General Debate 30 August 2018

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Fletch

First!
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August 30, 2018 9:31am
holysheet

One afternoon little Neve Te Aroha returned home from school, and announced that her friend had told her where babies come from. Amused, Cindy replied, “Really, sweetie, why don”t you tell me all about it?” The little girl explained, “Well… OK… the Mommy and Daddy take off all of their clothes, and the Daddy”s thingee sort of stands up, and then Mommy puts it in her mouth, and then it sort of explodes, and that”s how you get babies.” Cindy shook her head, leaned over to meet her, eye to eye and said, “Oh, darling, that”s sweet, but that’s not how you get babies. That’s how you get promotion in the Liabour pardy.
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August 30, 2018 9:33am
- Harkman
  
  You sure she didn’t reply with “absolutely” ?
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:46am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    It is considered rude to speak with something in ones mouth
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:49am
- Inandout
  
  It sounds eerily like you know something of her background.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:57am
  - igm
    
    What does Curran know of her background . . . seems she must have something Gnashers does not want brought into the open!
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:00am
    - andydownhere
      
      Well they were flatmates
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:37pm
      - igm
        
        Are you sure that was all they were?
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:08pm
  - holysheet
    
    How do you think she got those knashers?
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:29am
- DJ Ward
  
  I just told my 4 year old daughter about her Aunti being pregnant. She was clearly thinking about it by the look on her face. She responded with a puzzled look. “Where does the baby come out?”.
  
  I never new “go ask your mum” could be useful.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:18am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    At 4 “At Hospital” suffices…
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:26am
- harrygee
  
  Despite her appropriated name, it won’t be a culturally aware charter school that she returns home from. Self determination of your name and gender does not extend to self determination of educational opportunities, at least under mummy’s government.
  
  https://theconversation.com/planned-closures-of-charter-schools-in-new-zealand-prompt-debate-about-maori-self-determination-102192
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:21am
Dave Mann

I feel like a wolf and I’ve been feeling like this for quite some time, so I’ve decided to go for the full species reassignment operation. Dressing up as a wolf is no longer enough.

First will be a course of hair transplants and hormone injections to make my body all hairy, then facial reconstruction and elongation. All my teeth will have to come out and be replaced with wolfy sharp fangs. The tail is going to be a problem…. but my consultant is working on that.

The state and the media and everybody I meet is going to have to call me Wolf Mann and bark to greet me. Goodbye must be in the form of a long howl.

I’m going to get my passport and my birth certificate altered to show that I’m a wolf.

Next time we meet you must cower in fear of my majestic wolfiness, or you will be accused of being wolfaphobic.

And no I’m not mad…. I was just born in the wrong species, OK?

Wolf Mann
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August 30, 2018 9:34am
- Longknives
  
  He was looking for the place called Lee Ho Fook’s
  Gonna get a big dish of beef chow mein..
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:38am
  - Lance
    
    I saw a werewolf drinking a Pina Colada at Trader Dick’s….. and his hair was perfect
    
    (Best line ever in song writing history)
    
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    August 30, 2018 12:45pm
- Colville
  
  Just be careful.
  A few years ago a hunter shot a goat in a bunch of goats (I think in Canada). Turned out the goat he shot was a guy who identified as a goat and had been living with a group of goats dressed up as a goat.
  I shit you not.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:38am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    And the moral to be learned from that story is that ‘cross dressing may seriously injure your health’
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:51am
  - Inandout
    
    Did stephie once live amongst Canadian sharia goats?
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:00am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Honest, yer honour. That’s the truth….. it had nothing to do with the fact that he was screwing my wife. He was dressed up as a goat, so help me God!
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:11am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Clap for the wolfman
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:39am
  - AgainstTheFlow
    
    Isn’t clapping an exclusionary human-oriented thing, cause canines can’t clap?
    
    It’s almost specist…like racist but way newer.
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:53am
- SGA
  
  Lycanthropy has a long, somewhat unfortunate, history, Dave. I hope you don’t see this as a “silver bullet” for your problems.
  In the interim –
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhSc8qVMjKM
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:39am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Due to our strict biosecurity rules, you will have to be confined to quarantine for 6 months.
  As there is a danger you could breed with domestic dogs and produce wolf-dog hybrids, you will be released into a high security zoo after quarantine.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:42am
  - ldypen
    
    As the Wolf Mann is living in NZ which has the COL in charge he is already effectively living in a Zoo so no stress for the Wolf!
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:58am
- lifesgood
  
  And this bloody government will probably fund your nonsense 🙂
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:44am
  - AgainstTheFlow
    
    At least a funding grant to Otago University Public Health.
    Or Massey
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:54am
- VicParking
  
  Change into cat and move to Southland
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:49am
- Colinxy
  
  Don’t forget to apply for your co-leadership position in the Green Party.
  
  They’re currently missing the wolf gender, so you should bark up their tree for relief.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:42am
- Ed Snack
  
  That you Jack….?
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:50am
- Komata
  
  Is that you Jack; I thought you’d died…? (Sorry Ed, hadn’t seen your post before I wrote; ‘ Great minds..).
  
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  August 30, 2018 2:37pm
- fluffykiwi
  
  That is fine- the overseas travel will be difficult because you will have to travel in a cage exiting NZ, travel in the USA might mean you can be in the cabin, not sure.
  
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  August 30, 2018 3:15pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    He’d be able to travel in the cabin as a companion animal.
    
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    August 30, 2018 3:31pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  We already have ‘barking’, you will have to pick something else, probably trademarked or something.
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:43pm
artemisia

Taupo’s mayor is ropeable because ANZ is considering closing the Turangi branch. One important reason he says is that going to the bank is the only social interaction some people have.

Really?

So what is the mayor and community doing about that? Not much if anything it seems apart from moaning.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106662433/anz-may-close-its-turangi-bank-branch-drawing-criticism-from-taupo-mayor-david-trewavas
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August 30, 2018 9:35am
- simpleton1
  
  Good point artemisia
  These mayors are always grandstanding to gain votes! and it is a good lifestyle with income and to feel good.
  
  If there is a demand for banking services in Turangi, then it is up to the people in that area to push for these things.
  There is “senior citizens” or “grey power”, together with “business charters” and “Federated Farmers” and many other groupings like Rotary or Lions, Church groups, etc.. etc., that should work together, to get more information, and then workout what may prove more attractive for a bank or alternatives.
  
  Turangi will be a real hole of “non social interaction” if its own people have not got off their own butt, or the answer is that it is simply too small that it can not even support it is own cultural social interaction.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:06am
  - KevOB
    
    Problem: when most are doing their daily banking on line how do you justify branch banking? For a while banks had local shops. The Take Note bookshop in Tawa services KiwiBank and postal matters.
    
    Those who are not tech savvy are just going to have to get with it.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:48am
    - artemisia
      
      There is a Kiwibank in the Turangi Post Shop, so the article says. So people can still get their one and only social interaction there. It’s just green and not blue.
      
      Businesses are unhappy because they can’t top up till change at Kiwibank. Apparently. Doesn’t sound like too much of a problem for businesses if that is the only issue. But maybe the mayor could have a word about that with Kiwibank. Good publicity for them both. Better than just whinging, anyway.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:15pm
- tf78
  
  That’s interesting because ANZ are closing down branches on the Gold Coast as well – we have to blame John Key of course.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:09am
- VicParking
  
  Seems there is no Community centre in Turangi.
  Just a Turangi Service Centre Conference Room: Has a kitchen available for hire (does not include crockery or cutlery). For bookings and general enquiries please ring 07 386 7017 or go to the local Bank, hoodies, dark glasses and Burkas welcome.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:29am
Maggy Wassilieff

So the Labour Party hasn’t even let the vctims/complainants of the Summer Camp sex abuse see a copy of the report.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018660316/labour-summer-camp-assault-report-won-t-be-revealed
Hope all the facts within are accurate.
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August 30, 2018 9:37am
- Longknives
  
  It seems that Labour are desperately trying to protect someone here- Someone who clearly ordered this matter covered up.
  It won’t be Kirton- He has already been punished (by that I mean moved sideways into another perk job..)
  
  Hmmm- I wonder who Labour could be so desperate to protect?
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/jacinda-ardern-very-disturbed-allegations-sexual-misconduct-labour-party-youth-camp
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:42am
  - AgainstTheFlow
    
    A perk job with the Chairman of the PM’s Business Advisory Council.
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:56am
- cmm
  
  Transparency?
  
  These people really take the piss…
  
  Where’s the media? Oh, I forgot, all standing in line waiting for their bite of the $38 million.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:43am
- oldgolfer
  
  Shameful.
  If RNZ is right, it was never going to be released.
  The it’s-before-the-courts-can’t-comment bollocks is shameful manipulation.
  Bastards couldn’t lie straight in bed.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Jacinda won’t be able to offer “it’s before the courts” excuse, once the Court case is over.
    Wonder what new excuse she will come up with.
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:56am
    - Inandout
      
      The offender will be outed quite quickly on offshore sites; just a matter of waiting.
      
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      August 30, 2018 10:05am
    - oldgolfer
      
      Absolutely, and that question should be the first asked of Ardern, and was it Labour’s instruction that the report be written in such a way – i.e. only for the Labour executive.
      I bet a lazy 20 it was.
      
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      August 30, 2018 10:18am
    - tf78
      
      She will hope by then we have all forgotten, just like she thinks we’ve forgotten about Labour’s travel expenses. Where’s that up to – it must be over three weeks late now, Grant obviously doesn’t like the numbers.
      
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      August 30, 2018 10:27am
      - sooty
        
        The cost run 156 committees as well. Staff, accomadation, transport, food, etc.
        
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        August 30, 2018 12:49pm
      - Tricati
        
        They will hide the costs within the various Sate Entity accounts just like their recent borrowing – nothing to see here
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:06pm
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      “Wonder what new excuse she will come up with.”
      
      Subject to suppression order by the Court?
      A pound to a pinch of nanny goat poo the name will be permanently suppressed.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:20pm
      - fluffykiwi
        
        Can you be in contempt of court if you name them under parliamentary privilege?
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:18pm
    - fluffykiwi
      
      Their conversation is “ongoing”.
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:17pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    oldgolfer, sounded like the lawyer and senior Labour party officials cooked this up between themselves.
    The version of events I heard on RNZ was that they can’t even redact the report, and that the lawyer will have to rewrite it.
    
    The lawyer was commissioned to write the report only for the senior Labour brass.
    
    The irony is that one of the victims when spoken to by RNZ is complaining about a lack of transparency as not even they can see what is in the report. This after the victims had been consulted by the report’s author.
    
    The other excuse that doesn’t stack up is that the report can’t be released because somebody from My Roskill is facing charges. What has a criminal case got to do with a report about the Labour Party managing Young Labour? Unless events at the camp were worse than 1 man facing 6 charges?
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:01am
    - oldgolfer
      
      Touche.
      
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      August 30, 2018 12:16pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Is that why stripe is quiet today?
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:57pm
- Paulus
  
  As we understand the Labour sexual perp is pleading Not Guilty, then they all will be subpoenaed to appear, along with others there present, who will say they saw nothing so it could not have happened so move on as per instructions, and the threats that they will not be invited again.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:37am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Or go on the list.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:58pm
- VicParking
  
  I suppose until ◾️◾️◾️◾️◾️◾️ (redacted) is found guilty there are no victims only complainants.
  They will be petrified of giving a copy to anybody as it will be leaked by someone with mental health problems and they will never find out who did it.
  I feel sorry for the complainants who have gone out on a limb and will never see it their statements have been twisted to suit the Central Committee of the Communist Party of New Zealand AKA the Labour Party
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:38am
- KevOB
  
  A privately commissioned report is just that. It’s contents are private as a form of property. It’s contents may be significant and there are legal processes which might make them visible.
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:58am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Same will apply to Simon’s commissioned report on the leak.
    
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    August 31, 2018 12:00am
secondcumming

Good to see Peter Dutton preparing to ban that criminal ‘American Weirdo’ from setting foot on Ozzie soil.

Here’s a copy of the letter he sent…….

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlxAt3JUcAA0aju.jpg
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August 30, 2018 9:37am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The Nats are all for banning Manning coming to NZ.
  Hawkesby and the bloke who lives round at her place have fallen in with the Party Line provoking this response on Twitter from Tze Ming Mok
  
  ‘I try not to notice the witterings of the Hosk-Hawk troll symbiote, but just imagine either of them ever having the courage to expose war crimes from inside the military, let alone pay the price by being tortured in detention, god our columnists are embarrassing.’
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:05am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Hundreds of people have been denied entry to New Zealand for criminal offences that are far less serious than Manning’s. Given that it’s only just over 18 months since she was released from jail, I believe she does not meet our good character requirements, and obviously Australia sees things likewise.
    
    We have a Clean Slate law, and the period for a convicted offender keeping their nose clean is seven years. I think a similar period of exclusion should apply to someone whose offending was a serious as Manning’s.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:09am
    - namron
      
      Canada also refused her/him/it entry also.
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:47am
      - hullkiwi
        
        But it got a temporary via a to speak at an event in Ontario, and then promptly had to go home.
        
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        August 30, 2018 12:01pm
    - UpandComer
      
      You make a legitimate argument. One I disagree with very ardently however on the merits.
      
      But politically, Woodhouses sacrifice of unprecedented gifted cultural advantage by an unsolicited unnecessary statement was unfathomably stupid. It’s the dumbest thing National have done under the new leader. A total reverse barrelled grapeshot. He could have said nothing. Let the nice nice nice govt be the callous ones. Or the hypocrites. Discriminatory and partisan. The Anti free speech nanny staters. The mean black letter pedants. Now he’s won votes he already had at the expense of those he needed. He’s pleased the law and order vite fir the wavering urban centre left cultural swing. He’s now also inextricably linked Molyneux and Southerns deplatforming to Manning. It doesnt matter the substance. It matters the perception. Woodhouse is too thick to even cognisize his error. I wouldn’t want him in my party. And if he was acting on consensus National needs to get new political advisors.
      
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      August 30, 2018 12:56pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        And then the opposition would be accused of doing nothing, I am quite happy with how they are tracking.
        
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        August 31, 2018 12:04am
    - Local Miller
      
      Actually reading the Immigration NZ Website makes it abundantly clear that there is NO WAY he should be given a visa.
      “Applicants for all visas must be of good character, not pose a security risk and not threaten New Zealand’s international reputation.”
      
