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December 18, 2019 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 December 2019

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Maggie Pie

https://twitter.com/Iainl.G/status/1206758890215313408

[Mod: Broken link Maggie. Maybe Mr LG had second thoughts]
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December 18, 2019 8:00am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  “The National Party’s campaign of division wants you to hate beneficiaries, state house tenants, cyclists, union members,….”
  
  Yeah I doubt that. Simon Bridges isn’t the hating type. Socialists on the other hand… Seriously just browse The Standard… Wall to Wall hate ?
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:16am
  - freethinker
    
    Ditto UK Labour and US Demorats.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:19am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    Union members are the only ones I have a problem with
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:23am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      I don’t have a problem with Union members. I do have an issue with Union bureaucrats, especially ones that know nothing about the industries they’re the Union for (like ILG was a secretary for the Nurses Union).
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:07am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    “The National Party’s campaign of division wants you to hate beneficiaries, state house tenants, cyclists, union members,….”
    
    I see absolutely nothing wrong with being accused of any of those things (notwithstanding ‘hate’ being a strong word).
    
    The reality is, politics is necessarily about division and contrast– your ideas, versus the other guy’s. Looking at this type of accusation as a negative is fundamentally wrongheaded: it is a positive. It’s only a negative when you buy into the Socialist world view, using it as a values prism through which you assign good/bad, right/wrong.
    
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    December 18, 2019 12:19pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  link still working for me mr. mod
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:17am
- rightoverlabour
  
  He must like abuse, look at the responses!
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:28am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    LOL. You could say the same about Simon Bridges. He’s constantly copping shit on twitter.
    
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    December 18, 2019 5:26pm
- mandk
  
  Crikey!
  
  I never thought Lees-Galloway was all that bright, but that tweet really deserves a prize for stupidity.
  
  It goes to show, though, that many leftie politicians suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect. They think voters are dim-witted, when they are the ones lacking brainpower.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:28am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Try without the dot.
  
  https://twitter.com/IainLG/status/1206758890215313408
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:10am
mikenmildagain

Hey, hey, it’s St Sebastian’s day. Sebastian was a Roman military commander, whose Christian faith was discovered. Diocletian reproached him for his betrayal, and he commanded him to be led to a field and there to be bound to a stake so that certain archers from Mauritania would shoot arrows at him. The archers shot till he was as full of arrows as an hedgehog is full of pricks. Miraculously, the arrows did not kill him. A friend went to retrieve his body to bury it, and discovered he was still alive. Sebastian later stood by a staircase where the emperor was to pass and harangued Diocletian for his cruelties against Christians. Recovering from his surprise, the emperor ordered Sebastian seized and beaten to death with cudgels, and his body thrown into the common sewer.
Sebastian is the patron saint of archers.
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December 18, 2019 8:00am
- Evadne
  
  Why the down ticks? These facts of the day and historical stories are always interesting, and I usually learn something.
  
  Thanks Mike. You’ll have to ignore those who aren’t interested in expanding their knowledge, even of the most trivial things.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:08am
- MCos
  
  He’s the patron saint of archers?
  That’s a bit like making Mitchell Starc the patron saint of batsmen.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:18am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The church asserted this patronage in an moment of ironic relection. No word on why he is not the patron saint of clubsmen (clubbers?).
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:45am
- Scott
  
  Hi Mikey,
  thank you for that very interesting information about those saints who died for their Christian faith. Some really interesting things that I did not know.
  
  I realise deep down that you are not such a bad fellow despite what other people may say about you 🙂
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:55am
- softail 1450
  
  MMA ,see what happens MMA even when you post a very interesting informative piece you get what I think are unwarranted D/T’s, its because your shit is usually unreadable and only suitable for a downticking ,unfortunately my guess is people dont read they just downtick out of a justifiable habit..
  Your posts are the “archers paradox” LOL.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:28am
  - freethinker
    
    Spot on.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:24am
- Fletch
  
  Indeed. If you google him, you can find some quite gory paintings.
  
  https://uploads3.wikiart.org/images/andrea-mantegna/st-sebastian-1506.jpg
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:51am
dave_c_

A cynic might conclude that the government has already decided to prevent access to White Island going forward.
Apparently, University of Auckland honorary academic and law school lecturer Kenneth Palmer is proclaiming that it is now time for the owner/s of the island to sell it back to the crown and turn it into a public reserve, or that the government could
acquire it by the public works act.
I just wonder if this academic has been asked to soften us up for an action that is already being planned.
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December 18, 2019 8:00am
- dave_c_
  
  Perhaps another ‘Executive decision’ coming or way ?
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:06am
  - Nickc2
    
    Captain’s call between photo shoots?
    
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    December 18, 2019 8:26am
    - Tall Man
      
      After the 8 week break.
      
      FFS, how many young mums holding down a fulltime job on minimum wage without a nanny and a stay at hone fishermen would like an 8 week break on $10k per week?
      
      To those pathetic sycophantic trolls who follow the liar in chief, please list the achievements that ardern has implemented that have benefited those hard working young mothers and made a difference.
      
      When they do, which we all know they won’t, how about others list the negatives that the idiot coalition has created.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:15am
      - herb1
        
        That’s unfair on Ardern supporters.
        The smallest thing on a keyboard is the dot symbol.
        What do you expect them to use . Fresh air?
        
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        December 18, 2019 12:01pm
      - igm
        
        The old mare is only interested in muslims, criminals (especially islamists), leeches, losers, and unemployable stallions and mares producing illegitimate unemployable guaranteed Labour voters.
        
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        December 18, 2019 12:46pm
      - Tall Man
        
        All day….. nothing. ardern’s support dissipating by the day.
        
        That’s what happens to liars over time. The wiser ones move away from the smelly corpse of democracy created by the dictator…..
        
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        December 18, 2019 8:05pm
  - freethinker
    
    More likely a Craptains call from the frowny horse toothed one.
    
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    December 18, 2019 8:33am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      JA: “White Island, we need to have a conversation.”
      
      WI: “Burp.”
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:06am
- Colville
  
  $75,000 QV!
  
  Lol
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:08am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  I’m not sure the Island could be compulsorily acquired. What essential works would be cited? Anyway it is unnecessary. People can make up their own minds. I think there will be a downturn in customers for a while.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:20am
  - G152
    
    In the mean time I can guarantee there will be no ‘occupation’ 🙂
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:18am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      G152: Winning comment. IMO.
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:06am
    - alwyn
      
      I’m not sure I’d bet on that. Having read the story about St Sebastian that MMA was telling I’m beginning to think that there really may be people silly enough to occupy the place.
      Lucy Lawless might be silly enough to lead the landing.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:26am
      - sooty
        
        Would she take lizzie with her?
        
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        December 18, 2019 3:33pm
- cmm
  
  Meanwhile nobody does anything to secure the beaches where somewhere near 100 drown annually.
  
  Only people with adequate training should be allowed onto beaches and only if they are wearing the correct safety gear all the time and all beaches to be cordoned off if there is any side wash or waves bigger than 27cm
  
  Anyone playing a game of beach cricket should first fill out a H&S assessment which must be printed and carried by each player. Form available at http://www.nomorefun.gov.nz
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Link broken. Another Govt thing that does not work. //
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:14am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    not forgetting compulsory 30cm thick body wrapping in cotton wool and mouth guards. Cricket bats can be very dangerous when being swung and sometimes they can slip out of your hands especially with the slog through the leg side.
    Hi-vis jackets should also be made compulsory in all supermarket carparks
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:31am
  - lifesgood
    
    Don’t give them ideas, cmm
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:27am
  - david
    
    You forget the warning signs to be erected on every road leading to water – “water can kill you – avoid it at all cost unless properly equipped”
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:42am
- Straight arrow
  
  I only we had legislation that restricted access to dangerous situations….oh wait, we do.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:58am
- Albert_Ross
  
  The guy is repeatedly referred to as a “legal expert” but almost nothing he says is a matter of law; what he is advocating is a matter of public policy. As such his opinion on the matter is worth no more than mine, Lorde’s or Richie McCaw’s. A real journalist would know that
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:58am
  - dave_c_
    
    This is the insidious nature of things – He may well have been fingered to make these assertions, and media instructed to listen and report.
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:14am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Prithee sirrah – where may this curious extinct life form, a real journalist, still be found…?
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:07am
  - alwyn
    
    I read the article, and then read his CV according to the University of Auckland. I couldn’t believe that he really had any law qualifications.
    Can a real lawyer read what he says and then tell me the answer to the following items.
    How can they take ownership under the Public Works Act. What use can they possibly have for the Island?
    He seems to want it in Public Ownership so that people can be prevented from landing there. If privately owned you can’t stop landing. True?
    Then he proposes that it be turned over to the local Iwi. Wouldn’t that just put it back into private ownership and let them clip the ticket for allowing people to visit?
    How can you possibly hand it over to Iwi, anyway? If you take land under the Public Works Act, and no longer require it they would have to offer it back to the Buttles surely. You can’t just pass it off to someone else.
    Or don’t little things like the law have any meaning to people like Kenneth Palmer? Or the current Government for that matter?
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118248370/whakaariwhite-island-should-be-bought-off-buttle-family-and-managed-by-doc-and-iwi-law-expert-says
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:22am
- MCos
  
  All my life I’ve known White Island to be a particularly dangerous active volcano and I was surprised to learn that twenty thousand tourists go there per annum.
  Surely it was inevitable that one of the regular eruptions would occur when a bunch of people were over there, I’d have thought, particularly as it appears there was no forewarning, unlike other volcanoes.
  Also this wasn’t the result of a momentary lapse of concentration as causes most fatal accidents.
  Now we have numerous dead, permanently disabled, and long term injured with all the grief that is causing. Very high cost to our health system plus ongoing disruption. The cost of transporting the patients back to Australia and continuing care over there.
  No doubt if tours resume there will be people who will put down there money and head over there.
  Hundreds of people dying on Mt Everest doesn’t stop the crowds giving it a crack.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:29am
- lifesgood
  
  Why should they?
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:26am
- KH
  
  This is no legal expert. This is yet another do-gooder with no better idea to offer than “the gubmint should do somefink”
  
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  December 18, 2019 2:14pm
- Jack5
  
  An attack on New Zealand’s ACC no-fault accident compensation scheme has been made in Australia following the White Island deaths and injuries.
  
  In the Sydney Morning Herald, Rod Hodgson describes the ACC system as uniquely bad.
  
  A sample:
  
  Many tourists to New Zealand wrongly assume they are in safe hands, with the proper risk assessments undertaken, and legal accountability the same as Australia and other Western nations. What they may not know is that New Zealand has extinguished legal rights which people in Australia, Canada, the UK and USA take for granted.
  
  No-fault schemes such as the ACC foster a lax safety culture, writes Hodgson. ” There is little accountability when preventable accidents occur. Compared with Australia, the ACC has fewer incentives or serious consequences for companies to ensure safety is prioritised.”
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/volcano-victims-dignity-betrayed-as-nz-s-no-fault-system-lets-tour-operators-off-the-hook-20191218-p53kzm.html
  
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  December 18, 2019 5:25pm
artemisia

About those hopeful first home buyers…… Even if they could pay off a mortgage they struggle to get the deposit together.

How is this for an idea. If they receive Working for Families they could elect to have it paid straight into the Kiwisaver account, from where the exact same rules as other contributions would apply. Like withdraw only for a first home or the small number of other reasons. Take a contribution holiday if they need to. All the systems are already in place, just a different source of funds going in.

Probably need to tighten the belt for a while but offsetting that they will see their Kiwisaver balance grow much faster.

It would mainly appeal to those households planning to buy anyway but could bring home ownership well forward, maybe by years.

An idea worth a look?
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December 18, 2019 8:05am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Great idea, hope someone makes it happen!
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:36am
- mandk
  
  If a Samoan truck driver, heading a single-income family of 6, can get a deposit together for a house purchase in Christchurch in just a few years, why is what you suggest necessary?
  
  There may be the odd exception but, for most people, it’s a matter of priorities.
  
  If you want to own a property, how about starting with something modest and working your way up?
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:48am
  - igm
    
    He and his family wee prepaed to do without many unnecessary luxuries, did not booze, smoke, and gamble. A fine Christian family with ideals.
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:05am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Half the deposit was a family gift …
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:45am
      - Sacha
        
        Family will often step forward to help if they see that there is real determination to succeed. I was ‘gifted’ half the deposit for my first house. I paid it back when I sold it. Similarly, I ‘gave’ my son his deposit by getting a mortgage on mine, and he repaid it when he sold.
        The trick is to get onto the bottom rung the real estate ladder and step up, and up. We all bought suburban renovation projects and got healthy ‘profits’.
        
