General Debate 20 March 2019

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Rich Prick

Any word on the Labour Party camp guy?
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March 20, 2019 8:02am
- RalphT
  
  I don’t think he is camp…
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:00am
  - Tall Man
    
    He groped a few boys as well. I guess “non discriminating” would be a better epithet 😉
    
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    March 20, 2019 10:00am
- stigie
  
  “Any word on the Labour Party camp guy?”
  
  Didn’t know he was camp..? //
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:09am
holysheet

Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Now you are being like the rest of them. Reacting to this tragedy by suggesting we increase the numbers at this time is not on. Lets all take a breather, chill out and wait for a while. By suggesting this you doing exactly what the lefties want to do.
Act In Haste Repent At Leisure.
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March 19, 2019 8:27pm
Posted this at 8.27 under immigration levels topic.
At 7 25 the next morning was still awaiting moderation.
Wait 12 hours to be moderated is not worth it.
Talk about over reacting. Kiwiblog is fucked. I am leaving and taking my rants, jokes, foul language and my Simon and Cindy parable and fucking off.
See ya in the next life as a jihardi. I want my 47 virgins.
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March 20, 2019 8:03am
- Crazy Ivan
  
  Maybe you should get Dissenter? You can then still comment here, but our generous host will not moderate your comments.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:45am
  - waikatogirl
    
    hs will hopefully be back on KB before the election with an extended Simon and Cindy parable? We will need all the support possible to remove this bunch of bozos from office in 2020.
    
    Two Ticks Blue ☑️☑️
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:01am
    - Mgberg
      
      Two ticks for the blue version of the pro Islam Socialist Boomer party?
      
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      March 20, 2019 9:33am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Why do I feel that democracy itself has died a bit?
      
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      March 20, 2019 11:51am
      - waikatogirl
        
        Because it has Rachael. Gone are individuals, we are all now part of a group…or meant to choose sides. Well, stuff that, I will make up my own mind in what I believe and who I support.
        
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        March 20, 2019 1:24pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Blocked…
    
    https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2019/03/dissenter-has-been-banned-in-nz/
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:18am
- Mgberg
  
  Yeah free speech and democracy doesn’t mean people who disagree with me about becoming an Islamic state get to sleek or participate in elections, this is what speech crime and electoral thresholds are for.
  
  Remember to vote for the ruling blue/red party, 2 ticks for the state party at the next election.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:38am
- Biscuit
  
  Aw, Holysheet, please reconsider.
  
  You are one of the genuine ‘good ‘uns’ in here.
  
  If DPF is moderating YOUR comments, you know these are difficult times for him and his blog.
  
  And re your 47 virgins, why, that might take you a month and a bit to ‘manage’. I never quite saw the appeal of that when e-t-e-r-n-i-t-y then beckoned!
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:57am
- Twinkletoes
  
  Oh, Holy – you deserve so much more, the natives get 72 apparently. Can’t make the number up personally but we must be able to find 25 adult virgins somewhere in Godzone shurely.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:57am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Are they desirable though or just good runners?
    
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    March 20, 2019 4:29pm
mikenmildagain

Bonjour mes enfants!
Happy International Froncophonie Day to you all.
Also celebratng today the International Day of Happiness, and World Sparrow Day!
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March 20, 2019 8:03am
- Batman
  
  Lol i do hope these are real, or do I?
  
  Either way, very amusing MM.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:02am
- stephen2d
  
  La Froncophonie? Jamais entendu de ça. C’est une fête fronçaise?
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:31am
- GoVege
  
  World sparrow day?
  All I’ve heard this morning have been seagulls and roosters! 🙂
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:56am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Don’t forget the crows.
    
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    March 20, 2019 4:30pm
Maggie Pie

First they came for the single use plastic bags, and I did not speak out – because i had already stashed heaps from Countdown.

Then…
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March 20, 2019 8:03am
- KiWombat
  
  Mags, I’m gathering quite a pile of Countdown baskets at home now. Even though they no longer give you plastic bags – they don’t seem to mind if you load stuff into a basket and load that into the car.
  
  I’ll wait until I get 100 or so, than load them into the ute and return them.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:41am
  - Lizziep
    
    I was told at one countdown that I was not able to take the basket from the store. Maybe its you who has taken them all and now they are panicking!!!! Filled out a survey for them the other day and asked for the bags to be returned.
    
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    March 20, 2019 3:24pm
holysheet

One last joke before I go
It’s now the new kiwiblog.
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March 20, 2019 8:04am
- Poppa
  
  Don’t be too hasty Holy, your comments are well received by yours truly & just because some rules have changed it doesn’t make them any less worthy of posting
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:13am
  - calendar girl
    
    Stay with us, Holysheet. you’ve devoted so much laughter and skillful story-telling to KB that this site will have lost its soul if you depart.
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:02pm
- dave_c_
  
  It’s all ready now for a massive ‘love fest’, in keeping with our comrade prime-ministers wishes, where no dissenting voice is permitted.
  
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  March 20, 2019 11:06am
- ztev
  
  Its the ‘kiwi’ kiwiblog ! hahahaha
  
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  March 20, 2019 12:25pm
Ford Prefect

A new day and a new name.

I havent commented since the events on Friday as I had to work out how I felt. Im not liking the armed police all over Wellington and Im disappointed this blog needs more policing. Both are understandable, but disappointing.
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March 20, 2019 8:05am
All_on_Red

‘Nor is there any evidence that banning the AR-15 would reduce criminality or mass shootings. There is no proof that the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (1994 to 2004) did much, or anything, to lower gun violence. What’s more: Once the assault weapon was lifted, and the AR-15 became the most popular rifle in the country, gun violence continue to precipitously fall.

Considering the political hysteria around crime, and the slight uptick in 2017, many Americans might not be aware that every category of violent crime has fallen to historic lows over the past 25 years. And while every school shooting is a distressing event, inflicting deep pain on individuals, communities, and the nation, it’s important to point out that despite the proliferation of the AR-15, schools are much safer today than they were 20 years ago—even school shootings are less common, according to researchers at Northeastern. Four times as many children were killed in schools in the early ’90s than today.

Not only has criminality dropped, but AR-15s are rarely used in the crimes, in general. If you need any more proof that the AR is singled out for political reasons, mostly due to its aesthetics, it’s worth noting that in 2017, the last year of FBI data, there were 7,105 Americans murdered by handguns and 374 by all rifles (only a fraction of which were AR-15s.) There were 1,604 knife homicides during that same span. There were 656 people killed by fists and kicking.’
http://thefederalist.com/2019/03/18/the-dishonest-campaign-against-the-ar-15/

The Australian experience is much the same. Gun crime was dropping anyway. Far better to vet owners more thoroughly.
Btw, what about those who objected to scrutiny of people by our Security forces who are now questioning why this guy was missed?
Hmmm
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March 20, 2019 8:07am
- Mgberg
  
  Yeah but it would disarm the public.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:39am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Nobble them too.
    
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    March 20, 2019 4:34pm
- kevn
  
  @All-on… Very quiet from the police, about their policy to centralize gun/arms inspection staff plan. Regional staff told to re-apply and go to Wellington.
  Now would be a very good time to reverse that, add more staff and actually do the job effectively.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:29am
- Gulag1917
  
  Travel through Switzerland and there are scores of soldiers at railway stations etc with rifle barrels pointing out of their backpacks = no terrorism.
  
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  March 20, 2019 3:51pm
Exclamation Mark

Mark Steyn has an interesting take as always:
https://www.steynonline.com/9249/calling-out-around-the-world.

“All jihad is local, but all “Islamophobia” is global. So, if a Muslim of Afghan origin shoots up a gay nightclub in Florida and kills 49 people, that’s just one crazed loner and no broader lessons can be discerned from his act. On the other hand, if a white guy shoots up two mosques in New Zealand and kills 50 people, that indicts us all, and we need to impose worldwide restraints on free speech to make sure it doesn’t happen again. I’m ecumenical enough to mourn the dead in both gay clubs and mosques, but I wonder why we are so conditioned to accept Islamic terror as (in the famous words of London mayor Sadiq Khan) “part and parcel of living in a big city” that it is only the exceptions to the rule that prompt industrial-scale moral preening from politicians and media”
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March 20, 2019 8:07am
- Scott
  
  I would agree with Mark Steyn. In January Muslim Jihadists killed 20 people in a cathedral in the Philippines. Earlier this month Muslim jihadists killed 30 people in a church in Nigeria. Over the last three months 120 Christians have been killed by Muslim jihadists in Nigeria alone.
  
