General Debate 9 March 2020

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artemisia

National plan has been announced to apply common sense to rules and regs, starting with workplace health and safety and focused on costs v benefits. Scaffolding mentioned specifically.

Scaffolding is the subject of a 2015 good report by Dr Bryce Wilkinson for the NZ Initiative.
Worth a read for anyone in the construction industry and homeowners stuck with the bill, but the key takeaway is this:

The regulations were imposed with no cost-benefit assessment. WorkSafe has not struck the right balance in its scaffolding regulations, which have been spectacularly expensive.

https://nzinitiative.org.nz/reports-and-media/reports/a-matter-of-balance-regulating-safety/
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March 9, 2020 8:04am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Well, yeah, great, but the fact is that it is already the case, and has been for many years, that proposals for new regulation have to be subject to independent cost-benefit analysis, all of which is made available to Parliament and the public before regulations are made law. It hasn’t been effective, here or in other jurisdictions, in preventing the adoption of low-quality regulation.
  
  What’s supposed to be different this time?
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:06am
  - artemisia
    
    Well there are regulatory impact statements. I do read a few relating to a sector I am interested in. They seem to say way too often – maybe, but we don’t know. Doesn’t stop politicians bulldozing through regardless.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:05am
    - GJM
      
      I have read a number of regulatory impact statements and their cost benefits analysis in area I am interested in , such as the firearm confiscation and building regulations. Universally they are complete rubbish, written to support the chosen direction. Anyone who knows anything about the subject can see it a mile off, as they are not even subtle about it or competent enough to hide it.
      Another good idea given lip service by pollies and bureaucrats
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:16pm
      - artemisia
        
        Officials doing the RISs are under instruction. To be slightly fair they usually do say – no data, no research, calculator broken. Need to cover themselves but seem to make sure their ‘disclaimers’ are well buried on page 214.
        
        The Treasury should do better.
        
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        March 10, 2020 8:41am
  - doggone7
    
    What’s supposed to be different this time? Exactly.
    
    To suddenly pop up with this great solution is a joke. All the rules claimed to be hindering things haven’t got onto the books in the last two years. If they are bad now they were bad in 2012, 20113, 2014 and so on.
    
    Why weren’t they to rid of then? When were they all put on the books in the first place? Any chance National introduced them?
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:30am
    - artemisia
      
      RMA reform is core to a lot of changes. Last government tried but did not have the numbers. (And who voted it down?) Ms Collins has indicated there will be a Bill ready to go when National next lead a government.
      
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      March 9, 2020 11:07am
  - artemisia
    
    One different thing is the report from the Loopy Rules review carried out by the last government, but without enough time to implement. I read the review at the time but can’t recall detail any more. Quite probable the report is an input into policy, especially relating to Ms Collins RMA reform.
    
    I sat in on a local session of the review ( know, sad life!), make your hair curl. Recall a couple of oral submissions from owners who had spent many thousands to get projects of the ground – progress = zip.
    
    One was an owner with a too large home, trying to convert it to two smaller units. $12k spent, progress none. Gave up. Another had a section and was trying to build. $30k or more, can’t recall exact amount, progress = nil. Had not given up at that point.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:41am
- kowtow
  
  How queer , I seem to recall it was the Nats who tightened up on the non common sense H&S legislation ……….
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:11am
- pb
  
  Over-regulation is rampant. We have ceded control of our lives to incompetents, based on the “going forward” mantra. “Sophisticated regulation has always been the parent of confusion, and ever will be”. [Burke 1790 – The Sublime and Beautiful]
  
  The “art of government” is to make power gentle. We have made it ruthless, knowing it is witless.
  
  I feel that we are suffering under over-regulation, suffering the equivalent of capital punishment, upfront. Administered by the top down psychopaths. We are deemed guilty and are being bureaucratically punished in everyday tasks. Alternatively, cancel the ridiculous over-regulation, and get heavy on the penalties, after the crime has been committed. We have chosen mischievous sophist theories over experience.
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:29am
- brett68
  
  All this stupidity started with the last National government.
  
  Why?
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:46am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    No, it didn’t. Stupidly risk-averse, arse-covering regulation has been a feature of governments of all colours, overseas as well as in New Zealand, for many a year. It’s not confined to right or left. All politicians have to be sensitive to public opinion, and public opinion is usually idiotic in matters entailing risk perception.
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:33am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The small company that regularly cleaned our wood burner chimney every year went out of business because of the new requirement for scaffolding.
  
  Few homeowners could afford the cost to get scaffolding errected for a job that took 15 minutes tops. The results were that their employees lost their jobs, the company went under and numerous homeowners have houses that are less safe because a chimney fire is more likely.
  
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  March 9, 2020 5:28pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Cherry picker? Scissor lift?
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:11pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      That gets you onto the roof but doesn’t prevent you falling off. I think a reasonable solution would have been to require a rope and harness.
      
      The scaffolding requirement was over the top.
      
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      March 10, 2020 6:57am
cmm

Does anyone understand why the Coronavirus has hit Italy so hard (7000 cases), but neighbouring France and Germany only have 1000 cases each?

When it comes to deaths: Italy has 366, France 20 and Germany 0.

They all have more or less the same population size and smoking levels.

Just bad luck?
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March 9, 2020 8:07am
- All_on_Red
  
  Not sure if this is the link but there are many Chinese factories in Italy to avoid Tariffs.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:14am
  - artemisia
    
    And to label fashion items as Made in Italy. Many factories owned, operated and staffed by Chinese, workers often live and work in close proximity to each other and in the wider environment.
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:25am
    - Sacha
      
      In an earlier report I read that a number of Chinese had returned to Italy following their seasonal holidays and that the outbreak coincided with the incubation period . . . . . . . so everyone was caught unawares.
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:14am
      - NoCash
        
        That doesn’t make sense. As the Chinese workers in Italy likely returned to China for the Chinese New Year, so unlikely then to go back to Italy before the CNY, when the massive lockdown happened before the CNY.
        
        Anyway, according to the Italian authorities, the first two confirmed case were two Chinese tourists from Wuhan. Also, Italy was the first EU country to suspend flights to and from China, and impose travel bans.
        
        My take on other EU countries, they lag behind Italy but the protections seem similar if more drastic measures are not put in place soon.
        
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        March 9, 2020 10:30am
  - rangitoto
    
    I heard that an immigrant who had a fast food delivery job returned from an out of country visit and then ignored a request to self isolate. Then proceeded to spread the illness air and wide. I haven’t been able to verify the story thus far.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:20am
    - NoCash
      
      I’ve read that too, suggesting patient zero is a Pakistani working at a Chinese restaurant who was infected while away overseas ignored the order to self quarantine. However, it is unverified. According to Wikipedia, patient zero is officially still unknown.
      
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      March 9, 2020 11:08am
    - rangitoto
      
      I don’t know how legit this site is.
      
      https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/cronache/coronavirus-pakistano-infetto-anzich-isolarsi-consegna-cibo-1833840.html
      
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      March 9, 2020 12:23pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    It is also due to the areas concerned are tourist hot spots. Venice any time of year. Lombardy and Tuscany are gateways to the Italian Alps ski fields.
    
    Milan is also the finance capital of Italy in the north with significant industry and manufacturing
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:33am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wow, 133 dead in just one day.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/covid-19/411258/coronavirus-italy-death-toll-soars-amid-travel-ban
  
  I suspect the virus has had a few weeks’ extra time in general circulation in Italy than in France & Germany.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:15am
  - Swifty
    
    Eldest daughter has been planning and working for the last nine months towards her Year 13 European Art History Tour to Europe through her college and scheduled for July.
    
    Not looking good…..
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:27am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Likewise.
      
      My oldest is hopefully doing an Art History tour through France and Italy as well.
      
      I suspect in the face of what is happening in Europe right now that trip is history.
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:07am
      - Sacha
        
        Well, she can do it next year and in the meantime there are books, and the internet –
        
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        March 9, 2020 9:15am
      - Swifty
        
        MAGS?
        
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        March 9, 2020 9:26am
      - Swifty
        
        Unfortunately Sacha this is her last year at college, so there will not be a next year.
        
        I understand too that only about half of the pre-paid costs will be refunded so a double-blow.
        
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        March 9, 2020 9:46am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Likewise, a friend’s choir has a trip to Leipzig in June.
      No ones cancelling yet as the European summer will be happening, so it’s a bit of wait and see….
      Final fees needed by April apparently, but will there be insurance?
      
      Already DHB’s are refusing Insurance on conferences for staff.
      
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      March 9, 2020 11:00am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Italy has a short lead. Rest of Europe is only 2-3weeks behind. NZ maybe as much as 4 weeks, though I am not optimistic. Govt won’t truly wake up to how critical their response is until way way too late. They needed to start country wide quarantine lockdown already – stop the spread before it starts. Their slow supine response is dooming 10’s of thousands to unecessary death.
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:28am
    - hookerphil
      
      Yip, cut it off at the Bombay Hills.
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:17am
    - NoCash
      
      At least we are not as insane as the Australian govt, allowing the Melbourne F1 GP to go ahead, in doing so letting thousands of people in from Europe, the new epicenter of covid-19, especially Italy. Ferrari is in the lockdown zone but the team personnel have been granted permissions to fly out on Monday to Melbourne. Airports and airplanes are risky places in a pandemic already, adding the crowded paddock to the mix, what could possibly go wrong?
      
      Instead of mandatory isolation for visitors from Italy, the Oz govt will only conduct additional screening for visitors from Italy. How smart is that?
      
      If there is a major outbreak in Oz, will we or can will impose a travel ban…
      
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      March 9, 2020 10:47am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        If there is a major outbreak in Oz, same as everywhere else. We just can’t see it yet as takes weeks after infection to get life threateningly sick.
        
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        March 9, 2020 2:09pm
  - rockape
    
    Love the place but it is a bit of a shambles.
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:44am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Patient zero in Italy went to a hospital before they were testing. And then carried on with life as normal.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It could be genetic. The expression of the virus is 5x
  more biologically vigorous in some Asian ethnicities than others. There may be concentrations of the similar genes in other populations.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:15am
  - cmm
    
    Genetic, or just smoking/pollution levels?
    
    Chinese males (majority of deaths so far) are very prone to respiratory infections due to smoking (well over 50% are heavy smokers). Second place Korea is almost as high.
    
    It is difficult to tease these apart when there is such a large overlap.
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:30am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I have seen a paper showing clearly the COVID19 affects a particular gene which affects lungs. That was much more aggressive in Chinese than others.
      
