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January 8, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 January 2020

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General Debate

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Scott

Scott & family holidaying in Christchurch visited the cathedral ruin and the new transitional cardboard Cathedral.
The old cathedral is a ruin. It’s horrible and should be pulled down.

Spoke to two Anglican volunteers at the new temporary cathedral. Both were adamant. The church voted 80% in favour of pulling down the old cathedral and building a new modern cathedral. The new cathedral would have been fully paid for by the insurance money.

Sadly the heritage people and the old boys network led by Jim Anderton and The Press newspaper banded together, took the Anglicans to court and won. The Anglicans under intense pressure buckled and now have to rebuild the old cathedral stone by stone. Something they don’t want to do.

The project will cost many millions, take at least a decade, probably two decades and at best will give the Anglicans a building far inferior to the modern cathedral they want to build at less cost and less time. It also takes up money the Anglicans wanted to use to rebuild other churches damaged by the earthquake. Also they were keen to fund programmes to help the young people struggling with mental health following the quake. But the rebuilding of the old cathedral will take up all of their resources.

It’s a travesty. The Anglicans should be able to build what they want. But in the end the old boys network who want the historical monument have won and trumped the Anglicans property rights. Sad! ?
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January 8, 2020 8:01am
- Tricati
  
  And one of the other protagonists, Anna Creighton, just got made a Dame for her involvement in all this crap. She’s great at spending other people’s money.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:06am
- Tony Norriss
  
  I totally agree.
  
  It is a very plain, gothic style building. There is no shortage of these. Nearly every village in Europe would having something more spectacular.
  
  Should be pulled down.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:39am
- Rich Prick
  
  It’s interesting how these heritage enthusiasts never offer to help with the preservation of the thing they love. Perhaps owning a 1981 Mitsubishi Mirage is them doing their bit.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:44am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  It is now some time since the decision was taken to restore the cathedral, yet I see nothing happening. It will be a huge task to dismantle it, record and store all the pierces, manufacture replicas of destroyed sections, and then design the base isolators and seismic strengthening. When it is all done it will be after 2030 and the bill will be well over $200 million.
  
  I would have been fine if the Church had wanted to restore it and there was an outpouring of donations enough to fund the cost. But that is not the case. It is not a spectacular building. It is not Notre Dame.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:20am
- Nukuleka
  
  Ok Scott. So as an outsider you spoke to 2 volunteers at the cardboard cathedral who agreed with you. And who made a few assertions about the views of others. All entitled to their opinions and prejudices.
  
  I live here and I visited the cardboard cathedral and spoke to 2 volunteers and they told me that they want the cathedral rebuilt in the traditional style and that most Anglicans agree with them. So there.
  
  Good on the late Jim Anderton and others in the Garden City who love the traditions of this great city and have pushed for the rebuild. The decision has been made. Live with it.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:43am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The system was heavily influenced by active politicians who were present at the voting. An implied threat of no funding if they didn’t deliver on the Govt’s choice.
    
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    January 8, 2020 1:16pm
    - sooty
      
      So how much did Jim Anderton leave in his will to help with the rebuild of the cathedral?
      None!
      
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      January 8, 2020 2:27pm
  - Scott
    
    Nukuleka – not I didn’t influence them. I really wanted to know what people think. But the vote of the actual church was 80% in favour of new. Its a shame and a real blow to property rights.
    
    In the spiritual I would say the building is done. To restore it for a house of worship makes no sense.
    
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    January 8, 2020 3:14pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Given they are not allowed to pull it down, surely it is more cost-effective for the Anglican Church to just leave it there as a permanent ruin and build a modern replacement somewhere else.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:45am
  - madamezucchininz
    
    …I myself have always believed it should be left as a ruin….lest we forget….the Cathedral has been thru a number of large earthquakes since the 1880’s…..even tho the decision has been made to “restore” it….nothing has been done…nothing at all and it is deteriorating all the time and it will be ten years since the September quake this year….
    
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    January 8, 2020 2:20pm
- marcw
  
  Right from 2011 the stonemasons (you know, the ones that actually know what to do for repairs) have stated that the Cathedral was repairable to it’s previous state, and with added EQ resistance. The cathedral has ALWAYS been a symbol of Christchurch – as such it deserves the extra consideration given to it for restoration. There is only one of these designs in Cathedral Square in Christchurch, so I don’t care if in the rest of the world there are others. The correct decision has been made, and I look forward to it’s reconsecration in how ever many years it takes to be restored.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:47am
- Paulus
  
  Anderton should have struck to his Catholic Basilica instead of playing politics in Christchurch, but he could never not interfere with anything.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:48am
- MCos
  
  It’s now coming up to nine years since Lancaster Park was similarly effectively destroyed.
  Just as much progress seems to have been made with physically replacing the stadium as the cathedral.
  Must be frustrating for church going Anglican rugby fans.
  At least there’s a splendid new kids’ playground that probably draws a far bigger crowd than any church, mosque or temple.
  
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  January 8, 2020 12:33pm
Sydney Alvarado

I was intrigued by this click bait in the Herald. Aborted takeoffs are not unusual. They occur every day. So what was unique here? Well nothing. I found the flight data from the first takeoff. The plane aborted the takeoff at 56 kmh and stopped in 7 seconds. That is not dramatic.

The passenger interviewed said that the same plane was involved in a second identical incident the next day. No it was not. If there was an incident it was a different aircraft.

My point is that it took me less than five minutes to determine this story was fiction. And if these “journalists” publish fiction on trivia, they will publish fiction on important issues. They cannot be trusted.
____________
“Malaysia Airlines apologises to passengers ragdolled during two aborted take-offs”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12298558
____________

“As they skidded on the runway, Singh thought another plane coming in to land was going to crash into them.“

No you did not “skid”. The wheels of planes can never lock during braking.
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January 8, 2020 8:02am
- Hollyfield
  
  I have no idea why both flights didn’t take off – but when I read the article I thought I would much rather a sudden braking while on the ground than a problem while in the air. The passenger also complained that nobody “senior” from the airline spoke to him. He is obviously far too important to speak to mere mortals.
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:54am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    Exactly. Aborted takeoffs can be for many reasons, most them minor. These moaners should thank the captain for having the good judgement not to take off. Sure the passengers were inconvenienced. But that is part of flying. Delays happen.
    
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    January 8, 2020 9:18am
- chaos
  
  I found that article interesting. Thought the person complaining should of realized those aborted take offs could of actually saved his life.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:08am
  - namron
    
    “should HAVE”
    “could HAVE”
    
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    January 8, 2020 4:01pm
slightlyrighty

I note that the Trump Impeachment is off the front page.
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January 8, 2020 8:02am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The assassination of Iranian General Qasem Soleimahas has weaved its Magic!
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:11am
- Rich Prick
  
  Well, it’s pretty embarrassing for the Democrats and their cheerleaders.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:53am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Not at all. It wil come back and bite the Orange man’s bum.
    
    Mark my words!
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:47am
    - JibberJabber
      
      LoL, prediction 1095 about Trumps impending political doomsday.
      No we won`t mark your words, we`ll just stack them in a corner with all the rest, yes?
      
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      January 8, 2020 11:10am
    - Rich Prick
      
      If you wishfully think hard enough the Orange Man will go away. A bit of feet stamping will help too.
      
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      January 8, 2020 11:43am
hullkiwi

Good morning all. Just a couple of notes from the post of Phil Quinn’s piece.

I was in Whicoulls Lynn Mall yesterday, and couldn’t see any copies of the Ardern bio;
Sadly, I caught the by-line on the said bio, who in their wildest dreams could possibly believe she is “an extraordinary leader”; and
While, i couldn’t find any copies in Whitcoulls Lynn Mall, there were 2 copies in the Warehouse Albany that got turned.
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January 8, 2020 8:05am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “an extraordinary leader”
  YUP
  It’s extraordinary how incompetent she is.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:11am
  - tf78
    
    Jacinda is just Extra Ordinary.
    
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    January 8, 2020 9:39am
    - alloytoo
      
      “How Dare You”tm
      
      Insult ordinary people like that.
      
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      January 8, 2020 10:03am
- john1234
  
  It’s not a biography. It’s a hagiography.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:54am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    It definitely has a haggraphic.
    
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    January 8, 2020 2:18pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

like a circling vulture, the nz labour party has started election year by rolling out aunty helen to criticize simon bridges and cast aspersions at Chinese sounding names. helen stops short of calling simon a part-time leader…..
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January 8, 2020 8:06am
- Tall Man
  
  The more they do it Mickey the more they show they see Simon Bridges as a real threat to their little lump of stardust.
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:52am
- JackRabbit
  
  Helen should have nothing to do with NZ. It is clear however that Jacinda is/was an apprentice of Helen.
  
  John Key stepped in every time Simon was under attack, the media would be all over it. Helen gets away with it because poor little Jacinda is a girl.
  
  Helen has had a lot to say to support Jacinda, yet I can’t recall anything of note, where Clarke Gayford has ever come out in defense of Jacinda, yet supposedly he hooked up with her because of her values. Is Jacinda the “man” in the relationship? Or is Helen Clark the man in Jacinda’s life?
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:15am
- niggly
  
  Have previous PM’s that lost office criticised current Opposition leaders? Can’t seem to recall any doing so.
  
  Seems weird of H1 to be not only commenting, but to be doing so now. What’s up, Labour, starting to panic are we?
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:18am
  - Tall Man
    
    They have been in panic mode for some time now.
    
    While a glossy facade, ardern has shown herself to be grossly incompetent so the orders went out to attack National as much as possible.
    
    They will soon learn the downside of that.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:01am
  - Lee C
    
    …because it’s different when the left do it, niggly.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:19am
  - hullkiwi
    
    niggly, they started to panic last year, when the “Year of Delivery” started to turn to custard and their attempts to paint Jacinda as an international leader of stature also turned to custard. That is she had a quiet UN because of the problems in her own office, she was a distant nowhere for the Nobel Peace Prize (behind the winner, Greta and other nominees) and the CoL’s lack of delivery meant nothing to show…..
    
