General Debate 21 March 2019

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auckwood

Any reports on the Labour youth camp alleged sexual predator….?

It’s almost like its fallen through a crack somewhere
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March 21, 2019 8:03am
- sooty
  
  No crack.
  Just shit media.
  Too busy getting fat heads over Christchurch.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:19am
- harvey wilson
  
  No , its hard to get anything heard over the griefapalooza at the moment.
  
  In about a month when the white noise from people using this for their own purposes subsides it will be useful to take stock of who have been the worst offenders . So far I have
  
  Marama Davidson
  Golly G
  Russell Brown
  Our government getting internet providers to block sites that hosted the Facebook livestream but tookno action against Facebook
  Various people on the left who have called any speech hate speech and want hate speech laws strengthened .
  The people who see no hypocrisy in claiming Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam but because amongst other things this guy claimed to be far right anyone who’s ever voted national is complicit in the massacre.
  Those on the left who are studiously avoiding mentioning Winston “ wogistan” Peters
  
  I’m sure there’s more.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:26am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Are you allowed to say white noise?
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:24am
    - MH
      
      and a black out ?
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:23pm
  - harvey wilson
    
    This still tops the list of most shameless narcissistic thing I’ve seen so far from anyone using the massacre for their own purposes
    
    https://mobile.twitter.com/fundypost/status/1107753879188307968
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:34am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Oh Wow! The aroha just drips from my every pore…
      Peace on them!
      
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      March 21, 2019 7:53pm
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Seriously though – anyone who has an issue with that photo really doesn’t deserve to be a part of our glorious new society… There’s nothing more powerful (and sexy) than a woman who knows her sh!t!
      
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      March 21, 2019 7:56pm
  - Piniwi
    
    But HW funniest of all was the SLG finally deciding on Tuesday to make a belated attempt to deprive the accused of oxygen by not using his name? Too little too late and it would have been the best case for name suppression when the accused appeared in court.
    Now it has been revealed she chaired the group that loosened gun laws last year to make it easier to buy guns online. As the band plays even louder “What a Friend We Have In Cindy” that seems to drown out warnings from a Christchurch armorer and gun expert. Meanwhile the other COL member the Media party rush to list the wonderful things she is doing with a blank list of wrong moves.
    Failure to nip this in the bud instantly have given the shooter just what he intended the massacre to achieve. Attention and notoriety. While some more savvy news networks refused to be sucked in and he was a nameless gunman. Likewise many have reserved their comments out of respect for the grieving families who interestingly have now requested space to grieve. IMHO one would be too many while the Media party frenzy raises fears of more to come as NZ has been exposed as an easy target location. Yes indeed the Kiwi way of life is truly under threat in more ways than we might have imagined.
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:43pm
Than

There has been criticism of the SIS not being aware of the Christchurch shooter. There is no question they should do a review to ask if there is anything more they could have done. However right now my view is that most of the criticism seems unjustified, for one simple reason – prior to the shooting, this individual doesn’t seem to have done anything to be flagged as a person of interest.

Intelligence services don’t track every person in NZ. Ignoring privacy and civil liberty questions, they simply don’t have the resources. For them to be aware of BT he would have had to have taken some action that would have brough him to their attention. And exactly what would that be;

– He had never been arrested in Australia or New Zealand (or anywhere else that has been reported).
– He travelled, but all the countries he visited were popular tourist destinations. None would have raised any red-flags.
– He was not (as far as has been reported) a member of any extremist organisation.
– There are no reports of him associating (offline) with people convicted or suspected of hate-crimes.
– His gun and gun-accessory purchases were all legal (although he could combine them to create an illegal weapon). I’m assuming whatever materials he used to construct the IEDs were likewise individually legal.

The only possibilty that leaves is the SIS tracking his online activity; monitoring white-nationalist websites and forums. But such sites would get a large number of visitors per day, only a small minority of which would merit being tracked. Unless his activity stood out for some reason he could easily have gone unnoticed. ( It’s also something of a civil liberties can of worms to start monitoring people’s online activity looking for reasons to monitor them (a chicken or the egg situation). Not saying it can’t be justified in some circumstances, just that it’s not a power we want the SIS using indiscriminately. )

The unfortunate fact is that an attack by an individual acting alone (whether the motivation is white-nationalism, radical Islam, or anything else) is simply much, much harder to prevent than an attack by a group. There is literally no chatter to intercept.
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March 21, 2019 8:06am
- SGA
  
  prior to the shooting, this individual doesn’t seem to have done anything to be flagged as a person of interest.
  
  Or, to put it another way, done little more to attract attention than probably hundreds of other people.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:22am
  - Tall Man
    
    Including a few rabid leftwing possters on here.
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:55am
- srylands
  
  I have seen several references on social media calling for resignations at the intelligence agencies. These would be the same people who in the 2014 election were hysterical about “mass surveillance”.
  
  https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/254806/no-mass-surveillance-in-nz-key
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:23am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    targetting right wing nutters who talk about their solutions isnt mass surveillance
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:23am
    - rouppe
      
      1) Not all nutters or supremacists are right wing. Maori nationalists are just as much nutters as white nationalists. Left wing nutters are just as deadly as right wing nutters.
      
      2) You have to put mass surveillance on everyone in order to catch the nutters – of any stripe
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:29am
      - ztev
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        No you dont .
        The flaw in your argument is that mass like that surveillance only gives noise .
        Targeted surveillance concentrated on those using the vile white supremacist websites.
        Its called an IP address , perhaps its a new term for you.
        They do targeted surveillance for pedophiles that way, start at the website and trace backwards
        It works.!
        get some basic internet knowledge before you comment about online surveillance
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:03pm
      - Swifty
        
        Like your knowledge about NZ ISPs blocking websites?
        
        Managed to tie your shoelaces today?
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:12pm
      - sooty
        
        His mother still dresses him and she bought him shoes with elastic in them.
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:25pm
      - rouppe
        
        @ztev:
        
        Its difficult to speak more slowly online but I’ll try for your benefit.
        
        Not all nutters are white supremacists. Not all white supremacists are right wing. You would have to put surveillance on nearly the entire Internet to cover the risk from all extremists.
        
        The IP address you are assigned changes every time a variety of events occur. Its called dynamic IP addressing and is how the majority of customers connect to their isp. Only a relative few have static IP’s.
        
        And that’s not even taking into account VPN’s
        
        So there is no direct repeatable link back to an individual, there has to be a lot of legwork to track which customer had a given IP at a particular moment in time.
        
        In order to collect themes of evidence, police or sis would have to resolve millions of possible triggers to constantly changing IP addresses in order to build a picture that surfaces a person of interest.
        
        But I guess it’s only logical that you think something is so simple.
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:46pm
      - Northland Wahine
        
        Loved your response to trev
        
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        March 21, 2019 1:38pm
    - ldypen
      
      Same for Left wing nutters then?….or maybe not?
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:30am
    - Tall Man
      
      Whereas we all well know now that the left haven’t got a solution for anything…they can’t even plant trees FFS.
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:54am
    - The King
      
      Brenton Tarrant had 2 followers on his relatively new facebook account, he kept as low social media profile as he could as to not draw suspicion.
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:58am
  - Wired-one
    
    It’s the old story of only seeing our intelligence agencies failures, never their successes.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:41am
    - Tall Man
      
      Correct, the “Star Wall” at Langley is a sombre thing to consider.
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:56am
- Tall Man
  
  You are correct.
  
  There is far too much navel gazing and “what ifs”.
  
  New Zealanders do not want intrusive intelligence gathering, although currently many seem to want what that would provide, so therefore the one man bandit will always glide under the radar.
  
  This has happened, no one person or government agency is to blame for what has happened.
  
  Can we please try to get back to a normal life without continual angst ridden grief headlines?
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:28am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  We dont know what he was doing online, because they werent looking….apparently not even casually
  But Im sure they will work backwards with those computer devices he used and the ISPs records of what web sites he went to.
  Its almost certain that he was online and it would be shocking when we hear about it.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:31am
  - Tall Man
    
    And if they applied the same diligence to your internet activity and ramblings….what would they find and how would they interpret it?
    
    Is the vile abuse you have handed out over time to various people to now be “interpreted” as veiled threats to their welfare?
    
    You operate within a very narrow comprehension band in that “everthinng” is “everyone else”…not you.
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:52am
    - ztev
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      laughable …. calling out morons who are ? Its called sledging
      Have you decided to be a ‘snowflake for the day’
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:25am
      - srylands
        
        Yes that’s right. Your behaviour is perfectly normal.?
        
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        March 21, 2019 10:48am
      - Tall Man
        
        As I said…”everyone else..not you” but please explain to me about the strikes you have against you, 8 is it?
        
        “Trust me sunshine”, as “what’s in it for wynston” often says, my snowflake days are well behind me and if or when I “sledge” you, you will know.
        
        Just remember, “they” may be more concerned about you than I….. isn’t that the “lefty mantra”…
        
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        March 21, 2019 11:52am
    - Swifty
      
      Ignore ztev – he wants NZ cheesemakers to pay taxes to the British government – on top of what they already pay here.
      
      He is, shall we say, confused.
      
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      March 21, 2019 12:14pm
- calendar girl
  
  Thank you, Than. A very thoughtful and sensible comment to commence today’s GD thread.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:35am
- Andrew Davies
  
  Remember the kerfuffle raised by the left when the whole GCSB review was being done.
  At that stage it was assumed our intelligence services would be investigating only leftist (Ureweras anyone?) or Islamic groups, hence the agitation against an expansion of powers. It will be interesting to see what type of tune they sing now.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:35am
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    One only need look at the people who were so vociferous on that issue. They are strangely silent at the moment.
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:40am
  - redeye
    
    Indeed. And Nicky Hager is on the GCSB reference group now. Snigger.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:03am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Not at all.
    It wasnt against targeted surveillance it was the mass collection that was the problem…. still is.
    You just go to web sites like the terrorist was involved with and work backwards
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:29am
    - srylands
      
      There never was any mass surveillance.
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:47am
    - Tarquin North
      
      You mean The Standard?
      
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      March 21, 2019 1:12pm
      - david
        
        Has anyone ever seen Mike Williams and Ztev in the same room at the same time …. ever?
        Not that I’m suggesting a connection …. but. !!!
        
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        March 21, 2019 9:04pm
- Chris2
  
  The same criticism was leveled at the SIS by Greenpeace when the Rainbow Warrior was sunk, but David Lange who was the Prime Minister at the time said that had the SIS been monitoring Greenpeace it would have identified the French infiltrator working as a volunteer in its Auckland office.
  
  However, Lange adroitly added that if the SIS had been monitoring Greenpeace and that Greenpeace had learned of the SIS interest, that Greepeace itself would have been the very first to complain about being monitored!
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:10am
  - ztev
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You are completely incorrect in that.
    GCSB were monitoring the French agents and their yacht
    “he highly classified 1985/86 Annual Report for the Government Communications and Security Bureau was accidentally released to media in 2006 and disclosed its spying work on the “Rainbow Warrior incident”.
    
    “A special collection and reporting effort was mounted against French vessels in the New Zealand area, particularly the yacht Oueva (on which some French agents escaped from New Zealand),” the report said. The GCSB also asked its counterpart in the United Kingdom, and the National Security Agency in the US, to tap phones in Paris – and such efforts bore fruit: “Coverage of the Oueva produced some valuable intercepts.”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10656635
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:35am
    - CrazyIvan
      
      Yes, but that was after the bombing not before, when the police and security services were trying to link the Ouvea to the bobbing. The issue Lange was talking about was identifying Christine Cabon infiltrating Greenpeace to flag an operation was underway before it occurred
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:51am
    - rouppe
      
      That was done after the bombing. Not before.
      
      This whole thread was about preventing attacks not catching attackers after the fact
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:55am
    - Chris2
      
      ztev – I made no mention of the GCSB, I was referring to the SIS. My post related only to the volunteer that infiltrated the Auckland office of Greenpeace. As usual, you like to be argumentative just for the sake of it.
      
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      March 21, 2019 1:38pm
- Scott
  
  Than, totally agree. I am not aware of any other white western person going into shoot up a mosque? To my knowledge it is something that has never happened before? So it is very hard for intelligence agencies to predict something that has never occurred before?
  Secondly this guy was a “lone wolf” who doesn’t appear to have had any accomplices and so no chatter on the Internet.
  Thirdly he had no criminal record or history of terrorist related activities.
  
  It’s a bit like those people who think that the CIA should have stopped 9/11? Who could possibly know that Muslim suicide pilots would fly a plane into a building?
  
  Our only hope is that we don’t see more of this from Western terrorists. Not publicising the guys identity and details is a good start.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:33am
  - ztev
    
    A church in US – white supramcist
    
    A synagogue in US – white supremacist/anti migrant
    
    Mosques in Israel- jewish nutters
    
    Finsbury , London . wasnt shooting but drove van into worshippers outside.
    
    See how you dont see what you dont see because you have eyes painted on.
    
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    March 21, 2019 12:09pm
    - Bevan
      
      Wow, nice selective list you have there.
      
      Your behaviour is one of the most disgusting aspects to come out of this tragedy – the glee you seem to be relishing highlighting this particular perpetrator was not left wing as quite frankly sub-human.
      
      You should keep in mind, history is littered with atrocities committed by the left – but you just call it revolution..
      
      Hate is hate, you should think about that.
      
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      March 21, 2019 1:31pm
      - Bevan
        
        Apologies, the phrase sub-human was used in anger.
        
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        March 21, 2019 1:42pm
- Sacha
  
  In other words – a perfect example of a Lone Wolf. He acted by himself. There may be some who, in retrospect, can now see that he was a bit ‘off’, but if he kept his initial plans to himself, no-one would have been the wiser.
  He was also clever in devising his plans and was convincing enough in his social demeanour not to raise any alarms although it is hard to believe that no-one in recent months noticed nothing –
  
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  March 21, 2019 7:34pm
- MickMac
  
  Than
  19.58
  Rock-Hardplace
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:00pm
waikatogirl

NZ is 8th on the list of 165 countries on the happiness scale.
Perhaps next week we can get back to feeling that way.
Have a great day everyone. ?
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March 21, 2019 8:06am
- Tall Man
  
  I’m still at a 1.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:29am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Good on you TM. Me too. ?
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:58am
- cmm
  
  Yup, NZ is still the same as it was on Thursday.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:10am
Chris R

The NZ haters are out in full force this morning led by Nigel Latta who seems to have special qualifications as an irritant. This morning he spouted about NZ society being fundamentally racist and bigoted. Do we really need this type of nonsense at this time particularly when there is an unstated belief that the PM has acted superbly? She hasn’t, she has willfully ignored NZ values to live out the pretense that all Muslims are within our society rather than living on its flanks. The events of CHCH are vile and evil and beyond the imagination of decent people but have they changed the teachings of radical Islam? More than likely not!
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March 21, 2019 8:07am
- Andrew Davies
  
  Soon after the despicable crime many Muslims described at length what a great country NZ is. Now we have fellow Kiwis, including elected representatives whose job is to serve us and whose salaries we pay, telling us how evil we are.
  Go figure.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:39am
- projectman
  
  Latta, having had some success with his first TV programme now thinks he is an expert on everything. Merely having a (relatively) high profile doesn’t make on that.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:42am
- Prince
  
  No doubt Latta sees a future TV series and healthy cheque from TVNZ convening a panel of carefully selected like-minded mates confirming his prejudices.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:18pm
- MickMac
  
  .
  Chris R
  20.04
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:07pm
AgainstTheFlow

NZ’s biggest victim group is attempting to wrestle back ‘primary victim’ status from the Islamic community this morning on RNZ.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/385226/maori-leaders-say-acts-of-terror-nothing-new-in-new-zealand

It’s all about market share.
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March 21, 2019 8:09am
- ztev
  
  Did he include before 1840 ?
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:11pm
Lee C

“There’s this theory that Winston Peters, despite his many terrible flaws, represents a lesser evil; that it’s better to have him out there grifting the elderly racists, using their votes as currency to gratify his own malevolent ego than having some genuine ethno-nationalist form a new party and rise to power.” (Danyl McGlaughlan, 2018).
And that’s how the woke generation get paid and get to sleep at night, I guess. I suppose that’s why they howl at Brash, yet are curiously silent about Peters?
Really, they are doing it for us…
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March 21, 2019 8:10am
- Happychappy
  
  It’s only hate when National or there supporters do it Lee C. You only have to look at the finger pointing at this blog to realise the playing field is not even now.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:21am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    I agree.
    