  So there is a pattern of Muslims jihadists. But often they are described as “lone wolves” and not part of a larger pattern of Muslim violence and insurrection against non-Muslims and particularly Christians.
  
  However this one fellow from Australia comes in to New Zealand and kills 50 people in a mosque. I would have said that he is an example of a lone wolf. He doesn’t appear to have any accomplices. He appears to have acted totally on his own.
  
  But he is not described as a “lone wolf”. He is described as part of a larger pattern of alt right racism that is a huge problem in the West and in New Zealand.
  
  This despite the fact that I am unaware of a single other incident of a white Westerner going into shoot up a mosque. It has never happened before to my knowledge? And somehow it is part of a larger pattern!
  
  This is very unfortunate and should be corrected. He is the very definition of a “lone wolf”.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:54am
- krazykiwi
  
  That is an insightful comment from Steyn. Thanks for posting it.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:25am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Excellent! ?
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:48am
- Harriet
  
  Exactly.
  
  After all, what was written all over the guns and ammo he had weren’t names like Harriet, Peters, Garrett …. but people like the French military commander Martel – The Hammer – from 300yrs ago!!
  
  The only reason I added Garrett is to show how loose the connection is – his mother is French. There is no other connection that I can see between NZ and this single individual MINDED nutter from aussie. You can’t close down the library and burn all history books.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:50am
- ztev
  
  Not restraints on free speech .- Its was a snuff film about killing of children, women, men.
  You are sick if you think that qualifies as free speech under any circumstances.
  
  “Chief Censor David Shanks rated the gunman’s video objectionable on Monday – meaning it is banned and those who share it face a fine of up to $10,000 or up to 14 years jail.
  
  Shanks added that it is an offence to share this material as soon as it is produced, and the timing of the official classification does not affect the ability for police and enforcement agencies to prosecute offences under the Films, Videos & Publications Classification Act 1993.
  
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  March 20, 2019 12:27pm
gravedodger

Good Morning and good wishes. Pls can we have Sky News Australia back so get a glimpse of a real world from real reporters.
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March 20, 2019 8:07am
- Tall Man
  
  Nope, someone may say something nasty about ardern the liar.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:47am
- Jules99
  
  I’ve managed to get ABC live via You Tube a few times.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:53am
hullkiwi

What a surprise. First there was Erdouan in Turkdy, now the NY Times is reporting a spokesman for ISIS has started calling for retribution.

As a politics lecturer from Otago said on Red Radio this morning, these people and the moron on Friday are extremists in the same space.
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March 20, 2019 8:11am
- hullkiwi
  
  It was meant to be Turkey, not Turkdy.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:35am
  - Tall Man
    
    Turkdy looks good.. 🙂
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:13am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    An Ardernism
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:50am
  - greybeard
    
    I went to Turkdy once, nice place.
    
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    March 20, 2019 11:02am
    - projectman
      
      A nice place it once was.
      
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      March 20, 2019 1:59pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I think it’s the sacred home of that special bird…the Turducken….
      
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      March 20, 2019 2:25pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      ANZAC day has been fraught at Gallipoli before, it is coming up again soon, will people change their plans both Aussies and NZders, that wanker did us both in.
      
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      March 20, 2019 4:44pm
secondcumming

He who shall remain nameless, is now sitting in a seg cell at *Pare Max*…..no radio, telly, or newspapers. Shower time could be fun.
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March 20, 2019 8:11am
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

A-salaam aliekum Kiwibloggers.
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March 20, 2019 8:18am
- Swifty
  
  Peace be with you too, and your family and to your community.
  
  I hope you all live long and rewarding lives, here in NZ, in safety, security and abundance.
  
  I still think your religion is man-made hogwash however, and is harmful to human development, and I hope you and your community will do all you can to ensure I, and others, can speak out freely in saying so – whenever and wherever we care to.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:15am
MT_Tinman

I’m going to miss Kiwiblog.
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March 20, 2019 8:20am
- Ford Prefect
  
  Agreed
  
  Whats the point of commented if you cant get in a conversation. Its why commenting on Stuff has become a waste of time.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:29am
- dave_c_
  
  I also am seriously considering whether or not to remain with Kiwiblog.
  If it remains the way it is heading, it is no place I want to be.
  btw – I have to-date enjoyed the experience, the banter, the thought provoking commentary, the humour, the ‘truth’, and even the bastards along with the erudite.
  
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  March 20, 2019 11:11am
Rachael Membery

Am I the only person that objects to the 24/7 media commentary of the media.

They seem to be making a meal of this absolute tragedy.

Do other countries do this?

What is the future for Hagley Park, would it be a likely target for retribution?
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March 20, 2019 8:21am
- mark15
  
  All for a ‘good’ cause comrade
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:34am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    JA’s reelection?
    
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    March 20, 2019 8:56am
- Poppa
  
  I agree totally Rachael it is really sick what the media are doing. I guess it fills up space for them but I think most people are sick of their stories trying to dredge every ounce of rubbish up which may appear remotely connected
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:48am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    A desperate attempt to show the world, that we are now in the club….The “we have terrorists too club”.
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:22am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    And as per the first comment of the day; why is there no reporting of the events at the Northshore court?
    
    peterwn?
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:54am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Lets not exaggerate.
  It hasn’t even been 5 days yet, let alone 7.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:57am
  - Tall Man
    
    I think it’s the “search” for some “outrage” and rehashing the same stories that has become annoying.
    
    The total bias is also quite offensive to me.
    
    ISIS has murdered over 2,000 people, mostly muslim, over the past 12 months.
    
    The left have continally criticised our security services for the job they do, now they criticise for not doing the job well enough.
    
    Hypocrisy is offensive in my opinion.
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:12am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I do not mean that it should be forgotten but Amanda Gillies down there in Christchurch interviewing all and sundry, I am sorry but I find that level of scrutiny obscene.
    How are the families to start coming to terms with the events when it is in their face whether they want it to be or not.
    
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    March 20, 2019 11:33am
- Rich Prick
  
  They’ve even found folk prepared to moan about the price of airfares for anyone who wants to visit from India or Pakistan. Apparently it is terrible that Air New Zealand doesn’t service those countries. Some media outlets should give some thought to moderating themselves.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:05am
  - Niz
    
    Pakistani airspace is open again? I saw a picture of their airspace the other day. Not a single aircraft was over their country.
    
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    March 20, 2019 12:31pm
- alloytoo
  
  No you’re not.
  
  While we’re interested in the ongoing investigation by police, we are switching off what has become a wallowing soap opera.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:08am
- John Warren
  
  No, you are not.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:32am
- Kevin Herlihy
  
  You can never underestimate the impact and gravitas this awful tragedy has had on the people of New Zealand.
  Tributes,candle vigils and personal stories have been brought to all via the media, who like many have been stunned by the events that unfolded
  The eyes of the world are upon our little nation, we have been struck with an unspeakable crime that transcends cultures and religious beliefs, and the world is watching us and joining in our sorrow and grief.
  This event will dominate the worlds media for some time as commentators look for reasons why it occurred and how we can prevent this from happening elsewhere.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:59am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    True. I don’t think it is an event that will quickly fade from the news cycle, and nor should it.
    
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    March 20, 2019 11:28am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    And here again.
    
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    March 20, 2019 11:29am
- Biscuit
  
  Blame CNN and its starting what I call ‘Disasterporn’ coverage, Rachael.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:59am
- howitis
  
  I agree.
  The wall to wall coverage is over the top and I have literally switched off.
  I set the DVR to record Boyz n the Hood last night – Tuesday – on Duke and on playback this morning it was replaced with some Jennifer Anniston thing.
  Boyz N the Hood is a seminal movie with incredible acting that launched or cemented careers and has a phenomenal 96% on Rotten tomatoes.
  The current censorship is extreme and unhealthy.
  Bill Clinton, as President, in 1993 said of the movie
  “The best thing is for us to ask ourselves what can be done to break the link without muzzling the creators. For example, I watched Boyz n the Hood very carefully. While it was very violent, it had no romance about the violence. That is a movie I would’ve wanted a lot of elementary-age kids in the inner city to see, because there was no romance. It was a mean, ugly, sad, heartbreaking tale of basically good kids who wanted to have a decent life who had it taken away from them.”
  
