General Debate 5 June 2019

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mikenmildagain

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Happy World Environment Day!
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June 5, 2019 8:01am
- rangitoto
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7103847/Anti-trump-activists-leave-mountain-litter-listening-ranting-Corbyn-blast-Trump.html
  
  Not if the anti Trumpers can help it.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    So? They were protesting against Trump, who is probably the world’s greatest environmentalist.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:29am
    - burt
      
      In other news;
      
      Anti battery hen campaigners hand out battery hen egg sandwiches and mikenmild defends it saying ‘other people eat them too’.
      
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      June 5, 2019 8:37am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Why do you hate the environment? Shouldn’t you be praising Mr Trump for his leadership in saving the planet?
        
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        June 5, 2019 8:40am
      - carl wiekart
        
        Hypocrisy is not in the liberal dictionary
        
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        June 5, 2019 8:43am
      - sooty
        
        Sorry I reported by mistake.
        
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        June 5, 2019 10:15am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Miken’s new trolling trick. As soon as someone disagrees with him, he uses the word ‘hate’.
        
        Using the word ‘hate’ for every little disagreement just cheapens its meaning. And it’s very boring.
        
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        June 5, 2019 11:32am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Sure, that’s Classic trick. You don’t want to highlight Trump’s great environmental record – so you just try to smear someone who does as a troll.
        
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        June 5, 2019 12:43pm
      - MCos
        
        Why do you loathe m’m’again?
        
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        June 5, 2019 1:00pm
    - backster
      
      So they couldn’t get the teachers and small children to take a day off school.
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:14am
      - sooty
        
        Not woke enough, or are they going to piss the parents more by striking after the secondry schools go back?
        
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        June 5, 2019 12:58pm
srylands

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12224859

I feared this would happen. Stop upgrading roads and reduce the open road speed limit to 80 kmh.
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June 5, 2019 8:01am
- Brian Marshall
  
  Not only do the government not want us to use plastic bags, they want to control our freedom to travel, what to think and what to say.
  This is what a dictatorship starts to look like and I’m getting angry…
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Too true. Changing speed limits was one of the first things Mussolini did after seizing power. It’s a well-recognised hallmark of emerging totalitarianism.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:22am
    - dubya
      
      I thought Mussolini was lauded for his public transportation initiatives?
      
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      June 5, 2019 8:44am
      - stephieboy
        
        dubya, only making the Trains run on time which is disputed by many!
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:18am
    - mandk
      
      Keep going, mma, and they might eventually honour you by establishing a World Smart-arse Day.
      
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      June 5, 2019 8:57am
      - herb1
        
        The word smart is superfluous in your post
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:11am
  - srylands
    
    There is no point in having a speed limit that people hold in contempt.
    
    In Christchurch cbd the speed limit is 30 kmh. It is ignored. Yesterday evening I drove at 30 as an experiment. EVERY car passed me at between 40 and 50. Where it was one lane, a line quickly developed behind me. Of course that behaviour is not risk free. If you are caught driving in the 30 zone at 61 kmh you will lose your licence for three months and face a large fine. Even at 50 it would be nasty.
    
    There are currently some roads with 100 speed limits that, in places, are often not safe at 100. So drive at 80. 100 is not compulsory. There are also many roads where 100 is ridiculously slow. On long straight empty roads in Canterbury, 120 is perfectly safe.
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:25am
    - septic skeptic
      
      A lot of these supposedly unsafe rural roads are figured unsafe at “x” speed due to bends. You can’t legislate for that, drivers need to moderate speed according to their vehicle and ability. An Aston Martin handles a bit differently to a 6 berth camper. So who is the reference for the “safe” speed? Are locals going to be fined because it would not be safe for a tourist driving a camper maybe for the first time and maybe never having driven on the left before?
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:15am
    - John Warren
      
      That is my experience of driving in the Christchurch CBD. In fact, I hold it in contempt myself. As do, so it seems, the police. I’ve driven through there at 50 or so kph, with a police car maintaining a steady distance ahead of me.
      
      Christchurch drivers, among them me, also hold in contempt the stupid fucking cycle green light that comes on when there are no cyclists to be seen for miles, preventing cars from turning left, and resulting in a blocked left lane because there’s now no longer a dedicated left turn lane thanks the empty cycle lane taking up all the real estate.
      
      Once I’d seen about half a dozen cars ignore the cycle light and turn left anyway, I reckoned I’d do it too. Better than having the entire left lane brought to a halt for hundreds of metres because one poor driver wants to turn left.
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:22am
      - srylands
        
        That is interesting. I am new to Christchurch and I have never seen a cyclist when the green cycle light changes.
        
        Similarly, this is this bizarre thing when you try to turn right on to Straven Road from Rochdale Street. When Straven Road is busy you can’t get a break. But for cyclists there is a button to push that makes the red “cyclist signal” go green. Then all the cars stop and the cyclist can cross the road. And if you have a car you can turn right, when the cyclist activates the signal. So the traffic signals are ONLY for cyclists. I thought I was imagining this, but it seems to be the case.
        
        So last Saturday I was trying to turn right into Straven Road. No luck. Endless lines of cars. I waited for a cyclist to help me out. No luck. So I get out of the car, walk over to the “cyclist button” press it, run back to car. All the cars stop. Turn right.
        
        This is what we have come to.
        
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        June 5, 2019 1:08pm
- pdm
  
  The most dangerous driver on our roads is an impatient driver.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:14am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Perhaps government funding could be made available to offer mindfulness courses for impatient drivers who find it difficult to regulate their own behaviour.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:26am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Perhaps government funding could be made available to offer mindfulness courses for govt. ministers who find it difficult to regulate their own behaviour and thought process’.
      There…fixed it for ya.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:19am
    - Tall Man
      
      How about we just ban labour voters from driving fullstop?
      
      That works for me.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:31am
    - srylands
      
      Perhaps the police could target stupid people. If I can see them, I am sure the police can.
      
      How about the drivers who refuse to turn on their headlights until it is totally dark? If 98 percent of drivers have their lights on, wake the f*** up.
      
      Or the classic I saw yesterday next to me at a red light. A young woman, wearing a lime green hoody, eyes wide and staring, leaning over the steering wheel and with no seat belt. Will she be stopped? Unlikely. The police are too busy pulling over people doing 40 in the CBD. Yet that young woman is highly likely to kill someone.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:34am
      - sooty
        
        Hopefully Darwin is just around the corner and she only does herself!
        
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        June 5, 2019 10:19am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        The police are likely under pressure not to ticket too many members of “oppressed” groups as this will make the statistics look bad, in the eyes of people who demand equality of outcome.
        Hence the aggressive patrolling in “oppressor” areas, in an effort to achieve that highly sought-after outcome.
        
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        June 5, 2019 10:21am
      - Happychappy
        
        People in HawkesBay fear reckless drivers more than they fear drivers speeding, this is a great article with two different maps showing where those that have been killed and those with serious injuries.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=1
        Does this Government know how to fix anything.
        
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        June 5, 2019 11:40am
      - Batman
        
        That map comes from the NZTA and has been co-opted by the Herald as their own, the cheap bastards
        
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        June 5, 2019 11:47am
  - Sacha
    
    – the impatient city driver who thinks he has ‘the right’ to drive at 100kph.
    – the driver who sits on the bumper as he would do driving up Queen St at 5kph in heavy traffic. Heaven help us all if I have to brake suddenly – most likely because one of his mates is overtaking a trailer truck coming in the opposite direction.
    Provincial drivers who know the road, don’t speed.
    
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    June 5, 2019 12:17pm
- SJ Actual
  
  That is certainly the approach they have taken in Wellington. The “regions most dangerous road”, SH58, was going to get significant upgrades. However all that has happened is that the speed limit has been reduced to 80 and the funding for upgrades is no longer available.
  This despite the huge forecast in additional traffic on the road when Transmission Gully opens.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:49am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Nobody has mentioned one elephant in the room: people falling asleep at the wheel. How much more likely will that be with journeys taking much longer?
  
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  June 5, 2019 12:02pm
  - MCos
    
    If you drive at 90 kpm that’s 7min/100km extra time.
    I doubt if the extra time is going to make you go to sleep.
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:11pm
    - srylands
      
      No but the sheer boredom of driving at 90 will send many drivers to sleep.
      
      Also if the speed limit is reduced to 80 kmh, the time difference for a 300 km journey is 45 minutes. And driving at 80 would send most drivers to sleep.
      