    I note that already people are being arrested and prosecuted in NZ for stating opinions (in various forms) that do not comply with those of the PC brigade.
    
    I notice also the silence from those normally the first to condemn such.
    
    Cowed?
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:02am
    - ztev
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      prosecuted for distributing materiel that has been classifies as highly objectionable by the Censor.
      That is the terrorists snuff video only.
      
      You think thats a matter of ‘opinion’.
      But you are ignorant about basic facts
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:38am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  have you seen what other politicinas were saying before last election.
  Woodhouse the Immigration minister was talking about
  1) Tightening rules
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/minister-announces-tightening-of-migration-rules/
  2)Kiwis first rules
  https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/woodhouse-unveils-kiwis-first-immigration-policy-new-work-visa-rules-b-202034
  “The government has a Kiwis first approach to immigration ..
  This was the national government saying the same things as Peters
  
  Even Seymour was – talking about Kiwi values for migrants – which is code for restricting Muslims as he phrases it as respect for women, LGBT etc
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:38am
  - srylands
    
    Yes that’s right. New Zealand First immigration policy has always been just the same as that of all other political parties in New Zealand. ?
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:46am
    - Happychappy
      
      We have to be allowed to keep pumping these stories on Winston Peter’s it is not hate when a person like Winston plays the election cycle with promises and lies.
      https://amp.rnz.co.nz/article/531b8b8a-56d0-4468-b241-3f22af0322f4.
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:12am
    - backster
      
      Wrong! Winston sold out our Immigration Policy to the United Nations cabal.
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:33am
    - ztev
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      He says that all the time . Other parties are stealing his policies
      And they do.
      
      I have the direct words of an national immigration minister saying its ‘Kiwis First ‘ and you divert ?
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:40am
      - srylands
        
        You are doing your specialty again. Twisting your so called “facts”. The NBR article you link to is about totally benign and sensible policy.
        
        “The government is committed to a “Kiwis first” immigration policy, making it harder for firms to hire overseas with new restrictions on temporary work visas for anyone earning less than the median wage, Immigration Minister Michael Woodhouse says.”
        
        You are citing this as evidence that it is anti immigration. It is simply an attempt to curb the influx of low skilled migrants. Of course the policy assumes the unemployed can be persuaded to get off the couch and man the night shift at gas stations.
        
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        March 21, 2019 11:13am
      - ztev
        
        Stopping low skilled migrants was labour policy, which national copied , then backflipped as the farmers still wanted low skilled workers to milk the cows
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:13pm
      - Prince
        
        He has no policies. His ‘manifesto’ last election was laughable – candidates were even sacked for supporting them.
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:21pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Shall we put the whole world before ourselves? Does the world put us before their own people?
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:30am
  - MickMac
    
    Why not Ztev?
    20:09
    Any ideology that holds women as inferior to men is not on and shouldn’t be encouraged in NZ.
    Even with the NZBORA.
    Women are equal to men….
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:11pm
- cmm
  
  Of course those comments are rubbish.
  
  Old blue-rinses bitching about their Filipino nurse are not picking up ARs and shooting up mosques.
  
  Casual racists (especially elderly) do not grow into murderers any more than litter louts do.
  
  The people that go to do these murders are 1 in 10 million people. They are not average. You do not address the extreme outliers by trying to supress, or address, day to day casual racism.
  
  On the Muslim side, something like 20% of the Muslims in UK want Sharia law in UK. To most of us that would be a pretty extreme view. Yet only a handful (relatively speaking) will actually get involved in an attack.
  
  To actually get to the point where you will do this requires you to stew in some very toxic juices for a long time.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:21am
  - MickMac
    
    CMN
    20:08
    it is in the low 30% for those in London under 35yrs of age.
    late 20% for those same to keep quiet and not tell the authorities of something going down.
    in the 20% for those who agree with violence against non Muslims.
    Pew Research wasn’t rem the report no off hand.
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:14pm
Blackbob

2nd one! will be interesting to see how long it takes to be…moderated. My comments here are few and far between but will eventually get down to zero I predict after the progressives witch hunts.
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March 21, 2019 8:11am
sooty

Didn’t Andrew Little, miss a blinder by been deposed!
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March 21, 2019 8:17am
Maggie Pie

With everything else thats been happening lately its easy to overlook the other thuings that affect us personally. Im referring to ‘Daylight Saving’, which seems to me to be going on far far too long. The last couple of weeks have been really dark and cold in the mornings and when i have to get Master 8 out of bed and ready for the schooll bus by 7am when it still dark, it does create behaviour problems.
Does anyone else think like me that it would be better if it ended the first week of March rather than April?
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March 21, 2019 8:18am
- secondcumming
  
  I blame *Peter Dunne* for making the ridiculous change.
  It’s alright for him…..he’s never had to get his arse out of bed before 9 in his life 😎
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:04am
- srylands
  
  I would prefer to have the daylight at the end of the day.
  
  The thing with daylight saving is that people have different lifestyles. So we won’t all agree.
  
  I thought Queenslanders were stupid for refusing to have daylight saving. Until last summer when I drove from Alice Springs to Brisbane. I wanted that sun down ASAP. ?
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:43am
  - ztev
    
    hahahaha . thats a clanger from srylands
    The sun is above the horizon for exactly the same length of time – daylight saving or not.
    How did you ever make a go of your life with a primary school view of the natural world.
    
    1 26
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    March 21, 2019 12:16pm
    - srylands
      
      WTF? What is wrong with you? What I wrote in that comment is perfectly cogent. I guess the good news is that you will be exited by DPF any day now. It is only a matter of time. [EDIT: I see you have been exited for a year :-)]
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:10pm
Stars And Stripes

Worst crimes you can commit in New Zealand at present:
1.Not being publicly sorry enough that someone else went on a rampage with a gun.
2.Saying you are proud of your European heritage.
3.Confessing to have fired a gun at some stage or even more heinous owning one.
4.Questioning government policy on immigration.
5.Turning down an invitation to attend a “karakia” for Christchurch.
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March 21, 2019 8:24am
- alex Masterley
  
  I am guilty of all 5.
  Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
  
  46 2
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  March 21, 2019 9:13am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Snap!
    
    And probably about a dozen more not on the list!
    
    Do I give a flying fk?
    
    27 2
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    March 21, 2019 9:58am
- sooty
  
  You forgot not doing a haka and supporting the mighty Crusaders.
  
  31 4
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  March 21, 2019 9:24am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Supporting their name change? I guess that will mean that there will be lots of collectibles and rebranding opportunities.
    
    14 0
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    March 21, 2019 10:34am
    - namron
      
      These attempts at name changes reminded me of a couple from around this part of NZ –
      Urewera = Burnt Penis
      Whataupoko = Tribal display of decapitated heads
      of defeated opponents up on poles Not suggesting any name changes, though.
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:04am
      - ztev
        
        Plenty of european names have been altered for cosmetic reasons
        
        You know Dùn Éideann well do you , not really as its the anglicised version of a Gaelic name
        
        I hear Matamata likes to call its self Hobbiton – outrageous isnt it , pandering I say !
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:25pm
- backster
  
  Being old and white.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:36am
- MickMac
  
  Stars
  20.14
  2,3,4…
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:16pm
mandk

‘Malevolent ego’ sums up Peters nicely.
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March 21, 2019 8:25am
Paulus Gnome

MSM making Islam into the new black

Nothing on the proceedings in the Northshore court tho-

How bizarre, strange times we live in
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March 21, 2019 8:25am
- JimBobJoe
  
  What is happening in the North shore court then?
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:23am
  - ztev
    
    What about the SFO case against the National party- as Simon says its ‘not my problem’- as he normally says to any issue that he cant blame on labour.
    
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    March 21, 2019 12:28pm
    - banksie
      
      We have a concept of innocent until proven guilty. The SFO case is happening because of the allegations of someone who definitely has personal reasons to alledge such activity. Doesn’t mean they are wrong but does mean waiting for actual evidence is a good thing.
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:08pm
    - Lizziep
      
      God you are so annoying, doyou ever shut up. You are like a child, one that never shuts up. Your parents must be so relieved when you are on site as then they might get some peace That is for Ziev
      
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      March 21, 2019 6:23pm
  - MickMac
    
    Jim
    Woodn’t you like to know?
    Don’t look in the papers…..
    
    and that is, a tragedy.
    for us all, least of all the victims and their families and whanau
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:18pm
- sooty
  
  Labour party media been paid off?
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:25am
- mandk
  
  Yes, our media to be indulging in irrational Islamophilia, ignoring the fact that, globally, Muslims are slaughtering other Muslims in large numbers on a daily basis.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:45am
  - MickMac
    
    Mank
    20.17
    That’s the real sadness isn’t it.
    thousands and thousands being butchered each year.
    41,000 attacks since 911.
    where’s the outrage?
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:20pm
hullkiwi

When is somebody going to say enough already.

This media/political witch hunt for non existant “alt right/extreme right white supremacist” groups in NZ is bordering on the ridiculous.

The butter behind the shootings was a “lone wolf” who subscribed to white extremist views. That is a long way from having evidence that NZ is a hotbed of such views and our country is full such people in such groupings.

In the past 48 hours I’ve seen, heard and watched a series of stories that are making NZ out to be a hot bed of old style South US extremists and racists, we are not and it is time for Kiwis to say “STOP!”.

Examples:
RNZ Monday – Ryan talking to a representative of the NZ Council of Islamic Women claiming her group had told parliament and the SIS that such groups existed in NZ and that they feared these groups. Her evidence was a leaflet circulated by a “group” in the Waikato with a website. When the SIS looked into the claims they found it was not a group of 150 kiwis, it was 2 local people linked to a UuS group.

2. Tuesday – Anne Salmon calling out white kiwis for their colonial oppression.

3. Wednesday – TVNZ Seven Sharp running a story about racist NZ – the story was the “experience” of 3 immigrants, topped up with views of Susan Devoy.

4. Red Radio again, Espiner interviewing a Waikato Lecturer. The way the interview went, it sounded as though the researcher had got their story mixed up. Because the lecturer admitted that it is almost impossible to detect white extremist groups in NZ. May be it is because they don’t exist.

Last Friday happened, there is a lot we don’t know about the how’s and why’s, but to paint NZ as extreme racists is wrong, and should stop before we damage our society further.
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March 21, 2019 8:30am
- Tall Man
  
  “Enough”.
  
  Please can we start our country up again?
  
  We do not need a month of mourning or self flagellation because one man went off his rocker.
  
  This continual witch hunt here and Australia has to stop. The sun came up this morning, a little late for Maggie, and the world is still going on around us.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:01am
  - SGA
    
    “one man went of his rocker” could mean he took off his clothes and went down the street whistling through his prick. Why not at least call it what it was “one man massacred 50 innocent people”.
    
    Is that worth a month of mourning or self flagellation? Maybe, maybe not. But let’s not diminish it or sanitize it that way, call a spade a spade.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:15am
    - Tall Man
      
      So please tell me, how many days mourning should the country perform for Sophie Elliot? How many for Blessie Kotingco? How many for Afa Brown or his family?
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/police-appeal-for-help-to-find-killers-of-dead-mangere-father-arthur-brown.html
      
      Stop trying to inflame my comment for something it is not.
      
      Please put your hand up if any of you thought “one man went off his rocker” meant a “nudie parade”.
      
      No, not you, we already know you’re an idiot.
      
      Now, move on.
      
      33 2
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      March 21, 2019 9:43am
      - SGA
        
        As I said, I have no idea what’s an appropriate amount of mourning for a massacre of this extent. It may, as you fear, get overdone. Neither do I want to play a game of deciding exactly how much worse this event was than Sophie Elliot’s horrible death. To me, that’s unproductive and bad taste.
        
        But let’s call a spade a spade.
        
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        March 21, 2019 9:55am
  - Belinda
    
    When will normal transmission resume in NZ?
    Will it be when the media decide they cant wring anymore sob stories out of this.
    It’s refreshing to come here and find some like minded people and even get a laugh over some of the posts.
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:03pm
- waikatogirl
  
  A Maori woman rang Peter Williams claiming 5 chemist workers were racist because they did not accept of her Kia ora. As the conversation expanded it became obvious they all knew each other and this woman had been in an employment dispute with them. So no, not racism, they just didn’t trust you or like you!
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:12am
- alloytoo
  
  The usual suspects are going to pile on the white guilt, white privilege, white etc etc etc.
  
  They can park their snowflakes.
  
  What I am is an incident of birth, and I refuse to subscribe to original sin, colonial sin, guilt or pride for that matter.
  
  I am responsible for my own actions (for better or worse) and I grant everyone else that privilege.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:20am
  - Richard
    
    Well said! Here, have 1000 up ticks! 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:37am
  - Tall Man
    
    It always amuses me when I get labelled as “old pale and stale”.
    
    According to my family tree we have mixed blood from quite a number of sources, not all white.
    
    My wife’s cousin also had the big DNA seaarch and uncovered Spanish DNA, probably from the “Spanish Armada” so almost certainly has “Moorish” DNA tucked away in there.
    
    I can’t alter the “old” but it does make me a little smarter than I used to be and after this summer, seriously…who is still “pale”?
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:51am
    - Wired-one
      
      It wouldn’t make a shred of difference if all of your ancestors were completely white. There is nothing wrong with being white, brown or black, people need to just get over themselves.
      
      20 0
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      March 21, 2019 10:55am
      - Tall Man
        
        As I said, it just amuses me when people try to use a “colour abuse” on me.
        
        Can I say “it doesn’t wash?”
        
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        March 21, 2019 11:47am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The ancient Irish are believed to have via Spain too.
      
      8 0
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      March 21, 2019 11:07am
      - ztev
        
        celtic , they were across most of Northern Europe in Atlantic coastal areas
        
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        March 21, 2019 12:32pm
- backster
  
  “The butter behind the shootings was a “lone wolf” who subscribed to white extremist views. “…..
  
  Get it right, don’t blame the wolves. It was a ‘Lone Dingo’.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:39am
  - hullkiwi
    
    backster very good. Though my predictive text phone, keeps making out he is oily by using “butter” instead of “nutter”.
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:05pm
sooty

How many ex PM’s have come back to sit in parliament, like Andrew Little as just an MP.
Normally I think they leave after a short time like Helen Clark.
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March 21, 2019 8:33am
- ztev
  
  Little was never PM
  
  Muldoon stayed for years
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:42am
- SGA
  
  As ztev noted, Little was never PM just an MP and ex-Leader of the Oppostion. A recent National Party equivalent would be Bill English would was replaced by John Key, but stayed on in parliament with significant ministerial responsibilites (including Dep PM).
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:07am
  - ztev
    
    English was replaced by Brash then Key then English again.
    
    1 5
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    March 21, 2019 12:34pm
    - SGA
      
      Brash! I’d forgotten about that, my bad. For some strange reason I first think of his cameo as ACT leader.
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:59pm
- srylands
  
  David Lange stayed in Parliament for 7 years after he resigned as PM. Apparently he needed the salary.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:48am
  - sooty
    
    I’m sorry ztev, I elevated Little above his station in life.
    I bet that he never becomes PM!
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:05am
Paulus

Has anybody heard about the Court Case against the Labour Party Youth fiddler.
Has it all now been wash away without anybody knowing ?
Was the case not scheduled for last Monday in the Lower Hutt Court.
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March 21, 2019 8:37am
- Poppa
  
  I thought I heard it was North Shore but not 100% sure that is correct
  
  It was this week
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:43am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The terrorism incident has stretched police resources- apparently a freeze on police numbers until before the last election meant we just dont have the numbers we should. Some trials have been postponed , but I think that case will likely be plea bargain and not a trial
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:45am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    Yes, we need more police to investigate and arrest people for watching a video and reading words.
    
    39 2
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    March 21, 2019 8:55am
    - ztev
      
      Its not reading words, its distributing a snuff video. Which is up to 14 years from our censorship laws.
      
      I bet you are one of the sickos that wanted to watch a snuff video that has killing of children and women
      
      The Mosque Ive seen yesterday had 2 cop cars outside,
      
      [DPF: And accusing someone of being a sicko who wants to watch snuff videos is a strike – number nine for you so a one year holiday]
      
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      March 21, 2019 12:39pm
      - Komata
        
        Re: [DPF: And accusing someone of being a sicko who wants to watch snuff videos is a strike – number nine for you so a one year holiday]
        
        Thank you DPF.
        
