General Debate 2 November 2019

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mikenmildagain

Happy International Day to End Impunity for Crimes Against Journalists!
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November 2, 2019 8:00am
- SGA
  
  Not sure this is the right crowd for that.
  
  How about the day that long suffering Cubs fans finally got some relief?
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    It was a heck of a week to be in Chicago, that’s for sure. The place went off!
    
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    November 2, 2019 8:20am
- JibberJabber
  
  Happy International Day to End Impunity for Crimes Against Journalism.
  
  There, fixed it for you.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:29am
- Stephen Russell
  
  I am really looking forward to International Day for Nothing Whatsoever.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:49am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The US has National Nothing Day on 16 January. Perhaps people in other countries always have something to do. Not Catholics, of course – every day is dedicated to some spurious ‘saint’.
    
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    November 2, 2019 8:58am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Already allocated. February 6th, known locally as National Grievance Day .
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:07am
    - GoVege
      
      Should be called National Ingratitude Day, Paulus… 🙂
      
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      November 2, 2019 12:58pm
- G152
  
  How about a day to remember those damaged by journalists with their fake news agendas ?????
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:07am
  - freethinker
    
    That’s everyday.
    
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    November 2, 2019 12:33pm
- Doubledimp
  
  Speaking of crimes against journalists, I watched “The Post” on netflix last night, Tom Hanks and Meryl Streep. Thought it would be in the vein of “All the presidents men” or shades of “The Fifth Estate”. Ended up using a journalism setting to frame a “woman in a mans world oh weren’t we sexist back then” narrative. Disappointed, the journalism and the debate around freedom of press vs security were just a side show.
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:35am
  - Batman
    
    You know that’s what actually happened right?
    
    It’s part of the story.
    
    Sorry if a female character being important, damaged your fragile masculinity.
    
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    November 2, 2019 10:59am
    - suzieq
      
      Absolutely right.
      
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      November 2, 2019 2:22pm
- Straight arrow
  
  United Nations:
  “In the past twelve years more than 1,000 journalists have been killed for reporting the news and bringing information to the public. In nine out of ten cases the killers go unpunished. Impunity leads to more killings and is often a symptom of worsening conflict and the breakdown of law and judicial systems.”
  
  The “journalists” in NZ think they are in the same class as those in the above quote — they are not. They think they are the fourth estate — they are not. They claim to be unbiased — they are not. They claim to represent society — they do not.
  (My use of “they” does not mean “all”)
  
  Especially disgusting are those “journalists” (and others) who list iwi affiliation in bio, as if that is relevant to being a journalist. I should list my star sign.
  
  Worse, is that while a few break a story every year, other “journalists” use that as a reason why the profession should be publically funded.
  
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  November 2, 2019 1:36pm
Steve Todd

The following is Part Two of my thoughts regarding Justin Lester’s application for a recount of the votes in the Wellington Mayoral election. It carries straight on from where I left off yesterday. (Part Three tomorrow morning.)

Mr Lester is also seeking a complete manual recount of all 60,435 valid voting documents (and 87 informal voting documents). That is an unreasonable request. Not only would it be quite impracticable (and costly) to carry out, it is well-known that manual counts are likely to be less accurate than computer counts.

In this regard, consider the following. If you go through this Local Government Elections code of good practice, put out by the Society of Local Government Managers (SOLGM) in 2013, especially pages 25–29 (recognising preferences – allow / disallow); 30–37 (Simpson Grierson legal opinion); and 83–85 (processing STV preferences), particularly point 4 (preference capture by page scanning), you will see that the vote-processing procedures are rigorous, and indeed robust (as the electoral officer has previously asserted).

When you see the care that is taken to make sure that as many votes as possible count towards the outcome, and are correctly entered into the computer, you will likely conclude, I’m sure, as I have, that the possibility of mistakes being made is very slight.

Once all the vote-data has been captured, the STV calculator will produce the same result, every time it is run. That cannot be said, with 100% confidence, of manual STV counts and recounts, especially those involving many thousands of voting documents (not to mention many people, all of whom are trying to act in a coordinated manner).

(Many of you will remember the Reg Boorman-Wyatt Creech slugfest following the 1987 election. As I recall, the FPP votes were (manually) counted several times and they got a different result each time. Subsequently, some votes were disqualified, and others allowed in, but my point is made.)

Lester’s stated reason for wanting a manual recount, is “to make sure that all those votes [i.e., including the 302 by-then scrutinised partially informal votes] have been counted correctly.” This is nonsense, of course. A manual recount, involving many voting documents being processed by many people (who are carrying out their tasks for the very first time), and taking up to two weeks to complete, would give no such assurance.

Not only would a manual recount of 60,000+ votes be quite problematic (considering that a single-seat STV manual count of that magnitude has never been performed in New Zealand before), but it is unnecessary. I say that because, as I have said here before, I have already proved (in 2004) that the STV calculator has been programmed correctly, and therefore will give the correct result, based on the vote-inputs, every time.

To see this, click on http://www.prsa.org.au/meek_stv.htm, then click on ‘6. Documents from Stephen Todd’. Then click on ‘Example’, to see the Cargill Ward count in Dunedin in 2004, reproduced in meticulous detail. Then, click on ‘the calculator report’, and compare the two.

It is not as daunting as it may first appear. All you have to do, is compare the vote-totals for selected candidates at any point in the count, to see that the documents agree, precisely, every step of the way. (In this regard, the calculator report only gives those iterations where candidates were elected or excluded from the count. In order to produce my Cargill Ward document, I had to pick my way through every iteration. The calculations in respect of any given iteration, after the first, are dependent on those made at the immediately preceding iteration.)

To examine, once again, all of the 60,435 valid votes (and 87 informal votes), before a manual recount begins, would be a huge task. That, alone, could take two or three days.

As to the recount itself, that, as I say, could take up to two weeks to perform, given that the people involved would be learning as they go, and because it would involve carefully tabulating voting documents at every iteration, and shuffling up to 20,282* pieces of paper from one pile of votes to another, several times. (The potential for mistakes to be made, by people who are unlikely to be completely confident about what they’re doing, is obvious.)

* 60,435 votes, minus the 20,830 first-preference votes given for Lester and the 19,323 first-preference votes given for Foster (which stayed with them throughout the count).

And, to help facilitate that process, I imagine the 20,282 Mayoral / Ward voting documents (on the LHS, front and back, of the A3 sheets of paper), that would actually be physically transferred from one pile of votes to another, would first need to be separated from the GWRC / DHB voting documents; a sizeable job in itself.

So, if the judge were to require all 60,522 votes to be re-examined / scrutinised, so be it. But, if no changes are made as to the interpretation of the information on them (which would very likely be the case), then a manual recount becomes unnecessary – we know the STV calculator has already produced the correct result.

A manual recount would be a complete waste of time (and money), and would not, in all likelihood, produce a result that could be 100% relied on (especially if it differed from the result produced by the STV calculator).
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November 2, 2019 8:01am
- Steve Todd
  
  The Code of Good Practice pdf link didn’t work. My apologies. If you’re interested in accessing it, just google ‘SOLGM Vote Counting and Processing Code of Good Practice’, and click on the third link. It is Part 15, etc.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:14am
- Stephen Russell
  
  Thanks again for this interesting and detailed analysis.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:52am
- artemisia
  
  On local government recounts and tiebreakers, the post at the below link by poonzteam5443 is well worth a read. One of the four candidates involved does not emerge well.
  
  pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/one-tie-breaker-ended-in-hugs-another-was-denounced-as-mana-diminishing-and-the-result-was-reversed-by-a-recount/#more-4090
  
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  November 2, 2019 2:50pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Unfortunately, I couldn’t see / find poonzteam5443’s post. No matter.
    
    Ties are not a problem with STV.
    
    Firstly, the ‘Ahead at First Difference’ rule is used. For example, if Justin and Andy had finished up with 27,333 votes each, instead of 27,302 and 27,364, respectively, Justin would have been declared the winner, because he was leading at the count of first preferences, 20,830 votes to 19,323.
    
