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November 23, 2019 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 November 2019

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General Debate

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cmm

Carbon is not a poison. Carbon is life. It is not a coincidence that organic chemistry (the chemistry of carbon) has that name.

If it was not for volcanoes spewing out CO2 we would run out of carbon and we would be living on a wet barren rock.

We have a Carbon Cycle (based on CO2) that is equivalent to the Water Cycle (based on evaporation and rain).

For “scientists” to say CO2 is bad is as preposterous as a doctor calling your heart a tumour.
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November 23, 2019 8:07am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Please provide a citation for any scientist stating that “carbon is bad”, or “CO2 is bad”.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:08am
  - skyblue
    
    I am sure Mikey Mouse from the Blind Institute of Namibia as part of the 11000 ‘scientists’ wanting change will agree that CO2 is bad.
    
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    November 23, 2019 8:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    PTPM knows a lot about this – she is always traveling so climate change summits. But sorry, PTPM is not a scientist
    
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    November 23, 2019 8:34am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      She’s always chipping away or fishing at something.
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:05am
      - sooty
        
        She’s always away, holiday in the sun, shopping trips, kindy hide aways!
        
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        November 23, 2019 6:28pm
  - cmm
    
    mma: No scientists say it is bad, just “scientists”.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Even a quote from a “scientist” that “carbon is bad” could go some way towards bolstering your hysterical opinion,
      
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      November 23, 2019 9:46am
      - cmm
        
        Where do I say “scientists” say “carbon is bad”?
        
        I never said that.
        
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        November 23, 2019 3:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You said “carbon is not a poison”. why on Earth anyone would need to say that quite escapes me. You then went on to say ‘for “scientists” to say CO2 is bad’.
        Now you want to wriggle off the hook you place yourself on. Man up and admit being foolish.
        
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        November 23, 2019 4:24pm
  - rouppe
    
    How about anyone that says the target is to be carbon neutral, or that we have to “exit the carbon economy”
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:23am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Even you might be expected to know the difference between ‘carbon neutral’ and ‘carbon is bad’.
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:50am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        And here in NZ we get the ZERO Carbon Bill
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117244331/national-will-support-climate-change-zero-carbon-bill
        
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        November 23, 2019 2:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m absolutely staggered that distinguished scientist Maggy Wassilief doesn’t know what the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Act 2019 was about.
        
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        November 23, 2019 3:11pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yeah, but at least I know black Carbon is bad when you are inhaling it all day and night, stuck in your little hut cooking over a wood/dung fire.
        
        But as you want some scientific citations that Carbon is bad… Check out the references here:
        https://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/default/files/media/Air/black-carbon-in-new-zealand.pdf
        
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        November 23, 2019 7:40pm
      - Michael
        
        Trolling MM
        CO2 is a necesary gas not bad or a poison
        
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        November 24, 2019 5:46am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Human beings are Carbon Based Life Forms.
  
  Think about that the next time a politician mentions Carbon Credits.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:11am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Maybe that’s the problem. Some of the politicians that run our world behave like they are not human.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:36am
  - JackRabbit
    
    @Mod
    Bump
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:26am
- Justitia
  
  I agree cmm. Without carbon there would be no life. Carbon dioxide is a trace gas. Present levels are around 0.04% of the atmosphere. They have been much higher in the past. The world did not end, it became greener. The UN is an increasingly dangerous, corrupt actor spreading “man made climate change” hysteria.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:14am
- peterwn
  
  While carbon itself is not a poison, compounds containing carbon may be – think carbon monoxide or cyanide.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:47am
  - skyblue
    
    Tyese are not considered organic chemistry. Benzene causes cancer. Pyridine are bad for your testicles. These are organic materials. PS, I have an MSc majoring in Organic Chemistry.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:20am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And don’t forget that DEADLY POISON-
    C12H22O11
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:23am
    - rangitoto
      
      Ban it!
      
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      November 23, 2019 9:47am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Tax it! Tax it! (Most I suppose will have to google that one…. Bit like Dihydrogen Monoxide, used in Nuclear reactors)
      
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      November 23, 2019 10:29am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Then mix it with dihydrogen monoxide
      
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      November 23, 2019 10:50am
      - skyblue
        
        Nice with the stimulant caffeine.
        
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        November 23, 2019 10:57am
      - rangitoto
        
        I find it best with hydroxylic acid.
        
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        November 23, 2019 11:02am
  - Peter S
    
    Not sure whether that was a comment that was way too subtle and came off as looking dumb, or just dumb.
    
    There is as much Nitrogen in cyanide as there is carbon, and as much oxygen in carbon monoxide as carbon, but I don’t think there is a push to demonize those elements.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:25am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Just dumb, like cmm’s opening comment.
      
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      November 23, 2019 9:47am
      - Peter S
        
        The only dumb bit about cmm’s comment was that it challenges the prevailing religious orthodoxy, and so tends to stir up the usual zealots who’s blind faith in science and scientists is usually inversely proportional to their knowledge of, or training in, relevant scientific disciplines.
        
        I have had a number of “CO2 bad” comments from scientists (usually those from the biology and environmental side).
        
        The real heart of the climate change problem is the abuse of the computer data modeling of data (which is my direct area of science expertise), and statistics (not my area) by scientists from other disciplines.
        
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        November 23, 2019 12:25pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Patrick Moore left Green Peace when they decided to ban Chlorine. Activists are usually dumb twats who know nothing about what they are screaming about. Remember the Dihydrogen Monoxide farce with our Greens? and not only them by the looks of it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:11am
      - Peter S
        
        Yeah. I had a good chuckle about the dihydrogen monoxide one.
        
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        November 23, 2019 12:08pm
      - pentwig
        
        I am left wondering why steffie did not link that minus the parody.
        You are slipping steffie.
        Busy morning at the mall?
        
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        November 23, 2019 12:14pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    I understand your point, but every structure is made of basic universal building blocks. It’s what you do with it that counts.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:39am
  - cmm
    
    Meh. Carbon monoxide contains oxygen too and oxygen over ppO2=2 is poisonous.
    
    That is not the point.
    
    The point is that CO2 is the link in the carbon cycle that allows plants to grow and move carbon from one place to another.
    
    Without CO2 we are dead.
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:59am
- coge
  
  The human body is 18% carbon. Plenty of believers, and it seems scientists seem unaware of this.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:08am
- rightoverlabour
  
  The earth was moving to mass extinction of green life in about a million years if the CO2 levels continued to trend downwards to below 180 ppm. CO2 levels are the lowest they have been in nearly 540 mil years. See Patrick Moore for a fuller analysis.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:27am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    To the downticker…. Debate the point or fuck off. Present evidence to refute my point. Go on, I dare you to..
    
