General Debate 27 June 2019

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hullkiwi

The Folau matter is getting out of hand with reports that HCF Insurance, a sponsor of Netball Australia are talking to Netball Australia about Maria Folau.

About what? Guilt by association? Her religious beliefs?

When will the opponents of the Folaus be happy?
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June 27, 2019 8:07am
- G152
  
  Hopefully the Folaus will have the support to go after these and remove great amounts of money from them…
  I don’t like religions of any kind but this is sheer nasty victimisation of some-one who believes what he believes and should be allowed to say it.
  Freedom of speech
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:28am
  - Rich Prick
    
    This looks like one of those leftist purges where the whole family goes down. Nasty.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:40am
    - Inandout
      
      RP, the US left have actually destroyed their enemy’s lives, and bankrupted some. Thankfully this is getting less and less as conservatives gain more strength.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:01am
- Andrei
  
  One of the curious things about this is that the leftoids who normally hate corporate power being used to advance political agendas are right behind corporate power being used to vilify and punish the Folaus for holding their traditional values
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:33am
- Wangas Feral
  
  When they are utterly destroyed. That seems to be how the left works. Break lockstep with accepted ideology and you are less than human. There will be gulags in the west in our lifetime I am sure.
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:36am
  - BrownSnake
    
    The Digital Gulag is under construction if you have not noticed – this forum is part of it.
    
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    June 27, 2019 10:27am
  - coge
    
    There is a much greater awareness of this now. It’s being spoken about in public discourse. Look at Google’s reputation these days. The energy created by this being flipped over onto the corporate do gooders, political elites and the popular mass media pushing it.
    
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    June 27, 2019 11:31am
- srylands
  
  I find the whole thing disturbing.
  
  I heard Golriz Ghahraman on the radio tonight saying that “rainbow people” needed to be protected from the hate speech of which Folau is guilty.
  
  Firstly, I am sure that most gays don’t give a shit about what he says.
  
  Secondly, gays do not deserve any more protection than anyone else, and certainly not for hurt feelings.
  
  However I do agree that if you sign a contract with your employer saying you won’t do things on social media, then you need to abide by that. I am quite comfortable with contracts limiting free speech if they are freely entered into. But that is quite different to the argument that most people are running. “Rainbow people” need the protection of the law just like you and me – no more no less.
  
  EDIT – the lawyers here can advise if you can in fact contract out of “free speech” with your employer. I am assuming you can. You certainly can’t go on social media and denigrate your employer. I assume that your employer can also contract with your employer to not go on social media and say “gays will go to hell”.
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The terms of a contract may not be enforceable if they are contrary to public policy. Certainly it is reasonable for an employment contract to not allow denigrating ones employer.
    
    For an employer to expect an employee to watch their mouth or pen on regular community moral issues is close to being against public/community interest. What is a community without free speech but a family of robots.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:20am
    - Paulus
      
      Have the Folau’s denigrated their employers.
      Where ?
      
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      June 27, 2019 1:11pm
  - Evadne
    
    They’re good questions, no doubt up for consideration in the upcoming legal action.
    
    Plus, did Folau even have a contract that said that? He denies there was any form of social media clause in the contract… Hence RA’s reliance on the general “bringing into disrepute” clause.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:23am
    - srylands
      
      So if a rugby player posted:
      
      “All evangelical Christians are dopy bastards”, would that have brought RA into disrepute? What about “All anti-vaxxers are mad”. Or “Vaccines cause autism”.
      
      How do you decide what is acceptable or not?
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:49am
      - Martin Williams
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Those positions are personal choices. Being gay is not.
        
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        June 27, 2019 10:13am
      - srylands
        
        So if I tweet “Gays should not be permitted to care for children”, or “homosexuality should be illegal” should that be prohibited hate speech?
        
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        June 27, 2019 10:56am
      - Batman
        
        No but both of those views are stupid and deserve to be mocked ?
        
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        June 27, 2019 12:16pm
      - rangitoto
        
        So if he had posted “all moslems will be condemned to hell” then you would support that?
        
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        June 27, 2019 10:59am
      - Jack5
        
        Martin, some argue that being gay is a personal choice.
        
        The truth is that it’s probably not a choice for the big majority of homosexuals. However, there are cases of people who routinely have sex as heterosexuals, then becoming homosexuals, then revert to being heterosexuals. Lesbians have a perhaps derogatory term for this minority: “hasbians”. Then there are “bisexuals”. Some must make a heterosexual/homosexual choice daily.
        
        However, your argument that “being gay” is not a personal choice is irrelevant to the Folau row.
        
        The core of all religions that I know of is a view, an opinion, on life after death. As a non-believer I would be destined for Folau’s Hell. So what? It’s Israel Folau’s belief, not mine, and he’s entitled to express his opinion. Also entitled to their opinion are Muslims who look forward to shagging themselves bored over a billion years with perpetually beautiful, “renewable” virgins.
        
        Can a religion exist without the right to express its beliefs – its opinion?
        
        The ones who should go to Hell are the corporates such as ANZ Bank New Zealand and HCF Insurance that are, by targeting the Folaus, leaning on all of our rights to free speech.
        
        I admire the Folaus for sticking to their guns. They are showing real courage.
        
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        June 27, 2019 11:03am
      - Batman
        
        It’s not a “choice” for anyone who is gay, lesbian, bi, or finds their brain located in a body of the wrong sex.
        
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        June 27, 2019 12:08pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        What rubbish!
        
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        June 27, 2019 11:08am
  - mandk
    
    Golriz Ghahraman is either being dim-witted or dishonest.
    
    Based on his beliefs, if Israel really hated homosexuals (and all the other groups he mentioned), he would say nothing and let them go to hell.
    
    As it was, his statement was clearly loving.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:31am
    - srylands
      
      I have followed her views closely. She wants to put a cloak of “safety” around any “minority” group. However my problem is that her cloak would extend to preventing hurt feelings, e.g. “I think that all trans women are really men.” or “I think homosexuals should be prevented from becoming school teachers”.
      
      Those statements would cause hurt feelings (although in a minority). But you should not legislate against hurt feelings.
      
      I have had people say to me “All Australians are racist”. I am (originally) Australian. That statement hurts my feelings. So what?
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:56am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Logical.
      If we really hate ____________ then we will ban all criticism of them and let them slide further down the statistical tables.
      
      Sounds about right.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:03am
  - andrew davies
    
    We spend millions of dollars teaching children that homosexuality is perfectly normal behaviour. Despite this Golriz claims gays need extra protection therefore she admits these programmes are a total failure.
    Could I have my money back please.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:36am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      We do send money on education around sexuality and then some benighted tool like Israel Folau undoes it all.
      
      You should be asking him for your money back.
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:43am
      - andrew davies
        
        If all that time and effort can be undone with a single tweet then it definitely is a waste of time and money.
        Thanks for confirming my point.
        
