General Debate 4 December 2019

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mikenmildagain

Well, it’s a special time for Catholics today. It’s Saint Barbara’s Day. She is one of the Fourteen Holy Helpers, and he speciality is being invoked against fever and sudden death, against lightning and fire, and against sudden and violent death at work. She is also the patron of builders, artillerymen, and miners.
So, if you are in fear of sudden and violent death at work, you might want to consider worshipping St Barbara.
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December 4, 2019 8:00am
- Prince
  
  Thanks Mike, I’m not too keen on the violent death in particular, so thanks for the tip.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:16am
- Fletch
  
  Note: Catholics don’t worship saints. They may ask saints to intercede on their behalf – eg, asking a saint to pray for you, as you would ask someone you know (a friend or church member) to pray for you. Only we believe that asking a saint to pray for you has more efficacy than someone here on earth, as saints are already close to God and holiness.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sure. Is that because God doesn’t listen to prayers sent direct, and requires them to be routed through a saint? Can a saint decline to pass the request on? Would it be efficient for God to delegate answering of simple requests to the saints?
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:11am
    - pb
      
      Gnostic Masonic heresy. The go betweens are called demons.
      
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      December 4, 2019 2:10pm
  - mandk
    
    You don’t need to pray through saints.
    You can go straight to the top
    You know: Our Father etc.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:26am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    So it’s not a matter of how worthy you are, but a matter of who you know. Thanks for the explanation.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:44am
  - Debbie
    
    More importantly, the saints actually REMEMBER to pray.
    
    All well and good that our prayers are of equal importance, but the Saints have track record of actually praying whereas those of us still on earth are often a bit forgetful.
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:55am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    But why? We have all been given the right to approach God directly through Jesus Christ no matter how lowly we are or how bad we have been.
    The Saints have done their work in their time and place.
    Jesus is sufficient.
    
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    December 4, 2019 2:14pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  MMA, much as I enjoy learning about some of these special days and your occasional witty snark, I think you’ve slipped up here.
  
  Artillerymen? Your licence to woke might be revoked. Shouldn’t that be ‘artillerypeople’ or ‘gunners’?
  
  Incidentally, why is the expression ‘slipped up’ instead of ‘slipped down’? My wife, not a mother tongue English speaker, was most insistent and persuasive that the expression was illogical and wrong.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:01am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The army calls them ‘gunners’, which is satisfactorily gender-neutral.
    I don’t have a good reason for the idiom of slip up. Perhaps another pedant could help.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:17am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Yeah, but notice how he referred to Saint Barbara as being the patron, rather than the Patroness.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:29am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      ‘Matron saint’?
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The word Slip has many meanings and it can be a verb or a noun
    
    A slip is a small mistake, or it can be a slide (loss of footing).
    
    The various idioms related to slip illustrate some of its meanings:
    
    You can:
    slip away, slip down, slip in, slip into, slip off, slip on, slip out, slip out of, slip over, slip past, slip through, and slip up.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:59am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      And, slip slop slap now summer is peeking over the horizon . . .
      
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      December 4, 2019 12:53pm
Greg Ettridge

Is this NZ 2020? Back to the future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuYeQi4wB_k

Same year 1978, I was in Kathmandu on an overland, a punter made some hash cookies and over hashed the hash, another punter ate the cookies and walked into a fire ?
What could possibly go wrong!
Andrew Little
“We will stop under 20’s getting this drug”
Yes I am sure you will, you can’t stop 15 year olds getting plastered at a Labor organised event, how the hell can you stop them getting dope, dope.
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December 4, 2019 8:01am
- cmm
  
  When I was 16 I got pissed and fell in a fire.
  
  Perhaps that is why I am failing to understand the point you are making.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:09am
  - SGA
    
    lol – actually we could make a generic version – fill in your own at your leisure 🙂
    
    When I was (insert age here) I got pissed and (insert dangerous/reckless/stupid/violent act here).
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:17am
  - MrLovebucket
    
    You are only making a good point about yourself.
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:31am
  - Nookin
    
    I think the point that he is making is that if the law passes as proposed, you, a pissed 16 year old in the throes of being barbecued will be joined on the hot coals by a 16 year old stoner.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:15am
  - andrew davies
    
    Maybe it should be fire we are banning.
    
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    December 4, 2019 10:23am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I’m sure it was a life lesson well learned. You probably no longer fall in to fires if you can help it.
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:50am
- Raphael
  
  Never mind they say that this will keep people under 20 from getting access to marijuana….. but will also be allowing people to grow 4 plants at home.
  
  Does our moronic Justice Minister really thing that under 20’s will not be getting access to the plants at home?
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:42am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Meh
    People under 20 can get it now and will continue to do so
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:48am
    - alloytoo
      
      Indeed, but this legistation will make things so much safer by stopping all that underage doping in it’s tracks.
      
      /sarcasm
      
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      December 4, 2019 10:55am
  - freethinker
    
    Raphael – Probably as Angry R Sole thinks the Pope isn’t a Catholic.
    
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    December 4, 2019 10:26am
srylands

A perfect world? I think it is excellent that parties need to fundraise. I can’t help but think that people are being softened up for this.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117888826/jacinda-ardern-says-in-perfect-world-political-parties-wouldnt-have-to-fundraise-at-all
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December 4, 2019 8:02am
- JackRabbit
  
  Jacinda is right on the mark, not. “Progressive” countries such as Nazi Germany, Russia under Stalin, Cuba etc,… did not have to fund raise, because there was only one party!!!
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:32am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Parties that promise to raise taxes and trash the economy generally find it hard to fund raise for good reason.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:32am
- Ruahine
  
  Labour at its best. They certainly know how to make a grab for your wallet. They are basically just lazy and want to bludge. They are the party for bludgers and criminals so we should not be surprised.
  Let’s do it.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:42am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What else have actually done of value?
    
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    December 4, 2019 2:17pm
- rouppe
  
  She simply doesn’t want the pesky need to convince the citizens of new zealand that she and her ideas are worth supporting.
  
  A politically engaged citizenry is one that challenges authoritarianism
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:49am
- Chris2
  
  Strange how there is never any discussion about Union leaders choosing to donate thousands of dollars of its members subscriptions to the Labour Party in knowledge that only some members vote Labour and many do not.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:30am
Vallager

In today’s Herald, that bastion of accuracy and insight, I read with mounting excitement that there was now “proof” that the infamous pic of Prince Andrew and Virginia Roberts was not a fake. “Got the swine”, I thought.
Then I read the actual article.
Turns out the only proof offered is that she says it is not a fake. So not exactly proof.
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, after all, it is the Herald.
Then I wondered….is Jacinda moonlighting as a journo?
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December 4, 2019 8:03am
- srylands
  
  I agree. No proof at all. However I think it is more likely than not to be genuine.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:16am
  - rouppe
    
    I also think it is genuine. I also think the smiles of all three people in the photo are genuine
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:50am
    - Jules99
      
      People smile at odd times – if you weren’t there, you don’t know the story behind the smiles.
      
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      December 4, 2019 10:39am
      - Debbie
        
        Yes, people often smile for a pic taken with a celebrity and/or royalty.
        
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        December 4, 2019 11:58am
    - lifesgood
      
      The accuser looks really happy, not like someone who is being held as a sex slave, that’s for sure. Nevertheless I still think the prince is a slime ball.
      
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      December 4, 2019 12:04pm
      - Kevin Herlihy
        
        The young lady was a prostitute, she willingly engaged in sexual acts for reward. The accusation that she was trafficked is a complete fiction.
        
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        December 4, 2019 1:21pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Every article I read in the Herald, on line or on paper seems to have an overstatement or an exaggeration. and then there are the inaccuracies.
  They, at the herald, wonder why they are held in such low regard.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:30am
  - fernglas
    
    I’ve written to them a million times telling them not to exaggerate
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:24am
- Gravelroad
  
  The trouble with the photo is that the young woman looks really happy for someone who has been trafficked and forcibly pimped out as a high class prostitute.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:33am
  - JackRabbit
    
    The photo could have been taken pre-activity. Who wouldn’t be happy to meet with a royal?
    
    I’m sure you would be smiling if you had met Prince Andrew or been out to a meal with him. But your expression would change once you were intimidated to sleep with him.
    
    On the other hand, the story could be false. In any case we have much bigger problems here in NZ. Leave the UK to sort out their problems.
    
    What is happening with the Groper that was in the Fish and Chip shop PM’s office?
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:21am
  - andrew davies
    
    And been drenched in sweat by a lousy dancer who under performed in a “gross” sexual act.
    
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    December 4, 2019 10:26am
  - GoVege
    
    The young lady’s dad is apparently being interviewed now.
    Why did she never call on dad for help when she was being “trafficked”?
    
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    December 4, 2019 2:52pm
- Paulus
  
  My wife has asked – how long had she been a hooker and at what age did she start ?
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:18am
- Stephen Russell
  
  These days, the children who are employed as journalists simply don’t know that there is a difference between allegation and proof, between deny and refute, etc.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:48am
Maggie Pie

“You can’t overdose on weed. But hey, feel free to give it a go”
– Andrew Little (probably)

https://i.imgflip.com/3iappm.jpg
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December 4, 2019 8:03am
- cmm
  
  It’s a bit like booze.
  