    If, however, they both had exactly the same number of votes each, through all eight iterations of the count (which, of course, is extremely unlikely to happen in a public election – the chances of it happening are astronomically high), then the Pseudo Random Number (PRN) Generation method kicks in.
    
    At the first iteration, Justin’s PRN might have been calculated as 16832, so, 10000 – 6832 = 3168. Andy’s PRN might have been calculated as 11985, so 10000 – 1985 = 8015. At the second iteration, their numbers are flipped, i.e., Justin 10000 – 3168 = 6832, Andy 10000 – 8015 = 1985, respectively. At the third iteration, they flip back to their first-iteration numbers, being 3168 and 8015, respectively.
    
    That would mean that, at the final iteration, iteration 8, Justin’s PRN would be 6832, and Andy’s would be 1985. Andy, having the lower PRN, would be excluded and Justin would be declared the winner.
    
    Whichever method is used, it’s all done as part of the count. No-one’s mana is ever diminished.
    
    See clause 19 and Part 5, here: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2001/0145/latest/DLM57125.html.
    
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    November 2, 2019 4:46pm
krazykiwi

Maldives has 11 airports. And they’re opening another 5 by the end of this year, presumably just in time for them to slip beneath the rising seas.

Remember, ten years ago the government of the Maldives conducted a well-staged, under-water cabinet meeting, where they signed the climate change accord document in advance of Copenhagen. Their rhetoric hasn’t let up since then, for example, with the Maldivian Minister of Foreign Affairs saying earlier this year saying

Let me just say this. WE DO NOT HAVE TIME. For countries like the Maldives, we simply do not have the luxury of waiting and hoping.
:::
And I must say that, today, after several years, the prospects for our future are far worse than we imagined then.

Why the hypocrisy? Well, bluntly His Excellency Abdulla Shahidwant wants our government to hand cash to the UN so they can hand some of it to Maldives. This is the UNs business model. Un-elected taxers of stage-managed guilt.
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November 2, 2019 8:01am
- Nukuleka
  
  My flatmate is currently home in the Maldives visiting family. His home is on the beach on a low lying atoll. Absolutely no indication that anything is amiss with sea levels, according to him. Life is going on as always.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:16am
  - Ruahine
    
    Get Greta and her entourage to visit the Maldives immediately.
    
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    November 2, 2019 8:40am
    - ldypen
      
      HOW DARE YOU!
      
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      November 2, 2019 10:30am
      - tf78
        
        It’s funny how Greta has turned “How Dare You” into a joke.
        
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        November 2, 2019 11:53am
      - sooty
        
        She is the joke!
        
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        November 2, 2019 1:29pm
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    I also know people from Maldives who tell me sea levels arent a problem
    
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    November 2, 2019 8:49am
  - rockape
    
    I was there in 1967 at addu attoll which was RAF Ghan, a staging post to the far east. It was pretty low then. One of the problems was with the increase in tourism the blew up coral to use as a building material to build hotels and wondered why there was some coastal erosion.
    
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    November 2, 2019 10:08am
- Simon
  
  Climate Change: The Maldives Mystery
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p51t2MHcms
  
  Good vid on revealed preferences as opposed to what people say. Apparently Maldives was doomed and supposed to be under water by 2030 but investment and people have poured in.
  
  Maldives shows two things. That Climate Change is fraud / junk science and the people know it is fraud.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:40am
  - stephieboy
    
    Simon,
    
    For low-lying island states, the impacts of global warming and climate change can be a matter of survival.
    
    The irony is that while these states have not contributed much to greenhouse emissions, as they produce very little, they may face some of the worst consequences.
    
    Maldives is no stranger to the risks from climate change. It is already witnessing an increase in intense rainfall and resultant flooding, cyclonic winds and storm surges.
    
    As one of the lowest-lying countries in the world, with all its people living a few meters above sea level and over two-thirds of its critical infrastructure lying within 100 meters of the shoreline, a sea level rise of just a few meters will put the nation further at risk, endangering its relative prosperity….”
    
    https://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/bracing-climate-change-matter-survival-maldives
    
    Junk Science? Refer to the real stuff – Antony Watts , Michael Delingpole , Chistopher Monckton etc
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:35am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Talking shit again steph.
      Any sea level rise in the Maldives can be measured in millimetres over the last 200 years and you are talking metres!
      
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      November 2, 2019 12:05pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Can you sleep at night with your upside down view of the world? Is there anything right with it that you can feel even a smidgin of approval for?
      
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      November 2, 2019 3:27pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I normally can’t be bothered with you Stephie. The rants, the lies. I’ve read more genuine science (y’know… published papers) on the topic of climate change than you’ve had hot meals. This time I’ll make an exception for your bollocks.
      
      Fact free, junk science claim: “[Maldives] is already witnessing an increase in intense rainfall and resultant flooding.”
      Evidence: No it is not. The five highest rainfall months in the last 100 years have all been before 1995. Source.
      
      An who is Michael Delingpole? If you’re going to try a drive-by smear, have the decency to name your target accurately. It’s James Delingpole.
      
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      November 2, 2019 4:44pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Realised the period for the chart above is a bit dated. Here’s a better chart. It shows more rain in several months late 2018 and 2019. Fewer homes were ‘flooded’ there than in New Zealand over the same period. Also note wind chart. Maximum wind gusts at near historical lows.
      
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      November 2, 2019 4:59pm
  - tf78
    
    Like Dubai, they could just make some more.
    
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    November 2, 2019 12:47pm
  - I remember when
    
    Rising sea levels may build, rather than destroy, coral reef. 13/11/18.
    NOAA – Acidification is affecting coral reef bulding due to higher seawater PH. 26/2/21.
    10/6/20 – Coral reef islands may accrete vertically in response to sea level rise.
    9/4/20 – Despite sea temperatures rising faster than global average, no mass bleaching events have occured in the northern Red Sea.
    So it looks like the science is settled.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:21am
- Jack5
  
  Rising sea levels? Another excuse for the West’s woke, for the UN, and for the Third World generally to smash open the developed countries’ borders to a flood of Third Worlders.
  
  Our pussy-cat Immigration Minister, Knees-Galloway, will smartly amend our immigration quotas, entry rules, and migrant work protection as soon as a petition (with press release) arrives from Auckland’s 37½ Maldive Islanders.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:58am
  - sooty
    
    On instructions from PTPM Cindy!
    
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    November 2, 2019 11:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Apparently Hillary owns an island there. She has no problem with sea levels rising. Somewhere to run to when the time comes.
  But I could be wrong.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:27am
  - GazzaW
    
    In recent times major hotel chains have invested billions in the Maldives. Something tells me that they might just have checked out the possibility of their developments being inundated in the foreseeable future.
    
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    November 2, 2019 11:15am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Not only have they filled up the place with hotels, they’ve infilled one of their island’s lagoons to make a megalopolis.
      https://hdc.com.mv/hulhumale/
      Of course the Maldives needs aid money – to pay off the Chinese and their own corrupt politicians.
      The Maldives counts the cost of its debts to China
      https://www.ft.com/content/c8da1c8a-2a19-11e9-88a4-c32129756dd8
      
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      November 2, 2019 1:21pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        How refreshing to see a government website 1) expressing and executing an actual vision with some ambition 2) not littered with random vague Maori words and phrases.
        
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        October 18, 2021 2:29pm
- kloyd0306
  
  As Jimmy Carr says: If the seas are rising it’s the children I feel sorry for as they will drown first.
  
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  November 2, 2019 5:16pm
Gandolfo

Can someone enlighten me please. On December 1, 2019 everything that comes through our borders will be taxed 15% GST aside from any customs duties, this new rule applies even to my grandmother sending me a present from the UK. Is this “Lets do this” or “Lets do this to You”?
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November 2, 2019 8:12am
- srylands
  
  I have tried to find out but it is totally unclear. The online info says that overseas suppliers need to register for GST. But why would they? I buy things from specialist USA companies. Eg hiking equipment. They don’t deliver to New Zealand. So they get sent to a freight forwarder. They bundle my stuff up. They remove original packaging to save weight and send them on to me. Those guys are not going to muck about with new Zealand laws.
  