  To be honest I follow little NZ news and am more interested in the Brexit process.
  
  In the weekend I visited a sleep deprived young mother whom I have known all her life. He concerns are with getting some sleep and getting through the day while she nurtures her young daughter into being a able to walk, talk and become a decent citizen in her own right.
  
  Not everyone is immersed in this event.
  I find the breathless media coverage is becoming ghoulish and will stimulate trauma rather than begin healing.
  That’s just me.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:49am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Rachael: hey, you should be shopping for a headscarf instead of commenting here; even Mike Hosking seems to think it’s a good idea for women to wear one this Friday.
  
  Centuries of fighting for equal male/female rights and then NZ just accepts this concept of hijab being the way to show ‘solidarity’.
  
  People Hosking’s age know perfectly well that hijab is seen as a sign of oppression by many moderate muslim and ex-muslim people, for instance Persians who escaped what became Iran.
  
  He should at least have presented the different points of view. But he just went along with the concept of hijab showing ‘solidarity’.
  
  Wrong, Hosking. I think solidarity of Kiwis should be with moderate muslim women who want to be free from hijab.
  
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  March 20, 2019 11:07am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Best just not to go out on Friday then. Muslin women I have sen wearing a head covering do not seem to show hair, is it offensive to wear a headscarf incorrectly?
    
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    March 20, 2019 4:52pm
    - waikatogirl
      
      I won’t bother. I don’t suit hats or a headscarf.
      
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      March 20, 2019 8:18pm
  - calendar girl
    
    Ardern’s hijab has little to do with solidarity or sympathy for victims of this murderous outrage. In my view, it’s an opportunist “look at me” gesture to promote her “empathy”, for political purposes. Our empty-vessel PM is all about PR, and I suspect that there is little that she says or does that is not scrutinised in advance by political advisors.
    
    Now who truly believes that her latest “I will never say his name” initiative was her personal brainwave? It sounds like a self-flattering initiative from an advisor who is far more mentally alert and politically-opportunist than his or her political mistress.
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:48pm
- madamezucchininz
  
  ….I agree….we get articles on what to tell or not tell children…..and then there are the media interviewing very young children about it….FFS…..we need to get back to normal now and the media need to step back……think of all the children whose innocence has been shattered…..seeing fear on the face of my grandson who is only five and cannot possibly process this….is just awful…..enough already MSM…..
  
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  March 20, 2019 11:23am
Maggie Pie

Can you believe that Australia’s Ch 7 has removoed this pic from there twitter account because of what it says were “nasty trolls makig derogatory comments”

Women in sport – i say GO GIRL!!

https://twitter.com/taylaharriss/status/1107933757976117249
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March 20, 2019 8:27am
- Tall Man
  
  Now back on.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:47am
Padriv Ustoev

Kiwi blog is changing. So is New Zealand.
What is going on?
First draconian changes to moderation. Then a hysterical virtue signal post about increasing immigration. Did someone get a bit of a talking to by the police in the wake of the shooting?
Told off for hosting a hotbed of wrongthink?
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March 20, 2019 8:28am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I can only assume that our host:
  – Fears that our posts on KiwiBlog might get him into trouble
  – Has already been warned that our posts on KiwiBlog might get him into trouble
  – Has already gotten into trouble, and is complying
  
  Questions:
  – Who is the threat/influencer over KiwiBlog?
  – Who does KiwiBlog fear?
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:58am
- Harriet
  
  Being cautious I’d think.
  As you can see there are people calling for the Crusaders to change their name, while others here, who have for a long time shown how thoughtful, rational and forward thinking they are, have given thought to gun laws, speech, laws and immigration laws amongst other things.
  Everyone here has been compassionate as those who have been calling for name changes, speech restrictions and gun restrictions.
  
  The difference is emotions, largely from shock, terror in other words, and I’d guess in time when things have settled down KB will return to somewhere near how it was. [I’m not suggesting dpf is emotional, but being cautious in response to the situation, probably in it’s entirety]
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:03am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Well, perhaps. But it does seem pretty obvious this morning, in the wake of the changes, that those using their real names seem to be more measured, more sensible in their posts, while those who stick to their nom-de-plumes are, should we say, a little more emotional?
  
  Perhaps David simply got sick of trawling through so much anger. It can get to you, ya know.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:27am
  - Tall Man
    
    Please show these “emotional” anonymous posts for reference.
    
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    March 20, 2019 2:31pm
Crazy Ivan

There are lots of questing regarding Friday, but I’m not sure this is a site where we are allowed to ask these questions anymore, but here goes:
Why has the Herald stealth edited a March 15 article to remove mention of “A well known Muslim local chased the shooters and fired two shots at them as they sped off.
He was heard telling police officers he was firing in “self-defence”.
“They were in a silver Subaru,” he told police.”

I thought firing in self-defence was not a valid legal defence under the Firearms Act.
Will he be charged under the Act? If not, why not?
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March 20, 2019 8:35am
- MCos
  
  Probably because it didn’t happen.
  Don’t believe everything you read in the NZ Herald.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:00am
  - Crazy Ivan
    
    So they are allowed to write absolute BS, then edit it without stating the reason for edit or that they did an edit, and not face any consequences? Since the NZ ISPs are blocking sites deemed not ‘truthful’, why do the ISPs allow the NZ population to still access the NZ Herald?
    
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    March 20, 2019 9:18am
  - ztev
    
    Didnt happen, when some one called crazy ivan thinks it did…well
    
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    March 20, 2019 12:31pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I don’t see you responding to my post below citing the article.
      
      I do see you excalating your insults though.
      
      Feeling a little empowered are you?
      
      I still see you as a disgusting little troll.
      
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      March 20, 2019 2:33pm
- Tall Man
  
  “One Friday prayer goer returned fire with a rifle or shotgun,” the Herald reported. “A well-known Muslim local chased the shooters and fired two shots at them as they sped off. He was heard telling police officers he was firing in ‘self-defense.’”
  
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/worshipper-killed-as-he-fought-back-against-new-zealand-mosque-shooter
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:08am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    WOW, I watched the video for this very reason
    so when someone bullshits, I can call them on it.
    I call BULLSHIT on the Herald.
    
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    March 20, 2019 5:17pm
- cmm
  
  “I thought firing in self-defence was not a valid legal defence under the Firearms Act.”
  
  Not so.
  
  You can use a firearm for self defence, just like any other weapon, within the least force principle.
  
  What is not allowed is owning a firearm for the purposes of self defence. If you mention self defence as a reason for applying for a gun license you will not get it.
  
  Of course the shotgun you legally bought for rabbit shooting could work equally well for self defence if need be.
  
  When I got a firearms license I (truthfully) said it was for hunting mainly pests and target shooting. They ask a standard question as to whether you would use a firearm for self defence and I said yes I would as an extreme last resort to protect myself of persons under my care. I would not use it to defend property. That was an acceptable response and I got my license no worries.
  
  For the slow of wit: I do not condone breaking the law or fraud. I am not at all suggesting you lie to the firearms officer or the police or purchase any firearms for self defence.
  
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  March 20, 2019 12:54pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “For the slow of wit”… This isn’t the standard you know 😉
    
    “In the Arms Code, Police advise that self-defense is not a valid reason to possess a firearm. A person is required to have an honest belief that they or someone else is at imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm at the time they discharge the firearm.”
    
    So yes, shooting at someone fleeing the scene is not an acceptable use of a firearm.
    
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    March 20, 2019 2:35pm
    - cmm
      
      I only add the disclaimer in case some idiot tries to manipulate my statement to say I am inciting people to find loop holes in the law or such.
      
      I’ll preface this with saying I am not a lawyer and I am not aware of the finer points of NZ law.
      
      Firing at a car that is driving off is probably not a case of self defence.
      
