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April 5, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 April 2020

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General Debate

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Maggie Pie

“Judas!! You logged in yet mate?”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUmHPdlXQAASTBj?format=jpg&name=small

😀
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April 5, 2020 8:00am
- curry4me
  
  Maggie Pie: Mmmm. Stealing that for my FB page. Very funny.
  
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  April 5, 2020 4:20pm
Humble Capitalist

I wouldnt mind 10 bob for every time we are compared to Idalee in the next 6 months
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April 5, 2020 8:01am
- herb1
  
  Yes we are exhorted by all and sundry to pronounce Te Reo perfectly . Looking forward to those same people exhorting us all , and particularly the PM, to pronounce English properly
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:07am
  - Prince
    
    I’m sure when she is overseas her diction magically improves.
    But any Labour PM can’t afford to talk like a posh private-school gel.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:27am
    - tf78
      
      I remember hearing that kids in England, after watching Pepper Pig or what ever it’s called developed a very posh English accent.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:02am
      - An observer
        
        Not just in England, American parents were complaining that there children were starting to speak with English accents as well. Would have been an improvement if you ask me. Though I do find the different American accents fascinating.
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:29am
      - Alex13
        
        To the Observer: “there children” in a post about the English language?!
        
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        April 5, 2020 1:51pm
  - JamesP
    
    Given the modern penchant for using the native place name it should be pronounced Italia.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:42am
    - Jack5
      
      To be consistent, the PC mobs at State TV and State radio need also to be giving us native-language pronunciations of Moscow, Warsaw, Paris, Rome, Beijing …
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:29am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Grazie.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:58am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “Yes we are exhorted by all and sundry to pronounce Te Reo perfectly.”
    
    If you speak Te Reo, then pronounce the words correctly.
    If you speak English, then pronounce the words correctly.
    
    “Hauraki” in English is pronouned “How racki” as far as I can tell; in Te Reo, I would assume “Hoe lacki” (I am only guessing, since I don’t speak Te Reo).
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:44am
    - greybeard
      
      Certainly not “Hoe lacki”.
      The alphabet used for the written maori language has no B,C,D,F,J,L,Q,S,V,X,Y or Z.
      And no soft sounds using C,S,L
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:52am
      - John Warren
        
        Forgive Odakyu-sen – ’twas merely his Japanese accent.
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:02am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        I appreciate your points, but I was writing for English speakers, not Te Reo ones.
        
        It’s OK to speak English.
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:03am
      - Unity
        
        So why do they pronounce ‘wh’ as an ‘f’? There is no ‘f’ in the written Maori language. As the Maori language was written down by a white man surely if it was pronounced as an ‘f’ it would have been written as an ‘f’!!! ‘au’ has always been pronounced as ‘ow’ for as long as I’ve been able to speak which is a long time. I will continue to pronounce these words as I have always done. They had such few possessions to have a word for so the language hasn’t evolved – it has been rewritten – reinvented.
        
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        April 5, 2020 12:24pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Who made that crap up? Maori had no written language. This is nothing but a scam and a Look-at-Me, I’m different culture.
        
        Let’s face it, an invented Maori language (written or otherwise) isn’t going to help us trade our way out of the predicament we’re facing.
        
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        April 5, 2020 1:24pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Auction, bauxite, caution, daughter, exhausting – I can keep this up a long time – fraught, gaunt, haunted – au is most definitely not always pronounced ow.
        
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        April 5, 2020 3:58pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Unity, the best one is listening to a Maori born and raised in Wanganui and listen how they pronounce “Wanganui”. they do not use the “wh” = “f” sound.
        
        Which all goes to prove what a farce this Te Reo thing is. Maori are not a homegenous group of people and when the Europeans arrived they did not have a homogenous language.
        
        The phonetic Maori alphabet was as Greyberard wrote above.S so this recent “cat-strangling” of Maori words into a common language called “Te Reo”, is what it is, “male bovine excrement”!
        
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        April 5, 2020 4:07pm
      - chiz
        
        Unity:So why do they pronounce ‘wh’ as an ‘f’? There is no ‘f’ in the written Maori language. As the Maori language was written down by a white man surely if it was pronounced as an ‘f’ it would have been written as an ‘f’!!!
        
        Actually no. Apart from one or two regional variants, the ‘wh’ sound is one that doesn’t exist in English. F and w are simply the two closest approximations to it in English.
        
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        April 5, 2020 5:41pm
    - Jack5
      
      Odakyu-sen has thrown us a topic for cabin fever boredom, and a bone for Milky to chew on …
      
      The obsequious, PC drive of State radio and TV to use Maori pronunciation in English is creating NZ Pidgin, mid-way between English and Maori.
      
      Does this help preserve Te Reo? Or is it supplanting it with our own pidgin? Maori TV and the 20 taxpayer-supported tribal radio stations should be broadcasting mainly in Te Reo, and secondarily in English.
      
      Why don’t State TV and State radio, if they feel the need, broadcast in Maori language as well as in English? Similarly, Stuff could run sections, or even “columns” in Maori language, instead of fostering macron-ated NZ Pidgin.
      
      We are supposed to be a dual-language country, not a mob of Pidgin/Creole speakers.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:20am
      - freethinker
        
        I like the idea of stuff and the horrid publishing articles in te rubbish to identify how many if anybody actually reads them, plenty of room now that sport coverage is zero save historic items.
        
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        April 5, 2020 11:16am
      - Unity
        
        I find it irritating when mainstream TV continue to speak Maori. Surely we have Maori TV channels for this and we can watch our TV without having to put up with a language most of us are not interested in learning. It is meaningless to many and will remain so. Also, I do not like being greeted/addressed in Maori. I’m an English speaker and proud of our language. So please let some of our channels be Maori-free.
        
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        April 5, 2020 12:29pm
    - hilaryt
      
      Not bad, but more ‘hoe rucki’ with the ‘r’ being very softly rolled off the top hard palate…No?
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:30am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Suggest you try “Kodi die back”.
        
        My wife asked me what a “Kodi” was when she frst heard it on RNZ.
        
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        April 5, 2020 4:09pm
  - Unity
    
    It’s totally irritating when she persists on pronouncing her t’s as d’s!! Distracts me from what she is trying to say.
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:19pm
- septic skeptic
  
  She reminds me of Pontius Pilate and Biggus Dickus from Life of Bwian.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:32am
  - Jack5
    
    And here you can re-enjoy it on Youtube:
    
    https://youtu.be/kx_G2a2hL6U
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:42am
  - hullkiwi
    
    You should listen to Jonathan R”w”oss. He is a classic class of a talentless English broadcaster who cannot speak properly. He has built a career on not being able to pronounce the letter “r”, instead he inserts a “w”.
    
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    April 5, 2020 4:12pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Italia. Capisci?
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:57am
artemisia

New Zealand is not Sweden but over there they are taking a different approach.

There is, still, no lockdown there. Shopping centres remain open, as are most schools and firms. Many work from home, many don’t – all are at liberty to choose.

The link is to an opinion piece but includes numbers from the daily updates, including ‘died with’ as well as ‘died from’.

If Sweden emerges well from all this, the rest of the world’s experts and politicians will need to take a good hard look at themselves to determine if the cure was in fact worse than the disease.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120805778/coronavirus-to-swedes-its-the-rest-of-the-world-engaging-in-a-reckless-experiment
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April 5, 2020 8:01am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, 6000+ cases and more than 300 deaths (RNZ this morning, Jim speaking to a Kiwi in Sweden before 8.00am).
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:46am
  - theoldbloke
    
    dont forget to compare them with their neighbours Norway, Denmark who have been in lockdown
    
    Perspective is a wonderful thing!!!
    
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    April 5, 2020 1:30pm
- infused
  
  look at their infected snd dead per capita. its about to explode
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:53am
  - Jack5
    
    Judgment will be on which was the worse – the pandemic or the economic wreckage.
    
    If Sweden emerges with an economy little damaged, and a human toll no worse per capita than that of the 1918 Spanish-flu pandemic, Swedes will likely be judged the smart ones.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:16am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Cold comfort to those burying the unnecessarily deceased.
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:26am
      - burt
        
        But they will be able to afford and attend the funerals. Our death count could end up just the same but we’ll grieve them in isolation and poverdy.
        
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        April 5, 2020 9:55am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Ah, well. At least we can celebrate Agnetha’s 70th birthday today.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:25am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQn1gJdVKi4
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:29am
      - Jack5
        
        Thank you Milky for that video link. ?
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:33am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The pedant in me always wants to correct this line:
        ‘My my, at Waterloo Napoleon did surrender’
        
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        April 5, 2020 11:09am
  - artemisia
    
    Maybe you are right, but regardless it is looking like a way to compare and contrast early stages with other similar economies.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:26am
  - PhilBest
    
    On the contrary, it may peak and fall. They’ll hit herd immunity early. We should all be grateful to Sweden for doing this. As one of their economists says in that article, it’s not Sweden doing the risky social experiment, it’s everybody else.
    
    Lockdown nations will have forestalled herd immunity and the virus will break out again. A more intelligent targeted quarantining is the way to go. Let herd immunity develop among the young and healthy. Everyone who’s already recovered is as good as someone who’s staying at home, but the one staying at home isn’t adding to economic activity.
    
    My money is on Sweden.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:49am
    - tf78
      
      That’s what happened to San Francisco during the Spanish Flu, they thought they’d escaped it and it swept back through killing thousands. No lessons learned from History once again.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:07am
- emmess
  
  Also Brazil is taking a similar approach to Sweden.
  But because they have a ‘faaaaar right’ president, the media worldwide is piling in.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12320735
  
  I am not sure if the Brazil and Sweden approaches are the right way to go, time will tell. But it clear that Sweden is taking a much bigger risk, given their climate.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:54am
Ian Hawthorn

The best way to see the progress of covid-19 that I have found is the website

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/

It provides an interactive set of graphs which you can use to see how the fight against the virus is going in different places around the world. The site is made by physicists, who have some useful tricks for displaying data relating to exponential growth. These are graphs of growth rate against total infections which enable you to clearly see whether the growth is continuing on an exponential path and what the growth rate is. Using logarithmic scales lets you compare large and small countries on the same graph.

There is a youtube video explaining why this type of graph is particularly good at depicting what is going on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XLXg4fYsc

Some caveats – official data is used which in some cases is unreliable. However given the nature of exponential growth these issues don’t degrade the usefulness of the graph. Also the graph uses weekly totals, so there is a delay. The effectiveness of our level 4 measures is therefore not yet apparent.

It is fun to select and compare different countries and see what is going on. The US graph takes off like a bottle rocket. Go press buttons and enjoy.
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April 5, 2020 8:02am
- rightoverlabour
  
  I know people are saying have a look at Sweden. Pop Sweden in and see its trend… Put a few others in for comparison like the USA Spain Italy, NZ and the UK. I think Sweden will be interesting as time progresses. Too early to say
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:55am
  - PhilBest
    
    I’m expecting they’ll look good when this is over. Their health head sharang is the best of his kind in the world. Sweden is lucky to have him.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:51am
    - Nickc2
      
      Does he do Mountain Biking?
      
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      April 5, 2020 1:41pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Best to view in Linear mode. Gives a more accurate picture.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:28pm
Poppa

I think its Sunday today but they all seem the same somehow
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April 5, 2020 8:02am
- Inandout
  
  No Poppa, our princess has allowed Sunday papers to publish. She will no doubt be front page news for ‘guiding’ us through this WuFlu.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:22am
Lee C

Isn’t Sweden Great!
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April 5, 2020 8:02am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, and they are starting to find the approach is not working.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:48am
  - PhilBest
    
    Too soon to say, mate. Their ICU capacity is still nowhere near being overwhelmed. The moment their peak comes due to herd immunity is the moment the rest of the world looks like fools.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:53am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Phil, not according to what was on the radio this morning.
      
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      April 5, 2020 4:13pm
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Really depends on what they’re trying to do. I still don’t know what we’re trying to do, but if flattening the curve was the goal earlier on, I would have though we’d be building capacity for more beds and ventilators while we are shut down.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:19am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      That’s been happening since before the shutdown. Hospitals are at 50% with CCU’s increased. Yesterday was speaking about standing some of those beds and services down ready to revert back, how, and no doubt when it might happen.
      
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      April 5, 2020 11:00am
  - Inandout
    
    Yes hull, and ours is working like clockwork.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:24am
  - Nermal
    
    Just their open borders policy. Too late
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:47pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Greta is definitely a Swede.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:05am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    A turnip more the like imo
    
    A swede is tasty in a Cornish Pasty where as a turnip is good for . . .cattle food
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:07am
    - Jack5
      
      The interesting variety of names for the humble swede, regional dish of Southlanders. Apparently it is a cross between a turnip and a cabbage. Haven’t heard of Southlanders eating the leaves, though
      
      Wonder why Southland’s Scots settlers didn’t keep one of the Scots names: neep, tumshie, or baigie.
      
      Swede soup was a staple of German people during the Royal Navy’s blockade in World War 1, and a boring diet in P.O.W. camps in World War 2.
      
      In our lockdown boredom, swedes provide a smidgen of mental fodder.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutabaga
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:33am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Apparently it is a cross between a turnip and a cabbage.
        
        Oh dear,
        we’ve been eating transgenic amphidiploids!!!!!
        
        (for generations…with no harm)
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:22am
      - marcw
        
        According to the Greens, you should at least have grown another ear, or head or something by now!
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:31am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Neeps and tatties is fine as food. I’ve eaten it in restaurants
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:41am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        One of the benefits of being a working class kid is that I dined on neeps & tatties frequently and still do when I can get my hands on sweet young swedes…
        I roast the bigger beasts or add them to soups.
        
        And the sweetest swedes are fine eaten raw or grated into a salad.
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:30am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Yes!
      Paulus
      Mashed Potato and Swede known as Heaven and Earth in my school days.
      
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      April 5, 2020 5:55pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Greta has had more programming or bullshit affirmations pumped into her synapses than the PC bullshit they pumped into RoboCop at the start of RoboCop2.
    
    Her body may be Swedish, but her mind is more akin to Borg, Dalek or Cyberman.
    
    She may be a fruitcake now, but will be come a vegetable as her brain becomes more and more moulied with all the half truths and untruths.
    