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        December 18, 2019 2:54pm
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        I wasn’t lucky enough to have family with that kind of money. A lot of people are like me. It was hard.
        
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        December 18, 2019 5:30pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Easy to save up a deposit when all your income tax is refunded to you through WFF and others are forced to pay 100% of your children’s schooling and healthcare. See “net taxpayer”, which NZ only has a few hundred thousand of, out of a population of 5m.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:52am
    - igm
      
      Well let’s face it, whatever the family received, it did not get pissed up against a wall, wasted on slow horses, smoked, or takeaways. This being the domain of ardent and confirmed Labour mob.
      
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      December 18, 2019 12:49pm
  - suzieq
    
    A family of six? Give me strength.
    
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    December 18, 2019 4:38pm
- cmm
  
  By WFF you mean actually working right?
  
  The only hassle with that is that WFF is not pitched as saving. It is pitched as making life more cushy for everyone. If they end up saving that then, well, they don’t get the short term advantage.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:49am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Nope. I for one am heartily sick of other people wanting Government to tell me how to manage my own life and nor do I think you do a person any real favours by doing something for them that they can already do for themselves. If you want your WFF to go into your KiwiSaver, put your WFF into your KiwiSaver. Either or both of your KiwiSaver provider or your bank will be more than happy to help set it up.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:03am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Kiwisaver should only be for retirement. Using it as a deposit is just fueling the property bubble. I would make Kiwisaver fully tax-deductible while dropping the $521 annual tax credit.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:55am
    - Tall Man
      
      A step backwards but a step forward in results.
      
      The other thing that would help would be to reinstate the tax free status of employer contributions but lock them in until retirement.
      
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      December 18, 2019 1:42pm
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  So working for families – i.e. other taxpayer’s money pays for people’s house deposits.
  Brilliant. Why not just cut out the middle man and go full socialist and give people government houses?
  Laughable.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:03am
  - Tall Man
    
    I have had more than one client who used WFF to purchase an investment property… One had a boob job as well 🙂
    
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    December 18, 2019 1:43pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The problem is high house prices relative to incomes. The solution must involve reducing the amount of capital that is going into the housing market, not increasing it. Otherwise we’re just adding fuel to the fire. Hardly anyone seems to get that.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:21am
  - Tall Man
    
    Can’t see why lower income people don’t buy lower priced housing and move forward like the bulk of us greedy “boomers”.
    
    I’m still doing that by improving my current house.
    
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    December 18, 2019 1:45pm
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Probably something to do with the dearth of lower priced housing I imagine.
      
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      December 18, 2019 5:32pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Or to put it another way – first home grants and ratting Kiwisaver (which has had govt assistance) do not get any more houses built. As you say – they just add a bit of petrol to the fire.
    
    I think the answer involves a concerted effort to build a lot of 100-120 sq m 3-br basic houses. Think Neil Homes and the like from the 70’s. Think State houses from before that. All still standing. All still occupied.
    
    If the private sector wants to step up, then some government help seems sensible.
    
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    December 18, 2019 5:00pm
- MrLovebucket
  
  It probably helps if you get off the couch, get a job and don’t blow it all on stupid things like smokes, drink, pokies and meth.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:23am
- Michael
  
  art
  no withdrawals.
  
  it is for retirement dummy.
  duh!
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:36am
- Lizziep
  
  I am very sorry I reported you when I was thinking I was pushing the reply button, oops artemisia. I was going to say in the not that distant past perhaps it is but you could capitalise on the Family Benefit to assist with mortgages.
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:44am
- Ian Boag
  
  A great idea. Do the sums. Show us how it could work.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:14pm
freethinker

Just read on Stuff the idea that when councils discharge waste into rivers individual who have responsibility for the system should also be fined like a farmer/director would be for the same offence. This would then create accountability and should apply across the whole public sector – the fine need not be huge but proportionate to the scale & frequency of offending just like it does/should in other cases. The council should also be fined accordingly and the funds contributed to a local charity . It is interesting that Judges are reluctant to fine councils as the ratepayer actually bears the cost so make it mandatory that come election time those councilors involved in the decision making leading to the offence be required to include the details on their election profile information.
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December 18, 2019 8:09am
- Jules99
  
  I don’t want my rates to be diverted into a local charity. Round my way that’s shorthand for give to the local Marae.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:49am
- david
  
  Councils would immediately take out extensive Officers Liability Insurance and the ‘crats would continue their merry way protected by ratepayers’ dollars as usual.
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:47am
Yvette

• Pike River – ”We’ll shut and secure the door [170m in] now for a couple of weeks. It will give us more time to monitor the underground environment before starting to remove the barrier in the new year.”
• Ihumātao
• the Maria Dew, QC, report

Guess that will make 2020 “the year of delivery” – like, of what wasn’t delivered in 2019
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December 18, 2019 8:14am
- G152
  
  All that BS and they’re only 170m in ?????
  I’ll bet their office has carpet…
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:22am
- stigie
  
  “Guess that will make 2020 “the year of delivery””
  
  Guess that will make 2020 “the year of bribery”
  Thought i would fix that for you !~
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:07am
- freethinker
  
  Well if it happens that will be the first delivery from these clowns.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:31am
Maggie Pie

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing my dad warned me about, from when I was old enough to go out with boys all by myself 🙁

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12226212
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December 18, 2019 8:14am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Wow what a nasty bloke. A hidden dark side. Can’t say I will miss him.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:21am
- MrLovebucket
  
  The Warrior Gene strikes again.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:25am
  - sooty
    
    Who’s he?
    What was his job?
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:39am
    - curry4me
      
      An ‘actor’ on Shortland Street.
      
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      December 18, 2019 9:54am
- The King
  
  Ah a man of culture i see.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:42am
  - freethinker
    
    17th Century culture?
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:32am
    - The King
      
      Nope 21 century Polynesian culture, seriously though you all cheer on tribal aggressive war dances then expect what?
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:19am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        The King , like two 20th C European World wars?
        
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        December 18, 2019 12:19pm
      - theoldbloke
        
        Ok, I am guessing here, maybe you refer to Haka and similar.(Tribal aggressive war dances??)
        
        One day when you have little else to do. Lookup haka and its place in Maori culture…Hint Hint. Its not a war dance.
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:15pm
    - The King
      
      @theoldbloke
      
      This literally says “Haka – the Dance of War”
      
      https://www.newzealand.com/int/feature/haka/
      
      You’re only fooling yourself old man.
      
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      December 18, 2019 1:26pm
      - theoldbloke
        
        Haka are a fierce display of a tribe’s pride, strength and unity.
        
        This is SOMETIMES a prelude to conflict.
        
        Have you ever been to a University Graduation when a Maori student gets Capped.
        Their Whanau and supporters erupt in to a Haka.
        War dance?? Methinks not.
        
        Can I suggest you read more than a NZ Herald article to get the real story
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:45pm
      - The King
        
        @theoldbloke
        
        That’s not the herald that’s the official New Zealand dot com website.
        
        Get ya specs checked gramps.
        
        It’s celebrating violence and you know it.
        
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        December 18, 2019 3:36pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The poor woman.
  
  I remember the praising obituaries from the luvvies splashed all over the MSM
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2019/07/robbie-magasiva-says-he-could-foresee-the-fall-of-his-brother-pua.html
  
  .. no mention of the drunken, wife-beating episodes.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:49am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I see Oscar Knightley described him as “one of “Wellington and Samoa’s finest sons”.
  
  I guess that’s true unless he’s giving you the ‘bash’.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:59am
  - Komata
    
    Bobba@0959
    
    A point to remember: ‘The Bash’ is very ‘Cultural’ and normal amongst Pacific Island communities, with both men and women indulging in the practice. Contrary to what certain white female activist groups might believe, within such societies, women BTW tend to practice its use more than men.
    
    (Just saying).
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:01am
    - Tall Man
      
      And it’s not always the jandal.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxiZE8U9ksw
      
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      December 18, 2019 1:33pm
Simon

Cannabis-induced psychosis or just good ole meth causing all the Police shootings?

Police routinely shooting people then all the underlying crime will be up as well.

It’s the dealers who should be shot not the junkies. Get the war on drugs under way.
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December 18, 2019 8:17am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Perpetuating that old myth again fella.
  
  Latest studies have shown that, rather than cannabis causing psychosis, it’s more likely that people who psychotic illnesses, i.e. schizophrenia, are attempting to self-medicate with cannabis in an attempt to relieve their symptoms.
  
  You’re confusing correlation with causation.
  
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  December 18, 2019 5:35pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  However, meth – that’s another story. Can’t see much good in that.
  
  But a war on drugs does about as much good as alcohol prohibition did.
  
  The solution isn’t going to be found in a war. We need to treat drug addiction as a health issue.
  
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  December 18, 2019 5:37pm
Justitia

I see we are now being prepared by Far Left propaganda outlets for a crackdown on “racism” next year, no doubt in the lead up to circumscribing further our right to free speech, as promised by Little and Ardern: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/117894855/being-kiwi-racism-exists-but-it-is-not-welcome-here.

The Human Rights Commissioner, Jeremy Corbyn’s former party colleague, Paul Hunt, will be gathering data. Could it be he doesn’t have a position to go to back to now in the UK? Will more of his ilk be heading our way now that the Marxist takeover of the UK has been blown apart by the good people of the North? No doubt “Islamophobia” will be outlawed as “racism” along with any questioning of Maori ethno-nationalism. This is an insult to New Zealanders who in my experience are among the least “racist” people in the world.
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December 18, 2019 8:19am
- The King
  
  Im only seeing Maoris getting 9 years jail to pay hitmen to kill random White people.
  
  This won’t end how they think it will and more Maoris will be locked up for “racism”
  
  Call me a ‘Pakeha’ and ill make sure you go to jail.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:46am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Dude, I’ve read no less than three comments in here where you’ve spouted racist generalisation.
    
    People like you contribute greatly to the problem, and I’m really surprised the moderators allow this kind of stuff on this site.
    
    Put the bong down son, you’re already baked.
    
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    December 18, 2019 5:40pm
    - The King
      
      Oh does your “racist” word have no power over me?
      
      Yeah more censorship is what we need! I’m sure it was mean words on the internet that inspired a Maori to kill random White people.
      
      Go back to facebook. Your safe space.
      
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      December 18, 2019 6:47pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  “It is essential that our police start recording and reporting on the prevalence of hate-motivated crimes.” Kamala Hayman Stuffed.
  
  Under a National Government a ‘submission’ was made to the UNHRC (signed off by Susan Devoy) requesting a review of our existing speech laws. The review canvassed the possibility of augmenting existing laws with the addition of “Disharmonious Speech” laws whose sole purpose would enable the ‘protection’ of “minority religious groups”
  
  The National Party will suffer a devastating defeat at the next election if they allow the complete obliteration of Section 14 – The NZ Bill of Rights and rightly so.
  
  They have one chance to save NZ from going down the path the UK has.
  
  Send Paul Hunt back to the UK!
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:05pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I think you haven’t figured out yet that National aren’t the government and unless sanity prevails within the coalition National don’t have the votes to do “jack shit”.
    
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    December 18, 2019 1:21pm
    - Rodney Randall
      
      “National don’t have the votes to do “jack shit.”
      
      There is only one way to garner those votes and that is to publicly condemn any attempts to strangle Section 14 – NZ Bill of Rights by Corbyn imposters.
      
      Paul Hunt must be told, in no uncertain terms, that Section 14 is here to stay and that if he has a problem with our laws he is free to foxtrot oscar back to the UK where he can indulge his totalitarian fantasies.
      
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      December 18, 2019 2:17pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I understand your frustration but currently they don’t have a flag pole so why try flying your flag?
        
        This government is so useless they will actually get around to doing not a lot and all National need to do is allow them to shoot themselves in the foot and head.
        
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        December 18, 2019 4:20pm
- DigNap15
  
  If you don’t like islam – you don’t have to
  .
  Part of being free, is being free to not like something.
  
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  December 18, 2019 7:48pm
JibberJabber

Politicians are wonderful people as long as they stay away from things they don’t understand, such as working for a living.

P. J. O’Rourke
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December 18, 2019 8:20am
- freethinker
  
  When you find out what Politicians especially this Govt of clowns understand write it down on the back of a postage stamp – won’t be holding my breath whilst you answer.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:35am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t think JJ was being a mikey.
    
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    December 18, 2019 1:19pm
cmm

Bloody cold in Canterbury today. Snow warnings for Porters Pass on SH73.

Nothing new though – same thing happened New Years Eve in 2001 and 2005 IIRC.

