General Debate 17 October 2019

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Prince

Peters finds a judge is not there to run protection for him, unlike the Speaker in Parliament.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116644548/judge-to-peters-answer-the-questions
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October 17, 2019 8:00am
- peterwn
  
  I think there is a good chance Winston will throw the towel in before the trial. Tim Murphy was one of those Winston took to court at the beginning and must have really enjoyed writing the item for ‘Newsroom’.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:17am
- Tall Man
  
  Good, he’s a lying POS.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:20am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Without wishing to defend Peters in particular, this is an odd article. And, in fact, the article makes it clear that this was a routine judgement about questions Peters needed to answer, with the judge agreeing in many of the instances quoted that Peters did not need to answer the specific questions.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:21am
  - sooty
    
    Odd writer!
    
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    October 17, 2019 8:33am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You must have missed the first two paragraphs them mikenmild:
    
    Court documents have confirmed New Zealand First leader Winston Peters was sent a letter by officials four years into his seven-year overpayment of national superannuation asking him to check details he had supplied, including that he was ‘single’.
    
    He continued to receive the higher rate of superannuation for ‘single, shared accommodation’ rather than his actual ‘de facto relationship’ for three further years.
    
    So he was made aware that he was receiving the wrong benefit payment three years before he actually got around to sorting it out. Yet he is a lawyer, an experienced politician and a very high-profile New Zealander. Did the alarm bells not go off, or did he make a conscious decision to keep on receiving money to which he wasn’t entitled?
    
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    October 17, 2019 8:33am
    - alex Masterley
      
      TS,
      If Winston Peters held a practicing certificate he would be a lawyer.
      He doesn’t so he is not.
      
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      October 17, 2019 8:40am
      - peterwn
        
        This is splitting hairs. He practiced law for four years so he would have understood the legal implications of welfare payments better than the average Kiwi. He could probably re-gain his law practicing certificate if he chose just as former MP Dr Hutchinson re-gained his medical practicing certificate when he retired from Parliament.
        
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        October 17, 2019 11:59am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      That’s completely irrelevant to my point. The article is headlined ‘Judge to Peters: Answer the questions’, but the judge ruled he wasn’t required to answer a number of the questions.
      When I wrote in my first sentence that I wasn’t defending Peters, did you not uderstnad what that meant?
      
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      October 17, 2019 8:44am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Fair comment. However he’s been asked to provide more answers to questions he has thus far declined to answer than questions he has been exempted from asking.
        
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        October 17, 2019 8:52am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Thanks for the acknowledgement. That’s the only pointI was making.
        
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        October 17, 2019 8:59am
      - Tall Man
        
        Would you be happier if it was titled “Answer Some Questions”.
        
        You strive to be seen as an idiot.
        
        Well done… job done.
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:55am
    - sooty
      
      It’s not as though he was going to make his fortune on the pension going from single to defacto. A difference of a few dollars only.
      A mere drop in the ocean compared to other souruces of income!
      
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      October 17, 2019 8:47am
      - rockape
        
        Well $18000 it seems, enough to buy a better brand of scotch!
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:43am
      - lifesgood
        
        I believe his partner is very wealthy. So, why?
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:43am
      - Lizziep
        
        $18,000 worth though.
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:53am
      - Tall Man
        
        And yet he wanted it!
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:55am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        Sooty it is a drop in the ocean to him, but for a single pensioner it could mean a substantial difference.
        To accumulate $18,000 is a long time accumulating money you are not entitled to.
        The amount is not the matter here, it is being seen to be fudging the system that matters.
        I get a part NZ pension, It is clear that my marital status are a big factor in what I receive, if it changes either way they indeed want to know and I am made aware of this in no uncertain terms.
        You may forget to tell them once, impossible over months and years.
        Looking like he has fudged the system for, as you say, very little money in his big picture.
        Embarrassing silly mistake for tiny return.
        Then he just keeps it bubbling away for years in the public view.
        He maybe a smart person, but is obvious he totally bitter and twisted towards National. This will all end up where it should, the judge appears what no one else appears to have in NZ, the ability to make him comply. keeping ones mouth shut can be good at times of making matters worse.
        
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        October 17, 2019 10:27am
      - sooty
        
        I agree with you about a single pensioner. But we are talking about Whinestone and his multiple income streams and the pension is a mere drop in the ocean!
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:22pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @MOD Sorry, accidentally clicked on report Sooty, instead of reply.
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:51pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Sooty
        
        Money stolen or appropriated is sometimes more sweet than money earned. It is not only needy people that shoplift, often rich people do it as well, because they can.
        
        There may be an element of “I deserve it” in it as well.
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:54pm
      - Piniwi
        
        Sorry Greg Ettridge @ 10.27 am but hit report by mistake.
        
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        October 17, 2019 2:53pm
    - niggly
      
      TS – Which raises an interesting question, now we know this “wrong payment” had been going on for years, could it be that a bureaucrat, disgusted by Winston’s inaction to resolve the issue over a number of years, finally thought “enough of this “corruption”” and leaked the overpayment details?
      
      Who knows, but like you said before why would National leak it just prior to their conference (as this story would drown any National conference “good news” out), although I still favor the Winston himself theory, as it gave him immeasurable airtime in amongst the media generated tsunami called “jacindamania” which downed all other political news out!
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:00am
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m with you… an own goal.
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:56am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Was Peters not subject to WINZs computer’s annual review? A written declaration is required annually or the payments all cease.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:12am
      - peterwn
        
        AFAIK an over 65 claiming a ‘single’ benefit is asked for an annual written declaration to that effect. This is not required of someone claiming a ‘married’ or ‘cohabiting’ benefit, since they are on the minimum benefit.
        Seems this could be significant in this case. If the excuse for wrongly accepting the overpayments appears to be more sinister than a mere accident, then the CEO would not be restrained from reporting the issue under the ‘no surprises’ policy.
        Also the present Government is not going to want the ‘no surprises’ policy undermined by the courts. It is far too useful. For example Helen Clark used it against National in 2002.
        
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        October 17, 2019 1:41pm
      - Piniwi
        
        Right KevO’Brien it is firstly a proof of life as well as confirming along with any changes in your personal circumstances ending with the stamp and signature of a notarial public. Returned by snail mail by the due date or the pension will stop. It does raise the question why if as he claims to never have seen such letters his pension continued for 7 long years? Apart from ignoring this more significant letter from the court after 4 years.
        
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        October 17, 2019 2:50pm
      - Rob2
        
        Never had one. So that’s just not true.
        
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        October 17, 2019 8:25pm
    - Jules99
      
      Slightly off topic, but I’ve always thought it a bit odd that your super payment varies depending on whether or not you are having sex with the person who shares your home. Surely in this day and age every person should be getting the same no matter who they are living with.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:37am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The payment rates differ if you have a supported spouse and her eligibility for super in her own right.
        
        I have been on super for years and my wife is also paid it although not qualifying by age. She has a gold card too by virtue of our marriage.
        
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        October 17, 2019 11:44am
      - peterwn
        
        Cohabiting is sufficient. See WINZ form R32. So if a senior is living with a flatmate the senior by implication can claim the ‘lower’ rate only. If a single senior is living with a under 18 person or one who is a high school or tertiary student (limitations?) the senior can claim the ‘higher’ rate.
        I looked for the annual form but could not find it as such. It would be a R32 form or a very similar one.
        
        It could be questioned why cohabiting people get less in aggregate but that is the law and WINZ staff, Winston and other supernatants have to comply with it.
        
        The MP who had to resign over a dud passport had no choice whether he had confessed or awaited the detectives in Hallenstein suits (despite it being a youthful prank and that the dud passport was never used). Hard to see why Winston’s case is any different.
        
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        October 17, 2019 4:10pm
    - MrsAnnie
      
      Winston is very entitled- I think that is the issue.
      
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      October 17, 2019 10:00am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    the reporter is obviously trying to point out what a dodgy mendacious wanker Winston appears to be in this instance (ie as usual), but without writing anything actionable.
    
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    October 17, 2019 8:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Annual reviews initiated by WINZ apply when payments other than the basic super is involved. A spousal extension would trigger such a review.
      
      The reviews come automatically via WINZ computer system.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:34am
  - Nookin
    
    And, in fact, the article makes it clear that this was a routine judgement …
    
    I am not sure whether it would be described as a routine judgment. While interrogatories are relatively commonplace, it is another step to have to go to court and get a court to direct someone to answer questions rather than obfuscate. The last similar instance of any infamy involved Cameron Slater.
    The significance of this particular judgment is the direction to answer questions about the accuracy of the information provided by Peters particularly in the light of a letter directing him to verify the accuracy of earlier statements.
    