        21 2
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        March 21, 2019 2:14pm
      - Swifty
        
        That’s just terrible behaviour from ztev.
        
        Good grief – he just can’t control himself can he?
        
        One of Labour’s finest – and what does he do? Just makes factual mistake after mistake after mistake (just like the current government funnily enough) and smears, lies, doxxes people and writes the foulest slurs.
        
        Just terrible.
        
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        March 21, 2019 3:21pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        LOL, Ztevs gone for a full year. Now we just need Muttonbird to quickly catch up…. Has anyone noticed how much better the blog flows with out the mindless interjections of Stephieboy and Muttonbird. We can actually have a civilised debate. I havn’t even called any one a C &^% (yet).
        
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        March 21, 2019 8:09pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        The Labour Party and its cheerleaders can’t help themselves. Will Labour voters take a lesson, I doubt it, but if they do, I’m more than happy to chat about politics and life with them.
        
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        March 21, 2019 11:26pm
  - cmm
    
    Yet heaps of other court cases are still proceeding.
    
    When does squirrel season open? What’s the bag limit?
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:55am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    But there is public interest.
    
    14 0
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    March 21, 2019 11:01am
    - MickMac
      
      Rachael
      20:23
      Not from the Labour Party caucus 🙂
      
      1 0
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      March 21, 2019 8:25pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Plea bargains in NZ are settled between Police and offender. The Court is not a direct party. Police may withdraw charges or modify their intended statement of facts which the Court judges on. What the Police presents is very persuasive.
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:13am
- gravedodger
  
  I thought it was North Shore??
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:55am
- Happychappy
  
  You notice ztev not saying anything when before the last court hearing he had heaps to say, I wonder whether those in Labour whom are involved have put some pressure on to silence him on this subject.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:42am
  - Tall Man
    
    Nope, he was spouting elsewhere about it.
    
    Perhaps he may be concerned that a more agressive intelligence gathering effort within NZ may come to haunt him and his abusive ilk.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:41am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      perhaps the perpetrator had support people that were aught up in the massacre in CHCH and were thusly unable to attend?
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:02am
      - Tall Man
        
        You naughty person…
        
        5 0
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        March 21, 2019 11:48am
Maggy Wassilieff

Amongst the bleak news of the last week, I found a piece of gold.
Friends from Wellington had dropped by last month and mentioned they were off to Abu Dhabi this week to watch a son running in the Special Olympics World Games.
http://www.specialolympics.org.nz/Be-an-Athlete/Events-and-Games/Games/2019-World-Summer-Games.aspx
Their son picked up NZ’s first gold medal in the 200m.
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March 21, 2019 8:38am
thedavincimode

Sayonara all. I’ll be going.

In fact, I’m going under deep cover. Like really deep cover. I’ll let you know if I locate the redbladder’s secret training camp in the Kaimais.

nasska you sister shaggin’ knuckle-dragging prog h*** hillbilly, take it easy and try to keep JB in line.
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March 21, 2019 8:43am
- Tall Man
  
  I’m not sure why you are going.
  
  Moderation times will drop when more get on board and hopefully the flow of the discussions will become a little more in real time.
  
  I agree that this is a knee jerk reaction but just like nightly appearances in prime time of ardern the liar, it’s something we have to live with until 2020.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:39am
- Johnboy
  
  Bloody hell nasska’s not man enough to keep a redneck like me in line chap. It usually takes him you, nostra and stigie before any redirection sinks into my thick skull! 🙂 I was thinking of saying the same a day or so ago and may do yet but so far the moderation crap seems to be sort of working it’s just a bummer to wait so long for your quick riposte to appear! 🙂 Meanwhile I see the turd ztev has been banned until of course he returns under another name! All is not lost in our stardust covered Godzone just yet. Please oh please Leonardo reconsider your decision. KB will be a much lesser place without you old chap! 🙂
  
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  March 21, 2019 2:59pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Johnboy:
    
    It usually takes him you, nostra and stigie before any redirection sinks into my thick skull!
    
    And here I’ve been, all these years, thinking that Mikenmild had a certain way of influencing you! 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 6:39pm
slightlyrighty

Simon Bridges is in an unenviable position.

He is unable to critcise the government at this time, because the one thing the government is doing most publicly, would be political suicide to be on the wrong side of.

However, his expertise as a crown prosecutor could give him more of an opportunity to show his credentials in the next phase of this horrible and elongated moment in our history.

All he would have to do is state that as an ex crown prosecutor, I shall be watching proceedings with interest.
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March 21, 2019 8:48am
- Jude
  
  I admire Simon Bridges for going to Jacinda and offering to work with her to formulate new legislation around gun control.I really hope we see more of Labour and National working together which would lessen the impact of those minor parties on policy decisions.
  Would love to see a Labour National government next round.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:05am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Hey Jude, don’t make it bad”
    
    19 2
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    March 21, 2019 10:36am
  - Komata
    
    Jude@0905
    
    Re: ‘Would love to see a Labour National government next round’.
    
    Despite the Nats definte drift to the left, I would suggest that the likelihood of such an occurance is in the same category as seeing pigs flying unassisted and backwards…
    
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    March 21, 2019 2:19pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Perhaps “turncoat bridges” needs to have a bit of a think about nailing himself to the socialist cause.
    
    Punishing ordinary New Zealanders for their sport, or for “wrongthink” is not going to be forgotten quickly.
    
    best he thread that needle fast. Start stroking his chin, and talking about due process and sound legislation.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:22pm
- James Stephenson
  
  It’s tough when the fawn-ometer is as far off the scale for Cindy as it is at the moment.
  
  It’s good for my nausea levels to visit the kind of international forums where Kiwis are posting heart icons and Americans are giving it the “oh, she’s wonderful, can we borrow her please..” to make comments like “Yes, sure, how soon can you collect? She’s been flat useless at everything else she’s done since she was elected.”
  
  You should try it.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:09am
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Bridges never prosecuted a murder case – he wasnt a top flight prosecutor.
  A famous opening question was –
  “Mr Robertson, can we begin by agreeing you are a liar?”
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:45pm
  - David Farrar
    
    You are mistaken or lying. See https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105577690/pushed-into-politics-by-crime-nat-leader-simon-bridges-is-the-sum-of-his-parts
    
    My tolerance for your smears is near the end. You are very close to another strike
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:02pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Thanks for doing that.
      
      I am all in favour of freedom of speech but mindless, irritating slander stretches my intolerate mind. 🙂
      
      I also applaud your tolerance for a poster who viciously slanders you and your blog elsewhere. You are vastly more understanding than I which is one of the many reasons I did not offer myself as a moderator 🙂
      
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      March 21, 2019 6:34pm
  - Swifty
    
    Doh!
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:26pm
Yvette

One small question –
Will Tarrant have even been informed at this stage what is the exact number of people he has killed and injured?

If this utterly grotesque action is, at this point, all his life means, surely denying him the knowledge of how effective or not he has been (in his estimation) is similar to arresting Theresa May on March 29 2019 at 10.55 pm and never telling her if Brexit went ahead.

At the moment there must be a certain amount of leverage authorities have to ask Tarrant to explain “obscure” passages or clarify points of his manifesto, so that it is fully understood by officials.
They may suggest he would like to know Turkey’s reaction, that of ISIS, how much Givealittle has raised, the reaction of the general population – without telling him.

Either an information exchange, or inform Tarrant he will be denied what he must “yearn” to know, so subjecting him to a degree of living “death”.
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March 21, 2019 8:58am
- SGA
  
  He knows he killed lots of people, and I doubt that you are allowed to charge him for murders without telling im how many there were.
  If you want to upset, tell him about things like DPF’s post on Kiwiblog suggesting an increase in immigration, or that the muslim prayer will be played on State radio, and suchlike.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:13pm
waikatogirl

The Helen Clark Foundation a ‘think tank’
is launched today. The former PM and UN worker has never been slow in giving her opinion and has been wandering around looking in windows having her say since she left New York.

As Duncan Garner put it “nobody would employ Helen so she had to employ herself.”
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March 21, 2019 9:03am
- sooty
  
  Why?
  Is there something we do not know?
  Is she short of the readys?
  Why can’t she just STFU!
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:03am
  - Tall Man
    
    She’s currently in her element.
    
    The media hang on her every word, her little glove puppet, ardern the liar, is totally in awe of her and she gets to govern by default. She doesn’t even have to put up photoshopped hoardings anymore either.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:35am
- Paulus
  
  Have heard from my friends Retirement Village morning tea that they think that Mother Theresa/ Madonna should be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.
  With a brushed photo like that why not – she should be at the forefront of women in the world now.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:06am
- Rachael Membery
  
  I bet that was said in a caring way.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:06am
Chuck Bird

Are NZ Muslims now going to no longer going to hate homosexuals but now love them?

[DPF: This is a classic example of an unacceptable comment and any more like it will get a strike. Saying all NZ Muslims hate homosexuals is inflammatory and false. You could say the Koran has verses that denounce homosexuality (as does the bible) but alleging NZ Muslims hate homosexuals is nasty and unacceptable and not welcome here]
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March 21, 2019 9:04am
- projectman
  
  It’s time we moved past the current pervasive view that “love” is the answer. Of course it isn’t. It will go down as the most overused word of the year. Love and empathy are not the same thing.
  
  Let’s focus on what will really make a difference – an in terms of trying to prevent (or more correctly, minimise) the likelihood of future such occurrences the solutions are likely to be technical – surveillance, removal of some weapons types and so on.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:04pm
  - simpleton1
    
    Love at the moment sounds like the banging on an empty drum.
    
    For me real “love” is combined with “truth”, and in coping with “truth” and handling that, is to have “wisdom”.
    
    Easily said, not easily practiced, and for all us, something to learn, in more ways than one, in this life.
    I am not always “saint” like either. 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 2:34pm
- MickMac
  
  Chuck
  20:32
  DPF is correct there, that is slinging mud.
  
  You could have said that you hadn’t heard any authentic NZ Muslim leaders repudiating the Koran’s words on Homosexuality. (which means Muhammad as it is his words).
  
  Just as there are many Christian leaders who don’t repudiate the Bibles Teaching on Homosexuality.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:33pm
Random T Person

Witch hunting season in full flow. It’s technology’s fault, it’s facebook’s fault, it is every white person’s fault, it is racism’s fault (Islam is not a race).
Maybe, just maybe it is the gunman’s fault.
Also, find it weird that we’re not allowed to say his name. There’s something childish and boogeyman about that.
We sure do live in strange times.
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March 21, 2019 9:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You are allowed to say his name.
  It’s just that the PM and others have decided they wont.
  I think that’s daft… It gives Tarrant SPECIAL status.
  He is now going to gain greater notoriety as the “man whose name cannot be uttered”.
  If it wasn’t for the technology of the weapon he used, he’d be a bog-standard murderer.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:19am
  - Random T Person
    
    I’ve had a number of people mutter and mumble and say ‘ooh you can’t say the name’ in my professional interactions. Left me bemused.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:23am
    - Tarquin North
      
      I think Jacinda watched Harry Potter and is to scared to mention his name because she thinks she’ll get a headache.
      
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      March 21, 2019 9:45am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maggy, he’s still just a bog standard murderer in my opinion, useless and a waste of carbon.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Tarant by his writings reads like a certain German fellow that became Chancellor then expressed himself… Highly dangerous.
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:18am
    - MickMac
      
      Jev
      20:33
      I found his writing tedious and all over the place.
      
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      March 21, 2019 8:36pm
  - Colinxy
    
    Maggy,
    
    The sentiment certainly worked wonders for Herostratus.
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:14pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Nothing new under the sun, eh?
      and that was only with scraps of papyrus and word-of-mouth to tweet his crime.
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:06pm
  - Johnboy
    
    No you are not allowed to say his name Maggy! 🙂
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgCz9qNaVJY
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:11pm
    - Johnboy
      
      Isn’t it just so amazing how gunmen with no name become folk heroes later on? 🙂
      However the lovely Jacinda is a consummate politician applying all the skills Helen taught her! 🙂
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:20pm
- alloytoo
  
  The problem with Facebook is that it’s designed to lead you into an echo chamber where “likes” are more important than real discourse.
  
  It’s great that it can bring geographically separated people with similar interests and hobbies together.
  
  It’s horrible that it can bring geographically separated nut jobs with similar interests together.
  
  But it’s essentially the same function.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:26am
  - Random T Person
    
    Antisocial media is bad. Ego driven, makes people judge others extremely superficially, makes for ‘one-dimensional’ views of others, corrodes relationships, facilities warped views.
    And yet, very few people, even those who acknolwegde these shortcomings and their deleterious effect, and despite any and all egregious and illegal activity on the part of the antisocial media providers, will quit their addiction to essentially meaningless ‘likes and shares’.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:12am
- septic skeptic
  
  Islam is not a race, but Tarrant is a racist and this was most definitely a racist attack. I think the mosques were chosen because they are symbolic and offered a unique concentration of his intended victims.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:34am
  - Random T Person
    
    Tarrant probably also drinks coffee, so let’s round up the coffee drinkers.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:09am
    - Tall Man
      
      I saw him take a deep breath in court…..we’re all fucked.
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:32am
  - Random T Person
    
    BTW Septic, I upticked you as I agree. However, I also believe the driving force for this rampage was anti-Muslim-‘invader’ rather than race.
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:05am
- JamesP
  
  Also, find it weird that we’re not allowed to say his name. There’s something childish and boogeyman about that.
  True. Straight out of Harry Potter. And even those characters eventually came to the conclusion it was a bad idea.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:53am
  - Tall Man
    
    ardern the liar probably uses the series as aa “reference manual”.
    
    I’ll bet her nickname for “what’s in it for wynston” is voldemort…….
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:31am
    - Sacha
      
      You DO make me smile, Mr Tall Man.
      
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      March 21, 2019 12:01pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Glad to be of service in these silly days.
        
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        March 21, 2019 4:13pm
artemisia

Finance & Expenditure Select Committee cancelled this week at short notice. AFAIK no reason given. But Christchurch probably. Legislative programme should be more robust IMO. It is their day job.
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March 21, 2019 9:12am
lastmanstanding

I am very concerned and disturbed at some of the comments of the MSM both here and overseas. They are implying that there is a significant white terrorist threat lurking just beneath the surface.

I call this the Julie-Anne Genter mentality. To imply white males are bad the older they are the badder they are.

I say to them.

Since 2000 how many Muslim terrorist attacks have there been and what is the casualty count.

How many white terrorist attacks have there been and what is the casualty count.

Either back up your comments with facts or desist.

You are stirring up more hatred and will be responsible for nay Muslim retaliation attacks.
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March 21, 2019 9:16am
- Tall Man
  
  Which is why I posted the question..”sre we secretly embarrassed that we are as racist as susan devoy said”.
  
  Hopefully we are able to answer that with a resounding “NO” but I do wonder why so much angst at this tragedy and not others.
  
  I personally think it is just “virtue signalling” on social media so we can “impress” people by our tears…much like a certain mongrel called lundy.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:36am
- Maria
  
  It is the scapegoat mechanism trying to gather force. Worth learning about, anything by Rene Girard a great French philosopher. You are right, it is not a time of rational reflection and it is dangerous.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:38am
- waikatogirl
  
  I’ve noticed nearly everyone interviewed has voiced their disgust about the s0-called “right-wing” but all have been generalisations. Tarrant was on the fringes of whatever world he inhabited. He is a little man with a huge chip on his shoulder that took his warped opinion of the world and directed his hatred on a particular highly visual and easy targetted group. He could just as well have chosen a Maori gang, except they probably would have been able to defend themselves and he may not have survived to be arrested.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:11am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not neccessarily.
    
    Quite a while ago the mongrel mob decided to take the fight to the somalis. It did not end well for the mob. They like to bash and intimidate, somalis learned to fight to stay alive.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:30am
- banksie
  
  The wikipedia pages on this are a bit sobering. Just January of 2018 sees 180 attacks worldwide. By my count 36 attacks were not related to Boko Haram, Syrian Civil War or Islamic State with a smattering of other seemingly Islamic related groups.
  
  Figures here :-
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_January_2018
  
  I am probably conflating some groups that aren’t.
  