  You will struggle to get alcohol poisoning drinking beer. You will spew long before you can get enough into your system. However if you distill the alcohol – easy as.
  
  Same with dope. If you concentrate it by making hash you can OD.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:22am
  - Tall Man
    
    Met a chap once who had consumed 25 flagons over the course of a weekend.
    
    He definitely had overloaded his system to the extent that his kidneys had basically shut down and he was consigned to walking around the hospital trailing another flagon on a small trolley connected to a catheter. He was basically off alcohol for the rest of his life.
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:39am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      How long was the rest of his life?
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:40am
      - Tall Man
        
        I never knew but I would doubt it was extensive.
        
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        December 4, 2019 9:22pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  According to US research, the average cannabis user gets three joints to the gram of loose-leaf cannabis. So your 14-grams-a-day limit equates to 42 joints per day.
  
  So much for a Smokefree New Zealand!
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:30am
  - Than
    
    That limit also strikes me as very hard to enforce. If I buy 10 grams at one shop, then 10 more at the next one down the road (or come back to the same shop an hour later when a different cashier is on) how will they keep track.
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:41am
    - artemisia
      
      There will be a national register run by the police and SAP. EZ.
      
      Actually pharmacies already run a scheme for pharmacy only stuff, not sure if it is national but probably is. Not hard to extend it to weed, for a (high) price.
      
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      December 4, 2019 8:57am
      - Inandout
        
        art, and that register will be ‘leaked’ so the gangs will know who is using the legal stuff, and will be able to be offered cheaper and stronger weed.
        
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        December 4, 2019 9:26am
      - freethinker
        
        Yes and get SAP to design the software – worked for Firearms OK – not!
        
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        December 4, 2019 10:31am
    - John Warren
      
      It’s a little like the stupid dopehead woman on the news last night who thought the limit of two plants cultivated for personal use wasn’t fair on those people without green thumbs who’d only grow sickly little plants, whereas competent gardeners could grow great big bushy things. It should be based on the size of the plant, she said, with glazed eyes.
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:47am
  - MCos
    
    Noone goes to the supermarket to buy two rashers of bacon every day plus a solitary egg for their breakfast.
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:46am
    - Ed Snack
      
      But people most definitely go to a liquor store (or supermarket) to buy all that they intend to drink in one session.
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:18am
      - SGA
        
        Do you really? If I go to a liquor store to buy a bottle of scotch and/or gin then I have no intention of drinking either or both in one sitting. You’re a hard man, Ed 🙂
        
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        December 4, 2019 11:32am
  - SGA
    
    According to US research, the average cannabis user gets three joints to the gram of loose-leaf cannabis. So your 14-grams-a-day limit equates to 42 joints per day.
    
    Most people who buy a case of beer at the supermarket aren’t planning on drinking it all that night.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:41am
- JackRabbit
  
  So some stoner, having smoked 10 joints goes on the road with impaired judgement and kills a family.
  
  “But your honour, Andrew Little said it was all good.”
  
  Overdoes is not the issue. Being out of control is.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What have you been smoking?
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Not weed!
      
      I have worked with stoners in my early working days. More workplace accidents and workplace scuffles in one year than in all the other years put together.
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:13am
    - Inandout
      
      m&m, maybe he is on Pindone.
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:28am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Legalized marijuana has been linked to a sharp increase in motor vehicle accidents, in those states of the US that legalised it.
      
      Marijuana slows your reaction time and ability to make quick decisions, however you are not visibly “intoxicated”. It is more subtle. But there is nothing new about this, studies were carried out in the US decades ago, that show the effects of Marijuana. And the effects don’t go away immediately.
      
      So much for Labour stating they want to reduce the road toll. Mind you everything Labour does is contrary to their stated goals and promises.
      
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      December 4, 2019 2:17pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    We were discussing this last night. Consensus is they will need to build a new Ward to handle eScooter injuries – both for stoned riders and innocent pedestrians. Imagine it!!
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:07am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    And the real issue is that he can’t be tested and held accountable.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:20am
  - oldgolfer
    
    Just be youthful hijinks, as in some other case that springs to mind.
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:08am
- Pharmachick
  
  Yes you can.
  
  Its difficult, nigh on impossible with smoking it, even with todays potent strains, so that’s what is usually quoted… but with rendered oil and edibles its very, very possible.
  
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  December 4, 2019 3:34pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Fraction of all US wealth owned by Boomers & Gen-Xers when the average member of each was age 35:
Boomers, 1989 21%
GenX, 2008 8%
The average Millennial turns 35 in 2023. Right now they own 3%.
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December 4, 2019 8:06am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Massive hollowing out of young working families there.
  
  Congratulations Capitalism!
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:17am
  - mark15
    
    You sound like you are saying capitalism has failed,Martin.
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:50am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Remind me which member of the comrade comrade comrade accidental gubbermint said that . . .
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:41am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Socialism is not about love for the poor. Socialism is all about hatred of the rich.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:43am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Socialism requires slaves.
      
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      December 4, 2019 10:51am
      - Martin Williams
        
        Whereas Capitalism requires “low wages”.
        
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        December 4, 2019 11:19am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Better to hate the rich rather than young families.
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:18am
      - Rich Prick
        
        I’m feeling the hate, it’s what the left does best.
        
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        December 4, 2019 12:10pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Socialists hate the rich AND young families.
        
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        December 4, 2019 2:43pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Millennials spend so much time being outraged at this and offended by that, that they haven’t got round to building wealth. It’s their problem, not ours.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:58am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Boomer buys house in 1978 for 3x salary on 10 year mortgage during 1975-1988 period with 13% inflation and 20% interest rates. Starting at mortgage repayments of 75% of salary it drops to 25% of salary by end, with average of 46%. They have paid 4.6x their salary during that period to get a freehold house. Within 2-3 years they could pay mortgage on one income and afford families. Over that 10 year period they have been able to afford fun and investment and it only gets better as their house increased 5x in value in real terms over next 30 years and with no mortgage to pay they can build up other assets and investments. Now: have house worth 15x average salary and long retirement paid for by Millenials to look forward to.
      
      Millenial buys house in 2016 for 15x salary, 2% inflation and 4% mortgage rate on 30 year mortgage. Repayments starting out at 90% of salary slowly dropping to 50% at end of 30 years. average 68% of salary over that 30 years. They delay having children because they just can’t afford it. At end they have paid 20x salary for a freehold house and will be nearing retirement with a house worth ~15x salary, (no chance of significant real house price appreciation as is already at limits of affordability for population) and having had no disposable income for other investments. They will have had to have lived with a partner who worked during majority of that period to have been able to afford it. They will have to provide for their own retirements as not enough children to support them in the way that was possible with Boomers. With luck they will have had no medical or relationship issues to beggar them as they fight they long slow path to home ownership.
      
      Boomers got really lucky. They benefited from high interest rates as they were young adults – creating a massive transfer in asset wealth from silent generation to them in a short period, then benefited from the huge drop in interest rates that inflated house values about 5x – a massive transfer in wealth from their children and grandchildren. Got mostly free education, Will receive life long superannuation in their dotage.
      
      Is the penny starting to drop yet? If you are a Boomer you have been the recipient of incredibly good economic fortune, that everyone before and after you is paying for. Your wealth is on average due to that luck, not greater industriousness or harder work, you have, on average, had it much easier than generations before or after you will have it. Not your fault, but worth considering before you start decrying other generations lack of whatever.
      
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      December 4, 2019 12:50pm
    - SGA
      
      Millennials spend so much time being outraged at this and offended by that
      
      The same could said for many of the Boomers on Kiwiblog, to be fair. 🙂
      
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      December 4, 2019 1:04pm
  - herb1
    
    Replying to your below comment Martin “capitalism requires low wages”
    Can you explain how high the wages are in the socialist utopias of Venezuela , Cuba , the old USSR and pre capitalist China.
    Cant explain? thought not
    
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    December 4, 2019 2:47pm
- rouppe
  
  So Gen X is stopping Millennials acquiring wealth? I mean they have THREE TIMES as much!
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:54am
- artemisia
  
  Boomers – savers.
  Non boomers – spenders.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:58am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Ok boomer…
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:19am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The difference is interest rates. High interest rates in 70’s and 80’s lead to a rapid transfer of wealth from old to young as mortgage debt was quickly inflated away and asset prices were kept low. 90’s on falling interest rates created massive asset price increases and have been a recipe for a life of high indebtedness and financial servitude.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:30am
    - IC5000
      
      > High interest rates in 70’s and 80’s lead to a rapid transfer of wealth from old to young as mortgage debt was quickly inflated away and asset prices were kept low.
      
      The last part of this is actually wrong. House prices were subject to asset inflation.
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:11am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Asset prices were kept low relative to real wages by high interest rates. 2-3x salary for a house was normal when mortgage rates were 20% Now 15x is normal with interest rates at 4%. House prices increase 5x in real terms as interest rates drop to a fifth of what they were in the 80’s. Asset prices are strongly correlated to inverse of interest rates – ie the interest payments required to service the debt.
        
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        December 4, 2019 1:29pm
      - IC5000
        
        I’m confused. How are asset prices ‘kept low’ compared to real wages? House prices were not controlled by the state during that period.
        