    Until….some obscure Pacific Islands Group has bestowed on dear leader the title of…
    
    “Pacific Islands Business Leader of the Year”.
    
    The first non-Polynesian to be given the title, and for what?
    
    What is the bet it has more to do with behind the scenes politics, her father and for NZ taxpayers giving significant levels of aid and assistance to Pacific Island nations.
    
    Because being a business leader is not something dear leader aspires to!
    
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    January 8, 2020 11:05am
  - MCos
    
    Bill English has pretty much merged into the background, but Steven Joyce, former Minister of Finance, has been quite vocal. Of course neither of them has had the chance have a go at a Leader of the Opposition from another party.
    
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    January 8, 2020 1:24pm
    - Batman
      
      English is busy on the Board of West farmers that owns a bunch of Ag businesses. So he’s got a responsibility to not be political.
      
      Meanwhile Joyce is off the leash, so to speak.
      
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      January 8, 2020 1:56pm
- Prince
  
  Like Corbyn in the UK, NZ Labour just can’t understand why Clark was defeated. Every time she opens her mouth the luvvies swoon, but the rest of us just thank God we voted her out.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:19am
  - MCos
    
    Corbyn was never, will never be voted out because there’s no way he’ll ever be PM.
    
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    January 8, 2020 1:27pm
Jack5

A hype cloud is forming about 5G. It’s even become political with Maori claiming a share of the wireless spectrum in which it operates.

5G will be the big news at this year’s CES electronics show in Las Vegas, which I think is on this week.

Here’s a not-bad brief explanation of what 5G is:

https://www.howtogeek.com/340002/what-is-5g-and-how-fast-will-it-be/
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January 8, 2020 8:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  5G is yet to be proven to be safe. It’s commercially exciting because of increased bandwidth and speed which equates to more business opportunities. However the radiation wavelengths have been shortened to provide that and may have much greater biological affects.
  
  Have you seen noticed the grid on your microwave door? That’s to stop a lower frequency microwave escaping and damaging the user while it shakes the molecules of water in the food inside to make them hot enough to be cooked.
  This is basic science and is well known. There is a spectrum. Very high frequency waves are used as germ killers as they can penetrate packaging. Caution is needed. If I know of these risks why aren’t proponents having to prove their safety before everyone else is exposed to them? We don’t allow that risky behaviour with therapeutic goods.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:35am
  - john1234
    
    Yes it is indeed “basic science” and there is plenty of evidence that it is safe.
    
    Anti 5g is down there with anti vax and anti 1080 IMHO.
    
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    January 8, 2020 9:57am
  - Than
    
    There is a lot of wrong in here to correct, but I’ll try to mention the major mistakes.
    
    First, the claim that 5G uses shorter wavelengths is only partially true. There are three separate bands used – millimeter, mid-band, and low-band. Low-band is actually in the same part of the spectrum as existing 4G cell networks.
    
    The 5G millimeter and mid-band frequences are higher than 4G cellular, but there are still plenty of existing devices that produce these frequencies. In particular 802.11 wi-fi operates in the same 2-5 GHz as the 5G mid-band, so we’re all already being exposed to those freqencies.
    
    But the notion that “shorter wavelength = more dangerous” is false anyway. The visible light frequencies we see by are many thousands of times shorter than the highest 5G frequencies, as is the UV component of sunlight that we are bathed in every day.
    
    The bottom line is that we already have a vast amount of data on the effects of these frequencies on the human body. The specific technology of 5G is new, but these frequencies have been extensively used before in other applications, such as radar and point-to-point links. Heaps of people have already had long-term exposure to them; in particular many radio technicians and operators get exposed to them every day. If these frequencies were dangerous that would show up in the health outcomes of these professions. It doesn’t.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:28am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      “shorter wavelength = more dangerous” I wasn’t trying to make that generality.
      Thanks for your comments. It seems the actual frequency bands in the sub 6Ghz spectrum are yet to be allocated.
      Are our domestic household networks actually already transmitting about 2.5Gz and 5Gz from their modems?
      
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      January 8, 2020 1:30pm
      - Batman
        
        Yes standard wifi networks are 2.4 and 5.0
        
        2.4 giving wider coverage around the house, while 5.0 is beefier but drops coverage quicker.
        
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        January 8, 2020 1:52pm
      - cmm
        
        Wifi, Bluetooth and cordless phones are all in the 2-6GHz range, but normally well less than 1W.
        
        Microwave ovens are at 2.4GHz, but hundreds of W
        
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        January 8, 2020 2:37pm
- curry4me
  
  Cool! I’ll put that on my FB page. No alarmism, Illuminati, black helicopters, or “ah no we’re all gonna die”. thanks for posting it.
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:42pm
artemisia

The Ihumatao clock is ticking loudly for Ms Ardern.

She promised at Waitangi in 2018 that she personally and her government would be ‘held to account’.

Meanwhile in the last few days 3 arrests for obstructing police at Ihumatao. Slightly damp bus tickets will be in high demand.
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January 8, 2020 8:06am
- Prince
  
  Nah, a couple of sausies for breakfast and Maoridom will bow down again.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:21am
- hullkiwi
  
  Like the 10,000 hones to be built for Maoridom. As she said judge her on her delivery….
  
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  January 8, 2020 11:07am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Think of all the houses at Ihumatao that will now not be built, many of whom would have been for Maori, and it will still be on hold at the end of the year. I mean how far do you go to lose the next election? Or is she saving a grandiose entrance at Ihumatao until election time?
    
    I am beginning to think that Jacinda was actually sent here from the future, from a world on the brink of annihilation caused by the Extinction Rebellion and Climate Change numpties. The actions taken by said groups created environmental damage, collapsed world economies, and destroyed energy generation.
    
    Jacindinator was probably sent back to infiltrate the Labour party, then going out of her way to break every promise Labour made, so they get voted out at the next election with a landslide to National / Act so that the grip Labour has on stupidity can be released.
    
    I mean no-one could be stupid enough to deliver nothing at all, and contradict herself at every turn.
    
    Has to be a futuristic plot, aka Netflix travelers. 😉
    
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    January 8, 2020 12:51pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    The hone mariodoom have got is more than enough . . .
    
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    January 8, 2020 2:49pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Paulus, typo, read “homes”. But I like “Hone Maoridoom”.
      
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      January 8, 2020 4:09pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Yeah I know, but a poke at New Zealand’s biggest most vociferous racist is just too good to pass up.
        
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        January 8, 2020 6:51pm
MrTips

Random thought: ScoMo hasn’t played his best hand in the fires, but he seems to be trying now.
Meanwhile, cricket Australia, the Sydney business community (NY fireworks) and the Aussie tennis open all seem to practically carry on without a care or donation, yet. And the Greens and other fucked pollies still pretend to be human and get away with it too.

Australia is losing its mind it would seem.
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January 8, 2020 8:11am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Australian cricket is doing its bit. Lots of donations at the Sydney test. Aussie cricketers are donating per wickets taken and sixes hit. Shane Warne is auctioning a test cap (current bid $375,000).
  I can’t say how accurate your other assertions might be.
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:52am
- MCos
  
  Much as I’d hoped the cricket would have been cancelled, unless the playing conditions were substandard there’s no point in calling cricket, football, basketball, tennis off.
  Apart from anything else it’s not going to make the fires go away.
  
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  January 8, 2020 1:36pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Australia is losing its mind it would seem
  
  Here’s hoping 183 arsonists lose their liberty.
  
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  January 8, 2020 3:43pm
  - MCos
    
    From the article
    “Police arrested 183 people for lighting bushfires across Queensland, NSW, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania in the past few months. NSW police data shows 183 people have been charged or cautioned for bushfire-related offences since November 8, and 24 arrested for deliberately starting bushfires.”
    So, 24 arsonists. The others for related offences. A bit of loose language there.
    
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    January 8, 2020 5:31pm
    - curry4me
      
      The penalty for arson should be life with no parole.
      
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      January 8, 2020 8:44pm
jcuk

Happy 8th everybody
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January 8, 2020 8:18am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Happy Typing Day!
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:56am
- MCos
  
  Suzanne Aubert arrived in Wellington on the 6th Jan 1899
  Her Sisters of Compassion set up the first crèche for little kiddies so their solo Mums could go off to work for the day.
  
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  January 8, 2020 1:47pm
Tricati

I see the negative election campaign from Labour starting early with ex PM Helen Clark having a dig at Simon Bridges.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118639454/helen-clark-questions-national-mp-jian-yang-planning-simon-bridges-china-trip
I suspect we will see plenty of this from the left, aided by a compliant MSM, over the coming months.
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January 8, 2020 8:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I thought it was odd that an ex-Chinese spy was organsing the Leader of the Opposition’s trip to China. But, then again, what’s the use of having a CCP member in parliament if you don’t use him to suck up to the Beijing dictators?
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:58am
  - Prince
    
    What is it about China, and Asia in general, that seems to trigger Labour so badly ?
    You’d almost think it was racist.
    I suspect it is the Asian work ethic.
    
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    January 8, 2020 9:23am
  - Than
    
    That’s the spirit mikenmildagain, throw in as many racist dogwhistle terms as you can, to make sure people are good and terrified of that nasty yellow-peril. I’d suggest you missed out “slant-eyed”.
    
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    January 8, 2020 9:47am
    - Minsk400
      
      There’s a difference between being critical of the Chinese Communist Party and disliking Chinese people. The CCP is a political party which is fair game.
      
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      January 8, 2020 11:00am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Correct. There is nothing racist about condemning the desperation with which our major political parties queue up to fellate the Beijing dictators.
        Chinese people can be our friends. We can do business with China, but we should never kid ourselves that the CCP leaders are our friends. Our politicians know this, but have persuaded themselves that it is in our national interest to take China’s money and do her bidding.
        
