General Debate 15 December 2019

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peterwn

What a miserable editorial in Saturday’s Dom Post:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/118180244/australian-immigration-policy-morally-wrong-hurting-relationship

The editorial bangs on about Australia deporting Kiwi crims which is their right. If they refuse to make most of the opportunities in the Lucky Country they do no deserve to be there. Kiwis have great access to the Lucky Country unlike people from any other country who would give their eye teeth for Australian residency.

What seems to have triggered the latest outburst is a law change that allows non citizens convicted of a crime with a 2+ year jail term to be deported. At present they must be sentenced to 1+ years jail to be deported and presumably some judges have shied away from imposing an appropriate sentence as they thing the resulting deportation would be ‘disproportionate’.

Normally I would put this down to media rambling, but this editorial comes hard on the heels of the White Island disaster which has killed and injured some Australians. The Australian Government’s response had been magnificent. An immediate decision must have been taken at the highest level to use the military to evacuate the injured to Australia while providing the necessary medical and nursing support. An important effect of that decision was to help to take the pressure off NZ hospitals which effectively meant Australia came to NZ’s aid in a time of need.

This is why I consider the Dom Post editorial mean and miserable. Instead the editorial writer should have been praising Australia in taking the prompt action that it did. If the Dom Post staff really wanted to take a cheap shot at Australia, they should have waited a month or so.
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December 15, 2019 8:01am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  I find the reasoning of the New Zealand government maddening. Your citizenship is what it says on your passport. It is not about feelings.
  
  Then there is this mantra that these crims are “products of Australia”. No they are products of their upbringing by New Zealand parents.
  
  All this whining and nagging is likely to lead to Australia making things even more restrictive. Is the New Zealand Prime Minister seriously going to raise this yet again at the next bilateral meeting with Scomo, and the one after that, indefinitely? If so I don’t think it will end well.
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:33am
  - Jack5
    
    Jacinderella will wear her magic hijab, thus bewitching the Aussies, and the deal will be: NZ will accept 2 million boat people and Australia keeps 2000 Kiwi criminals.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:50pm
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  Andrea Vance is the lead reporter on the feature article. She probably wrote the editorial.
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:35am
  - igm
    
    Maybe when we get a decent government it may look at Vance’s credentials . . . to me she is, and always will be, a devious and dangerous ally of Labour and decent New Zealanders.
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:52am
    - sooty
      
      Wonder if Barry had any input to it in support of NZF!
      
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      December 15, 2019 9:50am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      I most certainly hope it does not. Government has no business looking at any journalist’s credentials.
      
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      December 15, 2019 11:46am
  - oldpark
    
    @SA @8.35am
    She is ex disgraced English newspaper. “News of the World”. Nuff Said.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:29am
  - peterwn
    
    The DomPost is often too chicken to name their editorial writers. In the days that the newspaper proprietors actually controlled their newspapers this was quite OK as the editorial writer would merely be writing what for example the Blundell Brothers (who used to own the Evening Post) wanted. However now that newspaper owners have pretty well no say in what the paper’s attitude is to things (as was clearly shown when mining magnate Gina Rinehart purchased 20% or so of Fairfax and tried to get a Board seat), then surely the journo who writes the editorial should put his or her own name to it.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:31am
    - fernglas
      
      I think that the convention is that the editorial is the opinion of the newspaper, rather than that of the individual opinion writer, which is why there is anonymity.
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:00am
      - peterwn
        
        It used to be a convention that people who wrote letters to the editor could sign them ‘disgusted’, ‘mother of six’ etc but the Listener quickly followed by the newspapers forbade that about 45 years ago. So with the ceasing of that convention, for consistency, editorial writers should sign their editorials.
        
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        December 15, 2019 7:17pm
  - Michael
    
    oh yes Andrea Vance, the other half of Me2tooNZ
    except where Jacinda’s culpability is evident.
    
    siren of a politician.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:55am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  On recent days I have pondered whether, if New Zealanders were to be caught up in a comparable disaster in Australia, the New Zealand Government would use the RNZAF to medivac our citizens back home.
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:40am
  - igm
    
    No, they would be holding pathetic and socialist discussions.
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:53am
  - Ruawai
    
    Australia would probably offer to use their planes as ours often break down.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:09am
    - sooty
      
      Or Cindys using it!
      
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      December 15, 2019 9:51am
      - sooty
        
        Doesn’t all this come back to Klarkenfehur not stopping all the lowlifes going to Australia and been dicks!
        You just watch what happens when Cindy takes the Manus Islanders!
        
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        December 15, 2019 9:59am
  - yossarian
    
    Depends if Jacinda needs it that weekend for a trip to the islands, so her boyfriend can go fishing
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:49am
  - Michael
    
    do we actually have the capability.?
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:57am
    - Sydney Alvarado
      
      Up to a point. The 757s can be used for medivac but they are prone to breakdown. After that it is the Hercules which are 55 years old, shake and vibrate and take 5 hours to reach the east coast of Australia. Good luck if you are a burns victim.
      
      Australia has more options and redundancy. The C17 Globemaster can be fitted out as a arial ICU for 6 critically injured patients. And the RAAF has 6 of them.
      
      I think that gives you an idea of who you would like to evacuate you if you were in harms way.
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:50am
  - Prince
    
    RNZAF would be fully involved ferrying Ardern back and forth for media events.
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yup, she is far more important than burn victims.
      Btw, I have been burnt – not nice
      
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      December 15, 2019 12:26pm
    - Nickc2
      
      And photo shoots!
      
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      December 15, 2019 12:30pm
- artemisia
  
  From that editorial –
  
  As Justice Minister Andrew Little has pointed out, deporting these people “doesn’t answer the fundamental problems Australia is trying to fix”.
  
  The statement means nothing without something backing it up. And police in New Zealand have said it is a very small number of families here that commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime. Assuming similar over the ditch, 2000 deportees and more to come should be making a serious hole in their crime stats.
  
  Could that mean starting to fix a fundamental problem?
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:06am
  - Ruahine
    
    Australia is fixing the fundamental problem. They are sending the bludging criminals back to where they have come from. Australia is the better for it. Little is the Corbyn of NZ politics.
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:08am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    That Dominion-post editorial will be noticed by the Australian government. The High Commission in Wellington monitors media and this story will feature in the daily briefing of the Australian Foreign Minister. As will every single utterance by New Zealand Ministers.
    
    Seriously if this keeps going the Australians will ramp up. How about deportation for ANY criminal offending including drunk or dangerous driving? Really think that would never happen?
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:54am
    - Batman
      
      Trust me, the Dominion Post editorial carries no weight in foreign affairs circles…
      
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      December 15, 2019 11:19am
      - sooty
        
        Don’t you love it the deportees come back in shackles with a couple of minders!
        
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        December 15, 2019 12:43pm
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    Isn’t the “fundamental problem” that Australia does not want to deal with the harm caused by thousands of criminal foreign nationals? This is not a complex problem for Australia.
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:56am
    - artemisia
      
      Not sure what Mr Little thinks another country’s fundamental problem is. I think it would be a grand idea for the Australian Prime Minister to give him a call to check they are both on the same page.
      
      I was going to suggest Mr Little makes the call, but thought that might go straight to voicemail.
      
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      December 15, 2019 12:06pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  As far as I’m aware, their ‘more favoured’ Aus Labor Party doesn’t have any plans to change the deportation of Kiwi crims back to NZ policy…
  I believe most Aussie voters don’t really have any issues with the policy either – where’s the human rights solidarity then?
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:08am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Can we criticise Australia for raising and exporting an [Mod – deleted. We have this law called the presumption of innocence]
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:23am
  - The King
    
    “White Supremacist”
    
    Please do explain in detail Brenton Tarrants desire to “rule over brown people” as is in the actual definition of “White Supremacist”
    
    I’m genuinely interested in what makes you think he’s a White supremacist give us some key points in your thesis here other than just the 2 words.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:45am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Don’t expect a sensible response from Martin. He’s so deep in the Marxist mire that his brain is poisoned.
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:30am
      - The King
        
        There is never a sensible response from anybody who uses the term “White Supremacy” when i use the term “Jewish Supremacy” everyone loses their mind in the exact opposite of their response to “White Supremacy”
        
        I just don’t get it, nobody has an issue with Jewish Supremacy in a Jewish ethnostate, in fact its celebrated.
        
