General Debate 09 February 2020

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Vallager

I could have sworn Jacinda had ended live streaming of acts of terror?
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February 9, 2020 8:08am
- Harriet
  
  “……Jacinda …..terror….”
  
  Reign of Terror was Hulun.
  
  Reign of Error.
  
  There fixed. 😎
  
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  February 9, 2020 12:04pm
  - pdm
    
    Excellent Harriet
    
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    February 9, 2020 7:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

WWF funds Ecothugs to beat and harass indigenous
villagers in the Congo Forests.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/feb/07/armed-ecoguards-funded-by-wwf-beat-up-congo-tribespeople
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February 9, 2020 8:09am
- cmm
  
  I used to be a WWF supporter. Past tense. Greenpeace too. Past tense.
  
  I wonder if Prince Phillip and David Attenborough would care to comment?
  
  According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Fund_for_Nature they’ve been beating up people for a few years now.
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:20am
  - mandk
    
    Same with Amnesty, Oxfam and others
    They have all become instruments for political activism.
    
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    February 9, 2020 8:50am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Support WWF Greenpeace?? Now who would of thought?
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:54am
    - cmm
      
      Why? There was once a time when these organisations genuinely did something useful.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:00am
      - Sacha
        
        As did the ‘Greens’
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:12am
      - sooty
        
        Not with Phill Twyford in charge. He was only there to eat someelses lunch!
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:17am
      - cmm
        
        Saha: Yes, I had some really interesting, thoughtful conversations with the “Real Greens” including quite a few highly rational exchanges with Nándor Tánczos.
        
        That all fell apart when Rod Donald died.
        
        Stephie: I used to vote Green back then too!
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:25am
    - Paulus
      
      And Forest & Birds.
      They are as far left as can be as a subsidiary of Greenpeace.
      Look at the front people and see where they came from.
      
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      February 9, 2020 12:58pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Violence is as violence does. Does the BBC promote WWF too?
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:23am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You mean the Guardian?
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:55am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Guardian I ignore: The BBC I deprecate for its active substitution of propaganda without science.
      
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      February 9, 2020 2:24pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  MW, the devil is in the detail. From your Guardian “MSM “link”
  
  Local Congolese WWF officials interviewed by the UNDP team “acknowledged the evidence of abuse against the Baku” by the guards, says the report. “Such occurrences were presented as isolated incidents due to the existence of a few bad apples among the ecoguards in what was otherwise a successful operation. A WWF staff member … explained that these incidences were occurring because of the psychological ramifications of putting someone in a uniform and giving him a gun, which for some men represents a licence to commit abuse.
  
  Of course, alternative ways may need to used to train these eco guards and conserving or saving local wild life> It is as though the word eco or conserving threatened species was an anathema to some people.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    So you are telling me that sometimes bad things happen when folks are given power without the intelligence or training to use that power wisely.
    
    You do realise this is a political blog, don’t you?
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:07am
    - cmm
      
      The Congolese have treated the Baka (aka pygmies) as vermin since forever.
      
      WWF supporting the Congolese to “manage” Baka people is pretty much a genocidal act.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:16am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        “genocidal act” ??
        
        Rubbish!
        
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        February 9, 2020 10:50am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Besides stephieboy, it’s not a “few isolated incidents due to a few bad apples”
    
    Damning UN investigation condemns WWF flagship project in Congo, reveals massive scale of abuses
    https://www.survivalinternational.org/news/12337
    
    and the WWF has a history of lousy Governance of it’s ecothugs in Africa and India.
    
    WWF accused of funding guards who torture and kill in poaching war
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-47444297
    
    and links to 6 other articles here
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/katiejmbaker/united-states-government-millions-wwf-guards-abuses
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:18am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Yes, it’s shameful isn’t it. Whatever the state of local law enforcement, communications infrastructure, cultural norms and available resources, WWF should play nicely with the poachers.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:31am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Just a joke is it, Albert Ross?
        Playing Shot-gun to stephieboy again are you?
        
        WWF authorities have known for Years that their staff were raping and killing people in the indigenous tribes of the Congo Forests (These folks aren’t poachers).
        
        A new and devastating investigation by Buzzfeed News has revealed that the charity’s director & board had detailed evidence of “widespread” atrocities being committed by rangers it funds and equips, but kept the information secret.
        
        It’s the latest finding from a Buzzfeed investigation that has brought to light a series of secret WWF reports, proving the organization has known for years that the rangers it funds in central Africa commit gross human rights abuses among the local population.
        
        https://www.survivalinternational.org/news/12247
        
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        February 9, 2020 10:52am
      - Tall Man
        
        Are you auditioning for the backup snakey position in case mikey is crook?
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:02am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        The joke is not what’s been going on the the Congo and doubtless other places around the world. That is terrible and a sad reflection of how very imperfect our world is in so many ways.
        
        What is a joke, however, is how very easy it is to judge with the benefit of hindsight, well-developed values and a good education, from the comfort of a rich and well administered country thousands of miles away.
        
        Yes, some of the so-called security guards are ignorant and unworthy of the position they’re in. Is the Congo so crawling with intelligent, well-educated and enlightened people that they can easily be spared for the task?
        
        Yes, approaches have been tried that turned out in practice not to work as well as others. Yes, some people could have made different decisions and given more urgent attention to different priorities. Yes, some people are incompetent, resources are inadequate, information insufficient and knowledge incomplete for the task at hand.
        
        Name any field of human endeavour for which that’s not the case.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:37pm
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      MW,
      
      “Armed poachers killing rangers who defend elephants in Congo park”
      
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fatal-firefights-plague-congo-park-where-poachers-hunt-elephants/
      
      Ideas to recifty this?
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:53am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Three are given in this article.
        Read it and figure things out for yourself.
        
        https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/elephant-poaching-falls-dramatically-africa
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:24am
      - cmm
        
        Geez Stephie you really are your own worst enemy.
        
        From your URL:
        “The poachers who attacked the rangers in Garamba, a UNESCO world heritage site, last month are believed to have come from South Sudan, just across the border. Other groups that have operated in Garamba include ivory hunters and militias from Sudan, and the Lord’s Resistance Army, a Ugandan rebel group led by Joseph Kony, who is accused of war crimes. The park has also reported incidents in which poachers killed elephants from helicopters.”
        
        So not Bakas then.
        
        The Garamba National Park is in the DRC, near the Uganda/ South Sudan borders.
        
        Not surprising this is going on with the warlords in Uganda and South Sudan nipping over the border to exploit the ivory.
        
        This is in a different country (DRC, not the Republic of Congo), about 1500km away from the area MW was talking about. Not a penny paid by the WWF in the Republic of Congo is going into the DRC to preserve Garamban elephants.
        
        On top of that, the Garamba is relatively open land (which most elephant populations prefer) while Baka are forest dwellers.
        
        So guess what? A complete slaughter of every Baka person in the world is not going to save one Garamban elephant.
        
        Please put a teenie tiny bit of effort into raising your game.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:03pm
JibberJabber

I reckon Woods is on the money,
https://www.dailywire.com/news/james-woods-thinks-nuclear-cockroach-hillary-clinton-has-solid-chance-to-become-2020-nominee

Like all Socialist Demagogues she has surrounded herself with deadbeat losers to make herself look good and will have dreams of riding in to the rescue of the party.
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February 9, 2020 8:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Well she threw Bernie under the bus last time
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:32am
- Colville
  
  nuclear cockroach…perfect ! 🙂
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:43am
cmm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12306788

Fuck off you sponges.

There is no way that the most successful player in an industry should be given corporate welfare to the tune of $40M. They have a corporate jet FFS!

There is no way any handouts should be secret. If you get corporate welfare then it should be public.
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February 9, 2020 8:10am
- peterwn
  
  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
  
  If you don’t ask you don’t get.
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:15am
  - tf78
    
    I wouldn’t mind just $1M – who should I ask?
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:44pm
    - peterwn
      
      Got a good business plan?
      
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      February 9, 2020 7:20pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  But opposing special treatment for the film industry is ‘hobbit hating’, or something.
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:29am
  - cmm
    
    Hobbits have had since 1937 to grow up.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:18am
- The Feed
  
  Depends.
  
  On the face of it, it sounds like welfare. However, if the taxpayer puts in $1 and gets $2 back, then I don’t see a problem.
  
  Agreed it should be transparent. We are the investors, after all.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:30am
  - cmm
    
    No, bullshit.
    
    There are only about 200k net tax payers in NZ. They each put in $200 here. Most of those are going to be small business owners etc.
    
    To argue for continuous corporate handouts you have to believe:
    1) The government has more information and skill at picking the winning strategy. When your whole front bench have not worked a real job or run a small business, that is a big ask.
    2) That taking $200 from a baker or electrician or whatever and giving it to a guy with a corporate jet is going to have a better outcome.
    
    Hmmm…
    
    While it is always easy to see the “visible actions” of the handouts (free tickets for PriNZess on the red carpet at the next movie release), it is not easy to see the “invisible actions” caused by the money being taken from the baker etc.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:25am
    - ISeeRed
      
      Only 200k net taxpayers? I don’t necessarily dispute this but what is the source?
      
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      February 10, 2020 10:25am
  - Harriet
    
    “….On the face of it, it sounds like welfare. However, if the taxpayer puts in $1 and gets $2 back, then I don’t see a problem….”
    
    If the returns are that good then why are taxpayers made to be investors – surely investors themselves could see the opportunity.
    
    THEY DON”T LIKE THE RISK !!!
    
    Yep — it’s welfare!!!!! 😎
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:13pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Harriet, investors don’t collect tax and a considerable part of the return is the tax on the incomes earned and gst on the products consumed.
      
      My understanding is that it way more than 2 for 1.
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:03pm
      - Harriet
        
        I was just answering the example that was posted above. There are no private investors due to the risk – or low returns.
        
        I understand what you are saying. Cheers.
        
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        February 9, 2020 2:26pm
Lizziep

I agree cmm, well done you for bringing this to our notice. Why would he need welfare from NZ govt? This is past ridiculous, when disclosing what the amounts are for theMinistry should disclose why they applied for them and what purposes they are being used for. And within a year an audit of where the funds were used and how/where and why. If you can ask for the money you can tell the NZ taxpayer where it was used.
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February 9, 2020 8:17am
Happychappy

John Armstrong reasons why he thinks Shane Jones won’t win the Northland seat in 2020.
Taking the seat off Matt King in Narthland Northland is not going to happen. There ain’t going to be any avalanche of tactical voting of the kind that were cast in the seat in 2015 and which tipped that in Peters lap.
Jones will be punting on opinion polls in the electorate making him the top contender to topple King – and the Labour Green vote collapsing in his favor.
These circumstances are very different in 2020, without help from Ardern’s corner, Jones candidacy is little more than a flag waving execise, so has he made the right call.https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-shane-jones-facing-uphill-battle-reclaim-northland-nz-first?auto=6103603602001
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February 9, 2020 8:18am
- cmm
  
  The reason people voted for WP in the by election was because:
  A) It “sent National a message”
  -without-
  B) Changing the balance of power in government.
  