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        January 8, 2020 12:50pm
      - Billy Collins
        
        Accusing people of being stooges for communists without any evidence just because they are Chinese or have a Chinese-sounding name is definitely bigoted.
        
        That’s what Mike did.
        
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        January 8, 2020 1:53pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s no correct, Billy. I’m accusing people of being stooges for communists because they are communists, or at the very least communist funded.
        
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        January 8, 2020 2:54pm
      - Than
        
        LOL, sure, you’re purely concerned about the Chinese regime and its human rights record. Not at all Asian-bashing for political advantage. Tui ad.
        
        Keep trying to convince yourselves on this, but you’re certainly not convincing anybody else.
        
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        January 8, 2020 6:04pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        It’s odd the mikenmild is so silent about Labour MP Raymond Huo:
        
        RAYMOND HUO MAINTAINS DECISION WAS PROCEDURAL
        
        Huo has featured in Brady’s research on China’s influence in New Zealand.
        
        Brady’s Magic Weapons paper named Huo as someone who “works very closely with PRC representatives in New Zealand” and had connections to the United Front, a Chinese government department that promotes the CCP’s values at home and with the Chinese diaspora.
        
        The implication by National was Huo did not want Brady to submit to the committee due to this connection. However, Huo has always maintained the decision was procedural.
        
        Submissions had already closed when members received Brady’s request, and the committee seldom accepted late submissions – “no matter how important the professor, or anyone else, is we do have a process to follow”, he said.
        
        When the committee heard from the New Zealand Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) and Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) earlier this month on foreign interference, Huo was not present.
        
        At the time, he told Newsroom he was travelling, and had been granted leave for the day. It’s since become clear he asked to be excused that day due to the perceptions and controversy.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112337573/labour-mp-raymond-huo-steps-down-as-chair-to-avoid-conflict-claims
        
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        January 18, 2020 3:07pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Whereas ardern, already being a communist, doesn’t suck up to anyone?
    
    A rather vacuuming thought that’s hard to rid oneself of.
    
    26 3
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    January 8, 2020 9:58am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Why don’t you ask the Labour Party, and Raymond Huo?
    
    25 1
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    January 8, 2020 10:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I have, frequently. Were you not paying attention? Whether it’s Raymond Huo translating “Let’s do this” to resemble one of Xi Jinping’s slogans, or Todd McLay describing the concentration camps as ‘vocational training centres’, Labour and National are completely owned by quislings.
      
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      January 8, 2020 12:53pm
  - rouppe
    
    “Spy”, from “trained Chinese spies”, from “taught English to spies”.
    
    If that logic train holds, then it must be true that the “National Socialist German Workers Party” really was socialist and not right wing after all.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:47am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Spy is a convenient shorthand for someone who taught at the Luoyang People’s Liberation Army University of Foreign Languages, lied about it in coming to New Zealand, and remains a member of the communist party.
      But maybe I should use the term ‘asset’ instead, as what he does is not secret.
      
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      January 8, 2020 12:56pm
- Gazza the Giant
  
  LOL I see today he is off for a trip to the Phillipines along the same lines today
  
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  January 18, 2020 1:59pm
otago-man

5 degrees overnight in the deep south, two days of a high of 13 degrees — I suppose global warming caused this along with every thing else it supposedly causes
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January 8, 2020 8:26am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  But how cold is it is Gippsland?
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:59am
  - Jules99
    
    27 deg C, cool for the time year. Looked it up on the weather channel.
    
    27 1
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    January 8, 2020 9:49am
- tedbear
  
  I’m going to write to TVNZ and ask them to scrap their weather forecasts, From now on they must be presented as climate change forecasts.
  
  39 3
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  January 8, 2020 9:03am
  - Prince
    
    And change their name to TV Aotearoa.
    
    21 1
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    January 8, 2020 9:24am
    - Paulus
      
      Isn’t it already ?
      This is the new MSM movement in 2020 to change everything to Maori – and they are doing very well so far.
      
      14 1
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      January 8, 2020 10:52am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Don’t laugh/mock, I’ve seen emails from a govt agency referring to themselves by their Maori big-name rather than their official title.
        
        10 2
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        January 8, 2020 11:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It prodably is its official title, Maori being an official language last time I checked.
        
        1 16
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        January 8, 2020 12:57pm
- Clyde
  
  Its really cold and that’s for sure. Fruit picking is way behind and exporters getting grumpy.
  
  21 2
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  January 8, 2020 9:18am
- tedbear
  
  You can expect more nights and days like that until everyone’s driving electric vehicles.
  
  13 2
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  January 8, 2020 9:38am
  - Tall Man
    
    Just burn plastic.
    
    16 3
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    January 8, 2020 9:52am
- tedbear
  
  Another thing that puzzles me..as CO2 is invisible how can you tell which CO2 is natural and which is pollution.
  
  22 3
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  January 8, 2020 9:41am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Greta can see the bad CO2s, and she can tell which are yours.
    
    35 2
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    January 8, 2020 9:58am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      any dog can tell who farted, just by the smell…
      Just thought I’d throw in a comment, just as irrelevant as Greta.
      
      21 4
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      January 8, 2020 10:30am
  - ronsegal
    
    It is possible to tell by identifying the proportion of natural vs human derived CO2, based on different isotopic content.
    E.g. https://www.bgc-jena.mpg.de/service/iso_gas_lab/publications/PG_WB_IJMS.pdf
    
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    January 8, 2020 11:38am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Ha!
      
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      January 8, 2020 12:58pm
  - ronsegal
    
    My own catastrophic AGW scepticism has required a huge amount of (still ongoing) study to try to distinguish facts from emotive distortion (frustratingly difficult). There seems no doubt that humans are causing significant, ongoing increases in atmospheric CO2, which we should try to curtail as technology and economics reasonably permit. The scepticism is more to do with whether alleged positive feedback mechanisms amplify the impact of such tiny proportions of atmospheric composition (0.04% with human contribution around 30% of that 0.04%), causing alarmingly large temperature increases vs much smaller ones, and whether other, possibly more important mechanisms are at play such as earth’s magnetic dipole perturbations.
    
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    January 8, 2020 11:56am
    - cmm
      
      There’s also this massive Sun thing that belts us with varying amounts of electromagnetic radiation as well as varying amounts of protons (aka hydrogen ions) which impact on atmospheric chemistry.
      
      Although the sun is further away than the earth beneath our feet, we have been studying the sun as a whole item for a lot longer than the earth.
      
      Whole-disk solar weather has been tracked since 1755 – that’s 265 years. We have only had whole-planet earth weather tracking since the 1970s or so – 50 years.
      
      On top of that, the sun is much larger and more uniform (no seas, land masses etc). As a general principle this means it should be, and is, far easier to model the solar weather than the earth’s weather.
      
      Yet what do we see: the sun is still highly variable and unpredictable. The nominal 11-year solar cycles have varied from 7 to 14 years in the 24 cycles measured so far.
      
      We also see that the solar models constructed by the experts (and the consensus they form) are broken.
      
      So, if we have problem getting the modelling right for a relatively simple body with 265 years of data, then why do earth scientists have the audacity to presume their models of a much more complex body (Earth) with less than a fifth of the data?
      
      We seem to hold the position that the earth has stable weather patterns and all changes must be due to man made influences, yet somehow the weather on the sun and on the other planets changes with no human input.
      
      What is clear is that the “science” of climate science is far from scientific.
      
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      January 8, 2020 3:11pm
Simon

On 3 October 2015, US airstrikes destroyed our trauma hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan, killing 42 people

Our hospital was the only facility of its kind in northeastern Afghanistan;

Since opening the hospital in 2011, more than 15,000 surgeries were conducted and more than 68,000 emergency patients were treated.

In only a few years, the hospital had become a life-line for people in Kunduz and the surrounding provinces.

Starting at 2:08am on Saturday 3 October, a United States AC-130 gunship fired 211 shells on the main hospital building where patients were sleeping in their beds or being operated on in the operating theatre.

At least 42 people were killed, including 24 patients, 14 staff and 4 caretakers. Thirty-seven people were injured.

Our patients burned in their beds, our medical staff were decapitated or lost limbs. Others were shot from the air while they fled the burning building.

The attack from the air lasted for around one hour. The main hospital building came under precise and repeated airstrikes, while the surrounding buildings were left mostly untouched.

Throughout the airstrikes our teams desperately called military authorities to stop the attack.

https://www.msf.org/kunduz-hospital-attack-depth

Imagine if Trump had done this. Rachel Maddow would have shat herself on live TV. But Obama…..

Trump takes out the terrorist general not the hospital.

Thats why the Dems, MSM , the left & Never Trump are a joke.
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January 8, 2020 8:28am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Great whataboutism. Can’t criticise Trump if another president sanctioned a war crime.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:00am
  - john1234
    
    You can always tell when lefties have had their hypocrisy exposed.
    
    “Squawk! Whataboutism! Squawk!”
    
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    January 8, 2020 9:49am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    It seems to me that Simon was highlighting the hypocrisy of the treatment of both Presidents.
    Mike, you seem to read into nearly every post, something that is not there.
    
    22 2
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    January 8, 2020 9:58am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It’s his specialty; shadow-boxing.
      
      19 3
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      January 8, 2020 10:35am
  - kloyd0306
    
    ….and creepy quid pro Joe wants war criminal Saint Obama on the Supreme Court.
    
    16 1
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    January 8, 2020 10:24am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The Obama administration apologised and paid comoensation something narcissist Trump could never do!
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:15am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I don’t recall reading about Obama rotting away in a jail cell.
    