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        June 27, 2019 10:00am
      - GazzaW
        
        Be very careful Martin. Your mob is skating on thin ice over this issue given the absolute need for Labour to appease the conservative churchgoing PI voters who largely back the Folaus to the hilt.
        
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        June 27, 2019 10:18am
      - igm
        
        Sexuality as taught by unionised teachers would be pro-gay. Seems one or two Kiwis need to awake and see where this country is being taken.
        
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        June 27, 2019 10:58am
      - Batman
        
        A terrible hellscape where people are left to live their lives as they like and aren’t judged for not confirming to an out of date view?
        
        Sounds great. Party vote ACT! ?
        
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        June 27, 2019 12:10pm
      - tknorriss
        
        Except the evidence is very clearly that he isn’t homophobic, if you would bother to do some fact checking:
        
        https://www.whaleoil.net.nz/2019/06/the-medias-homophobic-lie/
        
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        June 27, 2019 11:58am
  - All_on_Red
    
    It’s been reported Folau never signed a Social Media clause.
    RA was supposed to have him do it but never followed up with his Manager.
    He was sacked for allegedly breaching their Code of Contract.
    Here’s where it gets tricky.
    Any decision on the Breach is actually subjective because someone has to judge how severe the Breach was.
    Importantly, the Code of Conduct is NOT a Contract.
    It’s a guideline and a Policy.
    The reason for this is that contracts are a two-way street whereas policies, particularly behavioural codes, are rules that an employer doesn’t necessarily want to be contractually bound to follow.
    It can bite both ways. In this case RA might be up for Religious Discrimination which their own Code of Conduct prohibits
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:39am
    - All_on_Red
      
      *sacked for breaching their Code of Conduct*
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:51am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Couple of things there.
    
    Gay people are in fact persecuted for something which they have no control over, particularly young people. For Folau to say they are going to hell for something they can’t control is similar to someone else persecuting him for being brown – ie not acceptable.
    
    Also, it is revealing you say “gays” don’t deserve any more protection than anyone else. They have been until recently criminalised for their sexuality and are still persecuted by people like Israel Folau. I suspect you feel the same about ‘protections’ for Maori and Indigenous Australians, and believe they should just forget about land theft and disenfranchisement, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and be more like white people.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:40am
    - andrew davies
      
      Persecuted? How? He is not advocating they be treated differently in any way.
      He has a different opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:05am
    - Scott
      
      Martin Williams – yes I do feel that about all those things. But our rights based agenda has to be balanced against competing rights.
      
      Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, the Koran and just about every other religion except liberal protestantism.
      
      Do religious people not have a right to speak out of their convictions?
      
      How has Mr Folau persecuted homosexuals? Have any of them lost their job because of Israel Folau?
      
      Well no its Israel who has lost his job. Because the homosexual ceo of Qantas was offended.
      
      The homosexuals are the persecutors in this situation. Israel Folau has not persecuted them by telling them the truth. In fact he’s being kind. At least they now have heard the message. What they do with it is up to them.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:06am
    - Andrei
      
      Gay people are in fact persecuted for something which they have no control over
      
      So Alan Joyce, openly gay and married to another man, CEO of Qantas and with an income over 99% higher most of the worlds population is persecuted?
      
      Pull the other one
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:12am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Your head is just chock full of bullshit eh?
      
      Gay people are no longer persecuted, the hard times were decades ago, there is no real discrimination against sexual orientation, gender or any race outside of a few fundie religious nutters, identitarian left wing and declining septuagenarians who don’t matter in our society. We will remain egalitarian and meritocratic so long as left wing don’t rise in power.
      Also 33 years past homosexual decriminalisation is not ‘recent’. Everyone has shit to deal with in their lives and snowflakes playing victim deserve nothing but derision.
      
      My ancestors also had their land stolen and confiscated 200 years back. What of it? What do the injustices done to my ancestors long since dead have to do with anything in the here-and-now? ‘Reparations’ for such things are just new theft perpetrated on the innocent for the benefit of the undeserving. Hell, most of those grasping for dollars are descendants of both sides of the injustice. It’s fucking nuts by any rational assessment.
      
      And Disenfranchisement? Pre-NZ Maori never had the fucking franchise in the first place. They were dominated intra and inter-tribally by thugs, murderers and tyrants, and they gained the franchise in the 1860’s, long before women and non-land-owning immigrants did.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:48am
      - Batman
        
        You need to get out in the community and talk to some of the organisations dealing with this stuff. It’s still a hard road for people coming out as gay etc.
        
        Especially for teens in an environment of social media and cyber bullying.
        
        There are idiots everywhere who get a couple of drinks on board and assume that anyone who dresses nicely and speaks nicely must be gay, and also probably trying to touch their junk. Ergo, they must try and punch that person before that happens.
        
        It has happened to me, and needless to day, my girlfriend at the time couldn’t decide whether she was amused or offended.
        
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        June 27, 2019 12:21pm
    - Liberty
      
      “Gay people are in fact persecuted”
      What a load of twaddle.
      In the 1950s you would have had a point.
      2019 Society has moved on.
      It’s time Gays stopped playing the victim card.
      
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      June 27, 2019 11:07am
      - Batman
        
        Clearly you have no idea what life is like for gay people today.
        
        People still dish out looks and disapproving noises. A small group to be fair, but it still happens. Luckily, those people will all die out soon enough.
        
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        June 27, 2019 12:06pm
    - MH
      
      you are referring to the term “gay abandon” which is not permitted under Green’s training manual.
      
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      June 27, 2019 11:36am
    - igm
      
      Gay people choose to be different . . . we are born either male or female . . . end of story.
      Show me a queer pig, horse, dog, cat . . . you cannot!
      
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      June 27, 2019 2:38pm
      - rockape
        
        My Labrador! However I get odd looks from people as well being 72 and married to a attractive blonde 27 years my junior.
        
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        June 27, 2019 6:42pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Shit rocky.. a win is a win. 😉
        
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        June 27, 2019 9:07pm
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Im no lawyer but I am sure an employer cant contract out of an existing law so even if the employee signs they are not bound by it.
    
    I dont support what Folau said but support his right to say and IMHO the Bill of Rights protects him and the AR will be laughed out of Court and Folau awarded damaged and costs.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:47am
    - alloytoo
      
      I think it’s a little more nuanced than saying you can’t contract out of free speech.
      
      Confidentiality contracts are precisely that, an agreement to restrict one’s speech on a particular subject in exchange for a consideration.
      
      If one breaks such an agreement then there is normally a forfeit of consideration and potentially a penalty (and a reputation shot to tatters).
      