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      March 9, 2020 8:37am
      - 453mm
        
        Can you link that paper? Genuinely interested, thanks.
        
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        March 9, 2020 9:16am
      - Michael NZ
        
        pls link, cheers.
        
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        March 9, 2020 11:02am
      - Pharmachick
        
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420302294#undfig1
        
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        March 9, 2020 11:23am
      - Pharmachick
        
        PS ACE2 is found on the X chromosome, which indicates sex differences could occur, and higher rates of ACE2 levels in Asians
        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0147-1
        
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        March 9, 2020 1:35pm
      - cmm
        
        Thanks for the links Pharma chick.
        
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        March 9, 2020 3:33pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Unfortunately I haven’t kept a copy of the paper and it’s not readily visible among my usual sources.
        
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        March 9, 2020 4:56pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @KevO’Brien 4:56 pm
        
        (1) S’Okay I gotcha on that – see my links
        
        (2) Try not to bullshit online please. Most especially with a very transparent “my usual sources, I lost it, the dog ate my breakfast, not readily available”. A quick google search for “nCOVID19 asian polymorphisms” will bring up BOTH articles I posted. Also as they’re in Science and Nature, they’re completely open access. IMHO you’ve just destroyed your integrity and reliability when it comes to statements like this.
        
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        March 9, 2020 5:29pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Jeez Pharmachick, that’s a bit of a harsh reproach to KevO’Brien.
        
        Remember he is 80 years old and not a Scientist.
        
        If he had seen the Nature article (published 24 Feb) 2 weeks ago, then I can well believe he might have lost track of where he came across it.
        
        I’m forever having to rack my brain trying to remember where I came across some information….
        
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        March 9, 2020 6:31pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Nope. Not having it.
        
        This COVID thing is dangerous enough without “I thought I heard, I think I saw” propagation online of [potential] misinformation.
        
        Even more so when asked to clarify, and the OP is obfuscating, when google (of all places) has the answers in under a 1sec search.
        
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        March 9, 2020 6:52pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      racist sexist ageist virus. It’s worse than Hitler™
      
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      March 9, 2020 2:11pm
  - projectman
    
    “The expression of the virus is 5x
    more biologically vigorous in some Asian ethnicities than others.”
    
    Reference please.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:46am
    - Pharmachick
      
      See my PS – the nature article published 2 weeks ago.
      Cheers
      
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      March 9, 2020 2:16pm
- Simon
  
  Access to Iran. Also Italy had different reporting standards.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  Would be useful if the shit MSM could give some detail , instead of raw figures . ie I think a large proportion are in old folk homes , like in the US.
  
  The MSM are actively contributing to the panic around this. And of course they benefit ,in their own death throws, from panic buying of their product.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:20am
  - Old White Loser
    
    Data from this web site https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    shows it is elderly who are dying as per these figures.
    
    Percentage of deaths by age group:
    90+ years old: 6% of deaths
    80 – 89 years old: 42% of deaths
    70 – 79 years old: 35% of deaths
    60 – 69 years old: 16% of deaths
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:56am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      so 0-59 =1%?
      
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      March 9, 2020 2:12pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        No kids under 10 have died. They have contracted but not died. If there is a silver lining to this horrid cloud, the little ones are it. This most likely indicates that the pleural effusion (lung leakage of fluid) seen in the deaths is likely due to over-stimulation of the immune system … little kids immune systems take until at least 12 years of age to mature, thats why they’re always getting colds etc… BUT in this case looks like the immune system can’t over-react to cause the lung involvement either. Also, my partner was speculating that ACE2 might have an ontogenetic (developmental) expression profile – he does what I do (but better).
        
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        March 9, 2020 3:08pm
    - cmm
      
      It won’t necessarily play out the same here, or in various other countries due to smoking rates etc.
      
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      March 9, 2020 3:23pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  While Italy and Germany aren’t neighbours, the latest outbreak in Italy ironically seems to have come from a German car parts factory.
  
  This from WaPo, which means it has about a 30% chance of being credible:
  
  “The epidemic ravaging northern Italy that’s prompted a massive lockdown affecting millions can be traced to an outbreak at a car parts manufacturer in Germany, according to a study by Italian virologists — findings that are likely to shatter assumptions that German authorities had successfully contained the first major cluster in Europe.”
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:26am
  - cmm
    
    Hair splitting.
    
    It’s less than 50km through Austria from Italy to Germany, so less than 20 minutes on a good road and less than an hour with a tank.
    
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    March 9, 2020 3:21pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      ‘less than an hour in a tank’, like it!
      
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      March 9, 2020 4:31pm
    - Colville
      
      is that in reverse gear in an Italian tank? 🙂
      
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      March 9, 2020 8:34pm
- Aunty
  
  This disease is particularly hard on the elderly. And Italy, like the rest of Europe, has an aged population with a lot of elderly in it. Far more than historic levels. The Italians are also very sociable and live in high-density communities, which gives this virus plenty of opportunities to spread among people. So the combination of the two, a lot of old people living close together and interacting with each other daily and in close proximity to each other does explain the high death rate we are seeing in Lombardy.
  
  The outlook is not looking good I’m afraid, until the quarantine measures and social distancing practices start to have an effect.
  
  The other possibility is that the virus has mutated in Italy and we now have a third strain of it and this strain is much more virulent, infectious and deadly than the other two. I hope for everyone’s sake this is not the case.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:29am
- notreadyet
  
  I read that an immigrant ( im not sure of the nationality so wont go into conjecture) was the first diagnosised with the virus and couldn’t afford to self isolate and continued to work at his job doing food delivery, pizza from memory. This is understood to be the root of the northern Italy infection centred around milan
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:30am
- KH
  
  Not quite answering your question but a stat from Italy is the “average’ person who dies from the is male and aged 81.
  81! Very indicative age about whats going on.
  (but don’t think if you are 30 you are impervious)
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:43am
- All_on_Red
  
  The other reason could be Italian Banks need a bigger bailout than the German or French ones…
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:54am
Maggie Pie

My partner just re-tweeted ….”Take a look at this. What an A-HOLE!”

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1236343402704392192
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March 9, 2020 8:08am
- Raphael
  
  Cenk is also having a melt down because the staff at The Young Turks are forming a union (whilst claiming for years about how Unions are the Future).
  
  He is overall not a nice man.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:51am
  - G152
    
    Ask him about the Armenian massacre and watch him melt down.
    As you say not a nice man
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:05am
- Two fish and a scoop thanks Cindy
  
  Do you not know who Cenk Uygur is???
  check out my man Dame PesosDame Pesos
  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7eWRnOTyqua812sDXGqiqw/videos
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:52am
- Nermal
  
  I love his meltdown in 2016 when he realises Trump has beaten Clinton. Not a nice man
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:29am
oldpark

What a victory for the Auckland Blues over the Hurricanes . Yes the stuff that makes legends .
24 -15 . Against Twelve Men . That score includes a Penalty Try . Thanks Referee ,you did your job .
Of course that is one way to make the cellar dwellers Auckland Blues look good .After Seven years of never beating a NZ francise. Once more Thanks Referee . Some of the dubious calls will make sure crowd support for NZs games will be sparse . Who the **** would even bother turning up .
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March 9, 2020 8:09am
- JimBobJoe
  
  I thought the Canes were stupid… I was there and am a Canes fan…
  But that ref got a roll reffing one team and not the other….the Stadium was very unhappy…
  Still Fifita yellow was the turning point and it was a stupid act… Canes could have won despite the ref
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:51am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Blaming the referee for getting the key decisions right against an ill-disciplined and spiteful Hurricanes side seems petulant.
  
  Your claim that the Blues haven’t beaten an NZ franchise for 7 years is nonsense. It’s not even their first win over an NZ franchise in 10 months – they turned over the Chiefs 23 – 8 on 18 May 2019, as well as the Highlanders 33-26 on 22 March 2019.
  
  The Hurricanes’ problems weren’t the fault of the referee. They need a good hard look in the mirror and, dare I say it, perhaps some of their fans do too.
  
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  March 9, 2020 12:36pm
mjw

Just wait two weeks and it won’t look so different
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March 9, 2020 8:11am
G152

Womens day yesterday.
So how’re they doing educating the muslim countries as to how women should be treated in this day and age.
????
For some reason when I look through news groups, online newspapers and Facebook for mention of this sacred duty the women libbers are doing and not a whisper.
Any-one suggest where this great crusade is being reported and where we mere white males might be able to assist ????
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March 9, 2020 8:11am
- cmm
  
  Forcing Western values onto other people is racist.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:08am
Yvette

Several media people have written of Shane Jones racist comments and Winston’s subsequent support of Shane, saying if is a recurrent theme to fire up their voting base – one adding “NZ First is the party you vote for if you really want to vote for Donald Trump but can’t because you’re a New Zealander.”

So although these media people seem to indicate Jones and Winston aren’t really racists, on the face of it they still are, and appealing to voters who are also racists, or lean that way – enough to vote for them, Jones and Winston hope.

If this is true, I feel this makes Shane and Winston even bigger aerosols than simple plain racists, because on the surface of it they are still racially damaging the Indian community, but are also attempting to dupe racist voters, or those who would vote on the issue of immigration constraint. They are treating those voters as pawns or numbers to edge New Zealand First over the Election 5% thresh-hold.

If I understand rightly from piecing together international comments on his beliefs and thought, Shane and Winston could reasonably expect Brenton Tarrant to vote for New Zealand First.
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March 9, 2020 8:11am
- Tall Man
  
  I think he’s more of an authoritarian “green” guy, just like the non male green mps and the idiot one that calls taxation “love”……
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:28am
  - oldfella
    
    We’ll never know because the COL decided to hide Tarrant’s writings and thoughts from us with the equivalent of some good old-fashioned – Nazi – book burning. But, to be fair, the COL only did it for our own good because they felt we were not responsible enough as adults to handle it. That Jacindy girl is sooo thoughtful.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:45am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Oldfella
      We know what his trigger in Europe was, he says so.
      That’s why they banned it, as they didn’t want it discussed.
      Assuming it was just him writing it.
      
      His choosing us as a venue may well have been Jacinda’s rubber stamping the NZ Police changing of the gun law rules to save money and make it easier for their processing.
      
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      March 9, 2020 11:09am
      - Tall Man
        
        100% agree with your second paragraph but the double whammy of slack processing of his application was just a bonus for the little shit.
        
