General Debate 14 November 2019

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andrew davies

OK Chloe, I will admit it. I am a loud and proud Boomer. It is way better than being a Doomer and Gloomer like you.
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November 14, 2019 8:00am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I wear the OK Boomer label with pride. I’ve paid tax since 1974, I have never been on a benefit, even during periods of unemployment, and I’ve helped my kids get on in life.
  
  Swarbrick uses inaccurate stereotypes to reinforce her distaste for those of us who have “paid our dues”.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:27am
  - andrew davies
    
    “paid our dues”.
    And in many cases continue to pay them.
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:33am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      I have no doubt that you personally have paid more in tax than you’ve ever received and ever will receive from the state. There must mathematically be some people who do so, and it’s probable that a lot of people on this site are among them, including myself (1963).
      
      However, the Boomer generation as a whole hasn’t paid enough tax to cover the costs of its own Super. The Super Fund isn’t anything like big enough for that. Some of us paid for previous generations’ Super, but previous generations weren’t as numerous or as long-lived as we are. This is a real issue which ought to be faced up to now.
      
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      November 14, 2019 9:23am
      - Colville
        
        A_R
        I agree.
        There has been a lot of good come out of the Boomers but here in NZ, the problems with National Super should have been addressed 15 or 20 years ago.. its now a train wreck waiting to happen.
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:54am
      - theoldbloke
        
        The superfund was never setup to make sure it saved enough to pay your super. It was setup to be paid for by future generations. Consider it the same children taking care of their parents 🙂
        
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        November 14, 2019 4:31pm
  - atomic drop
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    “I wear the OK Boomer label with pride”
    
    Million dollar dog boxes, negative interest rates, female penises and Infinity Wars For Israel.
    
    #thanks boomers
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:35am
    - andrew davies
      
      “female penises”
      That is my fault how?
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:20am
    - cmm
      
      Telling kids their voice is as important as adults.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:24pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Swarbrick will continue to be a non-productive drain on society for the rest of her life.
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:35am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I live in the hope that she will grow out of it.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:58am
- Random T Person
  
  But what about Millennial deprivation?
  As in the most prosperous, coddled and provided-for generation ever? Shame, poor babies want a house now, too.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:41am
  - andrew davies
    
    “Shame, poor babies want a house now, too”
    And 16 year olds be given the vote! We would all need a safe space if that was to happen.
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:59am
  - atomic drop
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    “Shame, poor babies want a house now, too.”
    
    But you want them to have a house too, or more specifically a 1 million dollar mortgage for a dog box. Thats why the interest rates keep heading south to keep your Boomer property ponzi scheme chugging along so you can cruise the Med next winter.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:39am
    - kaykaybee
      
      The day they work all through university term AND holidays, when they take two jobs afterwards to save for their overseas trip, they never have a cent from Mum and Dad, they never use a cc prior to house purchase, I’ll hear you.
      
      Until then they can buy their iPhone 11s, head up to Bali on their student loan, buy Celine and Moscot sunglasses, whine about having period poverty and needing a safe place.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:07am
    - Paginus
      
      Just save atomic drop, that’s what the boomers did. Interest rates are at a whopping 2.6%, which is completely the same as saving at 10%+ like the boomers did.
      Now go buy a house in a poor area, it might not be white like the boomers poor neighborhood, but I’m sure you and your kids can learn Samoan or join a local mosque.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:23am
    - igm
      
      Bet you are a real Labour loser . . . state house, lifelong benefit bludger, and living in envy of all those who surround you with the rewards of hard work, thrift, and no self-entitlement.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:44am
    - Random T Person
      
      Actually it’s Las Vegas at the end of this month. I shall think of you as I quaff my footlong margaritas and throw money into a slot machine. Money which you somehow think belongs to you, not me.
      Luckily thinks and feelz don’t get it out of my wallet and into yours. Try hard work, that’s the way it’s done sonny.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:40am
  - Sacha
    
    How about putting some of the blame on their parents?
    And none of the old excuses about giving them the ‘nice things’ because they themselves didn’t them them when they were kids.
    There’s a lot to be said for bringing kids up ‘poor’.
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:24pm
- Lance
  
  Because it only matters to Chloe and her ilk, who you are, what you look like and how old you are. Not what you think, do or achieve.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:46am
  - atomic drop
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Obviously you have never heard of group dynamics.
    
    News flash! We belong to groups, tribes, whatever you want to call them.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:41am
- cut n paster
  
  https://ibb.co/g73437d
  
  …and then I got high.
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:07am
- Billy Collins
  
  Gen Z and Millenials will make crappy decisions that will end up burdening the next gen, and they will make some good ones too.
  
  The thing is Chloe’s generation, my generation, have information at their fingertips, the highest living standards in history, have an even bigger and more accessible history to learn from, so we will have even less excuse if we mess up.
  
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  November 14, 2019 2:25pm
Happychappy

Government to consider replacing RNZ, TVNZ with new public broadcaster. Is this a good sign for NZ Media or is it just another attempt for Labour and the Left to game the political system.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403232/govt-to-consider-replacing-rnz-tvnz-with-new-public-broadcaster
Details of this proposal were provided by a source outside of RNZ.
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November 14, 2019 8:05am
- G152
  
  No more fake news and simpering pretties..
  Say it isn’t so
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh, there will be lots more fake news…
    
    that’s one thing I can guarantee having watched a few internal scraps when restructures occur.
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  According to Hosking, who has worked for both, the cultures of RNZ and TVNZ are so different that a “marriage” would be doomed to fail.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:28am
  - oldpark
    
    Tony Stuart can you name anyone or person in NZ who at an age of learning in their early 20s gets circa $200,000 for allegedly telling lies , abusing anyone she dosn’t agree with,and ignoring proven facts on the danger to health with her crusade for legal drugs and marijuana.
    Yes a twist of fate in NZs electoral system allows a snotty nose self opinated wee brat called Chloe from the far left lunatic Green Party can say whatever type of abuse that comes to mind, and get $200,ooo dollars a year for saying it. .What a bloody indictment of an electoral system long past its use by date.
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:50am
    - rockape
      
      But she is quite a cute little girl! sarc
      
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      November 14, 2019 9:30am
    - fernglas
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Chloe Swarbrick is a smart and fore-sighted representative, not just of her age group, but of us all. She should be praised and encouraged, not abused.
      
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      November 14, 2019 9:41am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        I beg to disagree fernglas. She is a danger to society.
        
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        November 14, 2019 10:10am
      - oldpark
        
        Yes praise her for playing liars poker. You sound like her bunny, fernglass.As for her work track record. Not possible, not long out of the cradle. Hope you are not one of her far left Greenie nutbars,or even “Chloe”.
        
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        November 14, 2019 10:18am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        Well, when she stops dealing with contrary viewpoints with soundbites and starts actually listening and engaging, I may consider it, however her ‘my way or the highway’ approach common amongst the Green party, I imagine that will be a long way off in the future!
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:09am
    - Nickc2
      
      Don’t forget, Winston made this happen.
      Speaking of Winston, how can he with any consciousness whatsoever face the people he accused across the floor of parliament again given what has just transpired in court?
      Rack your cue Winston and resign immediately for the good of your country. You may even save some face if you do.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:10am
- mandk
  
  We don’t need a public broadcaster, nor publicly funded media of any sort.
  
  If the government needs to be able to convey important messages to the public (e.g. tsunami coming) it should be a condition of licences that broadcasts can be interrupted.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:31am
  - IC5000
    
    YOU don’t need these things. Stop claiming to speak for everyone else when it simply takes a few seconds of reasonable thought that people might have different views to you.
    
    Is this a hard concept to grasp
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:25pm
    - mandk
      
      Don’t be silly. Of course I recognise that other people have different views to mine.
      
      Do take a look at the title of this thread and provide a counter-argument, if you have one.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:50pm
      - IC5000
        
        > Don’t be silly. Of course I recognise that other people have different views to mine.
        
        So why are you dishonestly representing other people’s views then or are you so conceited that you think you can speak for others without their permission?
        
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        November 14, 2019 2:18pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      IC5000, you would do well to learn some basic conversation skills. For what I’ve read of your comments I estimate >95% of them conclude with you attacking or denigrating the OP. If you want to be treated seriously you may want to change that.
      
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      November 14, 2019 3:06pm
      - IC5000
        
        > I estimate >95% of them conclude with you attacking or denigrating the OP
        
        That’s because in those 95% of cases the OP is a degenerate moron. How should degenerate morons be treated?
        
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        November 14, 2019 5:50pm
    - Miritu
      
      Even if ‘we’ need something, it is immoral to force somebody else to provide it
      
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      November 14, 2019 6:19pm
      - IC5000
        
        Like fluoride or vaccines? Maybe a police force? How about roads?
        
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        November 14, 2019 6:53pm
- chaos
  
  So a few million on rebranding, sorry boomers,your hip and knee replacements will have to it again. It ain’t broke, so leave it alone. Labour fuck up everything. We had a world leading education system until mallard decided to change it. Now it’s a joke.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:50am
- niggly
  
  Hands up who thinks Labour has the competency to do this without screwing it up?
  
  History shows they screwed things up before eg Labour’s Lange Govt of 1987 and their separation of TVNZ and Radio NZ (then a few years later along comes the Internet, where having a conglomerate is actually to a broadcaster’s advantage), then we had Labour’s Clark Govt in the early 2000’s which forced a public service “Charter” on TVNZ, but was unworkable eg Labour expected TV1 to play “non-commercial” programming in a commercial (adverts) environment?
  
  Anyway I’m not against a commercial free TV1 and RNZ (and as long as provisions are put in for the broadcasters and journos to be politically neutral – something they are not at present).
  
  But even still TV2 and TV3 (and commercial radio and newspapers etc), still have to compete with the likes of multinationals like Facebook, and Internet streaming services with a global reach (eg netflix etc).
  
  Clearly streaming is the way to go (and is where the money is), but terrestrial TV still has an advantage of providing greater coverage thanks to efforts in the 1960’s onwards to provide nationwide tv/radio coverage plus satellite technology.
  
  I wonder if the future for NZ media is for the Govt to put the money into a Freeview type steaming service? EG all NZ broadcasters have access to this infrastructure? How that would play out is free-to-air terrestrial/satellite broadcasting would continue to be supported and provided (for greater coverage and civil defence emergencies), but streaming content (of all channels) could possibly be subscription based if one doesn’t want ads (and possibly free to the public if it contained ads)?
  
  Practically what this would also mean is one would get to watch a programme in its entirety (if paying for an online subscription), but as hour long programmes are actually around 50 minutes the would have 10 minute fillers (or maybe a 10 ten summary of the previous episodes) like how TV was in the “old days” when filler shows/cartoons etc were used when programmes ended early.
  
  Of course those watching non-subscription internet streaming would see the same ads as TV viewers.
  
  Another advantage of a paid subscription (for streaming tv) could be that programmes can be “rewinded” (say back 24 hours?) so they can be played anytime, anywhere on one’s devices (and like in the “old days” people can gather around someone’s device and re-watch a programme or segment of interest.
  
  Anyway just some random thoughts, I’m sure someone could improve upon it to make it work! I just like the way we can watch the 6pm news live online on a device (but it needs to be all the time not just 6-7pm, and all or most channels too etc).
  