      The above quote is ‘and’ to all conditions, so if you fail any one, then you fail.
      
      “People with serious character issues can’t be granted any visa or entry permission, except in very special circumstances.”
      I would say a self promotion talking fest is not “very special circumstances”.
      
      “You can’t be granted a visa if you:
      have ever been convicted of an offence for which you were sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 5 years or more
      have been convicted in the last 10 years of an offence for which you were sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 12 months or longer”
      
      So, on the good character bases he should be denied a visa, subject closed. This has NOTHING to do with free speech.
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        Local Miller says of National’s call for a Manning ban:
        
        “This has NOTHING to do with free speech.”
        
        This has EVERYTHING to do with free speech. Have you been out of the country for a few months, Local Miller?
        
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        August 30, 2018 2:27pm
      - UpandComer
        
        When are conservatives going to learn that perception matters more then technicalities?
        
        No one in NZ is going to think this wasn’t to do with free speech.
        
        No one. At least no one who matters.
        
        Woodhouse has single handedly Holocausted a cultural centre National could have ridden to an election victory. People have taken big risks to defend free speech. And he comes out like a derp and denies it to someone to signal his boomer virtue.
        
        Woodhouse is a moron. He should be fired from the National party.
        
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        August 30, 2018 4:41pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The responses about this issue are depressingly similar to previous responses to other would-be visiting speakers: no principles involved – keep them out if I don’t like their ideas.
  So people who were all eager to hear Stefan Molyneux, for example, because ‘free speech’, don’t want to let Manning in because, reasons.
  
  For the reality-based community, however, the principle must be the same – there is no reason to support a ban on any visitor simply because one disagrees with that visitor’s ideas.
  
  There are automatic exclusions for some convicted criminals, or people excluded from other countires. These can be easily overriden, however. In Manning’s case, of course, there is no risk that she would commit a crime here, so exclusion would make no sense. Wasn’t there some question of exclusing one of those Canadian who had been refused entry somewhere else? Again overriden, becasue there is no reason to imagine speaking her would be a crime.
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:46am
  - hullkiwi
    
    mma, wrong.
    I have no problem with free speech. However, I have a problem if a person’s free speech gives a platform to somebody to profit from their crime.
    
    Manning committed treason, an illegal act, whether it was morally right or wrong neither you nor I can say.
    
    It is for this reason, less than 2 years after release and with no real evidence of contrition, I do not seen any reason to grant it a visa.
    
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    August 30, 2018 12:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      She committed no crime here. The automatic exclusion is just a hurdle to jump thorugh so that a visitor needs to show that their criminal history does not pose any kind of a threat while visiting here. You seem to be arguing for no exceptions, ever. Would that apply if a speaker you approved of, and wanted to hear, was refused a visa for simialr reasons?
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:59pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Do you really think Mike Tyson or Chris Brown were likely to commit crimes in NZ? If either of them had said they wanted to talk about politics while they were here, would the government then have to let them in or be hypocrites that hate free speech? I don’t think so.
    
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    August 30, 2018 12:26pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I don’t have a problem if either of those two were to visit. Clearly, many people did. My point is, though, that views on who should be allowed to visit seem to depend more on who the person is and what they are doing here than on any strcit legal criteria.
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:01pm
duggledog

Hate to point this out, but my predictions about rental regulations proposed by the Delusional Government are going to make things much, much worse for the average tenant long term:

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018660256/family-paying-520-a-week-for-third-world-swamp-house

Shit house in South Auckland, (naturally RNZ found the worst one, so as to enable Twyford & Davidson’s rhetoric).

It’s rented by a Maori girl who no doubt can’t find anything else (wonder why) off – wait for it – a guy called Raj who is clearly a recent immigrant.

Decent kiwis are going to get out of rentals and the properties are going to be bought (and already have been for a long time) by many more Raj’s who may not give a shit about poor Maoris
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August 30, 2018 9:37am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  This is another story that does not stack up, unusual for a story in the Auckland chip wrapper.
  
  In the audio I listened to, she claims to have paid $3,500.00 bond and rent. Assuming four weeks bond, being the maximum allowable to be charged, the bond is (4 x $520.00) $2,080.00
  
  Weeks rent at $520.00; what was the other $900.00 for?
  
  Detail detail smtail. The place looks pretty terrible, lawns need to be mowed for a start so what does that say about whoever is responsible, tenant or landlord, for that aspect of the tenancy.
  
  If this swamp story is half true, it casts the landlords that meet their obligations, responsibilities and commitment in the proper manner, in a poor light.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:56am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Here’s what doesn’t stack up: why we should need new laws when this house is already illegal:
    
    “Auckland Council has visited the property, and Max Wilde, its team manager for compliance response, said cross connections between storm and waste water, like the one at Ms Robbie’s house, were illegal.”
    
    No extra laws needed.
    
    The End
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:09pm
    - Piniwi
      
      Thanks CL this too illustrates a much bigger problem that Auckland have that results in turds floating the harbor. Such a wonderful feature of a city slipping down the livable city rankings so fast.
      It is only after this became “news” that “Auckland Council has visited the property” and whopdy-do they find cross connections? They have absolutely no idea how extensive this problem is since they are all too busy writing reports to cover their own incompetence.
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:35pm
- tas
  
  Yikes, what a dump. Yet I can’t help but wonder why the tenants accepted such a place.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:57am
  - tf78
    
    Hasn’t she been there for 3 years – it could have been pristine when she moved in, who knows.
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:30am
    - fluffykiwi
      
      Complaining now because she is probably about to be turfed out.
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:23pm
  - secondcumming
    
    First thing I noticed when watching the video, was that she didn’t even have a widow open! No wonder the joints so damp and moldy.
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:39am
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      Not so sure opening a window will help a lot with the pond under the house.
      
      3 1
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      August 30, 2018 1:34pm
- DJ Ward
  
  This is happening now.
  
  You proud as a landlord with this standard? With the ripoff rents?
  
  How can it get worse? Worse for the tenant or the Landlord?
  
  You also make an assumption. If landlords sell up, landlords will buy them. Can’t the first home buyer buy them, changing a renter into an owner. That’s the best outcome isn’t it.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:28am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    Nope. It is not the best outcome. Average rental has occupancy of something like 4 people. Average first home has average occupancy of two people. So when a rental gets brought by a first home buyer two people become homeless and looking to rent in a market reduced by one rental.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:18am
    - DJ Ward
      
      You dumdass. There average is 2 because it’s old and youngish couples without children and high income singles. Not families owning homes. The statistics are screwed.
      
      If families owned homes the average would rise. But they don’t. They can’t afford to get out of renting.
      
      It’s 2 people buying as they have chosen not to have kids. People with kids can’t afford to buy and must rent. So you support extinction of the human race by forcing everyone to be childless due to costs.
      
      If landlords didn’t force prices up families could buy, we would have a healthier, happier, wealthier society.
      
      Landlords are parasites that will use any false narrative to justify their greed.
      
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      August 30, 2018 12:00pm
      - freethinker
        
        Landlords are not thee prime movers of price they react to the real price movers – – rates/insurance/taxes/interest rates/regulations so in our low interest environment increased rents are primarily driven by Government, Councils Banks and Insurers so apportion the blame were it really belongs.
        
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        August 30, 2018 12:37pm
      - DJ Ward
        
        Sorry freethinker I pressed report rather than reply.
        
        Yes easy money by banks plays a big part. But why don’t new purchasers benifit, pricing landlords out of the market. Government reacts to protect the poor. Landlords increase rents to the max affordable by tenants. The government reacts by more rent (landlord) subsidy. Then profits increase so demand by landlords for more houses increases. Rents increase. A vicious cycle that has to end at some point.
        
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        August 30, 2018 2:00pm
- KevOB
  
  We have seen this all before.
  If you are an ideologue history and experience is irrelevant.
  Small minds and easy government.
  
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  August 30, 2018 12:02pm
slightlyrighty

I see that the Aussie Government is looking at banning Chelsea Manning from entering Australia due to the criminal convictions that arose as a result of her actions.

While this may be technically correct, it does set a precedent that their government should be very wary of.

However, should this come to pass, those who actively campaign against the freedom of speech for the likes of Molyneax, Southern and Don Brash may start to get an inkling of how it feels when those you agree with are deplatformed, and it would be the first instance I can recall of this happening to a Left Wing speaker.
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August 30, 2018 9:39am
- rangitoto
  
  I’m not sure why such power is granted to a single politician. The law set by parliament says no but they have an out where a minister has the power to override the law.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:47am
- Harkman
  
  RNZ had a piece on how Chelsea was a “hero” and should be welcomed here. The column used words like “she” and “her.” Time close down this bullshit network. Some people are sick in the head, Manning is sick in the head.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:50am
  - kowtow
    
    Gender dissomethingorother a growing fad.
    
    ‘An Ivy League college is embroiled in a row with trans activists over an article which suggested gender dysphoria was spreading among children.’
    
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/28/ivy-league-college-deletes-link-study-claimed-peer-groups-can/
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:54am
  - G152
    
    It is NOT a hero of any sort.
    It is a criminal who put many US operatives in danger and should be seen as a traitor considering it was in the military and under military discipline at the time of disclosure.
    Should have been court martialed and executed
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:51am
    - waikatosinger
      
      There was a court martial.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:01pm
- Ross12
  
  “While this may be technically correct, it does set a precedent that their government should be very wary of.”
  If their immigration law says no visa should be issued then good on them, applying the law as it should.
  Meanwhile we have a Green MP, who is a lawyer, quite happy to forget what NZ law may say and just let people in without going through the process just because someone has “done their time”
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:51am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Manning didn’t do her time. Her 35 year sentence was commuted by Barack Obama after she had served just seven years.
    
    Criminal offending comes with consequences. Manning was NOT pardoned by Obama, nor was her conviction erased. She is the author of her own misfortune, and whilst Ms Ghahraman might consider Manning a hero, I would suggest she is in a minority.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:12am
Tarquin North

Happy Birthday to me! Can I have a new government for my birthday? One that actually runs the country instead of having virtue signaling talkfests and discussion groups full lemons that are owed a favour? I Promise to be good!
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August 30, 2018 9:40am
- Longknives
  
  Happy Birthday Tarquin!
  Sorry but in Jacinda’s Socialist Aotearoa the only present you will be getting will be a Vegan cake with ‘Dear Leader’s’ beaming face on it (Enormous Marzipan teeth) and a copy of the Little Red Book.
  *Oh and instead of singing ‘Happy Birthday’ you and your family must listen to Jacinda’s ‘Comrades,Comrades’ speech on repeat…
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:47am
- stigie
  
  Granted.
  
  Cardinal stigie.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:48am
MrLovebucket

Good to see Trump smashing out yet more exceptional economic performance with growth of 4.2% for the last quarter:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2018/08/us-economy-grew-at-4-2-percent-in-second-quarter.html

Looking forward to seeing our Government publically congratulation the exceptional performance he is achieving with the largest economy in the world.
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August 30, 2018 9:45am
- Longknives
  
  Greatest President of my Lifetime!
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:51am
rangitoto

Even Soper wrote something positive about Trump re his South Africa land confiscation tweet.
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August 30, 2018 9:48am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  But will it appear on a Google Search?
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:51am
  - VicParking
    
    I notice if you type in ‘Trump News’ you get multiple results about how Trump is wrong about this topic and after that how he killed half of Puerto Rico and then that his lawyer has left him. (Most by CNN)
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:44am
  - G152
    
    Finally.
    it took Trump to point out the ability of Google to alter evidence to suit its leftist agenda by showing the search results for himself..
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:54am
    - Batman
      
      It doesn’t at all surprise me that aging white guy Trump, and many other aging white guys here and elsewhere, don’t know how Google works.
      
      It ranks search results based on authoritative sources, your location, and your search history.
      
      Given how much Trump probably searches “Trump CNN” to find material to tweet about, it’s not surprising that it gives him certain results.
      
      The fact of the matter is that no matter how much Trump et al might want it to be true, in the world of facts and data, Breitbart and other dodgy outlets just aren’t that authoritative!
      
      Unless of course he Googles “Trump Breitbart” and in that case he will get all the positive news he wants! ?
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:00pm
- Ross12
  
  Even the Russians are looking at how they may able help the farmers with relocation.
  Meanwhile “appeaser” May is in SA saying they are doing the right thing “if it is done legally” ( How can “confiscation” and “legally” appear in the same sentence?)
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:56am
  - Nermal
    
    Confiscation of Jewish property in Germany was legal too
    
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    August 30, 2018 1:47pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  You may be right but if you took out the self aggrandising photo of Soper with the shotgun sheriff of SA, would the article have appeared at all?
  
  I thought it was quite superficial, unusual for Soper; second thoughts,maybe not
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:11am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Good for Trump to stave off the current land grab.
  If the South African government is really serious about transferring farming land away from whites (and we’ll ignore the racism in such a policy), then a long-term transition plan needs to be put in place to avoid another Zimbabwe.
  The farming infrastructure must be maintained and improved, while a well-trained and far-sighted black-white-colored cadre of farmers need to be created who can oversee such a transition.
  
  Simply confiscating white farms to “look good” to the voters is incredibly short sighted.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:48am
kowtow

Some forms of racism is OK .

‘”I think the way people frame that is, ‘oh you’re Māori so you get this’, and it’s like, well, if I could trade off for the years of shit health, and the stuff my whanau have had to face, and all the shit that my ancestors have put up with then I would.’

“Ancestors”, it is interesting she’s condemning the Maori past of cannibalism , slavery , habitat destruction and constant warfare.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/campus/university-of-otago/maori-medical-students-it-was-just-blatant-racism
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August 30, 2018 9:50am
- Longknives
  
  “and the stuff my whanau have had to face, and all the shit that my ancestors have put up with then I would”
  
  The Self -Righteousness is strong in that Houia-Ashwell woman.
  My Great Grandfather got sent by the Brits to the fucking Somme when he was 16 years old.
  Can I please have some sympathy? maybe Otago will cut me some slack on my Varsity grades? (I’d love to be called ‘Doctor’..)
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:56am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Doctor Longknives has a certain edge for sure!
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:12am
    - Longknives
      
      It sounds like a Bond Villain Paulus!
      
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      August 30, 2018 10:37am
  - Jack5
    
    Longknives … “The Brits” wouldn’t have sent him.
    
