General Debate 22 November 2019

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Scott

Why does Donald Trump matter to us here in NZ?
I would say that the direction of the west is at stake. Liberal/progressives realise this too and that’s why they want to impeach him, otherwise he might get reelected.

Trump’s nationalist agenda resonates with many people. Are we global citizens or are we citizens of an actual country? Trump is getting manufacturing back to America. Apple is now going to make ipads in America! Could we make things here or is everything going to continue to be made in China?

Is political correctness going to rule over us, telling us what we can and cannot say? Trump is not politically correct. He has a common sense approach to life. Will we in NZ get that back or is our speech going to be ruled by our elitist university trained overlords?

Are we going to be hostile to the traditional family? More abortions, euthanasia, drugs, smaller and smaller families consuming more and more welfare? Trump, for all his failings, is a family man with lots of children and grandchildren. He appears to have rediscovered his Christian faith. In NZ we seem to be content with a line of agnostic prime ministers who, especially on the left, are hostile to people of the Christian faith. Meanwhile they are openly supportive of the Muslim religion, our prime minister always keen to put on a hijab and hug a Muslim woman. Can’t she find any Christian women to hug as well?

On the economic front we have so much to admire about the Trump economy. This is why DPF’s TDS is so wrong headed. Imagine if we put in those economic settings – cut taxes, cut regulations, empower the energy sector? We could have a booming economy!

So for all Trump’s personal foibles I’m happy to put them aside to concentrate on his policy agenda. Which I think we could learn a lot from.
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November 22, 2019 8:03am
- SGA
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  So, from that post, am I right in thinking that you now think Trump might have been caught doing things he shouldn’t have been? And now your position is that such alleged behaviours should be overlooked because you like some of his policies?
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:19am
  - Jules99
    
    Foible = a strange habit or characteristic that is seen as not important and not harming anyone
    
    Cambridge Dictionary.
    
    Probably not impeachable.
    
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    November 22, 2019 8:40am
    - SGA
      
      Or perhaps Scott was using a euphemism – thought I’d check.
      euphemism = a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing
      
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      November 22, 2019 8:52am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘Foibles’ must be an all-purpose term encompassing rape, racism, treason, fraud, and obstruction of justice.
        
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        November 22, 2019 9:48am
      - 3-coil
        
        mikenmildagain (9:48am) – stop trying to change the subject, we’re not discussing Jacinda here!
        
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        November 22, 2019 11:51am
      - Jack5
        
        Further to this point of Scott’s: “In NZ we seem to be content with a line of agnostic prime ministers who, especially on the left, are hostile to people of the Christian faith.”
        
        The whole West has been biased against the Christians of the Middle East, who, with smaller religious groups such as the Yazidis, were selected for murder and slavery by the ISIL Muslim extremists.
        
        The West has gone along with UN-run refugee administrators’ discriminationg against Christians:
        
        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/26/politically-correct-discrimination-against-christian-refugees/
        
        And from a veteran NZ journalist familiar with the Middle East:
        
        https://www.nzcatholic.org.nz/2017/03/20/iraqs-christian-refugees-face-double-discrimination/
        
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        November 22, 2019 1:56pm
      - toby1845
        
        Milky boy: No, the word you are looking for us ‘Labour’.
        
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        November 22, 2019 6:37pm
  - mark15
    
    Prove them.
    Put up or shut up.
    
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    November 22, 2019 8:41am
    - SGA
      
      meh – at the moment, the US Congress is holding impeachment hearings to determine if there is enough evidence to warrant drawing articles of impeachment. If it decides that there is (probable, given in part the make up of Congress), then it will go to trial in the Senate. At that point, both sides can call witnesses, including those now protected by executive privilege (I think). At the end of that, given in part the make of the Senate and the need for a 2/3 majority, it is likely Trump would be acquitted.
      Until all of this unfolds, calls to “prove it” (unless you expect me to fly to the Ukraine and conduct my own investigation?) are empty.
      All we can do is watch play as it develops, and form our own opinions about what likely happened.
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    So you support the Hilarious ones?
    
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    November 22, 2019 11:09am
- Fletch
  
  The Democrats want to impeach him over ideology, basically. If he were mismanaging the country, that would be one thing, but America hasn’t been as prosperous in years.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:21am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Trump needs to do something about their healthcare, though. It’s a fiasco.
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:07pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Someone needs to, but it can’t be done by executive action, it is perhaps the legislatures job to work out new laws.
      
      My suggestions for at least an improved service in the US would be to allow interstate insurance competition (many states prohibit out of state companies offering insurance); and a reform of the tort laws. This last would be very difficult to get through, but when you realize that the cost to insure against medical malpractice suits costs an obstetrician in the US over $1M a year (and it is essential to have it), then you can understand at least one reason why health care in the US is so expensive. Trial lawyers are dead set against such a reform, so it isn’t likely, but it would cut costs significantly at all levels.
      
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      November 22, 2019 2:45pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        “I am going to take care of everybody … Everybody’s going to be taken care of much better than they’re taken care of now.”
        
        – Donald Trump 2016
        How is that plan to repeal and replace Obamacare coming along?
        
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        November 22, 2019 7:15pm
- fernglas
  
  “he appears to have rediscovered his Christian faith”. Thank you for the biggest chuckle of today.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:21am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    He did not re-discover it, he outsourced it to Mike Pence.
    
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    November 22, 2019 8:30am
    - IC5000
      
      As with the presidential demeanour.
      
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      November 22, 2019 12:14pm
- Simon
  
  With Trump its a case of the State vs the people. Trump will always side with the people over the State. The people that really hate Trump are bigly state worshipers or have a vested interest in State power. Like the Neo-clowns.
  
  Take Zero carbon a NZ eg. Trump would never vote for that piece of shit as it strengthens the State at the expense of the people.
  
  National happy to vote for Zero Carbon ie the State over the people. Trump exposes shitty Statist political parties like National who claim to be center right who are in fact nothing of the sort.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:28am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    Agree. National is a leftist party.
    
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    November 22, 2019 11:22am
- MCos
  
  Yesterday President Trump ‘opened’ an Apple factory in Texas.
  The plant, which is run by a company called Flex, has been making Mac Pro computers there since 2013.
  Apple CEO, Tim Cook, was with him at the time and didn’t pull him up on his mistake because it wasn’t in his interest. He needs favours from Trump.
  https://twitter.com/tim_cook/status/413335029264429056?s=21
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:30am
  - Batman
    
    Quite, Trump can claim all he likes that it’s new but it isn’t
    
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/20/20974999/trump-is-lying-about-the-new-apple-factory
    
    Oh and Scott – apple aren’t making iPads there. All of Apple’s products except for the Mac Pro will continue to be made overseas.
    
    And except the tariffs make the Mac more expensive because they apply to the components imported to make the Mac, whereas they don’t apply to fully assembled iPhones and iPads manufactured overseas. Quite the self-own for the US but that’s what tarrifs do, they harm the domestic market.
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:50am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Scott
  
  Although I disagree completely with the political agenda that you set out above, those are goals that are legitimate to pursue democratically.
  
  I guess the problem for US conservatives that wish to pursue such an agenda is that they have chosen Donald Trump to be their leader.
  
  Trump is a horrible exemplar of the things US conservatives puport to represent. Serial adulterer and sexual assailant, multiple failures in business, irreligious, racist, an authoritarian and admirer of authoritarians, profoundly ignorant of the world, and deeply corrupt, it is very hard to imagine a person less suited to lead a conservative agenda.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:48am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Some of those traits you identify mikey are those I would have thought a good lefty would deeply admire, – serial adulterer, sexual assailant (disputed, but the left sure admires a good rapist in their own ranks, ref WJC), and irreligious (never seen be complementary of a religion yet).
    
    As for racist, yes, Trump is deeply racist in the new sense – he refuses to believe that every lived experience, thought, and deed committed by a person must be seen and referenced through the colour of their skin. So like MLK, being more concerned with the content of a persons character than of their skin colour, Trump is by today’s leftist standard, racist.
    
    Authoritarian, actually considerably less so than Obama, and I don’t recall you dissing him. Obama had the Intelligence community eavesdrop on Senators, on reporters, had more whistle-blowers arrested than all other presidents combined, and used the IRS to attack his opponents at election time to help ensure his re-election in a tight race. People all call Trump authoritarian, but it’s pure projection. Trump has done remarkably little to infringe on anyone’s civil rights and is actually probably the least authoritarian POTUS since Reagan.
    
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    November 22, 2019 2:40pm
  - Jigsaw
    
    It’s YOU that does the imagining-that’s the problem. The man doesn’t fit YOUR idea of what a president should be like…..TOUGH!
    
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    November 23, 2019 3:50pm
- averagethief
  
  Trump’s flaws of behaviour and character are not just “foibles”. We shouldn’t use spin and euphemism the way the Left does. I agree with you that there is more to Trump than the dangerous narcissistic buffoon we all see and the comprehensive villain the Democrats and the bulk of the US media (and Hollywood soon, no doubt) wish to parade before the world.
  
  I also agree that the real reason the Dems hate him is that he beat their Queen and because he’s a serious prospect for a second term.
  
  Even if he presented better, they’d hate him: he’s a straight white male capitalist. It could only be worse if he’s a Christian – and you say he’s that as well! In other words, pure identity politics is enough to condemn him, no matter what he says or does.
  
  Add to this, he’s unorthodox and a maverick – doesn’t like being controlled or being governed by people with presumed authority rather than real authority. And he loves the United States – that too is a fault now.
  
  They’re afraid he’ll drain that swamp they’ve got the US bogged down in, which makes him their actual enemy, not just someone they despise on reflex.
  