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      June 5, 2019 1:44pm
Tony Stuart

So; NZTA is planning on dropping the speed limit on many open roads to between 60 and 80km/h.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12224859

Is this nothing more than a cynical ploy to get us out of our cars and onto public transport? I see the fingerprints of Julie Anne Genter all over this.
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June 5, 2019 8:04am
- gorse
  
  And watch the road toll keep rising as frustrated and impatient driver take risks passing.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:06am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    And if cars are limited to 80, trucks will have to be limited to 70, with massive effects on the cost of moving goods.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:23am
  - kowtow
    
    Nothing about drivers who don’t pay attention to what they’re doing , ie on the phone ,texting etc .
    
    Also the Greens would unleash a storm of stoned drivers on the roads with only a strip of paint to keep them from you …….
    
    And they talk of public safety .
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:26am
    - sooty
      
      Is the lowered speed limit designed for when we get all the stoned drivers the greenies want?
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:22am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes. Remember,this is about state highways managed by NZTA.
  
  This has her finger prints all over it, in an attempt to divert money to urban public transport and reduce road maintenance.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:16am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Point to point speed cameras will be going in as well.
    Probably on the motorways- which are our safest roads, which defeats the idea that they are about road safety not revenue gathering
    https://www.nzta.govt.nz/safety/our-vision-of-a-safe-road-system/average-speed-cameras/
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:40am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Since the biggest cost of transporting goods, is truck drivers wages.
  How much will costs go up when it takes 20% longer to transport these goods?
  Will companies have to hire more drivers?…cost!!
  Impact on inflation.
  If companies use trains…what about the truck driving jobs?
  Question:
  Do these idiots in the CoL EVER, do a pro’s and con’s list on their decisions?
  Suggest the key thought should be…
  Suppose we do this, what is the consequence?
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    With fuel prices at near-record highs, the Transport Industry is really going to love this suggestion. I suggest we might see some rolling blockades of the roads, to give motorists a foretaste of what to expect in the future.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:40am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Indeed Tony. Surely we must have some French truckies on our roads today? They now how to organise a jolly good protest 🙂
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:01am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Absolutely krazykiwi, plus farmers with their diesel smoke-breathing tractors. This could be great fun!
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:26am
      - sooty
        
        Just imagine trucks taking up every lane on the motorway going at 15km. A rolling blockage!
        
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        June 5, 2019 10:25am
  - BassilFawlty
    
    Good points, also will 20% more trucks be required? Seems likely, this will also add to congestion.
    
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    June 5, 2019 10:05am
- Simon
  
  Drove into a police check point recently. You could see the check point a mile away and if you didnt want to be breathalysed you could make turn off the few streets before being stopped. Quite few took this option.
  
  When ask the cop why such a stupid set up (when we all know they aint that stupid.) He couldnt answer.
  
  The arrest rates at this stop zero.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:35am
  - sooty
    
    I think you might be wrong about how stupid the police are. Have you ever watched the nz police tv programs? I’m picking that they picked the best of the bunch to front them and some of the ones on the programs would give a short plank a run for their money!
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:06pm
  - MCos
    
    Alternatively they could have stood in the middle of the road with no indication they were there and get run over.
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:19pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Lower the speed linit on the open road to 80 km/h for 1 year. If the death toll doesn’t change, raise it to 120 km/h and compare the outcomes.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:49am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Put more overtaking lanes and encourage sensible driving for the conditions. I may exceed the speed limit where it’s safe, but I also pull over to let traffic overtake me when I’m on roads I don’t know and I’m holding up traffic. I figure most drivers drive to the conditions and the roads. We need more considerate driving rather than just a mandatory speed limit reductions.
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:25am
  - rangitoto
    
    From memory, the worst road toll was back in the 70’s. They lowered the speed limit and introduced carless days as a response to the so called Oil shocks. Didn’t improve the road toll much back when there were a lot fewer cars around than their are now.
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:09am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Rangitoto you are spot on, you are describing the late 1970s, early 1980s. By the mid 1980s they had also introduced random breath testing.
      
      They found then as they are now. Speed by itself is not the cause of the majority of road deaths. First it is the car itself, older cars do not have the safety features of modern vehicles and the chances of death are higher in older vehicles (ask the emergency services); second the age of drivers – two age groups disproportionately make up road injury and fatality statistics – the young and the elderly; substance and drink driving; are all factors contributing to road deaths more so than speed. Another factor that also features in some road deaths is the failure of the driver to drive to the road conditions – basically poor engineering of the roads coupled with inexperience and speed an there is a good chance of an accident.
      
      Given that Genter has taken her vision zero programme from Scandanavia, here is one statistic she will have come across. In 1997, Swedish researchers found that even if all drivers followed all road laws including the speed limit, the road toll would only fall 50%. Properly engineered vehicles and roads as single factors cause the biggest reduction in road deaths. Is she so arrogant as not to realise that other people have access to the information available to her?
      
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      June 5, 2019 1:50pm
  - greybeard
    
    I don’t think you should conflate the capability of vehicles to do 120kph and the ability of the average NZ driver to safely drive at that speed.
    What is the great problem with reducing the speed limit on selected open roads ? We all know most of the fatalities occur on roads outside urban areas, we all know many of our roads are narrow and/or windy and/or in crappy condition, we all know that many of our fatalities involve large trucks on provincial roads.
    Maybe have 100kph on motorways , expressways and divided roads and 80kph max for the rest
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:36am
    - Batman
      
      This is the key to it. We currently have a system where the default open road limit is 100kmh.
      
      Now that is genuinely insane for some windy and narrow roads. You’d never be able to drive at 100 on them anyway.
      
      So what we’re moving to is a system where the limit reflects the actual road.
      
      Motorways, easy roads and expressways etc will all still be 100 or 110.
      
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      June 5, 2019 11:50am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Duh
      People are taught to drive to the conditions- maybe the problem is they are not being taught so well these days
      We also already have signposts showing recommended speeds for corners.
      Do we really need to dumb things down so much that our judgement is removed completely?
      I think that’s counter productive.
      I’m for an honest discussion on this but I’d like to see a lot more on accidents and associated deaths than we do now.
      
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      June 5, 2019 12:31pm
      - Happychappy
        
        Road Transports Nick Leggett “slowing down speed limits will slow down the economy “.
        https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/nick-leggett-slowing-speed-limit-will-slow-the-economy/
        The Government are not happy unless they are creating misery iin peoples lives.
        
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        June 5, 2019 1:14pm
    - srylands
      
      All drivers should be confident driving at 120 on an uncrowded motorway in fine weather. Otherwise they should bot be on the road.
      
      Drive to the conditions. At Easter I drove to Queenstown in fog. Of course I did not drive at 100. I did not need the Government to tell me to lower my speed to between 60 and 70.
      
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      June 5, 2019 1:15pm
Maggie Pie

A UK follower tweets:
While the MSM and London Mayor Sadiq Khant are desperate to paint ‘The Donalds’ state visit as a flop – yuge crowds chant “We Love Trump” (vid) 🙂
https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1135989271461072896
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June 5, 2019 8:07am
- calendar girl
  
  Tried that link and got: “Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!)
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:06am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Weird. It worked for me when I clicked on it earlier and now doesn’t. It linked to this link https://uslibertywire.com/massive-london-crowd-stuns-cnn-chants-we-love-trump-video/
    Which also doesn’t exist anymore… weird very weird……
    (Just because I’m getting paranoid, doesn’t mean that they’re not out to get me ?)
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:31am
    - jonno1
      
      Clear the cache after each view and it reappears.
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:51am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Morning CG and BM. Tweet appears to have been suddenly removed for some reason. Very odd. Ryan is a political commentator and well worth following:
    https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/status/1135928140973391872
    
    [maybe it upset a few lefty flakes]
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:46am
- jonno1
  
  Gone from Twitter, but see my reply to Brian below.
  
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  June 5, 2019 10:56am
  - jonno1
    
    Above, sorry. Just clear the cache to see the original post again.
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:05am
Poppa

This proposed change to road speeds championed by that nutjob Genter has the potential to bring this govt down. It will be a step too far for most people.

It will be nanny state at its finest. I must say that woman sounds like finger nails on a blackboard
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June 5, 2019 8:07am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yep; it’s the coalition’s lightbulb and low-pressure showers moment.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:23am
- JB.49
  
  Anybody else remember “drive at 50 stay alive and thrifty”, and no, I’m not advocating it!
  
