General Debate 4 August 2019

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Happychappy

You read all of the James Shaw rhetoric over the last day or two and it makes you wonder whether they are afraid his attack on their policy might be hurting.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/395914/bridges-calculated-short-term-self-interest-shaw
We now have just about all MSM praying for Bridges scalp with all the opposition Leaders joing in to help, all this does is strengthen Simon Bridges arguement and points to the Government running scared.
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August 4, 2019 8:14am
- Rob2
  
  Just as the MSM are turning.
  No fawning over the Princess anymore.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:33am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I don’t know about NO fawning, but at least there is less fawning.
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:18pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Shaw’s description of Bridges as someone with little personal integrity was, if anything, generous.
  
  Bridges has no personal integrity and that is the view of 95% of New Zealanders asked.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:43am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Evidence please or fuck off with your stupid lefty comments.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:52am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    What 95%? The members of the very closed and secret Green Party conference being held with no media this weekend Martin?
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:53am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Gee Martin – would you care to explain to us when Simon Bridges was censured by Parliament for wilfully filing a misleading Pecuniary Interests return, or when Simon Bridges publicly admitted benefit fraud?
    
    James Shaw was quite happy to “empower” Winston Peters and Metiria Turei, which makes his hyperbole about Bridges look somewhat hypocritical, don’t you think?
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:01am
  - 3-coil
    
    MW – you obviously have no concept of what “integrity” means.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:02am
  - Ross12
    
    Was “95% of New Zealanders” from a poll carried out at the Green Party conference ?
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:16am
  - toby1845
    
    Marin: talking of lack of integrity, expect an orchestrated campaign against your tilt at public office in a few months. Your Facebook page, and your inane comments here, provide plenty of fodder.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:34am
  - Tall Man
    
    My description of ardern as a dishonest lazy liar is also accurate and of more relevance to the future of NZ than whether the leader of the opposition does or does not have integrity.
    
    Your comments clearly demonstrate both the desperation of the left and their utter contempt for New Zealand and it’s citizens,
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:35am
    - BrownSnake
      
      She is not [Mod: Deleted and warning]
      
      I mean it is nearly there.
      
      A bit more pandering to the Gangs and it will be the worst backward Turd world South Pacific
      A hole of the world and as for Auckland?
      
      Her Patch? do not get me started on that crap hole
      with its “Sheltered workshop” they actually call
      a “Council?
      
      Auckland a backward Corrupt incompetent dysfunctional dump?
      
      Have you seen that sh8t hole when everyone actually tries to use the motorways they finally got
      of their useless FAT a r s e s to build?
      Jesus is this it? you are kidding?
      
      Seen all the P smokers unchallenged on the Water Fronts Sunday Mornings?
      
      Christ where are we Mexico?
      
      Where are the cops? why? do Civilised people have to pay for police and tolerate that crap on a Sunday morning?
      
      It is a bad joke and Winnie the Turd has a full-time job asking for clemency for a Pack of
      Kiwi Fricken Losers in Aus?
      
      Jesus Christ
      When they are not talking Welfare they are talking
      clemency for Crims
      
      How About Economic and Cultural and technical
      development with AUS you know?
      
      Australians want that a shared growing economy?
      
      Auckland had the brilliant the amazing the so so so Advanced for its time…
      Melbourne Class Tram
      
      What did the retards do – pulled them out.
      
      What a pack of Retards Cretins Primitive backward technophobic Retards.
      
      Auckland despite having the most brilliant
      Natural layout is a SH*T HOLE
      an Absolute Sh8t hole because of the lack
      of leadership and Vision of Central and Local
      Governments.
      
      It epitomises everything that is wrong with NZ
      it is a show case
      
      DRUGS GANGS CRIME
      Prostitution now legal for Commie Sex Tours
      
      That is all NZ stands for now.
      
      IT IS A SICK BACKWARD JOKE
      
      Used to be the best country in the World.
      
      Anything anyone with Vision did in NZ
      had been and will be undone by an Ignorant
      pack of Cretins.
      
      I view Jacinda and Winston as
      
      Tweedle dumb and Tweedle D
      
      They are a FN embarrassment to me
      
      It is so bad it is cringe every time they open their mouths ?
      
      Like give me a Bucket.
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:06am
      - Nermal
        
        This post makes much more sense if you just read between the lines
        
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        August 4, 2019 3:09pm
  - Nermal
    
    It’s personally he’s lacking, not integrity
    
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    August 4, 2019 3:06pm
- Shut the hell up you Fascist!
  
  Fairy tale princess and ‘happy ever after’?
  
  Bwahahahahahahahaha.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:58am
- The Feed
  
  Exactly. Bridges needs to double-down. Keep repeating it and have the media toads and left-wing politicians throw their predictable fit.
  
  The result? Middle New Zealand get this message reinforced, burned indelibly into their consciousness:
  
  Part.Time.
  
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  August 4, 2019 6:47pm
Lee C

.
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August 4, 2019 8:16am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Your point?
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:34am
  - niggly
    
    I can see his point!
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:28am
Lee C

Shaw – happy to crawl into bed with Winston Peters.

Happy to say ‘No deal with National as long as Bridges is leader’.

So speak our democratically elected representatives.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/08/james-shaw-burns-simon-bridges-in-climate-change-speech.html
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August 4, 2019 8:16am
- alloytoo
  
  Happy to sacrifice the Kermandecs sanctuary in favour of pretty horses.
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:23am
  - igm
    
    Just another left-wing communist creep . . . they are all tarred with the same brush, including the unelected unwanted and unseen PM.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:41am
  - Ruahine
    
    … and still no Kermadec Sanctuary even though your Party is part of the Government. I wonder why James Shaw? Whale Oil used to have a picture of you showing a forked tongue projecting from your mouth. I think they had it right.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:48am
    - Nermal
      
      Wasn’t it the tails of rats he’s had to swallow?
      
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      August 4, 2019 3:10pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Lets hope his vindictive comments bite him on the arse.
  Nasty man.
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:23am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Shaw is on the side of nearly all New Zealanders when he says Bridges has little personal integrity.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:45am
    - alloytoo
      
      Was Shaw looking in the mirror at the time? Or was he out looking for pretty horses.
      
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      August 4, 2019 9:52am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      See my 9.52 comment above.
      
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      August 4, 2019 9:53am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      How about some examples of lack of personal integrity on Bridges’ part Martin? Has he ever cheated on his wife? Has he ever stolen from the taxpayer while claiming a benefit? Has he ever assaulted another Member of Parliament? Has he watched hotel porn and charged it to his ministerial credit card? Has he bought golf clubs with his ministerial credit card? Did he engineer the sacking of a Police Commissioner through personal leaks to a journalist?
      
      Just rolling out glib cliches isn’t enough Martin. You’re the one making the accusations, so put up or shut up!
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:05am
    - Nutta
      
      Please provide any actual evidence in support of this repeated assertion?
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:57am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Anyone seen Martin? I had hoped he might like to expand on these supposed failings of Simon Bridges’ personal integrity, but instead he seems to have vanished. Funny that!
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:15am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Martine Williams – a xenophobe who hates South Africans.
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:41pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Martin, integrity is carrying through with commitments after they are made.
      
      Shaw and Jacinda made a big deal of claiming wanting to involve all parties in a consensus forming Zero Carbon Bill.
      
      Todd Mueller was National’s representative in those talks. Mueller was participating in those talks and reporting to caucas, despite sceptics in the National caucas.
      
      Now remind me what happened and why Shaw was forced to apologize to Mueller for making him look a twat in front of his National colleagues. It is Shaw who has no integrity and he (& you on his behalf) should be careful throwing around those type of accusations, because there is more….
      
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      August 4, 2019 6:21pm
- septic skeptic
  
  For quite a long time I have heard people saying that Shaw is a nice guy, the sensible facecof the greens, intelligent and someone that National could work with in coalition. Never saw it myself. Looks like that has now been proven to be a load of bollocks and a good thing too IMO. They are dangerous idealogues.
  They are watermelons.
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:38am
  - artemisia
    
    Mr Shaw is attempting to be the male leader in the midst of an ambitious group of women, some of whom are looking decidedly loopy. He is telling us he does have testosterone and mongrel after all. Well he thinks he is telling us that.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:33am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Bridges must feel like he has been savaged by a mouse!
      
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      August 4, 2019 9:53am
      - niggly
        
        Is James Shaw the Green’s version of Bill Rowling??
        
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        August 4, 2019 10:57am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        That’s unfair to the memory of the late Sir Wallace Rowling, once described by the late Sir Robert Muldoon as “a shiver looking for a spine to run up”. Shaw is, at best, a bit player.
        
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        August 4, 2019 1:03pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        At least it was a fair fight.
        
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        August 4, 2019 2:46pm
  - otago-man
    
    I just watched “The Nation” and Simon Shepard asked James Shaw why he didn’t go to the Maori land protest with the other Green MP’s. He said he was too busy with ministerial work, Simon said no you weren’t I checked the ministers diary, Shaw replied ,oh(pause) I was just busy. A bare faced lie, he looked very uncomfortable too. How can you trust anything he says???
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:04am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      All the um’s and ah’s, and pauses, and the dreadful body language hangs Shaw out to dry. Not only was he lying, but he was lying badly.
      
      https://twitter.com/KermysBack/status/1157542322277457921
      
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      August 4, 2019 1:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who is the real fear monger? Shaw: whose ideology allows him to travel with those who would destroy society for some specious Marxist alternative.
  
  Once they erected gallows to cleanse society. If the warmists have got it wrong and promoted their meme for dishonest reasons they must expect an accounting.
  
  The climate has been stuck for over 20 years –the latest “Hottest” is based on a very select set of urban thermometers. There is serious independent concern that we should be preparing for a long term real cold period.
  
  The politicking has to cease. Lives are at stake. The dishonesty has reached the point of no return.
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:51am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    The very likely cooler period will wipe the smug grins of the Leftist Alarmists.
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:46pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I am expecting all will be revealed within 10 years. I have no problem with mitigation and adaptation to whatever weather but nonsense is being paraded as truth. Governance is impossible like that.
      
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      August 4, 2019 5:11pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Fuck off you dementia ridden old c**t! That is all. Why fuck about saying anything nice about a riddled old mind that won’t shuffle off when the last dance finished 8 hours ago?
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:58am
  - sooty
    
    ?
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:07am
    - Rich Prick
      
      Oh, the original comment has gone (I think). It was to do with Mr 6.9% who has ended up running the country. I hate the prick.
      
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      August 5, 2019 6:12am
  - stephieboy
    
    Rich Prick , very deep!
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:41pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      I’ve told you before, you simply haven’t the intellect to engage. Please talk to yourself, and here’s a box of crayons to keep you occupied until another of your lot turns up.
      
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      August 5, 2019 6:16am
- Biscuit
  
  Lee C. technically Jimmy Two Mums isn’t in bed with Winston.
  
  Nope, he has to sit on the chair alongside and take notes as Winnie and Jass get to do the nasty…
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:48am
alloytoo

A few thoughts about the BFD website.