In the 1940s there was a huge dump of snow in Darfield (approx 250m above sea level) on Christmas day. No SUVs back then.

C’mon Greta can’t you deliver on this Global Warming you were promising?
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December 18, 2019 8:21am
- Stephen Russell
  
  Some local warming would be fine. But Adelaide is forecast to hit 42degC today. They might not appreciate any global warming there today.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:42am
- Tony Stuart
  
  We were in Hanmer Springs for New Year a few years back, and a southerly came through overnight, When we left Hanmer at 10am on New Year’s Day, there was snow on all the surrounding hills. It was bitterly cold.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:48am
  - greybeard
    
    Yep, I recall a similar event at Wanaka one Christmas holiday in the mid-1970s. Snow down almost to lake.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:49am
- OTGO
  
  Yes I can remember staying in my father’s caravan in the Omarama camp ground over NYE 2001 with my young family and the snow lying on the ground. Bloody cold. Compare this to the 35 deg C at the Kurow races a couple of days before.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:25am
- chaos
  
  Snow on the hills behind us. Fires all going. And our second day of a power cut because some idiot driver. We’ve had coldish summers for a while now
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Handy information for those who get defamed on line:
The Court of Appeal has confirmed that there is no time bar on filing defamation proceedings if damages are not sought .
This judgment suggests that anyone seeking a declaration from the Court to get material taken down could be able to do so as long as the material remains available online, long after it was first published.
https://yournz.org/2019/12/18/time-bar-doesnt-apply-in-defamation-case-with-no-damages-sought-nottingham-loses-another-appeal/
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December 18, 2019 8:22am
- cmm
  
  Geez, MW, glad you seem to be more or less on my side.
  
  I’d hate to be on your list.
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:30am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Why do think I am always nice to Maggy? ( Besides the fact she is highly intelligent, and never abuses anyone, and agrees with me on Climate Change)?
    
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    December 18, 2019 8:48am
    - Michael
      
      .
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:41am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I have no intention of defaming anyone on or off “my side”.
    
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    December 18, 2019 8:57am
    - lifesgood
      
      I don’t always agree with MW but she is probably the poster on here I admire the most. Highly intelligent and always has worthwhile things to say. This is what mature debate is all about. You don’t always have to agree but you can respect the opinions of others.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:33am
Tauhei Notts

I wonder if other posters have noticed how the National Party appears in the NZ Herald as a paid advertisement, but Labour’s advertisements are dressed up as news stories.
That is the sort of thing that puts my bulldust detectors upon alert.
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December 18, 2019 8:22am
- alloytoo
  
  All about open transparency eh?
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:01am
KevO'Brien

WFF is the present day Family Benefit and income tax rebates for dependants. Unlike the FB it is income tested.
Back in 1964 the FB could be “capitalised” and a lump sum provided as a deposit to buy the State House you were living in. Interest rates were only 3% and part of the market price was rebated too by by way of a “suspensory loan”. If the newly purchased property was occupied for a following few years that amount was forgiven.
The scheme worked well in its time.
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December 18, 2019 8:24am
- MCos
  
  WFF is not the present day FB.
  The family benefit was universal, as I recall.
  
  We capitalized our FB to buy a house that wasn’t a state house. If I remember correctly there was a limit on the price of the house you could buy so house prices went up to meet that limit. Maybe not that exact rort, but there was some funny business going on.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:45am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The FB was discontinued when WFF came in. It had been paid directly to the mothers of the children or the dads otherwise.
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:56am
- Jules99
  
  My parents took advantage of this and still tell me what a boon it was for them.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:52am
  - alwyn
    
    I have to admit that my mother saved up the family benefit she received for us kids and spent it on a new car. I think we were the first family in the street to be a two car household. That would have been in about 1954. She gave the car to me about 10 years later so I guess I should be grateful.
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:39am
    - Tall Man
      
      You guess?
      
      Boy, you’re a brave bugger…………
      
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      December 18, 2019 1:17pm
      - alwyn
        
        It was a little British made machine..
        An A30 from Austin.
        The cars they made in those days were better that the later ones from the “glory” days of British Leyland but they still weren’t that great. It was worn out after about 70,000 miles.
        My father offered to give me his old car when I finished University. I decided I really couldn’t afford to maintain it though. A Mark 1 3.4 litre Jag. I’m sure that would have gone down better with girls of course.
        
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        December 18, 2019 3:51pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I bet you wish you had that MK 1 in the garage now.
        
        https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/jaguar/auction-2386167461.htm?rsqid=e71907e015054ac78137159ff42edae5-004
        
        A real chick puller 🙂
        
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        December 18, 2019 4:56pm
oldpark

The chickens are coming home to roost . Yes it seems that the Peters selected SLG from Morrinsville who made a so called unilateral childish decision perhaps jointly with her selector Peters to shut down oil and gas exploration in Taranaki.
Seems NZs oil and gas stocks are rapidly diminishing. Costs to the consumer are also rising . Genesis will increase their charges from early JANUARY 2020.
Seems that an energy crisis for NZ in the nature of things is not far away . Wonder what everyday NZ will do when the cost of imported oil or gas prices rocket out of control .
Heard a person with an off shore accent from Greenpeace berate the latest granting of an exploration permit to an oil company to explore the Southern Basin. Seems according to that eco- terrorist mouthpiece it was a betrayal by the NZ Government to grant a permit . Even though that was perfectly legal .All part of long standing agreements and also the law of contract.
Wonder if the legal status for the eco-terrorists in Greenpeace had their tax free status as a Charity withdrawn,and so it should be, perhaps the pathetic attacks on NZs Energy supplies for the well being of the Nation and its citizens would be silenced.
Not forgetting the Peters/Ardern fuelled decision to end all oil and gas exploration once permits expire in NZ should be revisited. We won’t hold our breath as idealogy in our present Government overrides any common sense to satisfy the will of the people.FFS.
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December 18, 2019 8:25am
- cmm
  
  There are a few massive problems with playing the start/stop/start/stop game in oil and gas, and similar industries:
  1) Development takes a long time. Even in the most benign waters it takes 5 to 10 years to develop a well head. You can’t just say “oh shit there’s no more gas in the pipe” and whack in another well. It’s a bit more complicated than nipping down to Countdown for another litre of 2%.
  2) You first have to find the potential well sites. before you can develop them. That adds another 5 years.
  3) If you have chased away the capital, the people and the equipment that make this all happen then you first have to rebuild trust with the industry. Add another 5 years.
  
  Thus you need to keep the conveyour belt of development going otherwise you feel the crunch – not immediate, but deferred by 10 to 20 years.
  
  So the people impacted by PriNZess show-ponying in the UN are really us now, but us in the period 2030-2040.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wonder what everyday NZ will do when the cost of imported oil or gas prices rocket out of control .
  
  Perhaps we could do what Britain and some EU countries are doing….
  chop down forests, chip the wood and burn them in biomass converters….
  
  https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/12/17/burning-forests-is-not-a-very-good-idea-decides-guardian-six-years-too-late/
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/dec/16/converting-coal-plants-to-biomass-could-fuel-climate-crisis-scientists-warn
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:04am
  - cmm
    
    You left out the best bit:
    
    Chop down forests IN AMERICA and transport it by oil-powered ships to UK.
    
    All done to reach sustainable biofuel targets.
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:07am
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Climate deniers there is always the option of thransport by Hot Air Balloons.
      
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      December 18, 2019 9:28am
      - Sydney Alvarado
        
        I am sure you could power them.
        
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        December 18, 2019 9:47am
      - skyblue
        
        Climate realists dickhead.
        
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        December 18, 2019 9:56am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Well, I didn’t want to upset everybody, by revealing that mature hardwood forests of southern US were ending up as pellets in the UK
      
      https://theecologist.org/2018/apr/16/hardwood-forests-cut-down-feed-drax-power-plant-channel-4-dispatches-claims
      
      https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-imports-wood-biomass-from-us-for-power-2015-12/?r=AU&IR=T
      
      or that ancient forests in Central Europe, Brazil and even Africa are being destroyed to feed the Jolly Green monster
      
      https://www.fern.org/fileadmin/uploads/fern/Documents/Up%20in%20Flames.pdf
      
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      December 18, 2019 9:29am
      - alloytoo
        
        It’s apparently OK to burn living forests rather than fossilized more energy dense ones?
        
        Irrespective of your opinion on CO2, this is just plain dumb.
        
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        December 18, 2019 10:05am
  - Jules99
    
    If there are any trees left after chopping them down to make paper bags to replace the handy plastic ones that were resuable. And the extra wood required to bring the new low-emission wood burners up to a decent heat like the older less efficient ones.
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:54am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The UK imports wood chips from the USA to burn for electricity.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:04am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Or… we could “burn the witches!” for heat.
    
    I bags be Witchfinder Pursuivant. I’ve gotta list… bwahaha.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:11am
- Yvette
  
  Oldpark,
  … Greenpeace berate the latest granting of an exploration permit to an oil company to explore the Southern Basin
  
  I wonder if anyone ever looked at the legal requirement that Government consult iwi when considering land to be possibly eligible for oil and gas exploration, called “the block”, and when Government, initially outside of Cabinet, made the decision to not allow any further exploration, was that too discussed as required by law, with iwi?
  
  Is it not actionable under the Treaty, that Taranaki iwi should benefit directly or indirectly from oil and particularly gas exploration in that region, but Ngai Tahu in the South Island be denied the same access to the mineral taonga held in stewardship by Paptūānuku and Tangaroa? Does “No land put up, so no discussion” cut it against denying Treaty Article the Second –
  
  The Crown… confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand … the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates, Forests, Fisheries, and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession …
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:45am
Happychappy

So are the Electoral Law Commission going to allow NZ First and there Foundation to use what many voters are saying is dirty money to buy policy like the Fishing Industry or Chinese horse owners in the Racing Industry and other illegal sources, that a bag man in the party picks up according to reliable sources.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/18/951778/peters-plans-to-buck-nz-firsts-post-govt-record
Winston has said when the Foundation came to light that several Lawyers got together to form this Foundation and nothing is illegal well like several others have said why would have a group of people with all that knowledge draft a Foundation the collects Donations away from NZ First if wern’t trying to game the system.
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December 18, 2019 8:27am
- freethinker
  
  If its all legal then lets see the documentation otherwise the perception remains that keeping the Foundation info secret is because it has something to hide that voters would not like and probably reflect in their voting intentions.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:44am
rightoverlabour

sums Winston up.

The Narcissist And Their Smear Campaign Against You.

Quote: “The smear campaign is used, so the narcissist can keep their false self hidden, so you’re the crazy one, the trouble maker and you’re the abuser, everything they did to you, they’ll make out you did to them. So they can walk free, from any responsibility.”

https://wasitme.blog/2019/01/25/narcissist-their-smear-campain-against-you-what-they-do-how-you-can-handle-it/?fbclid=IwAR2POOKCn1WqimCJ4l46D55TqQ2bFgnPqDmxPI0d6TGhtkGOghwIJ7hYFqo
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December 18, 2019 8:38am
mjw

Well cmm, ultimately we are all on the same side – the side of human consciousness. We might argue about this and that, but there is more that unites us that divides us (I hope!).
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December 18, 2019 8:44am
- Tall Man
  
  ardern and labour are trying their best to divide NZ but they are stupid amateurs and NZ will outlast them.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:34am
  - freethinker
    
    In the UK Corbin, Lib Dems and the treacherous Tory defectors all discovered this post election, Karma arrived with a vengeance! Hopefully ditto NZ Coalition of clowns next year.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:47am
    - Tall Man
      
      17% undecided…… Yeah Right.
      
      Quiet Kiwis exist.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:02am
Happychappy

The National Party are calling for answers and rightly so about why it took two weeks for the public to be told a Elilipsy Drug change by Pharmac had been potentially linked to three deaths. The Health Minister David Clark also knew two weeks earlier and has defended Pharmacs decisions during the process and says and says Politicians not be getting involved.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12294578
Clark makes a habit of making up stories on opposition MP’s and the previous Government but can’t stand the heat when put back on him for inept Leadership and deaths under his watch.
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December 18, 2019 8:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Clark still repeats the lie that there was sewage running down the walls at Middlemore Hospital, even though that lie has been debunked:
  
  There is a contingency in funding for repairs to a Middlemore Hospital building for the possibility that more sewage leaks may be found in its walls.
  
  The Scott Building has become a symbol of the poor condition of buildings owned by Manukau District Health Board. It has weathertightness problems including leaks, rot and mould, asbestos issues and sewage leaks. There were two sewage leaks in the building last year.
  
  The Government recently signed off on an additional $11.5 million for repairs to the Scott Building, taking the total for the project to $27.5m.
  