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    November 23, 2019 12:51pm
    - sooty
      
      I think they left!
      
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      November 23, 2019 1:26pm
Littletramp

My favourite comedian, George Carlin in 1999 on politicians. Start at 10.30 mins. Does this remind us of anyone in this country? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc0ZHsoHAlE
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November 23, 2019 8:10am
- KiWombat
  
  He might be related to Winston?
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:10am
JibberJabber

Thomas Sowell

We are among the biggest fools in history if we keep on paying people to make us hate each other. Whether it is called by pretty names like “multiculturalism,” “diversity” or “gender awareness,” that is what it all boils down to.
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November 23, 2019 8:12am
G152

+Peters threatening the NZ media calling them ‘fake news’ yet trying to threaten them through the same ‘fake news’…
I hope the two national members lately dragged into court by the egotist decide to seek redress but after Peters has quit Parliament so the taxpayers dont have to pay anything and he can see what ever empire he dreamed of evaporating before his eyes.
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November 23, 2019 8:13am
- Ruahine
  
  If Peters had a shred of decency he would issue a public apology to both Bennett and Tolley.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:30am
  - JibberJabber
    
    He hasn`t so he won`t.
    
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    November 23, 2019 8:55am
    - sooty
      
      Pigs may fly first!
      Only if the court ordered it!
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:11am
  - JackRabbit
    
    You have more chance of Jacinda throwing a huge tantrum and resigning over Winston than Winston apologising.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:41am
    - calendar girl
      
      I would welcome both actions.
      
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      November 23, 2019 2:00pm
  - curry4me
    
    If.
    
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    November 23, 2019 11:32am
  - pdm
    
    Peters and Decency are not words that sit naturally together.
    
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    November 23, 2019 11:40am
  - RightFirstTime
    
    Now look here sunshine. Apologise for what?
    
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    November 23, 2019 1:08pm
    - sooty
      
      Or I will sue you too!
      
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      November 23, 2019 6:31pm
- peterwn
  
  AFAIK Winston is paying for the lawsuit personally (or perhaps through one of his fronts) while the whole defence cost is falling on the long suffering taxpayer. Winston has already had to meet some journalists’ costs as he initially involved them. Paula’s and Anne’s lawyer will be seeking what costs he can to help ease the burden on the taxpayer but this would be a fraction of the actual cost they incurred.
  Winston has or has access to disposable $$$ that he can spend on ego boosting lawsuits. Trouble is, his victims are hit in the pocket even if vindicated.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:55am
  - JackRabbit
    
    With the trail of NZF companies listed here a day or so ago, NZF foundation donaters may not he happy that they are indirectly paying Winston’s lawyer to have mounted this sham lawsuit. i.e conned by financial trickery into supporting something they most likely disagree with.
    
    Instead of donating to help Winston help the country, they have been donating to a common criminal ripping off welfare, falsely declaring party donations. Some may have been aware of the latter, but they would not have expected donations channeled away from the party, unless these were direct bribes. Perhaps that is what the foundation was – a conduit for bribes, into addition to the paper bag bribes.
    
    There will be at least one or two, who having realised the degree of Winston’s con, won’t rest until things are put right.
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is Peters or Henry funded by loans from the Foundation?
    
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    November 23, 2019 11:08am
  - sooty
    
    Simon Wilson has been getting his own back for in the original courtcase by Whinny!
    I wonder how he gets on with Barely Sober, Whinestons tame reporter?
    
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    November 23, 2019 11:17am
- Michael Rodent
  
  Peters only said that all donations to the Party were legal and any claims otherwise were fake news – but that is not what this issue is about. The issue is about donations to the Foundation which result in loans to the Party.
  Winston is playing with words – donations to the Party are different from donations to the Foundation and loans to the Party.
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:03am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Just as petrol levies “are not tax” so Labour hasn’t increased tax.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:42am
Tony Stuart

Duncan Garner climbs into the PM this morning, in a piece that will have her reaching for extra pain relief, after yesterday’s dental surgery:

Here’s one for all you smart, knowledgeable followers of New Zealand politics: name the last time Winston Peters finished a full three-year term in office?

Take your time, and read on.

Peters will argue the toss over this question and answer, and will no doubt take such wild and unsubstantiated innuendo to the highest court in the land, but here’s my answer.

I don’t believe he has ever managed to finish a full term in government. Not ever.

Think about it. Not in the 1990 Bolger Government. Not as part of the 1996 Bolger/Shipley MMP arrangement with Peters, and not as part of the 2008 Clark Government.

Clark tried to wash her hands of it, claiming she had no ties to Peters, but he provided her with the numbers to be the PM, and Clark and Labour were dragged down daily by the constant leaks and information that challenged Peters and his ability to tell the truth.

Truth is Labour suffered by association after Peters denied receiving a $100,000 donation from the expat Kiwi transport and logistics billionaire Owen Glenn.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117651455/jacinda-ardern-faces-litmus-test-over-winston-peters

Garner is dead right. Peters is a perfect three from three; three times in government, three times he has either pulled the pin or had it pulled on him early.

And despite what Helen Clark might say, the stench of the Owen Glenn donation was a significant part of the change of government in 2008. Because in the MMP era, Peters is also a perfect two from two; both times he has been in government, the senior coalition party has lost the next election.

Garner closes with a word of caution for the PM:

But for Ardern to stand aside and say “Nothing to do with me” is farcical, and we aren’t that stupid. It has everything to do with her, as she’s only there because Peters chose her.

She will feel a sense of loyalty, and back him by saying nothing. But silence isn’t good enough, and neither are weak weasel words.

The PM will soon face her judgment day on Peters, and that might mean at the same time she is forced to call an early election.

Be careful when someone invites you into bed with them. The prize might seem great, but the price is always paid just a little later.

There’s an old saying that when you lie down with dogs, you end up with fleas. I suspect Ms Ardern has the itching powder close at hand today, and well as the pain relief.
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November 23, 2019 8:15am
- artemisia
  
  Mr Peters can force an early election any time he chooses. But he won’t want an early election until the current fiascos fade from the media and the public mind. Unless he knows there are more skeletons stirring.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:29am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    He knows all right, as Richard Prosser hinted yesterday. This scandal isn’t over, not by a long way.
    
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    November 23, 2019 8:43am
    - hookerphil
      
      I uptick in hope
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:14am
  - JackRabbit
    
    >>Mr Peters can force an early election any time he chooses.
    