  White supremacy attacks are in the figures there but they are quite heavily drowned out. Heck I think Boko Haram *alone* drowns out the total number of white supremacy attacks be it by number of attacks or number killed/injured.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:11pm
  - Tall Man
    
    When they’re not scamming silly old men in NZ….
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:18pm
trout

It was only a matter of time before the Tangata Whenua, having heard politicians effusing ‘NZ’s darkest day etc.; had a ‘what about us moment’ – Parihaka and all that. If they want to compare ‘darkest days’ perhaps the ethnic cleansing of the Chathams and massacre of Mori Ori by invading Taranaki tribes would be way up there.
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March 21, 2019 9:17am
- Tall Man
  
  Now you’ve done it.
  
  Can’t wait to see the tidal wave coming at you 😉
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:37am
- alex Masterley
  
  Some-one will no doubt lodge a claim with the waitangi tribunal…
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:43am
- Komata
  
  trout@0917
  
  Ssssssshhhhh….
  
  Yo’re not supposed to know about such things, especially as ‘maori’ had no written language and can therefore deny all knowledge of such evens, saying that whatever is now taken as ‘accurate’ history is all made up by the racist white man in an attempt to denigrate and humiliate maori…
  
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  March 21, 2019 2:28pm
- GoVege
  
  I’m sure that Maori occupiers of the Chathams were still keeping Moriori slaves in 1864, the same year as the church burning in Taranaki.
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:26pm
- MickMac
  
  trout
  20:36
  Do you know the figures or is it too long ago?
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:38pm
mikenmildagain

Well, it is truly a special day today.
Not only is it the autumn equinox, but it is also:
Education Freedom Day, International Colour Day, the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, International Day of Forests, World Down Syndrome Day, World Puppetry Day, and World Poetry Day.

Stand by for a short poem, written on a beautiful autmun morning, celebrating free educational software, visual perception, the need to combat racial discrimination, and the relevance of trees, Down Syndrome and puppetry to modern life.
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March 21, 2019 9:23am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I can rely on Wikipedia
  It helps me view the thing
  That is so much more important
  As from hate our forests bring
  People of every kind
  Abled in varied ways
  To dance, but not as marionettes
  Through the autumn days
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:40am
- rangitoto
  
  Solar declination of date right now : +0.0.3.1″ – Oh noes. Summer is over till next time.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:43am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    For the esoteric among us:
    
    https://sciblogs.co.nz/out-of-space/2019/03/20/does-the-earth-have-a-naturawe-are-generally-habituated-to-using-the-greenwich-meridian-as-the-global-standard-for-mapping-and-time-keeping-despite-it-being-only-135-years-since-its-adoption-as-i-sh/
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:55am
    - rangitoto
      
      I saw that. Donald will be demanding the prime meridian is moved immediately.
      
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      March 21, 2019 1:44pm
    - Evadne
      
      Interesting. Thanks!
      
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      March 21, 2019 10:01pm
Richard

I see from the news that mourning family here in ChCh are starting to get worn down by the constant media attention and want time to themselves. Fair enough. Time for the MSM to back off please. I‘ve also had business owners telling me their staff have been confronted by media cold calling asking of any staff affected by the shootings, their contact details etc. Staff instructed to refuse any of these requests. Protection of employee privacy is standard. This cold calling needs to stop ASAP. NZ is a small place and the NZ MSM community even smaller. Certain Media organisations and individuals could easily ruin their careers and reputations if they carry on like this and complaints start heading to the BSA and indirectly out to the general public. Back off MSM. Stop trying to milk people for tears. Just report the facts please.
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March 21, 2019 9:29am
Maria

This terrorist act has clearly created a psychological crisis in New Zealand. The blame game, the witch hunts, the scrutiny.

Societies in crisis fall into the scapegoat pattern. Unsolvable conflicts real or apparent repeat the cycle of scapegoating until satiated and the conflict is abated and peace restored. It is a dangerous time.

I think it is worth understanding this scapegoat mechanism expounded by the French philosopher Rene Girard. It is the way evil perpetuates itself in societies without imploding them. Helpful to reflect on.
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March 21, 2019 9:34am
Harlequin

Two minutes silence?

Our thousands of war dead only get one.

Enough!
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March 21, 2019 9:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

How to justify your own take on climate-change… by linking it to the Christchurch Mosque massacres

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/19/why-youll-never-meet-a-white-supremacist-who-cares-about-climate-change
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March 21, 2019 9:39am
- srylands
  
  Good grief.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:50am
- Tall Man
  
  Saw a comment last Friday referencing this march wondering how many actually walked to the protest rather than have mummy drive the 4wd so the wee petals didn’t get tired…….
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:53am
Chuck Bird

Benjamin Franklin once said: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
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March 21, 2019 9:55am
- mikenmildagain
  
  He also said something about you, Chuck:
  ‘We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.’
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:44am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Ah Mikey…. you’ve been working very hard indeed it seems…
    
    Evidence: Supports HOBM… now that’s just done when infinitely better clubs abound like Petone…
    
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    March 21, 2019 7:48pm
sooty

Peter Williams on Magic has returned after a holiday. What a nut job. Just as well he was not on the radio from friday onwards. Listerned for a few minutes and turned him off. Won’t be going back to his show, worse than Kerry. Blissful silence now.
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March 21, 2019 9:59am
- marcw
  
  Sooty, today it is still Brendon on in the morning. yes, they sound similar, but definitely only one is my preferred host. Your criticism of Williams today is therefore not justified.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:35am
  - sooty
    
    I thought it was a different a different person from the rest of the week, he was so over the top and saying stupid coments!
    You would have thought he was a snowflake.
    Maybe he’s just woke!
    
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    March 21, 2019 12:56pm
- dave_c_
  
  Don’t forget Garner – His arrogant and ‘speaking down to’ , ‘know it all’ attitude towards the Turkish correspondent this morning was outrageous.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:48pm
Simon

The government has $90 billion in investment funds.

Are we gonna see any of that?
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March 21, 2019 10:02am
Fletch

I can’t help but feel unease in my gut over the repercussions of this attack, the ripples of which seem to be spreading far and wide.

We have the “two minutes of silence” on Friday – not a bad thing in itself, but during which we are being encouraged to wear head scarfs (a symbol of repression/oppression of women in Middle Eastern countries). Do people just not understand that? Even my brothers workplace has sent a memo over Facebook encouraging staff to wear scarves. And all this while the Muslim “call to prayer” is sung in Parliament. I am fully in favour of supporting the Muslim community through these tough times, but some of this is taking it a bit far.

Then we have an “expert” on TVNZ this morning saying that the govt should be able to have the power to shut off Facebook during certain times.

“Ultimately I think we have to have the power to remove social media from the internet perhaps for periods as does the Broadcasting Standards Authority in the case of radio and television in extreme cases.”

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/expert-calls-independent-social-media-regulator-in-wake-christchurch-terror-attacks

As someone commented on Facebook under the story, “welcome to North Korea”.

Then there’s Jacinda’s ban on semi-automatic weapons. I’m not a gun owner. I can’t remember the last time I fired a gun, so I have no vested interest, but it seems just another erosion of freedoms. New Zealand’s gun laws are already much stricter than anywhere else in the world. My dad owned a gun when he was on the farm, and to renew his license the Police came around and interviewed him, and interviewed the whole family, asking about my dad’s temperament, whether he was ever quick to anger etc. It seems to me that there is a very thorough vetting process.

Every new day deepens this sense of unease…
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March 21, 2019 10:10am
- projectman
  
  And isn’t it interesting (or should I say hypocritical) that the call to prayer to be sung in parliament comes from our prime minister who opposed continuation of the opening prayer in parliament.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:15pm
  - dave_c_
    
    True to form ! Ha !
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:45pm
sooty

I am losing interst fast here!
It’s bloody annoying to have a conversation with a bloody long time between post coming out of moderation and by then six people have answered and you don ot get the flow of the converation!
Will I stay? Don’ think so!
It’s like the radio getting turned off, I just don’t need to put up with shit in my life!
Why should I?
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March 21, 2019 10:11am
- Dave Mann
  
  Same here. The ‘flow’ has totally gone from Kiwiblog.
  
  It’s especially wierd that DPF has strangled comments on his blog, despite the fact that the almost universal response to this outrage from commenters was horror and revulsion…. a far cry from any hint of ‘right wing’ Muslim hating or ‘white supremacist’ chatter.
  
  Either DPF has totally lost his sense of perspective, or there are some very dark forces exerting heavy pressure on him.
  
  We’ll probably never know.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:51am
  - dave_c_
    
    I agree the flow has gone.
    However, I understand that pressure to tow a political line is the easy card to play under such circumstances. Lots of bovver, and no real change.
    Sure ban the seriously heavy weapons, but don’t ban speech and discussion.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:44pm
    - Batman
      
      Some of the stuff that people post here is downright cheap n nasty.
      
      Comments lumping all Muslims together as extremists, homophobic comments, personal abuse of a sexual nature, and simply offensive.
      
      The moderation is pretty light, and pretty fast it would seem
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:03pm
- lifesgood
  
  This is my first post since Tuesday and will be my last, at least for a while until the hysteria settles, maybe. I had such a lovely day yesterday not looking at KB and getting heaps more done. I’ve really enjoyed this blog so feel sad but also pleased with my decision not to post. The nonsense being spouted in the msm and by the govt at the moment is too much to bear. Anyone would think every muslim in the world is an absolute saint but I can’t stop thinking about the 150 Christians slaughtered in Nigeria over the last 3 weeks. I plan to read more, enjoy my garden more, feed the birds, walk on the beach and just be grateful that I live in this amazing country. See you later all and thanks for the pleasure of your company.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:53am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Sorry to see you go. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts.
    
    I’ve also been away from Kiwiblog a lot more since this stupid virtue signalling started and I’ve limited myself now to the occasional quick scan and hardly any comments anymore.
    
    Go well. I think many have followed you without saying adios.
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:20am
  - MickMac
    
    14.23
    Lifesgood
    I understand completely.
    be well and safe.
    
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    March 21, 2019 2:15pm
sooty

If we walk away, have the left won?
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March 21, 2019 10:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Only in your own mind.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:37am
  - Tall Man
    
    Whereas the left are of one mind and from what I see from yourself and others you certainly don’t think for yourselves?
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:01pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Of course they will have won.
  
  The left are capitalising on Tarrant’s craven actions and are using the Christchurch massacre as justification for all the issues/ideologies they wish to pursue.
  
  If you want to get off being moderated, then you have to email D.Farrar with details of your identity/alias and request his permission to get auto-approve status.
  If you wish to gain this status change your user profile (if necessary) to display your real name or a link to your identity and e-mail editor@kiwiblog.co.nz with your username. If I verify you, I will give you auto-approve status.
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/03/moderation_changes.html
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:04am
  - marcw
    
    After the news of what has happened to ‘Macdoctor’, anyone who is sane enough to post intelligent comments here will no doubt be reconsidering. The thought police are amongst us – hopefully in the coming days they will be issued with their brown shirts so we can avoid them.
    
    What right does a ‘professional’ organisation have to publicly out their members while an investigation (from an anonymous complainant) is under way. Frightening insanity.
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:20am
    - Dave Mann
      
      marcw, could you please give us more details of what has happened to Macdoctor.
      
      I have no info on this at all and I’ve read nothing about it, so your information (if it gets past the new thought police) would be much appreciated.
      
      Thanks.
      
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      March 21, 2019 11:44am
      - Tall Man
        
        Immediately suspended.
        
        Choice eh?
        
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        March 21, 2019 4:02pm
    - GoVege
      
      Apparently Macdoctor’s comments were made 2 years ago, about the time of the terror attacks in France.
      They seem to have been fairly mild in any case.
      A very worrying reaction this week in terms of freedom of speech.
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:34pm
      - artemisia
        
        Yes a concern alright. However I have read quite a lot of posts from Macdoctor over the years and am confident he will not be crying into his beer.
        
        Also a concern that so much information on an employment matter was made public, whether from the employer or not. How is that natural justice?
        
        I hope we hear the end result of the investigation though, especially the employer’s reasoning (if any).
        
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        March 21, 2019 4:38pm
  - mara
    
    Maggy it’s Farrar’s blog so he sets the terms. If he were a raving nutter would he also be able to set the terms? No. So already authorities have decided that erring on the side of caution in defence of Islam is OK but erring on the side of criticism of Islam is not. There is discrimination right there. I have enjoyed posting freely here for years and will be buggered if I have to beg for authority to post without moderation by people I have never heard of. Sad as it is to see KB constrained, on principle I’d rather walk away than join the control movement.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:35pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      Sorry to see you go mara. Come back when hopefully things get back to “normal.”
      
      I can only say that those who wish to control others must have very sad little inward lives. “Woke” my arse, they are narcissistic and judgemental control freaks.
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:06pm
      - Johnboy
        
        Quite so. I’d love for DPF to post the three or four that have instantly volunteered to be moderators. 🙂
        I’m almost certain it would give many of us a “Wake-up’) call! 🙂
        It’s always the turds who wish to reduce free-speech that are the first to offer to moderate it! 🙂
        Seeing we are in the new zone of censorship here David can you please let all of us know who were the first to step up to censor it? Thanks old chap. :).. Post their names in order of application please with time stamp if you would! 🙂 Cheers. 🙂
        
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        March 21, 2019 5:26pm
      - Peter Lane
        
        I’m one of the ‘turds’ and have no desire to deprive anyone of their rights to free speech.
        
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        March 21, 2019 5:39pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Peter Lane:
        
        I’m one of the ‘turds’ and have no desire to deprive anyone of their rights to free speech.
        
        Thanks for identifying yourself as a moderator – full respect frome me, and hopefully the other 2 will follow suit.
        
        Can I ask if you agree with what Johnboy said yesterday?
        
        Moderator names starting with “Pete” should automatically be erased Nostra!
        
        More seriously, what approach to moderation do you propose to take? How will you decide if a comment is “acceptable” not?
        
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        March 21, 2019 5:55pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  YES
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:20am
Yvette

Police Commissioner Mike Bush has revealed that … within 21 minutes, the person now in custody was apprehended and arrested by two police officers.

The video that Tarrant himself has provided of his actions is apparently 17 minutes long. Given there is “run-in” time between him picking up his weapon (that much is shown on MSM television) to the first shots that prompted 111 calls, so the start of Bush’s timings, there must still be a considerable portion of the total killings on the recording.

Was Tarrant still wearing the camera when arrested, and technology provide a tract that proves it the source of the video?

Surely a court case need only establish the video is a record of Tarrant’s shooting and relating that to evidence police must have now of those fallen in the mosque – the Tarrant video shows this person hit and Police investigation of the mosque found the person dead as a result of the injuries suffered – determines sufficient murders to sentence to a term lasting the rest of his life.
Why need there be extensive court case?
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March 21, 2019 10:15am
- Random T Person
  
  Due process is important. You can’t suspend precedent, because that then sets a dangerous precedent itself.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:10am
  - Yvette
    
    Random T Person – I appreciate your point that due process is important.
    
    The accused, by the words of his own manifesto, has stated already that he will plead ’not guilty’, but is he going to deny that the video footage was arranged by him, and is of his actions?
    
    I would still argue, if the video records shootings which independent police evidence confirms resulted in deaths, what other evidence is required? I assume in similar fashion, there will be plenty of eye witnesses who saw him shoot people and that they fell dead or dying.
    
    All his self-confessed planning reveals it is premeditated murder, unless some technicality says because he didn’t know who he was shooting point blank, is some form of accidental chance, so manslaughter.
    
    Why should it take weeks or months?
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:28am
    - Random T Person
      
      I can’t answer any of those questions, but I can say that legal due process is necessary if you do not want to unleash a barrage of appeals, etc. It has to be done properly.
      
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      March 21, 2019 12:16pm
      - sooty
        
        There should be only one journalist at the trial , live feeding and they can share off that.
        
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        March 21, 2019 1:00pm
      - sooty
        
        Don’t need all the fat heads trying to out do each other.
        Report the facts, not your opinion!
        
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        March 21, 2019 1:01pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    When a situation so vastly different from ever envisaged occurs it is reasonable to change the rules to accommodate it. On the basis of the video alone and a few witnesses the trial could be finished in a day. Too many families have been damaged to allow the offender the platform he seeks to continue his campaign. He is outside all norms and we may need to suspend the regular conventions likewise. Urgent Parliamentary empowering legislation may be merited or required.
    
    I have a great respect for the rule of law and a quick change may be needed to see that speedy justice is done.
    
