid down some of their humungous debt are now worth bugger all with no dividend to be paid in to the future. But that is not all; AIA are now into a massive capital raising to cover their arse and Auckland city will have to cough up millions or have their holding diluted. Local bodies should not own Company stock.
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April 6, 2020 11:07am
- mark15
  
  Is that so they can fix the runway?
  
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  April 6, 2020 12:59pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I can’t entirely agree, especially with regards to key infrastructure. Wellington City Council owns 33% of Wellington Airport, and Tauranga City Council owns 100% of Tauranga Airport.
  
  I’m sure there are other examples, including ownership of ports.
  
  In most cases this is a historical issue, where all the infrastructure was owned by central or local government, and in many cases they have retained the shares to keep their hands in, as it were.
  
  There’s also invariably a hue and cry from the great unwashed whenever a Council sells off part or all of their infrastructure shares – cries of “selling off the family silver” and such like.
  
  What I 100% agree with is that Councils should not be in the slightest bit involved in managing these assets; they’re invariably useless at running anything.
  
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  April 6, 2020 1:48pm
MrTips

Dear diary
Day 13:
– Hot on the heels of throwing the scales away comes the awful realisation its gonna take more than 14 days to flatten the curves developing in Chez Tips .
– Have found young adult children in flat bubble who mack off your Netflix suddenly contact more often when you change the password. Pavlov would be impressed.
– Wonder how the anti-vaxx brigade are feeling right now? Conflicted much?
– QEII looked very disappointed with Charles. He’s only 71 for God’s sake and he got COVID. Toughen up lughead.
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April 6, 2020 11:25am
Tauhei Notts

Today’s NZ Herald cartoon showed an elderly man who had been reading one of Neville Shute’s books alone on a beach. The weather became too hot and he went for a cooling down dip. Mr Plod came along and went ballistic.
That old man should have been reading John Mulgan’s epic; Man Alone. For he was alone and doing no harm to anybody.
There has been a nauseating trend in recent NZ Herald cartoons.
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April 6, 2020 11:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I loved “On the Beach”.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(novel)
  
  and his Autobiography “Slide Rule”
  
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  April 6, 2020 12:05pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Slide rule was fascinating. He was a mathematical calculator for Barnes Wallis when that person designed the R100 airship that successfully flew to Canada and back before the (government funded) R101 disaster stopped the whole Airship concept in the UK in its tracks.
    
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    April 6, 2020 12:09pm
oldfella

This is great. Very entertaining Aussie journo with a brutal takedown of the Chinese govt. Worth a read.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/tim-blair/via-local-commie-underlings-beijing-officially-disapproves/news-story/491b415795fbbdc526d33d5b569134a4
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April 6, 2020 12:25pm
Inandout

During this lock down I have rediscovered computer Scrabble on my ancient Vista laptop. OK it is CD Rom so has the odd hesitation when it respins, but what amazes me is that it won’t work on later Win versions because Hasbro hasn’t developed any. Anyway this Scrabble (Webster dictionary) is a great mind expander because it has different levels of expertise and if you have Vista or previous I recommend it.
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April 6, 2020 12:45pm
Nickc2

NZers in Australia on the wrong visa told to get out. Who didn’t see that coming? Thanks Cindy, you should have kept your big mouth shut. You are not and never will be the PM of Australia.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/04/jacinda-adern-has-another-crack-at-telling-us-how-to-run-australia-.html
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April 6, 2020 12:46pm
- burt
  
  I’m expecting that after this outcome we’ll suddenly start hearing about the role Key played in making it happen. The MSM will dutifully report how Jacinda had advised against his actions and is disappointed that he brought this about.
  
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  April 6, 2020 1:38pm
- Grant
  
  Did you check out the comments section following that article?
  No Arderne fan bois and goils amongst that lot.
  G
  
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  April 6, 2020 2:44pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes Grant, I just did.
    I am well aware that NZ can become part of Australia and why. I lived and worked in NSW for 25+ years and If I didn’t hear that comment at least once a week, I knew I had a bad week.
    As for the other comments, yes, an Aussie giving an NZer the shits about anything is par for the course until you return it in spades.
    I remember the Aussies having an intense dislike for Helen Clark when she wouldn’t hold up her end of the Defence Relationship between Aust. and NZ and I must admit, I did agreed with them, so I was OK. The Air NZ involvement in the demise of ANSET didn’t go down real well either. Luckily, I had taken out Aust. Citizenship by then.
    
