General Debate 22 March 2019

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Andrew Davies

A memo to all and sundry, especially various politicians and pundits (you know who you are);

As far as we know ALL THE NEW ZEALANDERS INVOLVED IN THAT DESPICABLE ACT WERE VICTIMS.

Please remember that whenever you are tempted to bad mouth and demonise your fellow citizens.
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March 22, 2019 8:00am
- Wangas Feral
  
  I heard on the grapevine that two of the victims of the terror attack were on the terrorist watch list. Rumour from a cop at drinks last night.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:18am
  - freethinker
    
    A friend told me the Murder Charge actually related to a person that is still alive, if this is true it does little to inspire confidence in Police management. Can anyone confirm or refute this?
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:30am
    - cmm
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111458419/christchurch-mosques-gunman-mistakenly-charged-with-shooting-live-person
      
      You can expect a lot of confusion in the early days of an investigation, but getting a charge like this wrong is a bit Keystone Cops. Not their finest action.
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:01pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    So the terrorist was not on the watch list but 2 of his victims may have been according to a rumour – well that’s a start.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:43am
  - David Garrett
    
    Wangas: It is vital to establish whether this just unsubstantiated scuttlebutt or is correct…If it is correct it rather neatly illustrates my oft made point that it is difficult or impossible to distinguish between the harmless and the dangerous.
    
    I shouldn’t have to add, but I feel I must…I utterly condemn any terrorist action against civilians, including this one…regardless of whether this rumour is correct or not.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:32am
    - SGA
      
      And even if it is true then what do we make of it? For we all we know, the intelligence agencies are scouring Whale Oil and Kiwiblog compiling such watch lists right now (may have already). Moreover, just as in medical screening, there will be false positives and false negatives. And, just as in medical screening, it will be considered better to have false positives than false negatives (so there will be a bias that way).
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:58am
    - cmm
      
      Not necessarily related to anyone currently at the mosque, but there’s some history:
      
      http://sheikyermami.com/2019/03/christchurch-al-noor-mosque-produced-at-least-two-al-qaida-terrorists/
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:09pm
    - Wangas Feral
      
      How would we ever know DG? I suspect that information will be neither confirmed nor denied by the powers that be.
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:41pm
- KiWombat
  
  Oh well that makes us all feel a whole lot better then.
  
  From what I have seen, the perp was not a New Zealander, and most of the victims whose names were released do not appear to be New Zealanders either. Pleased you have cleared that up !
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:28am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How can you tell from someone’s name that he or she is not a New Zealander?
    
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    March 22, 2019 8:29am
    - harvey wilson
      
      Ask the Labour Party, Chinese sounding names mean you aren’t a kiwi apparently
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:39am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Channeling Phil Twyford, perhaps?
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:39am
    - KiWombat
      
      Without going into detail, just read the list Mickey. I can see 8 nationalities (1 is NZ)
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:57am
      - Tall Man
        
        Slapped mikey…
        
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        March 22, 2019 10:20am
    - Boris Piscina
      
      It’s not from the name, it’s because in most cases the nationality was given if the person wasn’t a New Zealander.
      
      And Andrew Davies’ post referred to all the New Zealanders involved being victims, not all the victims being New Zealanders.
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:57am
      - Andrew Davies
        
        Correct Boris and I was very careful to make that distinction. I was also careful to acknowledge that no other Kiwis were involved that we know of. Of course that could change.
        
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        March 22, 2019 10:51am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      Well for a lot of the victims the list said [name] followed by [nationality]. So that is one way of knowing that many of the victims were not NZ citizens or residents.
      
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      March 22, 2019 9:12am
  - Andrew Davies
    
    KiWombat
    Are you saying what I said above is not true?
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:46am
    - KiWombat
      
      No – what I am saying is that there were very few New Zealanders involved in the event.
      
      There were, however, a great many more New Zealanders who were affected by it, and more again who responded to the calls for assistance !
      
      New Zealand just happened to be the venue. The event was perpetrated by a foreigner against (largely) other foreigners. New Zealand has to wear the kudos, and clean up the mess.
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:49am
      - Andrew Davies
        
        I fully agree with all of that KW.
        
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        March 22, 2019 11:45am
Yvette

Brian Tamaki is probably half right – Ardern has perhaps over-stepped her role.

The “call to prayer” is not said in English, but Arabic. An English translation is –

“Allah is Most Great.
I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.
Come to prayer.
Come to success.
Allah is most great.
There is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.”

So the phrase that offends Brian is not said once, but twice, which is why Brian is half right.

I will readily observe a silence in respect and compassion, for those killed and injured in Christchurch

But, as “none except Allah” does not tolerate the concept of Jesus’ divinity, or any other religion, I will pass on the call to prayer.
Or more exactly: because Allah is still represented as desiring world domination by Islam – and that has not changed – it may perturb some people.

“In the practice of tolerance, one’s enemy is the best teacher.” ― Dalai Lama
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March 22, 2019 8:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  In the spirit of tolerance, I think even atheists like myself can observe respect at appropriate times for people of faith, irrespective of petty differences in the worship of deities.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:31am
  - harvey wilson
    
    I don’t know if there’s a god or not but I think that taking two minutes out of your life to remember the victims isn’t a lot to ask .
    
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    March 22, 2019 8:47am
    - Sacha
      
      I’ve been remembering the victims all week –
      
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      March 22, 2019 9:35am
  - Andrew Worth
    
    I’ll go in to bat against anti-Muslim fanatics or other hatemongers whenever I have time, but I agree with Tamaki’s sentiment that people of one religion shouldn’t pretend for a day that they’re members of another religion, even to express solidarity.
    
    This whole situation is turning into a populist bandwagon, and is starting to look self-serving of those driving the band wagon. Rather than a genuine act of support for the bereaved.
    
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    March 22, 2019 8:57am
    - SGA
      
      I agree with Tamaki’s sentiment that people of one religion shouldn’t pretend for a day that they’re members of another religion, even to express solidarity.
      
      I don’t think that people are pretending to be members of a religion. There is nothing un-Christian about wearing a scarf as a sign of solidarity or respect, for example. Heavens, some Christian sects still promote headcovering by women (I assume that’s what’s going on at Gloriaville, or whatever it is called) and it wasn’t that long ago that women wore hats to church. Nuns cover their heads.
      
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      March 22, 2019 9:46am
      - Tall Man
        
        And yet…
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98742522/parliament-prayer-changes–no-more-queen-or-jesus
        
        Hypocrisy in my mind.
        
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        March 22, 2019 10:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    One of your better comments Mike. Dunno why you got so many downticks for that. Maybe you just piss people off?
    
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    March 22, 2019 3:53pm
  - Scott Chris
    
    Maybe it’s easier for an agnostic like me than it is for a Christian to compromise his fundamental beliefs. I distrust and dislike Brian Tamaki but maybe he has a point.
    
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    March 22, 2019 7:06pm
- wreck1080
  
  Why must one be dress like or imitate the Muslim religion to show compassion for the victims? The core tenant of Christianity is that there is only one god and muslims asking christians to say otherwise is misguided, perhaps unintentionally though.
  
  I was bought up an atheist but on Christian values. I disagree with many core Muslim values, such as the lower status and rights of women.
  
  So, Tamaki is right…. except Jesus is not god, where did that come from.
  
  But, I am still very sorrowful for what happened to those 50 people.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:37am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Thank you, wreck, you’re right. Btw though, it’s ‘tenet’, not ‘tenant’.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:33am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Eva herd of auto-correct? ?
      
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      March 22, 2019 1:04pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Oh yes, sorry if that was all :).
        
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        March 22, 2019 1:51pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    And someone should tell Amanda Gillies that wearing a headscarf today is not meant to be a fashion statement over bouffant hair.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:33am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Maybe it’s her way of not making it an oppressive ‘modesty’ veil.
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:06am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Or a look at meism.
        
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        March 22, 2019 10:26am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    50 plus, not just the dead, there are many wounded.
    
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    March 22, 2019 5:34pm
- Andrei
  
  Allah is in fact the Arabic word for God – a fact that has caused issues in some Muslim countries when translating the Christian Holy Scriptures into Arabic
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:56am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Islam. The religion of all tolerance.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:14am
- Classic Liberal
  
  A prayer you don’t believe is a false vow, very bad indeed. Even as an atheist, this goes against my morals.
  
  Two minutes of silence are a much better idea.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:31am
  - SGA
    
    Then don’t pray. If I find myself at a wedding, funeral, baptism, ANZAC service, or even at Christian friends’ places who insist on saying Grace, I maintain a respectful silence until they are finished.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:03am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      SGA, yes, that’s what I do. How is that unclear in my statement? I was responding, specifically, to this ‘call for prayer’.
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:16am
      - SGA
        
        What do you think listening to the Muslim call for prayer is going to do you? Do you think you have to join in or something? It’s used to tell the faithful to pray, much like church bells are a call to worship (or for prayer). I really can’t understand your problem.
        
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        March 22, 2019 2:16pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I don’t think there is any suggestion non-Muslims should actually say the prayer. The idea is to stand silently with Muslims while they pray.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:06am
    - sooty
      
      Why should they get 2min and the ANZAC get 1min?
      Are they more important now, have bent over?
      
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      March 22, 2019 11:44am
    - DigNap15
      
      Why?
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:13pm
- Kevin Herlihy
  
  Compassion is a fundamental Christian value, Tamaki should be aware of that.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:39am
Mr_Blobby

ISIS leader Abu Hassan al-Muhajir calls for revenge

Quick disarm before he gets here.
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March 22, 2019 8:09am
Tarquin North

Big day today. We reach peak virtue signaling, peak appeasement, women are going to dress differently, we will be called to prayer by a religion most of us know nothing about and want nothing to do with. Thanks Jacinda I thought we lived in a secular country but you have sold us out for political points and a few feelz. This is probably the only time I will agree with Brian Tamaki. I was going to post what he said on newshub but it seems to have vanished. I wonder why?
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March 22, 2019 8:10am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

2 minutes silence today – fair enough. Just remember 2 minutes silence next week on ANZAC Day instead of the usual 1 minute for the Fallen
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March 22, 2019 8:12am
- sooty
  
  We shall remember them!
  No nutters to attend, please!
  Edit
  I think it is April25 after easter, month early.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Anzac Day is not next week.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Correct Mike. I am one month out. Please forgive me
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:07am
- Steve Todd
  
  Oh, Steve, that is just nonsense.
  
