General Debate 3 October 2019

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artemisia

Let’s Get Wellington Moving gets murkier with the release of Treasury emailed advice on the Cabinet paper. The Treasury pointed out some serious flaws in the Cabinet paper like lack of explanation for important decisions, costs not justifying benefits and emotive, anecdotal content. Recommended Cabinet note but not sign off.

Cabinet noted and endorsed. So much for the Treasury kids.

According to the Herald article yesterday Treasury said –

“Why is the Minister [Phil Twyford] proposing to build the second Mt Vic tunnel after rapid transit has been delivered? There is no explanation for this sequencing”

“Given that the Minister is asking Cabinet to endorse a large and costly package of investments, we consider it important that Cabinet is aware that the benefits may not justify the costs.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12273062
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October 3, 2019 8:03am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Where’s the letter Julie-Anne?
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:14am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s now more important than ever that Julie Anne Genter fronts up and releases her letter to Phil Twyford for public scrutiny.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:31am
  - sooty
    
    Not till the election closes. Silly!
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:36am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A new National Government will stop this ignoring Treasury advice. Any kid living in Hataitai would have laughed at the idea–“where’s a tunnel going to go to?” Costly waste.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:15am
niggly

Dickhead of the Day Award must surely go to NZ Maori Council member Matthew Tukaki who yesterday whored himself to media to whinge about the UK High Commissioner using the words “regret” instead of “apology” in relation to Maori being killed during their “first encounters” with Captain Cook.

Turns out that the word “regret” was negotiated by the UK and local Maori as Rongowhakaata iwi’s general manager Amohaere Houkamau explained on Morning Report today and she had no problem with it at all.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018716014/rongowhakaata-welcomes-recognition-of-the-pain-and-loss

Perhaps “other” Maori need to stay out of the way and not assume or speak on behalf of those that were actually affected and are dealing with it themselves with the Crown and the UK HC?
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October 3, 2019 8:06am
- Scott
  
  niggly – what worries me is the besmirching of the name of captain Cook as if he was definitely in the wrong about the incidents when he encountered natives. Has anyone else got an insight on this?
  Captain Cook has hitherto been treated with honour. I suspect pro Maori historical revisionism but I’m prepared to change my mind.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:22am
  - igm
    
    Well don’t you know Cook was a white male . . . they are maligned by lefties world over . . . maybe when they decide enough is enough and pull their money and expertise out of everything of value the leeches will starve and wake up.
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:37am
    - BeaB
      
      As Radio NZ said this morning, Cook could be seen today as a white supremacist!
      They also banged on and on about saying sorry instead of expressing regret!
      Then an announcer described Anne Salmond as an “imminent” expert. I think, semantics aside, we could all agree she has already reached that exalted status.
      
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      October 3, 2019 9:18am
      - Morrissey
        
        Was that announcer by any chance the hopeless and barely literate Susana Leiataua? Yesterday, as she struggled through an item about China, she said “Mao Zen Dong.”
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:37am
    - Morrissey
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      He’s not problematic because he was white, but because his men murdered the natives everywhere they went.
      
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      October 3, 2019 9:20am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        What utter crap, but to be expected from the escapee from the asylum.
        
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        October 3, 2019 9:58am
      - kowtow
        
        But the natives murdered each other every where they went , and that’s not problematic?
        
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        October 3, 2019 10:34am
      - Jack5
        
        Stick to your gropers, Mr Morrisey Breen. You’re wrong about Cook and other foreign explorers.
        
        How is your work coming along on Labour grope-athons?
        
        Beab is on target questioning the Leftist media’s beatification of Anne Salmond. She’s first an anthropologist, and there are many, many flaky anthropolgists. Some of them, and I suspect Salmond may be one, proclaim that all cultures are equal. That means the PNG cannibals who died from eating human brains had an equal civilisation to the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Romans.
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:18am
      - Morrissey
        
        That’s neither a coherent nor amusing reply, Cap’n. Lowest rating, sorry.
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:39am
      - igm
        
        Breen: You are a compulsive liar and distorter of fact. If there were ever murderers in his time it was your coloured heroes. Suppose you are attending the local mosque, it would be par for the course for your kind.
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:42am
      - rouppe
        
        I believe some of Cook’s men were also killed, by Maori.
        
        So if you bring a knife to a gunfight and lose, is that murder?
        
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        October 3, 2019 12:44pm
      - Morrissey
        
        Some of them, and I suspect Salmond may be one, proclaim that all cultures are equal.
        
        Which anthropologist says any such thing? And, judging by that speculation—disappointing from you, because you’re usually astute and considered in your comments— I suspect you’ve read as much of Anne Salmond as our friend “scrubone” has read of Nicky Hager.
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/hdpa_on_shane_jones.html/comment-page-1#comment-2568230
        
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        October 3, 2019 2:04pm
      - Jack5
        
        Morrissey, I like you for being here for debate, not just for snipe and run in the style of the Martin W. character.
        
        In response to your query: Try Franz Boas, anthropologist and pioneer of cultural relativism.
        
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        October 3, 2019 4:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    What worries me is how our elites think apologies, regreteries over long past historical events is in the least bit important or relevant to anyone today.
    
    Problem is it’s become down right trendy and every Tom Dick and Harry wants to appear to be “woke”.
    
    Blair , a genuine war criminal in the modern context , was a big proponent for the historical ( hysterical) apology while this current one comes from a gubmint that’s making shit loads of lula from selling weapons to the Saudis etc who chuck death and destruction about with gay abandon…….
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:45am
  - G152
    
    He was protecting the safety of his ship and crew at the bottom of the largest ocean on Earth with absolutely no hope of assistance if anything went wrong
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:49am
    - Michael
      
      G152
      Against savages that appeared to want to attack them.
      Same savages that enslaved, murdered and tortured their fellow tribes….
      as well as the infanticide.
      
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      October 3, 2019 11:08am
  - cmm
    
    Regardless, it is ridiculous to judge him by the values of today.
    
    Back then people were hanged for stock theft or burglary.
    
    Maori had a pretty casual attitude to death and killing. Those pa sites are not on hills for the wonderful seaside views.
    
    To claim that people at the time felt anguish etc that has lasted 250 years is beyond pathetic.
    
    Ultimately bugger the words, they really want koha.
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:08am
    - Morrissey
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Maori had a pretty casual attitude to death and killing.
      
      Wrong. The Europeans had a shockingly casual attitude to death and killing. They still do, as the citizens of Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and much of Africa will attest.
      
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      October 3, 2019 9:22am
      - cmm
        
        Moronsie:
        
        Sure Europeans had a casual attitude to death and killing, and I acknowledged that by mentioning the death sentence for burglary etc.
        
        You couldn’t take life too seriously then because people died like flies. Children routinely died of childhood diseases, flu, typhoid etc. Pretty much what rural Africa is like today.
        
        But the Maori had that too, but more.
        
        Are you telling me those hilltop sites are there for the stunning sunset views? Nope they are there because it gave a good look out for raiding bands coming for your women and kumara and to fill the freezer with bro burger patties.
        
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        October 3, 2019 10:08am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Those nasty, murderous Europeans.
        
        The Maori were fortunate to come under the aegis of the British Empire (who fought against slavery).
        
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        October 3, 2019 10:22am
      - lilman
        
        Lol show me a Muslim with a conscious and I’ll show you a woman who got traded for a goat.
        
        Poor women, oops don’t worry about women the are property.
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:21am
      - Jack5
        
        Morrissey Breen, in his item (now ticked out), may be right in implying that Maori were not casual about death and killing, or at least not in comparison with whites.
        
        Fattening up slaves ready for eating, or harvesting sufficient heads for a trade for guns and rum, does suggest a more organised, planned attitude to slaughter.
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:29am
      - Morrissey
        
        Fair comment, cmm. But, as Noam Chomsky makes clear, the most brutal and systematic violence was, and is, European.
        
        Well, the nation state is pretty much a European invention, I mean there were similar things, but the nation state in the modern form was largely created in Europe over many centuries. It’s so unnatural and artificial that it had to be imposed by extreme violence. In fact that’s the primary reason why Europe was the most savage part of the world for centuries. It was due to trying to impose a nation state system on cultures and societies that are varied and if you look at them had no relation to this artificial structure.
        
        In fact the derivative effects were also the main reason the concept spread elsewhere. In the course of creating modern nation states, Europe developed a culture of savagery and a technology of violence which enabled it to conquer the world, and as it conquered the world it attempted to impose nation state systems wherever it went, also artificial and violent. If you look at today’s major conflicts around the world, most of them are the residue of European efforts to impose nation state systems where it doesn’t make any sense, which is almost everywhere. The few exceptions to this are places of European colonization where they simply exterminated the indigenous population, like the United States and Australia. So there you get more homogeneous societies. On the other hand, the primary reason why the savage conflicts in Europe ended in 1945 was that it was recognized that if they continued this game any longer, they’d just wipe themselves out. So you have, since 1945, a peace internal to Europe. Germans and French don’t regard it as their highest goal in life to slaughter each other anymore.
        
        https://chomsky.info/20050518/
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:42am
      - cmm
        
        “Brutal and systematic”
        
        Naah bullshit – Chomsky is talking shit.
        
        Never the most brutal. But systematic maybe, only the Europeans and Asians have really managed to be systematic about anything.
        
        Give me some examples of European brutality and I’ll show you examples much worse.
        
        Go and have a read about the Mfecane when the Zulus wiped out approx 50% of the population of South Africa. They managed to do that with no modern weapons, no wheel, no horses – not even bows and arrows. Imagine if they had had wagons, horses, trucks and AK47s… They would have wiped out most of Africa.
        
        Their soldiers were trained to be stoic by running barefoot over thorns. If they flinched they got killed – on the spot – by having their necks twisted.
        
        Executions were carried out by having a stick shoved up your anus.
        
        So European brutality… pah!
        
        And Maori just taught each other poi dancing.
        
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        October 3, 2019 1:02pm
      - Morrissey
        
        Odakyu-san,
        
        When Cook came to New Zealand, Britain was still a country that engaged in the slave trade. I’m going to be charitable and simply assume you’d forgotten, rather than that you had no idea.
        
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        October 3, 2019 2:14pm
      - ByterNZ
        
        WOW, I wondered how they’d try to deny the Maori’s less than optimal outcome was caused by sticking with Sovereign Tribalism for too long and not evolving to a Nation State, and now I see, they’ll simply delegitimize Sovereign Nation States! That’s madness! There’s not one area still governed by Sovereign Tribalism, since Nation States are simply superior, and there’s no industrialization or investment in capital without the military protection of a Nation State. Utter delusion!
        
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        October 3, 2019 3:03pm
      - cmm
        
        Slave trade….
        
        Oh FFS. Everyone was involved in slavery at the time and it is stupid to judge them by modern values.
        