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    April 5, 2020 1:04pm
peterwn

Google News has this Herald headline:
“Convid 19 Coronavirus: Auckland couple in 70’s wait month for online Countdown delivery”
But it is no longer on the Herald web site. I wonder why? I wonder what the gist of the article was?
Anyway it is news to me you can book Countdown deliveries a month ahead, the norm is a week ahead.
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April 5, 2020 8:04am
- hullkiwi
  
  Peter, the problem is getting an online slot. My wife got a Pn’S one for next Wednesday, at 1.00am last Wednesday with only 1 available time slot.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:51am
- lifesgood
  
  Yes, it’s absolutely impossible to get a slot, even if you wnt to pick up. Why don’t they employ more staff, there are plenty who would jump at the job. An absolute farce.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:10am
  - PhilBest
    
    It’s probably the number of lockers that is the limitation. They weren’t to know they’d need 100 times as many lockers all of a sudden.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:54am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Lucky they already had them in place.
      
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      April 5, 2020 11:03am
    - peterwn
      
      And delivery vans. I wonder whether the Government could ask the Defence Force to assist supermarkets both with deliveries and with pick-ups (eg pick-up tents in car parks). This would take some pressure off things and cut queues down.
      Supermarkets have been able to hire laid-off Flight Centre staff who would have the general skills and aptitude for supermarket work. This would have helped.
      
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      April 5, 2020 12:34pm
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      My local supermarket ends click n collect at 5pm.
      Maybe they don’t have the staff yet, but the service could be extended until say 9pm while more lockers are installed.
      
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      April 6, 2020 1:11am
- kowtow
  
  Purely out of academic interest, it would be nice to know how much influence advertising revenue has when it comes to the so called fourth estate holding power to account……..
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:38am
- emmess
  
  Yeah, some are going online only
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503343&objectid=12321948
  
  It’s madness, they will never be able to process the same volumes of sales.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:57am
  - peterwn
    
    They would have figured they can pick orders more efficiently in a ‘closed’ supermarket and can achieve a significantly greater turnover by having no personal shoppers and letting presentation standards slip. Also they would less likely to have shelves ‘cleared’ by uncontrolled panic buying. Also again the staff working in the ‘closed’ shop would be less likely to catch the virus.
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:11pm
  - Akarak
    
    No way do I want a Countdown employee to select my meat or veg. Besides if you do try to shop on-line it’s impossible to get a delivery date even if you are on the priority assist programme.
    If Jucinduh allowed all of the smaller butchers, bakers etc to open (if they choose) then perhaps we may see a bit of sanity return.
    
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    April 5, 2020 5:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Fucking cat just asked me if I want the radio left on while he goes out.
Prick
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April 5, 2020 8:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Pets are adoring the lockdown.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:05am
  - tui47
    
    Actually not all. My two females cats are loving the attention. However the two males are pissed off after being constantly grabbed by my 21 year daughter every time they come in for their biscuits.
    
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    April 5, 2020 8:54am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, our cats have trained all the family properly…
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:00am
  - kowtow
    
    And dog shit is adorning our footpaths.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:33am
    - tf78
      
      kowtow – that is because poop bags are not considered ‘essential’ would you believe. Blame Cindy and her mates for that one.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:25am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Nonsense. The problem I see locally atm is people veering off the usual tracks to give 2m+ distance from others -there you tend to find more dog shit, and, always amazing, bagged dog shit morons have chucked away.
        
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        April 5, 2020 10:34am
- cmm
  
  Wait until it asks you to tune in to The PriNZess Show (or maybe today no show) at 1pm.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:32am
  - Monique Watson
    
    Yeah nah, She’s a noshow until Monday.
    
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    April 5, 2020 8:34am
    - globetrotter
      
      I heard she is going to be Sunday to Thursday now. However, that’ll very much depend on which cabinet minister stuffs up this week and on what day. That day, or the next, will be dropped from the PM’s schedule so she can pop off and consult with Dr Nigel.
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:28am
  - tui47
    
    She only turns up to pull sad face if there is a death or worsening situation she can milk for PR opportunities.
    
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    April 5, 2020 8:56am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    They honestly need to change the theme music to the PriNZess show to ‘like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of ours lives’.
    
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    April 5, 2020 8:56am
    - david
      
      ‘Jacinda Faces Life’
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:08am
      - globetrotter
        
        “Jacinda’s Covid-19 Joy”
        
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        April 5, 2020 9:30am
      - Gravelroad
        
        David – That was my late Mother’s favourite radio show – along with Paul Temple and the………Affair at night.
        
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        April 5, 2020 11:09am
    - PhilBest
      
      “Kung Flu Fighting” Mark Steyn or Stephen Crowder parody version.
      
      15 1
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      April 5, 2020 9:56am
      - tf78
        
        Or the Police “Every breath you take, every move you make, I’ll be watching you”.
        
        16 1
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        April 5, 2020 10:34am
- Explod
  
  For revenge, there is a recent study ( don’t have the link) that demonstrates that cats may transmit the virus whilst dogs don’t. See how cocky he is now!
  
  16 2
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  April 5, 2020 8:54am
- Hollyfield
  
  Tell the cat there have been reports overseas of cats getting the virus and command him to follow lockdown.
  
  And then watch his supercilious expression and the twitch of his tail as he ignores you and goes out anyway.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:29am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    I hear that the suicide rate amoungst cats has skyrocketed since the start of the lockdown.
    
    14 0
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    April 5, 2020 9:46am
  - Nickc2
    
    Threaten him with a one-way ticket to a Chinese Wet Market.
    
    7 1
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    April 5, 2020 1:56pm
  - Ian Hawthorn
    
    It should be OK even if he goes out. Cats are brilliant at social distancing. The closest they are usually willing to get to a cat “outside their bubble” is the stare down at 5 metres. Unless of course someone thinks someone else is trespassing in which case fur may fly.
    
    7 0
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    April 5, 2020 4:33pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Mine forgot to turn his clock back last night and had the massive munchies at 5.30am … too early for this servant ?
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:14pm
mikenmildagain

Here’s a suggestion: make this the general debate.
Every day, we have at least on separate thread for Covid-19. Maybe just make all your comments on there about:
the lockdown being to harsh
the lockdown being too lenient
the impact on the economy outweighing the risk of disease
your epidemiological expertise
why the government’s experts have it all wrong
what other countries are doing better
etc, etc.
And then just leave GD for the more interesting stuff.
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April 5, 2020 8:05am
- cmm
  
  Well done, you agreed with me.
  
  I intended to give you an uptick, but you can’t fight muscle memory.
  
  44 1
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  April 5, 2020 8:34am
  - PhilBest
    
    And me too….
    
    6 2
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    April 5, 2020 9:56am
- Monique Watson
  
  And how about you just fuck orf.
  
  35 15
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  April 5, 2020 8:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Do you kiss you children with that potty mouth?
    
    11 38
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    April 5, 2020 9:02am
- Simon
  
  “And then just leave GD for the more interesting stuff.”
  
  Well in your case you would need your own GD non-interesting stuff thread.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  GD for the more interesting stuff? Like trolling?
  But yes it is a good idea Mike – and has been suggested before
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:06am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You mention trolling as if it were a bad thing.
    
    7 18
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    April 5, 2020 9:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Just annoying. It is the result of not having an answer
      
      8 5
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      April 5, 2020 10:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        So if I always have an answer, I can’t be a troll?
        
        3 15
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        April 5, 2020 10:32am
- Morphyoss
  
  I would be interested to see what epidemiological or economic expertise are behind some of the suggestions posted not just here but on other blogs, Twitter and Facebook.
  
  Everyone seems to be an expert atm.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:37am
  - PhilBest
    
    What everyone needs to know is that there is plenty of disagreement among the experts right now and it is disturbing that apart from in Sweden, all the ones in positions of influence politically are alarmists.
    
    Mike Hosking was absolutely right a couple of days ago, “are there experts who disagree with the models? Yes, there are”.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:58am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No, not really much disagreement at all.
      
      4 26
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      April 5, 2020 10:07am
      - PhilBest
        
        The Party Line from Mikenmild. Don’t bother to do your own research, or expend a bit of effort on vigilance especially now you have all the time in the world to do it.
        
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        April 5, 2020 11:15am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The Imperial Model, widely ‘credited’ with launching all these draconian shutdowns was written by one man 13 years ago. The code.. in his own words “thousands of lines of undocumented C” remains unpublished, and not peer reviewed.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:20am
Happychappy

Our panic makes us more inclined to conform : here’s why we need to push back.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120809918/our-panic-makes-us-more-inclined-to-conform-heres-why-we-need-to-push-back
I am no fan of Andrea Vance but she has some very valid points here and people should be making sure they are for all NZer’s not just the Government.
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April 5, 2020 8:09am
- mark15
  
  Sorry,I got as far as ‘judgy’.
  
  6 1
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  April 5, 2020 9:19am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    I am no fan of Andrea Vance, but on this occasion I do recommend that you persevere. Some important and valid points are made further on.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:01am
- PhilBest
  
  I too was no fan of Andrea Vance but colour me surprised at what she is saying there.
  
  “…The idea that there is ‘no plan B’ other than keeping the country in parts of lock down for as long as possible, is terrifying.
  
  It’s completely hijacking an economic system without proper scrutiny and consideration and the consequences will affect the most vulnerable in our society for generations.
  
  You might not like the economy we’ve got, but it underpins our society and our entire lives.
  
  I see people on social media comforting themselves with fantasies about the kinder utopia we can rebuild from this crisis. It’s a lovely idea, but you can’t just burn the economy to the ground in a matter of weeks without an incomprehensible amount of pain and suffering.
  
  There has been a concerning amount of vitriol directed at those who have questioned both the restrictions, the rationale and how they are being enforced…”
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:02am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    As if you were really concerned about vitriol…
    
    2 34
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    April 5, 2020 10:08am
  - tui47
    
    The people who are dreaming of the utopia belong to Jacinda’s fan base and are mostly middle aged females of ample proportions with messy gray hairdos who take a break from their knitting to exclaim how wonderful and caring Jacinda is. Most of their time on social media is spent sharing lovey, dovey poems about kindness is more important than money.
    
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    April 5, 2020 1:57pm
- Inandout
  
  Happy, we have been described as ‘The Passionless People’ which is why we easily conform.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:28am
- krazykiwi
  
  From the article:
  
  It’s not the job of journalists or commentators to support or applaud politicians, or to be stenographers for official messages.
  
  My my … what an epiphany.
  
  Andrea, that’s precisely what you and your media peers have been doing since engineering Jacinda’s rise to the throne. Until just recently one would have seen more dissension from Che Guevara’s PR team.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:33am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Not a fan of Vance but agree 100% with her. Morons who meekly accept anything and everything that a Gumint says deserve everything they get as a result.
  
  For me I say show me the evidence. If you cant then I ignore you.
  
  9 2
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  April 5, 2020 10:37am
- Ruawai
  
  It is the MSM who need to take heed of her advice and start to question things said by those in charge.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:44am
oldpark

Been reading Boris Johnsons’ Pregnant girlfriend is in “Breaking News” as it has said she has the symptoms of the deadly Virus lurgy . Would be even better and a wake up call to Parents, if it was also reported that a wee Five Year Old Child in UK has just died from the deadly disease.Seems no age group is safe.
It is also being reported that one of the top spots to get infected with the Virus,believe it or not is “The Supermarket”.Go Figure.
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April 5, 2020 8:11am
- Jack5
  
  Have any Muslims caught Covid-19 at halal butchers?
  
  If not, get the vegans off our backs and allow butcher shops to open.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:46am
- Classic Liberal
  
  The five year old did have underlying disease/s. That was mentioned on RNZ this morning.
  
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  April 5, 2020 5:28pm
MT_Tinman

I note the New Zealand Police have announced new guidelines as to what is acceptable activity during the house arrest.

Note: The Police!

The New Zealand police; the people who are charged with upholding the law, not interpreting it – i.e. The Courts.

The New Zealand police, not the people who make the law – Parliament normally, the disgusting dictatorship currently.

The New Zealand Police!

Obviously Condom (or whatever his name is) is a chip off the old block.
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April 5, 2020 8:12am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Is David Clark aware of the new “guidelines”?
  I’m going out on the mountain bike today and might ride to an off road trail. If Clark can go off road so can I.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:59am
  - peterwn
    
    He did his mountain biking before the guidelines came out. He would have (or should have) been given the guidelines when or just before their issue under the ‘no surprises’ policy but that would have been after the biking episode.
    By the way the Winston Peters judgement is still awaited (goodness knows when it will see the light of day although the judges would now appear to have more time to catch up on judgment writing now that jury trials have been suspended) – this might (although unlikely) outlaw the ‘no surprises’ policy with regard to personal information.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:22am
- Overworked
  
  Not the police. They are obeying instruction from the Medical Officer of Health who, in an epidemic situation, has powers to override existing law.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:08am
  - PhilBest
    
    He’s obviously nowhere near as competent as his Swedish counterpart.
    
    7 2
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    April 5, 2020 10:02am
- peterwn
  
  Assuming the Police were informing the public of the guidelines that were in the Health Director-General’s latest ‘Order’, this is quite OK. The Director-General AFAIK has the legal authority to issue such ‘Orders’ under the emergency legislation – they form part of NZ’s law. If people object to such a process they can register their objection int the ballot box at the next election.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:15am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    If the Health Director-General or the MoH has reset the guidelines they, and only they, should release them.
    
    In a free society the police must never be allowed to make or interpret law – ever!
    
    8 1
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    April 5, 2020 11:37am
    - peterwn
      
      The MoH DID release them. The Police are fully justified in helping to disseminate them and reminding people that the guidelines exist. The Police are NOT making law by doing this.
      
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      April 5, 2020 12:39pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was just saying it’s all those people with Dyslexia he feels really sorry for. At 2am this morning their cocks went black.

😛
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April 5, 2020 8:13am
Tasman Terror

Spare a thought for the bogans. With the lockdown they have to make both breakfast and lunch for their progeny. Also they can’t buy their RTDs at the local pub. On the up there are more opportunities for domestic violence.
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April 5, 2020 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Aren’t you ordering your RTDs online like everyone else?
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:04am
  - peterwn
    
    The local supermarket does not seem to allow ‘click and collect’ beer and wine purchases and will not deliver beer or wine as checking age ID would put their staff at risk.
    