  Let’s face it people of today watch online (but TV/terrestrial/satellite still has a place a la the Rugby World Cup and the Spark Sport debacle)!
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:50am
  - sooty
    
    No they will be able to run it!
    They will just put Twit Twyford in charge!
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:06am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Messages on repeat?
      
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      November 14, 2019 3:07pm
  - chaos
    
    Let’s see who had to add more guns to their gun ban the other day because of loop holes in their law. They can’t even get that right.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The game’s afoot.
  State radio and TV are appalling already.
  Just a continuation of the communist takeover underway.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:51am
  - IC5000
    
    > Just a continuation of the communist takeover underway
    
    Maggie Barry began her career at RadioNZ and then moved over to TV2 and hosted various news and current affairs shows.
    
    Given your logic you saying that Maggie Barry is an agent of the communist revolution. Do you know how insane you sound?
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:32pm
- cut n paster
  
  No News today..
  https://ibb.co/9bTdS3c
  
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  November 14, 2019 12:19pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Why does the government decide what our news is and content is. If we do have to subsidise journalism then what about a voucher system – like swedish education – but for media. And the public can chose to spend their voucher on local media content of their choosing.
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:52pm
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
NEW ZEALAND … Mortgage rate hikes on the horizon ? …

RBNZ’s tactics could backfire as signs of potential mortgage rate hikes appear … Jenée Tibshraeny … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/102567/markets-price-lending-rate-hikes-following-rbnzs-decision-keep-ocr-1-governor-adrian

‘You don’t have to keep shouting… I imagine it’s been heard’ – RBNZ Governor Adrian Orr on his calls for the Government to spend more to stimulate the economy… Jenée Tibshraeny … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/102568/you-dont-have-keep-shouting-i-imagine-its-been-heard-rbnz-governor-adrian-orr-his-calls
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November 14, 2019 8:07am
- Cobolt24
  
  New Zealand’s median house price passes $600,000 for first time
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117411737/new-zealands-median-house-price-passes-600000-for-first-time-real-estate-institute
  
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  November 14, 2019 10:30am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Read closely Canterbury and Auckland price trends …
    
    https://reinz.co.nz/residential-property-data-gallery
    
    … with increasingly more affordable new supply coming on the market (check Stats NZ res building consent trends) … with also … new legislative changes being put in place, dealing with increasing land supply and infrastructure debt financing.
    
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    November 14, 2019 4:56pm
niggly

So Winston and his lawyer have come to the conclusion that former National Ministers Bennett and Tolley didn’t leak his pension details.

So in essence Winston self-destructed in 2017 and as a result formed a government with Labour and the enemy of common sense and prosperity, the loopy radical Greens. As it turns out, for no valid reason, because Winston was wrong!

So who has mud on their faces? Winston does, and so does Barry Soper and Whale Oil for pushing their anti-National “they leaked it!” attack stories. So did their biased reporting enable Winston and his court case (and is Winston pissed off with them for leading him down the wrong path)? Or were they played by NZF as mouthpieces? Surely there is more to come.

Anyway now that Winston isn’t suing the National MP’s, how can he still sue the MSD and the two chief executives when there is still no proof their staff leaked Winston’s details?
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November 14, 2019 8:08am
- G152
  
  Counter sue the old liar.
  Make him responsible for his years of lies and deception.
  Just refer to Hansard
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:29am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Since when has Winston ever needed proof?
  
  Seriously though, he took a massive risk with this case, and it has backfired spectacularly. He tried to settle, but made Paula Bennett the cost of settlement. She and the National Party told him where to stick his proposed “settlement” and said “See you in court!”, where Peters has failed miserably.
  
  Right now, the best thing would be for Ms Trotman to get in his ear and tell him to enjoy his retirement in peace, and away from Parliament, before the unthinkable happens and NZF’s MP’s overthrow him.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:31am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Brian Henry conceded that the claim against Anne Tolley or Paula Bennett could not succeed.
    My view if that is correctly reported is that both of those women as successful defendants would be entitled to judgment against Mr Peters becasue his claim failed. They would also be entitled to costs of at least $60k under the high court rules pr more if they sought indemnity costs from Mr Peters.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:19am
  - Justitia
    
    I see a knighthood for Winston in the New Year’s honours followed by a cushy diplomatic posting as “Sir Winston”. He’s just posted a career seat-warmer to London, shouldn’t be too difficult to push them aside. Shopping at Harrods, a box at Ascot and rubbing shoulders with the royals. Needs must.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:22am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Don’t give the wrinkled rasin a fucking thing except his arse card.
      
      He is hanging out for that title but hey, that would be cultural appropiaton surely
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:16am
    - Paul Marsden
      
      Peter’s use to be my hero, but long since fallen from grace.
      
      He deserves a jail cell, not a knighthood.
      
      I feel so dreadfully sorry for Jan Trotman.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:27am
      - Twinkletoes
        
        Yes and unless the old reprobate marries her she will still remain Ms. Trotman and not Lady Peters.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:50pm
    - peterwn
      
      Jacinda needs to push the knighthood through before Justice Venning hands down his judgment.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:47am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Indeed. I suspect he’ll become Sir Winston in the New Year’s Honours List.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:02pm
      - namron
        
        I have lost all respect for Whiney. If he does get a
        NY award [as possibly included in that SECRET agreement with Labour] there is NO WAY that I could ever treat him with any respect – eve with a title – especially if he got it this way.
        Just thinking of his history of nefarious behaviour- his manipulation of people and, situations, his deception and deceit and
        his total expectations that everything he has ever said or done should be humbly accepted and treasured by us all.
        Well, NO Winston!!!
        This Court case is confirming that what many of us thought for all these years is being exposed.
        All those loud blasts of your “verbiage” {great word – “too many useless words”} – over the years were deceptive, but seemed to command some support from some people.
        Now the impression I get is that you have become a “pathetic laughing stock” and perhaps your next move should be a quiet resignation and disappearance from your public presence.
        namron
        
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        November 14, 2019 6:14pm
  - rockape
    
    For a lawyer he seems inept. Firstly he cant complete a simple form every pensioner has to complete. Secondly he embarked on this farce with not a shred of evidence. Maybe he should look closer to home for who would want him gone and could have leaked.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:27am
    - yossarian
      
      Maybe because the last time he was a lawyer was in 1978, and it was a two bit law firm
      
      Why do people keeping pushing the Winston’s a lawyer rubbish?
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:18am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Because he trained as one and presumably passed the exams.
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:37am
      - rockape
        
        He doesn’t even have a practicing certificate if my memory serves me correctly.
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:46am
      - sooty
        
        So I take it that he did not pass his exams!
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:38pm
- Yvette
  
  As Niggly says –
  Tim Murphy, Newsroom, now writes –
  Peters accepts National ministers didn’t leak
  Winston Peters’ lawyer appears to have accepted in the High Court that two former National ministers he is suing for $450,000 for breaching his privacy were not the source of the leak or responsible for it.
  … “That left the MSD in the position that they now cannot avoid a finding that the breach was on MSD,” Henry said. [1]
  
  Of MSD staff, apparently – around 40 ministry officials who had some awareness – 11 of whom knew the level of detail passed to the media [1]
  
  However, unless many are wrong, it appears Lloyd Burr first asked Winston some vague questions, which seemed to display no more detailed knowledge than that an issue of overpayment had occurred.
  Winston then voluntarily issued information himself, detailing more than anyone else ever seems to have done. Except confirm the amount of Government money he was not entitled to – so MSD’s, not his – was around $18,000.
  
  The vagueness of Burr’s information could actually be no more than a tip-off from any person in Wellington, who witnessed Winston (after being notified) drop business in hand and immediately fly to Auckland to sort the matter out, so any person – taxi-drivers, receptionists, security guards, a tea-lady or MSD janitor – who saw Winston attend the MSD office could have added 1 + 1 to get 2, better than the way Labour usually seems to do ‘maths’.
  
  What then was “the level of detail passed to the media”, which Winston didn’t himself make public?
  Seems that only detail not volunteered publicly by Winston was the exact amount of $17,936.43 owing in repayment.
  
  [1] https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/13/909071/peters-accepts-national-ministers-didnt-leak
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:33am
  - niggly
    
    If someone in MSD did leak, I can understand Winston’s anger and frustration.
    
    (Mind you Winston “caused” this all in the first place for not filling in his application forms correctly – all of this debacle would never have happened if he had)!
    
    But if someone in MSD did leak it, how can it be proved? As Newsroom’s reporting states, for MSD to be sued could see the top civil servants reputations damaged when they have been nothing but impartial and politically neutral?
    
    Meethinks Winston may be wiser to drop his case against them …. for his sake as well as theirs.
    
    In fact Winston may not realise but he still has a nuclear option up his sleeve …. if it was likely that if there was a leak and it was caused by a Greenie who was upset about NZF potentially exposing Metiria Turei’s fraud case (as was suggested last week at the court case), well Winston could always collapse the Coalition and see the Greens turfed out of power! (I’m sure NZF support would go up as a result)!
    
    That might see Greenie aligned civil servants stop leaking things in the future (if indeed that happened) due to unintended future consequences – utu!
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:25am
    - Yvette
      
      Niggly – in fact, equally it could be a Green-supporting employee appalled at Metiria’s blatant entitled confession, and becoming aware of Winston’s situation corrected within 24 hours knew he was untouchable, “done and dusted” before Tolly was told, and tipped someone off to highlight Metiria’s mess which didn’t seem to be helping the Greens really at the time.
      
      This scenario of course also fits hunlkiwi’s comment “… there has been no evidence provided to prove the leak came from a person or persons not associated with Peters himself.”
      
      The reasons and opportunities are probably unlimited.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:40am
    - rangitoto
      
      Could easily have been a disgruntled Winnie firster. There is a lot of stuff leaking from there.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:26am
  - Prince
    
    This shows just how amateurish and ‘baseless’ Peters’ claim is…
    
    “Henry disputed a claim by Bruce Gray QC, for the ministers, that there had been no social media reports of Peters’ overpayment presented to the court that had occurred before Peters issued his press release announcing that news.
    He pointed to a Kiwiblog posting about the risks for Peters if the overpayment news was correct. However he gave the court the date August 28 for the Kiwiblog comment, and that was actually the day after Peters issued his press release.”
    
    They couldn’t even get that right. A fishing expedition is being too kind.
    It shows the sheer laziness and ineptitude that is the hallmark of his Government.
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:29am
    - Nickc2
      
      It has long been commented upon that Peters leaked the information himself. The timeline quoted by Prince would lend credibility to this line of thinking.
      Anyhow, why would Trotman attempt to seek a pension for herself if she was shacked up with Winston and had been for some time? Remember, she accompanied him to the MSD interview didn’t she?
      Barry Soper is a good mate of Winston’s, perhaps he could answer some questions. Oh, that’s right, journalists are not required to reveal their sources in case the truth may be told.
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:27pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You’re overlooking the fact that witnesses from the media confirmed the leak, but as is their right did not disclose the source. So that there was a leak is not in question.
    WP now says that because both MPs denied the leak and that MSD did not then they are responsible. The Judgement is reserved so we will have to wait and see if that is accepted. But this case is really about the Privacy Act and MSD argued that they followed a protocol not the Law – on that question is where the answer will lie.
    The reason why the form is delivered in person is to ensure the applicant is in the fact the person eligible for the super and that the form is filled out properly.
    MSD did not deny that staff asked to take photos of themselves with Peters, in itself indicating staff were distracted.
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:35am
    - rangitoto
      
      It’s not an either or. Could have been Winnie or someone else inside NZ First.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:27am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        That’s my guess too. Peters was getting no air time because of the media’s obsession with Ardern. He’d already dealt with the MSD incident and paid back the loot, so unlike Turei, the fallout would be minor, and anyway, Peters has never minded bad publicity.
        
