General Debate 26 June 2019

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krazykiwi

The collective noun for a group of collective noun enthusiasts is an accord. This week an accord gathered in Wellington for the 8th national collective noun determination session. The session involved lobbying and debate over the determination of collective nouns to be applied to a range of groups.

It was exciting stuff, and yours truly was privileged to be involved. Some of 2019’s more significant determinations were:

♦ A colon of politicians. The committee felt this noun embodied the essence of a group of politicians. Not only does the grammatical essence of the word give effect to a something half complete, but also the word’s anatomical meaning suggests a body filled with a foreboding substance, one we readily associate with politicians.

♦ A meltdown of snowflakes. This noun was quickly settled on, however the committee felt the need to define snowflake with a little more clarity. For the purpose of this noun, a snowflake is – steady yourself – any person who runs crying from the suggestion that someone may have thought something that someone else may have considered unacceptable.

♦ A flatulence of NZ First Supporters. This noun suggests an invisible, odious and rapidly dispersing element, one quickly lost to memory. The committee felt this noun fitted perfectly.

♦ A stupor of Green politicians. This was a hotly debated noun, but on balance stupor was seen to give meaning to this group despite any lame attempt at rational logic, and irrespective of any level of drug-induced impairment.

The committee also nominated three collective nouns to be submitted to the plenary session of the Accord World Congress to be held next month in a pub near Hartlepool, UK. The nominations where:

♦ A vacuum of climate emergency declarers. The committee felt the association of lots of noise with absolutely no substance made vacuum a logical choice.

♦ A premier of climate change specialists. The committee reflected on the tendency for these holy-than-thou people to regularly jet first-class to exotic resorts, and considers premier to be a suitable candidate collective noun.

♦ A pounding of Trump haters. While the committee expects this category to be hotly contested, the New Zealand submission contends that pounding makes perfect sense given the repetitious, and moan-filling diatribes that are now commonplace for this group.
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June 26, 2019 8:00am
- mandk
  
  I think a better collective noun for Trump-haters would be a frothing.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:27am
  - NewInoffensiveName
    
    I propose a reeeeeee-ing.
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:51am
    - fernglas
      
      And for his supporters, a fanfare of Trumpists
      
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      June 26, 2019 9:19am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Apoplexy
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:28am
- Than
  
  Not bad. Can I suggest another one…
  
  A blindness of Trump supporters. This term reflects the willful blindness of Trump supporters to his constant blatant lies, and their eagerness to ignore facts, reality, and even the evidence of their own senses when it contradicts the claims of Trump or his spokespeople (the prefered “alternative facts”).
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:04am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Or maybe a Moronicness of anti-Trumpsters, the way they jump on every obviously fake anti-Trump story that any flake comes out with. Then when they relaize that they’ve been had again they just quietly delete their tweets/messages/facebook/etc and hope that no one noticed.
    
    Case in point – E Jean Carroll and her story about how she was raped by Donald trump in the dressing room of a department store in New York. Got her interviews and major TV networks and a numerous stories in the MSM. Then someone noticed that her story was a near exact copy of an story on an episode of the show “Special Victim Unit” – episode 11 season 13, and to cap it off she comes on to the interviewer on CNN and starts talking about how rape is “sexy”….
    
    And the cockroaches in the media and in Twitter and other such places can’t run away fast enough….
    
    Come to think of it, moronic is too anodyne, need to mix in some malicious malevolence, bad faith, and borderline personality defects as well to capture the state of mind of such people.
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:40am
  - All_on_Red
    
    It’s a bit rich Than talking about ‘wilful blindness’
    His ignorance and lies about American politics gets shown up constantly.
    The lack of self awareness about his behaviour would cause most to be embarrassed, but not Than.
    It’s quite sad and pathetic really what that level of TDS does.
    
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    June 26, 2019 1:19pm
- doggone7
  
  A twerk of Act MPs. Well, a twerk of Act MP. (Albeit some mean souls might misspell it with a j for the tw.)
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:25am
- RightNow
  
  Don’t forget Wunch of Bankers
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:39am
- Tall Man
  
  What’s a collection of liars… Coalition.
  
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  June 26, 2019 4:42pm
mjw

From Stuff on ANZ, their annual report stated: “No Director … or immediate family member or professional associate has any dealing with the Banking Group which has been … entered into on terms other than those which would in the ordinary course of business be given to any other person of like circumstances”

So does ANZ make a habit of having off-market transactions way below CV in housing? I rather doubt it. Surely their terms in the ordinary course of business would be for an arms-length sale through a real estate agent.

The banks also internally model all house values to assist in mortgage decisions. I wonder what the internally modelled price was for the Hisco mansion? And whether differences between CV, internal models and valuations raised flags? And if not, why not?

Remember, these banks get huge taxpayer support, both implicitly through the likelihood of taxpayer bailout if needed, and explicitly through Reserve Bank support to rebuild their balance sheets after major crises (at the expense of customers), as occurred after the GFC. The banks must be accountable for their privileged position and all the benefits that go with it – because ultimately, we are paying for it. Why should poor taxpayers support the creation of aristocratic lifestyles based on greed? Nearing $100k annually to heat a swimming pool FFS!
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June 26, 2019 8:00am
- Nookin
  
  Was Hisco a Director? The only reports that I have seen have him as the (now ex) CEO.
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:08am
  - mjw
    
    Yes he was a Director until 17 June 2019 (last week) according to Companies Office records.
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:03am
- peterwn
  
  Mr Hisco was not a director and that proviso applies to directors (such as John Key) only.
  This provision does not preclude staff perks so long as the perk is properly signed off by the Australian or NZ Board as appropriate or by a more senior officer with delegated Board authority. In the case of Mr Hisco one of the Boards or Shane Elliott (CEO of the whole ANZ group) should have properly signed off Mr Hisco’s perks.
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:52am
- hullkiwi
  
  Martin, have you got evidence or are you just repeating slurs?
  
  If, you have the evidence, put up or….go and play in the Standard’s playground.
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:54am
  - peterwn
    
    While mjw got one fact wrong, there is as far as I am concerned sufficient concern that ANZ sold a house to a senior employee’s wife at a very low-ball figure. This defrauds both shareholders and IRD (ie all other taxpayers who pay their taxes).
    Personally I think that IRD should be banging on ANZ’s door over this and other perks that FBT seems not to be paid on.
    
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    June 26, 2019 12:58pm
    - lastmanstanding
      
      You are right. There is a significant FBT liability arising from the sale at less than market value and also GST on the FBT neither of which is tax deductible.
      
      And the irony is Antonio Watson whose acting CEO was a Director of the company that bought the house and then sold it to Hiscos wife.
      
      I would think she and her fellow Directors are in some trouble over this.
      
      Then theres the case they JK didnt front up on the house sale and it was Tim Hunter from NBR who uncovered it.
      
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      June 26, 2019 1:22pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Lastmanstanding, just one correction, it is GST on the Fringe Benefit. You do not pay GST on Fringe Benefit Tax.
        
        If what is being reported is indeed fact, then there are a list of people who have been failing to perform their duty, including:
        1. The banks auditors;
        2. The directors;
        3. The executive and CFO of the bank – who as a chartered accountant has signed off on the transactions;
        4. The accountant employees processing the transactions.
        
        In the case of 3 & 4, both groups are likely to contain people registered as chartered accountants. Aiding and abetting a scheme to defraud shareholders and the IRD is enough for criminal sanctions and to be removed or degregistered as an accountant. So, with so many people who would have known about the transactions, I would hesitate to suggest that the facts are as black and white as speculated upon.
        
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        June 26, 2019 2:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It is common for financial institutions to have staff perks, These are “in the ordinary course of business”.
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    But the perk of trying to provide a tax free benefit for Hisco by selling him the house at a significant discount is, if that is what it was, almost certainly tax evasion. If demonstrated, I for one hope that both the bank and Hisco are severely penalized for that.
    
    By all accounts, Hisco was not worth 1% of what he was paid, which is not uncommon for many highly paid CEO’s. Certainly his actions as revealed and the negative publicity it has generated has impacted the ANZ’s profitability and the board must take some responsibility for that.
    
    But of course they won’t.
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:45am
- Tall Man
  
  “So does ANZ make a habit of having off-market transactions way below CV in housing?”
  
  Gosh, I really don’t know and I really don’t care.
  
  How’s ardern’s reshuffle going? It’s a bit hard when every card in the deck is a “joker”.
  
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  June 26, 2019 12:34pm
andrew davies

Israel Folau claims that those who do not repent spend eternity in a place called hell. Despite this being standard Christian doctrine since forever, he has been subject to an avalanche of hate and the preachers of “tolerance” and “inclusion” have demanded his exclusion. He has lost his job, been denied access to social media platforms and now his wife is under attack.
What I find intriguing is that, despite this extraordinary pile on, to my knowledge he has not once been accused of being wrong. Did he tell the truth or is he a liar? Surely that is the crux of the matter yet none of his detractors seem to want to make that call.
Interesting.
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June 26, 2019 8:00am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Did he tell the truth or is he a liar?’
  
  Neither. He publicly expressed a matter of personal Christian faith . In today’s “progressive, inclusive ” world that is unacceptable to an increasingly intolerant and activist portion of society.
  