    13 1
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    April 5, 2020 9:26am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Many liquor stores still doing online orders.
      
      4 5
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      April 5, 2020 9:32am
      - peterwn
        
        How do they know underage people are not placing orders?
        
        3 0
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        April 5, 2020 12:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        They have a handy button on the website, you have to click it to indicate one is over 18. Seems foolproof…
        
        4 1
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        April 5, 2020 2:45pm
- Overworked
  
  Actually, in my experience most bogans can cook more competently than middle class under-40s.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:09am
  - PhilBest
    
    There has been endless outrage from Yuppies in San Francisco over restaurants not being deemed an “essential service”. Some of these people probably don’t even have any kind of food-heating device at home….
    
    10 1
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    April 5, 2020 10:04am
    - Inandout
      
      Phil, in many cases Mummy does the cooking and brings it down to their Twitter basement.
      
      9 1
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      April 5, 2020 10:30am
hullkiwi

Morning all,
Covid-19 diet, go to the supermarket, see the queue, & go home instead!

Silverdale Pack and Save, long queue.
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April 5, 2020 8:21am
- Inandout
  
  hull, there is an app ‘howlongistheline’ or some such which has info on supermarket lines all over NZ. I think mornings and early afternoon are bad times to visit.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:33am
- Deadly pony
  
  Yeah, have fun shopping normally!
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:10pm
Lee C

Stuck there like that. Who’d want to live there 24 – 7.

I mean,

The North Shore!!?
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April 5, 2020 8:24am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Population on the Shore, 229,000 bro’
  
  Wellington, 212,000
  
  Just a little perspective.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:35am
- MrTips
  
  Lol. That’s the Auckland spirit. Just like the 1994 NPC final btw Harbour and Auckland – fight that broke out in a game of rugby!
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:36am
- Bobba Fret
  
  North Shore is a great place (city) with so many great beaches, just unfortunately getting too crowded as too many want to live there.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t say that! We don’t want the rif raf coming here
    
    8 1
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    April 5, 2020 10:12am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Too late – already overrun with South Africans.
      
      2 12
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      April 5, 2020 12:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Close to getting reported Mike. Tread carefully sonny
        
        2 1
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        April 5, 2020 1:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        So long as they all stay on the North Shore, I have no problems with them.
        
        1 6
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        April 5, 2020 2:46pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Reported, I hope the mods and DPF are kind to you. Your racism is appalling
        
        4 2
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        April 5, 2020 3:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Don’t be a sook – South African is not a race, it’s just a type of human with no sense of humour.
        
        3 4
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        April 5, 2020 3:28pm
  - Inandout
    
    Bobba, I used to take the kids to the Bays when I lived in Glenfield, and Long Bay was a favourite site for the South Auckland Pacific crowd. But yes, the Bays are too overcrowded and polluted now.
    
    6 1
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    April 5, 2020 10:36am
    - hullkiwi
      
      The South Aucklanders are often seen enjoying a day out at Orewa too.
      
      InandOut, as someone who grew up in Mairangi Bay and attended Rangitoto, I find it depressing seeing the transformation of what was once fields into modern urbanisation. Hence when we came back to NZ, we settled in Rodney.
      
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      April 5, 2020 4:20pm
Odakyu-sen

So, when will New Zealanders be required by law to wear a mask when outside their homes?
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April 5, 2020 8:29am
- cmm
  
  Their homes?
  
  Didn’t you hear, all housing to be nationalised to make the housing sector more efficient.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:37am
- MT_Tinman
  
  I have yet to see a shop open and selling masks.
  
  All those I see open have signs outside advising they have none.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:53am
  - Mags
    
    I was able to get face masks from our local pharmacy, so some are around.
    
    9 0
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    April 5, 2020 9:33am
    - Gravelroad
      
      A couple of years ago, we went to one of those fundraising dinner auctions which also included bidding for mystery items.
      One of our group won a lot which turned out to be a big box of blue plastic gloves, face masks and protective overalls donated by a health and safety provider.
      We all laughed at the time and several questionable jokes were directed at the winner.
      Guess who’s wearing the gloves and mask at the supermarket now.
      
      11 0
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      April 5, 2020 11:18am
- Ruahine
  
  As soon as the Communist from Ethiopia and the Communist from China who are running the W.H.O. give Ardern an ex-communist (?) her orders.
  
  23 3
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  April 5, 2020 8:58am
  - peterwn
    
    I have been having arguments with the ‘other half’ whether Jacinda is a Communist. We have yet to reach a consensus. At least she has not likened me to Joe (‘red under every bed’) McCarthy.
    
    15 1
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    April 5, 2020 9:30am
    - emmess
      
      We are all McCarthyists now
      
      5 1
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      April 5, 2020 10:04am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Comrade count.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
      
      7 1
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      April 5, 2020 10:20am
      - Inandout
        
        Steve, that comrade thing was when she was young and silly; now she is middle aged and silly.
        
        19 1
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        April 5, 2020 10:38am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Yes, she is a naive, brainwashed communist. No doubt.
      
      14 1
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      April 5, 2020 11:20am
- Overworked
  
  When the Medical Officer of Health decides we need to. Unlikely, since NZ has a poor supply of the type of mask the public buy, and the evidence to date is that the protection afforded by such a mask is relatively minor.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:10am
- Scooter
  
  Hopefully they won’t get as anal as in Italy, not compulsory here yet but I can’t see the benefit of wearing a mask while gardening alone or driving, as I have seen recently.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:32am
Clyde

What are the criteria for this testing station set up in Otara? Seems like people can just drive up and get a test. Is this correct? How does the criteria for a test differ here from elsewhere? Should testing be race-based when studies show that the virus is non race-specific?
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April 5, 2020 8:29am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Not about race. More about socio-economic status. Link is clearly there that deprived areas tend to suffer more greatly under pandemics. Privileged people simply have more options to isolate and stay safer.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:31am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    ‘Privileged people?’
    Do you mean ‘successful people?’
    
    23 2
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    April 5, 2020 10:13am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Privilege is merely descent from successful people, see: House of Mountbatten-Windsor.
      
      1 19
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      April 5, 2020 10:30am
      - kowtow
        
        Worked out well enough for Nicholas II and his immediate family , not.
        
        13 0
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        April 5, 2020 10:55am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I didn’t say the privileged couldn’t lose their privileges. See: every revolution ever.
        
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        April 5, 2020 12:03pm
  - Clyde
    
    Simon, if this is not about race why did the Government in the first tranche of grants put aside $56m for Maori health? I’m baffled if a person of maori descent is perfectly entitled to those health services that the rest of us can access, why they can also access race-based delivery of those health services.
    
    Tamahere was arguing the other day that it was only rich and privileged people that could afford to travel overseas and so maori needed special assistance (I don’t follow that logic), but interestingly on RNZ this morning a NZ expert living in London was saying that there was NO evidence that the virus was particularly hard on race. It seems to be harder on men.
    
    No, this was race based and I think if the people of Otara who have a sniffle and can turn up and get tested ahead of those that have clear symptoms and have been refused a test, then there is something basically wrong. What I asked in my post, was whether the criteria for a test was the same – that hasn’t been answered.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:43am
    - peterwn
      
      There are many Maoris in Australia in all sorts of jobs (there are apparently more Maori prison officers in NSW prisons than Maori inmates).
      Therefore there must be many rich and privileged Maoris too.
      Indeed ‘Animal Farm’ could just as well apply to the Maori community.
      
      4 1
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      April 5, 2020 6:42pm
Durden

Since they don’t seem to be thinking, here are some questions for reporters to ask the PM and Bloomfield.

– When are government employees who are on lockdown going to take their salary cut ? So you can pay front line staff bonuses.
– When are politicians and government senior management going to start taking salary cuts.
– When are you going to provide Sweden style transparency on Covid-19 case details so people can make up their own minds on your performance
– When are you going to start performing country wide tests on statistically random sample to get a view of spread.
– When are you expecting more virus test kits (currently enough for 7-10 days) and how many.
– When are you expecting ANTIBODY test kits and how many, so people who are recovered can get tested and allowed back to work.
– Do you believe people who are asymptomatic can be carriers ?
– Are you still pursuing a high trust model ? What is the status of people in self isolation and quarantined, how often are you checking on them, how and how can we be satisfied that what you are doing is enough.

We are past “trust me”

Thank you.
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April 5, 2020 8:30am
- cmm
  
  Whew! Lotsa queschuns. Luv answers all!
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:35am
  - Gravelroad
    
    We must be kind and not expect politicians to take pay cuts.
    They are an essential service industry after all. ?
    
    19 1
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    April 5, 2020 9:03am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Clark should get a DCM for his services to the cycling fraternity.
      
      17 1
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      April 5, 2020 9:16am
      - cmm
        
        I worked out what the C stands for.
        
        Still decoding the D and M…
        
        4 1
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        April 5, 2020 10:42am
    - Inandout
      
      Well council meter and library staff are essential…aren’t they?
      
      5 1
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      April 5, 2020 10:41am
- Ipanema69
  
  On the state sector salary cuts. What about reducing public and local govt “chief executives” pay to be capped at a maximum of 80% of the prime ministerial salary. Furthermore require same the proportionate reduction in salary in these organizations for all staff earning more than $100K (noting that if this yielded a reduction to less than $100K then they receive $100K).
  
  I don’t believe that any of these individuals would leave their roles, there is no market in the private sector for their skills.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:21am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    What about reducing public and local govt “chief executives” pay to be capped at a maximum of 80% of the prime ministerial salary
    
    I agree but would prefer we cut the PTPM’s salary to 80% of those of us made unemployed by the PTPM’s actions before we did.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:42am
KH

Thanks to a link on Kiwiblog yesterday I have rediscovered Newsroom.
http://www.newsroom.co.nz
Decent journalism for a change (apart from Bernard Hickey of course)
And some great Covid charts and Stats. Far better than Stuff
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April 5, 2020 8:36am
- emmess
  
  Yeah, it looks quite good, I had never taken much notice of it.
  In normal times, I had cut out NZ MSM aprt from the odd link I’d click through but they are necessary in these dark days. Newsroom appears to just be straight news that the MSM ought to be providing, I think I will make it a daily go to site, at least for the foreseeable future.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:14am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Newsroom has an interesting model – mix of subscription service, donations and sponsorship. Some successful example of this overseas.
    
    4 8
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    April 5, 2020 10:29am
- Fletch
  
  Here’s another useful one –
  
  https://livenews.co.nz/
  
  7 1
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  April 5, 2020 10:49am
Greg Ettridge

Sorry for long rant but I think this is so important if you don’t want to live in a thrid world shithole controlled by china.

I thought I heard Jacinda said that New Zealand was amongst the highest in the world for testing.
Hand me the bullshit meter.
Tests per million population
New Zealand comes in at number 30 at 6,867 tests per mill infection rate currently 197
Australia 14 at 11,203 per mill infection rate 218
Anyone that thinks for a moment the figures the government releases everyday are a true reflection, book yourself straight into the nearest asylum, you are crazy.
Highest testing Faeroe islands 98,000 per mill easy to do as very small population infection rate 3,704.
Its not rocket science, more tests you do more cases you find.
So we have some woke Journalist this morning comparing NZ lock downs to Nigeria and Georgia, not one test. How do you compare with no testing, enlighten me.
Australian and New Zealand infection rates on paper look about the same, more deaths in Australia.
Reality is Australia is testing at nearly twice the rate, so it would appear NZ has many many cases lurking that haven’t been discovered.
The lock down in Australia is no way as bad as Australia, the tougher lock down doesn’t appear to be achieving anything but taking the economy to armegeddon.
Personal view, those that think they are at risk lock yourself away for as long as you desire.
The rest of society, have some reasonable rules like Sweden, Vietnam, Taiwan, and Singapore, start working and living, people are going to die, they already do everyday without this.
This lock down will be permanent if the present testing levels and regime continues, numbers will never fall to a level that is acceptable, not before a vaccine.
I am 69, I am borderline risk, said to a mate yesterday, I may as well get on with it, catch it, if I die so be it, if not I get on with my life, better to get it now, even my age would have a chance of a ventilator now, not so down the track.
Has anyone calculated how many years it will take at present infection rate to infect half the population.
Jacinda was talking 95% infection rate for herd immunity which also should go off to the bullshit meter.
There are two aspects here, health and economy, you cannot have one without the other.
Just have a look at the shitholes with piss weak health systems around the world, if you want to see how things work with no money.
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April 5, 2020 8:38am
- cmm
  
  Even shitholistans in Africa can beat us at testing.
  
  However what is really broken for assessing herd immunity is that we need antibody testing, not antigen testing.
  
  To my understanding, and anyone please correct me if I am wrong, antibody testing for Covid is not yet available.
  
  But all of that does not justify her continuous lying.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:53am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  There are 195 countries in the world. If NZ is at number 30, then they are clearly near the top.
  Given the USA engaged in international piracy in the last few days trying to score all the face masks, don’t be surprised if they make it harder for other countries to test by taking all the stuff required to test as well.
  Seriously, though, man, of course we could do better, but 30th in the world in still better than 164 other countries.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:33am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I wonder if the US shenanigans with the face masks will have any blow-back when they try to get ventilators form the EU.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:10am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      Didn’t affect China when it turned around ship loads full of medical equipment did it? Canada wouldn’t be in the situation as bad if they hadn’t sent China 16 tonnes of medical equipment earlier in the year to help them with the Wu Flu either.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:42am
    - Inandout
      
      m&m, the US will simply tell 3M to make ventilators, not have their CEO hide behind excuses like ‘our factories are in China’.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:44am
    - cmm
      
      And the EU should be doing the same: looking after its own first, not just rolling on its back to be pillaged by the Middle East.
      
      USA is cranking out its own ventilators. Not so sure it really needs the EU.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:46am
  - cmm
    
    International piracy? Oh bullshit.
    
    In times of strife it is the job of government to serve its own people first.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:44am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Simon you are living in a very protected world if you think all countries are testing.
    NZ has started to get serious about testing in last fortnight, just keep in mind up until a few days ago the requirements made getting a test almost like winning lotto.
    There is much puss and pain to come in next few weeks. Prepare for a long lonely winter.
    At 6,200 tests a day which they say can do, they have 4 days supply.
    The figures just don’t add up.
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:58pm
    - cmm
      
      Those 24,000 tests that are left must absolutely be kept for identifying crook health workers etc.
      
