General Debate 21 February 2020

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artemisia

‘A standard measure of inequality, called the Gini co-efficient, at 33.9 is as bad as it has been at any time in National’s last nine years in power and higher than it was before the global financial crisis.’

Brian Fallow in the Herald today – behind the paywall, but there is PressReader.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12310186
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February 21, 2020 8:01am
Andrei

Please Oh please let this be satire
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February 21, 2020 8:05am
- Than
  
  Presumably there will need to be a device to capture methane from the other end as well.
  
  And of course humans also burp and fart. So how long until the cult of climate-change catches up with Mormonism and has prescribed special underwear for its followers.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:30am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    Most methane cones out of a cows mouth. The other end pollutes rivers but that is a separate issue.
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:40am
    - Pateke
      
      Separate issue indeed!
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:26am
      - sooty
        
        That end will have a bucket for the farmer to empty in a safe environmental friendly way!
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:10am
  - Andrei
    
    What are we going to do about the Hippopotami, Rhinoceros, elephants and other large herbivourous animal emmissions I wonder?
    
    Or is only emissions from herbivores subject human animal husbandry that are “harmful to the environment”?
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:31am
    - Than
      
      I assume that comes down to numbers – there are a lot more cows and other domesticated animals out there than wild mammals. There just aren’t enough hippos, rhinos, etc. out there to matter.
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:52am
      - alloytoo
        
        But that wasn’t always the case.
        
        Domesticated livestock have displace wild live stock,
        
        Andrei’s question remains valid.
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:15am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Pablo Escobar, still causing trouble 27 years after his death,
      https://www.thevintagenews.com/2020/02/18/pablo-escobars-hippos/
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:49am
    - Biscuit
      
      Winston’s pals’ ‘Pretty Horses’ will, of course, be exempt from any sanctions…
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:05am
      - yossarian
        
        Ah shit, now you’ve got me humming Father Ted’s My Lovely Horse!!!
        
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        February 22, 2020 8:15am
  - Raphael
    
    you jest, but I’ve seen articles about “methane” backpacks for cows to capture their farts.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:02am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I seriously doubt that this is an actual invention – just someone’s idea of a joke!
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:06am
Captain Mainwaring

I’m currently re-reading a 20 year old book called ‘The Demon Profession’ by Michael Laws.
Irrespective of what you might think of Laws, he can string words together and this book lays bare everything that is wrong with Winston Raymond Peters.
The man was an ego-driven, lying, controlling maniac back in those days and nothing has changed since. He’s just got older and more full of his own bullshit.
I can’t fathom why even 3.6% of voters think he’s a good idea.
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February 21, 2020 8:05am
- Andrei
  
  Perhaps M. Laws can write so well on WP because he is a man cut from the same cloth
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:09am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Andrei, my thoughts exactly. I was going to ask “was he writing about WP or himself?”
    
    I can remember when Laws first burst on to the dominion level of the Young Nats as Otago YN Chairman. He had an inflated ego then, and he had made it known even in the early 80s that he wanted to a MP.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:22am
- Frank Thomas
  
  It just goes to show that a certain percentage of the population will always be taken in by this charlatan and snake oil salesman.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:11am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Why is why you want to avoid an electoral system that rewards that sort of behaviour.
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:59am
  - Frank Thomas
    
    Sure, MMP does have a part to play in it, but three times this guy has been in a coalition government and now three times this guy has shit in his own nest. After the first two times you would think the average guy in the street wouldn’t even entertain the idea of voting for him but once again the silver tongued fox speaks out of both sides of his mouth and his sycophants just sit there and lap it up. “Winston First – Keeping the other guys honest”.
    Fcuk, this guy wouldn’t know honest if it bit him on the arse singing “honest times are here again”.
    (Apologies to Blackadder)
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:41am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Even when he was part of the National caucus, in both opposition and govt he would sh*t on his own colleagues. Showing he was never a team player. Which brings into question what sort of rugby player he ever was.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:26am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        I’m picking he was a halfback who just box kicked every ball that came his way from the forwards, then complained that they lost the game because the number 10 was crap!
        
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        February 21, 2020 12:35pm
  - 453mm
    
    Indeed. And as that certain percentage grows under the tutelage of Karen from Facebook, we need to consider whether MMP’s 5% threshold is high enough.
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:52am
    - Michael NZ
      
      453mm
      I would prefer MMP be gone and with it all the list MP’s.
      Only MP’s accountable directly to the voters.
      We should make sure we don’t vote tribally but even for independents.11:16
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:17am
      - 453mm
        
        I agree Michael. My comment was about fixing MMP if getting rid of it is not possible.
        
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        February 21, 2020 1:06pm
- Simon
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yep Winston is NZ First. He owns the donations fraud. He will know everything.
  
  Whereas the CCP have been buying or leasing National – Simon Bridges inherited the system set up by those before. That is why they had to cart Bridges up to China last year to see how the National party really worked.
  
  That’s why Bridges says National will pay back the bent CCP money. He doesnt really know much or is pretending not to know much. If the SFO did a proper investigation on bent CCP money flowing into National then National couldnt pay it all back. They would be broke.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How do you know? It’s election year and Ardern in trouble–camp followers to the mud pits.
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:35am
  - Justitia
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Well, there’s no way Bridges and the National Party will escape the backwash from the coming court case. JLR was Chief Whip and he knows where the bodies are buried. He appears to have been National’s bagman for donations from Chinese sources. As a bagman he was likely just a “go-between”, not a mover and shaker. National threw him under a bus. Stay tuned.
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:44am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      JLR has proved flakey–look where he is now.
      He can stir as much as he likes but by comparison the COl are outrunning him on messing up the country.
      Three months left of COL? Winston doesn’t exit gracefully.
      ☑️☑️Rout2020☑️☑️
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:07am
      - Michael NZ
        
        let’s see Kev.
        These people are wrigglers par excellance…
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:21am
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      JLR has been running around looking for buses to jump under.
      He is neither as well, nor as smart as he thinks he is.
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:33am
    - Frank Thomas
      
      While I am no fan of JLR, the guy obviously has mental health issues. You can say what you like about politics being a big boys game, etc, etc, but he has shown he is unwell and out of his depth. The people egging him on (Lusk and Slater) are the ones I have true contempt for, especially the later considering after what he has been through.
      The one thing this donation scandal has shown is that all of the political parties hands are dirty to various degrees.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:05am
      - tf78
        
        If JLR is unfit for purpose on mental health guide lines and shouldn’t be in parliament.
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:18am
    - alloytoo
      
      1. SFO have a reputation for only charging slam dunk cases.
      
      2. If JLR had anything he would have handed it over to the SFO to save his own worthless skin.
      
      Thus far JLR’s sting operation has been a glorious exercise in shooting his own toes off one at a time.
      
      Dunning Kruger and narcissism shouldn’t mix, but invariably do and both are strong in this idiot.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:25am
    - peterwn
      
      “He appears to have been National’s bagman for donations from Chinese sources.”
      Because he chose to be – hoping to gain ‘Brownie Points’. As I read things he was cautioned that it must be legal.
      So JLR threw three Chinese members under the bus hoping also to throw Simon under the bus, and to his utter surprise the three threw him under the bus.
      SFO would have investigated the donations as received by the National Party and found no wrongdoing (at least ‘beyond reasonable doubt’). SFO would also have reviewed JLR’s claims about Simon’s alleged involvement and found nothing there either.
      So this reduces JLR to having to try and use the Court hearing as a soapbox, but I doubt that it would be scheduled until next year by which time he will be political history. The other three will probably plead guilty on Tuesday and be sentenced soon after (two will probably get wet bus tickets), but JLR will not get a look-in with this.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:52am
      - alwyn
        
        “JLR to having to try and use the Court hearing as a soapbox”.
        That will be like the book from the 1960’s I was reminded of the other day.
        In 1963 John A Lee published a book called “Simple on a Soapbox”. That would seem to describe JRL rather well. I also expect his claims will be just as historically biased as were Lee’s about Savage and Fraser.
        
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        February 21, 2020 2:26pm
      - peterwn
        
        alwyn – There was dirty politics back then. Politicians had to use trains then. John was in a sleeping compartment on the Wellington to Auckland train when a woman came into his compartment to try and seduce her but he did not fall for it. She was a well known prostitute hired by Labour Party people to try and ‘sting’ him.
        Anyway comparing John A Lee to JLR is quite unfair to John. John may have had downsides but was basically honourable and could hold his head high after his political life ended. Unless JLR is able to do a massive change of tune his future looks rather grim.
        