      The real question is whether the Rugby Australia contract and code of conduct bundled together can prove that Folau’s actions constituted a breech of contract (and hence faith). Noting that he entered into the contract willingly.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:18am
- Inandout
  
  We shall now find out what vehicle he drives so we can boycott the maker, and then those items he has in his home.
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:49am
  - Tall Man
    
    Does he have a telly”…
    
    That would absoluuddly stuff ardern the numbnuts day…
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:11pm
- The King
  
  Committing heresy against the religion of homosexuality.
  
  BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:55am
  - MH
    
    burning would be contrary to Green’s environmental policy. Chemical castration is off the table as well. tickling to death is OK.
    
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    June 27, 2019 11:34am
Happychappy

Winston Peter’s urges caution over allegations of Iran’s responsibility for the Oil Tanker attacks, this from a MP that has used his whole career making false allegations on others.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/allegations-one-thing-winston-peters-urges-caution-over-blame-oil-tanker-attacks
A bit rich coming from someone that still has case’s in court that he can’t prove.
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June 27, 2019 8:09am
- Colville
  
  Winstons opinion will depend on which sponsor of WinstonFirst has a vested interest in that area that needs protecting.
  Winston is a mouth for hire.
  Talleys dont fish over there do they?
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:24am
  - sooty
    
    They buy pretty horses!
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:10am
- SGA
  
  Perhaps Peters is old enough to remember the Gulf of Tonkin incidents, and has seen “The Fog of War”?
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:25am
  - sooty
    
    There is a reason he wears elastic sided shoes!
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:11am
  - Bottomless_Pit
    
    The fog of Single Malt more likely
    
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    June 27, 2019 8:14pm
  - Tall Man
    
    He wouldn’t remember anyway.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:13pm
- kowtow
  
  Whatever about the oil tankers I don’t get how very little attention is given by the media ( ours obsess about a foreign footie players’ tweets) to this most unsavoury behaviour by a major state in world affairs.
  
  ‘The US and Germany have condemned Iran after its foreign minister defended the policy of execution for homosexuality. The issue erupted after a pointed question from a German reporter.’
  
  https://www.dw.com/en/iran-defends-execution-of-gay-people/a-49144899
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:33am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Thank you, Kow Tow, for bringing that link to our attention. This is a side of the religion of peace that I find totally unacceptable. I am surprised that the homosexual community do not bring this sort of sordid repression of their ilk to the attention of New Zealanders.
    
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    June 27, 2019 10:17am
  - Tall Man
    
    And yet calling her g—y is a crime.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:15pm
- projectman
  
  And does he/NZ First still have some $$ to pay back?
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:53am
  - Tall Man
    
    After they have dropped immigration to 10,000……
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:17pm
- Tricati
  
  The man’s an arse – Heard him on the radio saying we need a referendum on the euthanasia bill as not appropriate for parliamentarians to decide such a critical issue, along with all his usual bluster, (Gutless) – yet they can the Oil & Gas industry without blinking an eye
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:00am
  - igm
    
    That was the unelected unwanted PM’s so-called captain’s call.
    
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    June 27, 2019 11:01am
- dubya
  
  Is he taking orders and backhanders from Tehran now? Wouldn’t surprise me.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:01am
  - Tall Man
    
    “what’s in it for wynston”
    
    You figure it out.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:18pm
- Ed Snack
  
  It is really a bit uncertain. I would place little faith in any Iranian reporting, but at the same time there’s enough doubts around about the truthfulness of the US Intelligence organizations’ to make one pause before definitely believing their version.
  
  On the balance of probabilities I’d be inclined to agree that Iran was responsible, but more proof would be extremely useful.
  
  Certainly odd devices were used, not a lot of actual damage caused but very disruptive. Small above the water magnetically attached mines – but how were they attached in the first place ? Almost certainly not at sea as the ship’s crew would be expected to notice another craft coming alongside close enough to do that. The first lot were possibly similar but placed on the stern of the ships.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:30am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And I see that the UAE doesn’t accept Iranian complicity – yet. The UAE are in the main, anti-Iranian – so this does tend to emphasize the flimsy nature of the “evidence”.
    
    I would hold off full out attribution at this point.
    
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    June 27, 2019 12:58pm
- kevn
  
  @Happy… This type of red herring is just whinneys version of ‘the baby’ stories/pics.
  Just see it for what it is… distraction.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:37am
- srylands
  
  So who is attacking the oil tankers?
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Who knows – most likely explanations I reckon is that either it is the Iranians showing that they can sabotage tankers and possibly close the tanker route, or the US and/or its “allies” doing a bit of provocation and looking for some sort of “cassus belli”. Could well be the Saudi’s drumming up a bit of anti-Iranian sentiment.
    
    A bit similar with the drone shoot-down. US says it was in international airspace, Iranians say it was in their airspace. Who is correct ? The debris field might tell but isn’t certain, and again the locations for that vary according to who is reporting it. That we haven’t had a US report showing the location of that debris and that Trump hasn’t ordered some physical retaliation might suggest that the US was at fault and did (probably but not definitely) by accident intrude into Iranian airspace – as a test or provocation, accidentally, who knows. Then again the Iranians haven’t reported the debris field further either, so at this stage we have insufficient info.
    
    I’d be inclined to believe the US, but not always (WMD, Gulf of Tonkin, and other incidents undermine ones faith just a little)
    
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    June 27, 2019 3:00pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Winston is right on this occasion. The American dollar based on the underpinning of the petrodollar deal with the Sunni Saudi ex Bedouin family does not merit a world war with their Shia enemies.
  There is no real evidence beyond false flag level.
  Was this a hit job by a team from an Israeli submarine?
  Also where is the international right of way over the Hormuz Strait? The Strait is only 30km wide and shared by Oman on one side and Iran on the other. The freedom of the 12 mile limit is not possible there.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:47am
hullkiwi

News yesterday that Greg Murphy, a four times winner of Bathurst claims the Vizion Zero approach to road safety is set to “bamboozle” New Zealanders. His view and that of others (including a former road policing officer) is that the policy will not improve anything. This is because it doesn’t address is driver skill levels or the state of NZ roads. Indeed, Genter has been busy diverting funds from road building, which is a requirement of Vision Zero being successful in Sweden.
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June 27, 2019 8:18am
- SGA
  
  This is because it doesn’t address is driver skill levels
  
  What would address that? In practical terms, what was he proposing?
  (As an aside – a relative just moved to California and was amazed by how easy it was to pass the driving test compared to here).
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:29am
  - srylands
    
    Yes and check out the death and accident rate in California.
    
    For a rich country the USA has a terrible road death and injury performance. They have a very high incidence of “T bone” deaths at cross intersections. If you get hit at even moderate speed sideways, you are pretty f***ed.
    
    One thing I noticed is that roundabouts are very uncommon in the USA – hence lots of cross intersections. While you can have an accident on a round about it is going to be at a relatively low speed.
    
    The standard of driving in New Zealand IS terrible. It needs a mixture of culture and standards changes.
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:43am
    - SGA
      
      It needs a mixture of culture and standards changes.
      