      They should not be handed out like lollies.
      
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      April 5, 2020 1:39pm
- kowtow
  
  Nigeria has lots and lots of money , but also has lots and lots of corruption.
  
  It’s really a failed state .
  
  No doubt ,even though they’ve been independant since 1960 and were being prepared for same since end of WWII , honkies fault. Better still if Trump can be implicated somehow.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:55am
lastmanstanding

Some random questions.

1. Will the Government allow Kiwis to travel to and return from countries that still have cases of Covid-19.

2.If so will they quarantine the travellers on their return in a secured facility for the 14 days at the travellers cost.

3. If not why not.

I ask these questions because my perception so far is that the Government was totally unprepared for the event and is making it up on the fly.

Some of us who are students of risk management know you must look ahead and plan to either eliminate or mitigate all possible risks before they arise.
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April 5, 2020 8:39am
- Ruahine
  
  Lastmanstanding.
  You missed one question out.
  When will the Government and the Police allow New Zealanders to travel within ‘our’ country.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:02am
- artemisia
  
  In the real world identifying and managing risk is, or should be, the #1 priority for management.
  
  Having a risk management plan safely tucked away in the bottom drawer – not so much. Especially if it is
  the standard template and never reviewed during or importantly after incidents.
  
  IMO the top risks need to be top of the management agenda each and every time.
  
  How often did the MoH management team review and update their epidemic and other risk plans. Enquiring minds … A good question for the Epidemic Response Committee.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:22am
- Inandout
  
  Wow lasty, I haven’t heard the term ‘on the fly’ since the early days of CD burning when I had to chuck many discs because the burning failed. A bit like this government as you say.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:47am
- rightoverlabour
  
  What happens if we have an earth quake now? Any ideas?
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:13am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The first responders will manage it pretty much the way they have done in the past.
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:02pm
Michael Rodent

A worthwhile read from “The Atlantic” on how the virus is likely to end :

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/
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April 5, 2020 8:40am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Sadly you could substitute “New Zealand” and much of it would ring true…..
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:04am
- Fletch
  
  The Democrats are using the crisis to reshape the country into the socialist image they want. They also admit that that is what they want to do.
  
  Calif. Gov. @GavinNewsom: Coronavirus an opportunity to create a new “progressive era”
  
  “We see this as an opportunity to reshape the way we do business and how we govern.” pic.twitter.com/LongRVqcMS
  
  — Tom Elliott (@tomselliott) April 2, 2020
  
  https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1245635579229822977
  
  Democrats are just damn evil. Who knows what the U.S will look like if it comes out of this, with the huge spending bills of trillions of dollars, much of it for things totally unrelated to the virus.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:59am
- emmess
  
  Not bad article but a few inaccuracies
  
  As Gen C grows up, foreign plagues replace communists and terrorists as the new generational threat.
  
  Never forget, it was the CCP that got us into this mess
  
  The election of November 2020 becomes a repudiation of “America first” politics
  
  No, it will be a repudiation of globalist institutions
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:11am
lastmanstanding

An addendum.

Of course the Government could eliminate the risk by refusing to allow any Kiwi to travel to a country that still has cases and return and or refuse travel inwards and outwards until a proven vaccine has been developed.
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April 5, 2020 8:43am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Government can’t stop citizens from travelling to specified countries overseas unless they stop them from leaving New Zealand at all. Only the governments of those countries can do that.
  
  Nor can the New Zealand government prevent New Zealand citizens from entering New Zealand.
  
  They should, however, be able to require everybody entering from overseas to go into quarantine pending testing. Once that’s in place there’s no need for the more drastic measures.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:13am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    I’m sure the Government can stop planes flying in and out.
    Our only arrivals now are Kiwis coming home as I understand it under strict conditions that have been made public for a week.
    Unfortunately, there have been some panicking wee flowers who are apparently NZers arguing that NZers should be prevented from returning – probably the same folks that wanted those with Covid 19 locked up. In the next breath, they claim NZ has become a police state.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:22am
Simon

Is there any other modern political party like NZ Labour been so bereft of talent? The cupboard is bare.

10 years of back stabbing and bitter leadership coups have taken their toll. Ardern has surrounded herself with incompetent yes men which is expected after 10 years of feral Labour infighting.

The leader of Labour is always under constant siege. The insanity of Home Detention, a knee jerk over reaction, is a direct result of Labour’s siege mentality. A complete absence of trust & co-operation.
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April 5, 2020 8:43am
- cmm
  
  This is a result of the AUntie Helen years.
  
  She was a complete micromanager who ruled with an iron fist. Anyone with gumption got their arse kicked.
  
  What’s left? A bunch of useless sycophants.
  
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  April 5, 2020 8:55am
  - coolas
    
    Wrong – cmm – but hey, don’t let the truth stand in the way of your prejudice.
    
    Example: Cullen had gumption and didn’t get his arse kicked by Clarke.
    
    They were a great PM and Finance Minister team as were Key and English.
    
    And before you diss the Clarke Government here’s reminding you what English said in January 2009 about GFC
    
    “I want to stress that New Zealand starts from a reasonable position in dealing with the uncertainty of our economic outlook … we have room to respond. This is the rainy day that Government has been saving up for.”
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:13am
- Ruahine
  
  Labour is doing really well. We still have not run out of other peoples money yet.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:04am
- brett68
  
  Labour isn’t running the country, it’s being run by the public service.
  
  Hardly any politicians have the skill sets required to be in charge of any of the ministries, they’re only there to use the rubber stamp.
  
  That goes for both National and Labour.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:14am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I agree..
    
    If The PM and the Min of Health departed the scene, would we notice?
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:05pm
JibberJabber

A Labour Finance Minister trying to prove Winston Churchill wrong…
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kuEHi_1585963575
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April 5, 2020 8:45am
Benedict Yu

Holy shit. This is an op ed in the Sunday Star Times by the Governor of the Reserve Bank. It is just awful. I don’t know what to say.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120732494/adrian-orr-economic-shockwaves-will-eventually-give-way-to-vibrant-refreshed-new-zealand-economy

“Support each other, think beyond just the next six months, and visualise the role you can and will play in the vibrant, refreshed, sustainable, inclusive New Zealand economy.

He para i te huarahi ki tua – To carve a path forward into the future”
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April 5, 2020 8:53am
- mikenmildagain
  
  He’s an idiot, who needs to concentrate on his own job (setting interest rates) instead of imagining he is running the entire country.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:07am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I agree MM, the man is a buffoon. Bet he gets to speak at Massey after the apocalypse with words like, ‘you can’t park there’ or ‘please take your tray up, you don’t know how much easier it makes my job’
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:23am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Yes, but the man has a great sense of humor. I put “He para i te huarahi ki tua” into Google translate. It means “there is dirt on the back road”.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:06am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think there is at least one typo: ‘para’ (dirt/dirty) should be ‘ara’ (path, pathway).
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:27am
      - Inandout
        
        m&m, enough of this pidgin English crap.
        
        7 2
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        April 5, 2020 10:49am
- Ruahine
  
  ” Working at the Reserve Bank for the people of New Zealand is a privilege”.
  Adrian Orr just letting us know that he is entitled to full pay whilst his friends carry on wrecking New Zealands economy.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:30am
- Old White Loser
  
  Easy for the Governor of the Reserve Bank to give everyone a rah rah talk when he is still being paid and has future employment.
  
  It worry’s me that the people making decision will still be paid no matter what the outcome. They have no skin in the game.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:34am
  - EssenX
    
    As Taleb calls them IYI: Intellectual Yet Idiots.
    
    People that have skin in the game will generally make far better decisions.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:57am
- BullyHayes
  
  he’s an absolute muppet
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:36am
- John Warren
  
  Garnishing his conclusion with a pompous phrase in Maori, a nod to the superior wisdom of the Noble Savage, indicates Mr Orr’s savoir faire, his position as great economic sage and saviour.
  
  But at no point in the piece does he tell us how this “vibrant, refreshed, sustainable, inclusive New Zealand economy” might actually arise from the ashes and wreckage of Covid 19.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:40am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s de rigeur to te reo.
    
    Probably mandatory in certain gubmint / public service circles.
    
    One’s use of it will certainly show others that you’re “on side”. I suspect the same of Plod who wear the domestic violence lapel pin . Some violence being less acceptable than others.
    
    These things , be they language utterances or certain badges are almost like wearing a party badge ,. And have no place in truly public service.
    
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    April 5, 2020 9:59am
  - septic skeptic
    
    There is a hidden gem in what you assume to be a pompous phrase. Pop that Maori into google translate.
    
    6 1
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    April 5, 2020 10:11am
    - John Warren
      
      I should have been clearer – maybe not so much the phrase, but the use of Maori faux proverbs in general, is pompous.
      
      Oh! See what you mean.
      
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      April 5, 2020 2:43pm
  - rockape
    
    He doesnt even tell us how deep the ashes are!
    
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    April 5, 2020 3:05pm
- adamsmith1922
  
  Orr should not be RBNZ Governor, read Michael Reddell at Croaking Cassandra for illustration of my comment
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:54am
Maggie Pie

We drove over to One Tree Hill to take the dog for a walk in the park and there was all these other people up there.

Disgraceful.
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April 5, 2020 8:57am
- rightoverlabour
  
  [Mod. – lighthearted comments don’t deserve this sort of response.]
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:18am
Wangas Feral

The WHO are still carrying water for the CCP regime. Now saying that everyone is “too focused” on the numbers of sick and dead in China. Why are we paying money to these scumbags?
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April 5, 2020 9:00am
bruceavon

Just reading the data and figures around covid 19 in the US. grim figures. One month ago they had 200 cases. Now the highest in the world, 300,000 plus. 3 times as many cases as the next country. and the numbers are growing exponentially. 30,000 new cases today. If the trends don’t change they will eventually have more cases than everyone else put together. They are a mess, and the UK isn’t much better.
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April 5, 2020 9:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  “Nobody knew health care could be so complicated.”
  – Donald J Trump, 2017
  
  7 27
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  April 5, 2020 9:09am
- Steve James
  
  Yeah, those Democrat politicians in New York as well as the House Speaker (Pelosi) were encouraging people to “get out and mingle” and “go to Chinatown and visit the bars” less than four weeks ago.
  Of course the media will brush that under the carpet.☹
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Shortage of N95 masks, due to the Obama admin not replacing the stockpile. It was not known until now
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:53am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Who could have known that three years after he left office, everything inadequate about the US response was still Obama’s fault?
    “I don’t take responsibility at all.” – Donald J Trump
    
    5 27
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    April 5, 2020 10:13am
    - burt
      
      8 long years of neglect, they had shit running down walls in their hospitals.
      
      (I know they didn’t but I’ll keep repeating it before I hide from the media and go mountain biking)
      
      17 1
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      April 5, 2020 11:23am
  - Fletch
    
    Yup. Even USA Today admits it is true.
    
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/
    
    Meanwhile, New York is suffering the most and Cuomo is trying to shift the blame to Trump because they don’t have enough ventilators. New York was aware years ago that they didn’t have enough but spent the money on solar panels instead and were more worried about abortion rights. It’s not the job of the federal government to supply hospital beds and ventilators, but the state governors. The mismanagement can be laid directly at the feet of governors.
    
    16 2
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    April 5, 2020 11:05am
- Stu2
  
  The US has not done well testing (4747/million) so it the cases are worse than that.
  Evidentally NY has been testing extensively so there will be patches ofn the US without much testing at all
  
  Having a country split into 50 fiefdoms doesn’t seem to work well, especially when the president is incompetent
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:01am
  - Steve James
    
    A little jealous are we Stu2?
    President Trump IS the President, he DID get duly elected and he IS a very successful man.
    Repeat after me “Haters are Losers”
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:38am
  - Inandout
    
    stu2, you can’t help it, Trump can’t be blamed for a Chinese virus.
    
    6 2
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    April 5, 2020 1:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ever tried serving 325+ million people? Thought not
    
    5 2
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    April 5, 2020 2:24pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      So he has that in common with Trump…
      
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      April 5, 2020 2:57pm
    - curry4me
      
      Steve otto (North Shore) Yes, how many Trump haters would last 24 hours in the job with half the level of hatred, and vitriol he has to put up with?
      
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      April 5, 2020 9:06pm
- PhilBest
  
  “US aggregate” data is about as good as “EU aggregate” data.
  
  New York is the USA’s Northern Italy. There are plenty of places more like Germany, in the rest of the USA. The epicentres in the USA are all Democrat-run, with local politicians insisting that COVID-19 was a xenophobic conspiracy theory up till about 4 weeks ago. They also tend to have stuffed housing markets and lots of crowded immigrants including illegals.
  
  There are valuable lessons to be learned by looking at this plague on a “by neighbourhood” basis rather than a “by nation” one. So far NZ has nothing like either Northern Italy or New York. Our clusters are random and based on overseas contacts only. We don’t have a community where spread is rampant. This is true for a lot of the USA too. There are States with no deaths as yet.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:17am
- emmess
  
  True
  But remember on March 16, we had a single digit number of cases.
  If all arrivals at the border had been quarantined a bit before then, we would have needed only minimal social and economic controls, i.e. social distancing and hygiene PSAs.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:25am
- krazykiwi
  
  In 2018-19 …
  
  35,520,883 American’s had Influenza-like symptoms.
  
  16,520,350 of these resulted in medical consultations.
  
  490,561 of these resulted in hospitalizations
  
  34,157 people died
  
  Are these grim statistics? I’d suggest yes, but a functioning economy doesn’t get closed down because of them.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:50am
tui47

The health system may well emerge from this crisis to go straight into another. They have delayed surgeries and appointments including those for cancer. Very few people are visiting their GPs. When this is all over the demand for GPs and the hospital will go through the roof. People don’t stop getting cancer because the health system is shut down. Personally, I am missing my annual mammogram. Although all being well I should be ok, some people will end up with delays in diagnosis that may well be fatal.
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April 5, 2020 9:03am
- Blackbob
  
  Add to that GP’s Practice nurses are being laid off and regular vaccination programs not being done, watch measles & other fun things make a comeback in the not too distant future. Our hospitals are half empty and some of the staff are sitting on their hands waiting for Armageddon. (My partner is a nurse) People are going to die because of Covid-19 but not necessarily from it.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:26am
  - EssenX
    
    Smart people can work out the consequences of actions.
    
