General Debate 28 June 2019

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mikenmildagain

Big day today. We’re commemorating the 100th anniversary of the Treaty of Versailles, ending ‘the war to end all wars’.
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June 28, 2019 8:02am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes MMA, and gave pay back for France (after it was humiliated in 1870) and it lit a fire that would lead to WWII. An appalling piece of diplomacy that led to the world being engulfed in war.
  
  Do you think that humankind will ever learn from the mistakes of the past?
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:15am
  - stephieboy
    
    hullkiwi, “..,and it lit a fire that would lead to WWII. ”
    
    ???
    
    Where did you get that piece of nonsense from?
    
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    June 28, 2019 10:09am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Stephie, clearly you never read history during any level of your education.
      
      You have a reputation for using and regurgitating Google searches. I suggest you go and do it and read up about the consequences of the Traty of Versailles. Start with the points MMA has made below.
      
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      June 28, 2019 4:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Britain wanted pay back after all its suffering, too. Lloyd George had promised to “squeeze Germany till the pips squeak”. Italy, Japan, the US and the other allies (including NZ) all wanted their pay-offs, too, while the innumerable conflicting interests of states, nationalities and organisations could never be reconciled.
    The star at Versailles was Woodrow Wilson, who had cherished dreams of a just peace, that could not be delivered, least of all by himself and his approach to the negotiations and to his own domestic politics.
    The League of Nations, at least, was established in a further development of international mechanisms to reduce conflict and improve cooperation, but was crippled at the outset by the US withdrawl into isolationism. The failure of the League at least provided some learnings for the more successful United Nations, but of course no human institutions can ever be anything but flawed.
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:18am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  More like the Armistice ended the fighting; the Treaty of Versailles primed Germany for the next global conflict.
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:19am
- Stephen James
  
  It took a while after the end of fighting. I didn’t know that. Thanks
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:20am
  - cmm
    
    Remember this was before the age of jet aircraft.
    
    People traveled from all over the world to go to Versailles. My grandfather traveled from South Africa. People went from Australia and NZ.
    
    You don’t do that overnight.
    
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    June 28, 2019 8:30am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Seven months after the Armistice was signed in November 1918, nine German sailors lost their lives on June 21, 1919, trying to defend the pride of the last vestige of the German Empire: the High Seas Fleet.’
    
    https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-navy-marks-100-years-since-scuttling-at-scapa-flow/a-49281737
    
    Germany today is a funny beast. Why commemorate these and not others?
    
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    June 28, 2019 8:49am
- mark15
  
  The world was a very different place then.
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:24am
  - Simon
    
    The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was much harsher.
    
    The Germans wanted round two regardless but only in the East.
    
    In the East only. So much for the Treaty of Versailles imposed by France & UK.
    
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    June 28, 2019 8:38am
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      The treaty of Brest-Litovsk was much harsher.
      
      Yes, and it contributed to Germany’s defeat. Eastern Europe was too devastated by war to immediately deliver much benefit to Germany; troops which could have been used on the Western Front were needed to enforce Brest-Litovsk’s punitive terms; B-L made clear to the Allies the consequences of defeat; and it undermined years of successful propaganda within Germany that it was fighting a purely defensive war against Allied aggression.
      
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      June 28, 2019 10:10am
      - Ed Snack
        
        There’s a school of thought that Germany actually missed a major opportunity at this point. If they had offered the rest of the allies a peace deal that saw them evacuate Belgium (to satisfy the British, and Belgiums of course), returned to the existing pre-WW1 boundaries with France and also the existing boundaries between Austria Hungary and Italy, it seems quite likely that it would have been accepted as a way to end the war that could be spun as a victory. Germany would not have gained anything in the West but gained enormously in the East and would (assuming they could assimilate the territory) be considerably stronger.
        
        France might have needed mollification for not regaining Alsace & Lorraine (Maybe offer Lorraine back ?) but Britain I would think would be very keen to stop at that point. Also the overseas colonies might be tricky, there was still fighting in East Africa (in fact the last fighting took place there and the British never completely defeated the Germans there). But Samoa & Namibia had been taken, and colonies was one of the reasons Germany went to war in the first place.
        
        Big loser was of course Russia and places like Poland. The Soviets almost certainly would not have been able to recover the territories lost under B-L if Germany was at peace in the West. However that means probably no independent Poland. France also gains nothing for its losses unless they get Lorraine. Italy too suffered major manpower losses.
        
        Bit hard to know what the implications would be of such a deal. It saves a lot of lives, millions in fact, but would Germany have been satisfied with that. The Kaiser survives as does the German Empire, and they become potentially a lot stronger but still locked in to Europe. It could have burst out again in a similar way to WW2 but with a much stronger Germany and a weaker Soviet Union, but no Hitler.
        
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        June 28, 2019 12:02pm
- BrownSnake
  
  De population exercise and total waste of time like Number 2
  
  Next
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:36am
Happychappy

Just a thought about Hugh Pavlovich do you think we should send him a sympathy card for the loss of his prodigy as he is probably upset at not having the outcome he wanted. It was noticable yesterday as not one post to even give his view on Twyfords demise.
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June 28, 2019 8:09am
- sooty
  
  Yes every single post from hughie was all true!
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:27am
Ford Prefect

Congratulations to the amateur mens netball team, who comfortably beat the highly paid, professional Silver Ferns, possibly the second best womens netball team in the world.

Can these mens netballers start getting some support from Netball NZ.

Add the result to the Dallas under-15 boys academy team who beat the world champion USA womens football team 5-2, and the Newcastle under 16 boys team that beat the Australian womens football team 7-0.
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June 28, 2019 8:13am
- burt
  
  These results show how unfair it is to let trans people compete in their self identified gender.
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:43am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  If female tennis players are entitled to pay parity with male players, surely female netballers should get the same.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:08am
  - cmm
    
    Female tennis players do not get pay parity – they get a huge boost.
    
    Pay parity would mean equal pay for equal output, yet top female players like Williams would be hard pressed to make it into the top 200 tennis players in the world.
    
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    June 28, 2019 9:56am
  - Ford Prefect
    
    Equal pay for equal work is fine.
    
    Female tennis players only play best of 3 sets in the majors while the men play best of 5. Yet they get the same prize money.
    
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    June 28, 2019 10:23am
  - Scott
    
    I’m not a big fan of this enforced pay parity. What a tennis player gets paid is a function of the market, public interest, audiences, sponsorship interest etc. Now if Serena Williams and Maria Sharapova and other female tennis players get the same interest as the male players and the same sponsorship well then fine. But it shouldn’t be enforced by a law?
    