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        March 9, 2020 1:03pm
    - bruceavon
      
      You can find his manifesto online in about a minute. I have read it when it happened, Tall Man is right. some of the unibomber capitalism and corporations are going to destroy the environment stuff. Mostly though the solution to most things for him is ban immigration.
      
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      March 9, 2020 2:36pm
- John Warren
  
  Interesting link in the writer’s mind. I’d love to vote for Donald, but can’t because I’m a NZer. Yet there’s more chance of me flying a saucer to Alpha Centauri than voting for NZ First.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:37am
- Nermal
  
  Yvette: “…aerosols…”
  Not sure if that’s intentional or spellcheck error but either way totally apt
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:33am
  - lemuzz
    
    Must keep this in mind if the Mods get out the black pen
    
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    March 9, 2020 12:02pm
  - Yvette
    
    Although spellcheck does cause me problems, “aerosols – arseholes who “spray and walk away” – was not one of them.
    But was “Nermal” one? :o)
    
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    March 9, 2020 12:12pm
Poppa

Am I alone in thinking that this virus panic is a little over the top?

Sure, a lot of people have died, but most have been elderly & may also have had pre-existing conditions.

The flu kills a lot of people every year but we don’t get into a panic about that, so why are we running around panic buying & almost afraid to go out anywhere?
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March 9, 2020 8:12am
- Misha Beattie
  
  Because the flu has a case fatality rate of 0.1 % in New Zealand. One in one thousand cases = 1 death. Early indications of the case fatality rate of this virus is that it is 2 percent – 1 in 50.
  
  Further, a significant number of people will require ICU care, overwhelming the health system.
  
  I hope that is helpful
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:10am
- MCos
  
  About 500 people die from the flu annually in NZ, which represents 0.2% of those who get it.
  About 4% of the population gets the flu.
  Less than 2% of those who get a vaccine, which about 30% of people do.
  
  There’s not yet a vaccine for Covid-19 & the death rate amongst known patients is way higher; almost exclusively old buggers.
  So it’s no ocean cruises for me! Seems like once there’s an outbreak on one of those ships they wait until everyone has got it while they mull things over.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:18am
  - alwyn
    
    “once there’s an outbreak on one of those ships they wait until everyone has got it”.
    That sounds just like New Zealand, doesn’t it?
    After all, in Maori lore the South Island was a canoe, which is a ship of sorts.
    When id our Government going to stop fluffing around and start trying to take precautions? Even if it is only a symbolic gesture the Christchurch Mayor should scrap the gatherings to commemorate the Mosque shootings. Otherwise we will just get the PM taking the chance she will spread the virus among all the people who attend. I know that if I was approached to get a hug after a long line of other people I would ward her off with my walking stick. Very useful thing for keeping people at a distance they are.
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:55am
  - NoCash
    
    Can I entice you with a free all inclusive 2 to 3 weeks extension to the tour? A special offer on all Princess line cruises.
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:26am
- Tall Man
  
  You are not alone.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:26am
- kowtow
  
  Seems that every year the panic mongering MSM treat us to headlines like “Flu season overwhelms health system” , so just like all the other moral panics they give legs to such as climate catastrophism , white male oppressionism , colonialism , and every other ism they push , I ‘d say this is yet another and like Y2K etc will soon be forgotten as they move on to another moral panic ……has anyone noticed how they’ve moved on from BLM . I recall TV3 “news” leading a broadcast with white cop shoots black man . That’s been consigned to the yesterdays Moral Outrage bin……
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:30am
  - Scott
    
    Kowtow – I do agree that the media have an interest in sensationalism and making things seem worse than they are. I do wonder whether coronavirus will be in that category?
    
    Is it just a strain of flu? Most of the people who die are elderly with other conditions. The death rate I have heard reported is somewhere between 1% and 3%.
    
    The problem is that the media so often prophesy’s the end of the world! Y2K was supposed to be a world changing event where planes fell out of the sky! It didn’t come to pass.
    
    Last year it was global warming and the young Congresswoman from America told us that the world was going to end in 12 years.
    
    Now it’s coronavirus. It makes it hard for the ordinary person to know what is the appropriate response? When everything on a scale of 1 to 10 is hyped up to 11, it’s hard to get a proper perspective.
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:01am
- Nermal
  
  You are not alone. A little research on “flu pandemic” reveals there’s one of these three or four times a century. Most of us can’t even remember the name of the last one in 2009 (it was swine flu, or H1N1)
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:37am
Swifty

If any of these people emigrated to New Zealand would Ardern say of them”They are us” too?

Australian Islamic Scholar Ismail Al-Wahwah: The Jews Exaggerate the Holocaust for Dirty Political Exploitation; Islam Will Conquer Rome and Moscow:

https://www.memri.org/tv/ismail-wahwah-hizb-tahrir-australia-imprisoned-jordan-holocaust-imposed-world-silence-israel-crimes-islam-victorious

Canadian Imam Younus Kathrada: All Candidates In Upcoming Elections Are Evil, Filthy Non-Muslims:

https://www.memri.org/reports/canadian-imam-younus-kathrada-all-candidates-upcoming-elections-are-evil-filthy-non-muslims

Imam Mohamad Joban of Redmond, WA: Allah Transformed Jews into Despicable Apes and Pigs for Disobeying Him; A Baby Born in Malaysia with a Tail Is Their Descendant:

https://www.memri.org/tv/indondesian-american-imam-mohamad-joban-allah-turned-jews—into-apes-disobeying

Taiseer Hussein of Hizb ut-Tahrir America: We Will Conquer Rome and Liberate India and Spain:

https://www.memri.org/tv/taiseer-hussein-hizb-ut-tahrir-america-conference-islamic-nation-establish-caliphate-conquer-rome

Australian Activist Nassma Bader At Hizb-ut-Tahrir Event in Sydney: We Will Continue to Resist Until Islamic Caliphate Is Established and Islam Has Spread Globally:

https://www.memri.org/tv/australian-academic-nassma-bader-hizb-ut-tahrir-resist-until-islamic-caliphate-global-victory-coming

NY Cleric Muhammad Ibn Muneer: Muslims Should Hate Non-Muslims, Can Only Maintain Relations With Them To Call Them To Islam

https://www.memri.org/reports/ny-cleric-muhammad-ibn-muneer-muslims-should-hate-non-muslims-can-only-maintain-relations

Australian Hizb-ut-Tahrir Activist Wassim Doureihi: “Tolerant” Westerners Don’t Really Accept Us Because They Don’t Accept Aspects of Islam like Shari’a; We Don’t Want to Be Accepted Anyway:

https://www.memri.org/tv/australian-hizb-ut-tahrir-activist-wassim-doureihi

New York Cleric Mufti Ibn Muneer: Circumcision Teaches Children That One Must Be Willing to Spill Some Blood for Allah’s Shari’a:

https://www.memri.org/tv/new-york-cleric-mufti-ibn-muneer-circumcision-teach-children-willing-spill-blood-for-allahs-sharia

Detroit Imam Bassem Al-Sheraa: Wife-Beating Serves to Remind Her That She Misbehaved:

https://www.memri.org/tv/detroit-imam-bassem-sheraa-wife-beating-dental-twig-painless-admonish-reminder-misbehave

Oh, but this one’s already here!

New Zealand Cleric Mohammad Anwar Sahib Al-Madani: Wife Is Obligated to Obey Husband’s Call to Intimacy; She Would Not Fulfill His Rights Even If She Licked Pus off His Body:

https://www.memri.org/tv/new-zealand-cleric-mohammad-anwar-sahib-madani-misogynistic-statements-lick-puss-off-husband-intimacy-right

[Mod: Not so many links in a single post please]
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March 9, 2020 8:15am
- SB 2
  
  Swifty, this piece from your Meri link undermines its credibility,
  
  Russian Biologist and Former U.N. Expert Igor Nikulin: Coronavirus Is a Biological Weapon Used by Global Government to Reduce the World’s Population by 90%
  
  ,https://www.memri.org/tv/russian-biologist-igor-nikulin-coronavirus-conspiracy-global-government-decimate-population
  
  LOL
  
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  March 9, 2020 12:07pm
  - Swifty
    
    Ugh. I wondered whether you might pop out and embarrass yourself again.
    
    Are you really that stupid?
    
    MEMRI (the Middle Eastern Media Research Institute) “is a nonprofit press monitoring and analysis organization with headquarters in Washington, D.C. MEMRI publishes and distributes free English language translations of Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Pashto, and Turkish media reports.[2]
    
    MEMRI states that its goal is to “bridge the language gap between the Middle East and the West.” ”
    
    IT IS PRECISELY because this person is saying coronavirus ‘is a vast global (read Jewish) conspiracy’ that they have put it up on their website.
    
    MEMRI’s credibility is not diminished by this, it is ENHANCED.
    
    Good god man, do you purposely come here each day to embarrass yourself?
    
    I would say the only person who’s credibility has been undermined is you – except you haven’t got any credibility to begin with.
    
    LOL!
    
    What an egg.
    
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    March 9, 2020 1:23pm
    - SB 2
      
      Try this,
      
      Middle East Media Research Institute
      
      “The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) is a nonprofit press monitoring and analysis organization with headquarters in Washington, D.C. MEMRI publishes and distributes free English language translations of Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Pashto, and Turkish media reports.[2]
      
      MEMRI states that its goal is to “bridge the language gap between the Middle East and the West.”
      
      Critics charge that despite portraying itself as neutral,[3] it aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light through the production and dissemination of incomplete or inaccurate translations and by selectively translating views of extremists while deemphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[4] It has also been accused of being subtly biased in favour of Israel.[5]…”
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute
      
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      March 9, 2020 3:06pm
      - Swifty
        
        Prove the translations are inaccurate or GTFO.
        
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        March 9, 2020 4:52pm
      - Swifty
        
        Behold! The measly troll who willfully overlooks the disgraceful comments from leaders of the Islamic communities in Canada, the US, Aussie and New Zealand and attempts to divert the debate to shooting the messenger.
        
        What dishonesty.
        
        What a lack of integrity.
        
        How shameful.
        
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        March 9, 2020 5:10pm
RW Capitalist

SLG on the am show
They will,basically, set up a talk fest to discuss what to do to support business’, in order to keep employees.
REALLY????? another “working group”, it took the last lot over a year to come up with……NOTHING.
My suggestion…….forgive past (up to today) oweings of tax (all tax) to businesses with less than 10 employees.
They are the one’s most likely to go under taking massive numbers of employees with them.
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March 9, 2020 8:17am
- Tall Man
  
  You are neglecting the “need” for ardern photo ops….. That tilty head needs coverage in election year.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:25am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Ardern said, at the point of a community outbreak, there would be notices issued to reduce large public gatherings. (RNZ)….
    