  Right now I separate the goods into separate packages on different shippers to stay below the 400 dollar de minimis threshold. So I get one $390 package from FedEx and another one from DHL. It is not the GST that bothers me but the horrendous processing charge from customs.
  
  So I have no idea how this is going to work. But if it turns into a ckustet**** I can imagine there will be deeply unhappy voters. The reason I don’t buy from New Zealand retailers is nothing to do with GST. It is the pathetic range and absurd prices. Two good examples. 1. Tramping gear. Good tramping gear is available in New Zealand but the prices are eye watering. 100 percent above USA prices. 2. Men’s shoes. Prices are also about double here but in this case the range is pathetic. Walk into a “shoe store” in New Zealand and look at the range of mens dress and formal wear shoes. What is on offer is disgusting. I have not bought a pair of shoes in New Zealand for more than a decade.
  
  I have no problem paying GST on my overseas purchases if it is done efficiently. But I cannot see how that will happen. This is a ploy by local brick and mortar retailers to make the process difficult and force people to use them. When actually they should all die.
  
  Oh and I could have added 3. Books. Why would anyone buy a book from a New Zealand store?
  
  I hope that National campaigns on returning to the status quo. It could be a big vote winner.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:44am
  - DigNap15
    
    Any chemist items are horrendous compared to English websites.
    Yes NZ shops do not always have what you want or need.
    And everything in NZ is overpriced.
    Just ask any tourists.
    Beer, food, cheese.
    And don’t get me started on building materials, plumbing and electrical stuff.
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:06am
    - kevn
      
      @Dig… Add car parts to that list. Even from the USA, prices are between 30% – 50% cheaper than in NZ including freight.
      rockauto. Door to door, 7 day service, very efficient.
      
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      November 2, 2019 1:44pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Customs charges are a severe nuisance. I import containers for my RubItOn products but have to keep parcels down to under the $400 level. Any GST I would get back but other charges are not recoverable except in prices.
    A cost free exemption should still apply or the Customs charges on these small imports waived or drastically reduced.
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:18am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I recently purchased an tiny, low-cost electronic component for my business. For exactly the same item, I could buy 10 and voluntarily pay the GST using an Aliexpress supplier, and it would still be cheaper than buying just one(!) from a NZ retailer. Free shipping too. Didn’t have to drive across town to collect it.
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:19am
  - Jack5
    
    National won’t remove the tax. Labour-Greens-Peters are imposing it after a long campaign by retailers.
    
    How will it affect the hundreds of tiny Chinese firms who sell through Aliexpress? Especially the suppliers of the swathe of little items that might cost you a couple of bucks including postage, while the equivalent in New Zealand costs fifteen dollars. Will these little retailers who sell to many countries keep selling to NZ with the new hassle?
    
    Readers have been the victims of business barons for decades. There used to be, and may still be, an international publisher agreement which carved up the world markets for English-language books. New Zealand readers had to (and may still have to) buy the English editions of English language books printed both in America and England, regardless of price differences.
    
    Fortunately, e-books provide a lid on paper book prices, and there is no delivery cost. Don’t worry, you will get used to the electronic screens. It’s rather convenient to have hundreds of books in a device you can carry around.
    
    A small, extremely remote country like NZ is ideal for international internet retailing. Locals like K-Mart and the Warehouse won’t be able to supply anywhere near the range of goods we can buy on Amazon and Aliexpress.
    
    Politicians’ (on both sides) listen to the organised pressure groups, such as retailers, rather than to us, the plebs.
    
    So far, we haven’t had a populist party like Trumpism or Faragism. There’s room for one. There are so many issues.
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:21am
    - tf78
      
      The only people to gain from the extra GST is the Govt – I don’t see any benefit to the whinging retailers.
      
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      November 2, 2019 12:02pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The small items won’t affect NZ retailers because they have dropped out of those markets.
      Promotion costs in NZ means that specialty items are almost all sold directly or via the internet. Our population is too small for much else.
      The $400 limit harms few, except whingers, but allows freedom of commerce and choice in a small remote island nation.
      
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      November 2, 2019 3:34pm
    - Pateke
      
      I publish my novels on Amazon and have done for fifteen years. I can retail my books at around seven dollars, of which I receive 70%. If a customer wishes the books can be purchased in print version NZ would be interested in holding the inventory, thus the high cost of books in NZ. Yes you are right, the English speaking world is divided up into cartel-type regions for sales. All my books can be read on a iPad or even better a kindle, which feels like a book.
      
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      November 2, 2019 5:27pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Just wondering how the New Zealand government (Customs/IRD) is going to know if a Chinese seller sells more than the allowable $60,000 per year into New Zealand? I’m guessing that most are really small mom and pop operations earning a few dollars extra and not selling anywhere near $60,000 a year into New Zealand.
      
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      November 2, 2019 8:10pm
  - Michael
    
    I actually have a problem on paying GST on overseas purchases.
    It is NOT in NZ.
    
    Where does this stop.
    Must we declare ourt purchases whilst overseas and then pay GST on them in the future.
    
    This is a massive overreach by our government (by extention our retailers).
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:40am
    - srylands
      
      “Must we declare our purchases whilst overseas and then pay GST on them in the future.”
      
      You are required to declare all overseas purchases now when you return to NZ if they exceed $700 in value.
      
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      November 2, 2019 11:29am
      - david
        
        I think that “items of personal adornment” are exempted from the $700 rule. This exempts clothes, shoes, perfumes, jewellery; in other words all the things that the wife of a male Customs Minister,Ora female Customs Minister might want to bring back on one of her frequent jaunts. Bloke stuff like booze is much more proscribed unless of course you are a fan for diamond ear studs.
        
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        November 2, 2019 5:24pm
  - Fletch
    
    It looks like December 1st is the cutoff date. I’d try and buy everything you were thinking of buying from overseas before that date.
    
    https://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2019-sr-gst-low-value-imported-goods.pdf
    
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    November 2, 2019 10:08am
  - Scott
    
    Srylands – I’m the only one who diwnticked you. That’s a globalist mindset, all local businesses should die, buy everything overseas.
    Can’t agree sorry.
    
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    November 2, 2019 1:06pm
    - srylands
      
      All local businesses will not die but some deserve to. Whitcouls books, shitty shoe stores and rip off outdoors stores most certainly should die. Because the only way they will stay in business is to either evolve to provide value or to use the government to coerce people to shop there.
      
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      November 2, 2019 3:46pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Whitcoulls has given up already. It’s no longer a book store and is now a toy store.
        
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        November 2, 2019 4:25pm
- balls
  
  I can totally understand consumers purchasing online from overseas to get a cheaper price or better range but there is a lot of misunderstanding about this.
  
  Firstly, GST is only one component of the price differential compared to overseas sites. Draconian duty is applied to many items and this is often 20 – 30% of the landed cost and has a far more significant impact than the GST. I see many comparisons below and as a retailer/distributor I can confirm that categories such as footwear, apparel, etc are all affected. Outside this there is very little difference in cost apart from exchange rate and freight. This is evident in many categories that we sell that are now at price parity with international sites. In some cases we are even cheaper.
  
  The other aspect is selection. Most international brands have factory minimums to ship from direct from the factory. NZ is a blip in a global market and the lack of selection is down to the low population base and market size (as well as international brands controlling brand representation). The best way to battle this is to support local retailers which will in turn result in greater selection locally. Shopping overseas will create a snowball effect and further decrease selection locally.
  
  Third, as a retailer we are dealing directly with companies internationally and relying less on distributors. These efficiencies have seen prices drop locally comparative to inflation over the last ten years.
  