  His actual bad behaviour is just topping. Notice that hardly anyone is curious about what makes him tick, about why he takes the lines he takes. For example, he might think Presidential Candiate Joe Biden is corrupt and he knows no-one else will look into it.
  
  I can’t say Trump’s good, but I certainly believe the Democrats are far worse – worse in character and far more dangerous.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:53am
  - G152
    
    The democrats are unaware that they have rewritten the rule book.
    Next democrat president will be indited upon election.
    And impeached.
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:19am
    - Batman
      
      *indicted.
      
      You’re assuming that the Republicans will take the house while having the most consistently unpopular President of modern times. That’s a gamble.
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:33am
    - stephieboy
      
      G152, based on what kind of “favors” asked for , or ” “this for that” ( equalling ” quid pro quo”!)
      
      Simple!
      
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      November 22, 2019 10:32am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    It’s not a matter of Republicans v Democrats – it’s that the Republicans would be better without him – all the double dutch language at the impeachment inquiry indicates disastrous politics, as does walking out on the Serbs and attacking your own Diplomats.
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:26am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Serbs, do you mean the Kurds ? And as I will eventually tire of repeating, every president since the first Bush have been accused of “betraying” the Kurds, and that’s Clinton, GHW Bush and Obama. All ultimately realized that the prospect of carving out an independent Kurdish state is essentially impossible, as is the prospect of a permanent US presence to de facto carve out a section of Syria and Iraq. So what’s the solution – let them work it out for themselves as best they can. At least Trump recognizes this rather more clearly than Obama did.
      
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      November 22, 2019 2:32pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        We should leave Brian alone
        I suspect, just quietly, he’s quite old
        
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        November 22, 2019 10:53pm
  - IC5000
    
    > doesn’t like being controlled or being governed by people with presumed authority rather than real authority.
    
    Fake Congress is attacking me! Stone cold losers. Sad!
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:16pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Get out of here. It’s not like the congress has any role in holding the executive to account?
      Checks and balances? So last century.
      
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      November 22, 2019 1:03pm
      - IC5000
        
        > It’s not like the congress has any role in holding the executive to account?
        
        Sounds unAmerican to me, something that only a commie would say.
        
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        November 22, 2019 4:48pm
- Justitia
  
  I agree completely Scott. Don’t forget Trump has also successfully put the squeeze on Iran’s Islamo-fascists who rule by terror and export terror elsewhere in the Middle East and into Europe. They are now under great pressure. At the same time he has shown he is not a war monger like his predecessors or Clinton.
  
  I despair of the bleak future of our society. If you survive being aborted before delivery you can spend your life in a haze of dope until being eventually euthanized by the State. This is the Socialist paradise.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:24am
- Billy Collins
  
  My defense of Trump isn’t because I particularly like him very much. I defend him because he is actually implementing the policies the people actually voted for him to implement, and many of those policies are very good. That is what matters and worth defending. The fact that so many, like DPF, who agree with his policies are willing to just throw the presumption of innocence out the window and be convinced by hearsay because they don’t like him personally is just immature.
  
  If he has actually become a genuine conservative Christian in his heart that would be nice, but even the most ardent Trump supporter knows Trump is a showman and a persuader. It could all just be a big show he’s putting on, and I definitely wouldn’t put it past him at all. But it doesn’t really matter. We already know politicians are bullshitters, but politics is a practical game. What really matters is ability to implement policy.
  
  The fact that he is making perfectly rational people behave legitimately deranged also just adds to the push to defend him.
  
  Until he is explicitly implicated in a nefarious quid pro quo, and not just hearsay, I’ll defend him on a presumption of innocence basis.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:51am
  - stephieboy
    
    Ah tut, tut ! You cant run for high officce when favours ask for ( especially an important and ally like Ukraine ) become the norm!
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:36am
    - Billy Collins
      
      Asking for a foreign govt to investigate a US citizen may or may not be inappropriate. Vindman says yes. His boss, Morrison, says no. It’s all opinion and you can’t just pick and choose which opinions are worth trusting, which is why relying on hearsay is idiotic. For what it’s worth, Morrison doesn’t trust Vindman’s judgement. Either way, inappropriate doesn’t count as illegal, or impeachable.
      
      So far, the circumstantial evidence is showing that the favour had less to do with the 2020 election and more to do with the 2016 election.
      
      But that’s circumstantial. You haven’t at all established motive there either.
      
      Trump has said openly that he never pushed a quid pro quo. Not just a particular one, but NONE whatsoever. Such a bold claim should be easy to discredit, so why have you guys got nothing but hearsay and presumptions to rely on? This would be so easy for you guys.
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:55am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Asking a foreign government may or may not be inappropriate. If appropriate, it would be done through the FBI or other law enforcement agency, but probably not by the president’s personal lawyer.
        But, as has become abundantly clear, Trump and his henchmen were not actually interested in any investigation: they merely sought an announcement of an investigation in order to smear a political opponent.
        
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        November 22, 2019 1:06pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        It’s all interpretation. If you read the call transcript, it is pretty clear to me that Trump is asking for investigations into 2016 related election fraud and corruption – which we know that the Ukraine was indulging in. Yes, we do know, they’ve even apologized for it !
        
        Other people quite clearly see that Trump was being purely personal, and as they are such psychological experts, they just KNOW that he was trying to get an investigation announced in Joe Biden to knock him out of the race.
        
        Meh, Biden’s toast anyway, and if you supported Manafort being indicted and jailed for his (2012 era) peculations then you surely should support an open investigation into Hunter and Joe Biden’s dealings in the Ukraine and China. It is even likely that Joe jumped into the race because he was under threat of investigation and he saw his participation as a means to deflect. He’ll stage a health scare in the next 2-3 months and pull out, he isn’t up to the job.
        
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        November 22, 2019 2:26pm
      - IC5000
        
        > Trump has said openly that he never pushed a quid pro quo.
        
        During a criminal trial the offender, unless they plead guilty, usually denies the offence. What did you expect him to say FFS?
        
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        November 22, 2019 8:31pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        The evidence of what Trump said was from an independent witness
        You really are quite stupid arent you
        And such anger and bitterness
        You ok?
        
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        November 22, 2019 10:37pm
  - Batman
    
    Trump is playing the Christian angle because he has become a hero of the Christian right for being anti-abortion and pro-discrimination.
    
    He continues to do it because he loves and craves the adulation, along with a room full of people praying for him. The ultimate ego boost for a narcissist.
    
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    November 22, 2019 11:19am
    - Billy Collins
      
      That may be the case. Not impeachable though, is it?
      
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      November 22, 2019 12:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It would be interesting if congress were able to view his abortion records along with his tax returns (perhaps his tax returns would show his abortion expenses as a deductible).
      
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      November 22, 2019 1:08pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Mostly with you, Trump is wholey unlikable as a person (an opinion I’ve helfd of him as long as I’ve known of him). But is he being effective? In some ways yes (foreign policy mostly good in my view). But his economic tax-cut gamble – the most important area of policy – is a failure. 1.2Trillion deficits in good times is insane.
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:51pm
  - Jigsaw
    
    That’s the point- why do you HAVE to like him? Did you like Obama? Clinton? Nixon? Muldoon?
    
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    November 23, 2019 3:53pm
- IC5000
  
  If it was anyone else who had done the stuff that Trump had done you’d be describing them as human scum.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:21am
  - Billy Collins
    
    What has he done?
    
    Telling his advisors and other to go through his personal lawyer is inappropriate and raises question. That’s about all Trump has done.
    
    So far, all you guys can prove is that he does inappropriate things that raise questions, which isn’t impeachable. You need to give answers to those questions with solid proof. Do that, and I’ll be on your side. As I said, Trump is making rational people deranged. Here you are attacking me for simply standing up for the presumption of innocence.
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:07pm
    - IC5000
      
      > What has he done?
      
      From above
      
      “Serial adulterer and sexual assailant, multiple failures in business, irreligious, racist, an authoritarian and admirer of authoritarians, profoundly ignorant of the world, and deeply corrupt“
      
      Someone needs to take out the trash and thankfully Adam Schiff is on point to do so.
      
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      November 22, 2019 1:02pm
- GoVege
  
  Trump a “family man”?
  He’s ditched two mothers of his children and betrayed all of them, including the stunning Melania.
  
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  November 22, 2019 11:21am
- Michael
  
  Scott
  That Jacinda is happy to be photographed in a hajib hugging Muslim women doesn’t help or send the correct message to the dozens of Irabnina and Saudi women in Jail for refusing to wear the “hateful” to them Hajib.
  https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15082/iran-crimes-against-humanity
  
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  November 23, 2019 4:13am
DigNap15

Climate Change Now
Is an evil organization that Stuff signed up to.
They told its members (170 world wide) to ban all climate change deniers, and even suggested that they insert climate climate change messages into non climate change articles!
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November 22, 2019 8:06am
- emmess
  
  Climate Change Now, eh?
  The name suggests it would almost be desperately wanting extreme climate change to be occurring. I wonder why that would be?
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:17am
- JackRabbit
  
  The real climate change deniers are the MMCCP (man made climate change proponents) ones who do not acknowledge that the climate is always changing and that it has been much hotter and much colder that it is now, even in the last few hundred years and indeed even in the last 100 years, all without modern man being involved.
  
  https://realclimatescience.com/1500-years-of-heatwaves/
  
  The MMCCP do not deal in specifics, so the only way to catch them out in general conversation is ask them to prove what they are saying without simply parroting populist writings. Get them to prove their understanding, or lack of, on the basis of science.
  
  Ask them to explain the many heatwaves over the last 1500 years, all mostly before man had cars, air conditioning, gas fires, and electric lights.
  
  Like religious fanatics, they are adept at quoting, but show no understanding.
  
