General Debate 15 November 2019

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Maggy Wassilieff

Someone has been doing some digging on the relationships between NZ First and Forestry interests…

Winston, Shane and Brian Henry will not be happy.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/403335/nz-first-linked-forestry-company-pushed-for-govt-funds
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November 15, 2019 8:02am
- krazykiwi
  
  This closet has so many skeletons that the NZ First crooks will have trouble keeping them all stacked and hidden.
  
  Separately, given the articles on NZ First lately, it feels to me that the media can smell blood in the water. It would be entertaining if it wasn’t so serious.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:12am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    There’ll be room in the garage when the closet’s full.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:48am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      No space under Cindys carpet in the beehive. . .
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:00am
  - Ruahine
    
    An acquaintance about a month ago told me that Labour and the Greens want to be able to govern alone after the next election without the ‘hinderance’
    of NZ First. Therefore watch for dripfeed stories from the usual ‘reliable’ Labour news outlets that put NZ First in a bad light.
    
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    November 15, 2019 4:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jan Trotman shares a house? When will the leftist media tell the truth?
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:17am
  - sooty
    
    But is it her house?
    
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    November 15, 2019 8:27am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Probably not any more. If they split Peters will claim half.
      
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      November 15, 2019 9:45am
  - Gandolfo
    
    Winston Peters and his accolades went with Labour because they knew that they could do what they wished without interference, hence, follow the money.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:04am
    - greybeard
      
      Accolytes. Peters never has accolades. 🙂
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:57am
  - Simon
    
    Can Peters be impeached? Just don’t use any of those Dem or deep state mongs. If that happens NZ First will be biggest party in parliament
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:05am
- Swifty
  
  While I note these applications appear to have been unsuccessful, this time, I stand by the view that governments doling out public money to private interests is wrong, wrong, wrong.
  
  They almost never deliver anything like the benefits claimed – and the opportunities for graft and corruption abound.
  
  As we’ve seen overseas initiatives like the PGF create whole industries dedicated to gaining taxpayer money and favours from politicians. Is this really what we either want or need in NZ?
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:20am
  - Maxx
    
    Its the supporting organisations that are probably where the issue is at. Who’s to say that Jones didn’t approve the applications of the Eastland Community Trust etc. knowing that it would ultimately benefit this corrupt organisation.
    
    With transparency similar to that of a fogged-in airport and the lack of due diligence that Jones does, there could even be kickbacks between these companies. Note that the $19.5M is just below the level at which he would need to seek further approval.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:39am
  - Nickc2
    
    Follow the money trail, every touch leaves a trace. I’m picking forestry money from the PGF will deliberately pass through many shelf companies before it ends up in an NZ controlled foreign trust account.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:57am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Or party foundation?
      
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      November 15, 2019 12:19pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    And most the slush fund seems to be dished out in an electorate Jones hopes to win next year. The Auditor General needs to take a very close look at each dollop of cash handed out. We’d like some surety around the antics of the most closed and opaque Government ever.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:01am
    - Ruahine
      
      The Auditors are probably looking very closely, but will they be permitted to do anything about it.
      
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      November 15, 2019 4:25pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    When government picks winners, losers pick government
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  So Winnies lot set up a PGF to provide funding for their adventure?
  I hope the Auditors are looking closely.
  The concept is beyond appalling and merits excision of anyone considering such.
  What price politics?
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:43am
  - Ruawai
    
    This is the trouble with MMP the kingmaker party can extract from the government what it wants and the voter is powerless. Labour would have given Winston anything so they could be Government even at the disadvantage of the people.
    
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    November 15, 2019 12:19pm
    - JeffW
      
      Labour don’t need Winston to “disadvantage the people”. Socialists say they stand for the people, but in practice this is far from true.
      
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      November 15, 2019 1:47pm
  - Ruahine
    
    The Auditors are probably looking very closely, but will they be permitted to do anything about it.
    
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    November 15, 2019 4:19pm
- rouppe
  
  If we were talking about Trump and staffers being appointed to entities seeking funds from the trump administration the cries of corruption would be deafening.
  
  Why not in this case on our own shores?
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:57am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Remember we dont do conflicts of interest in NZ. They are no conflicts of interest. I repeat. There are no conflicts of interest.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:30am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The NZF mantra is that if it is in Winston or Shane’s interest, there is no conflict 😀
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:37am
- Michael
  
  I istened in traffic this morning, interesting.
  I couldn’t hear any corruption.
  Not that I am defending NZF.
  
  Sadly, it was all innuendo.
  2 of the applications have been pushed back or cancelled as any process should do.
  the reporting didn’t give the onjectives not met leading to thoise decisions.
  
  Is Winnie on a downer so the dogs circling??
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Are you suggesting they wouldn’t have accepted the One Billion Trees or Provincial Growth Fund money had it been offered?
    
    If you believe that, perhaps you’d like me to send you a photo of the bridge I currently have for sale 😀
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:31am
Maggie Pie

My partner just asked me what was the opposite of ‘woke’?

I suggested ‘awake’.

Thoughts?
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November 15, 2019 8:02am
- Rodney Randall
  
  sane
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:07am
- Simon
  
  Joseph Mengele was woke.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:08am
- srylands
  
  Perceiving
  Comprehending
  Reasoned
  Logical
  Analytical
  Empathetic
  .. take your pick
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:49am
  - Nickc2
    
    How about dumb as . . . . .
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:03am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Don’t take it personally Maggie but how about ‘go back to sleep?’
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:50am
- Gravelroad
  
  Asleep.
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:19am
- Ruawai
  
  Not brainwashed and able to think for oneself.
  
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  November 15, 2019 12:20pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy Day of the Imprisoned Writer!
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November 15, 2019 8:03am
- sooty
  
  If you weren’t such a dick, you would not gather so many downticks and people might read what you write instead of downtick and move on!
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:51am
artemisia

‘Period poverty’ is getting a lot of airtime at the moment. The Prime Minister is focusing on it. It is the cause du jour. Apparently thousands of girls are missing several days of school every month because of this. Apparently.

‘Analysis by University of Otago found 94,788 girls aged 9 to 18 from the country’s poorest households may be unable to afford to buy sanitary items and could therefore be staying home when they have their period.’

New World – 20 sanitary pads for $1.99. Similar at Countdown.

Something not adding up here. Is it really about the money? Is anyone asking the parents why they can’t find a couple of bucks a month for their daughters to stay in school? Sounds like a discreet knock on the door would be a good idea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/117197654/period-poverty-nearly-100000-girls-at-risk-of-missing-school
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November 15, 2019 8:04am
- Prince
  
  Waiting for someone in the media to ask Ardern if she really believes $2 a month (or less) needs Goct assistance. Or is this the new plastic bag project – bugger the science and logic, let’s just talk it up.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:13am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Don’t be fooled. Comrade Ardern does not have an empathic bone in her body. Communists always have another agenda. You can rest assured that this exercise has a dual agenda.
    
    No doubt to get the free packs, you will have to provide personal data. This personal data and the address will be cross referenced against Census data, IRD data, and more importantly MSD and WINZ data.
    
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    November 15, 2019 12:01pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Pads like plastic bags are surely not good for the environment.
    
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    November 15, 2019 12:22pm
  - cmm
    
    Once it becomes a government function it will end up costing each household $10 per girl per month.
    
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    November 15, 2019 2:04pm
    - artemisia
      
      But think of all the new jobs created to manage the programme. And the working group.
      
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      November 15, 2019 4:20pm
- kevn
  
  @art… Another example of poor life skills.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:32am
  - artemisia
    
    Poor life skills plus little interest in education – generational welfare coming right up.
    
    It is quite possible it is the young women themselves who have twigged that a few days off school each month for a now valid poor-me reason is a good tradeoff for lost education.
    
    School is not top of the must do list for some teenagers, and hey here’s a good and unverifiable excuse.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:45am
- Straight arrow
  
  What is ignored is that, according to same university (Otago), the cost of feeding adolescent boys is at least $12 per week more than adolescent girls, so much more than extra cost of tampons etc.
  Food survey, 2018.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:38am
  - thetiedarch
    
    Sorry mate, but how dare you correctly point out that it costs $12 more a week to feed a male child. That’s sexist and isn’t allowed.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:51am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Amen on that fact -have three versions of hungry caterpillars at our house and hubby and boy cat equally hungry!!!
    
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    November 15, 2019 4:24pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  What about shaving poverty where by young men who start shaving have to buy razors??
  
  What about bog paper poverty????
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:47am
  - Straight arrow
    
    MSD investigated bog paper poverty, found it a tissue of lies…
    But seriously, the counter-argument for shaving would be that shaving is optional but periods are not. Depends on school, as some allow beards I believe now, but my school back in day did not.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:13am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      Shaving absolutely not optional at Auckland grammar FYI …. boys school not girls …..
      
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      November 15, 2019 4:25pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yup, and razors are expensive AF ?
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:16am
  - curry4me
    
    Boys don’t count. They go on to become part of the ‘patriarchy’. /sarc
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:37am
- G152
  
  One might ask as to how women got by before the Tampax with the privilege whittering in the media.
  But then most of us know
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:48am
- alloytoo
  
  This is the latest in a long line of attempts to create and exemption in GST.
  
  This I believe is the primary motivator.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:17am
- Gravelroad
  
  Just about every young teenage girl has a phone.
  If they can afford to be on their phones 24/7, how come they can’t afford tampons?
  I asked this question at a group I attend and was roundly downticked.
  Apparently phones are the only source of communication and recreation for young girls. It would be against their human rights to be deprived of this vital social interaction.
  So if they have to stay home from school due to no sanitary protection at least they can still play phone games, txt and go on social media……..
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:26am
  - artemisia
    
    Fortunately their close female friends will be menstruating in synch. Win win. Time out with mates, all day, and tomorrow as well.
    
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    November 15, 2019 12:36pm
  - artemisia
    
    Tampons are more expensive than the cheap house brand pads. And cooler. There are mean girls out there ….
    
    A few days off school each month is cooler than the wrong sanitary protection.
    
    Sad.
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:31pm
- JackRabbit
  
  >>>‘Analysis by University of Otago found 94,788 girls aged 9 to 18 from the country’s poorest households may be unable to afford to buy sanitary items and could therefore be staying home when they have their period.’
  
  Focus on the words “may be unable to afford”…
  It is not “cannot afford”, it is “may be unable to afford”.
  
  Sounds like:
  1) Want a reason to justify wagging school.
  2) No money to spend $2 on sani pads after parents paying for smoking alcohol and gambling.
  3) No money to spend $2 on sani pads after paying for monthly smart phone payments, netfliks and dope. No doubt the parents of these 94,788 girls will be saying no to legalising cannabis, as they and their family don’t smoke weed, tabocco, or drink alcohol as these are lower priority than their daughters sanitary pads. Yeah right.
  
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  November 15, 2019 12:47pm
- Bell-47
  
  I have 4 daughters, I don’t believe 9 year olds are part of this statistic or even 10 year olds. The other issue I have have is girls are very shy about this especially if they have a surprise period and is noticeable. It’s extremely embarrassing and likely a good reason to stay home to save any further embarrassment. Nothing to do with affordability. Lastly, little girls are not all made of sugar and spice, their personal hygiene, in many cases is the same if not worse than boys, this means they are forgetful and sometimes forget it’s period time or forget the pads. All of my daughters had problems with this albeit minor problems but the shame they feel is what made them not want to go to school along with the associated pain periods can cause. Not poverty..
  