    17 2
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    January 8, 2020 9:54am
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Like those before him, Bush, Clintion , Reagan etc
      
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      January 8, 2020 10:49am
stigie

Crikey, 8.30 and still no comments, are you commenters still in bed..?
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January 8, 2020 8:30am
- Tall Man
  
  Takes a lot of energy to create pointless backlogs in order to weed out inflammatory comments……….
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:55am
G152

It’s the new religion.
All hail the sun and give your money to the priests (sorry, I mean the
climate scientists) who will do stuff.
And those who make prophetic calls. i.e end of world no more food
starving migrants flooding some where.
And none of those ever come true.
But now we have the virgin mother who will bear a Saviour to fix it all.
Yup, Greta is going to, from her obvious physical and mental under
development, save us all but only if we REALLY REALLY BELIEVE —– and
give money…
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January 8, 2020 8:31am
- JackRabbit
  
  >>>”… All hail the sun and give your money to the priests”
  
  Used to be sun gods, because in ancient times, in absence of modern science, they accepted that the Sun had the most control over weather and outcome of crops. Now it is cows farting.
  
  Intelligence (IQ) is not a measure of how smart you are in reference to university degrees. The test of intelligence is the application of knowledge to survival. Intelligence has not risen all that much over the centuries except according the 80/20 rule. The vast majority are still sheep lead by whoever tells them what they want to hear.
  
  Trojan Horse/Pied Piper of Hamlin/Emperors new Clothes/Socialism/Nazism/Stalinism/Maoism/Bernie Madoff/Jacindamania/Tree Huggers Inc/Cretanism/Stinky Rebellion (most of them look unwashed) and the list goes on.
  
  In the stock market they say that when your taxi driver or mailman gives you a tip about some good stock to buy, it is not good stock anymore and time to sell up quick.
  
  In politics, when movie stars start being vocal about a cause, the cause is probably very suspect. Especially if it is all talk and no personal commitment. Global warming is getting press from movie stars – so very suspect.
  
  Unless of course the stars have dug deep and reduced their own wealth to support it. As in the case of Australian actors who have donated heavily to the bush fire efforts. They own land in Australia and know well that maintenance of the bush is paramount to preventing bush fires, not attacking Australia because they export coal. Which ironically the rest of the world depends on to stay alive.
  
  Loud mouths from the USA, who are attacking Australia over the bush fires, clearly don’t appreciate that 80% of the USA energy needs come from Petroleum, Natural Gas and Coal. There’s nothing like attacking the legs of the chair you are sitting in.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:47am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    In the US, electric cars are mostly coal-fired cars.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:03am
    - JackRabbit
      
      In NZ the same people who insist that petrol cars should be banned, and electric cars given massive subsidies are the same ones who squeal over building new dams to supply the extra power required.
      
      There is some dame in charge of a South Pacific country who has banned future oil exploration, that will provide exports and revenue to pay for energy they import from overseas. Go figure. Oh crap… that’s NZ
      
      24 1
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      January 8, 2020 10:39am
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Odakyu-sen, wrong !
      
      US energy sources :
      
      Natural gas: 31.8%
      Petroleum (crude oil and natural gas plant liquids): 28%
      Coal: 17.8%
      Renewable energy: 12.7%
      Nuclear electric power: 9.6%”
      
      https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/what-are-major-sources-and-users-energy-united-states
      
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      January 8, 2020 10:54am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        In the US, electric cars are mostly hydrocarbon-fired cars.
        
        There. Fixed it for you.
        
        16 1
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        January 8, 2020 11:10am
      - JackRabbit
        
        No Stiffyboy,
        
        Odakyu-sen is right!
        
        Do proper research instead of being an idiot! Makes you look like a 18 year old who cheated on exams.
        
        From the horses mouth:
        https://www.e-education.psu.edu/eme801/node/490
        
        Electricity is created from:
        Coal: 48%
        Natural Gas: 22%
        Nuclear 19%
        Hydro: 6%
        Renewable: 3%
        Other (incl petroleum): 2%
        
        So Electric cars get 48% of electricity from coal, the largest source of electricity.
        
        Again, Odakyu-sen is right!
        
        15 1
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        January 8, 2020 11:26am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Those stats I supplied are for Electric cars, charged only from the grid. It does not take into account Hybrid cars, which are Petrol Powered, which constitute the bulk of cars with electric motors.
        
        10 1
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        January 8, 2020 11:29am
      - Minsk400
        
        That is correct, but the figures you quote are for energy, on the left hand side of the graphic. If you look at the breakdown for the electricity sector to the right, the actual proportions are:
        Petroleum: 1%
        Natural gas: 25%
        Coal: 34%
        Renewable energy: 17%
        Nuclear electric power: 23%
        So non-fossil fuel electricity production is 40% total, and coal-fired electricity is 1/3. Note these numbers are from 2017, so things may have changed.
        
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        January 8, 2020 11:36am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Minsk400
        
        I assume you are replying to Stephieboy2’s stats.
        My stats indicate 70% of electricity generation comes from “non-renewable” sources.
        
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        January 8, 2020 12:56pm
      - cmm
        
        Stephie: Energy sources are not the same as electricity generation sources.
        
        All EVs are charged from electricity unless they are plug-in hybrids which are often classed as EVs (for all the subsidies etc) but are just used as hybrids for the convenience.
        
        Much of the natural gas that shows up in the energy budget does not get burned for electricity but is directly burned as gas for heating etc
        
        4 1
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        January 8, 2020 3:16pm
      - alloytoo
        
        About half of the “Renewable energy” is derived from Bio-Fuel (IE: burning something)
        
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        January 8, 2020 5:48pm
JibberJabber

Apparently drugged up celebs like Phoenix, Arquette and others(t00 many to list) have VITAL political statements that the great unwashed must heed in their ignorance,

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ricky-gervais-golden-globes-jokes-metoo-greta-thunberg-isis-climate-change-a9272581.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1578345870
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January 8, 2020 8:31am
- Classic Liberal
  
  What a pathetic lie: “schoolboy jokes about paedophiles.”
  
  He did no such thing! He was showing Hollywood what they really are: friends with paedophiles and prepared to cover up what really happens.
  
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  January 8, 2020 5:40pm
oldpark

Seems over in Iran with massive crowds screaming “Death to Americans” at a send off for the Terrorist Qassem Soleimani,someone farted causing the crowd to panic with a stampede. The results many deaths and injuries. With results like that, who needs drones with missiles attached.Go figure.
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January 8, 2020 8:32am
- G152
  
  Did you watch the American news crew in the middle of the ‘death to America’ parade ???
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:22am
  - kevn
    
    @G152… and did you notice the absence of women there? Most unsafe for them of course… surrounded by angry ‘red misted’ males.
    
    12 1
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    January 8, 2020 11:38am
    - Paulus
      
      Wasn’t the Coffin carried in a US made Chevvy truck
      at one of the funeral parades?
      
      11 1
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      January 8, 2020 1:19pm
- Simon
  
  Imagine living in such a shit hole country you are forced to go to a funeral of some loser terrorist / murder and then being crushed to death.
  
  That’s the left’s promise for the world right there.
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:32am
  - Batman
    
    ‘forced’ is probably a stretch. He’s basically a hero in Iran. A life size cutout of him greets people at the airport!
    
    1 27
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    January 8, 2020 9:41am
    - Tall Man
      
      Did he get one delivered to the families of his victims as well?
      
      Asking for a friend.
      
      13 2
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      January 8, 2020 9:55am
    - john1234
      
      Wake up. He’s a hero to a whipped up faction of the backward.
      
      There is a large educated sector in Iran that loath him and the fundamentalists. They blame them for Iran’s slide backwards but cannot speak out as they would be persecuted.
      
      21 1
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      January 8, 2020 10:10am
      - john1234
        
        Further to above:
        https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/118613077/irans-quiet-voices-of-peace-need-to-speak-up
        
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        January 8, 2020 10:13am
- curry4me
  
  They’re taking turns at that with Harveywood.
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:51pm
MCos

Defense Secretary confirms President Trump is full of shit.

“Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper sought to douse an international outcry on Monday by ruling out military attacks on cultural sites in Iran if the conflict with Tehran escalates further, despite President Trump’s threat to destroy some of the country’s treasured icons.
Mr. Esper acknowledged that striking cultural sites with no military value would be a war crime, putting him at odds with the president, who insisted such places would be legitimate targets.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/us/politics/trump-esper-iran-cultural-sites.html
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January 8, 2020 8:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  ~~NYT~~ JIT (Journalists Interviewing Typewriters.)
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:48am
  - fernglas
    
    Trump himself has now ruled it out, albeit somewhat reluctantly.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:22am
  - MCos
    
    It’s not an opinion piece in the NYT, Kev.
    The less than fawning description of President Trump was mine.
    
    1 9
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    January 8, 2020 11:09am
toby1845

8.38, and nothing up yet.
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January 8, 2020 8:38am
curry4me

I don’t suppose you need to go first class if you’re dead.
https://pluralist.com/qassem-soleimani-remains-flown-iran-coach/47777/?fbclid=IwAR1cMHkNkR19qP6ScShw78lb7T7SDC80tDghJFQRZFUsG2Eo_zrOmZGd5BA
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January 8, 2020 8:39am
- godruelf
  
  From the reports on the effectiveness of Mr Hellfire they probably could have taken him as Carry On
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:16am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJNV1VyvXk
How China’s spies became world class. China Uncensored nails it again.
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January 8, 2020 8:39am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctd0S2BVpDo
How the Norf went Tory. Sargon at his best.
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January 8, 2020 8:42am
Captain Mainwaring

42 minutes and nobody home.
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January 8, 2020 8:42am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Aha, another 14 minutes and the mods are in overdrive.
  Thanks mods.
  
  21 1
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  January 8, 2020 8:56am
Ruahine

If ‘Maori’ are to be given part of NZs 5G spectrum will their health not be affected.
https://www.electricsense.com/5g-radiation-dangers/
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January 8, 2020 8:59am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s those persons exposed to the higher frequency radiation who are at risk not the commercial owners of the networks.
  If they have got it wrong, like thalidomaide in the past, no amount of financial damages will be able to compensate.
  To my knowledge they are flying in the face of long established science which suggests ultra caution. Why do our household microwaves have screens? Are they to keep us out or the microwaves in?
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:56am
  - cmm
    
    “Why do our household microwaves have screens? Are they to keep us out or the microwaves in?”
    