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        February 21, 2020 4:48pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Stay tuned”…
      
      I think you actually need to “tune in” as you seem to be well out of it.
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:27am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    are you suggesting that everyone with slant eyes and “Chinese sounding surnames” is somehow an agent of the Chinese govt, bent on controlling the world?
    “Simon” are you really Phil Twyford?
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:50am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      This is a current attack meme this year. Forget truth we have an electric eel to handle.
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:09am
    - Simon
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “are you suggesting that everyone with slant eyes and “Chinese sounding surnames” is somehow an agent of the Chinese govt, bent on controlling the world?”
      
      No just bent on controlling National which they seem to have achieved. Look at the grovelling CCP lickspittle John Keys.
      
      There is wide information about the CCP connections of the donors involved. For eg one of many.
      
      Last week the original Chinese version of the article below appeared in the Chinese-language magazine Beijing Spring. It is about the background of Zhang Yikun the (non-English-speaking) Auckland businessmen who suddenly emerged into the public spotlight recently when Jami-Lee Ross released a tape of a conversation with National Party leader Simon Bridges. Zhang Yikun had, it appeared, arranged/facilitated a set of donations to the National Party, totalling $100000, and had discussed with Bridges and Ross the possibility of another ethnic Chinese MP, apparently naming as a possible candidate one of his own employees/associates. Once the spotlight fell on Zhang Yikun it turned out that he had had extensive associations with senior figures in both main New Zealand political parties. And both he and his associate appear to have extensive involvement with the PRC’s United Front programme.
      
      https://croakingcassandra.com/2018/10/31/on-the-background-of-zhang-yikun/
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:34am
      - Batman
        
        You lost me at “Keys”
        
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        February 21, 2020 9:43am
      - calendar girl
        
        Yep, John “Keys” would add a great deal to one’s confidence in Simon as an NZ political commentator.
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:46am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        So…and the other question…Are you Phil Twyford???
        He also can join 2 dots together and come up with the Mona Lisa.
        Creative, but stupid
        Creative , but wrong………………again.
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:55am
      - Tall Man
        
        Sorry Batman, reported in error…… I think 😉
        
        I have finally figured it out, he’s Alicia’s little brother 🙂
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:24am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Simon
        another ethnic Chinese MP?
        Surely by population no’s 1 is enough!
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:26am
      - Fletch
        
        Wasn’t he leaders of that Nationals Party?
        
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        February 21, 2020 12:27pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        When you believe what you only like you miss important bits–the COL is foundering.
        
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        February 21, 2020 3:14pm
      - hmmm82
        
        Simon, note that none of the replies above address your point.
        I wonder if the two-tick-blue brigade will still be happy when a CCP company owns Ports of Auckland. Who could have have seen that coming?
        
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        February 21, 2020 7:58pm
    - Michael NZ
      
      RW
      The way the Chinese Intelligence have used overseas Chinese communities and papers would indicate as a community they are pliable to them.
      Australia is being very open about their fight with it finally.
      
      Plus historically the way the Chinese leadership treat people per se, would indicate the Overseas Chinese populations are vulnerable to pressures on loved ones back home!
      
      I think the CCP are ruthless and will do whatever it takes. whatever.
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:25am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Chinese bagmen?… you mean like ex Labour Cabinet Ministers from the Hawkes Bay diverting to go on river cruises in China… just for fun of course….
    
    Simon I would suggest if you have EVIDENCE of what you are saying you should bring it forward under your real name in a public forum. Otherwise its just a typical Fraser House type smear…
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:00am
    - sooty
      
      Don’t remember that. But I do remember John Hatfield going missing, not once but twice.
      Even had his missus on the trip we paid for to Gay Paree!
      
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      February 21, 2020 4:27pm
    - hmmm82
      
      The only evidence we the public will see is the freebies from CCP bagmen our politicians are too venal to turn down. What evidence the NZ authorities and bureaucrats have isn’t going to make it into public places.
      The CCP are buying everyone they want. There is some lower level fightback (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12179132but) ,but no matter how cheap politicians are (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YReZtpPe8p4), the MSM is cheaper https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/409795/no-need-for-travel-restrictions-china-s-ambassador-to-nz.
      
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      February 21, 2020 8:22pm
  - rouppe
    
    Is it possible that Chinese people tend to support national because they know first hand what communism is and does and don’t want the authoritarian Marxist Labour Party to be in power?
    
    Just look at what Jacinda Adern has done. Stomped on an industry. Unilaterally made law abiding citizens criminals. They’re looking to remove property rights from particular citizens. They’re talking about allowing the police to force people to talk. They want justice for victims but hide their own sexual predators.
    
    This is serious. What’s next?
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:13am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Simon you may well be right.
    How much National is compromised by China, is probably telling by the Chinese Intelligence agent they have as a MP.
    
    Labour too is compromised, it doesn’t look good for our future.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:19am
  - Tall Man
    
    Good god simon take a pill and have a wee lie down.
    
    I have asked before yet you have not answered. Do you truly believe that an entire political party, National or labour, could be bought for a couple of hundred thousand dollars? If so, you really are a sad bugger.
    
    I am not a political party nor will I ever be in government but I can assure you that my “price” for corruption would exceed even the most generous benefactor.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:21am
    - hmmm82
      
      I am assuming you aren’t a politician, out there gladhanding everybody and begging for money as a job. If you were you might be surprised how low you can go.
      
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      February 21, 2020 8:27pm
- Michael NZ
  
  In my case Capt,
  
  National was not looking after little NZ and kicking important issues down the road and avoiding them.
  
  Plus they (Key/English/Brownley/McCully) made NO effort to get rid of the racist Maori seats that they had campaigned on.
  I could go on but that is enough.
  
  If I had thought for one moment that Winston’s NZF would go with Labour and The Greens I would have not voted.
  
  I was wrong about NZF. period.
  Never Again, especially with what I now know about NZF now.
  
  Our Freedoms are so important and the Gun Law issue has shown National and Simon Bridges as not safe for Kiwis sadly.
  Plus David Seymour is the only one to stand for our basic freedoms and he was attacked by Judith Collins and The Green Women for doing so.
  
  https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15600/intolerant-left-liberal-democracy
  08:19
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:20am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Getting rid of the Maori seats is a matter of timing.
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:10am
    - sooty
      
      Yer, sooner the better!
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:13am
      - curry4me
        
        The day before yesterday would have been great timing.
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:56am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    National was not looking after little NZ and kicking important issues down the road and avoiding them.
    Priorities, it’s called….1st job was to fix the mess Clark had made, 2nd deal with the GFC, 3rd Chch earthquake etc 4th expand NZ trade…..
    After the first dozen things fixed, 4th term would have meant dealing with future issues.
    
    Plus they (Key/English/Brownley/McCully) made NO effort to get rid of the racist Maori seats that they had campaigned on.
    
    See above
    
    I could go on but that is enough.
    
    A statement you make when you have nothing left to say, but hope people will believe you do.
    
    If I had thought for one moment that Winston’s NZF would go with Labour and The Greens I would have not voted.
    Easily duped, failure to look into his past?
    
    I was wrong about NZF. period.
    
    Yes you were and we forgive you, please learn from this, when the next charlatan comes along.
    
    Never Again, especially with what I now know about NZF now.
    
    well done
    
    Our Freedoms are so important and the Gun Law issue has shown National and Simon Bridges as not safe for Kiwis sadly.
    
    Single issue politics will be the downfall of any country.
    
    Plus David Seymour is the only one to stand for our basic freedoms and he was attacked by Judith Collins and The Green Women for doing so.
    
    Politics is largely about differing opinions.
    I view it like this
    Politics is a game we can all play and observe.
    Democracy requires the addition of PARTICIPATION. (vote, support a candidate closest to your views and help them get elected)
    Governance is the J O B politicians are supposed to do AFTER the election.
    1. CoL haven’t even shown up for work
    2. seems to be an attitude that National and ACT have.
    3. Keep reminding them:
    a: an election is a JOB interview
    b: the job is to run the parts of the economy we can’t, not to interfere in OUR ability to do as WE please.
    c: It’s called the house of representatives for a reason, THEY are supposed to represent US. Not go off doing as THEY see fit and TELLING us how we should act and think.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:11am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Obviously I don’t concur with you RW.
      
      I do not think National have done enough to convince voters they won’t behave the same as before.
      That makes them not worthy of our vote until they do.
      