  Manukau District Health Board said that despite the “dramatic language” that had been used around sewage issues at Middlemore Hospital, they were so small that one was a stain that was cleaned up with water.
  
  “There was no sewage spilling into the building, just some staining on the ground within the soil stack duct. To clean it up, engineering had to mix water on it, so the quantity was less than a bucket,” the DHB said in a statement.
  
  Health Minister David Clark said all the stories about sewage had originated from the DHB.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12036681
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:52am
Sacha

A wee bit of mischief: last evening we were having a chat about the forthcoming elections, and one suggestion was that the terrible trio, Key, English and Joyce come in on the National list.
If they were low down the list, and the party vote had to be increased to get them back in to parliament would the voting public play the game?
Speculation of the panic that would cause in Labour ranks was most enjoyed –
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December 18, 2019 8:48am
- Sofia
  
  Sacha, a further “wee bit of mischief”:
  Has no one ever worked out why John Key left politics, and so suddenly?
  Surely it was not just to screw up Nicky Hager’s potential book sales for that next Election.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:05am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Well, there’s certainly been no big story implicating key in some sort of devious Prime Ministerial conduct, as many on the Left suggested there would be. Maybe his reason REALLY was that Bronagh really was sick of living life in a very public bubble, as was suggested at the time.
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:56am
    - Evadne
      
      I also think the Kaikoura earthquake had an impact. You could see on his face afterwards that “I can’t do all this again” look. He was tired.
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:15am
      - lifesgood
        
        The abuse his family got was beyond belief and utterly shameful. Seriously, how much can you take?
        
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        December 18, 2019 11:38am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        All politicians cop abuse. It’s part of the job. It’s even all over this forum today.
        
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        December 18, 2019 5:46pm
  - Sacha
    
    @ Sofia – that came up too, and the consensus was that there was something nasty in the wood work – or if not nasty, slightly ‘off’.
    I thought he was just tired of the whole situation –
    
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    December 18, 2019 3:38pm
rightoverlabour

This is a long read but definitely worth it.

https://electroverse.net/renaissance-in-climate-physics-plus-political-reform/

There are some really fucked up people out there and I am not talking about The Greta, (although her Lined up and shot comment probably suffices)

Quote: “Today’s climate control freaks such as Kennedy, Suzuki and Krugman have been calling for “deniers” to be imprisoned for “heresy”.

Indeed, this week a Danish professor suggests that his personal anxieties could be relieved by military hostilities against heretics. Highly motivated, the professor stated “this is your emission target, it’s not negotiable.”

I am a sceptic not a Denier. Fortunately, truth will prevail.
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December 18, 2019 8:55am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Fortunately, truth will prevail.
  
  But in the interim:
  careers of folks who question the consensus position will be ruined,
  
  poor people will continue to struggle in energy-impoverished countries,
  
  $$$$Billions will be wasted on talk-fests and inefficient solutions to environmental problems,
  
  $$$$Billions will flow into the coffers of an elite group of folk.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:13am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    MW, I believe yesterdsay you mentioned that you were a graduate in Ecology? I thought you did so in Botany?
    
    Please clarify?
    
    At least you have one up on Watts up with that who failed to graduate at all.
    
    Sigh!
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:32am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      And your qualifications are exactly what?
      And why should she clarify her qualifications to a pervert like you anyway? Just go away, …..
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:03am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’m happy to clarify..
        
        stephieboy and a couple of other trolls have spent nearly 4 years on this blog trying to make out that:
        
        * I am mad, deranged, deluded
        * I am racist, alt-right (read NAZI)
        * I am a liar
        
        They have used every opportunity to insinuate that:
        * I am an anti-environmentalist
        
        I do not know if they have succeeded in their aim of ruining my reputation… which is of no great concern to me, but I have taken precautions to protect individuals and groups that sometimes consult me (pro-bono) for ecological advice.
        
        In the long run it matters not a jot to me … but if I lose my police clearance and “reputation”, then:
        * I won’t be able to do literacy recovery work with Maori pupils
        * I won’t be able to do volunteer work with the Blind,
        but I will have more time to potter around my garden.
        
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        December 18, 2019 10:53am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        MW,
        
        * I am mad, deranged, deluded
        * I am racist, alt-right (read NAZI)
        * I am a liar
        
        When did I say those things?
        
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        December 18, 2019 12:22pm
      - sooty
        
        Every day, stephie. Every day!
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:13pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        @stephieboy
        
        Quote”MW,
        
        * I am mad, deranged, deluded
        * I am racist, alt-right (read NAZI)
        * I am a liar
        
        When did I say those things?”
        
        Fuck, are you so stupid that you don’t remember what you post? Your never ending abuse of Maggy is well known … I’d shut the fuck up and slink away to a dark hole somewhere before engaging in an argument you are sure to lose…
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:19pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Any you? From Mr Ed’s School?
      
      4 1
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      December 18, 2019 10:07am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You seem to be unfamiliar with how the degree system works or even what a discipline like Botany entails.
      
      I have a BSc degree from Massey University
      (My major subject was Botany (3rd year papers)…but that included papers/lectures on ecology, taxonomy, anatomy, genetics, physiology, biochemistry)
      
      I have a 1st Class BSc hons in Botany from Victoria University of Wellington……which included study in Plant ecology, plant biogeography, plant anatomy, plant systematics, plant pathology, biochemistry, genetics and plant physiology.
      My research project was on the Ecology of salt marsh vegetation at Pauatahanui inlet
      
      I have a PhD in Botany from VUW.
      My thesis was on Secondary succession in the Marlborough Sounds
      (That’s an ecological subject… plants in their environment)
      
      I have an incomplete BA. degree, with 2 level one papers in Korean ….(perhaps if VUW hadn’t cancelled it’s courses in Korean Language, I would have completed it).
      
      Now is there anything else you are desperate to know about me?
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:10am
      - freethinker
        
        Stephie would like to know which Malls you visit and when and do you have any Goats he could admire.
        
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        December 18, 2019 10:59am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’m a regular down at Kaiti Mall
        https://teaomaori.news/gisborne-locals-protest-push-pokies-community
        
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        December 18, 2019 11:32am
      - lifesgood
        
        MW…respect!!
        
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        December 18, 2019 11:40am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        MW, imprerssive! As I stated you certainly go more thn one up on Anthony Powell.
        
        Maybe you should consider offer to running his blog to give it some more credibility and maybe sanity!
        
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        December 18, 2019 12:25pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        As I informed you yesterday…
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/12/general_debate_17_december_2019.html/comment-page-1#comment-2609763
        
        Anthony Powell is dead.
        
        I do not think one of Britain’s finest novelists had time to blog.
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:48pm
      - Ruahine
        
        A very impressive CV Maggie. Well Done.
        
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        December 18, 2019 10:05pm
    - Komata
      
      SB@0932
      
      Now that Maggie has graciously told us her academic qualifications, it’s YOUR turn.
      
      Exactly what are YOUR qualifications and from which institutions?
      
      Your turn, so put up.
      
      We’re all waitng.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:18am
- The King
  
  Religion of Climate change
  Religion of Transgenderism
  Religion of homosexuality
  Religion of Holocaustianity
  Religion of Diversity
  Religion of peace
  
  Deny any of these religions and be imprisoned.
  
  Whenever people disagree of anything in general there will always be a chance of conflict. So what’s these ‘professors’ solution you may ask? well prevent anyone from having a different opinion of course! if everyone has the same opinions there will be no conflict and everything will perfect!
  
  Some real big brained Plato’s and Aristotle’s in the university’s these days isn’t there?
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:10am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    The King , in imminent threat of being charged with any of them?
    
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    December 18, 2019 12:26pm
  - pb
    
    Hate crime legislation being prepared for you my friend. Bolshevik’s already tried this out. It works really well. Anyone suspected of thought crime against the Soviet state can be summarily executed.
    
    Believe in nothing, and you will believe in anything.
    
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    December 18, 2019 3:04pm
- pb
  
  I’m starting to realise the climate fear mongering is only one front amongst many. Its a long drawn out campaign to keep people in an existential dread. Frightened people are more easily manipulated. Media (and others) have a long shopping list of topics to keep us and themselves in terror. It wasn’t that long ago that Y2K was going to pull aeroplanes from the sky. Scarcity and fear. What a crock. How many of the last 30 years of warring in the middle east were false flags. This whole terrorism gig a setup. Woah
  
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  December 18, 2019 2:59pm
tedbear

I wonder how many people will buy, give and/or receive stuff made out of the planet warming oil/plastic this Christmas.

Think synthetic clothing and shoes, made from oil.
Think surfboards, X-boxes, mobile phones, i-pads, all manner of sporting goods like tennis racquets, sunglasses, ski equipment, to name a few, the list is endless.
Perhaps some will give cash instead. Banknotes, another product of plastic.
The next Lotto winner might spend some of it on a new electric car. Well to make the tyres you need oil. Much of the componentry is plastic, like dashboard, steering wheel, lights and covers, window frames, wiring and tubing.

Will all the Climate Change activists refuse presents made from plastic?
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December 18, 2019 8:59am
- Inandout
  
  tedbear, we got couriered some outdoor seat cushions recently and they were individually wrapped in clear plastic, within heavier plastic bags. Plastic is so handy.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:34am
  - tedbear
    
    Oh dear Inandout, under the Jacinda gummint such cushions will in future have to be wrapped in something else as those single use plastic bags will soon be outlawed. Unless you as the end user promise and guarantee to recycle them and not biff them in your garbage disposal bin.
    
    Incidently, I have a goodly stash of the just-been-banned-single-use plastic shopping bags. The used ones we’ve used over and over perhaps dozens of times, definitely not single use. They have umpteen uses including putting fresh fish in for the freezer.
    
    I hope you look after your outdoor cushions as I imagine they’re largely made of plastic themselves. If sometime in the future they need replacing, they too will be known as ‘single use’.
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:43am
Maggie Pie

A friend txts:

“The Warehouse has just landed ‘Jacinda Dolls’ in time for Xmas. The doll suddenly appears and hugs you when something bad happens, but otherwise can’t be found”
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December 18, 2019 8:59am
- Rich Prick
  
  Are they dashboard mountable? I’d only be interested if the bobble was authentic.
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:38am
rightoverlabour

Those following the Trump Circus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZFH0eLIEpA
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December 18, 2019 9:01am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Read the letter.
  
  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/17/donald-trump-blasts-impeachment-as-illegal-partisan-attempted-coup/
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:16am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Coup?
    
    Like this one?
    
    https://www.ledevoir.com/monde/ameriques/566777/la-bolivie-fait-face-a-un-coup-d-etat-pas-ordinaire
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:43am
  - SGA
    
    Exactly how is it “illegal”? What laws have been broken?
    
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    December 18, 2019 9:45am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It’s from Breitbart – don’t expect any facts.
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:33am
      - Tall Man
        
        Much like a coalition “news release” or one of your pithy comments.
        
        9 2
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        December 18, 2019 10:50am
    - Ed Snack
      
      One illegality is the attempt to usurp the position of the courts by declaring that withholding information pending a court determination on whether that withholding is a suitable exercise of executive privilege.
      
      It’s akin to declaring a defendant guilty because they attempted to defend themselves. Executive privilege is a well established doctrine, and the Trump administration is well within its rights to claim such subject to a court determination.
      
      It is unconstitutional therefore illegal for Congress to disallow appeals to the judiciary.
      
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      December 18, 2019 1:38pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No one has ‘disallowed’ any appeals. How would that even happen?
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:50pm
      - SGA
        
        If it were as you said, then the whole process would be waiting because the White House would have asked the Supreme Court to adjudicate on its “unconstitutionality”, wouldn’t it?
        
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        December 18, 2019 3:58pm
- Scott
  
  Right over labour – people should read the letter that Pres Trump wrote to Nancy Pelosi, the Democrat leader of the House of Representatives.
  
  It’s a long letter but easy to read over it six pages. But the gist of the matter is that the Democrats and the media have never accepted the result of the 2016 election.
  
  This is fatal to democracy when one side cannot accept when the other side wins the election! How is democracy and government possible? How can the president govern when Congress is in open warfare against him?
  
  I think the Democrats should pause and reflect. They should stop making politics their religion. They should develop a sense of proportion. And they should stop hating on whoever is the Republican president of the United States.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:38am
- freethinker
  
  Mitch completely demolished Schumer and Shifty Schiff whilst showing their their duplicity of questions and processes when impeaching clinton that they want to change for Donald . I hope the senate publicly exposes in any Senate hearing the corruption and criminality of many democrats and civil servants in the Washington swamp followed by them all receiving substantial jail time.
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:09am
Scott

An interesting question in the ongoing saga of undoing the 2016 election by impeaching and removing Pres Donald Trump.