        Britain started unwinding slavery in 1772 – just three years after Cook was first in NZ.
        
        Maori were involved in slavery too, as was everyone.
        
        Britain was one of the first countries to abolish slavery and actually put a lot of resources into suppressing slavery through most of the 1800s and into the 1900s, especially fighting Muslims slavers on the East coast of Africa – a joyous Muslim business still practiced today.
        
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        October 3, 2019 3:15pm
      - Jack5
        
        Morrissey, Britain in 1807 banned purchase of slaves in the British Empire (except India, Sir Lanka and St Helena). In 1833 this was extended to a total ban on slavery through the British Empire.
        
        The Chatham Islands, which had been subjected to invasion and genocide before the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840 by Taranaki Maori, became part of New Zealand in 1843, but Maori were legally allowed to continue owning Moriori slaves there until 1863.
        
        So Maori continued to own slaves in pre-treaty NZ well after slavery had been banned by Cook’s home land.
        
        Until 1908 the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) continued to allow slaves to be sold, many of them young white girls taken from south-eastern Europe and the Caucasus.
        
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        October 3, 2019 3:38pm
  - niggly
    
    Hi Scott, here’s an ODT article (written by Erik Olssen – emeritus professor of history at the University of Otago) explaining what happened. If anything the deaths were unfortunate but understandable in the context of the situation at the time.
    
    Accordingly the use of the term “regret” seems rather appropriate when that context is understood. Perhaps that is why local Iwi yesterday were fine with the UK HC statement.
    
    It is true that Cook’s first encounter in New Zealand involved “the murder of innocent Maori”, although in this context “murder” is a loaded word, but there is no evidence of theft or kidnapping by the visitors on that occasion.
    
    Nor is murder the term used by most scholars who have carefully studied all the evidence, including such eminent authorities as Prof Dame Anne Salmond (see her recent Stuff article on whether Cook was a white supremacist).
    
    Without going into too much detail, Cook and his crew, who had not long left Tahiti where the stay had been relatively amicable, were unprepared for the hostile reception they received in Turanga (nor was it typical of their later encounters in New Zealand).
    
    Most pressingly, when the tangata whenua attempted to take Cook’s longboat he and his onshore party found themselves in immediate danger and at risk of losing their only means of retreat. They retaliated in the way that either side was likely to do at that time and in those circumstances.
    
    After firing a warning shot the coxswain shot a warrior who was preparing to throw his spear at one of the four boys left guarding the longboat. The following day Cook returned with two boats, both armed with swivel guns, and Tupaia, the Tahitian priest.
    
    Tupaia explained their peaceful intentions. Matters again got out of hand, however, and when one of the tangata whenua seized Green, the astronomer’s sword, he too was shot dead. In the ensuing melee three other Maori were wounded. Not surprisingly this has not been forgotten among their descendants; nor, understandably, do they all feel that Cook’s arrival warrants celebration.
    
    As a matter of historical fairness it needs to be pointed out, however, that despite the danger he had confronted, Cook was deeply upset about the outcome. Neither side knew the protocols of the other for dealing with strangers. It is completely untrue to claim, as Ms Balchin does, that “the diaries of Cook and Joseph Banks reveal that such actions were not isolated”.
    https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/simplicity-compounds-ignorance
    
    Dame Anne Salmond (left-wing historian) whilst not a fan of “colonialism etc” at least has some balance in pointing out that it was not a deliberate act of “murder” and wasn’t an act of “white supremacy” (as those were the words some radical activists were using earlier this year in the media), she says:
    
    Historian Dame Anne Salmond, from Gisborne, acknowledged there was “Nothing to celebrate”.
    
    Dame Anne provided primary evidence about the encounters in Turanga.
    
    From the evidence, it was clear Cook’s attempts to make a peaceful landing in Turanganui had been botched, and that in the process, he breached his orders, she said.
    
    “During these meetings, four Maori were killed, while at least five others were wounded and may also have died.”
    
    But Dame Anne asked whether that evidence suggested Cook was a white supremacist, contemptuous of Maori and willing to kill them at random.
    
    “In fact, the weight of evidence suggests otherwise.”
    http://gisborneherald.co.nz/localnews/4089572-135/encounter-or-murder
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:10am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      The Horis ate the Morioris and other Horis. I guess that fact will now be disputed to “cleanse” the Maori history.
      
      So Capt Cook killed a few Horis when they got out of hand.
      
      So what. Big deal. Yawn.
      
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      October 3, 2019 9:35am
      - GoVege
        
        “Hori” is not a nice expression to use, lastmanstanding.
        
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        October 3, 2019 12:26pm
      - Morrissey
        
        “Horis”? You racist POS.
        
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        October 3, 2019 2:15pm
    - GoVege
      
      It was obviously self defense.
      If Cook hadn’t protected his crew, the majority of the Maori population would have suffered slavery, torture, murder and cannibalism for even longer than they did.
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:49am
      - rouppe
        
        If nz hadn’t been claimed for the flag of England, it would have been claimed by the flags of either France or The Netherlands.
        
        Name one former colony of the latter two countries that is in a better state than nz.
        
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        October 3, 2019 12:53pm
      - Jack5
        
        Rouppe, if the French had colonised NZ, would the central North Island appealed to them as a nuclear test site?
        
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        October 3, 2019 3:51pm
    - GoVege
      
      Morrissey: dont compare the great nations of Britain and Europe with 1930s and 40s Germany temporarily under control of a bunch of psychos like Hitler and his mates.
      
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      October 3, 2019 12:40pm
  - srylands
    
    I have read two biographies of Cook and his edited journals. He was generally benevolent although he did become erratic and sometimes cruel in his later voyages. He was almost certainly suffering from physical and mental illness.
    
    In the 1769 deaths of Maori were either in self defence or to prevent stealing. The deaths were certainly regrettable. But Cook was benevolent by the standards of the time. I have no doubt that in the same circumstances, the Spanish would have wiped out every inhabitant they could find.
    
    On the second voyage, Maori in Endeavour inlet killed and ate a dozen of Cook’s crew. It is impossible to know what led to the incident because the crew killed were in a cutter gathering wood and they simply failed to return to the ship. Cook and a party found their remains. The crew were insistent that the entire hapu be killed in retaliation. However Cook refused and they sailed off.
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:55am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      So the poms decided to steal the entire country instead.
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:36am
      - srylands
        
        I guess the Spanish could have killed everyone instead.
        
        Or it could have been left to turn into another PNG.
        
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        October 3, 2019 12:11pm
      - Jack5
        
        Here comes the poster “Martin Williams” with his usual hit-and-run snipe then away before there can be a debate.
        
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        October 3, 2019 3:43pm
  - dave_c_
    
    Surely you have not caught up with the ‘changed record of NZ history’
    Get with it, get into line !
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:16am
  - namron
    
    Gisborne has become very divided with the “besmirching” of Cook during the past 2 years while the planning for the spending of millions of dollars on the te tuia 250 events has proceeded.
    Readily available online are the comprehensive diary accounts by Cook and Banks which tell of their intentions, what happened and the results of the arrival and landing in Poverty Bay.
    Nowhere have I seen or heard any acknowledgement or quotes from these records -people who were there, of what happened etc.
    There has been no shortage of false, rabid and very biased accounts which give an inaccurate version.
    Some consideration must also be given to the state of Maoridom in 1769. Maori were a stone-age race with an animistic beliefs and were constantly at war with other tribes.
    Their version of history is being accepted, while the 2 written accounts are never mentioned.
    As well, considerable research has been done on the reliability of “oral history” [we all know the results of the “Chinese whispers” game] so the Maori version of history is 250 years of related oral history.
    These efforts have resulted in what is happening
    around NZ in the next few weeks, so a very biased one-sided event can be expected.
    
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    October 3, 2019 1:00pm
    - GoVege
      
      “Biased” is right.
      Some Gisborner slandered the great Captain James Cook as a “genocidal murderer” and in the next breath complained that the 13 or so millions being spent on the commemorations should be spent “improving relations between the partners” or something.
      Translation probably should be…”give us that dosh instead”.
      
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      October 3, 2019 2:41pm
- G152
  
  Now that England has apologised for protecting the Endevour I look forward to a certain tribe in the north apologising to the Dutch for the murder of members of Abel Tasmans crew.
  And a wee apology to the Maoriori people of the Chathams might go down a treat while we’re at it.
  And we should really teach our history in schools
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:46am
- Positan
  
  The way the story is being played out is both imbalanced and, to an extent, farcical. Other than that some Gisborne Maori were killed, no other facts have been tendered. In all probability, it was Cook’s men who were attacked by Maori – and Maori died as a consequence. Why the Poms should now want to express regret for that seems puzzling – there having been far more significant issues in far more significant places for which “expressions of regret” could well be manifested – but PC has distorted and corrupted so many feeble minds I suppose we can now expect implicit “guilt” for just about anything.
  
  Contrastingly, I’ve heard no suggestion that Maori offer “an expression of regret” for the killing of du Fresne and 24 of his men in the Bay of Islands in 1772. (Mind you, the French did take du Fresne’s death far more to heart than Cook’s crowd and the resulting reprisal was far more deadly and severe.)
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:41am
  - plc
    
    When I was a kid in 1969 the Bicentenary was a big thing – I still have the stamps.
    
    The country celebrated the “discovery” of NZ by the British. Now it is an afterthought, something to be ashamed of apparently.
    
    Contrast this with what will happen in Australia for their 250th.
    
    Woke liberal cringe in all its glory is rampant in NZ.
    
    The line from Life of Brian was never truer.
    “What have the Romans ever given us”
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:14am
    - Morrissey
      
      Contrast this with what will happen in Australia for their 250th.
      
      There will be massive demonstrations and protests, as there were in 1988. Australia, as you know but probably don’t like to admit, is one of the most racist and disgusting countries on the planet, and is run by reprobates and imbeciles.
      
      “In Canberra last week I met some Australian members of parliament. It gave me hope, because until I heard them speak I had always thought that Israel’s right wing politicians were the worst. —-(LAUGHTER)— I’ve never heard any Israeli politician speak about the Palestinian people the way that those Australian politicians did. But they are Australia’s problem, not mine. (LAUGHTER) I spoke with the Australian foreign minister; she talked and she was very nice but we could not agree on anything. (LAUGHTER)”
      
      —- Israeli journalist GIDEON LEVY, speaking in Auckland, 3 December 2017
      
      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2017/12/unbelievable-brutality-day-after-day.html
      
      https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/11/three-thoughtful-kiwi-commentatorswell.html
      
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      October 3, 2019 2:25pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  What has annoyed me throughout this saga is where Maori oral history is treated as inviolable, and actual documentary evidence, such as Captain Cook’s log, is treated as suspect.
  
