General Debate 14 September 2019

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kevn

cindyGate
“I’m not trying to build my personal profile”…
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September 14, 2019 8:04am
- CJames
  
  Yes – putting that out in the Herald almost certainly means she is trying to build up her international profile – that’s what happens when you are transparent.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:01am
- cmm
  
  What a fucking liar.
  
  Why do you engage a PR company to follow you around New York if you are not trying to build a personal profile?
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:17am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    It doesn’t matter.
    
    She’s been show to be such an incredible lightweight that no one serious would ever offer her a job now.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:10am
    - record guy
      
      lets be honest she stumbled to power by other external factors – not a legitimate winner with the biggest party vote
      Her benefit was National V NZ First, and the 3 man dislike between Winston and English & Joyce. Probably a few others to.
      By winning this way she needed to prove she is worthy – she clearly is not.
      
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      September 14, 2019 11:48am
      - slightlyrighty
        
        She was opposition leader for 7 weeks. That’s it.
        
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        September 14, 2019 5:06pm
    - cmm
      
      The UN would. They love lightweights. Easier job for the puppet masters.
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:26pm
    - Stephen Russell
      
      Maybe a fish n chip shop?
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:48pm
      - record guy
        
        I doubt that the local chipee would want her either
        
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        September 14, 2019 3:37pm
  - namron
    
    Does anyone know ardern’s timetable for the next couple of weeks? Her trip is fairly extensive – Japan and the UN.
    With Question Time on Tues 17, Wed 18 & Thurs 19
    and Tues 24, Wed 25 & Thurs 26
    It will be interesting to see if Winney is back next week or whether it’s Kelvin Davis answering for ardern.
    
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    September 14, 2019 12:06pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      In maroi, disrespecting the 97% of the population who pay his wages and cannot understand a single thing he is saying.
      
      Be a different matter if he was to say something that would be worth listening to, not much up until now and, I see little changing in the future
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:36pm
      - Nutta
        
        He may avoid Te Lingo. Vagaries of translation caused him issues this week, and it’s not the time for those sort of issues to fan existing fires.
        
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        September 14, 2019 3:42pm
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Well I only hope Kelvin actually knows what he’s owning up to when he answers in te Reo…
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:47pm
    - calendar girl
      
      Ms Ardern never appears for Question Time on Thursdays anyway (I don’t know what that’s all about), so – to start with – you can forget 19 and 26 September,
      
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      September 14, 2019 2:14pm
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      God special k spouting another week of te lingo – I can hardly wait
      
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      September 14, 2019 3:25pm
  - cut n paster
    
    Because Helen has seen it done this way …. UN jobs in New York, needs a profile in New York.
    The application question for the UN job will, no doubt, ask “Are you a good liar? Cindy will need to answer NO in all honesty but cos she’s Cindy who’s knows what she’ll feel…
    
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    September 14, 2019 3:41pm
NZpatriot

Morning all.

I’d appreciate recommendations on New Zealand history books. Wanting to better educate myself.

Cheers
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September 14, 2019 8:04am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Oliver, King and Belich would be good authors of generic NZ history books to start with.
  
  Oliver is old school, so a pakeha perspective
  King is more of your 90s liberal perspective, so a bit more maori oriented, and a bit guiltier, but still a good writer.
  
  Belich is an iconoclast, he is Dalmatian, and pretty anti-Crown and a bit revisionist, but writes a racy tale and he uses Maori primary source material well.
  
  Read all three – then make your own mind up, on where to go next. They cover the ground well, and they have good references.
  
  I wouldn’t recommend Orange – inpenetrable text and utterly partisan in approach. One of the academics showing how clever she is.
  
  The Musket Wars is badly writted (dense and inpenetrable) but a very strong antidote to the proud, environmentally sensitive Maori of current myth (fight to access resources, temperate crops, guns, warfare, cannibalism, slavery etc) all taken from primary source material.
  
  Tim Flannery, the Future Eaters, is also a must read. He talks about the impact of waves of settlers into Australia and NZ onto natural ecosystems, how populations collapsed, and how an uneasy equilibrium was reached, until upset again by Europeans. (actually thats the Australian leg of the journey, for NZ he suggests that Maori society was in collapse when the Europeans hove into view with temperate climate crops, pigs and chickens).
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:37am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Avoid Belich. History doesn’t need to be ‘revisioned’. Other suggestions are good, and if ‘the musket wars’ is the book by Ron Crosby, I found it a good read. The author himself acknowledged the difficulties in writing it as there was not just 2 sides in those wars. I found it great to explain much in the background for Peter Maxwells ‘Frontier’. That’s just my opinions of course, and I encourage everyone to read as much as they want and can about our heritage.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:42am
    - Komata
      
      Brian Marshall@09421
      
      Hear, Hear concerning Belich.
      
      FWIW: When doing my History Degree (at a university which shall remain nameless), several years ago, Belich was treated with considerable derision and was frequently sighted as an example of how NOT to write history. The same institution considered King ‘acceptable’ (but only just), with the proviso that we we not to rely on him a as a sole ‘authoritative’ resource.
      
      Better to read widely and ‘outside’ a specific sphere of interest and develop your own views, while remembering that the current ‘histories’ are usually written to represent a very specific and pre-ordained narrative. They are definitely NOT ‘objective’ and are representative of the old adage ‘He who pays the piper calls the tune’.
      
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      September 14, 2019 10:49am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Yup thats the one. And a very astute point, one we would do well to remember – you’ll be waiting a long time if you think there were “good guys” and “bad guys”.
      
      People were just people, power and politics were just the same as today, only the stakes were a lot higher. Get it wrong in early Maoridom, and your crops were stolen, your kids enslaved and you, eaten.
      
      Maori were just as cunning, venal and corrupt as the Pakeha settlers.
      
      There was good trade in selling the land of enemies, there was a rush for guns, and then a huge expansion (why do you think other Iwi loathe Nga Puhi, or Ngai Tahu never forgave Te Rauparaha?). Thinking the land held in 1840 was “ancestral” is largely a joke. All 1840 did was freeze in place the winners and losers as they stood at that date.
      
      Then there is the guilty secret that more Maori fought for the Crown than for the Kingi or independence movement. That Te Kooti was a murdering pig (or freedom fighter depending on your perspective)
      
      People behaved in NZ just as they did elsewhere. Its the reason why so many French people suddenly were in the Resistance in 1946! Its why Colonialists sold ponies and equipment to both sides in the US war of independence, and the Civil War for that matter!
      
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      September 14, 2019 11:46am
      - lifesgood
        
        I have thoroughly enjoyed reading these comments about what to read to better educate yourself about NZ history. Thank you to the learned commenters. I have read King and Belich. Now I’ll do some further reading. I am absolutely fearful of what children will be taught in school if NZ history becomes compulsory. I am convinced they will be taught the Maori were this happy, peaceful, family loving people until the nasty white man arrived. We know that is rubbish. I agree with the comment above that people are people and politics is politics. Bravo for a good debate.
        
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        September 14, 2019 2:00pm
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    So long as this kind of garbage is not taught in the proposed NZ History curriculum,
    
    http://www.celticnz.co.nz/author.html
    
    But by all means, read Martin Doutre’s stuff for the pseudo-history of your collection.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:52am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      If Stephieboy says its garbage, add it to the must-read list. Good Morning Rapist Apologist.
      
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      September 14, 2019 10:30am
    - softail 1450
      
      Septicboy, did the “some animals are more equal than others” down at the barnyard release you early septicboy ?
      
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      September 14, 2019 1:44pm
  - toby1845
    
    The problem with Belich is that he has been found to have created some of his own ‘sources’ (eg, references to letters that don’t exist, and have never existed), and to have misrepresented what other sources actually said.
    
    I have had to check the references used in his ‘The New Zealand Wars’ on many occasions, and have found about 30% have been inaccurate.
    
    I won’t call him a liar, but wouldn’t be at all surprised to find he is a friend of the PM’s.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:59am
    - sooty
      
      That’s an interesting turn of phrase in the last sentance.
      
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      September 14, 2019 10:59am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      zing!
      
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      September 14, 2019 11:47am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/the-penguin-history-of-new-zealand-9780143567578
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:41am
- JibberJabber
  
  Not a History book per se/ a memoir , one of my favourites is The Golden North by George L. Campbell, his recollections of the timber milling towns on the Wairoa River near Dargaville, 1886 – 1905.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:41am
- Monique Watson
  
  Noticed the sudden injection of indoctrination from Labour. Hell I grew up near a Pa. (Patea) Camped on a Marae during High School and meals on other occasions. Learned how to twirl poi’s. Where’s the fucking problem? Do kids not do this shit anymore?
  Know basic Maori phrases but it’s not core curriculum.
  
  Hace calor en California hoy
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:48am
  - sooty
    
    I started school at Kakaramea.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:58am
  - tf78
    
    Monique, I went to a catholic girls school and we learnt how to twirl poi’s there too.
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:45am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    My younger brother was catatonic at home for a week as a young primary school chap probably only 9-10 years old in Te Kuiti -mum and dad could not get to the bottom of why he was like this until they found out his teacher had taken the entire class to a tangi at the local marae ….. forcing maori stuff on people is not always best policy
    
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    September 14, 2019 3:29pm
- Flyer
  
  Michael King’s “Penguin History of New Zealand” gives a good overview – focusses on what happened without making value judgements and is very readable.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:00am
  - toby1845
    
    Yes, I would have recommended King as well. Steer clear of anything by James Belich, Anne Salmond or Tony Simpson.
    
    Michael and Judith Bassett are also very good.
    
    There is a very good book on the NZ Wars being released in early October, by Dr Cliff Simons. I have read the manuscript, and it is very readable, as well as being very fair and balanced.
    
    Disclaimer: Cliff is a friend of mine, and we each studied the NZ Wars for about 30 years. We both completed PhDs on the subject.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:18am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I disagree about steering clear of anything by Tony Simpson… He is a social historian and has tackled a wide range of topics.
      Of course he is of the Left… as many of our historians are, but he has been a long-time observer of how political events touch the lives of ordinary folk.
      
      Once I rang him for information about the Battle for Crete (he wrote Operation Mercury).. he was helpful, generous with his information.
      
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      September 14, 2019 10:21am
      - toby1845
        
        Fair enough, Maggy. Thanks for sharing.
        
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        September 14, 2019 11:15am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        I think the key is to know their biases. Everyone has them. You can form your own judgement having read them. Hence belich is on my list, despite his flaws (and if he made up references, that’s unforgivable). I would never read Orange, and I concur with Toby about Salmond – unctuous PC mush, written in the best academic language – why use one precise word when 30 of word soup will make you sound cleverer.
        
        Kerry Howe and Barrie McDonald did some very good work at Massey too in the 80s. I think it was safer for them to focus on Pacific history though
        
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        September 14, 2019 11:55am
      - toby1845
        
        Thanks Nigel. Re the Belich making up sources issue, I suggest that you read the Introduction in Peter Maxwell’s ‘Frontier’. He gives a very clear example of what Belich did.
        
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        September 14, 2019 1:06pm
    - Jack5
      
      Toby, as Ph.D. student on the NZ wars, do you mind my asking what your opinion is of Vincent O’Malley?
      
      As a layman, he seems to me to overrate the NZ wars’ scale in the context of Britain’s wars. If they were as important internationally as O’Malley says, why didn’t the British send top-line regiments such as Guards or Highlanders, and why no cavalry?
      
      In 1878, Britain’s second invasion of Afghanistan comprised an army of about 50,000. The NZ campaigns were small compared with this.
      
      Leftist historians like O’Malley will likely be commissioned by Labour to create indoctrination material for use in schools. This is going to be a thriving industry for Lefties and Maori and other oral historians.
      
      Regardless, this battle is really for another day. Lewd, lusty, lecherous, lascivious Labour seems to be stoking it to send up a smoke screen over its scandals.
      
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      September 14, 2019 10:35am
      - toby1845
        
        His treatment of the Waikato War of 1863-64 lacks balance, particularly his discussion of Rangiriri and Rangiaowhia, where he has completely swallowed Belich’s line.
        
        The NZ Wars were quite significant in the context of 19th British warfare. While it is true that the so-called ‘elite’ units of the British Army didn’t fight here, the fact is that they didn’t ever fight in many places other than Europe.
        