  If the by election could have caused National to be toppled making way for a CoL, then they would not have voted WP.
  
  To think that they will vote the same in 2020 is ridiculous – the stakes are completely different in a general election.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:25am
  - John Warren
    
    You give the voters far too much credit for thinking tactically en masse. It just doesn’t happen like that. They were simply dumb enough to fall for Winston’s bullshit and waffle. He promised big things for Northland, and delivered nothing.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:44am
    - marcw
      
      This year Winston has the advantage of bigger, even huge promises – deep water port, dry dock, railway to Auckland, holiday highway, jobs for all and free houses. In spite of the fact that none of these except the holiday highway are economically viable, what’s not to like? And of course, so far, all they have done is cancel the holiday highway because that was National policy.
      
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      February 9, 2020 9:55am
      - Tarquin North
        
        The problem Shane the blowhard has is he has no idea what he’s talking about, so he throws cash and empty promises around. Whether the port moves or not won’t make a huge difference up here Northport is growing very quickly on it’s own. It is also worth remembering moving the port is a 30 year operation no matter how much money you throw at it. There is no point in shifting the port until the highway to Auckland is fixed. For some weird reason Jones want’s to build a four lane highway from Marsden Point to whangarei. Nobody can work out why, it would be nice but the business case for it would be about as good as a motorway from Dargaville to Ruawai. If they want to get into four laning they should head south through the Brynderwyns.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:18pm
    - cmm
      
      Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.
      
      Many, something like 50%, of 2017 NZF voters expressed buyer’s remorse because they thought they would be getting National with NZF “keeping them honest” on the side.
      
      With a clearer picture of the future, they would likely not have voted for NZF but for National and NZF would not have made threshold.
      
      Bridges has cut off the “Keep them honest” option. Now:
      Some will shift vote to National.
      Some will keep voting NZF (insufficient for threshold)
      Some will shift to Labour (but likely less than shift to National)
      Some will just stay home.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:32am
      - curry4me
        
        One or two that I know are looking at the New Conservatives. The other four at National.
        
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        February 9, 2020 8:58pm
  - Tarquin North
    
    What you are saying is right, but a lot of people seem to have forgotten just how unpopular Mike Sabin was at the time. He used to cruise around up north with his mates on harleys acting like a cross between Brian Tamaki and Jami Lee Ross. He turned up in the Houhora Pub one time and pretty much expected to be treated like royalty. I hear this wasn’t an isolated occurrence. He resigned because he was facing criminal charges but hung on for as long as he could. That did more damage to the National vote and helped Winston more than anything else. Matt King is an entirely different kettle of fish, a hard working likeable bloke well known and respected in Northland. He isn’t a blowhard like Jones but a quiet achiever and a good local M.P who puts his constituents first. With the amount of sludge that Winston has passed under the bridge since the last election and the total dishonesty and contempt he treated National with during the post election negotiations why would anyone vote NZF?
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:45am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Seems like we need more MPs like Matt King. If they are accountable and visible to their electorate then they must behave as full time good, effective people.
      
      If only list MPs had the same grass roots responsibilities.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:20am
  - BlairM
    
    This “Report” button on a small android phone is dangerous. I think I “reported” this comment entirely by accident.
    
    Anyway, Peters’ win did change the balance of power. It meant National no longer had a majority for RMA reforms, remember?
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:54am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      They did but needed the bow tied buffoon who fell over when Andrea Vance touched him in a ‘special way’
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:11pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Jacinda can scupper NZFirst’s Northland dreams with this statement:
  
  Ports of Auckland will not be moving to Whanagarei and PGF slush fund will cease on election night.
  
  No need to do any electorate deals. She could get very tired of Winston Peters’ antics in the next 8 months if he keeps pushing her and might want to see him gone as much as National. Therefore fighting a First Past the Post style election.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:56am
  - Tall Man
    
    Anything that threatens ardern $500K salary will be ignored. As long as he keeps her there, even completely powerless as she is, “what’s in it for wynston” and his team can do or say what they wish.
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:07am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Sure, but the stench of Winston’s antics can spread mighty quickly over Jacinda, especially if the polling for NZFirst is in freefall.
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:28pm
      - Wired-one
        
        Our media wont let any stink surround Ardern. They are her guardians and protectors.
        
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        February 9, 2020 3:41pm
- rockape
  
  Jones won’t win Northland. The vote at elections is pretty steady for Nats at around 17/18,000 . Jones has stood before for Labour and didn’t do too well. Last election King was a newbie, he isn’t any more, even if a deal is done I expect king to poll around the party vote and I don’t thing even will half Labour’s vote Jones will do as well as Winston’s last effort. Remember last time voters thought Peters would go with n
  National and keep them to the right, that myth has been exploded and a vote for NZ First IS a vote for Labour.
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:44am
- Paulus
  
  But the deal with Peters is to Ardern I’ll give you Ihumatao in return for your Labour people voting for Jones.
  There easy !
  
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  February 9, 2020 1:05pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    And any deal over Ihumatao is going to cause Labour and NZFirst party vote to nosedive. The country will get the parliament it deserves.
    
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    February 9, 2020 1:31pm
    - rockape
      
      And you think they all will? Plus how many NZ first voters from the right of the party will dump NZ First and vote National. My guess, about 40%.
      
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      February 9, 2020 3:25pm
  - rockape
    
    And you think they all will? Plus how many NZ first voters from the right of the party will dump NZ First and vote National. My guess, about 40%.
    
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    February 9, 2020 3:23pm
Yvette

And will they go back to calling it the New Zealand Broadcasting Corporation?

“The Government must ensure New Zealanders have a strong independent public media service for decades to come, which means ensuring public media assets are fit for the future and able to thrive amid the changing media landscape,” Mr Faafoi said.

“It’s well known that New Zealand’s media sector, both public and private, is facing unprecedented challenges with competition from the likes of Google and Facebook, declining revenue shares, and changes in when and how audiences access their information and entertainment.
“That presents risks for the future viability of New Zealand’s public broadcasting operators, RNZ and TVNZ, and the Government needs to address those risks.”

But considering all these seeming ‘external’ threats to changes in news and entertainment, why has this Labour Government omitted state funded and indeed the state commitment and stewardship of Maori Television from this same review?

I smell a kiore in the woodpile
________

• Former Prime Minister Helen Clark wants Ministers to scrap plans to ditch Concert FM
She said she was concerned to see the programme being marginalised – “this equates to a dumbing down of cultural life in New Zealand”.

• Dame Kiri Te Kanawa slams ‘controlling’ RNZ executives over proposed Concert changes.
“What if we were to say, lets axe the All Blacks now? How about that one. Do we need them? Lets just axe everything – then we’ve got nothing, no legacy. Nothing to leave for the future.”

Why in particular has this one change been proposed when The Government has just announced a “thirty year” review into the future of their broadcasting assets?
________

One assumes if consultants PwC are to “do a business case”, it will be defined by a brief suggesting platforms, number of channels, audiences to be aimed at, and a budget outline.

I trust journalists for their own interests in the matter, and coincidently our interest, have already sent off Official Information Questions asking for this brief so we have some idea of the Governments aspirations before it is all presented a few months before the Election as Labour policy.
Of course it will all be shut down with claims of commercial sensitivity.

But then there is still the question – What is being delivered mid-year? A plan to be implemented, or another Election option?
________

Labour last Election option –
Labour will:
Transform Radio New Zealand into RNZ+, a truly multi-platform provider dedicated to quality New Zealand programming and journalism, including a free-to-air non-commercial television service
https://www.labour.org.nz/broadcasting

Just as well there were problems in Clare Curran meeting Carol Hirschfeld (on Ardern’s advice?) or we could already have embarked on this, which seems premature now compared to be bigger changes Labour has just proposed.
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February 9, 2020 8:19am
- SPC
  
  To most it would have seemed obvious what to do – downsize the number of presenters but kept Concert on FM (old peson tech and practice) and used the money saved for youth radio online (younger person tech and practice)
  
  If they cannot get even that right …
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:02am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You are correct … too many presenters and backroom staff.
    
    The problem is the identity politics of those folks.
    
    There’s a big scramble for power going on behind the scene…. Jacinda’s mates were being lined up for cushy jobs last year, when all that fell flat (thanks Melissa Lee)… they’ve turned to the strategy of removing internal opposition.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:36am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Honestly, sometimes the presenters are OK but sometimes you can hear that they are just reading the CD cover or a quick Google search. Hesitant and fumbling. As if they don’t even use the duration of the last piece of music to study up a bit!
    
    I agree: keep classical and jazz on FM, some focus on NZ performers. Definitely announce what the pieces are and any pertinent facts about composer or composition (all this can be pre-recorded anyway), but downsize the number of them.
    
    And just start a new channel for Da Yoof, who no doubt will be flocking to RNZ for edification and entertainment…
    
    Alternatively chop the whole bloody thing: no publicly funded radio or TV, lower taxes and people can choose what they want.
    
    Hilarious that RNZ calls itself an ‘independent public media service’! The painful propaganda I’ve heard on Red Radio over the last few years makes me want them all fired.
    
    Especially Kim Hill!!
    
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    February 9, 2020 5:19pm
    - curry4me
      
      Yes, I agree, dump the lot. Government owned broadcasting services are legacy technology. They also are very prone to become mere propaganda services.
      
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      February 9, 2020 9:04pm
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  ““The Government must ensure New Zealanders have a strong independent public media service for decades to come, which means ensuring public media assets are fit for the future and able to thrive amid the changing media landscape,” Mr Faafoi said.”
  _________
  No the government needs to do no such thing. It should sell TVNZ for what it can get and convert RNZ to a subscription based service.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:33am
- JackRabbit
  
  “The Government must ensure New Zealanders have a strong independent public media service for decades to come..”
  
  There can be no INDEPENDENT public media service as long as all the govt owned media get merged into one, and controlled by the govt.
  
  This is the same as when Clare Curran said high power prices were caused by lack of competition in the power industry becasue of of too many players in the market. She went on to say that to get true competition the govt should buy all the power companies and manage then as one entity.
  
  Seriously, it reminds us that all potential MPs be tested for IQ and drug use before being allowed to enter into politics.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:56am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    They must have a very different definition of INDEPENDENT, to me, or the OED.
    They are entirely DEPENDENT on govt./taxpayer funds.
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:42am
    - JackRabbit
      
      It is double speak – tell people what they want to hear or believe in, mixed in with what you are going to do.
      
      “We will not increase taxes” – Petrol tax is not a tax.
      
      “We need to find alternatives to fossil fuels” – So lets ban them.
      
      “We need to be a transparent govt” so lets hide all things that make us look non transparent.
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:35pm
- emmess
  
  NZBC?
  Yeah, well that would sum up this government quite well then.
  Back to the sixties maaaaan
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:59am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Resurrect radio Hauraki?…anyone got a boat we can borrow?
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:43am
    - Tall Man
      
      Maybe the NZS Coalition .. but I believe it has already sunk 😉
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:06pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Marine reef or oceanic pollution?
        