      In practical terms, what would this entail? Genuine question – curious what you think should be done.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:00am
      - srylands
        
        I don’t have all the answers. But here are some ideas:
        
        A system of graduated licences similiar to Victoria. This would require a lot of money to help driving training for lower income young people. Kids from poor families just don’t have the money for driver training. Better public investment than buying guns.
        
        Police to focus on bad behavior – tail gating, right lane hogging, slow erratic driving and aggressive driving. A total police blitz on anti social driving.
        
        Then there is vehicle safety and roads. Too many things here to list. But one issue that gets almost no attention is tyres. Sounds boring but the quality and correct inflation of tryes can do a lot for car safety. Next time you are in a supermarket carpark take a wander and look at the shit tyres people have on their cars, Buy the best tyres you can afford and inflate them correctly. And replace them well before the legal minimum tread depth.
        
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        June 27, 2019 12:08pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    SGA Murphy made the valid point and I agree with him.
    His recommendation is for a regime of re-testing drivers every so often on their driving and their knowledge of the road code. I know in my own case, I’ve had my licence 42 years, the road code changed days before I got my licence in 1977 and changed back to the pre-1977 change a year of two ago and I am not familiar with any other changes. Yet over the years I’ve had to renew my licence a number times.
    
    Am I a safe driver? Who is to say?
    
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    June 27, 2019 9:54am
    - SGA
      
      Knowledge of the road code was not what came first had in mind when you wrote of “driver skill levels”, I confess. In terms of the driving test, if our current testing isn’t measuring “driver skill” adequately, why would testing more often do any good?
      Were those really the sort of things that Murphy (a highly skilled professional race car driver) had in mind, I wonder?
      
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      June 27, 2019 11:23am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      I don’t think testing is the answer at all. People who drive dangerously are not going to do so when the tester is in the car. Nor is the road code the issue. The people causing road deaths are doing things that you don’t generally need road code knowledge to avoid.
      
      This is one of those cases of “we don’t know how to solve it so let’s just regulate the hell out of it and see if that makes any difference”. We should strongly resist that approach.
      
      It probably comes down to basic common sense, a desire to behave responsibly and respect the rights of others. Something you get from your parents if they are doing their job properly. Not something that is easy to test for.
      
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      June 27, 2019 2:35pm
- cmm
  
  Vision Zero is one of those fluffy aspirational goals which achieve nothing.
  
  Zero road deaths sounds wonderful, except impossible to achieve and does not actually provide useful means to reduce deaths.
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:32am
  - Psycho Milt
    
    Any vision statement is a fluffy aspirational goal – it’s a vision statement, not an operational plan.
    
    For example, Ikea’s vision is “Create a better life for the many.” That one’s included in various online lists of great vision statements, but it doesn’t tell us anything about what Ikea does or how it does it, and I can’t see how buying flatpack furniture will make my life better.
    
    The Alzheimer’s Association one is even fluffier and more aspirational: “A world without Alzheimer’s disease.”
    
    It would help to see “Vision Zero” for what it is, rather than what you’d prefer it to have been.
    
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    June 27, 2019 8:58am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Surely someone can program an algorithm to generate these “vision statements.”
      
      For example:
      A _______ without ____________.
      A _______ with ____________.
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:23am
    - hullkiwi
      
      PM, in response to your post, on a daily basis at work, I see Vizion Zero for what it is. A waste of money, in our office we have a Vision Zero team producing copious pages of copy from researching studies posted on the internet. This will then be distilled down to a policy of reducing the region’s speed limits, introducing more traffic calming and reducing traffic in urban areas.
      
      Not an aspiration, more a further pursuit of Genter’s dogma, that will continue to cost money and lives.
      
      PM, far be it for me to suggest it, but your post was not much better than one Stephie would have posted. Because your post displayed limited knowledge of the subject matter.
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:25am
      - stephieboy
        
        “Because your post displayed limited knowledge of the subject matter.” ??
        
        And Yours?
        
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        June 27, 2019 9:44am
      - Psycho Milt
        
        The social sciences have a lot to answer for, of which wasting some money on poorly-thought-out road safety policy is one the more trivial ones. The health system is far worse afflicted, and with worse consequences. I don’t think holding Genter personally responsible for it makes much sense.
        
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        June 27, 2019 9:44am
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘traffic calming’
        Is that a euphemism for completely stationary?
        
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        June 27, 2019 9:56am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Stephie. Unlike you I work for a transport authority.
        
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        June 27, 2019 11:11am
      - Tall Man
        
        “Stephie. Unlike you I work”
        
        Fixed 😉
        
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        June 27, 2019 9:24pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Psycho, that sort of “fluffy” light statement though does appear to be crafted for snappy soundbites rather than as a useful way to promote safety improvements. Political crap in other words.
      
      It does give the strong impression that the politicians involved are primarily interested in being seen to be promoting “something” rather than getting down to the harder work of actually doing something.
      
      It would be my opinion, having driven in a number of countries, that the biggest safety related difference in NZ is the relatively poor quality of the roads and their general unsuitability for heavy use by motor vehicles. The biggest safety boost would come from more divided carriageways and ways to enable smooth traffic flows. This however is not a cheap option
      
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      June 27, 2019 9:36am
      - stephieboy
        
        “..that sort of “fluffy” light statement ..” ??
        
        Like catching up with Oz by 2025?
        
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        June 27, 2019 9:45am
    - cmm
      
      It is a false strawman to use Ikea or Alzheimer Association. They are not part of the government.
      
      So basically, as you say, Vision Zero is just meaningless words that sound cool but achieve nothing.
      
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      June 27, 2019 10:09am
  - herb1
    
    Vision zero? What an appropriate name to describe policies from this Government .
    
    Any policy coming out can simply be describes as Zero Vision 1 , 2 and so on
    
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    June 27, 2019 10:31am
- bouden
  
  …. doesn’t address driver skills … It this really the issue ?? Nowhere do I see experts addressing drivers’ attitudes. Again and again I experience drivers speeding up when approaching a round-about to try and beat the other car. Bullying past at >100k as a passing lane is about to end, forcing the lead driver to brake and often oncoming traffic to veer towards the broken road shoulder. I have two vehicles, one a ‘nana’ car and one a large station wagon. Repeatedly, going the same route and driving in the same fashion, larger vehicles (usually tradie utes) will bully the “nana” at intersections and tail-gate.
  Driving skills are obviously important as is the state of the vehicle and the state of the road – but the big missing remedial need is driver attitude.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:26am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I noticed an interesting phenomena recently when driving around the Nelson/Buller/Malborough area.
    
    In that area, the roads are often quite winding (Buller gorge !) and there’s a reasonable amount of traffic and a very noticeable proportion of that is tourists in Camper Vans of varying sizes. With exceptions, all the camper vans are slow especially around corners and up hills, and there are not a lot of passing areas.
    