      Simon has been silent on our basic freedoms.
      National enabled the Gun Laws.
      They have a Chinese Intelligence Agent in their caucus.
      Too many of their movers and shakers are tied to Chinese interests incl Mrs Collins.
      
      Whilst others in my household may be 2 ticks blue, I am not.
      I did not vote for them because they didn’t qualify.
      
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      February 21, 2020 12:26pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Now we have Ihumatao–Fletchers are getting tired of having their business on hold reminding the PM that Fletchers actually own the land.
        The COL has more to be concerned about than JLR and his Chowick coterie.
        
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        February 21, 2020 3:20pm
- tf78
  
  Yes, I have that book too.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:42am
- igm
  
  Wanganui boomed under Laws’ mayoralty, now it has regressed o what it was prior to his taking the steering wheel.
  Empty shops, Avenue depressed, and Castlecliff looks third world.
  He is a lot more adept than many give him credit.
  
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  February 21, 2020 4:07pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    c’mon.. be honest..
    
    Castlecliff has always been third world.
    
    It was the back of beyond when I grew-up there…by the time I had reached the 6th Form there were no other girls from the ‘cliff in my year.
    
    I never knew anyone from Castlecliff who had been to University…..(tho’ I believe Jerry Mateparae went later in his career)
    
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    February 21, 2020 6:14pm
Pete George

While Slater’s name has been coming up again in relation to the NZ First attack on journalists, and he has emerged from his exile of legal convenience, dirty work continues from SB/Juana Atkins. She has actively managed the BFD’s existence, and is the site registrant and company owner, on paper at least.

Several posts at BFD (that could mean Bullying For Dollars) have made threats aimed at journalists, but SB lowered her sites and took a lame swipe at me. It looks like she pulled some content from Lauda Finem from years ago, and was typical of their approach, a big Defamation threat with bluster over substance.

This could be relevant here:

where ex commenters from well-moderated websites go to bitch in a nice little circle jerk of nastiness . . .

Hilarious irony aside, that could apply here, because this is where ex-Oilers seem to be active.

Actually commenters who remain at BFD have been doing a good job questioning and ridiculing Winston promotions and National/bridges/Bennett hit jobs. Keep it up while you can.
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February 21, 2020 8:10am
- Blackbob
  
  Pushing diarrhea uphill with a limp noodle would be a reasonable summation IMHO of the BFD’s attempts to put the shine back on NZFirst’s reputation along with JLR.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:16am
- JimBobJoe
  
  So whats your point about commentators on Kiwiblog exactly Pete?
  
  I know you where hounded by the LF/WO axis, but why are you letting live rent free in your head now?? WO is broken so is Slater….
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:18am
  - Pete George
    
    Obviously they won’t let me respond their, they’re gutless like that, but there’s a BFD audience here. If they threaten, I’ll respond.
    
    And like Winston if someone says something they don’t like (and there’s been a lot of that here) they throw around legal threats. Not that they have reputations to protect.
    
    The more pressure they are under, the nastier they tend to be. SB and XTR Other seem to be lashing out under pressure. Like Winston, he seems to be losing it too.
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:44am
    - john1234
      
      Not surprising though. NZF, their foundation and Brian Henry appear to be their sole remaining source of income. With the hopeful demise of NZF they are staring at their own long overdue financial extinction.
      
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      February 21, 2020 8:54am
      - Nickc2
        
        Speaking of financial extinction, what would happen to money in the NZ First Foundation should they be found to have acted illegally? Will it be returned to donors on a %age in/out basis, split up among their board or confiscated by the courts and end up as consolidated revenue?
        As an afterthought, can such money be used in defending any charges?
        
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        February 21, 2020 9:50am
      - alloytoo
        
        @Nickc2
        
        It would be interesting if some of the donors start demanding their money back, claiming it was taken into the trust by deception…..
        
        I’m not a lawyer, but I do recall something about “deception” stripping away protections against personal liability. Perhaps someone of a legal bent might offer some analysis.
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:31am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Nick2, getting ahead of ourselves a little?
        
        However, in the first instance the money should go to NZF the party – where it was intended, then pay creditors (govt eg IRD, secured, and unsecured), then what is left is….as per the Electoral Commission
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:36am
      - peterwn
        
        Nickc2 – AFAIK Foundation money cannot be used to defend any criminal charges concerning the trustees. It is a cost the Trustees meet.
        As far as paying money back, money could be refunded to donors or could be forfeited to the Crown as a proceed of crime. Also the trustees would be personally liable for any expenditure outside the Foundation’s objectives, alternatively the money could be clawed back from those who received it.
        A slightly similar situation occurs with the suspect donations to the National Party except that there is no question that the money would not be spent legitimately. National has apparently written to the Electoral Commission about these donations and would no doubt heed the Commission’s advice if any is given. This would help determine whether the money is returned to the donors or paid to the Crown.
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:12am
      - sooty
        
        No. It will end up in Whinestone back pocket, because he is NZF! Might have to pay tax on it now that it’s out in the sunlight!
        He pleads innocence, until the money needs a home and he won’t want to donate it to the tax man!
        
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        February 21, 2020 4:37pm
    - sooty
      
      Well they do have in house lawyering for free!
      
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      February 21, 2020 8:59am
    - JimBobJoe
      
      So you spam Kiwiblog to indirectly talk SB and Slater et al? really – you have your own blog for that surely!
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:02am
      - sooty
        
        But it’s like hughies blog, no one visits!
        
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        February 21, 2020 4:39pm
      - Pete George
        
        You obviously don’t know what spam is.
        
        I wasn’t posting here for SB/Slater. I was posting for an audience common to KB and BFD. Going by most of the response (with one or two exceptions) it seems to be a topic of interest here.
        
        WO used to use the power of their popularity to attack and bully people. The BFD has nothing like that popularity (they have inherited the infamy of WO in decline and have annoyed many with their shilling for NZ First and their attacks on the national party and leadership) but they still try to do hit jobs and spite posts. There’s ways of holding to account.
        
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        February 22, 2020 8:05am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Let it rest for your own peace.
      The BFD mob are a bunch of scrappers who will entangle all who indulge them. They are not worthy of taking on and their heads are ultra thick so contrary opinions cause them to fume at their mouths.
      KB is much more tolerant, wide ranging and friendly.
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:14am
      - Frank Thomas
        
        The BFD is basically The Standard in drag……
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:24am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      If you are looking for justice in your former dealings with Slater & Mob forget it. Their views are fixed and peculiar so reason does not apply. They are reminiscent of the socialist activist personality–neo bullies. They really are as effective as a flea on a dinosaurs back.
      
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      February 21, 2020 3:25pm
- Than
  
  Pete George, that rag is not worth your time. Just ignore it and don’t give them the oxygen of publicity. Their only remaining readers are an echo-chamber of like-minded sycophants anyway.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:20am
  - 453mm
    
    To be fair, most blog comment sections are to some degree an echo chamber. That is why I admire milkmike and his ilk for showing up here. While I mostly disagree with them, they do on occasion make a point worth considering.
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:58am
    - Michael NZ
      
      on occasion I too have upticked them.
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:31am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  With respect, you must have a lot of time on your hands if you spend some of it reading crap like that with the level of attention that you clearly devote to it.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:44am
- pdm
  
  There is no doubt that Xavier etc etc is Cameron Slater and it seems to me that for the last 6 months at least he has been writing the majority of the posts under the SB psuedonym. The prose is the same.
  
  By way of comparison mrspdm and I have been married a few weeks short of 50 years and we still phrase the same things quite differently in writing. Not so at the BFD.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:46am
  - 453mm
    
    Congratulations (in a few weeks). That’s a good innings!
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:59am
  - Pete George
    
    It looks to me like posts under ‘SB’ have at least has input from Slater, if not written by him.
    
    But I question whether Xavier etc is Slater. He may well have posted under that name, but I’m fairly sure someone else has been using it.
    
    Remember that there were different styles of writing under ‘Slater’ at WO, and Dirty Politics proved that, showing the Simon Lusk was ghost writing under Slater’s name. Lusk doesn’t seem to mind destroying people – he has stated he gets a buzz out of it. But one of his biggest victims is Slater, and despite the damage done already he still appears to be using him.
    