        NZ was unsuitable for cavalry. Although General Cameron did raise a mounted colonial force (the Colonial Defence Force cavalry) as part of his preparation for the Waikato campaign, this was to be used for scouting and carrying despatches, rather than as a battlefield manoeuvre unit.
        
        While you correctly note that the British commitment in NZ, remember to allow for scale. The British invasion of Waikato in 1863 involved a force one-fourth the size of that which invaded Afghanistan in 1878, even though the Waikato theatre was about 5% of the size of Afghanistan, and the Kingites could only ever field about 800 warriors at any given time. In relative terms, it would be like an army of 2 million invading NZ today.
        
        I could go on, but I’m working on a very small screen. Hope this helps though.
        
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        September 14, 2019 3:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        ? Thank you, Toby.
        
        It would be good if, when teaching NZ history to primary school kids, instruction included a simple guide to the techniques of researching and writing history.
        
        We don’t want kids to swallow historical works as dogma never to be challenged.
        
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        September 14, 2019 5:38pm
      - BrownSnake
        
        NZ wars Christ you are Tragic
        Maori practiced a form of Trench warfare for nearly 800 years.
        
        Why on many occasions they gave the Colonials
        the good ole fashioned A r s e Kicking they quite rightly deserved.
        
        Get off you Fat bloated over weight middle NZ
        backside and walk around any of the Many Volcanoes in Auckland
        
        The evidence of trenching and fortification is all there
        
        ihumatao
        
        What ever your opinion is on that (and to be clear
        to all the left right and centre I DO NOT CARE for anyones
        opinion it – it is what it is)
        and if you knew NZ history before the controversy
        you would have already known
        
        It is significant because people where there
        in an earlier period of NZ History.
        When they did not need trenches and fortifications
        to protect themselves.
        
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        September 14, 2019 5:41pm
  - Jack5
    
    Balance the “recent” historians – Michael King included – with some of the old time accounts. Remember that many recent historians are, or were, grinding their Leftist axes.
    
    For a colonial view on the land wars, look at Wikipedia (link below) on von Tempsky for a start.
    
    For a general pre-revisionist view, the Hamlyn magazine series, which many folk collected in folders, may still be available at second-hand book stores. The famous J.C. Beaglehole was head of the advisory board on that, so it can’t be too bad.
    
    The Leftists and oral-history fanatics will overlook the regional histories that tell how settlers created a Western trading economy, and there are general economic histories worth looking at.
    
    Above all, remember that history writing is not a science, and that at present we are in a Leftist, over-correcting, pro-indigenous, pro-oral source, anti-Western trend that is international.
    
    There are tens, scores of history books over many wider fields than the revisionists are mining.
    
    Von Tempsky:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavus_von_Tempsky
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:38am
    - BrownSnake
      
      Von Tempsky was a D head and a show pony
      who got eaten
      
      Alexander the Great
      
      Genghis Khan
      
      If you need to study real Warriors
      
      Maybe Patton
      
      But we all know who killed him
      
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      September 14, 2019 6:46pm
  - harvey wilson
    
    Second the recommendation for Kings books .
    
    Elsdon Best and James Cowan are entertaining old school writers
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:38am
- Rodney Randall
  
  Te Wiremu Henry Williams Early Years in the North
  
  http://www.unitybooksonline.co.nz/nz-non-fiction/maori-history/te-wiremu-henry-williams-early-years-in-the-north
  
  “This is the story of the Reverend Henry Williams, beginning the day he arrived in New Zealand in 1823, a 30-year-old retired Navy lieutenant now a Church Missionary Society missionary. Through his private journals and letters he wrote to family and his superiors in England, Henry Williams tells his own story from his arrival in the Bay of Islands until the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi. This eye-witness account covers almost twenty years of Henry Williams’s daily life – his trials and successes, travels with Maori, peacemaking actions, the relationships he built with Maori and his involvement in the Treaty of Waitangi.”
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:18am
- Rodney Randall
  
  https://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/This-Horrid-Practice-Paul-Moon/9780143006718
  
  This Horrid Practice
  the Myth and Reality of Traditional Maori Cannibalism
  By Paul Moon
  
  “This Horrid Practice uncovers an unexplored taboo of New Zealand history – the widespread practice of cannibalism in pre-European Maori society. Until now, many historians have tried to avoid it and many Maori have considered it a subject best kept quiet about in public. Paul Moon brings together an impressive array of sources from a variety of disciplines to produce this frequently contentious but always stimulating exploration of how and why Maori ate other human beings, and why the practice shuddered to a halt just a few decades after the arrival of Europeans in New Zealand. The book includes a comprehensive survey of cannibalism practices among traditional Maori, carefully assessing the evidence and concluding it was widespread. Other chapters look at how explorers and missionaries saw the practice; the role of missionaries and Christianity in its end; and, in the final chapter, why there has been so much denial on the subject and why some academics still deny that it ever happened. This Horrid Practice promises to be one of the leading works of New Zealand history published in 2008. It is a highly original work that every New Zealand history enthusiast will want to own and read.”
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:29am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Long pork as food was once taught in primary school. A was the necessity for Maori to seek protection through Queen Victoria as revenge had gotten out of control with the availability of muskets.
    
    The truth was a little unpalatable and was eventually disappeared. Bring it on again. Let’s also consider with it the charges due to us for the economic development provided to those Island Tribes.
    
    If the COL wish to disturb the peace they need no lessons. They are setting NZ up at present for the “Water Wars”.
    
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    September 14, 2019 12:12pm
- BrownSnake
  
  ‘History of New Zealand and Its Inhabitants’
  
  Is probably essential reading because the British
  Government set out to destroy nearly every copy
  world wide – it is a pretty accurate portrayal
  a couple of minor errors but
  
  I have read it and it is a worthwhile read
  
  Scott Simon talks to John Crockett, who just translated from Italian a 19th Century book about British colonialism in New Zealand, which the British government suppressed, and then destroyed, when it was first published. The book, called History of New Zealand and Its Inhabitants is a scathing critique of the effects of British colonialism on the native Maori people. It was written by an Italian missionary named Dom Felice Vaggioli
  
  https://www.amazon.com/Dom-Felice-Vaggioli/s?k=Dom+Felice+Vaggioli
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:43am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Written by an Italian? – Must be good. Viva il Duce!
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  “Tangata Whenua – An illustrated history” tells the story of Maori arriving, surviving and thriving in NZ.
  
  The first section (Atholl Anderson) deals with the Earliest migrations of humans into the Pacific, through to the first arrivals into NZ, the first settlements, emergence of Maori society, first contact with Europeans.
  
  The second section (Judith Binney) covers the period 1820-1920 and deals with the various interactions between Maori and Europeans.
  
  The third section (Aroha Harris) deals with Maori Society 1920- 2014.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:43am
- BrownSnake
  
  The Fox Boy
  
  Is a Brilliant Truth is stranger than Fiction read
  about New Zealands first Maori Lawyer
  
  Captured on a illegal raid as a child in the Taranaki
  
  I will not spoil it but his re uniting with Brother
  at Parihaka
  
  GREAT BOOK
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/jul/28/historybooks.highereducation
  
  You will gain insights into the Taranaki Wars
  and also the passive resistance movement
  
  Essential reading to be honest
  
  https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1026990.The_Fox_Boy
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:49am
- DigNap15
  
  There are hundreds of books on pre maori and early maori history.
  More than on the Romans , Persians and Greeks and other similar cultures.
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:07am
- BrownSnake
  
  Essential to at Least Read
  The History of the NZ Maori Battalion
  and some NZ Military History
  
  Like Sparta we were once a proud Soldering
  Nation
  
  My Greek Friend refers to the ANZACS as
  The Spartans
  
  Note: NZ Maorie first served in Combat roles
  with Australia they were initially not allowed to
  
  Some ( a few) left in disgust and joined the Aus Army. One actually served in the Aus Light horse.
  
  I had the pleasure of meeting some of their descendants (he was attending all the 100th year ceremonies) and made a great new friend.
  
  <
  Go, tell the New Zealanders, stranger passing by
  That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.
  
  WW1 was a Holocaust for NZ as it was for Aus
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:07am
- BrownSnake
  
  VOICES OF GALLIPOLLI
  Maurice Shadbolt
  
  Essential
  
  If you want the truth?
  If you want it straight from the horses mouth
  
  It is transcribed interview of survivors
  
  The NZ Army Captured Chunik Bair and were
  shelled off it by the british Navy
  
  Thing like that were censored for 100 years
  
  Pretty Easy to get a Paper Back of that off trade
  
  Get the one with the painted portrait done by a famous NZ artist
  
  https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/8087871-voices-of-gallipoli
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:14am
  - Jack5
    
    Mmm, BrownSnake … so you contracted post-traumatic stress disorder from reading war books? ?
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:35am
    - BrownSnake
      
      Did you spend the night with the sheep jack
      where they a bit rough with you and did they kick
      your small gonads
      
      JACK 5 GO AND FF YOURSELF
      
      SHEEP LOVER
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:42pm
- tranquil
  
  Someone on this blog recently posted an *excellent* comment about the true story of the teaching of English vs Maori in our schools in the early 20th century.
  
  I think the comment mentioned Sir Apirana Ngata and a couple of other prominent Maori leaders of the time.
  
  If you could find a book containing *that* material, it could be a really good read.
  I’d love to read it *myself* as I’m convinced that the Leftists have completely reversed the true story.
  
  I have a suspicion that if children *were* spanked for speaking Maori at school, it may well have been on the instructions of *Maori* leaders, wanting their children to learn the widely-used-globally language of English.
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:30am
- Antoine
  
  Mr Explorer Douglas
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:50am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Ask Kris Fafoi. He was there when Jesus was born.
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:07am
- Billy Collins
  
  What’s everyone’s thoughts on the Maori history book, Tangata Whenua?
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ve read the 1st section thoroughly and it’s the best popular account you are going to get of NZ’s prehistory at the moment.
    
    I’ve delved in and out of the other 2 sections.
    All readable and well illustrated/resourced.
    
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    September 14, 2019 1:08pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Hi Maggs – you asked yesterday what the name of the early NZ history book was that my partners mum was reading? She has just txt me to say it’s called ‘Road from Rosehall’,
      
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      September 14, 2019 1:53pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Tell your mother-outlaw txs…
        
        But Scots’ immigrant stories aren’t novel to me…
        
        I’d probably be more taken with reading a provincial history of immigrants from other colonies.
        
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        September 14, 2019 9:27pm
- ChristineY
  
  Early Travellers of New Zealand, edited by Nancy M Taylor is a collection of diaries of European explorers with their Maori guides and bearers. Some of the explorers are Colenso, Selwyn, Heaphy and Brunner. The expeditions cover many parts of New Zealand from the Bay of Islands to Southland and date from the 1840’s.
  These diaries are a day to day record of what the explorers saw and experienced in their interaction with Maori communities around the country. So there is no 3rd party interpretation of Maori life in those places and time.
  You’re more likely to be able to get this from a library than buy it.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:03pm
- Tall Man
  
  Te Wiremu is a must.
  
  It is in the “definitely do not read” category of the pc history changers.
  
  It is a very revealing book using Henry Williams’ own words.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:35pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Canoes of Aoetearoa
  
  Oral Histories of Canoe Visits
  
  Over 200 in the 800 approx years or Maorie
  Occupation
  
  Vikings of the Sun Rise
  
  Any Paper by the Polynesian Voyaging Society
  
  https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Children-Maui-Filipino-Tattoos/dp/1492768685
  
  Essentially almost identical Culture to Maori
  
  The Pacific Ocean is 1/3 of the Globes Surface Area
  
  It has its own History Histories
  
  and NZ is just a part of it
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:45pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Look up Michael Joseph Savage
  
  and his time in Victoria Australia
  
  Born in Benalla Victoria
  same as Ned Kelly
  similar circumstances
  
  You will see why he reformed as much as possible
  the useless corrupt incompetent hopeless
  British System for the Benefit of all New Zealander.
  
  The Fat useless corrupt cowards of the Left Right and Centre Bag him.
  
  They have undone all his work.
  
  NZ has the child murder and poverty rate to prove it.
  
  NZ as a Country no longer exists.
  