    Similarly male netball is a very small sport indeed. If they have the interest and sponsorship well then fine. But considering female netball is a much bigger sport then the pay for the women will be much greater.
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:28am
- BassilFawlty
  
  Perhaps this boys could play in the women’s league, I can’t see any problems there.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:25am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Perhaps the men should “identify” as female for a few weeks and head off to the world cup in place of the women.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:55am
Tarquin North

The cartoon in today’s Horrid shows just how far out of touch the media really are in this country.
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June 28, 2019 8:17am
MCos

Israel Falou told Allan Jones that Rugby Australia offered him money to take down his controversial Instragram post.
Rugby Australia denies this happened.
Someone’s going to have to do some repenting to save their arse from the fires of hell.
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June 28, 2019 8:19am
- hullkiwi
  
  MCos is it any wonder people are trying to stop Folau. The longer this stuff keeps going on, the more it looks like Rugby Australia created an unsolvable problem for themselves with Folau, and they want to do the same to his wife.
  
  Wow, so much for freedom of speech and faith….
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:57am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  If he can’t get his job back, he should make sure the financial cost to them is high enough that future conservative Christians will be allowed to talk about their religious views and also play rugby. Since the lawsuit is funded with other people’s money he has no reason to settle.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:11am
- Scott
  
  Massive penalty try by the Australian rugby union who were pressured by their major sponsor Qantas and its homosexual CEO to get rid of Folau.
  
  I have contributed to his legal costs and I encourage others to do the same.
  https://www.acl.org.au/pledge_izzy
  
  Actually I see that $2 million has been raised and so they are hitting the pause button. A good move while they assess what the actual legal costs will be.
  
  But this issue is about religious freedom that affects everyone. It is also about freedom of speech which also affects everyone.
  
  We can’t have a society where you can be fired from your job for having an opinion that certain powerful people don’t like. One of the bedrock foundations of our Western democracy is freedom of speech. We know that freedom of speech is under attack given the examples of Don brash and Massey University and Lauren Southern and others who have been banned for non-politically correct speech.
  
  This is an important case that affects everyone no matter their religious affiliation.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:32am
  - tf78
    
    God bless Israel and I thank him for his strength of character to enable this wake up call for the ‘woke’.
    
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    June 28, 2019 10:40am
  - vincent van gogh
    
    What a load of tripe. This was never an issue about religious freedom and/or free speech. It’s only evolved into that mess by Folau himself and the various outraged.
    The primary issue is an employment dispute where one party was deemed to have breeched the agreed Code if Conduct.
    Most civilised societies have rules and laws, without which there would be anarchy. Those laws include the freedom of association, language, religion and sexual orientation as examples. Folau has never been restricted from his Christian beliefs and practises, just as what most people do in their own homes or in their private life is up to them. But there is a reason most responsible people are careful what they post on social media.. as in the separation of state and church, so we prefer to separate our professional and private lives. Employees don’t want to have the credibility of their staff undermined by them posting drunken or worse pics from the previous Saturday night.
    Same with extreme personal views whether it’s politics, religion, race or whatever.. extreme views generally will offend someone. This is why we have codes of conduct. If you can’t stick with the collective code that your team members also signed up to, then you are free to seek a release from your contract to follow your own code.
    We have religious freedom and free speech.. that’s the whole point of codes of conduct for any business and sports body. Establishing the rules around acceptable behaviour, that’s consistent with the organisations ethos, in a very free society. If you don’t agree with those rules, go and play for someone else… you are FREE to do so!
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:22am
- Fletch
  
  The media and liberals are drawing this out, trying to set an example with Folau, because he made the cardinal sin of criticizing a group in his list that isn’t allowed to be criticized….
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:43am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    He didn’t criticize them. He did something far worse. He hurt their feelings.
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:51am
    - sooty
      
      The LBGT people cried oh poor me!
      
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      June 28, 2019 12:31pm
adaman

Mens netballers beat the Silver Ferns last night. Wonder if all the equal pay folks are gonna stand up and demand that the mens team get paid the same and get the same opportunities as they as just as capable (well in this case better) than their female counterparts.

Doubt it….
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June 28, 2019 8:25am
- srylands
  
  Yes it says a lot. I assume the men are all amatuers.
  
  I read a couple of weeks back that most female world athletics records could be bettered by good male athletes at the club level. That suggests that these female records could be bettered by hundreds or thousands of men. I haven’t got the time to verify this so it might be rubbish. But if true it shows the absurdity of allowing trans women to compete with biological women in sport. It is totally unfair.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:40am
  - sooty
    
    Just you weight untill every female team is made up of all cock in a frock!
    
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    June 28, 2019 12:33pm
- srylands
  
  OK I looked it up. There is an interesting table here that shows how many boys under 18 would break female world records. So based on international athletics federation data, 124 boys would break the female world record in the 100 metres sprint. So that suggests that thousands of male adult athletes would beat the woman’s world record.
  https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:54am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Also the 1500 metres, Male Record is 3:26 and female is 3:50. Back in 1936 Jack Lovelock ran 3:48.
    
    There’s a huge difference between 3:26 and 3:50. I saw a 17 year old Jakob Ingebrigtsen run 3:31. I don’t think the very fastest women would even qualify for the heats.
    
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    June 28, 2019 12:30pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Or, as Nigel K. points out at 9.08, they could be paid the same as the amateur men who defeated them.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:21am
Nukuleka

Seems that all is not well within the Christchurch Muslim community when it comes to the distribution of various compensation moneys collected and allocated for surviving victims. Funny how the meme ‘We are one. They are us’ is so readily shattered once the issue of filthy lucre is involved. I am sure, however, it will all be resolved in accordance with the tenets of the religion of peace.
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June 28, 2019 8:26am
- Rich Prick
  
  I heard some being interviewed yesterday, quite a few are not happy. I feel quite uneasy about introducing money into these situations. I wonder how other victims/witnesses of other crimes feel about being left uncompensated?
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:06am
Tony Stuart

As a counter to Audrey Young’s Kool-Aid-inspired “Jacinda is ruthless” column, Barry Soper comes up with the best line of the day:

So a relaxed, smiling Jacinda Ardern, and she had good reason to be relaxed given she’s kept everyone on board, issued a press statement headed, Refreshed Cabinet line-up confirmed.

Yeah well, it’s about as refreshing as fly spray.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12244627
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June 28, 2019 8:30am
- MrTips
  
  Indeed. What the hell is Audrey smoking? Getting a bit sick of this “girl-power at all costs’ journalism. And its highly hypocritical.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:19am
  - sooty
    
    Time for the herald to have a reshuffle too!
    
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    June 28, 2019 12:34pm
hullkiwi

On Tuesday, watching mindless TV on TV2 was a show Booze Patrol. A fly on the wall programme following the NSW road police. And what did we learn from this programme, well in NSW when you are pulled over by the police, you don’t do just a mandatory breath test, but you have to do a mandatory saliva test for drugs. Yes, the driver is inconvenienced, but they get the drugged drivers, even if it is only pot.

Reflecting on NZ, the highest cause of fatalities on NZ roads is drug/alcohol driving (and it is anticipated that drugs will soon be the single biggest cause). Adding, fuel at the misdirection of the Assoc. Minister yesterday Simon Wilson doing his bit of AT PR and using NZTA stats confirmed this. Then this morning on Red Radio, we get news that resulting from a Coronial Inquest, there is a call for road side drug testing to cut drug driving.