1. It’s slow, really slow anybody else experiencing this?
2. Layout is a little too busy.
3. Reminds me of the paywalled Herald.
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August 4, 2019 8:16am
- kowtow
  
  It’s got good posts , on the Gnats, Firearms confiscation, green bullshit……I enjoy it.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:25am
- igm
  
  It is seemingly getting quicker and I personally find it damn interesting. Cannot draw any parallels to Herald as it does not favourably display any left-wing filth.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:44am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It’s also a clear breach of the Insolvency Act, but Slater and his wife don’t care. They’ve never cared.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:48am
  - srylands
    
    You remind me of ztev. But minus a brain. ?
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:56am
    - Martin Williams
      
      You remind me of all Australians. But minus the humour.
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:51am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Now you’re getting xenophobic Martin!
        
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        August 4, 2019 1:08pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Bullshit
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:58am
    - brett68
      
      https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:20am
      - stephieboy
        
        Rich Prick , very deep!
        
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        August 4, 2019 12:46pm
      - stephieboy
        
        brett68, tell us who in efffect owns Social Media Consultants( in liquidation!) ?
        
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        August 4, 2019 12:48pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        The liquidator is a moron if they think they own the visitors to a Blog
        
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        August 4, 2019 3:17pm
- Bernard Black
  
  I clicked the WO icon on my laptop yesterday just to get the link to the new site, all that is displayed now is a notice from the liquidators.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:16am
  - niggly
    
    Hey do you own a bookshop by chance? 😉
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwF_LnTqLUM
    
    (One of the best UK comedies of the 2000’s)!
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They are still anti-Bridges.
  Site is a dog’s breakfast and load times unhelpful.
  Why bother looking again?
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:24pm
- peterwn
  
  BFD could be down tomorrow or soon after. The liquidator of ‘Social Media Consultants Ltd’ (owner of Whaleol) is on the warpath expressing the opinion that Spanish Bride has improperly appropriated the property of the company including Whaleoil’s subscriber list. Perhaps the liquidator could file papers in court that could see BFD shut down.
  
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  August 4, 2019 3:38pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    interesting. SB is offering to honour subscriptions paid to WO. Surely that is removing some liabilities from the reciever, not assets? Else doesn’t the receiver have to refund subscribers with time left on their subs?
    
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    August 4, 2019 4:00pm
    - peterwn
      
      Firstly, it is a ‘liquidator’, nor a ‘receiver’. The subscribers of partly unused subscriptions would in the most optimistic scenario be unsecured creditors (and in other scenarios owed nothing). However the major unsecured creditor appears to be Matt Blomfield whose principal objective is utu. The three health professionals and Brian Henry (barrister) may also be unsecured creditors. Therefore the Whaleoil subscribers would get little if any in the way of refunds.
      Now, Matt Bloomfield may have been prepared to pay something for the Whaleoil subscriber list to put it beyond the reach of those who running Whaleoil which would have returned a bit to unsecured creditors, but would not pay anything if those who ran Whaleoil subsequently used if for a new venture. Hence the liquidator would be on the warpath especially if bankrolled by Matt for utu reasons.
      
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      August 4, 2019 6:40pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What value was WhaleOil’s subscription list? To a liquidator to ascribe value he would have to carry on the blog and then it’s only worth the surplus, if any, over time. I’d rate “goodwill” as zero.
    
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    August 4, 2019 5:04pm
- The Feed
  
  Far too slow. Speed is everything.
  Far too cluttered. Looks like a generic template that’s been fucked around with.
  
  Strip it right back.
  Get the load times down.
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:09pm
Scott

Despite what some may have said in the past Iran has shown no signs of liberalising or softening its extreme version of Islam. A woman in Iran was arrested on Christmas eve and sentenced to a year in jail for the crime of converting to Christianity. This is but an example of the bleak scene in Iran where you are forbidden to leave Islam under pain of arrest and prison.

The article does ask – why do we in the west not put a higher priority on Christian refugees? They are under greater persecution in many cases and they do assimilate to the west far better than Muslims.

As I go to church this Sunday morning I will make sure to pray an extra prayer for the suffering Christians in Iran. They deserve our support IMHO.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/dictatorial-iranian-regime-sentences-christian-convert-to-1-year-in-prison/
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August 4, 2019 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Iran defends execution of gay people
  The US and Germany have condemned Iran after its foreign minister defended the policy of execution for homosexuality. The issue erupted after a pointed question from a German reporter.’
  
  And the legacy lamestream media remain largely silent…..
  
  https://www.dw.com/en/iran-defends-execution-of-gay-people/a-49144899
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:27am
  - Ruahine
    
    If Israel Folau was an Iranian all would be good. Hezbollah would soon set the ARU on to the correct path.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:56am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Indeed. We will overcome one prayer at a time.
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:25pm
- Twinkletoes
  
  Because the 30% Islamic UN controls the refugee camps and now we have signed the Compact that is all we will be sent in the future. Ian Lees-G has already stated that there have been no Xian refugees accepted here, unlike the massive intake in America under Trump.
  The Barnabus Fund mainly looks after the Xian refugees but this Govt. is obviously not going to apply to them. Under the Compact we have to take the refugees from the UN camps where Xians dare not go as for them those muslim camps are death camps.
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:27pm
- MickMac
  
  No Scott we don’t and especially our leftist lying media.
  
  https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14631/un-christian-refugees
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:49pm
JibberJabber

Check out this clip of Mr Integrity lying like a flat fish on national TV.
https://twitter.com/GeoffsAgHortHub/status/1157608221139337222
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August 4, 2019 8:21am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Slam dunk! Simon Shepherd set him up, then cut him off at the knees.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:21am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Shot like a lying flatfish in a barrel ?
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:34am
- 3-coil
  
  Thankyou JJ – a brilliant link, exposing the Greens leader. I almost felt sorry watching James Shaw squirming like a worm, caught out with a barefaced lie live on national tv! ? He is the new “hollow man” of NZ politics: he can’t be believed, and is totally unable to be trusted. Shaw is evidently unable to tell the truth, and piss-poor at lying too.
  
  Edit: and this is not the first time Shaw’s lied lately either. His garbled non-apology/”explanation”, when the Greens hurriedly pulled their ugly attack ad on Simon Bridges’ speech impediment last week, was pure unadulterated bullshit.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:51am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Where’s Martin Williams to defend this? Come on, big mouth, defend this…. Twats ( Both of them).
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:50pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes indeed; Shaw just reeks of personal integrity, doesn’t he. Can someone pass me a can of Tui please?
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:11pm
The Proper Ghandi

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255379&ref=clavis

Alt-Climate Neniers are under the bed, James!

Perhaps he should spend less time negatively attacking Bridges and more time positively promoting his own party’s (albeit misguided and dangerous) agenda.
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August 4, 2019 8:21am
MrTips

I wandered into the cesspool that is Twitter #nzpol for some reason. The following are unbelievable:
MariaSherwood, DavefromDunedin, Jeannette Gough, talanaeotime, Miss BetsyTrotswood, AndrewRidell, Bonesy, Humpty Dumpty, Paul Le Comte and Suzanne Robins.
All they do is swear, abuse and offer no sane pov. All I can say is the meds aren’t working.
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August 4, 2019 8:31am
- SGA
  
  I imagine that the commentators on #nzpol, like Kiwiblog, are a mixed bag.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:31am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  All they do is swear, abuse and offer no sane pov. All I can say is the meds aren’t working.
  
  Just like Rich Prick above then.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:55am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Twitter the worlds media sewer.
  Had a look at Jacinda Arderns twitter account this morning. She has aound 6,500 posts, in 2019 it came to an abrupt end, just three tweets, 2 in March about Tarrant and one in May about Hawke’s passing. 68 on instagram so far in 2019.
  The baby announcement was a big deal, 25,000 likes, but on instagram double at 50,000.
  Her instagram account is just beginning to go the same way, lots of adulation but more and more criticism. Wonder how long the minders will allow this, she has the problem that she is going after Facebook, maybe they will come after her.
  She is still riding high but the bubble may burst.
  If you want see her diminish, beat her at her own game, take her on in these platforms.
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:09pm
  - stephieboy
    
    “Twitter the worlds media sewer.”
    
    ??
    
    But not if the US President uses it ?
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:59pm
G152

Strange bedfellows.
Each trying to be the victim
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August 4, 2019 8:33am
Paulus

Hear last evening from Dunedin that the older ladies love James Shaw but the younger women think he is useless as he does not aspire to their activism.
Chasm between Party and Parliamentary Wing.
May they live in interesting times – but it is the old ladies who fund the Party.
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August 4, 2019 8:34am
- kowtow
  
  That’s exemplified by the fearsome female foursome marching behind the divisive flag at the illegal land occupation……..
  
  Couple of years back the Groans supported that treaty settlement , now their new intake want the whole country re litigated.
  
  Those little old lady donors may want to be careful of what they’re now funding.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:31am
Maggy Wassilieff

I Thought I heard on RNZ news early this morning that Jack McDonald – Green Party staffer and List Candidate #11 – has decided to leave the Party….

Is trouble brewing within their ranks?… or was he just a male candidate that couldn’t push through the female barrier?
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August 4, 2019 8:39am
- SGA
  
  If it was the same report that I heard, it claimed that he was unhappy with the direction of the party. In particular, it was too moderate in its approach to issues such climate change under the leadership of James Shaw.
  I’m not sure it said that he said he was leaving the party though just not standing again, or maybe I misheard.
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:51am
- Rich Prick
  
  .
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:51am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Rich Prick , and who cares about your 0.000001% of the vote and pointless bleat!
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:14am
    - Rich Prick
      
      Piss off and find a friend elsewhere. The Samaritans take all freaks, whack jobs and weirdos.
      
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      August 4, 2019 9:27am
  - artemisia
    
    Ms Turei apparently describes herself as artist and researcher. What’s the bet the Green Party pays her to ‘research’.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:40am
    - igm
      
      Like many left-wing trash she has displayed gross dishonesty (thieved from hard-working taxpayers) yet somehow this has been washed under the carpet, possibly by unelected PM’s friendly plod.
      We deserve and want answers to her fraudulent behaviour, why Sroubek has PM’s personal phone details, who is the pervert that interfered with young girls and boys at Labour eduction camp?
      Come on Ardern, time for a clean-out!
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:47am
- Tony Stuart
  
  See my comment below Maggie. He’s fired shots at Shaw on the way out.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Txs…
    
    I couldn’t find any further mention of the story on the RNZ site or other news outlets.
    
    Looks like an order has gone out to hush up any dissent in the ranks.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:26am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Go to the tweet I reproduced (link is there), and you can see the whole thread. McDonald has been trying to get into Parliament since he left school. He used to be an earnest, harmless young man, but being in that environment has turned him into a hardcore left-wing activist who believes the Greens under Shaw are too moderate. I think we’ve dodged a bullet there.
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:50am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Judging from an Interview I heard n News Talk ZB, I believe there is a deep division between the Environmentalists and the Social Warriors. Hopefully, that division will split them down the middle. I actually don’t mind true, educated, informed Greenies that care about the environment. Look at Patrick Moore. However, communist activists hell-bent on destroying society can go and fuck themselves.
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:55pm
Pongo

Stuff has had 3 days now of getting upset about the “part time PM’ comment and sure I get the urge of vast swathes of people of influence leaping in to protect Ardern but they are making her seem like she is too fragile to take any criticism and that the lack of anything much from her administration is a valid point.
Another week of the press gallery and opinion writers piling in can only be good for Bridges.
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August 4, 2019 8:42am
- septic skeptic
  
  Cindy must be working so damned hard that she hasn’t even had the chance to respond to Simon’s baseless slur yet. ???
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:29am
Rich Prick

Wheeeeeeeer’s Cindy? Come in silly bint.
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August 4, 2019 8:45am
- niggly
  
  Perhaps Labour have finally put Jacinda in the witless protection scheme (just like Kelvin)???
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:52am
  - artemisia
    
    Bet she stays well away from Shelly Bay. (Good luck with that.)
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wow..
  Have some NZ Herald commenters been reading Kiwiblog?
  