    Huge difference: Microwave ovens operate at hundreds of Watts; cell phone towers at a milliWatts.
    
    Only technicians trick when testing microwave towers was to put your hand in the wave guide and “feel the burn” – much easier than lugging 20kg of test gear up a ladder. These days it’s just a wee gizzmo that can fit in your pocket.
    
    The idea that lots of X is bad, therefore small amounts of X is also bad is broken. We all need oxygen and cyanide in the right amounts, but the wrong amounts will kill. Use oxygen instead of air for a 30 metre scuba dive and you’re dead.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:54am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    5G is non-ionising radiation that mostly can’t even get through your dead skin (epidermis) due to something called the ‘skin effect’. It is no different from the low frequency ambient photonic radiation that permeates your world. An atom doesn’t care if a photon comes from a radio or random noise. At most adding a fraction of a watt of 5G to your skin adds an imperceptible amount of heating. Dump the tinfoil hat, there are other things in your world that are actually dangerous – like bees.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:58am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Actually the radiation does affect some people. It may be rare but high-power WAP’s can trigger migraine headaches in some people.
      
      On this I speak from an actual case. We installed a new Ubiquiti WAP at one site, and one person was immediately affected. Because I doubted the affect, I carried out a series of blind tests, around 10 times the person was asked if the device was off or on when it was hidden from them. They were 100% accurate on the status. As a final “trick” I managed to setup the unit so the LED on it that indicated whether it was on or off could be independently controlled, so I put it back where it was visible, with the unit off but with the light on. And the person correctly identified that the unit was off despite being apparently on. This last test because a lot of people rely on subconscious clues and can’t really tell as they think they can.
      
      Solution was to put in 2 lower powered devices in a mesh, there seemed to be a trigger threshold for this person. Below a certain level the symptoms very rarely manifested. The Ubiquiti device was significantly higher powered than the usual units we had been using.
      
      So although this is not a full double-blind scientific test, it demonstrated to me that it is likely that some people are sensitive to radiation in the 5 GHz range, and as such there is a mechanism for some form of harm. I have no idea how prevalent this sensitivity is.
      
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      January 8, 2020 2:48pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I have been involved with health issues and your report is similar to others. It may be that there is a significant group of sensitive people.
        My household uses wifi without obvious concerns.
        
        4 0
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        January 8, 2020 4:47pm
- cmm
  
  Dude, only colonial spectrum is carcinogenic.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:14am
Tall Man

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/aoc-joe-biden-would-not-be-in-the-same-party-2020-1?op=1&r=US&IR=T

There we have it, AOC sees herself as an ardernist…….

We’ve all known for ages that they are cut from the same cloth, vacuous women without intellect but committed to the destruction of anything they don’t like or comprehend.
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January 8, 2020 9:02am
Chris2

Somewhat ironic that even in death, Soleimani is responsible for the death of 50 of his own people in Iran, killed in a stampede at his funeral.

But the stampede is also a reflection of the country too, and the inability of its people to conduct themselves in a civilised manner, even at a funeral.
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January 8, 2020 9:02am
- Lee C
  
  .
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:21am
Maggy Wassilieff

Golriz Ghahraman and Wayne Mapp RNZ interviews on Iran

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/summerreport/audio/2018729277/green-party-says-risk-for-nz-troops-in-iraq-is-growing

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/summerreport/audio/2018729280/former-defence-minister-calls-killing-of-soleimani-reckless
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January 8, 2020 9:04am
MCos

Here’s a news article from Bangkok with some distinctly Thai overtones concerning a former Immigration Chief called Big Joke whose Lexus was shot up while he was being indulged in a popular red light area.
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1142076-eight-shots-fired-at-big-jokes-car-former-immigration-chief-unhurt/?utm_source=newsletter-20200107-1202&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news
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January 8, 2020 9:11am
- curry4me
  
  There used to be another personality in Thai politics in the 80s called ATM.
  
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  January 8, 2020 8:57pm
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
From a TM poster re Aussie Bushfires

3-year long drought? – check ✔️
Insane heat 40+ ? – Check ✔️
High winds? – Check ✔️
Multiple Arsonists? – Check ✔️

“Bushfires? Wow! Colour me surprised”

https://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1825794&topic=7

Brilliant! Kneecaps silly climate denial looniness!
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January 8, 2020 9:18am
- mandk
  
  Failure to maintain fire breaks and access for fire fighting vehicles? CHECK
  
  btw – how are arsonists caused by climate change?
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:43am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “btw – how are arsonists caused by climate change?”
    
    Easy. The narrative of Climate Change dictates that bush fires MUST get worse. Therefore, this MUST be made to happen.
    If nature won’t do what the narrative dictates, then she shall be given a helping hand.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:06am
  - alloytoo
    
    Well if they are Greenies……
    
    Given the behavior of 1080 protestors, I wouldn’t be surprised.
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And the factor missing from your checklist? – FUEL
  
  A fire needs FUEL.
  
  A large volume of Fuel leads to long, intense , very hot fires in forests
  
  If there is a tiny volume of fuel a forest fire is likely to burn out quickly.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/118600064/australian-bushfires-nsw-environment-minister-calls-for-more-hazard-reduction-in-nationals-parks
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:07am
- cmm
  
  “Insane heat 40+ ?”
  
  No that is temperature, not heat. Heat is energy, measured in Joules, not degrees.
  
  PS: You forgot the LOL.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:12am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejorQVy3m8E
    Written in 1987
    “…..steamin’ 45 deg…..”
    So stephie admits that the Aussie temperatures have fallen over the past 30 odd years?
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:25am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Insane Heat.
    I get 40 plus and don’t have any air con, not exactly insane just fairly warm, but bearable for the few I get. No humidity with makes huge difference.
    40c in many parts of Australia is normal in Australia.
    Marble Bar holds the old 100F record for 160 consecutive days over the old ton in 1924.
    Top temperatures are tad over 50c shared by Mardie and Oodnadatta.
    
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    January 8, 2020 12:03pm
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Looking back from the perspective of a volunteer fire fighter,

“In Australia, climate denial goes up in smoke”

OPINION: Much of Australia’s forested East Coast was already on fire by the time images emerged last month of Scott Morrison, our prime minister, holidaying in Hawaii.

Sydney was blanketed in smoke. I’d been frantically updating emergency-services maps, checking on friends and relatives in four states, making sure my parents knew which kind of masks to get.

I wondered whether Morrison realised he was on the verge of a Hurricane Katrina moment – whether he would rush back with a swift response, if only out of fear for his own political reputation.
“I don’t hold a hose, mate,” he said on talk radio from Hawaii. “I don’t sit in a control room.”

Like many volunteer firefighters, I am furious. Six months before the fires, and then again in September, Morrison declined to meet with a group of former fire chiefs who wanted to warn him that an emergency like this was on the horizon….”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/118605229/in-australia-climate-denial-goes-up-in-smoke
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January 8, 2020 9:30am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Lol Stephie, a “firefighter” who took the opportunity to bag fossil fuels and screech climate change.
  Here is some news for you. Fire control is an issue that State Governments are meant to look after. And of course, State Governments have the usual smattering of do-gooder Green whack jobs and stop controlled burns, create CO2 sinks, prevent clearing of fire breaks. Read the story of Liam Sheahan, a fireman.
  Read this, a warning from 2009: https://www.smh.com.au/environment/green-ideas-must-take-blame-for-deaths-20090211-84mk.html?fbclid=IwAR2iOy7ZBVsKhQX42XTPfaERK-fDUvRj5NGwJ06uVPZMDJVREnPiYvUUuCo
  There is also this marvellous para:
  “Never let it be forgotten that the people most responsible for the disastrous and dangerous policy preventing Australian home-owners from clearing their own land are the shrill, bullying, anti-scientific, anti-human activists of the green movement. Every time these virtue-signalling prats appear on Twitter or TV whining about all the animals killed, they deserve a slap in the face with a burned koala; if any human deserves blame for this tragedy, it’s stupid greenies like themselves”.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:13am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    In Vino Veritas, read my link again,
    
    “An opinion piece by a volunteer firefighter:”
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/118605229/in-australia-climate-denial-goes-up-in-smoke
    
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    January 8, 2020 11:02am
    - rangitoto
      
      A least one volunteer firefighter has been charged with arson starting bush fires.
      
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      January 8, 2020 2:20pm
  - sam green
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12298981
    
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    January 8, 2020 10:09pm
- yossarian
  
  You do realise that citing Stuff adds absolutely no validity to your argument.
  
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  January 8, 2020 11:09am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    yossarian,
    
    Why ?
    
    And others do when it suits especially if of an anti Jacinda flavour
    
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    January 8, 2020 12:46pm
    - yossarian
      
      Because Stuff has categorically stated that it will not allow any debate on Climate Change. Using Stuff as your basis for a Climate Change argument is like using CNN as the consensus of how the American public feel about Trump…It holds absolute no value.
      
      Yes others do use Stuff, but without researching ever post, I would hazard to guess that they use a Stuff article as a basis of how poor NZ MSM is.
      
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      January 8, 2020 6:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Here’s a headline (and article ) I never expected to see in Stuff

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/118649242/its-time-to-crack-down-on-cyclists-and-ban-them-from-main-highways
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January 8, 2020 9:45am
- Tall Man
  
  Clickbait 😉
  
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  January 8, 2020 9:52am
Fletch

Paul Joseph Watson on the Ozzie fires. A lot of it comes down to foolish Green policies and arsonists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_tn8f0uaB4
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January 8, 2020 9:53am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Paul Joseph Watson?? Alex Jones side kick!
  
  LOL
  
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  January 8, 2020 11:04am
  - rangitoto
    
    Stephieboy2?? LOL
    
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    January 8, 2020 2:21pm
- sam green
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12298981
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:10pm
cmm

Oh dear! Hugzilla’s international magic isn’t working…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/118649585/new-zealand-passport-not-as-powerful-anymore-japan-holds-top-spot
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January 8, 2020 10:08am
- Stephieboy2
  
  cmm, a bit of perspective
  
  From your link!
  