    Really smart people can work out the consequences of consequences.
    
    The current Government is bereft of Ministers of either type.
    
    15 1
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    April 5, 2020 11:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Same goes for guys like me with low level prostate cancer. Active surveillance is on the back burner
  
  20 1
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  April 5, 2020 9:50am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    I am in same boat. Biopsy cancelled and no new date.
    
    16 0
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    April 5, 2020 10:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Downticker must think that cancer is not serious. You pathetic POS
    
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    April 6, 2020 8:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Seems quite a few folks are awaiting assessments/consultations/surgery.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120820546/coronavirus-urgent-surgeries-scans-cancelled-as-covid19-empties-hospitals
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:08am
- rockape
  
  I think in 12 to 18 months when this first version is over, we may look back and wonder if more died from cancelled surgeries than died from corona virus?
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:16am
- tf78
  
  Why don’t the leave the private hospitals open for accidents and surgeries and leave the public for virus cases.
  
  5 1
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  April 5, 2020 11:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Money, they don’t give a shit if you die from prostate cancer that goes straight to the spine
    
    2 1
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    April 5, 2020 4:59pm
kevn

@Tui…. My 3 month wait for an op was pushed out to 6 months now cancelled. Oh… ok .
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April 5, 2020 9:07am
HalfFull

Teachers: Does anybody know if teachers ARE looking after the frontline workers children?

I know its school holidays but from what I have seen at one of MSD job seek centers (also switched to help with health line)
is that only 25- 30% of their staff worked the last two weeks.
One main reason is they are home looking after their children.
The ones that ARE working are getting stressed to the max, you can imagine the types of calls.

I read this https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120822467/coronavirus-ministry-of-social-development-swamped-as-job-losses-mount

and weep for people trying to get an answer from MSD.
It says they are hiring more staff yet most in this place are not even working.
ie its a domino effect, bad logistics from the start. Is it the same throughout all MSD call centres?

Will the teachers actually help these guys out if the lockdown continues?
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April 5, 2020 9:10am
Manolo

Do Ardern and Labour deserve a second term? No! Out with the wreckers of the NZ economy.
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April 5, 2020 9:21am
- Prince
  
  Thinking about that this morning. They have played this brilliantly. Six weeks ago it was 50/50. National preparing to run on tax cuts, helping working families, competent governance.
  Well, who would mention tax cuts now ? Ardern and Robertson have 24/7 access to the media, flags unfurled behind, sycophantic media hanging on their every word.
  They really have pulled this one out of the fire. Sure the economy is stuffed for decades, private sector employees thrown on scrap heap (but not Govt workers), public cowering in their homes while those used to flouting the rules (gangs, ministers) roam the streets.
  Looks like they will rule over these ashes for another three years.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:34am
  - brett68
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    If National sticks with Bridges then they have decided to not contest the election this year and let Labour rule outright.
    
    3 37
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    April 5, 2020 9:49am
    - rockape
      
      why would Nation fire broadsides now when they will be hidden by the fog of corona virus. It would be pointless. The time will come for a critique of the Labour Government and to show National is the best party to recover NZ from the depths of recession . That time isnt now.
      
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      April 5, 2020 11:20am
      - brett68
        
        Be honest, does Simon Bridges have the ability to sell to the NZ voter a different path to what Labour will be putting forward?
        Not from anything I’ve seen he just doesn’t have it.
        
        Before this I thought it was 50/50 who was going to win this year, I now believe it’s heavily stacked in favor of Ardern.
        
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        April 5, 2020 11:40am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The longer Ardern reigns the longer the rope–it’s uncurling.
      One more crisis is all it will take…
      
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      April 5, 2020 11:58am
      - brett68
        
        Utter bollocks, they wrote the same shit on The Standard for years.
        
        This will be the end of John Key, that will be the end of John Key, Key is finished, etc etc.
        
        Cindy is going to be at her emoting best, pitching the new vision for NZ, it’s going to be great it’s going to be this new wonderful caring country, where everyone’s happy and looked after!!
        
        Bridges who’s a terrible orator at the best of times hasn’t got a chance, you can carry on drinking the kool-aid if you want but don’t be surprised if Labour ends up winning by a clear majority.
        
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        April 5, 2020 12:34pm
  - lastmanstanding
    
    I wouldnt be too sure. If unemployment increases to the rates the economists are predicting 15% plus IMHO the COL will lose.
    
    When people get into the voting booth they vote with their hip pocket and what has happened to their family and friends. At 15% plus most people will know someone or be close to someone who is out of work and suffering.
    
    Of course this depends on whether we have an election anytime soon but it requires a 75% vote of the Parliament to cancel/delay an election.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:59am
    - DeepBlue
      
      I can’t see any reason why National would delay. The election is still 5+ months away. Plenty of time for reckoning. Both parties will have to put up their strategy for recovery and National had better have a very clear strategy which gives the least pain.
      
      Labour will try and bring in Capital Gains Tax/Wealth Tax/Inheritance Tax/Top tax and they still have to sell it.
      
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      April 5, 2020 2:02pm
    - Scooter
      
      I think we can add people in the tourism industry, butchers, greengrocers to the list of industries this COL has pissed off. Maybe not so many feeling the love at election time.
      
      4 1
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      April 5, 2020 6:45pm
      - Scooter
        
        Forgot to add journalists.
        
        4 1
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        April 5, 2020 6:46pm
  - Ruahine
    
    It is a great time to be a Stalinist in New Zealand.
    
    5 2
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    April 5, 2020 11:06am
  - tf78
    
    I think people are already mentally turning off the all government’s nagging messages. All they will see if we do have and election is what this government has done to their lives. Labour will be absolute gone burgers.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:22am
- niggly
  
  To add insult to injury, Jacinda continues to give the magazine publishing industry a beaming two fingered salute – as the Minister in charge of that portfolio she still hasn’t reversed the ban on magazines being deemed “essential” so they can be published!
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:50am
  - Ruahine
    
    She is going to buy the magazines that are nice to her from Bauer. Your money of course.
    
    7 1
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    April 5, 2020 11:04am
- Colville
  
  Sorry Manolo me ole mate but I think we will be looking at Ms Tilty Head Frowny Face for 3 more years yet.
  
  For the Nats to have a chance now they would need to build a case that Joe Muppet on the street can understand/believe that Jacinda could have done better and Joe Muppet just dosent want to think that hard.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:56am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    The sad part about Colville’s post is that it is 100% correct.
    Joe Muppet just does not want to think that hard.
    That is a cold hard brutal truth.
    
    4 2
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    April 5, 2020 10:38am
    - Unity
      
      I don’t think the Sheeple actually think at all. They just go along with all the fluff and we have had plenty of that.
      
      4 1
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      April 5, 2020 2:56pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    My advice to National is to campaign on the very sage advice of someone who was singularly more brilliant than the combined intelligence of all current MPs:
    
    “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. — Albert Einstein
    
    The problems we will face are a result of this governments decisions, not the result of ‘the virus’. We need new/different thinking to recover. Labour have shown us that they have no ability to deliver new thinking.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:59am
  - EssenX
    
    It’s also very hard to build that case when the media doesn’t give it enough oxygen. However, I feel that the media has started to turn. There is increase in critical articles about the lockdown and the lack of an exit strategy, and all of a sudden we’re hearing about what Key, Joyce, English etc think. Are journalists getting “woke” to the fact that their Government is not handling this well?
    
    I suspect this is all self-interest though: the media is concerned that the way things are going, there will be none of them left at the end of it.
    
    In some ways, I feel sorry for the media organisations. There will be great people in these organisations that do a great job and have no role in setting the agenda, who will lose their livelihoods. But I also feel just a little bit of contempt. The media has created this problem by not holding the Government to a high standard. Ardern may have arrived into the role unready, but she and her Ministers may have grown into it if the media asked hard questions to hold them accountable. Unfortunately, COVID-19 will be the latest in, what is now, a long line of failures.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:12am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Joe Muppet won’t have to think hard – Joe Muppet will probably be out of a job and beholden to a WINZ handout for the foreseeable future. If the COVID numbers here have truly started to level off where they are, and it doesn’t last (in NZ) much longer, a lot of Joes are going to be asking why the same health result couldn’t have been achieved by just locking down the borders properly and not trashing the economy
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:32pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      That presumes they don’t look at Britain, 40,000 cases, 4000 deaths is 10% fatalities. NZ as today 1000 cases (rounded down), 1 death is 0.1%.
      I know we are not at the 4 week mark, but at this time we are looking better than those countries that didn’t close as soon as NZ did in the cycle.
      Viewing this through a political lens is pointless because both major parties are more or less on the same page.
      
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      April 5, 2020 2:47pm
      - Evadne
        
        Your figures for the UK are well off. They’re only testing people who are really sick, really vulnerable, or really important.
        
        Estimates for the true figures is somewhere between 100,000 & a million.
        
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        April 5, 2020 6:11pm
Maggie Pie

When I got home yesterday afternoon went shopping up at New World.
Found myself pushing the trolley around the corners like i was in a haunted house.
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April 5, 2020 9:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I like watching people recoil in horror if I approach 2 metres. ?
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:50am
  - Dougal10
    
    I just let everyone else monitor their distance and shop normally.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:54am
  - krazykiwi
    
    On the surface this might be amusing, but the suspicion and fear that is being cultivated in Labour’s social engineering petri dish will have lasting cultural and psychological costs.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Did the same in NZ. Health Minister said there were no flights coming in from China. That was a lie, they were coming from Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney – after previously coming from China. Do not trust ANYTHING the Govt is telling you. They are lying 24/7.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/disaster-motion-34-million-travelers-poured-us-coronavirus/story?id=69933625&fbclid=IwAR0ET6yoolnYEW4CroKzJM5USwQieXABR-lnkU3ZNu7JofwV4VPZhUzD1AY
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April 5, 2020 9:45am
- Ruahine
  
  You are correct Steve.
  Just go to Flightradar24.com.
  Graphic display of flights occuring around the world.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:02am
- krazykiwi
  
  Air NZ is flying twice daily to Shanghai and back. NZ287 and NZ289.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:04am
  - secondcumming
    
    A mate of mine is a pilot with Air NZ and is now regularly flying *freight only* to Shanghai.
    Most recently, twenty tons of Crayfish destined for the Chines market.
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:51pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Any passengers aboard?
    
    4 1
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    April 5, 2020 3:18pm
    - secondcumming
      
      No. He was saying it’s quite eerie making your way to the back of an empty 747.
      
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      April 5, 2020 3:40pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Blatant lying , check Flight Radar right now, there is a China Southern Flight CZ305 coming from GUANGZHOU to AKL over Queensland right now 11.03 am.
  Yesterday at this time there were 2 flights incoming from Hong Kong and 1 from Shanghai.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:08am
  - mark15
    
    Cz305 is a cargo flight.I know this because an aliexpress item was tracked and traced to it.
    
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    April 5, 2020 4:25pm
Odakyu-sen

“Did the same in NZ. Health Minister said there were no flights coming directly in from China.”

There. Fixed it.
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April 5, 2020 9:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Correct quote, thanks
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:42am
Pete George

Bridges was interviewed on Q+A this morning, and it was far the best I’ve seen him. Sensible, largely supportive of Government measures dealing with Covid, but pertinent questions about testing and quarantining of incoming travelers.

He seemed to be natural and well informed.

This perhaps shows the benefits of being isolated from party strategists and media trainers.
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April 5, 2020 9:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No, shows you haven’t been following Bridges closely.
  
  He’s usually well-informed.
  
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  April 5, 2020 9:55am
  - Pete George
    
    Maybe, but usually poorly advised or chose poorly about what to talk about.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:06am
  - Pete George
    
    And he has been poorly informed about what turns viewers and listeners off.
    
    So good to seem him doing his own thing, and very well.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:12am
    - Unity
      
      I think his biggest problem is the way he speaks. It’s very off-putting but I was pleased that today on Q+A he was much improved but still a way to go. Is anyone helping him with this?
      
      5 1
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      April 5, 2020 2:58pm
- Ian Boag
  
  I was reading the Economist (again) – a reflective article about the change of Labour Party leadership. Corbyn has gone and the new guy is a bit more mainstream. They do make a point that it is difficult being the Leader of the Opposition in a situation like the one they face. UK situation is not unlike ours, except their “lockdown” is less extreme.
  
  It is no secret that my politics are somewhat to the left of most KBers. My circle of friends and acquaintances know this too. I get introduced to new people as “my socialist mate”. Bit of an overstatement but who cares.
  
  Be all that as it may, I have been surprised at the number of my good Tory mates who tell me (unprompted) that Jacinda is doing a great job. Just saying. Go figure.
  
  Personally I think whoever was PM would have taken a similar approach to what we are seeing. Basically spray helicopter money around to keep things afloat – Bill/Simon might have helicoptered it into slightly different places. Whatever. I think Simon comes across as sensible and if he became PM tomorrow, nothing much would change. Just saying.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:12am
  - EssenX
    
    In the midst of crisis, the incumbent always good. Ardern looks good. Trump looks good. Approval ratings rise. This is short-term.
    
    Long-term effects stem from the consequences of the short-term decisions. The real question is how things are being handled in the background. Ardern, publicly, is doing well at saying the right things and looking like she is dealing with the situation. However, if you have knowledge or networks about these things, then you know that the Government has been misleading, withholding information, and generally dealing with things poorly. As a simple example, she could have sacked Clark and looked GREAT. But she didn’t! Over time, these small errors accumulate and start to look horrible. If I were a Labour supporter, I’d be demanding more from her because when the economy tanks, her support will tank, and their ability to deliver their policy will disappear fast.
    
    It’s speculative to assume how Bridges or someone else would fare as they are not in the role. We can only judge the incumbent.
    
    The interesting thing is how will National respond to this in 2-3 months time. I think they are deliberately holding back for now. Will we see them push a nationalist and populist agenda in 2-3 months, especially if the economy and jobs tank? The circumstances could be ripe for it.
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:25am
    - Ian Boag
      
      a nationalist and populist agenda
      
      What might that look like? eg Does “nationalist” mean we would stop trading with China? Genuinely curious. “populist” …. ? I guess there could be a lot of “we would have done this better/different ” ….
      