    So with her fingers crossed no such announcement will be made before 16 March. After which time COVID-19 will become a very serious population limiting measure.
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:39am
- Tricati
  
  Her response was telling when asked if she would approach Key or English who had to deal with GFC and EQ’s in Christchurch & Kaikora for guidance on how to stimulate and maintain businesses during this current event. She ignored the question and said they have been looking at what IRD did for Havelock North businesses during the water issues up there. Say’s a lot about her understanding of the scale and likely consequences of the current virus, and the arrogance of Labour not to seek advice from those that have ‘done it’.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:44am
  - yossarian
    
    The irony is that I’m sure Key and English would only be too happy to help…because they love their country.
    
    Jacinda, I’m not so sure
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:20am
    - Tall Man
      
      She loves what the country can do for her …. apologies to JFK’s speech writers.
      
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      March 9, 2020 1:05pm
Simon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Jami-lee Ross on CCP owning National.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20200305_054225000/ross-jami-lee

Looks like at least one CCP NZ cell will be rolled up by the SFO.
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March 9, 2020 8:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Labour will just have to make do with lawnmowing.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:20am
- Tall Man
  
  What a load of rubbish.
  
  If a pathetic loser like him is your source you are really scraping the barrel.
  
  I’ll ask again, what legislation would you say has been “effected” due to CCP money? What impact would $150,000 have when the National Party has a fund around the $5 million mark and 50 mps earning an additional $10 million.
  
  The only party that would be “attuned” to that level of bribery would be “what’s in it for wynston”.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:24am
Captain Mainwaring

We often enjoy a nice roast pork but has anyone else noticed the difference in the texture of the skin in recent times?
To make good crackling you need to score the skin. This wasn’t previously a problem but recently the skin has become harder and more rubbery to the point where I sharpened the knife so it was like a razor blade and still it becomes as blunt as a spoon before it can penetrate this unyielding skin.
Is it due to the young pigs being force-fed to grow so quickly or are the Muslims and Jews at work to try to turn me off pork?
Has anyone else been bothered by this?
Just asking.
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March 9, 2020 8:30am
- cmm
  
  Frozen or fresh? Does that make a different.
  
  Isn’t a lot of pork now imported from Canada? Maybe Canukistani pork is tougher.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:33am
  - rouppe
    
    I thought it was China. I remember a fuss about bringing in swine flu…
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It has taken me decades to master a decent crackling,
  so I reckon I wasn’t scoring the skin properly in the past.
  (or maybe it’s the new oven)
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:35am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Fresh, and labelled ‘New Zealand Pork’.
    I’ve never had trouble with crackling in the past.
    
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    March 9, 2020 8:46am
    - rouppe
      
      Ask the butcher.
      
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      March 9, 2020 8:50am
    - hullkiwi
      
      From past experience something labelled “New Zealand” pork, does not mean that the origin of the product is New Zealand. What you’ll find is the product has been sourced from abroad, but packaged in NZ.
      
      This is why consumer groups and local producer groups push for better labeling regimes (esp. for food), but which our food producers (most of which are foreign owned and benefit from confusing labelling) resist and push against.
      
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      March 9, 2020 10:44am
- Swifty
  
  Captain, buy yourself one just for this job:
  
  https://nzsafetyblackwoods.co.nz/en/retractable-stanley-craft-knife-each–1174178?gclid=CjwKCAiAzJLzBRAZEiwAmZb0al5OXuLkWNVpbD-libB_rGicfJlQUgegRKR54b3ZgcHcoDusz9op0RoCdyQQAvD_BwE&gclid=CjwKCAiAzJLzBRAZEiwAmZb0al5OXuLkWNVpbD-libB_rGicfJlQUgegRKR54b3ZgcHcoDusz9op0RoCdyQQAvD_BwE
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:39am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Tried Stanley knife and craft knife. Skin is too tough.
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:06am
    - Swifty
      
      Wow – must be tough pigs out your way.
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:28am
      - Tall Man
        
        “Red Squad Blue Squad” maybe 🙂
        
        6 0
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        March 9, 2020 10:00am
    - Tall Man
      
      We’ve got “sensitive mod” on duty
      
      17 3
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      March 9, 2020 9:34am
      - Batman
        
        You attack the Mods and you’ll get deleted. That’s the deal.
        
        It’s a great way to get your high comment count down.
        
        7 19
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        March 9, 2020 9:45am
      - Tall Man
        
        So no justification for deleting my comment just a swipe at me.
        
        Come on Batman, calling someone a pussy in jest is hardly worthy of deletion and if someone can’t take a little ribbing then maybe they shouldn’t be a mod 😉
        
        I don’t understand the “high comment count” but I do understand my high deletion rate ….
        
        14 2
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        March 9, 2020 9:59am
      - sooty
        
        Can we have the mods identified such as mod 1 .. [ No]
        
        a lot of my posts just disappear into the ether,[] where do they go?
        
        [Into a hole because a moderator thinks that’s the right place]
        
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        March 9, 2020 12:48pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Sorry Sooty, just reported you in error and no, I wasn’t trying to sweep you under the carpet 🙂
        
        There is a link at the bottom to the “editor”. Not sure if that is the right place but I have sent a couple of emails without a single response so either it’s a dead address or he isn’t interested in any comments about moderation, good or bad.
        
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        March 9, 2020 4:41pm
    - 453mm
      
      This should do the trick.
      
      https://www.stihl.co.nz/STIHL-Products/Chainsaws/Cordless-Chainsaw/273181-1615/c-b-ohne-akku-ohne-ladegeraet.aspx
      
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      March 9, 2020 10:21am
- Sideoiler
  
  Try scoring it with a craft knife (box cutter) I use the type with a break off blade.
  A light coating of olive oil and grind some rock salt over the skin, let sit at room temp for a couple of hours before putting into the oven.
  Should produce good crackling.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:45am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    A chain saw usually does the trick.
    
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    March 9, 2020 6:44pm
- notreadyet
  
  While “pork products” are imported from a large number of countries I think you will find most of the roasts and chops are NZ grown product.
  For best crackling results yes score the skin, not easy and sometimes a scalpel of the likes gives the best results and then pour boiling water out of kettle over the skin before putting in the oven ( idea courtesy of one better known foodie ladies), and sometimes I’ve either taken the skin off and given it a burst under the grill while resting and cutting the roast, sure to rise crackling
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:51am
- tf78
  
  I use a razor blade on the pork just like when doing the Christmas ham – works pretty well.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:53am
- pussycat
  
  A stanley knife for scoring works best.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:25am
- Misha Beattie
  
  I have not noticed. I generally buy free range pork bellies.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:37am
- oldfella
  
  I suspect the pigs have been compromised by vegan activists, the world’s most admired, and bravest ‘freedom fighters’.
  The aim is to make swine flesh taste so bad people will be driven to the crap vegan meat substitutes on the market at which stage humanity will die off from all the additives in those foods. Leaving the earth clean and green. Works for me as a theory.
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:55am
- KevO'Brien
  
  My wife does the crackling easy and well. She uses an extra sharp knife to make the cuts and then pours boiling water over the roast. The water helps open the cuts. That is further enhanced by putting salt on them too.
  Enjoy.
  
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  March 9, 2020 5:04pm
Maggy Wassilieff

South Korea looks to be getting on top of its coronavirus outbreak….
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/03/good-sign-south-korea-may-be-getting-control-of-coronavirus-is-this-the-future/

They’ve used drive-through testing stations and phone tracking of contacts.
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March 9, 2020 8:32am
- Simon
  
  One good outcome over the overblown corona virus hysterics is that the winter flu rates in NZ will be much lower than normal.
  
  Coronavirus dividend = improved general health of population.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:39am
- Misha Beattie
  
  Like Japan, Korea has a tight social hierarchy where people generally do what they are told. Iran and Italy, not so much.
  
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  March 9, 2020 8:41am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    If Japan were Italy, the country would explode.
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:14am
Happychappy

And Jacinda,Grant and idiot Health Minister David Clark think there plan that is at stage three of the three they talked up in there three that they are relying on will stop the Coronavirus in its tracks I don’t think so. It’s more pure luck than expertise and having 43 hospital staff in isolation proves that so let wait to the cold weather to hit before praising NZ dismal effort so far.
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March 9, 2020 8:36am
- Happychappy
  
  What the Government has in store to protect the economy, and in this Jacinda points out the seafood industry is in trouble so I would like to know whether NZ First has any say in this mater after the revelation yesterday from a former NZ First bag man on the allegations of donations from the fisheries sector to the NZ First Foundation.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/03/coronavirus-what-the-govt-has-in-store-to-protect-the-economy.html
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:06am
Misha Beattie

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-italy-to-tell-people-not-to-enter-or-leave-regions-worst-hit-by-outbreak-11952487

It will be fascinating to see how this quarantine pans out. Most Italians lack a calm demeanor. According to this article you have hundreds of panicked people leaving the red zone area before it is enforced. Which could make things worse.
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March 9, 2020 8:40am
- Michael NZ
  
  Misha
  same as China 5 million there.
  
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  March 9, 2020 11:23am
  - NoCash
    
    Nope, the 5 million supposedly left Wahun for holiday during the silent outbreak period but long before the lockdown. That said, there were many people trying to beat the lockdown too after it was announced as expected, but nowhere near 5 mil.
    
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    March 9, 2020 3:42pm
Kabull

An illustration of where the climate change rort is going. The Panama Canal Authority has introduced a ‘Fresh Water Charge’ to help the Panama Canal cope with climate change which will cost the shipping industry up to US$370 million a year. The charge will be US$10,000 on every vessel over 125ft (38 m) in length, ostensibly to cover the cost of the volume of fresh water being taken from Gatun Lake when a ship transits the canal’s locks. I don’t understand how charging ship operators will ‘save the water’ because ships must continue to use the Canal – and if they divert to another route, the Canal Authority revenue will fall, no doubt leading to an increase in standard transit charges. This, together with extra fuel costs due to new sulphur emissions rules that started in January, is going to impact severely on international shipping. It has been estimated at least $1 trillion of investment in new fuel technology is needed to enable the shipping industry to meet U.N. targets for cuts in carbon emissions by 2050.