  Comment: Open and transparent? Release your letter Julie Anne Genter
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255389
  
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  August 4, 2019 8:58am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Likewise the opinion puff piece by Oscar Keightly on Stuff this morning which is just electioneering for Ms Ardern (the part-time PM) and against Bridges – nothing more, nothing less.
    He complains about the unfairness of nasty comments being made about Ms Ardern but makes similar nasty comments about Bridges – duh?
    Mr Keightly maybe standing for the Labour Party list next year?
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:06am
    - Jack5
      
      Oscar Vai To’elau Kightley acts and writes “comedy”, but it’s the little Leftist’s politics that are the joke.
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:51pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I used to quite enjoy Kightley’s comedy, especially Bro’ Town and Sione’s Wedding. My opinion changed after I met Kightley around three years ago. His shilling for the PM comes as no surprise.
        
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        August 4, 2019 1:14pm
  - niggly
    
    The other disgraceful aspect of that is Mayor Justin Lester is quoted as saying the letter is “irrelevant” and being the “fascist” he is (as in pro-bike/anti-car “fascist”) he then boldly claims that “He didn’t think Wellingtonians were interested in it”!!
    
    Justin Lester, clearly not “open and transparent” and playing politics over a $6.4billion taxpayer investment – where’s the accountability?
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:17am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Hopefully for Lester, the accountability will come at the ballot box in a couple of months. He has shown his unsuitablility to be Mayor with his “defence” of Genter’s lack of transparency.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:17am
  - Biscuit
    
    Maggy, I don’t hold a great deal of faith in the mob that call themselves ‘journalists’ but you almost get the feelz (Soz, Jass, I ‘stole’ one of your phrases) that they are tiring of the ‘nine years of neglect’ mantra and are wondering aloud why the ‘nearly two years of concern’ has produced so little of benefit to the nation.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:54am
- Lizziep
  
  She opened Pandora’s box when she made ill thought out comments prior to flying out on her multi Island holiday. Sometimes it simply pays to keep your mouth shut when you don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Well that would mean she would never say anything about anything at all. Yay….
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:13am
Monique Watson

Where is the Prime Minister? Still MIA?
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August 4, 2019 8:51am
- record guy
  
  She on location for Horse & Rider magazine
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    An “all in one” type of person……
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:25am
  - geoff3012
    
    “Horse & rider magazine” …..haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:39am
  - Inandout
    
    rg, how many hands is she?
    
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    August 17, 2019 3:10pm
- Rich Prick
  
  BMIA, bint missing in action. But the good thing is she’s fucking up nothing while suckling the First Baby somewhere a long way from the rest of us. Cindy, if you happen to read this, stay the fuck away. Cheers.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:33am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Majority of Public support EV. A miserable 39% oppose,

Fifty-one per cent of New Zealanders support the Government’s proposed electric vehicle scheme that would see low-emission cars subsidised and a fee added to some high emitters.

The latest 1 NEWS Colmar Brunton Poll found 51 per cent were in support, 39 per cent opposed it and 10 per cent did not know.

Those who were more than likely against were National supporters, people living in Waikato, men aged 35 and over and New Zealand Europeans.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/slim-majority-su pport-electric-vehicle-discount-and-high-emitter-fee
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August 4, 2019 8:53am
- Swifty
  
  90% of people think they, personally, should pay less tax.
  
  Does that mean you would support lowering taxes across the board?
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:34am
- JibberJabber
  
  In the real world where people have to work for a living, far removed from your inner city utopia, an EV just doesn`t cut it, an ebike won`t carry the 200-500kg a tradesman needs to cart from job to job, a Nissan leaf can`t tow a tandem axle trailer with a 6m packet of 100×50 framing timber, not even a tinny to go fishing on a weekend.
  Like all townies and Green politicians you seem to be incapable of understanding it`s not all about You!
  There`s a world out there that you can`t even begin to comprehend.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:42am
  - G152
    
    And I saw on the fake news where they’re going to have an electric powered tug.
    Few questions.
    How long for recharges?
    Will conventional tugs be available to cover 24/7?
    What is it with Auckland that they do the crazy so poorly?
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:23am
    - Paulus
      
      And it is costing twice that of a new current tug.
      
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      August 4, 2019 2:10pm
  - Jack5
    
    A petrol-head may be able to tell us whether it’s true that the second hand Leafs we buy in New Zealand are cheap because the range of an EV drops with the age of the battery.
    
    The used Leafs’ batteries are already wearing down, and the rich overseas Greenies take advantage of subsidies to update their cars. Some of the replaced ones come to New Zealand.
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:55pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      You’re spot on Jack5. Most Leafs arriving here are about half way through their useful lives, so in 5 years or so they’re stuffed.
      You can’t replace the battery (although those selling them say that a new industry will be in place in a few years to solve this problem). Let’s believe it when it happens.
      So Leaf buyers, prepare to throw your car away in 5 years and fork out for another one.
      Not exactly cheap motoring.
      
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      August 4, 2019 3:30pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Couriers?
    Disability taxi’s?
    Local delivery vans/ trucks?
    etc etc
    The vast majority of sales in these Utes, vans and light trucks, are fleet vehicles, NOT private owners.
    So when these companies NEED to replace these vehicles, I wonder how many employees they WON’T hire?
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:24pm
  - igm
    
    These cruds do not realise that townies invariably are only leeches on taxpayers . . . what percentage of them actually produce any items that earn a dollar?
    
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    August 4, 2019 2:43pm
- dubya
  
  Not that I should be giving you ideas, but New Zealand will continue to buy large diesel utes as long as FBT rules allow them to do so. Aside from the apparently desirable image a top spec Ford Ranger projects, you should note that the top selling vehicles (all utes) in NZ are mostly sold to companies. The top selling vehicle to private buyers is the Suzuki Swift. When kiwis are using their ‘own’ money, they already tend to make very economical choices.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:43am
  - CJames
    
    dubya Round here where I live – well away from the inner city hellholes, many people need 4WD diesels. They do things like tow trailers and caravans or use the trays to carry their work tools. And you can fit 4 big adults inside them. They might only occasionally be doing this, but their incomes don’t extend to running two cars. You buy your vehicle to suit all its intended uses, not just the 90%. That is something the people in government don’t understand. Or more worryingly, do know but don’t care, as they don’t vote for them.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:42am
    - dubya
      
      Yes, rural NZ will always buy 4wd utes because they suit their needs. However check out the ute sales stats and you’ll see the 2wd, high spec (auto gearbox, huge alloys, heated leather seats etc) equivalents outsell the 4wd, steel wheel manual gearbox farm spec models by a good margin. Many of these are the city based FBT buyers. The UK has similar tax rules and has also seen a huge increase in ‘posh ute’ sales.
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:41am
- Inandout
  
  We must keep reminding you the polls supported Hillary.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:45am
- WaveyDavey
  
  NZ doesn’t have the capacity to power a 100% ev private vehicle fleet.
  
  Where are the electric trucks to carry goods, timber, produce etc? That’s right they don’t exist.
  
  I’m surprised to see you advocating that the poor subsidise the rich though
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:57am
- alloytoo
  
  So 51% of people want coal burners as apposed to ICE engines.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:13am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Speaking as someone who actually sells EVs, there is a wide chasm between wanting an EV, and the reality of actually owning one.
  
  For the price of an affordable 2nd hand EV, with a range of 120km, you can buy a brand new small car with a full warranty and service plan.
  
  The most cost efficient way of charging an EV is at home, however if you have no garage or off street parking, or live in an apartment, this could double the cost of charging. Not everyone can afford a new I-Pace, and government subsidies will only encourage manufacturers to keep the price high.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:44am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
An incredible comparison test between a smaller model, much less expensive Telsa 3 EV and the bigger and more expensive Petrol driven BMW and Merc “hot rods,”

It’s time for an electric v petrol drag race! We know these two German powerhouses would be no match for the Tesla Model S, but how will they fair against its baby brother, the Model 3? The E63 & M850i cost about double the price, so surely the Model 3 won’t have a chance… will it?! There’s only one way to find out… Let’s race!

BMW M850i vs Tesla Model 3 vs Mercedes-AMG E63 S – DRAG RACE, ROLLING RACE & BRAKE TEST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4gO_T3xIcY

EV : Game Set and Match !
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August 4, 2019 9:07am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Yep, continue around the track 243 times and repeat.
  
  What? The Scalextric didn’t have the capacity to go around more that 50 times, the heater failed and the trailer test had to to abandoned I hear you say . . . . .
  
  When you may that ponce car sound like my V8AMG, I will still not want it.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:33am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  stephie, remind us again where the minerals in EV batteries come from and who mines for them under what conditions.
  I won’t hold my breath.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:39am
  - Inandout
    
    CM, and those 4 year old working to make our air cleaner.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:46am
  - stephieboy
    
    Like oil lithium, comes from the ground. As yet no method has been found to wave a magic wand and do the same!
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:36pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Yes stephie, that’s right. And children as young as four are being treated like slaves to extract lithium for manufacture into car batteries so the world’s liberal elite can feel good about themselves. Don’t you think something’s not quite right about that?
      
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      August 4, 2019 1:17pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      True, but some pixie dust stopped what was coming up with the help from a wave of the admonishing ‘finger’
      
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      August 4, 2019 4:09pm
- srylands
  
  What car do you drive? I bet it is not an EV.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:01am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    stephie doesn’t drive. He’s too stupid to pass the license test.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:34am
    - Jack5
      
      Some of the Stephie team have genuine Stephiestan licences to drive camels.
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:56pm
- CJames
  
  Now do the same thing with a 500kg trailer on the back and put in a few steep hills, and make it at 7am on a winter’s morning so the lights and heater has to be on. Then see what comes out the best.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:06am
- G152
  
  Make the ‘race’ over 1000 km with a full load and see how the electrics do
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:25am
- dubya
  
  How many car buyers purchase their car based on the quarter mile time?
  
  In fairness to Stephie’s efforts as a copy/paste Tesla fanboi this morning, though, BMW’s boss did recently resign because under his management, the company had not progressed into EVs at a fast enough pace. The Model 3 is an interesting car to me, because it’s not a giant 7 series sized thing like the Model S, or an ugly people mover/SUV like the X. Likewise it isn’t pig ugly and dynamically compromised like the Japanese and Korean electric offerings. It’s just a pity Tesla’s build quality leaves so much to be desired. An electric BMW 3 series for around $90k would definitely be something I’d buy when I’m a little older. An electric Mazda 3 with say 350-400km range, for $50k, I would go and order one today if it existed – it would be the perfect car for a city suburbs dweller who uses a car for work and gets stuck in traffic a fair bit.
  