      There is no question that the economy will tank. It is hard to imagine what would resuscitate tourism or Air NZ …..
      
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      April 5, 2020 12:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        His was the first comment I have seen here contrasting the prospects for Trump and Ardern.
        Trump appears to be getting a slight poll boost. Well, not so much a boost as a decline in his disapproval ratings. We don’t have as frequent polling here, but I’d expect Ardern to be getting some polling result.
        But I wonder how many here think the Covid-19 response in the US and NZ will see the re-election of Trump and Ardern.
        
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        April 5, 2020 3:05pm
      - EssenX
        
        I’m not sure what it would look like in New Zealand, but these themes are on the rise globally and COVID-19 may accelerate it. The reason I mentioned National is that I recently read Ray Dalio’s excellent essay on populism and a small part studies Muldoon: https://www.economicprinciples.org/downloads/bw-populism-the-phenomenon.pdf
        
        National could use/misuse the environment to its advantage if it is desperate to win the election. Bridges could go “tough” to contrast against Ardern’s “softness” and in these times of uncertainty, a tough image may appeal. Alternatively, ACT and Seymour may use it to their advantage to build their party vote and help get National across the line. ACT could certainly appeal to liberalism and I understand that they’re already attracting increasing support from gun owners. Perhaps Peters will use it to resuscitate New Zealand First? Wait… Peters would have recycled his tired populism anyway!
        
        For what it’s worth, my gut feel is that, at this stage, it’s still likely both Ardern and Trump are re-elected. But only just and there’s still a lot of time for disruptive events to take place.
        
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        April 5, 2020 8:41pm
    - mark15
      
      I think those errors have had 2 1/2 years to accumulate already
      
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      April 5, 2020 4:27pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        I think it will have an influence on the elections, it’s a once in a lifetime event. I don’t say it will be the right influence unless the picture is very clear. One question is whether it is picking up bodies as well as picking up an economy. If it is the later, the hurdle is not so high.
        
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        April 5, 2020 8:46pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      @Essen
      I think your post is reasoned and intelligent. Debate and all that – even though I don’t agree with all you have to say. But why some drongo would downtick it baffles me …
      
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      April 5, 2020 7:19pm
      - EssenX
        
        There seems to be someone who downticks everyone!
        
        1 1
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        April 5, 2020 8:22pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      National will have to live off any mistakes yet depending on the outcomes mistakes may be accepted.
      The way Sweden succeeds or fails looms large on how the sun will set in NZ. There are now many internal calls for it to close down.
      The shock is seeing the scenes in America, if it’s no worse than the flu then the question is why in other years have semi-trailers not been lined up at the hospitals in NY to take the dead away.
      For now, we must work hard on the stamping out and prepare for the tracking that will be required in level 3. Politics should come later.
      
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      April 5, 2020 8:02pm
John Warren

The child MP has been … [deleted – mod.] and writing 6th form essays again:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120807860/opinion–the-way-things-were-thats-no-longer-our-future
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April 5, 2020 9:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That was rubbish. She did not answer the question – twice, and was not called on it
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:48am
oldfella

The big question: is Cindy still set on ‘eradicating’ the Chinese Cororavirus? She keeps using that word, yet there’s not a single informed voice on the planet that thinks it’s even possible. We need to contain it at some kind of acceptable level that doesn’t overwhelm the health system while we wait for a vaccine. And while we’re waiting, get the country back to work.
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April 5, 2020 9:56am
- Tricati
  
  She’s onto Coronavirus after she eliminates child poverty – Just be kind
  
  24 1
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  April 5, 2020 10:28am
  - oldfella
    
    And after she’s eliminated Mycoplasma bovis.
    How is that going by the way? Anyone know?
    Have they tried and failed – and spent a load of our money – in eradicating it and switched to containment yet?
    
    11 2
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    April 5, 2020 10:48am
    - Dougal10
      
      It’s a disaster. But MPI staff are riding the gravey train of hotels and rental utes.
      
      14 1
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      April 5, 2020 10:57am
    - marcw
      
      One of the gutsy decisions IMO that this Government has taken – at present, all indications are that they may be on top of the outbreak, and credit to them for that, including to Damian O’Connor. Still too early to say, but we MAY be one of the first in the world to achieve this. Remarkable if confirmed.
      
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      April 5, 2020 10:59am
      - Dougal10
        
        Your indications must vary widely from what i see daily in a hot spot area. Whose data are you reading.
        
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        April 5, 2020 12:54pm
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        The sad part of all this is that with the lockdown I cannot buy a couple of mates a drink each. Those mates have a huge knowledge of this subject; and most of what they say does not make it to the media. For the price of two handles of beer, and a couple of racing tips a conversation with them is sorely missed.
        On a lighter note, one of them was rude. Tauhei’s tips??? His family tipped the Germans in the last two wars!!!
        
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        April 5, 2020 7:57pm
      - marcw
        
        Dougal, I do rely on MSM reports, which I am prepared to accept may give a “fake” impression. Can you update us on your hot-spot info to give us balance?
        
        -BTW, that’s where blogs can be so useful. Giving us the news that MSM can’t or won’t publish. We need to hear your viewpoint.
        
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        April 5, 2020 8:08pm
    - rockape
      
      There a waiting to fix that until they have resolved the problems with Flechers and Ihumatoa and that comes after the have built 100,000 new homes they said were needed desperately.
      
      12 1
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      April 5, 2020 11:26am
Maggy Wassilieff

So much for Ardern having a wee chat with Scott Morrison.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/413481/covid-19-australia-urges-new-zealanders-without-support-to-return-home
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April 5, 2020 10:01am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No Aussie politician will ever get any political problem at from shitting on New Zealand and New Zealanders.
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:17am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Fair weather friends. You are right, it isn’t going to change.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:31am
  - burt
    
    We only got into this position because our politicians (over decades, both National & Labour) have been too gutless to treat the Australian govt and it’s people the way their government treats our government and our people.
    
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    April 5, 2020 10:34am
  - Prince
    
    And no NZ politician will get a political problem from shitting on Aussies, especially in front of their media on their home soil.
    Nice one, J.
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:22pm
  - Nutta
    
    But Jacinda talks to him and he capitulates in the face of her brilliance every time?
    
    Or that’s what the Stuff/NZH cheerleaders write…
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:16pm
- Prince
  
  Better stock up the benefit bank account, Incoming.
  
  5 1
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  April 5, 2020 12:21pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    1,2,3 or 400,000? Returning NZers to put on welfare and house.
    
    5 1
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    April 5, 2020 2:12pm
waripori

The article from Nate Silver at 538 is worth a read. As usual it is quite mathematical because that is what they do.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-case-counts-are-meaningless

You can pick your option as to where you think we are.
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April 5, 2020 10:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Speaking of 538, I see their approval poll tracker has Trump’s disapproval rating below 50% for the first time in three years. Helluva job, tRumpy!
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:41am
  - Fletch
    
    This is the same 538 that predicted a win for Hillary…
    
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    April 5, 2020 11:11am
    - waripori
      
      Not really. They gave her 70% chance which is the same as giving Trump a 30% chance. They do statistics not predictions.
      
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      April 5, 2020 12:42pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It turned out to be pretty accurate, too. Trump squeaked through a very narrow path to victory.
        
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        April 5, 2020 3:08pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  So in other words, no one really knows anything and it would seem premature to say that any country is over their peak.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:25am
Philview

Message to Grant Robertson. Where are those unemployment statistics at? Other countries like the USA seem to be able to provide a running commentary on those statistics.
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April 5, 2020 10:24am
- cmm
  
  You want stats?
  
  Sorry Robbo just has that surprised look permanently etched on his face.
  
  You know the one: “Oooh, I just sat on a lollypop and I haven’t yet figured out if it feels good.”
  
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  April 5, 2020 10:49am
- emmess
  
  To be fair, NZ has always been quite slow at releasing economic figures.
  I think we can take the US as a reasonable proxy for what is happening here though.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:08am
  - Cobolt24
    
    From WashPo:
    
    “The data from Israel is even worse and gives us a glimpse into our future. The country’s unemployment rate is now 24.9 percent, up from only 4 percent the month before the government instituted social distancing and lockdown policies”
    
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    April 5, 2020 3:52pm
- Nutta
  
  Employment is an aspirational target… doesn’t need measuring.
  
  3 1
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  April 5, 2020 2:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like Labour UK will get a clean-out of its anti-semitic folk.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52164589
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April 5, 2020 10:40am
- mark15
  
  You mean the Muslims Maggy?
  Not a chance.
  
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  April 5, 2020 4:33pm
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/JordNZ/status/1246564480080703489

We’re in the middle of the worst public health emergency in our lifetimes and the Minister of Health is hiding from the media. Let that sink in for a bit.

Some very salient points in the comments like,

Why doesn’t
@jacktame
invite
@JennySalesa
on? She’s the Associate Health Minister and surely must have been reading the min briefing papers??? Her ministerial salary hasn’t been cut and she’s no where to be seen!
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April 5, 2020 10:57am
- Hollyfield
  
  Maybe she has been asked? Maybe she’s also “in hiding”? Early in the week, she was asked (as she’s Minister of Customs) about reports that people arriving into Auckland airport were not being properly screened. Her reply was that she didn’t know what was happening at the airport, she wasn’t there at Auckland airport because she was in lockdown. She seemed to get some information later in the week though.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:25am
Fletch

Math fun for today. How many days/hours is a trillion seconds? It may surprise you –

One American trillion (ie. 10^12) (Leap years counted & Century Leap Years Counted)

One Trillion Seconds = 31,688 Years, 269 Days, 1 Hour, 46 Minutes, 40 Seconds.

Oh, and a billion seconds is just over 31 years.
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April 5, 2020 11:15am
- krazykiwi
  
  If I walked into Wellington Hospital with a $1m cash donation, I’d need to turn up every day for 2,250 years to get through my 1 Trillion dollars.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:28am
- chuk
  
  It’s difficult to comprehend how big one trillion is until you see it explained the way Fletch has done.
  
  One trillion seconds ago Neanderthals were still walking around parts of Europe.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:31pm
  - rockape
    
    And now they have to walk around the halls of Parliament.
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:56pm
  - Ian Hawthorn
    
    Your knowledge is impressive but perhaps out of date. New carbon dating data recently resulted in a new estimated date for the disappearance of the neanderthals
    10,000 years earlier than the old one. By the new estimate they would all have been gone a trillion seconds ago.
    
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    April 5, 2020 5:00pm
    - chuk
      
      Thanks Ian. I will have to find a different example to illustrate just how mind-blowingly big one trillion is.
      
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      April 5, 2020 11:10pm
- cmm
  
  Math? WTF wis wrong with saying Maths!
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:58pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Its actually mathematics or maths. as maths. is an abbreviation. During the Covid 19 or wahta ever it is called we must be precise. Take the new rules on not swimming. Is floating allowed? and diving?
    
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    April 5, 2020 1:24pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Fletch is just heavily influenced by American media.
    
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    April 5, 2020 3:11pm
kglm

History will be able to look back on, and judge, the global reaction to the pandemic, when it has better information. This information will be the true scale and mortality rate of the infection. Random anti-body testing (showing the true number who have had the disease) is what will be needed to obtain this information.

In my opinion, history will judge that the current reaction was excessive and based on hysteria and unnecessary fear. That hysteria and fear was stoked by (in order of culpability) the media, politicians and the health authorities.

The true scale and mortality rate of the infection is not yet known, but evidence is starting to emerge. The published scale of the infection so far, is based on testing. There is undoubtedly some multiple of these numbers of cases that have gone undetected. There have been public statements from experts that a significant number of cases are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms. So the number of cases will be much more than reported. This means that the reported death rate per head of population is also some multiple less of that reported based on confirmed cases. It is also becoming clear that the most vulnerable are the elderly and those with pre-existing health conditions, and that the risks for others is much smaller.

In New Zealand, at the time of writing there are just under confirmed 1000 cases, 10 current hospitalisations and 1 death. Even based on confirmed cases, the hospitalisation and mortality rate is low. The true severity of the disease in New Zealand, per head of population, and per head of those infected, will be lower.

The national strategy for fighting the pandemic is to eradicate it in New Zealand by enforcing social distancing until the disease is unable to spread and dies out. I believe that this strategy will fail. Eradicating a disease is a rare thing although it has happened (e.g. smallpox), but only when there is a vaccine widely available and administered. That is not the case yet for this disease. We will get to the end of the lock-down (however long that may be) with pockets of the disease still existing, which would then break out again when lock-down ends. That cycle would then need to be repeated again if eradication is still the (unobtainable) objective.

In my opinion, the official reaction has been excessive and carries its own huge costs. I have read that hospitals have been emptied out to about 50% capacity, mainly by cancelling elective surgery, in anticipation of a large influx of pandemic cases. This has not yet happened (10 hospitalisations at time of writing), and looks unlikely to happen. There has already been a health cost of this – those suffering through the cancellation of elective surgery.

Then, of course, there is the economic cost of the eradication strategy. This is huge – many have lost jobs and income, and economic activity is well down on what is was before. Eventually, the flow on effects of this will magnify to acceptable proportions. Lock-down is unsustainable. If it goes on long enough, in a vain attempt at eradication, economic and social collapse will ensue, the costs of which will dwarf that of the current pandemic.

In my view that only strategy that will be successful is management of the disease. That means accepting it will run thought the community, and attempting to deal with, and minimise the consequences. That will largely mean measures focusing on to protecting the vulnerable (the elderly and already sick). The rest of us would need to take our chances.

Yes, there will be deaths among the younger and healthier population, but that is the case with any serious disease. All health resourcing decisions involve making life and death choices (e.g. what drugs Pharmac funds, how much is the national health budget). Health resourcing is always a rationed commodity.

Sweden is a good example of the type of strategy I propose. It has allowed its economy to function (no lock-down) while taking some targeted protective measures. It seems to be working for Sweden. Its death rate is comparable with other countries, without the huge economic and social costs.