    However, what is present al very regaular intervals is a series of signs prominently displayed that say “Holding up traffic ? Move over and let them past…” or words to that effect. There are a number of places where it is easy to pull over to let people through – and it worked remarkably well. I was able to travel very comfortably and maintain a reasonable pace, and when I did get behind a camper van or two (or three) I could reliably expect them to find a place to pull over and let me through. It was a much improved experience compared to the normal one and in my brief experience calmed the traffic as people made very few wild passing attempts because they could be reasonably sure of getting passed as soon as it was feasible.
    
    I would certainly be in favour of extending this campaign of signposting the need to let people passed when feasible much more widely. It should also be extended to motorways where the message could be “Keep Left unless passing” would encourage better traffic behaviour.
    
    By reducing frustrations this does “calm” the traffic and lead to safer roads. It might not work quite so well where the slow traffic is basically locals (who often have the apparent attitude “I’m allowed to do this because I live here”) rather than tourists, but I very much doubt it would hurt and every bit of help we can get is useful.
    
    It does though rather go against today’s tendency to direct and require rather than encourage and rely on people’s better nature.
    
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    June 27, 2019 5:16pm
- MCos
  
  Road safety is one of those things where everyone is an expert
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:26am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Slight correction, everybody is an expert, but everybody else is a bad driver.
    
    Very much akin to everybody knows and has an opinion about transport, because it is personal. However, very few actually know what they are taking about (and does include Genter Twyford and Jones).
    
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    June 27, 2019 11:16am
- Bottomless_Pit
  
  Murphy was a talented and successful race driver, no doubt. But that in no way qualifies him to be an expert when it comes to driving on the road. The 2 are completely different to the point where the skills he has at irrelevant
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:22pm
alloytoo

Interesting meme’s developing on Newstalk ZB

I haven’t heard the “9 years of neglect” meme from any commentators lately (except ministers), but increasingly I’m hearing about “Wasted their time in opposition” and “Lack of talent.”

I guess it’s hard to argue against the increasingly poor economic indicators.

Thoughts?
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June 27, 2019 8:20am
Maggie Pie

My partner was saying he well remembers the shyte that went down between WOBH and Kim Dotcom when KFC formed the ‘Internet Party’.
However these days, they both appear to be singing from the same song book 🙂
https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1143654842293821440
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June 27, 2019 8:23am
slightlyrighty

I saw a post from a left leaning person from the UK complaining that their new PM is to be chosen by 0.19% of the population, and that this process is not very democratic.

Our PM was chosen by 0.000002% of our population (Winston Peters), and I bet they didn’t complain about that!
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June 27, 2019 8:26am
- hullkiwi
  
  That is rich. Now let me remember, how did Gordon Brown become PM in 2007.
  Blair resigned and Brown was anointed leader, there wasn’t even a vote amongst the Labour MPs at the time!
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:28am
- mandk
  
  That lefty is obviously too ignorant to know that electors do not vote for PMs.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:36am
- MCos
  
  It’s the nature of the governance systems of both jurisdictions that the PM is not chosen by the voters
  The voters vote for a party or a local representative. After that it’s out of their hands.
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:53am
Paulus

I see that boy Hipkins has decided to bring in new legislation to control the Public Service.
I suspect that Cinderella led and others feel that they need to gain the control of them and merge them to enable the Ministers to have the under political control and oversight, as a result they will cease to be so called subject to the Ministers powers as they fell, and to become an integral part of the Minister’s specific and employment favoured responsibility.
The State Services will of course cease as they will have nothing to do all being done by the Ministers.
Could this now be introduced to cover the fact that this Minister has made and is still making a mess of his Education Portfolio – which still has a long way to go – Secondary Teachers are still voting and could be buoyed by the Primary Principals’ saying get lost.
Obfuscation is the word Hipkins.
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June 27, 2019 8:29am
hullkiwi

Question for someone, when is this government going to walk the talk?

Sometime ago, Hipkins said he was going to replace the Decile system of school funding, good ! It is an inequituous system that is not fit for purpose, but no alternative has been forthcoming.

Then less than a month ago we had the well being budget, that wasn’t.

I raise these points because our son attends a Decile 9 school at which children are coming to school hungry and the school are putting out messages of help with feeding these children.

How is this? Well the decile ranking is misleading, Ahuroa Primary is a rural school and within its boundaries is the settle of Puhoi, some farmers and a few others with 6 figure income households, but so what? The children of these families do not necessarily attend the school, they instead attend schools to the south. That leaves Ahuroa taking children from a variety of socio economic backgrounds, including NZ’s including those at the low end of life’s economic ladder. Now given the school has a small roll (circa 70 kids) and is decile 9, it does not receive extra funds to feed the children of the poor. So, my question is, after all the hype, where is the well being of this government to the poor who send their children to schools that are already impoverished by discriminatory funding regime?
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June 27, 2019 8:45am
- GazzaW
  
  A similar anomaly applies to integrated schools. Our local Catholic primary school is located in a decile 10 zone and accordingly receives minimal funding from the state. Catholic schools are not formally zoned and the local school has many pupils bussing in from low decile areas but no additional funding to support them.
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:32am
Yvette

Pike River
In a statement on Wednesday evening, Dunbar and Monk said they first asked for the SCADA data [an electronic record of everything happening at the mine] on November 15 last year. On March 11 this year, police said it did not exist beyond November 19, 2010 [day of the first explosion].
Police had since said they had three months of data up to December 2 [1]

The fourth explosion occurred just before 2 pm on 28 November 2010 [2]
So the police actually have SCADA data to four days (December 2) after the fourth explosion

However, when he and Dunbar informed police about 5pm on Wednesday that Newshub would be running a story an hour later on their SCADA-data findings, police then said they were now analysing the data for the period between the two explosions. [1]

So Dunbar and Monk asked about SCADA data on November 15 last year, the police responded – after about 116 days – March 11 this year, and yesterday evening said “they were now analysing the data for the period between the two explosions.”

“It’s beggars belief the Police never looked at Scada beyond the first blast,” he said.
“Scada could prove what caused the second explosion, just as it provided strong clues to the cause of the first explosion in the Department of Labour report.[3]
– electrical expert Richard Healey

Was that Department of Labour Report before, during or after the Pike River Royal Commission?

If the Police are now analysing the data, does that mean it was not available to the Pike River Royal Commission?

[1] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113806765/pike-river-advocates-have-black-box-data-police-say-was-never-saved [2] Wikipedia
[3] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12244241
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June 27, 2019 8:54am
- G152
  
  Protecting their mates ?????
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:46am
- Yvette
  
  Further –
  [The head of the Pike investigation, Detective Superintendent Peter Read] initially denied having any SCADA beyond the first blast, but after the Pike River Recovery Agency said police had SCADA up to the second explosion and considerably more, Read confirmed they actually have data from before the first blast until after the second.
  He said the server it was saved onto was obsolete, so they had problems accessing it.
  