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  June 5, 2019 1:28pm
- MCos
  
  ‘Vote National and we’ll raise the speed limit’
  
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  June 5, 2019 1:29pm
Happychappy

This is just the start to get kiwirail up and running in Northland $1.4 Billion.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=12236883
On top of that you have the Ports what this all about. Winston won’t be leaving Parliament anytime in the near Future as this is his baby.
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June 5, 2019 8:08am
- hullkiwi
  
  Shows how much Winston knows. The money is 3 pots. $350mill for new rolling stock, $350mill for essential maintenance – which includes all the existing passenger network most of which is in a perilorluous state of repair and needs significant renewal (including the track used for Auckland & Wellington passenger services).
  
  When it comes to Northland, that leaves $550mill, all of which will have to come from the PGF. To upgrade the Northland track icludes:
  1. Enlarging 10 tunnels (to take larger containers);
  2. Upgrading & making side 7 bridges; and
  3 upgrading 120km of track.
  
  Now how much time and money is available?
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Now how much time and money is available?”
    
    Money is no object when you have your thrust firmly in the wallets of the NZ workers.
    
    Time may not be on their side however…………
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:16am
    - sooty
      
      Change of government or if Whinney falls off the perch. Nothing!
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:28am
Inandout

There was a male contestant on Garner’s 9 in 10 in which he was asked to name current NZ MPs. The unfortunate chap could answer just one, and it was…wait for it…that multinational Mother Teresa…that magazine hogger….Jacinda. He stalled at that name and went into blank country.
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June 5, 2019 8:11am
- kowtow
  
  Scary thing is she probably wasn’t even his local MP.
  
  Makes you wonder about the “benefits” of the universal franchise.
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:02am
mandk

They’re beginning to get it:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2019/06/why-your-reusable-shopping-bag-isn-t-better-than-a-single-use-plastic-one.html

I will continue to be virtuous by buying plastic bags in bulk and using them at least twice.
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June 5, 2019 8:14am
- Than
  
  I will continue to be virtuous by re-purposing single use plastic bags where I can (as rubbish bags, etc), and otherwise being sure to dispose of them in the recycling not the rubbish.
  
  I can’t say whether they actually get recycled or not (out of my control), but they should be. They’re a far more ideal candidate for recycling than many other items we throw in recycling bins.
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:21am
  - srylands
    
    You cant put soft plastic bags in the normal plastic recycling bins.
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:52pm
Happychappy

Can we be sure none of our civil servants are not members of this club and no MP’s have frequented this Club as you know how easy it was for JLR tocoever up his wrong doings.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/113212281/cannabis-campaigner-dakta-green-opens-cannabis-club-in-wellington-claiming-700-members.
Or is angry Andy stirring the pot.
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June 5, 2019 8:17am
- Tall Man
  
  He sure looks like the right kind of guy to be a spokesman for the consumption of illegal drugs….
  
  “Green, formerly Kenneth Morgan, opened the first cannabis club in West Auckland in 2009, which was police raided and closed. He was jailed for one year and 11 months.
  
  Green was also sentenced to two years and four months of imprisonment for possession of cannabis and cannabis resin for supply in 2015, and for 60 hours’ community work in 2018 on charges related to benefit fraud and forgery.”
  
  Benefit fraud and forgery… awesome, maybe he could get on the watermelon’s party list!
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:12am
  - sooty
    
    I’m sure he is already. Just not in the top 5!
    
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    June 5, 2019 10:31am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My mum reckons he was quite the entrepreneur!
    He set up Aucklands first casino in the 70’s using a hired boat that went out past the 12 mile limit. Went bust apparently 🙂
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:56am
G152

I see where the lord mayor of London is able to critise the American president without comment or censure but when the President returns the insults suddenly he’s the bad guy…
And as for the fat balloon I cant decide upon farce or funny seeing that all the ‘protests’ are being overflown or side tracked
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June 5, 2019 8:18am
- rangitoto
  
  Khan isn’t Lord Mayor of London. That’s a different position to Mayor of London.
  
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  June 5, 2019 12:34pm
  - Paulus
    
    Lord Mayor of London is only the Mayor of the square mile of the City of London.
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:41pm
Swifty

I urge all NZers to listen to this interview of Martin Wylie, CEO of Altus.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018697760#

Altus employ people who are highly mentally disadvantaged and enrich their, and their families, lives meaningfully as a result.

Some people, apparently, within and outside government want to abolish the ‘loophole’ that allows Altus to pay these people less than minimum wage. They believe it is ‘discriminatory’ to allow it to continue. Apparently the UN says so too.

Martin Wylie says that by doing so, Altus will collapse and everyone will lose. The people employed will lose, their families will lose and society will lose and for what? What will actually have been achieved by this drive to ‘end discrimination’.

The interview is a great lesson in the importance of valuing the ‘end’ as opposed to the ‘means’. I have not recently seen as good an example of how modern lefty thinking is so wrong-headed.

It is the triumph of virtue over better outcomes for people’s lives.
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June 5, 2019 8:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The workers in these sheltered workshops enjoy their work and lives immensely. They are content. Their productivity can never match more able people. Because of their lower pay and disabilities top up benefits assist.
  
  Taking away their work is to put them back on a full benefit without purpose.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:43am
  - Swifty
    
    I totally agree – well said.
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:27am
- Jules99
  
  The minimum wage is why so many people are working for free. Young people, migrants and disabled people now can’t get work paid at the minimum wage so have to volunteer to get experience on their CV. In the old days you could offer to work cheap – that’s now illegal.
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:58am
- Classic Liberal
  
  The interview was great. Wylie pointed out that the workers actually achieve minimum wage income p.w. because of course they get a disability benefit on top of the salary they earn. It’s just that the work can only be paid at the worth they are really producing. That way it can be run as a real business (charity, non profit of course). One simply can’t pay people much for slowly packing sample boxes or untangling headphones.
  
  The CoL will destroy these businesses in the name of ‘fairness’, and these people who really want to work will sit at home, no pride in working, no work mates.
  
  Wylie said that this government is saying something about funding the charities to somehow pay minimum wage, but his concern is that as governments come and go that funding will disappear, as it has in other countries, and the charity/business will collapse.
  
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  June 5, 2019 12:01pm
- MCos
  
  There is another side to this discussion.
  By the way a disability does not necessarily mean mental impairment.
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/30-05-2019/its-time-to-abolish-our-last-bastion-of-pay-discrimination/
  
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  June 5, 2019 2:00pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    How about hearing the interview first?
    
    He clarified that his charity is for people with severe mental impairment and that someone with full mental abilities but e.g. blind should be able to use the necessary technology for adjustment and receive full market rates for their skills.
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:03pm
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry, what MCos?
    
    Did you listen to the full interview?
    
    Wylie is talking about people with profound mental disadvantages. Profound.
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:09pm
Tony Stuart

This is absolutely disgusting. An elderly man turns out to support President Trump in London, and for his sins is pushed to the ground by a baying mob.

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1135995565077073921

These images are going around the world. And they are what will lead Trump to a second term next year, because people don’t like self-righteous bullies who beat up the elderly.
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June 5, 2019 8:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’m sure Mr Trump will calm things down by noting there are troublemakers on ‘both sides’.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:37am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes mikenmild, there are oafs on both sides. But I haven’t seen too many videos of gangs of Chelsea pensioners beating up left-wing, anti_trump activists with their Zimmer frames and walking sticks.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:44am
  - Tall Man
    
    How about you post a few clips of elderly left wing supporters being attacked in the street by supposedly normal people having a differing view.
    
    Oh that’s right, the left don’t want old… pal… and stale… white …. men!
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:01am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Yes, why do the SJWs still not get that they and their behaviour are doing more to empower and popularize Trump than anything the repulsive old turd has done or could do himself?
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:07am
  - Swifty
    
    Exactly.
    
    Their self-awareness is not yet developed…..
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:36am
- G152
  
  And why aren’t the British ‘bobbies’ controlling such mobs or have they orders other than what one expects?
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:30am
- BananaLlama
  
  This kind of shit is what radicalises people.
  
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  June 5, 2019 2:11pm
Captain Mainwaring

The gun buyback.
They’re talking about paying ‘market price’ for guns.
OK, many guns are now defined as illegal. So where is the market for an illegal gun, what is the market price and where is the incentive for whoever has it to hand it in?
This plan has all the makings of an enormous cockup.
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June 5, 2019 8:29am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It should not be the market price but the insured value. For firearms, under 5 years old it should be what they cost.
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:47am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t agree.
    