  While I have no doubt whatsoever that the actual truth lies somewhere closer to t he middle of both versions of events, it must be acknowledged that neither side is totally blameless in this matter.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:57am
- Liberty
  
  How appalling is this.
  What should have happened is a big thank you from the Maori . For bringing technology
  To this barren land. Stone age to the 17th century.
  Real houses, Warm Blankets, Nails , metal tools etc.
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:02am
  - GoVege
    
    …rule of law, benefits, hospitals, contraception, education, rocknroll…
    
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    October 3, 2019 12:30pm
- The King
  
  [laughs in colonial oppression]
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:35am
Iamright

Today we have Pike River re-entry for the 29 “families”. But how many families are there actually involved. Rumour has it there is only about 4 families pushing the issue and if that is the case we are looking at $10m cost each family to satisfy there wish. Does someone have some better information than me?
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October 3, 2019 8:09am
- sooty
  
  How wide is the portal?
  Is there enough room to turn around?
  Are they using double ended drift runner?
  170m in, you might as well just go in the broom cupboard and shut the door. How much is this costing for the day, buses, trip in, bbq, emergancy services, etc!
  Little Andrew, your a dickhead!
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:29am
- kowtow
  
  The Media Party are responsible for the imagery , coverage , tone etc of so many aspects in modern life .
  If only people would come alive to that .
  
  Fake news is real .
  
  Last night tv1 did a Kapiti coastal erosion , managed retreat story under the guise of “climate change /rising sea levels” Stuff the same today.
  
  Project Fear is the only game in town.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:31am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Coastal erosion is determined by the subtle movements on the sea floor. It is the sub-surface ocean currents that move the sand. I worked with a consulting firm on trying to tame Taranaki coastlines. A tiny change in one spot could have large unpredictable consequences.
    
    Will TV1 next attribute movements of water in the bath tub to bathroom climate varying with, the greenhouse gas, water vapour?
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:25am
    - kowtow
      
      Only if you fart in the bath…….
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:36am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    “Fake news is real .” ?
    
    Or is merely those that you find disagreeable or don’t share?
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:50am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Antarctic scientist this morning on National Radio telling us we’ve started the process to 20m higher sea levels. Only near the end of the interview was she asked when this would happen and she admitted that these are very long processes.
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:57am
- kevn
  
  @Iam… So, (some of) the families are going to bravely enter the mine, all 170m. The length of my driveway.
  Only about 200om to go.
  Will never happen.
  What a tragic (now) politicalized event thanks to little and whinney.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:32am
- lilman
  
  Over the whole thing, grow up, move on stop eating my money.
  Pathetic.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:37am
- cmm
  
  That’s what I heard too.
  
  Everyone knows there are no bodies coming out. Most would prefer to seal the place up and leave it like a grave.
  
  Of course tis won’t be the end. More koha.
  
  These families should pull their heads in and admit that the miners who lost their lives all played a part in their own demise. That might not be something that is nice to face, but it is true.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:39am
  - Michael
    
    CMN
    Thats right, for months the crew ignored and acted in an unsafe manner.
    That doesn’t let management off but they share culpability and that hasn’t been clearly enunciated by the Government, families or the media.
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:13am
- Yvette
  
  “… go past the 170 and that’s … where a lot of the evidence is going to be – that’s where it lies – and that’s what is important for the families to bring about future prosecutions” – Sonya Rockhouse, AM Show this morning
  
  Without access to the mine itself, can any evidence found in the drift be conclusive enough to stand alone without reasonable doubt? Is that even possible?
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:45am
- KiWombat
  
  It’s nearly 9am and so far I’ve only noticed three or four “foreign” cars headed up the road to the mine and a Police car as well.
  
  Either it is looking for speeding motorists, or they may expect some dissent up at the mine !
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:52am
- igm
  
  What a political farce this is . . . these poor buggers should be left to rest in peace, not be used as pawns by unscrupulous leeches such as Peters, Little, et al. Shows how low this CoL can stoop.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:03am
Luke Piewalker

Back in NZ for the first time in a while and it’s quite noticeable the economy has flat tyres

But then I read Ardern talking about it being caused by ‘global head winds’ and I see nothing of the kind around the world

Seems Ardern is just making shit up again
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October 3, 2019 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  Who let the air out ?
  Ardern and Co . First attack oil and gas , then farmers, then landlords ……..
  
  Feel free to add to the list.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:24am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Unborn babies.
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:35am
    - stephieboy
      
      Chuck Bird, not forgetting the opposition ( Including NZ First) who supported the changes!
      
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      October 3, 2019 9:52am
  - sooty
    
    What is one Labour policy that has worked as planned and had to be revisited to down grade the results?
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:38am
  - srylands
    
    It could be a bad time in a couple of years. Interest rates close to zero. Flat growth and tax revenue but structurally high expenditure as programs like fees free education, the gun buyback and the PGF hoover up the cash. Then we have a hangover with low quality infrastructure like cycleways and no money for desperately needed urban and intra urban roads.
    
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    October 3, 2019 8:57am
  - Simon
    
    Climate change bullshit
    Anti business crackpots greens in government
    Minimum wage set to high and heading higher
    Petrol tax – which hits working poor the hardest
    Panic from RBNZ who are reacting to a useless government – sends wrong signals
    Australia owned banks reacting by attempting to reduce NZ exposure – credit contraction
    Ardern an utter flake – lowers people’s confidence in government
    Higher taxation- via bracket creep
    Failed reforms in needed areas like housing and transport
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:03am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “Minimum wage set to high and heading higher”
      
      And who started the ball rolling in regard to that??
      
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      October 3, 2019 9:53am
    - Fletch
      
      ‘We didn’t start the fire.
      It was always burning,
      since the world been turning’
      
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      October 3, 2019 1:58pm
  - Morrissey
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Not attacking farmers, just the polluters. The Dirty Dairy mob, you know.
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:28am
    - kowtow
      
      Humans who live in towns and cities ,shit into pans , where’s the shit go ? Out to sea , into lakes and rivers .
      But that’s OK as long as they have an identifiable hate group to blame .
      Aided and abetted by councils who’ve declared climate emergencies , crises, concerns etc
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:40am
    - Bell-47
      
      I would have thought your reappearance would be considered at the very least a parole period of sorts? Seems trolling is your first goto. Good luck with that in the future..perhaps a very short future..
      
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      October 3, 2019 11:38am
  - Martin Williams
    
    What do landlords do to contribute to the economy, ffs?
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:37am
    - softail 1450
      
      Martin Williams , DPF should just have your name engraved on the “Fuckwit of the day award” cup ….
      
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      October 3, 2019 1:13pm
    - Komata
      
      MW@10.37
      
      Re: ‘What do landlords do to contribute to the economy, ffs?’
      
      Aside from providing shelter for otherwise -homeless families, paying taxes, a variety of rates, tradies to repair what the otherwise-homeless familes have damaged, paying contractors to mow lawns etc., and in some cases purchasing furniture, curtains, other house-type items etc. (even food), from retailers, and keeping bank staff employed by borrowing money from their employers, Landlords do absolutely nothing to contribute to the economy.
      
      Thanks for asking; I gather that you are not involved in the sector…..
      
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      October 3, 2019 1:21pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      houses for people who cannot afford to buy or build their own. You think that just giving everyone a free house is a viable or desirable approach? Every experiment along those lines (Marxism) has ended in widespread misery.
      
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      October 3, 2019 2:38pm
  - pdm
    
    Gun owners.
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:06am
Maggie Pie

Ex-CIA Analyst says… “Only reason New Zealand invited to join intelligence sharing alliance was because ‘4 EYES’ sounded silly” 🙂

Proposes kicking NZ out …

https://twitter.com/WhosFibbing/status/1179150266769104896
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October 3, 2019 8:11am
- srylands
  
  It wouldn’t take much.
  
  I feel sorry for the good men and women in the defence and intelligence services. Imagine being in the RNZAF and you turn up for exercises in your 50 year old Orion and then it breaks down.
  
  Both National and Labour Governments are to blame in what has happened to the RNZAF.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:03am
  - Bell-47
    
    I’m embarrassed to call it an “air force” it couldn’t be further from the truth. The C-130’s and the P-3’s are all from the mid to late 60’s and are well past their use by date irrespective of the “upgrades”. Couple that with a Beechcraft 9 seater for “air warfare” trining is laughable. then you have the PM’s very own Airforce One, a clapped out 757 for “strategic air lift”, what a load of bollocks. It’s a joke. I have to say, for all the faults of NZF at least Mark managed to get some new aircraft added to the fleet albeit more search and surveillance than tactical. I’m deliberately not mentioning the rotor craft as they add nothing to the fleet, short range, weather dependant aircraft..not much use.
    
    http://airforce.mil.nz/about-us/what-we-do/aircraft/default.htm
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:54am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Why are you giving Ron Mark the credit? Those new planes were already planned under the National Govt.
      
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      October 3, 2019 12:57pm
    - softail 1450
      
      Bell 47,Until quite recently our Navy were using a privately owned Korean war era attack jet for “fast aircraft detection” I think it was a Hawker Hunter.
      Unfortunately the Navy couldn’t afford to keep paying the owner for that service and it ceased so hopefully if war breaks out our Navy only get attacked by 1st world war aircraft,,,,,,LOL.
      
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      October 3, 2019 1:21pm
      - Jack5
        
        A chance for NZ to get back aircraft to back up ground support …
        
        Here’s the propeller-driven ground attack planes the US Marines want. NZ could afford these. They would increase the potential impact of our army, and keep training a force of pilots.
        
        https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2018/06/01/senators-want-100-million-new-marine-corps-light-attack-aircraft.html
        
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        October 3, 2019 3:49pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      Haha Dont equate age with ability 🙂
      How old are you again?
      
      You will of course be aware that the most Hitec airforce in the world USAF still use aicraft built in the 50s..
      The B52, over 700 of them.
      
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      October 3, 2019 7:02pm
  - Komata
    
    srylands@1003
    
    With Helun and Phil being especially averse to things that went ‘bang’, but only when it suited their political purposes and involved the USA.
    
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    October 3, 2019 1:26pm
Luke Piewalker

Ardern for a Nobel peace price… for what?

Allowing sex abuse in her own office
Tanking an economy
Wearing a headscarf (the sign of oppression)

Says a lot about the left doesn’t it
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October 3, 2019 8:15am
- Yvette
  
  Nobel Prize – Nomination and selection of Peace Prize Laureates
  February – Deadline for submission. In order to be considered for the award of the year, nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize shall be sent in to the Norwegian Nobel Committee in Oslo before the 1st day of February the same year. – https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/
  
  Possible spoiler?
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:00am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Wearing a headscarf (the sign of oppression)”
  
  ????
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:54am
  - Michael
    
    err where have you been?
    REM Saudi women sentenced to jail for not wearing them….
    
