General Debate 16 November 2019

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Yvette

Locals in Leitrim [Ireland] are trying to block the widespread planting of Sitka spruce trees

When the musician and dancer Edwina Guckian was a child in the 1980s and heard there was to be a forest planted behind her family’s farmhouse in Co Leitrim, she thought it was going to be like a fairy story and Disney combined.
“We thought, lovely, a forest park we could roam through. We’d meet Bambi!”

Then the trees were planted, tight row upon tight row of Sitka spruces. If this was a fairytale, it was a dark one.

“By the time I was 13 I’d copped on,” she says. “This is load-of-crap forestry, miles upon miles of it. It was never even thinned out. Sometimes our cattle go in and get lost. You can spend weeks searching for them.

“It is dark as night time in there all day. You’d be afraid you’d get lost so you have to have people with torches outside. One time we couldn’t find the cattle and they came out weeks later, starving. Everything is dead in there. There is nothing living.”
– The Irish Times, November 15
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November 16, 2019 8:07am
- Swifty
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS1stc-sYUc
  
  Will we see the same here?
  
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  November 16, 2019 8:17am
- The Real Tony
  
  Has the lass not heard of fences to stop her cattle wandering?
  
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  November 16, 2019 8:19am
- nasska
  
  …..”Sometimes our cattle go in and get lost. You can spend weeks searching for them”…..
  
  Look in the Yellow Pages under “Fencing Contractors”.
  
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  November 16, 2019 8:23am
  - peterwn
    
    They probably do not know what fences are. The nearest would be stone walls or thick gorse or similar hedges. The shepherds who watched their flocks by night never had fences.
    
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    November 16, 2019 8:35am
  - artemisia
    
    Fences. Boring. No media mileage.
    
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    November 16, 2019 8:41am
  - mark15
    
    Yes,they won bronze in the 2012 olympics.
    
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    November 16, 2019 9:42am
  - sooty
    
    Or at least put a bell around their neck!
    
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    November 16, 2019 9:42am
- ldypen
  
  Has to be a government job, if anyone can sell a BS story, convince the public then screw it up it’s government.. different country same result every time.
  
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  November 16, 2019 8:31am
- kevn
  
  Plenty of neglected forestry blocks in NZ, especially up north. Landowners plant and seem to think “that’s it”. Ends up low grade with mega slash left behind and very poor returns.
  
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  November 16, 2019 8:37am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  There’s a similar problem of poorly managed cedar forestry in mountainous, rural Japan. The average age of residents of mountainous, rural Japanese villages has to be upwards of 60.
  
  Although the forest cover of Japan is high, a lot of this is cedar plantations. The management, thinning and disease control of some of this has not been good in the last couple of decades, on account of a lack of capital and manpower.
  
  For example, the recent severe typhoons (Nos. 15 and 19) that slammed into the Chiba region on the big peninsula to the east of the Bay of Tokyo caused worse power outages than expected on account of so many weakened trees getting blown over and taking the power lines down with them.
  
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  November 16, 2019 9:48am
- JackRabbit
  
  @Yvette
  
  As you point out, the big problem is that the forest is forgotten, not maintained by thinning or dead trees removed.
  
  Trees continually emit methane which increases rapidly once they hit maturity. At maturity they start consuming O2 and emit the CO2 they absorbed when they were growing. At maturity they add to atmospheric CO2, not that CO2 levels anywhere are dangerous.
  
  Dry dead trees emitting large quantities of methane, become tinder waiting for a spark and a massive fire risk. And of course when they go up in flames, they emit vast quantities of CO2 and Carbon Monoxide, destroy homes and take the lives of people, livestock and wildlife.
  
  When they go up in flames the Green numpties (yes it is word) go “Oh, that’s Global Warming”. They are numpties because they are very vocal about things they don’t understand.
  
  1) Greenies have campaigned to plant and never not cut down trees, in order to “protect” the environment. This includes banning the creation of fire breaks close to populated areas.
  
  2) Indigenous people, including Aborigines, knew the importance of fire breaks and controlled burn-offs during the cool seasons. That was all put to a stop by Greenie factions. So when dry forests ignite, it is never a lack of thinning or controlled burn-offs, it is “Climate Change”
  
  3) The same goes for the 2018 California fires. Again it was “Climate Change”. However in 2017 concern was raised by officials that due to a lack of getting rid of dead trees, that there was an extreme fire risk.
  
  All the actions taken by Green lobbying to “protect the environment” is going to end up creating environmental damage that would not have occurred without the Green lobbying. In other words, panic knee-jerk action taken to prevent the imaginary disaster of man made Climate Change, ends up creating a real Climate Change, through those mis-guided actions. It is very much an example of “The Butterfly Effect”.
  
  As for Greenies and Greta claiming to understand the science, is a load of baloney. It is a media driven circus, where the IPCC is not unanimous. The science does not support man made global climate change. The real climate change deniers are the heavily funded charlatan “scientists” who do not acknowledge that the climate has been constantly changing over millions of years and the earth has been far hotter and far cooler than it is today.
  
  Combating the Climate Change Numpties is hard work as they have been brainwashed by the media. You can exchange arguments about statistics and science but they cannot follow the logic. For them it is just repeating the mantra.
  
  They do not understand “The Scientific Method” or any of the founding principles of science, and many so called “Climate Scientists” do not even apply the basic principles of science, the absence of which would have got you a D- in high school. It is simply junk science.
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:31pm
- pb
  
  An impassioned monologue on the contemporary Irish problem – demographic obliteration, and hate speech laws. You can almost hear the rain on the thatch.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWXrmXCanOQ
  
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  November 16, 2019 5:41pm
Happychappy

Chief Justice to Parliament : proposed Terrorism Bill inadequate, unworkable.
In her submission Winkelmann said their should be a standard legislative framework that dealt with court case involving classified National Security information.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12285604
Simon was right when rejecting giving Labour Nationals vote to pass this bill because Andrew Little was not prepared to change his view and again Little has been caught out with poor legislative written law. Looks like a return to Geoffrey Palmers day where we continue to get surprized by poorly written constitution.
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November 16, 2019 8:17am
- Straight arrow
  
  Headline is wrong. While the Chief Justice submission says the bill is inadequate (in protecting human rights), she never says or implies it is unworkable. It will work, just without robust safeguards.
  As regards her concerns, I fully agree that given the proposed extreme (and necessay) powers in this bill, there should be robust judicial safeguards to protect people from political interference in the process.
  
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  November 16, 2019 9:07am
  - Happychappy
    
    S/A are you telling me that the Herald have lied, surely they wouldn’t do that being a reputable name of the NZ Media.
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:24am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
NEW ZEALAND … Where is the long overdue abundant new housing supply ? …

New home shortfall for Wellington region as a city’s-worth of newcomers looms … Matt Tso and Joel Maxwell … Stuff NZ
… VIDEO … Subdivision developer Malcolm Gillies explains …

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117377078/new-home-shortfall-for-wellington-region-as-a-citysworth-of-newcomers-looms

Five-and-a-bit Karoris-worth of people for Wellington City? About a Hutt’s worth of newcomers for the entire region? What could possibly go wrong?

The Wellington region won’t be able to keep up with new housing demand for an expected surging population under current rules, a council-commissioned assessment has revealed.

The year of reckoning is 2027. After that year, according to the assessment, council rules would begin to smother the ability of developers to supply enough new homes, leaving an up-to 21,000-plus shortfall by 2047. … VIEW & READ MORE via hyperlink above …
.
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Housing affordability gains may be over as median price tops $600,000 for first time … Michael Daly … Stuff NZ

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117089009/housing-affordability-gains-may-be-over-as-median-price-tops-600000-for-first-time

… Access latest REINZ Monthly Report …

https://reinz.co.nz/residential-property-data-gallery

What new housing supply lessons are being learnt from Greater Christchurch and Canterbury ?

Check the latest Statistics NZ Monthly Building Consents Report … and from this calculate and extrapolate the (standard industry measure) ‘consents rate per 1000 population per annum’ for Waimakariri and Selwyn Counties and the Canterbury Region … and compare these to your metro and region.
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November 16, 2019 8:20am
- Nickc2
  
  A university of Hardknoks peer reviewed analysis quite clearly shows that for every one person taking up residence in Wellington, four depart for better climates and standards of living. This clearly demonstrates that Wellington will have a housing surplus in about six months.
  Stuff (daily rag) are cherry picking statistics again. Is anyone surprised?
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:38am
- Cobolt24
  
  I met Malcolm Gillies back in 2016, for some unrelated matter, he was starting to renovate the former Central Institute of Technology which appeared to have been left idle for some years.
  