    I disagree. He doesn’t see it as one of his choices. We do, but he doesn’t. He won’t go voluntarily, he will have to be pushed. He cannot fall on his sword or Taiaha.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:47am
- Liberty
  
  “could lead to an early elections, says Duncan Garner.”
  Duncan is right. But we have a government made up of inept
  no bodies . Who only got into power because a miniscule 3%
  voted for the vile Peters. The deluded fools believed NZF
  would go National . That was never going to happen.
  So we now have 3 parties entrenched in the Big house
  Sucking of the state tit and the power of office as if there is no tomorrow.
  Dear Leader is not going to give up her fools paradise lifestyle
  and the baubles of office because of an expendable
  charlatan. As Winston is just a List MP. A deal will be done.
  Winston will be removed to some office of baubles.London Paris.
  Just anywhere that is not here.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:56am
- pejhay
  
  To misquote Britney Spears:
  
  “Oops!…He did it again…”
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:11am
peterwn

So what does Winston mean when he says he is going to ‘deal with’ journalists when he returns from Japan? Try and sue them for heaps? Persuade Jacinda to pass laws restricting press freedom or what? Perhaps he will ramp up his rhetoric from ‘psycho’ to something worse.
His attempt to ‘deal with’ journalists over the superannuation business in the main failed miserably with the likes of Tim Murphy almost laughing his head off.
Oh! and Simon and Nick have good reason not to repeat something outside the House. If the old b*** sues them and loses hands down it would still cost Simon and Nick heaps (less the paltry 2B costs award). As it is the long suffering taxpayer is having to pick up most of the tab for the ‘superannuation’ case even if Winston loses on all counts.
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November 23, 2019 8:15am
- rjay
  
  Just trying to quieten them down while he is out of the country with no ability to reply easily.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:29am
  - Paulus
    
    Isn’t Peters back on Sunday from Tokyo ?
    
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    November 23, 2019 1:41pm
    - sooty
      
      If he is it’s not much longer than Cindys 24hrs in China!
      
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      November 23, 2019 6:34pm
- JackRabbit
  
  It is almost a guarantee that these threats are intended as general warnings to all, to not tangle with him. Indirectly it will be a veiled threat to NZF donators who are now unhappy, to not say anything or legal action will follow.
  
  Knowing the cost of litigation will put most people off. Especially when they are going up against a lawyer funded by their own donations to the NZF foundation.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:56am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston is into lawfare. His judgement is awful and I suspect worsening with age. He seems to be getting crankier and almost irrational at times disguised by his guffaws of jocularity.
  Is the hidden Foundation a resource to help fund these law/political adventures?
  
  Even if Peters actions, NZF and their associates are all legal defending the smell of tainted morality calls into question fitness for any public office.
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:21am
Lee C

Looking forward to it.
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November 23, 2019 8:17am
Happychappy

With all these political commentators spewing their views on Jacindas handling of the Winston Peters donation scandal John Armstrong gives his view on the hash of things Jacinda is making on this problem.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-arderns-making-royal-hash-distancing-herself-peters-and-nz-first-drama
But I think all the commentators are way off beat When Winston decided on Labour to lead the Country I would think after looking at the mess that Jacinda has created that Winston and his bullying Lawyerquickly found out they could control this Government through what they perceived as the weak link hence that is why Labour and Winston will never let you see the Coalition agreement. Jacinda is good at acting the roll of Prime Minister but is out of her depth at implementing policy or authority without Winston’s approval, and to step into this argument over donations she has to go to the polls giving Peters the opportunity to say Labour broke the Coalition deal not NZ First.
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November 23, 2019 8:18am
- Ruahine
  
  Ardern is a nominal PM at best. She is really only a social media person with a social media face and a social media vocabulary to go with her limited intellectual abilities. Little, Parker and Robertson are her controllers. They run the show.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:43am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    The three stooges of the apocalypse don’t make the depth in the car park puddle on a summers day, any deeper.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:10am
    - sooty
      
      I saw Cindys book in the wharehouse at 13th this morning and have to say that the picture on the cover does not win her any favors!
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:24am
  - Sacha
    
    @ Ruahine – agree. She is nothing.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:45am
  - JackRabbit
    
    >>>Little, Parker and Robertson are her controllers.
    
    No question about that. But it works because Jacinda is self powered by her own eclectic socialist and transgender ideas, because she was groomed by other controllers prior to this recent lot. Someone just had to get her in the right position and flick the on switch.
    
    Like Greta she is a wind up toy, fueled by hate and socialist brainwashing and indoctrination.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:53am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  ‘Ardern was relying on nobody bothering to check the veracity of what she said
  
  She was caught out. It is not the first time she has deliberately distorted the truth in such fashion in confident expectation that she would get away with such deception.’
  
  And there it is! Adhern thinks we, the unwashed waĺlet in this novella, are as shallow and stupid as she is.
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:08am
  - JackRabbit
    
    One of the problems of making things up as you go along is not being able to remember what you said. It requires an enormous amount of memory.
    
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    November 23, 2019 12:37pm
- Kabull
  
  It came to me this morning that what we are seeing is a perfect example of how a republic might work here. An elected president who has a pretty face and is a giver of hugs and empathy but has no ability to manage the country, with a prime minister who calls the shots and wields the power – frequently for his own benefit. Is that what we really want?
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Well, it would be a bit more complicated than that:
    First off:
    1. We would have to have Geoffrey Palmer’s Constitution of Aotearoa (incorporating te Tiriti)
    
    2. Helen Would be President Emeritus, aka Whaea o te iwi
    
    3. We would have 3 Presidents, M, F, and M/F
    
    4. We would not have a Prime Minister, as all Ministers are equal
    
    5. We underlings would be vassals of the PRC.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:51am
    - sooty
      
      No republic till Helen and Geoff are senile!
      Maybe next year if we are lucky!
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:27am
Inandout

Tony, Winston has (along with his memory) a short loyalty span.
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November 23, 2019 8:20am
oldpark

Heard NZs windbag Winston Peters on the news speaking from Japan . His rant was how he was going to sort out NZs Main Stream Media,when he got back to NZ. NZs MSM were usually his partner in slime. Wonder why he has turned dog on them .
Maybe after Peters creating mayhem and chaos in NZs Political system over 40 years most of it an abomination the usually compliant MSM have had enough.
Maybe just maybe when Peters gets totally exposed as beyond redemption,and gets a DCM he takes the far left lunatic Green Party and the hopeless waste of space inept inane Lie-bour Party
with him .
After all New Zealanders do not deserve the awful mind blowing social engineering created by Peters when he hitched his Party to a Lie-bour/ Green gang of no hopers. With NZF/ Lie-bour/ Green long past their use by date as they are quickly destroying the type of well being and lifestyle NZ was once famous for.
NZ under the Peters selected regime with his constant chaotic behaviour has cloned the Far Left Lunatic Green Party and the Inept Inane Lie-bour Party a mirror image of his ranting and raving .What a bloody embarrassment and an indictment of a sick political type of so called democracy.
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November 23, 2019 8:27am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston seems to be losing the plot. If this is ageing at work expect anything.
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:25am
- sooty
  
  Yep, all the media except Barry Soper!
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:28am
Lee C

Sorry a few mixed up ideas.