    Rather than delivering a routine decision, the judge was telling Peters that it was crunch time and he had to front up.
    I concede that it would be routine for somebody objecting to answer questions to apply for an order that some of the questions are oppressive (such as the question about application of the no surprises rule going back to 1990). Obviously, the Crown was intent on exploring every nook and cranny and it was probably inevitable that some of the questions would be rejected by the judge. The critical ones, however, go directly to Peters’ veracity.
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:09am
    - Tall Man
      
      “go directly to Peters’ veracity.”
      
      Or lack of….
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:58am
- Happychappy
  
  And the same Winston Peter’s is calling on Farming Leaders to stop being mischevious and deceitful over the fresh water reforms and where were they when Fontera nearly went belly up. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-country/audio/winston-peters-criticises-mischievous-deceitful-farming-leaders/
  That’s the pot calling the kettle black.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:22am
  - LTA1955
    
    NZ farmers are going to have to get out on the streets like this:
    https://www.infowars.com/dutch-farmers-stage-new-revolt-against-climate-change-restrictions/
    If they don’t – big trouble for NZ. Us Urbanites need to help them in anyway we can. A bit of bad weather now and then is nothing compared to having your standard of living drop by 50%.
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:39am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Kudos to Justice Venning, for drawing a line in the sand and not tolerating Peters’ obfuscation and outright bullshit.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:27am
- graham
  
  Reading the article, it sounds almost like Winston was trying to treat the lawyers and the judge like he treats the media – only to find it doesn’t work.
  
  Memo to Winston: While we all enjoy OCCASIONALLY seeing the media taken down off their high-horses and reminded that they are not quite as special as they think they are, seeing you treat the media with utter contempt day after day, month after month, year after year, is getting a bit tiresome.
  
  Especially when you are in Government, and the media do actually have a job to do and that job includes letting us, the public, know whether YOU, Winston, are actually doing YOUR job.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:31am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Perhaps Winston feels it might hurt less if he was to shoot himself in the other foot?
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:41am
- Yvette
  
  One of the key issues for the full hearing, due to start on November 4, will be Peters’ questioning of the use in his case of the ‘no surprises’ policy under which successive governments have required public servants to advise ministers of issues which could become of public interest. [1]
  
  It then emerged that before telling Tolley, Boyle had consulted State Services Commissioner Peter Hughes, who in turn consulted Solicitor General Una Jagose, before Tolley and State Services Minister Paula Bennett were told.
  
  “I do not think these people should be allowed to get away with it and I do not intend to stop until I get justice on this matter – Winston Peters [2]
  
  Does the fact then that Ministers Tolley and Bennett were told, indicate Hughes and Boyle acted with the positive advice of Solicitor General Una Jagose, or not?
  
  “What you’ve got here is a disgusting little cartel playing filthy politics and at the highest level of our civil service.” – Winston Peters [2]
  
  To just whom does Winston refer?
  
  [1] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116644548/judge-to-peters-answer-the-questions
  [2] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11914930
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:22am
- Hacked-Off
  
  Thanks for the article Prince as this informs me exactly of what the case is all about. To my non-legal mind this is not a case of mistaken incorrect payment (which I had assumed was a Department error) and more a case of benefit fraud as Peters misrepresented – deliberately so if the Ministry asked for him the clarify it and he failed to correct the record – his domestic circumstances, and only came to light, not of his own volition as he claimed, but when his ‘partner’ applied to gain her own pension. Therefore, Peters only changed his status when this was found it. This would then make the matter a case for which legal sanction which should be taken against Peters. Should we ask the question of the Department why they did not proceed against Peters.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:38am
  - namron
    
    If you listen to Winston on Parliamentary Question Time [ 31 on your TV at 2pm Tues, Wed and Thurs] like today, he is an expert at yelling, obfuscating and rubbishing EVERYONE else
    I have come to the conclusion –
    1] Winston knows “everything.”
    2] He has never ever made a mistake.
    3] Everyone else is a moron – especially if they disagree with him.
    4] Everything he has ever said is “world-shatteringly” true, unquestionable AND more significant AND more important than any other considered comment made by anyone else – EVER, [particularly by Nat MPs.]
    5. You’re an idiot if you don’t believe every word Winston ever utters.
    6. His knowledge, ideas, notions and proposals are superior to any WE MIGHT HAVE, regardless of our background, education, life experience etc.
    7] At the age of 74, Winston’s life experience and his MANY years in Parliament have made him someone we should ALL automatically listen to and subsequently submit to and follow! NEVER!!
    [Tough, Winston! I’m 67so had 1 more year on Earth than you, so perhaps you should listen to me!!
    Also at your age of 74, there are quite a number of factors which make what you say VERY questionable!!
    Watching Question Time today – [as he props himself up on his left elbow,] he feels he has to interrupt QT 8 times. His speech is slurred and barely intelligible, but there is no shortage of volume – and it even appears that the Speaker is stretched and so allows his ineffectual and barely intelligible interruptions.
    Are there any of you who find Question Time a biased, prejudiced hour with some very unfair decisions made by Mallard which always favour the Govt.
    I keep trying to consider what “democracy” means and wonder if what I am seeing on QT is an
    impartial and unbiased presentation of democracy!
    So perhaps some of you could watch channel 31 on Tues 22 Oct at 2pm [the next Question Time with the people we have elected, and see how govt works and how we are being governed and what our taxes are paying for.
    
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    October 17, 2019 6:03pm
DILLIGAF

So, how’s that impeachment looking?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emvofNUmM5A

TL;DR the Dems aren’t going to vote on Impeachment Authorization…
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October 17, 2019 8:01am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Course they aren’t. Its Kabuki theatre, and Trump is better at it than they are.
  
  He has just lured them into a Kill zone, and is closing off the exits.
  
  Ukraine is funny as hell.
  
  How did Biden and Kerry’s sons get to be appointed to Boards in one of the most corrupt countries on earth?
  
  And how is it, all these years later, that Trump has finally made the media talk about it – even if it is to “refute” or “debunk” two new words in the lexicon that no longer mean what we thought they meant ™
  
  Bwuhahahaha!
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:13am
- Scott
  
  Dilligaf – no it seems the democrats are happy to keep the controversy going against Pres Trump without worrying about such formalities as an actual vote. The speaker of the House has taken it upon herself to have an inquiry to oust the duly elected Pres one year before an election! In the meantime the Congress will get nothing done.
  
  And they can only do this through their enablers in the media. Witness CNN hosting the democrat presidential primary debate. They start with swamp creature Joe Biden and ask him about the obviously false allegations against his son Hunter and the Ukraine and China. Biden stumbles through an answer and CNN declares that’s right Joe, that’s good enough for me.
  
  Imagine if Donald Trump jnr did what Hunter Biden did? Anderson Cooper and Rachel Maddow would talk about nothing else!?
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:18am
  - Bell-47
    
    I watched the CNN debate yesterday. It was an unmitigated disaster for all of them. All they talked about was impeachment and the “most corrupt POTUS” ever. Every time Biden’s past came up he changed the subject to impeachment. Warren would not answer questions on tax increases and the only other I had any interest in, Tulsi Gubbard, lost any respect I had for her by backing the impeachment process just so she can stay on side with the rest of the squad and their enablers. There was nothing of substance, no talk of the usual trappings of todays’s lefty liberals like climate change, homelessness, drug epidemic, immigration. Was all a giant circle jerk egged on by the CNN sycophants. I watched, just to I can remain informed of what these people are up to, not because I am a supporter.
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s an odd fixation on an irrelevant procedural point. All that is required is a resolution of the house of representatives to impeach, which sends the matter for trial in the senate. In advance of such a resolution, house committees may investigate and report their findings. It’s pretty clear that there is a majority in the house, and on the relevant committees, to proceed.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:41am
  - DILLIGAF
    
    Guess you didn’t watch the video then.
    -but I’m reliably informed that this is what you do.
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:00am
  - Scott
    
    Mikey – it may seem an odd procedural point to you but actually Congress moving to remove the duly elected president of the United States is a huge thing. And what has happened is that the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi, has taken it upon herself. Surely Congress should vote before moving on such a momentous, nation splitting course of action?
    
    But the reason she hasn’t is that it may be that the votes aren’t there? But also it would mean that congressional Democrats in swing districts would have to go on the record voting to impeach the president, in districts where the president is very popular!
    
    So it is a naked political ploy to either unseat the president without due process or to drive down his popularity in the wake of controversy. It is very bad form from the Democrats. One wonders is this going to be the new normal? That the Democrats will never accept a Republican Pres?
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:03am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Bye Bye US Govt.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:37am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Um, no. The house of representatives sets its own procedure. There is no requirement in the constitution for the house to do anything specifc, in ant order before a vote on articles of impeachment.
      This is just a nonsensical talking point to deflect attentoin from the president’s own action that have led to the impeachment inquiry.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:46am
      - DILLIGAF
        
        Really?
        the Dems are getting cold feet because a few of them understand the reality that going along with this will cost them their seats?
        
        missing the point seems to be your superpower.
        