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  November 17, 2019 12:20am
G152

The Aussies still haven’t clocked that all those trees surrounding houses, towns and roads are bringing the fire to their front doors.
Every news item shows the reporter, the fire, the destroyed buildings and the surrounding trees.
Heres a hint
clear away the trees to maybe 100 meters and mow the grass
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November 16, 2019 8:26am
- slightlyrighty
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/fined-for-illegal-clearing-family-now-feel-vindicated-20090212-85bd.html
  
  Remember this?
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:04am
  - Joely Doe
    
    Beat me to it…
    Greenie councils prohibit clearing trees and undergrowth.
    Then people die.
    Vote for Morons and this is what you get.
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:41am
  - Faroffsound
    
    I did remember that but couldn’t recall when or where it was in Australia. Seemed sensible at the time – who wants large, dry, easily combustible trees up close to their house?
    
    Saw on Sky News a couple of nights ago that up to 85% of fires are deliberately lit so the Aussies really do have a problem at the moment.
    
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    November 16, 2019 4:59pm
- srylands
  
  I think they are aware. Most States have hazard reduction programmes in particularly dangerous areas. However, there are limitations. Australia is a very big place. And there are a lot of gum trees which are highly flammable. So there are just not the resources to clear every hazard from every home. Your average homeowner does not have the resources to remove hazards from anything other than the immediate area surrounding their house, and often that will not be enough. Of course it helps.
  
  The other reality is that fires in Australia burn with an intensity never seen in New Zealand. A combination of the high temperature and the flammable eucalyptus oil and vapour. That means that fires and embers can travel for hundreds of metres across cleared land. If you have a spare 15 minutes, watch this video of the Canberra firestorm in 2003. It is pretty amazing. Hundreds of houses were destroyed that were a few hundred metres from the edge of the forest that was burning. These houses had trees in their front yard that were in most cases left intact while the houses were destroyed. The houses were destroyed by waves of embers rolling across the ground. If you click on the 22:00 mark in the video you will see an example.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFEiwNMrZ8
  
  So, yes more could be done but it runs into some daunting limits.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:17am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Srylands, not bad. But whats mssing is the climate change factor that has witnessed severe prolonged draughtts and scorching temperatures etc,
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:54am
    - srylands
      
      You are evidence free as usual. Here is a list of very severe droughts before climate change was an issue. The only drought since 1982 that matches any of these for severity is the millennium drought which ended in 2010.
      
      So yes climate change will increase temperatures in Eastern Australia, but droughts have been a feature of Australia forever.
      
      1864 – 66 (and l868).
      The little data available indicate that this drought period was rather severe in Victoria, South Australia, New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia.
      
      1880 – 86
      Victoria (northern areas and Gippsland); New South Wales (mainly northern wheat belt, northern tablelands and south coast); Queensland (1881-86, in south-east with breaks – otherwise mainly in coastal areas, the central highlands and central interior in 1883-86); and South Australia (1884-86, mainly in agricultural areas).
      
      1888
      Victoria (northern areas and Gippsland); Tasmania (1887-89 in the south); New South Wales; Queensland (1888-89); South Australia and Western Australia (central agricultural areas).
      
      1895 – 1903
      Practically the whole of Australia was affected but most persistently the coast of Queensland, inland areas of New South Wales, South Australia, and central Australia. This was probably Australia’s worst drought to date in terms of severity and area. Sheep numbers, which had reached more than 100 million, were reduced by approximately half and cattle numbers by more than 40 per cent. Average wheat yields exceeded 8 bushels per acre in only one year of the nine, and dropped to 2.4 bushels per acre in 1902.
      
      1911 – 16
      Victoria (1913-15 in north and west); Tasmania (1913-15); New South Wales, particularly inland areas; Queensland; Northern Territory (mainly in the Tennant Creek-Alexandria Downs area); South Australia (some breaks in agricultural areas); and Western Australia (1910-14).
      
      1918 – 20
      Queensland, New South Wales, South Australia, Northern Territory (Darwin-Daly Waters area and central Australia), Western Australia (Fortescue area), Victoria, and Tasmania.
      
      1939 – 45
      New South Wales (severe on the coast), South Australia (persistent in pastoral areas), Queensland and Tasmania; also (more particularly in 1940 and 1944-45) in Western Australia, Victoria, and central Australia; Tennant Creek-Alexandria Downs area in 1943-45.
      
      1958 – 68
      This drought was most widespread and probably second to the 1895-1903 drought in severity. For more than a decade from 1957, drought was consistently prominent and frequently made news head-lines from 1964 onwards. This was treated as one major drought period, but could be subdivided into two which overlapped, both in time and space. Central Australia and vast areas of adjacent Queensland, South Australia, Western Australia.
      
      1982 – 83
      This extensive drought affected nearly all of eastern Australia, and was particularly severe in south eastern Australia. Lowest ever 11 month rainfall occurred over most of Victoria and much of inland New South Wales.
      
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      November 16, 2019 11:42am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Climate change has had fuck all to do with this, but is a convenient excuse. Now fuck off, pervert.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:01pm
    - kevn
      
      @septicboy…. Get your Aussie history book out, go back thousands of years.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:28pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      @stephieboy
      
      The Climate has been changing for millions of years. It has been hotter and cooler than it is right now. Or did you not go to school? Or did you cheat in your Geography exams?
      
      Temperatures are controlled by the sun, and recorded temperatures or recorded writings by mankind describing the extreme temperature effects show that the Climate is always changing.
      
      Or did you cheat in those exams as well?. Or are just too lazy to do any real research, instead just parroting main stream media?
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:40pm
      - stephieboy
        
        JackRabbit , yes it has been changing for millions of years .But this time there are 7 billion humans to add to the mix!
        
        Like here,
        
        https://www.edf.org/climate/9-ways-we-know-humans-triggered-climate-change
        
        DUH!
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:30pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @stephieboy
        
        https://www.edf.org/climate/9-ways-we-know-humans-triggered-climate-change
        
        This is an example of junk science. This is someone’s wet dream about their own expertise. And it starts with the arrogant statement “9 ways we know humans triggered climate change” . This is a presumption that the science is settled. It is not.
        
        Each one of those 9 points are false, either in full, or in omission of data.
        
        Investigative science starts with principles, application of the “Scientific Method”, baselines, removing variables and dealing with raw unaltered data.
        
        It also starts with the concept of right and wrong and the idea that there has always been a battle on planet earth between good and bad, truth and lies, good and evil.
        
        Most people, like yourself, can be shown truth time and time again, but refuse to believe it because you have an un-inspected idea or belief that Climate change scientists would not be making shit up. The world is very different to what you believe. Open your eyes for the first time. Learn from history.
        
        If you can answer the question I posed as to why Mt Kilimanjaro glacier is only 11,500 years old, and that matches with the actual science that scientists know about then you might gain some credibility.
        
        Until then, you are just parroting the popular “end is nigh” theme.
        
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        November 16, 2019 6:02pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      @stephieboy
      
      Do yourself a favour.
      Some Glaciers are retreating, but not all. We know that.
      
      Answer this multi-choice question:
      The glacier ice on Mt Kilimanjaro has been carbon dated to be no older than 11,500 years old.
      How is this possible?
      
      a) Aliens landed here 11,500 years ago and had a barbecue on Mt Kilimanjaro, melting the glaciers that then rebuilt after they departed.
      
      OR:
      b) In the future, scientists invent time travel and go back in time and burn coal on Mt Kilimanjaro melting all the glaciers.
      
      OR:
      c) The earth is continually heating and cooling, as has been determined through research and ice / rock samples and the lack of glacier on Mt Kilimanjaro was due to the heating at the end of the Pleistocene period and the start of the Holocene period.
      
      For full marks, please show your working out and references.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:48pm
- Komata
  
  G152@0820
  
  The ‘problem’ is that the gweens INSIST that everything remains ‘untouched’ and that gaia MUST be placated by not cutting-down a tree or clearing the underbrush.
  
  Noticeably such people are conspicuous in their absence when homes and buildings are consumed by the flames that race through said uncleared underbrush. They certainly never, ever, rush in to assist with repairing the results of their foolish decrees.
  
  ‘Global Warming’ is the current excuse for doing nothing and being politically incompetent, and at the moment a farmer in Q Land is being prosecuted for both clearing his land AND surviving the fires as a result. HOW DARE HE!! (especially when his neighbours lost everything because they ‘complied’ with State dictums…
  
  The gweens, of course, deny any responsibility…
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:35am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  If trees bring fire, then keep them a suitable distance from houses, roads and other essential infrastructure.
  