  And, the Extinction Rebellion is not about climate change, just a bunch of people complaining about the system with no real specifics. It is always about everyone else being “sinners” that need to “repent and change”, and never about their individual actions.
  
  This “lynch mob” mentality and persecution has existed throughout the history of mankind and is symptomatic of immaturity. The German with the bad haircut had a nation convinced that Germany’s woes were in part due to the evil Jews, and that eradicating the Jews would solve everything. And then it was the evil English, and traitorous and evil French resistance.
  
  The real evil the German with the bad haircut could not eradicate, was within himself.
  
  The real key to Mobs, is who is behind them, and funding them. It is no secret that certain powerful money groups helped the German to power. War always has costs, and groups that benefit financially. What is staggering is that these groups are also benefiting out of modern day war, “Climate Change”, and changes being bought about by the pressure of the Extinction Rebellion.
  
  The MMCCP and Extinction Rebellion et all, are what power mongers refer to as “Useful Idiots.”
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:44am
  - stephieboy
    
    Yes there is this lunatic fringe element the Extinction Rebellion but climate change denial is the real lunatic fringe !
    
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/4/20/15295822/alex-jones-fans-climate-change-vaccines-science
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:38am
    - JackRabbit
      
      As I said.
      
      As a religious zealot, you cannot answer anything from your own understanding, only cut and paste.
      
      Have you answered my earlier question on an earlier thread, and explain why, from your own understanding, the glacier ice on Mt Kilimanjaro is only 11,500 years old? This is long before planes, trains, automobiles and vaping, and long before modern man.
      
      The real climate change deniers are the MMCCP (Man Made Climate Change Proponents) – those who do not acknowledge that the climate is always changing, with or without man, and that it has been much hotter and much colder that it is now.
      
      You do not acknowledge that the climate is always changing. You are a climate change denier!
      
      You, by logical association, are part of the real lunatic fringe. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Take the Red Pill and wake up.
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:05am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And while I am at it. Someone’s opinion piece is exactly that: An opinion piece. Often quite different from specific facts.
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:09am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Can you prove where the climate will be in 50 years time?
      Can you deny the UNIPCC’s Third Assessment Report when the stated that they cannot predict the climate-it being a chaotic system. Politics rules the UN not science.
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:19am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “they cannot predict the climate-it being a chaotic system.” So true.
        
        Only in Donald Duck comics (Gyro Gearloose), and Road Runner cartoons (Willy E Coyote), and in the mad incantations of Climate Change proponents, is science is ignored in order to make a good story.
        
        Baselines:
        Any good science starts with establishing a baseline. Climate baselines start with establishing the existing celestial patterns, where the climate is cyclically changing according to the input of nature, the sun, other planets, and forces from our galaxy through the ether.
        
        The scientific method:
        The scientific method was founded on inductive thinking and analysis, as pioneered by Sir Francis Bacon. Part of this, ALL inputs have to be considered and integrated, not just the populist ones.
        
        Orders of Magnitude:
        As a quick 10 minute analysis before any real investigative work is done, anyone with an IQ over 110 and who went to high school and didn’t cheat on their exams, or cram learn, would have to come to the stark conclusion that any man made factors (if at all) are probably not from humans breathing, cows farting or even industry.
        
        From an order of magnitude point of view what would have / be causing the most damage would be:
        1) The 1000+ nuclear weapons detonated in the upper atmosphere by the USA and USSR from the early 1960’s through to a few years ago. Read up on Starfish Prime. Disrupts and tears holes in the the upper layers. Government not public.
        
        2) The use of High Frequency Active Auroral Research Programs, commonly called ionosphere heaters and weather modifiers that pump Gigawatts of energy into the upper atmosphere.
        
        These disrupt and tear holes in the upper layers causing long term weather change and creating holes in the ozone layer. This is based on the work on Nikola Tesla and has been being played with for over a century. Government not public.
        
        3) The prohibited use of Directed Energy Weapons testing. Government not public.
        
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        November 22, 2019 12:40pm
    - stephieboy
      
      The evidence for man-made climate change . Similarscinetific correlations linking smoking with lung cancer.
      
      The research falls into nine independently studied, but physically related, lines of evidence:”
      
      1 Simple chemistry – when we burn carbon-based materials, carbon dioxide (CO2) is emitted (research beginning in 1900s)
      
      2 Basic accounting of what we burn, and therefore how much CO2 we emit (data collection beginning in 1970s)
      
      3. Measuring CO2 in the atmosphere and trapped in ice to find that it’s increasing, with levels higher than anything we’ve seen in hundreds of thousands of years (measurements beginning in 1950s)
      
      4.Chemical analysis of the atmospheric CO2 that reveals the increase is coming from burning fossil fuels (research beginning in 1950s)
      
      5.Basic physics that shows us that CO2 absorbs heat (research beginning in 1820s)
      
      6.Monitoring climate conditions to find that recent warming of the Earth is correlated to and follows rising CO2 emissions (research beginning in 1930s)
      
      7.Ruling out natural factors that can influence climate like the sun and ocean cycles (research beginning in 1830s)
      
      8.Employing computer models to run experiments of natural versus human-influenced simulations of Earth (research beginning in 1960s)
      
      9.Consensus among scientists who consider all previous lines of evidence and make their own conclusions (polling beginning in 1990s)
      
      https://www.edf.org/climate/9-ways-we-know-humans-triggered-climate-change
      
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      November 22, 2019 1:08pm
      - alloytoo
        
        6 is wrong, Co2 follows temperature change.
        
        8. Computer models run consistently hot and think the earth is flat.
        
        9. Argumentum Ad Populum (no doubt adopted from the young earth creationists)
        
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        November 22, 2019 4:03pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @stephieboy
        
        Most of this is opinion and statements designed to be fact. But saying it is so does not make it that way.
        
        Lets deal with one specific:
        
        Answer my earlier question on an earlier thread, and explain why, from your own understanding, the glacier ice on Mt Kilimanjaro is only 11,500 years old? This is long before planes, trains, automobiles and vaping, and long before modern man.
        
        This specific fact (among thousands) does not support the MMCCP mantra.
        
        Specifics please.
        
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        November 22, 2019 6:16pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Jack
        Stephie will runaway and won’t answer.
        Because;
        He’s stupid
        And he’s a coward
        He’s much more comfortable stalking women than having a debate.
        
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        November 22, 2019 6:54pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        1. So what?
        2. What does 2 even mean?
        3. What about for 540 Million years. CO2 is the lowest its been for much of that. 100,000 years is just one Milankovitch cycle…
        4. Can’t prove that, but it is assumed so. No one has measured the outgassing from the oceans.
        5. This is an over simplification of the process. http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=1169
        6.CO2 always follows temperature or is mostly uncorrelated for much of the last 540 mil years.
        7. Recent understandings of cosmic radiation effects on the stratosphere and cloud nucleation negate this point.
        8. the computer models are crap. https://www.therightclimatestuff.com/
        9. Consensus arguments have no authority in science. Ask Galileo
        
        You really need to do some research is this area if you are going to try and argue coherently. Understanding what you cut and paste also helps. Now run back to primary school and learn some science.
        
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        November 22, 2019 9:09pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @All_on_Red
        
        >>>Stephie will runaway and won’t answer.
        
        Yes, I know. I never expected an answer, because he can’t answer without destroying his argument.
        
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        November 22, 2019 11:48pm
- Inandout
  
  Which is exactly why Stuff is unsaleable, no investor will touch them.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:41am
Maggie Pie

What i find sooo incredible, is that we have not heard a dickybird from Golriz Gharahman about what is going on in her OWN home-town!

GO FIGURE 🙁

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1197573996960727041
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November 22, 2019 8:08am
- Fletch
  
  Have you availed yourself of the Krispy Kreme ~~Kristmas~~ Christmas range yet? ?
  
  14 1
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  November 22, 2019 8:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yep – we had UberEats deilver the Krispymas Dozen last weekend as a matter of fact. Absolutely DELISH 😛
    
    You a fan as well Fletch?
    
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    November 22, 2019 8:38am
    - MrTips
      
      The end game
      
      3 0
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      November 22, 2019 9:16am
    - Biscuit
      
      Krispy Kremes are those things with that sickly fake cream in them, right?
      
      There’s more chance of me becoming a mother than putting one of them down my throat!
      
      But each to their own … the more that you two scoff, the less there’ll be to assault my eyeballs.
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:22am
      - IC5000
        
        Yeah, it’s disgusting how the weak willed abuse their bodies with garbage Food and then expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab when they have health problems. Parasites.
        
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        November 22, 2019 12:20pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      One of our Auckland based staff brought a box of the KK Christmas indulgence down to a meeting we had this week. Bloody tasty they were, but not good for the waistline…
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:50am
    - Fletch
      
      Not really a fan. Our local BP has one of those built-in KK things and I pick one up occasionally. I don’t think they carry the whole range though, just generic ones. KK were advertising the Christmas range on Facebook though.
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:50am
- freethinker
  
  Iran is slowly imploding with the hike in Petrol prices and the protests in almost every major Iranian city, the Arsotollas are running out of cash and soon they will running out of Iran.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:02am
- Michael
  
  It is worse than you think Maggie.
  All the greens and Labour feminists are silent on their sisters around the world being jailed, raped, tortured for not wearing the Hajib they despise.
  
  https://www.melaniephillips.com/heroism-iranian-people-shrugged-europe/
  
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  November 23, 2019 4:15am
oldpark

Doing the rounds in NZ yesterday was a rumour that a Hollywood Movie Company was looking to make another movie adding to the sequence . It will be called The God Father #4. It will be along the same lines like Godfather 1,2,3. This time it will be about an un-named NZ Political Party .
Because there will be too many good/bad actors in the movie they will play themselves.
Not much more to say about the rumour at this time ,except some say the opening line will be something like this.
“Friends, countrymen, lend me your ears or is it fears” or words to that affect.
Sadly dont get too excited always remember bullshit baffles brains. Dead horses tell no tales.
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November 22, 2019 8:10am
- oldpark
  
  Also thought for today 22 11 2019 .
  “Thieves scream the loudest when caught or exposed”. Nuff Said.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:04am
  - IC5000
    
    > Nuff Said.
    