      But it is Ok to use a firearm in a genuine case of self defence in extreme cases.
      
      Of course protecting your own person is self defence, but what about others? It is also clear self defence if you are protecting your spouse or kids etc. They can expect your protection under natural law.
      
      In some places, eg. South Africa, self defence also applies in the case of someone you choose to put under your protection. eg. You see someone being beaten up and choose to intervene to protect them. I would expect the same standard to apply in NZ.
      
      In that case, the person in the car could make the case of self defence if he is protecting someone who is being attacked.
      
      I would think though that cases like this are so extreme that it would be challenging to find any precedents.
      
      Perhaps one of the legal wonks could clarify?
      
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      March 20, 2019 3:10pm
- Niz
  
  It’s actually a bit of a worry that he was shooting at multiple people, given that there was only one shooter.
  And, while it’s completely understandable, shooting at somebody while they speed off, doesn’t seem to fit the ‘self-defence’ argument. The imminent threat was (as he put it) speeding away.
  
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  March 20, 2019 1:03pm
Paulus

I understand that most of these tragic victims and their families are on Temporary Visas.
Will this be changed ?
Immigration Minister Less Galloway was talking about giving them Citizenship.
Will this include family members who have arrived to comfort these victims of this atrocity ?
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March 20, 2019 8:36am
gravedodger

I always considered Orwell’s 1984 a novel, 35 years on and doubts are emerging.
Was Blair really at the creation of “deep state”?
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March 20, 2019 8:37am
alex Masterley

The 1984 play book writ large.
I will still read Kiwiblog but my commenting volume, such as it is, will diminish as I want to keep my moniker and wont be using my real name, for both professional and privacy reasons.
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March 20, 2019 8:39am
marcw

So we have media spraying out accusations of right wing haters, alt-right terrorists, and white supremacists, along with all their usual look at me virtue signalling sycophantic and paid opinion writers.

So what do we make of 2 headlines I have already seen today in today’s Fairfax news:
“Trump represents sickness that caused this ” and
“Carrey blames Trump for attacks“.

I refuse to click on their links, but ask who are the real hatemongers in our society, who is it that incites and promotes negative sections of the community? The Government and international do-gooders are blaming ‘Facebook’ – perhaps some of the blame should be directed elsewhere, and can be found closer to home.
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March 20, 2019 8:43am
- Tall Man
  
  If you want to see real hate in action, glance at Simon Bridges’ social media accounts.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:05am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yesterday, we had Dame Anne Salmon in the Herald spraying her brand of hatred. When I pointed the opinion piece out to my wife her response was “What?”.
  
  Then when I read some it to her, my wife had a reaction that indicated her anger levels had risen and she had been invited by Salmon’s inflammatory opinion piece.
  
  In summary we know see:
  1. Someone (in this case Salmon) is permitted space in the media to voice their opinion;
  2. The opinion can be inglamatory;
  3. But because it is from the left of the political divide and it is attacking the wrongs of the perceived/recognized oppressors (white Kiwis) this opinion is beyond reproach, while contrary opinion is not valid.
  
  That is hypocrisy;
  That is rubbish; and
  It has no place in a democracy.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:20am
- James Stephenson
  
  I’ve responded to a couple of “It’s the fault of white men” type posts with the counter allegation that no, it’s the fault of idiot left wing social justice types.
  
  It’s they who have spent the best part of the last decade dividing the world up into competing identity groups, so it’s no wonder that eventually a member of the group that allegedly has all the power, but personally feels like they have none, will lash out violently.
  
  This is what happens when moderate, reasoned, centrist voices are labelled “racist” and “islamophobic”. It’s not the likes of Sam Harris that have enabled this tragedy, it’s all those that see a member of some group in a power hierarchy before they see an individual.
  
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  March 20, 2019 11:57am
Inandout

Mike Hosking’s show has heavy advertising, advertisers flock to popular programmes, this is capitalism at work.
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March 20, 2019 8:46am
- ztev
  
  The most popular news program – counted in surveys- is Radio NZ Mornnig Report . But it doesnt have advertising
  
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  March 20, 2019 12:34pm
  - Inandout
    
    RNZMR is for the left of field and stay at homes. I doubt advertisers would bother with them anyway.
    
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    March 20, 2019 3:21pm
All_on_Red

Looks like France is going to veto any Brexit extension request.
The 29th it is then.
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March 20, 2019 8:49am
- Tall Man
  
  I have limited knowledge of this but imagine living in a country where the bulk of your laws and activities were controlled by an organisation removed from your own country and one that you have little control over…
  
  Doesn’t that sound a little like the UN in our “future world” as championed by clark and ardern the liar?
  
  Even worse, doesn’t that also sound a little like a “media nominated super star” being pushed so hard by the media that we end up with a pm that less than 50% of our country voted for?
  
  Is this the the new world and we have to get used to it or are we still allowed to push back? If so, where can we push back from?
  
  Anyone?
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:03am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Turkeys voting for early Xmas?
  France is one of the countries that will be worse off than the UK when BREXIT happens.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:08am
- MCos
  
  Someone has to kick the UK off the cliff.
  David Attenborough can record what happens . . . .
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:12am
  - waikatogirl
    
    That’s actually funny MCos ? and I agree with you for once.
    Thanks for the much-needed chuckle!
    
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    March 20, 2019 1:54pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Good. Yes, there will be some challenges and possibly small clusters of chaos after a hard Brexit, but I firmly believe the UK’s future will be brighter if it’s not beholden to the creaking, socialist bureaucracy that is the EU
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:14am
- hullkiwi
  
  That is contrary to the conundrum May has in her Parliament thanks to the Tory Labourite of a Speaker John Bercow.
  
  Although it is against tradition the Tories need to deselect that piece of slime and send him and his wife packing.
  
  Bercow is a living example of a Labour lite Tory.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:24am
- freethinker
  
  If this leads to the UK leaving the EU I will congratulate France for allowing the democratic vote of the British citizens to become fact. I will not forget however the threats and bad mouthing by France and others when choosing were to spend my holiday and goods purchasing dollars.
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:07pm
- Ross12
  
  All_on_Red
  Yes the whole process in getting interesting.
  May wants a third vote on her deal (in good EU fashion –keep voting until you get the answer you want.
  Bercow says no vote unless a major change to the deal ( obviously was not going to happen). Bercow has been reading the tea leaves and going for self preservation.
  
  May says she will go for an extension , in desperation. ( Not sure if that is even possible under the UK’s own Withdrawal Act of 2018)
  
  Barnier (chief EU negotiator) now says the UK should complete plans for a “no deal” and even added that the vote in the UK Parliament to take “no deal” off the table does not stop it happening.
  
  Now you say France will not vote for an extension which is interesting because last week it came out that Tony Blair was advising Macron on Brexit. We know Blair is a firm Remainer.
  So it looks like many behind the scenes now realise Brexit is inevitable on March 29.
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:12pm
Politburo of the Democratic Peoples Republic of Aotearoa

Comrades,
I cant even write a parody for this.

So long and thanks for all the fish!

-Disillusioned Voter.
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March 20, 2019 8:57am
RW Capitalist

She makes a good speech, our PM, but just like:
The trees planted
The houses built

The bodies have not been returned today for burial
The Mosque will not be ready by Friday prayers.

Promises made, promises broken.
All talk no action
I gather the autopsies have been done, but in the special case of the 4 year old, they claim the bodies haven’t be identified, really? There was only one 4 year old.
In the case of the return of the Mosque, man power is the only issue, immediately got to AWF or some other temp outfit and get 100 people to start cleaning, offer workmen (glaziers, carpet layers plasters immediate contracts (lots of them) and get the job DONE.
But it seems more important to “get the message across” than the work done…AGAIN!!!
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March 20, 2019 9:02am
RW Capitalist

Heard about this Imam, from Australia, a consultant to the Australian Govt., was stopped at the boarder, as he came to help.
Where was the Immigration minister?
You know, the one that gave the bad cheque, residency without reading the report.
Surely a phone call or 2 is all that was required, before he embarrassed NZ on our behalf?
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March 20, 2019 9:05am
- Inandout
  
  RW, the last thing we need are Imams ‘advising’ their kiwi flock. Don’t forget your head scarf on Friday.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:16am
- Tall Man
  
  Aussie sorted it.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:38am
- simpleton1
  
  Previously posted comment on “A charming guy” post.
  A good show of hands of muslims in Norway to
  Fahad Ullah Qureshi questions, showing great awareness of moderation.
  https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/norway-islamic-leader-every-muslim-wants-death-penalty-homosexuals
  And then if one wishes to watch the video on that link. 3 mins 23 secs.
  