        How does ones mind even function with such blatant hypocrisy? Is their an IQ level that is set as a limit to this false negative?
        
        It’s not Cognitive dissonance, nor is it a Nirvana fallacy. And i’m not the only one who sees it.
        
        I want to de-radicalize young White males, but i can’t do it, i can’t tell them “It’s ok for the jews,indians,africans,chinese to have a ethnostate, just not ok for you buddy”
        
        I can’t tell them “Diversity is your strength” when they read about a Maori who tried to pay someone 10 pounds of weed to kill a random White person.
        
        What if it happened and that random White person was their sister or mother?
        
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        December 15, 2019 11:14am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      WTF? [Mod – deleted. Let the Court decide his guilt].
      
      He obviously has a sympathetic ear in you.
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:41am
      - The King
        
        A White Supremacist wants to “rule” over other races not kill religious people, this is the definition now work with it.
        
        Baruch Goldstein gunned down ‘hundreds’ of Muslims in Israel in the 90’s so answer me this..
        
        Was Baruch Goldstein a “Jewish Supremacist”
        
        Yes or no?
        
        Ill repeat the question so its a bit easier for you.
        
        Give me 10 reasons why you think Brenton Tarrant is a “White Supremacist” 10 solid points of interest.
        
        Come on mate you’re the one who has the ‘Superior morals and values” lets hear it.
        
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        December 15, 2019 11:32am
      - The King
        
        “Diversity Supremacy”
        
        Diversity supremacy or Diversity supremacism is the racist belief that white people are inferior to people of other races and therefore should be dominant over them. Diversity supremacy has roots in Communism,Marxism,Feminism,Eco-Fascism, and it often relies on pseudoscientific arguments. Like most similar movements such as Anti-Fascism, Diversity supremacists typically oppose members of other ideologies that don’t conform to their belief as well as Jews.
        
        Different forms of Diversity supremacism put forth different conceptions of who is considered Diverse, and different groups of Diversity supremacists identify White people and White European cultural groups as their primary enemy.
        
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        December 15, 2019 12:48pm
      - igm
        
        You cannot even count, or you exaggerate beyond reason.
        
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        December 15, 2019 2:56pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      “White Supremacist” is merely an empty pejorative term for any white person who doesn’t want to be willingly complicit in their own destruction, ethnically cleansed or genocided out of existence, and turn over the legacy of their ancestors via the mechanism of mass immigration. It is just designed to shut people up.
      
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      December 15, 2019 12:11pm
      - The King
        
        I don’t know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.
        
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        December 15, 2019 1:30pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Still vilifying rape victims martin.
    
    labour policy I suppose, protect the party at all costs and throw any whining victim under the bus.
    
    How’d the freebies lazy labour policies go down in the UK….. Down I think like you and your bunch of lazy liars will in 2020 in NZ.
    
    Remember to come back from time to time and remind us how awesome ardern is, with the economic disaster they are building we might need a bit of a laugh occasionally.
    
    Ps: Those of us that can read are well aware that tarrant was a lefty eco fuckwit… probably a little like yourself.
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:25am
    - The King
      
      The eco part of the manifesto was a troll dude. Like the Candace owens and the Navy Seal copy pasta.
      
      Everybody not on the heavy censored side of the internet knows Tarrant was an act of revenge for a little girl murdered, regardless of what side of the political agenda everyone is on this is a fact, most of his previous posting on 8 chan involved this little girl. The desecration of her grave by leftists was the spark that lit the fuse.
      
      He wasn’t born into the kkk, he wasn’t talked into doing anything, no word inspired what he did.
      
      It was that picture of that mangled little girl cut in half by a truck.. by someone who-should-not-have-been-there.
      
      99.9% of everyone who saw that picture have not shot up a mosque.
      
      Revenge is the oldest human trait that exists.
      
      The New testament makes many references about not doing it, for good reasons (Romans 12:19) can’t say the same for the old testament (Deuteronomy 32:35). Unfortunately its also widely portrayed as “moral” by movies,books etc think Law Abiding Citizen.
      
      Plain old Vengeance, nothing more,nothing less.
      
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      December 15, 2019 12:03pm
      - Batman
        
        51 counts of murder.
        
        POS.
        
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        December 15, 2019 12:33pm
      - Stephieboy2
        
        “.. revenge for a little girl murdered”??
        
        Bollux!
        
        Just a regular whitey ?
        
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        December 15, 2019 12:48pm
      - The King
        
        @Batman
        
        51 *alleged* counts of murder.
        
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        December 15, 2019 1:33pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        White guy shoots up a mosque: shooter’s ethnicity and life story out in the media within hours, gun bans and calls for internet censorship
        
        Two Black nationalists shoot up a Jewish deli: identities aren’t released for days, then the story is buried.
        
        I’d call that a double-standard. It’s only an issue when a white guy commits an atrocity. Muslims or blacks do it – nothing to see here. Doesn’t fit the narrative being pushed.
        
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        December 15, 2019 3:48pm
    - Martin Williams
      
      He is one of you. Own it.
      
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      December 15, 2019 7:49pm
  - John Warren
    
    Caution: non-sequitur alert.
    
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    December 15, 2019 12:39pm
  - Martin Williams
    
    Quite shocking to read the replies to this comment. The king is clearly a Christchurch massacre denier and supportive of the attack.
    
    I’m sure the Police would be interested in this thread if they are not already aware of it…
    
    After a major rethink on the rampant islamophobia which defines this forum post March 15, resulting in a moderation structure for the first time, I can’t help thinking Kiwiblog is reverting to its bad old ways.
    
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    December 15, 2019 7:46pm
- Faroffsound
  
  More whinging from people who should know better.
  
  Whether we like it or not the Australians have every right to export non-citizens who break the law.
  
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  December 15, 2019 1:12pm
- surfing
  
  It would be far better for both countries to cancel the reciprocal right of abode agreement .
  
  I just don’t think it is working because of things like this.
  
  If NZ treated Australian citizens equally then I’d have no issue but we are bleeding heart softies.
  
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  December 15, 2019 6:12pm
JibberJabber

Thomas Sowell
Whatever the ideology or rhetoric of the political left, their agenda around the world has been preempting other people’s decisions and regimenting their lives.
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December 15, 2019 8:03am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Regimenting your life?
  
  In what ways with examples?
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:32am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Predictable response from the Stephiebot.
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:47am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Captain
      He responds instinctively to certain stimuli. No thought enters into it:
      
      – Sees comment
      – Types response
      – Feels vindicated
      
      His ‘decisions’ are preempted and highly regimented. QED.
      
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      December 15, 2019 9:00am
      - sooty
        
        He has to write twice as fast, now that morris chancer has packed his bags!
        
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        December 15, 2019 9:54am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Not at all. My response is to someone like Sowell who makes sweeping assertions and generalistions not backed up by facts.
        
        Uncritically accepted by his compliant sucker disciples!
        
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        December 15, 2019 9:56am
  - JibberJabber
    
    You`re so blind and ignorant of history Stephi, it`s no wonder you don`t want to think for yourself.
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:48am
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    https://www.mfe.govt.nz/waste/plastic-bag-ban/form-reporting-alleged-breaches-of-ban
    
    https://treasury.govt.nz/publications/oia-response/advice-and-comments-treasury-ministry-transport-vehicle-purhase-feebate-scheme-and-vehicle-fuel-efficency-standard-oia-20190526
    
    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-bans-military-style-semi-automatics-and-assault-rifles
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:53am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  JibberJabber
  Thom Sowell is like a modern day socio-economic Socrates. So wise and astute, and yet he is held in contempt for it, by people who benefit from keeping African Americans like him ‘on the plantation.’
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:39am
  - Swifty
    
    Reading Sowell has been one of the most rewarding and liberating experiences of my life.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:02am
    - Stephieboy2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Swifty, not surprising!
      
      Thomas Sowell: Idiot Emeritus,
      
      https://otoolefan.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/thomas-sowell-idiot-emeritus/
      
      In other words ignoramus at large followed by the gullible!
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:23am
      - Swifty
        
        You are a truly pathetic individual.
        
        Pathetic.
        
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        December 15, 2019 11:29am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Steffster: I was sorely tempted to uptick you to see if a solitary green vote would fry your circuits irrevocably. But, nah.
        