Now, what are Genter’s objections to mandatory roadside drug testing again?

Or put it another way, when is she going to do her job based on providing Kiwis with Transport Policies appropriate to NZ and not based on her personal dogma?
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June 28, 2019 8:30am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It was one year yesterday since the horrific crash just north of Waverley where a driver stoned out of his brain took out six innocent people including his own children. It’s time we took drugged driving seriously.
  
  So what do Julie Anne, Chloe and their Green mates want to do? Why, they want to legalise recreational drug use, AND set a goal of zero road deaths. Go figure…
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:36am
  - Im Right
    
    Adverts for speed and drink driving show the death factor and maiming…drug driving advert if you crash you will spill your milk shake!
    Hard for a green minister to approve a hard hitting drug driving campaign when the same party are campaigning for legalising cannabis ?
    (Current, only drug driving advert, is for cannabis use)
    
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    June 28, 2019 8:45am
  - kevn
    
    @Tony…Add to that, they desire a smokefree NZ by whatever date.
    A clown circus,
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:15am
- MCos
  
  Interesting you should mention that.
  There is a similar show in America called Cops. I heard a discussion on the wireless recently about a common process seen on that show whereby suspected drugs found in cars are roadside tested. If there is a positive result the suspect is handcuffed and taken downtown.
  Problem is & what they don’t tell you on the show, the tests have a 50% inaccuracy rate and are thrown out in court.
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:50am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Maybe Genter is a pothead and doesnt want other potheads caught driving.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:34am
- 103PapPap
  
  Is it a good question to ask how these unemployed people can afford to buy drugs?
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:33am
- Ed Snack
  
  Query, does the test in any way measure the degree of incapacity due to drugs ? The alcohol test works because alcohol is fairly rapidly eliminated from the body so the test shows the current level which correlates well with the reduced capacity to drive appropriately.
  
  I understand, though possibly incorrectly, that the drugs test can show the presence of drugs even if the driver is effectively not compromised in driving performance. That is because the tested substance is actually retained in body fat for a significant time unlike alcohol that is metabolized and eliminated rapidly.
  
  So is the test “fair” in that way, does it actually measure something that does correlate with safety ? Serious question as I am interested to find out.
  
  Second query, are synthetic canniboid substances also detected, is meth ?
  
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  June 28, 2019 12:47pm
Maggie Pie

I haven’t worn make-up all week. I don’t even know who i am any more.
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June 28, 2019 8:31am
- Tarquin North
  
  On the subject of make up, I had the misfortune of seeing a picture of Megan Woods on stuffed this morning. I’m absolutely convinced she is the woman from the movie Total Recall who flew to pieces at the checkpoint on mars. She should have stuck to acting.
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:40am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I just hope nobody offers her an after dinner mint.
    
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    June 28, 2019 9:15am
    - skyblue
      
      Hide the goldfish.
      
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      June 28, 2019 10:07am
    - MrLovebucket
      
      A wafer thin one?
      
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      June 28, 2019 10:51am
    - Bell-47
      
      Just one little waffer…
      
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      June 28, 2019 11:51am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Maybe we could put her on a shuttle and send her back there
    
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    June 28, 2019 9:18am
  - Fletch
    
    We had a lady come in to work the other day who I swore looked like the same lady from Total Recall – the one where the head comes off and it’s Arnie, right?
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uYB2y3zP-s
    
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    June 28, 2019 10:06am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    She obviously has poor self discipline and control. Pretty terrible attributes for a Minister (Brownlee not good either)
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:27am
- calendar girl
  
  ,,,,, and we can’t recognise you, Maggie P.
  
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  June 28, 2019 9:10am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner may recognize you though, CG 🙂
    
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    June 28, 2019 9:50am
Scott

Robert Mueller has been subpoenaed to testify before Congress in two weeks time. The Democrats by issuing the subpoena are hoping that they will have a spectacle that will gain ratings and generate controversy so that they can achieve their ultimate goal of removing Donald Trump from office through impeachment.

Two points on this – it appears that the Democrats are now in a situation where they will not accept the opposition party winning the White House? Instead they have engaged in endless investigations because they clearly have not accepted the result of the 2016 presidential election. How will democracies survive if left-wing parties will not accept the will of the people?

Secondly this is a very risky move because Republicans are poised to ask Robert Mueller the following questions –
– when did you know that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia?
– Why did you then continue the investigation for many months causing great trouble to the American people and persecuting American citizens such as Paul Manafort?
– Why did you pay no attention to the genesis of this case? The collusion between the Hillary campaign and Russia to fund the Steele dossier?
– Did you ever investigate that this whole question of collusion was a hoax bought and paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC?
– Why did you never investigate the role of the Obama presidency in this whole sordid mess?
– And why did you never make a determination about obstruction of justice when your job was to determine whether criminal charges should be laid?
– And finally when did the standard become Donald Trump is guilty until exonerated by us? Isn’t the legal standard innocent until proven guilty? Why did you feel that it was important to lay aside centuries of jurisprudence to come to a conclusion that we could not exonerate Donald Trump?

The hearings are going to be very interesting! Pass the popcorn! 🙂
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June 28, 2019 8:35am
- stephieboy
  
  Did you ever investigate that this whole question of collusion was a hoax bought and paid for by Hillary Clinton and the DNC?
  
  – Why did you never investigate the role of the Obama presidency in this whole sordid mess? etc, etc
  
  Why not include Seth Rich and Clinton body count, Comet Ping Pong etc in the proposedRepugnantican investigation?
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:14am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, it would be interesting to ask Mueller how he came to his conclusion that “the Russians” hacked the DNC servers – did he rely entirely upon a draft and heavily redacted Crowdstrike report for that as reported ? If so, on what grounds does he justify his firm attribution without any direct evidence ?
    
    And if that is correct (as it is reported quite widely) then why did he not actually investigate how did the DNC emails get into the wild – did he follow up for instance offers to testify regarding the source fro Julian Assange and (dare I say it) KDC ? Now KDC is a blowhard, but a recent FOI request to the NSA revealed that the NSA held a number of responsive records (16 I believe) that related to recorded messages (such as texts, emails, etc) between Seth Rich and Wikileaks – however those messages were not released for security reasons.
    
    I’d also suggest that they ask him why he concluded that ‘Guccifer2″ was Russian as there are so many clues that he is in fact operating in the USA – timezones etc, and red-flags such as the deliberate contamination of documents with Cyrillic error messages. And why he didn’t investigate that either. Also worth noting that G2 released documents that he claimed to be from the DNC but were actually from John Podesta (version differences) although he never claimed to have actually hacked (phished) Podesta’s email account. Very strange, almost like he had internal access.
    