  We have acknowledged the sacrifice of those who fell for us, with a minute’s silence, every year for the last one hundred years, and will continue to do so until sufficient time has passed whereby continuing to do so is no longer meaningful for us – but probably for the rest of this century. (In this regard, do the British, for example, today, observe a minute’s silence for those who fell at Waterloo, or in the Crimea? I suspect not.)
  
  This afternoon, those who choose to participate, will observe a national, one-off, two-minute’s silence to acknowledge, show respect for, and to remember the victims of last Friday’s atrocities. It will not be repeated in future years – although, obviously, future anniversaries of the tragedy will be acknowledged.
  
  To suggest that, somehow, this afternoon’s participants will be showing more respect for last Friday’s victims than we do for our war dead, tells me a great deal about you, all of which I don’t like.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I don’t care what you don’t like. It is my opinion
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:08am
    - Steve Todd
      
      “It is my opinion[.]”
      
      Yes, it is, and all I have done is point out that it is not a very well-thought-out opinion.
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:44pm
  - snowy
    
    you’re not a school teacher by any chance?
    
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    March 22, 2019 12:43pm
  - MH
    
    Anzac Day is for all war dead, WWI and II, Viet-nam the Falklands, the Crimea, NZ so called land wars every one of them and include Allies and enemies,ie we don’t expect Italian representatives to attend WWI commemorations but have to leave their seats for WWII.
    
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    March 22, 2019 12:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ANZAC is next month. I had a senior moment?? Thanks Mike
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:23am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    It is all of this talk about Turkey and Gallipoli bringing it to the forefront.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:37am
Dafixeruppa

Firstly I absolutely abhor what that cowardly scum did. I may disagree with religion, but I absolutely support their right to safety and life.
Saying that, some of the reactions and responses have been disappointing and somewhat confusing add to the way.
This article from a young Muslim woman in stuff, sums up a piece of it.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111473440/headscarves-movement-means-well-but-it-is-cheap-tokenism
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March 22, 2019 8:15am
- lastmanstanding
  
  What a great post really sticks it to the self loathing virtue signalling Lefties.
  
  Its all about them and the feelz. Such shallow self interested self centred morons that they all are.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:18am
  - backster
    
    Makes me ashamed of my white supremacy too.
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:46am
- Classic Liberal
  
  It’s not just tokenism. It overlooks the fact that many muslim women don’t want to wear hijab. It’s buying into the concept that oppressive theocratic regimes push: women should cover their heads. Insulting to men too: ‘unable to control themselves’.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:21am
- Tall Man
  
  My wife read that to me as it revealed what most of us already know but the lefty pressure forbids us from saying it.
  
  My son worked in Bangladesh a few times over the past year. Despite being virtually 100% muslim, he did not see a single local wearing the full gear.
  
  My understanding was that it was a middle eastern job therefore Bedouin tradition. Having been in a sandstorm I can see the desire to wear a tent over your head just so you could breath. As Bedouin are of the desert I think they may have mastered how to survive there.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:15am
- alloytoo
  
  But “Cheap Tokenism” is what our PM does best.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:22am
- ex-golfer
  
  Agreed.
  I find this whole “don a headscarf” thing quite ridiculous and it seems to be promoted by virtue signallers that are quite ignorant of how sexist the move is.
  Will these same women also be giving up their drivers licenses and not walking down the street without a male escort? Supporting the execution of their homosexual friends?
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:35am
- Jules99
  
  She’s right, except that white Poms also get told to go back to where they came from.
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:52pm
waikatogirl

Lest we forget.
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March 22, 2019 8:15am
Luke Piewalker

Ztev kicked off for a year.
Much appreciated DPF
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March 22, 2019 8:18am
- harvey wilson
  
  Thank Christ for that , he was still lying about Chris Bishop as recently as last week.
  
  Is Muttonbird gone too ? If so that would make the fourth chat forum I know of that banned the hateful lunatic.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:35am
  - Tall Man
    
    I don’t think so but he has been very vocally anti David Farrar and KiwiBlog over recent days on another blog.
    
    The extra anti right activity over at the standard has probably pushed him into sensory overload.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:10am
- Tarquin North
  
  Best news I’ve heard today.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:41am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    And it is not even morning tea! ?
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:10am
  - sooty
    
    Can we have a two minute silence for ztev?
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      How about 12 months silence instead?
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:10am
      - Poppa
        
        Ztev must be getting quite used to his little naughty corner
        
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        March 22, 2019 10:21am
- BassilFawlty
  
  Finally, some good news.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:49am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Good to see that there are still at least 67 people here.
  
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  March 22, 2019 5:39pm
secondcumming

With the government *buy-back scheme* for firearms, I wonder how they will treat those with a ‘C’ license endorsement?

What about if someone had recently purchased something like a *WW2 Luger P08 Artillery Pistol* with all accessories in mint condition, and may have paid say in excess of $10k at auction for such a rare collectable. Would they be entitled to *full compensation* on surrender of the weapon?

Asking for a friend.
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March 22, 2019 8:18am
- SGA
  
  I assumed the “buy back scheme” would be for weapons that the owner could no longer legally own on their current license after the law was changed. If so, would that apply to your friend?
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    Pretty much all MSSA fire arms, although the bulk of centre fire semi automatics can be converted for minimal cost by an engineer into what ever MSSA the owner wants.
    
    I’ll not post the sites but there are many.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:08am
  - secondcumming
    
    He’s hoping that will be the case. As he was saying, ” fully-auto 9mm Machine Pistols with a 32-rnd drum mag and detachable stock are like hens teeth these days. Would be a crying shame if such a rare piece needed to be destroyed”.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:13am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Yes, ridiculous for some to say that no-one should have more than two guns.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:35am
  - sooty
    
    But they are happy having a mobile phone and a tablet,pc, or laptop. Different role for each type!
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I guess the warped thinking is you only have two hands, so why more than two guns?
    Serious, there are people who think like that.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:07pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Museums exempt?
    
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    March 22, 2019 5:41pm
- freethinker
  
  If semi automatics are defined as only being useful for killing people then the Police shouldl not have any, only the Military. If police are exempted an explanation acceptable to the majority of the public is required.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:36am
  - SGA
    
    Because the police are put into situations where the use of such deadly force may be necessary for the public good. In such situations, I have no problem with the police being better armed than the person(s) they are facing.
    Is that an acceptable explanation?
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:09am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I was talking with a senior Police officer 4 days after the attack, he stated that Police could not control the guns they had. If Police were armed he would leave the Police as he did not feel safe.
    
    When I asked what brought this on, his reply was that is his area alone, they had several accidental discharges.
    
    They would never ever publicly acknowledge it, but it does beg the question, how many accidental discharges of Police weapons were there in the days following the attack?
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:25am
- GJM
  
  What of those who have E cat licence already, so have been heavily vetted, security, etc and followed the rules? I collect military small arms 1939 to 1975 or so. Many are semi auto, being the major technological change in that period from prewar. E cat meant I could own them unmolested and still shoot in service rifle matches at the local range. Collectors C cat guns cannot be fired.
  
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  March 23, 2019 6:58am
Tempist

On the way to work I saw three women who’d decided to wear a headscarf today – even if you think it’s empty virtue signalling nonesense, it’s nice that they live in a country and a political culture where they can choose to wear whatever they want to express themselves
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March 22, 2019 8:20am
- All_on_Red
  
  Even better, I think it’s nice to live in a country where they can choose to take it off without being arrested.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:40am
  - Tempist
    
    My point exactly…
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:04am
    - Tall Man
      
      You need to make your points more clearly.
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:03am
      - sooty
        
        Sharp and to the point!
        
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        March 22, 2019 11:50am
      - Tempist
        
        Fair point
        
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        March 22, 2019 11:53am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    To many women living under compulsory hijab (made so by government, community or families) it remains a sign of the oppression of women. There are better ways to show one’s solidarity with moderate muslims.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:08am
Stars And Stripes

After a week of non stop calls for unity and for racism to not be tolerated in society the Herald starts exactly where it left off and prints two articles today couched in race based language but I guess because they only mention white people instead of black or yellow or whatever it’s perfectly acceptable and not inconsistent or hypocritical.
The first is a guy self flagellating about white privilege:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214839
The next another guy trying to explain why “white Christian men” are largely responsible for terrorism and Muslims are victims:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214839

Mind you would I really expect anything different in this current climate of silliness and hypocrisy when the PM has been the biggest pusher of the “we are one” and there is “no place for hate in this country” message while at the same time having Peters as her Deputy PM who has been one of New Zealand’s biggest race baiters and agitators for over a decade or more.
Sorry media and politicians but you are as much to blame as the man on the street so maybe it’s time to stop all the self righteous nonsense and own up to your own shortcomings instead of lecturing everyone else.
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March 22, 2019 8:22am
- gravedodger
  
  “for a decade or more”
  Make that over forty years, whenever the xenophobic racially divisive little twerp deemed such racist talk to be to his immediate advantage.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:22am
- Tall Man
  
  “Sorry media and politicians but you are as much to blame as the man on the street so maybe it’s time to stop all the self righteous nonsense and own up to your own shortcomings instead of lecturing everyone else”
  
  Sorry but I strongly disagree. They are vastly more to blame. The last election featured more anti immigration, Chinese bashing and even muslim baiting than any election I have ever witnessed.
  
  Rob Muldoon’s “reds under the beds” campaign was kindy stuff compared to the rhetoric and even “bottom line” policies of the “what’s in it for wynston” party.
  
  labour also continually pushed the “too many immigrants” rhetoric and were very silent about refugees while campaigning.
  
  Blaming immigrants for housing shortages, hospital wait times and ED ward overloads were all grist for the opposition parties in 2017.
  
  Guilt is what is driving ardern the liar and the rest of the pathetic sycophants that will all turn muslim for a moment or two today.
  