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        December 15, 2019 5:23pm
  - Wangas Feral
    
    The left hate Sowell. The vitriol he gets shows just how racist they truly are. I honestly think that he is one of the greatest thinkers of the last hundred or more years.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:38am
Jack5

DPF is driving. The Batmobile is out of gas.
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December 15, 2019 8:06am
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

How long until it is a criminal offence to oppose the Chinese takeover of New Zealand and its sovereignty?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/118202423/white-supremacist-poster-is-vandalism-auckland-transport-says
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December 15, 2019 8:23am
- chaos
  
  I had a doctor that moved to New Zealand from China in the 70s. He had been a gp since the and his wife a specialist. They gave more to this country than most kiwis do. Yet the last I heard from her she was on tv once again facing constant racism from people because she had come from china. Threats left in her letterbox, constantly told to go home. I’d rather have a million people like her family than one person like these gutless people that put up posters like this
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:39am
  - Paginus
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Move to China if you want to live amongst a million of them.
    There is no need to replace Western Civilization in New Zealand.
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:58am
    - Batman
      
      I assume you’re one of those gutless losers saying shit like that then?
      
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      December 15, 2019 9:00am
      - The King
        
        Shit like What? China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Japan for the Japanese.
        
        China has people in concentration camps and are purposefully inseminating a minority in an attempt to breed then out.
        
        And your crying about a couple of flyers.
        
        Don’t get me wrong i’m all for a China takeover, the sooner the camps open the better.
        
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        December 15, 2019 9:56am
      - Tall Man
        
        Well I guess that eliminates you as the mod deleting my ardern references 🙂
        
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        December 15, 2019 10:21am
      - Paginus
        
        For some reason, don’t know why, NZ will be different to other great multicultural societies like, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, Rhodesia, Sudan, etc.
        
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        December 15, 2019 10:45am
  - The King
    
    Today in things that never happened.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:50am
Swifty

If of interest, the home of Arthur Lydiard from which he and ‘his boys’ began and finished the Waiatarua run is still standing.

For years now it’s a stop on trips I sometimes do with house guests when showing them round the neighbourhood.

5 Wainwright Ave, Mt Roskill.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/5+Wainwright+Avenue,+Mount+Roskill,+Auckland+1041/@-36.8972818,174.7227623,3a,75y,74.87h,79.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8wwEZ-tJizyQENeY0ElnYA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x6d0d46f230abd1e1:0x1086daa1bd46d78c!8m2!3d-36.8972736!4d174.7230785
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December 15, 2019 8:29am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Now Mt Roskill stan?
  
  LOL
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:57am
- yossarian
  
  To this day, it ceases to amaze me that Arthur was never knighted. I know he and the boys club of Athletics New Zealand never saw eye to eye. But he was the sole source to making us a middle distance powerhouse. And that’s not even considering his influence on the whole jogging movement of the 80s where he got heart patients to get running and increasing their life expectancy and quality of life.
  
  I met a guy who went to one of his seminars, and he Arthur believed he could walk down the street and pick out a dozen or so people, and if they exactly what he trained them to do could create commonwealth games (when it meant something) medalists.
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:00am
Happychappy

The Immigration Ministers open door policy on arranged marriage and their spouses coming to NZ will go down a treat for those that think we allow to many Indian immigrants into NZ.
https://m.timesofindia.com/world/rest-of-world/nz-opens-doors-to-spouses-from-arranged-marriages-held-in-india/articleshow/72499443.cms
The Immigration Minister goes from extent to another when changing policy over what many thinks is blatant misuse of NZ’s immigration rules.
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December 15, 2019 8:31am
- sooty
  
  Don’t give him a hard time, he’s just doing what the boss ordered. Just like last time!
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:02am
- Tall Man
  
  Mate I don’t have a problem with it as long as we, New Zealand, retain the right to reverse the decision should they prove to be liars or crims.
  
  I think we do but the stats show Asians still don’t feature very high in the crime stats. From memory, despite being 12% + of our population the reach the dizzy heights of 3% of crime whereas our 14% local maori achieve 50% +.
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:11am
  - The King
    
    Oh god you really did it unironically didn’t you
    
    “despite being…”
    
    Go right now and google “Despite being 13%”
    
    Lmao meme magic.
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:36am
    - Tall Man
      
      However, my comment, despite being a call to racism for those that adhere to that belief, was clearly the opposite of the “meme” as it referred to them only committing 3% not the 50% commonly referred to.
      
      What a truly fucked up world whereby simple language has been hijacked by simpering minorities to alter true meanings.
      
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      December 15, 2019 11:45am
      - The King
        
        So 3% commit 50% of all meth importing. Oh they do wow.
        
        0 4
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        December 15, 2019 1:26pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Comprehension not your best skill then?
        
        3 0
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        December 15, 2019 2:27pm
chaos

A good read for all the weetbix box experts here who think they know how to do a better job but are all just full of themselves

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118198952/whakaariwhite-island-sas-commander-who-led-recovery-mission-reveals-how-they-nearly-didnt-make-it

* Wading through boiling, knee-deep acidic sludge, the team of experienced specialist soldiers tasked with recovering six bodies from Whakaari/White Island looked at each other in doubt.

The battle-hardened veterans from the Defence Force’s SAS E Sqaudron team had never found themselves in a situation like this before.*
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December 15, 2019 8:36am
- Kabull
  
  .
  
  3 0
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  December 15, 2019 9:25am
  - Tall Man
    
    Brief, but accurate 😉
    
    Summed up my thoughts on moderation quite nicely.
    
    5 2
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    December 15, 2019 10:06am
    - IC5000
      
      Just stop posting reprehensible filth then.
      
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      December 15, 2019 5:01pm
- Tall Man
  
  Anyone who thinks they have a clue needs to head to their local fire station, borrow a hazard suit and go and do the shopping.
  
  Add in people throwing big rocks, super hot steam and boiling water and they may start to get the idea.
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Either that or join the Army and get a reality check
    
    8 0
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    December 15, 2019 12:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  SAS should have been in control right from the start. Govt, Police and Civil Defence have shown how useless they really are
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:18am
- kevn
  
  @chaos… Indeed. Makes our quick response local helicopter pilots (the ones who saved the severely injured about 1 hour after the initial blast) look even better.
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:35am
  - tavita
    
    The death toll is now 16 and still climbing. How many of those that were daringly rescued actually survived? Any? I don’t want to detract from the bravery and selflessness of the rescuers but I think it is relevant when judging the actions of the police. Its one thing to voluntarily take huge risks in the hope of saving people, its another to send your employees into danger – you do need to weigh the risk to them against the probability of saving lives.
    
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    December 15, 2019 7:52pm
    - Overworked
      
      It’s human nature for most NZ’ers to help people in trouble or in pain.
      
      The absurdity is that we wouldn’t send volunteers in with official support to rescue the injured because of the risk, but we would risk lives to bring back corpses.
      
      2 0
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      December 15, 2019 8:25pm
- Steve Todd
  
  The other morning, Mike Hosking had a guest on, to do with the recovery of (six of) the bodies. He said – paraphrasing – “they’ll fly in, grab the bodies, put them in the back of the helicopters, and fly out. Twenty minutes, tops. What are the chances of another explosion in those 20 minutes?”
  
  No thought as to the conditions, or of the effect the conditions would have on the soldiers; no thought that the bodies would be treated with the utmost respect – which would take time; brushing the ash off them, carefully bagging them; that sort of thing.
  
  Mike Hosking, eh? What a prize prick.
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:38am
  - Tall Man
    
    So Mike is a prick because of what his guest said?
    
    Interesting outlook.
    
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    December 15, 2019 2:26pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Thanks for your response, Tall Man. I was wondering why I was getting downticks only. Clearly, I wasn’t clear.
      
      I was paraphrasing Mike’s question to his guest, not what his guest’s answer was.
      
      At the time, I was so annoyed at Mike’s cavalier attitude to what would be involved, I almost literally spat tacks.
      
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      December 15, 2019 5:03pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Thanks and well done to the SAS team.
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:59am
- John Warren
  
  Can’t have been much to retrieve after several days in boiling hot acidic conditions. Lovely task. Those SAS boys really do deserve a DB.
  