  Common sense.
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:03am
  - IC5000
    
    Cities would then become heat sinks. Not pleasant places to live.
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:06pm
  - MCos
    
    or vice versa
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:28pm
    - IC5000
      
      Lol that’s like saying more crime would be an improvement
      
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      November 16, 2019 6:07pm
- Nickc2
  
  Aussies are well aware of the dangers of fire when living among trees and would love to keep their properties free of fire fuel but Green Councils and Labor State Governments are preventing this
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:41am
peterwn

See:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117243557/close-bond-between-mother-and-daughter-helps-catch-online-predator
“……. pleading guilty to two charges of grooming, possession of objectionable material, blackmail and performing an indecent act on a 14-year-old girl. He will be sentenced in February.
In 2013, when he was just 16, he was sentenced to four years in jail for a violent sexual assault, his first offence.”
This first offence was a ‘strike’ crime but he could not be given a ‘strike’ because he was under 18.
16 year olds are not normally sent to prison for 4 years so it must have been a really nasty assault. If he had a ‘strike’ then it may have deterred the current offending.
Presumably David Garrett and co had to concede the minimum age requirement to get the ‘three strikes’ legislation through.
If youth offending is so serious as to warrant 4 years prison, then a ‘strike’ should go with it regardless of age.
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November 16, 2019 8:31am
- sooty
  
  [Mod – deleted. Don’t make unfounded allegations]
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:28am
Yvette

In the Guardian, Ken Thompson, a former deputy commissioner of NSW Fire and Rescue, touches on one cause –
For obvious reasons, you can only do prescribed burnings when temperatures are low, humidity is high and winds aren’t too strong. But since it’s hot, dry and windy for more and more months of the year, leading to elevated fire danger, the window for safe burning is shrinking dramatically.
But he ends up –
Let us stop this crisis from getting worse, by keeping coal, oil and gas in the ground.

Meanwhile, my neighbour is Australian.
He and his sister, thirty years ago, purchased a beach front section.
To begin with they were expected each year – under appropriate controls – to burn extra vegetation off, or if they left it, they had to pay the council a fee for them to do it.
Then after a period that was replaced with cutting the extra vegetation and transporting it to rubbish dumps, which became hazards in themselves.
Then they were not allowed cut down any vegetation and that apparently is the situation now.
Sitting there – dying or drying, or both – waiting to go up in flames.

Linking the bushfire disaster in NSW to climate change is “an absolute nonsense” and reducing fuel loads in the Australian bush is urgently needed, a leading scientist says.
“Bushfire expert David Packham tried to tell 7.30 [Australian television program, ABC] we had to burn our bush every 10 years to cut the leaf litter that turns our fires into infernos, a level of burning NSW doesn’t come close to reaching.

It seems a similar thing happens in California.
Is Shane allowing for fire breaks?
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November 16, 2019 8:40am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Still more neph’s on the couch than fire breaks I would think
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:05am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yvette, your wrong,
  
  ‘Old hat’: Is there a link between climate change and bushfires?
  
  What is the connection between climate change and bushfires?
  
  Does climate change play a part?
  
  “..Yes, there is a link between climate change and the prevalence and severity of fires. In fact, the research identifying a link between fires and climate change is “old hat”, says Professor Bradstock. “The research has all been done. We don’t need to keep doing it.”
  As the Bureau of Meteorology and CSIRO pointed out in last year’s latest State of the Climate report, the number of the most extreme 10 per cent of fire weather days based on the fire danger index “has increased in recent decades across many regions of Australia, especially in southern and eastern Australia
  
  There has been an associated increase in the length of the fire weather season,” it said. “Climate change, including increasing temperatures, is contributing to these changes…”
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/old-hat-is-there-a-link-between-climate-change-and-bushfires-20191111-p539d2.html
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:01am
  - Random T Person
    
    ‘your’
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:44pm
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    The fire down here near Dunedin was nothing to do with climate change , it was doc land wedged between pristine farms and out water supply , problem with DOC lands they refuse to stock the land , this fire was because the land was not maintained , and this gets right up my nose , I work in the wool industry , that land should have sheep on it , the grass was half a metre high , and that was the fuel , the surrounding farms were fine because they are well maintained and the stock keep the grass down , its the same in Aussie , they refuse to let home owners clear bush trees and shrubbery away from their houses , and they wont let them put in fire breaks , it beggars belief they refuse to do what would stop these fires from becoming so large
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:54pm
mikenmildagain

Happy International Day for Tolerance!
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November 16, 2019 8:40am
- Komata
  
  MM@0840
  
  Re: Happy International Day for Tolerance
  
  ‘By their actions shall ye know them…’
  
  Just saying.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:38am
Swifty

Get some Fanny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imZUqkPlUaQ
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November 16, 2019 8:40am
- Maggie Pie
  
  WOW!! Thanks for sharing Swifty.
  Can’t wait to show it to my partner when he gets home – he’s got a real foot fetish 😛
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:02am
  - Swifty
    
    Heh.
    
    What’s really spooky is that the singer/slide guitarist is a 99% dead ringer for my kids Mum. Struggle to think of two people I’ve ever seen look not just similar but the goddam same!
    
    The kids can’t believe its not her.
    
    Spooky.
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:57am
burt

So what was the sentencing of the protected predator at the Labour youth camp, wasn’t sentencing happening in early November?

I’m picking the guy got permanent name suppression to protect the reason why the Labour party protected him.
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November 16, 2019 8:50am
- Inandout
  
  burt, his identity is no longer a secret.
  
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  November 16, 2019 9:04am
  - burt
    
    Can you enlighten those of us who still don’t know why Labour tried so hard to keep the victims from telling their parents or the police?
    
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    November 16, 2019 9:52am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    So who is he? I don’t know.
    
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    November 16, 2019 9:53am
    - sooty
      
      Rumoured to be a…
      
      [Mod – rumours aren’t always true. Please don’t expose DPF to legal risk]
      
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      November 16, 2019 10:34am
  - Sofia
    
    Check
    The accused’s lawyer Emma Priest called it “drunken antics at a party” and said she would be seeking a discharge without conviction and permanent name suppression for her client.
    • An interim order suppressing his name will continue until final disposition of the case in November.
    Maria Austen, a Wellington lawyer, conducted an external review of Labour Party procedures after the allegations were made.
    Austen’s report included several recommendations, however, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said the report will not be publicly released while the court proceedings were ongoing.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264699
    
    Is this not the current situation?
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:03am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The wheels of justice can grind ever so slowly.
  
  Now move on little lad!
  
  http://www.picturequotes.com/wheels-of-justice-grind-slow-but-grind-fine-quote-457261
  
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  November 16, 2019 9:18am
  - burt
    
    Move on… spoken like a true Labour party person in a coverup.
    
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    November 16, 2019 9:55am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Be good to see some ‘justice’ from the Moderators for this sleazy comment
    ‘stephieboy
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    
    Maggie Pie, share with us about your “…thrilled but exhausted” experiences?
    Thumb up 0 Thumb down 36REPLY REPORTNOVEMBER 15, 2019 9:44AM’
    
    This creep clearly has a problem with women.
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:06am
    - sooty
      
      Well he doesn’t lurk around St Lukes foodcourt for no good reason!
      I wonder if the security gaurds have been alerted and have a picture?
      
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      November 16, 2019 10:37am
    - John Warren
      
      Ah yes, the mods yesterday blocked a comment by me in which I suggested Stephie visit his vet for some gaseous help with his insomnia (too far, I know), but then stuff like that from him goes unchallenged.
      
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      November 16, 2019 10:41am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      All on Red, nonsense. A remark that in the context was appropriate!
      
      Now move lttlle lad!
      
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      November 16, 2019 11:16am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Nah
        You’re a creep who stalks women
        
        13 1
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        November 16, 2019 1:07pm
    - Swifty
      
      Sick, sick, sick.
      
      9 0
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      November 16, 2019 12:15pm
    - Michael
      
      I reported it to the mods and called out DPF yesterday.
      
      I’m starting to think think DPF is aiding and abetting Stephie’s sexual innuendo stalking of Maggie, by his deliberate inaction for some reason.
      
      He DPF, has no excuse, as he has access to ALL of Stephie and our posts in the last couple of years.
      
      I don’t expect the Mods to deal to it now.
      It has gone on for too long.
      
      If Maggie ever brought an action against DPF, I would support it in court as a witness.
      He after all has all the power, as he informs us from time to time.
      
      Stephie’s behaviour is NOT acceptable and has gone on for far too long.
      
      [Mod – we’ve been through this. The Mods watch stephies behaviour. If people want a higher standard then I’m sure we can start deleting more of stephies posts as well as eliminating the St Luke’s mall and goat references that get thrown around with abandon. Also, don’t claim DPF is aiding and abetting anything like that, you’ll find yourself banned.]
      
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      November 16, 2019 2:17pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Please do not link the abuse I have received from stephieboy with the abuse he gets on this blog.
        
        I don’t indulge in abuse against private individuals.
        
        9 1
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        November 16, 2019 5:51pm
      - Michael
        
        20:30
        Banned?
        You fool.
        
        Who controls access to this blog?
        Who decides who may blog here?
        YOU secret mod?
        No, It is DPF.
        
        I have watched you, (secret mod) do nothing as Stephie has individually (sexual innuendo) attacked this woman (Maggie) repeatedly.
        A woman I have never met.
        Stephie a man (assuming) I have never met.
        Both of whom I have no relationship with at all.
        
        But you do not have final say do you?
        If Maggie wants to take this up anywhere in the future, I shall be a witness for her.
        As is your post above.
        
        (so please identify your self to Maggie please).
        
        A witness to what he has done and what you have not.
        That includes DPF, because he owns this platform and has not banned Stephie for his sexual innuendo attacks against a woman.
        When it has been repeatedly pointed out by the attacked woman and others.
        