        Highly inflation periods favour the investor. If I had 10% equity in a 100k house and the value rose by asset inflation by 10% then my return on equity would be 100% while the value of the mortgage would be eroded away by inflation.
        
        Asset prices are also strongly correlated to the availability of credit since not many people have 700k lying around.
        
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        December 4, 2019 3:25pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Asset (house) prices are kept low in periods of high interest rates because purchasers cannot borrow more money than their incomes can cover.
        
        The other thing that has happened is that government has created layers of regulation and ticket-clipping expense that make both land and house construction vastly more expensive than 20 years ago, 3x increase per m² in a period where inflation has only been 1.5x. This has been excellent for boomers in that these choking restrictions on house supply have pushed up the price of existing homes to the very limits of what first home buyers can borrow – they are now extracting every cent possible from the young.
        
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        December 4, 2019 4:44pm
  - MCos
    
    That’s a big generalization
    Plus it doesn’t take into account the changing world we live in; not to mention personal circumstances.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:32am
    - artemisia
      
      Of course, it’s a huge generalisation. Just like lumping age groups together as if the groups are homogenous. Who would ever think of doing that?
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:38am
- Libertarians are right
  
  The reason for this is globalisation, technology and free movement. Basically, the US lost its middle class when businesses started moving their production etc to other countries. On the plus side there has been a massive reduction in poverty in those other countries so while young people aren’t as well off compared to their elders in the US, there are over a billion less people in poverty around the world.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:25am
- kevn
  
  @Urban…and when all the boomers depart, who gets the accumulation? Next generation.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:33am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Excepting for all the Skiing going on. (Spending Kid’s Inheritance) The consumption of Boomers is very high as they all feel so wealthy. Buying expensive toys; boats, beamers, beach houses and mansions in mission bay as well as spending up large on luxuries like monster houses, overseas trips and various expensive hobbies and recreations.
    
    I don’t really have an answer, though probably the most sensible way to address it would be means-tested superannuation, Boomers have received all this wealth from others, so could afford to pay their own way rather than being supported by their poorer children. However that is nearly impossible politically unless younger generations block together to force it.
    
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    December 4, 2019 1:36pm
artemisia

Transparent and transformative.

In the last few days Simon O’Connor (National, social housing) has asked a series of written questions about issues with emergency housing – damage, drugs, other antisocial behaviour, costs. Based on previous answers I expect there will be answers along the lines of – we don’t keep that level of detail but there’s a quarterly high level report of emergency housing grants.

Meantime, with new tenancy termination rules announced, neighbours of antisocial tenants want to know what Kainga Ora, motels owners with emergency occupants and private sector landlords are gong to do to protect their children and their neighbourhoods.

Apart from nothing or very little.
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December 4, 2019 8:06am
G152

Amusing… They (the rozzers) cant prevent under 20 year old kids getting and using now when its illegal.
Well done liebor, another long term fail
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December 4, 2019 8:07am
kevn

little has no idea. This legal cannabis plan is just a socialist, vote buying experiment.
swarbrick will have a lot to answer for as well.
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December 4, 2019 8:08am
LTA1955

Andrew Little on Hosk this morning…what a train wreck!!! Andrew needs to double the meds and do some yoga and then resign. Put this country out of its current misery of waking up to Labour Party idiots.
The BIG word here is “control” of which they have absolutely no understanding of what it means
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December 4, 2019 8:13am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I disagree. Labour governments ALWAYS know EXACTLY what “control” means, because that’s what they want to force on us every day.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:22am
- igm
  
  LTA: You should have heard that clown Nash . . . what the hell is wrong with voters in Napier . . . he is a dork of the highest order.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:25am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    You need to spell dork with a capital d when describing Nash.
    
    Turns out the best thing about Nash was getting a ride on his fire engine, what a disappointment he is.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:45am
Martin Williams

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I commented about this last night but it’s so important that I thought I’d do so again.

The is is the result of the disastrous John Key’s governments disruption and forced regression of the education industry in the form of among other things, National Standards.

Of course a the couple of replies last night came back with the typical ‘teachers are all Green voters and are shit and it’s all the fault of the unions’ response.

Seriously though, our slide down the rankings in core subjects is one of the more concerning results of right wing thought and practice.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/404762/nz-teenagers-hit-new-lows-in-reading-maths-and-science-tests
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December 4, 2019 8:15am
- Prince
  
  Teachers are all Green voters and are not very good and it’s all the fault of the unions.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:24am
- Blackbob
  
  Bollocks, It’s because Teachers have been forced to become social workers instead of teaching, not to mention the activist crusaders.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:30am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    My teacher is dedicated to the needs of the children, votes National and, will retire in the next five years to leave the profession after thirty or so years because the crap is just getting too difficult to negotiate.
    
    She is one of a dwindling number that is a teacher with the belief that she can make a difference to the lives of her bright smiling innocents, as my mother also believed.
    
    I despair for the future of education in New Zealand.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:50am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Ah, I knew the corollary would come.
      
      National voting teachers are sweet, all-knowing and benevolent.
      
      The rest are Union-hugging Green terrorists who hate children.
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:22am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        You really need to get out more.
        
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        December 4, 2019 1:05pm
- Tall Man
  
  Bullshit. Look at who is delivering what used to be called education and you may start to see the problem.
  
  If you knew anything at all, which you obviously don’t, you would realise that the “reforms” in education were started by the lange government and then aunty helen decided that she know more than any educators and the idiocy of NZQA was established under a labour government.
  
  I suggest you limit your commenting to subjects that you know about like how the victim of the rapist in ardern’s office is at fault.
  
  Told thee women in your life yet that rape victims are the problem, not the rapists?
  
  Thought not.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:31am
- cmm
  
  Maybe if our education system considered maths and science more important than taniwha mythology we might get somewhere.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:32am
- Libertarians are right
  
  When I go into town at lunch time there are always throngs of school kids in town due to some music/cultural event. There is a huge emphasis put on this kind of thing these days. While they’re learning this stuff there is less time spent on the core subjects. It’s that simple. That has nothing to do with right wing policies and you know it.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:39am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Removing National Standards is only going to accelerate this decline. The only way to reverse the slide is to smash the unions and bring in performance pay for teachers.
  
  NZ teachers are the laziest in the world (fully supported by the unions) and the sector as a whole is resembling the old railways and wharfies of the 70’s more and more every day.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:40am
- JackRabbit
  
  The education system has been going downhill for over 50 years. Introduction of Political Science and trendy leftie touchy feelly subjects hastened that slide.
  
  Enforcing people to learn Maori when the dominant language is English?
  
  And smoking weed will have no effect on students then?
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:47am
  - Batman
    
    Political science is a university programme not taught at schools.
    
    Direct your ire at the touchy feely focus on developing curiosity and happiness instead of writing and maths.
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:49am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Political science WAS taught in school in my era, as an extra curricular activity during lunch hours! It was considered a social experiment.
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:22am
      - Paulus
        
        When I was a secondary school many years ago in London ours was called “Policon” being Politics and Economics as they were/are very related.
        And one teacher was an avowed Communist but very clever too.
        
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        December 4, 2019 1:40pm
  - MCos
    
    I had to learn ‘Christian Doctrine’ and Latin. That took up a good chunk of every day. Not to mention ‘Army Cadets’ with parades and stuff.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:46am
    - OTGO
      
      Now hang on there MCos. If it wasn’t for Army Cadets I would never have been made sergeant of my own platoon, got to shoot a bren gun and .303, and get to ride in an iroquois helicopter.
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:02am
      - curry4me
        
        You too huh? At 4:46 every day, get key to armoury, and do section battle drills, or foot drill,or just do the boy scouts with machine guns routine. I loved high school.
        
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        December 4, 2019 6:54pm
  - oldgolfer
    
    I know a teacher who reckons half his students, most of the time, are whacked.
    I know a former forestry worker who said all his crew were spliffed out all the time.
    Yup, this will work out well.
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:10am
- chaos
  
  National standards were always a good idea. We had like wise when I was in school, it was a great way for teachers to be able to get extra help to those kids that needed it, problem is when I was in school we had great teachers that cared about the students and were never there for the pay check. Many teachers we have now are a disgrace of the profession.
  
  But alas I know people like you would prefer we just pass every student through the school system as passing and not get help to those who need it and not actually have an education system where students have to learn and pass exams.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:50am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    My wife was a teacher all the way back to small country schools with few students of all ages sharing a classroom. Ten years ago she got disgusted with the way things were going in today’s classroom and quit teaching. Too much politics, too many non core subjects having to be taught and too many unruly students.
    
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    December 4, 2019 10:12am
- Jack5
  
  More likely it’s teaching methods and curriculum that are taking New Zealand schools down.
  
  Too much time being spent on Green climate fears, Leftist-revised history, and Maori language and kapa haka. Maths and English should still be the focus.
  
  In international comparison (the Pisa tables) Britain in school maths standards has jumped from 27th to 18th in three years following moves to introduce Chinese teaching methods.
  
  The Telegraph says after a teacher exchange with China, Britain has trained thousands of primary schools to adopt the “Shanghai-style”, also known as the “maths mastery approach”.
  
  Children are taught as a whole class, and high-quality textbooks are used.
  