    I suspect that at least some of the answers as to why Mueller didn’t widen his investigation as might have been expected is that the still largely redacted second scope letter deliberately narrowed the scope – and a possible third scope letter may have done even more. This would be possibly to prevent the inquiry from dragging on forever by keeping it narrow, or less likely just to prevent any serious investigation of such matters. However Barr is probably reasonably on top of investigations into the wider aspects and teh criminal offending by the Clintons, DNC, and the Obama administration in general.
    
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    June 28, 2019 1:02pm
- Im Right
  
  Trouble is Scott, even if Mueller gives no new evidence to what we already know, CNN and the left media will read into anything he doesn’t say, or does say (even if repeating what we already know) as being PROOF that Trump is guilty of obstruction…unfortunately the left (CNN, MSNBC et al) have too much invested to drop this, they have nothing else to report and this is their only reason for existing last 2 years.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:24am
- Bell-47
  
  It will blow up in their faces as Lindsey Graham has said. The FISA warrant that kicked this all off will be the focus of republicans and will lead to further subpoena’s of those involved. IMHO this is not just another stunt by the dems to keep the ball rolling, they want to discredit Muller (even though he is their own) so the whole enquiry is reopened. They will be going for interference by AG Barr on behalf of Trump. No such interference occurred of course but they don’t have to prove it, the line of questioning will write the story for them. If they try this they better be sure they can pull it off because if they openly burn Muller the resulting shitstorm won’t be pretty.
  
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  June 28, 2019 12:02pm
BrownSnake

The Sound of the Captain cooking “5g” eggs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcmJ66S6AUs

Johnny Cash – Dirty Old Egg Sucking Dog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYNK8A_bXwA
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June 28, 2019 8:37am
BeaB

Radio NZ this morning did a once over lightly on the reshuffle and dodgy SSC review of the ‘leak’ but drilled down to find out the really important matter of whether the leader of the opposition had really had dinner with the housing spokesperson. Perhaps National really is of far more interest to them than the actions of the government. Or perhaps they still have stardust in their eyes.
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June 28, 2019 8:40am
- MCos
  
  Also a lengthy interview with some MPs off to watch the cricket World Cup at taxpayers expense,
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:55am
hullkiwi

Just had a call from Mrs HK as to why National can’t beat JA head on.

Media Works Auckland Radio Station the Breeze does a Friday slot with JA. This morning’s highlight……

Jacinda is jealous of Julia Gillard. You see Julia’s partner was a hairdresser, so every morning she would have her hair set cut and blow waved. Poor Jacinda doesn’t have and besides she doesn’t have time, because she has…..the baby to deal with……

I don’t whether to break down and cry or send her a message along the lines, you are a waste of space and money, you are fired!
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June 28, 2019 8:41am
- dubya
  
  Australia had a Hairdresser’s wife. We get a fish (erman’s) wife…
  
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  June 28, 2019 8:56am
dubya

Anyone notice that Stuff happily opened up comments on an article declaring Judith Collins’ “demotion”, but no comments allowed on the Labour reshuffle articles?

Is the Nasty Ardern to be protected from criticism?
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June 28, 2019 9:00am
- MrLovebucket
  
  I chuckled yesterday when she again referred to their nine years of neglect in opposition which has led them to be woefully ill-prepared to govern.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:49am
- kowtow
  
  Keep pointing out the hypocrisy of the lying media , the penny might finally drop for the slow and low information voters and accelerate the death of the legacy media or preferably force them to reform themselves ( fat chance)
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:06am
- mandk
  
  I see the DomPost lists eight promotions and only one demotion in the Labour ranks.
  
  Lollies for everyone. The wellbeing of the Labour caucus has benefited from the year of delivery.
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:16am
- kevn
  
  Collins stays #4
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:16am
Hugh Pavletich

… CHINA …

Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/06/links-28-june-2019/#comment-3379103

Baoshang Bank collapse threatens China’s economy and may trigger central bank response – ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-28/baoshang-bank-collapse-hits-lending-threatens-chinese-economy/11252022

Up until a few weeks ago the Baoshang Bank’s prospects seemed bright enough.

According to Baoshing’s most recent regulatory filing, the smallish lender based in Inner-Mongolia, made a $600 million profit in 2017.

It had assets of around $90 billion, non-performing loans were modest — under 2 per cent — and its capital buffers would fit comfortably with the global demands of a Tier1 bank.

Then it collapsed. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Google NZ News Search ‘China Economy’

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=china+economy&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipi-3Bv4rjAhUSX30KHekND7YQ_AUIESgC&biw=946&bih=416
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June 28, 2019 9:01am
lastmanstanding

I watched Israel Folau on Jones & Co last night. Very impressive young man.

Far more impressive than Joyce the gay CEO of Qantas who ordered the ARU to fire him.

And far more impressive than the ANZ who are bullying Netball NZ to fire Maria Folau.

This is the same ANZ who breached the Reserve Bank capital requirement rules for a number of years all the time lying they werent.

This is the same ANZ who had to fire their CEO for fraud.

This is the same ANZ where the acting CEO signed off on the sale of a house purchased by the bank in 2011 for $7.5M and sold to the ex CEOs in July 2017 for $6.9M the same month as the latest Auckland property valuations were released.

BTW my Auckland property value increased 106% over that time.

I say Corporates should stick to the job of maximising returns to their shareholders and stop being moral arbiters.
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June 28, 2019 9:08am
Poppa

So what the hell is going on?? Now we have “3 pies” Woods leading a team including Mahuta who are going to solve the housing cluster left by Twyford.

If ever there was a more unqualified bunch of morons to do anything I would be shocked! Geez that talent pool is shallow
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June 28, 2019 9:19am
MrTips

Random thought for the day on ministerial changes in our CoL:

Jacinda is Lead Float in the Parade of Stupidity.
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June 28, 2019 9:20am
- MrLovebucket
  
  Jacinduh isn’t Lead anything. To lead you must have some basic things like a spine. I’ve seen jelly-fish with more spine.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:45am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Lead float, as in lead parachute.
    
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    June 28, 2019 9:47pm
Yvette

“Israel Folau breaks silence with television interview”
And again he definitely emphasises the authority of the Bible in his life –
but has misquoted it

“Look, the Bible and what I believe comes out of that is very important to me and, as a Christian, I believe it’s my duty to be able to share that and that’s part of who I am and what my purpose is,” he said. “My identity is founded by what’s written in that book. It’s who I am and how I conduct myself every day.” [1]

But, apparently the graphic posted by Israel Folau paraphrases 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 – … Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
– which does not mention “Hell Awaits You”. Rather, such sinners “will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

The text from Galatians 5: 19-21, which Folau ‘tweeted’ next to the paraphrase graphic, says the same : “… they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

But strangely, no one seems particularly interested in that. Would it “spoil the narrative”?

Everyone in general hammered Brian Tamaki for his mis-reading and misquoting the Bible, and his conclusion that sexual deviance, particularly homosexual sin, causes earthquakes despite their tectonic plate origin, eonic speed and collateral damage.
But this entire Folau row is based on a misquote as well.