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  December 15, 2019 12:45pm
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Ahh the penny drops with Aussie PM with the obvious,

Australian PM Scott Morrison now finally admits there is a link between the severity of the Australian bushfires and climate change

“The prime minister has moved to reassure voters he understands the bushfires are a natural emergency and he accepts the link between climate change and an extended fire season.”

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/dec/12/scott-m orrison-says-he-has-acknowledged-the-impact-of-climate-chang e-on-bushfires-all-year-video
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December 15, 2019 8:37am
- JibberJabber
  
  The link, Beehive matches?https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/117638934/australian-police-catch-firelighting-children-as-queensland-bushfires-rage-on
  
  And given the fact that most of the Australian bush has evolved over millennia to need fire for germination, no one can trust the Climate “scientist” Bullshit.
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:57am
- Sydney Alvarado
  
  I can see why you are continually mocked on this blog.
  
  33 2
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  December 15, 2019 9:00am
  - Tall Man
    
    Ignored is a better method.
    
    When I first started on this blog I foolishly assumed steffy girl was a serious political poster but I eventually realised she was little more than an attention seeking troll, sometimes on but generally off the meds.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:59am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The penny is dropping that leaving Australia’s fire-prone forests decades to accumulate dead wood, bark and dry leaf litter f is an environmental time-bomb.
  
  http://joannenova.com.au/2019/12/nsw-is-kindling-to-go-accumulated-fuel-is-an-environmental-time-bomb/
  
  The penny is dropping that Australians need dams, need sensible forest management practices, and
  need large barriers between houses and fire-prone vegetation.
  
  Australia is a place of great extremes. The history books tell of Captain Cook sailing past the Australian coast and seeing regular billows of smoke and fire. We need to manage these extremes as best we can, by dealing with the risks.
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/my-country-community-wants-practical-talk-not-debates-about-climate-20191213-p53jvc.html
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:16am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    I saw one Aussie pointing out that the authorities had no cut fire breaks in a certain area as they had in the past. In other words not managing/limiting the potential outbreak of fires on a wider scale and how they could be managed.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:54am
    - Tall Man
      
      Brian I watched a small bush fire in WA many years ago jump a highway with what would have been a 50 meter break on each side so a total jump well over 100 meters. It was more of a grass saltbush fire so no big trees with embers blowing around.
      
      It showed the foolishness of living in the bush in certain parts of Aussie. The snakes convinced me as well.
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:03am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Apparently the embers can be carried at high altitudes over 3km!
        Living in the Blue Mountains is not for the faint hearted or underinsured.
        
        11 0
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        December 15, 2019 12:02pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        I just needed to hear about the snakes to be convinced TM.
        
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        December 16, 2019 2:20pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    MW, , Joanne and you need to ask those who are in the real know bearing the brunt of climate change – Aussie Farmers ,
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47890319
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    All caused by Greenies with flaky ideas? No firebreaks, no clearing dead trees/scrub. Natural decomposing and composting? Planting too many trees close to housing?
    
    15 1
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    December 15, 2019 12:17pm
  - IC5000
    
    No money in the kitty for these sorts of luxuries. Need to keep to the basics like new stadiums and light rail. Who needs to fund the Rural Fire Service properly when you can implement a robodebt program that is both illegal and costs as much to implement as it claws backs.
    
    The fires are occurring in rural areas where they voted for the Coalition so they’ll actually be receiving direct feedback on how they voted.
    
    But don’t worry Morrison will pray for you.
    
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    December 15, 2019 5:09pm
- Notsofast
  
  Good on you Stephieboy2.
  It is a fascinating message board, where facts are down ticked for fun and pleasure.
  Perplexing.
  
  2 25
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  December 15, 2019 10:51am
  - John Warren
    
    You ain’t from around these parts, are ya?
    
    10 0
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    December 15, 2019 12:47pm
    - Tall Man
      
      He thinks lundy is a good guy… Nuff said?
      
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      December 15, 2019 2:24pm
oldpark

Reflecting on the Wellington City Councillors recent decisions. Yes a great Christmas Present for the long suffering Ratepayers,think again.
Led by the Christmas grinches in the Lie-bour/ Green Cabal to name some of the political pests in that Council .
Yes Fleur Fitzimons, Liebour, Iona Pannet, Greens of course. Also not forgetting the so called Independent Jill Day from Tawa. They all voted to make sure that Wellingtons’ grid locked Traffic would stay that way. They voted against a second Traffic Tunnel . The alternative crazy light rail . That puts the boot into the myth. “Lets get Wellington moving”.
Pity when they were desperate for votes at the last Council Election they kept quiet on that one .
All a bloody disgrace for the City of Wellington.
that type of decision was a huge kick in the guts for their supporters where most Labour and Greens have a political strangehold over voters.
Talk about biting the hand that fed them .Nuff said.
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December 15, 2019 8:37am
- igm
  
  These losers are elected by non-ratepayers. Do we not now need to address this disgusting blight on our democracy.
  No rates demand, no vote . . . simple!
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:56am
  - Batman
    
    No.
    
    4 19
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    December 15, 2019 8:59am
  - Ian Boag
    
    That would cut out all the oldies in retirement villages ….. possibly not what you had in mind?
    
    4 19
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    December 15, 2019 9:00am
    - igm
      
      Many are owner/occupiers so they would qualify. As I stated, no rates demand, no vote.
      
      18 4
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      December 15, 2019 9:13am
      - Ian Boag
        
        “Licence to occupy”. Not owners ….
        
        2 3
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        December 15, 2019 11:43am
      - Steve Todd
        
        I can’t believe I’m writing this, Ian, but I agree with igm.
        
        I own shares in a company – mortgage paid off – which entitles me to occupy my flat, in a block of flats.
        
        I do not receive a rates demand – our body corp / property manager, receives that, and pays it, on behalf of the individual shareholders.
        
        That being the case, when igm gets his way, I think he would not object to me continuing to vote in local elections – always assuming, of course, that, given his dream scenario is not imminent, I’m still here.
        
        5 1
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        December 15, 2019 12:17pm
  - Sydney Alvarado
    
    Yeah that is not going to happen Do you have a Plan B?
    
    9 1
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    December 15, 2019 9:01am
    - Tall Man
      
      I think he’s relying on the “mass extinction” numbnuts achieving their goal……..
      
      4 1
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      December 15, 2019 9:56am
  - curry4me
    
    Or, two voting forms for each rate payer.
    
    1 0
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    December 15, 2019 2:57pm
Stephieboy2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Definitely one to put under the Christmas tree for a fortunate family member or friend ,

The New Zealand Wars / Ngā Pakanga o Aotearoa by Vincent O’Malley

“O’Malley’s new book is an in-depth history of the mid-nineteenth century wars that make up a vital part of Aotearoa’s story, written to be accessible for anyone who wants to learn about the conflicts that determined how society in Aotearoa functions, and still affect us today.”

http://unitybooks.nz/counterculture/afterglow-the-new-zealand-wars-by-vincent-omalley/
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December 15, 2019 8:44am
- JibberJabber
  
  If it is being promoted by you, then it is obviously revisionist claptrap and not even worth looking at the frontispiece.
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:59am
- Nostradamus
  
  Speaking of Christmas trees, Stephieboy, you’d better start planning your next trip: What’s on this Christmas at Westfield St Lukes. The “12 Days of Hide and Seek with Elf on the Shelf” looks like something that you’d be into!
  
  25 2
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  December 15, 2019 9:01am
  - Swifty
    
    Or this:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSEebm8Rtc&list=RDlnSEebm8Rtc&index=1
    
    🙂
    
    14 0
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    December 15, 2019 9:11am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Where is this fictional ‘Aotearoa’ of which you speak?
  
  47 3
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  December 15, 2019 9:07am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Right under your feet !
    
    2 39
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    December 15, 2019 10:01am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Don’t know what you’re talking about. New Zealand is under my feet.
      
      32 4
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      December 15, 2019 10:37am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Your fat arse is sitting on it.
    
    1 38
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    December 15, 2019 10:21am
    - Tall Man
      
      Couch… Oh I see, you judge others by yourself… Isn’t that transference.
      
      What happens next year when labour is bye bye and sexual assault is a crime again? Do you just get more sneaky?
      