  Dangerous times.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:27am
  - igm
    
    Bet if he had done this under the guise of Islam nothing would have been said . . . another left-wing, pro-Islam crock!
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:26am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Truth is irrelevant; disagreement is the crime.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:27am
  - doggone7
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    There have been enough reports about him lying about things to do with his contract and dealings with his employers. Those are okay.
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:49am
    - Evadne
      
      Why do you assume he’s the one lying about his contract / employment?
      
      Could be Rugby Australia misrepresenting things. Could be a genuine misunderstanding / differing interpretation – happens all the time in employment law. Could be legal posturing from both sides, trying to get the upper hand ahead of settlement bargainings.
      
      Could even be the media misrepresenting or sensationalising what was said by either / both parties.
      
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      June 26, 2019 10:00am
    - Tall Man
      
      Reference please?
      
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      June 26, 2019 12:38pm
- Swifty
  
  He’s not telling the truth but I don’t believe he is lying i.e. saying something he knows to be untrue.
  
  He is merely mistaken, as is everyone else who talks about a ‘hell’.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:29am
  - andrew davies
    
    So if he is merely mistaken and there is no “hell”, then how can his comments be offensive?
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:42am
    - Swifty
      
      I’m not offended by anything he’s said.
      
      Why would you think I have been?
      
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      June 26, 2019 9:41am
    - krazykiwi
      
      With apologies to The Talking Heads … stop making sense!
      
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      June 26, 2019 10:12am
  - MickMac
    
    Swifty,
    Well I guess we’ll find out one way or another won’t we?
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:42am
    - Swifty
      
      It is highly unlikely.
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:59am
- Nukuleka
  
  The coverage of Folau by the media has reinforced every suspicion one might have had about the concept of ‘fake news’. The MSM has lied and distorted the facts at every turn. They are on a witch hunt and won’t stop until they have totally destroyed Folau and his wife. For that reason I have done something that I never would normally even consider-I have donated to his legal fighting fund on the Australian Christian Lobby website.
  
  As long term Kiwibloggers will already know, I make no bones about the fact that I am gay. I do believe in diversity but I also believe even more in diversity of opinion.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:35am
  - doggone7
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You have made up your mind that the MSM has distorted the truth because, given the information you have gained, through the media not doubt, you want to believe that.
    
    It is highly likely that you have not had access to people who have been closely involved with the range of events around the story, over time in various contexts. That doesn’t stop you believing your account is more accurate than those of people who have been.
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:55am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      It is you who are wrong.
      This not a discussion on the merits of his views.
      This is ENTIRELY about his RIGHT to have them and express them.
      The same right that people with the contra view, are only too proudly and loudly expressing and claiming their right to do so.
      Q: If some union member in a factory expressed the same views, is it right to fire them?
      
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      June 26, 2019 10:03am
      - doggone7
        
        Nukuleka said “The coverage of Folau by the media has reinforced every suspicion one might have had about the concept of ‘fake news’. The MSM has lied and distorted the facts at every turn.”
        
        I said she/he had made up their mind that the MSM had distorted the truth from information they had gained through the media not through information gained through direct contact and knowledge.
        
        That’s nothing to do with Folau’s views and right to express them, it’s about Nukuleka’s right to views, not about Folau but about the media. “The MSM has lied and distorted the facts at every turn,” they said.
        
        The media lied and distorted at every turn? How do they know? In comparison to Folau who did not lie.
        
        “But as far back as last year, Folau stated he would be prepared to walk away from the sport.
        
        “I told Raelene, if she felt the situation had become untenable – that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn’t be worked through, I would walk away from my contract, immediately,” Folau wrote last year.
        
        https://au.sports.yahoo.com/drew-mitchell-uncovers-israel-folau-lie-092016107.html
        
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        June 26, 2019 11:59am
  - Swifty
    
    You are a good person Nukuleka.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:47am
  - Bell-47
    
    I am a staunch atheist, Falou’s rantings are his own thoughts and words. Not so long ago those thoughts and words would be ignored. As was Michael Jones’ Sunday match absence due to religious reasons. Nobody cared, if they did it was only because we were short a brilliant player. It’s woke BS. I see the total is fast approaching $2M NZD, I applaud your will to donate and the reasons why. I too will be making a donation not because I support what he said but because I support his right to say it. Most of all I will donate to ensure woke organisation like GoFundMe get the message loud and clear they are not he arbiters of freedom and I will not cow-tow to their will.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:18am
  - MickMac
    
    I donated too, exactly because of that.
    It was a fck u moment for me.
    Never done that before.
    Might do it again if he needs a 2nd tranche later.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:44am
- srylands
  
  I think all religion is nuts. But I am very uncomfortable about what has happened to him. If he had urged his followers to harm gays then fair enough. But the whole “immoral folk will burn in hell” is just bog standard evangelical dogma.
  
  It is only a short jump to apply this sanction to people with other “objectionable” views. I recall an author at The Standard who advocated imprisoning climate change deniers.
  
  Where it gets murky is denigrating your employer. If he had tweeted “The Rugby Australia board are morons” then he could quite rightly lose his job. But he did not do that.
  
  Seriously the best response to people with nutty beliefs is to make fun of them or ignore them.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:37am
  - Gravelroad
    
    If he had tweeted “The Rugby Australia Board are Mormons” , that would have been even worse than labeling them morons……..
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:42am
  - marcw
    
    The gutless news media bully Folau because of his Christian beliefs. They deserve the term of gutless because they would never make the same attack on Williams because of his (to my mind) more offensive views on the fate of gays that Muslims preach and actually enact.
    
    MSM, Je ne suis pas Charlie.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:57am
  - Fletch
    
    Somewhere along the way sports bodies have become the arbiters of what is moral. First it was Falou and his rugby and then more recently Netball Australia have pronounced that his wife (who plays for the Adelaide Thunderbirds) will not be punished for supporting her husband. How very gracious of them.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:37am
- Andrei
  
  The amazing thing to me is that the “offensive” post was a modern English paraphrase of Corinthians 6:9-10.
  
  When this first erupted I posted this passage in teh original Koine with a comment that this ancient text was now deemed illegitimate. The mods in their infinite wisdom did not let it through sigh
  
  Here’s the thing with any literature or text from times past there is the possibility of modern sensitivities being pricked
  
  Oliver Twist could be deemed anti semitic for example as with the Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice and Nilolai Golgol’s Taras Bulba
  
  The Bible is what it is and quoting it, even in incredibly bad paraphrase should not cause distress and probably doesn’t in reality.
  
  What the left need to advance their agenda is to shout people they don’t agree with down and what better way than to feign offense?
  
  I have seen so many commentators in the past few weeks, who identify as LGBTIQ….. who when questioned make the whole debate about their feelings, in fact turn the conversation into one where they are talking about themselves.
  
  Why does this text make them feel so uncomfortable?
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:50am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Here’s a view on taking offense.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:08am
  - Fletch
    
    If a person still has even a spark of conscience then deep down inside they still know the difference between right and wrong. And rather than be confronted with that reality, they would rather just push away or ban anything that reminds them of that.
    
    Robert Reilly writes –
    
    For any individual, moral failure is hard to live with because of the rebuke of conscience. Habitual moral failure, what used to be called vice, can be lived with only by obliterating conscience through rationalization. When we rationalize, we convince ourselves that heretofore forbidden desires are permissible. We advance the reality of the desires over the reality of the moral order to which the desires should be subordinated. In our minds we replace the reality of moral order with something more congenial to the activity we are excusing. In short, we assert that bad is good.
    
    The power of rationalization drives the culture war, gives it its particular revolutionary character, and makes its advocates indefatigable. It may draw its energy from desperation, but it is all the more powerful for that. Since failed rationalization means self-recrimination, it must be avoided at all cost. For this reason, the differences over which the culture war is being fought are not subject to reasoned discourse. Persons protecting themselves by rationalizing are interested not in finding the truth, but in maintaining the illusion that allows them to continue their behavior. For them to succeed in this, everyone must accede to their rationalization. This is why revolutionary change is required. The necessity for self-justification requires the complicity of the whole culture. Holdouts cannot be tolerated because they are potential rebukes. The self-hatred, anger, and guilt that a person possessed of a functioning conscience would normally feel from doing wrong are redirected by the rationalization and projected upon society as a whole (if the society is healthy), or upon those in society who do not accept the rationalization.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:45am
    - GoVege
      
      Fletch: is it “wrong” to want to spend your life with the person you love?
      And is it “right” to marry someone you dont love in order to avoid condemnation by judgemental people, thereby making that person’s life a misery and any unfortunate children produced by the loveless union?
      Religious intolerance such as that expressed by Folau has resulted in much human suffering and continues to thanks to this kind of bigotry.
      
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      June 26, 2019 12:55pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Jeez man let it go.
        
        I managed to tick most of his “sins” off so I’m off to hell… I hope like fuck you’re not there.
        
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        June 26, 2019 4:58pm
      - Fletch
        
        The thing is, who decides what is right and wrong? That a certain small subsection of society can go against the laws of Nature (with the big N) and everyone else must accede? What if a female teacher said it wasn’t fair that she couldn’t spend her life with the 13 year old student she says she loves? Who is to say her nay?
        