I try to live my life according to the Bible and I believe it is my duty to share the word of the Bible.
Earlier this year, I uploaded some messages from the Bible on my Instagram page. – Israel Folau [2]

No – a personal comment was uploaded, also one accurate Bible quote, and a graphic ‘meme’ based on a Bible text, but a misquote, and that is what has become the crux of the controversial post.

However, alas, it seems – “I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Make straight the way of the Lord’”

[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12244666
[2] from original GoFundMe page, now on Australian Christian Lobby page.
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June 28, 2019 9:37am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The “misquote” is your accepted interpretation. Who has abolished Hell? Is there a third, undescribed state between the Kingdom of God and Hell?
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:05am
- Fletch
  
  Um, and what do you think “not inherit the Kingdom of God” actually means? Think about it….. Here is the verse in the Contemporary English Version of the Bible –
  
  Don’t you know that evil people won’t have a share in the blessings of God’s kingdom? Don’t fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual will share in God’s kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others.
  
  There are only two choices – being in God’s Kingdom, or the other place, Hell.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:12am
  - Ed Snack
    
    To be fair, Dante identified 4 locations, Limbo (vestibule to Hell but not actually in Hell itself – mainly occupied it is said by virtuous pagans and the good but unbaptized such as children who dies at birth. Then Hell of course in it’s multiple levels. Then Purgatory – admittedly only a waiting station before admission to Heaven but the wait can be mighty long for some; and finally Heaven itself.
    
    Other religions with equivalent claims to being “true” of course have differing views.
    
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    June 28, 2019 1:09pm
  - Swifty
    
    According to the Bible, yes, there is a thing called the afterlife are there are two possibilities of where you will spend it – heaven or hell.
    
    Which goes to show you what a absolute book of fiction it is.
    
    Alternatively, show me the solid evidence for such things and I’ll change my mind.
    
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    June 28, 2019 1:10pm
- Nukuleka
  
  You are fixated on this issue and should give it a rest. How many times are you intending to make the identical point?
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:53am
- mandk
  
  Given that you say Israel Folau was paraphrasing 1 Corinthians, you can’t say he misquoted the Bible when he said that the sinners he mentioned will go to hell.
  
  The message was clear; and correct, in terms of what the Bible says.
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:23am
- White Anglo Saxon Protestant
  
  What do you think it means, to not ” inherit the kingdom of God”?
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:27am
- Scott
  
  Yvette – I did try and correct you on this once. The phrase “not inheriting the kingdom of God” means that the person is damned for all eternity and will not attain heaven. The only other place is hell.
  
  So Israel Folau is quite correct in his paraphrase of the Bible.
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:32am
  - Ed Snack
    
    But it is a paraphrase and is subject to interpretation.
    
    According to the Catholics at least, one can indulge in all the listed sins for one’s (almost) entire life as long as one confesses ones sins and repents before dying.
    
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    June 28, 2019 1:12pm
Maggie Pie

Its a mad, mad, mad, mad world 🙁

A pregnant woman who was shot in the stomach during a fight has been charged with the manslaughter of her unborn baby, while charges against the shooter have been dismissed.
https://www.abc.net.au/2019-06-27/alabama-woman-indicted-over-the-shooting-death-of-unborn-baby/11258240
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June 28, 2019 9:43am
stephieboy

Science further extending our frontiers of knowledge regarding the origins and the ascent of man out of Africa,

78,000-year-old record of Middle and Later Stone Age innovation in an East African tropical forest

Abstract

“The Middle to Later Stone Age transition in Africa has been debated as a significant shift in human technological, cultural, and cognitive evolution. However, the majority of research on this transition is currently focused on southern Africa due to a lack of long-term, stratified sites across much of the African continent. Here, we report a 78,000-year-long archeological record from Panga ya Saidi, a cave in the humid coastal forest of Kenya. Following a shift in toolkits ~67,000 years ago, novel symbolic and technological behaviors assemble in a non-unilinear manner. Against a backdrop of a persistent tropical forest-grassland ecotone, localized innovations better characterize the Late Pleistocene of this part of East Africa than alternative emphases on dramatic revolutions or migrations…”

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-04057-3
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June 28, 2019 10:20am
- rangitoto
  
  Quite interesting. Australian aboriginals arrived in the Northern territory around that time and were thereafter relatively isolated compared to other populations although I have read that there was another period of some gene flow to Australia around 5,000 years ago.
  
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  June 28, 2019 12:04pm
  - GoVege
    
    And according to yesterday’s news another species of monkey is experiencing its own Stone Age, having invented tools!
    Just hope they dont end up a bunch of racist speciesist homophobes like so many of the crowd currently in charge of this planet… 🙂
    
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    June 28, 2019 3:52pm
    - Tall Man
      
      You really don’t like people that think differently than you do you?
      
      What makes you so certain that you are right?
      
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      June 28, 2019 9:26pm
- cmm
  
  They are still pushing hard on the Black African (abantu) origins because that is politically expedient.
  
  78,000 is yesterday compared to the true original inhabitants of Africa: the Khoi San (aka Bushmen) who now predominantly live in the Namib/Kalahari who can be dated back further than 100k years.
  
  “Following a shift in toolkits ~67,000 years ago, novel symbolic and technological behaviors assemble in a non-unilinear manner.”
  
  Geez, some academics really take the piss. If they are so good with non-linear technology then where’s the wheel?
  
  The best thing that ever happened to Africa was colonisation. That’s what really gave it a boost in symboloy (whatever the hell that means) – including creating written languages for them and technology (both linear – trains, roads, telephone and electricity as well as non-linear – wheels, food, medicine…). We can show that because colonialisation created relative peace and prosperity for Africa.
  
  The same could be said of many other places including Britain. It was the Romans that really set the Brits up for future success.
  
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  July 2, 2019 1:15pm
Brian McDonald

Looking at approx figures for votes against the End of Life Choice Bill
Nats of 55 2/3rds against, of their number
LP of 44 1/4 against, of their number
NZF For
Greens For
Act For

Do those figures suggest the Nats want to control the lives of others at around a level of 65% of their own number?. Labour at 24%, NZF, Greens and Act not at all? Or does it show that 25% of the Labour Caucus are more aligned with 66% of the opinions of the Nats, on this topic and maybe others. Another perspective is of the ‘no’ votes 4 out of 5 are Nats.There are all sorts of other variations to this but it would be interesting to compare it with public sentiment on this particular issue which might lead to a conclusion that a ‘moral’ right in NZ politics have a disproportionate impact than the general belief that it is the centre spectrum from where the country’s politics are steered.
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June 28, 2019 10:29am
- Nukuleka
  
  You clearly haven’t followed the fact that the overwhelming percentage of submissions made on this Bill were opposed to it.
  
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  June 28, 2019 10:54am
  - rangitoto
    
    How many of the submissions were copy and paste?
    
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    June 28, 2019 11:55am
    - White Anglo Saxon Protestant
      
      So? not everyone is articulate…
      As long as each submission comes from a real individual, i.e., not just sent from multiple made up names why does it matter if its the same text as another, if it’s what the submitter agrees with?
      