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    February 22, 2020 8:11am
JibberJabber

Woman caught spreading the Colonavirus in New Zealand,
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/f6q1d2/chinese_tourist_caught_shitting_on_owners/
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February 21, 2020 8:11am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  No she’s not spreading corona virus you racist!
  She is either delivering a diversity dividend. Or leaving behind some cultural enrichment!
  Aotearoa for all!!
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:25am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Colona virus.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:53am
Happychappy

Have Stuff taken Jamie Lee Ross side by using his tape with Simon Bridges to imply that its could be Simon’s fault .
I myself can’t understand the content of the tape because in my opinion the conversation was in riddles and being a National supporter and a little deaf it was hard to understand.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/119681317/who-are-the-people-at-the-centre-of-the-sfo-political-donation-row
Between Clare Curran and Stuff trying to persuade the voter that Simon Bridges is the corrupt one they need to provide a better source of evidence than that load of drivel.
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February 21, 2020 8:16am
- JibberJabber
  
  This is how the Lugenpresse are spinning it, the AM show played an edited version of the Ross tape to JC this morning then asked why Simon didn`t say “this”, didn`t say “that”, in the 10th of a second he had to respond(on the clip they played).
  BTW, is Willie Jackson New Zealands biggest shit talker?
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:49am
  - stigie
    
    How could that guy be a Minister..?
    It beggers belief the talent in Labour !~ //
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:37am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Willie Jackson is Labour’s “comical ali”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf
    
    acting as spokesman for the Arab Socialist Ba’ath Party and Saddam’s government.
    NB…”Socialist”
    
    His pronouncements included claims that American soldiers were committing suicide “by the hundreds” outside the city, and denial that there were any American tanks in Baghdad, when in fact they were only several hundred meters away[citation needed] from the press conference where he was speaking and the combat sounds of the nearing American troops could already be heard in the background of the broadcast.
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    It’s an election year and they are desperate.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:06am
    - sooty
      
      Is he better or worse than that twit Twyford!
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:16am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        The difference, as I see it.
        Jackson…….an idiot who talks a big game.
        Twyford……an idiot given a job/power way beyond his actual capabilities. (promoted beyond his level of competence).
        Twyford definitely the more dangerous (to us) of the two.
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:20am
  - alloytoo
    
    Simon didn’t say a lot of things, mostly I imagine because he was friggin exhausted and sounds it.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:33am
  - hmmm82
    
    Lugenpresse, interesting history. So for over 100 years now, the public have been calling out MSM, factually or not, but only now thanks to the internet and PDT is ‘fake news’ a world-wide meme. That man demonstrates his genius in new ways every month.
    NB, every ‘opinion-former’ is a shit-talker, and WJ is definitely up there.
    
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    February 21, 2020 8:40pm
- Nickc2
  
  Clare Curran, that low life, she couldn’t even hold her portfolio. A fine Labour MP, NOT!
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:03am
  - Biscuit
    
    Clare um Curran um, a um Minister um of um Communications um who um couldn’t um utter um more um than um two um words um without um an um ‘Um’…
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:10am
    - alwyn
      
      And a very good imitation you are providing of the PM when she doesn’t have a script to read.
      Well done.
      
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      February 21, 2020 2:31pm
Than

Amy Klobucher is crying sexism over Mayor Pete doing as well or better than she is in the Democratic primary.

Oh, please.

How many candidates, both male and female, with similar resumes to Klobucher have already dropped out? Many of which would actually have been able to name the president of Mexico. And how many newcomers other than Mayor Pete, either male or female, are realistically in the race?

Buttigieg has earned his place in the top-tier of candidates. Falling back on the tired excuse of sexism is weak, cliched, and damages the fight against genuine discrimination.
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February 21, 2020 8:17am
- kloyd0306
  
  Who cares?
  It’s the Dems, you know, the same Dems that were hell bent on destroying a good man like Bret Kavanaugh just to get at Trump. Yes, those despicable, vile Dems.
  Sanders – socialist/slash communist, not even a member of the party.
  Bloomberg – ran as a Republican when mayor of NY.
  The Dems are in such disarray that their two leading candidates are not Democrats.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:07am
oldpark

Talk about the enemies within . Yes Wellington City Councillors and their naked hissy fits .
People like Fleur Fitzsimons, Jill Day, Iona Pannett are deliberately blocking every positive thing the new Mayor Andy Foster attempts .
Latest thing to be rubbished is the promise of Free Parking on Sunday in Wellington City.
Yes that was one reason why Andy Foster outed the waste of space Justin Lester and got voted in . He promised free Sunday parking .
To hear the mentioned hissy fit Councillors say they oppose the Mayors’ Promise is a bloody disgrace. Seems they want Their Labour Party comrade Justin Lesters’policies to stay intact .
Especially people like Jill Day who was virtually an also ran in her friend Justin Lesters’term of being Mayor.
Now Jill Day a so called “Independant” Councillor from Tawa seems to be still representing Lester like he was still the Mayor instead of representing Wellingtons’ Ratepayers .
Seems people like her and Fitzsimons and Pannett are quite keen to keep Wellington stagnating in the mold of the past Mayor Lester .After all why shouldn’t Wellington Ratepayers get a fair go . Especially since the mentioned hissy fit we know best Wellington Councillors are creaming Circa $100,000 plus . What ever for, keeping Wellington City a basket case by everything Andy Foster tries to do, gets voted down or not at all .
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February 21, 2020 8:26am
- freethinker
  
  To Wellingtonians and Jaffas remember – if you vote for shit don’t complain about the stench. A similar stench is brewing in Christchurch and I looked for the connection – I found it Labour uber left wing shites in charge.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:01am
  - hullkiwi
    
    If Auckland’s current weather lasts too much longer all of NZ will suffer Auckland’s shite for quite some time.
    
    You see my Wellington friends, Auckland has been growing and the dumb ass politicians who run the city have neither been investing or encourage central government politicians to invest in the infrastructure the upper North Island really needs. I am talking about:
    1. Additional fresh water reservoirs;
    2. Sewerage system expansion; and
    3. New electricity sources.
    
    Auckland does not need LRT, cycleways, skypath or SeaPath.
    
    Auckland’s current consumption of water has its dams at between 60% to 70% full (not good as sufficient rain doesn’t start coming until April/May). Auckland is putting pressure on the Waikato and Lake Taupo. The consequence will be if temperatures full suddenly in May/June creating sudden higher demand for electricity, hydro capacity will not be what is required, especially if we experience a severe or prolonged cold period before the Winter rains come. This means heavier use of Huntly or even alternatives of load sharing is required. There is also an assumption the South will have sufficient electricity capacity to transfer northwards. So, a lot of gambling is being done that the current dry spell will end soon and does not become a new norm (which I do not believe will be the case).
    
    However, if people don’t do some real thinking soon about what infrastructure is really needed in the upper North Island, our lightweight, inept politicians will not be able to cope with the shite storm that will befall them in the not too distant future.
    
    All because they let Auckland continue to grow without investing in the infrastructure that is and has been required for some years.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:23am
    - Nickc2
      
      You are right Hullkiwi, Politicians and in particular Auckland Council are more interested in building edifices unto themselves (railway lines, cycle ways and bridge walks and parks etc). None of them including the Mayor would have an eff-ing clue about essential infrastructure.
      IMHO, you can’t keep building houses and apartment buildings to house more people without upgrading/creating: roads, footpaths, electricity supply and distribution, water supply and distribution, refuse collection and disposal, schools and associated ancillaries, hospitals and ambulance services and policing etc.
      Forget the ego trips you councilors and politicians, concentrate on what you were put in your positions to do FFS.
      
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      February 21, 2020 2:12pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Nockc2, precisely. I know the UK is woke, but before they now develop anywhere Brits now have to do an environmental impact assessment, that covers all the infrastructure you listed.
        
        Think about it, Auckland has doubled in population over the past 30 years, other than schools, roads and pumping water from the Waikato and a bus way. What resilience has been built into Auckland’s water, sewerage or electricity systems – the truth is six tenths of nothing. This will not only put pressure on Auckland, but all of the upper North Island.
        