        4 0
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        February 9, 2020 1:38pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m not sure RW but it stinks!
        
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        February 9, 2020 3:44pm
- Clyde
  
  According the interviews that I’ve heard from someone called something like the RNZ Head of Music or something like that, RNZ say that they need a Polynesian station in Auckland. Well the last time I looked Auckland had something like 28 FM stations on 38 FM frequencies. For goodness sake, that is a hell of a lot of choice.
  
  The sort of music that they are wanting to dish up on this “new” station is also music that is recorded using huge amounts of compression and limiting – in other words, the dynamic range is usually limited to a couple of db. Conversely, classical music usually has a huge dynamic range and the FM system is far better suited to this.
  
  Seems to me that it is not unreasonable to require RNZ to continue to provide a Concert programme on FM, but protesting to Government isn’t going cut the mustard. Making the point to RNZ is more likely to be effective.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:03am
  - The only red for me is that of Manchester United
    
    Mai FM and Flava have the Maori and Pasifika youth radio market well and truly. There would be no turning of the dial to a RNZ yoof radio station. Older Pasifika listen to 53I the Pacific Radio station. Again the market is well catered too.
    
    In hindsight Music 101 on RNZ National on Saturday afternoons was suddenly upping their Maori and Pacific content. This would have been a trail for the content of the yoof station.
    
    I’ve signed some online petitions and donated money. Letters to a few ministers will be my next action.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:05pm
- niggly
  
  The other interesting aspect is that Helen Clark has called both Radio NZ and the Labour Govt out for failing to understand its obligations to ensure Concert FM is funded and supported!
  
  Although Helen’s reprimand occurred on Twitter (MSM missing in action again – they gotta protect the Princess presumably?), this is “real news”, even Robbo was acquiescing!
  
  https://twitter.com/HelenClarkNZ/status/1225571392034398209
  
  To make matters worse, Jacinda is the Minister for arts and culture, and has been “missing in action” over the whole affair (amongst other recent funding cutbacks), and it appears even the horrified Luvvies are noticing that fact that Jacinda is saying nothing and doing nothing … like some sort of void waste of space! 😉
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:16am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Jacinda is trying to make sense of orders from Aunty Helen, and opinions of her colleagues and friends. And more importantly, what will voters think?
    
    She does not have any first principles with which to form a prompt viewpoint from. Like Greta, her answer has to be scripted, after weighing up how it will impact on voter allegiance. Assessing the impact on support takes time, and aids are probably scrambling carrying out phone surveys or analysis to establish the impact on voters.
    
    Forming a viewpoint from first principles is usually either immediate or after weighing up principles, something that is hard to do if you don’t have any.
    
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    February 9, 2020 1:09pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Helen Clark looking for relevance again! When are we ever going to be rid of this oxygen thief?
    No, that’s right, it won’t happen until the leftist luvvies in the MSM cotton on to the face that she is just a leach looking for relevance in our society.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:42pm
  - curry4me
    
    Maybe she can put on a twin set,and pearls, hug some luvvies, and the crisis will be averted.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:16pm
- tf78
  
  You can’t expect the DJ to appreciate the finer things in life.
  
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  February 9, 2020 1:15pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Fish and chips anyone? Oh, perhaps you would like an ABBA number with that?
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:43pm
Jack5

Does political correctness even extends to coronavirus?

In Stuff today:

“It probably started with a bat infecting a domestic animal, perhaps a goat or sheep.

“Weeks, perhaps years later, at a market bustling with live animals in the Chinese city of Wuhan the virus jumped from animal to human for the first time.”

The world has been following the apparent spread of coronavirus from the Wuhan Huanan Seafood Market, now closed, where meat from 100 or so wild animals is sold, including bats, snakes, even wolf cubs.

Some Chinese buy live snakes and boil them, others eat bats, which are a a likely source of the coronavirus.

I haven ‘t seen sheep or goats feature in the reports, and how would a virus jump from a bat to a sheep or a goat? Could it be that someone in the Stuff news chain has thought, “We mustn’t offend Chinese by suggesting they eat bats or or bat soup.” Or perhaps they thought eating bats is too revolting to consider.

No use being prissy about this. Muslims and Jews may shudder at people eating pig meat, and we are snobby about folk who eat horse meat, and these include folk in France, Belgium, Japan, and even some Tongans in Auckland.

Where coronavirus likely comes from:

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-015-0422-1
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February 9, 2020 8:19am
- SPC
  
  As with SARS the origin appears to be with bats once again. But as with SARS there is an intermediate host before it was passed onto humans. Last time civets, this time pangolins.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/07/pangolins-might-have-spread-coronavirus-to-humans
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:15am
  - cmm
    
    Note the “might”.
    
    Far too early to be conclusive I’d say.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:37am
- cmm
  
  PC bullshit in medical research gets people killed.
  
  The backpedaling has been huge. The “wet markets” have been renamed “seafood markets”.
  
  Bats are a likely vector because they:
  1) Are mammals and thus tend to carry virus types that are more likely to whack us (directly or via mutation).
  2) Have huge ranges flying tens of km per night thus quickly moving diseases around. They fight and have sex and easily move diseases from one colony to another.
  3) Roost in vast numbers in caves etc. Many million bats can sleep together huddled in one cave.
  4) Seem to have some general resistance to virus infections meaning they can carry a huge virus loading without dying.
  
  Basically, if you started off trying to design a perfect virus vector you could not beat bats.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:36am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Which is why bats, vampires, and being turned into a vampire after being bitten, seems to be a part of human mythology going way back. And eating garlic helps prevent being bitten or help with cure.
    
    Allicin, a key component of Garlic and also a natural anti-biotic, is well known for its ability to neutralise infections, flu, viruses and kill off parasites.
    
    https://restorativemedicine.org/library/monographs/garlic/
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:07am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    cmm and others , there is no evidence that coronavirus from eating bat meat nor pets , nor from postal items ( the virus cannot live outside human or aninmal bodies )
    
    Also garlic , alge and bleach and associated quack cures cannot ttrat it as a matter of interest ,
    
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/wuhan-coronavirus-myths-red-meat-bleach-antibiotics-and-sesame-oil-2020-2?r=US&IR=T
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:09am
    - JackRabbit
      
      You are wrong about garlic as scientists are still learning about Allicin and it positive properties. Anything that boosts the immune system is positive.
      
      Lumping Garlic in with alge and bleach and associated quack cures, is an attempt to discredit Garlic which has many positive effects.
      
      I’m surprised you didn’t mention the flat earth society, tree huggers and dope smokers as well. No, oh wait, you support the Greens, so you are a tree-hugger, and we know through self admission you are a dope smoker.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:33am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Jack Rabbitt,
        
        “No, oh wait, you support the Greens, so you are a tree-hugger, and we know through self admission you are a dope smoke”
        
        What self-admission?
        
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        February 9, 2020 10:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Stephieboy2
        
        In your stances on KB. Dope smoking does aid memory loss.
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:02am
    - cmm
      
      You might note the words I used:
      1) I have repeatedly said it is far too early to be conclusive about much.
      2) I said bats are a “likely vector”, not a proven vector.
      
      Bats are the perfect carriers, but that does not mean they are the only carriers. Birds, pigs etc can be carriers too, as can just about anything. “Wet markets” make this all the more likely since they become hubs.
      
      As I have related before. I have been attacked by a rabid bat in South Africa. Bugger all funny about that. Rabies is incurable and one of the shittiest possible ways to die.
      
      South Africa and China both continue to have ongoing rabies outbreaks and it would appear that the rabies persist in the bat populations and is then easily “refreshed” in dog/cat populations after eradication programmes.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:44am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Parasites are often a vehicle for disease and viruses to spread inter-species. The parasites carry the disease or virus and the parasite gets ingested from consuming the uncooked flesh of the mammal with the parasites.
        
        In addition, a lick, bite, or even a scratch from some animals, including pets can result in parasite egg transfer. This is well known as part of everyday medicine.
        
        All mammals carry parasites, and you can never get rid of them completely as they appear to be part of the food chain. Ongoing studies point to parasites being somewhat like mini “garbage” nanobots, soaking up bacteria and invaders in mammals.
        
        The problems start when they enter another species complete with the garbage they have collected.
        
        Leeches, a form of parasite, are used in the medical profession, and some treatments use specific parasites to help in dealing with certain conditions un-treatable by drugs. Quite common but not commonly talked about.
        
        Alternately, persistent allergies, and asthma for example, that have not responded to drugs targeting the symptoms, often disappear when the patient is put on natural remedies or drugs that purge the body of parasites.
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:18am
      - Sacha
        
        Bats are well known in Australia for their ability to spread viruses. First Hendra, now this:
        
        https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2013/05/articles/animals/horses/another-australian-bat-virus-in-horses/
        And bats are protected in Australia –
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:28am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Sacha
        
        Hence the term “Batshit Crazy”
        
        https://www.quora.com/What-does-bat-shit-crazy-mean-and-where-did-it-originate-from
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:13pm
      - cmm
        
        JR: Correct about parasites.
        And, again, parasites are spread well by animals with large movement ranges and that are packed in closely together.
        
        This happens naturally in bats and artificially with human movement of livestock. Here in the West, most of this is subject to vet regs etc, not so much in Asia.
        
        Given the way animals are traded in wet markets (now PC-rebranded “seafood markets”) those would be ideal ways to move parasites into humans.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:26pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @cmm
        
        I’ve always thought that practices such as eating live monkey brains and chocolate coated locusts, puffer fish, or similar, were are just plain stupid.
        
        Mind, you cannibalism, as practiced by the Tahitian Maoris was equally as daft, and genetically stupid.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:54pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  how would a virus jump from a bat to a sheep or a goat
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546865/
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:35am
  - greybeard
    
    Sunday morning, I have just seen a few minutes of a doco by Attenborough, part of which showed vampire bats sucking blood from a donkey, at night. They have some agent in their sputum which prevents blood clotting.
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:51pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    MW, indeed and ultimately to humans,
    
    “How viruses jump from hosts: Secrets of rabies transmission in bats discovered”
    
    “HIV-AIDS. SARS. Ebola. Bird Flu. Swine Flu. Rabies. These are emerging infectious diseases where the viruses have jumped from one animal species into another and now infect humans. This is a phenomenon known as cross-species transmission (CST) and scientists are working to determine what drives it.”
    
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100805143101.htm
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:51pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Do you really think I don’t know that?
      
      Did you even look at the paper I linked to?
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:57pm
    - tavita
      
      The easiest way to get a virus to jump from animals to humans would be to use crisper. There was a lab in wuhan with that capability. I don’t really want to believe that is what happened but it would explain a lot.
      
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      February 9, 2020 4:55pm
  - Sacha
    
    I understand that the Australian bats have ‘flight paths. Bats urinate as they fly. If they are infected the urine contaminates the land it lands on, and animals can contract the disease by eating the grass. Hendra virus affects the neurology of the host, causing paralysis resulting in death. There have been rare instances of humans (usually vets). contracting the disease fatally from affected horses. I have friends who have a property on a flight path. They are not permitted to remove the trees, or discourage the bats in any way.
    