    Ah I forgot you’re just a drive by.
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:16am
  - The King
    
    I’m with Stephie on this.
    
    Islam is right about:
    
    Women
    Gays
    Jews
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:39am
    - Komata
      
      The King@1139
      
      Re: ‘Islam is right about:
      
      Women
      Gays
      Jews’
      
      Would you care to elaborate?
      
      Thank you.
      
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      October 3, 2019 1:28pm
- Martin Williams
  
  I fit happens could you please post a clip of your head exploding?
  
  Thanks.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:39am
- Michael
  
  No Luke
  It says a lot about Jacinda Adhern.
  She happens to be of the left.
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:15am
krazykiwi

Worried about a Climate Crisis? Fearful of leaving a melted, sea swapmed, uninhabitable planet for your children?

Great! Armed with that worry and freshly stoked fear, you’re ready to take the next step and start working on Net-Zero CO2 by 2050.

To avoid complete socetal breakdown, wars, famine and disease (hint: that’s what you’re trying to avoid with de-carbonisation – right?), we need to retain energy availability, and to grow it as poverty is eradicated over the next 30 years. Here’s how we intend to do that:

The math here is simple: to achieve net-zero carbon dioxide emissions by 2050, the world would need to deploy 3 Turkey Point nuclear plants worth of carbon-free energy every two days, starting tomorrow and continuing to 2050. At the same time, a Turkey Point nuclear plant worth of fossil fuels would need to be decommissioned every day, starting tomorrow and continuing to 2050.

Now these power plants cost around $US20b, so that’s $US20b that needs to be found every day, for the next 11,000 days. Give or take. The author continues:

I’ve found that some people don’t like the use of a nuclear power plant as a measuring stick. So we can substitute wind energy as a measuring stick. Net-zero carbon dioxide by 2050 would require the deployment of ~1500 wind turbines (2.5 MW) over ~300 square miles, every day starting tomorrow and continuing to 2050.

Wind turbines of this size cost $US4m each, so that’s a snip at just $US6b per day for the next 11,000 days. There’s just that little problem of them wearing out and needing replacement every 15 years, and the need for some other form of power supply when the wind isn’t blowing. Also, those ~300 square miles would require 8.5m share miles of wind turbines, enough to cover every inch of Brazil with the tri-rotor bird killers.

All this sounds a bit difficult right? Easier just to yell ‘Denier!!!!’ ?
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October 3, 2019 8:15am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Any Greenie in NZ actually lives in huge luxury: western healthcare, transport (petrol or electric – either is a huge luxury), schooling, trade.
  
  If they want true equality for the world population, we either have to find extreme means of producing power or vastly reduce the population size.
  
  Greenies who have children and don’t speak up about population size are not Greenies at all.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:12am
  - theoldbloke
    
    The population has and will stabilise around current levels.
    Dont believe that?
    Take 10 minutes and view this video and the real stats.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg
    
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    October 3, 2019 7:08pm
Maggie Pie

More Climate Change bullshite.

Waiting, waiting …

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF5K7ljWkAEPPvS?format=jpg&name=900×900
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October 3, 2019 8:21am
kowtow

Anyone notice how traffic flows so freely ( relatively) during the school holidays ?

If all those pupils so concerned about imminent extinction walked or biked to school the planet might have a few extra days till Armageddon.
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October 3, 2019 8:22am
- sooty
  
  Your joking of course, my mummy has got a new SUV and nice comfy seats. You don’t expect me to walk with all of them poor people from over the tracks do you! Besides to get to the flash school, we have to travel from one side of town to the other!
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:34am
- alex Masterley
  
  Never a truer word was said.
  The same applies to students at any of the universities.
  Gives the phrase “On ya Bike” an entirely different meaning.
  I add that my sons either walk to school (mr 14) or scooter (mr 12).
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:39am
- Swifty
  
  30% of Auckland peak hour trips are education related.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:57am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    95% are mobile phone assisted
    
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    October 3, 2019 12:05pm
- chaos
  
  They moan and march about the older generations but it is this generation marching that are the least environmental friendly. They have become the throw away generation, but it’s ok they have new iPhones now
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:08am
- DigNap15
  
  Yes its always a pleasure to drive around my city on school holidays.
  When I went to school hundreds of us biked home all along the main road 4abreast.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Looks like the school kids better start with themselves and their mates, if they want to lower their C footprint.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/116286172/new-census-data-reveals-more-than-half-of-nzs-students-use-private-vehicles-to-commute
  
  I don’t recall ever being driven to school in a private car.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:07am
  - Michael
    
    No, bus and 10 speed for me.
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:18am
Paulus

I am interested to see that the Christchurch Architect Alan Reay is to be brought before his one time Professional Architect Body to answer why the CTV building fell down, being a building his firm designed.
Simply there was a huge earthquake.
I would ask however why it was not designed to the building standards applicable at the time it was built.
It was ?
Then presumably the Christchurch City Council approved every phase of the construction ?
Somebody – being a person signed off the construction – or has the file got lost ?
Having recently done some relatively small house alterations I know how tight the Council are on every phase of construction.
There for may we presume that nobody in the Council has/is to be brought to account similarly to Alan Reay ?
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October 3, 2019 8:29am
- Tricati
  
  The building performed as it should have in the September Earthquake and didn’t collapse, but I suspect the structure was compromised. The question I have is who inspected the building after the September event, and said it was safe to occupy when there were signs of visible distress.
  There were a number of buildings in CHC that survived the EQ’s, but on detailed structural analysis, needed to be pulled down – As were some in Wellington, so I suspect the approval of occupants into the CTV building post September is the bigger concern.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:04am
- peterwn
  
  A few corrections needed here. Alan Reay was a professional engineer responsible for the structural design of the building and would have been engaged to work alongside the architects.
  Following the failure Engineering NZ (the professional body) commenced disciplinary action which could have seen him struck off or suffer lesser action. He chose to resign to avoid disciplinary action and Engineering NZ considered it could not take further action. To cut a long story short, the matter was referred to the High Court who ruled that Engineering NZ could take action despite his resignation and Engineering NZ is quite properly abiding by that court decision.
  Councils do rely on ‘producer statements’ from suitably qualified engineers and others when approving building permit proposals so it is critical that these professionals get things right. It is also worth noting that these professionals are not merely responsible to the client but to others such as a future purchaser of the building or other works (they cannot contract out of this).
  The families of the victims of this building collapse quite rightfully expect professionals to be held to account if shortcomings in their work contributed to the building collapse.
  As far as I know, proportionately far fewer engineers and architects face such disciplinary action than do lawyers.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:12am
  - Lipo
    
    I have never understood the process here. The building survived the first earth quake. It was assessed by the council to be sound. It fell down in the 2nd earthquake and killed a number of people. The person at fault is Alan Reay and not the people who assessed the building after the first earthquake. Does’t make sense to me.
    I don’t know much about engineering and earthquakes but I also know that engineers don’t know much either
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:43am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Sorry Peter, fat fingers
    
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    October 3, 2019 12:08pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  A correction, if I may
  “Simply there was a huge earthquake.”
  There were 2 earthquakes, one a year before the collapse.
  “Then presumably the Christchurch City Council approved every phase of the construction ?”
  More importantly, the council signed off on the safety, AFTER the first large earthquake.
  Q: How many earthquakes does a building have to survive, before the council stops shifting blame?
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:13am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I agree. If there was any doubt as to the structural soundness of the CTV Building after the September 2010 quake, it should have been red-stickered.
    
    Sure, they may have been faults in the design, and one hopes that Reay is eventually held to account for that. But the CTV Building was signed off by the Christchurch City Council on construction, and again after the September 2010 earthquake. on that basis, the CCC is not without culpability.
    
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    October 3, 2019 9:50am
  - cmm
    
    The bottom line hear is that engineering involves a degree of risk taking and sometimes shit happens.
    
    As a society we have to accept risk and we have to accept that sometimes the dice roll wrong and shit happens.
    
    If we are not prepared to accept risk then we won’t have transport. We won’t have multi-story buildings. We won’t have knives, matches, electricity,…
    
    Was the decision to not red sticker CTV correct? Well maybe it was given the info and expected risk profile at the time.
    
    Sure, after an eathquake we expect the risk of eathquakes to increase but what did CTV in was the massive ground acceleration way higher than is typically experienced with an EQ of that magnitude.
    
    If CTV should have been red stickered then so too should hundreds of other buildings that were not and failed – some failing far worse than CTV.
    
    Engineers have to make those decisions on our behalf. Most of us will never make decisions more serious than cinnamon or chocolate on cappuccino. Engineers sometimes have to make decisions which have much more serious consequences.
    
    Let’s not throw rocks at the engineers using hindsight. That is not constructive. It just leads to more and more risk aversion which often makes things worse for society because capable people get put off engineering.
    
    New Zealand engineering is extremely good and mostly gets the calls right. Since the Hawkes Bay EQ in a931 there have been less than 200 EQ deaths in NZ. That is, on average, less than 3 a year. Bugger all.
    
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    October 3, 2019 3:38pm
- niggly
  
  Talking about the Council being held to account – I recall TV news stories after the first (2010) earthquake in which people who were still working in the CTV building were saying that whenever large trucks went past, the floors would move (vibrate etc) and they were rightly concerned about it.
  
  So then how come the Council didn’t red-sticker the building after the 2010 earthquake and allowed it to be used (until it collapsed in the Feb 2011 earthquake)?
  
  Granted I don’t claim to be an engineer and perhaps the council relied on building design information when making their assessments (hence Alan Reay et al may still be at fault) … but to disregard the warnings of the occupants that heavy concrete floors Weighing tons and tons) were “moving” when trucks went past, surely that should have set off alarm bells?
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:26am
- MCos
  
  Alan Reay is an engineer.
  
  At the time of the building’s design and construction he belonged to the Institute of Professional Engineers, which wanted to investigate his procedures. He resigned from the Institute and argued that they, or anyone else, therefore no longer had the right to do so.
  The matter went to court and finally he’s lost.
  Engineering New Zealand, new name of the Institute, will now investigate and determine if it proceeds to the Disciplinary Committee.
  
  So there you go.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:31am
- gravedodger
  
  Following the September quake centered on Charing Cross, some as yet unknown person/s certified the CTV building as safe for occupation again.
  February 2011 and it collapsed killing most of the dead for the City.
  I am no defender of The engineering designer but it seems rather odd he is alone in being responsible.
  
  The structure was signed off after construction, then cleared again after the first quake, by “WHO”?
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:42am
cmm

More Climate change hysteria over on Stuff.

A 45cm sea level rise by 2100 is now guaranteed.

A rise of over 20 metres could happen if a third of Antarctica melts.

It is now basically 2020. To rise 45cm by 2100 means now well over 5mm per year. The sea level rise better wake up and get going then otherwise it will be left behind.