  If you are one if those today, please think, just for a moment, of the over 600 New Zealanders that died from their own hands over the past year and reflect on what ardern the liar has done to reduce that, despite it being one of her main cries…..that’s right
  
  Nothing.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:02am
Happychappy

Oh what will Winston do as NZ and the World come to terms with the deaths from the ChristChurch terrorist attack as Jacinda has taken his roll as the Messiah with all the hype on her Leadership and compassion to the victims. I’m betting that the scourge on NZ Politics won’t be all that happy as Jacinda and Labour forge ahead with policy as she is now in the box seat to say no to his policy and could easily go to the polls tomorrow and rule with the Greens with a reasonable majority. Fun and games ahead and National need to turn the conversation back to policy and politics.
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March 22, 2019 8:22am
- Tall Man
  
  Downticked for your pessimism ;(
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:53am
- kloyd0306
  
  Shallow thinkers may give the PM and Labour a bounce in polling but in reality, apart from empathy, the first action of this government is to penalise law abiding citizens.
  
  National has done nothing to lose support.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:36am
- Paulus
  
  Is this before her nomination to receive the Nobel Prize – after all Obama did !
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:02am
- Liberty
  
  Dear Leader has just had a week in the sun.
  Reality will return soon.
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:50am
harvey wilson

Ok so far we have a few people still leading the charge for taking maximum advantage of the massacre

Golly G – narcissistic attention seeking, get those selfies and tweets out .

Marama Davidson- race baiting

Russell Brown – attention seeking

Brodie Kane attention seeking , count the amount of times she uses the word “ I “ in this self flagellating piece

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12215073

New catagory , abject idiocy

Step right up Whitcoulls , banning 12 rules for life but leaving Mein Kampf on your shelves.
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March 22, 2019 8:24am
- oldgolfer
  
  I forced myself to read Ms Kane’s words, now I don’t feel so well.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:54am
  - harvey wilson
    
    Kane’s piece was almost as bad as Golly Gs twitter feed in its humble bragging and self aggrandising.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:06am
- Sacha
  
  12 Rules For Life is much more readable and entertaining than Main Kampf, and I suggest that if many NZers read it, it would make our citizens even more Kind and Caring than we are told we are now.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:46am
  - Jules99
    
    I recall ordering it from Auckland library when it first came out and there were 400 wait listed. Very heartening.
    
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    March 22, 2019 2:56pm
- V
  
  Yes, I won’t be purchasing from this organisation ever again. What next a book burning?
  Especially considering the other literature they have kept on the shelves of ideologies responsible for the deaths of millions. They are a total joke.
  
  Not to be outdone I see the gangs are in on the virtue seeking. Now prepared to stand watch over the mosques as security. You know the same gangs who peddle drugs, intimidation, and violence – responsible for the destruction of the lives of thousands in this country.
  
  Words fail me.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:09am
-D

The Whitcoulls’ ban of Jordan Peterson’s book is an ignorant knee-jerk reaction. Their executives need to be alerted to the folly of this misguided, albeit attention-getting, move.

Their contact link is https://www.whitcoulls.co.nz/contact-us
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March 22, 2019 8:25am
- harvey wilson
  
  12 rules doesn’t mention the word Islam and uses the word Muslim once.
  
  I’d like to know what’s behind this , I suspect that photo with the proud islamophobe t shirt is behind it .
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:37am
  - artemisia
    
    Will we see others sacked if, for example, there is a lovely photo of them with a convicted genocide perp. I guess they will be OK as long as they don’t write a book about something completely different.
    
    But Whitcoulls will be watching. Surely.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:13am
    - CHFR1
      
      Duly sent a message and included these words below from the book. I may be a small customer but they will not see a penny more from me.
      
      Life is suffering
      Love is the desire to see unnecessary suffering ameliorated
      Truth is the handmaiden of love
      Dialogue is the pathway to truth
      Humility is recognition of personal insufficiency and the willingness to learn
      To learn is to die voluntarily and be born again, in great ways and small
      So speech must be untrammeled
      So that dialogue can take place
      So that we can all humbly learn
      So that truth can serve love
      So that suffering can be ameliorated
      So that we can all stumble forward to the Kingdom of God
      
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      March 22, 2019 11:42am
- Inandout
  
  -D, I am taking the strongest stand a consumer can do, and that is never to darken their doors again. I am from today an online purchaser.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:43am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Mighty Ape is your saviour!
    
    All the titles at a smaller cost followed by unlimited further offers of other titles in your inbox for just about forever!
    
    15 0
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    March 22, 2019 9:16am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    Ditto. I buy a couple of books a month there. No longer.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:19am
  - MickMac
    
    In and Out
    11:34
    Please remember, never is a long time!
    Don’t make a vow you might break in the future..
    4 You will be held accountable in the karma world 🙂
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:36am
  - Bell-47
    
    I concur. Voting with ones feet (or fingers in todays age). Amazon will now be my first choice. As an aside, perhaps they should take all Salman Rushdie books off the shel also? There is at least 1 title they are selling. Those of a certain age group will remember well the international furore Rushdie created with his book “The Satanic Verses”. Whitcoulls need to be consistent if their intention is to err on the side of virtue.
    
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    March 22, 2019 1:38pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  do they sell Rushdy’s book.
  The Satanic verses?
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:44am
  - MH
    
    No, but most staff refer you to a music rec0rd shop
    
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    March 22, 2019 12:55pm
    - Bell-47
      
      They do sell another title by him, “Midnights Children”. So, as I mentioned, for constancy, they should be taking them off the shelf also, but where do they stop? The genie is out of the bottle now.
      
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      March 22, 2019 2:10pm
  - MH
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Stevens%27_comments_about_Salman_Rushdie
    And all good record stores (are there such animals left?) are gonna chuck out music from Yusuf Islam (aka cat Stevens) and his song I’m gonna get me a gun….maybe Dot Com will delete him.
    
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    March 22, 2019 1:46pm
- Lance
  
  Who buys anything from Whitcoulls anymore?
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:02am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    I supported them with my business because they were a local bricks and mortar store. No longer. I can get the same stuff cheaper from online sources anyway.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:20am
- V
  
  People should pull their corporate accounts too.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:12am
- David Garrett
  
  D- thanks for that link…I have sent my very clear message, and urge others to do the same…it only takes a minute.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:47am
- Paulus
  
  Isn’t Whitcoulls in the North Shore Pascoe Group with Farmers the lead company ?
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:04am
unaha-closp

In the aftermath our anti-immigration Left had a problem – all those anti-immigration BS and lies that the Left had been endlessly spouting, Our anti-immigration Left needed to find scapegoats.

Currently our anti-immigrant Left has Whitcoulls banning a self-help author from Canada. Does this strike anyone else as particularly weird?
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March 22, 2019 8:26am
- waikatogirl
  
  Jordan Peterson has a huge world-wide following who are all going to believe NZ has lost its head in banning a very popular personal growth book.
  Talk about a show of ignorance and intolerance by Whitcoulls.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:45am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Is it even virtue signalling?
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:14am
  - unaha-closp
    
    In comparison to Jordan Peterson, here is Duncan Garner an author and commentator who is widely respected in the NZ writing on the subject of too many foreigners and blaming their presence for pretty much everything:
    
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/97625919/duncan-garner-dear-nz-how-do-we-want-to-look-in-20-years
    
    He was on TV this morning, wasn’t he?
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:54am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Widely respected?
      
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      March 22, 2019 5:46pm
  - MickMac
    
    I’ve read the book and given it away as a gift.
    Well written and thoughtful.
    I found myself reflecting and revising some of my life and thinking.
    Worth reading in a book club or some such.
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:38am
  - alloytoo
    
    Jordan is of course pale and male, this is sexism and racism rolled into one.
    
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    March 22, 2019 12:35pm
sooty

You had better watch out if you are a Labour minister, Hooton says that she has growing some balls and is going to deal to you!
Oh dear, who will rise to the top of the puddle?
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March 22, 2019 8:27am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Just a personal observation, but I think the job is aging her prematurely, noticed the same thing with John Key.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:03am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Perhaps she’s not our “laziest prime minister ever”, after all.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:24am
  - Tall Man
    
    Imagine having to ask “what’s in for wynston” for permission to speak, it would turn most of us grey because half the time when he has finished speaking you have no idea what he just said…… and neither does he.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:50am
  - Sacha
    
    She’s been in the job 18 months. I thought John Key started to look noticeably jaded at about the 6th year, but he perked up again after a holiday break.
    It’s not a job for the physically fragile.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:51am
    - artemisia
      
      Not for the intellectually or mentally fragile either. Which is a concern.
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:19am
    - David Garrett
      
      Sacha. Indeed it’s not..Through Rodney’s interactions with him, I had some understanding of the demands on Key. He would be at the Beehive by 6.30 or 7am, and usually still there after 11 at night. Every day the House sat he had to be at Question Time, primed and ready to parry totally unknown supplementary questions designed to make a fool of him. And between times he had to meet foreign leaders, respond to journos – also trying to make a fool of him – open new facilities at schools and the myriad other tasks a PM has to do on daily basis all over the country.
      
      Obviously the workload was a little less on weekends, but only a little – lots of parades and festivals celebrating this or that to attend. If you look at pics of him from 2008 and compare them with those taken a few months before he retired, he’s aged probably 15 or 20 years.
      
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      March 22, 2019 10:56am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Scum rises to the top of a puddle in my experience
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:17am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Water Day to you all!
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March 22, 2019 8:28am
- SGA
  
  Drip.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:57am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Oceans of the world unite!
  
  6 0
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  March 22, 2019 9:17am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Hopefully not by flood.
    
    2 0
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    March 22, 2019 2:05pm
- mandk
  
  Except if you live in Venezuela and can’t get water for your family because of Maduro.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:55am
Crisplion

Fellow KBers,

I note that Whitcoulls have banned Jordan Peterson’s book from its shelves on the basis of some spurious connection to the Christchurch massacre:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2019/03/jordan-peterson-s-12-rules-for-life-removed-from-whitcoulls-following-christchurch-terror-attack.html

This seems an especially ironic move in light of the fact that few have a greater knowledge of the psychology of killers like the Christchurch terrorist – and more success in turning around young men on that path – than Dr Peterson.