Now that the impeachment case is about to go to the Senate, Republican leader of the Senate Mitch McConnell has said that they will have a short trial and not turn the Senate trial into a circus.

Mitch McConnell is a canny experience politician who understands how to do these things properly. However I do wonder about whether it would be good to have a long and expanded trial? Perhaps the Democrats could be allowed to call their witnesses in exchange for the Republicans being allowed to call theirs?

So the Democrats could call trump advisors like John Bolton to testify. But in return Hunter Biden would appear on the witness stand.

I must say I would like to see that. I would like to see Hunter explain how he got to be on the board of a Ukrainian energy company with no experience in energy or the Ukraine? I would like to know how many board meetings he showed up for? I would like to know how he thought he could command a salary of at least $50,000 per month for being on the board?

These are not idle questions but they go to the heart of the impeachment matter. Was Donald Trump justified in asking the Ukrainian Pres to investigate corruption in the Ukraine particularly with regard to Hunter Biden and Joe Biden? If it could be shown that the presidents concerns were merited and there was corruption involving the Biden’s then the impeachment case disappears.

As a side benefit I would like to see Joe Biden continue to answer questions about his son’s involvement in the Ukraine? Particularly if it can be shown that the whole thing was corrupt. I would enjoy the spectacle of sleepy Joe trying to justify his incredibly corrupt behaviour. 🙂
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December 18, 2019 9:02am
- SGA
  
  I would like to see Hunter explain how he got to be on the board of a Ukrainian energy company with no experience in energy or the Ukraine?
  
  Without defending Hunter Biden or Burisma in particular, you seem mistaken about who sits on the boards of major companies. Jenny Shipley, for example, has no specific expertise in day to day business of each of the companies with which she has been involved. If you look at the boards of major NZ companies (e.g., Fonterra, Genesis, Mercury, say) you will find a mix of people – some with expertise in the specific industry, others because they have general useful skills, knowledge, or connections (e.g., has done business in China, say). For example, a couple of years ago. Burisma appointed to their board Joseph Cofer Black, former director of the Counterterrorism Center of the Central Intelligence Agency (1999–2002) in the George W. Bush administration and former Ambassador-at-Large for counter-terrorism (2002–2004). Among other things, Black is also Chairman of Total Intelligence Solutions (Total Intel), a private intelligence gathering group – note, no specific background in energy, but he brings other things to the mix.
  I am not saying that Hunter Biden is innocent or guilty, but the idea that all members of such boards must have specific expertise in that area is just wrong. Hunter Biden also sat on the board of directors for Amtrak years ago, and I don’t think he knows anything about trains.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:32am
  - Scott
    
    SGA – fair enough as a general comment. But specifically with regard to Hunter Biden. Does anyone think that he would be sitting on the board of a Ukrainian energy company if his name wasn’t Biden? If his father wasn’t the vice president of the United States specifically charged with looking after the relationship between America and Ukraine? If his father wasn’t the person deciding about the billions of dollars of American aid to Ukraine?
    
    The whole thing stinks! Even far left people think the whole scenario is incredibly corrupt. It should be investigated. And that is what Trump was trying to do. And for that the Democrats are impeaching him?!
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:48am
    - SGA
      
      SGA – fair enough as a general comment
      
      Good, because your belief that everyone on a company’s board must have explicit skills in that area is sadly mistaken.
      
      Does anyone think that he would be sitting on the board of a Ukrainian energy company if his name wasn’t Biden?
      
      I am sure that Hunter Biden’s connections have helped “grease the wheels” of his entire career (it is a widespread phenomenon in business and politics, I imagine). It may have helped him get into Yale Law School, then his positions with a major holding bank, the US Dept of Commerce, the Vice-Chairman of Amtrak, and a national law firm. It probably helped when he co-founded a lobbyist firm, and co-founded various investment and venture capital firms (I’m sure it was a bonus when those were doing business with China). According to the Financial Times, it was through one of the investment companies that the connection to Burisma started ( the article isn’t flattering to Biden, btw – https://www.ft.com/content/3904f888-e8ef-11e9-a240-3b065ef5fc55 ).
      
      You may be right, he may indeed be as crooked as a dog’s hind leg, but exploiting your “name” to get ahead isn’t, in and of itself, evidence of corruption.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:44am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Probably helped him to get noticed officially by the Latvians in regard to suspected money laundering transactions from Burisma regarding pretend loans that travel via Latvia to Cyprus where the funds get lent onwards to entities that seem to have disappeared.
        
        Probably also helped that Joe Biden in his official capacity meet with the ultimate owner of Burisma just two weeks before Hunter was appointed.
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:43pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Scott, I posted this yesterday that you may of overlooked,
  
  “The Invention of the Conspiracy Theory on Biden and Ukraine”
  
  How a conservative dark-money group that targeted Hillary Clinton in 2016 spread the discredited story that may lead to Donald Trump’s impeachment.
  
  “Anyone trying to track the Ukrainian conspiracy stories that were eventually embraced by President Trump is likely to get mired in the same echo chamber of right-wing news purveyors that misinformed voters in 2016. A pivotal source of the allegations against the Bidens, for instance, is the Government Accountability Institute, a Florida-based opposition-research operation that was founded by the former Trump political adviser Stephen Bannon—the same conservative nonprofit that ginned up questionable stories about the Clintons during the last Presidential campaign…
  
  Thus, during the last Presidential campaign, under the auspices of the Government Accountability Institute, Schweizer published the best-selling book “Clinton Cash.” In a novel arrangement, he doled out negative scoops about the Clintons from it in advance to a variety of mainstream news outlets, including the Times. The paper disclosed its arrangement with the book’s author to its readers, and maintained that it independently verified and expanded on the information. But when it ran a front-page story derived from the book on April 24, 2015, the Times stirred controversy and criticism, including from its own public editor.”…
  
  https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-invention-of-the-conspiracy-theory-on-biden-and-ukraine
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:35am
- trout
  
  The Biden family also found other ways to enrich themselves: https://video.foxnews.com/v/6116312324001?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips
  It may well be that this behaviour is ‘par for the course’ for American politicians.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:50am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    powerful stuff.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:28am
- Fletch
  
  What’s funny is that Schiff, having run roughshod over the whole circus in the House, is now demanding witnesses he wants to appear for the Senate trial. The man has no shame whatsoever.
  
  The Democrats have totally destroyed the impeachment process and harmed America and the Constitution permanently.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:56am
  - fernglas
    
    Those witnesses he is asking for are the ones that the White House refused to allow to be called to give evidence in the earlier proceedings, but who seem to possess relevant information, whether for or against Trump. It seems to me that clarification of the merits of the case requires all witnesses with relevant knowledge of the facts to assist the proceedings by giving evidence. That should take care of any suggestions that Trump is obstructing and that the Dem’s are cherry-picking.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:18am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I can’t see a senate trial hearing witnesses such as Biden while not hearing witnesses to the actual behaviour that is the subject of the impeachment charges.
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:43am
      - fernglas
        
        That’s why I used the word “relevant”. It’s a concept which seems alien to this process.
        
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        December 18, 2019 11:07am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        “Look, squirrel!”
        Seems relevant.
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:04pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Indeed, hearing witnesses with actual first hand knowledge of the call to the Ukrainian President would be a good idea, and a change from Schiff’s parade of hearsay.
        
        The GOP in the Senate should just use the same rules that Schiff did, that would be quite fair would it not ? That way the Democrats can propose what “witnesses” they want to appear but the GOP has complete control over who does appear and who can question them and on what subjects. Sauce for the goose and all that….
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:48pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Dems are committing lawfare. It would be correct for the Senate to acknowledge the Dems conduct and minimise dealings with the improper proceedings. The people need a rest too.
  
  I expect some vigorous action to take down the bad actors in the new year.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:14am
- Fletch
  
  Rudy Guiliani has been over to the Ukraine and done some investigating of his own. It doesn’t look good…
  
  Witness Viktor Shokin:
  
  Holds doc’s proving money laundering by Burisma & Biden’s.
  
  Fired due to VP Biden’s threat not to release $1B in vital US aid.
  
  Shokin’s med records show he was poisoned, died twice, and was revived.
  
  Lots of heads will roll in Ukraine if this opens up. pic.twitter.com/1W1OgkumXA
  
  — Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) December 15, 2019
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:57am
  - SGA
    
    Fletch, I’ve been waiting for Fox News to be making a really big deal about this, but I haven’t been able to find anything?
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:14am
    - Batman
      
      Weird huh? It’s almost as if even Fox has reached it’s limit and now Rudy is having to go on OAN to peddle his bullshit.
      
      But that’s what you get for taking ‘evidence’ from corrupt and disgraced former officials.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:34am
      - Tall Man
        
        Come on Batman, if you eliminated the “corrupt and disgraced”… who would be asking the questions?
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:11pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Like all the evidence etc from McCabe, Comey, Yates, etc ? Like that you mean ? Or like Yovanovich the Ambassador interfering in internal Ukrainian affairs by instructing the Ukrainian prosecutors just which people were to be protected from scrutiny – so they could continue their corruption unhindered ?
        
        It wasn’t just the Ukrainians though, the Latvians also noticed the money laundering by Hunter Biden and Burisma. And a troll through financial records in Cyprus might be instructive as well.
        
        Of course if everything the Biden’s did was above board, they shouldn’t be the least bit scared of an investigation should they. That’s what Trump was told about the intrusive investigations in 2016 and ongoing.
        
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        December 18, 2019 1:54pm
      - Batman
        
        Then why is Moscow Mitch so scared of a proper trial in the Senate?
        
        Let’s get everything out in the open. And I mean everything, including Jared’s WhatsApp messages with MBS, tax returns, and Trump’s calls with Putin, Giuliani, and his ambassadors.
        
        Let’s see where the dirt lies.
        
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        December 18, 2019 2:19pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Fletch , phooey !
    
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/viktor-shokin-ukraine-prosecutor-trump-biden-hunter-joe-investigation-impeachment-a9147001.html
    
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    December 18, 2019 12:31pm
- freethinker
  
  Totally agree as such a trial would also show similar corruption of same people with China!!
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:10am
igm

Why are these feral brats not in captivity?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/118259421/levin-teenager-charged-with-murder-for-home-invasion-on-90yearold-woman
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December 18, 2019 9:14am
- The King
  
  Imagine living 90 years only to be beaten to death by diversity.
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:13am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  They are from the Protected Classes (TM).
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:13am
Maggie Pie

My partners mum tweets….

‘what is it with old female teachers & schoolboys these days?’
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December 18, 2019 9:23am
- sooty
  
  Old female teachers need love too!
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:44am
- rightoverlabour
  
  What I don’t understand in this whole thing is that most 15yr old guys would jump at any opportunity to shag anything that let them. Why is shagging a 37yr old such a crime, when they are shagging school girls that are well below the age of consent? And as I posted yesterday, in Europe this would not be an issue. Further, why is it that most people who comment on 15 Yr old boys psychosexuality are women, who have no idea on how 15 yr old guys think with respect to sex?
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I think it was just the ‘age difference’ that worried Ma.
    Like she said, “It would be like me seducing say Ian Lees-Galloway in the back of the Merc. Imagine what the residents in the Village would say if they saw me”
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:06am
    - Tall Man
      
      I think the choice of fella would be the issue. Plus, he’s a woke nancy that wouldn’t have a clue how to deal with a “real” woman 🙂
      
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      December 18, 2019 10:47am
  - stigie
    
    Oh dear, did the poor boys got trauma counciling and ongoing support for the indecent acts that were put upon them..? //
    
    8 2
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    December 18, 2019 10:22am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Yeah it’s nuts, and it’s happening because the left can’t admit that there are significant differences in psychology between men and women regarding sex for very sound evolutionary reasons – sperm is almost zero cost but eggs/gestation ridiculously expensive. Willing boy, willing teacher is no crime – the boys are unlikely to ever feel bad about it, men having evolved to feel happy about shag basically anything they are more likely to take pride in it even in later years.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:34am
    - Surely Knott
      
      So willing 40 year old female teacher and willing 15 year old boy is ok? But willing 40 year old male teacher – with willing 15 year old girl would be a crime? Because their eggs are more valuable? And what about willing 40 year old female teacher and 12 year old boy? 11? 50 year old teacher? 11 year old girl? What specific law change would you propose?
      