To melt a third of Antarctica needs an absurd amount of energy. The ice sheet is over 3km in places. This will undoubtedly happen again some time, but it won’t be caused by man made climate change. Melting ice requires latent heat (the energy required to change ice into water). Each ton of ice needs 334 MJ of energy (running your jug for 2 days solid). Billions and billions of tons of ice need melting.
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October 3, 2019 8:34am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It is likely to rise about 22 to 23cm if the sea level continues to rise at the same rate as it has for the last 100 years. That is 2.84mm/yr.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:41am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Surely the vast amount of silt coming down the Amazon, Ganges, Mississippi and all the other massive rivers and landing on the sea floor would account for at least 2.84 mm/yr.
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:11am
    - cmm
      
      Most silt falls out of the water shortly after hitting the sea hence the building of deltas etc.
      
      Hence the Ganges Delta, Mississippi Delta etc. Pretty much the whole of Bangladesh is on Delta land which is why they are so prone to flooding.
      
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      October 3, 2019 4:58pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Please show me the Amazon delta on a map. That silt is on the bottom of the sea up to 500 km offshore.
        
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        October 3, 2019 5:03pm
- oldgolfer
  
  Stuff and others are making fools of themselves by pushing this endlessly and I’m sure I’m not alone in switching off to the bullshit.
  Stuff has only cheapened what was already a very tarnished brand.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:46am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Stuff’s only value used to be having a comments section which clearly showed that the majority of Kiwis have fairly reasonable, sceptical and medium/conservative views, especially when it comes to the government spending our tax dollars!
    
    But that was too democratic for Stuff, people weren’t saying and up-ticking what the CoL want us to say.
    
    So they had to shut us up. Chch was the perfect excuse for that.
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:28am
  - RiP NZ
    
    Fk Stuff.
    That’s all they deserve based on their content
    
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    October 3, 2019 3:48pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Around the world we have mostly 1-2mm yr sea level rise from subsidence corrected tidal gauges.
  Icecap melt is contributing less than 1mm a year and less than half of that is Arctic and Greenland.
  
  Water extraction from aquifers is of similar impact – and will taper off in a few decades as water levels are drawn down. Then there is the 10’s of mm contribution from the Aral and Caspian seas being evaporated away that will stop. The energy required to melt, heat and expand water to create 5mm sea level rise is astronomical, and there is no sign of it happening.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:50am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    I think the concern is not that the antarctic ice will melt and flow into the ocean, but that the ice will slide into the ocean and then melt. There is plenty of latent heat in the oceans to do this. (I am not making any claim about the probability of this.)
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:15am
    - kowtow
      
      The concern is that if scientists stop the catastrophic predictions then pollies will cut their funding.
      Which would be a good thing.
      I don’t like my taxes being spent on spreading fear and panic.
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:48am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Sad thing is I would give far more credence to such ice-shelf claims if the climate scare industry wasn’t endlessly exaggerating and faking confidence and certainty over pretty much everything else they wrongly predict. The boy who cried wolf writ large.
      
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      October 3, 2019 2:42pm
    - cmm
      
      If the ice falls in the ocean then it will raise the water level by the same amount whether it melts or not.
      
      This has been well understood since, well, forever. This is known as Archimedes’ Principle and Archimedes popped his clogs 250BC or so.
      
      People who do not even understand Archimedes Principle should not be using fancy terms like “latent heat”.
      
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      October 3, 2019 5:03pm
- Michael Rodent
  
  Fundamental problem with the Stuff (Victoria University) study is that is based on the belief that CO2 causes temperature increases when most of the science does either not show this or shows that increases in CO2 levels are a delayed consequence of normal climatic temperature rises – not the cause of it. As a friend said – it is a bit like claiming that high tides cause a full moon.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:05am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Michael Rodent,but it does,
    
    “How do we know more CO2 is causing warming?”
    
    An enhanced greenhouse effect from CO2 has been confirmed by multiple lines of empirical evidence.
    
    Climate Myth…
    Increasing CO2 has little to no effect
    “While major green house gas H2O substantially warms the Earth, minor green house gases such as CO2 have little effect…. The 6-fold increase in hydrocarbon use since 1940 has had no noticeable effect on atmospheric temperature … ” (Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide)…”
    
    “https://skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-co2-enhanced-greenhouse-effect.htm
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:03am
    - Michael Rodent
      
      What the Victoria University study has concluded is both scientifically unsound and illogical. What they are effectively saying is that a gas that is in a concentration of around 400ppm (just think how small that is) of which human generation is about 5% (so even a more minute concentration) is responsible for heating the ocean to such a degree that ice shelfs melt.
      The stupidity of this can be shown by the analogy of running a bath of cold water and trying to heat it by putting several heaters in the room. It would take intense heat and a very long time to have any material impact on the water temperature and then only at the surface.
      The fact is that the climate alarmists are really the climate deniers.
      
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      October 3, 2019 11:49am
- Yvette
  
  I don’t think the average jug power lead is long enough to allow this to happen.
  We are safe.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:08am
- RW Capitalist
  
  a lot of very BIG….IFs in that.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:13am
- peterwn
  
  Many people do not seem to have got the message yet. I am still looking for a beach front house in Waikanae at a knock-down price.
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:16am
  - Pateke
    
    You can get a cheap beach front beer if you join the Waikanae Boating Club peterwn
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:00am
- Andrei
  
  That is just the enegry required to change ice at 0C to water at 0C
  
  Before that phase change can occur you have to raise the temperature of the ice from whatever it is to 0C.
  
  Continental Antarctic ice is some where between -20 to -40c
  
  Famously it tales 1 joule of energy to raise 1 cubic centimeter of liquid water 1 degree c – ice is a bit different and the value depends on its crystaline form but the value is not too far off that
  
  You can do the math and it is obvious that Antartica is nor going to loose its ice on a time scale that matters to us
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:27am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Andre, c & p from where?
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:03am
    - rangitoto
      
      Which fact are you disputing? The temperature of the Antarctic ice, or the energy required to raise the temperature of a volume of water? The latter is found in any elementary high school chemistry text. I guess you skipped those classes but you can always look it up in your copy of Kaye and Laby if you want an authoritative source.
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:39am
      - rangitoto
        
        PS. The specific heat of ice is around half that of water.
        
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        October 3, 2019 11:52am
  - Kabull
    
    I think the estimate is around 120,000 years!
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:06am
    - kowtow
      
      By that time much of the country will have risen quite a few metres , from tectonic uplift , so hold onto your hats , it could be quite a ride.
      Mind you the bits that go under the plates are the ones I wouldn’t want to invest in …….
      
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      October 3, 2019 10:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    not joule. calorie. Specific heat of water is 4.18J/°C/g water, and latent heat of fusion of water is 334J/g, so melting takes about the same energy as heating water up by 80°C
    
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    October 3, 2019 2:45pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The 93 volcanoes under the Antarctic may help if they all blew up together. (From a Green Dream in Springtime.)
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:32am
- Kabull
  
  The trouble is that, once again, scaremongers are ‘reporting’ on the basis of their computer modelling. None of these so-called ‘experts’ base their pronouncements on observational data. That is why this whole climate scam is so disingenuous.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:05am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  That NZ has experienced cycles of sea-level rise and fall is well known.
  This latest study is part of the extensive work on the W(h)anganui Basin carried out over the last 20+ years.
  
  The amplitude and origin of sea-level variability during the Pliocene epoch
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1619-z
  
  The key point in my mind is that no-one is implicating the raised CO2 level (400ppm – at 3 million years ago) as being the causative agent for the raised sealevel/ warming.
  
  It’s changes in the amount of sun’s energy reaching the Earth caused by periodic changes in Earth’s orbit that are the cause of the warming-cooling (sealevel rise -sealevel fall) cycles.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:25am
  - stephieboy
    
    MW, the best proof is experience including this panel of experts,
    
    The cost of climate change on our coasts, discussed by a panel of experts
    
    From Otago University panel discussions, 2:19 pm on 1 October 2019
    
    One of the biggest issues facing New Zealand is the cost of climate change, and our poor preparedness as a society to foot the bill for climate-induced hazards on the coast such as sea level rise and increasing storm surges. Much of our infrastructure and many communities are located in coastal areas. We need creative thinking about how we respond to a changing climate, because who will pay when we are forced to go?
    
    Highlights from this panel discussion recorded in association with the University of Otago:……”
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/otago-university-panel-discussions/story/2018715150/the-cost-of-climate-change-on-our-coasts-discussed-by-a-panel-of-experts
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:01am
    - Michael Rodent
      
      The threat of extreme rising sea levels in New Zealand is scaremongering.
      In the Waitemata Harbour, records over the last 100 years show that the sea level has risen by 13mm. With the average gradient of the foreshore this means that with a normal high tide the sea comes up about only an additional 50mm (2 inches) – hardly a catastrophic outcome over 100 years. From historical worldwide records it appears these slight increases in sea level are normal and many of the sea levels rises are caused by tectonic plate movement – nothing to do with climate.
      
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      October 3, 2019 4:59pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Please explain how a lefty outfit like Otago University puts together a panel of ‘experts’.
      
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      October 3, 2019 5:07pm
- pb
  
  Climate change agenda is a rehash of the communist manifesto. Doomsday forecasts are nothing new. The far-left media empire have brazenly taken up the cause in an attempt to prevent their own destruction. 50 years of forecasts, 50 years of egg-on-face failures. Yet still they persist. Surely we can define them as insane and lock them all up.
  
  https://www.breitbart.com/environment/2019/09/20/nolte-climate-experts-are-0-41-with-their-doomsday-predictions/
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:51am
- The King
  
  “the seas are rising”
  
  Does this mean we have to fight Stephieboy for higher ground?
  
  Sweet.
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:41am
- Bullion
  
  The rise of 20metres is over the many centuries as Co2 is a long lived gas and will continue to contribute to the warming of the planet for hundreds of years. It’s called committed sea level rise:
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-02985-8
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2XprA6A7I
  
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  October 3, 2019 2:58pm
- Raphael
  
  strange how they ignore the fact that while yes, the Western Ice-shelf is loosing mass (the chain of 20+ active volcanoes under it may be contributing somewhat), the Eastern Ice-shelf and the mainland are increasing their ice mass faster than the Western is loosing it.
  
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  October 3, 2019 4:27pm
srylands

Something I missed. A couple of weeks ago the government released a 30 year economic plan. It got almost no media coverage. Croaking Cassandra does an assessment. Do yourself a favour and spend 10 minutes on it.

It is just extraordinary that such important stuff gets no airtime.

https://croakingcassandra.com/2019/09/28/the-economic-plan-that-wasnt/
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October 3, 2019 9:00am
Odakyu-sen

Is the current round of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) reversable?
If it isn’t, then why are we bothering to try?
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October 3, 2019 9:07am
- srylands
  
  That’s a good question. The answer is “probably not”. Governments are not really doing anything. At least nothing that makes much difference. That has been the experience of the last 20 years.
  