  Do I think my choice should be subsidised by others’ choices though? No. So that $50k imaginary electric Mazda is a few years away.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:32am
  - rangitoto
    
    Mazda are introducing their skyactiv-x tech which makes their petrol engine run with the efficiency of diesels.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:35am
    - dubya
      
      I know – the Skyactiv-X 3 hatch is probably my next car, if Mazda NZ are going to sell it in a nice spec.
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:08pm
- Hollyfield
  
  Since I can’t afford either a Tesla or a Mercedes this comparison is of no use to me.
  
  Three years ago when I replaced my car I looked at EVs but they just didn’t stack up. They were only a few thousand dearer than the car I bought, but the worry of having to buy a new battery soon afterwards for (I was told by the dealer) $5000 made it a risk I couldn’t take.
  
  My teenage daughter (a Green/Labour voter – don’t mock her, she’s young, she’ll learn) has just bought her first car. She fell in love with a hybrid of the perfect colour and was really keen on the environmental aspect, but again the worry of the battery replacement made her decide against it. And this will make everyone laugh – she eventually settled on a car that she liked the look of, that she feels good driving – a gas-guzzling SUV! All her principles went straight out the (car) window.
  
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  August 4, 2019 3:55pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Will Jacinda come?

“Will we get Jacinda, is Jacinda coming?’ asks an old Māori man, his skin etched with blue tribal tattoos.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/03/maori-protest-camp-sacred-land-developer
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August 4, 2019 9:09am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  MW, why should she?
  
  Is Simon coming?
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:12am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Idiot.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:33am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      I’ll second that.
      
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      August 4, 2019 9:39am
      - Rich Prick
        
        I don’t know why this fuckwit comments here. I’ve heard he’s into little girl with supple and pert little breasts and also our more mature folk’s underwear. Creep, and too weird for my liking.
        
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        August 4, 2019 9:55am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        and lets not forget that he seems very interested in collecting information about our relatives and friends.
        
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        August 4, 2019 10:05am
      - Martin Williams
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Rich Prick, I think you need to kick the cat again. You haven’t got the bile out of your system yet.
        
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        August 4, 2019 10:07am
      - stigie
        
        https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/01/89/14/44/500_F_189144455_WkoFiqGInAWK5jbTCvL2nCDs7au3Fyrb.jpg
        
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        August 4, 2019 10:22am
      - rightoverlabour
        
        I think it was my downtick that got rid of the moronic, nasty xenophobe. Well done lads.
        
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        August 4, 2019 1:04pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Of course Bridges isn’t going. Nat supporters couldn’t give a toss if went or not. This is Cindy’s personal tar pit – and whatever she does including doing nothing she will lose some supporters.
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:36am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” … Sun Tzu.
      “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” ― Sun Tzu,
      
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      August 4, 2019 1:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    MW, why should she?
    
    Aren’t you following the Ihumātao issue, stephieboy?
    
    Jacinda Ardern has been asked to attend by the leader of SOUL, Pania Newton, to korero wahine to wahine.
    
    Read the Guardian article…or look at its images…you’ll see this one..
    WHERE ARE YOU JACINDA
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/03/maori-protest-camp-sacred-land-developer#img-4
    
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    August 4, 2019 9:47am
    - JibberJabber
      
      LoL, I respectfully suggest Stephie needs a safe word when he attempts to debate with you Maggie. ?
      Unfortunately, I believe “mercy Mistress” has been taken, even tho` the previous owner no longer requires it.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:17am
      - marcw
        
        I believe stephie is so intellectually compromised she would use “more” as her safe word.
        
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        August 4, 2019 11:13am
    - stephieboy
      
      MW, is there a compelling reason why she ( like Siomon or Winston ) should attend?
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:39pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        She has already inserted herself into the dispute when she would have been far better advised to steer clear and claim it’s a matter for the police and the courts, so she can’t comment. Now having walked into the tar pit she will find it isn’t possible to extract herself cleanly. Assuming that at some point she does come back to work of course.
        
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        August 4, 2019 1:33pm
  - Nookin
    
    Stephieboy
    You seem to be intent on grooming your quite exceptional skills at vacuous inanities. Some reasons why the PM might come include the fact she declared that the owner of property would not be permitted to carry out a lawful activity on that owner’s property. She also declared that there needed to be a conversation about it all. In doing so she gave some form of de facto legitimacy to the protestors unlawful occupation of someone else’s land.
    Given that it has long been a fundamental underlay of the settlement processes that privately owned land cannot be touched, this is a hugely significant move.
    Her captains call might have opened a can of worms and, to quote the immortal words of Happy Gilmore, a whole bunch of whoop-ass.
    That is why she should be there — not swanning around tropical islands.
    
    Is Simon going? No. Why should he. He says that the protestors need to obey the law. He isn’t the law. Nor is the PM. She only thinks she is.
    Sadly, this confrontation, given sustenance by the PM, is going to end in tears of a truck load to taxpayers’ money tipped down the gurgler— not just on this issue buy on countless other issues now that private property rights can be attacked (regardless of the legislation).
    
    Answer your question?
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:08am
    - Tall Man
      
      You are wasting your time. Posters like steffy girl and martin are not here for edification, they are incapable of original thought. They post here just to throw a bit of muck and feel good about themselves.
      
      They are both intellectually like slow moving blowflies, light on substance, full of maggots and really easy to swat.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:45am
    - artemisia
      
      Ms Ardern may have ‘declared’ no building work yet, but Fletchers agreed to this. Maybe they figured no percentage in opposing it, or there’s a glint in the Fletcher eye that they might get big compo and not have to deal with the aggro plus freebies for iwi.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:48am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Jacinda’s personal presence should assist in joining her as party to a damages claim. She seems to be responsible for instigating the reported law breaking. She cannot claim royal privilege and it is outside her Parliamentary authority to suspend commercial contracts to her will.
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:44pm
- niggly
  
  No wonder why Jacinda is in Labour’s witless protection programme, some of the protesters genuinely think that her appearance will solve the issue and that “they will get their land back”.
  
  Well Jacinda caused this mess at the end of the first week of the occupation by calling for a building halt – just what the protesters wanted …
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:27am
- Yvette
  
  Britain seized Ihumātao in 1863. Now housing developers are doing so. But New Zealand’s indigenous people are resisting. – sub-head of Guardian item Maggi links to
  
  No, the housing developers acquired the farm land through legitimate purchase paying a reported $19 million. The sub-headline claim above that the land is “seized” now, may be the responsibility of a Guardian editor, or possibly article writer. Eleanor Ainge Roy, of Dunedin, who should know it is a lie and not helpful. She would surely also know Maori are not “indigenous” but, by their proudly lauded tradition, are “first migrants” at best.
  
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  August 4, 2019 9:36am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I think the question is when and how did it become unseized to the benefit of the former land owners? Maybe not right in the middle of the plate at the moment but certainly on there.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:03am
    - Tall Man
      
      Rubbish again from you. 150 years ago the land was sold. End of story.
      
      The tribe were “settled” by the 2014 treaty settlement with both land and money as part of a four party settlement.
      
      Only maori and stupid people think they can keep negotiating after the deal is well done and dusted.
      
      This is a civil matter and involving a tiny, 3%, minority of people within the tribe.
      
      Fuck em I say.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:24am
    - Yvette
      
      Brian, you are undoubtably right, but whatever the process that “granted” the land to the Wallace family may mean, it became private land and so beyond consideration of Waitangi Tribunal settlement. Unless the Government wants to unravel that.
      
      So other land is substituted in the settlement one assumes, but the question remains whether the Wallace land was sacred, and since it was used for growing food – wheat (otherwise the tapu affront is probably more than resting one’s bum against the kitchen table) – it would seem not, just as the iwi now would not agree to options on 40 houses were they built over burial grounds, a la a Maori version of POLTERGEIST.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:35am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      History is always a good teacher. John Key went into a state housing estate when the party leader in opposition and made friends with a young girl from a sole parent family in a situation that gained much publicity and possibly softened the Maori voters and workers view of National. Later he would be joined on the Treasury Benches by the Maori party as part of the fallout from Foreshore and Seabed Act. He introduced PI’s into his cabinet and strengthened his vote in Mangere – whether there was universal and enduring support for that is now doubtful, but nevertheless Ihumatoa is an opportunity National don’t look capable of taking advantage of. I think the election of 2 part Maori leaders may have been a recognition of needing to regather the lost Maori vote. There is some (I think naive) criticism of JA not rushing to Ihumatoa yet her cabinet Ministers have been busy there and the arrival of the Maori King was not accidental to the fact of the Mahuta name in Tainui. I think JK would most likely have been in his intuitive element here, while Simon and Paula look uncomfortably out of place. I do recall JA talking about having listened to the ‘young people’ who are no doubt more informed of their own history than they were a generation ago. I was unaware until yesterday that the Coronation of the 1st Maori King was at Ihumatao (1858 from memory) and it may be no accident that the current King has apparently asked for a Hui to happen before the 8th or 9th with both parties for and against. That said, the issues around high imprisonment numbers of Maori and high suicide rate of young Maori men and teenagers seem still relatively raw after almost 2 years of a new Government. Will National remain silent on all this, do they have someone capable of speaking out on it? Finlayson and less so Adams come to mind who are of course leaving, 1 person recently said to me that National are too internalised on their own problems and can’t lift their heads to look out – well now is the time they did. Be radical and real, in the moment.
      
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      August 4, 2019 10:42am
      - Tall Man
        
        Finlayson has already “come out” and said it’s civil, stay out of it.
        
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        August 4, 2019 10:52am
      - septic skeptic
        
        What for? Maori are in general tribal Labour. There are better places to look for increased support.
        
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        August 4, 2019 11:03am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        As has Willie Jackson, to his credit (and I don’t give Jackson credit easily!). Jackson said that, whatever the injustices, the deal must be respected.
        
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        August 4, 2019 11:03am
      - Jack5
        
        That’s a record paragraph in length for General Debate, Brian McDonald.
        
        Do you need a new keyboard? Is your enter key’s spring broken? ?
        
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        August 4, 2019 12:43pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Whoops sorry Tony just reported you by mistake. You and Willie may have an different interpretation on ‘respecting’ the deal. And the question might become which deal.
        
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        August 4, 2019 2:56pm
    - Straight arrow
      
      There seems to be misunderstanding of what “granted” means, possibly deliberately. LINZ state on website:
      “Once the Crown obtained its interest in Māori land whether by way of acquisition or raupatu (confiscation), it recorded subsequent sales of the land in Crown Grants. These grants provided the purchaser with documentary evidence of ownership.”
      
      In other words, a “grant” is documentation that someone has ownership of the title – after sale of land.
      
      I have seen adverts in papers for land auctions at Ihumatao in November 1866. I think Wallace family got ownership in 1867, after purchasing it.
      
      Possibly many people may think that the Wallace family got the land for free, presumably as a reward for some favour. This does not seem to be true.
      