  Lastly, our operating costs have increased dramatically over the last two years. Three guesses why.
  
  This is not from an angry position. Our business (started by two 18 year olds) has grown from a tiny local store to a leading retailer in our market. We have an incredible team and are fortunate to be in the position we are (plus a lot of stress and hard work).
  
  I hope this clarifies things and adds a different point of view for those of you choosing where to shop. If in doubt, just talk to your local retailer. In many cases they will match (or try to) prices from overseas retailers.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:52am
  - srylands
    
    “Draconian duty is applied to many items and this is often 20 – 30% of the landed cost and has a far more significant impact than the GST. ”
    
    That is totally incorrect. There is a 10 percent duty on clothing and footwear. There is a 5 percent duty on some manufactured items, but most are duty free.
    
    That is it.
    
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    November 2, 2019 11:37am
    - balls
      
      We import from China, US, EU and charges vary by category and country of origin. On top of duty charges we also have MAF clearance, etc which all adds to the total customs charges which adds up to between 10% and 30% of landed goods. None of these are charged in small imports under $400 by consumers but are included in the costs for importers and passed on the consumers. “Most are duty free” is absolute rubbish.
      
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      November 2, 2019 1:55pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Wrong, they are indeed duty free. The other charges are supposed to cover costs and are not “duty” as defined.
        
        What I think you mean is that duty free is not cost free.
        
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        November 2, 2019 3:24pm
      - srylands
        
        No it is not rubbish. More than 90 percent of goods are imported duty free. Most of the rest have 5 percent duty. If you have issues with MAF and biosecurity charges that is a separate issue.
        
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        November 2, 2019 3:48pm
      - balls
        
        Ed Snack / Srylands – you have stats to back up the fact that most items are duty free? It obviously depends on category and from our experience the majority has some duty applied. GST and Duty are payable together and this adds up to between 20 to 25% of goods, plus clearance charges. As I mentioned, as a consumer I would be frustrated at the addition of GST on imports. As a business owner/employer either GST/Duty needs to be removed or applied consistently to everyone for an even playing field. My fundamental point is that this is a legislative issue rather than the common held position that retailers are “ripping off” customers. In some cases – yes. In most cases, no.
        
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        November 2, 2019 4:50pm
      - srylands
        
        Do your own research. Google “tariff schedule”
        
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        November 2, 2019 9:45pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Isn’t it hilarious, balls, that random know-nothings on the internet telling YOU how YOUR everyday experience operating YOUR business is WRONG.
        
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        October 18, 2021 2:19pm
- chaos
  
  Argh, that’s going to be fun. I get my pots supplement from the USA because it’s the only thing that works, already expensive enough.
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:14am
- rightoverlabour
  
  More reason not to vote for these thieving bastards…
  
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  November 2, 2019 3:30pm
  - chaos
    
    National started the work on this
    
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    November 2, 2019 6:21pm
- I remember when
  
  Same going the other way for presents.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:25am
SGA

Maldives has 11 airports. And they’re opening another 5 by the end of this year, presumably just in time for them to slip beneath the rising seas.

I imagine these “airports” aren’t that much more than landing strips on the scattered atolls? Or are they proper significant airports?
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November 2, 2019 8:23am
- srylands
  
  I get amused when activists predict the end of air travel by 2040. The second Beijing airport opened 6 weeks ago. That adds to the 200 large commercial airports in China.
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Daxing_International_Airport?wprov=sfla1
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:51am
- krazykiwi
  
  Maldives already have 3 international airports. I don’t know how many, if any, of the additional 5 will also be international airports.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There are 4 international airports:
  Velana (Ibrahim Nassir) International airport is the largest,
  https://www.holidify.com/pages/maldives-airports-1183.html
  and 8 Domestic airports.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:03am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Two airports in the Maldives have runways of 11,000 feet plus, making them capable of handling anything up to A380 (as long as they can bear the weight). Three others are between 5900 and 7200 feet, meaning that A320/737 can use them. Six others are ideal for Q300 operations.
    They are not ‘landing strips’.
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:16am
    - SGA
      
      Interesting. I knew it was a very popular tourist destination, but not of that magnitude.
      
      7 1
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      November 2, 2019 9:53am
      - GazzaW
        
        It’s a very popular upmarket destination for Europeans. Strongly Muslim but booze is served at all resorts at a price. The resorts are widely scattered on small atolls and serviced by speedboats or seaplane services from the main centre. Easily accessed from NZ on Singapore Airlines or Malaysia Airlines.
        
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        November 2, 2019 11:25am
- Blackbob
  
  They’re still “airports” and not “submarineports”
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:51am
- rockape
  
  Former RAF Ghan had a huge strip big enough to take any aircraft built in wartime.
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:11am
  - sooty
    
    Which war?
    
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    November 2, 2019 11:45am
jedmo

An advocate for Corrections staff is pointing out the risk these people face in their daily jobs, from the increasing number of violent prisoners like Stephen Williams, and calls for a new approach to managing these people, in our prisons.
He has a good point in my view.
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November 2, 2019 8:28am
- John Warren
  
  I have a new approach to managing these people. Guaranteed 100% to stop them causing trouble.
  
  18 0
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  November 2, 2019 8:34am
- kevn
  
  @jed… keep williams permanently medically sedated. He is bonkers and a hazard to all.
  
  13 0
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  November 2, 2019 8:40am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Sedation drugs are expensive. A piece of lead administered to the back of the head would be much more cost-effective.
    
    11 5
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    November 2, 2019 9:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hillary style works
      
      12 4
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      November 2, 2019 9:33am
- cut n paster
  
  3rd strike – Gallows or Electric Chair (thugs choice) -Yeah Nah
  Being soft on Bludgers and Crims = Increased number totally FUBARed ones. “It’s common sense”.
  Another conversation / working group in the offing, without conclusion or requirement to show their workings.
  
  2 1
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  November 2, 2019 9:22am
  - david
    
    Easy answer once the right-to-die legislation is enacted. Build an electric chair then hand the switch to the prisoner as a dead man’s switch. Lock the door and leave. When he lets go his time is up.
    
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    November 2, 2019 5:30pm
- Notsofast
  
  And let us not forget that New Zealand has a history of infrequently jailing wholly innocent people.
  In this category of alleged murderers I would name Arthur Thomas, David Bain, Rex Haig, George Gwaze and Mark Lundy.
  What risks should these men be exposed to?
  What risks should Lindy Chamberlain have been exposed to in Australia, and countless dna exonerated victims in America?
  There are also Luke Mitchell in Scotland and Jeremy Bamber in England.
  
  An ethical corrections strategy will provide complete protection for all prisoners to honour the commitment of the state to act in the best interests of all its citizens.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:56am
  - sooty
    
    Mark Lundy, not so much!
    
    13 0
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    November 2, 2019 11:47am
  - Jack5
    
    ? Good morning, Mark!
    
    7 0
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    November 2, 2019 12:02pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    You forgot Clayton Weatherstone and Matthew Bell.
    Idiot.
    
    14 3
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    November 2, 2019 12:10pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Scott Watson
    
    4 0
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    November 2, 2019 1:59pm
  - John Warren
    
    David Bain? Like fuck is he innocent.
    
    7 0
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    November 2, 2019 4:18pm
Happychappy

How can you issue almost 35,000 residence visas and 246,705 work visas that have been approved in year to September without the infrastructure of housing and roads and expect to improve our housing and Transport problems.
https://www.interest.co.nz/property/102356/almost-35000-residence-visas-and-246705-work-visas-approved-year-september
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November 2, 2019 8:31am
- sooty
  
  Well, they have got a 14,000 waitng list for a state house!
  Do imigrants/refuge get first preferance over NZs in the que?
  
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  November 2, 2019 11:49am
- DigNap15
  
  Don’t forget that the working visas are a rolling figure. We have about the same number each year.
  
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  November 2, 2019 1:57pm
Swifty

Aro Valley Four Square sells 3.8 tonnes of poppy seeds in a year:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12281685

It’ll be those bloody junkies up Holloway Road!