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    April 6, 2020 3:51pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZR-EGGLtU

Conservatives want to sue China. Good luck with that. They want 351 billion pounds in damages. Comprehensive investigation sought. CCP to blame. China had signed up to various treaties on the pandemic subject. Poms have raised their threat level from miffed to peeved. Readers can do their own ‘sanctions’, by leaving Chinese goods on the shelf.
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April 6, 2020 1:18pm
- Inandout
  
  curry, I studiously walk past Pam’s Chinese food products but in places like the Warehouse you may as well not shop there if you don’t want Chinese goods.
  
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  April 6, 2020 4:35pm
  - curry4me
    
    Inandout: That might change after the lockdowns are over. I think people will expect stores to display some diversity in their sourcing of goods. Given that the CCP is to blame for this.
    
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    April 6, 2020 7:48pm
Critical Thinker

NZ on day 12 of the dystopian economic suicide lockdown:
13 currently in hospital. 3 of them are in ICU.
911 confirmed cases of the China Coronavirus.
176 recovered.
1 died with the China Coronavirus (Woman 73 years old, that already had an underlying chronic health condition, whom refused to be put on a ventilator).
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April 6, 2020 1:41pm
RW Capitalist

I just saw something on TV.
A 3D online printing club.
They get together online and print components for face masks etc.
I personally don’t have one, but, something we could do here?
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April 6, 2020 1:42pm
- Jules99
  
  I saw something similar at my local library for kids. They had help designing things which were printed out on a 3D printer, so the tech is here.
  
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  April 6, 2020 1:59pm
- marcw
  
  The technology for 3D printing is in fact well and truly here RW. There are printers and expertise which can and have produced a complete internal-combustion petrol engine (made out of titanium), and there is currently in progress a project to create a full sized small commuter plane. All constucted by 3D printing.
  
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  April 6, 2020 2:10pm
- Fletch
  
  You can use the plans here –
  
  https://www.makethemasks.com/3d-printing
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:38pm
tui47

Had a bit of excitement on my daily walk with teenage son. Took a different route around Newmarket and up Great South Road. As we walked up Great South Road a banged up car with four particularly rough looking females took off from the side of the road and three very obvious gang members swaggered towards us. I very quietly told my teenager to give them a wide berth. A cop car tore past chasing the females in the car. About 5 minutes later at least five cop cars sirens blaring tore towards us and pulled up beside us. Teenager was initially horrified until that we realised the cops were here for the crummy motel beside us. People poured out onto the road so I asked what was going on. The motel owner told me that the Government had commissioned their motels for the homeless, including those with links to the gangs. They were having huge problems with their new ‘residents’. The gang members had been having domestics and had been smashing both the motel and each other up all morning. They had smashed up the glass bus shelter outside the motel. The women in the car had apparently come to take away the female involved and now the males were making their get away. The motel owner said it was impossible to keep them in isolation. Of course this situation will only get worse over the next two weeks. Also passed the Greenlane Novotel where travellers in forced quarantine are being held. There were about five security men and Police guarding the entrance.
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April 6, 2020 2:11pm
- Inandout
  
  Thanks for that first hand account tui47 because a motel owner in the Hamilton place we stayed at a few weeks back told us hardly a week goes by without WINZ contacting him. They were prepared to pay anything but this motel is in beautiful condition and he declines all WINZ offers. I know he owns the motel so he should be OK, but the poor buggers on leases are stuffed. When this shit is all over and you want to book a motel please ask the owner whether they have homeless residents; they must inform you.
  
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  April 6, 2020 2:34pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Loddenthinkjs at 10.47, Tui47 and Inandout;
    You people give us the news that we should get from newspapers; but the newspapers are too scared to give us the news.
    My grateful thanks to the three of you.
    
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    April 6, 2020 3:32pm
- Nickc2
  
  Tui47, contact Carmel Sepuloni and tell her about it! See what sort of assurances you can get that your safety and that of the teenager will not be jeopardised because of her and her Government’s dangerous ill-conceived actions.
  Also remind her that it’s your taxes that keeps her and her fellow travellers (MPs) in a job. Demand value and safety for money.
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:29pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Government had commissioned their motels for the homeless
  
  WTAF? Which law allows private property to be unilaterally commissioned by the state?
  
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  April 6, 2020 4:02pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I think it goes something like this.
    
    Motel is (more or less) empty. Someone from MSD rocks up – “we want to rent the whole place. Full price and you can have a 12-month contract even.”
    
    Probably issues with noise, feralism and damage. OTOH some of these people have been in cars and garages and 10 to a 3-br dump and are truly grateful.
    
    You have an empty motel – not of lot of tourists coming in the next 12 months – what to do … ?
    
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    April 6, 2020 5:09pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yeah fair enough. I got the impression the arrangement was forced on the owner. It is was a bilateral arrangement then whatever issues arise are theirs to manage.
      
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      April 6, 2020 5:23pm
Martin Williams

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Why is Simon driving up and down the country willy-nilly?