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      December 18, 2019 5:48pm
  - freethinker
    
    If you apply this and to some extent I agree then it should also apply to 37 year old Male Teachers shagging 15 year old schoolgirls.
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:13am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Yup, no argument there. I have teenage daughters, now both over the age of consent. If a 37 yr old male was shagging them at 15, I’d be having a word, but I don’t think I’d be calling the cops if it was consensual. I think the biggest issue is that parents don’t talk to their kids about sexuality and that society in general has become very permissive.
      
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      December 18, 2019 12:06pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      I think the general rule of thumb for creepiness is half your age + 7 . 37 year old OK with a 25 year old. Not a 15 year old. A 15 year old girl who shagged a 37year old is highly likely to regret it years later, much less chance of that for a 15 year old boy.
      
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      December 18, 2019 2:04pm
  - peterwn
    
    The concern is with power and corruption. The pupil would generally realise it is a no-no but may well succumb if something like a sports team inclusion or an internal assessment grading is in the balance. It does not matter whether the pupil allegedly ‘enjoys’ it, it is the teacher’s job to avoid such situations, even to take proactive steps. Also parents expect schools to be a ‘safe place’ for their kids.
    
    A secondary school principal was disciplined by the Teachers Council for not taking proper action in such a case and tried to appeal the decision without success. The amazing thing here was the principal was not given the boot from the profession.
    
    Things turn on the age of the pupil. If the pupil is under 18, it is a criminal matter and was treated as such in that case. If the pupil is over 18 it is not a criminal matter, but a serious disciplinary matter which must be reported to the Teachers Council who will in pretty well all cases cancel registration.
    In UK it is a criminal matter where this happens between teacher and pupil regardless of age or similar cases eg coaches, scout leaders, etc. (presumably if the victim is still at school).
    NZ should follow suit but PPTA would probably kick up a stink.
    
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    December 18, 2019 2:54pm
- dave_c_
  
  Perhaps the same thing that is wrong with old male teachers and schoolgirls.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:51am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, it’s the female teachers abusing boys these days. I read about another one only yesterday.
  
  https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10559756/cops-sex-scandal-married-teacher-five-pupils-top-south-african-school/
  
  A recently married teacher who “romped” with 5 pupils. You can see a photo of her in the story surrounded by young teen water polo players she is supposed to be coaching.
  
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  December 18, 2019 9:59am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I know a youngish teacher who has found it hard to trust herself around mature college males. She has taken active avoidance measures.
    
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    December 18, 2019 10:17am
    - Tall Man
      
      Chastity belt?
      
      6 1
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      December 18, 2019 10:44am
      - sooty
        
        The pill!
        
        3 0
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        December 18, 2019 1:07pm
- Tall Man
  
  37 is old?
  
  Jeez Maggie, that’s a bit harsh………..
  
  4 1
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  December 18, 2019 10:22am
  - The King
    
    For a woman it is, at 37 she’s lost 97% of her eggs.
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:26am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I bet a lot of the other 15 year old boys were very jealous of the two that were getting some action.
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:04pm
curry4me

AOCs lemonade stand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI5pn-jYIgk
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December 18, 2019 9:32am
curry4me

The USMCA has a way to go yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieDEc9fgG_Y
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December 18, 2019 9:33am
curry4me

Martin Sellner, and the Identitarian movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0lzPhAVRE4
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December 18, 2019 9:34am
Random T Person

Bit annoyed with the rahui over the Whakatane coast; apparently it is the local iwi’s coast. Last I heard nobody elected them and they own neither the sea nor the beaches.
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December 18, 2019 9:46am
- OTGO
  
  That’s an interesting point. What will happen to you if you go and catch some snapper or harvest some shellfish for your family dinner on that coast? And you are a white NZ’er?
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Um, nothing.
    
    5 6
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    December 18, 2019 10:44am
    - Tall Man
      
      I suggest you go and give it a go.
      
      The reaction may surprise you sunshine.
      
      Try suggesting to a maori that a “disabled park” is for those with a disability when they lazily park there.
      
      Annnd before my friendly mod steps in…. I am also aware that people other than maori abuse those parks but having experienced that little thrill I was using it as an indicator of a potential response for “contravening” a local rahui.
      
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      December 18, 2019 11:25am
  - The King
    
    In Pataua in the 90’s local Maoris and Whites used to block the road to stop asians gathering cockles, they would come to Pataua in mini buses with 13 at a time and absolutely rape the beds. 1 Bucket once a week was the local code.
    
    Old lady Mahanga use to sit on a porch with a shotgun, her house was first on the road.
    
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    December 18, 2019 11:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      https://www.gettinglost.co.nz/pataua/
      
      I had a word a few years ago with an Asian family scouring a rock and wiping it clean of mussels, regardless of size. They were completely unaware that we have a limit here and once in Asia I saw a bowl of mussels go past me on the way to a table and there must have a hundred in the bowl they were so tiny.
      
      Often ignorance is the reason, but not always so I full applaud the work our volunteer fisheries inspector do.
      
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      December 18, 2019 1:06pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      That Pataua just North of Whangarei? Nice little settlement and not that far to go to get to it.
      
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      December 18, 2019 2:00pm
Chris2

“Boris Johnson has banned ministers from attending the World Economic Forum in Davos next month as he styled himself the leader of a “people’s government” of the UK.

A senior Tory figure said it would be inappropriate for ministers to attend the elite gathering in the Swiss ski resort in the early weeks of a new government. “Our focus is on delivering for the people, not champagne with billionaires,” he said.
”
https://www.ft.com/content/1f688a3a-20f2-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

And who from the NZ Government, might I ask, is attending?
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December 18, 2019 10:04am
- Tall Man
  
  And if you received an answer would it be the truth?
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:08am
- Cobolt24
  
  What has the World Economic Forum actually achieved anyway?
  Next year’s summit is just talks about climate change.
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:01am
hullkiwi

Remember a couple of weeks ago and the international test results of 15 year old students?

Well it seems Australia didn’t do to well either in maths.

At the weekend there was a news item about how classes are bring run in Sydney to teach children how to learn calculation techniques in mathematics using the ancient calculator called the abacus. The reality being that over use of calculators has led children to not being able to do the basics of complex arithmetic.

The other take away from the news item was the class was being led by an Asian Australian and all the children in the class were Asian.

So once again, it is not being racist, but a reality that those from the Asian nations are prepared to put in the efforts to learn, while those of European and indigenous backgrounds seem intent to turn our backs on learning and education.
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December 18, 2019 10:12am
Hugh Pavletich

UNITED STATES …

US housing starts rise more than expected, with permits at a 12-1/2-year high … CNBC

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/17/us-housing-starts-building-permits-november-2019.html

KEY POINTS

• U.S. homebuilding increased more than expected in November and permits for future home construction surged to a 12-1/2-year high.
• Lower mortgage rates continued to boost the housing market and support the broader economy.
• Housing starts rose 3.2% to 1.365 million units last month, with single-family construction racing to a 10-month high.
• Activity in the volatile multifamily sector increased for a second straight month, the Commerce Department said.
.
.
US Single-Family Building Permits Reach 12-Year High … Zerohedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/us-single-family-building-permits-reach-12-year-high
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December 18, 2019 10:25am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  … Access earlier reports …
  
  UNITED STATES … Nationally new lots (sections) median price $49,500 …. National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) reports …
  
  Lot Values Hit Record Highs … Natalia Sineavskaia … U.S National Association of Home Builders
  
  http://eyeonhousing.org/2019/11/lot-values-hit-record-highs/
  
  According to NAHB’s analysis of the Census Bureau’s Survey of Construction (SOC) data, median single-family lot prices outpaced inflation once again (4.4% vs 2.4%) and reached new record high in 2018, with half of the lots selling at or above $49,500. The most dramatic rise in lot values is observed in the West South Central division where median lot values more than doubled since the housing boom years. … read more via hyperlink above …
  .
  .
  4 out of 5 Americans say there is a housing affordability crisis (NAHB Survey) … Mortgage Professionals of America Magazine
  
  https://www.mpamag.com/market-update/4-out-of-5-americans-say-there-is-a-housing-affordability-crisis-177571.aspx
  .
  .
  2019 15th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
  
  http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
  
  Housing Affordability Ratings … Median Multiples … All Markets
  
  Australia 5.7
  Canada 4.0
  China (Hong Kong) 20.9
  Ireland 3.7
  New Zealand 6.5
  Singapore 4.6
  United Kingdom 4.8
  United States 3.5
  
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  December 18, 2019 10:27am
KevO'Brien

Pres. Trump’s 6 page letter to Nancy Pelosi–
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/you-have-found-nothing-trump-warns-dems-theyre-playing-dangerous-game

“More due process was afforded to those accused in the Salem Witch Trials.”
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December 18, 2019 10:31am
- SGA
  
  “More due process was afforded to those accused in the Salem Witch Trials.”
  
  Well… I can’t see it, but if you really think so…
  
  “The Salem witch trials were a series of hearings and prosecutions of people accused of witchcraft in colonial Massachusetts between February 1692 and May 1693. More than two hundred people were accused. Thirty were found guilty, nineteen of whom were executed by hanging (fourteen women and five men). One other man, Giles Corey, was pressed to death for refusing to plead, and at least five people died in jail.”
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
  
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  December 18, 2019 11:08am
- Stephieboy2
  
  “More due process was afforded to those accused in the Salem Witch Trials.”
  
  Garbage!
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:33pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes indeed stephie; the “process” followed by the Democrats certainly has been, as you put it, “Garbage!”. Trump exposes that by noting the first call for him to be impeached came a mere nineteen minutes after he took the oath of office. This has plainly been a political hit-job by the bitter, twisted Democrats.
    
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    December 18, 2019 12:40pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Try that standard in a NZ Court and see what the Judge has to say.
    Faceless accusations and hearsay are not evidence. When that was allowed execution was expected shortly afterwards. It has been subsequently deprecated as a just practice.
    
    Is it being promoted by the Left as a way of removing those they hate? Injustice leads to further injustice in a tit for tat scenario. Otherwise its one sided. The outcome is civil war.
    
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    December 18, 2019 2:57pm
    - SGA
      
      Oh dear, “sedition”, “civil war”, “overthrow”, “coup”, democracy as we know it is clearly on the precipice.
      
      Trump will be impeached, the Republican dominated Senate will do everything to can to prevent people such as Bolton and Mulvaney appearing, Trump will be acquitted, life will go on (and Trump may even win next year’s election).
      
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      December 18, 2019 4:09pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Democrcy in the USA is certainly on the precipice.
        
        2 1
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        December 18, 2019 7:31pm
      - SGA
        
        Sorry, but I think that you have been fed some melodramatic nonsense. As I say, Trump will be impeached, the Senate will protect his buddies, Trump will be acquitted, life will go on.
        
        2 2
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        December 18, 2019 7:44pm
- MCos
  
  Here’s the full text of the letter with some annotations disputing his various accusations.
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/17/us/politics/trump-pelosi-letter.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share via @NYTimes
  
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  December 18, 2019 2:02pm
  - Batman
    
    I read the letter on the WH website and I can scarcely believe it’s real.
    
    It’s an incoherent rant, placed onto inappropriately official letterhead.
    
    Thankfully, a majority of the world’s population will see it for what it is. Total nonsense.
    
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    December 18, 2019 2:17pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Next you’ll say you’re appalled.
      
      Having had some legal training and spent more time in the VUW law library than formally required I developed a reasonable of knowledge of the laws of evidence and interest in jurisprudence.
      
      Trump has just re-iterated he hasn’t had a fair go and the raging Dems have busted every known rule leading to justice.
      They are the ones out of control. Their conduct could be considered seditious.
      
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      December 18, 2019 3:10pm
      - Batman
        
        Appalled? Nah, just amused at your level of devotion to a shouty moron.
        
        He wrote a nutty letter as if it was some sort of powerful defence.
        
        2 6
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        December 18, 2019 3:28pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘He wrote’, Batman? I doubt he could even read a six-page letter (no pictures), let alone write one.
        
        1 6
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        December 18, 2019 3:34pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I have no devotion to Trump per se. I respect him as duly elected President as I would do for any other. My devotion is to God and to the rule of law and Justice.
        
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        December 18, 2019 7:36pm
Cobolt24

Venezuela Christmas decorations light up anger over blackouts:
http://news.trust.org/item/20191217132900-uw49o
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December 18, 2019 10:55am
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/12/workplace-discrimination-towards-muslim-women-rising-in-last-6-8-weeks-anjum-rahman.html

I’d like to see a report on how single european women are treated in most muslim countries.

Hell, I even think the local women don’t do too well in most of those countries but hey, come to NZ and then tell us off, we’ve got brpad shoulders.
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December 18, 2019 11:09am
- The King
  
  I can report for you.
  