  IT IS A FARCE a JOKE
  
  If you study the History of Pacific
  
  Invasion comes in Wave
  
  The Next one is coming
  
  I will have 3 bases
  
  To Weather the coming Storm
  
  My Family will Survive.
  
  You are going into the Hangi Pits
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:00pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Look up how Much Revered in NZ
  
  Samuel Marsden
  
  The White Slaver
  
  Was Mocked in Australian Newspapers
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:02pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Look up Cooks and Kupes visit to Mercury Bay
  
  800 years apart
  
  and about 800 meters
  
  Ask Maori who were the Fair skinned friendly
  red Haired aboriginals made note of in that oral
  History?
  
  Note his description of how to get to NZ
  are clear and where to settle
  
  So if the geographic information was accurate
  enough for them to all “be hera” what about
  the other little details?
  
  Taranaki
  
  The most fertile place he named quite a few
  places and planted trees there
  
  Taranaki is where they settled first
  
  The Karakia of the Tainui Canoe
  being hauled through auckland
  to go through the Manakau Harbour
  
  or Part of it is in the original
  All Black Haka
  
  Karakia prayer Canoe hauling chant
  call it what you like it is a link to the past
  
  One step 2 steps
  The Sun Rises
  
  The english translation here is not that good
  
  Nāna ne I tiki mai whakawhiti te rā …who summons the Sun and makes it shine on us!
  A Upane! Ka Upane! Ride now! Ride now!
  A Upane Kaupane” Take the first step!
  Whiti te rā,! Let the sunshine rise
  
  WALK TOWARDS THE LIGHT
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:14pm
- noskire
  
  The Defenders of New Zealand by Thomas Gudgeon – 1887. Still online here: http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document/?wid=2188&action=null, but likely to be removed soon.
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:23pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Look up the History of the American
  First Marine Division
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Division
  
  They are Basically the only reason NZ now exists as a country. Sick Pathetic joke that it now is.
  
  Go to Stony Batter Waiheke
  and go into the bunkers down deep.
  
  Look at how deep the Bunkers are
  that was American HQ on an Island
  So the Civilian Population
  
  Would not hamper operations if and when NZ
  had to be abandoned and its people slaughtered and enslaved as they all no doubt will be in the
  next pacific War (Coming to a country near you soon)
  
  And the Commos are disarming the population
  in preparation under instruction of their
  Fat Commo puppet masters
  
  IMHO They legalised prostitution made the place Nuclear Free for the Socialist Scum Puppet Masters as well
  
  No such thing as an original thought from the left
  
  Mind you now one has to invade any more.
  The place has already been sold down the toilet by left right and centre.
  
  Auckland to Guadalcanal
  back to Melbourne
  
  Adopt the State Flag of Victoria
  when Victoria stood for something
  
  It references the Eureka Rebellion
  and the complete rejection of the corrupt
  useless backward British system of slavery
  theft and exploitation you sheep lovers are
  so God Damned fond of.
  
  Tragic truly pathetic bunch you are
  Christ help us all.
  
  New Zealander of the Last Century
  Born in Australia
  
  NZ what a FN joke
  
  Aus was meant to fall and NZ was not far behind it.
  
  There are the remains of polynesian forts
  near WW2 pill boxes all through NZ
  if you open your eyes and look around
  
  NOTHING CHANGES
  it just repeats in different ways
  
  The History of the Pacific
  and its Warfare is Brutal and Barbaric
  
  I mean while you are onto History
  
  Look up the Trade of preserved heads for Muskets
  between Australian and NZ
  
  Yeah Mate well before what happened in
  Syria NZ was onto it?
  
  Trial of the Cannibal Dog on Cooks
  3 Voyages through the Pacific is a good read
  
  History the Current Governments
  Set of officials lies and BS
  
  If you like Pacific History as well as NZ History
  
  Look up who the Americans basically designed
  a certain round to stop in the
  Phillipines?
  
  And you will get how History Repeats
  
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  September 14, 2019 5:32pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Don’t forget that Many Maori visited
  
  Marsden the white slaver in Australia
  when Australia was a British White Slave Colony
  
  to get instructions on how to brutalise and enslave
  their own people as he had brutalised and tortured people
  
  Hell they even have a land claim for a bit of
  Paramata FFS
  
  Have a dig around these people are all and still
  are the dodgiest pack of bastards you can find
  
  https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2019/08/23/nz-maori-minister-urges-rangihou-people-think-again-after-sydney-land-claim
  
  <
  Crown says the block of land in the heart of Parramatta was gifted to her ancestor King Te Ruki Kawigi of Ao Tearoa in 1811.
  
  Recorded histories of Maori visits to Parramatta agree British pastor Samuel Marsden gifted a portion of his farmland to the Rangihou people for a limited amount of time before it reverted back to his ownership.
  
  Lots
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Marsden
  
  TOTAL PACK OF CORRUPT GUTLESS
  BASTARDS
  
  In 1795, Governor John Hunter made the chaplains magistrates. Marsden's role as magistrate at Parramatta, attracted criticism in his lifetime.
  
  History has remembered Marsden as the "Flogging Parson",
  
  with contemporaries claiming that he inflicted severe punishments (notably extended floggings), even by the standards of his day. This view of Marsden is disputed in some circles as part of an anti-clerical writing of history, in turn attributed to a dislike of Roman Catholics and the Irish.[citation needed]
  
  Joseph Holt, who was transported to Sydney following his negotiated surrender after the Irish Rebellion of 1798, gave vivid account in his memoirs of the search for Irish plotters in which he was arrested. Marsden was held to be involved in this secret action by the authorities. Holt himself was released but witnessed the fate of others. He related: "I have witnessed many horrible scenes; but this was the most appalling sight I had ever seen. The day was windy and I protest, that although I was at least fifteen yards to the leeward, from the sufferers, the blood, skin, and flesh blew in my face", as floggers "shook it off from their cats" (referring to the cat-of-nine-tails scourging lash). He continued "The next prisoner who was tied up was Paddy Gavin, a young lad about twenty years of age; he was also sentenced to receive three hundred lashes. The first hundred were given on his shoulders, and he was cut to the bone between the shoulder-blades, which were both bare. The doctor then directed the next hundred to be inflicted lower down, which reduced his flesh to such a jelly that the doctor ordered him to have the remaining hundred on the calves of his legs …. 'you shall have no music out of my mouth to make others dance upon nothing'.
  
  Yes such a good representative of the British Crown
  
  Joke that that is
  
  Marsden was a ignorant pig, a coward, a slaver
  a sadist and a torturer.
  
  Someone no doubt held in highest regard in NZ History.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:58pm
igm

If this is the calibre of dork thinking he is a journalist then Fairfax are definitely “Stuffed”.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115755229/this-was-a-first-i-used-te-reo-in-journalism-it-was-extraordinary-and-i-got-a-haircut
Not too long ago this loser would not have even made the grade as a copy holder in a provincial/community reading room!
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September 14, 2019 8:04am
- Monique Watson
  
  Def’n of a ‘haircut’ from Urban Dictionary:
  
  A reduction in pay or loss of money.
  
  “During the divorce, she gave him a good haircut.”
  
  I actually think it’s a well written and researched piece.
  It’s good to find a passion for language and teach yourself or join classes.
  
  But it’s not part of Core curriculum.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:53am
  - igm
    
    “Haircut” is also a term used for flicked speedos in Jap imports.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:43am
- Rodney Randall
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/102044968/defamation-trial-stuff-ceo-says-she-wouldve-published-controversial-columns
  
  “She rejected claims staff cuts over recent years had contributed to declining professional standards at Stuff, partly because the cuts allowed the company to “invest more in quality journalism”, including training for journalists.” – Sinead Boucher CE Stuff.
  
  STUFF = Quality Journalism TUI!
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:07am
- John Warren
  
  Joel Maxwell’s bigoted, hate-filled columns were one of the reasons (but just one, mind) why I stopped reading Stuff. He is a first class [Mod: deleted].
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:10am
  - igm
    
    He epitomises the term “Sickly White Liberal Loser”.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:11am
oldpark

Was wondering why Australians continue to make jokes about NZs. The latest joke yesterday came from the leader of the also ran Australian Labor Party. A wee man called Albert Albanese said,wait for it. The Peters selected M/s Ardern as NZs PM,was a” Role Model for World Leaders”.I kid you not.
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September 14, 2019 8:09am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Time to send Albanese to Albania.
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:09am
Yvette

“My view and my focus is on getting this process right for the complainants” – Ardern, Newshub video

The Prime Minister had sought feedback. One complainant showed Newshub an email Ardern had sent to Labour members. “Firstly, my apologies it’s taken a few days to get this to you,” the email says.
“If you wish to talk to someone specifically about the allegations… please contact our General Secretary.
“If you have any questions or any feedback, do drop me a line at her Labour address.”
– Newshub

While the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result [1] as could be Ardern’s setting up a second inquiry because the first failed, she seems to be taking the insanity further in becoming personally involved with the complainants, so utterly dispensing with the principle she, herself, and Andrew Little have internationally argued in the Grace Millane case, that simply knowing the offender’s name may result in a mistrial or aborted trial.

Is Ardern – ensuring her own close involvement in a sexual assault case – committing political suicide?
And if the accusations are not quite true what bearing does that have one what Ardern is perhaps illegally doing – exposing herself and the office of Prime Minister to a total misjudgement – figuratively and perhaps literally?

[1] saying : usually attributed to Albert Einstein
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September 14, 2019 8:10am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  She just doesn’t get it at all, does she.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:45am
- cmm
  
  There is only one way to get the process right for the complainants. Stop treating it as an internal matter.
  
  Tell them it is Ok to go to the cops and support them through that.
  
  Tell them that any bullying or inducement is illegal and that if any is suspected then that will be reported to the cops.
  
  Tell them that this is not a Pardy Matter, but a criminal matter and the cops are being called in to investigate.
  
  No more QCs, PR or other bullshit.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:21am
- rouppe
  
  “My view and my focus is on getting this process right for the complainants” – Ardern, Newshub video
  
  The process is only part of it. What’s getting dropped like a hot potato is the outcome.
  
  With the Labour Summer Camp, the offender has gotten away with an assault charge, the sexual nature will be buried, and there’s still the possibility that he’ll get a discharge without conviction.
  
  With the Labour Leaders office this guy gets to walk away with a payout. I think the likelihood of criminal charges being brought to bear are now nil.
  
  How is this a good outcome for the victims? Where is the validation that they were wronged, and the offender has been punished?
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  You’re correct. Ardern has no concept of justice or the maintenance of it. She’s a one woman Queen.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:18pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Has Jacinda read her emails?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-was-sent-email-by-alleged-sexual-assault-victim.html
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September 14, 2019 8:10am
- JibberJabber
  
  Only if they`re written in crayon.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:11am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    OR from some criminal in a jail.
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:10am
- All_on_Red
  
  Was Ardern at this Council meeting in February?
  ‘In February, the party formally agreed to look into the staffer’s behaviour. This had to be signed off by its 22-member New Zealand Council. Ardern and deputy leader Kelvin Davis are both on the council, but have not responded to questions about whether they were party to the decision.’
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115746984/who-knew-what-and-when-on-labour-abuse-scandal
  
  If she was, then she knew then.
  Liar=Resign
  Where are the Minutes listing the attendees?
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:17am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, when I learned of this one I thought the same thing. The question of her attendance is the one that must be answered. And the absence of a denial (with evidence) is damming.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:49am
    - Lizziep
      
      Perhaps requesting a copy of the minutes would be in order, you cannot rely on them to tell the truth.
      