🙂
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November 2, 2019 8:39am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Damnation… there could have been a specialist bakery lurking around Te Aro specialising in marmorguelhupf and makwiec and I never discovered it.
  
  Still, always something to look forward to when in Acland St, St Kilda.
  https://www.flickr.com/photos/djackmanson/4165464193
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:20am
- kevn
  
  @Swifty… ‘Business is business’ they would argue. ‘No different to selling booze or cigarettes’, the shopkeeper would say.
  ‘Just supplying what customers want.’
  ‘Not illegal’
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:22am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Steve Northshore ( or some other) had a grizzle and gripe about my post about Trump’s 96 fibs I posted yesterday. Here is the link again and shall we go through these false claims one at a time ,

{Mod: No, we shan’t. Once is enough, especially as it wasn’t actually your post, just another cut and paste job]
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November 2, 2019 8:47am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Up tick for the mods actions or, as usual, down tick SB and move along with the more pleasant aspects of one’s life . . .
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:12am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Mods: great burn! You may have to send him some aloe vera in the post.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  True, mod. If Steve Otto was too lazy to read the link article yesterday, there is no reason to suppose he would be any more energetic today.
  
  2 19
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  November 2, 2019 10:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The link did not work Mike. I’m guessing CNN removed the page after being called out for their bullshit
    
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    November 2, 2019 12:00pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That’s not what you said last night. Never mind, the story is easy to find:
      https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/30/politics/fact-check-trump-96-false-claims-ukraine/index.html
      
      2 12
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      November 2, 2019 12:17pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It is what I said last night, so don’t bullshit Mike.
        
        4 2
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        November 2, 2019 4:30pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Can Trumpeters bring as closer to the identity of the whistleblower that they appeared to claim that conservative US media were on a hot trail towards ?,

https://time.com/5715900/trump-allies-pushing-to-unmask-ukraine-whistleblower/
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November 2, 2019 8:52am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Give it up steph. You’re making an arse of yourself. Again.
  
  33 2
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  November 2, 2019 9:24am
  - stephieboy
    
    You have the name ?
    
    2 18
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    November 2, 2019 9:36am
    - DigNap15
      
      Is it one of the Bidens?
      Or Hilary?
      
      1 2
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      November 2, 2019 1:56pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        The name has been out for weeks. It is Eric Ciaramella. He’s a long term associate of John Brennan, and was involved in meetings that set up the original “Russian Collusion” hoax. He also coordinated with Schiff prior to going to the ICIG. Also has contacts with people and companies implicated in the Biden corruption.
        
        He’s not a “whistleblower” as defined in law but a seditious leaker. I wonder why Schiff doesn’t want him as a witness, scared of questions he might be asked ?
        
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        November 2, 2019 3:32pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A fake whistleblower! That was a feature of the inquisition.
  The Magna Carta rejected that.
  
  Destructive Emotional Manipulators, DEMS, cannot produce any live whistleblower so themselves are presenting as treasonous.
  Government by socialists is not possible as the mire of ideology is inescapable.
  ☑️☑️
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:31am
  - Batman
    
    Kev, have a cup of tea and a lie down. You’re hyperventilating
    
    4 15
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    November 2, 2019 11:03am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hey, he’s on to something here. I’m pretty sure Magna Carta is Latin for ‘great and unmatched wisdom’.
      
      3 16
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      November 2, 2019 11:14am
      - oob
        
        How about “A big book of words the orange shitgibbon doesn’t understand.”
        
        4 6
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        November 2, 2019 12:15pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Ouch
        That comments quite smarmy Mike
        
        6 2
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        November 2, 2019 1:00pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Read it for yourself sometime. Those in power gave up their might to seize anyone they pleased. We now have rights to have our accusers front up and be examined.
        
        3 1
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        November 2, 2019 3:43pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Those who can lie to have their own political way can turn on anyone when they change their fickle minds. Lefties look out.
      
      3 1
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      November 2, 2019 3:41pm
- Andrei
  
  It is all theatre Stephieboy
  
  In case you hadn’t noticed (and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if you hadn’t) next year is a Presidential election year
  
  And the Democrats having nothing whatsoever on offer that would be at all palatable to the American electorate seek to distract with this nonense.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:36am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Da. Vlad vote Republican, no?
    
    1 10
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    November 2, 2019 11:16am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Genuinely interested mikey, which current Democrat candidate do you think has a wide appeal to the electorate who could also campaign effectively ?
      
      I see issues for all of them at this stage though things could change. The only one with a sort of wide appeal is Biden but I honestly can’t see him making it to the end of the primaries. He’s short of money for a start – a very bad sign for a supposed front runner. And I think he would be very vulnerable in a campaign given his lack of energy and the level of protection his team is already giving him (such as no late afternoon question sessions). Harris is also nearly out of money, O’Rourke is gone, Yang, Castro, Klobuchar, and Gabbard just don’t have party support. That leaves Bernie and Warren. Could Bernie at 78 be viable after his heart attack, and could Warren ever get a reliable level of support from the Black community (currently she has a very low level) ?
      
      Be interested to know how you see it.
      
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      November 2, 2019 3:40pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Idiot. If you paid attention you would know who the whistleblower is. Stop it with the rubbish fool.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Eric Ciaramella
    
    16 3
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    November 2, 2019 9:57am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sound foreign. Probably a spy.
      
      3 16
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      November 2, 2019 10:37am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yeah – colluding with the Russians LOL!
        
        10 2
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        November 2, 2019 12:01pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Eric Ciaramella a career intelligence office has only been cited as a ” possibility.”
      
      Not an established fact!
      
      1 7
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      November 2, 2019 2:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        CNN again?? MSNBC?.
        Why not try someone reliable like OAN (One America News)
        
        5 2
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        November 2, 2019 3:21pm
  - stigie
    
    Was reading the other day that business and consumer confidence was up..?
    [Deleted by Mod] will be beside himself come next Tuesday in the house and of course the gloating patsies from the backbenches.
    The smirking from this government is all there to see, even from good or bad news !~
    
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    November 2, 2019 10:19am
- Scott
  
  Stephieboy – thanks for posting the link. What amuses me is that the mainstream media is just not interested in the identity of the whistle blower? And they resent the Republicans for trying to find out!
  
  Two things – first of all it is a fundamental right in Western jurisprudence to face your accuser. What is the validity of their claim against the accused? This is important because the whole impeachment started with the whistle-blower. So who is he and what is the validity of his claim?
  
  Secondly the double standard is appalling! Imagine if this was a whistle-blower in the Obama era? The mainstream media would be falling over themselves to find out his identity. Is he a white man? If so he’s probably a racist!
  
  But no because this person is accusing a hated (by the media) president he gets a free pass.
  
  The hypocrisy and double standards are stunning!
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:40am
  - Kevin Herlihy
    
    There quite possibly isn’t a whistleblower per se, the leaked transcripts could have been hacked or obtained illegally.
    Pelosi had nothing but inflamed rhetoric and has held closed door inquiries as an exercise in phishing for evidence to push on with.
    Also Pelosi’s hyperbole in wailing about democracy being comprimised is nothing more than pre election positioning, a cynical attempt at manipulating public opinion.
    Trump may not be the perfect President, but he is a better option than the b.s. Dems.
    
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    November 2, 2019 11:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The “whistle blower” is now refusing to appear and looks to be recanting.
    Haven’t we seen this before?
    
    5 2
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    November 2, 2019 3:45pm
- kevn
  
  @parrotboy… Give it away. Your TDS is becoming very tiresome.
  
  11 3
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  November 2, 2019 9:42am
- Fletch
  
  We all know who the whistleblower is, really. See yesterday’s GD.
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:01am
JibberJabber

Isn’t it amazing that a man who feels he is a woman is “born that way” but a man who feels he is a man, is a product of social and cultural conditioning?

