General Debate 1 December 2019

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Greg Ettridge

Narwhal Tusk
The new forced weapon of choice for British public.
Upside Is it worked a treat.
Downside “How dare they” use a limited resource like this to stop a despot flaying half of London Bridge. Extinction Rebellion will be pissed off.
The other question that crossed my mine was this:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/feb/09/terror-group-london-stock-exchange-jailed

Where are the other 8 members of the cell that went down with him in 2012?
David Garrett is right on the money, once you have these murderous despots in your community, you cannot control them. NZ will be no different to UK just behind in time frame. The warning signs Have been there for decades, all ignored.
Even other murderers think he should die.
The Narwhal tusk and a convicted murderer assisting in his demise, you couldn’t make this story up.
Do we get to hear his thoughts at the conference?
So many questions which will never be answered.
But eh, beautiful harmonious blended multi cultural country!
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December 1, 2019 8:00am
- The King
  
  Giving these sub-humans second chances is a crime against humanity, guess who doesn’t get a second chance, the 2 dead actual citizens.
  
  We don’t need democracy, we need Vlad the impaler.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:24am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sub-humans….
    an interesting term to be employing in this day and age.
    
    Seems my in-laws were once sub-humans..classified as Untermensch.
    
    Perhaps you could provide us with a current classification scheme of sub-humans.. and how to recognise them.
    
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    December 1, 2019 10:43am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Critically examining how people actually behave is an excellent way of categorising people. But people get really upset when behaviour is examined, rather than judging people on some immutable characteristic that has no bearing on assessing someone’s worth. Behaviour is obscured by the deployment of distractions from that behaviour, using terms like ‘Islamophobia’ ‘anti-Semitism’ and other phrases designed to shut people up.
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:15am
  - Overworked
    
    The two dead citizens were in effect sacrifices to the belief that there is no such thing as a murderous ideologue who can’t be reformed through the power of reason and hugs.
    
    The question is, how much innocent blood has to be caked onto the altar before the stench reaches even to the heights of the judiciary and political classes?
    
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    December 1, 2019 2:27pm
- Scott
  
  Greg – quite right, a perfect storm of naive liberal governance.
  The man, Isman Khan is a Muslim killer, one of thousands of potential jihadists living in Britain.
  
  He should never have been let out of prison according to the sentencing judge. But he was let out.
  
  He attended a conference about Learning together, run by a university. He attended that conference armed with knives and wearing a fake suicide vest.
  
  He showed his gratitude for the second chance he’d been given by stabbing and killing the course coordinator, a thoroughly decent young man with a heart for people. He also killed another course member, a young woman with the mental age of a 15 year old. They’d done nothing to him, he just killed them.
  
  We need to understand that people are not basically good. That there are people who choose evil and the justice system should protect the citizens of the country by locking away evil doers.
  We also need to understand that Islam is a real problem and doesn’t adapt well to the west. The authorities need to take strong measures because this terrorism is now becoming commonplace.
  
  (check Daily Mail for further facts on this horrendous case)
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:24am
  - The King
    
    The judge who let the terrorist out was… wait for it…
    
    Jewish. Oh the irony, just like when they opened the gates for the moor muslims in Spain a thousand years ago.
    
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    December 1, 2019 8:42am
  - Tall Man
    
    “We need to understand that people are not basically good”
    
    I can’t disagree more with you.
    
    Most people are good and decent. There are some that are not and they gravitate to those interests that benefit their innate nastiness. It would seem that islam does provide that evil basis for those that want to follow that path but it is not alone in that regard.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omkBpJ5ZCHY
    
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    December 1, 2019 8:48am
    - jcuk
      
      One should organise your life on the assumption that there are bad people around wanting to do you harm….
      That is why I keep my house locked except when I am expecting somebody.
      Not that I really think any baddies will want to do me harm or damage my house etc
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:34am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Well said, excellent summation.
    I drove double deckers London Kathmandu in the seventies, going the other way was a continual conga line of Morris Minors packed tight with migrants fleeing Pakistan for a better life in the UK.
    Now I look back and think they have really in effect changed the UK in parts to a mini Pakistan.
    I might hurt peoples feelings, but the truth does hurt at times.
    I am not against immigration my great great parents were, but they assimilated and helped build a better society. I abhor senseless killing of innocents.
    Stopping this it seems the only solution is to be restricting certain people.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:12am
    - yossarian
      
      I was at a dinner last weekend, and out of the nine around the table I was the only one born in New Zealand, the rest were all recent immigrants.
      
      One asked “how do you feel about being the only kiwi here, and what do think about all these immigrants coming to New Zealand!”
      
      I had to be careful, my wife was one of them around the table. I said “my thoughts are this, most immigrants come to make a better life and I welcome them, I also love the different cultures and it makes the New Zealand are more interesting place. All I ask is people bring to New Zealand the best of their cultures but leave the worse of their cultures behind”
      
      The entire table erupted into cheers and I even had men kissing me! “And that’s why we left, to leave the shit part of our country behind!”
      
      Btw they were all South American
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:57am
  - 3-coil
    
    Scott: we must all be careful too not to confuse this latest terrorist Khan the Muslim killer, and Khan the Muslim mayor of London – don’t want any confusion there. Will be an easy mistake to make with the same name – btw how closely are they related?
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:23am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      They share a common ancestor – Genghis Khan.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:25am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      There are estimated to be 24 million people with the surname Khan.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_(surname)
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:33am
      - Nermal
        
        khan ~noun
        (in the Altaic group of languages) a title held by hereditary rulers or tribal chiefs.
        
        Is that a case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians?
        
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        December 1, 2019 12:33pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Peter Hitchens sums the mass immigration situation up well, re: the UK: “We are in the foothills of a catastrophe.”
    
    We have had less exposure to Islamisation than they and the rest of Europe have had, but the objective signs are there that the result will be the same eventually, if one is awake to these signs. Enclaves of non-integrating, often hostile foreigners, with no intention of integrating. This is multiculturalism, by definition. They won’t be ‘New Zealanders’ – they will be foreign nationals, with existing tribal and foreign allegiances, who just happen to be domiciled in NZ.
    
    In general, they offer no real benefit to the country, just a general burden. The winners are companies who get to artificially keep wages down through over supply of labour; house owners and rentiers who keep the price of their investments and/or rental income artificially up; and the liberal lovies who get to feel good about helping brown people. Everyone else loses, big time. You cannot say these things, however, for one very obvious reason: they are true.
    
    There seems to be no compelling argument for this ongoing policy: just keep bringing them in. No goal has been stated. No case has been made. No mandate has been sought from the electorate (because, we would not give one). This is what Globalisation brings.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:30am
    - backster
      
      But hasn’t Winston signed away our sovereignty by allowing the United Nations decide who migrates here.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:44am
    - igm
      
      If Ardern and her ilk get another term we will have the same here . . . in fact, looking at the Manus Island types, it will get worse.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:48am
    - Nickc2
      
      You are correct Ghandi but don’t let anyone forget who signed us up for this global immigratation crap: none other than Winston Peters!
      Forget what he said about it being non-binding, it is binding. Frau Merkel said so!
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:50am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Of course we will be bound. I’ve never signed a non-binding agreement in my life.
        
        Bridges needs to re-instate his ‘pull-out’ policy vis a vis the UN Migration Pact, notwithstanding he will be called a racist, far-right extremist etc. That alone would get my vote.
        