        So what better to orchestrate a leak, then play the outraged victim of a political hit job? That fits Peters’ persona perfectly. And heck, there’s still a story on the Herald website this morning by Bryce Edwards calling this “dirty politics” against Peters.
        
        Yep, it’s “dirty politics” all right; “dirty politics’ by Peters, making a baseless smear against two senior members of a rival political party. That’s what the evidence given to the High Court suggests.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:09pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        No evidence, is no evidence.
        
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        November 14, 2019 3:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But still RNZ is trying to paint a picture that Winston is a man that has been wronged…
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403234/bennett-tolley-avoid-financial-damages-in-peters-privacy-case
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:34am
  - Lance
    
    RNZ a CoL sock puppet?… I am shocked
    /sarc/
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:48am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      And Kris Faafoi is going to integrate them with TVNZ. Oh really?
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:11pm
- peterwn
  
  The hearing is wrapped now and it remains for the Judge to write the judgment which will surely be a cracking good read. Presumably Winston can chuck the towel in even at this late stage meaning the Judge need not write a judgment.
  However Winston probably still wants to make a dent in the ‘no surprises’ policy, hence he is doggedly carrying on.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:35am
  - chaos
    
    He wants to save face, nothing more than the ability to tell the nation that his details were leaked by someone. Problem for him is all the evidence points to him being a liar
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:51am
    - herb1
      
      “Problem is all the evidence points to him being a liar”…. and has done so for the last 40 years
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:44am
      - IC5000
        
        Well if it works well for Trump then why not?
        
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        November 14, 2019 2:59pm
  - alwyn
    
    I can suggest quite a good comment he could make about Winston’s claims and his lawyer’s presentations.
    About Winston’s claims I think he could use the phrase borrowed from Peter Mahon.
    “I am forced reluctantly to say that I had to listen to an orchestrated litany of lies”.
    Pity he can’t do it unless he said that to Peters or Henry at some stage during the Court case.
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:11am
- Tricati
  
  Maybe Peters needs the settlement to pay back the NZ First Foundation loans – Things are stating to unravel which is good for us all.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:53am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston’s folly continues. Expect more. He needs to be retired.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:07am
  - Sacha
    
    He looked like death warmed up on QT yesterday and rather sad. He’s a sick, tired old man, and should be looking forward to sitting in the sun with a whiskey beside him.
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:33pm
- Poppa
  
  Peters never had a case in the first place
  
  It was a political play by him at the time and he never intended to get to court. He gambled on a settlement which never happened, so he was forced into going to court to save face
  
  Fucking good job Peters I hope the judge finds you liable for costs
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:27am
  - stigie
    
    Still can’t help thinking the prick released his own details because he was not getting any traction via the media ?
    It was around the same time when that other sordid women from the greens was being done for fraud.
    Winston was being left out, and what is a better way to get heaps of exposure is to invent something.
    A nasty vindictive obfuscating person thats been a blight on our parliament !~
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:25am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      You’re onto it.
      
      Anyone for dirty politics?
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:14pm
      - sooty
        
        Whinestone out Hagared, Hagar!
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:42pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yep; he tried to hold National over a barrel by demanding Paula Bennett’s head on a plate in return for a settlement. He didn’t reckon on National and Bennett staring him down, and saying “See you in court Winston”.
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:13pm
    - niggly
      
      And despite all that history, let’s not forget Paula Bennett putting the past behind her and buying Winston flowers when he was recovering from his “old rugby wound” operation, only for him fire back insults to both Bennett and the florist and to give the flowers away!
      
      Will Winston have the good grace to apologise?
      
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      November 14, 2019 2:45pm
  - peterwn
    
    He is already liable for costs with respect to Ann and Paula as he has abandoned his claims against them.
    
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    November 14, 2019 1:40pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Will NZ First supporters fund it all?
      
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      November 14, 2019 3:35pm
      - stigie
        
        “No” we will !~
        
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        November 14, 2019 5:46pm
Steve James

So President Trump impeachment attempt:
Someone overhears one side of a telephone conversation and tells his boss what he thinks it might mean. The boss tells his understanding of it to the so called witness. The witness tells it as a “fact” at the hearing.
The racists wouldn’t have dared do any such thing to Obama.
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November 14, 2019 8:09am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Steve James , I believe Obama never offered a quid pro quo ( this for that) to any foriegn country ,
  
  Diplomat William Taylor Had ‘Clear Understanding’ of Ukraine Quid Pro Quo: Transcript,
  
  https://time.com/5720446/william-taylor-ukraine-quid-pro-quo-transcript/
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:45am
  - Steve James
    
    I have been listening to Taylor’s entire evidence and he said more than once there was “no quid pro quo” based on both his personal understanding and the actual evidence provided. He tried but got stuffed on cross examination.
    Your link is so “fake news” it is embarrassing.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:16am
    - stephieboy
      
      Steve James,” no quid pro quo” ? Where did Bill Taylor say that?
      
      Citation, please.
      
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      November 14, 2019 9:50am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Give it up steph. You’ve gone up another blind alley.
        Plonker!
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:40am
      - Michael
        
        typical Stephie. (and lefties)
        read the trascript Stephie.
        or listen to the proceedings like steve.
        
        oh i forgot you don’t like facts.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:17pm
    - stephieboy
      
      No I havent read the complete unedited version and I bet you never have.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:46pm
  - Nickc2
    
    BS Stephieboy. I watched and heard Taylor this morning say several times, there was no Quid Pro Quo.
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:38am
    - Nickc2
      
      Footnote re Stephieboy. Having a discourse with Stephieboy on the blog is like having a wrestle with a pig in the mud. After a while, you realise the pig is enjoying it.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:39pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Taylor wasn’t on the call, he has, at best, third hand evidence.
    
    So far, the hearing seems to be showing that this was a policy dispute between the “professionals” who believe that they should set foreign policy, and the Trump administration. Under the constitution, Trump has the right to set foreign policy and the bureaucrats can enact that or resign. they ahve zero right to attempt to subvert it.
    
    Here’s also an interesting timeline (in 47 tweets !) of the background to the US led attempt to get the AG of Ukraine fired – seemingly because he was getting close to exposing corruption that Biden did not want out in the open.
    
    https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1194604807052496897
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:39am
  - Billy Collins
    
    Burisma sent a memo to the Obama administration regarding the corruption investigation, specifically mentioning Hunter Biden’s involvement.
    
    A month later, the prosecutor is fired and the investigation ends.
    
    An investigation in to the prosecutor finds no wrongdoing committed.
    
    The prosecutor says, under oath, that he was pushed out for investigating Burisma.
    
    Biden jokes about withholding aid until the prosecutor is fired, saying that they can go to Obama and Obama will tell them the same thing.
    
    You think Obama knew nothing about this?
    
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    November 14, 2019 2:31pm
- Inandout
  
  SJ, the biggest laugh in the impeachment show is it being run by Adam (Shifty) Schist, one of the most underhand and despicable creatures ever to grace the US Congress. Of course this fiasco will fail because most people realise this is just a sideshow to take the heat off the Dem leadership train crash.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:04am
- chwaga
  
  Who says they only heard one side. Other folk there took notes and I suspect that in all Presidential calls both sides of the conversation are able to be heard by all present so that it can be discussed and clarified in case of dispute as well as recorded for posterity.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:18am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Yes, but Taylor didn’t hear either side. He says that he heard from Tim Morrison that Sondland told Morrison that Trump told Sondland….
    
    And that retelling does not match the transcript. In a normal courtroom such evidence would be excluded.
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:45am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m sure the intelligence committee would be happy to hear evidence in person from Trump, Sondland, Mulvaney and Giuliani.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:01am
  - Steve James
    
    Except they didn’t hear both sides of the call chwaga and they so far have admitted as much. TDS is clearly a global epidemic.
    Take the silly tweeting and some of the narcissism away and there will be the best president in history.
    Proven by results I might add.
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:52am
peterwn

Well, Winston’s lawyer really made Paula Bennett’s and Anne Tolley’s day yesterday when he announced and clarified that Winston admitted they were not involved in the leak.
It is also great news for the long suffering taxpayer since Winston will have to pay part (only part) of their defence costs (the Crown is meeting their costs as the matter arose out of their official roles as Ministers). Unfortunately the costs awarded against Winston would be ‘average’ 2B costs which only covers a portion of actual costs. But it is better for nothing. It is surprising that Winston waited until the last minute to blink. His judgment seems to be going to pieces in his old age.
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November 14, 2019 8:10am
- hullkiwi
  
  That is a shame. He should be paying full costs for a case that should never got to court. Because there has been no evidence provided to prove the leak came from a person or persons not associated with Peters himself.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:29am
  - peterwn
    
    Judges hardly ever award full costs no matter how frivolous the case. The only time they have to award full costs (solicitor-client costs in lawyer speak) is in contract law cases where the contract provides for full costs. Mortgage contracts generally do.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston has a gambling personality–they just don’t give up until beaten.
  I believe Winston is now on a permanent downward slope.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:11am
  - rockape
    
    His own party need to get rid of him or they will all be looking-for new jobs and I don’t see National giving them any!
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:52am
- Nookin
  
  Unfortunately the costs awarded against Winston would be ‘average’ 2B costs which only covers a portion of actual costs.
  
  It seems to me that the heads of department and ministers might well be in line for an escalated award or at least presented an arguable case.
  
  From the perspective of Hughes & Boyle, Peters has argued bad faith (albeit twisting it to “fail to act in good faith” in order to overcome his obvious evidential issues.
  
  Counsel made it clear that they were going to hold Peters to his pleadings. My recollection is that the courts frown on scandalous allegations which are unsupported by any evidence.
  
  remember that Peter’s first foray was pre-trial discovery, using a scattergun approach, which was essentially a fishing expedition to get evidence. I think Peters had to pay costs that round, also.
  Clearly, his fact-finding expedition turned up nothing .
  
  Despite what appears to be a complete absence of any evidence of a leak by Tolley or Bennett, Peters embarked on proceedings.
  
  Then we have Henry’s surprising observation that the trial did not progress as anticipated and he was expecting the ministry to turn on the ministers. I was going to say “to fill in the gaps” but in reality, Peters was clearly hoping that the ministry would be able to make the entirety of his case by blaming the ministers.
  
  It was a bold and very calculated risk but surely it must be one that would expose Peters to greater costs. At the end of the day, neither Bennett nor Tolley should have been there.
  