On Winston – the Narcissistic Personality Disorder is now totally in control.
The press will rise to his threats and he will be literally neutered in print and on-camera now.
He’s declared war on them.
The delusional narcissist has lost his marbles.
What a shame. He really was within an inch of redeeming an otherwise squalid political legacy by finishing on some kind of plaudit for being DPM.
But no, his ego and greed just couldn’t allow it to happen.
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November 23, 2019 8:27am
- niggly
  
  Well said, Lee C, well said.
  
  Did I read/hear yesterday that he has a “target” of 30-odd people he will consider suing?
  
  (Might have been on Magictalk or Bfd? They were politicians, media, bloggers etc)? Well if so LMFAO so much that I will have to get a new one, imagine the negative media coverage that will give him and NZF all the way to the next election and oblivion – what a way to go out – nuked and incinerated by the MSM!
  
  Oh agree with your “plaudit”, I like Winston as Foreign Minister (it’s just what NZ needs), pity he can’t be as reliable and statesman like all the rest of the time!
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:32am
Yvette

Jacinda Ardern said she had met with Mr Peters about the use of the New Zealand First Foundation for donations.
However, she did not seek an assurance from him that everything was above board – she said that was for the Electoral Commission to do. [1]

Since this matter could potentially bring down the Government – not so much in itself, but that certain people have now made it an issue of their honesty and integrity – is Ardern not a little remiss if she indeed did not seek an assurance from Peters “that everything was above board”, and if that was not a point of the meeting, what was?

Either she is treating the public as unintelligent, or she herself is not displaying behaviour that would seem expected of a person in her present situation – she, Ardern, having been selected by Peters to govern the country, supposedly for our well-being, should make the most minor effort to show that Government is valid or not.

[1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403819/nz-first-foundation-trustee-threatens-lawsuit-against-national-leader-and-mp
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November 23, 2019 8:28am
- Lee C
  
  It’s called “plausible deniability” .
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:42am
  - Yvette
    
    Lee C, but really it is not, is it? – “plausible”
    
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    November 23, 2019 8:56am
    - sooty
      
      Shit she must be worn out with all that lawnmowing!
      
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      November 23, 2019 11:30am
    - Lee C
      
      Agreed, not for anyone with a brain cell- but in Jacinda’s little politburo mind it is, Yvette.
      
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      November 23, 2019 2:34pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s also called “shirking responsibility”.
    Ardern has a higher duty as Prime Minister to uphold the whole of the functioning of the Government of New Zealand. That includes responsibility for oversight and control of the whole of the COL.
    
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    November 23, 2019 11:30am
- Ruahine
  
  Labour is playing a double game re NZ First. After Peters was found to be a liar in the courtroom trying to bully Bennett and Tolley, Labour has given the MSM the go ahead to go hard on Peters to knock NZ First out of the game but see if the voting public will accept Labours story of it all being nothing to do with them. Labours goal is to be able to govern with only the Greens.
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:26am
Tarquin North

The BFD blog should be renamed the Henry and Peter’s protection club. It’s sad to watch, I can’t see them lasting much longer.
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November 23, 2019 8:33am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I lost interest after begging bowl kitty got the dcm
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:02am
- Souvlaki
  
  They share the same solicitor as Peters……draw whatever inference you may from this fact.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:47am
- yossarian
  
  Not only was Paula Bennet’s fault that Winston can’t fill in a form correctly. But now it’s Bridges fault that Winston uses dodgy trusts to hide who his doners are. Simon must even amaze himself about how clever he is, without raising a finger
  
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  November 23, 2019 3:21pm
JibberJabber

Tinder is racking up quite the kill count isn`t it?
Maybe they should rename it the Ted Bundy app.
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November 23, 2019 8:42am
- pb
  
  The wages of sin is death
  
  What a ho
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:01am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    God-botherers attitudes towards multiple sexual partners derive from women not having control of fertility. Religious dogma is ways of dealing with the socio-economics of that. But the problem no longer exists so your morality is passe. Also; arsehole comment.
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:29am
  - Sponge
    
    With a comment like that you are just an arsehole.
    
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    November 23, 2019 2:01pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    I am Catholic and reasonably Conservative. Your statement is despicable.
    
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    November 23, 2019 6:19pm
Batman

Happy weekend to all the unwitting Russian assets on this blog! The Russian term for such people is “useful idiots”.

“Russia has been mounting a disinformation campaign for years to frame Ukraine for its 2016 election meddling, U.S. intelligence officials told senators.
https://t.co/sa55LAb0kU“
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November 23, 2019 8:46am
- chaos
  
  Nice to see you wishing yourself a happy weekend, but i doubt you are useful, just an idiot.
  
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  November 23, 2019 8:51am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s not a Russian expression.
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:29am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Popularly attributed to Lenin, but seems to have originated as a term for Italian social democrats allying with communists.
    But the sense is clear.
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:50am
  - stephieboy
    
    Useful Idiot
    
    If you have never heard the term “useful idiot” it was the attitude held by Vladimir Lenin towards communist sympathizers in the West (America). While Lenin and the Soviets held them in utter contempt they also viewed them as tools for dispensing communist propaganda to other countries, thus infecting foreign cultures with their totalitarian tripe. After their mission was complete, they were no longer “useful.”
    
    It’s a term the refers to brainwashed American marxists who blindly support any ideology that gets themselves out of real work and causes others to pay their way.
    
    it also refers to useful idiots who post inaccurate definitions of the term useful idiot on sites like the urban dictionary. while they believe that they are making some sort of statement, they are actually providing perfect examples of the term.
    An American who espouses Marxist ideals is a useful idiot.
    
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Useful%20Idiot
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:43am
    - Sponge
      
      The irony of you, of all people, posting about idiots.
      
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      November 23, 2019 2:04pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Both Russia and Ukraine interfered.
  China too probably
  
  ‘Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.’
  ‘A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.
  
  The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.’
  https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:42am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s a mighty nice looking red herring you’ve got there. How are you planning to cook it?
    
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    November 23, 2019 9:50am
  - stephieboy
    
    The name of the ” Ukrainian- American operative ..”??
    