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  March 20, 2019 10:59am
Tauhei Notts

I have enjoyed Kiwiblog for many years now. It has always been a scene for robust political debate. I should underline the word robust, but I do not know how to do that.
I feel the rough and tumble thrust of this site may diminish in the near future. That will be really sad.
What impressed me about this site was when I was away from NZ for seven weeks last year. Kiwiblog was able to give me a better insight into what was happening in my country, in my absence, than were either the Stuff or NZ Herald news sites.
Because Kiwiblog had the cold hard truth, not the sanitised public relations consultants’ pap. Okay, there was a bit of crap in there, but those of us with an adequate bullshit detector could ignore that. If we lose that cold hard truth we are the losers.
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March 20, 2019 9:05am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Well said that man.
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:10am
- Mgberg
  
  Yep so much truth
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:40am
- Piniwi
  
  Thanks TN is an even bigger challenge having lived off shore for over 6 years to get some real news until finding Kiwiblog. It is obvious that DPF is struggling with the biggest test of his decision making skill set with the ultimate goal to keep KB a free and open platform. WO is bleeding followers from so many self inflected cuts it has become a shaky platform with the publishing of OQT questions the most reliable viewing. Perhaps that could also be included on KB as a public announcement leaving off comments to be offered after the event separately? Whatever the outcome of deliberations it might be well to consider the sentiments of the song “The First Cut Is The Deepest”.
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:49pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Not to mention the fun.
  
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  March 20, 2019 4:58pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was saying he hopes that silly old coot from Dunedin doesnt come back again to have another gloat about moderation here like he did yesterday.
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March 20, 2019 9:08am
krazykiwi

I’m abandoning LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram until there’s an abatement in torrent of fawning posts depicting a concerned-faced PM in a prayer scarf.
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March 20, 2019 9:09am
Yvette

Alright, the response to this Christchurch abomination is going to be long-lived and thorough. I wanna be pointed to where NZ neo-nazis are hanging out and talking shit. Our data team can begin some high-level analysis, and we’ll see where it takes us. Hit me up via DM or email. – Matt Nippert

Were/are you a nazi?
No, actual nazis do not exist.They haven’t been a political or social force anywhere in the world for more than 60 years …
Were/are you a neo-nazi?
That is a very broad category of people, and the definition is fuzzy at best. So no, I don’t believe so. – Tarrant manifesto

Tarrant’s actions are an absolute moral obscenity in relation to his own agenda.
So, how much of a similar moral abomination is it to use the same killings to push any other agenda?
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March 20, 2019 9:15am
Manolo

At least the venal Mr Peters is consistent:
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/peters-defends-past-statements-on-muslims-and-extremism/ar-BBUWD5W
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March 20, 2019 9:15am
- Happychappy
  
  Enough of the bullshit Winston one election and you could be forgiven but it happens every election and that not a coincidence, let’s hope the voter punish you and your Party for these past comments.
  
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  March 20, 2019 3:50pm
Tauhei Notts

Different bit for General Debate. Those Fonterra financial results; NORMALISED earnings before interest and tax are down 29%. This seems serious to me and comments thereon would be welcomed.
Or, am I worrying unnecessarily?
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March 20, 2019 9:21am
- RW Capitalist
  
  recession coming.
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:22pm
lastmanstanding

Just seen DPFs post on moderation from late yesterday. While I understand his approach sadly as others have said this is what Tarrant and Left want. they want to shut down conservatives such as myself or force us into the open where they can attack us and our beliefs.

The Left are doing all they can to shut down discussions they dont like such as freedom of speech, immigration, whites place in our society.

Sadly they are winning as more and more conservatives will go “offline: rather than make the somethings difficult attempt to debate the issues.

I intend to continue to post as Lastmanstanding because I fear that is what I will become and also why chose this anon way back in 2003.

Freedoms are too important to give up the fight for. Our current Government and its supporters are determined to take away our freedoms.

Im not going to give in with out at least a debate.
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March 20, 2019 9:22am
Random T Person

I see WhaleOil appears to have suspended its anti-Muslim crusade. Does that make them cowards? Or what?
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March 20, 2019 9:33am
- Inandout
  
  No they haven’t.
  
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  March 20, 2019 3:24pm
Gravelroad

HDPA is going full bore on newstalkzb this morning reckoning that the NRA is going to “interfere” in NZ politics to mitigate any new gun laws.
She is really emotionally worked up about it all and is begging gun owners not to join in the the alleged NRA “campaign”.
This is getting a bit bizarre……..
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March 20, 2019 9:34am
- hullkiwi
  
  Sorry this is the same woman who broke the law (& got away with it) when purchasing a gun to do a story on TV. Rich!
  
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  March 20, 2019 1:48pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Hypocritical maybe…
    
    Guns are not the issue. It looks to me that the “process” involved in licensing this nutjob may not have been as rigorous as that we get around here and as rigourous as it should have been.
    
    Do we now ascertain and then publicly pillory those who maybe didn’t do a sterling job in this case like the media have done to the owner of Gun City?
    
    FFS people, take a step back, take a breath and try to look at this tragedy with a balanced view.
    
    We have maybe 1 million plus firearms in New Zealand and excluding gang members we have how many gun related homicides per decade.
    
    If we look at a number of 1.2 million firearms times the number of days in a month, we have possibly 30 million interactions with firearms and how many tragedies?
    
    So far to day I have removed a rabbit and a magpie from this earth and I am fairly certain that I am not the only one to do this in my immediate neighbourhood.
    
    Let’s not focus on the type of firearm as it is fairly irrelevant, let’s make sure our licensing processes are robust and able to weed out potential nutjobs. According to some dipshit professor from OZ, their gun laws have prevented 16 mass shootings in the past 21 years, a mass shooting being defind as 3 or more victims.
    
    What a load of rubbish.
    
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    March 20, 2019 3:01pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Tall Man you are spot on. Like you I live in Northland (politically Auckland). Between my neighbours and me (all of us have firearms licences) we have enough firearms to upset any liberal lefty. However, these weapons are properly secured, and arm used for a combination of hunting, pest eradication and stock home kill.
      
      When the likes of HDPA and other urban liberal lefties show a modicum of understanding rural NZ, then I might read/listen to what these people have to say.
      
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      March 20, 2019 4:51pm
    - Scooter
      
      Seriously you shot a Magpie, very intelligent bird, better objects to target.
      
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      March 21, 2019 1:53am
- RW Capitalist
  
  After buying what appeared to be an illegal firearm.
  Isn’t she a member?
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:24pm
secondcumming

I got a bit of a fright yesterday. The woman next door came over and bashed on our front door. She wanted to know if I knew anything about the underwear that had gone missing off her clothesline. Honestly, I nearly shit her pants.
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March 20, 2019 9:38am
Than

Regarding changing the Crusaders name, I think the franchise is doing the right thing in consulting the Muslim community. But I also agree with Scott Robertson’s comment that people should take time to grieve first. Let the emotions subside, then make a decision.

I guess my main question is, does the name genuinely cause widespread offense to Muslims? If so then yes, the name needs to be re-considered. But I’ve never got any impression that was the case.

I know a few Muslims, and I don’t recall any of them ever expressing a problem with it; a couple were big Crusaders fans. However the Muslims I know are (or were when I knew them) all relatively casual about their religion. While they self-describe as Muslim, few attended Friday prayers, some would come out and have a beer with us, a couple would even eat pork. Its possible Muslims who feel more strongly about their beliefs might have a different view.