  If one talks about assessing the strength of a case before embarking on proceedings, it would appear that there was no evidence at all to maintain a case against the ministers and the taxpayer has been put to quite some expense because of a failed tactic that appears to be based more on intuition than reason.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:23am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    “However at the end of the trial yesterday, Mr Peters’ lawyer Brian Henry said the situation changed when Ms Tolley and Mrs Bennett denied in their evidence being responsible for leaking details of the seven-year overpayment – and the MSD’s lawyer did not challenge these denials.”
    “The plaintiff was expecting a challenge from the MSD to the ministers, but they did not challenge the cross-examination.
    That left, in our submission, the MSD in the position that they cannot avoid a finding that the breach was that of the MSD … and without further explanation, the balance of probabilities is that the MSD was responsible”, he said.
    Mr Henry said although he was not amending the suit, this inference did mean that Ms Tolley and Mrs Bennett now “drop out” of the damages part of the case.
    However, Mr Peters is still seeking a court declaration that his privacy was breached by all defendants.'”
    I think you’re overcooking what Henry said Nookin, and overlooking that no one has argued there was no leak.
    Be a very interesting Judgement, might go all the way to the Supreme Court eventually. There is no proof the MPs leaked the info and they denied it. MSD is the only other player. The hearing is closed without anyone (except on KB) claiming that Peters leaked himself – leaving only MSD standing and not denying that it was its own staff. If the Judge didn’t accept that he could have dismissed the claim and given written reasons later – looks like only 2 canoes in the race and one has passed as water tight.
    Peters now accepts that 2 MPs declared that it was not them. Whereas MSD have never denied the leak.
    I think Ann Tolley’s evidence was that she breached Peter’s privacy within her family.
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:32am
    - peterwn
      
      The cat was out of the bag when Ann told her sister, so she was no longer bound by confidentiality.
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:25pm
- GinandTee
  
  Just because it involves taxpayer money why should he not have to pay it back? Fraudulent waste of taxpayer resources. Maybe he wouldn’t have been so determined to continue with the case if ALL the expenses were going to come back on him.
  
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  November 14, 2019 3:16pm
krazykiwi

This is absolutely on-target.

An Open Letter to Greta Thunberg

First, we did not rob you of your childhood or of your dreams. You are the legatee of a magnificent technological civilization which my generation and the one before it and several others preceding it all the way to the Industrial Revolution and the Renaissance, bequeathed to you.
:::
Here is a hard truth to ponder, Greta: if the great producers of this world whom you excoriate were to withdraw their productivity, wealth and talents—in short—their minds from the world today, your generation would simply perish. Why? Because as children you have done nothing as yet, with your lives besides being born. This is what we expect of children until such time as they can be producers by learning from their elders. You are understandably social and ecological ballast. You are not yet cognitively advanced to replicate the structures of survival of which you are the beneficiaries.
:::
Your generation needs to be taught the morality of wealth creation, rather than only parasitically benefiting from it. The only revolution you will lead is one into nihilism and civilization regression.
:::
The apocalyptic world vision you hold has been a strip landing for those who have hated progress throughout history. Your apocalyptic predictions have been made for millennia, and, we’re still here. We will still be here long after you’ve grown up and we have forgiven you for skipping classes, thereby lowering the intelligence quotient of an entire generation.
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November 14, 2019 8:10am
- G152
  
  Post of the day Krazykiwi
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Greta has wangled another Yacht lift across the ocean:
  https://www.sbs.com.au/news/two-australians-have-offered-greta-thunberg-a-lift-across-the-atlantic-so-she-can-attend-cop25
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:39am
  - krazykiwi
    
    A 48 foot’er. Atlantic ocean with winter approaching. I have sea legs, but suspect I’d be green around the gills. 🤮
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:45am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    MW, so she should have used a mothballed Concord?
    
    LOL!
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:47am
  - chaos
    
    How to become rich and not spend any of your and your parents money, 101
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:53am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Bet she wants it free of charge and I hope she gets sea sick on the way.
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:59am
  - Steve James
    
    I wonder what those Aussies want with a young girl out in the middle of the ocean.
    
    10 5
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    November 14, 2019 9:18am
    - rockape
      
      Maybe to chuck her overboard.easy to lose someone at sea!
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:49am
  - rockape
    
    I hope she wont expect the RAF to use any fuel on a search and rescue mission if they get in trouble. Think of all that carbon!
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:48am
  - niggly
    
    WTF attending a conference?
    
    Shouldn’t she be at school, learning and gaining qualifications?
    
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    November 14, 2019 2:52pm
    - curry4me
      
      She should be in an institution receiving treatment for OCD, and autism.
      
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      November 14, 2019 9:06pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Your contributior Jason D Hill sets the tone of frontpage as a freaky alt right mag rag,
  
  “Daring to Suggest that All Cultures Aren’t Equal”
  
  The Acting Provost of DePaul University issues a formal censure against me.
  
  https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2019/08/daring-suggest-all-cultures-arent-equal-jason-d-hill/
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:40am
  - Inandout
    
    stephie, you of all people should realise we are not all born equal.
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:09am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Jason Hill’s arguments are sound.
    If we had a world where everyone was identical we would still have some more identical than the others.
    Claiming identity is a form of pride.
    
    11 2
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    November 14, 2019 10:16am
    - stephieboy
      
      “Jason Hill’s arguments are sound.”
      ???
      
      By whose standards?
      
      Yours?
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:48pm
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    The claim that all cultures are equal entails that no amount of factual difference between two cultures could affect our judgement of the relative worth of the cultures, nor could those factual differences ever affect desirable and undesirable outcomes. The claim further entails that no culture can ever improve or deteriorate, as that would make the changed culture unequal to its predecessor.
    
    If correct, this claim means:
    1) the end of slavery and Jim Crow in the southern US was not a cultural improvement;
    2) the end of men’s property rights over women and the acceptance of women’s equal access to the franchise, education and equal pay was not a cultural improvement;
    3) the end of slavery and cannibalism was not a cultural improvement in Maori society.
    
    Feel free to explain why you disagree with these examples, or the examples given in your link.
    
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    November 14, 2019 1:07pm
    - stephieboy
      
      1) the end of slavery and Jim Crow in the southern US was not a cultural improvement”
      
      Certainly wasn’t with “separate but equal” and other forms of enforced racism!!
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:50pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        ‘Separate but equal’ and other forms of enforced racism continued, not ended, Jim Crow.
        
        Is your comment an admission that a society where racism is culturally acceptable is inferior to a society where it is unacceptable?
        
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        November 14, 2019 2:27pm
- Billy Collins
  
  All this had to say is:
  
  Dear Greta,
  
  You think you can literally see carbon dioxide. I’ll rest my case there.
  
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  November 14, 2019 2:40pm
-D

Aussie view of Pacific climate “emergency”.
New Zealand mention starts at 1:25:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVmGL3neWo

They don’t beat around the bush do they?
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November 14, 2019 8:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yup, She gives our ‘virtue signalling PM’ a well deserved drubbing.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:29am
- Lance
  
  Agree with most of what she said, but she was seriously talking out her arse when she said NZers don’t pay tax in Aus.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:57am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Well, she actually says:
    
    “She (Jacinda Ardern) wants our taxpayers to give New Zealanders welfare here even if they’re not Australians and don’t pay tax”. I think it’s true Ardern wants this.
    
    However, her follow-on point about Ardern doing a deal with Winston Peters to cut immigration is technically true but demonstrably false. Net immigration is still the same, 45-50,000 a year.
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:38am
- Ruahine
  
  Ah! The wonderful Peta Credlin.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:14am
Simon

Jian Yang lied on his PR application.

Winston Peters lied on National Super renewal form.

Which is worse?
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November 14, 2019 8:14am
- mandk
  
  Peters of course.
  
  Isn’t he supposed to be Right Honourable?
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:26am
  - Simon
    
    Well Peters did it because he a grifting greedy clown . It was small money overall but criminal mind set clicked in
    
    Whereas Yang was just following orders.
    
    The PR application includes a statutory declaration? Yang should be prosecuted and then deported.
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:48am
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      Given Peters’ probable wealth, my guess is it was probably carelessness with detail rather than criminal intent, but either way, not a good look for the deputy PM.
      
      A big uptick for the ‘following orders’ comment. The unwillingness of both parties to recognise the Chinese Communist Party’s attempts to gain influence is depressing.
      
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      November 14, 2019 2:14pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Neither should be in parliament
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:26am
- Happychappy
  
  But what about Winston’s trusts you can’t blame National for theres and where the money comes from and turn a blind eye to NZ Firsts. Stick to fish mongering you do a better job at that.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:33am
pdm

`OK Chloe, I will admit it. I am a loud and proud Boomer.’

Me too – one of the first as I was born in April 1946.
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November 14, 2019 8:15am
- rockape
  
  Oct 46 , I just remember rationing in the UK, the floods in Norfolk , The big Freeze that was going to end agriculture in Europe, The nuclear threat that stopped the succession of global wars. Seems we did OK leaving a legacy of technological progress including health, communication and a man on the moon, If only those coming after us were as good!
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:11am
- alex Masterley
  
  I am one of the last “proud boomers” being born in 1962.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:21am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    You little pup you. March 55, mother heating the copper to do the washing
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:05am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Paulus,
      You have 6 years on me (1961). With 8 years to go before I make a visit to the MSD office, I think I know how to fill in a form correctly.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:33pm
      - tranquil
        
        Another 1961-er checking in here……. 🙂
        
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        November 14, 2019 7:00pm
- G152
  
  Feb ’41
  
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  November 14, 2019 10:13am
  - rockape
    
    Too old for a boomer! At least the generation after you respected what you did for them.
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:50am
- MCos
  
  I’m a boomer.
  What I don’t like is people being bashed on no other pretex than age, religion, race, income, occupation (as long as it’s honest), party preference, complexion, mode of transport or anything that in itself isn’t detestable
  There are plenty of detestable boomers around just as there are plenty of admirable young people.
  Personally there’s no way I took personal offense at what Chloe said, I thought it was quite funny and didn’t think much of it until it was blown up out of all proportion by the easily offended egged on by the yellow press.
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:03pm
  - rockape
    
    Pity her Boomer parents didn’t give her a good slap when she was young. Could have cured her ageism. Its maybe not too late!
    
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    November 14, 2019 6:38pm
Maggie Pie

Honestly, there are times that my partner really makes me wonder 🙁
He’s always the first to tell people how much he despises this Col guvmint and everything they stand for. Yet last night, he sits up late watching the replay of Question Time, then comes to bed and proceeds to tell me, “…how attractive he finds Labor MP Jo Luxton, and wonders why she’s not with the Nats”.
I’m lying there thinking…. WTF?
Now to be honest, i’ve never actually heard of her. So this morning I did a quick Google search. Can’t wait till he gets home tonite to tell him that fifteen years ago she rejected her Pakeha heritage, and decided to identify as Maori. LOL!!!
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November 14, 2019 8:19am
- chaos
  
  Tell him to get his eyes fixed. Ah jo the thief. Needed to raise money for her early childhood centre, asked the farmers that sent kids there for meat, then decided it was donated to her and refused to pay them for it.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:56am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Would that have been around the time she identified as Maori by any chance?
    
    Asking for a friend
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:48am
    - chaos
      
      Na after, I wonder if the Māori part was to try get funding for her businesses.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:13am
- pdm
  
  A dangerous thing to say at any time – let alone in bed.
  