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      August 4, 2019 12:00pm
Tauhei Notts

Much has been written about the late Sir Brian Lochore, but I haven’t seen anything about the wonderful work he did for the Queen Elizabeth II Ecological Trust.
Farmers like Sir Brian care more, and do more, for the environment than do any politicians with two mothers.
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August 4, 2019 9:12am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Martin Devlin did a superb interview with Sir Brian a few weeks ago, knowing Lochore was terminally ill, and that it would probably be his last interview. It was a magnificent piece of radio:
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-devlin-radio-show/audio/sir-brian-lochore-we-had-the-right-people-on-the-bus-in-1987/
  
  Arohanui to Lady Pam and the Lochore family. Sir Brian was a colossus and a genuinely great New Zealander.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:34am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    That note on the fridge was his Hillary moment.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:43am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed. That Wellington test in 1971 was the first test match I had ever attended. My father and I took the early morning train to Wellington, had breakfast at the greasy spoon station cafe, got a taxi to Athletic Park, queued more than half a mile from the gates, then after the match walked into town, ate at a hole-in-the-wall “restaurant” down town, and took the train home. It was a day I will never forget.
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:06am
septic skeptic

There is not much point in opening up a general debate thread if nobody is around to clear comments through this over the top moderation policy.
I’ll give this site another week, but I’m close to leaving.
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August 4, 2019 9:20am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Instead of criticising, why don’t you offer your services to DPF to help.
  
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  August 4, 2019 11:07am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Sorry I must have missed the call for more moderators, I’ve been away recently. Last I heard was shortly after the policy was introduced and apparently they had enough.
    I’m not sure more moderators is the solution anyway. I think the posts should go up instantly, and then moderators can amend, censure and ban as appropriate. At times discussion on this site has delay times like we are all on different planets. My impression is that this is to cater for a tiny fraction of errant posts and I think it’s excessive.
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:56pm
fernglas

Life is full of disappointments. Jacinda isn’t Joan of Arc reincarnate. America hasn’t been made great again, although it is a shit hot place to live if you want to be part of a mass killing culture. Boris Johnson will put the interests of his country behind his own. So will Winston Peters. Trump is being nice to a dangerous despot so he can get a Trump hotel on the ground in Pyongyang. Macron is shafting his people in favour of vested interests. Trump wants to penalise anyone who dares to tax the likes of Facebook for revenue generated in their home country. China is returning to authoritarianism.Shit happens. But why is so much of it happening now? Just when I thought I had retired and could stop worrying, these things have come along to destroy my equilibrium.
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August 4, 2019 9:32am
- Tall Man
  
  I think you may find solace at the standard, they also can’t see the wood for the trees.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:19am
Prince

Stuff running out of ‘journalists’ now enlisting Labour Party functionaries to write their articles.
Shane Te Pou is a former candidate, campaign manager and executive member of the Labour Party.
He runs an eye over Labour’s Maori MP’s and, surprisingly, finds tham mostly pretty wonderful.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/114711926/labour-won-back-all-the-maori-seats–but-has-it-delivered
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August 4, 2019 9:33am
- sooty
  
  Suff never had any journalist for the last twenty years!
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:18am
  - marcw
    
    Probably the only way to save Stuff on present indicators would be to promote their only journalist left, Martin van Beynen, to Editor.
    
    He sometimes writes good and balanced copy, such as his recent summary of the state of the Peter Ellis corruption of justice saga.
    
    Knowing Stuff, they would rather continue to shed subscribers and company value than admit they are unrepresentative of most NZers today, and that their politics are those of losers and leading to the massive loss in our standard of living for the next 5 – 10 years while we recover from the ‘wellbeing’.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:29am
kowtow

The lamestream media are making the Groan’s about the Shaw attack on Bridges……

……surely a media that holds power to account should focus on their cynical manipulation , at least this journo has made a passing reference .

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/395876/transparency-falters-at-greens-annual-conference
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August 4, 2019 9:36am
Yvette

Today the government finally released the KPMG report that informed its firearms buyback scheme, and it shows ministers have disregarded advice to make the buyback as effective as possible.

The government was told the cost of the buyback could be up to $750 million for the scheme to be effective. Instead, it has chosen the lower-cost option, despite warnings the firearms community was feeling pain and anger and this would impact compliance.

… the buyback has only brought in 6800 firearms to date at a price of $12 million.
If the buyback events continue at the same pace, the government may end up with fewer than 50,000 firearms handed in – even though the total number of banned firearms could be 240,000 or higher.

Instead of putting compliance and public safety first and choosing the worst-case option, the government has focused on its budget bottom lines rather than work with the firearms community to make New Zealand safer. [1]

So possibly the prediction is that 190,000 banned firearms may be left in circulation, while presumably it is the more responsible conscientious owners who are handing theirs in.

And it appears there was one single Christchurch mosques shooter.
Does anyone feel safer yet?

[1] National’s Police spokesperson Brett Hudson https://www.national.org.nz/report_signals_warning_over_success_of_buyback
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August 4, 2019 9:39am
- Grey Skills
  
  If the perp had used a large truck to mow down 51 people instead of a multi shot firearm, would all the roads be quieter now?
  
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  August 4, 2019 11:34am
  - septic skeptic
    
    It would have been very hard to mow down 51 muslims with a truck. Sure, he could in theory have used bombs – but I think he chose the semi-automatic assault rifle because that was the tool best suited to his purpose.
    I’m not defending the buy back – just pointing out that he couldn’t actually have mowed down his targets using a truck.
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:03pm
Humble Capitalist

Rescinda Adjourn will be in for another busy week no doubt
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August 4, 2019 9:40am
- kevn
  
  @Humble…. Tune in to Hosking on Monday morning for his PM radio interview. So much to ‘talk’ about…
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:49pm
  - yossarian
    
    I thought it was Tuesday mornings? Doesn’t Jacinda have 4 day weekends?
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:28pm
Lee C

Did Jacinda enjoy her Birthday in Tokolau?
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August 4, 2019 9:42am
- calendar girl
  
  Why did PM Ardern feel a pressing need to visit Tokelau over the last week, at not inconsiderable expense to the humble taxpayer? Yes, she did make the point that no New Zealand PM had visited Tokelau in 15 years. But on this occasion she took with her one of her own Ministers – himself of Tokelauan descent – who could no doubt have made his own arrangements to visit separately and carry the NZ flag on her behalf and that of her Government.
  
  We recognise the point about an absence of 15 years since the last visit by an NZ Prime Minister, but does Tokelau’s modest total population (not dissimilar to that of NZ towns like Oamaru, Tokoroa, Rolleston and Fielding) justify our PM spending 5 days, including travel time from and to Samoa by NZ Navy frigate?
  
  Of course, most of us know that PM Ardern and her father (the NZ-appointed Administrator of NZ’s Tokelau Territory) were both celebrating birthdays in Tokelau during the week of her visit. Very convenient and convivial for the family.
  
  While normally I would have no objection to our public servants having reasonable time off to mark important personal and / or family occasions, this particular side-event and its implications all seemed a little unusual, contrived and high-cost for my liking.
  
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  August 4, 2019 5:08pm
lastmanstanding

As others have posted it appears the Green Party could be danger of fracturing. One hopes so.

If that is the case one hopes the Nats have a plan in place to go to James Shaw and offer a safe Blue/Green seat for him Minister of the Environment and a couple of Associates to those he brings with him.

IMHO a pure Green Party without the Reds should be able to garner at least 3 or 4 % and importantly the younger voters.

A combination of the Nats pure Greens and Act would be a powerful offering that appealed to a wide sector of voters.

As long as they hung together ( always a problem with the political class) they could govern for a lomg time.
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August 4, 2019 9:46am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  lastman I think Shaw has already said that Hell would freeze over before he ever got together with Bridges (or words to that effect).
  That’s OK, early in the new year the Nats are going to announce that no way will they have anything to do with the Greens or Winston.
  That should get them up to 52%.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Both Winfirst and Grrreeens are not fit to be in Parliament. National has capable sensible people as their first choice not ideological flunkies.
    
    When the greens can explain why CO2 levels lag temperature by 800 years making AGW a farce they may be listened to.
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:53pm
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Very much doubt it. On current polling its hard to see Greens under 5% and hard to see Nats at 48/50%.
    
    Unless the Nats find another partner they are toast.
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:59pm
- dubya
  
  A safe blue green seat? Does that exist? Auckland Central is the closest I can think of, and that’s marginal as f**k.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:06am
- septic skeptic
  
  lastmanstanding, you haven’t been paying attention.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:31am
Brian McDonald

I saw on TV last night that Wellington support electric car subsidies whereas rural areas don’t. The question is then why can’t such decisions be made region by region?
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August 4, 2019 9:51am
- srylands
  
  People don’t think this stuff through. People polled probably support fees free tertiary education, the second worse public policy decision of the last 30 years.
  
  Right now, EVs are not a value proposition for most people, subsidy or not. I stress “right now”. Let the market figure it out.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:07am
- DigNap15
  
  We are not Norway where they give huge subsidies to EV’s
  Huge
  They have a big oil and gas industry which allows them to pay fro all that shit.
  
  Lets wait and see if EV’s really prove themselves in other countries, say for 10 years, before jump in.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:16am
  - srylands
    
    Inner city professionals don’t understand that the average age of New Zealand cars is 14 years. That means that there are many older than 20 years.
    
    So let’s be generous and say the average value of cars is $7000. The median age is and value will be lower because there will be a short cohort of new expensive cars and a long tail of old cars.
    
    These average, or median car owners, will not buy electric cars in the next 15 years. That means that the subsidies are being raised by taxes on these median drivers to fund EVs for urban professionals in urban areas. It really is that stark.
    
    So refute that Stephie. BTW don’t fall into the current fashion of thinking ‘refute’ is the same as ‘deny’.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:14am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Because if you did it region by region the Green/Labour latte swillers in Wellington and Auckland would have to be subsidising their own evs.
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/slim-majority-support-electric-vehicle-discount-and-high-emitter-fee
  
  If you make a nation-wide ruling then all the hard-working productive tradies, farmers, service workers end up subsidising the city-dwelling luvvies.
  
  Disclosure:
  Our old Toyota Corolla is becoming a bit temperamental (ignition coils dodgy)… Hubby has started talking about a Prius!!!!!
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:19am
  - Tall Man
    
    About or to?
    
    Sounds like it’s time for one of these…..
    
    https://www.psycom.net/dementia-test/
    
    😉
    
    5 1
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    August 4, 2019 10:42am
  - Ruahine
    
    I think that there should be buy back scheme to get all pre-2000 Toyota Corollas off the roads. Let’s do it.
    
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    August 4, 2019 12:44pm
  - stephieboy
    
    MW, pretty lame and pathetic stuff. Rather puerile in fact!
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:03pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Nobody is forcing you to read my comments.
      
      In fact, you don’t even have to attach a silly little smear after my posts.
      
      However, as you do so often, I am only too pleased to have yet another example of your harassment.
      
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      August 4, 2019 2:23pm
  - Rob2
    
    Better make sure he is around to push you up your hill there Maggie.
    
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    August 4, 2019 2:03pm
    - Sacha
      
      No need to rely on Stephie.
      My ’95 Commodore will do the job. 310ks on the clock.
      
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      August 4, 2019 4:00pm
- cmm
  
  “why can’t such decisions be made region by region?”
  
  Well that’s easy.
  
  People in rural areas drive further and EVs are less useful to them.
  
  Then, rural people tend to be net tax payers while urban people tend to be net tax consumers.
  
  Thus, EV subsidies require taking money from rural people and giving it to urban people.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:42am
  - kowtow
    
    Anyone else notice how the urban/rural , red green / blue , work /dole , indeed white / brown , divides are growing and being exploited by media , agenda driven types ?
    