  Read has now found a forensic analyst who will begin accessing the data this week, which is good because experts have told Newshub that in mine disasters around the world the first thing investigators do is obtain all the Scada.
  
  “The best analogy you could make of SCADA is it is exactly the same as a black box in an aircraft,” electrical expert Richard Healey says. SCADA monitors all the cameras, the communications, the pumping stations, the gas and fluid levels and the electrics. It holds all the clues to what causes mine explosions. [1]
  
  So if some data is only being deciphered now –
  Does it contain clues to the causes everyone seeks?
  Was it not available to the Royal Commission?
  May its contents directly inform the safety of those currently re-entering the drift?
  Who is ‘responsible’ for these oversights?
  
  [1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/06/police-admit-not-looking-at-pike-river-black-box-after-first-explosion.html
  
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  June 27, 2019 12:31pm
EuropeanCanon

The End of Life debate was very interesting, lots of stories that make me think it is a very hard area to make a decision in. I can appreciate that no one wants to see people needlessly suffer once there is no hope of recovery. Personally though, I worry about the state having this kind of power, and the law of unintended consequences where we have young people committing suicide because they are “depressed” – plenty of this happening in countries where legal killing is allowed. The debate in favour of it tends to be appeals to emotion rather than logic, something that cuts no ice with me.
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June 27, 2019 8:59am
freethinker

Listening to AM reporting that Police have the Pike River Black Box and the thought of why they have denied possession – Incompetence/Corruption/Cover up, I recall Gary Lowndes the Po lice in charge was moved to ChCh, always wondered why he prevented the real experts on mining access shortly after the explosion now I think I know – all the above and now there will be an attempted cover up – stinks.
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June 27, 2019 8:59am
- gravedodger
  
  Try Gary Knowles as Police commander.
  His involvement came from Crats above him, sad the shite he has had heaped on him for doing his duty under orders.
  Quite a good bugger by the way if you knew him.
  
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  June 27, 2019 11:37am
Maggie Pie

Ive realized that Google isn’t just a search engine. It’s also an educator.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D97CO8PWsAUU5ov?format=jpg&name=900×900
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June 27, 2019 8:59am
- dubya
  
  I think they’ve put Titania McGrath in charge for the day.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:14am
- Ed Snack
  
  Don’t try to “report” any of the replies as inappropriate if they meet the current idiocracy defined standard – I see your result has “men can get pregnant” which should be answered as “No, no they can’t”.
  
  It’s like the way they censor suggestions as per my comment a couple of days ago about Hillary Clinton’s emails – you get zero suggestions and if you start with the name you get only positive suggestions. Put in Trump’s name and you get essentially only negative ones. Past time to investigate Google for political bias and to remove their protection from being sued.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:49am
lastmanstanding

Im waiting with breathless anticipation for Cindys Cabinet reshuffle.

IM sure its going to mean the governance of the country is in sound hands that will be prosperity to all.
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June 27, 2019 9:13am
- cmm
  
  Shuffling, sleight of hand and some misdirection – sounds like a magician’s card trick!
  
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  June 27, 2019 11:02am
- Tall Man
  
  Especially if she finally admits she’s a shit load of sandwiches short of a picnic and appoints a few from the National party.
  
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  June 27, 2019 12:11pm
- Rich Prick
  
  No matter how she shuffles it, she still holds a dud hand.
  
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  June 27, 2019 12:12pm
lastmanstanding

I was reflecting on DPFs post on that POS Tainui yesterday.
You see as an employer if I cause the death of one of my employees by my negligence even if accidental I can go to prison and or be fined a significant sum.

Yet those in Government Agencies including the Courts are exempt.

This is yet another case of two faced dont do as I do do as I say from the politicians and the Judiciary.

They are not held to account therefore they have no need to exercise the same care an attention I do as an employee.
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June 27, 2019 9:20am
- kowtow
  
  The rule of law has gone , we are ruled by law.
  
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  June 27, 2019 11:10am
UrbanNeocolonialist

More big tech moves against conservatives. Reddit has ‘quarantined’ “The Donald” forum – subscribed to by about 700,000 Trump supporters, effectively trying to strangle it.

I suspect that this in combination with moves against other conservative sites/groups in recent weeks is likely to bring things to a head politically with regard to big-tech left wing political agendas and partisan censorship (as laid out by Project Veritas release this week).
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June 27, 2019 9:22am
- stephieboy
  
  UN,
  
  Reddit quarantines Trump subreddit r/The_Donald for violent comments
  
  “Reddit has placed the controversial Donald Trump-focused subreddit r/The_Donald behind a quarantine screen after “repeated” misbehavior that includes inciting violence. A moderator posted an explanatory message from Reddit, which has asked moderators to make it clear that “violent content is unacceptable” on the forum. The move comes two days after Media Matters for America noted that r/The_Donald members were supporting violent attacks on Oregon police and other public officials…”
  
  https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759967/reddit-quarantines-the-donald-trump-subreddit-misbehavior-violence-police-oregon
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:53am
  - All_on_Red
    
    As usual you lie by omission when you fail to point out any untoward comments were being instantly removed by The Donald administrators.
    
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    June 27, 2019 10:48am
    - stephieboy
      
      As usual, you ignore your master’s commands,
      
      Trump Encourages Violence From His Supporters. They’re Listening.
      
      “President Donald Trump riles up his base with veiled threats of violence. His followers at rallies and protests can’t help but latch on…”
      
      https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-encourages-violence-from-his-supporters-theyre-listening_n_5c8bb977e4b0db7da9f29e07
      
      Snigger.
      
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      June 27, 2019 11:10am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh come on Stephie. Trying to spin a phrase as enciting violence?
        Well, it is HuffPo, and you…
        Violence against Trump supporters is on going.
        There’s plenty of evidence of them being harassed and attacked- often just for wearing a hat ffs.
        Just yesterday Eric Trump got assaulted in a restaurant.
        There’s very little evidence of the other way around.
        
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        June 27, 2019 1:24pm
    - Batman
      
      Here is what the message delivered to moderators of that group says:
      
      “Over the last few months we have observed repeated rule-breaking behavior in your community and an over-reliance on Reddit admins to manage users and remove posts that violate our content policy, including content that encourages or incites violence. Most recently, we have observed this behavior in the form of encouragement of violence towards police officers and public officials in Oregon. This is not only in violation of our site-wide policies, but also your own community rules (rule #9). You can find violating content that we removed in your mod logs.
      
      “As we have discussed in the past, and as detailed in our content policy and moderator guidelines, we expect you to enforce against rule-breaking content. You’ve made progress over the last year, but we continue to observe and take action on a disproportionate amount of rule-breaking behavior in this community. We recognize that you do remove posts that are reported, but we are troubled that violent content more often goes unreported, and worse, is upvoted.”
      