    Correct. Its good to check out Trump’s twitter for a reaction during the Ukraine investigation to determine if the testimony is on point.
    
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    November 22, 2019 8:33pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Would there be a scene when Winston Peters comes in and finds half a dead racehorse in his bed?
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:51am
  - oldpark
    
    Don’t you mean his “neighsayers”.Ouch! or is it Arrrrrrragh !
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:16am
JibberJabber

Thomas Sowell

What do you call it when someone takes someone else’s money openly by force? Robbery. What do you call it when a politician takes someone else’s money in taxes and gives it to someone who is more likely to vote for him? Social Justice.
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November 22, 2019 8:11am
- hullkiwi
  
  …and when a Party says they advocate social justice, socialism & redistribution – they are described as being “Progressive”.
  
  Go figure?
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:22am
- pb
  
  The most expensive thing you will ever buy?
  
  Your government.
  
  No refunds either.
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:54pm
Yvette

Ardern supporting Winston? –
Ms Ardern said it was not her role to investigate other political parties, that should be left to the likes of the Electoral Commission, police or the Serious Fraud Office … “The whole point of having these independent agencies is that we allow them to do their job.”

But one assumes Ardern is still awaiting the Maria Dew QC inquiry into the substance of the Labour sex assault complaints.

And Winston supporting Ardern? –
“Allegations”, “unfounded fiction”, an “orgy of speculation”, and “innuendo”, “led by a woman called Paula Bennett”, or a serious case of sexual assault or rape.

It is about time this mess is sorted.
If just to avoid a log-jam of delivery – sex assault complaints, Ihumātoa, New Zealand First, child poverty
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November 22, 2019 8:14am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Jacinda’s told us plenty about what her job isn’t.
  
  Wonder what she thinks it is, and when she’s going to start doing it?
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:28am
- Raphael
  
  NZ First is the Mos Eisley of NZ politics
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “wretched hive of scum and villainy.”
    
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    November 22, 2019 1:10pm
- dave_c_
  
  No doubt there will be a one inch column in the news, indicating ‘nothing to see here’, delivered whilst everyone is enjoying the festive period, and no one will notice.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:34am
- JackRabbit
  
  >>Ms Ardern said it was not her role to investigate other political parties, that should be left to the likes of the Electoral Commission, police or the Serious Fraud Office … “The whole point of having these independent agencies is that we allow them to do their job.”
  
  Translated:
  
  “It is not my job to know the difference between right and wrong. It is not my job to take action when crimes are being committed on my watch and within my hierarchy.
  
  I hold the highest office in the land that governs right and wrong, but I will not initiate any form of police or judicial action against corruption in government, at least not while I am in power. It does not serve my power base to be humble or honest, and root out corruption. My corrupt support base serve me well, so I have to protect them
  
  I reserve such action, whining or protesting to when I am in opposition, in order to jealously discredit those in power.”
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:56am
- freethinker
  
  Matthew Hooten quoting from the Cabinet Manual clearly showed that the PM is responsible for all her ministers actions officially or privately, clearly ardern hasn’t read or understood the manual!
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:06am
  - tf78
    
    Jacinda and Shane could read it over the holidays.
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:41am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ardern would not be capable of reading anything other than the cover.
    
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    November 22, 2019 11:25am
    - sooty
      
      She could draw pretty pictures with her crayons!
      
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      November 22, 2019 3:42pm
Jack5

Have we New Zealanders become such lackeys of Beijing we don’t give a rat’s arse about young Hong Kong folk trapped by the police in a polytechnic-university?

What’s happened to us? Don’t we care about youngsters protesting for their democratic rights? Or only about those who follow the Swedish Green child-god?

Meanwhile, this is an example from the South China Morning Post on how China’s media is reporting the Hong Kong troubles:

Mainstream Chinese social media commentary has become more hardline as the protest violence has escalated, with users routinely calling protesters “thugs” and “cockroaches”.

State media has also amped sic up its rhetoric against the pro-democracy protests. Hu Xijin, Global Times’ editor-in-chief, condemned the attack against Lee and likened protesters to the terrorist group Islamic State.

And Reuters reports:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hongkong-protests/too-scared-to-escape-isolated-protesters-hold-out-on-trashed-hong-kong-campus-idUKKBN1XV0DY
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November 22, 2019 8:18am
- hullkiwi
  
  Overnight it was reported that 12 year Hong Kong boy was picked up on his way to school. The boy has been tried & prosecuted for criminal damage for his part in the protests. The claims are he admitted his guilt to damaging public property, that is spray painting slogans outside a police station and a metro station.
  
  Interesting double standard, because I’ve seen graffiti in Hong Kong, & the police have never seemed bothered before!
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:30am
- dave_c_
  
  Indeed – I doubt that if this oppresion was being (and may be one day, not too far away) dished to Nz’ers, that anyone will care, let alone stand up against it.
  Full credit for those in HK, prepared to do stand up for freedom from communist rule.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:38am
  - GazzaW
    
    I believe that over 10,000 Hong Kong residents have taken out NZ citizenship since 1997 and it will be interesting to see how we absorb them into our infrastructure should the shit really hit the fan and they decide to relocate to NZ. Canada, Australia and the UK face a similar problem.
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:04am
    - freethinker
      
      Not sure that is a problem as I suspect those leaving will be the cream of Hong Kong with knowledge, ambition, work ethic and capital so badly needed in many western countries.
      
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      November 22, 2019 10:09am
      - alloytoo
        
        And they probably have houses in Auckland already. 🙂
        
        4 0
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        November 22, 2019 4:07pm
- Lance
  
  Because setting light to people you are talking to is sooooooooooooooo going to win support?
  The extreme elements are completely out of control and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain it is all going to end badly.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:16am
- Justitia
  
  Our two main political parties and much of our establishment were bought by Beijing some time back. They are probably waiting for the latest CCP drafted talking points to be sent over from the Chinese Embassy.
  
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  November 22, 2019 11:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  When students take to bomb making at their university they can expect reprisals. Anarchists with weapons cannot be tolerated.
  
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  November 22, 2019 11:28am
  - IC5000
    
    Good to know you are aligned with a communist regime that kills and torture political opponents then harvests their body organs for commercial gain and runs concentration camps.
    
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    November 22, 2019 1:05pm
  - Jack5
    
    Kevin: Anarchists? Were the Tiananmen Square victims anarchists?
    
    The Hong Kong demonstrators are clinging to the taste of democracy that their region held. What options do they have? Can they flee abroad? How?
    
    Consider on the one hand the sympathy many have for millions of Africans and Middle Easterners intent on crashing through Western national borders.
    
    Contrast this with, on the other hand, the cold disregard many in the West hold for young Hong Kong people fighting to retain a democratic life style in Hong Kong.
    
    Couldn’t New Zealand seek negotiated exit of some of these young people from Hong Kong in place of some of the rich communists we allow in from “mainland” China?
    
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    November 22, 2019 3:18pm
    - Justitia
      
      Great idea Jack5.
      
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      November 22, 2019 3:46pm
    - Jack5
      
      For anyone who finds it hard to understand what the Hong Kong student protesters fear about China’s government, consider the fate of Dr Shuping Wang:
      
      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49834904
      
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      November 22, 2019 3:54pm
- MCos
  
  Here’s a chap who, I’m sure, is giving the Chinese the hard word.
  http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/16/c_138476844.htm
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:24pm
tedbear

There’s been a breakthrough in controlling the weather in NZ.
According to One News weather presenter, we can now import heat from Australia.
I fully expect we’ll soon be able to import sufficient wind to make all windfarm turbines produce maximum electricity 24/7 and ditto for solar panel farms.
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November 22, 2019 8:21am
Tony Stuart

From Page 29 of the Cabinet Manual:

Conduct of Ministers
2.55 A Minister of the Crown, while holding a ministerial warrant, acts in a number of different capacities:

(a) in a ministerial capacity, making decisions and determining and promoting policy
within particular portfolios;
(b) in a political capacity as a member of Parliament, representing a constituency or
particular community of interest; and
(c) in a personal capacity.

2.56 In all these roles and at all times, Ministers are expected to act lawfully and to behave in a way that upholds, and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards. This includes exercising a professional approach and good judgement in their interactions with the public and officials, and in all their communications, personal and professional.
Ultimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour.

https://dpmc.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2017-06/cabinet-manual-2017.pdf

Jacinda Ardern can’t excuse or overlook Peters’ behaviour because he comes from another political party. The buck stops with her, as Prime Minister. Peters serves entirely at her pleasure.

If Ms Ardern wants to shy away from making the tough decisions, she should stand aside as Prime Minister.

UPDATE: On the same basis, she should again be speaking to Shane Jones, who appears to have again breached the Cabinet Manual:

At a meeting in Finance Minister Grant Robertson’s office last week with POAL CEO, Jones said: “My advice to you as a chief executive is do not put your head in a political noose.”

Jones confirmed his comments in an interview with Newsroom. He said his words were meant as a warning to the CEO not to enter the “political fray” of the ports debate.

Others at the meeting told Newsroom Jones boasted that both he and Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters were top political operators and ports CEO Tony Gibson would be making a mistake if he decided to take them on.