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        October 17, 2019 10:19am
      - Bell-47
        
        Keep telling yourself that milky, all this is doing is consolidating his base, he will not be impeached this term and to me, seems likely, given the utter shambles that is the do-nothing democrats and their utterly useless candidates for POTUS, he will most likely win another term, control the house and the senate.
        
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        October 17, 2019 10:24am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        A faceless accuser is an affront to Justice.
        
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        October 17, 2019 11:49am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s another nonsensical talking point, Kev. The identity of the whistleblower(s) is immaterial. In fact, the whole point of whistle blowing mechanisms are to protect such people. The whistleblowers have pointed to the president’s phone call. The summary of the phone call bears out the concerns. The record of the presedent’s actions, and evidence by and about his hendh-persons are what matter.
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:16pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Whistle blowers don’t usually collude with the potential prosecutors, consult with them and stay hidden without description or lack of proof of malice aforethought.
        
        We no longer in civilised administrations have Courts of the Star Chamber or Inquisitions. A genuine whistle blower is rightly entitled to protection but not the right to hide from those accused.
        
        Faceless accusation are what Julian Assange is currently being brutalised in prison for. He hasn’t appeared in any US Court but is being held in ultra bad criminal conditions because someone hopes to question him or ultimately incarcerate for life.
        
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        October 17, 2019 2:18pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        mma, correct, there’s no prescription in the constitution for impeachment. There is an established precedent for the two previous presidential impeachment episodes, that is there is a vote by the entire House on impeachment. Also in both cases the relevant committee used was the Judicial one in the House. Pelosi has not adhered to that precedent – so it’s not a “nonsensical deflection”. It goes to how the process operates – run as it is Trump & the GOP cannot summon or subpoena witnesses and in fact they have been prevented from asking questions of existing witnesses. Both Nixon and Jackson – the two previously impeached Presidents had that ability. Didn’t help Nixon, but Jackson anyway survived if only just.
        
        Trouble with this whole episode is we know who the Whistleblower (so called) is, he’s a avid Democrat and has participated in the Biden campaign. He was also involved in meetings that set up the original Trump/Russia hoax (yes, it was a hoax, P2 of the Mueller report says so). He was also not an observer of the call, and it isn’t clear that his leaker source was either, so probably this is third hand information he’s peddling.
        
        The documented WB complaint is also materially false – that’s perjury. So you want to take the evidence of a perjurer and run with that ? There’s no “promise” in the transcript, different people were in on the call than the WB stated. And the AID withholding wasn’t communicated to teh Ukrainians until around 1 month after the phone call – so that allegation is simply slander.
        
        How one regards the transcription does seem to depend on your point of view. Some see a clear request to investigate a potential rival, others see the main requests as looking at historical corruption and investigating the treasonous attempt to railroad Trump in 2016/7 over the Russian hoax. And I must say, given that we have pretty conclusive proof that asking the Ukrainians to dig up dirt on an opposing candidate is precisely what the DNC/Clinton campaign did in 2016 (Chalupa has been specifically named by the Ukrainian embassy as soliciting and paying for such dirt and she was a paid contractor to the DNC), the Democrats have a pretty brass faced nerve to accuse Trump of doing the same with significantly less proof.
        
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        October 17, 2019 4:47pm
      - Ian Hawthorn
        
        If the whistle-blower worked with Biden and assisted as he told Ukraine to fire a prosecutor “or else”, as seems now to have been the case, then it seems highly relevant. In particular the whistle-blower would then be covering his own ass as well as Biden’s.
        
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        October 17, 2019 5:14pm
  - Scott
    
    One more thing about Joe Biden. Late-night talk host Trevor Noah openly mocks Joe Biden and his very muddled answer to the question about his sons dealings in the Ukraine-
    “Upon playing this clip, Noah immediately mocked the former vice president.
    
    “Okay, one minute he’s talking about his son, then it’s George Washington then something about the 17?” Noah asked, wondering why Biden’s response was so frenetic. “Joe Biden is the only candidate who remixes his speech while he’s giving it,” Noah said before imitating sounds of a record scratching.
    
    The controversy behind Hunter Biden stems from when the son of the former vice president accepted a lucrative position to serve on the board of a Ukrainian gas company.”
    
    If you are a liberal and you have lost liberal late-night host Trevor Noah then you are done. So Scott predicts that Joe Biden is finished. Stick a fork in it – it’s done!
    
    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/daily-show-host-trevor-noah-tears-into-joe-biden
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:18am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s proper to present your accusers before proceeding to trial. It’s called natural justice.
    The fact that the Dems are proceeding contrary to natural justice renders their actions void.
    
    How can so called socialists run a country?
    It seems it’s only by force–they believe, so they will do, a.k.a “might is right” or bullying.
    
    We see it in this failed Ardern fiasco. Everything is an inquiry except a captains call closing down Taranaki or gifting Ihumatau to the Maori without colour of right. Such things are of revolutions made.
    ☑️☑️
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:26am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The ‘trial’ in an impeachment case occurs in the senate.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:59am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        So why are the Dems throwing their toys out of the cot?
        If they cannot co-operate now in govt. how can they expect to govern in the future? They are destroying government.
        
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        October 17, 2019 2:20pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Yes, and the articles of impeachment – the accusations that are the charges, have in the past been presented by the whole house, not by one party and not evolved in secrecy by one party.
        
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        October 17, 2019 4:50pm
  - virtualmark
    
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/must-house-vote-authorize-impeachment-inquiry
    
    Short answer: Absolutely no constitutional or legal need for the House to vote on an impeachment inquiry. None at all.
    
    They do have to vote to send any Articles of Impeachment to the Senate.
    
    Trump’s defence team then get to put their case *in the trial in the Senate*. Saying they are being denied justice because they can’t take part in the inquiry is like asking why a criminal isn’t allowed to cross-examine the Police during their investigation.
    
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    October 17, 2019 2:19pm
    - Scott
      
      Dear me virtual mark – I do have to say I think you are suffering from a severe case of TDS. I don’t say that to be mean to you. But I think your TDS is not helping you with your argument.
      
      The Republicans are being denied justice because they can’t take part in the enquiry. Criminals are not allowed to cross-examine witnesses during the investigation. But criminals are allowed defence lawyers during an investigation.
      
      In this case the Democrats are calling witnesses and cross-examining them without any semblance of judicial fairness. The president is not allowed to have his counsel in the room. Some Republicans are not being allowed to attend proceedings. Let’s face it, it’s a stitch up.
      
      Essentially it’s an impeachment enquiry without the formal vote to begin impeachment and without the requirement of procedural fairness that comes from an impeachment vote.
      
      I cannot see how any fair-minded person can look at this process and look at the substance of the case, which is a presidential phone call to the president of Ukraine, and believe that the President of the United States should be removed from office. It is naked political partisanship designed to bring the president down. Because they really don’t like him and their feelings were hurt when they lost the 2016 election.
      
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      October 17, 2019 3:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Keep on with the talking points, all of which have already been rebutted in this very thread. But keep whingeing about the imaginary process defects instead of addressing anything substantive.
        BTW, I see the house of representatives voted 354-60 (including a 2-1 vote by republicans) to condemn Trump’s Syrian shambles. And I assume that was even before he released his imbecilic letter to Erdogan.
        
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        October 17, 2019 3:59pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        mma, amusing that Congress voted against removing troops from Syria, when they never voted to put them in there in the first place. Those troops were put in by Obama, illegally.
        
        I bet if Trump had tried to put some in you’d all go ballistic about warmongering.
        
        And I must say I find it rich for YOU to talk about “talking points” when you’re simply repeating the false and misleading Democrat talking points yourself.
        
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        October 17, 2019 4:54pm
      - KH
        
        It was Obama and Hillary who spent billions and had thousands killed making Syria a shambles.
        Trump is just taking the US out of the continuing mess. It’s the best of a list of bad alternatives. Good on him.
        