    Seems like a variation of the simple-minded Crowdstrike conspiracy theory dreamt up by Trump and his cronies.
    
    https://apnews.com/23c9022665dc40a1a69e613459955112
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:49am
- JackRabbit
  
  The term “useful idiots” was coined by Stalin.
  There was also the term “peace” which means “no resistance to communism”. However things have changed somewhat in Russia. I understand your sentiment but Russia is probably the least of your worries.
  
  The power mongers that see and use the masses as “useful idiots” are not country specific. They do not align with any given country, but manipulate players within governments and world events.
  
  Right now we have more to worry about the power mongers in our own government screwing over the country with as much decorum as a Punch and Judy show.
  
  You have Winston, basically behaving like there are no rules, abusing the law to get his own self created Maori payout.
  
  We have Jacinda increasing Petrol Tax, banning
  oil exploration, passing knee jerk laws, and making media stunts out of every piece of bad news.
  
  You have Little manipulating the likes of Anna Osborne and Sonya Rockhouse. He does not care a continental about these women. As minister or mines, a union goon with sordid overseas links, and the advice given by seasoned miners, he would know that the there is a high probability that the miners themselves may have been responsible for the explosion.
  
  So for Little and Co and these ladies being hell bent on Justice it means they have already been told it was mine management. The entire Pike River mine saga was a media stunt to show that Labour was doing something while National had helped suppress the truth.
  
  If the Pike River mine expedition was objective, you have to allow for evidence that puts the dead miners at fault, and that what they will see will be very traumatic.
  
  You will never hear: “Mrs X, there is the leg bone of your husband, the brown stain on the rock is his burnt flesh. Oh, and there is the remains of his cigarette lighter. It would appear Mrs X, that your husband was responsible”.
  
  Regardless of what they find, if they find anything at all, it will always be portrayed as management fault, and therefore a National cover-up. I can almost guarantee that the mine entry progress will speed up as we enter election year, with “shocking” findings delivered sometime around late June or July to put National in a bad light.
  
  Think global, act local.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:18am
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    If there is evidence that puts the dead miners at fault, who will we sue to get our $$$ back?
    
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    November 23, 2019 5:22pm
kiwiracer

The bit I don’t understand is that apparently the Foundation loans money to the party which is then paid back, so you would then expect the foundation to have a healthy bank balance. . . . . .?
Or, maybe the foundation raises another loan with interest capitalised, we’ve seen that done before with disastrous results (Hanover Finance).
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November 23, 2019 8:52am
- MrLovebucket
  
  I’ve been thinking this myself. What are the other income sources NZF has to firstly pay back all loans and secondly, to pay for expenses. I’d love to see the parties finances in detail.
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:38am
- greybeard
  
  Donations are banked by the Foundation, unbeknown to most of the donors, who think their money is banked by the Party and therefore must have been declared.
  
  If the Party needs money and has to get a loan from the Foundation, then from where does the Party subsequently get the money to repay that loan ?
  – take out a 1 year loan
  – after 11 months and a bit, take out another loan and repay most of the previous loan. Pay the balance by using some of the small ( and undeclared ) Party donations.
  – rinse and repeat ad infinitum
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:54am
  - sooty
    
    Maybe the doners need to be careful of the name the put on the check and leave no room for it to be changed!
    
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    November 23, 2019 1:38pm
- Prince
  
  The Foundation also pays some significant electoral expenses for the party (illegally in my opinion).
  
  And yes, the loans to the party are repaid over the next few years, through funds that the Party, umm, obtains over that period.
  Possibly through donations by people or companies who have, ahh, benefitted in some way from the party being in power,
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:58am
- sooty
  
  Maybe they keep it in brown paper bags ready for distribution?
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Foundation may not be being paid back. If the Foundation receives the donations and passes them on via loan to the Party how can the Party repay those without itself having another source of income? Loans on deferred payments terms are not uncommon or unlawful.
  
  What is unreasonable is the odour of the suggestion of such games being played by any MP. That must reduce their mana as the cloaking of transparency expected of others suggests they do not subscribe to common morality.
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:38am
- alloytoo
  
  If the party doesn’t declare any donations where is it getting the money from to pay back the “Loans”
  
  Accountants and the IRD woudl like to know.
  
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  November 23, 2019 1:01pm
- Paulus
  
  It is a Revolving Loan – payback and re borrow simultaneously.
  
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  November 23, 2019 1:49pm
Fletch

I missed some of GD yesterday, being at work, etc, so not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the govt were touting a great forecast for our business confidence.

Over the next two years, world growth is expected to remain stuck at around 3 percent, amid stagnating global trade, low confidence and reluctance to invest: but that’s not the case in New Zealand.

The latest Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) economic outlook puts New Zealand’s growth forecast ahead of seven other countries we traditionally compare ourselves against, including Australia, Canada, the US, the EU, Japan, Norway and Sweden.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2019/11/oecd-growth-forecasts-show-nz-is-in-good-shape-report.html

Not sure how good their forecasting ability is, but according to the current Business Confidence Index (BCI) OECD data, New Zealand is fairly near the bottom. The only countries worse than us are Estonia, Ireland, and the Slovac Republic. It looks like even Turkey is higher than us!

https://data.oecd.org/chart/5LbI

So I don’t know where they get this “good news” from. I wish the journalists would actually practice journalism.
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November 23, 2019 9:26am
- Prince
  
  They get it directly from the Prime Minister – so no need to fact check, she is a financial expert.
  Usually the ‘good’ GDP numbers are ‘gross’. Take it back to per person, given NZ has had much higher % immigration than other OECD countries, and we are near the bottom.
  
  To be fair, National used the same gross numbers to claim financial success when they were in Government.
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:53am
G152

It might appear that the oft squeaked ‘Six years of whatever’ has changed to some claim of an investigation of National for some financial impropriety. Hopefully when this is found to be nothing can we look closer at the doings of the COL ???
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November 23, 2019 9:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The investigation of National for financial impropriety (ie. The JLR story) will be dragged out all through 2020…
  It’s not going to be settled any time soon.
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:56am
  - Happychappy
    
    Yes and that tells you a lot about the Coalition that they can influence what the serious Fraud office gets up to and you could tell in Winston’s threats and information on Nationals problems with electoral Law ,the reason why I am saying this is Peter’s and his Lawyer didn’t expect to get caught out on this scandal concerning a Foundation Fund.
    So now the those investigating Simon Bridges and National will have to get on with the investigation and produce a result for the public to see.
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:14am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I agree. JLR is most likely biding his time waiting to try to discredit National close to the election.
    They should have Waka Jumped him.
    
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    November 23, 2019 10:16am
  - sooty
    
    Not if Labour have anything to do with it?
    