Has he not heard of Skype?
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April 6, 2020 2:14pm
- MrTips
  
  Why is Winston holed up in his bach? Why is Clark in DNE? Why is Trevor riding all over the place? So many questions Martin, better ask that overblown “strategist” Clint Smith. He’s always good for a mouthful of nothing.
  
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  April 6, 2020 2:29pm
  - calendar girl
    
    “Why is Winston holed up in his bach?”
    
    When the rest of us are not permitted to travel to our holiday homes?
    
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    April 6, 2020 4:39pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why is Martin blurting tripe on here willy-nilly?
  Has he not heard of shutting the f**k up?
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:31pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Lefties – never know when enough shit is enough
    
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    April 6, 2020 3:50pm
- Prince
  
  Have you watched the skype coverage of that select committee ? Take a look at the Commisioner of Police, Day 2 I think. Question asked, long gap while he sat there, about 10 seconds later question came through his speaker. He answered, long gap etc etc.
  Skpe can’t cope with 20-odd boomers on line, most of whom have no idea how to use the technology.
  
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  April 6, 2020 6:13pm
Chuck Bird

I heard Dr Bloomfield say random testing of those with no symptoms or suspected contact would require 100,000 tests to be of any value.

I know some basic probability theory but am no expert. Having said that the 100,000 figure seems a bit high.

If we do not do random testing but test for an industry like warehouse workers processing orders for online shoppers and found no transmission we could then expand to just allow online shopping for NZ businesses.

DPF should know a bit about stats.
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April 6, 2020 2:21pm
- mark15
  
  I heard Dr Bloomfield say random testing of those with no symptoms or suspected contact would require 100,000 tests to be of any value.
  That’s code for ‘we don’t have enough tests for healthy people’
  
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  April 6, 2020 3:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is why visitors come breezing through the Airport and given a bit of paper. Check the rubbish bins outside – they will be full of the Govt instructions.
    Not being enforced and PTPM fucking knows it!!
    
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    April 6, 2020 3:53pm
    - lifesgood
      
      You only have to watch that Border Patrol programme to see what people get up to and how they lie and cheat and go out of their way to flout the law. How naive can this stupid woman be?
      
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      April 6, 2020 4:23pm
  - cmm
    
    ” 100,000 tests to be of any value.”
    
    Anyone that knows anything about statistics would raise their eyebrows at that number.
    
    10k would do the job fine.
    
    But it is almost worthless gathering antigen-based test data. what is required is antibody testing. AFAIK, that is not available yet.
    
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    April 6, 2020 4:05pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      cmm, I would not be concerned if the figure came from Cindy but it came from Dr Bloomfield. He did not work it out but claimed some expert did.
      
      As I said I am no expert but look at the political polls just before the election in NZ. Many people claim a thousand is not enough but look at the results.
      
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      April 6, 2020 8:53pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      antigen-based test can give up 30% false negatives. However, if you test each person twice a few days apart that greatly reduces that number.
      
      2 1
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      April 6, 2020 9:11pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Those numbers seem well out of range.
  At the 95% confidence level less than 1100 random samples are sufficient between 50,000 and 5 million population with a +/- 3% error range. It’s under 2,000 random samples to extend the confidence to 99%. It takes more to reduce the error bar width but it also takes judgement to apply these outcomes.
  
  A simple DIY calculator:-
  https://surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
  
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  April 6, 2020 5:27pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Thanks, Kev. See my comment above to cmm.
    It disturbs me that some so called expert comes up with the 100,000 figure or did Dr Bloomfield make it up?
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:55pm
Hard Cheese

I just received the AA Directions magazine in the post. Why are the AA are allowed to publish this, yet Bauer can’t send you the Listener or North & South? Not sure a motoring magazine is all that essential, since you can’t actually go anywhere in your car.
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April 6, 2020 2:21pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yep, and we received the NZ Motor Caravan Association magazine in the post on Saturday – can’t go anywhere in the campervan either!
  
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  April 6, 2020 6:22pm
- MCos
  
  Probably printed before the hammer came down.
  
  First time I heard of someone complaining about getting what they’d paid for.
  
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  April 6, 2020 6:36pm
Happychappy

Another academic from Massey University Suze Wilson having orgasms over Jacinda giving World Leaders a lesson on how to manage the CORID- 19, the problem is Jacinda hasn’t handled it that well and more credit should given to those around that have the wisdom to fix mistakes that those in charge were making.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12322719
Jacinda can’t be told and the COVID – 19 has not been wiped out with cold weather to come at the end of the week it wouldn’t pay to celebrate to early and end up falling on your face.
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April 6, 2020 2:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Yes, you do have enforcement capacity at your disposal. But success or failure hinges on getting most people to choose to follow your leadership – even though it demands sudden, unsettling, unprecedented changes to their daily lives.”
  