      10 1
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      December 15, 2019 1:34pm
- Overworked
  
  Ah Stephie, I’ve finally got you sussed! You work at Unity Books – it all falls into place.
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:09am
  - Tall Man
    
    steffy work…. Now you’re just taking the piss.
    
    22 2
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    December 15, 2019 9:55am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Reading wide and well obviously not your forte?
    
    Comic book shop up the road catering to your tastes!
    
    0 30
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    December 15, 2019 10:03am
    - alloytoo
      
      “Reading wide and well obviously not your forte?
      
      Comic book shop up the road catering to your tastes!”
      
      Well that statement tells us you know very little about either medium.
      
      7 0
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      December 15, 2019 2:14pm
  - sooty
    
    Employed just to go around and turn all of Cindys books the right way around after all the naughty right wingers have turned them!
    
    24 1
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    December 15, 2019 10:08am
LTA1955

The silent majority in NZ better get their combined shit together and vote this bunch of Maxists out next year. You have been warned
51 0
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December 15, 2019 8:44am
- LTA1955
  
  *Marxists…..na Communists is better!
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:55am
  - Tall Man
    
    I think it is well underway.
    
    15 2
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    December 15, 2019 9:54am
- ISeeRed
  
  I have my doubts. The majority of people I interact with appear to be sheep that can walk on their hind legs, politically speaking.
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:40am
  - Tall Man
    
    Stop hanging about at labour parties then.
    
    14 1
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    December 15, 2019 10:31am
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  LTA1955, anticipating leading a Dads Army Junta?
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:05am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Working on it.
  ☑️☑️
  
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  December 15, 2019 12:06pm
CJames

The old maxim about politics is always follow the money. Here is what it is for climate change
https://rclutz.wordpress.com/2018/12/06/follow-the-climate-money/
Lets you know why certain groups say the things they do
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December 15, 2019 9:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  very interesting how the financial elites are directing so much of the Carbon $$$$$. redistribution
  
  I don’t think the climate-warriors realise that they are stooges of the very, very rich.
  
  Even in little NZ, we see pressure going on ACC and the Super Fund to divert our(tax-payer) savings into the coffers of the greedy mega-wealthy.
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/12/08/935487/acc-act-together-climate
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:32am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maggy, I may be a little slow….. at times very slow, but logic would dictate that all this climate bullshit should have been picked up by the “right” if there is such a thing, as it is a money go round and has big numbers, well over ardern’s finger and toe counting yet it is the left that have run with it making themselves the simple minded stooges as you say.
    
    Is it the fact that by using climate as a front they get to interfere and “control” our lives a little more or is it that they just as thick as a brick?
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:53am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Yes, that’s exactly what the left has done – and the right has left them a clear field to do it in.
      
      Addressing climate change does not require intensive state control, intrusive interference in people’s lives and mass impoverishment. There are sensible, scientifically and economically rational ways of doing it.
      
      But those are not being discussed, developed, promoted or implemented – because the right, normally a defender of rational, economically literate and evidence based policy making, is too busy instead desperately defending the increasingly insane proposition that almost every scientist, political party and media outlet in the world is in a gigantic conspiracy to deliberately promulgate a lie which requires governments to take measures which are ruinously expensive and politically unpopular (at the expense of populist policies likely to get votes), which governments don’t want to implement and which none of them has.
      
      This is a theory which would require thousands if not millions of individuals to be in on it, not one of whom has become disgruntled, has a grudge against a former employer, wants to undermine his political opponents or has a vengeful ex partner to spill the beans.
      
      When the scientific evidence finally becomes too overwhelming to dismiss and the case for action is no longer arguable, the left will have answers ready – ruinous, ineffective, counterproductive answers – and the right will have nothing.
      
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      December 15, 2019 10:55am
      - Tall Man
        
        And as thick as bricks 😉
        
        3 1
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        December 15, 2019 12:00pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        No conspiracy, just 1000s of individuals discovering and grasping an opportunity to make money from promoting a scare – wheras there’s no money or power to be had in being truthful about it’s negligible real impacts.
        
        4 0
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        December 15, 2019 5:08pm
    - The King
      
      Save the climate give Elon Musk more tax carbon credits so he can buy his second private jet..that flys by its self!.
      
      12 2
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      December 15, 2019 11:19am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    MW,”the financial elites ” ??
    
    Like the sponsors of the Heartland Institute??
    
    https://climateinvestigations.org/who-is-paying-for-heartland-institute-climate-denial-palooza/
    
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    December 15, 2019 12:40pm
Swifty

The latest from Steven Joyce:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/118199148/hey-big-spender–why-were-spending-more-but-have-nothing-to-show-for-it

We made a big mistake in 2017 letting Bill and his team go.

Read it and weep.
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December 15, 2019 9:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  To all those people who voted for Peters because he was going to “keep National honest”, thanks for bloody nothing!
  
  I loved this from Joyce, which is right on the money:
  
  Many of us have friends or family members that just “aren’t good with money”.
  
  They earn a good income but somehow it all slips through their fingers and they never have anything to show for it except a maxxed out credit card.
  
  This government is starting to look like one of those friends.
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:37am
  - Doubledimp
    
    There are some great sledges in that article,…
    
    “handing the Greens the keys to the transport portfolio”
    “operated a revolving door into and out of its boardroom”
    “Flights of fancy about far-away ports”
    
    Fantastic article, would love to see some infographics that highlight the lead time for projects such as those mentioned, and explains how only a third of the money can be spent.
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:49am
Andrei

The latest Government iniative to combat climate change: Subsidized Electric bikes for public servants
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December 15, 2019 9:20am
- Wangas Feral
  
  Just what I need when I am cycling to and from work in Wellington when I am down there. More fat sheilas on electric bikes barrelling along on bikes they cannot control or know how to stop.
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:42am
  - DigNap15
    
    We can only hope that a few of them end up under a bus or truck so tat they finally realsise cycle lanes are a waste of time and space and money.
    
    7 3
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    December 15, 2019 12:32pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I don’t hope that any cyclist ends up under a bus or a truck, but that is a real likelihood when cycling in and around Wellington (and other towns).
      
      9 0
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      December 15, 2019 2:01pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      They should test them like Lime scooters do and use a system like that as a trial. Mind you I am not keen on other people’s bike seats.
      
      2 0
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      December 15, 2019 3:12pm
- sooty
  
  Paid for by the long suffering taxpayer, yet again!
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:10am
  - fernglas
    
    From reading the article, they aren’t subsidised, they are being obtained at a discounted price. As I read it, the taxpayer won’t fork over a penny or even a farthing, but of course, I may be reading it all wrong.
    
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    December 15, 2019 1:54pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Andrei, why not?
  
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  December 15, 2019 10:11am
  - Andrei
    
    I can think of better things to spend my money on than urban elitist status symbols for public servants.
    
    27 2
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    December 15, 2019 10:50am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Cost-benefit analysis. The same money would do more good spent on almost any other climate change or other wellbeing measure
    
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    December 15, 2019 10:57am
JibberJabber

One of the few times Grant has made me laugh,
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10550099/hugh-grant-candidates-failed-to-win/

Hugh Grant endorsement…the Kiss of Death.
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December 15, 2019 9:22am
- slijmbal
  
  I vaguely knew Grant in the early 80s and he was a significantly bigger upper class Tory twit than Boris even. I can only assume he follows the standard famous and rich approach of once they’re well off they can afford socialist ideals.
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:08am
- lifesgood
  
  I’ve got two words to say to him – Divine Brown. I mean, how can anyone take the man seriously?
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:21am
  - Tall Man
    
    https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2014/2/20/1392901990360/Divine-Brown-009.jpg
    
    Not the best choice for a bit of rumpy pumpy….. or “hoovering” 😉
    
    11 1
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    December 15, 2019 11:59am
- krazykiwi
  
  Back in August, Hugh Grant tweeted:
  
  You will not fuck with my children’s future. You will not destroy the freedoms my grandfather fought two world wars to defend. Fuck off you over-promoted rubber bath toy. Britain is revolted by you and you little gang of masturbatory prefects.
  
  And the result? Well as noted above, every single candidate he endorsed and supported – including with door-to-door campaigning – lost their seat.
  
  Vile, deluded and hopelessly out-of-touch.
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:14pm
Maggie Pie

LOL! A friend from Mass has just forwarded me this twitter link: ……..