        I used the example of a teacher, because it seems that more and more female teachers are playing up and having affairs with their young charges. But you understand where I’m coming from. Who is to say that the subsection with one set of desires is right, and the other subsection is wrong? It is plain enough to see that having a desire itself is not reason enough to legalize or condone something. It seems to be regularly used as an excuse by the “love is love” crowd although it is plain to see that that reasoning is specious.
        
        If you are a Christian, you believe that God created us all and that the creator makes the rules for his creation. Every creation comes with an instruction manual. Buy a new dishwasher – it has a manual. Buy a new stove – it has a manual. Buy a new stereo (you get the idea). They function according to the design of the creator. If you purposely use the item in a way that goes against the way it is made (ie, switching the inflow and outflow hoses on your washing machine) then expect disaster. Not because it is deemed “wrong”, but it is wrong because of the havoc it brings in being used the wrong way for which it was created.
        
        Humans are made a certain way. Science knows what each conduit of the body is for – waste, procreation, food intake, etc – and if you purposely misuse them then you may be destined for heartache.
        
        Just today there is a news story that syphilis is on the rise in NZ.
        
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/06/new-syphilis-action-plan-as-outbreak-spreads-across-new-zealand.html
        
        And according to the story, “Nearly 70 percent of cases were reported in men who have sex with men”. Why do you think this is?
        
        I’m not saying I am not sympathetic for people who have desires for the same sex. Sometimes humans cannot control our desires. But it is wrong to characterize people who disagree with you as “hateful, judgmental and bigoted” when they are applying what is (to them) the only universal moral standard, our “instruction manual” – The Bible.
        
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        June 26, 2019 7:49pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The problem is that, demonstrably, the Bible (whichever version you prefer and whichever parts you choose to follow) is not a ‘universal moral standard’. There are many competing standards on Earth, let alone the rest of the universe.
        
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        June 26, 2019 8:19pm
      - GoVege
        
        I get your drift, Fletch.
        Many of the people who believe homosexuality is a sin against nature are not necessarily hateful and bigoted, but the effect of their condemnation of homosexuality has disastrous effects on the lives of many decent individuals.
        Do you think the British government in the 50’s was right to drive Alan Turing to suicide, a man who helped to save humankind from Hitler?
        How much harder do you think it is for gay teenagers, being put down just for being different from the majority?
        You choose to believe that the Bible is the instruction manual for our species.
        Science indicates it is not.
        Yes a lot of gay men should be less promiscuous.
        So should a lot of heterosexual ones.
        Restraint is a wonderful virtue.
        It gives people time to weigh up the consequences and potential harm of their actions.
        
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        June 26, 2019 10:08pm
  - MickMac
    
    Andrei
    Funny as it applies to all people on the earth not just 1% of society.
    that includes all Christians too.
    
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
    
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor [b]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The koine text may have been a little descriptive for modern sensibilities.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:50am
- mjw
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  So, if you support Israel Folau, do you also support intolerant and hateful expressions from followers of other religions?
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:54am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    It’s a fair question! Do we?
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:13am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I don’t support them. I just don’t think they should lose their jobs for it.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:31am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    As long as it’s not incitement I support their right to hold and express those views, yes.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:23am
    - GoVege
      
      What many people don’t seem to realize is that Folau’s antiquated ideas are typical of many Pacific Islanders, over there and over here.
      He may “only” be promoting violence and torture in a mythical afterlife, but his denigration of gays and others has very harmful..including fatal ….effects here in the real world.
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:12am
      - Jack5
        
        The row is about Folau’s right to express his opinion, not what the opinion is.
        
        It’s nonsense to argue that, in a public forum like the internet, saying someone will go to Hell have devastating effects in the “real world”.
        
        For centuries, people have been warning others publicly that they face eternal damnation. Once the Doomsters stood on street corners with posters warning “The end is nigh”.
        
        No-one cared. No-one suggested the Doomsters should lose that right to preach in the streets. The internet is a vast town square, and speech rights in it are important.
        
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        June 26, 2019 11:28am
      - GoVege
        
        Its not nonsense, Jack5.
        Why do you think young gay people have five times the suicide rate of straight ones?
        
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        June 26, 2019 9:51pm
  - alloytoo
    
    I don’t support intolerant and hateful expressions from anyone.
    
    I do however support everyone’s right to express themselves.
    
    I do so on the basis that I support my right to mock, ridicule and laugh at their expression.
    
    So to be clear.
    I don’t support the content of Folau’s speech.
    I support his right to say it.
    
    If Folau contracted (directly or indirectly) away his right to express himself, then that is a contractual employment matter.
    
    The witch hunt (especially against his wife) is wrong.
    
    And for the record, I was included in the groups of people allegedly going to Hell.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:39am
    - GoVege
      
      Is bullying, excluding and condemning people a “right” of free expression, alleytoo?
      Would you feel safe to walk hand-in-hand with your same-sex partner (if you had one) knowing that people like Folau are publically saying that you will be roasting in hell?
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:19am
      - alloytoo
        
        Speaking as someone who was included in Folau’s “Condemned” list, I don’t give a damn what some religious nutter says.
        
        As long he’s not advocating that people commence the burning on earth then he’s perfectly welcome to twaddle whatever he likes about the afterlife.
        
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        June 26, 2019 2:59pm
      - GoVege
        
        Thats easy for you to say, alloytoo.
        Why dont you try walking hand in hand with another dude and see what happens.
        I know a young gay woman who can’t attend church with her family because the minister (her uncle) will beat her up in front of the congregation.
        How “Christian” is that?
        
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        June 26, 2019 4:57pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        As an unbeliever of many years, I too am doubtless headed for a hot afterlife in Folau’s scheme of things, but unless he is threatening to send me there prematurely, his views neither break my leg nor pick my pocket (Jefferson).
        
        The perils of penalising holders of such views (whether by corporations, the mob or the government) potentially far exceed the dangers of expressing them as people learn to win social arguments by forcibly suppressing their opponents.
        
        GoVege: that’s assault and it’s already illegal.
        
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        June 26, 2019 7:37pm
      - alloytoo
        
        @govegI know a young gay woman who can’t attend church with her family because the minister (her uncle) will beat her up in front of the congregation.
        
        Again you’re conflating freedom of speech with assaults and threats of same.
        
        How “Christian” is that?
        
        Not what I would expect from the priests in my family, but alas, as Brian Tamaki proves, not all priests are created equal.
        
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        June 26, 2019 7:49pm
      - GoVege
        
        KD: it may be illegal but it is virtually impossible for a young gay P I person to make a complaint to the authorities against their older relative, especially a minister.
        If they did, they would probably be rejected by their entire family and community.
        
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        June 26, 2019 9:48pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      And Muslims’ right to express support for sharia law?
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:24am
      - igm
        
        What about their devout hatred of Christians and their intent on removing them from the face of the earth, this would include our compliant unelected PM here, or is she now a converted muslim? Don’t think so, she lives in sin, even against Islam.
        
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        June 26, 2019 12:28pm
      - GoVege
        
        Most of the Muslims here in NZ are not the ignorant hard-liners many seem to think.
        If they are, they should go back home.
        
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        June 26, 2019 4:53pm
  - MickMac
    
    I’m with the NZBORA on this.
    It applies to everyone in NZ.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:49am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t know… I don’t much like you though.
    
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    June 26, 2019 4:59pm
- wreck1080
  
  When you read harry potter to someone, are you speaking the truth or a lie?
  
  Neither, you’re just reading a work of fiction.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:59am
  - Swifty
    
    Exactly.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:43am
  - Fletch
    
    And yet, the events in the Bible are set in real places in real times with people who really existed. It’s a history book, not a book of fiction.
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:00am
    - SGA
      
      I think that even a good number of non-YEC Christians would balk at the idea of the bible being called a “history book”, Fletch. That’s not its purpose.
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:29am
    - Swifty
      
      Some events, some people, it appears were/are real.
      
      The rest not.
      
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      June 26, 2019 12:02pm
- SGA
  
  What I find intriguing is that, despite this extraordinary pile on, to my knowledge he has not once been accused of being wrong. Did he tell the truth or is he a liar? Surely that is the crux of the matter yet none of his detractors seem to want to make that call.
  
  I take a slightly different perspective on this issue. Should an organisation such as the ARU be able to enforce contracts that limit their players’ rights to free speech? Do such contracts breach whatever greater rights that they have under Australian law?
  
  If that’s acceptable, then it should apply to all. Being a Christian, Muslim, or Hindu, say, doesn’t give you rights above and beyond everyone else. The contract still applies to you. The veracity of what is said is irrelevant.
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:06am
  - alloytoo
    
    I agree.
    
    If you can contractually limit your freedom of expression and it is legal, then it is legal in respect of all colour creeds and sexual orientations.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:41am
  - MickMac
    
    That is the nub of their defence.
    NO free speech should not be broken because of a contract.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:51am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    No, free speech has nothing to do with it. Freedom of expression is the right to express opinions without being punished by the government. It doesn’t affect employers at all. For example, Folau could be sacked (both legally and morally) for saying the moon landings were faked.
    
    This is about freedom of religion. Employers are not allowed to discriminate based on religion. An employer who sacks someone for talking about their religious views outside work should be liable for damages or forced to reinstate the employee.
    
    If the contract explicitly said no talking about religion it would probably be unenforceable. When the contract just says don’t bring the employer into disrepute, that has to be interpreted consistently with religious freedom which means it can’t apply to what Folau did.
    