  They get beheaded on video..
  
  https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/family-urges-public-not-to-watch-scandinavian-tourist-decapitation-video/news-story/cb8d0318432609d83a5da743c025ab27
  
  Ive seen the video and its the most brutal thing I’ve seen so far.
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:33pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I doubt it will be as “brutal” as the infighting that will consume the labour party next year when they get shown the arse card….
    
    No disrespect to the young Scandinavians intended.
    
    5 4
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    December 18, 2019 1:00pm
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Tall Man, you response triviliase the ghastly incident and mocks the dead women!
      
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      December 18, 2019 7:05pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Stephieboy:
        
        It’s difficult to reconcile your comment to Tall Man with your own comment regarding a more local scandal:
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        
        The sex allegations that are the subject of a KB moral and wowser frenzy. Merely a typhoon in a teacup. Maybe like the same” typhoon in a teacup” over Comrade Trump and his sexcapades! LOL
        
        [Mod – nice piece of victim-blaming stephie. Don’t go complaining if it provokes a response or two]
        
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        December 18, 2019 9:00pm
Tall Man

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/opinion/mike-yardley-lack-of-parental-control-contributing-to-teenage-fleeing-drivers/

Wise words indeed.
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December 18, 2019 11:19am
Jack5

Law lecturer suggests the Government buy White Island from the Buttle family.

And if they don’t want to sell? Well, I guess, seize it, Lenin style.

The suggestions is that it be turned into a reserve so access can be controlled, but you can bet it would be gifted/settled/handed to Whakatane Maori.

Some day, with future robotics or other techniques, the sulphur might again be mined. The island has got that potential value as well as being a tourist hazard and trap.

Hold tight, Buttles!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118248370/whakaariwhite-island-should-be-bought-off-buttle-family-and-managed-by-doc-and-iwi-law-expert-says
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December 18, 2019 11:40am
- KevO'Brien
  
  White Island’ s past history put paid to mining. Sulphur + water + heat –> sulphuric acid and other nasties. That acid is highly corrosive.
  
  I am not opposed to the Govt buying the Island. Access needs to be severely restricted. It once was, but people have got complacent. Unlike the large volcanoes above ground we cannot measure the distortion of magma and other potential emissions. Some rumblings can be heard but they have proved inadequate to safeguard against the unexpected dangerous coughing and spluttering of that volcano.
  
  What can’t be detected until too late has to be regarded as unsafe. That was the same issue with Pike River. It was known to be gas producer and needed to be an open mine for safety. It may be human to measure and take risks but its bad judgement to expose others to your willingness to expose them to danger.
  
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  December 18, 2019 3:29pm
- sooty
  
  I wonder what their rates bill is?
  
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  December 18, 2019 3:44pm
- godruelf
  
  Did the tour a couple of years ago and got the impression that the Govt had tried to buy it in the past but owners weren’t keen and eventually some other arrangement was reached with DOC
  
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  December 18, 2019 5:28pm
gump

It would appear that another ‘respected’ member of the business establishment enjoys watching child porn.

Fortunately the Australians don’t have ridiculous laws about name suppression. So the Herald can report that the alleged offender is Sir Ron Brierley.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12294884
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December 18, 2019 11:46am
- Tall Man
  
  If convicted, I suppose he will be joining those “respected” labour party deviants that seem to get their jollies sexually assaulting young people.
  
  At least the Aussies don’t pussyfoot around like our cops seem to do when the lying labour party is involved.
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:55pm
- chaos
  
  I expect we will be hearing of a lot more high profile business, celebs and politicians being caught
  
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  December 18, 2019 2:12pm
  - sooty
    
    Who was it that made him a Sir, like Cullen?
    
    2 0
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    December 18, 2019 3:46pm
    - alwyn
      
      1988 New Years Honours.
      I’ll leave it to you to work out who was in Office at the time.
      
      3 1
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      December 18, 2019 3:56pm
    - Tall Man
      
      4th labour government, 1988.
      
      4 1
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      December 18, 2019 4:11pm
- godruelf
  
  Has he got Australian Citizenship or is there potential for him to be coming back here on Conair
  
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  December 18, 2019 5:20pm
Jack5

Simon Bridges could be sticking his neck out a bit far in defending unregistered adventure tourism operators.

Radio NZ reports this on Bridges, talking about White Island:

Bridges said it was “staggering” that the minister was casting doubt on adventure tourism operators.

“He’s implying that those who aren’t registered are unsafe and operating in New Zealand. I have no reason to believe that is true,” he said.

“On the face of it, if you look at the rules we have in place in this area – white water rafting, parachuting and the like – I think it is a safe regime. There may be questions post White Island.”
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December 18, 2019 11:46am
- rightoverlabour
  
  My understanding of the “registered” issue is the work safe has not being communicating properly with the helicopter companies. Now why would that surprise anyone?
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:44pm
- Tall Man
  
  Good for him.
  
  Thrill seeking may have a price beyond what many would like to pay but that doesn’t mean it should be stopped or punished.
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Adventure tourism will always be unsafe for some. I shudder to think how I would be if I repeated my youthful tramp to Cone Hut in the Tararuas.
  The basic rough and tumble of bush or water rafting with supervision is reasonable. Some misadventure will occur but restricting the opportunities for people to test themselves will cause other harm.
  
  White Island is more sight seeing in the presence of an acid tempered sleeping giant. Not a physical challenge but risking acid burns or fatal gases.
  
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  December 18, 2019 3:44pm
Swifty

As a proud WCOB Sir Ron couldn’t be capable of such things surely……
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December 18, 2019 11:54am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Perhaps you need to supply the link(s):
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405755/sir-ron-brierley-charged-with-alleged-possession-of-child-abuse-material-australia-media
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/former-corporate-raider-charged-with-child-porn-offences-20191218-p53l0b.html
  
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  December 18, 2019 12:13pm
- Tall Man
  
  A bloody shame if proven.
  
  Sad way to cap a legacy really.
  
  1 7
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  December 18, 2019 12:52pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Why the downticks? Who out there could celebrate the downfall of someone. My thoughts have nothing to do with support just expressing what a shame that this is what he will be remembered for.
    
    2 5
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    December 18, 2019 1:50pm
    - chaos
      
      I think the trolls just down tick the person, not the comment
      
      4 2
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      December 18, 2019 3:09pm
      - Tall Man
        
        So it’s not just the mods being mean to me 🙂
        
        2 5
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        December 18, 2019 4:08pm
- Inandout
  
  I don’t relish when rumours are allegedly correct.
  
  2 0
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  December 18, 2019 1:22pm
  - sam green
    
    Wonder if he’s mates with this charming trio.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213721
    
    When this comes back to court there will be some scuttling.
    
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    December 18, 2019 1:58pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Nah, they seem more like labour party abusers to me.
      
      5 3
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      December 18, 2019 2:30pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I just checked with my partners mum for you Sammy, and she sez “no…definately not!”
      [Ma knows exactly who this mob is but refuses to tell even me for fare I might let slip….but she can say catagorically RB is not remotely associated in any way with what went on here]
      
      3 0
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      December 18, 2019 3:53pm
      - sam green
        
        I know who they are too and yes – no similarity in the alleged crimes. I imagine there are other similarities however. We will see who seeks to distance themselves.
        
        3 0
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        December 18, 2019 6:23pm
- gump
  
  The evidence seems pretty overwhelming.
  
  “The Australian has reported that an anon call to Crime Stoppers sparked the 5 mth investigation into Sir Ron … allegedly possessed around 207k child abuse images and around 500 videos as he tried to board the flight out of Sydney”
  
  4 0
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  December 18, 2019 5:48pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    WTF 207K images? You don’t just pick these up by googling.. I hope he brings a whole lot more down with him. Bastards.
    
    3 0
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    December 18, 2019 7:01pm
Maggie Pie

My partner’s mum has quite an extensive share portfolio that she like to manage herself and attends all the AGMs. I recall how she used to say years ago that she always found Sir Ron Brierley to be a bit of a ‘strange sort of fellow’.

Just saying.
14 1
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December 18, 2019 12:09pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner just popped in with a couple of Krispy Kremes for our lunch.
  When I showed him, he said, “WOW! Ma was onto it. Can hardly wait for old BJ to blog on this tomorrow. You can bet Sir Bob will be relishing this! ” LOL!!
  
  9 0
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  December 18, 2019 1:13pm
tedbear

Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway is urging tourists to ask adventure companies whether they are registered before booking or using their services.

I urge voters to ascertain what business experience or higher education qualifications wannabe politicians possess before voting for them or using their services.
19 1
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December 18, 2019 1:42pm
- cmm
  
  Are there really any unregistered ventures providing services to White Island and such?
  
  I’m pretty sure all people operating commercial marine services need to be registered and operate in accordance with NZ marine regulations.
  
  I think he’s just making noises to try justify his $2k a day salary.
  
  8 0
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  December 18, 2019 3:30pm
Tall Man

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@pro/2019/12/12/942055/why-this-port-move-debate-is-a-pointless-farce

Can this really be a piece of honest journalism and comment?

I need a second opinion as it’s been so long since I’ve seen any I no longer can tell 😉
2 0
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December 18, 2019 2:28pm
rightoverlabour

WTF?
Quote:
Labour Party sexual assault claim review: Maria Dew’s findings can’t substantiate allegation

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12294999

I can’t comment further, I am too angry. I’d get a permanent ban with what I would like to say. However, feel free to go to
https://ysb.co.nz/have-your-say-246/ where you may get an idea….
12 1
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December 18, 2019 3:27pm
- sooty
  
  Of course it was always going to be a whitewash. That was a givern. The report will go no where near the police of course!
  
  11 1
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  December 18, 2019 3:52pm
- Tall Man
  
  “• And that Young Labour members are provided with an annual induction process”
  
  I thought they weren’t doing that shit any more!
  
  7 2
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  December 18, 2019 4:00pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Edit misbehaving again… must have though I used the (L) word and got a mod fizzing…
    
    Standard labour policy:
    
    1) Attack the complainant
    
    2) attack the complainant
    
    3) If (1) fails, commence (2) and repeat until complainant gives up.
    
    11 2
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    December 18, 2019 4:03pm
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  I find it astonishing.. It is the job of the police to figure whether there is a case to warrant a prosecution. That gets tested in Court and a jury decides. Presumably it is still an option for this person to go to the police.
  
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  December 19, 2019 9:12am
- Nickc2
  
  The timing of this press release is obvious: Christmas break next week, journos on holidays, politicians uncontactable etc and radio and TV talking heads otherwise engaged or bribed. There were even delays introduced into the investigation in order to arrive at this timing.
  The writing was on the wall when an investigation was undertaken by a Labour Party appointed authority rather than the Police.
  Corruption free New Zealand …… Yea right.
  
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  December 19, 2019 9:42am
cmm

So there is nothing to see and the Labour sex scandal report says “nothing can be established”.

Ok, that is a paid for report. What did the cops say? Why were the cops not encouraged to participate in a potential criminal matter.

Fingergate also nussing to see here: funny that.
24 1
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December 18, 2019 3:41pm
- pdm
  
  Just shows if you set the terms of the enquiry right and get the right person fronting it you can get the answer you want.
  
  What a disgrace.
  
  22 1
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  December 18, 2019 3:46pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The most serious allegation was of a sexual assault. I cna only assume that the alleged victim did not want to report it to the police – that is quite common with such allegations.
  The executive summary of the report says that ‘there is insufficient evidence that the events occurred as alleged by Ms 1, at any time during February 2018. Her evidence was incorrect in
  several critical respects in relation to the events of that evening.’ So it might well be that any police investigation would only come to the same conclusion.
  
  1 15
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  December 18, 2019 3:47pm
  - Batman
    
    It does smack of victim blaming though. They’re using the fear and panic of a victim to justify the hush up.
    
    18 0
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    December 18, 2019 3:49pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Not sure about that. It implies the lawyer employed to report on this is party to a ‘hush up’.
      
      0 10
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      December 18, 2019 4:16pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    What I can’t fathom is how they know “her evidence was incorrect in several critical aspects in relation to the events of that evening”. Either she lied, or he lied. (Unless someone else was there to verify the events). One then needs to look at motive. Why would she lie and possibly bring the Labour Party into disrepute? And then form. The Rapist had form, supposedly 15 cases of some kind…. This is a disgusting cover up. Jacinda, we are not stupid. We may well remind you of this as Election 2020 gets closer…. If the report was different, this would be forgotten about by then, now it will fester with allegations of cover ups, corruption, bought judges, the works. You guys really are the Stupid Party.
    
    18 2
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    December 18, 2019 4:00pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Bugger, the Labour Party Stooge is quick off the mark….
      