There have been many articles in the MSM, both here and overseas, which describe Jacinda Adhern as being both ‘smart’, and ‘extremely perceptive’.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELopcqCU8AEyzOc?format=jpg&name=medium
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December 15, 2019 9:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Birds of a feather, and all that…
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:45am
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Tony Stuart , like here too?
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/jacinda-ardern-donald-trump-meeting-us-president-takes-interest-in-gun-buy-back.html
    
    LOL!
    
    1 44
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    December 15, 2019 10:11am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Trump will now know what a fiasco the gun buy-back has been, and won’t touch it with a barge-pole. Just another Labour failure in the Year of Delivery.
      
      35 2
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      December 15, 2019 10:23am
      - Stephieboy2
        
        “Is it the fact that by using climate as a front they get to interfere and “control” our lives”
        
        You mean a factoid?
        
        1 22
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        December 15, 2019 12:34pm
- Tall Man
  
  She certainly knows how to pick a winner.
  
  Oh hang on that was “what’s in it for wynston”… Sorry, my bad, all he knows how to do is pick up a cheque……..
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:46am
- Scooter
  
  Did her top get mixed up in Neve’s nappies?
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:41pm
Odakyu-sen

“Climate Change” is a useful guise that allows wealthy countries to give money to client countries (for whatever reason) while appearing virtuous.

For example, Japan “giving” billions to India “for climate change”…. OK… Let’s go with that.

Japan gets what it wants from India, while looking virtuous. India is happy too. What’s not to like?
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December 15, 2019 10:53am
- Albert_Ross
  
  If the money will save more carbon spent in India than it would if it was spent in Japan, then that is indeed a good way for Japan to address climate change.
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:36am
- Stephieboy2
  
  “for example, Japan “giving” billions to India “for climate change”…
  
  How doos it manifest itself exactly?
  
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  December 15, 2019 12:36pm
  - MH
    
    the cows will be rounded up and made to eat curry.
    
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    December 15, 2019 2:55pm
oldfella

Guess we never will find out what’s in that Coalition agreement. Unless we can find a whistleblower to leak it to the fearless local MSM who’ll rush to publish it.
Sorry … must have forgotten to take my meds. Why else would I use the words ‘fearless’ and ‘MSM’ in the same sentence?
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December 15, 2019 11:01am
JibberJabber

Cop a load of this entitled cretin,
https://twitter.com/addicted2newz/status/1205859355041697792

She`s wearing the wrong Tee shirt, this one is more appropriate,
https://twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1205031764319711232/photo/1
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December 15, 2019 11:25am
Inandout

I don’t know if this has been mentioned beforehand, but Greta seems to be a fraud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWsfGwUhfaU

‘Do as I say, not what I do’.
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December 15, 2019 11:26am
- Tall Man
  
  Well done that man.
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:55am
- MH
  
  time mag person of the year….
  how, read you.
  
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  December 15, 2019 2:57pm
Wanderingkiwi

What a disgraceful comment by Economist Shamubeel Eaqub in today’s stuff article https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118174774/pension-for-kids-could-level-income-inequality-between-young-and-old
Where he makes a highly offensive statement referring to our elderly people as “decrepit old folk”.
Here he is quoted referring to means testing pensions:

“If I had my way you’d take it away from the decrepit old folk and give it to the young ones. Make super means-tested and a benefit for children unconditional. Older people don’t need it, they have money.”

This is completely unacceptable and I have made a complaint to the Human Rights commission and encourage anyone to do the same.

What ever your opinion on means testing pensions, the argument should never be that all elderly people are “decrepit” or that a persons frailty or infirmness means they are worth less to society.
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December 15, 2019 12:07pm
- The King
  
  >Shamubeel Eaqub – immigrant
  
  Calls..
  
  > the people who built this country, worked hard all their life for what they have – decrepit old folk
  
  Its so shocking nobody could of predicted it.
  
  You boomers need to rise up if not for yourselves for your grandchildren, they are going to get this worse than you.
  
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  December 15, 2019 2:31pm
  - The King
    
    However this is not the worst part, the worst part is this immigrant ‘economist’ wanting to remove the parent from funding the child to the state funding the child, so the child then becomes property beholden to the state.
    
    Nothing but pure unadulterated Communist economics.
    
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    December 15, 2019 2:53pm
- Tall Man
  
  And greta wants to put world leaders “against the wall”….
  
  What awesome empathetic people we have telling us how to live.
  
  https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/14/greta-thunberg-world-leaders-against-the-wall/
  
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  December 15, 2019 2:38pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The child pension is called WFF. That is paid solely on the basis of total family income and childrens’ ages.It is paid on the same basis to those in work and those supported, including superannuitants with children.
  More would be nice but someone has to pay for it out of production not borrowing.
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:43pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Eaqub is Robertsons mouthpiece, so the chances are this is what Robertson has in store for NZ, along with euthanasia this fits in with the LabourGreen vision for the future of NZ.
  Eaqub is just testing the waters for Labours wishlist.
  
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  December 15, 2019 4:50pm
Tall Man

A couple of days ago a mods told me to “grow up” and the poking fun at the disabled or similar isn’t done.

Those of you who bothered to read what was left of my comment would have seen that my disgust was clearly aimed at those who not only enable her top make a fool of herself but actually drive the poor kid like she’s a Tonka toy in a sandpit.

greta herself on numerous occasions has referred to her mental condition so I think assuming that she has a mental illness is not too far from the truth. When someone uses their condition for advancement or to reinforce their point I believe they have opened that door for counter argument.

I was also offered a 1 month holiday for continuing to push my comment concerning ardern’s proclivity to lie with a stern reprimand from that mod and I can only assume it was the same mod.

I defended that position and do so clearly today.

Prior to March 15 I had a habit that would have me signing off to steffy with… well, those around at the time will remember and I was told/asked to cease and desist and only to use the phrase “ardern is a liar” or similar as part of the relevant discussion and in context. This I have done as far as possible although there may be the odd time when the relevancy is a stretch but isn’t that the very nature of a “blog”?

Yesterday’s comment from the mod seemed to indicate that the instruction I should have received was thus “You persistently push the boundaries on DPF’s proscription of caling pollies liars”

Now that is contrary to what I believed was correct and in all fairness, refraining calling politicians liars is pretty tough as that is the primary characteristic of all of them, not just ardern.

As requested yesterday, can we have clarification or confirmation that calling a politician a liar is now banned and that will be applied consistently or that my original premise was correct and using it in context or for clarification is allowed…….

Or is just easier to deleted this comment 🙂
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December 15, 2019 12:11pm
- cmm
  
  For some reason I have never been pulled over for calling Ardern the liar that she is.
  
  Heck, even DPF has given in to using the L-word.
  
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  December 15, 2019 1:06pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Perhaps you’re taller than I….
    
    I demand a recount.
    
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    December 15, 2019 1:30pm
- The King
  
  Some mod is going through all my past posts and deleting them. My last post here just got ghosted.
  
  Just come and let it all out buddy, you don’t have have power over me. Why are you hiding just come and say it, are you scared?
  
  You’re not my first rodeo bud.
  
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  December 15, 2019 1:44pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Looks like they are putting out the welcome mat for you over at “Your NZ”.
    https://yournz.org/2019/12/15/open-forum-15-december/#comment-389302
    
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    December 15, 2019 4:06pm
    - The King
      
      It’s not another boomer blog from Hamilton like Chris Roberts aka holysheet at ysb is it?
      
      I lost my tongue at “the home of free speech”
      
      Ill give it ago, only because he’s telling the owner to “beware of The King”
      
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      December 15, 2019 4:21pm
    - The King
      
      Jesus h Christ Maggy the second post on that blog talks about “eliminating muslim women and children”
      
      And i’m the bad guy?
      
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      December 15, 2019 4:39pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It’s frightening.
        
        Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do
        
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        December 15, 2019 5:46pm
      - Jack5
        
        The ❗ King ? is either the banned ? Kea❗ rehatched or she/he is a doppelganger for Kea.
        
        Same virulent anti-Semitism, same beginning with relatively benign wit. Then a steady building up of more and more extravagant opinions until they become a self-consuming tornado.
        
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        December 15, 2019 9:26pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      What is a “rant about the Jews” though? How do you define a “rant”? Normally, that word is used to simply denote something one disagrees with, which is of course subjective, and to shut them up, regardless of the factual merit of the propositions involved.
      