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        October 17, 2019 6:16pm
peterwn

The guy who tried to stop his van being pinched would be heaving a sigh of relief that the Police’s interim view was that he acted in self defence meaning he is very unlikely to face charges. However he may face the same emotions as a train driver does when his train hits someone who strays on to the tracks.
Police said he fully cooperated with enquiries. Also there were independent witnesses, What can be worrying about such cases is the victim may say the wrong thing and incriminate himself.Anyway Kudos to the Police for speedily resolving the matter. Unfortunately in marginal cases investigations and Crown Law review of the file can drag on for ages.
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October 17, 2019 8:03am
- sooty
  
  Poor man can’t help if Darwin steps up!
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:37am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Something that should stay you hand further if you ever get into such a circumstance is that the low-lives and their mates are more likely to be the types to seek revenge. It’s not worth the anxiety unless you are really in danger.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:41am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    So? What, he should have just apologised for interfering with their day and handed them the keys?
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:09am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      You can replace stuff, but not a life. The arseholes would likely get caught given a witness. So yeah, probably the best move, regardless of how we might like the idea of meting out justice directly. I have changed my views on this a lot since having kids – and you really need to plan your best course of action before you get into a situation where you are reacting on the spur of the moment.
      
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      October 17, 2019 9:42am
      - Tall Man
        
        So… protect your kids or not?
        
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        October 17, 2019 10:03am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Surely you can’t mean to suggest that in ‘marginal cases’ there should be no careful cnsideration of criminal liability.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:46am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s pleasing to hear speedy application of good judgment.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:39am
- srylands
  
  I think I would be reluctant to tackle two guys breaking into my car. With P and knives it might end badly. Anyway good on him.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:46am
  - Tall Man
    
    A considered response is always the best but generally these low lifes would be less skilled than many….
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:05am
    - srylands
      
      There was a case a few years back where a guy caught some guys tagging his garage. He tackled them, and stabbed one of them fatally. He got prison time for manslaughter. No doubt he should not have had a knife, but that is the shit that happens when these low lives harass law abiding citizens.
      
      Last week I called the police at 0300 about boyracers doing burn outs in the street outside. Of course they had relocated by the time the cops arrived. I can understand the guy in the Hutt who took to them with a road surfacing roller :-).
      
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      October 17, 2019 10:29am
      - peterwn
        
        Yes, this is what could also happen. Possession of a knife etc makes no difference to the ‘self defence’ law. For example a prisoner with an illegal weapon who stabbed another prisoner was acquitted because he / his lawyer argued successfully it was self defence.
        
        The guy you referred to would have been unaware of the implications of the self defence law. If he told the police that he believed his life was at risk he would have satisfied the first limb of the self defence law. The issue then becomes whether the force was reasonable and arguably it was especially as it was two against one.
        
        The police would be more ready to push for a prosecution where a weapon especially a firearm was involved.
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:11pm
      - sooty
        
        You are better to take the kids baseball bat out.
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:26pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I understand that and those of us with a modicum of “training” are also at risk of the “overzealous” accusation.
        
        Using the “fear of harm” defense usually works, or it did when I was younger, but generally if the odds are against you then there should be no issue.
        
        As a registered firearm owner I would never use a weapon, any weapon, to defend myself plus the potential outcomes of the use of that weapon may outweigh any threat.
        
        Normally a quick flick and helping them lie down is sufficient to cool their desire to misbehave. It also gives their buddies food for thought.
        
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        October 17, 2019 2:41pm
      - Nermal
        
        It would be difficult to argue self defence if you chase after the victim
        
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        October 17, 2019 3:31pm
- Liberty
  
  From the Nursery
  9th Floor
  
  Txt to Comrade Nash
  Nashy it is all going to shit. Everyone hates me no one loves me any more. Comrade Galloway has stuffed up again. The dirty deeds in the office is soon to go ballistic.Comrade Winston lot are about to implode. The last thing we need is some local hero protecting private property being persecuted by our friends.Will they were our friends until they realised I was telling porkies on the number of police. Still we got away with the bullshit for two years.
  Get it sorted.
  Yours Comrade Dear Leader.
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:46am
harvey wilson

Remember when our prime minister said she would house every homeless person in New Zealand before winter in 2018 ?
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October 17, 2019 8:04am
- Inandout
  
  harvey they are housed in motels, an industry that is experiencing a boom in occupancy.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:11am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Not really a boom, all their usual business has gone to former landlords who are now on Airbnb
    
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    October 17, 2019 8:37am
  - kevn
    
    @In… It has certainly changed the motel visitor dynamics in Rotorua.
    
    14 0
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    October 17, 2019 9:37am
    - Rich Prick
      
      You should always ask if they house WINZ “clients” before booking. Another handy hint, in smaller towns and cities, avoid motels within a 1km radius of the courts when a murder or meth trial is on.
      
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      October 17, 2019 10:13am
      - Inandout
        
        RP, not always relating to court trials. A friend who gives me the good oil said his town of Levin has a brand new motel which houses 3 ‘homeless’ families. On a weekly basis a property maintenance man visits this motel to repair holes in the walls. One can only imagine what happens in those motel rooms when the visitors arrive.
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:15pm
      - sooty
        
        So when travelling around should you stay in up market hotels?
        I would ha though a new motel would not house the bennies!
        
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        October 17, 2019 12:29pm
    - RightFirstTime
      
      Given that the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, who now administer the “emergency” motel accommodation, pay three times the market rate for the motel rooms many motel operators are more than happy to take the (taxpayer’s) money.
      
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      October 17, 2019 6:03pm
- oldgolfer
  
  Yeah, cold comfort.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:11am
  - srylands
    
    Cold Comfort Inn ?
    
    11 0
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    October 17, 2019 8:35am
- Ruawai
  
  She might have room in her large Wellington home
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:58am
igm

Does Peters now join the ranks of Turei and Sepulonis?
Seems he is not as straight as we were led to believe.
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October 17, 2019 8:07am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  No!!!!
  
  This is my shocked face. Winston? Making shit up?
  
  Rambling and obfuscating?
  
  Still my beating heart!
  
  51 0
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  October 17, 2019 8:15am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is Winston’s dementia worsening?
    He has been fuzzy in his presentation for quite a while. He may represent the drinking classes as a Foreign Minister but his Officials will be the actual workers. As a Parliamentarian he appears to now be a real liability.
    The latest reports show a typical aged muddler as found in nursing homes.
    Sorry Winston, get out now while you still have some mana.
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:44am
- Poppa
  
  Peters? Straight?
  
  Yeah right
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:16am
  - sooty
    
    I thought that they had fixed his “Rugby” injury!
    
    27 0
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    October 17, 2019 8:42am
- sooty
  
  What, he makes shit up?
  Cindy does that too!
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:23am
  - freethinker
    
    Cindy bin Lying is being taught by the master.
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:19am
- peterwn
  
  This is interesting. I had thought the circumstances surrounding the superannuation payments would be beyond the scope of the trial but the Crown and/or ex-Ministers lawyers want to bring it into play and the Judge has agreed. Possibly if a prominent someone plays fast and loose with a Government agency then the ‘no surprises’ policy means that the responsible Minister needs to be informed. For example if someone evades tax but pays it back under IRD pressure that person has no right of privacy, unlike an ordinary taxpayer where strict privacy provisions apply. For example the IRD Commissioner need not (and indeed cannot) tell the Minister that a taxpayer has become a billionaire.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:33am
JibberJabber

Thomas Sowell

Racism is not dead. But it is on life-support, kept alive mainly by the people who use it for an excuse or to keep minority communities fearful or resentful enough to turn out as a voting bloc on election day.
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October 17, 2019 8:12am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  JibberJabber,
  
  Thomas Sowell: Idiot Emeritus
  
  https://otoolefan.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/thomas-sowell-idiot-emeritus/
  
  Move on!
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:10am
  - Swifty
    
    Do you see the way the deranged left on KB just simply name call and think their job done instead of debating points to win people to their cause.
    
    Mutton, Morrissey, Stiffboy – they’re all the same. It’s pathetic really.
    
    I could say Lord Stiffy of St Lukes – idiot extraordinaire. But it doesn’t really achieve much does it – even though we know it to be true.
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:38am
  - graham
    
    OTOOLEFAN (aka Don Millard): Self-described Sardonic Writer and Artist
    
    Dr. Thomas Sowell: American economist and social theorist; a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University; graduated magna cum laude from Harvard University in 1958; received a master’s degree from Columbia University in 1959; he earned his doctorate in economics from the University of Chicago in 1968; has written more than thirty books; a National Humanities Medal recipient for innovative scholarship which incorporated history, economics and political science; won the Francis Boyer Award, presented by the American Enterprise Institute, in 1990; received the Sydney Hook Award from the National Association of Scholars in 1998; awarded the National Humanities Medal for prolific scholarship melding history, economics, and political science in 2002; was awarded the Bradley Prize for intellectual achievement in 2003; awarded Laissez Faire Books’ Lysander Spooner Award for his book “Applied Economics: Thinking Beyond Stage One” in 2004.
    