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    June 26, 2019 12:06pm
    - SGA
      
      This is about freedom of religion.
      
      So you believe that if a non-Chrisitian player had been posting derogatory comments about homosexuals over social media, then there would have been no consequence. Really?
      
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      June 26, 2019 12:32pm
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        Not at all. A non-Christian would have been treated the same as Folau but would have no recourse.
        
        Freedom of religion is intended to protect people who do or say things for genuine religious reasons, even if the same thing done for non-religious reasons would incur consequences. A Sikh police officer can wear a turban but a bogan police officer can’t wear a beanie.
        
        It is not supposed to be fair in the purest sense of the word. It is supposed to be something we make an allowance for so we don’t have the kind of divisive religious conflict that has ripped apart so many other countries.
        
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        June 26, 2019 2:48pm
      - SGA
        
        No, I don’t see that Nigel. It sounds like that you think that Christians have a special right to speak out on social issues that the rest of us don’t enjoy (and we are talking about freedom of speech, not headgear). I can see why some Christians think they deserve such special privileges, but I disagree.
        
        I am sure there are other Christians playing for the ARU as well. They don’t seem to be compelled to make similar comments.
        
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        June 26, 2019 2:58pm
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        We all have the same right to speak.
        
        Employers don’t have the right to impose conditions on employees that would burden their practice of their religion, expect when those conditions are necessary for them to do the job.
        
        It’s in the Human Rights Act in NZ and there is a similar law in Australia.
        
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        June 26, 2019 6:23pm
      - SGA
        
        impose conditions on employees that would burden their practice of their religion,
        
        So Falou must post comments concerning homosexuals on social media in order to practice his religion. No, I don’t see that.
        
        This should have all been sorted out before he choose to sign his contract.
        
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        June 26, 2019 7:35pm
- kloyd0306
  
  This entire drama is due to Rugby Australia’s main sponsor, Qantas, whose CEO Alan Joyce is gay.
  
  Joyce has got his knickers in a twist and is using his position to bully Folau.
  
  My question to Joyce is: Considering that Islamic Imams advocate for throwing gays off tall buildings, do you allow them to fly on your airline?
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:49am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Refrigeration Day!
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June 26, 2019 8:03am
- krazykiwi
  
  Someone left Wellington’s fridge door open overnight. Brrrrr
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A little chilly, but a magnificent winter’s day in prospect.
    
    6 2
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    June 26, 2019 9:26am
    - MickMac
      
      yes it is.
      Magnificent.
      The waterfront was splendid this am.
      
      1 1
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      June 26, 2019 10:51am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I went out to a meeting in Whanganui last night at 6pm when the temperature was 7*. When I came home just after 7pm, it was already down to 4*. It wasn’t just the Wellington fridge door!
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:27am
    - Tarquin North
      
      Not too flash up here in the winterless north! South easterly at the moment – comes round Coromandel and straight into lower Northland. My father used to call it the poverty wind – bad for fishing and pretty much anything else.
      
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      June 26, 2019 9:54am
- RalphT
  
  With an appropriate frost here in Wellington.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:26am
- MCos
  
  Or heater as they’re referred to this time of year by the pecuniary disadvantaged in places like Tuatapere
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:39am
- Komata
  
  MM@0830
  
  Why, if there is Global Warming, is World Refrigeration Day celebrated; a contradiction, surely?
  
  (Asking for a friend).
  
  Thank you.
  
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  June 26, 2019 7:29pm
MickMac

How far is this Climate Emergency rubbish going to go too?
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June 26, 2019 8:06am
- Kabull
  
  It will continue until enough sensible people stand up and call out the alarmists – and until teachers are required to stop pushing their single-minded hysteria into children.
  
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  June 26, 2019 11:51am
Simon

They said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

They said climate change will make snow disappear and now they say climate change creates heavy snowfalls

They said Hillary would win.

Worst of all. They said England would win the cricket world cup.

When will the lies end?
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June 26, 2019 8:07am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The CWC is forcing that age-old consideration for Kiwi sports fans. Who do we hate most: Australia or England?
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:26am
  - Simon
    
    Australia or England?
    
    Yes troubling question which has puzzled our ancestors as far back as the Neolithic age.
    
    The answer of course is the away team.
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:55am
    - hullkiwi
      
      If you have lived in England any length of time, you become aware that English confidence/arrogance ranks right up there with Australia. So, you become an ABE (Anyone but England) supporter.
      
      This phenomenon was such in the UK, that it upset Lord Norman Tebbit so much that he commented about how British born Asians living in England needed to pass a loyalty test. This was because of all the support that India would receive when playing England at Lords or the Oval.
      
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      June 26, 2019 9:48am
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  Solar minimum taking effect. Invest in ski areas!
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Where have all the sunspots gone? Sometime, never.
    
    The world exists independently of the UNIPCC.
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:22am
Happychappy

The Academic’s want a four year Parliamentary term and rise of MP’s to 150.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/report-on-new-zealand-parliamentary-scrutiny-recommends-more-politicians-longer-terms.html
More JLR in the making
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June 26, 2019 8:08am
- cmm
  
  And the people want the opposite: no more than 100 MPs.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:30am
  - kloyd0306
    
    I’m all or a two year term, 80 MPs and FFP.
    
    Muppets like this current mob can do a lot of damage in two years. We have evidence.
    
    More power to the people
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:53am
hullkiwi

They’ve completed the search of the drift and found nothing! Can the taxpayers now send the bill to Bernie and families?
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June 26, 2019 8:08am
- Poppa
  
  But but….I thought it was a crime scene?
  
  I thought it had gone too quiet
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:30am
- mandk
  
  No, they’ve only gone in 170m.
  
  Only another 2,200m and $$$$ millions to go.
  
  And all delivered to you by the Little/Peters vanity project.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:31am
  - Tricati
    
    That’s if they can get the water out – seems its pouring in and additional equipment required to deal with it. More spending on a virtue signalling crusade at tax payers expense.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:23am
  - kevn
    
    @mandk… Add mine flooding to the equation.
    It must be looking hopeless surely.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:05am
- G152
  
  Well, they’ve ‘searched’ the first hundred meters of the tunnel leading to the drifts..
  Only about a kilometer or so to go
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:11am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They have only gone 17om!. No one has entered the main sealed part yet.
  
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  June 26, 2019 11:24am
  - alloytoo
    
    Is $170 not the money they’ve requested to go further?
    
    money better served building a small memorial and giving the balance to Pharmac.
    
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    June 26, 2019 3:05pm
Happychappy

It looks like Jacinda and Phil don’t know the meaning of the word truth and the houses for Housing NZ are well behind.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/kiwibuild-yet-another-failure-revealed.html
Failure is the best word to associate this Government with as there hasn’t been a lot of wins.
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June 26, 2019 8:14am
- sooty
  
  You tell me one of the Labour government policys that actualy work as planned!
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:55am
  - Tall Man
    
    The one to give ardern $60,000 maternity leave.
    
    The one to get her speaking to an empty UN chamber.
    
    The one to get her re elected with a swathe of baby photos.
    
    The one to use our money to get shane jones re elected to shore up the coalition (don’t tell anyone but it’s a big fail up North).
    
    The “squirrel campaign” to divert media and “blog” attention away from the fucking mess that is the government and focused on the pony tail pulling monster..( only the really stupid thinks that one works”.
    
    However, one very successful policy has been to silence a great many critics through pressure on blogs who now need to avoid “upsetting” ardern.
    
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    June 26, 2019 5:10pm
Maggie Pie

My partner has a bumper sticker on his Bronco that reads:

[ ONE MILLION KIWIS HUNT, FISH, SHOOT & VOTE ]

He reckons our local MP should take note of that and stop wasting time on promoting his euthanasia bill. ACT needs to get back to its founding principals of lowering tax – and stop beating a dead horse.
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June 26, 2019 8:17am
- cmm
  
  It doesn’t matter what you stick on it….
  
  It’s still a Bronco!
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:31am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Soooo true!
    His one is white with the factory-fitted ‘Pursuit Package’ 🙂
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:51am
  - sooty
    
    He had to decide which rust hole to cover!
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:57am
    - dubya
      
      A Bronco in Epsom, even! Must stick out like a sore thumb amongst the Volvo XC90 motorcade in the Dio pick up lane!
      
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      June 26, 2019 9:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    To be fair, i had hoped my post would have stimulated debate about David Seymour’s ‘End of life choice bill’ – rather than become a discussion about my partners f~~ing Bronco 🙁
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:47am
hullkiwi

Yesterday, DPF posted about the the interim report from the ICCC, stating how expensive it would be to “trannsform” the NZ economy to carbon free.
Last night I had a look at the Standard, in amongst yesterday’s ‘Open Mike’ posts someone had raised the issue of this report. Well, in case we didn’t know it, we are a bunch of climate change deniers and luddites. After all, the bid to go carbon free in their eyes was only “an aspirational goal”. Sorry that is b******t, on the contrary, the government are planning to spend $billions to achieve this goal – for instance the electrification of Auckland’s bus fleet is one project in this crazy scheme.