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        February 21, 2020 5:56pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Huge Wuflu suddenly revealed in Iran. 2 dead officially, at least 20 dead unofficially (from doctors on scene), no ability to test or screen through most of Iran. At least 1000’s already infected. No chance of stopping spread in middle east. This is the end of hope for containment. The 3rd world is going to be devastated.
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February 21, 2020 8:33am
- Random T Person
  
  How will we tell?
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:42am
- Doubledimp
  
  We could always foment mischief by broadcasting that bacon has ingredients that ward off corona virus, and watch certain religions grapple with the dilemma that entails.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:01am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Why just the third world, it will spread anywhere appropriate measures are not put in place.
  Sure it will kill more in poorer countries.
  Singapore copped it 2003 and this time, a strategic air hub. 85 cases no deaths.2003 8 deaths from memory.
  Anything recycling air looks like it will spread this.
  Apathetic governments that sit on their hands will expose their citizens, has nothing to do with just the third world.
  What is the ability to test in NZ?
  I would think Samoa is taking it way more seriously than NZ.
  I would say the response worldwide has been excellent, only a handful out of China if you take out the diamond princess. 634 infected with 14 new cases 2 deaths, next is South Korea 104 with 1 death
  The cruise industry in for very hard times, punters have to deal with more than the obligatory bugs off the smorgasbord.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:05am
  - Clyde
    
    I see the Diamond Princess is due to be starting up on a new cruise at the end of the month. Apparently it will be sanitised. Quick question, would you book a cruise on this ship?
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:14am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Based on it having more coronavirus cases than the entire world except China, that would be a no.
      If you are going to get marooned on a ship however Japan is the go, 634 cases with only 2 deaths from ship.
      Will be interesting to see if it keeps spreading in the Australian repatriation flight punters. Pretty much all the pax’s relocated from Wuhan to Christmas Island are in Australia corona free.
      Cruising is about to make 2003 look expensive, we had a state room for 10 days for $400 each.
      
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      February 21, 2020 9:30am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Corona Virus, reason 6372 not to go on a Cruise ship.
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:05am
      - Biscuit
        
        Not a fan of Cruising, Greg.
        
        (THAT sort of Cruising too, ha…)
        
        I fly to destinations.
        
        Worst case scenario: the plane crashes, I die. Quickly…
        
        But, if I’m on a boat, the bloody thing sinks, s-l-o-w-l-y, and I drown with Celine Dion warbling in my ears…
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:14am
      - Michael NZ
        
        Greg
        Which is a pity, as it is a good value option for Holidays.
        We’ve done 2, in West Med and Alaska and they were both excellent.
        The Alaska one a Princess boat and apart from the whinging Americans, it was great.
        http://www.Vacationstogo.com is the website offering cheap deals as they keep track of every boat on the planet, worth just looking at dates and areas from time to time.
        Our West med week from Rome cost $673 pp incl bed/food/travel. We spent half the same on the booze and day trips. But great value. 11:50
        
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        February 21, 2020 11:53am
    - Inandout
      
      Clyde, we all watched the Death Star, now we have a Death Cruiser. This must be why travel agents are falling over themselves trying to sell ‘wonder cruises’ at discounted rates. Personally, I will give cruises a 12 month avoidance.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:04am
      - sooty
        
        What’s the bet that ship will be up for sale shortly!
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:19am
    - Muzza M
      
      Thanks Biscuit, that is so funny.
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:57am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    International air travel will be near zero soon. Probably stay that way for months or even a year depending on patchiness of wuflu spread. International tourism will be non-existant.
    
    Wuflu in China has more than a million infected. 10’s of thousands dead, and will run through rest of PRC population in next 3 months killing 10’s of millions.
    
    And now it is blooming in middle east (big outbreak in Iran), which will end up killing many more millions as it spreads through region.
    
    We are in the quiet before the storm
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:40am
    - Inandout
      
      UN, we have holidayed overseas for years while ignoring our beautiful country. We will travel local for a while.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:06am
      - sooty
        
        Yes but have we been importing it?
        
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        February 21, 2020 10:20am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    China’s quarantining isn’t working. They are enforcing confinement in apartment blocks, and rounding up anyone with symptoms and forcing them into massive shared facilities where everyone inevitably gets infected even if they weren’t.
    
    Those locked in apartments are starving, and are resorting to flushing rubbish down toilets as normal rubbish systems aren’t working. Sewers are blocking up and overflowing with infectious shit – further spreading the virus.
    
    Being locked in a building with infected people just ensures that everyone gets infected.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:00am
- freethinker
  
  No mention by MSL (Liars) of Africa where China has a massive influence and many Chinese Nationals in situ. The whole African continent has a highly fragile health system and the likelihood of an epidemic is very high with little to stop it rampaging through its population.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:06am
- Wangas Feral
  
  Here we are still quarantining people for 14 days when it is now known that people can be asymptomatic for three or four weeks. We have a Chinese guy at work who has self quarantined at home for two weeks since returning from the holidays and is back at work. He coughed today and half the office looked at each other with some concern.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:53am
KevO'Brien

A good analysis of the nature of socialism-
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/02/democratic-socialist-government-it-even-legal-jason-d-hill/
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February 21, 2020 8:38am
- 453mm
  
  “What exactly is your ‘fair share’ of what someone else has earned?”
  
  “Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism — by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.”
  
  Damn.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:11am
  - Ian Boag
    
    My share (from today’s taxpayers) is about $400/week – because I am old and still have a pulse. There are lots more like me coming on stream …. 🙂
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:58am
    - Michael NZ
      
      Ian
      I don’t count the old age pension as a benefit. 🙂
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:56am
  - Michael NZ
    
    453
    Thomas Sowell
    There fixed the first for you.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:56am
    - 453mm
      
      Yes, sources were cited in Kev’s linked article.
      
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      February 21, 2020 1:05pm
Sydney Alvarado

This needs to be brought under control. The only runway at our major airport breaking up. WTF?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/02/airline-association-raises-serious-concerns-over-third-world-auckland-runway.html
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February 21, 2020 8:46am
- sooty
  
  With less flights to Australia now with the flu, that’ll help with fixing the runway!
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:04am
- Ed Snack
  
  Airport company is responsible for that, prioritizing profits short term – almost certainly related to executive bonuses. Shareholders will pay eventually and should be looking really hard at why the situation was allowed to get to this stage.
  
  I wonder though, if it is possible to fix without a shutdown for at least a reasonable period, and how would Auckland cope with no runway for an extended period.
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:44am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Ed, it is called prioritising the dividend for the shareholders ie Auckland Council and the Ontario Twachers Pension Fund.
    
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    February 21, 2020 6:00pm
  - hmmm82
    
    The obvious answer (sack the board and senior management, build a second runway quickly, then fix the first properly) won’t happen for many reasons relating to our mix of socialism and tribalism, common in most 3rd world countries. Who could have seen this coming? Just bad luck. The tax-takers will be screaming the govt. has to do something so their tax-payer subsidised holidays don’t get interfered with. The crony capitalist’s will work behind the scenes to make it happen. The greenmailers and brownmailers will put their fingers on the wheel until paid to let things move forward, and the socialists will accept a significant donation to interfere and ‘appoint’ a suitable contractor, who will take as long as possible to maximise variations to contract, and keep the bureaucrats employed. All in the least corrupt country in the world.
    A Martian would think the RMA was designed to make sure everybody got to skin the taxpayer.
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:01pm
Happychappy

Jacinda Ardern says Labour is checking its donation records in the wake of the SFO case.
You shouldn’t have to check your as your large Donars you should know
Yiken Zhengis a wealthy businessmen known for his large donations and you recieved a similar donation from him for the people in ChristChurch involved in the March 15 terror attacks.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12310391
This seems just like the sexual assaults from someone then working in the PM’S office deny and decieve until all the facts are found and then hope the story will have been forgotten, this is Labours ethos.
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February 21, 2020 8:49am
- kevn
  
  @Happy… Checking = hiding.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:08am
- Nickc2
  
  If it emerged and was proven in court that any of the Chinese accused donated to the Labour Party and the donation was incorrectly handled, it could be very messy for Cindy and her lot.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:20am
  - curry4me
    
    To some extent it would. However; the MSM would be reluctant to ask Hugzilla the hard questions.
    
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    February 21, 2020 12:14pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Shock Horror Curry! Are you suggesting our MSM are biased? How dare you?
      
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      February 21, 2020 2:26pm
      - curry4me
        
        Yup! They’re the print and broadcast arms of labour, and the ‘Greens’.
        
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        February 21, 2020 6:26pm
Captain Mainwaring

Can any of the legal eagles on here speculate as to any possible reasons why the scumbag who killed Grace Millane gets permanent name suppression along with suppression of the reasons for this?

[Mod: No, please do NOT speculate here – there are suppression orders in place.}
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February 21, 2020 8:49am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Not a legal eagle but………
  ??????????????????????????????????????????
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:54am
- john1234
  
  One possibility is that he is up on other charges relating to other victims, that have yet to see court.
  
  If so they do not want those cases tainted by the Millane trial. That could help get the evil bastard off.
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:58am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Thank you, never thought of that.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:28am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes, he’s also facing charges for killing off Winston Peter’s chances of re-election come 19 September. (sarc)
      
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      February 21, 2020 2:19pm
- notreadyet
  
  His father is a judge ?
  