We are heading down an unsustainable, and unsuccessful path. A fresh look at the strategy, untainted by false fears and moral panic, is needed.
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April 5, 2020 11:28am
- Brian McDonald
  
  For NZ we won’t have the figures as to what would have happened if we didn’t lockdown. You use the current figures to demonstrate your argument but they are the favourable result of the lockdown, not a yardstick by which to measure something that didn’t happen.
  Also, we yet don’t know the strategy long term as to the possibility of further breakouts once the lockdown finishes but do not misguide yourself that there won’t be one as the point is firmly understood and will carefully be handled just like firemen stand by an extinguished blaze until being sure it is out.
  This is the strong point Orr is making in the quote above about a new economy and being criticised for it.
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:55am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Ardern quoted modelling from the eve of lockdown that we would have had 4,000 cases this weekend (presumably if the measures the Govt. had taken had not been enacted, which is why she raised the report). If the current hospitalisation rate is applied, we’d have had 60 people in hospital from COVID-19, and 12 in ICU. Does that seem like “overwhelming the health system” to you? If they’re the numbers they’ve been working from, were they worth trashing the economy for?
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:28pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The prospective mental health costs are visible to many of us but the costs of basic hospital closure is hidden. We do have an offsetting bonus with lower roads deaths and accidents.
  Should NZ remain in this state to prevent thoe extra losses–I’m sure some social minded medical statistician is keen to advise. Robbo and Treasury will just have to find the funds for their new kind society.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Bored?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct8cuk8pXtc
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April 5, 2020 11:36am
Brian McDonald

On the subject of getting back to work.
I am going to write the Finance Minister and ask him to consider moving forward due dates of vehicle COF and WOF by the number of days those vehicles are not used during the lockdown period including as the levels change.
There are big compliance costs around commercial vehicles in their 6months COF periods. If 2 of those months are off the road it would not require any extra checks to have a paper authorising the extended period on a particular vehicle. March 21st becomes May 21st and so on. If we want the business to be able to pick up again this is important.
I know because the Minister said Friday that commercial rents are an issue – the Government should be bold on that point as it was with wage subsidies. Leaving smaller businesses to battle on with rent payments is an unwelcome pressure when in lockdown or coming out from it.
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April 5, 2020 11:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Rego as well. Paying for something you can’t use
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:54am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Exactly.
    
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    April 5, 2020 12:06pm
  - Paulus
    
    Like Sports Sponsorship ?
    Rugby, Cricket, Netball and others.
    Time and support (lack of it) Pro Rata rebates required.
    
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    April 5, 2020 2:05pm
oldfella

This is what happens when people ignore the social distancing guidelines. /sarc
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8187235/Crazed-knifeman-shouts-Allahu-Akbar-stabbing-two-people-death-France.html
I wonder if the French would say that this guy is ‘one of us’?
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April 5, 2020 11:52am
- Shut the hell up you Fascist!
  
  After the Rainbow Warrior affair he probably is completely in line with the bloody French!
  
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  April 5, 2020 11:57am
- rockape
  
  I would have thought ‘social distancing” would have stopped all that. Why dont peopled obey the RULES!
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:54pm
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

An informant [sic] who counsels criminals at a prison in NZ has told me that the prisons are about to explode as day trips are cancelled.

Odd though. Labour says in wrong to lock up crims to protect the citizens but sees nothing wrong in arbitrarily locking up its citizens in order to pad Cindy’s CV.
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April 5, 2020 11:55am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

More fun. If your sense of humour is broken, don’t watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqiHE4RItw
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April 5, 2020 11:56am
oldfella

How are Hone Harawira’s road blocks going up north? Has anyone asked the PM if she’s okay with what’s happening up there?
Nah, probably not our MSM, anyway.
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April 5, 2020 11:59am
- Prince
  
  Interesting to note the different coverage Scott Morrison gets from his media – arm’s length, questioning, critical, compared to our lot’s adulation.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

An opinion piece by Judith Collins
(well-hidden on the online stuff site)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120815679/heres-how-coronavirus-will-change-us-judith-collins
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April 5, 2020 11:59am
- Prince
  
  Excellent piece, but I suspect all the questions she thinks will be asked will be drowned out by the media heralding our great leader as the saviour, no matter what.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Spoilt by the header video Laboured promo.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:17pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Definitely read it. I love the last line
  
  “And when anyone mentions Greta, we will ask, “Who?””
  
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  April 5, 2020 1:18pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Lol. It took her barely a few sentences before she mentioned butchers.
  
  This will be the catch-cry of the National Party during the greatest global health apocalypse for 100 years.
  
  Butchers.
  
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  April 5, 2020 2:19pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Also, JuCo needs to be called on her slack reporting when comparing wage subsidies. The NZ wage subsidy is after tax while the AUS subsidy is before tax.
  
  She worries about butchers, but what of her own employees, the Kauri stump-diggers?
  
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  April 5, 2020 2:25pm
- Philview
  
  I think Judith is underestimating the ideological bent of this Government. They aren’t doing to ditch their climate change plans because of this. They are going to use this as cover to implement extreme left policy.
  
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  April 5, 2020 4:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Hubby just back from Local 4-square and discovered that re-usable bags are no longer permitted inside the shop.

The Store has placed a table outside the door on which folks can leave their toxic bags and then can pack their goods themselves when they exit.
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April 5, 2020 12:18pm
- artemisia
  
  Several states in the US have banned reusable bags for the time being. Chances of New Zealand including use of reusable bags in their contact tracing – Nil.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:38pm
  - igm
    
    New World Pioneer, Palmerston North, have banned personal bags as they are deemed a health hazard.
    The PTPM was told banning of single use disposable bags was a disaster when first mooted.
    Has she done anything right since Peters selected her? I think not!
    
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    April 5, 2020 4:45pm
- Fletch
  
  Never should have gotten rid of the single-use bags. Plenty of stories about how reusables pass on germs and can make people sick but the do-gooders decided it would be better for the planet….
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:39pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes, stories. Yes, reusable bags can carry bacteria. No, there is no reliable evidence of this resulting in increased disease rates.
    
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    April 5, 2020 3:15pm
rockape

I see Labour opposition in the UK has decided to appoint a top prosecution lawyer as leader.
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April 5, 2020 12:43pm
- rockape
  
  Not so much his deputy. “Ms Rayner – previously Bowen – was born in 1980 in Stockport.
  
  She left school at the age of 16 after falling pregnant and did not get any qualifications.
  
  Ms Rayner also revealed in an interview earlier this year that she cared for her mother, who had severe depression and attempted to take an overdose when she was young.
  
  Later, she returned to college part-time, and did courses in care work and British Sign Language – crediting Labour’s Sure Start centres for “turning my life around”.
  
  Ms Rayner now has three children and married Mark Rayner, a Unison official, in 2010.
  
  In 2017, Ms Rayner hit the headlines when she became a grandmother at the age of 37.
  
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  April 5, 2020 12:47pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    decided to appoint a top prosecution lawyer
    
    Not so much his deputy
    
    Correct, rockape, Ms Rayner does not appear to have ever been a lawyer at all.
    
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    April 5, 2020 3:17pm
- Paulus
  
  One who has a Knighthood “Sir” – good socialism named after the famous Labourite Keir Hardie.
  
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  April 5, 2020 2:09pm
Fletch

With the new hand washing regime we’re implementing, with the nationwide sanitary standards, I wonder how much the incidence of the regular flu will drop? We may well have the healthiest winter ever overall. ?
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April 5, 2020 12:49pm
- cmm
  
  That effect has been observed in UK.
  
  The UK is having far lower than average deaths from respiratory illnesses even when Covid 19 is included in the mix.
  
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  April 5, 2020 1:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“We can only test those who are making themselves available” New for you PTPM, many are being turned away.
Another lie, just 2 minutes aga
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April 5, 2020 1:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  News* ffs
  
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  April 5, 2020 1:23pm
- cmm
  
  L
  
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  April 5, 2020 1:29pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Hmm Standards…
    
    3 1
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    April 5, 2020 1:33pm
  - cmm
    
    Ok, does anyone think I am being harsh here?
    
    When she gets heat from the GPs about their tests being turned down she blames the labs. The labs say they can’t do more due to lack of resources. So she blames people for not going to be tested.
    
    Who is she going to blame next? The courier companies?
    
    All we know for sure is that it is not the fault of the cyclist who ran out of meningitis and flu vaccines.
    
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    April 5, 2020 1:36pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The downticker can’t face the truth
      
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      April 5, 2020 1:40pm
    - MCos
      
      I only know one person who felt they might require a test due to how they were feeling, my daughter.
      She rang her GP who suggested she get a test, which she did at Panmure & awaits results.
      
      I heard a woman interviewed on the radio this morning who knew she had been infected by the bug, but didn’t feel she needed to get tested because she wasn’t particularly unwell and knew a positive test result changed nothing.
      She was in the UK.
      Of course in some societies, maybe the majority, people put up with the discomfort rather than fork out money to a clinic for, essentially, nothing.
      Maybe people even die untested.
      So when the Worldometer says Coronavirus Cases:
      1,201,443 everyone knows it’s to be taken as indicative only.
      
      Thailand has seventy odd provinces and each one has sub districts; in one of which my sister in law & husband have a home up country.
      One day a team of nurses toured around the area checking up on everyone for Covid-19 symptoms.
      Unfortunately the coverage is patchy. The government provides the money to the local health authority. Some of them are conscientious and others spend the money on fancy cars and women.
      
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      April 5, 2020 4:40pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      My comment was in respect to your initial statement not being seen as a breach of moderation standards. I agree with the initial sentiment completely. A lot of my comments have just “disappeared”. Bit like resistance fighters in France….
      
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      April 5, 2020 6:38pm
  - cmm
    
    Ok, I will apologise for tainting DPF’s blog, but I cannot apologise to Her.
    
    It is astounding the games She will play at a time like this and how effectively the truth evades her.
    
    As a “leader” it is her job to get people working together instead She seems to rub people’s noses together to cause antagonism.
    
    Disgusting.
    
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    April 5, 2020 8:01pm
- niggly
  
  Well all I heard was Jacinda using her press conference for electioneering (when comparing “how much better” NZ was doing (“thanks to the CoL”) in certain cherry-picked measures compared to other countries) and another two figured salute in terms of giving businesses a hint of certainty in terms when restrictions might be lifted so they can plan accordingly (now that cases are slowing) by slyly dissing those businesses and people that are flagging economic concerns.
  
  Who on earth writes her rubbish speeches or does she get the crayons out to cross-out anything they write that makes any semblance of facts and reason?
  
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  April 5, 2020 1:59pm
  - Scooter
    
    I wonder if she’ll be skiting about the economy when it tanks, compared to other countries.
    
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    April 5, 2020 8:23pm
cmm

Canterbury hospitals still have no Covid19 patients, but still they’ve shut down the hospital for pretty much everything except acute/emergency.

Even outpatient clinics have been shut down.

This is putting cancer/heart/whatever patients at risk.
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April 5, 2020 1:32pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Worse still, the infection stats are dropping, so to bolster the stats that justify the pandemic, they are adding “probable infection”.
  
  Probable infection is defined as “someone for whom the Coronavirus test came back as a negative”, but we feel that they should be positive, because of who they live with or who they know.
  
  This is based on a screwed up non scientific assumption that 100% of New Zealanders will be infected.
  
  So in the last 24 hours there were 48 new confirmed cases, a drop in the trend. So they have added in 41 “probable” cases to make a total of 89, and increase in the trend. What scientist would put together such horseshit stats that have no basis in science?
  
  Just like SARS, MERS, and the flu, you don’t get automatically 100% get COVID-19 just by being in the same space. If that were true, then by the law of association, tens if not hundreds of thousands have all ready been exposed and not succumbed to it.
  
  If it were true, then all passengers on cruise ships would test positive, and so would all airline flights, and the spread would have taken off at supermarkets, workplaces, restaurants, takeaways and gas stations, a lot earlier than now, going back weeks if not months. I am aware of cases going back to last year, before it was topical in the news. And not probable cases either. And all of parliament should be infected.
  
  As with any medical test, you either test positive or not.
  
  “Sir your alcohol blood reading is zero, but it is probable you are highly intoxicated your passenger is over the limit.”
  
  Who is the idiot who dreamed up this cockamamie BS to keep us in a state of fear and justify extending lock down?
  
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  April 5, 2020 2:07pm
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Not sure what the point of testing is if you’re going to ignore the result and record it as positive. Either you’re fudging the numbers to inflate them, or your test isn’t much good.
    
    How many other countries are reporting “probable” cases in their stats? I’d be interested to see what worldwide precedent there is for this testing methodology, or did the MOH just invent it?
    
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    April 5, 2020 5:28pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      If you read the link to the BBC article in my post further down you will find that other countries are doing just that.
      
      Doctors assigning death as “Covid-19” whether or
      it was Covid-19, in many cases without testing.
      
      Much in the same way Jeremy Clarkson would jokingly assign a motor accident death involving a Prius as “Death by Prius”.
      
      Watching Grand Tour at the moment. Love the fact that they are still non PC.
      
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      April 5, 2020 6:13pm
  - cmm
    
    “As with any medical test, you either test positive or not.”
    
    While I generally agree with your observations, it is not true that the test is as good as that.
    
    The test does not give just a pass/fail. It gives a level. If that level is over a threshold then it is a definite positive, under a different threshold and it is a definite negative, somewhere in the middle and you need a retest.
    
    I don’t know what the details of the NZ testing/reporting regime are, but it could make a difference.
    
    Indeed there were some people who tested positive on the cruise ships but had no symptoms and a day or two later tested negative after they had been taken off the ship.
    
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    April 6, 2020 7:42am
- NZDirect
  
  Jacinda will probably impact badly on more people with her kindness than Covid19 will
  
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  April 5, 2020 4:11pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    NZD,
    
    You may be more correct than you think.
    
    Suicides, assisted or not, will probably rise, especially in older people who are brainwashed by the media hype that DBC (Death By Covid) is certain and therefore have nothing to live for.
    
    In fact, I would not be surprised if some of the overseas stats included older people who had Covid-19 and could have survived, but having been indoctrinated by the media that they were on the Grim Reapers certain death list, simply gave up and died.
    
    This government has a very negative view of things. Nothing about getting the 15 minute blood tests, about the quinine based 100% successful cures overseas, and nothing about nutrition or bolstering immunity. Zero about giving up smoking, vaping and smoking dope. These last three things drastically increase chances of lung infections and Covid-19.
    
    Not a freaking word about the positive.
    