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      June 28, 2019 12:30pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Yes, there has been a strong effort to influence others in what should be a personal decision.
      
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      June 28, 2019 1:16pm
      - White Anglo Saxon Protestant
        
        True.
        The effort to paint those not in favour as either brutally uncaring, ignorant or a brainless religious fanatics have been hard to miss.
        
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        June 28, 2019 1:44pm
- mandk
  
  Or it could simply be that the Nats who voted against are concerned that the supposed safeguards will not actually be effective?
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:25am
- Scott
  
  Brian McDonald – the National parliamentarians who voted no to the euthanasia bill are not trying to control others. It’s the exact opposite.
  
  Given this bill will give the state the power to kill innocent people, it is in fact a massive increase in state power.
  
  Under our current law you cannot be lawfully killed. Under the euthanasia law you can be lawfully killed by government funded “doctors” as long as you have filled out the correct paperwork.
  
  And given that in places like Holland there are many cases of people who have been euthanised without their explicit consent and we can see that the power of the state is exponentially being increased by the practice of euthanasia.
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:35am
brett68

Is Bridges still alive?
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June 28, 2019 10:30am
- White Anglo Saxon Protestant
  
  Why do you care… you’re voting ACT, remember?
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:57am
  - brett68
    
    I don’t really, he’d probably poll a lot better if he stays away from the media.
    Every time he’s interviewed he probably loses more votes, never seen/heard a politician as inept as Bridges when it comes to dealing with the media, a guaranteed train wreck every time.
    
    Thing is though he is the leader of the largest party in parliament yet he’s completely invisible, I do wonder if he’s been given the arse card privately from management and they’re just allowing Judith Collins to build up more of a gentler profile before he gets the chop
    
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    June 28, 2019 12:34pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Simon is out in the electorates where the real voters are.
      
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      June 28, 2019 2:03pm
burt

From Stuff;

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/113813526/victim-support-reveals-final-payments-to-people-affected-by-christchurch-mosque-attack

Attack survivor Abdul Aziz says dividing the victims into different categories is bad for the community.

Right, so dividing your Mosque into males and females is fine, dividing society into Muslim and Non-Muslim is fine – but you’re not happy other peoples money hasn’t been divided according to how you want it.

What a complete w4nk3r !
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June 28, 2019 10:57am
- Swifty
  
  Yeah, I really just don’t see this guys point.
  
  Is he saying he wants unharmed witnesses paid out the same as people who were shot? Or families who lost their bread-winning Dad?
  
  RNZ had an interview with the bloke who oversaw the compensation process for 9/11, Sandy Hook and a few others. A great interview. He was very plain speaking and was absolutely certain unharmed witnesses should not be compensated especially where that money comes from the pockets of those injured or who lost loved ones etc.
  
  Worth checking out.
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:15am
  - Swifty
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018701557/compensation-for-mosque-shooting-victims
    
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    June 28, 2019 1:20pm
    - Happychappy
      
      Swifty I wonder what Nationality these two people were and who made the call to not charge them.
      https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/113826068/pair-lied-about-being-at-mosque-during-terror-attack
      What sort of message does this send.
      
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      June 28, 2019 4:47pm
      - Swifty
        
        Indeed.
        
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        June 28, 2019 5:22pm
- GoVege
  
  Isn’t this the brave man who took on a heavily armed terrorist with only a cash machine?
  Hardly a “wanker”.
  And that “other people’s money” was freely given to support the victims.
  
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  June 28, 2019 11:23am
  - burt
    
    OK, rather than call him that can we just agree he’s an ungrateful person who should really just say “thank you” to all the people who donated.
    
    Also, do you have any comment on how ironic it is that he’s saying that ‘division’ is bad for the community?
    
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    June 28, 2019 2:09pm
JibberJabber

Another reason why not to eat Hell`s shite “pizzas”.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113824494/hell-pizza-covertly-dishes-up-beyond-meat-burger-patties
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June 28, 2019 11:15am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And wasn’t this the same crowd that put condoms in peoples pizzas?
  
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  June 28, 2019 1:36pm
- GoVege
  
  “Lots of people are put off by fake meat” …..only people who have never visited an abbatoir.
  
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  June 28, 2019 3:04pm
  - Colville
    
    I have just come back from a successful armed wander…
    
    There is nothing like having to shoot then gut and carry your meat to the truck to really appreciate a steak.
    
    I just cant get that excited about hunting a lettuce sammich!
    
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    June 28, 2019 7:38pm
cmm

Our criminal justice system is, generally, designed by nice people who only ever encounter nice people and think everyone is nice.

Therefore we end up with a bunch of bleeding hearts worrying about prisoners’ rights, trying to reform them and treating prisoners as victims too.

A system like that cannot cope with the reality of the evil people who really do exist and need to be managed out of society so that we can function in a civilized way.

Eugene Daniel Baker, one of Petone’s finest, killed a pensioner, decaptitated him, then paraded down the road waving the head around.

How can you possibly try to fit a person like this into any system? Society does not really have a mechanism to cope with people like this

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12244709
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June 28, 2019 11:30am
- kowtow
  
  Case in today’s ODT.
  
  Guy takes part in a robbery , accomplice shoots victim in leg with a .22 ( uh , not one of those “dangerous” ones) , gets 5 years and only serves 1 year 8 months !Granted he may have got time off for being in remand prior to sentencing but still bollocks.
  Also funny is how corrections describe a man in his late 30’s as ‘an angry young man’ .
  Couldn’t make it up.
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/crime/back-prison-after-complete-turnaround
  
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  June 28, 2019 2:34pm
Maggie Pie

O.M.G. This from my twitter feed.

‘Men who identify as women are being invited to have Cervical Smear Tests –
even though they don’t have a Cervix’ !

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1144369559606124544
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June 28, 2019 11:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They will just have to get one then, won’t they? Perhaps they could be appended like colostomy bags.
  
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  June 28, 2019 2:06pm
Herodotus

As if our Minister of Ed doesn’t have enough to keep him going ?
Today is the day for The Task Force to report back to the minister on the Tomorrow’s Schools review.
I wonder what suggestions will be taken up and the cost ??

https://conversation.education.govt.nz/conversations/tomorrows-schools-review/
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June 28, 2019 11:32am
krazykiwi

Stabbings in London are now so commonplace that thugs are bored with humans and have turned their knives on retired donkeys.
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June 28, 2019 11:41am
- GoVege
  
  Bast*rd!!
  Thankfully Bimbo survived.
  Unlike our own Kiwi mini horse who was butchered and died.
  Thank goodness that sadistic creep has been apprehended.
  
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  June 28, 2019 3:38pm
- The King
  
  “thugs”
  
  Young Black males.
  
  Ill say it for you.
  