Jones said his warnings that the decision to move the port was “as much about politics as it is about economics”. Newsroom spoke to Jones after hearing of the heated meeting from sources within the Government.

“Don’t fudge any words, the leaks that you’ve been given are a reflection of the warning that I gave.”

Jones said now that discussions around the meeting had leaked he considered Gibson a “political combatant”.

“Now I will deal with him, in the time before the election, in a very political way. I love that, that’s the sport I’m paid to engage in.”

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/21/913309/jones-lays-political-noose-threat-on-ports-ceo
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November 22, 2019 8:23am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, I heard Matt Hooton on the radio about it yesterday. It is amazing how the Labour party are dismissing the requirements of the cabinet manual. Yet their own legal advisors and an academic constitutional lawyer are of a different opinion.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:34am
- srylands
  
  Is it not reasonable for the CEO of the Auckland port company to participate in public debate on moving the port? ? I would like to hear his views.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:45am
  - rockape
    
    Good article on this subject here. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=122870
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:14am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Apparently his views are not wanted when:
    1. He points out the errors and omissions in work done favouring moving the port; and
    2
    His stance is diametrically opposite the prevailing views of NZF and people from Northland.
    
    Strange that….
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:42am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Interesting too that the Northport option is only 12th on a list of 14 possible replacement sites for the Port of Auckland.
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:52am
- Straight arrow
  
  First, I agree Peters should at least be stood down. The following is not a defence of PM or Peters actions, but people have been saying PM “consitutionally has to”, which is, in my opinion, not correct. It would apply if Bridges was PM.
  
  The Cabinet Manual (CM) has NO constitutional authority. I also listened to Hooten yesterday, but as we don’t know context in which he asked his experts how the CM is part of constitution I am a bit dubious of their conclusions. The CM claims it is the “primary source”, but it is not: Statutes (eg Constitution Act etc), Court decisions, and prerogative powers of the Queen. The CM consolidates AND adds “guidance” (as both NZ and UK versions regularly state) for ministers and civil servants.
  
  The Cabinet is not a formal (though it is powerful) institution. As the CM itself says:
  “The decisions often take a legal form that departs from the practical and conventional reality; the
  decision taken in fact by Cabinet has then to be taken, as a MATTER OF LAW, by the Governor-General in Council, the Governor-General or a Minister, as the law requires; or the Bill passed by the House through all its readings has to be assented to by the Governor-General to become law. The Cabinet, essentially a body established by convention, has NO LEGAL POWER; and the House acting alone has very limited powers to take decisions with full legal effect.”
  Note that power resides, generally, with ministers individually, or with GG in Council, not Cabinet.
  
  It also follows, that if Cabinet has no “legal” power, then CM has no legal standing. That is not to say the individual items within the CM have no standing, it is just that the authority behind the item comes from the original source, eg a statute.
  
  Apart from CM self-proclaiming itself to be part of Constitution, I have not come across any other authority which says it is. In fact, the UK version (which is based on NZ version) states: ” It is not intended to be legally binding or to set issues in stone. The Cabinet Manual records rules and practices, but is not intended to be the source of any rule. ”
  
  While ministers are responsible for all actions (as a naughty child is), they are accountable (have to explain) to PM (parent). Even if you accept the CM has constitutional validity, the CM does NOT state what a PM has to do. No peice of ANY statute says a PM HAS to do something. It does NOT state anywhere that a PM has “responsibility” for a minister’s actions. Law is clear, a PM alone has right to hire/fire, and never has to explain.
  
  Now to part that hopefully people will agree with me…
  That is not to say a PM does not have an ETHICAL obligation to uphold reputation of the government. A PM’s power comes from support of her party, party, and the House, but ultimately from the people. If allegations are substatiated, and she has done nothing, then that is responsibility of voters. Of course, before then her party’s caucas could chuck her out as a political liability.
  
  Coming back to ministerial responsibility: as refered above, ministers have constitutional responsibilites (as stated in statutes). That is basis of convention that ministers resign. That is why so many ministers resign, rather than are fired. Peters should at minimum take the step himself of standing down in official roles.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:40am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Well said Straight Arrow. Ms Ardern’s ethics, or the lack thereof, are front and centre of this mess.
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:54am
    - Straight arrow
      
      Thanks. The clincher, for me, that Hooten is wrong (and I have no beef with him in general) is that IF it is a constitutional requirement (not optional), and given the House has no power/authority to do anything (PM has sole discretion to fire/hire), then it must follow that either courts (dubious) or the governor-general must intervene. The fact that they haven’t indicates that there are multiple constitutional law opinions about, and the ones that count (governments/courts/governor’s-general advisors) say it is not.
      It should be an ethical decision, but Ardern has made it on political grounds.
      
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      November 22, 2019 4:48pm
- Ruahine
  
  ethics wots ethics
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:52am
- freethinker
  
  Thanks Tony for confirming Matthew Hootens interview in which he explained this, wonder if ardern understands her responsibility NOW?
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Unfortunately the Cabinet Manual is only authoritative in its context, not law.
  
  The people through the ballot box are the only ones that can check our politicians except those overtly criminal. If the PM can’t take responsibility why is she paid so much?
  
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  November 22, 2019 11:31am
Gandolfo

I read in the press that Brian Henry has threatened to sue two National Members of Parliament. I would hope the Law Society Disciplinary committee hauls him in for a chat. This is a no-no for a member of the Bar to threaten anyone publicly.
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November 22, 2019 8:23am
- yossarian
  
  On a side note, did I hear right that Henry is also Cam Slater’s lawyer?
  
  The whole ‘vote for Winston to teach National a lesson’ totally makes sense now. Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:00am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Brian Henry has acted for Cameron Slater in his recent Court cases…. but he wants out.
    
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/07/18/687813/lawyer-let-me-off-whaleoil-case
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:57am
    - Lizziep
      
      Isn’t he a just a rat for wanting to desert a sinking ship with Cameron Slater when he is so involved with NZ First and Winestone? Cameron was all for NZ1st at election time, to ‘Keep National honest” now he is failing in health etc the Lawyer wants out???? Interesting. Perhaps the WO chief may be regretting his past support. As they are not of a type to keep anyone honest especially themselves.
      
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      November 22, 2019 10:38am
  - Bell-47
    
    You are right on the button yossarian. That is, IMHO exactly what went on. And also, IMHO I would add Hooton was donkey deep in that given his 10k donation to NZF. What is of most concern is that Slaters sheeple bought the line and voted for NZF all the while knowing Winston’s hatred for National? What an earth did the sheeple think would happen especially given the likelihood NZF would once again be king maker?
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:39am
- JackRabbit
  
  If Peters was found guilty of the crimes, then by inference, these threats could be treated as blackmail under the crimes act. A threat of loss, in order to prevent an action, or make an action occur.
  
  It’s a mute point because the police would never pursue Peters, but there have been court cases where action has been taken in similar circumstances.
  
  Peters is just a school yard bully. In ancient Maori justice, if he wasn’t the Chief, and he was caught stealing and acting underhandedly, his head would be on a stick for all to see, as a warning.
  
  His body would not be allowed to be eaten, regardless of how much the tribe needed fresh meat, because his flesh would be considered to be poisoned by his ideas. The eating of the flesh could therefore infect others with that same poisoned thinking.
  
  Although not always fair, ancient Maori justice was swift and brutal.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:10am
- Nookin
  
  I would hope the Law Society Disciplinary committee hauls him in for a chat. This is a no-no for a member of the Bar to threaten anyone publicly.
  
  I am not sure whether he did so publicly. My understanding is that the communicated directly with Nick Smith who tabled the threat in Parliament.
  Having said that, particularly bearing in mind comments attributed to Mr Henry at a pre-election candidates meeting (where he referred to himself as “the dark shadow”) one has to question his motivation in making that threat, knowing that he cannot take action against a parliamentarian for comments made in Parliament. It is easy to draw the inference that the message was intimidatory only (and in Dr Smith’s case, seems to have worked)
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:10am
  - Yvette
    
    The Brian Henry letter, threatening to sue National leader Simon Bridges and senior MP Nick Smith, was tabled in Parliament yesterday by Nick Smith, but a short paragraph is redacted.
    
    That portion is revealed on the BFD website (which replaces “WhaleOil”) and cites ex-NZF President Lester Gray as being the source of RNZ’s Espiner, but also discredits Lester Gray.
    
    (If Smith did not redact a portion of the letter, which he perhaps could not verify, would he mislead Parliament, or would that onus fall on Henry, although, as Nookin points out, he did not address his letter to Parliament – and so the public as happened – but to a Member?)
    
    Some of the BFD reader comments are interesting –
    
    Comment – Wouldn’t Henry and Peters just love to get this to a court where they could then claim sub judice and silence all further comments
    
    Comment – Henry’s apparently lost a major contract with the United States as a result of claims by the MPs that there’s been an electoral loan scam by the party.
    
    Comment – I find it hard to believe that Henry lost a significant contract because of these comments. They were only made in the last few days, and I doubt that an American company would pay much attention anyway. The contract was probably lost for other reasons, but it looks good to blame Smith and Bridges.
    
    Comment – So why isn’t he suing Espiner? Seems that would be an easy target!
    
    Comment – If there was any untruth, why then would they not go to Espiner, the original source and correct the record and correct the record. They probably can’t which is why they are acting to try and suppress questions in parliament.
    
    Comment – Do you realise Mr Henry is Cam’s [Cameron Slater] lawyer?
    So several other comments then wonder if a “favourable” article is a favour.
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:08am
    - Random T Person
      
      Yes I was interested to see the smears of Lester Gray coming out through hints and innuendo. Attack the source. Tried and tested WhaleOil policy.
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:08am
    - Bell-47
      
      More comments below. Seems the bias on display is being called out..
      