  Britain has set up maths “hubs” around the country to train teachers in the new methods.
  
  The Telegraph reports:
  
  Prof Valsa Koshy, an expert in maths education at Brunel University, said: “Importing maths teaching from Far Eastern countries means there has been an emphasis on children needing to master the basic facts and traditional skills such as times tables. This used to be laughed at as too old fashioned.
  
  We are bringing in tens of thousands of rich Chinese Communists as “entrepreneurs” just when they reach the stage they would like to live in a quiet leisure-oriented land with beaches.
  
  We should instead target as immigrants Chinese maths teachers.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:51am
  - SGA
    
    We should instead target as immigrants Chinese maths teachers.
    
    Provided their English is good enough 🙂
    I remember one Asian math lecturer years ago – I am sure he was very bright, but we couldn’t understand a lot of what he was saying. In that context, we could work around it because we were already reasonably capable in mathematics and would follow what he was writing on the board, but most high school students wouldn’t cope under similar circumstances.
    
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    December 4, 2019 2:55pm
    - Jack5
      
      SGA, your Asian maths lecturer wouldn’t by any chance have been a Chinese maths lecturer at Canterbury, by any chance.
      
      Could it have been the same lecturer of decades ago whose spoken English was tortured but who also wrote on the board much of what he said.
      
      He endured, and cheerfully ignored rambunctious, even at times racist, engineering students.
      
      A likeable academic with a sense of humour, and a top maths teacher.
      
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      December 4, 2019 6:50pm
- rouppe
  
  The teachers turned National Standards – a MINIMUM standard – into a target.
  
  Not the other way around
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:56am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  There was a drop between 2009 and 2012. Nobody knows why but National Standards did not come in until 2010/11 so too late to have the effect you are suggesting. Since 2012, scores have held steady. If anything, the data suggests National Standards were responsible for stopping the previous decline.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:07am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  On the whole, primary and Intermediate teachers in NZ are lousy at teaching maths and science.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12170468
  
  Too many children reach secondary school with major gaps in their learning.
  
  It’s difficult for these kids to catch up without intensive input (which usually needs to happen beyond the regular school lesson).
  
  We have always known that there is a long-tail of low achievers in our school system.
  
  As the article above shows …. the tail is very apparent by year 8 (old Form 2).
  
  It looks like it is time for primary and intermediate schools to employ specialist maths, science and literacy-recovery teachers.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:24am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I have one at primary and one at intermediate. My experience is that schools are ok at teaching literacy and numeracy and do put a lot of time into it. The standard expected is not high and I probably wouldn’t back the 10 year old’s teacher in a spelling or maths contest against some of the kids in her class. But that doesn’t explain the low achievers and I blame the ‘parents’ for that not the school.
    
    Schools don’t really even try to teach science. Don’t ask a twelve year old how plants make food, why the sky is blue, or how gravity works. They won’t know and their teacher probably won’t either.
    
    The biggest things schools can do better is grouping kids by ability not age. A class of kids at the same ability level is much easier to teach. But that is unlikely to happen because it would be inequitable or something.
    
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    December 4, 2019 10:26am
    - OTGO
      
      Our kids went to a school with a high percentage of Asian students. Their first fifteen sucked but the schools academic achievement was very high in maths and physics. For our kids to compete we paid for them to take maths classes after and away from school. We did this for two reasons:
      1. The Asians understood the subjects quicker than the others. Don’t know why they just did. And this often left the others behind.
      2. Our kids both played in the top netball, basketball and touch teams so we had to refocus them with after hours math.
      They hated it (and us probably) at the time but appreciate it now.
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:13am
      - lifesgood
        
        I am teaching my grandchildren, aged 8 and 6, their times tables. They have never been taught them in school. This is a disgrace. Knowing your times tables is an important and useful tool for life. The other thing that shocks me is the complete absence of any lessons in grammar. It is all about “expressing yourself” now. I fail to see why you can’t express yourself AND use good grammar to do it. Mind you, most of the teachers haven’t a clue about grammar themselves
        
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        December 4, 2019 12:22pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      How do plants make food? Why is the sky blue? And how does gravity work? Not 1 in 1000 adults could answer any of those questions with much more than broadest handwaving answers – ie knowing the what but not the how. I am really well informed about technology, and I couldn’t give you good answers (though I could educate myself very quickly)
      
      Gravity in particular is probably understood by less than 1 in 10000 or 100000
      
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      December 4, 2019 1:46pm
  - chwaga
    
    We have two grandchildren – one at primary and one at intermediate. Both schools still report National Standards as they say there is nothing else in place to assist them to report. Both grand children have had to have extra maths tuition through Kip McGrath and are now achieving well above average.
    The younger got praised by her teacher and retorted that it was the Kip McGrath teaching that had helped her to achieve which upset the teacher no end. I might add that previously when she asked the teacher to explain the teacher put her down so severely that she got to the stage where she would not ask for help. Instead she would ask a classmate to explain and the teacher put her down for talking in class. A good number of the class have resorted to external tuition.
    
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    December 4, 2019 12:00pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  From personal experience between 1980s and 1990s there was over 1 year of slippage in maths curriculum at high school level. The decline has only accelerated and is exacerbated by low-quality of people getting into teaching – far too many barely numerate no-hopers.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The curriculum went all fuzzy some years ago. I encountered one of my boys being taught basic GST calculations in years 9, 10 and 11! That should have disposed of by year 8.
    
    Time tables are a waste. Number facts need instant recall. A simple matrix of multiplication has only 72 items to learn. I taught my daughter those in a week.
    
    Mathematicians invaded the curriculum endeavouring to make all pupils think as they strangely do. I was one of the top handful in High School but I have never thought as a mathematician although I can render relationships into equations. We cannot expect our teachers to think that way nor I believe is it teachable except to a select few.
    Maths for most is basic arithmetic with some elementary geometry. Science needs further and may take in calculus. Some may need statistics but that has a sub-maths level too.
    
    Most people will never need the viewpoint of the mind of a pure mathematician. Even computer programming has been invaded. The women largely outed because for many their skills are largely verbal. The mathsmad changed the whole way of description and thinking.
    
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    December 4, 2019 2:52pm
MT_Tinman

Headline on Newshub.co.nz

Aaron Archer doesn’t have a dark past.

If he did he would have name suppression.
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December 4, 2019 8:15am
- The King
  
  He’s White, only precious brown people get name suppression.
  
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  December 4, 2019 10:34am
All_on_Red

Kamala Harris has given up.
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December 4, 2019 8:16am
- Than
  
  That was a bit of a surprise. OK, she wasn’t making much headway, but she was doing better than a bunch of candidates still in the running.
  
  My pick is Booker will be the next significant candidate to drop out. Not only is he looking extremely unlikely to qualify for the December debate, he hasn’t even managed a single qualifying poll.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:22am
  - Batman
    
    I think the main factor is that her campaign organisation fell apart and at this point that’s a fatal injury.
    
    Then again, what would any of us know? Haha
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:45am
    - Tall Man
      
      And why would we care?
      
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      December 4, 2019 9:36am
    - All_on_Red
      
      I think it’s pretty clear some know more than others…
      
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      December 4, 2019 4:28pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    She never really recovered from the attack on her by Tulsi Gabbard at one of the debates. And according to her campaign workers anyway, she really isn’t a nice person at all.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:23am
- cmm
  
  She thought all she had to do was tick the boxes:
  * wimminz
  * color
  
  But bugger, it was harder than that!
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:26am
  - MrLovebucket
    
    If you get the MSM to give you a free ride, it makes a massive difference. This factor alone can make an ordinary citizen, with no real world ability, the PM of an entire 2nd world country (was first world).
    
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    December 4, 2019 8:42am
JibberJabber

Premium Perenium,
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/teach-me/117899068/celebrities-are-sunning-their-pereniums-you-should-not

I`m OK, the Sun actually shines outta mine…..
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December 4, 2019 8:21am
Fletch

I heard Hosking interview Little on the radio about the Cannabis thing. Little really has no idea. Hosking pointed out that he had rung people in Colorado and Canada (where little says the legislation is working) and no, it is NOT working over there.

It’s a mess in both places. In Canada the gangs still run the black market because nobody wants to buy pot from the govt. And they have no idea how to control potency. In Colorado there’s been a spike in kids and teenagers being treated for addiction. A “27 per cent increase in kids with troubles – 70 per cent of those cases come from states that have legalised dope”.

Colorado. A bloke called Sam Wong, a doctor who works at the children’s hospital has seen for himself the effects of making dope legal. He’s seen it locally, and had it confirmed in a nationwide study he conducted.

Remember when we talked to Chloe Swarbrick and she told us to look at Colorado, and we did. We interviewed a police force member who dealt with drugs. He said as clearly and as loudly as possible, don’t do it.

Sam Wong says the same. There has been a spike in kids and teenagers being treated for addiction. Babies finding caregivers’ edible cannabis products are ending up in hospital. There’s a 27 per cent increase in kids with troubles – 70 per cent of those cases come from states that have legalised dope.

THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) levels have gone from 3.7 per cent to 20 per cent. Once it’s legalised it’s easy to get the highest grade in the strongest form.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12258289

Hosking and Little (Starts at 7:07) Little basically dissembles and doesn’t make a good argument.

https://weekondemand.newstalkzb.co.nz/WeekOnDemand/ZB/auckland/2019.12.04-07.00.00-D.mp3
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December 4, 2019 8:30am
- kloyd0306
  
  It’s a long term conspiracy by Labour to keep voters so stupified that they don’t care who runs the country.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:47am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Everywhere you go in Vancouver, Seattle etc. now just permanently stink of weed. It’s gross.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:57am
cmm

Jarrod Gilbert, sorry Doctor Harrod Gilbert, would rather have cats than kids. Perhaps he should have become a vet nurse rather than a sociologist.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12290228

Real reason: cats won’t nick your weed.
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December 4, 2019 8:31am
- Ruahine
  
  I applaud Jarrod Gilbert. People like him are better to drop out of procreation.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:12am
Yvette

Don’t take your guns to town

Following an Ardern dictum – ‘I can tell you one thing right now. Our gun laws will change’ [1] – the Government has somewhat impetuously banned a whole bunch of firearms and paid people who handed theirs in, but authorities won’t or can’t tell you now how many amnestied people used that money to buy newer although slower weapons.

But, since March 15, on at least one occasion just ordinary media reported a New Zealand extremist but utterly simple scheme that explained how to kill more people with those fractionally slower weapons – which of course is fucking scary, but hardly any one noticed – Shit! I thought, if they can’t print the Tarrant manifesto, how is this item acceptable (and still available online) – but it was only an impressionable fantasise schoolboy, who they were going to unscramble – so don’t worry about it … not too much.

This has echoes of the anti-smacking law when teachers noticed some children in the school yard bashing younger kids who were actually family members and when hauled up and asked “Why?”, the offenders had said “Our mother told us to … because she is not allowed” – these people may be criminals, but not all of them are bloody stupid. Where there is an obsession, there is always a means.

So, no – I didn’t feel any safer really … and that was before Monday’s gun register data leak, “human error”, “software failure” or whatever platitude you want to choose.
Winston says “a mistake made by a German IT company” – so that’s OK , they are fucking thousands of miles away – “serious teething problems, we acknowledge that”, but Who went bloody ape over his own exposed “private details”, although he actually made those more public himself than anyone else did?
So, “Concerning to hear about privacy breach on the gun ‘buy back’ programme. Need to know security will be maintained moving forward with reforms”
– Winston Twittered.

As has been said last Sunday here on kiwiblog, just before this data issue – No wonder so many people still to trade in their firearms consider the Government is not mentally fit to handle them.
____________
[1] The morning after March 15 https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/christchurch-terror-attack-our-gun-laws-will-change-jacinda-ardern.html
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December 4, 2019 8:32am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  well I’ve bought two nice new ones with my Jacinda bucks, and used some of the rest to donate to the Fair and Reasonable Campaign. Win-win really. I dump some old crap, and get reasonable cash for it and reinvest in nice shiny new scary black guns!
  
  What’s not to like?
  
  Oh yes, that some stupid incompetent fuckers, who utterly failed to manage their duties under the last Arms Act, have now released my name, bank account, license number and address details onto the dark net.
  
  Thanks very much! So much for trust and confidence!
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:11pm
hullkiwi

Take a bow the NZ Education system, for the 10th year in a row, NZ 15 year olds have continued the slide in reading, maths and science achievement when measured against their international peers.

And just for the record it is not because Maori and Polynesian students can’t handle school because it is not conforming to their culture or giving them enough chances to learn kapahaka or the finer points of face scribbles.

Or forefathers established our education system so we could compete with people from the other developed centers in the world.

I may be wrong, but in my opinion not being able to read, write, add etc, is more likely going to start denying NZ children opportunities in the international centers of commerce and industry. Not being able to do kapahaka or knowing the finer details of face scribble is not going to hurt their opportunities.

It is time to stop the bulls**t and start addressing the fact that NZ children are sliding backwards when compared to their peers and ensure the trend is reversed. Rather than trucking out bullsh*t excuses every year.

Finally, given that the NZ education system has been producing a generation of under achievers what hope is there of NZ ever addressing the under performance of the country’s productivity or we end up with politicians that are numpties?
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December 4, 2019 8:39am
- Scott
  
  Hull Kiwi – you make some very good points about our education system. My children got a reasonable education at Wairarapa College. But one thing I noticed was that the boys lag behind the girls. The academic prizes are mostly won by girls. And the NCEA pass rates show that girls outperform boys by as many as 10 percentage points. People are also concerned about lower performance for Maori and Pacific Island students.
  
  Unlike Martin Williams I would suggest that we need more right wing education reforms not less. At the moment we have Socialist education where the government educates 90% of our children. I would like to see more choice for parents and more free market. Specifically we could have charter schools, we could look at a voucher system, high performing schools such as Auckland Grammar could establish satellite schools.
  
  In the same way that competition improves price and performance in the free market, so competition would improve price and performance with education. Charter schools were doing a good job with minority students. It gave the parents some choice.
  
  So let’s free up our education system, ditch Socialist state funded monopoly on education and let’s get some choice out there.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:59am
  - Fletch
    
    It is telling how the students in charter schools were doing so well away from our government-run schools, yet the govt shut them down. Can’t have schools not under the thumb.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:10am
    - curry4me
      
      In 1970, NZ schools in the top three worldwide.
      
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      December 4, 2019 7:08pm
  - MrLovebucket
    
    Get rid of the Unions and the problem will be solved 🙂
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:58am
  - SGA
    
    At the moment we have Socialist education where the government educates 90% of our children.
    
    Which has been true for the last century in NZ, and is also true of nearly all developed countries in the world (including most of those above us on these tests). In and of itself, I think it is astretch to blame state education systems in general for the situation in NZ now.
    
    Isn’t it better to ask what the high performing countries are doing that we aren’t?
    
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    December 4, 2019 10:03am
- septic skeptic
  
  I suspect the biggest problem is that by the time high IQ parents are having their first kid the low IQ parents already have for and might be expecting the first grandchild.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:11am
  - Joely Doe
    
    It’s not a satire, it’s a documentary!
    
    Idiocracy
    
    3 mins that sums up NZ, USA, UK, Australia et al.
    
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    December 4, 2019 4:58pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The education system is far from perfect but the main cause of the problem is poor parenting which is in turn caused by overly generous welfare.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:12am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Nigel, it is as much poor parenting as a poor education system.
    
    Over the past 30 years:
    1. The curriculum has been watered down, and changed. How many remember in the 1990s children being taught “peace studies” now it is the dangers of “food and what is our children’s lunchbox” (I kid you not, my son came home and told us he was told we should eat less red meat. My son attends a rural school surround by sheep and beef cows), or the “what the climate emergency means”.
    2. In 1989, ERO replaced the School Inspectors. Over the past 30 years that mandate of ERO has been changed such that an inspection is a box ticking exercise.
    3. How teachers are trained, and measured has been such, that it is debateable whether the abilities of a graduate teacher today has the skills of teachers in previous eras.
    
    Throw in poor parenting, or home environment and the bulk of NZ’s future don’t stand much of a chance.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:51am
    - SGA
      
      I kid you not, my son came home and told us he was told we should eat less red meat.
      
      Speaking as a devoted omnivore with a fondness for dead animal flesh, that does seem to be the advice of most medical/nutritional experts (to be fair).
      
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      December 4, 2019 11:50am
      - hullkiwi
        
        SGA, I think you’ll find the Assoc Min of Health was told to keep her opinions to herself earlier this year. This was after her attempt to instruct DHB Dietitians to change hospital diets by removing meat options from patients.
        
        She was told resolutely “STFU”, on the basis that recovering patients ofter need to consume iron as part of their recovery.
        
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        December 4, 2019 2:04pm
      - SGA
        
        What’s that got to do with anything? Let’s stick with your original comment. As far as I am aware, “eat less red meat” is hardly a radical or fringe view – it’s pretty standard nutritional advice from medical/nutritional experts. Advice that I don’t follow all that well, tbh (but I probably eat more fish and chicken than I did 10 years ago). It’s hardly the rallying cry of militant vegetarians and their vegan shock troops 🙂
        
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        December 4, 2019 2:24pm
- The King
  
  My 15 year old isn’t sliding at all.
  
  Stop blaming the education system for the failure of non-Whites succeeding and address the issue that non-White parents are the leading cause of their children’s failure.
  
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  December 4, 2019 10:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Have you managed to teach your 15-year-old about the difference between whites and non-whites?
    
    5 8
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    December 4, 2019 10:50am
    - The King
      
      He doesn’t need teaching, you learn who to not trust in primary school.
      
      6 4
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      December 4, 2019 11:24am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        What about those who look white?
        
        3 2
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        December 4, 2019 12:02pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        What about those who are white but choose to identify as maori?
        
        3 0
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        December 4, 2019 1:16pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Pfft! The greatest academic and musical achievements these days come from Asian pupils. Their parents push and supervise. Their cultures have a strong work ethic.
    
    The most pathetic, weak parenting I see where I live (north shore), is by flabby white parents who don’t have any expectations at all of their kids and just let them behave pretty much any way they like.
    