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      September 14, 2019 2:09pm
  - Local Miller
    
    Even if she didn’t attend the meeting, for a political party their constitution must include points about the minutes being circulated within x days of the meeting, and being approved at the next meeting. She is basically claiming she never read the minutes or the action was never minuted.
    Of course the 2nd option may be quite possible. What party council is going to minute they will “investigate the sexual assault allegations against X”? More likely they have a watered down version about “investigating X’s behavior”. All nice and generic to protect all involved.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:52am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Minutes gone missing. Even if she was there, she would maintain the allegations were not sexual in nature. You can’t win against her bro.
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:12am
- mark15
  
  But muh 6000 primary schoolchildren’s climate change emails…
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:26am
- cmm
  
  Only if her email was on TV.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:22am
  - cut n paster
    
    Now that would be open and transparent…. and what an open government would do 🙂
    
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    September 14, 2019 4:58pm
rightoverlabour

Hmm, maybe her advisors had not briefed her on what to say. Its becoming a case of “if her lips are moving”.
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September 14, 2019 8:15am
rightoverlabour

Ohh the Fraser house trolls are out early…. One downtick already.. Come on at least comment, Rapist Apologist.
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September 14, 2019 8:16am
- CJames
  
  Must have been Psycho -he got the early shift with a hit and run. You will get another downtick when stephie wakes up and gets his latest talking points orders.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:45am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Psycho Milt isn’t a Labour troll. I think he’s more aligned to the Greens. He’s definitely an anti-National commenter though 😉
    
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    September 14, 2019 3:07pm
backster

This girl can write and seems to clarify the situation

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?pli=1#inbox/FMfcgxwDrHqVgXrLNgLmGqFLXWsqxGKp
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September 14, 2019 8:18am
- chaos
  
  Are you linking to an email you have got?
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:54am
- srylands
  
  You seem to be posting a link to your email. That won’t work. At all.
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:25am
Maggy Wassilieff

The Spinoff has been contacted over the last few days with other stories that would chill you to the bone.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-09-2019/on-the-labour-party-crisis-and-jacinda-ardern/
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September 14, 2019 8:19am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  More stories? Start practicing your concerned face Jacinda. You’re going to need it.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:53am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Also the head tilts and the monkey like tight closure of upper lip.
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:13am
- toby1845
  
  An interesting read, but Toby Manhire is Red to the core. Notice how he tries to protect Ardern?
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:30am
  - Local Miller
    
    Yes, I noticed that. He’s sure ” I do not believe that he or the prime minister had heard Sarah’s story before, or believed that any of those in the complaint process had alleged they’d been sexually assaulted.
    
    Being very careful with his words, specifying “heard Sarah’s story” and “believed …they’d been sexually assaulted”. These all let the PM off the hook!
    My take is that if the PM had heard a rumor there was Sexual assault it should have been investigated by an INDEPENDENT body (police) and action taken, but there is no way that the PM didn’t know, just based on what was being reported and what Paula Bennett said.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:04am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Why, if Ardern wasn’t aware even of rumours of sexual assault, let alone actual cases, did she tell Labour’s Council on 10th August that they were not the body to investigate accusations of sexual assault?
      
      However this is crafted, she knew that something sinister was going on, even if she did not know the finer details. And that makes all her denials this week rather hollow at best. She is by no means off the hook yet.
      
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      September 14, 2019 3:31pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    If you read what Toby writes, it is time to visit a Dr.
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:14am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I am a Dr.
      
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      September 14, 2019 1:10pm
rightoverlabour

Doesn’t Stuff allow comments on anything? https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115784633/this-mess-will-follow-jacinda-ardern

At least this is being published on the front page.

On the Herald – Nothing. Obviously following orders.
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September 14, 2019 8:20am
- Bill felt
  
  No Stuff stopped comments and up/down ticks when the comments started going against their stories.
  However, Stuffs stories are put on Facebook of which many people comment on. Always worth a look.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:40am
- kowtow
  
  “Doesn’t Stuff allow comments on anything?”
  
  Only on what suits.
  
  They’re no longer the fourth estate.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:01am
  - chaos
    
    They never allow comments on articles that could see a court case. Or on abuse.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:14am
  - MCos
    
    The fourth estate was around for hundreds of years without the capacity to include comments at the end of articles and nobody complained.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:47am
    - rouppe
      
      Apart from Letters to the Editor?
      
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      September 14, 2019 11:52am
  - DigNap15
    
    Stuff seemed to have banned me from commenting on anything.
    Probably beacsue of my emails to them telling them what i thought of them!
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:10am
G152

In memory of Wade Doak.
Never dived with him but contributed to the Dive magazine for some years.
Started off pretty much the same way using old O2 tanks from WW2 aircraft and regulators brought in from the US at great expense.
Thanks for the books, the films and the shared experiences.
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September 14, 2019 8:23am
Maggie Pie

MESSAGE FROM ON HIGH FOR HELEN CLARKE:

“For CHRIST’S SAKE woman
JUST BE GONE!
And leave people THE FUCK alone”
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September 14, 2019 8:25am
- igm
  
  She has never been able to get over the arse card John Key handed her. Like most lefties, she is as thick in the hide as the head.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:40am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  ‘Out damned spot’
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:42am
- septic skeptic
  
  Come on, Helen has just been pointing out that none of this is Cindy’s fault. The mistakes were all by the Labour Party.
  #partyvotelabour
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:45am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And who is the LEADER of the NZ Labour Party?
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:56am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Winston
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:47pm
    - niggly
      
      Robbo!
      
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      September 14, 2019 2:03pm
- chaos
  
  She will be worried that what happened in New York when she was pm will come out
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:52am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Dafuq? Now you’ve got my partners mum calling me.
    Are you able to tell us more.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:08am
    - chaos
      
      A prime minister had to send an Air Force plane to New York to bring back their husband who was caught in an illegal act and booted out. Don’t know what prime minister it could of been, it wasn’t this one, wasn’t John key as he didn’t have a husband. Hmmm………
      
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      September 14, 2019 11:26am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        And you forgot to add that the reason, according to rumour, which I should stress, I do not know if it is true, was that someone’s hubby was caught with an underage boy.
        I have no idea if true, but I did note the strength of the rumour in Wellington at the time and that someone did not join his wife at the UN, but stayed in NZ.
        
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        September 14, 2019 12:56pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Really, Maggie?
      
      Let’s test the Mods’ livers, ha.
      
      Ever wondered why Ms Clark never takes her hubby with her to the US any more?
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:15pm
- MrTips
  
  Helen has much form in covering stuff up:
  Peter Dione
  The LAX incident re P Davies
  Taito Phillip Field
  Chris Carter
  Winston Peters
  Shafting Dover Samuels
  Election Pledge cards
  Everything she ever did has been embargoed until 2062
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:40am
niggly

It’s important to note what Andrea Vance wrote yesterday because it casts doubt on Jacinda Ardern’s statement about only knowing about the sexual assaults last Monday whilst reading the SpinOff.

Andrea Vance wrote:

The Labour staffer attended a Young Labour Christmas party on December 15, and another altercation between him and the young woman took place. One of her friends intervened and says the man threw a punch at him.

Events at that party seemed to have been a catalyst for the complainants, and eventually 12 people raised concerns about the man’s conduct.

In February, the party formally agreed to look into the staffer’s behaviour. This had to be signed off by its 22-member New Zealand Council. Ardern and deputy leader Kelvin Davis are both on the council, but have not responded to questions about whether they were party to the decision.

So who are the (Labour Party) New Zealand Council members?

Members of NZ Council
Senior Vice President: Tracey McLellan
Maori Senior Vice President: Tane Phillips
Women’s Vice President: Fleur Fitzsimons
Affiliates Vice President: Chris Flatt
Pacific Island Vice President: Jerome Mika
Youth Vice President: Kaitlyn White
Policy Council Representative: Rachel Boyack
Rainbow Representative: Paul Stevens
Te Kaunihera Maori Representatives: Honey Heemi and Rudy Taylor
General Secretary: Andre Anderson
Parliamentary Leader: Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern MP
Parliamentary Deputy Leader: Hon Kelvin Davis MP
Caucus Secretary: Jan Tinetti MP
Auckland/Northland Representatives: Antonia Verstappen, Simon Mitchell and Jesse Thompson
Waikato/Bay of Plenty Representative: Rosina Taueki
Central North Island Representative: Alan McKenzie
Wellington Representative: Paul Tolich
Northern South Island Representative: Keir Leslie
Otago/Southland Representative: Michael Wilson
https://www.labour.org.nz/party_info

So unless eg Jacinda Ardern and Kelvin Davis didn’t attend the February meeting, or didn’t read the minutes, or didn’t attend follow up meetings or generally were imitating ostrich’s with their heads in the sand, or are lying, how on earth can Jacinda Ardern continue to say she didn’t know about the sexual assaults until 5 days ago?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115746984/who-knew-what-and-when-on-labour-abuse-scandal
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September 14, 2019 8:31am
- Bill felt
  
  Whether they attended that meeting or not is not the issue. They are on the Council and the Councils business is their business. If they were not at the meeting it is their responsibility to read the minutes and discuss matters of the meeting with the Chair. If an item comes up that involves issues within your office it is your job to find out the details of that issue.
  
  I can not accept that the issue is that she was not told. This should not be the issue
  
  There can only be 2 scenarios.
  1. She is lying
  2. She did not do her job and find out matters that she should have – incompetence or simply laziness.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:46am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Good point
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:51am
  - Local Miller
    
    But would they really have minuted this as “sexual assault”? Not bloody likely! It’s probably in the minutes as “inappropriate behavior”, all nice a clean, and JA can honestly say she didn’t know it was sexual assault!
    I still say she knew, I just think they have been careful to not write anything down that can prove it. Take for example that it looks like the notes from the “investigation” that was done also don’t seem to mention sexual assault, even though Sarah says it was very clearly raised.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:41am
- niggly
  
  Just to add … alternatively, if it turns out that the (Labour) NZ Council meeting in February didn’t raise the issue of sexual assaults but instead simply raised “the punch” by the perpetrator in order to minimise the severity of the situation ….. that could partially explain Jacinda Ardern’s claims that she didn’t know about sexual assaults (although ffs she would have heard it from other sources unless she is too stupid to put 2 + 2 together) but just as concerning then, if not more-so, who are the Labour Party people (plural) that deliberately orchestrated the “cover up”?
  
  If Jacinda Ardern is being “honest” (about being kept in the dark) then she needs to (“do a Helen”) and find out who those people were and get rid of them.
  
  That would finally demonstrate that she takes sexual assaults seriously (within her own party) and for the victims hopefully it gives them some closure.
  
  So ok Jacinda, now’s the time to be decisive and roll some more heads, because if she doesn’t do it before Tuesday when she departs for overseas then this controversy will follow her and impact on her international (media) reputation. But if she is decisive then her media reputation will be enhanced.
  
  Jacinda, it is up to you to act ….
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:08am
  - Blackbob
    
    “If Jacinda Ardern is being “honest” (about being kept in the dark) then she needs to (“do a Helen”) and find out who those people were and get rid of them. ”
    Like she should have done after the summer camp spectacle? Rinse and repeat the same “I knew nothing” mantra.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:51am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It is too late.
    
    She should have done that on Monday
    She shouldn’t have let Davis & Mallard play silly games in Oral Question time
    She shouldn’t be hiding behind QC inquiries
    She should demand Robertson front up with what he knew
    
    But hey, next week she’s away… hoping that her mates in the media will run with some other lovely stories and the RUGBY – don’t forget the RUGBY.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:52am
    - niggly
      
      You’re right, Ardern, in one form or another playing the plausible deniability game, is complicit in the Labour Party “cover-up”.
      
      And her leadership actions to date, including not reigning in her Ministers last week (Jackson and Davis come to mind), has been woeful.
      
      She has said so many contradictory statements the media are now openly questioning her judgement.
      
      (Take for example her saying the QC investigation had been completed the other day but now she is saying it hasn’t even started therefore cannot comment).
      
      Sadly, for the voters and for the victims, the cover up spin machine will continue. Even yesterday Helen Clark waded in (clearly H1 is in damage control to minimise damage to “Brand Jacinda”, the only thing keeping the Labour Party in power come 2020).
      
      Yes the need to protect the Party is paramount (and in Labour Party’s eyes the victims are a liability).
      
      I’m so glad I stopped voting Labour a few elections ago when I finally took notice and realised they were dishonest, hypocrites and just plain nasty simply in order to gain and retain power.
      
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      September 14, 2019 10:22am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      She should not be going overseas next week -would love to know if the all blacks condone her ‘I see nothing’ stance on alleged female assault in the work place
      
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      September 14, 2019 6:21pm
  - Local Miller
    
    One problem is the council is elected by the members, so JA has no authority to roll them, this must come from the party, and even they can’t force a resignation. The most she/the party could do is try a no confidence debate, maybe. But she probably couldn’t do this before the next general meeting of the party. She could express her lack of confidence in the council and ask them to resign, but like Nigel, it would be their individual decisions. Resigning would also be seen as an admission of guilt.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:49am
    - niggly
      
      Thanks that’s all good and fully agree.
      