But it also highlights the disconnect between Labour supports, the CoL and reality.
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June 26, 2019 8:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  It’s only aspirational because someone else is paying for it. Ask the poster if, the last time they stooped to take a flight, if they paid the extra for a ‘carbon offset’. The last time I asked this of a chap calling me a denier he said ‘yes!’ and then couldn’t tell me how much he’d paid.. not even the quantum. Liars.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:31am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Much like hardcore socialists who never make donations to the IRD. They really aren’t that committed personally.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:08am
- Maxx
  
  Knowing which goals are actual or aspirational is a bit like knowing which hat Shane Jones was wearing when he makes a statement.
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:37am
  - sooty
    
    Never mind Shanes hat.
    Was he wearing his trousers!
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I thought ‘aspirational’ goals were ones politicians announce, but decide not to achieve – like ‘catching up with Australia’ by 2025.
  How dare politicans presume to actually commit resources to a goal?
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:28am
- Ross12
  
  hullkiwi
  The UK has passed a billed on the carbon free by 2050 BS. It is estimated to cost the 1 TRILLION pounds ( many think it will be more).
  The Canadian journalist , Terence Corcoran has written a piece looking at it from a world wide basis and notes :
  
  ” In 2018, world consumption of fossil fuels rose to 11,865 million tonnes of oil equivalent (mtoe). To get that down to near zero by 2050 as proposed by the zeroists would require a lot of alternative energy sources.
  
  University of Colorado scientist Roger Pielke Jr. did some of the rough numbers. “There are 11,161 days until 2050. Getting to net zero by 2050 requires replacing one mtoe of fossil fuel consumption every day starting now.” On a global basis, such a transition would require building the equivalent of one new 1.5-gigawatt nuclear plant every day for the next 30 years. “
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:40am
  - krazykiwi
    
    … or 3,000,000 new solar panels per day…
    
    … or 743 new wind turbines per day…
    
    … each and every day for the next 11,500 days
    
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    June 26, 2019 8:00pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    A 1.5GW nuclear plant is about $6billion, so that is about 2 trillion per year, or 2.5% of 80 trillion GDP.
    Similar to total car industry. If we were building at that rate costs would come down to <1% of GDP. It's affordable, but unnecessarily abrupt.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:24pm
- stephieboy
  
  hullkiwi,”.. disconnect between …..”
  
  Something is missing there?
  
  You!
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:07am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Stephie, do you have anything to add to the debate other than insults? Read the above comments, and recognise your own disconnect with reality.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:36am
    - stephieboy
      
      hullkiwi , a clue is in the post made at 9.28am.
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:13am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Stephie, the clue is as I wrote, your friends are saying the “goal” of being carbon free was aspirational (read the Standard, yesterday’s Open Mike).
        
        So if it is aspirational, why:
        1. Has the govt never said so;
        2. Commiting substantial money to it; and
        3. Not bring honest with New Zealanders, and tell people, that to achieve the goal will be expensive and create significant economic damage to NZ for an unobtainable goal?
        
        I’ll give you 2 hints why the government says nothing:
        1. The Prime Minister can see no reason to lie in politics, so she’ll say nothing about her policy bring unobtainable. Thereby she is neither telling the truth or a lie; and
        2. She doesn’t want to signal to voters, the OECD and others that the government is following policies that are not to the economic well being of New Zealand.
        
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        June 26, 2019 12:12pm
Tall Man

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/toddler-in-starship-hospital-with-critical-head-injuries/

And there we have it. This is what happens when the pc police interfere and they don’t step in to save a child.
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June 26, 2019 8:22am
- Tony Stuart
  
  This is a terribly sad case. This is the mother’s sixth child, and all the previous five have been removed from her care by Oranga Tamariki and its predecessors. It is believed the child’s injuries are “non-accidental”.
  
  This is EXACTLY the kind of case where Oranga Tamariki social workers should be removing the child from the mother at birth. It’s not an issue of race; it’s an issue of safety of the child. And at some point in the future, some government needs to have the courage to broach the issue of court-ordered sterilisation in extreme circumstances, and I would suggest that this case comes pretty close to “extreme”; six children, all now in the care of the state. What does the future hold for THEM?
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:32am
  - MCos
    
    “What does the future hold for THEM?”
    It’s one thing to question whether or not the mother should be prevented from having children, but quite another to write off the unfortunate kids she’s already given birth to.
    All we hear about are the ratbats, but there’s anonymous Kiwis out there who are dedicated to giving these children as normal a life as possible.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:02am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I’m not writing them off MCos, but there is abundant evidence that children born into such circumstances are more likely to have negative outcomes later in life. That was the thinking behind Bill English’s Social Investment Approach, which Labour has adopted in part, rebranded and claimed as its own.
      
      And sadly, the evidence shows that kids who go to foster homes are also more likely to be represented in negative demographics later in life. I know a number of people who foster-care, and they do their absolute best for the children in their care. But many of the children are so badly damaged by the time they go into care that the foster carers are fighting an uphill battle from Day One.
      
      It’s a hugely complex issue, with no simple solutions. However that’s not an excuse not to try, which is why I so admired Sir Bill English for throwing away the textbook, and trying something ground-breaking. Of all the disappointments over the change of government in 2017, English not being able to push on with Social Investment was, for me, the biggest.
      
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      June 26, 2019 9:37am
      - Jules99
        
        They end up with emotional and psychological problems, sometimes due to environment but also from foetal alcohol syndrome and maternal drug abuse while pregnant.
        
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        June 26, 2019 1:08pm
  - Sacha
    
    I agree – once a person has had a child removed from care, sterilisation should be enforced.
    There are far too many children being removed into state care – and they are only the abused/at risk ones we hear about.
    Then, we wouldn’t have to be concerned about the woman’s behaviour and its consequences.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:19am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We are not given the facts. I read it as the latest child had triggered their concern so they removed all.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:28am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The Herald reported yesterday that the other five children had “previously” been removed from the mother’s care. I would suggest that Oranga Tamariki has long been involved with this family.
      
      A 17-month-old boy is fighting for his life in Starship Hospital after suffering severe head injuries.
      
      The Herald can reveal the toddler’s mother has had five children previously removed from her care by Oranga Tamariki.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12243660&utm_source=twitter%26utm_medium%3Dsocial%26utm_campaign%3Dnzh_tw%20
      
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      June 26, 2019 10:32am
      - Fletch
        
        I wish they’d stop giving Maori names to govt depts. It’s CYFS isn’t it…
        
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        June 26, 2019 11:03am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Anne Tolley previously rebranded CYFS as the Ministry for Vulnerable Children – Oranga Tamariki, which described the organisation perfectly. Its primamry role WAS to ensure the protection of vulnerable children. However the woke Left decided that name stigmatised the agency’s clients, and Labour changed it to simply Oranga Tamariki.
        
        Once again Anne Tolley has been proved correct, as an 18 month old child lies in intensive care at Starship Hospital, as a result of what the Police describe as “non-accidental injuries”.
        
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        June 26, 2019 11:28am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        I think that in the case of this particular Govt. department the Maori name reflects the majority of their customers.
        
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        June 26, 2019 11:33am
  - projectman
    
    Probably more correctly at some time in the past the question of court-ordered sterlisation should have been broached.
    
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    June 26, 2019 9:52am
  - MickMac
    
    ,This is exactly the case for free tubal ligation and Vasectomies.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:56am
    - GoVege
      
      They’re not even allowed to mention “contraception” to these totally incapable parents, let alone “sterilization”.
      No doubt due to the input of certain wonderful dames who reckon that kids of 13 to 17 bearing kids = “our fertility”.
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:44am
  - MickMac
    
    Sorry you are wrong Tony , this is exactly the case for free tubal ligation!
    
    If we really loved kids we would do it.
    and Free vasectomies.
    Only Waiterire DHB offer free.
    CCHDB doesn’t and the WINZ payment is $75 dollars short of the $450 cost at the clinic.
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:57am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Where the heck is Waiterire?
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:29am
- kevn
  
  @Tall… I think this is a perfect example of
  ‘a need to be speyed’.
  Then she/they can ro ot as much as possible without consequences. Apart from personal health issues of course…
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:09am
Nukuleka

The Human Rights Commission is currently running a survey to find out just what they should be doing. It’s an interesting concept, I guess: a publicly funded body has so little sense of real purpose that it flounders around desperately seeking something to increase its relevance. Lots of talk about rights with ne’er a mention of anyone’s responsibilities- and a goodly choice of gender options along the way.

Oh that we had a truly conservative party that would be calling “TIME” on all this pc garbage and saving the taxpayers the cost of running such publicly funded, left wing, anti-establishment nonsense.
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June 26, 2019 8:24am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Any group “seeking something to increase its relevance” will latch on to the most sensational of stories and use it to seek media attention.
  
  (If it bleeds, it leads…)
  
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  June 26, 2019 8:29am
- hullkiwi
  
  The scary thing is that the Human Rights Commission in its various manifestations has been around for circa 40 years and it is so uncertain of its purpose that it needs to do a survey?
  
  Sadly, it is not just the HRC, there are are any number of government organizations that have been created for some reason or other, time moves on, and it is debateable as to what the organisation does or what its value is.
  
  However, you’ll never get a minister who has the wit to ask for a review and confirm a course of action that means closing an organisation down. No, they apply a combination of “Yes Minster” and Parkinson Laws Principles” and search for new justifications and grow the organisation and hence their own importance.
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:38am
hullkiwi

Read yesterday on the Standard, someone being real, but a sad joke on the mentality of the thinking of Labour supporters.