    In Britain, conscription, introduced in January 1916, had a minimum age of 18. The British legal age limit for service overseas was 19.
    
    Your great grandfather must have fibbed about his age and volunteered, as one of my relatives did in NZ. He was riding and fighting in the Anzac mounted division in the Middle East when he was 17.
    
    Conscription applied in NZ from late 1916. Men aged from 20 to 45 were liable for conscription.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:42am
  - fluffykiwi
    
    Great Grandfather survived the Somme, he was one lucky person. Many didn’t.
    
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    August 30, 2018 3:28pm
- tas
  
  Lower entry requirements for Maori. If that’s not racism, then I don’t know what is. But you know, “unique lived experiences” and all that, so it’s OK.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:14am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    So we know to avoid Maori and P.I doctors then.
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:46am
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      Read Dr Thomas Sowell.
      He said that after positive discrimination began in the US medical system, even blacks declined to be treated by black doctors because they wanted to be confident they were getting treatment from someone who’d qualified on merit not quotas.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:42pm
    - fluffykiwi
      
      All you have to do is ask for a Doctor who had to have high grade pass marks. Now that isn’t racist is it.
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:29pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    It is discriminatory to allow Maori into medical school with lower grades; however, it is “legal discrimination.”
    (Let’s forget the moral hazard that such a practice encourages.)
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:50am
  - Batman
    
    The requirements are the same for all students, but the ranking is different.
    
    All Maori students who meet the requirements are granted entry. All other students are granted entry from the best grades and personality fit in ascending order.
    
    Not saying I agree with that, just providing an accurate account of the rules.
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:14pm
  - Komata
    
    Tas, you’ve noticed the discrepancy then, yet to suggest that by being given ‘more than equal’ / ‘preferential’ status, Maori are less mentally capable than other ethnic groups, is to invite accusations of ‘Racism’. Definitely a one way street, and no doubt the usual suspects will arrive in due course to confirm my statement…
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:57pm
AgainstTheFlow

Why do businesspeople have little very confidence in the Prime Minister?
Her call for travel insurance companies to pay out for uninsured people is an example why.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12115780
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August 30, 2018 9:50am
- cmm
  
  But feelz!
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:53am
- Longknives
  
  Who in their right mind Travels overseas without Insurance?
  Even when I was a young,fit bloke and thought I was bulletproof I still took out Travel Insurance..
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:01am
  - Stars And Stripes
    
    This lady did have travel insurance but got caught up in the “pre existing conditions” part of it which it seems she did not declare.
    Some possible reasons spring to mind:
    1.She forgot
    2.She did not read the policy properly
    3.She did not want to pay the extra premium for the declared condition
    4.She took a risk because she thought she would be alright
    
    Whatever the reason was, the insurance company has no liability and neither does the government as the situation is her own fault as she gambled and lost so tough really.
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:44am
    - Paulus
      
      Normally a Pre Condition additional premium is around $50 often irrespective of the different pre cons you tick.
      
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      August 30, 2018 10:47am
  - howitis
    
    When I travelled 10 years ago it was just over 6 months from a significant op following an accident.
    I read the terms clearly and it stated that if one had incurred a major operation ‘in the last six months’ then to declare it.
    The timing was that the form I was filling as part of a group policy had to be in two weeks before the travel date. The operation was within 6 months of the insurance submission deadline date but departure was days after the six month operation had passed.
    To be clear (godda slip that in) I phoned the insurance company and discussed. The rep was clear than the time of declaration was the six month point. The premium went from about $110 to about $150 for pre-existing.
    I paid it and they had it on record.
    We were diving on outer islands in the Pacific. You just don’t F… around with these things.
    
    For an overseas trip you are paying at least $2000 in travel and accom so if you can afford that you can afford proper insurance cover …then hope you never need it.
    Or don’t travel!
    I was Ok. Someone in the group got a wildcat bend- fortunately minor.
    Be honest.
    
    This woman was not honest.
    She cheated. She lied or omitted.
    There is a price to pay.
    Not by the taxpayer but by the liar/cheater, or the people who support her.
    
    After ten months the COL have actually made a correct decision.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:46am
    - Komata
      
      Howitis: FWIW: I was overseas when a long-dormant and ignored hernia decided to reassert itself. I had had the hernia for so long that I had forgotten about it, DESPITE HAVING TRAVEL INSURANCE! I simply hadn’t remembered it, and as a result, hadn’t declared it., an easy thing to do in such a situation. What to do, since it was very definitely a ‘Pre-existing’ condition’ and to say I had forgotten about it, although true, would have been straining the bounds of credibility to their limit. In the event, I did nothing, as the local medical costs would have been astronomical, and so made a slow and painful return to NZ. Suffice to say I was in the local public hospital 16 hours after my return, followed by six weeks off work. TWO hernias were eventually found!, It was a salutory reminder of the need to ‘declare’ such ‘afflictions’, and also to check with my family members in case other, similar, and also forgotten nasties might be lurking in the dark recesses of one’s mind. I got off lightly…
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:18pm
- kowtow
  
  Why ?
  
  Cos they unilaterally shut down a whole industry , oil and gas exploration.
  
  If they can do that to one industry then all industry must live in fear.
  
  ‘First they came for ‘……..and all that.
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:01am
- Paulus
  
  Insurance like you do not have to have in Christchurch as being uninsured, the Taxpayer will bail you out.
  
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  August 30, 2018 1:56pm
- VicParking
  
  The Government does it for the unInsured in CHCH
  Why not for this lady, come on Cindy I have plenty of cash to give the COL. Another tax please……..sic
  
  2 1
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  August 30, 2018 2:39pm
Harkman

What’s a Tamaki-ma-cow-row? I heard it on the weather last night.

The guy also said Fun-ga-nui, what’s a Fun-ga-nui?

Also, what’s an Oh-two-Tahi?

I need to learn how to be a sensitive new age guy.
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August 30, 2018 9:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The hubby goes ballistic..
  I translate for him.
  Imagine what it must be like for some traveller who just wants to know whether it will be raining/fine in Auckland or Christchurch.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:02am
  - dave_c_
    
    Also to mention the number of times the newsreaders and presenters use the term ‘here in ow-teeaah-rower’, without the actual name of this country ! it used to be ‘ow-teeaah-rower new zealand’. Slowly but surely, insidiously, we are transitioning for a name change – I predict by xmas, there may be an anouncement introducing this liklehood
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:14am
  - simpleton1
    
    All maps issued to travelers will have all the new correct names.
    Google will be adjusted, so no more Auckland, or Hamilton etc.
    Wikipedia also.
    Education of the young will have only the appropriate approved names.
    
    Do not worry about the pale stale male, as why should they know
    about the “he ua, he marama ranei” where ever. 🙂
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:02am
  - fluffykiwi
    
    Imagine and when the “Rs” are rolled as per southland there will be another level of understanding required.
    when Maori pronounce English correctly – when Maori through NZ pronounce Maori words the same way etc., etc., then I might buy into the argument.
    
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    August 30, 2018 3:35pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Is “Tamaki-ma-cow-row” next to the “Hoe-laki Gulf”?
  
  At least the announcers on Radio Hoe-laki say it that way…
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:01am
  - Jack5
    
    Yep, the media has steamed full on into NZ Pidgin.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:19am
  - dave_c_
    
    and ‘Gisbin’
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:53am
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      Not nearly as annoying as ‘Gus-born’
      
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      August 30, 2018 9:39pm
- VicParking
  
  Fun-ga-nui is pronounced Whak’d a Nui.
  Capital of NZ’s latest sport MM 1 BP 0 or is it the other way round. Not up with the scoring method yet
  
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  August 30, 2018 2:43pm
VicParking

I see the Democratic politicians are blaming Trump for all the deaths is Puerto Rico in the last year and CNN has also taken up the war cry. He has even been blamed for all the vehicle accidents.
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August 30, 2018 9:57am
- Harkman
  
  I see CNN still hasn’t retracted the bogus, Cohen knew about the Trump Tower meeting story. Nor has One News pointed out the Cohen story was bogus.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:00am
  - stephieboy
    
    Harkman, why should they when Cohen keeps changing his account of the alledged meeting ?
    
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-cohens-attorney-lanny-davis-backtracks-on-claim-regarding-trump-tower-meeting/
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:11am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Cohen hasn’t backtracked. He’s still maintaining what he said in his testimony to Congress
      That Trump didn’t know about the meeting.
      It’s his LAWYER who has backtracked on his comments and your link confirms that.
      You really are thick aye.
      
      Hey I hear Bruce Ohr sang like a canary in his testimony yesterday.
      
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      August 30, 2018 10:22am
      - Paulus
        
        What de F..k has this to do with Russian election interference.
        Sweet F A.
        Why do they not look at Clinton in this matter – horrible I know but.
        
        12 0
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        August 30, 2018 10:50am
    - Fletch
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uUiq4ec7zM
      
      5 0
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      August 30, 2018 10:23am
      - Fletch
        
        https://youtu.be/jq0R1Domm10?t=16m3s
        
        3 0
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        August 30, 2018 10:43am
    - rangitoto
      
      The only real question is how long a stretch Hillary and her cronies should be serving.
      
      17 2
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      August 30, 2018 10:49am
      - Batman
        
        Given there’s no evidence that the Clinton campaign conspired with anyone or committed any crimes, I’d be interested to know why you support extra-judicial prison sentences for political opponents?
        
        Surely you’re not a Maduro or Putin fan?
        
        2 6
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        August 30, 2018 2:28pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
        Where does one start….
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:47pm
    - VicParking
      
      Stephie you read so down in the dumps, read this
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/45343152
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:45pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The thread “Full and edited versions” needs to be immortalised as well as permanently archived . The reason being is that almost single handedly Scott Hamilton was able to completely destroy and flay Stephen Molyneux ’s fatuous arguments in respect of his “race”science . Central to his claim is the idea that there are genetic differences and variabilities based on intelligence between Whites and Blacks in favour of the former.

This fact is beyond dispute even though Moyneux’s apologists on KB tried to deny that he stated that.

Rubbish!!

Hands up those Honkeys who are still deluded enough to believe their brain architecture is superior to an African ’s , Maori or say a Melanesian. As well as the marker genes that contribute to that variability with their “ superior “ intelligence?

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/08/full_vs_edited_versions.html
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August 30, 2018 10:02am
- Inandout
  
  Goatherd!
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:11am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Inandout , inform us about your Brain Architecture and why it is superior to a “Murri’s “or Melanesian’s?
    
    LOL
    
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    August 30, 2018 10:15am
    - cmm
      
      stephie: You make all these comments about Molyneux, but:
      * Have you ever listened to any of his hundreds of hours of podcasts? Or are you just cherry-picking one sentence out of context?
      * Have you ever listed to him talking to black people? He has many highly respectful conversations with black people.
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:09am
    - skyblue
      
      Quite simple really, us white man introduced the concept of the wheel to the Maori.
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:12am
      - Inandout
        
        And written language, WINZ, KFC.
        
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        August 30, 2018 11:55am
      - VicParking
        
        Beer, DPB, 50% + of most of your blood
        
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        August 30, 2018 2:48pm
      - Komata
        
        And steel, pigs, guns, etc. etc. etc…
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:24pm
- cmm
  
  ” in favour of the former” Nope one is not better than the other. Each are adapted to different situations.
  
  ” their brain architecture is superior to an African ’s” The architecture is the same – no dispute, but the development can be different.
  
  Your muscle architecture is the same as that of a Kenyan, yet, on average, the Kenyan is far more suited to long distance running.
  
  It certainly isn’t down to genes only. You need to consider the environmental factors too. The biggest environmental factor is culture.
  
  Many cultures are very poor for developing mental abilities required to perform well in a modern society. That is especially true of language. If your language lacks abstract ideas and symbols (words) to express them, then it is not surprising if those people don’t develop the same mental processing skills.
  
  For example, the Zulu and Xhosa languages are very sparse when it comes to many prepositions. In Zulu you cannot say something like: “Inside the box there is book between two stones”.
  
  Zulu and Xhosa lacks the word for “number” (teachers of arithmetic had to introduce the word “nomolo” which is taken from Dutch “nommer”). Likewise there is no real word for 100. They use nkulu (which means “big”, which makes me suspect it was introduced by Westerners teaching Zulus).
  
  Any wonder that the pass level for maths has been reduced to 20% in South Africa?
  
  And logic, well that’s something else entirely! I was once accused of being a “tagati” (evil wizard) for making a rational argument and changing a woaman’s mind on something. She said I used magic to manipulate her thinking.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:23am
  - stephieboy
    
    ccm , you just busy yourself identifying your intelligence marker genes that differentiate them from a Bantu or Xosha etc ?
    
    BTW there are thousand of them dispersed throughout the brain. None missing from African or Murri brains etc !
    
    Or your brain.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:14am
    - Harkman
      
      You’re obsessed with race. Why not discuss the sluggish growth due to the CoL’s policies or the collapse of investment confidence. Oh I know why….
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:26am
    - cmm
      
      What is this nonsense about marker genes? What do they have to do with anything?
      
      BTW: “Bantu or Xosha” makes no sense. All Xhosa are Bantu. Bantu is a grouping that includes Xhosa, Zulu and some others. It is the Bantu word for “people”.
      
      IMHO: How intelligent you are matters less than how well you use what you have (which is a cultural issue). Some cultures (including Zulu/Xhosa) cultures are terrible at developing peoples’ cognitive abilities and much of that stems from having a culture that is based on witchcraft and magic rather than reason and understanding.
      
      For example, many years ago I was chatting with some Zulu teens about how school was going. Not well – most of them were failing or just scraping a pass. I asked them why. They said the examiner had stronger magic than them. Nothing to do with studying or whatever – it all just came down to the examiner having more powerful magic and thus beating them in the exam. They would try pass next year by seeing a sangoma (witchdoctor) and getting a stronger muti (medicine/spell).
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:35am
      - SGA
        
        Some cultures (including Zulu/Xhosa) cultures are terrible at developing peoples’ cognitive abilities and much of that stems from having a culture that is based on witchcraft and magic rather than reason and understanding.
        