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    November 23, 2019 11:37am
toby1845

An interesting and potentially significant development on our doorstep. The Bougainville Referendum is underway.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/117654926/pacific-island-referendum-could-give-the-world-a-tiny-new-country

It’s a fairly accurate snapshot of the issues, but the writer leaves out two important facts. If (as is almost certain) Bougainville votes for independence, it will become the sixth largest country in the Pacific. It will be bigger than Tonga and Samoa, and has more resources.

And talking of resources, PNG controls 40% of the Pacific’s tuna stocks. Half of these are in what will become Bougainville waters.

The stakes are high for all concerned. If Bougainville goes, expect a couple of other resource-rich provinces to start agitating for autonomy or independence. Then we will see the country break up, just as Yugoslavia did in the early 1990s. The only question will be whether it happens peacefully or with violence.
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November 23, 2019 9:41am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I guess there is no logical reason that the old colonial boundaries need to be retained in perpetuity.
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:56am
  - toby1845
    
    Fully agree. And that’s how many Papua New Guineans see it.
    
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    November 23, 2019 3:04pm
Jack5

Diversity dividend in Zimbabwe!

The Telegraph reports: “Thoroughfares in ten of Zimbabwe’s biggest cities and towns, including the capital Harare, will now bear the name Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa [the new President] as his government embarks on a campaign to eradicate the last visible vestiges of the country’s British past.”

The Zimbabwe Government says renaming more than 89 streets countrywide was both a reflection of the country’s values and “a social engagement tool that fosters understanding, peace and university in diversity.

Hughes Street in Mazvingo will become Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa Street, while Etherton Road in Bindura becomes Emmerson Dambudzo Mnangagwa Road.

Zimbabwe becomes wide awoke!
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November 23, 2019 9:43am
- Jules99
  
  The should have used the same names they were before the white man arrived. ?
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:23pm
Maggie Pie

Has it occurred to anyone else the only thing that Christchurch based but Chinese owned ‘Cloud Ocean Water’ actually manufactures, is plastic bottles?

Just saying.
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November 23, 2019 9:56am
Fletch

Trump previews the release of the Inspector General report next month. Doesn’t look good for those liberals at the top who tried the coup.

President Donald Trump previewed Friday the release of the Department of Justice inspector general report set down for December, describing the information as “historic.”
“They were spying on my campaign and it went right to the top and everybody knows it and now we’re going to find out,” Trump said.

The president gave an interview to Fox and Friends on Friday morning, in a phone conversation aired on the network.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/11/22/donald-trump-previews-historic-inspector-general-report-going-to-highest-levels-of-white-house/
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November 23, 2019 9:58am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Squirrel!
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:58am
Kabull

Interesting comments by Andrew Bolt regarding an Australian author who claims to be Aboriginal, and who has written a book in which he maintains pre-European Aboriginal settlements were over 1,000 strong and people lived in real houses with stock pens adjacent. The author has convinced the Aboriginal Affairs minister to support him and said minister is demanding that this new history be taught in schools.
Australia is going down the path we have traveled …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LXeQDgxXM
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November 23, 2019 10:11am
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear..
Jobs at the Auckland City Council swill trough for ex-journalists are drying up.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403927/auckland-council-communications-staff-numbers-decline

What do the 79 media folk at ACC do all day?
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November 23, 2019 10:23am
- sooty
  
  Seen as most will be Labour supporters, what do you think they will be doing?
  It won’t be playing with themselves, that’s for sure!
  
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  November 23, 2019 11:39am
- Paulus
  
  Get paid an average of $98,000 each per annum.
  And perks I would expect.
  
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  November 23, 2019 1:51pm
  - sooty
    
    Best friends with perks?
    
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    November 23, 2019 2:44pm
hookerphil

I attended a public meeting of the New Conservative Party on Thursday Night with Leighton Baker speaking, for about 90 minutes. I was very impressed, he went through in a very clear manner of of the 27 policies they have in their manifesto. I gained the impression that basically they stand for New Zealanders who wish to live their lives without any totalitarian control as is being shown by the current lot, i.e. Oil & Gas ban, plastic bags.
I also note that of course our current main opposition has actually voted for most of the changes that are being put through, i.e. arms and carbon control.
Overall, despite doubts that they may reach the 5% I intend to vote for them – a vote for National would appear in most cases just a continuation of our slide towards Socialism.
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November 23, 2019 10:28am
- Colville
  
  A vote for anyone but National or ACT is a vote for Labour.
  A vote for the Cons will certainly be wasted and is therefore a vote for Jacinda.
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:06pm
- stephieboy
  
  “..totalitarian control as is being shown by the current lot, i.e. Oil & Gas ban, plastic bags.”
  
  Why do you beleive in such werid stuff?
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:34pm
Wired-one

Jami-Lee Ross waving his little dick around on The Nation again this morning. The sooner this traitorous twat is rightly booted out of his electorate, the better. Knowing I pay for a part of his salary annoys the hell out of me!
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November 23, 2019 10:39am
- Gravelroad
  
  I didn’t watch it so really shouldn’t comment perhaps, but, is there anything newsworthy left about this man? Can’t understand the fascination with him really.
  He is a has-been.
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:24pm
  - alloytoo
    
    The only potentially interesting thing about JLR is where he’s getting the dosh for all the new posters he has up.
    
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    November 23, 2019 1:15pm
JackRabbit

@Mod

Oh dear, being selective when you approve comments again.
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November 23, 2019 10:58am
Fletch

For those keeping score in the impeachment hearings, it’s not looking good for the Dems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3pxtj9P3T4
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November 23, 2019 11:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Au contraire. The evidence against the president mounts up.
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:01pm
  - rangitoto
    
    0 + 0 + ……. = 0
    
    It’s really mounting up.
    
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    November 23, 2019 1:13pm
- stephieboy
  
  Fletch, Fox News? What else?
  
  2 16
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  November 23, 2019 12:35pm
- SGA
  
  Highly partisan summaries or edited highlights (be it Fox or CNN) can give very misleading impressions of events. For example, I could probably put together 5 edited minutes of the recent All Blacks vs England game that would leave you amazed that the ABs lost (ok, 5 minutes might be pushing it 🙂 , but you get the point).
  
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  November 23, 2019 2:02pm
curry4me

Some will find this encouraging. Others will see it as cause for concern. I’ll likely give them two ticks in 2020.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/poll-shows-third-kiwis-would-consider-voting-conservative-christian-party-next-election?fbclid=IwAR2PR-e3sdoebzzfjaa79blo7Wm3NbV9JbSeijcnvTO6drQ52Bp9ErJuFCE
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November 23, 2019 11:43am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Always good to see another ‘Christian’ party for conservonutters to waste their votes on.
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:03pm
- rockape
  
  Encouraging so long as those voters come from the left.
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:13pm
- stephieboy
  
  The history of elections so far demonstrate that when push comes to shove Chrisitian parties usually poll relatively poorly!
  