As a private company, Whitcoulls may, of course, do as it wishes in terms of the books it chooses to sell. By the same token, we as consumers of books are free to choose not to give them our patronage. I invite you all to join me in a boycott of Whitcoulls and to let them know the reason for it.
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March 22, 2019 8:28am
- srylands
  
  I don’t know how they stay in business with The Book Depository on the scene.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:39am
  - artemisia
    
    Whitcoulls are pretty much a gift shop now. Still a few books and mags here and there.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:15am
    - srylands
      
      So how does that business generate enough revenue to pay the rent on a very large store in Lambton Quay in Wellington?
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:14pm
  - sooty
    
    Toys and other stuff!
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    I sure more will be looking that way now.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:48am
  - Paulus
    
    Book Depository are actually Amazon.
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:06am
    - artemisia
      
      Owned by Amazon now but different business model. Book Depository offers free global postage. Very significant for New Zealand, an expensive place to ship to.
      
      Plus not all Amazon items are available to ship to NZ anyway, hence the rise of reshippers like YouShop.
      
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      March 22, 2019 2:53pm
- ldypen
  
  Yep, I have sent them a message on their contact page.. I wonder if they will require their staff to burn these books by candle light while chanting versus from the approved book “Mein Kampf”?
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:56am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Thanks srylands. I recently ordered from Whitcoulls to try and support NZ business, but won’t now that they are Bookburning Whitcoulls.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:41am
- tf78
  
  Mighty Ape is great.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:59am
Maggie Pie

Will we see this happening here with our msm?

BBC NEWS: ‘Italian’ driver hijacks and torches school bus full of children…
ACTUAL NEWS: ‘Senegalese migrant’ takes 51 kids hostage, ties them up and tellz them he would douse them with fuel and set them alight to punish then for italy’s migrant policy.. 🙁

https://twitter.com/KTHopkins/status/11087668852199002112
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March 22, 2019 8:30am
Sir Leslie Bottocks

yup I’ve no time for this self flagellating BS, enjoying the U.S. Chess Championships right now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAeKjJlM8Qs&feature=push-lsb&attr_tag=2lvmDMU6EY1J847o%3A6
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March 22, 2019 8:37am
- Tall Man
  
  And I enjoyed remaking a piece of skirting board four time before I finally ripped it out and gave up more than this self flagellation.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:47am
- rangitoto
  
  Do they allow Alpha Zero to compete?
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:06am
Maggy Wassilieff

Mongrel Mobsters are to stop using Sieg Heil as their greeting
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111473946/christchurch-shootings-mongrel-mob-kingdom-severs-nazi-ties

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4569319/Sieg-heil-a-way-of-saying-hi-to-the-bros

I usually just say Good Morning to the blokes down the road…
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March 22, 2019 8:39am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Well that can’t be a bad thing, lots of tearing off of badges and patches with symbolism too I imagine.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:39am
  - David Garrett
    
    Rachael: It is no more than window dressing,…the first stirrings of a smartening up that the Hell’s Angels started 25 years ago…helps keeps the heat and attention off the criminal activities which is the raison d’etre of ALL gangs.
    
    And on one level it’s quite funny: the Nazi’s racial/religious enemies were of course the Jews not the Muslims…My point is that “Seig heil” was and is primarily offensive to Jews – and those of our parents’ generation who fought Adolf, who was always on rather good terms with senior Muslim leaders, who had similar ideas to him.
    
    Google “Grand Mufti of Jerusalem” and have a look at the activities of the incumbent during WW II, one Amin al-Husseini
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:09am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Of course it is window dressing, virtue signalling from a gang, how huge is the irony.
      
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      March 22, 2019 2:08pm
    - Jules99
      
      My first thought was, crime links between the two ‘communities’. Human trafficking is a potential.
      
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      March 22, 2019 3:03pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  But it’s OK if they do it because of their melanin levels? The Left’s identity politics make it all about melanin levels – just the same as white supremacists.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:44am
- Tall Man
  
  Maybe discounted dope for a week and a reduction of 10% in interest collections?
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:46am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Perhaps they have their eye on the Kat market.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:51pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Naughty.
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:40pm
Poppa

If we think politics in NZ is in a bad way, just have a look at the goings on over Brexit. What a shambles that is!

It will be fascinating to watch over the next week or two to see if they can agree on changes to the deal to enable them to leave with a deal at all. Otherwise they will need to leave without a deal.

Despite what they might personally believe in they need to carry out the wishes of the people, but I am not so sure they understand that
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March 22, 2019 8:42am
- Evadne
  
  That said, leaving with ‘no deal’ is much better than leaving with a bad deal.
  
  It’s like divorcing with no settlement arranged, rather than a settlement that ties one party up indefinitely. With no settlement, they can still get together to talk about things later.
  
  The mess they’re in at the moment is not Brexit, it’s the way all the politicians are behaving, more interested in their own short-term agendas than working together to forge what’s best for the country’s future.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:05am
  - Tall Man
    
    “short term agendas”…..
    
    No surprises there.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There could be no “deal”. There was an agreement to join which governs all. The EU don’t like Britain withdrawing and are just going through the formalities. Why should the Brits expect more than what they signed up for?
  Goodwill and tolerance go a long way. Both sides need border control, transport and trade facilities. I expect these will quickly appear. Minor chaos for a few weeks and a few extended problems, but any break involved that.
  
  I don’t understand how the British public could expect anything else in their escape from the clutches of the European Parliament.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:58am
  - Ross12
    
    I think it is a mixture of May incompetence, interfering/ significant impact of UK pro EU bureaucrats and major arrogance on the part of the EU elite. All a good mixture for getting no where.
    
    I am sure a “no deal” will occur when the Withdrawal Act 2018 comes into play on March 29 –I do not think either the UK or the EU will be able to act quick enough to avoid it.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:48am
secondcumming

From the *Sydney Morning Herald*

You have to wonder how this *far-right extremist* managed to walk free from court without prosecution…just have a listen to the threatening voicemail recordings!

*All that it takes for evil to prevail is for the [police] to do nothing*

https://twitter.com/smh/status/1108489387766095880
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March 22, 2019 8:46am
- Tall Man
  
  Couldn’t get it to play…too much protection on my laptop.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:43am
Odakyu-sen

A Muslim call to prayer.

Are we all Muslims now?
(It’s a tricky one.)

On one hand, solidarity is important.
On the other, respect for the religion of your ancestors is also important.

People should decide what is appropriate for them.
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March 22, 2019 8:52am
- SGA
  
  For myself, I don’t get my non-religious knickers in a twist singing our National Anthem/Hymn. I gustily sing Christmas Carols off key, I’ve attended various Christian and Jewish events and stood and listened respectively. In the right mood, I listen to Gregorian chant for pleasure (I find it relaxing). So, speaking for myself, I don’t mind.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:07am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Singing is a completely different thing: we quote the composer/poet. That doesn’t mean we agree with their statements.
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:11am
    - SGA
      
      And no one is asking you to agree with the Muslim call to prayer. No one is even asking you to chant along. Listening to a Muslim call to prayer makes you no more a Muslim than listening to the Christian call to prayer/worship (those church bells on a Sunday morning) makes you a Christian.
      
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      March 22, 2019 11:31am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        OK SGA, if that’s all it is. It sounded like much more in Yvette’s comment re passing on a ‘call to prayer’.
        
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        March 22, 2019 4:15pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Solidarity is just: being a compassionate human. You don’t have to convert, let alone make false vows with a prayer that you don’t really believe.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:27am
- secondcumming
  
  The multitudes are desperate in their search to be the most sorry….all waving white flags in advance.
  
  The sad truth is, the *victor* has already been declared.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:30am
- Tall Man
  
  But many won’t.
  
  They will be bullied into it by their “woke” and “wannabe wokes” co workers and associates.
  
  Since ardern the liar ascended to the “what’s in it for wynston” throne, suicide rates have continued to rise especially among younger maori.
  
  Apart from sending the “review panel’s” recommendations back to more “review committees” what has been done……..
  
  Nothing.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:38am
- cmm
  
  You can show solidarity with women without putting on women’s underwear.
  
  You can show solidarity with black people without going black face.
  
  A Jew/Muslim can show solidarity with Christians without eating pork.
  
  So why do you need to answer a call to prayer because of solidarity?
  
  I am fearful this all going the way of those people clapping for hours after Stalin/Mao speeches because nobody wanted to be seen to be the first that stopped clapping.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:43am
  - SGA
    
    Do you have to answer the call? Do you even have to listen?
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Something akin happened in the Onehunga electorate when the National candidate’s stickers were on all the shops in the borough one Monday morning. Removal was a declaratory political act.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:06am
  - mark15
    
    We’ve all gone crazy,mourning all day and mourning all night,falling over ourselves to get all,of the misery right’….
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:16am
Happychappy

This is sickening and just attention seeking especially when it is not a birthday and is obvious that Stuff will stop at nothing to keep Labour in power.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111474092/the-gift-baby-neve-ardern-gayford-gave-jacinda-ardern-on-her-nine-month-birthday
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March 22, 2019 8:55am
- Poppa
  
  Get me a bucket quick!!
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:13am
- Yvette
  
  Sadly, gun law changes did not make the world any safer for Saffie Rose Roussos
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:26am
- Tall Man
  
  The media have climbed back on board the train taking us all to the wonderful “theme park” known as socialism with ardern the liar pullimg the choo choo’s whistle..
  
  Toot Toot..off we go to a totalitarian state but at least we’ll all be treated kindly as we get royally screwed.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:34am
- calendar girl
  
  At a time of serious discussion on matters of national security, and the safety and well-being of all our people in the face of terrorist action, the “stuff” publisher seeks to reduce the nation to this level of personality politics.
  
  Will our next “Captain’s call” require that we all now celebrate nine-month-birthdays?
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:51am
  - sooty
    
    The woke media, just can’t help them selves!
    They think they are relavant!
    
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    March 22, 2019 12:06pm
- Lizziep
  
  Just been a little bit sick after seeing Happychappy’s post.
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:22am
lastmanstanding

Some random questions.

1. If the new gun laws are such a good idea why didnt previous Governments enact them especially following the Australian Government in 1996?

2. Will the result be the same as Australia where the Police estimated only one third of the targeted weapons were returned?

3. Will people who have the weapons and the potential to cause incidents in the future return their guns?

4. Is this yet another crude cynical vote buying tactic?

5. Will more than a small number of citizens join the dots and see it for what it is?

6. Will the next poll result have Labour with a 4 or 5 in front of the result?

7. Will the Nats have a 3 or 4 in front of their result?

8. Will the Greens be on 4 point something?

9. Will NZF be on 2 point something?

10. Will Cindys support be at an all time high for a PM?

11. Will Simons be at an all time low for a LOTO?

12. Will Judith be the most popular Nat?

13. Will the Government enact laws to make my comments above Hate Speech?
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March 22, 2019 8:59am
- Jeremy
  
  We already seem to have hate speech laws in NZ. Two NZers are currently remanded in prison for seemingly expressing their abhorrent views and others have been arrested.
  