        I think the main problem is that, there are very few if any functionally-sovereign nations in the West these days. They do what they are told.
        
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        December 1, 2019 1:19pm
    - mark15
      
      If all Immigration is good,how do we know when it stops being good?
      Or is it too late by then…?
      
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      December 1, 2019 1:30pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, according to the Guardian article,
    
    Khan was part of a gang of nine extremists from Stoke-on-Trent, Cardiff and London who were sentenced in February 2012 at Woolwich crown court. He had planned to establish a “terrorist military training facility” on land owned by his family in Kashmir, according to sentencing remarks.
    
    Khan, at 19, was the youngest of the group. In his sentencing remarks Mr Justice Wilkie said Khan and two others were “more serious jihadis” than the others.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/30/usman-khan-profile-terrorist-who-wanted-to-bomb-london-stock-exchange
    
    I see that the media has been reluctant to use the ‘M’-word. NewstalkZB reported this morning that authorities are calling him a “lone wolf” *sigh* ?
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:38am
    - Inandout
      
      Fletch, you are quoting The Guardian, which is Corbyn in reality. Corbyn dislikes Jews, cuddles Muslims and would have the UK involved in years of chaos if he became PM. When I see such programmes as Antique Roadshow I wonder if this slice of traditional UK life is really a minority. Maybe the stoic British face is real and they will rise up against the evil they face.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:43am
      - Fletch
        
        So you are saying that the reported quote from the judge is incorrect?
        
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        December 1, 2019 4:25pm
- Paginus
  
  There is no reason for people of different genetics, religions, and cultures to live together in a single society or state. None whatsoever.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:37am
  - The King
    
    Humanity is a species with different distinct races. Each race has its own mental and physical attributes.
    
    Our environment is the result of our biological nature, when Blacks immigrate to a White country they still behave like Blacks even several generations later, when Whites immigrate to a Black country they still behave like Whites IE: South Africa.
    
    It’s a beautiful feel good sentiment you have but unfortunately history and reality aren’t on your side.
    
    People from different races have no interest in integrating even if they wanted to they couldn’t.
    
    The Japanese aren’t going to blend in with other people.
    The Chinese aren’t going to blend in with other people.
    The Jews aren’t going to blend in with other people.
    The Indians aren’t going to blend in with other people.
    
    Mexicans in America don’t stick together because they are “immigrants” they stick together because they are Mexicans.
    
    Do you get it?
    
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    December 1, 2019 10:15am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      As a species, populations of humans have blended with each other at every opportunity..
      https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:25am
      - Rob2
        
        Even here in NZ. Early Maori ladies liked the white man. “Pakeha Slaves, Maori Masters,” by Trevor bently.
        A good read about that.
        
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        December 1, 2019 12:03pm
      - Paginus
        
        Maori and British settlers have been breeding for 150 years and yet they’re still two very distinct cultures, with very different values and customs.
        It’s only because Maori are 10% and not 50% of the population that there is peace.
        Ask any Maori, they want their land back.
        
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        December 1, 2019 1:48pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      King
      The trouble for some people who disagree with you is this: they are selling a product called “egalitarianism/equality.” However, if genetic facts are allowed, then their product becomes worthless. No matter how much they try to reorganize society, redistribute, even-out ‘disadvantages’ and promote equality (all by the use of State force), they will fail. The biological facts will thwart all efforts at radical egalitarianism. Therefore, they must deny biology.
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:26am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Humanity is a species with different distinct races
      
      How many distinct races are there?
      
      List them.
      
      What are their distinct mental and physical attributes?
      
      What race are my children?
      
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      December 1, 2019 12:08pm
      - Komata
        
        Maggy@1208
        
        As a scientist you already know the answers M’am. However, herewith an ‘Official’ list of the ‘ Distinct races’ as requested.
        
        No doubt someone-else can locate concise , non-stereotypical, culturally-neutral descriptions of the various mental and physical attributes of such groups..
        
        In respect of the race of your children; having never met you, your husband, or the children themselves, I cannot, of course, comment.
        
        ‘Definitions for Racial and Ethnic Categories
        The Revisions to OMB Directive 15 defines each racial and ethnic category as follows:
        
        American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
        Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
        Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as “Haitian” or “Negro” can be used in addition to “Black or African American.”
        Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, “Spanish origin,” can be used in addition to “Hispanic or Latino.”
        Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
        White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.’ (1)
        
        ___________________
        (1) Lisa Evans, ‘Racial and Ethnic Categories and Definitions for NIH Diversity Programs and for Other Reporting Purposes’, ([n.pl.], National Institutes of Health, 2015), [n.p.n].
        
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        December 1, 2019 4:07pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      The King,
      “The Japanese aren’t going to blend in with other people.”
      
      Yes they are. Once they leave Japan and live overseas, they are no longer considered to have their “Yamato damashi.” This is why Japanese blend in very well overseas and tend not to form enclaves.
      
      How many Japanese newspapers and radio stations do we have in Auckland again?
      
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      December 1, 2019 6:11pm
      - The King
        
        I’m not talking about immigration Japanese i’m talking their homeland.
        
        Send 2 million blacks,Whites,Arabs to Japan and tell the Japanese if they don’t integrate with their new arrivals they are racist.
        
        It wouldn’t happen, you’d get 10,000 Otoya Yamaguchi’s aka Brenton Tarrants overnight.
        
        Japanese will never accept your multikulti Utopia.
        
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        December 1, 2019 11:09pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    “There is no reason for people of different genetics, religions, and cultures to live together in a single society or state”
    The crusades was a quick fix, all over in just 6 centuries.
    They still close the gates in Ireland between the protestants and Catholics.
    Egyptians have a quick fix for the Coptics, burn them out.
    Adolf had a great remedy for the Jews, the gas chambers.
    Mugabe got rid of the white farmers and killed the bread basket of Africa, now South Africa down same path.
    Good luck with that statement, my years of extensive travel have shown this to be a really silly and naieve statement.
    I wish it was true but is just pure fantasy.
    
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    December 1, 2019 8:01pm
  - Ian Hawthorn
    
    If they were all born there? That seems like a pretty good reason to me.
    
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    December 2, 2019 10:56pm
- HemiT
  
  More rhetoric
  
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  December 1, 2019 4:48pm
- pb
  
  Epic. Pole with a pole. Why do the Hussars end up carrying the can.
  
  Cowardice disguised as multiculturalism. Here it comes, like a broken sewerage pipe.
  
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  December 1, 2019 6:11pm
Captain Mainwaring

So Labour are going to spend up large on infrastructure projects, thanks to the economic conditions National left them with.
As long as they revive the four-laning of the highways planned by National and leave JAG out of any decisions about transport, I’d be OK with that.
Slow trams clogging up the cities, not so much.
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December 1, 2019 8:01am
- sooty
  
  No Robbo only had an anouncement to say there will be an anouncement of the anouncement which will be in the budget, I’m picking!
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:30am
  - sooty
    
    All he said is that they will be HUGE!
    Does not know what they are yet!
    Still has to pick the numbers out of his arse!
    