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  February 21, 2020 8:59am
  - sooty
    
    He has labour party membership!
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:22am
    - Ruahine
      
      Attends Labour summer camps.
      
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      February 21, 2020 10:59am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  The worlds worst kept secret.
  Cannot think why this deviate got name suppression but after the antics with the convicted kiddie fiddler nothing surprises me.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:09am
- SGA
  
  [Mod: No, please do NOT speculate here – there are suppression orders in place.}
  
  Is it ok to ask for the general, generic type of reasons that may lead a Judge to granting such a name suppression? There must be some sort of general legal guidelines?
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The suppression order surely cannot relate to examining a Court’s reasoning. The name of the parties are irrelevant but the action of the Court appears perverse. Perhaps the Crown will appeal.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:19am
  - peterwn
    
    Read john1234 comment above. Suppression of reason as well as name makes complete sense in such an instance.
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:22am
    - peterwn
      
      RNZ reports at sentencing that suppression is until further order of the Court which is different from ‘permanent’.
      
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      February 21, 2020 12:50pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Fair enough Mod, I should have asked a generic question.
  But when he gets to Pare, it won’t take long before the other inmates work out who he is.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:31am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    In Pare they’re probably reading UK papers on their cell phones anyway.
    
    As far as suppressing the reason for the suppression, I cannot even guess why that would happen. But if we ever find out, I expect it will be such a pathetically weak justification that none of us would have even guessed a judge might find it convincing.
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:43am
- rererangihirihiri
  
  I believe it is because the dirtbag is facing numerous other charges that are set down to be heard mid year.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:51am
  - Swifty
    
    That makes sense.
    
    Releasing his name now may prejudice a fair trial for him later.
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      Irrelevant really as he has now been sentenced to life with a minimum of 17 years so anything extra will be consecutive unless the judge finally decides to implement strikes 1, 2 and 3 in one hit ……. Fat chance 😉
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:04am
      - Swifty
        
        Nothing to do with sentence Tall Man, more to do with giving the defence a legitimate point of appeal in future trials – that a jury could not be impartial if they knew the guy in the dock was a convicted woman killer.
        
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        February 21, 2020 12:21pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I get that Swifty but unless it is another murder there is no way there will be any increase in prison time even if convicted,
        
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        February 21, 2020 4:17pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      If so, it would have been helpful for the Judge to have commented to that effect. It wouldn’t take many words and need not be prejudicial.
      
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      February 21, 2020 11:22am
    - tavita
      
      The details that have been released will identify him in any subsequent trial.
      
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      February 22, 2020 3:10am
- 453mm
  
  This gem from stuff yesterday:
  
  The headline:
  Why Grace Millane’s murderer still won’t be named after he is sentenced.
  
  …and buried in the word soup:
  Even the reasons for the suppression order are suppressed, meaning media cannot report why he still can’t be named.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:14am
- rightoverlabour
  
  It’s a waste of time. The British press don’t give a shit about our stupid suppression orders.
  
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  February 21, 2020 5:32pm
notreadyet

His father is a judge
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February 21, 2020 9:00am
- Lizziep
  
  notreadyet, Are you sure about that? I cannot believe there is suppression, but am not sure that is the case. I could be wrong of course.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:00am
- Inandout
  
  notready, I believe you have already alluded to ‘why he can’t be named’.
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:36am
Jack5

Now that Sonny Bill Williams’s sports career is heading towards sunset, his PR team is flat out building him into a celebrity.

In Stuff today, it’s stated that the BBC, New York Times, CNN, Toronto Sun and even the South China Morning Post were among some 80 media outlets that covered his arrival at the the Toronto rugby league team, Wolfpack.

Then is added:” … an astounding 765 million readers consumed the seismic signing news in one form or another.”

First, 80 outlets would be the result of an agency or agencies distributing the report. Second his PR team (and Stuff) are telling us that 765 million readers “consumed” the news. Typical readers of newspapers do not read every item. So 765 million readers of the Wolfpack item is PR hype.

And the signing was “seismic”. It probably had some passing novelty value. Rugby league generating “seismic news” in North America? C’mon.

The media are relaying PR hyperbole.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/119695535/sonny-bill-williams-generates-threetimes-more-hits-than-ufc-star-conor-mcgregor
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February 21, 2020 9:04am
- SGA
  
  his PR team is flat out building him into a celebrity
  
  I imagine that the PR team of the Wolfpack is right behind this as well (perhaps even leading the charge). If it puts more bums on their seats, as it were…
  Same sort of thing, albeit at a minor level, as US soccer teams wringing every ounce of publicity for signing a prominent footballer in the twilight of their career (e.g., David Beckham or Zlatan at the LA Galaxy).
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:15am
lastmanstanding

The ferocity of the Australian bush fires were down to two factors.

1. The excess fuel load.
2. The lack of fire breaks.

Aboriginal elders have for decades been telling Governments both local and central that in the old says in winter they did both 1 and 2 in the areas they were living.

The reasons it was not done.

1. To save money. I suggest the cost of putting out the fires plus the loss of property let alone the loss of lives far outweighs the cost of taking remedial action.

2. To appease the Greens.

Of course we have seen this madness here although not with loss of life.
That was the Greens insisting that untreated timber was used in building construction and the leaky building scandal.

Politicians and civil servants continually allow ideology to rule over logic and common sense.

And thats why I treat them all with the contempt they deserve.
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February 21, 2020 9:07am
Rocky Jnr

From a friend in the Police…..There is a very good reason, all be revealed later in the year. Certainly not because he has connections.
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February 21, 2020 9:09am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  A person may be unable to get a fair trial if convictions for other offending is known.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:53am
  - G152
    
    Can we get a trial for the labor touchee feelie fellow??
    Any sort, even a fair one would do and a name might not go astray
    
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    February 21, 2020 10:34am
- mark15
  
  Reason for what,Rocky?
  11.04
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:04am
- Michael NZ
  
  But will Name Suppression lapse at that time.
  
  Couldn’t it have been temporary for a period?
  
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  February 21, 2020 12:29pm
Gravelroad

9am newstalkzb news: an “expert” working for the Helen Clark Foundation telling us why we should be voting for the cannabis reforms at election time.
Second time in the last little while where we have seen Ms Clark’s authoritative views shared to the peasants by the Foundation’s media machine.
Seems as though this Foundation is going to have an increasing influence on Labour’s election campaign. OK?
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February 21, 2020 9:15am
- kevn
  
  @Gravel… Might just be a negative influence on labours campaign.
  Shower heads/flouro flicker (most awful) light bulbs history.
  Just go away hellun.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:35am
- Jules99
  
  Who donates to this foundation, I wonder?
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:22am
- greybeard
  
  I sent Kate Hawkesby an email this morning after listening to her talking with the head of the NZ Drug Foundation:
  “I heard your interview with Ross Bell this morning, and also your extended thoughts on the topic of Cannabis legalisation and the brief comments by Mike Hosking just before 6am.
  
  All very good items, but a bit wasted at that time of the morning.
  
  Any chance of you having these replayed later in the day, some time next week ?
  
  I am very worried that Helen Clark, either through references to her ‘Foundation” or through direct contact with her by the MSM, has been getting an extraordinary amount of airtime recently.
  
  No doubt to compensate for the increasingly bad performances by the “Prime Minister”.
  