    Market value. Insured value is irrelevant for a personal item.
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:54am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      If this government decides to ban V8s should it be market value or insured value?
      
      It will be interesting to see the next poll. I believe the two main polling companies are polling now.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:05am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        Chuck. From my memory of reading common law on compulsory acquisitions, abet some years ago, it had to be at market value. Anything less than full market value was subject to the government being found against in the courts. Of course that was land acquisitions, but other property would also follow the same principles as land. Any lawyers able to give a more definitive answer re the firearms but back?
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:45am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Brian, in many cases the insured value is greater than the market value.
        
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        June 5, 2019 12:59pm
  - cmm
    
    Insured values are almost always lower.
    
    It should be the price that a person would be willing to sell it to a mate.
    
    Guns are, typically, not just items like cars but are typically tuned and tweaked like a custom racing bike.
    
    Thus a rifle bought for $1000 is typically worth $1500 at least.
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:03am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      But what’s it worth if it’s illegal? What mate is going to buy it?
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:30am
      - cmm
        
        We’re talking about establishing a fair price.
        
        That should be what you would have prepared to sell it for before it became illegal.
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is the racket to declare the guns illegal, offer a market price such as a fence would offer, box them all all up and sell them off to a Middle East dealer?
  
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  June 5, 2019 8:48am
  - mark15
    
    No.In an incredibly tyrannical move,Peters banned owners from exporting their guns to other countries ‘where they may cause mischief ‘ .
    But dealers can.
    Where’s
    The
    Logic
    ?
    
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    June 5, 2019 8:54am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That ban refers to owners. I suggested that the COL will ship to an overseas buyer.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:02am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        No. It will be a photo op with the smiling and nodding one turning a leaver to activate a machine that destroys weapons of hate and bring love and rainbows to Aotearoa.
        ??
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:48am
    - Tall Man
      
      Silly Mark…. who needs logic when you can get a selfie and a hug.
      
      Just check your wallet when she’s done with the feelz.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:02am
    - Jack5
      
      Who does Peters stand for other than himself?
      
      He’s betrayed nearly every section of those who gave him a party vote.
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:07am
      - G152
        
        I’m waiting for the Peters apology about the accuracy of the ‘hacked’ numbers from the Budget.
        Misleading Parliament is supposed to be a crime
        
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        June 5, 2019 9:33am
- Jack5
  
  The gun buyback … Meanwhile in Australia’s Northern Territory there’s been a mass shooting.
  
  Weren’t we told that Australia’s gun ownership reforms ended mass shootings?
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/multiple-fatalities-man-arrested-after-fatal-shooting-in-darwin-police-20190604-p51uj5.html
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:13am
- Colville
  
  The most important thing with a guns price is…
  
  Never….Ever…sell it for the price you told you wife you paid for it! 🙂
  
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  June 5, 2019 6:50pm
  - Colville
    
    But seriously…
    
    any AR15 in 223 will have a supressor added…(500) a bipod…(100)… Scope and mounts (500 – 1500).. reloading gear…cases…mags….
    
    Do you take all this stuff off…or leave it on? if they are paying retail for the add ons…then you leave it on…because its fuck all use to you after the gun is gone.
    
    A fully kitted AR15 could easy be $5,000.
    
    The COL is about $500Mil out with its $168Mil allowance too.!
    
    and so they take your Ecat off you…do they give you the $2500 for the Ecat safe you dont need anymore?
    
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    June 5, 2019 6:55pm
dubya

Jarrod Gilbert bleating about the well-being of the country being able to be measured against how many white supremacists we have.

Isn’t this the same guy who creams himself over the token charity initiatives of brown gang members, whilst glossing over their overwhelmingly violent modus operandi?
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June 5, 2019 8:48am
cmm

Herald Fake News

“Dr Jarrod Gilbert: White supremacy – An ugly problem that is becoming harder to measure ”

And they have a photo to bolster the credibility of their story. Photo credits: Getty Images.

Getty’s comment says: A young skinhead displays a tattoo on the back of his neck that reads “Skinhead.” The boy is in Palm Beach, Florida, where several white supremacist groups have come together for a march.

So a photo not taken in NZ, but USA.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12237204

Of course it is hard to measure skinheads in NZ. They’re in Florida!

Damn liars!
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June 5, 2019 8:58am
- Gravelroad
  
  Always remember for the left wing media in this country: the ends justify the means.
  Doesn’t matter where the photo comes from and we can just make up stuff to legitimise our agenda. If someone finds out that it’s not quite true – we don’t care.
  We take our moral approach from the deputy Prime Minister.
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:11am
- Jack5
  
  Gilbert seems to go out riding with bikies, not always with harmless results ….
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/78298800/gang-expert-jarrod-gilbert-breaks-arm-leg-ribs-in-motorbike-crash
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:20am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Do you think any of the bikie gang members had supremacist tattoos on their necks?
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:36am
    - Jack5
      
      The report I link to above says Gilbert was hurt on a “poker run” to Sheffield. It also includes:
      
      “Police said about 80 gang members, many from the Rebels gang, were drinking in Sheffield on Saturday.”
      
      You can get a glimpse of Rebels gang tattoos in this illustrated report:
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/81196483/rebels-motorcycle-club-quits-christchurch-headquarters
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:02am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  cmm, fake news ??
  
  I don’t think so,
  
  Skinheads attack Muslim women,
  
  A woman who stepped in to stop skinheads tearing the hijabs off three Muslim women in Dunedin says she is disappointed other bystanders failed to intervene in the racist attack.
  
  Speaking on condition of anonymity, the woman said she was in Albion Pl in the central city last week when she saw two male skinheads and their female accomplice approach three Muslim women waiting in the lane.
  
  The group attacked the women, attempting unsuccessfully to tear off their hijabs while subjecting them to a torrent of racist abuse.
  
  ”Two skinheads and a girl came up trying to rip their [veils] off their heads, saying: ‘Go back to your own … [expletive] country!’.”
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/crime/skinheads-attack-muslim-women
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:34am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s disgusting stephie, but no more or less disgusting than gangs of Muslim men in the UK grooming young girls for sex.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/29/rotherham-grooming-gang-seven-men-convicted-of-sexual-offences
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:40am
  - cmm
    
    Ok, then put up a photo of some skin heads in Dunedin or this poor Muslim woman.
    
    It is disingenuous and misleading Fake News to put up a picture of a Florida skinhead to bolster the story about NZ.
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:44am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You don’t believe there are skinheads in Dunedin?
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:33am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Pete George ?
        
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        June 5, 2019 11:33am
      - Jack5
        
        Skinheads – that’s out of date as a style of protest against mainstream society.
        
        It began with long, flowing hair for males when short back and sides and crew cuts lingered as the mainstream. Then variations
        
        Then the tatooed, spiked skinheads arose.
        
        As you look around now, middle-class and middle-class aspirants at the first sign of balding typically shave their heads. Well dressed, tidy, ambitious citizens without head hair.
        
        The outlaw young need a new hairstyle.
        
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        June 5, 2019 12:09pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Miken hates the follicly challenged…
        
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        June 5, 2019 12:50pm
      - cmm
        
        “You don’t believe there are skinheads in Dunedin?”
        
        SO put up pictures of Dunedin skinheads then. No need for the fake news photos from Florida.
        
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        June 5, 2019 1:06pm
  - Inandout
    
    Makes it easy to say Islam is a race by joining the dots, whereas the ISIS brides in the UK are mainly white.
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:03am
    - stephieboy
      
      Inandout, thus religious belief is exclusively race based?
      
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      June 5, 2019 11:19am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Stephie’s right for once: religion is *not* race. We should never accept that false statement.
        
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        June 5, 2019 12:52pm
Maggie Pie

A girl at work was telling us she saw this truly horrific story being discussed on Sky News last night. It is one of the most dreadful things i have ever heard about. Lest we forget 🙁
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-47796046
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June 5, 2019 9:02am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Has certainly happened to billions given about 15% of hunter-gatherer remains show evidence of violence and there are estimated to have been ~100 billion people through history. We don’t know how lucky we are
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:50am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Lots of similar massacres in WWII.
  