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    February 9, 2020 4:23pm
- mark15
  
  The meat from a pig is called pork.
  
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  February 9, 2020 3:12pm
G152

High temps in the Antarctic.
Great acclaim, the crazies are dancing in the streets.
Whoops.
Hang on.
The warm bit is that long bit reaching up toward South America.
The bit where they have vegetation and no permanent ice.
Where the South Americans have bases and tourists visit.
Oh dear.
Another lie
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February 9, 2020 8:26am
- Stephen Russell
  
  How exactly is this a lie? The place is part of Antarctica is it not? Were the instruments faulty? Is the story made up?
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:42am
  - GT Build
    
    It is part of Antarctica but if you look at the data it is the warmest place on the continent but the bs media try to make out that this was the south pole
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:09am
  - cmm
    
    Yes, it is part of the physical Antarctic landmass, but it is off on the end of a 1200km skinny little peninsula. It is outside the Antarctic circle.
    
    It is actually closer to South America than it is to the main Antarctic landmass.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:48am
    - All_on_Red
      
      You guys talking about West Antarctica- where the ring of active underwater Volcanos is?
      
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      February 9, 2020 12:23pm
      - cmm
        
        I don’t think they are active, but they are likely generating heat like many dormant volcanoes do.
        
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        February 9, 2020 5:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Where Argentinians have a school and babies get born and kiddiewinkles join the Scouts…
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanza_Base
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:42am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    MW, apparently the base is the most northern in the continent and am sure Eskimos , Greenlanders and Icelanders providea useful role models in adaptations to a hostile environment.
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:01am
    - chuk
      
      Nobody cares what you think. Can’t you take a hint and infect a different blog? Maybe you could start a blog of your own as a treat for all your fans.
      
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      February 9, 2020 12:51pm
    - The only red for me is that of Manchester United
      
      Inuit. Not Eskimo. Eskimo is a culturally offensive term. Thought you would have known that
      
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      February 9, 2020 3:55pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  You are quite right of course; one temperature reading in one place at one time tells us nothing at all about trends in the global climate. For that, you’d need lots of temperature readings from lots of different places over time.
  
  If only highly trained scientists all over the world had access to such a dataset for analysis! I’m sure we’d all listen carefully and attentively to their findings.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Such a dataset would probably be corrupted and misused by the shadowy cabal using the UN to achieve global domination…
    
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    February 9, 2020 1:02pm
tedbear

There’s a great article on Ardern on BFD from freelance writer Wendy Geus.
“Will Ihumatao Be Ardern’s Waterloo?”
https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/02/will-ihumatao-be-arderns-waterloo/
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February 9, 2020 8:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston may agree to the abhorrent deal for a price–a seat for NZF.
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:58am
  - Sofia
    
    KevO’Brian
    But then, perhaps no one will vote for Winston or NZF, except Pania Newtown and as Winston has criticised her too, even she may give him a miss.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:30am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      We’ll all just have to watch out for the tricks. Don’t expect a clean election fight over the next 7 months.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:52am
    - rockape
      
      There will be a lot more voters against ny deal than for it, pandering toMaori May piss off the rest of us big time.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:55am
  - marcw
    
    Winston First has a dilemma – does he be the handbrake and stop this theft of taxpayers’ money, or does he do a dirty deal with Labour and accept a quid-pro-quo in return for a “safe” seat in Northland?
    
    The first choice means may get more Party votes, but the second a potential direct path back into Parliament with an Electorate seat. Which has the greater chance of success? What a dilemma … you can be sure he will choose whatever is best for Wynston rather than the “right thing to do”.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:36am
    - rockape
      
      I don’t think any deal for a seat is a guarantee of getting one. Especially if it involves jones, I don’t think many NZ First voters like him.
      
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      February 9, 2020 3:28pm
Nukuleka

I briefly perused a copy of a friend’s The Press newspaper yesterday and was struck by its continuing vilification and obsession with Donald Trump, from the caricature beneath its page 1 masthead, to the puerile Tremain cartoon to the emotive slant of its ‘stories’ and on and on. In its coverage of US news The Press is really just a bigoted mouthpiece for the US Democratic Party.
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February 9, 2020 8:33am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It’s really quite sad that the NZ media does not genuflect before President Orange.
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:57am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    They could at least report impartially on his achievements. I am already looking forward to the wailing and gnashing of teeth when Trump is confortably reelected.
    
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    February 9, 2020 9:37am
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Sydney Alvarado, his ” achievements ” are marred by the fact that he is a serial liar and cheat so it is hard to sought out fact from fiction.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:12am
      - Sydney Alvarado
        
        FFS. I don’t give a shit what he claims. Look at the economy. I’m not going to link to any indicators. It would be wasted on you.
        
        32 3
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        February 9, 2020 10:27am
      - Prince
        
        Indicators may indicate outcomes, which are hate speech in the new Woke World.
        Concentrate on inputs and all will be well.
        
        21 1
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        February 9, 2020 10:58am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Name the lies and how they impacted the population.
        Note: Exaggerating doesn’t count.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:01pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    But would be great if these clowns could achieve even a tiny fraction of his accomplishments.
    Instead of steadily heading us back into a stone age 3rd world country.
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:04pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      BTW, still waiting for DJT’s actual lies.
      Lets start it off with the last president.
      “If you like your Dr, you can keep your Dr. (Only to be show later, that they knew at the time, that wasn’t true).
      There, I’ve given you an example of a blatant political lie….your turn.
      
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      February 9, 2020 1:47pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Not just the Press. An Aucland future chip wrapper Harvey Norman discount advisor works in the same retarded manner and still finds space to give credibility to socialist retards like our Lezzy
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:03am
- John Warren
  
  Yet the Press despairs at its ever diminishing circulation, constantly ringing and pestering cancelled subscribers, and blaming every cause but its tiresome lefty slant. Haven’t read it for so long now, but I’m always pleased to receive a copy – my youngest daughter is always short of material to line the bottom of her guinea pig cage.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:51am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    John Warren, not easy to operate the Press in the ever changing and rapid digital and technological changes we are witness to.
    
    But hey why not you give it a try?
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The world’s gone crazy. Is this the beginning of the end times?
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:54am
SJ Actual

Kris Faafoi is going list only. Labour must be planning to get some new talent, which it badly needs, in to a safe seat.
The demographics of the mana electorate are changing with the development of Whitby and Aotea.
Is it still a safe Labour seat?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/labour-s-kris-faafoi-won-t-stand-for-mana-seat-run-only-as-list-candidate-in-2020-election.html
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February 9, 2020 8:33am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Maybe Kris is worried that it’s no longer a safe Labour seat.
  
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  February 9, 2020 8:53am
  - cmm
    
    Kris needs to be careful. He could end up with Angry Andy’s wee problem – almost not enough list places to get voted onto the island.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:50am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think he’s being pushed out.
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:56am
      - alloytoo
        
        I agree.
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:29am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        A bit too rational and possibly independent for the COL?
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:56am
      - rockape
        
        Maybe he has a job in the new Pacifica Radio channel.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:02pm
      - cmm
        
        “I think he’s being pushed out.”
        Good point.
        
        KF is quite often labelled as competent.
        
        Now the other Polsci misfits could either:
        a) try to learn from him, see what he does right and try to emulate that to become competent themselves
        -or-
        b) vote him off the island.
        
        Personally I don’t find him objectively competent – he only looks good when surrounded by the crew he’s with.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:38pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Maybe he has a job in the new Pacifica Radio channel
        
        I suspect he knows too much about broadcasting, so he has to be shuffled off the scene in case Labour get back into power.
        
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        February 9, 2020 2:02pm
Captain Mainwaring

Gary Stead, make your holiday a permanent one. A team of inexperienced cripples, with the leading bowler spewing between overs, can beat India without you messing with their heads.
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February 9, 2020 8:51am
lastmanstanding

A Good Government only taxes its citizens to the extent to carry out the wishes of a majority of the citizens.

A Bad Government over taxes its citizens and then offers them a tax cut if the citizens vote for them.

Discuss.
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February 9, 2020 8:52am
- JackRabbit
  
  “A Bad Government over taxes its citizens and then offers them a tax cut if the citizens vote for them.”
  
  Or offers slush fund handouts from said over taxes, or goes on witch hunts such as Pike River.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:10am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P32yPkr1eGM
China’s “Extremely Vile” Response to Novel Coronavirus. The presitator is not amused. And the peasants are getting rather cross.
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February 9, 2020 8:53am
Yvette

The One Billion Trees Progress Chart [1] states that the –
Government has directly funded 24,681,000 trees, as of January 7, 2020

This will soon be one tenth of the Kiwiblog side-bar counter
“Government Tree Deficit” which currently is about 240,106,000

Does Shane deserve Northland, on this scale of delivery?

[1] https://www.teururakau.govt.nz/funding-and-programmes/forestry/one-billion-trees-programme/about-the-one-billion-trees-programme/
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February 9, 2020 8:53am
- cmm
  
  ” Government has directly funded 24,681,000 trees, as of January 7, 2020″
  
  Nope, the 200k or so net tax payers have.
  
  Remember what matters to the cuzzies is not the friggin trees, but the koha.
  
  The number of people actually benefiting from exercise is low. A nursery owner (or whatever) only gets one vote.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:41am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dcD8CfbULQ

Guide to the February 8th Irish election, Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael. A bit long if you’re short of time. But it is divided into several parts. I barely knew a thing about Irish politics until I watched this.
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February 9, 2020 8:54am
rightoverlabour

Hmm, so if CO2 is causing warming, why is each NH winter getting progressively colder?

https://electroverse.net/code-red-blizzards-bury-parts-of-eastern-europe-with-entire-cities-under-siege/

https://electroverse.net/all-time-record-cold-invades-eastern-russia/

This is not one isolated event, The USA and Canada are experiencing the same, as is the Middle East, and Asia.

There is good scientific reasoning that argues that reduced sunspot activity ( as a proxy for solar activity) is correlated with increased cloudiness and perturbations in the Rossby waves. Further the statistical correlations are very strong and show probable causation. However, as this science doesn’t fit with alarmist CO2 theories, it is dismissed out of hand. Why?
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February 9, 2020 9:00am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  That is simply not correct. This winter has been one of the mildest ever in North America. Here is a link, and I can provide a dozen more.
  
  https://www.naturalgasintel.com/articles/120786-natural-gas-forwards-resume-slide-as-january-warmth-continues
  
  The unusually warm weather has seen a slump in demand for natural gas with crashing global prices.
  
  https://www.barrons.com/articles/natural-gas-prices-falling-demand-coronavirus-51581119054
  
  Of course it is always possible to point to weather events that are at odds with averages. Weather and climate are not the same thing.
  