All this will inevitably lead to increased costs for ordinary consumers, like us. It is just the leading edge of the wave of new climate-related costs we will be faced with.

https://gcaptain.com/shipping-industry-faces-370-million-hit-from-panama-canal-freshwater-charge/
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March 9, 2020 8:41am
- Tall Man
  
  But, with a bigger trough there’s more opportunity to get a bit in ya pocket……
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:18am
- SB 2
  
  Kabull, whats missing is the fact that the freshwater surcharge is a result of pro longed drought ( 20% below normal) due to climate change ,
  
  https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/01/14/business/panama-canal-reduces-slots-ships-due-droughts-levies-freshwater-charge/#.XmV8Hy17GS4
  
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  March 9, 2020 12:17pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Bollocks. The drought is due to changing weather, as in New Zealand. Not enough time has passed to attribute anything to “Climate” change.
    
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    March 9, 2020 6:46pm
Simon

“Coronavirus: Hospitals at ‘breaking point’ amid outbreak, union warns”

Geez more hysterics. Its constant.

Socialist health will not collapse until 500 cases not 5.
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March 9, 2020 8:45am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Simon, as I posted in the earlier thread this morning, Waitemata DHB has put 43 medical and nursing staff on self-isolation for 14 days. They came into contact with a woman suspected of having the coronavirus. That’s a significant chunk of key, front-line staff taken out of the equation for 14 days. It’s only going to take a couple of cases like that, and our hospitals will be under genuine pressure.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:42am
- Nermal
  
  Just come out of hospital. If they were at breaking point they were hiding it very well
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:41am
Yvette

End shame
Not fair to punish me for the opinions of others: Jacinda Ardern talks to Indian Weekender interviewer Sandeep Singh – the prime minister has her harshest words yet for Shane Jones over his comments about Indian students.

I do think actually me standing up and saying what I think they’re saying is bad for New Zealand, that actually, I think matters. I don’t want to trivialise that, but equally, my message to voters is this: in election year, the power now sits with you. You determine who is able to form governments and you have it within your power to decide what you make of those remarks as well. – Ardern

So Jacinda is saying we have the voting power to sort out what she won’t attempt to resolve anytime before we ourselves can.
Just don’t be mean to me in doing it – “I would consider that to not be fair, that I’d be punished for the opinions of others, which I personally strongly disagree with.”

Of course, we need some journalist to ask Jacinda now, “If she is recommending that we vote in such a way to solve the shame of Shane, will she support her recommendation by declaring she will not work again with NZ First as a Coalition partner, while Shane is in their caucus?

A second coalition agreement would be with Winston again, of course, or if he stands down, she would be likely partnering with their highly promoted champion, Shane Jones.
If we are to vote against him, will she vow not to undo that?

And of course to outlaw Shane would fix the aim of the Provincial Fund to appeal to Northlanders to vote Shane into their electorate seat. A report [1] that –the Government has overspent in Northland, so needed to ‘even things out’ in Southland … Mr Hitchell withdrew his application but says officials tried to get him to rush it through, filled out the form for him and told him to ask for more money because they’d pumped too much into Northland – does suggest the Provincial Fund is simply pork barrel politics or perhaps straightforward corruption – note: Shane’s simple remonstration that Forestry people had not, he said, reciprocated his support!

If we have the power to vote out Shane, will Jacinda do the same.

[1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/southland-businesses-accuse-government-playing-favourites-provincial-growth-fund
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March 9, 2020 8:46am
- alloytoo
  
  Ardern is effectively admitting that her government is not fit for purpose. If NZ First aren’t fit for purpose tomorrow, what makes then FFP today.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:16am
- Tall Man
  
  She’s useless and dishonest.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:17am
- John Warren
  
  It is the most pathetic response possible. What a piss-weak PM she is.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:43am
- Nickc2
  
  She should have said that it will be up to voters to decide and I am on my way today to ask the GG to dissolve Parliament immediately and we will go to the Poles early next month.
  However, she doesn’t have the courage to do it.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:48am
  - Yvette
    
    Nickc2, or her next logic call should be: rule out Shane herself in any post-Election coalition negotiations.
    
    Jacinda recommends we should ourselves vote Shane out in the next Election, so will she promise that it he survives, she will not negotiate a coalition with him in it?
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:16am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      What would happen to the old codgers if National and Labour both ruled out working with NZ1st?
      
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      March 9, 2020 6:48pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So she is saying that she can’t do anything about the matter.
  
  Leadership skills = ZERO.
  
  This woman is not the person I want at the helm as our little country sails through stormy waters.
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:39am
  - Nickc2
    
    Forget the stormy waters Maggy. Calm-waters-n-all.
    Cheers.
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:41am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Hey Cinders,,,
  
  “I would consider that to not be fair, that I’d be punished for the opinions of others, which I personally strongly disagree with.”
  
  That’s what you did to licensed firearms owners. You vacuous potatohead.
  
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  March 9, 2020 2:41pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    vacuous potatohead. – At least you are polite. I get into trouble when I describe some politicians.
    
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    March 9, 2020 6:48pm
MCos

Did I heard Simon Bridges on Morning Report say that saw horses need to be signed off by an engineer?
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March 9, 2020 8:53am
- Igotta Numbum
  
  Another questionable practice was needing to have a newly-built saw horse signed off with an engineer’s certificate.
  
  “That’s what I’ve been told by a number of builders. We can’t find an actual regulation that backs that up, but it seems to be a matter of practice by WorkSafe inspectors.”
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:04am
  - cmm
    
    It is the same with any laws and regulations. Those with the duty to apply them essentially set up their own definitions of the regulations to avoid both confusion and people coming back to say they were sloppy.
    
    A classic case of this is the way the cops define “breaking and entry”. To most of us, breaking and entry sounds like the criminal broke a window or a lock etc and forced the door open gained access to a building.
    
    However, the definition for “breaking” the cops use is different. If the criminal forced entry in any way then that is breaking. If a door was open and the crim nudged it open another centimetre, or moved a box out of the way, then that is “breaking”.
    
    I suspect Worksafe does the same. A saw horse is, loosely, “engineering equipment” that must bear a certain amount of weight and have a certain amount of stability to be safe. Need an engineer to test/sign off…. however ridiculous that sounds.
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:21am
    - MCos
      
      I worked on a building site for five months a few years ago. My mate, the builder, had a whole lot of saw horses he’d obviously made himself. We had all sorts of inspectors checking scaffolding and this and that.
      Nobody ever looked twice at his saw horses.
      There’s plenty of other stuff that’s supposed to be certified every six months, or whatever, that nobody looked at too. So if some inspector wanted to see engineer’s certificates for saw horses they must have looked might dangerous.
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:45am
      - ISeeRed
        
        Or the inspector was being a dick because he could? The public sector does tend to attract those who love to exert power and control over others.
        
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        March 9, 2020 11:17am
      - sooty
        
        If they ain’t clever enough to be building inspectors, they become parking meter wardens!
        
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        March 9, 2020 4:02pm
    - Nookin
      
      Cmm
      
      The courts defined “breaking”, not the cops. If you are talking about burglary (previously “breaking and entering”) then the definition has changed and now involves “unlawful entry”.
      
      Breaking and entering, as a term, is still used in the context of home invasion and if that happens, are you really going to ping the police because a bunch of home invaders only had to push an unlatched door instead of having to turn the the handle?
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:56am
    - peterwn
      
      It is more complicated than that.
      To start with ‘breaking and entering’ is not in the Crimes Act. It is ‘burglary’ and the meaning of ‘burglary’ is governed both by the surrounding words in the Act and what various judges have ruled it to mean. It could include a male entering a female restroom with the intention of installing a camera in a cubicle (I cannot remember the outcome).
      If there is a new law or regulation, the enforcer (eg a OSH inspector) may need to interpret it and may need assistance from a superior or OSH’s office solicitor. If it is a prosecution then the judge would interpret it. Alternatively a person or organisation could make representations to the Chief Executive or seek judicial review of the decision. Granted an individual who thinks a decision or interpretation is wrong may just abide by it rather than fighting it.
      OK, a cost-benefit may not have been done for scaffolding and other ‘health and safety’ rules, but this begs the question of how do you do a cost-benefit for such things. For example, what value do you put on a human life? One million dollars? But if the person survives, has a low quality of life, needs care and is unable to support or engage with family, would this be two million dollars? An employer also bears significant costs for any more than minor industrial accident. If a fatality, the Police would shut down the work place for investigation which costs the employer and the employer would bear other costs which mount up. Hence a cost benefit for scaffolding could well show it is justified.
      A construction firm went out of business because it was burdened by the cumulative cost of health and safety failures. The owner when interviewed would not comment – a comment would have been embarrassing or worse.
      
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      March 9, 2020 10:04am
      - Ian Boag
        
        For example, what value do you put on a human life? One million dollars?
        
        The Transport people face this one all this time with road improvements and crashes and sruff. I think the current number is about $4m.
        
        https://www.transport.govt.nz/mot-resources/road-safety-resources/roadcrashstatistics/social-cost-of-road-crashes-and-injuries/
        
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        March 9, 2020 6:03pm
    - kowtow
      
      Break and enter is an American affectation.
      
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      March 9, 2020 10:42am
  - MCos
    
    Someone’s talking bullshit.
    
    First of all we can rule out the politician.
    
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    March 9, 2020 9:25am
    - sooty
      
      Yer, right!
      
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      March 9, 2020 9:50am
  - 453mm
    
    If I may play devil’s advocate….
    
    Since we as taxpayers will foot the ACC bill if some dodgy tradie makes a saw-horse that’s not fit for purpose, then we as taxpayers have the right to be sure that saw-horses are in fact fit for purpose.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:35am
    - Kleva Kiwi
      
      Therefore the question is: is it more expensive to pay for the few ACC bills, or the compliance costs.
      
      Answer: Compliance cost is greater
      
      I work in the construction industry, and compliance costs make up a significant % of overheads. And people wonder why construction is so expensive in NZ…
      
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      March 9, 2020 12:28pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Just get the appropriate insurance cover in place and move on.
        
        We have had numerous clients smacked with notices of prosecution for the prosecution to be dropped before the court date leaving substantial legal costs.
        
        My understanding is that unless we do change the government this year more health and safety provisions are on the way. In order to combat the rise of self scaffolding they are also looking at tighter certifications for erectors…….
        
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        March 9, 2020 1:10pm
      - cmm
        
        It’s worse than that.
        