      7 2
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      December 18, 2019 4:26pm
    - Monique Watson
      
      And aren’t Ardern and Szabo a pair of grim faced twins.
      
      7 1
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      December 18, 2019 6:58pm
    - chiz
      
      More here:
      
      It also said the complainant had since admitted providing “misleading information” to the investigation.
      
      and also:
      
      The complainant had given media a screenshot of an email and an attached document which she said she had sent to the Labour Party outlining her complaints of sexual assault.
      
      Ms Dew concluded, on the balance of probabilities, that document was not attached.
      
      This is beginning to sound like it might, perhaps, be an angry-ex-makes-up-shit scenario.
      
      3 5
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      December 18, 2019 7:03pm
      - Martin Williams
        
        +1.
        
        I proposed nothing happened here and Paula Bennett was using the victim for political purposes.
        
        I was roundly shouted down by the usual suspects but it turns out nothing did happen.
        
        I expect a thorough and grovelling apology from Tall Man in particular.
        
        1 6
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        December 18, 2019 9:11pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I thought martin would grasp this whitewash with both hands.
        
        Not happy to just vilify the victims he, like the rest of labour and ardern, want to grind the life out of the 12 complainants.
        
        We have 12 people that have been called liars yet I think we all know who the real liars are here.
        
        I still suggest that martin tell the women in his life that he supports the rapist not the victim.
        
        0 0
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        December 19, 2019 10:58am
      - Tall Man
        
        So he had 12 girlfriends?
        
        He must be a busy fellow.
        
        0 0
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        December 19, 2019 10:59am
  - Tall Man
    
    I’ve never seen a victim of an assault, any assault, make a calm and rational complaint.
    
    9 2
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    December 18, 2019 4:07pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    So what about the other 14 complainants? Just mass hysteria? Or is Labour in the rape enabling business?
    
    8 2
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    December 18, 2019 5:17pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Nutjobs, ask ardern, she’ll tell ya.
      
      6 2
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      December 18, 2019 7:19pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Mike the first reports indicated that ardern and her crew asked the complainants to trust the party and let them sort it out.
    
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/jacinda-ardern-on-back-foot-as-opponents-go-for-the-jugular-20190914-p52ra5.html
    
    Now I accept that we all have differing measures and solutions but ardern has to be a (self censored due to pathetic moderation) to push the blame back on to the victims then seek affirmation by asking a qc rather than the police to sort the shit storm out.
    
    5 2
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    December 18, 2019 7:07pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A QC does not have the investigative power of the Police and from a lawyerly perspective her opinion may be right but is inadequate.
  
  The first rule in attempting to prove a criminal matter is to assume that a crime is established and then seek evidence. QC’s cannot seek evidence they read reports. The evidence is turned over for clues and leads to follow up. They may disclose actual wrong doing equally they can indirectly confirm there has been none.
  By presuming the crime is true evidence is not overlooked otherwise it is easy to make a judgement call that all is OK.
  I had some years as a forensic accountant investigating and preparing cases for prosecution. I also had substantial power to gather evidence and compel others to produce evidence. A QC would not possess those powers unless granted through a Royal Commission or such like.
  
  The QC’s report itself has to be seen as evidence supporting a charge of obstruction of justice by the PM.
  
  12 2
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  December 18, 2019 4:02pm
  - Tall Man
    
    A clear analysis.
    
    Now, wait for the trolls to climb out of their caves and from under their dank bridges….. and mikey wanting to be a smartarse.
    
    5 2
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    December 18, 2019 5:17pm
- Tall Man
  
  12 complainants vs one highly paid friendly QC…….
  
  Who’d a thought that…………
  
  21 2
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  December 18, 2019 4:04pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Cindy will be smug, another successful whitewash, another victim of the party sent to Siberia.
  
  19 2
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  December 18, 2019 4:10pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  So if that is the case, shouldn’t both Nigel Haworth the president, and the accused staff member have their jobs back?
  Why did they resign then?
  
  11 1
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  December 18, 2019 4:34pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It doesn’t look as though Haworth handled these matters competently. The accused staff member behave poorly, at the very least, so there would be no compelling reason to re-employ him.
    
    2 4
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    December 18, 2019 5:21pm
    - Tall Man
      
      But mikey.. did he have wtt… wandering hand trouble or is that an accepted downside of dealing with labour perverts…..
      
      3 2
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      December 18, 2019 7:18pm
      - oob
        
        Settle down.
        
        Milky’s being pretty even-handed here and you might consider meeting him halfway.
        
        1 2
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        December 18, 2019 8:58pm
rightoverlabour

Greta, how is that warming coming along, especially with the reduced snowfall….

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10556729/weather-forecast-uk-christmas-snow-tempartures/#Echobox=1576568147
7 1
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December 18, 2019 3:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  I wish it would hurry up!
  
  A bit too chilly for swimming today around here.
  
  4 1
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  December 18, 2019 4:05pm
lifesgood

I know its childish but I got enormous satisfaction turning a “Jacinda” magazine over at the supermarket today #turnadern
15 2
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December 18, 2019 4:24pm
- Tall Man
  
  No more childish than the slavish treatment she is afforded in those magazines and by some mods running protection for her like the duck..
  
  Good for you.
  
  5 1
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  December 18, 2019 5:14pm
SPC

In India the PM Modi has determined that India will provide for non Moslem refugees suffering persecution in neighbouring countries (Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan and China – Buddhists of Tibet).

Which is the humanitarian thing to do.

Yet there are now student protests by those claiming this is discriminatory against Moslems.

Presumably not because it undermines the ability of the governments of Pakistan, Bangladesh and China to persecute non Moslems, but because they are not also providing refuge to Moslems suffering persecution. However there are no Moslems in those countries suffering persecution for being Moslem, apart from Uyghurs in China who are behind the Kunlun mountain range north of Kashmir and maybe Hazaras in Afghanistan for being Shia a rather than Sunni – but they can flee to Iran).

At its heart this is an objection to “BJP” doing the right thing for non Moslems who are not Indian citizens, while treating Moslems in India as second class citizens (recently direct rule by Delhi was imposed over the only Moslem majority area of Jammu and Kashmir – to enable the Hinduisation of this region as China is doing to Tibet).
5 0
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December 18, 2019 4:35pm
- chiz
  
  However there are no Moslems in those countries suffering persecution for being Moslem
  
  Plenty of Shia Muslims in Pakistan would be happy to dispute that, given all the violence directed at them. Ahmadiyya Muslims would also disagree.
  
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  December 18, 2019 6:52pm
  - SPC
    
    The Shia Moslms in Pakistan, like the Hazara in Afghanistan have the option of seeking refugee status in Iran.
    
    The Ahmadiyya Moslems, of course are declared to “not be Moslems” in Pakistan – I am not sure how the Indian government categorises them.
    
    1 0
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    December 18, 2019 8:06pm
  - Michael
    
    Remember they continually do it to christians and others too.
    
    0 0
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    December 18, 2019 11:20pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Well the BJP is not doing the right thing for Christians in India ,
  
  India’s Christians, Muslims face higher persecution since Modi government
  Human rights’ work earns Catholic Church increased scrutiny and criticism, says Jesuit
  
  https://www.ncronline.org/news/world/indias-christians-muslims-face-higher-persecution-modi-government
  
  2 5
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  December 18, 2019 7:27pm
- DigNap15
  
  The thing is, its the news media saying the crowds are rioting because its anti muslim.
  When in facts its more about the jobs and land they may take!
  
  1 0
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  December 18, 2019 9:02pm
  - SPC
    
    Largely (for now) students (some/many Moslem) on the one hand and the people of Assam in the east (1/3rd of the people there are Bengali Moslems).
    
    0 0
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    December 19, 2019 12:26am
MH

I know this will get me into trouble and i have brought it on myself and i have none else to blame but but….Police have found on Sir John Key’s computer file pages for his forthcoming book -Hair braids,plaits and other Pony tales.

Now that deserves 20 down ticks and 3 up ticks from the known KB transtrickers.
Set damage control state 1 condition Zulu.
2 5
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December 18, 2019 5:28pm
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND …

Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill – New Zealand Parliament

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/bills-proposed-laws/document/BILL_93461/infrastructure-funding-and-financing-bill

The single broad policy of this omnibus bill is to provide a funding and financing model to support the provision of infrastructure for housing and urban development that supports functioning urban land markets and reduces the impact of local authority financing and funding constraints. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… Essential viewing …

Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill – Hon Phil Twyford – First Reading – Video 1

https://vimeo.com/379923683
0 4
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December 18, 2019 7:02pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Government and National support Bill enabling government-approved infrastructure projects to be paid for using levies imposed on landowners – even those who didn’t know they’d be levied when they bought their property … Jenee Tibshraeny … Interest Co NZ
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103068/government-and-national-support-bill-enabling-government-approved-infrastructure
  .
  .
  … Earlier report …
  
  Property owners and developers want more councils to be directed by Government under new planning rules … Marta Steeman … Stuff NZ
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116615782/property-owners-and-developers-want-more-councils-to-be-directed-by-government-under-new-planning-rules
  
  … concluding …
  
  … (Local Government New Zealand says …) … The real obstacles to development were a restrictive planning regime, too much risk on councils regarding building and the inability to open up land for development because of poor infrastructure funding and financing tools.
  
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  December 18, 2019 7:04pm
chiz

Mormon Church Stockpiled $100 Billion Intended for Charities and Misled LDS Members.
3 0
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December 18, 2019 7:21pm
- Tall Man
  
  I’m sure Mr Ardern has no idea what you are talking about.
  
  1 0
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  December 18, 2019 7:52pm
JibberJabber

Great speech from Simon, Labour became very interested in their phones all of a sudden.
Many a true word spoken in jest.
https://www.facebook.com/simonjbridges/videos/2724852004241204/
8 0
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December 18, 2019 7:40pm
- Tricati
  
  That’s awesome – Bet you a Christmas cake it wont get any coverage by the media.
  A succinct analysis of an inept government.
  
  10 0
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  December 18, 2019 8:20pm
mark15

Hows Shane jones?
Anyone?
4 0
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December 18, 2019 8:36pm
- Tall Man
  
  Fat and vaseliney…………..
  
  1 0
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  December 18, 2019 8:53pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Fat, rich, arrogant and obnoxious
  
  2 0
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  December 18, 2019 9:03pm
Tall Man

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/andrew-dickens-climate-change-zealots-on-both-sides-of-debate-get-in-the-way-of-common-sense/

I’m just so glad that our radio announcers are so smart that they have the time to fuck off and gain a really big boy science qualification so they can make an intelligent comment about what most radio announcers wouldn’t have a fucking clue about…..

Oh wait, that’s the new world, ignoramuses are the new experts… my bad, dickens knows everything.
6 1
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December 18, 2019 8:41pm
Tall Man

Has anyone else noticed that all journalists no longer list their email addresses.

A few years ago it was pushed but now the last thing they want is the “world” speaking to them.
1 0
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December 18, 2019 8:48pm
- Batman
  
  Yeah but given the trash in the comments section and Twitter, the last thing I’d want is that drivel delivered to my inbox!
  
  2 3
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  December 18, 2019 10:16pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Perhaps if they were less inclined to write drivel they would be less likely to have drivel sent to them. Maybe a certain mod could volunteer to screen their email and protect them from the hurty bits. I think I may know where there may be one.
    
    0 1
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    December 19, 2019 8:15am
Paul Marsden

Does the NZ Government have sovereignty rights over White Island which lies beyond the 12 nautical mile limit, and how might this shape the fire storm of various accusations and claims, that are about to come?
1 1
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December 18, 2019 9:29pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  New Zealand sovereignty extends well beyond 12 miles from the North Island and South Island. You may have heard of other islands – Chatham, Auckland, Kermadecs, Campbell, etc, etc. All are indisputably NZ territory.
  
  0 1
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  December 19, 2019 8:18am
Martin Williams

Great to see authorities cracking down on far-right extremism.

Right wing thought is clearly the most dangerous and prone to generating violence and while it’s concerning these scumbags are infiltrating the military it’s good to know we are onto them.

Of course this clown will be not much different to those who now comment on YSB. Hopefully the authorities will deal with them also!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405784/soldier-s-arrest-raises-concerns-far-right-could-infiltrate-defence-force
1 3
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December 18, 2019 10:18pm
Martin Williams

Former National Party prime minister loses her job at the NZ China council because she’s apparently corrupt (who would have thought!)

What’s the bet we will see another former National Party prime minister, Jong Kee, in the dock in this way in the future…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/405774/i-m-surprised-she-was-put-there-in-the-first-place-shipley-s-nz-china-council-departure
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December 18, 2019 10:37pm

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