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  November 15, 2019 3:23pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  20 pads every period (monthly) maybe needs the help of the local gynaecologist … this is bullshit … a young teenager having a period doesn’t need 20 pads per period or similar in tampons IMHO
  
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  November 15, 2019 4:21pm
Lance

Yet another silly morning with MSM. People that apply for jobs with known abysmal pay, then give angst riven interviews on how they can’t make ends meet.
Sigh

This mornings offering is teacher aids.
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November 15, 2019 8:05am
- ldypen
  
  Agree, this one is obviously thick as a brick and should immediately be fired, being this stupid should disqualify her as a teachers aide .. should be nowhere near any students!
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:23am
- srylands
  
  yes well sadly being a teacher’s aide is not a skilled job. They do excellent work. But cleaners do excellent work. I make a habit of saying hello and being polite to cleaners. But there is a reason they are not paid much.
  
  An experienced teachers aide gets between $20 and $25 per hour. That seems about right. If it was not right there would be a chronic teachers aide shortage.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:52am
  - Blackbob
    
    Yep, the low pay rate is probably more to do with hours worked rather than hourly rates, most teacher aides don’t work anywhere near a full 35 (40) hour week.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:00am
peterwn

The Winston Peters hearing is now wrapped and it is in post production with Justice Venning and it seems the cutting room floor is going to be littered.
I had thought that Brian Henry on behalf of Winston had ‘discontinued’ proceedings because Winston was no longer seeking damages. The implication here is Winston would be liable to meet some of Paula’s and Ann’s costs most probably on the usual 2B scale although some w ould argue it should be much higher (the court AFAIK can order a % uplift).
But an item on the Radio NZ web site dispels that notion:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403234/bennett-tolley-avoid-financial-damages-in-peters-privacy-case

I am still trying to get my head around what Brian Henry was going on about. I indicated earlier on Kiwiblog that he was likely to be reduced to waffling when giving his closing address and that is what seems to have happened. There is too much to ‘block quote’ from the article so I will try and extract the gist.
1. He said Paula and Ann denied leaking overpayment details (which they had all along)
2. Winston was expecting the Crown’s lawyer (on behalf of the departments and CE’s) to challenge that denial in cross examination but she did not. Why should she? It is Winston’s job to prove they leaked, not the Crown’s job. So what the hell was Brian going on about? Seems part of his modus operandi was to drive a wedge between the two defence lawyers to facilitate his attack. They obviously did not fall for that.
3. By failing to cross examine, the Crown conceded that the leaks came from the Departments. Winston and Brian presumably thought that by letting Paula and Ann off the hook the case against the departments was strengthened. In other words they had to fall back on a ‘Plan B’.
4. But while conceding that Paula and Ann (and their offices) did not leak and hence there would be no damages, he still wants a ruling they were somehow ‘in the wrong’ by receiving the ‘no surprises’ information. Now you commit a crime by receiving stolen property but that requires the receiver to know or should have known it was stolen (I am not sure of requires standard of proof). But then what ‘wrong’ did Paula and Ann did in receiving the ‘no surprises’ information. They did not know it was ‘wrong’ to receive it, they would be entitled to rely on the CEs’ judgements as to whether it was wrong.
5. So despite Brian arguing that they will still partially on the hook, in reality they now have no case to answer.
6. Seems Winston and Brian would try and argue that Winston had some measure of success with respect to Paula and Ann, to try and avoid a complete slam dunk award of costs against him.
7. I have not seen the pleadings, but it appears that the evidence and proof to support some of the pleadings is just not there. During the pre-trial process Brian should have sought to amend the pleadings to remove the items that could not be supported.

Hope this makes some sense.
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November 15, 2019 8:06am
- artemisia
  
  Peterwn, your excellent commentary on the Peters case is very much appreciated.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:17am
- alex Masterley
  
  Peterwn,
  Thanks for the summary.
  I am not sure how the ministers could be in the wrong as once the information became public the media would have been asking questions of them about Mr Peters and the overpayment so they needed to know so they weren’t caught flat footed.
  My feeling is that Brian Henry is attempting to make the best of a bad situation.
  My own assessment is that becasue of the acknowledgment that they did not leak any information (received in confidence) Mr Peters is on the hook for a substantial costs order in favour of Ms Tolley and Ms Bennett.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:19am
- kevn
  
  @peter… Nice to see christian names used in your summary. Seems so… cosy and fire-side chatty.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:35am
  - Ruahine
    
    I am waiting to read or hear of the sincere apology from Winston Peters to Paula Bennett and Ann Tolley respectively.
    
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    November 15, 2019 4:33pm
    - peterwn
      
      He could always send Paula some flowers.
      
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      November 15, 2019 8:14pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Peterwn:
  “I had thought that Brian Henry on behalf of Winston had ‘discontinued’ proceedings because Winston was no longer seeking damages.”
  You’re confusing the leak with the main issue: the process of private information being given to politicians under a ‘no surprise’ policy.
  
  “1. He said Paula and Ann denied leaking overpayment details (which they had all along)”
  Yes, though WP could be satisfied by their evidence and cross examination that indeed was the case. It was said by Henry at the end of the trial that it was accepted they had not leaked.
  
  I think in his evidence Peter’s said that if the Crown had not sought to provide the Ministers with the private information ‘they (those in Court) wouldn’t be here today.’
  Others have pointed out days ago regarding costs of the MPs being met the Crown.
  The issue is about the protocol that MPs and Governments gave themselves to access private information. There seem to be no firm rules about that. Common sense would say the Privacy Commissioner’s advice on the release of any such information would meet a strong test. Maybe that will happen now – even be put into law if it is not already.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:47am
  - fernglas
    
    It is even simpler than peterwn sets out. The first Peters argument was:
    1) The Ministers didn’t leak
    2) Therefore it must have been the department.
    3) Therefore the department breached privacy and is liable for damages
    
    That is a separate issue from whether the department should have told the Ministers. On that issue the argument was
    1) The information did not come within the “no surprises” rule
    2) So it was a breach of privacy to pass the information to the Ministers.
    3) And again there is a liability to pay damages
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:59am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Yes.
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:36am
      - toby1845
        
        No. WP had potentially committed fraud. It was entirely appropriate that the appropriate Ministers be advised. I would say the same if the offender had been a National MP, and the Ministers Labour.
        
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        November 15, 2019 5:05pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Wrong on all counts.
      
      1) Peters deceived MSD by providing false data.
      2) Peters made a gain out of the false data.
      3) This is covered under the 1961 Crimes Act. Something Peters as a govt official should know.
      4) The only thing the department is liable for is whoever tried to hide it. Which is another breach of the crimes act under an attempt to pervert justice.
      5) Clearly someone who knew the law got pissed off with fraud being committed by Peters who has made a career out of exposing and chasing fraud – read Winebox. And got pissed off with the coverup – attempt to pervert or delay justice.
      6) The right to anonymity is almost non existent under any NZ law, where the matter pertains to the crimes act, either directly as in fraud, or in an attempt to pervert justice.
      7) Criminal law always trumps Civil law.
      8) Taking that into account, Peters court case is about Peters trying to find out who dobbed him in, more befitting of a mob boss that a member of parliament.
      9) The NZ public have a right to know when one of its representatives has its hand in the cookie jar.
      10) It appears that Peters does not understand or acknowledge the crimes act.
      11) After his deception and fraud, and his questioning about why the payouts are less for people living together, Peters has outed himself as a common thief, not fitting for a someone who is supposed to be a role model and upholder of the law. Like his boss, it is all virtue signalling. He should stand down now while he has the chance.
      
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      November 15, 2019 12:28pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        You fall at the first hurdle JackRabbit, a improperly filled out form is the responsibility of MSD to correct as is 1 not fully completed as happened here. If Peters had deceived MSD he would have been charged if intent could be proved.
        
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        November 15, 2019 1:28pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Brian McDonald
        
        If you read the court notes, that is not failing to fill out the form, as Peters had stated on the form that his living status was that he was living apart from his ex. Which is true, but it is not the whole truth.
        
        Omission, i.e. leaving out information that creates a false reality is an intention to deceive, and is part of fraud. Especially where said forms are signed and information acknowledged as being correct.
        
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        November 15, 2019 8:40pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @ Brian McDonald
        >>>”…If Peters had deceived MSD he would have been charged if intent could be proved…”
        
        You, and Winston Peters need to spend some time reading the 1961 Crimes Act.
        
        There is no guarantee that Peters would have been charged with fraud. Thousands of cases go through the various civil courts and tribunals every year that have a criminal aspect, that are not referred to the police.
        
        Anyone working in justice knows that Police have minimum thresholds to even look at a case. Usually it has to involve 6 figures or more, and Police lawyers have to be convinced that there is better than a 75-99% chance of successful prosecution. And all it takes is a defendant or witness to lie on the witness stand, to sink the whole case.
        
        Furthermore it is very expensive for Police to go to trial. It does not however change the nature of what Peters did, which was to mislead MSD by omission.
        
        I can imagine that whoever leaked it probably knew that no action would be taken, but felt outraged that someone charged with upholding truth and justice of New Zealand was defrauding a govt dept by lying and bully tactics.
        
        Peters is not the first to do so and will not be the last. If all such incidents suddenly came to light, the courts would be swamped, and the Col government party lists would probably be filled with humble cleaners and clerical staff. The rest would be in court.
        
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        November 15, 2019 9:01pm
  - peterwn
    
    “You’re confusing the leak with the main issue: the process of private information being given to politicians under a ‘no surprise’ policy.”
    I am not confusing anything. My focus was on Paula and Ann.
    This issue is of no concern to Paula and Ann in the context of this case since they only received the information. Assuming the Judge rules against the Departments and their CE’s on this I cannot see how any damages can be awarded against Ann and Paula on this one because they are not parties to the Judge’s potential ruling. Therefore as far as I can see no costs can be awarded against Paula and Ann on this point nor how any costs awarded against Winston can be abated by their alleged or vicarious behaviour.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:16am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Can’t agree with ‘only received the information.’ The correct thing to do was return or destroy it as being private information under the Act. Parliamentarians have an obligation to uphold the law as law makers and the standard for them should be higher than that for the public. The Judge may comment on that, we’ll see. You’re right about no award made against them as that was withdrawn yesterday by Henry and it might be too finer point that they ought to have distanced themselves from the info.
      
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      November 15, 2019 1:35pm
      - peterwn
        
        I do not recollect this aspect (Ministers should have destroyed or returned the information) being pleaded. Hence it is not in play. Anyway they had every right to assume that they received it legitimately just like the CEs’ after seeking a Crown Law opinion considered they were under an obligation to inform their Ministers.
        I predict the outcome to be:
        1. Ann and Paula found to have done no wrong.
        2. Ann and Paula will receive from Winston 2B costs +20% uplift which will be paid to the Crown, since the Crown is paying their legal costs.
        3. The ‘no surprises’ policy is upheld and any changes is up to Parliament to decide.
        4. No evidence that the agencies leaked.
        5. Crown will receive from Winston 2B costs possibly with some uplift.
        6. Paula will send Winston a nice bunch of flowers.
        