  What leadership? Jacinda Ardern is a Part Time Prime Minister. She disappears at the slightest hint of a hard question. She fails to answer anything unless she digresses from the question.
  Let us not pick on the PTPM. The Minister of fucking health breaks the rules and gets an E blowjob. Winston is over 70 – gone underground.
  Wonder what all the other fuckheads are doing?
  Trev? Megan? Grant? Twitford? Then all of the hide behind types. Dyson? Wallace? Supeloni?
  
  On the other side wtf happened to Melissa Lee?
  
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  April 6, 2020 4:21pm
- krazykiwi
  
  That is a nauseating read. Wilson’s sycophancy drips from every sentence.
  
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  April 6, 2020 4:25pm
Wired-one

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/coronavirus-govt-able-to-work-effectively-with-private-sector-without-sir-john-key-s-help-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern.html

Wake up Ardern you idiot. Your government cannot deliver anything. Your government is full of never had a real job, moronic, out of their depth lightweights. Call John, Bill and Steven today.
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April 6, 2020 3:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oh, she is awake. Comprehension is the problem.
  Oh, look, another camera >>>>>>>>
  
  19 3
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  April 6, 2020 3:55pm
- Poppa
  
  The princess will never do that wired, she is the answer to everything….not
  
  She is far too self centred
  
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  April 6, 2020 6:34pm
Poppa

I just don’t believe anything we are being told about these numbers. Why are we getting probables added to the total when they are unconfirmed?

And when they are confirmed as negative are they deducted? I know the answer to that of course

I get the distinct feeling we have been lied to all along.

What I am seeing is that the numbers are pathetically low given what they have done to our country.

Cindy is loving the power, she is drunk on it
29 3
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April 6, 2020 3:37pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnkJ8_BmSI
  
  2 1
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  April 6, 2020 4:36pm
Fletch

I found half a packet of milk bottles I’d hidden in a drawer back in about January! ?
9 1
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April 6, 2020 4:05pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  It’s the green fuzz that ads to the flavour.
  
  2 0
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  April 6, 2020 4:34pm
- Ceepar
  
  Score.
  
  2 0
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  April 6, 2020 7:11pm
Maggy Wassilieff

some light reading?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-06/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-leadership/12124300
9 1
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April 6, 2020 4:07pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh woops…
  Happychappy has already alerted us to this…
  It looks like The Herald and ABC news have recirculated the original article in “The Conversation”.
  
  8 1
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  April 6, 2020 4:11pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  read the title and nearly puked on my key board.
  
  6 0
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  April 6, 2020 4:33pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Written by someone at Massey Uni
  
  Say no more
  
  8 0
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  April 6, 2020 6:52pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    That writer from Massey University is easily one of the media’s most objective, unbiased commentators in aotearoa!
    Her prior tertiary (and other) union associations and connections with Labour Party figures matter not one jot! Cindy’s the real deal…
    
    6 2
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    April 6, 2020 7:47pm
niggly

Well at least “rule breaker” Raymond Coombs did the right thing by admitting he was wrong and offered a public apology.

Perhaps David Clarke could learn from him and do the same?

Yeah, right – Tui Billboard ad moment for sure!
10 2
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April 6, 2020 4:07pm
Doubledimp

Interesting questions; when was the last time you saw a Minority Party MP on TV? NZ First, Greens or ACT?
10 2
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April 6, 2020 4:44pm
- curry4me
  
  Doubledimp: David Seymour, and Beth Houlbrook appear in my FB newsfeed regularly. So do the New Conservatives. Forget the MSM.
  
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  April 6, 2020 7:57pm
MrTips

Jacinda cares about lives. And the Easter bunny. She has decreed it.

Meanwhile doctors and healthworkers are shit scared of not having enough PPE and being bullied to take what they have off, because David Clark is AWOL and Jacinda has other things to do with Hillary Barry or someone else. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322537

I am hearing more and more through the grapevine that Clark is openly despised and Cindy is a close second by the coal face docs.
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April 6, 2020 5:16pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  I imagine your grapevine is in the back yard where you go to talk to yourself.
  You have no idea at all why David Clark is in Dunedin. Southern DHB is in a bit of a crisis at the moment. I wonder if there’s a case for him being able to sort out some stuff down there?
  Honestly, I wonder, between here and Facebook with all the 5G causes Coronavirus posts if we have all the conspiracies covered yet.
  
  2 19
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  April 6, 2020 7:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Um spa pool seems to be OK as long as you don’t try and swim.
How about BBQ – if you have enough LPG left?
6 3
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April 6, 2020 5:34pm
krazykiwi

It’s a miracle!