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    December 1, 2019 8:56am
    - freethinker
      
      Sooty – Robbo is probably searching those dark crevices in that cavernous space for something marginal useful & relevant, a GPS would be handy perhaps Alf can help with the co-ordinates.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:21am
    - Sacha
      
      He said that the govt will take advantage of the cheap money available and BORROW large amounts while interest rates are so favourable. If he’s contemplating getting a loan from China, I hope he considers the plight of those countries in Africa, who borrowed from China, and have defaulted on their loans.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:53am
    - Paulus
      
      And to answer – Where is the Money ?
      There is no Surplus – only creative accounting as the next National government will find out – Again – remember Cullen did that before.
      
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      December 1, 2019 1:21pm
- pdm
  
  Best to leave Twyford out of any decision making too unless you want a complete stuff up.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:43am
  - John Warren
    
    Twyford is incapable of deciding what socks to wear, let alone major policy direction. He’s the biggest idiot I’ve ever seen hold senior portfolios, an arrogant fool of the grandest proportions.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:06am
    - RightFirstTime
      
      On the subject of fashion accessories you would also have to question Twyford’s taste when it comes to neck ties, given those he wears during the sessions of Parliament. As for Robbo’s big infrastructure spend up don’t expect anything much. As per the CoL’s record to date it is going to be aspirational rather than quantifiable.
      
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      December 1, 2019 10:27am
  - freethinker
    
    Just imagine the results if the Trifecta of Twitford,JAG and Sleeze Gallopaway had major input into the budget, makes Nightmare on Elm Street seem tame.
    
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    December 1, 2019 10:23am
- Yvette
  
  It’s school building and refurbishment.
  Constructing roads is still “kicked down the road”, so to speak, as with everything else this Government doesn’t deliver.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:27am
  - sooty
    
    Along with a hospital or two and something for the maoris.
    
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    December 1, 2019 12:20pm
- kevn
  
  @Captn… Like the 4 lane expressways and already approved/setup road upgrades in National MP zones. They were the first to be canned by labour.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:40am
  - sooty
    
    That holiday highway to the new port!
    
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    December 1, 2019 12:21pm
G152

Why is there this deadly outbreak of measles in the Islands ???
The vaccines have been available for the same length of time as here in NZ….
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December 1, 2019 8:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Samoa is a sovereign state and make their own choices. They have far flung families too– NZ , Hawaii, Aus, USA. It’s also a popular tourist resort.
  NZ cannot be blamed if a virus turns up there.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Let me research that for you:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_hesitancy#Samoa,_measles_(2019)
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:24am
  - Simon
    
    “Let me research that for you:”
    
    Thats the starting point. How can social media cripple Samoa’s vaccination system so quickly?
    
    Was there a budget crisis or did someone in Samoa’s health service pocket the money?
    
    Labour closed down Northland meningitis immunization system to save money. People died.
    
    Social media to get a government to close their immunization system there is a bigger story.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:05am
    - Sacha
      
      Samoan society is relatively unsophisticated when it comes to advanced medical treatment. Plus, epidemics of infectious diseases have been rare in recent times, so there is no real awareness of the dangers for several generations.
      Our government is not helpful. It should insist on children having a vaccination record before they can attend child care centres/kindergarten/school. If the parents objected to their child being vaccinated, or the child had a medical condition which prevented vaccination, this could be noted on the certificate. According to media reports, some of the people who contracted measles here in NZ did not know whether they had been vaccinated or not.
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:05am
- jcuk
  
  “Why is there this deadly outbreak of measles in the Islands ???”
  Simple answer is because [ I will not say as it is not polite]
  
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  December 1, 2019 11:50am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Less well developed genetic resistance to introduced diseases in predominantly polynesian gene pools of islands
    
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    December 1, 2019 2:54pm
Happychappy

I think it’s wrong for people to make death threats against the Prime Minister but I also thi k it is wrong leading up to a Election and at your Party’s Conference to try and make political gain from it. When did you ever hear John Key do a interview on Death Threats or the ones against his family, ok there were articles about it but to my recollection never a interview on it.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/death-threats-a-sad-fact-of-life-as-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern.html
Jancidais ob worried about the next election so needs to get more on her side hence this interview as she needs the attention and the sympathy to gather more votes.
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December 1, 2019 8:11am
- sooty
  
  She’s got the worry beads out allready!
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:26am
- John Warren
  
  So Cindy’s trying to attract the sympathy vote in an attempt to counterbalance her deficiencies.
  
  Toughen up, sweetie. You’re in the Big Seat, with all that entails. Time to take a concrete pill and actually lead from the front.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:27am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Death threats against elected officials are absolutely unacceptable, however much we may dislike them or their politics.
  
  For this reason alone, Jacinda Ardern should seriously consider both publicly and privately distancing herself from Tom Scott, who in 2014 wrote and performed these lyrics:
  
  That’s why I’m going to kill the Prime Minister. I’m going to kill the Prime Minister, because we are down and suffering and the motherfucker ain’t doing nothing. Going to kill the Prime Minister.
  
  One of these days I’m going to fuck your daughter. This poor boy going to make his seed, going to wake up in your girl – well hello Miss Key.
  
  Ms Ardern can’t claim the sympathy vote for death threats against her when she exchanges private messages with someone, who in 2014 said quite explicitly and in a manner than can’t be misinterpreted, “I’m going to kill the Prime Minister”.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:33am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I am still absolutely aghast that Tom Scott was not prosecuted for this threat to kill.
    
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    December 1, 2019 8:45am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Of course you are.
      
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      December 1, 2019 9:44am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        True. I was equally aghast that the Sex Pistols were never prosecuted for their treasonous version of God Save the Queen.
        Or Eminem for As the world Turns, of Tyler the Creator for She, etc, etc, etc.
        
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        December 1, 2019 10:54am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Hear hear!
    Cinders certainly has some dodgy friends, and we know who some of the others are.
    
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    December 1, 2019 8:55am
    - sooty
      
      How many people have Cindys phone number,other than the crank and the lawnmoer man?
      
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      December 1, 2019 8:59am
  - Simon
    
    “For this reason alone, Jacinda Ardern should seriously consider both publicly and privately distancing herself from Tom Scott,”
    
    Geez have you not worked out that Ardern is a piece of shit just like her buddy Scott?
    
    Ardern has more in common with Scott than any normal people that dont go around threatening to kill & rape others.
    
    It would be staggering to see Ardern genuinely distancing herself from Scott.
    
    “Death threats against elected officials are absolutely unacceptable”
    
    Death threats against anyone is illegal and anyone making them should appear in a court.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:40am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The right wing has a higher propensity for resorting to violence as an expression of grievance.
  
  This is why Jacinda Ardern is in greater danger than John Key.
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:51am
  - herb1
    
    Clearly the 150 million plus who died under the auspices of the Chinese and Soviet communists and the National Socialists parties , should be greatful Martin , not to have been murdered by those nasty righties
    
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    December 1, 2019 1:04pm
  - Lee C
    
    .
    
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    December 1, 2019 1:46pm
    - sooty
      
      But she has a bunch of people with big range of guns to protect her.
      Pistols, rifles, shotguns machineguns, in semiauto and machineguns!
      She’s whining, looking for votes!
      
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      December 1, 2019 5:38pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    My God Martin, what a lot of shit you talk.
    Were you dropped on your head as a baby?
    