      But I doubt the NZ Council had much to do with anything, instead no doubt a handful of powerful individuals within the party leadership team hierarchy decided on these matters (and downplayed the issue to the NZ Council), Ardern needs to weed out these people (if she were to genuinely restore Labour’s credibility) …. but of course she won’t do a single thing because presumably some of these same people effectively put her in the leadership role in the first place.
      
      The only other way Ardern can distance herself (from this motley bunch) would be to resign … but even then she wouldn’t want to do so. Oh dear …
      
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      September 14, 2019 2:11pm
- rouppe
  
  Because the phrase “sexual assault” will never have been recorded. It will be :
  * drunken behaviour or
  * inappropriate behaviour/conduct or
  * intimidation, physical altercation
  Something like that
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:58am
JibberJabber

There is an upside to this saga, if Cindy quits and gets her dream gig at the UN maybe she can get NZ on to the UNHRC alongside those esteemed paragons of human rights virtue, nations like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela et al.
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September 14, 2019 8:32am
- John Warren
  
  Not until we improve our poor human rights record. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela have spelled it out already.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:54am
  - JibberJabber
    
    No beheadings in the city streets is obviously where we are going wrong.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Cindy might be up to international Tea lady qualifications but she doesn’t have the nouse for much else at the UN. Thinking can be required.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:30pm
chaos

Labour Party sleuths are desperately on the hunt for sexual abuse scandals featuring members of the National Party. They figure it is easier to fling mud than hold their own venal selves to account. #nzpol

https://mobile.twitter.com/hamishpricenz/status/1172455312432844805
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September 14, 2019 8:46am
Lee C

Is Ardern a ‘Gender-Traitor’?
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September 14, 2019 8:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  She has surrounded herself with dodgy, useless men.
  She doesn’t seem to have any strong, intelligent women to advise her.
  I suspect now everyone close to her in Labour will belooking out for their own interests.
  
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  September 14, 2019 8:56am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Maggy- I read the latest spinoff article in which the writer absolutely believes that the Prime Minister did not know about the sexual nature of the complaints until last week.
    As to advisors: I have a daughter aged in her late thirties.
    If she was the Prime Minister and I had been reading all the lead-up published stories , I would be on the phone to my daughter to ensure she was fully aware of what was going on and to offer some support.
    Does Ms Ardern have any female friends not directly consumed by party politics?
    It is just a stretch too far to believe she did not know about this.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:05am
    - chaos
      
      Her statements the past month shows she knew it was of a sexual nature
      
      21 2
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      September 14, 2019 9:18am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Does Ms Ardern have any female friends not directly consumed by party politics?
      
      I believe her friends are the Auckland “beautiful” set
      (media/music/ fashion).
      
      She probably isn’t too well connected into the Wellington Labour scene.
      
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      September 14, 2019 9:19am
      - kevn
        
        @Maggy… Like Ritchie Hardcore and the Czech crim you mean?
        
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        September 14, 2019 9:25am
      - niggly
        
        You raise a good point Maggy.
        
        Remember how David Lange was disconnected from the (Labour) Party “apparatus” i.e. the organising party structure?
        
        (He didn’t work his way up through the ranks unlike say Helen and was more-or-less parachuted into the leadership role as he was “fresh and media savvy” etc).
        
        You’ve astutely pointed out that Jacinda and her situation is very similar.
        
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        September 14, 2019 9:35am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        And that’s pretty much it – Bollinger and Chardonnay whilst pontificating about the perceived problems of the world and the latest French Arthouse movie.
        I don’t think your down tickers can handle the truth…
        
        2 0
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        September 14, 2019 6:10pm
  - kowtow
    
    ‘everyone close to her in Labour will belooking out for their own interests.’
    
    As in the famous French battle cry …….
    
    Sauve Qui Peut .
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:21am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    what’s happened to H2?
    
    4 0
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    September 14, 2019 3:39pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Alison Mau gets a fawning piece in The Guardian on Dear Jacinda

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2019/sep/13/labours-metoo-moment-eats-away-at-jacinda-arderns-most-prized-asset-trust
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September 14, 2019 8:50am
- Aliog
  
  Mau has made “running with the hare while hunting with the hounds” into an art form in this case…and she’s only running with the hounds because she feels forced into it.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:02am
  - harvey wilson
    
    Alison Mau has pulled her punches continually apart from pointing out the guy was known as a creep within the party but they laughed it off.
    
    I see Willie Jackson learned nothing from roast busters where he referred to getting an underage girl drunk and gang raping her as “mischief “ .
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:42am
  - rouppe
    
    Interestingly I had a short email exchange with her recently. It was because I saw two articles on Stuff with her name on it, one where she (dual line with Andrea Vance) was talking about the staffer, the other about a creep doctor making recordings of women
    
    I asked her why she was so light on the staffer story, and more virulent on the GP story when at its core they are both the same subject matter.
    
    What it came down to is editorial licence. She also has to tread a fine line with what she can say in a “news story” vs opinion piece.
    
    Just context…
    
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    September 14, 2019 12:16pm
calendar girl

Jacinda Ardern’s “dream gig at the UN” may already be in serious jeopardy. The UN could be reticent to appoint her to a senior role (such as that held formerly by Helen Clark) when the news media in her home country have recorded in detail such significant leadership and management shortcomings.

The term “damaged goods” comes to mind.
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September 14, 2019 8:51am
- toby1845
  
  “…..such significant leadership and management shortcomings.”
  
  Attributes that make her eminently suitable for a senior role at the UN.
  
  19 1
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  September 14, 2019 9:49am
- krazykiwi
  
  I have no time for H1, but credit where credit is due, in the ruthless world that is international UN politics she was a well equipped to hack, cajole and force her agenda. For a time at least.
  
  Ardern isn’t in the same league. Nowhere near it. She’d be chewed up and spat out as a vacuous lightweight within weeks.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:59am
  - JibberJabber
    
    I`d suspect Ivanka would be better UN qualified than our Cindy.
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:07am
  - sooty
    
    But the UN beat her into submission, even with H2 looking after her back!
    
    7 0
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    September 14, 2019 11:18am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Clarke is knowledgeable and able: Ardern is a doll.
    
    6 0
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    September 14, 2019 12:36pm
- chaos
  
  The un has had plenty of sexual assaults it has covered up, even trafficking woman and children, child sex rings. Seems to me the UN is the right place for labour mps to go
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:03am
  - alloytoo
    
    truth be told no one else wants them.
    
    3 0
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    September 14, 2019 2:37pm
chaos

*As unlikely as it seems, Grant Robertson could probably sink the prime minister with what he knows about this sordid Labour Party sex scandal.

But to sink her is to sink him.

Now I know Robertson’s coveted the top job on a few occasions, but he ain’t about to be the loose lips that sink Labour’s only ship that can sail through rough shark-infested waters. *

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115795226/mud-stinks-and-now-its-sticking-to-the-people-at-the-top?cid=app-iPhone
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September 14, 2019 8:53am
- chaos
  
  *It’s simply too hard to accept she didn’t know it was an assault of a sexual nature.
  
  Her staff knew.
  
  Her party knew.
  
  Parliament knew. The media knew.
  
  Grant Robertson knew (but can’t say what).
  
  Kelvin Davis heard a rumour in Māori. How helpful.
  
  And even the woman selling the $3 coffees by the lift knew, although Kelvin wasn’t sure if she was talking about the assaults at Labour’s summer camp or this latest one.
  
  And Labour’s ruling council knew too. Ardern is on that body. Did she sit in on discussions over this? She won’t say. Why not? *
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:22am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Duncan Garner wrote that … Jacinda and Robertson are in shit,. Popcorn…
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:29pm
Humble Capitalist

Has a former PM ever had such a big mouth. I thought the nation gave her the message more than 10 years ago
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September 14, 2019 8:59am
- Gravelroad
  
  Desperate times call for desperate measures.
  
  13 1
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  September 14, 2019 9:42am
- MCos
  
  Don Brash never made it beyond Leader of the Opposition, but he’s certainly had a lot to say for himself since the Nats realized he was a liability.
  
  3 31
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  September 14, 2019 10:03am
  - srylands
    
    Don Brash makes considered contributions on public policy. I don’t recall him lumbering in to interfere in politics. For example. If Simon Bridges faced some party clusterfuck, Don Brash is not going to get involved.
    
    Can’t you see the difference?
    
    19 0
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    September 14, 2019 10:32am
    - MCos
      
      Why should Don Brash defend Bridges in ‘some party clusterfuck’? He left National & joined ACT, not that it did them much good.
      Don Brash is now a big free speech advocate, unlike some people round here
      
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      September 14, 2019 6:24pm
Humble Capitalist

As Hosking said many weeks ago ‘what is it about the Labour Party that attracts so many creeps and weirdos?’
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September 14, 2019 9:00am
- niggly
  
  Perhaps we can use a rock star and groupee analogy?
  
  One reason could be because the Labour Party has a very prominent and active youth wing (Young Labour), with lots and lots of idealistic youths idolising the party and its principles and want to join the organisation “to do good” (and fair enough too).
  
  Then like some “perverted rock stars” some “important” party hierarchy then take advantage of this.
  
  The really scary thing is these assaults have likely been going on for years/decades (there have been previous media reports mentioning this) but to hear this is still happening today (and in the era of MeToo) is just so sad and utterly incredible.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:26am
  - CJames
    
    Isn’t there an aphorism around along the lines that politics is rock and roll for ugly people?
    
    10 0
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    September 14, 2019 11:01am
- John Warren
  
  That might be akin to wondering what it is about a vagina that it attracts penises. Sorry, I tried to think of a “cleaner” analogy, but that one kept insisting.
  
  7 1
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  September 14, 2019 9:37am
- herb1
  
  Anyone other than the dregs of society think to much to ever be part of left wing ideology
  
  12 0
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  September 14, 2019 10:15am
- sooty
  
  Birds of a feather, flock together!
  
  5 0
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  September 14, 2019 11:20am
- Nermal
  
  Politics in general attracts weirdos. Just look at:
  Greens
  NZ 1st
  Conservatives
  National
  Christian Heritage
  Destiny
  
  Did I miss any?
  
  5 0
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  September 14, 2019 4:02pm
JibberJabber

A Narcissist’s Prayer

That didn’t happen.

And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.

And if it was, that’s not a big deal.

And if it is, that’s not my fault.

And if it was, I didn’t mean it.

And if I did…

You deserved it.
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September 14, 2019 9:01am
Rodney Randall

Repost from last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&v=6XPQ2xdFUOI

Fast forward to 3:07 sec
“Freenom of Exbwession” ??? – PM Ardern.

More evidence of speech motor coordination disintegration.

I imaging it must be incredibly “Fustrating” (sic) for her.
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September 14, 2019 9:04am
- Scooter
  
  Jacinda Jazz hands.
  
  8 0
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  September 14, 2019 10:23am
lastmanstanding

IMHO Paula and the Nats strategy for Election 2020 should be as follows.

1. Put forward good solid sensible policies. Dont over promise (KiwiBuild)

2. Make some but too much reference to Labour and its mistakes bad governance bad behaviour but dont run a wholly negative campaign.

3. Ignore the Greens and NZF. Dont give them oxygen. Let them fail on their own.
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September 14, 2019 9:15am
- chaos
  
  I doubt you’ll have to wait that long for an election this is just the beginning of stories for labour
  
  16 1
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  September 14, 2019 9:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Paula stands in contrast to Jacinda as a strong woman who is approachable and can be trusted.
  
  It’s clear why the Leftys are spitting tacks over her… Paula is solid: Jacinda is a flake.
  
  54 3
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  September 14, 2019 9:23am
  - John Warren
    
    Paula has come into her own recently. I never really liked her, but lately I’ve changed my mind.
    
    35 2
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    September 14, 2019 9:39am
    - calendar girl
      
      Same here. I think the difference is that she has taken a decision, wisely, to prioritise her issues and attack targets. As well as developing her own strategies for dealing with them.
      