  Are you cutting `his rations’ off Maggie?
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You mean the Krispy Kremes?
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:50am
    - sooty
      
      More for you!
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:48pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        😛
        
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        November 14, 2019 1:10pm
JibberJabber

Arderns press secretary drops an absolute bombshell regarding her (Ardern) attitude towards appearing for interviews.
This morning Newshub leads with a High tide in Venice, Stuffed began with a Show trial in Washington and now headlines with a train drivers memories of the 2016 Kaikoura earthquake.
With this protection racket running from the media and Mallard it`s no wonder she won`t answer questions in Parliament.
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November 14, 2019 8:19am
- sooty
  
  What do we have to about the useless media in this country?
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:15am
  - Sacha
    
    What do we have to do to get her back on Canterbury Radio?
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:50pm
- tf78
  
  I saw those photos of Venice which reminded me of photos around the Eiffel Tower a few years ago with flooding all around. My son was there at the time and said there was no such flooding. What to believe.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:40am
Happychappy

With the trial of Ann Tolley, Paula Bennett, MSD and senior staff members in the Winston Peter’s Pension leaks will the Herald and Bryce Edward’s be made to retract their statement ” Winston Peter’s puts Dirty on Trial”. I believe with many others this was a blatant attack on the two National MP’s character and now the charges have been withdrawn there needs to be a retraction.
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November 14, 2019 8:20am
- peterwn
  
  Looked on the Herald web site just now. Zilch on the case, not even behind a paywall. Stuff has an article – the one Tim Murphy wrote for Newsroom (Stuff re-published it with permission).
  Tim – a hearty thanks for being the only journo to fully cover this case and keeping us well informed.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:45am
  - Nookin
    
    Not only did he keep us well-informed, one sensed that we were getting an accurate narrative and not a sequence of one-liners taken out of context. Well done, Tim.
    One point though. It is “cause of action” and not “course of action”
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:56am
Paulus

David Seymour is to be congratulated on the years of work he has done on the End of Life Bill which is now to go to the electorate – remember that in the UK Brexit the people voted exit and the politicians disagreed.
However my point is that with such a conscience vote last evening the two most unelected parties the Greens and Peters voted en bloc.
Neither parties have electorates, being pure politically arranged lists so they, unlike others I have heard of, sought opinions from their electorates.
Should the real elected MPs go against their electorates they can be outed at the next election, whereas the list members are only at the political whim of their leaders _ Peters and their Party _ eg Greens.
How can this be democratic – assuming it is supposed to be ?
I have no comment as to the vote here only the stupidity of MMP.
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November 14, 2019 8:21am
mandk

They don’t join the dots.

First we heard about the worst typhoon in Japan for 60 years and we are told it is due to climate change.

Now we hear about the worst floods in Venice since 1966, also attributed to climate change.

But it doesn’t occur to them that the logical implication is that climatic conditions are now better than they were all those years ago.
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November 14, 2019 8:22am
- marcw
  
  So what caused the “worst” typhoon 60 years ago; or the “worst floods 50 years ago? Could it have been the ever changing climate chaotic patterns, which are absolutely normal?
  
  These climate change catastrophists are just embarrassing now – especially our ‘special’ Victoria University trougher.
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:51am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And how about the explanation that it’s Global warming that is setting Record Cold temperatures through the Northern Hemisphere this week.
    
    https://notrickszone.com/2019/11/13/n-hemisphere-in-hypothermia-widespread-early-winter-historic-snowstorms-record-books-rewritten/
    
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/12/arctic-blast-has-arrived-in-the-eastern-usnumerous-record-low-temperatures-by-early-wednesday/
    
    https://electroverse.net/sweden-suffers-its-biggest-november-snowstorms-in-40-years/
    
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    November 14, 2019 9:01am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      MW, the science of conncting extreme weather events with climate change is all here,
      
      https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/science-connecting-extreme-weather-climate-change
      
      Did not Anthony Watts claim he was a Purdue Uni graduate ?
      
      Clarify please.
      
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      November 14, 2019 9:56am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’ve no idea what Anthony Watts claimed…although it is well known he took electrical engineering and meteorology courses at Purdue University without completing his degree.
        
        But lots of people find there are reasons not to complete a degree and still manage to be successful.
        
        Anthony Watts runs “The world’s most viewed site on global warming and climate change”
        https://wattsupwiththat.com/
        
        David Farrar runs NZ’s best blog without a degree.
        he didn’t graduate from Otago, or from Victoria University, where his part-time studies in the mid-1990s were interrupted by a job offer for what would become an eight-year stint with the National Party
        https://www.noted.co.nz/archive/archive-listener-nz-2012/kiwiblog-david-farrars-nine-year-old-baby
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:20am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        “Clarify please.”
        
        Fuck off please.
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:45am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Fuck off please
        Yes, stephieboy has an annoying habit of demanding answers ( & often on very personal matters) but refusing to respond to other folks’ queries.
        
        However, I’m always happy to place a link to Anthony Watts’ blog each time stephieboy launches a personal attack against him.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:06pm
      - stephieboy
        
        MW,
        
        “Yes, stephieboy has an annoying habit of demanding answers” … to difficult and inconvenient questions!
        
        Like here,
        
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anthony_Watts
        
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        November 14, 2019 1:52pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Do you want to rake over the HADCRUT emails?
        There is plenty on the other side to show the politics behind the climate change frighteners.
        
        If the weather actually gets colder some people will be facing jail time.
        
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        November 14, 2019 5:38pm
    - cut n paster
      
      Ohh but … Gen X had Nuclear Mutually Assured Destruction to content with…
      There’s always got to be a boogieman scaring the children (it’s in the RED manifesto).
      “I can’t sleep Mummy, we’re all going to die..”
      
      Anyway science vs feelz…
      https://ibb.co/J2Mdhrd
      Piers Corbyn – if you haven’t heard him, seek him out. 🙂
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:18am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        He is St Jezza of Islington’s Brother
        
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        November 14, 2019 11:13am
    - DigNap15
      
      But Stuff says the science is settled.
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:03pm
- Straight arrow
  
  Fires in Australia: management of forest debris, at least 10 arsonists.
  Floods in UK (and rest of Europe): Because of an EU directive it is much harder to get permission to dredge waterways that traditionally were dredged.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep, a resident of Fishlake is surprised her house was flooded when the Don overflowed.
    
    Adrian Gill, a flood manager with the Environment Agency, said it did not currently dredge the River Don “because we don’t think that’s the right thing to do” but the situation could be reviewed in the future.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50372839
    
    You would have thought the name of the village was a clue to its history, wouldn’t you?
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:22am
    - mandk
      
      There were also catastrophic floods a few years ago on the Somerset Levels in the UK – all because the waterways ceased to be maintained properly.
      
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      November 14, 2019 10:44am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Every couple of years there are catastrophic floods in the UK. Further they can be anytime of year. Check out the flooding in the UK in the summer of 2007.
        
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        November 14, 2019 1:42pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Diabetes Day!
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November 14, 2019 8:25am
- MCos
  
  I don’t know why ‘happy’ is attached to the front of some of these commemoration days.
  The other day was Armistice Day for a good part of the world and Veterans Day in the USA.
  We have Anzac Day. Then there’s Memorial Day and Remembrance Day.
  Should any of these be prefixed ‘Happy’ as I’ve seen by people who don’t quite know how else to express themselves?
  
  So em squared, what are you going to say on the 19th; 40 years after Erebus?
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands.
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:03am
    - rockape
      
      Its not PC to clap your hands anymore lefties want the hand wave!
      
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      November 14, 2019 6:31pm
hullkiwi

So, after all the witnesses and summing up by the lawyers for the Crown, we get Brian Henry summing up. In summary, Winston’s case rests on:
1. We acknowledge that Tolley and Bennett were probably not the source of the leak; and
2. The source of the leak was probably someone in MSD.

Putting in politely what a load of cobblers.

Other than proving some journalists received phone calls with information about Winston’s pension overpayment, they have not even proved that the source was categorically not someone connected to Winston, let alone any damage to Winston’s reputation.

This case was a sham from the start. Hopefully:
1. The judge will find against Winston and award significant costs against him; and
2. That Parker will send the bill to Winston and he will pay the amount out of his own pocket (neither of which will happen).
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November 14, 2019 8:25am
- peterwn
  
  Although the Crown is meeting Paula’s and Anne’s costs, their lawyer is not beholden to the Crown and will ask for costs from Winston in the usual manner and take whatever action is needed to recover them as for any other case. Unfortunately he is only likely to get scale 2B costs, so there will be a significant shortfall which the Crown has to meet. He will pass on any recoveries to the Crown. It will have not cost Paula or Anne anything.
  Assuming Winston loses with respect to the departments and their CE’s, Crown Law will similarly seek costs and the Attorney-General would be very unwise to intervene.
  It could be the secret coalition agreement contains a clause indemnifying Winston with regard to costs, but Labour would have been extremely unwise to have included such a clause.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:06am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Peter I understand your comments and appreciate the scaling for awarding of costs.
    
    However there are some principles at stake here, not least Winstone took a frivolous case with no merit to court. He was seeking $1.8million in damages from the parties, on questionable grounds.
    
    In the end, this case has amounted to nothing more than a publicity stunt for the Toxic Gnome at the taxpayer’s expense.
    
    In my opinion, if the testimony and evidence was presented as reported by Murphy, there is a good chance that Peters, Trotman and maybe Soper were not correctly present accurate versions of the facts. If so, the 3 of them deserve to be facing perjury charges. Peter’s needs to learn there are consequences for his falsehoods.
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:18am
    - Michael
      
      and Soper.
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:29pm
    - peterwn
      
      Perjury charges are very rare even where it is obvious that perjury has occurred. Main example would be where someone faced wrongful conviction because of a witness telling obvious porkies.
      The most interesting perjury prosecution was against a Stipendary Magistrate (now called a District Court Judge) who told porkies in a child custody case. The Chief Justice put him down for 6 months and he had to re-build his life.
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:32pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Yes you are correct, perjury cases are rare because it is a case of proving what was said (or presented) was done so in a manner setting out to deceive and it was done deliberately.
        
        The best example I know was the Jeffery Archer case from 2000. Archer was found guilty of perjury and perverting the course of justice (he had concocted evidence) arising from his earlier “successful” libel case against the Daily Star. Details can be found easily on the web.
        
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        November 14, 2019 2:09pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Deluded belief is not falsehood–it may result in expensive folly.
      
      At the meeting with Simon Bridges today Peters was the principal topic of concern. He has passed his use-by date.
      
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      November 14, 2019 5:29pm
- Straight arrow
  
  My understanding is there was a breach of privacy, by a MSD staffer, and both sides agree was not National ministers.
  As regard damages, it appears that media did not state it was Peters, and Peters outed himself as the person in the media reports. Hence, like another high profile case, his actions caused any damages he suffered. In law, he has a responsibilty to minimise damages, which he did not do by outing himself.
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:37am
Simon

Impeachment coup attempt massive fail. Just so much soy. Look at those clowns.

No wonder the world hated US foreign policy pre Trump.
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November 14, 2019 8:35am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Simon, the world just loves the power vacuums that Trump has left behind for Russia, China etc to full!
  
  Coup?
  
  Like this one?,
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Venezuelan_coup_d%27état#/media/File:23_de_enero_de_1958.jpg
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:51am
- MCos
  
  The impeachment of Trump is a forgone conclusion, just as the impeachment of Clinton was because in both cases the House is/was dominated by the opposing party.
  The real action takes place in the Senate where a 2/3 majority is required to remove him from office.
  Right now he’s safe.
  However
  Senators are not like normal jurors who can go about their business at the conclusion of the case. They have to face the electors and if something happens to turn the country overwhelmingly against Trump in the interim enough of them might cross the floor to swing the vote.
  Right now that isn’t looking likely.
  