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    March 21, 2019 7:39pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Can you imagine the media and the court case? When would it be likely to be heard?
  Around election 2020?
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:22am
  - Tall Man
    
    If labour can string it out that far. However, this may well be a little more embarrassing to ardern the liar as time goes on.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111438784/changes-to-gun-law-overseen-by-jacinda-ardern-described-as-crazy
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:53pm
- freethinker
  
  Not heard that time line before but even assuming the 21 minutes started after he left the Hagley Ave Mosque – Hagley to Linwood is 7.7Kms 15 mins travel and Linwood to Strictland St 5.1Kms 10 mins travel and how long at Linwood Mosque???
  It was reported that an intervention by a passer by in Linwood and using a discarded gun to smash the windscreen of the offender vehicle raises questions as the vehicle in Strictland street did not have a broken windscreen unless it was the rear one.
  The amount of Police presence and continuing Police Helicopter activity makes me wonder if there is another suspect being sought – Police comment would be helpful. It does seem likely that the Ashburton Mosque was a possible target as the offender lived in Dunedin and there appears to be no Mosque in Timaru. Post not intended to be anything other than genuine interpretation of what has been reported.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:25am
  - Swifty
    
    Still think the shooting livestream was not authentic freethinker?
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:36am
    - freethinker
      
      Read my post the point is not if there was shooting just was it one person – I saw the original video at the time and the news that night of the Mosque interior confirmed the live stream was genuine.
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:46pm
      - Swifty
        
        Good man.
        
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        March 21, 2019 5:52pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Time will tell.
    
    More importantly will the Hurricanes win this weekend?
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:57pm
unaha-closp

Some timing is interesting. If an anti-immigrant 28 yr-old Aussie arrived here in late-2017, just as NZ elected probably the most anti-immigrant government in the southern hemisphere, would anyone care to guess what attracted him to NZ?
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March 21, 2019 10:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Would that be the same ‘anti-immigrant government’ that is continuing to operate the largest per capita planned immigration policy in the OECD?
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:42am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    So not following through on their campaign promises?
    
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    March 21, 2019 11:24am
  - Tall Man
    
    If so, which I doubt as all ardern the liar has done is make promises which we all have to then discern if they were made a leader of labour, as a labour mp or as a prime minister, then is it a breach of a campaign promise or just a lie as she never intended to follow through with the promise?
    
    I mean, it’s just so confusing trying to decide if ardern is a liar or and idiot or a lying idiot…
    
    You decide.
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:52pm
    - sam green
      
      She’s a better man than you shorty.
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:37pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      But Tall Man, someone from the left was stating a week or so ago that whatever Cindy promised during the election was not a promise that she could be held accountable for – that was then and this is now…or some such bollocks. Liars always have an excuse. ?
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:19pm
Rodney Randall

As this socialist government looks to politicise the Chch tragedy, some wise words are never far away:

Aristotle said, “One thing no government can do, no matter how good it is, is to make its citizens morally virtuous.”

“Simple logic will lead anyone with a basic understanding of human nature to realize that a society in which everyone is always nice to each other is impossible. It has never existed-and will never exist-because it can’t exist.” – Izzy Kalman

“Ironically, some of the most intolerant, offensive people you can find are ones who most forcefully insist that we need to create a society in which no one is intolerant or offensive.” – – Izzy Kalman
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March 21, 2019 10:33am
- Tall Man
  
  Very apt.
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:48pm
Bill felt

Time for a baby story:

Congrats to Rebecca and Simeon Brown MP for the arrival of their little girl – Anna Sarah Brown. Mum and bub doing well.
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March 21, 2019 11:05am
Yvette

A senior Auckland doctor has been immediately stood down pending an investigation by his employer into vile anti-Islamic rants which were posted on the right-wing blog Whale Oil.
A number of people viewing the posts, written well before the Christchurch mosque attacks, contacted the Herald in disgust.
The posts are still online.
After the Herald approached the medical centre for comment yesterday morning, an internal investigation was launched […]
“The only thing we are able to tell you at this time is that it appears that [the doctor] made these comments two years ago in response to an international incident,” the spokesperson told the Herald.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214799
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March 21, 2019 11:14am
- Dave Mann
  
  Many thanks for the elucidation, Yvette.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:54am
- Jules99
  
  Thanks for the Herald posting what he said. Didn’t look ‘vile’ to me – he was expressing an opinion that many hold, even some Muslims.
  
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  March 21, 2019 2:26pm
  - burt
    
    We must all learn to embrace FGM now.
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:20pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Self appointed censors want to rule our thoughts and deeds.
    
    How about someone with access searches through this blog for the more offensive posts from the many abusive posts from some of our own lefty loonies.
    
    Could we all withstand having our previous comments from years ago in reaction to certain events re-examined in the oppressive mood of today?
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:44pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Those quoted comments are the issue? And lead to him being stood down from work when posted under a blog handle and not connected in any way to his work???
  
  Serious witch hunt material there.
  
  If he losses his job over those comments then the Employment Courts will be getting a work out by his lawyers I would think…
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:00pm
cmm

There are some things that the “let’s blame ourselves” crowd are missing.

This was not a domestic incident, but an international one played out on NZ soil. It was a reaction to incidents mainly in Europe/Uk (eg. Rotherham) and really nothing to do with incidents in NZ.

NZ was chosen specifically because it is a very safe place for all, including Muslims, and the murderer wanted to send a message. If they can attack Muslims in the very safe NZ then they can be attacked anywhere.

Likely some consideration was also given to his own safety. Our cops are more restrained and he had a greater chance of being arrested and living to promote his message.

We need to view this (albeit warped) reasoning through his eyes and come to the conclusions that:
* NZ was chosen specifically because it is, and remains, a very safe country.
* This is global, not domestic. Copy-cat incidents are far more likely to happen overseas than here. Unfortunately this incident has set some body count records that others might see as a challenge to top.
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March 21, 2019 11:18am
- MickMac
  
  CMN
  I concur.
  
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  March 21, 2019 2:19pm
- GoVege
  
  I’m sure the killer chose NZ because the cops here are not armed and he was far less likely to meet the same fate as his victims.
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:36pm
  - ABS
    
    I would assume that’s also why he waited until all the cops in Christchurch stopped being armed, which as luck would have it for him was 4 days earlier, rather than choosing the Ides of March for a particular reason.
    On an unrelated note, I seem to be seeing a LOT more cops on the streets here in the Hutt Valley.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:11pm
Hugh Pavletich

…essential reading…

Major infrastructure partnership for North Auckland
.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/major-infrastructure-partnership-north-auckland
.

…Hugh Pathetic in the news…
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=hugh+pavletich&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixsr7Fv_DeAhUFeysKHa69A-gQ_AUIDigB&biw=462&bih=410
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March 21, 2019 11:20am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Apologise… Autocorrect. Pavletich.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:20am
  - Tall Man
    
    Nope, right first time.
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:35pm
    - Swifty
      
      Snort! 🙂
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:56pm
    - double d
      
      Fucking brilliant!
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:50am
- Rachael Membery
  
  lol, now that was funny, thanks moderators for letting it through
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:27am
- Swifty
  
  Hahahahahahahaha!
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:35am
- Nostradamus
  
  Hugh:
  
  …Hugh Pathetic in the news…
  
  Oh dear – autocorrect you say? 🙂
  
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  March 21, 2019 5:57pm
skyblue

GDP at 0.6%. That is 0.9% for the second half of 2018. Sure is Robertson’s economy now. Most of the productive industry barely grew or shrank. Household spending increased, party due to extra welfare I am picking.

Where will the money for all the bribes come from now?
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March 21, 2019 11:22am
rangitoto

Rudaw report:

“BAGHOUZ, Syria – Their battle against the last jihadists holding out in the besieged Syrian village of Baghouz hasn’t quite ended but Kurdish-led fighters have already started celebrating.

When they returned from the front on Tuesday, they put the lamb skewers on the grill and broke into dance as the radio of their battered truck sputtered a Kurdish tune.

….

The Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) delivered the killer blow to the last vestige of the Islamic State group’s “caliphate” this week and the end of the bruising six-month-old operation is now within touching distance.”
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March 21, 2019 11:23am
- projectman
  
  I wonder if they’ll get the message that they need to “love” each other.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:21pm
MrTips

Oh dear, this is not on message. Of course Ardern and the committee are not to blame, but it does seem the order in council caught everyone unawares.
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March 21, 2019 11:33am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Oh dear, how embarrassing.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:43pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Standard operating stupidity by this coalition.
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:37pm
    - sooty
      
      Oh dear. The woke left are not going to be happy! They have beeb baying at the moon about how shit the gun laws are and all along JacinDUH was the one to make the law worse!
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:46pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Glossed over on TV One News.
        No home vetting of Tarrant by the police, it seems.
        Looks like his on-line buddies provided references.
        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/gun-licensing-procedures-not-followed-christchurch-mosques-attack-accused-ex-arms-control-officer?variant=tb_v_1
        
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        March 21, 2019 7:23pm
cmm

Herald reporting: “Isis threat ‘real’: Why the show of solidarity from New Zealanders is critical, according to Paul Buchanan”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214788

So how much of this grief and reaching out is genuine and how much is just window dressing to appease ISIS etc?

Sorry ISIS, if we really really grovel, will you please not send your Jihadis…. please…

Now there clearly is much genuine grief at the personal level. Christchurch is small and most people are going to be one or two degrees of separation form a victim. eg. One of my son’s lecturers was in the mosque but was not shot.

But some of the response might just be a bit over the top and stage managed.
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March 21, 2019 11:41am
- David Farrar
  
  I think it is the most natural thing in the world to have grief at the murder of 50 people, even if you didn’t know them. It is really silly to suggest people are grieving just so ISIS won’t respond. Our response will have no impact on ISIS.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:09pm
  - cmm
    
    DPF: Yes, there is certainly much genuine natural grief and shock and I am not at all suggesting that the tens of thousands of people that are attending these events in are anything but genuine. I am very sorry if I gave that impression.
    
    But the is concerning that there are suggestions we have to put on a show to appease Isis.
    
    I quote: “A security expert says New Zealand’s strong show of solidarity and support for its Muslim community after Friday’s attacks is key to keeping the country safe from any revenge attacks.”
    
    Whether or not Isis is appeased is up to the workings of Isis-thinking. I suspect you are correct and our actions have little appeasing effect.
    
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    March 21, 2019 12:32pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    Sorry DPF, but I disagree with you that its natural to ‘grieve’ for the murder of 50 people who you don’t know. Sure, you can be outraged (as any normal human being should be) and you can act to show solidarity and sympathy for the victims…. but lets not confuse grief with OTT handwringing.
    
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    March 21, 2019 12:57pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      It is terrible, awful and tragic what that Aussie Tarrant did to the muslim community and our little country. I am so sorry for them and wish the media would leave them alone to grieve in peace, like anyone of us would prefer!
      
      300 dead after cyclone hit Zimbabwe and neighbouring countries. I feel awful for them too. I even feel sympathy, pity and I’m empathetic.
      
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      March 21, 2019 1:34pm
    - cmm
      
      Dave Mann, I disagree with you there.
      
      I guess you could be technically right depending on how you choose to define grief.
      
      If you want to define grief as a response to direct loss, you might be right. However grieving in its more abstract form (ie. empathetic) is very real at least to those that experience it.
      
      While I expect not so many people directly know someone that was killed, many are separated by one or two degrees and will still experience loss.
      
      For example, one of my son’s lecturers was in the mosque and there is an indirect emotional connection even though I have never met the man.
      
      Remember this comes in a bitch of a decade for Christchurch that started with the 2010/11 earthquakes. Many people took years to emotionally recharge from that. It took years before you’d see genuine smiles and fun in people’s eyes. As a result, the coping bucket is still a bit empty.
      
      Yesterday I drove past a school which had lost a pupil and posters etc were hung on their fence. It made me immediately rewind to seeing similar after things after the earthquakes. It ripped a scab off that wound as I recalled two people I knew that died in the earthquakes.
      
      There is genuine grief, but I am still concerned there’s an expectation we have to put on a “show” to appease Isis.
      
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      March 21, 2019 2:27pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I don’t think ISIS give a stuff what you and others think or feel.
        
        They are motivated by outdated hatred.
        
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        March 21, 2019 3:33pm
      - Dave Mann
        
        Hi cmm. We’ll have to agree to disagree then.
        
        I view grief as the terrible sadness at a personal loss. A yearning to see a person again, or the loss of companionship from a workplace from which you have been made redundant, or the emotional pain of losing a limb.
        
        None of this applies here. As MicMac so aptly said below, you can be appalled but ‘grieving’ is the wrong description..
        
        Those who display inappropriate grieving for people they have never met are probably emotionally vulnerable and thus perfect fodder for the kind of manipulation that we are seeing now in New Zealand.
        
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        March 21, 2019 4:28pm
    - SGA
      
      @Dave Mann
      Grief is a profound feeling of sadness or sorrow typically following a death. From what I can tell, plenty of people are feeling that. Not just because 50 innocent people were killed, but particularly that such a massacre should happen here in Christchurch. Such emotions don’t preclude feeling other things like outrage and anger at the same time.
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:45pm
  - MickMac
    
    DPF 11.42
    Whilst I understand your comment, as this is in our backyard and could actually happen to anyone we know and Love. It was and is a reprehensible attack.
    No one should lose their life like this ever.
    
    I am appalled but NOT grieving.
    The reason is, I’m out of grief for others, as I’ve read this same thing again and again every week for the past decade or more as happening to others elsewhere in the world.
    (Gatestone Institute, Barnabusfund)
    Maybe not 50 at a time.
    but every week in different countries.
    
    and it seems no one cares and suppresses the reason for the genocide (for it goes on week after week after week) Standover, robbery, rape, murder, discrimination and horrible treatment by politicians, police, govt and their neighbours………..
    
    If I grieve it is for our country and our place space, that the darkness others have to content with each and every week has come here.
    I do, I really do.
    For what I thought we had here was special albeit a little bit lefty centric (but I could put up with that).
    
    The offender?
    A white man certainly, an Australian, a lefty, righty,athiest fascist,greenie,(his writings all over the place) but definitely an evil person.
    but NOT a Kiwi.
    and He could have been someone else but wasn’t.
    
    So I am appalled to the deepest part of me, but not grieving…..
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:56pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Weekly”…Daily I’m sad to say.
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:30pm
The only red for me is that of Manchester United

Facebook jumped the shark a few years ago when a review of their censorship policies said that they allowed beheading videos on their website as it prompted “discussion”, yet a naked female breast wasn’t allowed to be shown. A naked breast can be a thing of beauty and doesn’t always have to be connected to pornography.

Dialogue around being able to “flick a switch” to cut off Facebook and other social media when a government deems it necessary are hugely worrying to the democracy of the internet. Facebook is a company. No one owns the internet. The New Zealand Herald 12 Feb 2019 published a story on Russia preparing for tests where they could disconnect from the world wide web, but still be able to provide it internally. All internet traffic being monitored and re- routed by the Russian Government, just like in China. What’s App and Facebook Messenger are platforms greatly used by criminals as they use encryption so the law enforcement agencies can read your messages. Both platforms are also great ways of communicating with friends overseas.

The aftermath of what has happened in Christchurch makes me feel as if I’m in a Simpsons episode in a Douglas Coupland novel. A want to disconnect our nation social media is deeply frightening. It drives people to use the dark web and that is a very scary place. An open and transparent government wants to bring down a digital curtain on democracy.

P.S Huge thanks to those who have stepped up to being moderators.
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March 21, 2019 12:02pm
- ztev
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “. An open and transparent government wants to bring down a digital curtain on democracy.”
  
  What nonsense, the police are after those who distribute by sending it on ( not just watch but thats awful too) a snuff video.
  
  if you think doing that with the video is OK then you are a twisted individual. I can see moderation is a tricky process but that sort of advocacy should at least get a warning strike.
  
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  March 21, 2019 12:52pm
  - The only red for me is that of Manchester United
    
    I did not refer to the video and it’s distribution. I agree with you that people who save or distribute should face criminal action. I’m concerned about the democracy of the internet and the willingness of a government to have the ability and control to block certain websites and block content. It drives it all to the dark web. Radical groups don’t use Neighbourly.
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:50pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Correct assessment I think.
      
      The question is, who determines what is acceptable and what isn’t? A fuckwit like ztev or muttonturd?
      