  I’ve read the Human Rights Act since this horrific act of terrorism occurred and I can tell you that almost everyone in New Zealand is guilty of offences under a loose interpretation of Section 61 on a daily basis.
  
  Hundreds of thousands of NZers are now retrospectively chargeable under the Classification Act because they viewed and were traumatised by the footage of the attack, and the Government has made it quite clear they can arrest everyone who watched it – no matter what the circumstances and charge them offence which carry up to 10 years in prison – all due to a retrospective classification.
  
  The current Order in Council has now retrospectively criminalised tens of thousands (or more) of more NZ gun owners.
  
  People are being fired for anonymously expressing their opinions online, in many case months or years before the attack.
  
  I thought after the attack I thought I was going to fearful of copy cat and reprisal attacks, and while that is still a major concern, the draconian response of the Government, Police and Companies has me more concerned on a long term basis. Additionally I’m shocked at the lack of concern by other NZers to these measures, in fact they seem to celebrating every knee jerk reaction and slight reduction of freedom as somehow virtuous.
  
  I honestly thought we valued freedom better than this…
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:06am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Thanks Jeremy: ” I can tell you that almost everyone in New Zealand is guilty of offences under a loose interpretation of Section 61 on a daily basis. ”
    
    That’s exactly right. The interpretation will be widened and enforced now to fit the CoL’s ideology. Just for posting here we will be guilty by association. As we already are if we happen to have low melanin levels.
    
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    March 22, 2019 6:17pm
Maggie Pie

Did i just hear Mike Hosking take credit for the way Jacinda handled events this week?
Does that mans ego know no bounds!!
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March 22, 2019 9:01am
- Happychappy
  
  Anyone that follows politics would be hard pressed to say that Jacinda hasn’t done a good job considering what was put in front of her. But I have questions on the gun laws that are being rushed through Parliament and wonder whether they will end up like her child poverty bill that hides the facts of what’s being done and how many numbers are they reducing each year,which appears the Government doesn’t want or needs to release. This will happen the same in gun ownership if they don’t include a gun registry so they can keep track on who and where these firearms are which at this stage doesn’t seem likely.
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:01pm
gravedodger

#13 without a comma a resounding ‘no’ with a comma an equally resounding yes.
The slippery slope beckons!
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March 22, 2019 9:27am
Tall Man

Just to introduce a little bit of perspective…

“Every year approximately 500 people in New Zealand take their own lives, with many more attempting suicide or experiencing levels of distress that places them at high risk of suicide.”

And for the 2017/18 year…

“The number of people who have taken their own lives in New Zealand is the highest since records began, with 668 dying by suicide in the past year.

It was the fourth year in a row that number has increased. It was also the highest number of suspected suicide deaths since the coroner’s annual provisional suicide statistics were first recorded in 2007-08.
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March 22, 2019 9:31am
- MickMac
  
  tall man
  11.55
  Thank you for the reminder.
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:57am
Jeremy

Yesterday Whitcoulls removed the book “12 Rules for Life” from their stores because Jordan Peterson posed for a photo while in NZ next to someone wearing a shirt that disparaged Islam (engaged in “hate speech” I believe is the current idiom). This morning I sent the below email to Whitcoulls and I thought others like to do the same:

Hello,

My name is [name omitted], I am an avid reader and I have been a customer of Whitcoulls since I was a small child. I still remember my parents buying for me my first books as an independent reader as a youth from Whitcoulls Saint Lukes. It was the Willard Price collection of stories and my parents would let me buy one in the series each week. Once purchased, I would devour the book in the first few days and then eagerly await Thursday night when we would purchase the next. I have spent countless hours amongst your shelves browsing, reading snippets and dust jacket covers before deciding on a purchase which would be my passion for the next few days. I am a long term and loyal customer.

But no more.

Your ridiculous decision to remove a Jordan Peterson book from your shelves – not because it in and of itself contains anything objectionable, but because he once posed for a photo standing next to someone wearing something objectionable, has caused me to decide that my family and I will not be purchasing anything from your stores for the remainder of our lives.

As a bookstore (in addition to the economic reality of needing to turn a profit) you have chosen for yourself a special place in our society in relation to free speech, as a conduit for your customers to practice this most important of individual rights. Bookstores should be on the forefront of advocating and protecting this right, not the quickest to abandon them for the most spurious of reasons.

I hope this email is joined by others like it and that it is made clear to you that this decision you have made will cost you customers and may even put your viability in jeopardy, however from what I’ve seen since this disgusting attack a week ago, while New Zealanders might talk a big game about free speech they hold it in little regard in practice – so I am not hopeful.

Yours Sincerely – a disgusted and former customer,

[name omitted]

You can send a message to them here:

https://www.whitcoulls.co.nz/contact-us
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March 22, 2019 9:38am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Just sent Whitcoulls the following message;
  
  Please send me a list of all the books you intend taking off your shelves. These must include all titles that conservatives such as myself find offensive or is it just some political classes you are pandering to with your attack on freedom of thought and freedom speech
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:59am
  - Lizziep
    
    I have also sent whitcouls an email stating my disappointment they had a knee jerk reaction and stating my distaste at keeping other books e.g Mein Kemph etc on the shelves. Its time to take a stand and speak up or we will be over run with wokeness
    
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    March 22, 2019 11:29am
- David Garrett
  
  Jeremy: Great effort…and very well written.
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:13am
- MickMac
  
  Jeremy
  11.56
  Mine was ruder than that.
  I suggested they restock it, do a promotion and give the profits to the Christchurch Muslim Community!
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:58am
CharlieBrown

Man voting in NZ is a hobsons choice. All our politicians, national and labor are outright leftist, jumping on the politically correct hysteria driven bandwagon instead of rationally and calmly thinking through their policies. One day we will wake up and realise we have slowly accepted tyranny because most of us were to tribal to respect individual liberty and responsibility. The firearms law changes will make absolutely zero difference to violent crime – such a pity how dumb and irrational many of us are.
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March 22, 2019 9:46am
- Sacha
  
  I fear you are right.
  We are sweetly being lured into socialism as we demonstrate our love for, and unity with our fellow citizens.
  Todays scarfies are tomorrow’s socialist sheep –
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:04am
  - CharlieBrown
    
    Political correctness is just a nice sounding name for Fascism, which in the end is very similar to communism. At this stage, the best thing we can do next election is stay home, let the lack of voters show how disenfranchised many are with the slow creep of fascism perpetrated by our current MPs across the spectrum.
    
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    March 22, 2019 12:58pm
Classic Liberal

Red Radio is pushing full steam ahead for a totalitarian state. An imam interviewed this morning pushed for ‘hate speech’ laws. The interviewer did not ask whether religious texts should be exempt, as they are in Europe: religious texts actually calling violence are fine. Criticising those texts will get you in big trouble for ‘hate speech’.

And did anyone else hear Professor Siracusa? The killer seemed ‘off’ to him and should have raised alarm bells when entering NZ. So who makes these decisions? Plenty of people sound pretty ‘off’ to me, including that professor himself (just a personal opinion). ‘Hate speech’ laws are a very slippery slope.
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March 22, 2019 10:04am
Captain Mainwaring

I am no lefty but like many other New Zealanders I have nothing but praise for how the PM handled this atrocity. Communication and compassion are her strengths.
Fortunately we have 18 months for her weaknesses in other areas to be cruelly exposed before we are tricked into giving her another term.
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March 22, 2019 10:05am
- Poppa
  
  I was having quite a good day until you posted that Capt, but I fear you are probably right
  
  Within reason I can cope with it provided Peters is toast
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:31am
Maggie Pie

Im looking forward to the ‘Call to Prayer”. Will be interesting to see how our wee Gladys reacts when i turn it up 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AREm36yp7yI
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March 22, 2019 10:28am
Michael

I have a dentist appointment at 1.30 p.m. today. Guess I better ask the dentist not to do any drilling until the two minutes silence is up.
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March 22, 2019 10:44am
- Fletch
  
  There could be moaning and wailing of another kind?
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:54am
Yvette

I would be intrigued to know what Tarrant now knows.
I understand he is in solitary confinement in Paremoremo.
He is reputedly without radio, television or other media.
Does he even know how many he killed or injured
Is this already a deserved punishment akin to arresting someone like Hillary Clinton on the eve of the last US Election and not telling her the result, or Theresa May just before the Brexit deadline and not telling her if it went ahead or not.
Does Tarrant now sit in limbo with no idea of what his life has amounted to?
Is Tarrant a “dead man walking”? – albeit lying on his prison bed, or sitting in a chair?
Will his trial keep it that way?
Or is he allowed due diligence or whatever the legal equivalent is of that?
Can he demand whatever information he may feel is relevant to his defence?
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March 22, 2019 10:51am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Prison yes: secure psych unit no.
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:06pm
Ross12

Interesting result in Dutch elections/politics

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/03/21/new-populist-party-goes-from-zero-seats-to-largest-party-in-dutch-election/
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March 22, 2019 11:17am
- freethinker
  
  Another reason why Junker & Co are so terrified of
  a Brexit no deal – no UK money – ask other members for more or cut the budget. EU elections with more Nationalist MEPs from Italy/Holland/UK/France/Germany and east Europe will change the climate in the EU Parliament and probably neuter the unelected commission – Junker et al, something that terrifies them – loss of power. Micron is now threatening to put Armed Military on the streets so the Police can be more aggressive with the Yellow vest, I smell revolution in the air and the refurbishment of Madame Guillotine.
  
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  March 22, 2019 12:19pm
  - DigNap15
    
    The Brexit deal is very unclear.
    Is the UK going to pay compo?
    I hope not.
    Just leave – no compo
    And do some trade deals with the EU.
    If I want to leave a society or club or party I can and I don’t have to pay a fine.
    F the EU.
    