  In the aftermath to Erebus Judge Mahon wrote a report that concluded he’d had to listen to an orchestrated litany of lies from Air NZ.
  Subsequently he lost two court cases brought by Air NZ. That didn’t matter to the general public who didn’t like Morrie Davies for a starter.
  Trump has portrayed himself as the eternal victim of establishment conniving.
  That’s why it’s going to take something more than just being right to take him down.
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:14am
- chaos
  
  And you’re the star witness, lol
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=350&v=BmjVYIIlTRI&feature=emb_logo
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:44am
Yvette

There is the instance, of course, when Mallard heard things – a disparagement of the Prime Minister – when no one else did. And then –

SPEAKER: Well, as the member knows, my hearing is much better in my right ear than my left ear, and I heard a lot of barracking from the left, and saw at least four members barracking from my left. As I indicated, I thought the National Party were relatively lucky to lose only two supplementaries. And I did not hear the noise from my right.
– Hansard https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansD_20180221_20180221

One can see why Mallard could be a little irked, since it’s the other ear that Bridges has pointed out may not entirely reflect everything occurring around it.

Hear! hear! – they may cry, but No, he not always does.
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November 14, 2019 8:37am
- Sofia
  
  Yvette
  I thought Mallard confirming it is his right ear that has better hearing, had always seemed a reasonable explanation as to why he is so left leaning.
  Which may be a comment rare in being both politically incorrect and politically correct at the same time.
  Sorry.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:44am
Maggie Pie

It’s almost like her face doesn’t believe what her mouth is saying 😀

https://twitter.com/Redbaiternz/status/1194370848515186688
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November 14, 2019 8:47am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Maggie Pie,
  
  Rabid Comrade RedBaiter?
  
  LOL!
  
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  November 14, 2019 8:57am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ah, dear old Redbaiter. I miss him terribly.
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:01am
- Inandout
  
  MP, the young guy standing behind Cinders looked momentarily skyward when she spoke, like we would do if an idiot was speaking. Let us hope he isn’t employed as one of her staffers…
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:15am
  - stephieboy
    
    Inandout , as if the PM and Joe and Jane Public care!
    
    1 29
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    November 14, 2019 9:57am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Looks like you`re famous Stephie, even Thomas Sowells` heard of you,
      
      Thomas Sowell
      It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:54am
      - stephieboy
        
        Thomas Sowell ? Who likened Obama to Adolf Hitler
        
        LOL
        
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        November 14, 2019 1:59pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Body language – Communications 101
    Eye flashing – Communications 102
    
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    November 14, 2019 10:27am
- cut n paster
  
  It’s a series of facial ticks, driven by the truth fighting to get out her considerable mouth….
  
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  November 14, 2019 10:23am
artemisia

Partnership visas for arranged marriages.

1200 declined since May, though no info as to application dates. Still not a trivial number, and also no indication how many applications were from
male / female. Can we deduce that arranged marriages would be much less attractive if there were not a local resident or citizen? What say there is a surge in applications now?

Interesting to see what other political parties propose before the next election. One set of rules would go down well with many voters.
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November 14, 2019 8:54am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partners mum reckons Shane Jones is right in what he says – there does seem to be an awful lot of Indians appearing here. Even Simon said, “One Chinaman is worth three Indians” [or words to the effect]
  
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  November 14, 2019 10:00am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Maggie
    The Subway in Tirau and the BP in Putaruru seem to be run by Indians now,
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:10am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Even though Ma’s getting on a bit, she doesn’t miss much, eh?
      
      7 1
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      November 14, 2019 11:42am
      - sooty
        
        I bet you are on your best behaviour around her.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:54pm
    - DigNap15
      
      I never patronise any food outlet run by Indians or any that have indians working there.
      I’m with you Shane
      
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      November 14, 2019 12:02pm
      - Batman
        
        So no curry ever? You never visit a dairy?
        
        Insert line about being fun at parties.
        
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        November 14, 2019 12:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        How about an outlet owned by Indians but ony employing white people to prepare and serve the food? Would that be okay?
        
        2 6
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        November 14, 2019 1:09pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        My partner thinks a lot like you do DigNap. Yet he still keeps a well fingered copy of Kama Sutra by the bed. Go figure.
        
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        November 14, 2019 1:39pm
      - sooty
        
        Let the fingers do the talking, Maggie pie!
        
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        November 14, 2019 4:43pm
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Almost all the petrol stations are staffed by indians
      
      4 0
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      November 14, 2019 4:19pm
      - kevn
        
        @Bobba… A cash business. That is where our Indian friends like to be, behind the till taking ca$h.
        
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        November 14, 2019 6:24pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      So?
      Indian origin owners or family workers will be hardworking and aiming to better themselves–a good example to many who have lost the work ethic.
      
      2 0
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      November 14, 2019 5:21pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No
    It was Jamie Lee-Ross:
    
    Ross: Two Chinese would be more valuable than two Indians, I have to say.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12144129
    
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    November 14, 2019 11:29am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Ahaa…thanks for clarifying that Maggs.
      Talk about ‘Chinese whispers!”
      
      LOL!
      
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      November 14, 2019 11:39am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh Maggie, should we put that in a little more context?
      
      Bridges: I mean, it’s like all these things, it’s bloody hard. You’ve only got so much space. Depends where we’re polling, you know? All that sort of thing…two Chinese would be nice, but would it be one Chinese or one Filipino? What do we do?
      Ross: Two Chinese would be more valuable than two Indians, I have to say.
      Bridges: Which is what we’ve got at the moment, right? Your problem there is you end up in a s***fight because you’ve got a list MP – you’ve got two list MPs – it’s a pretty mercenary cull – sitting MPs, all that s***. Then you’ve got the issue of, you could end up getting rinsed with list MPs and bringing in some of those new ones, and if you do that you’re just filling up your lists even further. You’ve got to sort of look after…I mean I reckon there’s two or three of our MPs, not talking about our obvious ones like Finlayson or Carter, the rest you just want to go. Like Maureen Pugh is f***ing useless.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:12pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        So Bridges was wanting representation of different groups.
        
        and Jamie-Lee Ross made a derogatory comparison of Indians with Chinese.
        
        Bridges deflected from JLRs racist slur and got back to discussing details.
        
        But folks can always put a different spin on things, eh?
        
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        November 14, 2019 6:12pm
- Jack5
  
  Leaving aside prejudices about sources of newcomers, it’s worth noting that New Zealand’s population growth rate is the highest among developed nations.
  
  This while our infrastructure – our health system, prisons, housing, transport – struggle to cope, and we have a persistent (nearly half a century) of balance of payments deficits.
  
  Meanwhile, Jacinderella with her eyes on international socialist fame, pries open our borders, helped by the hopeless Immigration Minister, Lees-Galloway.
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:03am
- hullkiwi
  
  Having gone through the process of applying with my wife for her Residency Visa (she is an Austrian) in 2013, I know how exhaustive the process is meant to be. I also know you are required to provide substantial evidence that you are indeed have been “partners” for at least 12 months. With respect to Asian arranged marriages I do not know how this can be, when in most instances the potential couple will not have even met each other. This class of visa is for couples who have been together at least 12 months, anything else is creating a precedent for a group of countries and cultural (racial and religious) traditions that do not accord with NZ’s immigration law. Countries such as the UK have had similar problems in the past and determined they will not permit immigration based on an arranged marriage. Indeed because of some of the results of arranged marriages in the UK there have been regular calls to get the practices of arranged marriages outlawed in the UK. Labour’s approach to satisfy the wishes of their party support is out of step with other Western Democracies.
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:38am
Swifty

In defence of English cooking, George Orwell, Dec 1945:

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/in-defence-of-english-cooking/
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November 14, 2019 9:24am
- stephieboy
  
  Ah for the grand old days of English cooking delights like bread dipped in dripping!
  
  http://cookit.e2bn.org/historycookbook/110-bread-and-dripping.html
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:59am
- MCos
  
  My late Salopian Mother was a quintessential English country cook. Pasta – never heard of it, rice – we had the occasional rice pudding.
  Her strong points were baking, desserts (always referred to as pudding), jams, marmalade, preserves and potatoes.
  Mountains of butter, dunes of sugar, lakes of milk, lumps of dripping and salt.
  Mum made it to 95; everyone else of her generation succumbed to strokes and heart attacks long before
  
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  November 14, 2019 12:32pm
Straight arrow

Cultural Appropriation or Exploitation of Maori.
1. Juliette Lewis has prompted outrage online after wearing a traditional Māori piupiu for a fashion photoshoot.
“@juliettelewis is not wahine Māori and should absolutely not be ‘playing dress-ups’ with a garment sacred to my culture.”
“The photo of you in a piupiu is deeply hurtful to Māori,”
“Our culture, our people, our ancestors have been colonised to the point of near genocide to our customs and language. Kia Kaha whanau who are feeling the mamae of this. Kia ora.”

2. The New Zealand Dental Association (NZDA) has lashed out at Coca-Cola for targeting Māori on soft drink labels, calling it “unethical and completely irresponsible.”
In a statement prepared with Māori public health body Hāpai te Hauora and Te Ao Mārama – The Māori Dental Association, NZDA sugary drinks spokesperson Rob Beaglehole said calls to action such as “‘Share a Coke with Whānau’ and ‘Share a Coke with Kuia” were “a subversive insidious way to connect with people who suffer a disproportionate amount of dental disease and harm from a public health perspective.”
But Hāpai Te Hauora CEO Selah Hart said the labelling was a sign that “violent acts of colonisation continue unopposed. They’ve just got a new vehicle in the new form of multinational companies.”

“This corporation which cares nothing for our mokopuna, our kuia and kaumātua, has appropriated our language to make a profit.

That was on Stuff, which regularly places Maori words into reports, for a profit. Coke responded:
“We worked hard to ensure we represented many popular names as well as reflect the diversity of cultures in Aotearoa today,” the Coke spokesperson said. “We felt it wouldn’t be right to dismiss anyone’s name due to ethnicity.”
Damned if they do…
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November 14, 2019 9:45am
- Sacha
  
  The Coke man could simply speak in European/English. Forget the Maori words.
  The Hoi Polloi among his clientele will still buy the product.
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:03pm
  - Batman
    
    No such language as European, Sacha.
    
    It seems the anti-Reo brigade have found a surprise ally in the form of the dental association!
    
    4 2
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    November 14, 2019 1:06pm
    - Jack5
      
      No language such as European, Batman, but there was Indo-European, and the parent of languages spoken by more than 2.6 billion people in Europe, Asia, the Americas, Australia, New Zealand …
      
      https://www.vistawide.com/languages/language_families_statistics1.htm
      
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      November 14, 2019 2:00pm
- Paulus
  
  I thought I lived in New Zealand, but must be in the wrong place.
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:32pm
- Nickc2
  
  Today must be International Outrage day. Can I be outraged when I see someone identifying as Maori dressed in western street clothes? You know, normal stuff!
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:46pm
  - rockape
    
    I seem to remember a certain scribble face in a kilt with a shotgun. As a Scott I am culturally offended.
    
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    November 14, 2019 6:19pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Scot? lol
      
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      November 14, 2019 8:27pm
Than

A science-fiction author (I forget which) is said to have once remarked “a fully realistic sex-robot would be the last invention humans would ever create”.

But that might be a good thing, because apparently the solution to climate change is to stop having kids.