        You are the monkey.
        He is the organ grinder as his setting terms for people to blog freely or with a wait period so you unnamed mods can screen it and allow or not.
        
        Verbal violence and sexual attacks like those Stephie does to Maggie are unacceptable in NZ.
        What you don’t understand about that?
        
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        November 16, 2019 8:34pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Hey Mods, In case you missed it, the St Luke’s reference is from stephie’s own mouth:
        
        Jack 5, recently i was at St Luke’s shopping mall and I saw a Muslim lady dressed in traditional apparel accompanied by her two beautiful young daughters dressed in modern western tight jeans and blouses , revealing lovely supple body proportions , including small but ample breasts
        
        Emphasis mine. I agree with Michael. No one deserves a free pass on the sleazy, sexualised trolling we see here.
        
        [Mod: Stephie has been issued a strike today and is on the verge of a ban.]
        
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        November 17, 2019 12:40pm
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    Move on yourself you despicable fool , this was a disgusting sexual attack by a high ranking Labour scums son , anyone that thinks its time to move on is sick in the head , the silence on the digital rape in Cindy’s office is sickening as well , its time for the people to speak up again , the silence and the cover up is what got them angry as it was , piss off to the vile Standard if you want to prattle that shit . end of rant
    
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    November 16, 2019 1:00pm
    - Michael
      
      I do wonder where are the feminists metoo journos , Alison Mau and Andrea Vance?
      
      Months and months and nothing.
      
      I’m starting to think they avoided it and then it became big because of that lass at the spinoff, so they wrote on it and now it’s died down so they can keep their heads down.
      
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      November 16, 2019 2:20pm
- kevn
  
  @burt… The pile of sh*t ‘under-the-carpet’ is getting real big.
  
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  November 16, 2019 9:19am
artemisia

From the Wellington hearings of the loopy rules review a few years back I recall one older person living in a large home, keen to divide it into two dwellings. $12,000 later no real progress and no conclusion in sight to the consent process. Gave up.

Another submitter wanted to demolish an old house and rebuild. Spent a good deal more than the previous person, no end in sight.

(I also made a submission, among other things relating to a garden shed moved on to the property via crane truck over the back fence. Turned out slightly bigger than allowed, Wellington CC issued a notice to fix. We took a chainsaw to the end, removed less than half a metre of side wall and put the end wall back. Loopy? Yep. On a side note, sold this rental, turfed out 5 good tenants, replaced by a couple. There is a lot of it about.)
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November 16, 2019 8:54am
rightoverlabour

For some reason sexual assault seems to be very lightly sentenced here in New Zealand. Look at this case, He is a repeat offender, only hot lead will eventually stop him. At the current rate he’ll be a Labour Party Senior Advisor….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117243557/close-bond-between-mother-and-daughter-helps-catch-online-predator
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November 16, 2019 8:55am
- Michael
  
  Ali Mau had a article last week, about a woman called Dennett in the SST.
  Her ex sent a nude picture of her to the lawyers dealing with their case.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/117282610/alison-mau-the-cycle-of-silencing-victims-is-beyond-frustrating
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117231378/judge-incredulous-as-police-fail-to-lay-more-serious-charges-against-exhusband-who-sent-intimate-photo-to-lawyers
  
  NZPolice and Crown Prosecutor let him off with bugger all, when it was a slam dunk “Digital Harm Act”
  
  Methinks NZ Police is a problem for women.
  Perhaps it’s true about their toxic work culture with Bullying and sexual stuff?
  
  Defence also appear to have the same issue.
  
  That’s why I just can’t understand DPF continuing to allow Stephie’s abuse towards Maggie?????
  
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  November 16, 2019 2:28pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Michael , there was no abuse and none intended !
    
    I think the moderators agree!
    
    [Mod – that’s where you’re wrong stephieboy. Your comments receive far more Mod scrutiny than any other poster here because, despite repeated warnings, you just can’t help yourself]
    
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    November 16, 2019 2:46pm
    - Michael
      
      20:37
      Maggie clearly doesn’t Stephie.
      
      She has complained to DPF and the mods repeatedly about your foul comments and innuendo to her.
      
      I will be a witness to that.
      So apologise and stop forthwith.
      
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      November 16, 2019 8:39pm
JibberJabber

Oh my,

“Do you have any information regarding any criminal activity that the president of the United States has been involved with at all?”

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1195419265567997954
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November 16, 2019 9:00am
- JibberJabber
  
  https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=aY9NF_1573841557
  
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  November 16, 2019 9:32am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Rep. Stefanik Makes Schiff Squirm
    
    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9PeM8_1573849238
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:18am
    - virtualmark
      
      Really? Is that what Hannity is telling you?
      
      The Committee’s rules – *that the GOP voted for* – only allow Nunes or the GOP’s counsel to speak at that point in the proceedings. So Stefanik was simply grandstanding, and Schiff was absolutely correct to deny her speaking rights. Her only speaking slot is the 5 minute slot that all members get.
      
      Stefanik went to Harvard. She’s smart enough to know the rules. She’s also smart enough to know that nearly all the GOP supporters are too dumb to know the rules and would fall for this act. QED. (which stands for “quod erat demonstrandum”, which is Latin, like “quid pro quo” is too).
      
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      November 16, 2019 7:14pm
      - virtualmark
        
        “Only the chair and ranking minority member, or a Permanent Select Committee employee if yielded to by the chair or ranking minority member, may question witnesses during such periods of questioning.”
        
        So the only people who could ask questions were Schiff, Nunes, or a lawyer delegated by Schiff or Nunes.
        
        Elise Stefanik is having a snowflake moment, and you’re all falling for it.
        
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        November 17, 2019 7:30am
Paw Prick

I haven’t seen a post about the train wreck impeachment hearings from David “worse than wartergate” farrar…..funny that
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November 16, 2019 9:06am
- stephieboy
  
  Paw Prick. what ” train wreck”?
  
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  November 16, 2019 2:36pm
- virtualmark
  
  The last few days have been Trump’s worst since he became President.
  
  Yovanovitch’s testimony was damning. Holmes pre-testimony deposition is worse. Sondland is due back in front of the Committee next week, his prior testimony was patently perjury, and he’s just seen Roger Stone found guilty on 5 counts of lying to Congress. And Roger’s only hope of leniency is to spill the beans on Donnie (a Presidential pardon ain’t coming because then Roger has to testify with no 5th Amendment immunity).
  
  Meanwhile it’s clear he’s going to lose the Mazar’s case, and the Deutsche Bank one too. The Ukraine story will play out in Committee for the rest of this year and then in January they’ll have his tax returns.
  
  But hey, you console yourself with “train wrecks”.
  
  Meanwhile the GOP Senators are trying to figure out how they can possibly deal with this when it hits the Senate.
  
  Hint: Watch for 3 or 4 of them to join with the Dems in changing the impeachment vote to be a private, not public, vote (that change just needs a simple majority in the Senate). Then watch at least 30 of the GOP Senators vote to impeach. That’s the latest informed rumour in DC.
  
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  November 16, 2019 6:58pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Oh, and Parnas and Fruman seem prepared to sing like birds to the Feds.
    
    The real Ukraine story is the Trump, Rudi, Parnas, Fruman angle with Navtogaz. Always follow the money …
    
    That’s “Rudi’s drug deal” that Bolton was referring to. Biden was just a sideline. But the Navtogaz story is waiting its turn to come out later in the impeachment investigation.
    
    I can’t figure what will happen first … Trump throws Rudi under the bus, or Rudi throws Trump under the bus. But then that’ll be a “bus wreck” rather than a “train wreck” eh?
    
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    November 16, 2019 7:02pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Oh, and a prediction … Trump will resign rather than allow his tax returns and loan documents (Deutsche Bank) be made public. Given the lengths he’s gone to to keep them private there has to be damning information in them.
    
    I won’t be at all surprised if he does a deal to go in return for a pardon and the tax returns and loan docs stay out of the public record.
    
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    November 16, 2019 7:17pm
  - Billy Collins
    
    “Yovanovitch’s testimony was damning.”
    
    Really? She was directly asked if she had any information of criminal behaviour by Trump and she answered “No”.
    
    “Holmes pre-testimony deposition is worse.”
    
    He just recently remembered that he heard months ago who he believed was Trump (he got no confirmation of this) say “investigation” through the other end of someone else’s phone call. That’s it. That’s their “bombshell” testimony. The fact that they are using that as the basis to subpoena more people is just embarrassing. The fact that this started because a guy heard office gossip that Trump threatened to withhold aid in a phone, yet we find that the call had no mention of aid at all, yet they went ahead anyway.
    
    That’s a trainwreck, mate. Dems are showing they have no dignity.
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:45pm
    - virtualmark
      
      This is not a criminal trial.
      
      The witnesses are clearly establishing Bribery, and Abuse of Power. Both are in the bullseye for impeachment charges. Bribery especially – go read the Constitution.
      
      Keep grasping at straws if it makes you feel better.
      