They were discussing the person who had paid for the Herald ad about Luxon and National…

It seems the person, is a self made millionaire. There were were claims he had never done a hard days graft, and he is a nasty vile man etc….

Now the joke…

If you go to the extreme right of the National Party you get people like the person under discussion, now if you go to the extreme left of the Labour Party they are all like the Dhalai Lahma and Mother Theresa….

Yeh right…..pass me a Tuis!
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June 26, 2019 8:27am
- srylands
  
  “here were were claims he had never done a hard days graft”
  
  The account I read suggests that this guy has done nothing but work his arse off since he left school at 15.
  
  6 years ago I thought in my innocence that I could persuade some Standard readers by logical argument. Might as well argue with an anti vaxxer or a jehovas witness.
  
  Did social media produce these people or did they exist all along and we never knew? Perhaps a bit of both. I think social media has breeded them, together with a society in New Zealand that enables a few hundred thousand adults to be bone idle.
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:14am
  - hullkiwi
    
    srylands, my response to you (a bit of a rant) ended up posted to the bottom. But I concur with your sentiments.
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:13am
mandk

OWN GOAL!

As at 08.30, the Isral Folau appeal has rasied $1.6 million.

More than twice as much in one day as the GoFundMe appeal raised in four.
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June 26, 2019 8:33am
- krazykiwi
  
  I chipped in again. More this time. The all out assault on freedom of expression is disturbing.
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:09am
- igm
  
  Wonderful news . . . must be a lot of Islamaphobes around!
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:45am
- secondcumming
  
  The *Australian Charities Commission* has just announced an investigation into the fund-raisers….. nearly 2 mill debited to credit cards and counting 😎
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:50am
- septic skeptic
  
  Maybe Folau should just let this build a bit and then just keep the cash. No point paying it over to the lawyers in what’s likely a lost cause.
  A fool and his money … still sad to see that this is the charity folks donate to!
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:13am
emmess

I said the other day that term ‘Climate Emergency’ would soon be ramped up to something more extreme.

BBC News – ‘Climate apartheid’ between rich and poor looms, UN expert warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48755154
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June 26, 2019 8:36am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’m expecting “climate genocide” next.
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:06am
  - Jules99
    
    And holocaust.
    
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    June 26, 2019 1:04pm
  - Scooter
    
    Climate Armaggedon
    
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    June 26, 2019 7:32pm
Maggie Pie

Ten years to the day. My partner was wondering if it would be okay to start wearing his
‘I Love Michael Jackson’ tee-shirt again.
12 5
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June 26, 2019 8:58am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Tell him to beat it.
  
  9 3
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  June 26, 2019 9:29am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Is it child-sized? Or is that the one that says “Michael Jackson loves me”?
  
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  June 26, 2019 9:59am
- stephieboy
  
  Why not In Memorium: Syd ( overdose ) Vicious!
  
  ?
  
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  June 26, 2019 11:16am
unaha-closp

Our Environment Minister David Parker has just come up with his next big idea. He wants New Zealand to become a global aviation hub connecting Asia to South America.

Seriously our Mr-the-biggest-threat-ever-climate-change wants us to burn aviation fuel like there is no tomorrow. Wow.

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/100385/david-parker-says-nz-china-councils-southern-link-proposal-ripe-further-development
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June 26, 2019 9:08am
- septic skeptic
  
  Isn’t that what Emirates proposed for Auckland, but Air NZ persuadedthe governmentthat it would be bedforNZ tourism?
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:51am
  - Jack5
    
    China doesn’t NZ to facilitate trade with South America. The distances rule that out, and we don’t speak Spanish and South Americans don’t speak Maori.
    
    Air distances:
    Shanghai to Lima, Peru: 17,165km
    Shanghai to Lima via Auckland: 20, 155km
    
    Detail:
    Shanghai to Auckland: 9385km
    Auckland to Lima : 10,770km
    
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    June 26, 2019 4:26pm
- Tricati
  
  Maybe they are looking to tax the drug traffic that will flow between Asia & South America.
  Better income than water levy I’m sure.
  
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  June 26, 2019 12:37pm
MrTips

This really pisses me off, but not for the reasons one might immediately think.

It pisses me off because we keep hearing from Lyndsay Freer. I could give a flying f*** about Lyndsay’s view on anything.

It’s YOU Bishop Dunn and ESPECIALLY YOU Card. Dew who should be talking. You spineless milksop and mumpsimus respectively, along with the ridiculous Em. Bp. Cullinane and wormtongue Williams, have basically let all this happen on your watch in this country. And you get others to front it for you.

No respect at all for you and your smell-feast behaviours. Its a miracle that the newer Bishops, who have to get caught up in your trash, even sit in the same room as you.
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June 26, 2019 9:14am
Nookin

The chinese will be loving Shane Jones today — assuming they get the $9.9m of taxpayers money that Treasury said was foolish.
https://www.odt.co.nz/rural-life/dairy/westland-milk-sale-process-seriously-flawed

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/revealed-government-ignored-treasury-advice-on-9-9m-westland-milk-provincial-growth-fund-loan.html
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June 26, 2019 9:15am
dubya

Why does the media insist on using ‘slams’ whenever a leftie responds to another view point? Such sloppy language, it grates whenever I see it.

For example, I’m sure Lizzie Marvelly does plenty of slamming with her latest purchases from Peaches & Cream, but it’s more appropriate to use say, criticise, condemn, denounce when talking about her response to a political issue.
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June 26, 2019 9:18am
- Tall Man
  
  “slammed” = Hate speech? Surely it is 😉
  
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  June 26, 2019 1:02pm
- Jules99
  
  I can’t stand the word. ‘Slamming’ people is the height of rudeness. If the media accused me of slamming someone I would ask them to apologise for the lie.
  
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  June 26, 2019 1:02pm
Hugh Pavletich

… NEW ZEALAND: Housing bubble banking behaviour … guess who pays with grossly excessive mortgages ? …

ANZ’s $100,000 maintenance bill for former CEO’s luxury house … Kate MacNamara … Stuff New Zealand

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113761618/anzs-100000-maintenance-bill-for-former-ceos-luxury-house

Maintaining the luxury Auckland home of former ANZ New Zealand boss David Hisco topped $100,000 a year, sources say.

The costs to keep the St Heliers property running were driven by gas expenses to heat an outdoor swimming pool, maintenance for the grounds which included a tennis court, and security.

Records provided to Stuff show landscaping and gardening alone cost over $17,000 in 2014. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… When can we expect to see mortgages responsibly capped at 3.5 times annual household incomes … like Ireland ? …

Mortgage Measures | Central Bank of Ireland

https://www.centralbank.ie/financial-system/financial-stability/macro-prudential-policy/mortgage-measures
.
.
… The Reserve Bank of New Zealand … again … requested these powers from the Government … we are awaiting the response …

Despite being knocked back by both major political parties during the 2017 election year, the RBNZ continues to push for the inclusion of a debt-to-income limiting tool in its macro-prudential toolkit … Gareth Vaughan … Interesy Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/99812/despite-being-knocked-back-both-major-political-parties-during-2017-election
.
.
… New Zealand has the worst housing crisis in the Anglosphere, we I explained 21 January this year, at the time of the release of the 2019 15th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey … refer 2019 and February Update Sections at …

Performance Urban Planning

http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/
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June 26, 2019 9:18am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  ANZ’s Kiwi problems on the radar for big investors … Stuff NZ
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113776734/anzs-kiwi-problems-on-the-radar-for-big-investors?cid=app-iPad
  
  Heavyweight Australian fund manager and ANZ Bank shareholder Paul Xiradis says the bank’s recent problems in New Zealand are a concern, after the Kiwi central bank this week ordered ANZ’s NZ arm review its capital models. … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:13am
  - Jack5
    
    For the many who won’t follow Hugh’s link, Xiradis also says: “”It is a concern but it’s something not to be… I’m not overly concerned about it.”
    
    It’s a Labour crusade against the banks, Hugh. Perhaps they’re setting up a scapegoat for when the economy turns.
    
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    June 26, 2019 12:18pm
krazykiwi

It’s happened. The wokescenti have finally come for your Dads Army repeats

A television producer has said that the BBC should cancel repeats of classic British comedy Dad’s Army because it makes the broadcaster appear pro-Brexit and inspires pro-Leave sentiments in Britons.
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June 26, 2019 9:21am
- mandk
  
  Sounds about right. The BBC has nailed its colours clearly to the mast as a remainer organisation.
  
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  June 26, 2019 11:41am
Happychappy

I will probably get a lot of down ticks for this post but who cares. Can anyone tell me or shed any light on who pays for our Parliamentary sports teams to travel overseas in world cup years and if the taxpayer does why. This year there is the two world cups Cricket and Rugbys the expense will be greater and if we are forking out for their Travel and accommodation does that set a great example in today’s environment.
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June 26, 2019 9:34am
- Swifty
  
  No downticks from me.
  
  A good question, just who does pay for their trips?
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:43am
  - alex Masterley
    
    And why are they in the UK when parliament is in session.
    Junkets anyone?
    
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    June 26, 2019 11:09am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It’s my understanding that MP’s do this at their own expense. And Parliament goes into a three-week recess after tomorrow’s sitting, so no one is wagging school.
      