Unknown.
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November 2, 2019 9:16am
Gravelroad

Does anyone know if and when the ABs v Wales game is going to replay on tv please?
Our recording of it last night did not work and flicking through TV1 programmes today gives no indication of a replay.
3 0
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November 2, 2019 9:27am
- Gravelroad
  
  No need for reply.
  Family member has given the necessary information.
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:38am
Michael

The British election is a crucial one…
It couldn’t happen here, thank God.

https://www.melaniephillips.com/brexit-nationhood-jewish-question/
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November 2, 2019 9:35am
Michael

It is imperative that a country can control their own borders

https://www.melaniephillips.com/migrant-deaths-borders-inadequately-policed/
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November 2, 2019 9:41am
Michael

This is worth watching.
My brother in the UK said the same this week on a skype call..

https://www.melaniephillips.com/migrant-deaths-borders-inadequately-policed/
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November 2, 2019 9:44am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Thanks for that. I hadn’t heard of Melanie Phillips before. Definitely an A-grade crank.
  
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  November 2, 2019 11:21am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I have read Melanie Phillips, as every Englishman should. I know who the crank is in this thread.
    
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    November 2, 2019 2:35pm
Fletch

This is how corrupt today’s journalists are. Glenn Beck reckons this is the biggest lie he’s ever seen by them.

Remember that prosecutor that Joe Biden got fired with his use of blackmail in Ukraine? Well, the replacement prosecutor said in a televised interview that the U.S ambassador under Obama gave him a list telling him who he could and couldn’t investigate, including the head of Burisma and other Soros-owned NGOs. (You can see video in the linked Facebook story below).

So, a little later, the media in the U.S came up with the story that this new prosecutor retracted his statement. The Washington Post, the New York Times, and others. Glenn Beck went hunting to try and find the source and it goes all the way back to an interview in the Ukraine media. It turns out the new prosecutor wasn’t given a physical list of people not to prosecute. He took a piece of paper and wrote down a list that was dictated to him by the U.S ambassador.

“She said that this is unacceptable; they say, will undermine the credibility of anti-corruption activists. I took a piece of paper, recorded the surnames announced and said, dictate a list of inviolable persons’

So yeh. The media’s claims are based on semantics. The prosecutor wasn’t given a physical list, it was dictated to him. This is what the media used to claim it was walked back. This is so dishonest and disgusting….

https://www.facebook.com/BlazeMedia/videos/1473439939471682/
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November 2, 2019 9:52am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Glenn Beck accusing someone of lying seems a bit weird. A bit like Megan Woods or Gerry Brownlee calling someone fat.
  
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  November 2, 2019 11:24am
  - Straight arrow
    
    Does that make their statement false? You use a logical fallacy.
    
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    November 2, 2019 1:43pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Just irony. Doesn’t really matter that this particular story as garbage – which it is, of course.
      
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      November 2, 2019 6:27pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    The story checks out however. It does seem that the US at the time was running protection on corrupt Ukrainians as long as they were funnelling money back to their US benefactors.
    
    Something yet to come out is the issue around Ukrainian arms. The US have quite a lot of money (I think around $80M but not quite sure if that is a one off or part of a series of payments) for the Ukraine to dispose of a lot of ex-Soviet era arms in large depots. The story goes that these arms were in fact illegally shipped to (mostly) jihadis in Syria and related places with CIA assistance, and the payments were skimmed off. There have been at least 3 large scale fires at Ukrainian arms depots that left investigators wondering why all the ammunition listed as being stored didn’t seem to have burnt (remarkable lack of explosions) and yet no remains were found at the sites. Be interesting to see if there is anything behind these stories.
    
    Certainly very large sums were being laundered out of Ukraine by various conduits by companies, and apparently Burisma is one mentioned frequently.
    
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    November 2, 2019 3:49pm
Notsofast

Do we ignore this story in our obsequious embrace of our Chinese masters?

” A separate room was set aside for torture.

“There were all kinds of torture there. Some prisoners were hung on the wall and beaten with electrified truncheons. There were prisoners who were made to sit on a chair of nails. I saw people return from the room covered in blood. Some came back without fingernails,” said Sauytbay.

“They would punish inmates for everything.”

She told Haaretz the story of an old woman who had been a shepherd before her arrest.

“She was taken to the camp because she was accused of speaking with someone from abroad by phone. This was a woman who not only did not have a phone, she didn’t even know how to use one,” said Sauytbay.

“On the page of sins the inmates were forced to fill out, she wrote that the call she had been accused of making never took place. In response she was immediately punished.

“I saw her when she returned. She was covered with blood, she had no fingernails and her skin was flayed.” ”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12281506
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November 2, 2019 10:03am
- mikenmildagain
  
  What a piece of rabble rousing. Todd McClay has assured us that ‘the existence and purpose of vocational training centres is a domestic matter for the Chinese government’. Nothing to see here, right?
  
  3 11
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  November 2, 2019 11:29am
  - DigNap15
    
    We need some of those here for our ferals and baby breeders.
    
    3 2
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    November 2, 2019 1:55pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, there’s one fan who’d like a Chinese dictatorship here.
      
      0 4
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      November 2, 2019 6:35pm
- sooty
  
  That’s just what Lundy needs!
  
  4 1
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  November 2, 2019 11:43am
  - Notsofast
    
    New Zealand is not like China. Dopey juries and even dopier appeal courts sit solemnly and witlessly are fooled by the wily prosecutors.
    The Chinese have far greater brains than the above, and have figured how to blackmail every government in the world, so they can exterminate, and be praised by the most vile.
    
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    November 2, 2019 4:44pm
- pb
  
  Get this out from your local library, there’s a fascinating chapter on China:
  
  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/106169.The_Black_Book_of_Communism
  
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  November 2, 2019 12:47pm
Brian McDonald

Enjoyed the All Blacks win even if lamenting last week’s choice of team. Ben Smith was called the best fullback in the world for a few years, last night with him playing on the wing we saw why and also why SBW remains the premier off loader in world rugby.
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November 2, 2019 10:10am
- Colville
  
  The dummy and pass by Retallick to put Moody in the gap was the highlight of the series ?
  
  11 0
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  November 2, 2019 10:54am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    He’s got speed but it’s rare for a prop to be ‘gapper.’
    
    0 3
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    November 2, 2019 11:16am
Fletch

More record job numbers in America.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2019/11/01/america-added-128000-jobs-in-october-unemployment-at-3-6/
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November 2, 2019 10:20am
Happychappy

No one does hypocrisy better than Labour and the Greens when trying to score Politcal points.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117096665/majority-of-sexual-violence-incidents-reported-to-police-are-children-or-young-people
Where was Jan Logie the Under Secretary to the Minister of Justice (Domestic and Sexual Violence) over the sexual assaults of Labour workers in Parliament when the Labour Party and there Leader PM were trying to cover up the sexual assaults from a senior staff member out of the Prime Ministers office. And now we have the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern also making a statement after her appalling behavior of these young Labour workers saying eliminating family and sexual violence was the greatest opportunity NZ has to improving peoples Wellbeing, this after her manipulation of the truth of the person involved from her office in the rescent sex assault saga and cover up from the Labour Party.
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November 2, 2019 10:27am
Fletch

After the Dems “official” impeachment resolution, Trump’s reelection campaign netted $3 million in one day. That’s $19 million for October alone. So far, he has raked in about $300 million for the campaign.
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November 2, 2019 10:36am
secondcumming

WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT

Is this want we want for New Zealand?

You would have to wonder if *Simon Bridges* is even aware of what’s going on under President Xi’s CCP…..or cares anyway. Perhaps he’s been totally brain-washed after spending 9 years under John Key’s control. Maybe he still is. Who would know.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12281506
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November 2, 2019 10:48am
- chaos
  
  The way you deal with China is as friends. If you want to change the way China behaves you do it as a friendly nation that they respect. This is something that both Clark and Key understood.
  