        Homeopaths are they? 🙂 🙂 🙂
        
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        August 30, 2018 11:38am
  - SGA
    
    For example, the Zulu and Xhosa languages are very sparse when it comes to many prepositions
    
    I remember wondering how the Romans coped when I did high school latin – for example, the ablative case could mean by, with, from, in, or on. I always found this hard going when trying to translate from Latin into English, but the Romans seemed to cope. 🙂
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:24am
    - Ed Snack
      
      In Latin and Roman (and Greek) language and culture they had a reasonable fluency with numbers, but not a good formalized way of expressing that. So Graeco-Roman mathematical theories were restricted. They were good at geometric issues because they could express and work with these readily, but numbers were less amenable to manipulation using their method of expressing and recording numbers.
      
      There is a language from somewhere, I’d have to check my sources but I think it is from an Amazonian tribe, where it was said they have the numbers 1, 2, and many. Seems a bit unlikely (usually languages recognize up to 10 at least, the fingers being an obvious way to identify such concepts), but I’ve no doubt if true it was quite OK in their environment (they survived after all) but a problem in a more complex society.
      
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      August 30, 2018 12:52pm
- holysheet
  
  I’ll put my hand up to that, stooopidboy. If its okay to be maori if youse feelz like one, then it’s okay for me to be superior, because I fucking am, okay?
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:26am
- JIV
  
  Doesnt he also state that Asians consistently score highest with IQ tests?
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:28am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Yes, what ever is measured in these “IQ” tests, results would indicate that some asians (specifically those from China {Han Chinese that is}, Japan, and Korea typically score above generic “Europeans”.
    
    So as a booster for “White Supremacy” this whole area must be a complete bust. If you want to believe that superior test results make you a superior person, then as a “Whitey”, welcome to second place.
    
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    August 30, 2018 12:56pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Stephieboy:
  
  Hands up those Honkeys who are still deluded enough to believe their brain architecture is superior to an African ’s , Maori or say a Melanesian.
  
  As Kiwiblog’s dumbest commenter, by popular consensus, you’re probably not qualified to ask that question!
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:30am
- Longknives
  
  “Hands up those Honkeys ”
  
  Stay Classy Stephieboy….
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:30am
- DJ Ward
  
  Don’t agree Stephieboy about Scotts success. I read what Scott said. He was talking rubbish. His point of view was ignorant about science, biological differences, clung to a false narrative, misrepresented what species and race are. Etc Etc.
  
  You believe fake news?
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:38am
- rangitoto
  
  Scott was peddling total nonsense. It’s obvious his knowledge of biology and genetics is essential zero.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:54am
- UpandComer
  
  Im taking a hiatus. Scott Hamilton is laughably wrong. His argument was the standard stupid argument that species differentiation is impossible intra humans due to genetic commonality.
  
  Well, humans share 95% of the same DNA as chimpanzees. Wow, they’re so much like us! Chimp/human differentiation is pure discrimination! Call the Anti Defamation League!
  
  What matters are genetic differences at the margin. Scott’s central logic that genetic comminalities preclude speciation was debunked a very long time ago. It’s really stupid isn’t it, when you think about the scale of inter species genetic duplications. They’re still inter species.
  
  You have to dig extremely deep to find the science on this theme but it exists. As with every field, pre world war 2 and 1 is the only place you find scientody as opposed to scientism. Qs last drop on comparing history pre world war 1 and 2 yields intetesting findings.
  
  Further, it would not follow that there are no intelligence differences between distinct human geographical groupings even if it were proven no genetic speciation distinctions existed (which is not proven).
  
  Intelligence science is the most validated and replicated field in social science. Scott and Gormless Gower are arguing there are no intelligence differences between groups, and any data or phenomena which ‘looks like’ an intelligence gap, but isn’t, is purely environmental and has no genetic formation.
  
  That’s risible and ludicrous. Even uber Liberal James Flynn from our very own lucky country at Otago University doesn’t say that. He is an honest and ethical scientist so he admits genetic differences but simply states that cultural influences are more salient. His strongest arguments are based on twin studies comparing black IQ outcomes as between post war Germany (the progeny of US Black or mulatto GIs) and the United States. I prefer Richard Haier but Flynn makes the best humanist arguments. I actually was taught by Mr Flynn and have all his books. I have ‘intelligence’ open in front of me right now. He is as honest a Liberal as you will ever find. He says you’re wrong. The average IQ in Haiti i believe is 67. That’s almost a full standard deviation below Koko the Gorilla, as Chris Langan the man with the highest recorded IQ in the world (190-210) observed on Quora, before he was banned for being ‘racist’ and being a Christian.
  
  The next few decades of disgenics and discivics arising from third world immigration are going to be fun. Particularly as liberal scientists engage in all manner of ludicrous scientisms to explain falling average IQs and general collapse without differentiating between groups.
  
  Like Flynn, i have no problem admitting African Americans on average are better at basketball and sprinting then me. As the hate white male propaganda keeps gathering momentum all other groups better get used to similar disparities in intelligence receiving more and more prominence.
  
  https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2018/08/29/bad-medicine-ii-the-escalating-problem-of-third-world-doctors/
  
  Third world doctors in the UK has led to an explosion in abuses, malpractice, criminality and incompetence. The same pattern can and will be observed in every field.
  
  “In March it was reported that “1 in 6 doctors convicted of sex offences are still able to practice medicine,” and last year it emerged that more than 1,000 doctors in the U.K. have criminal convictions for offences including possession of child pornography, cruelty to children, soliciting prostitution, and the theft of drugs. The proliferation of criminal elements and foreign ethnic physicians in the British health service has led to a situation where recourse is no longer required to the records of the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service. There are almost daily headlines involving malpractice and sexual abuse among foreign doctors, though these pieces are always straining to treat the case on an individual basis. The aim of the following is to collate some of the most pertinent cases from the last 11 months in order to demonstrate a horrific pattern that is getting worse, not only in Britain but throughout the West. As White populations age and we divert more and more money away from training our own youth, we will become more and more reliant on immigrant doctors with low aptitude, poor training, and brutal sensibilities. This is a terrifying prospect”.
  
  Yes it is. Even Flynn I suspect knows in his heart of hearts that the reversal of his observed IQ gains in Ravens proficiency particularly in the West since mass immigration isn’t ‘random’. Just like the massive multipler effect homosexuality has on pederasty, this grand decrease in IQ can’t be made politically correct.
  
  So no, you’re wrong. Scott is wrong. Back to hiatus.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:55am
  - stephieboy
    
    Scott is right. As I asked cmm please identify your marker genes for intelligence .
    
    Bet you can’t and there is no evidence that Africans or Maoris don’t have the same genetic material that determisne intelligence.
    
    Show other wise?
    
    A second plank of the race science case goes like this: human bodies continued to evolve, at least until recently – with different groups developing different skin colours, predispositions to certain diseases, and things such as lactose tolerance. So why wouldn’t human brains continue evolving, too?
    
    The problem here is that race scientists are not comparing like with like. Most of these physical changes involve single gene mutations, which can spread throughout a population in a relatively short span of evolutionary time. By contrast, intelligence – even the rather specific version measured by IQ – involves a network of potentially thousands of genes, which probably takes at least 100 millennia to evolve appreciably.
    
    Given that so many genes, operating in different parts of the brain, contribute in some way to intelligence, it is hardly surprising that there is scant evidence of cognitive advance, at least over the last 100,000 years. The American palaeoanthropologist Ian Tattersall, widely acknowledged as one of the world’s leading experts on Cro-Magnons, has said that long before humans left Africa for Asia and Europe, they had already reached the end of the evolutionary line in terms of brain power. “We don’t have the right conditions for any meaningful biological evolution of the species,” he told an interviewer in 2000.
    
    In fact, when it comes to potential differences in intelligence between groups, one of the remarkable dimensions of the human genome is how little genetic variation there is. DNA research conducted in 1987 suggested a common, African ancestor for all humans alive today: “mitochondrial Eve”, who lived around 200,000 years ago. Because of this relatively recent (in evolutionary terms) common ancestry, human beings share a remarkably high proportion of their genes compared to other mammals. The single subspecies of chimpanzee that lives in central Africa, for example, has significantly more genetic variation than does the entire human race.
    
    No one has successfully isolated any genes “for” intelligence at all, and claims in this direction have turned to dust when subjected to peer review. As the Edinburgh University cognitive ageing specialist Prof Ian Deary put it, “It is difficult to name even one gene that is reliably associated with normal intelligence in young, healthy adults.” Intelligence doesn’t come neatly packaged and labelled on any single strand of DNA…”
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/02/the-unwelcome-revival-of-race-science
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:18am
    - UpandComer
      
      And yet the intelligence gap observed by William Murray and every single other scientist on intelligence since the field was established exists. I don’t have to identify marker genes for intelligence. I juat have to point to nearly a century of replicated average IQ gap, and g studies.
      
      You don’t understand. It’s not permissable in 2018 to argue no racially modulated intelligence gap exists. It does exist. It has always existed since it could be measured. The way the debate works is you observe the gap that exists because it exists, then explain it by recourse to the environment. Anyone who tries to argue there is no gap at all is a charlatan. It’s that simple. The gap exists. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and a charlatan.
      
      As for Africa Eve that’s wrong. The progenitor didn’t come out of Africa. The progenitor came out of Europe or Asia, and given Pangaea if it makes you ‘feel’ better, strictly speaking the progenitor must have come from a single land mass if you assume evolution is correct. Which it isn’t. As I’ve explained previously with reference to MtDNA cellular aging records. The phylo genetic tree is wrong. But the scientism is still catching up with reality. I love this. Genetic determinism can’t exist for intelligence but it must exist and does exist for homosexuality and all the other deviancies. I didn’t know you were a homophobe.
      
      Lol an anthropologist isn’t a scientist. They have less scientific standing then a physio. Tell me more about what anthropologists have to say about genetics so i can ignore it and ask my physio instead.
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:38am
      - UpandComer
        
        You also just repeat Scott’s stupid genetic commonality argument. Wow yes the Guardian is right. We’re the same species as Chimpanzees. Look at the genetic commonality! You’re either a moron or completely dishonest. No serious person can argue no difference in IQ exists between distinct human categories. It doesn’t matter if you try and argue the existence or nature of the category (i.e. there is no such thing as race) the difference exists. How dare you insult truth so badly. Fuck off.
        
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        August 30, 2018 11:48am
      - SGA
        
        We’re the same species as Chimpanzees. Look at the genetic commonality!
        
        For heavens sake, humans have 23 chromosome pairs and the other Great Apes have 24. This constitutes are rather major genetic difference.
        
        If you knew this already, I can’t see why you would be making such a silly comparison.
        
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        August 30, 2018 11:58am
      - UpandComer
        
        It still demonstrates the logic SGA. Genetic commonality even to a high degree doesn’t preclude speciation. It doesn’t mean an absolute fart if im 99.999999% genetically identical to a mud cookie eating Haitian. That final element of genetic difference if of that magnitude suffices. Genetics and epigenetics matter at the margin. I can shit my pants and tizzy as much as i like. Im never going to be Dwight Howard or Le Bron James in terms of athleticism even if Im 99.99999999% genetically identical. I note that this particular group difference is kosher no?
        
        And as i hope I’ve demonstrated, the IQ gap doesn’t depend on speciation. It depends on itself existing. The gap exists you idiots. Saying ‘B, but we’re all one human race s, see! So the gap that exists is just a gap in ourselves!’.
        
        No. The gap exists. No serious person can or would argue otherwise. The task is to explain it. Environmental factors are exhausted. Political correctness is killing the west. It must be genetic. Fuck off. It doesn’t matter how much Mozart you play or ECE from Marilyn.Vos Savant you give to a Haitian in Utero. On average Koko the Gorilla will beat that individual in a game of scrabble.
        
        It doesn’t mean that person has any less value in the eyes if God. But don’t insult truth by pretending otherwise and don’t you dare endanger my family by your bullshit delusions.
        
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        August 30, 2018 12:19pm
      - SGA
        
        UpandComer
        
        It still demonstrates the logic SGA. Genetic commonality even to a high degree doesn’t preclude speciation.
        
        All mammals are high degree of common DNA – that’s what makes them mammals. Having 23 chromosome pairs (human) rather than 24 (chimpanzees) makes them separate species. Furthermore, and as a crude general rule of thumb, separate species cannot reproduce with fertile offspring. Within all species there is genetic variability. Typically the genetic variability within populations of a respectable size is larger than the genetic variability between such populations. I cannot take your argument that there a separate species of humans seriously.
        
        The gap exists you idiots. … The gap exists. No serious person can or would argue otherwise.
        
        Something of a strawman – I’ve never heard anyone argue that there are no gaps in average performance on things like IQ tests between some groups. The debate centres around the relative contribution that factors such as culture, upbringing, diet and nutrition, and biological factors (such as genetics and epigenetics) have on individual’s performance on things like IQ tests. Then how those factors might translate to average differences we see between groups.
        
        That’s how I see it, at least.
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:02pm
      - UpandComer
        
        SGA.
        
        No, you’re shifting your postion and admitting a racially modulated IQ gap exists in the face of an admittedly furious assailment. Most people can’t even get that far.
        
        If you think everyone admits the gap, just mosey along to Newshub and ask Patrick Gower or any the reporters, or ask a special diverse person, even a highly educated one. Or even look at any scientific journal paid for by Liberals. The entire field of evolutionary psychology has been largely wiped from the face of the earth because of the feelings of those who say food and dancing are the most precious things in the world.
        
        You have a more nuanced understanding then most. My rhetoric isn’t aimed at you. Most people stand on the genetic commonality precluding race argument.
        
        Yes chimps have a different number of chromosomes. They are properly a different species.
        
        But you’re just fixating at a high point on a hierarchy of difference. Species include sub species, which is why i hold to my statement. It is feasible for different sub species to have almost duplicate commonality. Sub species can mate. The argument that is advancing in Chima is that different racial groupings may constitute different sub species. Thats supported by a range of factors i won’t delve into since im meant to be on hiatus.
        
        But if that’s too far up move down again. As i said before it doesn’t matter how you categorise the entities related to the gap. A distinction exists sufficient to differentiate racial intelligence on average, and it’s predominately genetic.
        
        As for environment – as i said. Environment is exhausted. When you can disequalise environment, as Richard Lynn and Haier and others have shown time and again, the IQ of twins remains the same over time. Namely, if you take a kid on Haiti growing up eating Mud cookies, then place the identical twin kid in the Kennedy family with the most ‘perfect’ possible wealthy liberal environment (assuming no Kennedy degeneracy), the IQs are the same in adulthood.
        