      Comment:
      “This a substandard article, weirdly sympathetic. NZ First, Peters and his lawyers are rather unpleasant, litigious, people with no respect for anybody. Indeed NZ First and its officers exhibit a bullying culture. All that is going wrong for Winston is self inflicted. It is nothing to do with the National Party. NZ First will be electoral trash in 2020.”
      
      Comment:
      “Feeling the same. My question would be why? The silence about this has been puzzling and I am now feeling uncomfortable about what could be the reason. The anti National stance is again coming to the fore. Whether NZFirst are guilty of anything will be determined by the Electoral Office. This article comes across as a poor excuse written as a favour for a friend.”
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:16am
    - Bell-47
      
      Also, and interestingly, its seems Mr Henry is now outing Lester Gray as a sex pest. This seems to be a familiar tactic when someone has dirt on you and knows where the bodies are buried. As demonstrated by the democrats when Kavanaugh was being portrayed as a sex pest by all manner of hired actors. I hope Gray fires back if untrue.
      
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      November 22, 2019 11:44am
      - Random T Person
        
        If this isn’t true, it is going to stick in Lester Gray’s craw big time. LG very much positions himself as a family man/god guy/moral dude….
        
        5 0
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        November 22, 2019 2:41pm
    - mark15
      
      That last comment’s disappeared…
      
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      November 22, 2019 9:14pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Yeah, the truth must be close to being exposed. They don’t like it up ‘em.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:14am
- freethinker
  
  The Law Society – what a joke less teeth than a jellyfish and the same integrity as peters – read their decisions and also consider the 600+ complaints still waiting decisions plus those with the LRCW.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:14am
stinkypete

when winston said he was a champion of the little man i now realize he mean’t jockeys
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November 22, 2019 8:27am
- geoff3012
  
  Or drunken dwarfs.
  
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  November 22, 2019 8:42am
  - MrTips
    
    I wonder if Mitchell oversaw an event throwing Peters or Mark?
    
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    November 22, 2019 9:17am
  - freethinker
    
    Is Winston pals with Junker?
    
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    November 22, 2019 10:14am
mikenmildagain

Today’s the day to celebrate St Cecilia, patroness of musicians.

She has an interesting story. Despite her vow of virginity, she was forced by her parents to marry a pagan nobleman, Valerian. During the wedding, Cecilia sat apart singing to God in her heart.

When the marriage was to be consummated, said an angel of the Lord would punish Valerian if he sexually violated her

Valerian converted and was martyred shortly after. Cecilia was next.Although struck three times on the neck with a sword, she lived for three days, and asked the pope to convert her home into a church.
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November 22, 2019 8:37am
- SGA
  
  Handal wrote a rather lovely cantata (if you are into such things) to celebrate the day called, not surprisingly, “Ode to St Cecilia’s Day.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiH9CjMHOk4
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:19am
srylands

I just heard Willie Jackson on the wireless saying that the SFO was investigating the National Party over breaches of electoral finance law. Must be true.
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November 22, 2019 8:41am
- stigie
  
  Yes and the SFO will soon be investigating the obfuscating and corrupt NZF..?
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:25am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I think SFO investigation of Nats started during JLR meltdown last year.
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:57pm
- Jack5
  
  Wily Willie will be on the job.
  
  How on earth did National, during its term in Government, let Wily Willie Jackson successfully stage a coup that Maorified Radio NZ?
  
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  November 22, 2019 2:03pm
Random T Person

Anyone noticed the fawning BFD articles backing Winston and Brian Henry to the hilt? Laughable – and the BFD’s own readership isn’t having it.
Also, the articles are so obviously written by the invalid Cam Slater. What a joke – I do get my jollies watching the sad spectacle, I must admit.
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November 22, 2019 8:58am
- rockape
  
  Yes I also notice Henry was Slaters lawyer. Funny that, as Slater paid the bill or is Henry getting paid in publicity?
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:48am
- Poppa
  
  Yes the demise of that blog is quite sad really, it is a shadow of its former self
  
  The content is not worth reading anymore quite frankly
  
  I feel much better about getting banned now, even though I have no idea why
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:57am
  - Random T Person
    
    Not sad at all. Slater is/was a massive hypocrite, shameless braggart and a proven malingerer, malingering again. He is getting what was coming to him.
    
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    November 22, 2019 11:09am
    - IC5000
      
      If he really was getting what was coming to him he would have taken several dozen blows to the face and groin during that boxing match.
      
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      November 22, 2019 12:11pm
      - Random T Person
        
        Nobody enjoys a slow burn quite as much as Cameron Slater does.
        
        3 1
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        November 22, 2019 12:45pm
curry4me

The Democrats want more reasonable candidates. Not too young, too old, or too socialist. Blomberg is a moderate alternative to Biden. However, late entrants never win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLWXmkXZUk
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November 22, 2019 9:04am
- freethinker
  
  Bloomberg looks much older the Donald.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:16am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Bloomberg ~~looks~~ (77) is much older than Donald, would be 78 at start of term if elected.
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:59pm
  - curry4me
    
    Yes, he does. Coming in this late, he has no chance.
    
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    November 22, 2019 6:54pm
curry4me

UK Labour’s manifesto is out. Lots of free stuff. Votes for 16 yeqar olds, and residents of the UK. Minimum wage of 10 pounds an hour. A tax on second homes, and 150,000 new council and social houses per year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhpKib9l98
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November 22, 2019 9:07am
- freethinker
  
  150,000 new council and social houses per year. – Will Corbin appoint our Phil to run it after all he has experience of massive failures?
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:18am
  - curry4me
    
    They’ll probably have a home grown incompetent for that role.
    
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    November 22, 2019 6:55pm
- mandk
  
  In the interests of solidarity between the comrades Lab NZ should offer Twyford to Lab UK as a housing policy advisor.
  
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  November 22, 2019 6:35pm
Hard Cheese

Great. So now Amazon (US, UK, Germany and probably all of them) have stopped shipping to New Zealand because of the GST changes. Well done Labour you bunch of fucking donkeys. You saw what happened in Australia a year ago, what in your tiny brains made you think Amazon wouldn’t do the same thing to New Zealand? Not only will the GST change now net ZERO revenue from Amazon, we lose access to one of (if not the) worlds largest retailers.

This country is going in one direction – backwards.
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November 22, 2019 9:09am
Maggie Pie

My partner went to donate blood yesterday, but he said they kept asking too many questions for his liking. “Who’s blood is this? Where did you get it?”
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November 22, 2019 9:13am
- chaos
  
  How rude, should be grateful to get it, or did he still have blood dripping from his fangs?
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:44am
- RightNow
  
  Sounds a lot like a joke I heard about a woman donating at the sperm bank.
  
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  November 22, 2019 1:21pm
  - chaos
    
    That was Maggie, no joke, she made a fortune
    
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    November 22, 2019 1:59pm
Biscuit

srylands, poor little Willie seems to be the Labour Party’s go-to man whenever a diversion is needed…
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November 22, 2019 9:19am
- freethinker
  
  Willie is doing a great job with his bias, nastiness and Mawreecentric opinions – for National – keep it up Willie.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:20am
- JibberJabber
  
  Willie is Winstons` Mini-Me, all mouth and no trousers, he is there because Judith has seen off all the others that Labour put up against her.
  Twyford, Faafoi, and some other pasty patsy whose name I can`t remember, could hold a candle to Judith even when she`s on her best behaviour.
  Jackson just runs his mouth `til the timer runs out and no one can get a word in, let alone Garner.
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:35pm
Nookin

Just referring to Jim Bolger’s view that state funding of political parties is an option, I think the answer is much simpler.

Parties should be under an obligation to publish audited financial statements containing sufficient information to eliminate any perception of favours in return for donations.

This applies to private donations as well as union contributions.

The electoral commission should have the power to require immediate production of documentation and to require answers to questions in much the same way as the Serious Fraud Office Act has. This should extend to the likes of New Zealand First Foundation and other companies that have provided services that are reasonably assumed to be part of a Party’s electoral campaign.

I am not really interested in whether Peters has committed an offence or not. I doubt whether anyone will be able to sheet criminal culpability home. I am more interested in knowing where the money has come from, whether there have been any vested interests and what actions have been taken by the particular party that may favour those vested interests.

There is huge disquiet about the provincial growth fund. We have had few lolly scramble’s like this in our history and it is open to gross abuse. Is there any element of tacit quid pro quo in the delivery on policies or approval of grants?

This is not going to go away. It will severely tarnish the Prime Minister and Labour Party, already under a cloud having failed to express any disquiet at all about Future Forestry Products.
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November 22, 2019 9:19am
- Prince
  
  Bolger is just settling a few debts, and trying to stay relevant.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:00am
  - septic skeptic
    
    In Muldoon’s cabinet wasn’t he? No wonder he is advocating for more big government.
    
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    November 22, 2019 11:56am
- greybeard
  
  I don’t see that state funding of political parties is necessarily going to stop private donations.
  It is similar to saying that removing semi-auto rifles from responsible owners will stop firearm-related crimes.
  Or by giving out WINZ benefits it stops those same recipients stealing.
  
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  November 22, 2019 11:27am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Electoral Commission cannot make the forensic inquiries necessary to review some of the alleged nefarious practices.
  It’s doubtful if the SFO can also do that too. They are set up to deal with commercial fraud. This is a borderland area between politics, commerce and law. The actors are all people with significant reputations who can be damaged at a hint of trouble. Normally such people have integrity. Investigation of them can be viewed as political weapons too.
  If the Privileges Committee has the powers in respect of MP’s they should be requested to sponsor inquiries.
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:01pm
- Batman
  
  I’ve met with Jim a few times over the last few years. Sadly he is older now and not quite as sharp (but not doddery).
  