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      September 14, 2019 3:29pm
  - kowtow
    
    I think it’s more than that . Look at the spite for Key from Labour elites in parliament etc
    The best example was Cullen’s “rich prick” snipe.
    
    What the “left” hate is success , but what they hate more is success from people they see as their own , ie working class lad made good , state house tenant made good , single mum made good , minority made good etc
    
    According to these neo Marxists / progressives / socialists these people properly belong in the left tribe but when they go “right” the knives come out : they are class/race/gender traitors . Historically such traitors are the most dangerous to the “movement” , thus the gulag for them . Contemporary western left can’t use the gulag ( fortunately for us) but the next best thing is vilification . This vilification we see all the time , it’s part of what creates the Shy Tory effect.
    
    The irony is much of this vilification /hatred comes from , not the traditional working class cloth cap type Labourite , but the woke lower middle class types who are themselves class traitors to their own bourgeois roots , perhaps the hatred is a form of self loathing that they have and that they redirect at the best of society , people who’ve done well out of their own hard work .
    
    Some of the biggest names in the vile violent history of communism and of socialism came from the middle classes.
    
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    September 14, 2019 9:48am
    - JibberJabber
      
      “There has now been created a world in which the success of others is a grievance, rather than an example.”
      Thomas Sowell.
      
      10 0
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      September 14, 2019 11:10am
  - rouppe
    
    I’d be cautious about that. Kelvin Davis also looked decent when he was standing in front of prisons repeating how heartless national were.
    
    Once he had to front up he collapsed like tissue paper in water. Has Paula Bennett REALLY been tested?
    
    3 1
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    September 14, 2019 12:22pm
    - Raphael
      
      She tended to hold her own when she was a government minister, and when she was Deputy PM.
      
      Unlike Davis who has to speak in Maori to hope that no-one notices that he’s a barely functional idiot.
      
      1 0
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      September 14, 2019 11:42pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Labour is doing a good enough job on their own (at this stage) of compromising their socialist re-election agendas without National wading in and risk making them into the “victims”.
  Hope National has a good risk management team.
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:48am
- srylands
  
  Yes I agree. There are a few stand out policy areas where National could focus on.
  
  Transport. Enough said.
  
  RMA reform. And explain it in simple terms for land supply.
  
  Welfare dependence.
  
  Vocational training and polytechs. What a mess.
  
  Restoring the relationship with Australia.
  
  Restore the centrality of economic growth and productivity to the nation’s future.
  
  Some considered health reform. Abolish DHBs. A big increase in funding for Pharmac. Double its budget over five years. That is easily affordable if you wipe out dopy spending.
  
  A commitment to reduce the size of the State Sector by five percentage points of GDP over 6 years and keep it at that level.
  
  Tax indexation.
  
  There is nothing radical about any of those policies. They would all fit on an A4 flyer.
  
  You are welcome ?
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:45am
  - tranquil
    
    …. and a **massive** cut in Local Government spending. That hasn’t even been **looked** at and there *must* be a billion in waste in Auckland alone!
    
    Also – establish an independent office to be a watchdog of spending.
    A watchdog **with teeth** that could *block* wasteful spending.
    This should have been done *decades* ago.
    
    There is apparently (if Labour are to be believed – yeah, I know, Tui ad) – going to be an independent group that costs election promises.
    Why not make that a *permanent* group and make its brief to eliminate wasteful spending?
    
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    September 14, 2019 2:01pm
    - srylands
      
      That is much more difficult. You would need to codify the meaning of “wasteful”.
      
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      September 14, 2019 4:21pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Greens will be doing well off of Ardern’s failings. Most of the boost in Labour’s polling in last 2 years was from disenchanted Greens.
  
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  September 14, 2019 3:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Anyone in Labour give a Stuff about their workers?

A clear indication that the government’s promises to women are just words.

While it might be unpopular to say, my sympathies go to the many government staffers who are innocent bystanders in this issue. Not only has the work they have done been greatly undermined, but they now must justify to their family and friends why where they choose to work is a good place to be.

And despite what is reported in the media why they should still support the Labour Party.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/398748/government-staff-likely-shell-shocked-after-the-past-week-in-parliament
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September 14, 2019 9:29am
- chaos
  
  Isn’t this looking after her staff?
  
  https://mobile.twitter.com/hamishpricenz/status/1171614763178024960
  
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  September 14, 2019 9:38am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Looking after her “stuff””.
    
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    September 14, 2019 1:05pm
kowtow

Not that it’s needed , but more proof , the elites have entirely lost the plot . “Green” fighting vehicles so they get green recruits.

When the defence of the realm is reduced to this level of pcness you are justified in saying the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

‘It comes as the head of the army, General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, said on Thursday that the current fleet of military vehicles could be the last generation to rely on fossil fuels and that being more environmentally friendly could help the army to attract recruits. ‘

I despair.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/13/army-combat-vehicles-could-electric-three-years/
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September 14, 2019 9:31am
- rockape
  
  When I served the aim of the infantry is to close with and kill the enemy! Not very green!
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:21pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    I think the Greens intend to switch the armed forces over to using vegan bullets
    
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    September 14, 2019 3:42pm
- alloytoo
  
  How exactly are they going to get charged on battlefield without electrical infrastructure?
  
  The only practical solution is diesel Generators…… or portable dams……
  
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  September 14, 2019 2:50pm
chaos

*One of America’s most foremost experts in smoking-related diseases has joined calls for vaping products to be banned until they’re fully tested by the government.

Dr Jonathan Winickoff, a professor of paediatrics at Harvard Medical School, urged authorities to remove the products from sale immediately.

“Electronic cigarettes are a fatally flawed product,” he said. “People are playing Russian roulette with their bodies every time they purchase.”*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2019/09/russian-roulette-top-doctor-calls-for-vaping-ban.html
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September 14, 2019 9:32am
- srylands
  
  I thought there was solid evidence that they were much safer than regular cigarettes?
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:50am
- PaulDunmore
  
  I don’t buy the hysteria. The great majority of the victims have admitted or been shown to be vaping THC instead of (or as well as) commercial nicotine-based products. It’s a reasonable bet that the ones who have not admitted that are lying (cannabis oil is still illegal in most states).
  
  It makes no sense that after several years of successful use by a huge number of people, there is suddenly an epidemic of serious illnesses from the commercial product. Much more likely is that a contaminated batch of THC oil has hit the street. That seems to be what the FDA is saying, although the CDC’s position has been that they are not certain. There seem to be no reports of a sudden epidemic outside the US.
  
  Many in the medical establishment seem to really hate vaping, and this outbreak is a chance to justify new restrictions. Since vaping seems to be the most effective way for people to quit smoking, we should not easily be stampeded unless and until there is clear evidence of the cause.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:18pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  The people who experienced health problems in the US, had vaped dodgy, illegally manufactured and sold substances. That’s no more an argument for banning vaping than alcohol poisoning as a result of drinking moonshine hooch is a reason to ban drinking, or a fatal car accident as a result of drunken speeding is a reason to ban driving cars.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:29pm
Nukuleka

I watched Kelvin Davis answering Paula Bennett’s pointed questions about the Labour Party sex scandal on PQT last Thursday and what struck me was the absurd practice of permitting our MPs to answer questions in Maori. Apart from the problems with the translation the MPs were receiving- was is ‘rumours’ or was it ‘allegations’ Davis said- there was an eerie silence in the chamber during Davis’s answers that were wholly foreign to what would would have happened had he been answering in English, the language that everyone in the chamber understood. And it is important to acknowledge the multi cultural nature of our Parliament in which the lingua franca is English. It’s the one common language to all our MPs. It’s as though there is some sort of unspoken sacred mana attached to the Maori language and to Maori speakers that means one is a cad of the first order if one were to interject or barrack the speaker.

Of course, we know that Davis would probably have stuttered and stammered and shown himself incompetent when faced with any heckling had he spoken in English. Speaking in Maori is the only way he can cope. It’s wrong.
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September 14, 2019 9:48am
- chaos
  
  Nothing wrong with answering in Māori, but on a matter this serious it should of been in Māori followed in English for those who did not have on screen translation.
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:02am
  - Nukuleka
    
    You miss my point about the way in which Davis uses Maori in order to shield himself from real scrutiny. You also ignore the fact that the Maori language lacks the subtlety and nuance of English and therefore lays itself open to mistranslation. If I am in a room with people of various nationalities whose common language is English then I use English. To do otherwise would be unmannerly. Ditto our House of Representatives.
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:55am
    - chaos
      
      No I don’t miss your point as I was just as disgusted when it happened and posted because there were many in the country without the benefit of the translation on the tv as he spoke. The fact is that Māori and sign are an offical language of this country and can and are used in parliament. Every politican has an ear piece to hear the translation so there is no way he is shielding himself from scrutiny.
      
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      September 14, 2019 12:59pm
      - Rodney Randall
        
        Not every politician had a functioning earpiece. Many were playing up including the speakers.
        
        Anne Tolley received no translation at all.
        
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        September 14, 2019 1:31pm
      - chaos
        
        No Tolley didn’t hear a translation to ONE answer and the speaker gave her that answer.
        
        Hon Anne Tolley: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I’m sorry, I don’t have hearing aids but I got no translation. Is that just me?
        
        SPEAKER: I think it’s just you, in this case. I did. Well, I’ll tell you what the interpreter said: the Prime Minister will stand by all her words.
        
        https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20190912_20190912_12
        
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        September 14, 2019 2:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Davis was answering for the Prime Minister.
  
  We know the PM doesn’t speak Maori, so it was all for SHOW.
  
  But the PM was being questioned at the very time that NZ needed to know that she is honest, open and transparent.
  
  She blew it!!
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:04am
  - kevn
    
    @Maggy… Maybe the Nats need to ask JA a question in maori?
    
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    September 14, 2019 10:11am
- Piniwi
  
  Right Nukuleka @9.48 am an absolute cop out that he even stumbled through which obviously had the translators struggling. Better than OQT was the scathing attack on the recent events in the General Debate that followed OQT where even the Speaker had to just sit and listen. Opposition members contributions had contributions from the Government members sandwiched between each one in the language of the week. Funny as this was preceded by House Business from Gerry Brownlee getting a correction along with a sheepish apology from the Speaker on translation of a slur from Davis.
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:16pm
Vory v zakone

From the same media who not so long ago, were putting the boot into Simon Bridges and Paula Bennett…
_________________________
If Jacinda Ardern can’t be trusted as Commiserator-in-Chief… what is she actually good for? After all… Labour and the Greens are already single handedly destroying the NZ economy. If Ardern wasn’t so attracted to the bright flame of international fame, maybe her credibility would not have burnt out at home. All she had to do was protect sexual assault victims in her own party… but instead Ardern and her team appear to have covered it up.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/duncan-garner-jacinda-ardern-could-be-forced-to-resign.html

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115795226/mud-stinks-and-now-its-sticking-to-the-people-at-the-top

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-we-witnessing-beginning-end-arderns-administration

http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/09/labours-fatal-flaw.html?m=1

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/matthew-hooton-says-pms-handling-of-sexual-allegations-a-blow-to-her-brand/#ath
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September 14, 2019 9:53am
Maggie Pie

When this showed up on my partners Twitter feed, it got him wondering just how many Nigerian refugees have been excepted into NZ? 🙁

https://twitter.com/V_of_Europe/status/1172363032921550848
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September 14, 2019 10:00am
- tranquil
  
  Ahhhh……. “cultural enrichment”…… don’t you just LOVE it…….. /sarc
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:05am
- chaos
  
  Not until I get the millions they keep promising me.
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:21am
- Swifty
  
  “We’ll take their bitches and we’ll take their money. To be perfectly honest, we will be the best race ever,” Conable went on. “We are African warriors, they are not on our level. This is just the beginning, black power.”
  
  He’s not much of a student of history then….
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:20pm
  - The King
    
    They keep this up they will be a part of history. Not sure why other races seem insistent on pulling the tail of the sleeping Lion, the last race that did it 135,000 got incinerated in an instant, then for no apparent reason at all a few days later another 65,000 got incinerated.
    
    But hey go ahead, keep pulling, just don’t get upset when the Lion wakes up and tears the shit out of everybody.
    
    Tarrant is but a grain of sand in a long history of European genocidal dna.
    