    Hmm … who to take more seriously? Tough decision …
    
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    October 17, 2019 11:29am
  - alloytoo
    
    For those with a passing interest Mr Sowell’s position in his own words.
    https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sowell/06/12/socialist-or-fascist
    His position is that historically Fascism and Socialism go hand in hand and that some of Obama’s policy/actions fitted into this mold.
    He of course has a point, many of Hitler’s economic policies mirrored those of Roosevelt’s new deal, though on the face of it Hilter’s were possibly more effective in rebuilding the German economy.
    October 16, 2019 2:57pm
    
    I’ve cut and paste my post from yesterday in response to Stephies spam. (Apologies for the duplication)
    
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    October 17, 2019 12:29pm
  - Nermal
    
    That’s right. If you can’t argue with the message, attack the messenger. Marxist tactic
    
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    October 17, 2019 3:34pm
Paulus

Listening recently to Angry Andy, now often getting into our faces, which he is at present over his new Terrorist Bill, do I detect that he is positioning himself along with his Union mates to take over the Labour Parliamentary Party again when Ardern get the bums rush next year ?
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October 17, 2019 8:16am
- sooty
  
  Do you think that she will last that long?
  Are you thinking begining or end?
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:40am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Woohoo, that would guarantee at least another nine year stint in Govt. for National. Mind you, we’ll need all that time to fix the mess and economic destruction from the out-of-control muppets.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:39am
Tall Man

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-country/audio/winston-peters-criticises-mischievous-deceitful-farming-leaders/

I really despise this lying sack of crap.

“Winston Peters has hit out at the “bulldust” coming from farming community leaders over freshwater reform proposals.”

There are three decent rivers within 15 minutes of where I live. All are fishable and all have trout… and all are surrounded by dairy and horticulture operations.

There are some issues but the bulk of farmers in NZ are working extremely hard to reduce their impact so “what’s in it for wynston” attacks all farmers.
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October 17, 2019 8:19am
- peterwn
  
  And some of these farmers would have voted NZF to ‘teach National a lesson’.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:34am
  - igm
    
    Peters thinks he was badly received last election when he invited himself to an event in Waikato . . . wait till he gets out this time . . . he will cop the lot!
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:16am
    - Tall Man
      
      He won’t go near the place.
      
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      October 17, 2019 10:07am
- freethinker
  
  Are there any River/Streams in the Urban area you live in that are swimmable or fishable ????????????
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:21am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t really live in an urban area but of those nearby…..of course there are.
    
    I saw a couple of guys recently fishing the Hutt river on my drive to the big smoke.
    
    An old mate still fishes the Manawatu river with a degree of success. The Rangitikei passes through a few urban ares and is still giving up trout.
    
    The river mouth at Foxton is still a good spot for beach fishing as is the Otaki.
    
    There are still plenty of snapper in the Whangarei harbour area so there is an awful lot of false reporting and inflammatory claims being made.
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:12am
- chaos
  
  Yeah, it is the same here, all our rivers are great around the farming area, until you get near the town and the river has the towns rubbish dump beside it polluting it.
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:45am
Brian Marshall

I believe that our Primeminister is a pathological liar. The problem with that is not really the lies, it’s with the pathological PM.

I should add, this is just my opinion.
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October 17, 2019 8:21am
- sooty
  
  But alot of people think like you!
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:37am
- herb1
  
  Your belief is correct , which is why she’s a soul mate with her DPM
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:41am
- JackRabbit
  
  @Brian Marshall
  
  Your opinion happens to coincide with what most people have observed.
  
  Pathological Liar:
  They lie even when they don’t need to.
  
  The lie does matter … to them.
  
  They lie even when, the lie will be easily found out. Pathological Liars usually have poor memories, and when under pressure can’t recall all the lies they have told in order to fit their answer into the desired spin narrative, so they simply tell another lie.
  
  Even under minor pressure, Pathological Liars can genuinely forget which country they are in, or if a mayoral candidate stood as an independent or under the Labour banner. They can’t remember the pre-election promises they made, because these were just more lies to get vote, and never intended to carry out those promises. They assume that everyone else has equally as short memories as they do.
  
  They can deliberately “forget” they took part in an Anti-Trump rally, creating an alternate reality that is was a woman’s rally.
  
  It’s not a lie to them. They may actually believe their own bullshit or be operating from some more favourable and desired alternate reality. Which is always true with socialists.
  
  They want it to be true.
  
  They don’t want to lose face.
  
  Telling the truth feels like giving up control.
  If they admit one lie, they feel that no-one will trust anything they ever say again.
  
  If they admit one lie, they have to open a tiny crack in the dam of lies they are holding back, most of which they have forgotten.
  
  To a pathological liar, admitting one lie, is like pulling out the bottom card in a house of cards.
  The force of all the built up lies will come crashing through like a dam burst exposing them for what they are.
  
  The cheque is in the mail.
  I’ll respect you in the morning.
  We will not increase taxes.
  I knew nothing about my close friend being accused of rape.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:10am
  - Tall Man
    
    Thanks for the detail but I was happy with
    
    “ardern is a liar”… 😉
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:13am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Hi Tall Man
      
      It is not all about how you see it, otherwise the recent polling would have Labour at 0%.
      
      Understanding the symptoms and mechanisms always helps those with doubt be more sure.
      
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      October 17, 2019 12:47pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Thanks, but I’m still ok with “ardern is a liar” 🙂
        
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        October 17, 2019 2:31pm
kowtow

Must say I enjoyed Jesse Mulligan on tv3 last night making an appeal against their competition getting tax payer support .
Next he’ll be calling for RNZ to be defunded , not.
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October 17, 2019 8:23am
- MrLovebucket
  
  He just wants the taxpayer to fund tv3 as well – and remove any requirement to produce quality/interesting entertainment.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:40am
  - RightFirstTime
    
    LB I think you are being more than a little generous to suggest TV3 are currently producing any quality/interesting entertainment.
    
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    October 17, 2019 11:09am
Maggie Pie

A friend in the UK tweets:

‘Police in Runcorn want to speak to this man in connection to sexual assault offences. It is alleged he exposed himself to an elderly woman sitting in a bus stop, and attempted to sexually assault a woman in her 30’s after dragging her into bushes’

https://twitter.com/PoliceRuncorn/status/1177178111026315264

Judging by the photo-fit, he is also wanted for crimes against eye brow pluking and hairdressing 😀
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October 17, 2019 8:29am
Yvette

The entire residency crock concerning the recidivist drink-driver – but “protected person” – indicates New Zealand has to deal with some people we wish weren’t in the country – and allow a potential killer in our midst.

What is the difference between that and allowing back into the country a New Zealander who has the right to be here, but who may have become a terrorist – a danger to society – or is mentally unwell, or both.

And is there not already sufficient law to deal with both?

A terrorist is a person who has only a certain mental attitude to others, until that belief is expressed in action effecting others.
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October 17, 2019 8:39am
Tony Stuart

Kudos to Nick Smith, who had a win yesterday in a complaint made about him to the Advertising Standards Authority. Here’s the decision:

https://www.asa.co.nz//backend/documents/2019/10/02/19324.pdf

The complainant in the case was one A. Little, who is in fact Hon. Andrew Little, Minister of Justice, and Minister for Pike River Recovery. Little wasn’t happy that Smith questioned the way the government was playing fast and loose with Health and Safety legislation.

Nick Smith has posted the following on Facebook:

Had a win today with the Advertising Standards Authority. It dismissed all three aspects of complaint by Justice Minister Andrew Little over my recent column questioning merits of Govt exempting itself from new workplace safety laws and mining regulations to get down Pike Mine. Independent Authority found my statements were a “truthful presentation”. Minister now bagging Authority. Govt sensitivity on this issue is that they cynically exploited this national tragedy for political purposes and do not like being called out.

Little claims the decision by the ASA “could have a chilling effect on democracy”. Sour grapes Mr Little? Bullies don’t like it when their targets fight back.
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October 17, 2019 8:46am
- alex Masterley
  
  Mr Little is attempting to throw his weight around in a rather unpleasant manner.
  Sums him up.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:56am
- alex Masterley
  
  I suspect this matter may receive some further attention at question time today if the list of questions for oral answer is anything to go by.
  
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  October 17, 2019 1:16pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Indeed Alex. I’m about to settle in and watch the fun.
    
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    October 17, 2019 1:55pm
peterwn

There is a blackmail scam doing the rounds aimed at those who watch porn. Scammer wants about $1000 paid into bitcoin wallet 15yF8WkUg8PRjJehYW4tGdqcyzc4z7dScM

This and a related wallet have raked in about $100,000.
A computer savvy person can soon see it is nonsense but the scam email puts the wind up porn watchers and is upsetting to innocent people who are not so computer savvy (I have reported it to Internal Affairs to help allay the fears of a friend). Google the wallet number for more information.
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October 17, 2019 8:47am
- rangitoto
  
  Driving home one night earlier this week, I heard Leah on Magic Talk say she had received one of these.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:00am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Magic Radio talkback host Lea Panapa was talking about this a couple of nights ago. She had received the same scam. After reading the contents of the email out on air, you would have to say that anyone who actually fell for it probably deserved to!
  