        Further, generational IQ shows a regression to the mean. The grand children of the brilliant immigrants from Mexico and India and Venezuela etc in America revert to their national IQ, not that of their parents. Thats why Alexandria Ocacia Cortez is stupider then her hard working capitalist parents who succeeded in America.
        
        So mixed couples helps everyone except the western or East Asian component of it. Why do you think the Jews now have racial purity laws in Israel? To protect their nation.
        
        Ah yes. The biggest enemies of free speech in the universe except their own.
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:39pm
      - SGA
        
        No, you’re shifting your postion and admitting a racially modulated IQ gap exists in the face of an admittedly furious assailment. Most people can’t even get that far.
        
        Nonsense – show me where I have said that IQ testing doesn’t show differences between groups – not only between “races” but even between generations of the same “race”.
        
        My objections are more towards the sweeping dismals you make of evidence that doesn’t suit your genetic approach. Environmental is exhausted? We don’t really know exactly what caused the increase in IQ over the last century within populations and why seems to have abated.
        
        Yes chimps have a different number of chromosomes. They are properly a different species.
        
        And gorillas and chimps have the same, but they are separate species too.
        
        The argument that is advancing in Chima is that different racial groupings may constitute different sub species
        
        Typo – China, I assume? What racial groupings? Human genetics don’t neatly overlay the classic categories. As I said earlier, someone from West Africa and someone from East Africa may be more genetically similar to someone in Norway than to each other. That’s not a characteristic of subspecies as far as I am aware, is it?
        
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        August 30, 2018 2:00pm
      - UpandComer
        
        Yeah sorry for the typo I’m phone posting at a rate of knots.
        
        Come on man. We can’t possibly know why rapes are up so much in Europe either. Spare me the official data they don’t actually collect out of racial sensitivity.
        
        I can tell Sweden is going hard right because an official TV channel just released its own investigation baswd on leaked data showing up to 85% of rapes are by non swedish migrants since the first influx. Its in swedish. If you want evidence observe the upcomomg election results, assuming no fraud.
        
        You can’t be serious. You have a new variable which is the most salient one possible and you deny it’s very relevance let alone causative effect. This is why I have adopted Theodore Beales’ distinction between scientody, the scientific method, and scientism – its political and ethical adulterated manifestation. So we had the Flynn effect, then we had ‘total progressivism’ in alliance with mass third worls immigration into pristine welfare states like Sweden. Boom Flynn effect in hard reverse. But until we can carry out mass studies people like you will never allow, we can’t draw any relationship. Lol.
        
        Why do you kewp repeating an argument that supports my point about East and West Africans as a coup de grace?
        
        Group differences reside in the margin. It doesn’t matter if one set of Africans were more genetically similar to a Nord then other Africans. There is a genetic element which creates an intelligence differenriation of at least a full sd on average that separates the two at the margin. Sub species can be practically identical and still be sub species. Additionally the MtDNA ecperiment i referred to undermines evolution by disproving genetic drift in the first place. It is no longer a prerequisite to speciation for there to be any differences whatsoever in genetic diversity inter species. Indeed for millions there isnt. Don’t tey and pin me with out.oded atheist fedora scientism.
        
        And what are you talking about. We do know. Nutrition is one component. Basic subsistence another. Medicinal advancements another. ECE anothdr albeit very minor. Parental speech and intetaction another. Flynn does a bloidy list with weightings. Flynn himself says the simple necessity for abstract thinking. Indeed that’s why IQ differentials are so apparent now. As he said, a modern industrial economy forms the material basis for a human architecture suited for abstract thought. It compels it. That evolutionary pressure howver cannot correct impassable genetic barriers.
        
        Now that I’ve wrecked your arguments some more could you please concede? Or are you going to give me more progressive scientism Lit 101
        
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        August 30, 2018 2:40pm
      - SGA
        
        You have a new variable which is the most salient one possible and you deny it’s very relevance let alone causative effect.
        
        New? Whatever makes you think so? It is one of the oldest, isn’t it? The aristocracies were always better “bred”, weren’t they? The conquerered inherently inferior?
        
        Why do you kewp repeating an argument that supports my point about East and West Africans as a coup de grace?
        
        Coup de grace, not meant that way? I genuinely can’t see how it fits with some of your scientific reasoning, and so far you seem unable to answer.
        
        It doesn’t matter if one set of Africans were more genetically similar to a Nord then other Africans.
        
        Acutally, if you are claiming “sub-species” along racial lines, it matters a lot. Members of the same sub-species should be far more genetically similar than members of other sub-species. Not so? Not scientific?
        
        There is a genetic element which creates an intelligence differenriation of at least a full sd on average that separates the two at the margin. Sub species can be practically identical and still be sub species. Additionally the MtDNA ecperiment i referred to undermines evolution by disproving genetic drift in the first place. It is no longer a prerequisite to speciation for there to be any differences whatsoever in genetic diversity inter species. Indeed for millions there isnt. Don’t tey and pin me with out.oded atheist fedora scientism.
        
        Can’t follow this bit.
        
        And what are you talking about. We do know. Nutrition is one component. Basic subsistence another. Medicinal advancements another. ECE anothdr albeit very minor. Parental speech and intetaction another. Flynn does a bloidy list with weightings. Flynn himself says the simple necessity for abstract thinking. Indeed that’s why IQ differentials are so apparent now. As he said, a modern industrial economy forms the material basis for a human architecture suited for abstract thought. It compels it. That evolutionary pressure howver cannot correct impassable genetic barriers.
        
        Yes, I imagine that such hypotheses are bandied around, but we still don’t really know how all those work. Exhausted, I doubt it.
        
        Now that I’ve wrecked your arguments some more could you please concede? Or are you going to give me more progressive scientism Lit 101
        
        Are you familiar with Danth’s Law?
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:09pm
    - cmm
      
      Intelligence does not come neatly packaged because it is not a single simple trait (like hair colour).
      
      We all know intelligence exists even if we cannot fully define it. Look at any group of kids in school: some are clever and get 99% for maths and some fail. Some can perform the abstract reasoning required to write computer programs and some cannot.
      
      Equally we know there are people that are good natural runners and some that are not. Your geneticist cannot find a good running gene. There is no such thing.
      
      There might however be a bunch of specific genes which come together to make a good runner. For example:
      * good lung capacity
      * good fast twitch muscle growth
      * correct bone structure
      * etc.
      
      We do not know what the underlying characteristics are for high intelligence, beyond brain density/size being a partial factor. For example they could be (but we don’t yet know):
      * high brain mass
      * high levels of some chemical that assists neural growth.
      * large blood vessels into the brain.
      
      There will not be markers for intelligence, but there might be for those underlying traits.
      
      Genetic exploration is still early. Not finding stuff yet means nothing.
      
      And, as both Molyneux and I have often stated, genetics is only part of it.
      
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      August 30, 2018 11:53am
      - UpandComer
        
        Exactly. It enrages me. Intelligence differences exist at the individual level. Groups are made up of individuals. Groups are capable of intelligence differences at a group level.
        
        Its the most basic syllogism that exists. Remove ‘intelligence’ and just observe the syllogism in respect of difference. What these cunts are actually saying is that no differences can exist. Its just biological communism. I hope they keep it up. Books are going to fucking burn and a lot of people are going to have to go back.
        
        This is a microcosm for society writ large. Instead of advancing we have to deal with these ingrates who just won’t accept truth, like a big retarded boulder squatting in the middle of the lane to get up the hill.
        
        Fuck off Stephie. How can you and imbecile anthropologists (which is the study of cultural marxist guessoligy) assert nearly a centuries worth of differences don’t exist? Just piss off to Liberia. We don’t have time for this.
        
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        August 30, 2018 12:06pm
      - chiz
        
        Actually, a gene that affects muscle competition and aids running is known. Its common among east africans.
        
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        August 30, 2018 12:41pm
      - SGA
        
        Genetic exploration is still early. Not finding stuff yet means nothing.
        
        Well… not finding stuff means not finding stuff. The “yet” bit – who knows. But should you expect people to reject the null hypothesis, before there is genetic evidence to contrary?
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:15pm
      - cmm
        
        chiz: Yup that is just one of the genes impacting one of the traits that is important to long distance running.
        
        There is no “good runner” gene per se. There are different genes for each of the useful traits.
        
        You will also note that the set of traits for good long distance runner (East African dominated) is very different to that for short distance sprinter (West African dominates).
        
        For something a bit more complex than just running (as intelligence is), consider is there a “good chess player gene”? Nope. Yet we know some people are capable of being good chess players and others are not. Being good at chess is not a single trait, but a group of traits. I’m picking it is hard to identify what all those traits (and associated genes) are. There certainly isn’t just one “good chess marker gene” like stephie suggests there should be.
        
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        August 30, 2018 4:58pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      You are a new version of stephieboy @ 11:18 a.m.
      
      Where is the poor punctuation that we have grown to love!?
      I’ll not have it.
      
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      August 30, 2018 12:56pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Odakyu-sen:
        
        If only! It was Stephieboy up to “Show other wise?”. The rest was a copy and paste with a source link at the end.
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:21pm
  - UpandComer
    
    Lol yeah. These are the people who will be euthanising Granny. Who could question the integrity of the medical profession? I would. There is nothing better then when a lawyer can remind a doctor they are degenerate mercenaries and subject to that of which they have no knowledge. Yeah, doctors are all genius superhumans with their powers to dispense strong aspirin and feel up their patients.
    
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    August 30, 2018 1:17pm
- cmm
  
  stephie, we ARE genetically different. All of us are genetically different.
  
  The reason we have different individual characteristics (how tall we are, how big our feet are, the colour of our hair and eyes, the shape of our nose…) is all governed by genes.
  
  If you want to argue against that then please take that up with Gregor Mendel and everyone who has accepted that for the last 150 years.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel
  
  Now clearly many of those genetics are clustered according to regions and population groupings.
  
  For example Inga and Axel from Sweden looks “Swedish” and Asian eyes look “Asian”. You don’t end up with Inga and Axel having a black skinned baby with Asian eyes.
  
  We certainly know that there is a genetic component to intelligence. Intelligent parents are far more likely to have intelligent children.
  
  It certainly isn’t all race (or the term I prefer- population group) and there is a huge amount of variability within each group for intelligence and how tall people are.
  
  So we certainly know that:
  * different populations have different genetic profiles.
  * intelligence is impacted by genetics.
  
  So what’s the problem?
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:57am
  - holysheet
    
    The problem stooopidboy has is that his ancestors are known goat and camel shaggers. Not far up the evolutionary trail from the animals they like so much.
    Their genes will need a fair bit of diversidy from the despised honkeys he so detests.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:20am
  - stephieboy
    
    cmm, that right and there is no scientific evidence that Africans or Maoris etc are defiecent in them.
    
    As I mentioend identify the marker genes for intelligence ?
    
    Go on?!
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:25am
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      Stephie, Stephie, Stephie,
      Did your Dad never teach you not to lead with your chin?
      Sigh
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:55pm
    - VicParking
      
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/45343152
      Did you miss it last time Stephie??
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:51pm
  - SGA
    
    * different populations have different genetic profiles.
    
    Part of the problem is defining “population”. I’m not a geneticist, so take this with a grain of salt, but as I understand it, there is no “African” genome; there is more genetic variability in Africa than anywhere else. A person from East Africa and another from West Africa may both share more in common genetically with someone from Norway than they do with each other.
    
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    August 30, 2018 11:32am
    - Ed Snack
      
      SGA, I think part of the issue is ignorance, and I mean that in general we are still relatively ignorant of exactly how and what genetic inheritance affects things. (and there has to be a better way of expressing that !).
      
      Basically we know quite a bit about genetics but in quite narrow areas. We are learning fast but it is an extremely complex system. That we don’t know where exactly the specific genes are help determine “intelligence” in no way means that they don’t exist. The difference between (for example) and average IQ of 80 and one of 120 may be as small as a single codon – we don’t know, and that would be probably undetectable in general.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:10pm
      - SGA
        
        Begs the question though, doesn’t it? Until we understand the genetics, should we claim that the average person of one group is genetically less intellectually-able to those of another? Especially since we already have the evidence that factors culture, upbringing, and nutrition(?) seem to play an important role (e.g., the Flynn effect).
        
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        August 30, 2018 1:27pm
    - UpandComer
      
      You don’t have to isolate intelligence genes for intelligence to know their weight and existence. You just have to exhaust environmental factors. My opinion based on an array if evidence is that environmental factorisation for intelligence has been exhausted. Lynn, Haier, Prentice, were all right. I respect Flynn very much but i think at this point he has to concede genetic factorisation is crucial.
      
      Look at the relationship between IQ and sociological phenomena.
      
      The Alt right say that they could end up being the only segment of society with indoor plumbing. They are quite correct. IQ could drop ten points in the US by the end of this century. At that point, indoor plumbing starts to become a potentially unachievable feat.
      
      You also misunderstand the Flynn effect, i think. Flynn seemed to emphasise in lectures increased societal sophistication leading to improved performance in the Ravens sub component of IQ testing, and abstract sub tests on the WAIS.
      
      He talked about nutritional effects with respect to Texas and the deep rural South. But the Flynn effect isn’t nutrition. Its better abstract reasoning. He points out our grandparents weren’t mentally retarded. They were highly i intelligent and vital. They just lived in a world of the concrete.
      
      In my opinion there is now ample evidence to supoort Molyneuxs’ conclusions. Wasting more trillions and lives on wishful thinking won’t solve anything.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:59pm
      - SGA
        
        Its better abstract reasoning. He points out our grandparents weren’t mentally retarded. They were highly i intelligent and vital. They just lived in a world of the concrete.
        
        So, their grandchildren grew up in an environment that developed the sort of reasoning that enabled them to do better on IQ tests. Why is it such a stretch to imagine that children in Haiti don’t grow up in such an environment? Why for them must it be part of their genes?
        
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        August 30, 2018 2:09pm
      - UpandComer
        
        Because as i said there is only a minor difference in IQ for Haitians who grow up in Haiti versus Haitians who grow up with the Somalis in Minneapolis who are slowly turning Minneapolis into Somalia. So it must be genetic. Also don’t draw a distinction between ‘tests’ and outcomes. The tests have been subjected to such vitriol for so lomg they are unassailable now. They arent culturally.biased or presuppositional in any way shape or form. They also.are the most predictive thing there is. Richard Haier can test someone at ten and plot much of their life by 21. It takes extraordinary qualities to differentiate from those predictive qualities.
        