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  November 23, 2019 12:38pm
slightlyrighty

https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6107094234001

Finally a Climate Change measure I support wholeheartedly. 😉
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November 23, 2019 11:44am
- andydownhere
  
  If they believe in man made climate change they shouldnt fly here anyhow. Good dont come, had no hits for years anyhow. Just would have come to fleece us again
  
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  November 23, 2019 10:42pm
curry4me

The Brexit Party have released their manifesto. It’s called the Contract With The People. They want to leave the Fourth Reich, cancel high speed rail, and cut ‘foreign aid’ by 50 %. The money is to be used for a Brexit Dividend. The House of Lords is to be abolished, and the BBC license fee will gradually disappear. You can see for yourselves below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6C46cqwS8E
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November 23, 2019 11:47am
Hugh Pavletich

UPDATE … The long – term severely dysfunctional Christchurch City Council …

… Tell The Press what you know …

Secrets and lies: Will the public ever know what Christchurch City Council was hiding? … Dominic Hare … The Press / Stuff

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/117600531/secrets-and-lies-will-the-public-ever-know-what-christchurch-city-council-was-hiding

A major investigation has revealed a culture of secrecy among top leaders at Christchurch’s council to keep negative information out of the news. But the public may never know what was hidden from them. DOMINIC HARRIS reports.

It is a badge of dishonour the Christchurch City Council will be embarrassed and ashamed to have to wear.

A 10-month investigation into how the authority handles public information has uncovered a culture of secrecy, deception and cover-ups.

Perhaps most alarmingly, there is evidence to suggest some of the council’s most senior staff deliberately altered reports and hid negative information from councillors, the mayor and the public to protect its image. … read more via hyperlink above …

Do you know more?
Email dominic.harris@stuff.co.nz
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November 23, 2019 12:05pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  FURTHER UPDATE …
  
  Ombudsman eyes new watchdog for councils … Marc Daalder … Newsroom
  
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/22/913208/mps-ombudsman-discuss-new-oversight-agency-for-local-government
  
  … extract …
  
  … News deserts worsen situation
  
  (Chief Ombudsman) Boshier praised the work of journalists covering local government, even as news deserts could mean dysfunction in councils slides by unnoticed. “I do think, from media that I see asking the questions that they do, that they are vitally interested in local government,” he said.
  
  “If you look at, for instance, what the Christchurch Press is following up in relation to [Boshier’s review in] Christchurch, there’s a keen interest by journalism. I do want to say, at the macro level, there’s a lot of interest by media in councils and they pursue it with some vigor.”
  
  Local outlets asking these questions, he said, “is vital. Not only are we there to oversee and monitor, but I think the media’s got a vital job in this and we should always encourage that.”
  
  A 2018 study in the United States found that borrowing costs in municipalities jumped after local newspapers closed down. “Our main finding is that newspaper closures have a significantly adverse impact on municipal borrowing costs in the long run. Specifically, following the three year period after a newspaper closure, municipal bond offering yields increase by 5.5 basis points, while yields in the secondary market increase by 6.4 basis points,” the paper’s authors wrote. … read more via hyperlink above …
  .
  .
  Opinion: Council’s secret service brigade … Barry Clarke … Star News / Otago Daily Times
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-christchurch/opinion-councils-secret-service-brigade
  
  The city council’s self styled secret agent brigade which has been outed for allegedly manipulating information from reports to keep it from the public is nothing short of disgraceful.
  
  Those issues have been well traversed in the media since Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier’s scathing report came to light last Thursday.
  
  But what is also equally disappointing is how the city council went about alerting the public it had been caught out.
  
  The city council published an article about the Boshier report on its own news service – Newsline. … read more via hyperlink above …
  .
  .
  Chief Ombudsman – New Zealand
  
  https://www.ombudsman.parliament.nz/about/who-ombudsman
  
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  November 23, 2019 9:23pm
Straight arrow

The Trump administration plans to stipulate that all underlying data from studies that underpin public health regulations from the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) must be made publicly available so that those data can be independently validated.

The editors of The Journal of the American Medical Association, in response, write:
“Some individuals and groups simply do not believe that pollution or climate change affects human health. Research on climate change, and the effects of climate change on the health of the planet and human beings, if made available to anyone for reanalysis could be manipulated to find a different outcome than initially reported.
“… It is challenging to balance the potential benefits of sharing data with the harms that could be done by reanalysis.”

First, the editors are making a plainly absurd claim: that some people do not believe pollution cause health problems. I don’t believe anyone has said pollution does not cause health problems. People are most likely complaining about articles either because they believe (a) climate change is not real or (b) it is not anthropogenic. Researchers may have stated in the articles “because of climate change, pollution will increase, and an increase in pollution leads to health problems”, but the only contentious part of that phrase is the first half.

Secondly, and this is disturbing from a scientific and ethical viewpoint, is that the editors are saying is that from a single data set it is possible to reach different conclusions, and this is may be dangerous because people may come to conclusions that contradict the editors’ world view, so we should err on side of caution and restrict data to “trusted” researchers only.

Robustly challenging ideas, is a basic concept, especially in the scientific community.
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November 23, 2019 12:16pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  “climate change is a hoax invented by the Chinese to make the US manufacturing less competitive”.
  – Donald Trump making a stand for scientific integrity.
  
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  November 23, 2019 3:17pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Rubbish!!!
    
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    November 23, 2019 7:00pm
- Straight arrow
  
  I see that 2 people have down voted my comment, and have failed to say why. Fine, but proves the point that they don’t think ideas should be robustly challenged.
  
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  November 23, 2019 3:49pm
stephieboy

The latest from the blow hard in the Whitehouse,

“ Yovanovitch’s lawyers rate Trump’s embassy portrait claim Pinocchio worthy”

“Lawyers for former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch say President Donald Trump’s claim that she refused to hang his picture in the U.S. embassy in Ukraine is false.

“The Embassy in Kyiv hung the official photographs of the president, vice president, and secretary of state as soon as they arrived from Washington, D.C.,” a person connected to her legal team said,

Trump told “Fox & Friends” on Friday morning that he was angry with the former ambassador because “she wouldn’t hang my picture in the [U.S.] embassy [in Ukraine].” The president also told the talk show that Republican lawmakers had told him to be “kind to her” because “she’s a woman….”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/403868/trump-impeachment-hearings-ukraine-meddling-theory-fictional-narrative-former-advisor
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November 23, 2019 12:56pm
Jack5

It’s like the Cold War all over again, this time we’re in the conflict zone …

A Chinese spy has defected to Australia. Meanwhile, Chinese agents are trying to intimidate people in Australia.