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    December 1, 2019 7:44pm
mikenmildagain

Today we’re celebrating sixty years since the signing of the Antarctic Treaty, setting Antarctica aside as a scientific reserve open to all nations and free of military activities.
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December 1, 2019 8:12am
- SGA
  
  Not to mention, it is Saint Day for Saint Eligius.
  Saint Eligius (11 June 588 – 1 December 660 AD) is the patron saint of goldsmiths, other metalworkers, and coin collectors. He is also the patron saint of veterinarians, the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME), a corps of the British Army, but he is best known for being the patron saint of horses and those who work with them.
  There is a legend that St Eligius resolved the problem of a horse reluctant to be shod. He thought it was possessed by demons, so he cut off the horse’s foreleg and, while the horse stood on the remaining three legs and watched, he re-shod the hoof on the amputated leg, before miraculously re-attaching the leg to the horse.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:40am
  - nasska
    
    Ever since mobile phones with cameras became commonplace we don’t see anything like the number of miracles that used to be reported.
    
    I wonder if there’s a connection.
    
    29 2
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    December 1, 2019 9:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Seems like there are any number of politicians who can miraculously turn bullshit into truth for their disciples.
      
      14 5
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      December 1, 2019 10:28am
      - sooty
        
        Yer and they are all in Wanganui, this weekend!
        
        16 0
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        December 1, 2019 12:24pm
    - Nermal
      
      nasska: Or UFO’s
      
      3 0
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      December 1, 2019 12:37pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    mikenmildagain,
    
    One “… Day” at a time, please.
    
    6 2
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    December 1, 2019 10:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I forgot to mention that it is also World AIDS Day.
      
      1 4
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      December 1, 2019 10:56am
      - mark15
        
        Awareness or avoidance?
        I know which I prefer
        
        3 0
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        December 1, 2019 1:39pm
- Paginus
  
  I’ve always found it strange that during height of the cold war, USA and the Soviet Union signed a treaty to give up territory to help save penguins.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The Antarctic Treaty is a shining example of peaceful international cooperation and resolution of disputes.
    
    3 3
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    December 1, 2019 10:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  free of military activities.
  
  You reckon?
  
  https://theconversation.com/australia-wants-to-install-military-technology-in-antarctica-heres-why-thats-allowed-122122
  
  https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/07/30/more-us-military-power-needed-antarctic-deter-malign-activity-general-says.html
  
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  December 1, 2019 2:27pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Neither of those articles point to any breach of the Antarctic Treaty.
    
    1 5
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    December 1, 2019 2:40pm
Scooter

Just saw the media interview with the new Labour Party President Claire Szarbo, totally unprepared to answer questions and seemed like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Apparently JA had debriefed her prior.
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December 1, 2019 8:18am
- mikenmildagain
  
  You brief someone before an event, and debrief after.
  
  16 17
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  December 1, 2019 8:46am
  - sooty
    
    No, he said that Cindy had shit in her nest and stuffed up her speech.
    
    13 0
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    December 1, 2019 9:00am
  - Tall Man
    
    Whereas you never let a chance to be a smartarse pass you by, before or after…………
    
    15 7
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    December 1, 2019 9:06am
  - gravedodger
    
    I thought Scooter had it right , how in gods name could a Part Time Prime Minister with the intellectual grunt of the appointed one, brief anyone?
    Five minutes with JA and anything of value would be vacuumed up for later disposal.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:28am
  - kevn
    
    @mma… maybe JA got the sequence wrong hence the stunned mullet effect by Szarbo.
    
    14 0
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    December 1, 2019 9:43am
  - Scooter
    
    Yes my mistake, but I think her debrief will be as bad as her brief.
    
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    December 1, 2019 9:57am
  - Peter S
    
    Not when it refers to figuatively getting caught with your pants down.
    
    13 0
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    December 1, 2019 9:58am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Briefless?
      
      9 3
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      December 1, 2019 10:57am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Not in Labour circles. They tend to begin by performing a debrief, and then questions may or may not be asked later on.
    
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    December 1, 2019 10:27am
  - krazykiwi
    
    You brief someone before an event, and debrief after
    
    When it comes to a Labour, one is likely to be debriefed when one least expects it.
    
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    December 1, 2019 7:58pm
- JibberJabber
  
  I suspect poor Clair just had a “becareful what you wish for” moment, who in their right mind would want that poisoned chalice?
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:43am
  - sooty
    
    What does it pay and what are the job prospects afterwards?
    
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    December 1, 2019 12:28pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Debrief is a co-incidental bad choice of words when it comes to Labour.
  
  The country is still awaiting on the outcome of the investigation in the multitude of “debriefings” by the unnamed groper/rapist in the PM’s office.
  
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  December 1, 2019 12:09pm
- herb1
  
  Debriefed has a different meaning in terms of Labour. It’s a right of conquest given to senior Labour operatives or those with high connections
  
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  December 1, 2019 1:06pm
- Paulus
  
  Had we realised that she was CEO for the very worthy cause of Habitat for Humanity and at the same time a leading Labour Party person we may not have donated to Habitat in the way we did.
  
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  December 1, 2019 1:26pm
Brian McDonald

Something positive instead of all the general moaning on KB.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/new-zealand-develops-worlds-first-low-methane-sheep/ar-BBXxEcp?ocid=spartandhp
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December 1, 2019 8:34am
oldpark

Latest News from London regarding the terrorist knife Murder of a Care Giver. Yes he was a Cambridge Graduate. He was only there because he believed he could make a difference,helping to Rehabilitate convicted terrorists. Go figure that one.
How did that work out . Or how will it ever work out. That includes certain bleeding hearts in NZ who are hell bent on “hugging thugs”.Nuff said.
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December 1, 2019 8:34am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I can almost feel a “Confucius He Say…” joke forming in my mind.
  
  Something about bleeding hearts wanting to help rehabilitate knife-wielding convicted terrorists. The joke would play on the words “bleeding,” “knife,” “terrorist,” and “rehabilitation.”
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:08am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Confucius he say:
    
    “Man who start to rehab terrorist with knife, always finish with bleeding heart.”
    
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    December 1, 2019 10:45am
  - IC5000
    
    One of those who confronted the terrorist was convicted of murdering a 21 yo mentally disabled women who was a random victim.
    
    Was he rehabilitated?
    
    He participated in a similar act as the terrorist did.
    
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    December 1, 2019 2:40pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And now the politicians are trying to pass the buck:
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/30/labour-and-tories-row-over-early-release-of-london-bridge-attacker
  
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  December 1, 2019 11:30am
  - IC5000
    
    Apparently he made multiple requests for deradicalisation treatment but was ignored.
    
    Let’s hope a full public inquiry reveals why authorities failed to protect the public.
    
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    December 1, 2019 11:13pm
curry4me

Boris Johnson takes Channel 4 to the regulators.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAI2dGtvR00
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December 1, 2019 8:39am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Angry that they called out his cowardice?
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:29am
curry4me

What’s Mandarin for Arbeit Macht Frei?
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/11/28/volkswagen-tied-to-concentration-camp-region-of-china/
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December 1, 2019 8:39am
- The King
  
  Yeah just let Muslims run rampant in your country see how that works out for you…
  
  The Chinese are smart people can you tell?
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:26am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Concentration camp enthusiast.
    
    1 18
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    December 1, 2019 10:58am
    - IC5000
      
      That poster is a monster.
      