But for now the next step is clear; consult with the Muslim community and see if the name is widely considered offensive by Muslims. However “widely” is a keyword there; you can always find one or two individuals offended by anything. And we should also be wary of the reverse selection bias to mine above – Muslims who are highly involved with the local mosque are likely to be more devout, and may not be representative of wider community opinion.
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March 20, 2019 9:39am
Swifty

An interesting piece from Sam Harris on CHC, the reaction from some on the left and their dishonesty, he and Jordan Peterson being personally blamed for CHC and our inability as a society to debate these issues openly and honestly etc etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqOdDV7Brq4
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March 20, 2019 9:43am
kloyd0306

Some say……..

The Christchurch tragedy would not have happened if there were no guns.

But what if there were no mosques?
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March 20, 2019 9:49am
auckwood

A note to the free speech coalition, our disgusting MSM, virtue signalling SJW’s and KB fanatical lefties….

With exception to the gun law changes (imho totally unnecessary) New Zealand could’ve had more level headed, fact based discourse and debates around the topics of immigration, integration, ideology, religion, terrorism & tribalism that we are currently having, without the senseless death of 50 innocent civilians if you let Lauren Southern & Stefan Molyneux speak in this country.

Maybe that public debate could’ve opened the shooters eyes and changed his perception. Maybe it would’ve made no difference. But anyone with a concern after events in Europe regarding Muslims & immigrants is instead labelled a racist, any narrative that is different from ‘let them all in’ is shamed for being racist or Islamophobic, it removes the opportunity to talk, inform or understand until someone murders 50 people in their place of worship.

Pat yourselves on the back….
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March 20, 2019 10:16am
trout

How is this for virtue signalling? A farmer (not just your bog ordinary farmer but apparently a Green election candidate) hands in his semi automatic pea shooter to the police in the presence of an invited TV camera crew.
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March 20, 2019 10:26am
Tall Man

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214455

Come on New Zealand, for fucks sake cut out the stupidity.

Television channels all over the world, NZ included, showed live the events of 9/11.

We were presented with non stop tragedy on a massive scale for hours on end which included closeups of victims on the ground and people ending their lives jumping out of the buildings in preference to being burned to death.

Almost 3,000 people died that day and we were able to witness that in gruesome detail.

Virtually all the beheadings over the past ten years have been live streamed and viewed by millions, possibly billions yet we are reacting in this way over the Christchurch massacre because……

We are allowing the strident cries of a bunch of idiots to rule over the vast majority of the rest of us.

I did not watch the video nor read the entire “manifesto” and still have no desire to do so but would I fire a staff member who did….definitely not.

A few years ago a couple were videoed in a sexual encounter, where they thought they were in private, and that video was shared throughout the world including while it was live. That was titillating so the destruction visited on the two participants was accepted and brushed of by the “social media” world.

Without a doubt, this world is on the precipice and I doubt we have the ability to wrest control back from these fucking loonies.
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March 20, 2019 10:30am
- hullkiwi
  
  Tall Man, you are spot on about your observation. When 9/11 occured, it was just in 2pm in London when we started to get reports about what had happened. As you said that evening when I got home we were able to get total coverage of what had happened. Further, I recall seeing the TV showing repeated images of people falling to their deaths from those buildings and there was no censorship by any of the news media outlets then. So, what is different now?
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:29pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Social media fucktard snowflakes trying to out do each other in senseless virtue signalling.
    
    It was reported that the complaint about the “Crusaders’ ” name came from anoymous staff within stuff.
    
    We had an article about a woman “concerned” about her 16 year old son being exposed to the video and manifesto of the nutjob yet I’ll allow that same 16 year old is an avid watcher of the “Walking Dead” plus the many violent video games that are part of our current world.
    
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    March 20, 2019 2:50pm
billr

Mercifully, Dave Dobbyn has been quiet. Small mercy agreed, but a mercy nonetheless.
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March 20, 2019 10:40am
Rachael Membery

If any community should be disaster prepared surely it should be Christchurch, when the CCTV building collapsed, the bodies had to be removed from a broken structure, why is it taking so long?
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March 20, 2019 10:59am
Rachael Membery

I note that there was a 2 million dollar donation from the Chinese businessman named in giving a donation to National currently with the SFO, the total was gathered from different contributors combined in the one cheque, that would appear to be how they do business.
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March 20, 2019 11:04am
- KiWombat
  
  I had only heard reference to $100,000 until this – where did it come from?
  
  A 2 million windfall is real Shame Jones territory !
  
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  March 20, 2019 3:00pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Sorry was $1.2 m
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213554
    
    The article has changed since I read it over the weekend, as they do, possibly not the amount, but references to other donations they have made is missing.
    
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    March 20, 2019 3:08pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I’ve never been a fan of gangs or the Media’s attempts to portray Gangs in a good light.

Am I the only one who sees the action of Mongrel Mobsters protecting the Hamilton Mosque in an ominous light?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12214449
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March 20, 2019 11:15am
Tall Man

A criticised but permitted comment on The Standard…

“Skunk Weed 3.1.3
19 March 2019 at 3:58 pm
White Trash the same as Farrar.

[lprent: If you only want to denigrate without explaining why you have these opinions, then eventually I will ban you from the site. Don’t you understand the meaning of “robust debate”? In your case at present that means you should not fondle your dick while commenting on this site. Read the policy. ]”

Nice and yet we are being accused of extreme views.
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March 20, 2019 11:28am
rightoverlabour

I heard people are getting fired for watching the video at work? Will Barry Soper be fired?
I have grave fears for freedom of speech here since this attack.
And I absolutely hold that the video should not be watched or shared or hosted. But to get fired? Unless one was using it to be racist or promote the terrorist agenda, It seems a bit harsh.
Lastly, I read a facebook post from South Africa on this. They have about 50 murders every day. Yet the world remains silent. Why? I am sickened to my stomach over the deaths on Friday, as I am over the deaths in South Africa. This has brought back a lot of really bad memories….
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March 20, 2019 11:30am
- Ross12
  
  On Friday I did a very rare thing ,for me, and clicked onto CNN. They were reporting on ChCh with their reporter based in Hong Kong presenting the detail.
  What she said and the fine detail of it could have only come from watching the video (ie. the detail was very graphic). So where is the outrage towards CNN ?
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:21pm
Tokyo_Joe

Latest musings from Cactus Kate :

“Oh Look All You “Cool” Kids An ISIS Threat – WWJD – What Will Jacinda Do?”

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2019/03/oh-look-kids-isis-threat-wwjd-what-will.html
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March 20, 2019 12:10pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/professor-samuel-abrams-spoke-the-truth-he-still-pays-the-price/

This is why I choose to post anonymously, and will continue to do so. Our call out culture will attempt to shame a person by any way possible for any perceived slight.
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March 20, 2019 12:14pm
- Tall Man
  
  See the post below.
  
  Even keeping your gob shut can get you into trouble with nutjobs trying to control everyone else.
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:16pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Tall Man you are spot on. Like you I live in Northland (politically Auckland). Between my neighbours and me (all of us have firearms licences) we have enough firearms to upset any liberal lefty. However, these weapons are properly secured, and arm used for a combination of hunting, pest eradication and stock home kill.
  
  When the likes of HDPA and other urban liberal lefties show a modicum of understanding rural NZ, then I might read/listen to what these people have to say.
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:44pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Slightly rightly, the link you gave is scary. Last year, during the height of the Massey University scrap with the Chancellor, DPF put up a post about how academic research and debate is being squashed by the liberal elite. The irony being these people are anything but liberal.
  
  The other irony is that these “liberals” such as the SLG are always telling us they want a “conversation”, but a true debate of ideas is the last thing they really want.
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:51pm
JibberJabber

Have we hit the bottom of the barrel yet?
This is what it has come to, a successful young model getting ripped up on social media for not virtue signalling, not wanting to make it all about her, like others have.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12214459
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March 20, 2019 12:16pm
- hullkiwi
  
  JJ, it is the bottom of the barrel stuff that is common overseas. Such bottom feeders see it as their duty to shame people (particularly the famous) into making pronouncements that are in line with how they think.
  
  Then if the comment is not what they want, they kick the person or even worse accuse them of exploiting the situation for their on grandiosement.
  
  They are bottom feeders given strength as a keyboard warrior.
  
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  March 20, 2019 5:59pm
cmm

PriNZess was at Cashmere High calling on them to help fight against racism.