        Environment is relevant but has only a minor weighting and environmental affects essentially disappear by maturation and adulthood.
        
        Don’t get me wrong. Bill Clinton has a high IQ. Id very happily lower him very very slowly into a vat of boiling paint stripper with a Haitian for what he has done to those forsaken people in Haiti. IQ says nothing about character or goodness or human worth or work ethic or virtue within a freedom of choice framework. But it does say sth unfortunately about criminality on average.
        
        But you must accept a high degree of genetic determinism for intelligence, as you probably accept unquestioningly total genetic determinism for immutable homosexuality. The latter is false, im juat showing that the belief is available to progressives if they’re willimg to attempt honesty for a breif interlude.
        
        Ill help you out. Look up Flynn’s tein studies on the children of African American GIs. They show that in an environment of rugged individualism, empiricism, capitalism, and Christianity the gap can be reduced by over half. If you put a black kid with white parents and ‘white’ values. Flynn ascribes a great degree of black IQ failure to Black culture. Which raises interesting questions of its own. How much of culture is genetic? Who are the jews giving the blacks their culture like they give Jay Z and Beyonce their stupid non-lyrics? Does that mean the Stolen generation were the saved generation in Audtralia, given how many kids were saved from rape and premature death? I guess we’ll never know. But im certain people like you will happily engage in empirically based honest discussion of such quandries no?
        
        Shit why are people so.afraid of this?Who cares. Just follow teuth.
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:16pm
      - SGA
        
        Environment is relevant but has only a minor weighting and environmental affects essentially disappear by maturation and adulthood.
        
        So the intergenerational change on IQ tests performance reported by people like Neisser and Flynn is genetic?
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:33pm
      - SGA
        
        you probably accept unquestioningly total genetic determinism for immutable homosexuality
        
        What makes you think that? I wouldn’t rule out some sort of tetragenic explanation. I know of no strong evidence for a genetic underpinning (but that may be that I haven’t come across it in my reading).
        
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        August 30, 2018 4:09pm
      - UpandComer
        
        No my understanding of the Flynn effect is that it is environmental but the drift is from a genetic baseline, so relative discrepancies hold inter-groups.
        
        At least Flynn denies it is genetic. If it was genetic, it would illustrate micro-scale evolution which would wreck evolution as a theory as a whole and support more extremist alt-right genetic determinism positions which he’d find unacceptable. I respect Flynn as a scientist over his competitors on that point. So I hold that the Flynn effect is environmental and materialist rather then genetic.
        
        I mangled my example. I would happily hold the lowering wheel with a Haitian, not lower with Bill Clinton the Haitian.
        
        Thank-you for a stimulating debate. I enjoy it, and it helps me get more fluent in articulation.
        
        I apologise for the polemical tone which is my natural bent and for the typos.
        
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        August 30, 2018 4:56pm
- chiz
  
  The only thing that Scott Hamilton demonstrated in yesterday’s thread is that he completely clueless about biology or evolution.
  
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  August 30, 2018 12:50pm
  - stephieboy
    
    chiz and you ?
    
    The Real Problem with Charles Murray and “The Bell Curve”
    
    The 1994 book, now seeing an unfortunate resurgence, investigates racial differences in IQ—without being honest about the authors’ motives
    
    He’s back. Recent college protests have propelled Charles Murray into the news cycle again, and his resurging book sales show the publicity’s not all bad. Attempts to fully discredit his most famous book, 1994’s “The Bell Curve,” have failed for more than two decades now. This is because they repeatedly miss the strongest point of attack: an indisputable—albeit encoded—endorsement of prejudice.
    
    “The Bell Curve” (co-authored with Richard Herrnstein) prevails as the flagship modern work reporting on racial differences in IQ score. Black people in the U.S. score lower on average than white people (this isn’t the book’s primary focus, but it’s the centerpiece and main draw of attention). As much as progressives don’t want to hear such a thing, this book puts it plainly: It’s in the data. With the book’s standing intact, armchair sociologists at large may defend certain stereotypes by simply pointing its way. As for attempts to take the book down, most critics go after its reasoning or its sources (or the authors’ associations with the more notorious sources). But those points should actually take a secondary position within a thorough rebuke. Let me clear my throat.
    
    The Bell Curve” endorses prejudice by virtue of what it does not say. Nowhere does the book address why it investigates racial differences in IQ. By never spelling out a reason for reporting on these differences in the first place, the authors transmit an unspoken yet unequivocal conclusion: Race is a helpful indicator as to whether a person is likely to hold certain capabilities. Even if we assume the presented data trends are sound, the book leaves the reader on his or her own to deduce how to best put these insights to use. The net effect is to tacitly condone the prejudgment of individuals based on race…”
    
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/the-real-problem-with-charles-murray-and-the-bell-curve/
    
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    August 30, 2018 1:04pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Scientific American is being both racist and ignorant and should be ignored. If Murray’s intent is to condone prejudgement based on race, why would he want to place “whites” second ?
      
      IOt is quite clear that SA had a conclusion and a dishonorable one at that, and made up their argument to fit that conclusion. Dishonest and a very fundamental level, and anti-scientific.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:13pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Every day you hammer home your stupidity. Did you even read what you just posted? It is explicitly a thought-police political critique worried about motives, ie nothing to do with the science, Scientific American should be ashamed of themselves.
      
      Facts don’t care about your feelings.
      
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      August 30, 2018 1:18pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      The Real Problem with Charles Murray and “The Bell Curve” …
      
      … is that Murray gazes upon the fruit of the Tree of Forbidden Knowledge.
      
      For daring to conduct research outside the boundaries of political correctness, he must be pilloried.
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:52pm
    - VicParking
      
      Read this:
      https://theoutline.com/post/4024/andrew-sullivan-sam-harris-jordan-peterson-the-bell-curve?zd=1&zi=gwif3bqe
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:53pm
DJ Ward

While sexual bigotry is obvious in regard to services and treatment of prisoners, this case is pretty blatant. This is a very short list for the ignorant of other examples. Females get more services, more time out of cells, have children stay in prison with them, psychologists are all female, rarely refused parole.

If a male staffer had a relationship with a female prisoner, they would be sacked on the spot.

The male prisoner gets punished. Always the males fault apparently. Those female prisoners are just helpless, came in contact with a horrible man that led them astray princesses. Males who do exactly the same thing deserve twice the sentence as well.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/104537994/corrections-report-reveals-relationship-between-rimutaka-prison-staffer-murderer-inmate-and-prison-manager
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August 30, 2018 10:09am
DigNap15

Todays Maori Vocab
“Dangerous”
Not in my Maori dictionary!
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August 30, 2018 10:11am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Look under maori; no macron or whatever squiggly line has been added to give the word some faux credibility.
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:16am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Come on!
  
  Every language must surely have a word for “dangerous”!
  
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  August 30, 2018 12:58pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  “Meka Whaitiri”
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:17pm
graham

Stuff continuing to push “Let’s all learn Maori”.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/106676199/lets-not-let-te-reo-fall-into-extinction

In trying to justify the need to learn to speak Maori, the author laments that people reading her weekly column have commented that te reo Maori doesn’t have a use. But, she says, “learning te reo is fast proving to be one of the most useful things I’ve ever done for myself.”

Interesting. So tell us, why is learning to speak Maori so useful?

Well, the author states that since starting her studies, I’ve been invited to speak at a school, pulled into new projects at work and asked to advise on how to connect more non-Maori with te reo. And she’s also started this column. She proudly points out that “each of these opportunities involve the use of te reo.”

I’m going to assume that she was invited to speak at a school about learning Maori, and the projects at work involve writing about Maori or similar. So, learning to speak Maori is useful for writing and speaking about … learning to speak Maori. And trying to encourage other people to learn to speak Maori.

If people want to learn Maori, or French, German, Latin, whatever, that’s fine. I have no problem with that. But I’m sorry, I really don’t want it being pushed onto me. And to those people who say “You’re not being forced to learn it”, that’s true – but there is a definite movement to make people who don’t want to drink the Kool-Aid feel guilty. “It’s YOUR fault if the Maori language dies!” And from the article, “Te reo revitalisation advocate Stacey Morrison says it’s up to this generation to define the use the language has in New Zealand today.”

Oh, and one other point from the article:

But it’s my belief that most New Zealanders want to hear te reo spoken more.

Really? You really think so?

I think if you take a poll you might be surprised …
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August 30, 2018 10:21am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I think the number allocated to the stone age language last year was $35,000,000.00
  
  How many teachers would that pay for, how many metres of the vanity train set project?
  
  I am opting out and want a refund of my contribution towards this lunacy.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/81429047/small-number-of-taxpayers-bear-the-brunt-of-new-zealand-tax-bill
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:30am
  - Piniwi
    
    Not even close PG as it is now reaching $0.5 billion for native gibberish and POC love fests. It will never be enough and now we see them clutching at colonialism for all their own under achievement. The fact remains after over more than 2 decades of pandering they have failed to make any gains apart from baby making as an industry. Then after so much deferred responsibility wonder why they are still struggling to get ahead.
    Now we are having to struggle against the tide of the COL with the complaint Media party trying to push their jingle branded gibberish harder and at greater cost than ever before. What a waste of tax dollars that if used more wisely could provide so many more solutions to the problems POC keep complaining about. The most amusing element is how the elite who gain most from their tribal ranking do absolutely nothing for their own people the claim to care so much about.
    
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    August 30, 2018 4:19pm
- Longknives
  
  The Author seems to be suggesting that if we all learn ‘Te Reo’ we can all get paid Teaching it?
  And therein lies it’s usefulness??
  
  Surely the same argument would apply for compulsory Klingon then? or maybe Dothraki??
  
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  August 30, 2018 10:59am
  - DigNap15
    
    Yes that is how the gravy train works!
    
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    August 30, 2018 1:07pm
  - VicParking
    
    maj. po
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:56pm
- graham
  
  Oh dear, most of the comments on Stuff seem to agree with me.
  
  So next week’s column will probably be about how “we’re all SO-O-O racist!”
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:58am
- rightoverlabour
  
  No, the less I see it the better. I hate the way ministerial documents written in English are tainted throughout with this stone age relic, which often makes reading difficult as the flow of the sentences are broken up with these interjections of meaningless bullshit. Of course, the Maori versions don’t have any English interspersed in them, but who the fuck even reads those? In Good old South Africa, there were documents written in English, Afrikaans, Zulu, etc, but they didn’t willy nilly interject words from one language into another… Fucking Racist Morons.
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:15pm
Jack5

For the nostalgic …

Someone mentioned Windows 95 in a post in the last week or so.

Now you can get, free, a Windows 95 that can run from within your Windows 10, Linux, or MacOS.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/did-you-love-windows-95-its-now-a-free-app-for-macos-windows-linux/?ftag=TRE7ce1dc9&bhid=22329532938880423690486734870500
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August 30, 2018 11:17am
Fletch

Letter number 250 from The Letters of J.R.R Tolkien. This one written to his son Michael, discussing Michael’s “sagging faith” and reasons to stay in the Church despite scandal.

You speak of ‘sagging faith’, however, that is quite another matter. In the last resort faith is an act of will, inspired by love. Our love may be chilled and our will eroded by the spectacle of the shortcomings, folly, and even sins of the Church and its ministers, but I do not think that one who has once had faith goes back over the line for these reasons (least of all anyone with any historical knowledge).

‘Scandal’ at most is an occasion of temptation – as indecency is to lust, which it does not make but arouses. It is convenient because it tends to turn our eyes away from ourselves and our own faults to find a scapegoat. But the act of will of faith is not a single moment of final decision: it is a permanent indefinitely repeated act > state which must go on – so we pray for ‘final perseverance’. The temptation to ‘unbelief’ (which really means rejection of Our Lord and His claims) is always there within us. Part of us longs to find an excuse for it outside us. The stronger the inner temptation the more readily and severely shall we be ‘scandalized’ by others. I think I am as sensitive as you (or any other Christian) to the scandals, both of clergy and laity. I have suffered grievously in my life from stupid, tired, dimmed, and even bad priests; but I now know enough about myself to be aware that I should not leave the church (which for me would mean leaving the allegiance of Our Lord) for any such reasons: I should leave because I did not believe, and should not believe anymore, even if I had never met anyone in orders who was not both wise and saintly. I should deny the Blessed Sacrament, that is: call our Lord a fraud to His face.

If He is a fraud and the Gospels fraudulent – that is: garbled accounts of a demented megalomaniac (which is the only alternative), then of course the spectacle exhibited by the Church (in the sense of clergy) in history and today is simply evidence of a gigantic fraud. If not, however, then this spectacle is alas! only what was to be expected: it began before the first Easter, and it does not affect faith at all – except that we may and should be deeply grieved. But we should grieve on our Lord’s behalf and for Him, associating ourselves with the scandalized heirs not with the saints, not crying out that we cannot ‘take’ Judas Iscariot, or even the absurd & cowardly Simon Peter, or the silly women like James’ mother, trying to push her sons.

It takes a fantastic will to unbelief to suppose that Jesus never really ‘happened’, and more to suppose that he did not say the things recorded all of him – so incapable of being ‘invented’ by anyone in the world at that time: such as ‘before Abraham came to be I am’ (John viii). ‘He that hath seen me hath seen the Father’ (John ix); or the promulgation of the Blessed Sacrament in John v: ‘He that he eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life.’ We must therefore either believe in Him and in what he said and take the consequences; or reject him and take the consequences. I find it for myself difficult to believe that anyone who has ever been to Communion, even once, with at least a right intention, can ever again reject Him without grave blame. (However, He alone knows each unique soul and its circumstances.)
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August 30, 2018 11:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think the letters I received from my father telling me who he had met down at Castlecliff Club and what his Cat had eaten were more riveting than Tolkein’s epistle to his son.
  
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  August 30, 2018 12:10pm
  - VicParking
    
    So it was your dad’s cat that ate all the fan tails in the reserve.
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:57pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The cat didn’t go boozing with him.
      (Assuming you mean Lundon Park… which was an old quarry site when I lived in C/C)
      
      .. but as the old man was the dunny cleaner at Imlay Freezing Works (after he had retired from the Railways), his last cat dined on nice off-cuts.
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:45pm
- rangitoto
  
  “(which is the only alternative)”
  
  So logic wasn’t Prof Tolkein’s specialty.
  