      In the States, Judaism (and with it the scope of anti-Semitism) has recently been redefined by Trump’s Executive Order as a nationality, not just a religion, with the effect that colleges can now have their funding cut if they allow BDS protests on campus. Why? America isn’t Israel. This is closely analogous to Massey shutting down anti-Chinese sentiment recently, which brought much opprobrium on this site.
      
      Also re: BDS, why will the US Government not issue contracts to anyone who criticises Israel, a foreign nation?
      
      Why are APAC, ADL etc. such openly ubiquitous players and lobbyists in Washington, hosting large numbers of Representatives – from both parties – at their annual events and conferences?
      
      Why does Israel receive 3.8 billion US dollars in aid every year, more than any other country?
      
      Why, when the Dems and GOP cannot agree on the colour of the sky, do none of them ever criticise Israel in any way shape or form, for fear of their careers ending on accusations of ‘anti-Semitism’?
      
      Why is any mention of these facts automatically labelled ‘hate speech’ and ‘anti-Semitism’ when they merely concern observable, open and verifiable behavioral facts, and say nothing whatsoever about the religion of Judaism itself, nor any inherent immutable characteristics of Jews as an ethnicity? Critically examining facts concerning the activities of some Jewish people is not anti-Semitic as to the whole of the Jewish people. Why are they so sensitive to any criticism whatsoever?
      
      I welcome some answers to these questions.
      
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      December 15, 2019 4:52pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        *AIPAC
        
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        December 15, 2019 5:01pm
      - The King
        
        I can answer every one of your questions, but they won’t be allowed.
        
        The last country to make anti-semitism a capital offense was Bolshevik Russia… Right before they murdered 11 million people.
        
        1 2
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        December 15, 2019 5:16pm
      - Jack5
        
        Yep, Your Highness, The King – the same old Kea bull crap that the Russian Reds were Jewish.
        
        You can point out to him again and again that the minority of the Bolsheviks were Jewish, remind King/Kea of Stalin’s “Jewish doctors” plot, but it’s water off the mountain parrot-duck’s back.
        
        The claims are pegged on Karl Marx’s alleged Jewishness. Marx’s parents, born Jews, converted to Lutherism before Karl Marx was born.
        
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        December 15, 2019 9:36pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A lie implies a statement of untruth knowing that it is untrue. Political statements are seldom lies being statements of belief or aspiration, perhaps fuzzy but not a deliberate misstatement of an actual known fact or forthcoming action. Our different viewpoint or consideration does not convert another person’s position into a lie. Deception or mis-statement may be unintentional or circumstantial.
  The word liar is best reserved for its real use. There is still plenty of ammo left to fire at an opponent. There is more choice to criticise too.
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:33pm
JibberJabber

Ok lads, I`m only going to show you how to do this once.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9nyQR_1576254676
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December 15, 2019 12:22pm
- Tall Man
  
  November 5 2020…. Coming to a town near you.
  
  What a device.
  
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  December 15, 2019 1:31pm
DigNap15

The Madrid confernce is proving to be a failure.
Many countries don’t want to ordered what to do by a bunch of left wing school kids
They want development for their countries.
So now they are looking forward to Glasgow and another two week waste of time
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December 15, 2019 12:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep, every December another talk-fest…
  
  26,000 folks on a junket to Spain this year…
  https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-which-countries-have-sent-the-most-delegates-to-cop25
  
  I wonder if Glasgow in winter will be such an attractive proposition.
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:39pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    MW,
    
    https://www.azquotes.com/quote/816791
    
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    December 15, 2019 3:43pm
Odakyu-sen

The New Zealand Herald’s editorial policy is to swap out the names of places to Te Reo ones, even when the Maori name may not be in common usage.

For example, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12293697 (Premium content)

The article begins, “When I went to Whakaari/White Island, it was to ….” and after that, “White Island” sinks beneath the text, never to be seen again.

It is subsumed by “Whakaari” which then goes on to appear 4 times as a stand-alone descriptor.

Who gave the Herald a mandate to re-cast the common language in this country?
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December 15, 2019 12:51pm
- Inandout
  
  Od, this is why our news media is dying, and soon the name changes won’t be read by anyone as we will all be online.
  
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  December 15, 2019 2:44pm
- kevn
  
  @Odakyu… nekminit there was a Waitangi claim on White Island?
  Odds on folks?
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:07pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It will rebound. We have these periodic seasons of silliness.
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:20pm
Odakyu-sen

This morning, The King commented “China for the Chinese, India for Indians, Japan for the Japanese.”

What do all these nations have in common?
They are all Old World, with written histories going back over a thousand years.
Each has (or had) its own religious institutions going back as long.
Each has a very large population, with teeming cities in the millions.
Each has a somewhat homogenous self-image (especially in Northeast Asia).

These three are so very different to the colony of New Zealand, a New World nation at the bottom of the world.

It is very hard to say “New Zealand for New Zealanders” with a straight face, because no-one can (without fear of criticism) state what it is to be a New Zealander.

How do you identify a New Zealander?
What are their defining qualities or characteristics?
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December 15, 2019 1:11pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  ” Japan for the Japanese”
  
  We know where all that lead to!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwxL0pk2A6s
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:37pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Stephieboy2,
    
    Ah yes… The double-edged sword of having a strong national identity.
    Love yourself too much and you run the risk of fearing, dehumanizing and hating the “other.”
    
    It’s all about maturity and having a balanced outlook on the world, mein Liebling.
    
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    December 15, 2019 5:07pm
  - The King
    
    Steph be like
    
    “My Ancestor”
    
    https://pics.me.me/my-ancestor-stares-in-derision-34372613.png
    
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    December 15, 2019 5:21pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Sony, Toyota, Toshiba, Nissan …..
    
    4 0
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    December 15, 2019 6:08pm
    - Jack5
      
      And we also know where Stephiestan for the Stephies led to …the malls of Auckland. ?
      
      10 0
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      December 15, 2019 6:15pm
- DigNap15
  
  We used to be able to.
  Until they opened our borders to the third world!
  
  They are not us!
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:13pm
- DigNap15
  
  Myanmar for the Burmese
  Hungary for the Hungarians
  Poland for the Poles!
  
  2 2
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  December 15, 2019 5:20pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    Germany for the Germans!
    
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    December 15, 2019 9:43pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  How do you identify a New Zealander?
  
  I was waiting in Suvarnabhumi Airport this July when I noticed 2 chaps that were obviously Indian, one wearing a Sikh Turban. I knew instantly that they were NZers and would probably be on my flight.
  
  And so it proved… with the turbanned chap seated next to me.
  
  The beige uniform was the giveaway.
  
  I asked him if he’d had a great time in London…he replied that watching the Blackcaps play at Lords was the best thing ever.
  
  I said I knew nothing about cricket…
  
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  December 15, 2019 7:29pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Maggy,
    “The beige uniform was the giveaway.”
    
    If he had been wearing a hand-knitted cardigan, socks and Roman sandles, then you would be able to definitely identify him as a New Zealander by his fashion sense alone.
    
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    December 15, 2019 8:53pm
Daniel

Does any one have a ball park figure on how much Jacinda Ardern’s partner, Clarke Gayford, would have been paid to promote people visiting White Island earlier this year? I note the Herald article promoting it, which was available a few days ago, has since been removed. Cached version is available from google though.

I hope the extra cash helped Jacinda with her bigger house.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/article.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=12224765
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December 15, 2019 1:22pm
- Tall Man
  
  You have to wonder why really.
  
  Would that all my previous fuckups could be wiped out like that.
  
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  December 15, 2019 2:21pm
  - Daniel
    
    Yes I was surprised they went back and removed the article. As if you can delete something that was published online. All it does is draw attention to the clean up, and asks questions…
    
    I note other articles about tourism on White Island have not been removed – only the article about Clarke Gayford.
    
    Why was it felt the need to remove Clarke’s paid promotion of tourism on White Island?
    Who requested the clean up?
    Can anyone get an article deleted, or is that a reserved privilege?
    