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  February 9, 2020 9:46am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    Apologies my link on the slump in natural gas prices is behind a pay wall. Here is an alternative.
    
    https://www.naturalgasintel.com/articles/120786-natural-gas-forwards-resume-slide-as-january-warmth-continues
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:02am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    One could argue that we have not had enough weather to actually determine a trend. However most sceptics argue thathe earth is cooling, or at least not warming. This trend has been eveident since 1998 ( the pause) and besides strong el Nino events (2016) the trend is cooling. Trends however are very much determined by ones start and end points. so anybody could argue anything here.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:25am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      Well you can’t really argue anything and I was not. I was simply saying that the data shows that Noth America is having a winter with a well above average temperatures. You could calculate that over 20 or 40 or 100 years and the statement would be correct.
      
      For example NYC recorded its 10th warmest January in 150 years. Not a record but well above average. For 150 years anyway.
      
      http://www.weathergamut.com/2020/02/01/january-2020-tenth-warmest-january-on-record-for-nyc/
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:17am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        I am not going to argue against your point as there are countless articles backing up your statement. However, I am suspicious of the terrestrial temperature record. I do beleive it is very hard to actually get an accurate idea of what the avearge temperature trend is. There are so many issues that can corrupt the data. I favour the satellite measurements because even if there is some bias, it will be uniform.
        
        Have a look at this for an example of issues around temperature records.
        
        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/10/11/bombshell-audit-of-global-warming-data-finds-it-riddled-with-errors/
        
        https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/serious-quality-problems-in-the-surface-temperature-data-sets-ross-mckittrick/
        
        https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/01/thorough-not-thoroughly-fabricated-the-truth-about-global-temperature-data/
        
        https://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/08/july-2019-was-not-the-warmest-on-record/
        
        Remember statistically, when dealing with averages, a man with one foot in a bucket of ice, and another in a bucket of boiling water is “comfortable”. The same goes for temperatures. In some respects, the “average temperature” of the globe or continent is a meaningless concept.
        
        Pictures of snow 3 metres deep do not convey warmer temperatures. What further complicates the temperature record is the vast swings between balmy weather sucked in from the tropics interspersed with freezing weather from the Arctic as the Rossby waves meander wildly. ( Due to changes in cosmic radiation and sudden stratospheric warming which has nothing to do with CO2).
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:39pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        FFs You’re referring to just New York City-which is probably enjoying Urban Heat Island Effect.
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:58pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Next 10+ days looks quite cold all over the US
        http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp1
        
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        February 9, 2020 1:03pm
      - Sydney Alvarado
        
        “FFs You’re referring to just New York City-which is probably enjoying Urban Heat Island Effect“
        
        Wouldn’t NYC have been experiencing the same urban heat island effect last year and the year before that?
        
        Anyway I could post temperature readings from hundreds of north America weather stations. Apart from Alaska and the Pacific North West, they would all show above average temperatures.
        
        If you don’t believe the data you could ask the people. Whichever way you look at it, most of north America is experiencing a mild winter. Not record breaking but indisputably mild.
        
        Why are you so sensitive about something so self evident?
        
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        February 9, 2020 2:04pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Have a look here for some long term trends.
    
    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/09/100-years-of-us-cooling/
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:36am
  - CJames
    
    No Sydney, it hasn’t been that warm in NA/ contiguous USA. It only got that way because of the data adjustments, that just seemed to cool the 30s
    https://realclimatescience.com/2020/02/why-data-tampering-matters-2/
    You can see his links for his data sources.
    They did the same thing for the NY data so it is not “real” but adjusted by undocumented processes.
    .
    
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    February 9, 2020 1:01pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-whats-warming-the-world/
  
  You will probably dismiss this out of hand, but it shows (though graphics) the effect of sun temperature on Earth climate over time. Short answer: Yes, sun temperature does have an effect, but it is small, and it goes up and down over time (rather than just up, up, up) – so not sufficient to account for the observed temperature change.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:01am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    TSI does not have a major affect. However, the secondary effect of increasing or decreasing galactic cosmic radiation which fluxes as the solar wind increases or decreases has an affect on cloudiness and those increases or decreases have a major affect on temperature. Evidently increased cosmic radiation increases cloud nucleation. Further nobody has taken into account the clean air act that removed tons of particles from the atmosphere that were discharged during the 40s, 50s, and 60s that would probably account for some of the cooling after the 1930s. The atmosphere is not warming at a faster rate than from 1900 to 1940. CO2 was seen to be increasing as the temperature started increasing and a link was created. ( because there was “nothing else”). Now we have better evidence that CO2 may be only part of the issue. Further the satellite data shows less warming than the land based stations as discussed by John Christy et al. The atmosphere is far more complicated than a “one variable controls temperature” scenario.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:21am
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      rightoverlabour, where did you c & p that from?
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:30am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        This from NASA has got the measure of things,
        
        Ancient air bubbles trapped in ice enable us to step back in time and see what Earth’s atmosphere, and climate, were like in the distant past. They tell us that levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere are higher than they have been at any time in the past 400,000 years. During ice ages, CO2 levels were around 200 parts per million (ppm), and during the warmer interglacial periods, they hovered around 280 ppm (see fluctuations in the graph). In 2013, CO2 levels surpassed 400 ppm for the first time in recorded history. This recent relentless rise in CO2 shows a remarkably constant relationship with fossil-fuel burning, and can be well accounted for based on the simple premise that about 60 percent of fossil-fuel emissions stay in the air…”
        
        https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/graphic-the-relentless-rise-of-carbon-dioxide/
        
        Today, we stand on the threshold of a new geologic era, which some term the “Anthropocene”, one where the climate is very different to the one our ancestors knew.
        
        If fossil-fuel burning continues at a business-as-usual rate, such that humanity exhausts the reserves over the next few centuries, CO2 will continue to rise to levels of order of 1500 ppm. The atmosphere would then not return to pre-industrial levels even tens of thousands of years into the future. This graph not only conveys the scientific measurements, but it also underscores the fact that humans have a great capacity to change the climate and planet….”
        
        https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/graphic-the-relentless-rise-of-carbon-dioxide/
        
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        February 9, 2020 10:34am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        Actually wrote it myself as I have some understanding of this, unlike you.
        
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        February 9, 2020 10:37am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        Read this as to why I would celebrate 1500ppm of CO2.
        
        https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/30/life-on-earth-was-nearly-doomed-by-too-little-co2/
        
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        February 9, 2020 10:39am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Some of us are capable of composing our own sentences.
        
        If you knew anything about grammar, punctuation or spelling, you would realise that rightoverlabour’s piece is not a c&p.
        
        He’s spelt a word incorrectly in the first sentence, but correctly once in the 2nd sentence.
        (There’s other clues that it’s self-composed).
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:04am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        right overlabour, I would put my money on someone like Prof Brian Cox than you or Judith curry for that matter,
        
        Q&A: Professor Brian Cox takes on Senator Malcolm Roberts in climate change stoush
        
        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-16/professor-brian-cox-vs.-senator-malcolm-roberts/7746576
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:57pm
      - Stephieboy2
        
        “…as I have some understanding of this, unlike you.”
        
        Appeal to authority?
        
        Re Richard Feynnmann .
        
        LOL!
        
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        February 9, 2020 1:06pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        You have googled Richard Feynman , I assume?
        
        A quick synopsis…
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman
        
        Somehow, I am not quite sure why, but if asked to choose bewteen your ideas and Richards, I think I would tend to favour Richard… Just a hunch.
        
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        February 9, 2020 2:14pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @StephieBoy 12:57
        
        re: rightoverlabour 10:37
        and: Maggy Wassilieff 11:04
        
        Copying and Pasting is not understanding (you); Scripted replies are not understanding (Greta).
        
        Think of it this way. Your wife has a rare tumour on the brain. Death is certain in 5 years without a never before tried operation. So you have to weigh up the probability of a cure being found with 5 years, against the risk of a new unproven operation ending up in death on the operating table.
        
        You both sit down with the suregeon to get a grasp on the risks. But every time you ask a question he brings up a link on Google, or quotes his old Tutor. Not once does he speak from his own understanding. Quite rightly you would depart and find an alternative.
        
        Stephieboy, you show all the signs on an evangelist. It wouldn’t matter if it was Climate Change or being a born again Christian. You are an evangelist. You “know” everything and understand nothing. And you are screwed without Google.
        
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        February 9, 2020 3:11pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Just seen this on Judith Curry’s excellent blog. Ozone depleting chemicals that do trap radiation at different wavelenghts to CO2 and H2O were increasing at the same time as the post 1970s warming. These have been reduced and this may account for some of the warming,- pause, – cooling that we have observed. Unlike CO2 they have very long residency periods in the atmosphere and do not break down into other chemicals like methane does. They also affected ozone which is a major controller of stratospheric temperature dynamics.
      
      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-019-0677-4
      
      and here
      
      https://phys.org/news/2013-05-global-chlorofluorocarbons-carbon-dioxide.html
      
      http://apps.sepa.org.uk/spripa/Pages/SubstanceInformation.aspx?pid=114
      
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      February 9, 2020 10:51am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        Here is a link to her blog.
        
        https://judithcurry.com/2020/01/25/week-in-review-science-edition-117/#more-25661
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:04am
  - SPC
    
    We’ll have a clearer idea by 2040. The first solar sunspot cycle decline should have occurred by then, the impact of the Maunder minimum period recurrence is however expected to merely negate or reduce the rate of global warming.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:44am
- JackRabbit
  
  As the earth slowly tilts, which is normal, the dominant energy from the sun shifts. What were once cold areas become less cold, and what were once warm areas start cooling.
  
  And to stir the pot a bit more, the US and other governments, treat planet earth as one big chemistry set, with advanced energy weapon testing. And no, I am not a greenie, just a scientist.
  
  A while back an article came out that suggested scientists are now only becoming aware of the damage to the ionosphere caused by WWII bombing raids.
  
  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180926082713.htm
  
  However the damage done to ionosphere by low altitude WWII bombings raids is 3/4 of 5/8 of nothing compared to damage caused by the 1000+ nuclear weapons tested directly in the upper atmosphere. Not to mention the testing of DEW and Burning laser and weather modification testing.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:22am
JibberJabber

First Warren shown to be a Climate Hypocrite,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK3diCDvv6o

Now Bernie,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aajzf2r1uEs&feature=youtu.be
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February 9, 2020 9:33am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Jibberjabber, maybe they should ‘ sail ‘to their destinations?
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:16am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Good to see Private Jets have Stephie”GlobalWarmingisReal”boys seal of approval.
    
    #climatescammersRus
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:07am
Prince

I thought the NZ Media couldn’t get any more biased and puerile.
But this morning, in an article about Waitangi Day…
“In my head, Simon Bridges is always Dick Dastardly. He wagers the race on some cheap hack, it backfires, he loses any traction made and places last….
Jacinda Ardern is shrewd as Penelope Pitstop, cognisant of public perception and how to deploy it to her advantage – political or otherwise.”

Yes, a young woman’s cartoon fantasy of heroes vs villains is presented as political commentary in our media.
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February 9, 2020 9:48am
- DeepBlue
  
  She is honest enough to say that Waitangi Day is a political day, it’s the day to makes collective statement to NZ and the politicians. Which is more honest than Jacinda and co who decried Simon for making a political statement.
  