In 2020 the US has had thousands fewer deaths from pneumonia every week!. Just look at that chart.

Hmmm … I wonder why that might be?
6 1
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April 6, 2020 5:46pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  You still have the problem of those semi-trailers parked outside NY hospitals to take away the dead, and CCU’s in Central Park. You beginning to seem to be in desperate denial that America is the latest epicentre of CV. It’s actually the flu right?
  
  1 6
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  April 6, 2020 8:44pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    No desperate denial at all. I follow the actual data, not the outrage/sensational/narrative-driven media. I presume you blogged/tweeted/facebooked your dismay at what you saw in person outside those hospitals?
    
    How do you interpret the massive drop in pneumonia deaths, which coincides with the arrival of Covid-19?
    
    I’m genuinely interested.
    
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    April 6, 2020 10:18pm
Simon Gotlieb

So, I’ve been waiting all day for all those people who’ve been asking for David Clark to resign for driving 2.3kms to a park to ask for Simon Bridges to resign for driving 1000kms so that he could get better internet for his zoom calls.
Nothing?
No surprises there.
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April 6, 2020 6:07pm
- MrTips
  
  He’s alone in a car, driving to work, in an essential occupation. So what? If he stopped for a bit of mountain biking, then yeah, you might have a point. But ……nah….no cigar buddy.
  
  20 4
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  April 6, 2020 6:11pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    What. A. Fucking. Hypocrite. You. Are.
    
    2 23
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    April 6, 2020 7:12pm
    - MrTips
      
      Put the beer down Simon. Bridges has a constitutional job to do, regardless of what you personally think. Clark on the other hand SHOULD be Wgtn and hes not – he fucking AWOL right when he should be doing something. He and Cindy are so fucking useless, Tindall/Hart/Mowbray and co off their own back went to China and had to source PPE independent of the MoH.
      
      Save your tantrum for Clark. Worst M of Health ever ?
      
      21 3
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      April 6, 2020 7:21pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Not a tantrum MrTips. More an observation on the absolute hypocrisy of this site. I don’t actually think Clark would do any better being in Wellington. We have DGOH here, and somebody needs to be on the ground in Dunedin as well, and everything he needs to do can be sorted from there via internet. You gotta hand it to the previous National government – giving us decent internet was the best thing they did, bless them.
        As for worst minister of health, Clark would have to go a long way to match George Russell’s record.
        
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        April 6, 2020 8:30pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        “I don’t actually think”
        And there it is
        
        11 0
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        April 6, 2020 8:34pm
    - Tall Man
      
      So I’ve been abused and “warned” by mods yet have never sunk this low. Is this the standard you expect or only from me?
      
      7 0
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      April 6, 2020 8:59pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yes, I’ve been wondering if the mods are having a long dinner….
        
        7 0
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        April 6, 2020 9:30pm
      - Tall Man
        
        There is a comment there Maggy, I’ll refrain at the moment.
        
        3 0
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        April 6, 2020 9:36pm
    - Dougal10
      
      Pot kettle
      
      2 0
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      April 6, 2020 10:02pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Essential service?
  
  2 16
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  April 6, 2020 6:42pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    One wonders how the hypocrites would feel if an emergency room doctor who missed their family in Tauranga went home for the weekend, then back to work on Monday.
    
    6 19
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    April 6, 2020 7:22pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Really? A bunch of downticks is all you’ve got?
  
  What a bunch of fucking hypocrites.
  
  3 25
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  April 6, 2020 6:57pm
  - Wired-one
    
    Bridges is doing parliamentary business was Clark? Nope! Stop bloody trolling.
    
    20 4
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    April 6, 2020 7:01pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Like hell he was. His parliamentary business did not require him to physically be in Wellington. He not only put his family at risk by entering another bubble in Wellington, he put his party at risk by driving 1000kms return to Tauranga, and he put all the people he consorted with in Wellington at risk too.
    Not trolling son. He’s a clown. What he did was far worse than what Clark did, and that was bad enough.
    
    6 23
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    April 6, 2020 7:10pm
  - Tall Man
    
    So the mods leapt on me because I supposedly abused someone. You abuse everyone without sanction. Please explain.
    
    10 1
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    April 6, 2020 9:02pm
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      You see, that’s the difference.
      Me, I’m not specific. I am calling out people on an action, rather than specifically targetting one person.
      The “abuse” you refer to is claiming that everybody who called for David Clark’s resignation for flouting the guidelines is a fucking hypocrite for keeping their mouth shut when Simon Bridges also flouts the guidelines.
      I guess it might be a bit subtle, but that’s my theory.
      
      3 2
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      April 6, 2020 10:42pm
    - Michael NZ
      
      they are mates?
      