    18 1
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    December 15, 2019 4:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  and the Herald-on-Sunday version of his promo trip carries these ominous words from the Kahu Helicopter Pilot/Guide about the Crater lake:
  
  “That’s one of the top five most acidic lakes in the world, if a body went in there, its skin would slough in minutes…”
  https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/herald-on-sunday/20190428/282480005209785
  
  Might pay to screenshot this article.
  It’s bound to disappear when someone gets to the office 2moro.
  
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  December 15, 2019 3:58pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    woops…
    “slough off in minutes”
    
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    December 15, 2019 4:01pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      I read the article. What is the actual pH and at what concentration? I assume the acid would be sulphuric acid.
      
      2 0
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      December 15, 2019 7:11pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317967725_Hydrological_evolution_and_chemical_structure_of_a_hyper-acidic_spring-lake_system_on_White_Island_NZ
        
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        December 15, 2019 8:34pm
  - Stephieboy2
    
    MW, while your about taking cheap political shots you might try also and ask Todd Muller MP for Bay of Plenty !
    
    1 17
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    December 15, 2019 5:28pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      What’s cheap, stephieboy?
      
      There is going to be an investigation into this tragedy and the role of tourism operators and promoters will be coming into the spotlight.
      
      Check out this RNZ article
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018726609/media-probe-risks-and-rewards-of-tourism
      
      “I challenge Jacinda Arden to come out and have a look for herself,” Tom Storey told Patrick Gower.
      
      Tom Storey also said he took the PM’s partner Clarke Gayford to Whakaari /White Island to film for his TV fishing show last year.
      
      “I got her husband off safely. Let me get the rest,” he said on The Project.
      
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      December 15, 2019 7:51pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Daniel, why nottry a snoop scoop and email him?
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:19pm
noskire

Question: Did Ardern do an interview with Chris Lynch following the White Island tragedy?
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December 15, 2019 1:23pm
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/JoeAscroft1/status/1205703823467175936/photo/1
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December 15, 2019 1:28pm
The King

South Africas credit rating goes from stable to negative.

“government’s debt to GDP ratio from 56.2% for the current 2019/2020 year to 60.8%”

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/economy/2019-12-13-government-debt-surpasses-already-dire-estimates/
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December 15, 2019 2:04pm
- DigNap15
  
  yes African leaders are so good at running their countries!
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:12pm
- Stephieboy2
  
  Rather similar to Italy and the UK,
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_credit_rating
  
  Should all three get the apartheid or Forgotten fatherland treatment?
  
  https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-374-15759-3
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:15pm
curry4me

Enjoy these remoaner tears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIM03PD5Imw
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December 15, 2019 2:40pm
curry4me

Initial US-China trade deal in sight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy_HI2l4KnA
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December 15, 2019 2:41pm
- DigNap15
  
  So the USA is giving in.
  China buying more soya beans and pork is not enough.
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:19pm
MH

has anyone ever seen the Briscoes lady in store, its a scam I tell you. I;m 35 -60% sure.
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December 15, 2019 3:02pm
- greybeard
  
  Tammy, the Briscoes lady, has been around since the 1990s.
  She has assiduously promoted the Briscoes specials, for better or worse..
  
  When I moved to Wellington from Auckland in 1971 there was a leatherware/luggage retailer in Willis St, up the northern end, which had a permanent “Sale” sign in the window. They kept that sign there for about 40 years.
  Must be the longest “Sale” in history.
  The Briscoes Lady is much the same: same face, same messages, not so many close-ups.
  Interesting that after quite a few years hiatus they have resurrected her.
  
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  December 15, 2019 4:51pm
- peterwn
  
  Has anyone ever seen Betty Crocker run cooking classes?
  Farmers used to have Hector the parrot on display in their Hobson Street flagship store. Rumour was when Hector snuffed it, they found a look alike replacement.
  
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  December 15, 2019 7:55pm
JibberJabber

The bright new idea from the Doomers now is to introduce Rationing,
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-climate-crisis-is-like-a-world-war-so-lets-talk-about-rationing/

We`ve a long way to go before we hit Peak Climate Fuckwittery.
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December 15, 2019 4:07pm
- curry4me
  
  Doomers can take a flying leap.
  
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  December 15, 2019 11:31pm
mikenmildagain

May I please propose a round of applause for the moderators?
A largely thankless task, and latterly the object of persistent whingeing from some of the less-hinged Kiwibloggers.
This blog has been much better since the decision to enforce the standards in a uniform manner, rather than relying solely on complaints.
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December 15, 2019 4:11pm
- The King
  
  Stunning and brave endorsement right here folks.
  
  Somebody clap.
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:23pm
- Jack5
  
  Fairly true, Milky, but recently you said you had volunteered to become a moderator.
  
  Is this post part of your campaign? ?
  
  Uptick please by those who would like Milky to be Milky the Moderator:
  
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  December 15, 2019 5:55pm
- Tall Man
  
  Smarmy is the word you are looking for folks.
  
  The uniformity is what I was seeking and have asked for clarification.
  
  I’ve never considered myself as unhinged, but then I’ve never really considered you as hinged either.
  
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  December 15, 2019 9:54pm
  - Martin Williams
    
    You’re just nasty.
    
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    December 16, 2019 8:27am
- Martin Williams
  
  I see no difference in the commenting here. Just as unhinged and culturally divisive as it ever was and that it is still the case even under moderation doesn’t say much for the moderation.
  
  [Mod: We can moderate your comments more stringently if you want MW. Be careful what you wish for]
  
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  December 16, 2019 8:26am
Hugh Pavletich

… UPDATE … UNITED KINGDOM … PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON …

… Prime Minister Boris Johnson is going after the poorly performing public service …

… New Zealand suffers from the ‘British disease’ too … in bucket loads …

Boris Johnson plans radical overhaul of civil service to guarantee ‘people’s Brexit’ … Edward Malnick … UK Telegraph
… behind paywall …

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/14/boris-johnson-plans-radical-overhaul-civil-service-guarantee/

Boris Johnson is plotting a dramatic overhaul of Whitehall after his landslide election victory, in a drive to demonstrate that the Government “works for the people”.

Dominic Cummings, Mr Johnson’s chief aide, is to spearhead plans for radical reforms to the civil service, including a review of the processes for hiring and firing officials, to ensure Whitehall delivers the Prime Minister’s agenda.

He has previously complained that “almost no one is ever fired” in Whitehall, during a lecture in which he set out a “to-do list” he had maintained in case “I ever manage to get control of No 10.” It suggests Mr Johnson’s programme for the next five years is likely to be much more radical than the… read more via hyperlink above … (behind paywall) …
.
.
Access further information …

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/12/brexit_secured.html/comment-page-1#comment-2608397

… A ‘British disease’ New Zealand example … the Christchurch City Council …

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/12/general_debate_-_14_december_2019.html/comment-page-1#comment-2608134
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December 15, 2019 6:05pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Now for the Boris Johnson revolution: PM to reshape Britain … Tim Shipman … The UK Sunday times / The Australian
  
  https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/the-times/now-for-the-boris-johnson-revolution-pm-to-reshape-britain/news-story/6ff53916b72ec81858d1aec6809aac88
  
  Boris Johnson has drawn up plans to run a “revolutionary” government that will see ministers sacked, government departments abolished and civil servants replaced by external experts in a bid to “reshape” the economy.
  
  Up to a third of the cabinet face the sack in a February reshuffle after Brexit so that fresh faces can be brought in to create a “transformative” government focused on the needs of working-class voters who propelled him to a landslide victory last week.
  
  In the Queen’s speech on Thursday he will announce he is enshrining in law the government’s commitment to boost National Health Service spending by £33.9bn by 2023-24 — the first time a British government has made a spending commitment legally binding over several years. An extra £78bn is being earmarked to transform transport in the north of England with a blitz of new roads, bridges and buses. … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  December 15, 2019 8:54pm
Fletch

Scientists have created a bacteria that eats CO2.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/12/scientists-create-bacteria-that-can-eat-carbon-dioxide.html

Just imagine what the idiots will do with this. Or, what if it gets free? The next ice age…
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December 15, 2019 7:44pm
curry4me

AOC calls Bernie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEIm_W_8ULY
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December 15, 2019 8:05pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Yeah, read to the end..

– while the E.coli does consume CO2, researchers say overall it still produces more carbon dioxide than it consumes so it is not yet carbon-neutral.

Might pay to look at some photosynthetic bacteria.
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December 15, 2019 8:12pm

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