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      November 17, 2019 7:33am
rightoverlabour

I don’t understand why the police are stopping this. What they need to do is encircle them and then give them 15 minutes to sort themselves out. Hopefully most of the worst thugs will get so injured they’ll be out of action for a long time. Darwin may even intervene and remove a few from the gene pool. Arresting them and letting them go just means they will come back for another bash. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12285726

And then people wonder why teachers have had enough? We deal with these feral scum everyday. And with none of the powers the police have to protect our selves.
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November 16, 2019 9:14am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You can take he man out of South Africa, but you can’t take South Africa out of the man.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:40am
  - stephieboy
    
    Could you exapnd on that ?
    
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    November 16, 2019 11:12am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      That’s not a euphemism for sex, pervert.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:07pm
    - Martin Williams
      
      “he” should read “the”.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:57pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    And that’s why Saffas won the world cup…..
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:06pm
    - Martin Williams
      
      Really? I thought is was poor PED enforcement policy.
      
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      November 16, 2019 1:55pm
Happychappy

More bad press for Winston Peters and will Jacinda have to back this project when many people don’t believe it can be done successfully including Duncan Garner from the AM Show.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/117467307/did-kiwibuild-not-teach-this-lot-anything
They couldn’t get Kiwibuild off the ground when promising year before becoming the Government that this was number one in their objective and now three years later from that disaster they want 100 Billion to shift the port of Auckland to Northport. Would trust this Government with any thing when looking at the dismal record they have created. All for Winston’s Legacy.
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November 16, 2019 9:26am
- Ruahine
  
  I watched the Q&A interview on TV One with Wayne Brown and the resident performer. It appears that the move to Marsden has been fully costed and will be in the region of $10 billion dollars. This will of course be no cost to the working taxpayers because it is all going to be funded by the sale of the 78 hectares of POAL land. This I understand the same land that is going to be underwater soon according to experts. I do not recall that that bit was mentioned though.
  
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  November 16, 2019 1:43pm
  - Happychappy
    
    It looks like Wayne Brown, Shane Jones and Winston Peter’s want the Port of Auckland without paying Compensation for Northport emphasizing that Aucklandl ratepayers will gain valuable land out of it for the City. But obviously never counted on Phil Goffs reaction to the threat of passing a law through Parliament to make it happen.
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/15/908619/we-bloody-own-the-land-goff-questions-port-report
    Winston and Shane trying to manipulate NZ to what they want is a disgrace and needs NZer’s to fight back against what a lot of people are calling corruption.
    
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    November 16, 2019 3:26pm
curry4me

Jack Ma thinks US-China trade tensions could last a while.
https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/alibaba-jack-ma-us-china/2019/11/14/id/941708/?oRef=vuukle
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November 16, 2019 9:27am
- GazzaW
  
  Current trade talks have eased the situation enough with China to push the Dow through the 28,000 barrier overnight.
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:12am
  - curry4me
    
    That’s good news. It could still be a while before there’s a full trade deal though. Meanwhile, as far as I’m concerned, anything that’s made in China stays on the shelf.
    https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2019/11/13/report-trade-talks-stall-as-china-renegs-on-farm-purchase-promises/
    
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    November 16, 2019 2:58pm
oldpark

Are you referring to the well known bird . Alias Woody Would Pecker. Yes that well known bird was very familiar in the Woods at any given time . Tatatatatata. Hmmmmmm.Just saying.
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November 16, 2019 9:35am
atomic drop

Another “Domestic Violence” opinion piece in the NZ Herald this morning.

Had me laughing so much.

Writer is a pudgy pale obese blob ( gender not verifiable) who witnessed a DV incident in a car park.

A stock photo is used. You know the one – a (WHITE) male in the foreground from waist down, legs astride, clenched fists at his sides. Between his legs in the background cast in relief by the back light is the figure of a cowering defenseless female. Gasp!

So the incident took place in Manurewa Auckland, LOL and from the pasty pale blob’s description of what unfolded, it is obvious this was just the usual garden variety South Auckland domestic relationship playing out in public.

Cue outraged white female talking heads delivering 7th Form Girls Debating Team level sermons about how “WE have to DO SOMETHING about protecting OUR women.”

In reality strip out the brown stats and NZ looks just fine.
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November 16, 2019 9:41am
- John Warren
  
  Very much so. Look at the kids still dying despite Sue Bradford’s best efforts. Nearly always brown. Police Ten Seven’s weekly wanted list is always distinctly lacking in pale skin. I notice the offender descriptions no longer include “Maori or Polynesian”, but I don’t know whether that’s because it is “racist” to do so, or because it goes without saying.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:48am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Where is the diversity in the Police Ten Seven’s weekly wanted list?
    
    I demand equal outcomes for women and men of non-color!!!
    
    //
    
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    November 16, 2019 11:05am
  - Paulus
    
    Why do the people wanted in Police 10 7 have their photos already available for the show ?
    
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    November 16, 2019 1:25pm
- Komata
  
  AD@0941
  
  Clearly the unnamed writer of said article has never experienced the absolute violence that a PI woman can inflict on any male (or person, irrespective of age) with whom she has a ‘disagreement’; this DV (because that’s exactly what it is, no matter how it is sugar coated) is a normal way of life in such cultures and can be triggered by the slightest event.
  
  When such women routinely use pieces of 4×2 to physically abuse anyone irrespective of age or gender, to suggest that ‘We must do something for our women’ is, at best fallacious, and at worst, woefully ignorant and possibly showing a level of ‘bubble’ knowledge, while the excuse used to avoid the issue of such DV is that it’s ‘Cultural’ and so should be left alone, in the same way that muslim DV is to be left alone.
  
  Certainly MALE -perpetrated DV is alive and well and also living within the PI community, but to be really effective, IMHO the matter of FEMALE DV in the same societies must also be addressed.
  
  Dollar-to-a donut, it never will be and the MeTOO movement will also chose to ignore the issue, cos ‘bashing’ white males is so much easier, and girls / women would NEVER do such a terrible thing…
  
  Such people might find a visit to some homes in South Auckland quite instructive, perhaps even ‘educational’…
  
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  November 16, 2019 2:29pm
  - Jules99
    
    I seem to recall that the Dunedin study found female domestic violence to be an issue.
    
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    November 16, 2019 4:25pm
potato

What kind of banana republic are we living in when a political party sets up a billion dollar slush fund then attempts to tap into it ?
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November 16, 2019 9:41am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  New Venezuland, with a small continent to one side . . .
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:19am
- John Warren
  
  Winston and Shane. That’s the answer, alpha and omega of it.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:50am
- Nickc2
  
  These people obviously thought they had a right to do so. Were they law graduates by any chance? Obviously Henry is and Winston is a definate maybe, but what about the rest?
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:32pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are they thinking ahead too for more business opportunities in the far North?
  Is the proposed shift of the Port of Auckland part of these games? I doubt if it will benefit Auckland as cost must rise from transhipping.
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:45pm
Fletch

Watch Devin Nunes questioning Marie Yovanovitch about why she is even testifying – why she is a witness. She knows nothing about the Ukraine phone call or the events around it. Also note Schiff being a complete a-hole near the end. He is running the hearing like a dictator…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH4EqDDiGW8
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November 16, 2019 9:43am
- SGA
  
  Yeah, I watched a little of it too. From what I can tell, her testimony is meant provide background that her removal would have facilitated the sort of deals that Trump allegedly wanted made.
  
  More important, I’d like to think that even some of the Republican members were quietly appalled that Trump was tweeting about the witness while she was giving her testimony. That, to me, is just bizarre.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:01am
  - John Warren
    
    I know, bad look. But “Everywhere Marie Yovanovitch went turned bad.”? Is that really a “furious” and “intimidating” “attack”?
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:52am
    - SGA
      
      Apparently she’s responsible for Somalia too, don’t forget. A quick look at her Wikipedia page suggests she was there about 25 years ago (so probably in a relatively junior diplomatic role) – but I’m sure she is actually responsible. Shame Bush hadn’t noticed when he made her ambassador to a couple of places later.
      
      “Furious” as in angry or full of energy? “Intimidating” – possibly – the Presidency is a very powerful and influential position.
      
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      November 16, 2019 11:11am
      - All_on_Red
        
        His tweets go too far sometimes but his base loves him fighting back.
        Besides it’s not like President Trump left Ambassador Yovanovitch to die in Benghazi and then blamed it on a YouTube video.
        //
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:06pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red , like your guru you’ve masterd the art of deflection and irrelevancy!
        
        Pathetic!
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:26pm
      - SGA
        
        Besides it’s not like President Trump left Ambassador Yovanovitch to die
        
        So, provided she didn’t die, all else is ok? Ok, that’s a way of looking at things, I suppose.
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:27pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You guys know what // means, right?
        
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        November 16, 2019 3:52pm
  - Fletch
    
    Well, the thing is, they are saying Trump was intimidating a witness. How? He wasn’t there. Are the members all looking at their phones instead of paying attention to the hearing? Oh yeh, Schiff read out the tweet – that’s why. If the witness felt intimidated it’s because Schiff read it out during the hearing. Trump always tweets about what he is feeling as it is happening – whether he is watching the news etc.
    