        Due to the massive increases in scaffolding costs many home owners would rather chance it up their own dodgy ladders painting their house than call in the professionals.
        
        Net result: more people falling off ladders.
        
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        March 9, 2020 2:58pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Cmm, had a client in early his 70’s build the scaffolding out of timber for the painters.
        
        Quote was over $10k so he built it for $3000 and then onsold the timber when done.
        
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        March 9, 2020 5:37pm
    - Tall Man
      
      It comes down to the height and accessibility …. plus number of cones.
      
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      March 9, 2020 12:54pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        oh yes the cones, don’t forget the cones, those fucking cones . . .
        
        I was in Adelaide last month, a city about the same size as Auckland with free public transport in two rings around the city and the inner city, but, not one orange cone was seen anywhere, narry the one!
        
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        March 9, 2020 5:09pm
Tony Stuart

I heard a radio commercial several times this morning, “brought to you by the Ministry of Health”, urging people who sneeze to do so into the crook of their elbow. Elsewhere, people are recommending using an elbow-bump as a greeting, rather than a hug or a handshake.

Don’t the two contradict one another?
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March 9, 2020 9:45am
- cmm
  
  The Chinese foot bump is surely better than an elbow bump.
  
  Bumping elbow requires you to get your faces far closer than bumping feet.
  
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  March 9, 2020 9:55am
  - projectman
    
    If you’re going to do a bump of some sort, turning round and doing a bum bump sounds the safest.
    
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    March 9, 2020 10:59am
  - oldfella
    
    I just saw a rugby player on TV grab an opponent’s testicles. Is a ‘balls-bump’ okay as a corona-safe greeting? Just asking for a friend…
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:03am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      I think Trump’s “Grab em by the Pussy” has at last come to age….. I am not aware of any corona virus being transmitted during a “Pussy Grab”.
      
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      March 9, 2020 6:52pm
      - Nickc2
        
        How about Crabs?
        
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        March 9, 2020 9:51pm
  - MCos
    
    About twenty years ago my son’s mate had a holiday Job at the Intercontinental Hotel in Wellington. He was in a lift and Janet Jackson walked in.
    Their eyes met. Nobody spoke.
    He gave her an inverted nod of the head.
    She responded in kind.
    They went on their separate ways.
    
    Imagine if he’d tried to kick her feet from under her.
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:04am
  - DeepBlue
    
    The foot shake is quite fun.
    
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    March 9, 2020 11:24am
  - Tall Man
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lm76UTmlDg
    
    Dean Martin nailed it 🙂
    
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    March 9, 2020 12:53pm
- MCos
  
  I don’t know, but I saw Mike Pence on TV elbow bumping some bloke so that’s good enough for me.
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:49am
  - Tall Man
    
    Like this?
    
    https://www.tmz.com/2017/12/15/muay-thai-fighter-sufferes-dented-forehead-after-brutal-elbow/
    
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    March 9, 2020 12:45pm
- NoCash
  
  The protocol is right elbow for bumping, left elbow for coughing.
  
  Oh wait… maybe it is the another way round…
  
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  March 9, 2020 11:46am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Perhaps folks running our Public Service will now start to realise why some of us do not want to partake of a powhiri every time we start a meeting or a gathering.
  
  Unhygienic modes of greeting need to be consigned to a cultural waste-bin.
  
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  March 9, 2020 1:15pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Yup all sorts of barbaric practices have been put on hold. Maybe Corona has some silver linings.
    
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    March 9, 2020 6:54pm
Kabull

Reading a book at the moment that has a passage that sums up what is wrong with this modern world. The story itself is rather non-descript, but the author has it right with this:

He had a term for people like this: temporal provincials – people who were ignorant of the past, and proud of it.

Temporal provincials were convinced that the present was the only time that mattered, and that anything that had occurred earlier could be safely ignored. The modern world was compelling and new, and the past had no bearing on it. Studying history was as pointless as learning Morse code, or how to drive a horse-drawn wagon. And the medieval period … was so obviously irrelevant as to be beneath consideration.

Yet the truth was that the modern world was invented in the Middle Ages. Everything from the legal system, to nation-states, to reliance on technology, to the concept of romantic love had first been established in medieval times. These stockbrokers [the people being spoken about in the story] owed the very notion of a market economy to the Middle Ages. And if they didn’t know that, then they didn’t know the basic facts of who they were. Why they did what they did. Where they had come from.

… if you didn’t know history, you didn’t know anything. You were a leaf that didn’t know it was part of a tree.

(From ‘Timeline’ by Michael Crichton.)

I don’t think I’ve ever come across a more insightful summary of what’s wrong with today’s society. And it is clear that the great majority of young people (and I don’t just mean teenagers) are being – or have been – taught that history doesn’t matter, and it is in any case racist, sexist, colonialist, and any other ‘-ist’ you choose to name. Not to mention the historical revision going on in this and other (particularly Western) countries. Regrettably, I doubt we will see any change in the current direction until the rise of a new generation of youngsters who are willing to question the ‘truth’ that is pushed at them. Or until the western world has been subsumed into another culture – as has happened before, but which is invisible if history is not being taught.
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March 9, 2020 9:58am
- oldfella
  
  Don’t tell a Muslim the Middle Ages are not relevant. A lot of them still live there, and would like the rest of us to join them.
  
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  March 9, 2020 11:06am
- Ruahine
  
  In New Zealand we are being subsumed into a Stone Age culture.
  
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  March 9, 2020 11:13am
  - kowtow
    
    Notice how many media outlets start a broadcast with a Maori greeting and insist on calling NZ ‘Aotearoa”.
    
    Iwification by stealth.
    
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    March 9, 2020 1:26pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes and when I phone a company and some Sheila on the other end answers with Morena or similar (not sure of the spelling).
      Geez, it gets up my nose.
      
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      March 9, 2020 2:11pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I always say I don’t speak French and do some signing involving a single finger, two fingers or the Auckland driver out the window shaking a can of beer greeting . . .
        
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        March 9, 2020 5:11pm
- kowtow
  
  Andrew Roberts in his biography of Churchill makes the point that Churchill’s wartime speeches , which referenced Elizabethan and Napoleonic era victories,resonated with the people for the very reason that they were familiar with them as they were taught history in schools back then.
  
  Today?
  
  Twitteratti influencers and they’re being paid for their content……..
  
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  March 9, 2020 12:46pm
- pb
  
  At the moment there is a concerted effort to break the societal pact we have, the real societal contract. Rousseau was a cad. We have an obligation with the dead, with the living, and with the unborn. Fools are in love with a sneaky theory, which has been proven again and again not to work. We need heed hard headed experience, not pretty theories. The slavemasters compel the gullible to throw away our pact with the past on the bonfires of revolution for empty promises.
  
  Medieval Europe was in many ways the peak. Distributism, charity, maximum subsidarity, tradesmen guilds. Check out the Reductions in Paraguay, they were so successful that the oligarchs of the day, attacked and destroyed them for the threat they posed to the world order being constructed. There were many effective building blocks of societies. They were destroyed by too many chasing the love of mammon. Banks swept through Europe and dragged its subjugated people into war after war on debt. The benedictines dragged Europe from the mud with their ethic: “ora et labora”. The Medici’s (Christian Italian Banking Empire) began the rot, which has accelerated ever since. They bent too many rules, and opened the gates to hell. It would be a good thing to slam them shut again.
  
  Debt is a root problem. Once the banks eventually fall (could be soon), we need to let them burn, and eliminate state sponsored debt. An unfair arrangement where the bank does not share the risk. Simple interest on a limited time frame. No more compounding rubbish. Most people pay for their house three or four times, even on these low interest loans.
  
  Until the left and corporate communists start burning books, all this history is still there. It is even more compelling, as it is forbidden history. If the globalists could, they would burn the books. But their empire is falling. And the truth is powerful.
  
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  March 9, 2020 7:47pm
- doggone7
  
  If it’s good enough for Donald Trump to not know and respect history surely it’s good for others.
  
  As far as a new generation of youngsters rising who are willing to question the ‘truth’ that is pushed at them, how does that go with the whole Trump thing?
  
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  March 9, 2020 10:17pm
Misha Beattie

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/120103409/fonterra-genesis-energy-and-z-will-go-to-trial-for-failing-to-protect-against-effects-of-climate-change

So we have a litigious Maori activist and an activist judge trying to set climate change policy. Great 🙁

I was thinking about the Green Party’s demands that the Government’s investment vehicles stop investing in evil fossil fuels. Just consider that these companies bring us this miracle energy source halfway around the world and deliver it to hundreds of distribution points around the nation.

Without petroleum our society would totally collapse and thousands of people would die in short order. That will be the situation for the forseable future.
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March 9, 2020 10:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Such litigation was not successful in the Courts in the USA.
  There is not sufficient scientific evidence to prove a case for AGW. Most of the claims are politically founded.
  
  What a way to wreck an economy. Can we get our money back from the activists when the climate turns really cold again?
  
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  March 9, 2020 12:36pm
- rockape
  
  Can I sue the Green MPs for all the flying they do that has made my grass dry?
  
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  March 9, 2020 4:47pm
Michael NZ

COVID19 will come and go as so many voices are telling us.

But March 15th is nearly here again and the reminder of the Australian import and his heinous murders of Muslims in CCH is upon us.

Some feel we are ripe for an increase of Muslim immigration with the way our COL has behaved.
The “racists rules’ at DIA have been challenged and changed so more immigrants can come from the Mid East and Africa.

AS DG has said more than once, Muslims at under 2% of the population, we may feel safe, that’s just the start.
As they have a plan….

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/a_french_intellectual_warns_that_france_will_have_a_muslim_future.html
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March 9, 2020 10:54am
Fletch

I think it is the ultimate in stupidity that the Olympics are still going ahead while we have a world wide viral pandemic happening. Hey, let’s just get millions of spectators worldwide to fly in to a confined venue then have them all fly back to their respective countries and take whatever germs they’ve caught back with them…

Monumentally foolish…
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March 9, 2020 11:05am
hullkiwi

Staggering news item this morning thanks to the good work of the Taxpayer’s Union and RNZ running with the story. It is a story of the incompetence of the Ministry of Health and the poor accountability attached to how how taxpayer’s money is used.

I am referring to the Quit Charity and the $3mill of taxpayer’s funds they are sitting on in a trust and paying to their Board Members. This despite the activities of the Trust being epund up in 2015.