  You could tell immediately it was written by someone from a ‘third-world shithole’ that could hardly string two coherent sentences together. At a guess I would say African in origin.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:11am
  - MrLovebucket
    
    Have you seen the state of our education system lately? Could have easily be written by someone in the NZ teaching profession.
    
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    October 17, 2019 9:43am
  - Tall Man
    
    Possibly Tokoroa….
    
    Had a client scammed recently… the police tracked the scammer to Otaki.
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:16am
- Yvette
  
  I too have received a copy of this scam, threatening to send video – recorded by malware ‘they’ have installed to document my use of porn sites – to all those on my email app, unless I pay up.
  
  Since I sit close enough to the computer, my guess is that such a recording if it happened would only show the lines of puzzlement between my eyebrows.
  Everything else has sagged out of sight.
  
  I tell myself this scam would be unbelievably more successful if in fact they included just one screen-shot (just eyebrows, or more) of the incriminating video they claim to possess.
  
  But they don’t do they – obviously, simply, because they don’t have it.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:40am
  - Tall Man
    
    I asked them to tell me which sites I had been watching as they must be pretty good… better than my usual 😉
    
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    October 17, 2019 10:17am
- alex Masterley
  
  I have received variants of this scam over the past few months.
  The delete button is immediately utilised.
  
  17 0
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  October 17, 2019 9:54am
  - Tarquin North
    
    Shane Jones probably has to tape his delete button down, with history it must be raining dodgy emails.
    
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    October 17, 2019 11:11am
- chaos
  
  Old scam, had it months ago. Although while talking of scams spark have advised the old ring up and hang up scam is back hoping people will call the number back to see who it was.
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:48am
lastmanstanding

So Golriz wants to bring the ISIS terrorists their brides and kids home.

OK I agree provided they are either housed right next to her or she guarantees the safety of all citizens from them.

A better idea would be for NZ Oz and US to put a US$1 million bounty on their heads and let the locals go for a turkey shoot.

This would save the tax payer in the long run.
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October 17, 2019 9:33am
- MrLovebucket
  
  And an even better idea would be for her to go over there and help them in person.
  
  25 0
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  October 17, 2019 9:44am
  - Tarquin North
    
    She could send her boyfriend, the worlds least funny comedian – I hear he’s between jobs.
    
    28 0
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    October 17, 2019 10:10am
- Maggie Pie
  
  These kids just wanna have fun 🙁
  
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/children-heads.jpg
  
  13 0
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  October 17, 2019 10:02am
  - Tall Man
    
    Are you sure that first photo isn’t a young shane jones? They have the same inane grin……
    
    3 2
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    October 17, 2019 10:23am
  - chaos
    
    it’s ok, they’re living the dream, it is greta nut job whose childhood has been ruined.
    
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    October 17, 2019 11:13am
- Tall Man
  
  She’s just trying to do her bit to increase the lefty vote…..
  
  4 2
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  October 17, 2019 10:20am
  - Tall Man
    
    Who downticked… Own up and we’ll “chat” about it 🙁
    
    1 2
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    October 17, 2019 8:50pm
Tauhei Notts

This is a politics blog site so I took one for the team. I watched Democratic Party debate yesterday. Ok, that is two hours I will never ever get back.
Elizabeth Warren made me think of Cassius Clay’s famous remark in February 1965 when he said;
“Sonny Liston is too ugly to be the world champion.”
Clay’s comment was not considered to be sexist. Possibly my comment is.
Yang impressed me as the only one who could give Trump a run for his money. But the betting markets disagree with me. He has lengthened to $40 in the market.
Apart from Yang they were an uninspiring bunch and that is shown in the betting markets where Trump has shortened a little. If that is the brains of their outfit now we know what sort of outfit they have got. Warren has edged out to $3.80.
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October 17, 2019 9:43am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I like Yang too, political outsider, rational and pragmatic, doesn’t have all the answers, but willing to listen to all points of view to try to find something better than status quo.
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:45am
- MCos
  
  “I took one for the team.”
  
  Thank you very much.
  
  Those political debates are tedious in the extreme, no matter who is involved.
  There have been a few golden moments over the years, however. My favourite occurred a long time ago in a Muldoon/Rowling encounter.
  Rowling gave a lengthy answer to some question & the moderator asked Muldoon for his opinion.
  Sorry, he said, I wasn’t listening.
  
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  October 17, 2019 11:11am
lastmanstanding

The difference between the Right and the Left.

The Right seek to debate issues and invite the Left to join them in doing so.

The Left seek to shut down the Right and deny them the right ( pun intended ) to debate issues the Left dont agree with.
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October 17, 2019 9:52am
- Nermal
  
  Another difference between the Right and the Left.
  
  You upset the Right by telling lies
  
  You upset the Left by telling the truth
  
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  October 17, 2019 3:44pm
Odakyu-sen

Japanese TV is full of programs focussing on the clean-up in the wake of Typhoon 19.
One of the most poignant images is of the inside of a convenience store (after the waters had receded) showing a packet of cigarettes stuck to the ceiling.
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October 17, 2019 9:55am
- mark15
  
  I thought it was the price that went up.
  
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  October 17, 2019 12:09pm
rightoverlabour

Interesting. A self-declared Terrorist could potentially return to New Zealand and live the life of Riley. A previously law-abiding gun owner faces 5 years for doing nothing more than owning a gun. Go Figure.
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October 17, 2019 10:19am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Rewarding the people who hate your society while punishing those who love your society (and wish to protect themselves and their families) is what you would do if you wanted to harm your society or make it easier for you to control it.
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:28am
- chaos
  
  I have no problem with him being allowed back into this country under the condition he has to live with Golriz. Actually I’d feel sorry for him having to live with her and her humourless moronic boyfriend.
  
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  October 17, 2019 10:55am
  - Tall Man
    
    With an evening curfew.
    
    4 1
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    October 17, 2019 2:23pm
Nookin

It seems that Ireland has now publicised its game plan. It is going to cheat like buggery at the breakdown, make sure that the Orblax cannot get clean ball, do everything in its power to slow the game down and growl at the referee if he promotes a free-flowing game.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116644447/all-blacks-v-ireland-irish-fear-new-zealand-will-play-referee-nigel-owens
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October 17, 2019 10:44am
DigNap15

Andrew Little has also appointed a new guy in charge of the Dustric Courts.
He is going to bring in Marae based justice to them ALL.
He knows of one guy ten years ago who went to a Marae court and turned his life around.
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October 17, 2019 10:52am
- Tall Man
  
  Got elected to parliament or promoted to the bench?
  
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  October 17, 2019 2:21pm
srylands

This new coal mine in Australia will be up and running by 2021. All financed by an Indian billionaire. It has reserves of 10 billion tons.

Greta won’t be happy.

https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/carmichael-coal-mine-and-rail-project-queensland/

But it just shows that Australia is on a pro growth path. It might pay lip service to the Paris Agreement, but otherwise it is full steam ahead.
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October 17, 2019 10:52am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  If the rising concentration of CO2-plant food in the atmosphere is being mopped up by land plants and marine plankton, then we should see a rise in the yields of crops/biomass per hectare (ignoring the effects of changes in fertilizer or irrigation).
  
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  October 17, 2019 1:05pm
  - Tall Man
    
    That’s what I believe as well. More carbon more plant food… more food from plants.
    
    Simple really.
    
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    October 17, 2019 2:19pm
- stigie
  
  Australia:- Getting on with business
  
  NZ:- Buckling under the force from the climate change nutters which will cost us billions !~
  
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  October 17, 2019 1:54pm
Yvette

Is Little actually claiming we do not already have sufficient laws to deal with a person who is known to the world as to have provided sufficient evidence to justify surveillance, if not constraints, as any other criminal or mental patient requiring such care as to prevent harm to others or self?
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October 17, 2019 10:52am
chaos

The arrogance would be to ignore these people. But alas we don’t have to worry as this government showed with its police back down yesterday that they don’t do a damn thin pig they say they will

* The heads of intelligence agencies and technologists across the country have warned against online voting for security reasons. Last year, Statistics NZ’s “digital first” census had the lowest participation rate in more than 50 years. Nine councils working on a joint plan to trial online voting in this year’s elections abandoned the idea, owing to rising potential costs.