      2 1
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      April 6, 2020 11:15pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Clark’s little venture was frivolous..
  Bridges is trying to sort the country out… or haven’t you watched him chairing the Covid-19 committee?
  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/03/in-the-absence-of-parliament-we-must-ensure-new-zealands-response-to-covid-19-is-the-best-it-can-be
  
  18 5
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  April 6, 2020 7:00pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    The Covid-19 committee meets via an internet link. Absolutely no need to travel 1000kms to have a zoom meeting.
    
    6 20
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    April 6, 2020 7:11pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    And as for sorting the country out. Nope, that’s not the purpose of the Covid-19 committee. It has been created to consider the Government’s response to the COVID-19 outbreak. That is a big difference. It’s more to critique than advise.
    
    And not one bit of it requires somebody to hop in the car, drive 500kms to break somebody else’s bubble, and then drive 500kms home to break his family’s bubble as well.
    
    I wonder if he stopped to talk to anyone when he gassed up, eh?
    
    6 21
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    April 6, 2020 7:15pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Perhaps you are worried that Simon Bridges will turn on a more professional show operating out of the beehive than working from his kitchen table..
      https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/simon-bridges-defends-commuting-between-wellington-and-tauranga-during-lockdown/
      
      17 4
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      April 6, 2020 7:58pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        No, I’m actually worried that the clown will create two clusters.
        
        If it’s good enough for me to work from my kitchen table, along with hundreds of thousands of others, it’s good enough for that jumped-up little prick to do so too.
        
        6 16
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        April 6, 2020 8:31pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Uhuh
        Show us your outrage about how Ardern let the Ruby Princess continue its NZ tour and now people are DEAD!
        
        You’re the hypocrite here.
        
        17 3
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        April 6, 2020 8:37pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        You’re right. That was a mistake. Should never have happened. Completely dumb.
        Other countries are still making these mistakes. I see 37,000 people want to leave NZ. I wonder how many of them are asymptomatic? I would be telling them nope, you stay until lockdown ends. Get their countries to pay for their stay.
        
        2 2
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        April 6, 2020 10:39pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      So funny. So when I go to a gas station, I gas up. I sanitise my hands. I go pay through the shield glass thing. I get inside the car. I sanitise my hands. I drive away. In my car bubble.
      
      Risk = zero. FFS I hope you have an excuse.
      
      15 4
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      April 6, 2020 8:47pm
      - Michael NZ
        
        Not for a 1000 Kms
        
        2 2
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        April 6, 2020 11:14pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Really hope you are not taking crazy bubble bursting risks in your day to day life like, say, going to the supermarket. So long as govt continue to fail at fixing that woeful situation everything else you are hyperventilating over is just superficial bollocks demonstrating nothing but your blinkered tribalism.
      
      Bridges and the committee he chairs has one of the most critical jobs in the country – trying to get the useless feckers in the coalition to go against all previous form and do a decent job of managing this crisis. Cos so far they have failed in a major way on critical issues like no border quarantine, not setting sensible boundaries on which businesses to keep closed or open, not rolling out sufficient testing soon enough (and lying about it), wasting money on bad policy (min wage increase) and poorly targeted subsidies (forget tourism the industry is done for), and to hope for any sort of sensible long term damage mitigation plan from their talent vacuum is just futile. Just a couple of weeks back they pissed away $11million on a tourism promotion initiative in response to crisis FFS. They were totally asleep at the wheel until mid-march as so many were screaming for action, with Ardern all focused on raising her profile with an unwanted mid march picking-over-the-corpses event.
      
      In face of all that someone needs to hold their feet to the fire, and call them out when they lie and do dumb shit or fail to plan, because the armies of sycophantic stridently leftie media fangirls are not doing the job that the 4th estate used to do.
      
      4 1
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      April 6, 2020 10:10pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Simon Bridges is extremely lucky that, like David Clark discovered, Jacinda Ardern is capable of looking past a single discretion, and is keeping him in his role chairing the Covid-19 committee.
    Were it a Labour minister doing his job the posters on here would have been screaming for him to be hanged for treason.
    
    4 23
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    April 6, 2020 7:25pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You know Simon…
      I’d rather be considered a “fucking hypocrite” by you than be known as a shill.
      
      18 3
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      April 6, 2020 7:27pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Suit yourself Maggie.
        If shill is the best you’ve got to describe somebody who has a different opinion that you, so be it.
        General debate? Hardly.
        This place is such an echo chamber lately it’s becoming worthless. Even DPF can’t be bothered commenting on it any more. Good on you David. Your geneological research is far more interesting than a bunch of me-too-ers interested only in intellectually jerking each other off.
        