  I’d much rather all the fuss and venting occurred on 6 February in one place under watchful eye of bipartisan (/sarc) press (and bloggers from both sides) than be driven underground to the dens of a revolution.
  
  Far better to keep Waitangi Day for the vent it is and have a separate NZ day (and I don’t mean an Aotearoa Day).
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:37am
- JackRabbit
  
  “Yes, a young woman’s cartoon fantasy of heroes vs villains is presented as political commentary in our media.”
  
  It also reflects the thinking of the young woman. Infantile. Should be still be in school. Probably a good candidate for Labour.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:43am
  - Prince
    
    Possible she IS still at school.
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:01am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Then like Greta, we should not be hearing from her.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:27am
- Tall Man
  
  [Deleted – mod]
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:31am
  - Tall Man
    
    [Thank you for your opinion – mods]
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:46pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I have referred my comment to the boss to seek clarification.
      
      I see nothing obscene about it and I think you are just being precious .. again.
      
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      February 9, 2020 2:10pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Just curious. Has the boss come back to you?
        
        3 1
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        February 9, 2020 8:34pm
      - Tall Man
        
        the mods want hugz from ardern
        
        [ Mod : if you say so ]
        
        1 5
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        February 9, 2020 8:44pm
    - mark15
      
      Thanks mods! Great having you on board.
      
      2 3
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      February 9, 2020 3:19pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Up tick for you TM. [ Mod : forget whinging about moderation. Whinge to DPF – if he tells us to back off then I guess we will]
    
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    February 9, 2020 1:30pm
    - Tall Man
      
      My reply to you was also deleted [ Mod : see above ]
      
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      February 9, 2020 2:11pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Overly sensitive and overly slow. My last comment has been in “moderation” for 2 hours now.
        
        I say moderation but in my case it just seems to be the precursor to deletion …… although this seems innocuous but you never know.
        
        4 3
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        February 9, 2020 4:10pm
      - Tall Man
        
        It’s rather annoying when steffy’s posts pass through moderation faster than mine do. So does that make me more of a troll than steffy?
        
        At least I can take reassurance from the fact that the mods aren’t targeting me … Are they … 😉
        
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        February 9, 2020 6:43pm
      - RichardX
        
        What a whiny child you have become
        
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        February 10, 2020 1:11am
      - Tall Man
        
        Well richard, what is the point of a political blog when comments are censored not because they are obscene or breach guidelines but because they offend an overly sensitive moderator or ardern.
        
        The original poster referenced an article that I quoted from where ardern’s use of publicity was referred to. I did the same and stated that ardern is a media whore.
        
        That comment was deleted in it’s entirety which was a needlessly heavy handed response in my opinion.
        
        My next post explained my position and included a definition of the phrase which showed that it was commonly used phrase and is certainly apt when applied to ardern. That comment was also deleted in it’s entirety.
        
        I also answered Paulus with an explanation and that was deleted in it’s entirety.
        
        There have been a multitude of posts on this blog that have had a word or phrase deleted yet in this case a mod decided to delete and also comment.
        
        The phrase media whore has been used many times and is less “offensive” than many of the insults directed at Donald Trump yet a mod or mods has decided to follow the media line and “protect” ardern.
        
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        February 10, 2020 7:56am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Keep going with the insightful reasoned posts TM!
        
        Apparently one cannot educate pork, but let’s keep trying . . .
        
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        February 10, 2020 8:24am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      So now saying something against the moderators gets censored.
      
      Why don’t you leave the comment up if it not breaking DPF’s criteria and let the readers decide what is acceptable in this public forum with the up and down ticks.
      
      I think that some moderators here are getting a little carried away with their sense of importance to the point of abusing their position in this blog.
      
      And, perhaps keep your pithy comments to yourself unless commenting as part of the discussion as Batman does. I for one, are not interested in you justifying your moderation responses.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:04pm
HemiT

typical twitter pile on of the > nzyoungnats photo. am still put off at the bigotry of comments. a likely looking bunch , surely capable , of seeing thru the b.s and doing good in politics.
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February 9, 2020 10:13am
- Rich Prick
  
  It’s funny just how racist the woke crowd can be. They’re obsessed with skin colour.
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:41am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Its the “same old same old” – projection. Losers complaining about the faults in others that are actually their own faults.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:46am
  - JackRabbit
    
    There is a lack of “colour” and “diversity” in the photo because National aren’t campaigning for more handouts, Maori treaty lolly scrambles, and free gender reassignment, so the “colour” and “diversity” join Labour who do.
    
    Same reason Seagulls follow fishing boats looking for handouts, and Eagles and Hawks go catch their own.
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:50am
    - Prince
      
      Very true, and you can hear the squawking of the gulls for miles. Not so much eagles and hawks.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:04am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Good point. That made me smile.
        
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        February 9, 2020 11:29am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Eagles catching their own:
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hecXupPpE9o
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  Perhaps they should have done as the labour party obviously did, head out on the streets looking for candidates that match their colour/gender chart regardless of any actual talent or positive attributes, then shunt them into cabinet and watch them fuck it up …..
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:28am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  I can see a lot of women in the photo. So I assume the critics are referring to race and ethnicity. The National Party tends to affect successful people. That does not necessarily mean they are wealthy, but they are likely to be educated and have life experience.
  
  Of course there are Maori who are successful but they are few and far betwen compared to NZ Europeans and Asians. So they are disproportionately looking for income transfers and subsidies. So they are much more likely to vote Labour.
  
  The odds are that a couple of people in that photo will be future MPs. The colour of their skin is irrelevant.
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    Whether maori are successful or otherwise is irrelevant here. These are mainly kids so aren’t actually “achievers” or “non achievers” and maori are just as welcome to join the party if they wish.
    
    Perhaps those race focussed individuals may wish to compare the front bench of National to that of labour.
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:58pm
- PhilP
  
  The nasty Party at it again! They definitely are not adhering to Cindy’s Waitangi prayer!!
  
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  February 9, 2020 5:05pm
Fletch

From today’s story about Philip Schofield announcing he is gay –

But Mr Schofield said he is not ready yet for a relationship with a man.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/tv-presenter-phillip-schofield-receives-outpouring-support-after-revealing-he-gay

See, this is what I don’t get. Does he ever have to be “ready”? Just because he has a sexual desire for someone else (be it man, woman, or the Wonky Donkey) why is it now expected that he should follow that desire? He made a promise and a commitment to his wife of 27 years. If it were another woman he was after would that make it better or worse? I don’t see any difference. The thinking seems to be that now that he is attracted to men he should go and hook up with a man. Why? Commitment is not based on the feelings or desires you have at any one time. That’s what we teach children when they want something now or something not appropriate . Funny how that all goes out the window when you’re an adult.
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February 9, 2020 10:14am
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, is the show he is on in need of a boost from the rainbow people?
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:37am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Committment can be changed by actual reality!
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:44am
  - MrTips
    
    Gee Stephie, I know you’re going for the hat- trick on the yearly Facebook Least Number of Friends competition, but can you stop showing off your boomerang turd hurling skills? Some of us are trying to have brunch.
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:58am
- Nostradamus
  
  Fletch:
  
  (be it man, woman, or the Wonky Donkey)
  
  Or, so that one particular Kiwiblogger doesn’t feel left out, Billy the Goat!
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:56am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Do you really care that much what he does in his personal relationships?
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:56am
  - MrTips
    
    It matters when he shatters 27 yrs of marriage, sends confusing messages to his kids and family and then plays it all out publicly. It’s a really weird, odd and pretty self aggrandising thing to do.
    
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    February 9, 2020 12:02pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Sometimes thoughts and feelings are just that. I think it was a famous Hollywood actor that said that due to the sheer number of people he would rub shoulders with, that he would fall briefly in love with women, and occasionally men, several times a month.
      
      But being intelligent enough to know that feelings do not necessarily reflect our values, he remained faithfully and happily married to his wife for decades.
      
      I’m sure some of us would love to strangle the life out of some woke politicians and activists, but sanity prevails and we carry on after having fleetingly had that thought.
      
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      February 9, 2020 12:32pm
- JackRabbit
  
  “Commitment is not based on the feelings or desires you have at any one time.”
  
  Everyone experiences desires, feelings and fantasies, some experience more than others, some all the time, some only sporadically. Intelligence and maturity is not about not having feelings, it is about knowing what is right and wrong, and making rational choices.
  
  As you say, that is a commitment, not only to a partner and family, but to oneself and the conscious values and principles we hold.
  
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  February 9, 2020 11:00am
  - Harriet
    
    Well put JR.
    
    Mental health ‘professionals’ have a need to excuse poor behaviour out of care; 1st rule of medicine – don’t make matters worse.
    
    As expected there are people in society who will play on that, and demand from family and friends the same; to be excused of any behaviour as they see fit…..or else.
    
    It doesn’t really matter what sex they are — as they are all the same — selfish, immature and disordered.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:44pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Flletch, , why not some gay conversion therapy?
  
  https://www.wired.co.uk/article/what-is-gay-conversion-therapy
  
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  February 9, 2020 1:08pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Why not conversion from being a straight free thinking individual to a socialist LGBTQI ?
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
    
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    February 9, 2020 1:42pm
- MCos
  
  The guy is gay. He didn’t wake up one morning and become gay as you seem to suggest. According to the article he has grappled with the situation for some time. Maybe he believed these conversion therapy proponents who say a gay person can be changed.
  I don’t know what’s gone on in his head and neither do you.
  
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  February 9, 2020 5:48pm
stigie

How are hetrosexuals to know what’s going on with the other delicate side of things Fletch..?
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February 9, 2020 10:28am
- Nostradamus
  
  Stigie:
  
  Just pop down to Hagley Park on a sultry night, old chap, and I’m sure there will be people there who could teach you everything you want to know (and more) if you ask nicely!
  
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  February 9, 2020 10:59am
  - stigie
    
    Probably wouldn’t even have to ask nicely Nostra, just show up at one of the designated glory holes in the South/West corner ole chap !~
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:20am
    - MrTips
      
      Have you been talking to D4J again?
      
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      February 9, 2020 12:06pm
      - stigie
        
        We were always worried about Dad and his wellbeing and now we are still worried because of his absent and entertainment value !~
        
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        February 9, 2020 12:35pm
rightoverlabour

Just thought I would chuck this in ….

Climate science and corruption.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2020/01/02/how-billionaires-tom-steyer-and-michael-bloomberg-corrupted-climate-science/#489ea3d8702c
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February 9, 2020 11:00am
- Stephieboy2
  
  rightoverlabour , it has nothing on the climate change denial industry and their followers,
  
  Opinion: Forget About The Climate Deniers. It’s The Climate Liars We Need To Stop.
  