Inecpiclibly, the MoH has allowed the Trust to sit on the money, for the 4 board members to pay themselves 18k each per annum, and although not active the MoH has permitted the Charity’s board to continue spending the trust money on programmes they consider appropriate to help people quit smoking. Even worse there is no time frame by when the money must be spent.

We are talking about taxpayer’s money ending up in the pockets of people “administering” a charity that ceased operation in 2015!

You couldn’t make this up if you tried. I thought this type of thing was meant to have ended back in the late 1980s. All it shows is we have had governments in power, but not actually administering matters for which they are/were responsible.

Reference http://www.rnz.co.nz
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March 9, 2020 11:09am
- Swifty
  
  And this was first raised three and a half years ago….
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/308649/govt-calls-lawyers-over-'quit'-charity
  
  Nice work if you can get it.
  
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  March 9, 2020 2:37pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Where’s the Auditor General. This seems like public monies being wasted.
  
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  March 9, 2020 5:36pm
Prince

Have spent a morning trying to apply for National Super. What an enlightening experience.
First off I need a client number. Ring the Work and Income 0800 number, wait time 25 minutes. Finally get through, cut off. Ring again, same thing, wait 22 minutes, cut off.
While I wait there is a recurring message. I am advised that if I’m ‘struggling a bit’ and need ‘mental strengthening’, call the 0800 number……

Third times a charm – I get my client number.
Next step, log on to MyMSD using my fresh shiny client number.
First step,
“We need to know your current email address or mobile number to complete your MyMSD registration. Please call us.”
Why not ask that when they gave me the client number ? Who knows…..

So back to the same Work and Income 0800 number, wait time 29 minutes.
I’m still waiting,
I’m not kidding.
Anyway, I’m still waiting for someone to answer so I can give them my mobile number.
No wonder we can get nothing right in this country, and no wonder we have so many mental health problems when we go searching for them and trying to create them.

What was that mental health number again ?
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March 9, 2020 11:12am
- alex Masterley
  
  Everyone at W&I will be doing waiata practice. Thats the reason the hold line is so long.
  
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  March 9, 2020 12:59pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Or eating out of date Kentucky fried like that smug shit of a woman in the ad when the caller is put on hold while she has her scoff. Many a true word spoken in jest.
    
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    March 9, 2020 5:16pm
- Poppa
  
  You have my sympathy. I have just been through the same experience. Once I finally managed to complete the online part I then had to go to a WINZ office armed with various papers proving who I was etc
  
  That was fine until we rocked up to a man with a clip board outside who refused us entry because we didn’t have an appointment. Not to be discouraged we went to another WINZ in another part of town & were welcomed with open arms
  
  They were pleasant to deal with but naturally sent us away to get a couple more important documents such as evidence of Mrs P’s maiden name. No idea why as she wasn’t applying for it
  
  It did my head in
  
  10 0
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  March 9, 2020 1:38pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    WINZ has gotten more officious. They are cutting benefit payments and having to reinstate them through their lack of concern–they now seem rule bound.
    
    5 0
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    March 9, 2020 5:34pm
  - Prince
    
    Thanks for the warnings. That would fit with my experience so far – I’ve been told, having applied ‘online’, to now go to W&I with evidence etc. I’m also not applying for my wife so I’ll see how that goes.
    This process looks as though a committee has dreamt it up and nobody has actually stepped through it.
    
    2 0
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    March 9, 2020 6:43pm
- cmm
  
  You’re doing it all wrong.
  
  You should go on the dole when you’re 64 and your case manager will do it all for you.
  
  5 0
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  March 9, 2020 2:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I put my application in 6 months before my 65th, because I knew how useless they would be. Besides, I was in Alaska for my 65th – and even voted from there. Chena Hot Springs – satellite internet and it worked!
    
    6 0
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    March 9, 2020 3:43pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Snap but without the Alaska connection.
      
      I have a UK pension due as well, they ignored that.
      
      Can’t wait for the Gold Card, I am getting out of my Mercedes to ride on a bus . . .
      
      3 0
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      March 9, 2020 5:19pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s an eye-opener isn’t it?
  
  The hubby nearly had a heart-attack as he tried to explain he had come down to the main Gizzy office to inform them that he could not use their bloody phone system because he has never had a “client number”….
  
  Of course they couldn’t start processing anything there and then until he told them his client number…..
  
  9 0
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  March 9, 2020 3:28pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    There’s a hole in my bucket dear Liza dear Liza, there’s a hole in my bucket dear Liza, a hole.
    
    4 0
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    March 9, 2020 5:22pm
Jack5

The Green-heavy Government is considering changing the law to allow cycling on footpaths – and no doubt powered scooters.

Okay, but also make it legal for walkers to carry cutlasses to defend themselves. Sword-walking sticks for the elderly.

The move will further push up injury costs to ACC, while cyclists and scooter riders are free from contributing to the scheme.

Cycle lanes clogging the streets, now the Greens want the footpaths.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/411268/cycling-on-footpaths-may-be-allowed-under-planned-rule-changes
16 0
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March 9, 2020 11:15am
- Tall Man
  
  Often see cyclists riding on the footpath around here and ignoring the cycleways right beside the footpath.
  
  8 0
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  March 9, 2020 12:58pm
  - sooty
    
    There are walking sticks out there made out of the same plastic as a Minto bar. Unbreakable!
    
    5 0
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    March 9, 2020 4:13pm
igm

Thank you Simon Bridges. At last somebody is looking at the bullshit businesses are absorbing because of slimy little clipboard Charlies.
They are in the main unemployable in any productive position, but relish running around enforcing ridiculous regulations which in the end, cost consumers.
These little wimps possibly get a kick out of stuffing up our profit margins as they will never be anything else but leeches and union drones.
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March 9, 2020 11:15am
fernglas

Did you read the article? (I ask that because a lot of people on here seem to think the headline is enough to get upset over, even though they think the MSM is all fake news). The Judge said that the claim was a novel one which deserved to be considered by a Court. So quite how you can assert that the judge has tried to set a climate change policy, when what he has in fact said is that someone else needs to consider it, is beyond me
5 1
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March 9, 2020 11:20am
- Tall Man
  
  My only concern was who is funding him.
  
  6 0
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  March 9, 2020 12:59pm
NoCash

Turkey shares a border with Iran, a hotspot of covid19, yet there is no confirmed case in Turkey…

Considering the refugee crisis in Turkey now, is this another unmitigated disaster waiting to happen?
7 1
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March 9, 2020 11:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Turkey and Pakistan closed their borders with Iran on February 23rd. Turkey also suspended flights from Iran on the 23rd.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/23/turkey-and-pakistan-close-borders-with-iran-over-coronavirus-deaths
  
  NZ didn’t take action about closing flights from Iran until late on Feb 28th.
  
  6 0
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  March 9, 2020 3:34pm
Jack5

Does taking land for key projects under the Public Works Act now apply only to non-Maori?

The Ngati Tama tribe is to receive a special deal for land needed for a $200 million road in Taranaki. Stuff highlights the $7.7 million cash part of the settlement, but there is also:

– A land swap involving a 120 hectare property.

– Pest management in perpetuity (that is, for ever) over 3650 hectares of NZ Transport Agency land.

– Work and business opportunities for tribe members and a role in the road project’s “cultural design”.

The Stuff report puts the total settlement value over 100 years at $39 million.

Incidentally and, of course, unrelated to the road project: Ngati Tama was one of the two Taranaki tribes that invaded the Chatham Islands not long before the Treaty of Waitangi, and murdered and enslaved the local Moriori people. The Crown recently apologised for the results of this, and provided an $18 million settlement.

The road settlement:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/120058396/iwi-get-cash-payment-of-77m-in-deal-done-over-200m-taranaki-road-project
7 0
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March 9, 2020 11:44am
- Nickc2
  
  Another F_ing rort! When will this stuff end? Is National up to ending this stuff? I sincerely hope so.
  
  7 1
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  March 9, 2020 1:11pm
Southtop2

Saw this and i hope it does go to court. It may be one way of getting some facts not theories aired – although i am sadly aware of Stuff and the Heralds publishing bias. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWahKIG4BE4
NB: i used the work MAY but also COULD would have sufficed – these are words used in most climate change articles like this gem from the IPCC circa 1998-2000 ….. the sea level COULD rise by 1 metre by 2100.
Well if that is the case and we are now 20 centimetres into the century, they should be proud of their word selection
7 1
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March 9, 2020 11:58am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Sea levels rising? Only if you’re seeking other people’s money.
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/08/looking-for-acceleration-in-all-the-wrong-places/
  
  4 1
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  March 9, 2020 5:28pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  n real world; about 4cm in last 20 years. Just another IPCC swing-and-miss.
  
  4 1
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  March 9, 2020 5:30pm
kowtow

Interesting article in the ODT about the culture of control at Otago University.

“Senior academics say the University of Otago has developed a negative, top-down, management culture that is undermining trust, productivity and mental health. They, and others, speak anonymously with Bruce Munro about grave concerns for themselves, fellow staff and the future of the university.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/magazine/culture-control
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March 9, 2020 12:01pm
Cobolt24

Cheaper oil is coming.
Saudi Arabia to slash its prices as it reportedly gets set to ramp up production
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/oil-plummets-30percent-as-opec-deal-failure-sparks-price-war-fears.html
11 0
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March 9, 2020 12:32pm
- Tall Man
  
  Excellent, more room for ardern to add more tax.
  
  6 1
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  March 9, 2020 1:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    But it is not a new tax, just an increase to keep up with COL induced inflation?
    
    7 0
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    March 9, 2020 3:39pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Financial Equalisation Adjustment Tax to stabilise the price at the pump in NZ.
    
    3 0
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    March 9, 2020 5:26pm
- NoCash
  
  So they’re siding with Putin to put an end to the US shale oil producers…
  
  Rumour is that the SA king is in a coma, the crown prince is ready to take over. The new king may not want to keep depending on Uncle Sam for military protection…
  
  Interesting times…
  
  6 0
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  March 9, 2020 1:40pm
- cmm
  
  But, but, but we hit peak oil in the 70s…
  
  8 0
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  March 9, 2020 2:51pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  So does this mean petrol prices will drop?
  
  2 0
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  March 9, 2020 6:54pm
- kloyd0306
  
  Prices have been dropping for some days and soon by a lot but not enough to be continually ripped off by taxes and the oil companies, who are very slow in reacting, yet very quick when the barrel price increases.
  