        Winston’s pretty horses will need to perform well to help him recoup the costs he will have to pay. Unfortunately or fortunately for him, Tuesday 3 November 2020 is a long way off.
        
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        November 15, 2019 2:33pm
      - toby1845
        
        “Parliamentarians have an obligation to uphold the law as law makers and the standard for them should be higher than that for the public.“
        
        I fully agree that parliamentarians should not commit fraud, and that they should be held to account if they do.
        
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        November 15, 2019 5:08pm
      - Chuck
        
        “The correct thing to do was return or destroy it as being private information under the Act.”
        
        Haha you mean to use that device from the Men in Black movie that can wipe a person’s memory, in this case, Paula and Ann’s!.
        
        There was no evidence given in court apart from Winston’s discredited opinion that his overpayment did not meet the requirements under the no surprise policy.
        
        You need to get over the private information bit…that would never stop a minister being briefed under the no surprise policy.
        
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        November 15, 2019 5:13pm
    - artemisia
      
      The 2020 election is indeed a long way off, but New Years Day 2020 is not. The timing of the court judgement is not known except that it will be after Christmas.
      
      Perfect timing for the big gong, resignation from the Parliament and either retirement or the London posting.
      
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      November 15, 2019 3:25pm
      - peterwn
        
        Lester Piggot in UK missed out on the big gong at the last minute when HMRC potted him. Instead of feeling Her Majesty’s sword on his shoulder he was instead her guest for 6 months. I think enough is occurring around NZF at the moment that Jacinda would be very unwise to include him in the gong list for 1 Jan 2020.
        
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        November 15, 2019 6:03pm
- Chuck
  
  My view in regards to the “no surprise policy” the defense provided enough evidence to make Venning’s job easy. Add in Winston’s verbal diarrhea on the workings of the “no surprise policy” it just gets embarrassing for Peters.
  
  I agree it seems Henry had hoped for some fireworks between the departments and MP’s legal teams, blaming each other for the leak. However Henry was outfoxed, it should not be for the defense to do Henry’s job. He is hanging his hat on yes it cannot be ruled out that someone in the civil service could be the source of the leak.
  
  I can only assume – Peters and Henry forgot they were in the High Court – in not trying to amend some of the more colorful pleadings… that pesky thing could evidence would be required to support the pleadings.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:15am
- Straight arrow
  
  The big problem Peters has re the damages, is that he publically outed himself: media did not say who he was, just what he had done.
  
  In Slater v Craig: Judge declined to award damages, stating that “the reputational damage which Mr Craig suffered throughout the events traversed at length in this judgment resulted almost entirely from his own actions.”
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:23am
- Ruawai
  
  I can’t understand how it was even accepted by the courts as a case to answer.
  
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  November 15, 2019 12:25pm
  - peterwn
    
    AFAIK the High Court generally has to accept the papers as long as they are in the right form and the filing fee is paid. The other side needs to file a rebuttal in return and so on. The defendant can try and persuade the judge to throw the case out, but there is a very barrier (ie no chance of success).
    Any decent lawyer will organise pleadings so it looks plausible and to minimise the chance of the case being struck out. Either side can seek strike out of any of the other side’s pleading.
    Where both parties have a genuine matter to resolve and are acting in good faith, they will narrow it right down to the issue to be decided and agree on all or most of the supporting evidence. The lawyers for both sides will keep their arguments concise, on point and make them helpful to the judge.
    Judges just love this sort of case. Judges are supposed to be impartial, but human nature being what it is, the side who can present its arguments concisely and logically, and who can present a quality list of precedent cases to the judge is at an advantage.
    
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    November 15, 2019 2:58pm
dave_c_

Corruption Alert ! Corruption Alert ! Corruption Alert #
I hear this morning on the news that a new Forestry related business was established after the announcement that ‘trees are cool, and need to be planted in the billions’, and guess who are behind it.
None other than some aligned with NZ First, including current sitting members on the board.
Then they had the gaul to apply for funding from the development funding that Jones manages.
Fortunately those charged with authorising the funding turned them down.
Thats what I believe is the correct outcome, however:
This has the signs of corruption and nepotism at the highest levels, and should be investigated in my opinion.
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November 15, 2019 8:06am
- Simon
  
  It’s about the jobs. All the hooker and drug dealer jobs that will be created with that corruption
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:11am
- Batman
  
  Well, political slush funds do tend to attract gifters sadly
  
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  November 15, 2019 1:09pm
niggly

Fishgate or Gentergate? Looks like Chris Bishop has uncovered more “fishy” conflicts of interest involving Julie Anne Genter and Phil Twyford taking a transport lobbyist to dinner, who has no expertise with governance and looks like upon Genter/Twyford’s insistence has been appointed to the board of NZTA despite them continuously trying to reject his appointment.

Shades of Claire Curran and secret meetings come back to mind. What will the spineless and imposter of a PTPM do? Probably nothing of course!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117441122/ministers-fishy-wellington-dinner-during-nzta-board-appointment-process
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November 15, 2019 8:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Never forget; a fish rots from the head down. The buck stops with the Prime Minister, at whose pleasure all Ministers serve.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:47am
  - sooty
    
    Yep, that Twit Tyford is in the middle of it again!
    Can he do nothing right!
    It all comes back to you Cindy!
    Sack the bastard, or do you have no balls!
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:00am
  - dave_c_
    
    Wot – Stops with the Prime Minister ? Surely you mean the ‘Claytons Prime Minister’
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:28am
Happychappy

This is not a very good look for Winston Peters, Shane Jones, Brian Henry and Jan Trotman. If Chris Bishop can link the Provincial Growth Fund to this the Auditor General could be asking some tricky questions.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/403335/nz-first-linked-forestry-company-pushed-for-govt-funds
Even being involved in this Company Winston with Shanes help to push Forestry and Rail this has a very bad smell.
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November 15, 2019 8:09am
Tricati

I see the Twyford & Genter show is still going strong – Seems there is a weekly exposure of some underhand deal going on with this government and yet they still get a free pass from most in the media – Good on those who are now looking to hold them to account.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117441122/ministers-fishy-wellington-dinner-during-nzta-board-appointment-process
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November 15, 2019 8:09am
secondcumming

Stuff reports…

“Anyone who offends China, no matter how remote, must be exterminated”

Actually, I wouldn’t mind so much if I could get a *40% tax cut*….otherwise, they can fuck-off in my opinion 😎

https://twitter.com/Anne_MarieBrady/status/1194843461511340032
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November 15, 2019 8:10am
- curry4me
  
  I remember her from when I was doing Pols at uni. She’s a keeper. I guess she won’t be getting a Christmas card from the presitator this year either.
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:44am
kevn

@Maggy… Tacky ol’ whinney and his pals.
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November 15, 2019 8:14am
- sooty
  
  Starting to reek of brown paper bags and back pockets!
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:03am
oldpark

Interesting to see that the fake news outlet called Stuff wearing their Dominion Post hat, sponsored a so called Wellington of the year nomination.
Yes one of the so called winners was some wee girl who was hailed as being the main agitator for the myth of Climate Change. Pity the same fake news outlet is completely against any explanation balancing the claim. Not a good look. Then thats the breaks. Brainwashing by fake news outlets has become a reality,even worse they are getting away with the lies and myths.
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November 15, 2019 8:15am
All_on_Red

(Reuters) – Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said on Thursday that U.S. ambassador Gordon Sondland did not explicitly link military aid to Kiev with opening an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Interfax Ukraine reported.
“Ambassador Sondland did not tell us, and certainly did not tell me, about a connection between the assistance and the investigations.”
“I have never seen a direct relationship between investigations and security assistance,” Prystaiko was quoted as saying by Interfax. “Yes, the investigations were mentioned, you know, in the conversation of the presidents. But there was no clear connection between these events.”
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1XO1HK?__twitter_impression=true
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November 15, 2019 8:16am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Well Bill Taylor heard otherwise ” quid pro quo” ( this for that) from motar mouth the US President himself.
  
  From the most reputable source,
  
  “Trump Supporters Lose It After Fox News Calls Bill Taylor’s Testimony Damaging To Trump”
  
  https://www.politicususa.com/2019/11/13/chris-wallace-bill-taylor-fox-news.html
  
  LOL!
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:25am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘Well Bill Taylor heard otherwise ” quid pro quo” ( this for that) from motar mouth the US President himself.’
    
    Errr, in his Testimony, Taylor admitted he has never met or ever spoken to President Trump.
    So lol right back at ya Dummy
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:35am
    - stephieboy
      
      “Top US diplomat Bill Taylor revealed details of a previously unknown phone call between Trump and Gordon Sondland in his bombshell impeachment hearing testimony”
      
      Certainly heard and saw and heard a great deal more than your President would ever dare to admit,
      
      Bill Taylor, the top US diplomat in Ukraine, testified on Wednesday that his staffer overheard President Donald Trump asking the US ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, about Ukrainian “investigations” in a previously unreported July 26 call.
      
      “The member of my staff could hear President Trump on the phone asking Ambassador Sondland about the investigations,” Taylor said.
      Taylor said Sondland told his staffer after the phone call that Trump “cares more about the investigations of Biden, which Giuliani was pressing for.”
      
      Read more at
      https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-taylor-reveals-call-trump-gordon-sondland-impeachment-hearing-2019-11#Q1gll08hgALue2dq.99
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:14am
      - Scott
        
        Stephieboy – according to excerpts from the testimony of Amb Taylor he met with the president of Ukraine after the phone call and the Ukrainian president had no problems with it. In fact the Ukrainian Pres has been happy with the relationship with Pres Trump. He is also grateful to the American president for actually supplying weapons to the Ukrainians so they can defend themselves against Russia. This is something that Obama refused to do.
        
        So the Ukrainians are not complaining about their treatment from the Trump administration. The Ukrainians were not feeling ripped off or extorted. So this impeachment enquiry is not for the Ukrainians benefit.
        
        The fact of the matter is that the impeachment enquiry is for the sole purpose of bringing down Donald J Trump. And possibly for the protection of Joe and Hunter Biden.
        
        https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
        
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        November 15, 2019 11:26am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Overheard one end of a phone conversation while at a restaurant, and this is now what passes for “bombshell evidence” ?
        
        So Taylor is passing along more third and fourth hand hearsay, surely this is a joke. Note that if this matter does reach the Senate, Taylor (and Kent) will not be able to give evidence as hearsay will be inadmissable.
        
        Just to note, I heard someone say that they heard someone say that they heard someone on a mobile phone while in a subway station in Washington DC, that Adam Schiff buggers little boys and pays them off with taxpayers money. Yah good to go with that as evidence ?
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:22pm
      - Batman
        
        Scott, what did you think Zelensky was going to say?
        
        If you think we was going to say anything other than nice things and agree with Trump in order to get the military aid he needs, you are truly in need of some real world experience.
        
        Biting the hand that feeds… Or in this case, biting the hand that wants something in return for feeding
        
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        November 15, 2019 1:13pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Someone is interpreting what was said to suit their own agenda eg ‘Taylor said Sondland told his staffer after the phone call that Trump “cares more about the investigations of Biden’. What Sondland told his staffer is an ‘opinion’. Even it wasn’t, its still hearsay.
        