    … [snipped – not here. Mod. ]
    
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    April 5, 2020 6:27pm
Critical Thinker

As it currently stands in NZ on day 11 of the lockdown:
872 confirmed cases of the China Coronavirus.
167 probable cases.
156 recovered.
15 in hospital. 3 of them are in ICU.
1 death. Woman in her 70’s that already had an underlying chronic health condition.
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April 5, 2020 1:45pm
- Wired-one
  
  And an economy in ruin.
  
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  April 5, 2020 2:03pm
- JackRabbit
  
  So the death rate is currently lower than the the flu.
  
  These stats do not take into account all the others that have been infected with mild symptoms or no symptoms, who did not seek medical help or who sought medical help but were refused a CV test on the basis that they “probably aren’t” infected because they did not have all the symptoms.
  
  But now because the daily new confirmed cases is dropping, the have added in “probable” cases where people “probably” have CV19 despite no symptoms and testing negative.
  
  Yup, skewing the stats to suit the narrative. Commonly called propaganda!
  
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  April 5, 2020 2:18pm
  - MCos
    
    The MOH Definition of ‘probable’ is more sophisticated that you might have thought
    
    Probable case
    A symptomatic close contact of a confirmed case (epi-link) OR a case that meets the clinical criteria where other known aetiologies that fully explain the clinical presentation have been excluded and either has laboratory suggestive evidence or for whom testing for SARS-CoV-2 is inconclusive
    Laboratory suggestive evidence requires detection of coronavirus from a clinical specimen using pan- coronavirus NAAT (PCR).
    
    The way I read that is it’s an obvious case not yet confirmed by a test.
    
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    April 5, 2020 6:57pm
- krazykiwi
  
  So on day 11, approximately $NZ5b in damage to the economy, estimates of 200k-300k unemployed, tens of thousands of business to fail… and a government that is utterly without sound plans or strong leadership.
  
  15 2
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  April 5, 2020 2:33pm
- Poppa
  
  So when will Cindy start stamping her feet?
  
  This thing is not doing what she predicted, in fact it has been flat lining for a number of days. But with more tests being done its actually falling in real terms
  
  I doubt she is sleeping too well
  
  13 2
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  April 5, 2020 3:04pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    To not sleep well, she would have to have actual empathy (not feigned), a sense of right and wrong, and a conscience.
    
    There is no evidence of any of those three things.
    
    If there was, and she knew how to be objective, there would already be murmurings of phasing out the lock down. The 15 minute blood tests, along with the first stock of Quinine based cures would be on transport planes due to land in NZ.
    
    If this was happening, she could rightfully have her photo taken on the airport tarmac outside the C-141 Starlifter bringing the first supplies. Now that would be worth putting on the cover of a magazine, if we had any.
    
    Do the right thing Jacinda. Let’s do this!.
    
    4 2
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    April 5, 2020 6:36pm
    - Nickc2
      
      If these medicines are coming courtesy of the US and onboard a US Military aircraft, no Labour polies will be on the Tarmac to meet same.
      
      2 0
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      April 5, 2020 7:27pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      15 minute blood tests
      akas – not really ….
      Quinine based cures
      alas – not really
      
      If they were for real the whole world would be all over them. Hasn’t happened so go figure …
      
      2 2
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      April 5, 2020 7:51pm
- rockape
  
  You forgot to mention , a stuffed economy!
  
  7 1
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  April 5, 2020 3:20pm
  - Nickc2
    
    How many people will loose their homes etc having taken out a mortgage on them to start/support a business as a result of this fiasco? Scary huh?
    
    6 1
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    April 5, 2020 7:33pm
- cmm
  
  And that woman in her 70s refused ventilation.
  
  From what I have read, people with COPD (== emphysema) have a hard time on ventilators and recovery rates are somewhere around 50%.
  
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  April 6, 2020 7:46am
MrTips

Dear diary
Day 11:
-Woke up from nightmare. Dreamt I was Shane Jones. Horrifying, damp and hilarious, all at once.
– Random thought: David Clark should be encouraged to cycle 50k a day. He could reach Australia by July if he takes a snorkel.
– Neighbour is acting suspiciously. Awfully friendly and chatty. Haven’t seen his wife for a while though.
14 0
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April 5, 2020 2:11pm
Paulus

How are we going to Vote as we will still be under lockdown in September ?
Assume somebody will turn up at our houses and take notes of our votes ?
6 1
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April 5, 2020 2:11pm
- cmm
  
  If we’re still under lockdown in Sept there will be complete bloody anarchy.
  
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  April 6, 2020 7:48am
Stu2

The Auckland University model is based on 5% of cases needing hospitalisation, and 25% of those hospitalised cases needing an ICU bed

– 95% at home
– 3.75% in non-ICU bed
– 1.25% in an ICU bed

Those values look reasonable against what has happened offshore

We have 872 167-156-1 live cases=882
In a non-ICU bed 12/882=1.4%
In an ICU bed 3/882=0.3%

Some of those cases may require a higher level of care yet, which will push the bed % up.

All the same NZ looks to be having a less severe outbreak than many northern hemisphere countries.

And so is oz.
7 0
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April 5, 2020 2:27pm
- Dougal10
  
  Warm weather for us coming out of a summer vs cold spring after a very cold winter in all northern hemisphere countries.
  
  7 0
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  April 5, 2020 6:09pm
Nickc2

A must read for anybody who cares to look at things from another prospective. Don’t be blindfolded by what our MSM and CoL feed us. Please read with an open mind.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/04/reader-garry-goldsworthy-calculates-the-real-world-cost-to-you-of-our-governments-coronavirus-paymen.html
7 2
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April 5, 2020 2:31pm
krazykiwi

.
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April 5, 2020 2:33pm
Happychappy

Why does every especially Journalists that Jacinda Ardern is a nice person, two things obviously they only read about and secondly nice don’t continually lie. Jacinda has a problem that wi most certainly take her down , she doesn’t know how to tell the truth and with media source in NZ won’t take her to task that her followers care.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/simon-bridges-the-former-prosecutor-who-faces-his-greatest-trial-against-nice-person-ardern
The public are starting to wake up to her lies and it will only be a matter or time before she is caught big time, thenwait and see how nice she is.
14 2
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April 5, 2020 2:34pm
MCos

Tweet of the day
https://twitter.com/lexilegs99/status/1245612815492075521?s=21
1 1
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April 5, 2020 2:48pm
JackRabbit

A very good article on why Covid-19 death rates vary so much from country to country.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200401-coronavirus-why-death-and-mortality-rates-differ
7 0
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April 5, 2020 3:03pm
- Stu2
  
  Thanks
  The point about a high degree of antimicrobial resistance in Italy was interesting – antibiotics bouncing off secondary infections
  
  6 0
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  April 5, 2020 5:13pm
Prince

The point of these 1pm and 3pm ‘Stand-Ups’ ?
Appears to be for Labour (note the absence of coalition partners) to pat themselves on the back and try to convince us the world would have ended if not for their far-sighted brave actions.
Questions about, eg, David Clark, as today, are brushed aside and moved on abruptly.
They are really just self-promotion exercises. I wonder how long before Shaw and Peters will demand a presence, and a piece of the pie.
14 1
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April 5, 2020 3:21pm
Chuck Bird

I understand that the number of Kiwis returning to NZ is now in the hundreds. Instead of putting them in quarantine at high expense for a fortnight would it not make sense to test them and quarantine them till they got the results in a couple of days?
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April 5, 2020 3:54pm
- cmm
  
  Yes that would make sense. However one test is not going to work. That is not enough because it can take some time to develop the virus before a test returns positive. Also, there are heaps of both false positives and negatives.
  
  The following tweak to your idea would be better:
  1) Everyone quarantine.
  2) After 3 days (maybe 5) test.
  3) After another 3 days, test again.
  4) If both tests are negative, on your bike. If either test was positive, stay for 2 weeks.
  5) If symptoms develop, satay until symptoms are gone and you are deemed no longer infectious.
  
  The current self isolation where you can trot off to the supermarket (highest risk area in NZ) is complete crap.
  
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  April 5, 2020 4:38pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    1 week is better than 2.
    
    3 2
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    April 5, 2020 5:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Message to PTPM.
We do not need someone telling NZ what to do.
We need someone who is compedant. You are showing no signs – any working groups is just your personal escape.
Covid 19 has exposed you big time. Even your Policeman guy resigned but he left behind some control measures for you to follow.
Fuck! I can not even go fly my drone!
Dig deeper PTPM, we are just loving your self induced implosion.
14 3
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April 5, 2020 3:57pm
- Swifty
  
  Years ago you said you were quitting Kiwiblog – never to return.
  
  And then you returned.
  
  Why did you bullshit to us? Why did you fail to honour your promise?
  
  2 5
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  April 5, 2020 7:52pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Me? Sorry, not me
    
    0 0
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    April 6, 2020 8:04am
mikenmildagain

Seen this:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120819878/former-conservative-party-leader-colin-craig-did-not-defame-john-stringer-court-rules
The battle of Stringer v Craig ends in a scoreless draw. Only winners were the lawyers and the amused public.
Two bald men fighting over a comb.
4 8
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April 5, 2020 4:07pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVopzBl__0M
Refugee invasion of Greece is temporarily halted. Sweden, and Brazil have taken a relaxed business as usual attitude. So every liberals’ favorite country, and one of their favorite villains are on the same page. If the Swedish-Brazilian model is successful; locked down countries might have to re-consider their policies.
6 2
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April 5, 2020 4:26pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgpTF4SsUB8
Teachers’ Pet is panicking. The CCP virus may lead to a Frexit. Frances’ dependence on foreign medical supplies is a problem. They are hoarding medical supplies. Citizens are annoyed at EU for its sub par performance. Unity is lacking. TP admitted earlier that a Frexit referendum would see leave win. Soros says Brexit has opened the exit floodgates. Individual nations are handling the problem more or less alone.
5 2
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April 5, 2020 4:27pm
Michael Rodent

We have an ANZ VISA which earns Air NZ airpoints – not a very attractive benefit these days – presume the card issuers will need to address this – unless we want to fly domestically on airpoints for the next 5 years.
6 2
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April 5, 2020 4:37pm
Philview

I have been mulling over the telling off that Jacinda gave New Zealand this afternoon over the trade off between lives and the economy. It sunk in a bit, the level of power that is now in her hands. I trust her to one day remove the country from the lockdown but I don’t trust her in the sense that the economic plan they will be working on will be using this crisis to tick off many ideological boxes.
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April 5, 2020 4:45pm
- herb1
  
  Ive also been mulling her performance today.
  She has the gall to call lockdown breachers , idiots , yet barely a slap on the wrist for her nominal Minister of Health. She must be seriously lacking in self awareness to not see the hypocracy.
  
  im also mulling her self congratulations that had she not acted then “modelling ” tells her that 4000 people would be infected.
  if that is so then her destruction of the economy , wrecking peoples lives , increasing unemployment to a figure beyond that during the great depression , countless suicides etc for the grand total of saving 3 lives (1 death per 1000 so far).
  I wonder if shell release all the modelling detail and advice she used to make her decision.
  
  It either confirmed the current death rate , in which serious questions need to be asked about Arderns acceptance of the advice.
  If it had a much higher death rate then … as above
  
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  April 5, 2020 5:08pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I wonder if she’ll release all the modelling detail
    
    You’re kidding, right? There is no modelling, or rather none that would stand up to scrutiny. She watched BoJo and jumped when that model said 500,000 brits would die. She held out, hoping for her March anniversary media-fest but was finally forced to do something.
    
    I’ve said it before: She’s done too much, too late
    
    17 1
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    April 5, 2020 5:59pm
    - kiwiracer
      
      Exactly.
      
      8 1
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      April 5, 2020 6:33pm
- MrTips
  
  Her comment on lives v economy depends on pov and biological reality.
  
  She cares for lives apparently, less than one month after ramming through legislation that changed the law to say babies don’t have any rights.
  
  She cares for lives apparently, but thoroughly approves of euthanasia. The value of a life is not entirely defined by the individual concerned. Relatives and society matter.
  
  She cares for lives apparently, but has no issue with lack of progress on child poverty and kiwibuild.
  
  She cares. Don’t believe it. Not one bit.
  
  19 3
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  April 5, 2020 5:24pm
- Scooter
  
  For example will the rent freeze be lifted after 6 months?
  
  2 1
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  April 5, 2020 9:19pm
Poppa

In a funny sort of way this virus could have benefits in the end..

Borders will have to be better controlled in the future including the EU. In fact it could possibly be the end of the EU as we know it

The only thing is…..there will be no room for socialists in this type of setup
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April 5, 2020 5:01pm
Jack5

Doom for the cruise line business.

Cruise ships’ total passenger-carrying capacity has risen from about 50,000 in 1990 to over 700,000 in 2019, the South China Morning Post reports.

The 106 new cruise ships on order have delivery dates ranging from the second half of this year through to 2028.

The total value of the present 483 cruise ships has been diving.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/3078347/global-cruise-ship-fleets-lose-us4-billion-value-coronavirus
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April 5, 2020 5:06pm
Tasman Terror

Have you noticed that Cinderella has learnt a new word this week that she slips into every lecture to us plebs: ‘’charity.’’ I get they don’t know that word in socialist in “working groups.” Another two words she uses ad nauseum!Before “charity” there was “kindness.” Do you all find her rather patronising and in need of a bit of originality? “We need to have that conversation.”
18 2
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April 5, 2020 5:28pm
Peter Lane

And now we are informed by TV3 that 1083 positives is a ‘grim milestone’.

FFS get a grip. One person has died.

I’ve pretty much had enough of this shit.
28 3
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April 5, 2020 6:04pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Peter, agree entirely.
  
  The mortality rate is less then the flu. Ten people die every week from the flu.
  
  11 3
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  April 5, 2020 6:53pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s not the start of the curve that matters, it’s the peak. If it’s no big deal then get yourself to New York or India to help out.
  
  3 2
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  April 5, 2020 8:19pm
  - Peter Lane
    
    What peak is that? 5? 10?
    
    When is it going to kick in?
    
    4 2
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    April 5, 2020 8:39pm
  - mark15
    
    Keep shilling.
    
    0 2
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    April 5, 2020 9:23pm
GoVege

I emailed Jacinda months ago, and got no answer.
(Typical of Labour actually. They either ignore you or are rude.)
So I tried emailing Simon Bridges.
Got a reply a few hours later.
Was very impressed.
1 0
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April 6, 2020 9:10pm

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