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    November 16, 2019 11:05am
    - SGA
      
      @Fletch
      That’s a little naive, isn’t it? All of those people have aides, etc. It would have been extraordinary if the hearing had concluded without that tweet becoming common knowledge (even to the witness). It’s a bizarre and unnecessary thing for Trump to do (especially when part of what they were talking about was a smear campaign). “Trump always tweets about what he is feeling as it is happening” isn’t a good thing. It shows poor self control and impulsiveness.
      
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      November 16, 2019 11:58am
      - Michael
        
        Yep poor timing, he should have thought about the unforseen consequences.
        To release it as she left the room would have been fine.
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:33pm
      - SGA
        
        Or to get his press room to draft a more careful response. That’s what he pays them for.
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:57pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      If the president so desperately wants his opinion on the matter to be heard, he could head over to the capitol and testify in person.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:25pm
      - SGA
        
        That would be unlikely to happen 🙂 But it’s not as though he’s defenceless either. He has a well-staffed press team.
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:55pm
    - MCos
      
      I heard she testified for five hours.
      I’m not up to speed with how these things are run, but I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some sort of interlude during that time when she would have found out.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:40pm
    - Kabull
      
      How could she be intimidated – she wouldn’t have seen the tweet while she was testifying. She only knew about it because Schiff read some of it out to her. It can be argued it was wrong for him to do that.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:50pm
      - SGA
        
        She testified for hours with breaks.
        More important, given that part of the issue was a smear job being done on her, I’d suggest Trump’s tweet was rather relevant to proceedings?
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:23pm
  - Nickc2
    
    What suprised me most was that she admitted she had been coached by the Biden and Obama regeme prior to taking up her appointment on how to handle any questions asked about the Binens when in her new appointment. She even admitted whe was given a book containing possible questions which could be asked about the Bidens and how each should be answered.
    I must admit, I didn’t get to watch all of the investigation as I kept falling asleep whenever a Democrat started asking questions or lecturing about alledged POTUS actions.
    If ever I get arrested in the US for any crime whatsoever, Jim Jordan will be my attorney, F the cost.
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:47pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      She admitted in her Testimony that State gave her a special briefing on Burisma and Hunter Biden et al and their corrupt behaviour.
      
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      November 16, 2019 2:08pm
      - stephieboy
        
        And what was precisely the corrupt behaviour?
        
        DUH!
        
        You’ve caught it badly,
        
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38045852
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:21pm
      - SGA
        
        She admitted in her Testimony that State gave her a special briefing on Burisma and Hunter Biden et al and their corrupt behaviour.
        
        I think I was watching that part of her testimony, and that’s not quite what I recall her admitting. Didn’t she say that she was briefed on a large number of issues (a book of them) among which was Hunter Biden’s relationship with Burisma? Or maybe you are referring to another part of her testimony that I missed (I watched bits and pieces over the course of a couple of hours).
        
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        November 16, 2019 3:14pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m not sure what sort of trouble you’re thinking of where you might want ‘Gym’ Jordan to help you out:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jordan_(American_politician)#The_Ohio_State_University_abuse_scandal
      
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      November 16, 2019 3:52pm
Maggie Pie

We had a few friends over for drinks last night. They reckon I’m the only person they know who watches porn and worries about how the actress needs to have a mole checked.
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November 16, 2019 9:51am
- Wangas Feral
  
  We make our own – so can check moles on a regular basis.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:05am
  - G152
    
    The moles in the US Senate need checking
    
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    November 16, 2019 11:25am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You mean Moscow Mitch?
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:25pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I’m worried that you noticed! The Secret Life of Adrian and a Mole was a series where people who share your predilection could go . . .
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:21am
Right of way is Way of Right

Can someone please explain to me why we are continuing to laud the benefits of MMP when it has delivered us a government where a party that got less than 8% of the votes somehow managed to get 20% of the ministerial seats in cabinet, managed to deliver us a deputy prime minister who was deemed unsuitable to represent his electorate THREE TIMES in THREE SEPARATE ELCTORATES, and has managed to give us the buffoon Shane Jones!

FPP was not a perfect system by any means, but it did at least allow the public to vote out unsuitable candidates and not have them slink back in to parliament through the list!
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November 16, 2019 10:00am
- John Warren
  
  MMP gives us the tyranny of the minority, and the biggest party in Parliament sidelined. How democratic is that? I’ve always hated MMP – there are several better alternatives (endlessly discussed) when it comes to proportional representation that don’t involve Winston fucking Peters, Shane Jones and Julie Anne Genter ruling the roost.
  
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  November 16, 2019 10:57am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The old men on KB go all misty-eyed about FPP and the days when 35% of the vote could get 60% of the seats and a minority with 15-20% might get 2 seats.
    
    You didn’t even need to get the most votes to win.
    
    Real democracy.
    
    WP, SJ and JAG are there because enough people voted for them on a public list. End of.
    
    This fixation with electorate votes is a bit strange – look at how ACT didn’t even get as many votes as TOP. 100 votes in one place are somehow more democratic than 100 votes spread around the country. How does that work?
    
    Perhaps we should have (yet another) a referendum on the subject before the FPP dinosaurs all die.
    
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    November 16, 2019 11:11am
    - Right of way is Way of Right
      
      Yet a party who garnered less than 40% of the total vote managed to get hold of the reins of power by giving 20% of the cabinet table to a party that squeaked in less than 8% of the total vote. Please, enlighten me as to how that in any way represents democracy?
      
      Just remind yourself, the Labour Party didn’t get the most votes either, but there they are, stuffing up the country via a coalition agreement that we, the electorate, have never seen, are are apparently not allowed to see, yet somehow that’s fair is it?
      
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      November 16, 2019 11:39am
      - Ian Boag
        
        They got into power by assembling a group that had over 50% of the vote …. National couldn’t or wouldn’t do it.
        
        End of.
        
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        November 16, 2019 12:47pm
      - MCos
        
        In three elections more than 60% of the voters voted against Muldoon when he was PM. He still won two of those elections. In each of them Labour won more votes.
        The last time a single party won more than 50% of the popular votes was National in 1951.
        All this was common knowledge when two referendums were held confirming MMP.
        
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        November 16, 2019 12:59pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Ian Boag
        
        Under the figures above, 92% of people did not want NZ First. A bunch of wrongs do not make a right.
        A bunch of thugs do not make an honest man. Consider this under MMP.
        
        A party gets 49% of the vote.
        9 other parties, all get 5% of the vote, and one gets 6% of the vote. The reason they only get 5% (and 6%) is becasue they are fringe parties.
        Technically they can form government. Yet for each individual voter, 95% did not trust or want these fringe parties.
        
        Practical example.
        
        In an alternate timeline:
        Your daughter is looking to get married and she goes on a TV dating game were marriages are arranged. both you and her rate the potential suitors. Brad Pitt gets a 49% approval score from you both, lower than 100% because of his Hollywood arrogance.
        
        All the others are most undesirable. Some smell, have prior convictions for assault, rape etc.
        
        Most get less then 5% suitability scores from you and your daughter.
        
        The judges conclude however that together, the undesirables get 51% of the vote, and your daughter has to marry them all.
        
        That is MMP.
        
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        November 16, 2019 1:19pm
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        When you see the price paid by Labour to get NZ First alongside, a thrice outvoted MP as deputy PM, Shane Jones on the steps of parliament acting in a manner that is as contemptuous an act as I have seen in many a year, referring to farmers as ‘rednecks’ and explaining his behaviour as simply being a ‘Maori’, while he treats the provincial growth fund as his own personal re-election fund, then perhaps you might start to understand that National made the correct choice in not dealing with Winston.
        
        Add to that that one of the major reasons that Winston (Note, not NZ First, WINSTON) went with Labour is that he got the hump about his superannuation payment making it in to the public domain, an act for which he blamed Paula Bennett and Anne Tolley, which he has subsequently been unable to prove in a court of law.
        
        Our democracy has effectively been highjacked by an angry little man and a temper tantrum. I agree, National wouldn’t make a deal with NZ First, however the Greens also refused to deal with National. But I also think that Labour should not have made a deal with Winston, the price was too damn high.
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:00pm
    - mandk
      
      No one voted for WP, SJ and JAG on a list. Their parties were voted for.
      
      They were all soundly beaten in their electorates.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:12pm
    - Jack5
      
      There are other methods of elections than first past the post and MMP, and doubtless more will emerge, made feasible by the number-crunching facility of computers.
      
      The problem with MMP, which is a close descendant of the proportional system under which Hitler got into the Reichstag, is that it, with its list MPS, it brings into government representatives who don’t personally face the voters.
      
      John Warren is right that MMP gives disproportionate power to small minorities. On the other hand FPP generally shut them out.
      