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        November 15, 2019 2:11pm
  - Fletch
    
    Taylor?? Under questioning he totally falls apart.. ?
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QksgmjjvRjw
    
    This is the hearsay chain most like what we heard at the hearings lol
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBtLPWeKbU
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:18am
    - Batman
      
      Well then, roll out Giuliani, Bolton, Pence, Pompeo, Mulvaney et al. And stop hiding behind exec privilege and actively stonewalling the process.
      
      Let’s get the truth that Trump’s backers claim to be so!
      
      Bet they won’t…. It might hurt Jim Jordan and Devin Nunes’ conspiratorial little brains.
      
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      November 15, 2019 1:16pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Do you have personal knowledge of this Batman?
        Conspiratorial my arse! Where are you getting your information from? Oh, that’s right, it came from the Washington Post?
        
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        November 15, 2019 2:16pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Nickc2 didn’t feel able to deny that Jordan and nunes have little brains…
        
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        November 15, 2019 3:51pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hmm, hostage repeats captor’s demands.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:43am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Lying Troll trolls
    
    14 3
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    November 15, 2019 9:36am
    - stephieboy
      
      Touchie, touchie..!
      
      2 18
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      November 15, 2019 10:12am
  - Ed Snack
    
    So, on what basis is Trump extorting them now ?
    
    Tell me mikey, is the Ukrainian extortion in the room with you, right now ? And do you need some extra foil for your head ?
    
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    November 15, 2019 12:24pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  If Prystaiko said otherwise it would not be good for Ukrainian chances of US support.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:49am
  - Simon
    
    What after the massive pay offs to the Bidens? According to MSM polling Biden is crushing Trump by 10 points. Apparently California is in the bag for old bleeding eye Biden for 2020.
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/the_noose_tightens.html
    
    Noose tightens. Lol. After watching the Taylor clown show yesterday Jussie Smollet wants his noose back.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:01am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “What after the massive pay offs to the Bidens? ..”
      
      ???
      
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      November 15, 2019 9:31am
      - All_on_Red
        
        $3.1 million
        
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        November 15, 2019 9:36am
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red,
        
        utter rot,
        
        “There’s no evidence for Trump’s Biden-Ukraine accusations. What really happened?”
        
        Trump’s claims appear to be at the center of a scandal involving a phone call with Ukraine’s president, in which Trump reportedly pressed for a probe of his political rival.
        
        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/there-s-no-evidence-trump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851
        
        Sigh!
        
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        November 15, 2019 10:16am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Ukraine DOJ has released Bank Statements showing the payments. Those payments of $85,000 a month add up.
        The Bidens dont deny the payments either.
        Another day where Stephie shows how wrong and ignorant he is.
        You should stop sighing so much. Get some oxygen into that tiny mind of yours.
        
        LOL
        
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        November 15, 2019 1:29pm
  - trout
    
    Devon Nunes (who appears to be one of the ‘good guys’; credible and humble) gives an excellent summary of the attempts by the Democratic party to unseat an elected President; impeachment was their objective even before the election if Trump won. Power at any price.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7igV2E4rYxU
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:09am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      But how is the lawsuit against Devin Nunes’ Cow getting on?
      
      1 20
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      November 15, 2019 9:38am
    - Batman
      
      The only way to describe Nunes’ statement is “crazy shit”
      
      But it computes for anyone who watches Hannity, such is the intellectual rigor involved in that show.
      
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      November 15, 2019 1:18pm
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Meanwhile the SHIFF SHOW carries on today. Expect the former Ambassador to Ukraine to “cry” once again because she was legitimately removed by a new administration.
        Can’t wait for Jordan and Ratcliffe taking her to task over her previous ‘Star Chamber’ testimony.
        #SameShiffDifferentDay
        
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        November 15, 2019 6:07pm
- Billy Collins
  
  A guy says another guy only just recently told him that he suddenly remembers several months ago that he sat next to another guy who was on the phone with Trump, and is absolutely sure he heard Trump, from on the other end of the phone, said the word “investigations”.
  
  This is the Dems star witness’s so-called bombshell claim…
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:27am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night.’
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:38am
    - Fletch
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBtLPWeKbU
      
      3 6
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      November 15, 2019 10:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’m sure everything will be cleared up when Trump, Sondland, Mulvaney, Bolton and Giuliani provide their first-hand testimony.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:40am
    - Michael
      
      I wouldn’t take the stand before crooks like the Dems.
      
      6 2
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      November 15, 2019 11:10am
      - stephieboy
        
        But would be happy to take the stand before the aforementiioned ?
        
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        November 15, 2019 11:43am
      - Batman
        
        How about in front of their beloved GOP colleagues?
        
        Bi-partisan committee etc…
        
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        November 15, 2019 1:19pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      We already have the conversation transcript, and Sondland has given testimony. Now we have unsolicited testimony from the Ukrainian Foreign Minister, no pressure.
      
      Hey, just out of interest, why do you think that Eric Ciamarella (the alleged leaker aka whistleblower) was chairing a meeting in early 2016 in which the demand from the US (and only the US) for the head prosecutor in Ukraine to be fired was first aired ? And right at the time that prosecutor was sequestering property from the ultimate owner of Burisma on suspicion of money laundering and when he was seeking interviews with Hunter Biden and Devon Archer in regard to that laundering. I can’t imagine any links, can you ?
      
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      November 15, 2019 12:30pm
      - Batman
        
        You mean no pressure aside from the direct pressure on Zelensky’s aides from Giuliani and co, to the point that they had a CNN interview set up for 13 September to announce the investigations, in order to free up the aide they were being blackmailed for?
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:42pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You are so ignorant Batman
        The Ukrainians never knew the Aid was held up.
        The Ukrainians reached out and were happy to talk to Guiliani.
        
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        November 15, 2019 9:30pm
    - Billy Collins
      
      I thought the transcript already cleared everything up?
      
      Even after 3 years of next things, I’m sure the next thing will do it. And if not the next thing, then definitely the next next thing…
      
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      November 15, 2019 12:43pm
  - Paulus
    
    Remember Polosi never really wanted this – she knows more than she is letting on – just letting the trolls go.
    May not go well for the Dems !
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:23pm
    - MCos
      
      It’s obvious why Pelosi didn’t want this to go ahead, and probably still doesn’t.
      Unless Trump is removed, or at least badly compromised, he wins.
      For a start the people who will decide who wins the next election are only vaguely interested in what some unknown Ambassadors are talking about.
      The potential real show stoppers are refusing to front up.
      Then, as has been shown many times already, Trump is impervious to pretty much any retribution for wrongdoing. So, if it’s proven that he strong armed Zelensky for political gain his supporters won’t give a toss.
      He is to the GOP what Keith Moon was to Who fans.
      
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      November 15, 2019 2:27pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        What wrongdoing?
        How many times does it take for Zelensky and his staff to say no pressure, no demands made for it to be fine?
        Oh and latest comments from Pelosi belie your theories.
        
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        November 15, 2019 9:27pm
- John Warren
  
  Have a look at this: https://www.facebook.com/RantNationBlazeTV/videos/2482528181989132/. Apologies, I don’t know how to turn it into a hyperlink.
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:00am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    LOL
    
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    November 15, 2019 8:16pm
G152

One council wants to cut down ‘exotics’ and replace them with native species.
Tugger wants to plant a billion ‘exotics’ without the supporting structures in place.
If he plants Kauri he’ll have a couple of hundred years to get the cuzzies off the couch and ready for the work…
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November 15, 2019 8:16am
hullkiwi

Seems the Peters, Trotman, Jones and Henry families are not shy of attempting to avail themselves of taxpayer money (via the 1billion tree fund and the PGF) to fund their business enterprises.

Good work Chris Bishop, Paul Goldsmith and RNZ.

Please check http://www.rnz.co.nz
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November 15, 2019 8:16am
Jade Warrior

Last night at the Vodafone music awards, both Grant and Jacinda received a reality check. When Grant was introduced, he was trying to rev up the audience to cheer and acknowledge him, but to no avail. The crowd was uninterested.

But it got worse when the PM was introduced. Again, the lack of audience acclaim was almost deafening. Jacinda continued to keep smiling of course but this is not a good sign. The PM’s nimbus is wearing distinctly thin …
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November 15, 2019 8:19am
- kevn
  
  @Jade… But, but they (at the Voda awards) would be her ‘target’ audience surely? Oh dear…
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’d think so, given her past DJ experience, her unfailing and unwavering support of the artist who wrote a song with the lyrics “That’s why I’m going to kill the Prime Minister” (the previous PM, not Ardern), and her general getting down with the “yoof market”.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:51am
    - srylands
      
      “her unfailing and unwavering support of the artist who wrote a song with the lyrics “That’s why I’m going to kill the Prime Minister” ”
      
      Is there any evidence that she did support that ‘artist’?
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:04am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Is there any evidence she did not support Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kaiser Wilhelm and Jack the Ripper?
        
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        November 15, 2019 10:37am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Sorry mikey, just channeling the leftist demands that people prove themselves innocent. I mean, Jacinda has been accused of those things and none of them have actually been disproved.
        
        Also channeling Alinsky, you know, make them accountable to the rules they set themselves ?
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:34pm
    - sooty
      
      Not enough koha obversely!
      “Pay me some more money, bitch!”
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:09am
    - Michael
      
      she is 38 for god’s sake.
      She is an old…..
      
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      November 15, 2019 11:11am
      - sooty
        
        Saggy and baggy!
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:07pm
- brett68
  
  The youth vote is deserting her, just have to have a read of reddit.
  
  She and labour are considered sellouts and frauds, they won’t be voting National though.
  
  My guess is they probably won’t bother voting in the next election.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:40am
  - Michael
    
    David Seymour for the yoof vote!
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:12am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Her ‘nimbus’ was never as thick as she is
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:12am
Yvette

Matua mouth

Then Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy responded to an anti-Semitic speech at an Auckland mosque –
The Islamic Ahlulbyt Foundation Centre, which hosted the event at which the cleric, Hojatoleslam Shafie, New Zealand based Iranian diplomat Hormoz Ghahremani and others spoke, need to let the rest of us know whether they will continue to tolerate this kind of hateful korero at their events. – Susan Devoy [1]

The smearing of Maori and their language in this incident by using te reo to coin the term “hateful korero” for “hate speech”, when Maori had nothing to do with the issue, is surely “casual Maorification” where people spurred by political correctness drop such Maori words in conversation without regard to context – obviously, for what other acceptable explanation is there?

Although he lauds himself as Champion of the Regions, and takes pride is a seeming self-ingratiating “oratory”, like a Davy Crockett gone to Washington, backwoods politician, it is harder to try to understand Shane Jones describing yesterday’s farming protesters – “Those attitudes, it’s ngati-redneck-ery. If you want to influence policy and you want to work with the Government, then don’t come in such a vitriolic, insulting way.”

Like the “hateful korero” incident, just how predominant in the farming protest gathering were Maori, and how appreciative were any of being associated with redneckery, or being vitriolic or insulting?

But, what would be “hate korero” – if it existed?
Regarding the Haumaha Inquiry, Mr Shane Jones says, “… the latest attack from National Party spokesperson Chris Bishop, that New Zealand First shouldn’t be involved in picking a replacement for the inquiry because MP Fletcher Tabuteau comes from the same hapu as Mr Haumaha, is a new low for politics.
“Mr Bishop came from the tobacco industry so he’s a tough character and I’m sure he suffered no moral misgivings about his old industry, the tobacco industry, which has killed so many Māori women. So we’re dealing with a new level of vilification, but one or three of us in parliament are made of sterner stuff than that and what goes around comes around,” Mr Jones says.