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        April 6, 2020 8:35pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        If you are reduced to the level of the usual trolls on this blog by resorting to vile abuse – “fucking hypocrites”, then you are not really here for a debate or an exchange of ideas, are you?
        
        You are just here to call us Fucking hypocrites.
        
        14 2
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        April 6, 2020 8:44pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Don’t want to be called a fucking hypocrite Maggy?
        Try not being one. You’ve certainly not been shy about having your say about Clark. But yet – nothing about Bridges.
        I’ll amend my accusation. Partisan fucking hypocrites. Prove me wrong.
        
        2 4
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        April 6, 2020 10:21pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        And just to prove I can string a sentence together without swearing, I’ll address the subject of my inability to provide anything in the space of debate.
        You see, I have provided plenty for you to debate. In a debate, opposing arguments are put forward to argue for opposing viewpoints.
        My viewpoint is that Simon Bridges is flaunting the lockdown rules, for an invalid reason. Reason being, he claims he needs to be in Parliament for the tools to do his job, and so he can speak to reporters. Now while it’s quite likely true that it is harder to speak to reporters from Tauranga, it’s not impossible. There’s just less of them there, and he is less likely to be able to big note and get on the telly. As for not having the tools to do his job at home, that’s something he should have sorted long before now, instead of having photo opportunities at supermarkets the day before the lockdown. He has, I am perfectly sure, acceptable internet. The rest of us who are lucky enough to still have jobs are doing so from home; maybe not as well as we can at work but we’re doing okay.
        His arrogance in assuming that he needs to be at parliament makes him look a fool, and his insistence that he is going to continue to break his bubble, and others bubbles, to do so, makes him look like a dangerous one. I’d like to get back to my former life as soon as is practicable, and fools like him are making it less likely that it will be in two and a half weeks time.
        
        This is the bit now where you get to respond with your response. Go for it.
        
        1 4
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        April 6, 2020 10:28pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Simon, I’d like to say it’s been fun watching your apoplexy tonight, but all your mustered outrage does is make you look like a fool. It’s kinda sad. One day you’ll happen across something that’s truly worthy of your vitriol. But that day hasn’t arrived. Keep trying.
        
        3 1
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        April 6, 2020 10:30pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I’d like to get back to my former life as soon as is practicable
        
        Your ‘former life’ is currently being denied you by the worst leader NZ has ever has the misfortune be be governed by. And you’ll never get that life back because of her manifest foolisness. Get over it, and start thinking about how to recover what remains once the extent of Labour’s mismanagement starts to become evident to the masses – you included.
        
        5 1
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        April 6, 2020 10:37pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You have anger management issues. The Leader of the Opposition is doing his essential job. He is not mountain biking.
      
      “Were it a Labour minister doing his job the posters on here would have been screaming for him to be hanged for treason.”
      
      So calm down. Calm down. If a Labour Minister was doing his (sexist pig) or her job, we would be having a smashing celebration 🙂 You have shot yourself in the foot. In the chest. In the head. 🙂 Go have a brandy and come back tomorrow 🙂
      
      12 3
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      April 6, 2020 8:42pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Don’t have brandy. Had a whisky instead.
        I still think most people here are dickheads if they don’t understand that Bridges is being an idiot about this. The man should set an example and work from home.
        Shit, I can’t even drive from Upper Hutt to Wingate to go to Moore Wilsons to pick up some essential ingredients for dinner. That fool gets to drive 1000kms because his internet at home isn’t good enough. I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with his internet at home. It’s more that there’s no reporters to bleat at there.
        
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        April 6, 2020 10:19pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        And please don’t mistake my use of profanity as an anger management issue.
        I’m reminded of the parable of the great horse whisperer, who could get any horse to do what he wanted just by whispering in their ear.
        A rather flash station owner hired the man on the strength of his reputation. The man turns up to perform his duty and is directed to the corral where the uncooperative horse is temporarily resided. The horse whisperer proceeds to walk into the corral with a large stick, and whacks the horse about the head with it. He then talks in the ear of the horse, who starts doing anything the man asks.
        The station owner afterwards says to the horse whisperer “I thought you only had to whisper in the horses ear for them to do what you said?”
        “Sure,” says the whisperer. “But first I need to get their attention.”
        
        1 3
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        April 6, 2020 10:35pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Oh gosh, I almost forgot to respond to your comments on my lack of wokeness regarding sexist language. My bad. I’d completely forgotten my audience for a second.
        I’ll try and use less gender-specific pronouns in future. But I will admit, that, as a somewhat privileged middle-aged white male, I do have trouble with them. Here’s a list of the currently identified genders. I wonder if you’d be so kind as to check it out and advise me on the correct pronouns for each gender so we can all get it right in future?
        http://thepbhscloset.weebly.com/a-list-of-genders–sexualities-and-their-definitions.html
        
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        April 6, 2020 10:49pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    I can’t independently corroborate it, but I’m also read elsewhere that Bridges has claimed that he intends to continue doing this.
    If that is the case, he needs to be dissuaded from this opinion, and either arrested or fired, or both.
    Imagine if David Clark had said that he was going to continue driving his car to the park to ride his bicycle?
    