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  June 5, 2019 10:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    you miss the point once again milk – the absolute dreadfulness is about
    the cover up!
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:37am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The ‘cover up’ in this case appears to have been for the sake of the victims and their families. Victims of rape are very often silenced today; imagine the attitudes in Australia in the 1940s. Given that none of the murderers were identified, it’s pretty easy to understand why most involved didn’t want more horrific publicty to upset the families.
      
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      June 5, 2019 3:41pm
- stephieboy
  
  A good reason why the Japanese Prime Minister ! Abe needs to do a pilgrimage to Nanking and kneel as the Willy Brandt did at the Warsaw Ghetto recognising Japan’s complicity and involvement in these kind of WW2 atrocities,
  
  https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/warschauer-kniefall-1970/
  
  It is only then that Japan can move forward in good conscience and honour!
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:53am
- Jules99
  
  While I tend to think that transparency is best, I think it would have caused the families additional pain to know their loved ones had suffered so much before they died. Those were different times.
  
  Feminists historians, of course, want to turn the tragedy into a political point trying to link it to ‘me-too’ movement. A reminder, if it were needed, of the risk to women in war zones where decent human behaviour breaks down.
  
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  June 5, 2019 12:07pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It is a valid and necessary link. Even today, victims of sexual assault frequently have their credibility questioned for not acting sooner.
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:44pm
Tauhei Notts

Update on the British Tory leader betting market.
Boris, who opened as a 40% chance, then drifted to 37%, has firmed in the market to 51%.
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June 5, 2019 9:03am
Happychappy

Barely Sober comments on Winston’s 40th anniversary in politics.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1223733
You wouldn’t believe after all his lies that the voter will still give him the chance to screw NZ’s.
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June 5, 2019 9:05am
- Happychappy
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12237335
  Try this on Winston fire Brand on politics. 40 Year anniversary of being in Parliament.
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:15am
Fletch

Someone at Newshub finally realizes that the old ‘single use’ plastic bags were better.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2019/06/why-your-reusable-shopping-bag-isn-t-better-than-a-single-use-plastic-one.html

Took them a while.
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June 5, 2019 9:08am
- Inandout
  
  Sorry, Mother Cindy says NO Fletch. I laugh when I see paper bags being introduced because plastic was originally introduced to replace paper because wet and paper don’t mix well.
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:08am
  - Komata
    
    Inandout@1108
    
    And if you mention that small but important detail to the young ones behind the checkout counter, you first get a blank uncomprehending reaction, then a pitying look.
    
    They haven’t a clue.
    
    (1258)
    
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    June 5, 2019 12:59pm
lastmanstanding

If those of us on the Right were campaigning against Climate Change and scaring children witless to the point of endangering their lives by potentially taking their own life due to them feeling their was no future for them the Government and its Agencies would be taking action against us even to the point of imprisoning the most vocal on the grounds of Hate Speech.

It is ironic that the Government is throwing hundreds of millions of dollar at mental health with no explanation of what how or when they are going to cure it whilst on the other hand encouraging behaviour that will most certainly increase the incidents of mental health problems in the young.
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June 5, 2019 9:09am
- kowtow
  
  Scaring children witless is paying off.
  It would appear that many young voters in Europe’s biggest economy think that far left ecofascism is the answer , also Denmark goes to the polls today with allegedly the weather as a major concern.
  
  https://www.dw.com/en/eu-election-germanys-youth-wield-their-political-power/a-48910893
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:19am
Fletch

I’ve just been thinking… for the life of me, I can’t see why the name “Democrat” is not as reviled as “Nazi” etc. Democrats are the party who started a civil war so they could keep slavery. They are the party of the KKK, the Klanbake, George Wallace, Jim Crow, and segregation. The party who filibustered civil rights bills. The party in favour of abortion, and (in many states) infanticide.

Lincoln decided to be merciful to them after the Civil War by not disbanding the party, but maybe that was a mistake. Their handling of Trump, the Mueller report, the Kavanaugh confirmation and just about everything else they do has been disgraceful, and they just keep on getting worse.

I’d be more ashamed to vote for a Democrat than to wear a Trump hat.
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June 5, 2019 9:18am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Fletch, old history stuff. The facts are is the Repblican Party now own the Southern states due to delibrate attempt by Nixon and his party to capture them.
  
  What was called the Southern strategy,
  
  https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article63683222.html
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:28am
  - Fletch
    
    The Southern Strategy is a myth.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiprVX4os2Y
    
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    June 5, 2019 9:54am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      True. Whites in the southern states switching parties after the civil rights act was just coincidental.
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:17am
      - Fletch
        
        Oh yeh? Doubtful. And how many Dixiecrat senators “switched” parties? Answer: only two.
        
        Dixiecrats who remained Democrats after 1964:
        
        Orval Fabus
        Benjamin Travis Laney
        John Stennis
        James Eastland
        Allen Ellender
        Russell Long
        John Sparkman
        John McClellan
        Richard Russell
        Herman Talmadge
        George Wallace
        Lester Maddox
        John Rarick
        Robert Byrd
        Al Gore, Sr.
        Bull Connor
        
        Dixiecrats who became Republicans after 1964:
        Strom Thurmond
        Miles Godwin
        
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        June 5, 2019 10:39am
      - stephieboy
        
        mm, correct!,
        
        Did the Democrats and Republicans “Switch Parties”?
        
        The American political parties, now called Democrats and Republicans, switched platform planks, ideologies, and members many times in American history. These switches were typically spurred on by major legislative changes and events, such as the Civil War in the 1860’s, and Civil Rights in the 1960’s. The changes then unfolded over the course of decades to create what historians call the “Party Systems“…”
        
        http://factmyth.com/factoids/democrats-and-republicans-switched-platforms/
        
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        June 5, 2019 11:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, Fletch. Now tell me about the changed voting habits of their white constituents. Did the racist southerners continue to support those senators, or did they follow Strom Thurmond’s example and switch parties?
        
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        June 5, 2019 11:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think you have enough to be ashamed about without worrying your hypothetical vote in another country’s election.
  Who would Jesus vote for?
  
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  June 5, 2019 9:51am
  - Fletch
    
    Jesus would not vote for people who are in favour of purposely kill babies in the womb.
    
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    June 5, 2019 10:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think the correct answer is that Jesus would not vote.
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:21am
    - stephieboy
      
      Jesus would be a Roman Catholic ?
      
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      June 5, 2019 11:08am
      - cmm
        
        A Coptic or similar maybe, but not materially different for the purposes of this discussion.
        
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        June 5, 2019 3:17pm
- Tall Man
  
  Democratic Republic of Vietnam…. Not
  
  North Korea, officially the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea…. Not
  
  People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen …. Not
  
  People’s Democratic Republic of Ethiopia… Not
  
  And so on.
  
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  June 5, 2019 2:26pm
Lee C

Great way to raise revenue – drop the speed limits then…

Ker-ching!

It’s socialism, Jim,

Socialism for the Wealthy!
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June 5, 2019 9:37am
- sooty
  
  If they lower the speed limit, it would pay to drive an older car with no rego and no wof and no liecence. Get pulled up and it’s towed, go buy another one!
  
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  June 5, 2019 10:45am
- Tall Man
  
  “It’s socialism, Jim,”
  
  “But not as we know it”…..
  
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  June 5, 2019 2:29pm
Hugh Pavletich

New Zealand’s banking sector inching close to warfare | Hamish Rutherford OPINION | Stuff.co.nz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113227453/new-zealands-banking-sector-inching-close-to-warfare

OPINION: As extraordinary as it was for a top bank director to call for former prime minister Sir John Key to be removed from ANZ, it is just a symptom of how close to open warfare New Zealand’s banking sector finds itself.

On Saturday Stuff revealed that Kerry McDonald, who was chairman of BNZ for more than a decade, had written to Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr calling for a number of ANZ’s board members and top staff to be removed.

It related to an incident which saw ANZ given a severe telling off by the Reserve Bank in mid-May, but for which no one appears to have been held accountable. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
God defend the RBNZ … MacroBusiness Australia
… behind paywall …

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/06/god-defend-the-rbnz/

Via The Australian:

Forget the radioactive fallout from the Hayne royal commission — the nation’s four major banks have a bigger problem to worry about right now.