Would that be all racism or just some racism?

Will she condemn:
* Race-based preferential voting.
* Race-based preferential enrollment at universities etc.
* Race-based scholarships
* Race-based employment
* Race-based tax-payer funding for health, education, housing, …
* Her deputy prime minister making racist remarks. (various).
* Her justice minister making racist remarks (blaming “colonialism” – code for white people – for Maori under achievement).
* Various other of her MPs making racist remarks (pale male stale etc).

Attempting to just get rid of anti-brown racism while bolstering anti-white racism will fuel the problem, not make it go away.

Getting rid of racism is something I fully support, but it is a two-way street.
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March 20, 2019 12:20pm
- DigNap15
  
  Brilliant.
  
  I have just cut and pasted that list.
  We will be ablr to use it many times in the near future.
  As you say its a two way street.
  
  @White people matter (they pay most of the taxes)
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:42pm
paulops

Have heard police say they knew where this shit was heading when they stopped him. Corrections say he has no access to news ,phones etc what do you think they are offering him so they can get info they need??
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March 20, 2019 12:29pm
- Tall Man
  
  Maybe to stop wacking him in the head?
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:10pm
Garbageman

43 comments since 8AM all of our tolerant left wing friends wet dreams finally coming true what a sad time for us all, its not like we can ever rely on the (not mainstream) media these days to be fully informed in fact quite the opposite, hopefully some of the great commentators i have enjoyed over the years will drift back, not being an overly political person by nature i have relied on KB & other site to keep me informed but i have a sinking feeling this is just the tip of a very slippery slope
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March 20, 2019 12:39pm
Niz

Right-wing. I see this shooter being described as right-wing (even though it’s disputable), as though this is a bad thing. Is it?
I see DPF is also sometimes described as right-wing, but there is no way these two people can be compared.
Is ‘right-wing’ something other than anti-socialist, anti-communist, pro-capitalist, pro-free speech, anti-SJW?
I think I’d describe myself as right-wing. It doesn’t seem like a bad thing to me.
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March 20, 2019 12:42pm
- cmm
  
  Draw yourself a Bell Curve.
  
  Anyone right (whatever the hell that means) of centre is by definition “right wing”.
  
  The Big fat bit in the middle is were most people are: some a bit left, some a bit right and some centrist.
  
  But this maniac was extremely “out there” – way out there where the line meets the x-axis.
  
  1 in 10 million territory.
  
  Of course if the Overton Window gets shifted left, then more people will become “right wing” and people who are moderately right wing now will end up being very right wing.
  
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  March 20, 2019 1:03pm
  - James Stephenson
    
    It’s also worth bearing in mind that the bell curve when it comes this sort of thing is like a game of Asteroids (for those old enough to remember that).
    
    If you head off the screen on one side, you come back on the other.
    
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    March 20, 2019 2:35pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    It’s worse than that cmm. Anyone right of the extreme left is now right wing. Fail to belong to an endorsed group and the new “woke” will accuse anyone of being right-wing. Facisim, born on the left is now trotted out as right-wing because those who speak out against the left are not the recognised truth.
    The world has truly returned to the early 20th century for another go at the great communist experiment.
    
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    March 20, 2019 2:53pm
- brett68
  
  Is ‘right-wing’ something other than anti-socialist, anti-communist, pro-capitalist, pro-free speech, anti-SJW?
  
  It’s anyone who didn’t vote for Labour or the Greens.
  
  That’s the way the left operate, if you’re not totally with us we will try and destroy you.
  
  Very clever to put up someone like Ardern who’s supposed to be all about “love and kindness”, while shielded behind her, her supporters are attacking and trying to destroy anyone who doesn’t follow the left wing tenets of politics and life.
  
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  March 20, 2019 1:07pm
- krazykiwi
  
  This is directly from the neo-Marxist playbook. Tag any nutter/monster/etc as something-right, and anyone not obviously left-leaning is tarnished by association.
  
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  March 20, 2019 1:18pm
- Tall Man
  
  Bear in mind that the Democrats in the US are regarded as super left wing yet they would some distance to the right of ACT.
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:09pm
krazykiwi

This is topical, given the tragedy-leveraged removal of liberty that’s starting to snowball.

The Rise of Unfreedom in the West

It’s time to call it: Democracies across the West are at an inflection point on free speech, and it’s not clear which way things will go on this issue in the next 20 or 30 years.
:::
For decades now, the freedom to speak and argue—the most fundamental right of a free people—has been under assault by neo-Marxist advocates of a “more just society.” But it is only recently that their efforts have succeeded in shutting down an ever-widening range of venues of public debate: first in academia, then in the media, and of late in politics. Today the fundamental right to free speech is under threat not just from speech codes—that is, from proscriptions on what cannot be said—but also increasingly from prescriptive rules about what one must say, as though perfunctory condemnations of Western history were the price of admission to public debate.
:::
Yet the Soviet collapse also empowered neo-Marxists and fellow-progressives in the West to turn inward and focus on the “enemy within,” namely, that of the “system.” Without a tangible reminder of what efforts to re-engineer humanity had produced in Europe and elsewhere, it became possible for the ideologically committed to construct a narrative of what “true socialism” could have achieved if only the Stalinists and Maoists had not corrupted the collectivist dream.
:::
With freedom of speech under assault, the West, both as a polity and as a distinct cultural inheritance, is in the throes of a fundamental battle for the survival of its democratic traditions. It is time for all of us to stand up for liberty. And to do so out loud.

For the record, I’m totally ok with images of violent bloodshed being censored. What I’m not ok with is this isolated, heart-wrenching tragedy being used to justify widespread curtailment of civil liberties. When that curtailment reaches the sane environment that is Kiwiblog then the rot has well and truly set it.
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March 20, 2019 1:33pm
paulops

Why would a sick individual who has just killed and wounded innocent people while filming that act live allow two police officers to take him alive? The police commissioner said Saturday morning at a press conference that he heard the live feed from the arresting officers and that he was not willing to give himself up. Now the news media are saying he looks as though he will defend himself in court?? Wonder if we the public will hear what was said on that live feed
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March 20, 2019 1:48pm
- Tall Man
  
  I don’t care, I do not want to know, I want this individual incacerated permanently and let’s get back to living.
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:43pm
JibberJabber

A little light …er..relief,
http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20192020/HB/604?fbclid=IwAR2Gl5NlQ_KQzfSOw979p5RmDdiUDwIHnvFCW3l-X4mTh_8e6pZZav25HA0

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kUKld_1553033017

Seriously, this is not satire, not April 1st. WTF?
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March 20, 2019 2:12pm
- Tall Man
  
  WTF? But why for only 55 or older?
  
  The world is a funny place.
  
  4 0
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  March 20, 2019 2:41pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  https://youtu.be/bzVHjg3AqIQ
  
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  March 20, 2019 3:01pm
dime

ok peeps. im outta here.

if youre on twitter and youre not a shitbag (milky) follow me.

@dimenz76
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March 20, 2019 2:15pm
- waikatogirl
  
  By dime. Pop back sometime.
  ?
  
  8 0
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  March 20, 2019 3:07pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Was looking forward to the omg whose idea was it to become a parent lol.
    
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    March 20, 2019 5:05pm
Poppa

The way I see all of this is, people need time to digest what has happened & then life must go on as it has before. Sure there may be changes, which may or may not be great, but there is always change.

We need to adapt or crawl in a hole. I will not let the actions of one idiot ruin my life & will continue to do pretty much what I have always done. I have no guns & therefore any change will not impact on me but maybe I will encounter some inconvenience in some other way. I am not going to let that get in the way.

I actually think moderation rules are good provided they are applied in the right way & I will continue to read & comment as before. KB is a great forum to be involved with.

Don’t let the actions of one man destroy a very good blog
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March 20, 2019 2:35pm
- Tall Man
  
  That last sentence should apply to everything we normally do.
  
  Off overseas soon and I fully expect the NZ passport to generate more attention than previously.
  
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  March 20, 2019 2:38pm
  - aitkenmike
    
    Check.
    