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  August 30, 2018 12:56pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    He must have been affected (infected) by the famous (famously dodgy) trilemma posed by his firedn C S Lewsi: “Lord, liar or lunatic”.
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:18pm
Keeping Stock

Oh dear; Shane Jones is unhappy with the appointment of Christopher Luxon to head the PM’s business advisory group.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018660331/prime-minister-s-business-advisory-chief-a-celebrity-jones

So much for a united, cohesive coalition government. Best I go out and stock up on popcorn today…
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August 30, 2018 11:24am
Fletch

When your boss asks for proof you’re in hospital 😆

https://pics.me.me/when-your-boss-asks-for-proof-youre-in-hospital-34791072.png
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August 30, 2018 12:04pm
MrTips

OK, so I’m just hanging out at LAX waiting for the tin to haul and this moribund monstrosity waddles into view. Out of the kahzi he appears all nicely frocked up but with a roll of 2-ply hanging out the back door.

Mr 2-ply proceeds to calmly crop dust the gate area before planting Lord knows what on a seat near the airline staff. Eventually he notices his trailer flag and proceeds to calmly unravel at least half a roll out of his enormous girth, much to raised eyebrows and chortles from far and wide. 2-ply Sumo man then casually puts it in his bag and boards his flight to shitsville.

My God this country is great.
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August 30, 2018 12:22pm
- stigie
  
  “I’m just hanging out at LAX”
  
  Anybody else there that we might know..?
  
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  August 30, 2018 12:55pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Stigie:
    
    Do you suppose that Mr Tips sent us a coded message with his “2-ply” reference? 🙂
    
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    August 30, 2018 1:25pm
DigNap15

Yes the latest article on Stuff pushing Maori down our throat is going down like a lead balloon in the comments section. About 50 to 1 against!

Maori is such a special language that it has its own name Te Reo!
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August 30, 2018 1:06pm
- VicParking
  
  Its mostly English with a “A” added to the end of each word and “Bro” added at the end of each sentence
  
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  August 30, 2018 3:00pm
Longknives

So it Begins…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106691019/captain-hamilton-statue-vandalised-in-hamiltons-main-square

Now watch every Statue of ‘Old White Men’ get attacked by the Left!
Will Kiwis fight back against this bullshit??..
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August 30, 2018 1:22pm
- Komata
  
  Longknives: Kiwi’s being Kiwi’s, probably not, it will merely serve to confirm popular opinion about Maori mentality, and their apparent inability to progress forwards into the Twenty-first Century – and their rapid inclination towards violence if they don’t get their way…
  
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  August 30, 2018 3:52pm
Swifty

I reserve a special derision for those caught tampering with our food supply, especially given that is nearly always done purely to line pockets.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12116217

If guilty, I hope the dirty little b’stard spends a loooong time in the Big House – but I’m picking he won’t.

If a recent arrival, I would expect him to be thrown out of the country in disgrace, after having done his lag – but I’m picking he won’t.
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August 30, 2018 1:26pm
rangitoto

Taxinda needs some more fairy dust:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dlzz2wZUwAAcw2q.jpg:large
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August 30, 2018 1:30pm
- Longknives
  
  ‘I’m fustrated and refuse to accept that gwaph’…
  ‘The people love me!!’
  
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  August 30, 2018 1:34pm
  - stigie
    
    The children love me that’s all that matters !~
    
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    August 30, 2018 1:42pm
  - VicParking
    
    Not worth the Graph paper its written on…. it takes more than a year to turn around a Major earthquake, a financial Crisis and Helen Clarks shit stains followed by nine years of low inflation.
    
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    August 30, 2018 3:05pm
- Nostradamus
  
  “My Business Advisory Council tells me that business is doing absolutely very well!”
  
  In a major speech to business leaders in Auckland on Tuesday morning, Ardern announced the formation of a Business Advisory Council.
  
  Its chairman will be Air New Zealand CEO Christopher Luxon. Its membership is yet to be determined; Ardern envisaging it having 10 to 15 members.
  
  Ardern said the Council would provide “high-level free and frank advice to the Prime Minister on key economic issues”. It would “create a vehicle to harness expertise from the private sector to inform the development of the Government’s economic policies”.
  
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  August 30, 2018 1:49pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Um, are business and economics the same thing?
    Asking for a friend.
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:14pm
  - stigie
    
    “It would “create a vehicle to harness expertise from the private sector”
    
    Fucking brilliant, if the private sector said you should ban the ban on oil and gas, the minister for cheese rolls and fine dining would tell you to get fucked.
    They have got their policies made up on the hoof so we might get a reduction in emissions of o.ooo1% by 2050 and nothing will sway the rabble !~
    
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    August 30, 2018 3:13pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Stigie:
      
      … the minister for cheese rolls and fine dining …
      
      The Minister for Pies is in charge of energy and resources. Who’s the minister for cheese rolls and fine dining, and what’s she in charge of? Hopefully nothing important like the economy!
      
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      August 30, 2018 3:36pm
      - stigie
        
        I believe she had a name change to Minister for Porky Pies Nostra..?
        
        3 0
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        August 30, 2018 3:58pm
Manolo

Will Trudeau join the party?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/29/trump-says-he-is-optimistic-canada-will-join-trade-deal.html

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he is optimistic Canada will join the new trade deal the U.S. forged with Mexico that is intended to replace the North American Free Trade Agreement.
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August 30, 2018 1:31pm
- Ross12
  
  I think the US would be better with 2 separate deals. Gives more flexibility in the future. The 2 at the start could possibly be very similar but keep them separate.
  Either way Trudeau comes out looking weak.
  
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  August 30, 2018 2:56pm
Keeping Stock

Business confidence is down even further:

Business confidence continues to slide, with more companies planning to cut back on investment in the coming year.

The latest ANZ business outlook survey for August showed headline business confidence – a which has become a highly contentious measure – dropped a further 5 points, with a net 50 per cent now expecting conditions to deteriorate.

Own activity – a measure of what business figures expect to see from their own companies – was flat. The measure tends to be a better indication of economic growth.

But at a net 4 per cent expecting conditions to improve in the coming year, the measure suggests the economy growing at well below average.

ANZ chief economist Sharon Zollner warned “the threat to near-term activity is real”.

A net 5 per cent of companies said they expected to decrease investment in the coming year according to the survey. ANZ said it was rare for the reading to be negative.

“If this weakness is sustained, it will not bode well for [economic] growth heading into the end of the year.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106695117/anz-warns-the-threat-to-activity-is-real-as-business-confidence-stays-in-the-doldrums

It’s going to take more than flashing neon lights, fireworks, business breakfasts and working groups to turn business confidence around.

Having acknowledged that the plunge in business confidence is real and that the sentiments of business owners are not “fake” (David Parker) or “biased” (Grant Robertson), the government needs to actually DO something; less hui, and more do-ey.
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August 30, 2018 1:49pm
- DigNap15
  
  Yes they have now got themselves into an unenviable position.
  They now admit business confidence surveys are accurate and important.
  But there is no way that they will be able to reverse them!
  More taxes coming
  More bludgers
  Lower dollar
  More borrowing
  Higher wages and costs
  Working groups starting to report!
  Greens pushing their policies
  
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  August 30, 2018 3:22pm
rangitoto

Oh dear:

https://i2.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/jag02w_shopping.jpg?resize=630%2C702&ssl=1

For this sin will JAG be told not to return and will now be airbrushed out ofr the Gweens? I wonder how many turtles died so JAG could go shopping.
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August 30, 2018 1:59pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  Where’s her helmet?
  And is that a recent photo?
  I ask because I wondered how many air miles that melon has done.
  
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  August 30, 2018 2:17pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I see she’s got a watermelon in her front basket.
    How very symbolic.
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:27pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Well the plastic bag is a fake but funny anyway. Good point about the helmet.
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:28pm
    - Longknives
      
      Go Easy- We all know it’s only ‘Old White Men’ who are responsible for the destruction of the environment guys…
      
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      August 30, 2018 4:13pm
Paulus

But for this COLL to do anything requires brains and thought – not available here.
Peters and Jones will see to that – they have the Foreman’s job, and the working class can kiss their arse.
And they have the Money.
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August 30, 2018 2:05pm
big bruv

Would I be treated the same pathetically soft way if I vandalised a Marae?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106691019/captain-hamilton-statue-vandalised-in-hamiltons-main-square
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August 30, 2018 2:07pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  A statue of Captain Hamilton, seriously? A dude who died 170 years ago, recklessly, in a foolish attack on an impregnable position, at Tauranga, on the other side of the ranges from a city with which he had no connection whatsoever. And the Gallagher Group wasted money in 2013 on that?
  
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  August 30, 2018 2:26pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Mike:
    
    Here’s an interesting thought experiment: Suppose one of us were to walk down the main street and ask Hamiltonians if they know the origin of their city’s name. What percentage of people would know the correct answer?
    
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    August 30, 2018 2:32pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Less than 1% surely.
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        The Maori vandal looks very Westernised as he poses proudly beside the European statue he defaced. The vandal is in very Western clothes, especially the hat and the dark glasses.
        
        He is playing with fire. The defacing of colonial whites’ statues in the W(h)anganui region ended when vandalism began to occur to places dear to Maori hearts.
        
        The gutlessness of the Hamilton Mayor is apparent in the report linked to by Big Bruv (and I repeat it below).
        
        Among other things he says:
        
        “”It’s about dwelling together in harmony. If people find this statue provocative, we have to carefully consider where we go from here.”
        
        In other words capitulate – bow to someone using violence rather than democratic measures for change. And not only bow, but apologise.
        
        Full of guts and fighting spirit is Hamilton’s Mayor.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106691019/captain-hamilton-statue-vandalised-in-hamiltons-main-square
        
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        August 30, 2018 3:05pm
    - Jack5
      
      Doesn’t matter who knows the origin of the city name, Hamilton. Most people in NZ, and other countries, don’t know the origin of the majority of place names. People write books explaining them.
      
      Milky, and perhaps Nostradamus, are alluding to another Maorification push. Get rid of a white name. What do the PC mob want to change the name to: Kirikiriroa. FFS! How many macrons are the white Uncle Toms going to squeeze into that?
      
      Next, New Zealand to “Aotearoa”.
      
      Here you can sign a petition against changing the name of Hamilton:
      
      https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/name_change_petition
      
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      August 30, 2018 2:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        What a bunch the Taxpayers’ ‘Union’ are. Are they going to launch a petition every time a city council proposes something that Jordan Williams doesn’t personally value highly?
        
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        August 30, 2018 4:15pm
  - DigNap15
    
    How many statues of famous maori chiefs did the Maoris erect before the Europeans came here?
    
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    August 30, 2018 3:15pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      By statues, do you include carvings on wharenui, etc?
      
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      August 30, 2018 4:10pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Dignap15:
      
      statues of famous maori chiefs
      
      By “famous” do you mean the ones who were eaten?
      
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      August 30, 2018 7:18pm
  - Longknives
    
    Some of us study actual History and respect it for what it was Mikenmild.
    We don’t just make it up on the fly like those on the Left seem to do…
    
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    August 30, 2018 4:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh, do tell me if I’m not writing something that accords with what you imagine to be ‘actual History’. I prefer lower-case history, myself, but maybe your History is much better.
      
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      August 30, 2018 4:12pm
  - Viking2
    
    Their money MM.
    
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    August 30, 2018 7:33pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It seems to square with Gallagher’s rather shaky grasp of NZ history. It would be like folk in Lower Hutt erecting a statue of Sir William Hutt – meaningless.
      
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      August 30, 2018 7:45pm
Captain Mainwaring

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106687143/new-zealand-needs-to-get-rid-of-up-to-a-fifth-of-livestock-methane-emissions-to-stop-more-global-warming

Why do we have to put up with this crap?
If cows are the problem, why not start with India?
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August 30, 2018 2:25pm
- Manolo
  
  Greenies, zealots, and climate mongers have shown an unbreakable determination to bankrupt the country.
  
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  August 30, 2018 2:50pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Never mind all the methane that will be released when they open Pike River….
  
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  August 30, 2018 11:02pm
Jack5

Poor old Argentina: 30 per cent inflation, and calling on IMF for early realease of $US50 billion in aid.

Both NZ and Argentina were once among the world’s wealthiest nations, both rich from agriculture exports.

Let’s hope NZ doesn’t follow Argentina to the financial cleaners.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/30/argentina-imf-50bn-loan-financial-crisis-macri
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August 30, 2018 2:47pm
- DigNap15
  
  If I was the IMF I’d tell to get stuffed.
  Until they adopt more orthodox economic management then they will remain a peronist popularity basket case.
  
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  August 30, 2018 3:13pm
  - Jack5
    
    Wow! Now we hear that Housing New Zealand has borrowed $2.9 billion.
    
    Overseas analysts will lump this on to other Crown debt.
    
    NZ Treasury warned the borrowing would be risky.
    
    Borrow and build! Build and Blow it!
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106704499/billions-borrowed-for-new-state-homes-against-treasury-advice
    
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    August 30, 2018 8:56pm
sooty

Well, what school did the baglady go to today.
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August 30, 2018 2:52pm
JibberJabber

The Circus rolls on,
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12116469
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August 30, 2018 4:20pm
godruelf

Who the fuck is this Meka Whatiri the Minister who has stood down? I probably follow politics more than many but I’ve never heard of her. Obviously a vital part of the COL
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August 30, 2018 4:20pm
- RF
  
  Wet bus ticket time. Not standing down but standing aside.
  
  Nasty piece of work who is a bully. Goes through staff like a dose of salts.
  
  Complaint from a staff member is being investigated so must be serious.
  
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  August 30, 2018 4:33pm
  - ex-golfer
    
    Staff turnover in an MPs office is not unusual.
    The hours can be long, very demanding and the work often sucks.
    Private secretaries are provided by the Ministries that the MP is responsible for – so if they can’t hack the work, then they get recalled to their Ministry and back to their substantive job.
    Parliamentary staff are in a different position and have no such job security – they can be gone on a Ministers whim.
    It happens frequently – and is not often heard of.
    This case must therefore be serious – and probably resulting from an assault of some type.
    If that is found to be the case then then she should be resigning from Parliament.
    
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    August 30, 2018 5:34pm
  - rockape
    
    When the bullying was first apparent the PM should have taken action. Now its escalated to assault heads should role. Mind you Mallard oversees parliamentary services and his record on assault aint good!
    