      So there’s a fair bit of history here which needs to be acknowledged by both of you.
      
      The moderators have tried to clean up some of the worst material posted but clearly it’s a bigger job than they can handle.
      
      The most telling part is that content promoting violence is upvoted by people who either don’t think before they click and are getting themselves all riled up, or by people who are genuinely a danger to others if they believe violence is necessary or acceptable.
      
      That Reddit group is a weird as hell sewer, it’s basically a more loose version of the loons at The Standard.
      
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      June 27, 2019 12:34pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Fair enough then
        
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        June 27, 2019 1:19pm
      - Batman
        
        Oh and I would also say that while it has been “quarantined” it’s not closed or banned. It’s behind a “warning, potentially bad content. Click here is you are comfortable seeing it” warning thing.
        
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        June 27, 2019 2:43pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        There is a thread by the moderators of that sub-reddit, and that claims they were doing fine and not having any trouble. There’s also the suggestion that almost all of the violent suggestions come from provocateurs who infest some of the threads.
        
        The Admin’s though made the move with no reference to the mods.
        
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        June 27, 2019 5:21pm
lastmanstanding

I see Stats has released some info from last years census (if it can be believed given the stuff up).

Bisexuals 2% of the population.

Gays 1.1% of the population.

Now I was thinking about the Parliament and how its supposed to be representative of the people and when its not in some area some people go banging on about this and how its has to be fixed.

So a random question.

Does the Parliament reflect the Stats and above and if not then action must be taken to correct the situation over or under.

And your thoughts?
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June 27, 2019 9:28am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Gay people tend to be over-represented in elite institutions, as they are less likely to have their careers nobbled by time demands of raising children.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:40am
- mandk
  
  It was actually the General Social Survey 2018, not the Census of Population and Dwellings 2018.
  
  But never mind. A more important question is why Statistics NZ needs to collect this information.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:45am
  - Tall Man
    
    Unisex toilet?
    
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    June 27, 2019 12:08pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  We need Trisexual …. Try anything…. I am really over this representation of every minority or quirk or noisy oddball group. How about the best person for the job? Politicians are there to represent an electorate and enable the passing of legislation. When compulsory fucking becomes part of their job, I’ll worry about their sexual orientation.
  
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  June 27, 2019 9:49am
- freethinker
  
  Parliament is well over represented in the various varieties of Queeeres so time to recalibrate and terminate to achieve a balance that represents NZ.
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:40am
- Fletch
  
  Links –
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/new-sexual-identity-wellbeing-data-reflects-diversity-of-new-zealanders
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:50am
Happychappy

You would wonder why Phil Twyford never showed up to Jacinda’s reshuffle of Cabinet position’s this morning was it arrogance or was he requested to stay away.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/phil-twyford-a-no-show-at-prime-minister-s-cabinet-reshuffle-meeting.html
Interesting press conference later to Day on the cards or will it be another back down on what should happen.
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June 27, 2019 9:33am
- alex Masterley
  
  He is probably hiding behind a pillar somewhere.
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:41am
  - cmm
    
    100,000 pillars!
    
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    June 27, 2019 11:04am
  - sooty
    
    That’s an easy question to answer,
    He’s been told allready, he’s got the arse card!
    edit
    Will he be in the house today?
    
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    June 27, 2019 11:04am
stephieboy

Simon and fellow travellers,

Breaking news,

Budget breach report: Treasury head ‘clumsy’ and unreasonable

Outgoing Treasury secretary Gabriel Makhlouf was “clumsy”, unreasonable and fell “well short” of expectations in his handling of the Budget data breach, a government report has found.

In the days before the Budget, Mr Makhlouf claimed the Treasury website had been deliberately and systematically hacked.

It was later revealed the National Party had used the website’s search bar to obtain information from the Budget.

The Commission’s report – ordered by the government – says Mr Makhlouf did not act reasonably in his use of the word “hack” or his explanations to media.

The report notes Mr Makhlouf acted in good faith when he notified the Minister of Finance and police.

But Commissioner Peter Hughes said Mr Makhlouf should have publicly taken responsibility for the failure and his actions fell well short of his expectations.

Mr Makhlouf is finishing up at Treasury this week to take up the role of governor of the Central Bank of Ireland.

His replacement was announced this week as Australian economist Dr Caralee McLiesh, a former deputy secretary of the New South Wales Treasury.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/393048/budget-breach-report-treasury-head-clumsy-and-unreasonable

Tsk, tsk, tsk…!
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June 27, 2019 10:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  In other news, it is being reported that Wattyl Paint Centre in Thorndon Quay has had a run on whitewash over the last few days.
  
  National must ask for an Urgent Debate on the release of the Makhlouf Report today. Parliament rises later this afternoon for a three week recess, and Mallard would, IMHO, find it very hard to justify turning down an application for an Urgent Debate, given that the next time Parliament can scrutinise this is Tuesday 23rd July. And let’s not forget that the SSC had no mandate to investigate the roles Ministers played in the Treasury “hack”.
  
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  June 27, 2019 10:37am
- Tall Man
  
  So what you mean is that robertson and ardern are both liars about National hacking……
  
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  June 27, 2019 6:04pm
bouden

I wonder why Boris Johnson’s explanation that he makes and paints model buses to relax, is somehow weird ? That media and poppy-slashers don’t believe his explanation, and that there must be something untoward they can sling mud at. Buses ain’t my thing but I did have a go at ships at one time … and I always had a hankering for a kick-arse train set.
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June 27, 2019 10:56am
- Batman
  
  I dabbled but found the kit required for glueing, painting and prep etc was too much hassle.
  
  I stick to adult Lego now ?
  
  While buses are a bit odd, it is a totally believable hobby. I think the left and some media in the UK just feel confused given they have painted Johnson as a Trump like figure, and I don’t think anyone can imagine Trump spending a couple of hours working on a model vehicle lol
  
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  June 27, 2019 12:15pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Trump ‘working on a model’ conjurs up unpleasant mental images. I don’t want to google that. As for him ‘spending a couple of hours’, working on the model, or anything else, I find that hard to believe.
    
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    June 27, 2019 1:23pm
Jack5

Anyone interested in old-style news reporting, before the Lefties and the ladies took, over might like this article about one of the great old tabloid reporters – Steve Dunleavy.

The second link is to the NY Times report. It contains this:

After the actress Ava Gardner rejected his [Dunleavy’s] invitation to be interviewed at a nightclub and threw a glass of champagne in his face, he wrote an article that began: “Last night, I shared a glass of champagne with Ava Gardner. She threw it; I wore it.”

https://nypost.com/2019/06/25/steve-dunleavy-taught-us-how-to-do-news-right/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/business/steve-dunleavy-dead.html
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June 27, 2019 11:21am
Jack5

A full-on mutlicultural dose today for the fewer than half (compared with a decade ago) of the paid subscribers of the Christchurch Press, though the remaining readers aren’t fully won over.