  9. New Zealand, Malta, Czech Republic, Canada and Australia, 183
  
  Sad individual!
  
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  January 8, 2020 11:11am
  - cmm
    
    But during the Year of Delivery our passport lost power. Fitting: along with tree planting delivering $4000 bags of compost etc.
    
    It it drops further I’ll have to apply for my Canukistani passport.
    
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    January 8, 2020 12:04pm
Pongo

Bit of chatter about Kiwibank buying the BNZ, sounds crazy but why not ?
Have the state buy it and merge so there is the scale needed then allow ACC to increase its stake, have the Cullen fund take a slice and float the rest on the market where there is huge demand.
Would probably single handedly increase business confidence and guarantee Ardern a 2nd term and international admiration.
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January 8, 2020 10:27am
- Colville
  
  but Labour would have to campaign against themselves as the state selling off state assets is BAD especially when selling off 49% stakes AKA John Key (who eats babies).
  
  Isnt Kiwibank a bit of a joke tho?
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:42am
  - Minsk400
    
    Best and most consistently low mortgage rates last year, according to interest.co.nz
    
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    January 8, 2020 11:03am
    - Paulus
      
      Cheap Mortgage at taxpayers supported expense.
      
      7 3
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      January 8, 2020 1:24pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      I don’t think they make a profit though, but have to say haven’t checked lately.
      
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      January 8, 2020 2:55pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I have moved the majority of my banking to Kiwi Bank several years ago. I find them very good.
    I still have a small current account with ANZ and ASB too.
    
    8 2
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    January 8, 2020 12:38pm
  - tf78
    
    It’s an expensive laughing stock just like Kiwibuild.
    
    2 1
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    January 8, 2020 7:43pm
- Paulus
  
  How much will it cost the Taxpayer to capitalise the new BNZ (Kiwi) Bank.
  And at least Kiwibank will get some professional staff.
  And we will then have again in a new form a Bank of New Zealand.
  Just what Ardern wants.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:55am
- cmm
  
  Naah. Kiwibank only buys shitty “investments” like the outfit Morgan couldn’t offload on anyone else.
  
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  January 8, 2020 10:57am
tedbear

A band of australian ex-fire chiefs are calling on their govt to stop digging up coal and exporting it to places like China. They also want the govt to close down coal fired power stations and replace them with solar panel farms.
The bit these morons clearly haven’t realised, a high percentage of the solar panels they want are manufactured in China from australian coal.
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January 8, 2020 10:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  South Australia closed down its coal-fired Power Station.
  Hasn’t stopped bushfires in South Australia.
  
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  January 8, 2020 11:17am
  - skyblue
    
    However it has stopped supply of electricity from time to time.
    
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    January 8, 2020 12:46pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    And did anyone claim that closing that power station would prevent bushfires?
    
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    January 8, 2020 1:23pm
    - rangitoto
      
      No. You would have to pay some tax to Cindy to stop Bushfires and save the world.
      
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      January 8, 2020 2:26pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Thanks. Thought not. I wonder why Maggy tried to make that link.
        
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        January 8, 2020 6:14pm
- Wired-one
  
  Australia contribute 1.7% of global carbon emissions, we contribute 0.17%. Nothing changes unless the U.S, India, China and Brazil step up to the plate and frankly they wont anytime soon. Some of you may have noticed that many of these recent protests have turned away from purely climate change and have started to demand the end of capitalism also. What a surprise…
  
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  January 8, 2020 2:14pm
- cmm
  
  They should promote grinding up the eucalyptus trees and sending them to UK for biomass.
  
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  January 8, 2020 3:21pm
Swifty

Happy New Year to all.

A quiet night here in Avondale with just a few locals around for a couple of quiets….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYKNnCltuy0
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January 8, 2020 10:32am
Nigel Kearney

Heh.

https://www.hawley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2020-01/Hawley-Resolution-Amending-Senate-Impeachment-Rules.pdf

Resolved, That rule I of the Rules of Procedure and Practice in the Senate When Sitting on Impeachment Trials is amended to read as follows:

…

If, following adoption of such articles, the House of Representatives does not so notify the Senate or otherwise provide for such articles to be exhibited to the Senate within 25 calendar days from the date of adoption of such articles, as recorded in the Journal of the House of Representatives, such articles shall be deemed exhibited before the Senate and it shall be in order for any Senator to offer a motion to dismiss such articles with prejudice for failure by the House of Representatives to prosecute such articles.
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January 8, 2020 10:52am
Minsk400

Yesterday was the 5th anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo massacre. No acknowledgement anywhere except http://www.spiked.com. MEanwhile freedom of speech is under attack everywhere.
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January 8, 2020 11:02am
- Ed Snack
  
  Yep, the Hebdo attack was one of the more successful Islamic moves of recent times. Very few are now prepared to publicly criticize any facet of Islam for fear of being targeted similarly.
  
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  January 8, 2020 2:57pm
Michael Rodent

Read an interesting article in a UK magazine last week about the move to EVs being forced onto car manufacturers.
It appears that the infrastructure to “fill” EVs isn’t in place and the imposition on generation capacity is significant.
The example related to the EV equivalent of a 20 pump petrol station. To service that same number of vehicle throughput an EV station would require 120 120kw supercharges which would need the generation capacity equivalent to that needed to service 32,000 homes – and that is just for one “filling” station.
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January 8, 2020 11:34am
- cmm
  
  EV filling stations will never take off because it costs too much time to fill up. Now a day people filling with petrol use their card at the pump and get agitated that the petrol is flowing in at approx 1 litre (15km or range) a second. That is effectively an energy transfer rate of 30MW per petrol pump. A 1 minute operation sets you up for hundreds of km of travel.
  
  To fill an EV, even at 120kW, is approximately 250 times as slow.
  
  If people think they can make an EV servo model work, I’d like to see how. People don’t want to hang around servos for hours on end. Even 1 minute is a hassle when people want to get home from work etc.
  
  Apart from being inconvenient, there is also the cost of infrastructure. 1 petrol pump can serve 30 people an hour (2 minutes each). At EV charging speeds you can only service a handful of customers an hour. That means more equipment is needed, more area taken up by filling stations, higher rents, more cost etc etc.
  
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  January 8, 2020 12:20pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    cmm, let the markets and rapidly developing technology decide.
    
    But one obvious answer is to fill up your EV at home which most do!.
    
    Something impractical and impossible for a petrol or diesel car!
    
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    January 8, 2020 12:42pm
    - cmm
      
      “let the markets … decide.”
      
      Yup, I agree. No need for more EV subsidies. Let them compete on a level playing field. That’s what the market is about isn’t it?
      
      C’mon EVs pay your RUC!
      
      “rapidly developing technology decide.” Unfortunately technology cannot outpace the laws of physics. Them little buggers will get you in the end.
      
      If more than a small % of people use EVs then we need a massive grid upgrade to get all that power to houses to charge cars. We also need to build some more hydro lakes and a few nukes maybe to charge them.
      
      Fill up at home?
      
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      January 8, 2020 1:55pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        The technical solution I always thought would arise is to have replaceable battery packs. So the batteries become standardized items that can be automatically removed and replaced with a charged one at a specialized station. You wouldn’t own a battery but effectively rent one. This would also solve the problem of deteriorating batteries that are very expensive to replace in existing vehicles – sub-standard batteries could be removed and either recycled or refurbished.
        
        There would be substantial challenges in this approach – finding a safe and secure way to locate the batteries so they could be quickly removed and swapped and in a standard way for a wide range of vehicles. Plus getting different manufacturers to agree on a standard. There would be an issue with sub-standard batteries being issued that would need controlling, but potentially solvable.
        
        Haven’t seen any proposals for same, so maybe the collaboration and engineering challenges are just too great. Might be easiest to do in a limited market like for Trucks first though.
        
        Wouldn’t solve the problem of providing enough electricity, and the infrastructure investment would be huge. But a way around the physical challenge of recharging in a reasonable time.
        
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        January 8, 2020 3:05pm
      - alloytoo
        
        @Ed snack, RE: replacement Batteries
        
        According to my sources in the motor industry it’s easier to import an entire Electric car and a replacement battery.
        
        Weight considerations aside the damn things are considered a significant fire hazard when transporting.
        
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        January 8, 2020 6:13pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Do you want to pay for the higher current carrying power lines? A complete re-wiring of the grid is indicated.
      
      7 1
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      January 8, 2020 5:03pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      How ironic. To save land and cram more people into our cities we’re all meant to be moving into apartments.
      
      To end AGW, we’re meant to be driving electric cars.
      
      Unless new, expensive apartment blocks include car parks with the right power points, ‘filling up at home’ will remain unrealistic as more people live in apartments.
      
      On top of that, of course, actually driving somewhere beyond the battery’s range is currently totally unfeasible.
      
      And will remain so, unless some really amazing invention makes refilling quick and easy.
      
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      January 8, 2020 6:02pm
  - nasska
    
    …..”1 petrol pump can serve 30 people an hour (2 minutes each)”……
    
    True. But then they have to pay for the fuel & they leave the car parked in front of the pump while they’re doing it.
    
    So far so good yet if one miscalculates & fills up at a service station with a Lotto outlet then add ten minutes while the attendant & some mad woman customer discuss last Saturday night’s draw.
    
    You could push the bloody car home & still save time!
    
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    January 8, 2020 3:59pm
    - Hollyfield
      
      Or you could choose a service station that has pay at the pump and no store.
      
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      January 8, 2020 4:33pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Triggered!
      It’s okay nasska, try to forget about the petrol station…
      
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      January 8, 2020 6:17pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  If people were filling their petrol tanks at home then filling stations wouldn’t need 20 pumps.
  
  If refining petrol didn’t use so much electricity then there would be plenty of electricity to charge EVs, especially at night when little electricity is normally used.
  