    Why would you want to dismantle a system that the White man has put in place to stop his own people from committing this horrendous acts? for the love of God, they genocided each other for 2000 years until they got bored and found the rest of the world.
    
    I just dont get it which is why my reaction to Tarrant was meh, what did you expect?
    
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    September 14, 2019 2:16pm
    - Swifty
      
      Hmmmm, how shall I put this?
      
      It seems the gentleman involved doesn’t figure anything he, or his mates, does will provoke a response. A reaction.
      
      He appears to be a very stupid fellow.
      
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      September 14, 2019 5:11pm
tranquil

Just mulling over the idea I had for a phone game aimed at “inoculating” people against Leftist BS.

You would be in a race against Dutschke to catch people. If he catches someone first, they change into a knuckledragger, snowflake or SJW and he could then give them the “Shield of Sanctimony”, “Shield of Censorship” or “Shield of Ignorance”.
These would make them harder for you to “de-convert”.

If *you* catch someone, you can give them the Shield of Logic, Shield of Reason or Shield of Facts, and then they can **no longer** be converted by Dutschke.

It could be set in the places that the “Long March” has gone to – schools, universities, media offices……

I would **love** it if (say) some media people from the Nats, Act or New Conservatives took this and ran with it.
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September 14, 2019 10:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Brilliant…
  -take it to some app designer and run with it yourself.
  I could suggest some images for the avatars for a large fee.
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:52am
  - tranquil
    
    Thanks Maggy!
    
    Yeah – I can imagine maybe a 20-second-or-so catchy intro that “sets the scene” –
    
    “Germany, mid-1960s. German leftist Rudi Dutschke urges the Left to mount a “long march through the institutions” – teacher training colleges, schools, universities, media and government – infiltrating and subverting them to push the Leftist agenda.
    
    You are hero Roger Rightie – your job is to stop Dutschke brainwashing the people!
    Good luck!”
    
    Something like that……..
    
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    September 14, 2019 11:02am
- Tall Man
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoziALuwbtg
  
  Logic is hard to instill, especially trying to counteract “likes” on facebook.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:59pm
pb

Being a dedicated modern lefty labour supporter requires you to carry a massive cognitive dissonance. Swallowing the rape-is-our-captains-new-normal is difficult, but there will be many who are trying. They will be crying out silently in torment, yet good dutiful citizens know they must leave their humanity behind. I expect many will crack. Going to need that “well-being” budget doubled.
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September 14, 2019 10:05am
- Nermal
  
  Being a Marxist doesn’t require intelligence or morals. The end justifies the means
  
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  September 14, 2019 4:10pm
kevn

cindyGate
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September 14, 2019 10:12am
Fletch

If only the election were this year instead of next year. The polis have a short memory and some other subject will likely have their attention next year – although the way things are going, the country may not last that long…
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September 14, 2019 10:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Unless some organisational genius arises on the scene, Labour is going to be bereft of money and committed volunteers next year.
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:48am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Bloody good job.
    
    17 1
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    September 14, 2019 11:11am
  - rockape
    
    The Unions will still be there Maggie, front and center!
    
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    September 14, 2019 12:16pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I think the promise of a good fingering would get steffy in the door of fraser house and psycho has shown an ability to see past a bit of sexual assault.
    
    With those two on the job I think we will see a more relaxed Simon Bridges on the “telly” next week. Should have ardern shitting in her gumboots, especially if the Spinoff run a welcoming piece 😉
    
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    September 14, 2019 12:51pm
- srylands
  
  By next year “some other subject” could be a recession.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115758931/asb-cuts-growth-forecast-warns-economy-could-have-shrunk
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:00am
- chaos
  
  I’d say election before Xmas, and if all the other shit storms that are brewing for labour come out, we will be at the polls sooner
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:21am
  - Tall Man
    
    Fingers crossed but I think the losers are stuck in the trough more tightly than a paua on a rock.
    
    You’ll need more than a few “fingers” to get them out!
    
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    September 14, 2019 12:52pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  No need to worry, Labour will continue to fuck it up. It is part of their process, they just looooooove processes!
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:04pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115699968/big-curries-big-barbecues-big-noise-in-mori-and-pakistani-blended-family

“Harrison-Hunt said it was amazing how similar tikanga Māori was to not only Pakistan principles, but Islam principles. “
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September 14, 2019 10:26am
- Rodney Randall
  
  Are Ranginui, Papatūānuku, Tangaroa, and Tāne Mahuta parked up now in favour of a Monotheist entity?
  
  Calling for a friend…
  
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  September 14, 2019 10:36am
- tranquil
  
  “…it was amazing how similar tikanga Māori was to not only Pakistan principles, but Islam principles. ”
  
  Would those be the same “Islamic principles” that have seen Muslims kill an estimated 270 million people (and counting) in the last 1400 years?
  
  Source – https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:42pm
tranquil

Hi all –
I have a question about the crime of “conspiring to defeat justice”.

The Crimes Act 1961 defines this as follows-

“116 Conspiring to defeat justice –
Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years who conspires to obstruct, prevent, pervert, or defeat the course of justice in New Zealand or the course of justice in an overseas jurisdiction.”
– end quote

My question is – does there need to be **more than one person** involved in such a crime, or can an *individual* be charged with this crime?

The word “conspires” suggests that it is necessary for more than one person to be involved.
I’d love to be wrong on that…..
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September 14, 2019 10:44am
- The King
  
  >Democratic imposed polices as law
  
  >Communism
  
  Pick one.
  
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  September 14, 2019 2:21pm
srylands

Something to watch for on Tuesday. GDP growth figures due.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/115758931/asb-cuts-growth-forecast-warns-economy-could-have-shrunk
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September 14, 2019 10:58am
- DigNap15
  
  Sadly, I really hope its a big drop into recession.
  Then we just need one more and its a Depression.
  Not caused by overseas headwinds Grant.
  But the COl and its anti business, anti farming, anti mining policies.
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:24pm
  - srylands
    
    A recession is defined by two consecutive quarters of negative growth. So we won’t be entering a recession next week.
    
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    September 14, 2019 4:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

It’s Climate Change and Rugby next week, folks.

From Monday RNZ will join more than 240 media organisations from around the world in the Covering Climate Now (CCN) initiative by committing to heighten climate coverage in the week leading up to the UN Climate Action Summit on 23 September 2019.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/398763/climate-change-electrical-industry-s-dirty-secret-boosts-warming
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September 14, 2019 11:06am
- Fletch
  
  Covering Climate Now (CCN)
  
  Government name: propaganda now. CNN tried something like this a couple of weeks ago, holding a seven hour TV climate “town hall” marathon where viewers were preached at continuously. It featured 10 of the Democrat candidates, but didn’t go down well apparently.
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:21am
- tranquil
  
  Yep, they’re “doing a Cindy”…..
  From my comment in yesterday’s General Debate –
  
  “Do a Cindy” – to do something which distracts attention from something bad or shameful that you have either done or been associated with.
  
  Can also be used when *someone else* does the distracting action.
  
  “I really stuffed up that report at work but I “did a Cindy” and no-one noticed.”
  
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  September 14, 2019 11:34am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Oh gawd Maggs – is it Rugby NEXT week?
  Does that mean i’m going to be subjected to that bloody Nigel Yelldon whenever my partner turns on the tranny 🙁
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:05pm
  - chaos
    
    Which tranny is he turning on? Oh well I guess just as long as he isn’t the tranny
    
    10 1
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    September 14, 2019 12:26pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “whenever my partner turns on the tranny”
    
    I thought you’d been spoken to about the visual image that can induce……………….
    
    8 1
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    September 14, 2019 12:48pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Maggie, theres a new-fangled broadcasting medium called t-e-l-e-v-i-s-i-o-n about these days.
    
    Hell, I understand even stephieboy has one in his lounge.
    
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    September 14, 2019 1:11pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      The thing is Bikkie he cant stand the crew that call the game on tele. So he mutes it and sits the tranny on top with Nigel at full f~~ing vilume!!
      
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      September 14, 2019 2:24pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Don’t know maggie pie… I don’t follow sports much.
    
    (Remember, my hubby is the ONLY man in NZ who has never seen a game of Rugby in his life….and he spent 5 years at PNBHS!!)
    
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    September 14, 2019 1:21pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Give hubby a sympathetic pat on his head for me. Maggy!
      
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      September 14, 2019 2:14pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      WOW! my dad went there in the mid 60’s….i’ve still got his old reports and a 5th form photo (Mr Anderson was his english teacher) 🙂
      
      4 0
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      September 14, 2019 2:15pm
    - Pateke
      
      What was he doing at such a young age to make him go temporarily blind?
      
      2 0
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      September 14, 2019 5:24pm
- kowtow
  
  At least they’re no longer pretending to be impartial …….
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:20pm
- mark15
  
  Covering
  Climate
  Crapulence,
  Plebs
  I think I’ve seen that before…
  
  7 0
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  September 14, 2019 12:59pm
Hugh Pavletich

Jacinda Ardern ‘absolutely can’t stay in the job’ if she lied – Paula Bennett | Newshub

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/jacinda-ardern-absolutely-can-t-stay-in-the-job-if-she-lied-paula-bennett.html

This mess will follow Jacinda Ardern | Henry Cooke | Stuff.co.nz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/115784633/this-mess-will-follow-jacinda-ardern

John Armstrong’s opinion: Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of Ardern’s administration? | 1 NEWS NOW | TVNZ

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-we-witnessing-beginning-end-arderns-administration
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September 14, 2019 11:18am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Nothing about housing Hugh?
  
  I never touch the links so your subtext could be hidden in there somewhere . . . .
  
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  September 14, 2019 1:07pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Nationals Deputy Leader Paula Bennett was outstanding within the above Nushub interview by Simon Shepherd.
    
    It is essential viewing.
    
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    September 14, 2019 2:24pm
Fletch

On the back of Air New Zealand trying to copyright ‘Kia Ora’, Ohio State University has tried to copyright the word ‘the’. Yeh, that didn’t work, either.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/ohio-state-university-cant-trademark-the-and-its-partially-marc-jacobs-fault.html
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September 14, 2019 11:24am
Swifty

This song came on in the car this morning and next thing I’m being chased by the cops down a country dirt road!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Y3mnj-8lA
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September 14, 2019 11:39am
- Tall Man
  
  “I done two tours of duty in Vietnam And I came home with a brand new plan”
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvaEJzoaYZk
  
  You got me thinking 😉
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:45pm
chaos

Jacinda Never Lies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0yDrGfn9vo
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September 14, 2019 11:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well, she has failed her Good Leadership Test.
  
  Has she fronted her mistakes?…. Like hell she has…duckin’ and divin’ with the best of them.
  
  8 0
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  September 14, 2019 1:26pm
- namron
  
  Thanks Chaos.
  That youtube shows all the evidence you’d ever need to see how deceitful and conniving she is!
  
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  September 14, 2019 2:02pm
Jack5

Sikhs in New Zealand are allowed to ride motorbikes at up to 50km/h without having to wear safety helmets, and now Australian Sikhs want an exemption.

Hard hats in fields such as construction and mining are also a problem for Sikhs.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-birthday-gift-i-can-t-use-why-amar-wants-helmet-hard-hat-exemption-for-sikhs-20190911-p52q75.html
6 0
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September 14, 2019 11:55am
- Rodney Randall
  
  Have you seen the Turban wearing chap in Chch who rides his Harley around? He looks like he is having a great time. I’m not so sure he sticks to 50kph though. Wonder how A.C.C. works if he is knocked off and receives a serious head injury?
  
  I had to sikh some clarification from the NZTA with respect to religious exemptions in NZ.
  
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  September 14, 2019 3:00pm
- Swifty
  
  It’s the precedent that it sets which is problematic – i.e. laws having religious exemptions.
  