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  November 2, 2019 11:23am
  - secondcumming
    
    You may well have a point there chaos.
    I mean you certainly wouldn’t want to find yourself on the *wrong side* of them,
    eh boy? 😎
    
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    November 2, 2019 1:20pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      ‘vocational training’ for you in that case.
      
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      November 2, 2019 6:28pm
Hugh Pavletich

USA AND CHINA … WHICH IS IN BETTER SHAPE ? …

Jobs report: U.S. economy adds 128,000 jobs in October, smashing expectations … Yahoo Finance

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jobs-report-october-2019-bls-employment-211125748.html

The U.S. economy added more jobs than expected in October, handily topping estimates even as a protracted strike was anticipated to weigh on hiring growth.
.
.
China’s median age will soon overtake America’s … The Economist

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/10/31/chinas-median-age-will-soon-overtake-americas

Demography may be the Chinese economy’s biggest challenge.
.
.
What is the lack of rural land reform costing China ? …

China’s countryside ‘returning to poverty’ as lack of reforms help fuel urban-rural divide … Elaine Chan … South China Morning Post

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3034590/chinas-countryside-returning-poverty-lack-reforms-help-fuel

• China’s rural economy is at the heart of national policy, but the income gap between the country’s villages and cities is widening

• Experts say the government needs to kick start much-needed reforms of the rural pension system and land rights, with US trade war increasing pressure … read more via hyperlink above …
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November 2, 2019 10:50am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Singapore and Hong Kong housing compared …
  
  Hong Kong, Singapore and how elections affect home ownership and prices [The Straits Times] … Singapore Government
  
  https://www.gov.sg/news/content/home-ownership-and-elections
  
  There is nothing like an election to focus the minds of the political elite on what matters to ordinary citizens.
  
  Singapore may not be a liberal democracy but it is an electoral democracy. That means its political leaders have to face voters every four to five years, and win their support.
  
  In my mind, there is no doubt that elections are why Singapore’s leaders have done a far better job than Hong Kong’s in reining in housing prices.
  
  Hong Kong’s Chief Executive Carrie Lam, who was not democratically elected but appointed by the government in Beijing, is now belatedly trying to fix a dire housing shortage that has dogged the city for years. But only after four months of protests that have spiralled into violence and destruction of property. … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:51am
Nookin

I agree with you about Ben Smith, Brian. Questions that will never be answered are whether he, Ryan Crotty and Owen Franks, with their experience and leadership capabilities, would have made a difference last week. Also, when did Ben Smith fall from favour and why? Hansen said that he had lost confidence. Smith said he had not lost confidence. Certainly, he had lost gametime and we saw last night what he can do when he gets gametime.
I disagree about Sonny Bill. Sure, an SBW offload led to the Crotty try last night but we should expect that quality of play from an All Black inside back. Sadly, Sonny Bill’s play is one-dimensional and has been for some time.
It will be interesting to see whether the next All Black coach perseveres with Jordi Barrett
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November 2, 2019 11:02am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Yes I recall those conversations about loss of confidence and form Nookin. Very glad that Ben had the chance to show his skills a final time internationally, had it been last week we could have been watching him in the final tonight. The last world cup had several players in their 30s and won. We should never have reinvented our loose forward trio last week and Owen Franks remains a top scrummager against any pack – especially tough packs like the English and South Africans.
  I wonder if the coaching staff got side-tracked by the death of the grandad of the Barrett’s and thought that would be strong focus point for the team. It may well have been for a period but putting a bone shattering no 7 on the bench was madness.
  
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  November 2, 2019 11:33am
- Rob2
  
  Yep and he is gone hasn’t he. About bloody time. Dor the money spent they coulc have had a bunch of better players. All about him and his “look at me”.
  
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  November 2, 2019 9:46pm
Brian McDonald

It’s fascinated me for weeks as to why Paula Bennett backed away from Peters when he came out of hospital and criticised her involvement with ‘Sarah.’
The reason maybe in the link below which reveals some of the detail of Peter’s civil action against her, the Crown and others regarding the overpayment of super, and who leaked the information.
Several National Party members have filed affidavits that they had not leaked material – however no sources of the leaks have been found elsewhere.
Apparently at the time of the leaks Barry Soper claimed it was a political attack and alleged that National had leaked the information.
Be interesting to see how the case goes, particularly to see if the right of privacy is overshadow by the so called ‘no surprise policy.’ Instinctively the answer must be no.
For all his critics the case indicates the sharp mind of Peters to track information and the legality of its handling. It will set a precedent 1 way or the other, but the result seems inevitable law trumps ‘political policy.’ Mysteries remain however, was Soper informed when he declared it was National leak? Also, having signed an affidavit that was false and Mr Peters discovered that would a political opponent lose confidence and possibly go quiet?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/peters-day-job-on-hold-as-he-sues-the-crown/ar-AAJDLEF?ocid=spartandhp
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November 2, 2019 11:14am
- alloytoo
  
  The leak of Peters’ details made no political sense at the time, unless your name was Peters.
  
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  November 2, 2019 11:56am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    A month out from the election – it made every sense as a political attack.
    “He repaid up to $18,000 after being contacted by MSD and issued a press statement a month before the election revealing the overpayment and resolution, once media began inquiring.”
    
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    November 2, 2019 7:20pm
- sooty
  
  PTPM Cindy is back tuesday!
  Well she did not get much sunbathing or shopping done, did she?
  What’s the bet she heads off for sunbathing and shopping befoe christmas!
  Whinestone is the boss untill tuesday, even though he’s in court!
  
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  November 2, 2019 12:00pm
- Rodney Hide
  
  Hi Brian
  
  I have a bigger question. Is filling out and signing an incorrect super application to your financial advantage against the law and on discovery the false receipt of money is going to an MP be precisely the thing officials tell their ministers about to keep themselves beyond reproach? This predates no surprises. The police had to tell the PM of the day about picking up Moyle precisely to avoid the charge of using that information to their advantage.
  
  Rodney Hide
  
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  November 2, 2019 12:02pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    That’s going to be the question Rodney, overlooked by whether the information was private and ought not to have been disclosed (or indeed under what circumstances warranted its disclosure). As to the later, if the information was eventually used (or misused) to political advantage against a political opponent.
    Part of your question about filling out a super application ‘to your advantage’, is intention – normal mens rea. Guilt is ultimately decided by the Courts, not by public servants or politicians advancing to a point of guilt without due process. Our BORA recognizes due process. Unlike in Moyle the police don’t appear to have been involved in this process which is a normal part of due process and investigation. On the face of it somebody determined guilt here without it being established and advanced from there.
    
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    November 2, 2019 1:55pm
  - MCos
    
    Rowling was PM June-17, 1975 when Moyle was detained for allegedly propositioning an undercover policeman.
    Muldoon found out about because word got around i.e. gossip.
    
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    November 2, 2019 5:00pm
- secondcumming
  
  Can’t see this going too well for Peters. Particularly as they describe his legal representative, *Brian Henry*….. “as a one-time advocate for well known blogger Whaleoil, aka Cameron Slater”.
  
  Just saying.
  
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  November 2, 2019 1:14pm
- RiP NZ
  
  The NZ taxpayer has given far more to Peters than he has ever given in return.
  
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  November 2, 2019 1:49pm
srylands

This is well worth watching. It is as funny as hell 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3kJwQBZOkM

Andrew Neil grills Extinction Rebellion activst Zion Lights
9 0
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November 2, 2019 11:40am
Jack5

Russia’s new internet-control law came into force on Friday.

It extends to plans for Russia to develop its own internet domain system.

I bet our Censor and the Human Rorts Commission would like these powers, though they’re already part-way there (a 16-year-old held two months in prison for having a copy of the mosques terrorist’s manifesto). Our Big Brothers aren’t elected, but Putin at least pretends to be democratically elected.

https://www.technologyreview.com/f/614662/russias-law-that-lets-it-disconnect-from-the-internet-comes-into-force-today/
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November 2, 2019 11:55am
Maggie Pie

I’ve noticed that stephie immediately downticks everything i post with even reading it.