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  January 8, 2020 1:08pm
  - Michael Rodent
    
    Refineries don’t use much power to refine crude (about 1kBtu per litre of crude).
    Charging EVs at home is not that simple – just plugging them into a normal wall socket won’t give any decent overnight range charge. You need an expensive 3 phase system and most urban areas don’t have the transformer capacity to even do a fraction of houses. Additionally, most urban cars are not garaged and many park on the street – running charging cables from the house across the footpath to charge an EV at roadside is not feasible.
    The whole thing about EVs just hasn’t been thought out properly.
    
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    January 8, 2020 5:18pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      You obviously don’t own an EV!
      
      To fully charge our Nisan LEAF from empty to full would require only 5 hours on a single phase 230 VAC charger built into the LEAF. But normal driving around town means we don’t actually have to plug in but once every three days or so into a normal house socket. No expensive 3 phase socket required.
      
      Also, you have to consider the cost/energy required to move petrol around the country! Moving electricity is much more efficient and cheaper than driving thousands of petrol trucks around.
      An EV can travel further on a KW of electricity than a petrol car can travel on the same KW of electricity used to refine petrol. And since 80% of electricity in New Zealand is generated from renewal power, almost NO pollution.
      
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      January 8, 2020 6:57pm
      - nasska
        
        …..”An EV can travel further on a KW of electricity than a petrol car can travel on the same KW of electricity used to refine petrol”…..
        
        This seemed more than a trifle on the high side & suggested a little research could be needed.
        
        …..”The Department of Energy estimates that refiners used 47 TWh of electricity in 2001 to produce refined products from 5.3 billion barrels of oil. Assuming that you get 42 gallons of refined products from each barrel of oil, this works out to about 0.2 kilowatt hours of electricity used for each gallon of gasoline produced.”……
        
        https://www.cfr.org/blog/do-gasoline-based-cars-really-use-more-electricity-electric-vehicles-do
        
        Do you still stand by your claim? If so please expand on your proposition.
        
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        January 8, 2020 8:03pm
secondcumming

*AUSTRALIA*
Muslim teens laugh after appearing in court after being arrested for setting fires……

https://wp.me/p4hgqZ-Mg2

Yet hopelessly inept politicians and those from the looney-left still continue to welcome them into the country. WHY?
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January 8, 2020 12:45pm
- chaos
  
  So one Muslim so far out of how many aussies so far warned and charged?
  
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  January 8, 2020 1:27pm
  - secondcumming
    
    One two [mod] many if you ask me.
    
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    January 8, 2020 1:54pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    24 people had been charged up until last night.
    
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    January 8, 2020 3:15pm
- kevn
  
  @sc… Put them out there at the front with the firefighters but forget the protective gear. Watch them cry like babies.
  
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  January 8, 2020 2:45pm
  - chaos
    
    At least one of them has been out fighting the fires after starting them
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/01/australia-bushfires-teen-volunteer-firefighter-among-those-charged-with-deliberately-lighting-fires.html
    
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    January 8, 2020 3:15pm
  - secondcumming
    
    Maaaaate 😎
    
    2 1
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    January 8, 2020 3:53pm
barnacle bill

Doctors.
How often does this happen in NZ ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/how-one-medical-checkup-can-snowball-into-a-cascade-of-tests-causing-more-harm-than-good/2020/01/03/0c8024fc-20eb-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html
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January 8, 2020 1:00pm
- chaos
  
  Just don’t get a sword throat
  
  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cost-of-health-care-routine-doctor-visit-for-a-sore-throat-results-in-a-28000-medical-bill/
  
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  January 8, 2020 1:38pm
  - chaos
    
    Swore
    
    2 1
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    January 8, 2020 2:15pm
    - chaos
      
      Argh, damn tablet, SORE
      
      3 1
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      January 8, 2020 3:16pm
Bell-47

So Iran fires back.. Time for POTUS to light them up. Iran has been trying to intimidate the US for decades. It’s about time the people of Iran were freed of the violent aggressors that inhabit their army and government.
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January 8, 2020 1:01pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  you can’t depose a tyrannical regime without troops on the ground. US can strike obvious military targets but can’t do anything to remove the Mullahs from power.
  
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  January 8, 2020 1:30pm
  - Bell-47
    
    Perhaps the “troops on the ground” are the Iranian people, the only issue with this, as demonstrated in the recent past, is the power vacuum left behind.
    
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    January 8, 2020 2:02pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yeah, how’s that regime change worked out in Iraq, Syria and Libya? what should we call this one – the ‘Persian Spring’?
      
      3 10
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      January 8, 2020 2:22pm
      - MCos
        
        What happened to regime change in Venezuela?
        Sort of fizzled out.
        Not that a fan of the current administration, but who’s to say the alternative bloke would be any better?
        
        1 1
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        January 8, 2020 5:10pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Milky has a point. Power vacuums aren’t filled by naïve young people who want human rights and peace. Power vacuums are filled by the nastiest arseholes with the biggest weapons.
        
        3 0
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        January 8, 2020 6:09pm
- The King
  
  There are 40 US military bases surrounding Iran, yet some how in your deluded mind Iran is intimidating America.
  
  This is brainwashing propaganda at work folks. A prime example right here.
  
  2 6
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  January 8, 2020 5:05pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Guerilla warfare and terrorism work that way: hit the bigger guy where it hurts and then disappear before he can strike back.
    
    4 0
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    January 8, 2020 6:11pm
Hugh Pavletich

AUSTRALIAN BUSHFIRES …

Australia Bushfires Cause Cruise Port Cancellations and Altered Itineraries …. Anne Majumdar … Cruise Critic

https://www.cruisecritic.com.au/news/4937/?source=123655&utm_source=browser&utm_medium=push_notification&utm_campaign=vwo_notification_1578427251&_p_c=1

Heartbreaking images of the catastrophic bushfires that are devastating vast swathes of Australia have shocked the world, prompting many travellers to ask if it remains safe as a cruising destination.

More than 130 fires are still burning across NSW, while uncontrolled blazes continue to ravage large areas of Victoria and South Australia — three states where cruise ships make regular calls in summer. Since the fires started in November, at least 21 people have died along with half a billion animals, and thousands of homes have been destroyed. Other areas of the country, and even New Zealand, are also suffering from very poor air quality as a result of the smoke.

Cruise lines have confirmed to Cruise Critic today that they are closely monitoring the situation and adjusting itineraries to avoid affected areas. According to Cruise Lines International Australasia (CLIA), only minor changes have been considered necessary to a small number of cruises visiting specific parts of south-eastern Australia. … read more via hyperlink above ….
.
.
‘A massive blow’: Dark side to celebrity bushfire donations … OPINION James Murphy, economist … News com au

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/a-massive-blow-dark-side-to-celebrity-bushfire-donations/news-story/8748dc87e0ca331e2f9476d795d478ea

Poor air quality caused by bushfire smoke posing serious risk for healthy people too, health experts warn … ABCNews

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-01-07/prolonged-bushfire-smoke-creates-new-health-risks/11844934
2 15
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January 8, 2020 1:10pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  OPINION … Australian wildfires were caused by humans, not climate change … Patrick Michaels & Myron Ebell … The Washington Examiner
  
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/australian-wildfires-were-caused-by-humans-not-climate-change
  
  1 3
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  January 8, 2020 8:21pm
mikenmildagain

The US ~~Iran~~ has been trying to intimidate Iran ~~the US~~ for decades.
FIFY
As for your fantasy that the US could liberate Iran…
3 23
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January 8, 2020 1:25pm
- Bell-47
  
  Hugging terrorists and human rights abusers is very popular with the left..look how far it’s got Sanders and Corbyn.
  
  15 2
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  January 8, 2020 2:13pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Mikey, are you now play history revisionist? Please enlighten us, which country was attempting to intimidate which country during the period 1979 – 1981 with the capture of an embassy and the imprisonment of diplomatic representatives and staff?
  
  12 2
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  January 8, 2020 3:35pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    All I am saying is that Iranians have a long memory of the WWI and WWII invasions, the overthrow of the government in the 1950s and western support for the Shah’s regime. The 1979 revolution was widely popular. The hostage affair is probably mainly remembered in Iran for the failed attack to attempt a resuce of those hostages. Since then, most Iranians will be happy to tell you about US support for Iraq in the bloody war, and the shootdown of the civilian airliner.
    The US poses much more of a security threat to Iran than vice versa. Iranians are patriotic and generally well educated. They pose much less risk to US interests than the Sunni regime in Saudi Arabia, for example.
    That’s not to paint Iran as the good guys – their Islamic republic is fairly repressive, but still more of a democracy than almost any other middle east state.
    Ironically, US politicians like Reagan were only too prepared to cooperate with the iranians when it was for domestic political advantage (freeing the hostage, funding the Contras).
    
    4 13
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    January 8, 2020 4:36pm
    - Bell-47
      
      Other than the regime openly and with frightening regularity chanting death to America and death to Israel..Yeah, they sound like a fine upstanding bastion of peace and tranquility..
      
      10 2
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      January 8, 2020 5:13pm
      - sooty
        
        Hugging terrorists, didn’t Phool Goof do that?
        
        7 1
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        January 8, 2020 5:21pm
      - The King
        
        So lets do war over “Chanting”
        
        Sounds legit, better than WMD’s i guess.
        
        1 11
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        January 8, 2020 6:06pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      “Fairly repressive?”
      
      Ya think?
      
      Like, hanging gay teenagers from cranes in public?
      
      Sheesh.
      
      10 1
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      January 8, 2020 6:06pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Milky defends the indefensible: gay youths murdered, helpless child brides raped, no help against domestic violence, FGM practiced.
        
        https://time.com/5415628/zeinab-sekaanvand-iran-execution-violence/
        
        To Milky that’s just ‘fairly repressive’.
        