Is it happening here? We won’t find out from our media. For example, the Star, the weekly free newspaper in Christchurch, and which says it has the highest readership of any publication in the city, runs advertisements from the Chinese government.

A half-page advertiesment in this week’s issue claims things are “booming” in Xinjiang, which is the territory where ethnic Uighurs by the thousand are being held in camps.

In the second Sydney Morning Herald article linked to below, Anson Chan, former chief secretary of Hong Kong says:

“No one should be under any illusions about the objective of the Communist Party leadership: it’s long-term, systematic infiltration of social organisations, media and government. By the time China’s infiltration of Australia is readily apparent, it will be too late.”

China spy defects to Australia:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/defecting-chinese-spy-offers-information-trove-to-australian-government-20191122-p53d1l.html

China interference in Australia:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/peter-hartcher-on-china-s-infiltration-of-australia-20191118-p53bly.html
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November 23, 2019 1:32pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Those are quite alarming reports, but will leaders of our two main parties take seriously the implications for NZ? I doubt it.
  
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  November 23, 2019 2:13pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No, they won’t. They really won’t. Any more questions?
    
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    November 23, 2019 3:18pm
- IC5000
  
  So has Beijing Bridges received instructions on how he should react yet?
  
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  November 23, 2019 6:38pm
Steve Todd

A plea to all barristers!

Not one of you can act, so please, please, stop trying to. The embarrassment you engender in us all is truly excruciating.
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November 23, 2019 1:33pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Rumpole could!
  
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  November 23, 2019 4:32pm
Yvette

Jami-Lee Ross draws some attention again.

Which leaves me still puzzled over Winston’s paranoiac “waka-jumping” legislation – otherwise: the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Act 2018

Therein it says, Section 55A (1) This section applies to every member of Parliament, except a member elected as an independent.
So, it applies to Jami-Lee Ross, elected National.

(2) The seat of a member of Parliament to whom this section applies becomes vacant if the member of Parliament ceases to be a parliamentary member of the political party for which the member of Parliament was elected.
Yep, that happened. It seems the Party cut Ross off so close to him resigning that no one is too sure which happened first.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (2), a member of Parliament ceases to be a parliamentary member of the political party for which the member of Parliament was elected only if—
(a) the member of Parliament delivers to the Speaker a written notice that complies with section 55B
No, (a) Ross did not do that

or (b) the parliamentary leader of the political party for which the member of Parliament was elected delivers to the Speaker a written notice that complies with section 55C.
No, (b) Simon Bridges did not do that either.

What did happen was, from Hansard, 16 October, 2018 –

Jami-Lee Ross—Change of Parliamentary Membership
Speaker: Under Standing Order 35(1)(c), I have been advised by the senior Opposition whip that the National Party’s parliamentary membership has changed and that Jami-Lee Ross is no longer a member of the National Party for parliamentary purposes. Accordingly, under Standing Order 34(5), Jami-Lee Ross is, from 16 October 2018, regarded as an Independent member for parliamentary purposes.

It was all handled under Standing Orders through communication by the senior Opposition whip to the Speaker.

Therefore, is it not true, despite all the care and integrity lavished on the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Act 2018 – and the general theory that, in an out-of-Cabinet arrangement between coalition leaders, it cost us all the oil and gas exploration ban to get the Greens on New Zealand First’s side – Winston’s legislation was by-passed, but by it’s statement in 55A (3) – the only if bit – by definition of Winston’s bill, Jami-Lee Ross must still be a National Member of Parliament.

So, what “integrity” does the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Act 2018 maintain when it can be trumped, as it so far is, by Standing Orders?
Or does it exist only to appease Winston, and its there solely for his use, when he wants it?
_________
Reference: Standing Orders –
34 Recognition of parties (5) Any member who is not a member of a recognised party is treated as an Independent member for parliamentary purposes.
35 Notification of party details (1) A party must inform the Speaker of —(c) its parliamentary membership.
The Speaker must be informed of any change in these matters.
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November 23, 2019 1:42pm
rangitoto

Taxinda’s New Zealand.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12287712
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November 23, 2019 2:34pm
- stephieboy
  
  rangitito, more a legacy that Sir John left behind,
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/94772646/south-auckland-shop-owners-live-in-fear-as-violent-robberies-rise
  
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  November 23, 2019 6:28pm
Prince

Any new on the Prime Minister’s Department’s attempted rapist ? Were Police ever told or do we rely on some review ?
Or the Young Labour kiddie fiddler court case ? Did he get name suppression ? What was the verdict ?
Or the alleged rapist Mallard claimed roamed Parliament ?
How’s Pike River going ? Any bodies recovered yet ?
Has the Kiwibuild Mark II started yet ? Any homes built ?
Where is the Auckland Regional Petrol going ? How much has been collected ? What for ? Any roads built with it yet ?

Or was all the above just hot air covering for a Government that really has no idea where it is going, or why ?
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November 23, 2019 2:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

What a joke..

Juken fined $152,000 for causing $$$millions of damage.
http://gisborneherald.co.nz/localnews/4392024-135/lift-your-game

Gisborne District Council – a “disgrace”
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403949/japanese-forestry-firm-fined-after-waste-washed-into-tolaga-bay
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November 23, 2019 4:03pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  “The penalty must be pitched at a level which deterred any repetition across Juken’s substantial operations.”
  
  Idiot court.
  Juken’s third offence.
  They pay a measly $152k to save themselves millions.
  Sure that fine is pitched at just the right level/
  
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  November 23, 2019 5:47pm
cmm

Just had Charles and Camilla fly over on their way back from Kaikoura.

Three NH90 helicopters. Enough to carry 60 people. Why?
6 0
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November 23, 2019 5:39pm
- Tall Man
  
  Whiskey?
  
  Chilli bin for the champers?
  
  Maybe they fly separately to get a bit of “not you time”…..
  
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  November 23, 2019 5:51pm
- stephieboy
  
  Royals always carry a lot of baggage including Camilla’s hat collection!,
  
  https://www.pinterest.nz/batterden/royal-hats-camilla/
  
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  November 23, 2019 6:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They have to stay together or get separation anxiety
  
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  November 24, 2019 8:03am
Swifty

For Morrissey:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9Ra0I_1574457602
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November 23, 2019 7:25pm
rightoverlabour

I see prisoners can vote now….
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November 23, 2019 8:15pm

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