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    December 4, 2019 6:13pm
igm

Has Andrew Little, Ardern, Davis interefered in extraditing Dotcom?
Were we not going to hear he was getting tipped out end of November . . . seems to have gone very quiet.
Maybe he is now a large donor to CoL coffers.
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December 4, 2019 8:46am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Supreme Court decision pending. Expected before Christmas.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:01am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  The issue is entirely dependent on the Supreme Court. They have yet to issue their judgement.
  
  If KDC wins the appeal then he stays. That would be the end of the matter.
  
  If he loses then it goes to Little to decide whether he stays or goes. In that case I would expect Little to respect the judgement of the court and say he goes. However, if that happens KDC will apply for judicial review and the whole things starts afresh, first going to the High Court, then appeals to the Court of Appeal and inevitably to the Supreme Court.
  
  The earliest KDC would go (assuming he loses) is 2023.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:24am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Thanks for that depressing news Wayne.
    What the f***is wrong with our legal system?
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:54am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Little.
      
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      December 4, 2019 1:18pm
    - rangitoto
      
      I’m sure that lawyers think it’s great. Ka-ching.
      
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      December 4, 2019 2:23pm
chaos

* Robertson’s announcement that he would bring forward key infrastructure projects isn’t just significant for how it appears on the surface. It signals a more fundamental shift in how we think about public debt .

This is because the investment plan will almost certainly break one of the Government’s “Budget Responsibility Rules (BRRs)”, specifically the promise to have net debt below 20 per cent of GDP by 2021/22.

The Government’s last set of fiscal forecasts, released at the Budget in May, predicted net debt to GDP would hit 19.9 per cent in 2022, or $69 billion. With each percentage point worth about $3b, even a slight loosening of the target will unleash enormous investment in the economy.

It looks like the Government will elide its two targets. In 2022, the rules were meant to be replaced by a new debt “window”, obliging the Government to keep net debt between 15 and 25 per cent of GDP. It looks like Robertson will bring that window forward, allowing debt to rise by 2022. *

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117904286/government-debt-changes-are-more-important-than-just-a-number
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December 4, 2019 8:57am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Good time to invest, with extremely low interest rates worldwide.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:21am
chaos

* Moving Auckland’s port would increase imports costs by more than $500 million a year, according to a new report.

Ports of Auckland released the study, which was carried out by NZIER, on Wednesday.

The findings show that if the port is moved out of the city and freight needs to be delivered to Auckland from more distant ports, the cost of imports could rise between $533 million and $626 million a year.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/12/moving-auckland-s-port-would-see-500-million-increase-in-import-costs-report.html
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December 4, 2019 9:01am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Is that all?
  
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  December 4, 2019 11:55am
Fletch

I am tending to think of Prince Andrew’s excuses etc as rather dodgy (like most people) but his ex Koo Stark says not?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2953899/Koo-Stark-reveals-truth-Prince-Andrew-32-years-silence-Prince-s-ex-lover-gives-account-affair-defend-sex-slave-claims.html
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December 4, 2019 9:08am
septic skeptic

I suspect the biggest problem is that by the time high IQ parents are having their first kid the low IQ parents already have four and might be expecting the first grandchild.
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December 4, 2019 9:11am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Right. Welfare causes evolution to run in reverse. And the successful kids may well go overseas right after we’ve paid for their education, making the problem even worse.
  
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  December 4, 2019 11:14am
Paulus

Stephen Joyce was wrong and right.
His $11 Billion deficit is now about $26 Billion and will be over $30 Billion in a year.
Creative Accounting will hide the new overseas about to be borrowings too.
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December 4, 2019 9:29am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  We always knew that, even the Cameron Bagries of this world knew that but could just not bring themselves to say it.
  
  You know, the school of ‘bash the Tories irrespective of how sensible the argument is because, well they are Tories and deserve it!’
  
  The question always has been; how far over the $11 billion will the final disaster be?
  
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  December 4, 2019 1:25pm
- Poppa
  
  Borrow & spend Paulus, that is Labour philosophy
  
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  December 4, 2019 2:32pm
redeye

UK Politics:
I watch the Mahyar Tousi video every morning for a right wing slant on the UK elections. This mornings was a trimmer. He showed a clip of a focus group of UK labour voters and their attitudes towards Boris, Corbyn & Brexit.
Really funny stuff if you have a spare five minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngwhUqIU5P8
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December 4, 2019 9:33am
- curry4me
  
  I’m a fan of his too.
  
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  December 4, 2019 7:24pm
lastmanstanding

A question

If Labour decides to gift NZF a seat which seats have sufficient cross over as does Epsom in the case of the Nats and Act.

Labour would have to stand their candidate aside and offer them a high list place and ensure Labour voters gave their constituent vote to NZF.
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December 4, 2019 9:37am
- hullkiwi
  
  Such a deal means National has to drive NZF’s vote below 2%!
  
  Remember, NZF are the Labour party in drag!
  
  11 1
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  December 4, 2019 9:54am
  - chaos
    
    Nz first benefited last election from stupid idiots on the right thinking Winston would go with national. Winston has lost them, he need to take votes off labour as will the greens
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:02am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Still polling at 4% though 🙁
      
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      December 4, 2019 1:52pm
- MrLovebucket
  
  First of all, rule #1 in politics is it’s different when the left do it.
  
  #2. Labour are going to gift Tai Tokerau to Shane Jones. Kelvin Davis will be told to stand aside (high list place) and he will do what he is told. Why do you think Buffoon Jones started singing in maori to the farmers recently.
  
  Shane can’t win Northland so needs something considered much safer. Hopefully the Maori party seize this as an opportunity.
  
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  December 4, 2019 10:04am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Jones has already lost one electoral contest in a Maori seat, in addition to the three he has lost in general seats.
    
    After losing to John Carter in Northland in 2005 and 2008, Jones stood in Tamaki Makaurau in 2011, and lost again, to Dr Pita Sharples. He then stood in Whangarei in 2017 after three years of political retirement, and lost for a fourth time, placing third behind Dr Shane Reti and the Labour candidate. I suspect the Maori Party would be rubbing its collective hands in glee if Jones stood in Te Tai Tokerau next year, especially if they were able to attract a candidate with the profile and ability, for example, of Dr Lance O’Sullivan.
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:56am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Might it come down to Harawira vs Jones? Hobson’s choice!
    
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    December 4, 2019 12:43pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Epsom voters are intelligent enough to make this strategy work and David Seymour shares their values and works hard as an electorate MP so they are happy to vote for him.
  
  Labour trying to gift one of their safe seats to an NZ First candidate is unlikely to be as successful.
  
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  December 4, 2019 11:23am
- cmm
  
  Can they really gift a seat?
  
  With the National/ACT “cup of tea”, you’re pretty well sure that the Nat voters will swing in behind ACT.
  
  Does that work with Labour? If Labour withdraws would they swing in behind NZF?
  
  I’m not so sure. I think they will just not vote.
  
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  December 4, 2019 11:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Surely this kind of decision lies with the Party and the new President Ms Szabo ?
    
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    December 4, 2019 1:48pm
lastmanstanding

IMHO on the matter of political donations all the parties want either a free for all or to be funded from the public purse.

They are playing a cynical game with tax payers talking up the risk of foreign and or NZ pay for play ( a real issue IMHO and one that has gone on for too long).

They know they wont get a free for all so the next best thing is to suck on the taxpayer to peddle their lies to the voters.

A plague on all their houses and may they all live in interesting times.
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December 4, 2019 9:44am
- MCos
  
  On the one hand tax payer funded political campaigns would theoretically tone down the corruption of donations from interested parties from vested interests such as corporations and unions. And it wouldn’t be all that expensive.
  On the other hand donations from ‘everyday Kiwis’ gives them a stake in the party they support.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:55am
curry4me

Bloomberg has close business ties with China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0VtJ1sV-Dw
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December 4, 2019 9:48am
curry4me

Northern Labour voters back Boris.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngwhUqIU5P8
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December 4, 2019 9:49am
Hugh Pavletich

LATEST IPSOS NZ FULL ISSUES SURVEY NOW AVAILABLE ONLINE …

NEW ZEALAND: When does Jacinda Ardern’s coalition government intend to allow affordable housing to be built … by dealing with land supply and proper infrastructure financing … as promised ?