  New Zealand can reduce its domestic emissions but not materially without taking a big hit in living standards.
  
  Let’s take motor vehicles. The type of motor vehicle driven is primarily a function of income. The average value of cars in the New Zealand fleet is about $6000. The only way to reduce emissions is to get people to drive fewer km or to force them to buy newer, more fuel efficient cars. The first path is difficult because the alternatives of public transport and cycling are inconvenient. But people could be coerced. The second path will only work if you increase incomes or again coerce folk by forcing them to buy a more expensive car. That means they have less money to spend on everything else. That is things they actually want to spend money on.
  
  Personally, I’d put a lot more effort on planning and adaptation.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:11am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘The only way to reduce emissions is to get people to drive fewer km or to force them to buy newer, more fuel efficient cars’
    
    Nah , Pol Pot had a plan . Turn everyone ( except the elite of course) into non property owning peasants….
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:55am
    - gravedodger
      
      Or corpses with slightly shop damaged heads, so discounted.
      
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      October 3, 2019 4:13pm
  - MCos
    
    There is an alternative – civic responsibility and good luck with that approach.
    For a start there are a certain number of people who are not convinced that global warming/climate change is a problem and then of those that are a good proportion don’t want to alter their ways.
    Related to that is pollution. Supermarkets know the damage plastic bags can do to the oceans and stuff that lives therein, but still insist on using the bloody things. I see bananas prepackaged in plastic bags even though the bloody things have their own natural wrapping.
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:14am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “Supermarkets know the damage plastic bags dumped in India and China can do to the oceans and stuff that lives therein…”
      
      There, fixed it for you.
      
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      October 3, 2019 12:11pm
JibberJabber

Tell it like it is, 4 more years.

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1179479312493400065
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October 3, 2019 9:07am
- MCos
  
  From what I understand if President Trump is impeached, as seems more likely by the day, and convicted, as also seems more than an outside chance, the Vice President goes does with him plus some others.
  I’ve heard next in line for the presidency in Speaker of the House.
  Surely not!
  That’ll give the republicans something to mull over.
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:23am
  - chaos
    
    You might want to learn what impeachment is and how it is done then you would realise there are not the votes to impeach him.
    
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    October 3, 2019 12:12pm
    - MCos
      
      Wrong
      
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      October 3, 2019 4:13pm
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, leave CNN where it belongs..in the litter bin.
    
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    October 3, 2019 2:52pm
    - MCos
      
      Don’t watch American TV
      I get all the news I need from Kiwiblog
      
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      October 3, 2019 4:16pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Impeachment is a personal process, if Nixon had actually gone on trial in the Senate and been convicted, Ford would have taken over as he did when Nixon resigned. Pence would have to be impeached separately – or at least jointly.
    
    I do think that this latest scripted attempt at a coup will fall flat despite the propaganda being distributed about it. It has been revealed that, contrary to the explicit requirements for IC “Whistleblowers” the WB in this case in the first case went to Congress before going to his superior and/or the IG. That most likely makes him a leaker and guilty of insider revelations and not able to claim WB protections – though that isn’t quite clear and the law in this area has not been tested. Further, Adam Schiff specifically denied having any contact with the leaker before the WB complaint was filed, and that has been revealed as a lie – not surprising given Schiff’s track record of complete dishonesty at a level surprising even for a politician. His staff have also tried to insist that State Department senior staff testify not under sub-poena and without legal representation – which appears to be illegal.
    
    It’s not actually in the constitution, but precedent in all previous impeachment cases (not just impeachment of the President) is that a full house vote is required to initiate the legal impeachment process that does add weight to the legal mechanisms that Congress can employ to obtain evidence. No such vote has been held so there’s no impeachment underway despite attempts to persuade the public otherwise.
    
    And on the evidence as has sofar been revealed, there would be no chance of a conviction in the Senate even if the Democrats could summon the votes for an actual impeachment.
    
    I’d have to say that I think it a mistake to attempt to impeach on the extremely flimsy grounds of the Ukraine call. The WB report on it is factually inaccurate (there’s no promise for a start, not even a hint of one) and if (as is legally required) the WB himself has signed an affidavit under oath as to the truthfulness of his accusations, then the WB is liable for prosecution for perjury. To make it worse for the Dems, the IG has admitted that he processed and flagged the complaint as “Urgent” without obtaining and reading the call transcript – which means that he acted on pure hearsay and made no serious attempt to verify that the hearsay was even passingly accurate. That does sound like a serious dereliction of his duty to verify to me.
    
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    October 3, 2019 4:55pm
Morrissey

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
GROPERS
No. 75: Romano-Lukas Hitler

A man who claims to be the last remaining relative of Adolf Hitler has been convicted of paedophilia after kissing a 13-year-old girl. ….

But now the 69-year-old Hitler has been convicted of a sex attack on a child, known only as Ania. Prosecutors took the case to court after a complaint by the girl’s father.

The angry dad said: “I had put a garage up for sale and Hitler answered the advert. But when he turned up he didn’t seem to have much interest in the garage, only in Ania. He lured her to his flat with sweets, brought her clothes and plastic flowers and even offered to marry her.”

The dad said when their daughter had told them he had kissed her, they banned her from seeing him and filed a complaint with the cops.

Hitler however defended himself, saying he simply enjoyed the company of the child and that when he kissed her it had simply been the usual sort of greeting that was normal in Germany and was harmless. He insisted: “I’m innocent”.

But that was rejected by Judge Ulrich Schettgen, 62, who found it proven that Hitler had “kissed” the girl “against her will on both the neck and cheek”.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hitlers-last-living-relative-convicted-19441891

https://allthatsinteresting.com/romano-lukas-hitler

“GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
1 George Herbert Walker Bush; …. 74 His Royal Heinous Prince Andrew.

https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/10/gropers-no-75-romano-lukas-hitler-oct-3.html
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October 3, 2019 9:18am
- mandk
  
  Morrissey, I can’t help feeling that you get a vicarious thrill from the actions of Herr Hitler and all the other people you gleefully tell us about.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:13am
  - The King
    
    Charles Manson had a jew as a fellow inmate who had a picture of Hitler in his cell he hated Hitler but he loved Hitler because Hitler was holding his hate up, without his Hate he didn’t exist.
    
    We see the same happening with Trump some people just need hatred to exist.
    
    Link to Manson clip..
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1vFzW4_RB8
    
    Take note of his reason for the killings in the beginning…. “pollution” Manson was unironically the first Greta.
    
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    October 3, 2019 11:59am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Daisycutter Sports Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Breen Enterprises Ltd., purveyors of fuckwittery to the world.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:15am
  - sooty
    
    Morrischancer untill you stick up all the perverts at Labour, you are just a chancer and in the same leaque as stephie!
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:26am
- Jack5
  
  Morrissey Breen, is George Herbert Walker Bush number one on your groper list because of an incident or incidents when he was in his 90s, a senile man in a nursing home?
  
  Surely not…
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:38am
- The King
  
  Yeah this guy isn’t related to Hitler.
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:44am
artemisia

Public submissions invited, have your say –

Review of use of Parliament TV coverage
Arms Legislation Bill
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October 3, 2019 9:19am
- chaos
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/make-a-submission/
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:46am
KevO'Brien

Good geo-poliitcal, historical analysis of the climate change activism:
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/02/understanding-the-climate-movement-part-2-noble-cause-corruption/
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October 3, 2019 9:35am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Climate Misinformation by Source: Anthony Watts
  
  Anthony Watts is an American TV weather presenter and runs the blog Watts Up With That. He founded surfacestations.org, which questions the reliability of the surface temperature record. Typically more than half of Watts’ live presentations feature photos of poorly sited weather stations.
  
  However, the surface temperature record is one line of evidence among thousands of lines of evidence for global warming. Ice sheets are melting, sea levels are rising, glaciers are retreating, thousands of species are migrating, seasons are shifting, local populations of species are going extinct. As for the temperature record, warming is also being observed over the ocean, well away from urban heat island and microsite influences.
  
  Lastly, satellite measurements independently find the same warming trend as the surface record, leading prominent skeptic Roy Spencer (head of the UAH satellite team) to conclude about the HadCRUT surface record, “Frankly our data set agrees with his, so unless we are all making the same mistake we’re not likely to find out anything new from the data anyway”.
  
  The full body of evidence presents a consistent and overwhelming picture of global warming. Anthony Watts’ critique of the surface temperature record is an attempt to distract from this larger picture,,,”
  
  https://skepticalscience.com/Anthony_Watts_blog.htm
  
  Game, set and match!
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Non-sense dear Stephie. Read for yourself–Anthony did not write a word of the article.
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:19am
  - The King
    
    This guys a blogger and didn’t even get a degree in uni, you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel.
    
    “Blogger sez climate change is real”
    
    “Stephie game,set,match”
    
    You’re the best argument against climate change, in fact you’re doing more damage to Gretas cause just by talking than any climate denier could.
    
    Keep it coming!
    
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    October 3, 2019 12:05pm
Maggie Pie

WTF??
[Remuera Public Library noticeboard]

DOG OWNERS:
Please stop saying “good boy” and “good girl” to your pets.
This kind of gendered language is normalizing the myth of canine sexual dimorphism,
and is likely to delegitimize the lived experience of trans dogs.
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October 3, 2019 9:38am
- chaos
  
  What about my slaves can I still call them good slave boys and good slave girls?
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:47am
- cmm
  
  Asking for a furry friend: If I’m such a Good Boy why did you chop my balls off?
  
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  October 3, 2019 9:56am
  - chaos
    
    Aww, admit it, you are the furry friend
    
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    October 3, 2019 10:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  My cat’s will be traumatised.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:21am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    There’s that bloody apostrophe again. Ye Gods Kev, just because there’s one in your name do you have to keep repeating it?
    
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    October 3, 2019 5:11pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Maggie, that’s got be a hoax, and quite a good one. Now hear the ‘woke’ dog owners trying to come up with the correct Newspeak, LOL.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:47am
- Lizziep
  
  Now that is really taking the piss.
  
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  October 3, 2019 1:38pm
- Jules99
  
  Hard to tell what’s satire these days. My dog won’t respond to ‘good boy’ because I’ve trained her to know her gender.
  
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  October 3, 2019 3:05pm
- Ehlana
  
  I notice that message is only for dog owners.
  
  The NOTICE FROM CATS would be:
  Your identity issues do not matter to your feline(s).
  FILL the dish. EMPTY the dirt box.
  Or suffer the claws…
  
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  October 3, 2019 3:20pm
All_on_Red

Looks like Bernie Sanders’ Heart is no longer in it- literally.
That’s probably him done then.
Elizabeth Warren smiles.
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October 3, 2019 9:41am
- cmm
  
  It was never going to be Bernie.
  