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    March 22, 2019 1:04pm
    - Ross12
      
      DigNap15
      At this stage it looks on March 29 the UK will leave with no deal done. The Withdrawal Act 2018 is the law that will automatically come into play which means nothing will be paid to the EU by the UK. I do not understand how May thinks she can get an extension given this law (which her Govt. put in place) is on the statute books.
      This all assumes May and the EU do not miraculously pull something out of the hat in the next 7 days.
      
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      March 22, 2019 1:29pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Ross,
        The current situation is throwing up some beautiful ironies that dispite all the bombast only the Germans are scared of.
        
        I am amazed that the Germans have not told Junker, Tusk, Macron and the French negotiator to shut up before today.
        
        A hard Brexit or a no deal exit by Britain, is not in Europe’s interest so the bombast of the Europeans is stupid.
        
        If they end up with a hard Brexit, there is no divorce payment and it is European trade to Britain (especially German trade & financial interests in London) that suffers. Similarly, Europe is still reliant on a multitude of US companies that although they have headquarters in Ireland have all their main operations in the counties around London.
        
        So, the Europeans are being pig heartedly stupid and it is Germany who will make them pay.
        
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        March 22, 2019 5:20pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Hey trade with us should make up for it, right?
      
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      March 22, 2019 2:19pm
Berend de Boer

Have any females faced pressure today to wear the hijab at work?
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March 22, 2019 11:27am
- Poppa
  
  None of the women at my work have any head wear. In fact I haven’t seen anyone with any today
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:42am
- The King
  
  My childrens school is encouraging girls to wear the hijab. My children have the day off today, i will not allow them to be pacified by this Marxist regime.
  
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  March 22, 2019 12:29pm
- SGA
  
  Haven’t seen a large number wearing a hijab today. Is there a lot at your work?
  
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  March 22, 2019 12:55pm
  - Komata
    
    SGA@1229
    
    FWI: A few local EUROPEAN women were wearing scarves at the local mall thus morning. No Muslims though; they were inhabitting the local mosque in large quantities (complete with Police ‘Escort’).
    
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    March 22, 2019 7:29pm
- paulops
  
  Don’t care if non muslim women wore hijab today as show of support would be more worried if every woman show up for interviews for a spot on the next party list for any political party and are non muslim wearing a hijab
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:54pm
lastmanstanding

Why are the MSM referring the Tarrant as Right Wing. Although I havent read his manifesto I understand from comments that his ranting supported Communism and other ideologies.

If this is correct them the MSM are guilty of Hate Speech. Oh I forgot.

Any speech against the Right is not Hate Speech.
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March 22, 2019 11:33am
waikatosinger

@ DPF What is the procedure for getting auto-approved.
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March 22, 2019 11:33am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You have to email him and request auto-approve status and indicate whether you will use an alias or your own name.
  
  If you wish to gain this status change your user profile (if necessary) to display your real name or a link to your identity and e-mail editor@kiwiblog.co.nz with your username. If I verify you, I will give you auto-approve status.
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/03/moderation_changes.html
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:17pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I am still waiting, I thought that I had followed procedure.
    
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    March 22, 2019 2:52pm
- CharlieBrown
  
  It’s a shame kB have to go this route but I understand why. This will probably lead to a reduction in my participation here as I will go to places like Reddit instead; and I love this blog despite my constant disagreement. I won’t ever publish my name until I am at a point in life where I don’t need to worry about a mob pursuing my children, or place of work just for having a different opinion.
  
  Think about that reasoning for a moment . We are so toxic, mainly on the left, to different opinions as a society today, that many have to be anonymous with their political expression to ensure their social security. And in other formerly civil western countries you have to be anonymous to avoid being pursecuted by your own state. And the media have the nerve to question how people end up in radical echo chambers when the price of expression can be extreme. In the future we will look back on our mainstream media today as the early days of a fascist propaganda machine.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:23pm
Classic Liberal

OK, I give up on this site until this ‘moderation’ thing calms down. Two perfectly reasonably statements of mine are still being ‘moderated’ after hours. Whale oil, which I’ve avoided for over a year because it over-moderated, is now talking about the most important issue: that NZ will lose its freedom of speech.
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March 22, 2019 11:37am
Fletch

I feel uncomfortable that because of the attacks here in NZ, we are having the Islamic call to prayer (which starts out “allahu akbar”) and the wearing of headscarves pushed at us and normalized as though they are only customs and are not related to a religion and ideology that goes against our Judeo-Christian and Western beliefs.
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March 22, 2019 11:52am
- GoVege
  
  It’s only for one day Fletch, for the murder of 50 people in a house of worship.
  Their loved ones will live with their grief til the day they die.
  
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  March 22, 2019 11:38pm
paulops

Wow listening to some political commentary on the news and indeed from people on the street if I want to live in a society where tolerance and acceptance of people going forward in our country I will have to vote labour and the greens for the rest of my life. Watch out here comes the aftermath of this sick event
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March 22, 2019 11:53am
lastmanstanding

Since the dawn of the motoring age cars have been registered and drivers licensed.

Why hasn’t the same principle been applied to guns and gun owners.

Is this yet another illustration of the lack of capacity capability and will of politicians?
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March 22, 2019 11:55am
- cmm
  
  Your argument is pretty broken:
  A) Gun owners are registered. I believe C and E cat guns are registered (not sure about that since I am A-Cat). Cars do not have to be registered unless you drive them on the road (and plenty people drive unlicensed cars on the road).
  B) You can buy a car without a driver’s license; you can’t buy a gun with a gun license.
  C) There is police vetting to get a gun license, no police vetting to get a driver’s license.
  D) You need the right category license to buy a gun. eg an E-Cat license to buy an MSSA. Anyone can buy any vehicle they want without showing a license. You want an 18-wheeler? You want a V12 sports car that goes 250kph? Sure no problem!
  
  … and what would that help anyway?
  
  Extremist criminals break the gun laws just like criminal drivers break the traffic laws. Does the lack of a license stop drink drivers? Nope!
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:19pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Am I correct
    Gun licences are renewed every 10 yrs
    But car licences are renewed every 5 yrs.
    Maybe we could also reduce the term of gun licences
    But I agree with registration of guns matched to owners, who must be licenced.
    Also
    any abuse or failure to “protect” guns = loss of licence and confiscation.
    BUT the real biggy for me would be:
    ANY crime committed where a gun/ firearm was even present…doubles the punishment.
    
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    March 22, 2019 2:33pm
    - SGA
      
      It’s 10 years for a driver’s license.
      
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      March 22, 2019 3:04pm
    - simpleton1
      
      Maybe 5 years for old age pensioners, but the usual drivers licence is 10 years.
      
      Do you mean when a crime is committed, the book is thrown, so that ‘community service’ should be doubled? or ‘home detention should be used more?
      
      I think a heavy book might hurt them more. 🙂
      
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      March 22, 2019 3:17pm
      - SGA
        
        @simpleton
        Ok, your last line made me laugh 🙂
        
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        March 22, 2019 5:08pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        even though you can’t hang them twice, to any effect.
        If I was to rewrite the law, the death penalty would be back.
        
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        March 22, 2019 5:42pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        https://www.victoria.ac.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1440661/fabians-nz-foreign-policy-7mar2018.pdf
        Wonder what this actually said?
        
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        March 22, 2019 6:01pm
  - lastmanstanding
    
    cmm acknowledge your post. So the question will the new gun laws prevent people who shouldnt have the targeted weapons getting hold of them and if not what exactly is the objectives of the new laws apart from virtue signalling and the politicians believing they have to be seen doing something anything whether its effective or not.
    
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    March 22, 2019 3:09pm
hullkiwi

..and just when you thought the snowflakes/SJW couldn’t get any sillier, you get one who runs to the media with a non story.

I’m referring to the RNZ story about Diocesan School for Girls banning girls from wearing the hijab. The person who provided the story to the media is a Male teacher at the school. It is a case of what doesn’t the guy get?
1. It is a private Anglican (not Muslim) school;
2. It has it’s own rules on dress code; and
3. When parents sign their children to attend, they sign up that their children will abide by the rules of the school including the dress code.

The news item then goes on to talk about two further schools in the area (St Cuthberts and Baradene), telling the reader they have relaxed their dress codes and allow hijabs.

In a phrase, so what?

Diocesan is a private Anglican Girls School (not a Muslim school) free to set their own rules. If Muslims & snowflakes don’t like the rules, they are free to go somewhere else!
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March 22, 2019 12:00pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  fifo
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:08pm
- Swifty
  
  If a bunch of non-Muslim parents wishes to send their kids their kids to a NZ Islamic school and did not wish to follow the dress code, or any other code for that matter, which is more likely:
  
  1. The Islamic school leaders would decline the children’s admission
  2. The Islamic school leaders would accept the children’s admission conditional on their and their parents acceptance of school dress or other codes
  3. The Islamic school leaders would welcome the children and allow them to wear what they wished (and do what they want).
  
  Place your bets!
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:13pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Parents at 5 schools in Birmingham want their LGBT programmes abolished
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/education-47647273/campaigners-say-they-want-birmingham-lgbt-teaching-abolished
    
    The left in NZ will soon have to make choices about religious rights versus Gay rights/Women’s rights, I suspect.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:24pm
- Jules99
  
  Often religious schools have a requirement for staff to respect the ‘special nature’ of the school, in other words, the religious belief and practices. I don’t know if this teacher agreed to that, but I would expect the Principal to be studying his work contract closely. Most school also have strict rules about talking to the media.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:12pm
Surely Knott

As the nation reflects on how extremism breeds, social media cops the blame. Yet on mainstream media, Newshub publishes an article based on a twitter post of Jim Carreys which blames Trump for the massacre “people being slaughtered, families ruined etc” and shows an illustration of Trump with a swastika on his head. Mainstream media is now predominantly opinion pieces which are often emotive, extremist, and designed to evoke polarising positions.
The article of interest is NZ Herald- Brodie Kane “White privilege..it’s time to make big changes.” She says, “I can no longer live the life I live. I can no longer wake up, as a privileged white woman, in my nice house with a comfortably financed mortgage, hop into my nice car, drive to my well-paid job where I have the privilege to speak on the radio for three hours about whatever I want to. I can no longer jump back into that nice car after work, put on my nice gym gear, hop off to one of the three gyms I belong to and work out. Look I know that sounds dramatic, but what I’m actually trying to say to you, is that I can no longer go around living my life with my white privileged head shoved up my own backside. I need to be better. I must be better.”
So am I correct in reading that she is going to give up her house and her car, her privileged celebrity radio job, and her nice gym membership and designer workout clothes.
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March 22, 2019 12:12pm
- cmm
  
  I thought she had already moved to Canada. Along with Cher and a whole train of others who promised to do so if Trump got in.
  