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  February 21, 2020 1:45pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Sorry, but if it is pumping out material favouring Labour/govt policy, that equals donations to Labour!
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:37pm
Greg Ettridge

Victoria does not legislate fire breaks, WA does.
Here is good example of why Victoria is a tinder box waiting to happen
Small CFA forbidden to do burn because they only had one truck with flashing lights, used own vehicles.
Meanwhile Red Cross are sitting on a huge nest egg of donated money for the next disaster.
Sums it up nicely.
Millions is wasted on useless air bombers instead putting up with back burning.
Victoria is now regularly back-burned by nature and arsonists, it doesn’t appear to be the best solution.
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February 21, 2020 9:17am
oldpark

Still trying to gage what type of rant Greg O’connor MP for Ohariu was raving on about regarding the huge changes to the Residential Tenancy Act .
Seems he thinks the idea that a Landlord can’t get rid of a Tenant who becomes a pest in any given Neighbourhood is a good one .. Sounds like he is not against the Landlord being virtually a prisoner to legislation until after jumping through many hoops and costs he might finally get shot of trouble making Tenant . What a bloody indictment of Lie-bour/Greens /NZ First should such a punitive idea become law . Also how about the proposed $100,000 fine against Landlords should they step out of line endeavouring to protect their investment against unruly tenants .
Hard to believe that any mum and dad rental Landlord would or could give a vote to any of the mentioned parties ,especially the ranting MP Greg O’Connor “Ohariu”who agrees with no more legal rights without very expensive costs for the people who make rentals available.Yes the Landlords .
Who the **** would be a Landlord.
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February 21, 2020 9:29am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “Who the **** would be a Landlord.”
  Socialists, thats who……(gvt control of everything)
  But wait, didn’t they try that already?
  got a couple of hundred houses built, spectacularly expensive and in the wrong place?
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:51am
- kevn
  
  @old… One landlord/property owner I know is happy’ish, because the rent is guaranteed to be paid per WINZ. Not so happy with the occupants and the hangers-on with their dogs. No damage yet, but considering the calibre of tenants and mates, it is a matter of when not if.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:31am
- peterwn
  
  May be unwise comments. There may be quite a few Labour leaning landlords (I know one) in his electorate. I wonder if Helen Clark still has a portfolio of rental properties.
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:28am
Hugh Pavletich

CHINA … CORONAVIRUS …

Maersk operates massive container ships. It’s canceled 50 sailings over coronavirus … CNN Business

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/20/business/maersk-earnings-coronavirus/index.html

Coronavirus outbreak in China spurs supply chain shifts that began during trade war … Huileng Tan … CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/20/coronavirus-outbreak-spurs-supply-chain-shifts-started-by-us-china-trade-war.html
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February 21, 2020 9:39am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  As manufacturing moves from PRC to other SE Asian countries these do not have ports big enough to handle the 20k+ TEU vessels.
  
  Hope they have lay up orts in mind
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:10am
Jack5

A Radio New Zealand article spells out arguments for reducing freedom of speech.

Consider this alongside Radio NZ and TVNZ’s dream of a merger into a Pravda-scale State news giant, complete with extensions into print media.

Here’s a conundrum: if we believe in free speech can we condemn a view opposing free speech? I believe we can when the view is sponsored by an agent of the potential enemy of free speech – the State.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/insight/audio/2018734855/free-speech-vs-hate-speech-the-government-s-dilemma
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February 21, 2020 9:39am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Of course we can condemn a view opposing free speech. That’s not a conundrum. You never violate someone’s freedom of speech just by disagreeing with them.
  
  The essence of freedom of speech is that speech should not be prevented using force. That includes everything the goverment does with tax revenue acquired by force. If you’re not using force, you’re not violating anyone’s freedom of speech.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:54am
  - Jack5
    
    You are right, Nigel. Poor argument by me.
    
    But I wonder whether agencies of the State, which itself sets any limits on free speech, should be free to argue for, or promote arguments for, tighter controls on what we can say, write, text. Is this the tail swinging the cat?
    
    The State is considering merging Radio NZ and TVNZ into a large news organisation, with links into the print media. With newspapers in rapid decline, this would dominate our media. I find it a little sinister that, at the same time, Radio NZ in effect is helping promote tighter controls on speech.
    
    Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that the person who is probably the country’s leading multiculturism advocate, Paul Spoonley, of Massey University, which is definitely not committed to freedom of speech, supports tighter controls on speech. Spoonley puts shielding of minorities from being offended above our freedom of speech.
    
    Massey has a bad record in freedom of speech. It wants its voice heard, but not the voice of those it disagrees with.
    
    So we have two State institutions on the face of it supporting controls on free speech. These are both institutions in which freedom of speech should be at the core of what they do and what they stand for.
    
    Just how much leash could a state committed to freedom of speech allow to State arms that oppose this?
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:21am
Captain Mainwaring

Gets the New Zealander of the year gong for lumbering us with a stone age language.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/119676254/jennifer-wardlealand-named-2020-new-zealander-of-the-year

Words fail me.
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February 21, 2020 9:45am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  Jennifer Who?
  
  22 0
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  February 21, 2020 9:58am
  - Tall Man
    
    Virtual virtue signalling………
    
    Just enough effort to get “noticed”….
    
    10 2
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    February 21, 2020 10:57am
- cas
  
  Not known outside Auckland. Whereas peter beck……
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:32am
  - Jack5
    
    Agreed. The State bank insults Beck, a stand-out technology entrepreneur, by placing him second to this little-known actress. Can a PC bank like this ever foot it with the Aussies?
    
    Kiwbank, to be consistent, might now rename the award “Aotearoan” of the year, or some such. Kiwibank might also look at its own name. How about Kiwipēke?
    
    What would they call someone from a country renamed Aotearoa? Aotearorts? Aots? Maybe just Rorts?
    
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    February 21, 2020 11:30am
- LTA1955
  
  It certainly does when a legal argument is put into Te Reo…….unintelligible
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:42am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Te Reo is an official language–test it in Court some time for its lack of root words. It worked in 1835 pre-dinner judicial hearings at the Pa.
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:29am
- Inandout
  
  CM, even the large bone around JWL’s can’t hide the fact she lives well away from those suburbs that suffer continual welfare-fed parties. Go to the depths of South Auckland or Canons Creek JWL and spend a week among the natives.
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:43am
Padriv Ustoev

No she’s not spreading corona virus you racist!
She is either delivering a diversity dividend. Or leaving behind some cultural enrichment!
Aotearoa for all!!
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February 21, 2020 10:30am
TWEEDSE

According to Newshub, Jacinda has been hailed for opening a man’s beer. Who would have thought it. Her CV is getting quite impressive. Beer opener, serving fish n chips, barbecuing sausages at Waitangi. An obvious choice to be an appointed Prime Minster.
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February 21, 2020 11:04am
- stigie
  
  She will be loved on the 15th March.
  Fucking nauseating !~
  
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  February 21, 2020 11:37am
JibberJabber

A Darwin Participation Certificate…
https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/f6z7ye/the_stupidity_level_is_beyond_measure/

[Mod: Warning, graphic injury content ]
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February 21, 2020 11:13am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Urgh, as a motorcyclist, that wasn’t fun to watch.
  
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  February 21, 2020 12:22pm
  - sooty
    
    Was his head still inside the helmet?
    
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    February 21, 2020 4:58pm
Surely Knott

Te Reo is integral to Maori culture and the history of NZ, so I think it is something we should treasure and protect just like other cultures and languages. It’s common to say Bula and Vinaka when you get to Fiji. You’re encouraged to use the language without judgement. It’s not a political statement it’s their language, culture and part of their national pride. It’s more a way of saying Welcome – you’re in our unique country – experience our food, our language, our people. What is sad is that learning the Maori Language has become so politicised and that it’s become a symbol of wokeness and ever increasing political pressure that seems to be happening at the moment.
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February 21, 2020 11:24am
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND … The Christchurch City Council … The financially reckless forced amalgamation disaster …

… Determined to lose this years September general election for Labour …

… When are they going to rid the place of the trougher trash and put commissioners in for long overdue structural change and flushing ? …

OPINION … Christchurch ratepayers being egregiously pumped by suburban spendathon … Mike Yardley … The Press

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/119575063/chch-ratepayers-being-egregiously-pumped-by-suburban-spendathon

OPINION: The battle lines are being drawn at the city council with last week’s draft annual plan meeting vividly exposing the chasm that has ruptured around the table. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… The sick culture … November report …

Top council staff ‘manipulated’ reports to hide bad news from councillors and the public … Tina Law and Dominic Harris … The Press

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/117429451/damning-report-alleges-christchurch-city-council-staff-kept-negative-information-secret-manipulated-reports
.
.
… There are two types of local government in this world … the small and the bad … which explains why the adjoining smaller Councils of Waimakariri and Selwyn are ‘normal’ …

… Following the earthquakes, these smaller and therefore functional units of local government ‘saved’ Greater Christchurch …

… From mid – 2012 … following the 1 February 4,500 strong Peoples Protest …

Christchurch: The Way Forward … Hugh Pavletich … Scoop News

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1206/S00251/christchurch-the-way-forward.htm
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February 21, 2020 11:26am
lastmanstanding

Grace Mullanes killer has been jailed for at least 17 years but still not named and the reasons not given.

WHY? Whats been hidden from the public even though some of us knew his name as soon as he was arrested via the good ole UK MSM.

I smell a rat. A big rat. Why is he being protected?