        6 2
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        January 8, 2020 6:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The Freedom House index rates Iran as ‘not free’. Some neighbours, like Pakistan, Kuwait, Turkey and Georgia are rated as ‘partly free’. Most, like Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Syria and the UAE, are also ‘not free’.
        The Democracy Index rates Iran as ‘authoritarian’, 150th on the index. So not as badly rated as Saudi Arabia or North Korea, but still in the same category along with states like Russia, Cuba and Myanmar.
        Iran also executes large numbers of people, probably around 250 per year, less than China but more than the US.
        But no one, surely, is going to pretend that the conflict between Iran and the US are based on differences over human rights or democracy.
        
        2 3
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        January 8, 2020 6:36pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      ” The 1979 revolution was widely popular”, as I remember from that time in Europe: it looked hopeful and youth-driven.
      
      People did not foresee the oppressive theocratic regime.
      
      I met many Persian refugees in Europe (they don’t call themselves ‘Iranian’: many were intellectuals who had to flee because freedom of speech was now endangering their lives.
      
      And they had *not* seen it coming.
      
      10 0
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      January 8, 2020 6:18pm
secondcumming

Time to launch some of that “…….big beautiful equipment”

Let’s hope our own ‘Commander in Chief’ is urgently winging her way home from holiday in order to direct operations here 😎
12 3
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January 8, 2020 1:52pm
chaos

Here’s hoping we don’t have another outbreak

* More than 2400 people travelling on the Interislander over the holidays may have been exposed to measles.

An unvaccinated child travelling with their family crossed the Cook Strait on the Kaitaki ferry twice over the holiday period.

The Canterbury District Health Board (CDHB) publicly notified the case on Tuesday, urging people who have not been vaccinated and may have come into contact with the child to isolate themselves.*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118661524/more-than-2400-people-on-interislander-sailings-potentially-exposed-to-measles
10 0
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January 8, 2020 4:12pm
chaos

* Missile strikes against US bases in Iraq were legitimate self-defense measures and are now over, as Iran does not intend to wage war or escalate the situation further, Foreign Minister Javad Zarif has said.

Two volleys of missiles aimed at the Al-Asad base in Iraq’s Anbar province and another facility near Erbil were “proportionate measures in self-defense” under 51 of the UN Charter, Zarif tweeted from Tehran in the early hours of Wednesday, describing the action as “completed.”*

https://www.rt.com/news/477685-iran-proportionate-self-defense-zarif/
6 0
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January 8, 2020 4:23pm
lifesgood

Radio NZ trumpeting rubbish about how the Australian fires have started. They loudly proclaimed (12pm news) that the stories about arsonists are false, they are appalled that those stories being spread via social media are fake and that the truth is that the fires are the result of climate change. Oh, dear, there is no hope for us with our MSM, is there? Question: What heat would the world need to be for fires to spontaneously erupt?
14 3
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January 8, 2020 4:45pm
- Monique Watson
  
  In the immortal words of myself: “Mo[mod]er!”
  Golriz, the propaganda mouthpiece of the Greens on the Middle East is making an arsehole of herself as well:
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118647877/new-zealand-should-be-a-principled-voice-as-usiran-tensions-rise-golriz-ghahraman-says
  
  [Mod: Why is this in reply to lifesgood’s comment? – and no point in gratuitous obscenities.]
  
  9 2
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  January 8, 2020 5:04pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    I personally think gratuitous obscenities add greatly to the richness of language and discourse. Mods please try to resist the urge to launch yourselves down the tedious self-censoring hurty words rabbit-hole. Stephen Fry:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM
    
    4 0
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    January 8, 2020 8:30pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Just listened to that bulletin, as your summary sounded dodgy. The only mention of the bushfires on the 12pm news was an item on dispatching more NZ help. There is no current item on the RNZ website making that claim.
  
  2 11
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  January 8, 2020 5:06pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Rubbish, milkey. I heard it and was shocked. I DID NOT make it up. My car radio is tuned to Nat radio. Are you calling me a liar?
    
    8 4
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    January 8, 2020 6:20pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, here is the link to the RNZ 12 pm bulletin:
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/news-bulletin/story/2018729308/radio-new-zealand-news
      
      1 6
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      January 8, 2020 6:45pm
      - lifesgood
        
        All I can say is I heard it. Maybe it wasn’t on the news. Perhaps I was mistaken about the time. It was a reasonably lengthy piece and I couldn’t believe it.
        
        2 0
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        January 8, 2020 8:49pm
    - chaos
      
      Yes life is good there are some news sources that have reported that as well, claiming the stories of arson are from bots and trolls, trying to discredit what the Aussie news have reported
      
      2 0
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      January 8, 2020 8:59pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Spontaneously combustion of bush scrub would require a minimum of 400 degC, probably closer to 600 degC.
  
  Despite the alarmist hoping that CO2 (a fire retardant) caused these fires there are only three ways they can start:
  1. Natural via lightening
  2. Accidental – human via faulty wires, broken glass, bbq’s etc
  3. Deliberate – human via arson
  
  Of course an honourable mention must go to the Greens for their we-know-best attitude which forced landowners to leave ground fuel to accumulate without management.
  
  11 2
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  January 8, 2020 5:32pm
  - Batman
    
    Of course CO2 isn’t directly starting fires.
    
    But CO2 sitting in the atmosphere and trapping heat, thus causing warmer and drier periods, would have a good chance of creating ideal bushfire conditions like we’re seeing now in Australia.
    
    Of course, it’s all a UN plot.
    
    3 13
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    January 8, 2020 5:35pm
    - The King
      
      200 people have been arrested since September for starting bush fires, but you know who’s to blame right?
      
      Cow farts.
      
      6 2
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      January 8, 2020 6:39pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      It’s not been warmer, nor drier. Actual data here: https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/12/24/are-australian-wildfires-due-to-climate-change/
      
      0 2
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      January 9, 2020 7:28am
  - lifesgood
    
    Thanks, KK. Good to know.
    
    6 1
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    January 8, 2020 6:22pm
  - sam green
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12298981
    
    Stop spreading fake news.
    
    1 3
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    January 8, 2020 10:19pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Claims fake news, then posts MSM opinion piece from one of 1000s of fire fighters. Desperate much?
      
      0 1
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      January 9, 2020 7:21am
KevO'Brien

@Bobba Fret
Bit late mate. It’s already been flogged off to the Aussies.
It once was NZ Govt owned but it and even offered part of the NZ Govt owned power grid as security for some USD loans and speculative currency deals.
Who wants a bank like that?
3 1
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January 8, 2020 4:56pm
KH

The US needs to learn this.
“When a mosquito bites you on the testicle, it’s best not to respond with extreme violence.”
4 9
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January 8, 2020 5:01pm
chaos

Sad, I hope it is simply an accident

* A plane carrying 180 passengers and crew has crashed near the airport in Tehran, Iranian state TV reports.

The plane was a Boeing 737 from the Ukraine, on its way to Boryspil airport in Kiev.

Flight 752 reportedly suffered technical problems and went down minutes after take-off from Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airport.

There is no immediate word on injures.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12298963
6 0
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January 8, 2020 5:04pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  More likely trigger happy Iranian military imagining everything in the air is USAin military.
  
  10 2
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  January 8, 2020 5:28pm
- chaos
  
  Footage of it. Hmm technical problems….. on fire as it goes down
  
  https://twitter.com/BahmanKalbasi/status/1214759246795100161
  
  7 1
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  January 8, 2020 5:43pm
  - Inandout
    
    The CTs are going ballistic on Twotter.
    
    2 1
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    January 8, 2020 7:26pm
- The King
  
  Not the first time America has shot down a civilian plane over Iran.
  
  2 17
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  January 8, 2020 6:03pm
- rockape
  
  In air defense you have two safeguards generally. Fire control orders and IFF. Iff first of all is a signal sent to identify an aircraft as friendly to a missile system. In Nato it was a code transmitted to the missile system and that code was changed every 20 minutes Fire control orders were Hold fire, No engagement, Weapons tight , identify as hostile before shooting down and Weapons free. take any target unless positively identified as freindly.
  There could easily have been an escalation to weapons free as the Iranians were expecting retaliation.
  Seen the odd close call in the Falklands!
  
  6 0
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  January 8, 2020 7:41pm
  - curry4me
    
    Plus the cruiser was being attacked by multiple “bog hammers” These are speedboats with RPGs and the like. Sometimes in a war, “defecation occurs”.
    
    1 0
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    January 8, 2020 9:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I have heard somewhere that Americans shot missiles at themselves to start a war.
Dunno where it was, but not CNN, or playschool TV1 network news
1 5
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January 8, 2020 6:37pm
- The King
  
  Soleimani once funneled weapons to Egypt to attack Israel.
  
  Google the “Lavon Affair”
  
  3 3
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  January 8, 2020 6:41pm
- DigNap15
  
  It was probably the King or Kea that told you
  
  1 1
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  January 8, 2020 11:25pm
krazykiwi

Are you a Queensland land owner who has engaged in illegal land management practices designed to limit first risk?

Be warned: We use satellites, and we’ll get you.
8 0
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January 8, 2020 8:28pm
- Rich Prick
  
  That’s a fucking worry isn’t it? Big Brother will get you for defying the Greens and protecting your property. I’d tell ‘em to jam their fines right up their arses. And set fire to paper they’re printed on for good measure. Just to see what they might do to mitigate fire risk. Would they let it burn?
  
  2 0
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  January 8, 2020 9:23pm
  - sam green
    
    Again – https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12298981
    
    0 2
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    January 8, 2020 10:24pm
DigNap15

I hope the Greens get arseholes over all the Koala bears that are dying a horrible death due to their polices.
2 3
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January 8, 2020 11:26pm
Rodney Randall

Hassan Razaeifar, the head of air crash investigation committee, said it appeared the pilot couldn’t communicate with air-traffic controllers in Tehran in the last moments of the flight. He did not elaborate.

The pilot of the aircraft then lost control of the plane, sending it crashing into the ground, Biniaz said, according to the state-run IRNA news agency.

Sounds like a load of shit to me.
Can anyone confirm if the crew squawked 7700?

I had my flight radar alerts muted.
1 0
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January 8, 2020 11:37pm

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