  Question: Why do did they say they were going to Canada – an even whiter country than USA? If they love their southern neighbours so much then why move North? Why didn’t they say they would move to Venezuela or Mexico? That way they’d be on the right side of the wall.
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:09pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Extreme woke, looks terminal which is not a bad thing for the rest of us
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:11pm
  - sooty
    
    No! One rule for thee and another rule for me
    
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    March 22, 2019 2:16pm
- Jules99
  
  With plummeting viewers and readers, many mainstream media outlets are sacking staff, so she’ll get her wish soon, standing in line at WINZ.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:16pm
- Komata
  
  SN@1212
  
  Of course you’re not correct.
  
  All noise, no substance. There is absolutely no way she will actually follow through, BUT because she has told her followers she will, they have no reason to doubt her.
  
  I believe it’s called ‘Virtue Signalling’.
  
  It would be intetesting to actually check-in in six months to see exactly what she did give up; one latte a day perhaps?
  
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  March 22, 2019 7:38pm
RiP NZ

Now that Mongrel Mob and co. are hailed as pious members of society – it seems more valued than people like myself, who for our sins struggle along working, paying high tax and trying to look after the family on a single wage….unforgivable right.
Perhaps the Mob can be first to hand in their guns with their new found moral compass.
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March 22, 2019 12:32pm
RW Capitalist

Prepare your sick bag.
https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-nobel-peace-prize-for-nz-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern
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March 22, 2019 1:06pm
- Poppa
  
  That would be too much for me.
  
  We expect our PM’s to step up when things go wrong, that is their job & get paid the big bucks to do.
  
  I don’t consider anything Cindy has done to be in any way due a reward
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:28pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just another ‘do good’ thing for her. Stepping stone to United Nations.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:17pm
- Inandout
  
  Key had two disasters to contend with and maybe he deserved a Knighthood. That sort of pressure I would not wish on anyone. But Peace Prize, well Obama got one for simply being Obama, so a useless gong in my opinion.
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:43pm
- Bell-47
  
  Not sure how long it’s been up but is only at 700 wish. Real popular by the looks of it!
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:54pm
RW Capitalist

Couple of thoughts
1. Heard on the radio that Today would be celebrated
as the “one week anniversary” for the Mosque killings.
My thought, doesn’t this person get paid to speak ENGLISH? An anniversary…is a YEARLY thing.
2. Got me thinking re 1. above.
We have a one minute silence every year to commemorate something that happened over 100yrs ago, we have services too, on the 25th April (and 11 Nov. for that matter)
We barely remember the person, who the last time there was this much angst for, about 20 yrs ago (Princess Diana, on her death).
And Martin Luther King, JFK???
The thought, how long will this be remembered?
Serious question, I am not ranting or joking.
I would like to know.
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March 22, 2019 1:19pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  June 16th is a public Holiday in South Africa. These things do not get forgotten. Friday’s events are, I believe, one of those events that no one will ever forget, because unlike natural disasters that may even kill many thousands more, this event was an evil, calculated act of savage barbarism that will not be forgotten.
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:11pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Compared to WW1?
    My thoughts are, that events, of terror and other death perpetrated by evil people, have not been remembered. (as such)
    
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    March 22, 2019 2:27pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Celebrated? Seems the wrong word if that was what they used.
  
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  March 22, 2019 7:24pm
lastmanstanding

I fear DPF against his own instincts is getting concerned at the back lash the Left are going to unleash on KB using the CCH tragedy as the excuse they have been waiting for for a very long time.

He is right to get concerned. The Left now feel emboldened to unleash their hatred of conservatives using the incident as a cover for their real agenda which is to shut down any speech that doesnt agree with their ideology.

History will prove this.
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March 22, 2019 1:25pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The Left can only shut down speech if you let them.
  
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  March 22, 2019 6:01pm
DigNap15

I’d give it to Trump and Kim Jun Un.
No nukes or rockets for the last year.

Yes sales of sick bags will sky rocket
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March 22, 2019 1:35pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Ending the Korean war would earn (EARN) them something.
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:53pm
- Jules99
  
  They won’t give it to him for NK, but will have to when he brings peace to the Middle East. In fact, I can’t help wondering whether he’ll share it with Putin who is also fighting the ‘unipolar’ world, aka the One World Government.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:19pm
Inandout

I was driving along a city street this morning and I observed a rather well dressed lady striding along the footpath, looking around trying to catch the eye of anyone passing. She was wearing a head scarf. At 1.30pm the roofers opposite stopped for a two minute smoke break and rest. My observations on a beautiful Autumn day.
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March 22, 2019 1:59pm
rightoverlabour

I am interested to gauge the reaction to the call of women to wear headscarves today. I see some have already argued that its tokenism. I am not really fussed either way.
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March 22, 2019 2:07pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Had to drive to Wgtn to day for a job.
  Finding a park was murder (as usual) 3/4 hr of driving around.
  Saw 3 head scarves/hijabs.
  Out of 1000’s.
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:13pm
fisho

So the piece of shit from Chch spent a significant amount of time visiting Turkey not too long back. Now Erdogan uses this attack to inflame Western-Muslim relations, exhume the past (Gallipoli) and gain support politically, continuing his drive towards re-establishing the Ottoman Empire and unseating Saudi Arabia as the political centre of Islam. Timing is everything.
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March 22, 2019 2:19pm
- Swifty
  
  Erdogan is a self-admitted Islamic imperialist who will do and use anything to firm and enlarge his base, and position himself as the only Islamic leader capable of restoring Islamic society to the ‘glory days of old’.
  
  Erdogan is a classic Islamofascist.
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:46pm
- ABS
  
  He also visited Israel which has the conspiracy theorists at 4Chan all in a lather.
  
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  March 22, 2019 2:54pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Probably realised their police were a little harder to deal with than ours.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:12pm
RW Capitalist

Does Recep Tayyip Erdoğan want this back.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/ataturk-memorial-wellington
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March 22, 2019 2:25pm
- mandk
  
  I can’t imagine he would.
  He probably regards Ataturk an an infidel.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:00pm
Rachael Membery

I can’t understand why programmes not broadcast due to exceptional reasons, can’t still be available on demand.
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March 22, 2019 2:31pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  S E N S O R S H I P
  I went to watch a film I hadn’t seen in ages (on Sky)
  “Peacemaker”
  only to find they had replaced it with “Gravity”
  and yet “Salvador” was playing at the same time.
  Both are about violence, I would say that visibly, Salvador is a more violent movie.
  Maybe it’s because in Peacemaker, the baddies are muslim, radicalised by the Croatian war.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:14pm
  - MickMac
    
    RW
    18:52
    I’ve just watched Hotel Mumbai (I’m in Sydney) and it is good.
    I can understand them withdrawing it at this time.
    Because the religion of peace comes out really really shit.
    It is a good reminder of what we are really facing when people are true believers and are organised.
    
    Some good acting and Arnie Hammer has a bad death, but his wife and child survive.
    Worth seeing.
    
    Men who swim was delightful too 🙂
    
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    March 22, 2019 6:56pm
Swifty

Dio reverses its hijab policy after ‘public backlash’ according to The Herald (no author named):

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12215269

Public backlash? Really? It’s only been in the headlines for 24 hours and has, from what I’ve seen, been a total media beatup.
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March 22, 2019 2:40pm
- DigNap15
  
  What public backlash?
  Two newspaper articles is not a backlash!
  
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  March 22, 2019 4:12pm
DigNap15

I played my guitar at 1.30.
AC/DC and CCR.
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March 22, 2019 2:41pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Was, accidentally at the supermarket. (forgot the time)
  The manager said to me, as i got my stuff, “we are having the 2 min. silence for CHCH, join in if you want”
  As I continued shopping, looked at each of them, all the time thinking
  I stood and was silent on April 25th 2018, were you?
  I stood and was silent on November 11th 2018, were you?
  I stood and was silent at the Phoenix game on the weekend, were you?
  I don’t have to be TOLD by the PM what respect, thought and reverence are.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:20pm
DigNap15

I can’t bear to open the Herald or Stuff
Or even turn the radio on.
Its just full of Ardern and ChCh.
Lets hope it goes away soon.
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March 22, 2019 2:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  https://giphy.com/gifs/legion-fx-xUPGcpJBS0X1TussI8/fullscreen
  
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  March 22, 2019 4:09pm
Dave Mann

I’m leaving now so adios, hasta luego, zài jiàn, au revoir and ciao amigos.

I tried to give it a go, but after having a perfectly reasonable comment defending Kiwi values left in moderation and then deleted, I’ve realised that anything posted here now is likely to be just a sanitised and emasculated version for the new Woke.

This is no criticism of those who chose to stay…. but I just can’t stomach it.

All the best in the New Aotearoa guys and girls ?‍♂️
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March 22, 2019 2:44pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Give it a few weeks and then check back in Dave.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:30pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Dave Mann:
  
  The Blog Guardian (Pete George) has taken a close interest in DPF’s new moderation policy:
  
  There has been some wailing at Kiwiblog that increased moderation is a win for a terrorist and the end of the free speech world. That’s over-wrought bollocks. When people try to use a terrorist act to promote an extreme agenda, and that causes a tightening of moderation on a blog, it is the extremist commenters who are to blame for their voices being not being trusted s being responsible enough for unfettered speech.
  
  Notably, the Blog Guardian doesn’t provide any examples of an “extremist commenter” or an “extreme agenda” here at Kiwiblog.
  
  He goes on to say:
  
  In comments there is some support, but a lot of angst and threats to desert Kiwiblog. Some who have genuine reasons to remain anonymous, and who don’t want to comment with auto-moderation, will be a loss to Kiwiblog. Others will be a welcome clean up, and more may comment with less threat of attacks and abuse which was prevalent there.
  