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      June 26, 2019 11:32am
      - Tall Man
        
        However, we are paying the airfares.
        
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        June 26, 2019 1:01pm
Lee C

Depends how old he was when he first wore it, Maggie.
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June 26, 2019 9:46am
Lee C

… and no comments about the Select Committee plan to announce a major change to electoral process – allowing people to enrol and vote on election day.

Is this unilateral decision to make the change – formed and promoted solely by the current administration an acceptable one?

Why are they so keen to do this under cover, and without debate or cross-party support?

All part of the plan Next:

State-funded election, decided in secret, rammed through by ‘Select Committee’ and passed into law without consultation.

Then they can get that pesky 5% threshold shit-canned and guarantee a one-party state.
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June 26, 2019 9:49am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yes. It’s a unilateral decision by the Coalition, who have the numbers to ram it through Parliament. National has already expressed significant concerns about the proposals.
  
  The only people who should be allowed to enrol on Election Day are those who turn 18 on the day. With all the publicity over enrolment, paid for by our taxes, anyone who leaves enrolment to Election Day is either apathetic or lazy; take your pick.
  
  Likewise with putting Polling Booths in malls and supermarkets. With ten days of advance voting, anyone who wants to vote can, if they are prepared to make the effort. And who is going to provide security at these pop-up booths, to ensure that political parties aren’t present and trying to influence voters before they vote?
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:05am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Doesn’t the GG have the power of intervention when it becomes clear that an incumbent Government is rorting the electoral process?
    
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    June 26, 2019 10:13am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Every piece of legislation requires the Royal Assent before it becomes law. However I cannot remember a time in my 64 years when the GG has refused to given the Royal Assent to a law passed by a New Zealand government.
      
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      June 26, 2019 10:43am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Tony,
        There’s a first time for everything and this should be it.
        
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        June 26, 2019 11:14am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        I seem to remember that Norman Kirk was upset that the GG wanted to chat about the advisability of proposed legislation before he gave it the royal assent. I think the GG at that time was a retired highly eminent lawyer. Blundell or Beattie; I cannot recall exactly.
        
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        June 26, 2019 12:26pm
srylands

I have a question for Maori linguists. In most public sector workplaces, common things (fridge, dishwasher, computer, whiteboard) are labelled with the Maori name for these objects.

Who decides the Maori name for these things? Is there a committee?
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June 26, 2019 9:54am
- Jack5
  
  A Maori dictionary online gives three Maori terms for refrigerator: whiriti, pouaka makariri, and pākatio (note the macron).
  
  Smart linguists would co-opt English words into phonetically close native words, as the Japanese often do. But that doesn’t create jobs for the increasing number of people getting degrees in Maori language.
  
  Even another tiny language struggling for survival, Scots Gaelic, takes the English word “refrigerator” and bends it slightly into “reothadair”. A couple of scotches and you’d guess it easily as the place where the ice cubes are.
  
  How do the Maori terms compare with bigger, world languages?
  
  Spanish, refrigerador; French réfrigérateur; and Hindi, a word that sounds very close to “fridge”.
  
  Russian has a traditional Russian word which translates as “coldie” but a synonym which sounds almost precisely like “refrigerator”.
  
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  June 26, 2019 11:47am
  - stephieboy
    
    Jack5,
    
    Refrigerator Etymology
    But the word refrigerator is much older; it dates to the early 1600s, and refrigerate, from the Latin verb refrigerare and ultimately from the adjective frigus, meaning “cold,” dates to the preceding century. Frigus also gave us our adjective frigid.Jun 11, 2019
    Fridge vs. Refrigerator: Spelling Logic | Merriam-Webster
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at…/fridge-vs-frig-spelling-short-for-refrigerat…
    
    Sigh another borrowed word!
    
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    June 26, 2019 3:31pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Note the grammatical misfit too–none of those are in the form of nouns.
    
    whārigarētaga whārigi
    
    It’s hard or pointless trying to bring a language of 1835 into the 21st c.
    
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    June 26, 2019 4:26pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “Smart linguists would co-opt English words into phonetically close native words, as the Japanese often do. ”
    
    While this is particularly true for post-war Japanese, especially when borrowing English words for computing/telecommunications/Internet/SMS; however, Japanese has its own words for pre-war technologies such as marine engineering, aviation and refrigeration.
    
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    June 26, 2019 7:29pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Who decided the English name for these things? Was there a committee?
  
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  June 26, 2019 3:06pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Who decided the “English” word for martin was moron?
    
    It was rather obvious actually.
    
    Would you care for a rehash of ardern’s latest lie?
    
    Go on, of course you do…. “Ardern told reporters that Twyford had done an “incredible job”, and reiterated that to Mike Hosking this morning. ”
    
    Priceless isn’t it? Do you think he’ll get a “hand stamp” for trying really hard. Maybe a little “participation certificate”.
    
    Shows that ardern hasn’t got a bloody clue and you support her. That makes you a really sad sack doesn’t it.
    
    Did you remember that the anagram of your name was “amateur bullshitter”? Isn’t English amazing?
    
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    June 26, 2019 4:39pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Tall Man, you never tell fibs?
      
      1 8
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      June 26, 2019 6:10pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I try really hard to tell less lies than ardern but admittedly that gives me plenty of scope.
        
        I, however, am not the pr girl for “what’s in it for wynston” and I have never claimed that there is no need to lie in politics… which as we now know was a lie as well.
        
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        June 26, 2019 8:14pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Any language that relies on a committee to synthesize new words for it is already dead.
    
    A living language like Japanese will simply transliterate, recombine and modify existing foreign language terms on the fly to meet its needs.
    
    Example
    Original English: “Smartphone”
    Japanese transliteration: “スマートフォン” (Su-maa-to-fon)
    2nd gen Japanese: “スマホ” (Su-ma-ho) (This is the term used by young Japanese.)
    
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    June 26, 2019 7:34pm
Captain Mainwaring

Oh dear, the teachers’ pay deal pays some of them more than their principals, now the principals are upset so it’s back to the drawing board.
You couldn’t make this shit up.
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June 26, 2019 10:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Haha – another Hipkins clusterf*ck.
  
  Oh dear; how sad; never mind 😀
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:07am
- srylands
  
  So what? As a manager I had people in my team who were paid more than me because they had scarce technical skills.
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:25am
srylands

12 months ago Jaguar predicted that two-thirds of Australian cars would be electric by 2028.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/two-thirds-of-aussie-drivers-will-own-an-ev-by-2028-jaguar-says-12389/

I don’t see it. In 2018, 0.3% of car sales in Australia were electric vehicles!

https://thedriven.io/2019/02/18/v-facts-2018-ev-sales/

I doubt that 10% of vehicles will be electric by 2028. In a country with cheap petrol and huge distances, why would you buy an electric vehicle?
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June 26, 2019 10:02am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Maybe what they meant is that two-thirds of Jaguars would be electric by 2028.
  But Jaguars, like Teslas, are bought by rich pricks.
  
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  June 26, 2019 10:25am
  - stephieboy
    
    But Leafs, Hyundai EVs and Prius etc are a more affordable option for non-rich pricks like ourselves?
    
    1 20
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    June 26, 2019 10:53am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Talking crap again stephie.
      The Leafs on our roads are worn-out Jap imports.
      Prius is a hybrid, not an EV.
      New Hyundai EVs are twice the price of the petrol-powered equivalent.
      Electric cars are unaffordable for the masses.
      
      19 2
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      June 26, 2019 11:18am
    - Tall Man
      
      You got the “prick” right when referring to yourself.
      
      5 1
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      June 26, 2019 12:57pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Learning curves. Without any tech improvement batteries drop 20% in price for every 10x production increase. With current ~500k EV’s per year they cost ~USD$130/kWh to manufacture and so add USD $8-13k to cost of a car. When they dominate the market (100 million cars per year in world) they will add only USD $4-6k to cost of car. Electric drive chains will drop in price similarly, so that in about 10 years EV’s will almost inevitably be cheaper than petrol or diesel powered cars. But on top of that there will be tech improvements with batteries delivering more power to weight (about 7% improvement per year over last decade) that will reduce cost even faster.
  
  EV’s are already cheaper to make in luxury ‘E’ segment of market (7 series/A8/Tesla S-class), and are competitive in 3 series/A4/Model 3 ‘D’ segment. The move to higher volume smaller segments will accelerate as EV production costs reduce further.
  
  3 0
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  June 26, 2019 11:39am
- Jules99
  
  I was watching a doco on Netflix (US) about Bob Lazar, the scientist who claimed to work on UFOs at a government facility, and he described reactor and anti-gravity technology. Electricity is so last year.
  
  2 0
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  June 26, 2019 12:58pm
MCos

“Monthly renewables surpassed coal in the U.S. for the first time ever”
https://twitter.com/russellgold/status/1143636356838645761?s=21

Interesting graph in this tweet
4 1
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June 26, 2019 10:05am
- WaveyDavey
  
  More interesting graphs here though
  
  https://twitter.com/WEAtcdk
  
  Solar a whole 3%
  
  Renewables in the USA includes gas and nuclear not the touchy-feely tree-huggy shite that will never generate enough power reliably
  
  5 1
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  June 26, 2019 10:32am
  - MCos
    
    The point being that coal is on the decline, as it should be.
    