If New Zealand’s all-powerful regulator Adrian Orr has his way, the big four will be passing the hat around for the next five years to raise an extra $NZ25billion ($23.5bn) in capital. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Despite being knocked back by both major political parties during the 2017 election year, the RBNZ continues to push for the inclusion of a debt-to-income limiting tool in its macro-prudential toolkit … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/99812/despite-being-knocked-back-both-major-political-parties-during-2017-election
.
.
Central Bank of Ireland – Mortgage Measures
… with access to background research …

https://www.centralbank.ie/financial-system/financial-stability/macro-prudential-policy/mortgage-measures
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June 5, 2019 9:57am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Check out John Keys sorry history while a politician …
  
  Gone Gone Going: the demise of the NZ National Party – Performance Urban Planning
  
  http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/National%20News.html
  
  … and this was John Key back in 2007 …
  
  PM John Key on Housing Reform 2007 – YouTube
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPgoAI1cLE
  
  Did the ANZ ever condider what John Key did to the NZ National Party ?
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:57am
  - Happychappy
    
    So how is the Coalition’s promises going then Hugh have they fixed the housing crisis yet, better still have they built fourty yet.
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:24pm
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Happychappy … Major housing announcements expected from the government in the next week or two.
      
      Check out the 2019 section of http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org … specifically the Twyford speech late March to the NZ Initiative.
      
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      June 5, 2019 3:16pm
- Philview
  
  Kerry McDonald has spent the last 10 years slagging John Key off so no great surprise that he is still doing it.
  
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  June 5, 2019 4:25pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Philview … This story is way bigger than ‘can – kicker’ Key.
    
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    June 5, 2019 6:12pm
Surely Knott

I’m not an anti-1080 person. In fact I didn’t pay much attention until Council said last week they will explore dropping it in the Waitakere Ranges. But now as I begin to explore the issue I see there is significant similarities with the Climate change debate . Already we are getting people saying to the community, the science is clear, the science is settled. The anti-1080 people are painted as nutters and extremists, and the pro-1080 are the good guys. But if you go to the official pro-1080 websites on this poison they don’t even mention it’s a serious poison they emphasise words like it’s natural and safe and it is not at all balanced or informative. There’s very much a propoganda campaign to focus on a few extremists and therefore you can ignore any of the anti-1080 arguments. But actually it is a lot more nuanced than that. It is a Class 1 deadly poision with no antidote and they are exploring drop it from a plane in our biggest cities regional park which has been used for recreation by families and dogs, the ranges are populated and surrounded by homes, families and pets. It certainly does warrant discussion, both the poision and the means of dispersal. Yes there are benefits for the environment but there are also significant risks. I’ll be looking at both sides of the debate. It just annoys me that so often now that one side of any argument is demonised.
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June 5, 2019 10:21am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner would agree with you there SK. Sometimes when he goes hunting he has come across poor animals and birds that are dying from eating 1080 and it is a horrible slow death. He mercifully puts them out of their misery with his 223 rather than see them suffer.
  
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  June 5, 2019 10:52am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Yep it looks to be a hideous death and especially susceptible are dogs. And originally the aerial drops was explained that they were for vast inaccessible remote alpine areas. Now they are reviewing whether to drop it in a populated regional park surrounded by homes, that is not remote nor inaccessible. It always seemed over the top that council had put chain link fence up around the park to keep public out but I guess that is the only way they could do a drop.
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:25am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Yes, it can sometimes take all day for them to die. My partner has come across poor possums squeaking and convulsing and going into muscle spasms hours after eating it. Would be the same for a poor dog that accidently ate it as well 🙁
      
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      June 5, 2019 11:51am
      - Tall Man
        
        Come up with a better solution. I would think DoC would welcome you with open arms and please don’t suggest trapping and shooting.
        
        As an example of the amount of feral, I have shot well over 300 magpies on our property alone since November last year. Despite this, I can assure you that we still see flocks or 30 plus on a daily basis… not at my property but certainly at my neighbours.
        
        Possums are even more widespread and the stoats are a nightmare.
        
        You find a workable plan or we can stop and you watch what is left get munched to buggery.
        
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        June 5, 2019 2:42pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        My grandfather worked as a govt deer culler for a number of years and as a sideline used to target stoots and possums with Cyanide – death was instantaneous. He said there was good money to be made from the skins and i have seen photos of him with over a thousand possum pelts stretched out to dry. I dont no what the fur is worth today but maybe Jonesy could get some of the neffs off the couch to protect the billiom trees?
        
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        June 5, 2019 3:43pm
      - nasska
        
        Opossums are barely worth skinning nowadays unless you fluke a prime, cold country pelt. From what I’ve seen lately most hunters are going for the fur alone.
        
        They carry battery powered fur plucking machines & do the processing on site. For a very rough, pull a figure out of my arse guesstimate they would be making $5 from each possum killed.
        
        Still a hard way to make a dollar.
        
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        June 5, 2019 4:42pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I just finished the book “Protecting Paradise” which is all about the 1080 thing. An even-handed overview of the whole thing. Unfortunately the antis flatly refused to talk to him about any of it.
    
    There has been all sorts of work done by DOC and others to figure out how best to use the stuff. There is little or no evidence of significant bird kills. The last time there was a major anti-1080 protest at parliament the antis came up with a whole 9 birds that looked suspiciously like roadkill. Unfortunately the exception is keas because they are so damn curious and will eat anything.
    
    DOC and other agencies do a lot of ground trapping as well as 1080 drops. The preferred model seems to be a 1080 drop every few years and ground trapping in between. If there is a beech mast the rats and stoats explode way beyond the ability of trapping to keep up.
    
    There have been some impressive advances in trapping technology moving on from the traditional trap that would catch and kill one animal and then need resetting. Google “self-resetting trap” and “spitfire trap” ….
    
    1080 these days is spread in much lower concentrations than it used to be. All based on science and results. It degrades fairly quickly (in days) under most conditions. It does not accumulate in the soil or in the body. A sub-lethal dose gets broken down and excreted fairly quickly. After a drop it is a good idea to keep dogs out of the place for a couple of months because 1080 does not degrade much in a carcass. DOC routinely put up signs to this effect.
    
    The stuff is spread in low concentrations from helicopters that fly very accurate GPS-controlled paths. Yes some of it lands in small waterways at concentrations that are no threat to anything. Plus it breaks down fairly quickly.
    
    Brodifacum is an even “better” poison except that
    it does persist in tissue and the soil …. tends to be used in one-offs like de-ratting Enderby Island. Cyanide is horribly toxic long-lived stuff.
    
    etc etc etc
    
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    June 5, 2019 4:29pm
    - nasska
      
      …..”Cyanide is horribly toxic long-lived stuff”…..
      
      Inclined to disagree. The paste deteriorates & detoxifies in humid or wet conditions. As a general rule if you can recognise the bait as such then it should be avoided. Responsible trappers will rub out or bury baits on their last round of a line.
      
      And cyanide does not contaminate water.
      
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      June 5, 2019 5:53pm
- Tall Man
  
  “The anti-1080 people are painted as nutters and extremists”….
  
  And they are 😉
  
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  June 5, 2019 2:31pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Right Tall Man. Silly me. Originally recommended by the manufacturer as only for bait stations, we justified using it via helicopters for remote inaccessible places, and it’s now ok for our urban regional parks surrounded by homes so where next. I’m going on holiday in a week. And I have a three rail fence. Can I put a sign on my gate and chuck some of this natural safe 1080 pellets around my property, it would be a damn sight quicker than this whole bait station thing I’ve been mucking around with. It wouldn’t be by an aerial bucket so I could even guarantee It wouldn’t get chucked on the neighbours or in a stream which is more than council can guarantee. And presumably it would be dissolved by the time I got back. What about in Westmere and Ponsonby.
    The cities are where the rats are coming from. Let’s close of the urban parks and do them next. Guaranteed to dissolve what could go wrong.
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:00pm
DigNap15

Hey Genter
Give us a breakdown of the cause of road fatalities
Speed
Asians
Drunk driving
Weather
Faulty Vehicle
Overloaded
Maori
Crossing centre line
Drugged drivers
Boy Racers
Police pursuits
Unliscned drivers
Banned drivers
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June 5, 2019 10:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  You mentioned Asians and Maori, but somehow forgot people from Africa, South and Central America, and Pacific islanders.
  
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  June 5, 2019 10:47am
- stephieboy
  
  DigNap15, why exclude Whites from your list!
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:11am
Maggie Pie

Ever since i was little the two things ive always loved is dogs and magic. When things get quiet at work i often play this ‘card trick’ and it works every time.
You can play it at home if you want…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6wC8CrXkAAs0kd?format=jpg&name=large
7 2
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June 5, 2019 10:26am
- Fletch
  
  WTF??!!
  lol
  
  4 1
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  June 5, 2019 10:42am
- Swifty
  
  What canine sorcery is this?
  