… Are there any lessons being learnt from the Greater Christchurch new supply story, where the population growth is greater than Auckland ? …

… No wonder a The Listener editorial February described this governments management of housing issues as ‘ … from crisis to disaster’ … following highly critical The New York Times and The Guardian articles soon after the release of the 15th Annual Demographia Survey 21 January … refer http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org …

Ipsos NZ Issues Monitor November 2019

https://www.ipsos.com/en-nz/ipsos-nz-issues-monitor-november-2019

Auckland, 2 December 2019 – More than three out of five New Zealanders (62%) believe they cannot afford to buy a home in their local property market, according to the latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor. Just 38% of respondents said they think they could afford to buy a home, compared to a 42% global average. Housing remains the top issue facing New Zealanders. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… Auckland 3 bed rents surge from $650 per week November 2018 to $686 per week November 2019 … MBIE figures …

End of Day Report … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/102856/review-things-you-need-know-you-go-home-tuesday-anz-raises-home-loan-rate-cuts-terms

… extract …

… STEEP RENT RISES

The national median rent has now reached a new record high of $454.50/week, up from $445/week in October and up +5.7% pa. Median 3 bdr house rents have jumped to $491.67/week, a rise of +9.3% in one year. In Auckland the rise is +5.5% to $686/week. In Wellington for the same 3 bdr house it is up to $663, an +11% rise in a year. In Christchurch it is up +3% to $433/week and that is not a record high. Christchurch has a full supply of houses for rent, no doubt keeping things restrained. But that is not the case in Wellington and Auckland both of which hit new record highs. And as the increases have mounted quickly in the past few months, you do have to wonder if the recent flurry of building standard obligations (all of them welcome) haven’t pushed up rents faster that they would otherwise have risen. The certainly are steep rises in a short time period. Rents for 2 br flats aren’t rising anywhere near as fast. (Our data is supplied by MBIE.)
.
.
Voters do not deliver votes to governments that do not deliver results …

… Governments lose elections … Oppositions don’t win them …

Labour result lowest in two years, National-ACT could form Govt – 1 NEWS Colmar Brunton poll … TVNZ

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-result-lowest-in-two-years-national-act-could-form-govt-1-news-colmar-brunton-poll
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December 4, 2019 10:05am
- sooty
  
  Link whoring again, hughie!
  What no one looking at your site still?
  
  6 2
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  December 4, 2019 1:19pm
RW Capitalist

On Monday, I was driving home from New Plymouth.
I couldn’t find a decent station, so found Heather Du Plecy Alan, on some talk show.
I tuned in, just in time to hear her taking the piss out of Jacinda Ardern. For apparently saying that Labour’s slogan at the next election, should be…..
“lets keep doing this”.
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December 4, 2019 10:10am
- chaos
  
  I heard jacinda proclaim her government had done more than the previous. Damn wouldnt you like to try the drugs she had for her wisdom teeth, over a week and she’s still delusional
  
  21 0
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  December 4, 2019 10:59am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    I heard jacinda proclaim her government had done more DAMAGE than the previous.
    There, fixed it for her.
    
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    December 4, 2019 11:24am
- Rich Prick
  
  Doing what exactly? Fucking things up seems to be Labour’s only major achievement.
  
  16 0
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  December 4, 2019 11:21am
BeaB

“New Zealand Human Rights Commission
13 hours ago
Meng Foon – Race Relations Commissioner: This cartoon is extremely appalling and distasteful. It shows very poor judgement by the cartoonist and those involved in publishing it.

To make fun of the fatal measles epidemic that has claimed the lives of many innocent children is a slap in the face to grieving families in Samoa, here and overseas. It is also disrespectful to New Zealand citizens of Samoan heritage.

I am very embarrassed that this cartoon originated in New Zealand…”

If this is ‘appalling’ what is he going to say when it’s something really bad instead of just a lame cartoon in a small provincial newspaper.
A massive over-reaction from everyone except the cartoonist.
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December 4, 2019 10:37am
- RW Capitalist
  
  https://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/f/flu_pandemic.asp
  any complaints?
  
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  December 4, 2019 11:22am
- The King
  
  When is Meng Foon going to denounce his fellow Chinese for putting other Chinese in concentration camps?
  
  6 3
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  December 4, 2019 11:31am
- Jules99
  
  I didn’t think it was funny, but that’s what cartoonists are for – to push the boundaries. He probably missed this time, but nothing to get outraged about.
  
  4 1
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  December 4, 2019 1:09pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s pretty weak, but absolutely nothing to complain about. Black humor has a place and we need to resist all attempts by the self appointed guardians of propriety to control the world. They can fuck right off if they want to pretend that their narcissistic little hissy fits have any importance.
  
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  December 4, 2019 2:04pm
- The only red for me is that of Manchester United
  
  I wonder if those who protested outside the ODT knew who New Zealander David Low was and what he did?
  
  Tremain’s cartoon wasn’t even that funny.
  
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  December 4, 2019 2:30pm
- srylands
  
  Totally agree. I commented below..
  
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  December 4, 2019 3:33pm
freethinker

Yes and get SAP to design the software – worked for Firearms OK – not!
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December 4, 2019 10:38am
John Warren

Your thoughts?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/117890937/education-minister-fails-to-decipher-fact-from-fiction?cid=app-android#comments
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December 4, 2019 10:39am
- Tall Man
  
  They want everyone to be too dumb to think.
  
  3 0
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  December 4, 2019 3:01pm
Maggie Pie

My partner retweets… [graphic 🙁 ]

“I wonder how many filthy b~~tards like this have they let into this country?”

https://twitter.com/V_of_Europe/status/1201950950581264384
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December 4, 2019 10:53am
- Martin Williams
  
  We let the Christchurch mass murderer in.
  
  He is Lily white.
  
  1 20
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  December 4, 2019 11:48am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    “Who’s this WE, White Man?”
    
    13 0
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    December 4, 2019 1:14pm
  - Tall Man
    
    And ardern altered the legislation allowing him to arm himself without police intervention.
    
    So, ardern empowers rapists and green terrorists.
    
    I guess that’s the labour way.
    
    9 1
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    December 4, 2019 3:02pm
  - Jack5
    
    Martin, the reason Tarrant had easy access to New Zealand is that New Zealand is desperate to keep visa-free entry to Australia for New Zealanders.
    
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    December 4, 2019 6:54pm
- Jules99
  
  Can’t remember if it was the first or second gang of Muslim rapists convicted and jailed in the UK, raping white girls, one 11 years old, but when their mothers and wives were asked if they were ashamed they said, no the girls were white trash.
  
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  December 4, 2019 1:06pm
trout

Another fake article in the Herald blaming racism for a Samoan baby being refused measles immunization in NZ. Kid was ‘Samoan’, ‘didn’t have a passport’ etc. etc. Buried in the piece was the truth; the baby was not with its parents, and the clinic required parental consent before proceeding with the jab. Otherwise clinics are free to give all and sundry (including visitors) immunization. The caregivers in this case did not do their homework, get caught short, so respond by crying racism, discrimination etc.etc. and some junior reporter falls for it.
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December 4, 2019 11:15am
- The King
  
  NZ herald be like..
  
  “Fuck White colonialists”
  
  Also
  
  “White colonialists please help!”
  
  13 1
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  December 4, 2019 11:33am
- cmm
  
  There should be consequences for shit reporting like this.
  
  12 0
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  December 4, 2019 11:45am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s what the Press Council is for. Here’s where you can make a complaint online:
    
    https://www.mediacouncil.org.nz/complaints
    
    7 1
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    December 4, 2019 11:59am
- Classic Liberal
  
  The clinic owners should sue the ass off the Herald for defamation. I am utterly sick of people making false ‘racism’ etc accusations without suffering the consequences!
  
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  December 4, 2019 6:26pm
The King

The mask slips.

Greta Thunberg said that her “climate crisis” agenda is not just about the environment, but about fighting the “colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression.”

Well there it is folks exactly what we knew right from the start.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/greta-snaps-change-everything-climate-crisis-about-colonial-racist-and-patriarchal-systems-of-oppression-fossil-fuel-literally?
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December 4, 2019 11:43am
- John Warren
  
  Here we fucking go. Why am I surprised? Oh no, I’m not actually.
  
  11 0
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  December 4, 2019 12:09pm
- Rich Prick
  
  The bog standard leftist trifecta. It’s so 2018.
  
  12 1
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  December 4, 2019 12:33pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  So about wealth redistribution then? What a surprise.
  
  8 0
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  December 4, 2019 12:52pm
- Ruahine
  
  Does she mean Saudi Arabia perhaps.
  
  6 0
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  December 4, 2019 2:05pm
- Cobolt24
  
  “colonial, racist and patriarchal systems” Those third world places need coal, oil and other fossil fuels to become wealthy. She’s the racist one if she wants to hold them back.
  
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/13/sorry-greta-india-needs-more-coal-to-power-growth/
  
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  December 5, 2019 9:23am
Maggie Pie

Been listening on and off to Peter Williams Magic.
Anyone else like me that thinks regular stoners who support the legalisation of cannabis, would do their cause a lot more favors by NOT actually phoning talk back to try and express their views?
Honestly, i havent come across one yet that isn’t already a brian addled moron 🙁
22 0
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December 4, 2019 12:07pm
- DigNap15
  
  Yes they all speak very s l o w l y
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:07pm
JibberJabber

I`m no gynaecologist, but I know c#*t when I see one….
https://twitter.com/trustednerd/status/1201665480504668162
16 1
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December 4, 2019 12:32pm
- skyblue
  
  No cu$t there at all. Just a dickless bloke. Loved the comments.
  
  7 0
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  December 4, 2019 12:59pm
- Jules99
  
  Some great comments – I think most reasonable people get it.
  
  6 0
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  December 4, 2019 1:00pm
- chaos
  
  Laughing at Blaire white.
  
  5 0
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  December 4, 2019 1:06pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Could always self diagnose from Pornhub or something . . .
  
  2 0
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  December 4, 2019 1:38pm
Sacha

Just looked at the Tremain cartoon that everyone is getting in a stew over.
A feeble joke at best –
https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/04-12-2019/odt-cartoonist-infuriates-his-colleagues-with-samoa-measles-epidemic-joke/
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December 4, 2019 1:04pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s better than anything Stringer has done here, but that’s an awfully low bar…
  
  5 6
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  December 4, 2019 2:08pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s not a joke in Samoa. Samoa look up to NZ and will feel let down.
  