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      December 1, 2019 11:15pm
Yvette

Around 41,000 guns and 150,000 parts have been handed in so far, costing taxpayers $78 million. It’s not known exactly how many are still out there. – Newshub

It appears the lowest number of guns recently made illegal may be 56,000, but the highest estimate is 240,000
As of November 24, the total collected was 40,731

However of that 40,731 there are 2,539 that are not prohibited weapons
So thus far the buy back may have removed 68.2% of illegal weapons or perhaps only 16% of them.

Nor does there seem to be any statistics of people who received payment and used it to purchase new legal weapons, as many comments on talkback radio over past months anecdotally suggest.

But Labour does that – tells you how many new police there are, but not how many retired, resigned or otherwise attrited. Not Winston’s “net police numbers”.

And, despite the last two overseas terror incidents being extremists bringing knives to gunfights (but still fatal), the number of new firearms this Government has prompted people to buy, and provided many with the means to do it, and pissed off those that are still hanging on to theirs, does not appear to be delivering a country that feels very much safer.
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December 1, 2019 8:44am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I had to laugh at the photo on the Stuff website picturing a guy with a sign that said “I lost my guns in a voting accident”.
  
  In January I gave my licensed neighbor a partially working 22 automatic rifle that later became illegal to own. He handed it in to the police and was paid a ridiculous $750. He was so embarrassed that he offered me the money. We agreed to a nice dinner out for both our families and he keep the rest. He used the remaining money to buy a better “legal” 22 rifle.
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:14am
- The King
  
  Alot of people did a good vetting of the government and concluded they aren’t mentally fit to own their guns.
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:28am
- JackRabbit
  
  In settler times / establishing the west:
  Sherriff (law enforcement) to the towns people: Outlaws are coming to town, so arm yourselves. Get a gun, learn to shoot, and defend yourselves. If the outlaws threaten you, shoot them. That will stop them cold.
  
  Modern day:
  Police (law enforcement) to the towns people:
  Outlaws (terrorists) are coming to town. Hand in all your guns. That will stop them cold.
  
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  December 1, 2019 12:18pm
Humble Capitalist

Had a good laugh the other evening. Xero adverts on tv one presented by the great business leader Jack Tame giving tips on how to run a business. The first installment was on reducing the ‘gender pay gap’ and the second one on managing staff leave over the holiday season.
Wouldnt Jack have about the same amount of business management experience as your average Labour MP?
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December 1, 2019 8:53am
- Jules99
  
  I’m guessing genuine successful business people don’t need the money.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:10am
- John Warren
  
  I own and run a business. I doubt I’d even employ little Tame Jackie, much less take advice from him on how to run the show. In his defence, he was probably only engaged to read an autocue, and the advice is not his own.
  
  But who the fuck is Xero to lecture us?
  
  I’ve taken care of the gender pay gap, by the way. I don’t employ any women (part-time cleaner excepted).
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:12am
  - Inandout
    
    JW, I understand Tame is close to being engaged to a blond chap.
    
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    December 1, 2019 3:45pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Knowing about a subject and being able to read a script about it, confidently and persuasively, to a camera or into a microphone, are quite different skills; and you definitely need to get them the right way round.
  
  Kenneth Branagh’s done cgi dinosaur documentary voice overs, and nobody’s complained that he doesn’t have any sort of qualification in paleontology.
  
  On the other hand, look at those tv adverts where the business owners do their own talking. They genuinely know their subject, but they come across stilted, awkward and uncomfortable.
  
  Tame doesn’t know the subject, but he can talk fluently and naturally to a camera and he’s using a script written by somebody who does know the subject. The result is better than if Tame wrote the script and the expert read it out to the camera. Specialized division of labour was a great economic leap forward, don’t knock it.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:27am
- JibberJabber
  
  Cindy has been giving him the benefit of her vast commercial acumen.
  
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  December 1, 2019 9:46am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Jack told his listeners yesterday that “…he was running late for a business meeting on Waiheke – so Lime scootered with a backpack on from K’rd to the Ferry Terminal and arrived with a minute to spare”.
  When I told my partner about it he said, ‘Imagine having a ‘business meeting’ with some smelly prick like that” 😀
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:01am
- artemisia
  
  I expect Xero can’t keep up with demand so enlisted Mr Tame to slow it down.
  
  Not that long since Xero shares were about a buck. Now over AUD80 and climbing. I rest my case haha.
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:01am
Happychappy

So we saw another side of Labour and their dreams with the phantasy speach from Kelvin Davis one of the worst Ministers in the Coalition Government but none of the not so good stories like the corruption, or the sex assaults , the Immigration fuck ups ,with the lies about hackings when leaving a calling card for the world to enter, but no it about phantasy and Kelvins dreams of what they want to do.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/404541/whaea-jacinda-and-maui-jones-let-the-light-in-kelvin-davis
If Labour and the Coalition get three years more it will three years to long and will take a decade or more to fix there fucks ups.
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December 1, 2019 8:57am
- Yvette
  
  One of the highlights of the day was a humorous speech by Labour deputy leader Kelvin Davis who told the story of the Coalition in the style of a legend, and which featured National as the taniwha, of “blue darkness v the light” and Shane Jones as someone who fancied himself as Maui.
  
  Indeed Kelvin is clever with his legendary pieces.
  Here are two other favourites.
  
  No mana for Māori [1]
  Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to these disturbing statistics produced under National’s watch.
  
  Criminal Justice Summit: Plenary discussion on over-representation of Māori in the system [2] There are 5000 Sams in our prisons. And they include his children, and his grandchildren.
  
  It is time someone rivalled that self-proclaimed Champion of the Regions, self-ingratiating “orator”, the “Davy Crockett [3] gone to Washington”, backwoodsman-styled politician Shane Jones.
  
  [1] https://www.labour.org.nz/no_mana_for_m_ori
  [2] https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/criminal-justice-summit-plenary-discussion-over-representation-māori-system
  [3] Raised in the woods so’s he knew every tree
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:07am
timmydevo

Intolerance is still alive and well.
Two former professional players declare their intolerance for another (great) player’s intolerance, saying her intolerance is intolerable.

I thought we’d moved on from these stalemates. Clearly, people still don’t get that speaking out against other people only creates a wider platform to entrench these tit-for-tat situations.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/tennis/117846236/tennis-australia-rebukes-margaret-court-for-controversial-views-which-have-hurt-many
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December 1, 2019 9:40am
Paginus

China just announced they would allow rice imports from the U.S. for the first time in their history.

Read that again.

Trump just sold rice to CHINA.

What a f*cking legend

https://mobile.twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1200546982672109568
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December 1, 2019 9:50am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Is China short of rice????
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Is that ‘Trump Rice’? Soon to be as successful as Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump University, Trump Airlines, Trump the Board Game, etc, etc.
  
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  December 1, 2019 11:01am
  - sooty
    
    No, Mr Trump is just a good salesman!
    He cold sell ice to the eskimos
    
    10 2
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    December 1, 2019 12:38pm
- MCos
  
  China has been importing rice from America for years. In fact imports have fallen away considerably.
  Whatever it is, it’s a token amount.
  http://www.worldstopexports.com/chinas-rice-imports-by-country/
  
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  December 1, 2019 2:41pm
Pete George

I think this is a very good article on climate change, in particular warnings about extreme claims of doom and apocalypse that are counter-productive to taking sensible action on climate change – and on more important issues affecting the wellbeing of people and our planet.