      Is something like this to be banned:
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
      
      Or is this because it shows what a true leader looks like:
      
      http://webtv.un.org/watch/john-key-new-zealand-on-colombia-and-syria-security-council-media-stakeout-21-september-2016/5135477167001?lan=english
      
      I fear that all these dopey lefties think that this censorship and scrutiny will only be levelled at those that disagree with them.
      
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      March 21, 2019 3:15pm
rightoverlabour

The purges have begun. Stalin would have been proud….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111441618/real-estate-agents-cut-from-company-over-social-media-posts-on-race

No trial, no right to defend one’s self, just gone.

I don’t know what he said, I don’t care, some people say things in the heat of the moment and then later regret them. Looks like we should all be afraid, very afraid. Muttonbird said all South African’s are racist. So that’s it then, off to the Gulag, you are South African….
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March 21, 2019 12:33pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You are more than mistaken to compare a company’s action to protect its commercial image with Stalin’s purges – you sully the memory of actual victims of a totalitarian dictatorship by attempting to pretend a couple of gormless racists are martyrs for the cause of free speech.
  
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  March 21, 2019 1:46pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “gormless racists”.
    
    So you know what they said do you?
    
    Well, do you or are you just a typical “jump on the bandwagon” non thinking dropkick?
    
    Bit of a “backfire” for ardern the liar isn’t it?
    
    Dropping one to one interviews in favour of online applications, reducing 356 dedicated firearms staff and replacing them with 83, the bulk in Kapiti.
    
    Hmmm, is that an egg on face moment?
    
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    March 21, 2019 3:00pm
- Jules99
  
  There’s more free speech in Russia at the moment.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:41pm
redeye

Changing the subject somewhat;-

Anne Coulter nails CNN’s hypocrisy to the post for all to see;-
https://www.takimag.com/article/media-magic-how-a-democrat-pedophile-became-a-trump-scandal/
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March 21, 2019 12:55pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ends with a lockerup! Isn’t about time those dodgy Clintons were made to pay for their crimes?
  Speaking of the media though, isn’t it great that Devin Nunes has the brass to sue Twitter and those mean Twitter users? MAGA!
  
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  March 21, 2019 1:50pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    The true story is not Russia collusion but Ukrainian collusion- for Hillary Clinton.
    
    12 2
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    March 21, 2019 2:22pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Buttery males…
      
      0 13
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      March 21, 2019 2:25pm
    - Batman
      
      AoR – no, I think you’re mistaken. The Ukrainians were far too busy trying to fend off the Russians invading their fucking country to worry about trying to elect Hillary Clinton.
      
      I’m yet to see a single scrap of credible evidence of them doing so.
      
      Russian efforts to elect Trump however…… A different story.
      
      2 9
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      March 21, 2019 2:32pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You don’t know anything. You’re constantly wrong.
        All coming out now. I don’t have the space and time to outline it all.
        But the evidence is becoming very clear now. The release of Lisa Page and others evidence is showing it.
        
        Even the Ukrainian Head of Prosecutor is making statements on the Collusion for Hillary.
        Btw, ever heard of Crowdstrike? That’s the Ukrainian firm the DNC hired to investigate the leak of their Server and did the report Clinton’s stooges in the FBI and DOJ relied on to point the finger at Russia.
        You do realise the FBI has never been able to inspect the DNCs Server eh.
        Mueller is about to indict a Democrat with Ukrainian connections.
        After Muellers report is out I reckon we’re going to see a flood of other indictments.
        Those of us who’ve been paying attention know whose going to get it…
        Lastly, the Ukrainians wanted Hillary because she would go full out in arming them and escalate the conflict.
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:40pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No, there is no way that any investigation of Trump should precede full and unbiased investigations of Whitewater, Vince Foster’s death, Benghazi, Uranium One, Comet Pizza, and the decline is sightings of the Loch Ness Monster.
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:54pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        More detail here
        https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges
        
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        March 21, 2019 3:07pm
      - Batman
        
        Thanks AoR, that was an interesting read. You’ll agree that the option piece you link does mention that the Ukraine is riddled with corruption etc.
        
        We’re clearly not going to agree. I will just say that I am not constantly wrong. I may say things you constantly disagree with, but that doesn’t make me wrong. There’s a long way to go in sorting out what the Trump campaign, and possibly Trump, got up to in order to leverage themselves with the Russians.
        
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        March 21, 2019 3:23pm
Prince

The Herald tried to have a go at Chris Bishop for opposing recent changes to Gun Laws.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214735

The hit job has, um, backfired.
Turns out those changes, as Bishop foresaw, in fact weakened the NZ Police ability to monitor those applying for firearms. In fact the changes were introduced to cut costs.
Good to see some media are still able to question this CoL’s actions and motives.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111438784/changes-to-gun-law-overseen-by-jacinda-ardern-described-as-crazy
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March 21, 2019 1:00pm
- Johnboy
  
  Yes I read that shit in the Herald this morning. They have obviously gone through there records looking for what they hope is dirt on Chris as he is one of Nationals most effective MP’s having defeated the stranglehold they have had on Hutt South for many years. Much against the trend in Welly last election I might add here! 🙂
  I suspect Chris Bishop is destined for much greater things in politics and so do the slimy lefties. That’s why they tend to target (excuse the pun) him!. 🙂 🙂
  
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  March 21, 2019 1:23pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Johnboy it is like Stuff how can they be taken seriously on Hate Crime when they are the first to put out cartoons on hate there for Trump.
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111453641/cartoon-jacinda-of-new-zealand-vs-trump
    
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    March 21, 2019 1:44pm
    - Johnboy
      
      Great stuff Happy! 🙂 Obviously Sorenson is a disgruntled Islamic brown skinned person going by his name! 🙂
      Either that or he is a sad arsed lefty shill! 🙂
      From his link importuning for donations may or may not give a hint as to his motivation! 🙂
      ps: His drawings were very third rate. I wouldn’t send him a plugged nickel! 🙂
      
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      March 21, 2019 2:20pm
    - Batman
      
      Happychappy it is an entirely factually accurate cartoon.
      
      He’s done all those things because he’s a neanderthal with the emotional intelligence of a bird bath.
      
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      March 21, 2019 2:25pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Well apart from;
        1. Not a ‘Muslim Ban’- that’s been thoroughly discredited. North Korea and Venezuela aren’t Muslim countries and several Muslim countries aren’t on the ban list.
        2. The ‘cages’ were put in by Obama in 2014. They are there temporarily to separate the children and protect from the adults they came with while they are processed and their parents identity confirmed.
        3. Groping is a real stretch for some of his admittedly sleazy behaviour.
        But you and her stay ignorant. That’s ok.
        
        Hey, how is that Russia Collusion thing going on?
        #TDS
        LOL
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:33pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Happychappy is correct, Batman – it’s downright mean to make fun of Trump’s appearance, racism or ignorance.
        Perhaps when Trump’s buddy Nunes gets through with suing @DevinNunesMom et al, there could be some defamation actions against NZ cartoonists.
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:40pm
      - Komata
        
        Batman@1425
        
        Re: ‘He’s done all those things because he’s a neanderthal with the emotional intelligence of a bird bath’.
        
        And the basis for your assertions would be?
        
        Thank you.
        
        13 1
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        March 21, 2019 2:44pm
      - Tall Man
        
        And yet he has kept more election promises to his people than ardern the liar and “what’s in it for wynston”.
        
        Still, I suppose his excesses outweigh his successes as far as you are concerned but let’s see what the American voters think in 2020 as it is still a democracy with open discussion and opinion allowed unlike here currently.
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:45pm
      - Batman
        
        AoR: the investigations into the many crimes of the Trump campaign and various associates seems to be going well.
        
        100+ indictments and multiple people who were personal confidants of Trump are going to jail.
        
        History will speak for itself my friend ?
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Batman, you forgot to ‘LOL’ back at AoR.
        
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        March 21, 2019 2:55pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Batty
        And all those charges have nothing to do with Trump
        How many FBI and DOJ staff sacked now?
        12?
        
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        March 21, 2019 3:06pm
    - Tall Man
      
      They are cranky because he’s a doer not a deferrer like ardern the liar.
      
      I’ll bet ardern the liar is a bit cranky that her changes to the Arms Act have blown up in her face being labelled by all and sundry as idiotic. Even stuff had the temerity to point it out. Another ‘captain’s call” gone wrong.
      
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      March 21, 2019 2:53pm
oob

I’m posting this early because I only have it from a single reliable source, others may be better placed to acquire corroboration. This person tells me:

[DPF: Deleted by DPF. Don’t spread conspiracy theories]
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March 21, 2019 1:22pm
- oob
  
  Oh-kay, allow me to rephrase:
  
  I wonder if Brenton Tarrant has ever come to the attention of the mental health services in Dunedin.
  
  10 1
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  March 21, 2019 2:33pm
  - Johnboy
    
    Anyone who chooses to live in a shithole like Dunedin should automatically come to their attention. 🙂
    
    14 3
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    March 21, 2019 3:08pm
    - Tall Man
      
      And another “tidal wave” coming your way…..
      
      6 0
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      March 21, 2019 3:23pm
      - sooty
        
        The woke left are certainly not going to tell you that.
        
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        March 21, 2019 4:31pm
- dave_c_
  
  Take heart oob – The majority of people who attempt to classify opinion as ‘consiracy theory’, are ignorant to the facts that many many so called ‘conspiracy theories’ turn out to be true.
  Alas, I believe that those trying to close down opinion and discussion have something to hide, and would rather that the public do not become aware of the realities we now live in.
  
  Do the research – it’ll surprise you
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:12pm
MickMac

Rightsoverlabour
11.39

I think this needs reading by every Kiwi right now, every school and Uni and especially the media (incl DPF and others like him) and Politicians Local or National.
In fact everyone.

It is Rowan Atkinson’s speech to the House of Lords, when the British Govt tried to foster a Hate speech law on the UK.

https://www.secularism.org.uk/32657.html
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March 21, 2019 1:42pm
- Tall Man
  
  And another articles on the page.
  
  https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2019/03/more-schools-suspend-diversity-teaching-under-muslim-pressure
  
  13 0
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  March 21, 2019 2:28pm
wreck1080

Why does tauranga keep getting smashed by the government when it comes to roading?

Not only do we have more toll roads than the rest of the country combined, the government is now refusing to fund urgent roading projects.

It seems tauranga taxpayers are destined to pay for the roading needs of other places.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12212711
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March 21, 2019 2:02pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Simon?
  
  12 0
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  March 21, 2019 2:16pm
- mandk
  
  It’s all part of the secret coalition agreement.
  
  Winston Peters hasn’t forgiven Tauranga for electing Simon Bridges instead of him in 2008.
  
  20 1
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  March 21, 2019 2:23pm
  - ABS
    
    It’s not like Winston Peters to hold a grudge! I bet he barely remembers Bill English seconding the motion to throw him out of the National Party.
    
    11 0
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    March 21, 2019 4:24pm
- Johnboy
  
  Because when the sea level rises by ten metres sometime next year you Taurangaites will bleat for compensation wreck old chap! 🙂
  Just remember this government has much higher priorities than your roading stuff. They have to find millions to buyback semiautos! They have to build a million houses on inundation free land! They have to fund fifty billion tree plantings! They have to contribute zillions to the UN feelgood fund on climate change while sorting out a sudden drop in income due to no more oil and gas and no more dairy! Just you hope that you can sell your Tauranga house at a big enough profit to contribute to the Cullen Grab Tax while you can old chap! 🙂
  
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  March 21, 2019 2:31pm
- Batman
  
  You’re not Auckland and you don’t vote left.
  
  Phil and Jacinda don’t care for your provlems, and neither do their land transport policies which are geared towards one main metro centre
  
  17 1
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  March 21, 2019 2:34pm
  - Tall Man
    
    With few bucks thrown in for genter’s sperm donor….$360,000 so far.
    
    8 2
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    March 21, 2019 2:54pm
    - Johnboy
      
      I’d have given her one for much less than that old chap! 🙂
      
      4 0
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      March 21, 2019 4:23pm
      - stigie
        
        And you would been made to walk to get too JB..?
        
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        March 21, 2019 5:59pm
Poppa

The equinox is today folks so we are now officially in Autumn.

Looks like the weather will start turning next week as well to remind us winter is not far away. I hate winter but we are in need of some rain that is for sure
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March 21, 2019 2:33pm
All_on_Red

WOW
This probably deserves a separate post by DPF to highlight Arderns culpability and hypocrisy
‘Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern oversaw recent changes which meant people didn’t need to visit their local police station to apply for permits for military style guns.

But her office says that people still need to be vetted in person when applying for gun licences.

Critics of the changes – designed to allow for online applications – say the changes are “crazy” because they take away an important face-to-face contact between police and people buying military style semi-automatics [MSSAs].

“It’s been done for all the wrong reasons – this is exactly an example of the type of problem that’s caused this event [in Christchurch],” says firearms lawyer Nicholas Taylor.’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111438784/changes-to-gun-law-overseen-by-jacinda-ardern-described-as-crazy

I seriously doubt Arderns competence at drafting effective Legislation on anything.
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March 21, 2019 2:52pm
- Tall Man
  
  FFS, it was taking far too long to sort out and she had “Woman’s Day” waiting for the photo shoot and she just couldn’t do anymore without mowing the lawn.
  
  16 1
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  March 21, 2019 3:21pm
- Wired-one
  
  And what do you know, she has come out with a gun law announcement, the same day that story breaks…
  
  13 1
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  March 21, 2019 3:22pm
- Poppa
  
  So is that why she has been on a guilt trip?
  
  It is funny how things have a habit of catching with you when you least expect
  
  16 1
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  March 21, 2019 3:40pm
- cmm
  
  Don’t worry she’s scoring big with the feelz.
  
  I have had two emails recently from people in UK and South Africa about how awesome our PM is.
  
  She really is doing well on the international front where people don’t seem to be too worried about boring day-to-day stuff like understanding what GDP is.
  
  In the Internet age it is image that counts.
  
  I have no doubt a poll taken now would see Labour pulling well over 50%.
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:41pm
  - Wired-one
    
    Sad isn’t it.
    
    13 0
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    March 21, 2019 4:10pm
    - sooty
      
      HA, HAAAA, HAAA! Give yourself a thick ear JacinDUH! Brilliant! Karma!
      
      3 0
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      March 21, 2019 4:26pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My pinko brother in Oz tells me the same thing. Greatest PM the World has ever had. I emailed him back and asked him to send me a bucket
    
    6 2
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    March 21, 2019 5:35pm
- dave_c_
  
  All-on-Red – I find it totally hypocritical that a government (like ours) can rail on about the nasties of gun ownership, and come down on the general public because they feel like they have to do something (anything) to be seen as ‘great leaders’ in a crisis etc. . .
  However, the hypocracy is that these leaders also congregate, support and align with other nations who kill thousands of innocent citizens across many fronts, and then have the gall to propose draconian restriction on their own citizens, and there is absolute silence.
  Be alarmed, this is but the beginning of a larger agenda to limit peoples freedoms.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:24pm
Michael

Iconic photo.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/111447768/iconic-tayla-harris-image-to-be-front-and-centre-of-aflw-marketing-campaign
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March 21, 2019 3:24pm
trout

Ardern has announced that the Govt. will act to ban army style assault rifles. This is the easy choice (unlikely to raise any objection) but what of other semi autos?
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March 21, 2019 3:29pm
- Dave Mann
  
  Correction: Ardern has announced that, because nobody knows who actually owns this type of weapon (as opposed to who has a license for one), or where they are located, only the gangs, serious criminals, her drug dealer mates and psychopaths will own them and on-sell them illegally.
  
  This includes, of course, the lovely gangs which have taken it upon themselves to ‘defend’ the mosques. Fucking charmers.
  
  Unbelievable.
  
  p.s. I don’t own a MSSA firearm and I’m not part of any gun lobby. I simply recognise this bullshit for what it is… a mindless piece of kneejerk virtue signalling.
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:00pm
slightlyrighty

Are kiwibloggers aware that Whitcoulls have removed Jordan Peterson’s books from sale as a result of the Christchurch Mosque attacks.

A ridiculous over reaction.
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March 21, 2019 3:32pm
- Bell-47
  
  Well, off to Amazon we go then. If that’s the game they want to play. Stupidity from a retailer peddling what is a dying format.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:20pm
  - artemisia
    
    Check Book Depository as well, usually cheaper as postage is free.
    