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    August 30, 2018 5:42pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Same here godruelf.
  I like to think I’m reasonably knowledgeable about what goes on in politics 101 but I have never heard of this person nor even seen their name in print.
  Yet she is a Minister if the crown funded by the taxpayers. Would like to know what are her credentials for such a position.
  
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  August 30, 2018 4:37pm
- stinkypete
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106564261/please-prime-minister-dont-let-a-great-opportunity-pass-you-by?rm=a
  
  LOL this article hasnt aged well
  
  Lifting Whaitiri from outside of Cabinet to the inner circle could also open up a space for up-and-coming women like list MP Kiri Allan. A new MP, she is nevertheless considered a bit of a rising star
  
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  August 30, 2018 5:04pm
  - godruelf
    
    Classic…
    
    4 0
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    August 30, 2018 5:44pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    Mau’s credibility takes another hit.
    She sure knows how to pick winners.
    
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    August 30, 2018 8:55pm
Hugh Pavletich

Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/08/new-zealands-housing-shortage-continues-grow/#comment-3176574 … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/08/links-30-august-2018/#comment-3176578 … and …

… NEW ZEALAND: CHRISTCHURCH CITY RESIDDENTIAL BUILDING CONSENTS CRASH FROM 300 JULY 2017 to JUST 133 JULY 2018 …

… WHEN WILL HOUSING MINISTER TWYFORD (BELATEDLY) ALLOW AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO BE BUILT ? …

Home consents down again in July | Stats NZ

https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/home-consents-down-again-in-july

… Over 2 years ago National and Labour were saying this … together …

Labour, National both tell council Auckland city growth limits should be abolished | Stuff.co.nz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80113578/labour-auckland-city-growth-limits-should-be-abolished?rm=m

… and reminded of their promises again recently …

Govt criticised (by Pavletich) for moving slowly on Auckland growth boundary | Stuff.co.nz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/105295016/govt-criticised-for-moving-slowly-on-auckland-growth-boundary

… Why is Housing Minister Twyford NOT ALLOWING new starter housing at and below $NZ300,000 to be built for desperate and deserving young Kiwis ? …

… Allowing affordable housing to be built is a basic human right Mr Twyford …
.
.
How to get a (NZ)$650,000 KiwiBuild-style house down to an affordable (NZ)$300,000 – Stephen Sellwood of Infrastructure New Zealand – NZ Herald

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12107783

… extract …

… How on earth do we do that?

It’s easier than you might think.

Let’s break down a home into its three core components: the building itself, the infrastructure (including consenting) and the land.

Starting with the building, it currently costs around $2000/sq m to build a simple standalone home in Auckland. Apartments are more, say from $2500-$4000/sq m depending on how complex.

That means a moderate 150sq m standalone home or a not-very-family-friendly 100sq m apartment will max out the $300,000 limit of the bottom quartile.

So build costs have to come down.

KiwiBuild will be a big asset in this regard. The scale at which KiwiBuild is being delivered is already attracting investment in off-site manufacturing, standardisation and much greater building efficiency.

Our target should be $1200sq m, which would bring us more into line with overseas.

This means our 150sq m home will cost $180,000, giving us $120,000 for infrastructure and land.

Looking at land, KiwiBuild is interesting because the Government is targeting much redevelopment on Crown land, which is very difficult to value. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Opinion: Let the builders build – Kevin Atkinson of Generation Homes | Stuff.co.nz

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/property/104213530/opinion-let-the-builders-build

…extract …

… Generation Homes is building 300 to 400 houses a year. We could easily double that within our existing resources if there were infrastructure funding assistance from councils for new affordable housing developments. …

… To get real efficiency and to be able to build affordable houses, building companies need to be building 50 to 100 houses or more in one development.

This productivity problem is forced upon builders and we need creative solutions to address it. … read more via hyperlink above …

Rodney Dickens says section prices are the key to solving the housing affordability problem, not higher density around transport hubs. He warns against force-feeding in areas that won’t deliver the intended outcome | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/92556/rodney-dickens-says-section-prices-are-key-solving-housing-affordability-problem-not
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August 30, 2018 4:24pm
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  (Australia) Dwelling approvals down heavily in July – MacroBusiness Australia
  … behind paywall …
  
  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/08/dwelling-approvals-heavily-july/
  
  By Leith van Onselen
  
  The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) has released dwelling approvals data for the month of July. At the national level, the number of dwelling approvals fell by a seasonally adjusted 5.2% to 18,185. The overall decline in approvals was broad-based with both the unit & apartment segment (+6.6%) and detached house segment (-3.0%) posting falls.
  
  In the year to July 2018, dwelling approvals fell by a seasonally-adjusted 5.6%, with house approvals down 2.8% whereas unit approvals fell by 6.2%: … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  August 30, 2018 4:27pm
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    ANZ warns the threat to activity ‘is real’ as business confidence stays in the doldrums … Hamish Rutherford … Stuff NZ
    
    Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/08/new-zealands-housing-shortage-continues-grow/#comment-3176649 … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2018/08/links-30-august-2018/#comment-3176651 … and …
    
    ANZ warns the threat to activity ‘is real’ as business confidence stays in the doldrums … Hamish Rutherford … Stuff NZ
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106695117/anz-warns-the-threat-to-activity-is-real-as-business-confidence-stays-in-the-doldrums?cid=app-iPad
    
    HAMISH RUTHERFORD
    
    Business confidence continues to slide, with more companies planning to cut back on investment in the coming year.
    
    The latest ANZ business outlook survey for August showed headline business confidence – a which has become a highly contentious measure – dropped a further 5 points, with a net 50 per cent now expecting conditions to deteriorate.
    
    Own activity – a measure of what business figures expect to see from their own companies – was flat. The measure tends to be a better indication of economic growth. … read more via hyperlink above …
    
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    August 30, 2018 5:40pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Hugh:
      
      Only 10 links in 3 comments. You’re not meeting your KPI of 10 links per comment, which means we don’t get the “Dr Who scarf effect” of black text and blue links. Please lift your game!
      
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      August 30, 2018 7:21pm
cmm

ANZ says NZ is tanking. It looks like they won’t be giving the wee tot a piggy bank.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/106695117/anz-warns-the-threat-to-activity-is-real-as-business-confidence-stays-in-the-doldrums
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August 30, 2018 4:49pm
- Manolo
  
  What is the incompetent PM Ardern doing? Zero!
  
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  August 30, 2018 4:54pm
  - cmm
    
    No. If she was doing ZERO there would not be a problem.
    
    It is all the dabbling into oil and gas and all the threats she is making that undermine confidence.
    
    Whats to stop her banning bakeries tomorrow? Fishing industry (sport fishing still allowed to keep the current boyfriend happy) next week? Dairy?
    
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    August 30, 2018 5:02pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      AAHH but capitalism and market forces have failed…don’t ya know.
      If
      Higher growth
      Lower unemployment
      better trade terms
      lower interest rates
      less strikes
      lower taxes
      are failure
      can we please have more of this…failure…PLEASE
      
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      August 30, 2018 5:55pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  It’s that naughty John Key talking down the economy.
  Nothing to worry about folks, the SLG’s business talkfest will fix it all.
  
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  August 30, 2018 8:59pm
Manolo

How many more Africans can Italy take?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6109227/Italy-warns-REFUSE-pay-EU-contributions-amid-migrant-row.html
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August 30, 2018 4:52pm
Manolo

The temptation and incompetence are too big, aren’t they?
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/minister-for-customs-meka-whaitiri-standing-aside-due-to-investigation-into-staffing-matter/
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August 30, 2018 4:59pm
cmm

…and right on cue…

Whenever there’s shit flying in Jacindaland you can count on RNZ and stuff running a ready-to-roll Alpine Fault squirrelbomb!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106661445/alpine-fault-quake-it-will-likely-happen-in-the-lifetime-of-many-new-zealanders
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August 30, 2018 5:07pm
RW Capitalist

A few weeks ago, I wrote about my wifes diabetes podiatry appointments were being cut by the DHB.
This was around the time of the nurses claims.
We learned today, everyone’s appointments have been HALVED.
My wife is in the upper moderate category.
So her’s have been reduced from 6 visits per year to 3.
Serious cases (people who suffer from ulcers etc)Have been reduced from about 8-10 visits per year, down to 4.
So we are thanking the govt. and the nurses union for their greed.
I’m sure they will sleep better than my wife manages, due to her condition.
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August 30, 2018 5:51pm
- stephieboy
  
  RW Capitalist, your alias might suggest that you have piles of cash in the attic trunks .
  
  Insead is the reality poverdy?
  
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  August 30, 2018 8:05pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    WTF is your point?
    Do you oppose universal healthcare?
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:01pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    @stephieboy
    What business of yours is it to know RW Capitalist’s financial state?
    
    Can’t you understand the matter he has raised?
    This Labour Govt is cutting back basic Health cares.
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:02pm
Happychappy

So Winston values racing,gambling and horses over satisfying the NZ public in selling out our TAB and the NZ Racing Board to help his mates control racing in NZ and very likely lead to corrupting our industry here. He is supposed to want rid of capitalism and then lights a fire to to help rebuild it.
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August 30, 2018 5:57pm
Viking2

CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Convicted classified document leaker Chelsea Manning will not be allowed to enter Australia for a speaking tour scheduled to start Sunday, her event organizer said on Thursday.

Think Inc. said it had received on Wednesday a notice of intention from the government to deny Manning entry. The group is calling on her supporters to lobby new Immigration Minister David Coleman to allow her into Australia. While she can appeal, past precedent suggests the decision has already been made.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12116367
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August 30, 2018 7:34pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Two reasons for this:
  1. Australia has the balls to recognize convictions and the good character test
  2. Australia will avoid anything that will put their relationship with the USA at risk
  
  NZ, on the other hand, fails at both 1 and 2 with the current mob in charge.
  
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  August 30, 2018 9:13pm
UpandComer

I apologise for my swearing. I won’t cuss anymore. It’s quite right I get moderated for that. Apologies to the readership. If I comment again, I won’t use cuss words. I take liberties with cussing no one else does. And I apologise for that.
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August 30, 2018 7:44pm
nasska

We’re frequently blessed by know-all religio conservatives who having watched “Reefer Madness” consider themselves qualified to condemn marijuana use as a major cause of mental illness, specifically schizophrenia. Not so according to research published in “Nature Neuroscience”:

…..”In this study, we used a new technique and found that the genes that contribute to developing schizophrenia also make people more likely to use cannabis.”……

…..”This may suggest that people with schizophrenia use cannabis to cope with the symptoms.”….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/106587729/scientists-find-genes-that-could-determine-whether-someone-will-use-cannabis

Science 1 Godnutters 0
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August 30, 2018 7:45pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Same sorts of nutters that think gods made people; when the truth is exactly the opposite.
  
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  August 30, 2018 7:48pm
  - nasska
    
    “Oh senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm or a flea and yet will create Gods by the dozen!”
    
    ― Michel de Montaigne
    
    7 1
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    August 30, 2018 7:55pm
  - stephieboy
    
    “It is not as a child that I believe and confess Jesus Christ. My hosanna is born of a furnace of doubt.”
    
    (Fyodor Dostoyevsky)
    
    1 8
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    August 30, 2018 8:07pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Is that what they taught you at St Albans, Stephieboy? How much do you charge for your reading services, by the way? And is there a surcharge on Sundays?
      
      4 0
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      August 30, 2018 10:06pm
  - Shaun the Sheep
    
    I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree.
    Indeed unless the billboards fall I may not see a tree at all.
    
    – Ogden Nash
    
    2 0
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    August 30, 2018 9:14pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Nasska:
  
  As a religious sceptic, you’d argue that cannabis would help religious people with their delusions?
  
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  August 30, 2018 7:49pm
  - nasska
    
    They are beyond help Nostra.
    
    Marijuana can be a useful treatment for many conditions but gross gullibility isn’t one of them. 🙂
    
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    August 30, 2018 7:52pm
stigie

‘They are beyond help”

Even hemp is bad for you they think ffs !~
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August 30, 2018 8:08pm
- nasska
  
  Have a quick read of this stigie:
  
  https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bn5z7v/did-jesus-perform-his-miracles-with-cannabis-oil
  
  There’s a good chance that those who get their instructions from burning shrubbery have cannabis to thank for the fairy tales in the Bible. 🙂
  
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  August 30, 2018 8:14pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Nasska:
    
    Do you think cannabis would help Scott?
    
    I take a theological view on this and would begin with the first 3 chapters of the Bible, Genesis chapters 1 to 3. We see there that God created the heavens and the earth, over a period of a week created the fish and the animals and mankind according to their kind. We get more detail about the first humans, Adam and Eve, from which every race derives in chapter 2. And then we get why there is death and suffering and pain because of the fall of mankind in chapter 3.
    
    There seems to be a gap between chapters 1 and 3?
    
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    August 30, 2018 9:07pm
    - nasska
      
      I consider that a few tokes would help Scott no end Nostra. In fact should he desire salvation I may be able to put him on to the right people. 🙂
      
      He then may see Genesis in a different light:
      
      GOD: I have made Mankind.
      
      ANGEL : You fucked up a perfectly good monkey is what you did. Look at it. It’s got anxiety.
      
      4 0
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      August 30, 2018 9:17pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        GOD: Hello Scott!
        
        SCOTT: *Gulp*… Hello…
        
        Where’s Morrissey when you need a transcript made to order?!
        
        4 0
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        August 30, 2018 9:38pm
rangitoto

Cooking the books Taxinda and Robbo style (or is that Robber).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106704499/billions-borrowed-for-new-state-homes-against-treasury-advice
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August 30, 2018 8:38pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  The most open and transparent government since … never.
  
  8 0
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  August 30, 2018 9:12pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Shaun the Sheep:
    
    Transparency under Jacinda is about what the people need to know. The only thing that people need to know is that Jacinda and her team are absolutely really hard-working and absolutely really conscientious. Let’s do this!
    
    6 0
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    August 30, 2018 9:51pm
Jack5

Chinese crooks put their racing pigeons on a bullet train to cheat in big-prize pigeon race:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2162012/chinese-pigeon-racers-ruffle-feathers-bullet-train-ruse
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August 30, 2018 11:12pm
Jack5

China is helping Afghanistan create a “mountain brigade” of troops for counter-terrorism in the country’s north, but denies any Chinese troops will on the ground in Afghanistan.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2161745/china-building-training-camp-afghanistan-fight
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August 30, 2018 11:22pm

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