Michael Shellenberger (Forbes): Why Apocalyptic Claims About Climate Change Are Wrong

Journalists and activists alike have an obligation to describe environmental problems honestly and accurately, even if they fear doing so will reduce their news value or salience with the public. There is good evidence that the catastrophist framing of climate change is self-defeating because it alienates and polarises many people. And exaggerating climate change risks distracting us from other important issues including ones we might have more near-term control over.

…

First, no credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species.

…

It’s not like climate doesn’t matter. It’s that climate change is outweighed by other factors. Earlier this year, researchers found that climate “has affected organized armed conflict within countries. However, other drivers, such as low socioeconomic development and low capabilities of the state, are judged to be substantially more influential.”

…

Last January, after climate scientists criticized Rep. Ocasio-Cortez for saying the world would end in 12 years, her spokesperson said"We can quibble about the phraseology, whether it's existential or cataclysmic.” He added, “We're seeing lots of [climate change-related] problems that are already impacting lives."

That last part may be true, but it’s also true that economic development has made us less vulnerable, which is why there was a 99.7% decline in the death toll from natural disasters since its peak in 1931.

In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did. And that decline occured over a period when the global population quadrupled.

Capitalism hasn't been all bad, in fact it has done a lot of good.

What about claims of crop failure, famine, and mass death? That’s science fiction, not science. Humans today produce enough food for 10 billion people, or 25% more than we need, and scientific bodies predict increases in that share, not declines.

The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) forecasts crop yields increasing 30% by 2050. And the poorest parts of the world, like sub-Saharan Africa, are expected to see increases of 80 to 90%.

Nobody is suggesting climate change won’t negatively impact crop yields. It could. But such declines should be put in perspective. Wheat yields increased 100 to 300% around the world since the 1960s, while a study of 30 models found that yields would decline by 6% for every one degree Celsius increase in temperature.

Rates of future yield growth depend far more on whether poor nations get access to tractors, irrigation, and fertilizer than on climate change, says FAO.

All of this helps explain why IPCC anticipates climate change will have a modest impact on economic growth. By 2100, IPCC projects the global economy will be 300 to 500% larger than it is today. Both IPCCand the Nobel-winning Yale economist, William Nordhaus, predict that warming of 2.5°C and 4°C would reduce gross domestic product (GDP) by 2% and 5% over that same period.

So the impact of climate change needs to be put into sensible perspective.

I asked the Australian climate scientist Tom Wigley what he thought of the claim that climate change threatens civilization. “It really does bother me because it’s wrong,” he said. “All these young people have been misinformed. And partly it’s Greta Thunberg’s fault. Not deliberately. But she’s wrong.”

…

Wigley started working on climate science full-time in 1975 and created one of the first climate models (MAGICC) in 1987. It remains one of the main climate models in use today.

“When I talk to the general public,” he said, “I point out some of the things that might make projections of warming less and the things that might make them more.

…

“You’ve got to come up with some kind of middle ground where you do reasonable things to mitigate the risk and try at the same time to lift people out of poverty and make them more resilient,” said Emanuel. “We shouldn’t be forced to choose between lifting people out of poverty and doing something for the climate.”

Happily, there is a plenty of middle ground between climate apocalypse and climate denial.

But most arguments over climate change seem to be on the more extreme fringes.

NZ media generally have decided not to give publicity to extreme climate denial. They should be just as sensible about restricting extreme claims that tend towards climate apocalypse.

(Claims made in the article have links to various sources).
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December 1, 2019 10:03am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Very hard to grow or harvest crops during a Mini Ice age.
  
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/07/24/record-cold-cripples-food-crops-future-food-security-at-risk/
  
  https://farmpolicynews.illinois.edu/2019/10/freezing-temperatures-and-snow-bring-harvest-challenges/
  
  https://principia-scientific.org/widespread-crop-failures-happening-all-over-america/
  
  Of course, none of this is reported in Stuff et al.
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:27am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Is anyone else bemused that the first ‘Climate model’ was called Magicc!
    
    Now you see your money.
    Now you don’t.
    
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    December 1, 2019 11:24am
- The King
  
  “What about claims of crop failure, famine, and mass death? That’s science fiction”
  
  Well somebody is lying..
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/29/zimbabwe-on-verge-of-manmade-starvation-warns-un-envoy
  
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  December 1, 2019 10:47am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Why even little Greta is revealing her true agenda:
  
  After all, the climate crisis is not just about the environment. It is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have created and fueled it. We need to dismantle them all. Our political leaders can no longer shirk their responsibilities.
  
  https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/climate-strikes-un-conference-madrid-by-greta-thunberg-et-al-2019-11
  
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  December 1, 2019 11:38am
  - JackRabbit
    
    A female Dr Evil – MiniMe clone.
    A product of indoctrination and brain washing. More easily achieved with an autistic child.
    
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    December 1, 2019 11:58am
  - JackRabbit
    
    So indoctrinated and naive is Greta, that the forces of oppression she is concerned about, are the very forces that are fueling and funding the climate change mania and the Extinction Rebellion hysteria.
    
    15 2
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    December 1, 2019 12:03pm
    - curry4me
      
      I tink she’s working on a book. ‘Mein Klima’.
      
      1 0
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      December 1, 2019 8:31pm
  - Komata
    
    Maggy@1138
    
    An autistic child using ‘big’ words and concepts?
    
    Thank goodness she’s got impartial, caring minders who are so dedicated to her care that they make money from her every appearance and can tell her (and indeed, coach her) on what she has to read and say…
    
    TLC taken to a whole new (monetary) level.
    
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    December 1, 2019 4:21pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Good post.
  
  Climate change activism is not about climate change but money and the politics behind it.
  
  The biggest problem behind those that have drunk the Climate change Koolaid, is the denial or unawareness that anyone would be so evil as to invent climate change propaganda on such a large scale.
  
  Since the dawn of the human race, there has always been good and evil. There has always been the battle between the good and the bad.
  
  The youth of today do not know of the horrors of two world wars, or the horror of Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot. They do not understand the mass hysteria and giant con that took hold of Germany, and suckered in the average peaceful German into being murders of Jews, and conquerors of European countries and murderers of the people.
  
  People in mobs, whether they be lynch mobs or an entire country, will often irrationally do, what the individual rationally would never do.
  
  That unconscious collective force that gripped Germany, is a similar collective force that propels the climate change scam. Mass hysteria whipped up and fueled by those hidden actors who stand to gain financially from the carbon credit scam, and other more dark agendas.
  
  Combating that irrationality and collective insanity, first starts with recognizing the potential for good and evil, externally, but firstly within ourselves. Those that are drawn to campaigns that are fundamentally evil, know not themselves.
  
  “Nobody is immune to a nationwide evil unless he is unshakably convinced of the danger of his own character being tainted by the same evil.”
  -Carl Jung
  
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  December 1, 2019 11:56am
John Warren

Is Venod Skantha NZ-born and raised, or an immigrant?
11 2
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December 1, 2019 10:10am
- The King
  
  An immigrant, you can tell because the media never mentions it. If he was Kiwi born they would say it as the first thing in every article.
  
  14 2
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  December 1, 2019 10:54am
  - Swifty
    
    That’d be my pick.
    
    6 0
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    December 1, 2019 12:52pm
- DigNap15
  
  Adern would say he is us.
  