But as the polls close on another round of local body elections plagued by low voter turnout, officials are looking for a panacea.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on Tuesday said she wants some voting to be online for the 2022 elections. “We need to see at least the beginning of online voting in my view, and I have held that view for some time,” Ardern told Stuff in an interview.*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/116496911/why-it-will-never-be-possible-to-have-a-completely-protected-online-voting
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October 17, 2019 10:59am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The PM learnt how to count pieces of fish and pack out 3 scoops of chips: what qualifications does she have in systems implementation?
  
  Is she responsible for the appalling new systems at WINZ?
  IRD are in a mess too. Tax payments are not being recorded properly and refunds turn up unexpected.
  WINZ, we encountered in helping someone this week. I have built successful large public systems and when I can’t fill in forms on line I doubt if others can. Everyone now requires an active on-line MyMSD login and email address. (Did they borrow that from Aussie?) Even those too poor through ill health to pay their rent have to have this to get an appointment which can be a month or more away.
  Details are expected on line by selecting from lists–menu upon menu upon menu. Oops overload call back later.
  
  Get this COL out before they wreck our agricultural sector too.
  
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  October 17, 2019 2:45pm
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/10/wellington-council-swiftly-removes-advertising-campaign-after-racist-comments-from-poster-boy.html

So comments made as a silly teenager have cost him his job.

I doubt many of us could survive scrutiny of all our past actions and comments.

I’ll bet the “citizen” who reported his comments feels very “satisfied” with themselves…it’ll be a sanctimonious wanker like we get here from time to time……..
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October 17, 2019 11:00am
- chaos
  
  Can’t even get a current moronic lying prime minister fired on her current actions and statements, yet someone can have this happen to them over something they once said a long time ago. Bizarre world we live in
  
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  October 17, 2019 11:33am
- srylands
  
  I have a friend who takes care to have no online presence. No Facebook. No social media. No comments on blogs. Ever. I can see the benefits.
  
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  October 17, 2019 12:45pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WOW! What on earth does he do for friends? I’ve got over a thousand.
    
    8 0
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    October 17, 2019 1:11pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Maggie Pie:
      
      Are Stephieboy and Morrissey in your list of Facebook friends?
      
      6 1
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      October 17, 2019 2:10pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Maggie….. He talk to “real” people…….. 😉
      
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      October 17, 2019 2:15pm
Joely Doe

Trio avoid jail despite ‘pack attack’ on Dunedin students who went to help distraught woman

Is it going to take someone to attack a member of the judiciary for soft sentences to stop?
WTF do you have to do to go to prison in NZ these days?
Picking weeds and painting fences, for bashing someone unconscious and kicking them in the head!
That could easily be a manslaughter charge!
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October 17, 2019 11:07am
- cmm
  
  … if they even bother showing up….
  
  Getting off the couch to pick weeds is, apparently, cruel and unusual punishment.
  
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  October 17, 2019 3:41pm
Joely Doe

Trio avoid jail despite ‘pack attack’ on Dunedin students who went to help distraught woman

Is it going to take someone to attack a member of the judiciary for soft sentences to stop?
WTF do you have to do to go to prison in NZ these days?
Picking weeds and painting fences, for bashing someone unconscious and kicking them in the head!
That could easily be a manslaughter charge!

**2nd post to fix link – edit not working for me…
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October 17, 2019 11:17am
- rightoverlabour
  
  own a naughty gun….
  
  Terrorist – Nah
  Rapist – Nah, don’t even prosecute…
  Murder – maybe.
  
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  October 17, 2019 11:45am
- Lance
  
  And the feral scum was a repeat offender.
  So how many more people will be maimed or killed by this piece of filth?
  
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  October 17, 2019 1:24pm
  - Tall Man
    
    As long as it’s not judge michael turner why should he care.
    
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    October 17, 2019 2:13pm
Bell-47

Another long term Labour stalwart leaves the party in disgust at anti semitism from the party and Corbyn. Poor old commie pants Corbyn just cannot catch a break..GOOD!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50077384
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October 17, 2019 11:52am
Surely Knott

Media works cuts Guy Williams show but is bringing it back for the NZ elections! What?! How ethical is this. Will National MP’s partners also get a paid slot on the show for balance?

“For next year, we have decided to rest the show for the first part of the year returning it in the back half of 2020 for a 12 episode run – timed around the NZ and US elections.”
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October 17, 2019 12:17pm
- chaos
  
  Guy Williams show has been canned, it is 7 days that will be back for 12 episodes. As for 7 days, national MPs have often gone on it
  
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  October 17, 2019 12:37pm
DigNap15

I just read today GD right through and most of it was posted at 9 or 10 this morning.
Then I get to some stuff that I saw just a while ago.
It really is like a time machine.
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October 17, 2019 12:49pm
Straight arrow

Anyone watch Wellington Paranormal last night? A certain fisherman had to be rescued from a couple of taniwha on heat. He was one of a dozen or so needing to be rescued.

For some reason, he was prioritised by the police in this comedy, but one suspects that he is prioritised in real life by police…they even issue certain press statements about him.
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October 17, 2019 12:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Top show. Did you see the first season?
  
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  October 17, 2019 2:24pm
- skyblue
  
  Must of thought the Taniwha was Karel Schubrk delivering a lawnmower so he could do lines.
  
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  October 17, 2019 6:56pm
secondcumming

I recall reading a couple of months back that a Chinese owned company in this country had been fined for chemically adulterating honey and labeling it as *Manuka Honey*. This enabled them to sell it on the export market for an exorbitant price.

It appears *Australia* may have something similar happening there as well……

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1183592212602310656
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October 17, 2019 1:04pm
chaos

Sorry, but wtf. You claim to be about mental health but you offer a new facility with a caveat on that offer

* The Government is putting $100 million towards building a new acute mental health facility for Waikato, replacing an aging facility and increasing capacity by up to 20 beds.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister David Clark made the announcement in Hamilton today with a caveat – the funding is dependent on the final business case, due in early 2021.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12277371
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October 17, 2019 1:34pm
- greybeard
  
  Most of what they promise to do is timed for 2020 or later.
  They know they will not be in Govt to actually see these things through.
  
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  October 17, 2019 1:52pm
- Poppa
  
  Very pleased to see this Chaos, the way this excuse for a govt is going I will be booking in to the facility very soon.
  
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  October 17, 2019 1:52pm
- cmm
  
  $100M of spend up gives 20 beds. $5M per bed sounds a bit steep.
  
  Not much of an investment, more like a spend up for the crony-capitalists.
  
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  October 17, 2019 3:39pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I think it is “extra” beds over the facility that’s currently in use.
    
    However, it is deferred until at least 2021 and subject to the presentation of a workable business plan… so basically waffle again.
    
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    October 17, 2019 4:46pm
    - cmm
      
      The “extra” beds are is what we are really getting for the 100M.
      
      I
      
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      October 17, 2019 6:19pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Trust me, I do not support this and in time, neither will the “Health Community”…….
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:12pm
- ex-golfer
  
  In April 2016 the Waikato DHB announced it would replace the Henry Rongomau Bennett Centre.
  This is another case of Ardern and Clark trying to claim credit for something that was already being done.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:01pm
Surely Knott

Oh look. New Zealand grabbing more international headlines. From the Economist. “NZ will accept more refugees from Africa and the Middle East. ” I wonder if that’s what voters thought they were getting when they were voting for Labour and NZ1 . ? https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/10/10/new-zealand-tries-to-live-up-to-its-welcoming-reputation
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October 17, 2019 2:50pm
chaos

He has to go

* New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is defending MP Clayton Mitchell after he was removed from a Tauranga bar on Saturday night.

Peters said that Mitchell, a NZ First MP, had not acted inappropriately and there was video evidence to prove it – though he had not seen it himself.

He was responding to a report that Mitchell and a friend were thrown out of the Mount Brewing Co. Bar after failing to respond to repeated requests to move out of the way of bar staff.

Security guard John Domoney, who was working at the bar at the time, told Newshub that Mitchell and his friend were asked repeatedly to move from an area where bar staff needed to pass through.

Domoney said that when they were asked to move, the bar staff were told: “We are the law.”

He said that Mitchell accidentally hit a female bar staffer on the side of a head with a glass.

“A female staff member came out of the bar crying and upset and she had said one of the guys from that group which was Clayton had hit her on the side of the head with a glass and spilled his drink on her,” he told Newshub.

“It wasn’t an assault, it was more of an accidental incident, but it was because he was in that bar area.”“

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12276611

* Newshub has spoken to two witnesses who say there was a scuffle between Mitchell and security guards, which Mitchell denies.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/we-are-the-law-nz-first-mp-and-friend-in-incident-at-tauranga-bar.html
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October 17, 2019 3:08pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  That Clayton Mitchell is a right prat, just like his boss.
  And he should know all about bar behaviour because he used to own one.
  