  He reads the herald as the paper of record and so is in favour of a sugar tax, full funding for political parties etc etc
  
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  November 22, 2019 5:29pm
Hugh Pavletich

IRELAND …

The solution to Ireland’s housing crisis? Homes … John Spain … Ireland Central

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/solution-irelands-housing-crisis-homes

… extracts …

… The Central Bank rules to prevent people from getting into trouble again require that first-time buyers need a deposit of ten percent and the amount they can borrow is capped at three and a half times their pay. The average price of a home in Dublin in the latest figures was €368,000, but in the better areas around the capital, it is at least €450,000 and a lot more in the most desirable areas, even for a modest home. …

… The answer to the overall problem is always going to be more and more homes being built by developers, the effect of which will trickle down to all levels, lowering both purchase prices and rents. In an effort to accelerate this, the government has simplified the planning structure for schemes of over 100 homes and made other changes to encourage builders.

But it’s going to take time, probably another five years before home completions reach the required level to stabilize the market and get prices and rents down to a reasonable level.

It’s also worth noting that building lots of social housing is not always sustainable, despite the hue and cry by some media commentators and politicians on the left. Even though social housing rents are very low, more than half of Dublin City Council’s 24,400 tenants are behind on their rent, with 20 percent of them more than six months in arrears. Yet no one is ever evicted because then they present as homeless and the council has to put them up in emergency accommodation to keep them off the streets. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Central Bank of Ireland – Mortgage Measures

https://www.centralbank.ie/financial-system/financial-stability/macro-prudential-policy/mortgage-measures
.
.
… Local Government New Zealand says …

Property owners and developers want more councils to be directed by Government under new planning rules … Marta Steeman … Stuff NZ

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116615782/property-owners-and-developers-want-more-councils-to-be-directed-by-government-under-new-planning-rules

… concluding …

… (Local Government New Zealand says …) … The real obstacles to development were a restrictive planning regime, too much risk on councils regarding building and the inability to open up land for development because of poor infrastructure funding and financing tools.
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November 22, 2019 9:33am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is Brian Henry aware of MPs’ salary ? c. $180,000

He must move in different circles to them if he thinks they could rustle up $30M.
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November 22, 2019 9:35am
- MCos
  
  You just cottoned on?
  Rich bastards have been using that tactic for years to shut people up one way or another.
  
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  November 22, 2019 9:43am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Agree. Given the experience of the defamation cases over the last few years, maybe it would be best just to cancel the right to sue and make defamation some sort of minor criminal offence instead.
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:02pm
- chaos
  
  But he on.y involves himself with politicians who line their own pockets so doesn’t know
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:18pm
- greybeard
  
  Plenty of our MP’s have other lucrative sources of income.
  
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  November 22, 2019 6:24pm
Happychappy

The media started this with Winston Peter’s and his Lawyer so now they have to finish it because if he gets away this time with just being centured he will just come back and do the same rort again but in a different form.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12287365
The public of NZ are fickle and it seems know mater what NZ first do they want to believe that they are in right to do so. God help NZ Politics if Peter’s again gets away with what most believe is corrupt.
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November 22, 2019 9:36am
- Poppa
  
  Peters is dust this time…….good
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:00am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Let’s hope you’re right.
    
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    November 22, 2019 12:04pm
JibberJabber

Here`s one good news story to take us into the weekend, from Australia,
/www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/11/australian-man-benjamin-batterham-found-not-guilty-of-murdering-burglar-who-he-chased-down-and-

With a mother as thick as Beryl, no wonder it this was the end result.
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November 22, 2019 9:56am
Tony Stuart

Kudos to the Police Association for calling “bullshit” on Labour’s claims of 1800 Police. I doubt it would have happened when the now-MP for Ohariu was the boss.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/government-only-halfway-to-1800-new-cops-target-police-association.html?fbclid=IwAR2mXgphEyq5uhHlt9RCE1lngruQeKKp9wTXcmV4lTCm9ki6YgbZlCnU8X4

Interestingly, the 1800 figure reached yesterday includes police who were already in training when there was a change of government, and those who had been through the application process and were waiting for an intake to start. The actual increase in police from 1/11/2017 to yesterday is 822.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20191121_054675000/12-question-no-12-police
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November 22, 2019 10:04am
- peterwn
  
  “… the now-MP for Ohariu was the boss.”
  You mean temporary MP for Ohariu.
  
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  November 22, 2019 10:37am
- Ruawai
  
  And deduct from that 822 how many there would be in any normal year and you get the increase in what Labour has had an effect on.
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:12pm
dave_c_

Ha ! Had to laugh, reading that Ardern was chatting about having her wisdom teeth out.
My understanding that there was absolutely no ‘wisdom’ to begin with, to extract from that failed PM
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November 22, 2019 10:30am
Maggie Pie

My partner just txt me to say it doesn’t sound like the judge’s summing up in the Grace Millane murder trail has left the jury with too much riggle-room. to xpect an early verdict.
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November 22, 2019 11:09am
- skyblue
  
  Can’t see any other outcome than guilty of murder.
  
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  November 22, 2019 12:27pm
  - chaos
    
    I can, and i hope I’m wrong
    
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    November 22, 2019 3:47pm
chaos

Millie Bobby Brown showing that kids can address the world at the UN with class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pErOmCSx8pU

UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador Millie Bobby Brown addressed the issue of online bullying. She said, “I am convinced that social media doesn’t have to be a place of fear, bullying and harassment. It can bring people together. It can be a place of love and support.”
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November 22, 2019 11:48am
Mike H

Joe Green, who managed arms control nationally for the Police from 1998 to 2014, said back in March he had a source who told him that correct procedures were not followed by Police when they vetted the terrorist. https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/rnz/ex-cop-gun-licence-obtained-without-proper-checks
Police denied this, and said a home inspection was carried out in October and his licence was issued in November. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/world/christchurch-shooting-police-deny-alleged-killer-gamed-firearms-system/news-story/a50ab8e7d0db7e56f76e83d22e11eeea
This is a lie. The mail order ammo paperwork which recently came to light (via Aoraki Ammunition’s submission) shows his licence was issued in September. Which means his vetting, if any, was done prior to this. Why are the Police lying? To cover up their own incompetence? or is there something more nefarious going on here?
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November 22, 2019 11:55am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Well, that’s one of the reasons for the royal commission investigation. Hopefully, it will highlight any police deficiencies. More hopefully, any deficiencies can be rectified. Even more hopefully, anyone culpable may be brogought to account.
  
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  November 22, 2019 1:13pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    The commission’s TOR specifically exclude them doing that.
    
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    November 22, 2019 2:12pm
cut n paster

But this is a green paradise without predators or poisonous beasties.
I want a working group established promptly……

Australian and New Zealand teenagers among most inactive in the world.
“with neighbouring New Zealand faring only slightly better.”

LINK:https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/22/australian-and-new-zealand-teenagers-among-most-inactive-in-the-world
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November 22, 2019 1:08pm
- MCos
  
  Our kids are better than Aussies.
  That’s all you need to know!
  
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  November 22, 2019 4:07pm
Maggy Wassilieff

NZer involved in the poisoning of 420 wedge-tailed eagles..
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/22/calls-for-man-who-killed-420-wedge-tailed-eagles-to-face-charges-under-wildlife-act
Ozzie has sent him back to NZ.
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November 22, 2019 1:14pm
stephieboy

Another mind blowing grenade tossed into the Trump impeachment inquiry and Trump trainwreck.

“Trump impeachment hearings: Ukraine meddling theory ‘fictional narrative’ – former advisor”

“President Donald Trump’s former Russia adviser Fiona Hill urged lawmakers in the House of Representatives impeachment inquiry on Thursday not to promote “politically driven falsehoods” that cast doubt on Russia’s interference in the 2016 US election….

….In her testimony, Dr Hill said some members of the panel appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against the United States during the 2016 presidential race, and that perhaps Ukraine did.
“This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” said Dr Hill, who until July served as the director for European and Russian affairs at the White House National Security Council.

“In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests,” she said during the hearing, which ended after more than five hours of testimony.

The notion that Ukraine interfered in 2016 was one of two issues that the US president urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to investigate in a 25 July phone call that is at the heart of the impeachment effort….”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/403868/trump-impeachment-hearings-ukraine-meddling-theory-fictional-narrative-former-advisor

The trainwreck,

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160813/ISSUE07/308139989/the-trump-train-wreck
1 21
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November 22, 2019 1:20pm
- Inandout
  
  stephie, give it up.
  
  6 1
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  November 22, 2019 2:12pm
- rangitoto
  
  The real story:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSlX9m1iZ6M
  
  The Dims have got nothing.
  
  7 1
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  November 22, 2019 3:00pm
  - Max Sky
    
    You are accurate Rangi the left in the USA are desperate TDS plus ‘bluemanning’.
    
    4 1
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    November 22, 2019 7:04pm
Jack5

For military history buffs looking to fill a few minutes …

The story of the Aussies’ slouch hat, which was also worn by New Zealand mounted troops in World War 1.

https://youtu.be/OZ72V_9MF_k
8 0
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November 22, 2019 1:49pm
Rachael Membery

After Jones recused himself, did I read that he sat in on the proceedings anyway?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403553/nz-first-linked-company-applied-for-15m-govt-loan-pledges-transparency
7 0
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November 22, 2019 2:34pm
Tall Man

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=666397753742167&set=a.109051072810174&type=3&eid=ARBbZv_amMRZ2meBhJUjAx5eHlrR7KTl_Vui8nVxUOwVkZnMyJqn8mwW9ERsc34p2bjPlwjpBKzwtdrG

Do NOT hire this piece of shit! I recently hired Dave the landscaper to remodel my back yard. This morning I walked into my laundry and found him laying on the floor chewing up my wife’s underwear. I yelled at him and he ran away! He is out of control! Not to mention the hour long smokeos’. Also, Ive just found out that earlier this morning, Dave was licking his balls in front of my mother in law. ??
9 2
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November 22, 2019 2:48pm
- chaos
  
  oh my, I thought with that description it was Clarke
  
  5 0
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  November 22, 2019 3:45pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Was it the ball licking that made you think that?
    