  Some politicians really don’t believe climate change is real. But there are many more who secretly believe the science but lie about it to win elections.
  
  https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nathanielstinnett/climate-deniers-and-climate-liars
  
  Plus the five corrupt pillars of climate change denial,
  
  The fossil fuel industry, political lobbyists, media moguls and individuals have spent the past 30 years sowing doubt about the reality of climate change – where none exists. The latest estimate is that the world’s five largest publicly-owned oil and gas companies spend about US$200 million a year on lobbying to control, delay or block binding climate policy.
  Their hold on the public seems to be waning. Two recent polls suggested over 75% of Americans think humans are causing climate change. School climate strikes, Extinction Rebellion protests, national governments declaring a climate emergency, improved media coverage of climate change and an increasing number of extreme weather events have all contributed to this shift. There also seems to be a renewed optimism that we can deal with the crisis.
  But this means lobbying has changed, now employing more subtle and more vicious approaches – what has been termed as “climate sadism”. It is used to mock young people going on climate protests and to ridicule Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old young woman with Asperger’s, who is simply telling the scientific truth.,
  
  https://theconversation.com/the-five-corrupt-pillars-of-climate-change-denial-122893
  
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  February 9, 2020 1:23pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    “Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old young woman with Asperger’s, who is simply telling the scientific truth”
    
    YOU do not only understand Climate Change but you sure as hell do not understand Autism.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:13pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Mod?
      
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      February 9, 2020 3:12pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Greta, is most quintessential example of “The Emperor’s New Clothes” we have seen in a long time.
    
    Many, who do not understand the climate, choose to believe Greta, believing her to have special understanding that they do not possess.
    
    The weavers are her parents and those that have helped Greta into the limelight, along with the Indian who manages her twatter account.
    
    To you and others, Greta has “Great” is and she is dressed is so fine an understanding that other mere un-annointed humans cannot possible have.
    
    To us, however, that understand the climate and who can “see through” her fine dressed ideas, Great is simply ideologically butt naked.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:28pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How can Greta T. know the scientific truth she’s a 16-year-old young woman with Asperger’s. She skips school and is paid performer.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:34pm
    - cmm
      
      If she can see CO2 she can figure out she has Aspergers and just about anything else.
      
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      February 9, 2020 5:31pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Stephie..
    
    “There also seems to be a renewed optimism that we can deal with the crisis.”
    
    As act of compassion, and me listening, could you please list, in order of priority of Climate Change impact, what you would do to get us onto cleaner fuels and stop “Climate Change”. Ten points will be enough.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:47pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Is there such a thing as scientific truth? No one can prove anything, only falsify an hypothesis. At best we can say that our present understanding is the best we have at the moment, until someone falsifies this held belief. Science ultimately is a belief system based on observations and experiments. But much of what we hold as true is very hard to actually prove. (never mind the fact that an observer alters the conditions of the observation, etc….)
    
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    February 9, 2020 3:27pm
  - cmm
    
    How exactly does having Aspbergers supposed to add to her credibility. It isn’t a superpower like being able to see CO2.
    
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    February 9, 2020 6:43pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      shhhhhhhh!
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/02/greta-thunberg-responds-to-aspergers-critics-its-a-superpower
      
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      February 9, 2020 7:12pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Since Co2 is odourless, colourless, and invisible, she would have to see it at a molecule level. And she would see every other atom and molecule, billions of them in front of her.
      
      I have heard of people being able to see sound while on high doses of LSD. However since it overloads all the visual senses, no-one can cope with it and usually go unconscious or catatonic.
      
      Great, being on the deck of a yacht on the ocean with all the wind, would be equivalent to being in a “hail storm” of billions of M and M’s.
      
      Being able to see CO2? Observing her in environments and crowded meetings that would have very high levels of CO2, she doesn’t even flinch.
      
      If she could really see CO2, you would think she would have vomited over her own mess, rubbish, junk food wrappers and plastic bags behind the front seats of her Tesla, in the photo someone snapped of her car.
      
      I think she is deluded and she believes her own delusions.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:18pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Greta is using a very old trick, whereby she has “superpowers”, she does not have to provide any proof, and you have to believe her, because without the Superpowers, you as a mere mortal, cannot understand.
      
      This is another variation on the Emperor’s new clothes. Only people of fine breeding can “see” the Emperor’s new clothes.
      
      The fact that she now claims “Superpowers” is further proof of her delusion.
      
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      February 9, 2020 11:32pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Scientists making up data (again)

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00287-y
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February 9, 2020 11:13am
- MrTips
  
  My colleagues in venture capital tell me experience has shown 50% of Nature papers are wrong or bullshit. It’s the slightly lower ranked, non politically connected articles that make the bigger impacts.
  
  Academic hubris is just that.
  
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  February 9, 2020 12:05pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  MW, whatever . Maybe its time for you and rightoverlabour to refresh yourselves and consult this publication,
  
  W and rightoverlabour , maybe time to consult and read this book
  
  Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming,
  
  The U.S. scientific community has long led the world in research on such areas as public health, environmental science, and issues affecting quality of life. Our scientists have produced landmark studies on the dangers of DDT, tobacco smoke, acid rain, and global warming. But at the same time, a small yet potent subset of this community leads the world in vehement denial of these dangers.
  
  Merchants of Doubt tells the story of how a loose-knit group of high-level scientists and scientific advisers, with deep connections in politics and industry, ran effective campaigns to mislead the public and deny well-established scientific knowledge over four decades. Remarkably, the same individuals surface repeatedly – some of the same figures who have claimed that the science of global warming is “not settled” denied the truth of studies linking smoking to lung cancer, coal smoke to acid rain, and CFCs to the ozone hole. “Doubt is our product,” wrote one tobacco executive. These ‘experts’ supplied it.
  
  Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway, historians of science, roll back the rug on this dark corner of the American scientific community, showing how ideology and corporate interests, aided by a too-compliant media, have skewed public understanding of some of the most pressing issues of our era
  
  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Merchants-Doubt-Handful-Scientists-Obscured/dp/1408824833
  
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  February 9, 2020 1:37pm
  - CJames
    
    You show deeper stupidity with every link Stephie. Ms Oreskes has linked her whole story to a rejected PR campaign that never went ahead. It has been fake news from her all along. She isn’t a historian, she is a fantasy writer, and a not very good one at that.
    How are the “Exxon Knew” cases that she is at the forefront of going? That shows how little value the courts place in her scholarship.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:08pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    We’ll consult the papers we deem fit and academically sound. We have been at this game a lot longer than you. But thanks for the advice anyway….
    
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    February 9, 2020 3:21pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    As long as Climate Change scientists never mention the Elephants in the Room, i.e. the real inputs into the atmosphere that might impact climate, both natural and science driven, it is safe t0 say they have NOT done their homework. It is all about money, and money drives the Climate Change agenda.
    
    Think of this as a modern day Trojan Horse and Emperor’s New Clothes all rolled into one.
    
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    February 9, 2020 11:26pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Good opportunity to smear all scientists there, Maggy.
  
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  February 9, 2020 1:41pm
  - Tall Man
    
    You are keen to keep that show on your foot aren’t you.
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:03pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Shoe dammit………
      
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      February 9, 2020 3:41pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Suffering from a comprehension problem are you, MMA?
    
    Let me link you to some of the other articles mentioned inn that Nature Web link I gave:
    
    How a data detective exposed suspicious medical trials
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02241-z
    
    https://www.nature.com/news/misconduct-is-the-main-cause-of-life-sciences-retractions-1.11507
    
    The science institutions hiring integrity inspectors to vet their papers
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03529-w
    
    You might like to read this recent opinion piece in Nature about the abuse and crap some folks receive when they try to challenge the “consensus”.
    
    A toast to the error detectors
    
    Let 2020 be the year in which we value those who ensure that science is self-correcting.
    
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03909-2
    
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    February 9, 2020 2:28pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sure. It’s pretty clear where we go from here. ‘Science was wrong before’, ‘there is no consensus’ etc, etc. Next minute, we’re at the claim that scientists are fronting for a shadowy cabal seeking global domination.
      
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      February 9, 2020 2:55pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      I do like the cheek of Stephieboy advising us on what we should read…. Maybe he could start by reading everything I read during my 9 long years of university study….
      
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      February 9, 2020 6:30pm
      - Stephieboy2
        
        rightoverlabour,” should read” ??
        
        9 years of uni study doesn’t seem to show in many of your posts!
        
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        February 9, 2020 7:25pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        @ stephieboy, Not going to engage, just go away and stop bothering those who wish to have an intelligent debate. I think I’ll just downtick and ignore.
        
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        February 9, 2020 7:30pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Oh dear, rightoverlabour
        
        I do hope that most of your 9 years of Uni life were paid for by the NZ taxpayer.
        
        It must piss stephieboy &co off to realise that the taxpayers paid for me to get 3 degrees and a Post-grad diploma.
        
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        February 9, 2020 7:33pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  They do it all the time in the UN global climate models–1/3 of the world has notional thermometers courtesy of another computer standing in for them.
  
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  February 9, 2020 2:30pm
Tall Man

Just to introduce a more mundane thread … I read this with interest.

https://heated.medium.com/you-should-be-eating-more-canned-fish-bbf84969b063

Who doesn’t like sardines on toast? I’m sure it’s what god eats.
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February 9, 2020 11:42am
- JackRabbit
  
  Eat sardines and help the planet at the same time.
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/8334826/Save-the-seas-eat-small-fry-like-sardines-instead-of-tuna.html
  
  https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/we-should-all-eat-more-fish-just-lay-off-the-salmon-and-cod-1.3365519
  
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  February 9, 2020 12:22pm
  - pb
    
    For many years after WW2 and living with hunger and rationing, sardines were a rare special protein treat for survivors. Many working class Irish Welsh English tummies grumble in expectation the option of sardines.
    
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    February 9, 2020 4:28pm
JibberJabber

Ha ha the Oscars, helping those poor deprived actors make our winters warmer,
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/480386-environment-oscar-nominee-hypocrite/

Also Climate Change activism is racist,

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/g5x5ny/why-i-quit-being-a-climate-activist

The climate movement is overwhelmingly white. So I walked away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRZ-IxZ46ng
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February 9, 2020 1:44pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  And they murder Climate activists in Philipines,
  
  Report / Sept. 24, 2019
  DEFENDING THE PHILIPPINES
  Environmental activists at the mercy of business at all costs
  
  In 2018, 30 land and environmental defenders were killed in the Philippines, making it the country with the highest number of such killings in the world. As our new investigation shows, despite his election promises, Duterte’s administration is leaving defenders at the mercy of corporate greed.
  
  Mining, agribusiness, logging and coal plants are driving attacks against environmental activists – with household brands such as Del Monte Philippines and Dole Philippines, and Filipino giants like San Miguel Corporation linked to local partners accused of attacks and murders of protestors.
  
  https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/environmental-activists/defending-philippines/
  
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  February 9, 2020 3:13pm
  - cmm
    
    Dude, in those places they murder anyone that gets in their way. I wouldn’t make this into a climate activist thing.
    
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    February 9, 2020 6:40pm
  - DigNap15
    
    If you’ve got over 100 milion mouths to feed and clothe, you need rescoucres.
    They breed like rabbits over there.
    