So, clearly we need to re-direct the R&D funding current going into renewables into this vitally important area of research.
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November 14, 2019 9:50am
- Straight arrow
  
  Bloomberg ran two stories: One was that people should stop having babies, the other was that only immigrants can reverse America’s baby bust.
  Virtue signalling on both counts.
  
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  November 14, 2019 10:58am
- Jack5
  
  Already China and India are largely exempt from carbon-emission rules.
  
  Presumably Indians other Third Worlders will continue having big families, and Chinese family sizes will begin rising again.
  
  The article that “Than” links to in his post, and conclusions about national populations we could take from it, scarily mirror some of the ravings that sniper maniacs use to justify their massacres.
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:30am
  - DigNap15
    
    At least China makes stuff the world wants. Clothes, toys, planess, cars, car parts,
    
    Sadly India produces nothing but babies, and rubbish, pollution and scammers.
    
    India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are all the same.
    They all need to be forced to adopt a one child per woman policy for 50 years to get their populations down.
    With countries like them the Paris Accord targets will never be met.
    
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    November 14, 2019 12:00pm
    - Sacha
      
      @ DigNap15 – India has a thriving pharmaceutical industry. Ask your local chemist.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:06pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      And one per man
      
      0 0
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      November 14, 2019 8:21pm
Jack5

A tale of two countries.

In New Zealand, taxpayer’s subsidies help finance a Chinese Communist propaganda film.

In Australia, a new foreign interfence strategy will safeguard against Chinese Communist influence in universities.

In New Zealand:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117367305/chinese-propaganda-films-are-being-made-in-new-zealand-at-taxpayer-expense

In Australia:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/stronger-protections-for-uni-students-and-research-under-new-foreign-interference-strategy-20191113-p53aa9.html
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November 14, 2019 10:52am
- chaos
  
  Propaganda film? Right so they can’t make films for entertainment, I guess Rambo is propaganda film too and every other movie made around the world for entertainment purposes
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:09am
  - Jack5
    
    Didn’t know that NZ subsidised Rambo. Did it?
    
    There’s difference between entertainment in a free, democratic society, and entertainment in a totalitarian one.
    
    NZ seems also prepared to censor its own films to get them shown in China. This is from the Stuff report:
    
    New Zealand-made Mulan, directed by Whale Rider director Niki Caro, has copped criticism for its overly militaristic pro-China tone ahead of its release.
    
    People have threatened to boycott the film, after it’s star, Liu Yifei, posted a meme from the Communist Party’s People’s Daily saying “I support the Hong Kong police” on social media, alongside a heart emoji.
    
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    November 14, 2019 1:34pm
    - chaos
      
      Not really. The movie has the same bases as most action movies, in this one China is the hero saving the world, in American ones America is invading foreign nations to save the world. But oh no bad china for basically making the same kind of movie America and other countries make, the hypocrites won’t like that.
      
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      November 14, 2019 1:45pm
      - Jack5
        
        So the question becomes should we be subsidising films at all?
        
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        November 14, 2019 2:20pm
Jack5

We’re going to end up with Stalinist scale State media, if our Leftist government not only merges Television NZ and Red Radio but extends the present State-finance scheme which provides regional news to newspapers.

This will cement in Leftist media bias. You can bet also there will be amplification of current Maorification of our view of national history, and even greater promotion of English-Maori New Zealand Pidgin language.

Where are National and ACT when such creepy big-State plans are signalled?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117408959/govt-to-consider-replacing-rnz-tvnz-with-new-public-broadcaster
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November 14, 2019 11:16am
- Michael
  
  soiman is nowhere.
  
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  November 14, 2019 12:34pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Simon Bridges is in Christchurch today, in fine form.
    He has an excellent understanding of government and the need to see production to provide for a future.
    He was like Keith Holyoake. He has both the ability and the common touch.
    ☑️☑️
    
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    November 14, 2019 5:09pm
    - Morrissey
      
      Is he still crusading against slushies?
      
      3 9
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      November 14, 2019 6:04pm
  - kevn
    
    @mickey (mouse)… MSM aren’t doing their job. So not much Simon.
    
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    November 14, 2019 6:20pm
- Prince
  
  National has come out against the proposal.
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:06pm
  - Jack5
    
    Yes, Simon Bridges in this report at Radio NZ this afternoon, warning Naional “could” dismantle any plans to form one single State TV-Radio entity if National is in power after next year’s election.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/403272/bolstering-public-broadcasting-is-the-answer-ardern
    
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    November 14, 2019 2:37pm
- rockape
  
  When National take over next year it could work for them.
  
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  November 14, 2019 6:17pm
- Sacha
  
  Radio with Pictures?
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:12pm
Fletch

When you think of the “whistle blower”, what image comes to mind? A timid paper pusher who works in an open plan office who happened to hear (second hand) what Trump said on a phone call and whose identity must now be protected? Nothing could be further from the truth.

The whistle blower –

Works for the CIA – one of Brennan’s guys.
Is probably the “Charlie” referenced in texts between Page and Sztrok.
Worked in the Obama White House and was the contact for Alexandra Chalupa who was tasked by Hillary’s DNC to coordinate with Ukraine on collecting dirt on Trump and Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager.

In their recent analysis of the visitor logs, the nonprofit examined his ties to Alexandra Chalupa, a contractor hired by the DNC during the 2016 election. She reportedly coordinated with Ukraine to investigate President Trump and his former campaign manager Paul Manafort. The logs showed Chalupa visited the White House 27 times and that her point of contact was Ciaramella. Judicial Watch released a detailed list of several other questionable figures who visited the presidential mansion.

The whistle blower worked closely with Joe Biden in the White House and ran the meeting where he pressured Ukrainian diplomat Telizhenko to drop the Burisma investigation.

https://twitter.com/FOOL_NELSON/status/1183072792906010625

To summarize:
The Whistleblower is a fact witness to the Biden quid pro quo, and the strong-arming of Ukraine to shut down the Burisma probe.
He’s tied to the efforts by the DNC and Obama Administration to use Ukraine to dirty up Trump during the 2016 election. Dirt that led to the Trump Russia Collusion black op.
He conspired with Adam Schiff and his seedy, impeachment planning lawyer to whip up the frenzy over Trump’s call.

https://stream.org/eve-impeachment-hearings-now-know-whistleblower-ran-schiff/

And why all this now? Because Trump and Barr were getting too close. These liberals did not want Trump investigating the Ukraine and the dirty dealings done there.

As I have said before, this whole thing is orchestrated. A set up between Schiff and this guy. It’s all coordinated in an effort to get rid of Trump.
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November 14, 2019 11:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness
  
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  November 14, 2019 11:51am
- stephieboy
  
  “The Whistleblower is a fact witness to the Biden quid pro quo, and the strong-arming of Ukraine to shut down the Burisma probe.”
  
  Trump the king of deflections!
  
  Fact!
  
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  November 14, 2019 2:02pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Fact = Farts Accompany Cow Turds.
    TDS again. Try disease suppositories.
    
    7 1
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    November 14, 2019 5:03pm
Fletch

In his opening statement Devin Nunes speaks truth-to-power on what the Democrats are trying to do. I am wondering how Schiff, sitting beside him, stops himself from turning red or wilting in embarrassment and shame. But the man is a disgrace, and has no shame…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vylTr2dRGu8
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November 14, 2019 11:21am
Maggy Wassilieff

Couple of questions on Farms and conversion to forestry being asked in the House today.
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/order-paper-questions/list-of-oral-questions/oral-questions-14-november-2019/

I wonder how much TV time today’s March on Parliament by the Farming Community (The Bark-Up) will get.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/117319053/thousands-expected-to-join-farmers-protest-march-on-parliament
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November 14, 2019 11:37am
John Warren

Check out the astonishing entitlement of Ms Leanne Apiti.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/403101/new-zealand-s-dying-towns

From the article:

Changes to the social welfare system in 2007 meant that those receiving the benefit had to look for, and accept, any work that was offered to them. Apiti says these changes saw people leaving town if they could not commute to jobs outside of Kawhia, taking their families with them.

“I’m an example of that. When I first had my first baby, I could take a year off and be on some kind of benefit and there was no problem, no issues. By the time I had my last child, my husband had to move out of town, get a job, and I was only able to have a few weeks off.”
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November 14, 2019 12:19pm
Odakyu-sen

“Shrinking number of judges come from poor households or have any experience of poverty, Chief Justice Helen Winkelmann says”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284840

Another virtue-signaller. If you bring in a policy to employ “judges who grew up in poor families” to achieve equality of outcome, then would that not be discriminatory against those candidates who had the misfortune to be born into non-poor households?

How is that even remotely fair?
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November 14, 2019 12:40pm
- Jack5
  
  Side issue, but look at the photo of Chief Justice Helen Winkelmann with the Herald report, and compare it with the one with the Wikipedia entry on her.
  
  Has the Herald slipped up?
  
  The Herald:
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12284840
  
  Wikipedia:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Winkelmann
  
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  November 14, 2019 2:13pm
  - sooty
    
    God she’s had a younger change!
    How did she do that?
    
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    November 14, 2019 4:38pm
  - srylands
    
    It is the same person in each photo. Glasses and hair style change. And different photo angle.
    
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    November 14, 2019 4:41pm
Michael

I suspect, very little.
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November 14, 2019 12:42pm
curry4me

Here is today’s Brexit news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mdqm3r4gCY
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November 14, 2019 12:43pm
Michael

Ian Plimmer worth watching.

First 2 mins priceless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMfYjKauHbs
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November 14, 2019 12:51pm
Michael

Dawa
The hidden danger to NZ.
Apart from Winston Peters…
Ayaan Hirsi Ali clearly enunciates the risk.

https://www.document.dk/2017/04/10/new-ways-of-responding-to-extremist-islam/
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November 14, 2019 1:03pm
- Jack5
  
  Clicked on the link, Michael, and got the message “refused to connect”.
  
  Are censors shutting down comment by Ayaan Hirsi Ali?
  
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  November 14, 2019 2:16pm
- stephieboy
  
  Michael, ” extremist Islam like anything extremist cant be a good things,
  
  More about her here ,
  
  https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali
  
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  November 14, 2019 2:58pm
- stephieboy
  
  Michael, when there is a equivleant Christchurch Mosque attack then the time is maybe getting concerned!
  
  Not before then!
  
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  November 14, 2019 3:02pm
Fletch

The impeachment hearing – Schiff interrupts GOP questioning a witness (Taylor) half way through, breaching Congressional order, when a question comes up Schiff doesn’t like.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/11/13/republicans-stunned-after-adam-schiff-interrupts-impeachment-hearing/

John Ratcliffe making a great point: Adam Schiff just apparently changed the rules mid-hearing.

Virtually every question Democrats asked was leading, hearsay, or some other federal evidence rules violation. Now Schiff seems to be saying he can enforce those rules.

Unreal.

— Mark Meadows (@RepMarkMeadows) November 13, 2019

Unbelievable.
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November 14, 2019 1:19pm
- stephieboy
  
  Breitbart who have us Pizzagate, Dortmund etc
  
  Well I never !
  
  1 19
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  November 14, 2019 2:03pm
Maggie Pie

What about this silly old muppet…… 😀

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJO_VQgXkAAdY0b?format=jpg&name=small
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November 14, 2019 1:21pm
- chaos
  
  Is she helping Winston fill out his pension application?
  