To use Jones own words, are we “dealing with a new level of vilification”?
His?

As for Jones? It is unlikely anything will bring him to reasonable heel, but he may succeed in bringing New Zealanders together in a way he does not expect – to reject outright the vileness of his views. – Peter Dunne [3]

Coca-Cola’s use of Māori words a ‘real tragedy’ – health expert.
Yeah? – if so, it’s not the only one.

[1] https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/31-10-2017/this-is-who-we-do-not-want-to-ever-become-dame-susan-devoy-on-anti-semitism-in-new-zealand/
[2] https://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_news/MTk4MjE=/National%20News/Vilification,-National-strategy-in-Haumaha-inquiry
[3] https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/15/908877/we-dont-need-more-intolerance-and-political-scapegoating
__________
Matua Shane – (“as he likes to call himself” – Bryce Edwards) Matua might mean ‘paternal’ or ‘elder’, which may be a term others bestow on you, rather than you acclaim yourself to be, and that may hang on what degree of wisdom you display, or not?
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November 15, 2019 8:22am
- kevn
  
  @Yvette…. Nice work.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:40am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Jones is a complete cock
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:50am
hullkiwi

Last night’s music awards, the lead of the Avondale Bowling Club couldn’t resist making a political comment aimed at St Jacinda (seated in the audience) about Ihimatau. When will someone tell “artists” to keep their opinions to themselves, because many of them (as in this case are way out of their depth!
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November 15, 2019 8:24am
Maggie Pie

A friend of my partner tweets:

“On my way to Greta’s protest”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJV_9tWW4AAV7lQ?format=jpg&name=small
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November 15, 2019 8:28am
- sooty
  
  Yer, right on!
  But the exhaust should come out the left hand side to give road cyclist the full benefit!
  Choke on that maggot!
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:14am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The vileness and craziness that infects many Trump’s supporters includes this Reverend ,

Introducing Pastor Wiles.

“Rick Wiles says ‘veterans, cowboys and mountain men’ will bring ‘violence to America’ if the president is impeached ”

President Donald Trump’s supporters will “hunt down” Democrats and bring “violence to America” once the president leaves office, according to right-wing Christian pastor and conspiracy theorist Rick Wiles.
On his apocalyptic TruNews programme, captured by Right Wing Watch, Mr Wiles said the president’s impeachment or “however he leaves” office will inspire “veterans, cowboys, mountain men” and “guys that know how to fight” to bring “violence to America” by hunting down Mr Trump’s political enemies.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-supporters-rick-wiles-pastor-impeachment-democrats-a9170141.html%3famp
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November 15, 2019 8:35am
- Than
  
  What’s going to happen when Trump is required to leave office (whether by impeachment, the ballot box in 2020, or reaching the end of his second term) is actually mildly concerning.
  
  I just can’t see Orange Donny meekly leaving quietly. Especially since it means the executive privilege he has leaned on so heavily in his defense suddenly ends, and prosecution on a whole range of things becomes possible. Unlike the Trumpistas “lock her up” chants against Hillary (which are based on nothing the fringe conspiracy theories), the crowd’s chants of “lock him up” at the Astros-Nationals game is very much grounded in reality.
  
  Quite what Donny will do when his time is up, I’m not sure. But I just don’t see him leaving peacefully.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:47am
  - fernglas
    
    Maybe he’ll insist on a caretaker job as speaker until he can go for another two terms?
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:02am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      There’s plenty of time before 2025 for Trump to secure reversal of the 22nd Amendment and thus allow him to be re-elected for a third (or more) term.
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:41am
      - Than
        
        Thankfully he doesn’t have anywhere remotely near the support to pass or repeal constitutional amendments. The constitution may work to Donny’s advantage in many ways (the electoral college, appointment of justices, requiring a supermajority to impeach), but in this case it pretty solidly shuts him down.
        
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        November 15, 2019 10:50am
    - Than
      
      The 22nd Amendment limits any individual to 2 terms as president. Not 2 consecutive terms and allowing for more after a break – two lifetime total.
      
      About the only path Trump would have to remain in the White House (or close enough) after 2024 would be to have a loyal puppet (Pence or one of his children, say) stand and win. He could be the power behind the throne (and his puppet could protect him using presidential pardons) but not actually be president.
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:46am
      - rangitoto
        
        Just remove or amend the 22nd. Shouldn’t apply to the greatest US president of all time.
        
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        November 15, 2019 11:27am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Loyal puppet, like HRC following Obama ?
        
        Interestingly enough I don’t see any other Republican figure who could easily command the “Trump Coalition” of voters – and I think that is the Democrat thinking as well. Get rid of Trump and they stand a far better chance of regaining the Whitehouse.
        
        Assuming Trump wins in 2020, they will have to groom someone to be the follow on, or to build a new voter block. Pence won’t run in 2025, he’ll be too old for a start and he can’t command Trump’s level of support. Don Jr, maybe, but he’d need a hell of a lot more exposure and preparation. Someone like Nikki Haley is far more likely a candidate, and there are others.
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:49pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Pence is 60. If he ran in 2024, was elected and served two full terms, he’d still be younger when he left office than Trump is today. But, more importantly, he lacks Trump’s health, vigour, and great and unmatched wisdom.
        
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        November 15, 2019 1:13pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Ho hum, a lot of people said the same about Obama, and to quite a few people’s surprise, that proto-fascist left meekly enough (but with a very sour look on his face).
    
    I think you underestimate the strength of US democracy. If Trump were to refuse to leave office or try illegitimately to run for a third term, he would lose probably 90% of his support base very rapidly. That includes if he is voted out in 2020, leaves in 2025, or is lawfully impeached and convicted and removed from office. I discount the 25th amendment route as Trump himself can simply announce that he is fit to resume office and do so, so a complete impasse.
    
    I don’t think though that it would be so simple if the perception was that a coup had succeeded in removing him, as that would be seen as illegitimate.
    
    As it stands, he’d only be removed via impeachment if 17 GOP senators vote against him, and that is, at this stage, pretty unlikely. He may lose in 2020, but several Democrat politicians (including AOC) have admitted in public that impeachment is being deployed because they are seriously concerned that no Democrat can beat Trump in 2020.
    
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    November 15, 2019 12:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That’s when he will sue all those hookers and arsewipes who made false claims. He has already said it would be fun.
    Oh, it will be game on with the media as well – he will take them to the cleaners once he does not have to be POTUS
    
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    November 15, 2019 2:32pm
- chaos
  
  And yet a trump supporter won’t go and perv at young Muslim girls like you then post on kiwiblog about how they looked and their breasts. You are a sick ….. go look at the protest signs from the other to see what
  
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  November 15, 2019 12:25pm
Brian McDonald

Nothing to do with the forestry funding allegations above but Shane Jones must be getting near the time when he needs a good kick to his fat butt to help him remember he is a servant of the people – not the other way around.
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November 15, 2019 8:36am
- BobbyS
  
  His behavior of late (well most of the time) is appalling. He is behaving like an arrogant, racist twat
  Why is the media not calling him out for the poor attitude?
  Why does the media not challenge him or Whiskey Winnie? They seem to get a free ride from being slated like others invariably do
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:42am
  - G152
    
    Tugger isn’t acting.
    He is an arrogant ignorant twat, always has been and will always be
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:58am
  - Paulus
    
    ‘Cos he and Peters have a deal from our Cinderella so he knows he can do and say whatever he wants.
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:27pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  Shane Jones’ behaviour will appal most Kiwis. But there will be at least 5% who think he’s great, because he shakes things up and annoys all those boring straight lace types. He knows that, and that’s why he behaves as he does.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:46am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Peter Dunne’s take in a very good opinion piece where he’s not hiding behind the ‘word’ opinion to defame somebody. I don’t agree with the general notion that every generation has the belief that their parents had things easier than they – there was little easy about 2 World Wars and their aftermath.
    He does however call out Jones style of politics. His speaking in Maori to protestors yesterday show his personality is split more than twice, as have his earlier ‘dog whistling’ racist comments.
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/we-dont-need-more-intolerance-and-political-scapegoating/ar-BBWL1BH?ocid=spartandhp
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:10am
    - Prince
      
      That comment from Dunne is ridiculous. Nobody born 1945-1960 believed their parents had it easier, going through two wars and a massive Depression, and losing parents and siblings in battle and epidemics.
      
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      November 15, 2019 9:32am
- krazykiwi
  
  He’s a hubris-filled bully, impervious to any moral or ethical guidance. People like Jones are the reason so few decent NZers pursue politics.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:49am
- John Warren
  
  This’ll be the fat Shane Jones who, quite clearly rattled by the boos of the “rednecks”, futilely tried to drown them out with a ragged rendition of tutira mai nga iwi? It seemed to me like the equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears, screwing his eyes shut, and shouting “I can’t hear you! I can’t hear you!”
  
  Poor Shanesy, he doesn’t take criticism very well at all. A magnificent, stately legend in his own mind, direct confrontation seems to produce some kind of divide by zero error in his teensy mental CPU, resulting in a core meltdown and an explosion of bellicosity.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  He’s had a few of those already from the PM, but he knows they are ineffective, because she doesn’t really have any power over him. Only Winston Peters does.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:52am
  - sooty
    
    Yer, but all she does is pout her lips and stamp her feet and gather up her crayons and storm off.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:19am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    And hopefully the people
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:31pm
Happychappy

Wow I bet Winston Peters never thought he would have three pieces of bad press hit the Headlines in one week that could do all sorts of damage to the NZ First ambitions. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285201
First we had his libel case on the two National MP’s not going exactly to plan with admission from Peters they were no responsible for the Leak , then Shane Jones outburst on Farmers calling them Rednecks and now Chris Bishops revelation of a company owned by Brian Henry, Winston Peters and Jan Trotmanin Forestry hitting the headlines. Could this be the bugging of the end for NZ First.
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November 15, 2019 8:38am
- Michael
  
  I hope so
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:15am
Capricardo

Just heard Shane Jones being interviewed on Radio NZ
He denies any involvement in or knowledge of either case and said it was all done by his officials!!
Well worth a listen to this pompous self promoting puppet
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November 15, 2019 8:46am
Andrew Worth

Collins calling herself a “woman of colour”.
Obviously she was using the term incorrectly, “Person of colour” is intended to include everyone other than ethnic Europeans, if you’re ethnic Inuit, Chinese, Pacific Islander or African you can be a “person of colour”, but not if you’re ethnic European, it’s a term based on anti-white identity politics created by those with racist and divisive motivations.
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November 15, 2019 8:47am
- srylands
  
  That seems odd.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:50am
- peterwn
  
  She is colourful. Surely that is sufficient.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:53am
  - sooty
    
    Yes, I think she dresses lovely!
    Fitting for any occasion. Not like someone I could mention, who looks down right dowdy!
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:24am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Get it right Andy -you’ll find Judy was referring to the frock she was wearing during QT yesterday, ya’ silly! 😀
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:59am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I believe that most Japanese (especially Japanese women) would be offended by being called “people of color.”
  
  Japanese in Auckland take it as a form of pride that Japanese (like German or French) is not typically included in Auckland Council multi-lingual publications. It makes Japanese feel like they are truly members of a first-world country.
  