    Dangerous times , especially if pushed too hard.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:59am
JibberJabber

Another pick from Green Fest sans uniforms,
https://twitter.com/KermysBack/status/1157609026982576128

Last night the TV tried to crop their pictures to hide the reality…
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August 4, 2019 9:56am
Martin Williams

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Wow. The toothless right-wing-nut-jobs are out in force this morning.

Shaw’s speech and appearance on the Nation has hurt. It has hurt because Shaw is right; Simon Bridges is a climate change denier and has no integrity.

Right-wing-nut-jobs know that a powerful meme exists come election time around a very, very simple message on the environment. A vote for National is a vote for further destruction.

The big support for reining in dirty farmers and other polluters has shown that most decent people care. Dairy conversions have thankfully ground to a halt and reversed in some areas.

It would be a very very stupid move to promote such activities again. Mind you, it is Simon Bridges so anything goes.

A vote for National is a vote for filthy farming. They must be shitting themselves.
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August 4, 2019 10:04am
- JibberJabber
  
  WoW, triggered much?
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:35am
- Tall Man
  
  A vote for the watermelons is a vote for a liar….. the same as labour.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:37am
- Swifty
  
  I figure you to be quite young.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:38am
- stigie
  
  Is there such a thing as pathetic bile..? Bwahahahahaha !~
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Simon Bridges is a climate change denier
  
  Like hell, he is.
  I know who the “Climate deniers” are…
  and I can assure you that folks in the National Party hierarchy are well and truly in the Kyoto/IPCC camp.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:41am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Yes, I don’t have much confidence in the Nats doing the right thing either. NZ can do virtually nothing to prevent warming if it is going to happen. So unless we are convinced that USA, China and India will reduce emissions, we should be spending money on mitigation, not trying to lead the world in reducing our emissions.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:22am
  - stephieboy
    
    MW, tell us then what does it take to be a climate denier unlike you?
    
    Maybe we shall call Simon a soft climate denier.
    
    Will that do?
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:05pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You are the expert around here labelling people as a climate denier, stephieboy.
      
      I don’t go around calling folks nasty names or lying about their actions.
      
      Here’s one of Simon Bridges’ speeches on Climate Change:
      
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1806/S00152/simon-bridges-speech-to-fieldays-on-climate-change.htm
      
      He’s no Climate Denier,
      
      but it’s a nasty term that some folks like to throw around wily nily isn’t it…..hoping that some shit will stick.
      
      I recognise the technique. You and your anonymous mates have used it often enough here on KB.
      
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      August 4, 2019 2:41pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      A Climate Denier? WTF is that? We have climatologists who look at data and suggest a hypothesis, and others that look at the same data and suggest another. Then they battle it out to see who is right. That’s good science. Not the methodology of the looney left that name call when they get challenged.
      
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      August 4, 2019 6:25pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Martin, did Simon Bridges steal your teddy bear at kindy or something?
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:43am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Did you see Shaw lie on The Nation Martin? He claimed he couldn’t go to Ihumatao because he had ministerial appointments all day, but Simon Shepherd had already seen the ministerial diary for the day, and guess what…
  
  Personal integrity eh?
  
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  August 4, 2019 11:00am
  - Swifty
    
    It’s been a while since I’ve seen a NZ politician so comprehensively down-trou’ed.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:10am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed, and it was a thing (the down-trou’ing, not the down-trou’ed MP) of considerable beauty.
      
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      August 4, 2019 11:53am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Climate change is a nasty leftwing hoax.
  
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  August 4, 2019 11:07am
  - stephieboy
    
    Thus saith Donal Trump but who has recently changed his mind on that score ,
    
    https://time.com/5622374/donald-trump-climate-change-hoax-event/
    
    LOL!
    
    This demands an explanation especially from the All on Reds And Maggy Ws of this world !
    
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    August 4, 2019 1:06pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      When have I ever given a flying fuck about Donald Trump?
      
      Is there something you don’t understand, stephieboy?
      
      I don’t gibe a rat’s arse about the war-mongering USA… never have..
      
      Trump is your obsession…..
      
      There’s no need to share.
      
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      August 4, 2019 2:56pm
- Gravelroad
  
  And yet we still need farming for food and clothing – not to mention export earnings, Martin.
  I take it that you do eat and wear natural products?
  Or do you prefer food and fibre made in a laboratory from oil – based chemicals and plastics, Martin?
  Hypocrisy much.
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:04pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Go and freeze in the forthcoming cooling. And then we’ll see who has integrity. Xenophobe.
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:14pm
- Nermal
  
  Climate Change Denier – damn you for giving me a moment of hope
  
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  August 4, 2019 3:32pm
Tony Stuart

One of the Greens’ “rising stars”, Jack McDonald, has resigned from his policy role with the party, and won’t contest the 2020 election. And he’s put the blame fairly and squarely on James Shaw:

Jack McDonald
@tautokai
But the last few years have been tough; the 2017 campaign, Metiria’s resignation, and the centrist drift of the Party’s direction under James Shaw’s co-leadership. When the IPCC says we have 12 years to prevent ‘climate catastrophe’, we don’t have time for centrism or moderation.
11:10 AM · Aug 3, 2019

https://twitter.com/tautokai/status/1157428535633436672

There’s obviously a clear divide within the Greens between the people Shaw represents, and those who think he has taken the party towards the centre. Patently, he hasn’t. Shaw has been rolled by Marama Davidson and her hardcore Left, feminist, activist brigade. The fact that McDonald sees the Greens as shifting to the centre should make us glad he never made it to Parliament.
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August 4, 2019 10:13am
- JibberJabber
  
  A leftist loon that no one has ever heard of bites the dust, centrist drift ha ha ha.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:32am
- emmess
  
  Centrist drift?
  Ha
  
  Is that from Stalinism to Leninism?
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:46am
- rangitoto
  
  Don’t tell me the Greens have been infiltrated by capitalist roaders!
  
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  August 4, 2019 12:12pm
mikenmildagain

There’s a particularly relevant holiday for Kiwibloggers today. It’s the feast of St Sithney, the patron saint of mad dogs.
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August 4, 2019 10:21am
- Martin Williams
  
  [Mod: Deleted and warning]
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    Talk about proving a point…
    
    Own goal sunshine.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:49am
  - Nookin
    
    Just curious, Martin, but have you ever made a constructive comment or is your arsenal limited to personal attacks? You are no better than those you criticise.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:52am
- Tall Man
  
  “Mad Dogs” and you and martin pop up….. Yep, I can see that link.
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:36am
- BrownSnake
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sithney
  
  A Breton folk story,[1] an adaptation of a tale associated with Ciarán of Saigir,[1] states that God asked Sithney to be the patron saint of girls seeking husbands, but Sithney said he would rather be the patron saint of mad dogs and get some rest.
  
  He is the patron saint of Sithney, Cornwall, United Kingdom], and is invoked for help against rabies and mad dogs, and for healing of mad dogs
  
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  August 4, 2019 10:43am
  - rockape
    
    Used to visit a little church on the North Cornwall coast on a military training area I used at Penhale. Alledgedly Ststithians original church, not much of it left.
    
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    August 4, 2019 11:22am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      My adopted neck of the woods. Coming over the top of the Bodmin Moor to looks towards Queens alway made me think I had come home.
      
      The guy with the garden full of gnomes reminded me how special and different Cornwall is to the rest of England, in the nicest of ways, me ‘ansome!
      
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      August 4, 2019 4:36pm
- Nookin
  
  Shhhhhsh, mm
  
  The lefties might want to mondayise it!
  
  12 0
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  August 4, 2019 10:44am
- Nermal
  
  M&M, unlike Marty & Stephie, you do give us the odd pearl. Uptick for humour
  
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  August 4, 2019 3:35pm
JibberJabber

The War on Boys,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpYj0E-yb4
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August 4, 2019 10:29am
- MH
  
  and who presented these 4 signs, a women !
  No mention of not enough Men teachers/role models. but I agree with her comments.
  Both Rugby League and Rugby Union and other major male sports organisations should be sponsoring men teachers at Tcols
  
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  August 4, 2019 11:55am
alloytoo

A Letter to Simon Bridges:

I’d like to draw your attention to this blog from the Times of India:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/seeing-the-invisible/maximise-the-current-generations-wealth-and-review-any-co2-issues-in-2050/

The blog brings into focus (from an Indian perspective) the lack of rational decision making concerning climate change.

Couple of things to consider:

New Zealand already has a very small carbon footprint, the cost of reducing our footprint further would be very expensive.

This expense would without a doubt be carried by the poorest part of our society through the increased cost of food, power and fuel. This is because the poorest in our society are least able to moderate their behaviour, have fewer options, to reduce said carbon footprint.

In addition, all this expense, all this opportunity sacrificed will have exactly ZERO impact on climate change.

What it will do however is raise the expense of our already low carbon products abroad forcing our consumers to adopt options provided by less environmentally friendly suppliers, who would ramp up production (and increase emissions) to meet demand.

Worse yet, in making ourselves poorer, we reduce our ability to cope with climate change when it arrives (and potentially have made it worse).

We should further resist the urge to indulge in the command style economics being advocated by climate alarmists. If the history of the 20th century has shown anything, it’s that such economics are inefficient and lead not only to poverty, but to poor environmental outcomes. (Someone needs to tell our Part Time PM that Socialism is a failed philosophy. Assuming she’s in the country that is.)

Wealthy healthier societies demand cleaner healthier environments which the market then provides. Wealthy societies are also better able to deal with external crises. (Christchurch is an example of that.)

The argument that we can’t afford to do nothing is patently false if doing something makes things worse.

This governments policies are akin to boy racers slapping “Go faster” parts onto finely tuned race car. They have neither the knowledge or the skill to effect real change and will ultimately make this “go slower” with less safety.

Please don’t let the poorly considered irrational decisions of this government lead us into structural poverty trying to change something over which we have zero impact.

We need rational decision making, not “Feelz.”
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August 4, 2019 10:31am
- stephieboy
  
  alloytoo, and tell us about Simons’ response ?
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:11pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Simon usually acknowledges emails sent to him with a working day.
    
    (I suspect, like the PM, you may not be familiar with this “working day” concept.)
    
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    August 4, 2019 4:28pm
- Kabull
  
  The Times of India article is magnificent and deserves to be published in NZ. But how do we achieve that?
  
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  August 5, 2019 7:42am
Happychappy

Won’t it be interesting today to see what Jacinda and Davd Clark the Health Minister have come up with regarding much talked about Cancer plan.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255392
After all the talk about we have to get it right and Clark saying that it bad to single out one illness when there are many others, will he change his mind or just go all out to outdo Nationals cancer plan release.
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August 4, 2019 10:32am
- DigNap15
  
  I heard David Clark on the radio 6 months ago saying that he had a plan for cancer treatment. But that he was still working on it.
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:41pm
  - alloytoo
    
    The last cancer plan ended at the end of 2018.
    
    One has to ask why a new plan wasn’t in place before then?
    
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    August 4, 2019 4:30pm
- DigNap15
  
  What about the 500 million dhb deficit?
  And growing by the month.
  Surely that needs to be addressed first.
  
  4 1
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  August 4, 2019 1:43pm
  - alloytoo
    
    The reality is that Labour’s “increase” in health spend didn’t even cover inflation.
    