  The Samoan Way is NZ will be accorded status (which we may never have sought) but will be treated honourably accordingly. That indirectly creates an expectation on Samoa’s part that NZ will respond to their requests for help on demand. A mutuality gets created.
  I doubt if the cartoonist had any notions about how others might receive his work.
  Pray for healing in Samoa.
  
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  December 4, 2019 8:00pm
- Ruahine
  
  Tremain doing his job again. Well Done.
  
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  December 4, 2019 9:53pm
cut n paster

Coalition shipwreck
https://ibb.co/brQBqN0
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December 4, 2019 1:09pm
Maggie Pie

Just received this from Prof Anne-Marie Brady …

“Thank you to the MPs in parliament today who acknowledged my contribution in raising the issue of CCP political interference.
YOU CANNOT IMAGINE THE COST TO MY FAMILY IN DOING SO.”

https://twitter.com/Anne_MarieBrady/status/1202010148698349568
10 2
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December 4, 2019 1:09pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Nice of them to acknowledge it; pity they haven’t cone anything about it.
  
  3 3
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  December 4, 2019 2:07pm
  - Tall Man
    
    She’s an idiot, you’re right behind her.
    
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    December 4, 2019 9:21pm
chaos

Poor Winston should look in the mirror

* National MP Tim Macindoe accused New Zealand First of “utter hypocrisy” and described the party as “utterly disingenuous” for not supporting National MP Nick Smith’s proposed amendment.

Macindoe referred to comments Duncan Garner Garner made on The AM Show, questioning the need to rush the legislation through Parliament, saying “I smell a rat”.

“Clearly the rat is sitting on that side of the House at the moment,” Macindoe said, pointing to Peters. “Because what Mr Garner was talking about was the New Zealand First Foundation.”

Peters fired back saying, “I won’t have a dysfunctional geriatric call me a rat”. *

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/12/chaos-in-the-house-winston-peters-blasts-dysfunctional-geriatric-mp-who-labelled-him-a-rat.html
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December 4, 2019 1:31pm
- Batman
  
  As a child might say, it takes one to know one, Mr Peters.
  
  7 1
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  December 4, 2019 2:06pm
  - Tall Man
    
    To be fair, was he awake when you made that value judgement……..
    
    0 0
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    December 4, 2019 9:17pm
- Tall Man
  
  “Look” requires focus and being alert…….
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/lloyd-burr-is-winston-peters-asleep-at-the-wheel.html
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 9:20pm
All_on_Red

Burn of the day
@realDonaldTrump
“Too bad. We will miss you Kamala”

She replied
@KamalaHarris
“Don’t worry Mr President. I will see you at your Trial”

Ouch!
7 3
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December 4, 2019 2:57pm
- Inandout
  
  Well the exFBI ones come first, then maybe next year’s trial will be the Pres election.
  
  3 0
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  December 4, 2019 5:00pm
  - virtualmark
    
    I think you’re going to be very disappointed by Horowitz’s report.
    
    2 1
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    December 4, 2019 5:37pm
cmm

Fucking lying Herald at it again, shilling PriNZess and being bold etc when she clearly is not:

Bold Red Scrolling Banner: “Outraged PM Ardern demands answers after Samoan toddler…”
Headline: “Ardern demands answers over outrageous…”

Sounds like she’s mad, kicking butts and taking names as the USAian cuzzies say.

But in reality she’s being a lot more meek and mild.

“I heard this last night and I thought it was outrageous, given this current situation – I am minded to ask questions there,” Ardern said.

Thinking something is outrageous is not the same as being outraged.

“minded to ask questions there” is hardly “demanding answers”.

Herald: not fit for the cat to shit on!
24 1
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December 4, 2019 3:01pm
- Tall Man
  
  As a cat lover, I’m outraged by that.
  
  Why do you think you have the right to deny “pussy” the thrill of dumping on a fourth rate rag. Cheaper than “kitty litter”…. 🙂
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 9:15pm
Nookin

It must be galling to know that you have sunk so low that even Trump disavows any knowledge of you!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/117918786/trump-on-prince-andrews-tough-story-and-brexit-meddling
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December 4, 2019 3:11pm
- chaos
  
  I read that and thought to myself how many photos to people like trump and other celebrities pose for. Doesn’t mean they know the person. Ardern was shown around the palace by someone, does that mean she is now good friends with them and know them. Bizarre.
  
  9 2
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  December 4, 2019 4:17pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Now you just stop that with those sensible comments
    //
    
    2 0
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    December 4, 2019 6:15pm
  - Tall Man
    
    She’s nearly as smart as a corgi…… Nearly.
    
    0 0
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    December 4, 2019 9:10pm
srylands

OK it was poor taste but an apology should suffice. Mobs baying for blood is an over reaction. How about you scream outrage at the anti vaxxers who are actually responsible for the Samoan disaster. Cartoons dont kill. They merely offend and we don’t have some right to walk around not being offended. Oh and note they are not just appalled but EXTREMELY appalled. FFS.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117920163/samoa-cartoon-labelled-extremely-appalling-by-race-relations-commissioner
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December 4, 2019 3:30pm
- chaos
  
  No the antivaxxers are not to blame for what has happened in Samoa. Not sure why some of you want to push that. What is responsible is that a few years ago two nurses mixed up vaccinations that caused the death of two children. That lead to the government suspending vaccines and investigating and the people were too scared to vaccinate their children because of those deaths.
  
  5 4
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  December 4, 2019 4:14pm
  - stinkypete
    
    anti vaxxers have caused loss of herd immunity which leads to outbreaks
    now the mumsy facebook fanatics and their pseudoscience have contributed to the deaths of nearly 60 children
    
    11 0
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    December 4, 2019 5:11pm
  - Tall Man
    
    2 deaths due to a nursing fuckup, 60, so far, due to non vaccination.
    
    You do the math.
    
    0 0
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    December 4, 2019 9:11pm
alex Masterley

Typical Herald miss-reporting that.
HAving said that there is an interesting piece in the business section about a company called Claymark Group going into receivership. The receivership is said to be caused by a company called NZ Future Forest Products failing to complete a take over of the business. As I recall that company made an abortive application for funding from the future growth fund.
Interesting.
14 0
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December 4, 2019 3:39pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  And we all know who the Directors of that company are, don’t we.??
  
  7 0
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  December 4, 2019 5:36pm
- Tall Man
  
  Might be a tad cheaper now……..
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 9:08pm
chaos

Winston doing what he does best, lying and deflecting from his crimes.

* Peters, protected from defamation because of Parliamentary privilege, accused National of having $100 million worth of donations that the party had never declared.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12290855
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December 4, 2019 4:27pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston will be a gonna next year.
  The flames are piling up.
  ☑️☑️
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 7:51pm
- Tall Man
  
  FFS, he’s only got 10 fingers and 11 toes, he couldn’t count that high…..
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 9:06pm
- Prince
  
  But of course he will pretend to go into the next election prepared to bargain with National.
  He really is lower than the lowest.
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 9:25pm
MrTips

Winston and “Jessica” Yaniv have a lot in common. Both pretend to be something they’re not……

clean, that is.
7 1
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December 4, 2019 5:31pm
- Tall Man
  
  Alive I think.
  
  “what’s in it for wynston” is a walking corpse.
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 9:05pm
Jack5

The Guardian, in both its international net edition and in its surreptitious New Zealand edition, says climate change will steer all New Zealand Government decisions from now on.

The report below this headline quotes Climate Change Minister Shaw saying A climate change “lens” will now be applied to all major decisions made by the government.

The newspaper says Shaw spoke ” as floods and bushfires wreck havoc around the country in the first week of summer.”

I used the term “surreptitious New Zealand edition” because the newspaper does not tell readers from this country via internet that they are reading a New Zealand edition. However, if they access the Guardian by VPN, which disguises the country of origin, they will see far less New Zealand content.

The Guardian “New Zealand edition”:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/04/climate-change-to-steer-all-new-zealand-government-decisions-from-now-on
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December 4, 2019 5:42pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Thanks for the warning. I will put my cloaker on.
  
  0 0
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  December 4, 2019 7:48pm
Maggie Pie

GOD SPARE ME!
Just listening to Ryan Bridge on Magic discussing the plastic bag ban in supermarkets with a couple of virtue-signaling lefties!!
Some guy who goes by the name of ‘Bruce’ [wot else 😛 ] and calls himself hes ‘an actor’, reckons “….whenever he goes to the beach for a swim, spends at least 20 minutes picking up other peoples rubbish behore he heads home”.
HONESTLY, who the f~~k does that? Wot a twat!!
10 3
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December 4, 2019 6:02pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You don’t like people who pick up rubbish? What is wrong with you?
  
  0 1
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  December 4, 2019 8:06pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117933089/former-nz-first-officials-keen-to-talk-to-select-committee-inquiry-on-foundation

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to finally witness the corrupt Peters getting what he deserves!
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December 4, 2019 6:42pm
Jack5

Big new mine opened in West Australia, where there is a gold boom:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-04/gruyere-biggest-goldmine-officially-opens/11763156
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December 4, 2019 7:02pm

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