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  June 28, 2019 6:08pm
Swifty

Hyung Soo Lee or Murray’s Bay, Auckland is a callous, dirty, corrupt, thieving scumbag who cares not a jot for NZ’s hard won reputation:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112342524/mnuka-honey-fraud-evergreen-life-ltd-handed-260000-fine-for-adding-synthetics-to-its-product

A question for ILG – just when will Mr Hyung Soo Lee be leaving our fair shores?
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June 28, 2019 11:41am
- Maggie Pie
  
  On a positive note, according to the story, if you happen to have any in your pantry you can use it as a ‘Fake Tanning’ cream 🙂
  
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  June 28, 2019 12:38pm
- GoVege
  
  BUT…the callous dirty corrupt thieving scumbag looks suitably contrite.
  What about that guy who passed off millions of cage eggs as free range to unsuspecting customers a few years back?
  Thousands of innocent imprisoned chooks suffered to produce those eggs when they were supposed to be free as…a bird.
  
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  June 28, 2019 3:30pm
Martin Williams

She’s lucky he didn’t shoot her.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/06/adorable-video-of-us-cop-pulling-over-baby-daughter-goes-viral.html

Oh, that’s right, she’s not black…
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June 28, 2019 11:43am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Uh huh, always seeing everything in terms of race – cos you’re a racist who implicitly buys into your being racially superior – hence your concern trolling and virtue signalling over race.
  
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  June 28, 2019 12:19pm
  - Swifty
    
    Heh – yes, a very good point.
    
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    June 28, 2019 1:51pm
- Swifty
  
  It is now clear to all that you have become deranged.
  
  Demented.
  
  If an African-American is shot in the US, child or adult, there is a 94% chance they were shot by another African-American, according to the US Bureau of Statistics.
  
  #BlackLivesMatter – but not to large numbers of blacks it seems.
  
  Why aren’t you posting about that? Does your derangement stop you from seeing the whole picture? Or does it just not suit you to address this elephant in the room?
  
  Edit: sp
  
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  June 28, 2019 12:59pm
  - GoVege
    
    Im sure I saw a video of a white cop shooting dead a black guy, who was running for his life, on the telly a year or so ago.
    
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    June 28, 2019 3:20pm
    - Swifty
      
      So?
      
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      June 28, 2019 3:27pm
      - GoVege
        
        So it DOES happen!
        Have you ever seen a video of a black cop pumping bullet after bullet into the back of a white dude sprinting for his life?
        
        0 8
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        June 28, 2019 3:32pm
      - Swifty
        
        What about black officers shooting unarmed white women dressed in their pyjamas?
        
        Does that count?
        
        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mohamed-noor-trial-prosecutor-cop-shot-justine-damond-woman-who-called-911-without-saying-a-word/
        
        6 0
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        June 28, 2019 4:24pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Sure have.
        
        6 0
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        June 28, 2019 5:04pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Silly argument even if the statistics are correct, to justify police shooting of blacks by saying blacks shoot one another at a high level is stupid.
    
    2 1
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    June 28, 2019 9:05pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Chance of being shot by a policeman while black – 0.0002%, chance of being shot by another young black while black – 2%
  
  Funny how you can’t cope with the fact that young black men kill each other (and bystanders) at rates over 1,000% higher than cops do. You probably think that “hands up, don’t shoot” was an honest campaign too !
  
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  June 28, 2019 1:18pm
- mandk
  
  I’m wondering why don’t you hang out with your friends on another site, MW?
  
  Could it be that even scumbag lefties think you are an arsehole?
  
  13 1
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  June 28, 2019 1:24pm
Ross12

Another win for President Trump

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-27/pelosi-folds-confirms-house-will-reluctantly-pass-trumps-emergency-border-bill
19 0
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June 28, 2019 11:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nancy finally gave in? She needs to be careful, horizontal Harris will take over, or even AOC!
  Nancy struggles to join tow coherent sentences together
  
  2 0
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  June 28, 2019 4:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    *two ffs
    
    2 0
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    June 28, 2019 4:18pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Tow could be appropriate without join.
      
      0 0
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      June 28, 2019 9:08pm
Swifty

Rents rise all over the country:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113843874/trade-me-reports-uncommon-rent-rise

Totally and utterly predictable given supply and cost pressures created by this government.

I do hope low wage NZers, among others, see the connection and vote accordingly.
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June 28, 2019 12:40pm
Maggie Pie

This is an absolute game changer so happy to share it with the group. If your as mad on ‘home-made French Fries’ as my partner is, you need to try this abfab seasoning:

1 tsp each of Chicken & Beef Stock pdr.
1/2 tsp soft brown sugar
1/4 tsp salt
Blend everything together and sprinkle on your chips 🙂
[ If you scale-up to make a big batch, store in air tight container in frige. ]
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June 28, 2019 12:53pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Is this before or after you cook ’em, Margaret?
  
  2 7
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  June 28, 2019 4:51pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    After, silly!
    Get youself a 5 ltr deep-fryer like ours and top up with peanut oil.
    We keep it outside next to the barbie otherwise it’ll stink the house out.
    Also great for frying those frozen Hot X buns left over from Easter. Serve with rasp jam and cream.
    ABFAB 🙂
    
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    June 28, 2019 5:35pm
Swifty

Widow of CHC victim doesn’t know whether she will have to return to Pakistan.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018701302/mosque-attack-widow-fears-family-will-be-forced-to-leave-nz

I’m really torn about this and I feel for the widow and her kids terribly.

However, according to the story, she is here on a visitor visa (not a work visa) and has been here for six years, has chosen to have three kids (while her immigration status has been uncertain throughout that entire time), now NZers are funding her and her children’s lives through ACC and also she now wants permanent residency for her and for a bunch of her rellies – her parents and brother-in-law etc.

A few questions:

1. She says she can’t live on her own and with three
kids. Why not? Tens if not hundreds of thousands of NZers do this (sole parenting) every day. I am one of them.

2. Since when have we started paying ACC (workers compensation) to people visiting NZ and who have never worked? Or is this somehow in recognition of hubbies efforts?

3. Are we being emotionally blackmailed here – especially in relation to her family coming to live here? If a Japanese family, for example, comes over here for an adventure holiday and hubby falls off a bluff, should we instantly give permanent residency to the family and any others from Japan they wish to bring in too? I think not.

I think that person might be better off back in Pakistan where, clearly, she has the necessary family support. Or is she requiring permanent residency here because she knows well that NZers will pay handsomely for her upkeep, and for her autistic and other kids, and that of her rellies – and which will not be available to her in Pakistan – i.e. it is a purely economic decision?

As usual, grateful for the thoughts of others.
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June 28, 2019 1:41pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Yes, well, you no what they say about ‘great minds’, Swifty.
  Both me and my partner are right with you on this.
  
  11 0
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  June 28, 2019 2:04pm
- GoVege
  
  You can’t really blame them, Swifty, I mean who would want to go back to a place like Pakistan?
  After all this family have been through,and if they are genuinely willing to integrate with our values, it seems it would be pretty unkind to send them back.
  
  1 13
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  June 28, 2019 3:16pm
  - Swifty
    
    And the rellies?
    