We have the anti-Western, Donna Miles-Mojab (born in the UK to Iranian parents) reporting on London with an unsurprising plug for multiculturism, and in the letters to the editor, one “Rajiv Thind”, writing from Brisbane says:

”I love Christchurch and Canterbury and I want our rugby team to shed this disgraceful symbolism and name.”

The letter calls on corporate sponsors of the rugby team to force a change.

Surely, a phony letter. “Our team …” from an Indian in Brisbane? Mmm.

The Christchurch Press has constantly gone against Crusader fan wishes and argued for a name change. It even harped on after the rugby authorities’ decision to keep the name, at least for the present.

However, remaining readers of the Press are already starting to kick up about a suggestion for a build a big memorial park to mark the mosques massacres.

“Not in our local park,” seems to be the theme, and expressing worry that will be a further addition to rates already cruelly raised by the city’s spendaholic, Leftist council.
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June 27, 2019 1:00pm
- The King
  
  I love reading the history on the crusades..
  
  Count Emicho
  Walter the Penniless
  Ekkehard of Aura
  Adhemar de Monteil, Bishop of Le Puy and papal legate
  William-Jordan, Count of Cerdagne and Berga
  Gaston IV of Béarn
  Centule II of Bigorre
  Girard Guinard, Count of Roussillon
  Aicard, Archbishop of Arles
  Hugh VI of Lusignan
  Berenguer Ramon II, Count of Barcelona
  Peter Bartholomew**Raymond of Aguilers
  Raimbaut, count of Orange
  Roman of Le Puy
  William V of Montpellier
  Robert II, Count of Flanders
  Geoffrey II Jordan, Count of Vendôme
  Héribrand II of Hierges
  Stephen II, Count of Blois
  Hugh of Vermandois
  Enguerrand I, Lord of Coucy
  Thomas, Lord of Coucy
  Guglielmo Embriaco
  Guy II of Montlhéry
  Alan IV, Duke of Brittany
  
  Great European heroes of the past, it’s called culture, and no other culture is a as rich and vibrant and has as many heroes as Europeans.
  
  Prove me wrong. Go ahead name 20 “Maori heroes”, who saved their people from obliteration.
  
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  June 27, 2019 8:23pm
Jack5

Meanwhile, in the Deep, deep cold South, they’re putting the heat on Tim Shadbolt:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113765210/sir-tim-shadbolt-struggles-to-follow-whats-happening-at-council-meetings-councillor-critics-say
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June 27, 2019 1:07pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Is he a heavy user of cannabis? Destroys short term memory
  
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  June 27, 2019 2:56pm
- MCos
  
  From the article
  “the 72-year-old mayor appeared confused, went off on tangents during the meetings”
  He’s not confused.
  Going off at a tangent is characteristic of people of his age who have plenty of time when others don’t.
  
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  June 27, 2019 3:05pm
  - sooty
    
    Whinney is the same age and he does it all of the time! No one is complaining about him!!!
    
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    June 27, 2019 3:52pm
Inandout

Jones throwing money around like Pablo Escobar, love it Mr Goldsmith.
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June 27, 2019 1:12pm
MCos

Interesting srory from Florida.
A woman took out a restraining order against her agressive ex husband who was detained by the authorities for a day.
While he was out of the way, fearing for her life, she went to his abode and uplifted his gun collection, which she handed in to the police.
She was promptly arrested for theft and incarcerated.
As one can imagine she has her sympathisers plus there are those who want the book thrown at her, reasoning that her ex husband’s rights to retain ownership of his guns outweigh the potential for him to use them against her.
https://apnews.com/9c1f0c32a4bf44278aadcb0175aa8a0c
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June 27, 2019 2:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  1. The woman is not the local law enforcement.
  2. ‘The right to bear arms shall not be infringed’ even by your ex wife
  
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  June 27, 2019 3:15pm
- All_on_Red
  
  If she had a restraining order against him for Domestic abuse, then she should have just waited for the authorities to seize them
  ‘Surrender of firearms is mandatory in domestic violence injunction cases; however, the court may order surrender of firearms in repeat, sexual, or dating violence injunction cases where the issue was presented or discussed during the hearing. Blaylock v. Zeller, 932 So. 2d 479 (Fla. 5th DCA 1996).’
  
  That’s the Law in Florida- and many other States.
  Good Law too.
  
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  June 27, 2019 4:18pm
  - Tall Man
    
    A US cop on a motorcycle forum I belong to had his wife accuse him of domestic violence as part of her custody claim.
    
    Although unsubstantiated his firearms license was immediately revoked for 90 days and then he would have to appear in front of a judge.
    
    It suited him because he was unable to carry his service weapon and so had a 90 day break on “office duties”.
    
    Although the US is supposed to be a land of nutjob gun toting weirdos, I think they take their right to bear arms very seriously.
    
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    June 27, 2019 4:51pm
    - stephieboy
      
      ” I think they take their right to bear arms very seriously.”
      
      Too seriously!
      
      https://www.pressreader.com
      
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      June 27, 2019 5:58pm
Tauhei Notts

Any Beancounters here?
If so, please give me a hand.
I am working my way through the annual report of Ryman Healthcare Ltd. The company has a market capitalisation of $5,500m. It has been going for many years. But it does not pay any New Zealand income tax on its $329m profit for the year. This has a pungent aroma around it.
Ryman’s accounting staff will pontificate about accounting jiggery pokery, but when you point out to them that the Company’s Imputation Credit Account for the year actually dropped by $20m, even though NO imputation credits were attached to dividends; they will lapse into incomprehensible jargon.
How on earth can a company that makes no donations to any political party (see page 94 Note 1 of the annual report) get away with this chicanery.
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June 27, 2019 2:41pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  If you go to page 96 of the AR you will see the Tax Note. Most of their income is tax free from Deferred Management Fees the 30% they cream off the residents when they pop their clogs. They also get the inflation in reselling the units tax free.
  
  So they have a $73M tax loss to carry forward and this can be offset against taxable revenue less tax deductible expenses.
  
  So they have a few years yet of tax free.
  
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  June 27, 2019 3:46pm
Swifty

As a fifth-generation descendant of colonisers I take full responsibility for this tragic event….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12244371

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=110500546717696&set=a.102413384193079&type=3&theater

Free Jahcey!
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June 27, 2019 7:57pm
Jack5

Maori are pushing for slice of radio wave spectrum for 5G.

How can anyone but a national government claim rights to radio waves? Especially not an indigenous people who didn’t have writing, or even the wheel, before Western colonisation.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=12244600
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June 27, 2019 9:20pm

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