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  October 17, 2019 4:13pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Not defending the guy but I was once removed from a bar in Dunedin for breaking up a fight between two intoxicated patrons.
    
    When the fight started the two “security” pussies jumped up onto tables and radioed for assistance. I found a headlock and choke hold stopped them both in an instant. I got involved because the fuckers fell into my table and spilled my pint!
    
    Security didn’t like an old fart showing them up I think so they can get a little jumped up at times.
    
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    October 17, 2019 4:51pm
    - Swifty
      
      Good man.
      
      5 0
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      October 17, 2019 5:14pm
      - Tall Man
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lR1sEn8nMI
        
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        October 17, 2019 9:07pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  John Key would have got rid of him in a heartbeat.
  
  Remember Aaron Gilmore?
  
  14 0
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  October 17, 2019 4:40pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    I was thinking the same thing.
    Hopefully (he said) the media will give this clown the same treatment Gilmore got.
    
    12 0
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    October 17, 2019 4:59pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Who…… 🙂
    
    1 1
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    October 17, 2019 9:03pm
- Tall Man
  
  As someone said earlier…. he’s a POS. What an astute person that commenter must be 🙂
  
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  October 17, 2019 4:42pm
- niggly
  
  So this so-called MP assaulted a member of the public?
  
  So far I have heard Winston defend this turkey.
  
  But wait for Jacinda to do …. absolutely nothing.
  
  If that happens she can be summed up as weak, indecisive, ineffectual and nothing but an imposter pretending to do the nation’s most important role … NZ’ers deserve better.
  
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  October 17, 2019 4:47pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Always get the snoze…. Hard to tell a lie when your nose is the size of a Bratwurst………………. A smacked Bratwurst.
    
    4 1
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    October 17, 2019 9:00pm
- chaos
  
  What a friggin moron. Admit you screwed up don’t act the victim.
  
  * Mitchell admits he was booted out of a Tauranga bar late that night but denies accidentally hitting a female bartender with a glass making her cry.
  
  He says it’s a politically motivated attack and he’s the victim.*
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/nz-first-mp-clayton-mitchell-claims-he-s-the-victim-after-being-kicked-out-of-bar.html
  
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  October 17, 2019 7:05pm
MCos

I see Gareth Dinneen, one of the hosts of The 1014 Rugby show has tipped a defeat for the All Blacks on Saturday.
I wonder who Dinesen is picking to face the ABs in the semi?
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October 17, 2019 3:21pm
cmm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116635691/very-sneaky-oranga-tamariki-charges-auckland-dad-110-an-hour-to-see-son

Bleating because his previous criminal offending, gang membership and general demeanor now has downstream consequences.

“Herbert, a former bodybuilder and gang member born in Canada”. So HTF does he end up in NZ?

Most of us Canukistanis are nothing like this bloke.
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October 17, 2019 3:37pm
- Jules99
  
  So, now as a result of going to the media the taxpayer is going to pick up the bill instead.
  
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  October 17, 2019 4:28pm
Swifty

Jobseekers up 10% since last year:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/401188/number-of-people-on-jobseeker-benefit-climbs-10-percent

Pull you finger out of your arse Willie!

Fucken ineffectual blowhard.
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October 17, 2019 5:13pm
Maggie Pie

Now we know!

Sheppard Smith: OUT – Meghan Kelly: IN

YAY 😀
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October 17, 2019 5:34pm
- chaos
  
  Too much information ?
  
  4 0
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  October 17, 2019 6:58pm
- MCos
  
  Only as a guest.
  Trump doesn’t like her either.
  
  2 0
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  October 17, 2019 7:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  Who Dat?
  
  1 1
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  October 17, 2019 8:21pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/116650572/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-puts-work-up-for-timaru-rotary-art-auction

When you’ve done nothing, it is correct to say you need to do everything. #OneTermArdern
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October 17, 2019 6:09pm
- niggly
  
  Surely this can’t be real?
  
  If not two words sum it up: Lazy and pathetic!
  
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  October 17, 2019 7:27pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Did H1 H2 create this?
  Who’s the mug shot of?
  
  The Year of Delivery-yeah right!
  NZ will deliver Ardern the Fail Grade next year if Winston does not implode before then.
  
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  October 17, 2019 7:29pm
- Tall Man
  
  It needs an addendum…. Capable of….NOTHING.
  
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  October 17, 2019 8:20pm
chaos

Someone asked about this the other day, seems there is an update

* Ihumātao protesters shut out of government talks

….. “We haven’t had any direct contact from anyone within the government, or from any higher-level representatives of Fletchers,” she said.

“One of the things I do know, or have heard, is that the government has listened to the King’s advice and has begun having conversations with Fletchers, but we’re really not sure where those conversations are at and are a little bit disappointed that they’re not happening fast enough.”*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/116676277/ihumtao-protesters-shut-out-of-government-talks
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October 17, 2019 6:29pm
chaos

* Wellington public law specialist Graeme Edgeler thinks a video published by the National Party, ordered to be taken down by the Speaker, was “fair”.

Edgeler spoke at a meeting on Thursday of the Standing Orders Committee, a group of MPs who met to discuss reviewing the rules around the use of Parliament TV footage.

Edgeler told MPs he believes the current rules are too restrictive and are not in the public’s interest of an open and transparent Parliament.

…..

Press Gallery chair Sam Sachdeva told the committee: “We seek freedom of expression and freedom of speech and the importance of holding politicians [to account], and it would seem to me that some liberalisation would be needed.”

He said he believes the current rules are “too restrictive”.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/public-law-specialist-says-national-party-ad-using-parliament-tv-footage-was-fair.html
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October 17, 2019 6:40pm
chaos

Whoops Do we have today’s winner for something they can’t deliver yet?

* Labour will:

• Introduce Fair Pay Agreements that set fair, basic employment conditions across an industry as happened with the Kristine Bartlett equal pay settlement. *. https://www.labour.org.nz/workplace_relations_policy

* Labour’s wants fair pay, but may have kicked it beyond the 2020 election*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116661126/labours-wants-fair-pay-but-may-have-kicked-it-beyond-the-2020-election
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October 17, 2019 6:57pm
Jack5

A sizzling obituary of Harold Bloom, the great and reactionary literary critic, is in the Telegraph, but sadly behind its pay wall.

The Telegraph says Bloom defended writers traditionally regarded as great against a new generation of ideologically driven academics led by Jacques Derrida and the Yale “school of deconstruction”, who sought to interpret literary texts in the light of social, economic and political structures of the time.

A taste of the obituary:

…. These “resentniks”, Bloom argued, were responsible for the “Balkanisation of literary studies” …

And:

Bloom asserted the claims of the traditional greats of English literature – Shakespeare, Dickens, George Eliot et al – over “Eskimo lesbian fiction”, “sadly inadequate women writers of the 19th century” or the “rudimentary narratives and verses of African-Americans”.
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October 17, 2019 8:34pm
- stephieboy
  
  Also a trenchent critic of Harry Potter as though 35 million young readers actually care,
  
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB963270836801555352
  
  Strikes me that Harold Bloom in life was a bit of boring old fart.
  
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  October 17, 2019 9:49pm
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/10/donald-trump-ambushed-parents-of-uk-crash-victim-harry-dunn-with-bombshell-meeting.html

Soooooo, why not walk in and smack her in the fucking head… Oh no.. Facebook points are way more important.

Oh that’s right, it’s all about Trump… silly me.
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October 17, 2019 8:55pm
ex-golfer

Extinction Rebellion protesters are not very bright at picking their targets.
In this tweet it shows them meeting a group of angry North London commuters trying to get to work…….and then getting dealt to.
https://twitter.com/HollyJoCollins/status/1184713537232556032?s=20
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October 17, 2019 9:05pm
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: Local Government is talking sense …

Property owners and developers want more councils to be directed by Government under new planning rules … Marta Steeman … Stuff NZ

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116615782/property-owners-and-developers-want-more-councils-to-be-directed-by-government-under-new-planning-rules

… concluding …

… The real obstacles to development were a restrictive planning regime, too much risk on councils regarding building and the inability to open up land for development because of poor infrastructure funding and financing tools.

Pavletich (Paulson) comment on thread (in moderation) …

Local Government New Zealand’s position … summed up in the last paragraph within the above article … is to be applauded and supported.

In contrast, the protectionists from the investor / speculator interests (they are generally certainly not developers) of the Property Council should be ignored.

The real developers in this country should have in place their own representative organisation … allied to the Urban Development Institute of Australia.

Again … the Property Council does not represent the development community, who of course build new stock to compete with the Property Council members investor / speculator interests. Property Council members detest competition !
.
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Dole numbers skyrocketing … Kiwiblog

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/10/dole_numbers_skyrocketing.html
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October 18, 2019 7:21am

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