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  September 14, 2019 4:31pm
Happychappy

Well the one we can acknowledge Jacinda for is her skill at bending the truth and today she was at her best again for the media in ChristChurch.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/livestream-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-expected-to-be-grilled-about-labour-sexual-assault-scandal.html
All she cares about is the power she has being Prime Minister and herself , this is not about the victims it’s all about Jacinda and how she can dupe the public into thinking she would never let down these people that were sexually assaulted.
13 2
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September 14, 2019 11:58am
Wired-one

I dont usually call for people to resign or step down. But the facts and evidence show Ardern is lying, so is Robertson and many other people in Labour. Their plan going forward is easy to see, they will shut up shop, give no interviews and allow this to fizzle out. The sad thing is you just know, our MSM will forget about this soon. It’ll all be about her trip to the U.N or some other nonsense. Labour have not made this about the poor girl, they’ve made it all about protecting themselves. It’s time for Ardern to step down.
25 1
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September 14, 2019 12:17pm
- chaos
  
  No the media will turn on her more, so much more to come out and they know she is lying to them, they will take her down
  
  9 2
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  September 14, 2019 12:28pm
  - The King
    
    Hahaha
    
    Will never happen. These people aren’t media they are paid shills. Everything is scripted, yes even the tiny bit of dissent you might be detecting from some elements of media, its all damage control for the Jacinda occupation government.
    
    The end game has already been scripted “Jacinda comes out unscathed” anything in between means absolutely nothing at all, its all ‘dead cat politics’. < google it.
    
    But you already knew this, you just cant admit it yet.
    
    3 2
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    September 14, 2019 2:39pm
- Tall Man
  
  What no one understood was when ardern spoke at the UN her words “metoo must become wetoo really meant “youtoo” ” as she has clearly shown her “empathy” is only trucked out when there are votes to be garnered or international acolytes to wow.
  
  I was certainly not the only one to see clearly who and what she was despite regular “instructions” to desist.
  
  10 2
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  September 14, 2019 12:38pm
  - The King
    
    Ardern in 2 words..
    
    “Toxic femininity”
    
    6 1
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    September 14, 2019 4:30pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Rest assured this is not going to go away. They show collectively they lack competence and go from disaster to disaster; if its not ethical or moral its economic. Ardern also displays as regal from time to time as she arbitrarily walks above the law or suspends it. She is too ignorant to stop or change. Expect more.
  
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  September 14, 2019 12:49pm
  - Wired-one
    
    I hope it doesnt go away, I just believe our media will lose interest. I also suspect there will either be a wedding announcement or similar coming from Ardern very soon. This has been the case in the past when she’s under pressure.
    
    8 1
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    September 14, 2019 1:17pm
- Nutta
  
  Robertson hasn’t lied, he hasn’t deigned to say anything. Unless you consider his silence to be lying by omission?
  
  7 1
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  September 14, 2019 4:11pm
chaos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD84CFw2vO4
1 1
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September 14, 2019 12:27pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  especially from 29min – 35 min in.
  
  2 1
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  September 14, 2019 1:39pm
  - chaos
    
    Oh bugger i put the wrong Link in sorry it was meant to start from there, did check when I posted, thanks for telling people the time
    
    4 2
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    September 14, 2019 1:46pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yeah, I think 29 min of her is TOOOOOOO much.
      
      6 1
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      September 14, 2019 3:30pm
      - chaos
        
        Oh no, did you listen for 29 minutes, sorry, Maggie, get Maggy some of the drugs out of the good cupboard at your work
        
        6 0
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        September 14, 2019 4:00pm
Ruawai

Let’s assume for a second that Jacinda didn’t know about the sexual assault and thought the situation was one of bullying, (which must have been quite extreme bullying to have so many complaints and the employee stood down for 5 weeks), surely Jacinda and the Labour party have handled a case of bullying poorly without treating the victims well and bullying should be taken very seriously and it can affect peoples mental health.
8 1
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September 14, 2019 12:35pm
- wreck1080
  
  Mike Hosking told her about the sexual assault on live radio a month ago.
  
  She knew. How she can now lie about it, beggars belief.
  
  20 2
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  September 14, 2019 1:23pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    It’s like talking to a 5 year old
    They lie to you
    You know they are lying
    They know, that you know, they are lying.
    But they continue to ,lie.
    
    19 1
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    September 14, 2019 2:03pm
- fernglas
  
  What’s the difference between sexual assault and bullying? Both are the exercise of power over another in a way that gratifies the perpetrator and harms the victim. The sexual aspect aggravates the conduct, but doesn’t make it any different.
  
  15 1
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  September 14, 2019 1:27pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I agree..
    Abuse of any form is unacceptable.
    The PM is dancing on the head of a pin over the “sexual” nature of some of the complaints.
    
    20 2
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    September 14, 2019 1:45pm
- The King
  
  No, you let yourself be bullied, then you’re a victim because you chose to be, that’s not on the bully that’s on you.
  
  Toughen up buttercup
  
  This culture of being rewarded with treasure Kings would dream of for victimhood is toxic as f.
  
  That’s why those 2 muslims tried to claim they were at the mosque when they weren’t. Treasure, gold as far as the eye can see.
  
  Now everybody wants to be a victim.
  
  Toxic.
  
  8 3
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  September 14, 2019 2:51pm
chaos

Jacinda claimed it wasn’t until this week she knew it was of a sexual nature, hm.

*On August 6, one day after the story broke in the media, Mike Hosking raised it with her on Newstalk ZB.

He asked her: “How many people have quit your party as a result of this investigation into this bloke who may or may not have sexual assaulted someone?”

Her response was: “I’m going to be very careful answering that question Mike because this is an inquiry and work is still underway and it is still a party matter.”*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12266570

6th of August a media person tells her it may of been sexual, she knew before then, but now claims she only just found out. The lies this woman continues to tell are amazing that her nose hasn’t grown a few hundred feet
24 3
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September 14, 2019 1:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  So she did not answer the question, just said she would be careful. Typical. I watched her in Parliament the other day. Gave answers to questions that were not asked, so as to avoid answering the question that was asked. And the duck was running interference for her
  
  16 2
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  September 14, 2019 3:10pm
- chaos
  
  How about we add this
  
  *I’ve seen the claims but I can’t give you verified numbers.*
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255887
  
  10 0
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  September 14, 2019 3:25pm
- chaos
  
  *Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of the Ardern Administration?
  
  How damaging are this week’s extraordinary revelations surrounding Labour’s disgraceful mishandling of sexual assault allegations to the prospects of the party clinging onto power following next year’s election?*
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrongs-opinion-we-witnessing-beginning-end-arderns-administration
  
  13 0
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  September 14, 2019 3:45pm
  - Swifty
    
    Very hard hitting from Armstrong.
    
    10 0
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    September 14, 2019 4:32pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    “a fake and a flake.”
    
    Armstrong nails Jacinda’s 2-in-1 personality.
    
    13 1
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    September 14, 2019 4:36pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I think it’s one Maggy, real and pretend.
      
      I have never seen a more dishonest two faced politician as ardern.
      
      Even “what’s in it for wynston” is consistent. Everything is about him and eventually for him.
      
      11 1
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      September 14, 2019 4:54pm
- Tall Man
  
  I think she has been so blatant this time even DPF agrees with me.
  
  8 1
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  September 14, 2019 4:56pm
  - Swifty
    
    Take a bow Tall Man.
    
    7 1
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    September 14, 2019 5:41pm
Tall Man

I realise that this has been on here many times but I believe we need to keep reminding ourselves that we are stupid, the gretas of this world are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYQ6eZDXXRE&feature=youtu.be
2 1
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September 14, 2019 4:57pm
Komata

A necessary question, on the premise that an early election is a distinct possibility:

Is Simon (and, inter alia, the Nats), READY to govern?
7 0
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September 14, 2019 5:03pm
- chaos
  
  More ready than the current government
  
  10 0
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  September 14, 2019 5:12pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  I would argue yes. They would effectively just have to undo some of the tinkering Labour has done in terms of legislation changed as, let’s face it, they have basically done fuck all in two years, and they have competent shadow ministers that would pick up from where they left off. Unlike Labour, the Nat MPs are doing a lot of work, just look at Nikki Kaye for example.
  
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  September 14, 2019 5:19pm
chaos

Sigh, cindy just isn’t thinking

https://mobile.twitter.com/henrycooke/status/1172026118859157505

*One of the complaints in this submission is that to report something you had to email the general secretary. PM now agrees that party itself isn’t equipped to deal with the complaints. But the email she sent to members last night suggests…emailing the general secretary*
10 0
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September 14, 2019 5:21pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Sorry accidentally reported this.
  Don’t think suggesting contacting the general secretary is the same as saying that the gs will action the complaint. Where it is now, it is likely to be a referral point to the QC inquiry, or in other cases in some other direction.
  
  0 5
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  September 14, 2019 7:21pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Which hasn’t worked before as that was the previously suggested course of action which was ignored. Just like emailing Ardern was ignored.
    Do try to keep up
    
    6 0
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    September 14, 2019 7:47pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      The problem is that it has been capped, and you for some reason are looking for a gap. If the complainants have signed up as reported to the new method – then they have and your comment is not relevant. If it is shown they have not, we move on to that. If some have, and some have not, or are considering other options it will all become plain. You seem very desperate about interpreting the information favourably to your opinion whereas I am not invested other than out of interest.
      
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      September 14, 2019 8:53pm
Morrissey

Kill the Messenger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6li3S1Aisc
4 17
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September 14, 2019 5:27pm
- BrownSnake
  
  Free the White Wizard
  
  0 2
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  September 14, 2019 8:24pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Fuck off dickhead.
  And the clown Assange can fuck off as well.
  
  4 1
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  September 14, 2019 9:15pm
Inandout

Melbourne cbd this day disrupted by climate emergency people, led by what appeared an aging ex student. The TV was careful to video older protestors, minus mobile phones. However, the Navy had a great parade through the city.
2 0
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September 14, 2019 6:21pm
chaos

I guess adoption isn’t common to some people here

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115802647/greeted-at-the-airport-by-police-invercargill-family-wrongly-suspected-of-trafficking

*An Invercargill family has been left traumatised after a complaint by a fellow airline passenger lead to suspicions they were human trafficking.

Dr Amanda Sommerfeldt and her husband Scott were travelling with their 11-year-old son, Liam, and 8-year-old adopted daughter, Megan, who is Chinese, when they were met by police on the tarmac at Invercargill Airport on September 9.*
2 0
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September 14, 2019 6:36pm
Openmindfulness

311 comments today. It’s like a new world record since 15/3.
0 0
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September 14, 2019 6:59pm
secondcumming

BREAKING….Aljaz are reporting

‘Two of *Saudi Arabia’s* largest oil refineries are ablaze after drone strikes by Yemeni terrorists…..’

Might pay to rush out and fill your car 😎
2 0
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September 14, 2019 7:15pm
chaos

This is worth putting out there

*The terms of reference are still to be finalised as of Friday lunchtime..

So the terms of reference for Dew have not been settled, yet the alleged scumbag released a statement yesterday saying he was co-operating with her and it is underway? Well how would he know? Again someone is lying.*

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-mysterious-tale-of-two-marias.html
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September 14, 2019 8:19pm
Hugh Pavletich

Hong Kong govt urged to act on home affordability ( and learn from Singapore ) … Ecns.cn

http://www.ecns.cn/news/2019-09-14/detail-ifznxzmn1174650.shtml

Economist says city can learn from Singapore how to develop its housing

The government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region should provide more affordable housing for local residents and boost the city’s homeownership rate through innovative policies and legislation. …

… Hong Kong has the least affordable home prices in the world, according to the Demographia 2019 International Housing Affordability Survey. The ratio of the median property price to the median household income, was 20.9 times in Hong Kong, with the home price HK$7.169 million ($916,195) and the household income HK$343,000. That means that it would take an average household 20.9 years to be able to afford an apartment in Hong Kong if there were no other expenses.

By comparison, the ratio for Vancouver, which ranked second in the latest survey, was 12.6 years and that for third-place Sydney was 11.7 years.

A total of 49.2 percent of households in Hong Kong own their home, according to the official homeownership rate for 2019. The levels peaked at 54.3 percent in 2004, but have been on the decline since 2011. In Singapore, Hong Kong’s longtime rival, the rate stands at 90 percent. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
2019 15th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

Housing Affordability Ratings … Median Multiples … All Markets

Australia 5.7
Canada 4.0
China (Hong Kong) 20.9
Ireland 3.7
New Zealand 6.5
Singapore 4.6
United Kingdom 4.8
United States 3.5
.
.
Definition of an Affordable Housing Market … Performance Urban Planning.org

http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/affordability.html
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September 15, 2019 3:26am

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