  Dem. identity politics doesn’t work running a white guy against a white guy. The Great Unwashed need a much more obvious difference.
  
  12 0
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  October 3, 2019 9:55am
  - pb
    
    Run Hillary Run.
    
    11 0
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    October 3, 2019 10:43am
- Paulus
  
  Warren is still smiling as Biden gets chopped up.
  What the Democrat feminist hierarchy want another women to get the Presidency (she won’t anyway).
  
  5 0
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  October 3, 2019 1:40pm
Andrei

Vladimir Putin on Greta Thunberg

“I may disappoint you but I don’t share the common excitement about the speech by Greta Thunberg,”

“No one has explained to Greta that the modern world is complex and different and … people in Africa or in many Asian countries want to live at the same wealth level as in Sweden,”

Of course, emotions are inevitable, but still if we want to be effective, we must stay professional.

While young environmentalists should be supported, “when someone is using children and teenagers in personal interests, it only deserves to be condemned.

Establishment & media sympathize with Greta’s ‘Fridays for Future’ movement… So how is that a ‘protest’ exactly?

“I’m sure that Greta is a kind and very sincere girl,”

“But adults must do everything not to bring teenagers and children into some extreme situations.”
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October 3, 2019 9:48am
- Andrei
  
  Video with subtitles
  https://youtu.be/sonhmlYRNM8
  
  9 0
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  October 3, 2019 10:02am
  - Jack5
    
    Not a big reception for Greta in China, either, if the talk on the Net is an example. A sample on Weibo:
    
    “She is a poor girl kidnapped by the thought of white leftists and she herself doesn’t know that.”
    
    20 0
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    October 3, 2019 11:35am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  As if a political thug like Putin has anything to contribute to the debate about Greta Thurnberg!
  
  1 35
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  October 3, 2019 10:25am
- Martin Williams
  
  But adults must do everything not to bring teenagers and children into some extreme situations.
  
  Is Vlad about to off Greta with some spare Novichok?
  
  2 29
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  October 3, 2019 10:43am
- kowtow
  
  ‘people in Africa or in many Asian countries want to live at the same wealth level as in Sweden,’
  
  That’s why they’re all moving there.
  
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  October 3, 2019 10:57am
- krazykiwi
  
  Not a Putin fan, but I have to say I agreed with every word he said there.
  
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  October 3, 2019 11:42am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Nobody’s Victim: Fighting Psychos, Stalkers, Pervs, and Trolls

by Carrie Goldberg

4.27 · Rating details · 244 ratings · 52 reviews

Nobody’s Victim is an unflinching look at a hidden world most people don’t know exists—one of stalking, blackmail, and sexual violence, online and off—and the incredible story of how one lawyer, determined to fight back, turned her own hell into a revolution.

“We are all a moment away from having our life overtaken by somebody hell-bent on our destruction.” That grim reality—gleaned from personal experience and twenty years of trauma work —is a fundamental principle of Carrie Goldberg’s cutting-edge victims’ rights law firm.

Riveting and an essential timely conversation-starter, Nobody’s Victim invites readers to join Carrie on the front lines of the war against sexual violence and privacy violations as she fights for revenge porn and sextortion laws, uncovers major Title IX violations, and sues the hell out of tech companies, schools, and powerful sexual predators. Her battleground is the courtroom; her crusade is to transform clients from victims into warriors….”

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43183922

Love to be able to hire someone like Carrie Goldberg to ferret out those stalkers etc who appear to habituate blogs like Kwiblog!
1 39
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October 3, 2019 10:26am
- chaos
  
  Mod please consider the last paragraph in stephies post is only to troll and cause problems, should be deleted
  
  19 0
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  October 3, 2019 12:08pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    stephie faces the same dilemma here every day 🙂
    
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoLZXN5XUAA-tEd.jpg
    
    14 1
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    October 3, 2019 12:28pm
- Swifty
  
  That’s easy.
  
  Start your hunt on Dominion Road, around Tai Ping, failing that head off to St Lukes.
  
  10 0
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  October 3, 2019 12:13pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Is “Tai Ping” a euphemism for an Asian brothel? 🙂
    
    1 0
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    October 3, 2019 7:40pm
- pentwig
  
  “stephieboy
  Nobody’s Victim: Fighting Psychos, Stalkers, Pervs, and Trolls
  
  by Carrie Goldberg”
  I can really understand why the title grabbed you steffie. The key words would have attracted you like flies to poo. I trust your reading has educated you and we will see an improvement.
  
  10 1
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  October 3, 2019 12:22pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Stephieboy:
  
  Psychos, Stalkers, Pervs, and Trolls
  
  That’s an interesting topic for you to raise for discussion. You tick the “stalker” “perv” and “troll” boxes. Remember the time you linked to a photoshopped porn image here at Kiwiblog? But why are you raising this topic? Are you telling us you’re a “psycho” too?
  
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  October 3, 2019 3:52pm
igm

What a political farce this is . . . these poor buggers should be left to rest in peace, not be used as pawns by unscrupulous leeches such as Peters, Little, et al. Shows how low this CoL can stoop.
12 2
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October 3, 2019 10:55am
chaos

If it was a health reason you could understand resigning as president, but not quitting the party

*NZ First president Lester Gray quits role – and leaves the party altogether

The president of New Zealand First has quit after just a year in the job – and the long-time member says he is walking away from the party altogether.

But it remains unclear why Lester Gray has decided to leave, after being elected at the party’s annual meeting this time last year.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12273218
15 0
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October 3, 2019 11:21am
- sooty
  
  He’s got the same compliant as Whinestone!
  An old rugby injury!
  
  2 0
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  October 3, 2019 5:06pm
JibberJabber

https://www.oliviapierson.org/blog/jacinda-ardern-the-womans-weekly-prime-minister
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October 3, 2019 11:34am
Jack5

Japan’s Greater Prosperity rugby team …

In a South China Morning Post report about the Japanese rugby team’s victory over Ireland:

“I have always been a rugby fan since my high school won the national rugby championships,” said Hiromichi Moteki, the acting secretary general of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact.

“The team is amazing,” he said. “The result against Ireland was nothing short of miraculous, but I put the victory down to the players being well trained and made up of many leaders.

“I wish there were more Japan-born players on the team, but it’s OK because they all feel that they are Japanese,” said Moteki, who lives in Tokyo.
“It’s like it was during the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, when Koreans and others volunteered to serve in the Japanese military.”

The Japanese team includes naturalised Tongans, Samoans, New Zealanders, Australians and South Africans, the newspaper reports.
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October 3, 2019 11:49am
Maggie Pie

My partner reckons its not surprising that accused Mosque shooter Brenton Tarrant’s lawyers would abandon their move to have his trial relocated out of Christchurch.

As my partner said, “What other city in New Zealand would they be likely to find such a sympathetic jury?”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12273190
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October 3, 2019 12:04pm
- The King
  
  “However, last month Justice Mander ruled the trial date be changed to June 2 due to the clashes with the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.”
  
  So much irony to unpack in that sentence.
  
  The western ‘justice’ system…. just not in the holy month of Ramadan.
  
  Clown world.
  
  20 2
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  October 3, 2019 12:49pm
  - godruelf
    
    Couldn’t have the witnesses and public gallery getting Hangry.
    
    3 1
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    October 3, 2019 12:59pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ramadan is not holy for the NZ legal system.
    
    4 1
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    October 3, 2019 3:42pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  I can’t imagine any jury in NZ not finding him guilty. Should take them about 10 minutes – just see the videos. Why are we even discussing this?
  
  3 0
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  October 3, 2019 1:04pm
  - chaos
    
    it Depends, he may convert while In prison to the Labour Party, that is an automatic get off free card and you even win a trip to London.
    
    4 0
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    October 3, 2019 3:30pm
MrTips

Having a PhD is no guarantee of common sense (I am living proof of that).
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/10/prehistoric-data-shows-climate-change-could-cause-20m-sea-level-rise.html

“It’s a new and quite unique record of sea-level change around three million years ago, which was the last time we had 400 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.”

So we’ve had 400ppm CO2 before? Even before we had the iron and bronze age?

According to the data the ice sheets are capable of widespread melting and raising the sea level up to 20 metres under current atmospheric carbon dioxide levels.

So the sea has risen before? Without our help?

So why do we need to pay attention to Paris Accord?

Words fail me……
11 2
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October 3, 2019 1:29pm
- Andrei
  
  What is disengenuous about that is the changes that could and probably eventually will occur will take place over geological time scales rather on human historical time scales.
  
  I got the impression watching that that the woman reporting her results is fully aware of that but is being careful not to rock the boat
  
  5 1
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  October 3, 2019 2:50pm
  - Kabull
    
    What these people refuse to acknowledge is that sea level has changed constantly for many reasons. Think the land bridge between Indonesia and Australia, or across the North Sea. It is all part of the natural to-ing and fro-ing of nature, and nothing to do with ‘the climate’. Tens of thousands of years ago New Zealand, as part of Gondwanaland, was tropical. Indeed, how did the coal in the Antarctic get there?
    
    3 2
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    October 3, 2019 4:56pm
    - Psycho Milt
      
      Who are “these people” who refuse to acknowledge that sea level changes over time? They certainly don’t include Georgia Grant.
      
      3 2
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      October 3, 2019 6:21pm
- Psycho Milt
  
  So we’ve had 400ppm CO2 before? Even before we had the iron and bronze age?
  
  Er, yes. More than once. Human activity isn’t the only thing that can change the amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.
  
  So the sea has risen before? Without our help?
  
  Yep – natural consequence of higher amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, aka “what all the fuss is about.”
  
  So why do we need to pay attention to Paris Accord?
  
  Because timescales matter. If natural processes like those that raised sea levels previously were increasing the amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the sea level would rise on a time scale of thousands of years and we could say “Meh.” Instead, we’re increasing the amounts over a timescale of decades and the effects on sea levels will be similarly rapid. We could afford not to give a shit about what the sea level will be 5,000 years from now, but can’t afford to not give a shit about what it will be 100 years from now.
  
  2 9
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  October 3, 2019 3:54pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There is circular reasoning going on here…
    
    The cyclic rise and fall of sealevels as recorded in the W(h)anganui Basin result from changes in Earth’s orbit around the Sun.
    
    They aren’t caused by rises and falls in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.
    
    All the Geological evidence we have to date indicates that CO2 increases in the atmosphere follow Temperature rises.
    