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    August 4, 2019 4:31pm
BrownSnake

I am cooking free range eggs for the Captain
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August 4, 2019 10:41am
- Swifty
  
  You should try popping them in your morning ale….
  
  https://youtu.be/Y7e4Y03uojg?t=2
  
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  August 4, 2019 11:18am
cmm

Stuff having a climate change outrage where they include the following in their climate change section:

Warning about expected 8m waves caused by wind.

San Francisco bans plastic water bottles,

Obituary for Murray Rodgers.

None of these anything to do with climate change.
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August 4, 2019 10:53am
- stephieboy
  
  cmm,
  
  “San Francisco bans plastic water bottles,” ??
  
  What is so evil about that?
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:13pm
- Rich Prick
  
  San Francisco is such a brave liberal city. Now if only they could do something to stop their citizens from taking dumps on the sidewalks and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
  
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  August 4, 2019 3:37pm
JibberJabber

“We had expected more melting”
Heavy duty Ice Breaker defeated by the summer icepack returns to port with its tail between its rudders.
https://electroverse.net/we-had-expected-more-melting-thick-arctic-ice-forces-norwegian-icebreaker-back/

The ice is encroaching ever-further south.

Wait what..?
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August 4, 2019 11:00am
- cmm
  
  Ideaology vs reality.
  
  Almost as stupid as the South African dude who tried to paddle to the North Pole in 2010 or so to “prove global warming”. Bit of a bugger the invisible ice getting in the way.
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:12pm
- stephieboy
  
  JibberJabber, if you take the trouble and read further , we get this ,
  
  Extreme weather events = climate change = global warming! ,
  
  https://electroverse.net/category/extreme-weather/
  
  Duh!
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:16pm
  - JibberJabber
    
    Er, summer is not an extreme weather event it occurs yearly, if you got out of ur mummies basement you`d notice that.
    
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    August 4, 2019 4:04pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Don’t you mean:
    
    Global Warming = Climate Change => Extreme weather?
    
    Alas the warming part appears to have stalled and the increase in Extreme Weather events never materialized (opposite in fact).
    
    8 1
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    August 4, 2019 4:34pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    The funny thing is our dumb little friend has linked to a web site which is sceptical of AGW
    They have articles like this;
    https://electroverse.net/new-scientific-paper-proves-clouds-control-the-climate-not-man/
    It also lists the UAH satellite Data set which shows warming has dropped off.
    Then there’s Sea Ice data showing it’s not disappearing.
    I think it’s a good resource for info to down play the AGW argument!!!!
    He really isn’t very bright.
    It’s funny though.
    
    9 2
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    August 4, 2019 5:29pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Just to add
      This sentence was in the Article he linked to;
      ‘The cold times are returning, in line with historically low solar activity:’
      
      See what I mean?
      LOL
      
      9 2
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      August 4, 2019 5:31pm
    - stephieboy
      
      All on Red,, sit is funny especially with Paul Joesph Watson . Zero Hedge , Fox etc involved,
      
      CLAIM
      
      “During the last hundred years the temperature is increased about 0.1°C because of carbon dioxide. The human contribution was about 0.01°C.”
      VERDICT
      more about the rating framework
      
      SOURCE: Jyrki Kauppinen, Paul Joseph Watson, Pekka Malmi, Fox News, Sky News Australia, Summit.news, Zero Hedge, 11 July 2019
      DETAILS
      
      Flawed Reasoning: The authors’ argument claims a correlation between cloud cover/relative humidity and global temperature proves that the former caused the latter without investigating whether they have the relationship backwards.
      Inadequate support: The source of their claimed global cloud dataset is not given, and no research on their proposed mechanism for climate change is cited.
      Fails to provide correct physical explanation: The manuscript incorrectly claims that the rise of atmospheric carbon dioxide is caused by release from ocean waters. It also provides no explanation for the claim that an increase in relative humidity causes global cooling.
      KEY TAKE AWAY
      
      Warming related to human activities is estimated to be around 1°C over the past century. This document claims to overturn decades of scientific findings but provides neither the source of the data it uses nor the physics responsible for the proposed relationship between clouds and global temperature.
      
      https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/non-peer-reviewed-manuscript-falsely-claims-natural-cloud-changes-can-explain-global-warming/
      
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      August 4, 2019 6:13pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You are so dumb I’m embarrassed for you. (Not really- lol)
        The Author Kauppinen is a Lead Author for the IPCC in AR 5.
        Watson, Fox, Sky etc didn’t write it.
        And you are the one who linked to the website where the article was.
        Ever been outside on a sunny day and it clouded over? Got cooler eh.
        You realise all the GCMs don’t include the effect of Clouds- of course you don’t.
        Look, why don’t you just f**k off. You’re a complete joke who makes a fool of himself every day.
        And cut all the stalking out. It’s really weird and creepy for your stupid comments.
        
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        August 4, 2019 8:56pm
Monique Watson

Murder is murder:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114666458/growing-concern-over-lorraine-smiths-guilty-plea-for-murder-of-her-granddaughter

She should be jailed for her crimes and killing her granddaughter.

This! Is the attitude that is the leading contributing factor to the high Kiwi homicide/suicide rate. Excusing inter-generational abuse.

Personally I wish her a quick jump to a parallel universe where she’d already be Oranged up and a candidate for death row.

But that’s me. You can call me a hardliner.
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August 4, 2019 11:03am
MH

was there any comment on KB re the king of Saudi Arabia sponsoring up to 200 relatives and survivors of the despicable act of mass murder in Christchurch, with an all paid for visit to the hajj ? Blood money when one considers the King’s son is heavily suspect by the UN investigator in the death and assassination of Jamal Khashoggi. Is there any morality in acceptance? Do they not see the insensitivity or irony in acceptance as NZers, what if it had been a Kiwi journalist?
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August 4, 2019 11:10am
Monique Watson

And before I get bitched out. How could you say that about the nice old lady who “snapped” in a fit and now has enough gumption to plead guilty?

Fantastic. Like she’s going in for long either way. Gets a break from childcare duty. If she pleads manslaughter that devalues the life of a teen. Stupid liberal fucktard prisoner-right advocates and their hanky wringing blathering.
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August 4, 2019 11:11am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I concur Monique. Kudos to her for pleading guilty at the first opportunity. If there are mitigating factors due to stress etc, the time for those to be offered is at sentencing.
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:25pm
dubya

Sure, I understand why a lot of people outside of the cities buy utes. But talk to any accountant working in a SME which runs vehicle fleets and they’ll agree FBT exemptions fuel company vehicle choices. In my own workplace, you get to choose between a diesel ute with company signwriting (an FBT requirement) or a car allowance paid direct as part of your salary to spend as you wish.

I’m sure you’ve noticed there’s an awful lot of flash new double cab utes last time you visited Auckland or Christchurch – and they’re not owned by lost farmers. Do they all need a ute? Probably not. Did they get one, over say a station wagon, at least partly because of the tax benefits? Likely.
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August 4, 2019 11:14am
- CJames
  
  Dubya – the tax rules need adjustment – accepted. But a lot of people do need 4WD utes (not SUVs) especially twin cab ones, as part of their work.
  Forestry and Agriculture are the big two, but there are a lot of tradies that use them as well because a white van is too easy to break into. The government will likely change the rules, but penalized the rural folk for the cities’ sins.
  Most of the drivers of them I know are private users so the tax benefits don’t apply for them. I do note however, it’s not a real ute unless it has artificial grass on the bonnet.
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:09pm
- CJames
  
  And why have a 4WD ute?- it is so passe for the Remuera crowd. That’s why they are going for helicopters.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255450
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:12pm
- yossarian
  
  I spoke with an accountant who specialises in liquidating assets in businesses who go insolvent and nearly all, bar a few involved Ford Rangers…
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:41pm
Yvette

Ihumātao – SOUL – Action Station –
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August 4, 2019 11:14am
Martin Williams

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The violent right wing strikes again. White supremacist presumably ‘just protecting his race’ kills 20 innocents in an El Paso shopping mall.

It’s one of the big questions of our time: Why is the right wing so violent? Not enough hugs as children?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/114736833/us-police-warn-of-an-active-shooter-at-mall-in-el-paso-texas
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August 4, 2019 12:02pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Heard of Stalin? Mao? Real Right-wingers. As for you, I suspect you are revealing too much about your self…..
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:20pm
  - Swifty
    
    Substitute Muslim in Martin’s piece above for right winger/supremacist and I think the HRC would label this a piece of hate speech and bigotry.
    
    Tarring a whole group of people with the actions of one.
    
    If this guy is a candidate for election, as some here have said he is, then he should be more careful what he writes in my view.
    
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    August 4, 2019 3:14pm
  - stephieboy
    
    rightoverlabour,
    
    Hilter evens up the scales somewhat don’t you think?
    
    Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin
    by Timothy Snyder
    
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6572270-bloodlands
    
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    August 4, 2019 6:28pm
- rangitoto
  
  Is this shooter a Green eco freak like Tarrant?
  
  10 1
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  August 4, 2019 1:21pm
  - DoctorDoc
    
    Yes he’s a far-right white nationalist like Tarrant. In his manifesto posted online he rages about Hispanic immigration and Democrats.
    
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    August 4, 2019 2:25pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Don’t be too quick to label this lunatic Martin. I have seen suggestions that the killer is a registered Democrat.
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:26pm
  - DoctorDoc
    
    Lol nope. Read the killers manifesto – it’s all about how he hates Hispanic immigration and Democrats and is angry that there are some Republicans who are pro-immigration.
    
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    August 4, 2019 2:27pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Isn’t it an offence to read manifestos such as these?
      
      6 0
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      August 4, 2019 4:13pm
      - The King
        
        Yes, you must believe what the media tells you how it is, not from the actual murderer.
        
        6 2
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        August 4, 2019 5:10pm
- kowtow
  
  Only he’s not “right wing” , can’t be.
  
  Genuine right wingers respect the individual and their rights . People who take the law into their own hands and do violence to others by definition do not respect the individual .
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:27pm
  - DoctorDoc
    
    The old ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy ey.
    
    You sound like those dumb lefties who claim that all failed communist states werent actually communist.
    
    2 9
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    August 4, 2019 2:29pm
    - kowtow
      
      Nah , nothing worn under a Scotsmans’ kilt ……….
      
      ……all in purfect working order .
      
      Ba dum tish.
      
      3 2
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      August 4, 2019 5:16pm
- The King
  
  Pretty rich coming from people like you who claimed muslims mass murdering in Europe were actually the “real victims”.
  
  “Why is the right wing so violent”
  
  I dunno man maybe getting your 5 year old White kid thrown off a 3 story balcony by blacks because he hates Whites or the thousands murdered by Illegals might play a part in it.
  
  Just a guess.
  
  This is your “diversity” working as intended by our so-called elites who want exactly what is happening – conflict.
  
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  August 4, 2019 2:53pm
  - Martin Williams
    
    Out of all the nut-jobs on this forum, you sir are a real worry.
    
    2 15
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    August 4, 2019 5:16pm
    - Swifty
      
      What is it like to be a bigot Martin?
      
      Genuine question.
      
      6 2
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      August 4, 2019 6:31pm
    - The King
      
      My thoughts and prayers are with members of the ̶M̶u̶s̶l̶i̶m̶ White community that will inevitably face more censorship in the backlash of this tragic violence.
      