    2 0
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    November 22, 2019 8:25pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Nice to see you can post something worthwhile.
  
  0 2
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  November 22, 2019 7:23pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You next huh
    Nah, never happen
    Snark snark snarrrrrk
    
    2 0
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    November 22, 2019 10:47pm
rangitoto

I see that the CoL have made a step to meet their goal of no prisoners. They are now called “Men in Care”. Not sure what they have done with the women and trans and non binary whatsamacallit ones.
7 0
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November 22, 2019 2:59pm
chaos

Touchy feely that will achieve nothing

* Corrections has begun calling prisoners “men in our care” in a move slammed by staff, according to well-placed sources.

Some officers are also being asked to address prisoners by their first names instead of their surnames, as was previously standard practice.

The raft of new terms also includes the te reo word paihere in lieu of prisoners, which in its noun form translates to “bundle”.*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117628824/corrections-to-call-prisoners-men-in-our-care-and-refer-to-them-by-their-first-names-sources-say
6 0
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November 22, 2019 3:02pm
chaos

Interesting story

* Trailer park entirely inhabited by paedophiles and sex offenders | 60 Minutes Australia

The creepiest place on earth – reporter Liam Bartlett visits ‘Pervert Park’, and reveals why it could be good for society.*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiquubYVbWQ
4 0
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November 22, 2019 3:18pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Pervert Park!
  Classic
  I can just see a certain commentator here going
  Trailer Park ✔️
  Fellow Perverts ✔️
  Sounds like the perfect holiday for him!
  
  3 1
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  November 22, 2019 6:59pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Sounds like that Louis Theroux episode where he visits the sex offenders’ prison, where they can’t be released unless they have an approved safe residence (spoiler alert: no one gets released).
  
  0 3
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  November 22, 2019 7:25pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    We bow to your superior knowledge about sex offenders.
    Are you allowed near Schools?
    
    2 0
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    November 22, 2019 10:46pm
Jack5

Jacinderella’s PR-spin rubbish on the economy in her speech to the “Trans-Tasman Business Circle” is exposed by economist Michael Reddell:

https://croakingcassandra.com/2019/11/22/spin-just-spin/
7 0
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November 22, 2019 4:02pm
Straight arrow

Stuff reports
“Academics are grumbling over Victoria University of Wellington’s five-point emissions reduction plan saying its goal will inevitably come from staff members’ pockets.”
One plan is to introduce an internal levy for air travel, which effectively reduces their budget.
They (academics) also say they personally top up travel as university amount is not enough.

Just like to point out, this is same institutions with the academics that are warning we all need to curb carbon emissions.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/117623323/victoria-university-of-wellington-green-goals-could-pick-academics-pockets?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
6 0
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November 22, 2019 5:11pm
- cmm
  
  Skype is good enough for attending conferences. No need for academics and activists to fly off to exotic locations.
  
  I consult internationally. I don’t even have a current passport.
  
  11 0
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  November 22, 2019 7:02pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    I have partners based in Sydney, Singapore, Burmuda and an obscure Lake in Sweden.
    We use Skype all the time. and FaceTime too.
    
    6 1
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    November 22, 2019 7:13pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Please keep your perversions to yourself.
      
      1 5
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      November 22, 2019 7:26pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Hahahahahahaha
        Nasty liar
        
        2 0
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        November 22, 2019 10:43pm
Maggie Pie

The ‘man in my care’ just got home 😀
First thing he said was that if he was on the jury, irrespective of the verdict, he’d let the horrible pr*ck stew for a few days anyway.
9 0
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November 22, 2019 5:13pm
- chaos
  
  Thank goodness it was murder, now one more Aussie to go
  
  6 1
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  November 22, 2019 5:47pm
Swifty

The Panel on NatRad this afternoon was a total lefty wank-fest, actively cheer-led by Wallace Chapman.

Not for the first time, I heard Wallace forcefully and persistently support Labour policies and the whole panel took for granted that inequality is a bad thing to be ‘solved’, forceful wealth redistribution was the only answer and that (Bernard Hickey said) opposition to this is ‘racist’ as well as morally wrong.

FFS – I have loved NatRad for decades but they’re not even trying to be impartial recently. They are a propaganda arm of Labour and don’t even try to hide it.

This is evil. Using taxpayer money to screw the scrum.
16 1
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November 22, 2019 5:20pm
- Batman
  
  They’ve always been urban liberal types though. I don’t think they’re intentionally promoting Labour, they just all happen to be Labour types ?
  
  5 7
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  November 22, 2019 5:41pm
  - Swifty
    
    Result is the same – other views are not represented and so listeners are presented with only one side.
    
    10 0
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    November 22, 2019 5:51pm
    - Batman
      
      Oh yeah, for sure.
      
      I’m not at all defending the bloody hand-wringers
      
      6 1
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      November 22, 2019 7:06pm
- Swifty
  
  KBers can judge for themselves:
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/2018723721/has-the-government-walked-the-walk-on-welfare
  
  3 0
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  November 22, 2019 6:27pm
- cmm
  
  Wallace Chapman is a clueless moron. No concept of people having different abilities, IQ etc.
  
  I heard him interviewing some woman on how they were teaching female prisoners simple employable skills like making coffee and they were struggling with that.
  
  He suggested they try teach some high demand skills. How about computer programming!
  
  FFS Wallace, why not surgery!
  
  A person who loses their shit trying to make a cup of coffee is not going to cope with accounting, programming, electrical engineering or whatever.
  
  Most prisoners are low IQ – less than 90.
  
  13 0
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  November 22, 2019 6:59pm
nasska

Not much has changed:

“Wellington remains in the memory as imperial only in the manner of artificial dressiness in everything. Your numerous gentlemen wearing long-faced hats, kid gloves and other fashionable attire … You bear away the palm of supremacy at the metropolis for leeches, drones and parasites, feeding on the public revenue.”

The Evening Post quotes a visitor, 1870.
7 0
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November 22, 2019 5:32pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Yes
  Now we see effete Millenial snobs wearing blue suits with brown shoes
  Such pretentiousness reeking of undeserved arrogance.
  
  4 0
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  November 22, 2019 7:02pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Of course how can we forget bitter ex Public Servants whose lives now consist of being lying Trolls making Smarmy Comments on line as they desperately try to compensate for their inadequate and ineffectual lives.
    But enough analysis.
    Have a good weekend everyone!
    Lol
    
    7 0
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    November 22, 2019 7:04pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Is everything all right at home, AoR? You always seem to be angry about things.
      
      1 5
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      November 22, 2019 7:11pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Touch a nerve there SM?
        Must admit I’m torn between laughing at your penchant for lying and actually feeling sorry for you that you have to be the biggest liar on Kiwiblog.
        My home life is good.
        Happy wife, happy life.
        How is your wife?
        Lol
        
        2 0
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        November 22, 2019 10:42pm
chaos

* Guilty: Man, 27, convicted of murdering British backpacker Grace Millane.

The jury of seven women and five men reached the verdict after just five hours.*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117069680/grace-millane-murder-trial-latest-updates
8 0
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November 22, 2019 5:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

GUILTY!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403901/guilty-verdict-in-grace-millane-murder-trial
Still with name suppression
15 0
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November 22, 2019 5:49pm
- chaos
  
  Doesn’t matter his name is well known, lol. One Aussie convicted, one to go
  
  5 0
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  November 22, 2019 5:54pm
- rouppe
  
  I’m assuming because he may appeal.
  
  Pretty quick verdict considering the length of the trial
  
  5 0
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  November 22, 2019 6:12pm
greybeard

6:18pm Friday 22nd Nov 2019
Barry Soper confirms on NewstalkZB that he is Winston’s BITCH.
12 0
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November 22, 2019 6:20pm
smttc

I cannot believe this jury decision.

There must be at least a reasonable doubt that it was merely sexual misadventure.

I suspect he has been condemned based on his selfish, immoral and inhumane actions post death. That is not grounds for a guilty verdict.

I suspect there will be an appeal.
0 6
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November 22, 2019 7:40pm
Happychappy

Jones threatens Auckland Ports CEO.
At a meeting in Finance Minister Grant Robertsons office last week with POAL CEO, Jones said: “my advice to you as chief Executive is do not put your head in a political noose.” Others at the meeting told Newsroom Jones boasted that he and the Deputy Prime Minister were top political operators a d Ports CEO Tony Gibson would be making a mistake if he decides to take them on.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/21/913309/jones-lays-political-noose-threat-on-ports-ceo
So even the Finance allows Shane Jones and Winston Peter’s to threaten and bully to get there way because they Question the costings that other Economists have said don’t add up.
3 0
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November 22, 2019 7:41pm
Fisiani

https://order-order.com/2019/11/22/beattie-asks-anybody-vote-labour-party/#disqus_thread

Wow , Just wow. Why would anyone vote for This Labour?
2 0
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November 22, 2019 8:59pm
Crazy Ivan

He’s one of God’s Own Prototypes, “Too weird to live, and too rare to die”.
God’s Own Prototype
0 0
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December 2, 2019 9:39am

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