    5 1
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    October 3, 2019 6:51pm
chaos

Dreaming, you aren’t going to see lower power prices from this

* Electricity reforms will ‘take pressure off monthly power bill’, Government promises*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116261780/electricity-reforms-will-take-pressure-off-monthly-power-bill-government-promises
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October 3, 2019 1:45pm
- Wired-one
  
  Penalizing people who are responsible and efficient. Labour are incompetent, idiotic twats. Good to see the majority of comments are against this, its stupidity.
  
  11 0
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  October 3, 2019 2:55pm
- cmm
  
  Please Doctor/Mzzz Woods don’t try to help.
  
  Just take your $300k+ salary and go on holiday or something. Everything you touch turns to shit. Just leave us alone. We have suffered enough.
  
  13 0
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  October 3, 2019 4:43pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Most of our house runs on gas. Sounds like three pies wants to let us freeze and starve to death.
  
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  October 3, 2019 5:15pm
chaos

* A Christchurch councillor under investigation for “grossly inappropriate messages” has released text and Facebook messages from three of the complainants. *

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116287947/christchurch-councillor-dion-swiggs-faces-full-investigation-over-conduct
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October 3, 2019 1:49pm
- cmm
  
  “Swiggs said he was disappointed “. He also blames it on smearing at voting time.
  
  Poor bloke just a terrible victim in all this.
  
  8 0
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  October 3, 2019 4:37pm
  - Swifty
    
    He should be gifted his councillor seat because of all he’s been through…..
    
    5 0
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    October 3, 2019 4:41pm
  - sooty
    
    Just as well he’s Labour party connected or he would be feeling lonely about now!
    
    5 0
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    October 3, 2019 5:01pm
    - chaos
      
      There is only one party that would be trying to smear someone in a local election, labour.
      
      0 0
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      October 3, 2019 9:21pm
Maggie Pie

I’ve just wasted about 20 minutes sat here playing my ‘New World Scratch & Score’ cards.
Over the last couple of weeks i’d gathered enough for 33 plays. Not a bloody diky bird – not even 5 measly bucks 🙁

Starting to think its a bloody big con!!
9 0
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October 3, 2019 2:08pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Maggie,
  Take up Sudoku. Your blood pressure won’t go up as much as with scratch-and-sniff-for-a-win.
  
  8 0
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  October 3, 2019 2:44pm
- cmm
  
  Maggie I will only say this once, because I don’t want to seem rude.
  
  Scratchies and Lotto are a tax on people who can’t do maths.
  
  Even the “free” ones.
  
  7 0
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  October 3, 2019 4:39pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Look at it as a voluntary donation to a variety of causes that are funded through the Lotto grants system.
    
    7 0
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    October 3, 2019 4:59pm
Andrei

I was suddenly reminded of this for some strange reason.

Was it something that happened at the UN this week?
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October 3, 2019 2:16pm
Nostradamus

I have a question for IT experts regarding this article:

One email was all it took for hackers to steal some of the most personal information from people potentially now in high-ranking roles across the globe. The cyber attack was so sophisticated it didn’t even need the person to click on a link or open a document to compromise decades worth of private information. The email was sent to a senior staff member at the Australian National University (ANU) in November last year. A person working closely with that staff member previewed the email before deleting it — but it was too late. Merely previewing the email was enough for hackers to steal a username and password that opened the first door into the ANU network.

I think most people understand that you don’t open email attachments from unknown senders or that otherwise appear to be suspicious.

But this is the first time I’ve seen a case where, apparently, merely previewing an email is enough. Does this apply in Microsoft Outlook and online email accounts like, say, Hotmail or Gmail?
6 0
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October 3, 2019 4:15pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  There is/was at least one security flaw in Outlook’s message preview that can compromise your password.
  
  https://thehackernews.com/2018/04/outlook-smb-vulnerability.html
  
  I take it that the ANU hadn’t been diligent in applying security patches. I’d be surprised if there weren’t more security holes in message preview, it’s a risky feature.
  
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  October 3, 2019 8:00pm
Maggie Pie

Here’s another little tip i just realised was worth sharing with the group …

Never look at your shadow while eating a banana.
7 0
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October 3, 2019 4:23pm
cmm

Stuff asks if we feel enough flight shame.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/116301315/feeling-flight-shame-try-quitting-air-travel-and-catch-a-sail-boat

I wonder if my comment musing as to James Shaw setting a benchmark will make it through.
9 1
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October 3, 2019 4:34pm
Swifty

‘Rehan said Dr Preet was simply a nickname to avoid confusion over the pronunciation of his name, but he was free to use the title as it had been awarded to him in India.

“Why is it a problem?” he asked Stuff.

He dismissed claims clients could be misled to believe he was operating a medical practice as his signage stated he was a homeopathic consultant, and was happy to clear any confusion if asked by clients.’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/116272899/homeopath-can-use-doctor-title-despite-not-being-a-medical-practitioner

If he genuinely does not know why this is a problem then he is unfit, ethically, to have up any sort of shingle.

But of course he knows……..that’s why he’s using it.
8 1
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October 3, 2019 4:40pm
MH

stumbling out of my copper bed this morn, I thawt about global warming and came up with this idea perhaps mooted before ? Watt say we gather up all the old refrigerators and take the ones from the sthn hemisphere and assemble them in Antarctica-esp deep freezers and the odd ski resort snow maker. The nthn people can fg to the Nth Pole. OK the ozone might suffer a bit and to pay for them they will all have carbon credit slots,and watt about a whole heap of mirrors to reflect back the suns rays, I don’t know why I haven’t thawed about this earlier-there will be those doom merchants who will poo poo this, but that is probably because they are greyish white, A-gender biased and over aged.
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October 3, 2019 4:58pm
greybeard

Where the hell is the National Party these days?

We have this so-called “govt” proposing controls on power prices to make things “fairer”, proposing the “buy-back” of older motor vehicles to solve some supposed problem with fuel efficiency, but not a word from National.

Do they want us to slide into a communist state ?

David Seymour is doing a better job of being opposition leader than any National MP.

Come on National, WAKE UP !
11 0
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October 3, 2019 5:01pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  https://www.national.org.nz/speech_to_canterbury_chamber_of_commerce
  Web site is updated almost daily.
  
  4 0
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  October 3, 2019 6:22pm
- chaos
  
  Follow their social media, national never stop talking, if you don’t hear their messages blame the media
  
  4 0
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  October 3, 2019 7:00pm
chaos

The truth is coming out

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116292442/nz-first-president-resigns-after-refusing-to-sign-2019-financial-reports-for-moral-reasons

* In Gray’s resignation letter, obtained by Stuff, he raises issues around communication with senior party officials and uncertainty over financial dealings.

“I refuse to sign off the 2019 Financial Reports with the information I have been provided,” he wrote.

“As President, the limited exposure I have had to Party donations and expenditure leaves me in a vulnerable position.

“This type of operation does not align with my moral and business practice values, and I am therefore not able to support the Party any longer.”

Gray also stated there was “insufficient communication and support from senior members of the Party for me to effectively function as the President”.*
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October 3, 2019 5:36pm
Odakyu-sen

Who doesn’t like steam locomotives!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPIxMAATAeU

There is something unique about the tone of the whistle of the old SL class of engine at 3:12
9 0
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October 3, 2019 6:06pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Hush your mouth…you…you…YOU….
  Global warming enabler you.
  
  7 0
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  October 3, 2019 6:20pm
RW Capitalist

“a gently sloping 5-degree tunnel 2.3 km (1.4 mi) long.”
The description of the Pike river mine drift.
2.3 Km
They have, so far gone 170m into the drift, in 2 years.
80m per year…lets be nice and make it 100m per year.
So
2300m- 170 m =2130mat 100m per year
only 21,3 years to go before we reach the mine.
Then double it for the search for the bodies.
so 43 years till we get answers.
1. How many relatives will still be alive?
2. Considering, they are riding roughshod over health and safety laws to do it, how many “rescuers” will die or be injured doing it?
3. How many of their relatives will demand a recovery?
4. is this the genuine “Never ending story”?
12 0
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October 3, 2019 6:18pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Labour is enabling this bullshit, so it must be a good thing.
  
  5 0
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  October 3, 2019 9:05pm
Hugh Pavletich

… AUSTRALIA …

Australia’s high-rise apartment crash turns apocalyptic … Leith van Onselen … MacroBusiness Australia
… behind paywall …

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/10/australias-high-rise-apartment-crash-turns-apocalyptic/

Display graph …
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Capture-7.png

On Tuesday, the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) released its dwelling approvals data for August, which revealed that dwelling approvals nationally have crashed by 33% in trend terms from the March 2015 peak, driven by a mammoth 51% decline in unit and apartment approvals:

Today, I want to focus on the high-rise apartment segment, which is driving the bust and is also the subject of deep concerns around quality.

The next chart shows the picture at the national level in annual terms, which shows that high-rise apartment approvals have crashed by 50% since peaking in October 2015: … read more via hyperlink above …
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October 3, 2019 6:42pm
- fernglas
  
  So, Hugh. Do I buy that apartment in Auckland as my primary retirement residence, or not?
  
  5 1
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  October 3, 2019 7:08pm
chaos

* Busted for plagiarism: Labour Party forced to pull information booklet

The Labour Party has been forced to pull an information booklet after being busted for plagiarism.

Newshub can reveal the party’s guide to services for over 60 year olds contains at least 50 apparent breaches of copyright, all authorised by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.

If you put Labour’s guide for over 60s into an online plagiarism checker, 56 apparent breaches of copyright show up, with examples from 19 different sources, some government and some not.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/busted-for-plagiarism-labour-forced-to-pull-information-booklet.html
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October 3, 2019 7:32pm
- fernglas
  
  If you put Jacinda into a plagiarism checker, you’d get more hits than that
  
  7 0
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  October 3, 2019 7:53pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Gracious….and how many Comms people does Labour employ?
  
  10 0
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  October 3, 2019 8:02pm
chaos

This is great news. I watched a seizure a few months ago, it was actually, not having seen one before, the scariest thing I had seen

* There’s hope a new cannabis gel, could revolutionise treatment for children with severe epilepsy.

The gel’s in an early trial phase, but already results show it can reduce the amount of seizures a patient has by 58 percent in the first six months.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/10/new-cannabis-gel-hailed-as-a-game-changer-for-children-with-severe-epilepsy.html
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October 3, 2019 7:47pm
record guy

Colin Craig to continue confirming he’s a piece of shit with his appeal V Ms Mcgregor

This guy is vexatious and should be banned from the courts
12 0
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October 3, 2019 8:34pm
calendar girl

Comms people? Comms people? Why would Labour need any more comms people when it already has Jacinda Ardern – a graduate in that very discipline from Waikato University?
3 0
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October 3, 2019 9:19pm
record guy

https://www.change.org/p/high-court-declare-colin-craig-a-vexatious-litigant-ban-him-from-the-courts?recruiter=73338113&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition&recruited_by_id=4d7cd870-
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October 3, 2019 9:30pm

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