  It’s okay not to be colored.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:00am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Odakyu-sen, it is more likley to do with the fact that compared to Chinese or Koreans Japanese are relatively small in numbers !
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:54am
    - srylands
      
      No it really is not. I take it you have not spent much time in Japan?
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:06am
    - John Warren
      
      Stephie-fool, have you ever noticed, or wondered why, none of those tens of thousands of secondhand Japanese cars pouring into the country have Japanese badges?
      
      Didn’t think so. You know nothing about the Japanese. Best sometimes just to shut your mouth and be thought a fuckwit than open it and remove all doubt.
      
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      November 15, 2019 11:08am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Cont.
    
    Northeast Asian women (Eastern China, Korea, Japan) spend a good deal of time keeping their skin as white as possible. This is why you will see Chinese ladies on the streets of Auckland with wide-brimmed hats, parasols, arm coverings and gloves in the UV-rich Auckland summer.
    
    To have a tan means you are a peasant who works in the fields. This will not do.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:15am
    - curry4me
      
      A lot of women in Korea use umbrellas primarily to keep the sun off them so they don’t look like peasants. That’s why they were invented in the first place.
      
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      November 15, 2019 11:57am
  - Jules99
    
    Interesting – I didn’t know that. It makes sense. They are smart people.
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:33pm
- rouppe
  
  It’s only used to refer to those other than ethnic Europeans if we allow it.
  
  Several questions:
  1) is white not a colour?
  2) are white people not allowed to oppose female genital mutilation?
  3) can you really say now that ethnic Europeans are only white given the several generations of – for example – Algerians who were born, grew up and had their own children in France?
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:04am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    rouppe, a wee bit super, super sesnitive. Otherwise silly white genocide stuff!
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:39am
    - rouppe
      
      Nah. In the past (the royal) we used to simply ignore such remarks as the ramblings of deranged people.
      
      They’re still deranged but now seem to have sufficient traction as to restrict my right to say what I think.
      
      It’s simply the start of the push back.
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:52am
- tf78
  
  So, if you have a “white” car – what colour should it be called now?
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:09am
  - ldypen
    
    I think you would be driving an “Alt Right Racist Bastard” coloured car.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:48am
    - sooty
      
      Bugger, mine is red. Just like me!
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:26am
  - srylands
    
    I have a black car.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:07am
    - tf78
      
      syrlands #METOO
      
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      November 15, 2019 10:43am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Silver and “electric” blue, not sure that either qualifies as a “vehicle of colour” under modern standards.
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:52pm
- Prince
  
  Notice the ultra-extreme offence on Twitter to anything Collins or Bennett have to say.
  More that a trace of sexism there I believe.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:35am
- stephieboy
  
  “A woman of colour” ?
  
  Used correctly ,
  
  My dictionary,
  
  “.. features that lend a particularly interesting quality to something: a town full of colour and character.”
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:37am
- Jack5
  
  Andrew Worth, I suggest that you are technically wrong about Judith Collins’s remark about her being a “woman of colour”. And so were the woke members of Chapman’s Panel on Red Radio this afternoon when discussing Collins’s tweet, which read:
  
  “MPs band together for female genital mutilation ban. I am a woman of colour – the colour white – and I fully support a ban on this mutilation inflicted on women.”
  
  MSN News reports the tweet was deleted fairly quickly.
  
  There is discussion and argument about whether white is, or is not, a colour.
  
  You can reasonably argue that white is not a colour only if you accept that black also is not a colour.
  
  Scientists regard a colour as visible light with a specific wave length. White contains all wave lengths of visible light, and black is the absence of visible light.
  
  If you are from the paint industry, or, say, the food industry, you would likely regard white as a complex colour.
  
  It’s not ridiculous to regard white as a colour. If you accept it is, then it follows that white-skinned folk are coloured people.
  
  Skin colour is a questionable way of classifying races. I have heard a pale northern Chinese proclaim to a mixed group: “Europeans are not white, they are pink – we are white”.
  
  I wish Judith Collins had stood her ground on this matter. She is not racist: she has married a man who is ethnically Chinese-Tongan.
  
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  November 15, 2019 5:03pm
  - Andrew Worth
    
    Jack5, it’s bizarre that you should think that the term “woman of colour”, given the context, is somehow a reference to colours of the spectrum.
    
    Then you go on to proclaim that Judith Collins is not a racist, who suggested she was? Certainly not I.
    
    Your entire comment reads as an attempt to refute points that I have not made, suggested or implied.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:57pm
Rodney Randall

Hillary Exton
Acting Chief Allied Health Professions Officer Ministry of Health. (Scottish import Marxist Hack bureaucrat former physio)

Anaethetic Technicians with APC at 31st March 2019.

ethnic group headcount %

Asian Indian 59. 7.3%
european 688. 85.7%
Maori 31. 3.9%
Pacific 25. 3.1%
ministry of health stats.

“this is a massive problem and must be fixed. we need more DIVERSITY.”

What is bad? how is this a problem? Do european descendant anaethetists administer propofol any differently to patients of different ethnic groups?

No White people BAD.

the pms chief science advisor recently pointed to a picture of 5 white male antarctic scientists and said to the audience “What is wrong with this picture? They are all white and this must change”

of course i am prob suffering from white fragility:)

These bureaucratic race baiters are free to say what they want.

It never fails to amaze me how fucking gutless audience participants are when they sit in silence allowing these poisoness foreign imports to spout off vile toxic racist woke garbage.
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November 15, 2019 8:55am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Rodney Randell, go and visit your Doctor!
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:40am
  - chaos
    
    he doesn’t need to go and see a doctor, it’s not him perving at young Muslim children.
    
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    November 15, 2019 4:41pm
- John Warren
  
  You’ll notice how these people are usually self-flagellating, self-loathing, guilt-ridden liberal white westerners themselves.
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:12am
  - Rodney Randall
    
    Exactly.
    
    This divisive, intersectional rot, permeates every level of government and continues to spread like a virus.
    
    People sit in silence, too scared to challenge the racist rhetoric for fear of being non personed in the work place and eventually forced to leave.
    
    EVIL
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:59am
- Michael
  
  white is 75% of nation so stands to reason they will always out number others generally.
  that will change by job geograph or industry….
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:17am
- Ed Snack
  
  Must really hate Antarctica then, it’s damn white everywhere there !
  
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  November 15, 2019 12:54pm
toby1845

So, I took a phone call last night from a ‘research student’ from Massey University, soliciting a contribution to the Massey Foundation. I took great delight in telling her that I wouldn’t give a single to Massey until they dumped their imposter Vice Chancellor and sorted out their fascist approach to free speech.

I got the distinct impression that I wasn’t te first person to have responded thus.
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November 15, 2019 8:55am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  No you weren’t the first.
  That’s what I told them months ago.
  
  You won’t be the last either.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:45am
Tarquin North

In this day and age you can identify as whatever you want. She can legitimately call herself a Maori if she wants so why shouldn’t she call herself a woman of colour? It’s hard being super woke these days.
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November 15, 2019 9:05am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Funny you should say that. I happen to be a man who identifies as a woman, who then identifies as a man.
  
  That makes me double-woke and means I can say whatever I like and everyone else has to suck it up, and you can’t oppress me 🙂
  
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  November 15, 2019 1:15pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “I happen to be a man who identifies as a woman, who then identifies as a man.”
    
    Sounds doubleplusgood to me…
    
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    November 15, 2019 3:11pm
Straight arrow

Misleading information from Deloitte about value of “space economy” which breakfast TV1 was playing-up this morning.

They say in a new report that the sector is worth $1.7 billion to NZ economy, broken down into: Manufacturing $247m; Space operations $150m; Government $10m; R&D $119m; Ancillary services $221m; Space applications $1007m (1.007 billion). In comparison, Australia (2016) $3.5-$4.5b, so NZ spends about 40% of what Australia does? Does not pass sniff test.

Space applications (at $1 billion, over half total spend) seems to be any use of data from a satellite, including Sky TV, ISPs, agricultural applications and GPS-use applications. Ancillary services ($221m) is, from looking at descriptions, a bit vague and seems to be more IT and support services such as relationship building, insurance and finance.
Research and development is fairly wide as well, and description indicates data use for astronomy and astrophysics through to the application and use of space data such as Earth Observation.

The definition used (and to be fair to Deloitte, is OECD’s) seems to find any reason, however tenuous, to link some activity to “space economy”. Figure that average person would equate to the industry is more like $400 million. Report was prepared for MBIE.
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November 15, 2019 9:06am
dave_c_

Jones ! You’re a bully – pull your head in.
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November 15, 2019 9:09am
- sooty
  
  I would have said “pull your head out of your arse.”
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:30am
lastmanstanding

So far I havent seen any definitive studies on how much “fixing” Climate Change is going to cost NZ households.

Any additional taxes levies call it what you will imposed on businesses will be past on in increasing prices. This will in addition to any direct taxes or levies.

A Government will need to adjust upwards benefits including Super WWFs and other payments to compensate for the increases.

So the cost will fall on households who dont receive direct Government handouts.

I say the reason we havent seen any numbers if because they are horrendous and political parties on all sides know they will be wiped out when the truth is known.
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November 15, 2019 9:20am
- Straight arrow
  
  Based on Ministry of Environment figures, per capita income would drop by 60% in 2050 to get to zero carbon by that date.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:31am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Thanks for that. A big price to pay……………..especially if the (cough)science turns out to be wrong.
    
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    November 15, 2019 9:45am
- krazykiwi
  
  The target is wholly impossible without have civilization revert to cave-dwelling status.
  
  This entire fiasco is a gloablist socialist strategy to control the means of sustaining life. That’s what energy is.
  
  Never before, in the field of human subservience, has so much been lied about, to so many, for so long.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:59am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Only a politician would say that “the science is settled.” A scientist would know better than to say such a things.
  
  When scientists refuse to release their raw data, or share e-mails discussing ways to suppress some hypothesis, or when institutions de-fund a scientist for not having the preferred opinion, then you know something of a political (not scientific) nature is at work.
  
  It’s not what they say that concerns me, but rather their attempts to erase, modify, cover-up and suppress that raises my suspicions.
  
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  November 15, 2019 3:20pm
Maggie Pie

Golriz is, “…thrilled but exhausted”

From what?

https://twitter.com/golrizghahraman/status/1194916128063049729
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November 15, 2019 9:23am
- rouppe
  
  Who is it?
  
  Would seem to be some Manus Island ex-pat?
  
  10 0
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  November 15, 2019 9:40am
- MCos
  
  Behrouz Boochani is ‘thrilled and exhausted and free’
  
  3 0
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  November 15, 2019 9:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Who ?
    
    4 0
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    November 15, 2019 1:37pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Maggie Pie, share with us about your “…thrilled but exhausted” experiences?
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:44am
  - sooty
    
    “Pervert”
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:31am
  - Nostradamus
    
    Stephieboy:
    
    “share with us about your “…thrilled but exhausted” experiences?”
    
    Now might be a good time to stop typing one-handed comments and head off to St Lukes for a “coffee”!
    
    24 1
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    November 15, 2019 10:34am
  - Michael
    
    Did you read this double entendre DPF?
    
    How long are you going to allow this sexual innuendo attacks and stalking to go on?
    