    8 0
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    June 28, 2019 3:25pm
    - GoVege
      
      If they make a worthwhile contribution to our country, and adapt to our values, a few of them should be allowed in.
      ( I worry more about the home-grown crims running baby factories, actually.)
      
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      June 28, 2019 3:47pm
      - Jack5
        
        No problem, GoVege, open the border. There are tens of millions of people looking for a Western home.
        
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        June 28, 2019 4:16pm
      - MCos
        
        I’ve never been to to Pakistan, Jack5, but I’m familiar with Thailand.
        When I first went there I used to think NZ was the bees knees and Thai people would jump at the chance to move over here.
        Wrong.
        Not interested and once I’d been there for awhile it was obvious why, familiarity of surroundings and location of friends and family.
        
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        June 28, 2019 5:49pm
      - Swifty
        
        But how can you assess that at the point of application?
        
        You can’t.
        
        0 0
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        June 28, 2019 6:12pm
Swifty

It was only a matter of time before the leeches crawled out of the woodwork:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/113826068/pair-lied-about-being-at-mosque-during-terror-attack

And good on you Zuhair Darwish.
10 0
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June 28, 2019 2:41pm
- cmm
  
  Well colour me surprised!
  
  #WeAreOne
  
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  June 28, 2019 3:35pm
- cmm
  
  “The pair, who stood to gain $17,000 each, escaped charges and were instead warned by police, who would not say why they chose not to prosecute them.”
  
  Abusing generosity by committing fraud is at the extreme end of fraudulent behaviour. People opened their hearts and wallets and got exploited.
  
  Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me once, shame on me. I bet I’m not the only one who will feel less sympathetic next time around.
  
  But no prosecution because… why? Let me offer some options:
  * Racism: we can’t make the numbers look bad.
  * Foreigners: If they’d been convicted they might have lost residence and ILG is sensitive about giving crims residence.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/113826068/pair-lied-about-being-at-mosque-during-terror-attack
  
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  June 28, 2019 4:21pm
stinkypete

is hager having a moment
he has released footage of insurgents armed with rocket launchers as proof of his book being correct?
4 0
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June 28, 2019 3:01pm
GoVege

Burt: surely the man is allowed to voice his opinion?
It seems to the survivors of the terrorist attack HAVE shown gratitude.
As one of the donors, I would like to know that the money is getting to where its needed.
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June 28, 2019 3:11pm
- cmm
  
  Some have certainly shown gratitude, but there have been quite a few complaining that they want more hand out and are seeing this as an opportunity to exploit.
  
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  June 28, 2019 3:58pm
  - GoVege
    
    Cmm, if a terrorist had taken out 51 men women and children at our family’s church I bet we’d feel extremely angry and would expect to receive sufficient support to recover from our injuries both physical and emotional.
    We spend millions on idiots who maim themselves and others by driving drunk or drugged, solely due to their own stupidity or illegal behaviour.
    I personally feel we’ve got off pretty lightly over the mosque massacre.
    
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    June 28, 2019 4:12pm
cmm

Lock down in Bishopdale Chch this afternoon… Anyone got details?
3 0
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June 28, 2019 3:38pm
- cmm
  
  Light on detail, but…
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12244935
  
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  June 28, 2019 4:03pm
Jack5

Vladimir Putin puts the boot into West’s gay rights and multiculturism:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7190613/Liberalisms-day-boasts-Putin.html
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June 28, 2019 3:47pm
- All_on_Red
  
  If you can get access to on FT, the full interview is an interesting read
  
  2 0
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  June 28, 2019 4:58pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    https://mobile.twitter.com/henryjfoy/status/1144316150429442048
    
    2 0
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    June 28, 2019 5:04pm
Gravelroad

The owner of our local magazine shop (not a chain bookstore) told us today that there will be no more gun/shooting periodicals coming in from the USA.
Where will this end?
No books or films which include shooting, firearm information or gun fighting?
Or just censored?
I hope all the celebrity Hollywood stars who call for firearm bans will now not act in any films which feature shooting.
Likewise, video games which rely on the use of firearms for entertainment – will they be banned/censored?
Artworks? No guns to be painted.
Look out UK Countrylife magazine – no reporting on the hunting season.
No shooting parties to feature in Downton Abbey or similar TV programmes.
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June 28, 2019 3:51pm
- cmm
  
  Time to subscribe to SOF on principle:
  https://www.sofmag.com/
  
  2 0
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  June 28, 2019 4:04pm
- Jack5
  
  Must be the magazine distributor. For more than a century that was Gordon & Gotch. It’s now called Ovato Retail Distribution, a subsidiary of Ovato, of Australia.
  
  The print group PMP bought Gordon & Gotch from Fairfax for $Aust 4.4 million in 2004. Now the whole group, including Gordon & Gotch, has become Ovato.
  
  PMP does a lot of print business in New Zealand, and is bound to have some gun-hobby customers who can explain the shooters’ side of things to the company’s decision makers.
  
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  June 28, 2019 4:12pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Pick up the distribution rights, do some mail outs via the Gun clubs and gun retailers plus advertise with some Google Ads and targetted trade me search ads and sell them yourself
  
  4 0
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  June 28, 2019 7:39pm
Hugh Pavletich

… New Zealand housing speculators ‘flee for the hills’ …

First-home buyers bigger part of housing market than investors for first time since records began … Susan Edmunds … Stuff New Zealand

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113849539/firsthome-buyers-bigger-part-of-housing-market-than-investors-for-first-time-since-records-began?cid=app-iPad

First-home buyers borrowed more money in May than investors – the first time they have been ahead since records began.

There was a total of $6.47 billion borrowed from banks in May to buy houses, a decrease of $120 million at the same time last year.

Investors borrowed $1.14b and first-home buyers $1.15b.

The Reserve Bank started its data series in 2014 and this is the first time that first-home buyers have borrowed more than mortgaged investors.

In August 2014, first-home buyers borrowed just $392m, compared to $2.4b for investors. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… Housing speculators are acutely aware that the days of grossly irresponsible housing inflation ( central and local government – led poverty creation programmes )are well and truly over … as illustrated within this recent Interest Co NZ article …

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/99106/miserable-end-summer-housing-market-especially-auckland-where-march-sales-volumes

… extract …

… However the trend of falling sales is not a new one.

The number of national sales in March has fallen compared to the previous March every year since 2017 and has now dropped by 27% since 2016.

The all time peak for March, since interest.co.nz began collating the figures in 1992, was in 2004 when 11,292 properties were sold, compared with 6938 in March this year. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… The ‘flight to affordability’ is well and truly underway … check the latest REINZ Residential Report https://reinz.co.nz/residential-property-data-gallery and Performance Urban Planning http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .
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June 28, 2019 5:42pm
Fletch

Looks like the latest Dem debate is a dumpster fire.
Biden was especially bad (saying his first priority as president would be to defeat Trump) and all 10 candidates support healthcare funding for illegals.
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June 28, 2019 9:05pm

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