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  November 14, 2019 1:42pm
Bob R

That Feminism event that Massey cancelled is now to be hosted at Parliament. Naturally, the Spinoff and followers on the facebook page are not happy. It must be stopped!

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/14-11-2019/controversial-transphobic-event-feminism-2020-event-to-be-held-at-parliament/
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November 14, 2019 1:34pm
- MCos
  
  I wonder what those so called feminists would make of this?
  Chulalongkhorn University transgender students can now wear uniform of either gender.
  
  BTW
  What’s ACT’s raisin d’etre these days?
  
  https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1793354/chulas-transgender-students-can-now-wear-uniform-of-choice?fbclid=IwAR0n4P0uGJBtfi1hkiPYWZhw3Mpn_PtwLI1q5rV72-SI7f9Rzhiu28TQtX4
  
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  November 14, 2019 3:25pm
- sooty
  
  Acts, Savid Seymour is hosting in parliment as Massy Uni banned them as it might upset all the LQGBT and it’s and make them woddle to their safe space and have a lie down!
  
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  November 14, 2019 4:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

When NZ Police confuse law with lore.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403273/former-inspector-repeatedly-abused-power-ipca
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November 14, 2019 2:19pm
- secondcumming
  
  *IPCA chair Judge Colin Doherty*….yet another shiny arse trougher sitting in judgement of hard working front-line cops, out there every day doing their best to take ferals off our streets.
  No wonder these experienced guys are leaving the Force in droves! All being replaced with a bunch of young naive tattooed taxi drivers hoping for a starring role on *Police 10-7*. What a sick joke.
  
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  November 14, 2019 4:01pm
Happychappy

Has this Government set a course of self destruction with the arrogant attitude of their Ministers.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285201
Winston Peter’s has often referred about if it wasn’t for NZ First the farmers wouldn’t be looked after at all so letting Shane Jones loose to taunt and ridicule the farmers today at Parliment won’t help the voter to change there mind on how arrogant this Government is.
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November 14, 2019 2:45pm
- rockape
  
  The COl members are out of control, certainly Jacinda ‘s control. The run up to the election will be fun as they rip each other to bits over left-wing votes. I am so looking forward to the 2020 election.
  
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  November 14, 2019 6:12pm
niggly

So Magictalk radio news this afternoon has been mentioning farmers have been protesting at Parliament all afternoon, with Shane Jones even insulting the farmers by calling them “rednecks” (way to go jonesy – kick regional/rural farmers when they are already down, NZF loose more voters)!

Yet not a mention on Stuff/Herald and RNZ websites!

Brief mention on TVNZ though (only probably because it makes for “good television” having a good ol’ protest)!
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/hundreds-farmers-march-parliament-protesting-emissions-targets-water-regulation
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November 14, 2019 3:23pm
- Inandout
  
  niggly, RNZ and TVNZ are in the throes of changing so don’t expect any meaningful reporting from them, and Stuff/Herald are hurting badly financially; govt handout?
  
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  November 14, 2019 5:03pm
All_on_Red

Ken Starr – “The Senate has the power to block all hearsay evidence.”

Be a short ‘trial’ then.
Also
‘The Senate will not consider the impeachment efforts against President Donald Trump to be legitimate if the whistleblower doesn’t testify, said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who chairs the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee.

“I consider any impeachment in the House that doesn’t allow us to know who the whistleblower is to be invalid because without the whistleblower complaint we wouldn’t be talking about any of this,” Graham said on Sunday’
‘It’s impossible to bring this case forward, in my view, fairly without us knowing who the whistleblower is and having a chance to cross-examine them about any biases they may have,” Graham said. “So if they don’t call the whistleblower in the House, this thing is dead on arrival in the Senate.”

FISA report soon. Looks like a few Pawns are being sacrificed to try to deflect from that and the indictments coming. (Barr dropped a hint today)
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November 14, 2019 5:14pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s a bit silly wittering on about ‘hearsay’ when this whole thing could be cleared up by direct testimony from Trump, Sondland, Bolton, Mulvaney and Giuliani. It’s not like they have anything to hide, after all.
  
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  November 14, 2019 5:27pm
- Fletch
  
  I read one blogger from PJ Media say that it won’t go to trial in the Senate because the Senate has a GOP majority and they will be able to call the witnesses they want, etc, which the Dems won’t like.
  
  But now consider what happens if they do prepare Articles and have them actually voted out of the House. (Which isn’t actually a foregone conclusion given the polling.)
  
  They have to go to trial in the Republican-dominated Senate. Where Eric Ciaramella can be called for public testimony under oath. Where Alex Vindman can be challenged by a former JAG about his violations of the UCMJ. Where people can be called to testify in public what they’ve said in the Star Chamber: that Ukraine never knew about aid being suspended, and that the president of Ukraine denies any pressure. And where House Members can’t be threatened with ethics complaints for asking inconvenient questions.
  
  Where what already looks like a shady investigation of a made-up crime can’t be controlled.
  
  My guess is that this will hang on until after Thanksgiving, especially if the ICIG report comes out. Then they will announce in high dudgeon that because of GOP obstruction and the risk to the (still “secret”) whistleblower, along with the proximity to the election, they can’t press on in the Senate where the evil Mitch McConnell will drag out the trial and thwart the will of the People.
  
  They might even try to continue the “inquiry” into the New Year, although the risk grows every day that Republicans will start leaking seriously, or filing more ethics complains against the Democrats — or, of course, starting subpoenas in the Senate.
  
  But an actual impeachment trial? They can’t risk it.
  
  https://pjmedia.com/trending/prediction-no-impeachment/
  
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  November 14, 2019 5:52pm
freemark

Vomit alert. This came via Neighbourly, which may be an organ of Stuff I think? Subject of message is “What do you love about NZ ****? Well, I thought great, I’ll reply to the useless b***h with what I think about what she’s done to NZ- but no reply function unfortunately.

“Kia ora ****,

There are a lot of things I love about New Zealand, and Miramar is one of them – because one of the best things about Aotearoa is our sense of community.

We’re always keen to give everyone a fair go, share with others, and lend a hand when it’s needed. We’re not shy about looking out for those who need extra support or pitching in to do our bit on the hard jobs.

It’s these things that make our communities great – and they’re the things that we’re focused on too.

As Prime Minister, I’ve made it a priority to tackle some of the long-term challenges facing New Zealand that I think have been ignored for too long.

Improving mental health in our communities, rebuilding our health system, helping more Kiwis into homes and cleaning up our rivers are things that will take time, but we’re making good progress.

Our work in housing is a good example of this. Over the past two years, we’ve built more than 2,000 state houses. We’re also supporting renters and first home buyers by making it easier to save for a deposit and ensuring rentals are healthy and dry.

The challenges we face in housing have taken decades to develop, but we’ve made a good start – and we’re already seeing a difference. For instance, almost one-quarter of all buyers in the housing market are now first home buyers.

We’re also making sure everyone can access the healthcare they need, when they need it. After years of underinvestment, our health system will take time to rebuild, but we’re getting on with the job. Literally, in some cases – by building hospitals and upgrading medical centres around the country.

We’re also rolling out a new frontline mental health service, so you can get support at your local GP or medical centre. And we’ve added more than 2,000 nurses and doctors to our health workforce. And on climate change, we’ve set a target of keeping warming under 1.5 degrees, stopped new offshore oil and gas exploration permits, and invested in new renewable technologies and public transport.

That’s about it from me, but before I wrap up, I just want to say thanks for all you do to make your community a better place.

Whether you’re lending a hand with the neighbour’s lawns, cleaning up the local reserve, or giving people a community to turn to online – every action counts.

Best wishes,
Jacinda

This is an unpaid community message from the Office of the Prime Minister – brought to you by Neighbourly.”
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November 14, 2019 5:37pm
- Michael Rodent
  
  I got this message on Neighbourly personally addressed to me from Jacinda. I have reported the message as offensive and deactivated my Neighbourly account giving the reason that they have crossed the line by engaging in such political propaganda. Perhaps no surprise as Stuff and Neighbourly have common ownership.
  
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  November 14, 2019 7:16pm
  - sooty
    
    How do you get neighbourly of your computor.
    I tried it, didn’t like it and can’t figure out how to dump it!
    
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    November 14, 2019 8:27pm
JibberJabber

https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1194782001422721024

BOMBSHELL:

Leaked documents from the Ukrainian General Prosecutor’s office indicate complex money transfers from foreign sources into the control of a “slush fund” owned and operated by Devon Archer, John Kerry Senior, John Kerry Junior, Heinz Jr, and Hunter Biden.

Bidens skiting,

Joe Biden at the Council on Foreign Relations:

“So I said to Poroshenko (Ukrainian President) & Yatsenuk (Ukr PM):

If you don’t fire the prosecutor investigating my son, we’re going to withhold the $1 billion in aid.”

https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1177028193569538048

How`s that impeachment going Joe ?
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November 14, 2019 5:46pm
- MCos
  
  Not quite as simple as you suggest. Biden didn’t say what you say he said he did. Listen again. In fact the prosecutor wasn’t investigating anyone and a number of people wanted Shokin replaced by someone who would.
  
  https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html
  
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  November 14, 2019 9:21pm
greybeard

This article on Stuff:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/117429451/damning-report-alleges-christchurch-city-council-staff-kept-negative-information-secret-manipulated-reports

I worked for a council for 5 years, after a lifetime of private employers.

I learned very quickly that the elected councillors had very little to do with the decision-making process: that was the job of group managers, the CEO, and selected ideologically-driven employees.

And what made it worse, some of those employees were appointed by their managers, and did not go through a competitive selection process where the position was contested by applicants. They may previously have been consultants or part-time ‘advisors’ .

Many council employees have had little or more likely no private employment experience.

I also found very quickly that the elected councillors and Mayor were egotists and in several cases bloody thick.
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November 14, 2019 6:09pm
Fletch

A second whistleblower blows the whistle on the Ukraine whistleblower who “may have violated federal law by indirectly soliciting more than a quarter-million dollars from mostly anonymous sources via a GoFundMe page.”

Legally, the second whistleblower complaint alleges that these indirect solicitations through a GoFundMe page constitute “gifts” in violation of both regulatory and statutory law. The complaint cites both 5 CFR 2635.203 and 18 U.S.C. §§ 208-209 as possible areas of violation. Fox News has uploaded the full complaint, which was provided courtesy of the second whistleblower’s law firm, Tully Rinckey PLLC.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/bombshell-another-whistleblower-comes-forward-files-complaint-against-ukraine-whistleblower-for-soliciting-illicit-donations-report-suggests

Seems like it’s getting worse every day.
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November 14, 2019 7:25pm
Jack5

Wow! Are the police practising mobile shock treatment?

Of the people the police taser, one in four is mentally ill. That’s the assertion of the Mental Health Foundation and is based on figures for 2016. The foundation says the trend has continued.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/403315/people-with-mental-health-problems-will-be-shot-by-new-armed-police-mhf
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November 14, 2019 7:53pm
Jack5

Crypto currency – blockchain technology – is dead, says Bloomberg in a report in The Age, of Melbourne.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/markets/blockchain-is-dead-crypto-enthusiasts-losing-faith-in-technology-20191114-p53ag0.html
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November 14, 2019 7:58pm
jonnycomelately

In this the year of delivery, the beehive barbie has clearly abandoned homeless families and children in poverty in favour of period poverty?
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November 14, 2019 10:13pm

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