    9 0
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    March 21, 2019 4:53pm
- John Warren
  
  The Book Depository will sell them to you much cheaper than Whitcoulls anyway. Bugger them. If they are going to be the arbitors of what we can and can’t read, then they can go to hell, and we can go elsewhere.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:50pm
Bill felt

Jordan Peterson’s Book 12 Rules has been banned at Whitcoulls.

Unbelievable!
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March 21, 2019 3:32pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Have they withdrawn all the similarly pathetic offerings by other self-help gurus?
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:41pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    If they are to be consistent, they should withdraw the Bible as well.
    
    17 0
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    March 21, 2019 4:15pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      True that. However, there might be continued customer demand for the Bible. Whitcoulls is a business that makes commercial decisions (mainly bad ones, in my view – like turning itself into a gift shop instad of a bookshop), so it’s ludicrous to talk about terms like bans or censorship.
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:15pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Your bitter envy is showing again.
    
    Send a couple of your witty and ascerbic posts to arden the liar and you may get a couple of signed selfies for your wank wall.
    
    11 1
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    March 21, 2019 4:17pm
- artemisia
  
  Dr Peterson has a huge online following. This news about it being banned will be halfway around the world before Whitcoulls gets its shoes on. And the Streisand Effect will sell a lot more books.
  
  31 1
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  March 21, 2019 3:44pm
  - Jules99
    
    Yep, good price at the Book Depository right now: https://www.bookdepository.com/12-Rules-for-Life-Jordan-B-Peterson/9780241351642?ref=grid-view&qid=1553139576032&sr=1-1
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:42pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Cambridge University has just rescinded its offer of a visiting professorship to Peterson.
  https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation
  
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  March 21, 2019 5:03pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I guess that university feels that it is not obliged to provide him with a platform for his whacky views. Sad!
    
    3 18
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    March 21, 2019 5:17pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yeah, much better that Cambridge Uni trains up psychobabble rip-off entrepreneurs
      https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/mar/24/cambridge-analytica-academics-work-upset-university-colleagues
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:58pm
    - John Warren
      
      Oh, the irony of your comment!
      
      0 0
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      March 21, 2019 8:15pm
David Garrett

So, a ban on military style MSSA’s…but not on semi-automatic shotguns and .22’s. I don’t think many people will have too much trouble with that.

Political lobbyist Simon Lusk opined this morning that most hunters have no truck with “hunters” who hunt with an MSSA…and I agree. Although my hunting days are behind me, I have never known any serious hunter to want to use such a weapon, although I have met the odd Rambo who seems to get a charge out of a collection of them.

The exemption for shotguns and .22’s is very sensible, and caters for duck shooters and those, including farmers, who use a semi-auto .22 for vermin control. On the whole a pretty reasoned response.IMHO.
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March 21, 2019 3:39pm
- Tall Man
  
  I regularly hunted with a chap who used a 30.06 semi.
  
  It was a while ago, had a 4 shot mag and he used it on the offchance that the first shot didn’t kill.
  
  Never saw him fire a second shot and that rifle will not be banned after this change. That rifle can also be easily modified into a MSSA replica.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:27pm
  - Johnboy
    
    I hunted with that same joker and his 30.06 auto TM. We went to kill feral sheep in the Haurangi’s down the Turanganui river from Sutherland’s hut. I heard him jacking a round into it behind me and when I looked around he had the thing pointing at my back. Dave I said next time I ever see you pointing that at my back while loading it I will break it round the next tree and stuff the broken bits up your arse. I am of course renowned for my diplomacy! 🙂 When we got to the sheep he managed to wound about four leaving it up to us to finish the poor buggers off while he fucked about with his jammed semi auto 30.06. Afterwards he said to me….Thanks for that. I’ve never killed anything bigger than a rabbit till now needless to say we never invited him out again! 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 5:49pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yep. Used to hunt fallow with an old family friend out in South Kaipara and he used one (Browning BAR)
    
    We were hunting for meat only and I must admit it had some advantages. He could bag 2-3 at a go which saved a lot of extra walking.
    
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    March 21, 2019 6:17pm
BananaLlama

Why is our government broadcasting a call to prayer over state owned television and radio?. I was willing to accept my Prime Minister wearing a headscarf but this has gone to far.
We are suppose to live in a secular society and i think this is a really bad precedent.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/christchurch-terror-attack-what-is-the-muslim-call-to-prayer.html
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March 21, 2019 3:39pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If you are an atheist like me, it will mean nothing in a religious/spiritual sense.
  
  But I’m more than happy that our State Broadcasters use some means to acknowledge a national response to the massacre.
  
  It will mean something to folks who believe in prayer and a deity… and that is a helluva lot of people.
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:57pm
- David Garrett
  
  Banana: Words fail me…Well, they don’t in my head, but since I have been afforded the honour of not being moderated, they do on here.
  
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  March 21, 2019 3:57pm
- ABS
  
  Do what I do. I have avoided all media and news since Saturday and banned anyone in my house from talking about the massacre on Sunday. We all needed a break from it.
  My daughter came home from school on Tuesday and said “I have had enough, there’s nowhere you can go they’re not talking about it, how are we supposed to not feel worried, and start feeling better when there’s wall to wall coverage everywhere you go?” She’s 14.
  Luckily she came down with a cold Tuesday night and has had 2 days off to “recover”.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:03pm
  - Jules99
    
    Bless – give her a hug from me.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:32pm
  - John Warren
    
    Same here.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:51pm
- MGT
  
  Did you also object to “Hymns on Sunday morning “?
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:09pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    Yes. What next? i’m being racist towards religion? Fool.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:20pm
  - David Garrett
    
    MGT: Unless you are very stupid, I’m sure you know the difference.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:23pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I think your first comment didn’t need the “unless”.
      
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      March 21, 2019 4:29pm
    - MGT
      
      My comment was in response to the mention of a “secular society”.
      
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      March 21, 2019 7:11pm
- simpleton1
  
  Is NZ being called by the adhan? (no pun intended)
  
  God is the greatest (Allahu akbar); intoned four times.
  
  I testify that there is no God but Allah (Ashhadu anna la ila ill Allah); intoned twice.
  
  I testify that Mohammed is God’s Prophet (Ashhadu anna Muhammadan rasul Allah); intoned twice.
  
  Come to prayer (Hayya alas salah); intoned twice.
  
  Come to security/salvation (Hayya alal falah); intoned twice.
  
  God is the greatest (Allahu akbar); intoned twice.
  
  There is no God but Allah (La ilah ill Allah); intoned once.
  
  https://www.approachguides.com/blog/guide-to-the-islamic-call-to-prayer-adhan/
  
  The hobbits rejected the call of the rings. 🙂
  
  Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
  Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
  Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
  One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
  In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
  One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
  One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
  In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:18pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I understand they intend to have a Muslim call to prayer in Parliament also.
  Until recently Parliament had a Christian prayer. To reject that and change to another god is deeply offensive. Those not affected may just think it is political expediency: our forefathers did not. God has not changed and will not be mocked. As a nation this is a step into the wilderness.
  
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  March 21, 2019 7:59pm
ABS

It’s good watching the trolls self immolating.
Sam Green, BlackWithAVengeeance and Muttonturd have all slithered off to the stranded pretending they have scored some huge moral victory over Kiwiblog and far alt right racist Nazis, while ztev is gone for a year.
I am starting to like the over the top moderation.
Hopefully DPF sees the first 3 peoples comments over there about him and adds another 6 months length to the bans
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March 21, 2019 3:52pm
- Bell-47
  
  Saw that, Ztrev couldn’t help himself.
  
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  March 21, 2019 4:09pm
  - Johnboy
    
    I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the various Milkeys will be next to go. 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:25pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m sticking with you, Johnboy. Wainui vs HOB coming soon.
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:40pm
      - Johnboy
        
        You do seem to be a very slow learner Milkey. Check out Wainui Mountain on your Google! 🙂
        
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        March 21, 2019 6:37pm
      - Johnboy
        
        I dont know how many times I have told you all I am named after Johnboy Walton from Waltons Mountain and I am Johnboy from Wainui Mountain!
        You have all assumed something else and I just larf at you all! 🙂
        Especially really stupid fuckwits like you Milkey. 🙂
        
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        March 21, 2019 6:54pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah, some of those Mikes can get real nasty – on purpose just to try and trigger you. Childish really
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:43pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I missed it and can’t find it.
    
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    March 21, 2019 4:58pm
    - Johnboy
      
      That’s cause you’re a woman Rach. 🙂
      
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      March 21, 2019 5:15pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        More an accusation that I would cast at men Johnboy. If you know what I mean!!! ;).
        
        So tempted not to reply to Rach!!! but the subject matter was too tempting.
        
        Just like a man not to actually provide an answer, unless you are Jacinda that is.
        
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        March 21, 2019 5:58pm
      - Johnboy
        
        Oh you strike me as an angry person that needs strict handling Rach! 🙂
        
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        March 21, 2019 6:57pm
- srylands
  
  What a nasty piece of work.
  
  http://www.metrolyrics.com/ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead-lyrics-wizard-of-oz.html
  
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  March 21, 2019 7:11pm
ABS

Interesting stats about the website traffic at 4Chan from New Zealanders.
Since the ban on IP’s via the DNS function, website traffic from New Zealand has doubled there over the last 5 days.
Own goal from the NZ Government there.
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March 21, 2019 3:55pm
ABS

Moderation here seems to be working a lot better. Thanks to all that are helping DPF. I am one of those who will never get on a pre approved list for comments (I am not sure why), but a couple of minutes lag is a lot better than waiting an hour or longer while David was doing it by himself.
TY guys. Give yourselves a high 5.
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March 21, 2019 4:21pm
waripori

Banning MSSAs seems like low hanging fruit and wont change much of anything.

What would make a difference is a register of fire arms and I don’t understand why we don’t have one. At least the police could see who was amassing an arsenal and would have a better idea how many guns there are in the country and where they are.

I would cost money to implement but once in place would have to help. The Americans with all their lax gun laws and second amendment still require guns to be registered. How come we don’t?
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March 21, 2019 4:40pm
- David Garrett
  
  Wari: I agree…in this computer age surely it would be piece of piss to have a register which links firearms by serial number to licence holder X?
  
  I vaguely recall John Banks as police minister being opposed to a register, but I’m buggered if I can recall why.
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:29pm
  - marcw
    
    Police didn’t want the extra work, and were worried about every Tom, Dick and Brandon transporting all their weaponry to the armoury. They felt the Arms officer would be at risk. Plus, they wanted to save money and close many of these shops down.
    
    National databases were much more expensive to set up then too – technology has changed now, but they will still stuff it up. How’s that Auckland CC multi-billion setup going, if at all?
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:30pm
  - Tall Man
    
    1.5 million unregistered firearms spread amongst 250,000 registered users.
    
    Go for it David.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:07pm
- Gravelroad
  
  There was such a system in years gone by – 1950’s, 60’s. The process was along the lines of:
  First step was to go to gun shop and select a firearm.
  Before you could purchase and take it away you had to go to police station and get a permit to procure it.
  Having got your permit you went back to the shop, showed the permit, purchased the firearm and then took it directly to the Police station.
  The Police Officer would keep the firearm for a week to be inspected for safety and to make a few enquiries as to your suitability to own.
  Once the week was up, you could come and collect your firearm and the police would give you a certificate of ownership with all the serial numbers noted and these numbers would be recorded and kept ..by the police.
  The serial numbers, and purchaser name were recorded together.
  This process was very time consuming and the police found it too hard to keep up with the book work.
  The focus then went on to registering the people not the firearm. “Lifetime” licences were purchased by individuals. These were subsequently altered to 10 year licences. A license holder could have several firearms.
  This process has been related to me by an experienced, legal firearms user who went through it as a young man.
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:40pm
- V
  
  Because people making it a priority to “amass an arsenal” are hardly likely to go file paperwork with every purchase.
  NZ has enough trouble getting people to register and WOF their cars, and those things are driven around in broad daylight.
  Practical reality is bureaucracy can only do so much.
  
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  March 22, 2019 12:25am
Rachael Membery

Amongst all of the gatherings Canterbury also has this to contend with. they must wonder what they have done.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/111461933/canterbury-health-authorities-ask-sick-unvaccinated-not-to-attend-large-gatherings
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March 21, 2019 4:56pm
Doug

I can imagine the Gangs buying up large, and will have more firepower than the armed forces could get very scary.
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March 21, 2019 5:04pm
- Johnboy
  
  Some of us already have that firepower Doug and we ain’t in some jigaboo gang shit situation mate. 🙂
  
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  March 21, 2019 5:34pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Ssssshhhh
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:04pm
- Inandout
  
  Doug, some chap on talk back the other night said Russian trawlers dropped off all kinds of firearms. With the best will in the world, stopping illegal firearms will be bloody difficult.
  
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  March 21, 2019 5:35pm
  - Johnboy
    
    No sweat old chap. Our Progressive new government folk will just ban them pesky russky trawlers mate! 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 5:53pm
  - Swifty
    
    Yep.
    
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    March 21, 2019 6:25pm
ObligatoryMarxist

So, as someone who is from (obviously) the Left, I thought it might be worth me saying something about ‘blame’ for the tragedy in Christchurch.

For me, it comes down to a difference between blame, and contributions. Ultimately, there are only two things that can be *directly blamed* for this to happen. One is the murderer himself, and that by far is the most important. The other is the lax security service that let him slip under the radar. The former will be sorted by a trial, and the latter by an inquiry into how the security services screwed up.

However, we can’t leave it at that. Blame is good for catharsis, but personally, I want to investigate and find out the contributing factors, some minor, some major, that led to this being possible and happening. This is where I think the line is being blurred. It is important to talk about hate speech and policies that normalized and built it up.

The Media, for example, have had enormous influence in our society, and have contributed – not blame, but contribution – to the rise of the ideology the murderer has. Pundits like Plunket and Slater have most directly affected our discourse, but so too has mainstream or even ‘left wing’ media with a overly dramatic and false focus on ‘balance’.

Politicians can’t be allowed to skip the blame. From Labour’s virulent anti-Chinese sentiment to NZ First’s open contempt for Muslims at times, I personally have called many times for them to clean up their act and kick out their racists. They haven’t really taken notice.

Even ordinary citizens, like Kiwibloggers here, have said things that are openly racist and Islamophobic.

It should be of little doubt that the murderer took inspiration from everywhere, from the media, from politicians, and yes, from Kiwiblog commentors, to twist and fuel his hate.

The question though, is what do we do about it. A lot of people (on both sides) confuse criticizing hateful speech with calling for it to be criminalized. Story short, I don’t trust the
Government to deal with it in any way that is helpful to democracy. I do think we as citizens and as part of a community, have a right and a duty to make hate speech unpopular and unlikely in our midst. We have to consider the consequences of our speech, and the rippling effects it has on the world around us. On the Left, I think we need to be wary of a bunch of things – antisemitism, pro-state censorship – a whole bunch of things we argue for in good faith can be twisted by racist or power-hungry individuals. The same is, I hope, true for the right. Good-hearted attempts to be fiscally sound drop so easily into seeing the poor as scum and lazy, or the attempt for freedom of speech to fall into defenses of bigotry and hatred.

The idea that we can all come together, no rules, and have a calm debate don’t work any more. After Christchurch, I want to talk to more right wing people, but when someone says something racist, I can’t stand by and let it be spoken. And I don’t think you people should too. Don’t make DPF moderate – when we see racist crap come up on here, and it does, we need to start calling it out ourselves – 20 people saying ‘nah bro that’s racist’ as a comment on someone’s post may seem a wee bit flat, but it’s better than digging into massive flame wars and making DPF turn off the comments again.
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March 21, 2019 5:42pm
- Ross12
  
  So you name Kiwiblog but The Standard gets a pass.
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:15pm
  - ObligatoryMarxist
    
    That is a fair point. I spoke about the left in a general rather than a specific sense because I didn’t want to get into specifics, but as you pointed out, this comes across as unfair.
    
    So my specific problems are thus: the Standard is cliquey, and allowes crypto antisemitism to thrive. It also allows for personal smears which DPF is actually very vigilant on in comparison.
    The Daily Blog is a cesspool of outright sexism and homophobia, with conspiracy theories given prevelence over any form of reasoned argument.
    I still maintain that Kiwiblog has a problem with Muslim Hatred, but laying out that argument I think ought to wait a bit.
    