    Please don’t post anything on violence against women until you do deal to this.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:20am
  - chaos
    
    Unlike you she has experiences, she doesn’t go and watch young Muslim children then post about them on here.
    
    12 1
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    November 15, 2019 12:23pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    How creepy.
    
    12 1
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    November 15, 2019 1:36pm
Yvette

• Maria Dew QC said she wanted to look at the substance of the [Labour sex assault] complaints and not the Labour Party processes, Ardern said. … Ardern has said that the Dew review, expected to report directly to Ardern in three weeks, would get to the bottom of it. – Herald September 16
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12268112

• Maria Dew needs another month – Jacinda Ardern, Mike Hosking’s show, October 15

So, today?
But meanwhile what can be the outcome of Dew’s report and what can Ardern do with it?

Yes, there was a serious sexual assault, which should now be put in the hands of the Police to investigate, and all the inquiries by Labour have just delayed that happening, probably to the detriment of evidence?

No, there was no assault, so the Police should investigate a case of mis-information, mischief and considerable unnecessary public disquiet, again with a possible Labour conflict of interests.
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November 15, 2019 9:33am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “serious sexual assualt ” ?
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:45am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Are you not aware of the allegation that a woman was raped by the man in question stephie? Best you read this then…
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/unsponsored/09-09-2019/a-labour-volunteer-alleged-violent-sexual-assault-by-a-senior-staffer-this-is-her-story/
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:06am
  - softail 1450
    
    septicboy, you are a truly uninformed fuckwit septic if you don’t know about the violent digital rape this labour pervert carried out on this young girl,fuck off you arsehole…
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:32pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Yes, you fucked up piece of shit. Making light of rape is abhorrent. Other people are absolutely correct in their assessment of you as a perverted, dimwitted, miscreant. I am generally against DPF banning individuals as I believe in free speech, but in your case, I would make an exception.
    
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    November 15, 2019 7:51pm
- Prince
  
  So three months after Ardern was made aware of the violent assault, and four months after the rest of New Zealand was aware of it, the Government, Labour or Ardern has still not asked Police to investigate.
  I guess it is different when the alleged assailant works in your office.
  
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  November 15, 2019 9:50am
  - sooty
    
    Sh’s trying to drag it out till after the Labour conferance, because she’s going to resign! It wont matter after that!
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:33am
softail 1450

FFS, So 66% of this mythical billion trees is expected to be planted on marginal Maori land ,WTF is going on in our country ?
This is closing the gaps back on the front burner if 15 % of the population is getting 66% of the dough from the bloated blowhard Jones for tree planting…
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November 15, 2019 9:37am
- Yvette
  
  Softail, where did you get your figures please?
  
  In a Cabinet paper presented last August … Shane Jones said between 570m and 770m trees would come from commercial planting and replanting.
  “For example, if the recent 95 per cent replanting rate was maintained over the next decade, this would equate to 770m trees.” [1]
  
  Therefore Shane needs plant only 23% of the billion trees.
  So of the 66% you mention to be planted on marginal Maori land, if all of Shane’s trees were planted on such Maori land, it would still leave 43% for commercial Forestry to be on Maori land, which I don’t think is happening. Who knows?
  
  [1] https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/shane-jones-government-on-track-to-meet-one-billion-trees-goal/
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:00am
  - softail 1450
    
    Yvette ,LOL, Shane himself said it ,he said they would be “planted in natives” ha ,ha ,he,he, I’d love to see how thats done .
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:28pm
- MCos
  
  The trees are going to be planted somewhere.
  According to the counter on the right side of this very page planting is already lagging behind.
  According to some distressed cockies kicking up quite a fuss a parliament yesterday some perfectly good farmland is being converted to forestry.
  Are you suggesting that because Shane Jones is Māori there’s a whiff of corruption in the air?
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:01am
  - sooty
    
    If you don’t plant them.
    You have to mulch them!
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:34am
- Straight arrow
  
  My understanding is it was 66% native trees, not land.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:26am
Cobolt24

A leaked Greens discussion document reveals the party is gearing up to ditch its support of the self-imposed Government spending and borrowing rules.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/leaked-document-shows-greens-discussing-scrapping-spending-limit-policy
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November 15, 2019 9:41am
Sam Hill

Rumour has it that NZ First are planning to reverse their position on the Maori seats. Kelvin Davis is going to stand aside in Te Tai Tokerau, allowing Shane Jones to attempt to win the seat and ensure NZ First remain in Parliament.
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November 15, 2019 9:41am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Shane Jones has tried to win a Maori seat before, and failed. He stood in Tāmaki Makaurau in 2011, and lost to Dr Pita Sharples by nearly 1000 votes.
  
  Previously to that, he lost the Northland seat twice, and of course stood in Whangarei in 2017, where he came third behind the Labour candidate. The elected MP, Shane Reti of National, led Jones by more than 11,000 votes.
  
  Jones is unlikely to ever win an electorate contest, because that requires absolute commitment, a strong work ethic, and the ability to build a formidable team.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:24am
Swifty

Rips off old ladies for a living:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285272

Vile.
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November 15, 2019 9:54am
- MCos
  
  Too many New Zealanders are, unfortunately, too trusting.
  My wife, who is Thai, trusts nobody when it comes to money and I can see why.
  A friend of hers who she’d known for maybe thirty years borrowed B10,000 ($500) a couple of years ago. Never saw her or the money again. Even changed phone numbers, Facebook, every point of contact.
  For years before that she’d told me never to lend money to a Thai. It was like ‘Here, I’ll show you what I mean’
  She always checks receipts. We went back to the local supermarket the other day and pointed out they’d overcharged for some bananas.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:46am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    “We went back …. and pointed out they’d overcharged for some bananas”
    
    LOL!! Sounds like a pain in the arse to me 😀
    
    5 2
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    November 15, 2019 1:20pm
    - MCos
      
      You too
      
      2 2
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      November 15, 2019 2:45pm
  - Swifty
    
    The only Thai you trust is the one round your neck.
    
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    November 15, 2019 3:24pm
DigNap15

Donald Trump is going to romp home in 2020.
Biden could win California and New York by 20 million votes, but that does not matter as they are only two electoral college votes.
Trump is winning in all the blue collar worker patriot states who care about America!
Trump fill stadiums, Biden fills small office rooms
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November 15, 2019 10:18am
- Rich Prick
  
  Biden’s rallies are so intimate everyone gets sniffed.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:42am
- mikenmildagain
  
  California has 55 electoral college votes; New York has 29.
  
  4 12
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  November 15, 2019 10:53am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    This is true. However, there is a total of 538 electoral college votes so while 84 is 15.6%, it won’t decide the election.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:17am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Just correcting DigNap15’s mistake. You’re welcome.
      
      3 9
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      November 15, 2019 11:36am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Mikey’s right, though I suspect that DigiNap15 meant “only two states…”
        
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        November 15, 2019 12:57pm
  - DigNap15
    
    Yes I got the exact numbers wrong, but you all got the gist of my comment.
    
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    November 15, 2019 8:50pm
krazykiwi

I smell a virtue signalling photo-op for our part time PM

Behrouz Boochani leaves Manus Island after six years, lands in [Christchurch]. The Kurdish Iranian writer, held in PNG since 2013, says he may seek asylum in New Zealand or the US.
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November 15, 2019 10:23am
- sooty
  
  No, she’s out of luck there.
  Golly G claimed him as he got off the plane!
  Dollar down and too bloody late!
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:38am
  - Nostradamus
    
    Yes, as Sooty notes, the article states:
    
    Boochani was met at the airport by Green MP Golriz Ghahraman, who tweeted that Boochani was “thrilled and exhausted and free”.
    
    It makes a change from photo-ops with a “laughing genocidaire“, I suppose.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:59am
    - stephieboy
      
      Even Adolf Eichmann and other Nazis were entitled to defence lawyers,
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Servatius
      
      Even here,
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKiqHpbFz68
      
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      November 15, 2019 11:57am
    - artemisia
      
      ”Mr Patchell said the visa was issued because officials were satisfied Boochani “genuinely intends a temporary stay in New Zealand”.”
      
      He has a one month visa and must leave before it expires. ‘Genuinely intends a temp stay’ doesn’t stop him applying for asylum though, but if he does Australia will be extremely grumpy.
      
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      November 15, 2019 6:20pm
- MCos
  
  As far as I’m concerned he can stay in NZ as long as he likes.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:50am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    As far as I’m concerned you can go to Shitholistan for as long as you like.
    
    16 2
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    November 15, 2019 12:36pm
    - MCos
      
      My dear chap, I can’t help feeling you’ve got a bit of a chip on you shoulder
      
      2 8
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      November 15, 2019 1:00pm
  - Nermal
    
    Yes, just what New Zealand needs, more left wing author/poets on the public trough
    
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    November 15, 2019 3:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What will he possibly contribute to NZ?
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:58am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I don’t support wholesale immigration of the type advocated by Ghahraman and her ilk, but I do support asylum genuine cases. On the surface he appears to be a genuine candidate for political asylum. Of all ethnic groups the Kurds are one that stand out to me has having been persecuted and abused for too long.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:24am
    - Morrissey
      
      What about the Palestinians?
      
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      November 15, 2019 3:44pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    He’s a talented journalist and writer. I’m sure he can make a contribution.
    
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    November 15, 2019 11:39am
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Kieran Read’s moronic performance this morning on RNZ National
Kieran “Vulnerable” Read interviewed by Kathryn Read
RNZ National, 10:10 a.m., Friday 15 November 2019

Kieran Read used the puerile word “footy” several times during the interview. Is he afraid of, or incapable of using the word “football”? He also repeatedly used the word “group” instead of “team.”

It was interesting that Kathryn Ryan never challenged his curious use of language.

At the end, she noted that popular reaction to the semifinal loss to England had been surprisingly calm and mature. Read replied that the reason was simple: “We showed we were vulnerable.”

Kieran Read is carrying on a grievous tradition of meatheaded use of language….

https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/braindead-sports-announcers-are-insult.html

https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/10/that-dozy-old-all-black-coach-cant-even.html
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November 15, 2019 10:38am
- Batman
  
  Highly ironic coming from you. I highly doubt you’d meet their ‘no dickheads’ rule.
  
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  November 15, 2019 10:39am
  - Morrissey
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    ????
    
    There’s nothing more dickheaded, or disrespectful, than using a puerile word to describe the very sport you play.
    
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    November 15, 2019 10:41am
    - Batman
      
      The fact you think footy is a puerile word demonstrates the fact that, to use an actual puerile term, you are a knob end.
      
      22 3
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      November 15, 2019 10:43am
      - Morrissey
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Are you also incapable, like that dozy former coach Hansen and the “vulnerable” Read, of using the word “football”?
        
        0 32
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        November 15, 2019 10:46am
      - Colville
        
        Morris Dancer.
        K Reid doesnt play football.
        Wrong shaped balls.
        
        16 0
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        November 15, 2019 11:09am
      - chaos
        
        Are you incapable of running a boring blog without having to go around spamming the address in hope that someone is stupid enough to click on it
        
        8 0
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        November 15, 2019 1:43pm
      - Morrissey
        
        One “Colville” is bewildered. He wrote, in seeming high seriousness: “K Reid doesnt play football. Wrong shaped balls.”
        