      As for Ian Boag’s point that under MMP “you don’t need to get the most votes to win”, under the coalition system that MMP has brought with it, the dominant party still does not need to get the most votes to dominate.
      
      As for the Boag ageist quip, Ian Boag himself is no millennial. So he’s no Y’s fellow.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:46pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        I think you mean “under FPP you don’t need to get the most votes to win,”. Muldoon ’78 and ’81.
        
        There are a lot of voters out there who have never known anything other than MMP. Two referenda so far have not revealed any groundswell for a return to FPP. KB dinosaurs excepted of course. Good luck calling for another referendum …..
        
        Any proportional system will put some minor parties into parliament in a ratio that likely relates to their proportion of the vote. It results in some form of coalition government.
        
        Some call it “democracy”.
        
        Ageist? 1945. Vintage early boomer.
        
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        November 16, 2019 4:43pm
      - John Warren
        
        Ian appeared to interpret my dislike of MMP as a desire to return to FPP. He’s entirely wrong. My preference is for a preferential or transferable vote system.
        
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        November 16, 2019 5:08pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    John Warren,
    
    “MMP gives us the tyranny of the minority…, ”
    
    Rubbish!
    
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    November 16, 2019 11:13am
    - John Warren
      
      Very good, Stephanie. In the face of strong evidence to the contrary, would you care to explain how you came to that extraordinary conclusion? Or was it just another of your tiny brain farts?
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:08pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You don’t call the COL a tyranny of the minority?
      Re-education is required.
      
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      November 16, 2019 12:49pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Clearly you have never read this essay by Karl Popper.
      
      I’ve posted it here twice before.
      https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2016/01/31/from-the-archives-the-open-society-and-its-enemies-revisited
      
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      November 16, 2019 5:41pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think Popper makes too much of the role of parties as a weakness of proportional representation. If parties do not respond to the interests of those who vote for them, then they should lose support. I can’t see much difference in the case of an electorate MP – also usually very much a creature of the party.
        
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        November 16, 2019 6:01pm
- IC5000
  
  Because both National and Labour decided to implement policies which were not disclosed in election manifestos and which contributed to NZ experiencing substantial economic suffering.
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:20pm
  - niggly
    
    Still happens under MMP!
    
    Take the oil and gas ban for example (not campaigned on), or NZF’s $3billion regional development funds, or anything in the “secret coalition agreement”!
    
    So in conclusion MMP is much worse – because the MMP system allows for such “wheeling and dealing” in post-election negotiations (negating any pre-election promises)!
    
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    November 16, 2019 3:46pm
Maggie Pie

Finally; we get to hear from Prince Andrew himself – the truth, the hole truth, and nothing but the truth.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1195278514565595136
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November 16, 2019 10:16am
- John Warren
  
  Ah, so this is the one in which he admits his obsession with underaged girls, confesses that Epstein was his pimp, acknowledges that he’s a perverted monster, divulges that he’s made a free and full confession of all his crimes to the authorities, and states his intention to plead guilty to all charges?
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:04am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Are you talking about our Stephieboy?
    
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    November 16, 2019 12:10pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Ummm, the hole truth ;).
  
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  November 16, 2019 4:46pm
Swifty

A reminder of one of NZ’s finest cultural exports:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xCXuPuO3Dk

And Butch Miller recently and now living in Otaki, and talking about his history growing up in NZ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWazv8JG4Q
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November 16, 2019 10:39am
JibberJabber

Tarrant obtained a firearms licence within 5 weeks of arriving in NZ with no friends or family in the country.

Police then signed off on Tarrant ordering 2,320 rounds of ammunition.

https://twitter.com/EricS_NZ/status/1195284388407169024

https://cfnz.blog/2019/11/15/select-committee-shuts-down-livestream-after-submitter-points-out-shooter-could-not-have-been-vetted-properly/
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November 16, 2019 10:41am
- Swifty
  
  So, is this a case of the Police failing in their accountabilities but for which we must now suffer and they get away scot free?
  
  FFS – if he didn’t have NZ-based referees how in hell did he get his license?
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:02am
- krazykiwi
  
  That video on the twitter link is interesting.
  
  And let not forget that prior to her frenzied virtue-signalling about banning weapons, Ardern was the chair of an executive committee which ushered through changes to arms regulations, which have been described as ‘crazy’
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:03am
  - JackRabbit
    
    @krazykiwi
    
    Its part of communist / fascist strategy – one step backwards / two steps forward. Create a negative event, or create the conditions for a negative event and then offer up your heavy handed “solution”.
    
    I don’t own a gun, but respect the rights of those that do. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
    
    Law abiding people do not kill people, criminals who do not respect the law kill people.
    
    Law abiding people have handed in their guns. Criminals who do not respect the law have not.
    
    How does this make for a safer society?
    
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    November 16, 2019 1:41pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      It’s not about safety. Quite the opposite, in fact. If the hoi polloi can be made to feel unsafe they will clamor for more state muscle to ‘protect’ them.
      
      Socialist governments are essentially protection rackets with an electoral mandate.
      
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      November 16, 2019 3:38pm
- potato
  
  I renewed my license and firearms officer said obvious mistakes had been made – I’m not sure why we need a royal commission apart for a elaborate deflection of responsibility, What other areas is our government failing to protect our safety and wellbeing?
  
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  November 16, 2019 11:10am
  - MCos
    
    I don’t think a royal commission is designed to deflect anything. Quite the opposite.
    
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    November 16, 2019 1:02pm
  - sooty
    
    Did he only come here because of Cindy?
    Would Brenton Tarrant have even come to NZ if Cindy and her committee had not changed NZs firearm laws, to enable him to purchase his guns and ammo?
    
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    November 16, 2019 1:53pm
    - Batman
      
      He was here well before the current government or those decisions.
      
      You guys are talking nonsense.
      
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      November 16, 2019 2:09pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Not sure what they are talking about but it’s certainly true Ardern headed the Committee which changed the law on on line purchases which allowed Tarrant to avoid having to visit the Police Station for a couple of his buys.
        Who knows, the cop who would have seen him might have picked up he was suss.
        ?‍♂️
        
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        November 16, 2019 2:15pm
    - GJM
      
      By his own admission, one of his objectives was gun confiscation. I suspect that knowing that it was party policy for the greens, and labour although unstated but clear in the 2017 select committee, the current government may have factored in his decision to commit his crimes here, knowing the outcome. The corrupt and incompetent nz police brass have been pushing for it for a while as well, and arent afraid to lie.
      In Norway, they had a full investigation and ultimately made only minor changes. NZ it was a means to an already decided objective.
      Tarrant must be happy, since he has achieved everything he set out to do, with the confiscation, copycat and revenge attacks such as Shr Lanka and so on. I wouldn’t be surprised if we haven’t seen the end of it yet.
      
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      November 16, 2019 3:51pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  I can understand the Livestream being shut down as this is evidence on a matter that is before the courts, but the information contained does highlight police failings that allowed the gunman to carry out his plan.
  
  It was the change in regulations by the current government that allowed this to take place, and law abiding gun owners are taking the fall for it.
  
  While I wouldn’t say that the police and current government have blood on their hands, they certainly have more culpability than law abiding gun owners.
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:00pm
krazykiwi

Those Swedes. Not wanting to be outdone by the brazen theft of weapons from Palmerston North Police, Six Glock-17 pistols and 300 dumdum bullets have been stolen from the building that houses the offices of Sweden’s prime minister, to the embarrassment of the country’s government. Naturally they tried to cover this up.
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November 16, 2019 10:57am
- mark15
  
  Dumdum bullets indeed.
  ‘Hollow point’ if you dont mind…
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:02pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    No, the dumdums were the ones who couldn’t keep track of pistols locked in a safe.
    
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    November 16, 2019 6:17pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Maybe the thieves are finding that the government departments who hold arms are an easier touch than private owners of weapons…
  
  A private owner will be very careful about having his property stolen, whereas a state employee has no incentive to be careful. Moreover, state departments may be unable/unwilling to prevent certain new citizens from working in sensitive areas.
  
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  November 16, 2019 1:34pm
- GJM
  
  Small time, in NZ you can pick up a Glock in the parliamentary toilets if you need one…
  
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  November 16, 2019 3:55pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The company Trump and his supporters keep,

“Trump ally Roger Stone convicted of lying to Congress”

US President Donald Trump’s adviser Roger Stone has been convicted on seven counts of lying to Congress, obstruction and witness tampering.

The court heard he lied about his efforts to learn more about when WikiLeaks would publish damaging emails about Hillary Clinton in 2016.
The jury returned its verdict on day two of deliberations in Washington DC.
Witness tampering carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. The other counts can carry five years each.
The court heard Stone lied in September 2017 during his testimony to the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee’s inquiry into alleged Russian interference in the US elections a year earlier.

He was asked about WikiLeaks’ release of damaging emails about Mrs Clinton – President Donald Trump’s Democratic rival in the vote.

US intelligence officials and Department of Justice special counsel Robert Mueller later concluded those messages had been stolen by Russian hackers.