      It’s ok Martin, i don’t have a violent bone in my body, just a disdain for plebs like yourself.
      
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      August 4, 2019 7:31pm
- MCos
  
  Reports I have read indicate he is a xenophobic terrorist with not much love for the Republicans and particularly Democrats. He believes both parties are responsible for for the ‘loathsome’ Latino immigrants.
  Some of his victims were Mexican.
  Whether he is left wing right wing doesn’t matter much unless you insist on pidgeon holing everybody you don’t like into a political grouping you don’t like.
  
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  August 4, 2019 2:59pm
- Swifty
  
  Thanks for confirming that you believe all Muslims support ISIS, Martin, and the ones in NZ should attract deep suspicion.
  
  I personally don’t share that view but good to know all the same.
  
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  August 4, 2019 3:07pm
- BananaLlama
  
  Maybe he was Angry about that Muslim stabbing people to death with a sword in Germany?. Going to get alot more Toxic before it gets any better.
  
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  August 4, 2019 5:35pm
Hugh Pavletich

… CHINA …

China Wants to Hit Back at Trump. Its Own Economy Stands in the Way. – The New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/02/business/trump-tariffs-china-trade.html

BEIJING — As China considers ways to retaliate against President Trump’s mounting tariffs, it has increasingly acknowledged that it must first address its main obstacle to punching back: its own slumping economy.

Chinese officials have vowed to respond with measures of their own if Mr. Trump follows through on his threat to put 10 percent tariffs on $300 billion in Chinese imports a year. If Mr. Trump enacts the tariffs next month, as he said he would do on Thursday, the costs would rise for nearly everything China ships to the United States, from shoes to car parts to the latest gadgets. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… but realistically, do Chinese commercial entities have the pricing power with global competition ? …

Trump’s latest tariff may finally send J.C. Penney into its grave (silly title) … Yahoo Finance

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-latest-tariff-may-finally-send-jc-penney-into-the-grave-151056277.html
.
.
… and an earlier excellent article on China’s grossly out of control housing market …

China’s empty homes may prove a bigger threat than Donald Trump’s tariffs … Michael Janda … ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-14/china-vacant-property-empty-homes-donald-trump-tariffs/11082900

Build it and they will come. That is the philosophy underpinning modern China’s urban fields of dreams. …

In some senses they have, and do, come. But they are not residents or businesses in many of China’s gleaming new towers. They are investors — speculators betting that property values only go up as China’s population moves indefinitely in just one direction, from country to city. …

… To give you a better sense of the scale of China’s overbuilding, assuming a reasonably generous average of 80sqm of floorspace per new dwelling, that is 80 million units that are currently sitting empty. … read more via hyperlink above …
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August 4, 2019 12:08pm
Happychappy

Anyone think that Jacinda will make this a captain’s call now she has the international media taking up the story.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/03/maori-protest-camp-sacred-land-developer
Is she prepared to put some political capital on the table to side with the Greens.
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August 4, 2019 12:38pm
- greybeard
  
  Jacinda is thick.
  She does what Helen tells her to do.
  She has been a Helen proxy for years.
  
  7 2
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  August 4, 2019 6:27pm
KevO'Brien

Ihumātao
Politicians beware of assisting the law breaking or they may be facing commercial claims for damages. Ardern is outside her authority and her home may be in jeopardy over this. Unlawful actions may have legal consequences. The PM is not our Queen.
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August 4, 2019 1:13pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The PM should read this piece by Willie Jackson, who, whilst I seldom agree with much he says, has got this one spot on.
  
  Jackson said he empathises with the protesters, saying the outcome is “an injustice upon an injustice upon an injustice”, but having bought into the settlement process, the iwi has done the right thing.
  
  “The people who made the deal are being rubbished – it’s like, ‘silly old kaumatuas, sellouts’ and all that. Whatever. They took an opportunity because this is the process that our people have bought into…
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/07/ihum-tao-an-injustice-but-the-iwi-s-deal-should-be-respected-willie-jackson.html
  
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  August 4, 2019 1:53pm
Straight arrow

Marama Davidson worried about people not being in “warm, dry and safe homes” from her speech today.
There are 480 warm, dry and safe homes that could be built in Ihumātao if her lot got off the site.
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August 4, 2019 1:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are we now to have housing by right of stupidity? What gives Davidvon’s advocees rights above others?
  Are we to have a privileged class claiming they must be given all because they feel disadvantaged or prefer to be scrappers?
  
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  August 4, 2019 2:25pm
- DigNap15
  
  yes it would be good if the govt advised people to get a good job, stay off drugs, marry a good person, save some money and buy a nice warm house, and then have two children.
  
  9 2
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  August 4, 2019 4:24pm
  - Martin Williams
    
    There is an upside to your logic. John Key would never have been born.
    
    2 19
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    August 4, 2019 7:42pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Fuck, I suspected you were a lunatic and now you’ve just proved it.
      
      6 2
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      August 4, 2019 9:14pm
noskire

Researchers conclude livestock have no detectable effect on climate
14 1
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August 4, 2019 2:34pm
Happychappy

Twelve new radiation machines to replace those that are out of date but no new plan or cancer agency to fight cancer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255486
It is medicine at a realistic price that people also want but you subsidize and splash money around the Pacific Islands but give two fingers to those that medicine’s could help in NZ. This Government is a total disgrace.
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August 4, 2019 2:48pm
- DigNap15
  
  yes and can someone explain about dhp deficits.
  Does that mean they have to go into overdraft, and therefore pay interest
  I realise they should try to stick to budgets
  But why don’t they cut staff or budgets to remain in credit?
  How long can this go on?
  
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  August 4, 2019 4:42pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Linacs are very useful but they need specialist staff and facilities. This is not an overnight fix.
  They work as ultrahigh power Xray machines and by clever CT and MRI scans it is possible to locate a tumour in 3D space as an object to a millimetre. The treatment machine under guided computer control moves to zap the tumour from different positions.
  
  I had such treatment over 10 years ago and after initial scans it only an hour on four consecutive afternoons to administer. At that time the Hospital provided for transport from Wellington to Dunedin return with accommodation. The treatment was painless and avoided neurosurgery. Later MRI scans have proven it worked.
  
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  August 4, 2019 5:32pm
  - MickMac
    
    Please dont forget kev,
    5 “new ” machines are just replacing 10yr old coming up for replacement.
    then mid central loses 2 of theirs to Hawks bay and Taranaki where they’ll need to build 2 bunkers.
    the staff will probably move over, but service will be close to home, not a 5 hr drive.
    
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    August 4, 2019 10:14pm
niggly

Looks like Labour are panicking about the Part-Time PM & Missing In Action PM coverage …. Jacinda has popped out of nowhere to make a Govt funding announcement … on a Sunday!

I wish Labour would stop exploiting her like this (when they are under pressure) … unlike Jacinda who has a family to contend with on a Sunday it looks like those who are exploiting her don’t (that includes the likes of Robbo)!
19 1
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August 4, 2019 3:43pm
- DigNap15
  
  Will she claim overtime for “working” on a sunday?
  
  10 1
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  August 4, 2019 4:44pm
- sooty
  
  Is she on a fixed rate or overtime?
  
  4 1
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  August 4, 2019 4:55pm
  - niggly
    
    It’s ok comrades her overtime pay will be given to a charity … like the NZ Labour Party for instance!
    
    3 0
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    August 4, 2019 5:48pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I didn’t know the PM was the Health Minister…
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114741570/government-announces-package-to-aid-cancer-treatment-in-the-regions
  
  seems she wants to hog the Good News limelight….
  
  Poor old Dr Clark.
  
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  August 4, 2019 5:23pm
  - niggly
    
    Heh good point, Mr Clark seems to only be fronting “bad news” stories of late and just when he’s about to get a chance to announce some “good news” … Robbo & co decide Jacinda should front it (and distract from all the other major issues like Ihumātao etc … gee does Labour extract their pound of flesh or what?)!!
    
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    August 4, 2019 5:41pm
  - sooty
    
    He’s in whitless protection, to protect us!
    
    5 1
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    August 4, 2019 6:03pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Was this package in the budget? If not, what servces are they planning to cut?
    
    4 1
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    August 4, 2019 7:40pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114741570/government-announces-package-to-aid-cancer-treatment-in-the-regions

Amazing how a week in Tuvalu at our expense can initiate such a response.

No doubt if she went to Rarotonga for a month or so she would afterwards declare that all primary school children will henceforth have free breakfasts, lunches, shoes and travel expenses.
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August 4, 2019 4:32pm
Happychappy

I wonder what’s happened to Shane Jones obviously all piss and wind before his meeting with the Australian ANZ head executive but not a lot to say afterwards, maybe got put in his place and waiting till he gets back to NZ before he decides to trout mouth his side of the meeting.
9 1
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August 4, 2019 4:45pm
kowtow

The Green delegates heading to the airport ( leaving their conference and a carbon footprint) will be able to witness first hand the climate emergency recently declared in Daft Dunners , it’s snowing !
15 0
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August 4, 2019 4:51pm
Swifty

The Moggcast on Youtube – FYI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnWVY8u7PLw
1 0
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August 4, 2019 6:02pm
mikenmildagain

Another very powerfully worded column from Croaking Cassandra on the craven submission of New Zealand politicians and universities to the whim of the Beijing dictators:
https://croakingcassandra.com/2019/08/03/contemptible/
6 3
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August 4, 2019 6:28pm
Alan Wilkinson

I trust the Greens are approving the jewel robbers who have converted to public transport. Fortunately the police haven’t:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12255535
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August 4, 2019 7:13pm
rightoverlabour

greens are wasting their time… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL6uB1z95gA
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August 4, 2019 9:25pm
Hugh Pavletich

UNITED STATES …

… What does leading American builder D R Horton know that State / Local governments and other builders have yet to learn ? …

How D.R. Horton, late in the cycle, lifted home closings 13%: ‘It’s all about price’ | Commentary | Mitchell Schnurman | Dallas News

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2019/08/04/dr-horton-lifts-home-closings-13-late-cycle-price

… extracts …

… But take some comfort in the latest results from D.R. Horton, the nation’s largest homebuilder. On Wednesday, the Arlington company reported that home closings soared 13% in the latest quarter, extending a streak of double-digit gains that started in 2012.

Horton is on pace to close almost 57,000 homes this fiscal year, finally topping its previous peak in 2006, just before the housing crash.

Its stock price has roared back, too. Horton’s market value tops $17 billion, up from $2.9 billion eight years ago. And last week, the company’s board authorized $1 billion in stock buybacks. …

One key to its run: Horton has ramped up construction of lower-priced homes, appealing to first-time buyers and empty-nesters looking for more affordable options. …

… “The demand is there, if you can position and drive a price that they can buy,” Auld said.

Horton has a deep supply of land — 300,000 lots either owned or controlled. And it operates in 87 markets in 29 states. … read more via hyperlink above …

D R HORON – AMERICA’S LARGEST HOMEBUILDER

https://www.drhorton.com/

… Earlier MacroBusiness Australia ‘United States’ post …

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/08/weekend-reading-3-4-august-2019/#comment-3403791
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August 5, 2019 3:11am
MARKSALA

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You can go through is website https://bubaherbalmiraclemedicine.wordpress.com/
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August 5, 2019 7:27pm

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