        Perhaps “Colville” can explain what “K Reid” was doing in Japan for the last couple of months. Playing hockey? Then again, having posted one of the most breathtakingly stupid statements to appear on this forum, perhaps “Colville” cannot do anything of the sort.
        
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        November 15, 2019 3:53pm
Straight arrow

Stuff today:
“A major design oversight has seen the positioning of Tokoroa’s famous chainsaw man deemed culturally insensitive.

The wooden sculpture, The Pine Man of Tokoroa, has sat alongside State Highway 1 in Leith Pl since 2004 to mark the town’s forestry roots [and one of several poles with carvings].

But due to the relocation of the poles, the sculpture’s chainsaw now points into the head of another carving.”

Anyone guess what culture the other carving is? This is being precious.
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November 15, 2019 10:41am
- Rachael Membery
  
  More likely to be photo worthy then.
  
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  November 15, 2019 4:09pm
Fletch

Well, Glenn Beck reckons he has connected all the dots about what was happening in the Ukraine and why some panicked when Trump said the thing needs looking into and so rushed into the impeachment process.

I haven’t read the whole thing yet (it’s very, very long) but make of it what you will. It involves Soros, the Ukraine, money, Hillary Clinton, the Obama Administration etc.

Beck has all the documents (linked) in PDF form that he says will back up what he says.

It’s a very tangled web, but make of it what you will.

There’s also a two hour video where he explains the whole thing.

https://www.glennbeck.com/glenn-beck/the-democrats-hydra-here-are-the-facts-about-the-impeachment-inquiry-soros-ukraine
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November 15, 2019 10:46am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Here’s one diagram to explain it all:
  https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vox.com%2F2017%2F11%2F17%2F16658080%2Furanium-one-clinton-russia-chart&psig=AOvVaw1SFAg0AzU7uFijyTIGnREw&ust=1573856641409627
  
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  November 15, 2019 11:25am
srylands

I consult the weather forecasts on https://www.metservice.com/

I travel in New Zealand and go tramping. This week Metservice ruined their website by turning a neat easy to follow site into a mess. It cost them $1.7 million. Reaction on social media has been scathing. What do they say? Nothing.

If you are going into the back country good weather information can save lives. Didn’t anyone along the way raise their hand to say anything?
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November 15, 2019 10:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Being a boatie means I use the marine forecast from Metservice. It is now a fuckup. What is it with the younger generation? If it’s not broken then fucking leave it alone
  
  25 5
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  November 15, 2019 11:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Who is the dickhead downticking? A good marine forecast saves lives. Karma coming your way bitch
    
    18 8
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    November 15, 2019 11:22am
    - sooty
      
      You use petrol and rape the ocean, maybe someones jealouse?
      
      6 6
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      November 15, 2019 12:22pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nah, it’s because I own 2 boats and 3 vehicles (Land Cruiser) and a caravan. The envious left can not stand someone who has worked hard to achieve this
        
        5 4
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        November 15, 2019 2:13pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    Agreed with the comments about the new website.
    What was a functional website is now a shambles.
    
    12 1
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    November 15, 2019 11:44am
  - Paginus
    
    The younger generation is now cheap third word immigrants.
    
    3 1
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    November 15, 2019 1:51pm
- chaos
  
  They did have one common reply, use
  
  https://old.metservice.com/national/home
  
  It is a joke, it was the best site for weather, now it’s just crap.
  
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  November 15, 2019 12:17pm
- barnacle bill
  
  I agree srylands.
  
  They have turned the site into disaster.
  
  The old version was simple to use and understand.
  Now it is plain awful.
  
  10 1
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  November 15, 2019 1:10pm
  - srylands
    
    They had the thing in beta testing for months. 1.7 million dollars for a pile of crap. And who is accountable? Silence.
    
    5 0
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    November 15, 2019 5:36pm
- Fletch
  
  I agree. It used to be better to navigate. We have family friends that swear by the site http://www.metvuw.com/forecast/
  
  Forecasts up to 10 days ahead and you can clearly see the cloud/ weather systems.
  
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  November 15, 2019 1:17pm
  - Fletch
    
    ps, not “forecasts” exactly, but the maps.
    
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    November 15, 2019 1:24pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    Metvuw is pretty good.
    I add windy and predict wind into the mix when i am running sailing events.
    Once i have looked at those, I look at metview and then look out the window to see what the weather actually looks like..
    
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    November 15, 2019 2:23pm
  - rangitoto
    
    For a phone app, I find meteoblue quite good. Their web site is also good.
    
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    November 15, 2019 3:05pm
  - srylands
    
    Yeah but it you are a tramper you need mountain and hourly rain forecasts and severe weather alerts.
    
    All this stuff is still in the new website. It is just visually ghastly and difficult to navigate. Fucking retards.
    
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    November 15, 2019 5:39pm
curry4me

Here is a Brexit bulletin. Among other things, Boris Johnson wants to investigate Soros’s ‘Open Society’ donations to Remain groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H83GWA2yWlU
14 2
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November 15, 2019 11:30am
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND: THE SEVERELY DYSFUNCTIONAL CHRISTCHURCH CITY COUNCIL MUST BE DE – AMALGAMATED …

… There are two types of local government in this world … the small and the bad …

… What performance lessons have been learnt from the smaller and therefore functional adjoining units of local government … Waimakarari and Selwyn ? …

… The ‘blindingly obvious’ culture problems were caused by the forced local government amalgamations of 1989 … when prior to that, we had on a comparable population basis, as many units of local government as the United States (90,000) has today …

… If you take the ‘local’ out of local government, you bureaucratically bugger it …

Top (Christchurch City) council staff ‘manipulated’ reports to hide bad news from councillors and public … Tina Law & Dominic Hare … The Press / Stuff

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/117429451/damning-report-alleges-christchurch-city-council-staff-kept-negative-information-secret-manipulated-reports?cid=app-iPad

… The major issues and problems were well known back at the time of the 4,500 strong Peoples Protest back in early 2012 … when current Mayor Lianne Dalziel was elected the following year, to start in to addressing these blindingly obvious and serious issues …

Christchurch: The Way Forward … Hugh Pavletich … Scoop News

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1206/S00251/christchurch-the-way-forward.htm

… access extensive further background information …

Performance Urban Planning

http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/
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November 15, 2019 11:40am
- sooty
  
  Link whoring again hughie.
  What no one coming to your blog still?
  
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  November 15, 2019 4:28pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Remember what a former Christchurch Central Labour MP Brendon Burns said in a The Press Opinion 8 February 2012 …
  
  Better communication can shine a light in the darkness | Brendan Burns OPINION | Stuff.co.nz
  
  http://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/perspective/6380541/Better-communication-can-shine-a-light-in-the-darkness
  
  … extract …
  
  ‘ … For this city to best recover from its seismic nightmare, the process of decision- making needs to be inverted to truly empower communities. Such a radical change is very difficult to accept for anyone – of any political persuasion – who happens to be in power.
  
  To date, the required response is tokenistic. A top-down command and control system may be appropriate in the days after a disaster but not in a recovery which will take years. Among the ultimate victims will be those who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk when it comes to true community engagement. Just look at the Christchurch City Council….’
  
  When do they intend to start learning … what we have known all along ?
  
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  November 15, 2019 6:28pm
Fletch

Ouch. Southpark takes aim at transgender athletes, with a Randy Savage lookalike ‘transitioning’ to a woman and winning everything…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_9HcB_mGb0
9 2
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November 15, 2019 1:19pm
Maggie Pie

We’ve got a new Orderly working on our team [a Saffa]
He was telling us last night “…that when he got married to his wife
she had big breasts and long legs. Now she’s got long breasts and big legs”

LOL!!
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November 15, 2019 1:25pm
- sooty
  
  I bet she’s not youth adjacent anymore!
  
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  November 15, 2019 4:26pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Is this the same Saffa that was hassling you? Tell him to stop being a “Fokken Moer Naaier”
  
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  November 15, 2019 7:39pm
Swifty

Some very good footage of Mr Moon (the loon) and some of his friends….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbBDrceCy8
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November 15, 2019 2:04pm
Swifty

Mr Loon’s final performance in front of a live audience, I believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDfAdHBtK_Q

Note the performance of Mr Thunderfingers here too.
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November 15, 2019 2:09pm
Nostradamus

Hardcore vegans demand Bunnings CANCELS a nationwide barbeque to raise money for bushfire victims

Hardcore vegans have lashed out at Bunnings for holding a sausage sizzle to raise money for bushfire victims.

The hardware giant will be holding a nationwide fundraiser on November 22, with all stores across Australia raising money for those affected by bushfires that have ravaged the eastern states. The hardware store will host its famous sausage sizzle, and also give customers the option to donate to the victims in store.

But the fundraiser has drawn criticism from the vegan community. ‘Why oh why are people selling sausages to raise money when it’s known that meat is a contributing factor to climate change? Which is a contributing factor to these fires!’, a post read on a vegan Facebook page.

What mean-spirited wankers!
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November 15, 2019 2:44pm
- Swifty
  
  Zealotry invariably leads to wankerishness I find, my good man Nostradamus.
  
  They often can’t find the wood for the trees.
  
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  November 15, 2019 3:22pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Fuck them, from today I am making a concerted effort to eat more meat and drink more Coke, but only cans with Colonial names on them. (Unrelated but similar issue)
  
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  November 15, 2019 7:37pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Worse than mean-spirited wankers. Fucking lunatics.
  
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  November 15, 2019 8:51pm
MCos

Important piece of trivia.
When King George IV of England died in 1830 the Times obituary noted ‘There never was an individual less regretted by his fellow creatures than this deceased king.’
6 1
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November 15, 2019 2:50pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Bugger, It’s been taken. I was thinking of something similar for a certain person, previously unemployed of St Mary’s Bay, who has issues filling in forms and remembering who he is with when forgetting certain details…..
  
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  November 15, 2019 7:35pm
JibberJabber

You’ve Gotta Love Millennials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpE1Pa8vvI&feature=youtu.be
4 0
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November 15, 2019 3:39pm
Inandout

Who’d want to be a Biden:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0LsLGKNHdI&feature=youtu.be
3 0
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November 15, 2019 4:03pm
Fletch

The Greens want to replace Parliament’s bells “with bird song”…. Oh good grief…. ?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/greens-want-to-replace-parliament-s-bells-with-birdsong.html
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November 15, 2019 4:05pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  A strident one I hope. I am glad to see that this issue is the sum of our problems.
  
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  November 15, 2019 4:23pm
- sooty
  
  Sure, replace it with a ducks quacking!
  
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  November 15, 2019 4:23pm
- Inandout
  
  Maybe the Laughing Policeman would be more appropriate.
  
  3 0
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  November 15, 2019 5:15pm
- JibberJabber
  
  How about a Dog whistle and a “Get in Behind, ya bloody mongrels”?
  
  8 0
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  November 15, 2019 6:13pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING

When someone told my partner there was a huge school brawl happening at Mission Bay, he shot straight down to see if he could do anything to sort it out. Fortunately, there was already about 40 cops there with batons and cuffs.
He just txt me again from the scene to say he was ok and, “Looks like it was South meets East”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285666
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November 15, 2019 5:44pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And already i see a lot of residents from Remmers are tweeting –
  
  ‘Build a wall! Build a wall!’
  
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  November 15, 2019 6:09pm

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