    This is also why India is building so many coal fired power planst as they need them to provide electricity for 1.3 billion people and to power their steel mills
    
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    February 9, 2020 7:13pm
mikenmildagain

JFC, what a look:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQOAZW7XkAE8eNJ?format=jpg&name=small
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February 9, 2020 2:00pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/054/Luke_Crywalker.png
  
  TRUMP 2020
  Roll on the Libtard tears
  
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  February 9, 2020 2:50pm
- Tall Man
  
  That’s the look of money mikey, that’s why he doesn’t really care.
  
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  February 9, 2020 4:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Coronavirus deaths exceed Sars fatalities in 2003

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51431087
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February 9, 2020 2:33pm
- Aunty
  
  Current figures are 37,525 cases with 813 deaths. Most are still in Hubei. Worryingly however, there are now 40 cases in Singapore and 32 in Thailand. It appears that the virus is on the loose in Singapore, and it will be very interesting to see to what extent they are able to control it. They have had strict restrictions on travelers and flights from China for some time now.
  
  Singapore for all intents and purposes is a 1st world nation with advanced institutions and healthcare, so what happens there will be telling for countries like our own if (more like when) the virus gets here.
  
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  February 9, 2020 4:14pm
  - Aunty
    
    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-outbreak-alert-upped-to-orange-as-more-cases-surface-with-no-known-links-more
    
    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-7-new-confirmed-cases-in-spore-possible-new-cluster-involving-church-in-paya
    
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    February 9, 2020 5:45pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Winston’s on the warpath

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/119377882/nz-first-to-file-police-complaint-over-massive-breach-of-party-infromation
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February 9, 2020 2:37pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Poor Winston, when the boot’s on the other foot, it hurts… 😉
  
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  February 9, 2020 2:42pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Fancy that! Another lump about to be found under Cindy’s carpet? Which sign is it to be this time Winston, YES or NO?
    
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    February 9, 2020 10:14pm
- Happychappy
  
  I said the other day now is the time to continually wind Peters up and now his Foundation has pissed off his own voters and obviously lossing valuable information on how he is [allegedly] gaming the system is the time to start winding him up at every opportunity. The Party membership must be taking a hit and the information is being leaked like a sinking ship suggesting the internal polls are dropping in percentage leaving Peter no option but to make a complaint to the police. Finally his past arrogance to others in what he calls Utu has come back to haunt him.
  [Mod – nothing is proven Happy]
  
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  February 9, 2020 2:57pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  That’s his usual M.O when he’s in the shit.
  
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  February 9, 2020 3:45pm
- MrTips
  
  I do believe that’s the sound and smell of a 158,000 whiskey soaked bricks being defecated from HisDiminutiveness™.
  
  Good luck with stopping that train you OakSoakedCretin.
  
  Lol.
  
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  February 9, 2020 3:55pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Shouldn’t it be the foundation making the complaint?
  Seems to show that the foundation and the party are interlinked.
  
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  February 9, 2020 4:06pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Clearly he’s about to smear the National Party with something.
  Other than that, the information being leaked to the media is obviously completely true…
  
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  February 9, 2020 4:07pm
- Tall Man
  
  He’s just seeking attention Maggy.
  
  He made a dick of himself at Waitangi so is now trying to “right” the ship.
  
  A big waste of time as his ship has well and truly sunk.
  
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  February 9, 2020 4:13pm
- alwyn
  
  Part 1. Sorry. I accidentally clicked on Report instead of Reply.
  
  Part 2, what I wanted to say.
  I also read this story and I thought it was hilarious. Winston wants the Party President to complain rather than doing so himself. He is talking about a Foundation that was kept secret from the Party Presidents. How can the President possibly complain about something they have been kept in the dark about?
  
  Look at what the current incumbent President’s predecessors said.
  “Asked about the foundation, Kevin Gardener – who was party president from 2010 to 2013, said: “I don’t know a damned thing about it”.
  The chap who resigned last year said
  “Lester Gray – who resigned as NZ First president in September after refusing to sign off financial reports for “moral” reasons – also denied knowing about the foundation.”
  A former Treasurer said
  “Former treasurer Colin Forster has also said he had no knowledge of the foundation.”
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287073
  
  If you really want to make a complaint Winston I suggest you do it yourself.
  
  8 0
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  February 9, 2020 4:15pm
- Doubledimp
  
  What are the supposed media stories coming out of this? And “prepare a complaint”? Huh, call me when you actually file it (and this time, read the form before you sign it!)
  
  6 0
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  February 9, 2020 4:57pm
- stigie
  
  Is Winston being left out of the limelight again after not being wanted by the National Party.
  He has to make himself relevant by getting headlines on filing complaints or suing someone who is not party to his problems..?
  He really is a prick and the sooner he’s gone the better for all parties !~
  
  8 0
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  February 9, 2020 5:42pm
- tf78
  
  He will be acting like Rumpelstiltskin very soon, especially when he see the latest poll.
  
  6 0
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  February 9, 2020 6:16pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  If I held a post in public office, I’d want my family, friends and business associates to be proud of me, and would make sure I walked the talk. If I had any sort of relationship with Peters, I’d be ashamed of him.
  
  8 1
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  February 9, 2020 6:45pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  This will be a way to have the issues declared subjudice so preventing further investigation.
  Winston has used that tactic before.
  
  Where’s the integrity of a top politician resorting to the law Courts to hide conduct about electoral matters? These should be matters of utmost good faith–not skulking around in the dark unless some secret is revealed. Why should one party hide donors by lawful but deprecated means while others obey the spirit of the rules?
  Too many lawyers, not enough transparency, it all equates to lack of integrity.
  
  4 0
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  February 9, 2020 9:22pm
rockape

Can anyone think of another politician who tried the same and ended up coming second best?
5 0
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February 9, 2020 3:33pm
rockape

Winston’s court case against Bennet and Tolley worked out so well for him. Doesn’t the old fool learn from his mistakes?
10 0
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February 9, 2020 3:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just for you lefties – and Green nutbars.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/wind-turbines-not-only-shred-birds-but-are-piling-up-landfills?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro
11 3
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February 9, 2020 3:39pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore),And there is this too for climate change denier crazies like Trump and you,
  
  Donald J. Trump
  @realDonaldTrump
  The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.
  
  LOL
  
  2 13
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  February 9, 2020 5:13pm
MrTips

James Woods is back on twitter; https://mobile.twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1225623348748546049

Even Trump acknowledged it.

Asymmetrical campaigns are so much fun.
4 0
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February 9, 2020 4:48pm
greybeard

Transmission Gully Expressway:

According to NZTA this project has had to be extended until the end of 2020 because last year the weather caused severe delays in construction.

Well, it is now well into 2020, the weather has been exemplary, and still one can drive past the construction sites day after day, especially weekends, and see nobody on the sites.
They complain that the weather has been a hindrance but now they don’t use the good weather to catch up .
There is something wrong here.

In any other country the contractors would be balls-out taking advantage of good weather. Not here.
Not in NZ.

It seems to me that the contractors quoted too low, and now cannot afford to use more resources to get the job done on time.
If they were really serious they would surely be trying to get it done before time and enhance their business reputation.
10 0
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February 9, 2020 5:07pm
- DigNap15
  
  True
  Why are we so slow at building roads in NZ?
  And then they need to be redone!
  
  9 0
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  February 9, 2020 7:10pm
cmm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12307123

Sorry dudes, just keep your cock in your pants if you don’t have condoms. Same for heteros.

Why the hell should others have to fix up your mess after your uncontrolled urges?

But, hey, Hugzilla wants your vote!

Yes, I am aware that there are a few cases of HIV infection due to other vectors (eg. kids or getting it through blood transfusions), but these are very rare in NZ.
8 1
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February 9, 2020 5:29pm
- skyblue
  
  AIDS – [del. – mod.] Where is extra money for heterosexuals? Why cant press use the real word, being homosexuals. Homosexuals have buggerised the English language.
  
  7 3
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  February 9, 2020 5:49pm
- cmm
  
  For those who think I am insensitive, I have an extended family member that died of AIDS a few years ago after a one-night hookup with another gay man.
  
  Dumb bugger knew all the risks, but still took them.
  
  Pity because he was a really nice, intelligent, creative guy and could have done a lot of good in the world.
  
  6 1
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  February 9, 2020 6:14pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Problem is that condoms only offer a degree of protection. The safest sex is a monogamous relationship ( of whatever kind). I know that may sound conservative and old fashioned, but ultimately it’s true.
    
    7 1
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    February 9, 2020 6:26pm
    - Stephieboy2
      
      … [del. – mod.]
      The reality is that condoms have proved a lifesaver and certainly significantly reduced the spread of AIDS.
      
      1 13
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      February 9, 2020 7:36pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        @ Mods What did that bastion of knowledge have to
        say that was so offensive it got deleted?
        
        Does say something about the warped psychology of our Stephieboy…..
        
        7 0
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        February 9, 2020 7:57pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Indeed, as Southern African demonstrated, risky behaviour is the mostly likely way to get it (or give it), irrespective of sexual orientation.
      
      4 0
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      February 9, 2020 7:46pm
rightoverlabour

Well wouldn’t you know it, Tony Heller has just posted this about the US having it’s hottest winter ever….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhjZI0ceSBQ

So the MSM says its the hottest, but scientists say maybe not, and have data to prove it. You may not like Tony Heller, but are you going to argue he is manufacturing the historical records he references? Feel free to write to him to tell him he is wrong….
6 1
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February 9, 2020 6:49pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  rightoverlabour , is that Tony Heller aka Steve Goddard?
  
  What other aliases do “they” use?
  
  1 13
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  February 9, 2020 7:31pm
rightoverlabour

I love listening to Patrick Moore, he has a certain turn of phrase….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXBBNcAvCsU
7 1
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February 9, 2020 6:54pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Speaking of turn of phrases Moore is not short on using nasty personal attacks on Greta Thurnberg,
  
  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-launch-personal-attacks-on-teen-activist/
  
  1 12
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  February 9, 2020 7:47pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Actually I might reply, a bit like your crusade against Maggy.? I don’t give a flying fuck what you post about me, your trolling is just cumbersome and adds nothing to the debate. Your attacks against others here are really bordering on criminal. Even if I am completely wrong on Climate change, it is always good in science to have to defend your argument against attack. It helps those who do research find errors and improve the body of learning in all these fields. Unfortunatly as you are incapable of an original thought other than stupid snide remarks, you add nothing to any of the debates on this blog.
    
    12 3
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    February 9, 2020 8:04pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Hi . Stephieboy…Hope you are enjoying your time off. While you have nothing to do, watch this video. Although you are not specifically mentioned by name, it references twats like you… See if you can see the bit I am referring to.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56z_xpjHKtQ
    
    ( Left getting into a froth as Patrick Moore has been invited to a sustainability conference)
    
    1 0
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    February 9, 2020 11:01pm
rightoverlabour

So the world is telling social media to stop the spreading of myths around Corona virus. Watch the videos here and make your own mind up.

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/corona-virus-darkness-in-china-the-west-waits-while-reports-come-that-a-mild-illness-may-progress-badly/
1 0
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February 9, 2020 10:45pm

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