Stone is the sixth Trump aide or adviser convicted in a criminal case resulting from Mr Mueller’s since-concluded investigation….”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/403409/trump-ally-roger-stone-convicted-of-lying-to-congress
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November 16, 2019 11:09am
- All_on_Red
  
  Yes, but what’s this got to do with your problem with women?
  LOL
  
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  November 16, 2019 1:46pm
- IC5000
  
  This guy pimped out his wife in the swinger scene and acted as Trump’s political mentor. The people you keep around say a lot about your character.
  
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  November 16, 2019 2:05pm
  - Batman
    
    Doesn’t being in the swinging scene mean that you, by definition, aren’t pimping out your wife?
    
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    November 16, 2019 2:08pm
    - Michael
      
      Not if it is her free decision Batman.
      Or didn’t you do logic at Uni?
      
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      November 16, 2019 2:41pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Another nutcase “Ukraine quid pro quo” conspiracy theory bites the dust. The ludicrously implausible theory ( Crowdstrike) that some how it was Ukraine behind the 2016 Presidential elections interference with DNC server located in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDac0D1-SI

If Trump and his supporters had not played around with these kinds of stupid conspirac theories then the whole impeachment inquiry would most likely never have happened.

Talk about thick but more so recklessly irresponsible!
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November 16, 2019 11:35am
- atomic drop
  
  Globalism is dead in the water. So time to let go of the denial, accept what has happened, grieve and move on.
  
  #MAGA
  
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  November 16, 2019 12:09pm
  - chaos
    
    Perhaps this is what you want
    
    https://twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1195496357559185409
    
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    November 16, 2019 6:09pm
- Billy Collins
  
  The Dems wanted an impeachment enquiry the moment Trump won and would have clung to anything to start it. Remember this all started based on water-cooler gossip, and they still have nothing on Trump. If it wasnt this, the Dems would have clung to something else.
  
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  November 16, 2019 1:08pm
Tony Stuart

On The Country yesterday lunchtime, Shane Jones defended his behaviour at the farmer protest at Parliament on Thursday. He said that real farmers, with whom he has no issue, were back on the farm milking the cows, whilst the ones in Wellington were “milking the bull”.

Given what “milking the bull” would involve, and given Shane Jones’ past indiscretion with his Ministerial credit card, I guess that if anyone is expert in milking bulls, it would be Matua Shane himself!
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November 16, 2019 11:49am
- Rich Prick
  
  Except that the cows don’t need milking at midday. As for milking the bull … well, Shane is the expert. Blowhard tosser.
  
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  November 16, 2019 1:28pm
- G152
  
  Some-one who earned the nickname Tugger is casting aspersions ????
  Really ??????
  
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  November 16, 2019 2:36pm
Jack5

German universities are enmeshed in a more intense battle over free speech than New Zealand’s rustic, remote, restrictive Massey University.

The English-language Spiegel has a fine analysis of the speech turmoil in Germany (link below).

Merkel’s big Muslim guest inflow, Germany’s Far Right political parties, and the history of Nazism make for more intense debate hotter than free-speech issues stemming from the the dreary totalitarianism of Massey University.

As you would expect, the word “Nazi” is being thrown around frequently in Germany, and there’s been a long tradition of this. From the article:

Nazi comparisons, in particular, have long been popular. Nobel Peace Prize-laureate Willy Brandt called conservative politician Heiner Geissler “the worst rabble rouser” since Joseph Goebbels. In 2002, Helmut Kohl complained that then-Bundestag President Wolfgang Thierse was “the worst parliamentary president since Hermann Göring.”

The free speech struggle in Germany:

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-struggles-to-define-limits-of-what-can-be-said-a-1295229-2.html
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November 16, 2019 1:07pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I suspect that the Nazis were a unique product of the German mindset.
  
  A clue. Does an English speaker ever say “We English” or “We Australians”? (As if one, as a member of a hive-mind, can speak on behalf of the population.)
  
  A note of caution: In Japan, the phrase “Ware Ware Nihonjin”) (“We Japanese”) exists. It is part of the Uchi-Soto mindset except it is almost always applied in a “Japanese and everyone else” kind of way.
  I suspect a similar train of thought in German culture (although I don’t know for sure).
  
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  November 16, 2019 4:24pm
curry4me

Liz Warren’s meme team isn’t very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pftFfYMTwVo
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November 16, 2019 2:09pm
Harriet

Tarrant the Aussie killed around 50 muslims —- with a gun.

Labor and the Greens in Aussie drowned about 1000 muslims —- with legislation.

How effective will gun legislation be? 😎
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November 16, 2019 2:46pm
- Jack5
  
  An interesting point: if Australia’s gun legislation had been the same as New Zealand’s, would the mosque massacres have occurred in Australia rather than in Christchurch?
  
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  November 16, 2019 5:15pm
Straight arrow

YouGov poll site on popularity of UK leaders:
Most popular for each group:
Men: Johnson
Women: Johnson
Baby boomers: Johnson
Gen X (25-39): Johnson
Millennials (<25): Corbyn.

My take.
Generation that want free stuff vote for….
Politician that's offering free stuff is…
Generations that are paying for "free" stuff vote for…
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November 16, 2019 3:15pm
Awww C-mon

Been awhile, is the blog/moderation/timing issues better or still a pain in the arse?
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November 16, 2019 4:41pm
- Awww C-mon
  
  Gee, well I’m pleasantly surprised.
  
  Thanks Mod…. maybe I’ll try kicking around for awhile again, and on the subject of a good kicking how’s Stephie?
  
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  November 16, 2019 4:47pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Awww C-mon:
  
  Have you considered commenting at YSB? From today’s Have Your Say thread:
  
  I set up YSB,because I was pissed off with the moderation of comments on Kiwiblog. Here at YSB, It is not moderated in any way,. I occasionally look at comments in the back end on the comments page. I have only had cause to delete comments because they didn’t conform to my ideals. Other than that, it’s been self moderating.
  
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  November 16, 2019 4:59pm
  - Awww C-mon
    
    I’ve been on Twitter a fair bit Nostra, I read YSB a bit but it hasn’t grabbed my attention enough to comment, I did consider playing at the standard but they actually are fucking nuts.
    
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    November 16, 2019 6:50pm
tranquil

Great video here –
“Four Tactics of Linguistic Terrorism and How to Combat Them” –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQreNYUsi34
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November 16, 2019 4:44pm
Straight arrow

Wikipedia and transgender wokeness.
I happened to want to know a Hubbard’s name before he started using Laurel. I thought at least Wikipedia might refer to it, but no. I went back and found they used to (Gavin, by the way), but it had been removed sometime after March this year.

Yes, I understand “deadnaming”, but not referencing his old name, for example if you wanted to look for previous mentions of him before transitioning, is stupid.
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November 16, 2019 4:49pm
- Awww C-mon
  
  I tried to find previous records of Hubbard’s weightlifting to compare pre and post totals. I thought it would be interesting to know what effects the treatments had had.
  I’ve read GH competed, I’ve found LH totals but nothing for GH so either no registered events (which I doubt) or totals removed (which I would find very surprising) … did you know Hubbard well enough to be able to confirm pre-transition competing?
  
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  November 16, 2019 6:54pm
  - Straight arrow
    
    I do not know Hubbard at all, it was just a google rabbithole thing.
    From New Zealand Interschool’s Weightlifting Championship 2015
    105+ Junior National Records: Snatch 135kg C&J 170kg Total 300kg Gavin Hubbard (all these records)
    Important to note that so few juniors in NZ, and records are well off international junior records, and Hubbard was off the pace by about 25%.
    
    Hubbard seems to be lifting less, but here is important thing: Relative to men, Hubbard is well off pace, and even if hadn’t transitioned, I doubt
    would be close to world-class (wasn’t as a junior, as noted above).
    
    I suspect a lot fewer women weightlift, and though Hubbard has lost some power, is more competitive internationally competing as a woman.
    Regardless of whether one’s views on transgenderism in general, the issue of trans women participating in women events is a question that needs to be addressed, in my opinion.
    
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    November 16, 2019 10:57pm
Tauhei Notts

I read where ACT’s Beth Houlbrooke got a crowd of 400 to a meeting in Dargaville.
That is an incredible number to get to a political meeting in our country. In Dargaville???!!!
Then I thought; Rob Muldoon went around the provincial areas of New Zealand in early 1975 getting phenomenal numbers, but as it was provincial New Zealand it escaped the notice of the main stream news media. Later in 1975 he exactly reversed Labour’s incredible margin in parliament.
I thought; are we seeing something that is the beginning of something extraordinary in N.Z. politics.
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November 16, 2019 6:29pm
Happychappy

I will probably get cried down for this but if Act and David Seymour don’t improve in the polls by the end of March with figure showing they could win two or three seats at the next Election. I also think David Seymour warning Paul Goldsmith not to stand against him is arrogant and dangerous as Politics is about trust not threats.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/david-seymour-warns-paul-goldsmith-against-trying-to-win-epsom.html
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November 16, 2019 7:31pm

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