  8 2
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  December 1, 2019 11:10am
- kevn
  
  @John… Very unlikely, bound to be a NZ born/Kiwi, but makes a good virtue signal sound in the media.
  
  4 1
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  December 1, 2019 11:13am
- Maggie Pie
  
  A couple of things we do know – Venod did his study here in Aucland where his mum & dad live.
  Back in 2017 he entered a ‘Chili Eating contest’ and won second place.
  
  Hope that helps?
  
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  December 1, 2019 12:23pm
kevn

Another NZ born frowny face joins the fold… Don’t hold your breath folks.
1 2
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December 1, 2019 11:06am
mikenmildagain

Time to make some changes to Mount Rushmore?
A majority of Republicans in a new poll believe Trump to be a greater president than Lincoln.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/nov/30/majority-of-republicans-pick-donald-trump-over-abr/
10 5
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December 1, 2019 11:09am
- Paginus
  
  Lincoln is by far the worst presidents ever. He got 620,000 Americans killed, and striped the power away from the states.
  
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  December 1, 2019 5:36pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Paginus.
    If you could spell and use basic grammar correctly, I’d probably pay more attention to the shit you’re trying to spout.
    Cheers, The Captain.
    
    6 0
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    December 1, 2019 8:28pm
Happychappy

Who the biggest nutter Wayne Brown or Shane Jones with both going all out to get the Ports of Auckland and now the Navy Base relocated to Whangarei.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/could-part-devonport-s-naval-base-relocated-whangarei
With the ports being 10 Billion or more you are looking at several Billion more to create a navy base, just so Winston an have a legacy.
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December 1, 2019 11:18am
- Nermal
  
  Can’t wait until they try to get resource consent to block half of the Whangarei Harbour entrance. Don’t think the taniwha will appreciate that
  
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  December 1, 2019 12:45pm
- Paulus
  
  Bet I could guess which Iwi owns the land where the Naval Dockyard and the possible new Port are to be sighted is to be sighted if a new one is bought and built.
  I believe Babcocks own the Devonport Dock.
  
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  December 1, 2019 1:33pm
- Tall Man
  
  There is great fishing within the Whangarei harbour plus a healthy population of shellfish.
  
  I for one would hate to see that dredged to extinction.
  
  8 1
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  December 1, 2019 1:57pm
  - Happychappy
    
    But Winston, Wayne and Shane don’t give two fucks about you Tall Man it’s all about them. As they say corrupt people only think of themselves, so let’s hope that they are not like that.
    
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    December 1, 2019 2:36pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I can see the reason for moving the naval base. The Dry Dock is too small, the area is to valuable for a Navy Base and the road in and out of Devonport is basically blocked twice a day.
  It doesn’t really matter where the Navy Base is built as there are no commercial reasons for it to be in a specific place.
  HOWEVER to move the POA is stupid. Majority of cargo is either destined or from Akl and areas South. All this cargo will have to go through Akl to get to Whangarei.
  To move the Port you will have to upgrade the road and rail links which will cost billions.
  PLUS
  You will have to build a new town/city to accommodate all the people that will be required to live there for the new port.
  PLUS
  You will have to build new schools/hospitals/shopping malls etc all of which will have to be paid for and not only by the Govt.
  This will cost 50 billion PLUS.
  Then the rump of POAL will have to provide tug and pilotage services for the 50 or so passenger vessels and any other ships that will call in Akl.
  
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  December 1, 2019 2:23pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Oh, Winston already has a legacy.
  
  But a legacy of being a lying, egotistical, society-disrupting, drunken, untrustworthy, mercenary dwarf.
  
  (Dear Mod: if I’ve gone too far, I get it).
  
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  December 1, 2019 5:45pm
All_on_Red

The FBI attorney under investigation for doctoring FISA documents emailed this to another FBI employee:
“As I have initiated the destruction of the republic— Would you be so kind as to have a coffee with me”

Sounds legit!
//
Yes yes, I know
You all want an update on General Flynn.
Soon.
Hey, what about that Stefan Halper.
Pretty good money being a spy, sorry,’researcher’…
7 3
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December 1, 2019 11:21am
Swifty

As people who have read my postings on here will know, I am a strong proponent of the notion that people must be free to think, believe and say (except perhaps injure others by telling lies about them) anything they like. Our society today sparkles with the rewards of this part of our culture. We are far better off than some others around the world because of it.

This of course extends to believing in gods, fairies, nymphs, leprechauns, sasquatch or nessies. It’s totally up to an individual what they believe.

For quite some years now I’ve been very conscious to at all times differentiate between the fanatics like the recent London Bridge terrorist and the majority of Muslims who live here in NZ and who wish only for peaceful, fulfilling lives – living on good terms with the people around them.

Given this, I have been extra careful to focus my criticisms on Islam as an ideology and not on Muslims as people. I still believe that this is the right course to take but must admit that in the last few years I’ve got less time for the notion that ‘mainstream Muslims’ bear no responsibility at all for the presence and actions of fanatics.

Please take a listen to this talk, or at least as much as you can stand to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuetaHtM1Zg

(I haven’t chosen this vid for any particular reason, it just popped up in my YouTube recommendations today, and I know from experience that I can show you hundreds or thousands just like it on YouTube saying very much the same things – as they’re all directly sourced from the Koran and the Hadith and if you’ve heard or seen one, you’ve heard or seen them all pretty much.)

Just listen to the absolutely mind-boggling, superstitious, elaborate, detailed mumbo-jumbo being presented to listeners as absolute fact. If you came across a random bloke on the street shouting this stuff you’d promptly ring an ambulance as the person would be clearly mentally unwell and in need of assistance of one form or another.

But the fact that the speech in the vid has a religious origin then if gets largely a free pass. It is excused, or at least not given as much criticism out of regard to respecting the religious beliefs of others.

Given my experience over particularly the last 10-15 years I can say with certainty this is exactly the sort of nonsense which is being drummed in to the minds of Muslims here in NZ and around the world. Drummed and drummed relentlessly. They are taught they must believe this nonsense on no evidence other than it being in their ‘holy’ books and that any evidence to the contrary must be shunned and avoided. They must ‘have faith’ and under the threat of an eternity in ‘the hellfire’.

This brings me to my main point. The real nasty Islamist fuckers, like Anjem Choudary, must count themselves a thousand times lucky that they’ve got this vast legion of (mostly young) Muslim men
to pick from and ‘nurture’ further and into barbaric acts, who from birth have been taught to believe any old shit, from any old bearded oaf dressed in robes and calling himself a sheik or imam and cast their critical faculties to one side.

To illustrate this further, consider how much luck the Choudary’s would have recruiting suicide bombers from secular New Zealanders versus tribal Pakistanis or Afghanis plucked from the mountainous provinces and transplanted in a matter of days into Tower Hamlets or Whanganui.

Secular New Zealanders would tell him to get fucked and immediately call the police in addition to giving him a fullsome and lengthy kicking until the cops arrived.

Mainstream Muslims and their teachings create minds and outlooks ripe for the plucking and as such need to reexamine what they are feeding young minds.

They are part of the problem.
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December 1, 2019 12:51pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  In Wanganui (I refuse to use the virtue-signalling ‘updated’ spelling) the Mayor and some councillors and other bleeding hearts would make him extremely welcome. And look puzzled and confused even as he sawed at their necks. And the police would simply celebrate the diversity of the victims, a la Cressida Dick.
  