    5 20
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    April 6, 2020 7:27pm
    - Nookin
      
      I imagine that if Clark said he was going to continue driving to a park for a bike ride, Bridges would continue to criticise him for not being in Wellington doing his job.
      
      8 1
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      April 6, 2020 8:04pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Gosh, imagine if David Clark said he was going to do his job instead of having fun in the woods.
      
      You’re so funny Simon.
      
      15 1
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      April 6, 2020 8:09pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        I try, mate, I try.
        At least I’m providing something for debate. It’s been fucking boring listening to the drivel on here lately. Whine, whine, whine it’s been for days.
        
        1 5
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        April 6, 2020 10:14pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      🙂 lol 🙂 so funny
      
      11 1
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      April 6, 2020 8:43pm
- krazykiwi
  
  You’re right! I call on Ardern to sack him immediately. Um, er, ok .. I see the problem.
  
  11 1
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  April 6, 2020 7:48pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    You kind of get it. Bridges has made David Clark’s infringement look minuscule in comparison. But I’m not even asking for him to be sacked. I’m asking him to pull his damned head in, work from home, or stay in Wellington. Don’t be putting yourself in danger driving back and forth around the country and potentially infecting two groups just because you want to big note in Wellington.
    Jesus, it’s not rocket science.
    
    3 14
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    April 6, 2020 8:38pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      🙂 Funniest thing I have seen on here forever 🙂
      
      11 1
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      April 6, 2020 8:44pm
    - Martin Williams
      
      Yep. Someone needs to have a word with him to move his family to Wellington for a few weeks to comply with the lockdown.
      
      It’s not hard.
      
      Can I suggest that someone be Trevor Mallard?
      
      2 12
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      April 6, 2020 8:57pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        I guess Mallard could name him. But as parliament ain’t sitting right now, it would be meaningless.
        Perhaps the Police could let him have some quiet time for a couple of hours, to let him understand that even the leader of the opposition needs to obey legal guidelines.
        
        1 6
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        April 6, 2020 10:13pm
    - Dougal10
      
      We all starting to notice who isn’t a rocket scientist but possibly a space cadet in this thread.
      
      3 1
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      April 6, 2020 10:11pm
- Ace
  
  The difference is you fool, Bridges is trying to drive to work in his role as opposition leader and Clark is driving away from work in his role as minister of health in these times.
  
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  April 6, 2020 9:56pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    No, fool, that is not a difference. Bridges does not need to drive to work. He can do his work from home. You guys really are not getting this.
    
    1 7
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    April 6, 2020 10:10pm
    - Dougal10
      
      I see no issue I can drive a 600km round trip for a $60 oil filter.
      
      1 1
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      April 6, 2020 10:14pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You are wasting your time, Simon. Kiwibloggers believe what they want to believe. Such beliefs are impervious to facts. No one here will actually argue why Bridges cannot perform his role via Zoom, like the rest of the committee. Instead, you will be attacked via ‘whataboutisms’ or criticised for intemperate language.
      Kiwiblog is not a debating forum.
      
      1 3
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      April 7, 2020 7:17am
Poppa

RIP Jock Edwards

One of my favourite players back in the day
11 1
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April 6, 2020 6:08pm
- alex Masterley
  
  many years ago I watched Jock Edwards take 22 runs off a Graeme Powell over at Carrisbrooke. Entertaining stuff in those days. He never took his foot off the gas.
  RIP Jock
  
  2 0
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  April 7, 2020 7:35am
surfing

“Humiliated Nicola Sturgeon admits resignation of Scotland’s chief medical officer for flouting her own lockdown rules WILL damage the fight against coronavirus”

At least politicians in the UK have standards!
David Clark defends himself breaking the rules, let alone showing humiliation!
4 0
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April 6, 2020 10:21pm
Michael NZ

Is this true, China getting a 2nd Wave..

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15845/china-fake-news-coronavirus
2 0
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April 6, 2020 11:11pm

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Peter Williams: Te Pati Maori End Game
Breaking Views
"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
Do the KCs believe in democracy
Utopia
More young offenders will get boot camp, bus drivers will get some protection – and there’s relief for southern farmers
Point of Order
Your Cheatin’ Ballot III: Pennsylvania Right Now
No Minister
Sowell says
Hompaddock
Open mike 22/11/2024
The Standard
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

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