    8 0
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    March 20, 2019 3:21pm
lofty

I for one ain’t leaving this blog, without harsh shoving from the owner.
I have been skulking around here pretty much since it’s inception, and have made comments, that I sincerely regret, and also those that I am proud to have made.
I am a strict believer in free speech, but agree that there is a line to be toed, as fragile as it is.
While we still have a modicum of the taste of free speech in this country, I will continue to comment as I see fit, within the rules of the blog owner.
I will stay with my nom de plume, because I know that should I make my identity freely known to the trolls that infest this site from time to time, I paint a target.
The powers that be have the ability to find out who any of us are, and I also know that they have done so in the past, but this is no reason to be afraid to question, comment and hold to account persons and ideas, that are seen to reduce our fragile freedoms any further, or those who’s views and actions I do not personally agree with.
I will not allow the murderous prick to change my life and views, nor will I let the social political manipulators win my soul.
Cheers
Lofty
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March 20, 2019 3:14pm
- Johnboy
  
  Well said lofty. It’s just such a bloody shame that the best blog in NZ has to pull it’s head in because it’s politcal masters are such running scared wankers.
  I’m talking to you Simon. Grow a pair mate! 🙂
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:03pm
Rich Prick

The deep chill begins.

So far as I can tell, the good doctor – and I’ve thought his comments have always been reasonably measured, but not always ones I might agree with – expressed opinions and did not breach any patient confidentiality. I think we should all be very afraid.
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March 20, 2019 3:58pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Another very good reason to keep my head below the parapet.
  A number of opportunities that are open to me at the moment would disappear in a flash.
  
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  March 21, 2019 7:30am
RW Capitalist

What we need to be careful of, not to over react.
The Sultan and the Mice.
The Sultan liked cheese very much; he had rooms full of cheese from all over. But the palace soon filled with mice that ate the Sultan´s cheese, and the councillors had to look for a solution: to get rid of the mice, they brought in cats; to get ride of the cats, dogs; to get rid of the dogs, lions; to get rid of the lions, elephants; to get rid of the elephants, mice…leading to no end!
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March 20, 2019 4:26pm
- waikatogirl
  
  RWC, I haven’t heard that for years. Sounds like decision making by the CoL. There are always consequences for decisions made…
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:51pm
Kabull

There is another world outside the tragedy in Christchurch. But it is being hidden from us. Apparently last week there was a conference of global leaders in Nairobi for the 4th UN Environment Assembly, which officially called for a new world order to transform the way we live. But I haven’t seen or heard a peep out of our media. If the summary given given here is correct, our world will be very different to that we have enjoyed until now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHrf0jnip0I

Full details of and papers from the conference can be found here:
http://web.unep.org/environmentassembly/documents/fourth-session-un-environment-assembly
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March 20, 2019 5:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Decided to display my full, real name so I am not in moderation. A few others should do the same. Let’s start with ztev, mikenmild, McCos, marquess to suggest a few
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March 20, 2019 5:41pm
skyblue

GDP out tomorrow. What will it be?
6 0
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March 20, 2019 5:47pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Delayed?
  
  4 0
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  March 20, 2019 8:39pm
- DigNap15
  
  Down again?
  Capitalism has failed – ooops sorry.
  I meant the COL has failed after only 15 long months
  
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  March 21, 2019 5:54am
Johnboy

Jeeze! The GB count looks a tad low for this time of the day!
What a fuckin surprise. 🙂
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March 20, 2019 6:06pm
Johnboy

Just to get things going. I have recently today talked to several owners of AR15 type weapons. All bought legally I might add. 🙂 They have to a person said that if the government proposes a buy-back like OZ they better be offering purchase price plus appreciation since they announced the possibility of such a scheme. Cut price shit will be laughed at. 🙂
If not the weapons will go underground and after a time be sold at a good profit. These folk were all utterly legal firearms owners that have never transgressed the firearms act but will do if this stupid government causes them too.
I hope all the fuckwits that sit in the Beehive are taking this grassroots advice on board before they carry on with the knee jerk stuff.
Jacinda better announce a tax hike first to pay for the buyback plan! 🙂
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March 20, 2019 6:24pm
- Swifty
  
  Yep, if her buyback numbers are too generous then we’ll get container loads shipped here for her to ‘buy-back’ and if her numbers are derisory then she’ll suffer at the polls…..
  
  It’s a tough one, other than the fact that’s it’s just taxpayer money so who cares.
  
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  March 20, 2019 8:05pm
rightoverlabour

Some questions.
1)Why have the video “sharers” been denied bail?
2) Why have people been fired for watching the video?
3) Why is it alright for Barry Soper to watch the video and talk about it on national radio?
4) Why have the bodies not been returned yet for burial?
5) Why is every one fawning over Saint Jacinda?
There have been a lot of knee jerk, badly thought out reactions to this terrible tragedy, including the retrospective classification of the video, call for firearms law changes, detaining of people for simply pressing enter on their keyboard, and over zealousness in gathering evidence and not returing bodies to grieving family. I don’t want in any way to diminish the enormity and tradgedy of the event. It was a disgusting, barbaric act of savagery. But this is where cool heads and decent leadership is required. In some instances, this has been lacking.
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March 20, 2019 6:53pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Tries to climb inside a lefty head…
  …Gosh it’s cramped in here!
  
  …I don’t know, but it could be that showing videos of “people of privilege” being killed (provided that they are male) is okay because they “had it coming to them.”
  However, maybe the showing of a “privileged” male doing harm to “victim-status” individuals is just plain wrong and could send the message that it is OK to routinely do this kind of things.
  
  … Crawls out and lies gasping for air for several minutes.
  
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  March 20, 2019 7:11pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    It seems as though you confused between Right and Left ?
    
    1 6
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    March 20, 2019 7:57pm
- Johnboy
  
  Kneejerk is what we do best here rol.
  Sensible and rational thought is not a New Zealand strongpoint! 🙂
  
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  March 20, 2019 7:21pm
Southern Raider

I see a doctor who commented on WhaleOil has been outed, complaint made to the doctors association and stood down from his job at a medical centre

It’s started
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March 20, 2019 7:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  If he has done something illegal or breached the terms of his employment contract or his professional obligations then he should face those consequences, shouldn’t he?
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:12pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    If. Has there been a trial? Sounds like there has been a sentence.
    
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    March 21, 2019 7:21pm
Brian McDonald

If it’s correct that there were at least 2 early signals on FB of Friday’s attack that in itself is reason for scrutiny as to online comments. The problem might be however that the ‘rules’ up until now may not have been strictly imposed. I’m not sure about the various people suddenly appearing in Court of charges of posts/videos they shared, but the chances are that some might have been simply doing something they thought was permissible whilst others may have taken an active or supportive part. In theory it should all be linked to the shootings but we don’t know that yet. Some of those appearing in Court might be ‘accidentally’ caught up in a big clamp down. It wouldn’t hurt to have it explained by police or the Minister. Maggie commented elsewhere about the fact she didn’t know how she felt about the gang expression around the tragedy. One gang leader has said that all might be about the ‘brown’ face or some such thing. It looks like there’s some pressure on but we don’t want the bus to take off without a driver. Here follows a link that suggests how temperamental things are.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111416309/masterton-woman-charged-over-facebook-post-about-christchurch-mosque-shootings?cid=facebook.post&fbclid=IwAR168h4sOHXSgLq25YMbijhSGCo9csPceOWzCAljLb1Hd6eF_Gtv_pLRPCc
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March 20, 2019 9:17pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Meanwhile, an American politician threatens to sue Twitter and specific individual Twitter users for mocking him.
  Internet reacts with predictable Streisand effect.
  https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Devin-Nunes-faces-long-odds-in-lawsuit-against-13701385.php
  
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  March 20, 2019 9:33pm
Scott Chris

Moderation? Probably a good idea.
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March 21, 2019 9:28pm

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Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Justice in Brazil
No Right Turn
The Presidential Bicameral Adjournment Clause Is Almost An American Equivalent to Prorogation
Utopia
"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
This Weeks Email To Prime Minister Luxon.
No Minister
Daily review 22/11/2024
The Standard
More young offenders will get boot camp, bus drivers will get some protection – and there’s relief for southern farmers
Point of Order
Sowell says
Hompaddock
New Zealand government urged to back ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders without equivocation
The Daily Blog
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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