So obvious 🙁
19 3
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November 2, 2019 12:18pm
- sooty
  
  He just hates biggly anyone with the name Maggie/Maggy!
  Because he’s been handed his arse so many times!
  
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  November 2, 2019 1:37pm
chaos

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this is happening in New Zealand as well, we know how some immigrants already basically have slave labour in our country

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/11/slaves-for-sale-on-instagram-other-apps-report.html

* A slave market has been uncovered operating on popular social media apps, including Instagram and Facebook.

BBC News Arabic uncovered the horrific trade in domestic workers taking place in Kuwait, where many wealthy households have domestic workers from poorer parts of the world.

Journalists reportedly found Kuwaitis treating their employees as property on apps like Facebook, Instagram and 4Sale.

“African worker, clean and smiley,” one listing read. “Nepalese who dares to ask for a day off,” said another.

Owners told the journalists, posing undercover, that once purchased they should confiscate their new slave’s passport and phone, and deny them any time off. *
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November 2, 2019 12:56pm
- MCos
  
  I’ve heard of Thai restaurant workers employed to come out to NZ and work for this & get paid that. There’s little they will do because if they grizzle they worry about losing their job and consequently their work permit and must leave the country.
  
  I’ve also heard similar stories about Filipino dairy workers down in Canterbury.
  
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  November 2, 2019 4:23pm
pb

You know when you read a book and find out something shocking, and wonder why you’d never heard of that before. Stumbled over the description of the Hell’s Angels in the free Rolling Stone’s concert in Altamont, 1969. Includes a stabbing and three accidental deaths. Holy mackerel.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2113019.Dionysos_Rising

He covers the Manson murders at Polanski’s place too. I can see now why Tarantino tried to re-write the story in “once upon a time in hollywood”. It seems Manson epitimised the 60’s sexual revolution.
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November 2, 2019 12:58pm
- stephieboy
  
  pb he also wrote this book,
  
  Jewish Fables: Darwinism, Materialism, and other Jewish Fables
  
  by E. Michael Jones
  
  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39706225-jewish-fables
  
  What does” Jewish Darwinism” mea?!
  
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  November 2, 2019 2:04pm
  - pb
    
    Darwinism he pings as an half arsed godless answer to life. Darwin was hard core Christian. Dr Jones distills Darwinism down to a nihilistic “shit happens”. Balls bump into other balls, and you get life. LOL.
    
    You want your Overton window moved read this
    
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1449354.Libido_Dominandi
    
    It’s a take on Augustine’s City of God, rape of Rome. That you are enslaved by your vices. Each of your sneaky sins, enslaves you.
    
    I am reading it now. Upto 1950. Kinsey, of the infamous Kinsey report, was a notorious homosexual funded by Rockefeller. He used to get dossiers from his interviews, like confessions. These were of the same format used so effectively by the Illuminati. And by Masons. And by other totalitarians. First, he got confessions of sexual depravity (goaded by him) recorded on tape. He was known to encourage confessions by demonstrating how he could insert a toothbrush into his urethra, on tape! It went on for years. Eventually he was busted and was defunded. He got sad, and tried hanging himself. But by his testicles.
    
    Great read. I wonder how will it end?
    
    God bless
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:57pm
- toby1845
  
  pb, the Altamont concert and the stabbing of Meredith Hunter was mentioned in Don McLean’s ‘American Pie’.
  
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  November 2, 2019 10:19pm
chaos

This has to be one of the most stupid policies from national yet. If you are going to require that people on a benefit vaccinate their children it should be all on a benefit, to just target solo parents is weird.

* Simon Bridges says National would punish solo parents who don’t immunise their children, but not others, because it’s a “clear cause-and-effect lever… within in our power.”

The proposal to cut benefits for solo parents who fail to get their kids immunised is one of many hardline welfare National suggested this week. It quickly came under fire for targeting solo parents and letting other parents – those receiving Working for Families credits, for example – off the hook.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/simon-bridges-okay-with-anti-vaxxers-as-long-as-they-re-not-on-the-taxpayers-dime.html
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November 2, 2019 1:09pm
Maggie Pie

Group Notice:

I’ve been commenting here for about 8 months now, but have always found the ‘delete function’ has never worked for me, thus resulting in a pointless ‘dot’ being shown. (Why it actually attracts upticks is beyond me)
To counter this in the future, Ive decided that after first attempting to still remove a post in the conventional manner, i will now substitute the original text with the words:
‘Bombay Bum’.
So, rather than just displaying as a pointless (.), it will simply show i have unsuccessfully been unable to remove the comment.

[This should not in any way be taken that i am suffering from some form of unfortunate malady] 😛
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November 2, 2019 1:49pm
- Komata
  
  Maggie@1349
  
  You do realise I hope, that by using the term ‘Bombay Bum’ you might well be accused of being afflicted with a ‘Colonialist/ Imperialist White Anglo Saxon Capitalist Exploitative mentality, and by using it you are possibly insulting and offending the Dalits and other good people of Mumbai who, through no fault of their own, are forced to live on the streets of that city…
  
  (Just saying).
  
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  November 2, 2019 3:42pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Do you think ‘Black Hole’ would be more acceptable?
    
    4 0
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    November 2, 2019 4:44pm
- sooty
  
  That’ll be interesting in the comments!
  Robbos “Bombay Bum” was hanging out of his chaps!
  
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  November 2, 2019 3:49pm
  - niggly
    
    For crying out loud Sooty, some things just can’t be unread and to make matters worse I ran out of mind bleach (spent the money on more popcorn instead, this Clayton’s Government just doesn’t stop giving)!
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:15pm
DigNap15

I get very annoyed when people call Ardern a part time prime minister.
How many other prime ministers have we had that have visited nearly every primary school in New Zealand.
18 1
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November 2, 2019 1:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  And on the Islands
  
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  November 2, 2019 3:25pm
  - sooty
    
    Has she missed any and will she make up before the election, that will depend when Whinestone collapses the COL, so she had better pull finger!
    
    7 0
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    November 2, 2019 3:43pm
Komata

I may have missed it, but what was the result of the ‘Drunken Revelry at a Weekend Labour Camp’ Court case on Thursday?

The ‘Silence of the media’ would seem to indicate that no sentences were imposed and that the ‘defendants’ name was suppressed indefinitely.

If that IS in fact the case, then it shows exactly ‘How really concerned’ the PTPM actually is…

Thanks.
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November 2, 2019 2:18pm
Cobolt24

US adds 128,000 jobs in October, smashing expectations

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jobs-report-october-2019-bls-employment-211125748.html
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November 2, 2019 3:30pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Cobolt24 … Check my posts about 24 up-thread … considering the USA and China.
  
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  November 2, 2019 5:01pm
Jack5

Bojo throws fracking out of the Tory plane as it limps towards the election:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-says-ban-fracking-20790576
2 0
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November 2, 2019 3:40pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  That’s really dumb. UK likely has enough gas to be self sufficient for a century, rather than relying on Russian gas. Would do fantastic things for their balance of trade too.
  
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  November 2, 2019 3:58pm
rightoverlabour

Hmm, Coldest since the Maunder Minimum ( Little Ice Age)

https://electroverse.net/central-england-experiences-historically-chilly-october/

Of course this is just weather, so no one will mention this in the MSM… or tell The Greta, or start to read and understand science….
4 1
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November 2, 2019 7:43pm
- chaos
  
  What is concerning is the large crop failures in the USA the past month because of the cold weather.
  
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  November 2, 2019 8:00pm
Komata

A very curious response concerning my 1418 post: A downtick for asking a simple qustion.

;The ‘ticker must have been a Labiur Party supoorter? ‘cos how dare I ask questions about matters within theirv beloved party!!

Socialism; coming to a country near you….
6 1
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November 2, 2019 7:52pm
Komata

… Darn, timed-out and moderated, so unable to correct the spelling errors!
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November 2, 2019 7:59pm

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