Open Justice. You must be joking!!!!!!!
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February 21, 2020 11:32am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Center for Disease Control is grappling with a massive outbreak of Trump Derangement Syndrome among Democrats and the mainstream media following pre-race festivities on Sunday at the Daytona 500. Tell me Trump will not win in Nov.
https://www.wnd.com/2020/02/trumps-lap-daytona-500-sets-off-left/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostSideSharingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons&fbclid=IwAR3k4Vcvk5z7HLiHMgUSc5BkFE97SEuYk4CoBLEcGkemrhfuCLbbezVn-qU
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February 21, 2020 11:39am
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/02/19/report-fbi-raids-joe-bidens-brother-linked-company-at-center-of-influence-peddling-allegation/

I guess not everyone in the deep state willbe doing a perp walk, followed by 99 to life in the federal pen just yet. It’s a start though.
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February 21, 2020 11:43am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A38ckEAjciE

Dominic Cummings has spies everywhere. If the civil service was really neutral, this would not be neccessary.
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February 21, 2020 11:44am
lastmanstanding

Re the Grace Mullane killer. Having read the comments the Judge could have said his name was suppressed pending other matters that may come before the Court. That would have covered it off. Instead we get the old bull shit Trust us we know what we are doing. Well Pal. That was OK in the 20th century not in the 21st century.

Disclosure and Transparency are the name of the game now. Get with the Programme.
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February 21, 2020 11:56am
- peterwn
  
  Talking in general terms (not referring to this case), which is better – a conviction down the track, or a case falling over because of arguments that jurors are ‘tainted’ by previous knowledge of the activities of the accused.
  
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  February 21, 2020 3:08pm
  - hmmm82
    
    I find it hard to imagine that if selected for jury duty, my first reaction is to check what hi-profile cases are coming up, and who the people involved are. I am sure even judges read and watch news.
    Wouldn’t that mean every trial is tainted except those ‘juried’ by ‘Oblivians’?
    
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    February 21, 2020 9:18pm
JibberJabber

So Grace Millanes murderer gets 17 years before he is eligible to be let out to do it again.
Tell us again how the legal system in this Shithole isn`t irreparably broken and corrupt, Andrew.
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February 21, 2020 12:03pm
- fernglas
  
  Eligible, not a guarantee. Very few murderers get out on their first go at parole, and given that this unworthy piece of excrement seems unlikely to acknowledge his wrongdoing he could be there for a hell of a lot longer.
  
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  February 21, 2020 12:54pm
- MCos
  
  The sentence was entirely predictable.
  It wouldn’t have made any difference which government was in power.
  
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  February 21, 2020 3:24pm
Tasman Terror

Jacinda: “Today’s news is tomorrow’s fish ‘n chip papers.”
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February 21, 2020 12:13pm
Gravelroad

Breaking news:
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern features on Time Magazine cover

Another day out coming for the Turn Arderners?
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February 21, 2020 12:14pm
Wired-one

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12310518

Am I living in the Twilight zone or something. Our most incompetent PM ever gets treated like a saint. When are people going to wake up? God its disheartening for those of us with at least half a brain.
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February 21, 2020 12:15pm
- Inandout
  
  Wired-one, many books have been written about how kiwis love being led like sheep.
  
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  February 21, 2020 12:58pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Other people who have appeared on the cover of Time Magazine include Mussolini, Hitler (man of the year in 1939), Goebbels, Goring, Hirohito, Stalin, Himmler, Mao Zedong, Juan Peron, Batista, Khruschev, Malenkov, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Lenin, Bonnie and Clyde, Yasser Arafat, Spiro Agnew, Big Bird, Brezhnev, Ayatollah Khomeni…..
  
  She’s in good company there!
  
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  February 21, 2020 1:20pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Big Bird 😉
    
    8 0
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    February 21, 2020 4:14pm
DeepBlue

Jacinda has played the international Time magazine cover trick rather early in the election cycle. A few more overseas votes shifting from Green to Labour.
17 1
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February 21, 2020 12:27pm
- Nermal
  
  Time is a mere shadow of what it used to be. You no longer even see it at doctors’ waiting rooms
  
  12 1
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  February 21, 2020 3:41pm
  - Sacha
    
    I haven’t seen it at our local New World, but I’ll keep an eye out in case I have to turn . . . . . . . .
    
    3 0
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    February 21, 2020 8:55pm
- Philview
  
  The Time article said she had been an MP for a few months before coming leader when it was actually 9 years.
  
  5 0
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  February 21, 2020 6:00pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Well maybe a “few months” worth of work it just took her 9 years to deliver it 😉
    
    0 1
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    February 22, 2020 12:05am
Simon Gotlieb

Sustainable NZ not looking so sustainable right now.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/government/2020/02/21/1046935/resignations-allegations-swirl-within-sustainable-nz
4 1
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February 21, 2020 12:29pm
- Inandout
  
  SG, they have no wealthy backers unfortunately.
  
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  February 21, 2020 12:59pm
Nickc2

Peterwn-

Thanks, appreciated.
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February 21, 2020 1:54pm
Fletch

Pete Buttigieg’s brother-in-law, who is a pastor –

“Yeah, in the height of intellectual dishonesty for Pete to make claims that there’s no compatibility with being a Christian and voting for Trump. Pete, in fact, is the one who is pushing agendas and rhetoric that is against, clearly against Scripture.”

On abortion, Glezman said, “I’m just in a state of lament when you hear that we have someone running for commander in chief who can’t make a moral decision on whether to keep a child after it’s already been born or to have it killed. What kind of moral suggestions is he going to be [giving] if he can’t come to an understanding of that? It’s just, it’s alarming.”

He added, “Just everything that Pete is pushing is, it’s anti-God. I’m just going to be honest with you. Nothing lines up with Scripture for him to make cases like to say that you cannot be a Christian and vote for Trump. He’s the one that is openly contradicting God’s word over and over.”

Video at link – https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020/02/20/buttigiegs-brother-in-law-everything-pete-is-pushing-is-anti-god/

Says it all really. The video also highlights his so-called war record.
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February 21, 2020 2:19pm
DeepBlue

Just say Grace’s murderer is appearing before the courts again, I still don’t see how it is relevant to have name suppression maintained for the Grace conviction.

He could still have name suppression on any future arrest, so the public wouldn’t get to know he’d been charged again. Plus the next jury can be directed to ignore the conviction wrt Grace and make a decision on the facts presented in the hypothetical second trial.

What’s the worst that can happen? Convicted of another crime to serve concurrently.
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February 21, 2020 2:53pm
- Tall Man
  
  Yeah, I got my concurrents and consecutives confused this morning 🙂
  
  Either way, unless it is another murder it will not increase his time inside.
  
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  February 21, 2020 4:11pm
- Philview
  
  Maybe he was out on bail at the time courtesy of the Government’s changes to bail procedures. He did get a Strike 1. (Thanks for that David G!)
  
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  February 21, 2020 5:55pm
Fletch

The guy who created copy and paste for the computer has died….

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/20/creator-of-copy-and-paste-command-larry-tesler-dies-aged-74
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February 21, 2020 4:27pm
Fletch

Amazing stuff. For the Mandalorian mini series they created huge 360 degree LED screens that can have backgrounds actually placed onto them, so actors can see the location in real time instead of being surrounded by green screen and the shots added afterward in post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk&feature=emb_title
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February 21, 2020 4:35pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Incredible technology. You’ve got to wonder what’s coming next.
  
  Maybe someday this will play in your living room.
  
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  February 21, 2020 9:06pm
Fletch

So Jacinda is being lauded on the cover of the latest Time magazine. Along with her photo, a caption, “Know Us By Our Deeds”. Oh, we know you alright missy….

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/jacinda-ardern-makes-cover-time-magazine-marking-year-since-terrorist-attack
6 0
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February 21, 2020 5:21pm
- Fletch
  
  ‘Steve The Maori’ nails it on Facebook ?
  
  https://www.facebook.com/MAORIMADE/photos/a.438195996263113/2821449694604386/?type=3&theater
  
  5 1
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  February 21, 2020 7:39pm
- Nickc2
  
  She is a f’n disgrace. Anyhow, Time has become a Left Wing scandal rag since they glorified Obama. I used to love reading Time magazine, but not for about ten years.
  
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  February 21, 2020 10:38pm
Nostradamus

So who else thinks that Kiwiblog threads flow better without the trolls?
6 0
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February 21, 2020 7:59pm
- Swifty
  
  Heaps better.
  
  4 0
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  February 21, 2020 10:36pm
- Tall Man
  
  Trolls gone .. now the mods 🙂
  
  1 1
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  February 21, 2020 11:35pm

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