    1 3
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    June 26, 2019 11:09am
    - rangitoto
      
      That’s Donald Trump saving the planet.
      
      3 1
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      June 26, 2019 11:36am
secondcumming

*Apartment Developers* say, “the building is not sinking…..but, moving downwards” BoL!!

https://twitter.com/smh/status/1143625350821416962
6 0
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June 26, 2019 10:09am
kevn

@Tony… hipkins = mess maker. Wait until the Polytech revision is let loose.
13 0
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June 26, 2019 10:10am
BrownSnake

Is well being a code word for

BS

?
3 0
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June 26, 2019 10:15am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Does BrownSnake, when abbreviated, become BS?
  
  12 0
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  June 26, 2019 11:33am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I detect a banality and the boringly predictable among posts on KB these days where there is a struggle to find something cutting edge and worthwhile to comment on.

How to remedy this affliction?
1 35
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June 26, 2019 10:15am
- srylands
  
  You could cut your ears off and eat them and tell us about the experience. That would be cutting edge. 🙂
  
  20 1
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  June 26, 2019 10:23am
- Cobolt24
  
  If you’re that bored, you could always go back and comment on old things, such as when you were away on a little “holiday”
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/03
  and up until the 18th of April
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/04
  
  13 0
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  June 26, 2019 10:43am
- Tall Man
  
  Leave.
  
  4 1
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  June 26, 2019 12:53pm
- Garbageman
  
  How about getting rid of the non contributing planks that infest KB with BS and disrupt threads with banal childish comments but then where would you and MM go to seek the attention you both crave like P addicts
  
  10 0
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  June 26, 2019 1:53pm
rererangihirihiri

$50 fine if you get caught having a lung dart with kids in the vehicle.
None of these vermin will pay the fine…$50 would buy another pack of smokes.
10 1
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June 26, 2019 10:16am
BananaLlama

Why did NZ Labour think there were some 50,000 unemployed builders just sitting around ready to jump at a chance to build housing for the government?
We quite often hear them talk about some dude named Savage, presumably from our Communist past, when it comes to building state housing.
Well my watermelon friends if you go far enough back in time you will start to find that most New Zealanders had experience with carpentry and metal working from a young age so were quite capable of filling various roles within trades.
But then Labour and the Greens decided we didn’t really need tradesmen anymore and sent most of that work offshore. Now you are left holding the can trying to figure out how you can increase housing supply without reducing immigration ….Tough titties for you.
20 2
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June 26, 2019 10:54am
hullkiwi

srylands I’m with you. Coming back to NZ after 25vyears abroad, I didn’t realise how I’ll informed people in this country were. I put it down to the dumbed down media at first, but over the years I’ve come to realise it is much more.

And yes, we see it daily on this blog and others, that is, ill inforformed opinion masquerading/posing as fact with links to dubious content on the web (step forward the usual trolls).

Buy then you look at other aspects of life in NZ, look at some of decisions policies of the politicians and bureaucrats that support them and you realise they don’t have a clue what they are doing either other than “feelz” (step forward Twyford and Kiwibuild as an obvious candidate) and we are meant to suck it up and accept it.

Then you realise people bought into the pipe dreams of people like Ardern/Peters/Twyford. 18 months later we have a fat zero for it and then the same voters start whinging that nothing is being delivered, but they still have faith in Jacinda. Paraphrasing a line from a movie “stupid is as stupid does”.
15 1
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June 26, 2019 11:10am
- Poppa
  
  Well Peters has recently stated that 100,000 will be reached if not more
  
  Goes to show what a complete buffoon he is
  
  11 0
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  June 26, 2019 11:53am
  - Tall Man
    
    I turned Magic off yesterday when he came on. What a rambling waste of space he is.
    
    My tag “what’s in it for wynston” describes the man exactly.
    
    5 0
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    June 26, 2019 12:51pm
lastmanstanding

The COL behaviour as regards KiwiBuild reminds me of the bloke who was Sadams Minister of Information saying that the Iraq Army had repelled the Yanks all the while seeing Yank tanks rumbling past him in the background.
15 0
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June 26, 2019 11:36am
- srylands
  
  Comical Ali
  
  12 0
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  June 26, 2019 11:44am
kowtow

The BBC engaging in social engineering , never!

‘The Archers ‘tricked’ 1950s farmers into modern methods by portraying small farms as ‘backward’, says expert’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/25/archers-tricked-1950s-farmers-modern-methods-portraying-small/
8 0
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June 26, 2019 11:42am
- Jules99
  
  One of the comments: If only they had stopped at updating farm practices.
  
  True
  
  0 0
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  June 26, 2019 12:52pm
GoVege

Yes, krazykiwi, we do so need to be free to express our contempt and hatred for already marginalized sections of society.
2 5
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June 26, 2019 11:47am
- Tall Man
  
  I agree. Freedom of expression is a basic fundamental principle of democracy.
  
  Incitement to commit violence towards another is not.
  
  There is a difference and unfortunately the “woke losers” cannot process that thought.
  
  There is a 17 month old baby in hospital in Auckland after a serious assault. It is baby number 6 with babies 1-5 already in state care. I absolutely hate people that would do this to a child and I hate those who allowed this even more. That is my right.
  
  7 0
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  June 26, 2019 12:46pm
  - GoVege
    
    We have good reason to hate people who beat the cr*p out of little kids and babies.
    We don’t have good reason to hate and vilify other members of society merely on the basis of their sexual orientation.
    
    2 6
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    June 26, 2019 1:42pm
    - alloytoo
      
      There are many things people do without a good reason.
      
      You can’t ban all of them.
      
      3 1
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      June 26, 2019 3:14pm
      - GoVege
        
        That’s right, alloytoo.
        Just the ones that lead to harmless people being harmed/ driven to suicide, etc.
        
        2 0
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        June 26, 2019 8:41pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      But we can make fun of them on the basis of their sexual behaviour. We do all the time for all flavours of heterosexual fetishes, so seems entirely balanced to do it for any and all other sexual behaviour as well. Events like ‘kiwifist’ last year are just begging for it.
      
      3 0
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      June 26, 2019 3:54pm
    - Tall Man
      
      You mean the way the media has vilified the Folau family?
      
      2 2
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      June 26, 2019 4:32pm
toby1845

Oh, the irony. A medical insurance company, whose policy premiums discriminate by gender and age, claims that “There is no place in our society for discrimination of any kind, including on the basis of gender, religious belief, age, race or sexual orientation.”

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/netball/we-do-not-support-maria-folau-s-stance-major-sponsor-hcf-raises-concerns-with-netball-australia-20190625-p52161.html
18 1
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June 26, 2019 12:10pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “But it’s OK when we do it.”
  
  8 0
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  June 26, 2019 1:28pm
Martin Williams

ANZ might not be able to spot its own chief executive ‘mis-characterising’ his business expenses, but it can see a naughty netballer a mile off.

It’s hard not to feel the bank – which sponsors Netball New Zealand (NNZ) – is using Maria Folau as a diversionary tactic, to draw eyes away from its own self-inflicted woes.

This is Key’s work. The man has zero ethics.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/netball/silver-ferns/113787468/silver-fern-shooter-maria-folau-unlucky-scapegoat-for-anz-corporate-troubles
3 25
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June 26, 2019 2:24pm
- Garbageman
  
  Slow clap Martin is that what you require some acknowledgement of your ground breaking investigative work maybe how about a wee pat on the head for finally after 12 long years bringing that nasty man to justice, but you and your weird ilk couldn’t take him down no matter how low you sank your obsession is frankly embarrassing the rest of NZ has moved on to focusing on your corrupt wannabe dictatoress
  
  12 1
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  June 26, 2019 2:41pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  You’re consumed by Key and rabidly jealous that he’s made a much greater success of his life than you have, right Martin?
  Go and see a doctor.
  
  16 2
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  June 26, 2019 3:43pm
Poppa

Stormy waters ahead folks!!

Reserve bank admits growth is slower than predicted, well that is a surprise…not

Most business clients I speak to at present have a reduction in turnover happening. That is less tax for our friend Robbo. I smell trouble balancing the books

The only one good thing about that is, there won’t be any head room to spend up large in election year promises
11 0
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June 26, 2019 2:40pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  That won’t worry the fat controller and his incompetent mates.
  The incoming Govt. will just have to send the bill to the taxpayers.
  
  2 0
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  June 26, 2019 9:11pm
Wired-one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/9373135/google-exec-secretly-recorded-stop-trump-election-2020/amp/

Many of us already knew this was the case, but alas it’s still pretty frightening considering the power and persuasion the large social media sites hold.
7 0
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June 26, 2019 4:35pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ok, so it’s Project Veritas and reported by the Sun. Sounds legit.
  
  1 5
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  June 26, 2019 5:21pm
  - Wired-one
    
    It’s on the BBC, CNN, FOX, ABC, SKY NEWS, come on, wake up.
    
    3 1
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    June 26, 2019 8:07pm
- stephieboy
  
  “Google exec has been secretly recorded appearing to suggest the search giant will try …”
  
  Note” appearing”!
  
  The Penny has dropped. Project Veritas equals James O’Keeffe,
  
  https://www.thedailybeast.com/googler-caught-in-james-okeefe-sting-project-veritas-selectively-edited-my-words
  
  LOL
  
  2 10
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  June 26, 2019 6:13pm

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