    All of these contribute to a poisonous discourse. It’s probably worth noting as well that these are only a few pf the problems. I could write pages and pages on how sickeningly bad The Daily Blog is, but I do want to stress that I think the problem is wider than just KB. I just brought it up here because I think change has to come from inside all these communities. *You* have to decide that hatred and bigotry shouldn’t be part of your community, and if places like the Standard hypocritically refuse to change the way THEY do things, well then screw them.
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:20pm
    - V
      
      I wouldn’t want to be rude but it sounds like you have disappeared up your own arsehole.
      
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      March 22, 2019 12:22am
- David Garrett
  
  Marxist: I think you will find a post David is planning in the next wee while quite informative regarding this phenomenon of “Islamophobia”. At least that term is accurate, unlike the nonsensical “homophobia”. I am not and never have been frightened of gays, while also not feeling particularly good about the practises of many male homosexuals.
  
  If you don’t know what I refer to you need to get out more. Here’s a wee clue: When AIDS hit the news in the early 1980’s it was revealed that many sufferers in San Francisco had had 300 different sexual partners in a year. Yep, that’s almost one a day.
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:35pm
  - Tall Man
    
    David, I fear no one, no man, no movement and no religion.
    
    My long departed father had a saying which I have sort of lived by.
    
    “Your right to swing your arms ends where ny nose begins”.
    
    I defend my rights and on a good day I’ll defend yours if they are similar to mine but if you choose to try to force your beliefs onto me, be prepared for my arms to move into your space.
    
    Does that make sense or has Paddy’s taken hold 🙂
    
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    March 21, 2019 7:31pm
  - Inandout
    
    DG, those sweaty bath houses have a lot to answer for.
    
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    March 21, 2019 8:02pm
  - sam green
    
    A bit of a tangent. Bumsex? You need to get out more.
    
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    March 21, 2019 9:21pm
- The King
  
  The only person Brenton Tarrant took inspiration from was Marxists quite like yourself. Muh Hate Speech had nothing to do with it, the mangled corpse of Ebba Akerlund played a part (crickets) . The Marxist policies, the agenda that led to her killer getting in a truck and mowing her down. .. That is the answer to your question of “Contributing factors” which i know you will not accept because “Muh Marxism”
  
  Some something “White Soopremacist” “rayciist”
  
  There is no “ourselves” You are a Marxist, clearly using Marxist talking points. You don’t get to decide how people talk to you. Usually in no dimension ever would i even want, or could be bothered to hear a Marxists point of view on anything.
  
  However, if you will like to debate anything in Brentons Manifesto, to help you understand some “contributing factors” i can do this if you can refrain yourself from “that’s just racist” talking points.. (doubt) and i will refrain from pointing out how you are a “Diversity Supremacist” (probably not)
  
  Not saying all Marxists are wrong. These 2 quotes from Gramsci are spot on, but you will never be a Gramsci… Your generation = worst Marxists ever, simply terrible and non-inspirational.
  
  “I am a partisan. That is why I hate the ones that don’t take sides, I hate the indifferent.” – Gramsci
  
  “The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.” – Gramsci
  
  If you want to play Marxist games, you’re going to get Marxist prizes.
  
  Her name was Ebba Akerlund.
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:57pm
- tranquil
  
  @ObligatoryMarxist – Welcome!
  
  You mention “Islamophobia”. That is disappointing. That term is a nonsensical term used by those who know very little about Islam in an effort to shut down discussion.
  
  If being an “Islamophobe” means that –
  
  * I do not like the estimated 270 million people (and counting) killed in the name of Islam in the last 1400 years – vastly more than two World Wars –
  https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/
  
  * – and that I don’t like the over 500 verses in the Quran that are hateful towards non-Muslims –
  http://dttj.blogspot.com/2010/08/intolerance-toward-non-muslims-in-quran.html
  
  * – and the over 100 verses calling on Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims –
  https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
  
  – then I’m “guilty as charged”.
  
  Personally, I don’t think there is a whole lot to **like** about those things, but that’s just me.
  (There is also a whole lot *more* not to like about Islam but the above things will suffice for now. )
  
  What I *will* say is that it has often been the case that Muslims have been the victims of Islam too, as well as non-Muslims.
  
  We should not forget that the killer wanted more censorship, in an effort to increase resentment and frustration. We should instead go in the *opposite* direction – *openness* is *good*.
  
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  March 21, 2019 7:24pm
  - ObligatoryMarxist
    
    Hi Tranquil, thanks for replying.
    
    Its not so much that I think having those critiques of Islam are in of themselves Islamophobic, as a queer person I don’t like any religion particularly much. However, I think there is a context that we forget: namely that “our side” has been invading and controlling the Arab world for the better part of a century. That doesn’t mean critique is in of itself wrong, more that you have to ask what are you making that critique for? And why are you not making the same critique of Christian warlike passages? Do you, for example, critique the Crusaders name for quite literally referencing Holy War?
    
    The problem is that politicians have used the arguments you make to clamp down on freedoms, to prevent Muslims from praying or preaching, no matter the actual content of their message. It isn’t your fault that politicians have done this, its just something I reckon you should bear in mind, if that makes sense.
    
    Ultimately I don’t have any power. I’m not going to report or do anything to try and stop you making those critiques, but I am going to point out the context of them, and hopefully have some kind of dialogue about how much we should think about the consequences of our speech?
    
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    March 21, 2019 10:30pm
- Tall Man
  
  This is muttonbird’s recent post on the standard.
  
  “Yes. In this piece today he literally begs for his divisive right-wing voice not to be stifled. I think he can see the writing on the wall and doesn’t like one bit having the eyes of the world study his and his friends views in any detail.
  
  Like Farrar, Hosking is beginning to look very uncomfortable.”
  
  I guess you’d rate that as “balanced and non inflammatory”.
  
  And you wonder why we call lefties loonies.
  
  Anyone who champions having a voice “stifled” is not someone who supports freedom of speech, thought or association.
  
  Glad he’s your buddy not mine.
  
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  March 21, 2019 7:27pm
- Tall Man
  
  I am so glad we have you to define our moral compass.
  
  Wouldn’t it be awful if we had to work it out for ourselves.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:01pm
BananaLlama

I found David Garretts guest post where he discussed the death penalty and after reading the history behind the sentencing i agree that LWOP is a just replacement.

During the first 60 years of 20th century, before effective abolition in 1961, the application of the death penalty was anything but consistent – which was also the case in England during the same period. In short, whether the sentence was carried out or commuted depended on your sex – only one woman, baby farmer Minnie Dean, was ever hanged – your place in society, and most importantly the government of the day……
…… After the National Party returned to power in 1949 the death penalty was restored, but its actual application remained capricious, and largely dependent on who the Attorney General of the day was.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/10/guest_post_life_imprisonment_in_new_zealand_vs_australia_and_the_uk.html
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March 21, 2019 5:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  I personally believe it should have been retained so that it could be implemented if deemed applicable by the judiciary after referral.
  
  I find the US system archaic and stupid whereby a convicted person can wait 30 years or more for the sentence to be carried out.
  
  McCos can confirm but in Thailand the sentence can often be carried out within the week, although the last executions that I was able to confirm were over ten years ago.
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

2 minutes silence tomorrow?
Sorry, the fallen only get 1 minute on ANZAC Day.
You may get 15 seconds from me – as I watch it on the Labour Coalition TV1 channel.
Talk about promoting yourself Taxinda
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March 21, 2019 6:35pm
- David Garrett
  
  Steve O: Well said Sir…Every ANZAC day I find myself in tears thinking about all those lost young men in two world wars..1800 (out of 6000) in Bomber Command alone…
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    David, I go to the Glenfield Service. Small as it is, this is my area. Lovely thing, I take my grandkids.
    I do object to those who come in and speak about themselves, and make it known to that person. Phil Goff was disgusting, as was Len Brown. But it is always a good day rain or shine, I go
    
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    March 21, 2019 6:46pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Politicians?
      
      Maybe… Venal politicians.
      
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      March 21, 2019 8:58pm
- Tall Man
  
  Do yourself and I a favour, do not watch it.
  
  I can honestly say that TV1, TV2 and TV3 have not been watched in this house since we moved in and probably not regularly for almost ten years…apart from the slow responding Sky remote giving me channel 1 when any fool knows I was heading for the “Food Channel” 🙂
  
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  March 21, 2019 6:43pm
- DigNap15
  
  They will get – 10 minutes from me.
  What time is it, so that I can turn all my media off
  
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  March 22, 2019 6:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Strange. Something funny just happened. I have Malwarebytes Premium(paid sub) along with something else (NIS paid for) Every time I comment here Malwarebytes checks the page
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March 21, 2019 6:40pm
tranquil

Hi all –

When I think of the events last Friday, I remember a similar awful event – the Omagh bombing in Northern Ireland.
That shocking event appalled people on both sides of “the Troubles”, spurred on the peace process and eventually resulted in the Good Friday peace agreement.

It would be good if something similarly good came out of the events here.

I have an idea for discussion that is probably “way out there” but it’s meant to be *constructive* so I hope you’ll hear me out.

My idea is to try to take the heat out of things by using the analogy of a *house*.

Islam is the “house”, and those who believe it are the “occupants”.

My aim here is (in the conversation) to **completely separate** the two things – “house” and “occupants”.

“House bad, occupants good.”
( In real life, it’s more complex but I digress… ).

This allows people to talk about the bad stuff – the “house” – while the “occupants” are **safely left aside** from the conversation.

( Taking the analogy further, the “house” *has* damaged its “occupants” as well as those outside of it. )

It’s the “house” – the ideology and its history – that people have concerns about.
Banishing the “house” to the history books would mean that the “house” would be “empty” and its former “occupants” much safer than they are now. That sounds like a constructive and pretty good thing, IMO.

The gift that I’d like to give the Muslim community is the gift of freedom – helping the “occupants” leave the “house” and find another “house”.

Using this analogy, I would say to the Muslim community “let’s get together and have a close look at the “house” and its “builder” (Mohammed).
Did you realise that the “house” was built on a shaky foundation – a lie?”

Then I’d show them the Quran verse about the sun “setting in a muddy pool” (which it doesn’t, of course, and there is a hadith saying exactly the same thing.
There are other errors and discrepancies in the Quran but that one will do for now.
There is also a lot of nasty stuff, but the lie shown above will suffice for now. )

The second part – looking at the “builder” (Mohammed). I’d say “did you know that he was not a nice man to those who weren’t Muslims?”, and show proof of that.

Finally, you get to this – “given that the house is on a shaky foundation and was built by such a bad man, wouldn’t it be a good idea to leave the “house” and find a better one? A better “house” with a better “builder”? The original “house” and “builder” could then be left in the history books where they belong.”

Ok, it’s true that they could tell me to “get lost” but anyway…….. it’s not that easy to come up with constructive stuff after something like this.
This is meant to be an effort at something constructive. Your thoughts?
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March 21, 2019 7:03pm
- Tall Man
  
  Stop smoking that shit and watching AOC videos.
  
  Your brain is addled.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:42pm
- simpleton1
  
  Call me :-
  Atheism, Protestant, Roman Catholic, Buddhist, Jainism, Yazidi, Judaism, Quaker, Zoroastrian, Vegan, Jedi, Vulcan-ism, Rastafarianism, Hinduism, Taoism,
  any thing but “Sue” 🙂
  
  There is a question “A wind in the House of Islam”, (google it) but the winds that blow must remain “true” in seeking “love” and to work with “wisdom”.
  How effective it really is beyond the claims?
  
  All of the above and more would be accepting people who would want to change from an islamic house.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:40pm
Southern Raider

I’ve lost all respect for Bridges absolutely all of it

He’s just gone limp fruit loop on us and gifted Labour the next election

Who would vote for fucken National now?
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March 21, 2019 7:28pm
- Tall Man
  
  I will and hopefully given choice between ardern the liar and Simon Bridges you will as well…unless you were always an ardern sycophant.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:40pm
- Wired-one
  
  The media have gifted Ardern the next election, not Bridges. If you had watched any parliament TV in the last year, you would have watched Bridges consistently getting the better of Ardern. The same goes for many National MPs vs their counterparts. Ardern gets an easy ride from the media, you only have to look at the wall to wall coverage of everything she has done in the last week, to realize that the sycophantic MSM, who originally proclaimed “Jacindamania”, will not be changing their views anytime soon.
  
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  March 22, 2019 1:30am
big bruv

Please New Zealand, can we stop the vitrue signalling. I’m so fucking over it.
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March 21, 2019 7:29pm
- sam green
  
  Because you don’t give a fuck is not anyone else’s problem.
  
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  March 22, 2019 12:02am
Maggy Wassilieff

Racism/anti-Xstianty?? or anti-R.C? on display at Gisborne this morning

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/gisborne-catholic-church-st-mary-s-star-of-the-sea-vandalised-with-race-based-graffiti.html
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March 21, 2019 7:37pm
- BananaLlama
  
  There was a Far Left terror attack in Italy also. A man tried to set fire to a bus full of children in protest over closed borders.
  
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/italy-driver-of-bus-full-of-children-sets-it-on-fire/2019/03/20/b702e850-4b0e-11e9-8cfc-2c5d0999c21e_story.html?utm_term=.1c03509f5215
  
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  March 21, 2019 8:15pm
- MrTips
  
  I think you’ve noticed these last few days Maggie, some of the tangata whenua have found a new religion.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:16pm
- sam green
  
  And that’s vile too.
  
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  March 21, 2019 9:33pm
- The King
  
  Ah the tolerant left.
  
  A reminder about “Tolerance”..
  
  You don’t “Tolerate” Love
  You don’t “Tolerate” Health
  You don’t “Tolerate” Happiness
  
  The only thing you ever “Tolerate” is pain and suffering.
  
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  March 21, 2019 11:36pm
Southern Raider

1.5 hours in moderation so far and counting
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March 21, 2019 8:52pm
Tall Man

I expect there will be …no cops on this case….
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March 21, 2019 8:57pm
B Phillips

Hey KBer’s

Well you’ve chatted to me under a couple of different handles, this one was a bit of fun at the time but one I wouldn’t use now so it’s been converted.

I’m happy to now post under my real name now, time I tidied up my act anyway.

Nice to meet you all

B
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March 21, 2019 8:58pm
- Tall Man
  
  Wait until muttonturd come hunting…he’s after the “alt right”.
  
  Unfortunately he’s as thick as a plank and isn’t quite sure what that is…
  
  Whitcoulls “know” that Jordon Peterson” is not to be be displayed so he must nne “alt right…
  
  Ain’t it great that we have such a liberal society that encourages “diversity” especially if you’re from the side that they approve…you know, the left, like ardern the liar.
  
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  March 21, 2019 10:38pm
- David Garrett
  
  B Philips: Welcome Sir/Madam to the best political blog in the country…by a country mile.
  
  And well done for “coming out”! You will feel so much better.
  
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  March 22, 2019 10:12am
emmess

36 Minutes?
Seriously https://www.google.co.nz/maps/dir/Christchurch+Central+Police+Station,+40+Lichfield+St,+Christchurch+Central,+Christchurch+8011/Masjid+Al+Noor+%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AC%D8%AF,+101+Deans+Ave,+Riccarton,+Christchurch+8011%E2%80%AD/@-43.532659,172.618027,16z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x6d318a3dd4fa86d5:0x3b6d3b992cc0bd92!2m2!1d172.6350636!2d-43.5345672!1m5!1m1!1s0x6d318a5df2da8c93:0xd717b3829ef468ba!2m2!1d172.6117438!2d-43.5329408!3e0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBnjHfyejg0
Is that why the government and police are overreacting to hide their embarrassment?
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March 21, 2019 11:48pm
- emmess
  
  Sorry, the 36 minutes response time is incorrect, it was 6 minutes.
  
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  March 22, 2019 12:03am
simpleton1

A remembrance of all terror victims.

……intense, documentary-style thriller based on the four-day ordeal that saw Pakistani militants carry out a series of bombing and shooting attacks, killing at least 174. ……

….the decision was made “out of respect for a country in mourning”.

“Following the recent terrorist attacks in New Zealand, Icon Film Distribution have announced the suspension of the film “Hotel Mumbai” from all cinemas in New Zealand”.

…. suspended on Monday until March 28
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2019/03/terrorism-thriller-hotel-mumbai-pulled-from-all-new-zealand-cinemas.html

Lest we forget.
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March 22, 2019 1:00am
V

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-electoral-college-kass-20190320-story,amp.html

This column is a gem!
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March 22, 2019 1:47am

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