  So much for the enquiry into pricing. Zip, zero, nada.
  
  Double whammy. Continued sky-high taxes yet the monies are going to bike and bus lanes.
  
  2 0
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  March 9, 2020 8:17pm
curry4me

https://amgreatness.com/2020/03/07/joe-biden-i-am-as-sharp-as-a-tack-sharper-even/
A leaked copy of a Biden speech. Well maybe -;)
3 0
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March 9, 2020 1:01pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gfN2_uOvTM
The presitators organ donation program. Lets forget Aliexpess, and leave the stuff from the Warehouse on the shelf.
1 0
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March 9, 2020 1:02pm
cmm

I see Labour has a real doctor: Dr Liz Craig.

So why isn’t she the Min of Health rather than the doctor of divinities David Clark?
10 0
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March 9, 2020 1:14pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Because she likes drinking with minors?
  
  8 0
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  March 9, 2020 2:36pm
- sam green
  
  Tony Ryall worked in a bank.
  
  0 9
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  March 9, 2020 2:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And sam green has never worked. How bout that?
    
    12 0
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    March 9, 2020 3:36pm
    - sam green
      
      Such witty repartee Steve Otto (man of mystery).
      
      0 10
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      March 9, 2020 3:56pm
Swifty

For Maggy W – if of interest:

https://maungakorero.wordpress.com/
4 0
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March 9, 2020 1:48pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh, that’s Great, thanks.
  
  I only know 4 of them.
  
  Might make it a project to try and visit (or at least sight) them all.
  
  3 0
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  March 9, 2020 4:05pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/120122993/recession-likely-and-theres-nothing-we-can-do-to-stop-it-bnz-says

The economy has been going backwards for months but now this government will no doubt use this as their only excuse. Unbelievable.
17 0
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March 9, 2020 2:23pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  NZ has been treading water ever since the Selection took place.
  Global assets have been overpriced through excessive credit creation and it was only a matter of time before the adjustments come. I’m expecting a Lulu, way beyond the present amateurs ability to deal with it. This could be a 10 year event.
  
  4 0
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  March 9, 2020 5:23pm
- curry4me
  
  Wired-one: If this turns out to be true, the COL is a goner. Incumbent governments don’t survive a recession in an election year. Hugzilla better make sure the UN job is still available.
  
  2 0
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  March 9, 2020 8:17pm
Pharmachick

I’ve been saying right from the beginning that the drugs Amantadine and Rimantadine should be tried against nCOVID19. They are actually for Parkinson’s, but they used to be used against influenza as they block the pore-forming M2 peptidase preventing the viral insertion. They are approved and dosages are known. They’re not used for flu anymore because resistance has developed almost world-wide.

So I’m looking up the ACE2 insertional protein and came across the Science and Nature articles I posted upthread. And what do you know – ACE2 has the M2 peptidase in its core coding region. Instead of messing around with unproven, preclinical ACE2 inhibitors or TRMPSS inhibitors [the latter inhibits the serine-protease that makes the pore that lets the virus in], or Gilead’s new drug, in this acute situation I don’t understand why not at least try the old drugs? Albeit that I don’t know what the world supply of them is at present, and manufacturing might be quite small.
9 0
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March 9, 2020 2:28pm
- Aunty
  
  My understanding, Pharmachick, is that a number of drugs are in clinical trials at the moment, but the results of these won’t be known until April. I’m sure other’s have had the same idea as you have had, and that these drugs are being used by someone somewhere. Let’s hope they work and the results are rapidly communicated to everybody.
  
  3 0
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  March 9, 2020 4:38pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Aunty, you are correct, except the trials will be done July at a minimum. I know many of the people running those trials…
    
    1 0
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    March 10, 2020 7:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Thanks, biochemistry is rightfully fascinating.
  
  3 0
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  March 9, 2020 5:17pm
Jack5

Im Chaem, a former top officer in Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge, who with her husband is alleged to have been responsible for more than half a million deaths, has converted to Christianity.

“I became a Christian to save myself. People who don’t believe in Jesus don’t understand,” she told a reporter.

The South China Morning Post reports that Kaing Guek Eav, known as Duch – the man in charge of the notorious Tuol Sleng prison in Phnom Penh, where thousands of people were interrogated and tortured to death – has also converted to Christianity.

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/3065205/former-khmer-rouge-officers-accused
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March 9, 2020 2:40pm
- Swifty
  
  Hey mandk, Scott and KevOB, michael etc.
  
  How come these people will get into Heaven after murdering half a million people – and good ol’ atheists like me, nasska and others, who have never hurt a fly, won’t.
  
  Can you explain this please?
  
  It seems a bit harsh 🙂
  
  8 0
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  March 9, 2020 3:48pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It may seem harsh but the offer is open to all. It’s not based on being good or bad–none of us would qualify that way. It’s free gift from God for accepting His Son as your personal Saviour. A life changing event which many here will scoff at. It’s an act of faith, a leap guided by prayer which which will empower the rest of your life.
    I document this in my Bio which will be available shortly
    
    6 3
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    March 9, 2020 5:14pm
    - Swifty
      
      Thanks KevOB.
      
      So, let’s see if I get this straight.
      
      I can have lived the worst possible life, even full of murder and other destruction, but if I join your God’s club, even in the final minutes of my life, then I get to live at God’s side forever.
      
      If, however, I live what many people would believe a good and wholesome life, but am unable to be convinced by the evidence on offer for a god, then I will burn forever in a lake of fire?
      
      Have I got this right?
      
      5 0
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      March 9, 2020 5:31pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Yep but when you’re dead … you’re dead.
        
        1 0
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        March 9, 2020 8:54pm
    - nasska
      
      …..”It’s an act of faith, a leap guided by prayer which which will empower the rest of your life.”…..
      
      If bullshit were rubber you’d bounce off the moon.
      
      1 0
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      March 9, 2020 8:33pm
  - kowtow
    
    When they committed the atrocities they were atheists ( so you some have common ground there 🙂 They had previously been Buddhists , but my take on reading the article is , as Buddhists facing old age and death , they are condenmed to a long period in “circles of hell ” , so they’ve cynically chosen to become Christians in order to dodge an unpleasant afterlife. On the face of it , this would not meet the test of genuine conversion ,so I’m afraid St Peter ain’t going to let them through the Pearly Gates ………
    
    Here endeth the lesson.
    
    3 1
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    March 9, 2020 5:20pm
- Inandout
  
  Jack5, of all the religions in all the world…
  
  0 1
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  March 9, 2020 4:09pm
- Aunty
  
  Burn the witch.
  
  2 0
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  March 9, 2020 5:07pm
DeepBlue

Why does it take 54 staff to be in close contact (15mins within 1m) in the COID19 Northshore hospital case?.
13 1
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March 9, 2020 2:51pm
- NoCash
  
  I assume the 54 are not all direct close contacts, but include secondary or even tertiary close contacts as well, such as when a nurse who had direct contact with the patient, then made out with a doctor or as such ;-p
  
  Disclaimer: I’ve perhaps watched too much medical drama on TV.
  
  10 1
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  March 9, 2020 3:26pm
Max

Coronavirus: Lab workers planning strike, despite Ministry of Health promising to up testing says Stuff. Yes Jacinda has solved the mitigation of Coronavirus in NZ.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120122652/coronavirus-lab-workers-planning-strike-despite-ministry-of-health-promising-to-up-testing
9 1
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March 9, 2020 2:55pm
- MrTips
  
  Lol. APEX is run by morons. Fact: if the MLTs had the brains they would leave APEX and join the other union. They would get an immediate payrise and better conditions.
  
  Pretty clear APEX is putting pressure on members to remain lest the union bosses lose their power and gravy train.
  
  F*** em. You don’t go on strike now of all times.
  
  3 1
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  March 9, 2020 7:14pm
Fletch

Coronavirus live info panel / map courtesy of Johns Hopkins University.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
5 1
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March 9, 2020 2:58pm
- Pharmachick
  
  I’ve been watching this since it went up … it is an excellent resource – generally updated 2-3 times per day (US Eastern Standard Time)
  
  5 1
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  March 9, 2020 4:58pm
Swifty

Radio New Zealand makes it’s bias known right from the get go:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/411288/power-play-maori-party-strategy-already-undermined-by-tamihere
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March 9, 2020 4:14pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Ah, the white people’s radio station
  
  ©2020 Batman of this parish
  
  3 0
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  March 9, 2020 4:44pm
- Prince
  
  What a remarkable article.
  Summary:
  A Maori party must align with Labour, regardless of the outcomes for their electorates/members/voters.
  
  5 0
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  March 9, 2020 6:56pm
- doggone7
  
  Makes it’s bias known. By having a ‘Politics Comment and Analysis’ page? By having political commentators?
  
  They also regularly have Matthew Hooton on air. I heard Simon Bridges on there this morning. Are those things making its bias known?
  
  0 0
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  March 9, 2020 10:22pm
Kabull

Once again the sensible people at Sky News Australia destroy the climate nonsense. Oh that we had media prepared to stand up the same way – yes, Peter Williams and Sean Plunket do make a stand, but they don’t get the coverage they need.

Any way, this clip is worth watching. Dean reports that northern hemisphere snow mass currently above the 1982-2012 average. And towards the end of the clip he notes that a recent UN/US model has found “complete elimination of all fossil fuels in the US immediately would only restrict any increase in world temperature by less and one tenth of one degree Celsius by 2050, and by less than one fifth of one degree Celsius by 2100.”

Of course, because this is completely at odds with the political hysteria so enthusiastically supported by the MSM, we will not see any reports of this study here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5pIvNOlkcM
11 3
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March 9, 2020 5:29pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Come in SB2…. We are waiting with bated breath.. ( Actually we are not, we don’t care what you think say or do, but its becoming tedious to have to downtick you 30 times so that we can preserve our scroll wheels)…..
  
  9 0
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  March 9, 2020 7:11pm
jonnycomelately

How does the Beehive Bimbo have the stupidity to claim that the minimum wage rise will go ahead because our economy is in good shape with solid surpluses? Today the BNZ published a report that we are starting a recession. The Reserve Bank is going to lower the cash rate to close to zero? These idiots have squandered away the surpluses on all sorts of trivial committees and advisory work groups leaving nothing in the cupboard. Bring on the election with a -0 growth rate and she how that works for her.
12 0
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March 9, 2020 7:55pm
- Tall Man
  
  Garnered votes though sunshine ….
  
  2 0
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  March 9, 2020 8:56pm

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