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  December 1, 2019 5:42pm
Prince

Labour must be incensed that their slogan, or ‘strapline’ for the 2020 election was accidentally released during the Party Conference.
Following on from the highly successful ‘Let’s Do This’ in 2017, the new slogan ‘Details To Come’ was contained in some tweets from party members, following Grant Robertsons promise to ‘Spend up large on infrastructure, details to come later’.
Along the lines of Muldoon’s ‘New Zealand The Way You Want It’, Norm Kirk’s ‘Time For A Change’, Ardern’s ‘Let’s Do This’, this new slogan benefits from meaning whatever the listener wants it to be. ‘Details To Come’ means you fill in the blanks, you decide whatever you want and we will deliver it.
Look out for the bumper stickers, carefully dropped celebrity hints, and media pick-up on this over the next year. ‘Details To Come’ will be the trigger that launches Labour to power for three more years of, well, whatever you want to happen.
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December 1, 2019 1:03pm
- cut n paster
  
  Lets Do This…
  https://ibb.co/Qv3C8QT
  
  0 1
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  December 1, 2019 3:25pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I just had a little chunder in my mouth.
    
    4 0
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    December 1, 2019 7:49pm
    - cut n paster
      
      Apologies Captain – I have worked on this fine piece for a couple of hours and I guess I have become desensitised…
      
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      December 1, 2019 8:05pm
Rodney Randall

https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6110826963001

‘I ain’t no terrorist’: London Bridge attacker in 2008.

“Usman Khan, the 28-year-old who killed two people at London Bridge on Friday, denied claims in a 2008 BBC interview that he was terrorist following a raid on his address by anti-terror police.”

“Khan was one of a group of nine men who pled guilty to Al-Qaeda-inspired terrorism offenses, which included plans to bomb the London Stock Exchange and to build a terrorist training camp in Kashmir. The group had formed in October 2010 and were arrested in December 2010 after an extensive police operation.

Khan was a supporter of Al-Muhajiroun, the group led by Anjem Choudary, which has been dubbed Britain’s “most proliﬁc and dangerous extremist group”. He was said to be inspired by Al-Qaeda” – Wiki
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December 1, 2019 1:40pm
cut n paster

Mum cheers as son is jailed for beating dog to death
Dorset U.K. – Strikes me that there maybe a few parenting issues underlying this indefensible disgusting crime… crazy times ahead.

LINK: https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/29/mum-cheers-son-jailed-beating-dog-death-11240060/?ito=cbshare
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December 1, 2019 1:46pm
burt

IMPORTANT PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT.

Do remember it’s silly season and you may be drinking a bit more than you should at work Xmas functions. If you find yourself thrusting your hand down the pants of a young work colleague then immediately join the Labour Party.
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December 1, 2019 1:57pm
- Swifty
  
  For your convenience:
  
  New Zealand Labour Party
  PO Box 784
  Wellington
  
  Phone: +64 4 384 7649
  Fax: +64 4 384 8060
  Email: reception@labour.org.nz
  
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  December 1, 2019 2:08pm
- MCos
  
  You sound like you’ve got your hand down your own pants.
  
  1 8
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  December 1, 2019 2:11pm
  - burt
    
    And if I join the Labour Party I could probably do that in public and anyone offended would be instructed to avoid me. Well, at least until The Spinoff do an article on me.
    
    2 1
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    December 1, 2019 8:48pm
fightingtemeraire

The Book of the Year in the UK according to Waterstones is a book on
The Collected Speeches of Greta Thunberg (AKA THe Screeching Swede)
5 1
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December 1, 2019 2:26pm
- burt
  
  I might buy a copy so that I can quote from it in a couple of years to show the folly of group think and political agendas pretending to be science.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:53pm
Swifty

My friend and I have just come back from St Lukes Mall:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=KPZr_1575156571

NSFW.
6 2
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December 1, 2019 2:37pm
The King

Turns out the guy who was stabbed to death by the Muslim yesterday was a Liberal who wrote a thesis complaining about to many Muslims in jail..

It was the terrorist who organized the meeting from prison with this guy and other liberals.

HAHAHA

https://twitter.com/Zod14_/status/1200940259011371008
7 2
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December 1, 2019 2:41pm
- The King
  
  He wanted terrorists back on the streets and he got killed for it.
  
  Oh boy oh my lololololol
  
  6 2
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  December 1, 2019 2:44pm
  - The King
    
    Even more coming out now, the guy stabbed was funded by George Soros by way of Jennifer Rubin ‘champion for equality diversity and inclusion’ UKRI to host the event he got stabbed at.
    
    Rubin..well of course i don’t even need to say it.
    
    He’s also a rabid anti-White poster on facebook.
    
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    December 1, 2019 3:39pm
Happychappy

Are the Government trying to fool the voter,Mildale another money-go-round keeping debt off the Governments books. NZ needs infrastructure as much as it needs housing. Urban Development Minister Twyford identified another way of raising money to pay for infrastructure which keeps debt off local and central Governments books therefore hidden from the voter.
https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/102808/crown-company-borrows-money-infrastructure-crown-entity-rate-537-sake-keeping-debt.
This has been done with Housing NZ also as you can never get figure you need to expose this blatant political fraudto help the voter no the facts.
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December 1, 2019 3:20pm
Fisiani

http://david-collier.com/letter-orthodox-rabbi/

Fake news from the UK. A letter from Jewish Corbyn fans was fabricated and this article shows the journalism that exposed the fake letter. Labour UK is truly for the many and not the Jew.
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December 1, 2019 4:42pm
- The King
  
  And? last i checked jews had their own country.
  
  0 7
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  December 1, 2019 6:55pm
  - oob
    
    The jew country is the Jewnited States of ZionAmerica.
    
    But I think you were referring to Palestine which, exactly like the Isis caliphate, the ‘Israel’ terrorist organisation is occupying.
    
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    December 1, 2019 7:31pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What’s your recommended solution for the Jewish problem?
    
    3 1
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    December 1, 2019 7:38pm
    - burt
      
      What Jewish problem?
      
      0 0
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      December 1, 2019 8:50pm
Tall Man

If these twats are our future then possibly extinction is the only viable option.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/12/simon-bridges-office-defaced-by-extinction-rebellion.html
7 2
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December 1, 2019 4:50pm
greybeard

This England cricket team isn’t here to play cricket.
They are here for a holiday.
What pathetic performances: crap batting, crap bowling, they are simply taking the piss out of NZ.
4 2
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December 1, 2019 5:53pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Seems to me they had a reasonable day today – batted three sessions for 230 runs losing 3 wickets. Not looking like they’ll press for the win, but still quite respectable.
  
  2 2
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  December 1, 2019 7:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Houston, we have a problem.
No new posts after 1.57pm
6 2
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December 1, 2019 5:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NASA, Need Another Seven automods
  
  8 2
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  December 1, 2019 5:58pm
curry4me

I saw an ad featuring a journalist at a bus stop. I’ve got a better version:

[Insert name here]

Detained Malaysia 2009. Pakistan 2019 Coding Course AUT 2020

Thinks Truth is either a defunct tabloid, or the English translation of Pravda.
1 0
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December 1, 2019 8:51pm

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