  I don’t think Kiwiblog needs to operate as a sterile environment – and I don’t think DPF wants it to become one. There’s some room for give-and-take, particularly on a political blog. I’ve enjoyed reading comments from the regulars over the years, and it’s a pity that some of them have decided to announce their retirement in the last few days.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:48pm
  - Swifty
    
    Agreed Nostra – let’s just see how it all unfolds here on KB.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:04pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I notice a few folk who commented on KB are now over at Pete George’s site.
    
    I can’t say I find it as entertaining or as informative as KB as the pool of commenters is so small.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:08pm
  - B Phillips
    
    Pete has always been jealous of DPF and this blog. He can’t match it so has tried to tear it down, spiteful little man that he is.
    Everything is a little upside right at the moment and given time the equilibrium will return. Considering some of the abuse of and comments made about DPF this week it almost seemed like he had to do this for his safety.
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:29pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      How the Hell would you find the nobody Pete George’s site even if you wanted to?
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:14pm
- Tall Man
  
  Come on Dave…tough it out.
  
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  March 22, 2019 4:06pm
ABS

Store next to me is owned and managed by Bangladeshis. Neither of the 2 women who work there are wearing a head scarf today.
Maybe they don’t watch the news?
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March 22, 2019 2:53pm
- SGA
  
  Why don’t you politely ask them? Perhaps they aren’t Muslim (about 10% of Bangladeshi’s aren’t), or they have left the faith?
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:14pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    Not really anyone’s business except theirs I would have thought SGA. When did Kiwis start asking each other about one’s religious beliefs or lack thereof?
    
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    March 22, 2019 4:09pm
  - MickMac
    
    SGA
    18:49
    They get treated very badly by the majority and killed if they stick their head above the parapet.
    If they leave the faith they get murdered…..
    
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    March 22, 2019 6:52pm
    - SGA
      
      I’m aware of how apostasy is viewed in Islam, but for all we know that’s why they have come to NZ. Really my point is that we don’t know why these women choose not to wear head covering, and, as both waikatogirl and mm point out, it’s not even our business.
      
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      March 22, 2019 8:22pm
- Jules99
  
  There’s a few Hindus in Bangladesh – maybe they are not Muslim, in which case I doubt they will be keen to done the garb of the oppressors of their religion. Ditto Indians of course too.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:22pm
  - ABS
    
    Even if they’re Muslim they may not be keen to don the “garb of their oppressors”.
    
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    March 22, 2019 3:52pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Or maybe they don’t care what you think about what clothes they should wear. But you could always go and ask them.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:43pm
  - ABS
    
    Jesus you’re a snarky wee prick sometimes.
    
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    March 22, 2019 3:50pm
- Tall Man
  
  The head tents are more likely to be a Bedouin tradition that has merged into a muslim thing.
  
  Many in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand also exist as muslims without head covering.
  
  My son works in Bangladesh from time to time and they are also more relaxed which leads me to think it is a middle eastern thing.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:59pm
brett68

There is now little hope of Simon Bridges leading National to victory next year.
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March 22, 2019 3:23pm
- ABS
  
  Thanks for that update.
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:52pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Brett68:
  
  You sound like someone who would vote for Winston to “teach National a lesson”. Maybe you could speak to Chuck Bird? He’s busy attending National Party conferences and AGMs these days, but if you ask nicely, he could put you in touch with someone at New Zealand First (who Chuck voted for at the last election).
  
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  March 22, 2019 3:58pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Was that “long hand” for idiot..
    
    Just asking for a friend.
    
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    March 22, 2019 8:22pm
- Tall Man
  
  Doesn’t take long for your malice towards Simon Bridges to rear it’s ugly head again.
  
  Put it this way, he has a greater chance of leading National to victory next year than ardern the liar does of ridding herself of the taint from “what’s in it for wynston”.
  
  The stench of the greens will eventually over power her and her government’s chances of coming back.
  
  How many voters will support a marama “C” word led party?
  
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  March 22, 2019 4:03pm
- greybeard
  
  Cheers Brett68.
  Which numbers will come up for Lotto tomorrow night please ?
  
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  March 22, 2019 4:28pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  and in 2 months, when all the hysteria has died down.
  We still have no houses
  We still have no trees
  We still have rising unemployment (also noticed a lot of govt. jobs being advertised just like auntie helen did)
  We still have falling growth
  
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  March 22, 2019 4:53pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yeh but will anyone vote against Saint Jacinda. There are now calls for her to get a Nobel Peace Prize.
    
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    March 22, 2019 9:47pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Don’t you believe it. The recession is beginning to bite and it will not pass us by. The COL may have empathy as expediency requires but they don’t possess economic management skills.
  There are a lot of simmering issues.
  
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  March 22, 2019 7:18pm
RW Capitalist

For reasons I won’t go in to.
We keep track of my wife’s brother’s accounts, to make sure he’s OK.
Just received his rates/council bill
For Wandsworth council (London)
500 Pounds per YEAR (about ($1000NZD)
I’m so jealous right now Lower Hutt rates $2400pa
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March 22, 2019 4:50pm
- DigNap15
  
  Yes, its not that our wages are too low (they are high)
  Its that our costs are too high
  Rates
  Groceries
  Consumer Goods
  
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  March 22, 2019 5:48pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Wife shouted out to me
    Flights return to UK $1300
    Do ya think it would count if I flew to Wandsworth and paid their rates, over there?
    
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    March 22, 2019 6:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You should move to the UK, then. With Brexit imminent, surely those rates will only go down.
  
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  March 22, 2019 7:26pm
- Tall Man
  
  Head over to Porirua or up to Kapiti.
  
  Local government greed.
  
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  March 22, 2019 7:57pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  RW,
  But does he live in a 40 square metre flat on the 8th floor of a 1950s tenement?
  Apples and apples?
  And where the Hell in Lower Hutt do you live? Mine are $4200pa.
  cheers, the Captain
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:04pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    He lives in serviced apartment
    on the 2nd floor
    with a roof tce
    Swimming pool
    Gym
    Elevator
    concierge
    Garage
    Near Clapham common
    
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    March 22, 2019 8:16pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’d tell you what my rates in Lower Hutt, too, but that’s the landlord’s worry.
    
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    March 22, 2019 8:33pm
sooty

So what did JacinDUH release today at 4pm.
That she wants to hide?
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March 22, 2019 5:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Your Mum’s criminal records?
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The beginning of control:

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/politicians-just-planned-a-major-attack-on-the-2nd-amendment/?fbclid=IwAR1rD8noDBZ7fkva75ehpCNB-Xq_ChL0PCWPZAuyHEQ6sCQqJQP3DGShexs
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March 22, 2019 5:58pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12215213
Would appear, looking at our MSM that Stalin was right.
The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.
Stalin
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March 22, 2019 6:16pm
Odakyu-sen

“We live in a free society, with freedom of speech.”

Until something really bad happens, and then you realize just how quickly the authorities will race to “do… something…” and how quickly political opportunists will utilize the incident to push through their agendas and take down their opponents.

Was it all an illusion from the beginning?
We thought we were free, until the challenge came.

How hollow will the ANZAC celebrations be if the light of the dawn service is lit by the fires of burning books?
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March 22, 2019 6:34pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Funny isn’t it. I’m feeling particularly hated by my country at the moment, well at least by the Greens and the media. You see, I’m white, male and right of center. Take a look at Golly Gee’s Twitter or Stuff. Apparently I am evil. Yet they spout diversity platitudes.
  
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  March 22, 2019 8:59pm
  - DigNap15
    
    Don’t worry, I’ll be giving it to Golriz next week.
    No more muslim immigration please!
    They breed like rabbits, and many do not work.
    In France and Holland they are all on welfare.
    
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    March 22, 2019 10:47pm
    - MickMac
      
      Digi
      08.15
      Not all.
      some are entrepreneurs, some working whatever the jobs they can get.
      But yes they breed quicker than their host populations.
      They don’t assimilate and have never wanted too.
      They take over schools to teach Islamic law and sharia for the next generation.
      They create ‘No Go’ areas where social & youth workers, local govt and police dare not go.
      read it all on Gatestone Institute.
      
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      March 23, 2019 8:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Probably depends on what books you are planning to burn. Large old encyclopedias burn long and shed quite a strong light. Your shittily bound mangas tend to flare briefly.
  I tend to think Anzac Day is best in natural light, though.
  
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  March 22, 2019 9:00pm
Fletch

I’m over the whole thing now. It’s still wall-to-wall stuff related to the attack. Someone made a mural – stick it on the news. Someone baked cookies – make a Facebook post about it. Sonny Bill said this, plaster it on the internet. I know it was a horrible attack, but I’m sick of hearing about it.
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March 22, 2019 9:45pm
- MickMac
  
  yes Fletch
  08.10
  let’s plaster it all over……
  But lets make sure it is current…
  
  Ohh that means each week we plaster the Religion of Peace and it’s abominations somewhere in the world, all over NZ….
  
  I’m sure Adhern and the rest of them will love that.
  But let’s be fair.
  
  – Yardzi women being raped and enslaved.
  – Countless innocent Syrians being bombed.
  – Copt young girls being kidnapped and forcibly made to marry.
  – Pakistani Christians being attacked at the water well for stuff they never said…..
  – Afghani Muslims who gave up the religion being chased to be killed.
  – Saudi Arabian women protesting at having to have a male family member order all their affairs being jailed for months without legal representation.
  – Human rights lawyers in Saudi Arabia being jailed for representing their clients.
  – Iraqi Christians being bombed at their local Market.
  – Egyptian Christians being bombed whilst at Church.
  – Nigerian Christians being herded in their villages and genocided by Muslim herdsmen.
  – Abu Dhabi workers being herded into unsafe and unsanitary living conditions.
  – Iranian youth being held without charges and subject to sodomy and other torture for wanting to be free.
  
  Indonesia
  Malaysia
  Yemen
  Somalia
  Gaza
  Uzbekistan
  and the list will keep giving week after week.
  
  I bet our Jacinda will stand up for these poor unfortunates too.
  
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  March 23, 2019 8:11am
wreck1080

Ardern is adapting ideas from game of thrones and walking dead and harry potter, with respect to some of her comments surrounding the massacre.

“we are negan”, and the ‘faceless/nameless” ones, and he whose name cannot be said.

Some of the things she is saying, reminded me of that.
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March 23, 2019 7:49am
DigNap15

The Herald is daily wall to wall Ardern and Hijabs!
Even more reason not to read it
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March 23, 2019 7:56am

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