  Edit – ah, got it now.
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:21am
- Jules99
  
  LOL. Maybe it should be an entry test for parliament.
  
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  June 5, 2019 12:11pm
Yvette

Road speeds
With the introduction in the last few days of a television “road safety” campaign suggesting many drivers always choose to travel at 10 – 15km over the limit, in a manner of “my rules not theirs”, is this campaign based on sound research that really has evidence of this driver behaviour being a major problem, or is the whole campaign to smear anyone who would think of travelling over the limit, including new reduced limits?

And if there is a real problem out there of a stereotyped stale white male whose attitude is “no one will fucking tell me how to drive my car”, won’t Julie Anne need a less ambiguous ad than one with driverless cars, when drivers are being labeled the problem?
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June 5, 2019 10:34am
- srylands
  
  I am so pleased I do not watch New Zealand TV. 🙂
  
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  June 5, 2019 1:22pm
Yvette

Kōhanga reo staff in Wellington were brought to tears today as Māori Ministers announced a $32 million boost to help lift their wages, and allow voluntary workers to be paid.

Claims regarding the actual amount spent annually by Government – current Coalition and National before it – to maintain and promote the Maori language vary from $200 million to $600 million, covering everything from Maori television to the measure mentioned above.

Surely it would be worth establishing how much taxpayer funds are already spent on Maori language measures which obviously are not working, and eliminating some of those, before throwing yet more taxpayer money at the problem?

How much is spent on te reo Maori each year and on what already?
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June 5, 2019 10:42am
- Ross12
  
  Yvette
  The research would have to go back a long way. Funding has been going on since the 1970’s at least.
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:36am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    No need to go back. I merely want to know the total budgeted to be spent on the Maori language, and exclusively Maori outfits, for the year ended 30th June 2020.
    It might be argued that with my professional training that I know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I know the value that I put on the Maori language. Now I want to know the cost.
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:16pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Supporting te reo Māori and communities: $208mil (operating) $2mil (capital)
      
      Minister for Māori Development Nanaia Mahuta says the Crown is committed to ensuring that basic te reo is spoken by a million people in Aotearoa by 2040.
      
      Budget 2019 Initiatives include resurrecting Te Kotahitanga, supporting the Māori Housing Network and revitalising marae as centres of community and te reo.
      
      Almost $9.8mil over four years will fund Te Taura Whiri and support an increase in certification for te reo teachers.
      
      Another $4mil will be used to sponsor events that contribute to promoting the status and use of te reo Māori. Te Puni Kōkiri will administer this fund.
      
      $6mil will be invested in the Kāhui investment model run by Te Mātāwai. This investment will be used to support the Maihi Māori programme in the wider Māori community and also for policy and advice for Te Taura Whiri.
      
      The money will be earmarked for eight iwi and Māori language clusters across the country.
      
      Budget 2019 also provides $14mil of additional support for Te Mangai Paho to produce Māori programming and content.
      https://teaomaori.news/well-meaning-budget-2019-offers-almost-half-billion-maori
      
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      June 5, 2019 9:05pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/113242862/teen-who-planned-attack-in-christchurch-admits-absconding

“The youth was arrested almost two years ago after a violent incident in Christchurch. He has been monitored by Judge O’Driscoll since February 2018 when he admitted planning to carry out the attack on a group of people in public, after converting to Islam and being radicalised online.”

“He originally planned to ram a car into a group of people and then stab them until police killed him. He wrote a goodbye letter to his mother and then carried out a violent attack in 2017, making threats and causing damage. He later told a psychologist that he “decided not to hurt anybody because he did not have the means to kill enough people”.

“I am prepared to give you another chance. I have given you many chances. Some might say I have given you too many,” the judge said.

A membership to Waitikiri Golf Course this time perhaps Judge O’Driscoll?
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June 5, 2019 10:44am
Jack5

The young Muslim who planned a massacre of Christchurch citizens by car and knife has been released on bail after the fourth breach of his supervision order.

This is the person who received golf lessons while under supervision.

This case – in the first link below – seems to contrast with the case in the second link, where a 16-year-old Christchurch boy was held in custody for two months on charges (which he denies) of distributing video of the mosque massacres. He has finally been released on bail to live with his family.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12237454

AND:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/113133222/youth-on-christchurch-terror-attack-video-sharing-charge-gets-bail
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June 5, 2019 10:49am
- stephieboy
  
  Jack5 , hope there for Brenton Tarrant?
  
  https://images.app.goo.gl/Vu7zLtLd6Hj4HqjW6
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Goodness stephieboy,
    I’ve just looked at that image you’ve posted and I see that the killer Brenton Tarrant stands for:
    A New society based on:
    Environmentalism
    Worker’s Rights
    Anti-Imperialism
    Addiction-free Communities
    Ethnic Autonomy
    Law & Order
    Protection of Heritage & Culture,
    and
    Responsible Markets.
    
    Gosh, who knew that the far-right were so woke?
    
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    June 5, 2019 11:45am
    - stephieboy
      
      And he felt like Anders Brevik massacring Muslims to prove it?
      
      Anders Brevik similarly massacring Left wing young Labour supporters?
      
      I think you are over looking these salient facts I trust it is not one of your chronic blindspots
      
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      June 5, 2019 1:43pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You are the expert on the alt-right, stephieboy.
        
        You’re the one always telling us about the alt-right who comment on KB.
        
        I have no idea what violent people felt/believe… not my scene.
        
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        June 5, 2019 1:53pm
  - Alien
    
    What an idiotic comment, grow up
    
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    June 5, 2019 12:26pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  Did Judge O’Driscoll ever have the BBQ with the IS wannabe offender over xmas?
  
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  June 5, 2019 11:23am
- Yvette
  
  The youth who planned a massacre of Christchurch citizens by car and knife –
  The teenager has been regularly seeing a judge for judicial monitoring sessions and this year has already admitted three breaches of the intensive supervision order … [which he was sentenced to at Christchurch District Court last February]
  
  So this was the fourth breach of his intensive supervision order in less than five months and the reason for the latest lapse – He walked to a city Burger King, which reminded him of when his mother used to take him there when he was feeling low – still sounds reasonably unstable, his having been of attention since 2017.
  
  Today, Judge O’Driscoll granted him bail back to his supervised accommodation but warned him he was running out of chances.
  “I’m prepared to give you another chance. I have given you many chances and some would say I have given you too many.”
  
  If this man resorts to some dire action, what responsibility will the judge take?
  Any chance?
  
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  June 5, 2019 12:31pm
  - Komata
    
    Yvette@1231
    
    Re: ‘If this man resorts to some dire action, what responsibility will the judge take’?
    
    Absolutely none, his reasoning / excuse being that he made his decision based on information presented to him.
    
    It’s a cop-out as we know, but the ‘good’ judge will never take responsibility for HIS actions and the results that they may have.
    
    It don’t work that way…
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:12pm
  - Alien
    
    Article
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/113242862/teen-who-planned-attack-in-christchurch-admits-absconding
    
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    June 5, 2019 1:48pm
    - Alien
      
      Whoops should say, article is different than your post. In the article it says he was going to Burger King to get money out to get a taxi to visit his mum
      
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      June 5, 2019 3:19pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113232523/spark-admits-bug-has-resulted-in-some-sports-fans-being-charged-multiple-times-to-watch-rwc

Spark software, courtesy of the same people who wrote the Treasury software !
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June 5, 2019 11:39am
Jack5

Adrian Orr, governor of the Reserve Bank, pushes the limits when he questions whether Australian banks should be able to make their directors also directors of their fully owned NZ subsidiaries.

He was talking about John Key and ANZ’s New Zealand subsidiary, responding to an Auckland Kiwsavings manager, Sam Stubbs, of the Simplicity scheme.

Stubbs asked whether Key, and BNZ chairman Doug McKay, had conflicted loyalties because of their dual trans-Tasman directorships. (Key is on the boards of the ANZ bank and its NZ subsidiary).

A fully owned subsidiary represents its owner. That’s it.

The reporter, Rob Stock, says the ANZ has been “humiliated” in being stripped of its right to self-monitor its capital buffers. The strong description, “humiliated,” seems to me aonther indication the Reserve Bank is waging some sort of PR, or political, campaign against the Aussie banks.

Stock writes that the move by the Reserve Bank on May 17 left ANZ as the only big bank (that is, the three big Australian banks in NZ) not “trusted” by the Reserve Bank after it found “a persistent failure in its controls and attestation process” since 2014.

A day or two earlier, another Staff reporter suggested Key should be “locked up” over the issue.

Wouldn’t want to be the Stuff advertising sales staff who call on the bankers, especially the ANZ.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113222943/reserve-bank-governor-adrian-orr-questions-sir-john-keys-anz-directorship
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June 5, 2019 11:49am
- secondcumming
  
  There’s no doubt the *ANZ* saw JK’s wide network as being very valuable to the bank and made him its *figurehead* here.
  
  He will need to be briefed by experts and be able to exercise all his gravitas if he’s to succeed in his mission to turn around *Adrian Orr’s* determination to bring ANZ to heel.
  
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  June 5, 2019 1:03pm
  - Jack5
    
    Adrian Orr to bring the ANZ Bank “to heel”?
    
    Our country, New Zealand, is a tiddler in the international financial world, and central banks everywhere are going to have their roles challenged as deflation becomes the problem, rather than inflation, whose containment has been their biggest role.
    
    The ANZ is no small institution on the Australasian scale. Its gross assets are near a trillion New Zealand dollars.
    
    As for John Key being valuable as a “figurehead”: John Key made a fortune in the banking and broader financial world. His knowledge and experience are invaluable to any bank board of directors. He is on the risk committee of the board of the Australia and New Zealand Banking Group. He wasn’t appointed to that because of his “wide network”.
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:36pm
    - secondcumming
      
      The *central issue* is the arrogant attitude of the ANZ to this country’s financial regulations.
      
      Ive seen JK described as a very successful *FX trader*, having outstanding presentation skills combined with the right amount of amount of larrikinism, which has enabled him to attract a following from a diverse group of people. There’s no doubt that as a cheerleader he is able to access doors and draw media favor, which makes him a nice fit for the ANZ.
      
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      June 5, 2019 4:38pm
      - Jack5
        
        “Presentation skills” and “larrikinism” aren’t the skills that make you a top exchange trader. A very cool head, and a capacity for risk linked to high intelligence do contribute, though.
        
        Key’s record includes: six years as Merrill Lynch’s head of global foreign exchange and three years on the foreign exchange committee of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. (New York’s is one of 12 Federal Reserve Banks that make up the Federal Reserve System.)
        
        Compare that with Jacinderella’s PR/Communications bachelor’s degree from Waikato followed by Labour research jobs in NZ and the UK and the International Union of Socialist Youth.
        
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        June 5, 2019 5:22pm
sooty

Is Steve Tew retiring before the Crusaders turns to custard or is he the scrapegoat?
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June 5, 2019 1:20pm
- Poppa
  
  If that changes there will be one hell of a backlash. I believe Mr Robertson & Ms Ardern have their fingerprints all over it, not that they will ever admit to it
  
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  June 5, 2019 1:35pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    If what changes Poppa ?
    
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    June 5, 2019 4:20pm
- barnacle bill
  
  I am sure that your view will be news to the Crusaders and Steve Tew, sooty
  
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  June 5, 2019 4:23pm
coge

Here’s a chance for climate change skeptics to have a say to Stuff, https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdUUDh8HWR2UTyb00ZJr4Lqe4s0sAxGtfvl_jXjr0ewQuh_mQ/formResponse
10 1
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June 5, 2019 1:45pm
- mandk
  
  The survey will be as biased as the science.
  
  You can submit more than one response.
  
  12 0
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  June 5, 2019 2:11pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep..
    and the lazy buggers at Stuff want folks to practically write the articles for them.
    
    Basically, they are admitting they know nothing about climate science and just want ideas on how to “influence” people.
    
    12 2
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    June 5, 2019 3:30pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      That’s the last time I will ever visit that site. However, I feel we need to do more than just avoid the site. We need to target their advertisers. A newsite that has predetermined an acceptable viewpoint on a contentious scientific debate does not deserve to remain as a going concern. And the people who fund such an abomination need to be targeted as well. I want to be informed by science and good scientific enquiry and the scientific method, not by some jacked up smart arse with an agenda.
      
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      June 5, 2019 6:31pm
    - coge
      
      It’s like green eggs and ham. “Do you want them here, or over there?”
      
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      June 5, 2019 10:04pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  They won’t like my responses…..
  
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  June 5, 2019 3:18pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  and Fuck you stuff…. for having your head up your arse.
  
  (Note: Stuff follows the scientific consensus that climate change is real and caused by human activity. We don’t give oxygen to climate science denialism.)
  
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  June 5, 2019 3:19pm
Happychappy

Why would NZ Cricket not be concerned that the NZ Racing Industry and sports funding from betting, could hurt
funding for sporting code’s, even if Grant Robertson promises the reforms to the Racing Sector and Sports funding organizations including NZ Rugby and NZ Cricket losing out.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12237478
Racing Minister Winston Peters is defending the truncated process for Public consultation, despite criticism from Transparency International NZ that the five day period for Public Submissions is to short.
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June 5, 2019 2:42pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  The news article mentions “point of consumption tax”. If a New Zealander bets on the Black Caps against Bangladesh is the point of consumption tax payable to the English cricket authorities, where the match is being played, or to the New Zealand cricket authorities?
  If it is payable to the New Zealand cricket authorities, what about a New Zealander betting on Sri Lanka; does the point of consumption tax go to Columbo?
  So many questions; so few answers.
  
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  June 5, 2019 3:26pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think NZ sporting codes get a return from the TAB in return for consent to the TAB allowing bets on that code either domestically or internationally.
    I’m not sure why gamblers’ money should go back to the racing or sporting industries specifically. The people playing pokies or lotto don’t see the profits recycled in way that benefits their recreational preferences.
    
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    June 5, 2019 4:17pm
rangitoto

Global warming strikes Queensland.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/06/queensland-s-sunshine-state-residents-wake-up-to-rare-snowfall.html
10 2
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June 5, 2019 3:03pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Al Gore is probably visiting
  
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  June 5, 2019 3:27pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Indeed he is..
    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/06/queensland-govt-pays-320k-to-al-gore-to-train-people-in-climate-witchcraft-and-gets-snow-too/#more-64467
    
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    June 5, 2019 3:34pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Lol
      #GoreEffect
      
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      June 5, 2019 4:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Rare snowfall….
  
  seems folks in Queensland are rather forgetful…
  http://www.weatherarmidale.com/qldsnowtable.htm
  
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  June 5, 2019 3:39pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder if this will have any bearing on NZ’s investigation into the NZDF and Afghanistan.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/federal-police-raid-abc-offices-in-sydney-over-a-2017-story-about-afghanistan/news-story/3bb1fbe51571d757ca05bb8da0b763d1
7 0
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June 5, 2019 4:07pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Not a good sign for democracy when the police are ransacking journalists’ homes and offices.
  
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  June 5, 2019 4:13pm
Jack5

An excellent analysis of the Budget release bungle has been posted by Michael Reddell at his Croaking Cassandra blog.

Reddell widens the criticism to the State Services Commissioner.

A taste of the Reddell article:

If it is serious enough to have a serious inquiry, it is serious enough for Makhlouf to be stood aside until the report comes in. If it is a serious inquiry that is.

https://croakingcassandra.com/
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June 5, 2019 5:43pm
Hugh Pavletich

Air Cargo Demand Continues To Plunge As World Trade Sinks | Zero Hedge

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-03/air-cargo-demand-continues-plunge-world-trade-sinks
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June 5, 2019 9:51pm
Hugh Pavletich

Australia’s house price downturn is now the largest on record … Business Insider

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/australia-house-price-falls-record-downturn-2019-6

• Australia’s house price downturn is now officially the largest on record.
• Median home prices have now fallen 8.2% in nominal terms, surpassing the previous record decline seen in the early 1980s.
• At 20 months, the current downturn is also one of the longest on record.
• UBS expects prices will eventually decline by 10% before stabilising, most likely later this year.
.
.
Australia’s Economy Expands at Slowest Pace in Decade on Housing – Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-05/australia-s-economy-expands-slower-than-forecast-on-housing-woes
.
.
… Housing multiple stretch is grossly excessive …

2019 15th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
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June 6, 2019 2:25am

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